605: Kid Logic - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #605 | February 13, 2026 605: Kid Logic Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 605 集 | 2026 年 2 月 13 日 605：儿童逻辑 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass Rebecca remembers exactly when she learned the astonishing truth.
序言：序言 艾拉·格拉斯丽贝卡清楚地记得她是什么时候得知这个惊人真相的。
She was in second grade and ran into her best friend, Rachel, at school one day.
她当时上二年级，有一天在学校遇到了她最好的朋友雷切尔。
And she pulled me aside and said, you know, last night I lost a tooth and I woke up while the tooth fairy was putting the money under my pillow.
她把我拉到一边说，你知道，昨晚我掉了一颗牙，当牙仙子把钱放在我枕头下时我就醒了。
And guess who the tooth fairy was?
猜猜牙仙子是谁？
I said, oh, my god, who was it?
我说，天哪，这是谁？
I have to know.
我必须知道。
And she said, my dad.
她说，我爸爸。
My dad is the tooth fairy.
我的爸爸是牙仙子。
And I remember running home after school and telling my mom, Mom, I know who the tooth fairy is and declaring it as if I had grown up, that I knew who the tooth fairy was.
我记得放学后跑回家告诉我妈妈，妈妈，我知道牙仙子是谁，并宣称我好像长大了，我知道牙仙子是谁。
And she said, oh, well, who is the tooth fairy?
她说，哦，好吧，谁是牙仙子？
And I turned to her and I said, Rachel's dad is the tooth fairy.
我转向她说，雷切尔的爸爸是牙仙子。
Ronnie Loberfeld is the tooth fairy.
罗尼·洛伯菲尔德 (Ronnie Loberfeld) 是牙仙子。
And she said, I can't believe you know.
她说，我不敢相信你知道。
It's totally secret.
这完全是秘密。
You can't let anyone else know.
你不能让其他人知道。
But you're right, Ronnie is the tooth fairy.
但你是对的，罗尼是牙仙子。
And he works really hard and it's a secret so you can't let anyone else know.
他工作非常努力，这是一个秘密，所以你不能让其他人知道。
He is the tooth fairy, but you can't let anyone else know.
他是牙仙子，但你不能让其他人知道。
And from that day on, Ronnie Loberfeld was the tooth fairy.
从那天起，罗尼·洛伯菲尔德就成了牙仙子。
And all of my notes under my pillow were signed, Love, Ronnie Loberfeld.
我枕头下的所有笔记都签有“爱，罗尼·洛伯菲尔德”。
Now in his day job, what did Ronnie Loberfeld do?
现在，罗尼·洛伯菲尔德 (Ronnie Loberfeld) 的日常工作是做什么的？
I think he did something in finance.
我认为他在金融方面做了一些事情。
He was either an accountant or a stockbroker.
他要么是一名会计师，要么是一名股票经纪人。
He worked next to a Stop and Shop in Massachusetts, in Newton.
他在马萨诸塞州牛顿的一家车站和商店旁边工作。
Had dark hair.
有一头黑发。
Wore a suit.
穿了一套西装。
And I definitely had images of his driving his Volvo around the Boston area and delivering the tooth fairy treats.
我确实记得他驾驶着沃尔沃在波士顿地区行驶并提供牙仙子美食的画面。
I remember wondering what it was like for Rachel to know that her dad was the tooth fairy and definitely being a little envious that her dad had this special job and this special power and that he had this whole other interesting life, where my dad just came home from work and that was it.
我记得我想知道雷切尔知道她的父亲是牙仙子是什么感觉，并且肯定有点嫉妒她父亲有这份特殊的工作和这种特殊的力量，并且他有另一种有趣的生活，我父亲刚刚下班回家，仅此而已。
So when you would actually run into Ronnie Loberfeld, what was it like for you?
那么当你真正遇到罗尼·洛伯菲尔德时，你的感觉如何？
How would you act?
你会如何行动？
I tried to act cool.
我试着表现得很酷。
You know, it's like if you're starstruck but you don't want them to know that you're starstruck.
你知道，这就像你很追星，但你不想让他们知道你很追星。
Exactly.
确切地。
You downplay it.
你淡化了它。
You try not to mention it, but you definitely check them out twice and look at them when they walk away.
你尽量不提，但你肯定会检查他们两次，并在他们走开时看着他们。
Like, oh, my god, you're the tooth fairy.
就像，哦，天啊，你就是牙仙子。
I knew enough to play it cool.
我知道足够冷静。
I said, hey, how you doing?
我说，嘿，你好吗？
What's for dinner?
晚餐吃什么？
How am I getting home tonight?
今晚我怎么回家？
Are my parents going to pick me up?
我的父母会来接我吗？
Have they called?
他们打电话来了吗？
You did play it cool.
你确实表现得很酷。
One interesting question in all of this.
所有这一切中有一个有趣的问题。
Why did both girls come to what seems like the least likely conclusion from the evidence in front of them?
为什么两个女孩都会从眼前的证据中得出看似最不可能的结论？
Of a parent swapping money for a tooth under a pillow?
父母在枕头下用钱换一颗牙齿？
Well, Alison Gopnik studies how children think.
艾莉森·戈普尼克研究儿童的思维方式。
And she says, of course it's logical for a seven-year-old to conclude that her own dad might be the tooth fairy.
她说，对于一个七岁的孩子来说，她自己的父亲可能是牙仙子的结论当然是合乎逻辑的。
Children understand that their parents, for instance, are powerful in all sorts of ways that make them very different from children.
例如，孩子们知道他们的父母在各个方面都很强大，这使他们与孩子截然不同。
Now from a child's point of view, knowing where those powers begin and end is pretty tricky.
现在，从孩子的角度来看，知道这些力量从哪里开始和结束是相当棘手的。
I mean, think about all the things that your parents can do that you can't do.
我的意思是，想想你父母可以做而你不能做的所有事情。
And think about the fact that there isn't any obvious explanation about why your father can use a Visa card, for instance, which is something that you can't do.
想想这样一个事实：没有任何明显的解释说明为什么你的父亲可以使用 Visa 卡，而你却不能这样做。
The power to be a tooth fairy isn't all that much more impressive.
成为牙仙子的力量并没有那么令人印象深刻。
There's a certain kind of story that kids tell, like the Ronnie Loberfeld story, where they look at something going on around them, observe it carefully, think about it logically, how one thing connects to the next thing to the next, and then come to conclusions that are completely incorrect.
孩子们会讲一种特定的故事，比如罗尼·洛伯菲尔德的故事，他们观察周围发生的事情，仔细观察，逻辑思考，一件事如何与下一件事联系起来，然后得出完全错误的结论。
Therapist [?
治疗师[?
Eileen ?] Goldman in Texas tells this story about a little girl on an airplane.
艾琳？]德克萨斯州的戈德曼讲述了一个关于一个小女孩在飞机上的故事。
And she was about four years old and her very first flight.
当时她大约四岁，这是她第一次飞行。
And as the plane was airborne, she turned to the woman next to her and said, when do we get smaller?
当飞机升空时，她转向旁边的女人说，我们什么时候变小？
That had been her experience at airports watching airplanes take off.
这就是她在机场观看飞机起飞的经历。
They do get smaller.
它们确实变小了。
These stories are like jokes, and they're also like poems, I think because there's this aha quality to them, some connection that's made between things, a surprising connection, a wrong connection, actually.
这些故事就像笑话，也像诗，我想是因为它们有一种顿悟的品质，事物之间存在某种联系，实际上是一种令人惊讶的联系，一种错误的联系。
Well, we at This American Life love these stories.
嗯，我们《This American Life》喜欢这些故事。
And so today, we bring you a full hour of them.
所以今天，我们为您带来了整整一个小时的内容。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, kid logic.
今天我们的节目《孩子的逻辑》。
Our show in four acts.
我们的表演分为四幕。
Act 1, baby scientists with faulty data.
第一幕，数据错误的婴儿科学家。
Act 2, werewolves in their youth.
第二幕，年轻时的狼人。
That story from Michael Chabon.
迈克尔·查邦的故事。
Act 3, the game ain't over till the fatso man sings.
第三幕，在胖子唱歌之前游戏还没有结束。
Act 4, when small thoughts meet big brains.
第四幕，当小想法遇到大大脑时。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Baby scientists with faulty data.
数据错误的小科学家。
30 years ago, psychologists and scientists believed that babies could not think at all, that they were irrational and illogical, self-centered little balls of need and want.
30年前，心理学家和科学家认为婴儿根本无法思考，他们是非理性、不合逻辑、以自我为中心的需要和想要的小球。
And what science has learned in the last 30 years is that this is not true, that children are observing the world and thinking about it and coming to logical conclusions from the day they're born.
过去 30 年科学发现，事实并非如此，孩子们从出生那天起就在观察世界、思考世界，并得出合乎逻辑的结论。
When Alison Gopnik and two of her colleagues decided to summarize a lot of this research in a book, they called it The Scientist in the Crib, meaning that babies are like little scientists.
当艾莉森·戈普尼克（Alison Gopnik）和她的两位同事决定在一本书中总结大量这项研究时，他们将其称为“婴儿床里的科学家”，意思是婴儿就像小科学家。
They argue that when a small baby sits in a high chair and drops a spoon onto the floor over and over and over for Mom or Dad to pick up, what the baby is doing, essentially, is running a little baby-sized experiment.
他们认为，当一个小婴儿坐在高脚椅上，一遍又一遍地将勺子扔到地板上，让妈妈或爸爸捡起来时，婴儿所做的本质上是在进行一个婴儿大小的小实验。
Because it turns out that babies are very interested in gravity and how gravity works.
因为事实证明婴儿对重力以及重力如何起作用非常感兴趣。
The fact that things fall down and not up is not obvious to babies.
物体会掉落而不是向上，这一事实对于婴儿来说并不明显。
And it turns out another thing they're very interested in is human beings and how they work.
事实证明，他们非常感兴趣的另一件事是人类及其工作方式。
We are actually the lab rats.
我们实际上是实验室的老鼠。
They're actually doing experiments on us to see how we tick.
他们实际上是在对我们做实验，看看我们是如何运作的。
So when you play drop the spoon, you get two for the price of one.
所以当你玩“丢勺子”游戏时，你可以花一把勺子的钱得到两个勺子。
You get an experiment about gravity.
你会得到一个关于重力的实验。
You get a little physics tutorial.
你会得到一些物理教程。
And you get a psychology tutorial.
你会得到心理学教程。
You can see about how that person will do something over and over again.
你可以看到那个人会如何一遍又一遍地做某事。
Well, kids think with the same logic that adults use and apply that logic just as rigorously.
好吧，孩子们的思考逻辑与成年人使用的逻辑相同，并且同样严格地应用该逻辑。
There are certain things that they simply do not know and take a while to figure out.
有些事情他们根本不知道，需要一段时间才能弄清楚。
Up to six or seven years old, for instance, it's not exactly clear to anyone what is imaginary and what is not, or if wishing for something can make it come true.
例如，在六七岁的时候，任何人都不清楚什么是想象的、什么不是，或者愿望是否可以实现。
There's a wonderful experiment about this, actually, that Paul Harris in England did, where he got children to imagine that something was in a box.
事实上，英国的保罗·哈里斯（Paul Harris）做了一个很棒的实验，他让孩子们想象盒子里有东西。
So he would say, OK, now here's this box.
所以他会说，好吧，现在这是这个盒子。
We're going to open it up.
我们要把它打开。
We're going to close it.
我们要关闭它。
Now let's imagine that there's a puppy in this box, or else let's imagine that there's a monster in the box.
现在让我们想象一下这个盒子里有一只小狗，或者让我们想象一下盒子里有一个怪物。
And he asked the children, is there really a monster in the box?
他问孩子们，盒子里真的有怪物吗？
Is there really a puppy in the box?
盒子里真的有一只小狗吗？
They said no. They were just imagining it.
他们说不。他们只是想象而已。
Then the researcher would walk out of the room, leaving the box behind with the child.
然后研究人员走出房间，把盒子留给孩子。
And then something funny would happen.
然后有趣的事情就会发生。
The kids who were told to imagine a puppy in the box would go over and peek inside the box, just to check.
被告知想象盒子里有一只小狗的孩子们会走过去，偷看盒子里面，只是为了检查一下。
And the kids who were told that there was a monster in the box?
那些被告知盒子里有怪物的孩子们呢？
They would edge away from the box.
他们会慢慢远离盒子。
So they weren't going to take any chances, just in case wishing actually could make monsters happen.
所以他们不会冒险，以防万一愿望真的能让怪物发生。
They didn't want to take any chances about what was going on in that box.
他们不想对那个盒子里发生的事情冒险。
But by the time the children are six or seven, like grownups, they've understood that just wishing for things isn't going to actually make them happen.
但当孩子们六七岁的时候，就像大人一样，他们就会明白，仅仅希望某些事情并不会让它们真正实现。
When they're still small and inexperienced about what happens in the real world, children have to make logical inferences all the time based on the data that they do have.
当他们还很小并且对现实世界中发生的事情缺乏经验时，孩子们必须一直根据他们所拥有的数据做出逻辑推理。
Here is how children responded when our producer, Jonathan Goldstein, asked them about the tooth fairy.
以下是当我们的制片人乔纳森·戈德斯坦向孩子们询问有关牙仙子的问题时，孩子们的反应。
What do you think she does with all of these teeth that she's collecting?
你认为她会用她收集的所有这些牙齿做什么？
Maybe she gives it to the people without teeth.
也许她把它送给了那些没有牙齿的人。
What do you think she does with all these teeth?
你认为她用这些牙齿会做什么？
I really think she just likes to collect teeth and make things out of them.
我真的认为她只是喜欢收集牙齿并用它们做东西。
Like what kind of stuff?
比如什么样的东西？
Boy Lots of stuff.
男孩 很多东西。
Makes a tooth house, tooth trophy, and a tooth desk.
制作牙齿屋、牙齿奖杯和牙齿桌。
How many teeth do you think it takes to make a tooth house?
你认为制作一个牙屋需要多少颗牙齿？
100.
100.
100.
100.
Jonathan Goldstein Why wouldn't she just make the house out of bricks like everyone else?
乔纳森·戈德斯坦（Jonathan Goldstein） 为什么她不像其他人一样用砖块建造房子呢？
Because I don't-- because no one doesn't have brick teeth.
因为我不——因为没有人没有砖牙。
These stories, where kids take a perfectly logical premise and go through a series of perfectly logical deductions that lead to perfectly incorrect conclusions, it turns out that science does not have a name for these stories, which is surprising, given how common they are and how they are recognized around the world for their sheer entertainment value.
在这些故事中，孩子们采取了一个完全逻辑的前提，并进行了一系列完全逻辑的推论，最终得出了完全错误的结论，事实证明，科学并没有为这些故事命名，这令人惊讶，因为它们是如此普遍，而且它们因其纯粹的娱乐价值而在世界各地得到认可。
Here we've collected a few more.
在这里，我们还收集了一些。
We lived in a duplex.
我们住在复式公寓里。
The duplexes directly to the left and the right of us were aunts and uncles.
我们左边和右边的复式公寓是阿姨和叔叔。
Across the street from us, all aunts and uncles.
我们的街对面都是叔叔阿姨。
So there was no such thing as walking out and seeing a stranger.
所以不存在走出去看到陌生人这样的事情。
I just thought we all looked alike.
我只是觉得我们看起来都很像。
We all had common ancestries.
我们都有共同的祖先。
Well, when I became mobile, when I got my first tricycle, I could go a little bit further.
好吧，当我变得可以移动时，当我拥有第一辆三轮车时，我可以走得更远一点。
So I ventured down the street.
于是我冒险沿着街道走下去。
And I looked and I saw this couple sitting there, these two people.
我看了看，看到这对夫妇坐在那里，这两个人。
But they were people that I had never seen before.
但他们是我以前从未见过的人。
I had never seen anything like that because they were white people.
我从来没有见过这样的事情，因为他们是白人。
And because I had never seen white people, I assumed that they were ghosts.
因为我从未见过白人，所以我认为他们是鬼魂。
So I waved, like, I wonder if I wave, what kind of people are they?
所以我挥手，就像，我想知道如果我挥手，他们是什么样的人？
What do they do?
他们做什么？
Do they talk?
他们会说话吗？
So I waved, and I remember hearing the man going [COUGHING] And I thought, wow, that must be the way they talk.
所以我挥手，我记得听到那个人[咳嗽]，我想，哇，这一定是他们说话的方式。
It was like a scientific discovery.
这就像一个科学发现。
I discovered the first ghost people, and they talked to me.
我发现了第一批鬼魂，他们跟我说话。
I communicated.
我沟通了。
I waved.
我挥手。
They waved.
他们挥手。
I said hello, and they said hello in their language.
我打招呼，他们用他们的语言打招呼。
[COUGHING]
[咳嗽]
Well, it all began at Christmas two years ago, when my daughter was four years old.
好吧，这一切都始于两年前的圣诞节，当时我女儿四岁。
And it was the first time that she had ever asked about what did this holiday mean.
她还是第一次问这个节日意味着什么。
And so I explained to her that this was celebrating the birth of Jesus.
所以我向她解释说这是庆祝耶稣的诞生。
And she wanted to know more about that.
她想了解更多。
And we went out and bought a kid's Bible and had these readings at night.
我们出去买了一本儿童圣经，并在晚上阅读这些内容。
She loved them, wanted to know everything about Jesus.
她爱他们，想了解关于耶稣的一切。
So we read a lot about his birth and about his teaching, and she would ask constantly what that phrase was.
所以我们读了很多关于他的出生和他的教导的内容，她会不断地问那句话是什么。
And I would explain to her that it was "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." And we would talk about those old words and what that all meant, you know?
我会向她解释，那就是“己所不欲，勿施于人”。我们会谈论那些古老的词语以及它们的含义，你知道吗？
And then one day, we were driving past a big church, and out front was an enormous crucifix.
然后有一天，我们开车经过一座大教堂，前面有一个巨大的十字架。
She said, "Who is that?" And I guess I'd never really told that part of the story.
她说：“那是谁？”我想我从来没有真正讲过这部分故事。
So I had this sort of "Yeah, oh, well, that's Jesus.
所以我有这样的想法：“是的，哦，好吧，那是耶稣。
And I forgot to tell you the ending.
我忘了告诉你结局。
Yeah, well, he ran afoul of the Roman government." This message that he had was so radical and unnerving to the prevailing authorities of the time that they had to kill him.
是的，好吧，他与罗马政府发生了冲突。”他所传达的信息对于当时的当权者来说是如此激进和令人不安，以至于他们不得不杀死他。
They came to the conclusion that he would have to die.
他们得出的结论是他必须死。
That message was too troublesome.
那个消息太麻烦了。
It was about a month later after that Christmas.
那是圣诞节后大约一个月后。
We'd gone through the whole story of what Christmas meant, and it was mid-January.
我们已经了解了圣诞节的全部意义，那是一月中旬。
And her preschool celebrates the same holidays as the local schools.
她的幼儿园和当地学校庆祝同样的假期。
So Martin Luther King Day was off.
于是马丁·路德·金纪念日就结束了。
So I knocked off work that day, and I decided we'd play and I'd take her out to lunch.
所以那天我下班了，我决定我们去玩，然后我带她出去吃午饭。
And we were sitting in there, and right on the table where we happened to plop down was the art section of the local newspaper.
我们坐在那儿，我们碰巧坐下的桌子上就是当地报纸的艺术版。
And there, big as life, was a huge drawing by a 10-year-old kid in the local schools of Martin Luther King.
那里有一幅巨大的画，是马丁·路德·金当地学校里一名 10 岁孩子的画作。
And she said, "Who's that?" And I said, "Well, as it happens, that's Martin Luther King.
她说：“那是谁？”我说：“嗯，碰巧那是马丁·路德·金。
And he's why you're not in school today.
这就是你今天没去学校的原因。
So we're celebrating his birthday.
所以我们要庆祝他的生日。
This is the day we celebrate his life." And she said, "So who was he?" And I said, "Well, he was a preacher." And she looks up at me and goes, "For Jesus?" And I said, "Yeah.
这是我们庆祝他一生的日子。”她说：“那他是谁？”我说：“嗯，他是一名传教士。”她抬头看着我，问道：“为了耶稣？”我说：“是的。
Yeah, actually, he was.
是的，事实上，他是。
But there was another thing that he was really famous for, which is that he had a message."
但他真正出名的还有一件事，那就是他有一个信息。”
And you're trying to say this to a four-year-old.
你正试图对一个四岁的孩子说这句话。
This is the first time they ever hear anything, so you're just very careful about how you phrase everything.
这是他们第一次听到任何事情，所以你要非常小心地表达一切。
So I said, "Well, yeah, he was a preacher and he had a message." She said, "What was his message?" And I said, "Well, he said that you should treat everybody the same no matter what they look like."
所以我说，“嗯，是的，他是一位传教士，他有一个信息。”她说：“他的信息是什么？”我说：“嗯，他说你应该一视同仁地对待每个人，无论他们长什么样。”
And she thought about that for a minute.
她想了一会儿。
And she said, "Well, that's what Jesus said." And I said, "Yeah, I guess it is.
她说：“嗯，耶稣就是这么说的。”我说：“是的，我想是的。
I never thought of it that way, but yeah." And that is sort of like, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." And she thought for a minute and looked up at me and said, "Did they kill him too?"
我从来没有这样想过，但是是的。”这有点像“己所不欲，勿施于人”。她想了一会儿，抬头看着我说：“他们也杀了他吗？”
Act 2, "Werewolves in their Youth." In this act, we have this example of kids thinking like kids.
第二幕，“青年时期的狼人”。在这一幕中，我们有一个孩子像孩子一样思考的例子。
It's an excerpt of a short story by Michael Chabon.
这是迈克尔·查邦 (Michael Chabon) 的短篇小说的节选。
I had known him as a bulldozer, as a samurai, as an android programmed to kill, as Plastic Man and Titanium Man and Matter Eater Lad, as a Buick Electra, as a peterbilt truck, and even for a week as the Mackinaw Bridge.
我认识他是推土机、武士、被编程杀人的机器人、塑料人、钛人和食物小伙子、别克伊莱克特拉、彼得比尔特卡车，甚至在一周的时间里他还认识麦基诺桥。
But it was as a werewolf that Timothy Stokes finally went too far.
但正是作为一个狼人，蒂莫西·斯托克斯最终走得太远了。
I wasn't there when it happened.
事情发生时我不在场。
I was down in the ravine at the edge of the schoolyard, founding a capital for an empire of ants.
我在校园边缘的峡谷里，为蚂蚁帝国建立了首都。
I had just begun to describe to myself and to the ants the complicated rites sacred to the god whose worship I was imposing on them when I heard the first screams from the playground.
当我听到操场上传来第一声尖叫声时，我刚刚开始向自己和蚂蚁描述对我所崇拜的神的复杂仪式。
The girls screamed at Timothy the same way every time he came after them, in unison, and with a trill that sounded almost like delight, as if they were watching the family cat trot past with something bloody in its jaws.
每次蒂莫西追上她们时，女孩们都以同样的方式对着蒂莫西尖叫，齐声，声音听起来几乎像是高兴的颤音，就好像她们正在看着家里的猫小跑过去，嘴里叼着血淋淋的东西。
I scrambled up the side of the ravine and emerged as Timothy, shoulders hunched, arms outstretched, growled realistically and declared that he was hungry for the throats of puny humans.
我爬上峡谷的一侧，出现了蒂莫西，他耸着肩膀，张开双臂，逼真地咆哮着，宣称他渴望吃弱小人类的喉咙。
Timothy said this or something like it every time he turned into a werewolf, and I would not have been too concerned if, in the course of his last transformation he hadn't actually gone and bitten Virginia Bease on the neck.
蒂莫西每次变成狼人时都会说这样的话或类似的话，如果在他最后一次变身的过程中他没有真的去咬弗吉尼亚·比斯的脖子的话，我就不会太担心。
It was common knowledge around school that Virginia's parents had since written a letter to the principal, and that the next time Timothy Stokes hurt somebody he was going to be expelled.
学校里的人都知道，弗吉尼亚的父母已经给校长写了一封信，蒂莫西·斯托克斯下次伤害别人时，他就会被开除。
Timothy was, in our teacher Mrs. Gladfelter's words, "one strike away from an out." And there was a widespread, unarticulated hope among his classmates, their parents, and all of the teachers at Copeland Fork Elementary that one day soon, he would provide the authorities with the excuse they needed to pack him off to special school.
用我们的老师格莱菲尔特夫人的话说，蒂莫西“离出局仅差一球”。他的同学、家长以及科普兰福克小学的所有老师都普遍存在一种不言而喻的希望，希望很快有一天，他能为当局提供一个借口，把他送去特殊学校。
I stood there a while above my little city, watching Timothy pursue a snarling, lupine course along the hopscotch crosses.
我在我的小城市上空站了一会儿，看着蒂莫西沿着跳房子的十字架追寻着咆哮的羽扇豆路线。
I knew that someone ought to do something to calm him down, but I was the only one in our school who could have any reason to want to save Timothy Stokes from expulsion.
我知道应该有人做点什么让他平静下来，但我是我们学校里唯一一个有理由想要让蒂莫西·斯托克斯免于被开除的人。
And I hated him with all my heart.
我全心全意地恨他。
"I've been cursed for 300 years," he declaimed.
“我已经被诅咒了 300 年，”他大声说道。
He was wearing a standard uniform of white dungarees and a plain white undershirt, even though it was a chilly afternoon in October and all the rest of us had long since been bundled up for autumn in corduroy and down.
他穿着标准的白色工装裤和纯白色汗衫，尽管那是十月的一个寒冷的下午，而我们其他人早已穿上灯芯绒和羽绒服迎接秋天的到来。
"I have been cursed to stalk the night through all eternity," he went on.
“我被诅咒要永远跟踪黑夜，”他继续说道。
"I've been searching for prey as lovely as you!"
“我一直在寻找像你一样可爱的猎物！”
He lunged toward the nearest wall of the cage of girls around him.
他冲向周围最近的女孩笼子墙。
The girls peeled away from him, as though sprayed with a hose, bumped shoulders, clung shrieking to each other's sleeves.
女孩们从他身边挣脱开来，就像被软管喷射一样，撞着肩膀，尖叫着互相抓住对方的袖子。
Some of them were singing the song we sang about Timothy Stokes.
他们中的一些人正在唱我们唱的关于蒂莫西·斯托克斯的歌曲。
"Timothy Stokes, Timothy Stokes, you're going to the home for crazy folks." And the one singing the loudest was Virginia Bease herself, in her furry black coat and her bright red tights.
“蒂莫西·斯托克斯，蒂莫西·斯托克斯，你要去疯子之家。”唱得最大声的是维吉尼亚·比斯本人，她穿着毛茸茸的黑色外套和鲜红色的紧身衣。
Virginia had blond hair, and she was the only girl in the fifth grade with pierced ears and painted fingernails.
弗吉尼亚有一头金发，她是五年级唯一一个打耳洞、涂指甲的女孩。
And Timothy Stokes was in love with her.
蒂莫西·斯托克斯爱上了她。
I knew this, because the Stokeses lived next door to us and I was privy to all kinds of secrets about Timothy that had absolutely no desire to know.
我知道这一点，因为斯托克斯一家住在我们隔壁，而我知道有关蒂莫西的各种秘密，而我绝对不想知道。
I forbade myself, with an almost religious severity, to show Timothy any kindness or regard.
我几乎以宗教般的严厉态度禁止自己向蒂莫西表示任何善意或尊重。
I would never let him sit beside me at lunch or in class.
我永远不会让他在午餐或上课时坐在我旁边。
And if he tried to talk to me on the playground, I ignored him.
如果他试图在操场上和我说话，我就会忽略他。
It was bad enough that I had to live next door to him.
这已经够糟糕了，我不得不住在他隔壁。
It was toward Virginia that Timothy now advanced, a rattling growl in his throat.
蒂莫西现在正朝弗吉尼亚前进，喉咙里发出嘎嘎的咆哮。
She drew back behind her girlfriends, and their screaming now grew less melodious, less purely formal.
她退到了女朋友们身后，她们的尖叫声变得不再那么悦耳，也不再那么纯粹正式。
Timothy crouched down on all fours.
蒂莫西四肢着地蹲下。
He rolled his wild white eyes and took a last look around him.
他转动着狂野的白眼，最后看了一眼四周。
That was when he saw me, halfway across the yellow distance of the soccer field.
就在那时，他在足球场黄色距离的中间看到了我。
He was looking at me, I thought, as though he hoped I might have something I wanted to tell him.
我想，他看着我，好像希望我有什么话想告诉他。
Instantly, I dropped flat on my belly, my heart pounding the way it did when I was spotted trying to spy on a baseball game or a birthday party.
我立即趴在地上，心脏剧烈跳动，就像有人发现我试图监视棒球比赛或生日聚会时一样。
I slid down into the ravine backward.
我向后滑入峡谷。
At first, I could hear the girls shouting for Mrs. Gladfelter.
起初，我能听到女孩们喊着格拉德菲尔特夫人。
And then I heard Mrs. Gladfelter herself sounding very angry.
然后我听到格拉德菲尔特夫人本人听起来非常生气。
And the bell sounded the end of recess and everything got very quiet, but I just stayed there in the ravine.
课间结束的铃声响起，一切都变得非常安静，但我只是呆在山沟里。
I told myself that I didn't feel sorry at all for stupid old Timothy Stokes.
我告诉自己，我一点也不为愚蠢的老蒂莫西·斯托克斯感到难过。
But then I would remember the confused look in his eyes as I had abandoned him to his fate, to all the unimaginable things that would be done to him in the fabulous corridors of the special school.
但后来我会记得他眼中困惑的表情，因为我把他抛弃在他的命运中，抛弃了在特殊学校美妙的走廊里对他所做的所有难以想象的事情。
I kept recalling something that I had heard Timothy's mother say to mine just a couple of days earlier.
我不断回想起几天前我听到蒂莫西的母亲对我说的话。
"You know," Althea Stokes had told my mother, in that big, sad, donkey voice of hers, "Your little Paul is Timothy's only friend." I decided to spend the afternoon in the ravine.
“你知道，”阿尔西娅·斯托克斯用她那种大而悲伤的驴子声音告诉我母亲，“你的小保罗是蒂莫西唯一的朋友。”我决定在峡谷里度过一个下午。
The sun started down behind the embankment, and the moon, rising early, emerged from the rooftops of the houses somebody was putting up in front of the school.
太阳从堤坝后面落下，月亮早早地升起，从学校前面搭建的房屋的屋顶上露出来。
The moon, I noticed, was not quite full.
我注意到，月亮还没有完全满。
I didn't hear the scrape of footsteps until they were just above my head.
我没有听到脚步声，直到它们就在我头顶上方。
"Paul," said Mrs. Gladfelter, leaning over the lip of the ravine, hands against her thighs.
“保罗，”格拉德菲尔特太太靠在峡谷边缘，双手放在大腿上说道。
"Paul Covell, what on earth are you doing out here?" "Nothing," I said.
“保罗·科维尔，你到底在这儿做什么？” “没什么，”我说。
"I didn't hear the bell." "Paul," she said.
“我没有听到铃声。” “保罗，”她说。
"Now, listen to me Paul.
“现在，听我说，保罗。
I need your help."
我需要你的帮助。”
"With what?" I didn't think she looked angry, but her face was upside down and it was hard to tell.
“用什么？”我没觉得她看起来生气，但她的脸倒挂着，很难看。
"With Timothy, Paul.
“和提摩太、保罗。
I guess he's just very wound up right now.
我猜他现在很伤心。
He's pretending he's a werewolf today, and even though that's fine and we all know how Timothy is sometimes, we have serious things to discuss with him, and we'd like him to stop pretending for just a little while."
他今天假装自己是狼人，尽管这很好，而且我们都知道蒂莫西有时是什么样子，但我们有严肃的事情要与他讨论，我们希望他暂时停止假装。”
"What if he isn't pretending?" I said.
“如果他不假装呢？”我说。
"What if he really is a werewolf?" "Maybe he is, Paul, but if you would just come inside and talk to him for a little bit, I think we might be able to persuade him to change back into Timothy.
“如果他真的是狼人怎么办？” “也许他是，保罗，但如果你进来和他聊一会儿，我想我们也许能够说服他变回蒂莫西。
You're his friend, Paul.
你是他的朋友，保罗。
I asked him if he'd like to talk to you and he said yes." "I'm not his friend, Mrs. Gladfelter.
我问他是否愿意和你谈谈，他说愿意。” “我不是他的朋友，格莱菲尔特夫人。
I swear to God, I can't do anything."
我向上帝发誓，我什么也做不了。”
"Paul, Timothy is in trouble.
“保罗，提摩太有麻烦了。
He needs your help, and I need your help too.
他需要你的帮助，我也需要你的帮助。
Now, if you come right this minute and get up out of that dirt, then I'll forget that you didn't come in from recess.
现在，如果你这一刻过来并从泥土中站起来，那么我就会忘记你不是从课间休息回来的。
If you don't come back inside, I'll have to speak to your mother."
如果你不回来的话，我就得跟你妈妈谈谈了。”
She held out her hand.
她伸出了手。
"Now, come on, Paul.
“现在，来吧，保罗。
Please." So I took her hand and let her pull me out of the ravine and across the deserted playground, aware that in doing so I was merely proving the unspoken corollary that my mother had left hanging the other morning in the air between her and Mrs. Stokes.
求你了。”于是我拉着她的手，让她把我拉出峡谷，穿过荒凉的操场，我意识到，我这样做只是证明了母亲那天早上在她和斯托克斯太太之间悬而未决的不言而喻的推论。
There was a song about me too, I'm afraid, a popular little number that went, "What's that smello?
恐怕还有一首关于我的歌，一首流行的小曲子，歌词是：“那是什么味道？
Paul Covello.
保罗·科维罗.
He's a big, fat, hippo jell-o.
他是一只又大又胖的河马果冻。
He's a snoop.
他是个窥探者。
He smells like poop.
他闻起来像便便。
He smells like tomato beef alphabet soup." Timothy Stokes, I knew, as I followed Mrs. Gladfelter down the long, silent hallway to the office, hating him more and more with each step, was my only friend.
他闻起来像番茄牛肉字母汤。”当我跟着格拉德菲尔特太太沿着漫长而寂静的走廊走向办公室时，我知道蒂莫西·斯托克斯是我唯一的朋友，每走一步都越来越恨他。
Timothy was sitting in a corner of the office, trapped in an orange vinyl arm chair.
蒂莫西坐在办公室的一角，坐在一张橙色乙烯基扶手椅上。
There was a Roman numeral three scratched into his left cheek, and his brilliant white shirt and trousers were patterned with a camouflage of grass, and dirt, and asphalt.
他的左脸颊上刻着一个罗马数字“三”，他的亮白色衬衫和裤子上印有草、泥土和沥青的迷彩图案。
"Well, now, Timothy," Mrs. Gladfelter took me by the shoulders and maneuvered me around her.
“好吧，蒂莫西，”格莱菲尔特夫人抓住我的肩膀，把我推到她身边。
"Look who I found." "Hey, Timothy," I said.
“看看我找到谁了。” “嘿，蒂莫西，”我说。
Timothy didn't look up.
蒂莫西没有抬头。
Mrs. Gladfelter gave me a gentle push toward him in the small of my back.
格拉德费尔特夫人轻轻地把我的腰推向他。
"Why don't you sit down, Paul?" "No!" I didn't want to be left alone with Timothy.
“保罗，你为什么不坐下？” “不！”我不想和蒂莫西单独呆在一起。
Not because I was afraid of him, but because I was afraid that somebody would come into the office and see us sitting there, two matching rejects in matching orange chairs.
不是因为我害怕他，而是因为我害怕有人走进办公室，看到我们坐在那里，两个相配的拒绝者坐在相配的橙色椅子上。
"That's enough now, Paul," said Mr. Buterbaugh, the principal, is friendly smile looking more false than usual.
“现在够了，保罗，”校长布特鲍先生说道，他友好的微笑看起来比平时更加虚假。
"Sit down."
“坐下吧。”
"It's all right," said Mrs. Gladfelter.
“没关系，”格莱菲尔特夫人说。
"You see what you can do about helping Timothy turn back into Timothy.
“你知道你能做些什么来帮助蒂莫西变回蒂莫西。
We're just going to give you a little privacy." She followed Mr. Buterbaugh into his office and then poked her head back around the door.
我们只是想给你一点隐私。”她跟着巴特鲍先生走进他的办公室，然后把头从门后探了出来。
"I'm going to leave this door open in case you need us, all right?"
“我会让这扇门开着，以防万一你需要我们，好吗？”
There were three chairs next to Timothy's.
蒂莫西的旁边有三把椅子。
I took the farthest and showed him my back, so that anyone passing by the windows of the office would not be able to conclude that he and I were engaged in any sort of conversation at all.
我走得最远，向他展示了我的背影，这样任何经过办公室窗户的人都无法断定我和他正在进行任何形式的谈话。
"Are you expelled?" I said.
“你被开除了吗？”我说。
There was no reply.
没有回复。
"Are you, Timothy?"
“你是吗，蒂莫西？”
Again, he said nothing.
他再次一言不发。
And I couldn't stop myself from turning around to look at him.
而我却无法阻止自己转过头来看着他。
"Timothy, are you expelled?" "I'm not Timothy, professor," said Timothy, gravely but not without a certain air of satisfaction.
“蒂莫西，你被开除了吗？” “我不是蒂莫西，教授。”蒂莫西严肃地说，但又不乏满足的神情。
"I'm afraid your precious antidote didn't work."
“你那珍贵的解药恐怕不起作用了。”
"Come on, Timothy," I said.
“来吧，蒂莫西，”我说。
"Cut it out.
“别说了。
The moon's not even full today." Now he turned toward me.
今天月亮还没有满。”现在他转向我。
"Where were you?" he said.
“你在哪儿？”他说。
"I was looking for you." "I was in the ditch." "With the ants?" I nodded.
“我正在找你。” “我在沟里。” “和蚂蚁一起？”我点点头。
"I heard you talking to them before." "So?" "So are you Ant-Man?" "No, dummy." "Why not?" "Because I'm not anybody.
“我之前听到你和他们说话。” “所以呢？” “那你是蚁人吗？” “不，笨蛋。” “为什么不呢？” “因为我不是任何人。
You're not anybody either." We fell silent for a while and just sat there, not looking at each other, kicking at the legs of our chairs.
你也不是任何人。”我们沉默了一会儿，只是坐在那儿，没有看对方，踢着椅子腿。
I could hear Mrs. Gladfelter and Mr. Buterbaugh talking softly in his office.
我能听到格拉德菲尔特夫人和巴特鲍先生在他的办公室里轻声交谈。
Mr. Buterbaugh called her "Elizabeth."
布特鲍先生称她为“伊丽莎白”。
The telephone rang.
电话响了。
A light flashed twice on the secretary's phone, then held steady.
秘书手机上的灯闪了两下，然后就稳定下来了。
"Thanks for calling back, Dr. Schachter," I heard Mr. Buterbaugh say, "Yes, I'm afraid so." "I went to see Dr. Schachter a couple of times," I said.
“谢谢你回电，沙克特博士，”我听到巴特鲍先生说，“是的，恐怕是这样。” “我去看了沙赫特医生几次，”我说。
He had micronauts and the fembots.
他有微型机器人和女性机器人。
"He has Stretch Armstrong too," said Timothy.
“他也有弹力阿姆斯特朗，”蒂莫西说。
"I know." "Why did you go see him?" Timothy said.
“我知道。” “你为什么去看他？”蒂莫西说。
"Did your mother make you?" "Yeah," I said.
“是你妈妈让你生的吗？” “是的，”我说。
"How come?" "I don't know.
“怎么会呢？” “我不知道。
She said I was having problems with my anger.
她说我的愤怒有问题。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I guess I was mad about my dad and things."
我想我对我父亲之类的事情很生气。”
"He had to go to jail," Timothy said, "Your dad." "Just for one night." "How come?" "He had too much to drink," I said.
“他必须进监狱，”蒂莫西说，“你爸爸。” “就住一晚。” “怎么会呢？” “他喝太多了，”我说。
"Did you visit him in jail?" Timothy said.
“你去监狱探望过他吗？”蒂莫西说。
"No, stupid.
“不，笨蛋。
God, you belong in special school, Timothy.
天啊，你属于特殊学校，蒂莫西。
I hope they make you eat special food and wear a special helmet or something."
我希望他们让你吃特殊的食物，戴特殊的头盔什么的。”
I heard the distant slam of the school's front door, and then a pair of hard shoes knocking along the hall.
我听到远处学校前门的关门声，然后是一双硬鞋沿着走廊敲击的声音。
"Here comes your mother," I said.
“你妈妈来了，”我说。
"What kind of special helmet?" said Timothy.
“什么样的特殊头盔？”蒂莫西说。
"Ant-Man wears a helmet."
“蚁人戴着头盔。”
Mrs. Stokes entered the office.
斯托克斯夫人走进办公室。
She was a tall, thin woman, much older than my mother, with long, gray hair and red, veiny hands.
她是个又高又瘦的女人，比我母亲年长很多，有着长长的灰白头发和红红的、布满青筋的手。
Every morning, she made Timothy pancakes for his breakfast, which sounded OK until you found out that she put things in them like carrots and leftover pieces of corn.
每天早上，她都会为他做蒂莫西煎饼作为早餐，这听起来不错，直到你发现她在里面放了一些东西，比如胡萝卜和剩下的玉米片。
"Oh, hello, Paul," she said, in her Eeyore voice.
“哦，你好，保罗，”她用屹耳的声音说道。
"Mrs. Stokes," said Mrs. Gladfelter, coming out of the principal's office.
“夫人。斯托克斯，”格拉德菲尔特夫人从校长办公室出来说道。
"It's been kind of a long afternoon for Timothy, I'm afraid." "How is Virginia?" said Mrs. Stokes.
“恐怕对蒂莫西来说，这是一个漫长的下午。” “弗吉尼亚怎么样？”斯托克斯太太说。
She still hadn't looked at Timothy.
她仍然没有看蒂莫西。
"Oh, she'll be fine," Mr. Buterbaugh said.
“哦，她会没事的，”巴特鲍先生说。
"Just a little shaken up.
“只是有点动摇了。
We sent her home early.
我们提前送她回家了。
Of course," he added, "Her parents are going to want to speak to you."
当然，”他补充道，“她的父母会想和你谈谈。”
"Of course," said Mrs. Stokes.
“当然，”斯托克斯太太说。
"I'm ready to do whatever you think would be best for Timothy." "I'm not Timothy," said Timothy.
“我已经准备好做任何你认为对蒂莫西最有利的事情。” “我不是蒂莫西，”蒂莫西说。
"Oh please, Timmy, stop this nonsense for once." "I'm cursed." He leaned over and brought his face very close to mine.
“噢，蒂米，请停止这种胡言乱语吧。” “我被诅咒了。”他倾身过来，把脸离我很近。
"Tell them about the curse, professor."
“教授，告诉他们诅咒的事。”
I looked at Timothy, and for the first time saw that a thin, dark down of wolfish hair had grown upon his cheek.
我看着蒂莫西，第一次看到他的脸颊上长出了一层又薄又黑的狼毛。
Then I looked at Mr. Buterbaugh and found that he was watching me with an air of earnest expectancy, as though he honestly thought there might be an eternal black magical curse on Timothy and was more than willing to listen to anything I might have to say on the subject.
然后我看着布特鲍先生，发现他正以一种热切期待的神情看着我，就好像他真诚地认为蒂莫西身上可能有一个永恒的黑色魔法诅咒，并且非常愿意听我就这个话题可能要说的任何话。
I shrugged.
我耸耸肩。
"Are you going to make him go to special school?" I said.
“你要送他去特殊学校吗？”我说。
"All right, Paul.
“好吧，保罗。
Thank you," said Mrs. Gladfelter.
谢谢你，”格拉德菲尔特夫人说。
"You may go back to class now." "See you later, Timothy," I said.
“你现在可以回去上课了。” “再见，蒂莫西，”我说。
He didn't answer me.
他没有回答我。
He had started to growl again.
他又开始咆哮了。
As I followed the secretary out of the office, I looked back and saw Mr. Buterbaugh, and Mrs. Gladfelter, and poor old Mrs. Stokes standing in a hopeless circle around Timothy.
当我跟着秘书走出办公室时，我回头看到布特鲍先生、格拉德费尔特夫人和可怜的斯托克斯老太太，绝望地围着蒂莫西站成一圈。
I thought for a second, and then I turned back toward them and raised an imaginary rifle to my shoulder.
我想了一会儿，然后转身面向他们，将一支想象中的步枪举到肩上。
"This is a dart gun," I announced.
“这是一把飞镖枪，”我宣布。
Everyone looked at me, but I was talking to Timothy now.
每个人都看着我，但我现在正在和蒂莫西说话。
I was almost, but not quite embarrassed.
我几乎感到尴尬，但还没有完全尴尬。
"It's filled with darts of my special antidote.
“里面装满了我的特殊解毒剂。
And I made it stronger than it used to be, and it's going to work this time.
我让它比以前更强大，这次会起作用的。
And also, there's a tranquilizer mixed in."
而且，里面还混有镇静剂。”
Timothy looked up and bared his teeth at me.
蒂莫西抬起头，对我露出牙齿。
And I took aim right between his eyes.
我瞄准了他的眼睛之间。
I jerked my hands twice and went "Foop, foop!" Timothy's head snapped back, and his eyelids fluttered.
我猛地甩了两下手，“噗，噗！”蒂莫西的头猛地向后一仰，眼皮颤抖着。
He shook himself all over.
他全身颤抖起来。
He swallowed once, then he held his hands out before him as if wondering at their hairless pallor.
他咽了一口口水，然后伸出双手，仿佛对它们无毛的苍白感到惊讶。
"It seems to have worked," he said, his voice cool, and reasonable, and fine.
“看来这很有效，”他说道，声音冷静、合理、很好。
Anyone could see he was still playing his endless game, but all the grown-ups, Mr. Buterbaugh in particular, looked very pleased with both of us.
任何人都可以看出他还在玩没完没了的游戏，但所有的大人，尤其是巴特鲍先生，看起来对我们俩都很满意。
"Thank you very much, Paul," he said.
“非常感谢你，保罗，”他说。
"I'm not Paul," I said.
“我不是保罗，”我说。
Everybody laughed but Timothy Stokes.
除了蒂莫西·斯托克斯之外，每个人都笑了。
Michael Chabon, reading an excerpt from his short story "Werewolves in Their Youth." You can find it in the collection of short stories of the same name.
迈克尔·查邦（Michael Chabon）正在朗读他的短篇小说《青春期的狼人》的节选。您可以在同名短篇小说集中找到它。
His latest novel just came out.
他的最新小说刚刚出版。
It's called "Moonglow." Coming up, kids talking kid talk, adults not understanding, but you will, as our special "Kids say the Darndest Things" edition of our program continues in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
它的名字叫“月光”。即将到来，孩子们说孩子们说的话，成年人听不懂，但你会的，因为我们的节目特别的“孩子们说最可怕的事情”版本在一分钟后从芝加哥公共广播电台继续，当我们的节目继续时。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose some theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，每周我们的节目都会选择一些主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's program, Kid Logic.
今天的节目是《儿童逻辑》。
We wanted an hour filled with stories in which kids employ kid thinking, especially the kid thinking that is perfectly logical but completely wrongheaded.
我们想要一个小时充满故事，在这些故事中孩子们运用孩子的思维，尤其是完全合乎逻辑但完全错误的孩子思维。
And we've arrived at Act 3 of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第三幕。
Act 3, "The Game Ain't Over till the Fatso Man Sings."
第三幕，“直到胖子唱歌，游戏才结束。”
When little kids talk about a crush or love, are they talking about more or less the same thing that adults mean by those words?
当小孩子谈论迷恋或爱情时，他们谈论的内容是否与成年人的意思大致相同？
Howie Chackowicz remembers how he thought about love in grade school.
豪伊·查科维奇 (Howie Chackowicz) 记得他在小学时如何看待爱情。
He wanted girls to like him, but they never seemed to.
他希望女孩们喜欢他，但她们似乎从来没有喜欢过他。
Here he is.
他在这里。
Looking back on it, I think part of the problem was how I thought about love as a kid.
回想起来，我认为部分问题在于我小时候对爱情的看法。
I had a few ideas about how you get someone to love you that, in retrospect, weren't particularly helpful to me.
关于如何让别人爱你，我有一些想法，但现在回想起来，这些想法对我来说并不是特别有帮助。
First, I thought that if they could see me sleeping, they would immediately fall for me.
首先，我想如果他们看到我睡觉，他们就会立刻爱上我。
When I went to sleep each night, I would consciously try to sleep in a cute way, just in case the girls would peep on me.
每天晚上睡觉的时候，我都会有意识地睡得可爱一些，生怕女孩们偷看我。
I'd roll into a fetal ball a kitten and scrunch my head into my pillow, hands under my head.
我会把小猫滚成一个胎儿球，把头埋进枕头里，双手放在头下。
I imagined that all the popular girls, intent on cruelly pranking me, on a ladder and climbed up to my bedroom window.
我想象着那些受欢迎的女孩，一心要残酷地恶作剧我，用梯子爬到我卧室的窗户上。
But instead of painting fatso or whatever on my window as planned, their collective hearts would melt as they saw me sleeping like a babe, an angel, buried snugly under my blankets.
但他们并没有按计划在我的窗户上画胖子或其他什么东西，而是当他们看到我像婴儿、天使一样紧紧地埋在毯子下睡着时，他们集体的心都融化了。
I guess there was some crossover of a kid's knowledge of what was endearing to adults applied to romance.
我猜想，孩子们对成年人喜爱的东西的了解与浪漫的知识有一些交叉。
My second theory was that they'd fall in love with me if they can see me reading aloud.
我的第二个理论是，如果他们能看到我大声朗读，他们就会爱上我。
This conclusion came out of my experience with nieces and nephews, who'd fawn all over me when I would read to them.
这个结论是根据我与侄女和侄子相处的经历得出的，当我读书给他们听时，他们对我阿谀奉承。
By age 6, I was already an uncle, and I felt this lent me a certain maturity.
六岁时，我已经当了叔叔，我觉得这让我成熟了一些。
Often, at recess time, I'd go to the back of the classroom and read from a selection of kids books.
通常，在课间休息的时候，我会去教室后面阅读精选的儿童书籍。
All the kids would gather around in a circle and I'd pore through books like "Percy the Rose-eating Donkey," effecting the voices of the different characters and speaking with a preacher's sweaty charisma.
所有的孩子都会围成一圈，我会仔细阅读《吃玫瑰的驴珀西》之类的书，影响不同角色的声音，并以传教士出汗的魅力说话。
I'm not sure why, but everyone in my class seemed to love the way I hammed it up.
我不知道为什么，但班上的每个人似乎都喜欢我的表现方式。
The only problem with this was, the girls in class ended up treating me like their uncle.
唯一的问题是，班上的女孩们最终把我当作她们的叔叔一样。
They'd call me Uncle Howie and talk to me in baby talk.
他们会叫我豪伊叔叔，用儿语跟我说话。
"Wead me a story, Uncle Howie." And so on.
“给我讲个故事吧，豪伊叔叔。”等等。
Don't get me wrong.
别误会我的意思。
I loved the attention, but I wanted love, not wuv.
我喜欢这种关注，但我想要的是爱，而不是 wuv。
So I had all these ideas about love.
所以我对爱有了所有这些想法。
And of all the girls I knew, my theories were most intensely targeted at one girl, the most popular girl in school, Karen.
在我认识的所有女孩中，我的理论最强烈地针对一个女孩，学校里最受欢迎的女孩，凯伦。
She became my most serious crush.
她成了我最深爱的人。
I carried a torch for Karen from grade 1 to grade 6.
从一年级到六年级，我都为凯伦传递着火炬。
Though Karen didn't seem to like me much, one thing I'd learned about love on TV was that if one was sincere, love can break all boundaries.
虽然凯伦似乎不太喜欢我，但我在电视上学到的关于爱情的一件事是，如果一个人真诚，爱情可以打破所有界限。
I believed that there would come a moment where I'd speak the words "I love you" to Karen with such tenderness and tears that it would break her heart, and she would cry too and confess her love.
我相信有一天我会用如此温柔和泪水对凯伦说出“我爱你”这三个字，让她心碎，而她也会哭泣并表白她的爱。
I would allow one brave tear to travel down my cheek.
我会让一颗勇敢的泪水从我的脸颊上流下来。
Yeah.
是的。
Howie Chackowicz And Jonathan [?
豪伊·查科维奇和乔纳森 [？
is cute.
很可爱。
?]
？]
Now, years later, I'm friends with Karen, actual friends with both her and her husband Alan.
多年后的现在，我和凯伦成了朋友，是她和她丈夫艾伦真正的朋友。
I even worked for him for a while.
我什至为他工作过一段时间。
Karen and I have talked before about our elementary school days, usually steering the conversation towards how mean she was to me.
凯伦和我之前曾谈论过我们的小学时光，通常会把话题引向她对我有多刻薄。
But I've never really spoken with her about puppy love.
但我从来没有真正和她谈论过早恋。
I wanted to know what she remembered, whether she knew I even had a crush on her at all.
我想知道她还记得什么，她是否知道我迷恋她。
Who were your interests?
你对谁感兴趣？
We'll go year by year.
我们会年复一年地走下去。
Keith, definitely, love interest.
基思，毫无疑问，热爱兴趣。
Barry Seller, the big one, the big one.
巴里·塞勒，大佬，大佬。
Notice who she doesn't mention.
注意她没有提到谁。
Even though it was so far in the past, a crush is still such an awkward thing to talk about.
虽然已经过去很久了，但是谈起暗恋还是一件很尴尬的事情。
When I finally did tell her about how I felt about her when we were kids, I mumbled my way through it, backpedaling all over the place.
当我最终告诉她我们小时候我对她的感受时，我含糊其辞，到处倒退。
I even forgot to actually point the mic at her.
我什至忘了把麦克风指向她。
When I was in elementary school, you were a big crush.
当我还在上小学的时候，你就很迷恋我。
I didn't even know that.
我什至不知道这一点。
I thought I was just responsible for tormenting you.
我以为我只是对折磨你负责。
I didn't realize that there was a crush involved.
我没有意识到其中涉及暗恋。
Maybe at the time I knew, but I had no clue, actually, that you liked me, when I think back on it now.
也许当时我就知道了，但现在回想起来，我其实并不知道你喜欢我。
One time in the field, Keith told me to tackle you.
有一次在野外，基思让我去对付你。
He said if you tackle her, she'll like you, and then you'll be popular.
他说如果你对付她，她就会喜欢你，然后你就会受欢迎。
That is so funny.
那太有趣了。
Howie Chackowicz This is the thing.
豪伊·查科维奇 这就是问题所在。
You know what?
你知道吗？
That's very good advice, I think.
我认为这是非常好的建议。
It's very bad advice.
这是非常糟糕的建议。
I don't want to break your leg.
我不想打断你的腿。
Basically, what happened was, I was standing off to the sidelines.
基本上，发生的事情是，我站在一旁。
I wasn't often picked to play.
我不经常被选中参加比赛。
This was a coed game, and it seemed very fun.
这是一款男女同校的游戏，看起来非常有趣。
And Keith said, "I'm going to throw Karen the ball." And he you know he couldn't pronounce his R's.
基思说：“我要把球扔给凯伦。”你知道他发不出 R 的音。
He goes, "You tackle her, Howard.
他说道：“霍华德，你来对付她。
Tackle her.
对付她。
Tackle her hard, and you'll be popular.
用力对付她，你就会受欢迎。
And then everyone will like you.
然后每个人都会喜欢你。
I'm like, "OK, I'm going to do it." And I remember you were running, the sun was shining off, and your hair's bouncing, and you caught the ball, and I just-- I don't know what came over me.
我想，“好吧，我会这么做的。”我记得你在奔跑，阳光明媚，你的头发在弹跳，你接住了球，我只是——我不知道我发生了什么。
I just remember thinking that's what I had to do, was I had to tackle you.
我只记得我当时想那就是我必须做的，我必须对付你。
And I tackled you really hard.
我真的很努力地对付你。
You're on the ground and you're holding your leg.
你躺在地上，并握住你的腿。
Now, any kind of logic would have dictated that that's not the way to get the girl you like.
现在，任何逻辑都会表明这不是得到你喜欢的女孩的方法。
Yeah, but a lot of times the way young kids react or show affection is through physical-- like I was telling you before that I wrestled with Barry, because you just want to be close.
是的，但很多时候，小孩子的反应或表达爱意的方式是通过身体——就像我之前告诉过你的，我和巴里摔跤，因为你只是想靠近。
This is not how she felt about it at the time.
她当时的感受可不是这样的。
Because I felt the harder I tackled her, the more popular I'd be.
因为我觉得我越用力对付她，我就越受欢迎。
I took her down like it was prison football.
我像踢监狱足球一样打倒了她。
The game came to an immediate end, everyone circling Karen's writhing body, the football near her lay totally still.
比赛立即结束，所有人围着凯伦扭动的身体，她身边的足球完全静止了。
She was holding her leg, looking up at me saying, "You tub of lard, you broke my leg!"
她抱着腿，抬头看着我说：“你这桶猪油，你把我的腿摔断了！”
Karen doesn't remember any of this.
凯伦不记得这些了。
She doesn't remember how she then jumped up, got four or five of her girlfriends in a huddle, and miraculously choreographed an impromptu chorus line of "Fatso Man" to the tune of the Village People's "Macho Man."
她不记得自己是如何跳起来，让四五个女朋友挤在一起，并奇迹般地根据村里人的“猛男”曲调即兴编排了“胖子”副歌。
"Fatso, fatso man.
“胖子，胖子。
I would not like to be a fatso man.
我不想成为一个胖子。
Fatso, fatso man.
胖子，胖子。
I would not like to be a fatso!" And at that point, they all threw their hands up in the air in unison.
我不想当胖子！”就在这时，他们不约而同的举起了双手。
I remember it so perfectly, but then after all, it was my crush.
我记得很清楚，但毕竟那是我的迷恋。
She had no recollection at the time the school photographer called her Daisy Duke and then turned around and called me Boss Hog, nor the fitness day that I beat her in a chariots of fire style race.
她不记得当时学校摄影师叫她黛西·杜克，然后转过身来叫我“猪老板”，也不记得健身日我在火式战车比赛中击败了她。
She didn't even remember the biggest story of them all, our sixth grade graduation dance.
她甚至不记得其中最重要的故事，我们六年级的毕业舞会。
Now, the last dance was "Stairway to Heaven."
现在，最后一支舞是《天国的阶梯》。
Mhm.
嗯。
Howie Chackowicz Right.
豪伊·查科维奇 对。
Now, I went to the dance to dance with you.
现在，我去舞会和你一起跳舞。
Aw.
噢。
Howie Chackowicz But I couldn't, because as I was walking, a line of people walked by and blocked me, and then there was a split second, but then you were in the arms of a grade seven.
Howie Chackowicz 但我不能，因为当我走着的时候，一排人走过并挡住了我，然后有一瞬间，你就在一个七年级的怀里了。
Really?
真的吗？
What was a grade seven doing in there?
七年级的人在那里做什么？
They crashed our grade six graduation dance.
他们破坏了我们六年级的毕业舞会。
Who was it?
是谁？
Howie Chackowicz I don't know who he was.
豪伊·查科维奇 我不知道他是谁。
He was tall and thin.
他又高又瘦。
He had longish hair, and he came through the back door of the gym.
他有一头长发，从健身房的后门进来。
You don't remember the last dance?
你不记得最后一支舞了吗？
No. Howie Chackowicz You kissed this gentleman.
不。 Howie Chackowicz 你吻了这位先生。
Did I?
我有吗？
Like a peck or a make-out kiss?
比如轻吻或者亲吻？
I don't think I was making out in grade six.
我不认为我在六年级时就亲热过。
No, by adult standards, it was a peck.
不，按照成人的标准，这是一次啄击。
I'd say by grade six standards, you got laid.
我想说，按照六年级的标准，你已经上床了。
It turns out that Karen remembered exactly one story about me.
事实证明，凯伦准确地记得一个关于我的故事。
Well, my most vivid memory of you is sitting in class, and the teacher asking us to pull out our homework, and you open up your desk and the paper overflowing out of that desk, and you rummaging frantically through the desk, trying to find what homework we were asked to take out and not being able to find it, and our teacher walking up to your desk, and everyone knowing what was coming, because it probably happened two days before, and the teacher just lacing into you, and dumping the contents of your desk on the floor.
好吧，我对你印象最深刻的就是坐在课堂上，老师让我们把作业拿出来，你打开课桌，课桌上满是纸，你在课桌上疯狂地翻找，试图找到我们被要求拿出的作业，却找不到，然后我们的老师走到你的课桌前，每个人都知道接下来会发生什么，因为这可能发生在两天前，老师只是对你施加压力，把课桌上的东西倒在你的桌子上。地板。
Now, I mean, when that happened, did I seem cool, like a bad boy?
现在，我的意思是，当那件事发生时，我看起来很酷，像个坏男孩吗？
No, everyone felt very, very sad for you.
不，每个人都为你感到非常非常难过。
More than anything, I wanted Karen to notice me, but not in that way.
最重要的是，我希望凯伦注意到我，但不是以那种方式。
I think the problem with my theories was that I expected her to fall for me the same way I fell for her, that she would see me from afar, reading to our classmates, sleeping like a little prince.
我认为我的理论的问题在于，我期望她会像我爱上她一样爱上我，她会远远地看到我，给我们的同学读书，像小王子一样睡觉。
I thought that's what it took for someone to fall in love.
我以为这就是一个人坠入爱河所需要的。
I wanted her to think that this was the real me.
我想让她认为这就是真正的我。
I wanted to think it was the real me.
我想认为那是真实的我。
And the truth of it was that the real real me was getting screamed at and having his desk spilled out on the ground each day.
事实是，真正的我每天都会被尖叫，他的桌子掉在地上。
There's a way you can love a girl in grade six that you'll never have again.
有一种方式可以让你爱上一个六年级的女孩，但你再也不会拥有这种方式了。
There's something about kids, or at least the way I was as a kid, that is purely romantic, in the truest love sonneteering sense of the word.
关于孩子，或者至少是我小时候，有一种纯粹浪漫的感觉，从最真实的爱情十四行诗的意义上来说。
Only a year or two later, my theories on the ways love had changed drastically.
仅仅一两年后，我关于爱情方式的理论就发生了巨大的变化。
By seventh grade, I had some spin the bottle sessions under my belt, and I had concluded that instead of dreaming about a true love I couldn't have, I should get a little bit more pragmatic about the whole thing.
到了七年级，我开始了一些旋转瓶子课程，我得出的结论是，我不应该梦想一个我无法拥有的真爱，而应该对整个事情更加务实一点。
One night, after deciding I wanted to have a real girlfriend, I called up identical twin sisters I liked, Darlene and Elizabeth.
一天晚上，在决定要找一个真正的女朋友后，我打电话给我喜欢的同卵双胞胎姐妹达琳和伊丽莎白。
Darlene answered.
达琳回答道。
I told her that I liked her, and I asked her if she'd like to officially go out with me.
我告诉她我喜欢她，并问她是否愿意正式和我约会。
She kindly told me that she only liked me as a friend but she was flattered.
她善意地告诉我，她只是把我当作朋友，但她很受宠若惊。
"No problem," I said.
“没问题，”我说。
"Is Elizabeth home?"
“伊丽莎白在家吗？”
She passed me over to her twin, who I made the same offer to.
她把我交给了她的双胞胎，我也向她提出了同样的要求。
And Elizabeth said "sure," and that was it.
伊丽莎白说“当然”，就这样了。
"They're identical twins.
“他们是同卵双胞胎。
What's the difference," I figured.
有什么区别？”我想道。
We went out for two whole months.
我们出去了整整两个月。
It was great.
太棒了。
Howie Chackowicz.
豪伊·查科维奇。
He's the creator, writer, and artist behind Howie Action Comics.
他是 Howie Action Comics 的创作者、作家和艺术家。
Act Four: When Small Thoughts Meet Big Brains Ira Glass Four, "When Small Thoughts Meet Big Brains." OK, so all this hour we've been talking about kid logic.
第四幕：当小想法遇到大大脑艾拉·格拉斯四号，“当小想法遇到大大脑时”。好吧，这一个小时我们一直在谈论孩子的逻辑。
And sometimes, the incorrect logic of childhood does not get corrected during childhood.
有时，童年时期的错误逻辑并没有在童年时期得到纠正。
It does not get corrected till much, much later, when childhood is long over.
直到很久很久以后，当童年早已结束时，它才得到纠正。
Alex Blumberg explains.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格解释道。
I can reconstruct the events that led me to one of the most embarrassing conversations of my adult life.
我可以回忆起那些导致我成年后最尴尬的谈话之一的事件。
The chain starts back when I was 11 or 12, when I first heard the term Nielsen family.
这家连锁店的历史可以追溯到我 11 或 12 岁的时候，当时我第一次听到尼尔森家族这个词。
I was probably listening to some adults talk.
我可能是在听一些大人说话。
And from their conversation I gathered that networks consulted Nielsen families to find out how popular a television show was.
从他们的谈话中，我了解到网络咨询了尼尔森家庭，以了解电视节目的受欢迎程度。
But that didn't make sense.
但这没有意义。
Why would they only ask people named Nielsen which shows they liked?
为什么他们只问名叫尼尔森的人他们喜欢哪些节目？
I started thinking.
我开始思考。
I knew that when they figured things like this out, they didn't ask everybody.
我知道，当他们弄清楚这样的事情时，他们并没有询问所有人。
They just asked a small percentage of people and then extrapolated.
他们只是询问了一小部分人，然后进行推断。
I think I figured they'd done some research and found that the name Nielsen, because it was a common name maybe, and it seemed to cut across class and economic lines, actually came pretty close to a representative sample.
我想我认为他们做了一些研究，发现尼尔森这个名字，因为它可能是一个常见的名字，而且它似乎跨越了阶级和经济界限，实际上非常接近一个代表性样本。
I knew this wasn't the way they measured public opinion now, but it seemed like the Nielsen surveys had been around for a while, and I figured they were just a holdover from a more primitive, less statistically rigorous time.
我知道这不是他们现在衡量公众舆论的方式，但尼尔森调查似乎已经存在了一段时间，我认为它们只是一个更原始、统计上不那么严格的时代的遗留物。
After that, I really didn't think about it again.
之后我就真的没有再去想这个问题了。
Or if I did, it was only with a mild curiosity.
或者即使我这样做了，也只是出于轻微的好奇心。
"I wonder why TV still does it that way?"
“我想知道为什么电视仍然这样做？”
Fast forward 20 years.
快进 20 年。
I was talking with a friend of mine, who was telling me about her friend, who had been selected to be a Nielsen family.
我正在和我的一个朋友聊天，她告诉我她的朋友被选为尼尔森家族成员。
And I said to her, "Isn't it weird that they're all named Nielsen?" My friend looked at me for what seemed like a long time.
我对她说：“他们都叫尼尔森，不是很奇怪吗？”我的朋友看着我，似乎看了很长时间。
Somewhere during her very long pause, because of the very long pause, in fact, I realized, "Of course they're not all named Nielsen.
事实上，在她长时间的停顿期间，我意识到，“当然，他们并不都叫尼尔森。
That makes no sense at all."
这根本没有意义。”
At the time of this conversation, I was 34 years old, and I couldn't believe I'd gotten this far without ever stopping to think it through.
进行这次谈话时，我已经 34 岁了，我简直不敢相信自己竟然在没有停下来认真思考的情况下就走到了这一步。
It made me wonder what else I'd missed, and if this has ever happen to anyone besides me.
这让我想知道我还错过了什么，以及除了我之外的任何人是否也发生过这种情况。
When I was a kid, and I would see the school crossing signs, and there's a picture of the little kids walking, and then it would say "School Xing" And I thought that the "Xing" was a word.
当我还是个孩子的时候，我会看到学校的路口标志，有一张小孩子走路的照片，然后上面会写“学校兴”，我以为“兴”是一个词。
And I pronounced it "zing."
我把它发音为“zing”。
Turns out I'm not alone.
原来我并不孤单。
I've been talking to people about this for weeks, and there's a lot of us out there, like me and this woman Jodi Mace, carting around our childhood beliefs well into adulthood.
几周来我一直在和人们谈论这个问题，我们很多人，比如我和这个女人乔迪·梅斯，一直把我们童年的信仰带到成年。
Jodi thought there were lots of xings, deer xings, railroad xings.
乔迪认为有很多“星星”，鹿“星星”，铁路“星星”。
It makes sense.
这是有道理的。
Well, I was in my 20s, and I was walking into work, and about 10 geese walked in front of me on the sidewalk.
嗯，当时我 20 多岁，我正步行去上班，人行道上大约有 10 只鹅走在我前面。
And so I just turned to my coworker and casually said, "It looks like they should have a xing sign there for the geese." There was a long, awkward silence.
于是我就转向我的同事，漫不经心地说：“看起来他们应该为鹅挂一个 xing 标志。”一阵漫长而尴尬的沉默。
And I thought that he was thinking, "You know, that really is a good idea." But instead, he finally said, "You know, 'xing' isn't in a word."
我以为他在想，“你知道，这确实是个好主意。”但他最终还是说道：“你知道，‘兴’不是一个词。”
In talking to people, I found out that a lot of these lingering misconceptions involve mispronunciation.
在与人们交谈时，我发现很多这些挥之不去的误解都与发音错误有关。
And often the mispronunciation survives into adulthood because the mistake just sounds better.
而且这种发音错误往往会一直持续到成年，因为这个错误听起来更好。
It makes more sense.
这更有意义。
You know, it should be a word.
你知道，这应该是一个词。
And it should be xing.
而且应该是Xing。
You don't want a kid to walk slowly across the crossing.
你不希望孩子慢慢地走过十字路口。
If he's smart, he's going to xing.
如果他聪明的话，他就会兴致勃勃。
Consider the word "misled." I talked to three people, including my own father, who used to pronounce it "my-zulled." All three believed it was the past tense of a nonexistent verb "misle," which means "to deceive" or "to mislead." There's another guy I spoke to who thought well in his early 20s that the word "quesadilla" was Spanish for "What's the deal?"
考虑一下“误导”这个词。我和三个人交谈过，其中包括我自己的父亲，他过去常常将其发音为“my-zulled”。三人都认为这是一个不存在的动词“misle”的过去式，意思是“欺骗”或“误导”。我采访过的另一个人在他 20 岁出头的时候就认为“quesadilla”这个词在西班牙语中是“怎么回事？”的意思。
Most of the common childhood myths, like that babies come from storks, get corrected sooner or later.
大多数常见的童年神话，比如婴儿来自鹳，迟早会被纠正。
They're not obscure enough to sneak into adulthood unscrutinized.
它们还没有默默无闻地潜入成年而不受审视。
But occasionally even a very popular childhood myth can make it through, like unicorns.
但有时，即使是非常流行的童年神话也能成功，比如独角兽。
In my head, a unicorn wasn't really any different than a zebra.
在我看来，独角兽和斑马没有什么不同。
This is Christy Kruger.
这是克里斯蒂·克鲁格。
Christy Kruger I mean, in terms of believability, I think the unicorn's really ahead of the dinosaur.
克里斯蒂·克鲁格 我的意思是，就可信度而言，我认为独角兽确实领先于恐龙。
What do you mean?
你是什么意思？
Christy Kruger Well, I mean when you think about a dinosaur, like, from a kid's perspective, a dinosaur is one of these really large, monstrous animals roaming the earth.
克里斯蒂·克鲁格：好吧，我的意思是，当你想到恐龙时，从孩子的角度来看，恐龙是在地球上漫游的巨大而可怕的动物之一。
And then you have a unicorn, which is basically just a horse with a horn.
然后你就有了一只独角兽，它基本上只是一匹有角的马。
As Christy Kruger grew up, she says that if she ever thought about unicorns, they were on a grassy plain, somewhere in Africa, drinking from a watering hole with the wildebeest and the impala.
克里斯蒂·克鲁格 (Christy Kruger) 说，随着她的成长，如果她曾经想到过独角兽，那一定是它们在非洲某处的一片草地上，与角马和黑斑羚一起从水坑里喝水。
And then one night, she found herself in a conversation at a party.
然后有一天晚上，她发现自己正在一场聚会上谈话。
It was about a group of five to seven people, standing around the keg, just talking.
大约有五到七个人，站在小桶周围，只是说话。
And somehow, a discussion of endangered species came up, in which I posed the question "Is the unicorn endangered or extinct?" And basically, there was a big gap of silence.
不知何故，出现了关于濒危物种的讨论，其中我提出了“独角兽是濒危还是灭绝？”的问题。基本上，有一段很大的沉默。
As you might be gathering, at some point in all these stories, you come to a big gap of silence.
当你们聚集在一起时，在所有这些故事的某个时刻，你们会遇到一个巨大的沉默间隙。
And then everybody laughed.
然后大家都笑了。
And then that laughter was followed by more silence when they realized I wasn't laughing.
当他们意识到我没有笑时，笑声过后是更多的沉默。
And I was like, "Yeah.
我当时想，“是啊。
I-- oh god.
我——天啊。
Unicorns aren't real?
独角兽不是真的吗？
Oh.
哦。
Oh no!"
哦不！”
Sometimes, a ridiculous belief will survive into adulthood, and it's our parents who are to blame.
有时候，一种荒谬的信念会一直延续到成年，而罪魁祸首就是我们的父母。
Robin didn't think there was anything strange about the way she was raised.
罗宾并不认为她的成长方式有什么奇怪的。
She lived together with her sister and her parents in a nice house in the suburbs.
她与姐姐和父母一起住在郊区的一所漂亮的房子里。
She went to school like the other kids, watched TV and did her homework.
她像其他孩子一样去学校，看电视，做作业。
And she ate the exact same thing for dinner every night of her life-- baked chicken.
她一生中每天晚上的晚餐都吃同样的东西——烤鸡。
It was like Monday, chicken, Tuesday, chicken, Wednesday, chicken, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, chicken.
就像周一，鸡，周二，鸡，周三，鸡，周四，周五，周六，周日，鸡。
Chicken, chicken, chicken, chicken every night of my life until I left for college.
我生命中的每一个夜晚都是鸡，鸡，鸡，鸡，直到我去上大学。
At the end of the first week of college, when everyone's desperately trying to fit in and it's important that you act cool, and sophisticated, and whatever, everyone begins complaining about the food that we're being served.
在大学第一周结束时，当每个人都拼命地试图融入其中时，表现得冷静、老练是很重要的，无论如何，每个人都开始抱怨我们所吃的食物。
What was the hard stuff in the sloppy Joe?
邋遢乔身上到底有什么硬东西？
What was that mystery meat?
那神秘的肉到底是什么？
What animal did it come from?
它来自什么动物？
And I'm looking at these people like they are crazy.
我看着这些人，就像他们疯了一样。
The variety we were getting here, every night, every night there's a different meal.
我们在这里得到的食物种类繁多，每天晚上，每天晚上都有不同的饭菜。
I mean, one night it's mac and cheese, one night it's mystery meat, one night it's sloppy Joe.
我的意思是，一晚是通心粉和奶酪，一晚是神秘肉，一晚是马虎乔。
One night it's-- I was like, how can you critic-- I mean, it's a testament to what great chefs they must be that they can make a different meal every single night of the week.
有一天晚上——我想，你怎么能批评——我的意思是，这证明了他们一定是多么伟大的厨师，他们可以在一周的每个晚上做一顿不同的饭菜。
And they just kind of-- they kind of stared, and they're like "What?" And I'm like, "What what?" What's running through my head is, wait a minute.
他们只是盯着看，然后问“什么？”我想，“什么什么？”我脑子里闪过的是，等一下。
These people are implying that they had variation in their meal plan for their entire life.
这些人暗示他们一生的饮食计划都有所变化。
It's mind-bending.
这是令人费解的。
I mean, I don't care what I learned throughout college.
我的意思是，我不在乎我在大学期间学到了什么。
This is the revelation that has stuck with me.
这是一直困扰着我的启示。
This is what I've learned.
这是我学到的。
All of a sudden, like holy god!
顿时如圣神一般！
When Robin came home for Thanksgiving that year, she confronted her mother with the startling fact that everyone else ate things besides chicken growing up.
那年感恩节回家时，罗宾向母亲提出了一个令人震惊的事实：除了鸡肉以外，其他人在成长过程中都吃其他东西。
Her mother just shrugged her shoulders and said, "You liked chicken." Robin had to concede the point.
她妈妈只是耸耸肩说：“你喜欢鸡肉。”罗宾不得不承认这一点。
Even when they went out to restaurants, Robin ordered chicken.
即使他们去餐馆，罗宾也会点鸡肉。
They all had.
他们都有。
Here's one more.
这里还有一个。
When Harriet Lerner was a girl, her family was going through some lean years.
当哈丽特·勒纳（Harriet Lerner）还是个小女孩的时候，她的家庭正经历着一段艰难的岁月。
There were two kids.
有两个孩子。
The house needed repairs.
房子需要修理。
There wasn't much money for holiday gifts.
没有多少钱买节日礼物。
Harriet was seven, and she wanted a bike.
哈丽特七岁了，她想要一辆自行车。
Her sister, Susan, was 12.
她的妹妹苏珊 12 岁。
She wanted a set of encyclopedias.
她想要一套百科全书。
But when they came downstairs on Christmas morning, there were only two small boxes waiting for them.
但当他们在圣诞节早上下楼时，只有两个小盒子在等着他们。
What was inside them-- and we both had exactly the same gift-- were these real ugly metal tissue holders painted black with these corny red and yellow roses.
它们里面的东西——我们都有完全相同的礼物——是这些真正丑陋的金属纸巾架，用这些老土的红色和黄色玫瑰涂成黑色。
They were painted with these cheesy looking red and yellow roses.
它们被涂上了这些看起来俗气的红色和黄色玫瑰。
And I looked at my tissue box and I started to cry.
我看着我的纸巾盒，开始哭泣。
And I looked at my big sister, Susan, and I thought, of course, she was going to cry too.
我看着我的姐姐苏珊，我想，她当然也会哭。
And she looked like maybe she was going to cry, but then she put on a big smile.
她看起来可能要哭了，但随后她露出了灿烂的笑容。
And then she told me that the boxes were painted by trained monkeys.
然后她告诉我，这些盒子是由受过训练的猴子画的。
The box became Harriet's prized possession.
这个盒子成了哈丽特的珍贵财产。
She kept it on display in her room through elementary school, through high school.
从小学到高中，她一直把它放在自己的房间里展示。
Her friends asked her about it and she'd say, "Oh yeah.
她的朋友问她这件事，她会说：“哦，是的。
It was painted by trained monkeys." Nobody ever challenged her on it.
它是由受过训练的猴子画的。”从来没有人在这方面挑战过她。
Maybe because she believed it herself so completely.
也许是因为她自己对此深信不疑。
And then one day, she was home from college, back in the house where she grew up.
然后有一天，她从大学回家，回到了她长大的房子。
And I'm going through some papers, or maybe I was snooping through Susan's papers.
我正在翻阅一些文件，或者也许我正在窥探苏珊的文件。
And I found a composition, and it had her name on it.
我找到了一篇作文，上面有她的名字。
And she had written it in high school, and it was called the Tissue Box Story.
她在高中时写的，名字叫《纸巾盒的故事》。
So I sat down on the floor of Susan's bedroom to read this composition.
于是我坐在苏珊卧室的地板上读这篇作文。
And Susan told the story just as I told it, except that she wrote how she felt when she saw me crying, and how she then looked at my parents and saw that my mother was about to cry too, and how she looked at the tissue boxes and then she remembered that my father had a friend who made them, and she knew how much my parents hated taking charity.
苏珊讲述的故事和我讲述的一样，只是她写了当她看到我哭泣时的感受，以及她如何看着我的父母，看到我的母亲也快要哭了，以及她如何看着纸巾盒，然后她想起我父亲有一个朋友制作了纸巾盒，她知道我的父母有多么讨厌接受慈善机构。
And suddenly, even though she was about to cry, she forced herself to smile, and she pretended those boxes were painted by trained monkeys.
突然间，尽管她快要哭了，她还是强迫自己微笑，假装那些盒子是由受过训练的猴子画的。
And then, of course, I didn't know any of this.
然后，当然，我对这些一无所知。
But the funny thing she wrote in her composition is that she just rushed upstairs and started crying all over her pillow.
但她在作文中写到的有趣之处在于，她只是冲上楼，就开始在枕头上哭泣。
And she wasn't really sad about the gift, really, is what she said in the composition.
事实上，她对这份礼物并不感到难过，正如她在作文中所说的那样。
She wasn't sure why she was crying except that it was like she had volunteered to be a grown up before she was even ready for it.
她不知道自己为什么哭，只是觉得自己还没准备好就已经自愿长大了。
Up until that moment, I had never thought to question my sister's story.
在那一刻之前，我从未想过要质疑姐姐的故事。
I had never subjected it to the scrutiny of a grown up mind.
我从来没有用成年人的思维来审视它。
I mean, I was 20.
我的意思是，我当时20岁。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I had this tissue box that was painted by trained monkeys, and then it wasn't painted by trained monkeys, really.
我有一个纸巾盒，是由受过训练的猴子画的，但它实际上不是由受过训练的猴子画的。
Up until reading that story, Harriet thought that her sister's lies had been only to torment her, like the time Harriet swallowed an apple seed and her big sister convinced her that she had an apple tree growing inside her.
在读到这个故事之前，哈丽特一直以为姐姐的谎言只是为了折磨她，就像哈丽特吞下一颗苹果种子时，她的姐姐让她相信她体内长着一棵苹果树。
She'd always been jealous of her sister, always wanted to be the big sister.
她一直嫉妒她的姐姐，一直想成为姐姐。
But reading her sister's story that day made her realize how responsible her sister felt for her, and for their entire family, and how there were benefits to being the baby.
但那天读到姐姐的故事让她意识到姐姐对她和整个家庭有多么的责任，以及作为婴儿的好处。
It was good to learn all that.
学到这一切真是太好了。
But the vision of the lie, that we live in a world where monkeys can be trained to paint, is hard to give up.
但我们生活在一个可以训练猴子绘画的世界的谎言的愿景很难放弃。
And really, it's just that I can still picture this tissue box and how much I loved it, this tissue box painted by trained monkeys.
事实上，我仍然可以想象这个纸巾盒，以及我是多么喜欢它，这个由训练有素的猴子画的纸巾盒。
I know what she means.
我知道她的意思。
For me, there's something appealingly weird about a world where only people who happen to have been born with the name Nielsen get to decide what goes on television.
对我来说，这个世界有一种奇怪的吸引人的地方，只有出生时名字恰好是尼尔森的人才能决定电视上播放的内容。
And not long after the day that Jodi Mace's coworker set her straight about the word "xing," she found herself on the opposite side of the exact same situation.
就在乔迪·梅斯的同事向她直言“兴”这个词的那天后不久，她发现自己处于完全相同的情况的对立面。
She was having a conversation with another coworker, and he asked her if elves were real.
她正在与另一位同事交谈，他问她精灵是否真实存在。
"Elves?
“精灵？
Like that live in the forest, with the pointy toes?" He nodded.
就像生活在森林里、脚趾尖的人一样？”他点点头。
She paused, and then she said, "Yeah, of course they are."
她停顿了一下，然后说：“是的，当然是。”
Alex Blumberg.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格。
In his day job, he makes podcasts, great podcasts, Reply All, Heavyweight, StartUp , lots of other ones, at gimletmedia.com.
在日常工作中，他在 gimletmedia.com 上制作播客、精彩播客、全部回复、重量级播客、初创公司播客以及许多其他播客。
[MUSIC - "WHEN I WAS A CHILD" BY PEGGY LEE]
[音乐 - PEGGY LEE 的《当我还是个孩子时》]
Our program was produced today by Jonathan Goldstein and myself, with Alex Blumberg, Wendy Dorr and Starlee Kine.
今天我们的节目由乔纳森·戈尔茨坦和我本人以及亚历克斯·布隆伯格、温迪·多尔和斯塔莉·凯恩共同制作。
Senior producer for today's show is Julie Snyder.
今天节目的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Our technical director is Matt Tierney.
我们的技术总监是马特·蒂尔尼。
Production help from Emmanuel Dzotsi.
Emmanuel Dzotsi 提供制作帮助。
Our staff includes Elise Bergerson, Emily Condon, Kimberly Henderson, and Seth Lind.
我们的员工包括 Elise Bergerson、Emily Condon、Kimberly Henderson 和 Seth Lind。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
[致谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia, who explains his behavior this way.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生，他以这种方式解释了他的行为。
Me too, bro.
我也是，兄弟。
Me too.
我也是。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life .
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。