613: OK, I’ll Do It - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #613 | March 31, 2017 613: OK, I’ll Do It Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 613 集 | 2017 年 3 月 31 日 613：好的，我会做 注意：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Doctor Sean Roden normally works for NASA caring for astronauts before and during their missions, which he does from Houston Mission Control.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯医生肖恩·罗登通常在美国宇航局工作，在宇航员执行任务之前和期间照顾宇航员，他在休斯顿任务控制中心工作。
But back in 2012, he had another gig as the doctor at the Amundsen-Scott Station at the South Pole.
但早在 2012 年，他又在南极阿蒙森-斯科特站担任医生。
When he got there, they told him this story.
当他到达那里时，他们告诉了他这个故事。
I think it was probably the station manager.
我想这可能是站长。
It's the story that's told.
这就是所讲述的故事。
Is this the first story they tell every doctor who gets this job?
这是他们告诉每位获得这份工作的医生的第一个故事吗？
Pretty much.
差不多了。
Ira Glass They tell doctors this story because it is the most spectacular thing anyone has ever done in this kind of job.
Ira Glass 他们告诉医生这个故事，因为这是任何人在此类工作中做过的最壮观的事情。
The story goes like this.
故事是这样的。
In 1961, a Russian doctor got appendicitis at a Soviet Antarctic station, and so he needed emergency surgery to remove his appendix or he would probably die.
1961年，一名俄罗斯医生在苏联南极站患上阑尾炎，需要紧急手术切除阑尾，否则他很可能就会死亡。
And he was the one doctor there, snowed in during a blizzard.
他是那里唯一一位在暴风雪中被雪困住的医生。
And so he had to figure out what to do.
所以他必须弄清楚该怎么做。
And so this Russian, a 27-year-old surgeon named Leonid Rogozov removed his own appendix and lived.
就这样，这位名叫列昂尼德·罗戈佐夫 (Leonid Rogozov) 的 27 岁俄罗斯外科医生切除了自己的阑尾并活了下来。
Could you perform this procedure on yourself?
您可以自己执行此程序吗？
Oh, hell, no. [LAUGHS] I guess if my life depended on it, I'd rather die trying than give up.
哦，见鬼，不。 [笑]我想如果我的生命依赖于此，我宁愿死也不愿放弃。
Dr. Roden isn't a surgeon, though.
不过，罗登医生不是外科医生。
And so to try to understand just how difficult this would be, I turned to a surgeon and associate professor at the Harvard Medical School named Doug Smink, who hadn't heard this story.
因此，为了试图了解这到底有多困难，我向哈佛医学院的外科医生兼副教授道格·斯明克求助，他没有听说过这个故事。
But he's written a lot about appendectomies for textbooks and medical journals, and he's performed the procedure a lot.
但他在教科书和医学期刊上写了很多关于阑尾切除术的文章，而且他也做过很多次手术。
Probably 200 to 300 times, at least, maybe more.
大概200到300次，至少，也许更多。
We have two accounts of this.
我们对此有两个说法。
There's a published report that the doctor wrote up in the Soviet Antarctic Expedition Information Bulletin.
这位医生在苏联南极考察信息公报上写了一份已发表的报告。
And then we have his--
然后我们有他的——
Are you calling him the patient or the surgeon?
你称他为病人还是外科医生？
You could call him either one, right?
你可以叫他任何一个，对吧？
Well, it's interesting because in his account, he goes back and forth between those things over and over again.
嗯，这很有趣，因为在他的叙述中，他一遍又一遍地在这些事情之间来回走动。
That's fascinating.
这很有趣。
Ira Glass So this is from his published account.
Ira Glass 这是来自他的公开帐户。
He says, "the symptoms noted were weakness, general malaise, later nausea.
他说，“注意到的症状是虚弱、全身不适，后来出现恶心。
Body temperature rose to 37 degrees centigrade," which is 99 Fahrenheit.
体温升至 37 摄氏度，即 99 华氏度。
And then he wrote in his diary, April 30, 1961, "I did not sleep at all last night.
1961 年 4 月 30 日，他在日记中写道：“我昨晚一夜没睡。
It hurts like the devil.
痛得像魔鬼一样。
A snow storm whipping through my soul, wailing like 100 jackals."
一场暴风雪席卷了我的灵魂，像一百只豺狼一样哀嚎。”
Sounds like appendicitis.
听起来像阑尾炎。
Ira Glass Dr. Roden, the doctor who performed medicine at the South Pole went a little further.
在南极行医的艾拉·格拉斯·罗登医生走得更远一些。
It sounds like a Russian.
听起来像俄罗斯人。
My wife and I have lived in Russia for over four years, off and on, with the space program and both speak Russian.
我和我的妻子已经在俄罗斯断断续续地生活了四年多，因为太空计划，我们都说俄语。
So it's just-- it's poetic.
所以它只是——它是诗意的。
It's perfect Russian.
这是完美的俄语。
This is from the diary.
这是日记里的内容。
"An oppressive feeling of foreboding hangs over me.
“一种不祥的预感笼罩着我。
This is it.
就是这样。
I have to think through the only possible way out, to operate on myself.
我必须想出唯一可能的出路，对自己进行手术。
It's almost impossible, but I can't just fold my arms and give up."
这几乎是不可能的，但我不能袖手旁观就放弃。”
And then, later that same day at 6:30 at night, "The guys have found out.
然后，当天晚些时候，晚上 6:30，“人们发现了。
They keep coming by to calm me down.
他们不断过来让我平静下来。
And I'm upset with myself.
我对自己感到不安。
I've spoiled everyone's holiday.
我破坏了大家的假期。
Tomorrow's May Day and everybody is running around preparing the autoclave.
明天五一劳动节，大家都在忙着准备高压灭菌器。
We have to sterilize the bedding because we're going to operate."
我们必须对床上用品进行消毒，因为我们要进行手术。”
And then he explains which person is going to do what.
然后他解释了哪个人将做什么。
A meteorologist is going to hold retractors, a driver is going to hold a mirror, and then, just in case one of those two guys who's never witnessed an operation passes out, another guy was on standby to jump in.
一名气象学家将握住伸缩器，一名司机将握住一面镜子，然后，以防万一这两个从未目睹过操作的人中的一个昏倒，另一个人随时准备跳进去。
"In the event that the patient lost consciousness"-- he switches to third person and refers to himself as the patient, "they were instructed to inject the drugs in the syringes that I had prepared and to administer artificial respiration."
“如果病人失去知觉”——他用第三人称称呼自己为病人，“他们被指示用我准备好的注射器注射药物，并进行人工呼吸。”
Oh, geez.
哦，天啊。
Ira Glass He writes, "The position of the patient at operation was designed to make it possible for him to perform the operation with minimal use of the mirror." And to do that, basically, they'd prop him up on his back.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 写道：“手术时患者的位置经过精心设计，使他能够在最少使用镜子的情况下完成手术。”为了做到这一点，基本上，他们会把他背起来。
Right.
正确的。
Ira Glass He's leaning on one hip.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：他靠在一侧臀部。
Well, I'm just looking down at my own abdomen and trying to figure out how-- I know where I would make an incision.
好吧，我只是低头看着自己的腹部，试图弄清楚如何——我知道在哪里做一个切口。
But to then see deeper down in the deeper layers would be a challenge.
但要深入了解更深层的情况将是一个挑战。
I'm sure that's where the mirror came in.
我确信这就是镜子的用武之地。
It probably was also just really uncomfortable to sit in that position for two hours and try to work.
坐在那个位置两个小时并尝试工作可能也真的很不舒服。
I can only imagine.
我只能想象。
I'm going to read from the diary.
我要读日记。
"My poor assistants.
“我可怜的助手们。
At the last minute, I looked over at them.
在最后一刻，我回头看了看他们。
They stood there in their surgical whites, whiter than white themselves.
他们穿着外科手术服站在那里，比他们自己还要白。
I was scared, too.
我也很害怕。
When I picked up the needle with the Novocain and gave myself the first injection, somehow I automatically switched into operating mode and from that point on, I didn't notice anything else."
当我拿起奴佛卡因针头并给自己进行第一次注射时，不知怎的，我自动切换到操作模式，从那时起，我没有注意到其他任何事情。”
Wow.
哇。
That's amazing.
太棒了。
Almost like an out-of-body experience, it sounds like he had.
听起来就像是一次灵魂出窍的经历。
"I worked without gloves.
“我工作时没有戴手套。
It was hard to see.
很难看到。
The mirror helps, but it also hinders.
镜子有帮助，但也有阻碍。
After all, it's showing things backwards.
毕竟，它正在倒退地展示事物。
I work mainly by touch.
我主要靠触摸来工作。
The bleeding is quite heavy, but I take my time.
出血量很大，但我慢慢来。
I try to work surely."
我努力工作。”
The other thing to remember in this is that not only is he just operating on himself, but he is quite ill.
另一件要记住的事情是，他不仅是在给自己做手术，而且他病得很重。
Patients who have appendicitis don't feel like doing anything.
患有阑尾炎的患者不想做任何事情。
They just want to curl up in bed and hope somebody will make them better.
他们只想蜷缩在床上，希望有人能让他们好起来。
So to actually have to function and think clearly, both function physically and mentally, is amazing.
因此，能够真正发挥作用并清晰思考，无论是身体上还是精神上，都是令人惊奇的。
It's just amazing.
这真是太棒了。
In fact, Rogozov spends most of the two-hour operation fighting off unconsciousness.
事实上，罗戈佐夫在两个小时的手术中大部分时间都在与昏迷作斗争。
After just 30 or 40 minutes, he wrote, he started to experience vertigo.
他写道，仅仅 30 或 40 分钟后，他就开始感到眩晕。
Every four or five minutes he had to stop and rest.
每隔四五分钟他就得停下来休息一下。
Dr. Smink explained to me that what happens in an appendectomy is you cut through the skin, then through a layer of fat, then three layers of muscle, then a layer of something called fascia.
斯明克医生向我解释说，阑尾切除术中会先切开皮肤，然后切开一层脂肪，然后切开三层肌肉，最后切开一层称为筋膜的东西。
And then, finally, there's the peritoneum.
最后是腹膜。
I describe it like a clear balloon.
我把它形容为一个透明的气球。
It's about that thin.
大约就是这么薄。
Inside that balloon are the intestines.
那个气球里面是肠子。
And you kind of poke around the intestines with your fingers to find the appendix.
你用手指在肠子周围戳一戳，找到阑尾。
The appendix is about the size of your pinky.
阑尾大约有小指那么大。
And so he's having to move his own intestines out of the way to find the appendix.
所以他必须把自己的肠子移开才能找到阑尾。
Exactly.
确切地。
By feel, which is actually how we do it, often, in an open appendectomy.
通过感觉，这实际上就是我们在开放式阑尾切除术中经常这样做的方式。
So he would have had experience with that.
所以他会有这方面的经验。
You basically feel around and you can feel what feels like a firm, almost like a sausage or something like that.
你基本上可以感觉到周围的东西，你可以感觉到像坚硬的东西，几乎像香肠或类似的东西。
And that is the appendix.
这就是附录。
But before Rogozov locates the appendix, he realizes that he accidentally tore into a part of the large intestine called the cecum and he has to sew it up.
但在罗戈佐夫找到阑尾之前，他意识到自己不小心撕破了大肠的盲肠部分，他必须将其缝合。
He wrote in his diary, "Suddenly it flashed in my mind there are more injuries here and I didn't notice them.
他在日记中写道：“突然我脑子里闪现出这里有更多的伤，但我没有注意到。
I grew weaker and weaker.
我变得越来越虚弱。
My head starts to spin.
我的头开始旋转。
Finally, here it is, the cursed appendage.
最后，这就是被诅咒的附属物。
With horror, I notice the dark stain at its base.
我惊恐地注意到它底部的黑色污点。
That means just a day longer and it would've burst."
这意味着只要再多一天，它就会破裂。”
And then, Rogozov doesn't write what is obvious to him-- that a burst appendix, he probably would have died.
然后，罗戈佐夫没有写出对他来说显而易见的事情——阑尾破裂，他可能会死。
Yeah.
是的。
I think he would have.
我想他会的。
I think he would have.
我想他会的。
Rogozov writes, "At the worst moment of removing the appendix, I flagged.
罗戈佐夫写道：“在切除阑尾的最糟糕时刻，我感到沮丧。
My heart seized up.
我的心揪了起来。
I noticeably slowed.
我明显放慢了速度。
My hands felt like rubber.
我的手感觉像橡胶一样。
Well, I thought, it's going to end badly." Then Rogozov doesn't say this explicitly, but Dr. Smink explained to me, in order to cut the appendix out, Rogozov would have pulled it out of his body with the stuff that it's attached to, like through the four-inch hole in his belly, and then he would have cut it off.
好吧，我想，这件事的结局会很糟糕。”然后罗戈佐夫没有明确地说出这一点，但斯明克医生向我解释说，为了切掉阑尾，罗戈佐夫会用它所附着的东西将它从他的身体中拉出来，比如通过他腹部上的四英寸洞，然后他会把它切掉。
Which of course, he did successfully.
当然，他成功了。
Fully recovered in two weeks, then back on the job.
两周后完全康复，然后重返工作岗位。
What's the most impressive part of this to you?
这其中给你印象最深刻的部分是什么？
There are so many parts that are impressive to me.
有很多部分让我印象深刻。
Probably most impressive to me, though, is what is the mental aspect of this.
不过，对我来说最令人印象深刻的是它的精神层面。
And he obviously had the perfect personality to pull this off.
他显然拥有完美的个性来实现这一目标。
And then to have the courage, but also the wherewithal to assemble a team and explain to them what they were going to do while he had appendicitis.
然后要有勇气，还要有必要的资金来组建一个团队，并向他们解释当他患有阑尾炎时他们要做什么。
That's the thing.
就是这样。
When I read this, I can't tell, well, could most surgeons do this or was he special?
当我读到这篇文章时，我不知道大多数外科医生都能做到这一点，还是他很特别？
I think many people would be really uncomfortable doing it on themselves or would not be able to remain composed while also the patient.
我认为很多人自己做这件事会感到非常不舒服，或者在病人的时候也无法保持镇静。
Could you do this?
你能做到这一点吗？
Doug Smink Well, as we were talking, I was trying to think if I could.
道格·斯明克（Doug Smink）：好吧，当我们谈话时，我正在思考我是否可以。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I think you would never know until you were put in that situation.
我认为除非你处于那种情况，否则你永远不会知道。
I'd like to think I could, if given no other option.
如果没有其他选择，我想我可以。
Of course, we all would like to believe that we would measure up if we were tested like this at something.
当然，我们都愿意相信，如果我们在某件事上接受这样的测试，我们就能达到要求。
Today on our program, we have two stories of people who put themselves into the kinds of situations where they are tested, doing things that are dangerous sometimes, doing the kinds of things where most of us would say, let somebody else do that one.
今天，在我们的节目中，我们有两个故事，讲述的是人们将自己置于各种考验的境地，有时做一些危险的事情，做我们大多数人都会说的事情，让别人去做吧。
But these people just had to take it on themselves.
但这些人只能自己承担。
They do it themselves.
他们自己做。
Act 1 of our show is about somebody who decides to protect the border.
我们节目的第一幕是关于一个人决定保护边境的故事。
Act 2 is about somebody who decides to run guns over a border.
第二幕讲述的是一个人决定将枪支越过边境。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act 1, "Line in the Sand." After he got out of college, Francisco Cantu decided that he wanted to become a Border Patrol agent, which his family did not understand at all.
第一幕，“沙中线”。大学毕业后，弗朗西斯科·坎图决定成为一名边境巡逻人员，但他的家人根本不理解。
But he had his reasons for stepping up.
但他有他挺身而出的理由。
And he did the job for four years and ended up writing about the experience.
他做了四年的工作，最后写下了这段经历。
And his account was interesting to me and a bunch of us here at the radio show because he takes you inside in this way that does not seem to fit the usual ways that people talk about the border.
他的叙述对我和我们广播节目中的一群人来说很有趣，因为他以这种方式带你进去，这似乎不符合人们谈论边界的通常方式。
It kind of sidesteps all the usual politics of the border.
它有点回避了所有常见的边境政治。
He's just documenting things.
他只是在记录事情。
A lot of it is just random stuff that happened and that he saw while patrolling the border and during his training.
其中很多只是他在边境巡逻和训练期间看到的随机发生的事情。
Here he is.
他在这里。
Robles ordered us from the mat room into the spinning room and we each took our place atop a stationary bicycle.
罗伯斯命令我们从垫子室进入动感单车室，我们每个人都坐在一辆固定自行车上。
At the front of the room, Robles climbed atop a machine that had been situated to face us and shouted for us to begin pedaling.
在房间的前面，罗伯斯爬上一台面向我们的机器，大声叫我们开始踩踏板。
At no point should your legs stop moving, he yelled.
他喊道，你的腿在任何时候都不能停止移动。
When I say stand, lift your ass off the seat and keep it in the air until I tell you to sit.
当我说站起来时，请将你的屁股从座位上抬起并保持在空中，直到我告诉你坐下。
He snapped his head towards a stout man in the front row named Hanson.
他猛地把头转向前排一个名叫汉森的粗壮男人。
Is that clear, Mr. Hanson?
明白了吗，汉森先生？
Yes, sir, Hanson shouted, already out of breath.
是的，先生，汉森喊道，已经气喘吁吁了。
As the minutes passed, Robles prodded us to work harder.
随着时间的流逝，罗伯斯鼓励我们更加努力地工作。
Sit, he shouted, move those legs, stand.
坐下，他喊道，移动双腿，站起来。
Your body is a tool, he announced, the most important one you have.
他宣布，你的身体是一种工具，是你拥有的最重要的工具。
A baton is nothing, a taser is nothing.
警棍不算什么，泰瑟枪也不算什么。
Even your gun is nothing if you give up on your body when it becomes tired.
如果你在身体疲惫时放弃了，即使你的枪也毫无用处。
If you can't hold it together when every muscle cries out for you to quit.
如果当每一块肌肉都在呼唤你放弃时，你却无法坚持下去。
In the Border Patrol, Robles continued, you will be tested, I can promise you that.
罗伯斯继续说，在边境巡逻队，你将受到考验，我可以向你保证。
In my time, I have taken a life and I've saved a life.
在我的时代，我夺走了一条生命，也拯救了一条生命。
When I was brand new to the field, like all of you will be, my journeymen and I jumped a group of Salvadorians in the lettuce fields outside Yuma.
当我刚进入这个领域时，就像你们所有人一样，我和我的熟练工在尤马郊外的生菜田里跳过了一群萨尔瓦多人。
A man ran from us and I chased after him until I thought my legs would give out.
一个男人从我们身边跑开，我追赶他，直到我觉得我的腿快要废了。
I stumbled and tripped over dirt berms and rows of lettuce, but I kept chasing him until we came to the edge of the canal and the man turned to face me.
我被泥土护堤和成排的生菜绊倒，但我一直追着他，直到我们来到运河边缘，那个人转过身来面对我。
He came at me before I could react and we went to the ground fighting.
我还没来得及反应，他就向我扑来，我们就陷入了地面战斗。
If I'd given up, maybe the man would have killed me, but I didn't.
如果我放弃，也许那个人会杀了我，但我没有。
I grappled with him in the dirt until I kicked him over the edge of the canal into the water.
我在泥土中与他扭打，直到我把他踢到运河边缘，进入水中。
The man couldn't swim.
那人不会游泳。
None of them can.
他们都不能。
And so an hour later, me and my journeyman fished his dead body out of the water at a buoy line.
一小时后，我和我的熟练工通过浮标线将他的尸体从水中捞出。
Robles's eyes seemed to detach from his surroundings, like his gaze had turned inward.
罗伯斯的目光似乎脱离了周围的环境，目光转向了内心。
A year after that, he continued, I chased another man to the banks of the Colorado River.
一年后，他继续说道，我追着另一个人到了科罗拉多河岸边。
He ran out into the water and was swept away by the current like it was nothing.
他跑进水里，就像什么都没有一样被水流卷走。
And I'll tell you what I did.
我会告诉你我做了什么。
I battled to keep him afloat, even as I inhaled mouthfuls of water, even though I can't remember ever having been more tired.
我努力让他浮在水面上，尽管我吸入了一口水，尽管我不记得曾经如此疲倦过。
I save that man's life.
我救了那个人的命。
And still, there's not a single day I don't think about the one I took before it.
尽管如此，我没有一天不想起之前的经历。
As Robles fell silent, we stood sweating over our bikes, our legs pedaling weakly.
当罗伯斯陷入沉默时，我们站在自行车上，大汗淋漓，双腿无力地踩着踏板。
In the front row, I saw Hanson's head dip, his ass falling to the seat.
在前排，我看到汉森低着头，屁股跌倒在座位上。
Robles snapped his gaze from the middle of the room and turned his head towards Hanson.
罗伯斯从房间中央扫了一眼，转头看向汉森。
Get back up there, he roared.
回到上面去，他咆哮道。
Don't give up on me, Mr. Hanson.
不要放弃我，汉森先生。
Do not give up.
不放弃。
As the sound of our labored breathing settled back over the room, I thought briefly of the man from El Salvador and I wondered how the news of his death might have arrived to his family.
当我们费力的呼吸声重新回到房间里时，我短暂地想起了那个来自萨尔瓦多的男人，我想知道他的死讯是如何传到他的家人那里的。
I watched Robles standing tall over his bicycle at the front of the room, dripping sweat.
我看到罗伯斯高高地站在房间前面的自行车上，大汗淋漓。
I wondered if he thought of his body as a tool for destruction or as one for keeping people safe.
我想知道他是否认为自己的身体是一种破坏工具，还是一种保护人们安全的工具。
I wondered about my body, about what sort of tool it was becoming.
我想知道我的身体，想知道它正在变成什么样的工具。
My mother flew in from Arizona to see me for Christmas.
我妈妈从亚利桑那州飞过来看我过圣诞节。
She picked me up from the Academy on Christmas Eve and we drove up into the Evergreen Mountains of southern New Mexico.
圣诞节前夕，她从学院接我，我们开车前往新墨西哥州南部的常青山脉。
We stayed the night in a cabin and stayed up late, laughing, until the conversation finally descended into a discussion of my impending work.
我们在一间小木屋里过夜，笑着熬夜，直到谈话最后变成了对我即将进行的工作的讨论。
Listen, my mother said, I spent most of my career as a park ranger, so I've got nothing against you working for the government.
听着，我母亲说，我职业生涯的大部分时间都是作为公园管理员度过的，所以我并不反对你为政府工作。
But don't you think it's sort of below you, earning a degree just to become a border cop?
但你不认为仅仅为了成为一名边境警察而获得学位就有点低人一等吗？
I don't really understand what you want from this work.
我不太明白你想从这份工作中得到什么。
I took a deep breath.
我深吸了一口气。
Look, I told her, I spent four years in college studying the border.
我告诉她，我在大学花了四年时间研究边境。
I'm tired of reading about it.
我厌倦了阅读它。
I want to be on the ground, out in the field.
我想要脚踏实地，在野外。
I want to see the realities of the border, day in and day out.
我想日复一日地看到边境的现实。
I don't see any better way to truly understand the place.
我看不出有什么更好的方式来真正了解这个地方。
My mother stared at me.
我妈妈盯着我看。
Are you crazy?
你疯了？
She asked.
她问道。
There are 100 other ways of knowing a place.
了解一个地方还有 100 种其他方式。
You grew up near the border.
你在边境附近长大。
It's in our blood, for Christ's sake.
看在上帝的份上，它就在我们的血液里。
Your great-grandparents brought my father across the border from Mexico when he was just a little boy.
当我父亲还是个小男孩时，你的曾祖父母就把他从墨西哥带到了边境。
I kept my maiden name and passed it on to you so that you'd always carry that heritage.
我保留了我的婚前姓氏并将其传给了你，这样你就可以永远继承这一传统。
I lowered my voice.
我压低了声音。
I'm grateful for those things, I told her, but having a name isn't the same as understanding a place.
我对这些事情很感激，我告诉她，但拥有一个名字并不等于了解一个地方。
Do you remember, I asked my mother, how you joined the Park Service because you wanted to be outdoors?
我问妈妈，你还记得你是如何加入公园管理局的，因为你想出去玩吗？
Because you felt you could understand yourself in wild places?
因为你觉得在野外你能理解自己？
It's not that different, I said.
我说，没什么不同。
There's something here I can't look away from.
这里有一些东西我无法将目光移开。
Maybe it's the desert, maybe it's the closeness of life and death, maybe it's the tension between the two cultures we carry.
也许是沙漠，也许是生与死的亲密，也许是我们所承载的两种文化之间的紧张关系。
Whatever it is, I'll never understand it unless I'm close to it.
不管它是什么，除非我接近它，否则我永远不会理解它。
My mother shook her head.
我妈妈摇摇头。
There are ways to learn these things that don't put you at risk.
有多种方法可以学习这些知识，而且不会让您面临风险。
You make it sound like you'll be communing with nature and having heartfelt conversations all day.
你听起来就像你将与大自然交流并进行一整天的真诚对话。
The Border Patrol isn't the Park Service.
边境巡逻队不是公园管理局。
It's a paramilitary police force.
这是一支准军事警察部队。
Listen, I said, I know you don't want your only son turning into a heartless cop.
听着，我说，我知道你不希望你唯一的儿子变成一个无情的警察。
I know you're afraid the job will turn me into someone brutal and callous.
我知道你担心这份工作会让我变得残酷无情。
But that's not me.
但那不是我。
And those aren't the kind of people that I see at the Academy.
这些人不是我在学院看到的那种人。
Nearly half my classmates are Hispanic.
我的同学中有近一半是西班牙裔。
Some of them grew up right on the border.
他们中的一些人就在边境长大。
I speak both languages.
我会说两种语言。
I know both cultures.
我了解两种文化。
I've lived in Mexico and traveled all across it.
我住在墨西哥并走遍了整个墨西哥。
I'll help people.
我会帮助人们。
I explained to my mother that good people would always be crossing the border and whether I was in the Border Patrol or not, agents would still be out there arresting them.
我向母亲解释说，好人总是会越过边境，无论我是否在边境巡逻队，特工仍然会在那里逮捕他们。
At least if I'm the one apprehending them, I can offer them some small comfort by speaking with them in their own language, by talking to them with knowledge of their home.
至少，如果我是逮捕他们的人，我可以通过用他们自己的语言与他们交谈，通过了解他们的家乡来与他们交谈，从而为他们提供一些小小的安慰。
Fine, my mother said.
好吧，我妈妈说。
Fine.
美好的。
But you must understand, you are stepping into a system with little regard for people.
但你必须明白，你正在步入一个不尊重人的系统。
For several moments, silence hung between us.
有好一会儿，我们之间陷入了沉默。
I said, I'm not going to become someone else.
我说过，我不会成为别人。
After graduating from the Academy, we were deployed to our respective field stations.
从学院毕业后，我们被分配到各自的外勤站。
We caught our first dope load only two days after arriving on duty.
我们到达值班后仅两天就发现了第一批毒品。
They must have seen us coming across the desert, said Cole, our supervisor.
“他们肯定看到我们穿过沙漠了，”我们的主管科尔说。
We fanned out to comb the hillsides, and after 10 minutes, we had recovered two backpacks filled with food and clothes, and four additional bundles wrapped in sugar sacks spray painted black.
我们分散开来，在山坡上搜寻，十分钟后，我们找到了两个装满食物和衣服的背包，还有四包包裹在喷漆成黑色的糖袋里的东西。
Those ought to be about 50 pounds each, Cole said.
科尔说，每个应该重约 50 磅。
He kicked one of the bundles with his foot.
他用脚踢了一捆包裹。
250 pounds of dope.
250磅毒品。
Not bad for your second day in the field.
对于你在现场的第二天来说还不错。
I asked Cole if we should follow their trail up into the pass, if we should try to track down the backpackers.
我问科尔我们是否应该沿着他们的踪迹进入山口，是否应该尝试追踪背包客。
Hell, no, he said.
见鬼，不，他说。
You don't want to bring in any bodies with your dope, if you can help it.
如果可以的话，你不想把任何尸体和你的毒品一起带进来。
Suspects mean you have a smuggling case on your hands and that's a hell of a lot of paperwork.
嫌疑人意味着你手上有一个走私案，而且需要大量的文书工作。
We'd have to stay and work a double shift just to write it up.
我们必须留下来两班倒才能把它写下来。
He smiled.
他笑了。
Abandoned loads are easy, though.
不过，废弃的货物很容易。
You'll see.
你会看到的。
Cole had us dump the backpacks and I watched as several of my classmates ripped and tore the clothing, scattering it among the tangled branches of mesquite and palo verde.
科尔让我们把背包倒掉，我看着我的几个同学撕扯着衣服，把它撒在豆科灌木和帕洛维迪纠缠的树枝上。
In one of the backpacks, I found a laminated prayer card depicting Saint Jude, a tongue of flames hovering above his head.
在其中一个背包里，我发现了一张层压祈祷卡，上面画着圣裘德，一条火舌盘旋在他的头顶上。
Morales found a pack of cigarettes and sat smoking on a rock as others laughed loudly, stepping on a heap of food.
莫拉莱斯找到一包香烟，坐在一块岩石上抽烟，其他人则踩着一堆食物放声大笑。
Nearby, Hart giggled and shouted to us as he pissed on a pile of ransacked belongings.
在附近，哈特一边在一堆被洗劫一空的物品上撒尿，一边咯咯地笑着并向我们大喊。
As we hiked with the bundles back to the vehicles, the February sun grew low in the sky, casting a warm light across the desert.
当我们带着包裹走回车上时，二月的太阳在天空中渐渐低垂，在沙漠上投射出温暖的光芒。
After sundown, Cole sent Morales up a hill near the highway with a thermal reconnaissance camera.
日落后，科尔派莫拉莱斯带着热侦察相机爬上高速公路附近的一座小山。
Let me borrow your beanie, vato, he said to me.
让我借用你的无檐小便帽，vato，他对我说。
It's cold out.
外面很冷。
I handed it to him and stayed inside the vehicle with the others.
我把它交给他，然后和其他人一起呆在车里。
An hour later, Morales spotted a group of 10 just east of mile marker five.
一小时后，莫拉莱斯在五英里标记以东发现了一群 10 人。
We rushed out of the car and set out on foot as he guided us in on the radio.
我们冲下车，步行出发，他通过广播引导我们进去。
But by the time we got there, the group had already scattered.
但当我们到达那里时，队伍已经散了。
We found them one by one, huddled in the brush and curled up around the trunks of mesquite trees and cholla cactus.
我们一一发现了它们，它们挤在灌木丛中，蜷缩在豆科灌木和全罗仙人掌的树干周围。
Not one of them ran.
他们没有一个人跑。
We made them take off their shoelaces so they couldn't run from us and we sorted through their backpacks, checking for weapons and throwing out their food.
我们让他们脱掉鞋带，这样他们就无法从我们身边逃跑，我们整理他们的背包，检查是否有武器并扔掉他们的食物。
We walked all 10 of them single file back to the road.
我们一行十个人排成一列走回路上。
For a while, I walked next to an older man who told me they were all from Michoacan.
有一阵子，我走在一位年长的男人旁边，他告诉我他们都来自米却肯州。
It's beautiful there, I said.
那里很漂亮，我说。
Yes, he replied, but there is no work.
是的，他回答道，但是没有工作。
You've been to Michoacan?
你去过米却肯州吗？
He asked.
他问道。
I told him I had.
我告诉他我有。
Then you must have seen what it is to live in Mexico, he said.
“那么你一定已经了解了墨西哥的生活是什么样的，”他说。
And now you see what it's like for us at the border.
现在你可以看到我们在边境的情况了。
We walked silently next to each other and then, after several minutes, he sighed deeply.
我们默默地并肩而行，几分钟后，他深深地叹了口气。
Hay mucha desesperación, he told me, almost whispering.
Hay mucha desesperación，他几乎是低声告诉我。
I tried to look at his face, but it was too dark.
我试图看他的脸，但太黑了。
At the station, I processed the man for deportation.
在车站，我为这名男子办理了驱逐出境手续。
After I'd taken his fingerprints, he asked me if there was any work for him.
我按了他的指纹后，他问我是否有适合他的工作。
You don't understand, I said.
你不明白，我说。
You've just got to wait here until the bus comes.
你只要在这里等公共汽车就可以了。
They'll take you to the headquarters and then onto the border.
他们会带你到总部，然后到边境。
You'll be back in Mexico very soon.
你很快就会回到墨西哥。
I understand, he assured me.
我明白，他向我保证。
I just want to know if there's something I can do while I wait, something to help.
我只是想知道在等待期间我是否可以做点什么，可以提供帮助。
I can take out the trash or clean out the cells.
我可以倒垃圾或清理牢房。
I want to show you that I'm here to work, that I'm not a bad person.
我想让你知道我是来工作的，我不是一个坏人。
I'm not here to bring in drugs.
我不是来这里带毒品的
I'm not here to do anything illegal.
我来这里不是为了做任何违法的事情。
I want to work.
我想工作。
There are days when I feel I'm becoming good at what I do.
有时候，我感觉自己在做的事情上变得越来越擅长。
And then I wonder, what does it mean to be good at this?
然后我想知道，擅长这一点意味着什么？
I wonder sometimes how I might explain certain things, the sense in what we do when they run from us, scattering into the brush, leaving behind their water jugs and their backpacks full of food and clothes.
有时我想知道我该如何解释某些事情，当他们逃离我们，散入灌木丛，留下他们的水壶和装满食物和衣服的背包时，我们所做的事情的意义。
How to explain what we do when we discover their lay up spots, stocked with water and stashed rations.
如何解释当我们发现他们的停泊点、备有水和口粮时我们会做什么。
Of course, what you do depends on who you're with.
当然，你做什么取决于你和谁在一起。
It depends on what kind of agent you are, what kind of agent you want to become.
这取决于你是什么类型的代理人，你想成为什么样的代理人。
But it's true that we slash their bottles and drain their water into the dry earth.
但我们确实砍掉了他们的瓶子，把他们的水排进了干燥的土地。
That we dump their backpacks and pile their food and clothes to be crushed and pissed on and stepped over, strewn across the desert floor and set ablaze.
我们扔掉他们的背包，堆放他们的食物和衣服，让他们被压碎、撒尿、踩踏，散落在沙漠地面上，然后被点燃。
Look, it sounds terrible, and maybe it is.
听着，这听起来很可怕，也许确实如此。
But the idea is that when that come out from their hiding places, when they regroup and return to find their stockpiles ransacked and stripped, they'll realize their situation, that they're [BLEEP].
但我们的想法是，当他们从藏身之处出来时，当他们重新集结并返回时发现他们的库存被洗劫一空时，他们会意识到自己的处境，他们[BLEEP]。
That it's hopeless to continue.
说继续下去是没有希望的。
And they'll quit right then and there.
他们就会立刻退出。
They'll save themselves and struggle towards the nearest highway or dirt road to flag down some passing agent.
他们会自救并努力走向最近的高速公路或土路，以拦住路过的特工。
Or they'll head for the nearest parched village to knock on someone's door.
或者他们会前往最近的干旱村庄去敲某人的门。
Someone who will give them food and water and call us to take them in.
有人会给他们食物和水，并打电话给我们收留他们。
That's the idea, the sense in it all.
这就是这个想法，这一切的意义。
But still, I have nightmares, visions of them staggering through the desert, men from Michoacan, from places I've known.
但我仍然会做噩梦，梦见他们摇摇晃晃地穿过沙漠，这些人来自米却肯州，来自我所熟悉的地方。
Men lost and wandering without food or water, dying slowly as they look for some road, some village, some way out.
人们在没有食物和水的情况下迷路、徘徊，在寻找道路、村庄、出路时慢慢死去。
In my dreams, I seek them out, searching in vain until finally, I discover their bodies lying face down on the ground before me, dead and stinking on the desert floor.
在梦中，我寻找他们，徒劳无功，直到最后，我发现他们的尸体面朝下躺在我面前的地上，死在沙漠的地面上，散发着恶臭。
Human waypoints in a vast and smoldering expanse.
人类在广阔而阴燃的区域中的路径点。
After three months, we were finally released from the training unit and dispersed into rotating shifts to work under journeyman agents.
三个月后，我们终于从培训单位放出来，分到轮班，在熟练特工手下工作。
I was partnered with Mortenson, a four-year veteran of the patrol.
我的搭档是摩顿森，他是一名有四年巡逻经验的老兵。
Early one morning, before dawn, Mortenson brought me to the port of entry and we arrested a woman who'd cut a hole in the pedestrian fence.
一天清晨，黎明前，摩顿森带我到入境口岸，我们逮捕了一名在人行围栏上挖洞的妇女。
As Mortenson inspected the breach, the girl wept beside me, telling me it was her birthday, that she had just turned 23, pleading for me to let her go and swearing she would never cross again.
当莫顿森检查突破口时，那个女孩在我旁边哭泣，告诉我今天是她的生日，她刚刚满 23 岁，恳求我放她走，并发誓她再也不会穿越了。
Mortenson took a long look at the woman and laughed.
摩顿森久久地看着这个女人，笑了。
I booked her last week, he said.
“我上周预订了她，”他说。
The woman spoke hurriedly as we walked back to the parking lot.
当我们走回停车场时，那个女人匆忙地说。
While Mortenson went inside the port of entry, she told me she was from Guadalajara, that she had some problems there.
当莫顿森进入入境口岸时，她告诉我她来自瓜达拉哈拉，她在那里遇到了一些问题。
That she had already tried four times to cross.
她已经尝试过四次穿越。
She swore to me that she would stay in Mexico for good this time, that she would finally go back and finish music school.
她向我发誓，这次她会永远留在墨西哥，她最终会回去完成音乐学校的学业。
Te lo juro, she said.
Te lo juro，她说。
I promise.
我保证。
She looked at me and smiled.
她看着我，微笑着。
Someday, I'm going to be a singer, you know.
有一天，我会成为一名歌手，你知道的。
I believe it, I said, smiling back.
我相信，我微笑着说道。
She told me that she thought I was nice and before Mortensen returned, she snuck her counterfeit green card into my hand.
她告诉我，她认为我很好，在莫滕森回来之前，她把假绿卡塞到了我手里。
I don't want to get in trouble at the processing center like last time, she said.
“我不想像上次一样在处理中心遇到麻烦，”她说。
I slipped the card into my pocket.
我把卡塞进口袋里。
When Mortenson came back, we helped her into the patrol vehicle and drove north towards the station, laughing and applauding as she sang "Bidi Bidi Bom Bom" to us from the back seat.
当莫顿森回来时，我们扶她上了巡逻车，向北驶向车站，当她在后座给我们唱“Bidi Bidi Bom Bom”时，我们笑着鼓掌。
She's going to be a singer, I told Mortenson.
我告诉摩顿森，她将成为一名歌手。
The woman beamed.
女人笑容满面。
Well, [BLEEP], he said, she already is.
好吧，[哔]，他说，她已经是了。
Morales was the first to hear him screaming in the distance from one of the spider roads.
莫拉莱斯是第一个听到他在远处蜘蛛道上尖叫的人。
He hiked for a mile or two and found the kid lying on the ground hysterical.
他徒步走了一两英里，发现孩子歇斯底里地躺在地上。
The coyote who left him there told him he was holding back the group and handed him half a liter of water, pointing to some hills in the distance, telling him to walk at them until he found a road.
把他留在那儿的郊狼告诉他，他正在阻止这群人，并递给他半升水，指着远处的一些山丘，告诉他朝它们走去，直到找到一条路。
When I arrived with the water, the kid was on the ground next to Morales, lurching in the shade and crying like a child.
当我带着水到达时，那个孩子躺在莫拉莱斯旁边的地上，在树荫下摇摇晃晃，像个孩子一样哭泣。
The kid was fat.
孩子本来就胖。
His pants sagged from his ass and his fly was half open, his zipper broken.
他的裤子从屁股上垂了下来，门襟半开着，拉链也坏了。
His shirt hung loosely from his shoulders, inside out and torn and soaked in sweat.
他的衬衫松松垮垮地从肩膀上垂下来，里面翻了个底朝天，撕破了，被汗水浸湿了。
Morales looked at me and smiled, and then turned to the kid.
莫拉莱斯看着我微笑，然后转向那个孩子。
Your water is here, gordo.
你的水在这里，戈多。
I kneeled next to him and handed him the gallon jug.
我跪在他旁边，把一加仑的水罐递给他。
He took a sip and began to pant and groan.
他喝了一口，开始喘息和呻吟。
Drink more, I said, but drink slowly.
我说，多喝一点，但要慢慢喝。
I can't, he moaned.
我不能，他呻吟道。
I'm going to die.
我要死了。
No, you're not, I told him.
不，你不是，我告诉他。
You're still sweating.
你还在出汗。
After the kid drank some water, we helped him up and tried walking him through the thicket toward the road.
孩子喝了一些水后，我们把他扶起来，试着带他穿过灌木丛，朝马路走去。
He lagged and staggered, crying out behind us.
他步履蹒跚，在我们身后大声喊叫。
Ay oficial, he would moan.
官员啊，他会呻吟。
No puedo, I can't.
没有普埃多，我不能。
As we crouched and barged through tangled branches, I slowly became overwhelmed by his panic, until finally we broke out of the thicket and spotted the dirt road.
当我们蹲下并穿过纠缠的树枝时，我慢慢地被他的惊慌所淹没，直到最后我们冲出了灌木丛，发现了土路。
You see the trucks, gordo?
你看到卡车了吗，戈多？
Can you make it that far?
你能做到那么远吗？
Maybe we should just leave you here.
也许我们应该把你留在这里。
No puedes, verdad?
没有puedes，verdad？
On the ride back to the station, the kid regained some composure.
在返回车站的路上，孩子恢复了一些平静。
He told me that he was 18, that he planned to go to Oregon to sell heroin.
他告诉我，他18岁了，打算去俄勒冈州贩卖海洛因。
I hear you can make a lot of money that way, he said.
我听说这样可以赚很多钱，他说。
Agents found a man named Martin Ubalda de la Vega and his three companions on the bombing range 10 miles west of the highway.
特工在高速公路以西 10 英里的轰炸范围内发现了一名名叫马丁·乌巴尔达·德拉·维加 (Martin Ubalda de la Vega) 的男子和他的三名同伴。
The four men had been in the desert for six days and had wandered in the July heat for more than 48 hours without food or water.
这四名男子已经在沙漠里待了六天，并在七月的酷暑中徘徊了超过 48 个小时，没有食物和水。
By the time of rescue, one of the men had already met his death.
到救援时，其中一名男子已经死亡。
One was quickly treated and discharged from the hospital.
一名患者很快得到治疗并出院。
Another remained in intensive care, recently awoken from a coma, unable to remember his own name.
另一名患者仍在重症监护室，最近从昏迷中醒来，无法记住自己的名字。
When I arrived at the hospital asking for the third survivor, nurses explained that he was recovering from kidney failure and guided me to his room.
当我到达医院询问第三位幸存者时，护士解释说他正在从肾衰竭中恢复，并带我去了他的房间。
I had been charged with watching over de la Vega until his condition was stable, at which point I would transport him to the station to be processed for deportation.
我的职责是看护德拉维加，直到他的病情稳定为止，届时我将把他运送到车站接受驱逐出境的程序。
I settled in a chair next to him and after several moments of silence, I asked him to tell me about himself.
我坐在他旁边的椅子上，沉默了一会儿后，我请他向我介绍一下他自己。
He answered timidly, as if unsure of how to speak.
他怯生生地回答，似乎不知道该如何开口。
He apologized for his Spanish, explaining that he only knew what they had taught him in school.
他为自己的西班牙语道歉，并解释说他只知道他们在学校教他的东西。
He came from the jungles of Guerrero, he told me, and in his village, they spoke Mixtec and farmed the green earth.
他告诉我，他来自格雷罗州的丛林，在他的村庄里，他们说米斯特克语，耕种绿色的土地。
He was the father of seven children, he said.
他说，他是七个孩子的父亲。
Five girls and two boys.
五个女孩和两个男孩。
His eldest daughter lived in California and he had crossed the border with plans to go live with her and find work.
他的大女儿住在加利福尼亚州，他已经越过边境，计划去和她住在一起并找工作。
We spent the following hours watching telenovelas and occasionally, he would turn to ask me about the women in America, wondering if they were like the ones on TV.
接下来的几个小时我们都在看电视剧，偶尔他会问我关于美国女性的情况，想知道她们是否像电视上的那样。
He began to tell me about his youngest daughter, still in Mexico.
他开始向我讲述他仍在墨西哥的小女儿的事。
She just turned 18, he said.
他说，她刚满 18 岁。
You could marry her.
你可以娶她。
Later that afternoon, de la Vega was cleared for release.
当天下午晚些时候，德拉维加获准释放。
The nurse brought in his belongings, a pair of blue jeans and sneakers with holes going through the soles.
护士拿来了他的随身物品，一条蓝色牛仔裤和鞋底有洞的运动鞋。
I asked what had happened to his shirt.
我问他的衬衫怎么了。
I don't know, he told me.
我不知道，他告诉我。
I looked at the nurse and she shrugged, telling me he had come that way.
我看着护士，她耸耸肩，告诉我他是从那边过来的。
We've got no clothes here, she added.
我们这里没有衣服，她补充道。
As we exited through the hospital lobby, I watched the way people looked at his shirtless body and imagined him alone and half naked in the days to come as he was booked and transferred and finally bussed to the border.
当我们穿过医院大厅时，我看着人们看着他光着膀子的身体的样子，想象着他在接下来的日子里独自一人，半裸着，因为他被预约、转院，最后被巴士送往边境。
When we got to the parking lot, I placed him in the passenger seat of my patrol vehicle and popped the trunk.
当我们到达停车场时，我把他放在巡逻车的乘客座位上，然后打开后备箱。
I walked to the back of the cruiser, unbuttoned my uniform shirt, and removed my white v-neck to give to him.
我走到巡洋舰后面，解开制服衬衫的纽扣，脱下白色的 V 领衫交给他。
Before leaving town, I asked him if he was hungry.
出城前，我问他饿不饿。
You should eat something now, I told him.
你现在应该吃点东西了，我告诉他。
At the station, there's only juice and crackers.
车站里只有果汁和饼干。
I asked him what he was hungry for.
我问他饿什么。
What do Americans eat, he asked.
他问美国人吃什么。
I laughed.
我笑了。
Here, we eat mostly Mexican food.
在这里，我们主要吃墨西哥菜。
He looked at me unbelievingly.
他不可置信地看着我。
But we also eat hamburgers, I said.
但我们也吃汉堡，我说。
We pulled into a McDonald's.
我们把车开进了一家麦当劳。
As we drove south along the open highway, I tuned into a Mexican radio station and we listened to the sounds of norteño as he finished his meal.
当我们沿着开阔的高速公路向南行驶时，我打开了一个墨西哥广播电台，我们听到了 Norteño 吃完饭时发出的声音。
After he finished eating, he sat silently next to me, watching the passing desert.
吃完饭后，他默默地坐在我旁边，看着那掠过的沙漠。
Then, quietly, as if whispering to me or to someone else, he began to speak of the rains in Guerrero, of the wet and green jungle, and I wondered if he could have ever been made to imagine a place like this.
然后，他安静地，仿佛对我或其他人耳语一样，开始谈论格雷罗州的雨，谈论潮湿而绿色的丛林，我想知道他是否能够想象出这样一个地方。
A place where one of his companions would meet his death and another would be made to forget his own name.
在那里，他的一名同伴将死去，而另一名同伴将被迫忘记自己的名字。
A landscape where the earth still seethed with volcanic heat.
大地仍然充满火山热气的景观。
A woman on the south side of the pedestrian fence flagged me down as I passed her on the border road.
当我在边境公路上经过人行围栏南侧的一位女士时，她向我挥手示意。
I stopped my vehicle and went over to her.
我停下车，走到她身边。
With panic in her voice, she asked me if I knew about her son.
她的声音充满惊慌，问我是否知道她儿子的事。
He had crossed days ago, she said.
她说，他几天前就已经穿越了。
Maybe it was a week ago, she wasn't sure.
也许是一周前的事了，她不确定。
She hadn't heard anything from him-- no one had, and she didn't know if he had been caught or if he was lost somewhere in the desert, or if he was even still alive.
她没有听到他的任何消息——没有人听到过，她不知道他是否被抓住了，或者他是否在沙漠的某个地方迷路了，或者他是否还活着。
Estamos desesperados, she told me, her voice quivering, one hand clawing at her chest and the other trembling against the fence.
“Estamos desesperados”，她告诉我，声音颤抖，一只手抓着胸口，另一只手靠在栅栏上颤抖。
I don't remember what I told her, if I took down the man's name or if I gave her a phone number to some faraway office or hotline.
我不记得我告诉她了什么，是否记下了那个人的名字，或者是否给了她某个遥远办公室或热线的电话号码。
But I remember thinking later about de la Vega, about his dead and delirious companions, about all the questions I should have asked the woman.
但我记得后来想起了德拉维加，想起了他死去的、精神错乱的同伴，想起了我应该问那个女人的所有问题。
I arrived home that evening and threw my gun belt and uniform across the couch, standing alone in my living room.
那天晚上我回到家，把枪带和制服扔到沙发上，独自站在客厅里。
I called my mother.
我打电话给我妈妈。
I'm safe, I told her.
我很安全，我告诉她。
I'm home.
我到家了。
When the call came out on the radio, I braced myself for the smell.
当收音机里传来呼叫的声音时，我做好了迎接气味的准备。
That's the worst part, the senior agents would always say.
高级特工总是说，这是最糟糕的部分。
The smell.
气味。
My first week at the station, one of them suggested I carry a small tin of Vicks VapoRub with me wherever I went.
我在车站的第一周，其中一个人建议我无论去哪里都随身携带一小罐 Vicks VapoRub。
If you come up on a dead body, he would say, rub that [BLEEP] under your nose or else the smell will stay with you for days.
如果你发现一具尸体，他会说，在你的鼻子下擦[哔]，否则这种气味会伴随你好几天。
When I arrived, it was evening and Hart had already been on the scene for half an hour.
我到达时已是晚上，哈特已经在现场半个小时了。
The body is fresh, he told me, maybe two hours old.
他告诉我，尸体是新鲜的，可能已经放置了两个小时。
Doesn't smell yet.
还没闻到味道
Hart had been flagged down by two boys as he was driving across the reservation.
当哈特开车穿过保留地时，两个男孩拦住了他。
They put rocks in the road, he said, gesturing awkwardly at the boys.
他们在路上放了石头，他尴尬地指着孩子们说道。
He stood for a moment with his hands in his pocket and then asked me, quietly, if I would talk to them.
他双手插在口袋里站了一会儿，然后轻声地问我是否愿意和他们谈谈。
They keep asking me questions, he said.
“他们一直问我问题，”他说。
I can't understand them.
我无法理解他们。
One of the boys sat quietly on a rock, looking disoriented.
其中一个男孩安静地坐在一块岩石上，看上去迷失了方向。
I went over to him and asked him how he knew the dead man.
我走过去问他是怎么认识死者的。
Es mi tio, he told me.
Es mi tio，他告诉我。
He's my uncle.
他是我叔叔。
He stared at his hands as he spoke.
他说话时盯着自己的双手。
How old are you?
你今年多大？
I asked.
我问。
Dieciseis, 16.
迪赛西斯，16。
I looked at his friend.
我看着他的朋友。
And you?
你呢？
He looked up from the ground.
他从地上抬起头来。
Diecinueve, he said.
迪西纽芙，他说。
19.
19.
The dead man and the two boys all hailed from the same village in Veracruz and had set out together on the journey north.
死者和两个男孩都来自韦拉克鲁斯州的同一个村庄，并一起出发向北旅行。
The 19-year-old did most of the talking, telling me that a few hours before the man died, he'd taken two caffeine uppers that border crossers often take for energy, and then washed them down with homemade sugar cane liquor they brought from Veracruz.
大部分时间都是这个 19 岁的年轻人说的，他告诉我，在该男子死亡前几个小时，他服用了两粒咖啡因上品，边境越境者经常服用这些咖啡因上品，然后用他们从韦拉克鲁斯带来的自制甘蔗酒将其冲下。
A few hours later, he said, the man was staggering around like a drunk, and then he collapsed.
他说，几个小时后，这名男子像醉汉一样摇摇晃晃，然后就倒下了。
I walked over to the body.
我走到尸体旁边。
Hart had placed a shirt over the dead man's face.
哈特把一件衬衫盖在死者的脸上。
I lifted it and looked at him.
我举起它看着他。
His eyes were closed, white foam had bubbled up and collected between his parted lips, and his face was covered with small red ants, traveling in neat lines towards the moisture.
他闭着眼睛，张开的嘴唇间冒出白色的泡沫，聚集在他的脸上，脸上爬满了红色的小蚂蚁，整齐地向湿气行进。
The 19-year-old told me that the three of them had become separated from the group.
这位 19 岁的年轻人告诉我，他们三人已经脱离了队伍。
Their guide had told them to spread out, to hide in the bushes by the road to wait for the load vehicle.
向导让他们分散开来，躲在路边的灌木丛里等待运货车辆。
They must have gone too far, he said, because sometime later, they heard a car stop and then drive off and after that, they couldn't find anyone.
他说，他们一定是走得太远了，因为过了一段时间，他们听到汽车停下来，然后开走了，之后他们就找不到任何人了。
Alone at the edge of the road, they walked for several miles in the August heat until the dead man finally lay down to die.
他们独自在路边，在八月的炎热中走了几英里，直到死者最终躺下死去。
The boys waited beside the road to flag down one of the infrequently passing cars, but no one stopped for them.
男孩们在路边等着，想要拦下一辆不常经过的汽车，但没有人为他们停车。
That's when they put the rocks out, they said, to make the cars stop.
他们说，那时他们就把石头拿出来，让汽车停下来。
The boys asked me what would happen to the dead man, if they could come with the body to the hospital.
男孩们问我，如果他们能把尸体带到医院的话，死者会怎样。
I told them that they could not, that they had to stay with us, that they would be processed for deportation and the body would be turned over to the tribal police.
我告诉他们不能，他们必须和我们在一起，他们将被驱逐出境，尸体将移交给部落警察。
They asked if the body would come back to Mexico with them, if they could bring it back to their village.
他们询问尸体是否会和他们一起带回墨西哥，是否可以带回他们的村庄。
I told them that they could not, that the body would be taken to the county medical examiner, who would try to determine the cause of death.
我告诉他们不能，尸体将被带到县法医那里，法医将试图确定死因。
I told the boys that they would be taken to the sector headquarters, where they would meet with the Mexican consul.
我告诉男孩们，他们将被带到区总部，在那里他们会见墨西哥领事。
That it was they who would make arrangements for the repatriation of the body to Mexico.
他们将安排将尸体运回墨西哥。
As I spoke, the man's nephew stared at the ground.
当我说话时，那人的侄子盯着地面。
The boys didn't want to leave the body.
男孩们不想离开尸体。
And even as I explained the procedures to them, I began quietly doubting, given what I knew from my short time on the border, whether they would actually see the console, whether the consulate would actually arrange for the body to go back to Mexico.
就在我向他们解释程序时，根据我在边境的短暂了解，我开始悄悄怀疑他们是否真的会看到控制台，领事馆是否真的会安排尸体返回墨西哥。
Whether the boys would even receive a piece of paper to help explain to the dead man's family what had befallen him on the journey north.
男孩们是否会收到一张纸来帮助向死者的家人解释他在北上旅途中发生的事情。
Before the boys were loaded into the transport unit, I went to them and told them I was sorry for their loss.
在孩子们被装进运输车之前，我去找他们，告诉他们我对他们的损失感到抱歉。
It's a hard thing, I said.
这是一件很难的事，我说。
I told them that if they ever decided to cross again, they must not cross in the summer.
我告诉他们，如果他们决定再次穿越，就不能在夏天穿越。
It's too hot, I said.
太热了，我说。
To cross in the heat is to risk one's life.
在炎热的天气里穿越就等于冒着生命危险。
They nodded.
他们点点头。
I told them that many people died here.
我告诉他们，有很多人死在这里。
That in the summer, people died every day, year after year, and many more were found hovering at the edge of death.
那个夏天，每天都有人死去，年复一年，还有更多人徘徊在死亡的边缘。
The boys thanked me, I think, and were placed into the transport unit and driven away.
我想，男孩们感谢了我，然后被送进了运输车并被赶走了。
The sun had already began to set, as I left the body in a cast of warm light on the storm clouds gathering in the south.
太阳已经开始落山，当我把尸体留在南方聚集的暴风雨云上的温暖光线中时。
I drove toward the storm.
我驱车驶向风暴。
When the first rain drops began to hit my windshield, I could hear the dispatch operator radio to Hart, who had stayed behind with the body, that the tribal police didn't have any officers available and he'd have to wait with the dead man a while longer.
当第一滴雨滴开始打在我的挡风玻璃上时，我能听到调度员对留在尸体后面的哈特说，部落警察没有任何警官，他必须在死者身边再等一段时间。
Later that night, at the end of our shift, I saw Hart back at the station and asked what had happened with the body.
那天晚上晚些时候，轮班结束时，我看到哈特回到车站，并询问尸体发生了什么事。
He told me the storm had finally come and dispatch had told him to just leave the body there.
他告诉我暴风雨终于来了，调度员告诉他把尸体留在那里。
The tribal police wouldn't have an officer to take charge of it until the next day.
部落警察直到第二天才会派出警官来负责此事。
It's all right, he said.
没关系，他说。
They've got the coordinates.
他们已经有了坐标。
I asked him if it had been strange waiting there in the dark watching over the body of a dead man.
我问他在黑暗中守候一具死人的尸体是否很奇怪。
Not really, he said.
并非如此，他说。
At least he didn't smell yet.
至少他还没有闻到。
We stood for a few more minutes, talking about the storm and about the human body that lay there in the desert in the dark and in the rain.
我们又站了几分钟，谈论暴风雨，谈论在黑暗和雨中躺在沙漠中的人体。
And we talked of the animals that might come in the night and of the humidity and the deadly heat that would come with the morning.
我们谈到了夜间可能出现的动物，以及早晨可能出现的潮湿和致命的高温。
We talked and then we went home.
我们聊了聊然后就回家了。
At the end of my shift on Christmas Eve, I returned home well after midnight and woke my mother, who had come to stay with me for the holiday.
平安夜下班后，我在午夜后回到家，叫醒了来和我一起过节的母亲。
We sat together in my living room, talking through the early hours of the morning, drinking eggnog and stringing popcorn around an artificial tree.
我们一起坐在客厅里，聊到凌晨，喝着蛋酒，把爆米花挂在一棵人造树上。
My mother asked me about my shift.
妈妈问我轮班的事。
It was fine, I said.
没关系，我说。
She asked if I was liking the work, if I was learning what I wanted.
她问我是否喜欢这份工作，是否正在学习我想要的东西。
I knew what she was asking but I didn't have the energy to think of it, to weigh where I was against what had brought me there.
我知道她在问什么，但我没有精力去思考它，去权衡我现在的处境和是什么让我到了那里。
The work isn't really something to like, I told her curtly.
我简短地告诉她，这份工作并不是真正让人喜欢的事情。
There's not a lot of time to sit around and reflect on things.
没有太多时间坐下来思考事情。
It's my job, I told her, and I'm trying to get used to it.
这是我的工作，我告诉她，我正在努力适应它。
I'm trying to get good at it.
我正在努力做好它。
I can figure out what that means later.
我稍后就能明白这意味着什么。
You know, my mother said, it's not just your safety I worry about.
你知道，我妈妈说，我担心的不仅仅是你的安全。
I know how a person can become lost in their job.
我知道一个人如何会迷失在工作中。
You asked me once how it felt looking back on my career.
你曾经问过我回顾我的职业生涯有何感受。
The Park Service is an institution.
公园管理局是一个机构。
If I'm honest, I can see now that I spent my career slowly losing a sense of purpose, even though I was close to the outdoors, close to the places I loved.
老实说，我现在可以看到，尽管我靠近户外，靠近我喜欢的地方，但我的职业生涯正在慢慢失去目标感。
I don't want that for you.
我不想让你这样。
I cut my mother off.
我打断了妈妈的话。
I was too exhausted to consider my sense of purpose, too afraid to tell my mother about the dreams of dead bodies, about the hands I had seen shaking at the fence.
我太累了，无法考虑自己的使命感，也太害怕告诉母亲关于尸体的梦，以及我看到的在栅栏上颤抖的手。
What I couldn't articulate to her until years later was that, in a way, I hadn't learned anything from my work that I didn't already know.
直到多年后我才向她明确表示，在某种程度上，我没有从我的工作中学到任何我不知道的东西。
People were risking their lives to cross an unnatural divide, while others were being employed to stop them.
人们冒着生命危险跨越不自然的鸿沟，而其他人则被雇佣来阻止他们。
And there was, of course, a profound violence in all of this.
当然，这一切都充满了深刻的暴力。
People were dying with nobody hoping or intending for them to die.
人们正在死去，却没有人希望或打算让他们死去。
But to see it firsthand, day in and day out, it seems somehow more awful than I could have ever imagined.
但日复一日地亲眼目睹，它似乎比我想象的还要可怕。
After dark, the scope truck spotted a group of 20 heading north toward the bombing range.
天黑后，瞄准镜卡车发现一群 20 人正在向北前往轰炸范围。
The operator said they were moving slowly, that it looked like there might be women and children in the group.
接线员表示，他们移动得很慢，看起来人群中可能有妇女和儿童。
He guided us in and we quickly located their trail and then lost it again across a stretch of hard packed desert pavement.
他引导我们进去，我们很快就找到了他们的踪迹，然后在一段坚硬的沙漠人行道上再次迷失了方向。
We split up and combed the hillside, hunting for toe digs and kicked-over rocks.
我们分头搜寻山坡，寻找脚趾坑和被踢翻的岩石。
As I looked desperately for a sign of their passage, I thought of the deadly expanses that stretched between here and the nearest highway, the nearest place the group might stop for aid.
当我拼命寻找他们通过的迹象时，我想到了这里和最近的高速公路之间延伸的致命的广阔区域，这是这群人可能停下来寻求援助的最近的地方。
On the walk back to our vehicle, I became furious.
在走回我们的车的路上，我变得非常愤怒。
There were supposed to be 20 of them.
本来应该有20个人。
They were supposed to be slow.
他们本来应该很慢。
But still, I couldn't catch up.
但我还是没能追上。
I couldn't stay on their sign.
我无法留在他们的标志上。
I couldn't even get close enough to hear them in the distance.
我什至无法靠近，听不到远处的声音。
And so now, they remained out there in the desert, men, women, and children.
所以现在，他们留在沙漠里，男人、女人和孩子。
Entire families invisible and unheard.
整个家庭都看不见，也听不到。
And I was powerless to help them, powerless to keep them from straying through the night.
而我却无力帮助他们，无力阻止他们整夜迷失。
Francisco Cantu, reading excerpts of what's going to be a book next year called "The Line Becomes a River." A version of his account originally ran in Ploughshares.
弗朗西斯科·坎图（Francisco Cantu）正在阅读明年将出版的一本书《线条变成河流》的节选。他的帐户的一个版本最初在 Ploughshares 上运行。
Coming up, we turn from a family where the mom does not want her kid at the border to a mom who goes there herself to run guns, illegally, across it.
接下来，我们从一个母亲不希望自己的孩子在边境的家庭，变成了一个亲自前往边境非法运枪的母亲。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一个主题。
Today's show, "OK, I'll Do It," people stepping up to the plate to do dangerous things that most of us do not do.
今天的节目“好吧，我会做”，人们挺身而出，去做我们大多数人都不会做的危险事情。
We've arrived at Act 2 of our program.
我们已经到了计划的第二幕。
Act 2, "Da Do Run Guns, Mom, Da Do Run Guns." As we get older, if we're lucky, we get to see our parents in a new light.
第二幕，“大都跑枪，妈妈，大都跑枪。”随着年龄的增长，如果幸运的话，我们就能以新的眼光看待父母。
We get to learn parts about them that we did not really get when we were kids.
我们可以学到一些我们小时候没有真正学到的知识。
Reya El-Salahi is a journalist in London.
雷亚·埃尔-萨拉希 (Reya El-Salahi) 是伦敦的一名记者。
And in her case, what she learned about her mom is that her mom ran missions for a guerrilla movement in Africa.
就她而言，她对母亲的了解是，她的母亲在非洲执行过游击运动任务。
A few years ago, I found out, just months before she met my dad, my mum had been in a fake marriage.
几年前，我发现，就在她遇见我爸爸的几个月前，我妈妈经历了一场假婚姻。
She was a university student at the time and her sham husband-to-be was a man called Laurence.
当时她是一名大学生，她的假丈夫是一个名叫劳伦斯的男人。
They boarded a plane, exchanged rings, and checked into a hotel in Zambia as husband and wife.
他们登上飞机，交换戒指，并以夫妻身份入住赞比亚的一家酒店。
For Laurence, it was his first time.
对于劳伦斯来说，这是他的第一次。
First time on the continent.
第一次来到大陆。
That's my mum.
那是我妈妈。
She'd been to Africa before, but Laurence hadn't.
她以前去过非洲，但劳伦斯没有。
Like a lot of newlyweds, they got a car together, a brand new, spacious Land Rover.
像许多新婚夫妇一样，他们一起买了一辆车，一辆全新、宽敞的路虎。
We bought the Land Rover in Botswana.
我们在博茨瓦纳买了路虎。
We drove it up to Zambia and it was then secretly modified to be able to carry guns.
我们把它开到赞比亚，然后秘密改装成可以携带枪支。
So there was a false petrol tank which looked as though we just had an extra petrol tank put in for our trips.
所以有一个假油箱，看起来好像我们只是为旅行准备了一个额外的油箱。
And then we had to drive it across, back to Botswana, with guns in it.
然后我们必须开着它穿越，回到博茨瓦纳，里面装着枪。
That was pretty scary.
那是相当可怕的。
It was 1971.
那是 1971 年。
Posing as white tourists, they'd drive guns and guerrilla fighters as close to the border of South Africa as they could and drop them off over and over again for three months.
他们冒充白人游客，将枪支和游击队员开到尽可能靠近南非边境的地方，并在三个月内一遍又一遍地投放。
We were undercover agents.
我们是卧底特工。
Reya El-salahi Undercover agents for the African National Congress, the party Nelson Mandela led to end apartheid in South Africa to give non-whites equal rights and the right to vote.
雷亚·埃尔-萨拉希 (Reya El-salahi) 纳尔逊·曼德拉领导的非洲人国民大会党的卧底特工，该党旨在结束南非的种族隔离制度，赋予非白人平等的权利和投票权。
What we were meant to be doing was smuggling men and arms down from Zambia down into a part of Botswana, southern Botswana, where they could get over the border into South Africa.
我们的目的是将人员和武器从赞比亚偷运到博茨瓦纳南部的博茨瓦纳部分地区，在那里他们可以越过边境进入南非。
I learned the details of my mother's secret from a book when I was 25, the same age she was when she went on the mission.
我25岁时从一本书中了解到了我母亲的秘密的细节，与她执行任务时的年龄相同。
It was the first time she'd ever told her story and my mind was completely blown.
这是她第一次讲述她的故事，我彻底震惊了。
She was a conventional mum in so many ways.
从很多方面来说，她都是一位传统的妈妈。
She drove me to school each day and was home cooking dinner every night.
她每天开车送我去学校，每天晚上都在家做饭。
Growing up, I loved ice skating.
从小到大，我都喜欢滑冰。
My friends' parents would join in, but my mom would always watch from the side, too worried about breaking bones.
我朋友的父母会加入，但我妈妈总是在一旁看着，太担心骨折了。
She was that kind of mum.
她就是这样的妈妈。
How was this the same person who, at my age, was smuggling guns for guerrilla fighters?
这怎么可能就是在我这个年纪为游击队走私枪支的同一个人？
And why would she give that up for the life she had with us?
为什么她要为了和我们一起度过的生活而放弃这一点？
Did you feel any sense of regret?
你有没有感到一丝遗憾？
Given that you'd had this hugely exciting, unique experience in your early 20s, to spend the latter part of your 20s and early 30s taking life in a very different direction, was there any sense of regret?
考虑到你在 20 岁出头的时候就已经经历了这段非常令人兴奋、独特的经历，在 20 岁后半段和 30 岁出头的时候，你的生活走向了一个截然不同的方向，你有什么遗憾吗？
Never, never, never.
从来没有，从来没有，从来没有。
If I think about the one thing that I feel I've done fairly well, it's bringing up you lot.
如果我想想我觉得自己做得相当好的一件事，那就是它让你受益匪浅。
I didn't find it fulfilling enough.
我觉得它不够充实。
I always needed to be doing something that was for me, as well.
我也总是需要做一些适合我自己的事情。
But I've never regretted that.
但我从来没有后悔过。
But also, I felt very good that I stepped up to the challenge.
而且，我也感觉非常好，因为我勇敢地面对了挑战。
I just can't believe how fundamentally her life changed in such a short space of time.
我简直不敢相信她的生活在如此短的时间内发生了如此根本的变化。
I'm 30 years old.
我今年30岁了。
I'm starting to see my female friends make the same choices my mom made, to get married and have children, setting aside their careers and aspirations in ways my male friends never seem to.
我开始看到我的女性朋友做出与我妈妈相同的选择，结婚生子，以我的男性朋友从未见过的方式搁置自己的事业和抱负。
And to be honest, I can't imagine following the same path.
老实说，我无法想象走同样的路。
I just don't relate to it at all because she raised me not to relate to it.
我根本不喜欢它，因为她从小就教育我不喜欢它。
So how did this fearless young woman turn into the mother I'd grown up with?
那么这个无所畏惧的年轻女子是如何变成和我一起长大的母亲的呢？
To answer that, I took the 90-minute bus ride to my family home in Oxford and sat down for breakfast with my mum in a room filled with her and my dad's old books.
为了回答这个问题，我乘坐 90 分钟的巴士回到了我在牛津的家，然后和我妈妈一起坐在一间摆满了她和我爸爸的旧书的房间里吃早餐。
And for the first time, she and I talked in depth about what really happened back then.
我和她第一次深入地谈论了当时到底发生了什么。
Do you think if you'd asked a good group of your friends what sort of a person you were that time, how would they have described you?
你认为如果你问一群好朋友你当时是一个什么样的人，他们会如何描述你？
Oh.
哦。
What a question.
这是什么问题啊。
I have no idea, all sorts of things.
我不知道，各种各样的事情。
I was a good time girl, I liked partying.
我是一个好时光的女孩，我喜欢聚会。
I liked-- I had boyfriends.
我喜欢——我有男朋友。
I liked to do all sorts of pleasant things.
我喜欢做各种令人愉快的事情。
And I was quite indulged and I came from a family which, at that time, was quite well off.
我很放纵，而且我来自一个当时非常富裕的家庭。
So I had the choice to do all sorts of things that I took for granted.
所以我可以选择做各种我认为理所当然的事情。
My mom grew up in a Jewish family in Newcastle.
我妈妈在纽卡斯尔的一个犹太家庭长大。
It's an industrial city in North England.
这是英格兰北部的一座工业城市。
She lived her life like many students in the late '60s and early '70s, taking part in anti-apartheid demonstrations and marching in protests against the Vietnam War.
她像60年代末和70年代初的许多学生一样过着自己的生活，参加反种族隔离示威活动和游行抗议越南战争。
And when she was approached by a man claiming to be a student, as a cover for recruiting young white Londoners to risk their lives running people and weapons into South Africa, she went for it.
当一名自称学生的男子找到她，作为招募年轻伦敦白人冒着生命危险将人员和武器运往南非的掩护时，她就答应了。
My mum doubted she'd be killed if caught, but she did worry they might be imprisoned or deported.
我妈妈怀疑如果被发现她会被杀，但她确实担心他们可能会被监禁或驱逐出境。
My mother signed onto the covert operation.
我母亲签署了秘密行动。
She was assigned a partner, her fake husband Laurence, and together, they were given training.
她被分配了一个搭档，她的假丈夫劳伦斯，他们一起接受训练。
How to tell when you're being followed, where to leave secret messages, and why to never write mission details down.
如何判断您何时被跟踪、在哪里留下秘密信息以及为什么从不写下任务细节。
She's a sociable person and it was this last point that proved the hardest for my mum.
她是一个善于交际的人，而最后一点对我妈妈来说是最困难的。
Not being able to talk to anyone, not even her parents, about what she was really doing.
无法与任何人，甚至她的父母，谈论她真正在做什么。
Part of me wanted to tell-- to tell my friends, who I knew would be interested and impressed, this is what I'm going to do.
我的一部分想要告诉——告诉我的朋友们，我知道他们会感兴趣并且印象深刻，这就是我要做的。
But you didn't.
但你没有。
Katherine El-salahi No, no, no. I didn't.
凯瑟琳·埃尔-萨拉希 不，不，不。我没有。
I didn't because we were told we'd put people's lives at risk.
我没有这样做，因为我们被告知我们会将人们的生命置于危险之中。
The deception fascinated me.
这种欺骗让我着迷。
I couldn't get my head around it.
我无法理解它。
It seemed beyond her, somehow.
不知何故，这似乎超出了她的范围。
She was never a cool mom.
她从来都不是一个很酷的妈妈。
To think she could travel with a cover story and a fake marriage, and she kept it up for three months.
没想到她可以带着掩饰故事和假婚姻去旅行，而且她坚持了三个月。
The mission was dangerous, but they didn't spend all of their time, or even most of it, racing through the African bush with machine guns hidden in the gas tank.
这次任务很危险，但他们并没有把所有的时间，甚至大部分时间，都用藏在油箱里的机关枪在非洲丛林中奔跑。
We spent a lot of time looking at animals, which I had never done before.
我们花了很多时间观察动物，这是我以前从未做过的。
Because we were near a game reserve and that's one of the things tourists do and honeymoon couples do.
因为我们靠近一个野生动物保护区，这是游客和度蜜月的情侣所做的事情之一。
So we did all the things we knew we had to do to look plausible.
因此，我们做了所有我们知道必须做的事情才能看起来合理。
Was there no sense-- or was there any sense, I should ask, are people really going to buy this?
没有任何意义吗？或者我应该问，人们真的会买这个吗？
Oh, I had that all the time.
哦，我一直都是这样。
I was really anxious that they wouldn't buy it.
我真的很担心他们不买。
Why?
为什么？
Katherine El-salahi Because it wasn't true.
凯瑟琳·埃尔-萨拉希 因为这不是真的。
[LAUGHS] To me, it was blindingly obvious that we weren't a honeymoon couple.
[笑]对我来说，很明显我们不是蜜月情侣。
My mother and Laurence did share a room, but not like that.
我母亲和劳伦斯确实共用一个房间，但不是那样的。
Did you think there was any chemistry between you?
你认为你们之间有化学反应吗？
No. No, there wasn't.
不，不，没有。
People don't ask questions.
人们不问问题。
People didn't ask questions.
人们没有问问题。
We were a European couple.
我们是一对欧洲夫妇。
We were going to safari, if anybody asked us, for two or three months.
如果有人问我们的话，我们会去旅行两三个月。
And that was that.
就是这样。
What was the dynamic like between you and your fake husband?
你和你的假丈夫之间的动态如何？
We didn't know each other and he was very cool.
我们彼此不认识，但他很酷。
He was very cool.
他很酷。
He was very cool and reserved.
他非常冷静而且矜持。
And I was battling with these anxieties on my own.
我独自一人与这些焦虑作斗争。
What did you talk about?
你们聊了什么？
Katherine El-salahi We talked about our lives and we probably discussed various things.
Katherine El-salahi 我们谈论了我们的生活，我们可能讨论了各种各样的事情。
I don't remember.
我不记得了。
You say that as though you weren't actually spending time together when the doors were closed.
你这么说就好像当门关着的时候你们并没有真正花时间在一起一样。
Did you feel as though, once you were able to drop the act, you were back to being by yourself, even if you were sharing a space?
你是否觉得，一旦你能够放弃这种行为，即使你们共享一个空间，你又回到了自己的状态？
Yes.
是的。
Yeah, I did.
是的，我做到了。
That's right.
这是正确的。
You've hit the nail on the head.
你说得一针见血。
The downtime was frustrating.
停机时间令人沮丧。
There were times that the mission felt poorly planned.
有时感觉任务计划不周。
Sometimes the men they were meant to help were too drunk to travel.
有时，他们本应帮助的人喝得酩酊大醉，无法出行。
And always, the fear of being found out hung over them.
他们总是担心被发现。
The stickiest it got was one time, they got lost and accidentally crossed over the border into Rhodesia and came face to face with armed guards, who were known to take pot shots at anyone who wasn't meant to be there.
最棘手的是有一次，他们迷路了，不小心越过边境进入罗得西亚，与武装警卫面对面，众所周知，他们会对任何不应该在那里的人开枪。
That was very scary, going into Rhodesia.
进入罗德西亚真是太可怕了。
Coming in in a way that-- from a place they weren't expecting white-- anybody, actually, to come through, but certainly not white tourists.
实际上，任何人都会从他们没想到的地方进来，但肯定不是白人游客。
I think we were running out of petrol, too.
我想我们的汽油也快用完了。
So at some point, a black South African came and asked us for a lift while we were being processed.
因此，在某个时候，一位南非黑人在我们接受处理时过来要求载我们一程。
So while you're going through the border gates.
所以当你通过边境大门时。
Yes.
是的。
Would we give him a lift to Chobe, which was the northernmost part of Botswana, just on the border with Zambia.
我们可以载他去乔贝吗？乔贝是博茨瓦纳的最北端，与赞比亚接壤。
And we had to be very cold and unfriendly and say no. And that felt terrible.
我们必须非常冷漠和不友好地拒绝。那感觉很糟糕。
It felt mean and horrible.
感觉既卑鄙又可怕。
And afterwards, Laurence said he thought he was planted, that it was a test.
事后，劳伦斯说他认为自己被栽赃了，这是一次考验。
But he didn't tell me that till-- that he thought that.
但他没有告诉我，直到他这么想。
I hadn't thought at the time.
我当时没有想到。
He thought it much later and it could have been.
很久以后他才想到，而且也有可能。
Who knows?
谁知道？
A test by who?
由谁来测试？
Katherine El-salahi Oh, the Rhodesian police.
凯瑟琳·埃尔-萨拉希 哦，罗德西亚警察。
The Rhodesian border police.
罗得西亚边防警察。
It was frightening, but my mother and Laurence weren't close, so of course she didn't really talk to him about it.
这很可怕，但我母亲和劳伦斯关系并不亲密，所以她当然没有真正和他谈论这件事。
And sometimes, that was frustrating.
有时，这令人沮丧。
I used to talk to Jimmy in my head.
我曾经在脑海里和吉米说话。
Before the mission, my mom lived in Tanzania as a research student for two years.
在执行任务之前，我妈妈在坦桑尼亚作为研究生生活了两年。
During that time, she had a love affair with a black South African man called Jimmy, who was active with the ANC.
在那段时间，她与一位名叫吉米的南非黑人男子发生了恋情，吉米是非国大的活跃分子。
She has talked about him before, but until now, I didn't know the finer details of their relationship.
她以前曾谈过他，但直到现在，我还不知道他们关系的具体细节。
Why I'm hesitating is because he wasn't my boyfriend.
我之所以犹豫，是因为他不是我的男朋友。
As I say, I knew when I left Tanzania-- it wasn't stated, but we both knew that was likely to be the end of the relationship because he was completely committed to underground work of the ANC.
正如我所说，我知道我什么时候离开坦桑尼亚——没有说明，但我们都知道这可能是我们关系的结束，因为他完全致力于非国大的地下工作。
So when you decided to take this mission, you did have a boyfriend?
那么当你决定接受这个任务时，你是有男朋友的吗？
Well, but he was in jail-- [LAUGHS] in Tanzania and then sent to the Soviet Union.
好吧，但他在坦桑尼亚被关进监狱（笑），然后被送到苏联。
And I was in England.
我当时在英国。
Even though they weren't together at that point, and telling him anything was off limits, my mom joined the ANC partly because of Jimmy.
尽管当时他们没有在一起，并且告诉他任何事情都是禁止的，但我妈妈加入非洲人国民大会的部分原因是吉米。
I wanted to do something.
我想做点什么。
I suppose, in some ways, also to impress him and to show that I was serious about things that I said I believed in.
我想，在某种程度上，也是为了给他留下深刻的印象，并表明我对我所说的我相信的事情是认真的。
I'm completely in awe of what she did.
我对她所做的事感到非常敬畏。
But knowing that Jimmy was, in part, why she did it was a bit of a letdown.
但知道吉米是她这么做的部分原因，这让我有点失望。
It made me realize we're very different in how we're motivated.
这让我意识到我们的激励方式非常不同。
Jimmy found out about my mom's mission and wrote to her.
吉米发现了我妈妈的使命并写信给她。
He said how proud he was, but also warned her never to talk about it.
他说他很自豪，但也警告她永远不要谈论这件事。
The letters continued for a while longer, but she never saw him again.
信又持续了一段时间，但她再也没有见过他。
Years later, when a book about the operation, called The London Recruits, came out, my mother heard through the grapevine that Jimmy had been killed in action.
多年后，当一本关于这次行动的书《伦敦新兵》出版时，我母亲通过小道消息得知吉米在行动中阵亡。
But to this day, his body's never been found.
但直到今天，他的尸体仍未被发现。
Do you think, to a certain extent, that I idealize a period of your life that was essentially a three-month period and nothing more?
你是否认为，在某种程度上，我理想化了你生命中的一段时期，基本上就是三个月的时期，仅此而已？
Do you think I romanticize it as more than, perhaps, it was to you?
你认为我对它的浪漫化程度可能比对你来说更浪漫吗？
Oh, definitely.
哦，当然。
Definitely.
确实。
I think that that's why I was reluctant, in the first place, to talk about The London Recruits.
我想这就是为什么我一开始就不愿意谈论伦敦新兵的原因。
Because I knew an awful lot of people who had done and continued doing a hell of a lot more.
因为我认识很多人，他们已经做了并且还在继续做更多的事情。
And it didn't feel like the pinnacle.
而且感觉也不是巅峰。
If felt like something good to do.
如果觉得想做点好事的话。
I was glad to do it.
我很高兴这么做。
A few months after my mother returned home from her mission, she was introduced to the man who'd become her real husband, my dad.
我母亲完成任务回家几个月后，她被介绍给了后来成为她真正丈夫的男人，我的父亲。
They came from completely different worlds.
他们来自完全不同的世界。
He was Muslim from Sudan and there was a considerable age gap.
他是来自苏丹的穆斯林，年龄差距很大。
But for my mum, the relationship just clicked, especially because of what she'd just gone through.
但对我妈妈来说，这段关系一拍即合，尤其是因为她刚刚经历过的事情。
That mission was part of a huge developmental change for me of what I cared about and believed in, reflected in the kinds of friendships that I had and the kinds of lover I was interested in.
这项使命是我所关心和信仰的巨大发展变化的一部分，反映在我拥有的友谊类型和我感兴趣的爱人类型上。
How much do you think the decision to marry someone, as you say, who was from a very different background from you, was an extension of putting your politics into action?
正如你所说，你认为与一个背景与你截然不同的人结婚的决定在多大程度上是你将政治付诸行动的延伸？
I would hate it to come across as some kind of, right, I have married this person as a political statement.
我讨厌它被认为是某种，对吧，我嫁给这个人作为一种政治声明。
Because I didn't.
因为我没有。
It was because I loved him.
那是因为我爱他。
But I think that it was a confirmation of who I'd become.
但我认为这是对我成为的人的确认。
So they married.
于是他们结婚了。
My dad got a job in the Middle East and together, they started a family in Qatar.
我父亲在中东找到了一份工作，他们一起在卡塔尔组建了家庭。
We grew up between Qatar and London.
我们在卡塔尔和伦敦之间长大。
My mom tried to stay politically active with other forms of work, from journalism to publishing.
我妈妈试图通过其他形式的工作（从新闻业到出版业）保持政治活跃度。
But eventually she gave up on all of that.
但最终她放弃了这一切。
She'd left her independent life behind to follow my father to a place where, she admits, she was cut off from everyone and everything she previously knew and loved, and turned her attention to raising a family.
她放弃了独立的生活，跟随我父亲来到了一个地方，她承认，在那里，她与她以前认识和喜爱的所有人和一切隔绝了，并将注意力转向养家糊口。
She never did anything like she'd done in southern Africa again and she never talked about it.
她再也没有做过像在南部非洲那样的事情，也从未谈论过这件事。
It was always so confusing that there she was, this mumsie mum, a woman dedicated to supporting a man-- my dad-- but constantly telling my sister and I not to be, making us focus on putting ourselves first.
总是让人感到困惑的是，她，这个木讷的妈妈，一个致力于支持一个男人——我的父亲——的女人，却不断地告诉我和我妹妹不要这么做，让我们专注于把自己放在第一位。
Age 12 or 13, she encouraged me to get my first job, helping out at a bed and breakfast in my neighborhood, cleaning rooms and doing laundry after school.
12 或 13 岁时，她鼓励我找到第一份工作，在附近的一家民宿帮忙，放学后打扫房间和洗衣服。
My mom said it was important I knew the value of hard work and could appreciate the independence of making my own money.
我妈妈说重要的是我知道努力工作的价值并且能够欣赏自己赚钱的独立性。
It was years before my elder brothers were taught the same lesson.
多年以后，我的哥哥们才受到同样的教训。
Later on, when I was building my career and living miles away from friends and family, I'd call my mom moaning about being so far away and the impact it was having on my love life.
后来，当我正在建立自己的事业并住在远离朋友和家人的地方时，我会打电话给我妈妈，抱怨离我这么远以及它对我的爱情生活的影响。
She'd always told me the same thing.
她总是告诉我同样的事情。
Focus on the future.
着眼于未来。
Independence and work come before love.
独立和工作先于爱情。
Knowing how committed she'd been to her mission might have helped me better understand where she was coming from.
了解她对自己使命的忠诚度可能会帮助我更好地了解她的出发点。
She hadn't always been a mum.
她并不总是一个母亲。
I didn't know the full extent of what happened until I was well in my 20s, in terms of your experience of this mission.
根据你们这次任务的经历，我直到二十多岁才知道发生的事情的全部内容。
Why didn't you tell me, tell your children, what you did?
你为什么不告诉我，告诉你的孩子，你做了什么？
Did you think we'd judge you?
你以为我们会评判你吗？
That's because I love you.
那是因为我爱你。
But I think--
但我认为——
You judge me whatever I do.
无论我做什么，你都会评判我。
Reya El-salahi I think I judge you because I look at a lot of the decisions that you made when you were around the same age as me and I find it incredible that you made those decisions and then went on to live a life that I can't quite imagine myself living, in terms of putting relationships with men at the forefront of the decisions that I make.
Reya El-salahi 我想我评判你是因为我看了你在和我同龄时做出的很多决定，我发现你做出这些决定令人难以置信，然后你继续过着我无法想象的生活，因为我把与男人的关系放在我做出的决定的最前面。
You always brought me up very focused on career, on education, not on relationships.
你总是让我非常注重事业、教育，而不是人际关系。
But that's completely at odds with the decision that you made when you were the age that I am now.
但这与你在我现在这个年纪时所做的决定完全不一致。
You, to a certain extent, dropped everything you had previously been for a relationship.
在某种程度上，你为了一段关系放弃了之前的一切。
Then she told me something.
然后她告诉我一些事情。
Something she'd actually been kind of saying to me all along throughout this entire conversation.
在整个谈话过程中，她实际上一直在对我说一些话。
Whether it was about what she didn't have with Laurence or what she did have with my dad, or with Jimmy.
无论是她与劳伦斯之间没有的东西，还是她与我父亲或吉米之间所拥有的东西。
Relationships were always important to me.
人际关系对我来说一直很重要。
As important as career.
和事业一样重要。
My mother died when I was your age.
当我像你这么大的时候，我母亲就去世了。
And in the time running up to that, the thing that hurt her most, upset her most, was the thought that I didn't have someone.
在这之前，最让她受伤、最难过的事情就是想到我身边没有人。
I'm glad this isn't how she raised me.
我很高兴她不是这样养育我的。
And I want to take a moment to state the obvious here.
我想花点时间在这里陈述显而易见的事情。
I'm fully aware that when I questioned her decision to start a family, any criticism might sound completely insane.
我完全意识到，当我质疑她组建家庭的决定时，任何批评听起来都可能完全疯狂。
I wouldn't be here if my mom hadn't made the choices she did.
如果我妈妈没有做出她所做的选择，我就不会在这里。
Does it upset you that I'm critical of the decisions you made?
我批评你所做的决定会让你感到不安吗？
And that I'm so kind of black and white about, I would never do that, I'd never give up my job to have four kids and get married and whatever and lead the life that you went on to lead.
我是那么黑白分明，我永远不会那样做，我永远不会放弃我的工作去生四个孩子，结婚等等，过你后来过的生活。
Does that upset you?
这让你不高兴吗？
No. I'm very glad you wouldn't do what I did because you're-- it's a different time, you're a different person.
不，我很高兴你不会做我所做的事，因为你——这是一个不同的时代，你是一个不同的人。
I expect you to be very critical.
我希望你能非常挑剔。
I think you judge me because you're my daughter and you're very judgmental.
我认为你评判我是因为你是我的女儿而且你的评判性很强。
That's who you are.
这就是你。
And I think you're pinning it on to something here.
我认为你把它归咎于这里的某些东西。
You've got to find a reason for doing it and so you've made it that one.
你必须找到一个这样做的理由，所以你已经做到了这一点。
I think the judging comes first and the reason for judging comes after.
我认为判断是第一位的，判断的理由在后。
Do you honestly think that?
你真的这么认为吗？
Do you honestly think that?
你真的这么认为吗？
That it's just that I'm judgmental and therefore, I'm saying, let me pick a reason to judge her?
只是因为我有评判性，所以我说，让我找一个理由来评判她？
It's not that I think you could have achieved so much more had you not become a wife and mother?
不是说我认为如果你没有成为一名妻子和母亲，你可以取得更多成就吗？
But I don't think I could because I think being a wife and mother stabilized me in ways that-- I was very, very up and down and insecure in the midst of all this.
但我不认为我可以，因为我认为作为一名妻子和母亲可以让我稳定下来——在这一切之中，我非常非常起伏和缺乏安全感。
But becoming, not so much a wife, but a mother really grounded me and, in many ways, made me much more confident.
但成为一名母亲，而不是妻子，确实让我更加踏实，并且在很多方面让我更加自信。
So no, for me, those were the right decisions and I think you're wrong to judge me on that.
所以不，对我来说，这些是正确的决定，我认为你以此来评判我是错误的。
If I came home one day and said to you, I'm marrying someone and I'm going to essentially put my career on hold slash quit my career, would you be happy with that?
如果有一天我回到家对你说，我要和某人结婚，并且我将基本上暂停我的职业生涯，大幅退出我的职业生涯，你会对此感到高兴吗？
I'd be very, very, very upset.
我会非常非常非常难过。
I think what you're muddling up is judging and wanting to follow in my footsteps.
我认为你搞混了是在评判并想追随我的脚步。
And I hope you won't follow in my footsteps.
我希望你不要步我的后尘。
Because you'd judge me.
因为你会评判我。
You would judge me if I followed in your footsteps.
如果我追随你的脚步，你就会评判我。
That's why, right?
这就是原因，对吧？
That's you being judgmental of me, too.
那也是你对我的评判。
No, it's not.
不，不是。
It's because I know you.
这是因为我认识你。
Well, and my mother used to say, I know you, Katherine.
嗯，我妈妈常说，我了解你，凯瑟琳。
And I'd say, no, you don't.
我会说，不，你不知道。
But actually, she did.
但事实上，她做到了。
And I know you and I know if you followed in my footsteps, I'd think some kind of spirit had possessed you.
我了解你，我知道如果你追随我的脚步，我想某种精神已经占据了你。
There's something comforting in knowing she gets me, even if I can't always return the favor.
知道她得到了我，我感到很安慰，即使我不能总是回报她的帮助。
Listening back, I hear how judgy I am.
回头听，我发现我是多么挑剔。
I get that she made the decisions that were right for her, just not for me.
我知道她做出的决定对她来说是正确的，但不适合我。
And that's OK.
没关系。
Perhaps that's just the trick of parenting.
或许这就是父母的养育之道吧。
You can't always lead by example.
你不能总是以身作则。
Reya El-Salahi.
雷亚·埃尔-萨拉希。
She's a reporter and anchor for the London TV channel, London Live.
她是伦敦电视频道“伦敦现场”的记者和主播。
[MUSIC - "REBEL WITHOUT A PAUSE" BY PUBLIC ENEMY]
[音乐-公敌的“不间断的反抗”]
Well, our program was produced today by Robyn Semien and Karen Duffin.
嗯，我们今天的节目是由 Robyn Semien 和 Karen Duffin 制作的。
Our staff includes Susan Burton, Sean Cole, Whitney Dangerfield, Neil Drumming, Stephanie Foo, Jonathan Menjivar, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
我们的员工包括 Susan Burton、Sean Cole、Whitney Dangerfield、Neil Drumming、Stephanie Foo、Jonathan Menjivar、Christopher Swetala、Matt Tierney、Julie Whitaker 和 Diane Wu。
Music help today from Damien Graef.
今天达米安·格雷夫 (Damien Graef) 提供音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
[致谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life" is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, at my niece's birthday party last weekend.
你知道，上周末在我侄女的生日聚会上。
I asked him to teach everybody to play musical chairs.
我请他教大家玩抢椅子游戏。
And I don't know, he got really intense about it.
我不知道，他对此非常强烈。
When I say stand, lift your ass off the seat and keep it in the air until I tell you to sit.
当我说站起来时，请将你的屁股从座位上抬起并保持在空中，直到我告诉你坐下。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of this American life.
下周我们将带来更多有关美国生活的故事。
[MUSIC - "I DON'T WANT NOBODY TO GIVE ME NOTHING (OPEN UP THE DOOR I'll GET IT MYSELF)" BY JAMES BROWN]
[音乐 - “我不想让任何人给我什么（打开门，我自己去拿）”，作者：詹姆斯·布朗]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。