608: The Revolution Starts At Noon - This American Life

608：革命从中午开始

608 · This American Life · 原文

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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #608 | January 20, 2017 608: The Revolution Starts At Noon Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

00:00 00:00 文字记录分享此美国生活生活伙伴如何收听剧集推荐关于概述员工公告奖学金工作音乐在路上制作电台常见问题解答提交商品联系我们我们的其他节目商品关注我们生活伙伴订阅我们的时事通讯整集切换音频和文字记录同步文字记录 | 内容第 608 集 | 2017 年 1 月 20 日 608：革命从中午开始注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作，旨在让人们听到。

If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.

如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。

Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue Ira Glass When I reached Eric Pahls three weeks ago, he was on the road.

序言艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 三周前，当我到达埃里克·帕尔斯 (Eric Pahls) 时，他正在路上。

In fact, it was his second day on the road, headed from Kansas, where he's from, to Washington, DC.

事实上，这是他上路的第二天，从他的家乡堪萨斯州前往华盛顿特区。

I am in the mountains of southwest Pennsylvania-- or hills-- right now, so I hope I don't lose you.

我现在在宾夕法尼亚州西南部的山区——或者说丘陵——所以我希望我不会失去你。

I'd say that part of the drive is so incredible because suddenly you really are not in the Midwest.

我想说这部分的驾驶是如此令人难以置信，因为突然间你真的不在中西部了。

Right.

正确的。

The houses get older and the land gets a little more diverse than it was.

房屋变得越来越旧，土地也变得比以前更加多样化。

Yeah.

是的。

Right.

正确的。

Not flat, I guess, in other words.

换句话说，我猜不是平坦的。

Yeah.

是的。

And describe the scene.

并描述当时的情景。

Explain who's with each other right there in the truck.

解释一下卡车里有谁在一起。

Yeah, we are in a GMC pickup with a U-Haul trailer on the back of it.

是的，我们坐在一辆 GMC 皮卡里，后面有一辆 U-Haul 拖车。

My dad's driving.

我爸爸在开车。

My younger brother's in here, as well.

我弟弟也在这里。

I'm going because I am the press secretary for an incoming congressman.

我去是因为我是即将上任的国会议员的新闻秘书。

Not just a press secretary, the 22-year-old press secretary, fresh out of college, for a first-time congressman who's never held elective office himself, Republican Roger Marshall of Kansas' first district.

不仅仅是一名新闻秘书，这位刚从大学毕业的 22 岁新闻秘书，是堪萨斯州第一选区的共和党人罗杰·马歇尔（Roger Marshall）的新闻秘书，他本人从未担任过民选公职。

Eric got the job since Roger Marshall was a long-shot candidate, a doctor.

埃里克得到了这份工作，因为罗杰·马歇尔是一名机会渺茫的医生候选人。

And Eric was his press secretary for the campaign.

埃里克是他竞选活动的新闻秘书。

Eric's previous Washington experience?

埃里克以前在华盛顿的经历？

Intern.

实习生。

In a way, the two of them are like Donald Trump and many of his appointees.

在某种程度上，他们两人就像唐纳德·特朗普和他任命的许多人一样。

They're newbies to politics now thrown into the biggest political swamp in the country.

他们是政治新手，现在却被扔进了这个国家最大的政治沼泽。

On the road, Eric's been getting advice from his dad on how to stick to a personal budget.

在路上，埃里克一直从父亲那里得到关于如何遵守个人预算的建议。

He's not making that much money in his new job.

他在新工作中赚不到那么多钱。

And he's been trying to get his father and his brother to listen to some very old music-- Kris Kristofferson; The Eagles; Fleetwood Mac; oh, and Elvis.

他一直试图让他的父亲和兄弟听一些非常古老的音乐——克里斯·克里斯托弗森（Kris Kristofferson）；老鹰队；弗利特伍德麦克；哦，还有埃尔维斯。

And I know that becomes a little more cliche young Republican, but Crosby, Stills, and Nash--

我知道这对年轻的共和党人来说有点陈词滥调，但是克罗斯比、斯蒂尔斯和纳什——

That's right.

没错。

Yeah, they were like '68, outside-the-convention music.

是的，他们就像 68 年的、非传统的音乐。

Ira Glass Back in the U-Haul, there's furniture that he just bought from Ikea for his new tiny studio apartment; a recliner from home that he brought, despite his mom's objections; and ties-- lots of ties.

Ira Glass 回到 U-Haul，这里有他刚从宜家购买的家具，用于他新的小型单间公寓；尽管母亲反对，他还是从家里带来了一张躺椅；和领带——很多领带。

I didn't realize I had that many ties till I went to pack.

直到我去收拾行李时，我才意识到我有那么多领带。

I would say probably 30 to 40 ties.

我想说大概有30到40个领带。

Well, last Christmas I asked to be a member of the Tie of the Month club.

嗯，去年圣诞节我要求成为本月领带俱乐部的会员。

Now, I'm no expert on being a press secretary, but from seeing them on TV, it just seems like you could get by with like four ties-- blue, red, blue stripe, red stripe.

现在，我不是担任新闻秘书的专家，但从电视上看到的情况来看，似乎你可以打四条领带——蓝色、红色、蓝色条纹、红色条纹。

Right.

正确的。

I get really self-conscious about wearing the same tie like more than once in a couple weeks.

我对几周内多次佩戴同一条领带感到非常不自在。

I also just really like ties.

我也非常喜欢领带。

Eric is very aware that's he's going to be working on Capitol Hill during a historic moment in our country, with a president who's all about disruptive change and a Republican Congress that's out to prove what it can accomplish.

埃里克非常清楚，他将在我们国家的历史性时刻在国会山工作，总统致力于颠覆性变革，而共和党国会则力图证明自己能取得什么成就。

Not that Eric agrees with the new president on every issue.

埃里克并不是在所有问题上都同意新总统的观点。

He doesn't want to build a wall and he comes from a big agricultural congressional district, so he likes our current trade deals.

他不想建墙，而且他来自一个大的农业国会选区，所以他喜欢我们目前的贸易协议。

Hes likes the TPP.

他喜欢TPP。

But he's an idealistic young conservative, the kind of Republican fanboy who was thrilled when he met Bob Dole and John McCain and Jerry Moran.

但他是一位理想主义的年轻保守派，是那种当他见到鲍勃·多尔、约翰·麦凯恩和杰里·莫兰时感到兴奋的共和党迷。

And if you're asking yourself, who's Jerry Moran?

如果你问自己，杰里·莫兰是谁？

Well, then that is exactly my point.

好吧，这正是我的观点。

He's excited to see his team poised for big things.

他很高兴看到他的团队为大事做好准备。

The Republicans, for all my lifetime, have been fighting for an opportunity such as this.

在我一生中，共和党人一直在为这样的机会而奋斗。

And it obviously did not come in the package that most of us thought it would come in, but it's here.

它显然没有出现在我们大多数人认为的包装中，但它就在这里。

And here's our big audition and we best not screw it up or it's going to be another lifetime, if we even get another chance.

这是我们的大型试镜，我们最好不要搞砸了，否则，即使我们再有一次机会，这也将是下辈子的事。

Well, today on our program, it's inauguration weekend.

嗯，今天是我们的节目，就职周末。

And after this insanely divisive and bitter election, we seem to be heading into these next four years with some people super stoked for what's about to happen and others horrified and frightened.

在这场极度分裂和痛苦的选举之后，我们似乎将进入接下来的四年，一些人对即将发生的事情感到超级兴奋，而另一些人则感到惊恐和害怕。

Today's program reflects that.

今天的节目反映了这一点。

We're going to hear from both groups.

我们将听取两个小组的意见。

And given the mutual animosity between the two sides, we have worked extra hard to find Republicans to put on the air who Democrats would find interesting to listen to and maybe even kind of like, and to find Democrats who Republicans would find interesting to listen to and maybe even like.

考虑到双方之间的相互敌意，我们加倍努力地寻找共和党人来播放民主党人会感兴趣甚至喜欢的节目，并找到共和党人会觉得有趣甚至喜欢的民主党人。

You can be the judge of how well we did.

您可以判断我们做得有多好。

From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.

来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Stay with us.

留在我们身边。

Act One, Mean Come True.

第一幕，“意义成真”。

Thursday night in the same room where the annual White House Correspondents' dinner is held was the DeploraBall.

周四晚上，一年一度的白宫记者晚宴在同一个房间举行，举办的是德普洛拉舞会(DeploraBall)。

The crowd was in a mix of inaugural formal wear-- gowns, heels, minks-- plus tons of young people in jeans and T-shirts-- red "Make America Great" hats everywhere, of course.

人群中穿着各种就职礼服——礼服、高跟鞋、貂皮大衣——还有大量穿着牛仔裤和T恤的年轻人——当然，到处都戴着写有“让美国伟大”的红色帽子。

It's not unusual for people at any inaugural ball to congratulate themselves for electing the president.

人们在任何就职舞会上祝贺自己当选总统的情况并不罕见。

These balls are for donors and fundraisers and organizers, after all.

毕竟，这些舞会是为捐助者、筹款人和组织者准备的。

At the DeploraBall, people made the case for themselves this way.

在 DeploraBall 上，人们以这种方式为自己辩护。

Jay Boone and Conor O'Hagan explain to our producer Zoe Chace, using a curse word, by the way, that we did not beep here in the podcast.

顺便说一句，杰伊·布恩和康纳·奥哈根用咒语向我们的制片人佐伊·切斯解释说，我们在播客中没有发出嘟嘟声。

The crowd at this ball--

这场舞会上的人群——

We did it.

我们做到了。

We memed him into the presidency.

我们把他推上了总统宝座。

You memed him?

你给他发了表情包？

Jay Boone We memed him into power.

杰伊·布恩（Jay Boone）我们让他掌权。

We shit-posted our way into the future.

我们用垃圾贴出了通往未来的道路。

It's true.

这是真的。

This is true.

这是真实的。

Jay Boone This is true because we directed the culture.

杰伊·布恩（Jay Boone）确实如此，因为我们主导了文化。

Directed the culture, he said, through social media-- making snarky memes for Twitter and Facebook, creating a climate, disseminating a rolling, trolling message over months and months.

他说，通过社交媒体引导文化——为 Twitter 和 Facebook 制作尖酸刻薄的模因，创造一种氛围，在几个月内传播滚动的、恶搞的信息。

Zoe explains what they're talking about and how they all ended up in this room.

佐伊解释了他们正在谈论的内容以及他们如何最终来到这个房间。

This is a place where being called a troll is a compliment.

在这个地方，被称为巨魔是一种赞美。

And the best trollers from Twitter are the celebrity guests.

Twitter 上最好的恶搞者是名人嘉宾。

Kat Niedermair explains the original concept for the ball like this.

Kat Niederair 是这样解释球的最初概念的。

A meeting of the trolls.

巨魔的会议。

A troll con.

一个巨魔骗局。

It would be a gathering of some of the most triggering personalities.

这将是一些最引人注目的人物的聚会。

There would be a video playing or projected of all of the top memes of the election.

将会播放或投影选举中所有热门模因的视频。

Kat is a small, twitchy, 22-year-old girl-- big eyes, enormous glasses, stringy blonde hair, online marketer/anarchist/libertarian/punk kid.

凯特是一个身材娇小、神经质的 22 岁女孩——大眼睛、巨大的眼镜、浓密的金发，是一名在线营销人员/无政府主义者/自由主义者/朋克孩子。

She spends a lot of time on Twitter.

她在推特上花费了大量时间。

Everyone at this ball pretty much got to know each other online, in Twitter chat rooms, on Reddit threads like "The Donald," online forums like 4Chan and 8Chan.

这次舞会上的每个人几乎都是在网上、Twitter 聊天室、Reddit 帖子（如“The Donald”）以及在线论坛（如 4Chan 和 8Chan）上相互认识的。

There was much to discuss and analyze and joke about in these corners of the internet during this election.

这次选举期间，互联网上的这些角落有很多值得讨论、分析和开玩笑的内容。

Like when those Podesta WikiLeaks came out, thousands of emails to and from Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman, this was the army that weaponized that information for political warfare.

就像波德斯塔维基解密曝光时那样，希拉里·克林顿的竞选主席收发了数千封电子邮件，这支军队将这些信息武器化以进行政治战争。

They wanted to get that information out.

他们想把这些信息泄露出去。

I wasn't one of those people who was reading every WikiLeaks, but a lot of my friends were.

我不是那些阅读所有维基解密的人之一，但我的很多朋友都是。

I knew a batch would drop.

我知道一批会掉落。

Someone would download them.

有人会下载它们。

Many people would download them.

很多人都会下载它们。

Many people would read through them.

很多人都会阅读它们。

And then there was a bit of an industry created.

然后就创建了一个行业。

You've got a few different types of people that you'll find in the Twittersphere.

您可以在 Twitter 圈中找到几种不同类型的人。

There are the researchers.

有研究人员。

There are the compilers.

有编译器。

And then there's the meme magicians.

然后是模因魔术师。

The meme magicians?

模因魔术师？

Kat Niedermair Yes.

凯特·尼德迈尔是的。

The meme magicians.

模因魔术师。

They are the ones who are able to translate what the people who are spending 18 hours a day reading through the emails.

他们能够翻译每天花 18 个小时阅读电子邮件的人们的内容。

Here's how it works.

这是它的工作原理。

This is an email from the chairman of Hillary's campaign to other people on the team about potential vice presidential picks.

这是希拉里竞选团队主席发给团队其他人员的一封关于潜在副总统人选的电子邮件。

So this is from Podesta from March the 17th, 2016.

这是 2016 年 3 月 17 日来自波德斯塔的消息。

"Let me know if there are people you would like to see added or removed before we begin the process.

“在我们开始流程之前，请告诉我您是否希望添加或删除某些人。

I have organized names in rough food groups." And from there, the food groups begin.

我已经把名字分成了粗粮组。”从那里开始，食物组开始。

The first group is Javier Becerra, Julian Castro, Eric Garcetti, Tom Perez, Ken Salazar.

第一组是哈维尔·贝塞拉、朱利安·卡斯特罗、埃里克·加塞蒂、汤姆·佩雷斯、肯·萨拉查。

It's a group of Hispanic people.

这是一群西班牙裔人。

Then it's a group of women, mostly white women.

然后是一群女性，其中大部分是白人女性。

There's a group of black people, a group of rich people.

有一群黑人，一群有钱人。

And Bernie Sanders.

还有伯尼·桑德斯。

Zoe Chace One of the meme magicians, this guy Triggerbait, turned that into a meme.

佐伊·切斯（Zoe Chace）是模因魔术师之一，这个家伙 Triggerbait 将其变成了模因。

Simple, just a picture of the food pyramid with little emojis of black people at the base, Hispanic people and women right above, rich people at the top.

很简单，只是一张食物金字塔的图片，底部是黑人的小表情符号，上面是西班牙人和妇女，顶部是富人。

He included a link to the original email.

他添加了原始电子邮件的链接。

Kat's job was to collect stuff like this and spread it around.

凯特的工作就是收集这样的东西并将其传播出去。

Like before a presidential debate, she'd put the word out.

就像总统辩论之前一样，她会说出来。

The great thing about the Podesta emails in particular, she says, is they got everyone working together.

她说，波德斯塔电子邮件的伟大之处在于，它们让每个人都齐心协力。

A bunch of the Twitter trolls swarmed together on the same quest.

一群推特巨魔为了同一个任务聚集在一起。

That's kind of the funny thing about trolls.

这就是巨魔的有趣之处。

If they don't have a thing to do, then they're going to be trolling either way.

如果他们无事可做，那么他们就会以任何方式进行拖钓。

But if they've got a mission with a clear focus, it meant that the trolls were trolling, but they were all trolling in the same direction, sort of.

但如果他们的任务有明确的重点，那就意味着巨魔们在进行恶搞，但他们都在朝着同一个方向进行恶搞。

Right.

正确的。

Around these emails.

围绕这些电子邮件。

Kat Niedermair Yeah.

凯特·尼德迈尔是的。

And when Trump's campaign was at its lowest point, after the Access Hollywood tape came out and Republican leaders were abandoning him, the deplorables swooped in to the rescue.

当特朗普的竞选活动处于最低点时，在《走进好莱坞》录像带问世、共和党领导人抛弃他之后，可悲的人们突然出手救援。

Some of the most popular trolls on Twitter came up with this MAGA3X hashtag.

Twitter 上一些最受欢迎的喷子想出了这个 MAGA3X 标签。

That's Make America Great Again three times.

这是“让美国再次伟大”的三倍。

Do three Trump things every day.

每天做三件特朗普的事。

Hold pro-Trump flash mobs.

控制支持特朗普的快闪族。

Get three Trump supporters to the polls.

让三名特朗普支持者去投票站。

Retweet three Trump-related memes.

转发三个与特朗普相关的模因。

This did reach a lot of people, including deplorable Wiggleman-- Phillip Wiglesworth offline.

这确实影响到了很多人，包括可悲的威格曼——菲利普·威格尔斯沃思（Phillip Wiglesworth），他已经离线了。

He's a vet living in Florida.

他是一名住在佛罗里达州的兽医。

He voted for Obama in 2008.

2008年，他投票支持奥巴马。

He'd started this election as Trump-curious.

他在这次选举之初就对特朗普感到好奇。

He got caught up retweeting all these nutty memes and jokes till he became a hardcore Trump fan.

他开始转发所有这些疯狂的模因和笑话，直到他成为特朗普的铁杆粉丝。

Basically, he's the 3X in MAGA3X.

基本上，他是 MAGA3X 中的 3X。

There's a nice, really funny YouTube video.

YouTube 上有一个非常有趣的视频。

Let me find it in my favorites here really quick.

让我很快在我的收藏夹中找到它。

His YouTube name his SocialistMop.

他的 YouTube 名称为 SocialistMop。

And he did a video on Hillary Clinton and James Comey.

他还制作了有关希拉里·克林顿和詹姆斯·科米的视频。

And he put James Comey's press conference to music with auto-tune.

他还用自动调音将詹姆斯·科米的新闻发布会设为音乐。

(AUTOTUNED) Good morning.

（自动调整）早上好。

I'm here to give you an update on the FBI's investigation of Secretary Clinton.

我来这里是为了向您介绍联邦调查局对克林顿国务卿调查的最新情况。

What I'm gonna do is tell you what we're recommending, but first let me tell you what we found.

我要做的就是告诉您我们的建议，但首先让我告诉您我们发现了什么。

110 emails, 52 email chains have been determined to contain classified information--

110 封电子邮件、52 个电子邮件链已被确定包含机密信息——

Deplorable Wiggleman came to the DeploraBall to commune with like-minded retweeters.

可悲的维格曼来到 DeploraBall 与志同道合的转发者交流。

He wasn't the type to comb through WikiLeaks himself.

他不是那种会亲自梳理维基解密的人。

He just laughed at what came around.

他只是嘲笑周围发生的事情。

He'd started following some of the leaders of the MAGA3X team-- Mike Cernovich, Jack Posobiec-- over the summer.

今年夏天，他开始关注 MAGA3X 团队的一些领导者——Mike Cernovich、Jack Posobiec。

By September, he was fully in.

到了九月份，他就完全融入了。

He changed his name, took a movement name.

他改了名字，取了一个运动名称。

His old Twitter handle was Harleytime1.

他的旧 Twitter 用户名是 Harleytime1。

I made it Deplorable Wiggleman when Hillary called us deplorable.

当希拉里称我们可悲时，我把它变成了可悲的维格曼。

The Twitterverse grabbed hold of that moniker and we owned it.

Twitterverse 抓住了这个绰号，我们也拥有了它。

And I think that's why she lost.

我认为这就是她失败的原因。

Mhm.

嗯。

I personally-- yeah.

我个人——是的。

Yeah, definitely.

是的，绝对是。

She also called Bernie supporters, what?

她还称伯尼的支持者，什么？

Basement dwellers?

地下室住户？

Oh, my goodness.

哦，我的天啊。

Is she trying to lose votes?

她是想失去选票吗？

That's what it seems like.

看起来就是这样。

On election night, he waited up till it was clear Trump had won.

在选举之夜，他一直等到特朗普明显获胜。

I got out.

我下了车。

I put my flag on my motorcycle, and I went and rode around town for a couple hours at 2, 3, 4 o'clock in the morning.

我把我的旗帜挂在摩托车上，然后在凌晨 2、3、4 点在城里骑了几个小时。

Got myself some McDonald's for breakfast then came home and went to bed.

给自己买了一些麦当劳当早餐，然后回家睡觉了。

To counter Michelle Obama, it was the first time in a long time that I felt hope for our country.

为了对抗米歇尔·奥巴马，这是我很长一段时间以来第一次对我们的国家感到希望。

Really felt hope for our country.

真切地感受到了我们国家的希望。

I don't need to tell you that lots of people felt the opposite on election night-- despair, fear.

我不需要告诉你，很多人在选举之夜感受到了相反的感觉——绝望、恐惧。

Trump's America doesn't necessarily feel like a welcoming space for everybody.

特朗普治下的美国并不一定是一个欢迎所有人的地方。

Deplorable Twitter does not, either.

可悲的推特也没有。

This pro-Trump corner of the internet can be super racist.

互联网上这个支持特朗普的角落可能是超级种族主义者。

It includes people who call themselves alt-right, or white nationalists.

其中包括自称另类右翼或白人民族主义者的人。

It seems like, in a way, some of the deplorable internet, the trolling internet, was creating a space to say racist stuff.

在某种程度上，似乎一些可悲的互联网、恶搞互联网正在创造一个发表种族主义言论的空间。

So the more that it offends and the more that it triggers, the more they'll say it.

因此，它越冒犯、触发越多，他们就会说得越多。

Kat says it doesn't mean they're actually haters.

凯特说，这并不意味着他们实际上是仇恨者。

They're making a point.

他们正在表达一个观点。

We go over this one guy's tweets, Baked Alaska.

我们回顾一下这个人的推文，《烤阿拉斯加》。

Big Twitter personality in this world.

这个世界上推特的大人物。

He does stuff like retweet white supremacist David Duke.

他做的事情就像转发白人至上主义者大卫·杜克（David Duke）一样。

Are they really hateful?

他们真的有仇恨吗？

Zoe Chace "I can't wait till you're deported," "deport you." That is hateful.

Zoe Chace “我等不及你被驱逐出境了，”“驱逐你。”那是可恨的。

Yeah, I guess.

是的，我想。

I think he's joking, though.

不过我认为他是在开玩笑。

Yeah, but-- Kat Niedermair I know, I know.

是的，但是 - Kat Niederair 我知道，我知道。

You kind of like that stuff?

你有点喜欢那种东西？

Kat Niedermair Uh-- no. I mean, yeah.

凯特·尼德迈尔呃——不。我的意思是，是的。

I don't know.

我不知道。

I like trolling.

我喜欢拖钓。

I enjoy trolling because I think that things should be talked about.

我喜欢恶搞，因为我认为事情应该被讨论。

I think that trolling encourages that.

我认为恶搞行为鼓励了这种行为。

But I don't know.

但我不知道。

I mean, I think that if you're saying that actually at somebody, then-- I mean, it depends on the context.

我的意思是，我认为如果你实际上是在对某人说这句话，那么——我的意思是，这取决于上下文。

We go back and forth.

我们来回走动。

I tell her, I don't get why you'd make hateful jokes like that.

我告诉她，我不明白你为什么要开这样可恶的玩笑。

Ever.

曾经。

She says, it's making a bigger point about free speech and political correctness.

她说，这更加强调了言论自由和政治正确性。

I'm like, this is creating an environment where an actual guy came to DC and, at the end of his speech, called out, heil Trump.

我想，这正在创造一个环境，一个真正的人来到华盛顿，在演讲结束时大喊“特朗普万岁”。

He was trolling.

他在恶搞。

Zoe Chace But why is that a joke?

佐伊·切斯但这为什么是个笑话呢？

Because you can't say it.

因为你不能说出来。

Because it offends people.

因为这样会得罪人。

That's why it's a joke.

这就是为什么这是一个笑话。

It offends people, but it also has consequences, right?

虽然得罪了人，但也有后果，对吧？

Like when people said heil Hitler, there were these big consequences.

就像当人们说希特勒万岁时，就会产生这些重大后果。

They just don't care about the consequences?

他们根本不关心后果吗？

Not really.

并不真地。

But they also-- he said "hail Trump" because he thought it was funny, because it's like not really quite "heil," but it's like very close.

但他们也——他说“特朗普万岁”，因为他觉得这很有趣，因为这不像是真正的“万岁”，但它非常接近。

I see a lot of the kids online are either LARPing-- Live-Action Role-Playing-- or just seeking to offend because they want a reaction.

我看到很多网上的孩子要么是 LARPing（真人角色扮演），要么只是想冒犯，因为他们想要得到回应。

I wonder if that's what Trump is doing, playing a role to get a reaction.

我想知道这是否就是特朗普正在做的事情，发挥作用以获得反应。

Is Trump LARPing?

特朗普在拉普吗？

Trolling?

拖钓？

Is he saying what he actually believes?

他说的是他真正相信的吗？

Kat thinks Trump's been trolling since the beginning.

凯特认为特朗普从一开始就一直在恶搞。

He was completely trolling the Republican establishment.

他完全是在戏弄共和党建制派。

Little Marco, Lyin' Ted, inviting Bill Clinton's rape accuser to the presidential debate-- he offended his way to the top.

小马可，说谎的泰德，邀请比尔·克林顿的强奸指控者参加总统辩论——他以冒犯的方式登上了高层。

Or as Kat puts it, Donald Trump trolled his way into becoming the President of the United States of America.

或者正如凯特所说，唐纳德·特朗普是通过自己的努力成为美利坚合众国总统的。

That's why they like him.

这就是他们喜欢他的原因。

He's one of them.

他就是其中之一。

The greatest troll who's ever been.

有史以来最伟大的巨魔。

And the DeploraBall, Kat tells me, that's the place for the trolls of Twitter to celebrate the troll-in-chief.

凯特告诉我，DeploraBall 是推特巨魔们庆祝巨魔头子的地方。

Zoe Chace is one of the producers of our show.

佐伊·查斯是我们节目的制片人之一。

Act Two, Dreamers Get Real.

第二幕，梦想家成真。

So President Trump has said from the beginning that he would get rid of DACA.

因此，特朗普总统从一开始就表示他将废除 DACA。

DACA is short for Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals.

DACA 是“童年抵达暂缓遣返”的缩写。

It's the executive action taken by President Obama for the DREAM Act kids who were brought to the United States when they were children.

这是奥巴马总统针对童年时被带到美国的梦想法案孩子们采取的行政行动。

Under DACA, they got to register with the government, and, in exchange, they didn't get deported.

根据 DACA，他们必须向政府登记，作为交换，他们没有被驱逐出境。

Suddenly they could get work permits, which was a big deal.

突然间，他们可以获得工作许可证，这是一件大事。

President Trump could end DACA immediately in his first week.

特朗普总统可能会在上任第一周立即终止 DACA。

But after the election, he seemed to backpedal a little on DACA and said in interviews that he would, quote, "work something out for DACA recipients." So since the election DACA recipients have not been sure what to think.

但选举结束后，他似乎在 DACA 问题上有所退缩，并在采访中表示，他会“为 DACA 受益者找到一些办法”。因此，自选举以来，DACA 受益人一直不知道该怎么想。

Of course, they're worried.

当然，他们很担心。

If DACA is rescinded, their names and addresses are in a government database.

如果废除 DACA，他们的姓名和地址将保存在政府数据库中。

The government knows where to find them if it wants to end their protections and deport them.

如果政府想要终止对他们的保护并将他们驱逐出境，他们知道在哪里可以找到他们。

Reporter Seth Freed Wessler has been talking to several DACA kids since the election, and he's found some who were thinking about their options.

自选举以来，记者塞思·弗里德·韦斯勒 (Seth Freed Wessler) 一直在与几名 DACA 儿童进行交谈，他发现一些人正在考虑自己的选择。

A few weeks after the election, Kenia and her brother Henrri started planning a trip to El Salvador, where they were born.

选举几周后，凯尼亚和她的兄弟亨利开始计划前往他们出生的萨尔瓦多旅行。

They haven't been back in 12 years.

他们已经12年没有回来了。

And at this point, they're total New York kids.

此时，他们完全是纽约孩子。

She's 22 and studies film, and she looks like it.

她今年 22 岁，学的是电影，而且看起来也很像。

She wears black, has chunky glasses.

她穿着黑色衣服，戴着厚厚的眼镜。

Henrri's 21.

亨利 21 岁。

He's a music major, plays classical guitar.

他主修音乐，弹古典吉他。

Preppier than his sister.

比他姐姐还要聪明。

Kenya says that the threat that Donald Trump could just rescind DACA, that she might have to go back to being totally undocumented, or even be deported, it made her wonder.

肯尼亚表示，唐纳德·特朗普可能会取消 DACA 的威胁，她可能不得不回到完全无证状态，甚至被驱逐出境，这让她感到好奇。

I'm thinking, could I make my home somewhere else?

我在想，我能不能把家安在别的地方？

Can El Salvador become home?

萨尔瓦多能成为家吗？

If I migrated to a country and thought of it as my home before, can I do that again?

如果我移民到一个国家并把它当作我的家，我可以再这样做吗？

Can I just go somewhere else?

我可以去别的地方吗？

She and her brother wanted to go back to El Salvador, for a visit, just to see what it would be like just in case they had to go back someday.

她和她的兄弟想回到萨尔瓦多，去拜访一下，只是想看看那里会是什么样子，以防有一天他们不得不回去。

That's the only thing I really have control over right now.

这是我现在唯一真正能控制的事情。

I don't have control over Trump becoming president.

我无法控制特朗普成为总统。

I don't have control about the decisions he's going to take.

我无法控制他将要做出的决定。

But I do have control in seeing my family right now.

但我现在确实可以控制与家人见面。

Most of her family is still in El Salvador.

她的大部分家人仍在萨尔瓦多。

In November, their grandfather had a stroke.

11月，他们的祖父中风了。

It seemed like he could die soon.

看来他很快就要死了。

He'd pretty much raised them before they left for America.

在他们去美国之前，他几乎已经把他们抚养长大了。

Kenia and Henrri really wanted to see him.

肯尼娅和亨利真的很想见他。

And they found out that people with DACA can apply for this special permission to leave the US and come back in, but you need a really good reason to leave, like a family emergency, which they now had with their grandfather.

他们发现，拥有 DACA 的人可以申请这项特殊许可离开美国并返回美国，但你需要一个非常充分的理由离开，比如家庭紧急情况，他们现在和祖父在一起了。

Here's Henrri.

这是亨利。

Knowing that he's sick right now and who knows how long he has does scare me.

知道他现在病了，谁知道他病了多久，这确实让我感到害怕。

I want to see him as soon as possible.

我想尽快见到他。

I'm honestly scared for his health.

老实说，我很担心他的健康。

In the weeks after the election, a lot more DACA recipients applied to travel abroad than usual-- four times as many according to a couple of lawyers I talked to.

在选举后的几周内，申请出国旅行的 DACA 受益者比平时多得多，据我采访过的几位律师称，这一数字是平时的四倍。

In December, a few days before Christmas, Kenia and Henrri were granted permission to travel.

12 月，圣诞节前几天，肯尼娅和亨利获准旅行。

Pulling it off wasn't going to be easy.

要把它拉下来并不容易。

The whole thing was going to cost them more than $2,000 between the plane tickets, the documentation to re-enter the country, which was $360 each.

整个事情要花费他们 2,000 多美元，包括机票和重新进入该国的文件，每张 360 美元。

They just recently re-upped their DACA status.

他们最近刚刚重新提升了 DACA 身份。

That was another $495 each.

每人又多了 495 美元。

Plus, they're missing three weeks of work, Kenia as a waitress at a restaurant and Henrri as a waiter at a catering hall.

另外，他们缺席了三周的工作，凯尼亚在一家餐厅担任女服务员，亨利在一家餐饮大厅担任服务员。

It's a big hit.

这是一个很大的打击。

They're paying their own way through school, living pretty much week to week in their parents' house on Long Island.

他们自己支付学费，几乎每周都住在长岛父母的家里。

Their parents thought the trip was a good idea.

他们的父母认为这次旅行是个好主意。

My dad always says, Kenia, don't worry.

我爸爸总是说，凯尼娅，别担心。

You can go back to El Salvador.

你可以回萨尔瓦多了。

You can work at an airport or a hotel somewhere where they need bilinguals.

您可以在需要双语人员的机场或酒店工作。

I'm like, oh, hello no. I'm like, well, that is not the life I pictured for myself.

我想，哦，你好，不。我想，好吧，这不是我为自己描绘的生活。

But for them, they see us as having opportunities.

但对他们来说，他们认为我们有机会。

But again, they're thinking of survival.

但他们再次考虑的是生存。

They're not thinking of dreams like the American-- you know how we think.

他们不像美国人那样思考梦想——你知道我们是怎么想的。

The next time I talk to them, just after New Year's, they were in El Salvador for the first time since they left as kids.

下次我和他们交谈时，就在新年之后，他们自从小时候离开以来第一次来到萨尔瓦多。

I called them up on the phone.

我给他们打电话。

Hello?

你好？

Seth Freed Wessler Hi, Kenia.

塞斯·弗里德·韦斯勒嗨，凯尼娅。

Are you guys recording yourselves?

你们自己录音吗？

So we are, actually, but--

事实上，我们是这样的，但是——

Kenia brought a bunch of her film school equipment to record herself with and to document their trip.

肯尼娅带来了一堆她的电影学校设备来记录自己并记录他们的旅行。

So where are-- like where are you sitting right now?

那么你现在在哪里？比如你坐在哪里？

What do you mean you're sitting in a tree?

你坐在树上是什么意思？

Like in a tree?

就像在树上一样？

Yeah.

是的。

There's this small tree by the house, so we're just sitting here to get clearer sound because of the signal.

房子旁边有一棵小树，所以我们只是坐在这里，因为信号更清晰。

How far off the ground are you sitting right now?

你现在坐的位置离地面有多远？

That branch?

那个分行？

It would be like five feet.

就像五英尺一样。

When Kenia and Henrri arrived at the airport in El Salvador, they got off the plane.

当肯尼娅和亨利抵达萨尔瓦多机场时，他们下了飞机。

And then I see a lot of faces.

然后我看到很多面孔。

And I'm like, yo, they look like they're my family, but I didn't know who they were.

我想，哟，他们看起来像是我的家人，但我不知道他们是谁。

And then I see papita barely standing like in the middle of the crowd of people who were waiting.

然后我看到帕皮塔几乎站在等待的人群中间。

And I'm like, papita!

我想，帕皮塔！

They hadn't expected to see their grandfather.

他们没想到会见到自己的祖父。

He was still pretty much bedridden.

他仍然卧床不起。

But the family had pooled their money to pay for a microbus so he could get there to greet them.

但家人凑了钱买了一辆小型巴士，这样他就可以去那里迎接他们。

Kenia rushed through the crowd of people to hug him.

肯尼娅冲过人群拥抱他。

And he's like so little.

而且他还这么小。

I remember this tall, big man with a sombrero.

我记得这个身材高大、戴着宽边帽的男人。

And his face looks so old in the beginning that I was like, I'm surprised I'm even holding him right now.

一开始他的脸看起来很苍老，我想，我很惊讶我现在还抱着他。

OK.

好的。

So today is day three of our trip to El Salvador.

今天是我们萨尔瓦多之旅的第三天。

We're recording from bed again.

Every night, they'd record their impressions and there was a lot that was different from their hazy kid memories of El Salvador.

每天晚上，他们都会记录自己的印象，其中有很多与他们对萨尔瓦多的朦胧记忆不同。

Their grandmother still made coffee.

他们的祖母仍然煮咖啡。

The hammock where their grandfather used to lay after a hard in the cornfield was still there.

祖父在玉米地劳作后常躺的吊床还在那里。

But other stuff wasn't like they'd thought.

Like we're amazed at how beautiful El Salvador is.

就像我们对萨尔瓦多的美丽感到惊讶一样。

We remembered it, but we didn't remember completely, and it's so beautiful.

我们记得，但记得不完全，它是如此美丽。

The whole time we were coming up here, we're like, I want to stay.

我们来到这里的整个过程中，我们都在想，我想留下来。

I want to stay.

我想留下来。

But then you sit down with everybody and you have a conversation and gang talk is a lot of it.

但当你和每个人坐下来进行交谈时，大部分都是帮派谈话。

You can't escape that conversation of violence.

你无法逃避暴力对话。

When they were little, the gangs had mostly been confined to cities, but now they'd reached little towns like theirs.

小时候，帮派大多局限于城市，但现在他们已经到达了像他们这样的小镇。

Before the trip, Kenia had been careful not to ask her relatives for too many details about the violence.

在出发之前，凯尼娅一直小心翼翼地不向亲戚询问有关暴力事件的太多细节。

She was afraid to know.

她害怕知道。

But being there, it was impossible to escape.

但身在其中，想要逃脱是不可能的。

They kept hearing this one story about their cousin Daniel.

他们不断听到有关他们表弟丹尼尔的故事。

Daniel gave a friend a ride on his motorcycle to a nearby town one night.

一天晚上，丹尼尔载一位朋友骑摩托车去附近的一个小镇。

It was a little later than Daniel felt comfortable.

时间比丹尼尔感到舒服的时间晚了一点。

Normally nobody goes out after 8 o'clock.

一般情况下八点以后就没有人出去了。

He told the story to Henrri as a warning.

他把这个故事告诉亨利作为警告。

Henrri says Daniel was on his way back home and a group of guys signaled him to pull over.

亨利说丹尼尔正在回家的路上，一群人示意他靠边停车。

They forced him to stop there with the motorcycle.

他们强迫他把摩托车停在那里。

Once they had that, they started taking his stuff.

一旦他们得到了，他们就开始拿走他的东西。

He had a blue shirt on.

他穿着一件蓝色衬衫。

I'm not sure if maybe that's some symbolism here for gangs, as well.

我不确定这对于帮派来说是否也具有某种象征意义。

I think it was red.

我认为它是红色的。

Henrri It was blue.

亨利那是蓝色的。

I don't know.

我不知道。

Well, it was either a blue or red shirt.

嗯，那是一件蓝色或红色的衬衫。

I'd have to make sure on that.

我必须确定这一点。

But they took his shirt.

但他们拿走了他的衬衫。

They took his wallet, all his money.

他们拿走了他的钱包，所有的钱。

And then the next thing that they asked them for was for his papers, like the license and all that stuff, because that's how they see what town people are from.

The license showed that Daniel was from Los Achiotes, their rivals.

许可证显示丹尼尔来自他们的竞争对手洛斯阿奇奥特斯。

Once they'd robbed him, it seemed like they might let him go.

一旦他们抢劫了他，他们似乎就会放他走。

But he heard that another guy who was just like, he's from the Achiotes.

但他听说另一个人就像是，他来自阿奇奥特斯。

We know we hate those guys.

我们知道我们讨厌那些家伙。

Why are you going to leave him alive?

你为什么要留他活着？

So then at that point, the other guy that was about to let him go grabbed him, told him to get on his knees, and pointed a gun to his head.

就在这时，另一个正要放他走的人抓住了他，让他跪下，并用枪指着他的头。

And right when he was about to kill him, this other car just came out of nowhere and shone his headlights onto them.

就在他正要杀了他的时候，另一辆车突然冲出来，把车头灯照到了他们身上。

Everyone stood still for a second, long enough for Daniel to reach into his pocket and grab the keys to his motorcycle.

每个人都静止了一秒钟，时间足以让丹尼尔把手伸进口袋，抓起摩托车钥匙。

He ran to the bike, picked it up, and took off.

他跑到自行车旁，把它捡起来，然后就走了。

But as he was riding away, one of them got a big rock and threw it at him and hit him in the back because they were hoping to take him down and then kill him with that.

And he said that, as he was driving away, he overheard them shouting, we're going to get you, and we're going to find you, and we're going to kill you with that.

I'm just super freaked out.

我只是超级害怕。

This is unbelievable.

这太令人难以置信了。

And just like, damn.

就像，该死的。

The only reason he got out of there was because he got lucky.

他能离开那里的唯一原因是他运气好。

Daniel had actually lived with them in the US for years when they were little.

事实上，当他们还小的时候，丹尼尔就和他们一起在美国生活了很多年。

And in a lot of ways, Daniel is who Henrri and Kenia might be if they did end up back in El Salvador.

从很多方面来说，如果亨利和凯尼亚最终回到萨尔瓦多，丹尼尔就是他们可能的样子。

He owns his own construction company, has a nice house, a family.

他拥有自己的建筑公司，有一所漂亮的房子，一个家庭。

By any standard, he's made it.

无论以何种标准衡量，他都做到了。

But it's just a fact.

但这只是事实。

El Salvador has one of the highest murder rates in the world.

萨尔瓦多是世界上谋杀率最高的国家之一。

A recent survey of Salvadorans found that 40% wanted to get out of the country.

最近对萨尔瓦多人的一项调查发现，40% 的人想离开该国。

Now Kenia and Henrri could see why.

现在凯尼亚和亨利明白原因了。

This is from one of their late-night recordings.

这是他们深夜录制的一张录音。

I feel like as time passes I do love it here and everything.

我觉得随着时间的流逝，我确实喜欢这里和一切。

It's like a romantic little dream you have of living here in peace.

这就像一个浪漫的小梦想，让你平静地生活在这里。

If we could live in peace, then yes.

如果我们能和平相处，那是的。

I would say definitely.

我肯定会说。

But that's the thing.

但就是这样。

You do one wrong thing and you don't get a redo.

你做了一件错误的事情，你就无法重做。

Yeah, things are super hard here.

是的，这里的事情非常困难。

Beautiful, beautiful place, but life is damn hard.

美丽的地方，美丽的地方，但生活却很艰难。

It's tough.

它太硬。

Seth Freed Wessler When Kenia and Henrri really tried to imagine what their lives would be like in Los Achiotes, they started seeing all these other problems.

Where their grandparents live is really isolated.

他们的祖父母住的地方确实很偏僻。

There's nothing to do, no internet.

没有什么可做的，没有互联网。

Everything's expensive, but there's no work.

什么都贵，但是没有工作。

By the way, the closest movie theater here--

对了，这里最近的电影院——

It's in the city.

它在城市里。

Kenia It's in San Salvador.

Kenia 在圣萨尔瓦多。

That's two hours away, bruh.

还有两个小时的路程，兄弟。

Two hours away.

两个小时路程。

I can't go right now and watch a movie anywhere here.

我现在不能去这里看电影。

Insane.

疯狂的。

I gotta change that.

我必须改变这一点。

I mean, where are the sponsors?

我的意思是，赞助商在哪里？

We gotta get some film festivals out here.

我们得在这里举办一些电影节。

But Kenia says she probably couldn't make a living doing film here, or documentaries, or photography.

但凯尼娅说，她可能无法在这里靠拍电影、纪录片或摄影谋生。

And the university she looked into didn't have a film department.

而她考察的大学并没有电影系。

And Kenia feels like her chances of making it here are even more difficult because she's a woman.

肯尼娅觉得她在这里取得成功的机会更加困难，因为她是一名女性。

She's watched women stand behind while men did all the talking.

她看到女人站在后面，而男人却在说话。

At a party with her relatives she was chatting with her aunt.

在一次与亲戚的聚会上，她正在和姨妈聊天。

Her son is just chilling with his girlfriend and whatever, and she's like, oh, he must be so cold.

她的儿子只是和他的女朋友在一起，什么的，她就像，哦，他一定很冷。

Take a coffee for him.

给他倒杯咖啡。

And I'm like, what?

我想，什么？

He has legs.

他有腿。

Like they have to always-- my aunt always feels like she has to protect her little boy.

就像他们必须一直做的那样——我姨妈总是觉得她必须保护她的小男孩。

This is how women are here with men.

这就是女人与男人相处的方式。

They have to, I don't know, be like the mom.

我不知道，他们必须像妈妈一样。

Even as a partner, they're being moms to them.

即使作为伴侣，他们也是他们的母亲。

And that makes me uncomfortable.

这让我感到不舒服。

I think visiting is great, and I love it, but I don't know if I could do it for a long term.

我认为访问很棒，我喜欢它，但我不知道我是否可以长期这样做。

Henrri and I have been talking about it and I think it comes down to, if I had no choice left, I would definitely make the best life here.

亨利和我一直在谈论这个问题，我认为归根结底，如果我别无选择，我一定会在这里过上最好的生活。

But right now it's so much easier in the United States because I'm already ahead in a world that I really under-- at least I understand more than El Salvador.

So if DACA ends, they probably won't move to El Salvador.

因此，如果 DACA 结束，他们可能不会搬到萨尔瓦多。

They'll try to make it in the US like every other undocumented immigrant-- working off the books, worrying they could get deported at any time.

他们会像所有其他无证移民一样，努力在美国取得成功——做一些非正式的工作，担心自己随时可能被驱逐出境。

Kenia says she hates her choices, but the crappy option they know seems better than the crappy option they just checked out.

凯妮亚说她讨厌自己的选择，但他们知道的蹩脚选择似乎比他们刚刚检查过的蹩脚选择要好。

They're back in New York now.

他们现在回到纽约了。

They were allowed to stay overseas till January 20, which happened to be inauguration day.

他们被允许在海外停留到1月20日，恰巧是就职日。

They came back a few days earlier just to be safe.

为了安全起见，他们提前几天回来了。

Seth Freed Wessler.

塞斯·弗里德·韦斯勒。

He writes frequently about immigration.

他经常撰写有关移民的文章。

By the way, even if the president decides to get rid of DACA, Republican Lindsey Graham and Democrat Dick Durbin have announced legislation that would keep DACA protections going for people like Kenia and Henrri.

A few other Republicans have signed on-- Jeff Flake and Lisa Murkowski.

其他一些共和党人也签署了协议——杰夫·弗莱克（Jeff Flake）和丽莎·默科斯基（Lisa Murkowski）。

The bill has not been formally introduced.

该法案尚未正式提出。

Which brings us to Act Three.

这让我们进入第三幕。

Act Three, Law and Border.

第三幕，法律与边境。

So let's turn now from DACA kids to a group that you would expect would be pretty stoked for the new president, Border Patrol agents.

现在让我们从 DACA 儿童转向一个你会认为新任总统会非常兴奋的群体——边境巡逻人员。

Their union endorsed Donald Trump last March.

他们的工会去年三月支持唐纳德·特朗普。

He's the first presidential candidate they've ever endorsed during the primaries.

他是他们在初选期间认可的第一位总统候选人。

Stephanie Foo went to Texas to see how they're feeling.

斯蒂芬妮·符 (Stephanie Foo) 前往德克萨斯州了解他们的感受。

Before I tell you what bugged Chris Cabrera about his job under President Obama, let me describe him for you.

在我告诉你克里斯·卡布雷拉在奥巴马总统领导下的工作中遇到什么困扰之前，让我为你描述一下他。

Chris has been a Border Patrol agent since 2001.

克里斯自 2001 年起担任边境巡逻人员。

He's 43, has chewing tobacco tucked under his lip, and a tattoo of army airborne wings on his arm.

他今年 43 岁，嘴唇下夹着嚼烟，手臂上有陆军空降兵翅膀的纹身。

He used to be a paratrooper.

他曾经是一名伞兵。

And he likes the action part of his job.

他喜欢工作中的行动部分。

It's like playing hide-and-seek, he says, except you're always it.

他说，这就像玩捉迷藏，只不过你总是那个。

But he also sees it as a humanitarian job.

但他也将其视为一项人道主义工作。

He keeps his son's old toys in the back of his truck for when he picks up children crossing the border.

他将儿子的旧玩具放在卡车后部，以便接孩子过境时使用。

He's rescued migrants who were dumped in the Rio Grande River by smugglers.

他解救了被走私者扔进里奥格兰德河的移民。

Like a third of all Border Patrol agents, he's Latino himself, which is something he gets flak for.

I've even had it from some of my in-laws.

我什至从我的一些姻亲那里得到过。

How could you do that to your own people?

你怎么能这样对自己的人呢？

Maybe not Thanksgiving, but just out there barbecuing or something.

也许不是感恩节，只是出去烧烤什么的。

I tell them, look, I can do my job with compassion.

我告诉他们，看，我可以带着同情心做好我的工作。

I know I can do my job the right way.

我知道我能以正确的方式完成我的工作。

I said, but if I wasn't there, who's to say the guy that fills my shoes is not going have the same level of compassion that I do?

我说，但如果我不在那儿，谁能说接替我的人不会有和我一样的同情心呢？

But anyway, back to the thing that drives Chris nuts about his job.

但无论如何，回到让克里斯对工作感到疯狂的事情上来。

In the last two weeks of the Obama presidency, he takes me out to this spot, one of the busiest places people cross the border.

在奥巴马总统任期的最后两周，他带我去了这个地方，这是人们过境最繁忙的地方之一。

500 people most days, he says.

他说，大多数时候有 500 人。

We're maybe half a mile from the Rio Grande, the border between Texas and Mexico.

我们距离德克萨斯州和墨西哥之间的边界里奥格兰德河大约有半英里。

Yeah, I would say here not too long from now somebody will come through here.

是的，我想说，不久之后就会有人经过这里。

Is there a time of day that they usually come?

他们通常在一天中的某个时间来吗？

Usually around now.

通常现在左右。

Yeah, see?

是啊，看到了吗？

You got some footprints right here.

你在这里留下了一些脚印。

Oh.

哦。

They're small.

它们很小。

They look like kid's prints.

它们看起来像孩子的指纹。

Yeah.

是的。

Look at that.

看看那个。

I mean, that one's new right there.

我的意思是，那个是新的。

That one's real fresh.

那个真的很新鲜。

Chris isn't on duty right now, just wandering around in a Detroit Tigers T-shirt.

And it's getting pretty hot out, so we walk back to his pickup to sit and wait.

外面变得很热，所以我们走回他的皮卡车旁坐下来等待。

We're in his car for seven minutes and 37 seconds when it happens.

Oh, my god.

我的天啊。

There's three people coming down the road.

路上来了三个人。

It looks like we've got a group of four.

看来我们是四人一组。

I'm calling it in.

我正在呼唤它。

Yeah, this is Cabrera, mike 207.

是的，这是卡布雷拉，迈克 207。

I'm off duty.

我下班了。

I'm down here record--

我在这里记录——

It's a young man and his teenage sister, and an older man and his teenage son.

They have to have seen our car, but they don't run or hide.

The travelers amble right up to us.

旅客们缓步向我们走来。

Chris goes up to say hi.

克里斯上前打招呼。

[SPEAKING SPANISH] Stephanie Foo The older man speaks for the group.

They've just arrived from Guatemala.

他们刚从危地马拉抵达。

Chris asks the men where they were going.

克里斯问他们要去哪里。

[SPEAKING SPANISH] Older Man [SPEAKING SPANISH]

[说西班牙语] 老人 [说西班牙语]

Atlanta?

亚特兰大？

Stephanie Foo Chris says, I'm Border Patrol.

斯蒂芬妮·福·克里斯说，我是边境巡逻队。

[SPEAKING SPANISH] Older Man Ah, Border Patrol?

[说西班牙语] 老男人啊，边境巡逻队？

Si.

斯。

Stephanie Foo Chris shows the man his badge, and the man looks relieved.

He sighs, rests back on his heels.

他叹了口气，靠在脚后跟上。

Chris asks him if he'd like some water.

克里斯问他是否想要一些水。

[SPEAKING SPANISH] Stephanie Foo The man giggles bashfully, showing off some missing teeth and says, that'd be nice.

[SPEAKING SPANISH] Stephanie Foo Then the Border Patrol rolls up and hops out of their vans, clipboards in hand.

They say hello and then hand the family plastic evidence bags, asking them to put their belongings inside them.

The whole confrontation is surprisingly non-confrontational.

The Border Patrol agents are joking around, asking kindly if everyone in their group made it.

边境巡逻人员开着玩笑，善意地询问他们小组中的每个人是否都成功了。

I expected the travelers to look weary and dusty from a long trek, but the girl is wearing these silver rhinestone-covered sandals with pink socks underneath.

Her socks are clean.

她的袜子很干净。

Just on the other side of the border is Reynosa, a major Mexican city, and the man says they took a bus there.

So they probably just walked here from the nearest stop.

I asked the girl if she's OK.

我问那个女孩她还好吗？

She smiles at me and says she is.

她对我微笑说她是。

She looks nervous, but not afraid.

她看起来很紧张，但并不害怕。

I ask her why she's crossing.

我问她为什么要穿越。

Her brother answers for her.

她的哥哥替她回答。

[SPEAKING SPANISH] Stephanie Foo He's saying that the gangs in Guatemala wanted his sister to join and because of that she felt her life was threatened.

Bingo.

宾果游戏。

This group is seeking asylum, which is why they were so glad to see Chris.

这群人正在寻求庇护，这就是为什么他们很高兴见到克里斯。

Before they send migrants over, coyotes tell them to look for the Border Patrol.

In the last few years, there's been a big increase in people fleeing from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras, seeking asylum, mostly from gang violence.

It shot up from around 8,000 adults in 2012 to at least 68,000 in 2016.

Chris believes that a lot of these migrants have been handed a script by coyotes who tell them to say what this group said, that the girl would be killed if she went back home.

Those are the magic words, and they work to get her entry into the country.

这些都是神奇的话语，它们努力让她进入这个国家。

And this is the part of the job that bugs Chris.

这就是工作中令克里斯烦恼的部分。

It means he isn't doing what he signed up to do-- protect the border.

In a sense, yeah.

从某种意义上说，是的。

We're a welcoming committee.

我们是一个欢迎委员会。

That must be frustrating.

这一定很令人沮丧。

Chris Cabrera Yeah.

克里斯·卡布雷拉是的。

You're figuring, what's my job come to?

你在想，我的工作是做什么的？

I'm releasing 80% of the people that are coming through.

Not releasing right away.

不马上释放。

There is a process.

有一个过程。

Some will be detained for weeks or longer, vetted in various ways.

But the reality of the situation is you can only get asylum for a few very specific reasons.

You have to be persecuted for your race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

Most of these Central Americans probably don't qualify.

Over the last five years, 80% have been rejected and deported after their hearings.

So the girl who said the gangs were after her, she probably wouldn't get asylum.

所以那个说帮派在追捕她的女孩，她很可能不会获得庇护。

But she is entitled to a hearing to see.

但她有权参加听证会。

So she'll be taken to a detention center, processed, and eventually released.

She'll be assigned a court date, but because the system is so backed up, that date can be more than six years from now.

And during that time, Chris says, she and the others can disappear into America, get work permits.

The kids will enter school.

孩子们将入学。

They'll start a life.

他们将开始新的生活。

Lots of people don't show up for their court date.

They join the 11 million undocumented people living in this country.

It's catch and release, Chris says.

克里斯说，这就是捕捉和释放。

He and I and another border agent watch the four of them get into the van to be taken away.

So how long will it take for them to get to Atlanta?

那么他们需要多长时间才能到达亚特兰大呢？

They'll be in custody, what?

他们会被拘留，什么？

24, or-- I'm sorry--

24、或者——对不起——

72 Hours.

72小时。

Chris Cabrera 72.

克里斯·卡布雷拉 72.

And then they'll hit the bus station.

然后他们就会去公交车站。

By this time next week, they'll probably be enrolled in school somewhere.

The way Chris sees it, while agents are tied up with asylum seekers, there are all these other people coming over the border that they don't have time to chase-- a lot of Mexicans and other people who aren't claiming asylum.

And then there are the straight-up criminals trying to cross the border.

The Mexican cartels smuggle drugs and guns.

墨西哥贩毒集团走私毒品和枪支。

I mean, I want to get back to doing what we do and chasing and catching the bad guys, the ones that are trying to do harm to our country or bring drugs and put them on our streets.

That's the ones we want to be going after.

这就是我们想要追求的目标。

That's the ones we want to be stopping.

这就是我们想要阻止的。

But instead, you're like-- Chris Cabrera Making bologna sandwiches.

但相反，你就像——克里斯·卡布雷拉（Chris Cabrera）制作博洛尼亚三明治。

Granted, it's a necessary job, but I'm sure you can train somebody to do that for a lot less than what you're paying us.

It's not like President Obama has changed the rules to allow in a flood of asylum seekers.

Those rules have been the same for years.

这些规则多年来一直是一样的。

But Chris believes Obama's been too forgiving with undocumented immigrants in general-- not just at the border, but also the ones who are already living in our country.

His administration issued all sorts of guidelines saying immigration officers shouldn't go after pregnant women, seriously mentally ill people, high school or college students.

他的政府发布了各种指导方针，称移民官员不应该追踪孕妇、严重精神病患者、高中生或大学生。

In 2012, Obama created DACA, which of course benefited undocumented kids who came to the US.

2012年，奥巴马创建了DACA，这当然让来到美国的无证儿童受益。

And in 2014, he pushed for DAPA, which would have allowed undocumented parents to stay in the country if their kids were legal residents.

2014 年，他推动了 DAPA，该法案允许无证父母在孩子是合法居民的情况下留在该国。

To Chris, all these policies send a message to Central Americans.

对克里斯来说，所有这些政策都向中美洲人传递了一个信息。

Come to the United States.

来美国吧。

Walk across the border.

步行越过边境。

It's fine.

没关系。

Any time you're relaxing the rules, relaxing the laws, it causes some type of surge.

任何时候你放松规则、放松法律，都会引起某种形式的激增。

They know that we're releasing people.

他们知道我们正在释放人员。

They know that.

他们知道这一点。

They know the system is flawed.

他们知道这个系统是有缺陷的。

People started letting their relatives know back home, hey, I came through.

人们开始让他们的亲戚知道，嘿，我挺过来了。

I said this.

我这么说。

They let me through.

他们让我过去了。

So more people kept coming.

于是越来越多的人不断涌来。

Chris and the other guys from his union have complained about all of the problems they're facing to their bosses.

克里斯和工会的其他人向老板抱怨了他们面临的所有问题。

They've testified at Senate hearings.

他们在参议院听证会上作证。

Nothing ever changed.

一切都没有改变。

So imagine you're Chris, feeling ignored, and one day you turn on the television and the border is the centerpiece of a presidential campaign.

所以想象一下，你是克里斯，感觉自己被忽视了，有一天你打开电视，边境成为总统竞选的核心内容。

Build the wall!

筑墙！

Build the wall!

筑墙！

Build the wall!

筑墙！

It was interesting.

这很有趣。

Granted, I think that's kind of like a symbolic thing-- "build the wall" that they chant.

诚然，我认为这有点像象征性的事情——他们高呼“建造隔离墙”。

Nobody knows what's going to happen with the wall, but just for the fact that we have that support nationally as far as Border Patrol agents--

没有人知道隔离墙会发生什么，但事实是我们在全国范围内得到了边境巡逻人员的支持——

Oh, you didn't see it as like, I'm stoked about the wall.

哦，你没看到，我对这堵墙感到很兴奋。

You were like, oh, look at all of those people who support me.

你就像，哦，看看所有那些支持我的人。

Yeah.

是的。

I think they're realizing that what we have is a real job and it's a difficult job, and we're actually on their radar.

我认为他们意识到我们所做的是一份真正的工作，而且是一项困难的工作，而且我们实际上在他们的雷达范围内。

Chris doesn't even think a continuous wall is practical.

克里斯甚至认为连续墙并不实用。

There are walls and fences along 704 miles of the border, including along parts of the Rio Grande right near here, and, Chris says, people find a way around them.

沿着 704 英里的边界，包括这里附近的格兰德河部分地区，都设有围墙和栅栏，克里斯说，人们找到了绕过它们的方法。

We put an 18-foot wall up.

我们筑起一堵 18 英尺高的墙。

The next day, we had 19-foot ladders all over the place.

第二天，我们到处都有19英尺高的梯子。

It got so bad.

情况变得如此糟糕。

There were just ladders everywhere-- behind the station, stacked up as high as you can reach.

车站后面到处都是梯子，梯子堆得尽可能高。

After a month, they said stop bringing the damn ladders in.

一个月后，他们说不要再把那些该死的梯子搬进来了。

The Border Patrol felt like Trump was speaking directly to them.

边境巡逻队感觉特朗普是在直接对他们说话。

Actually, he did speak directly to them.

事实上，他确实直接跟他们说话了。

Our first guest is a best-selling author, Emmy-nominated television star, business mogul, and real estate tycoon.

我们的第一位嘉宾是畅销书作家、艾美奖提名电视明星、商业大亨和房地产大亨。

He is also the presumptive Republican nominee for President of the United States.

他也是美国总统的共和党推定候选人。

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Donald J.

女士们、先生们，唐纳德·J.

Trump.

特朗普。

Welcome to The Green Line, Mr. Trump.

欢迎来到绿线，特朗普先生。

Well, thank you very much.

嗯，非常感谢。

I appreciate it.

我很感激。

This is The Green Line.

这是绿线。

It's a podcast that's hosted by a bunch of Border Patrol agents, including Chris.

这是一个由包括克里斯在内的一群边境巡逻人员主持的播客。

All of them are union reps or officials in the union.

他们都是工会代表或工会官员。

Border Patrol agent Shawn Moran and Thane Gallagher were interviewing Trump, and he was telling them things they'd never heard another presidential candidate say before.

边境巡逻人员肖恩·莫兰和塞恩·加拉格尔正在采访特朗普，特朗普告诉他们一些他们以前从未听过其他总统候选人说过的话。

When I'm-- if I'm elected, I have to say, because I have to be modest, but if and when I'm elected, I'm going to be relying very much on the professionalism of the Border Patrol to tell us what to do.

当我——如果我当选时，我不得不说，因为我必须保持谦虚，但如果我当选，我将非常依赖边境巡逻队的专业精神来告诉我们该做什么。

They know better than anybody.

他们比任何人都清楚。

They know better than any consultant you can hire.

他们比您雇佣的任何顾问都更了解。

We'll be meeting and we'll be talking, but I just want to tell you I have you 100% in my mind, and I have your back.

我们会见面，我们会说话，但我只是想告诉你，我百分百地在想你，我会支持你。

Believe me.

相信我。

So I have no doubt that you folks are going to be able to do a fantastic job.

所以我毫不怀疑你们一定能够做得非常出色。

I hope you agree with me.

我希望你同意我的观点。

Do you agree with me on that?

你同意我的观点吗？

Chris wasn't hosting that day.

那天克里斯没有主持。

He was listening at home.

他在家里听着。

He thought the two hosts that were handling it sounded a little giddy.

他觉得处理这件事的两位主持人听起来有点头晕。

Like two little star-struck girls just met Justin Bieber or something.

就像两个追星的小女孩刚刚认识贾斯汀·比伯什么的。

Here you have the potential next leader of the free world coming on your show and talking to you-- and on top of that, he's Donald Trump.

自由世界的下一任潜在领导人将出现在您的节目中并与您交谈——最重要的是，他就是唐纳德·特朗普。

He's Donald Trump.

他是唐纳德·特朗普。

He's a billionaire.

他是亿万富翁。

That's big stuff.

那可是大事啊。

Trump even met up with the Border Patrol guys, in person, not on the air, a few times during his campaign, including with Art Del Cueto, one of the other hosts of the show.

特朗普甚至在竞选期间多次亲自会见边境巡逻人员，而不是在电视上，其中包括该节目的其他主持人之一阿特·德尔·奎托(Art Del Cueto)。

Here's Art.

这是艺术。

Doing this for quite some time, we run into a lot of people when we explain what we do and explain all the issues that we have, and a lot of time these individuals, it almost seems like they're off in another voyage waiting to ask the next question.

这样做了相当长一段时间，当我们解释我们所做的事情并解释我们遇到的所有问题时，我们遇到了很多人，很多时候这些人似乎正在另一次航行中等待提出下一个问题。

But every time that we've sat down and spoken to Mr. Trump, every time he would sit there, listen to our answers, and thoroughly ask follow-up questions.

但每次我们坐下来与特朗普先生交谈时，每次他都会坐在那里，听我们的回答，并彻底询问后续问题。

So you could tell he's really in tune and he really is paying attention.

所以你可以看出他真的很配合并且他真的很专注。

On election night, a bunch of the Border Patrol union guys were in New York at Trump's victory party.

选举之夜，一群边境巡逻队工会成员在纽约参加特朗普的胜利派对。

Here's Art.

这是艺术。

Even on his acceptance speech-- when he was done with his acceptance speech, he walked off the stage and he does his rounds of shaking people's hands and high-fiving, but he took the time to stop where I'm particularly standing.

即使在他的获奖感言上——当他完成获奖感言后，他走下舞台，与人们握手和击掌，但他花时间在我特别站的地方停下来。

He looked at me, pointed, he right away recognized who I was, and he said, here are my guys.

他看着我，指着我，他立刻认出了我是谁，然后他说，这是我的人。

These are my guys.

这些是我的人。

He came over.

他过来了。

He shook our hands.

他与我们握手。

And he said, get ready to go to work.

他说，准备去上班吧。

Chris was there that night, too.

那天晚上克里斯也在那里。

Unlike Art, that was the first time he'd met Donald Trump.

与阿特不同的是，那是他第一次见到唐纳德·特朗普。

I don't get too bent out of shape.

我不会太弯曲变形。

I just kind of, hey, how you doing?

我只是想，嘿，你好吗？

Shake a hand.

握一握。

You don't seem that excited about shaking the president's hand.

你似乎对与总统握手并不那么兴奋。

Yeah, I know.

是的，我知道。

I mean, he's the president.

我的意思是，他是总统。

I'm sure I'll probably get to meet him again.

我确信我可能会再次见到他。

Right.

正确的。

He's not that excited because, as far as Chris is concerned, that was just their first hello.

他并没有那么兴奋，因为对克里斯来说，这只是他们的第一次打招呼。

He knows that he, or his guys anyway, will be sitting down with Trump and talking very soon.

他知道他或他的手下很快就会与特朗普坐下来交谈。

Stephanie Foo is one of the producers of our program.

Stephanie Foo 是我们节目的制作人之一。

Coming up, civil servants who do not like President Trump tell us stuff they are not telling their new Republican bosses about how they might quietly try to subvert his goals from inside the bureaucracy.

接下来，不喜欢特朗普总统的公务员告诉我们，他们不会告诉新任共和党老板，他们可能会悄悄地试图从官僚机构内部颠覆他的目标。

That's when we come back from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.

那时我们从芝加哥公共广播电台回来，我们的节目仍在继续。

It's This American Life.

这就是美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Today's program, "The Revolution Begins at Noon," stories for the inauguration of Donald Trump as president.

今天的节目“革命从中午开始”讲述唐纳德·特朗普就任总统的故事。

We've arrived at Act Four of our show.

我们已经到了演出的第四幕了。

Act Four, You're Still Fired.

第四幕，你还是被解雇了。

It seems like so many people of the country have extreme feelings about this inauguration day.

看来这个国家的很多人都对这个就职日怀有极端的感情。

They're either incredibly excited or incredibly fearful about this new president.

他们对这位新总统要么非常兴奋，要么非常恐惧。

But one place that we found lots of people sort of in the middle was Indiana at the company that makes Carrier air conditioners and furnaces.

但我们发现很多人都处于中间位置，那就是印第安纳州的一家生产开利空调和炉子的公司。

You may remember the first campaign promise that President Trump fulfilled-- he did it even before he took office-- is when he convinced that company that makes Carrier air conditioners and furnaces from moving hundreds of jobs to Mexico.

你可能还记得特朗普总统兑现的第一个竞选承诺——他甚至在上任之前就做到了——是他说服制造开利空调和炉子的公司将数百个工作岗位转移到墨西哥。

Sam Black went and checked in with the workers who make those products and found lots of people in the middle and, interestingly, even among the people whose jobs were not saved, lots were still feeling hopeful about Donald Trump.

萨姆·布莱克(Sam Black)去询问了生产这些产品的工人，发现很多人处于中间，有趣的是，即使在那些工作没有保住的人中，很多人仍然对唐纳德·特朗普(Donald Trump)抱有希望。

Here's Sam.

这是萨姆。

The workers I met who voted for Trump, whether their jobs were saved or not, most of them were pretty lukewarm about the new president.

我遇到的投票支持特朗普的工人，无论他们的工作是否保住，他们中的大多数人对这位新总统都相当冷淡。

Not hardcore "make America great again" types.

不是铁杆“让美国再次伟大”类型。

One white man in his 50s told me that Trump's comments about women made him ashamed to be a man, but he voted for him anyway.

一位 50 多岁的白人告诉我，特朗普对女性的评论让他作为一个男人感到羞耻，但他还是投票给了他。

A black guy in his 30s said he'd walked into the voting booth planning to go for Clinton, put his pen to her name, but then thought he couldn't trust her and changed to Trump.

一名30多岁的黑人表示，他走进投票站本来打算投克林顿，用笔写下她的名字，但后来认为自己不能信任她，于是改写了特朗普。

Then there was Georgina.

然后是乔治娜。

She says she was initially for Bernie Sanders all the way, but in November she went for Trump.

她说，她最初一直支持伯尼·桑德斯，但在 11 月她转而支持特朗普。

Kinda.

有点。

Sam Black Georgina's been working at the same factory for 25 years.

Sam Black Georgina 在同一家工厂工作了 25 年。

She makes just over $16 an hour plus benefits, enough to live a decent life in the small town of Huntington, where her company, UTEC, is the largest employer.

她每小时的收入略高于 16 美元，加上福利，足以在亨廷顿小镇过上体面的生活，她的公司 UTEC 是当地最大的雇主。

She's 48, raised three kids, and has 10 grandkids.

她今年 48 岁，养育了 3 个孩子，还有 10 个孙子孙女。

Her employer, UTEC, is the sister company to Carrier.

她的雇主 UTEC 是开利的姐妹公司。

It makes the circuit boards that go into Carrier air conditioners and furnaces.

它生产用于开利空调和熔炉的电路板。

She really likes her job.

她真的很喜欢她的工作。

As far as factories go, that is the easiest work that you will ever find.

就工厂而言，这是您能找到的最简单的工作。

Ever.

曾经。

I mean, it's air conditioned and it's got good heat.

我的意思是，它有空调并且有很好的热量。

It's clean.

很干净。

You can wear white to work and not worry about it.

你可以穿白色上班，不用担心。

Carrier became part of the presidential campaign about a year ago when the company announced it was closing its Indianapolis plant.

大约一年前，开利公司宣布关闭其印第安纳波利斯工厂，成为总统竞选的一部分。

That same morning, UTEC, where Georgina works, called all the workers into the cafeteria.

当天早上，乔治娜工作的 UTEC 召集所有工人到自助餐厅。

Same deal.

同样的交易。

700 people would lose their jobs.

700人将失去工作。

It was devastating.

这是毁灭性的。

People were crying.

人们在哭泣。

Everybody was just stunned and very, very quiet.

每个人都惊呆了，而且非常非常安静。

And once he said that, honestly, I don't know what was said after that.

一旦他这么说，老实说，我不知道之后又说了些什么。

I have no idea because so many things were racing through my head.

我不知道，因为很多事情在我脑海中闪过。

10 months later, after Donald Trump won the election-- you may have seen this-- he went to the Carrier plant in Indianapolis to announce he'd made a deal.

10 个月后，唐纳德·特朗普赢得大选后（您可能已经看到了这一点），他前往印第安纳波利斯的开利工厂宣布他已达成协议。

I want to thank Greg Hayes of United Technologies because when I called him, he was right there.

我要感谢联合技术公司的格雷格·海耶斯，因为当我打电话给他时，他就在那里。

I waited to see how many jobs were saved, whose jobs were saved.

我等着看有多少工作岗位被保住了，谁的工作岗位被保住了。

I got excited, and I was sitting on pins and needles.

我很兴奋，如坐针毡。

--is it's so great.

——真是太棒了。

So many people in that big, beautiful plant behind us, they're so happy.

我们身后那座又大又漂亮的工厂里有很多人，他们很高兴。

They're going to have a great Christmas.

他们将会度过一个愉快的圣诞节。

Here was Trump's bargain.

这是特朗普的讨价还价。

In exchange for a $7 million tax break, Carrier would keep about 800 jobs in Indianapolis.

作为 700 万美元税收减免的交换，开利将保留印第安纳波利斯约 800 个工作岗位。

More than 1,300 jobs would still go to Mexico, including Georgina's.

超过 1,300 个工作岗位仍将流向墨西哥，其中包括乔治娜的工作岗位。

And when I realized, yeah, then I got a little upset and then disappointment.

当我意识到，是的，然后我有点沮丧，然后失望。

These companies aren't going to be leaving anymore.

这些公司不会再离开了。

They're not going to be taking people's hearts out.

他们不会夺走人们的心。

That was a little depressing.

那就有点郁闷了。

It was hard to watch.

很难看。

Yeah, I was sad.

是的，我很伤心。

Georgina says that what bothered her was that Trump acted like he accomplished more than he did.

乔治娜说，令她困扰的是特朗普表现得好像他所做的事情比他实际做的还要多。

And it felt like it was all about him, a publicity stunt, a victory lap at her expense.

感觉这一切都是关于他的，一个宣传噱头，一个以她为代价的胜利圈。

He could have at least mentioned the workers he didn't help.

他至少可以提及他没有帮助的工人。

Acknowledge us-- not just us, but the ones at Indy that you didn't save, and these other factories that are all shutting down, not just us.

感谢我们——不仅是我们，还有那些你们没有拯救的印地工厂，以及其他所有正在关闭的工厂，而不仅仅是我们。

Acknowledge them.

承认他们。

It would have.

本来会有的。

I don't think that I would have thought that it was just for good press then.

我不认为我当时会认为这只是为了获得良好的新闻报道。

I would think, he's really going to try.

我想，他真的会尝试。

He's going to do the best he can for everybody.

他会尽他所能为每个人做到最好。

Georgina told me she thinks Trump's deal mostly benefited the company, which pocketed millions and still laid off 1,300 people.

乔治娜告诉我，她认为特朗普的交易主要使该公司受益，该公司赚了数百万美元，但仍然解雇了 1,300 人。

Another worker put it this way.

另一位工人是这样说的。

Imagine getting fired by a company with billion-dollar profits and then finding out that your tax dollars are picking up their tab.

想象一下，被一家利润数十亿美元的公司解雇，然后发现你的税款正在承担他们的账单。

It's like you're subsidizing your own layoff.

这就像你在补贴自己的裁员一样。

But despite all this, Georgina still holds out hope for the new president.

但尽管如此，乔治娜仍然对新总统抱有希望。

In his campaign, Donald Trump talked about putting 35% tariffs on companies that send jobs offshore.

唐纳德·特朗普在竞选中谈到对将工作岗位转移到海外的公司征收 35% 的关税。

Georgina hopes that was more than just a campaign promise.

乔治娜希望这不仅仅是一个竞选承诺。

And in fact, after she and I talked, Trump brought it up at his first press conference.

事实上，在她和我交谈后，特朗普在他的第一次新闻发布会上提出了这个问题。

The word is now out that when you want to move your plant to Mexico or some other place and you want to fire all of your workers from Michigan and Ohio and all these places that I won for good reason, it's not going to happen that way anymore.

现在有消息称，当你想把工厂搬到墨西哥或其他地方，并且想解雇来自密歇根州和俄亥俄州以及我有充分理由赢得的所有这些地方的所有工人时，这种情况不会再发生了。

You're going to pay a very large border tax.

你将要缴纳非常大的边境税。

A major border tax on these companies that are leaving and getting away with murder.

对那些离开并逃脱谋杀罪的公司征收主要边境税。

I think that Trump really does want to help keep the jobs in the US.

我认为特朗普确实想帮助保留美国的就业机会。

And I don't know yet.

我还不知道。

He might be the best president we've ever had.

他可能是我们有史以来最好的总统。

I have no idea.

我不知道。

Georgina doesn't remember any other presidential candidate even bothering to talk about workers like her, except Bernie Sanders.

除了伯尼·桑德斯之外，乔治娜不记得有任何其他总统候选人愿意谈论像她这样的工人。

On inauguration day, Georgina was at work.

就职典礼当天，乔治娜正在工作。

She could be laid off as early as April.

她最早可能在四月份被解雇。

Her plan?

她的计划？

Go to night school, get trained for administrative work in a hospital, making less than she does now.

去夜校，接受医院行政工作的培训，赚的钱比现在少。

How do you expect you'll feel watching him being inaugurated as president?

您预计看到他就任总统会有什么感觉？

Hopeful, because I want him to prove me wrong, that he is going to try and save these other people's jobs.

我满怀希望，因为我希望他能证明我是错的，他会尽力挽救其他人的工作。

Not ours.

不是我们的。

I know that's not going to happen, but there's other places that are talking about leaving and maybe he can save those.

我知道这不会发生，但还有其他地方正在谈论离开，也许他可以拯救那些地方。

But the truth is, Georgina says she rarely thinks about the man she helped elect.

但事实是，乔治娜说她很少想到她帮助选举的那个人。

Maybe once a week when someone at work jokes about his latest tweet.

也许每周一次，工作中有人拿他最新的推文开玩笑。

Sam Black.

萨姆·布莱克.

He's a documentary filmmaker in New York.

他是纽约的一名纪录片制片人。

Act Five, Debate is Not Allowed During a Vote.

第五幕，投票期间不允许辩论。

So for the Democrats, what is life about to look like without control of the White House, House, or Senate?

那么对于民主党人来说，如果没有白宫、众议院或参议院的控制权，生活会是什么样子呢？

Well, one little preview happened earlier this month at around 1:00 in the morning on the Senate floor.

好吧，本月早些时候凌晨 1:00 左右，在参议院进行了一次小小的预演。

It was the vote that would start the process of dismantling Obamacare.

正是这次投票开启了废除奥巴马医改的进程。

Democrats knew they would lose, but for the next few years things are going to happen that they do not like and are powerless to stop.

民主党人知道他们会失败，但在接下来的几年里，他们不喜欢而且无力阻止的事情将会发生。

All they could do that night was try to make a statement while voting no, though the other side controls even how much of a statement they get to make.

那天晚上他们所能做的就是在投反对票的同时尝试发表声明，尽管另一方甚至控制着他们发表声明的多少。

Here's an excerpt of how the vote went down.

以下是投票结果的摘录。

Mrs. Gillibrand.

吉利布兰德夫人。

Kirsten Gillibrand I vote no on behalf of all the women who need health--

克尔斯滕·吉利布兰德（Kirsten Gillibrand）我代表所有需要健康的女性投反对票——

Senator is not exempt.

参议员也不例外。

Debate is not allowed during the vote.

投票期间不允许辩论。

I vote no on behalf of people who need mental health care.

我代表需要心理健康护理的人投反对票。

Mr. Schatz, no. Presiding Officer Gentleman from Illinois.

沙茨先生，不。来自伊利诺伊州的主持官员绅士。

On behalf of the Downstate hospitals of Illinois, I vote--

我代表伊利诺伊州南部医院投票——

Because there is no plan in the alternative--

因为没有替代方案——

Debate is not allowed-- Amy Klobuchar --I vote no.

不允许辩论——Amy Klobuchar——我投反对票。

--will be in order.

——会井然有序。

Clerk Ms. Klobuchar, no.

职员 Klobuchar 女士，没有。

[INAUDIBLE] order.

[听不清]命令。

Debate is not in order during a vote.

投票期间辩论不按顺序进行。

Mr. Kaine.

凯恩先生。

Tim Kaine When I was sick, you visited me--

蒂姆·凯恩当我生病时，你来看望了我——

Debate is not allowed during a vote.

投票期间不允许辩论。

The Senate will be in order.

参议院将保持秩序。

Mr. Kaine, no. Ms. Heitkamp.

凯恩先生，不。海特坎普女士。

Heidi Heitkamp On behalf of the thousands of--

海蒂·海特坎普 (Heidi Heitkamp) 代表成千上万的人——

Senator will suspend.

参议员将暂停职务。

Heidi Heitkamp --people who receive health care in my state and rural hospital--

海蒂·海特坎普——在我所在的州和乡村医院接受医疗保健的人们——

Debate is not allowed.

不允许辩论。

Heidi Heitkamp --who know not how they're going to get her health care--

海蒂·海特坎普——谁不知道如何获得她的医疗保健——

Senator will suspend.

参议员将暂停职务。

Heidi Heitkamp --if this passes without--

海蒂·海特坎普——如果这一切都过去了——

Senator will suspend.

参议员将暂停职务。

Clerk Ms. Heitkamp, no.

职员 Heitkamp 女士，没有。

Is there any senator in the debate-- in the chamber that wishes to change their vote or vote?

辩论中——众议院中是否有参议员希望改变他们的选票或投票？

On this vote, the yeas are 51.

此次投票，赞成票数为 51 票。

The nays are 48.

反对者是 48 人。

The concurrent resolution is agreed to.

同意同时决议。

Act Six, Office Climate and Climate Office.

第六幕，办公室气候和气候办公室。

So any new president gets to appoint over 4,000 people to various positions, but most of the people in those big buildings in Washington DC are not those 4,000 people.

因此，任何新总统都可以任命超过 4,000 人担任各种职务，但华盛顿特区那些大建筑中的大多数人都不是那 4,000 人。

They are civil servants.

他们是公务员。

Most of them stay in their jobs from one administration to the next, whoever's in power.

无论谁掌权，他们中的大多数人从一届政府到下一届政府都坚守岗位。

Not all of them.

不是全部。

Our producer David Kestenbaum spoke with a couple of civil servants in DC who were deciding whether to stick around.

我们的制片人大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆与华盛顿特区的几位公务员进行了交谈，他们正在决定是否留下来。

Laura works at the Department of Energy, one of the agencies that seems like it might change dramatically under the new president.

劳拉在能源部工作，该机构是新总统领导下可能发生巨大变化的机构之一。

She asked us not to use her real name and to have an actor do her voice, even though she knows that's probably overkill.

她要求我们不要使用她的真名，并让演员为她配音，尽管她知道这可能有点过分了。

She says as a civil servant you're supposed to keep your politics and your job separate.

她说，作为一名公务员，你应该将政治和工作分开。

Your job is to enact the policies of whoever's in power, Democrat or Republican.

你的工作是制定执政者的政策，无论是民主党还是共和党。

But the first day back after the election it was hard to keep her politics to herself.

但选举后的第一天，她很难将自己的政治观点保密。

I've never cried at work before.

我以前从未在工作中哭过。

When you cry, you can't hide the fact afterwards-- at least for me, my face gets really red.

当你哭的时候，你无法掩盖这个事实——至少对我来说，我的脸会变得很红。

So I had a meeting or whatever.

所以我开了一个会议或者其他什么。

I just had to be like, sorry, I just had a moment.

我只能说，抱歉，我只是有一会儿。

And then everybody else was like, yeah, we did, too.

然后其他人都说，是的，我们也这么做了。

It's not just you.

不只是你。

I don't want to get into too much detail, but your job is climate change-related?

我不想透露太多细节，但你的工作与气候变化有关？

Yes.

是的。

David Kestenbaum How many people at DoE do you think are unconvinced that humans are causing global warming?

David Kestenbaum 您认为能源部有多少人不相信人类正在造成全球变暖？

I don't know anyone at DoE who thinks that.

我不知道能源部有谁这么认为。

It looked like that number would rise by at least one.

看起来这个数字至少会增加一。

Rick Perry, Trump's pick to run the DoE, had written in his own book that he thought the science showing humans were contributing to climate change was a, quote, "contrived phony mess."

特朗普挑选的美国能源部负责人里克·佩里在自己的书中写道，他认为表明人类对气候变化负有责任的科学是“人为的虚假混乱”。

As you may have heard, Trump's team sent a list of questions to the DoE asking, among other things, the names of people who had attended UN climate change meetings.

正如您可能听说的那样，特朗普的团队向美国能源部发送了一系列问题，其中包括参加联合国气候变化会议的人员姓名。

Democrats saw it as a kind of witch hunt.

民主党人将其视为一种政治迫害。

Rick Perry now says his views on climate change have changed and that he didn't approve of the questionnaire.

里克·佩里现在表示，他对气候变化的看法已经改变，并且他不赞成这份调查问卷。

But after the election, Laura spent a lot of time wondering, should I stay in this job?

但选举后，劳拉花了很多时间思考，我是否应该留在这份工作？

What would it be like?

会是什么样子呢？

What if the new bosses ask me to do something I just think is wrong?

如果新老板要求我做一些我认为错误的事情怎么办？

Like what if there were some report or something and someone asked you to take out all the references to climate change?

比如，如果有一些报告或其他东西，有人要求你删除所有有关气候变化的内容，该怎么办？

Well, we already did that.

嗯，我们已经这么做了。

David Kestenbaum You already did that?

David Kestenbaum 你已经这么做了？

Yeah, we have.

是的，我们有。

David Kestenbaum Laura says she and a bunch of other people have been going through all their internal documents that describe ongoing projects and just scrubbing them, deleting the parts where it says, "and here's how this will help us combat climate change." Laura didn't want to talk specifics, but you could imagine a satellite for monitoring climate change and saying, think of it as a weather satellite instead.

大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆·劳拉 (David Kestenbaum Laura) 表示，她和其他一些人已经仔细阅读了所有描述正在进行的项目的内部文件，并对其进行了清理，删除了其中写着“这将如何帮助我们应对气候变化”的部分。劳拉不想谈论具体细节，但你可以想象一颗用于监测气候变化的卫星，然后说，把它想象成一颗气象卫星。

This renewable energy program?

这个可再生能源计划？

Now it's a jobs program.

现在这是一个就业计划。

Most federal projects have a bunch of reasons for their existence.

大多数联邦项目的存在都有很多原因。

Why draw attention to something by putting the words "climate change" in the description?

为什么要通过在描述中添加“气候变化”一词来引起人们的注意？

No. David Kestenbaum Because you thought, this is a way we can get by?

不。大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆因为你认为，这是我们可以度过的一种方式？

Yeah, exactly.

是的，完全正确。

That was my thought.

这就是我的想法。

As long as it's getting done, it doesn't matter what we call it.

只要它完成了，我们称之为什么并不重要。

Laura's entire time at the DoE has been under Obama.

劳拉在美国能源部的整个时间都是在奥巴马的领导下。

She's never been through a change of power before.

她以前从未经历过权力更迭。

That first day after the election, there was this big all-staff meeting at the DoE.

选举后的第一天，能源部举行了一次大型全体员工会议。

That made her feel a little better-- not because it was emotional, but because it wasn't.

这让她感觉好一点了——不是因为情绪激动，而是因为事实并非如此。

It was professional, just like, here's what happens next.

这很专业，就像接下来发生的事情一样。

I think what made it OK was it was very matter-of-fact.

我认为这件事之所以顺利，是因为它非常实事求是。

Like, the transition team is going to come in in the next few days.

就像，过渡团队将在接下来的几天内介入。

They didn't.

他们没有。

They came in like several weeks later.

几周后他们进来了。

When the transition team did arrive at DoE, Laura went on what felt like a kid detective mission to try to see the invaders.

当过渡小组确实到达能源部时，劳拉继续执行一项感觉像是儿童侦探的任务，试图看到入侵者。

She knew they were on the fifth floor, so she went up there with a friend.

她知道他们在五楼，所以她和朋友一起去了那里。

They tried to play it cool, had to do a couple laps because they missed the room the first time.

他们试图表现得冷静，但不得不跑几圈，因为他们第一次错过了房间。

But there it was.

但它就在那里。

It literally said on the door, "transition team." And I elbowed my friend, and she was like, I saw it.

门上字面意思是“过渡团队”。我用胳膊肘撞了我的朋友，她说，我看到了。

It wasn't like something was hidden or something, but I felt very like, oh, wow.

这并不是说有什么东西被隐藏了或者什么，但我感觉非常像，哦，哇。

There it is.

就在那里。

Somehow seeing the office make you feel more reassured?

不知怎的，看到办公室会让你感到更安心吗？

Yeah, because the name was on the door.

是啊，因为门上写着名字。

It's one of these things.

这是其中之一。

It's like, well, they're not trying to hide anything.

就好像，好吧，他们并不想隐藏任何事情。

They're just there doing their job.

他们只是在那里做他们的工作。

I talked to this other government worker who we'll call Karen.

我和另一位政府工作人员交谈过，我们称之为凯伦。

Karen's a relatively senior person.

凯伦是一个相对资深的人。

She served under a Democrat and a Republican.

她曾在民主党和共和党的领导下任职。

Karen says a bunch of younger coworkers have been coming into her office, closing the door, and saying, do you have a minute to talk?

凯伦说，一群年轻同事走进她的办公室，关上门，说，你有时间谈谈吗？

It's like she's become a therapist.

就好像她成了一名治疗师。

Some of the people are trying to figure out what to do-- stay or leave.

有些人正在试图弄清楚该怎么做——留下还是离开。

If you stay, at least you can try to steer things.

如果你留下来，至少你可以尝试掌控事情。

Or you can fight.

或者你可以战斗。

And by fight, I mean that in the most bureaucratic way possible.

我所说的战斗，是指以尽可能最官僚的方式。

Government moves very slowly, which is a pain when you're trying to get things done.

政府行动非常缓慢，当你试图把事情做好时，这是一个痛苦。

But if you're trying to stop something from happening, it can be used to your advantage.

但如果你试图阻止某件事发生，它可以为你带来优势。

Withholding information is one way you slow things down.

隐瞒信息是放慢速度的一种方式。

The bureaucracy is large.

官僚机构很大。

There's a lot of paperwork, a lot of steps, and people that have been in government for a long time understand all those steps really well.

有很多文书工作、很多步骤，而且在政府工作了很长时间的人非常了解所有这些步骤。

So some of those tactics may be used to make things go a lot slower.

因此，其中一些策略可能会被用来让事情进展得更慢。

One government worker told me he knew some people who were really good at this.

一位政府工作人员告诉我，他认识一些非常擅长这方面的人。

It's like the dark arts of civil service.

这就像公务员的黑暗艺术。

You can refer things to the general counsel for legal review.

您可以将事情提交给总法律顾问进行法律审查。

That takes time.

这需要时间。

You can also try to hide things.

你也可以尝试隐藏一些东西。

One relatively senior official who recently left government has been advising those who stayed behind to just lay low, keep any controversial stuff under the radar.

一位最近离开政府的相对高级官员一直建议那些留下来的人保持低调，不要关注任何有争议的事情。

Karen knows that trick.

凯伦知道这个伎俩。

It's not like you can come into the government and, with the click of a button, find everything you need to know on any topic we've worked on for the last 15 years.

你不可能进入政府，只需点击一个按钮，就可以找到你需要了解的关于我们过去 15 年研究的任何主题的所有信息。

So literally, there might be like programs or documents or things that are just so well hidden that they'd never find out about them?

那么从字面上看，可能有一些程序、文档或东西被隐藏得很好，以至于他们永远不会发现它们？

You could say that.

你可以这么说。

David Kestenbaum Are people talking about doing that kind of stuff?

David Kestenbaum 人们在谈论做那种事情吗？

I think people don't know yet how they will react because they are waiting to see if what they are predicting may happen does come to pass.

我认为人们还不知道他们会如何反应，因为他们正在等待，看看他们预测的事情是否会发生。

But if it does?

但如果是这样呢？

Karen There are definitely some career civil servants that will not ever give in, and I think there are definitely some career civil servants that will toe the line.

Karen 肯定有一些职业公务员是永远不会屈服的，我想肯定有一些职业公务员会听话。

But I think the people that know how the system works have used these tactics within many administrations.

但我认为了解该系统如何运作的人已经在许多政府中使用过这些策略。

Sounds kind of wrong.

听起来有点不对劲。

It doesn't seem like the right thing to do.

这似乎不是正确的做法。

I think when you've worked on something for a long time and you've devoted your entire career to it and you believe it is the right thing to do, people will do their jobs.

我认为，当你在某件事上工作了很长时间并且你将整个职业生涯都奉献给它并且你相信这是正确的事情时，人们就会做好他们的工作。

But when they think that what they are doing is harmful to citizens or the country in the long run, I think they will stand up for what they believe in the bureaucratic ways that they can.

但当他们认为自己所做的事情从长远来看对公民或国家有害时，我认为他们会尽其所能地以官僚方式坚持自己的信念。

Karen is not going to be doing any of that.

凯伦不会做这些事。

I imagine that's true of most people.

我想大多数人都是如此。

They'll either do their jobs like good civil servants or they'll just leave.

他们要么像优秀公务员一样做好自己的工作，要么就离开。

Karen is leaving.

凯伦要走了。

It didn't take her long to decide.

她没花多长时间就做出了决定。

She knew almost immediately, on election night.

在选举之夜，她几乎立刻就知道了。

I remember saying to a close friend, wow, I'll be departing from my job in January.

我记得对一位亲密的朋友说，哇，我将在一月份离职。

And I'm a career public servant.

我是一名职业公务员。

[SOBS] I'm sorry.

[抽泣] 对不起。

Laura, at the Department of Energy, took longer to make up her mind.

能源部的劳拉花了更长的时间才做出决定。

Senior people there-- Democrats-- were urging people to stay under Trump.

那里的高级人士——民主党人——敦促人们留在特朗普的领导下。

Don't leave, they said.

不要离开，他们说。

We need good people here.

我们这里需要好人。

If you leave, you don't know who will replace you.

如果你离开，你不知道谁会取代你。

And you don't know how bad it'll be.

而且你不知道情况会有多糟糕。

Maybe it'll be OK.

也许会没事的。

It was that questionnaire that sealed things for her, the one that made the news and asked for the names of people who had attended UN climate change talks.

正是这份调查问卷为她锁定了一切，这份调查问卷成为了新闻，并询问了参加联合国气候变化谈判的人员的姓名。

Laura wasn't in the office when the news broke.

消息传出时，劳拉不在办公室。

She heard about it by email from a friend in another part of government.

她通过政府另一部门的一位朋友的电子邮件得知了此事。

Well, she was like, this doesn't look good, basically.

嗯，她说，这看起来不太好，基本上。

And I was like, on the contrary, this is kind of funny.

相反，我觉得这有点有趣。

It seemed like such an amateur move.

这看起来像是一个业余的举动。

The DoE, by the way, refused to provide any names.

顺便说一句，美国能源部拒绝提供任何名字。

That just seemed like a scare tactic to me, and I didn't want to reward that sort of brazen attempt to get people to leave the agency.

对我来说，这似乎是一种恐吓策略，我不想奖励这种让人们离开该机构的厚颜无耻的尝试。

I'm not leaving.

我不会离开。

Are you thinking like, I can last four years?

你是不是在想，我能坚持四年吗？

Could you last eight?

你能坚持八个吗？

Laura I probably wouldn't stay for eight, no.

劳拉我可能不会呆八天，不。

What are you doing for the inauguration?

就职典礼你要做什么？

Probably hanging out with my friends in a bar.

可能是和朋友在酒吧里闲逛。

Watching it or avoiding it?

观察还是回避？

Laura Not watching it.

劳拉没看。

I've already seen enough of him to last a lifetime.

我已经见够他了，足以让我受益终生。

Well, she's going to be seeing more of him, as she knows.

好吧，她知道，她会更多地见到他。

We have these pictures hanging up in every office of the president, the vice president, the secretary of energy, and they're all going to change.

我们在总统、副总统、能源部长的每个办公室里都挂着这些照片，它们都会改变。

You're going to have a picture of Donald Trump in your office?

你会在你的办公室里放一张唐纳德·特朗普的照片吗？

Yes.

是的。

And Mike Pence and Rick Perry and whoever the undersecretary is.

还有迈克·彭斯（Mike Pence）和里克·佩里（Rick Perry）以及副部长是谁。

How do you feel about that?

你对此有何感想？

Laura I don't know.

劳拉我不知道。

At least-- I mean, like-- that's like-- [SIGHS] it's just a reminder of the world we live in every day.

至少——我的意思是，就像——就像——[叹息]这只是提醒我们每天生活的世界。

I think you can bury your head a little bit and try to keep doing what you're doing, but there are people you answer to and that picture makes you remember who they are.

我认为你可以埋下你的头，尝试继续做你正在做的事情，但有些人是你需要回答的，那张照片让你记住他们是谁。

We looked into it.

我们对此进行了调查。

The portraits of Obama and his officials were scheduled to be removed on Friday at noon, the exact time Donald Trump took the oath of office.

奥巴马及其官员的肖像定于周五中午被移除，这正是唐纳德·特朗普宣誓就职的时间。

We were told the pictures would be disposed of respectfully.

我们被告知这些照片将被妥善处理。

In my mind, there's a big dumpster somewhere with all of the photos in it, like an actual dustbin of history.

在我的脑海里，某个地方有一个大垃圾箱，里面装满了所有照片，就像一个真正的历史垃圾箱。

The frames do get saved and reused for the new portraits.

这些框架确实会被保存并重新用于新的肖像。

They're going to be going up in the next few weeks.

他们将在接下来的几周内上涨。

David Kestenbaum is one of the producers of our program.

大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆是我们节目的制作人之一。

The actor who performed Laura's quotes is Jen Davis.

表演劳拉台词的演员是珍·戴维斯 (Jen Davis)。

Our program was produced today by David Kestenbaum.

今天我们的节目由大卫·凯斯滕鲍姆制作。

Our production staff includes Susan Burton, Zoe Chace, Dana Chivvas, Sean Cole, Neil Drumming, Karen Duffin, Emmanuel Dzotsi, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Robyn Semien, Matt Tierney, Nancy Updike, and Diane Wu.

我们的制作人员包括 Susan Burton、Zoe Chace、Dana Chivvas、Sean Cole、Neil Drumming、Karen Duffin、Emmanuel Dzotsi、Stephanie Foo、Chana Joffe-Walt、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Robyn Semien、Matt Tierney、Nancy Updike 和 Diane Wu。

Research help today from Christopher Swetala and Michelle Harris.

Christopher Swetala 和 Michelle Harris 今天提供了研究帮助。

Music help today from Damian Graef.

今天达米安·格雷夫 (Damian Graef) 提供音乐帮助。

Our website, thisamericanlife.org.

我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。

This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.

《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。

Thanks as always to our show's co-founder Mr. Torey Malatia.

一如既往地感谢我们节目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。

He does not understand why the president's motorcade has to cause so much traffic whenever he's driving around New York heading to Trump Tower.

他不明白为什么每次总统开车绕纽约前往特朗普大厦时，他的车队都要造成如此多的交通拥堵。

Like, he has legs.

比如，他有腿。

Ira Glass I'm Ira Glass.

艾拉·格拉斯我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Back next week with more stories of This American Life.

下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。

This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.

《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。

中文为机器翻译，仅供参考。