604: 20 Years Later - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #604 | December 9, 2016 604: 20 Years Later Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 604 集 | 2016 年 12 月 9 日 604：20 年后 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass
序言 艾拉·格拉斯
I recorded this conversation with my mom three years before she died.
我妈妈去世前三年，我录下了这段对话。
It was for a Mother's Day edition of our radio show, but only a tiny part of it made it onto the air and I listened to the rest yesterday for the first time since then, 16 years ago.
这是我们广播节目的母亲节版，但只有一小部分播出了，昨天我第一次听到剩下的部分，那是 16 年前的事了。
I was relieved to hear how well we were getting along, how comfortable we both were because it wasn't always like that with us.
听到我们相处得多么融洽，我们俩都多么自在，我感到很欣慰，因为我们之间并不总是这样。
Like for instance, we're talking about mothers and Mother's Day and my mom was a therapist and she started telling me about her patients who were mothers and the problems they had with her own grown children.
举例来说，我们正在谈论母亲和母亲节，我妈妈是一名治疗师，她开始告诉我她的病人是母亲，以及他们与自己成年孩子的问题。
They thought they'd be really close.
他们以为他们会非常亲密。
They thought they'd be appreciated.
他们认为自己会受到赞赏。
They thought they'd be respected and turned to for advice.
他们认为自己会受到尊重并寻求建议。
That's a big one.
那是一件大事。
That's probably one of the great disappointments is that children don't come to you for advice.
孩子们不会向你寻求建议，这可能是最令人失望的事情之一。
I was glad to hear that we didn't pretend this didn't apply to us.
我很高兴听到我们没有假装这不适用于我们。
We went for it.
我们就这么做了。
I think only now would I be able to turn to you for advice.
我想只有现在我才能向你寻求建议。
Mm-hm.
嗯嗯。
Ira Glass I felt like for so many years, you and dad disapproved so strongly in everything I was doing.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：多年来，我一直觉得你和爸爸对我所做的一切都强烈反对。
It would have been hard.
这会很难。
What I'm not saying, but she and I both know, is that there were years, like most of my 20s, where she and I barely talked.
我没有说，但她和我都知道，有很多年，就像我 20 多岁时的大部分时间一样，我和她几乎没有说话。
I didn't want to be in touch with her and my dad.
我不想和她还有我爸爸联系。
I felt no connection to them for reasons I don't want to go into right now and I am not proud of.
我觉得与他们没有任何联系，因为我现在不想谈论这些原因，而且我并不为此感到自豪。
I held myself apart.
我把自己分开。
So if you were to come to me for advice, what kind of advice would you come to me for?
那么如果你来向我寻求建议，你会向我寻求什么样的建议呢？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Ira Glass's Mother Suppose you were having a problem with your girlfriend.
艾拉·格拉斯的母亲 假设你和你的女朋友有问题。
Well, I mean, I think with a girlfriend, I think I would be defensive that you just think, eh, just another relationship I'm messing up, you know?
好吧，我的意思是，我认为和女朋友在一起时，我想我会为你辩护，因为你会认为，呃，我搞砸了另一段关系，你知道吗？
So you have a need for me to see you as OK.
所以你需要我看到你一切都好。
Yes, but I would argue that you also have a need for me to show you that things are OK.
是的，但我认为你也需要我向你表明一切都很好。
Mm-hm.
嗯嗯。
That's true.
这是真的。
Ira Glass Look at us listening to each other, better than I remembered.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）看看我们互相倾听，比我记忆中的还要好。
But there were awkward moments, too, on this recording.
但在这段录音中也有尴尬的时刻。
I winced hearing myself explain to my mom that we had done three Father's Day shows, but not one Mother's Day show, because I told her people's relationships with their moms are just so much more complicated than their relationships with their dads, as if that was some like universal truth and not just like me and her.
听到自己向妈妈解释我们已经做了三场父亲节演出，但没有一场母亲节演出，我不禁皱起了眉头，因为我告诉她，人们与母亲的关系比他们与父亲的关系复杂得多，仿佛这是普遍真理，而不仅仅是像我和她一样。
And then there's this one question that really makes my mom pause, I mean like literally pause, for 15 seconds.
然后有一个问题确实让我妈妈停了下来，我的意思是真正的停顿了 15 秒。
The question is along the lines of have you ever met somebody who actually gets along with her mom?
问题是你有没有遇到过和她妈妈相处得很好的人？
And I'm sure it didn't occur to me that the premise of that question might hurt her feelings, but of course, now I hear all that, like in that pause.
我确信我没有想到这个问题的前提可能会伤害她的感情，但当然，现在我听到了所有这些，就像停顿一样。
OK.
好的。
Here it is.
这里是。
Mom, can I ask you to just think for a second about your various clients.
妈妈，我可以请您想一下您的各种客户吗？
How common is it that people have relationships with their mothers where things are going OK?
人们与母亲的关系进展顺利的情况有多常见？
And how common is it troubled?
这种问题有多常见？
I would say the majority of people that I see in therapy are ambivalent about their relationships with both parents.
我想说，我在治疗中看到的大多数人对于他们与父母双方的关系都是矛盾的。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass's Mother Not one more than the other.
艾拉·格拉斯的母亲 一个也不多。
Right.
正确的。
The question made her feel bad, but I didn't understand that back then.
这个问题让她心情不好，但我当时并不明白。
And I spent the last day just feeling this regret and affection for her, which, I guess, is what I was hoping for when I listened yesterday that I would learn something, I would see something I hadn't seen before, that I would have some thought I didn't have back then.
最后一天我只是感受到了对她的遗憾和感情，我想这就是我昨天听到时所希望的，我会学到一些东西，我会看到一些我以前从未见过的东西，我会有一些我当时没有的想法。
Today on our radio show, we have the story of somebody who yearned for that.
今天，在我们的广播节目中，我们讲述了一个渴望实现这一目标的人的故事。
She went back to a moment from the past, something with her mom from 20 years before hoping to see something new.
她回到了过去的某个时刻，20 年前她和妈妈一起经历的事情，希望能看到一些新的东西。
Though as you'll hear, it's a totally different kind of moment she's returning to, this big difficult event that happened to them and changed their lives forever-- very different from me and my mom.
不过，正如你所听到的，她回到的是一个完全不同的时刻，这是发生在他们身上并永远改变了他们的生活的重大困难事件——与我和我妈妈非常不同。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
The story that we're playing you today just won this huge radio award.
我们今天为您播放的故事刚刚赢得了这项巨大的广播奖。
It's one of the best things produced for radio this year anywhere in the world and we are proud to be the first ones to give it a national broadcast.
这是今年世界各地广播电台制作的最好的节目之一，我们很自豪能够成为第一批在全国范围内播出的节目。
It was created by the Public Radio website transom.org by Samantha Broun and Jay Allison.
它是由公共广播网站 transom.org 由 Samantha Broun 和 Jay Allison 创建的。
It is Samantha's story.
这是萨曼莎的故事。
A warning before we start that.
在我们开始之前发出警告。
Part of the story has descriptions of violence, sexual violence.
故事的一部分有暴力、性暴力的描述。
Consider this a trigger warning.
将此视为触发警告。
It's not right for small children.
这不适合小孩子。
OK.
好的。
Here's that story.
这是那个故事。
Here's Samantha Broun.
请听萨曼莎·布劳恩的报道。
There's no way to ease into this story, so I'll just start.
没有办法轻松地进入这个故事，所以我就开始吧。
In 1994, my mother was the victim of a violent crime.
1994年，我的母亲是一场暴力犯罪的受害者。
She was 55 years old and living alone in Nyack, New York.
她今年 55 岁，独自住在纽约州尼亚克。
On the evening of September 21st, a stranger came into her backyard.
9月21日晚，一名陌生人来到她家后院。
The stranger attacked her from behind.
陌生人从后面袭击了她。
Five hours later, he left her lying on her bed, hands and feet bound with tape, alive.
五小时后，他让她躺在床上，手脚都被胶带绑着，还活着。
She survived.
她活了下来。
Whatever horrible thing you imagined happened to her in those five hours, likely did.
无论你想象的那五个小时里她发生了什么可怕的事情，很可能都发生了。
I still find it hard to believe to accept what she went through.
我仍然觉得很难相信接受她所经历的事情。
I know that a lot of people have been the victims of crimes.
我知道很多人都是犯罪行为的受害者。
I've had my car stolen, my apartment broken into.
我的车被偷了，我的公寓被闯入了。
I felt violated after those events, but what happened to my mom was unimaginable, undigestable.
这些事件发生后，我感到受到了侵犯，但发生在我妈妈身上的事情是难以想象、难以消化的。
What happened to her changed our view of the world.
她身上发生的事情改变了我们对世界的看法。
When Reginald McFadden was arrested and charged with the crimes against my mom, my feeling shifted from terror to outrage.
当雷金纳德·麦克法登被捕并被指控犯有针对我母亲的罪行时，我的感觉从恐惧转变为愤怒。
I wanted someone to take responsibility for what went wrong, which is how I ended up testifying in front of a Senate Judiciary hearing in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
我希望有人对出现的问题承担责任，这就是我最终在宾夕法尼亚州哈里斯堡的参议院司法听证会上作证的原因。
I would like to thank Governor Ridge, Attorney General Preate, Chairman Greenleaf--
我要感谢里奇州长、总检察长、格林利夫主席——
That's me in February 1995 in front of a panel of Pennsylvania senators and a roomful of reporters.
1995 年 2 月，我站在宾夕法尼亚州参议员小组和一屋子记者面前。
And I'm pissed.
我很生气。
I am here today because last July, Reginald McFadden, a convicted murderer, was released from a Pennsylvania prison.
我今天来到这里是因为去年七月，被定罪的杀人犯雷金纳德·麦克法登从宾夕法尼亚州监狱获释。
It turned out that the guy who randomly attacked my mom was a convicted murderer and his life sentence without parole had been commuted.
原来，那个随意袭击我妈妈的家伙是一个被定罪的杀人犯，他的无期徒刑不得假释已经被减刑了。
After 24 years, he walked out of prison in Pennsylvania and, within days, moved to Nyack, New York, less than a mile from where my mother lived.
24 年后，他走出了宾夕法尼亚州的监狱，几天之内就搬到了纽约州的尼亚克，距离我母亲的住处不到一英里。
On September 21st, while my mother was taking out her garbage, Reginald McFadden--
9 月 21 日，当我母亲倒垃圾时，雷金纳德·麦克法登——
Just take your time.
慢慢来。
Samantha Broun Reginald McFadden brutally attacked, then beat, robbed, repeatedly raped, and kidnapped my mother during a five hour ordeal.
萨曼莎·布劳恩·雷金纳德·麦克法登在五个小时的折磨中残酷地攻击、殴打、抢劫、多次强奸并绑架了我的母亲。
I couldn't understand how Reginald McFadden had been let out of prison and I wanted to be sure whatever crack he slipped through was sealed shut.
我不明白雷金纳德·麦克法登是如何被放出监狱的，我想确保他漏掉的任何裂缝都被密封起来。
And it seemed as if that's exactly what happened.
看起来好像这正是发生的事情。
The Pennsylvania State Constitution was changed, commutation for lifers became nearly impossible to get.
宾夕法尼亚州宪法发生了变化，终身监禁者几乎不可能获得减刑。
My testimony helped make that happen.
我的证词帮助实现了这一目标。
My mom's case was a big deal.
我妈妈的案子是个大案子。
McFadden was a big deal.
麦克法登是一件大事。
It was one of those crimes that makes people angry and scared, that becomes a symbol for a lot of things.
这是让人们愤怒和害怕的罪行之一，它成为很多事情的象征。
And because it happened during an election, it even had an impact on who became the governor of Pennsylvania.
由于这件事发生在选举期间，甚至对谁成为宾夕法尼亚州州长也产生了影响。
A few years ago, nearly 20 years after all this happened, my mother moved from her home in New York to one near me on Cape Cod.
几年前，也就是这一切发生近 20 年后，我母亲从纽约的家搬到了科德角靠近我的家。
I thought it would be an easy adjustment for her, less congestion, more ocean, but it wasn't.
我以为这对她来说是一个简单的调整，更少的拥堵，更多的海洋，但事实并非如此。
Every little sound she was convinced was a stranger in her house.
她确信家里的每一个细微的声音都是陌生人。
She imagined walks in the woods would have some violent end.
她想象在树林里散步会有一些暴力的结局。
She lost sleep.
她失眠了。
She was scared to death.
她吓得要死。
It was the aftershock from her assault, of course, from McFadden.
当然，这是麦克法登对她的袭击造成的余震。
Seeing my mother struggle rattled me.
看到母亲挣扎，我感到很不安。
I was surprised at the intensity of it after all these years.
这么多年过去了，我对它的强度感到惊讶。
I couldn't stand to see her suffering still.
我无法忍受看到她仍然受苦。
That's when I decided I needed to do something.
就在那时我决定我需要做点什么。
I started digging around, reaching out to people related to the case.
我开始四处寻找，联系与此案有关的人。
I wasn't sure what I was doing exactly or why.
我不确定我到底在做什么或为什么。
I just wanted to get us un-stuck, maybe move the story forward, rethink it, something.
我只是想让我们摆脱困境，也许推动故事向前发展，重新思考，诸如此类。
I've already told you this isn't an easy story to tell.
我已经告诉过你这不是一个容易讲的故事。
It won't be an easy one to listen to.
这不是一件容易听的事。
I suppose I could start with how the system failed or with McFadden's family in Philadelphia.
我想我可以从系统如何失败或麦克法登在费城的家人开始。
I could start with the thousands of prisoners whose lives were affected by McFadden, or I could tell you about the political careers, both launched and destroyed.
我可以从生活受到麦克法登影响的数千名囚犯开始，或者我可以告诉你政治生涯，无论是开启的还是摧毁的。
But instead, I think I'll save those parts and start where I usually start, which is with my mother.
但相反，我想我会保留这些部分并从我通常开始的地方开始，那就是和我的母亲一起。
Well, I'm curious what you're going to ask me about.
嗯，我很好奇你要问我什么。
Well, I thought today we would talk about September 21st.
嗯，我想今天我们应该讨论 9 月 21 日。
I have to say, I'm feeling nervous about talking about it, because I don't know that you and I have ever sat across from each other and had this conversation.
我不得不说，谈论这件事我感到很紧张，因为我不知道你和我曾经坐在对面进行过这样的谈话。
I guess, for me, it's easier when I'm talking to strangers or when I'm just talking about how I survived, but when I tell a loved one, it's much deeper, it just goes deeper into what really happened to my spirit, my soul.
我想，对我来说，当我与陌生人交谈或只是谈论我如何幸存时，会更容易，但当我告诉我所爱的人时，它会更深刻，它只会更深入地了解我的精神、我的灵魂到底发生了什么。
Are you OK to do this?
你可以这样做吗？
Jeremy Brown I'd like to try.
杰里米·布朗 我想尝试一下。
I'd like to try.
我想尝试一下。
I'd like to try, too, but I worry about it being hard for you.
我也想尝试一下，但我担心这对你来说很难。
Like I guess I worry that it will bring it to the surface in a way that maybe it hasn't been or it doesn't have to be or that might be hard for you.
就像我想我担心它会以一种可能没有或不必如此或者对你来说可能很难的方式将其带到表面。
No, I think we need to try this because we've decided to do it and we're not quitters, are we?
不，我认为我们需要尝试一下，因为我们已经决定这样做，而且我们不会放弃，不是吗？
Let's try it.
我们来试试吧。
By the way, my mom is Jeremy Brown.
顺便说一下，我妈妈是杰里米·布朗。
She's in her mid 70s now, but you'd never know it.
她现在已经70多岁了，但你永远不会知道。
She looks 15 years younger, she's bright eyed and elegant and full of life.
她看起来年轻了15岁，眼睛明亮，优雅，充满活力。
In the fall of 1994, she was living in a little house she had bought after she and my father divorced.
1994年秋天，她住在她和我父亲离婚后买的一栋小房子里。
I lived there with her for a year or so, working and saving money for graduate school.
我和她在那里住了一年左右，一边工作一边攒钱读研究生。
I moved out at the beginning of September.
我九月初搬了出去。
It was the first time in my mother's adult life that she was living alone.
这是我母亲成年后第一次独自生活。
I was never afraid of anybody.
我从来不害怕任何人。
I felt very safe.
我感觉很安全。
Do you remember the day of September 21st?
你还记得9月21日这一天吗？
Do you remember was it sunny?
你还记得那天是晴天吗？
Did you go to work?
你去上班了吗？
Do you remember anything about the day?
你还记得那天发生的事情吗？
My memory is that it was a very ordinary day of going to work
我的记忆是那是一个很平常的上班日
When this happened my mom was working as a drug and alcohol counselor, helping people kick addictions.
当这件事发生时，我妈妈正在担任毒品和酒精咨询师，帮助人们戒除毒瘾。
When she got home that night--
那天晚上，当她回到家时——
It was time I thought to get the recyclables outside and the garbage down to the curb.
是时候我想把可回收物扔到外面，把垃圾扔到路边了。
She went out the kitchen, into the breezeway--
她走出厨房，走进走廊——
Through the door and the moon was out and it was lovely out.
推门而出，月亮出来了，景色很美。
She bent over to pick up the box of recyclables and was struck with a fist, a pipe--
她弯腰捡起那盒可回收物，结果被拳头、烟斗击中——
It was like if somebody threw a bowling ball at your back.
这就像有人向你的背后扔了一个保龄球。
That's how hard it hit me.
这对我打击很大。
This person put his face right in my neck, next to my ear.
这个人把脸放在我的脖子上，靠近我的耳朵。
My mother screamed.
我妈妈尖叫起来。
Jeremy Brown He kept yelling, shut up, in my ear, shut up.
杰里米·布朗 他一直在我耳边大喊，闭嘴，闭嘴。
She struggled.
她挣扎着。
She even bit down on the gloved hand he put over her mouth.
她甚至咬住了他捂住嘴的戴着手套的手。
Did you see him?
你看到他了吗？
Jeremy Brown No. He was behind me.
杰里米·布朗 不。他在我身后。
And after I bit him was when, I believe, he began to hit me in my head and only in my head until I passed out.
我相信，在我咬了他之后，他就开始打我的头，而且只打我的头，直到我昏过去。
My mom grew up about 20 minutes from where she was living in 1994.
我妈妈长大的地方距离她 1994 年居住的地方大约 20 分钟路程。
She is the youngest of five children.
她是五个孩子中最小的一个。
Her father was an apple and peach farmer.
她的父亲是一位苹果和桃子种植者。
The story goes that she was supposed to be a boy, which is how she ended up with the name Jeremy.
据说她本来应该是个男孩，这就是她最终得到杰里米这个名字的原因。
When she was old enough to leave home, she tried college, but dropped out and moved into New York City to make a go of it as a singer.
当她到了可以离开家的年龄时，她尝试上大学，但辍学并搬到纽约市，以歌手的身份谋求发展。
She was in the course of My Fair Lady on Broadway when she met my dad.
当她遇见我父亲时，她正在百老汇观看《窈窕淑女》。
My mom stopped auditioning in the city once she had my brother and me, but she never gave up singing or the theater.
有了我和弟弟后，我妈妈就不再在城里试镜，但她从未放弃唱歌或戏剧。
It wasn't until her early 50s that she became certified as a drug and alcoholism counselor.
直到 50 岁出头，她才获得了毒品和酗酒咨询师的认证。
She was really good at it.
她真的很擅长。
McFadden pulled my mother up and pushed her toward the house.
麦克法登把我母亲拉起来，把她推向房子。
One of her eye sockets was broken, her nose fractured, her teeth knocked loose.
她的一只眼窝被打断，鼻子骨折，牙齿松动。
Her eyes were swelling shut.
她的眼睛肿胀地闭上了。
McFadden demanded she not look at him.
麦克法登要求她不要看他。
When they got in the house, he draped a towel over my mother's head.
当他们进屋时，他把一条毛巾盖在我母亲的头上。
And he started to take my pants off.
然后他开始脱我的裤子。
And I remember so clearly thinking what in the world is he doing.
我记得很清楚地思考他到底在做什么。
By then, I was a typical rape victim.
那时，我就是一个典型的强奸受害者。
You go to a place where you have no idea what's going on.
你去了一个你不知道发生了什么的地方。
None of the words that apply to what's going on come into your head.
你的脑海中没有出现任何适用于正在发生的事情的词语。
You're in a space that just does not understand anything so that you can look down at a strange man pulling your pants off and think, why is he doing this?
你身处一个什么都不懂的空间，所以你可以低头看着一个陌生的男人脱掉你的裤子，然后想，他为什么要这样做？
What is this?
这是什么？
I don't remember specifically much after that, except that he did rape me on that bed, my bed.
之后我不太记得了，除了他确实在那张床上强奸了我，我的床上。
McFadden started to ask my mom all sorts of questions.
麦克法登开始问我妈妈各种各样的问题。
She decided not to lie about anything.
她决定不再对任何事情撒谎。
Her sense was if she was honest, she might connect to something in him.
她的感觉是，如果她诚实，她可能会与他身上的某些东西产生共鸣。
Something beneath the violence innately, I just knew that I should talk very straight and calmly to this guy and not let him get me hysterical, because I just sort of had a feeling that if I got hysterical, I'd die.
在暴力的本质下，我只知道我应该非常坦率、冷静地与这个人交谈，不要让他让我歇斯底里，因为我有一种感觉，如果我歇斯底里，我就会死。
What my mother had no way of knowing then was that McFadden did plan to kill her.
我母亲当时不知道麦克法登确实计划杀死她。
In fact, he had murdered Robert Silk on Long Island just two weeks before.
事实上，就在两周前，他在长岛谋杀了罗伯特·希尔克。
The week after he attacked my mom, he sexually assaulted and killed 78-year-old Margaret Kierer, also on Long Island, and Dana DeMarco in Rockland County the week after that.
在他袭击我妈妈的一周后，他又性侵并杀害了同样在长岛的 78 岁的玛格丽特·基尔 (Margaret Kierer)，再一周又性侵并杀害了罗克兰县的达纳·德马科 (Dana DeMarco)。
She was 39 years old.
她今年39岁。
The police eventually referred to McFadden as a serial killer.
警方最终将麦克法登称为连环杀手。
My mother, it turned out, was his only surviving victim.
事实证明，我的母亲是他唯一幸存的受害者。
Stories like these get shortened over time to sentences like the one I started with, my mother is the victim of a violent crime, and usually, you leave it at that.
随着时间的推移，这样的故事会被缩短为像我一开始的句子，我的母亲是暴力犯罪的受害者，通常，你就这样吧。
I know it's hard to hear the details, but you won't understand why this crime got so much attention and why it's so hard for my mom to get it out of her head if you don't hear what actually happened.
我知道很难听到细节，但如果你不听实际发生的事情，你就不会明白为什么这起犯罪事件会引起如此多的关注，也不会明白为什么我妈妈很难把这件事从她的脑海中抹去。
So let me try to tell you in a condensed version, for all our sakes, the rest of what happened to my mother that night.
所以，为了我们大家的缘故，让我试着用精简版的方式告诉你们那天晚上发生在我母亲身上的其余事情。
McFadden put my mother in a sleeping bag and took her in her own car to various ATMs to steal her money.
麦克法登把我母亲放在睡袋里，然后用她自己的车把她带到各个自动取款机上偷她的钱。
He beat her when she tried to escape.
当她试图逃跑时，他殴打了她。
There was one point during the night, and this is key, that my mother finally saw him.
那天晚上有一个时刻，这一点很关键，我母亲终于见到了他。
They were standing in front of a bureau that had a mirror hanging over it.
他们站在一个书桌前，上面挂着一面镜子。
They were looking through her jewelry.
他们正在检查她的珠宝。
And I just tipped my head up enough so that my eyes came out from under the towel, and in the mirror I saw him behind me.
我只是把头抬起来，眼睛从毛巾下面露出来，在镜子里我看到了他在我身后。
And he was a black man and he needed a shave.
他是一个黑人，他需要刮胡子。
I remember thinking he is cleaner and neater than you would think a criminal doing all these horrible things would be.
我记得我认为他比你想象的做所有这些可怕事情的罪犯更干净、更整洁。
To me, he was not the stereotypical criminal.
对我来说，他不是典型的罪犯。
At the end of the night, he took my mother to a place we now know was off the Garden State Parkway.
晚上结束时，他带我母亲去了一个我们现在知道位于花园州公路旁的地方。
It's the same spot he took Dana DeMarco two weeks later and where they later found a DeMarco's body.
两周后，他在同一地点带走了达纳·德马科，后来他们又在那里发现了德马科的尸体。
He raped my mother again and then--
他再次强奸了我母亲，然后——
He put both his hands on my neck and started to strangle me.
他双手放在我的脖子上，开始勒死我。
But here's the miracle of all times.
但这是有史以来的奇迹。
I put my hands on top of his and I said in a little voice, what are you doing?
我把手放在他的手上，小声地说，你在做什么？
You're hurting me.
你伤害了我。
And he let go.
然后他放手了。
What do you think happened?
你认为发生了什么？
What do you think happened in that moment?
你认为那一刻发生了什么？
I hate to use the words like bond or love or anything like that, but by then, he felt bonded somehow or other enough to me to respect me.
我讨厌使用“纽带”或“爱”之类的词，但那时，他觉得自己与我有足够的纽带，从而尊重我。
I think he lost the drive.
我认为他失去了动力。
If you're going to kill a lamb, you're going to have to do it very quickly, right?
如果你要杀一只羔羊，你就必须做得非常快，对吧？
Because if you start to look at the lamb or listen to the lamb or play with the lamb, you're not going to hurt it.
因为如果你开始看小羊羔、听小羊羔说话或和小羊羔玩耍，你就不会伤害它。
And I think that's what happened.
我认为这就是发生的事情。
McFadden brought my mother back to her house, bound her hands and feet with tape, and eventually he walked out.
麦克法登把我母亲带回她家，用胶带绑住她的手脚，最后他走了出去。
It was close to 3:00 in the morning when my mother reached for a phone.
凌晨 3:00 左右，妈妈伸手去拿电话。
She called my brother who lived nearby.
她给住在附近的我哥哥打了电话。
And I just flew down that stairs.
我就飞下楼梯了。
I don't even remember my feet hitting the stairs into his arms.
我什至不记得我的脚踩在楼梯上，撞到他的怀里。
And he was screaming and he was spinning around for some reason.
他尖叫着，不知为何还不停地旋转。
He sort of put his arms up over his head and he was just running around and around I'm holding him and grabbing him and trying to stop him.
他把双臂举过头顶，不停地跑来跑去，我抱着他，抓住他，试图阻止他。
And just kept saying, it's OK.
只是一直说，没关系。
It's OK.
没关系。
Get me to the hospital.
送我去医院。
When I got the call that this happened, I packed up my belongings at graduate school and I headed home.
当我接到发生这种情况的电话时，我在研究生院收拾好行李回家。
When I arrived at the hospital the next day and saw her barely recognizable face, my mother tells me I screamed.
第二天我到达医院，看到她几乎认不出来的脸时，我妈妈告诉我，我尖叫起来。
My heart had never been broken like this before.
我的心从来没有像这样破碎过。
I had never been exposed to such violence, never felt the rage that it inspired in me, never imagined I would want revenge like I wanted revenge on Reginald McFadden.
我从未接触过这样的暴力，从未感受到它在我心中激起的愤怒，从未想象过我会像向雷金纳德·麦克法登报仇一样想要报仇。
It's difficult to look beyond the devastating details of what happened to my mother that night, but when I do, I see that in the big picture, other things matter, too.
很难超越那天晚上发生在我母亲身上的毁灭性细节，但当我这样做时，我发现从大局来看，其他事情也很重要。
The fact is crimes like these are rare, but it's crimes like these-- a black man, a repeat offender, attacking a white middle class woman-- that inspires fear and outrage in communities across the country, and crimes like these that change things, which is exactly what happened next.
事实上，这样的犯罪很少见，但正是这样的犯罪——黑人男子、惯犯、攻击白人中产阶级女性——激起了全国各地社区的恐惧和愤怒，而这样的犯罪改变了事情，而这正是接下来发生的事情。
But in the moments before this became swept up in the media, before it became a manhunt, before a jury was selected and a verdict issued, before it ruined some careers and made others, before it was used to change laws, in the moments before all that and in every single moment since, there is simply the unbelievable truth that this happened to my mother.
但在这件事被媒体席卷之前，在它成为一场搜捕之前，在选出陪审团并做出裁决之前，在它毁掉一些人的职业生涯并成就另一些人之前，在它被用来改变法律之前，在这一切之前的时刻以及此后的每一个时刻，这简直是令人难以置信的事实，这发生在我的母亲身上。
Reginald McFadden was found guilty of raping, robbing, and beating a 55-year-old woman.
雷金纳德·麦克法登 (Reginald McFadden) 被判强奸、抢劫和殴打一名 55 岁妇女罪名成立。
McFadden--
麦克法登——
It did not take the jury long to return a verdict yesterday, 15 minutes.
陪审团昨天没花很长时间就做出了裁决，15分钟。
Today's verdict means an end to a long and painful ordeal for the victim in this case.
今天的判决意味着本案受害人漫长而痛苦的磨难结束了。
Most rape victims prefer to remain anonymous, not this 55-year-old social worker.
大多数强奸受害者更愿意保持匿名，但这位 55 岁的社会工作者却不愿意。
My name is Jeremy, Jeremy Brown.
我叫杰里米，杰里米·布朗。
How wonderful it feels to tell you who I am.
告诉你我是谁，感觉真是太棒了。
Once the trial was over, my mother went public.
审判一结束，我母亲就公开了。
She gave speeches, made appearances on TV, she was named the Woman of the Year by CBS.
她发表演讲，上电视，被哥伦比亚广播公司评为年度女性。
Has Jeremy Brown earned the place of honor in the history of rape convictions?
杰里米·布朗在强奸定罪史上赢得了荣誉吗？
She certainly has and she is certainly, I know an inspiration to many of the women who have not had the ability to go forward.
我知道她确实已经做到了，而且确实是这样，这对许多没有能力前进的女性来说是一种鼓舞。
Beyond the amazing fact that she had survived the attack, there was another reason my mother wanted to speak out.
除了她在袭击中幸存这一令人惊讶的事实之外，我母亲想要说出真相还有另一个原因。
It's that she had survived the trial, too.
而是她也从审判中幸存下来。
In one of the most surreal twists of this whole ordeal, Reginald McFadden defended himself in court, which meant he cross-examined my mother.
在整个磨难中最离奇的曲折之一是，雷金纳德·麦克法登在法庭上为自己辩护，这意味着他盘问了我的母亲。
Trial transcripts show exchanges like this.
审判笔录显示了这样的交流。
McFadden asked, but at some time in that night, your attacker got out the car and walked around and closed the door and hollered at you?
麦克法登问道，但那天晚上的某个时候，袭击你的人下了车，走来走去，关上车门，对你大喊大叫？
My mother replied, I think he did, he-- you beat on me from the front seat and I was very scared.
我妈妈回答说，我想他做到了，他——你从前座打我，我很害怕。
I thought you were going to kill me right then.
我当时就以为你要杀了我。
Basically, I'm mad as hell and I got to talk about it.
基本上，我非常生气，我必须谈论它。
Think about being tortured by a stranger for five hours, think about listening to his voice telling you all those disgusting things to do for five hours.
想象一下被一个陌生人折磨了五个小时，想象一下听着他的声音告诉你五个小时里要做那些恶心的事情。
And then you have to sit in a courtroom, listen to people call him Mr. McFadden.
然后你必须坐在法庭上，听人们称他为麦克法登先生。
Think what it would do to you to have him say your name.
想想如果让他说出你的名字会对你产生什么影响。
My mother shared her story because she felt better when she did, or at least less alone.
我母亲分享了她的故事，因为当她分享时，她感觉好多了，或者至少不那么孤独了。
And because she hoped that by speaking out, it might change things for herself, for others.
因为她希望通过说出来，可以改变自己和他人的事情。
The day after McFadden sentencing, I returned to graduate school.
麦克法登宣判后的第二天，我回到了研究生院。
Eventually, my mother started working again as an addiction counselor.
最终，我母亲再次开始担任毒瘾咨询师。
She even moved back into her house.
她甚至搬回了自己的房子。
It wasn't easy, but it was important, she said, that he not take the house away from her.
她说，这并不容易，但很重要，他不能把房子从她身边夺走。
When I set out to interview people, I started with my mom, and then I drew up a list of names-- cops, politicians, journalists, academics, other victims, and my brother.
当我开始采访人们时，我从我的妈妈开始，然后我列出了一份名单——警察、政客、记者、学者、其他受害者和我的兄弟。
Are you nervous?
你紧张吗？
Tim Broun Not really, no.
蒂姆·布劳恩 不完全是，不。
Are you uncomfortable?
你不舒服吗？
Tim Broun I'm a little impatient, so, yes.
Tim Broun 我有点不耐烦，所以，是的。
OK.
好的。
OK.
好的。
Anyway, I wanted to say-- so you're chewing your gum.
不管怎样，我想说——所以你在嚼口香糖。
I know, but you're talking.
我知道，但你在说话。
Samantha Broun But I can hear it.
萨曼莎·布劳恩 但我能听到。
OK.
好的。
Samantha Broun Tim is older than me, but only by 15 months.
Samantha Broun Tim 比我大，但只大 15 个月。
It's an age difference that has stopped mattering now that we're both approaching 50.
现在我们都快50岁了，年龄差异已经不再重要了。
You probably remember that Tim was the first person to see my mom the night she was attacked.
你可能还记得蒂姆是我妈妈遭到袭击的那天晚上第一个见到她的人。
In 20 years, we've never discussed any of it.
20年来，我们从未讨论过任何事情。
Do you have any questions about it that you've never had answers?
您是否有任何疑问但从未得到答案？
No. I don't.
不，我不。
You know, part of me is like, I guess, maybe I'm in denial about it.
你知道，我的一部分感觉，我想，也许我否认这一点。
I don't know.
我不知道。
But a lot of people have been through a lot of really bad shit and that includes seeing people killed, car accidents, going to war, physical abuse, you name it.
但很多人都经历过很多非常糟糕的事情，包括亲眼目睹人们被杀、车祸、战争、身体虐待等等。
It's all out there, you know, so I don't think about why or why my mother or it's a fucking horrible thing that happened, really bad, but she's alive and, you know, she's completely physically capable person who's living a full and rich life.
一切都在那里，你知道，所以我不会去想为什么或为什么我的母亲，或者发生了一件他妈的可怕的事情，真的很糟糕，但她还活着，你知道，她是一个完全有身体能力的人，过着充实而丰富的生活。
And it was a long time ago.
那是很久以前的事了。
But as far as I know, I don't carry it around with me as some weight or stone or what have you.
但据我所知，我不会把它当作重物、石头或其他什么东西随身携带。
I do still carry it with me.
我仍然随身携带它。
Sometimes, it sits so quietly, I think it might be gone.
有时，它静静地坐着，我想它可能已经消失了。
But other times, it courses through my system with such surprise and force, it makes me dizzy.
但其他时候，它会以如此令人惊讶和力量的方式穿过我的系统，让我头晕目眩。
It happens in mundane moments.
它发生在平凡的时刻。
Like recently, my mom called from a highway rest stop to say hello and that she just bought a hot dog.
就像最近，我妈妈从高速公路休息站打来电话打招呼，说她刚买了一个热狗。
It suddenly hits me she survived a serial killer.
我突然想到她从连环杀手中幸存下来。
And the reality of what could have happened overwhelms me.
可能发生的事情的现实让我不知所措。
I explained to Tim that I'm headed out to find the others who were affected by this event.
我向蒂姆解释说，我要去寻找受此事件影响的其他人。
I tell them I have questions I want answered and I think talking to others will help somehow.
我告诉他们我有一些问题想要解答，我认为与其他人交谈会有所帮助。
I tell him I think about forgiveness.
我告诉他我正在考虑宽恕。
I hope that doesn't seem crazy, but that's what we're taught, right?
我希望这看起来并不疯狂，但这就是我们所学到的，对吗？
That if we can forgive, we get some sort of relief.
如果我们能够原谅，我们就会得到某种解脱。
But how do you do that?
但你如何做到这一点呢？
I know my mother is very clear.
我知道妈妈是很清楚的。
She'll never forgive McFadden and I could guess about my brother.
她永远不会原谅麦克法登，我可以猜测我的兄弟。
No. Samantha Broun Do you think you need to or want to?
不，萨曼莎·布劳恩（Samantha Broun）您认为您需要或想要吗？
Me?
我？
Not particularly.
不是特别。
Fuck him.
操他。
I don't give a shit about him.
我根本不在乎他。
I don't even really like discussing it, to be honest with you, although this has been OK.
老实说，我什至不太喜欢讨论它，尽管这已经很好了。
I wish I have a little bit of that.
我希望我有一点这样的东西。
I mean, I'm doing the opposite thing here.
我的意思是，我在这里做相反的事情。
I'm like talking to lots of people.
我喜欢和很多人说话。
What do you think of that?
你对此有何看法？
What do you think about me talking like--
你觉得我这样说话怎么样——
I'm kind of curious what the point of the whole project is, but go for it, you know.
我有点好奇整个项目的意义是什么，但你知道，去做吧。
Let's see where it goes.
让我们看看它去哪里了。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Good for you.
对你有好处。
Better you than me.
你比我更好。
I hope he's right.
我希望他是对的。
Near the top of my list of people to talk to were the men who had voted on McFadden's commutation from prison in Pennsylvania.
在我要交谈的人名单中排名靠前的是那些投票支持麦克法登从宾夕法尼亚州监狱减刑的人。
Some background first.
首先介绍一些背景。
Pretty much the only way out for lifers in Pennsylvania, besides escape or death, is to have their sentence commuted.
对于宾夕法尼亚州的无期徒刑者来说，除了越狱或死亡之外，几乎唯一的出路就是减刑。
Historically, commutation has been common practice there.
从历史上看，减刑是那里的常见做法。
It serves as a release valve, a way to reward good behavior, and give prisoners sentenced to life hope for a second chance.
它充当释放阀，奖励良好行为的一种方式，并为被判死刑的囚犯提供第二次机会。
After serving 25 to 30 years of a life sentence, if lifers show remorse and behave themselves in prison, they have a shot at commutation.
在服完25至30年的无期徒刑后，如果无期徒刑者表现出悔意并在监狱中表现良好，他们就有机会获得减刑。
The crime McFadden was seeking commutation for happened in 1969.
麦克法登寻求减刑的罪行发生在 1969 年。
He was convicted of the burglary and murder of Sonia Rosenbaum, a 60-year-old woman in Philadelphia.
他被判入室盗窃并谋杀费城 60 岁妇女索尼娅·罗森鲍姆 (Sonia Rosenbaum)。
McFadden committed the crime with three other teenagers.
麦克法登与另外三名青少年一起犯罪。
He was 16, at the time.
当时他16岁。
His record was already filled with over a dozen arrests.
他的记录已经被逮捕了十几次。
And for this crime, he was sentenced to life without parole.
而他也因此罪名被判处终身监禁，不得假释。
By 1992, McFadden had been in prison for just over 20 years.
到 1992 年，麦克法登已经在监狱里待了 20 多年。
He had applied for commutation seven times with no luck.
他曾七次申请减刑，但都没有成功。
The eighth time was different.
第八次就不一样了。
He succeeded.
他成功了。
I was very skeptical to my fellow pardons board members.
我对赦免委员会的其他成员非常怀疑。
Republican Ernest Preate was the Attorney General for Pennsylvania in the late '80s, early '90s.
共和党人欧内斯特·普雷特 (Ernest Preate) 在 80 年代末、90 年代初担任宾夕法尼亚州总检察长。
He was the only person to vote no on McFadden's commutation.
他是唯一对麦克法登减刑投反对票的人。
I said, I don't like this guy.
我说，我不喜欢这个人。
I don't think he's ready to go.
我认为他还没有准备好走。
Very, very hesitant to recommend him to the governor.
非常非常犹豫是否要把他推荐给州长。
Preate thought McFadden was too young, just 39, and that he could easily go on to commit other crimes.
普雷特认为麦克法登太年轻，只有 39 岁，他很容易继续犯下其他罪行。
He told me something else that shed light on the case.
他还告诉了我一些有助于了解此案的事情。
Apparently, the Department of Corrections supported McFadden, because McFadden had ratted on fellow prisoners during violent riots that erupted at the Camp Hill prison in the 1980s.
显然，惩教署支持麦克法登，因为麦克法登在 20 世纪 80 年代坎普山监狱爆发的暴力骚乱期间诽谤其他囚犯。
The department was recommending, the Department of Corrections, was recommending him so that this was part of the payback to McFadden was we'll recommend you for a commutation, because you've been helpful to us in dealing with the riot at Camp Hill.
该部门正在推荐，惩教署正在推荐他，所以这是对麦克法登的回报的一部分，我们会推荐你减刑，因为你在处理坎普山骚乱时对我们有帮助。
Nearly everyone I spoke with mentioned that McFadden's cooperation at Camp Hill helped him get his commutation.
几乎所有与我交谈过的人都提到麦克法登在坎普希尔的合作帮助他获得了减刑。
I have a feeling it's going to be grueling
我有预感这会很辛苦
I'm scared of something.
我害怕一些东西。
I don't know what it is.
我不知道那是什么。
Well, I'm nervous about this.
嗯，我对此很紧张。
I mean, I have thought a lot about you over the last 20 years.
我的意思是，在过去的 20 年里，我对你想了很多。
Five people sit on the Pennsylvania board of pardons.
宾夕法尼亚州赦免委员会有五人。
When McFadden applied for commutation in 1992, Democrat Mark Singel was the Lieutenant Governor and the head of the board.
1992年麦克法登申请减刑时，民主党人马克·辛格尔担任副州长兼董事会主席。
Although his vote counted the same as everyone else's, it was Mark Singel, more than anyone, who was blamed for what happened once McFadden got out.
尽管他的选票与其他人的票数相同，但马克·辛格尔比任何人都更因麦克法登出狱后发生的事情而受到指责。
He was the former board member I most wanted to talk to.
他是我最想与之交谈的前董事会成员。
When I thought of other people who must be haunted by this event, I thought Mark Singel.
当我想到其他一定被这件事困扰的人时，我想到了马克·辛格尔。
The Board of Pardons was always skeptical.
赦免委员会始终持怀疑态度。
I mean, the numbers of people that we even consider was minuscule, microscopic.
我的意思是，我们所考虑的人数是微乎其微的。
The board never met Reginald McFadden.
董事会从未见过雷金纳德·麦克法登。
Amazingly, that wasn't part of the commutation process in Pennsylvania.
令人惊讶的是，这并不是宾夕法尼亚州减刑过程的一部分。
But others spoke on his behalf, and McFadden had to submit piles of paperwork, including descriptions of past crimes, names of current sponsors, and accomplishments in prison.
但其他人代表他发言，麦克法登必须提交成堆的文件，包括对过去犯罪的描述、当前资助者的姓名以及在监狱中取得的成就。
What I recall about the McFadden presentation was that everybody was on board.
我对麦克法登演讲的记忆是，每个人都参与其中。
The psychologist and the warden and the corrections people were all saying that this is somebody who had done extraordinarily well.
心理医生、监狱长、管教人员都说这是一个做得非常好的人。
The board voted 4 to 1 in favor of McFadden's commutation.
董事会以 4 比 1 的投票结果赞成麦克法登的减刑。
Singel voted yes.
辛格尔投了赞成票。
He believed he was doing the right thing.
他相信自己正在做正确的事。
I have to tell you that my own personal background, I grew up in a very Catholic and a specific type of Catholicism, Byzantine Catholic.
我必须告诉你，我自己的个人背景，我是在一个非常天主教和一种特定类型的天主教，拜占庭天主教中长大的。
When we were very young, the whole family would go in and sing the mass every day in old Slavonic and the phrase that we would sing over 100 times during the liturgy was Gospodi pomilui, Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy.
当我们很小的时候，全家人每天都会进去用古斯拉夫语唱弥撒，在礼拜仪式中我们会唱超过100遍的短语是Gospodi pomilui，主怜悯，主怜悯。
And my family believed in that.
我的家人也相信这一点。
That makes you emotional.
这让你情绪激动。
Mark Singel Yeah, yeah.
马克·辛格尔 是的，是的。
So you felt like here you were in a position to have mercy on people.
所以你觉得在这里你能够怜悯人们。
To do my job as a human being, not just as the Lieutenant Governor.
作为一个人，而不仅仅是作为副州长，履行我的职责。
When McFadden walked out of prison, he was 41 and had never spent a day of his adult life as a free man.
当麦克法登走出监狱时，他已经 41 岁了，成年后从未以自由人的身份度过过一天。
Surprisingly, McFadden didn't go to a halfway house, a bureaucratic oversight.
令人惊讶的是，麦克法登并没有去中途宿舍，这是官僚机构的疏忽。
McFadden's transition didn't go well.
麦克法登的转变并不顺利。
Within a month, he went through two or three jobs and started stealing from his roommate.
一个月之内，他换了两三份工作，并开始从室友那里偷东西。
Within two months, he started to spiral out of control, killing Robert Silk, Margaret Kierer, and Dana DeMarco, and of course, attacking my mom.
两个月内，他开始失去控制，杀死了罗伯特·西尔克、玛格丽特·基尔和达纳·德马科，当然，还攻击了我的妈妈。
During the first week of October, just 92 days after he was released from prison, Reginald McFadden was arrested as the prime suspect of these crimes.
10 月的第一周，即出狱仅 92 天后，雷金纳德·麦克法登作为这些罪行的主要嫌疑人被捕。
News of McFadden's arrest arrived in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania where Democrat, Mark Singel, was ahead in the governor's race against Republican Tom Ridge.
麦克法登被捕的消息传到宾夕法尼亚州哈里斯堡，民主党人马克·辛格尔在州长竞选中领先共和党人汤姆·里奇。
In October of 1994, Tom Ridge wasn't well-known, not even in Pennsylvania.
1994 年 10 月，汤姆·里奇 (Tom Ridge) 并不出名，甚至在宾夕法尼亚州也不出名。
He was a Congressman representing a small rural district.
他是代表一个乡村小区的国会议员。
Mark Singel, on the other hand, had been the Lieutenant Governor for nearly eight years.
另一方面，马克·辛格尔已经担任副州长近八年了。
The feeling across the state was that Mark Singel was a shoo-in.
全州都认为马克·辛格尔是稳操胜券。
So they were ready to just simply transfer the mantle and I could feel it all across Pennsylvania.
所以他们准备好简单地转移衣钵，我可以在整个宾夕法尼亚州感受到它。
Tom Ridge never got close, never got close.
汤姆·里奇从来没有接近过，从来没有接近过。
And then McFadden happened.
然后麦克法登发生了。
Mark Singel And all they had to do was to put an ad up and put McFadden's picture out there, say see?
马克·辛格尔（Mark Singel）：他们所要做的就是登一个广告，把麦克法登的照片放在那里，看到了吗？
We told you.
我们告诉过你了。
This is what happens when you're weak on crime.
当你对犯罪行为较弱时就会发生这种情况。
Mark Singel votes to free a convicted murderer.
马克·辛格尔投票释放一名被定罪的杀人犯。
The man Mark Singel voted to free is arrested for rape and murder.
投票获释的马克·辛格尔因强奸和谋杀罪被捕。
Mark Singel, bad judgement, too liberal on crime.
马克·辛格尔，判断力差，对犯罪过于宽容。
How can we ever trust him again?
我们怎样才能再次相信他呢？
There's a better choice, Tom Ridge.
有更好的选择，汤姆·里奇。
The judgement and character we trust.
我们信任的判断力和品格。
And then, everything shifted.
然后，一切都发生了变化。
The whole tectonic plates of my universe changed and we watched that campaign disintegrate.
我的宇宙的整个板块发生了变化，我们目睹了这场运动的瓦解。
It went from an eight point lead to us being seven points behind in 48 hours.
48 小时内，我们从领先 8 分变成落后 7 分。
15 point swing.
15点摆动。
I've never, ever seen that in politics.
我在政治上从来没有见过这样的情况。
Mark Singel's career as a politician was over and Tom Ridge's was about to soar.
马克·辛格尔的政治生涯已经结束，汤姆·里奇的政治生涯即将腾飞。
It took months and a lot of persistence to land an interview with Ridge.
我花了几个月的时间和很大的毅力才得到里奇的采访。
My understanding is that from what I've read and from what I remember that Reginald McFadden was a real turning point in the election.
我的理解是，根据我所读到的和我所记得的，雷金纳德·麦克法登是选举中真正的转折点。
Do you see it that way?
你是这样看的吗？
Well I can't, I mean, I can't doubt that it had an impact, but from my perspective, what it did for me was put an exclamation point on what I've been talking about for over a year.
好吧，我不能，我的意思是，我不能怀疑它产生了影响，但从我的角度来看，它为我所做的就是给我一年多来一直在谈论的事情加上一个感叹号。
I met Tom Ridge in a huge suite of offices in downtown Washington DC, where he now runs a security consulting firm.
我在华盛顿市中心的一间巨大办公室里遇见了汤姆·里奇，他现在在那里经营着一家安全咨询公司。
In 2001, George W.
2001 年，乔治·W.
Bush asked Ridge to leave his post as Governor of Pennsylvania and to join him at the White House to head up what would become the new Department of Homeland Security.
布什要求里奇辞去宾夕法尼亚州州长的职务，并与他一起入主白宫，领导新成立的国土安全部。
But back in 1995, having beaten Mark Singel in the election, Tom Ridge was being sworn in as the Governor of Pennsylvania.
但早在 1995 年，汤姆·里奇 (Tom Ridge) 在选举中击败马克·辛格尔 (Mark Singel) 后，宣誓就任宾夕法尼亚州州长。
The main thing that won the election was his stance on crime.
赢得选举的主要因素是他对犯罪的立场。
And so once elected, what did you feel your mandate was then on this issue?
那么一旦当选，您认为您在这个问题上的任务是什么？
Well I told cloaks, if you elect me, one of the first things that I'm going to do, I'm going to call a special session on crime and that's exactly what we did.
好吧，我告诉斗篷，如果你选举我，我要做的第一件事就是召开一次关于犯罪问题的特别会议，这正是我们所做的。
The same special session on crime that I testified in, the same special session that focused on getting tough and, essentially, putting an end to any chance of commutation for lifers.
我在同一场关于犯罪的特别会议上作证，同一场特别会议的重点是采取强硬措施，从本质上讲，结束终身监禁者的任何减刑机会。
Here's the thing, this was the mid '90s.
事情是这样的，那是 90 年代中期。
Crime was one of the top issues on most voters' minds in Pennsylvania and across the country.
犯罪是宾夕法尼亚州和全国大多数选民最关心的问题之一。
People wanted to feel safe.
人们想要感到安全。
For Tom Ridge, who was already running as a tough on crime candidate, Reginald McFadden's spree was, strange to say, perfectly timed.
对于汤姆·里奇（Tom Ridge）来说，他已经是一名严厉打击犯罪的候选人，雷金纳德·麦克法登（Reginald McFadden）的狂欢，奇怪的是，恰逢其时。
Although sprees like McFadden's are extremely rare, it had the exact class and racial components to draw in the media and incite public hysteria.
尽管像麦克法登这样的狂欢极其罕见，但它确实具有阶级和种族成分，可以吸引媒体并煽动公众歇斯底里。
A lot of people who I've spoken to talk about the constitutional changes that went into effect as a result of the special session and that that makes it nearly impossible for people to have their sentence commuted.
我采访过的很多人都谈到了特别会议之后生效的宪法修改，这使得人们几乎不可能减刑。
And I, as a person who testified at that special session and perhaps contributed to those changes being made, I think about that a lot, because I think about the lives that are being impacted.
而我，作为一个在那次特别会议上作证并可能为正在发生的这些变化做出贡献的人，我思考了很多，因为我思考了正在受到影响的生活。
Do you ever think about those changes and wonder if, perhaps, they're too strict or wonder about the impact of those changes and the reduced number of people getting commuted?
您是否考虑过这些变化，并想知道它们是否过于严格，或者想知道这些变化的影响以及通勤人数减少的影响？
Candidly, that's a fair question and I haven't given it much thought.
坦率地说，这是一个公平的问题，我没有考虑太多。
But most of my opinions I hold today, I held 20 or 30 years ago, but not all of them.
但我今天所持有的大部分观点，都是我在 20 或 30 年前所持有的，但不是全部。
So.
所以。
I've asked everybody this question and I think all the people that I'm meeting with are-- I'm choosing because I believe this incident changed their life personally, and I'm wondering how you think this incident, McFadden, changed your life, personally?
我问过每个人这个问题，我想我会见的所有人都是——我选择这个问题是因为我相信这件事改变了他们个人的生活，我想知道你认为这件事，麦克法登，如何改变了你个人的生活？
I hope you're not disappointed, but I'm not sure it did.
我希望你不会失望，但我不确定是否会失望。
It changed your mother's life, it changed the lives of many families.
它改变了你母亲的生活，也改变了许多家庭的生活。
It's certainly in a positive way I'd like to think changed the lives of hundreds, if not thousands, of other families and victims, but for me personally, the only thing it did was to re-affirm in my own mind that the approach I took towards reforming some of the criminal justice system was the right thing to do.
我认为这当然以积极的方式改变了数百个（如果不是数千个）其他家庭和受害者的生活，但对我个人而言，它所做的唯一一件事就是在我自己的脑海中重申，我为改革某些刑事司法系统而采取的方法是正确的。
I think my personal connection to all this made some of the people I interviewed nervous and careful.
我认为我个人与这一切的联系让我采访的一些人感到紧张和谨慎。
That's understandable and it made me all the more grateful to Mark Singel, the guy who lost the election, for the way he talked to me, like when I asked him difficult questions like this one.
这是可以理解的，这让我更加感谢马克·辛格尔（Mark Singel），那个输掉选举的人，感谢他与我交谈的方式，就像当我问他这样的难题时。
If you had the chance to say something to my mom or to the family members of the other--
如果你有机会对我妈妈或对方的家人说些什么——
Just that I'm terribly sorry.
只是我非常抱歉。
That I feel to the people who were the immediate victims I hurt them and I didn't mean to.
我觉得那些直接受害者是我伤害了他们，但我并不是故意的。
So there you have it.
这样你就得到了。
Hearing Mark Singel say this eased something in me.
听到马克·辛格尔这么说，我心里松了口气。
My mother felt the same way when I played it for her.
当我为她演奏时，我母亲也有同样的感觉。
That's wonderful that he expressed such personal feelings with you, because that's the human being.
他向你表达了如此个人的感受真是太好了，因为这就是人。
The last time we talked and we went through what happened on September 21st, how is that for you?
上次我们谈话时，我们回顾了 9 月 21 日发生的事情，您觉得怎么样？
I think it went pretty well.
我认为进展顺利。
I do.
我愿意。
Is it difficult for me to share it or to revisit it?
对我来说分享或重温它很难吗？
No. It's a reality for me.
不，这对我来说是现实。
I guess some difficulty is carrying it around and--
我猜携带它有些困难，而且——
What are the scars you have from this?
你因此而留下的伤疤是什么？
I don't know if you actually have physical scars, but any kind of scars.
我不知道你是否真的有身体上的伤疤，但任何类型的伤疤都可以。
What are the scars that you have?
你身上有哪些伤疤？
What does it mean for you not to be able to sing?
不能唱歌对你来说意味着什么？
Well, I was a bird who could sing.
嗯，我是一只会唱歌的鸟。
I can sing, right?
我会唱歌，对吗？
But I cry, so it stops me and that's very painful because that was who I was.
但我哭了，所以它阻止了我，这非常痛苦，因为我就是这样的人。
I was a girl who was born with a voice and I could sing and I can't now.
我是一个天生就有声音的女孩，我可以唱歌，但现在不能了。
It's true.
这是真的。
My mother was not only a singer on Broadway, but she used to be one of those people who would break into song in public places.
我的母亲不仅是百老汇的一名歌手，而且她曾经是那些在公共场所唱歌的人之一。
I haven't heard that in years.
我已经好几年没听过这个了。
By this time, I'd been working on this project for well over a year.
此时，我已经为这个项目工作了一年多。
I still had people I wanted to talk to-- prison staff, former inmates, and people close to McFadden, like Charlotte.
我仍然有想交谈的人——监狱工作人员、前囚犯以及与麦克法登关系密切的人，比如夏洛特。
Let me just say I really appreciate that you're sitting here, because I've thought about you for a long time, your family, and it took me 20 years to pick up the phone and figure out where you were.
我只想说，我真的很感激你坐在这里，因为我想念你、你的家人很久了，我花了20年才拿起电话才知道你在哪里。
And even once I thought I knew your number, it took me a long time to make the call.
即使我以为我知道你的电话号码，我也花了很长时间才拨通电话。
And then I felt bad every time I called back because I thought they don't want to talk to me, you know.
然后每次我回电话时我都感觉很糟糕，因为我认为他们不想和我说话，你知道。
And you know what is true?
你知道什么是真的吗？
You still want to led you right, but look where it put you.
你仍然想引导你走向正确的方向，但看看它把你带到了哪里。
It was mid-July, hot, and I was sitting in a car with Charlotte McFadden, Reginald's youngest sister.
那是七月中旬，天气炎热，我和雷金纳德最小的妹妹夏洛特·麦克法登坐在车里。
We were in front of her house in Philadelphia, the house McFadden grew up in.
我们在她位于费城的房子前面，麦克法登就是在那里长大的。
Charlotte had no idea I was coming, neither did I, until I decided to the day before.
夏洛特不知道我会来，我自己也不知道，直到我前一天决定。
When I got there, she was out on the street working with a neighbor under the hood of her car.
当我到达那里时，她正在街上和一位邻居在她的汽车引擎盖下工作。
I saw her and immediately knew she was a McFadden.
我一看到她就知道她是麦克法登家族的人。
She knew who I was, too.
她也知道我是谁。
I felt it.
我感觉到了。
That's why I turned my back because I couldn't look at you because I felt it, too.
这就是为什么我转过身去，因为我无法看着你，因为我也感觉到了。
It was an awkward beginning, but we ended up talking for over an hour.
这是一个尴尬的开始，但我们最终聊了一个多小时。
I asked her how things have been for her all these years.
我问她这些年过得怎么样。
I still, like inside hurts.
我仍然喜欢内心受伤。
I'm in here hurting because I have to squeeze it down just to get through.
我在这里很痛苦，因为我必须把它压下去才能通过。
Even like now, like when I go to use my name, certain bells get rung because people say McFadden.
即使像现在一样，就像当我使用我的名字时，某些铃声会响起，因为人们说麦克法登。
Charlotte talked about her brother and what his crimes had done to her family.
夏洛特谈到了她的哥哥以及他的罪行对她的家人造成的影响。
She said he was pretty young when he started getting into trouble, but for her, he was always her protector.
她说，他开始惹麻烦时还很年轻，但对她来说，他永远是她的保护者。
Charlotte had questions for me, too.
夏洛特也有问题问我。
Your mom, like, I would love to give her a hug and let her know that I'm glad she survived it and everything is OK, but I know somewhere in her head, she got to be still going through a turmoil.
你妈妈，就像，我很想给她一个拥抱，让她知道我很高兴她活了下来，一切都很好，但我知道在她脑子里的某个地方，她一定仍在经历混乱。
It's hard, probably, very hard for her and it's understandable.
这对她来说可能很难，非常难，这是可以理解的。
Yeah.
是的。
Charlotte You know, it is very understandable.
夏洛特 你知道，这是非常可以理解的。
Is she OK now?
她现在还好吗？
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
I can imagine.
我可以想象。
Samantha Broun Do you think-- I think about forgiveness a lot, because I would really like to forgive your brother.
萨曼莎·布劳恩（Samantha Broun）你认为——我经常考虑宽恕，因为我真的很想宽恕你的兄弟。
And I think that's part of me doing this, too, is I want to understand him and why he did what he did.
我认为这也是我这样做的一部分，我想了解他以及他为什么这么做。
And I think if I could forgive him, I'd feel better.
我想如果我能原谅他，我会感觉好一些。
I feel like I walk towards it, but when I talk to my mom and see how she carries it, I feel like I might be disloyal to her if I forgave him.
我觉得我正在朝着这个目标迈进，但当我和妈妈交谈并看到她如何承受它时，我觉得如果我原谅他，我可能会对她不忠。
Coming up, approaching McFadden.
快来了，接近麦克法登了。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
This American Life, Ira Glass.
《美国生活》，艾拉·格拉斯。
All this hour, we're hearing Samantha Broun's story.
整整一个小时，我们都在听萨曼莎·布朗的故事。
We're visiting a crime committed two decades ago by Reginald McFadden and its aftermath.
我们正在探访雷金纳德·麦克法登二十年前犯下的罪行及其后果。
Again, here's Samantha.
再说一次，这是萨曼莎。
Interviewing McFadden himself was something I'd always thought about.
采访麦克法登本人是我一直在考虑的事情。
And after talking with Charlotte, I felt it was the obvious next step.
与夏洛特交谈后，我觉得这是显而易见的下一步。
I wanted to sit across from him.
我想坐在他对面。
I needed to hear if he was remorseful.
我需要听听他是否悔恨。
If he was remorseful and I could believe him, maybe that would help, maybe.
如果他悔恨而我可以相信他，也许会有帮助。
But when I called Attica, the prison in New York where he is now, to ask about interviewing him, I was told that McFadden is in solitary confinement.
但当我打电话给麦克法登现在所在的纽约阿提卡监狱询问采访他的事宜时，我被告知麦克法登被单独监禁。
He'll be there for five years.
他将在那里待五年。
He had pulled a fake gun on prison guards.
他向狱警拔出了一把假枪。
He had planned to escape.
他原本打算逃跑。
On top of that, prison officials and crime victim advocates expressed concern about my wanting to talk to him.
最重要的是，监狱官员和犯罪受害者权益倡导者对我想与他交谈表示担忧。
They described McFadden as manipulative and unpredictable, and I began to fear he might say things about what happened that night that I wouldn't want to hear.
他们形容麦克法登控制欲强、不可预测，我开始担心他可能会说出我不想听的关于那天晚上发生的事情。
Still, I tried several avenues to get to him through the Department of Corrections, but I was denied permission to record.
尽管如此，我还是尝试了多种途径通过惩教署联系到他，但录音的许可被拒绝。
I do have some courtroom audio of him during the period of his murder convictions, just to give you an idea of who he was then.
我确实有一些他被判谋杀罪期间的法庭录音，只是为了让你了解他当时是谁。
The music was added by a TV show it was used on.
该音乐是由使用它的电视节目添加的。
I guess this is an opportunity for me to say I'm remorseful, I'm sorry.
我想这是一个机会让我表达我的悔恨，对不起。
Well, I'm not remorseful and I'm not sorry because I'm not guilty.
好吧，我不后悔，也不后悔，因为我没有罪。
OK.
好的。
Give me the maximum sentence.
给我最高刑罚。
Matter of fact, give me 1,000 years because it wouldn't make a difference.
事实上，给我一千年，因为这不会有什么不同。
Oh, if it was possible for me to sign my own death warrant, I don't fear death because I've seen death 1,000 times over.
哦，如果我可以签署自己的死刑令，我就不会害怕死亡，因为我已经见过死亡一千次了。
It don't make a difference to me.
这对我来说没有什么区别。
Humph.
哼。
Since I couldn't record a conversation with McFadden, I tracked down someone who had spent time with him, Mark Safarik, a former profiler with the FBI, who classified McFadden as a psychopath.
由于我无法记录与麦克法登的对话，我找到了一个曾与他共度时光的人，马克·萨法里克（Mark Safarik），他是联邦调查局的前侧写师，他将麦克法登归类为精神病患者。
In my fantasy version of all of this, I was going to end up going to meet him and we'd have a conversation in which he had some remorse and that would help.
在我对这一切的幻想版本中，我最终会去见他，我们会进行一次谈话，其中他有一些悔恨，这会有所帮助。
And he, honestly, might tell you that he's remorseful and sorry for what he did.
老实说，他可能会告诉你，他对自己的所作所为感到懊悔和抱歉。
I don't believe that that would be true.
我不相信那是真的。
And he will clearly understand who you are and, in a sense, why you're there and I think he would make an effort to twist that in a way that would be harmful and hurtful.
他会清楚地了解你是谁，从某种意义上讲，你为什么在那里，我认为他会努力以一种有害的方式扭曲这一点。
I don't think anything good could come out of it.
我认为这不会产生什么好结果。
So how is there resolution?
那么分辨率如何呢？
Because I don't feel it.
因为我没感觉。
Yeah, I don't know that there is.
是的，我不知道有这样的东西。
What's the resolution, you know?
决心是什么，你知道吗？
He's incarcerated for the rest of his life.
他的余生将被监禁。
Was it a mistake to let him out?
让他出去是不是一个错误？
Absolutely.
绝对地。
He should never have been let out.
他根本不应该被释放。
But I don't know that there's ever any resolution.
但我不知道是否有任何解决方案。
I think, certainly, the edges of those wounds get softer, but those wounds never go away.
我认为，当然，这些伤口的边缘会变得更软，但这些伤口永远不会消失。
They never heal.
他们永远不会痊愈。
Talking to Mark Safarik, I understood, or maybe I should say I finally accepted, that I'd never get what I wanted from McFadden.
在与马克·萨法里克交谈时，我明白了，或者也许我应该说我终于接受了，我永远不会从麦克法登那里得到我想要的东西。
I'm not going to see him express remorse.
我不会看到他表达悔意。
What I'm left with is my own remorse for something I feel guilty about and that's what has happened to lifers in Pennsylvania.
我留下的只是我自己对我感到内疚的事情的悔恨，这就是宾夕法尼亚州无期徒刑者所发生的事情。
That may sound weird, but I know my testimony contributed to their current situation.
这听起来可能很奇怪，但我知道我的证词促成了他们目前的处境。
Each of you is in a position to do something.
你们每个人都有能力做某事。
You will have the opportunity to vote on legislative changes that would reduce the chances of something like this from ever happening again.
您将有机会对立法变更进行投票，以减少类似事件再次发生的可能性。
You owe it to Sonia Rosenbaum, to Margaret Kierer, to Robert Silk, and to my mother.
这要归功于索尼娅·罗森鲍姆、玛格丽特·基勒、罗伯特·西尔克和我的母亲。
My words may have made only a small contribution to the changes that were to come, but they were still part of it.
我的话可能对即将发生的变化只做出了很小的贡献，但它们仍然是其中的一部分。
As a result of that Special Session on Crime, the Pennsylvania State Constitution was amended to make recommendation for a commuted sentence nearly impossible.
作为犯罪问题特别会议的结果，宾夕法尼亚州宪法被修改，使得减刑的建议几乎不可能。
On top of that, for decades now, no politician has wanted to vote yes on commutations for fear of professional suicide.
最重要的是，几十年来，没有政治家愿意对减刑投赞成票，因为担心职业自杀。
And remember, all this happened in the 1990s, the Tough on Crime era.
请记住，这一切都发生在 20 世纪 90 年代，严厉打击犯罪的时代。
The result, the door slammed shut on lifers.
结果，无期徒刑的大门突然关上了。
What I do remember, most of all, is that during the first year that I was the head of corrections in Pennsylvania, the first 12 months, and I remember feeling like the little Dutch boy with his finger in the dike.
我所记得的最重要的是，在我担任宾夕法尼亚州惩教所负责人的第一年，前 12 个月，我记得感觉就像那个将手指插在堤坝上的荷兰小男孩。
I mean, we just sort of creating space as quickly as we could.
我的意思是，我们只是尽快创造空间。
It was a very dramatic time.
那是一个非常戏剧性的时刻。
Martin Horn was Pennsylvania's Secretary of Corrections under Tom Ridge.
马丁·霍恩 (Martin Horn) 是汤姆·里奇 (Tom Ridge) 领导下的宾夕法尼亚州惩教部长。
When the changes were put into place, it was Horn who had to deal with what those changes meant inside the prisons.
当这些变化实施后，霍恩必须处理这些变化在监狱内意味着什么。
Lifers in the Pennsylvania system are actually a very stabilizing force.
宾夕法尼亚州系统中的终身受益人实际上是一支非常稳定的力量。
They have an interest in the civility of life within the prison, if you will, but the lifers during those several years that I was there, were really demoralized and saw no hope of ever getting out.
如果你愿意的话，他们对监狱内的文明生活很感兴趣，但我在那里的那几年里，那些无期徒刑犯真的士气低落，看不到出狱的希望。
And a prisoner without hope is a much more difficult prisoner to manage than a prisoner who has some hope.
一个没有希望的囚犯比一个有希望的囚犯更难管理。
My name is Tyrone Werts.
我叫蒂龙·沃茨。
I've served close to 37 years incarcerated in the Graterford prison in Pennsylvania.
我在宾夕法尼亚州格拉特福德监狱服刑近 37 年。
My sentence was commuted in 2010 by former Governor Rendell.
2010 年，前州长伦德尔为我减刑。
I've been home about three years and a couple of months.
我回家已经三年零几个月了。
In 1975, Tyrone Werts was involved with a robbery.
1975 年，蒂龙·沃茨 (Tyrone Werts) 卷入一起抢劫案。
Someone was killed in the process.
在此过程中有人被杀。
Werts, who was waiting in the car, was given life without parole for second degree murder.
沃茨当时在车里等候，因二级谋杀罪被判处终身监禁，不得假释。
Since his sentence was commuted, Werts has been honored for the work he has done related to prison reform.
自从他的刑期被减刑以来，沃茨因其在监狱改革方面所做的工作而受到表彰。
What role would you say McFadden played in your life personally?
您认为麦克法登在您个人的生活中扮演什么角色？
It was huge, huge.
它非常非常大。
Samantha Broun In the two decades leading up to Reginald McFadden, 285 lifers had their sentences commuted.
萨曼莎·布劳恩 (Samantha Broun) 在雷金纳德·麦克法登 (Reginald McFadden) 被判刑前的二十年里，有 285 名无期徒刑犯获得了减刑。
In the two decades since, there have been eight.
此后的二十年里，已经有八次了。
From 285 to eight and Tyrone Werts is one of them.
从 285 到 8，蒂龙·沃茨就是其中之一。
When I went in, there was only about 800 lifers in the whole state serving life.
当我进去的时候，全州只有大约 800 名终身受益人在服刑。
Now we got 5,000.
现在我们有 5,000 个。
McFadden kind of slammed the door shut on the lifers in Pennsylvania.
麦克法登对宾夕法尼亚州的无期徒刑人员关上了大门。
To be exact, there are currently 5,483 lifers in Pennsylvania prisons.
确切地说，宾夕法尼亚州监狱目前有 5,483 名无期徒刑犯。
The increase is mostly because of the overall growth in incarceration rates, not because of McFadden.
这一增长主要是因为监禁率的整体增长，而不是因为麦克法登。
But thanks to McFadden, lifers have very little hope of commutation.
但多亏了麦克法登，无期徒刑者减刑的希望微乎其微。
75% of Pennsylvania lifers are people of color.
宾夕法尼亚州 75% 的终身受益人是有色人种。
In the 1980s, Werts and McFadden were in the same prison for a while.
20 世纪 80 年代，沃茨和麦克法登在同一所监狱关押了一段时间。
We inside say that there are two kinds of crime-- there are economic crimes, there are psychological crimes.
我们里面说犯罪有两种——有经济犯罪，有心理犯罪。
McFadden had a psychological crime.
麦克法登有心理犯罪。
Werts said that lifers pay close attention when someone's commutation makes it past the Board and to the Governor's desk.
沃茨说，当某人的减刑通过委员会并送到州长办公桌时，终身受益人会密切关注。
Because the one thing we know as lifers is that anybody gets out carry the weight of the lifer population on their back.
因为我们作为无期徒刑者知道的一件事是，任何人走出去都背负着无期徒刑人口的重量。
So I mean we talk about it all the time about who we would let out, who we wouldn't let out.
所以我的意思是，我们一直在谈论我们会放走谁，我们不会放走谁。
And what was the feeling when people heard that McFadden had made it to the Governor's desk?
当人们听说麦克法登登上了州长的办公桌时，有什么感觉？
There was apprehension.
有一种忧虑。
There really was.
确实有。
I mean, I've heard that from a number of people.
我的意思是，我从很多人那里听到过这样的说法。
Man, you say, now I hope this guy don't make it.
伙计，你说，现在我希望这家伙不要成功。
With McFadden's rearrest and commutations essentially shut down, Werts said a dark cloud settled over Pennsylvania prisons.
沃茨说，随着麦克法登的重新逮捕和减刑基本上停止，宾夕法尼亚州监狱上空笼罩着乌云。
As a matter of fact, I think it's still there, because the hope has just been sucked out of a possibility of lifers getting out.
事实上，我认为它仍然存在，因为无期徒刑者出狱的希望刚刚消失。
That's just been sucked away.
那只是被吸走了。
Look, the day I walked out of Graterford, there were-- they posted 200 guys in the hallway waiting to greet me as I left.
看，我走出格拉特福德的那天，他们在走廊里安排了 200 个人，等着我离开时迎接我。
And I walked down that long corridor weeping like a baby crying, because I knew as I was leaving that all these guys I was hugging was going to die in Pennsylvania prisons because they're not going to get the same opportunity that I have.
我像婴儿一样哭泣着沿着长长的走廊走去，因为当我离开时，我知道我拥抱的所有这些人都会死在宾夕法尼亚州的监狱里，因为他们不会得到和我一样的机会。
And without question, I recognized that based on the changes that were made as a result of McFadden and the horrible crimes he committed, and I really want to say that I really feel bad that this had to happen to your mother, but McFadden is not representative of the broader lifer population.
毫无疑问，我认识到，基于麦克法登和他所犯下的可怕罪行所带来的变化，我真的想说，这件事发生在你母亲身上，我真的感到很难过，但麦克法登并不代表更广泛的终身人口。
He was truly an anomaly.
他确实是一个异类。
Other than Reggie, I don't know a single lifer that we let go that got in trouble again.
除了雷吉之外，我不知道有哪个被我们放走的终身监禁者再次陷入麻烦。
You know, they just go out and disappear.
你知道，他们只是出去然后消失。
John McCullough worked in Pennsylvania prisons for over 30 years.
约翰·麦卡洛 (John McCullough) 在宾夕法尼亚州监狱工作了 30 多年。
In fact, he was the Deputy Superintendent of Rock View Prison, where McFadden was before his sentence was commuted.
事实上，他是洛克维尤监狱的副监狱长，麦克法登在减刑之前就在那里。
So the whole ripple effect from McFadden has been to make us more conservative.
因此，麦克法登的连锁反应让我们变得更加保守。
Why take the risk at all?
为什么要冒这个风险呢？
Just let the easy ones out.
就让那些容易的出来吧。
And the sad thing is, in a lot of cases, the easy ones are the junkies who are going to go right out and shoot dope and get in trouble again, whereas a lot of these old lifers will never be a problem again.
可悲的是，在很多情况下，最容易的人是那些直接出去注射毒品并再次陷入麻烦的瘾君子，而很多这些老人永远不会再成为问题。
I don't know what it will take to undo what's been done in Pennsylvania.
我不知道需要什么才能消除宾夕法尼亚州所做的一切。
In the late '90s, a lawsuit was filed on behalf of Pennsylvania lifers for their right to a fair shot at commutation.
20世纪90年代末，有人代表宾夕法尼亚州终身监禁者提起诉讼，要求他们获得公平减刑的权利。
It remained in the courts for over 10 years before it was finally dismissed.
它在法庭上待了十多年才最终被驳回。
Unfortunately, success stories of lifers like Tyrone Werts don't create the same fervor that crimes like Reginald McFadden's do.
不幸的是，像泰隆·沃茨这样的无期徒刑犯的成功故事并没有像雷金纳德·麦克法登这样的犯罪故事那样引起人们的热情。
But after spending the past 2 and 1/2 years investigating the effects of this crime, I want to tell you this.
但在花了过去 2 又 1/2 年的时间调查这一犯罪的影响之后，我想告诉你这一点。
When I testified in Harrisburg back in 1995, I spoke from a place of fear and anger.
1995 年，当我在哈里斯堡作证时，我的心情充满了恐惧和愤怒。
I didn't notice the political forces poised to capitalize on that.
我没有注意到政治力量准备利用这一点。
I didn't have the distance I have now to see what my testimony would be used for, what the consequences might be.
我现在没有足够的时间来了解我的证词将被用来做什么，可能会产生什么后果。
My testimony equates all lifers with Reginald McFadden and that's not fair.
我的证词将所有终身监禁者等同于雷金纳德·麦克法登，这是不公平的。
Look, I don't speak for all victims.
听着，我并不代表所有受害者。
I don't even speak for my whole family, but to set the record straight, I do believe in the possibility of second chances.
我什至不代表我的整个家庭发言，但澄清一下，我确实相信有第二次机会的可能性。
My mom still suffers from post-traumatic stress, but she tells me that this whole project has made her feel a bit lighter.
我妈妈仍然患有创伤后应激障碍，但她告诉我，整个项目让她感觉轻松了一些。
So I'm just wondering how it's been for you to do this?
所以我只是想知道你是如何做到这一点的？
Well, I have thought about how it shifted for me.
好吧，我想过它对我来说是如何改变的。
When you started to do this piece, talking to all these people and saying, how did it affect you?
当你开始做这件作品时，与所有这些人交谈并说，它对你有何影响？
Where are you now?
你现在在哪里？
How often do you think about it?
您多久思考一次？
It feels like the community is brought in again so it strengthens me and I'm not alone.
感觉就像社区再次被引入，所以它增强了我的力量，而且我并不孤单。
And she's actually been singing.
她实际上一直在唱歌。
When she's driving in the car or at home by herself, she'll sing, Not like she used to.
当她开车或独自在家时，她会唱歌，不像以前那样。
She still cries, but she's singing.
她还在哭，但她在唱歌。
Samantha Broun.
萨曼莎·布劳恩.
Today's story was produced by Samantha Broun and Jay Allison on Cape Cod for the Public Radio website Transom.org.
今天的故事由 Samantha Broun 和 Jay Allison 在科德角为公共广播网站 Transom.org 制作。
If you want to make radio stories or podcasts, I want to say Transom.org is this non-profit with free advice on how to do that, primers on the gear that you want to get, and software that's best, as well as essays on story structure and technique by people like me and Jad Appenrod and Errol Morris and Scott Carrier and lot of others.
如果你想制作广播故事或播客，我想说 Transom.org 是一个非营利组织，提供关于如何做到这一点的免费建议、你想要获得的装备的入门知识、最好的软件，以及由我、贾德·阿彭罗德、埃罗尔·莫里斯和斯科特·卡里尔等人撰写的关于故事结构和技术的文章。
They also give amazing workshops.
他们还举办精彩的研讨会。
They're great, again, at Transom.org.
Transom.org 的他们再次表现出色。
[MUSIC - "I WANT TO SING" BY FIONA KELLEHER"]
[音乐 - 菲奥娜·凯勒的《我想唱歌》]
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our production staff Susan Burton, Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Neil Drumming, Karen Duffin, Emmanuel Dzotsi, Stephanie Foo, Channa Joffe-Walt, David Kestenbaum, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Matt Tierney, and Nancy Updike.
[鸣谢] 我们的制作人员Susan Burton、Zoe Chace、Sean Cole、Neil Drumming、Karen Duffin、Emmanuel Dzotsi、Stephanie Foo、Channa Joffe-Walt、David Kestenbaum、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Matt Tierney 和 Nancy Updike。
Robyn Semien produced today's episode.
罗宾·塞米恩 (Robyn Semien) 制作了今天的节目。
Research help today from Christopher Swetala.
Christopher Swetala 今天提供研究帮助。
Music help from Damian Grave.
达米安·格雷夫 (Damian Grave) 的音乐帮助。
Our website, ThisAmericanLife.org.
我们的网站 ThisAmericanLife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
He is not into pets.
他不喜欢宠物。
When I told him I was getting a dog, he said--
当我告诉他我要养狗时，他说——
I'm kind of curious what the point in the whole project is, but go for it, you know.
我有点好奇整个项目的意义是什么，但你知道，去做吧。
Let's see where it goes.
让我们看看它去哪里了。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Good for you.
对你有好处。
Better you than me.
你比我更好。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。