618: Mr. Lie Detector - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #618 | June 9, 2017 618: Mr. Lie Detector Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 618 集 | 2017 年 6 月 9 日 618：测谎先生 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Act One: Relevant Questions Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
第一幕：相关问题 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的 Ira Glass，这就是美国生活。
I'm going to take your mind to a state of enhanced mental imagery.
我将把你的思想带入一种增强心理意象的状态。
You will clearly remember everything I tell you, and you will do everything that I tell you to do.
我告诉你的一切你都会清楚地记得，我告诉你做的一切你都会做到。
I want you to imagine being on a beautiful deserted beach.
我想让你想象一下在一个美丽的荒凉海滩上。
I want you to picture yourself lying on a beach chair, staring out at the ocean.
我希望你想象自己躺在沙滩椅上，凝视着大海。
You're watching the waves gently rolling into the shore.
你正在看着海浪轻轻地滚入海岸。
Wave after wave, gently rolling into the shore.
一波又一波，轻轻地滚入岸边。
And with each wave, you're becoming more and more relaxed, calm, and at peace.
每一次波浪，你都会变得越来越放松、平静、平和。
You can feel yourself relaxing now.
您现在可以感到自己放松了。
You're watching wave after wave gently rolling into the shore.
你会看到一波又一波的波浪轻轻地滚入海岸。
And you are now totally relaxed, calm, and at peace.
现在你完全放松、平静、平和。
I'm now going to count from one to five.
我现在要从一数到五。
And when I get to the count of five, you will remember to do what you have been trained to do, and you will be awake, alert, and absolutely confident that you will pass your polygraph test.
当我数到五时，你会记得做你受过训练的事情，你会清醒、警觉，并且绝对有信心通过测谎仪测试。
One.
一。
Two.
二。
Three.
三。
Four.
四。
Five.
五。
This is Douglas Williams, and this is part of a story created by the podcast Love + Radio, a story put together by Jacob McClelland, Ana Adlerstein, Steven Jackson, and Nick van der Kolk.
我是道格拉斯·威廉姆斯，这是播客 Love + Radio 创建的故事的一部分，该故事由雅各布·麦克莱兰、安娜·阿德勒斯坦、史蒂文·杰克逊和尼克·范德科尔克整理。
If you don't know about Love + Radio, they're masters at doing these stories that unfold and slowly reveal what they're about over time with no narration.
如果你不了解《爱情+广播》，他们是制作这些故事的大师，这些故事随着时间的推移逐渐展开并慢慢揭示它们的内容，而无需旁白。
And this story does that beautifully.
这个故事完美地做到了这一点。
And we're just going to jump in and start our show with this.
我们要开始我们的节目了。
Quick warning that we've unbeeped some curse words in this internet version of the program.
快速警告，我们已经取消了该程序的互联网版本中的一些脏话。
If you prefer a beeped version-- maybe you're listening with kids-- it's at our website.
如果您喜欢嘟嘟声版本（也许您正在和孩子们一起听），请访问我们的网站。
The story begins when the guy at the center of it, Douglas Williams, is in his 20s, and joins the police force in Oklahoma City.
故事开始于故事的中心人物道格拉斯·威廉姆斯 (Douglas Williams)，20 多岁，加入俄克拉荷马城的警察部队。
Douglas Williams I actually couldn't believe they actually paid me to do it.
道格拉斯·威廉姆斯（Douglas Williams） 我真的不敢相信他们真的付钱给我来做这件事。
I loved it so much, especially the first year.
我非常喜欢它，尤其是第一年。
They sent me to New York City for polygraph school at the National Training Center of Lie Detection in New York City.
他们把我送到纽约市国家测谎训练中心的测谎学校。
And in 1972, I became a certified polygraph expert.
1972 年，我成为一名经过认证的测谎专家。
So after that, I just was running polygraph examinations for criminal suspects, police applicants, and all internal affairs investigations.
所以在那之后，我只是对犯罪嫌疑人、警察申请人进行测谎检查，以及所有内部事务调查。
When you're working in internal affairs, you've narrowed your circle of friends down to a big fat zero because the police officers are all frightened of you, too, because they've seen you come into their little break room prior to their shift change.
当你从事内务工作时，你已经把你的朋友圈缩小到了一个大零，因为警察也都害怕你，因为他们在换班之前看到你进入他们的小休息室。
And I walk out then walked in there quite a few times, and they'd be in there shooting pool and having fun, talking to one another, and I'd walk in and it'd get dead silent.
我走出去然后又走进那里好几次，他们会在那里打台球，玩得很开心，互相交谈，而我走进去，那里会变得一片寂静。
Everybody would look at me.
每个人都会看着我。
I'd run two or three tests a day.
我每天会进行两到三个测试。
Some days I didn't have any at all to run.
有些日子我根本没有什么可跑的。
But that's all I did was run polygraph tests.
但我所做的就是进行测谎仪测试。
I became very cognizant of the fact that fear has a very distinct smell.
我开始非常清楚地意识到恐惧有一种非常明显的气味。
I've heard it described as a mixture of shit and spinach, and that's a pretty close description.
我听说它被描述为粪便和菠菜的混合物，这是一个非常接近的描述。
It truly does have a very distinct odor.
它确实有一种非常独特的气味。
The smell lingered in my office.
我的办公室里弥漫着这种气味。
I smelled it every day.
我每天都闻到它的味道。
It was there when I closed up the office at night.
当我晚上关门时它就在那里。
It was there when I opened up the office in the morning, almost like a fog or something.
当我早上打开办公室时，它就在那里，几乎像雾一样。
I got really good at doing what I did.
我真的很擅长做我所做的事情。
I mean, I could literally scare the hell out of people with that thing.
我的意思是，我真的可以用那东西吓死人。
For instance, one of the props they told you to use was a little plastic heart like the doctors have in their office that comes apart and shows the left ventricle and the right ventricle and the cutaways and what-have-you.
例如，他们告诉你使用的道具之一是一个小塑料心脏，就像医生在他们的办公室里一样，它可以拆开并显示左心室和右心室以及剖面图和你有什么。
And it gets you that, and leave that sitting on your desk.
它可以让你得到它，然后把它留在你的桌子上。
When you get into your interrogation, you tell everybody that comes in, you tell them, OK, now, when you lie, you'll not be able to control yourself.
当你接受审讯时，你告诉每个进来的人，你告诉他们，好吧，现在，当你撒谎时，你将无法控制自己。
And you reach over there and you get that little heart, and you take it apart and you put one part in your left hand and one part in your right hand.
你把手伸到那里，你得到那颗小心，你把它拆开，把一部分放在你的左手上，另一部分放在你的右手上。
And you start getting them, and you say, OK, now, you know when you lie-- when you lie, your heart's going to start beating faster and faster and faster and faster and faster.
你开始明白这些，你说，好吧，现在，你知道什么时候撒谎——当你撒谎时，你的心脏会开始跳得越来越快、越来越快、越来越快。
And you slam those pieces of heart back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, faster and faster and faster, and you will not be able to control it.
你将那些心碎片来回、来回、来回、越来越快、越来越快，你将无法控制它。
You will not be able to lie to me without your heart going bam!
你不可能对我撒谎而不心跳加速！
Bam!
嘭！
Bam!
嘭！
Bam!
嘭！
Bam!
嘭！
Bam!
嘭！
Bam!
嘭！
It was just so dramatic, but I tried it a few times.
这太戏剧性了，但我尝试了几次。
It actually worked pretty good.
实际上效果很好。
It got people's attention.
它引起了人们的注意。
I don't know if it was because of the demonstration or because they just thought, man, I'm talking to a crazy man here.
我不知道是因为示威还是因为他们只是想，伙计，我正在和一个疯子说话。
It's a damn good interrogation technique.
这是一种非常好的审讯技术。
Since we can't beat the hell out of people physically, let's just beat the hell out of them psychologically and coerce them into a confession.
既然肉体上打不垮人，那就从心理上把人打垮，逼供吧。
So that's what the polygraph is.
这就是测谎仪。
It's a psychological billy club that will coerce a person into a confession.
这是一个心理比利俱乐部，会强迫一个人认罪。
It's not a lie detector, and we're stupid if we use it as such, but there are occasions when it's real good to put pressure to bear on a criminal to get a confession.
它不是测谎仪，如果我们这样使用它，我们就很愚蠢，但有时向罪犯施加压力以使其招供确实是件好事。
Yeah.
是的。
Let me just-- so basically, what we have here is a very antiquated, very crude instrument.
让我简单说一下——基本上，我们这里拥有的是一种非常陈旧、非常粗糙的工具。
It was invented in 1922, and it hasn't changed significantly since it was invented in 1922.
它是1922年发明的，自从1922年发明以来，它并没有发生太大的变化。
The polygraph test itself-- poly meaning many, and graphos meaning tracings, is what the polygraph stands for.
测谎仪测试本身——poly意思是“很多”，graphos意思是“追踪”，这就是测谎仪的含义。
So the many tracings that the polygraph records are your blood pressure, your pulse rate, sweat activity on your hand, and your breathing.
因此，测谎仪记录的许多痕迹是您的血压、脉搏率、手上的汗液活动和呼吸。
Next thing we're pulling out here is GSR electrodes.
接下来我们要拿出的是 GSR 电极。
They record what's known as the galvanic skin response, which is basically just increase or decrease in the sweat activity in your hand.
他们记录所谓的皮肤电反应，这基本上只是手上汗水活动的增加或减少。
This here is just a cardio cuff, similar to what the doctor uses to test your blood pressure in a doctor's office.
这只是一个有氧袖带，类似于医生在医生办公室用来测试血压的袖带。
So what we have here is a machine that can watch you breathe, watch two fingers on your right hand sweat, and watch your heartbeat.
所以我们这里有一台机器，可以观察你的呼吸，观察你右手的两个手指出汗，观察你的心跳。
So the more heinous the crime under investigation, the more likely an innocent person is going to fail.
因此，调查的罪行越令人发指，无辜者就越有可能失败。
Jake, if you're accused of molesting the 11-year-old neighbor girl, Sally, you're already in a state of shock because just the accusation alone's enough to ruin you.
杰克，如果你被指控猥亵 11 岁的邻居女孩莎莉，你已经处于震惊状态，因为光是指控就足以毁了你。
You're sitting there thinking, oh Lord, what will happen to me?
你坐在那里想，主啊，我会发生什么？
I mean, what about my job, my neighbors, my friends, my family?
我的意思是，我的工作、我的邻居、我的朋友、我的家人呢？
This is just unbelievable.
这简直令人难以置信。
So you're stressed to the max already.
所以你的压力已经达到了极限。
You're already starting to sweat just thinking about it.
光是想想就已经开始出汗了。
I'm already sweating.
我已经满头大汗了。
Douglas Williams Exactly.
道格拉斯·威廉姆斯 没错。
Just thinking about this situation has already got you stressed out, and it's just an imaginary situation.
光是想想这种情况就已经让你感到压力重重，而且这只是一个想象的情况。
Imagine if it were real.
想象一下如果这是真的。
When did your doubts in the polygraph first begin to manifest?
您对测谎仪的怀疑是什么时候开始显现出来的？
I'd been at it for a while.
我已经这么做了一段时间了。
And of course, I knew I could control my breathing, but I never could figure out for sure how to control the cardio and blood pressure and the GSR until a friend of mine came in, talking about the pucker factor and tighten up the anal sphincter muscle when he was under stress.
当然，我知道我可以控制自己的呼吸，但我一直无法确定如何控制心肺功能、血压和 GSR，直到我的一个朋友进来，谈论他在压力下时的皱褶因素和收紧肛门括约肌。
And so after he left, I just hooked myself up to the polygraph and pumped up the air in the cuff and tightened up my anal sphincter muscle like I was trying to stop a bowel movement, and lo and behold, there was a most gigantic, wonderful, naturally-occurring cardio rise accompanied by a GSR rise.
所以在他离开后，我把自己挂在测谎仪上，抽出袖带中的空气，收紧我的肛门括约肌，就像我试图阻止排便一样，你瞧，伴随着 GSR 的上升，心脏出现了最巨大、奇妙、自然发生的上升。
So just by simply tightening up your anal sphincter muscle, you can cause a reaction at will.
所以只要简单地收紧肛门括约肌，就可以随意引起反应。
Then all you had to do was figure out the appropriate time to do it.
然后你所要做的就是找出合适的时间去做这件事。
It takes an a-hole with a little training to beat an a-hole with a little training.
需要经过一些训练才能击败一个洞。
Shortly thereafter, I quit.
此后不久，我就辞职了。
I wrote a letter of resignation.
我写了一封辞职信。
I was a cryptographer in the military studying cryptography, so I started each sentence with a different letter, just as my own little private joke.
我是一名在军队学习密码学的密码学家，所以我每个句子都用不同的字母开头，就像我自己的私人小笑话一样。
If you looked at the first letter of each sentence in my resignation letter, it spells out "bullshit."
如果你看一下我辞职信中每句话的第一个字母，你会发现它是“胡说八道”。
And I commenced my crusade.
我开始了我的十字军东征。
I bought a polygraph instrument.
我买了一个测谎仪。
I got an old 1967 Chevy Panel Truck.
我有一辆 1967 年旧雪佛兰面板卡车。
I rigged it up, where I could live in it, and made me a little fold-down bed, porta-potty.
我把它装起来，让我可以住在里面，还给我做了一张折叠小床，还有便携式便盆。
Put me in some water supply.
给我一些水源。
Put me in a little Coleman camp stove and a little homemade desk that I could fold my bed out and put my little homemade desk up there and put my typewriter on there.
把我放在一个科尔曼小野营炉和一张自制的小桌子里，我可以把床折叠起来，把我的自制小桌子放在那里，然后把打字机放在那里。
So I would just live in my little '67 Chevy Panel Truck and work construction jobs enough to keep body and soul together.
所以我就住在我的 67 年雪佛兰面板卡车里，从事建筑工作，足以让身体和灵魂保持在一起。
And I would just moved from city to city.
我会从一个城市搬到另一个城市。
Started down in Houston, and then Dallas, and Fort Worth, and Indianapolis, then Chicago, and various other places.
从休斯顿开始，然后是达拉斯、沃斯堡、印第安纳波利斯、芝加哥和其他各个地方。
Every city had their own talk show host.
每个城市都有自己的脱口秀主持人。
And then back then, out in front of every convenience store, there used to be a whole bank of payphones.
那时候，每家便利店前面都有一整排公用电话。
I conducted hundreds of radio talk shows standing in a phone booth outside 7-Eleven clerks, swatting off mosquitoes and what-have-you.
我站在 7-11 便利店店员外的电话亭里，主持了数百场广播脱口秀节目，赶走蚊子和其他什么东西。
Every time I went on a radio talk show, I was a great success.
每次我上广播脱口秀节目时，我都取得了巨大的成功。
I'd light up the phones like crazy.
我会疯狂地打开手机。
Everybody had a horror story about a polygraph test.
每个人都有一个关于测谎仪测试的恐怖故事。
Then I would put on seminars.
然后我会举办研讨会。
The seminars would be very simple.
研讨会将非常简单。
I'd done them in union halls, churches, people's living rooms.
我在工会大厅、教堂、人们的客厅里做过这些。
I've had as low as five people and as high as close to 5,000.
我的团队少则有 5 人，多则接近 5,000 人。
I have a polygraph up there.
我那里有测谎仪。
I'd say, OK, here's the deal.
我会说，好吧，事情就是这样。
I'm going to teach you, in five minutes or less, how to control every tracing on this polygraph chart.
我将在五分钟或更短的时间内教您如何控制测谎仪图表上的每条痕迹。
Then I'd look around the audience and I'd find the one who had the most skeptical look on their face, and I'd point to them and I'd say, you don't believe a damn word I'm saying, do you?
然后我会环顾观众，找到脸上最怀疑的人，然后我指着他们说，我说的这些话你们一个都不相信，是吗？
They'd kind of shrug or something.
他们会耸耸肩什么的。
And then I'd say, come up here.
然后我会说，到这里来。
Come up here.
到这里来吧。
Then, OK, here how the photograph works.
那么，好吧，这就是照片的工作原理。
OK.
好的。
Douglas Williams Come over here and get you hooked up to this machine.
道格拉斯·威廉姆斯（Douglas Williams）过来，让你连接到这台机器。
Just lean forward and raise both arms.
只需向前倾并举起双臂即可。
Let me get finished hooking up here and we'll-- so what we're going to do today is, I'm going to set you down here on this little chair and I'm going to hook you up to this so-called lie detector.
让我完成这里的连接，我们今天要做的是，我要把你放在这把小椅子上，然后我要把你连接到这个所谓的测谎仪上。
And in just a matter of a few minutes, I will teach you how to control every tracing on the polygraph chart by simply using what I call mental imagery.
在短短几分钟内，我将教您如何通过简单地使用我所说的心理意象来控制测谎仪图表上的每条痕迹。
So we'll explain more about that here in a minute.
我们稍后将对此进行更多解释。
Let me get around here and hook up this--
让我到这里来把这个连接起来——
In order for you to pass this test, you've got to-- telling the truth has nothing to do with it.
为了让你通过这个测试，你必须——说实话与这无关。
You've got to produce for the polygraph examiner what he expects to see from a truthful person on this chart.
你必须向测谎仪检查员提供他希望从这张图表上从诚实的人那里看到的信息。
The premise behind the polygraph is that, if you are lying, you will have a reaction on the relevant questions and no reaction on the control questions.
测谎仪背后的前提是，如果你撒谎，你将对相关问题有反应，而对控制问题没有反应。
Now, what are the relevant questions?
现在，相关问题是什么？
Well, the relevant questions are obviously those that pertain to the pointed issue.
嗯，相关问题显然是与所指出的问题有关的问题。
For instance, if the test is about whether you leaked the information to The Washington Post, then the questions would be pertaining to that leak.
例如，如果测试是关于您是否将信息泄露给《华盛顿邮报》，那么问题将与该泄露有关。
Did you tell The Washington Post reporter about the president's speech?
您是否向《华盛顿邮报》记者透露了总统的讲话？
Do you know anyone who had access to the president's speech that may have given it to The Washington Post?
您知道有谁接触过总统的演讲并可能将其交给了《华盛顿邮报》吗？
On and on.
不断地。
They will then intersperse questions called control questions.
然后他们会穿插一些称为控制问题的问题。
The control questions are innocuous questions that have nothing to do with the pointed issue.
控制问题是与所指出的问题无关的无害问题。
They are completely irrelevant.
它们完全无关。
Have you ever lied to anyone in authority to keep from getting in trouble?
你是否曾经为了避免陷入麻烦而对任何有权有势的人撒过谎？
Have you ever stolen anything?
你偷过东西吗？
All those types of irrelevant control questions.
所有这些类型的不相关的控制问题。
And then what I want you to do is just basically relax on the relevant questions and then show me a nice little reaction-- think of something frightening-- on the control questions.
然后我希望你做的就是在相关问题上基本上放松，然后在控制问题上向我展示一个不错的小反应 - 想想一些可怕的事情。
So here we go.
那么我们开始吧。
I want you just to close your eyes and relax.
我希望你闭上眼睛放松一下。
I want you to picture yourself lying on a beach chair, staring out at the ocean.
我希望你想象自己躺在沙滩椅上，凝视着大海。
You're watching the waves gently rolling into the shore.
你正在看着海浪轻轻地滚入海岸。
Wave after wave gently rolling into the shore.
一波又一波，轻轻地滚向岸边。
Now, I instruct you to do this.
现在，我指导你这样做。
When you hear the relevant questions and label the relevant questions and answer the relevant questions, you will only picture yourself lying on this beautiful beach, and you will only see the waves gently rolling into the shore.
当你听到相关问题、标注相关问题、回答相关问题时，你只会想象自己躺在这片美丽的海滩上，只会看到海浪轻轻地滚入岸边。
Relevant questions, wave after wave.
相关问题一波又一波。
Relevant questions, gently rolling into the shore.
相关的疑问，轻轻滚入岸边。
Relevant questions, totally relaxed, calm, and at peace.
相关问题，完全放松、平静、平和。
Open your eyes.
睁开你的眼睛。
You know that relaxed feeling you've got right now?
你知道你现在有那种轻松的感觉吗？
Yes.
是的。
Douglas Williams The way to trigger that is to simply label the questions as relevant questions in your mind before you answer them.
道格拉斯·威廉姆斯（Douglas Williams）触发这一点的方法是在回答问题之前在你的脑海中将问题标记为相关问题。
And then you've got to be able to manipulate a reaction on the control question.
然后你必须能够操纵对控制问题的反应。
So in order to manipulate a reaction on a control question, I want you to live through your most frightening experience or your worst fear on the control questions, OK?
因此，为了操纵对控制问题的反应，我希望你经历对控制问题最可怕的经历或最恐惧的经历，好吗？
What kind of frightening scenario are you going to run through your mind?
你的脑海里会浮现什么样的可怕场景？
Going spelunking and losing my flashlight.
去洞穴探险，手电筒丢了。
Oh, that would do it.
哦，这样就可以了。
I would absolutely-- there would be claw marks.
我绝对会——会有爪痕。
My fingernails would be gone, and I'd be stark raving mad in a matter of about five minutes.
我的指甲就会消失，大约五分钟后我就会发疯。
OK, so that's what you're going to do.
好的，这就是你要做的。
Now, what we're going to do instead of asking you actual questions, I'm just going to say, "relevant," and you'll think "relevant" in your mind and answer yes.
现在，我们要做的不是问你实际的问题，我只是说“相关”，你会在脑海中思考“相关”并回答“是”。
And then I'm going to say, "control," and you'll think "control" in your mind and answer no on the control questions, OK?
然后我会说“控制”，你会在脑海中想到“控制”并对控制问题回答“否”，好吗？
OK.
好的。
Now we're going to put some air in the cuff here.
现在我们要在袖口中注入一些空气。
And then we're going to get this show on the road.
然后我们将让这个节目上路。
Above all else, the devil hates to be mocked, and I'm mocking him.
最重要的是，魔鬼讨厌被嘲笑，而我正在嘲笑他。
I'm showing them for the frauds and the con men that they are, and they despise me for it.
我向他们展示了他们的欺诈和骗子的本质，他们因此鄙视我。
The things that motivated me to stop using this and start fighting it were in part my guilt for having done it and trying to make restitution for all that I'd done, but also the knowledge that people were being absolutely destroyed by this in so many ways.
促使我停止使用它并开始与之抗争的部分原因是我对自己所做的事情感到内疚并试图赔偿我所做的一切，但也因为我知道人们在很多方面都被它彻底摧毁了。
I used to hear them brag in their polygraph meetings that, well, I hit the local drugstore for 50 tests to fail two openings.
我常常听到他们在测谎仪会议上吹嘘说，我去当地的药店做了 50 次测试，但两次都没有通过。
What that means is they've called 48 other people liars when they may or may not have been lying just so that they can continue to run polygraph tests at $250 a whack.
这意味着他们称其他 48 个人为骗子，而这些人可能撒谎也可能没有撒谎，只是为了继续以每次 250 美元的价格进行测谎测试。
Polygraph operators were just ripping people off and destroying people's lives just so that they could unjustly enrich themselves.
测谎仪操作者只是在欺骗人们并破坏人们的生活，以便他们能够不公正地中饱私囊。
In 1985, I was finally invited to go testify in Congress.
1985年，我终于被邀请去国会作证。
For the consideration of the bill HR 1212, which the clerk will report by title.
为了审议 HR 1212 法案，书记员将按标题报告该法案。
A bill to prevent the denial of employment opportunities by prohibiting the use of lie detectors by employers--
一项通过禁止雇主使用测谎仪来防止剥夺就业机会的法案——
There was a big gallery.
有一个大画廊。
A lot of news people and stuff back there and a lot of spectators and stuff.
那里有很多新闻人物和其他东西，还有很多观众和其他东西。
And during the first two or three testimonies, there was a hubbub in the back, kind of like a murmuring and people talking to one another like they weren't paying attention because they were all spouting the same old company line and everything.
在前两三个证词中，后面有一阵喧闹，有点像低声说话，人们互相交谈，好像他们没有注意，因为他们都在滔滔不绝地讲着同样的公司老话和一切。
This is a rights vote, and what separates us from the Soviet Union is a debate that's going on in this House today.
这是一次权利投票，而我们与苏联的区别在于今天众议院正在进行的辩论。
And so I start.
所以我开始了。
And I still remember how I started.
我仍然记得我是如何开始的。
I said, my name is Douglas Gene Williams, and I plead guilty to crimes against humanity.
我说，我叫道格拉斯·吉恩·威廉姆斯，我承认犯有反人类罪。
I was a right-wing terrorist.
我是一名右翼恐怖分子。
I tortured thousands of people, documented more confessions than most Gestapo agents, violated countless constitutional rights, and had absolutely no regard for human dignity.
我折磨了成千上万的人，比大多数盖世太保特工记录了更多的口供，侵犯了无数的宪法权利，并且完全不尊重人的尊严。
I was a well-trained terrorist.
我是一名训练有素的恐怖分子。
And my weapon of choice was the polygraph.
我选择的武器是测谎仪。
And I noticed, as I was going through that, the murmuring stopped.
我注意到，当我经历这一切时，低语声停止了。
It became dead silent.
四周一片死寂。
And then I started with the rest of my testimony.
然后我开始讲述我的其余证词。
And I sat there and waxed eloquent for quite some time.
我坐在那里滔滔不绝地讲了好一会儿。
Now, I remember when I finished testifying, there was a horrific uproar from the crowd.
现在，我记得当我完成作证时，人群中爆发出可怕的骚动。
Flashbulbs going off, people saying, we want to interview you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
闪光灯亮了，人们说，我们想采访你，等等，等等，等等。
It was amazing.
太棒了。
And then here comes Chairman Martinez, wading through the crowd.
然后马丁内斯主席从人群中走过来。
Then he said, we've never had a polygraph operator come up and testify to the truth of the problems with the polygraph.
然后他说，我们从未有测谎仪操作员出现并证明测谎仪问题的真相。
And he said, I really think this is the missing element that will enable us to get this bill passed into law.
他说，我真的认为这是使我们能够使这项法案通过成为法律所缺少的要素。
It was just unbelievable.
这真是令人难以置信。
That testimony there led to me going on CBS Night Watch and, just a few months after that, going on CBS 60 Minutes and radio talk shows.
那里的证词让我上了哥伦比亚广播公司的《守夜人》节目，几个月后，我又上了哥伦比亚广播公司的《60分钟》和广播脱口秀节目。
It was an unbelievable response.
这是一个令人难以置信的回应。
Just how easy is it to lie and get away with it?
说谎并逃脱惩罚是多么容易的事情呢？
And is it possible to beat a lie detector test?
有可能通过测谎仪测试吗？
It's a sad, sick joke, this antiquated last vestige of witchcraft.
这是一个悲伤、恶心的笑话，这是古老的巫术的最后遗迹。
Doug Williams, a former police sergeant and polygrapher, has performed more than 6,000 tests.
道格·威廉姆斯 (Doug Williams) 是一名前警长和测谎仪，已经进行了 6,000 多次测试。
He knows as much about lie detector tests as anyone.
他和任何人一样了解测谎仪测试。
And he says they don't work.
他说它们不起作用。
Well, Jack, it would be unethical to tell you exactly how to beat it.
好吧，杰克，告诉你如何打败它是不道德的。
But the bottom line is that you can control it with breathing and the tightening of certain muscles.
但最重要的是，你可以通过呼吸和收紧某些肌肉来控制它。
It sounds like we're about to run out, but I felt like there was finally a very real chance of destroying this terribly abusive, evil industry.
听起来我们快要耗尽了，但我觉得终于有机会摧毁这个极其虐待、邪恶的行业了。
And I was successful in doing that to a large part in 1988.
1988 年我在很大程度上成功地做到了这一点。
The Employee Polygraph Protection Act was passed.
《雇员测谎仪保护法》获得通过。
And it put hundreds and hundreds of polygraph examiners out of business.
这使得成百上千的测谎仪检查员失业。
Jacob Mcclelland Where were you when you heard that that was going to become law?
当雅各布·麦克莱兰听说这将成为法律时，你在哪里？
I was laying on the couch, and I was watching the news.
我躺在沙发上，看着新闻。
Lie detectors.
测谎仪。
They've been around for a long time now, 75 years.
他们已经存在很长时间了，75 年了。
And it said-- Tom Brokaw But a majority of states don't allow--
它说——汤姆·布罗考但大多数州不允许——
--the Senate passed into law in the Employee Polygraph Protection Act, which prohibits the use of the polygraph in the private sector.
——参议院通过了《雇员测谎仪保护法》，该法案禁止在私营部门使用测谎仪。
It is now a federal crime if an employer requires an employee to submit to a polygraph examination.
现在，如果雇主要求雇员接受测谎仪检查，则属于联邦犯罪。
It was almost like I was picked up off of that couch and just raised above the heads of these millions of people who no longer had to be subjected to this trauma, and that I was just being held up there, and now I could live.
就好像我被从沙发上抱起来，举到了数百万人的头顶上，他们不再需要遭受这种创伤，我只是被放在那里，现在我可以生活了。
It was a physical sensation as well as an emotional and mental sensation.
这是一种身体上的感觉，也是一种情感和精神上的感觉。
I could feel myself literally physically being lifted up off of that couch.
我能感觉到自己的身体被从沙发上举了起来。
It was almost as though I could hear the cheers and the laughter and the joy coming from all these people.
我仿佛能听到所有这些人发出的欢呼声、笑声和欢乐声。
It was an amazing experience.
这是一次奇妙的经历。
If you'll look back in history, anybody that's ever done anything-- and I'm not putting myself in their shoes or elevating myself to their status at all-- but like Solzhenitsyn or Mandela or some of the other ones who had spent their life in protesting and dissidence-- and I'm reminded of that picture of the Chinese man in Tiananmen Square a number of years ago.
如果你回顾历史，任何曾经做过任何事情的人——我不是把自己放在他们的立场上，也不是把自己提升到他们的地位——而是像索尔仁尼琴或曼德拉或其他一些一生都在抗议和持不同政见的人——我想起了几年前天安门广场上那个中国人的照片。
There he stood, hand up, stop, hand up in front of the tank, whole line of tanks.
他站在那里，举起手来，停下来，举起手来，站在一排坦克前面。
Now, he knew that wasn't going to end well for him.
现在，他知道这对他来说不会有好结果。
He knew that was not a rational act.
他知道这不是一个理性的行为。
But something inside of him compelled him to stand up in front of that tank and raise his hand in protest, and I can totally relate to that.
但他内心深处的某种力量迫使他站在坦克前举手抗议，我完全能理解这一点。
I was charging windmills.
我正在给风车充电。
I mean Don Quixote was mentally healthy compared to me.
我的意思是，与我相比，堂吉诃德的心理健康。
I really did.
我真的做到了。
I looked at myself as a guerrilla soldier, waging a one-man war against what I saw and still see as an oppressive, abusive industry.
我把自己视为一名游击队员，对我所看到的、现在仍然认为是压迫性、虐待性的行业发动一场单人战争。
And I vowed to myself that I would do whatever it took, for as long as it took, to destroy that oppressive industry.
我向自己发誓，我将尽一切努力，只要需要，就能摧毁这个压迫性的行业。
In 1996, the internet was just beginning to get started and I registered the domain name polygraph.com.
1996年，互联网刚刚起步，我注册了域名polygraph.com。
I am the first one to ever put what they call an ebook on the internet.
我是第一个将电子书放到互联网上的人。
I charged $47.45 each, and I sold in excess of $200,000 worth of books every year for about--
我每本收费 47.45 美元，每年我售出的书籍价值超过 200,000 美元，价格约为——
My name is Doug Williams, and I'm the only licensed polygraph examiner to ever tell the truth about the so-called lie detector.
我的名字叫道格·威廉姆斯，我是唯一一位有执照的测谎仪检查员，能够说出所谓测谎仪的真相。
Before you take a polygraph test, you must get properly prepared.
在进行测谎仪测试之前，您必须做好适当的准备。
Remember, failing to prepare is simply preparing to fail.
请记住，不做好准备就等于准备失败。
So go to the store page of this website, get my manual and online video or DVD, look them over a few times--
所以去这个网站的商店页面，获取我的手册和在线视频或DVD，多看几遍——
And then, I guess by popular demand, people kept calling me and writing me and emailing me and saying, man, I understand what you're saying in the manual, but I need to know for sure that I can pass this test.
然后，我想根据大众的需求，人们不断地打电话给我、写信给我、给我发电子邮件说，伙计，我明白你在手册中所说的内容，但我需要确定我可以通过这个测试。
This is the only hurdle I have to pass.
这是我必须克服的唯一障碍。
I said, well, I've got my own polygraph.
我说，好吧，我有自己的测谎仪。
I'll just set up my own little deal and bring them in and let them practice on it and make sure they know what they're doing.
我会制定我自己的小协议，然后把他们带进来，让他们练习并确保他们知道自己在做什么。
It worked out real good for everybody.
这对每个人来说都非常好。
I was making a lot of money and they were getting their jobs that they went for.
我赚了很多钱，他们也得到了他们想要的工作。
So yeah, I did that for about 14 years, all the way up to the time I was thrown in prison.
是的，我这样做了大约 14 年，一直到我被投入监狱。
Jacob Mcclelland But by this point, the Employee Polygraph Protection Act was already in place.
雅各布·麦克莱兰 但此时，《员工测谎保护法》已经到位。
Why continue with that fight?
为什么还要继续这场战斗？
It wasn't a fight.
这不是一场战斗。
It was a service at that point because people had to take a polygraph test to get every kind of job with the police department, intelligence agencies, the Secret Service, on and on and on, and they knew that it was a joke.
当时这是一项服务，因为人们必须接受测谎仪测试才能获得警察部门、情报机构、特勤局等各种工作，而且他们知道这是一个笑话。
So yeah, it was a service.
是的，这是一项服务。
And it was still somewhat of a crusade because I would love to see, and I have advocated that we expand the Employee Polygraph Protection Act to protect all employees, not just private employees.
这仍然有点像一场十字军东征，因为我很乐意看到，而且我主张我们扩大《雇员测谎保护法》以保护所有雇员，而不仅仅是私人雇员。
Jacob Mcclelland Would folks come here to Norman to come to your training or would you go to them?
雅各布·麦克莱兰 人们会来诺曼参加你的训练还是你会去他们那里？
Both.
两个都。
Most of them, by far, came here because I hate to fly, so I would charge an exorbitant amount of money if I had to go somewhere else, so most of them came here.
到目前为止，他们中的大多数人来到这里是因为我讨厌坐飞机，所以如果我必须去其他地方，我会收取高昂的费用，所以他们中的大多数人都来到这里。
$1,000 if they'd come to me, $5,000 if I have to go to them.
如果他们来找我，我就付 1,000 美元；如果我必须去找他们，就付 5,000 美元。
Was there anybody-- did you ever have a client who could never figure it out?
你有没有遇到过永远无法弄清楚的客户？
Who could never learn the techniques?
谁永远学不会这些技术？
No. Well, you just saw.
不，嗯，你刚刚看到了。
What's to learn?
学什么？
What's to learn here?
这里要学什么？
Can you think of losing your flashlight when you're spelunking?
当你进行洞穴探险时，你会想到丢失手电筒吗？
Can you think about laying on the beach?
你可以考虑躺在沙滩上吗？
Can you do those two things, Jacob?
雅各布，你能做到这两件事吗？
Oh, whoa, I don't know.
哦，哇，我不知道。
That's pretty hard there.
那里很难。
Let me see.
让我看看。
Think I'll be able to do that?
你认为我能做到吗？
Yeah.
是的。
The United States of America versus Douglas G.
美利坚合众国 VS 道格拉斯·G.
Williams, a dramatic reading.
威廉姆斯，一本戏剧性的读物。
"First Undercover Operation." "On or about October 15, 2012, Undercover A placed a telephone call to Williams' telephone number listed on the Williams' website, which connected Williams to his personal cellular telephone."
“第一次卧底行动。” “2012 年 10 月 15 日左右，卧底 A 拨打了威廉姆斯网站上列出的威廉姆斯的电话号码，该号码将威廉姆斯连接到了他的个人手机。”
It was a series of calls, actually, over a period of days.
实际上，这是几天来的一系列电话。
"Undercover A told Williams that he was an inspector at an airport and was under investigation for allowing a friend to pass through customs with contraband.
“卧底A告诉威廉姆斯，他是机场的检查员，因允许朋友携带违禁品通过海关而受到调查。
Williams promised to assist Undercover A to get ready and told Undercover A, 'There's not going to be one problem at all.' Undercover A informed Williams that he intended to lie to investigators about his involvement in illegal smuggling."
威廉姆斯承诺协助卧底 A 做好准备，并告诉卧底 A：“根本不会有任何问题。”卧底 A 告诉威廉姆斯，他打算就自己参与非法走私一事向调查人员撒谎。”
And he just kept calling and kept calling.
他就一直打电话，一直打电话。
He was the first-- the only-- the first one-- only one that had ever come out and said to me that he intended to lie.
他是第一个——唯一一个——第一个——唯一一个站出来对我说他打算撒谎的人。
Nobody else had ever said anything like that.
没有人说过这样的话。
"Williams chastised Undercover A, saying, 'What the fuck do you think you're doing, dumbass?
“威廉姆斯斥责卧底 A，说：‘你他妈以为你在做什么，笨蛋？
Do you think you have like a lawyer confidentiality with me?' Williams continued, 'I haven't lived this long and fucked with the government this long and done such controversial shit and got away with it by being a dumbass.' Williams then threatened not to conduct the training for Undercover A, stating, 'I don't know if you've got sense enough to keep your damn mouth shut.'"
你认为你像律师一样对我保密吗？威廉姆斯继续说道，“我还没有活这么久，和政府打交道这么久，做了这么有争议的事情，却因为是个傻瓜而逃脱了惩罚。”威廉姆斯随后威胁不会为卧底 A 进行训练，并表示，“我不知道你是否有足够的理智来闭嘴。”
He was so pathetic, his pleading voice.
他那恳求的声音真是太可怜了。
And he kept calling me back and kept pleading and kept pleading and kept pleading.
他一直给我回电话，一直恳求，一直恳求，一直恳求。
"After Undercover A asked if there was any way Williams would train him, Williams stated, 'I'm just working on the assumption that you're telling the truth.'"
“在卧底 A 问威廉姆斯是否有任何方法可以训练他后，威廉姆斯说，‘我只是假设你说的是实话。’”
See, that protects me.
看，这保护了我。
You don't have to turn around and say, yeah, like I told you, I'm a lying son of a bitch.
你不必转身说，是的，就像我告诉过你的那样，我是个撒谎的混蛋。
What the fuck was the reason for that, unless you wanted it on the record that I was knowingly teaching someone how to lie and cheat?
这他妈的原因是什么，除非你想记录我在故意教别人如何撒谎和欺骗？
About three hours later, I called him back and I said, you are a believer, right?
大约三个小时后，我给他回电话，我说，你是信徒，对吗？
He said, yes.
他说，是的。
And I said, well, I'll tell you what.
我说，好吧，我会告诉你什么。
I'll help you out here because I just don't want to see you have to suffer for one mistake and be accused of things that you didn't do.
我会在这里帮助你，因为我只是不想看到你因为一个错误而受苦，并因为你没有做过的事情而受到指责。
And so--
所以——
"On or about October 27, 2012, Williams met Undercover A at a hotel in Arlington, Virginia, for private, in-person training.
“2012 年 10 月 27 日左右，威廉姆斯在弗吉尼亚州阿灵顿的一家酒店会见了卧底 A，进行私人面对面培训。
Williams stated, 'Now that we're alone in private, tell me what this is all about.
威廉姆斯说道：“既然我们私下里单独相处，请告诉我这到底是怎么回事。
First thing's first.
第一件事是第一件事。
You got my money?" God, Steven, I hope you make me a good documentary because this is such bullshit and I'm so fucking sick of reading it, I can't even begin to tell you.
你拿到我的钱了吗？”天哪，史蒂文，我希望你能为我制作一部精彩的纪录片，因为这真是废话，我实在厌倦了读它，我什至无法开始告诉你。
You can leave that in the tape if you like.
如果您愿意，可以将其留在磁带中。
You know, at that point in time, there was not any-- he hadn't told me all this other stuff.
你知道，在那个时候，没有任何——他没有告诉我所有其他的事情。
They got me in there under false pretenses, saying I already knew about this.
他们以虚假借口把我骗到那里，说我已经知道这件事。
There wasn't anything else.
没有别的事了。
Then when I get in there, he said, I've been doing this for quite a few times, and I've been making money doing this, blah, blah, blah.
然后当我进去的时候，他说，我已经这样做了好几次了，而且我一直在这样做赚钱，等等，等等。
And it's just off-the-wall stuff.
这只是一些古怪的东西。
I was confused, upset, and like I said, I felt obligated to follow through with the training that he had contracted me to do.
我很困惑、心烦意乱，就像我说的，我觉得有义务完成他与我签约的培训。
"During the training, Williams instructed Undercover A, 'Do not change your story.
“在训练期间，威廉姆斯指示卧底 A，‘不要改变你的故事。
Do not tell on yourself.
不要告诉自己。
And do not admit to ever seeing me or talking to me or anything else.'"
并且不要承认曾经见过我或与我交谈过或做过任何其他事情。”
And when it was all over, he gave me a big ol' hug and thanked me for helping him.
当一切结束后，他给了我一个大大的拥抱，并感谢我对他的帮助。
I even put on my Twitter that I helped another person withstand another traumatic polygraph experience.
我什至在推特上表示，我帮助另一个人承受了另一次痛苦的测谎经历。
I didn't think there was anything wrong with anything I did.
我不认为我所做的任何事情有什么问题。
Pause for dramatic effect.
暂停以获得戏剧性效果。
"Second Undercover Operation." Man, is this the biggest pile of bullshit I ever saw in my life.
“第二次卧底行动。”伙计，这是我一生中见过的最大的一堆废话吗？
"On or about February 5, 2013, Undercover B placed a telephone call to Williams' personal cellular telephone.
“2013 年 2 月 5 日左右，卧底 B 拨通了威廉姆斯的个人手机。
Undercover B told Williams that he was employed as at county sheriff and he was applying for a job with the border patrol.
卧底 B 告诉威廉姆斯，他是县治安官，正在申请边境巡逻队的工作。
During a conversation, Undercover B told Williams that he was worried about answering questions the CBP might ask relating to sex and drugs.
在一次谈话中，卧底 B 告诉威廉姆斯，他担心回答 CBP 可能提出的有关性和毒品的问题。
Williams told Undercover B, 'I will get you ready.
威廉姆斯告诉卧底 B，“我会让你做好准备。”
Don't tell me anything that will disqualify you, and I can train you how to pass if you're lying your ass off, so don't worry about that fucking bullshit."
别告诉我任何会让你失去资格的事情，我可以训练你如何在撒谎的情况下通过考试，所以别担心那些该死的废话。”
Yeah.
是的。
He arrived at the appointed time, knocked on the door, and I told him to come in.
他按照约定的时间到了，敲了敲门，我叫他进来。
And then I go through my little exercise and have him close his eyes and read off the little script.
然后我进行了我的小练习，让他闭上眼睛读出小剧本。
I said, OK, think of something frightening on the controls.
我说，好吧，在控制器上想一些可怕的东西。
And that's when he'd said that he had got sexual favors from a 14-year-old girl when he was driving her home, and that he had smuggled cocaine into the jail.
就在那时，他说他在开车送一名 14 岁女孩回家的路上得到了她的性好处，并且还向监狱走私了可卡因。
"Undercover B tried to further explain his concerns but was interrupted by Williams, saying, "Oh god, please help me.
“卧底 B 试图进一步解释他的担忧，但被威廉姆斯打断，说：“天哪，请帮助我。
Shut the fuck up.
他妈的闭嘴。
Quit worrying about all that stuff.
别再担心所有这些事情了。
Listen, I'm fixing to put it all positive, OK?' Williams added, 'I don't give a damn if you're the biggest heroin dealer in the fucking United States.'"
听着，我打算把一切都说成积极的，好吗？威廉姆斯补充道，“如果你是美国最大的海洛因贩子，我一点也不在乎。”
Why are you saying this?
你为什么这么说？
Why are you talking like this?
你为什么这么说话？
And I just lost it.
我刚刚失去了它。
I went crazy in front of him.
我在他面前疯了。
If you come in here and make these stupid confessions to me, I'm going to give you absolution, you son of a bitch.
如果你来这里向我做出这些愚蠢的坦白，我就会赦免你，你这个王八蛋。
I'm going to lick my finger and I'll put the sign of the cross on his forehead and I was like, [BABBLING].
我要舔我的手指，然后在他的额头上画个十字，然后我就说，[胡言乱语]。
Go in peace, my son.
平静地走吧，我的儿子。
[BABBLING], doing my best imitation of a priest speaking in Latin.
[胡言乱语]，尽我所能模仿牧师用拉丁语说话。
He was sitting there, wide-eyed, and he was getting more pink by the minute.
他坐在那里，睁大眼睛，脸色越来越粉红。
And then finally, I just got right down in front of his face and put my nose right next to his and I said, you about ready to stop this crap and go catch your airplane?
最后，我直接趴在他面前，把鼻子凑到他的旁边，我说，你准备好停止这种废话并去赶飞机了吗？
"Yes, sir.
“是的，先生。
Yes, sir, I am." And he grabs his backpack and runs out the door and then here comes five federal agents in bulletproof vests.
是的，先生，我是。”他抓起背包跑出了门，然后进来了五名穿着防弹背心的联邦特工。
They had this long, drawn-out search warrant all printed up.
他们把这份冗长的搜查令都打印出来了。
And they told me, well, this could all be over today if you just cooperate.
他们告诉我，好吧，如果你合作的话，今天一切都可以结束。
And I said, man, I don't know what you mean by cooperating.
我说，伙计，我不知道你所说的合作是什么意思。
I don't know what I've done.
我不知道我做了什么。
Well, will you talk to us about this?
好吧，你能和我们谈谈这个吗？
And I said, no, I don't-- I'm not talking to you at all.
我说，不，我不——我根本不跟你说话。
You call my attorney.
你打电话给我的律师。
Up front at 9:30 tonight, a federal investigation has targeted Doug Williams' work.
今晚 9:30，联邦调查针对 Doug Williams 的工作。
Williams says the federal government alone spends $150 million on polygraph screenings for people working with classified information, but points to the recent cases of Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden as proof the polygraph is far from a foolproof way to stop intelligence leaks.
威廉姆斯表示，仅联邦政府就花费了 1.5 亿美元对从事机密信息工作的人员进行测谎仪筛查，但他指出，最近布拉德利·曼宁和爱德华·斯诺登的案件证明，测谎仪远非阻止情报泄露的万无一失的方法。
Williams and another anti-polygraph crusader are under federal investigation for their role in teaching techniques to pass the so-called lie detector.
威廉姆斯和另一位反测谎斗士因在教授通过所谓测谎仪的技术方面所扮演的角色而受到联邦调查。
I do not and will not knowingly assist anyone to lie or train anyone to lie.
我不会也不会故意帮助任何人撒谎或训练任何人撒谎。
But by far, the majority of people who are called liars are innocent, truthful people that are falsely branded as liars simply because they're nervous.
但到目前为止，大多数被称为说谎者的人都是无辜、诚实的人，他们仅仅因为紧张而被错误地称为说谎者。
Williams says he refuses to teach people who tell him they want to lie and won't stop working to end the use of the machine he believes is based on faulty science.
威廉姆斯说，他拒绝教导那些告诉他想要撒谎的人，并且不会停止努力终止他认为基于错误科学的机器的使用。
They went ahead and indicted me.
他们继续起诉我。
And the rest of the story you know.
故事的其余部分你都知道。
They were threatening all sorts of stuff like, OK, well, this guy-- bear in mind, he really wasn't applying for a job.
他们威胁各种各样的东西，比如，好吧，这个人——记住，他真的不是在申请工作。
He was already a customs and border patrol agent, but he was claiming that he was trying for a job.
他已经是一名海关和边境巡逻人员，但他声称自己正在找工作。
They were saying, OK, well, you're helping this guy get a job that he wasn't qualified for, and this job pays $60,000 a year, and he'll be working there for 30 years, so you're going to have to forfeit to the government 30 times $60,000.
他们说，好吧，好吧，你正在帮助这个人找到一份他不合格的工作，这份工作每年支付 60,000 美元，他将在那里工作 30 年，所以你将不得不向政府上缴 60,000 美元的 30 倍。
Boy, that can bring pressure to bear on you.
孩子，这会给你带来压力。
And so it was one of those deals where I said, OK, shoot up here amongst us.
因此，在其中一笔交易中，我说，好吧，在我们这里拍摄。
One of us has got to have some relief.
我们中的一个人必须得到一些解脱。
I had pled guilty trying to save myself from being in debt to the government for like $17 million.
我曾为了避免欠政府约 1700 万美元的债务而认罪。
You were a trained interrogator for many years in the police department.
您是一名在警察局工作多年的受过训练的审讯员。
This was your job.
这是你的工作。
You were a professional.
你是一个专业人士。
Couldn't you tell if a client was unscrupulous?
难道你就不能判断客户是否不道德吗？
Boy, you name me one person on the face of this earth that isn't unscrupulous in one degree or another.
孩子，你说我是这个地球上一个在某种程度上不肆无忌惮的人。
So how am I going to determine the degree of unscruples?
那么如何判断肆无忌惮的程度呢？
Give me a dying break.
给我一个垂死的休息。
You're a trained interviewer.
你是一位训练有素的面试官。
Can you tell at what point I'm BSing you and what point I'm not?
你能告诉我什么时候我在对你胡言乱语，什么时候我没有胡言乱语吗？
No, you can't, and nobody can, in spite of what they say.
不，你不能，也没有人能，不管他们怎么说。
OK.
好的。
So Doug, I just want to go back and, when you first started out training people, did you have any ground rules you drew from?
道格，我只想回顾一下，当您第一次开始培训人员时，您是否借鉴了任何基本规则？
No, I had no ground rules because I never saw the necessity of having any ground rules because no one ever came in and told me they were going to lie, and I never told anyone I was going to teach them how to lie.
不，我没有基本规则，因为我从来没有看到有任何基本规则的必要性，因为没有人进来告诉我他们要撒谎，我也从来没有告诉任何人我要教他们如何撒谎。
OK.
好的。
You're going to paint me in whatever corner you want to paint me.
你要把我画在你想画我的任何角落。
You just go ahead and paint me.
你就来画我吧。
But I never told anyone to lie, nor did anyone tell me they were going to lie, and the government knows that very well because they've interviewed 5,000 people that I trained.
但我从来没有告诉任何人撒谎，也没有人告诉我他们会撒谎，政府非常清楚这一点，因为他们采访了我培训过的 5,000 人。
Not one of them ever told me they were going to lie.
他们中没有人告诉我他们会撒谎。
So--
所以——
I'm not mounting a federal investigation against you.
我不会对你发起联邦调查。
Well, you certainly are.
嗯，你当然是。
You're sitting there, saying that it was incumbent upon me to inquire as to whether or not a person is guilty of a crime when they come in and learn about how to pass a polygraph test.
你坐在那里，说我有责任在一个人进来学习如何通过测谎仪测试时询问他是否有罪。
It is not incumbent upon me to do that.
我没有义务这样做。
That is not my job, nor is it my responsibility.
这不是我的工作，也不是我的责任。
I'm neither ethically or legally required to do that.
无论是道德上还是法律上都没有要求我这样做。
But were there lines to yourself that you were uncomfortable with crossing?
但你自己是否有一些难以逾越的界线？
I never crossed any lines.
我从来没有越过任何界限。
What lines did I ever cross?
我曾经跨越过什么界限？
None.
没有。
Hello.
你好。
Jacob Mcclelland Hey, Doug.
雅各布·麦克莱兰 嘿，道格。
How you doing?
你怎么样？
Well, I'm 71 years old and I'm in federal prison.
嗯，我今年 71 岁了，在联邦监狱里。
How the hell do you think I'm doing?
你觉得我怎么样？
I was sentenced to two years.
我被判两年徒刑。
I got about another four or five months before I finish my sentence.
我还有大约四五个月的时间才能完成刑期。
You hear all the racket in here?
你听到这里的喧闹声了吗？
250 guys crammed into a 2-story building about the size of a small apartment complex, living in 12 by 9 rooms, two men to a room.
250 个人挤在一座相当于小型公寓楼大小的 2 层楼房里，住在 12 乘 9 间的房间里，两个人住一个房间。
So it's always in the background a constant uproar.
因此，背后总是有持续不断的骚动。
I'm in here with a bunch of nonviolent drug offenders or crooked bankers, tax cheats.
我和一群非暴力毒品犯罪者或不诚实的银行家、逃税者在一起。
This is a work prison.
这是一个工作监狱。
All I have to do is clean the windows in the visiting room of the administration building.
我所要做的就是擦干净行政大楼会客室的窗户。
It takes me about 15 minutes, and then I'm done.
我花了大约 15 分钟，然后就完成了。
Then I go out and work out.
然后我出去锻炼。
I work out twice a day.
我每天锻炼两次。
My goal is to leave here in better shape physically, emotionally, spiritually than I was when I came in here, if, for no other reason, than to show them they can't beat me.
我的目标是离开这里时，在身体、情感和精神上都比我刚来这里时更好，如果没有其他原因，那就是向他们表明他们无法击败我。
But I stay pretty busy.
但我仍然很忙。
I do a lot of reading.
我做了很多阅读。
Just parenthetically, prisoners are probably the best reviewers of literature that there is because that's all they do is read.
顺便说一句，囚犯可能是最好的文学评论家，因为他们所做的就是阅读。
They spend hours and hours and hours reading.
他们花费大量时间阅读。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
I've trained quite a few people, yeah, including some of the officers here, because it turns out they are subjected to polygraph examinations on occasion themselves.
是的，我培训了很多人，包括这里的一些警官，因为事实证明他们自己有时也会接受测谎仪检查。
And you just do it without a polygraph machine?
你不需要测谎仪就可以做到这一点吗？
You just do the mental imagery stuff?
你只做心理想象的事情吗？
I can teach them without a polygraph.
我可以在没有测谎仪的情况下教他们。
I've done it for years, [INAUDIBLE].
我已经这样做很多年了，[听不清]。
You do it in the cafeteria or in your room or?
你是在自助餐厅还是在你的房间里做的？
Do you feel that, if you have indirectly helped someone actually deceive a polygraph operator, that that's a small price to pay for undermining this machine?
您是否认为，如果您间接帮助某人实际上欺骗了测谎仪操作员，那么破坏这台机器所付出的代价就很小了？
Well, let's put it this way.
好吧，让我们这样说吧。
I have proved conclusively that the polygraph is absolutely worthless as a lie detector.
我已经最终证明，测谎仪作为测谎仪绝对毫无价值。
So if there's a crime committed here, the crime is the fraud perpetrated by the polygraph operators in convincing our government and our criminal justice system to rely on an instrument that they know, and I have proven, is absolutely worthless.
因此，如果这里发生了犯罪，那么该犯罪就是测谎仪操作员犯下的欺诈行为，目的是说服我们的政府和刑事司法系统依赖他们知道（我已经证明）绝对毫无价值的仪器。
So that sounds like a yes.
所以这听起来像是肯定的。
Douglas Williams Well, hell yes.
道格拉斯·威廉姆斯 好吧，是的。
Do you have anything you want to add before we call it a day?
在我们到此为止之前您还有什么要补充的吗？
No, just to reiterate once again that I am, in fact, a political prisoner.
不，只是再次重申我实际上是一名政治犯。
I am in prison because I have protested the loudest and the longest against the polygraph.
我入狱是因为我对测谎仪的抗议最响亮、最长。
Now, if they think throwing me in prison for a couple of years is going to stop me from doing that, they are terribly wrong.
现在，如果他们认为把我关进监狱几年就能阻止我这样做，那他们就大错特错了。
If you think I've protested the loudest and the longest before, wait till I get out.
如果你认为我以前抗议得最响亮、持续时间最长，那就等我出去吧。
That story was produced by Love + Radio.
这个故事是由 Love + Radio 制作的。
Part of their upcoming season.
他们即将到来的赛季的一部分。
A quick footnote to the story.
故事的快速脚注。
Doug says in the story that the polygraph was invented in 1922, but he's misremembering.
道格在故事中说测谎仪是 1922 年发明的，但他记错了。
It's actually 1921.
实际上是1921年。
And also, in case this wasn't clear, he was not the only person to testify to Congress in the 1980s about polygraphs.
而且，如果不清楚的话，他并不是 20 世纪 80 年代唯一一个就测谎仪问题向国会作证的人。
In particular, there was research by a guy named Leonard Saxe that was very important.
特别是一位名叫 Leonard Saxe 的人的研究非常重要。
It is true that lie detectors are unreliable at their main job, detecting lies.
确实，测谎仪的主要工作——检测谎言——并不可靠。
Innocent people can get nervous and fail.
无辜的人可能会紧张并失败。
Guilty ones can pass.
有罪者可以过去。
If you aren't already listening to the Love + Radio podcast, they have many, many powerful, morally complicated stories, produced and edited beautifully, a whole archive.
如果你还没有听过《Love + Radio》播客，他们有很多很多强大的、道德上复杂的故事，制作和编辑得很漂亮，是一个完整的档案。
You can find them at loveandradio.org or wherever you get your podcasts.
您可以在 loveandradio.org 或任何可以获取播客的地方找到它们。
Coming up, Comey?
来吧，科米？
You Hardly Know Me.
你几乎不认识我。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, Mr. Lie Detector, about hiding and revealing lies.
今天的节目《测谎先生》是关于隐藏和揭露谎言的。
There was an interesting moment at James Comey's testimony this week before the Senate Intelligence Committee when Senator Mark Warner asked the former FBI director why he felt it was necessary to write up notes immediately after each time he met with Donald Trump.
詹姆斯·科米本周在参议院情报委员会作证时有一个有趣的时刻，参议员马克·华纳问这位前联邦调查局局长为什么他认为有必要在每次会见唐纳德·特朗普后立即写下笔记。
As part of his answer, Comey said--
作为回答的一部分，科米说——
I was honestly concerned that he might lie about the nature of our meeting and so I thought it really important to document.
老实说，我担心他可能会对我们会议的性质撒谎，所以我认为记录下来非常重要。
In the back and forth that followed, Senator Warner summarized Comey's statement this way.
在随后的反复讨论中，华纳参议员这样总结了科米的声明。
So in all your experience, this was the only president that you felt like, in every meeting, you needed to document because at some point, using your words, he might put out a non-truthful representation of that meeting?
因此，根据您的所有经验，这是您觉得在每次会议中唯一需要记录的总统，因为在某些时候，用您的话来说，他可能会对该次会议做出不真实的陈述？
OK, I'm just going to stop this right there because that is not using his words.
好吧，我就到此为止，因为这不是用他的话。
The word Comey used was lie.
科米用的词是谎言。
The words that Warner used were non-truthful representation.
华纳的言论是不真实的表述。
That's just how toxic the word is, the whole idea of lying is.
这就是这个词的毒性，说谎的整个含义。
One of the president's spokespeople responded to Comey's testimony by saying, quote, "I can definitively say the president is not a liar."
总统的一位发言人对科米的证词做出了回应，他说：“我可以明确地说，总统不是一个骗子。”
But you know one of them is lying, either the president's team or the former FBI director, under oath.
但你知道其中一个人在宣誓后在撒谎，无论是总统团队还是前联邦调查局局长。
Either the president asked for Comey's loyalty and pressured him to drop an FBI investigation, or he did not.
总统要么要求科米忠诚并向他施压，要求他放弃联邦调查局的调查，要么他不这样做。
As we've learned in this program today, polygraphs will not help us get to the truth of this matter.
正如我们今天在这个节目中了解到的那样，测谎仪无法帮助我们了解此事的真相。
At some point, the only hope is that a liar comes forward and admits the truth in a situation like this.
在某些时候，在这种情况下，唯一的希望就是骗子站出来承认真相。
Which brings us to Act two of our program.
这让我们进入了计划的第二幕。
Act Two, Where the Rubber Meets the Road.
第二幕，橡胶与道路相遇的地方。
This next story is about a guy who-- I say this with respect-- probably would not do very well on a lie detector test, Theo Greenly.
下一个故事是关于一个人——我怀着敬意地说这个——可能在测谎仪测试中表现不佳，西奥·格林利。
Nice guy.
好人。
Lives in LA.
住在洛杉矶。
Makes a living as a bartender.
以调酒师为生。
And he told us about this lie that had been eating at him for a while, involving a cousin of his.
他向我们讲述了这个困扰他一段时间的谎言，其中涉及他的一个表弟。
Sean Cole explains.
肖恩·科尔解释道。
Before I get to the lying part, I first have to tell you about Theo's cousin.
在我开始说谎之前，我首先要告诉你关于西奥表弟的事。
He's an artist, famous, as artists go, named Kenny Scharf.
他是一位艺术家，在艺术家中很有名，名叫肯尼·沙夫。
Kenny came up in the '80s in New York with the likes of Keith Haring and Jean-Michel Basquiat.
上世纪 80 年代，肯尼 (Kenny) 与 Keith Haring 和 Jean-Michel Basquiat 等人一起在纽约崭露头角。
He's done a lot of street art like Keith Haring.
他像基思·哈林（Keith Haring）一样创作了很多街头艺术。
Except Kenny's stuff is a lot more psychedelic-- trippy collages of cartoon monster faces, super colorful.
除了肯尼的作品更加迷幻之外——卡通怪物面孔的迷幻拼贴画，色彩超级丰富。
And he's done huge murals all over New York, and some in LA and Brazil.
他在纽约各地创作了巨幅壁画，还有一些在洛杉矶和巴西创作。
A recent canvas of his sold for $100,000.
他最近的一幅油画以 10 万美元的价格售出。
I've always admired Kenny.
我一直很欣赏肯尼。
Sean Cole This is Theo.
肖恩·科尔 这是西奥。
He's in his early 30s, so about 25 years younger than Kenny.
他30岁出头，比肯尼小25岁左右。
And he'd heard about Kenny for years before he met him.
在遇见肯尼之前，他已经听说过他很多年了。
They lived in different cities.
他们住在不同的城市。
Theo had grown up seeing his cousin's art.
西奥是看着他表弟的艺术长大的。
Kenny seemed like a big deal.
肯尼看起来很重要。
To be honest, I guess I've always been a little bit intimidated by him because he lives such this really cool, big life, it seems to me.
说实话，我想我一直有点被他吓到了，因为在我看来，他过着非常酷、伟大的生活。
And so any time I'm around him, I'm always a little quiet and tense.
所以每当我在他身边时，我总是有点安静和紧张。
I just never really felt fully comfortable around him.
我只是在他身边从来没有真正感到完全舒服。
Which goes along with the kind of person Theo is in general.
这与西奥的总体性格相符。
During our interview, he used the word "neurotic" twice and the word "anxious" five times, especially as regards to this thing that happened with Kenny a couple of years ago.
在我们的采访中，他两次使用“神经质”这个词，五次使用“焦虑”这个词，尤其是在几年前发生在肯尼身上的这件事上。
Theo was at Kenny's house in LA with a bunch of other relatives, some birthday party or something, and they were just standing around talking-- Theo, his mom, his aunt, and his famous, exuberant cousin.
西奥和其他亲戚一起在洛杉矶肯尼的家里，参加一些生日聚会什么的，他们只是站在那里聊天——西奥、他的妈妈、他的阿姨，还有他著名的、精力充沛的表弟。
And I think it was Kenny's idea, or maybe my mom's idea to be like, hey, how about some karbombz on your cars?
我认为这是肯尼的主意，或者也许是我妈妈的主意，嘿，在你的车上加点卡邦兹怎么样？
Karbombz!
卡邦兹！
Sean Cole Karbombz.
肖恩·科尔·卡邦兹。
That's Kenny in a YouTube video.
那是 YouTube 视频中的肯尼。
K-A-R-B-O-M-B-Z.
K-A-R-B-O-M-B-Z。
Sean Cole It's this project Kenny's been doing for maybe four years now.
肖恩·科尔：这个项目肯尼已经做了四年了。
He paints his loony cartoon faces on the sides of people's cars with spray paint.
他用喷漆在人们汽车的侧面画上他疯狂的卡通脸。
This is more from YouTube.
这是更多来自 YouTube 的内容。
What is this, 85?
这是什么，85？
I've done almost 200 cars already.
我已经做了近200辆车了。
Sometimes he paints eyelids over the headlights with a nose and mouth underneath.
有时他会在车头灯上画上眼睑，在下面画上鼻子和嘴巴。
He does it for free for really anyone who asks him to.
他确实免费为任何要求他做的人做这件事。
Just makes you sign an agreement saying you won't, like, tear the door off and sell it to an art gallery.
只是让你签署一份协议，说你不会把门撕掉然后卖给艺术画廊。
He doesn't want money attached to it.
他不想与金钱挂钩。
All of his volunteers-- or victims, as he calls them-- are super into the idea.
他所有的志愿者——或者他所说的受害者——都非常热衷于这个想法。
Theo's mom and aunt were super into it.
西奥的妈妈和阿姨非常喜欢它。
And I was sort of into it.
我有点喜欢它。
I was into it, but I remember I didn't want a big, giant thing on the side.
我很喜欢它，但我记得我不想要一个又大又巨大的东西。
I was thinking more of maybe a little secret one up on the top.
我更多地想的是上面可能有一个小秘密。
And he goes, well, then nobody's going to see that.
然后他就走了，好吧，这样就没有人会看到了。
And I thought, oh, yeah, OK.
我想，哦，是的，好吧。
What did you have in mind?
你有什么想法？
They finally decide on two of Kenny's standard characters, one on each side of the car.
他们最终决定了肯尼的两个标准角色，车的每一侧各一个。
The first looks like a Nike swoosh with eyes and a mouth that he calls Yike.
第一个看起来像耐克的标志，有眼睛和嘴巴，他称之为“Yike”。
The other is basically a cartoon comet hurtling through space, known as Speedy.
另一个基本上是一颗在太空中飞驰的卡通彗星，称为“Speedy”。
Kenny starts with that one.
肯尼就从这个开始。
He picks up a can of spray paint, walks up to Theo's 2008 Toyota hatchback, and sprays a bright green line from the nose of the car all the way to the back.
他拿起一罐喷漆，走到 Theo 的 2008 款丰田掀背车前，从车头一直喷到车尾，喷出一条亮绿色的线。
At which point, he looks at Theo and says, no turning back now!
这时，他看着西奥说道，现在不能回头！
I really wanted to like it.
我真的很想喜欢它。
I wanted to want it, and I wanted to be cool.
我想要它，我想要变得很酷。
And I wanted to think, oh, what a cool, fun thing.
我想，哦，这是多么酷、有趣的事情啊。
All right, you know?
好吧，你知道吗？
Karbombz!
卡邦兹！
Karbombz!
卡邦兹！
Theo Greenly But I didn't feel that way.
西奥·格林利：但我没有这样的感觉。
Kenny paints the whole outline of this shooting comet, rounded front, and these lines radiating off of it along the whole length of the driver's side.
肯尼画出了这颗射击彗星的整个轮廓，圆形的正面，这些线条沿着驾驶员一侧的整个长度从彗星上辐射出来。
And he filled it in, and it was pretty phallic was my first thought.
他把它填了，我的第一个想法是它非常阳具。
Then I was like, you know, just shut up, Theo.
然后我就想，你知道，闭嘴吧，西奥。
Don't be immature.
别不成熟。
This is cool and fun.
这很酷又有趣。
But then he put on a nose, and he does this circle at the front.
但随后他装上了鼻子，并在前面做了这个圆圈。
And I remember just thinking that it looked like the reservoir tip of a condom.
我记得我只是觉得它看起来像避孕套的储液囊尖端。
Theo didn't say anything.
提奥什么也没说。
He kept his game face on because, again, he wanted to be game.
他保持着比赛的表情，因为他再次想要比赛。
I was trying to be that person, but I'm not that person-- a cool, hip, fun, artsy, exciting person.
我试图成为那个人，但我不是那个人——一个酷、时髦、有趣、有艺术气息、令人兴奋的人。
That lie he told himself isn't the lie the story's about, but it's a pretty big one.
他对自己说的那个谎言并不是故事里的谎言，但它是一个相当大的谎言。
Theo posed for pictures in front of the car-- find them on Instagram, #karbombz-- and then said goodbye to Kenny and got on the road to pick up his then-girlfriend, Shelly, for dinner.
西奥在车前摆好姿势拍照——在 Instagram 上找到它们，#karbombz——然后向肯尼道别，上路去接他当时的女友雪莉共进晚餐。
So I was driving over there.
于是我就开车过去了。
I was like, well, do I like this?
我当时想，好吧，我喜欢这个吗？
It kind of looks like a condom to me is one of the thoughts I have, but it's not just this alarm of, oh my god, it's a condom.
对我来说，它看起来像一个避孕套，这是我的想法之一，但这不仅仅是这种警报，天哪，这是一个避孕套。
It's a condom.
这是一个避孕套。
It's a condom.
这是一个避孕套。
It's a condom.
这是一个避孕套。
Right.
正确的。
Theo Greenly So I was leaning towards not really liking it.
Theo Greenly：所以我倾向于不太喜欢它。
But I tend to have that reaction to any change at first.
但我一开始往往会对任何变化做出这样的反应。
I don't think I've ever gotten a haircut and just been like, oh, great.
我想我从来没有理发过，只是觉得，哦，太棒了。
Theo parks near Shelly's house, goes and meets her at her door.
西奥把车停在雪莉家附近，去门口迎接她。
It may be worth noting that they had only been together about a month.
值得注意的是，他们只在一起一个月左右。
And then she comes out and she sees-- we're walking towards the car, and then I see her spot the car and just stop dead in her tracks.
然后她出来了，她看到——我们正朝那辆车走去，然后我看到她发现了那辆车，然后就停了下来。
And she just stares at it, then she stares at me, then she stares back at the car, and she's like, what is that?
她只是盯着它，然后她盯着我，然后她又盯着那辆车，她就像，那是什么？
And I said, that's my car.
我说，那是我的车。
My cousin painted a racing stripe on it with spray paint.
我表弟用喷漆在上面画了一条赛车条纹。
He's a famous artist.
他是一位著名的艺术家。
And she was like, Theo, your cousin is not a famous artist.
她说，西奥，你的表弟不是著名的艺术家。
She was not a fan.
她不是粉丝。
She was like, no way.
她就像，不可能。
We ended up walking to dinner.
我们最后步行去吃晚饭。
She didn't even want to go in the car.
她甚至不想上车。
She didn't want to be seen in it.
她不想被人看见。
Shelly's reaction was a blow.
雪莉的反应是一个打击。
They broke up not long after that-- not because of the car.
不久之后他们就分手了——不是因为汽车。
But Shelly was merely the first in a movie montage of horrified-- or, at least, confused-- friends and strangers, many of them curious as to why he had a condom on his car.
但雪莉只是电影蒙太奇中的第一个人，朋友和陌生人都感到惊恐，或者至少是困惑，他们中的许多人很好奇为什么他的车上有安全套。
I could tell when somebody was thinking it.
我能看出有人在想什么。
People would look at it and just kind of be like, oh, well, that's-- that's nice.
人们看着它就会觉得，哦，好吧，那是——那很好。
I'd say, thanks.
我想说，谢谢。
Yeah, my cousin painted it.
是的，是我表弟画的。
He's a famous artist.
他是一位著名的艺术家。
They'd say, oh, yeah.
他们会说，哦，是的。
Does he, um-- does he always paint, uh-- it looks like, um-- and I'd say, a condom?
他，嗯——他总是画，呃——看起来像，嗯——我想说，一个避孕套吗？
And they'd say, yeah, like a condom.
他们会说，是的，就像避孕套一样。
Theo's roommate freaked out.
西奥的室友吓坏了。
People at the restaurant where he worked didn't know what to make of it.
他工作的餐厅里的人不知道该怎么办。
And of course, as problems go, this isn't the most urgent one facing the world today.
当然，就问题而言，这并不是当今世界面临的最紧迫的问题。
Basically, a relative had given Theo this gift that made him miserable.
基本上，一位亲戚给了西奥这份让他痛苦的礼物。
But just to underline, this is all happening in Los Angeles, where, to paraphrase an old adage, wherever you go, there is your car.
但要强调的是，这一切都发生在洛杉矶，套用一句古老的格言，无论你走到哪里，都有你的车。
There was no escaping scrutiny.
没有逃脱审查。
Theo had to drive to work, to the store, to friends' houses, and probably he would have felt uncomfortable with any bright green graffiti painted on his car, attracting sometimes yelly attention from strangers.
西奥必须开车去上班、去商店、去朋友家，而且他可能会对车上画的任何亮绿色涂鸦感到不舒服，有时会引起陌生人的注意。
But the condomness, the phallicicity of this particular cartoon, it just carried an extra freight with it.
但这部特定卡通片中的避孕套和阳具，只是带来了额外的负担。
The thing is, Kenny's art, there's no fear of sex.
问题是，肯尼的艺术，没有对性的恐惧。
Yes.
是的。
Theo Greenly But I'm terrified of sex.
西奥·格林利：但我害怕性。
Of sex?
性？
Really?
真的吗？
Theo Greenly I mean, not really, but it's just I'm not as comfortable about just showing my sexuality--
西奥·格林利（Theo Greenly）我的意思是，不是真的，但只是我不太愿意仅仅展示我的性取向——
Got it.
明白了。
Theo Greenly --just out.
西奥·格林利——刚刚出局。
I'm not that kind of person.
我不是那样的人。
I'm not outgoing about that.
我对此并不外向。
Nor outgoing at all.
一点也不外向。
As he was parking once, a couple of methed-out tweaker guys told him how much they liked the car, which felt like its own kind of put-down.
有一次他停车时，几个精明的改装工告诉他他们有多喜欢这辆车，这感觉就像是一种贬低。
And then I decided to do something about it.
然后我决定为此做点什么。
This was about six months after Kenny painted the car.
这是肯尼给汽车喷漆后大约六个月的时间。
Theo googled how to remove spray paint from a car.
西奥在谷歌上搜索了如何去除汽车上的喷漆。
And as with so many problems, the answer is nail polish remover.
与许多问题一样，答案是指甲油去除剂。
But he didn't buy enough to get the job done and so, after a few hours, he managed to scrub just half the condom off.
但他买的东西还不够多，所以几个小时后，他只擦掉了一半的避孕套。
The back half.
后半部分。
He'd have to come back for the rest later.
剩下的事他得稍后再回来。
Still, he was relieved, like an enormous, bright green prophylactic was lifted off his shoulders.
尽管如此，他还是松了口气，就像一块巨大的、亮绿色的避孕药从他的肩膀上被拿了下来。
And then I was going to work one day, and I get a call from my aunt.
然后有一天我要去上班，接到姨妈的电话。
And she's like, hey, Theo, it's Gayla.
她说，嘿，西奥，我是盖拉。
What happened?
发生了什么？
Were you in an accident?
你出事故了吗？
I was like, no, I wasn't in an accident.
我当时想，不，我没有遭遇意外。
She said, oh.
她说，哦。
Well, I'm with Kenny right now and he says that your car is on the internet and that you had your door replaced.
嗯，我现在和肯尼在一起，他说你的车在互联网上并且你的车门已经更换了。
You must have been in an accident.
你一定是遭遇了事故。
And I'm trying to put this together.
我正在尝试将这些整合在一起。
I'm like, wait, what?
我想，等等，什么？
How'd he see my car?
他怎么看到我的车的？
Someone had taken a picture of Theo's car, put it on Instagram-- #karbombz-- and Kenny happened across it and thought, why is half the paint missing?
有人给西奥的车拍了张照片，把它放在 Instagram 上——#karbombz——肯尼偶然发现了这张照片，心想，为什么一半油漆不见了？
Theo tells his aunt Gayla, I'm fine, and rushes off the phone.
西奥告诉他的阿姨盖拉，我很好，然后就匆匆挂掉了电话。
But it was only a matter of time before Kenny caught up with him.
但肯尼追上他只是时间问题。
The next family gathering at Kenny's place, Theo pulls up to the house, and all his relatives' cars are parked out front, about half of them with karbombz on the side, making Theo feel even worse.
下一次在肯尼家聚会时，西奥把车停在了房子前，所有亲戚的车都停在门外，其中大约一半的车旁边还停着卡邦兹，这让西奥感觉更糟了。
It was like he had betrayed the tribe.
就好像他背叛了部落。
Theo spent the whole party trying to avoid his cousin, but finally Kenny came up to him and said, what happened to your car?
整个聚会上西奥都在试图避开他的表弟，但最后肯尼走到他面前说，你的车怎么了？
And so I said, I had to take the paint off because some kids or somebody tagged it with a paint pen.
所以我说，我必须把油漆去掉，因为有些孩子或有人用油漆笔在上面做了标记。
So kids graffitied over his painting is what you told him?
所以你告诉他孩子们在他的画上涂鸦？
Yeah.
是的。
And then he says, well, do you want to come over to my studio again and we'll repaint it?
然后他说，好吧，你想再次到我的工作室来，我们重新粉刷它吗？
And my heart sank.
我的心沉了下去。
Remarkably, while Theo had come to the party prepared with a lie, he hadn't imagined how Kenny might respond, like a chess player who'd only bothered to think one move into the future.
值得注意的是，虽然西奥带着谎言来参加聚会，但他没有想象肯尼会如何反应，就像一个只费心思考未来一步的棋手一样。
And I feel guilty about the whole thing.
我对整件事感到内疚。
I feel bad that I lied to Kenny.
我对我对肯尼撒了谎感到很难过。
I feel bad that I defaced his art.
我为自己玷污了他的艺术而感到难过。
Yeah.
是的。
I do want to come clean.
我确实想坦白说出来。
I'm terrified to do so.
我很害怕这样做。
But I think it's the right thing to do.
但我认为这是正确的做法。
How are you, Kenny?
你好吗，肯尼？
Theo Greenly Hey, Sean.
西奥·格林利 嘿，肖恩。
Good.
好的。
How are you, Sean?
你好吗，肖恩？
Sean Cole Theo goes back into the studio in Los Angeles with Kenny this time.
肖恩·科尔·西奥这次和肯尼一起回到洛杉矶的工作室。
So the two of them are now sitting across from each other.
所以现在两人就坐在了对面。
And I'm in a studio in New York.
我在纽约的一个工作室里。
I can't see them.
我看不到他们。
But I can tell Theo's nervous.
但我看得出来西奥很紧张。
I'm nervous.
我很紧张。
For one thing, Kenny had left a message for Theo beforehand saying, since we're meeting up anyway, why don't I just repaint your car outside the radio station?
一方面，肯尼事先给西奥留言说，既然我们要见面，不如我在广播电台外面给你的车重新喷漆吧？
Theo did not return that call.
西奥没有回电话。
We had told Kenny the story is about the karbombz, but it's really more about Theo.
我们告诉肯尼这个故事是关于卡尔博兹的，但实际上更多的是关于西奥的。
And after a while, I tried to ease us into the topic at hand.
过了一会儿，我试图让我们轻松进入手头的话题。
And has anyone ever sort of expressed any sort of buyer's remorse or--
有没有人表达过买家的悔意或者——
Their spouses.
他们的配偶。
Sean Cole Oh, is that right?
肖恩·科尔 哦，是吗？
They've gone home and they were like, she hates it, and they'd been painted over.
他们回家了，他们说，她讨厌这样，他们被粉刷了。
But it's only happened a couple times.
但这种事只发生过几次。
Well, I've got to say, you know, part of this--
好吧，我必须说，你知道，其中一部分——
I really didn't expect Theo to cut to the chase this quickly.
我真没想到西奥这么快就切入正题。
I've got to come clean with you.
我必须和你坦白。
I've got to level with you, because a big part of this today is, there's something that I've been wrestling with and have felt really guilty about having--
我必须向你坦白说，因为今天的一个重要部分是，有一些事情我一直在努力解决，并且对自己感到非常内疚——
It's OK.
没关系。
Theo Greenly --known how to tell you.
Theo Greenly——知道如何告诉你。
Whatever.
任何。
Tell me.
告诉我。
Theo Greenly When I took off the paint--
西奥·格林利 当我把油漆去掉时——
Right.
对。
Theo Greenly --I told you that it was because some kids tagged graffiti on it.
Theo Greenly——我告诉过你那是因为有些孩子在上面贴上了涂鸦标签。
And that's not true.
但这不是真的。
OK.
好的。
Theo Greenly I lied to you, and I feel really bad about that.
西奥·格林利 我对你撒了谎，我对此感到非常难过。
I was getting a lot of attention from it.
我从中得到了很多关注。
My girlfriend flipped out.
我女朋友突然发脾气了
People were joking that-- because, you know, it's pretty phallic.
人们开玩笑说——因为，你知道，这非常阳具。
That side of it is.
它的那一面是。
You know what?
你知道吗？
People say that.
人们这么说。
It's not really supposed-- that's not the intention, but I don't mind that people think that.
这并不是真正的假设——这不是本意，但我不介意人们这么想。
Yeah.
是的。
Everyone thinks that Speedy's a condom.
每个人都认为 Speedy 是避孕套。
They do?
他们这样做吗？
Kenny Scharf Not everyone, but I've gotten a few comments.
肯尼·沙夫（Kenny Scharf） 不是所有人，但我收到了一些评论。
That's what I was getting.
这就是我得到的。
And I was like--
我当时想——
A condom?
避孕套？
Theo Greenly Yeah.
西奥·格林利 是的。
And I could--
我可以——
Where the nose is the reservoir tube?
鼻子在哪里是储水管？
Is that it?
是这样吗？
Exactly!
确切地！
Exactly.
确切地。
Kenny Scharf That's so funny.
肯尼·沙尔夫 这太有趣了。
Just so you know, you could just tell me, hey, I've got to take this off.
只是想让你知道，你可以告诉我，嘿，我必须把它脱掉。
It's a little too much.
有点太多了。
Kenny said this happens all the time.
肯尼说这种情况经常发生。
People paint over their karbombz or get in accidents or just get rid of their cars.
人们在他们的车上涂漆，或者发生事故，或者干脆扔掉他们的汽车。
It's like any graffiti.
就像任何涂鸦一样。
You can't expect it to be there forever.
你不能指望它永远在那里。
In fact, listening to Theo wring his hands all over the place, Kenny was surprised he drove around with the Speedy character for as long as he did.
事实上，听着西奥扭动双手的声音，肯尼很惊讶他能这么长时间地驾驶着“快速”角色。
Well, the reason why is because I wanted to be a fun, cool, exuberant person.
嗯，原因是因为我想成为一个有趣、酷、充满活力的人。
But I think I kind of realized I'm not.
但我想我已经意识到我不是。
I'm more subdued and--
我比较内向，而且——
Blend.
混合。
You want to blend.
你想要混合。
Theo Greenly I do create-- yeah, well I want my-- I don't want to be-- did you say blend or bland?
Theo Greenly 我确实创造了——是的，好吧，我想要我的——我不想——你说的是混合还是平淡？
Blend.
混合。
Well, both.
嗯，两者都有。
Theo Greenly Yeah, both.
西奥·格林利 是的，两者都是。
I don't want to be bland.
我不想变得平淡。
Well, why not just do another non-"phallic," quote, unquote, image?
好吧，为什么不干脆再做一个非“阳具”的、引用、取消引用的图像呢？
Theo Greenly I don't feel like I can handle it.
Theo Greenly：我觉得我应付不了。
Well, then take it off.
嗯，那就脱掉吧。
It's OK, really.
真的没关系。
This is really the thing you want most when you lie to someone and then confess-- to be absolved not just of the lie, but of the supposedly terrible thing you were covering up in the first place.
当你对某人撒谎然后坦白时，这确实是你最想要的事情——不仅是谎言得到赦免，而且是你一开始掩盖的所谓可怕的事情得到赦免。
The day after this conversation, Kenny invited Theo down to see a mural he was painting in Koreatown and he saw Theo's car in the flesh.
这次谈话后的第二天，肯尼邀请西奥去看他在韩国城画的壁画，他亲眼看到了西奥的汽车。
He asked Theo to remove the rest of the condom-- sorry, the comet-- immediately just because he felt like his work was being misrepresented.
他要求西奥立即取下避孕套的其余部分——对不起，彗星——因为他觉得自己的作品被歪曲了。
Theo understood and complied.
西奥明白并答应了。
And now Theo doesn't feel like he's misrepresenting himself, either.
现在，西奥也不觉得自己在歪曲自己。
He still has the other cartoon on the passenger side, but if you happen to see him driving around LA and you only catch a glimpse of the driver's side of his car, you'd never know there was anything interesting about him at all.
他在乘客侧还挂着另一部漫画，但如果你碰巧看到他在洛杉矶开车，而你只瞥见了他车的驾驶员侧，你永远不会知道他有什么有趣的地方。
Sean Cole is one of the producers of our program.
肖恩·科尔是我们节目的制作人之一。
Our program was produced today by Karen Duffin.
我们今天的节目由凯伦·达芬制作。
Our team includes Elna Baker, Susan Burton, Ben Calhoun, Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Neil Drumming, Stephanie Foo, Michelle Harris, Seth Lind, Jonathan Menjivar, Robyn Semien, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, and Diane Wu.
我们的团队包括 Elna Baker、Susan Burton、Ben Calhoun、Zoe Chace、Sean Cole、Neil Drumming、Stephanie Foo、Michelle Harris、Seth Lind、Jonathan Menjivar、Robyn Semien、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney 和 Diane Wu。
Senior producer is Brian Reed.
高级制片人是布莱恩·里德。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, I was making balloon animals at a party this week that we had here at the office, and every balloon that I started twisting, Torey just kind of freaked out, saying--
你知道，本周我在办公室举行的一次聚会上制作了气球动物，每一个我开始扭转的气球，托里都有点害怕，说——
It's a condom.
这是一个避孕套。
It's a condom.
这是一个避孕套。
It's a condom.
这是一个避孕套。
It's a condom.
这是一个避孕套。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - "LIE DETECTOR" BY THE MIGHTY CAESARS]
[音乐 - MIGHTY CAESAR 的“测谎仪”]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。