622: Who You Gonna Call? - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #622 | August 4, 2017 622: Who You Gonna Call?
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 622 集 | 2017 年 8 月 4 日 622：你要给谁打电话？
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Sean Cole From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
序言 Sean Cole 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这就是《美国生活》。
[DIALING] Ira Glass is off this week.
[拨号] Ira Glass 本周休假。
I'm Sean Cole.
我是肖恩·科尔。
Yo, Sean!
哟，肖恩！
This is your mom.
这是你的妈妈。
I wasn't home.
我不在家。
I'm just going to say up front that today's show deals with a device invented more than a century ago to facilitate real time voice-to-voice interaction.
我只想先说一下，今天的节目涉及一个多世纪前发明的设备，用于促进实时语音交互。
The kids don't use it much for that purpose anymore, but in all the stories you're going to hear, the phone's primary purpose is as a phone.
孩子们不再经常将其用于此目的，但在您将听到的所有故事中，手机的主要用途是作为电话。
About four or five years ago, I started saving all my mom's voicemails, thinking, she's not going to be around forever.
大约四五年前，我开始保存妈妈所有的语音邮件，心想，她不会永远在身边。
I'm going to want to hear her voice when she's gone.
当她离开后，我想听听她的声音。
Though somehow I didn't extend that thought to, "I could hear her voice right now if I picked up the phone." She had a talent for the form.
但不知怎的，我并没有把这个想法延伸到“如果我拿起电话，我现在就能听到她的声音。”她在形式方面有天赋。
With some of them, it almost feels like I'm talking to her, except she's playing both parts.
对于其中一些人来说，感觉就像是我在和她说话，只不过她同时扮演了两个角色。
What time is it?
现在是几奌？
Oh, it's 6:52.
哦，现在是 6 点 52 分。
Yeah, it's later than I thought.
是的，比我想象的要晚。
I can't believe it's still light out.
我不敢相信天还亮着。
Decided to go to the Royal for supper tonight.
决定今晚去皇家吃晚饭。
So that's what we did.
这就是我们所做的。
We went early, and we are back early.
我们去得早，回来得也早。
So I don't know what you're doing.
所以我不知道你在做什么。
So this is me, c'est moi.
这就是我，这就是我。
I'm here.
我在这儿。
Right.
正确的。
Yo aqui.
哟阿基。
C'est moi.
这就是我。
It's me in French.
法语是我。
Sometimes there's not much more than that.
有时除此之外就没有更多了。
C'est moi.
这就是我。
Love you much.
非常爱你。
Talk to you soon.
很快就和你谈谈。
Bye.
再见。
This one's even shorter.
这个更短。
Pat C'est moi.
Pat C'est moi。
Bye.
再见。
But of course all the messages boil down to her saying, in one creative way or another, "Please call me back." Sometimes she was a lot more direct about it.
但当然，所有的信息都归结为她以一种创造性的方式说：“请给我回电话。”有时她对此更直接。
Don't forget to call your mother!
别忘了给你妈妈打电话！
Goodbye!
再见！
Actually, here's the one that I always tell people about when I'm talking about her messages.
事实上，这是我在谈论她的信息时总是告诉人们的一个。
It's like she sort of circles and then goes in for the kill.
就像她绕了一圈然后就开始杀人一样。
I heard you on the radio on Sunday, and I knew it was you, because I could recognize your voice, even though it's been a long time since I've heard it on the phone.
周日我在广播中听到了你的声音，我知道是你，因为我能认出你的声音，尽管我已经很久没有在电话里听到过你的声音了。
So anyway, I love you lots and lots.
所以无论如何，我非常非常爱你。
Call me when you think of it, if you ever do.
当你想到这件事的时候就给我打电话，如果你有的话。
Love you.
爱你。
Bye.
再见。
My mom, her name was Pat.
我的妈妈，她的名字叫帕特。
She died on September 28, 2015, At 4:22 in the morning.
她于2015年9月28日凌晨4点22分去世。
It was relatively sudden and totally unexpected.
这是相对突然且完全出乎意料的。
And as much as I thought I was preparing myself for that moment, I wasn't prepared.
尽管我以为我已经为那一刻做好了准备，但我并没有准备好。
It's true, I didn't call enough.
确实如此，我打电话还不够。
But she was still the first person I thought to call when something huge happened.
但当发生重大事件时，她仍然是我第一个想到打电话的人。
Good or bad.
好或坏。
I loved talking to her.
我喜欢和她说话。
She was funny, as you can tell.
正如你所知，她很有趣。
And smart.
而且很聪明。
She wrote technical manuals in the early days of personal computing.
她在个人计算的早期撰写技术手册。
Later in life, she lugged a lot of pro-grade camera equipment around the world, taking pictures.
在后来的生活中，她拖着很多专业级的相机设备到世界各地拍照。
And yet she had a hard time figuring out her smartphone.
然而她却很难弄清楚她的智能手机。
The last recording I have from her saved on my phone, it was a pocket dial.
我保存在手机上的她的最后一段录音是一个袖珍拨号盘。
[POCKET DIALING] This goes on for three minutes.
[袖珍拨号] 此过程持续三分钟。
No, I didn't make it this morning.
不，我今天早上没来得及。
I figured that I was pretty busy.
我觉得我很忙。
After mom died, I started calling home a lot more to talk to my stepdad, Ed Hacker.
妈妈去世后，我开始经常打电话回家与我的继父艾德·哈克交谈。
He and I never really had a phone relationship when my mother was alive.
当我母亲在世时，他和我从未真正建立过电话关系。
It was more the classic thing of, "You wanna say hi to Ed?" And then we'd verbally clap each other on the back, and then back to mom.
这更经典，“你想跟艾德打个招呼吗？”然后我们会口头拍拍对方的背，然后回到妈妈身边。
These days, it's not weird for us to spend almost two hours on the phone together.
如今，我们在一起打电话近两个小时并不奇怪。
You are the most active octogenarian on Twitter that I know about.
据我所知，你是 Twitter 上最活跃的八十多岁老人。
Well, I try to send out about six or seven tweets.
好吧，我尝试发送大约六到七条推文。
I think of how annoyed my mom would be if she knew this, but I'm now performing the exact telephone behavior she wanted from me when she was around, except now with Ed.
我想到如果我妈妈知道了这一点，她会多么恼火，但我现在正在执行她在我身边时想要我做的一模一样的电话行为，除了现在和艾德在一起。
I call about once a week on average.
我平均每周打电话一次。
And it's always me initiating the calls now.
现在总是我主动打电话。
At first, of course, it was mainly to make sure he was holding up OK, and to make sure I was holding up OK.
当然，一开始主要是为了确保他能坚持下去，并确保我能坚持下去。
But even now, when I miss a week, it eats at me, like I'm thinking, "Gotta call Ed, gotta call Ed." It's like an injustice that he's getting this treatment and not her, and I keep trying to square it somehow.
但即使是现在，当我缺席一周时，它仍然困扰着我，就像我在想，“必须给埃德打电话，必须给埃德打电话。”他得到了这样的待遇，而不是她，这就像一种不公平，我一直试图以某种方式弥补它。
But when I put this to Ed, he basically said it's really not that big a mystery.
但当我把这个告诉艾德时，他基本上说这并不是什么大谜团。
Kind of obvious that if one parent dies, you realize that the other one may not be that far off, that he will go too, or she.
很明显，如果父母之一去世，你就会意识到另一位父母可能离你不远，他或她也会去世。
So you know, the scarcity, just like in economics, makes the value go up.
所以你知道，就像经济学一样，稀缺性会导致价值上涨。
I never thought of this in economic terms before.
我以前从未从经济角度考虑过这个问题。
Well, it's true of many things.
嗯，很多事情都是如此。
If the population is very low--
如果人口很少的话——
Ed's 87.
艾德87岁。
He taught philosophy and logic at a university in Boston for a lot of years.
他在波士顿的一所大学教授哲学和逻辑学多年。
Which is fitting, because Ed is very logical and philosophical.
这很合适，因为埃德非常有逻辑性和哲学性。
He's always quoting one or another great thinker.
他总是引用一位或另一位伟大思想家的名言。
For fun, he does math.
为了好玩，他做数学。
He and my mom got together when I was six.
我六岁时他和我妈妈在一起了。
He moved in when I was 11.
我11岁的时候他就搬进来了。
And I think he's right that I call because I'm more aware than ever that one day he won't be on the other end of the phone, but it's more than that too.
我认为我打电话给他是对的，因为我比以往任何时候都更清楚有一天他不会在电话的另一端，但事情还不止于此。
Even though we have all of these other people in our family, whom we love, it got to feeling like Ed's the other one mom's death happened to, like he and I were the ones who mutually needed to talk about mom, and to hear about her.
尽管我们家里还有我们所爱的其他人，但感觉就像艾德是另一个母亲的去世所发生的那样，就像他和我是那些共同需要谈论母亲、聆听她的人一样。
I feel that, yes, I could talk to you about Pat, because you're willing to talk to her about it.
我觉得，是的，我可以和你谈论帕特，因为你愿意和她谈论这件事。
To you about it, yeah.
对你来说，是的。
Ed Hacker And it makes a big difference to me.
Ed Hacker 这对我来说意义重大。
I'm so glad to hear that.
我很高兴听到这个消息。
Ed Hacker Because you lost the same person.
艾德·哈克 因为你失去了同一个人。
Even if it's somewhat similar if somebody else has lost someone else, you know, these groups in which everyone has lost a spouse, and their memories are different.
即使有些相似，如果别人失去了另一个人，你知道，这些群体中每个人都失去了配偶，他们的记忆是不同的。
You know you never met the other person that died.
你知道你从未见过另一个死去的人。
You really don't care.
你真的不在乎。
[CHUCKLING] You care about your loss.
[咯咯笑]你关心你的损失。
You know, be honest.
你知道，说实话。
Are you on the deck now?
你现在在甲板上吗？
Ed Hacker I am.
艾德·哈克 我是。
For a long time, my mom was a third invisible person in all of these conversations.
很长一段时间，我妈妈是所有这些谈话中的第三个隐形人。
And it feels weird to say this, but in some ways, it's like I've gotten to know her better from talking to Ed.
这么说感觉很奇怪，但在某些方面，就好像我通过与埃德的交谈更加了解她了。
And I'm clearer now on what her very last days on earth were like.
我现在更清楚她在地球上最后的日子是什么样的。
But we've both noticed we're talking about mom less and less.
但我们都注意到我们谈论妈妈的次数越来越少。
People told me this would happen, but I didn't really believe them.
人们告诉我这会发生，但我并不真正相信他们。
Or I didn't want to.
或者我不想。
Time slouches on.
时间悄然流逝。
You wake up to different thoughts in the morning.
早上醒来时，你会有不同的想法。
And when you call home the first thing you say isn't, "How are you holding up?" Like, it used to be that you would mark how long it had been.
当你打电话回家时，你说的第一句话不是“你还好吗？”就像，过去你会标记已经过去了多长时间。
You'd say like, "I can't believe it'll be three months on Monday," or, "I can't believe it'll be nine months on Thursday or whatever."
你会说，“我不敢相信星期一就已经是三个月了”，或者，“我不敢相信星期四就已经是九个月了”等等。
You do?
你做？
Ed Hacker Yeah, and I also have an app on my computer, all three of them, which is set to tell me how many days since Pat died.
Ed Hacker 是的，我的电脑上也有一个应用程序，全部三个，它可以告诉我帕特去世后多少天。
Oh, I didn't know that.
哦，我不知道。
Ed Hacker So this way, I'm going there right now, to see what my apps are.
Ed Hacker 那么这样，我现在就去那里，看看我的应用程序是什么。
What do they call it now?
他们现在叫它什么？
Got too much junk here.
这里的垃圾太多了。
[CHUCKLING] Oh yes, Count Down.
[咯咯笑]哦，是的，倒计时。
You can set it for anything, you know.
你知道，你可以将它设置为任何东西。
I mean-- well, it's been 22 months and three days since she's died.
我的意思是——嗯，她去世已经 22 个月又三天了。
Or if you want, one year, 10 months, and three days.
或者如果你愿意的话，也可以是一年十个月零三天。
Or if you want, 95-- 96 weeks.
或者如果你愿意的话，95-96周。
And what do you feel like, looking at that?
看到这个你有什么感觉？
Don't have any particular feeling.
没有什么特别的感觉。
It's just that it's amazing that it's almost two years.
只是，已经快两年了，真是太神奇了。
It's like saying I remember.
就好像说我记得一样。
Yeah, I feel like I need something like that.
是的，我觉得我需要这样的东西。
I just feel like I don't think about her enough.
我只是觉得我对她的思念还不够。
Well, that you'll have to explain.
好吧，你得解释一下。
Why should you think more?
何必多想呢？
Is it guilt or something?
是愧疚还是什么？
Sean Cole It's not guilt, no.
肖恩·科尔 这不是内疚，不。
You want to honor her more by thinking about her?
你想通过想念她来更加尊重她吗？
Yeah, I want to honor her more by thinking about her, and it also feels like there's something going on in me all the time that I'm not acknowledging, that kind of leaks out in these other ways.
是的，我想通过思考她来更多地尊重她，而且感觉我内心一直在发生一些我没有承认的事情，这种事情会通过其他方式泄漏出来。
And I just miss her.
我只是想念她。
And so it's like I need to put that missing somewhere.
所以我需要把缺失的东西放在某个地方。
Yeah, I have one up on the wall in my office.
是的，我办公室的墙上挂着一张。
OK, take another one.
好的，再拿一张。
And every day, move it from one spot to another in your apartment.
每天，将它从公寓的一个地方移到另一个地方。
That's a really good idea.
这真是个好主意。
Did you just think of that?
你刚才想到了吗？
But the truth is, I already have the ritual I need.
但事实是，我已经有了我需要的仪式。
I don't do it every day, but I do it just about every week.
我不是每天都这样做，但我几乎每周都会这样做。
I call Ed.
我打了电话。
We talk.
我们说话。
For this specific need I have, it turns out he's the perfect person to call.
对于我的这一特殊需求，事实证明他是最合适的人选。
Maybe you've got somebody like that, a personal Ghostbuster when there's something strange in the neighborhood, when things are looking their worst, that person who will know what you're talking about, even if they can't understand what you're saying.
也许你有这样的人，一个个人的捉鬼敢死队，当附近出现奇怪的事情时，当事情看起来最糟糕时，那个人会知道你在说什么，即使他们听不懂你在说什么。
And all you've gotta do is call.
您所要做的就是打电话。
Our show today in three area codes is about people lucky enough to find someone like that, in some very dire situations, and also when they need directions to Garbage Street.
我们今天的节目以三个区号讲述的是那些幸运地找到这样的人的人，在一些非常可怕的情况下，以及当他们需要前往垃圾街的路线时。
It's really called that.
确实是这么叫的。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act 1, Fass Talker.
第一幕，Fass Talker。
There's this legendary late night radio show host on WBAI here in New York named Bob Fass.
纽约 WBAI 有一位传奇的深夜广播节目主持人，名叫鲍勃·法斯 (Bob Fass)。
And he hosts a show called Radio Unnameable.
他还主持了一个名为“无名电台”的节目。
It first went on the air in 1963, and it was Bob's idea.
它于 1963 年首次播出，这是鲍勃的主意。
He told the station managers he wanted to talk to all the late shift workers and the other night owls who were up at that hour.
他告诉车站经理，他想与所有晚班工人和其他在那个时间起床的夜猫子交谈。
This is Bob Fass, and this is Radio Unnameable.
我是鲍勃·法斯，这是无名电台。
He goes on at midnight, keeps listeners company until dawn.
他在午夜继续演奏，陪伴听众直到黎明。
For a while, it aired five or six nights a week, but ultimately the station scaled it back to Thursday nights.
有一段时间，它每周播出五六个晚上，但最终电视台将其缩减到周四晚上。
WBAI is a listener-funded community station.
WBAI 是一个由听众资助的社区电台。
It's part of the Pacifica Foundation.
它是 Pacifica 基金会的一部分。
And when Radio Unnameable started, it was the kind of 1960s, 1970s radio show that really doesn't exist anymore.
当 Radio Unnameable 开始播出时，这种 20 世纪 60 年代、1970 年代的广播节目实际上已经不复存在了。
If Bob liked a song, he might play it over and over again all night.
如果鲍勃喜欢一首歌，他可能会整晚一遍又一遍地播放它。
Or he'd play two songs at once.
或者他会同时演奏两首歌。
Famous musicians like Bob Dylan would drop by after midnight.
像鲍勃·迪伦这样的著名音乐家会在午夜后过来拜访。
Sometimes, they performed.
有时，他们表演。
And sometimes, Bob would put a ton of people on the phone all at once.
有时，鲍勃会让很多人同时打电话。
Trees.
树木。
Sean Cole This audio is from a documentary movie about Bob's show.
肖恩·科尔 (Sean Cole) 此音频来自一部有关鲍勃表演的纪录片。
The movie is also called Radio Unnameable.
这部电影也被称为“无名电台”。
Is there snow?
有雪吗？
Woman 1 Yeah, there's snow.
女人 1 是啊，下雪了。
Oh, wait a minute.
哦，等一下。
Woman 1 Open your eyes and look outside.
女人1睁开眼睛看看外面。
There's snow.
有雪。
Nope, not on 60th.
不，不是 60 号。
It's as dry as a bone.
它像骨头一样干燥。
Where are you?
你在哪里？
I'm on 66th.
我是66号。
Woman 2 No snow on 60th.
女人2 60号没有雪。
I swear it.
我发誓。
A lot of people have felt like Bob Fass was the perfect person to call, when they were alone in the middle of the night.
很多人都觉得，当他们在半夜独处时，给鲍勃·法斯打电话是最合适的人选。
Bob, you just missed a good conversation.
鲍勃，你刚刚错过了一次愉快的谈话。
And the story I'm going to tell you is about just one caller for whom that was certainly true.
我要告诉你的故事只是关于一位来电者的故事，对他来说这确实是真的。
This call came in to WBAI on November 6, 1971, about a quarter to 3:00 in the morning.
WBAI 接到这个电话是在 1971 年 11 月 6 日凌晨 3:00 左右。
BAI.
白。
Suicidal Caller Oh, it certainly takes you long enough.
自杀呼叫者哦，这确实需要你足够长的时间。
Bob and the caller talked for 45 minutes.
鲍勃和来电者聊了 45 分钟。
This is minute one.
这是第一分钟。
Are you a gentlemen?
你们是绅士吗？
I hope.
我希望。
Bob Fass I don't know what a gentleman means.
鲍勃·法斯 我不知道绅士是什么意思。
Well, I'm in the process of committing suicide, and maybe this would help BAI, you know, to collect money or something.
嗯，我正在自杀，也许这会帮助 BAI，你知道，筹集资金或其他什么。
Just a quick trigger warning for people who are sensitive to hearing about suicide, that's what this call is about.
对于那些对自杀消息敏感的人来说，这是一个快速触发警告，这就是这次电话会议的目的。
But don't turn me in or ...
但别把我告发，否则……
my number or anything like that.
我的号码或类似的东西。
You're in the process of committing suicide.
你正在自杀。
That's a crime.
这是犯罪行为。
Sean Cole That voice there is another guy who was in the studio with Bob that night.
肖恩·科尔 那个声音是那天晚上和鲍勃一起在录音室的另一个人。
Even Bob doesn't remember who it was anymore.
就连鲍勃也不记得那人是谁了。
It was a long time ago.
那是很久以前的事了。
That's a what.
那是一个什么。
Sean Cole And here Bob kind of shushes his friend.
肖恩·科尔 鲍勃在这里让他的朋友安静。
Don't answer that.
不要回答这个问题。
Suicidal Caller A crime?
自杀者犯罪？
All my life I've wanted to commit a crime.
我一生都想犯罪。
At last, I succeeded.
最后，我成功了。
Why?
为什么？
I mean, why did you call up to say that you were going to commit suicide?
我是说，你为什么打电话说你要自杀？
Because you might be able to use this in some way.
因为您也许能够以某种方式使用它。
How can I use it?
我该如何使用它？
Suicidal Caller I see it as an item on page 3 of tomorrow's New York Post, you know?
自杀呼叫者 我在明天的《纽约邮报》第 3 页上看到了它，你知道吗？
"Suicide calls BA--."
“自杀叫BA——”
Apparently, the caller says a cussword at this point.
显然，打电话的人此时说出了脏话。
They had to censor it.
他们必须对其进行审查。
All right.
好的。
Hey, that's really funny.
嘿，这真的很有趣。
Like, you say you're going to commit suicide, and now I have to bleep you off the air.
就像，你说你要自杀，现在我必须让你停止广播。
Well, you said you said a word that you can't say on the air, even if you are about to depart this vale of tears.
好吧，你说你在广播中说了一句话，即使你即将离开这个泪谷，也不能说。
I am.
我是。
Bob Fass You are, huh?
鲍勃·法斯 你是吧？
Why?
为什么？
I mean--
我的意思是——
...
...
of things, including a final rejection from a girlfriend, trite as all that.
诸如此类的事情，包括最后被女朋友拒绝，这都是老生常谈。
Well, that'll really teach her, won't it?
嗯，这确实能教会她，不是吗？
Teach her or me?
教她还是我？
Bob Fass Her.
鲍勃·法斯 她。
Well, it'll teach you, I guess.
好吧，我想它会教你的。
Teach me.
教我吧。
Yeah, she'll be around for a while.
是的，她会待一段时间。
If you listen closely, you can hear a sort of hushed hubbub in the background.
如果你仔细听，你可以听到背景中有一种安静的喧闹声。
Bob's writing a note to get people's attention.
鲍勃正在写一张便条以引起人们的注意。
It wasn't long before other staff at the station were calling the police, who in turn started working with the phone company to see if they could track the guy down.
不久之后，车站的其他工作人员就报了警，警察又开始与电话公司合作，看看是否能找到这名男子。
All the while, Bob stays surprisingly collected.
鲍勃始终保持着令人惊讶的镇定。
I hope you're not, you know, doing anything about tracing the call.
我希望你没有做任何关于追踪电话的事情。
I wouldn't want you to.
我不想让你这么做。
Bob Fass Well, suppose I said I didn't want you to commit suicide?
鲍勃·法斯：好吧，假设我说我不想让你自杀？
What do you care what I want?
你管我想要什么？
All right, well, I don't.
好吧，好吧，我不。
I mean, I think it's a-- if you think you're going to die of a broken heart, you're not--
我的意思是，我认为这是——如果你认为自己会因心碎而死，那么你就不会——
The truth is that my life is in a total mess at the moment, both as far as jobs, my girlfriend, my so-called friends.
事实上，我现在的生活一团糟，无论是工作、女朋友还是所谓的朋友。
How are you gonna do it?
你要怎么做？
Suicidal Caller I've done it, I'm sorry to say.
自杀呼叫者 我已经做到了，我很遗憾地说。
What do you mean?
你是什么意思？
Suicidal Caller I've taken an amalgam of pills.
自杀呼叫者 我服用了多种药丸。
What have you taken?
你拿了什么？
Suicidal Caller Sleeping pills.
自杀者打电话安眠药。
Three different kinds of sleeping pills and some anti-depressants.
三种不同的安眠药和一些抗抑郁药。
And I think the totality of it will do it.
我认为它的整体会做到这一点。
At least, I hope so.
至少，我希望如此。
I'm going to tell you right now that the caller survived.
我现在要告诉你，打电话的人活了下来。
In fact, he lived for another 20 years after this.
事实上，此后他又活了20年。
Which means he died when he was 68.
这意味着他在68岁时就去世了。
I can't find any record of how he died.
我找不到他是怎么死的任何记录。
But I'm telling you this in part because I don't want that question to distract you from how this phone call played out.
但我告诉你这些，部分原因是我不想让这个问题分散你对这次电话的进展的注意力。
I've really never heard anything like it.
我真的从来没有听说过这样的事情。
I feel like a lot of times, in stories like this, the people trying to stop a potential suicide victim tiptoe around that person gingerly, careful not to make any sudden moves.
我觉得很多时候，在这样的故事中，试图阻止潜在自杀受害者的人们小心翼翼地绕过那个人，小心翼翼地不要做出任何突然的举动。
Bob didn't do that.
鲍勃没有这样做。
He didn't treat the guy like a potential victim.
他没有把这个人当作潜在的受害者来对待。
He treated him like a person, like anybody else calling into the show.
他把他当作一个人来对待，就像其他人来参加节目一样。
And to be a person with someone who's about to cease being a person, that just takes an awful lot of nerve.
和一个即将不再是人的人在一起，这需要很大的勇气。
I went out to Bob's house on Staten Island to talk to him about this call, ask him what he remembers.
我去了鲍勃在斯塔顿岛的家，和他谈论了这次电话，问他还记得什么。
Which is not a ton, but certain things have stuck with him.
这虽然不是很多，但有些事情却一直困扰着他。
He says WBAI had been doing a fundraising marathon that night, and the calls were all coming into the pledge room.
他说，那天晚上，WBAI 正在进行一场筹款马拉松，所有的电话都打进了认捐室。
He thought maybe the caller was just trying to get on the air and said this crazy thing to make sure they'd patch him through.
他认为来电者可能只是想接通广播，并说了这句疯狂的话，以确保他们能够接通他的电话。
You ever heard the expression "a dead baby call?"
你听过“死婴的呼唤”这句话吗？
No. Bob Fass Talk show language.
不，鲍勃·法斯脱口秀语言。
In the middle of a happy time, someone calls up and says, "My baby just died." A wet blanket call.
正高兴的时候，有人打来电话说：“我的孩子刚刚死了。”一个湿毯子的电话。
I see.
我懂了。
Bob Fass But when his speech began to slur, it didn't seem like a typical call like that.
鲍勃·法斯（Bob Fass）：但是当他的讲话开始含糊不清时，这看起来不像是一个典型的电话。
Do you know what?
你知道什么吗？
It's not because I don't trust you.
这并不是因为我不信任你。
I'm going to hang up.
我要挂断电话了。
Well, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
好吧，等一下，等一下，等一下。
The worst thing that can happen is somebody will stop you from doing this thing, and then you'll have another chance to do it later.
可能发生的最糟糕的事情是有人会阻止你做这件事，然后你以后还有机会做这件事。
Talk to me for a few--
和我聊几句——
He says, "I've dispersed my estate, so to speak." Meaning, he sent what little was left in his checking account to a handful of friends.
他说：“可以这么说，我已经分散了我的财产。”意思是，他将支票账户上所剩无几的钱寄给了几个朋友。
I'd be very embarrassed to ask for the money back, you know.
你知道，如果我要求退款，我会感到非常尴尬。
Well, maybe-- maybe it was in some way, it was all of your possessions that were hanging you up.
好吧，也许——也许在某种程度上，是你所有的财产把你吊起来了。
You know?
你知道？
With all due respect, I think you're trying to trick me, and I'm going to hang up.
恕我直言，我认为你想欺骗我，我要挂断电话了。
And I hope BAI can use this in some way.
我希望 BAI 能够以某种方式利用这一点。
You know, it's dramatic and all that.
你知道，这很戏剧性。
You know.
你知道。
Well, I mean, why do you want BAI to have the use of your death or your--
好吧，我的意思是，为什么你希望 BAI 使用你的死亡或你的——
I've never had the decency to send you 15 bucks.
我从来没有礼貌地给你寄过15块钱。
I don't think you ought to kill yourself over it.
我认为你不应该因此而自杀。
I mean, a little guilt is OK.
我的意思是，有一点内疚是可以的。
I'm not killing myself over that.
我不会因此而自杀。
But you know, I've really never done anything for the station, and the station's a good station, and it's afforded me a lot of pleasure in a mostly otherwise drought-ridden life.
但你知道，我真的从来没有为车站做过任何事，而车站是一个很好的车站，它给我在干旱的生活中带来了很多乐趣。
And now I'm going to say goodbye.
现在我要说再见了。
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
等一下，等一下。
Before you say goodbye, give us like-- it takes about 20 minutes to trace a call, and you haven't been on the phone with us for three minutes yet.
在你说再见之前，请告诉我们——追踪一个电话大约需要 20 分钟，而你已经有 3 分钟没有和我们通电话了。
You telling me the truth?
你告诉我真相吗？
Bob Fass I'm telling you the truth.
鲍勃·法斯 我告诉你实话。
It takes about 20 minutes to trace a call.
追踪呼叫大约需要 20 分钟。
I know, because we tried to--
我知道，因为我们试图——
Why does it take so long?
为什么需要这么长时间？
Bob Fass Because the telephone company is more messed up than your life is, and they're not about to commit suicide.
鲍勃·法斯：因为电话公司比你的生活更混乱，而且他们不会自杀。
I guess I would have worried that like, oh no. Like, he's going to hang up.
我想我会担心，哦不。就像，他要挂断电话了。
Do you know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
I think that's why I would have been-- I would have been so gentle.
我想这就是为什么我会如此温柔。
Do you know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
Well, I thought I was trying to be gentle, but if you lull someone to sleep, that's what you're fighting against.
好吧，我以为我是想表现得温柔，但如果你哄别人入睡，那就是你所反对的。
If you can get them to show a little ire, maybe they'll hang on to life.
如果你能让他们表现出一点愤怒，也许他们就能活下去。
I don't think so.
我不这么认为。
I don't think it's been more than five.
我认为还没有超过五个。
Oh no, no. It's not five.
哦不，不。这不是五个。
Sean Cole It's eight.
肖恩·科尔 八点了。
This is eight minutes in.
这是八分钟后的事。
I think that the drugs are distorting your sense of time.
我认为药物正在扭曲你的时间感。
No, they're not.
不，他们不是。
Bob Fass That's the first thing.
鲍勃·法斯 这是第一件事。
I have a very good time sense.
我的时间观念非常好。
We've been speaking 18 minutes.
我们已经聊了18分钟了。
All right, I'll tell you what.
好吧，我告诉你什么。
As a test of that, I'll start and you tell me when a minute is up.
作为对此的测试，我将开始，一分钟结束时你告诉我。
All right.
好的。
Bob Fass I have a timer right here, and we'll-- it's an electronic timer.
鲍勃·法斯（Bob Fass）：我这里有一个计时器，我们会——它是一个电子计时器。
You'll see that I'll be right within five seconds.
你会发现我五秒钟之内就答对了。
OK, started now.
好的，现在开始。
All right, you tell me when a minute is up.
好吧，一分钟到了你告诉我。
OK, will you bet your life on your ability to do this?
好吧，你愿意用你的生命来赌你的能力吗？
No. Bob Fass No. See?
不，鲍勃·法斯不，看到了吗？
You're not willing to gamble.
你不愿意去赌博。
You're afraid that something is going to happen to--
你担心会发生什么事情——
I am a gambler.
我是一个赌徒。
Bob Fass Well, then gamble on this.
鲍勃·法斯：好吧，那就赌一把吧。
I mean, this is the ultimate bet of all, isn't it?
我的意思是，这是最终的赌注，不是吗？
In one shape or another, that's been in my mind since I was 16 or younger.
不管怎样，从我 16 岁或更年轻的时候起，这件事就一直在我的脑海里。
Well, I mean, I don't think that's even unique.
嗯，我的意思是，我认为这并不是独一无二的。
I think everyone has had-- has been struggling against the awareness of death.
我想每个人都曾——一直在与死亡意识作斗争。
No, it's 45 seconds.
不，是 45 秒。
You're 15 seconds off.
你还有 15 秒时间。
And 15 seconds out of every minute--
每分钟有 15 秒——
I was talking, so I got carried away maybe.
我正在说话，所以我可能得意忘形了。
All right, let's see if you can do it in silence.
好吧，让我们看看你能不能默默地做到这一点。
No, no, no. You're stalling me.
不，不，不。你在拖延我。
You're obviously stalling me.
你这明显是在拖延我。
I appreciate it a great deal.
我非常感激。
You're right.
你说得对。
I am trying to stall you, and trying to talk you out of it.
我试图阻止你，并试图说服你放弃它。
And I think you ought to give me half a chance.
我认为你应该给我一半的机会。
This is another remarkable thing about this phone call.
这是这次电话的另一件值得注意的事情。
The caller keeps saying, "I'm on to you.
打电话的人一直说：“我正在接你。
I've figured you out." But there's nothing to figure out.
我已经猜到你了。”但没有什么可弄清楚的。
For the entire 45 minutes, Bob is scrupulously honest about what he's doing.
在整个 45 分钟里，鲍勃对自己所做的事情一丝不苟地诚实。
This is one of the few times in life where it would be more than forgivable to mislead someone, to just keep stringing them along to keep them on the phone.
这是生活中为数不多的几次，误导某人，让他们继续打电话，这是完全可以原谅的。
And Bob never does that.
鲍勃从来不这样做。
Because he never did that on the air.
因为他从来没有在直播中这样做过。
As always, he's just a naked heart speaking into the microphone, which, in this situation, that's the ultimate bet.
一如既往，他只是一颗赤裸裸的心对着麦克风说话，在这种情况下，这是最终的选择。
I mean, you called me.
我的意思是，你打电话给我。
You called us here because you wanted to say something to us, or to people listening, or do something for us.
您把我们叫到这里是因为您想对我们说点什么，或者想对我们倾听的人说点什么，或者为我们做点什么。
Yeah, get your PR department on this.
是的，让你的公关部门处理这件事。
You can use a little publicity and some money.
您可以使用一点宣传和一些钱。
I mean, I think that's insulting that we would use someone's death.
我的意思是，我认为我们利用某人的死亡是一种侮辱。
Give us a chance to find out why, and tell us, convince us that it's a right and proper action.
给我们一个机会找出原因，并告诉我们，让我们相信这是正确且正确的行动。
All right.
好的。
Let me ask you three questions.
让我问你三个问题。
Please answer care--
请小心回答——
I'll answer very carefully.
我会很仔细地回答。
Suicidal Caller What?
自杀者打电话什么？
I'll answer very carefully.
我会很仔细地回答。
Suicidal Caller I don't care about carefully, but honestly.
自杀呼叫者我不关心，但老实说。
You started to say "carefully." Didn't you start to say "carefully?"
你开始说“小心点”。你不是开始说“小心点”吗？
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
Bob Fass Well, I mean that stuff is important.
鲍勃·法斯（Bob Fass）嗯，我的意思是这些东西很重要。
I will answer carefully, and I will answer honestly.
我会认真回答，我会诚实回答。
Are we on the air?
我们在直播吗？
Bob Fass Yes, we are.
鲍勃·法斯 是的，我们是。
I'd rather be off.
我宁愿离开。
One, OK?
一个，好吗？
Bob Fass You'd rather be off?
鲍勃·法斯：你想离开吗？
Off the air....
停播了....
And two, I would like your promise that-- your sterling promise that you're not going to have this call traced.
第二，我希望你能做出明确的承诺，保证你的通话不会被追踪。
Do I have that?
我有那个吗？
It is a tough one.
这是一项艰难的任务。
I mean, it's really like-- because you see what you've laid on me?
我的意思是，这真的就像——因为你看到你对我施加了什么？
Yeah, but don't you see?
是啊，但是你没看到吗？
I don't think you could get that promise out of any human being.
我认为你无法从任何人那里得到这样的承诺。
It was not easy to trace a call in 1971.
1971 年，追踪电话并不容易。
And in this case, it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.
而在这种情况下，花费的时间比20分钟要长得多。
The process is way too complicated to explain here, but it was a mechanical process that involved multiple people at the phone company's central office.
这个过程太复杂了，无法在这里解释，但这是一个机械过程，涉及电话公司中央办公室的多个人员。
And it may have already been under way by the time the caller asked for it not to be.
当呼叫者要求停止时，它可能已经开始了。
In any case, it wasn't like Bob was doing it himself.
无论如何，这并不是鲍勃自己做的。
And again, he could have said to the guy, "Sure, I won't trace it," just to appease him.
再说一次，他可以对那个人说：“当然，我不会追踪它”，只是为了安抚他。
But Bob says that didn't seem right.
但鲍勃说这似乎不对。
This is a guy who might be dead.
这是一个可能已经死了的家伙。
And if the last thing that someone told him was a lie, that's heavy.
如果有人告诉他的最后一件事是谎言，那就太沉重了。
I didn't want to do that.
我不想那样做。
I'd like to continue talking to you for a while.
我想继续和你聊一会儿。
All right, got but only with that promise that you're not going to have the call traced.
好吧，得到了，但前提是保证你的通话不会被追踪。
I can't promise that, but I mean, you can force me to, if you'll say that's the only way you'll talk to me.
我不能保证这一点，但我的意思是，如果你说这是你与我交谈的唯一方式，你可以强迫我这样做。
But it's not a promise that I want to make.
但这不是我想要做出的承诺。
I'll stop talking to you then, because I don't want to have a kind of messy night with a lot of beefy Irish policemen sitting at the foot of my bed.
那我就不再和你说话了，因为我不想度过一个混乱的夜晚，有很多强壮的爱尔兰警察坐在我的床脚下。
Yeah, we got a priest down here who'll talk to you too.
是的，我们这里有一位牧师，他也会和你说话。
He'll be up in a minute, sonny.
他一会儿就会起来，儿子。
Around about the 20 minute mark, something weird happens.
大约20分钟左右，奇怪的事情发生了。
The conversation floats down to earth and becomes totally normal.
谈话变得脚踏实地，变得完全正常。
Imagine for a second that this is where you came in, that you've heard nothing else up till now.
想象一下，这就是您进来的地方，到目前为止您没有听到任何其他消息。
I despise Orson Welles, but he's not himself in this movie.
我鄙视奥森·威尔斯，但他在这部电影中不是他自己。
Why do you despise Orson Welles?
你为什么鄙视奥逊·威尔斯？
Everybody digs it.
每个人都挖掘它。
I find him so hammy.
我发现他很哈米。
Bob Fass Because of those airline commercials?
鲍勃·法斯 因为那些航空公司的广告？
Yeah, I mean, no, I don't think so.
是的，我的意思是，不，我不这么认为。
I mean, I think that he may have been hammy throughout his career, but the hamminess has become him.
我的意思是，我认为他在整个职业生涯中可能都是哈米，但哈米已经成为了他。
That's like an old Betty Field movie.
这就像贝蒂·菲尔德的一部老电影。
Did you ever see that?
你见过吗？
It was called Tales of Manhattan.
它的名字叫《曼哈顿故事》。
Turns out the caller's a real movie buff.
原来来电者是个真正的电影迷。
He works in media, writes satire, some humor.
他在媒体工作，写讽刺作品和一些幽默作品。
He's a freelancer.
他是一名自由职业者。
He and Bob dreamily run through one of the plotlines of an old Betty Field movie called Flesh and Fantasy.
他和鲍勃如梦似幻地回顾了贝蒂·菲尔德的一部老电影《肉体与幻想》的情节之一。
This is what most of the calls on Radio Unnameable were like.
这就是无名电台上的大多数通话的情况。
Bob didn't screen them, and there was rarely a point to them.
鲍勃没有筛选它们，而且它们很少有任何意义。
It sounded more like family catching up with each other.
听起来更像是家人团聚。
And by the way, this wasn't the first time that someone called up the show who was suicidal.
顺便说一句，这并不是第一次有人在节目中出现自杀倾向。
Bob says a woman called once, threatening to kill herself, and he managed to talk her down.
鲍勃说，有一次一个女人打电话来，威胁要自杀，他设法说服了她。
He says she's still around, doing OK.
他说她还在，一切都很好。
If someone is so lacking in friends and other human contacts that they need the voice that comes out of the radio to be their friend, they're really-- they're in trouble, you know?
如果某人如此缺乏朋友和其他人际交往，以至于他们需要收音机中发出的声音成为他们的朋友，那么他们真的有麻烦了，你知道吗？
I mean, I can remember in my life when there were times that the only thing I could trust to the extent that I could trust it was the voice coming out of Long John or Jean Shepherd.
我的意思是，我记得在我的生活中，有时我唯一可以相信的事情就是来自朗·约翰或吉恩·谢泼德的声音。
These are radio personalities in your day?
这些是你那个时代的广播名人吗？
That's right.
这是正确的。
They had carved a place out of the universe that was reasonably sane for them.
他们在宇宙中开辟了一个对他们来说相当理智的地方。
And they were overnight announcers too, Long John Nebel and Jean Shepherd.
他们也是夜间播音员，朗·约翰·内贝尔（Long John Nebel）和让·谢泼德（Jean Shepherd）。
The difference is, they weren't exactly the kind of guys you'd call up when you'd already swallowed three kinds of pharmaceuticals.
不同的是，他们并不是那种当你已经吞下三种药物时你会打电话给他们的人。
If this caller was looking for empathy, empathy is what Bob specialized in.
如果这个来电者正在寻找同理心，那么鲍勃就擅长同理心。
25 minutes in, Bob seems to have gotten to the guy, in a good way.
25 分钟后，鲍勃似乎已经以一种很好的方式找到了那个人。
His guard is down.
他的戒心放松了。
He's relaxed.
他很放松。
He's also on a supreme amount of sedatives, so there's that.
他还服用了大量的镇静剂，所以就是这样。
They're talking about the smallest little thing.
他们谈论的是最小的小事。
The guy says he's drinking seltzer.
那家伙说他在喝苏打水。
Bob asks if it's one of those old fashioned Marx Brothers type bottles that you squirt.
鲍勃问你喷的是不是那种老式马克思兄弟式的瓶子。
The caller says no.
打电话的人说没有。
This is bad, but you can't get that on the East Side.
这很糟糕，但你在东区是做不到的。
There's a clue.
有一个线索。
"There's a clue," he says.
“有一条线索，”他说。
Bob Fass That's weird, that you can't get that on the East Side.
鲍勃·法斯（Bob Fass）：这很奇怪，你在东区买不到这个。
Yeah, at least as far as I know, you can't.
是的，至少据我所知，你不能。
At least not on the Upper East Side.
至少在上东区不是。
I think you can.
我想你可以。
I think if you live in a neighborhood where the seltzer man isn't afraid of junkies jumping him in the hallway, you can get seltzer delivered.
我想如果你住在一个社区，那里的苏打水贩子不怕瘾君子在走廊上攻击他，你就可以让苏打水送货上门。
Doesn't that make you want to live?
这难道不让你想活下去吗？
Almost.
几乎。
It's not that I don't want to live.
并不是我不想活。
It's that I do want to die.
就是我真的想死。
Why do you want to die?
你为什么想死？
Suicidal Caller Oh.
自杀者哦。
I mean, can you talk-- I mean, if dying is so hot, why don't you try to talk me into it?
我的意思是，你能谈谈吗——我的意思是，如果死亡如此激烈，你为什么不试着说服我接受它呢？
No, it has to be a very individual decision.
不，这必须是一个非常个人的决定。
All I ask you to do is to explain in a manner that I could understand why you were going to do yourself in, so that I would say, oh yeah, that's a logical decision.
我要求你做的就是以一种我能理解你为什么要这样做的方式解释，这样我就会说，哦，是的，这是一个合乎逻辑的决定。
Well, I'll try.
嗯，我会尝试的。
Sean Cole He says, "Well, I'll try." But then he doesn't.
肖恩·科尔 他说：“好吧，我会尝试的。”但后来他没有。
What gets me the most about this whole call is the tone in Bob's voice during it.
整个通话中最让我感动的是鲍勃在通话中的语气。
At the very same time he's being empathetic, he's also saying, "No, don't." It's one of the trickiest balancing acts you can try when relating to another person, something you usually only do when you've reached a bedrock level of intimacy with someone.
在他表现出同理心的同时，他也说：“不，不要。”这是你与另一个人交往时可以尝试的最棘手的平衡行为之一，通常只有当你与某人达到了亲密的基础水平时才会这样做。
And here he's doing it with a complete stranger.
而在这里，他正在和一个完全陌生的人一起做这件事。
But Bob says there's a way in which he felt connected to the guy.
但鲍勃说，他在某种程度上感觉与这个人有联系。
Without going into it too deeply, I had been severely depressed at one important point myself.
无需深入探讨，我自己就曾在一个重要时刻感到严重抑郁。
And I recognized that it's possible to come back, you know?
我意识到有可能回来，你知道吗？
So--
所以——
I could.
我可以。
Now you've gotten-- you gotten me a little agitated here.
现在你让我有点焦躁了。
Oh, I'm sorry.
哦，对不起。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
Bob Fass Well, it's nice to know you're alive.
鲍勃·法斯：嗯，很高兴知道你还活着。
At about minute 38, the caller starts to slip into that liminal space between waking and sleeping.
大约第 38 分钟，打电话的人开始陷入清醒和睡眠之间的界限。
His speech is so slurry it's almost incomprehensible.
他的讲话非常含糊，几乎无法理解。
Like tape that's been slowed way down.
就像放慢速度的磁带一样。
He keeps talking, but you can tell he's starting to dream at the same time.
他一直在说话，但你可以看出他同时开始做梦。
The kids?
孩子们？
What kids?
什么孩子？
Suicidal Caller The kids--
自杀呼叫者孩子们——
Then he stops making sense.
然后他就不再讲道理了。
Bob Fass Well, what did "the kids" mean?
鲍勃·法斯 那么，“孩子们”是什么意思？
You said something about kids.
你说了一些关于孩子的事情。
Yeah, in Milano.
是的，在米兰。
In Milano.
在米兰。
Bob Fass In what?
鲍勃·法斯在哪？
Near-- near-- near Milano, a city in Italy.
靠近——靠近——靠近意大利的一个城市米兰。
I don't understand.
我不明白。
Suicidal Caller I think I'm going.
自杀呼叫者 我想我要走了。
Trying to stand up.
试图站起来。
Bob Fass Please try and stand up.
鲍勃·法斯 请尝试站起来。
Do it.
做吧。
You can do it.
你可以做到的。
Just get up on your feet.
只要站起来。
Pitch yourself up on your feet.
站起来。
At about 2:45 yesterday morning, a man telephoned Radio Unnameable with WBAI talk and music show, and told its moderator, Bob Fass and the station's listeners, "I'm going to commit suicide."
昨天凌晨 2 点 45 分左右，一名男子给 WBAI 谈话和音乐节目的无名电台打电话，告诉主持人鲍勃·法斯和电台听众，“我要自杀了。”
Get up, get up.
起来吧，起来吧。
Suicidal Caller [MUMBLING]
自杀者打电话[咕哝]
The New York Telephone Company assigned more than a dozen persons to trace the call.
纽约电话公司派了十几个人来追踪电话。
Stand up, stand up, stand up.
站起来，站起来，站起来。
And they determined that the call originated from the East Side.
他们确定电话是从东区打来的。
Stand up.
起来。
The police of the 104th Street Station were then notified.
随后通知了 104 街车站的警察。
Get up.
起床。
That's it.
就是这样。
Get up.
起床。
Listeners called the station.
听众给电台打电话。
"The man's voice sounded familiar," one said.
“这个男人的声音听起来很熟悉，”一位人士说。
"What are the police doing?" asked another.
“警察在做什么？”另一个人问道。
Of course it wasn't Stanley Kaufman.
当然不是斯坦利·考夫曼。
Stanley Kaufman was the drama critic of the Times.
斯坦利·考夫曼是《泰晤士报》的戏剧评论家。
I think I know that name.
我想我知道这个名字。
Have I ever seen it published anywhere?
我在任何地方见过它出版过吗？
Stanley?
斯坦利？
Stanley?
斯坦利？
At 6:30 AM, the police, acting on information from the telephone company, found a man lying unconscious on his bedroom floor.
早上 6 点 30 分，警方根据电话公司提供的信息采取行动，发现一名男子躺在卧室地板上不省人事。
Stanley?
斯坦利？
At 110 East 87th Street.
位于东 87 街 110 号。
His telephone was off the hook, and three empty pill bottles were at his side.
他的电话没电，身边放着三个空药瓶。
Hey, Stanley!
嘿，斯坦利！
Stanley!
斯坦利！
The police said the man was identified by his landlady and his estranged wife as Michael Valenti, 47 years old.
警方称，该男子的女房东和分居的妻子确认这名男子名叫迈克尔·瓦伦蒂 (Michael Valenti)，现年 47 岁。
The man was taken to Metropolitan Hospital, where he was being kept under observation.
该男子被送往大都会医院接受观察。
Still unconscious yesterday afternoon.
昨天下午还是昏迷不醒。
Sean Cole Bob finally took the call off the air and started playing this song, Hello, I Love You by The Doors.
肖恩·科尔·鲍勃 (Sean Cole Bob) 最终挂断了电话，开始播放 The Doors 的《Hello, I Love You》这首歌。
But he didn't hang up the call.
但他没有挂断电话。
He played music down the phone line instead for another three hours, in case it would help the phone company.
他又在电话线上播放了三个小时的音乐，以防对电话公司有帮助。
Thought they might be listening in while tracing.
我想他们可能在追踪的时候在偷听。
Bob says he did hear from Michael Valenti again, years later.
鲍勃说，几年后他确实再次收到迈克尔·瓦伦蒂的消息。
Valenti called him, not on the air, just a regular phone call, to say thank you, and to tell him, "I got a job." "That's wonderful," Bob said.
瓦伦蒂给他打电话，不是通过广播，只是一个普通的电话，向他表示感谢，并告诉他，“我找到了工作。” “那太棒了，”鲍勃说。
And this is according to Bob, Valenti says, "I want to do something for you.
根据鲍勃的说法，瓦伦蒂说：“我想为你做点什么。
I'm working for Hustler Magazine.
我在《骗子》杂志工作。
I give advice to the lovelorn.
我给失恋者提建议。
And if you want, I can get you a column where you give people advice to help them with their sexual problems." As always, Bob listened and responded candidly.
如果你愿意，我可以给你一个专栏，你可以在其中为人们提供建议，帮助他们解决性问题。”一如既往，鲍勃倾听并坦诚回应。
He said no.
他说不。
Just a note that there are a lot of non-radio resources available to people who are in trouble, thinking of suicide.
请注意，有很多非无线电资源可供那些陷入困境、想要自杀的人使用。
For example, there's the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline.
例如，国家预防自杀生命线。
The number is 1-800-273-8255.
电话号码是 1-800-273-8255。
Thanks to Jessica Wolfson and Paul Lovelace, who made the excellent documentary Radio Unnameable.
感谢杰西卡·沃尔夫森和保罗·洛夫莱斯制作了优秀的纪录片《无名电台》。
It's streaming on Amazon and iTunes.
它在亚马逊和 iTunes 上播放。
Coming up, the woman in charge of getting people to the streets they walk down every day, and yet don't know their names.
接下来，那位女士负责将人们带到他们每天走过的街道上，但不知道他们的名字。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Sean Cole.
我是肖恩·科尔。
Today's show, Who You Gonna Call?
今天的节目，你要打电话给谁？
Stories of people finding the specifically perfect person to ring up in their times of need.
人们在需要的时候找到特别完美的人来打电话的故事。
And now we're at Act 2 of our show.
现在我们进入演出的第二幕。
Act 2, A Road By Any Other Name.
第二幕，一条任何其他名字的路。
We heard about this woman in New York, who an entire community calls on the phone every day to help them get around town.
我们听说过纽约的这位女士，整个社区每天都会给她打电话，帮助他们在城里出行。
She's essentially the keeper of a secret map of the city.
她本质上是城市秘密地图的守护者。
Aaron Reiss finally secured an audience with her after meeting some of the people she helps.
在见到了她帮助过的一些人后，亚伦·赖斯终于与她见面了。
A while back, I moved to New York City from China, where I had just spent two years.
不久前，我从中国搬到纽约，在那里呆了两年。
I wanted to find a way to keep up my Chinese, so I moved into a cramped apartment on Rutgers Street with three elderly immigrants, a married couple and a single man, all in their 70s.
我想找到一种方法来保持我的中文水平，所以我搬进了罗格斯街一间狭窄的公寓，和三名老年移民、一对已婚夫妇和一名单身男子一起住进了公寓，他们都70多岁了。
And none of them spoke English.
他们都不会说英语。
I would help them translate their mail.
我会帮助他们翻译邮件。
They would feed me home cooked food.
他们会给我吃家里做的食物。
We had a good thing.
我们有一件好事。
But sometimes I wouldn't understand what they were saying.
但有时我听不懂他们在说什么。
The woman, for example, tended to go on at length about our neighbors and the noise from upstairs.
例如，那位女士倾向于详细讲述我们的邻居和楼上的噪音。
And even though I'd pick up only a quarter of what she was saying, I would nod along, commiserating, like, totally, I know.
即使我只能听懂她所说的四分之一，我也会点头表示同情，就像，完全，我知道。
One night, we were in the kitchen talking about what we had done that day.
一天晚上，我们在厨房里谈论那天所做的事情。
And I was having a really hard time understanding where they had gone.
我真的很难理解他们去了哪里。
They kept saying this was a place on La Zha Gai, which means dirty or garbage street.
他们一直说这是拉扎盖的一个地方，拉扎盖的意思是肮脏或垃圾街。
But I had never heard of that street.
但我从未听说过那条街。
After a confusing four or five minutes, I realized that they were actually referring to the street we lived on, right where we were standing.
经过四五分钟的混乱之后，我意识到他们实际上指的是我们居住的街道，就在我们站的地方。
It was just a nickname that a lot of people used for Rutgers Street.
这只是很多人对罗格斯街的昵称。
I started looking into it, and I learned the streets in Chinatown all have these Chinese names.
我开始调查，发现唐人街的街道都有这些中文名字。
And not just one.
而且不止一个。
Streets can have four or five different names, each used by a different population in Chinatown-- longtime Toisanese and residents, recent immigrants from Fujian, Cantonese.
街道可以有四到五个不同的名称，每个名称都由唐人街的不同人群使用——长期的台山人和居民、来自福建的新移民、广东人。
And there are actually these different Chinese maps of the city with the same streets but different names.
事实上，中国有不同的城市地图，街道相同，但名称不同。
I started collecting them.
我开始收集它们。
I buy them from this guy, DiCheng, who sells them on the corner.
我从迪成那里买的，他在街角卖的。
And there are a few people, though not many, who have to know all the names on all of the maps.
有一些人，虽然不多，但必须知道所有地图上的所有名字。
Like this woman.
就像这个女人。
Hello, Lucky?
你好，幸运儿？
Aaron Reiss Mona is a human street name almanac, because it is her job to know.
亚伦·赖斯·莫娜 (Aaron Reiss Mona) 是一本人类街道名称年鉴，因为她的工作就是知道。
She's a dispatcher at a car service in Chinatown called Good Luck.
她是唐人街一家名为“好运”的汽车服务公司的调度员。
She's in her mid-40s, lots of jewelry, no makeup, glasses.
她四十多岁，戴着很多珠宝，没有化妆，没有眼镜。
And she's always wearing this expression like, "Do I really need to be explaining this to you right now?"
她总是带着这样的表情，“我现在真的需要向你解释吗？”
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Right now, she's taking a call from a Cantonese customer who's looking for a car.
[说中文] 现在，她正在接到一位正在找车的广东顾客的电话。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] She's asking, "Where are you?"
[说中文] 她问：“你在哪里？”
[SPEAKING CHINESE] The customer just asked to get picked up on La Zha Gai, Garbage Street.
[说中文] 顾客刚刚要求在垃圾街拉扎盖上车。
Unlike me, Mona doesn't miss a beat.
与我不同的是，莫娜不会错过任何一个节拍。
She knows exactly what the caller is talking about.
她清楚地知道打电话者在说什么。
She tells the driver to go to Rutgers, in English.
她用英语告诉司机去罗格斯大学。
Then she turns to us and explains one reason why people in Chinatown started using these nicknames in the first place.
然后她转向我们，解释了唐人街的人们最初开始使用这些昵称的一个原因。
Rutger Street, they cannot pronounce it.
罗格街，他们无法发音。
So that's why they gave Rutgers Street a nickname.
这就是为什么他们给罗格斯街起了个绰号。
La Zha Gai.
拉扎盖。
La Zha is easy for them.
拉扎对他们来说很容易。
To understand how this plays out, let's start with just one street, Orchard Street.
为了了解这是如何发生的，让我们从一条街道开始，即果园街。
First, it's got its Cantonese name.
首先，它有粤语名字。
Uo Cha Gai.
乌查盖.
Sounds like "orchard," right?
听起来像“果园”，对吧？
Then its Mandarin pronunciation.
然后是普通话发音。
Ke Cha Jie.
柯查杰。
Then there are its translated names, which literally mean "orchard" in Mandarin and Cantonese.
然后是它的翻译名称，在普通话和粤语中字面意思是“果园”。
Guoyuan Jie and Gwoyoon Gai.
郭元杰和郭润盖。
Then there's its nickname.
然后就是它的昵称。
Orchard used to be a main street for Jews.
果园曾经是犹太人的主要街道。
So depending on the level of your grandpa style racism, you might call it Jewish Street.
因此，根据您祖父式种族主义的程度，您可以将其称为犹太街。
Or, as one older guy told me, it's kind of like Cheapskate Street.
或者，正如一位年长的人告诉我的那样，这有点像小气鬼街。
There are a few versions.
有几个版本。
I'm Jewish, so don't get me started.
我是犹太人，所以别让我开始。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] At any given time, there are between three and five dispatchers at Good Luck's tiny Chinatown office, sitting in a row, each of them manning a few phones at once.
[说中文] 在任何特定时间，好运位于唐人街的小办公室里都会有三到五个调度员坐成一排，每个人同时负责几部电话。
When Mona hears Dead Person Street, she sends a car to Mulberry, which she knows is named after the funeral homes and florists on the block.
当莫娜听到《死人街》时，她派了一辆车去桑树，她知道桑树是以街区里的殡仪馆和花店命名的。
When she hears Hatseller Street, she sends a car to Division Street, because, historically, well, hats.
当她听到 Hatseller Street 时，她会派一辆车到 Division Street，因为从历史上看，帽子。
There are some puzzlers, like the Kosciuszko Bridge, named after Thaddeus Kosciuszko.
有一些谜题，例如以撒迪厄斯·科修斯科命名的科修斯科大桥。
Everyone calls it the Yat Boon Jai Kiu, which literally means "the Japanese Guy Bridge." I asked some older ladies in Chinatown why.
每个人都称其为 Yat Boon Jai Kiu，字面意思是“日本盖伊桥”。我问唐人街的一些老太太为什么。
Because it has so many consonants and vowels, that it looks like a Japanese name.
因为它有很多辅音和元音，看起来像一个日本名字。
Yeah, hello.
是的，你好。
Lucky.
幸运的。
Aaron Reiss One day, I was visiting Mona at Good Luck, and she was on the phone with a customer, navigating between a couple of different names for the same section of East Broadway.
亚伦·赖斯 (Aaron Reiss) 有一天，我去好运店拜访莫娜，她正在与一位顾客通电话，在东百老汇同一路段的几个不同名字之间导航。
One is like Fujianese shorthand.
一如闽语速记。
Hi Dong Lo, and the other is the Mandarin name, Dong Bai Lao Hui.
你好，东罗，另一个是普通话名字，东白老会。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Yeah, so you're going to East Broadway, am I right?
[说中文] 是的，所以你要去东百老汇，对吗？
[SPEAKING CHINESE] Number 88, Hi Dong Lo, am I right?
[说中文] 88 号，你好，Dong Lo，我说得对吗？
[SPEAKING CHINESE] And where in Flushing is he going?
[说中文]他要去法拉盛哪里？
Bye-bye.
再见。
Aaron Reiss Then another Mandarin-speaking customer calls.
Aaron Reiss 然后另一位讲普通话的顾客打来电话。
[SPEAKING CHINESE] So right now where are you?
[说中文] 那么你现在在哪里？
She's using two different names for Canal Street, Canal Jie and Canal Lu.
她对运河街使用了两个不同的名称：运河街和运河路。
The customer is not understanding, and is talking over Mona.
顾客不理解，正在和莫娜说话。
Mona's like, "Slow down, listen to me," trying calmly to get on the same page.
莫娜就像是，“慢点，听我说”，试图平静地达成共识。
But the first time I visited Good Luck, Mona was in the front office with one phone pressed against each ear.
但我第一次拜访“好运”时，莫娜在前台，每只耳朵都贴着一部手机。
In one receiver, she was screaming over and over again at the driver in Mandarin.
在一个接收器中，她用普通话一遍又一遍地对司机尖叫。
"She's on Grand Street, Grand Street!" And then switching to the other receiver to try and sweet talk the English-speaking customer.
“她在格兰德街，格兰德街！”然后切换到另一个接收器，尝试与说英语的顾客甜言蜜语。
Just as a side note, English-speaking customers expect more coddling.
顺便说一句，说英语的顾客希望得到更多的溺爱。
Here's how Mona sounds when she talks to Chinese speakers.
以下是莫娜与说中文的人交谈时的发音。
But listen to how she is with English-speaking customers.
但听听她是如何对待说英语的顾客的。
Hi, good morning.
嗨，早上好。
Hi, how can I help you?
您好，请问有什么可以帮您的吗？
Anyway, that day with the two phones at her ears, Mona told me she was getting fed up with being the interpreter between two angry people.
不管怎样，那天，莫娜把两部手机放在耳边，告诉我她已经厌倦了在两个愤怒的人之间充当翻译。
You keep telling the passenger that the driver is in front of 570 Grand Street.
您不断告诉乘客司机位于 570 Grand Street 前面。
She don't get it.
她不明白。
And I tell the driver you parked at the wrong location.
我告诉司机你把车停错了位置。
You keep telling the passenger that the driver is in front of 570 Grand Street.
您不断告诉乘客司机位于 570 Grand Street 前面。
She don't get it.
她不明白。
And I tell the driver you parked on the wrong location.
我告诉司机你把车停错了位置。
They both don't listen.
他们俩都不听。
I hate it.
我恨它。
Why do you hate it?
你为什么讨厌它？
Mona I'm the middle.
莫娜，我是中间的。
She have her own way.
她有她自己的办法。
He has her own way.
他有她自己的办法。
So I hate it in the middle.
所以我讨厌中间的。
But she doesn't quit.
但她并没有放弃。
Mona I wish I could.
莫娜 我希望我能。
I wish, because once you're in this thing for a long time, you're addicted to it.
我希望如此，因为一旦你在这件事上待久了，你就会上瘾。
It's exciting.
这很令人兴奋。
Sometimes you yell at the people, yell at the driver.
有时你会对人大喊大叫，对司机大喊大叫。
It's like the time goes fast.
就好像时间过得很快。
A lot of people depend on Mona, people who can't just hail a cab or call an Uber and describe to a non-Chinese driver where they want to go.
很多人依赖莫娜，他们不能只叫出租车或叫优步，然后向非中国司机描述他们想去的地方。
And even if they could, there's the name trouble.
即使他们可以，也有名字的问题。
Your average New York cabbie probably can't chart a course for 24 Dead Person Street, or 54 Monkey Street.
一般的纽约出租车司机可能无法绘制前往 24 Dead Person Street 或 54 Monkey Street 的路线。
For those people, there are just a few places to turn for help, a handful of car companies and dispatchers like Mona.
对于这些人来说，只有少数地方可以寻求帮助，比如莫娜这样的几家汽车公司和调度员。
And customers are grateful.
客户也很感激。
On Chinese New Year, old ladies head over to Good Luck's office on Ludlow Street.
农历新年，老太太们会前往好运位于拉德洛街的办公室。
They hand over red envelopes with a few dollars inside, her name written at the top.
他们递上红包，里面有几块钱，上面写着她的名字。
"For Mona."
“为了莫娜。”
Act 3, Ode To Joy.
第三幕，欢乐颂。
There's this thing President Trump used to say before he got elected.
特朗普总统在当选前曾说过这样一句话。
It was part of his regular stump speech, kind of a rallying cry.
这是他定期演讲的一部分，是一种战斗口号。
We're gonna start winning again.
我们将再次开始胜利。
We're gonna win so much, you may even get tired of winning!
我们会赢很多，你甚至可能会厌倦赢！
And you'll say, "Please, please, it's too much winning.
你会说：“求你了，求你了，胜利太多了。
We can't take it anymore.
我们不能再忍受了。
Mr. President, it's too much!"
总统先生，太过分了！”
And without going into the merits of whether the president is getting tired of too much winning, or whether it is in fact even possible to get tired of too much winning, our program today deals in some ways with advice.
我们今天的节目在某种程度上提供了一些建议，而无需讨论总统是否厌倦了太多的胜利，或者实际上是否有可能厌倦太多的胜利。
And I do think it's possible to get tired of too much advice, for someone to offer so much good advice that's so perfectly suited to you that at some point you decide it just pains you to hear it.
我确实认为，你可能会厌倦太多的建议，因为有人提供了如此多的好建议，而且非常适合你，以至于在某些时候你觉得听到它只会让你感到痛苦。
The regular host of our show, Ira Glass, heard of that happening to a friend of his.
我们节目的常任主持人艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）听说他的一个朋友发生了这样的事。
Here's Ira.
这是艾拉。
The friend is my friend Lucy.
这位朋友是我的朋友露西。
And the person who gave her such good advice was not me.
而给她这么好的建议的人不是我。
Which-- OK, I'm not hurt by that.
好吧，我并没有因此受到伤害。
I personally think the advice that Lucy and I give each other is excellent.
我个人认为露西和我给彼此的建议非常好。
Lucy can think what she wants.
露西可以想她所想。
When it comes to advice, I know that the person who's advice has been a consistent north star in Lucy's life for like 15 years now is a professional advice giver, a psychologist on a call-in radio show who gives advice over the air-- Dr. Joy Browne.
说到建议，我知道给露西提供建议的人在大约 15 年来一直是露西生活中始终如一的北极星，他是一位专业的建议提供者，一位在广播节目中通过广播提供建议的心理学家——乔伊·布朗博士。
Lucy says she likes Dr. Joy Browne because, unlike some other radio psychologists that she's listened to in the past, Dr. Joy Browne doesn't smack her callers over the head with a frying pan and tell them what they're doing is wrong.
露西说她喜欢乔伊·布朗博士，因为与她过去听过的其他一些广播心理学家不同，乔伊·布朗博士不会用煎锅敲打来电者的头，并告诉他们他们所做的事情是错误的。
Joy Browne is kind but deeply pragmatic.
乔伊·布朗（Joy Browne）善良但非常务实。
There's a whole raft of principles and mottos that come up over and over, all of which Lucy has internalized.
有大量的原则和座右铭一遍又一遍地出现，所有这些都被露西内化了。
Like, "Stupid and cheerful."
就像“愚蠢而快乐”。
If somebody is trying to engage you in some sort of passive aggressive issue, you just try to be as stupid and cheerful as possible.
如果有人试图让你陷入某种消极攻击性的问题，你只需尽可能表现得愚蠢和快乐即可。
So like, if somebody comes into your kitchen and is like, "Oh, you're painting it this color?" You just go like, "Yup.
就像，如果有人走进你的厨房，然后说：“哦，你要把它漆成这个颜色吗？”你只需说：“是的。
Isn't it great?"
不是很棒吗？”
Oh.
哦。
Lucy You know?
露西 你知道吗？
Stupid and cheerful.
又傻又开朗。
It really works.
它确实有效。
My dear, this is one of those times that you're going to have to be stupid and cheerful.
亲爱的，这是你必须表现得愚蠢而快乐的时刻之一。
This, of course, is the doctor herself, talking to a 23-year-old woman named Michelle, who lives with her mom, who explains to Dr. Joy Browne that she's ready to move out.
当然，这是医生本人，正在与一位名叫米歇尔 (Michelle) 的 23 岁女性交谈，她和她的妈妈住在一起，米歇尔向乔伊·布朗医生解释说，她准备搬出去。
Yes, the difficulty is, is that she suffers from mental illness, and she is severely depressed, and she gets verbally abusive, and she yells, and I need to leave.
是的，困难是，她患有精神疾病，她患有严重的抑郁症，她会辱骂她，她会大喊大叫，我需要离开。
OK, how old is mom?
好吧，妈妈几岁了？
Ira Glass Dr. Joy Browne runs through a quick series of questions and ascertains that the mom is 55, not working, single, under therapist care, on meds.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 乔伊·布朗 (Joy Browne) 博士快速回答了一系列问题，并确定这位母亲 55 岁，没有工作，单身，接受治疗师护理，正在接受药物治疗。
Then she pivots to her advice-- stupid and cheerful.
然后她转向她的建议——愚蠢而快乐。
Equal emphasis on stupid and cheerful.
愚笨与开朗并重。
If you go in to your mom, and say, "Mom, I know this is going to really upset you, but it's time for me to leave," if you deal with the subtext, "You're abandoning me.
如果你走进你的妈妈并对你说：“妈妈，我知道这会让你很不高兴，但现在是我离开的时候了”，如果你处理好潜台词，“你正在抛弃我。
I can't believe you're doing this," you're lost, and so is she.
我不敢相信你会这么做，”你迷失了，她也是。
It's not like it benefits either of you.
这对你们双方都没有好处。
So we're not going to do that.
所以我们不会那样做。
Just be stupid and cheerful.
只要保持愚蠢和快乐即可。
OK.
好的。
Joy Browne What you need to say is, "Mom, you know what?
乔伊·布朗 你需要说的是：“妈妈，你知道吗？
I found this great apartment.
我找到了这套很棒的公寓。
Will you come and help me find some furniture?" And what you're going to have to do is decide that you're going to win the Meryl Streep award for Brooklyn, all right?
你能过来帮我找家具吗？”你要做的就是决定你要为布鲁克林赢得梅丽尔·斯特里普奖，好吗？
And you're going to say, "Mom, I'm so excited." And you're going to have to be stupid about the fact that this may be traumatic for her.
你会说：“妈妈，我太兴奋了。”你必须愚蠢地意识到这可能会给她带来创伤。
But it's not your responsibility to take care of your mom at this stage in your life.
但在你生命的这个阶段，照顾你的妈妈不是你的责任。
You can show up on the phone with whatever kind of messy, emotional or non-emotional, trivial or not trivial problem.
你可能会在电话中遇到任何混乱的、情绪化的或非情绪化的、琐碎的或不琐碎的问题。
And you hand her the Rubik's cube of that, and she would ask a few questions, and hand it back to all put together with all the colors on the right side.
你把魔方递给她，她会问几个问题，然后把它还给所有放在一起的东西，右边的所有颜色都放在一起。
Mom's gotta learn to take care of herself.
妈妈要学会照顾自己。
OK.
好的。
Joy Browne All righty?
乔伊·布朗 好吧？
Stupid, honey.
愚蠢的，亲爱的。
Stupid and cheerful, stupid and cheerful, stupid and cheerful.
愚蠢而快乐，愚蠢而快乐，愚蠢而快乐。
All right?
好的？
All right.
好的。
Ira Glass Lucy likes how encouraging Dr. Joy Browne always is, and kind of good humored.
艾拉·格拉斯·露西喜欢乔伊·布朗博士总是令人鼓舞的态度，而且很幽默。
And she's listened to her for thousands of hours, first on the radio, then on podcast.
她已经听了她数千个小时，首先是在广播中，然后是在播客上。
The show is three hours every day.
演出每天三个小时。
Now Dr. Joy Browne has such a hold over Lucy's thinking and over her heart that Lucy will say things like--
现在，乔伊·布朗博士对露西的思想和心灵的控制如此之大，以至于露西会说这样的话——
Well, you know, we didn't always agree on everything, but mostly.
嗯，你知道，我们并不总是在所有事情上都达成一致，但大部分都是如此。
The phrase "we didn't agree about everything" implies that she was in on this relationship too.
“我们并非在所有事情上都意见一致”这句话意味着她也参与了这段关系。
Well, sort of.
嗯，有点像。
Although we didn't agree on everything.
尽管我们并非在所有事情上都达成一致。
You know, she had some beliefs that I didn't believe in.
你知道，她有一些我不相信的信念。
No, again, there's no "we." Lucy I guess you're right.
不，再说一次，没有“我们”。露西 我想你是对的。
The look in your face, I said that and your feelings looked really hurt, and I suddenly felt sort of bad.
我这么说，你的表情看起来很受伤，我突然感觉有点不好。
No, don't feel bad.
不，别难过。
I mean, I guess my relationship with Dr. Joy Browne is at the intersection of incredibly lighthearted and really, really deep-seated and emotional, for me.
我的意思是，我想我和乔伊·布朗博士的关系对我来说是令人难以置信的轻松和非常非常深刻和情感的交汇点。
Like a radio call-in show psychologist, it's a low stakes, right?
就像电台来电节目心理学家一样，这是一个低风险，对吧？
Except, it's not really.
但事实并非如此。
Because people call in with real problems.
因为人们打电话来是为了解决实际问题。
And so with her, the relationship sits right in the middle of being kind of like a joke and being like a super serious part of my psyche.
因此，对她来说，这种关系既像一个笑话，又像我心灵中超级严肃的一部分。
You know?
你知道？
Yeah.
是的。
Lucy is so in tune with what Dr. Joy Browne would say in any situation that sometimes when friends and family turn to her for advice, she just doles out whatever she thinks Dr. Joy Browne would say.
露西在任何情况下都非常认同乔伊·布朗博士所说的话，有时当朋友和家人向她寻求建议时，她只是说出她认为乔伊·布朗博士会说的话。
Like, when her aunt was in a relationship where she was not getting what she wanted, very unhappy, feeling awful.
就像，当她的姨妈在恋爱时，她没有得到她想要的东西，非常不高兴，感觉很糟糕。
And I said to her, think about what the relationship is like now.
我对她说，想想现在的关系是什么样的。
Think if you knew you were never going to get any more than this, and you were never going to get any less than this out of the situation.
想一想，如果你知道从这种情况中你永远不会得到比这更多的东西，也永远不会得到比这更少的东西。
Would you stay or go?
你会留下还是走？
And if you would go, how long would you wait before you go?
如果你要去的话，你会等多久才去？
That's straight up Dr. Joy Browne.
乔伊·布朗博士说得对。
Mhm.
嗯。
Lucy And my aunt thought that that was really stellar advice, and it really helped her.
露西和我姨妈认为这真是一个很好的建议，对她很有帮助。
And then I had to admit to her that I had gotten it from someone else.
然后我不得不向她承认我是从别人那里得到的。
But she was still into it.
但她仍然热衷于此。
Lucy's called Dr. Joy Browne for advice a half dozen times over the years.
多年来，露西曾六次致电乔伊·布朗博士寻求建议。
She called her for advice the first time when she was just 21, after moving in with her boyfriend.
她第一次打电话给她寻求建议是在她21岁的时候，当时她和男朋友搬了进来。
She had never lived with a boyfriend before, and it was going badly.
她以前从未与男朋友同居过，而且相处得很糟糕。
And she did have friends she could turn to for advice, and she could call her mom, who she's really close to.
她确实有可以向她寻求建议的朋友，她可以打电话给她的妈妈，她和她的妈妈非常亲近。
But she didn't want to admit to anybody that she knew that things were going so poorly.
但她不想向任何人承认她知道事情进展得如此糟糕。
Dr. Joy Browne was the perfect anonymous friend.
乔伊·布朗博士是一位完美的匿名朋友。
This phone call was so long ago that we weren't able to find recordings of it.
这个电话是很久以前的事了，我们找不到它的录音。
Lucy says she was sitting on the floor in the hallway of the little apartment in North Carolina when she phoned.
露西说，当她打电话时，她正坐在北卡罗来纳州小公寓走廊的地板上。
You're hearing the radio show in the phone, because you have talked to the screener.
您正在通过电话收听广播节目，因为您已经与安检人员交谈过。
You've told them your question.
你已经告诉他们你的问题了。
And then you have to wait until she says your name.
然后你必须等到她说出你的名字。
Yeah, what's that like?
是啊，那是什么样子的？
Lucy It's incredibly nerve-wracking and, you know, palms sweating, and thinking about hanging up, and just wondering when it's going to happen.
露西：这真是令人难以置信的伤脑筋，你知道，手心出汗，想着挂断电话，只是想知道什么时候会发生。
She could say your name at any time.
她可以随时说出你的名字。
And then she does.
然后她就这么做了。
She says "Lucy, what's your question?" And I describe my situation, and I think that I cried a little bit.
她说：“露西，你有什么问题吗？”我描述了我的情况，我想我哭了一点。
That's my memory.
那是我的记忆。
What was her advice?
她的建议是什么？
Lucy Her advice was to leave the relationship right then.
露西 她的建议是立即结束这段关系。
How many minutes did you talk to her before she said that?
在她说这句话之前你和她聊了几分钟？
Like, was it 10, 5?
比如，是 10 还是 5？
No, maybe like 2 and 1/2.
不，也许像 2 和 1/2。
Ira Glass 2 and 1/2 minutes?
艾拉·格拉斯 2又1/2分钟？
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass Wow, that's a really sobering thing, that you could talk to a stranger for 2 and 1/2 minutes, and they're just like, "Yeah, got it.
Ira Glass 哇，这真是一件发人深省的事情，你可以和一个陌生人交谈 2 又 1/2 分钟，他们就会说，“是的，明白了。
OK, leave him."
好吧，离开他吧。”
Yeah, she said leave.
是的，她说离开。
And she said, get your own apartment, and start your own life there, and just get out of the situation.
她说，买你自己的公寓，在那里开始你自己的生活，然后摆脱困境。
It was not what I wanted to hear.
这不是我想听到的。
I wanted to be told how to fix it, you know?
我想知道如何解决它，你知道吗？
That advice to leave seemed completely impossible.
离开的建议似乎完全不可能。
It took about a year.
大约花了一年的时间。
Ira Glass In retrospect, do you think you should have taken the advice when she gave it to you?
Ira Glass 回想起来，当她给你建议时，你认为你应该采纳吗？
Yes Ira Glass Why call in to an advice show if you're not going to take the advice?
是的，艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass），如果您不打算接受建议，为什么还要参加建议节目呢？
I think, in a way, my mind went blank, and I was just shaken by her response.
我想，在某种程度上，我的大脑一片空白，我只是被她的反应震惊了。
I just thought, this person who I've come to know and trust so much?
我只是想，这个我如此了解并信任的人呢？
I don't know.
我不知道。
I was pretty shocked that she told me I should leave.
当她告诉我我应该离开时，我感到非常震惊。
Lucy called once for advice about dealing with her parents, and once for advice about a situation with her sister.
露西曾打电话询问如何与父母打交道的建议，还有一次询问有关与妹妹相处的情况的建议。
Both times she took the advice, and says it went great.
两次她都采纳了建议，并说效果很好。
One of her professors was dying.
她的一位教授快要死了。
She wanted to write him a letter saying some nice things, but wasn't sure that somebody would want to get a letter saying "I hear you're dying, and so I wrote you this letter." Dr. Joy Browne told her to send the letter.
她想给他写一封信，说一些好话，但不确定有人会想收到一封信，上面写着“我听说你快要死了，所以我给你写了这封信。”乔伊·布朗博士让她寄出这封信。
Of course send it.
当然寄啦
It's kindness.
这是仁慈。
Which she did.
她做到了。
And something else happened on that call that Lucy loved.
在那个电话中还发生了一些让露西喜欢的事情。
She called me "cookie" during that call, I remember.
我记得在那次通话中她叫我“cookie”。
Which is something that she called a lot of people from time to time.
这是她不时给很多人打电话的内容。
So it was a thrill to me.
所以这对我来说是一种兴奋。
But did she only call them cookie if she liked them?
但如果她喜欢的话，她就只能称它们为cookie吗？
Noted.
著名的。
This went on for years.
这种情况持续了好几年。
Lucy listened to Dr. Joy Browne for hours every day, and occasionally phoning her up for advice.
露西每天都会花几个小时听乔伊·布朗博士的讲话，偶尔还会打电话给她寻求建议。
And then her whole situation with Dr. Joy Browne took a turn.
然后她和乔伊·布朗博士的关系发生了转变。
This happened in just the last few years, during the time that Lucy and I had been friends.
这件事发生在最近几年，当时我和露西还是朋友。
Lucy was having some troubles, and was really pretty miserable.
露西遇到了一些麻烦，而且真的很痛苦。
And she could have called Dr. Joy Browne for advice, but she never did.
她本可以打电话给乔伊·布朗医生寻求建议，但她从未这样做。
No, actually, for the last few years, I had not been listening to her.
不，事实上，最近几年我一直没有听她说话。
I stopped listening to her, in large part because I got into several relationship situations in a row that I knew that she would totally not approve of.
我不再听她说话，很大程度上是因为我连续陷入了几次关系情境，我知道她完全不会同意。
One of them is somebody who is possessive and not so nice to her.
其中之一是占有欲很强且对她不太友善的人。
One was somebody married, separated but married.
一种是某人已婚，分居但已婚。
And I think it became too embarrassing for me to listen to her, the way that I used to.
我觉得像以前那样听她说话对我来说太尴尬了。
You mean embarrassing like you feel like you couldn't be in her presence because you knew what she would think of what you were doing?
你的意思是感到尴尬，就像你觉得你不能在她面前，因为你知道她会对你所做的事情有什么看法？
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass You felt like you knew her that well?
Ira Glass 你觉得你很了解她吗？
Yeah, I felt like if I had called her with a problem about one of these relationships, we wouldn't have even gotten to my problem I was having.
是的，我觉得如果我打电话给她提出有关其中一种关系的问题，我们甚至不会解决我所遇到的问题。
She would have, right off the bat, said well, the problem here is that you're not following the One Year Rule.
她会立即说，好吧，这里的问题是你没有遵守一年规则。
She had this thing called the One Year Rule.
她有一个叫做“一年规则”的东西。
Yeah, well, I keep telling people you need to go through a year by yourself after the breakup of an important relationship, whether it's divorce or death.
是的，我一直告诉人们，在一段重要的关系破裂后，无论是离婚还是死亡，你都需要独自度过一年。
This is Dr. Joy Browne explaining the One Year Rule to a caller.
这是乔伊·布朗博士向来电者解释一年规则。
Because you'll make different decisions based on need than you will on want.
因为你会根据需要而不是根据想要做出不同的决定。
And when you're feeling really lonely and really sad, you'll succumb to things that, if you're feeling better about yourself, you wouldn't do.
当你感到非常孤独和悲伤时，你就会屈服于一些事情，而如果你对自己感觉更好，你就不会做这些事情。
And this is a caller named Angela who phoned to thank Dr. Browne for the One Year Rule.
这是一位名叫安吉拉的来电者，她打电话来感谢布朗博士的一年规则。
You know, Dr. Joy, in the beginning, I was thinking Dr. Joy is crazy.
你知道，乔伊博士，一开始我以为乔伊博士疯了。
One year?
一年？
That's a long time.
那是很长一段时间了。
Yeah.
是的。
Angela But no, it is the greatest time I've been having all these days.
安吉拉：但是不，这是这些天来我度过的最美好的时光。
Well, that's great.
嗯，那太好了。
And you're probably a much happier person than you were a year ago, which means that you're going to be much more date-able, and you'll find somebody who is more wonderful than you would have a year ago.
你可能比一年前更快乐，这意味着你会更适合约会，而且你会找到比一年前更优秀的人。
So that's great.
那太好了。
Yes, I am super super duper happy!
是的，我超级超级开心！
Thank you very much, and God bless you.
非常感谢你，愿上帝保佑你。
So Lucy knew the score.
所以露西知道了比分。
She hadn't obeyed the One Year Rule.
她没有遵守一年规则。
The people she was with hadn't either.
和她在一起的人也没有。
And she saw the basic wisdom of the doctor's One Year Rule.
她看到了医生一年规则的基本智慧。
And I knew that she would have said like "No, no, no. This is not going to work.
我知道她会说：“不，不，不。这是行不通的。
You've got to get out of it." I think it became a lot less fun for me to listen to her because I knew that I was in a mess, you know?
你必须摆脱它。”我觉得听她说话对我来说不再那么有趣了，因为我知道我一团糟，你知道吗？
And I knew that if I had really taken her advice, I wouldn't be in that mess.
我知道如果我真的采纳了她的建议，我就不会陷入这样的困境。
Lucy was like a sinner who doesn't like stepping foot in church, because it reminds 'em just how far they'd fallen.
露西就像一个不喜欢踏入教堂的罪人，因为这提醒他们他们已经堕落了多远。
So she stayed away.
于是她就远离了。
And then, finally, not long ago, Lucy got out of that last relationship.
然后，最后，不久前，露西摆脱了最后一段关系。
She was single again.
她又恢复单身了。
And it only took a day or two after that.
此后只花了一两天的时间。
And I was in a taxi, and I suddenly thought, "I'm going to look up Dr. Joy Browne's podcast, and I'm going to start listening again.
我在出租车里，突然想到，“我要查找乔伊·布朗博士的播客，然后再开始听。
Right, because finally you could.
是的，因为你终于可以了。
Because you felt like you wouldn't feel this guilt.
因为你觉得你不会感到内疚。
Yeah, I had a clean slate.
是的，我的一切都是干净的。
Ira Glass Mhm.
艾拉·格拉斯 嗯。
So I looked her up, and I was totally shocked and horrified to find that she had just died two days before, very suddenly.
所以我查了一下她，我非常震惊和恐惧地发现她两天前刚刚去世，非常突然。
And I was really sad, and really panicked.
我真的很伤心，也很恐慌。
Like, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait.
就像，不，不，不，等等，等等，等等。
I need to-- like, what?
我需要——比如，什么？
No, no, no. I need to listen to your show.
不，不，不。我需要听你的节目。
You can't die.
你不能死。
I just was going to start listening again, and I just missed her.
我正要重新开始听，我只是想念她。
Like, I just missed her by two days.
就像，我才两天就想念她了。
She was doing her show that week.
那周她正在做她的节目。
She was totally well, and as far as anyone knew.
据任何人所知，她完全康复了。
And I was really sad.
我真的很难过。
Probably-- maybe five years.
可能——也许五年。
Ira Glass Do you feel like you let her down?
Ira Glass 你觉得你让她失望了吗？
Yeah, I felt like I'd jumped ship, and taken her for granted, and thought she would be there when I resurfaced from whatever kind of messy mess I had gotten myself into.
是的，我觉得我已经跳槽了，把她视为理所当然，并认为当我从自己陷入的混乱中重新浮出水面时，她会在那里。
You know that thing that people say, "When I just like make enough money, then I'll get my life together, when I just lose enough weight, then I'll get my life together." And I think in the period where I stopped listening to her, I was thinking like, "Once I sort all this out, I'll get back to listening to Dr. Joy and I'll resurface as the person I was before, once I clean up this mess." But I never did.
你知道人们常说的一句话：“当我想赚足够的钱时，我就会过上幸福的生活；当我减掉足够的体重时，我就会过上幸福的生活。”我想在我停止听她说话的那段时间里，我在想，“一旦我解决了所有这些问题，我就会重新听乔伊博士的课，一旦我清理了这个烂摊子，我就会像以前一样重新出现。”但我从来没有这样做过。
And then, when I resurfaced, she was gone.
然后，当我再次出现时，她已经走了。
It made her totally re-evaluate her relationship with Dr. Joy Browne.
这让她彻底重新评估了自己与乔伊·布朗博士的关系。
All those years she thought, the two of them so in agreement.
这么多年她想，他们两个是那么的默契。
She felt so close to her.
她感觉自己离她很近。
It made her realize, oh, maybe she was just kidding herself.
这让她意识到，哦，也许她只是在跟自己开玩笑。
I guess it does use to listen thinking people would call in, and they'd give their situation, and I'd just think, "Oh boy, here's the problem with what you're saying.
我想它确实可以用来倾听，认为人们会打电话来，他们会给出他们的情况，而我只是想，“哦，孩子，这就是你所说的问题。
I know what she's going to say." And then she would say it, and I was sitting back like, "Dr. Joy and I, we know the rules, and that's not going to work."
我知道她会说什么。”然后她就会说出来，而我就坐在后面，就像，“博士。乔伊和我，我们都知道规则，但那是行不通的。”
Yeah.
是的。
And it's like you and her against the losers.
这就像你和她对抗失败者。
But then you were going like, "Oh, wait a second.
但然后你就会说：“哦，等一下。
No, I'm one of the losers."
不，我是失败者之一。”
Well, I mean, losers, she had a warm heart.
嗯，我的意思是，失败者，她有一颗温暖的心。
She wouldn't use that word.
她不会用这个词。
No, but you know what I'm saying.
不，但你知道我在说什么。
They were like the people who were astray.
他们就像那些误入歧途的人一样。
And you know, I had a lot of big ideas about how I had it together.
你知道，关于如何将其整合在一起，我有很多伟大的想法。
And I was doing it wrong too.
而我也做错了。
And even though I knew better, even though I used to sit there, imagining myself near Dr. Joy Browne, I know what she would say, but I would feel better if she were here to say it.
尽管我更清楚，尽管我曾经坐在那里，想象自己在乔伊·布朗博士附近，但我知道她会说什么，但如果她在这里说出来，我会感觉更好。
Yeah.
是的。
There's a thing that people say to each other in movies that I've never, ever in my life had an impulse to say to somebody, but I do now.
电影里人们互相说的一句话是我一生中从来没有冲动对别人说的，但我现在做到了。
And that is, "Well, you carry her inside you."
那就是，“好吧，你把她带在你心里。”
Um, well, what does the other person in the movie say, then?
嗯，那么，电影中的另一个人怎么说呢？
Oh, well.
哦，好吧。
Ira Glass In the movies!
艾拉·格拉斯在电影中！
Hold on for a second.
等一下。
This is the kind of music that we play in the movie.
这就是我们在电影中播放的音乐。
Hold on.
坚持住。
Stay right there.
呆在那里。
[MUSIC PLAYING] It's going to be this kind of music.
[音乐播放] 将会是这样的音乐。
I'm going to say it to you again.
我要再对你说一遍。
Lucy, even though she's gone, you don't have to feel bad, because you carry her inside you.
露西，即使她走了，你也不必感到难过，因为你心里有她。
And then I would just say, "I guess you're right."
然后我就会说：“我想你是对的。”
Ira Glass.
艾拉·格拉斯.
That kid's got talent, right?
这小子很有天赋吧？
Our program was produced today by Stephanie Foo.
今天我们的节目由 Stephanie Foo 制作。
Our staff includes Elna Baker, Elise Bergerson, Susan Burton, Dana Chivvis, Whitney Dangerfield, Neil Drumming, Kimberly Henderson, David Kestenbaum, Chana Joffe-Walt, Seth Lind, Jonathan Menjivar, BA Parker, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
我们的员工包括 Elna Baker、Elise Bergerson、Susan Burton、Dana Chivvis、Whitney Dangerfield、Neil Drumming、Kimberly Henderson、David Kestenbaum、Chana Joffe-Walt、Seth Lind、Jonathan Menjivar、BA Parker、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Julie Whitaker 和 Diane Wu。
Our senior producer is Brian Reed.
我们的高级制片人是布莱恩·里德。
Special thanks to Eric Mennel, Louisa Gao, Bing Yen, Hamilton Madison House City Hall Senior Center, Judy Lei, Ya Yun Teng, and the Museum of Chinese in America, Joo Wai Foo, Chuck Leung, and Michael Harrison.
特别感谢 Eric Mennel、Louisa Gau、Bing Yen、Hamilton Madison House City Hall Senior Center、Judy Lei、Ya Yun Teng，以及美国华人博物馆的 Joo Wai Foo、Chuck Leung 和 Michael Harrison。
Research help from Michelle Harris and Lu Fong.
米歇尔·哈里斯和陆方的研究帮助。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Extra special thanks this week to my boss, Ira Glass.
本周要特别感谢我的老板艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)。
I assured Ira before he left.
在艾拉离开之前我向他保证。
I was like, "Absolutely, go away this week.
我当时想，“当然，这周就走吧。
It's fine.
没关系。
We'll air a re-run."
我们将重播一次。”
With all due respect, I think you're trying to trick me.
恕我直言，我认为你想欺骗我。
I'm Sean Cole.
我是肖恩·科尔。
Call your mom, and join us next week for more stories of This American Life.
打电话给你的妈妈，下周加入我们，了解更多关于《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。