636: I Thought It Would Be Easier - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #636 | January 19, 2018 636: I Thought It Would Be Easier Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 636 集 | 2018 年 1 月 19 日 636：我以为这会更容易 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Seriously, America?
序言：序言 Ira Glass 说真的，美国？
Is this one so hard?
这个有那么难吗？
This seems like an easy layup-- a 4-inch putt, a slow pitch across the plate, a thing that's so easy that even somebody like me who doesn't care about sports finds himself making sports metaphors.
这看起来像是一个简单的上篮——一个4英寸的推杆，一个缓慢的投球穿过本垒板，这件事是如此简单，甚至像我这样不关心体育的人也会发现自己在做体育隐喻。
I'm talking about the DREAMers, the DACA kids who were brought to the US as small children.
我说的是梦想家，即童年时期被带到美国的 DACA 孩子。
The majority of Americans have wanted to give them a path to citizenship since 2010.
自 2010 年以来，大多数美国人一直希望为他们提供获得公民身份的途径。
Republican Senator Lindsey Graham quoted a Fox News poll on the floor of the Senate this week that shows 79% of the public supports that, including 63% of Trump voters.
共和党参议员林赛·格雷厄姆本周在参议院引用了福克斯新闻的一项民意调查，显示 79% 的公众支持这一点，其中包括 63% 的特朗普选民。
Leaders of both parties in the House and Senate say they want it.
参众两院两党领导人均表示希望如此。
The president says he wants it.
总统说他想要它。
In other words, it's super popular.
换句话说，它非常受欢迎。
Politicians support it.
政治家们都支持它。
And yet, we've been trying 2001-- 2001!
然而，2001年——2001年我们一直在努力！
And we still don't have a permanent fix to this.
我们仍然没有永久解决这个问题。
There's this thing that President Trump said about his job on his 98th day in office.
特朗普总统在就任第 98 天时谈到了他的工作。
He said, "I thought it would be easier," which, OK, he was roundly mocked for that.
他说，“我认为这会更容易”，好吧，他因此遭到了严厉的嘲笑。
But weeks like this one, I think that too.
但像这一周，我也这么认为。
Like really, with so many things, I really thought our democracy could do these things.
就像真的一样，对于很多事情，我真的认为我们的民主可以做到这些事情。
Like, why is it not easier?
就像，为什么不更容易呢？
Well, from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
嗯，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这是《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, in this week of government dysfunction, we have two stories of lawmakers not able to accomplish tasks that seem, from the outside, very straightforward.
今天，在我们的节目中，在政府功能失调的一周里，我们有两个立法者无法完成从外部看来非常简单的任务的故事。
Act One of our show is about Republicans.
我们的节目第一幕是关于共和党人的。
Act Two is about Democrats.
第二幕是关于民主党的。
Specifically with the Democrats, what are they doing?
特别是民主党，他们在做什么？
A year into the Trump presidency, what exactly is their plan?
特朗普就任总统一年后，他们的计划到底是什么？
Why does it seem to be, you know, nothing?
为什么看起来，你知道，什么都没有？
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Send in the Gowns.
第一幕，送礼服。
President Trump hasn't got a chance yet to build his wall.
特朗普总统还没有机会修建隔离墙。
One of the first things he did in office was to issue an executive order of what to do when people are caught crossing the US border.
他上任后做的第一件事就是发布一项行政命令，规定当有人越过美国边境时被抓到时该怎么做。
Even under President Obama, most of those people got kicked out right away through a process called expedited removal.
即使在奥巴马总统的领导下，这些人中的大多数也通过一个称为“快速驱逐”的程序立即被驱逐出境。
But there were lots of people who got locked up, processed, and released after a few weeks into the United States while they waited for their day in court, which could take years.
但有很多人在进入美国几周后被关押、处理并释放，等待出庭的日子，这可能需要数年时间。
And then, often, they didn't even show up in court.
然后，他们常常甚至不出庭。
It was kind of a mess.
有点乱。
Border agents called it catch and release.
边境人员称其为“抓获后释放”。
You probably heard that phrase.
你可能听说过这句话。
The Trump administration wanted to get rid of catch and release.
特朗普政府希望取消抓捕后释放的做法。
And so rather than do that, they decided they were going to take this group of people, detain them, and then get them in front of a judge fast, and then quickly deport anybody who should not be here.
因此，他们没有这样做，而是决定带走这群人，拘留他们，然后快速将他们带到法官面前，然后迅速驱逐任何不应该在这里的人。
That, of course, required judges, more than they had at the border at the time.
当然，这需要法官，比当时边境的法官更多。
So they started flying immigration judges from around the country from their regular courtrooms to courts near the border.
因此，他们开始将全国各地的移民法官从常规法庭运送到边境附近的法庭。
They would be there for two weeks at a time.
他们一次会在那里待两周。
And so this is an example of politicians seeing something they wanted to fix.
这是政客们看到他们想要解决的问题的一个例子。
They came up with a straightforward plan to do it.
他们想出了一个简单的计划来做到这一点。
And we wanted to know, how's that working?
我们想知道，这是如何运作的？
Well, to answer that, we collaborated with The Marshall Project and their reporter, Julia Preston, who's visited immigration courts for over a decade in her old job as the immigration correspondent for The New York Times.
好吧，为了回答这个问题，我们与马歇尔项目及其记者朱莉娅·普雷斯顿合作，朱莉娅·普雷斯顿在担任《纽约时报》移民记者的旧工作中访问了移民法庭十多年。
She's broken many stories of this subject.
她打破了许多关于这个主题的故事。
She went with one of our producers, Jonathan Menjivar, to one of these courts.
她和我们的一位制片人乔纳森·门吉瓦 (Jonathan Menjivar) 一起去了其中一个法庭。
This one was inside a detention center in Laredo, Texas.
这是在德克萨斯州拉雷多的一个拘留中心内。
Here are Jonathan and Julia.
这是乔纳森和朱莉娅。
The first thing that happened when we got to this immigration court in Laredo was that we couldn't even get inside.
当我们到达拉雷多的移民法庭时，发生的第一件事是我们甚至无法进去。
Immigration courts are supposed to be open to the public, but this court, it's inside the detention center, which is run by a private prison company.
移民法庭本应向公众开放，但这个法庭却位于拘留中心内，由一家私人监狱公司运营。
So to get in, you have to get past an employee who's sitting behind a thick glass window.
所以要进去，你必须越过坐在厚玻璃窗后面的员工。
It was October when we visited, and the window was covered in Charlie Brown Halloween stickers-- Lucy in a wizard costume, Snoopy napping on a jack-o'-lantern.
我们去的时候是十月份，窗户上贴满了查理·布朗的万圣节贴纸——露西穿着巫师服装，史努比在南瓜灯上打盹。
We'd made arrangements in advance with ICE, the Federal immigration enforcement agency, to let them know we were coming.
我们提前与联邦移民执法机构 ICE 做出安排，让他们知道我们要来。
But it didn't help.
但这没有帮助。
Eventually, we are cleared to enter.
最终，我们获准进入。
You're not allowed to record in court, so you're not going to hear any audio, but I'll just tell you.
你不能在法庭上录音，所以你不会听到任何音频，但我只是告诉你。
When we get into the courtroom, I realize I've met the judge before.
当我们走进法庭时，我意识到我以前见过法官。
His name is Barry Pettinato, and I met him when I was reporting a story last summer back in his home courtroom in Charlotte, North Carolina.
他的名字叫巴里·佩蒂纳托（Barry Pettinato），去年夏天我在他位于北卡罗来纳州夏洛特的家乡法庭报道一个故事时认识了他。
In Charlotte, Judge Pettinato was fully in command, and he was running a fast-paced, no-nonsense courtroom.
在夏洛特，佩蒂纳托法官完全掌控一切，他主持着一个快节奏、严肃的法庭。
He has a record as a tough judge.
他有着严厉法官的记录。
It's not easy to win an asylum claim with Judge Pettinato.
赢得佩蒂纳托法官的庇护申请并不容易。
In Laredo, he told us he was in the second week of a two-week stint.
在拉雷多，他告诉我们他正处于为期两周的工作中的第二周。
He kind of jokingly asked me if I was following him around.
他开玩笑地问我是否在跟踪他。
Pettinato's courtroom in Laredo was hastily arranged last March to accommodate a judge.
佩蒂纳托位于拉雷多的法庭是去年三月匆忙安排的，以容纳一名法官。
It's a cramped space with no windows, with the judge and the immigrants up very close to each other.
这是一个没有窗户的狭窄空间，法官和移民彼此距离很近。
But there is one of those raised wooden podiums for the judge, so it looks enough like a court.
但是有一个供法官使用的凸起的木制讲台，所以它看起来足够像一个法庭。
Judge Pettinato takes the bench and, right away, it's clear that things aren't going as smoothly as they did in his home court in Charlotte.
佩蒂纳托法官上任后，很明显事情并不像他在夏洛特的主场那样顺利。
Pettinato has this big stack of blue files, and initially, it's not clear which case he's supposed to hear.
佩蒂纳托有一大堆蓝色文件，一开始并不清楚他应该听哪一个案件。
An immigrant is called who has the identity number 991, but the government doesn't seem to have the file for that person.
一名移民的身份号码为 991，但政府似乎没有该人的档案。
In fact, it seems that person may already have been deported.
事实上，这个人可能已经被驱逐出境了。
But they do have a file for immigrant 919.
但他们确实有 919 移民档案。
Maybe they're supposed to hear that case instead?
也许他们应该听这个案子？
"Was that just bad data input?" Judge Pettinato asks.
“这只是错误的数据输入吗？”佩蒂纳托法官问道。
It isn't even 9 o'clock in the morning and he already seems exasperated.
现在还不到早上九点，他就显得很恼火了。
We soon find out he's not the only one.
我们很快发现他不是唯一一个。
During a break between cases, the government attorney-- he's the immigration court equivalent of the prosecutor, and someone who generally wouldn't talk to the press-- he walks up to us and seems eager to share his frustration.
在案件间歇期间，政府律师——他相当于移民法庭的检察官，通常不会与媒体交谈——他走到我们面前，似乎渴望分享他的挫败感。
He tells us the whole Laredo court is, quote, "just a bad setup." He explains how it works, or rather, how it doesn't really work.
他告诉我们整个拉雷多法庭“只是一个糟糕的设置”。他解释了它是如何工作的，或者更确切地说，它是如何不起作用的。
The judges come and go every two weeks.
评委每两周来一次。
The clerks also come and go every two weeks.
办事员也每两周来一次。
But the clerks don't necessarily come with the judges, so the judges may be working with clerks from some other part of the country they've never met before.
但书记员不一定和法官一起来，因此法官可能会与来自该国其他地区的他们以前从未见过的书记员一起工作。
There are two attorneys for the government.
政府有两名律师。
They come and go every four weeks.
他们每四个星期来一次。
The Spanish language interpreters, who have to be in the court much of the time, are also coming and going.
大部分时间必须在法庭上的西班牙语口译员也来来往往。
Everyone is coming and going.
每个人都来来去去。
And there's no overlap between one rotation of judges or prosecutors and the next rotation.
法官或检察官的轮换与下一次轮换之间没有重叠。
The government attorney tells us the result is just plain chaotic.
政府律师告诉我们，结果简直是混乱不堪。
A few minutes later, Judge Pettinato spends some time trying to get one lawyer on the phone, but it keeps disconnecting.
几分钟后，佩蒂纳托法官花了一些时间试图给一名律师打电话，但电话一直断线。
Next up, there's an Albanian who agrees to participate in his hearing in Spanish, even though he doesn't really speak Spanish.
接下来，有一位阿尔巴尼亚人同意参加他的西班牙语听证会，尽管他实际上不会说西班牙语。
"Me hablo mucho Italiano.
“我是意大利人。
Entiendo un poquito Español," he tells the interpreter.
Entiendo un poquito Español，”他告诉翻译。
I speak a lot of Italian.
我会说很多意大利语。
I understand a little Spanish.
我懂一点西班牙语。
The more time we sat in the courtroom, the more I realized we were noticing things I had never seen in years of observing immigration courts.
我们在法庭上坐的时间越长，我就越意识到我们注意到了我多年来观察移民法庭时从未见过的事情。
There was no posted hearing schedule.
没有公布听证会时间表。
Case files often went missing.
案件档案经常丢失。
Judge Pettinato was trying to move things along, but instead of efficiency, there were time-consuming mishaps and delays.
佩蒂纳托法官试图推动事情进展，但效率不但没有提高，反而出现了耗时的事故和延误。
And as a result, immigrants who were detained and anxious and who expected to have an orderly process and a fair hearing weren't really getting that.
结果，那些被拘留和焦虑的移民，以及那些期望有一个有序的程序和公平听证会的人并没有真正得到这一点。
Nor were they getting the speedy treatment the Trump administration intended, or anything close.
他们也没有得到特朗普政府想要的快速治疗，或者任何接近的治疗。
A lot of the fumbling happens because of a simple dumb reason.
很多摸索的发生都是因为一个简单愚蠢的原因。
All of the files are still kept on paper.
所有文件仍然保存在纸上。
All immigration courts around the country work this way, but it's an especially big problem in Laredo.
全国各地的所有移民法庭都是这样运作的，但这在拉雷多是一个特别大的问题。
During one hearing, there's a lawyer, this guy who's driven up three hours from Weslaco, Texas.
在一次听证会上，有一位律师，他从德克萨斯州韦斯拉科驱车三个小时赶来。
He's there to ask for a bond so his client can be released.
他来这里是为了要求保释，这样他的当事人就可以被释放。
But here's the hiccup.
但问题就在这里。
The files for this court in Laredo, they're not actually in Laredo, at least initially.
拉雷多法院的文件实际上并不在拉雷多，至少最初是这样。
They're filed in another immigration court 150 miles away in San Antonio.
他们已向 150 英里外圣安东尼奥的另一个移民法庭提起诉讼。
And every case file, it has to be physically sent here.
每个案件卷宗都必须亲自发送到这里。
And sometimes they don't make it, like with this lawyer.
有时他们无法成功，就像这位律师一样。
"You may have submitted it, but we don't have it," Judge Pettinato says to the lawyer.
“你可能已经提交了，但我们没有，”佩蒂纳托法官对律师说。
"I filed it in San Antonio," the lawyer says.
“我在圣安东尼奥提交了申请，”律师说。
"Well, that could explain it." Judge Pettinato's eyes roll as he says this.
“嗯，这样就可以解释了。”佩蒂纳托法官说这句话时翻了个白眼。
It's a strange thing to see in a courtroom, a judge openly mocking the flaws of the court he's running.
在法庭上看到一名法官公开嘲笑他所管理的法院的缺陷是一件奇怪的事情。
Even stranger are the knowing nods in the room.
更奇怪的是房间里人们会心地点点头。
Everyone here-- the lawyer, the clerk, the government prosecutor, even the interpreter-- they know this hearing can't go forward because of the haphazard way this courtroom has been set up.
这里的每个人——律师、书记员、政府检察官，甚至翻译——他们都知道，由于法庭的设置方式随意，听证会无法继续进行。
Judge Pettinato sets the bond hearing for a week out-- a time, remember, when some other judge will have replaced him.
佩蒂纳托法官将保释听证会的时间定为一周——记住，届时其他法官将取代他。
The guard then escorts the woman from Honduras that this whole hearing was about out of the courtroom.
然后，警卫护送这名来自洪都拉斯的妇女离开法庭，整个听证会即将进行。
She's stuck in detention for another week, having no idea what will happen with her case.
她又被拘留了一个星期，不知道她的案子会发生什么。
When you start asking around in Laredo for someone who really knows what's going on in this court, there's one lawyer whose name keeps popping up-- Paola Tostado.
当你开始在拉雷多打听真正了解法庭情况的人时，你会发现有一位律师的名字不断出现——保拉·托斯塔多（Paola Tostado）。
She's a real Texas highway rider lawyer from Brownsville, three hours to the south.
她是一位真正的德克萨斯州高速公路骑手律师，来自布朗斯维尔，距南部三小时车程。
She makes the drive to Laredo sometimes three times a week, keeping an eye out for a Texas breed of antelope called a nilgai.
她有时每周开车三次前往拉雷多，留意德克萨斯州的羚羊品种，称为蓝牛羚。
It's the size of a horse, and it can appear on the highway at 5:00 in the morning when she's driving to court.
它有马那么大，早上 5:00 当她开车去法庭时，它就会出现在高速公路上。
While most lawyers were wearing muted black in that dingy detention center, Paola announced her presence with a scarlet dress and 4-inch spike heels.
在那个肮脏的拘留中心里，大多数律师都穿着柔和的黑色衣服，而保拉却穿着猩红色的连衣裙和 4 英寸的高跟鞋宣布了她的出现。
And in a court filled with all these rotating judges, Paola, this young lawyer who graduated from law school in 2015, she seemed to have become a resident expert.
而在挤满轮值法官的法庭里，保拉这位2015年从法学院毕业的年轻律师，似乎成了一名常驻专家。
We saw Judge Pettinato defer to her judgment a couple of times when she was in court.
我们看到佩蒂纳托法官在法庭上多次服从她的判决。
She's very persistent and confident.
她非常执着和自信。
Paola told us she had this case that was emblematic of the messed up situations lawyers and immigrants find themselves in when a court isn't running properly.
保拉告诉我们，她遇到的这个案件象征着当法庭运行不正常时，律师和移民发现自己陷入了混乱的境地。
The case involved a guy from El Salvador who wanted to appeal after he didn't pass his first asylum interview.
该案涉及一名来自萨尔瓦多的男子，他在第一次庇护面试未通过后想要上诉。
Paola drove up to San Antonio to speak with the court clerk and see her client's file.
宝拉开车前往圣安东尼奥与法庭书记员交谈并查看她当事人的档案。
And the court clerk informed me that the case was closed, that the judge had closed the proceedings.
法庭书记员告诉我，案件已结案，法官已结束诉讼程序。
And I said, well, that's impossible because my client is still in detention.
我说，好吧，那是不可能的，因为我的当事人仍然被拘留。
And she's like, well, if you can give me some sort of proof that he is still in detention, which is ridiculous.
她说，好吧，如果你能给我某种证据证明他仍然被拘留，这太荒谬了。
Ridiculous because the proof that he was in detention was that he was still in detention.
可笑的是，他被拘留的证据就是他仍然被拘留。
But the clerk had no record of that.
但店员没有这方面的记录。
The problem was that, if the case was formally closed, to get any order from the court to have the man released, Paola would need to get the case reopened.
问题是，如果案件正式结案，为了获得法院释放该男子的命令，保拉需要重新审理案件。
She tried ICE, the court in Laredo, the clerk's office in San Antonio, but nobody could figure out why a judge-- a judge who was no longer there-- had closed the case.
她尝试过 ICE、拉雷多的法院、圣安东尼奥的书记员办公室，但没有人能弄清楚为什么一名法官——一名不再在那里的法官——结案了。
Everyone was baffled, but everyone was also passing the buck.
所有人都莫名其妙，但大家也都在推卸责任。
The man sat in detention in Laredo month after month.
该男子在拉雷多被拘留了一个月又一个月。
For any court, this is about as bad as it gets.
对于任何法院来说，这都是最糟糕的情况。
The government was detaining this man, but legally, the court had no basis to hold him.
政府正在拘留这个人，但从法律上来说，法院没有拘留他的依据。
And still there was no way to get him out because the case was closed.
但仍然没有办法让他出去，因为案子已经结案了。
Finally, the immigrant solved the problem himself.
最后，移民自己解决了这个问题。
ICE brought him a deportation order and he signed it.
ICE 给他带来了驱逐令，他签署了。
He just gave up.
他只是放弃了。
Paola Tostado He just gave up.
保拉·托斯塔多 他就放弃了。
Exactly.
确切地。
He said, no, they just brought me the documents.
他说，没有，他们只是给我带来了文件。
I signed them.
我签了他们。
I want out of here.
我想离开这里。
I want to go.
我想去。
I can't do this anymore.
我不能再这样做了。
Welcome to the automated case information hotline.
欢迎使用自动化案件信息热线。
This wasn't an isolated incident.
这不是一个孤立的事件。
On the day we were there, Paola had another case just like it, a client who was in detention.
我们去的那天，保拉还接到了另一起类似的案件，一名客户被拘留。
She worried that he would despair and self-deport, as well.
她担心他也会绝望并自我驱逐。
Paola called the hotline you can dial in to check the status of any case.
保拉拨打了热线电话，您可以拨打该热线来检查任何案件的状态。
She pressed a few buttons, and we got an update on her current client.
她按了几个按钮，我们就得到了她当前客户的最新情况。
The immigration judge closed proceedings on your case at Laredo SPC 4702 East Saunders, Laredo, Texas, 78041 on August 23, 2017.
移民法官于 2017 年 8 月 23 日在 Laredo SPC 4702 East Saunders, Laredo, Texas, 78041 结束了您案件的诉讼程序。
The hotline says his case was closed on August 23, 2017.
热线称他的案件已于 2017 年 8 月 23 日结案。
That was months ago, but he was still in detention, still in need of a hearing to get his case moving-- a hearing he can't get because his case is closed.
那是几个月前的事了，但他仍然被拘留，仍然需要举行听证会来推动他的案件——但他无法参加听证会，因为他的案件已经结案。
The system does not contain any information regarding a future hearing date on your case.
该系统不包含有关您案件的未来听证日期的任何信息。
He just sounds defeated.
他只是听起来很失败。
He just says, I just don't want to be sitting here waiting for nothing.
他只是说，我只是不想坐在这里无所事事。
If I'm waiting for something, if you tell me I have a court in two months, then I'll wait for that court in two months.
如果我在等待什么，如果你告诉我两个月后开庭，那么我会等两个月后开庭。
But there's no court for me.
但没有法庭适合我。
So the question of the day here is, if we would be in another court, would this still be happening?
所以今天的问题是，如果我们在另一个法庭，这种情况还会发生吗？
Or is it just because we're here in Laredo and we're in an immigration court, which is-- it's not organized?
或者只是因为我们在拉雷多，我们在移民法庭，而法庭没有组织？
Or who is there to blame here if there's someone to blame?
或者如果有人应该受到责备的话，这又该怪谁呢？
Did you just put air quotes around "immigration court?"
你刚刚是不是在“移民法庭”周围加上了空引号？
[LAUGHS] Yes.
[笑]是的。
It's crazy.
太疯狂了。
You wouldn't think this would be happening.
你不会认为这会发生。
Your question of would this be happening in another court, what do you think?
你的问题是，这种情况会在另一个法庭发生吗？你怎么看？
I highly doubt this would be happening in another court.
我非常怀疑这种情况会在另一个法庭发生。
A day after we recorded this interview, this second client of Paola's was suddenly released, and he didn't even have to post bond.
在我们录制这次采访的第二天，保拉的第二位客户突然被释放，他甚至不需要缴纳保释金。
ICE gave no explanation why they let him go.
ICE 没有解释为何释放他。
Back at the courtroom, at one point, Judge Pettinato looks at the stack of blue files in front of him and whispers to his clerk, "the problem is, I can't do all of these." In fact, the immigration court system is drowning in cases.
回到法庭，佩蒂纳托法官有一次看着他面前的一叠蓝色文件，低声对他的书记员说：“问题是，我无法完成所有这些工作。”事实上，移民法庭系统已被案件淹没。
There's a huge backlog-- at last count, 650,000 cases waiting to be resolved.
有大量积压案件——根据最新统计，有 650,000 个案件等待解决。
That number doubled in the last five years under President Obama.
在奥巴马总统领导下的过去五年里，这个数字翻了一番。
650,000 cases works out to be about 2,000 for every judge, so immigrants often wait several years to have their cases heard.
650,000 个案件相当于每位法官大约 2,000 个案件，因此移民常常要等待数年才能审理他们的案件。
The Trump administration's plan to rush judges to the border was supposed to help with the backlog.
特朗普政府将法官紧急送往边境的计划本应有助于解决案件积压问题。
If they could quickly turn away illegal border crossers, they could keep new cases from building up in the system.
如果他们能够迅速拒绝非法越境者，就可以防止系统中出现新病例。
But sending a judge down to a border court for two weeks means that all the cases that were ready to go on their home docket have to be postponed and rescheduled.
但将一名法官派往边境法院两周意味着所有准备在本国审理的案件都必须推迟并重新安排时间。
On Judge Pettinato's Charlotte docket, for example, because of how behind they are there, the cases he had scheduled for the two weeks he was in Laredo had to be reset to late 2018, about a year away.
例如，在佩蒂纳托法官的夏洛特案卷上，由于案件进展缓慢，他原定在拉雷多的两周内审理的案件不得不重置为 2018 年底，大约一年后。
In practice, the backlog in Charlotte just got bigger.
实际上，夏洛特的积压订单越来越多。
The thing is, not all the courts with these temporary judges look like Laredo.
问题是，并非所有拥有这些临时法官的法院都像拉雷多。
Some of the border courts have the opposite problem.
一些边境法院存在相反的问题。
They have more judges than they need, so judges have ended up sitting around in empty courtrooms with nothing to do.
他们的法官数量超出了他们的需要，因此法官们最终只能坐在空荡荡的法庭里无所事事。
We talked to a judge named Lawrence Burman, who normally sits in a court in Arlington, Virginia.
我们采访了一位名叫劳伦斯·伯曼（Lawrence Burman）的法官，他通常在弗吉尼亚州阿灵顿的法院担任法官。
His first border detail was to a court in Jena, Louisiana.
他的第一个边境细节是在路易斯安那州耶拿的一家法院进行的。
The problem was that we had four judges there, and there was really only enough work for two judges.
问题是我们有四名法官，而实际上只够两名法官做工作。
So I had a lot of free time, which is pretty useless in Jena, Louisiana.
所以我有很多空闲时间，这在路易斯安那州耶拿毫无用处。
I couldn't really do anything except review the other files for Jena.
除了查看耶拿的其他文件之外，我真的无能为力。
And once I reviewed all of them, read the newspaper OR read my email.
一旦我回顾了所有这些，就可以阅读报纸或阅读我的电子邮件。
Out of 10 court days in Jena, there were two days where Judge Burman had no cases at all.
在耶拿的 10 个法庭日中，伯曼法官有两天没有审理任何案件。
Meanwhile, back home, he could have been moving forward with as many as 50 cases a day.
与此同时，回到家后，他每天可能会处理多达 50 个病例。
Instead, dozens of those cases were rescheduled to the next date he had available on his calendar, which, because of the enormous backlog in Arlington, is three years away, in 2020.
相反，其中数十个案件被重新安排到他日历上的下一个日期，由于阿灵顿的大量积压，距离该日期还有三年，即 2020 年。
A sitting federal judge isn't allowed to do an interview.
现任联邦法官不得接受采访。
That's why you're not hearing from Judge Pettinato.
这就是为什么你没有收到佩蒂纳托法官的消息。
But Judge Burman is also a high-ranking official with the National Association of Immigration Judges-- it's kind of like their union-- so he can talk to reporters in that capacity.
但伯曼法官也是全国移民法官协会的高级官员——这有点像他们的工会——所以他可以以这个身份与记者交谈。
And before we move on, Judge Burman wanted to make it clear.
在我们继续之前，伯曼法官想澄清这一点。
What he's saying here, these are his views and things he's heard from other judges across the country.
他在这里所说的，这些是他的观点以及他从全国其他法官那里听到的事情。
They are not the views of the Justice Department or the court system.
它们不是司法部或法院系统的观点。
Judge Burman never went to Laredo, but he's talked to other judges who've been there, and he confirmed all the problems we saw.
伯曼法官从未去过拉雷多，但他与去过那里的其他法官交谈过，他证实了我们看到的所有问题。
He said Laredo was especially notable because there was never a crisis there in the first place.
他说拉雷多尤其值得注意，因为那里从一开始就没有发生过危机。
Prior to President Trump's order, all their cases were being heard by judges in San Antonio via a video system.
在特朗普总统下令之前，圣安东尼奥的法官通过视频系统审理了他们的所有案件。
The system wasn't great, but it was working.
该系统不是很好，但它正在运行。
All the emergency shuffling did was replace judges in San Antonio hearing cases by video with a live judge in Laredo, which, for a while, left some of the judges in San Antonio with empty dockets.
所有紧急改组所做的只是将圣安东尼奥通过视频审理案件的法官替换为拉雷多的现场法官，这使得圣安东尼奥的一些法官暂时没有了案卷。
So basically, a judge who was already on the border-- San Antonio's not exactly on the border, but it's not too far-- had nothing to do.
所以基本上，已经在边界上的法官——圣安东尼奥并不完全在边界上，但也不太远——无事可做。
Another judge was pulled away from his docket and sent down there, presumably just so that they could say that they rushed more judges to the border.
另一名法官被从他的案卷中拉走并送到那里，大概只是为了让他们可以说他们把更多法官赶到了边境。
The "they" in this case is the Justice Department, which is run by Attorney General Jeff Sessions.
本案中的“他们”是司法部，由司法部长杰夫·塞申斯领导。
They are actually the ones who oversee the courts.
他们实际上是监督法院的人。
A peculiarity of the American immigration court system is that it's part of the executive branch, which is why the President can rapidly change the priorities of the court like this.
美国移民法院系统的一个特点是它是行政部门的一部分，这就是为什么总统可以像这样迅速改变法院的优先事项。
The Department of Justice doesn't really understand what we do and probably don't care very much in the final analysis.
司法部并不真正了解我们在做什么，而且归根结底可能也不太关心。
It just wants to present to the attorney general the fact that they're doing everything that they can.
它只是想向司法部长展示他们正在尽其所能的事实。
So I assume that they just sent as many judges to the border as they had courtrooms to put them in without much regard to how many cases there actually were there.
因此，我认为他们只是派了尽可能多的法官到边境，因为他们有法庭可以安置他们，而没有太多考虑那里实际有多少案件。
It's almost as if the Department of Justice and [INAUDIBLE] management are trying to see how they can make the system less and less efficient.
就好像司法部和[听不清]管理层正在尝试如何使系统效率越来越低。
In the name of efficiency?
以效率的名义？
Lawrence Burman Well, I don't know what they think they're doing, but what they're doing is not efficient.
Lawrence Burman 嗯，我不知道他们认为自己在做什么，但他们所做的事情效率不高。
Just my opinion and opinion of practically every judge that I know.
这只是我的观点以及我认识的几乎每一位法官的观点。
Like we said, President Trump's plan for these courts was to process people and deport them quickly.
正如我们所说，特朗普总统对这些法庭的计划是快速处理人员并驱逐他们。
And during our week in Laredo, we did see some bad hombres come through the court-- immigrants who'd gotten involved in drug trafficking.
在拉雷多的一周里，我们确实看到一些坏人进入法庭——参与贩毒的移民。
There was one Mexican who worked with a human smuggling ring, harboring other undocumented immigrants for $100 a pop.
有一名墨西哥人与人口走私团伙合作，以每人 100 美元的价格窝藏其他无证移民。
But in general, these emergency border courts were designed to handle a crisis at the border that isn't happening.
但总的来说，这些紧急边境法庭的目的是处理尚未发生的边境危机。
In 2017, Customs and Border Protection recorded the lowest level of illegal migration in 45 years.
2017年，海关和边境保护局记录了45年来非法移民数量的最低水平。
President Trump made it clear that he was going to be tough on immigrants.
特朗普总统明确表示，他将对移民采取强硬态度。
And after he won the election, the numbers declined sharply.
在他赢得选举后，这一数字急剧下降。
Many immigrants who are coming now are people who we can't deport quickly-- asylum seekers who have a right to have their case heard before an immigration judge.
现在来的许多移民都是我们无法迅速驱逐出境的人——寻求庇护者，他们有权让移民法官审理他们的案件。
We spent a little time at the border in Laredo.
我们在拉雷多边境呆了一会儿。
And within just an hour, we saw eight people who had presented themselves to authorities requesting asylum.
仅仅一个小时之内，我们就看到了八个人向当局提出庇护请求。
The numbers that are really way up over the last year are not at the border.
与去年相比真正上升的数字并不在边界上。
They're the rest of immigrants inside the country, in towns and cities that are losing judges for weeks at a time to these border courts.
他们是该国境内城镇中的其他移民，这些边境法院的法官一次连续数周流失。
The Trump administration has said they're pleased with the results of this surge of immigration judges, that it's been a success.
特朗普政府表示，他们对移民法官激增的结果感到满意，认为这是成功的。
The director of the Justice Department agency that oversees the immigration courts said, and I quote, "mobilized immigration judges had completed approximately 2,700 more cases than expected if they had not been detailed." Essentially, he argued that judges who were sent to the border, about 100 of them in all, they completed 2,700 more cases than they would have if they'd stayed in their home courts.
负责监督移民法院的司法部机构负责人表示（我引用一下）“如果没有详细说明的话，动员起来的移民法官已经比预期多完成了大约 2,700 起案件。”从本质上讲，他认为，被派往边境的法官（总共约 100 名）比留在本国法院多完成了 2,700 件案件。
But that doesn't take into account that sending judges to the border meant that at least 22,000 cases around the country had to be rescheduled in the first three months alone-- perhaps for a year, as in Judge Pettinato's Charlotte cases, or perhaps three years, like in Judge Burman's courtroom.
但这并没有考虑到，将法官派往边境意味着仅在前三个月，全国各地至少有 22,000 起案件必须重新安排时间——也许是一年，就像佩蒂纳托法官的夏洛特案件一样，也可能是三年，就像伯曼法官的法庭一样。
We reached out to the Justice Department for comment.
我们联系了司法部征求意见。
They didn't respond to our request for an interview, but they did answer some questions over email.
他们没有回应我们的采访请求，但他们确实通过电子邮件回答了一些问题。
An official stressed that the backlog in immigration court is getting better.
一位官员强调，移民法庭积压的案件正在好转。
To be clear, they haven't actually reduced the backlog.
需要明确的是，他们实际上并没有减少积压。
It's still increasing.
它仍在增加。
But they point out that it's increasing at a slower rate.
但他们指出，增长速度正在放缓。
It was growing at over 3% per month when President Trump took office, and it's less than 0.5% now.
特朗普总统上任时每月增长率超过 3%，而现在还不到 0.5%。
But it's unclear if this change was because the Justice Department sent judges to the border or because of other efforts they've made to reduce the backlog, like hiring dozens of immigration judges.
但目前尚不清楚这一变化是因为司法部将法官派往边境，还是因为他们为减少积压而做出的其他努力，例如雇用了数十名移民法官。
There was one other fact they wouldn't explain.
还有另外一个事实他们没有解释。
Unceremoniously, at the end of last year, the Justice Department decided to stop sending judges to Laredo.
去年年底，司法部毫不客气地决定停止向拉雷多派遣法官。
They went back to the old video system.
他们又回到了旧的视频系统。
We asked them why that decision was made and got no response.
我们询问他们为什么做出这个决定，但没有得到回应。
Our last morning in Laredo, we saw a case that told us a lot about many of the immigrants who were being deported by this court.
在拉雷多的最后一个早晨，我们看到了一个案例，它告诉我们很多关于许多被该法院驱逐出境的移民的信息。
It was a hearing for an undocumented Mexican man named Fernando.
这是针对一位名叫费尔南多的墨西哥无证男子的听证会。
He wasn't a recent border crosser.
他并不是最近才越境的。
He had no criminal record, so he wasn't a priority for deportation, even for the Trump administration, which says it's focusing on getting rid of criminals.
他没有犯罪记录，因此他不是驱逐出境的优先对象，即使对于特朗普政府来说也是如此，特朗普政府表示其重点是除掉罪犯。
We met his girlfriend, Irma, in the waiting room.
我们在候诊室遇见了他的女朋友艾尔玛。
She said together they were raising four children, all American citizens born here.
她说他们一起抚养四个孩子，他们都是在这里出生的美国公民。
Fernando had been picked up by local police after getting into a loud argument outside a Laredo bar.
费尔南多在拉雷多一家酒吧外发生激烈争吵后被当地警方逮捕。
He wasn't charged or convicted of anything, but the cops turned him over to ICE.
他没有受到任何指控或定罪，但警察将他移交给了 ICE。
But when Fernando started laying out all the details of his story-- this was just a few minutes into his case-- Judge Pettinato interrupted him.
但当费尔南多开始讲述他的故事的所有细节时——这只是他的案子的几分钟——佩蒂纳托法官打断了他。
"Sir, I've got a whole bunch of cases going on today.
“先生，我今天有很多案子要处理。
I get the gist." The judge was ready to issue his decision.
我明白了要点。”法官准备宣布他的决定。
Fernando would have to leave the country.
费尔南多将不得不离开这个国家。
He and his girlfriend looked stunned.
他和他的女朋友看上去都惊呆了。
Fernando choked up.
费尔南多哽咽了。
He kept putting his head in his hands and staring at the wall.
他一直把头埋在双手里，盯着墙壁。
It was pretty clear he and Irma hadn't expected a decision.
很明显，他和艾尔玛并没有预料到会有这样的决定。
They thought this was just going to be a procedural hearing and they'd have time to get a lawyer.
他们认为这只是一次程序听证会，他们有时间聘请律师。
In fact, in a regular immigration court, that's exactly what would have happened.
事实上，在常规的移民法庭上，这正是会发生的情况。
I've seen it many times.
我已经看过很多次了。
But now Fernando wouldn't get a chance to fully tell his story to a judge.
但现在费尔南多没有机会向法官完整讲述他的故事。
These border courts are designed for speed.
这些边境法院是为了速度而设计的。
That's their whole point.
这就是他们的重点。
And this is what that looks like.
这就是看起来的样子。
Judge Pettinato took a moment to explain to Fernando that, even though it was commendable that he wanted to stay in the US to help his family, legally, there was no way he could allow it.
佩蒂纳托法官花了一点时间向费尔南多解释说，尽管他想留在美国帮助家人在法律上值得称赞，但他不可能允许这样做。
That same afternoon, Fernando was put on the bridge to Nuevo Laredo, Mexico.
当天下午，费尔南多被送上通往墨西哥新拉雷多的大桥。
Julia Preston and our producer, Jonathan Menjivar.
朱莉娅·普雷斯顿和我们的制片人乔纳森·门吉瓦尔。
That story was produced in collaboration with The Marshall Project, where Julia's a contributing writer.
这个故事是与马歇尔计划合作制作的，朱莉娅是该计划的特约作家。
The Marshall Project does in-depth reporting on the criminal justice system.
马歇尔项目对刑事司法系统进行深入报道。
You can read the print version of Julia's story at themarshallproject.org.
您可以在 themarshallproject.org 上阅读 Julia 故事的印刷版。
Coming up.
即将到来。
OK, we and our staff truly did not understand what's happening with the Democratic Party, and we spent a few months trying to figure it out.
好吧，我们和我们的工作人员确实不明白民主党发生了什么，我们花了几个月的时间试图弄清楚。
What we learned in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，我们从芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟内了解到了什么。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, I Thought It Would Be Easier, stories about how difficult it seems to be lately for politicians to get things done, even things that seem pretty straightforward.
今天的节目《我以为这会更容易》讲述了最近政客们似乎很难把事情做好，即使是那些看起来非常简单的事情。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, Fighting Amongst Demselves.
第二幕，他们自己之间的斗争。
So one of the most basic things a political party is supposed to do is stand for something and articulate it.
因此，政党应该做的最基本的事情之一就是代表某件事并阐明它。
And a few months into Donald Trump's presidency, the questions, what does the Democratic Party stand for?
唐纳德·特朗普就任总统几个月后，问题是，民主党代表什么？
What are they doing?
他们在做什么？
What is the strategy?
策略是什么？
They've grown so large that it had the power to render grown people speechless.
它们已经长得如此之大，足以让成年人说不出话来。
Arguably, the national headquarters for impatience with the Democrats is the studios of MSNBC.
可以说，MSNBC 的工作室是全国对民主党不耐烦的根源。
Here's one of their anchors, Joe Scarborough.
这是他们的主播之一，乔·斯卡伯勒。
I'm talking about the national party is clueless.
我说的是国家党毫无头绪。
Where is the Democratic Party?
民主党在哪里？
Mika, where are the Democrats?
米卡，民主党在哪里？
I'm praying.
我正在祈祷。
Joe Scarborough No, no, I'm dead serious.
乔·斯卡伯勒：不，不，我是认真的。
No, I'm serious, too.
不，我也是认真的。
Joe Scarborough What has happened to this party?
乔·斯卡伯勒 这个派对发生了什么？
The Democrats have lost over 1,000 state legislative seats over the past eight years.
过去八年里，民主党失去了 1,000 多个州立法席位。
They've lost the White House to a guy who nobody would even hire as their CEO.
他们把白宫丢给了一个甚至没有人愿意聘请他们担任首席执行官的人。
They've lost over a dozen Senate seats.
他们失去了十多个参议院席位。
They've lost over 60 House seats over the past eight years.
过去八年里他们失去了 60 多个众议院席位。
And the Democrats still don't know who they are.
而民主党仍然不知道他们是谁。
What is wrong with this party?
这个党有什么问题吗？
One of our producers, Ben Calhoun, traveled around, interviewing Democratic strategists and politicians this summer and fall, trying to understand why there did not seem to be a coherent strategy or message.
我们的制片人之一本·卡尔霍恩（Ben Calhoun）在今年夏天和秋天到处采访民主党战略家和政治家，试图理解为什么似乎没有一个连贯的策略或信息。
Here's Ben.
这是本。
It's one thing for Joe Scarborough, who exists in a state of suspended exasperation, to be rolling his eyes at the Democrats.
对于处于愤怒状态的乔·斯卡伯勒来说，对民主党翻白眼是一回事。
It's a completely different thing for someone like Ken Martin to feel fed up.
对于像肯·马丁这样的人来说，感到厌倦是完全不同的事情。
Ken Martin's one of the country's top Democrats.
肯·马丁是美国最顶尖的民主党人之一。
He runs the Minnesota Democratic Party, and he leads the association of all the state Democratic Parties across the country.
他领导着明尼苏达州民主党，并领导着全国所有州民主党的协会。
And he's the vice chair of the DNC.
他是民主党全国委员会的副主席。
Our brand is [BLEEP].
我们的品牌是[BLEEP]。
Our brand is toxic.
我们的品牌有毒。
People don't know what the heck it is.
人们不知道这到底是什么。
If you got 100 Democrats in this room right now and asked them what the Democratic Party stands for, you'd get 100 different answers.
如果你现在在这个房间里有 100 名民主党人，问他们民主党代表什么，你会得到 100 种不同的答案。
There's no consistency.
没有一致性。
No one knows what the Democratic Party is.
没有人知道民主党是什么。
If you got 100 Republicans in here, by and large, you would get at least some consistency on what their party stands for.
如果这里有 100 名共和党人，总的来说，你至少会在他们政党的立场上得到一些一致性。
People need to have some clarity as to who the Democratic Party is, why we do what we do, why we care, and what we're fighting for.
人们需要清楚地了解民主党是谁、我们为什么做我们所做的事情、我们为什么关心以及我们为了什么而奋斗。
How anxious are you feeling about this moment?
这一刻你感觉有多焦虑？
Well, I feel very anxious.
嗯，我感觉很着急。
I feel, for the Democratic Party, this is an existential moment.
我觉得，对于民主党来说，这是一个生死存亡的时刻。
But what exactly might people have been expecting from Democrats in the first year of the Trump era?
但在特朗普时代的第一年，人们到底对民主党有何期待呢？
To that question, I would offer what the Republicans did when Barack Obama was elected.
对于这个问题，我想介绍一下巴拉克·奥巴马当选时共和党人的做法。
They were at their lowest point in decades.
他们正处于几十年来的最低点。
They'd lost both houses of Congress and the Presidency.
他们失去了国会两院和总统职位。
There's a story about that moment that's been documented by a bunch of places, best by reporter Robert Draper.
有一个关于那一刻的故事被很多地方记录下来，最好的是记者罗伯特·德雷珀（Robert Draper）。
On the night of Obama's inauguration, a bunch of Republicans go out for dinner at a fancy steakhouse, a place called The Caucus Room.
奥巴马就职典礼当晚，一群共和党人到一家高档牛排馆（名为“核心小组室”）共进晚餐。
It's a powerful bunch.
这是一个强大的群体。
You've got Paul Ryan, Kevin McCarthy, Eric Cantor, Bob Corker, Frank Luntz, Newt Gingrich, more than a dozen people.
其中有保罗·瑞恩 (Paul Ryan)、凯文·麦卡锡 (Kevin McCarthy)、埃里克·坎托 (Eric Cantor)、鲍勃·科克 (Bob Corker)、弗兰克·伦茨 (Frank Luntz)、纽特·金里奇 (Newt Gingrich) 等十几个人。
And as Obama is visiting inaugural balls, this group sets a strategy.
当奥巴马出席就职舞会时，该组织制定了一项策略。
They would oppose and attack every idea Obama had.
他们会反对并攻击奥巴马的每一个想法。
"If he was for it, we had to be against it," is how one senator put it.
“如果他支持，我们就必须反对，”一位参议员说道。
One key to this whole thing was that they all had to commit to the same plan.
整个事情的一个关键是他们都必须致力于同一个计划。
Paul Ryan, then a young congressman from Wisconsin, told the group, "the only way we succeed is if we're united."
当时来自威斯康星州的年轻国会议员保罗·瑞安 (Paul Ryan) 告诉该组织，“我们成功的唯一途径就是团结一致。”
I think that story is amazing because it's exactly what they did.
我认为这个故事很精彩，因为这正是他们所做的。
It's like staring at the source code for eight years of Republican politics.
这就像盯着共和党政治八年的源代码一样。
And you can trace the path of that strategy from that steakhouse, through their opposition to the stimulus and Obamacare and everything else, through Republicans retaking Congress and the White House.
你可以从那家牛排馆开始，通过他们对刺激计划和奥巴马医改以及其他一切的反对，通过共和党人重新夺回国会和白宫，追踪这一战略的路径。
If Democrats had a meeting like this, in a steakhouse or anywhere, they did not walk out with a strategy that everyone is now following, right?
如果民主党人在牛排馆或任何地方举行这样的会议，他们不会带着现在每个人都遵循的策略离开，对吧？
A year into the Trump presidency, sure, the Democrats were united against the president's tax cuts and his attempts to repeal Obamacare, but beyond that, they do not have a clear message or strategy.
当然，特朗普就任总统一年后，民主党团结起来反对总统的减税政策和废除奥巴马医改的企图，但除此之外，他们没有明确的信息或战略。
And one of the big reasons-- they just don't agree.
重要的原因之一是——他们不同意。
They don't agree about who they are, or what the party should be, or what they should be saying.
他们对于自己是谁、派对应该是什么、或者他们应该说些什么意见不一。
And no one has the power to say, here's where we're going.
没有人有权力说，这就是我们要去的地方。
In fact, when Democratic leadership sends out talking points, congressional staffers have told me they're taken more as suggestions and regularly ignored.
事实上，当民主党领导层发出谈话要点时，国会工作人员告诉我，他们更多地被视为建议，并且经常被忽视。
Several Democrats told me they felt a little jealous of the discipline of the Republican messaging operation.
几位民主党人告诉我，他们对共和党信息传递运作的纪律感到有点嫉妒。
And the Democrats aren't even in agreement about what went wrong in 2016.
民主党甚至对 2016 年出现的问题也没有达成一致。
In the early months of the Trump presidency, Democrats were still picking that apart, trying to figure out what went so badly and searching for anything-- anything-- that had gone well.
在特朗普担任总统的最初几个月，民主党人仍在对此进行分析，试图弄清楚到底是什么原因导致了如此糟糕的情况，并寻找任何进展顺利的事情。
One place it felt like they might find hope was with a small list of congressional districts, which a few staffers had started calling the Trump 12.
他们觉得他们可能会找到希望的一个地方是一小部分国会选区，一些工作人员开始将其称为“特朗普12区”。
The Trump 12 were 12 congressional districts where Democratic congressional reps had won, even though Donald Trump had also won there.
特朗普12区是民主党国会代表获胜的12个国会选区，尽管唐纳德·特朗普也在那里获胜。
Most of them were in the Midwest and Pennsylvania, states that were pivotal for Trump.
其中大多数位于中西部和宾夕法尼亚州，这些州对特朗普来说至关重要。
In hindsight, it seemed like Democrats who had held Trump back in those areas might have answers on how to reach white, working-class voters, rural white, working-class voters who'd abandoned the Democrats, which that's what led me to Cheri Bustos.
事后看来，在这些领域阻碍特朗普的民主党人似乎对如何吸引抛弃民主党的白人工薪阶层选民、农村白人工薪阶层选民有答案，这就是我找到切里·布斯托斯的原因。
Cheri Bustos is one of the Trump 12.
切里·布斯托斯是特朗普十二人组之一。
She represents a district that covers the northwest corner of Illinois.
她代表的是伊利诺伊州西北角的一个选区。
It's mostly rural, heavily white, home of John Deere.
这里大部分都是乡村地区，居民以白人为主，是约翰迪尔公司的所在地。
Caterpillar Manufacturing started there.
卡特彼勒制造公司就是从这里开始的。
Last fall, Trump won in Bustos' district.
去年秋天，特朗普在布斯托斯选区获胜。
But Bustos also won reelection by a 20-point landslide.
但布斯托斯也以 20 个百分点的压倒性优势赢得连任。
In May, Politico wrote a profile with the headline "The Secret Weapon Democrats Don't Know How to Use." The article's question-- Cheri Bustos has lessons about how to win in Trump territory, but are Democrats listening?
五月，Politico 写了一篇简介，标题是“民主党不知道如何使用的秘密武器”。文章的问题是：切里·布斯托斯（Cheri Bustos）有关于如何在特朗普领土上获胜的经验教训，但民主党人在听吗？
They were.
他们是。
She was chosen to co-chair the policy and communications committee in the House, three members who lead strategy and messaging for congressional Democrats.
她被选为众议院政策和沟通委员会的联合主席，该委员会的三名成员负责领导国会民主党的战略和信息传递。
The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee created a new position for her-- Chairwoman of Heartland Engagement, which, as someone from Wisconsin, can I just say nobody in the Midwest walks around talking about the Heartland.
民主党国会竞选委员会为她设立了一个新职位——“中心地带参与”主席，作为来自威斯康星州的人，我可以说中西部没有人到处谈论“中心地带”吗？
Also, like Democrats need to send an ambassador to part of their own country?
另外，就像民主党需要派大使到自己国家的部分地区一样？
Whatever.
任何。
In late June, I went to see Bustos in Illinois to ask her about the party and what she thinks it should be doing.
六月下旬，我去伊利诺伊州拜访布斯托斯，向她询问聚会的情况以及她认为聚会应该做什么。
Gosh, what a great turnout.
天哪，投票率真是太好了。
Ben Calhoun I caught up with Bustos at a union hall, one of these events she's been having called Build the Bench, where she tries to recruit and train people to run as Democrats, to create a farm team, something Democrats acknowledge they have not done a good job with lately.
本·卡尔霍恩（Ben Calhoun） 我在工会大厅见到了布斯托斯，她将其中一个活动称为“建立替补席”（Build the Bench），在那里她试图招募和培训人们以民主党人的身份参选，组建一支农场团队，民主党人承认他们最近在这方面做得不好。
You're not going to say, will you please give me $20.
你不会说，请给我 20 美元好吗？
If somebody's got a decent job, you're going to say, can you make $1,000 contribution?
如果某人有一份体面的工作，你会说，你能贡献 1,000 美元吗？
It's interesting to watch regular people encountering the less glamorous realities of running for office for the first time.
看到普通人第一次遭遇竞选公职时不那么光鲜亮丽的现实是很有趣的。
It's kind of like they're seeing the back door to a restaurant.
这有点像他们看到了一家餐馆的后门。
At one point, Bustos was talking to a woman who was thinking about running.
有一次，布斯托斯正在与一位正在考虑跑步的女士交谈。
The woman had shared a bio with Bustos.
该女子与布斯托斯分享了一份简历。
It explained she'd graduated top 10 in her college class.
这说明她在大学班上以前十名的成绩毕业。
So a couple things.
有几件事。
You've got a very good personal story.
你有一个非常好的个人故事。
And it's great that you were 10th in your class, but people don't want to know that you're smart.
你在班上排名第十真是太好了，但人们不想知道你很聪明。
And most people in our region are not college educated.
我们地区的大多数人都没有受过大学教育。
When I ran for city council, I had what my bio was, and I had where I went to college.
当我竞选市议会议员时，我有我的简历，我有我上大学的地方。
And I literally had somebody say, what?
确实有人问我，什么？
Do you think you're better than we are?
你觉得你比我们好吗？
I'm like, what do you mean?
我想，你什么意思？
He's like, well, so you went to college.
他说，好吧，所以你上了大学。
You think that's a big deal?
你认为这有什么大不了的？
So find a way to connect with people, and that's going to be your dad was a factory worker.
所以找到一种与人联系的方式，那就是你的父亲是一名工厂工人。
You're the granddaughter of a farmer.
你是农民的孙女。
Talk about how you can meet people where they are.
谈论如何在人们所在的地方认识他们。
Meet voters where they are.
与选民见面。
This is Bustos' core philosophy, her vision for what the party should be doing.
这是布斯托斯的核心理念，是她对党应该做什么的愿景。
In person, Bustos looks like a former college athlete, which she is, talks like a former health care executive, which she is, and compulsively parents like a mother of three, which she is.
就个人而言，布斯托斯看起来像一名前大学运动员（她确实如此），说话像一名前医疗保健主管（她确实如此），并且像三个孩子的母亲一样强迫性地为人父母。
She's the only person who's asked me as an adult if I need to go to the bathroom before getting in a car.
作为一个成年人，她是唯一一个在上车前问我是否需要去洗手间的人。
After a while, Bustos and I sat down away from everybody else.
过了一会儿，我和布斯托斯坐下来，远离其他人。
I don't think we, as Democrats, will fail if, number one, we start talking about jobs and the economy nonstop.
我认为，作为民主党人，如果第一，我们开始不停地谈论就业和经济，我们就不会失败。
That's, in my opinion as a Democrat, is what we need to do.
在我看来，作为一名民主党人，这就是我们需要做的。
The divisive issues that are out there-- I don't know why we would walk into a room and start with a divisive issue.
那里存在的分歧问题——我不知道为什么我们会走进一个房间并从一个分歧问题开始。
I don't go into a room and start my conversation by talking about the fact that I'm pro-choice, talking about guns, one way or another, because those are issues that tend to divide.
我不会走进一个房间，以某种方式开始谈论我支持堕胎这一事实，谈论枪支，因为这些问题往往会产生分歧。
But I do go into a room and I talk about my fight for good jobs, for better wages, better skills, and better jobs.
但我确实走进一个房间，谈论我为找到好工作、更好的工资、更好的技能和更好的工作而奋斗。
That is what we are fighting for everyday as Democrats.
这就是我们作为民主党人每天为之奋斗的目标。
So now, if somebody asked me my views on issues that are more divisive, I'll answer it honestly, and then I'll get back to talking about jobs and the economy.
所以现在，如果有人问我对更具分歧性的问题的看法，我会诚实地回答，然后我会回到谈论就业和经济。
I spent a lot of hours with Cheri Bustos at this point.
此时我和 Cheri Bustos 一起度过了很多时间。
And if I had to write her strategy for the Democrats on a napkin, it'd go like this.
如果我必须在餐巾纸上写下她对民主党的策略，我会这样写。
Congressional districts are so gerrymandered-- so many are solidly Democrat or solidly Republican-- that there are very few real swing districts like hers.
国会选区如此不公正地划分——很多都是坚定的民主党或坚定的共和党——以至于很少有像她所在的这样真正的摇摆选区。
And Bustos says voters in those districts are moderate.
布斯托斯表示，这些选区的选民都是温和派。
If the national party moves too far to the left, you know, Black Lives Matter, or immigrants' rights, or universal health care, well yeah, it will fire up people in big blue cities and on the coasts.
如果国家党在“黑人的命也是命”、“移民权利”、“全民医疗保健”等问题上走得太左，是的，这会激怒蓝色大城市和沿海地区的人们。
But Democrats already have those votes.
但民主党已经获得了这些选票。
In the districts they need, districts like hers, the ones they have to win, she says that will do you in.
在他们需要的地区，像她这样的地区，他们必须赢得的地区，她说这会让你受益匪浅。
So as a practical matter, keeping it centrist and moderate, that's the path to win back Congress and the presidency.
因此，作为一个实际问题，保持中间派和温和派是赢回国会和总统宝座的途径。
And plenty of Democrats are with Bustos on that.
许多民主党人在这一点上都支持布斯托斯。
The strategy isn't new.
这个策略并不新鲜。
Targeting moderates and centrist voters, that's been the Democrats' playbook since Bill Clinton.
针对温和派和中间派选民，这是自比尔·克林顿以来民主党的策略。
But in 2018, it is remarkable, I think, not for what it is, but for what it leaves out.
但在 2018 年，我认为它是引人注目的，不是因为它是什么，而是因为它遗漏了什么。
For starters, consider the most popular working politician in either party right now.
首先，考虑一下目前两党中最受欢迎的政治家。
Over the summer, following the defeat of the Republican repeal of Obamacare, Senator Bernie Sanders went on the offensive in a very non-Cheri Bustos way.
今年夏天，共和党废除奥巴马医改失败后，参议员伯尼·桑德斯以一种非常非切里·布斯托斯的方式发起攻势。
He did a tour that was all about universal health care, progressive style, Sweden-worshipping, single-payer health care.
他的巡演内容都是关于全民医疗保健、进步风格、瑞典崇拜、单一付款人医疗保健。
If Canada can do it, if Europe can do it, if Scandinavia can do it, we can do it in the United States.
如果加拿大能做到，如果欧洲能做到，如果斯堪的纳维亚半岛能做到，我们美国也能做到。
Health care is a right, not a privilege.
医疗保健是一项权利，而不是特权。
Sanders repeatedly drew crowds in the thousands in Democratic areas, but also deep red ones.
桑德斯多次在民主党选区吸引了数千名群众，但也吸引了深红色选区的人群。
Meanwhile, leftist activism surged in the wake of the Women's March from groups like Indivisible and Swing Left, to the whole assortment of Black Lives Matter groups, to protesters at airports all across the country.
与此同时，左翼激进主义在妇女游行之后激增，从“不可分割”和“左翼摇摆”等团体，到各种“黑人生命也是命”团体，再到全国各地机场的抗议者。
It is my honor to introduce to you the Congressman from Minnesota, Congressman Keith Ellison.
我很荣幸向大家介绍来自明尼苏达州的众议员基思·埃里森。
When I started following Cheri Bustos around, I also started following Keith Ellison.
当我开始关注切里·布斯托斯时，我也开始关注基思·埃里森。
Ellison's a congressman from Minnesota.
埃里森是明尼苏达州的国会议员。
He's black, the first Muslim elected to Congress.
他是黑人，是第一位当选国会议员的穆斯林。
He used to chair the Progressive Caucus in the House.
他曾担任众议院进步党核心小组主席。
He ran and lost for DNC chair, but he took the number two job running the DNC-- deputy chair.
他竞选民主党全国委员会主席，但落败，但他获得了民主党全国委员会的第二号职位——副主席。
This was Ellison talking to the Democratic Party of Vermont last year.
这是埃里森去年与佛蒙特州民主党的谈话。
The Republican Party is the party that wants to ban the Muslims and wall the Mexicans.
共和党是一个想要禁止穆斯林并隔离墨西哥人的政党。
It wants to keep transgender people from going to the bathroom.
它希望阻止跨性别者去洗手间。
The Republican Party under Trump and Trumpism is the party that says that liberty and justice for all, except Muslims, Mexicans, you know, fill in the blank, right?
特朗普和特朗普主义领导下的共和党声称，除了穆斯林和墨西哥人之外，所有人都享有自由和正义，你知道，这填补了空白，对吗？
The Democratic Party has to be the sharp edge, the pointy edge of saying liberty and justice for all.
民主党必须是为所有人争取自由和正义的锋利、锋利的锋芒。
We don't care, man.
我们不在乎，伙计。
These are our people, and we embrace them.
这些是我们的人民，我们拥抱他们。
That night, Ellison talked about transgender rights, gay rights, undocumented immigrants, Muslims, sexual harassment, pay inequity, single-payer health care.
那天晚上，埃里森谈到了变性人权利、同性恋权利、无证移民、穆斯林、性骚扰、薪酬不平等、单一付款人医疗保健。
And he specifically talked about the issue of race, how he felt that it was being used to divide the country.
他特别谈到了种族问题，以及他如何认为种族问题被用来分裂国家。
He talked about Charlottesville, about the President and Republicans condoning racism.
他谈到了夏洛茨维尔，谈到了总统和共和党人纵容种族主义。
Rather than trying to avoid an issue like race because it was hot, he gave a speech that drove right at it for that very reason.
他并没有因为事情很热门而试图回避种族等问题，而是因为这个原因发表了一场直击这一问题的演讲。
We have got to be that vanguard.
我们必须成为先锋。
We have got to be that righteous group of people who never stop fighting for equality, who believe that the best of our country is yet to come, and that genius is not tied up in any ethnic group, but is in all ethnic groups.
我们必须成为正义的一群人，永远不会停止为平等而奋斗，相信我们国家最好的尚未到来，天才不属于任何民族，而是属于所有民族。
This is what we have to stand for.
这是我们必须坚持的。
If I were to try to summarize Keith Ellison's argument for the party on a napkin, it might go like this.
如果我试图在餐巾纸上总结基思·埃里森（Keith Ellison）对政党的论点，事情可能会像这样。
We are in an extreme moment.
我们正处于一个极端的时刻。
Wealth in America hasn't been so unequally skewed since the 1920s.
自 20 年代以来，美国的财富分配从未如此不平等。
And people feel stuck and ground down, and they're mad.
人们感到被困住了、被压垮了，他们很生气。
And so they don't want the usual political talk.
所以他们不想要通常的政治谈话。
They want people who recognize how messed up things are and who are riled up too, and who won't shy away from conflict, who are going to propose things that are aggressive and bold.
他们希望人们认识到事情是多么混乱，也感到愤怒，并且不会回避冲突，能够提出积极而大胆的建议。
You're hearing one group of Democrats say, we need bold ideas that are going to solve your problem.
你听到一群民主党人说，我们需要大胆的想法来解决你的问题。
And you hear another say, well, uh, we don't need so much bold ideas.
你会听到另一个人说，嗯，我们不需要那么多大胆的想法。
We just need to, you know, just keep it real, tame.
你知道，我们只需要保持真实、温和。
And we don't want to offend anybody.
我们不想冒犯任何人。
We don't want to upset the Republicans.
我们不想让共和党人不高兴。
You're going to be confronted with a choice.
你将面临一个选择。
And you're going to say, I think one of the two groups is right.
你会说，我认为这两组中的一组是正确的。
I think people are going to say that the bold ideas people are right.
我认为人们会说，人们的大胆想法是正确的。
And most Democrats are going to understand that just incremental, tepid solutions to the deep, serious problems people are facing, it's just not going to be adequate.
大多数民主党人都会明白，对于人们面临的深刻而严重的问题，仅仅采取渐进的、不温不火的解决方案是不够的。
Progressives like Ellison question the conventional wisdom Democratic strategy of taking blue states for granted, and writing off red states as lost causes, and fighting only for swing districts and swing voters, he says it's hard to build a national party when you leave most people feeling ignored.
像埃里森这样的进步人士质疑民主党的传统策略，即认为蓝州是理所当然的，将红州视为失败的事业，只为摇摆选区和摇摆选民而战。他说，当你让大多数人感到被忽视时，很难建立一个全国性政党。
Ellison calls all of that a minimalist strategy designed to fail.
埃里森称所有这些都是旨在失败的极简主义策略。
Like other progressives, he points to Hillary Clinton.
和其他进步人士一样，他把矛头指向了希拉里·克林顿。
That was her strategy.
这就是她的策略。
In an op ed in The New York Times in June, Bernie Sanders reviewed where that strategy has gotten Democrats-- to their lowest point in decades.
伯尼·桑德斯 (Bernie Sanders) 在《纽约时报》六月的一篇评论中回顾了这一策略使民主党陷入几十年来最低点的情况。
He wrote, "If these results are not a clear manifestation of a failed political strategy, I don't know what is." Like Ellison, Sanders says Democrats need a strategy that seizes on what's got people worked up and excites them.
他写道，“如果这些结果不是政治策略失败的明显表现，我不知道什么才是失败的政治策略。”与埃里森一样，桑德斯表示，民主党人需要一项能够抓住人们兴奋的因素并激发他们兴奋的策略。
And that, they say, is how Democrats can rebuild, drive votes, and make a comeback.
他们说，这就是民主党如何重建、拉动选票并卷土重来。
So you had these very conflicting views of what the party needed.
所以你对党的需求有非常矛盾的看法。
And eight months after Donald Trump was elected, there was such an absence of an official Democratic message, or strategy, or plan that people started to measure the empty space where one might have been.
唐纳德·特朗普当选八个月后，民主党官方信息、战略或计划的缺失如此之大，以至于人们开始衡量自己可能存在的空白。
In July, The Washington Post and ABC News released this poll.
7月，《华盛顿邮报》和美国广播公司新闻网发布了这项民意调查。
It said 52% of Americans felt the only message Democrats had was that they were against Trump.
报告称，52% 的美国人认为民主党传达的唯一信息是他们反对特朗普。
Then finally, Democratic Party leaders stood on the bow of the boat and they pointed in a direction.
最后，民主党领导人站在船头，指明了方向。
It felt kind of like, all right, I know you're waiting.
感觉有点像，好吧，我知道你在等。
OK, OK.
好的，好的。
On July 24, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, along with four more senators and four more congressmen, left Washington DC.
7 月 24 日，参议院少数党领袖查克·舒默、众议院少数党领袖南希·佩洛西以及另外四名参议员和四名国会议员离开华盛顿特区。
They drove for an hour out into the country to this small town called Berryville in rural Virginia.
他们开车一个小时进入乡村，来到弗吉尼亚州乡村的一个名叫贝里维尔的小镇。
Schumer kicked things off.
舒默拉开了事情的序幕。
This is how he explained what they were there to do.
这就是他解释他们来这里做什么的方式。
Too many Americans don't know what we stand for.
太多美国人不知道我们代表什么。
Not after today.
今天之后就不会了。
Now, we know that now we're in the minority in both houses of Congress.
现在，我们知道现在我们在国会两院都属于少数派。
We can't delude anyone that this Congress will begin passing our priorities tomorrow.
我们不能欺骗任何人，让他们相信本届国会明天将开始通过我们的优先事项。
But we have to start presenting our vision for the country's future.
但我们必须开始提出我们对国家未来的愿景。
This is the start of a new version for the party.
这是党新版本的开始。
So what they proceeded to lay out, the bold, new version of the Democratic Party was a bunch of things you've heard Democrats talk about before.
因此，他们接下来提出的大胆的新版民主党是你以前听民主党人谈论过的一系列事情。
Here were the parts of the plan-- lowering prescription drug costs, infrastructure, job training, anti-trust legislation, raising wages.
该计划包括以下部分：降低处方药成本、基础设施、职业培训、反垄断立法、提高工资。
It was a long list.
这是一个很长的清单。
Just the materials explaining it, 10 pages, single-spaced-- it was a lot of ideas, but definitely nothing too edgy or provocative.
只是解释它的材料，10 页，单倍行距——其中有很多想法，但绝对没有太前卫或挑衅性的。
In that way, it weirdly felt like a message determined by subtraction.
这样一来，就感觉很奇怪，像是用减法决定的信息。
It was like a dish cooked up by taking politically-charged ingredients off the table, one by one, until no one would find it too salty or too spicy or too anything.
这就像一道菜，是把带有政治色彩的食材从餐桌上一一拿走，直到没有人觉得它太咸、太辣或其他什么。
What was surprising was how underwhelming the presentation was-- inoffensive, and yet sometimes tone-deaf.
令人惊讶的是，演讲的表现却平淡无奇——无伤大雅，但有时却显得五音不全。
You had all the men, folksy in their rolled-up shirtsleeves, and then Schumer telling a story in the middle of rural Virginia about the Yankees.
所有的男人都穿着卷起的衬衫，很亲切，然后舒默在弗吉尼亚州中部乡村讲述了一个关于洋基队的故事。
Now, last month, I went to a Yankees game.
现在，上个月，我去看了洋基队的比赛。
Just respectful note to the senator.
只是向参议员致以敬意。
America hates the Yankees.
美国讨厌洋基队。
Nancy Pelosi kept the salt of the Earth term going when she came up next and she namechecked the San Francisco Giants.
南希·佩洛西（Nancy Pelosi）在接下来的发言中点名了旧金山巨人队（San Francisco Giants），继续保持“地球之盐”一词。
The speeches had bright spots, but they were largely standard issue, pastel platitudes, a lot of talk about hardworking families left behind and training workers for 21st century economy.
这些演讲有亮点，但大多都是标准问题，都是柔和的陈词滥调，大量谈论勤劳的留守家庭和为 21 世纪经济培训工人。
There were only about 100 people.
当时只有大约100人。
This was in a park that could hold thousands.
这是在一个可以容纳数千人的公园里。
They dutifully clapped when they were supposed to.
他们在应该鼓掌的时候尽职尽责地鼓掌。
The Dems called their policy package "A Better Deal." It was a reference to FDR's New Deal, and it came with a slogan that people rattled off in their speeches.
民主党称他们的政策方案是“更好的协议”。这是对罗斯福新政的提及，它还附带了人们在演讲中大声喊出的口号。
Better jobs, better wages, and a better future.
更好的工作、更好的工资和更美好的未来。
Better jobs, better wages, a better future.
更好的工作，更好的工资，更好的未来。
Better jobs, better wages, and a better future.
更好的工作、更好的工资和更美好的未来。
The slogan, very similar to Papa John's "Better ingredients, better pizza," was mocked almost instantly.
这个口号与棒约翰的“更好的原料，更好的披萨”非常相似，几乎立刻就遭到了嘲笑。
Trolling Republican protesters held up pizza boxes that said "Better jobs, better wages, still Pelosi."
恶搞共和党抗议者举着披萨盒，上面写着“更好的工作，更高的工资，还是佩洛西。”
Cheri Bustos was there that day.
那天切里·布斯托斯也在场。
Bustos was actually one of the architects of the Better Deal.
布斯托斯实际上是“更好交易”的设计者之一。
When I asked her more about how the whole plan came together, she said it was a six-month process.
当我更多地问她整个计划是如何制定的时，她说这是一个为期六个月的过程。
It involved 180 members of Congress and all of the caucuses, like progressives, new Dems, Blue Dogs, Black Caucus, Hispanic Caucus.
它涉及 180 名国会议员和所有核心小组，如进步派、新民主党、蓝狗、黑人核心小组、西班牙裔核心小组。
But despite all of that inclusion, the thing that she described, it did in fact sound like subtraction.
但尽管她描述了所有这些内容，但实际上听起来确实像是减法。
She said health care, reproductive rights, civil rights, all of those things came up, but moderate Democrats resisted those things.
她说医疗保健、生殖权利、公民权利，所有这些事情都出现了，但温和的民主党人抵制这些事情。
This is the agenda, Bustos said.
布斯托斯说，这就是议程。
This is what we're going to be talking about from now until the midterm elections.
这就是我们从现在到中期选举期间要讨论的内容。
The next day, I tracked down Keith Ellison in Washington DC.
第二天，我在华盛顿特区找到了基思·埃里森。
I found him in the tunnels underneath the Capitol on his way to go vote.
我在国会大厦下面的隧道里发现了他，当时他正要去投票。
Can I ask you some things on the run here?
我能问你一些逃亡途中的事情吗？
Please, please.
拜托，拜托。
Ben Calhoun The first thing I wanted to ask-- as the highest-ranking progressive in the party's power structure, honestly, I was just curious why he hadn't been at the Better Deal rollout.
本·卡尔霍恩：我想问的第一件事是——作为党内权力结构中级别最高的进步人士，老实说，我只是好奇为什么他没有参加“更好的交易”的推出。
The stage had so many party leaders-- moderates, progressives from the Senate, the House, people in party leadership.
舞台上有很多政党领导人——温和派、参议院、众议院的进步人士、政党领导层的人士。
So I went, and there was part of me that was expecting you to be there.
所以我去了，我内心的一部分期待着你在那里。
Where?
在哪里？
Ben Calhoun The Better Deal rollout.
本·卡尔霍恩《更好的交易》推出。
Yeah.
是的。
Well, not everybody can do everything all the time.
嗯，并不是每个人都能一直做所有事情。
So no, I wasn't there, but it's all right.
所以不，我不在场，但没关系。
So yeah.
所以是的。
So--
所以——
At this point, Ellison shot me a look.
这时，埃里森看了我一眼。
He looked over his glasses, and he raised his eyebrows, pursed his mouth, like, I know you're asking me a reasonable question, and on a stage filled with party leaders, especially one with only one black member of Congress, I'm the number two guy at the DNC.
他透过眼镜看了看，扬起眉毛，撅起嘴，好像在说，我知道你在问我一个合理的问题，在一个挤满政党领导人的舞台上，尤其是只有一名黑人国会议员的舞台上，我是民主党全国委员会的二号人物。
It would be totally reasonable for you to think that I might be there.
你认为我可能在那里是完全合理的。
But do you see me not talking to you?
但你看到我没有跟你说话吗？
It made me laugh.
这让我笑了。
Um-- Keith Ellison I don't know what else to say.
嗯——基思·埃里森（Keith Ellison） 我不知道还能说什么。
[LAUGHING] What's that look?
[笑]那是什么表情？
Keith Ellison Next question.
基思·埃里森 下一个问题。
All right.
好的。
I asked Ellison what he thought of the Better Deal stuff.
我问埃里森他对“更好的交易”的看法如何。
He was polite, said he thought it was a good step.
他很有礼貌，说他认为这是一个很好的步骤。
Maybe it didn't satisfy everyone, but it was a start.
也许这并不能让所有人满意，但这是一个开始。
That day, I saw a labor activist tweet that there wasn't anything to help organized labor in the Better Deal.
那天，我看到一位劳工活动家推特说，“更好的交易”中没有任何东西可以帮助有组织的劳工。
Keith tweeted back, "Don't stress out about what's not in there.
基思在推特上回复道：“不要因为里面没有什么而感到压力。
Help us promote what is."
帮助我们宣传现状。”
I later found out Ellison hadn't been invited to the stage in Virginia.
后来我发现埃里森没有被邀请到弗吉尼亚州的舞台上。
And he wasn't the only one.
而且他不是唯一一个。
A staffer of a progressive Democrat pointed to another person who was missing-- Bernie Sanders.
进步民主党的一名工作人员指出了另一个失踪者——伯尼·桑德斯。
He laid out this imaginary alternative version of that day, if they'd had Sanders speak.
如果他们让桑德斯发言的话，他列出了那天的想象的替代版本。
He said, how many people were in Virginia?
他说，弗吉尼亚州有多少人？
100?
100？
He said, imagine a real crowd, a Sanders-sized crowd.
他说，想象一下真正的人群，桑德斯规模的人群。
If they put even more Democrats on the stage, lots of them, and they said, we are here to F'ing fight for you, it would have felt different.
如果他们让更多的民主党人登上舞台，很多人，然后他们说，我们是来为你们而战的，那感觉就会不一样了。
I asked him why he thought Sanders hadn't been there.
我问他为什么认为桑德斯不在场。
Well, they don't like him, he said.
好吧，他们不喜欢他，他说。
They don't get along with him.
他们与他合不来。
They don't like that he won't call himself a Democrat.
他们不喜欢他不称自己为民主党人。
Eventually, I put that question to Sanders' director of communications, who said, no, Sanders had not been invited.
最终，我向桑德斯的通讯总监提出了这个问题，他说，不，桑德斯没有被邀请。
When I asked him why, he said, quote, "I would love to know the answer to that question."
当我问他为什么时，他说：“我很想知道这个问题的答案。”
Bernie!
伯尼！
Bernie!
伯尼！
Bernie!
伯尼！
Ben Calhoun In August, I traveled with Senator Bernie Sanders on this tour he did.
本·卡尔霍恩 八月，我与参议员伯尼·桑德斯一起参加了他的这次旅行。
There were three events, all to build support for universal health care, which he was pushing under the label, "Medicare for All."
举办了三场活动，都是为了支持全民医疗保健，他以“全民医疗保险”为标签推动全民医疗保健。
This sound is from the first rally in Indianapolis, maybe 1,500 people in downtown Indy, on the steps of this huge Civil War monument.
这个声音来自印第安纳波利斯的第一次集会，大约有 1,500 人在印第安纳波利斯市中心这座巨大的内战纪念碑的台阶上举行。
The big crowd gathered as rain clouds got darker overhead.
当头顶上的雨云变得更暗时，一大群人聚集在一起。
And then moments after it started to rain, Sanders came into view, and it sounded like this.
然后下雨后不久，桑德斯出现在视野中，听起来就像这样。
Ben Calhoun There were four straight minutes of screaming.
本·卡尔霍恩 连续四分钟尖叫。
On every stop, Sanders pitches universal health care, but he also talks a lot about all kinds of issues-- race, poverty, immigration, voter suppression.
在每一站，桑德斯都会宣传全民医疗保健，但他也谈论了很多各种问题——种族、贫困、移民、选民压制。
And when he talks about the economy, it's not bland.
当他谈论经济时，并不平淡。
In fact, he seems like he's having a really hard time not getting mad.
事实上，他似乎很难不生气。
His tone is all, these things are epically messed up, and most Americans are getting screwed.
他的语气是，这些事情非常混乱，大多数美国人都被搞砸了。
And I'm so upset about it, in fact, that my default way of speaking is what most people consider shouting.
事实上，我对此感到非常沮丧，以至于我默认的说话方式是大多数人认为的喊叫方式。
The American people know that the economy is rigged.
美国人民知道经济受到操纵。
They are working longer hours.
他们的工作时间更长了。
And the rich get richer while the poor get poorer.
富人愈富，穷人愈穷。
They know that.
他们知道这一点。
And when we stand together, black and white and Latino, when we sat together with the Native American people and the Asian-Americans, and gay, and straight, and men, and women, when we stand together, when we have the guts to take on the billionaire class, when we have a vision for a new America, nothing, nothing will stop us.
当我们黑人、白人和拉丁裔人站在一起时，当我们与美洲原住民和亚裔美国人、同性恋、异性恋、男人和女人坐在一起时，当我们站在一起时，当我们有勇气挑战亿万富翁阶层时，当我们对新美国抱有愿景时，没有什么能阻止我们。
Thank you all, very much.
非常感谢大家。
After Indianapolis, it was onto Portsmouth, Ohio, a town of 20,000 where Sanders drew a crowd of over 1,000, in the middle of the workday, in a county that Donald Trump won by 37%.
离开印第安纳波利斯后，前往俄亥俄州朴茨茅斯，这是一个拥有 20,000 人的小镇，桑德斯在工作日中午吸引了超过 1,000 名群众，而唐纳德·特朗普在该县以 37% 的优势获胜。
Last stop, Detroit, a crowd of around 2,000 in a megachurch, with a spillover crowd in an annex.
最后一站是底特律，一座大型教堂里聚集了大约 2,000 人，附楼里还有大量人群。
One moment stuck out.
有一个时刻很突出。
It was near the end.
已经接近尾声了。
Do not let anybody try to convince you that the views that you've heard here tonight and your views, that we are somehow a small minority.
不要让任何人试图让你相信你今晚在这里听到的观点和你的观点，让你相信我们在某种程度上是少数。
We are not.
我们不是。
What the media does not talk about-- yes, there are divisions in this country on a number of issues.
媒体不谈论的事情——是的，这个国家在许多问题上存在分歧。
I won't deny that.
我不会否认这一点。
But on major issue after major issue, on every issue that we have talked about, the American people are on our side.
但在一个又一个的重大问题上，在我们谈论的每个问题上，美国人民都站在我们一边。
The polls back this up.
民意调查支持了这一点。
Like, there are polls showing that most Americans do favor universal health care.
比如，民意调查显示，大多数美国人确实支持全民医疗保健。
Most Americans-- get ready for this one, this number comes from a Fox News poll of all places.
大多数美国人——做好准备吧，这个数字来自福克斯新闻对各地的民意调查。
83% of Americans support a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.
83% 的美国人支持为无证移民提供获得公民身份的途径。
And 76% of Americans say rich people should pay more in taxes.
76% 的美国人表示，富人应该缴纳更多税款。
Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, and the DNC are supposedly in charge of the party, but it's Sanders who has the profile and the power base to determine what Democrats in the country are talking about.
查克·舒默、南希·佩洛西和民主党全国委员会据称负责该党，但桑德斯拥有影响力和权力基础来决定该国民主党人正在谈论什么。
This trip was evidence of just how true that is.
这次旅行证明了这一点是多么正确。
Over the summer, I talked to moderate Democrats in Congress who thought Sanders was going to push single-payer health.
今年夏天，我与国会中的温和派民主党人进行了交谈，他们认为桑德斯将推动单一付款人的健康。
They were dreading it.
他们很害怕它。
They worried they'd be pressured to support it, that it would become part of the Democrats' brand, part of what the party's about.
他们担心自己会被迫支持它，担心它会成为民主党品牌的一部分，成为该党宗旨的一部分。
And if it did, they'd get hammered back in their districts, which are more conservative.
如果真的发生了，他们就会在自己的地区受到重创，因为这些地区比较保守。
Cheri Bustos called it self-sabotage.
切里·布斯托斯称之为自我破坏。
We don't need any self-sabotage, she told me.
我们不需要任何自我破坏，她告诉我。
But leaning on Democrats to embrace single-payer was precisely Sanders' goal.
但让民主党接受单一支付者正是桑德斯的目标。
According to Sanders' director of communications, Sanders wanted to get Democratic senators to publicly support single-payer, including potential presidential candidates for 2020, because that way, he said, single-payer would become something that other candidates would feel pressured to support.
据桑德斯的通讯总监称，桑德斯希望让民主党参议员公开支持单一付款人，包括 2020 年潜在的总统候选人，因为他说，这样一来，单一付款人将成为其他候选人感到有压力支持的东西。
And over the summer, one by one, Democratic senators signed on, way more than they expected.
整个夏天，民主党参议员都一一签署了协议，远远超出了他们的预期。
They were hoping for five or six, but they got 10, then 15, eventually, a third of all Democratic senators.
他们原本希望得到五到六名参议员，但他们得到了十名，然后是十五名，最终占了所有民主党参议员的三分之一。
The list included potential presidential candidates like Cory Booker, Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, and Kirsten Gillibrand.
该名单包括科里·布克、卡玛拉·哈里斯、伊丽莎白·沃伦和克尔斯滕·吉利布兰德等潜在的总统候选人。
At Sanders' final stop in Detroit, the Congressman hosting the event had put out the Democratic Party's Better Deal materials.
在桑德斯底特律的最后一站，主持活动的国会议员拿出了民主党的“更好的交易”材料。
They were laid out right next to the front door, as people streamed in.
当人们涌入时，它们就放在前门旁边。
There were these huge, conspicuous piles.
那里有这些巨大而显眼的堆积物。
But over several hours, I didn't see anyone pick them up.
但几个小时过去了，我没有看到有人来接它们。
As the crowd filtered out, I circled back.
当人群散去时，我绕了回来。
From what I could see, they hadn't been touched.
据我所知，它们没有被碰过。
A few days later, I got to see Cheri Bustos pitching the Better Deal to a newspaper editorial board in her home state.
几天后，我看到 Cheri Bustos 向她家乡的一家报纸编辑委员会推销“更好的交易”。
Bustos laid out the whole thing, the Better Deal, how it was created, all the involvement from congressional Democrats, all the different parts of it.
布斯托斯列出了整个事情，更好的协议，它是如何创建的，国会民主党人的所有参与，它的所有不同部分。
We want to be in a position to help create 10 million good-paying, full-time jobs.
我们希望能够帮助创造 1000 万个高薪全职工作岗位。
There are still people hurting, and I think we need to acknowledge that and say that we want to do something about that.
仍然有人受到伤害，我认为我们需要承认这一点，并表示我们想为此做点什么。
Right.
正确的。
Well, Donald Trump says that, too.
嗯，唐纳德·特朗普也这么说。
It's hard to hear.
很难听清。
The newspaper's political reporter, this guy named Chuck Sweeney, is saying, "Right.
该报的政治记者，这个名叫查克·斯威尼的人，正在说：“是的。
Well, Donald Trump says that too."
嗯，唐纳德·特朗普也这么说。”
Donald Trump says that too.
唐纳德·特朗普也这么说。
He says exactly the same thing.
他说的完全一样。
Too many people are still out of work.
太多人仍然失业。
You know, we need to do something about bringing back jobs.
你知道，我们需要采取一些措施来恢复就业机会。
And that's why we talk about full-time, good-paying jobs.
这就是为什么我们谈论全职、高薪工作。
Right.
正确的。
But-- Cheri Bustos Well, I think there are people hurting.
但是——Cheri Bustos 嗯，我认为有人受伤了。
I don't know anybody that doesn't talk about that, so--
我不知道有谁不谈论这个，所以——
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Ben Calhoun Remember, the whole point of the Better Deal was to explain what Democrats stand for, to define Democrats in terms that would resonate in places exactly like this one.
本·卡尔霍恩 请记住，《更好的协议》的全部意义在于解释民主党的主张，用能在像这里这样的地方引起共鸣的术语来定义民主党。
Bustos forged ahead.
布斯托斯勇往直前。
Eventually, she started talking about how she's pro-business, one of the things that makes her moderate.
最终，她开始谈论她是如何支持商业的，这也是她变得温和的原因之一。
She told the editorial board she thought it would be a good idea to lower the corporate tax rate.
她告诉编辑委员会，她认为降低公司税率是个好主意。
This was months before Donald Trump's corporate tax cut.
这是唐纳德·特朗普削减公司税的几个月前。
So Democrats do support reducing corporate tax rates?
那么民主党人确实支持降低公司税率吗？
Yeah, it's got bipartisan support, this--
是的，它得到了两党的支持，这——
What should the rate be?
利率应该是多少？
Cheri Bustos You know, I don't know.
切里·布斯托斯 你知道，我不知道。
I don't know what it should be, but ours is one of the highest in the world.
我不知道它应该是什么，但我们的是世界上最高的之一。
Right.
正确的。
Cheri Bustos And so as long as it's highest in the world, we're not going to have corporations who are going to bring that money home.
Cheri Bustos 因此，只要它是世界上最高的，我们就不会有公司将这些钱带回家。
So there's got to be some incentive.
所以必须有一些激励。
OK.
好的。
I didn't-- see, I think, once again, I have no idea what the Democratic Party actually stands for anymore.
我想，我再一次不知道民主党到底代表什么了。
I didn't during the 2016 campaign, either, which is probably why it wasn't the winning campaign.
我在 2016 年竞选期间也没有这样做，这可能就是为什么它没有获胜的原因。
A couple top Democrats told me things usually get messy after a party loses the presidency.
几位民主党高层人士告诉我，一个政党失去总统职位后，事情通常会变得混乱。
The thing is, our national parties are chaotic.
问题是，我们的国家政党很混乱。
When a party loses the presidency, it's like you take the sun out of the solar system.
当一个政党失去总统职位时，就像你把太阳从太阳系中夺走了一样。
Everyone wants to go in their own direction until a new, definitive leader for the party emerges.
每个人都想朝着自己的方向前进，直到出现一位新的、明确的党领导人。
Even with their steakhouse meeting, the Republicans had their own kind of chaos during the Obama years, with the Tea Party and moderates getting primaried out of office.
即使举行了牛排馆会议，共和党在奥巴马执政期间也遇到了自己的混乱，茶党和温和派在初选中下台。
For the Democrats, in the meantime, the party is torn.
与此同时，对于民主党来说，该党陷入了分裂。
It's putting money into both of these strategies at the same time.
它同时将资金投入到这两种策略中。
Cheri Bustos just released a report called "Hope From the Heartland." It's kind of a blueprint for Democrats to turn things around in the Midwest.
切里·布斯托斯刚刚发布了一份名为“来自心脏地带的希望”的报告。这是民主党扭转中西部局势的蓝图。
Keith Ellison got the party to invest a chunk of its limited funds in grassroots organizing-- not in targeted swing districts, but across all 50 states, states as red as Wyoming and as blue as Vermont.
基思·埃里森(Keith Ellison)让该党将其有限的资金中的一大部分投入到草根组织中——不是在目标摇摆选区，而是在所有50个州，红州如怀俄明州，蓝州如佛蒙特州。
I called them both last week to ask if the Democrats' victories this fall in Alabama, in Virginia, in New Jersey, if that shed any light on which path the party should take going into the midterms.
上周我给他们俩打电话，询问民主党今年秋天在阿拉巴马州、弗吉尼亚州和新泽西州的胜利是否表明该党进入中期选举的道路。
Cheri told me they clearly demonstrated that she was right about the party's direction.
谢里告诉我，他们清楚地表明她对党的方向的看法是正确的。
Keith, no surprise, said they proved his vision of the future is correct.
基思毫不奇怪地表示，他们证明了他对未来的愿景是正确的。
I'm more convinced than ever, he said.
“我比以往任何时候都更有信心，”他说。
More convinced than ever.
比以往任何时候都更有信心。
Ben Calhoun is one of the producers of our program.
本·卡尔霍恩是我们节目的制作人之一。
Credits Ira Glass Our program was produced today by Robyn Semien.
图片来源：Ira Glass 今天我们的节目由 Robyn Semien 制作。
The people who put our show together include Elna Baker, Elise Bergerson, Ben Calhoun, Whitney Dangerfield, Stephanie Foo, Michelle Harris, Seth Lind, Miki Meek, Alvin Melathe, Jonathan Menjivar, Alissa Shipp, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Julie Whitaker.
制作我们节目的人员包括 Elna Baker、Elise Bergerson、Ben Calhoun、Whitney Dangerfield、Stephanie Foo、Michelle Harris、Seth Lind、Miki Meek、Alvin Melathe、Jonathan Menjivar、Alissa Shipp、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney 和 Julie Whitaker。
Our senior producer is Brian Reed.
我们的高级制片人是布莱恩·里德。
Our managing editor is Susan Burton.
我们的总编辑是苏珊·伯顿。
This is the last week at our show for Jonathan Menjivar, who you heard in Act One.
这是乔纳森·门吉瓦 (Jonathan Menjivar) 演出的最后一周，您在第一幕中就听到了他的声音。
He's been here for seven years.
他在这里已经七年了。
He's added funny, smart, elegant writing to all of our stories, including mine.
他为我们所有的故事（包括我的）添加了有趣、聪明、优雅的写作。
He was in charge of music for the show.
他负责该剧的音乐。
We'll miss him.
我们会想念他的。
We wish him the best at his new job, at a podcast company called Pineapple Street Media.
我们祝愿他在一家名为 Pineapple Street Media 的播客公司的新工作中一切顺利。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, I think we're going to have to stop going to eat in Little Italy.
你知道，我认为我们将不得不停止去小意大利吃饭。
He is just so embarrassing whenever the server comes around.
每当服务员过来时，他都感到非常尴尬。
Me hablo mucho Italiano.
我是意大利人。
Entiendo un poquito Español.
Entiendo un poquito Español。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。