644: Random Acts of History - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #644 | June 21, 2019 644: Random Acts of History Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 644 集 | 2019 年 6 月 21 日 644：历史随机事件 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass This story begins with a random encounter with history.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 这个故事始于与历史的一次偶然邂逅。
Our senior producer, Brian Reed, was spending a lot of time in Alabama a few years back doing reporting.
我们的高级制片人布莱恩·里德（Brian Reed）几年前在阿拉巴马州花费了大量时间进行报道。
And one morning he went for a jog near his hotel-- he was in Tuscaloosa-- and he got to this park.
一天早上，他在塔斯卡卢萨的酒店附近慢跑，然后来到了这个公园。
Where the ruins of the old state capitol are.
旧州议会大厦遗址所在的地方。
And then I ran down this little pathway down the hill, and I saw this marker, one of those historical markers.
然后我沿着这条小路跑下山，我看到了这个标记，那些历史标记之一。
And I have never forgotten this thing.
而我从来没有忘记过这件事。
Like, it stayed with me.
就像，它一直伴随着我。
And every time I went back to Tuscaloosa, which was a number of times, I would go, at some point during the trip, walk over and read it again.
每次我多次回到塔斯卡卢萨，我都会在旅途中的某个时刻走过去再读一遍。
I brought my wife one time.
有一次我带了我老婆来。
I brought her to see it, a friend.
我带她去看了，朋友。
I've been there a bunch.
我去过那里很多次。
Yeah.
是的。
So the marker's titled "The Indian Fires Are Going Out," in quotes.
因此，标记的标题是“印度大火即将熄灭”，并用引号引起来。
And it explains that the Trail of Tears led thousands of Creek Indians through Tuscaloosa, back when it was the capital of Alabama, on their way to the West as they were being driven from that part of the country.
它还解释说，当塔斯卡卢萨还是阿拉巴马州的首府时，泪水之路带领成千上万的克里克印第安人穿过塔斯卡卢萨，前往西部，因为他们被赶出了该国的那个地区。
Mm-hm.
嗯嗯。
And their homelands.
还有他们的祖国。
Brian Reed Yeah, and their homelands.
布莱恩·里德 是的，还有他们的祖国。
And during that time, a Creek chief addressed the legislature on their way out of the state with these words.
在那段时间里，一位克里克酋长在离开该州的路上向立法机关发表了这些话。
He gave this speech.
他发表了这次讲话。
Quote, "I come here, brothers, to see the great house of Alabama and the men who make the laws and to say farewell in brotherly kindness before I go to the far West where my people are now going.
引用：“兄弟们，我来这里是为了参观阿拉巴马州的伟大房子和制定法律的人，并以兄弟般的善意告别，然后再前往我的人民现在要去的遥远的西部。
In time gone by, I have thought that the white men wanted to bring burden and ache of heart among my people in driving them from their homes and yoking them with laws they do not understand.
在过去，我认为白人想要给我的人民带来负担和痛苦，将他们赶出家园，并用他们不理解的法律束缚他们。
But I have now become satisfied that they are not unfriendly toward us, but that they wish us well.
但我现在已经很满意了，他们并不是对我们不友好，而是希望我们一切顺利。
In these lands of Alabama, which have belonged to my forefathers and where their bones lie buried, I see that the Indian fires are going out.
在阿拉巴马州的这片土地上，这些土地曾经属于我的祖先，埋葬着他们的尸骨，我看到印第安人的大火正在熄灭。
Soon they will be cold.
很快他们就会冷了。
New fires are lighting in the West for us, they say, and we will go there.
他们说，西方正在为我们点燃新的火焰，我们将前往那里。
I do not believe our great Father means to harm his red children, but that he wishes us well.
我不相信我们伟大的父亲有意伤害他的红色孩子，但他祝愿我们一切顺利。
We leave behind our goodwill to the people of Alabama who build the great houses and to the men who make the laws.
我们向建造伟大房屋的阿拉巴马人民和制定法律的人留下我们的善意。
This is all I have to say."
这就是我要说的全部。”
And what do you make-- what a strange speech to make, as you're being exiled, to the people who are exiling you.
当你被流放时，你对那些流放你的人做了什么——这是多么奇怪的演讲啊。
Exactly.
确切地。
Yeah, that's what struck me about it.
是的，这就是让我印象深刻的地方。
I mean, first of all, super sad.
我的意思是，首先，非常悲伤。
And I found it very moving.
我觉得这很感人。
But also, I read it and reread it, and I just wondered, is this speech kind of subversive in some way?
而且，我读了又读，我只是想知道，这篇演讲在某种程度上是否具有颠覆性？
Was this chief standing there in front of the Alabama state legislature, which was partially responsible for kicking his people out, and kind of mocking them slightly or being slightly sarcastic in this speech?
这位酋长是否站在阿拉巴马州立法机构前（该机构对驱逐他的人民负有部分责任）在这次演讲中有点嘲笑他们或有点讽刺？
Especially this part, "In time gone by, I have thought that the white men wanted to bring burden and ache of heart among my people in driving them from their homes and yoking them with laws they do not understand.
尤其是这一部分，“在过去，我认为白人想要给我的人民带来负担和痛苦，将他们赶出家园，并用他们不理解的法律束缚他们。
But I have now become satisfied that they're not unfriendly toward us, that they wish us well."
但现在我已经很满意了，他们对我们并不是不友好，他们祝我们一切顺利。”
Right.
正确的。
Brian Reed Like he's saying, you guys have yoked us with your laws and driven us from our homes, but we know you wish us well.
布莱恩·里德：就像他说的，你们用你们的法律束缚了我们，把我们赶出了家园，但我们知道你们希望我们一切顺利。
And I just wondered if there was something slightly arch about that.
我只是想知道这是否有一些微妙的地方。
Something arch that went right over the heads of the legislators at the time and also over the heads of the Alabama Historical Association when they approved this marker over a century and a half later.
当时的立法者以及阿拉巴马州历史协会在一个半世纪后批准了这一标记时，都感到非常困惑。
And so recently, Brian decided to look into it.
最近，布莱恩决定对此进行调查。
What did the chief mean?
首领的意思是什么？
Did he say it under duress?
他是被胁迫才说的吗？
Did this even happen?
这真的发生过吗？
And what we found was, yes, the speech really did occur in the Muskogee language, interpreted into English at the legislature.
我们发现，是的，演讲确实是用马斯科吉语进行的，并在立法机关翻译成英语。
He found the primary source for us knowing about it-- the only source-- a newspaper article in The Huntsville Democrat in 1835.
他找到了我们了解此事的主要来源——唯一的来源——1835 年《亨茨维尔民主党报》上的一篇报纸文章。
It says legislators teared up at the speech.
据称，议员们在演讲中落泪了。
And I talked to several historians, including two experts who are Creek themselves, and there does not seem to be evidence that this was sarcastic.
我和几位历史学家交谈过，其中包括两位本身就是克里克人的专家，似乎没有证据表明这是讽刺。
So but the people who are Creek, what did they make of it?
那么，克里克人对此有何看法呢？
What did they say to you about it?
他们对你说了什么？
Well, I talked to one woman, named RaeLynn Butler.
嗯，我和一位名叫 RaeLynn Butler 的女士交谈过。
She's the manager of historic and cultural preservation at the Muskogee Creek Nation in Oklahoma.
她是俄克拉荷马州马斯科吉溪国家历史和文化保护部门的经理。
She'd never seen the speech before.
她以前从未见过这个演讲。
And she lives in Oklahoma.
她住在俄克拉荷马州。
Her ancestors were part of this group of people who left Alabama at this time and came to Oklahoma, and she'd never seen the speech before till we sent it to her to ask her about it.
她的祖先是此时离开阿拉巴马州来到俄克拉荷马州的这群人的一部分，她以前从未见过这篇演讲，直到我们把它寄给她询问她的情况。
I was very confused when I read the speech because--
当我读到演讲稿时，我感到非常困惑，因为——
Really?
真的吗？
You, too?
你也是？
Raelynn Butler Yes.
雷琳·巴特勒 是的。
It did not sound accurate to me.
这对我来说听起来不准确。
He talks about how we're being driven from our homes, and then, in the same breath, goes on to say, this is for the betterment of our people.
他谈到我们如何被赶出家园，然后同时接着说，这是为了我们人民的福祉。
Yeah, so she reacted to the same thing in the speech that I reacted to.
是的，所以她对演讲中的反应和我的反应是一样的。
So anyway, so she ended up getting her whole team involved at the cultural preservation office, and they started looking through their archives.
不管怎样，她最终让她的整个团队都参与到了文化保护办公室，他们开始查阅档案。
And she told me, as they were researching, they were hoping to find evidence that this wasn't exactly right, that maybe the interpreter had messed up or something else was wrong about this speech.
她告诉我，当他们进行研究时，他们希望找到证据证明这并不完全正确，也许口译员搞砸了，或者这次演讲有其他问题。
I was hoping for that.
我正希望如此。
Brian Reed And you didn't find it.
布莱恩·里德（Brian Reed），而你没有找到它。
No, and we did not find it.
不，我们没有找到它。
Brian Reed So the reality is kind of sobering.
布莱恩·里德（Brian Reed） 所以现实是发人深省的。
Yes.
是的。
Brian Reed Did it bum you out when you heard about this speech?
布莱恩·里德 (Brian Reed) 当您听到这篇演讲时，您是否感到沮丧？
Yes.
是的。
I was bummed to read the speech mainly because I felt that it misrepresented the way that I felt and the way I know my family feels about removal or about assimilation.
我读这篇演讲感到很沮丧，主要是因为我觉得它歪曲了我的感受以及我知道我的家人对搬迁或同化的感受。
It's just hard to accept the fact that he says, we know you mean us no harm.
只是很难接受他说的事实，我们知道你无意伤害我们。
It just seemed to go a little bit too far.
这似乎有点太过分了。
You lose the game, you shake someone's hand to acknowledge a good game and that we lost.
你输掉了比赛，你和某人握手以承认我们输了一场精彩的比赛。
But in this speech, to me, it seems like Yoholo Micco is not only shaking their hand, but he's giving them a hug or even a kiss goodbye.
但在这次演讲中，对我来说，Yoholo Micco 似乎不仅在握手，而且还给了他们一个拥抱，甚至是一个吻别。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass So basically, Brian stumbled upon this random bit of history three years ago.
Ira Glass 所以基本上，布莱恩三年前偶然发现了这段随机的历史。
He started sharing it with people who usually had just as strong a reaction as he had-- reactions of various kinds.
他开始与那些通常和他有同样强烈反应的人分享——各种各样的反应。
And it kind of ricocheted around from person to person, piercing into each one this bullet of information from the past.
它在人与人之间传播，将这颗来自过去的信息刺入每个人的内心。
And since we don't actually know a lot about this speech-- we don't know for sure which chief it was, we don't know why he said it, the only account of it comes from this one newspaper reporter and leaves crucial questions unanswered-- in the end, it's unclear what to think.
由于我们实际上对这次演讲了解不多——我们不确定是哪位负责人，我们不知道他为什么这么说，对此的唯一描述来自一位报纸记者，而关键问题没有得到解答——最终，我们不清楚该怎么想。
And even after trying to research it, what we're left with is our own personal reactions and feelings.
即使在尝试研究之后，我们留下的也只是我们自己的个人反应和感受。
Well, today on our program, we have two stories about people who bump into unsettling facts from history.
好吧，今天在我们的节目中，我们有两个关于人们偶然发现历史上令人不安的事实的故事。
They're both stories that's in a setting designed to actually teach them a little bit of history.
这些故事的背景都是为了真正教会他们一些历史。
And in both of these stories, what they learn is so different from the lessons that they are supposed to get from the past.
在这两个故事中，他们学到的东西与他们应该从过去得到的教训有很大不同。
In fact, it's not even close.
事实上，还差得很远。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, The Miseducation of Castlemont High.
第一幕，卡斯蒙特高中的错误教育。
So we begin with a bunch of students who were taken on a field trip to learn about the past.
因此，我们从一群学生开始，他们被带去实地考察以了解过去。
They were going to see a film that covers some history.
他们要看一部讲述一些历史的电影。
They were also going to go ice skating, which a lot of them were especially looking forward to.
他们还要去滑冰，很多人都特别期待。
This happened back in 1994.
这件事发生在1994年。
And what happened on that field trip with this group of black and Latino students became kind of a big deal, talked about all across the country because of what they did not learn.
那次与这群黑人和拉丁裔学生一起进行实地考察时发生的事情成了一件大事，因为他们没有学到东西而在全国范围内引起热议。
BA Parker has worked on our show, and she also incidentally used to be a film professor, and she tells what happened.
BA Parker 曾参与我们的节目，顺便说一句，她也曾经是一名电影教授，她讲述了发生的事情。
It was actually a school holiday-- January 17, Martin Luther King Day.
这实际上是一个学校假期——1 月 17 日，马丁·路德·金纪念日。
And even though there was no school, the teacher was known for his great field trips, so 70 kids showed up.
尽管没有学校，但这位老师因其出色的实地考察而闻名，因此有 70 名孩子参加了活动。
That morning, most of them crowded onto a single bus and headed to the Grand Lake Theatre, this beautiful classic movie house in town.
那天早上，他们中的大多数人挤上一辆公共汽车，前往镇上这座美丽的经典电影院大湖剧院。
As soon as they got there, they noticed that almost all of the other patrons were white.
他们一到达那里，就发现几乎所有其他顾客都是白人。
And according to the kids, those patrons noticed them back.
据孩子们说，那些顾客注意到了他们。
Tracy Wilson was one of the students on the field trip, a freshman.
特雷西·威尔逊（Tracy Wilson）是这次实地考察的学生之一，是一名新生。
What kind of looks?
什么样的长相？
Tracy Wilson In a matter of, what are you doing here?
特雷西·威尔逊 顺便问一句，你来这里做什么？
We don't look like anybody else that's standing in line, but no one said anything to us.
我们看起来不像其他排队的人，但没有人对我们说任何话。
No, I take that back.
不，我收回那句话。
There were those bold ones that asked the question.
那些大胆的人提出了这个问题。
Oh, are you guys on a field trip?
哦，你们去实地考察吗？
Yes.
是的。
What school are you from?
你是哪所学校的？
Castlemont.
卡斯尔蒙特。
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
And you guys are here to watch a movie?
你们是来看电影的吗？
Yeah.
是的。
What movie are you all watching?
大家都在看什么电影呢？
And then they're like, ah, OK.
然后他们就说，啊，好吧。
You know?
你知道？
Then we get into the theater, and downhill from there.
然后我们进入剧院，然后从那里下坡。
The movie they were going to see was Schindler's List, a film about the Holocaust.
他们要看的电影是《辛德勒的名单》，一部关于大屠杀的电影。
They walked into the theater.
他们走进了剧院。
It was chaotic.
场面一片混乱。
The teacher had made arrangements ahead of time, but no one remembered him calling.
老师提前做好了安排，但没有人记得他打过电话。
So the 70 teenagers just sat where they could, a lot of them in the back.
所以这 70 名青少年就坐在能坐的地方，其中很多人坐在后面。
The four chaperones sat in the front-- four of them for 70 kids.
四名监护人坐在前排——其中四名监护人负责 70 个孩子。
If you're not familiar with Schindler's List, basically, Oskar Schindler, a real-life German businessman played by Liam Neeson, tricks the Nazis into letting him save 1,200 Jewish people in Poland.
如果你不熟悉《辛德勒的名单》，基本上，连姆·尼森饰演的现实生活中的德国商人奥斯卡·辛德勒欺骗纳粹让他拯救波兰的 1,200 名犹太人。
But that plot isn't clear for a long, long time.
但这个情节在很长一段时间内都不清楚。
And it's artsy in the beginning, almost impenetrable.
一开始就很艺术，几乎难以理解。
At least, that's how I felt when I was a teenager and my teacher showed us the film.
至少，当我十几岁的时候，我的老师给我们看了这部电影时，我就是这么感觉的。
Long shots with nobody talking, and you don't know what's going on.
没有人说话的远景，你不知道发生了什么。
And it's three hours long and in black and white.
片长三个小时，黑白形式。
At 14, Tracy felt the same way.
14 岁时，特雷西也有同样的感觉。
It opened up with a candle.
它用一根蜡烛打开了。
[MATCH STRIKING]
[比赛精彩]
And I was like, OK.
我当时想，好吧。
Rabbi [SPEAKING HEBREW]
拉比 [说希伯来语]
I mean, to us, we were probably like, oh God, black and white.
我的意思是，对我们来说，我们可能就像，哦上帝，黑白。
Where are the subtitles?
字幕在哪里？
Is this a foreign film?
这是外国电影吗？
Is this a documentary?
这是一部纪录片吗？
Oh God, we have to sit through this to go skating?
天哪，我们必须忍受这一切才能去滑冰吗？
Well, I remember I was seeing a movie that was in black and white.
嗯，我记得我正在看一部黑白电影。
This is Tanzania Enskip, also a freshman on the field trip.
我是坦桑尼亚·恩斯基普，也是参加实地考察的一年级学生。
Today, she's a teacher.
今天，她是一名老师。
A lot of violence.
很多暴力。
There was a lot of violence in the movie.
电影中有很多暴力内容。
And I remember seeing a lot of things that high school kids shouldn't be seeing.
我记得看到了很多高中生不应该看到的东西。
I remember one scene.
我记得一个场景。
I was like, wait a minute.
我当时想，等一下。
That should only be in sex education, not on this screen.
那应该只出现在性教育中，而不是出现在屏幕上。
A lot of kids were like, oh, my God.
很多孩子都说，哦，天啊。
For a film about a concentration camp, Schindler's List has a fair amount of sex and titillating nudity in it, which, again, weird thing to show a bunch of high school kids on a field trip.
作为一部关于集中营的电影，《辛德勒的名单》中有相当多的性爱和令人兴奋的裸体镜头，这对于一群高中生进行实地考察来说又是一件很奇怪的事情。
This is Tracy.
这是特蕾西。
Yeah.
是的。
We were probably-- no, I wouldn't say probably-- we were definitely unruly.
我们可能——不，我不会说可能——我们绝对不守规矩。
It doesn't matter what type of movie it is, people talk.
不管是什么类型的电影，人们都会谈论。
And we didn't want to be there, so probably heard some [CLICKS TONGUE] aw, man, teeth-sucking, attitude.
我们不想在那里，所以可能听到一些[点击舌头] 哦，伙计，吮吸牙齿的态度。
All the kids admit today they didn't behave appropriately during the movie.
今天所有的孩子都承认他们在看电影时行为不端。
They were restless.
他们焦躁不安。
They talked and horsed around with each other.
他们互相交谈、嬉戏。
Some went out to get drinks and popcorn.
有些人出去买饮料和爆米花。
Others even snuck into other movies.
其他人甚至潜入其他电影。
House Party 3 was also playing that day.
当天也在播放《House Party 3》。
Those who stayed in the theater were shushed several times by the other patrons and also an usher and a chaperone.
那些留在剧院的人多次被其他顾客、引座员和陪同人员嘘声。
When one of the moviegoers told them to be quiet, they reportedly bombarded him with popcorn.
据报道，当一名电影观众让他们安静时，他们用爆米花轰炸了他。
I do recall a scene where the young Jewish girl is talking to the German soldiers.
我确实记得一个犹太女孩与德国士兵交谈的场景。
Nathanial Osborne was a senior when he went on the field trip.
纳撒尼尔·奥斯本参加实地考察时是一名大四学生。
Now he teaches special education.
现在他教授特殊教育。
The Jewish woman in the scene he's talking about was the foreman on a construction project.
他所谈论的场景中的犹太妇女是一个建筑项目的工头。
They were building a concentration camp.
他们正在建造一个集中营。
And the way they were building it was incorrect.
他们构建它的方式是不正确的。
She said it was going to cave in.
她说它会塌陷。
Herr Kommandant, the entire foundation has to be torn down and re-poured.
指挥官先生，整个地基必须拆除并重新浇筑。
If not--
如果没有——
So she was expressing that to them.
所以她向他们表达了这一点。
The general or the guy in charge there--
将军或者那里的负责人——
That would be Ralph Fiennes in the film.
那就是电影中的拉尔夫·费因斯。
You know, looked at her.
你知道，看着她。
Amon Goeth And you are an engineer?
Amon Goeth 你是一名工程师？
Looked at his constituents.
看看他的选民。
Amon Goeth Unterscharfuehrer!
阿蒙·戈特·Unterscharfuehrer！
Shoot her.
开枪射击她。
Nathaniel Osborne --then he told them to shoot her.
纳撒尼尔·奥斯本——然后他让他们开枪射杀她。
And I remember I heard somebody says, oh my God, he's not going to shoot her.
我记得我听到有人说，天啊，他不会开枪射杀她的。
This is Tanzania.
这就是坦桑尼亚。
Tanzania Enskip Then one of the kids said that out loud.
坦桑尼亚·恩斯基普 然后其中一个孩子大声说道。
And I was thinking the same thing in my head.
我脑子里也在想同样的事情。
I said, he's not going to shoot this woman.
我说，他不会开枪打死这个女人。
She's just trying to try to let them know that they're doing something incorrectly.
她只是想让他们知道他们做错了事。
Ja.
贾。
I'm doing mine.
我正在做我的。
Albert Hujar Sir, she's foreman of construction.
艾伯特·胡贾尔先生，她是建筑工头。
We're not going to have arguments with these people.
我们不会与这些人争论。
And the guy simply pulled out his gun and shot her.
那家伙只是拔出枪向她开枪。
[GUNSHOT] Tanzania Enskip That's when I remember a lot of students were like, oh!
[GUNSHOT] Tanzania Enskip 当时我记得很多学生都说，哦！
Oh, my God!
我的天啊！
Oh!
哦！
He shot her!
他开枪打死了她！
Whoa!
哇！
Tracy Wilson.
特雷西·威尔逊。
Tracy Wilson Back then, what did we say?
特雷西·威尔逊 那时，我们说什么？
Dang!
当当！
You know?
你知道？
Or, man, that was crazy.
或者，伙计，那太疯狂了。
Or--
或者——
What one of the Castlemont kids-- we don't know who-- actually said-- the five words that would come to define this incident-- "Oh, man.
卡斯尔蒙特的一个孩子——我们不知道是谁——实际上说了——这五个词定义了这一事件——“哦，伙计。
That was cold."
那很冷。”
But he probably said it as, Aw, man.
但他可能这么说，噢，伙计。
That was cold.
那很冷。
He said it really loud, I believe.
他说得很大声，我相信。
He was like, Aw, man.
他就像，噢，伙计。
That was cold.
那很冷。
And just quickly, there was something else about the scene-- the way the actress fell after she was shot.
很快，这个场景就发生了一些其他的事情——女演员被枪杀后摔倒的样子。
She bounces abruptly, up and down again, into the snow.
她突然在雪中上下弹跳。
It looks unnatural.
看起来不自然。
Her body was very involved.
她的身体非常投入。
Like, OK, that's a bit much.
就像，好吧，这有点多了。
As we would say nowadays, extra.
正如我们现在所说的，额外的。
And that's when I recall the giggle, shall I say.
我应该说，就在那时我想起了那场咯咯笑。
Some kids in the theater laughing while blood poured out of the woman's head.
剧院里的一些孩子在笑，而血从女人的头上流出来。
It wasn't at the fact that she got shot.
并不是因为她被枪杀了。
It was her overdramatizing being shot.
她被枪杀的场面太过戏剧化了。
And so then what happened?
那么后来发生了什么？
Tracy Wilson You would see some people get up that were not students and head out the theater.
特雷西·威尔逊（Tracy Wilson）你会看到一些不是学生的人起身走出剧院。
I was in my office upstairs, and I decided to go downstairs and get a cup of coffee.
我在楼上的办公室里，决定下楼去喝杯咖啡。
This is Allen Michaan, the owner of the Grand Lake Theatre.
我是艾伦·米查恩，大湖剧院的老板。
I went down into the lobby, and there were several dozen very angry, agitated people that were screaming at the manager-- what are you going to do about this?
我走进大厅，看到有几十个非常愤怒、激动的人对着经理大喊大叫——你打算怎么办？
This is outrageous.
这太离谱了。
You've got to do something about this.
你必须对此做点什么。
Angry.
生气的。
They were furious.
他们很愤怒。
And there was one woman that was in tears.
其中有一位女士正在流泪。
Allen asked the manager what was going on.
艾伦问经理发生了什么事。
The manager told him.
经理告诉他。
There were 500 people in the theater that day watching one of the most upsetting films of the 20th century, and some of them-- the teenagers-- were laughing and carrying on.
那天，电影院里有 500 人观看了 20 世纪最令人不安的电影之一，其中一些人——青少年——笑着继续说道。
And these people in the lobby, some of them told Allen they were family of Holocaust survivors.
大厅里的这些人，其中一些人告诉艾伦，他们是大屠杀幸存者的家人。
And I only thought of one thing, and that is, I have a riot situation on my hands.
而我只想到一件事，那就是我手上有骚乱的情况。
So I went into the projection room and I told projectionist, I said, stop the film.
所以我走进放映室，我告诉放映员，我说，停止放映。
And I said, would the class field trip from Castlemont School please assemble in the lobby?
我说，卡斯尔蒙特学校的班级实地考察可以在大厅集合吗？
Again, this is Tracy.
再说一次，这是特雷西。
Tracy Wilson I think there might have been applause.
特雷西·威尔逊（Tracy Wilson）我想大家可能会鼓掌。
That was so uncomfortable.
那太不舒服了。
Allen, the theater owner, didn't know when he stopped the movie that the Castlemont students were kids of color, mostly black.
剧院老板艾伦不知道电影什么时候停播，卡斯蒙特的学生都是有色人种的孩子，其中大部分是黑人。
But Tanzania told me and my producer, Sean Cole, that, as the students walked out of the theater, the audience definitely knew it.
但坦桑尼亚告诉我和我的制片人肖恩·科尔，当学生们走出剧院时，观众肯定知道这一点。
People were clapping.
人们鼓掌。
They were applauding.
他们鼓掌。
I remember I walked past one gentleman.
我记得我走过一位绅士。
He told me to go back to Africa.
他叫我回非洲去。
Yeah.
是的。
I said, whoa.
我说，哇。
I said, wait a minute.
我说，等一下。
I didn't do anything.
我什么也没做。
That's all I could say.
我只能说这么多。
I remember I said, I didn't even do anything.
我记得我说过，我什么也没做。
But yeah, it was a gentleman.
但是，是的，这是一位绅士。
Becaust I remember I was walking back up, and he was on my left.
因为我记得我正在往回走，而他就在我的左边。
I felt embarrassed.
我感到很尴尬。
I get that.
我明白了。
I was also a black teenager who went to the movies with her friends, and there was always a feeling of being policed or policing yourself if you're young, brown, and carefree in a white space.
我也是一个黑人青少年，和她的朋友一起去看电影，如果你年轻，棕色，在白色空间里无忧无虑，总是有一种被警察或警察自己的感觉。
That can harden you really quick.
这可以让你很快变得坚强。
Tracy again.
又是特雷西。
At that point, I was, for lack of a better term, pissed off.
那时，我很生气，因为找不到更好的词。
You're clapping?
你在鼓掌吗？
We're kids, and you're adults.
我们是孩子，你们是成年人。
But now that I'm an adult, I could see why people were clapping.
但现在我已经是成年人了，我能明白为什么人们鼓掌了。
We were offensive in some of our actions.
我们的一些行为是冒犯性的。
And with the movie being what it was, it makes sense to me now, most definitely.
鉴于这部电影本来的样子，现在对我来说绝对是有意义的。
15?
15？
No.
不。
Again, Tanzania.
再说坦桑尼亚。
Tanzania Enskip It's starting to come back to me now, everything.
坦桑尼亚·恩斯基普 我现在开始想起来了，一切。
And when we were outside in front of the theater waiting on the bus to come back and pick us up, they told us we couldn't wait in front of the theater.
当我们在剧院前面等待巴士回来接我们时，他们告诉我们不能在剧院前面等。
And I felt embarrassed by that.
我对此感到尴尬。
I felt bad about it because I said, wow, we're not even good enough to just wait here?
我对此感到很难过，因为我说，哇，我们连在这里等都不够好？
They didn't go skating.
他们没有去滑冰。
Two days after that, Tanzania remembers she was walking to school.
两天后，坦桑尼亚记得她正在步行去学校。
I'm about to get ready to go to class.
我正准备去上课。
Let me grab a juice.
让我喝杯果汁。
And I stopped by a store that was close by the school, and I looked down at the newspapers.
我在学校附近的一家商店停下来，低头看着报纸。
And it was saying, Castlemont High School students get kicked out the theater.
有人说，卡斯尔蒙特高中的学生被赶出了剧院。
They were in the newspaper on the front page at the very top.
它们出现在报纸头版的最上面。
And I said, wait a minute.
我说，等一下。
We're bigger than the earthquake?
我们比地震还大吗？
There'd been a huge earthquake in California the day before-- 6.7 magnitude.
前一天，加利福尼亚州发生了 6.7 级大地震。
57 people died.
57人死亡。
That was on the front page too, below the story about Castlemont.
这也出现在头版上，位于卡斯尔蒙特故事的下方。
All we did was get kicked out of the theater.
我们所做的就是被赶出剧院。
I was like, how are we bigger than the earthquake?
我当时想，我们怎么比地震还严重呢？
That should be headline news.
这应该是头条新闻。
The article read, "To the horror of many in the audience during Monday's matinee, some of the African-American and Latino teenagers seemed to laugh and applaud at scenes depicting Nazi atrocities." It went on, "People attending the film were shocked and angry by what they felt was insensitivity to the Holocaust." Other news organizations picked up the story as a theater-going version of a hate crime, that dozens of black and Latino kids in Oakland were cheering on the murder of Jewish people.
文章写道：“令许多观众在周一的日场演出中感到恐惧的是，一些非裔美国人和拉丁裔青少年似乎在看到描绘纳粹暴行的场景时大笑并鼓掌。”影片接着说，“观看电影的人们对他们对大屠杀的麻木不仁感到震惊和愤怒。”其他新闻机构将这个故事视为仇恨犯罪的戏剧版本，奥克兰的数十名黑人和拉丁裔孩子正在为犹太人被谋杀而欢呼。
Hi.
你好。
I was in the audience with my 13-year-old son and two other friends.
我和我 13 岁的儿子以及另外两个朋友坐在观众席上。
This is from a local call-in show, Flashpoints, that was featured in a documentary called Blacks and Jews from the mid-90s.
这是来自当地的热线节目《Flashpoints》，该节目出现在一部 90 年代中期的纪录片《黑人和犹太人》中。
And I was going like, who spends money to see a film on the Holocaust just to disrupt it?
我当时想，谁花钱看一部关于大屠杀的电影只是为了破坏它？
And I thought, are these Nazi sympathizers?
我想，这些是纳粹同情者吗？
I couldn't understand who these people were.
我无法理解这些人是谁。
From this point, what actually happened in that theater and the motivations of the kids who were there became less important than how other people chose to see them.
从这一点开始，剧院里实际发生的事情以及那里的孩子们的动机变得不再那么重要，重要的是其他人选择如何观看他们。
They weren't kids who goofed off on a field trip.
他们不是在实地考察中偷懒的孩子。
They were African-American and Latino teenagers applauding at Nazi atrocities.
他们是非洲裔美国人和拉丁裔青少年，他们为纳粹的暴行鼓掌。
They were anti-Semites.
他们是反犹太主义者。
I was just like, wait a minute.
我当时想，等一下。
That's not me.
那不是我。
Tanzania didn't even know back then what anti-Semitic meant.
坦桑尼亚当时甚至不知道反犹太主义意味着什么。
If you would have asked me when I was 15, I would've told you no. I would have been like, what is that?
如果你在我 15 岁时问我，我会告诉你不。我会想，那是什么？
What is that word?
那个词是什么？
What does that mean?
这意味着什么？
But after hearing it, though, you look it up in a dictionary, and you figure out what it is.
但听完之后，你查字典，你就知道它是什么了。
Yeah.
是的。
That's a hell of a way to learn it.
这是一个非常好的学习方法。
Yeah.
是的。
B.
B.
A.
A.
Parker Jewish people just weren't on their radar-- to hate, to love, anything.
帕克犹太人只是不在他们的雷达范围内——去恨，去爱，任何东西。
Nathaniel didn't even know if he'd ever met someone who was Jewish.
纳撒尼尔甚至不知道他是否见过犹太人。
No. And if I did, I didn't know they were Jewish.
不。即使我这样做了，我也不知道他们是犹太人。
Did you know that some of your white teachers happened to be Jewish or anything?
你知道你的一些白人老师碰巧是犹太人还是其他什么人吗？
No. I want to say Mr. Finkelstein.
不，我想说芬克尔斯坦先生。
That's what I want to say had some Jewish ties.
这就是我想说的有一些犹太联系。
That sounds about right.
听起来不错。
Nathaniel Osborne But, no.
纳撒尼尔·奥斯本 但是，不。
There was another thing the students didn't know about-- the Holocaust.
还有一件事学生们不知道——大屠杀。
They got an hour-long lesson on the basics before the field trip, but that was it.
在实地考察之前，他们接受了长达一小时的基础知识课程，但仅此而已。
Some of them had learned a little bit about it in middle school a few years earlier.
他们中的一些人几年前在中学时就已经了解过一些。
Others had never learned the first thing about it.
其他人从未了解过这方面的第一件事。
One boy reportedly thought the Holocaust meant the US bombing of Hiroshima in 1945.
据报道，一名男孩认为大屠杀意味着 1945 年美国对广岛的轰炸。
Within Castlemont, what happened on the field trip just became known as "the incident." And everybody was talking about it-- in class, outside of class.
在卡斯尔蒙特，实地考察中发生的事情被称为“事件”。每个人都在谈论它——课堂上、课外。
It was clear the administration had to respond publicly.
很明显，政府必须公开回应。
And the way they chose to respond was to say that these kids, who'd grown up in the rough, open flatlands, had seen so much violence-- seen people shot, had guns pulled on them-- that they were desensitized to it.
他们选择的回应方式是说，这些在崎岖、开阔的平原上长大的孩子，见过太多的暴力——看到人们被枪杀，有人用枪指着他们——所以他们对此麻木不仁。
One Jewish Castlemont teacher told The LA Times, "They're not Afro-American kids laughing at Jewish horror, they're the inner-city hip-hop generation desensitized to violence because they see it every day." The staff wasn't alone in pushing this theory.
卡斯蒙特的一位犹太教师告诉《洛杉矶时报》，“他们不是嘲笑犹太恐怖的非裔美国孩子，他们是对暴力不敏感的市中心嘻哈一代，因为他们每天都会看到暴力。”推动这一理论的并非只有工作人员。
It was a dominant explanation in the media.
这是媒体上的主流解释。
The whole story was told as a morality tale about black teens and what was wrong with them.
整个故事是关于黑人青少年以及他们的问题的道德故事。
But Tanzania basically said that doesn't make any sense.
但坦桑尼亚基本上说这没有任何意义。
I mean, yeah.
我的意思是，是的。
Yeah, they've seen a lot of violence, but when you see it, it's not a laughing matter.
是的，他们见过很多暴力，但是当你看到这些的时候，你会发现这并不是一件好笑的事情。
We're not numb to it.
我们对此并不麻木。
You know, we have empathy.
你知道，我们有同理心。
We have all that.
我们拥有这一切。
It's just when you're seeing it and you're looking at it, it's like, how do you cope with it?
只是当你看到它并且看着它时，你会想，你如何应对它？
And I remember watching the movie.
我记得看过这部电影。
And it's like, my emotions, I was like, how do I handle that?
就像，我的情绪，我想，我该如何处理？
And like you said, the one student was like, oh wow, that was cold.
就像你说的，那个学生说，哇，太冷了。
It was cold.
天气很冷。
Murdering someone for no reason is cold.
无缘无故地杀人是冷酷的。
That was an appropriate reaction.
这是一个适当的反应。
In fact, one of the school administrators said she was happy the students reacted that way because she knew it had affected them.
事实上，一名学校管理人员表示，她很高兴学生们有这样的反应，因为她知道这影响了他们。
After the newspaper articles, a barrage of angry phone calls flooded into Castlemont High School, many of them from the local Jewish community.
报纸文章发表后，一连串愤怒的电话涌入卡斯尔蒙特高中，其中许多来自当地犹太社区。
People were disappointed in the students and the faculty.
人们对学生和教师感到失望。
The high school administration decided it needed to nip this controversy in the bud.
高中管理部门决定有必要将这场争议消灭在萌芽状态。
Or they decided the kids needed to nip this controversy in the bud.
或者他们认为孩子们需要将这场争议消灭在萌芽状态。
So that same week as the field trip, by the end of the week, they organized a press conference, and the students were strongly encouraged to speak.
因此，在实地考察的同一周，到周末时，他们组织了一次新闻发布会，强烈鼓励学生发言。
Hi, I'm the student body president at Castlemont High, Kandi Stewart, and I would like to introduce our student speakers for today, which is Tracy Wilson--
大家好，我是卡斯尔蒙特高中的学生会主席坎迪·斯图尔特 (Kandi Stewart)，我想介绍一下今天的学生演讲者，她是特雷西·威尔逊 (Tracy Wilson)——
Four of the students from the field trip, who were also members of the student council, sat at a table in front of news cameras.
参加实地考察的四名学生同时也是学生会成员，他们坐在新闻摄像机前的一张桌子旁。
They were dressed professionally.
他们穿着专业。
Imagine a '90s era high school picture day.
想象一下 90 年代的高中拍照日。
17-year-old Nathaniel, who you heard earlier, was in a crisp white shirt and black necktie.
你之前听说过，17 岁的纳撒尼尔穿着一件挺括的白衬衫和黑色领带。
Tracy Wilson wore a dark navy dress with puffy shoulders and brass buttons, looking like someone much older than she was.
特雷西·威尔逊穿着一件深海军蓝连衣裙，肩膀浮肿，还有黄铜纽扣，看起来比她年长很多。
To the management and patrons at the Grand Lake Theatre and anyone else who was offended by our actions, we apologize for any discomfort and pain we may have caused you.
对于大湖剧院的管理层和顾客以及任何因我们的行为而冒犯的人，我们对我们可能给您带来的任何不适和痛苦表示歉意。
We are sorry for the disruption.
对于造成的干扰，我们深表歉意。
It was not our intention to offend anyone.
我们无意冒犯任何人。
We believe our teachers' hearts were in the right place.
我们相信我们老师的心是对的。
They wanted to teach us about the Holocaust.
他们想教我们有关大屠杀的知识。
Tracy and the other students took on all the blame.
特蕾西和其他学生承担了所有的责任。
Never once during this press conference did the principal or any of the teachers make a statement.
在这次新闻发布会上，校长或任何老师都没有发表任何声明。
We will never have a chance to make another first impression, but we have to rise above this.
我们永远没有机会给人留下另一个第一印象，但我们必须超越这一点。
Oh, that caused such mess.
哦，这造成了如此混乱。
B.
B.
A.
A.
Parker This is Tracy in the present day.
帕克 这是现在的特雷西。
This needed to be fixed.
这需要解决。
And if it takes an apology so we can get this to blow over, so be it.
如果我们需要道歉才能让这件事平息，那就这样吧。
Let's get the kids to apologize.
让我们让孩子们道歉。
But that didn't seem to calm the storm.
但这似乎并没有平息风暴。
For one thing, a lot more media picked up the story-- CNN, The Washington Post, The New York Times-- but the anger and reprimands just kept coming over the next few days and weeks.
一方面，更多的媒体报道了这个故事——CNN、华盛顿邮报、纽约时报——但在接下来的几天和几周里，愤怒和谴责不断出现。
In a letter to The LA Times, a boardmember of the Malibu Jewish Center and Synagogue wrote, quote, "I feel angry that anyone old enough to understand the meaning of man's inhumanity to man could act as callous as these kids apparently acted." Another reader wrote, "There is no excuse for what those kids did-- not lack of education, not lack of being prepared, nothing." One of the four students who apologized on camera received death threats in the mail.
马里布犹太中心和犹太教堂的一名董事会成员在给《洛杉矶时报》的一封信中写道，“我感到愤怒的是，任何年纪大到足以理解人类对人类不人道的含义的人都可能像这些孩子那样冷酷无情。”另一位读者写道：“这些孩子的所作所为没有任何借口——不是缺乏教育，不是缺乏准备，什么都不是。”四名在镜头前道歉的学生之一收到了邮件中的死亡威胁。
Anisa Rasheed taught English and African History at Castlemont at the time.
阿妮莎·拉希德当时在卡斯蒙特教授英国和非洲历史。
It seemed like it made it worse.
似乎这让情况变得更糟。
And some entities felt that the kids didn't apologize for what they felt they should be apologizing for.
一些实体认为孩子们没有为他们认为应该道歉的事情道歉。
What did they feel they should be apologizing for?
他们觉得自己应该道歉的是什么？
The kids were trying to apologize for their behavior, for the way that they behaved.
孩子们试图为他们的行为、他们的行为方式道歉。
But it felt like the greater powers that be, or the certain elements, they wanted the kids to apologize for their feeling and their thinking, that they should apologize and own being insensitive to the pain and suffering of Jewish people, and that they're sorry for that and they'll never do it again.
但感觉更大的权力，或者某些因素，他们希望孩子们为他们的感受和想法道歉，他们应该道歉并承认对犹太人的痛苦和苦难不敏感，他们对此感到抱歉，他们永远不会再这样做。
And now that they've been reprimanded, they're going to try to be better people.
既然他们受到了谴责，他们就会努力成为更好的人。
The kids didn't own being insensitive to the pain and suffering of the Jewish people.
孩子们并不承认自己对犹太人民的痛苦和苦难不敏感。
But to be fair, they hadn't witnessed the full spectrum of the pain and suffering of the Jewish people yet.
但公平地说，他们还没有目睹犹太人民遭受的全部痛苦和苦难。
There were still two more hours and 20 minutes of the film that they never got through-- the film that they hadn't been properly prepared for and that they hadn't been taught.
还有两个小时二十分钟的电影他们没有看完——这部电影他们没有做好充分的准备，也没有人教他们。
From their perspective, here's what happened.
从他们的角度来看，这就是发生的事情。
They misbehaved on a field trip, and they said they were sorry.
他们在实地考察中表现不佳，他们表示很抱歉。
And now they were getting death threats for not being sorry in the right way.
现在他们因为没有以正确的方式道歉而受到死亡威胁。
Now they were fed up and defensive.
现在他们厌倦了并采取防御措施。
They were tired of talking about how ignorant they were.
他们厌倦了谈论自己是多么无知。
They wanted to talk about something else.
他们想谈谈别的事情。
There had been a lot of discussion about what happened a while ago to a persecuted minority who wasn't them.
人们对不久前发生在非他们之外的受迫害少数群体身上的事情进行了很多讨论。
And so when some Jewish people offered to come to Castlemont to teach them about the Holocaust, they weren't in the mood for moral lectures on someone else's history.
因此，当一些犹太人主动提出来卡斯蒙特向他们传授大屠杀知识时，他们没有心情接受有关别人历史的道德讲座。
I don't want to hear anything-- no disrespect, but I don't want to hear anything about anybody else's Holocaust before I hear my own.
我不想听到任何事情——没有不尊重的意思，但在我听到自己的大屠杀之前，我不想听到任何关于其他人的大屠杀的事情。
This recording is from the Blacks and Jews documentary, which has a long section on Castlemont.
这段录音来自《黑人和犹太人》纪录片，其中有很长一段是关于卡斯尔蒙特的。
You cannot sit here and fill me with your knowledge until I have my own.
在我拥有自己的知识之前，你不能坐在这里向我灌输你的知识。
As black people, Latinos, and other races, Indians, they don't understand their own Holocaust.
作为黑人、拉丁裔和其他种族的印第安人，他们不了解自己的大屠杀。
We don't understand our own Holocaust, because I'm black and Indian.
我们不理解我们自己的大屠杀，因为我是黑人和印度人。
She's Latino.
她是拉丁裔。
She's Jamaican-Indian.
她是牙买加印度裔。
First, we need to learn about our own Holocaust, and then maybe we can understand your Holocaust.
首先，我们需要了解我们自己的大屠杀，然后也许我们才能理解你们的大屠杀。
What about the Trail of Tears, or slavery, or colonialism?
泪痕、奴隶制或殖民主义又如何呢？
They wanted to learn about that.
他们想了解这一点。
Anisa Rasheed felt the same way as her students.
阿妮莎·拉希德和她的学生也有同样的感受。
She's the English and History teacher, and she organized a day-long black history teach-in, or African Holocaust Day.
她是英语和历史老师，她组织了为期一天的黑人历史宣讲会，或非洲大屠杀日。
There were musicians and African dancers, lectures on ancient Egypt and Jim Crow.
有音乐家和非洲舞者，还有关于古埃及和种族隔离的讲座。
One guest teacher explained that racism has 54 components to it.
一位客座老师解释说，种族主义有 54 个组成部分。
Another, wearing a regal brown and gold dashiki, a kufi, with a leather-bound neck pouch, walked up and down the front of a classroom, commanding students' attention, pointing to placards listing the names of people who had been lynched in the South.
另一个穿着华丽的棕色和金色的大希奇（dashiki），一个库法人，带着一个皮革颈袋，在教室前面走来走去，吸引学生的注意力，指着标语牌，上面列出了在南方被私刑处决的人的名字。
Lynched-- ropes tied around their necks and hung from trees for 100 years-- hung from trees, all these names, black people.
私刑——绳子绑在他们的脖子上，挂在树上一百年——挂在树上，所有这些名字，都是黑人。
This is the Maafa.
这就是玛法。
Maafa is another word for the African Holocaust.
Maafa 是非洲大屠杀的另一种说法。
There were dozens of presentations about a variety of topics.
有数十场关于各种主题的演讲。
But in the movie Blacks and Jews, one of the students talked about one particular aspect of the history of slavery that stuck with her.
但在电影《黑人与犹太人》中，一名学生谈到了奴隶制历史中令她印象深刻的一个特定方面。
Well, I was in one of those classes, and what they were talking about was basically how slave ships were owned by Jews.
嗯，我参加了其中一门课程，他们谈论的基本上是犹太人如何拥有奴隶船。
And he showed us documents from where he had gotten out of Washington DC that stated that.
他向我们展示了他离开华盛顿特区时的文件，上面写着这一点。
And to me, that laid an impression upon me.
对我来说，这给我留下了深刻的印象。
I think it's safe to assume this particular fact stood out to this girl because Jews were suddenly a trending topic at her school.
我认为可以肯定的是，这个特殊的事实对这个女孩来说很突出，因为犹太人突然成为她学校的热门话题。
Laura Abrams was the school social worker at Castlemont at the time.
劳拉·艾布拉姆斯当时是卡斯蒙特的学校社会工作者。
A lot of kids really liked her.
很多孩子都非常喜欢她。
She was 25 years old then.
那年她25岁。
And for the first time, her Jewishness was a topic of interest.
她的犹太身份第一次成为人们感兴趣的话题。
This was all students wanted to talk about and asked me a lot of questions about.
这是学生们想谈论的话题，也问了我很多问题。
All of the sudden, it was like, oh, are you Jewish?
突然之间，就像，哦，你是犹太人吗？
And well, were you raised racist?
好吧，你是在种族主义背景下长大的吗？
And, did your family own slaves?
还有，你们家有奴隶吗？
Some kids told Laura they heard Jews were the most racist group.
一些孩子告诉劳拉，他们听说犹太人是最种族主义的群体。
It was hurtful.
这很伤人。
So though there wasn't any anti-Semitism among the students before the field trip, it seemed like a kind of anti-Semitism was growing at Castlemont High School.
因此，尽管在实地考察之前学生中没有任何反犹太主义，但卡斯蒙特高中似乎有一种反犹太主义正在增长。
Again, Tracy.
再说一遍，特雷西。
Tracy Wilson What I will say is, I remember just kids just being frustrated, and saying things, and not really having a clear understanding of what they're saying.
特雷西·威尔逊（Tracy Wilson）：我要说的是，我记得孩子们只是感到沮丧，然后说一些话，但并没有真正清楚地理解他们在说什么。
You know?
你知道？
Just saying it out of anger because they've heard somebody say it or read it somewhere.
只是出于愤怒才这么说，因为他们在某处听过某人说过或读过。
But it wasn't like-- you have to understand that a lot of the kids didn't really differentiate Jewish people from all white people, so they weren't necessarily saying, oh, all Jews are blah.
但这并不是——你必须明白，很多孩子并没有真正区分犹太人和所有白人，所以他们不一定会说，哦，所有犹太人都是废话。
No, they were just saying white people.
不，他们只是在说白人。
You know, white people this, or blah.
你知道，白人这个，或者废话。
And there wasn't any real correction.
并且没有任何真正的纠正。
And I felt like it was allowed.
我觉得这是被允许的。
And instead of it being used as a time of enlightenment, it just breeded more ignorance.
它并没有被用作启蒙时期，反而滋生了更多的无知。
A few months went by, and then some surprising news arrived at Castlemont.
几个月过去了，卡斯蒙特传来了一些令人惊讶的消息。
Stephen Spielberg was coming for a visit.
史蒂芬·斯皮尔伯格要来拜访。
He and the governor of California at the time, Pete Wilson, had been working on a way to incorporate Schindler's List in a larger curriculum for high schoolers about the Holocaust and slavery.
他和当时的加利福尼亚州州长皮特·威尔逊一直在研究如何将《辛德勒的名单》纳入针对高中生的有关大屠杀和奴隶制的更大课程中。
There'd be free screenings of the film and a study guide.
将会有免费的电影放映和学习指南。
These plans were already in the works before the field trip happened, but where better to make the announcement than Castlemont High School?
这些计划在实地考察之前就已经在酝酿之中，但还有哪里比卡斯尔蒙特高中更适合宣布这一消息呢？
So at first glance, this simply looked like another opportunity for Castlemont High School to put this whole thing to rest, or at least to put a positive spin on it.
因此，乍一看，这对卡斯尔蒙特高中来说似乎是另一个让整个事情平息的机会，或者至少给它带来积极的影响。
But as with every other turn in this Castlemont Schindler's saga, all it did was enrage pretty much everyone.
但就像卡斯尔蒙特·辛德勒传奇中的每一个转折一样，它所做的只是激怒了几乎所有人。
Days beforehand, a bunch of workers came to campus to carry out this whole beautification campaign.
几天前，一群工作人员来到校园进行整个美化活动。
Almost everybody we talked to made a point of mentioning it.
几乎所有与我们交谈过的人都特别提到了这一点。
Prettying up the place, and cutting the hedges, and painting stuff.
装饰这个地方，修剪树篱，粉刷东西。
Buildings got painted.
建筑物被粉刷了。
Landscaping got done.
景观美化完成了。
And then, of course, the trimming of the hedges and the painting, which I found to be very funny.
当然，还有修剪树篱和绘画，我觉得这很有趣。
Again, Tracy.
再说一遍，特雷西。
Tracy Wilson It just felt like this big cover-up.
特雷西·威尔逊（Tracy Wilson）感觉就像是一场大掩盖。
What do you mean by that?
你这是什么意思？
Tracy Wilson I mean, to be quite honest, you have the governor there, Mr. Pete Wilson, who was also "Mr Budget-Cut Governor." It would have been great for him to see what his cuts were doing to this urban community, but that's just my thought.
特雷西·威尔逊 我的意思是，说实话，那里有州长皮特·威尔逊先生，他也是“预算削减州长先生”。如果他能看到他的削减对这个城市社区的影响，那就太好了，但这只是我的想法。
It wasn't just her thought.
这不仅仅是她的想法。
The county in which Oakland sits voted overwhelmingly against Pete Wilson in the 1990 election.
奥克兰所在的县在 1990 年的选举中以压倒性多数投票反对皮特·威尔逊 (Pete Wilson)。
It was like 70/30 split.
就像 70/30 的比例一样。
Castlemont kids were black, Pacific Islander, and Latino.
卡斯尔蒙特的孩子有黑人、太平洋岛民和拉丁裔。
Governor Wilson championed one of the harshest anti-immigration laws in California's history, Proposition 187.
威尔逊州长支持加州历史上最严厉的反移民法之一——187 号提案。
Many Castlemont kids were low income.
许多卡斯尔蒙特的孩子都是低收入家庭。
Wilson said that welfare, quote, "seduces teenage girls into a life of poverty and encourages irresponsibility." He was also up for re-election.
威尔逊说，福利“引诱少女过上贫困的生活，并鼓励不负责任的行为。”他还准备连任。
Cicely Day was a senior at Castlemont back in '94.
94 年，西塞莉·戴 (Cicely Day) 是卡斯尔蒙特 (Castlemont) 的一名大四学生。
On the day of the assembly, she roamed the halls, hoping for a Spielberg sighting.
集会当天，她在大厅里闲逛，希望能看到斯皮尔伯格。
And I would run into-- like, all of these government people that worked for education was there.
我会遇到——所有这些为教育工作的政府人员都在那里。
And I would just be like, hi, how are you?
我会说，嗨，你好吗？
And they're like, oh, we're great.
他们就像，哦，我们很棒。
I'm like, wow, it's so amazing that you're here today.
我想，哇，你今天在这里真是太棒了。
Are you coming back?
你回来吗？
Oh, we're just here for the day.
哦，我们只是在这里待一天。
Oh, you're not going to come back?
哦，你不打算回来吗？
Because you sure figured out how to come today.
因为你今天肯定知道怎么来了。
You're not going to come back?
你不打算回来吗？
Because we need new books, and our lockers are broke, and the bleachers have holes.
因为我们需要新书，而我们的储物柜坏了，看台上也有洞。
Can you come back and make sure that gets done?
你能回来确保这件事完成吗？
And they would just look at me like, oh no, she didn't.
他们只是看着我，就像，哦不，她没有。
I'm like, oh, yes, I did.
我想，哦，是的，我做到了。
Oh, my.
哦，我的。
Cicely Day Yes, I did.
西西莉日 是的，我做到了。
And if I ran into anybody else who I knew had some influence, I was going to say the same thing.
如果我遇到任何我知道有一定影响力的人，我也会说同样的话。
The event itself was a total circus from the beginning.
活动本身从一开始就是一场马戏表演。
Not only were there all these government officials hanging around, and security, and the national press, but hundreds of protesters marched up and down the street outside the school, many of them from the Nation of Islam.
不仅有这些政府官员、安全人员和全国媒体在周围闲逛，还有数百名抗议者在学校外的街道上游行，其中许多人来自伊斯兰国家组织。
Give the truth to the youth.
把真相告诉年轻人。
Give the truth to the youth.
把真相告诉年轻人。
Give the truth to the youth.
把真相告诉年轻人。
Let's talk about the Black Holocaust.
我们来谈谈黑色大屠杀。
Let's talk about the Black Holocaust.
我们来谈谈黑色大屠杀。
One of the protesters was a little more specific.
一名抗议者的说法更具体一些。
A Zionist Jew-- Steven Spielberg is a Zionist Jew.
犹太复国主义犹太人——史蒂文·斯皮尔伯格是犹太复国主义犹太人。
They waved signs around that spanned from the pointed "How can a Zionist Jew teach us about racism and oppression?" to the extremely pointed "Zionist Jews are the new Nazis." Remember, this all began with a field trip to teach kids tolerance.
他们挥舞着标语，上面写着“犹太复国主义犹太人如何教导我们有关种族主义和压迫的知识？”到极其尖锐的“犹太复国主义犹太人是新纳粹分子”。请记住，这一切都始于一次教导孩子们宽容的实地考察。
Aaron Grumet was a geometry teacher at Castlemont and had been one of the teachers on the original field trip.
亚伦·格鲁梅特 (Aaron Grumet) 是卡斯尔蒙特的几何老师，也是最初实地考察的老师之一。
By the time I'd gotten over to the auditorium, it was overflowing.
当我到达礼堂时，礼堂已经挤满了人。
And a lot of the students couldn't even get in because the auditorium was full.
很多学生甚至无法进入，因为礼堂已经满了。
And what I remember was that all the politicians and dignitaries were there and got their seats in the front.
我记得的是，所有的政治家和政要都在场，并坐在前面的座位上。
And a lot of the students and faculty never got in.
许多学生和教师从未进入过。
And I remember thinking, wow, this is just nuts, you know?
我记得我当时想，哇，这太疯狂了，你知道吗？
Mr. Steven Spielberg and the Governor of the State of California.
史蒂文·斯皮尔伯格先生与加利福尼亚州州长。
Let's go-- stand up, ladies and gentlemen.
女士们先生们，让我们起立。
The governor of the state of California is in the building.
加利福尼亚州州长就在大楼里。
It was a program befitting of a head of state and a Hollywood icon.
这是一个适合国家元首和好莱坞偶像的节目。
There were performances from the students, including a monologue that started off, "Dear Mr. President, I am a woman with three children and no food to eat." Governor Wilson gave a pretty formal recitation about his Holocaust education initiative.
学生们进行了表演，其中包括一段独白，开头是：“亲爱的总统先生，我是一个带着三个孩子、没有食物吃的女人。”威尔逊州长非常正式地阐述了他的大屠杀教育倡议。
And then, fully aware of his place on the food chain, he handed the mic over to the man of the hour.
然后，他充分意识到自己在食物链中的地位，将麦克风交给了风云人物。
Ladies and gentlemen, the students of Castlemont High School, it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you a man who is helping and who has accomplished great things for film, for education, and for tolerance-- Mr. Steven Spielberg.
女士们、先生们，卡斯尔蒙特高中的学生们，我非常高兴地向你们介绍一位为电影、教育和宽容做出贡献并取得巨大成就的人——史蒂文·斯皮尔伯格先生。
[APPLAUSE] Steven Spielberg Instead of sitting up here on the stage like a performer, I'd like to be right down there in the center, among all of you.
[掌声] 史蒂文·斯皮尔伯格 我不想像一个表演者一样坐在舞台上，而是想坐在中间，在你们所有人中间。
[APPLAUSE] I'd also like to acknowledge the fact that I believe that Castlemont High School has received a very bad rap for what happened that day on Martin Luther King Day.
[掌声]我还想承认这样一个事实：我相信卡斯尔蒙特高中因马丁·路德·金纪念日那天发生的事情而受到了非常糟糕的批评。
[APPLAUSE] And I also think it's very important that that incident that happened-- and by the way, I was thrown out of Ben-Hur when I was a kid for talking, so you know, I kind of know what that was like, I think.
[掌声]我也认为发生的那件事非常重要——顺便说一句，当我还是个孩子的时候，我因为说话而被赶出了宾虚，所以你知道，我想我有点知道那是什么感觉。
I think we have to put this under the heading of the privileges of youth.
我认为我们必须将其置于青年特权的标题下。
And I absolutely, when I heard about this incident--
当我听说这件事时，我绝对——
He was just so cool.
他真是太酷了。
B.
B.
A.
A.
Parker Again, this is Tracy.
帕克 再说一次，这是特雷西。
He said that he understood what happened, and that he didn't blame us, and that we were just kids, and that we weren't anti-Semitic, and that the situation just in and of itself was just really, really bad.
他说他理解发生了什么，他没有责怪我们，我们只是孩子，我们不是反犹太主义者，情况本身真的非常非常糟糕。
How did it feel to hear that from an adult?
从一个成年人口中听到这样的话感觉如何？
I mean, it felt great.
我的意思是，感觉很棒。
And the fact that it was him, it was even better, you know?
事实上，这是他，那就更好了，你知道吗？
And for him to acknowledge what happened but not place that type of blame on us was great.
对于他来说，承认发生了什么事，但没有把这种责任归咎于我们，这真是太好了。
It gave us-- it gave me relief.
它给了我们——它给了我解脱。
I was like, wow.
我当时想，哇。
I will see all his movies.
我会看他所有的电影。
It was the first time she felt like someone-- an adult-- was publicly coming to their defense-- wasn't labeling them, didn't accuse them, or condescend towards them, or try to save them.
这是她第一次感觉到有人——一个成年人——公开为他们辩护——没有给他们贴上标签，没有指责他们，或者居高临下地对待他们，或者试图拯救他们。
The students of Castlemont had been thrust into a dizzying adult world of bigotry and bylines.
卡斯尔蒙特的学生们被推入了一个充满偏见和署名的令人眼花缭乱的成人世界。
And Spielberg did something no one else in the auditorium thought to do, something that students, counter-intuitively, had been yearning for the whole time-- you talk to them like they were kids.
斯皮尔伯格做了一件礼堂里其他人都没有想到的事情，与直觉相反，学生们一直渴望做的事情——你像他们是孩子一样跟他们说话。
And then it was over.
然后就结束了。
Finally, the kids and the teachers could get back to their studies, final exams, preparing for graduation.
最后，孩子们和老师们可以回去学习、期末考试、准备毕业了。
Or so they thought.
或者说他们是这么认为的。
One afternoon two weeks later, Steven Spielberg came back.
两周后的一天下午，史蒂文·斯皮尔伯格回来了。
This time, it was unannounced-- no media.
这一次，它是未经宣布的——没有媒体。
The kids from the field trip and the chaperones gathered in the school library.
实地考察的孩子们和陪同人员聚集在学校图书馆。
Tanzania was there.
坦桑尼亚就在那里。
And I remember somebody-- I think one of the teachers was recording it.
我记得有人——我想其中一位老师正在录制它。
And he asked him to put the camera away.
并要求他把相机收起来。
Yeah.
是的。
And the teacher respectfully put it away.
老师恭敬地收了起来。
When Spielberg tells you to do something, you do it.
当斯皮尔伯格告诉你做某事时，你就去做。
You do it.
你做吧。
Right.
正确的。
B.
B.
A.
A.
Parker Aaron Grumet, the math teacher, says it was all very hush-hush.
数学老师帕克·亚伦·格鲁梅特 (Parker Aaron Grumet) 表示，这一切都非常秘密。
Spielberg said he wanted it to be just them-- no hard feelings, no agenda.
斯皮尔伯格说他希望只有他们——没有怨恨，没有议程。
And he opened things up to the floor.
他把东西打开到地板上。
And I remember he started talking, asking them questions.
我记得他开始说话，问他们问题。
And one of them asked why the Jewish people didn't just pretend that they were German so as not to be killed.
其中一位问为什么犹太人不假装自己是德国人以免被杀害。
That's a good question.
这是个好问题。
Aaron Grumet It's a very good question.
亚伦·格鲁梅特：这是一个非常好的问题。
And if you're a person of different color, it's very difficult for you to pretend you're another culture.
如果你是一个不同肤色的人，你就很难假装自己是另一种文化。
You can't pretend you're German.
你不能假装自己是德国人。
You can't pretend you're white.
你不能假装自己是白人。
So it was a very, very poignant question on these 14-year-old kids.
所以对于这些 14 岁的孩子来说，这是一个非常非常尖锐的问题。
One of the kids asked Spielberg, have you ever made a movie about the Black Holocaust, about slavery?
其中一个孩子问斯皮尔伯格，你拍过一部关于黑人大屠杀、奴隶制的电影吗？
He said no. The kid inquired, well, why not?
他说不。孩子问，那为什么不呢？
And Spielberg said, well, maybe I will.
斯皮尔伯格说，好吧，也许我会的。
Three years later, he released Amistad, about a slave ship.
三年后，他发布了关于一艘奴隶船的阿米斯塔德。
In an email, Steven Spielberg confirmed that one of the reasons he decided to make that film was that student's question.
史蒂文·斯皮尔伯格在一封电子邮件中证实，他决定制作这部电影的原因之一就是那位学生的问题。
The program to teach Schindler's List to high school students spread across the country.
向高中生教授《辛德勒名单》的项目遍布全国。
Two years after the Castlemont kids got kicked out of the movie theater, over two million public high school students had seen Schindler's List, and many more since then, including me.
卡斯尔蒙特家的孩子们被赶出电影院两年后，超过两百万公立高中生看过《辛德勒的名单》，从那时起，还有更多的人看过《辛德勒的名单》，其中包括我。
I saw Schindler's List twice in school by my 15th birthday.
15 岁生日时，我在学校看了两遍《辛德勒的名单》。
We also read Night by Elie Wiesel and The Diary of Anne Frank and were taken to the Holocaust Museum in DC.
我们还阅读了埃利·维塞尔的《夜》和《安妮·弗兰克日记》，并被带到了华盛顿的大屠杀博物馆。
They never showed us Amistad in public school in Baltimore.
他们从未向我们展示过巴尔的摩公立学校的Amistad。
The Castlemont kids were the test case for all of this.
卡斯尔蒙特的孩子们就是这一切的测试案例。
They eventually did learn something about this one event in Jewish history.
他们最终确实了解到了犹太历史上这一事件的一些情况。
They learned other things, too.
他们还学到了其他东西。
They learned how white people read them and their behavior and how quickly they get labeled.
他们了解白人如何阅读它们、他们的行为以及他们被贴上标签的速度有多快。
It's something lots of kids of color learn in lots of ways, but these kids learned it all of a sudden in a really public way.
这是很多有色人种的孩子通过多种方式学到的东西，但这些孩子突然以一种非常公开的方式学到了它。
They also learned how to steel yourself against all of that.
他们还学会了如何让自己坚强地应对这一切。
One of the Castlemont kids, who got a death threat in the mail, later hung it on her dorm room wall for motivation.
卡斯尔蒙特的一名孩子在邮件中收到了死亡威胁，后来她把它挂在宿舍墙上以获取动力。
They learned they could push back.
他们了解到他们可以反击。
You can see that happening in one of my favorite moments from that assembly with the governor and Spielberg.
你可以看到这发生在我最喜欢的时刻之一，那就是与州长和斯皮尔伯格的会面。
Just a handful of kids were allowed to ask questions, and the questions were vetted and approved by the adults.
只有少数孩子被允许提出问题，这些问题都经过大人的审查和批准。
And then the senior class president, Kandi Stewart, went off script.
然后高级班长坎迪·斯图尔特(Kandi Stewart) 就脱离了剧本。
Here's what she said to the governor of California.
这是她对加利福尼亚州州长说的话。
This is to Governor Wilson.
这是写给威尔逊州长的。
I see your visit to Oakland, a city plagued with poverty, from different views.
我从不同的角度看待你对奥克兰这座饱受贫困困扰的城市的访问。
I see it as a failing governor's publicity stunt that enables him to portray--
我认为这是一个失败的州长的宣传噱头，使他能够描绘——
[APPLAUSE] wait a minute-- that enables him to portray himself as a caring politician, embracing the poor, and smothering them with empty promises, coincidentally close to election time.
[掌声]等一下——这使他能够将自己描绘成一个有爱心的政治家，拥抱穷人，并用空洞的承诺来压制他们，而巧合的是临近选举时间。
But I also see-- wait a minute-- but I also see the entire political fiasco as an opportunity to vent the anger, and the spite, and the animosity I feel toward your entire time in office.
但我也看到——等一下——但我也认为整个政治惨败是一个发泄愤怒、怨恨和我对你整个执政期间的敌意的机会。
I mean, I want to know was your main purpose in portraying yourself through the streets of my city where you have cut welfare, education, and many young futures, like mine--
我的意思是，我想知道你在我城市的街道上描绘自己的主要目的是什么，你在那里削减了福利、教育和许多像我一样的年轻人的未来——
[APPLAUSE] B.
[鼓掌] B.
A.
A.
Parker Kandi got in trouble for this-- was reprimanded by the principal, vilified in letters to the editor, just like the kids had been before.
帕克·坎迪因此惹上了麻烦——被校长训斥，在给编辑的信中诽谤，就像孩子们以前经历过的那样。
But this time, it was for something she really cared about.
但这一次，是为了她真正在乎的事情。
Governor Wilson and his policies seemed like a direct threat to things that really mattered to her.
威尔逊州长和他的政策似乎对她真正重要的事情构成了直接威胁。
Well, I won't count on your vote.
好吧，我不会指望你的投票。
Let me just say that--
我只想说——
Publicly, throughout the entire Schindler's debacle, it seemed like these stackable burdens were resting squarely on the shoulders of the students.
在公开场合，在整个辛德勒的灾难中，这些沉重的负担似乎完全落在了学生们的肩上。
The teachers seemed to come to an agreement that it was the kids' incident, and therefore, the kids were the ones that needed to step out in front of it.
老师们似乎一致认为，这是孩子们的事件，因此，孩子们才是需要站出来的人。
And Kandi Stewart seemed to be saying, I'll step in front of it.
坎迪·斯图尔特似乎在说，我会走到它前面。
I'll step right in front of it.
我会走到它前面。
B.A.
学士
Parker in New York City.
帕克在纽约。
Coming up, a memorial you didn't want to visit dedicated to an event you wish never happened-- what you can learn from that.
即将到来，一座你不想参观的纪念馆专门纪念一件你希望从未发生过的事件——你可以从中学到什么。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program is about what happens when you come across some historical facts presented by people who want you to learn those facts, either from a marker on the side of the road, or maybe a film, or in the case of this next act, a museum.
今天的节目是关于当你遇到一些历史事实时会发生什么，这些历史事实是由那些希望你了解这些事实的人呈现的，无论是从路边的标记，或者可能是一部电影，或者在下一幕的情况下，博物馆。
Sometimes, what you get from that experience is very different from what is intended, which brings us to Act Two of our program.
有时，你从这种经历中得到的东西与预期的东西非常不同，这让我们进入了我们计划的第二幕。
Act Two, Exit Through the Gift Shop.
第二幕，从礼品店退出。
Steve Kandell was an editor at Buzzfeed back in 2014 when the 9/11 Memorial Museum opened in New York City.
2014 年 9/11 纪念博物馆在纽约开幕时，史蒂夫·坎德尔 (Steve Kandell) 曾是 Buzzfeed 的编辑。
His sister, Shari, had died in the Twin Towers.
他的妹妹莎莉（Shari）死在双子塔里。
And he wrote this for Buzzfeed back when the museum opened.
博物馆开放时，他为 Buzzfeed 写了这篇文章。
Quick warning if you're listening with little kids.
如果您正在和小孩子一起听，请快速警告。
This piece goes into some detail about 9/11.
这篇文章详细介绍了 9/11。
Also, here in the podcast, there are a couple curse words we have an un-beeped.
另外，在播客中，有一些咒语我们没有听到。
If you prefer a beeped version of our show, you can find that on our website.
如果您喜欢我们节目的嘟嘟声版本，您可以在我们的网站上找到。
Here's Steve Kandell.
请听史蒂夫·坎德尔的报道。
In the chaotic last months of 2001, my father wrote letters to newspapers asking simply that the press stop calling his daughter a hero.
在 2001 年混乱的最后几个月里，我父亲写信给报纸，只是要求媒体停止称他的女儿为英雄。
The heroes ran into the buildings.
英雄们跑进了建筑物。
She was just a person who happened to have gotten to work a little early on a Tuesday morning.
她只是一个碰巧在周二早上早点上班的人。
And that was horrible and heartbreaking and difficult enough without the extra weight.
如果没有额外的重量，那真是太可怕了、令人心碎、也够困难的了。
On September 21, the day that would have been my sister's 28th birthday, my father gave a eulogy to this effect at her memorial.
9 月 21 日，也就是我姐姐 28 岁生日的那天，我父亲在她的追悼会上为此致了悼词。
In the days and years after, this was less of a mantra than our only way forward, to find a way to separate what happened from what happened to us.
在之后的日子里，几年后，这不再是一句咒语，而是我们前进的唯一道路，找到一种方法将发生的事情与发生在我们身上的事情分开。
We declined participation in most of the ceremonies and pageantry in favor of figuring out for ourselves our family's new geometry, just like any family that has suffered a loss.
我们拒绝参加大多数仪式和庆典，而是像任何遭受损失的家庭一样，为自己找出我们家庭的新几何结构。
Other families feel the opposite.
其他家庭的感受则相反。
The world's attention validated the size of their grief.
全世界的关注证实了他们悲伤的程度。
We understood this and respected it.
我们理解并尊重这一点。
And we just chose another, quieter way-- at least until my father got sick and couldn't stop blurting it out over and over to strangers in parking lots.
我们只是选择了另一种更安静的方式——至少直到我父亲生病了，并且不停地在停车场里向陌生人脱口而出。
Which is why the corner of Greenwich and Liberty on this bright Sunday afternoon, surrounded by a riot of mid-spring tourists with winkled maps and exposed knees, taking photos of cranes, is the very last place I should be.
这就是为什么在这个阳光明媚的周日下午，格林威治和自由街的角落里，周围都是仲春游客，他们拿着皱巴巴的地图，露出膝盖，为起重机拍照，这是我最不应该去的地方。
I am allowed to enter the 9/11 museum a few days before the grand opening for the general public, but why would I want that?
我被允许在 9/11 博物馆向公众盛大开幕前几天进入，但我为什么要这样呢？
Why would I accept an invitation to a $700 million refutation of everything we tried to practice, a gleaming monument to what happened, not what happened to us?
为什么我会接受一个价值 7 亿美元的邀请来驳斥我们试图实践的一切，一座闪闪发光的纪念碑，记录着发生过的事情，而不是发生在我们身上的事情？
But something snapped while reading about the gift shop.
但在阅读有关礼品店的信息时，事情突然发生了变化。
I didn't want to duck and hide, I wanted to run straight into the absurdity and horror and feel every bit of the righteous indignation and come out the other side raw.
我不想躲藏，我想直接冲进荒谬和恐怖之中，感受每一丝正义的愤慨，然后赤裸裸地走出来。
I call my mother to tell her I'm doing this, but that she shouldn't come.
我打电话给妈妈，告诉她我正在这样做，但她不应该来。
And she doesn't disagree.
她也不反对。
I find the ticket booth, exhale deeply, and say the magic words.
我找到售票处，深深地呼了一口气，说出了那句神奇的话。
After the TSA-style security check, complete with body scan, there's a dark corridor with word clouds and photographs projected onto tower-like pillars, while disembodied voices tell snippets of stories about the morning-- an overture warning us about the symphony ahead.
经过美国运输安全管理局（TSA）式的安全检查，并进行全身扫描后，出现在一条黑暗的走廊上，塔状的柱子上投射着文字云和照片，而无形的声音则讲述着早晨的故事片段——这是警告我们前方交响乐的序曲。
We were eased into it in a sense, lowered into the maw down a ramp along the original foundation of the towers-- girders and rubble and broken staircases among the ruins, an impossibly mangled hook-and-ladder truck, showroom parked.
从某种意义上说，我们很轻松地进入了它，沿着塔楼原来的基础的坡道下降到了胃里——废墟中的大梁、瓦砾和破碎的楼梯，一辆不可思议地破损的钩梯卡车，陈列室停在那里。
The crowded memorial hall is lined with photos of everyone who died and touchscreen consoles that call up their obituaries.
拥挤的纪念馆里摆满了所有死者的照片，触摸屏控制台上调出了他们的讣告。
I find my sister as she has been for 12 and 1/2 years and will be forever-- enshrined alphabetically before Howard Lee Kane.
我找到了我的妹妹，她已经 12 又 1/2 年了，而且将永远如此——按字母顺序排列在霍华德·李·凯恩之前。
The names are read aloud on a loop in the adjacent darkened atrium lined with benches.
相邻的黑暗中庭里摆满了长凳，人们在循环中大声朗读这些名字。
My sister's profile has incorrect information in it that we'd never signed off on or even seen.
我姐姐的个人资料中有不正确的信息，我们从未签署过，甚至从未见过。
And the annoyance is tempered by the realization that non-participation in the pageantry has its drawbacks.
认识到不参加盛典有它的缺点，这种烦恼也得到了缓解。
It also occurs to me that I am the only person here alone.
我还突然想到，这里只有我一个人。
The main attraction is through a revolving door, a minute-by-minute recreation of the morning and its aftermath, from video of Matt Lauer's first distracted, furrowed brow at the end of an interview with some author on The Today Show, and on and on.
主要的吸引力在于通过一扇旋转门，从马特·劳尔在《今日秀》采访某位作家的采访结束时第一次心烦意乱、皱起眉头的视频开始，一分钟一分钟地重现早上及其后果，等等。
This part is the haunted house.
这部分就是鬼屋。
I wander to a tucked away corner to find a giant photo of people leaping from the burning building, and I yell, "Fuck!" like someone jumped out and grabbed me.
我徘徊到一个隐蔽的角落，发现一张巨大的照片，照片上人们从着火的大楼里跳下来，我大喊：“操！”就像有人跳出来抓住了我。
No one bats an eye.
没有人眨一下眼睛。
There's a multimedia presentation depicting how, precisely, the towers collapsed.
有一个多媒体演示准确地描述了双塔是如何倒塌的。
A wing for Pennsylvania and the Pentagon, tape loops of survivors telling how they got out, smoke and fire and ash and twisted metal and the husk of an ambulance.
宾夕法尼亚州和五角大楼的侧翼，幸存者讲述他们如何逃生的磁带，烟雾、火焰、灰烬、扭曲的金属和救护车的外壳。
Tattered flags, handwritten pleas for help, missing persons flyers, screams.
破烂的旗帜、手写的求助信、失踪人员传单、尖叫声。
Dusty, ownerless Topsiders encased in glass.
布满灰尘、无主的顶层建筑被玻璃包裹着。
A soot-coated bike rack, as it was found.
被发现时，一个被烟灰覆盖的自行车架。
Countless personal artifacts artfully destroyed.
无数的个人文物被巧妙地摧毁。
The president addressing the nation and vowing steely, determined revenge.
总统向全国发表讲话，并发誓要进行钢铁般、坚决的报复。
Hallways dedicated to tracing the hijackers' timeline, al-Qaeda's rise, and a video wall with people like Hillary Clinton laying out the justification for the unending war on terror, tying grief cannily to political ideology in a way that might seem crass if I were able to process it all with a clear head.
走廊上专门追踪劫机者的时间线、基地组织的崛起，还有一面视频墙，墙上挂满了希拉里·克林顿(Hillary Clinton)等人，为无休止的反恐战争阐述了理由，巧妙地将悲伤与政治意识形态联系在一起，如果我能够头脑清醒地处理这一切，这种方式可能会显得很愚蠢。
There is no way out until the end.
不到最后一刻，没有退路。
And it's all so numbing that maybe this is the whole point.
这一切是如此令人麻木，也许这就是重点。
The exhibition starts with one shining, unfathomably terrible morning and winds up as all of our lives, as banal and constant as laundry, bottomless.
展览从一个光辉灿烂、极其可怕的早晨开始，到了我们所有人的生活结束，就像洗衣房一样平庸而永恒，深不见底。
I can feel the sweat that went into making this not seem tacky, of wanting to show respect, but also wanting to show every last bit of carnage and visceral whomp to justify the $24 price of admission.
我能感觉到为了让这一切看起来不俗气而付出的汗水，想要表达尊重，但也想要展示每一点屠杀和内心的痛苦，以证明 24 美元的入场费是合理的。
The fact that everyone else here today has VIP status grimly similar to mine is the lone saving grace.
事实上，今天在座的其他人都拥有与我极其相似的 VIP 身份，这是唯一的可取之处。
The prospect of experiencing this stroll down Waking Nightmare Lane with tuned-out schoolkids or spectacle-seekers would be too much.
与那些心不在焉的小学生或寻求奇观的人一起在醒来的噩梦巷漫步的可能性太大了。
There are FDNY T-shirts and search-and-rescue sweatshirts.
其中有 FDNY T 恤和搜救运动衫。
And no one quite makes eye contact with anyone else, and that's just fine.
没有人会与其他人进行眼神交流，这很好。
I think now of every war memorial I ever yawned through on a class trip, how someone else's past horror was my vacant diversion.
现在，我想起班级旅行中我打哈欠穿过的每一座战争纪念馆，别人过去的恐怖是如何成为我空虚的消遣的。
And maybe I learned something, but I didn't feel anything.
也许我学到了一些东西，但我没有任何感觉。
Everyone should have a museum dedicated to the worst day of their life and be forced to attend it with a bunch of tourists from Denmark-- annotated divorce papers blown up and mounted, interactive exhibits detailing how your mom's last round of chemo didn't take, souvenir T-shirts emblazoned with your best friend's last words before the car crash.
每个人都应该有一个博物馆，专门纪念他们生命中最糟糕的一天，并被迫和一群来自丹麦的游客一起参观——带注释的离婚文件被放大并安装起来，互动展览详细说明你妈妈最后一轮化疗是如何失败的，纪念T恤上印有你最好的朋友在车祸前的最后一句话。
And you should have to see for yourself how little your pain matters to a family of five who just need to get some food before the kids melt down.
你应该亲眼看看你的痛苦对于一个五口之家来说有多么重要，他们只需要在孩子们崩溃之前得到一些食物。
Or maybe worse, watch that pain be co-opted by people who want, for whatever reason, to feel that connection so acutely.
或者更糟糕的是，看着痛苦被那些出于某种原因想要如此敏锐地感受到这种联系的人所吸收。
There are three recording booths for people to tell their own stories of the day or remembrances of loved ones who were lost.
三个录音室可供人们讲述自己当天的故事或对失去亲人的纪念。
A man exits one of the confessionals, sees me, shakes his head and says, "Amazing idea." I enter, sit down, and stare at the screen and say Shari's name and how I was 3,000 miles away that morning and didn't even know she was working there until I got the call at 6:00 AM, and that I wish I had seen her more in those last years and remembered more about her and had something better prepared to say, and that I wished my kids would have known her, and that she'd think it's pretty fucking weird that I'm here talking about her to an invisible camera in the bowels of a museum dedicated to the fact that she was killed by an airplane while sitting at her desk.
一个男人从一间忏悔室出来，看到我，摇摇头说：“好主意。”我走进去，坐下来，盯着屏幕，说出莎莉的名字，以及那天早上我是如何在 3,000 英里之外的，直到早上 6:00 接到电话，我什至不知道她在那里工作，我希望在过去的几年里能更多地见到她，记住更多关于她的事情，并有更好的准备要说的话，我希望我的孩子们能够认识她，她会认为我在这里和一个人谈论她真是太奇怪了。博物馆内部的隐形摄像机专门记录了她坐在办公桌前被飞机炸死的事实。
And at some point, the timer is up.
在某个时刻，计时器到了。
There is one small room on the main floor of the museum that is not, in fact, operated by the museum itself and is not available even to many of the families.
博物馆主层有一个小房间，实际上不是由博物馆本身运营的，甚至许多家庭也无法使用。
Tucked away off to the side, behind an unmarked door, it is overseen by the medical examiner's office.
它藏在旁边一扇没有标记的门后面，由法医办公室监管。
This is called the reflection room.
这称为反思室。
To get past the door, one must register for an appointment.
要进门，必须进行预约登记。
I have not done this, but I present a case number, which means the official from the medical examiner's office can indeed let me through.
我没有这样做，但我提供了案件编号，这意味着法医办公室的官员确实可以让我通过。
He tells me my family is welcome whenever the museum is open and leads me to a cramped, dark space but does not follow.
他告诉我，每当博物馆开放时，我的家人都会受到欢迎，并带我到一个狭窄、黑暗的空间，但他没有跟随。
A box of tissues sits on a wooden bench, and a family huddle silently looking through a window.
木凳上放着一盒纸巾，一家人挤在一起静静地透过窗户往外看。
They leave almost instantly, and I can now see what is on the other side of the window-- aisles of dark-stained wood cabinets of rosewood or teak, maybe, floor to ceiling, lit by small, overhead spotlights.
他们几乎立刻就离开了，我现在可以看到窗户另一边的东西——深色的红木或柚木木柜的过道，也许从地板到天花板，被小型的头顶聚光灯照亮。
I let out a loud, sharp laugh.
我发出一声响亮而尖锐的笑声。
Inside these cabinets are the remains that, after nearly 13 years of the most rigorous testing known to man, have not been matched to the DNA of any of the victims.
这些柜子里的遗骸经过近 13 年人类已知的最严格的测试，尚未与任何遇难者的 DNA 进行匹配。
It's just drawers and drawers full of stuff.
只是抽屉和抽屉里装满了东西。
This chamber is meant to be a sanctuary, but all there is to see here are armoires packed with carefully-label bags of flesh too ruined and desiccated even for science.
这个房间本来是一个避难所，但这里能看到的只是衣橱，里面装满了贴有标签的肉袋，这些肉袋已经被毁坏和干燥，甚至无法用于科学研究。
My sister is among the many for whom there have been no remains recovered whatsoever-- vaporized.
我的妹妹就是众多人中的一员，他们的遗体都没有找到——已经蒸发了。
So there's no grave to visit.
所以没有坟墓可以参观。
There never will be-- just this theatrically lit Ikea warehouse behind a pane of glass.
永远不会有——只有这个玻璃后面的宜家仓库，灯光璀璨，充满戏剧性。
The presence of the tomb has been a point of contention among families who want more from a final resting place than the basement of this museum of unnatural history.
这座坟墓的存在一直是一些家庭争论的焦点，他们希望从这座非自然历史博物馆的地下室得到更多的最终安息之地。
I don't know how to feel about the matter because to do so would require any of this making even a bit of sense.
我不知道如何看待这件事，因为要做到这一点就需要让这一切变得有意义。
It's dumb, sure, but what could possibly be less dumb?
这确实很愚蠢，但是还有什么比这更愚蠢的呢？
Where is the right place to store pounds of unidentifiable human tissue so that future generations can pay their respects?
哪里才是存放大量无法识别的人体组织以便子孙后代瞻仰的正确地点？
By the time I finally reach the gift shop, the indignation I've been counting on just isn't there.
当我最终到达礼品店时，我一直指望的愤怒已经不存在了。
I stare at the $39 hoodies, and the rescue vests for dogs, and the earrings, and the scarves, and the United We Stand wool blankets waiting for that rush, and can't muster so much as a sigh.
我盯着 39 美元的连帽衫、狗狗救援背心、耳环、围巾，还有 United We Stand 的羊毛毯，等待着那股热潮，却无法鼓起勇气。
The events of the day have already been exploited and sold in ways previously incomprehensible.
当天发生的事件已经以以前无法理解的方式被利用和出售。
Why get mad at a commemorative T-shirt now?
为什么现在要对一件纪念T恤生气呢？
This tchotchke store, this building, this experience is nothing more than a logical endpoint for our most reliably commodifiable national tragedy.
这家小玩意商店、这栋建筑、这种体验只不过是我们最可靠的可商品化国家悲剧的逻辑终点。
If you want to bring a coffee table book full of photos of cadaver dogs sniffing through smoking rubble back home to wherever you're from, hey, that's great.
如果你想带一本咖啡桌上的书，里面装满了尸狗在冒烟的瓦砾中嗅来嗅去的照片，无论你来自哪里，嘿，那太好了。
This is America.
这是美国。
They hate our freedom to buy what we want.
他们讨厌我们购买我们想要的东西的自由。
And people will find moments of grace or enlightenment or even peace coming here.
人们会在这里发现恩典、启蒙甚至平安的时刻。
I don't need to be one of them.
我不需要成为他们中的一员。
I'll probably bring my kids one day, once I realize I won't have the words to explain.
有一天我可能会带我的孩子来，一旦我意识到我无法用言语来解释。
It can be of use.
是可以用的。
It's fine.
没关系。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Steve Kandell is a writer and editor in New York.
史蒂夫·坎德尔是纽约的作家和编辑。
Our program was produced today by Nadia Reiman and Chana Joffe-Walt.
今天我们的节目由 Nadia Reiman 和 Chana Joffe-Walt 制作。
Our program was put together by Ben Calhoun, Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Whitney Dangerfield, Michelle Harris, Seth Lind, Alvin Melathe, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
我们的节目由 Ben Calhoun、Zoe Chace、Sean Cole、Whitney Dangerfield、Michelle Harris、Seth Lind、Alvin Melathe、Lilly Sullivan、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Julie Whitaker 和 Diane Wu 共同制作。
Our senior producer is Brian Reed.
我们的高级制片人是布莱恩·里德。
Our managing editor is Susan Burton.
我们的总编辑是苏珊·伯顿。
Mixing help today from Stowe Nelson Katherine Rae Mondo and Sharif Youssef.
今天由 Stowe Nelson Katherine Rae Mondo 和 Sharif Youssef 提供混音帮助。
Special thanks today to Keeli Shaw, Sundar Ramun, Kathryn Braund, Scotty Kirkland, Dr. Deidra Suwanee Dees, Guy Hubbs, Jason Edward Black, Christopher D.
今天特别感谢 Keeli Shaw、Sundar Ramun、Kathryn Braund、Scotty Kirkland、Deidra Suwanee Dees 博士、Guy Hubbs、Jason Edward Black、Christopher D.
Haveman, Will Dahlberg, Tilia Wilton-Johnson , Otto Grimwood , Brandi Mack, Rose Thornwell, Jerry Wolfe, Mark Rader, Roy Arce, Jay Shilliday, Sam Greenspan, and Lauren Elliott at Amblin Partners.
Amblin Partners 的 Haveman、Will Dahlberg、Tilia Wilton-Johnson、Otto Grimwood、Brandi Mack、Rose Thornwell、Jerry Wolfe、Mark Rader、Roy Arce、Jay Shilliday、Sam Greenspan 和 Lauren Elliott。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's cofounder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, I made him a martini.
你知道，我给他做了一杯马提尼酒。
He always wants extra ice in the shaker.
他总是想在摇酒壶里多加冰块。
Always extra ice.
总是加冰。
I know he likes it when he says--
我知道他喜欢这样说——
Aww, man, that was cold.
哇，天哪，真冷。
Ira Glass I'm Ira Glass.
艾拉·格拉斯 我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。