648: Unteachable Moment - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #648 | June 8, 2018 648: Unteachable Moment Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 648 集 | 2018 年 6 月 8 日 648：不可教的时刻 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass So, you may have heard that last week, Starbucks closed down all of their US stores so they could do this big racial bias training program for everybody who worked at Starbucks-- the same training at every store Starbucks owns, 8,000 stores, over 175,000 people-- a very eccentric corporate move that the company embarked on after an incident in Starbucks in Philadelphia in April that you probably heard about.
序言 Ira Glass 那么，你可能听说过，星巴克上周关闭了所有美国门店，这样他们就可以为所有在星巴克工作的人进行大规模的种族偏见培训计划——在星巴克拥有的每家门店、8,000 家门店、超过 175,000 名员工进行同样的培训——这是公司在 4 月份费城星巴克发生事件后采取的一项非常古怪的公司举措，你可能听说过。
Two African-American men were sitting there, calmly waiting for a friend.
两个非裔美国人坐在那里，平静地等待朋友。
The manager called the police, who arrested them as customers asked why.
经理报了警，当顾客询问原因时，警察逮捕了他们。
Well, what did they do?
那么，他们做了什么？
What did they do?
他们做了什么？
Someone tell me what they did.
有人告诉我他们做了什么。
They didn't do anything.
他们什么也没做。
I saw the entire thing.
我看到了整个事情。
Here's what they did.
这就是他们所做的。
They wanted to use the bathroom, but they hadn't bought anything.
他们想上厕所，但什么也没买。
The manager said no. She asked them to leave.
经理说没有。她请他们离开。
When they wouldn't leave, because they were there to meet somebody, the manager called the police.
当他们因为去见某人而不愿离开时，经理报了警。
Two days after this, the company said that what happened was reprehensible, that calling the police was completely inappropriate, that the company stands firmly against racial profiling.
两天后，该公司表示，所发生的事情应受到谴责，报警是完全不合适的，公司坚决反对种族定性。
And then it went further and announced this training, which would shut down the stores for half a day and cost them tens of millions of dollars.
然后又更进一步，宣布了这次培训，让门店停业半天，损失几千万美元。
That is not what companies normally do.
公司通常不会这样做。
Normally, when this kind of thing happens, companies either deny they did anything wrong, or they accept they did something wrong, and then they move on.
通常，当这种事情发生时，公司要么否认自己做错了什么，要么承认自己做错了，然后继续前进。
Like, they move on quickly.
就像，他们快速前进。
Moving on quickly is the key.
快速前进是关键。
But here, Starbucks was taking this incident that was bad press for them from the start and they decided to kind of own it and sit with it and live in it.
但在这里，星巴克从一开始就接受了这起对他们不利的事件，他们决定拥有它并与之共存。
And they more or less declared, we have a problem with racism in this country.
他们或多或少地宣称，我们这个国家存在种族主义问题。
And our answer to Philadelphia is that Starbucks is not only going to try to fix its own racism problem, it's going to try to help fix America's racism problem, too-- which, I have to say, is basically just inviting people from all sides to criticize them.
我们对费城的回答是，星巴克不仅会尝试解决自己的种族主义问题，还将尝试帮助解决美国的种族主义问题——我不得不说，这基本上只是在邀请各方人士批评他们。
And then the thing that they do is the biggest implicit bias training that's happened ever in all time.
然后他们所做的就是有史以来最大的隐性偏见训练。
People argue about the effectiveness of implicit bias training anyway.
无论如何，人们都在争论隐性偏见训练的有效性。
I'm just trying to say, Starbucks made a very unusual choice.
我只是想说，星巴克做出了一个非常不寻常的选择。
Well, Kelefa Sanneh has been examining that choice for us.
好吧，Kelefa Sanneh 一直在为我们研究这个选择。
And he went to attend the training itself, which we're going to get to.
他去参加了我们即将参加的培训。
Our show is the only journalistic outfit that Starbucks allowed to attend one of these trainings, and we did record there.
我们的节目是星巴克允许参加其中一项培训的唯一新闻机构，我们确实在那里进行了录制。
That's coming up.
即将到来。
Kelefa is normally a staff writer for The New Yorker.
凯勒法通常是《纽约客》的特约撰稿人。
Hey, Kelefa.
嘿，凯勒法。
Hey, Ira.
嘿，艾拉。
Ira Glass OK, so the thing that I personally wonder about is, OK, in a purely practical way, if Starbucks wanted their employees to not do racist stuff or racial profile anybody anymore, a training like this seems so, like, squishy.
Ira Glass 好吧，所以我个人想知道的是，好吧，以一种纯粹实用的方式，如果星巴克希望他们的员工不再做种族主义的事情或种族歧视任何人，这样的培训看起来就很软弱。
Mhm, yeah.
嗯，是的。
Ira Glass Who knows if this even works?
Ira Glass 谁知道这是否有效？
Why not do the most old-fashioned thing out there?
为什么不做最老式的事情呢？
If they really care about this, why don't they just fire the manager, tell everybody else, OK, here's a new rule, do stuff like that, you lose your job, and then just call it a day?
如果他们真的关心这个，为什么不直接解雇经理，告诉其他人，好吧，这是一条新规则，做类似的事情，你就会丢掉工作，然后就到此为止吗？
People were calling for them to fire the manager for a while.
人们一度要求他们解雇经理。
They were protests demanding that.
他们是要求这样做的抗议。
And they didn't do it.
但他们没有这么做。
Why do this experimental, weird thing instead?
为什么要做这个实验性的、奇怪的事情呢？
Why not just fire the racists?
为什么不直接解雇种族主义者呢？
So I talked to Howard Schultz.
所以我和霍华德·舒尔茨谈过。
He's the guy who built Starbucks-- basically the Steve Jobs of Starbucks-- about why they didn't do the simple thing.
他是星巴克的创始人——基本上就是星巴克的史蒂夫·乔布斯——他解释了为什么他们不做简单的事情。
Well, I think if you're asking, would it have been easier to fire the manager on the spot, I guess it would have been easier.
好吧，我想如果你问，当场解雇经理会更容易吗？我想这会更容易。
But it's just not the way we view the culture and values of Starbucks.
但这并不是我们看待星巴克文化和价值观的方式。
I felt strongly that this was not a time to blame one individual, that the policy was too much in a gray area.
我强烈地感觉到，现在不是责怪某个人的时候，这项政策太过于处于灰色地带。
And we had not given the proper tools and resources for the manager to make the right decision.
我们没有为经理提供适当的工具和资源来做出正确的决定。
And ultimately, we were responsible, the company and myself.
最终，我们、公司和我自己都负有责任。
And that's the position we've taken.
这就是我们所采取的立场。
And just to be clear, the manager, at this point, is not working for Starbucks, though they will not say whether or not they fired her.
需要明确的是，经理目前并不在星巴克工作，尽管他们不会透露是否解雇了她。
The company said-- and this is a quote-- that it was a mutual decision for her to go.
该公司表示——这是引述——她的离开是双方共同决定。
So when this happens, they don't make a show of firing her and setting new rules.
因此，当这种情况发生时，他们不会表现出解雇她并制定新规则的样子。
No. Instead, the company says it's going to help lead this national conversation about race that we always hear about.
不。相反，该公司表示，它将帮助引导我们经常听到的有关种族的全国性对话。
I talked to Howard Schultz about this plan, this idealistic, optimistic vision of racial healing and progress.
我与霍华德·舒尔茨谈论了这个计划，这个关于种族治愈和进步的理想主义、乐观的愿景。
And actually, he got kind of defensive about it.
事实上，他对此有些防御。
Really?
真的吗？
Kelefa Sanneh Yeah.
凯勒法·萨内赫 是的。
Like, when I asked him what seemed like a pretty obvious question about the Philadelphia thing-- I asked him, how often does this kind of thing happen in your stores?
就像，当我问他关于费城事件的一个看似非常明显的问题时，我问他，这种事情在你的商店里多久发生一次？
And he didn't know.
而他不知道。
He said Starbucks doesn't keep track.
他说星巴克不进行追踪。
If we're going to spend time on this call talking about how often police are called to Starbucks, I think it's not what we should be talking about.
如果我们要花时间在这次电话会议上讨论警察被叫到星巴克的频率，我认为这不是我们应该讨论的内容。
We should be talking about, what kind of country do we want to live in?
我们应该讨论的是，我们想生活在一个什么样的国家？
And what can we do as a company, what can we do as citizens, to enhance the lives of all Americans?
作为一家公司，作为公民，我们可以做些什么来改善所有美国人的生活？
And I think it's a courageous step on our part to talk about a difficult subject.
我认为谈论一个困难的话题对我们来说是勇敢的一步。
Howard Schultz loves these big, dramatic gestures.
霍华德·舒尔茨喜欢这些大而戏剧性的动作。
You might remember in 2008, during the Obama-McCain presidential race, Starbucks buys this ad on Saturday Night Live saying, if you vote, you can come into Starbucks, get a free cup of coffee.
你可能还记得2008年奥巴马和麦凯恩总统竞选期间，星巴克在《周六夜现场》上购买了这则广告，上面写着：如果你投票，你就可以进入星巴克，获得一杯免费咖啡。
Yeah, he has a term for initiatives like these.
是的，他对此类举措有一个术语。
He calls them "brand sparks."
他称之为“品牌火花”。
Brand sparks?
品牌火花？
Kelefa Sanneh Yeah.
凯勒法·萨内赫 是的。
He defines it in one of his books.
他在他的一本书中定义了它。
He says brand sparks are "subtle, surprising, and rare marketing events usually linked to cultural or humanitarian issues and devoid of a self-serving sales pitch."
他表示，品牌火花是“微妙的、令人惊讶的、罕见的营销活动，通常与文化或人道主义问题有关，并且没有自私的推销宣传。”
Oh.
哦。
Kelefa Sanneh That election ad, he said it worked.
Kelefa Sanneh 他说那个选举广告很有效。
He said it generated goodwill for Starbucks.
他说这为星巴克带来了商誉。
He said it gave the brand a halo.
他说这给了这个品牌光环。
But this-- he said that this racism initiative-- he said this was different.
但是这个——他说这个种族主义倡议——他说这是不同的。
But this has nothing to do with 2008.
但这与2008年无关。
So I don't know why you keep going back to the brand spark.
所以我不知道你为什么总是回到品牌火花上。
Well, I-- Kelefa Sanneh Yeah.
嗯，我——Kelefa Sanneh 是的。
When I suggested this to Howard, that this racial bias training thing had something to do with marketing Starbucks, he didn't go for it.
当我向霍华德建议这种种族偏见培训与星巴克营销有关时，他没有同意。
Certainly, our customers are going to notice that our stores are closed.
当然，我们的顾客会注意到我们的商店关门了。
And there's been a fair amount of press about it.
关于此事已经有相当多的媒体报道。
But it's not anything that we are promoting to send a message.
但这并不是我们所提倡的传递信息的东西。
I want to make sure I understand this.
我想确保我理解这一点。
You say this is not a marketing event.
你说这不是营销活动。
And obviously, to some people, anything that a company does kind of looks like marketing.
显然，对于某些人来说，公司所做的任何事情看起来都像是营销。
How is this different from a marketing event?
这与营销活动有何不同？
This is the antithesis of a marketing event.
这是营销活动的对立面。
It's not something that is-- it has nothing to do with trying to sell anything.
这不是——它与试图出售任何东西无关。
Marketing is about creating awareness and selling your product.
营销是为了提高知名度并销售您的产品。
This is not-- we're not trying to sell anything.
这不是——我们不想出售任何东西。
This conversation with Howard Schultz, it happened right before the training.
与霍华德·舒尔茨的这次谈话发生在训练之前。
That's where I was supposed to go after our interview, which was supposed to last, like, half an hour.
那是我面试后应该去的地方，面试应该持续大约半个小时。
What does-- Howard Schultz Are we almost done?
霍华德·舒尔茨 是什么意思 我们快完成了吗？
What's that?
那是什么？
Howard Schultz I think we're almost done.
霍华德·舒尔茨 我想我们已经快完成了。
I think we're at-- we're at 15 minutes, right?
我想我们已经 15 分钟了，对吗？
So, he didn't hang up on me.
所以，他没有挂我电话。
We kept talking.
我们一直在说话。
But once we were done, my producer and I, we get a call from a Starbucks PR rep saying, basically, look, if this is going to be some sort of gotcha piece about how this whole thing is a big marketing event, we might not be interested in participating.
但一旦我们完成了，我和我的制片人就接到星巴克公关代表的电话，基本上说，看，如果这将成为某种关于这整件事如何成为一个大型营销活动的陷阱，我们可能没有兴趣参与。
Well, it's weird, because there's nothing wrong with marketing.
嗯，这很奇怪，因为营销并没有错。
Like, they're doing a thing.
就像，他们正在做一件事。
They want people to know.
他们希望人们知道。
Marketing is what companies do.
营销是公司所做的事情。
Sure.
当然。
They never really stop doing it, right?
他们从来没有真正停止这样做，对吧？
Marketing is sort of just a word for anything that a company does to tell the world about who it is.
营销是一个词，指的是一家公司为向世界展示其身份而所做的任何事情。
OK.
好的。
All right, here's the theory.
好吧，这就是理论。
Is it possible that he is so insistent that there's no marketing in it because, yeah, he knows that anything his company does publicly affects how the public sees his brand.
他是否可能如此坚持认为其中没有营销，因为，是的，他知道他的公司公开做的任何事情都会影响公众如何看待他的品牌。
Like, of course doing anything like this is a kind of marketing.
当然，做这样的事情是一种营销。
But he doesn't want to admit it because actually, underneath it, he actually is trying to do a good thing.
但他不想承认这一点，因为实际上，他的内心深处是想做一件好事。
He's trying to actually address racism.
他正在努力真正解决种族主义问题。
He thinks America is too racist.
他认为美国太种族主义了。
He wants to do something about it.
他想为此做点什么。
And he just feels like, oh, if we start admitting that there's some marketing, or we get some brand halo from this, that's just going to muddy the message.
他只是觉得，哦，如果我们开始承认有一些营销，或者我们从中获得了一些品牌光环，那只会让信息变得混乱。
Yeah, although what's weird is, this isn't the first time Starbucks has tried to do a good thing, right?
是啊，虽然奇怪的是，这并不是星巴克第一次尝试做好事吧？
They've had environmental initiatives.
他们已经采取了环保举措。
They had this voting thing, which he was happy to say the voting thing was good marketing.
他们有这样的投票活动，他很高兴地说投票活动是很好的营销。
So in a sense, this isn't new for Starbucks.
所以从某种意义上说，这对星巴克来说并不新鲜。
But what is new is that this is a racism initiative.
但新鲜的是，这是一项种族主义举措。
And I think he has a sense that racism is so incendiary, so sensitive, that it can't have anything to do with marketing.
我认为他有一种感觉，种族主义是如此煽动性、如此敏感，与营销没有任何关系。
Like, if there's any sense that this has anything to do with marketing Starbucks, people are going to tune it out or maybe worse, right?
就像，如果有人觉得这与星巴克的营销有任何关系，人们就会忽视它，或者可能更糟，对吗？
Yeah, this idea, like, you're taking America's national sin of racism and using that to sell coffee.
是的，这个想法，就像，你正在利用美国的种族主义民族罪孽并用它来销售咖啡。
People might consider that offensive.
人们可能会认为这令人反感。
OK, but if he really is trying to do something good here, then to put this thing together, he worked with-- I read this in the paper, the people who you would turn to if you were serious about doing a big anti-bias training.
好吧，但如果他真的想在这里做一些好事，那么为了把这件事放在一起，他会与——我在报纸上读到这一点，如果你认真想要进行大规模的反偏见培训，你会向这些人求助。
There's, like, Bryan Stevenson--
比如说，布莱恩·史蒂文森——
Yeah, Bryan Stevenson from the Equal Justice Initiative.
是的，来自平等司法倡议的布莱恩·史蒂文森。
Sherrilyn Iffil, I read.
雪琳·伊菲尔，我读到了。
Kelefa Sanneh Yeah, she runs the Legal Defense Fund at the NAACP.
Kelefa Sanneh 是的，她在全国有色人种协进会管理法律辩护基金。
And then, less than a week after this big training, this other thing happens-- Howard Schultz quits his job at Starbucks.
然后，在这次大型培训后不到一周，另一件事发生了——霍华德·舒尔茨辞去了星巴克的工作。
Right.
正确的。
Ira Glass And there's all this speculation.
Ira Glass：还有所有这些猜测。
Is he going run for president?
他要竞选总统吗？
And he doesn't deny whether or not he's going to run for President.
他也不否认他是否会竞选总统。
He's just like, I'm going to do public service.
他就像，我要去做公共服务。
Howard Schultz for president, right?
霍华德·舒尔茨竞选总统，对吗？
Maybe he really does care more about fixing America than selling coffee.
也许他确实更关心修复美国而不是卖咖啡。
OK, well, today on our program, from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
好吧，今天我们的节目来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，节目是《美国生活》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
We have this multinational corporation deciding to do a touchy-feely racial bias training session.
这家跨国公司决定举办一场敏感的种族偏见培训课程。
And can you think of anything harder to try to teach people in four hours, given how complicated and charged the whole subject is?
考虑到整个主题的复杂性和挑战性，你能想到在四个小时内教别人更困难的事情吗？
And on our program today, we have this story and other stories of people trying to teach in situations where learning is not going to be easy at all.
在今天的节目中，我们讲述了这个故事和其他故事，讲述了人们在学习根本不容易的情况下尝试教学的故事。
In one of our stories, we see kids who are trying to learn in one of the least hospitable environments imaginable.
在我们的一个故事中，我们看到孩子们试图在可以想象到的最不友善的环境之一中学习。
We watch what happens.
我们观察会发生什么。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, All the Caffeine in the World Doesn't Make You Woke.
第一幕，世界上所有的咖啡因都不能让你醒来。
So when Starbucks gave us permission to record at their big national training last week, they did put conditions on this-- all kinds of conditions.
因此，当星巴克上周允许我们在他们的大型全国训练中进行录音时，他们确实对此提出了条件——各种各样的条件。
They would not let us record the training at one of their stores.
他们不让我们在他们的一家商店录制培训。
It had to be at their corporate headquarters.
它必须在他们的公司总部。
They would select the participants.
他们将选择参与者。
So this is not going to be typical in a lot of ways.
所以这在很多方面都不会是典型的。
But we will get to see what the training actually is and to see whether it had any kind of impact on the group of people who we figured, given the circumstances, would be a group of employees predisposed to be into this.
但我们将了解培训的实际内容，并了解它是否对我们认为在当前情况下容易参与培训的员工群体产生任何影响。
We figured, if this training didn't do much for them, what kind of chance was it that it was going to be any better out in the stores?
我们想，如果这次培训对他们没有多大作用，那么在商店里有什么机会会更好呢？
And if it did work for them, well then, maybe that would be interesting in some way, also.
如果它确实对他们有用，那么，也许这在某种程度上也会很有趣。
We honestly did not know what to expect.
老实说，我们不知道会发生什么。
But we wanted to understand, OK, here's this big company that says it's trying to do this idealistic thing, take on all racial relations in America.
但我们想明白，好吧，这家大公司说它正在尝试做这种理想主义的事情，解决美国所有的种族关系。
And OK, let's take them at their word and try to understand.
好吧，让我们相信他们的话并尝试理解。
What did it look like when they tried to do that?
当他们尝试这样做时，情况是什么样的？
The employees at this particular training were not big, like, vice presidents, not the people in charge of the company.
这次培训的员工个子都不大，比如副总，不是公司的负责人。
These were mostly mid-level managers from the supply chain, and operations, and human resources parts of the company.
这些人大多是公司供应链、运营和人力资源部门的中层管理人员。
And most of them used to work in the stores as baristas.
他们中的大多数人曾经在商店里担任咖啡师。
Kelefa now explains what he saw at that training.
凯勒法现在解释了他在那次训练中看到的情况。
This was happening in 8,000 stores.
8,000 家商店正在发生这种情况。
And they couldn't hire 8,000 racial bias experts to lead the sessions.
他们也无法聘请 8,000 名种族偏见专家来主持会议。
So the course was designed to be self-directed, with no official leader.
因此，该课程被设计为自我指导，没有官方领导。
I'm going to be a learner with you guys.
我将和你们一起成为一名学习者。
So--
所以——
I was in Seattle in a conference room at Starbucks headquarters, eight upbeat employees sitting around a table.
我当时在西雅图星巴克总部的一间会议室里，八名乐观的员工围坐在一张桌子旁。
Two were black.
两个是黑色的。
Most of the rest were white.
其余大部分都是白人。
And there was one very quiet PR person sitting in the corner.
角落里坐着一位非常安静的公关人员。
Everyone had their Starbucks drinks-- a hot coffee, a nitro cold brew, a cold brew with milk and one pump of toffee nut syrup.
每个人都喝了星巴克饮料——一杯热咖啡、一杯硝基冷萃咖啡、一杯牛奶冷萃咖啡和一泵太妃糖坚果糖浆。
I'm going to kind of help get us started, but then we're all learners and participants together.
我将帮助我们开始，但之后我们都是学习者和参与者。
There was a huge, 68-page booklet printed on broadsheet newsprint in sections, like a Sunday paper--
有一本68页的巨大小册子，分节印在大报纸上，就像周日报纸一样——
So let's just open our books and get started.
那么，让我们打开书本并开始吧。
--and a timeline running along the bottom, telling you how long each task should take.
——底部有一条时间线，告诉您每项任务应该花费多长时间。
It's page eight.
这是第八页。
Kelefa Sanneh Kind of ingenious, really.
Kelefa Sanneh 确实有点巧妙。
Let me just watch you.
让我看着你。
Woman No, that's fine.
女人 不，没关系。
Some pages told the group to watch videos.
有些页面告诉小组观看视频。
Those were preloaded on an iPad.
这些是预装在 iPad 上的。
Some of them asked people to reflect and write things down.
其中一些要求人们反思并写下来。
Everyone got a 40-page workbook.
每个人都有一本40页的练习册。
There was even the racial equivalent of a Surgeon General's warning.
甚至还有相当于外科医生警告的种族警告。
--feel free to do so.
——随意这样做。
Conversations about race can induce a feeling that experts call "racial anxiety." And when we're anxious, we can't always think clearly.
有关种族的对话可能会引发专家称之为“种族焦虑”的感觉。当我们焦虑时，我们就不能总是清晰地思考。
If that happens, you're supposed to pause, share your feelings, and then have a short group conversation about how you felt.
如果发生这种情况，您应该停下来，分享您的感受，然后进行简短的小组对话，谈谈您的感受。
First, let the group-- Kelefa Sanneh So yeah, there were some moments where it felt like I'd stumbled into some sort of beachfront spiritual retreat.
首先，让团队——Kelefa Sanneh 所以，是的，有一些时刻，我感觉自己无意中进入了某种海滨精神静修所。
And then, as a group, have a short conversation--
然后，作为一个小组，进行简短的对话——
Like, here's Common, the rapper and actor, on the iPad, doing the opening meditation.
比如，说唱歌手兼演员 Common 在 iPad 上进行开场冥想。
I am grateful to be with you Starbucks partners today, because this work is close to my heart.
我很高兴今天能和你们星巴克伙伴们在一起，因为这项工作是我的心头好。
I want you to see something in your mind's eye.
我希望你能在你的心灵之眼中看到一些东西。
Close your eyes for a moment.
闭上眼睛一会儿。
Yes, close them.
是的，关闭它们。
I want you to think of a time you felt seen.
我想让你回想一下你感到被看见的时刻。
All of this was inspired by the incident in Philadelphia.
这一切都是受到费城事件的启发。
But the only time the materials mentioned the incident itself was to explain why the training was happening.
但材料中唯一一次提到事件本身是为了解释为什么要进行培训。
Instead, the training zoomed way out, tackling racial bias and discrimination more generally.
相反，培训范围扩大了，更广泛地解决了种族偏见和歧视问题。
The guidebook implied, but didn't quite state, that what happened in Philadelphia was racist.
该指南暗示，但没有明确说明，费城发生的事情是种族主义的。
The first exercise started small-- very small.
第一个练习从小规模开始——非常小。
People were asked to pair up and then list their differences.
人们被要求配对，然后列出他们的差异。
And even here, at this meticulously planned racial awareness workshop, where everyone knows they're there to talk about race, everyone came prepared to talk about race, it turns out, it's still really hard to get people to talk about race.
即使在这里，在这个精心策划的种族意识研讨会上，每个人都知道他们在那里谈论种族，每个人都准备好谈论种族，事实证明，让人们谈论种族仍然非常困难。
No kids.
没有孩子。
I have three kids.
我有三个孩子。
Rodney Kids, no kids.
罗德尼孩子们，没有孩子。
These are two people who sit near each other in the office, but never talked till now-- Whitney, who's white, and Rodney, who's black, though somehow, that fact is not getting a lot of play.
这两个人在办公室里坐在一起，但直到现在才交谈过——惠特尼是白人，罗德尼是黑人，尽管不知何故，这一事实并没有得到太多关注。
Do you have siblings?
你有兄弟姐妹吗？
Rodney Two older brothers.
罗德尼 两个哥哥。
OK.
好的。
I have an older brother and an older sister.
我有一个哥哥和一个姐姐。
Yeah, so we're similar.
是的，所以我们很相似。
Rodney Wait, you're in the middle.
罗德尼 等等，你在中间。
Did you have a close relationship with your parents?
你和父母的关系亲密吗？
The other groups were like this, too-- I'm a man.
其他组也是这样——我是个男人。
I'm a woman.
我是个女人。
I'm a Leo.
我是狮子座。
I'm a Virgo.
我是处女座。
I'm from Arizona.
我来自亚利桑那州。
I'm from Indiana.
我来自印第安纳州。
Rodney and Whitney are the only ones who call out their own races.
罗德尼和惠特尼是唯一宣布自己种族的人。
And as soon as they do, they drop it.
一旦他们这样做了，他们就会放弃它。
Like, you're white.
比如，你是白人。
I'm not.
我不是。
[RODNEY LAUGHING]
[罗德尼笑]
That's true.
确实如此。
That feels kind of like a gimme.
这感觉有点像给我。
It kind of is.
有点像。
Kelefa Sanneh And, like, of course people, especially white people, are hesitant to talk about race, at least at first.
Kelefa Sanneh 当然，人们，尤其是白人，对谈论种族犹豫不决，至少一开始是这样。
It feels rude to sit down with someone and jump into race, as if that's what's on your mind, as if that's how you see them.
与某人坐下来参加比赛感觉很粗鲁，就好像这就是你的想法，好像这就是你对他们的看法。
But there's a training for that, and we're at it.
但我们已经为此进行了培训。
So here's how it worked.
这就是它的工作原理。
It was basically broken into three sections.
它基本上分为三个部分。
This format was created with help from the Perception Institute, a group that does this kind of anti-bias work.
这种格式是在感知研究所的帮助下创建的，感知研究所是一个从事此类反偏见工作的组织。
There are three sections of the training.
培训分为三个部分。
First, acknowledging that we're all different and talking about what it takes to make everyone feel like they belong.
首先，承认我们都是不同的，并讨论如何让每个人都有归属感。
Second, recognizing bias in ourselves.
其次，认识到我们自己的偏见。
Here's how they defined it-- implicit bias, that's the automatic stereotyping we do.
他们是这样定义的——隐性偏见，这就是我们自动形成的刻板印象。
Structural bias, that's the way systems and institutions perpetuate inequality.
结构性偏见是制度和机构使不平等永久化的方式。
Third, Starbucks policies.
第三，星巴克政策。
This was more about the nuts and bolts of actually running a coffee shop.
这更多的是关于实际经营一家咖啡店的具体细节。
In response to Philadelphia, the company made some changes, like the bathroom policy.
为了回应费城的情况，该公司做出了一些改变，比如卫生间政策。
Now, everyone can use the bathroom at Starbucks.
现在，每个人都可以使用星巴克的卫生间。
You don't have to buy anything.
你不必买任何东西。
Parts of the training felt generic, like a run-of-the-mill corporate diversity seminar.
部分培训感觉很普通，就像一场普通的企业多元化研讨会。
And some parts were super specific to Starbucks, tackling forms of bias that no one outside Starbucks has ever considered.
有些部分是专门针对星巴克的，解决了星巴克以外的人从未考虑过的偏见。
Here's a scenario from one of the videos.
这是其中一个视频中的场景。
But we always knew that in our store, about 3:10 PM, we would get a huge rush of high school students right when school would let out.
但我们一直都知道，下午 3:10 左右，学校放学时，我们店里就会迎来大批高中生。
And then we always had the one person on the floor that kind of turned and looked, and was like, oh, great, here it comes, frappuccino happy hour.
然后我们总是有一个人在地板上转身看，然后说，哦，太棒了，来了，星冰乐欢乐时光。
And so as these kids were in the store, yeah, they're a little bit rambunctious.
所以当这些孩子在商店里时，是的，他们有点吵闹。
But you start taking their orders.
但你开始接受他们的命令。
You come to realize that it's like you made a huge assumption.
你开始意识到你好像做了一个巨大的假设。
Not every drink's a frappuccino.
并非所有饮料都是星冰乐。
Somebody is ordering a hot chocolate.
有人点了一杯热巧克力。
Somebody is getting a caramel macchiato.
有人要喝焦糖玛奇朵。
Somebody likes passion tea with, like, 10 pumps classic.
有人喜欢激情茶，例如 10 泵经典茶。
Like, there's just--
就像，只是——
I guess that's an example of beverage bias, or maybe frappuccino shaming.
我想这是饮料偏见的一个例子，或者可能是星冰乐羞辱的一个例子。
There were also videos about baristas assuming patrons were homeless.
还有一些关于咖啡师假设顾客无家可归的视频。
One was about gender identity.
其中之一是关于性别认同。
One was about a barista who suspected that a group of black kids was plotting to steal the tip jar.
其中一个是关于一名咖啡师怀疑一群黑人孩子密谋偷小费罐的故事。
One was about a guy with an accent so thick that the barista couldn't spell his name on his cup.
其中一个是关于一个口音很重的人，咖啡师无法在他的杯子上拼写出他的名字。
--about it, and said, I'm just going to call you Bob.
——关于这件事，然后说，我就叫你鲍勃吧。
And I wrote Bob on the cup.
我在杯子上写下了鲍勃。
He had a really thick accent.
他的口音真的很重。
But other parts were surprisingly ambitious and more provocative, like a video by Stanley Nelson, the documentary filmmaker--
但其他部分却出人意料地雄心勃勃，更具挑衅性，比如纪录片制片人斯坦利·尼尔森的视频——
--1960s-- Kelefa Sanneh --which argued that African-Americans have been systematically excluded from public spaces.
--20 世纪 60 年代 -- Kelefa Sanneh -- 认为非洲裔美国人已被系统性地排除在公共场所之外。
His film included violent footage from the Civil Rights era.
他的电影包含民权时代的暴力镜头。
[GROUP SINGING ON FILM] Woman Changing the law doesn't always change reality.
[电影中的集体演唱] 女人 改变法律并不总是能改变现实。
And it also included footage of a police officer choking a young black man in a prom tux.
它还包括一名警察掐死一名身穿舞会礼服的年轻黑人男子的镜头。
That's from just last month.
那是上个月的事了。
It happened outside a Waffle House in North Carolina.
这件事发生在北卡罗来纳州的一家华夫饼屋外。
Yeah!
是的！
Woman We just need to recognize that black people are navigating the public space differently than white people--
女人 我们只需要认识到黑人在公共空间中的活动方式与白人不同——
Everyone in the room-- Woman --that women are navigating--
房间里的每个人——女人——女人正在导航——
--the public space differently than men.
——公共空间与男性不同。
A couple of people even had tears in their eyes.
甚至有几个人眼里都含着泪水。
And despite the uneasiness at first, there actually was some blunt talk about race in the group discussions, mainly because there was one person there who seemed totally comfortable talking about it.
尽管一开始有些不安，但小组讨论中实际上有一些关于种族的直言不讳的谈论，主要是因为那里有一个人似乎完全可以轻松地谈论这个问题。
Her name was Adrienne.
她的名字叫艾德丽安。
She's an engineer working on the global supply chain.
她是一名从事全球供应链工作的工程师。
She's African-American, grew up in Atlanta, moved to Seattle six years ago to work at Starbucks.
她是非裔美国人，在亚特兰大长大，六年前搬到西雅图，在星巴克工作。
And she admitted that for her, Starbucks wasn't always a super comfortable place to be.
她承认，对她来说，星巴克并不总是一个超级舒适的地方。
At one point, everyone broke up into small groups and talked about the company.
一时间，大家分成了小组，谈论着公司的事情。
And she remembered coming into work in the summer of 2016, after Alton Sterling and Philando Castile were shot and killed by the police.
她记得 2016 年夏天，奥尔顿·斯特林 (Alton Sterling) 和菲兰多·卡斯提尔 (Philando Castile) 被警察枪杀后，她开始上班。
That was a big thing for me, because again, you-- I came to work.
这对我来说是一件大事，因为你——我又来工作了。
It was very sad.
非常难过。
And nobody said anything.
没有人说什么。
And I'm just like, did any of-- have you guys been watching the news?
我就想，你们有没有看新闻？
Two black guys just got killed.
两个黑人刚刚被杀。
And it was just like, ugh.
就像，呃。
But then that was around the same time that somebody had shot up the gay club in Orlando.
但大约就在同一时间，有人向奥兰多的同性恋俱乐部开枪。
Yeah, I remember.
是的，我记得。
Adrienne And everybody was talking about it.
艾德丽安 每个人都在谈论它。
And I was just like, how is this different?
我就想，这有什么不同？
But I don't know.
但我不知道。
So that was hard.
所以这很难。
When people are discussing racism, or trying to, there's this thing that happens.
当人们讨论或试图讨论种族主义时，就会发生这样的事情。
The black people in the room become the de facto discussion leaders.
房间里的黑人成为事实上的讨论领袖。
And of course, that's understandable.
当然，这是可以理解的。
White people especially have been taught that when it comes to racism, their most important task is to be good listeners.
白人尤其被教导，当谈到种族主义时，他们最重要的任务是成为好的倾听者。
Some of that happened in this room, too.
其中一些事情也发生在这个房间里。
One of the questions in the book was about what it was like to come to work with natural hair.
书中的一个问题是关于用自然头发上班是什么感觉。
OK, so whoever wrote this question was probably hoping there'd be somebody like Adrienne in the room, somebody who could give an answer like this.
好吧，所以无论谁写了这个问题，都可能希望房间里有像艾德丽安这样的人，可以给出这样的答案。
--I remember, oh god, first time I had braids and came into work, it was just like, to me, what's the big deal?
——我记得，天哪，我第一次扎着辫子去上班时，对我来说，这有什么大不了的？
But then it's like, you have that moment to where I'll tell people who have probably never been this close to somebody with hair braided.
但然后就好像，你有那么一刻，我会告诉那些可能从未与编着辫子的人如此亲密的人。
You guys got 48 hours.
你们还有48小时。
You can touch, ask as many questions as you want.
你可以触摸，问任意数量的问题。
[EMPLOYEES LAUGHING] But you know that they're there.
[员工笑]但你知道他们就在那里。
The questions are there.
问题就在那里。
And it's kind of a distraction.
这有点让人分心。
And I kind of want to just get it over with so we can keep moving.
我有点想结束这一切，这样我们就可以继续前进。
Did you really do that?
你真的这么做了吗？
Adrienne Oh, yeah.
艾德丽安 哦，是的。
We had to have a coffee tasting about my hair, and how long it took, and who did it, and was this person African, and have I done this before, and does it mean anything?
我们必须品尝一下我的头发的咖啡，花了多长时间，是谁做的，这个人是非洲人，我以前做过吗？这意味着什么吗？
And it's just one of those things where it's like, you can choose to get an attitude about it, or you can just say, I'm just going to answer your questions.
这只是其中之一，你可以选择对此采取一种态度，或者你可以只是说，我只是要回答你的问题。
But you have those moments where, like, oh god, do I really want to do this today?
但有时候你会想，天啊，我今天真的想这么做吗？
We do always have that-- did anyone else have that hair thing?
我们总是有这样的东西——还有其他人有那样的头发吗？
Rodney jumps in, the other black employee in the room.
罗德尼跳了进来，他是房间里的另一位黑人员工。
Like, I can see it in slow motion-- like, a white person coming towards my hair.
就像，我可以看到它的慢动作——就像，一个白人朝我的头发走来。
I can actually feel it.
我确实能感觉到。
That's Whitney saying, it's the same with pregnant women.
惠特尼说，孕妇也是如此。
She's the white coworker who was paired with Rodney in the exercise at the beginning.
她是最初在练习中与罗德尼配对的白人同事。
It's the same thing, yeah.
这是同一件事，是的。
Whitney Like, why are you touching me right now--
惠特尼 就像，你为什么现在碰我——
--stranger?
——陌生人？
Rodney --privacy of space that doesn't exist.
罗德尼——不存在的空间隐私。
Actually, I've felt that with pregnant women.
事实上，我对孕妇也有这种感觉。
Objectified, yeah.
客观化，是的。
Rodney Yeah.
罗德尼 是的。
But I had this great moment.
但我度过了这个伟大的时刻。
My--
我的——
There weren't a lot of moments like this, where people chimed in, added to each other's stories.
像这样人们插话、补充彼此故事的时刻并不多。
Generally, everyone listened respectfully but quietly, like when Adrienne asked the group, why do white people care so much about black people's hair?
一般来说，每个人都恭敬而安静地听着，就像艾德丽安问大家为什么白人如此关心黑人的头发一样？
Everyone laughed, but no one gave her an answer.
大家都笑了，却没有人给她答案。
In this group, it seemed like Adrienne was the only person trying to answer questions like that.
在这群人中，艾德丽安似乎是唯一试图回答此类问题的人。
The closest they got to really discussing the Philadelphia incident was near the end.
他们最接近真正讨论费城事件的时候已经接近尾声了。
They were talking not about Philadelphia, but about something else-- something less charged, but kind of similar, that happened in one of the stores.
他们谈论的不是费城，而是其他事情——一些费用较低但有点相似的事情，发生在其中一家商店。
There was a video of a store manager telling a story that sounded kind of like a confession.
有一段视频，一位商店经理讲述了一个听起来有点像忏悔的故事。
One day, in my store, I was on the register, and I was helping customers.
有一天，在我的商店里，我在收银台上，为顾客提供帮助。
And a couple of weeks prior to that, my manager had told me about the return policy, that customers needed a receipt, and it had to be within the last 60 days.
几周前，我的经理告诉我退货政策，客户需要收据，而且必须是最近 60 天内的收据。
This older black man came up to the register with a pound of coffee and he asked to return it.
这位年长的黑人拿着一磅咖啡走到收银台前，要求归还。
And I asked him if he got a receipt, and he said no.
我问他有没有收据，他说没有。
Now, I'd seen other partners in the store accept returns without a receipt in the past.
现在，我看到商店里的其他合作伙伴过去接受没有收据的退货。
And I'd even done that before, as well.
我以前也这么做过。
But for some reason, I just really stuck to the policy and leveraged the policy as the reason why I couldn't give him money back or make an exchange without a receipt.
但出于某种原因，我只是真的坚持该政策并利用该政策作为我无法在没有收据的情况下退钱或进行兑换的原因。
I think what bothers me is that this guy we're talking about with the coffee said he had broken the rules before.
我想让我烦恼的是我们在喝咖啡时谈论的这个人说他以前违反过规则。
For some reason, he didn't do it for an older black man.
出于某种原因，他没有为一个年长的黑人做这件事。
This is Adrienne again.
这又是艾德丽安。
Adrienne That's what bothers me, is that you purposefully was like, there's a black guy that came in here.
艾德丽安：这让我很烦恼，你故意说，有一个黑人进来了。
I'm not going to do it this time.
这次我不打算这么做了。
This is the one time I'm going to let the rules work for me.
这是我第一次让规则为我效力。
That's the type of stuff that I just don't understand.
这就是我不明白的事情。
It's just like, what in the world did this black person do to you to make you just-- I don't know.
就像，这个黑人到底对你做了什么，让你——我不知道。
It's weird when you grow up, and you wonder, like, why do these people hate me so much?
当你长大后，这很奇怪，你会想，为什么这些人这么恨我？
And I literally have done nothing.
而我实际上什么也没做。
The training manual had talked about unconscious bias.
培训手册谈到了无意识的偏见。
But Adrienne thought that what this guy did, it sounded more like conscious bias, an intentionally racist act.
但艾德丽安认为，这家伙的所作所为，听起来更像是有意识的偏见，是一种故意的种族主义行为。
Whitney, the white operations manager-- she wasn't so sure.
惠特尼，白人运营经理——她不太确定。
I think it can be truly unconscious, though.
但我认为它可能是真正无意识的。
And she suggested, very politely, that Adrienne might be wrong about this guy-- that maybe this guy didn't realize in the moment what he was doing.
她非常礼貌地表示，艾德丽安对这个人的看法可能是错误的——也许这个人当时并没有意识到他在做什么。
Sounds to me like, in retrospect, that person was like, yeah, I don't know why I dug my heels in so hard.
回想起来，对我来说，那个人就像是，是的，我不知道为什么我如此坚定。
But I think about it even as a parent, why-- like, sometimes I'll let certain things be fine.
但即使作为父母，我也会思考这一点，为什么——比如，有时我会让某些事情变得很好。
And other times, I like-- like, I'll look back later and go like, why was I so insistent on following the house rule on this one?
而其他时候，我喜欢——比如，我稍后会回顾一下，然后想，为什么我如此坚持遵守这件事的内部规则？
I think, probably, his thought process in the moment wasn't, I'm going to say no because this is a black person.
我想，他此刻的思维过程可能不是，我会说不，因为这是一个黑人。
But in retrospect, was like, why was that the time that I chose-- hm, well, I don't like what that says about me.
但回想起来，我就想，为什么我选择了那个时间——嗯，好吧，我不喜欢这对我的评价。
That feels gross.
感觉很恶心。
Then Rodney joined the conversation, even though he wasn't really sure how he felt.
然后罗德尼加入了谈话，尽管他不太确定自己的感受。
But it is-- for that scenario, I listened to you, and then I listened to you.
但对于那种情况，我听了你的，然后我听了你的。
And it's interesting to hear a black woman's response and a white woman's response, because what I heard from you was that there was intent.
听到黑人女性和白人女性的反应很有趣，因为我从你们那里听到的是有意图的。
And there was knowing decision-- this is a black guy.
我们做出了一个明智的决定——这是一个黑人。
I'm not going to take this.
我不会接受这个。
And you want to give them the benefit of the doubt.
而且你想给他们无罪推论。
And I'm torn.
我很伤心。
We don't know.
我们不知道。
And to be honest, I don't know what we do with that, as a company.
说实话，作为一家公司，我不知道我们会用它做什么。
I mean, like--
我的意思是，就像——
Rodney really believes in Starbucks.
罗德尼真的相信星巴克。
But at this moment, it felt like he was bumping up against the limits of this corporate initiative, like maybe he had finally encountered a problem that wasn't going to be solved by a friendly, non-judgmental listening session.
但此时此刻，他感觉自己正在挑战这项公司计划的极限，就好像他终于遇到了一个友好的、不带偏见的倾听会议无法解决的问题一样。
In practice, this epic social experiment, this attempt to lead a national conversation about race, this grandiose parting shot from Howard Schultz as he left this company that he built, did it help?
在实践中，这项史诗般的社会实验、引导一场关于种族问题的全国性对话的尝试、霍华德·舒尔茨离开自己一手创建的公司时拍摄的宏伟临别镜头，有帮助吗？
It's hard to tell.
很难说。
Starbucks said it wasn't measuring outcomes.
星巴克表示，它不会衡量结果。
But in this one conference room in Seattle, it seemed sincere, maybe even helpful.
但在西雅图的这间会议室里，这句话看起来很真诚，甚至可能很有帮助。
It felt like Starbucks was trying to give people what they say they want after an incident like this-- accept responsibility, change your corporate culture, fight systemic racism all at once.
感觉就像星巴克在发生这样的事件后试图给人们他们所说的想要的东西——承担责任，改变你的企业文化，同时对抗系统性种族主义。
And if it was kind of unwieldy, kind of incoherent, with a couple of moments of insight, what do you expect?
如果它有点笨拙，有点语无伦次，有一些洞察力，你期望什么？
It's a weird assignment.
这是一个奇怪的任务。
We're done?
我们完成了吗？
Whitney This is the last page.
惠特尼 这是最后一页。
Want me to read it?
要我读一下吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Whitney Today was a start.
今天惠特尼是一个开始。
It was not perfect, because we are all human, and we are all learning.
它并不完美，因为我们都是人类，我们都在学习。
The day of the training, May 29, while the group had been impaneled, the national conversation about race had been proceeding in the real world, although not in a way they would have predicted.
5 月 29 日训练当天，当小组被分组时，有关种族的全国性讨论一直在现实世界中进行，尽管方式与他们预料的不同。
While they were watching their videos and filling out their workbooks, Roseanne Barr, unbeknownst to them, was being condemned for a tweet in which she compared an African-American woman to an ape.
当他们观看视频和填写作业本时，罗珊娜·巴尔（Roseanne Barr）在他们不知情的情况下，因一条将非裔美国女性比作猿猴的推文而受到谴责。
So by the time the session in Seattle was finished, Roseanne, not Starbucks, was the biggest story in the country.
因此，当西雅图会议结束时，全国最大的新闻报道是罗珊娜（Roseanne），而不是星巴克。
ABC did what Starbucks didn't do.
ABC 做了星巴克没有做的事情。
They fired Roseanne, they issued a brief statement, and they tried to move on as quickly as possible.
他们解雇了罗珊娜，发表了一份简短的声明，并试图尽快采取行动。
Starbucks, having hoped to harness one viral moment, had found its careful plans overshadowed by a different one.
星巴克本希望利用这一瞬间的病毒式传播，但却发现其精心设计的计划被另一个不同的计划所掩盖。
On Twitter, people joked about how Roseanne could use some of that Starbucks sensitivity training.
在推特上，人们开玩笑说罗珊妮可以利用星巴克的一些敏感性培训。
The company's big, idealistic vision became a punchline after someone else's racial screw-up.
该公司宏大、理想主义的愿景成为了别人种族问题后的笑点。
There are going to be more trainings for Starbucks employees over the next year, but the stores aren't going to shut down for them.
明年，星巴克员工将会接受更多培训，但门店不会因他们而关闭。
Starbucks has gone back to selling coffee.
星巴克又开始卖咖啡了。
Wherever you are, chances are, there's one nearby.
无论您身在何处，附近都有可能。
Go there right now if you want.
如果你愿意的话，现在就去那里吧。
Order a frappuccino.
点一杯星冰乐。
They'll try not to judge you.
他们会尽量不去评判你。
Kelefa Sanneh-- he's a staff writer for The New Yorker.
Kelefa Sanneh——他是《纽约客》的特约撰稿人。
Coming up, the kid who made the other kids in his school wonder if studying is just a waste of time.
即将到来的那个孩子让学校里的其他孩子怀疑学习是否只是浪费时间。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
This American Life-- I'm Ira Glass.
这美国生活——我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, "Unteachable Moment," stories about people who are supposed to learn some stuff that is really hard to learn, and then what happens instead of learning.
今天的节目“不可教的时刻”讲述了人们应该学习一些确实很难学的东西的故事，然后发生了什么而不是学习。
We've arrived at Act Two of our show-- Act Two, Throw the Book at Them.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕——第二幕，把书扔给他们。
In New Orleans, the district attorney prosecutes a ton of kids as adults.
在新奥尔良，地方检察官将大量儿童作为成年人提起诉讼。
Between 2011 and 2015, for instance, he sent approximately 80% of 15- and 16-year-olds into the adult criminal justice system in cases where he had the option of charging them as juveniles.
例如，2011 年至 2015 年间，他将大约 80% 的 15 岁和 16 岁青少年送入成人刑事司法系统，如果他可以选择将他们作为青少年起诉。
That's according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
这是根据南方贫困法律中心的说法。
These kids end up at the Orleans Justice Center, which is the jail that any adult in New Orleans Parish is held while waiting for trial.
这些孩子最终被关进奥尔良司法中心，新奥尔良教区的任何成年人在等待审判时都会被关押在这座监狱里。
And in part because there are so many kids, and in part because some of them are in jail for so long, waiting for their court dates, they decided to open up a high school in the jail back last year in August.
部分原因是孩子太多，部分原因是他们中的一些人在监狱里待了很长时间，等待出庭日期，去年八月，他们决定在监狱里开设一所高中。
It's a real school, actually part of the New Orleans School District.
这是一所真正的学校，实际上是新奥尔良学区的一部分。
You can get a real high school diploma there.
你可以在那里获得真正的高中文凭。
And it looks like nearly any high school, too.
它看起来也几乎和所有高中一样。
So gentlemen, I'm about to hand you these note cards.
先生们，我即将把这些便条卡递给你们。
These are the--
这些是——
In the hallway, there are motivational posters and student essays on the theme of power posted.
走廊里贴满了以权力为主题的励志海报和学生作文。
There's a "Where are they now?" display with former students' pictures and Martin Luther King, Jr.'s mugshot from when he was in jail.
有一个“他们现在在哪里？”展示着以前学生的照片和小马丁·路德·金在监狱时的照片。
But one big difference from regular school?
但与普通学校的一大区别是什么？
The students are all in orange jumpsuits, stamped "INMATE" in all caps.
学生们都穿着橙色连身裤，上面印有全部大写的“INMATE”字样。
There's some information we can take from parallel lines, that we love about parallel lines.
我们可以从平行线中获取一些我们喜欢平行线的信息。
At any given time, there are about 50 students enrolled in the school, which is named the Travis Hill School after a local musician who was incarcerated himself as a teenager.
任何时候，学校都会招收大约 50 名学生，该学校以一位青少年时期被监禁的当地音乐家的名字命名为特拉维斯山学校 (Travis Hill School)。
I should say that some of the students are 18 or over.
我应该说，有些学生已经18岁或以上了。
So technically, they are adults.
所以从技术上来说，他们是成年人。
But Travis Hill is different from schools in juvenile detention facilities because these kids, all of them, are charged as adults.
但特拉维斯山学校与少年拘留设施中的学校不同，因为所有这些孩子都被视为成年人。
They're all facing adult sentences, lots of them really long-- 10, 15, 25, 40 years-- and a lifelong criminal record.
他们都面临着成人刑期，其中很多人的刑期都很长——10年、15年、25年、40年——并且有终生的犯罪记录。
And all this raises a very particular problem for this school.
所有这些都给这所学校带来了一个非常特殊的问题。
Eli Hager, who reports on criminal justice issues at the Marshall Project, has been visiting the school.
马歇尔项目刑事司法问题的报告人伊莱·哈格（Eli Hager）一直在参观这所学校。
Quick warning that we have un-beeped a few words here in the podcast version of the program.
快速警告，我们在该程序的播客版本中取消了一些单词的提示音。
A beeped version is at our website.
我们的网站上有一个嘟嘟声版本。
Here's Eli.
这是伊莱。
The problem is, being a student and being an inmate are opposites.
问题是，作为一名学生和作为一名囚犯是对立的。
Everything about adult jail is telling you to be hopeless, that you have no future and no worth, which makes school feel utterly beside the point.
关于成人监狱的一切都在告诉你绝望，你没有未来，没有价值，这让学校感觉完全无关紧要。
Of course, there are always kids in the back row of any classroom asking the question, when will we ever use this in real life?
当然，教室后排总会有孩子问这个问题，我们什么时候才能在现实生活中使用它？
Especially in places where there truly isn't much opportunity, like at the mostly black schools that the kids at Travis Hill all came from.
尤其是在那些确实没有太多机会的地方，比如特拉维斯山的孩子们都来自黑人为主的学校。
But it's just more vivid here, the students' sense of the senselessness of school-- more total and more justified.
但在这里，学生们对学校毫无意义的感觉更加生动——更全面、更合理。
Take this one kid, Ju'ron.
就拿这个孩子来说吧，Ju'ron。
He's 17 years old, and he's facing 15 to 104 years in prison for allegedly stealing a cell phone from a woman and firing a gun in the air.
他今年 17 岁，因涉嫌偷窃一名妇女的手机并向空中开枪而面临 15 至 104 年的监禁。
He says he didn't do it.
他说他没有这么做。
His mom can't afford bail.
他的妈妈无力支付保释金。
So until his trial, he's stuck in a place that's not safe.
因此，在审判之前，他一直被困在一个不安全的地方。
The death rate at the Orleans Justice Center is four times the national average for jails.
奥尔良司法中心的死亡率是全国监狱平均死亡率的四倍。
Ju'ron calls his mom every day, but in-person visits aren't allowed here.
Ju'ron 每天都会给他妈妈打电话，但这里不允许亲自探望。
Sometimes, he gets locked in his cell for 23 hours a day and gets his feed up, as the guards call it, through a slot.
有时，他每天被锁在牢房里 23 个小时，并通过一个槽口获取饲料（看守们这么说）。
He goes to sleep on a hard slab.
他睡在一块硬板上。
And one day, on his way to art class, he walked past the man charged with killing his father just a few months earlier.
有一天，在去上艺术课的路上，他走过了几个月前被指控杀害父亲的男子。
I was scared.
我很害怕。
He'd killed a man that looked like me.
他杀了一个长得像我的人。
So I was glad he didn't see me.
所以我很高兴他没有看到我。
But I saw him.
但我看到了他。
Now I know to keep an eye out.
现在我知道要留心了。
Do you remember how you were feeling when you were sitting in class after having just seen that person?
你还记得你刚刚看到那个人后坐在课堂上的感受吗？
I was thinking, just thinking.
我在想，只是在想。
I wasn't going nowhere-- in my head, no, no, no. I was like, am I tripping?
我哪儿也不去——在我心里，不，不，不。我当时想，我是不是绊倒了？
I gotta get the fuck out of here.
我他妈得离开这里。
I can't do this no more.
我不能再这样做了。
There's all type of stuff coming with jail, man.
监狱里会发生各种各样的事情，伙计。
I can't do it.
我做不到。
School's not helping me.
学校没有帮助我。
I mean, they're doing their thing.
我的意思是，他们正在做他们的事情。
They're trying to help.
他们正在努力提供帮助。
They're trying hard.
他们正在努力。
You know, I give school their prop, but it's not helping.
你知道，我给学校提供了支持，但这没有帮助。
What, I'm gonna face that by using math?
什么，我要用数学来面对这个问题吗？
Really?
真的吗？
So last summer, the experiment began at Orleans Justice Center.
去年夏天，实验在奥尔良司法中心开始。
Could a violent adult jail contain an aspirational school?
充满暴力的成人监狱能容纳一所理想的学校吗？
Every day, its students, all of whom are black, would grapple with whether they're defined by their classroom or their cell.
每天，该校的所有黑人学生都会纠结自己是由教室还是牢房来定义的。
In the first year of Travis Hill's existence, there were two moments in particular that illustrated how the kids there deal with this bewildering code switch-- inmate to student, student to inmate.
在特拉维斯·希尔入狱的第一年，有两个时刻特别说明了那里的孩子们如何应对这种令人困惑的代码转换——从囚犯到学生，从学生到囚犯。
The first was this story that kept coming up in almost every interview I did.
第一个是这个故事，几乎在我所做的每次采访中都会出现。
It was about this kid, Quincy, also 17 years old-- the kind of legendary kid who everyone at a high school still talks about, even though he's no longer there.
这是关于这个孩子的，昆西，同样 17 岁，是那种高中时代每个人都在谈论的传奇孩子，尽管他已经不在了。
Ju'ron lived on the same tier of the jail with him.
Ju'ron 和他住在同一层监狱。
Everybody knew Quincy, you know?
每个人都认识昆西，你知道吗？
Quincy, he was just that person.
昆西，他就是那个人。
He was just the type of dude, when you come on the tier, he'll try to talk to you, try to jose with you.
他就是那种人，当你进入这个阶层时，他会尝试与你交谈，尝试与你相处。
Jose is slang in Louisiana.
Jose 是路易斯安那州的俚语。
It sort of means joke, like mess around.
有点开玩笑的意思，比如乱搞。
Though Quincy didn't really do much school work himself, he'd stand up in class and imitate motivational speakers from YouTube, telling the other kids to do their work.
虽然昆西自己并没有真正做太多的功课，但他会在课堂上站起来，模仿 YouTube 上的励志演讲者，告诉其他孩子做他们的功课。
That kind of thing left a big impression on the staff.
这样的事情给工作人员留下了深刻的印象。
He was a calm and cool kid.
他是一个冷静而冷静的孩子。
Teacher 2 He was very, very intelligent.
老师2 他非常非常聪明。
Very intelligent.
非常聪明。
Very, very intelligent-- just, sorry, I had to stress that.
非常非常聪明——只是，抱歉，我必须强调这一点。
Well, he just had a charisma about him where he's like, you know?
嗯，他就是有一种个人魅力，你知道吗？
He was a leader of the tier.
他是这一层的领导者。
Teacher 2 If somebody new comes on the unit, somebody wants to go pick on this person or that, Quincy may say, hey, nah, leave that man alone.
老师 2 如果单位里来了新人，有人想找这个人或那个人的毛病，昆西可能会说，嘿，不，别打扰那个人。
That man chilling.
那个男人让人不寒而栗。
Quincy wasn't at the jail anymore by the time I visited, so you're not going to hear from him.
我去的时候昆西已经不在监狱里了，所以你不会再收到他的消息了。
Part of the reason everyone knew him so well was that he'd been waiting behind bars for two years to get a trial.
每个人都如此了解他的部分原因是他在监狱里等待了两年才获得审判。
When he was 15, he was charged as an adult with attempted murder for shooting a gun at state troopers in an unmarked car, along with a group of other teens.
15 岁时，他与一群其他青少年一起在一辆没有标记的汽车中向州警开枪，被指控为成年人谋杀未遂。
Every time he had a court date, he got a ride over to the courthouse in a van.
每次他有法庭约会时，他都会乘坐一辆面包车去法院。
The older kids have to take a school bus, of all vehicles, even though it's only like 500 feet away from the jail.
在所有车辆中，年龄较大的孩子必须乘坐校车，尽管校车距离监狱只有 500 英尺。
He'd wait in the van in shackles to be called into the courtroom, only to have his case continued again.
他戴着脚镣在货车里等待被叫进法庭，结果案件又继续审理。
And then he'd just roll back to school and try to do trigonometry, or whatever.
然后他就回到学校，尝试做三角学，或者其他什么。
Quincy was in a situation with his case that kept getting put off, and put off, and put off, and put off.
昆西的案子一直在拖延、拖延、拖延、拖延。
This is Travis Hill's dean of students, Kenneth Dorsey.
我是特拉维斯·希尔学院的学生主任肯尼思·多尔西。
So there's a lot of-- he wasn't interested in doing school.
所以有很多——他对上学不感兴趣。
He came, he did a little bit, but then he's off doing something else mentally.
他来了，他做了一点，但随后他就在精神上去做其他事情了。
And I got to believe it has to do with the fact of what the case was doing to him.
我开始相信这与案件对他造成的影响有关。
The day that Quincy finally got to stand in front of a judge was a major event for the entire student body.
昆西终于站在法官面前的那一天，对整个学生来说都是一件大事。
There had been so much buildup.
已经有太多的积累了。
And in the group claustrophobia of a school in jail, one student's court date feels like everybody's court date.
在一所监狱学校的集体幽闭恐惧症中，一名学生的出庭日期感觉就像每个人的出庭日期一样。
Ju'ron told me and my producer, Sean Cole, what it was like on the juvenile tier beforehand.
朱隆事先告诉我和我的制片人肖恩·科尔，少年组的情况如何。
Everybody, we all got in a circle.
大家，我们都围成一个圈。
We were praying he got good news, you know?
我们祈祷他能得到好消息，你知道吗？
Yeah, we always do that.
是的，我们总是这样做。
Eli Hager Every time somebody has a big court situation coming up, you do that?
伊莱·哈格（Eli Hager） 每当有人遇到重大法庭案件时，你都会这样做吗？
Yeah, we pray.
是的，我们祈祷。
They pray.
他们祈祷。
I just be standing by and watching.
我只是站在一旁观看。
But at the time, I was praying with them.
但当时我正在和他们一起祈祷。
So he was like, man, I'm going home tomorrow.
所以他说，伙计，我明天就回家了。
It was like, yeah, you going home tomorrow.
就像，是的，你明天就回家了。
We were not trying to jinx it.
我们并不是想给它带来厄运。
Then he came back, threw his food on the table.
然后他回来了，把食物扔到了桌子上。
Quincy had come back from court and just threw his food on the table.
昆西从法庭回来，把他的食物扔到了桌子上。
They were all at lunch.
他们都在吃午饭。
I was like, what happened, bro?
我当时想，发生什么事了，兄弟？
He was like, I got fucking 25 years.
他说，我他妈的已经25年了。
Just like, damn.
就像，该死的。
And everybody just started crying.
每个人都开始哭泣。
25 years for someone charged at 15 years old.
15 岁被指控的人为 25 年。
It was the longest sentence handed down in Travis Hill's short history.
这是特拉维斯·希尔短暂历史上判处的最长刑期。
And what was your first class after that?
那之后你的第一堂课是什么？
And everybody was just sad, you know?
每个人都很伤心，你知道吗？
Nobody wasn't doing no work.
没有人不做任何工作。
Everybody had their head down, just thinking, listening to music about sentencing, you know, just to relate to.
每个人都低着头，只是思考，听着关于量刑的音乐，你知道，只是为了产生共鸣。
Music about sentencing?
关于量刑的音乐？
Ju'ron Music about jail and getting sentenced, people turning their back on you, and all that.
Ju'ron 音乐讲述的是监狱和被判刑、人们背弃你等等。
It's just music about that.
这只是音乐而已。
That's what we like to listen to, because we can relate.
这就是我们喜欢听的，因为我们可以联系起来。
Which songs were you listening to in that class?
那节课你听了哪些歌曲？
We was listening to YFN Lucci, "Turn They Back On Me."
我们正在听 YFN Lucci 的《Turn They Back On Me》。
Yeah, 'cause the teachers here had put on this song by YFN Lucci, "Turn Your Back." And when we heard that, the whole class just broke down in tears with him.
是的，因为这里的老师放了 YFN Lucci 的歌曲“Turn Your Back”。当我们听到这句话时，全班同学都和他一起流下了眼泪。
Like, we just were broke down for that whole class period, just crying.
就像，我们整个课堂都崩溃了，只是哭了。
I was crying like a babe.
我哭得像个婴儿。
And I just felt his pain, like-- yeah, I felt his pain.
我只是感觉到他的痛苦，就像——是的，我感觉到他的痛苦。
Listening to the song-- Eli Hager Ju'ron again.
再次聆听这首歌——Eli Hager Ju'ron。
--just zoning out, not listening to nothing the teacher had to say.
——只是走神，没有听老师说的任何话。
Nobody was listening to her.
没有人在听她说话。
It was just a sad moment for our juvenile tier.
对于我们的青少年来说，这只是一个悲伤的时刻。
Was she trying to teach the class anyway?
无论如何，她是想教课吗？
Yeah, she was trying to teach, you know?
是的，她想教书，你知道吗？
Same shit, trying to get our mind off it.
同样的事情，试图让我们摆脱它。
But how can get your mind off of something like that?
但怎样才能让你不再去想这样的事情呢？
What about fifth period that day?
那天第五节课怎么样？
What did you have next?
接下来你有什么？
Science, same thing.
科学，同样的事情。
Eli Hager Same thing?
伊莱·哈格 同样的事情吗？
You had science, and she was trying to teach also?
你有科学，而她也想教书？
It was like that until he went to DCI that Tuesday.
就这样，直到周二他去了 DCI。
DCI is the Dixon Correctional Institute.
DCI 是迪克森惩教所。
In the days before Quincy got sent off, even though this goes against the whole point of their school, the teachers decided that he was facing too bleak a future to try to get him to study.
在昆西被罚下场的前几天，尽管这违背了他们学校的整体宗旨，但老师们还是认为他面临着太黯淡的未来，无法让他继续学习。
So they just let him listen to music, and sat and had conversations with him, talking about how he'd be as old as they are when he got out.
所以他们只是让他听音乐，然后坐下来和他交谈，谈论当他出来时他会和他们一样老。
It felt like to see that they would give a young person our age 25 years, you think they're really going to give a fuck about us, being the same age?
感觉就像看到他们会给一个年轻人我们的年龄 25 岁，你认为他们真的会关心我们同龄吗？
Then we're black.
那我们就黑了
They don't got no white people on our tier.
他们在我们这一层没有白人。
It just looked like we was out for failure.
看起来我们注定会失败。
Everybody makes mistakes.
每个人都会犯错误。
That's why I was depressed.
这就是我沮丧的原因。
I felt like nobody was safe.
我觉得没有人是安全的。
And you felt like they were basically saying that his life didn't have any worth, because they were just-- he was only 17 years old, and they were giving him 25 years.
你感觉他们基本上是在说他的生命没有任何价值，因为他们只是——他只有 17 岁，而他们却给了他 25 年的时间。
Is that kind of what it felt like?
是这样的感觉吗？
I think so.
我想是的。
Yeah, basically.
是的，基本上。
Eli Hager But you're saying that his life did have a lot of worth.
伊莱·哈格（Eli Hager）：但是你是说他的生命确实有很多价值。
Why does his life and your life have worth?
为什么他的生命和你的生命有价值？
Because we're young.
因为我们还年轻。
We ain't even turned 18 yet.
我们还没有满18岁。
We have still a lot of growing to do.
我们还有很多成长的事情要做。
We got changes we can make, you know?
我们可以做出改变，你知道吗？
Stuff that we can do to change our life, and all that.
我们可以做一些事情来改变我们的生活，等等。
But once you mess up for once, it's going to cost you the rest of your life.
但一旦你搞砸了一次，你就会付出一生的代价。
I ain't saying he got life in jail, but 25 years, that's a lot.
我并不是说他被判终身监禁，但 25 年，这已经很长了。
That's more than a lot.
这还不止很多。
After that, I don't know.
之后，我不知道。
That really killed me.
那真的杀了我。
When Quincy got sent 25 years, that killed my hopes of getting out.
当昆西被判入狱 25 年时，我出狱的希望就破灭了。
A lot of the other kids felt the same way.
许多其他孩子也有同样的感觉。
The math teacher, Ms. Burr, and the other teachers, say that even months later, their students still haven't fully come to terms with Quincy's departure.
数学老师伯尔女士和其他老师表示，即使几个月后，他们的学生仍然没有完全接受昆西的离开。
They still bring him up.
他们仍然抚养他。
Literally, I think on Monday, they asked about him, and brought him up, and talked about him.
从字面上看，我想在周一，他们询问了他的情况，提起了他，并谈论了他。
What they said was, well, what if I got time like Quincy?
他们说的是，如果我有像昆西那样的时间怎么办？
What's the point of this education if I'm getting time like him?
如果我有像他一样的时间，那么这种教育还有什么意义呢？
Then this is a waste of my time.
那么这就是浪费我的时间。
There's no point, because in 25 years-- that's 25 years.
没有意义，因为 25 年——那就是 25 年。
I'm not using this.
我没用这个。
And so then I brought up the way that Quincy left, and how he was like, I know education is important.
然后我提到了昆西离开的方式，以及他的样子，我知道教育很重要。
I want to pursue my education.
我想继续我的学业。
And they were like, wait, really?
他们就像，等等，真的吗？
He said that?
他这么说？
And I was like, yeah, he said that.
我当时想，是的，他就是这么说的。
I was at the jail visiting around the time Quincy and another student were sentenced.
昆西和另一名学生被判刑时，我正在监狱探望。
And I sat in on this one science class where their friends were downright despondent.
我旁听了这堂科学课，他们的朋友们都非常沮丧。
One was walking around the room, groaning and knocking his head against the door.
其中一人在房间里走来走去，呻吟着，用头撞门。
The teacher was trying to teach a lesson about the properties of living organisms.
老师试图讲授有关生物体特性的课程。
A living organism needs light, she said, and energy.
她说，生物体需要光和能量。
A living organism needs to live within a community.
一个活的有机体需要生活在一个社区内。
A living organism responds to stimuli or messages from the environment around it.
活的有机体会对来自周围环境的刺激或信息做出反应。
A living organism has the capacity to grow.
一个活的有机体具有生长的能力。
When Quincy was shipped upstate, it was probably the lowest moment for the kids.
当昆西被运送到北部时，这可能是孩子们最低谷的时刻。
Their most hopeful moment came just a month later.
一个月后，他们最有希望的时刻到来了。
It had to do with another student who nearly everyone at the school talked about and another first at Travis Hill, but of a very different kind.
这与学校里几乎每个人都谈论的另一个学生有关，也是特拉维斯山的另一个第一，但类型非常不同。
It was the first graduation-- a graduation ceremony for one, one student.
这是第一次毕业——为一个、一个学生举办的毕业典礼。
A whole ceremony was held for him.
为他举行了一场盛大的仪式。
The graduate was a kid named Tristion.
毕业生是一个名叫 Tristion 的孩子。
But people don't call him Tristion.
但人们不叫他 Tristion。
OK.
好的。
Tristion You know, jail give you nicknames.
Tristion 你知道，监狱给你起了绰号。
Like, call me Fireman.
就像，叫我消防员。
That's my childhood dream.
那是我儿时的梦想。
Oh.
哦。
Tristion So I think it was in school, you know, we had to sing a song, "Firetrucks are Red," R-E-D.
Tristion 所以我想那是在学校，你知道，我们必须唱一首歌，“Firetrucks are Red”，R-E-D。
And then I look.
然后我看。
I'm liking it.
我很喜欢它。
I'm liking what it's looking like.
我喜欢它的样子。
Then every Halloween, from young to a certain age limit, I dressed as a firefighter.
然后每年万圣节，从年轻到一定年龄限制，我都打扮成消防员。
You were a fireman every single Halloween?
你每个万圣节都是消防员？
Every single Halloween.
每个万圣节。
Eli Hager That's good.
伊莱·哈格 那很好。
You're consistent.
你是一致的。
Tristion has the word "fireman" written in Sharpie on the collar of his orange jumpsuit and down its leg.
Tristion 在他橙色连身裤的领子和裤腿上用记号笔写着“消防员”一词。
In addition to fighting fires, he wants to start a storm evacuation business.
除了救火之外，他还想开展风暴疏散业务。
He grew up in the Lower Ninth Ward.
他在下九区长大。
And like most of the kids at Travis Hill, he's one of the babies of Hurricane Katrina.
和特拉维斯山的大多数孩子一样，他是卡特里娜飓风的婴儿之一。
Like Ju'ron, he fled to Texas until the water went down.
和朱隆一样，他逃到德克萨斯州，直到水位下降。
He says his high school class was going to be the first to graduate from a brand new school building that had just been built.
他说他的高中班级将是第一批从刚刚建成的全新校舍毕业的学生。
But then he came to jail.
但后来他进了监狱。
When Tristion was a juvenile, he coerced underage girls online to send him naked photos.
当特里斯蒂安还是个少年时，他在网上强迫未成年女孩向他发送裸照。
He says he knew it was wrong when he was doing it and that he stopped about a year before he was arrested, at age 18.
他说，当他这样做的时候他就知道这是错误的，并且在被捕前大约一年（18 岁）他就停止了这样做。
Tristion is not at all the typical student at Travis Hill.
Tristion 根本不是特拉维斯山的典型学生。
He came to jail before the school existed and was already studying to get his GED, already motivated.
他在学校成立之前就入狱了，并且已经在学习获得 GED，并且已经充满动力。
But then Travis Hill came along.
但后来特拉维斯·希尔出现了。
Woo!
哇！
It was a big game changer.
这是一个巨大的游戏规则改变者。
We had classes-- like, real periods.
我们上课——就像真正的课一样。
The transitioning, the time up, time to switch and stuff, really gave me that feeling, like I was really in school.
过渡、时间到了、转换时间等等，真的给了我那种感觉，就像我真的在学校一样。
I'm like, man, I think I'm going to love this.
我想，伙计，我想我会喜欢这个。
Tristion said school was like having a huge breakfast waiting for him in the morning, with eggs, and grits, and biscuits, and sausage, and orange juice.
特里斯蒂安说，上学就像早上有一顿丰盛的早餐在等着他，有鸡蛋、粗玉米粉、饼干、香肠和橙汁。
Meanwhile, his actual breakfast the first morning of school was cereal.
与此同时，他开学第一天早上的早餐实际上是麦片粥。
It was cereal the next morning, too, and the next.
第二天早上也是麦片粥，第三天也是。
Jail is dispiriting like that, demotivating.
监狱就是这样令人沮丧、沮丧。
And Tristion was bent on staying motivated.
Tristion 决心保持动力。
So instead of fixating on being in jail, he takes another approach.
因此，他没有一味地坐牢，而是采取了另一种方法。
I try to put that "I'm in a jail facility" to the side.
我试着把“我在监狱里”放在一边。
How do you do that?
你是怎么做到的？
Tristion I do it mentally, of course.
当然，我是在心里做的。
I look, and I just picture myself in a real class setting.
我看着，想象自己身处真实的课堂环境中。
Even though I have to go back to the tier, I don't look at going back to the tier as going home.
尽管我必须回到联赛，但我并不认为回到联赛就是回家。
I look at going back to the tier as, like, you know, just going to this park.
我认为回到这一层就像，你知道，只是去这个公园。
A park-- like a city park?
公园——比如城市公园？
Tristion Yes, like a city park.
Tristion 是的，就像一个城市公园。
You're around a bunch of people you don't really know.
你周围有一群你并不真正认识的人。
You don't know why they're there.
你不知道他们为什么在那里。
But you just know you're surrounded by a bunch of random people.
但你只知道你周围都是一群随机的人。
And another thing I programmed in my head, because I want to go to the military also-- I said, by us having all of the same color on, this is boot camp.
我在脑海中编排了另一件事，因为我也想去军队——我说，通过我们都穿着相同的颜色，这是新兵训练营。
This is training.
这是训练。
This is a training facility.
这是一个培训设施。
It's not a jail facility.
这不是监狱设施。
This is a training facility.
这是一个培训设施。
This is training me to handle being away from family and to be able to better myself.
这是训练我处理远离家人的问题并能够让自己变得更好。
And another way to look at it, if that don't work, I look at it like a hurricane shelter.
另一种看待它的方式，如果这不起作用，我会把它视为飓风避难所。
A hurricane shelter?
飓风避难所？
Tristion A hurricane shelter.
Tristion 飓风避难所。
There's been a bad storm.
发生了一场严重的风暴。
Everybody's been separated from their people.
每个人都与自己的人民分离了。
We're all around, like I said, a bunch of people that you do not know.
正如我所说，我们周围都是一群你不认识的人。
But you have to survive, and they have the-- they provide the food for you.
但你必须生存，而他们有——他们为你提供食物。
They come check on you, make sure you follow the rules.
他们会来检查你，确保你遵守规则。
Sounds what a hurricane shelter is to me.
听起来飓风避难所对我来说就是这样。
This is the way that Tristion deals with going to school in jail-- by pretending he's not in jail.
这就是特里森在监狱里上学的方式——假装自己没有在监狱里。
Some of the other students engage in a similar kind of useful delusion, especially during what one teacher calls the honeymoon phase of jail, when the kids are still telling themselves, and anyone who will listen, that they're getting out tomorrow or next week, against all evidence to the contrary.
其他一些学生也陷入了类似的有用错觉，尤其是在一位老师所说的监狱蜜月阶段，此时孩子们仍在告诉自己和任何愿意倾听的人，他们明天或下周就会出狱，尽管所有证据都表明事实并非如此。
The school does it, too, by having intentionally condensed units and semesters, with award ceremonies at the end of each one, to at least give the students a feeling of accomplishment or completion.
学校也这样做，有意压缩单元和学期，并在每个单元结束时举行颁奖仪式，至少给学生一种成就感或完成感。
Do you ever get-- do you ever get really down?
你有没有真正情绪低落过？
I mean, it seems like you're very positive.
我的意思是，看来你很积极。
Do you ever get real down?
你有没有真正沮丧过？
I kid you not, only for one minute.
我没有骗你，只是一分钟。
I said, man, this ain't no boot camp.
我说，伙计，这不是新兵训练营。
This isn't a hurricane-- this is a real jail.
这不是飓风——这是真正的监狱。
Man.
男人。
But I say, you know what?
但我说，你知道吗？
And I say this to myself all the time-- I'll be talking to myself and I'll be like, jail is not a bad place.
我一直对自己这么说——我会自言自语，我会说，监狱不是一个坏地方。
Jail is a place to get you to get right.
监狱是一个让你改正错误的地方。
Do you ever think, wait, this isn't actually a school, this is a jail?
你有没有想过，等等，这实际上不是学校，而是监狱？
This is always a school.
这始终是一所学校。
The only difference is, you have a deputy just standing there, just watching you.
唯一的区别是，你有一个副手站在那里，只是看着你。
And I'm not used to being watched like that.
而且我不习惯被这样注视。
But like I say, the boot camp-- that's my ranking officer.
但就像我说的，新兵训练营——那是我的高级官员。
He's making it so I do everything right, make it so I don't mess up, make it so I do this right, just in case I have to go into combat.
他做到了，所以我把每件事都做对了，做到了，这样我就不会搞砸了，做到了，所以我把这件事做好了，以防万一我必须参加战斗。
Tristion is obviously a pretty enthusiastic guy in general.
总的来说，Tristion 显然是一个非常热情的人。
But when I asked him about his graduation, he talked for seven minutes straight--
但当我问他毕业的事时，他连续说了七分钟——
Ooh.
哦。
Man, big day.
伙计，大日子。
Eli Hager --not just about the event itself, but the moments leading up to it, acting out every part like he was in a one-man show, from getting ready in the morning--
伊莱·哈格（Eli Hager）——不仅仅是活动本身，还有活动前的那些时刻，从早上的准备开始，他就像在一场独角戏中表演每一个角色——
Lotion, baby powder, brushing my teeth twice, brushing my hair, smelling good.
乳液，婴儿爽身粉，刷了两遍牙，梳了头，闻起来很香。
--to the lunch break that day, hours before the ceremony.
——到那天的午休时间，仪式前几个小时。
I eat my food.
我吃我的食物。
Let me see, did I eat my food?
让我看看，我吃饱了吗？
I did not eat my food, because what we had was not so good.
我没有吃我的食物，因为我们吃的不太好。
So I just ate the cookies.
所以我只吃了饼干。
I sent it back out-- blech, take it.
我把它寄回去了——哎呀，拿去吧。
And he didn't have to do any fantasizing at all when it came to the ceremony itself.
而对于仪式本身，他根本不需要做任何幻想。
It was the real deal, with balloons, speeches.
这是真正的交易，有气球，有演讲。
His family was there.
他的家人在那里。
All of his classmates were in attendance.
他所有的同学都出席了。
And unlike them, instead of orange, Tristion was decked out in a dark green cap and gown.
与他们不同的是，Tristion 穿着深绿色的帽子和长袍，而不是橙色。
We tried to figure out, which side does the tassel go on?
我们试图弄清楚，流苏位于哪一侧？
And here we go.
我们开始吧。
And just that feeling of everybody looking, smiling.
就是那种每个人都在看着、微笑的感觉。
I'm just-- got my little military walk going on.
我刚刚开始我的小型军事步行活动。
You're saluting?
你在敬礼吗？
Tristion Saluting.
特里森敬礼。
I see my grandfather and my mother in the front.
我看到我的祖父和我的母亲在前面。
And I'm just like, man, this is really big.
我就想，伙计，这真的很大。
I get up and do my speech.
我站起来发表演讲。
All right, all right.
好吧，好吧。
This selection I selected is about mistakes and consequences, and reads as follows.
我选择的这个选择是关于错误和后果的，内容如下。
"While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of these actions.
“虽然我们可以自由选择我们的行动，但我们无法自由选择这些行动的后果。
Consequences are governed by natural law.
后果受自然法支配。
They are out in the circle of--"
他们在圈子里——”
I glance at my mom.
我看了一眼妈妈。
I see the little teardrop right here.
我看到这里有一滴小泪珠。
She tried to wipe it, but I caught it before she wiped it.
她试图擦拭它，但在她擦拭之前我抓住了它。
I'm like, ah, I seen you.
我就像，啊，我看到你了。
I thought I was going to have-- I thought I was going to cry, which I did later on.
我以为我会——我以为我会哭，后来我确实哭了。
My fellow classmates, they were like, man, that's big, son.
我的同学们都说，伙计，儿子，这太大了。
I want to graduate now.
我现在想毕业。
Ms. Burr, the math teacher, said she heard the same thing from the students.
数学老师伯尔女士说，她从学生那里听到了同样的说法。
It was just like, wait, I can actually get a diploma in here.
就像，等等，我实际上可以在这里获得文凭。
Like, that's a real thing.
就像，那是真实的事情。
And so I think sometimes they think we're just saying stuff.
所以我认为有时他们认为我们只是说说而已。
And so seeing those moments, they're just like, wow, this actually is a real place.
所以看到这些时刻，他们就像，哇，这实际上是一个真实的地方。
It's almost like they-- It took this kid, who lives in an imaginary version of jail, to make the school inside of the jail feel real.
就好像他们——这个生活在想象中的监狱里的孩子，让监狱里的学校变得真实。
But after Tristion's graduation, he had to go back to his cell, diploma in hand.
但特里斯蒂安毕业后，他不得不带着毕业证书回到自己的牢房。
His family had gone home.
他的家人已经回家了。
I went back to the dorm.
我回到宿舍。
It came, that one minute.
它来了，那一分钟。
Came that one minute of sadness-- like, the feeling of them leaving, and I'm not able to leave with them or follow right behind them.
那一分钟的悲伤来临了——就像他们离开的感觉，我无法和他们一起离开，也无法跟在他们身后。
That really took a little chunk out of me.
这确实让我很受打击。
I'm like-- I'm so used to my mama saying, follow me.
我就像——我已经习惯了妈妈说，跟我来。
And for them to walk out the door, that's the last time I'm seeing them until I get out.
当他们走出门时，这是我出去之前最后一次见到他们。
And I know I can't walk behind them.
我知道我不能走在他们后面。
That was big.
那是很大的。
And I'm laying down in my bed.
我躺在床上。
I'm like, here I am, back on the tier, graduated.
我想，我又回来了，毕业了。
I say, no, I'm not about to do this.
我说，不，我不打算这样做。
I'm not going to do this.
我不会这样做。
I graduated.
我毕业了。
I'm going to be home soon.
我很快就要回家了。
Tristion was sentenced the very next day after his graduation.
特里斯蒂安毕业后第二天就被判刑。
Last year, he'd asked the court to delay his sentencing until he finished his degree.
去年，他请求法庭推迟对他的判决，直到他完成学业。
Now he's at another facility and will be incarcerated until 2021, according to the Louisiana Department of Corrections.
据路易斯安那州惩教署称，现在他被关押在另一所监狱，并将被监禁至 2021 年。
One of Travis Hill's staff members, Alexi Gaddis, told the students during a, quote unquote, "life skills" class this spring, that it's already not easy for human beings to dream.
特拉维斯·希尔 (Travis Hill) 的一名工作人员亚历克西·加迪斯 (Alexi Gaddis) 在今年春天的“生活技能”课程中告诉学生们，人类实现梦想已经很不容易了。
It's already a vulnerable thing to believe in yourself, given all the ways the world can crush that.
考虑到世界可以用各种方式来粉碎相信自己，相信自己已经是一件很脆弱的事情了。
Getting these particular kids to give dreaming another chance, absurd as it can feel in some ways, given what this country thinks of them-- in the end, that's the core curriculum of this school.
让这些特殊的孩子再给梦想一次机会，考虑到这个国家对他们的看法，在某些方面感觉很荒谬——最终，这就是这所学校的核心课程。
Eli Hager-- he's a reporter for the Marshall Project.
Eli Hager——他是马歇尔计划的记者。
Since his visit to the Travis Hill school, two more students have graduated in the jail.
自从他访问特拉维斯山学校以来，又有两名学生从监狱毕业。
One of them said seeing Tristion graduate really inspired him.
其中一位表示，看到 Tristion 毕业确实激励了他。
You can read a print version of Eli's story on the Marshall Project's website, MarshallProject.org.
您可以在马歇尔项目网站 MarshallProject.org 上阅读 Eli 故事的印刷版。
Act Three, Those Who Can't Play.
第三幕，那些不会玩的人。
So our program today is about people trying to learn something it is just hard to learn.
所以我们今天的节目是关于人们试图学习一些很难学的东西。
And with the World Cup coming next week, I will point out, it's really hard to learn to be a great soccer player.
随着下周世界杯的到来，我要指出的是，学习成为一名出色的足球运动员真的很难。
Daniel Alarcon, the executive producer and host of Radio Ambulante, has this story about his dad.
流动广播电台的执行制片人和主持人丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔 (Daniel Alarcon) 有一个关于他父亲的故事。
Growing up in Peru, Daniel's dad, Renato, played soccer around the neighborhood, like all the kids did.
丹尼尔的父亲雷纳托在秘鲁长大，和所有孩子一样，在附近踢足球。
But he was never anything special.
但他从来没有什么特别的。
So it was certain, like, he was never thought of as being an athlete.
所以可以肯定的是，他从来没有被认为是一名运动员。
What he was thought of, from a young age, was being beyond unusually bright.
从很小的时候起，他就被认为是异常聪明的。
You know, when I've gone back, I was introduced as, oh, this is Renato's son.
你知道，当我回去时，有人介绍我说，哦，这是雷纳托的儿子。
And then just heard, just, oh, your dad was so smart.
然后我就听说，哦，你爸爸真聪明。
Your dad was so smart.
你爸爸真聪明。
When he was a kid, he won this-- he was, like, 14.
当他还是个孩子的时候，他就赢得了这个——当时他大概 14 岁。
He won this national quiz show for kids on TV--
他赢得了电视全国儿童智力问答节目——
Oh, wow.
哦，哇。
Daniel Alarcón --and flew from the city where he lived in, flew to Lima.
丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔——从他居住的城市飞往利马。
He was the only kid from the provinces who was a finalist, only kid from a public school, front page of the newspaper.
他是唯一一个进入决赛的来自各省的孩子，也是唯一一个来自公立学校的孩子，上了报纸的头版。
He was an incredibly verbal kid, loved poetry and words, great talker.
他是一个非常善于言谈的孩子，热爱诗歌和文字，非常健谈。
But again-- soccer?
但再说一遍——足球？
There's two things that happen when you aren't one of the better players.
当你不是更好的玩家之一时，会发生两件事。
They put you in goal, to be a goalkeeper.
他们让你守门，成为守门员。
Maybe, they might make you ref, but that's like really low, you know?
也许，他们可能会让你裁判，但这真的很低，你知道吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Daniel Alarcón But my dad turned that around and wasn't goalie or ref.
丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔 但我父亲扭转了局面，他不再是守门员或裁判。
And I'm sure he played.
我确信他参加了比赛。
I'm not saying that he didn't play.
我并不是说他没有参加比赛。
But he started calling the neighborhood games.
但他开始主持邻里比赛。
Wait, wait.
等等，等等。
So he was calling the games.
所以他正在主持比赛。
Did he have gear?
他有装备吗？
He had a microphone and a little speaker.
他有一个麦克风和一个小扬声器。
--when he's outside.
——当他在外面的时候。
Daniel Alarcón Yeah, yeah.
丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔 是的，是的。
And so basically, he's just taking equipment down and he's announcing kids' actual games as they're playing?
所以基本上，他只是把设备拿下来，然后在孩子们玩的时候宣布他们的实际游戏？
I would just imagine, if I were a kid playing in that game, to have somebody calling the game, and I could hear them calling the game as I was doing it, it would make me so much more competitive.
我只是想象，如果我还是个孩子，玩那个游戏，有人叫这个游戏，我可以听到他们在我做的时候叫这个游戏，这会让我更有竞争力。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
It makes it so much more epic.
它使它变得更加史诗般。
Yeah, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
My picture of it is, like, how glamorous.
我对它的想象是多么迷人啊。
Are you kidding me?
你在开玩笑吧？
Like, suddenly, their game is elevated.
就像突然之间，他们的比赛水平提高了。
And it's not just a neighborhood game.
这不仅仅是一场邻里游戏。
Now it's like, look, this is just like we're on the radio, which is just like-- that's the same they do for the World Cup.
现在就像，看，这就像我们在广播中一样，就像他们在世界杯上所做的一样。
Daniel's dad would also make up games-- like, whole professional games.
丹尼尔的父亲也会制作游戏——比如整个职业比赛。
Like, all the players, both sides, all the action-- starting, Daniel says, when he was 10 or 11.
就像所有的球员、双方、所有的动作一样——丹尼尔说，从他 10 岁或 11 岁的时候开始。
He would do it just for himself, as a thing to do, though the whole family knew he could do this.
他只是为了自己而做这件事，作为一件要做的事，尽管全家人都知道他能做到这一点。
And if, for example, on a Sunday afternoon, after everyone's had lunch, my father would start to be the entertainment for the adults.
举例来说，如果在周日下午，每个人都吃过午饭后，我父亲就会开始成为大人们的娱乐对象。
Hey, Renato, can you make up a game for us?
嘿，雷纳托，你能为我们编一个游戏吗？
Make it a good one.
让它成为一件好事。
And he would just describe a game.
他只会描述一场比赛。
And it's a completely made-up game, but when a goal would be scored, inevitably, the adults would cheer.
这完全是一场虚构的比赛，但当进球时，大人们不可避免地会欢呼。
And like, that was great.
就像，那太好了。
That was a great game.
那是一场很棒的比赛。
And he got really good at this.
他在这方面非常擅长。
Eventually, he was-- he was-- one of my great uncles had a little theater in a town called Mollendo on the beach-- a beach town in southern Peru.
最终，他——他是——我的一位叔祖父在海滩上一个叫莫伦多的小镇——秘鲁南部的一个海滩小镇——开了一家小剧院。
And they were doing a night of arts and poetry, or whatever-- a talent show, essentially.
他们正在做一个艺术和诗歌之夜，或者其他什么——本质上是一场才艺表演。
And my great uncle, Juan Castor, signed up my dad and was like, you're going to do it just like you do for us.
我的叔祖父胡安·卡斯特（Juan Castor）为我父亲报名，他说，你要像为我们做的那样做。
Around the house?
房子周围？
Daniel Alarcón Yeah, on Sunday afternoons.
丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔 是的，周日下午。
And I think, at that point, he was like 12 or 13.
我想，那时他大概 12 岁或 13 岁。
He goes out on stage, 300 people in the theater.
他走上舞台，剧场里有300人。
And he's nervous.
他很紧张。
But what he does is essentially make up a game.
但他所做的本质上就是编一个游戏。
So Melgar is the club from Arequipa.
所以梅尔加是来自阿雷基帕的俱乐部。
They're the local favorite from the province.
他们是该省当地人的最爱。
And in this game that he made up on stage, they played the big fancy team from the capital, Lima.
而在他在台上编造的这场比赛中，他们对阵的是来自首都利马的大牌球队。
Universitario, La "U." Ira Glass They're like the Yankees.
大学，La“U”。艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：他们就像洋基队。
They're like the Yankees, yeah.
他们就像洋基队，是的。
We don't like them.
我们不喜欢他们。
In his telling of it, everyone plays the game of their life, you know?
在他的讲述中，每个人都在玩自己的人生游戏，你知道吗？
Everyone does it exactly right, as if controlled by a marionette-- which of course, they were, right?
每个人都做得完全正确，就好像被木偶控制一样——当然，他们确实是这样，对吧？
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
Daniel Alarcón I can just-- I find it very easy to believe that people could have been really moved by the sport.
丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔（Daniel Alarcón） 我可以——我发现很容易相信人们真的会被这项运动所感动。
This wasn't like a fake game.
这不像是一场假游戏。
It was the game.
这就是游戏。
And so in his game, the hometown team gets it up to the edge and scores.
因此，在他的比赛中，家乡球队将比分追至边缘并得分。
Yes.
是的。
Melgar scores.
梅尔加得分。
People exploded, you know?
人都爆炸了你知道吗？
Like you were cheering something that had actually happened.
就像你在为实际发生的事情欢呼一样。
And the detail that he tells me that I'm always struck by is that when the lights came off and he went off stage, his uncle was crying, just weeping, with joy and with pride.
他告诉我的一个让我印象深刻的细节是，当灯光熄灭，他走下舞台时，他的叔叔在哭泣，只是哭泣，带着喜悦和自豪。
There's a video of you online with your dad on stage.
网上有一段你和你爸爸在舞台上的视频。
And you tell this story.
你讲这个故事。
And then your dad comes up on stage.
然后你爸爸就上台了。
And then he calls a game.
然后他宣布比赛。
Yeah.
是的。
He hadn't done this in like 50 years.
他已经有五十年没有做过这样的事了。
But we threw a jersey on him.
但我们给他穿上了一件球衣。
And he took the mic.
他接过麦克风。
And you threw some stadium sound underneath for realism.
为了真实感，你还添加了一些体育场的声音。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Ira Glass What's he saying?
[说西班牙语] Ira Glass 他在说什么？
So he's at minute 40, I believe he said.
我相信他是这么说的，所以他已经到了第 40 分钟。
A Peruvian team against a Brazilian team, and the Brazilian team is bringing the ball out of the back.
秘鲁队对阵巴西队，巴西队将球从后场带出。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Daniel Alarcón Nilton Santos, who was a Brazilian defender, kicking it out towards the right.
[西班牙语] 巴西后卫丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔·尼尔顿·桑托斯 (Daniel Alarcón Nilton Santos) 将球踢向右侧。
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
So [?
所以 [？
Irelia ?] was a midfielder, a Peruvian midfielder.
艾雷莉亚？]是一名中场球员，一名秘鲁中场球员。
He intercepts the ball here.
他在这里拦截了球。
So this is where things start shifting.
所以这就是事情开始转变的地方。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Daniel Alarcón So [?
[西班牙语] Daniel Alarcón 那么 [?
Irelia ?] intercepts the ball and passes towards the right.
艾瑞莉亚？] 拦截球并向右侧传球。
This is actually a stroke of genius that's coming up.
这实际上是即将出现的天才之举。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Daniel Alarcón Short pass to [?
[西班牙语] Daniel Alarcón 短传给 [?
Navarrete.
纳瓦雷特。
?] He passes to [INAUDIBLE].
？] 他传球给[听不清]。
Chino Rivera heads it.
奇诺·里维拉领衔。
OK, so this is the part where I was like, Dad, you're really playing with our emotions here.
好吧，这就是我想的部分，爸爸，你真的在这里玩弄我们的情感。
The ball-- in his telling, the ball hits the post.
球——按照他的说法，球击中了门柱。
So Chino Rivera heads the ball, and it hits off the post.
奇诺·里维拉头球攻门，球击中门柱。
Back in the field, [?
回到现场，[?
Terry-- ?] [?
特里--？] [？
Terry ?] scores.
特里？]得分。
Goal!
目标！
Daniel Alarcón Giant chills, man.
丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔（Daniel Alarcón） 浑身发冷，伙计。
[SPANISH]
[西班牙语]
Peru, uno.
秘鲁，联合国。
Brazil, zero.
巴西，零。
Ira Glass I feel excited.
艾拉·格拉斯 我感到很兴奋。
That's great.
那太棒了。
That's great.
那太棒了。
See?
看？
It works.
有用。
It's funny to think that if he had actually been great at soccer, that moment on stage never would have happened.
有趣的是，如果他真的擅长足球，那么舞台上的那一刻就不会发生。
Right, right.
对，对。
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
I mean, they might have been singing songs about him, you know?
我的意思是，他们可能一直在唱关于他的歌曲，你知道吗？
Oh, somebody else would be.
哦，别人会的。
Daniel Alarcón Yeah, some other kid would have been on stage, and--
丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔 (Daniel Alarcón) 是的，其他孩子可能会在舞台上，而且——
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass Daniel Alarcon-- he first told this story on his show, Radio Ambulante.
艾拉·格拉斯·丹尼尔·阿拉尔孔（Ira Glass Daniel Alarcon）——他首先在他的节目《流动电台》中讲述了这个故事。
Close your eyes for a moment.
闭上眼睛一会儿。
Yes, close them.
是的，关闭它们。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。