627: Suitable for Children - This American Life
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Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #627 | October 6, 2017 627: Suitable for Children Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 627 集 | 2017 年 10 月 6 日 627：适合儿童 注意：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass There's a story my mom used to like to tell.
序言 Ira Glass 我妈妈曾经喜欢讲一个故事。
My older sister Randi was eight or so when this happened.
这件事发生时，我姐姐兰迪大约八岁。
Something came up at school that Randi didn't understand, and she came home and she asked my mom, where do babies come from?
学校里发生了兰迪不明白的事情，她回到家问我妈妈，婴儿从哪里来？
And my mom just felt like, great.
我妈妈只是觉得，太棒了。
This is great.
这太棒了。
She's bringing this up on her own.
她自己提出这件事。
I don't have to sit her down in some awkward birds and bees conversation someday.
有一天我不必让她坐下来进行一些尴尬的鸟类和蜜蜂谈话。
We can get this out of the way now, when she's young.
当她还年轻的时候，我们现在就可以解决这个问题。
And she's really excited to tell her this stuff.
她很高兴能告诉她这些事情。
And she explains the whole thing, where babies come from, what sex is.
她解释了整个事情，婴儿从哪里来，性是什么。
And the way my mom always used to tell this story, she said that she felt like, I am doing such a good job here.
我妈妈总是用讲述这个故事的方式，她说她感觉，我在这里做得很好。
I am such a good mom today.
今天我真是一个好妈妈。
And at the end of it, she asked Randi, OK, so that's everything.
最后，她问兰迪，好吧，就这样。
Do you have any questions?
您还有什么疑问吗？
And then Randi pauses for a long moment and she asks, can birds really fly?
然后兰迪停顿了很长一段时间，她问，鸟真的能飞吗？
And my mom realizes, of course, oh, she was not ready.
我妈妈当然意识到，哦，她还没有准备好。
She absorbed nothing.
她什么也没吸收。
And sure enough, like a year passes and Randi comes back to her-- I don't remember why-- and asks her again, where do babies come from?
果然，一年过去了，兰迪回到她身边——我不记得为什么——并再次问她，婴儿从哪里来？
And it's like the first time never happened.
就好像第一次从未发生过一样。
She remembered none of it.
她什么都不记得了。
And I think of that story sometimes when there are debates over what is suitable for children.
当人们争论什么适合儿童时，我有时会想起这个故事。
An I think there's a whole category of things that kids protect themselves from, like they just don't want to engage with that stuff.
我认为孩子们会保护自己免受一整类事情的影响，就像他们只是不想接触那些东西一样。
Adults don't need to keep them from it.
成年人不需要阻止他们。
But then there's other stuff, stuff that does seep into their world that they take to heart and they mull about and they make part of themselves.
但还有其他一些东西，那些确实渗透到他们的世界中的东西，他们牢记在心，思考并成为自己的一部分。
And the thing that's difficult is that it can be really hard to predict what those things are going to be.
困难的是，很难预测这些事情将会是什么。
Today on our program, things that kids hear, things they see, things that happen to them that affect them in ways that they only understand later as adults.
今天在我们的节目中，孩子们听到的事情、看到的事情、发生在他们身上的事情对他们的影响只有他们成年后才能理解。
Like for instance, what it means to give little black kids toys that celebrate the Confederacy, or to drag teenage boys into the desert to watch atomic bombs go off, or to send kids who should be in elementary school over the border into the United States alone.
比如，给黑人小孩子送庆祝联邦的玩具，或者把十几岁的男孩拖到沙漠里观看原子弹爆炸，或者把应该上小学的孩子送到边境单独进入美国意味着什么。
How do you even quantify exactly what that does to a person?
您如何准确量化这对一个人的影响？
Well, today, we try to figure that out.
好吧，今天，我们试图弄清楚这一点。
From WBEZ Chicago, is This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
We got the idea for this week's show from this thing that happened to one of our producers, Neil Drumming, a realization that he came to in adulthood about a TV show that he'd watched as a kid.
我们本周节目的想法来自我们的制作人之一尼尔·德鲁明（Neil Drumming）身上发生的一件事，他在成年后意识到他小时候看过的一部电视节目。
Here's Neil.
这是尼尔。
The hit TV show The Dukes of Hazzard ran from 1979 to 1985.
热门电视节目《哈扎德公爵》于 1979 年至 1985 年播出。
It starred John Schneider and Tom Wopat as Bo and Luke Duke, to rakish good old boys trying to stay on the right side of the law in rural Georgia.
该剧由约翰·施奈德和汤姆·沃帕特饰演波·杜克和卢克·杜克，他们在佐治亚州农村地区诱骗那些试图遵守法律的好男孩。
But if you ask any man my age who was a fan of the show, The Dukes of Hazzard's true star was a bright orange 1969 Dodge Charger nicknamed the General Lee.
但如果你问任何与我同龄的人谁是这部剧的粉丝，就会发现《哈扎德公爵》真正的明星是一辆亮橙色的 1969 年道奇 Charger，绰号“李将军”。
Every week on CBS, the General Lee would roar through country backroads, leaping over virtually everything, defying the laws of physics, and blowing little boys' minds across America.
每周，在哥伦比亚广播公司的节目中，李将军都会咆哮着穿过乡村小路，跳过几乎所有的东西，挑战物理定律，让美国各地的小男孩们大吃一惊。
I had a General Lee.
我身边有一个李将军。
Neil Drumming In like a Matchbox or Hot Wheels?
尼尔像火柴盒或风火轮一样敲鼓？
No, I had a straight-up-- like the plastic joint.
不，我有一个直接的——就像塑料接头一样。
A big-sized one.
一个大号的。
You know, go around, drive on your dad's foot and he'd get angry.
你知道，开车踩到你爸爸的脚他会生气的。
That size.
那个尺寸。
This is one of my favorite rappers, Breeze Brewin.
这是我最喜欢的说唱歌手之一，Breeze Brewin。
He's from the Bronx.
他来自布朗克斯。
Like me, he watched The Dukes of Hazzard faithfully as a boy.
和我一样，他小时候也忠实地观看了《哈扎德公爵》。
We both had Dukes of Hazzard lunchboxes.
我们都有哈扎德公爵午餐盒。
And we were both proud owners of miniature versions of the General Lee.
我们都自豪地拥有缩小版的李将军。
Back then, it was probably one of the most coveted toys any kid in either of our neighborhoods could possess.
当时，它可能是我们两个社区的孩子们最梦寐以求的玩具之一。
I remember the bully of the neighborhood stole mine and tried to pretend it was his.
我记得邻居的恶霸偷了我的，并试图假装是他的。
I hate when that happens.
我讨厌这种事发生。
This is mine, right?
这是我的，对吗？
I'm like, no, it's definitely not.
我想，不，绝对不是。
The General Lee was remarkable, not just because it was both fast and furious before that was a thing, but because its rooftop was emblazoned with the Confederate flag.
李将军号非常引人注目，不仅因为它在出现之前既速度又猛烈，还因为它的屋顶上印有南方联盟旗帜。
As kids, black kids, pushing our mini American muscle along the carpets and concrete of New York City, neither Breeze nor I saw anything bothersome about that bold symbol up top.
当孩子们，黑人孩子们，在纽约市的地毯和混凝土上推动我们的迷你美国肌肉时，微风和我都没有看到顶部那个大胆的符号有什么麻烦。
In fact, for us at the time, the rebel flag was just part of what made the car so damn cool.
事实上，对于当时的我们来说，叛逆旗帜只是让这辆车如此酷的一部分。
There was a kid in my neighborhood, Irish kid.
我家附近有一个孩子，爱尔兰孩子。
He had a orange Dodge Challenger 440, no flag on the top.
他有一辆橙色的道奇挑战者 440，车顶上没有旗帜。
I remember a lot of us were like, damn, he needs to throw the flag on top of that bad boy.
我记得我们很多人都想，该死，他需要把旗帜扔到那个坏男孩身上。
Wait.
等待。
It was a real car or it was a toy?
这是一辆真车还是一个玩具？
No, he drove that bad boy.
不，他赶走了那个坏男孩。
And you heard him coming down the block.
你听到他沿着街区走来。
You were just like, that car would be dope.
你就像，那辆车太棒了。
That car would be dope if he had that flag on that bad boy.
如果那个坏男孩身上挂着那面旗帜，那辆车就太棒了。
I got the idea to talk to Breeze about this because, in 2001, as part of his group the Juggaknots, he wrote and released a song called "Generally." It's spelled like the adverb, but a play on the name of the Duke's prized racer.
我之所以想和 Breeze 讨论这个问题，是因为 2001 年，作为他的 Juggaknots 乐队的一员，他创作并发行了一首名为“Generally”的歌曲。它的拼写与副词相似，但却是对公爵最珍贵的赛车手名字的玩笑。
I don't remember exactly when I heard the song, but by then it'd been over 15 years since The Dukes of Hazzard went off the air.
我不记得是什么时候听到这首歌的，但距离《哈扎德公爵》停播已经过去 15 年多了。
I hadn't thought about the show or the car in ages.
我已经很久没有想过这个节目或汽车了。
I'm pretty sure that when I was in my 20s and heard "Generally," well, that was the first time I put two and two together and realized, oh wait.
我很确定，当我 20 多岁的时候，听到“一般来说”，嗯，那是我第一次把两个和两个放在一起，然后意识到，哦等等。
One of my favorite toys growing up actually bore an unabashed affront to my humanity and freedom.
我成长过程中最喜欢的玩具之一实际上公然侮辱了我的人性和自由。
The flag on the roof, how the hell did I miss that?
屋顶上的旗帜，我怎么会错过呢？
Listening to the song again recently, I thought maybe it was about Breeze himself coming to that same realization.
最近再次听这首歌，我想也许 Breeze 自己也有同样的认识。
We are the same age, after all.
毕竟我们是同龄人。
But when he and I met to talk about it, Breeze said he'd recognize the inherent put-down in the General Lee's paint job by the time he was in high school.
但当他和我见面谈论这件事时，布雷兹说，当他上高中时，他就认识到李将军的油漆工作中固有的贬低。
He was actually inspired to write "Generally" a few years later, after he'd had kids of his own.
几年后，当他有了自己的孩子后，他实际上受到了写《一般》的启发。
One day, he took them on a shopping trip.
有一天，他带他们去购物。
I was literally in Toys "R" Us, probably on Gun Hill Road, near Co-op City, or the one in Yonkers, on Central Ave, and kids losing their shh, looking for toys and me questioning, like, what's up with these toys?
我确实在玩具“反”斗城里，可能在合作城附近的枪山路，或者在中央大道上的扬克斯，孩子们在寻找玩具，而我则在问，这些玩具怎么了？
And then I see the General Lee.
然后我看到了李将军。
The iconic roadster was back on the shelves, being pushed on a new generation to promote some TV movie relaunch.
这款标志性跑车重新上架，被推向新一代，以促进一些电视电影的重新推出。
Do you remember it?
你还记得吗？
Breeze Brewin What, the song?
Breeze Brewin 什么，这首歌？
Can you take me through it?
你能带我经历一下吗？
Breeze Brewin You want bars?
Breeze Brewin 您想要酒吧吗？
Yeah, man.
是的，伙计。
Breeze Brewin Oh, man.
微风布鲁温哦，伙计。
It's tough.
它太硬。
I'm 43.
我43岁了。
You're driving me batty.
你快把我逼疯了。
Daddy survive and be seeming slimmin' screaming women.
爸爸活了下来，而且在尖叫的女人面前显得很苗条。
Could the sound be more annoying?
声音还能更烦人吗？
The thing I love about Breeze is that he writes these dense, clever, impressionistic rhymes that sound like words tumbling down stairs.
我喜欢微风的一点是，他写下了这些密集、巧妙、印象派的押韵，听起来就像文字从楼梯上滚下来一样。
In this first verse, he's telling the story of that trip to Toys "R" Us, building the scene of a frustrated parent overwhelmed by toys and demanding children.
在这首诗中，他讲述了那次玩具“反”斗城之旅的故事，构建了一个沮丧的父母被玩具和要求过高的孩子压垮的场景。
Baggin' all these whack toys.
把所有这些笨重的玩具装进袋子里。
Try to lack noise.
尽量避免噪音。
Peace and quiet.
和平与安静。
Cease a riot constructively, then what I see, the General Lee.
建设性地停止骚乱，然后我看到的是，李将军。
And I said, you know what?
我说，你知道吗？
I need to explore this idea.
我需要探索这个想法。
Why did they think that was OK?
为什么他们认为这样可以？
Why did they think that they can show this image and make us champion that image?
为什么他们认为他们可以展示这个形象并让我们拥护这个形象？
Why is it OK to make our pain this pop icon?
为什么可以让我们的痛苦成为流行偶像？
Why was it OK?
为什么没问题？
I just wanted to attack it, that you would have the audacity to do that.
我只是想攻击一下，你竟敢这么做。
I was just thinking, not with my kids.
我只是在想，没有和我的孩子们在一起。
Neil Drumming So then there's the chorus after that, right?
尼尔打鼓 那么接下来就是副歌，对吧？
Yeah.
是的。
So the chorus is like, the General Lee, representin' for your clan.
所以合唱团就像是李将军，代表你的氏族。
The General Lee, for real, somebody pulled a fast one.
李将军，确实，有人拉得很快。
The General Lee, now I'm starting to overstand.
李将军，现在我开始明白了。
The General Lee wasn't the first.
李将军并不是第一个。
Won't be the last one.
不会是最后一个。
I love that line, "Somebody pulled a fast one," just because it's nice.
我喜欢这句话，“有人拉得很快”，只是因为它很好听。
It's like, the car is fast.
就好像，车开得很快。
It's a really nice line.
这是一条非常好的线路。
I appreciate that.
我很欣赏这一点。
Neil Drumming That's very slick.
尼尔打鼓，非常流畅。
I mean, it's pretty blatant.
我的意思是，这非常明目张胆。
It's the hoodwinking.
这就是忽悠啊
They got over, you know?
他们已经过去了，你知道吗？
They normalized it, for better or for worse.
无论好坏，他们都将其正常化。
It's a huge screw you.
你真是个大混蛋。
It's like, we're going to do this.
就像，我们要做这件事。
You're not going to say nothing.
你不会什么也不说。
We're going to put it on prime time TV.
我们将把它放在电视黄金时段。
We're going to put it in Toys "R" Us.
我们要把它放在玩具“反”斗城里。
In fact, you're going to buy it.
事实上，你会买它。
In the song, I say, "But sell my L.
在歌曲中，我说：“但是卖掉我的 L.
Sell my loss."
卖掉我的损失。”
Of course, at seven, eight, nine years old, it wasn't Breeze and I controlling the TV remote or spending our hard-earned cash.
当然，在七岁、八岁、九岁的时候，我和微风并不是在控制电视遥控器，也不是在花我们辛苦赚来的钱。
It was ultimately our parents who let us watch the show and bought us the toys.
最终是我们的父母让我们看节目并给我们买了玩具。
Considering that both of my parents were born and raised in rural South Carolina and experienced chilling racism firsthand, you'd think they would have objected to the Dukes and their General Lee.
考虑到我的父母都在南卡罗来纳州的农村出生和长大，并亲身经历了令人毛骨悚然的种族主义，你可能会认为他们会反对杜克家族和他们的李将军。
But they didn't.
但他们没有。
Breeze's parents, who are from the Caribbean, they didn't either.
微风的父母来自加勒比海，但他们也不是。
He has a theory as to what our parents were thinking.
他对我们父母的想法有一个理论。
I think it's a lot about, I don't want my kids to be left out.
我认为这很重要，我不想让我的孩子被排除在外。
I don't want my kids to be weird.
我不希望我的孩子变得奇怪。
It was a number-one show.
这是一场排名第一的演出。
So it was like, why deny them that?
所以这就像是，为什么要否认他们呢？
OK.
好的。
This is important.
这很重要。
On TV, the doors on the General Lee were welded shut, as is common with a lot of stock race cars.
在电视上，李将军的车门被焊接关闭，这在许多库存赛车中很常见。
So Bo and Luke Duke were constantly hopping through the windows.
所以波和卢克·杜克不断地从窗户跳出去。
It was the only way in or out of the car.
这是进出汽车的唯一途径。
Here's Breeze with the song's final verse.
这是 Breeze 带来的歌曲的最后一段歌词。
Disturbable to see what we was murdered to when it coulda, shoulda been a convertible.
令人不安的是，当它可以、应该是一辆敞篷车时，我们却被谋杀了。
I started off with like, you know what?
我一开始就想，你知道吗？
You's constantly jumping in and out of the windows.
你不断地从窗户跳进跳出。
It would have made more sense and been more practical to have been a convertible.
如果是敞篷车的话会更有意义、更实用。
Just cut the top off.
把顶部剪掉就可以了。
Chop the top off.
把顶部切掉。
But you needed it.
但你需要它。
You needed the top of the car.
你需要车顶。
You needed to show that image because that's the pimpery.
你需要展示那个图像，因为那是皮疹。
That's the game.
这就是游戏。
I get it.
我得到它。
Y'all wanted to see it.
你们都想看。
Here it is.
这里是。
Disturbable to see what we was murdered to when it coulda, shoulda been a convertible.
令人不安的是，当它可以、应该是一辆敞篷车时，我们却被谋杀了。
See that they're climbin' through the windows and go make better time and do the pro hoppin', but no stopping commercial use.
看到他们爬进窗户，去争取更好的时间并进行职业跳跃，但不要停止商业用途。
The issue, they get you with decals.
问题是，他们会给你贴花。
Match the lunchbox, pajamas.
搭配饭盒、睡衣。
You wanna snatch the bunch.
你想抢走这群人。
Lock that be wild, generally praise the stuff, crave the stuff, slaves to stuff.
锁是狂野的，通常赞美东西，渴望东西，东西的奴隶。
Get it for me, begging like, please.
求求你帮我拿一下吧。
So now, with that, I talked about how I would beg my parents for it.
所以现在，我谈到了我将如何恳求我的父母。
But then it's just like sporting the pain.
但这就像炫耀疼痛一样。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
Like, you were sporting my pain and it's literally a comedy.
就像，你在表演我的痛苦，这简直就是一部喜剧。
Sportin' the pain.
运动疼痛。
Sure was a brainwashed kid, but never had a fad with rockin' a swastika.
当然是一个被洗脑的孩子，但从来没有热衷于摇滚纳粹标志。
Of course, Nazi.
当然是纳粹。
But that I'd rather not see.
但我宁愿不看到。
The closest that I got be [INAUDIBLE] Haile Selassie.
我最接近的是[听不清] Haile Selassie。
But sell my L, see it's nothing than this double standard.
但卖掉我的L，看看这只不过是双重标准。
Trouble, be it something candid or this subtle.
麻烦，无论是坦白的还是微妙的。
Gun the flag down.
用枪把国旗降下来。
What?
什么？
No hesitatin'.
毫不犹豫。
Gutter regulation.
天沟调节。
[BLEEP] the legislation.
[BLEEP] 立法。
But now some of y'all walking around like, for shame, word, as I wonder what the murderers of James Byrd thought about the General Lee.
但现在你们中的一些人却羞愧地走来走去，就像我想知道杀害詹姆斯·伯德的凶手对李将军有什么看法。
In 1998, James Byrd, a black man in Texas, was badly beaten and pissed on by three white supremacists.
1998年，得克萨斯州黑人詹姆斯·伯德遭到三名白人至上主义者的殴打和愤怒。
The men then chained Byrd by his ankles to a pickup truck and dragged him over asphalt for roughly three miles.
随后，这些人将伯德的脚踝锁在一辆皮卡车上，将他拖过柏油路大约三英里。
Byrd died when his head and arm were severed from his body.
伯德的头和手臂与身体分离后死亡。
The white supremacists, who sported various Nazi and Confederate symbols, dumped Byrd's mutilated body near a black church.
带有各种纳粹和南方联盟标志的白人至上主义者将伯德残缺不全的尸体扔在一座黑人教堂附近。
This atrocity was heavy on Breeze's mind when he wrote "Generally," which is why the last verse ends in anger.
当布雷兹写下《一般情况》时，这种暴行在他的脑海中留下了沉重的印象，这就是为什么最后一节以愤怒结束的原因。
As he says, "Gun the flag down.
正如他所说：“用枪把旗帜放下。
No hesitating."
毫不犹豫。”
I kind of was like, I know some people are going to be like, Breeze, you're wilin'.
我有点像，我知道有些人会说，微风，你会的。
You're talking about shooting down a flag.
你说的是击落一面旗帜。
You should go through the right channels.
你应该通过正确的渠道。
There's legislation.
有立法。
But I'm like, word, well, what do the murderers of James Byrd think about the General Lee?
但我想，呃，谋杀詹姆斯·伯德的凶手对李将军有什么看法？
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
It's just like, at some point, we gotta kill your idols.
就像，在某个时候，我们必须杀死你的偶像。
We gotta burn your idols.
我们得烧掉你的偶像。
So you told me that you've been thinking about this song a lot lately.
所以你告诉我你最近一直在想这首歌。
Literally, like a week before you called, I was listening to the song and I almost got a little choked up.
从字面上看，就像你打电话前一周，我正在听这首歌，我几乎有点哽咽。
Because, like, god damn, you know what I mean?
因为，就像，该死的，你知道我的意思吗？
It's like, 16 years later, why is it still an issue?
就像，16年后，为什么它仍然是一个问题？
I'd like to think, come on.
我想想想，来吧。
You're better than that now, America.
美国，你现在比以前好多了。
That said, I can't help but harbor a little bit of nostalgia for the General Lee.
话虽如此，我还是忍不住对李将军怀有一丝怀念。
Not so much for the thing itself, but for what it represents for me, a time before I could possibly recognize the insidiousness of its design, before I really understood its origins or how that history has shaped me and the people I care about, back when all I really had to worry about was who had the coolest toy on the block.
与其说是为了这个东西本身，不如说是因为它对我来说意味着什么，在我可能认识到它的设计的阴险之前，在我真正理解它的起源或者这段历史如何塑造了我和我关心的人之前，那时我真正需要担心的是谁拥有街上最酷的玩具。
Neil Drumming is one of the producers of our program.
尼尔·鼓明是我们节目的制作人之一。
I honestly believe they should've changed the name Robert E.
老实说，我相信他们应该把名字改成罗伯特·E。
Lee High School a very long time ago, probably after, you know, '90s, early 2000s.
李高中是很久以前的事情了，大概是在 90 年代、2000 年代初期。
That's Joralen Maulbin.
那是乔拉伦·莫尔宾。
She's 16, a member of the drill team at Robert E.
她今年 16 岁，是 Robert E.
Lee High School in Tyler, Texas.
德克萨斯州泰勒的李高中。
A black girl with a blonde Afro, which, last Friday, was tucked under a white cowgirl hat, part of her drill team uniform.
一个留着金发爆炸头的黑人女孩，上周五，她戴着一顶白色女牛仔帽，这是她训练队制服的一部分。
She talked to our producer B.A.
她与我们的制片人 B.A. 进行了交谈。
Parker.
帕克.
I love being on this team.
我喜欢加入这个团队。
I love the girls who are on here.
我喜欢这里的女孩们。
But you know, the history is still there at the back of my mind, and I know a lot of it doesn't really bother that many people.
但你知道，历史仍然在我的脑海里，而且我知道其中很多并没有真正困扰很多人。
But it's still something that I find that gets to me.
但我发现这仍然是令我感动的事情。
That history is that Robert E.
这段历史就是罗伯特·E.
Lee High School was founded in 1958, four years after Brown vs. Board of Education as a place for white students to go to avoid integration.
李高中成立于 1958 年，即布朗诉教育委员会案四年后，作为白人学生逃避融合的地方。
The town gave it the name Robert E.
该镇将其命名为罗伯特·E.
Lee as a way to give the finger to the civil rights movement.
李以此来指责民权运动。
The school prided itself on having this massive Confederate flag, allegedly the second largest Confederate flag in the world.
学校以拥有这面巨大的南部邦联旗帜而自豪，据称这是世界上第二大南部邦联旗帜。
It took 20 people to carry it.
需要20个人才能搬运。
Then in the 1970s, the courts ordered the town to integrate the high school.
然后在 20 世纪 70 年代，法院命令该镇整合高中。
These days, 60% of the school was black and Latino, though in Tyler, it is still referred to as the white high school.
如今，学校 60% 的学生是黑人和拉丁裔，尽管在泰勒，它仍然被称为白人高中。
When they announce the name of the school at the beginning of games, Joralen says she just kind of blocks it out.
当他们在比赛开始时宣布学校的名称时，乔拉伦说她只是把它屏蔽掉。
She found out about the school's history a little while ago.
她不久前了解到了学校的历史。
I learned this last year, I believe, because we have memory books, and it dates back all the way to when Lee first opened.
我相信这是我去年学到的，因为我们有记忆册，而且它可以追溯到李刚开业的时候。
We were flipping through one of the very first ones and that was when I saw the uniforms and all the traditions that they used to have.
我们正在翻阅最早的一本，就在那时我看到了制服和他们曾经拥有的所有传统。
The Southern Belle Drill Team and our Belle Guards, they were called the Rebels and the Rebelettes, and they did wear confederate uniform style clothing and things like that.
南方美女训练队和我们的美女卫队，他们被称为叛军和叛军，他们确实穿着联邦制服风格的服装和类似的东西。
And they proudly displayed their confederate flag.
他们自豪地展示了他们的同盟旗帜。
And it just shocked me.
这让我很震惊。
And all I could think about was, what?
我所能想到的就是，什么？
Like, for real?
就像，真的吗？
Y'all are kidding me right now.
你们现在都在跟我开玩笑。
They try to make us learn it, but I never memorized it.
他们试图让我们学习它，但我从来没有记住它。
The school song starts with the lyrics, "Robert E.
校歌的开头是这样的歌词：“Robert E.
Lee, we raise our voices in praise of your name.
李，我们高声赞美你的名字。
May honor and glory e'er guide you to fame."
愿荣誉和荣耀永远引导你成名。”
Have you ever looked at the lyrics of it?
你有看过它的歌词吗？
I've looked at the lyrics, which is why I haven't tried to memorize it.
我看过歌词，所以我没有尝试去记住它。
Would you ever sing it?
你会唱这首歌吗？
Joralen Maulbin Never in my life.
乔拉伦·莫尔宾 我一生中从来没有。
Never.
绝不。
There's one lyric in the school song, "Our memories will bind us to Robert E.
校歌中有一句歌词：“我们的记忆将把我们与罗伯特·E.
Lee." That part definitely seems true.
李。”这部分看起来绝对是真的。
[MUSIC - "WAITING FOR THE ROBERT E.
[音乐-“等待罗伯特·E.
LEE" BY DEAN MARTIN]
李”，作者：迪恩·马丁]
So there are over 100 public schools around the country named after white Confederate heroes and over 700 monuments and statues memorializing the Confederacy in public places.
因此，全国各地有 100 多所公立学校以白人南方邦联英雄的名字命名，公共场所还有 700 多座纪念南方邦联的纪念碑和雕像。
Those numbers come from a survey done in 2016 by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
这些数字来自南方贫困法律中心 2016 年进行的一项调查。
But as people have noted in the last few months, with all this commemoration of the white experience of life in the South before and during the Civil War, there's not that much out there memorializing the black experience.
但正如人们在过去几个月中注意到的那样，尽管人们对南北战争之前和战争期间南方白人的生活经历进行了所有纪念，但纪念黑人经历的却并不多。
One of the few places is in Baltimore.
巴尔的摩是为数不多的几个地方之一。
I was surprised to learn it was there.
我很惊讶地发现它就在那里。
I grew up in Baltimore.
我在巴尔的摩长大。
And OK, this place came into existence after I moved away, but I am back in Baltimore regularly to see family.
好吧，这个地方是在我搬走后才出现的，但我会定期回到巴尔的摩看望家人。
And Baltimore is segregated enough that I never heard of it till B.A.
巴尔的摩的种族隔离程度非常严重，我在获得学士学位之前从未听说过它。
Parker, our producer who also grew up in Baltimore, told me about it.
帕克，我们的制片人，也在巴尔的摩长大，他告诉了我这件事。
Here she is.
她在这里。
Every black kid in Baltimore knows this place.
巴尔的摩的每个黑人孩子都知道这个地方。
Most of us went there on field trips when we were in school or were taken there by an earnest parent.
我们大多数人在上学时都去过那里进行实地考察，或者被热心的父母带到那里。
It's called the National Great Blacks in Wax Museum.
它被称为国家大黑人蜡像馆。
That's great blacks, and they're rendered in wax.
那是伟大的黑色，它们是用蜡制成的。
It's the first black history wax museum in the country.
这是该国第一家黑人历史蜡像馆。
I first went there on a field trip in the third grade.
我第一次去那里是在三年级的一次实地考察中。
And for better or worse, it's been stuck in my memory ever since.
无论好坏，从那时起它就一直留在我的记忆中。
To be honest, it scared the [BLEEP] out of me.
老实说，它吓坏了我[BLEEP]。
It's violent and graphic and unlike any other museum I've ever been to.
它充满暴力和生动，与我去过的任何其他博物馆都不一样。
And its main clientele was children.
它的主要顾客是儿童。
Even today, I can talk to anybody who grew up black and in Baltimore, and if you bring up the Blacks in Wax, they'll be like, yeah, that was messed up, right?
即使在今天，我也可以和任何在巴尔的摩长大的黑人交谈，如果你提起《蜡》中的黑人，他们会说，是的，那是一团糟，对吧？
Texting with friends and family about this last week, I got messages like, "I had nightmares," and "I started to tear up," and "I can still see it in my head." I wanted to go back to the museum to see if it was as bad as I remembered.
上周，我给朋友和家人发短信谈论此事，收到的信息包括“我做了噩梦”、“我开始流泪”、“我的脑海中仍然能看到它”。我想回到博物馆看看它是否像我记忆中的那么糟糕。
There's a crowd of people from a bus coming in.
一群人从公交车上进来。
There's a couple of kids.
有几个孩子。
B.A.
学士
Parker So I went back there recently with my colleague, Sean Cole.
帕克 所以我最近和我的同事肖恩·科尔一起回到了那里。
The museum itself is an old fire station and three row houses fused into one building.
博物馆本身是一个古老的消防站和三排房屋融合成一栋建筑。
In the lobby, the wax figures of W.E.B Du Bois and Carter G.
大堂里有 W.E.B Du Bois 和 Carter G. 的蜡像。
Woodson are there to greet you.
伍德森在那里迎接您。
Next to the ticket booth is a figure of the great military general Hannibal riding a massive elephant, and up overhead is the first black female pilot, Bessie Coleman.
售票亭旁边是伟大的军事将军汉尼拔骑着一头巨大大象的雕像，头顶上是第一位黑人女飞行员贝西·科尔曼。
Oh, I didn't even see there's an airplane above us.
哦，我什至没有看到我们上面有一架飞机。
There is an airplane above us with a cool chick in it with her shades on, and she's taking no one's mess.
我们头顶上有一架飞机，里面有一个很酷的小妞，戴着墨镜，她不会惹任何人的麻烦。
The lobby's all inspiring and stuff, but then you buy your ticket and actually enter the museum.
大厅里充满了鼓舞人心的东西，但随后你买了票并真正进入了博物馆。
Then everything changes.
然后一切都会改变。
A quick warning.
快速警告。
There's a lot of violence of all sorts in what follows.
接下来有很多各种各样的暴力。
It might not be for everyone.
它可能不适合所有人。
When you step inside the museum, it's dark.
当你走进博物馆时，天已经黑了。
Immediately to the right, there's a wax figure of a slave.
右边有一个奴隶的蜡像。
He's on his knees, his teeth knocked out, and he's being held down by two white slavers who pull his head back.
他跪在地上，牙齿被打掉，两个白人奴隶把他按在地上，把他的头向后拉。
They've shoved a long funnel into his mouth and are pouring gruel through it, force-feeding him.
他们把一个长漏斗塞进他嘴里，往里面倒稀粥，强行灌食。
Brown gruel spills out of his mouth.
棕色的稀粥从他嘴里流出来。
As an act of rebellion, some slaves wouldn't eat, so the slavers made them.
作为一种叛逆行为，一些奴隶不肯吃东西，所以奴隶贩子就做了它们。
This is the very first thing you see.
这是你看到的第一件事。
And then to the left is one of the museum's signature attractions.
然后左边是博物馆的标志性景点之一。
All right.
好的。
So do you want to go into the slave ship?
那么你想进入奴隶船吗？
They've built a facsimile of a slave ship into the museum.
他们在博物馆里建造了一艘奴隶船的复制品。
It's not that big, about the size of a large trailer, but when I was eight, it seemed enormous.
它没有那么大，大约有一辆大拖车那么大，但当我八岁的时候，它看起来很大。
Back then, walking down to the hold below was like walking onto an amusement park ride, only the opposite of fun.
那时，步行到下面的货舱就像走上游乐园的游乐设施，只是乐趣相反。
At the entrance, there are two white wax slave merchants, both impeccably dressed.
入口处，有两个白蜡奴隶商人，两人都衣着无可挑剔。
One sits behind a desk.
一个人坐在桌子后面。
It used to be that, when you stepped onto the stairs, a recording would play, one of the merchants announcing, "New load of slaves coming aboard now." At eight, I understood.
过去，当你走上楼梯时，就会播放一段录音，其中一位商人宣布：“新一批奴隶即将上船。”八岁时，我明白了。
They meant me.
他们指的是我。
I was supposed to be a new slave.
我本来应该成为一个新奴隶。
I burst into tears.
我泪流满面。
At first, I refused to go all the way down into the ship.
起初，我拒绝一路下船。
But the other kids did it, so I did it, too.
但其他孩子都这么做了，所以我也这么做了。
And what I saw when I got to the bottom of the steps was what I was seeing now.
当我到达台阶底部时所看到的就是我现在所看到的。
Another vicious-looking white man.
又一个面容凶恶的白人。
And he's branding a slave woman who has a chain around her neck and placing the brand on her shoulder.
他正在为一名脖子上挂着链子的女奴隶打上烙印，并将烙印放在她的肩膀上。
And she's fully nude and covered in blood.
她全身赤裸，浑身是血。
Jeez.
天啊。
It's just pure agony's on her face, and he looks like he's full of hate and anger and is just ready to torture someone.
她脸上只有纯粹的痛苦，而他看起来充满了仇恨和愤怒，正准备折磨某人。
None of this has changed.
这一切都没有改变。
There's collections on shelves of just parts of bodies bloodied.
架子上收藏的只是沾满血的尸体的一部分。
Being eaten by rats.
被老鼠吃掉。
That should be noted.
应当注意这一点。
There's one below that's dismembered and being eaten by rats.
下面的一个已经被肢解并被老鼠吃掉了。
The museum goes for an intense realism.
博物馆追求强烈的现实主义风格。
It doesn't leave anything out.
它没有遗漏任何东西。
It's over the top in a way that's almost campy.
这有点夸张了，几乎有点夸张。
This is probably because the wax figures all were made in the 1970s.
这可能是因为蜡像都是20世纪70年代制作的。
The slavers have mutton chops.
奴隶贩子有羊排。
A few of the slaves look more like they're from Good Times than from Roots.
一些奴隶看起来更像是来自美好时光而不是来自根源。
But the scenes are always based on documented atrocities.
但这些场景总是基于有记录的暴行。
At a certain point in the slave ship, I turn around and I see that the entire wall behind me is one huge mirror.
在奴隶船上的某个时刻，我转身，看到我身后的整面墙都是一面巨大的镜子。
And then I see the chained-up slaves and I'm forced to look at myself, and it comes home to me in an instant that these people are my ancestors.
然后我看到那些被锁链锁住的奴隶，我被迫看着自己，我立刻意识到这些人是我的祖先。
Without the torture, without the sorrow, without the misery that they endured during the Middle Passage, there would be no me.
没有他们在中途所经受的折磨、悲伤、痛苦，就不会有我。
So what do you remember from when you were a kid and seeing this?
那么当你还是个孩子的时候，看到这个你还记得什么？
I remember being confused and being scared.
我记得当时我很困惑，也很害怕。
The fact that it's someone who's my skin, my-- you don't have the language for it, but it is a pause and reflect.
事实上，这是一个属于我的皮肤的人，我的——你无法用语言来表达它，但这是一个停顿和反思。
And your eyes grow wide, and you're trying to understand what it means.
你的眼睛睁得大大的，你试图理解这意味着什么。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
I just got distracted by them trying to shove the guy in the oven.
我只是因为他们试图把那家伙推进烤箱而分心。
Sorry.
对不起。
What?
什么？
What?
什么？
B.A.
学士
Parker No, that's the Underground Railroad.
帕克：不，那是地下铁路。
That's a fake oven.
那是假烤箱。
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
B.A.
学士
Parker There was an exhibit behind Sean of a white man helping this runaway slave escape through an oven with a door in the back, allowing him to slip through from one house to another and another.
帕克在肖恩身后有一个展览，一名白人帮助这个逃跑的奴隶从后面有一扇门的烤箱里逃走，让他从一栋房子溜到另一栋房子。
As a kid, it wasn't like I was unfamiliar with black history.
小时候，我对黑历史并不陌生。
By the third grade, I'd already been to the plantation in North Carolina where my ancestors were sold.
到三年级时，我已经去过北卡罗来纳州的种植园，那里出售我的祖先。
I was obsessed with Thurgood Marshall.
我对瑟古德·马歇尔很着迷。
I wanted to be him.
我想成为他。
I wanted to marry him.
我想嫁给他。
Everything.
一切。
And my elementary school made such a big deal about Martin Luther King every year.
我的小学每年都会大肆宣传马丁·路德·金。
And I once got to play one of Coretta Scott King's bridesmaids in an assembly.
我曾经在一次集会上扮演科雷塔·斯科特·金的伴娘之一。
But it was exactly that, the elementary school version of black history-- Dr. King, Nelson Mandela, Rosa Parks, the coloring book of greatest hits, not the brutal reality.
但这正是小学版的黑人历史——金博士、纳尔逊·曼德拉、罗莎·帕克斯、最热门的图画书，而不是残酷的现实。
But none of this compares to what you see in the museum's basement.
但这一切都无法与您在博物馆地下室看到的相比。
The basement is so intense that the museum has posted a sign outside of it warning that you shouldn't go into it until you're at least 12.
地下室非常拥挤，以至于博物馆在外面贴了一个标志，警告您在年满 12 岁之前不得进入地下室。
Under 16, you need a chaperone.
16岁以下，您需要一名监护人。
We headed there, past Henry Box Brown, the slave who mailed himself to freedom in a box.
我们朝那里走去，经过亨利·博克斯·布朗（Henry Box Brown），他是一个用盒子邮寄自己以获得自由的奴隶。
When I was a kid, he'd pop out and wave but it startled too many kids and they don't do that anymore.
当我还是个孩子的时候，他会突然出现并挥手，但这吓到了太多孩子，他们不再这样做了。
We walked past Henry to the top of the basement stairs.
我们经过亨利，走到地下室楼梯的顶部。
All right.
好的。
So we're going to go downstairs to the lynching exhibit.
所以我们要下楼去看私刑展览。
I didn't see the lynching exhibit when I was eight.
我八岁时没有看到私刑展览。
I saw it on a second field trip when I was a freshman in high school.
当我还是高中一年级的时候，我在第二次实地考察时看到了它。
I still don't think I was ready.
我仍然认为我还没有准备好。
I don't think I was ready now.
我想我现在还没有准备好。
It starts off when you're still walking down the stairs, with historical photos and newspaper clippings of actual lynchings as recent as 1998.
当你还在走下楼梯时，故事就开始了，里面有历史照片和 1998 年实际私刑的剪报。
Black people hanging from trees, set on fire, dragged by trucks.
黑人被吊在树上、被点燃、被卡车拖走。
Photos of the dead surrounded by crowds of white spectators all decked out in their Sunday best, smiling little girls with ribbons in their hair looking at the camera, some with pride, a man hanging from a tree behind them.
照片上的死者被一群白人观众包围，他们都穿着周日最好的衣服，头发上系着丝带的小女孩微笑着看着镜头，有些人很自豪，一个男人挂在她们身后的树上。
Then at the bottom of the stairs, as soon as you round the corner.
然后在拐角处，到达楼梯底部。
Oh, my god.
我的天啊。
B.A.
学士
Parker Do you want me to describe what's happening here?
帕克：你想让我描述一下这里发生的事情吗？
In front of us was a husband and wife named Hayes and Mary Turner.
在我们面前的是一对名叫海耶斯和玛丽·特纳的夫妻。
They lived in Georgia.
他们住在乔治亚州。
Back in 1918, a local black man had killed a plantation owner.
早在 1918 年，当地一名黑人就杀害了一名种植园主。
And when the sheriff's office went hunting for the killer, they and a mob lynched practically every other black man in their path.
当治安官办公室追捕凶手时，他们和一群暴徒几乎用私刑处决了他们路上的所有其他黑人。
Hayes Turner was one of the casualties in that massacre.
海耶斯·特纳是那场大屠杀中的伤亡者之一。
A warning, this gets especially graphic.
警告，这变得特别生动。
Just as I was about to describe what happened next to Sean, the museum's educator, Imani Haynes, walked in, and I was grateful she did because she took over.
正当我正要描述肖恩身边发生的事情时，博物馆的教育家伊马尼·海恩斯走了进来，我很感激她这么做，因为她接手了。
He had nothing to do with the situation, and unfortunately he was lynched.
他与这起事件无关，不幸的是他被处以私刑。
Afterwards, he was castrated.
之后，他被阉割了。
So what you're seeing in this scene in the exhibit is Turner lynched.
所以你在展览中看到的这个场景是特纳被私刑处死的。
He is wearing overalls.
他穿着工作服。
And we have his overalls opened up in his private region, blood dripping down.
我们看到他的工作服在他的私人区域被打开，血滴下来。
Next to Hayes is his wife, Mary.
海耶斯旁边是他的妻子玛丽。
After he was lynched, Mary bravely went seeking justice for her husband.
在他被私刑处决后，玛丽勇敢地为她的丈夫寻求正义。
She was eight months pregnant at the time.
当时她已怀孕八个月。
They lynched her, too.
他们也对她处以私刑。
In the museum exhibit, she's hanging from the neck, but in real life, they actually hanged her by her feet, set her on fire, sliced her stomach open, and pulled out her baby, which was still alive.
在博物馆的展览中，她被挂在脖子上，但在现实生活中，他们实际上是把她挂在脚边，点燃她，切开她的胃，取出她还活着的孩子。
That's what's depicted in wax.
这就是蜡所描绘的。
Then they stomped on its head.
然后他们用脚踩它的头。
The sign on the wall adds to the story that haunted me.
墙上的标牌增添了困扰我的故事。
It's also the only part that historians can't fully verify.
这也是历史学家唯一无法完全证实的部分。
It reads, "Walter White, describing the lynching of Mary Turner and her husband Hayes Turner, depicted in this scene, said that it was too horrible to describe the mob taking the time to sew two cats in Mrs. Turner's stomach and making bets as to which one would climb out first."
上面写道：“沃尔特·怀特在描述这一场景中玛丽·特纳和她的丈夫海耶斯·特纳被私刑时说，暴民花时间把两只猫缝进特纳夫人的肚子里，并打赌哪一只会先爬出来，这太可怕了。”
To the left of the Turners' bodies is a mantelpiece with souvenir jars.
特纳夫妇尸体的左边是一个壁炉架，上面放着纪念品罐。
Sometimes the lynchers would keep pieces of their victims.
有时，私刑犯会保留受害者的碎片。
In these jars were supposed to be the ears, locks of hair, and genitalia of black people, all next to a kid's baseball trophy.
这些罐子里应该放着黑人的耳朵、一绺头发和生殖器，所有这些都在一个孩子的棒球奖杯旁边。
I'm not sure why that's there except to underscore the point that these body parts are trophies, too.
我不知道为什么会出现这样的情况，只是为了强调这些身体部位也是战利品。
It's a difficult room to process.
这是一个很难处理的房间。
When I saw this at 14, some of my classmates didn't even know how to react.
当我14岁时看到这一点时，我的一些同学甚至不知道如何反应。
A few of them stoic, others awkwardly deflecting with, yo.
他们中的一些人表现得很坚忍，另一些人则尴尬地转向，哟。
I remember feeling angry because you couldn't escape it.
我记得我感到愤怒，因为你无法逃避它。
There are signs around the room that anticipate your distress.
房间周围有一些标志可以预测您的痛苦。
They say, "Identify with the victims and martyrs and never forget them.
他们说：“与受害者和烈士认同，永远不要忘记他们。
But do not get bitter or despondent over what they endured."
但不要对他们所经历的一切感到痛苦或沮丧。”
Dr. Joanne Martin founded the museum with her husband Elmer in 1983, and when I told her all the kids in my third grade were crying and freaking out and holding hands, she was fully aware that happens.
乔安妮·马丁 (Joanne Martin) 博士与她的丈夫埃尔默 (Elmer) 于 1983 年创立了这座博物馆，当我告诉她我三年级的所有孩子都在哭泣、惊慌失措、手牵着手时，她完全意识到了这种情况的发生。
In fact, it's intentional.
事实上，这是故意的。
For me, that's the point.
对我来说，这就是重点。
When they leave shaken, when they leave crying-- and that's often the reaction-- I have no problem with those tears.
当他们离开时浑身颤抖，当他们哭着离开时——这通常是他们的反应——我对这些眼泪没有任何问题。
What people are going to talk about years later is going to be our slave ship.
几年后人们谈论的将是我们的奴隶船。
And they are going to say, I never forgot your lynching exhibit.
他们会说，我永远不会忘记你的私刑展览。
And everything else, it seems like a movie, if you don't have a sense of exactly what people were fighting against.
如果你不了解人们到底在反对什么，那么其他一切都像是一部电影。
If you think that Rosa Parks, that what she did had something to do with the seat on the bus and you don't understand that that act was going to get her jailed, but it could have gotten her lynched, as well.
如果你认为罗莎·帕克斯的所作所为与公交车上的座位有关，你不明白这种行为会让她入狱，但也可能让她被处以私刑。
When Joanne and her husband founded the museum, they set out to create something they wished existed in the world, a museum that celebrated and preserved black history, created by black people for black people in a majority black city.
当乔安妮和她的丈夫创立博物馆时，他们着手创建一个他们希望世界上存在的东西，一个庆祝和保存黑人历史的博物馆，由黑人在黑人占多数的城市为黑人创建。
They were professors at historically black universities in Baltimore, Elmer at Morgan State and Joanne at Coppin.
他们是巴尔的摩历史悠久的黑人大学的教授，埃尔默是摩根州立大学的教授，乔安妮是科平大学的教授。
But they wanted to reach more than just the academic class.
但他们想要接触的不仅仅是学术阶层。
When they visited a wax museum in St. Augustine, Florida, they thought, yeah, wax figures.
当他们参观佛罗里达州圣奥古斯丁的蜡像馆时，他们想到了，是的，蜡像。
That's the way to go.
这就是要走的路。
They had money saved for a house but instead put it towards wax figures.
他们存了钱买房子，但把钱用来买蜡像。
It still wasn't enough.
这还不够。
Wax figures are absurdly expensive-- $4,500 then, but tens of thousands of dollars now.
蜡像贵得离谱——当时是 4,500 美元，但现在是数万美元。
They ended up with their first four black history figures-- Frederick Douglass, John Brown, Nat Turner, and Mary McLeod Bethune.
他们最终选出了前四位黑人历史人物——弗雷德里克·道格拉斯、约翰·布朗、纳特·特纳和玛丽·麦克劳德·白求恩。
Elmer and Joanne would tour around with their quartet of wax figures at different schools, in churches, and expos.
埃尔默和乔安妮会带着他们的四重蜡像在不同的学校、教堂和博览会上巡演。
We just would take the figures, set them up as exhibits, throw them into my Pontiac, take them back home to our two bedroom apartment.
我们只是把这些人物模型作为展品，扔进我的庞蒂亚克，然后带回我们的两居室公寓。
And so if you looked into the guest bedroom of our two bedroom apartment, you would have found Mary McLeod Bethune's head on the dresser and Frederick Douglass' parts over in a corner and so forth.
因此，如果您查看我们两居室公寓的客房，您会发现玛丽·麦克劳德·白求恩的头放在梳妆台上，弗雷德里克·道格拉斯的零件放在角落里等等。
And I just gave him an ultimatum.
我刚刚给了他最后通牒。
Mary McLeod Bethune has got to go.
玛丽·麦克劳德·白求恩必须走了。
You've got to find a place for Mary McLeod Bethune.
你必须为玛丽·麦克劳德·白求恩找到一个地方。
Dr. Martin told me they're thinking of expanding the museum and making it more child-friendly, toning down the violence.
马丁博士告诉我，他们正在考虑扩建博物馆，使其更加适合儿童，从而减少暴力。
Which surprised me.
这让我很惊讶。
It doesn't seem like her mission at all, and it would only make sense if our history were a little more child-friendly, which it definitely isn't.
这看起来根本不像她的使命，只有我们的历史对儿童更加友好一点才有意义，但事实显然不是。
The four little girls killed in the 1963 church bombing in Alabama, they were all 14 and younger.
1963年阿拉巴马州教堂爆炸案中丧生的四名小女孩均年满14岁。
The kids who marched in Birmingham's Children's Crusade were beaten and had dogs sicced on them.
参加伯明翰儿童十字军游行的孩子们遭到殴打，还被狗咬伤。
They were as young as 12.
他们年仅12岁。
And Emmett Till was 14.
埃米特·蒂尔 14 岁。
He has a memorial in the lynching room, but he wouldn't even be allowed to go down there without a chaperone.
私刑室里有他的纪念碑，但如果没有监护人，他甚至不被允许去那里。
Even though the museum upset me, I respect it.
尽管博物馆让我感到不安，但我尊重它。
It got through to me.
我明白了。
Even as an adult watching right-wing pundits discuss the greatness of America, I still think of Mary Turner and her baby.
即使作为一个成年人，看着右翼专家讨论美国的伟大，我仍然想起玛丽·特纳和她的孩子。
When I left the museum, I had the same feeling I did as a kid, like I was in on a secret about what the country was really like-- like all of America's truths were in a basement on North Avenue.
当我离开博物馆时，我有和小时候一样的感觉，就像我知道这个国家到底是什么样子的秘密——就像美国所有的真相都在北大街的地下室里。
B.A.
学士
Parker is one of the producers of our program.
帕克是我们节目的制作人之一。
Coming up, 40 questions that completely determine a small child's fate.
接下来，40个问题将完全决定一个小孩的命运。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, Suitable for Children, stories about the random stuff that kids encounter that sticks with them for the rest of their lives, for good or for bad.
今天的节目《适合儿童》讲述了孩子们遇到的随机事物的故事，这些事物无论好坏都会伴随他们一生。
We've arrived at Act Three of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第三幕了。
Act Three, The Questionnaire.
第三幕，问卷。
Of course, the stuff that most affects children is not what they see in museums or what they see on television or what toys they play with.
当然，对孩子影响最大的东西不是他们在博物馆看到的东西，或者他们在电视上看到的东西，或者他们玩的玩具。
It's the stuff they go through in their lives.
这是他们一生中经历的事情。
Over the last few years, you probably heard there's been a flood of kids who've arrived in the United States by themselves, with no adults at all.
在过去的几年里，您可能听说有大量的孩子独自来到美国，根本没有成年人陪伴。
Some of these kids are teenagers.
其中一些孩子是青少年。
Some are a lot younger.
有些人年轻得多。
How are they going to look back on that experience someday?
有一天他们会如何回顾这段经历？
What's it going to do to them?
这会对他们做什么？
The way it goes once they come to the country, if they turn themselves over to border patrol, they're put into this notoriously cold detention center called the icebox.
一旦他们来到这个国家，如果他们向边境巡逻队自首，他们就会被关进这个臭名昭著的寒冷拘留中心，称为“冰箱”。
Then they go to a temporary shelter and they start looking for their parents or relatives in the States to sponsor them.
然后他们去临时避难所，开始寻找在美国的父母或亲戚来资助他们。
If they find them, they move in with the sponsors, and a few weeks or months later, they'll get a notice to appear in immigration court.
如果他们找到了他们，他们就会搬去和担保人住在一起，几周或几个月后，他们会收到出庭通知。
So they go to immigration court and then a judge, working with a translator, tells them that they have the right to an attorney, but the government isn't going to pay for an attorney.
因此，他们去了移民法庭，然后法官与翻译一起告诉他们，他们有权聘请律师，但政府不会支付律师费用。
In other words, it's the kids' responsibility to find and pay for a lawyer or to find a pro bono lawyer.
换句话说，孩子们有责任寻找律师并付费，或者寻找无偿律师。
And organizations have sprung up to help with this, but there aren't enough lawyers to go around for all the kids.
一些组织如雨后春笋般涌现来帮助解决这个问题，但没有足够的律师来为所有的孩子提供帮助。
For about a year and a half, Valeria Luiselli observed part of this process firsthand.
在大约一年半的时间里，瓦莱里娅·路易斯利 (Valeria Luiselli) 亲眼目睹了这一过程的一部分。
This is how it starts.
事情就是这样开始的。
It's April 2015 and the boy and I are seated at one end of a long mahogany table.
那是 2015 年 4 月，我和男孩坐在一张红木长桌的一端。
He's 16 years old from Honduras.
他今年 16 岁，来自洪都拉斯。
I ask him, why did you come to the United States?
我问他，你为什么来美国？
It's the first question I ask all of the children in immigration court.
这是我在移民法庭问所有孩子的第一个问题。
My task there is a simple one.
我的任务很简单。
I interview children the US government is trying to deport.
我采访了美国政府试图驱逐的儿童。
I ask questions following a questionnaire, and the child answers them.
我根据问卷提出问题，然后孩子回答。
I translate their stories from Spanish into English.
我将他们的故事从西班牙语翻译成英语。
The questionnaire was put together by a coalition of lawyers to help them figure out how to build a case.
该调查问卷是由律师联盟制作的，旨在帮助他们弄清楚如何立案。
A case for the child to stay in the country.
孩子留在国内的情况。
I'm not a lawyer.
我不是律师。
I'm just a volunteer.
我只是一名志愿者。
I started doing this kind of work when an immigration lawyer mentioned to me that the courts needed interpreters.
当一位移民律师向我提到法庭需要口译员时，我开始从事此类工作。
She was actually my own immigration lawyer.
她实际上是我自己的移民律师。
I'm from Mexico.
我来自墨西哥。
And at the time, I was waiting for my green card to be either granted or denied.
当时，我正在等待我的绿卡被批准或被拒绝。
The green card questionnaire is nothing like the intake questionnaire for unaccompanied minors.
绿卡调查问卷与无人陪伴未成年人的入学调查问卷完全不同。
When you apply for a green card, you have to answer things like, do you intend to practice polygamy?
当您申请绿卡时，您必须回答诸如以下问题：您打算实行一夫多妻制吗？
And are you a member of the Communist Party?
你是共产党员吗？
There's something almost innocent in the green card application's visions of the future and its possible threats.
绿卡申请对未来的愿景及其可能的威胁几乎是无辜的。
The intake questionnaire for undocumented children, on the other hand, reveals a colder, more cynical and brutal reality.
另一方面，针对无证儿童的入学调查问卷却揭示了更冷酷、更愤世嫉俗和残酷的现实。
As you make your way down its 40 questions, it's impossible not to feel that the world has become a more [BLEEP] up place than anyone could have ever imagined.
当您完成 40 个问题时，您不可能不感觉到这个世界已经变得比任何人想象的更加[哔]起来。
The first two questions at the top of the questionnaire are, where is the child's mother?
问卷顶部的前两个问题是，孩子的母亲在哪里？
Where is the child's father?
孩子的父亲在哪里？
The spaces after these questions often remain blank.
这些问题后面的空格通常保持空白。
All the children I interview come without their fathers and without their mothers, and many of them don't even know where their parents are.
我采访的所有孩子都没有父亲、没有母亲，很多人甚至不知道自己的父母在哪里。
Question 2, when did you enter the United States?
问题2、您什么时候进入美国的？
Most children don't know the exact date.
大多数孩子不知道确切的日期。
They smile and say, last year, or a few months ago, or simply, I don't know.
他们微笑着说，去年，或者几个月前，或者干脆，我不知道。
3 and 4, what countries did you pass through?
3、4，你途经了哪些国家？
How did you travel here?
你是怎么来到这里的？
To the first question, almost everyone immediately answers Mexico, and some also list Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras.
对于第一个问题，几乎所有人立即回答墨西哥，有的还列出了危地马拉、萨尔瓦多、洪都拉斯。
To the second question, with pride and horror, many say, I came on La Bestia, which literally means The Beast and refers to the freight trains that cross Mexico, on top of which many of these children have ridden.
对于第二个问题，许多人带着自豪和恐惧说，我来到了 La Bestia，字面意思是野兽，指的是穿越墨西哥的货运列车，许多孩子都乘坐过这些列车。
Thousands of people have died or been gravely injured aboard La Bestia, either because of its derailments or by falling off during the night, or by falling into the hands of policemen, thieves, and narcos.
La Bestia 号上已有数千人死亡或重伤，原因要么是出轨，要么是夜间坠落，要么是落入警察、小偷和毒枭手中。
But people continue to take the risk because there's no other route to take if you cannot pay.
但人们继续冒险，因为如果你付不起钱，就别无选择。
The room where I ask these questions is in a foreboding building at 26 Federal Plaza in downtown Manhattan.
我提出这些问题的房间位于曼哈顿市中心联邦广场 26 号的一座不祥的建筑内。
Inside, the building branches into hallways, offices, courtrooms, and waiting rooms.
大楼内部分为走廊、办公室、法庭和候诊室。
There are few signs and few people you can ask for assistance or directions, so it's easy to get lost.
路标很少，可以寻求帮助或指路的人也很少，所以很容易迷路。
The screening room on the 12th floor has two large mahogany tables at which the children, lawyers, and interpreter sit for the interviews.
12楼的放映室有两张大红木桌子，孩子们、律师和翻译坐在上面接受采访。
Crayons and pads of paper are set out at the ends of the tables to entertain the younger kids.
蜡笔和便签纸放在桌子的两端，供年幼的孩子玩耍。
I have no control over the type of legal assistance the child will receive.
我无法控制孩子将获得的法律援助类型。
I just listen to their stories in Spanish and note their answers in English.
我只是用西班牙语听他们的故事，并用英语记下他们的答案。
It's important to record even the most minor details from each story, because a good lawyer can use them to strengthen a case in ways it might not have been evident to an interpreter.
记录每个故事中最微小的细节也很重要，因为优秀的律师可以利用它们以口译员可能不明显的方式强化案件。
She swam across the river.
她游过河。
She comes from San Pedro Sula.
她来自圣佩德罗苏拉。
She comes from Tegucigalpa.
她来自特古西加尔巴。
She comes from Guatemala City.
她来自危地马拉城。
He has not ever met his father.
他从未见过他的父亲。
Yes, she has met her mother, but she doesn't remember the last time she saw her.
是的，她见过她的母亲，但她不记得上次见到她是什么时候。
He doesn't know if she abandoned him.
他不知道她是否抛弃了他。
No, my father didn't send money at all.
不，我父亲根本没有寄钱。
I worked in the fields.
我在田里干过活。
MS-13 shot my sister.
MS-13 射杀了我妹妹。
She died.
她死了。
Yes, my uncle hit me often.
是的，我叔叔经常打我。
No, my grandmother never hit us.
不，我祖母从来没有打过我们。
If the child answers the questionnaire correctly, he or she is more likely to have a strong case, which will increase the child's chances of being placed with a pro bono attorney.
如果孩子正确回答了调查问卷，他或她更有可能提出强有力的案件，这将增加孩子获得无偿律师帮助的机会。
An answer is correct if it provides an attorney with a legal argument for the child to stay in the US.
如果答案为律师提供了孩子留在美国的法律依据，那么答案就是正确的。
So in the warped world of immigration, a correct answer is when, for example, a girl reveals that her father is an alcoholic who physically or sexually abused her, or when a boy reports that he was beaten repeatedly by gang members and has the scars to prove it.
因此，在扭曲的移民世界中，正确的答案是，例如，一个女孩透露她的父亲是一个酒鬼，对她进行身体或性虐待，或者当一个男孩报告说他多次被帮派成员殴打并有伤疤证明这一点时。
Answers like that may open doors to potential immigration relief and eventually legal status in the US.
这样的答案可能会为潜在的移民救济以及最终在美国的合法地位打开大门。
But when children don't have enough battle wounds to show, they may not have any way to successfully defend their case and will most likely be removed back to their home country.
但是，当孩子们没有足够的战斗创伤来展示时，他们可能无法成功地为自己的案件辩护，并且很可能会被遣返回国。
The little girls are five and seven years old, and they're from a small village in Guatemala.
这两个小女孩分别五岁和七岁，来自危地马拉的一个小村庄。
We sit together at the mahogany table, and their mother observes from one of the benches in the back.
我们一起坐在红木桌子旁，他们的母亲坐在后面的一张长凳上观察。
The younger girl concentrates on her coloring book, a crayon in her right hand.
小女孩专注于她的涂色本，右手拿着蜡笔。
The older one has her hands crossed as an adult might.
年长的像成年人一样双手交叉。
Spanish is their second language.
西班牙语是他们的第二语言。
She's a little shy, but tries to be clear and precise in her answers.
她有点害羞，但尽力回答得清晰准确。
Why did you come to the United States?
你为什么来美国？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Where did you cross the border?
你在哪里越过边境？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Texas?
德克萨斯州？
Arizona?
亚利桑那？
Yes.
是的。
Texas, Arizona.
德克萨斯州、亚利桑那州。
How did you travel here?
你是怎么来到这里的？
A man brought us.
一个男人带我们来的。
A coyote?
土狼？
No, a man.
不，是一个男人。
When the younger girl turned two, their mother left them under their grandmother's care.
当小女孩两岁时，母亲把她们交给祖母照顾。
She crossed two national borders without documents and settled in Long Island, where she had a cousin.
她在没有证件的情况下跨越了两个国家的边界，定居在长岛，在那里她有一个表弟。
The girls talk to their mother on the telephone, hearing stories about snow falling and traffic jams, and later, about their mother's new husband and their new baby brother.
女孩们通过电话与母亲交谈，听到降雪和交通堵塞的故事，后来又听到母亲的新丈夫和刚出生的弟弟的故事。
Four years went by.
四年过去了。
One day, their grandmother told them that, in a few days, a man was going to come for them, a man who would help them get back to their mother.
有一天，他们的祖母告诉他们，几天后，会有一个男人来找他们，一个会帮助他们回到母亲身边的男人。
She told them that it would be a long trip, but that he would keep them safe.
她告诉他们，这将是一次长途旅行，但他会保证他们的安全。
The day before the girls left, their grandmother sewed a 10-digit telephone number on the collars of their dresses.
女孩们离开的前一天，她们的祖母在她们衣服的领子上缝了一个10位数字的电话号码。
She told them they should never take these dresses off, not even to sleep, and as soon as they reached America and met the first American policeman, they should show the inside of the dress's collar to him.
她告诉他们永远不应该脱掉这些衣服，即使是睡觉也不应该，一旦他们到达美国并遇到了第一位美国警察，他们就应该向他展示衣服领子的内部。
He would then dial the number and let them speak to their mother.
然后他会拨打这个号码，让他们和母亲通话。
The rest would follow.
其余的将随之而来。
The rest did follow.
其余的也随之而来。
They made it to the border and were detained in the icebox.
他们到达边境并被拘留在冰箱里。
They said they were colder in there than they had ever been.
他们说那里比以前更冷。
After that, they went to a shelter.
之后，他们去了避难所。
And a few weeks later, they were put on a plane and flown to JFK, where their mother, baby brother, and stepfather were waiting for them.
几周后，他们被送上飞机飞往肯尼迪机场，他们的母亲、弟弟和继父正在那里等待他们。
Some weeks later, they received the notice to appear.
几周后，他们收到了出庭通知。
These girls are so young that, in addition to translating from one language to another, I need to reconfigure the questions, shift them from the language of adults to the language of children.
这些女孩太小了，除了从一种语言翻译成另一种语言之外，我还需要重新配置问题，将它们从成人的语言转变为儿童的语言。
27, 28, 29, did you work in your home country?
27、28、29，您在祖国工作过吗？
What sort of work did you do?
你做了什么类型的工作？
How many hours did you work each day?
您每天工作多少小时？
I reword, interpret.
我重写、解释。
What kinds of things did you do with your grandmother?
你和你的祖母做过哪些事情？
We played.
我们玩了。
But besides playing?
但除了玩之外呢？
Nothing.
没有什么。
Did you work?
你工作了吗？
Yes.
是的。
What did you do?
你做了什么？
I don't remember.
我不记得了。
We go on to questions 30 31, 32, and 33.
我们继续讨论问题 30、31、32 和 33。
The older girl answers them while the little one undresses a crayon and scratches its trunk with her fingernail.
大女孩回答他们，小女孩脱下蜡笔的衣服，用指甲刮擦它的树干。
Did you ever get in trouble at home when you lived in your home country?
您在祖国生活的时候，家里有遇到过麻烦吗？
No. Were you punished if you did something wrong?
没有。如果你做错事会受到惩罚吗？
No.
不。
How often were you punished?
你多久受到一次惩罚？
Never.
绝不。
Did you or anyone in your family have an illness that required special attention?
您或您的家人是否患有需要特别注意的疾病？
What?
什么？
The girl's answers aren't really working.
女孩的回答根本不起作用。
They aren't working in their favor, that is.
也就是说，他们并没有做出对自己有利的事情。
What I need to hear, though I don't want to hear it, was that they had been doing hard labor, labor that put them in danger, that they were being exploited, abused, punished.
我需要听到的是，尽管我不想听到，但他们一直在从事艰苦的劳动，这些劳动使他们处于危险之中，他们受到剥削、虐待和惩罚。
If their answers don't align with what the law considers reason enough for the right to stay, the only possible ending to their story is going to be a deportation order.
如果他们的答案与法律认为的居留权不符，那么他们的故事唯一可能的结局就是驱逐令。
The girls are so young that, even if they had a story that secured legal intervention in their favor, they didn't know the words necessary to tell it.
这些女孩太年轻了，即使她们的故事能够获得对她们有利的法律干预，她们也不知道需要用什么语言来讲述它。
For children of that age, telling a story in a second language translated to a third, a round and convincing story that successfully inserts them into legal proceedings working up to their defense, is practically impossible.
对于那个年龄段的孩子来说，用第二语言讲一个翻译成第三语言的故事，一个圆润而令人信服的故事，成功地将他们带入法律诉讼程序，为他们辩护，实际上是不可能的。
It's going to be very hard with the answers I'm getting to even find them a lawyer willing to take their case.
根据我得到的答案，我很难找到愿意接手他们案件的律师。
The first person I ever asked these questions to was a boy from Honduras, age 16.
我问的第一个人是一个来自洪都拉斯的 16 岁男孩。
Let's call him Manu.
我们就叫他马努吧。
Why did you come to the United States, I begin.
我开始说你为什么来美国。
He says nothing and looks at me and shrugs a little.
他什么也没说，看着我，耸了耸肩。
I reassure him.
我安慰他。
I'm no policewoman.
我不是女警察。
I'm no official anyone.
我不是任何官方人士。
I'm not even a lawyer.
我什至不是律师。
I'm also not a gringa, you know.
你知道，我也不是外国佬。
In fact, I can't help you at all.
事实上，我根本帮不了你。
So why are you here, then?
那么你为什么在这里？
I'm just here to translate for you.
我只是来给你翻译的。
And what are you?
而你又是什么？
I'm a chilanga.
我是奇兰加人。
I'm a catracho, he says.
“我是个卡特拉科人，”他说。
So we were enemies.
所以我们是敌人。
And anyway, he's right.
无论如何，他是对的。
I'm from Mexico City, and he's from Honduras.
我来自墨西哥城，他来自洪都拉斯。
Yeah, I say, but only enemies in soccer, and I suck at soccer, anyway, so you've already scored five goals against me.
是的，我说，但只是足球方面的敌人，而且我足球很烂，无论如何，所以你已经对我进了五个球。
He smiles, perhaps almost laughs.
他微笑着，也许几乎要笑了。
I haven't won his trust, but at least I have his attention.
我没有赢得他的信任，但至少我得到了他的关注。
We proceed slowly and hesitantly.
我们缓慢而犹豫地前进。
Although I try to convey my words neutrally, every question seems to either embarrass or annoy him.
尽管我试图中立地表达我的话，但每个问题似乎都让他尴尬或恼火。
He answers in short sentences, sometimes only silent shrugs.
他用简短的句子回答，有时只是默默地耸耸肩。
No, he had never met his father.
不，他从未见过他的父亲。
No, he did not live with his mother in his home country.
不，他没有和他的母亲一起住在他的祖国。
He had met her, yes, but she came and went as she pleased.
是的，他见过她，但她想来就来，想走就走。
She liked the streets, perhaps.
也许她喜欢街道。
He doesn't like talking about her.
他不喜欢谈论她。
He grew up with his grandmother, but she died a few months ago.
他和祖母一起长大，但她几个月前去世了。
His aunt is sitting in the back of the courtroom.
他的姨妈坐在法庭的后面。
How do you like living with your aunt?
你喜欢和你阿姨住在一起吗？
He likes her.
他喜欢她。
But even though she's family, he's never really known her.
但尽管她是家人，他却从未真正了解过她。
She had always been just a voice inside the telephone.
她一直只是电话里的一个声音。
I got to question 34, the one that often opens Pandora's box but also gives the interviewer the most valuable material for building the minor's case.
我提出了第 34 个问题，这个问题常常打开潘多拉魔盒，但也为面试官提供了构建未成年人案件最有价值的材料。
Did you have trouble with gangs or crime in your home country?
您在自己的国家遇到过帮派或犯罪问题吗？
Manu pulls a folded piece of paper from his pocket.
马努从口袋里掏出一张折叠的纸。
It's a copy of a police report he filed against gang members who waited for him outside his high school every day.
这是他针对每天在高中外等他的帮派成员提交的警方报告的副本。
He's held onto the report for years now, guarded it during his journey north like a passport or a talisman.
他多年来一直保留着这份报告，在北上途中将其当作护照或护身符一样守护着。
One day, some boys from the gang Barrio 18 waited outside school for Manu and his best friend.
有一天，Barrio 18 帮派的一些男孩在学校外面等待 Manu 和他最好的朋友。
There were too many boys for Manu to fight.
对于马努来说，男孩太多了，无法战斗。
He and his friend walked away.
他和他的朋友走开了。
The gang members followed.
团伙成员也紧随其后。
Manu and his friend started running.
马努和他的朋友开始奔跑。
They ran for a block or two until there was a gunshot.
他们跑了一两个街区，直到一声枪响。
Manu turned around, still running, and saw that his friend had fallen.
马努转身继续奔跑，发现他的朋友摔倒了。
More gunshots followed, but he carried on running.
随后又响起了枪声，但他继续奔跑。
That night, he called his aunt in New York.
那天晚上，他给纽约的姨妈打了电话。
They decided he needed to leave the country as soon as possible.
他们决定他需要尽快离开这个国家。
He didn't attend his friend's funeral, didn't leave the house until the day the coyotaje arrived at the door.
他没有参加朋友的葬礼，也没有离开家，直到郊狼来到门口的那天。
Question 35.
问题 35.
Any problems with the government in your home country?
您所在国家/地区的政府有什么问题吗？
If so, what happened?
如果是这样，发生了什么？
My government?
我的政府？
Write this down in your notebook.
把这个记在你的笔记本上。
They don't do [BLEEP] for anybody like me.
他们不会为像我这样的人做[BLEEP]。
That's the problem.
这就是问题所在。
The next time I see Manu some months later, we're in a large room on floor 20-something of a corporate building next to South Ferry.
几个月后，我下次见到 Manu 时，我们是在南渡口旁边一栋企业大楼 20 楼左右的一个大房间里。
We can see Staten Island from the window and, if we stretch our necks, the Statue of Liberty.
从窗户我们可以看到斯塔滕岛，如果我们伸长脖子，还可以看到自由女神像。
An organization has found him pro bono lawyers in one of the most powerful and expensive corporate firms in the city.
一个组织为他找到了该市最强大、最昂贵的公司之一的无偿律师。
Thanks to the material evidence Manu has of his statements-- the folded slip of paper-- he has a strong case.
由于马努的陈述有物证——折叠的纸条——他的案子很有说服力。
Stronger than usual, at least.
至少比平时强。
They've called me in to continue translating for him.
他们叫我继续为他翻译。
We sit around a large, black, lacquered table.
我们围坐在一张黑色漆面大桌子旁。
Manu, his aunt, three lawyers who speak only English, and me.
马努、他的姨妈、三名只会说英语的律师和我。
We are offered coffee and snacks.
我们提供咖啡和小吃。
Manu's aunt and I say yes to coffee.
我和马努的阿姨都同意喝咖啡。
Manu says he'll have some of everything if it's free.
马努说，如果免费的话，他会得到一些。
I translate this into, just a cookie, please.
我把它翻译成“一块饼干”。
Thanks.
谢谢。
That's very kind of you.
谢谢您的好意。
Everything runs smoothly until the lawyers ask if Manu is still enrolled in school.
一切都很顺利，直到律师询问马努是否仍在学校就读。
He is, he says.
他说，他是。
At Hempstead High School on Long Island, but he wants to leave as soon as possible.
在长岛的亨普斯特德高中，但他想尽快离开。
Why, they want to know.
为什么，他们想知道。
They remind him that, if he wants to be considered for any type of immigration relief, he has to be enrolled in school.
他们提醒他，如果他想获得任何类型的移民救济，他必须上学。
Hempstead High School, he says, is a hub for MS-13 and Barrio 18.
他说，亨普斯特德高中是 MS-13 和 Barrio 18 的中心。
Barrio 18 knocked two teeth out of his mouth.
Barrio 18 把他嘴里的两颗牙齿打掉了。
He's missing two on the top row.
他在顶排少了两个。
MS-13 boys saved him from losing the rest of them.
MS-13 男孩救了他，让他免于失去其他人。
Suddenly, perhaps, we all suspect Manu and want to ask questions 36 and 37.
突然间，也许我们都怀疑Manu并想问问题36和37。
Have you ever been a member of a gang?
你曾经加入过帮派吗？
Any tattoos?
有纹身吗？
No, he has no tattoos.
不，他没有纹身。
And no, he's never been part of any gang.
不，他从未加入过任何帮派。
MS-13 in Hempstead wants him, but he's not going to fall for it.
亨普斯特德的 MS-13 想要他，但他不会上当。
Hundreds of thousands of kids have made the journey north.
成千上万的孩子已经踏上北方之旅。
Tens of thousands have made it to the border, thousands to New York.
数万人已抵达边境，数千人抵达纽约。
Why did you come to the United States, we ask.
我们问你为什么来美国。
These children might ask a similar question.
这些孩子可能会问类似的问题。
Why did we risk our lives to come to this country, where we find at school, in our new neighborhoods, the very things we are running from?
为什么我们冒着生命危险来到这个国家，在学校、新社区里，我们发现的正是我们正在逃避的东西？
Hempstead is a [BLEEP] hole full of pandilleros, Manu says, full of gang members, just like Tegucigalpa.
马努说，亨普斯特德是一个充满了妓女的[BLEEP]洞，充满了帮派成员，就像特古西加尔巴一样。
Valeria Luiselli.
瓦莱里娅·路易塞利。
This is an excerpt from her book Tell Me How It Ends.
这是她的书《告诉我它是如何结束的》的摘录。
She asked that I mention here on the radio that MS-13 and Barrio 18 are gangs that did not originate in Central America or in Mexico.
她要求我在广播中提及 MS-13 和 Barrio 18 是并非起源于中美洲或墨西哥的帮派。
They're originally from Los Angeles.
他们最初来自洛杉矶。
Act Four, Rocket Boy.
第四幕，火箭男孩。
So we close our show today with somebody who was just a teenager when the army ordered him to report to Camp Desert Rock, which was next to the Atomic Energy Commission's bomb testing range in Nevada in 1955 to do something he was totally unprepared for, though I think maybe nobody could be prepared for.
因此，今天我们以一个十几岁的人结束我们的节目，当时军队命令他去沙漠岩营地报到，该营地位于 1955 年内华达州原子能委员会的炸弹试验场旁边，要做一些他完全没有准备好的事情，尽管我认为也许没有人能做好准备。
He was 19.
他19岁。
His name is Paul Zimmer.
他的名字叫保罗·齐默。
He grew up to be a writer and a poet.
他长大后成为一名作家和诗人。
He wrote this about what happened there.
他写下了那里发生的事情。
Paul was under the weather this week, so his account was read for us by an actor, John Conlee.
保罗这周身体不舒服，所以他的叙述是由演员约翰·康利为我们朗读的。
I'd paid attention.
我已经注意了。
I'd seen the newsreels of Hiroshima, but just watching atomic bombs go off, I thought it was going to be kind of cool.
我看过广岛的新闻片，但只是看着原子弹爆炸，我就觉得这会很酷。
I thought the story would be a way to interest girls.
我认为这个故事会是吸引女孩们兴趣的一种方式。
They didn't tell us anything about what was going to happen, no initiation, no training.
他们没有告诉我们任何关于将要发生的事情，没有启蒙，没有培训。
And the first time I had no idea what to expect.
第一次我不知道会发生什么。
We travel by convoy and buses in the middle of the night to assemble at the site.
我们半夜乘坐车队和巴士前往现场集合。
We shuffled around in the cold, chain-smoking, till we were ordered into the trenches.
我们在寒冷中拖着脚步，一根接一根地抽烟，直到被命令进入战壕。
The trenches were long, thin slits in the desert earth, only wide enough for us to line up single file.
战壕是沙漠土地上又长又细的缝隙，宽度只够我们排成一列。
We wore our steel helmets but were not issued earplugs, eye covers, or any protective clothing.
我们戴着钢盔，但没有配发耳塞、眼罩或任何防护服。
Then they told us to get down.
然后他们叫我们下去。
I did not become fearful until the countdown was broadcast over the loudspeakers.
直到扩音器里传来倒计时的声音，我才变得害怕。
And I only became terrified when I saw the flash, bright enough where, even with my eyes closed, I could see the bones of my hands over my eyes.
当我看到闪光灯时，我才感到害怕，它足够亮，即使我闭上眼睛，我也能看到我眼睛上方的手骨。
A shock wave crashed over the trench top and we were ordered to stand up and look.
一股冲击波冲过战壕顶部，我们被命令站起来查看。
We did and saw the mushroom cloud glowing purple and changing colors, rising, rising up.
我们照做了，看到蘑菇云发出紫色的光，颜色不断变化，不断升起、升起。
I saw eight atomic blasts in total all on different days.
我在不同的日子里总共目睹了八次原子弹爆炸。
Some devices dropped from airplanes.
一些设备从飞机上掉落。
And some detonated from towers.
还有一些是从塔楼引爆的。
There was an aerial burst and an underground blast, as well.
空中发生爆炸，地下也发生爆炸。
Sometimes during the shock wave, the trench sides caved in and buried us alive, so we had to claw our way out from our own graves.
有时，在冲击波的作用下，壕沟的两侧会塌陷，把我们活埋，所以我们不得不从自己的坟墓里爬出来。
Some poor doggies in Jeeps were assigned to drive forward with Geiger counters and radio transmitters.
吉普车里的一些可怜的小狗被分配带着盖革计数器和无线电发射器向前行驶。
When clearance was radioed back, we were ordered to walk forward into the blast area to bear witness.
当无线电传回许可后，我们被命令向前走到爆炸区域作证。
Far as I could tell, bearing witness was the entire reason we were there.
据我所知，见证是我们来到那里的全部原因。
The largest bomb I witnessed was called Turk.
我亲眼目睹的最大的炸弹叫做“土耳其”。
It was almost three times the size of the Hiroshima bomb.
它的大小几乎是广岛原子弹的三倍。
It was dropped from a 500-foot tower, and our trenches were approximately 2 and 1/2 miles from ground zero.
它是从 500 英尺高的塔上投下的，我们的战壕距归零地大约 2又 1/2 英里。
The blast yield was bigger than expected so the brass ordered us to retreat to the buses, where we swept each other off with kitchen brooms and hustled into our seats.
爆炸威力比预期的要大，所以军官命令我们撤退到公共汽车上，我们用厨房扫帚互相扫倒对方，然后挤到座位上。
The next morning, some of us were bussed back into the area in our fatigues and ordered to walk forward to bear witness.
第二天早上，我们中的一些人穿着迷彩服被巴士送回该地区，并被命令向前走去作证。
There was still a heavy smell of ozone in the air.
空气中仍然弥漫着浓重的臭氧味。
Vegetation shredded, scorched, torn out by the roots, and small animals and birds were scattered, dead, crippled, and blind, lurching about, some still trying to find a place to hide.
植被被撕碎、烧焦、连根拔起，小动物和鸟类散落一地、死亡、残废、失明，摇摇晃晃，有些还在寻找藏身之所。
We walked past crumpled vehicles and artillery pieces that had been placed in the open.
我们走过露天放置的皱巴巴的车辆和大炮。
Mannequins staked out, khakis torn apart and melted grotesquely.
人体模型矗立在那里，卡其裤被撕裂并融化得奇形怪状。
Caged Cheshire pigs that had been dressed in specially-fitting army uniforms were dead or mangled, the latter still shrieking their last.
关在笼子里、穿着特制军装的柴郡猪要么死了，要么被肢解，后者仍在尖叫着最后的声音。
Herds of blasted sheep and cows were mangled together, dead or moaning.
成群的被炸死的羊和牛被肢解在一起，要么死亡，要么呻吟。
Staged houses and barns were splintered and scattered.
舞台上的房屋和谷仓支离破碎。
We never had to write reports, nor did anyone ask us what we saw because it turned out they were looking at us.
我们从来不需要写报告，也没有人问我们看到了什么，因为事实证明他们正在看着我们。
They wanted to see how young men reacted to an atomic blast.
他们想看看年轻人对原子爆炸有何反应。
Apparently, that's all they wanted to do.
显然，这就是他们想做的。
I was not selected because I was special.
我没有被选中是因为我很特别。
I had no need for qualifications, aside from being a 19-year-old boy.
我不需要任何资格，只要我是一个 19 岁的男孩。
Over the years of America's open-air atomic bomb testing in Nevada, a few thousand army men participated.
多年来，美国在内华达州进行了露天原子弹试验，有数千名军人参加。
It does not matter anymore that only feeble attempts were made by the government to find out how these experiences affected us.
政府只是做出了微弱的尝试来了解这些经历如何影响我们，但这已经不再重要了。
Lately, I've begun to realize that I am one of the last people living in America to have actually experienced close-up explosions of atomic bombs.
最近，我开始意识到我是生活在美国的最后一批近距离经历过原子弹爆炸的人之一。
We're all dying now, and most of us are already dead.
我们现在都快死了，而且我们大多数人已经死了。
I'm not aware of anyone's health being affected by the blasts, but some years ago I did check with the Veterans Administration about the possible radiation dosage I received during my participation.
我不知道是否有人的健康受到爆炸的影响，但几年前，我确实向退伍军人管理局核实了我在参与期间可能受到的辐射剂量。
I was informed that the radiation film badge that I wore throughout my four months at Desert Rock had been burned up in a government warehouse records fire in St. Louis some decades ago.
我被告知，我在沙漠岩四个月里佩戴的防辐射胶片徽章已在几十年前圣路易斯的政府仓库记录火灾中被烧毁。
Now in my late years, when I can conjure that brief, surreal period of my youth, I try in vain to make some sense of it.
现在，在我晚年的时候，当我能够回忆起我青春时期那段短暂的、超现实的时光时，我徒劳地尝试去理解它。
In some ways, it has become my responsibility to at least recollect and tell how that great flash and blast permanently reached into my very young mind and heart, how those enormous sounds deadened my ears and still ring in them to this day, how the crush of shock waves sometimes buried us alive in our trenches.
在某些方面，我有责任至少回忆并讲述那场巨大的闪光和爆炸是如何永久地进入我幼小的心灵和心灵，那些巨大的声音如何使我的耳朵麻木，直到今天仍然在耳边回响，冲击波的冲击力如何有时将我们活埋在战壕里。
I feel it my duty to tell the reckless absurdity of it all.
我觉得我有责任讲述这一切的鲁莽荒谬。
In August, our president threatened to unleash fire and fury like the world has never seen.
八月，我们的总统威胁要释放世界前所未见的火焰和愤怒。
We keep threatening to unleash these bombs, and so I suspect that one day we will.
我们一直威胁要释放这些炸弹，所以我怀疑有一天我们会的。
Most of us have forgotten what we are capable of.
我们大多数人都忘记了自己的能力。
I have not.
我没有。
John Conlee, reading an essay by Paul Zimmer.
约翰·康利（John Conlee）正在阅读保罗·齐默（Paul Zimmer）的文章。
A version of this essay was first published in The Georgia Review.
本文的一个版本首次发表在《乔治亚评论》上。
Credits Ira Glass Our program was produced today by Jonathan Menjivar.
图片来源 Ira Glass 今天我们的节目由 Jonathan Menjivar 制作。
People who put our show together include Susan Burton, Ben Calhoun, Zoe Chace, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Whitney Dangerfield, Neil Drumming, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, Mariya Karimjee, David Kestenbaum, Miki Meek, B.A.
制作我们节目的人员包括 Susan Burton、Ben Calhoun、Zoe Chace、Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Whitney Dangerfield、Neil Drumming、Stephanie Foo、Chana Joffe-Walt、Mariya Karimjee、David Kestenbaum、Miki Meek、B.A.
Parker, Robyn Semien, Lily Sullivan, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Nancy Updike, and Diane Wu.
帕克、罗宾·塞米恩、莉莉·沙利文、克里斯托弗·斯韦塔拉、马特·蒂尔尼、南希·厄普代克和黛安·吴。
Our senior producer is Brian Reed.
我们的高级制片人是布莱恩·里德。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢该计划的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, I got a traffic ticket and I said to Torey, hey, gringa, can you represent me in court?
你知道，我收到了一张交通罚单，我对托里说，嘿，外国佬，你能在法庭上代表我吗？
I'm not even a lawyer.
我什至不是律师。
I'm also not a gringa, you know.
你知道，我也不是外国佬。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。