607: Didn’t We Solve This One? - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #607 | January 6, 2017 607: Didn’t We Solve This One?
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 607 集 | 2017 年 1 月 6 日 607：我们没有解决这个问题吗？
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass So say your name.
序言 Ira Glass 那么说出你的名字。
Say who you are.
说你是谁。
Sure.
当然。
Seth Moulton, a congressman from the sixth district of Massachusetts.
塞思·莫尔顿 (Seth Moulton)，来自马萨诸塞州第六选区的国会议员。
I should say, Seth Moulton, the congressman from the sixth district of Massachusetts.
我应该说，塞思·莫尔顿，来自马萨诸塞州第六选区的国会议员。
You added the "the." That's the difference between--
您添加了“该”。这就是区别——
[LAUGHING] Seth Moulton Because there's only one of me, so.
[笑] Seth Moulton 因为只有我一个人，所以。
And before you were a congressman, you served for how many tours in Iraq?
在您成为国会议员之前，您曾在伊拉克服役过多少次？
I did four tours in Iraq as a Marine infantry officer.
作为一名海军陆战队步兵军官，我曾四次前往伊拉克。
Back in 2003, Seth Moulton was in the first company of Marines to enter Baghdad during the invasion.
早在 2003 年，塞斯·莫尔顿 (Seth Moulton) 就加入了入侵巴格达的第一支海军陆战队连队。
And once they liberated the country, one of his weirder assignments was to show the Iraqis how to start a free press and help them get uncensored news operations up and running.
一旦他们解放了国家，他的一项更奇怪的任务就是向伊拉克人展示如何建立新闻自由并帮助他们建立和运行未经审查的新闻业务。
Up till then, the news media was just propaganda for Saddam Hussein.
在那之前，新闻媒体只是萨达姆·侯赛因的宣传。
And although my primary job was just to teach the Iraqis how to produce their own TV shows, we started doing some announcements, some messages ourselves.
虽然我的主要工作只是教伊拉克人如何制作自己的电视节目，但我们开始自己做一些公告和信息。
And this little thing that Mohamed and I put together-- he was my translator-- proved remarkably popular.
穆罕默德和我一起做的这个小事——他是我的翻译——事实证明非常受欢迎。
Kind of a news commentary show, sort of like 60 Minutes.
有点像《60 分钟》这样的新闻评论节目。
Wait, wait.
等等，等等。
Sort of like 60 Minutes?
有点像 60 分钟？
You mean, like you would investigate stories and run after people in the parking lot?
你的意思是，就像你会调查故事并在停车场追人一样？
Right.
正确的。
Exactly.
确切地。
Exactly.
确切地。
So we'd go out and we'd hear people complaining about the electricity situation, and so we'd go to the power plant and say, what's going on here?
所以我们出去时会听到人们抱怨电力状况，所以我们会去发电厂问，这里发生了什么事？
And they'd say, oh, well, we've got a problem with the transmission lines.
他们会说，哦，好吧，我们的传输线有问题。
So then we'd go out and follow the transmission lines and see what was being done to fix them.
然后我们就会出去跟踪传输线，看看正在采取什么措施来修复它们。
And Iraqis had never seen this before.
伊拉克人以前从未见过这种情况。
I mean, trust me.
我的意思是，相信我。
I didn't know how to put together a TV show.
我不知道如何制作电视节目。
I mean, this was very low-quality stuff, but it was the best the Iraqis had ever seen.
我的意思是，这是非常低质量的东西，但它是伊拉克人见过的最好的东西。
And it was far better than just getting these tapes from the Ministry of Information in Baghdad.
这比从巴格达信息部获得这些磁带要好得多。
Before long, we were signing autographs in the street.
不久，我们就在街上签名了。
We were getting fan mail.
我们收到了粉丝来信。
Everywhere we went, we had to pose for pictures.
每到一处，我们都要摆姿势拍照。
I mean, it was extraordinary.
我的意思是，这太非凡了。
I'm a congressman now, and no one does that back home.
我现在是一名国会议员，在国内没有人这样做。
But the success of that show led to a problem for his interpreter, Mohammed.
但该节目的成功给他的翻译穆罕默德带来了一个问题。
As the years passed, an opposition to the Americans and the new Iraqi government increased.
随着时间的推移，对美国和伊拉克新政府的反对声音日益增加。
It became incredibly dangerous for any Iraqis who were working with US forces.
对于任何与美军合作的伊拉克人来说，这变得极其危险。
People were getting killed.
人们被杀了。
Their families were sometimes killed.
他们的家人有时被杀害。
Mohammed came to the United States on a Fulbright scholarship.
穆罕默德凭借富布赖特奖学金来到美国。
And his family said it's a death sentence for you to come home.
他的家人说你回家就等于被判了死刑。
They were receiving threats.
他们收到威胁。
They had to pick up and move their family to a new city because of the threats they received due to Mohammed's work with me.
由于穆罕默德和我一起工作而受到威胁，他们不得不接家人搬到一个新城市。
Due to him being on television with you.
因为他和你一起上电视。
That's right.
这是正确的。
They all knew Mohammed.
他们都认识穆罕默德。
They knew who he was.
他们知道他是谁。
He was sort of like the local poster child for quote, unquote "collaborators with the Americans."
他有点像当地的典型代表，不加引用的话就是“与美国人合作的人”。
While Mohammad waited to get asylum in the United States, he moved in with Seth Moulton's parents.
当穆罕默德在美国等待获得庇护时，他搬去与塞斯·莫尔顿的父母住在一起。
Seth was actually back in Iraq on his fourth tour.
塞斯实际上是在他的第四次旅行中回到伊拉克的。
Was he in your room?
他在你房间里吗？
Seth Moulton I think he was technically in my brother's room, but--
塞斯·莫尔顿：严格来说，我认为他在我哥哥的房间里，但是——
Your brother's room?
你哥哥的房间？
OK.
好的。
Seth Moulton Across the hall.
塞斯·莫尔顿 穿过大厅。
I was wondering if your stuff from high school was still on the walls when he was there waiting for you.
我想知道当他在那里等你的时候，你高中时的东西是否还在墙上。
I think it still is, so yeah.
我认为现在仍然如此，所以是的。
It was.
是的。
I mean, my parents had an Iraqi son while their son was deployed to Iraq.
我的意思是，我的父母有一个伊拉克儿子，而他们的儿子被部署到伊拉克。
Wow.
哇。
Seth Moulton And he's really become like a son to them and like a brother to me.
塞斯·莫尔顿（Seth Moulton） 他真的变得像他们的儿子一样，对我来说像兄弟一样。
He comes to all our holidays, to Thanksgiving and Christmas.
他会来参加我们所有的节日，感恩节和圣诞节。
Mohammed was allowed to stay in the United States.
穆罕默德被允许留在美国。
But he's one of the lucky ones.
但他是幸运者之一。
Congressman Moulton hears about, and personally knows, other interpreters who have not been allowed here.
莫尔顿议员听说并且亲自认识其他不被允许来这里的翻译。
And in fact, thousands of interpreters and others who work with the United States in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are still back there.
事实上，数千名口译员和其他在阿富汗和伊拉克战争中与美国合作的人员仍然留在那里。
Many of them, their lives are in danger.
其中许多人的生命处于危险之中。
And that's true, even though in 2008, a law was passed to expedite their entrance to the United States.
事实确实如此，尽管 2008 年通过了一项加快他们进入美国的法律。
It's frustrating, the congressman says.
国会议员说，这令人沮丧。
I've been back and forth over email over the past few weeks with a very close interpreter from 2007, 2008, who's trying to come over with his family.
在过去的几周里，我一直通过电子邮件与 2007 年和 2008 年的一位非常亲密的翻译来回通信，他正试图与他的家人一起过来。
We're still fighting.
我们还在战斗。
Still fighting to get him here.
仍在努力把他带到这里。
And you know, I wouldn't be here today, Ira, without my translators.
你知道，如果没有我的翻译，我今天就不会在这里，艾拉。
They risked their lives to keep me and my Marines safe.
他们冒着生命危险保护我和我的海军陆战队员的安全。
And do you understand what is the holdup?
你明白什么是阻碍吗？
Like, if these people are in the pipeline, how come so few of the slots that have been allocated for them are actually getting filled?
就像，如果这些人都在管道中，为什么分配给他们的空缺实际上被填补的空缺这么少？
Well, I think there are some problems.
嗯，我认为存在一些问题。
I hear from a lot of veterans who have their own translators and say, hey, can you help my guy?
我听到很多有自己翻译的退伍军人说，嘿，你能帮助我的人吗？
Can you help my guy get in?
你能帮我的家伙进去吗？
And a lot of times they'll say, you know, I have statements from every Marine or soldier that he worked with saying that this is one of the most trustworthy guys I know, and yet, because they don't check some box for the State Department, they can't get through.
很多时候他们会说，你知道，我收到了与他共事的每一位海军陆战队员或士兵的声明，说这是我认识的最值得信赖的人之一，然而，因为他们没有勾选国务院的某些方框，所以他们无法通过。
The day I spoke with the congressman-- just a few weeks ago-- was the day the House was supposed to decide whether to renew the law that issues special visas to help these people who worked with the United States move to our country.
就在几周前，我与国会议员交谈的那一天，众议院应该决定是否更新发放特殊签证的法律，以帮助这些在美国工作的人移居到我们的国家。
He's on the House Armed Services Committee and he just heard the news.
他是众议院军事委员会的成员，他刚刚听到这个消息。
Yeah, we've actually just found out that the final bill includes 1,500 additional visas, which is a step in the right direction.
是的，我们实际上刚刚发现最终法案包括 1,500 个额外签证，这是朝着正确方向迈出的一步。
But the backlog is more than 13,000 people right now.
但目前积压人数已超过 13,000 人。
So 1,500 visas was disappointing to him.
所以1500张签证让他很失望。
He was hoping for a lot more.
他还希望有更多。
There was a lot more in the past.
过去还有很多。
He says vets in Congress from both parties understand how important this is.
他说，国会两党的退伍军人都明白这有多重要。
He has Republican allies like John McCain.
他有约翰·麦凯恩等共和党盟友。
But he gets a lot of pushback from other people in Congress.
但他遭到国会其他人的强烈反对。
And can you explain what's the argument on the other side for making the number of slots so low?
您能否解释一下另一方为何要如此减少插槽数量？
When people argue with you and say, no, no. Let's make the number slots low, what do they say?
当人们与你争论并说“不，不”时。让我们减少插槽数量，他们怎么说？
You know, it's just this anti-immigrant sentiment in the Republican Party.
你知道，这就是共和党内的反移民情绪。
And unfortunately, it's from a lot of Republicans who haven't served overseas who don't understand how important this is.
不幸的是，许多没有在海外服役过的共和党人不明白这有多重要。
They say, oh, we can't trust these people, or we know of Iraqis and Afghans who want to kill Americans.
他们说，哦，我们不能相信这些人，或者我们知道伊拉克人和阿富汗人想要杀害美国人。
Well, right, of course, but not the ones who put their lives on the line to work for us.
嗯，对，当然，但不是那些冒着生命危险为我们工作的人。
I mean, these people took tremendous risks.
我的意思是，这些人冒了巨大的风险。
They've taken greater risks for our country than these folks in Congress who are opposed to their immigration and have never served in our military.
他们为我们的国家承担了比国会中那些反对移民且从未在我们军队服役的人更大的风险。
Do you say that to them?
你对他们这么说吗？
Seth Moulton Well, I try to be a little bit more diplomatic about it, but.
塞思·莫尔顿（Seth Moulton）：好吧，我试着用更圆滑的方式来表达这件事，但是。
Yeah.
是的。
Seth Moulton There's a lot of fear out there among my colleagues right now that Trump has been so successful with his crusade against immigration.
塞斯·莫尔顿（Seth Moulton）：现在，我的同事们对特朗普的反移民运动如此成功感到担忧。
People are afraid that if they stand up for a program like this it will be used against them in some future election.
人们担心，如果他们支持这样的计划，它将在未来的选举中被用来对付他们。
President-elect, of course, campaigned against allowing people from Muslim countries to come into our country.
当然，当选总统反对允许穆斯林国家的人进入我国。
Of course, my fear is that the Trump administration won't be willing to work with us at all.
当然，我担心特朗普政府根本不愿意与我们合作。
I mean, I don't think someone who-- I mean, what did Trump have, five deferments or something so he wouldn't have to go to Vietnam?
我的意思是，我不认为有人——我的意思是，特朗普有什么，五次延期或其他什么，这样他就不必去越南了？
I don't think that he's going to understand this at all.
我认为他根本不会理解这一点。
Yeah.
是的。
Wait, are you calling him like a draft dodger?
等等，你是说他是个逃避兵役的人吗？
No, I'm not calling him like a draft dodger.
不，我并没有称他为逃兵。
I'm calling him a draft dodger.
我称他为逃兵。
What is going to happen?
将会发生什么？
Over the years on our program, we have covered the stories of several different people who worked with US forces and tried to get relocated to America when they put their lives in danger.
多年来，我们的节目报道了几位在美军工作过的不同人的故事，他们在冒着生命危险时试图移居美国。
In the first half of today's show, we return to one of those people, to somebody who started trying to come here eight years ago.
在今天节目的前半部分，我们回到了其中一个人，一个八年前开始尝试来到这里的人。
Yes, they've been at this for eight years.
是的，他们已经这样做了八年了。
We wanted to understand what's going to happen to her now with this new administration arriving.
我们想了解随着新政府的到来，她现在会发生什么。
In the second half of the show, we have the amazing and disturbing story of how we got to this point as a country.
在节目的后半部分，我们讲述了一个令人惊奇且令人不安的故事，讲述了我们作为一个国家是如何走到这一步的。
Like, why Congress authorized these special visas in the first place to solve this problem, and why they have not worked so well.
比如，为什么国会首先批准这些特殊签证来解决这个问题，以及为什么它们效果不佳。
A warning before we start that if you're listening with small American children, this is not a story that's going to make you feel good to be an American.
在我们开始之前先警告一下，如果你正在和美国小孩子一起听，这个故事不会让你感觉自己是一个美国人。
But of course, it's always good to understand the facts, to see clearly what has happened and why.
但当然，了解事实、清楚地了解发生了什么以及为什么发生总是好的。
And we will do that now.
我们现在就这么做。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Good Things Come to Those Who Wait, But Not Always.
第一幕，好事降临于那些等待的人，但并非总是如此。
So the interpreter that this story's about is named Sarah.
所以这个故事讲述的翻译名叫莎拉。
She worked with US forces in Iraq.
她在伊拉克与美军一起工作。
But we know her because she worked with us, interpreting for our producer Nancy Updike in Iraq for about a month back in 2010 as we were putting together an episode about US forces pulling out of that country.
但我们认识她是因为她与我们一起工作，2010 年，她在伊拉克为我们的制片人南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 做了大约一个月的口译，当时我们正在制作一集有关美军撤出该国的剧集。
Back in 2011, Nancy did a story about Sarah's attempts to get a visa to move to the United States.
早在 2011 年，南希就创作了一篇关于莎拉试图获得移居美国签证的故事。
And that story resulted in a flood of emails from listeners who wanted to help in some way.
这个故事引发了听众的大量电子邮件，他们希望以某种方式提供帮助。
Not that there was a lot they could do.
并不是说他们能做很多事情。
Nancy's been in touch with Sarah on and off over the years.
多年来，南希一直断断续续地与莎拉保持联系。
And she's checked back in with her this fall.
今年秋天她又回来了。
Sarah spent most of December-- this December, just a few weeks ago-- working with a reporter going in and out of Mosul.
萨拉花了 12 月的大部分时间——今年 12 月，就在几周前——与一名进出摩苏尔的记者一起工作。
That's the city Iraqi forces have been fighting to take back from ISIS.
这就是伊拉克军队一直在努力从伊斯兰国手中夺回的城市。
That's one of Sarah's skills, keeping her nerve in a dangerous place.
这是莎拉的技能之一，让她在危险的地方保持镇静。
But the reason people open up to Sarah-- the reason they remember her-- is because, no matter what's going on around her, who she was before the war still comes through.
但人们向莎拉敞开心扉的原因——他们记住她的原因——是因为，无论她周围发生什么，她在战前的身份仍然清晰可见。
This warm, chatty housewife, who, for most of her life, was raising her two boys, getting up every morning and putting on clothes that will be familiar to anyone who's ever spent the whole day at home.
这位热情、健谈的家庭主妇，一生的大部分时间都在抚养她的两个儿子，每天早上起床，穿上那些整天待在家里的人都会熟悉的衣服。
Normally I was wearing in my house like, you know, a tracksuit and pajamas.
通常我在家里穿着运动服和睡衣。
And then a uniform.
然后是制服。
The uniform was an American military uniform.
制服是美国军服。
And Sarah is laughing because she can still barely believe the arc of her adult life.
莎拉笑了，因为她仍然不敢相信自己成年生活的轨迹。
She worked alongside US soldiers during one of the most violent stretches of the Iraq war.
在伊拉克战争最暴力的时期之一，她与美国士兵并肩作战。
And she went straight into that having never worked outside her home in her life.
她一生中从未外出工作过，直接进入了这个领域。
So Sarah's story-- the story you're about to hear-- is about an ordinary woman with no heroic ambitions who took on a role for which she was the unlikeliest of candidates and thrived.
所以莎拉的故事——也就是你即将听到的故事——讲述了一个没有英雄抱负的普通女性，她承担了一个她最不可能胜任的角色，并取得了成功。
Sarah started working as an interpreter as a last resort.
作为最后的手段，莎拉开始担任口译员。
The war had been going on for a few years already and interpreters were being targeted and killed because they were working for the United States.
战争已经持续了几年，口译员因为为美国工作而成为攻击目标并被杀害。
But Sarah was desperate.
但莎拉很绝望。
She and her family had been bombed out of their house, and her husband's business had been taken over by militias.
她和她的家人被炸出家门，她丈夫的生意也被民兵接管。
Even before the war, Sarah's marriage had not been happy.
即使在战前，莎拉的婚姻也并不幸福。
Her husband never let her work outside the home.
她的丈夫从不让她外出工作。
Didn't even let her finish college.
甚至没有让她读完大学。
Now the family was broke and sometimes going hungry, including her kids, Mustafa, 16, and Baqir, who just turned 10.
现在，这个家庭破产了，有时还挨饿，其中包括她 16 岁的孩子穆斯塔法 (Mustafa) 和刚满 10 岁的巴吉尔 (Baqir)。
Sarah's husband refused to go out and look for work out of fear that he'd be killed.
莎拉的丈夫拒绝外出寻找工作，因为担心自己会被杀。
And people were being killed in the streets.
人们在街上被杀。
But someone had to do something.
但总得有人做点什么。
Sarah took an English test at a US military base.
莎拉在美国军事基地参加了英语测试。
She'd always been good at languages.
她一直擅长语言。
She passed the test and was offered a contract with a starting salary of $1,150 a month.
她通过了测试，并获得了一份起薪为每月 1,150 美元的合同。
That was the good part of the contract.
这是合同中好的部分。
The contract said 27 days in the camp and then four days vacation.
合同规定在营地待27天，然后放假4天。
So it's a very long time for me to leave my kids alone in the house.
所以我有很长一段时间把孩子们单独留在家里。
So you would be living on the base with the Americans for 27 days and then get four days at home?
那么你会在基地与美国人一起生活 27 天，然后在家里呆 4 天？
You couldn't commute back and forth and see them at night, even?
甚至晚上你也不能来回看他们吗？
No, no, no. So I really worried about this item in the contract.
不，不，不。所以我真的很担心合同里的这个项目。
But yes, I start to work with them and I found myself in a room smaller than this one, alone.
但是，是的，我开始和他们一起工作，我发现自己独自一人在一个比这个更小的房间里。
And I spend only one night and then I want to quit the next morning.
我只住了一晚，第二天早上我就想退出。
Yeah.
是的。
I wanted to take my bag and run away to my house because each time I hear the American soldiers in the back laughing and talking, I said, what am I doing here?
我想拿上我的包跑回我家，因为每次我听到后面的美国士兵有说有笑，我就说，我在这里做什么？
This is not my place.
这不是我的地方。
My place is with my boys in the house.
我的住所是和我的孩子们一起呆在家里。
How can I just bear 27 days without seeing my kids?
我怎么能忍受27天见不到孩子呢？
And then one of the Iraqi interpreters, he saw me so confused, and I told him this is the first day for me.
然后一位伊拉克翻译，他看到我很困惑，我告诉他这是我的第一天。
I want to quit.
我想退出。
I want to leave.
我想离开。
So he says, this is normal thing.
所以他说，这是正常的事情。
We all felt the same way you feel now.
我们都和你现在的感受一样。
So just relax and give yourself time.
所以放松一下，给自己一些时间。
Picture a woman in her late 30s with a wide face.
想象一个 30 多岁、宽脸的女人。
5 foot 3, but solid, not fragile.
5英尺3英寸，但坚固，不脆弱。
Huge smile.
灿烂的笑容。
Now wearing fatigues, bulletproof vest, medic bag, wraparound shrapnel-resistant glasses, and a helmet.
现在穿着迷彩服、防弹背心、医疗包、环绕式防弹眼镜和头盔。
40-plus pounds of gear.
40 多磅的装备。
Sarah is her nickname.
莎拉是她的昵称。
All Iraqi interpreters pick nicknames.
所有伊拉克口译员都会起绰号。
The fewer people who know their real names, the better.
知道自己真实姓名的人越少越好。
She picked Sarah.
她选择了莎拉。
It's easy to pronounce in English and in Arabic.
它的英语和阿拉伯语发音都很容易。
Sarah was an interpreter for Alpha Company 177.
莎拉是阿尔法 177 连的翻译。
But she did more than just interpret.
但她所做的不仅仅是解释。
She gathered key information that became intel for the unit.
她收集的关键信息成为了该部队的情报。
This was back during the surge.
这在激增期间又回来了。
Baghdad was on the edge of all-out civil war and the surge plan was to send US military outfits like Alpha Company out into the middle of dangerous areas with constant IED and sniper attacks to try and stabilize them.
巴格达正处于全面内战的边缘，增兵计划是派遣阿尔法连等美军部队进入危险地区，不断进行简易爆炸装置和狙击手袭击，试图稳定局势。
Alpha Company landed in southwest Rashid in Baghdad.
阿尔法连在巴格达西南部的拉希德登陆。
At the time, it was a confusing churn of different militias, including the powerful Mahdi Army, the Jaish al-Mahdi, who were trying to control the area.
当时，不同民兵组织混杂在一起，混乱不堪，其中包括试图控制该地区的强大的迈赫迪军（Jaish al-Mahdi）。
Kidnapping and killing were common.
绑架和杀戮屡见不鲜。
And the only way for the Americans to fight was to get tips from informants, ordinary local people who were frightened all the time of the militias, of the Americans.
美国人战斗的唯一方法是从线人那里获取线索，他们是一直害怕民兵和美国人的当地普通民众。
Sarah's job was to try to convince these frightened people to talk.
莎拉的工作就是试图说服这些受惊的人开口说话。
Her new boss, Captain Bill Higgins-- he's actually now a lieutenant colonel-- gave her an assignment.
她的新老板比尔·希金斯上尉——他现在实际上是一名中校——给了她一项任务。
Call up this guy.
打电话给这个人。
He doesn't want to talk, but just try.
他不想说话，但只是尝试一下。
Try to talk with him.
尝试与他交谈。
Try to ask him about the neighborhood.
尝试向他询问附近的情况。
And I called him and I talked with him.
我打电话给他并与他交谈。
I'm Sarah.
我是莎拉。
I'm working with Americans, these things.
我正在与美国人合作，这些事情。
And I asked him about the neighborhood, his neighborhood, and he started to give me his real name, his job, all the information about the bad guys in his neighborhood.
我向他询问了附近的情况，他的邻居，他开始告诉我他的真实姓名，他的工作，以及有关他附近坏人的所有信息。
So when I told the captain after I finished my call, he was really surprised.
所以当我打完电话告诉船长时，他真的很惊讶。
And he said, Sarah, we tried with him since six months.
他说，莎拉，六个月以来我们一直在尝试与他合作。
Tried to get even his name, and he refused to give it to us.
甚至试图询问他的名字，但他拒绝告诉我们。
This is something unbelievable.
这是令人难以置信的事情。
It was the first time for me to recognize and realized that there is other things I can do in addition to be a housewife-- a good housewife.
这是我第一次认识到，意识到除了做一个家庭主妇之外，我还可以做其他的事情——一个好家庭主妇。
I start to feel all this energy inside me, all these good things inside me.
我开始感受到我体内的所有能量，所有这些美好的事物。
So yes, there is something else.
所以是的，还有其他事情。
I can do it within the right way.
我能以正确的方式做到这一点。
Lieutenant Colonel Higgins told me it really was unbelievable how good Sarah was at getting people to open up to her.
希金斯中校告诉我，莎拉在让人们向她敞开心扉方面表现得如此出色，真是令人难以置信。
They trusted her.
他们信任她。
They liked talking to her.
他们喜欢和她说话。
Lieutenant Colonel Higgins felt that way.
希金斯中校也有这样的感觉。
Sarah was approachable, sympathetic, funny, and unexpected, like running into your favorite sister or aunt in a war zone.
莎拉平易近人，富有同情心，有趣，而且出人意料，就像在战区遇到你最喜欢的姐妹或阿姨一样。
Even though she was dressed in fatigues, as soon as she started talking, it was clear to people that she knew their world and she knew them.
尽管她穿着迷彩服，但一开口，人们就清楚地知道她了解他们的世界，她了解他们。
She used to be them.
她曾经是他们。
Nancy, I spent 17 years in the kitchen, making food for the family and guests all the time.
南希，我在厨房工作了 17 年，一直为家人和客人做饭。
So this is like a big step for me to get out from all this thing to a new world.
所以这对我来说是迈出的一大步，让我摆脱这一切，进入一个新世界。
Sarah's world flipped.
莎拉的世界发生了翻天覆地的变化。
Everything that had seemed overwhelming in the beginning became normal-- militias, informants, raids, IEDs, gunfire, dead bodies, and working around the clock.
一开始看似势不可挡的一切都变得正常了——民兵、线人、突袭、简易爆炸装置、枪声、尸体和昼夜不停的工作。
27 days in a row of this.
连续27天都是这样。
And then a mini vacation.
然后是一个迷你假期。
Four days off-- and not even fully off.
四天休息——甚至还没有完全休息。
She gave trusted informants or sources her personal cell phone number.
她向值得信赖的线人或消息来源提供了她的个人手机号码。
She found herself struggling to get back into the quiet rhythm that used to be her whole life-- making meals, cleaning the house, being a mom.
她发现自己很难回到过去生活的安静节奏——做饭、打扫房子、做妈妈。
You know, vacation.
你知道，假期。
The problem for me was, even when I was in my vacation, people keep calling me.
对我来说，问题是，即使在我度假的时候，人们仍然不断给我打电话。
And this didn't let me switch off all these things and be a mom instead of being interpreter.
这并没有让我放弃所有这些事情并成为一名母亲而不是翻译。
One of the times when I was in a vacation, Baqir asked me to do his favorite food-- chicken in the oven with rice, of course-- and at the same time, I got a call from a source.
有一次我在度假时，巴吉尔请我做他最喜欢的食物——当然是烤箱里的鸡肉配米饭——与此同时，我接到了一位消息人士的电话。
She start to tell me something so important about weapon caches in the area and I'm just holding the phone in one hand and try to put the tray in the oven.
她开始告诉我一些关于该地区武器储藏室的重要信息，我只是用一只手拿着手机，尝试将托盘放入烤箱。
Maybe you can see where this ends.
也许你能看到这一切的结局。
She burns herself.
她烧伤了自己。
She's still got the scar.
她身上还留着伤疤。
But listen to her voice.
但听听她的声音。
She's thrilled.
她很兴奋。
She wasn't just good at her job.
她不仅仅擅长她的工作。
She loved her job.
她热爱她的工作。
On that phone call, the information she got while getting burned was so important, she left her vacation early.
在那通电话中，她在被烧伤时得到的信息非常重要，她提前离开了假期。
It was really a big day for us.
这对我们来说确实是一个重要的日子。
We captured about 18 leaders in the same night.
当晚我们抓获了大约 18 名领导人。
Sarah became indispensable.
莎拉变得不可或缺。
Out of the four or five interpreters the unit worked with regularly, she was the top.
在该单位经常合作的四、五名口译员中，她名列前茅。
She was the one that Lieutenant Colonel Higgins and his operations officer wanted at their meetings with local sheikhs and other leaders.
她是希金斯中校和他的作战军官在与当地酋长和其他领导人会面时想要的人。
They sought her opinion as well as her interpreting skills.
他们征求她的意见以及她的口译技巧。
And her work with informants was crucial.
她与线人的合作至关重要。
Lieutenant Colonel Higgins says he's certain that some of the people who called, especially women, would never have talked to a male interpreter.
希金斯中校表示，他确信一些打电话的人，尤其是女性，永远不会与男性翻译交谈。
Sarah got letters of praise from military officers that were a effusive and consistent.
莎拉收到了军官们热情洋溢、前后一致的表扬信。
They wrote, "her work has directly led to identifying many criminal actors and capturing them." "We've learned that Sarah is feared by local criminals." "Sarah unhesitatingly faced the same dangers as our soldiers." "She's earned the trust and confidence of everyone in the unit."
他们写道，“她的工作直接导致识别出许多犯罪分子并将他们抓获。” “我们了解到当地犯罪分子害怕莎拉。” “莎拉毫不犹豫地面临着与我们的士兵同样的危险。” “她赢得了单位里每个人的信任和信心。”
The letters also talked about how hard Sarah worked.
信中还谈到了莎拉的工作有多努力。
Lieutenant Colonel Higgins sometimes let her kids come to the compound and stay with her for a few days when the long separations got too difficult.
当长时间的分离变得太困难时，希金斯中校有时会让她的孩子们来院子里陪她几天。
Her husband came a couple of times, too.
她的丈夫也来过几次。
Sarah later overheard him talking to the kids about it.
莎拉后来无意中听到他和孩子们谈论这件事。
He said, I really shocked when I saw your mother do all this work all the time, day and night.
他说，当我看到你妈妈日夜不停地做这些工作时，我真的很震惊。
So God help her and protect her.
所以上帝帮助她并保护她。
The word empowerment has a quaintness about it now in the US as though it's forever rendered in a '70s-era font.
“赋权”这个词现在在美国显得有些古怪，就好像它永远以 70 年代的字体呈现一样。
But there's no other word for what happened to Sarah.
但对于发生在莎拉身上的事情，没有其他的说法。
She became empowered.
她变得有力量了。
She used to be embarrassed to talk to strangers.
她过去常常羞于与陌生人交谈。
Now she could talk to anyone.
现在她可以和任何人交谈。
And when she did, everyone listened.
当她这样做时，每个人都在听。
Her world had become huge.
她的世界变得无比广阔。
For Sarah, it was a change that would come at a staggering personal cost.
对于莎拉来说，这是一个需要付出惊人个人代价的改变。
And she saw others pay a price for their courage, also.
她看到其他人也为自己的勇气付出了代价。
Sarah called up a woman in the area one day at the captain's request.
有一天，莎拉应船长的要求给该地区的一名妇女打电话。
He said, Sarah, this woman really has good information about a very bad area in the sector.
他说，莎拉，这位女士确实掌握了该行业一个非常糟糕的领域的详细信息。
We need her.
我们需要她。
I told her, I'm a mom too, and I have two boys, and I accept to do this work and it was very dangerous because someone needs to be serious with this area, with this country.
我告诉她，我也是一个妈妈，我有两个男孩，我接受做这项工作，这是非常危险的，因为有人需要认真对待这个地区、这个国家。
It has to be me or you or anyone to bring the secure and the safe to the area.
必须是我或你或任何人才能为该地区带来安全和保险柜。
The woman agreed to talk in spite of being frightened.
尽管很害怕，这位女士还是同意谈话。
She lived in a neighborhood where militia members often hid.
她住在民兵经常藏身的街区。
From the back of her house, she could see what was happening on the main street-- people planting IEDs to catch US military vehicles.
从她家的后面，她可以看到主要街道上发生的事情——人们安放简易爆炸装置来拦截美国军车。
And from the front, she could see who and what was coming into the area.
从前面，她可以看到谁和什么正在进入该区域。
She was a great source, calling Sarah at home to tell her about weapons and militias.
她是一个很好的消息来源，给萨拉家里打电话，告诉她有关武器和民兵的信息。
They became friends.
他们成了朋友。
And she told Sarah that the militias had a nickname for Sarah-- the Lion.
她告诉莎拉，民兵给莎拉起了个绰号——狮子。
One day, the woman's husband called Sarah and said, they came and took her.
有一天，该妇女的丈夫打电话给莎拉，说他们来带走了她。
Militia leaders took her.
民兵领导人带走了她。
I know the militias.
我认识民兵。
They are savage.
他们很野蛮。
And they torture everyone.
他们折磨每个人。
They don't care about a woman or a kid or anything.
他们不关心女人或孩子或任何东西。
And I feel guilt.
我感到内疚。
I thought maybe I am the reason for what she will suffer from.
我想也许我就是她遭受痛苦的原因。
I just wanted to take her back to her kids and-- so I was like a crazy, talking, crying, and talking with the captain, begging him to find any way to go and try to find her.
我只是想带她回到她的孩子们身边，然后——所以我就像一个疯子一样，一边说话，一边哭泣，与船长交谈，恳求他想办法找到她。
I called one of the double agents who work with the Americans and work with me.
我给一位与美国人合作并与我合作的双重间谍打了电话。
Someone in the Jaish al-Mahdi who was working with you, working with the Americans?
马赫迪军中有人与你一起工作，与美国人一起工作吗？
Yes.
是的。
And I begged him, just tell me where they will take her.
我求他，告诉我他们会带她去哪里。
Tell me about the places where you keep the kidnapped people.
告诉我你们关押被绑架者的地方。
So we move from house to house, and all the houses were empty.
于是我们挨家挨户搬家，所有的房子都空了。
We spent maybe two days searching for her.
我们花了大约两天时间寻找她。
And then her husband called me and said, hey, Sarah, they called us and they said, we killed her.
然后她的丈夫打电话给我说，嘿，莎拉，他们打电话给我们，他们说，我们杀了她。
Really, it was-- every time I remembered her, I really said, she was the Lion, not me.
真的，每次我想起她，我都会说，她是狮子，而不是我。
I'm not.
我不是。
I wasn't the Lion.
我不是狮子。
She was the Lion.
她是狮子。
Yeah.
是的。
In the beginning of 2008, after Lieutenant Colonel Higgins and his group had rotated out and a new group had come in, Sarah's husband joined the Sons of Iraq.
2008年初，在希金斯中校和他的团队轮换并加入新团队后，莎拉的丈夫加入了伊拉克之子。
These were groups of Iraqis the Americans paid to fight alongside them, especially against al Qaeda.
这些是美国人花钱雇来的伊拉克人，与他们并肩作战，特别是对抗基地组织。
Her husband was killed after less than a month.
不到一个月，她的丈夫就被杀了。
He was driving his car in one of the streets where they put their checkpoints, and two cars drive beside his car with three men inside it, and they start to shoot on him and kill him in his car.
他当时正在他们设置检查站的一条街道上开着自己的车，两辆汽车开在他的车旁边，车里有三名男子，他们开始向他开枪，并在他的车里杀死了他。
I shocked, really.
我震惊了，真的。
I start to cry.
我开始哭泣。
My boys jumped in my mind and I called Mustafa immediately and I asked him about Baqir and he told me, he is in the house with me.
我的孩子们在我的脑海里跳了起来，我立即打电话给穆斯塔法，我向他询问了巴吉尔的情况，他告诉我，他和我一起在房子里。
And I said, don't go anywhere because I will come to you.
我说，别去任何地方，因为我会来找你。
And I was crying and he was confused and asked me, what's going on?
我哭了，他很困惑，问我，发生了什么事？
Mom, tell me what's going on.
妈妈，告诉我发生了什么事。
Sarah was horrified to learn from one of her informants that her husband was killed at least in part because of her work.
莎拉从一位线人那里得知，她的丈夫至少部分是因为她的工作而被杀，她对此感到震惊。
The informant told her he saw militia members the day her husband died.
线人告诉她，在她丈夫去世的那天，他看到了民兵。
He saw them celebrate after his killing and distribute candies and laughing and call each other and congratulate each other.
他看到他们在他被杀后庆祝，分发糖果，大笑，互相打电话祝贺。
Hey, we killed Sarah's husband.
嘿，我们杀了莎拉的丈夫。
Sarah started trying to get herself and her sons out of Iraq, to emigrate to the US for safety.
莎拉开始尝试让自己和儿子离开伊拉克，移民到美国寻求安全。
With the help of Lieutenant Colonel Higgins and others from his unit, as well as people from the new group, she applied for a special visa-- one of the visas created by Congress specifically for people like Sarah who were working with the United States.
在希金斯中校和他所在部队的其他人以及新小组人员的帮助下，她申请了特殊签证——这是国会专门为像莎拉这样在美国工作的人设立的签证之一。
But in the fall of 2008, as she was waiting to do her first interview to get the visa, something totally unexpected happened.
但2008年秋天，当她等待第一次面试以获得签证时，发生了完全意想不到的事情。
She was taken into custody, put in an American jail at the Baghdad airport.
她被拘留，关进巴格达机场的美国监狱。
No idea why.
不知道为什么。
She was questioned for days before she could figure out what was going on.
她被审问了好几天，才弄清楚发生了什么事。
Sarah had been accused, anonymously, by another Iraqi of betraying the Americans she was working with.
另一名伊拉克人匿名指控莎拉背叛了与她一起工作的美国人。
The accusation was that she had taken money from militias, had snuck militia members into the Sons of Iraq to spy on the Americans, and had interpreted inaccurately on purpose to help militia members get released.
指控称她从民兵那里收受金钱，将民兵成员偷偷潜入伊拉克之子来监视美国人，并故意进行不准确的翻译以帮助民兵成员获释。
To Sarah, these accusations seemed absurd.
对莎拉来说，这些指控似乎很荒谬。
These militias she had supposedly helped were the same militias that had killed her husband and bombed her home.
她据称帮助过的这些民兵正是杀害她丈夫并轰炸她家的民兵。
But it didn't matter if the accusations made sense.
但这些指控是否有道理并不重要。
She sat in prison for two months before she got to defend herself in front of a judge.
她在监狱里坐了两个月，然后才在法官面前为自己辩护。
The Iraqi judge threw the case out for insufficient evidence, but it took another month for the paperwork to go through.
伊拉克法官以证据不足为由驳回了此案，但文书工作又花了一个月的时间才完成。
And incredibly, in that month, her situation got worse.
令人难以置信的是，在那一个月里，她的情况变得更糟了。
She was transferred from the American jail into Iraqi custody.
她被从美国监狱转移到伊拉克拘留所。
And really it was a terrible experience for me there in the Iraqi jail.
对于我来说，在伊拉克监狱里的经历确实是一次可怕的经历。
I don't want to remember anything.
我不想记住任何事情。
That jail makes my hair grey, really.
那个监狱真的让我的头发变白了。
Those three months undid her.
这三个月让她崩溃了。
Not only the jails.
不仅仅是监狱。
Sarah had been keeping all her savings in a bag in her room at the camp where she'd worked with the Americans.
莎拉一直把她所有的积蓄都放在她与美国人一起工作的营地房间里的一个袋子里。
Banks hadn't felt safe.
银行感到不安全。
Iraq was still unstable.
伊拉克局势依然不稳定。
And she hadn't wanted to leave it at her house.
她不想把它留在家里。
When her son Mustafa went to go pick up her things from the camp while Sarah was sitting in jail, the money was gone.
当莎拉在监狱里时，她的儿子穆斯塔法去营地取她的东西，钱就不见了。
I said, no way.
我说，没办法。
There was all my saving money in the bag.
袋子里全是我的积蓄。
He says, no, Mom.
他说，不，妈妈。
The bag was empty.
袋子是空的。
About $20,000 disappeared, she says.
她说，大约 20,000 美元消失了。
The family had lived frugally the entire time Sarah was working so she could save most of her paycheck.
莎拉工作期间，一家人一直节衣缩食，这样她就可以省下大部分薪水。
It was money she'd planned to use for them to emigrate, if necessary.
她计划用这笔钱让他们在必要时移民。
Now they didn't even have it to live on.
现在他们连生活的钱都没有了。
There was a final blow.
最后一击来了。
Even though the case against her had been dismissed and Sarah had an exemplary work record, she had been blacklisted.
尽管针对她的案件已被驳回，并且莎拉有着出色的工作记录，但她仍被列入黑名单。
The anonymous accusations that a judge had thrown out for lack of evidence and that she herself has never seen to this day became part of her US Defense Department file.
法官因缺乏证据而驳回的匿名指控，以及她本人至今从未见过的指控，已成为她美国国防部档案的一部分。
The technical term is derogatory information, and apparently the anonymous derogatory information in Sarah's file outweighed all the letters of praise and support signed by US military people who had worked and lived with Sarah for months.
专业术语是贬义信息，显然莎拉档案中的匿名贬义信息超过了与莎拉一起工作和生活了几个月的美国军人签署的所有赞扬和支持信。
So even though her case was thrown out of court for lack of evidence, she was no longer allowed to work for the US, and her visa to America was denied.
因此，尽管她的案件因缺乏证据而被法庭驳回，但她不再被允许为美国工作，她的美国签证也被拒绝。
Derogatory information isn't uncommon in these cases.
在这些情况下，贬义信息并不少见。
And it could be anything-- a genuine threat, a misunderstanding, a grudge.
它可以是任何东西——真正的威胁、误解、怨恨。
I talked to Richard Welch, a US Army colonel who's now retired.
我与现已退休的美国陆军上校理查德·韦尔奇进行了交谈。
He was in Iraq for almost seven years during the war, and he spent a lot of time assessing the validity of accusations against Iraqis who worked for the US.
战争期间，他在伊拉克待了近七年，他花了很多时间评估对为美国工作的伊拉克人的指控的有效性。
He also had detailed knowledge of Sarah's case.
他还对莎拉的案件有详细的了解。
He saw her security file and the derogatory information in it.
他看到了她的安全档案和里面的贬义信息。
He called her case quote, "a shameful situation and a gross miscarriage of justice." He does not think she's a threat.
他称她的案例引述是“一种可耻的情况和严重的误判”。他不认为她是一个威胁。
I remember every unit she worked with vouched for her credibility and her trustworthiness and her ability.
我记得她工作过的每一个单位都证明了她的信誉、她的值得信赖和她的能力。
I just think it's outrageous.
我只是觉得这太离谱了。
I mean, honestly, it's just not American to frankly do that to these folks.
我的意思是，老实说，坦率地对这些人这样做不是美国人。
I first met Sarah in 2010, about a year before the US declared the war officially over.
我第一次见到莎拉是在 2010 年，大约在美国宣布战争正式结束的前一年。
Another reporter, Larry Kaplow, and I were working together and Sarah was our interpreter.
另一位记者拉里·卡普洛和我一起工作，莎拉是我们的翻译。
There was a moment in the This American Life episode that Larry and I put together when Sarah was on the air as herself, not just interpreting for someone else.
在我和拉里制作的《美国生活》节目中，有一个时刻，莎拉以她自己的身份在广播中，而不仅仅是为别人翻译。
It was less than a minute long, but she was the person everyone remembered at the end of the show.
节目时长不到一分钟，但节目结束后所有人都记住了她。
The moment happened when Sarah was interpreting for us during an interview with a former Sons of Iraq fighter.
这一刻发生在莎拉在采访一名前伊拉克之子战士时为我们做翻译时。
He pulled a tissue from a box next to him to make a point.
他从旁边的盒子里抽出一张纸巾来表达自己的观点。
[CRYING] I'm sorry.
[哭泣] 对不起。
He says the American forces use us like a tissue.
他说美军像使用纸巾一样使用我们。
I feel the same thing.
我也有同样的感觉。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
When Sarah worked for the United States, she didn't cover her face with a mask the way some interpreters did because she knew that people talked more if they could see her face, if they could see who they were talking to.
当莎拉在美国工作时，她没有像一些口译员那样用口罩遮住脸，因为她知道，如果人们能看到她的脸，如果他们能看到他们在和谁说话，他们就会说得更多。
And we, the United States, needed people to talk.
我们美国需要人们说话。
So Sarah's face is known to the militia leaders she helped the US question and put in prison.
所以莎拉的脸被她帮助美国质问并关进监狱的民兵领导人所熟知。
Some of those militia leaders were released from prison after the US left.
美国离开后，其中一些民兵领导人被释放。
Five years ago, Sarah re-applied to come to the United States for herself and her sons.
五年前，莎拉重新申请为自己和儿子来美国。
And in that time, her interview with US immigration officials has been scheduled and then canceled three times.
在那段时间里，她与美国移民官员的面谈已经三度预定又取消。
And a whole group of people-- military personnel who worked with Sarah, lawyers who took on her case, reporters she worked with, and Sarah herself-- all tried to figure out what the hell was going on.
一大群人——与莎拉一起工作的军人、受理她案件的律师、与她一起工作的记者，以及莎拉本人——都试图弄清楚到底发生了什么事。
We asked USCIS, the United States Citizen and Immigration Services, to explain why Sarah's case has dragged on so long, so extraordinarily long.
我们要求美国公民及移民服务局（USCIS）解释为什么莎拉的案件拖延了这么长时间，如此漫长。
More typical is two years.
更典型的是两年。
All the spokesman would say is that USCIS can't discuss the details of individual immigration cases.
发言人只会说美国移民局不能讨论个别移民案件的细节。
Two years ago, Sarah and her kids moved to another country, Jordan, because it was safer for them and because immigration officials told Sarah the visa process might go faster if she was outside Iraq.
两年前，莎拉和她的孩子搬到了另一个国家约旦，因为这对他们来说更安全，而且移民官员告诉莎拉，如果她不在伊拉克，签证流程可能会更快。
She moved, even though Jordan is expensive, and she couldn't work there legally, and she had no family nearby.
尽管乔丹的物价昂贵，而且她不能在那里合法工作，而且附近也没有家人，但她还是搬了家。
Finally, in November, 2016, two months ago-- eight years since her husband was killed and she very first started applying to come to the United States-- Sarah got a phone call from a US immigration official who, she says, told her her interview would happen in one hour.
最后，在 2016 年 11 月，也就是两个月前，也就是她丈夫被杀、她第一次开始申请来美国八年后，莎拉接到了一位美国移民官员的电话，她说，移民官员告诉她，面试将在一小时内进行。
It wasn't enough time for Sarah to bring the lawyer she's entitled to, but she managed to get there in time with her kids, and they did the interview.
莎拉没有足够的时间带她有权聘请的律师，但她和孩子们及时赶到了那里，他们接受了采访。
I called Sarah up in Jordan the day after the interview.
面试后的第二天，我给远在约旦的莎拉打了电话。
Look, Nancy, I really told the boys, you have to expect the worst.
听着，南希，我真的告诉孩子们，你必须做好最坏的打算。
Maybe they will deny us.
也许他们会否认我们。
Yeah.
是的。
Sarah Because I lost hope.
莎拉 因为我失去了希望。
To be honest, Nancy, I lost all the hope.
说实话，南希，我失去了所有的希望。
I just felt that I am stuck in Jordan.
我只是觉得我被困在约旦了。
But really I am not complaining from the way of my life.
但实际上我并不是在抱怨我的生活方式。
All of my complaining is for my boys and their future, growing up without any degree or any good education.
我所有的抱怨都是为了我的孩子们和他们的未来，他们在没有任何学位或良好教育的情况下长大。
I can say they are lost.
我可以说他们迷失了。
A month later, she got her answer.
一个月后，她得到了答案。
A few days before Christmas, I got an email from Sarah saying her application had been denied.
圣诞节前几天，我收到莎拉发来的一封电子邮件，说她的申请被拒绝了。
The form letter from USCIS said her case was quote, "denied as a matter of discretion for security-related reasons." No specifics on the security-related reasons.
美国移民局的格式信函称，她的案件被引用，“出于安全相关原因而被拒绝”。没有具体说明与安全相关的原因。
She has 90 days to appeal, but the appeal has virtually no chance.
她有 90 天的时间上诉，但上诉几乎没有机会。
I'm not going to pretend I don't have an opinion here.
我不会假装我在这里没有意见。
Based on all the conversations I've had with US military personnel who worked with Sarah and know her, based on the time I spent working with her and the years I've known her, I think we failed Sarah.
根据我与与莎拉共事并认识她的美国军事人员进行的所有对话，根据我与她一起工作的时间以及我认识她的岁月，我认为我们辜负了莎拉。
We, I mean the United States.
我们，我指的是美国。
I think we failed her by letting this process drag on for so many years, some of them with Sarah and her kids living in limbo in Jordan.
我认为我们让她失望了，让这个过程拖了这么多年，其中一些是莎拉和她的孩子们生活在约旦的困境中。
And I think after letting her case languish, we made the wrong call.
我认为在让她的案子陷入困境之后，我们做出了错误的决定。
My understanding is, in cases like Sarah's, anything that looks the slightest bit off outweighs everything else, even if it's from an anonymous tipster, even if American soldiers who worked with her never believed the accusations and, in fact, spent years trying to help her get to the United States.
我的理解是，在像莎拉这样的案件中，任何看起来有一点点不对劲的事情都比其他一切都重要，即使是来自匿名线人，即使与她一起工作的美国士兵从不相信这些指控，事实上，他们花了数年时间试图帮助她到达美国。
Americans want to be safe.
美国人想要安全。
I want to be safe.
我想要安全。
But in my opinion, we aren't safer for keeping Sarah out, and we are abandoning a friend and an ally.
但在我看来，将莎拉拒之门外并不安全，我们正在抛弃我们的朋友和盟友。
Nancy Updike is one of the producers of our show.
南希·厄普代克是我们节目的制片人之一。
Coming up in the second half of the program, Nancy returns with the saga of how this special visa program for interpreters came to exist in the first place and why it's never worked that great.
在该计划的后半部分，南希带着传奇的故事回来了，讲述了这个针对口译员的特殊签证计划最初是如何存在的，以及为什么它从来没有那么有效。
That's in a minute.
就在一分钟之内。
It's from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续时，是芝加哥公共广播电台的声音。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, Didn't We Solve This Problem?
今天我们的节目，这个问题我们没有解决吗？
A new administration is arriving in Washington DC.
新政府即将抵达华盛顿特区。
What is going to happen to all the interpreters and other people we worked with in Iraq and Afghanistan, people whose lives are threatened-- some of them because they helped us.
所有口译员和我们在伊拉克和阿富汗共事的其他人将会发生什么，他们的生命受到威胁——其中一些人是因为他们帮助了我们。
We have arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。
Act Two, He's Making a List.
第二幕，他正在列一个清单。
In this half of our show, we return to somebody else who we've put on the program before, a guy named Kirk Johnson.
在我们节目的这半部分中，我们回到了我们之前在节目中提到过的另一个人，一个名叫柯克·约翰逊的人。
Kirk Johnson was in his mid-20s when he got involved in trying to help these people who worked with the United States in these recent wars get to safety in our country.
柯克·约翰逊 (Kirk Johnson) 20 多岁的时候就开始尝试帮助这些在最近的战争中与美国合作的人在我们国家获得安全。
He'd worked for USAID in Iraq, the Agency for International Development.
他曾在伊拉克的美国国际开发署（即国际开发署）工作。
He spoke and read Arabic.
他说和读阿拉伯语。
And he inadvertently-- like, without intending it-- became the point person and catalyst for eventually what became US policy on this subject.
他无意中——就像，无意中——成为最终成为美国在这一问题上的政策的关键人物和催化剂。
And then he watched his efforts succeed and fail kind of at the same time.
然后他看着自己的努力同时成功和失败。
Nancy Updike tells what happened.
南希·厄普代克讲述了发生的事情。
On Kirk's first vacation out of Iraq, after a year of working in Fallujah and Baghdad, he had a fluke accident.
在费卢杰和巴格达工作一年后，柯克第一次离开伊拉克度假时，遭遇了一次意外事故。
He fell out of a window.
他从窗户掉了下去。
That's actually not part of this story, except to say that Kirk was so badly injured that he couldn't go back to Iraq.
这实际上不是这个故事的一部分，只是说柯克受了重伤，无法回到伊拉克。
He wanted to.
他想要。
He thought about it all the time.
他一直在思考这个问题。
And he had a lot of time to think about it, since he was spending months and months recovering from a series of painful surgeries, fighting with his health insurance company, and draining his bank account.
他有很多时间思考这个问题，因为他花了数月的时间从一系列痛苦的手术中恢复，与他的健康保险公司发生争执，并耗尽了他的银行账户。
Kirk had to start his adult life completely over.
柯克必须完全重新开始他的成年生活。
He began applying to law schools.
他开始申请法学院。
I really did feel, at that point, that I was moving on, that I was thinking about Iraq less.
在那一刻，我确实感觉到我正在继续前进，我对伊拉克的思考越来越少。
I stopped reading the news from Iraq.
我不再阅读来自伊拉克的新闻。
But one day, one of my good Iraqi friends sent an email.
但有一天，我的一位伊拉克好朋友发了一封电子邮件。
I mean, he was one of the highest-ranked Iraqis that worked for USAID.
我的意思是，他是为美国国际开发署工作的级别最高的伊拉克人之一。
I think it was a $130 million program that he was working on.
我认为他正在进行一项耗资 1.3 亿美元的项目。
And he opened up his front door and found the severed head of a dog and a death threat note that said that we're going to cut off your heads.
他打开前门，发现了一只狗的头，还有一张死亡威胁纸条，上面写着我们要砍掉你的头。
I mean, a very clear death threat sort of lobbed into their front yard.
我的意思是，一个非常明显的死亡威胁传到了他们的前院。
When Kirk got this email, it was the fall of 2006 and he was practically broke and living in his aunt's basement on a futon.
当柯克收到这封电子邮件时，那是 2006 年秋天，他几乎身无分文，住在姨妈的地下室的蒲团上。
So with the email, he felt like, that's terrible, but there's nothing I can do.
因此，通过电子邮件，他觉得，这太糟糕了，但我无能为力。
It took him a few weeks to realize that maybe there was something he could do.
他花了几周的时间才意识到也许他可以做点什么。
He started writing an op-ed saying, I think our government should help my friend and people like him.
他开始写一篇专栏文章说，我认为我们的政府应该帮助我的朋友和像他这样的人。
I felt that of course there's some office to give out visas to these people.
我觉得当然有一些办公室可以给这些人发放签证。
Of course the government has some program.
当然政府有一些计划。
It's just that my friends haven't heard about it yet, and so--
只是我的朋友们还没有听说过，所以——
And neither have I, but I'll do this op-ed and then I'm going to connect with the people.
我也没有，但我会写这篇专栏文章，然后我将与人们建立联系。
Yeah, somebody will step forward and just fix it.
是的，有人会挺身而出并修复它。
Kirk's op-ed ran in the Los Angeles Times in mid-December, 2006.
柯克的专栏文章于 2006 年 12 月中旬发表在《洛杉矶时报》上。
And I remember thinking, OK, good job, buddy.
我记得我当时想，好吧，干得好，伙计。
What a good thing you've done by raising awareness of this situation.
通过提高人们对这种情况的认识，你做了一件多么好的事情啊。
And I was getting back to work on the law school stuff.
我又开始处理法学院的事情了。
Except that I started getting all of these emails from other former colleagues at USAID-- former Iraqi colleagues.
除了我开始收到来自美国国际开发署其他前同事——前伊拉克同事的所有这些电子邮件。
I mean, it was within an hour or so that it was put online.
我的意思是，它在一个小时左右的时间内就发布到了网上。
And then by the afternoon, I was getting hundreds of emails from Iraqis that had read the article but who had worked at the State Department or as interpreters for the military.
到了下午，我收到了数百封来自伊拉克人的电子邮件，他们读过这篇文章，但曾在国务院工作或担任过军方的翻译。
So in other words, people you had not worked with directly, but they knew people who knew you or who had read it and it just got forwarded around.
换句话说，那些你没有直接共事过的人，但他们认识认识你的人，或者读过这本书的人，而这本书就被转发了。
Exactly.
确切地。
And they were all telling me their stories and sending me pictures of family members who had been killed, pictures of their bodies where they had been tortured or shot, pictures of the stumps of limbs that had been blown off while they were interpreting for the Marines.
他们都在向我讲述他们的故事，并向我发送被杀害的家庭成员的照片、他们遭受酷刑或枪杀的尸体的照片、他们在为海军陆战队翻译时被炸掉的肢体残肢的照片。
And all of a sudden, I was staring into sort of the guts of the refugee crisis.
突然之间，我开始关注难民危机的实质。
They were grown men and women and heads of families that were telling me that I was their only hope and that they were putting all of their faith in me to help them with their cases.
他们是成年男女和一家之主，他们告诉我，我是他们唯一的希望，他们完全相信我会帮助他们处理案件。
And I was just kind of this unemployed, scar-faced scrub at that point.
那时我就是一个失业的、满脸疤痕的磨砂人。
Like, I was not like, all right--
就像，我不喜欢，好吧——
"Everybody rally behind me" kind of thing.
“每个人都团结在我身后”之类的事情。
Like, there was none of that.
就像，没有这些。
It was just like, holy cow.
这就像，天哪。
I've just bumbled into something way bigger than I know what to do with.
我刚刚遇到了一件比我知道要做什么更大的事情。
I need to find the real people who I'll just give this stuff to, and they'll just solve it.
我需要找到真正的人，我会把这些东西交给他们，他们就会解决这个问题。
Kirk didn't know it yet, but there wasn't some special process at the time for dealing with most of these Iraqis.
柯克还不知道，当时并没有什么特殊的程序来处理这些伊拉克人中的大多数。
All there was was one small program to let in 50 Iraqi or Afghan interpreters a year.
只有一个小计划，每年引进 50 名伊拉克或阿富汗口译员。
That was it, even though there were tens of thousands of Iraqis doing all sorts of jobs for the United States, jobs that were increasingly risky to be seen doing-- office jobs, operating machinery, working as cooks, drivers, and interpreters.
就是这样，尽管有数以万计的伊拉克人为美国从事各种工作，但这些工作的风险越来越大——办公室工作、操作机器、厨师、司机和口译员。
Kirk started putting together a list of names and his plan was to meet with representatives from the Refugee Bureau in the State Department and give them the list.
柯克开始整理一份名单，他的计划是与国务院难民局的代表会面并向他们提供名单。
Just go to the top and solve the problem directly.
直接到最上面就可以解决问题了。
But he wanted to keep his requests simple.
但他想让自己的要求保持简单。
He knew from working in a government bureaucracy himself-- USAID-- that simple works best.
他本人在政府官僚机构——美国国际开发署——工作过，知道简单的方法效果最好。
So his first list was just Iraqis he knew from working at USAID.
因此，他的第一份名单只是他在美国国际开发署工作时认识的伊拉克人。
He would just be the USAID guy with the list of USAID names.
他只是负责美国国际开发署名单的人。
He spent weeks tracking them all down, not just the ones who had already written to him, and putting information about each one-- who they were, where they were, what job they'd done, what had happened to them-- into an Excel spreadsheet.
他花了数周的时间来追踪所有这些人，而不仅仅是那些已经写信给他的人，并将每个人的信息——他们是谁、他们在哪里、他们做过什么工作、他们发生了什么——放入 Excel 电子表格中。
Next, Kirk gave the list to the State Department Refugee Bureau.
接下来，柯克将名单交给了国务院难民局。
But the meeting was short and inconclusive.
但会议时间很短，而且没有结论。
He wasn't sure, when he left, what to expect from them in terms of help for the Iraqis on the list.
当他离开时，他不确定他们会为名单上的伊拉克人提供什么帮助。
And then, from that meeting, he headed to a second meeting in Washington.
然后，在那次会议之后，他前往华盛顿参加第二次会议。
And that's where he got a much clearer sense of how at least some people in the government saw what he was doing.
正是在这里，他对至少政府中的一些人如何看待他正在做的事情有了更清晰的认识。
He went to the USAID office.
他去了美国国际开发署办公室。
I decided to pay a visit to USAID kind of as a courtesy call to just explain what I thought I was doing with the list and also to just have a talk, because one of my former bosses had called me up after the op-ed-- he was a Bush appointee-- and sort of angrily he had said to me that I was dragging the nation back onto the rooftop of Saigon with that op-ed.
我决定拜访美国国际开发署，算是礼节性的拜访，只是解释一下我对这份名单的看法，也只是想谈谈，因为我的一位前老板在这篇专栏文章发表后给我打电话——他是布什任命的——他有点愤怒地对我说，我用这篇专栏文章把国家拖回了西贡的屋顶。
Meaning Kirk's op-ed, which hadn't mentioned Vietnam, had reminded his former boss-- and maybe others-- that the United States had left Vietnamese allies behind at the end of the Vietnam War.
这意味着柯克的专栏文章没有提到越南，但提醒了他的前老板——也许还有其他人——美国在越南战争结束时把越南盟友抛在了后面。
No one in the Bush administration wanted the Iraq War to remind anyone of Vietnam, especially at this point in early 2007, when the war was going so badly.
布什政府中没有人希望伊拉克战争让任何人想起越南战争，尤其是在 2007 年初，当时战争进展得如此糟糕。
And I walk into this room and the Bush appointee that I had last seen in Baghdad-- the Saigon rooftop dude-- he's got a binder in front of him.
当我走进这个房间时，我最后一次在巴格达见到的布什任命的人——西贡屋顶上的家伙——他面前有一个活页夹。
It's a green binder and I noticed my name is written on the binding of it.
这是一个绿色的活页夹，我注意到它的封面上写着我的名字。
And he says, Kirk, you know, I don't know if you're aware about this, but you're not actually allowed to be writing about anything as a former-- you can't write about what you saw in Iraq.
他说，柯克，你知道，我不知道你是否意识到这一点，但实际上你不被允许以前辈的身份写任何东西——你不能写你在伊拉克看到的事情。
You can't write about it as a former US government official.
作为一名前美国政府官员，你不能写这件事。
You have a gag order in your contract.
你的合同里有禁言令。
And I knew my contract very well.
我非常了解我的合同。
There was no gag order or anything.
没有禁言令什么的。
And so I got annoyed because I felt like it was kind of an obnoxious way to start out the meeting.
所以我很生气，因为我觉得这是一种令人讨厌的会议开始方式。
But the tone was very--
但语气却很——
Don't make us hurt you.
别让我们伤害你。
Kirk Johnson Yeah.
柯克·约翰逊 是的。
I mean, he said, are you going to write anything else about Iraq?
我的意思是，他说，你还会写一些关于伊拉克的其他文章吗？
And I said, yes.
我说，是的。
And he goes, about what?
然后他就走了，关于什么？
And I said, well, I haven't made up my mind yet.
我说，好吧，我还没有下定决心。
And he goes, well, here's what we would prefer is that you submit all future publications to us for clearance first because we'd hate to see your objectives tanked or torpedoed-- one of those phrases, like bad things might happen.
他说，好吧，我们希望您首先将所有未来的出版物提交给我们以供审批，因为我们不想看到您的目标被击沉或被鱼雷击中 - 其中一个短语，就像可能会发生不好的事情一样。
And I just remember telling him that if you guys want to come after me on this, go for it, but just imagine what that's going to look like-- that USAID is going after a former USAID employee for trying to help former USAID employees.
我只记得告诉他，如果你们想在这件事上追捕我，那就去做吧，但想象一下那会是什么样子——美国国际开发署正在追捕一名试图帮助前美国国际开发署雇员的前美国国际开发署雇员。
That's about where the meeting ended.
会议就到这里结束了。
But the strangest part was what happened afterward.
但最奇怪的是后来发生的事情。
I just told them, all right, well, we don't really have anything else to talk about.
我只是告诉他们，好吧，我们真的没有什么可谈的。
And so I got up and walked out of the Bureau.
于是我起身走出了局。
And I could sort of sense that he was behind me, but when I was standing at the elevator bank to go back down, he thrust his business card into my hand.
我能感觉到他就在我身后，但当我站在电梯口准备下楼时，他把他的名片塞到了我手里。
And I didn't really understand because obviously, I had this guy's contact info.
我真的不太明白，因为显然我有这个人的联系信息。
There's no point in giving me a business card.
给我名片是没有意义的。
And I look down and he's written the name of an Iraqi woman on his business card.
我低头一看，他在名片上写下了一名伊拉克妇女的名字。
And then he says to me in a hushed tone, he goes, look.
然后他低声对我说，他走，看。
If she gets in touch with you, make sure that you add her to your list.
如果她与您联系，请确保将她添加到您的列表中。
It was literally 90 seconds earlier that he had been trying to scare me out of doing something and now he's asking me to help some Iraqi that he knew.
就在 90 秒前，他一直试图吓唬我不要做某事，现在他要求我帮助一些他认识的伊拉克人。
And I looked at him and his eyes glimmered and he goes, don't worry.
我看着他，他的眼睛闪闪发光，他走了，别担心。
It's not like I slept with her or anything.
这不像是我和她睡过什么的。
Just see if you can get her help or whatever.
看看你能否得到她的帮助或其他什么。
That conversation and the sit-down with the State Department's Refugee Bureau happened in the winter of 2007.
那次谈话以及与国务院难民局的会谈发生在 2007 年冬天。
Kirk's conclusion was, well, that didn't work.
柯克的结论是，这行不通。
His next move was more media pressure, some of which was happening on its own.
他的下一步行动是加大媒体压力，其中一些是自行发生的。
George Packer wrote in The New Yorker about Kirk's list and the Iraqis on it.
乔治·帕克在《纽约客》上撰文介绍了柯克的名单以及名单上的伊拉克人。
And Kirk saw that any Iraqis mentioned in Packer's story started moving more quickly through the bureaucracy.
柯克发现帕克故事中提到的任何伊拉克人都开始更快地在官僚机构中移动。
So Kirk spent the next few months trying to get every journalist who asked for an interview to write about a different Iraqi on the list.
因此，柯克在接下来的几个月里试图让每一位要求采访的记者都报道名单上的另一个伊拉克人。
He also talked with more government officials and a lot of the conversations ended up being variations on the Saigon-rooftop-man meeting-- people in government who understood how bad the situation was but said to Kirk, basically, no, I can't help you.
他还与更多的政府官员进行了交谈，很多谈话最终都变成了西贡屋顶人会议的变体——政府中的人了解情况有多糟糕，但对柯克说，基本上，不，我帮不了你。
But could you maybe help me?
但你能帮我吗？
Kirk reached out to the congressman from his home district in Illinois, Peter Roskam, a friend of Kirk's dad from his time in state Republican politics.
柯克联系了来自伊利诺伊州家乡选区的国会议员彼得·罗斯卡姆（Peter Roskam），他是柯克父亲在州共和党政治生涯中的朋友。
Kirk asked Roskam to co-sponsor a piece of legislation that would have helped Iraqi interpreters as well as Iraqi Christians and gay Iraqis, all of whom were being targeted.
柯克要求罗斯卡姆共同发起一项立法，该立法将帮助伊拉克口译员以及伊拉克基督徒和伊拉克同性恋者，他们都是目标。
And my congressman wouldn't sign onto it because he didn't believe, out of principle, that gay people should receive any preferential treatment.
我的国会议员不会签署它，因为他原则上不相信同性恋者应该受到任何优惠待遇。
And I think it was like a month afterwards his chief of staff started referring names to my list.
我认为大约一个月后，他的幕僚长开始将名字提到我的名单上。
I have some of the emails here if you want, but--
如果你想要的话，我这里有一些电子邮件，但是——
Yeah!
是啊！
Kirk Johnson I'll skip the guy's name.
柯克·约翰逊（Kirk Johnson） 我会跳过这个人的名字。
"Kirk, so-and-so worked with me in Iraq and is now in danger from Iraqi militia organizations.
“柯克，某某曾与我一起在伊拉克工作，现在正面临伊拉克民兵组织的危险。
Please add her to your list of Iraqis who worked with US forces.
请将她添加到您与美军合作的伊拉克人名单中。
Thanks." Period.
谢谢。”时期。
Just out of the blue without any reference to not sponsoring the legislation?
就这么突然，没有提到不支持这项立法吗？
Yeah.
是的。
There's another one, this almost two minutes later.
大约两分钟后，还有另一件事。
"Kirk, so-and-so and his wife, so-and-so, worked with me in Iraq in '03, '04, '05, and '06.
“柯克某某和他的妻子某某于 03 年、04 年、05 年和 06 年与我一起在伊拉克工作。
They are now in danger in Iraq for the association with the Americans.
他们现在在伊拉克因与美国人的联系而处于危险之中。
Please add them to your list." Period.
请将它们添加到您的列表中。”时期。
"Thanks." Period.
“谢谢。”时期。
Kirk realized that in Washington people had all sorts of reasons not to help him with his list.
柯克意识到，华盛顿的人们有各种各样的理由不帮助他列出清单。
The list was bad news for the Bush administration, a clear indication that the war in Iraq was going terribly.
这份名单对布什政府来说是个坏消息，清楚地表明伊拉克战争正在激烈进行。
And there was a bigger problem.
还有一个更大的问题。
There's no point dancing around the fact that nobody in the State Department or Homeland Security wants their signatures to be on the next 9/11 hijacker's visa, and they've said this to me.
国务院或国土安全部中没有人希望他们的签名出现在下一个 9/11 劫机者的签证上，这一事实毫无意义，而且他们已经对我说了这一点。
I've gotten phone calls from people high up in state that have said like, not everybody agrees with you that it's a good idea to be bringing over a lot of Muslims into the United States now.
我接到州里高层人士的电话，他们说，不是每个人都同意你的观点，即现在将大量穆斯林带入美国是个好主意。
That's the gorilla in the room here is that we see these people as potential terrorists.
这就是房间里的大猩猩，我们将这些人视为潜在的恐怖分子。
Even though you were talking about Iraqis who, because they worked for the US in Iraq, had been vetted there.
尽管你谈论的是伊拉克人，因为他们在伊拉克为美国工作，所以在那里接受了审查。
I mean, security procedures in order to allow them to work for USAID, or--
我的意思是，允许他们为美国国际开发署工作的安全程序，或者——
You can't ride in a Humvee with Marines without getting screened.
如果没有经过安检，你就不能与海军陆战队员一起乘坐悍马车。
I mean, the Iraqis that worked with me, they were all getting polygraph examinations.
我的意思是，和我一起工作的伊拉克人都接受了测谎仪检查。
I don't try to pull out this card, but I feel like I'm not so naive that-- I mean, as someone who spent a fair amount of time in Fallujah, I'm aware that there are bad people in the world, but the people I'm trying to help, they're actually running from terrorists.
我不想拿出这张卡片，但我觉得我并不那么天真——我的意思是，作为一个在费卢杰呆过相当长一段时间的人，我知道世界上有坏人，但我试图帮助的人实际上是在躲避恐怖分子。
Late spring, 2007.
2007年春末。
Kirk realized there weren't enough journalists to write about everyone on the list.
柯克意识到没有足够的记者来报道名单上的每个人。
And he still hadn't gotten anyone out of Iraq and to safety, not even the ones who had been written about.
他仍然没有把任何人带出伊拉克并转移到安全地带，甚至包括那些被报道过的人。
They were just moving faster through a process that was opaque, no way to know for sure if they were two weeks away from an answer or two years.
他们只是在一个不透明的过程中进展得更快，无法确定他们是否需要两周或两年才能得到答案。
In some sort of overwrought cases, people were referring to me as like the Schindler of the Iraqis and all this stuff just because I had a list.
在某些过度紧张的情况下，人们把我称为伊拉克人的辛德勒之类的东西，只是因为我有一份清单。
But I still had done nothing.
但我仍然什么也没做。
In some ways, I saw the list as like a drainpipe that everything's just sort of tumbled down into it and people just chuck stuff into it and added names and this kind of thing.
在某些方面，我认为这份清单就像一个排水管，所有东西都掉进了里面，人们只是往里面塞东西，然后添加名字之类的东西。
And I think in some way, it made a lot of people feel like, oh god, here's this huge crisis.
我认为在某种程度上，这让很多人感觉，天哪，这是一场巨大的危机。
Here's this huge sort of stain on the honor of our country-- the abandonment of these people-- but thank god there's this kid with the list.
这是对我们国家荣誉的巨大污点——这些人被遗弃——但感谢上帝，名单上有这个孩子。
I remember at one point, I was getting an email every 80 or 90 seconds from a family.
我记得有一次，我每 80 或 90 秒就会收到一封来自某个家庭的电子邮件。
Kirk was still in his aunt's basement, still basically broke.
柯克还在他姨妈的地下室里，基本上还是身无分文。
And the stress of what to do about the ever-increasing list was so relentless that he was getting headaches he couldn't shake for days in a row, grinding his teeth down.
而应对不断增加的清单所带来的压力是如此无情，以至于他连续几天都头痛得无法摆脱，咬牙切齿。
His whole existence was the list.
他的整个存在就是这份清单。
He had no personal life.
他没有个人生活。
Kirk Johnson Every night, the laptop would be next to me in bed and I'd wake up in the morning with more names to put in and type them into an Excel sheet.
柯克·约翰逊 (Kirk Johnson) 每天晚上，笔记本电脑都会放在我床上，早上醒来时，我会看到更多的名字需要输入，然后将它们输入到 Excel 表格中。
And then suddenly there was movement.
然后突然有动静。
In the summer of 2007, Kirk and some lawyers officially formed an organization, the List Project, recruiting lawyers around the country to work with Iraqis on the list pro bono, helping them navigate the visa process.
2007 年夏天，柯克和一些律师正式成立了一个名为“名单项目”的组织，在全国各地招募律师无偿为名单上的伊拉克人提供服务，帮助他们办理签证流程。
Kirk's friend, the Iraqi USAID colleague whose email had started everything, arrived in the US at the end of the summer with his wife.
柯克的朋友，美国国际开发署的伊拉克同事，他的电子邮件开启了一切，他与妻子于夏末抵达美国。
Kirk's parents in Illinois volunteered to take them in.
柯克在伊利诺伊州的父母自愿收留他们。
And over the next year, Kirk worked with some senators, especially Senator Ted Kennedy, to get a law passed that would create a fast track for these Iraqis to get to the US.
在接下来的一年里，柯克与一些参议员，特别是参议员特德·肯尼迪合作，通过了一项法律，为这些伊拉克人进入美国创造一条快速通道。
Senator Kennedy was like a bulldozer when he got behind an issue.
肯尼迪参议员在处理问题时就像推土机一样。
And he led this effort to create what was called the Refugee Crisis in Iraq Act.
他领导了这项工作，制定了所谓的《伊拉克难民危机法案》。
And what that did was create something called the Special Immigrant Visa for Iraqis, but also for Afghans who worked for us.
这样做的目的是为伊拉克人以及为我们工作的阿富汗人创造一种所谓的特殊移民签证。
And I'll never forget when it passed because a few of us who had been involved with his office and were in the trenches on this, we were patched in and we got to talk to Senator Kennedy on the floor of the Senate like in the moments after the act passed.
我永远不会忘记法案通过的那一刻，因为我们中的一些人曾参与过他的办公室，并在这方面处于最前沿，我们得到了补充，我们在参议院与肯尼迪参议员交谈，就像法案通过后的那一刻一样。
And it had all of this bipartisan support-- Senator Brownback and Lugar.
它得到了两党的支持——参议员布朗巴克和卢格。
And Senator Obama and Hillary Clinton were on it.
奥巴马参议员和希拉里·克林顿也参与其中。
And amazingly it created 25,000 visa slots for Iraqis who worked for the Americans.
令人惊讶的是，它为为美国人工作的伊拉克人创造了 25,000 个签证名额。
Over the course of five years.
五年的时间里。
5,000 a year, right?
一年5000块吧？
Exactly.
确切地。
But at that time when it passed, I had maybe, I don't know, 1200 names on my list.
但当它过去的时候，我的名单上可能有，我不知道，1200 个名字。
And I just remembered, after I hung up with Kennedy, collapsing on the couch and truly feeling like it was over.
我只记得，挂断肯尼迪的电话后，我瘫倒在沙发上，真的感觉一切都结束了。
Even if every one of my Iraqis took one of those visas-- the Iraqis on my list, I mean-- there would still be tons left over for the others.
即使我的每一个伊拉克人都获得了其中一个签证——我的意思是我名单上的伊拉克人——仍然会有大量的签证留给其他人。
And suddenly it worked.
突然间它起作用了。
We agitated and now there's a new law.
我们很激动，现在有了新的法律。
But members of the Bush administration had opposed the bill.
但布什政府成员反对该法案。
And a year after it was enacted, only 172 Iraqis who'd worked with the US got in through the new, supposedly speedy, Special Immigrant Visa program.
该法案颁布一年后，只有 172 名曾在美国工作过的伊拉克人通过新的、据说是快速的特殊移民签证计划进入美国。
172 out of a possible 5,000.
5,000 名中的 172 名。
That legislation was basically killed by Bush administration lawyers who found any kind of vague language in it to produce a very narrow, consular interpretation so that not many Iraqis who worked for us would be construed as eligible.
这项立法基本上被布什政府的律师们否决了，他们发现其中任何含糊的语言都会产生非常狭隘的领事解释，这样为我们工作的伊拉克人就不会被视为有资格。
And for Iraqis who were eligible, there were still unexplained delays and chokepoints.
对于符合条件的伊拉克人来说，仍然存在无法解释的延误和阻塞点。
No way to tell what was holding things up or how long an answer would take.
无法判断是什么阻碍了事情的进展，或者需要多长时间才能得到答复。
The pace picked up under the Obama administration, but processing times were still slow.
在奥巴马政府的领导下，处理速度加快了，但处理时间仍然很慢。
Today, out of a possible 27,500 SIVs the US could have issued to Iraqis who worked for the US, fewer than 7,500 have been given out.
如今，美国本来可以向为美国工作的伊拉克人发放 27,500 份 SIV，但实际发放的数量还不到 7,500 份。
A State Department official said that many Iraqis have applied to the US through programs other than SIV.
一位国务院官员表示，许多伊拉克人通过 SIV 以外的计划向美国提出申请。
The official also said the Obama administration is committed to supporting people who helped us.
这位官员还表示，奥巴马政府致力于支持那些帮助过我们的人。
The official said the administration has worked hard to streamline the SIV process while keeping national security as its highest priority.
这位官员表示，政府一直在努力简化重大投资工具流程，同时将国家安全作为最高优先事项。
Among the lucky Iraqis who've made it to the US are almost all the 1,200 people who were on Kirk's list when the Iraqi SIV law passed.
伊拉克 SIV 法通过时，柯克名单上的 1,200 人几乎全部是成功抵达美国的幸运伊拉克人。
About 100 cases are still pending, Kirk says, with lawyers working on them.
柯克说，大约 100 起案件仍在悬而未决，律师正在处理这些案件。
The Iraqi SIV program is winding down.
伊拉克 SIV 计划即将结束。
It's not taking new applications.
它不接受新的申请。
The Afghan program still has about 2,300 slots available, but at the latest count, more than 13,000 Afghans had applied for those slots.
阿富汗计划仍有约 2,300 个名额可用，但根据最新统计，已有超过 13,000 名阿富汗人申请了这些名额。
And we could just say, well, war is terrible, and bureaucracies are slow and cautious, and we can only accept so many people, and that's that.
我们只能说，战争是可怕的，官僚机构缓慢而谨慎，我们只能接受这么多人，仅此而已。
But there is a precedent in our history, a way we could have dealt, all at once, with all of the Iraqis and the Afghans who worked for the US and were in danger and wanted to come here.
但我们的历史上有先例，我们可以一次性处理所有为美国工作、处于危险之中并想来这里的伊拉克人和阿富汗人。
President Obama could have issued an executive order and put them on airplanes and flown them to a secure military base outside the continental US.
奥巴马总统本可以发布行政命令，将它们装上飞机，运送到美国大陆以外的安全军事基地。
Guam, for instance.
以关岛为例。
At the base, they could be screened as thoroughly as they needed to be to keep the US safe, and at the same time, they would be safe.
在基地，可以对他们进行尽可能彻底的筛查，以确保美国的安全，同时他们也将是安全的。
This is not a new idea.
这并不是一个新想法。
We flew 7,000 Iraqis out of northern Iraq in '96.
96 年，我们从伊拉克北部空运了 7,000 名伊拉克人。
In two weeks, we flew 7,000 out directly to Guam, and the average processing time there was 90 days.
两周内，我们将 7,000 件航班直接飞往关岛，平均处理时间为 90 天。
And those Iraqis are all Americans now.
那些伊拉克人现在都是美国人了。
In '99, we flew 20,000 Kosovar Albanians directly to Fort Dix.
99 年，我们将 20,000 名科索沃阿尔巴尼亚人直接飞往迪克斯堡。
When we did do the evacuation of the boat people from Vietnam, we used Guam and these other bases.
当我们从越南撤离船民时，我们使用了关岛和其他基地。
Guam can hold something like 24,000 refugees at any point in time.
关岛在任何时候都可以容纳大约 24,000 名难民。
There were tools on the table that could have stopped all of this.
桌子上有一些工具可以阻止这一切。
Even when the Brits left, they did an airlift.
即使英国人离开后，他们也进行了空运。
They put their Iraqi employees directly on planes and flew them to Oxfordshire to an RAF base there.
他们将伊拉克员工直接送上飞机，飞往牛津郡的英国皇家空军基地。
Australians airlifted out all of their Iraqis.
澳大利亚人空运了所有伊拉克人。
Denmark airlifted out all of their Iraqis in a single night.
丹麦在一夜之间空运了所有伊拉克人。
Poland, the same.
波兰，同样。
What alarms Kirk is not just how we've handled these cases so far, but also what we could do in the future.
令柯克震惊的不仅是我们迄今为止处理这些案件的方式，还有我们未来可以做的事情。
He's alarmed by the various proposals for an immigration ban that President-elect Trump has floated over the last year.
他对当选总统特朗普去年提出的各种移民禁令提案感到震惊。
There's the one that would bar all Muslims from entering the country.
有一项措施将禁止所有穆斯林进入该国。
That's still on Trump's website, although the President-elect has said more recently that the ban wouldn't focus on Muslims, but on people from any nation, quote, "compromised by terrorism." That most likely would apply to anyone who's helped us in our most recent wars as well as the ongoing fight against ISIS.
这仍然在特朗普的网站上，尽管当选总统最近表示，禁令不会针对穆斯林，而是针对来自任何国家的人民，引用的话，“受到恐怖主义的妥协”。这很可能适用于在最近的战争以及持续打击伊斯兰国的斗争中帮助过我们的任何人。
If, for example, with these Iraqis-- if we turn our backs on them, if we just leave them to be devoured by ISIS, it's going to do damage to our national image, to our national credibility, and it's going to do damage to our military's ability to recruit new allies in the future.
例如，如果我们对这些伊拉克人置之不理，如果我们任由他们被伊斯兰国吞噬，就会损害我们的国家形象、我们的国家信誉，也会损害我们军队未来招募新盟友的能力。
Colonel Richard Welch told me a story.
理查德·韦尔奇上校给我讲了一个故事。
He's a retired senior officer who knew Sarah, my interpreter.
他是一位退休高级军官，认识我的翻译莎拉。
He said he got an email last year from a former senior member of the Obama administration floating a request.
他说，去年他收到了一封来自奥巴马政府前高级官员的电子邮件，提出了一项请求。
When ISIS came back to Iraq, I was asked if I would go back to try to work with the tribes again-- Sunni tribes-- to get them to fight ISIS, similar to what we did with the surge.
当伊斯兰国回到伊拉克时，有人问我是否会回去尝试再次与逊尼派部落合作，让他们打击伊斯兰国，就像我们在增兵时所做的那样。
And I said, well, what are we going to ask them to fight for?
我说，好吧，我们要他们为了什么而战？
Are they going to fight for us, who walked away from them the first time?
他们会为第一次离开他们的我们而战吗？
That's what many in that Sons of Iraq group thought, that America had walked away from them.
伊拉克之子组织中的许多人就是这么认为的，美国已经离开了他们。
They've lost faith in our ability to stand with them, and that's what happens.
他们对我们与他们站在一起的能力失去了信心，这就是发生的事情。
We leave a legacy of not being trustworthy.
我们留下了不值得信任的遗产。
When I talked to Kirk a few years ago, he was living in Boston, and it was 2 and 1/2 weeks after the Boston Marathon bombing, which was carried out by Chechen-American Muslims, one of whom was a naturalized US citizen.
几年前，当我与柯克交谈时，他住在波士顿，当时是波士顿马拉松爆炸案发生后的 2 又 1/2 周，爆炸案的凶手是车臣裔美国穆斯林，其中一名已入籍美国公民。
And I asked Kirk if he thought the bombing would turn Americans against the people he was trying to help.
我问柯克，他是否认为爆炸事件会让美国人反对他试图帮助的人们。
Yeah.
是的。
I mean, they weren't Iraqis, but it's like the same false choice that is always put in front of me.
我的意思是，他们不是伊拉克人，但这就像总是摆在我面前的同样错误的选择。
And I'm not stupid.
而且我并不傻。
I'm not making any excuses for terrorists or anything, but can we at least have one shade of nuance and understanding that not every Muslim is trying to kill us and that for years-- for a decade-- people risked their lives to try to help us?
我并不是为恐怖分子或其他任何事情找借口，但我们至少能有一点细微差别并理解，并不是每个穆斯林都试图杀死我们，而且多年来——十年来——人们冒着生命危险试图帮助我们？
That's all I'm asking.
这就是我要问的。
It's just one grain.
这只是一粒谷物。
I'm not asking people to become experts in the difference between Sunni and Shia Islam.
我并不是要求人们成为区分逊尼派和什叶派伊斯兰教的专家。
I'm not trying to have them learn Arabic or anything.
我并不是想让他们学习阿拉伯语或任何东西。
Just give me that.
只要给我那个。
Just recognize that not all of these people are bad, lethal people.
只要认识到并非所有这些人都是坏人、致命的人。
Kirk used to say to people on his list, please be patient.
柯克曾经对他名单上的人说，请耐心等待。
This will take a while, this process.
这需要一段时间，这个过程。
And he would warn them, once you get here, you're going to have to work your ass off.
他会警告他们，一旦你来到这里，你就必须拼命工作。
Take jobs beneath your education level.
从事低于你教育水平的工作。
No one's going to hold your hand.
没有人会握住你的手。
But it'll be worth it for you, for your kids.
但这对你和你的孩子来说都是值得的。
You won't live in fear.
你不会生活在恐惧之中。
What he says now to anyone who contacts him for advice-- and again, these are people who worked for the United States during our two longest wars and who may be in danger because of it-- he tells them, don't apply to the United States.
他现在对任何联系他寻求建议的人说的话——再说一遍，这些人在我们两次最长的战争中为美国工作过，并且可能因此而处于危险之中——他告诉他们，不适用于美国。
Go someplace else.
去别的地方吧。
Nancy Updike.
南希·厄普代克。
Credits Ira Glass Our program was produced today by Susan Burton and Nancy Updike.
图片来源 Ira Glass 今天我们的节目由 Susan Burton 和 Nancy Updike 制作。
Our production staff includes Zoe Chace, Dana Chivas, Sean Cole, Neil Drumming, Karen Duffin, Emmanuel Dzotsi, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, David Kestenbaum, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Robyn Semien, and Matt Tierney.
我们的制作人员包括 Zoe Chace、Dana Chivas、Sean Cole、Neil Drumming、Karen Duffin、Emmanuel Dzotsi、Stephanie Foo、Chana Joffe-Walt、David Kestenbaum、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Robyn Semien 和 Matt Tierney。
Research help today from Christopher Swetala.
Christopher Swetala 今天提供研究帮助。
Music help from Damian Graef.
达米安·格雷夫 (Damian Graef) 的音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
[致谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, at least once a week, he takes me aside and tells me how he thinks we should get Miley Cyrus on the show.
你知道，他每周至少一次把我拉到一边，告诉我他认为我们应该让麦莉·赛勒斯参加节目。
I do not understand this.
我不明白这一点。
Maybe he's into Hannah Montana?
也许他喜欢汉娜·蒙塔娜？
It's always Miley Cyrus, Miley Cyrus, Miley Cyrus.
总是麦莉·赛勒斯，麦莉·赛勒斯，麦莉·赛勒斯。
Don't worry.
不用担心。
It's not like I slept with her or anything.
这不像是我和她睡过什么的。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。