631: So a Monkey and a Horse Walk Into a Bar - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #631 | November 10, 2017 631: So a Monkey and a Horse Walk Into a Bar Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 631 集 | 2017 年 11 月 10 日 631：猴子和马走进酒吧 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass So a horse walks into a movie theater, gets his popcorn and a Diet Coke, and sits down in one of the few seats that are left.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 于是，一匹马走进电影院，拿了爆米花和健怡可乐，然后在剩下的几个座位之一上坐下。
He realizes right away there's a cow sitting directly in front of him wearing this huge hat, totally inappropriate to wear indoors, one of the big, tall Stetson hats, completely blocking his view.
他立刻意识到有一头牛坐在他正前方，戴着这顶巨大的帽子，完全不适合在室内佩戴，其中一顶又大又高的斯泰森帽，完全挡住了他的视线。
So the horse taps the cow on the shoulder.
于是，马拍了拍牛的肩膀。
Excuse me?
打扰一下？
Cow doesn't budge.
牛不为所动。
No response at all.
完全没有反应。
So again, the horse taps him on the shoulder.
马再次拍拍他的肩膀。
Excuse me?
打扰一下？
The cow is like ice.
牛就像冰一样。
He's like a statue.
他就像一尊雕像。
So OK, one more time.
好吧，再来一次。
He taps him on the shoulder.
他拍拍他的肩膀。
Hey, can you take off your hat?
嘿，你能把帽子摘下来吗？
Cow turns around.
牛转过身来。
And he's like, oh, my god, it's a talking horse.
他就像，哦，天哪，这是一匹会说话的马。
Not the greatest joke in the world.
这不是世界上最大的笑话。
But what I love about that joke is that for once in the joke, the animals acknowledge that we should not be having animals talking in jokes.
但我喜欢这个笑话的地方在于，在这个笑话中，动物们第一次承认我们不应该让动物讲笑话。
That's the actual punchline of the joke.
这才是这个笑话真正的笑点。
That's the premise.
这是前提。
We as human beings are so constantly blurring the line between animals and people in kids' stories, and movies, and the way we talk to our pets.
作为人类，我们在儿童故事、电影以及我们与宠物交谈的方式中不断模糊动物和人之间的界限。
We can't help ourselves.
我们无法帮助自己。
And we do it so much we even have jokes where the animals call us out on it.
我们经常这样做，甚至还开玩笑说动物会大声斥责我们。
And I bring this up because that's our show today.
我提出这个问题是因为这就是我们今天的节目。
Today in our program, we have two stories of human beings not just trying to blur the line between people and animals but trying to erase that line completely.
今天在我们的节目中，我们有两个故事，讲述人类不仅试图模糊人与动物之间的界限，而且试图完全消除这条界限。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us, people.
和我们在一起吧，人们。
Act One, Monkey in the Middle.
第一幕，中间的猴子。
So there's some places where animals almost never go, places that are designed by humans for humans.
所以有些地方是动物几乎从来不去的地方，是人类为人类设计的。
This act ends up in a place like that, but it starts about as far from there as you can get.
这一幕的结尾是在一个类似的地方，但它的开始位置离你能到达的地方很远。
Dana Chivvis explains.
达纳·奇维斯解释道。
Our story begins deep in the rainforests of Indonesia on an island called Sulawesi.
我们的故事始于印度尼西亚热带雨林深处的一个名叫苏拉威西岛的岛屿。
A few years ago, the photographer David Slater traveled there from his home in England to photograph a troop of monkeys.
几年前，摄影师大卫·斯莱特从英国的家中前往那里拍摄一群猴子。
I'd gone a whole day just following them into the thick of the forest, through the tangles and the vines and the muddy undergrowth and the cobwebs and the poisonous snakes.
我花了一整天的时间跟着他们进入密林，穿过纠结的藤蔓、泥泞的灌木丛、蜘蛛网和毒蛇。
Oh, man.
哦，伙计。
David Slater You name it, I had to go through it.
大卫·斯莱特 你能想到的，我都必须经历它。
And it was just so amazing just to be like a monkey.
能像一只猴子一样真是太神奇了。
I was a monkey honestly.
老实说我是一只猴子。
I had met monkeys before, like I said, all over the world.
正如我所说，我以前在世界各地都见过猴子。
And I know a little bit about monkey etiquette and showing your teeth-- not to show your teeth, not to stare them in the face.
我知道一些关于猴子礼仪和露出牙齿的知识——不要露出牙齿，不要盯着它们的脸。
Yeah, this is one of the secrets, actually, of being able to get good photography is making the animal relaxed.
是的，事实上，这是获得好的摄影作品的秘密之一，就是让动物放松。
There was one shot David really wanted to get-- a full face portrait with a wide angle lens.
有一个镜头是大卫真正想要得到的——一张用广角镜头拍摄的全脸肖像。
But every time he got close to taking the shot, the monkeys would look away.
但每次他接近射击时，猴子都会把目光移开。
So after two days of these near misses, he changed strategies.
因此，在经历了两天的惊险事件后，他改变了策略。
He put his camera on a tripod and threw down some cookies to try to entice the monkeys over.
他把相机放在三脚架上，扔下一些饼干，试图引诱猴子过来。
He was hoping they'd get curious about the camera and start pushing the button themselves.
他希望他们会对相机感到好奇并开始自己按下按钮。
They were curious.
他们很好奇。
They were not pushing the button.
他们没有按下按钮。
So David attached a cable with a button on the end of it to the camera.
因此，大卫将一根末端带有按钮的电缆连接到相机上。
The monkeys liked that.
猴子们喜欢这样。
They started playing with it, putting it in their mouths, fighting over it.
他们开始玩弄它，把它放进嘴里，为它打架。
And of course when it got pressed, they automatically looked into the lens.
当然，当按下按钮时，他们会自动看向镜头。
And the fact that it's going ch, ch, ch, ch, ch, it's monkey language.
事实上，它是 ch、ch、ch、ch、ch，这是猴子的语言。
They fired off a few shots.
他们开了几枪。
David reviewed them.
大卫审阅了它们。
They weren't bad, a little out of focus.
它们还不错，只是有点失焦。
So he adjusted the settings and put the camera back.
于是他调整了设置，把相机放了回去。
The monkeys were into the whole project by now.
猴子们现在已经融入了整个项目。
In fact, they were getting a little too excited.
事实上，他们有点太兴奋了。
They almost knocked the tripod over.
他们差点把三脚架撞翻。
So David laid down on his stomach and stretched his arm out to steady the tripod with two fingers.
于是大卫趴了下来，伸出手臂用两根手指稳住了三脚架。
A few other monkeys noticed their strange new friend lying full out on the floor and hopped onto his back.
其他几只猴子注意到他们陌生的新朋友完全躺在地板上，然后跳到他的背上。
So I had monkeys on my back whilst I'm trying to keep my camera from being knocked, while some monkeys, or two or three monkeys, are trying to play with the button.
所以当我试图防止相机被撞到时，我的背上有猴子，而一些猴子，或者两三只猴子，正在尝试玩按钮。
And all of a sudden, I heard the camera going off.
突然，我听到摄像机响了。
And I didn't dare.
但我不敢。
I knew that if I looked up at them, they would probably look away.
我知道如果我抬头看他们，他们可能会移开视线。
So I let them click it, click it, click it.
所以我让他们点击它，点击它，点击它。
And I sort of very carefully looked up to see them pulling these amazing contorted faces, like howling mouths, and the smiling mouth, and more besides.
我非常仔细地抬头看，看到他们拉着这些令人惊奇的扭曲的脸，比如嚎叫的嘴，微笑的嘴，等等。
The monkeys were taking selfies-- amazing, beautiful, weird selfies.
猴子们在自拍——令人惊叹的、美丽的、奇怪的自拍照。
I just wanted it to go on forever really.
我真的只是希望它永远持续下去。
When David finally stood up and checked their work, he saw that the shots weren't just regular, old, everyday selfies.
当大卫最终站起来检查他们的工作时，他发现这些照片不仅仅是普通的、旧的、日常的自拍照。
They weren't that guy at the gym taking pictures of his muscles in the mirror.
他们不是那个在健身房对着镜子拍肌肉照片的人。
These were next level, transcendentally good.
这些是下一个层次，非常好。
They somehow escape the bounds of selfie and enter the realm of art.
他们以某种方式逃离了自拍的界限，进入了艺术的领域。
There was one shot in particular that caught David's eye.
有一个镜头特别引起了大卫的注意。
The monkey's face is very close to the camera looking straight into the lens.
猴子的脸距离相机非常近，直视镜头。
It's hair perfectly coiffed.
它的头发被完美地梳理过。
Eyes friendly, big and round and amber.
眼睛又大又圆，琥珀色，友善。
All of which are nice details, and details are important.
所有这些都是很好的细节，细节很重要。
But the focus of this selfie, the main event, is the monkey's self-satisfied grin-- teeth that are too big for its mouth with gaps between them, a real grin, like he knows he's smiling for a picture.
但这张自拍照的焦点，即主要事件，是猴子得意的笑容——牙齿对于它的嘴来说太大了，牙齿之间有缝隙，真正的笑容，就像他知道自己在为拍照而微笑一样。
I just saw it on the front cover of National Geographic or something like that.
我刚刚在国家地理杂志的封面或类似的东西上看到了它。
And I just thought, I need to get this to my agents.
我只是想，我需要把这个交给我的经纪人。
David and his agents put out a press release about the selfies.
大卫和他的经纪人发布了有关这些自拍照的新闻稿。
They thought they could grab people's attention with the photos and then use the opportunity to send a message about conservation.
他们认为可以通过照片吸引人们的注意力，然后利用这个机会传达有关保护的信息。
And also they wanted to sell the pictures, of course.
当然，他们也想出售这些照片。
These monkeys, crested black macaques, are considered to be critically endangered, which is just one step before extinct in the wild.
这些猴子，即黑冠猕猴，被认为是极度濒危物种，距离野外灭绝仅一步之遥。
They've lost 80% of their population in the last 40 years because of humans, which is why David went to Indonesia in the first place.
在过去 40 年里，由于人类的原因，他们已经失去了 80% 的人口，这就是 David 最初前往印度尼西亚的原因。
He wanted to take photographs that would inspire us humans into caring more about these little monkeys, to stop killing them.
他想拍摄一些照片来激励我们人类更多地关心这些小猴子，停止杀害它们。
The selfies didn't end up on the cover of National Geographic, but the British tabloids were interested.
这些自拍照最终没有登上《国家地理》的封面，但英国小报很感兴趣。
The Daily Mail was the first newspaper to publish the story about the selfies.
《每日邮报》是第一份发表有关自拍照故事的报纸。
This was in 2011.
这是2011年的事。
Within an hour, it was all over your country, Australia, Germany.
一个小时之内，它就传遍了你们的国家，澳大利亚、德国。
I was getting emails everywhere.
我到处都收到电子邮件。
My inbox went crazy.
我的收件箱变得疯狂。
People wanting to know the story, wanted to use the image.
人们想要了解这个故事，想要使用图像。
Literally, my phone was hot with calls.
从字面上看，我的手机因通话而发烫。
Over the next few months, the monkey selfies sold pretty well.
在接下来的几个月里，猴子自拍照卖得很好。
David was licensing them to publications and selling prints.
大卫授权他们出版并销售印刷品。
And then one day, he goes online to research the monkeys.
然后有一天，他上网研究猴子。
I started to just search crested black macaque one day in the Google.
有一天，我开始在谷歌上搜索黑冠猕猴。
And there was Wikipedia, top of the list as always.
还有维基百科，一如既往地位居榜首。
I clicked on that, and there's my image.
我点击了它，这就是我的图像。
And I thought, where have they got this from?
我想，他们从哪里得到这个？
Have they been to Caters News Agency and paid a license fee for it?
他们是否去过 Caters News Agency 并为其支付了许可费？
They had not.
他们没有。
David Slater So I sent them a letter.
大卫·斯莱特所以我给他们写了一封信。
Sent them a letter saying, I think you're using this without a license fee.
给他们发了一封信，说，我认为您使用这个无需支付许可费。
Could you show me one, or would you pay?
你能给我看一张吗，或者你愿意付钱吗？
They wrote back, saying, this image we believe is public domain.
他们回信说，我们认为这张图片属于公共领域。
In other words, anyone could use it without David's permission, for free.
换句话说，任何人都可以在未经大卫许可的情况下免费使用它。
To David, that was just stealing.
对大卫来说，那只是偷窃。
He makes a living from selling his pictures.
他靠卖画谋生。
So it was really helpful to have one that was such a hit.
因此，拥有一款如此受欢迎的产品确实很有帮助。
But now, anyone could download it from Wikipedia and hang it on their wall or print it in their publication.
但现在，任何人都可以从维基百科下载它并将其挂在墙上或打印在出版物中。
Wikipedia's opinion is that information on the internet should be free.
维基百科的观点是互联网上的信息应该是免费的。
And David soon learned that they had decided the selfie was in the public domain--
大卫很快得知他们已经决定这张自拍照属于公共领域——
So the monkey was technically the creator of the photo.
所以从技术上讲，猴子是照片的创作者。
But in Wikipedia's assessment, monkeys can't own copyrights.
但根据维基百科的评估，猴子不能拥有版权。
Hence, the photo was free and fair for all to use.
因此，这张照片是免费且公平的供所有人使用。
It belonged to the internet.
它属于互联网。
David was baffled.
大卫很困惑。
He thought--
他想——
Well, surely I've got the copyright.
嗯，我当然有版权。
I set it all up.
我把一切都设置好了。
I've got the intent.
我已经有这个意图了
I had the creativity.
我有创造力。
All the monkey did is press the button.
猴子所做的就是按下按钮。
Wikipedia includes a note below the photo, which reads, quote, "This file is in the public domain because as the work of a non-human animal it has no human author in whom copyright is vested." This decision of Wikipedia's, to declare the photo public domain, that was the opening volley in the monkey selfie battle to come.
维基百科在照片下方添加了一条注释，其中写道：“该文件属于公共领域，因为作为非人类动物的作品，它没有受版权保护的人类作者。”维基百科决定将这张照片宣布为公共领域，这是即将到来的猴子自拍大战的开场。
It was the moment when mother nature was shoved aside, and human nature, with its overstuffed baggage of laws and opinions and domination, took a seat.
在那一刻，大自然被推到一边，人性带着法律、意见和统治的沉重包袱，占据了席位。
David went on the offensive, assembled a team of lawyers, studied up on copyright law.
大卫发起进攻，组建了一支律师团队，研究了版权法。
He even looked into finding venture capitalists to fund a lawsuit against Wikipedia.
他甚至考虑寻找风险投资家来资助针对维基百科的诉讼。
Wikimedia-- that's the foundation that owns Wikipedia-- they just gave him the finger.
维基媒体——这是拥有维基百科的基金会——他们只是对他竖起了中指。
This was at their big conference in London.
这是他们在伦敦举行的大型会议上。
It's called Wikimania.
它被称为维基百科。
One of the founders, Jimmy Wales, was there.
创始人之一吉米·威尔士也在场。
I soon got to know, from the good Wikipedians out there, that Jimmy Wales and many of the delegates were mocking me by printing out my image on great big boards that were placed all over the conference facility.
我很快从优秀的维基百科那里得知，吉米·威尔士和许多代表在嘲笑我，他们把我的照片打印在遍布会议设施的大板上。
And Jimmy Wales and various other people were encouraging the delegates to take selfies with my selfie.
吉米·威尔士和其他人鼓励代表们和我一起自拍。
That's just mean.
这太卑鄙了。
David Slater There's quite a few of these images around the place on the internet, but the one with Jimmy Wales is particularly odious.
大卫·斯莱特（David Slater） 互联网上有很多这样的图片，但吉米·威尔士的那张尤其令人厌恶。
Wait.
等待。
I want to look that up really fast here.
我想在这里快速查找一下。
Hang on.
不挂断。
Yeah.
是的。
Dana Chivvis Jimmy Wales monkey selfie.
达纳·奇维斯·吉米·威尔士猴子自拍照。
Jimmy Wales Wikimania.
吉米·威尔士维基百科。
Dana Chivvis Here we go.
达纳·奇维斯 我们开始吧。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Look at that.
看看那个。
If you type Jimmy Wales monkey selfie into the Google, you'll find a photo of an adult male human holding his phone up in one hand and the monkey selfie in the other right next to his face.
如果你在谷歌中输入吉米·威尔士的猴子自拍照，你会发现一张成年男性一手举着手机的照片，另一只手拿着猴子的自拍照，就在他的脸旁边。
And he's got his lips puckered up like a duck.
他的嘴唇像鸭子一样撅起。
He looks ridiculous.
他看起来很可笑。
Now, is he-- is that face he's making-- is that--
现在，他是——他脸上的表情是——
Well, it's like a duck face.
嗯，就像一张鸭子脸。
I don't know where that comes from.
我不知道那是从哪里来的。
I don't either.
我也不。
David Slater But a lot of people seem to do this duck lips.
David Slater 但是很多人似乎都做这个鸭唇。
How did you feel when you saw that Jimmy Wales selfie with your monkey selfie?
当你看到吉米·威尔士和你的猴子的自拍照时，你有什么感觉？
So angry.
很生气。
Dana Chivvis David was fighting Goliath.
达纳·奇维斯·大卫正在与歌利亚作战。
And then one day, the battle took on epic new proportions.
然后有一天，战斗呈现出史诗般的新规模。
It was like King Kong walked onto the scene, and now David had to battle him too.
就好像金刚来到了现场，现在大卫也必须与他战斗。
The dispute with Wikimedia had generated some press in the UK.
与维基媒体的争端在英国引起了一些媒体的关注。
And one day, David's wife was online.
有一天，大卫的妻子上线了。
There it was.
就在那里。
Photographer being sued by a monkey.
摄影师被猴子起诉。
You found out the monkey was suing you because your wife found it online.
你发现猴子正在起诉你，因为你的妻子在网上发现了它。
Yeah.
是的。
Just as I found out Wikipedia was stealing it because I stumbled across it, I also stumbled across the fact that I was being sued by a monkey.
正如我因为偶然发现维基百科而发现它正在窃取它一样，我也偶然发现了我被一只猴子起诉的事实。
The monkey in the selfie photos was suing him for copyright infringement with the help of PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.
自拍照中的猴子在善待动物组织的帮助下起诉他侵犯版权。
David called his lawyers and said--
大卫打电话给他的律师说——
Look.
瞧。
Have you seen what's happening now?
你看到现在发生的事情了吗？
What can we do?
我们能做什么？
And they said, Dave, this is clearly an April Fools'.
他们说，戴夫，这显然是愚人节。
Somebody is having you on.
有人在勾引你。
They said, just sit back.
他们说，坐下吧。
Let's see what happens.
让我们看看会发生什么。
But do not respond to it.
但不要回应它。
And you can't-- you've got nothing to worry about until you get served papers.
你不能——在你收到文件之前你没有什么可担心的。
Let's see what happens.
让我们看看会发生什么。
Right.
正确的。
David Slater And sure enough, one afternoon I was at home.
大卫·斯莱特 果然，一天下午我在家。
And there's a knock at the door.
有人敲门。
And a man in a black suit was standing in my porch way.
一个穿着黑色西装的男人站在我的门廊上。
I opened the door.
我打开门。
He thrust a large A4-sized white envelope in my hand.
他把一个A4大小的白色大信封塞到我手里。
And he says, I've been instructed to pass these to you.
他说，我奉命把这些交给你。
So I said, what are they?
所以我说，它们是什么？
And I opened it in front of him.
我当着他的面打开了它。
And I took it out.
我把它拿出来。
And I said to him, do you know what this is?
我对他说，你知道这是什么吗？
And he said, not really.
他说，不是真的。
I said, I'm being sued by a monkey.
我说，我被猴子起诉了。
And I showed him.
我向他展示了。
And he started laughing.
他开始大笑。
And we had a little chat.
我们聊了一会儿。
Because he was just a local from a local firm down the road from me.
因为他只是我附近一家当地公司的当地人。
And he went on his merry way.
然后他继续他的快乐之路。
I've read the complaint.
我已阅读该投诉。
It's kind of weird.
这有点奇怪。
You flip through pages and pages of legalese about copyright law.
你翻阅了一页又一页关于版权法的法律术语。
And then at the end when you get to the exhibits, it's just a bunch of monkey selfies, grinning, serious, howling monkey selfies-- like a legal document put together by Curious George.
最后，当你到达展品时，看到的只是一堆猴子自拍照，有咧嘴笑的、有严肃的、有嚎叫的猴子自拍照——就像好奇的乔治整理的一份法律文件。
The monkey, whose name is Naruto, was suing David through his next friends, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.
这只名叫鸣人的猴子通过他的下一个朋友“善待动物组织”起诉了大卫。
The case is officially called Naruto, a Crested Macaque, by and through his Next Friends, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, Inc., v David John Slater, an Individual.
该案件的正式名称为“火影忍者，一只凤头猕猴”，由他的“下一个朋友”、“善待动物组织”诉个人大卫·约翰·斯莱特提出。
In legal parlance, next friend is a status like guardian.
用法律术语来说，下一个朋友是一种类似于监护人的地位。
When someone can't represent themselves in court, the next friend can step in for them.
当某人无法在法庭上代表自己时，下一个朋友可以代替他们。
That's just the same as if it was a baby or a disabled adult who couldn't speak or represent himself.
这就像一个婴儿或一个无法说话或代表自己的残疾成年人一样。
I see.
我懂了。
David Slater That's not unusual in human law.
大卫·斯莱特：这在人类法律中并不罕见。
PETA has a reputation for pulling stunts to attract attention to the plight of animals.
善待动物组织 (PETA) 因通过表演特技来吸引人们对动物困境的关注而闻名。
Once, they dumped horse manure on the sidewalk outside Gordon Ramsay's restaurant in London after a guest on his cooking show made a dish with horse meat.
有一次，戈登·拉姆齐 (Gordon Ramsay) 伦敦餐厅的一位嘉宾用马肉做了一道菜肴后，他们将马粪倾倒在戈登·拉姆齐 (Gordon Ramsay) 餐厅外的人行道上。
They made a comic book called Your Mommy Kills Animals and then handed it out to moms who were wearing fur coats at performances of the Nutcracker.
他们制作了一本名为《你的妈妈杀死动物》的漫画书，然后将其分发给穿着毛皮大衣观看胡桃夹子表演的妈妈们。
They campaigned to change the word fish to sea kittens so that people would associate seafood with their adorable kitty cats and stop eating them-- the fish, I mean.
他们发起运动，将“鱼”一词改为“海猫”，以便人们将海鲜与他们可爱的小猫联系起来，并停止吃它们——我是说鱼。
But Jeff Kerr-- he's the general counsel to PETA-- he says this monkey selfie case is not one of those stunts.
但杰夫·科尔（Jeff Kerr）——他是善待动物组织（PETA）的总法律顾问——他说，猴子自拍案并不是这些噱头之一。
We first saw the monkey selfie in approximately 2014 when the dispute between Mr. Slater and Wikimedia became international news.
我们第一次看到猴子自拍照大约是在 2014 年，当时斯莱特先生和维基媒体之间的争端成为国际新闻。
Our view was immediately that Naruto, who created the photograph, should own the copyright to it.
我们立即认为创作这张照片的鸣人应该拥有它的版权。
Jeff saw the dispute as this photographer wants to sue Wikimedia, and Wikimedia is claiming the photo is in the public domain.
杰夫看到了这场争议，因为这位摄影师想要起诉维基媒体，而维基媒体声称这张照片属于公共领域。
But who's standing up for the monkey?
但谁会为猴子辩护呢？
That's what the law is.
法律就是这样。
And our argument, very simply, is that that should apply equally to him, even though he simply happens not to have been born human.
我们的论点非常简单，那就是这应该同样适用于他，即使他只是碰巧不是生来就是人类。
But certainly the monkey didn't think like, now this is great.
但猴子肯定不这么认为，现在这太棒了。
I've got a camera in my hands.
我手里有一台相机。
I'm going to snap a couple frames and update my Bumble profile with whatever I get.
我将拍摄几张照片并用我得到的任何内容更新我的 Bumble 个人资料。
The monkey's not thinking of it as, I'm taking a photograph here.
猴子没想到，我在这儿拍照。
But that's not required under the copyright law.
但这不是版权法所要求的。
All that's required is that-- the copyright law simply provides that the author, the creator of the image, is entitled to own it.
所需要的只是——版权法只是规定作者，即图像的创作者，有权拥有它。
It doesn't say that the author has to know that he or she is making a photograph.
它并没有说作者必须知道他或她正在拍摄照片。
If somebody gives you their camera and asks you to take a photograph, and you arrange them and you take the photograph, under those circumstances, you technically would own the copyright.
如果有人给你相机并要求你拍照，你安排他们并拍摄照片，在这种情况下，从技术上讲，你将拥有版权。
There are like 20 French tourists that I need to sue.
我需要起诉大约 20 名法国游客。
PETA is an American organization.
PETA 是一个美国组织。
And the case was to be heard in federal court in San Francisco.
此案将在旧金山联邦法院审理。
David talked to his lawyers in England.
大卫与他在英国的律师进行了交谈。
And they told him he needed to hire an American attorney and fight this.
他们告诉他，他需要聘请一名美国律师来解决这个问题。
I was advised by talking to these attorneys that I really did need to follow this through, because there would be a chance, an outside chance albeit, of it just going the monkey's way if I didn't challenge it.
通过与这些律师交谈，我被告知我确实需要坚持到底，因为如果我不挑战的话，就有可能（尽管是外部的机会）事情会走上猴子的道路。
The monkey would win?
猴子会赢吗？
David Slater Yeah.
大卫·斯莱特 是的。
Well, it was in the court in California.
嗯，这是在加利福尼亚州的法庭上。
And everybody has the opinion that anything can happen there.
每个人都认为那里任何事情都有可能发生。
I don't know how true that is.
我不知道这有多真实。
But I was being told I can't take that risk.
但有人告诉我我不能冒这个风险。
But of course--
但当然——
Have you been to California?
你去过加州吗？
David Slater Well, no.
大卫·斯莱特 好吧，不。
It's kind of true.
这是真的。
David hired Andrew Dhuey to represent him.
大卫聘请安德鲁·杜伊（Andrew Dhuey）代表他。
Do you remember when you first heard about the case?
您还记得第一次听说这个案子是什么时候吗？
Was it when-- did David call you?
大卫是什么时候给你打电话的？
Is that how you first heard about it?
您最初是这样听说的吗？
No, I read about it.
不，我读到过。
And I don't remember where I read about it.
我不记得在哪里读到过这件事。
But I got pretty excited when I saw that it was filed in San Francisco federal court because I'm right across the bay in Berkeley.
但当我看到它被提交给旧金山联邦法院时，我感到非常兴奋，因为我就在海湾对面的伯克利。
So I thought, wow, I would be perfect for this case.
所以我想，哇，我非常适合这个案子。
Andrew is an intellectual property lawyer.
安德鲁是一名知识产权律师。
Works for himself.
为自己工作。
And when he read about the case, he reached out to David to ask if he could take it.
当他读到这个案子时，他联系大卫，询问他是否可以接受。
Why did you think you were perfect for the case?
为什么您认为自己非常适合此案？
Well, I think the case kind of lent itself to making monkey puns and things like that.
嗯，我认为这个案子有点适合制作猴子双关语之类的东西。
And I just thought that would be-- I kind of like to do that.
我只是觉得——我有点喜欢这样做。
I like to joke around.
我喜欢开玩笑。
I don't know if you've seen my LinkedIn profile.
我不知道你是否看过我的 LinkedIn 个人资料。
I'm in a Chippendales costume.
我穿着齐本德尔的服装。
For his LinkedIn picture, Andrew chose a shot of himself wearing eyeglasses, a bow tie, and nothing else.
对于他的 LinkedIn 照片，安德鲁选择了一张自己戴着眼镜、打着领结的照片，没有其他任何东西。
All these years-- I've been practicing for like 25 years, and I've never been able to joke around in anything I filed in court.
这些年来——我已经练习了大约 25 年，我从来没有在我向法庭提交的任何内容中开玩笑。
So I was like, hey, this would actually be a case where I could do that.
所以我想，嘿，这实际上是我可以做到的情况。
That said, he's a real intellectual property lawyer.
也就是说，他是一位真正的知识产权律师。
He's defended the toy company Wham-O, won an important case against Panasonic.
他为玩具公司 Wham-O 辩护，赢得了针对松下的重要诉讼。
And for Andrew, the case was a one banana problem.
对于安德鲁来说，这个案子只是一根香蕉的问题。
He answered Naruto's complaint with a motion to dismiss the case.
他以驳回案件的动议来回应鸣人的投诉。
Monkeys, he said, do not have standing to sue in federal court.
他说，猴子没有资格在联邦法院提起诉讼。
His argument is based on a precedent set in 2004 in a case called Cetacean Community v George W.
他的论点基于 2004 年鲸类社区诉乔治·W·布什案中的先例。
Bush, in which all the world's whales, porpoises, and dolphins sued the president.
布什，世界上所有的鲸鱼、鼠海豚和海豚都起诉了总统。
All the world's whales, porpoises, and dolphins argued that the military's use of underwater sonar was hurting them, changing their natural behaviors, like eating and mating.
世界上所有的鲸鱼、鼠海豚和海豚都认为，军方使用水下声纳伤害了它们，改变了它们的自然行为，比如进食和交配。
Basically, sonar is just an incredibly loud sound wave.
基本上，声纳只是一种非常响亮的声波。
So cetaceans, that's a scientific word for a category of marine mammal-- cetaceans flee when they hear sonar, sometimes even beating themselves to get away.
鲸类，这是一个科学术语，指的是一类海洋哺乳动物——鲸类在听到声纳时就会逃跑，有时甚至会敲打自己来逃脱。
In that case, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals decided that unless Congress explicitly states otherwise, animals do not have standing to sue in federal court.
在该案中，第九巡回上诉法院裁定，除非国会另有明确规定，否则动物没有资格在联邦法院提起诉讼。
So that's the case Andrew pointed to in his defense.
这就是安德鲁在辩护中指出的情况。
But PETA hired an outside attorney to represent the monkey Naruto in court, a guy named David Schwarz.
但善待动物组织聘请了一位外部律师在法庭上代表猴子鸣人出庭，律师名叫大卫·施瓦茨 (David Schwarz)。
This guy, Schwarz, he comes from a fancy law firm in Los Angeles known for intellectual property law.
这个家伙，施瓦茨，来自洛杉矶一家以知识产权法闻名的高级律师事务所。
Most of his case was an intellectual property argument that Naruto was the legal owner of the copyright because he was the one who made the photo.
他的案件大部分是关于知识产权的争论，即鸣人是版权的合法所有者，因为他是制作这张照片的人。
But PETA also saw this case as an opportunity to nudge the law and set a precedent.
但善待动物组织也将此案视为推动法律并开创先例的机会。
They disagreed with the ruling in the cetacean case.
他们不同意鲸类案件的裁决。
They believe animals should have recourse in court.
他们认为动物应该在法庭上诉诸法律。
Calling civil matter 15-4324, Naruto v David John Slater, et al.
民事案件 15-4324，Naruto 诉 David John Slater 等人。
Counsel, please come forward and state your appearance.
律师，请站出来说明你的外表。
This is a recording from the hearing in the federal district court in San Francisco.
这是旧金山联邦地区法院听证会的录音。
The judge asked Schwarz if he has an example of an animal ever being granted a copyright.
法官询问施瓦茨是否有动物被授予版权的例子。
In the vast history of common law prior to the Copyright Act, was there-- do you have an example of where an animal was granted a copyright?
在《版权法》之前的普通法的漫长历史中，是否有动物被授予版权的例子？
I do not have an example where an animal was granted a copyright.
我没有动物被授予版权的例子。
We could make the counterargument as to how other humans were denied protection under that law due to the color of their skin.
我们可以反驳其他人如何因其肤色而被剥夺该法律的保护。
One could see the contradiction in a statutory interpretation where we see that problem in the antebellum days.
人们可以在法律解释中看到矛盾，我们在战前就看到了这个问题。
But when you look at the cornerstones of--
但当你看看它的基石——
Just to pause on this for a moment.
只是暂停一下。
Yes, Schwarz is comparing a monkey's lack of copyright to chattel slavery, which is offensive and seems weirdly blind to the racist history of comparing black people and monkeys.
是的，施瓦茨正在将猴子缺乏版权与动产奴隶制进行比较，这是一种冒犯，而且似乎对黑人和猴子进行比较的种族主义历史视而不见。
Even Schwarz seems uncomfortable with it.
就连施瓦茨也似乎对此感到不舒服。
He's saying that denying a monkey the right to own property because of its species is the same as denying humans the right to own property because of the color of their skin.
他说，因为猴子的物种而剥夺其拥有财产的权利，就像因为肤色而剥夺人类拥有财产的权利一样。
Pardon me?
对不起？
Judge That's quite a stretch.
法官 这实在是太牵强了。
But go ahead.
但继续吧。
And I certainly wouldn't make it the centerpiece of any argument here today.
我当然不会将其作为今天这里任何争论的核心。
But it is fair to say that before the adoption of the 14th Amendment, the concepts of property ownership in the area of patents foreclosed the ability of a slave to claim ownership to a patent.
但公平地说，在第十四修正案通过之前，专利领域的财产所有权概念排除了奴隶主张专利所有权的能力。
What's going on here is that PETA sees the monkey selfie case in the context of a larger end game.
这里发生的事情是，善待动物组织将猴子自拍案视为更大的结局。
If they can get a court to agree that denying a monkey the right to own property is the same as denying a human the right to own property, that opens the door for the legal system to completely reconsider the legal status of animals.
如果他们能让法院同意剥夺猴子拥有财产的权利与剥夺人类拥有财产的权利相同，这就为法律体系彻底重新考虑动物的法律地位打开了大门。
An animal would be declared an owner of property instead of just being property.
动物将被宣布为财产所有者，而不仅仅是财产。
This isn't the first time PETA has tried an argument like this in the courts.
这并不是善待动物组织第一次在法庭上审理类似的争论。
In 2011, they sued SeaWorld on behalf of five orcas at SeaWorld Orlando and SeaWorld San Diego.
2011年，他们代表奥兰多海洋世界和圣地亚哥海洋世界的五只逆戟鲸起诉海洋世界。
Orcas are huge, 20 to 30 feet long.
虎鲸体型巨大，有 20 至 30 英尺长。
And they weigh about six tons.
它们重约六吨。
They typically travel around 75 miles in a day.
他们通常一天行驶约 75 英里。
PETA said that keeping these orcas at SeaWorld in small concrete tanks against their will to perform for human entertainment, that was slavery.
善待动物组织表示，违背其意愿将这些逆戟鲸关在海洋世界的小型混凝土水箱中供人类娱乐，这就是奴隶制。
PETA lost that case.
PETA 输掉了这场官司。
But SeaWorld has agreed to end its captive orca program after the last of their 27 orcas dies.
但海洋世界已同意在 27 只虎鲸中最后一只死亡后结束其圈养虎鲸计划。
To understand why PETA is pursuing cases like these, you have to consider two very different pictures about how the world works.
要理解善待动物组织为何追查此类案件，您必须考虑关于世界如何运作的两种截然不同的情况。
In one of them, humans are at the top of the food chain-- either because God wanted it that way, or because we figured out how to use our opposable thumbs so well that we could hunt and gather, and till the soil, and build cities, and create copyright laws.
在其中之一中，人类处于食物链的顶端——要么是因为上帝希望如此，要么是因为我们找到了如何很好地使用我们的对生拇指，以便我们可以狩猎和采集，耕种土壤，建造城市，并制定版权法。
We make the rules for everything else in this world.
我们为这个世界上的一切制定规则。
And the other picture-- and this is the one PETA has hanging on their wall-- humans are not at the top.
另一张照片——这是善待动物组织挂在墙上的那张照片——人类并未到达顶峰。
Humans are just another mammal walking around on earth.
人类只是地球上行走的另一种哺乳动物。
And if we're going to give ourselves certain rights as humans, we should extend those rights to our fellow animals.
如果我们要赋予自己作为人类的某些权利，我们应该将这些权利扩展到我们的动物同胞。
You guys are saying humans are not superior to other animals.
你们说人类并不比其他动物优越。
We're not.
我们不是。
We are just another member of the animal kingdom.
我们只是动物王国的另一个成员。
And it doesn't-- it's just prejudice and hubris that prevents us many times from seeing that.
但事实并非如此——只是偏见和傲慢让我们多次看不到这一点。
This is Jeff Kerr again, the general counsel to PETA.
我又是杰夫·科尔 (Jeff Kerr)，善待动物组织 (PETA) 的总法律顾问。
That property status is something that we think is just an abomination.
我们认为这种财产状况是令人厌恶的。
Like Naruto, these animals are feeling, sentient beings.
和火影忍者一样，这些动物也是有感情的、有感知的生物。
They should be entitled to fundamental legal rights beyond simply food, water, veterinary care, and shelter.
他们应该享有除食物、水、兽医护理和住所之外的基本法律权利。
This idea that animals should have recognized, fundamental legal rights is not unprecedented.
这种认为动物应该享有基本合法权利的想法并非史无前例。
Three years ago in Argentina, a judge granted a habeas corpus petition filed on behalf of an orangutan at a zoo in Buenos Aires.
三年前，在阿根廷，一名法官批准了代表布宜诺斯艾利斯动物园的一只猩猩提交的人身保护令申请。
She was being held in a tiny, crappy cage.
她被关在一个又小又破的笼子里。
The judge decided the orangutan had basic rights as a non-human person, including the right to freedom.
法官裁定猩猩拥有作为非人类的基本权利，包括自由权。
And in New York state, an attorney is fighting to get the courts to recognize that two captive chimps, Tommy and Kiko, are non-human persons deserving of legal rights, just like corporations get.
在纽约州，一名律师正在努力让法院承认两只圈养黑猩猩汤米和基科是非人类，应该享有合法权利，就像公司一样。
The thing is-- David Slater, the photographer who's getting sued by the monkey, he agrees with PETA on this point.
问题是——被猴子起诉的摄影师大卫·斯莱特（David Slater）在这一点上同意善待动物组织的观点。
In fact, he used to defend PETA to his friends when they grumbled about the stunts.
事实上，当他的朋友抱怨善待动物组织的特技时，他常常向他们辩护。
David even worked with them once on a campaign to protect wild hogs near his home in England.
大卫甚至曾与他们合作开展一项保护他在英格兰家附近的野猪的活动。
That's one of the greatest shames on them is that they've attacked somebody who is trying to achieve the same goal as they are.
他们最大的耻辱之一就是他们攻击了那些试图与他们实现相同目标的人。
Saving animals from suffering is a very noble cause.
拯救动物免遭苦难是一项非常崇高的事业。
But I think sometimes they get carried away with their power.
但我认为有时他们会被自己的权力冲昏头脑。
Did the fact that this group that's sort of on your side was the one kind of attacking you or opposing you, did that make you stop ever and think, well, now, wait a minute?
事实上，这个站在你一边的团体正在攻击你或反对你，这是否让你停下来思考，好吧，现在，等一下？
Do they have a point?
他们有道理吗？
No. I've had to think very carefully about what my philosophy is.
不，我必须非常仔细地思考我的哲学是什么。
Because the book, my Wildlife Personalities book, that's part of the court case, I argue for animals having more fundamental rights, like dignity, and access to their ancestral forests, and access to food.
因为这本书，我的《野生动物人物》一书，是法庭案件的一部分，所以我主张动物拥有更基本的权利，比如尊严、进入祖先森林的权利以及获得食物的权利。
So I am an animal rights advocate.
所以我是一名动物权利倡导者。
Naruto and PETA lost that first round in court.
火影忍者和善待动物组织在法庭上输掉了第一轮。
Andrew Dhuey called David to tell him the news.
安德鲁·杜伊打电话给大卫，告诉他这个消息。
We just took it very casually.
我们只是非常随意地对待它。
We just said, yeah, of course.
我们只是说，是的，当然。
Of course that's going to get thrown out.
当然，这会被扔掉。
Andrew Dhuey said this all along to me.
安德鲁·杜伊一直对我这么说。
There's no way that this is going to go anywhere.
这不可能有任何进展。
Good morning, Your Honors.
早上好，法官大人。
And may it please the court, David Schwarz on behalf of the appellant.
愿法庭满意，大卫·施瓦茨（David Schwarz）代表上诉人。
The case went before three judges on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.
该案由第九巡回上诉法院的三名法官审理。
That's the court that ruled against Trump's travel ban twice this year.
这是今年两次驳回特朗普旅行禁令的法院。
These judges are not messing around.
这些法官不是在胡闹。
Schwarz made it 30 seconds into his oral argument before one of the judges interrupted him.
施瓦茨的口头辩论进行了 30 秒，随后一位法官打断了他。
Mr. Schwarz, before we get there, there's a preliminary question which I'd like you to address.
施瓦茨先生，在我们到达那里之前，我希望您解决一个初步问题。
At this stage, the attorneys and the judges are going to debate case law.
在此阶段，律师和法官将就判例法进行辩论。
And the judges have a lot of questions for Schwarz-- the first being, how are you qualified to be Naruto's next friend?
评委们向施瓦茨提出了很多问题——第一个就是，你有什么资格成为鸣人的下一个朋友？
You don't know the monkey.
你不了解猴子。
And then a few minutes later, Judge Randy Smith interrupts Schwarz to grill him about injury.
几分钟后，兰迪·史密斯法官打断施瓦茨，盘问他的伤势。
That's the legal term for harm or damage.
这是伤害或损害的法律术语。
Well, what's your injury?
嗯，你的伤怎么样了？
There's no way to acquire or hold some money which the copyright would give.
没有办法获得或持有版权所给予的一些金钱。
There's no losses to reputation.
名誉上没有任何损失。
There's no even allegation that the copyright could have benefited somehow Naruto.
甚至没有任何指控表明版权可以以某种方式使火影忍者受益。
What financial benefits apply to him?
他可以享受哪些经济利益？
There's nothing.
什么都没有。
But, Your Honor, the redressability issue doesn't necessarily turn on the compensation.
但是，法官大人，可补救性问题并不一定会涉及到赔偿问题。
It could be--
可能是——
Well, I want to know what then is the injury.
嗯，我想知道那是什么伤。
There's no case that says copyright infringement itself is injury.
没有任何案例表明侵犯版权本身就是伤害。
So what injury do we have?
那么我们有什么伤害呢？
Whatever the legal merits of this case are, there's just something really enjoyable about hearing lawyers throw around terms like redressability and compensation and injury when they're talking about a monkey.
无论此案的法律依据如何，听到律师在谈论猴子时抛出诸如可补偿性、赔偿和伤害等条款，确实是一件非常令人愉快的事情。
I mean, if you give me a case that says copyright infringement itself is injury, I'll believe you.
我的意思是，如果你给我一个案例，说侵犯版权本身就是伤害，我会相信你。
But I don't think you've given me one.
但我不认为你给了我一个。
What's your injury?
你的伤是什么？
The judges and Schwarz volley over case law and legal precedent and the definition of author for 20 minutes before handing the floor to David's lawyer, Andrew Dhuey.
法官和施瓦茨就判例法、法律先例以及作者的定义进行了 20 分钟的讨论，然后将发言权交给了大卫的律师安德鲁·杜伊 (Andrew Dhuey)。
And after two years of research and legal filings and oral arguments, Dhuey finally gets his wish to make a monkey joke in court.
经过两年的研究、法律备案和口头辩论，杜伊终于如愿以偿，在法庭上开了一个猴子玩笑。
Monkey see, monkey sue will not do in federal court.
猴子明白了，猴子在联邦法院起诉是不行的。
After that, his oral arguments can pretty much be summed up as, you should throw this case out.
之后，他的口头辩论几乎可以总结为：你应该驳回这个案子。
And can you please make PETA pay my legal fees?
你能让 PETA 支付我的律师费吗？
Once Dhuey is done, Angela Dunning gets up.
杜伊说完后，安吉拉·邓宁站了起来。
She's the codefendant's attorney.
她是同案被告的律师。
PETA also sued the self-publishing book company that David had used.
PETA 还起诉了大卫使用过的自助出版图书公司。
So Angela Dunning gets up to deliver her defense, which is also pretty straightforward.
于是安吉拉·邓宁站起来进行辩护，这也非常简单。
Naruto can't benefit financially from his work.
鸣人无法从他的工作中获得经济利益。
He's a monkey.
他是一只猴子。
David Slater wasn't in court in San Francisco that day.
大卫·斯莱特当天不在旧金山法庭。
He didn't want to spend the money to travel all the way to California from Wales.
他不想花这笔钱从威尔士千里迢迢来到加利福尼亚。
But he watched the whole hearing online.
但他在网上观看了整个听证会。
When I watched it-- and you see three judges there.
当我观看时，你会看到三位法官在那里。
And then one attorney comes up, and then my attorney comes up, Andrew and then Angela, and they started talking about monkeys.
然后一位律师出现了，然后是我的律师，安德鲁，然后是安吉拉，他们开始谈论猴子。
It made it real all of a sudden.
它突然变得真实了。
That, yes, he was being sued by a monkey.
是的，他被一只猴子起诉了。
Naruto didn't make it to the hearing either.
鸣人也没有出席听证会。
He stayed in the rainforest in Indonesia.
他住在印度尼西亚的雨林里。
And to my knowledge, nobody asked him what he thought of all this.
据我所知，没有人问他对这一切有何看法。
After two years, the humans managed to figure things out on their own.
两年后，人类设法自己解决了问题。
They told the appellate court they didn't want it to rule in the case after all.
他们告诉上诉法院，他们毕竟不希望上诉法院对此案做出裁决。
And in September, David and PETA announced they'd reached a settlement.
九月，大卫和善待动物组织宣布他们已达成和解。
The details of the settlement are confidential.
和解的细节是保密的。
So I can't tell you much about it.
所以我不能告诉你太多。
But here's what I do know.
但这就是我所知道的。
David Slater still has the monkey selfie copyright registered in his name in two countries.
大卫·斯莱特仍然拥有在两个国家以他的名义注册的猴子自拍版权。
And he agreed to donate 25% of the proceeds of the photos to protect the crested macaques.
并且他同意捐出照片收益的25%来保护凤头猕猴。
About Wikipedia, they've still got the monkey selfie up there for anyone to download.
关于维基百科，他们仍然有猴子自拍照供任何人下载。
They still claim it's in the public domain.
他们仍然声称它属于公共领域。
David will have to sue them to get it taken down, which he says he plans to do.
大卫将不得不起诉他们以将其撤下，他说他计划这样做。
There's just one other thing that should be mentioned about Naruto.
关于《火影忍者》，还有一件事值得一提。
There were a bunch of monkeys around when the selfies were being taken that day.
那天自拍的时候周围有一群猴子。
And PETA consulted with the primatologist who works with those crested black macaques.
PETA 咨询了研究黑冠猕猴的灵长类动物学家。
She's the one who identified Naruto as the monkey in the famous selfie.
她是那个认出鸣人就是那张著名自拍照中的猴子的人。
But David says that's not right.
但大卫说这是不对的。
Naruto is a male.
鸣人是男性。
I distinctly remember it being a female.
我清楚地记得是个女的。
I distinctly remember that pink rump which the female macaques have.
我清楚地记得雌性猕猴的粉红色臀部。
Basically what you're saying is is that Naruto is making a fraudulent claim himself.
基本上你所说的是鸣人自己在进行欺诈性声明。
He's taking credit for an artistic work that was actually made by a female monkey.
他因一件实际上是由母猴子创作的艺术作品而获得荣誉。
Yeah.
是的。
And I think the feminists amongst us should start to protest.
我认为我们当中的女权主义者应该开始抗议。
I'm sure she's not the first lady monkey to have this kind of experience.
我确信她不是第一个有这种经历的猴子女士。
It's in the nature of both humans and monkeys to horse around in front of cameras.
在镜头前胡闹是人类和猴子的天性。
But it's a uniquely human characteristic to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars, years of our lives, to go to court over it.
但花费数十万美元、数年的时间，去告上法庭是人类独有的特征。
Dana Chivvis is one of the producers of our show.
达纳·奇夫维斯 (Dana Chivvis) 是我们节目的制片人之一。
Coming up-- our first act was about a monkey horsing around.
接下来——我们的第一幕是关于一只猴子嬉戏的故事。
Next up, we have a horse monkeying around.
接下来，我们有一匹马在胡闹。
That's in a minute.
就在一分钟之内。
From Chicago Public Radio.
来自芝加哥公共广播电台。
When our program continues.
当我们的计划继续进行时。
This American Life.
这美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme in today's show, So a Monkey and a Horse Walk Into a Bar.
我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，在今天的节目《猴子和马走进酒吧》中为您带来不同类型的故事。
Today we have stories of people trying to completely erase the line between animal and human.
今天，我们看到了人们试图完全消除动物和人类之间界限的故事。
We've arrived at act two of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。
Act two, If Wishes Were Horses.
第二幕，如果愿望是马。
So there was a thing that we were interested in for this week's show that's at the heart of this new short piece of fiction by Amy Bonnaffons.
因此，我们对本周节目感兴趣的一件事是艾米·博纳芬 (Amy Bonnaffons) 创作的这部新短篇小说的核心内容。
Here it is.
这里是。
This is an excerpt from a longer story read by two actors, Grace Gummer and Geraldine Hughes.
这是两位演员格蕾丝·古默和杰拉尔丁·休斯朗读的较长故事的节选。
Quick warning that this story acknowledges the existence of sex.
快速警告这个故事承认性的存在。
Every morning we meet in the kitchen and unsheathe our needles.
每天早上我们都会在厨房见面并拔出针头。
My roommate Serena delicately peels down her underwear.
我的室友瑟琳娜小心翼翼地脱下她的内衣。
I count to three, hold her hip to steady her trembling frame, then jab, thrusting the handle until the fluid disappears.
我数到三，扶住她的臀部，稳定她颤抖的身躯，然后猛刺，推动手柄，直到液体消失。
Then it's my turn.
然后轮到我了。
We're in this together, at least for now.
我们在一起，至少现在是这样。
The two needles look identical, although their contents are different.
两根针看起来一模一样，但内容却不同。
We have different goals.
我们有不同的目标。
Serena wants to become a mother.
瑟琳娜想成为一名母亲。
I want to become a horse.
我想变成一匹马。
What does it mean to be a horse?
成为一匹马意味着什么？
First, it means not being a person-- no credit cards, no fad diets, no existential questions, no more boring meetings or family dinners, no political allegiances or disappointments, no responsibility to anyone but yourself.
首先，它意味着不再是一个人——没有信用卡，没有流行的饮食，没有存在主义的问题，没有更多无聊的会议或家庭聚餐，没有政治忠诚或失望，除了你自己之外对任何人都没有责任。
How do I become one?
我怎样才能成为其中一员？
It's quite simple.
这很简单。
State your desire in writing, and we'll take it from there.
以书面形式表达您的愿望，我们将从那里开始。
Is it expensive?
是不是很贵？
No. Why not?
不，为什么不呢？
Because there's not yet sufficient demand for the procedure.
因为对该程序的需求还不够。
All the more reason for you to try before it becomes pricey and exclusive.
更有理由让您在它变得昂贵和独特之前尝试一下。
Right now, it costs less than a Pilates vacation in Tulum.
目前，它的费用比在图卢姆进行普拉提度假还要便宜。
I wanted something human existence couldn't offer.
我想要一些人类无法提供的东西。
As I neared my 40th birthday, I felt increasingly constricted by daily postures-- sitting in a chair at my desk, cocking my head with feigned interest at a party, stirring spaghetti sauce over the stove.
当我临近 40 岁生日时，我感到越来越受到日常姿势的束缚——坐在办公桌前的椅子上，歪着头假装对聚会感兴趣，在炉子上搅拌意大利面酱。
I started taking expensive vacations to engage in extreme physical challenges-- mountain climbing, skydiving, snowboarding.
我开始利用昂贵的假期来参加极限体能挑战——爬山、跳伞、滑雪。
These pursuits all induced a feeling of mastery and freedom, but only after learning a complex set of rules regarding harnesses, buckles, and straps.
这些追求都会带来一种掌控感和自由感，但前提是要学习一套有关安全带、带扣和带子的复杂规则。
I wanted to do away with constraints entirely.
我想完全消除限制。
Then I learned about becoming a horse.
然后我学会了成为一匹马。
How does the process work?
这个过程是如何进行的？
The process now known as equinification was discovered by Janus Belacek, a Hungarian doctor, transforming human DNA into horse DNA.
现在被称为“马化”的过程是由匈牙利医生 Janus Belacek 发现的，它将人类 DNA 转化为马 DNA。
The process requires only a simple series of shots.
该过程只需要一系列简单的拍摄。
Why does it only work on women?
为什么它只对女性有效？
We're not sure, but we think it's because they want it to.
我们不确定，但我们认为这是因为他们想要这样做。
Where do these horse women live?
这些属马的女人住在哪里？
Atalanta Ranch, which occupies an entire island off the coast of Florida, and has been built expressly for this purpose.
亚特兰大牧场占据了佛罗里达州海岸附近的整个岛屿，是专门为此目的而建造的。
What do the horses on the ranch look like?
牧场里的马长啥样？
They look like horses, tall, graceful animals designed for running and grazing, muscles rippling beneath a shiny coat of fur, hair flying in the wind.
它们看起来像马，高大、优雅的动物，专为奔跑和放牧而设计，肌肉在闪亮的皮毛下荡漾，头发在风中飘扬。
They look like they're doing nothing other than actively being themselves.
他们看起来除了积极做自己之外什么也没做。
Of course, I went to visit.
我当然是去参观了。
The ranch was just as they described.
牧场正如他们所描述的那样。
The horses looked healthy and vibrant.
马匹看上去健康又充满活力。
Their hooves pounded across the plains making a sound like rainfall.
他们的蹄子踏过平原，发出像下雨一样的声音。
"Do you think this is some kind of modern version of the lesbian separatist utopia?" I mused that night to Kathy, one of the other women on the tour, over gin and tonics at the island's guesthouse.
“你认为这是某种现代版的女同性恋分离主义乌托邦吗？”那天晚上，我在岛上的宾馆喝着杜松子酒和滋补品，对凯西（这次旅行中的其他女性之一）沉思起来。
"Except not just for lesbians?"
“除了女同性恋之外？”
She laughed.
她笑了。
"Old fantasies die hard." She gave me a meaningful look.
“旧的幻想很难消逝。”她意味深长地看了我一眼。
"Can I ask something?
“我可以问一件事吗？
What's your reason?" "Boredom," I said without hesitation.
你的理由是什么？” “无聊。”我毫不犹豫地说。
She nodded.
她点点头。
"What about you?" I said.
“你呢？”我说。
"What are you escaping?"
“你在逃避什么？”
She replied with a long story about her body, which had endured nearly every tried and true form of female trauma-- abuse, rape, abortion, endometriosis, hysterectomy.
她回答了一个关于她身体的长篇故事，她的身体经历了几乎所有尝试过的真实形式的女性创伤——虐待、强奸、堕胎、子宫内膜异位症、子宫切除术。
"I guess," she said, "I want a different body with a clean slate." They kept refilling our drinks without our asking.
“我想，”她说，“我想要一个全新的身体。”他们在没有我们要求的情况下不断地给我们补充饮料。
And soon we were very drunk.
很快我们就喝醉了。
Somehow, we found ourselves in my room stripping off our clothes.
不知何故，我们发现自己在我的房间里脱掉衣服。
This sex was like a competition.
这种性爱就像一场比赛。
Who could manage to escape her body using the other's body first?
谁能先利用对方的身体逃离自己的身体？
Later, embarrassed, we turned away from each other.
后来，我们都不好意思了，转身离开了对方。
Just then I sensed movement behind the window.
就在这时，我感觉到窗后有动静。
I got up stark naked and pulled aside the curtain.
我赤身裸体地起身，拉开窗帘。
One of the horses was standing right outside, staring in with her dark liquid eyes.
其中一匹马就站在外面，用黑色液体般的眼睛凝视着里面。
I felt the bed creak behind me then heard Kathy gasp.
我感觉到身后的床吱吱作响，然后听到凯西喘息着。
She saw it too.
她也看到了。
The horse gave a deep, slow nod.
马缓慢地点了点头。
Then she turned and disappeared into the night.
然后她转身消失在夜色中。
When I become a horse, will I still have human consciousness?
当我变成一匹马时，我还会有人类意识吗？
You will simultaneously be your human self and not be your human self when you become a horse.
当你变成一匹马时，你将同时成为你的人类自我，同时也不再是你的人类自我。
You will think the same thoughts, but in a horsey manner.
你也会有同样的想法，但方式很马虎。
Your personality will have the same attributes but horsily expressed.
你的个性将具有相同的属性，但表达方式却很可怕。
Your thoughts will take on a horsey cadence.
你的思绪会变得急促起来。
Your feelings will pulse and throb with thick, horsey blood.
你的感情会随着浓浓的马血而脉动和悸动。
We cannot guarantee that you will continue to inhabit your human identity in any recognizable way.
我们不能保证您将继续以任何可识别的方式保留您的人类身份。
Serena went to the doctor and found out that her second attempt at IVF had failed.
瑟琳娜去看医生，发现她的第二次试管受精失败了。
"We don't say failed," the doctor said kindly.
“我们不说失败，”医生和蔼地说。
"We say unsuccessful." "It's almost as bad," said Serena.
“我们说不成功。” “情况几乎同样糟糕，”瑟琳娜说。
Serena and I became friends in a PhD program.
瑟琳娜和我在攻读博士学位时成为了朋友。
I dropped out after our third year when I realized that the most pleasurable part of my life was my summer waitressing job.
第三年后，当我意识到我生命中最愉快的部分是我的暑期服务员工作时，我就退学了。
But it got old.
但它变老了。
I tried a few other restaurant jobs then finally settled for freelance copyediting, for which my half degree apparently qualified me.
我尝试过其他几份餐厅工作，最后选择了自由撰稿编辑，我的半学位显然有资格胜任这份工作。
Serena graduated with honors and won an award for her thesis on 18th century women's novels.
瑟琳娜以优异的成绩毕业，并因其关于 18 世纪女性小说的论文获奖。
But after graduation, despite her accolades, she couldn't find a job.
但毕业后，尽管她获得了荣誉，但她找不到工作。
I encouraged her but privately ascribed her failure to her meekness with strangers.
我鼓励她，但私下里把她的失败归咎于她对陌生人的温顺。
In the end, she got a job teaching English at an all-girls high school.
最终，她在一所女子高中找到了一份教英语的工作。
To her surprise, the girls recognized her quiet power and obeyed her, surrounded her with a mute halo of reverence.
令她惊讶的是，女孩们认识到了她安静的力量并服从了她，并用无声的崇敬光环包围了她。
She became one of the school's most beloved teachers.
她成为学校最受爱戴的老师之一。
Yet no matter how deeply the work absorbed her, she always felt like a failure.
然而，无论她对这份工作有多着迷，她总是感觉自己是个失败者。
Isn't this really a glorified form of suicide?
这难道不是一种光荣的自杀方式吗？
We prefer to think of it in the opposite way, as a kind of birth.
我们更愿意以相反的方式来思考它，将其视为一种诞生。
But your friends and relatives may not see it this way.
但你的朋友和亲戚可能不这么看。
You may have to prepare them for your transformation as you might for your death.
你可能必须让他们为你的转变做好准备，就像你为你的死亡做好准备一样。
Will I need to make out a will then?
那我需要立遗嘱吗？
Yes.
是的。
You may not bring anything with you to Atalanta Ranch beside your body.
除了身体之外，您不得携带任何物品前往亚特兰大牧场。
It started happening right after my 40th birthday in June.
它开始发生在我 6 月 40 岁生日之后。
I woke up in the middle of the night with a strange feeling in my feet-- not pain exactly, but pressure so intense it absorbed my whole attention.
我半夜醒来，脚上有一种奇怪的感觉——确切地说不是疼痛，而是压力如此强烈，以至于吸引了我的全部注意力。
I cried out in surprise, and Serena rushed into my room.
我惊讶地叫了起来，瑟琳娜冲进了我的房间。
And then we pulled back the covers to see that my feet had been replaced by perfect horse hooves, black and stone-like, cloven in the middle.
然后我们拉开被子，看到我的脚已经被完美的马蹄所取代，黑色，像石头一样，中间裂开。
As predicted by the pamphlets, I felt disgust then wonder.
正如小册子上所预言的那样，我先感到厌恶，然后感到惊讶。
The pamphlet said--
小册子上写着——
The transformation of your own body will be a spectacle arousing both revulsion and awe.
你自己身体的转变将是一个既令人厌恶又令人敬畏的奇观。
I got up and tried to walk around.
我站起来，试着四处走动。
Serena and I both giggled manically.
瑟琳娜和我都疯狂地咯咯笑。
My hooves were tender, and it hurt to walk on them, like when my feet used to ache at the end of a night on high heels.
我的蹄子很软，走在上面很痛，就像我的脚在晚上穿高跟鞋时会疼痛一样。
I felt lopsided and clumsy.
我感到不平衡和笨拙。
These hooves weren't made to carry a bipedal organism.
这些蹄子并不是用来携带双足生物的。
But hearing their clop, clop, clop around the floors of the apartment, I grew excited.
但听到他们在公寓地板上发出的“叮叮”、“叮叮”、“叮叮”声，我变得兴奋起来。
We couldn't sleep the rest of the night.
我们整个晚上都无法入睡。
We stayed up rereading the informational pamphlets, speculating on how quickly the rest of me would start to turn.
我们熬夜重读信息小册子，猜测我的其他部分会多快开始转变。
As if by magic, by some prearranged signal of the gods, Serena peed on a stick the next morning and discovered she was pregnant.
第二天早上，塞琳娜在一根棍子上撒尿，发现自己怀孕了，就像变魔术一样，在众神预先安排的信号下。
Are the horses tame or wild?
马是驯养的还是野生的？
The horses at the ranch are wild.
牧场里的马都是野生的。
We provide nothing but acreage for running and grazing.
我们只提供跑步和放牧的面积。
We do nothing to break them.
我们没有采取任何措施来破坏它们。
There are no harnesses, no bridles, no whips.
没有挽具，没有缰绳，没有鞭子。
Among other purposes, the ranch exists in order to cultivate wildness.
除其他目的外，牧场的存在是为了培育野性。
What is wildness?
什么是野性？
And may wildness be cultivated?
野性可以培养吗？
Isn't that a contradiction?
这不是矛盾吗？
That is what we're trying to find out.
这就是我们想要找出的答案。
All we can say is either you personally resonate with this desire, or you don't.
我们只能说，你个人要么认同这种愿望，要么不认同。
Either you like the idea of shaking off your restraints and are willing to give up everything you know in the attempt to do so, or you're like most people, comforted by language, by clothing, by laws.
要么你喜欢摆脱束缚的想法，并愿意为此放弃你所知道的一切，要么你像大多数人一样，受到语言、服装和法律的安慰。
Walking around town with my hooves, I gained a new kind of attention.
用我的蹄子在城里走来走去，我获得了一种新的关注。
Women regarded me with disgust or envy, men with disgust or desire.
女人用厌恶或嫉妒的眼光看我，男人则用厌恶或欲望的眼光看我。
My first night out at a bar with some friends, I was the object of many stares.
我和一些朋友在酒吧度过的第一个晚上，我成为了许多人注视的对象。
But I sensed a particular heat coming from one man at a corner table.
但我感觉到角落桌子旁的一个人身上散发出一种特殊的热情。
He wore the distinct, recognizable look of a graduate student-- floppy hair, and a lanky frame, and a too-large cotton hoodie.
他有着明显的研究生模样——蓬松的头发，瘦长的身材，穿着一件太大的棉质连帽衫。
Every time I looked over at him, he turned away, red-faced.
每次我看他一眼，他都会红着脸转过头去。
Eventually, when he approached the bar to get another drink, I addressed him.
最终，当他到酒吧去再喝一杯时，我向他讲话。
"Hey," I said.
“嘿，”我说。
He blushed again, flicked his eyes down to my hooves, then back up, then blushed deeper.
他又脸红了，低头扫视我的蹄子，然后又抬起头来，然后脸红得更深了。
"Hey," he said.
“嘿，”他说。
"Am I the first you've seen?" "Yeah," he said.
“我是你第一个见到的吗？” “是的，”他说。
"Sorry, I guess I was staring." "It's OK." "Is that-- is that the only part of you that's--?" "So far, yes."
“抱歉，我猜我刚才看错了。” “没关系。” “那是——那是你唯一的一部分——吗？” “到目前为止，是的。”
He nodded, swallowed.
他点点头，咽了口口水。
I grabbed a pen from my purse, scribbled my number on a napkin.
我从钱包里拿出一支笔，在餐巾纸上写下了我的电话号码。
I wasn't particularly attracted to him, but I had been horny since my hooves had appeared.
我对他并不是特别感兴趣，但自从我的蹄子出现以来，我就一直饥渴难耐。
"My friends and I are about to head to another bar.
“我和我的朋友正要去另一家酒吧。
But if you want to meet up later, text me.
但如果你想稍后见面，请给我发短信。
I'll be free by midnight."
午夜之前我就有空了。”
Later that night, in his spartan studio apartment, he stared at me as if he'd never seen a woman before.
那天晚上晚些时候，在他简朴的单间公寓里，他盯着我，好像他以前从未见过女人一样。
I felt his gaze lingering on the spot where the slope of my ankle gave way to the ashen density of the hoof.
我感觉到他的目光停留在我脚踝的斜坡被蹄子灰白的地方所取代的地方。
But as he reached out to touch me, a violent, molten feeling welled up within me.
但当他伸手触碰我时，我内心涌起一股强烈的、融化的感觉。
I recognized it as rage.
我认出这是愤怒。
But it was too late.
但为时已晚。
It had already happened.
这已经发生了。
I had kicked him.
我踢了他。
He jerked backward, his hands to his face.
他猛地向后退去，双手捂住脸。
Blood seeped out between his fingers.
鲜血从他的手指间渗出。
He said something or tried to, but all I heard was, [GROANING].
他说了些什么或者试图说些什么，但我听到的只是，[呻吟]。
The old me would have gone and fetched him a towel, called him a taxi, accompanied him to the hospital.
以前的我会去给他拿一条毛巾，给他叫一辆出租车，陪他去医院。
But the sight of his bloody face only increased my rage, tinged it with contempt for his weakness.
但看到他血淋淋的脸只会让我更加愤怒，其中还夹杂着对他软弱的蔑视。
I fought the urge to kick him again, harder.
我强忍着再次踢他的冲动。
It was all I could do to get out of the house.
我所能做的就是走出家门。
I hurried down the stairs of his walk-up, pushed open the door, and ran through the streets of Somerville, awkward on my hooved limbs but propelled by the heat his near touch had unleashed.
我匆匆走下他的无电梯电梯，推开门，跑过萨默维尔的街道，四肢笨拙，但他的近距离接触释放出的热量推动着我。
I ran past university gates, over the bridge, through Boston at full sprint.
我全速跑过大学大门，跑过桥，穿过波士顿。
At some point, I realized my awkward gait had been replaced by something graceful and rhythmic and, well, horse-like.
在某个时刻，我意识到我笨拙的步态已经被优雅、有节奏、嗯，像马一样的步态所取代。
I had stopped noticing the strangeness of my hooves.
我不再注意到我的蹄子有什么奇怪的地方。
I was using them as they were meant to be used.
我按照它们的用途来使用它们。
I was cantering.
我正在慢跑。
By the time I approached my own neighborhood, I'd slowed to a trot, but I felt elated.
当我接近自己的邻居时，我放慢了小跑速度，但我感到很高兴。
My very nature was changing.
我的本性正在改变。
I was becoming wild.
我变得狂野起来。
The man's touch had been a bridle, and I'd kicked it away.
那个男人的触碰就像一条缰绳，我把它踢开了。
What symptoms might I experience during my transformation?
在转变过程中我可能会遇到哪些症状？
The same symptoms you would experience during any transformation-- mood swings, growing pains, strained relationships, the occasional blinding toothache.
你在任何转变过程中都会经历同样的症状——情绪波动、成长的痛苦、紧张的人际关系、偶尔的牙痛。
To find a centaurite support group near you, consult our website.
要查找您附近的半人马座支持小组，请访问我们的网站。
Over the next few months, the change slowly inched upwards.
在接下来的几个月里，这种变化慢慢上升。
My human ankles became horse ankles.
我的人脚踝变成了马脚踝。
I grew coarse, caramel-colored hair on my legs.
我的腿上长出了粗糙的焦糖色毛发。
My femurs stretched and thickened.
我的股骨伸展并变厚。
Occasionally, I felt sharp pains in my bones, growing pains.
偶尔，我会感到骨头里一阵剧痛，生长痛。
But other than that, the physical transition felt invigorating.
但除此之外，身体上的转变让人感觉精力充沛。
My rage, however, only grew.
然而，我的愤怒只增不减。
I was energized by aimless, volcanic fury 100% of the time.
100%的时间里，我都被漫无目的的火山般的愤怒所激励。
Perhaps I wasn't changing my nature but recognizing something that had always been there.
也许我并没有改变我的本性，而是认识到一些一直存在的东西。
My boredom had never really been boredom but rather a deep, deep anger.
我的无聊从来都不是真正的无聊，而是一种深深的愤怒。
Where had this come from?
这是从哪里来的？
Did everyone have it?
每个人都有吗？
My anger was obvious now to everyone I met.
现在我遇到的每个人都明显感到我的愤怒。
I responded to routine rudenesses, catcalling, crowding on the subway by snarling, flashing my eyes, baring my teeth.
我对日常的粗鲁行为、嘘声、在地铁里拥挤的反应是咆哮、眨眼睛、龇牙咧嘴。
People's eyes grew wide.
人们的眼睛都睁大了。
They stepped back.
他们后退了一步。
They treated me like the dangerous animal I was.
他们对待我就像对待危险的动物一样。
I loved it.
我喜欢它。
Serena, too, was changing.
瑟琳娜也在改变。
The pregnancy had rooted in her body, and she blossomed.
怀孕已经在她的身体里扎根，她开花了。
The first sonogram showed not one but two fetuses in her belly.
第一张超声波检查显示她肚子里不是一个胎儿，而是两个胎儿。
Every moment she wasn't teaching, she was at the computer researching the development of the strange creatures inside of her.
在她不上课的每一刻，她都在电脑前研究她体内奇怪生物的发育。
I, on the other hand, found myself unable to sit still.
而我却发现自己坐不住了。
I'd sit down, get through one paragraph, then feel it kick through me, the wildness, the aimless rage.
我会坐下来，读完一段话，然后感觉它席卷了我，狂野，漫无目的的愤怒。
Then one evening, I got so frustrated with my work that I stood up and kicked a hole right through the kitchen cabinet.
有一天晚上，我对自己的工作感到非常沮丧，于是我站起来，在厨房的橱柜上踢了一个洞。
Serena appeared in the doorway, pale, one hand on the swell of her belly.
瑟琳娜出现在门口，脸色苍白，一只手放在隆起的肚子上。
We stared at each other, gripped by the same mute question.
我们面面相觑，都被同一个无声的问题所困扰。
How much longer could we go on like this sharing the same space?
我们这样共享同一个空间还能持续多久？
That night, lying in bed, I heard the unmistakable sound of muffled weeping.
那天晚上，我躺在床上，听到了明显的低声哭泣声。
I got up, knocked lightly on Serena's door.
我起身，轻轻敲了敲瑟琳娜的门。
I walked in, sat on the edge of the bed, lightly stroked her hair.
我走进去，坐在床边，轻轻抚摸着她的头发。
"What's the matter?" I said.
“怎么了？”我说。
"Nothing," she choked out.
“没什么，”她哽咽道。
But before I could respond, she corrected herself.
但还没等我反应过来，她就纠正了自己。
"I'm terrified.
“我很害怕。
This is the biggest thing I've ever done, and I'm doing it totally alone."
这是我做过的最重要的事情，而且完全是我一个人做的。”
"You have your family," I said.
“你有你的家人，”我说。
"You have your friends." "Yeah, except for you." "You can come visit me," I said.
“你有你的朋友。” “是啊，除了你。” “你可以来看我，”我说。
"Bring your kids to the ranch." "Tell them what?"
“带你的孩子去牧场吧。” “告诉他们什么？”
"This is your aunt Cassie.
“这是你的卡西阿姨。
She was restless and turned herself into an animal." "That's supposed to be an example of some sort?
她焦躁不安，把自己变成了动物。” “这应该是某种例子吧？
Things get hard, and you just leave?
事情变得艰难，你就离开吗？
Just peace out of human life entirely?"
人类生活就只剩下和平了吗？”
In the greenish light coming through the window, Serena seemed distinct and alien, like someone I had never seen, really seen, before.
在透过窗户的绿光中，瑟琳娜显得独特而陌生，就像我以前从未见过、真正见过的人一样。
The protrusion of her belly was impossible to ignore.
她隆起的腹部让人无法忽视。
There were two whole people in there.
里面有两个完整的人。
For the first time, the terrifying marvel of this fact hit me full force.
这是我第一次对这个事实感到震惊。
Perhaps her transformation was even stranger, even wilder than mine.
也许她的转变比我的更奇怪、更狂野。
Is the change reversible?
这种变化是可逆的吗？
No change is ever reversible.
没有任何变化是可以逆转的。
What happens if the process doesn't work on me?
如果这个过程对我不起作用怎么办？
You'll get your money back.
你会拿回你的钱的。
And we may ask you to participate in an ongoing scientific study of long-term centaurite health outcomes, for compensation.
我们可能会要求您参加一项正在进行的有关半人马座长期健康结果的科学研究，以获得补偿。
But you may decline.
但你可能会拒绝。
That's it?
就是这样？
It's not possible for us to do more.
我们不可能做更多的事情。
Our hope is that the centaurites living among us will be viewed not as freaks or as failures, but as courageous-- female animals who gathered up all the uncertainties of their existence into one single, massive risk.
我们的希望是，生活在我们中间的半人马兽不会被视为怪胎或失败者，而是勇敢的雌性动物，它们将自己存在的所有不确定性集中到一个单一的巨大风险中。
I went for a checkup with the Atalanta doctor.
我去亚特兰大医生那里做了检查。
The visit was routine, had been scheduled for months.
这次访问是例行公事，已经安排了几个月。
But I was nervous.
但我很紧张。
My progress since the last visit seemed to have stalled.
自上次访问以来我的进展似乎陷入了停滞。
She examined me all over and said "hmm" a lot.
她把我打量了一遍，说了很多“嗯”。
I grew increasingly worried.
我越来越担心。
When I got home from the doctors, I saw that yet another delivery of baby stuff-- hand-me-downs from friends, large Amazon boxes full of equipment-- had arrived at the apartment and completely taken over the living room.
当我从医生那里回到家时，我看到又一批婴儿用品——朋友们的旧衣服、装满设备的亚马逊大箱子——已经抵达公寓，完全占据了客厅。
To reach the couch, I had to pick my way over and between the boxes, stepping as delicately as possible with my horse legs, legs that were not made to do anything delicately.
为了到达沙发，我必须在箱子之间小心翼翼地走，用我的马腿尽可能小心地迈着步，这些腿本来就不是用来做任何事情的。
Even when I got there, I couldn't sit down.
即使我到了那里，我也无法坐下来。
It was piled high with baby clothes.
里面堆满了婴儿衣服。
I lost it.
我把它弄丢了。
I whirled around and began kicking with an aimless violence that startled me with its force.
我转过身，开始漫无目的地用力踢腿，其力量让我吃惊。
I had not intended this.
我不是故意的。
I was beyond intention.
我超出了本意。
Like if I stopped kicking and hurling things, I would cease to exist.
就像如果我停止踢东西和扔东西，我就会不复存在。
By the time I managed to stop, I had wrecked not only most of the new baby equipment but also the large flat screen television and the coffee table.
当我设法停下来时，我不仅毁坏了大部分新婴儿用品，还毁坏了大屏幕平板电视和咖啡桌。
I looked around at the torn baby blankets strewn with broken glass, the mutilated breast pump, the mangled stroller.
我环顾四周，看到撕破的婴儿毯子上散落着碎玻璃，残破的吸奶器，破损的婴儿车。
Just then, a key turned in the lock, and Serena stood in the doorway.
就在这时，一把钥匙插进锁里，瑟琳娜站在门口。
She looked from me to the mess, from the mess back to me.
她的目光从我身上转向那片混乱，又从那片混乱又回到我身上。
Her face hardened.
她的脸色变得严肃起来。
I could offer no defense or consolation.
我无法提供任何辩护或安慰。
I had only one option.
我只有一个选择。
"I'm going to leave now," I said.
“我现在要走了，”我说。
"I'll find someplace else to stay." She nodded with no expression.
“我会找别的地方住的。”她面无表情地点点头。
I walked aimlessly, vaguely in the direction of the downtown hotels.
我漫无目的地走着，模模糊糊地朝市中心酒店的方向走去。
My muscles grew leaden with shame.
我的肌肉因羞耻而变得沉重。
I felt like I was walking underwater.
我感觉自己好像在水下行走。
What pained me was not the notion that my wildness, my horseyness, had finally overtaken me.
让我痛苦的并不是我的野性、我的马术最终战胜了我。
It was the suspicion that my violence had been entirely human.
人们怀疑我的暴力行为完全是人为的。
That night, under a scratchy hotel blanket, I contemplated my situation.
那天晚上，我在旅馆的毯子下刮得发痒，思考着自己的处境。
For the first time in nearly a year, I cried-- sobbing into the lumpy pillow, mourning the grotesque monster that I was, howling at my failure, my loneliness, my inadequacy as woman and as animal.
近一年来我第一次哭了——在凹凸不平的枕头上抽泣，哀悼我这个怪诞的怪物，为我的失败、我的孤独、我作为女人和动物的不足而嚎叫。
Eventually, from sheer exhaustion, I slept.
最终，由于极度疲惫，我睡着了。
When I woke in the morning, I saw that during my few hours of sleep the fur had finally reached upwards.
当我早上醒来时，我发现在我睡眠的几个小时里，毛终于向上长了。
My breasts were gone, replaced by a fine equine torso.
我的胸部消失了，取而代之的是精美的马躯干。
I raised my hands to touch it, then realized that they had been replaced by another set of hooves.
我抬起手去触摸它，然后发现它们已经被另一组蹄子取代了。
I felt practically ambushed by relief.
我几乎感到如释重负。
I went downstairs to the concierge, asked her to use her human fingers to make a phone call.
我下楼到礼宾部，请她用人类的手指打电话。
Red-faced and excited, she rang Atalanta.
她红着脸，兴奋地给亚特兰大打了电话。
They would send someone that afternoon, they said, to pick me up.
他们说，那天下午他们会派人来接我。
Can my loved ones visit me at the ranch?
我的亲人可以来牧场探望我吗？
Yes.
是的。
Will they recognize me?
他们会认出我吗？
Most of them claim to, but it's impossible to determine how much this recognition depends upon wishful thinking.
他们中的大多数人都声称如此，但无法确定这种认识在多大程度上取决于一厢情愿。
Can they ride me?
他们可以骑我吗？
We don't recommend it.
我们不推荐它。
So far, every attempt has ended in tragedy.
到目前为止，每一次尝试都以悲剧告终。
I have four horse legs, and a horse torso, and a horse head.
我有四条马腿，一个马躯干，一个马头。
Outwardly, at least, I am all animal.
至少从表面上看，我是个动物。
I believe I still have a human brain mostly.
我相信我大部分还是有人类大脑的。
But every day, its language grows rougher around the edges.
但每一天，它的语言都变得更加粗糙。
For minutes at a time when I'm running or eating in the pasture, I have no thoughts.
当我在牧场跑步或吃东西时，有时会有几分钟的时间我没有任何想法。
My brain is not empty exactly.
我的大脑并不完全是空的。
It's as though a hot wind blows certain textures through my mind.
就好像一阵热风吹过我的脑海里的某些纹理。
My rage has diminished, but I am neither contained nor calm.
我的愤怒已经减弱，但我既不克制也不平静。
I feel many emotions now, but they don't quite fit the words I know.
我现在感受到了很多情感，但它们与我所知道的词语不太相符。
I would describe them mostly as variations of active receptivity, of alert acceptance.
我将它们主要描述为积极接受性和警报接受性的变化。
Somewhere soon, Serena will be teaching her children the words for things.
很快，瑟琳娜就会教她的孩子们表达事物的词语。
This is a table.
这是一张桌子。
This is a chair.
这是一把椅子。
This is a horse.
这是一匹马。
Meanwhile, my language is slowly departing, the words replaced by syllable and breath-- yes, mm, yes, huh, no, mm, [WHINNYING].
与此同时，我的语言正在慢慢消失，单词被音节和呼吸所取代——是，嗯，是，呵呵，不，嗯，[呜呜]。
Maybe she'll come visit me one day.
也许有一天她会来看我。
Perhaps in my absence her hard judgments of me will soften, turn into questions.
也许在我不在的情况下，她对我的严厉评判会软化，变成问题。
They will lead her to me across the long grass.
他们会带她穿过长长的草丛来见我。
And I'll look at her and nod.
我会看着她点点头。
She won't try to ride me, but I'll let her approach, put a hand on my forehead.
她不会试图骑我，但我会让她靠近，把手放在我的额头上。
We'll both feel a sudden snare of recognition-- wildness face-to-face with itself.
我们都会突然感受到一种认识的陷阱——面对面的狂野。
Grace Gummer and Geraldine Hughes reading a short story by Amy Bonnaffons.
格蕾丝·古默和杰拉尔丁·休斯正在阅读艾米·博纳芬斯的短篇小说。
It's a part of her collection of short stories called The Wrong Heaven, which is available for preorder at Amazon and elsewhere.
这是她的短篇小说集《错误的天堂》的一部分，该小说可在亚马逊和其他地方预订。
We're program was produced today by Robyn Semien.
我们今天的节目由 Robyn Semien 制作。
Our staff includes Elna Baker, Elise Bergerson, Susan Burton, Ben Calhoun, Zoe Chace, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Kimberly Henderson, David Kestenbaum, Seth Lind, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, B.A.
我们的员工包括 Elna Baker、Elise Bergerson、Susan Burton、Ben Calhoun、Zoe Chace、Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Kimberly Henderson、David Kestenbaum、Seth Lind、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、B.A.
Parker, Alissa Shipp, Lilly Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
帕克、艾丽莎·希普、莉莉·沙利文、克里斯托弗·斯韦塔拉、马特·蒂尔尼、朱莉·惠特克和黛安·吴。
Our senior producer is Brian Reed.
我们的高级制片人是布莱恩·里德。
Special thanks today to Leo Mankiewicz.
今天特别感谢里奥·曼凯维奇。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们计划的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, he was explaining to me the other day why he had a horse in a hot tub.
你知道，有一天他向我解释为什么他有一匹马在热水浴缸里。
This is one of the secrets, actually, of being able to get good photography is making the animal relaxed.
实际上，能够拍出好的照片的秘诀之一就是让动物放松。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。