601: Master of Her Domain… Name - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #601 | November 4, 2016 601: Master of Her Domain…
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 601 集 | 2016 年 11 月 4 日 601：她的领域大师……
Name Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
名称说明：《This American Life》是为耳朵而生，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass There's this political parable about Hillary Clinton that made the rounds during the primaries this year, a parable with many layers to it.
序言 Ira Glass 有一个关于希拉里·克林顿的政治寓言在今年的初选期间广为流传，这个寓言有很多层次。
One of our contributors, Jack Hitt, wrote about this recently for the New Republic.
我们的撰稿人之一杰克·希特（Jack Hitt）最近为《新共和》撰写了有关此事的文章。
Elizabeth Warren is the person who tells this story.
伊丽莎白·沃伦就是讲述这个故事的人。
So this goes all the way back to the late 90s when Bill Clinton was still in office.
这可以追溯到 90 年代末，当时比尔·克林顿还在任。
Hillary Clinton was First Lady.
希拉里·克林顿是第一夫人。
Elizabeth Warren wasn't a senator yet.
伊丽莎白·沃伦还不是参议员。
She was a law professor at Harvard.
她是哈佛大学的法学教授。
And she had written, I think, an op-ed piece about this one bankruptcy bill.
我认为她写了一篇关于这项破产法案的专栏文章。
And Warren tells the story of the First Lady making contact.
沃伦讲述了第一夫人接触的故事。
And they sat down.
他们坐下了。
And she said, it was just amazing talking to Hillary Clinton.
她说，与希拉里·克林顿交谈真是太棒了。
And just the two of us.
而且只有我们两个人。
They closed the door.
他们关上了门。
Mrs. Clinton sits down.
克林顿夫人坐下。
We have hamburgers and french fries.
我们有汉堡包和炸薯条。
You tutor her.
你辅导她。
Ira Glass This is Elizabeth Warren telling the story to Bill Moyers on television in 2004.
艾拉·格拉斯 这是伊丽莎白·沃伦 2004 年在电视上向比尔·莫耶斯讲述的故事。
One of the problems with this bill, she explained, is that if a man went bankrupt, he would have to pay off his credit card companies and his banks before he would pay off an ex-wife or child support and alimony.
她解释说，这项法案的问题之一是，如果一个男人破产了，他必须先偿还信用卡公司和银行的债务，然后才能偿还前妻或子女的抚养费和赡养费。
She explained this to Moyers.
她向莫耶斯解释了这一点。
And I got to tell you, I never had a smarter student.
我必须告诉你，我从来没有遇到过比我更聪明的学生。
Quick, right to the heart of it.
快点，直击核心。
I go over the law.
我回顾一下法律。
It's a complex law.
这是一个复杂的法律。
Went over the economics, showed her the graphs, showed her the charts.
回顾了经济学，给她看了图表，给她看了图表。
And she got it.
她明白了。
Within 20 minutes, she could play where the rest of it would come.
20分钟之内，她就可以在剩下的地方玩了。
Well then, that will mean this part's happened.
那么，这将意味着这部分已经发生了。
That will mean this is happening.
这将意味着这种情况正在发生。
And she got right to the heart of it, totally understood it, and went back and convinced Bill to veto this bankruptcy bill.
她抓住了问题的核心，完全理解了它，然后回去说服比尔否决了这项破产法案。
Warren said Bill Clinton had been planning on signing the bill.
沃伦表示，比尔·克林顿一直计划签署该法案。
She credits Hillary with turning him around.
她认为希拉里扭转了他的局面。
And that's the Hillary that we all recognize, if you've read any of the magazine bios of her that go all the way back to college, the valedictorian, the A-plus student, the woman who does her homework, figures it out, and has the best understanding.
这就是我们大家都认识的希拉里，如果你读过她大学时期的杂志简历的话，她是一位告别演说者，一位优秀的学生，一位做足功课、弄清楚问题、最有理解力的女人。
But then, Warren tells a second part to the story.
但随后，沃伦讲述了故事的第二部分。
This part happens just a few months after the bill is vetoed.
这部分发生在该法案被否决后几个月。
It's 2001, Clinton is no longer the First Lady.
2001年，克林顿不再是第一夫人。
So this time, she's a United States senator.
所以这一次，她是一名美国参议员。
She's been elected.
她当选了。
A lot of her campaign money came from Wall Street, as Warren points out when she tells this story.
正如沃伦在讲述这个故事时指出的那样，她的很多竞选资金都来自华尔街。
And one of the first bills that came up after she was Senator Clinton was the bankruptcy bill.
克林顿担任参议员后提出的第一批法案之一就是破产法案。
This is a bill that's like a vampire.
这是一张像吸血鬼一样的法案。
It will not die.
它不会死。
There's a lot of money behind it.
背后有很多钱。
And it--
还有它——
Her husband had vetoed it very much at her urging.
在她的强烈要求下，她丈夫极力否决了。
And?
和？
Elizabeth Warren She voted in favor of it.
伊丽莎白·沃伦 她投了赞成票。
And of course, that's the Hillary that is often described as the opportunist, the woman who will do anything to keep power.
当然，这就是经常被描述为机会主义者的希拉里，一个为了保住权力会不惜一切代价的女人。
The schemer.
阴谋家。
Jack Hitt Yeah, the captive of Wall Street.
杰克·希特 是的，华尔街的俘虏。
But then, there's yet another turn to the story.
但随后，故事又出现了转机。
And that's in Hillary Clinton's version of the story.
这是希拉里·克林顿版本的故事。
Hillary Clinton says, yes.
希拉里·克林顿说，是的。
She voted for the bill.
她对该法案投了赞成票。
But she did not do that to suck up to Wall Street.
但她这样做并不是为了讨好华尔街。
She says--
她说——
She had quietly lobbied to insert language that would protect the vulnerable populations that Elizabeth Warren had warned her about, like single moms.
她悄悄游说加入了保护伊丽莎白·沃伦警告过的弱势群体的语言，比如单亲妈妈。
I took that on.
我接受了。
And I went to the floor.
我走到地板上。
And I buttonholed the Democrats and the Republicans who were leading that bill.
我扣住了领导该法案的民主党和共和党。
I said, you can't do this.
我说，你不能这样做。
You--
你——
And so, when you hear this version of the story, then you see, oh yes.
所以，当你听到这个版本的故事时，你就会明白，哦，是的。
Right.
正确的。
Well, this is the Hillary Clinton that many liberal commentators love to talk about, the really smart, sharp, the legislator, the one who understands that so many of these legal battles, these legislative battles, happen inside the parentheses of some footnote somewhere, a detail-oriented, shrewd--
好吧，这就是许多自由派评论员喜欢谈论的希拉里·克林顿，真正聪明、敏锐的立法者，她明白这么多的法律斗争、这些立法斗争都发生在某个脚注的括号内，一个注重细节的精明的人——
In this version of the story, Hillary gets to have her cake and eat it too.
在这个版本的故事中，希拉里鱼与熊掌兼得。
When she votes for the bill, it pleases Wall Street.
当她投票支持该法案时，华尔街很高兴。
When she adds the provision for divorced moms, it pleases her liberal base.
当她增加针对离婚妈妈的条款时，她的自由派基础感到高兴。
Everybody's happy.
大家都很高兴。
But there is yet one last turn to the screw.
但螺丝还剩最后一转。
In 2005, the bill comes up yet again in the Senate.
2005年，该法案再次在参议院提出。
It still has not become law.
它仍然没有成为法律。
And this time, the protections that Clinton had fought for, for mothers and other vulnerable populations, those were not in the bill.
而这一次，克林顿为母亲和其他弱势群体争取的保护却没有出现在该法案中。
So there's no way out for her on this one.
所以，这件事上，她已经没有退路了。
She has to declare her side, who she's really defending in Congress, Wall Street or these vulnerable populations that elect her to office.
她必须表明自己的立场，她在国会、华尔街或选举她上台的弱势群体中真正捍卫的是谁。
Mm-hm.
嗯嗯。
Jack Hitt And what happens?
杰克·希特 那么会发生什么呢？
Bill is in the hospital for something.
比尔因某事住院。
And she goes to his bedside and claims that she can't be present for the vote in Congress.
她走到他的床边，声称她不能出席国会投票。
Essentially she goes AWOL from the decision and is not there to vote either way.
本质上，她因做出决定而擅离职守，并且不会投票。
She does issue a statement saying that she's against the bill.
她确实发表了一份声明，表示她反对该法案。
But she doesn't actually vote against the bill.
但她实际上并没有投票反对该法案。
It passes.
它过去了。
And this is the Hillary that drives a lot of people insane.
这就是让很多人疯狂的希拉里。
Because this one seems even more Machiavellian, whatever it takes to save my skin.
因为这看起来更加马基雅维利式的，不惜一切代价来拯救我的皮肤。
In his article, Jack had list the different Hillarys that we see in different stories about her.
杰克在他的文章中列出了我们在不同的故事中看到的不同的希拉里。
There's the A-student, the opportunist.
有一个优等生，机会主义者。
There's the mastermind, the rat-fink, the pragmatist, the truth-twister.
有策划者、鼠害者、实用主义者、事实扭曲者。
Almost any story you hear about Hillary, you can kind of break down these various Hillarys in that story.
几乎任何你听到的关于希拉里的故事，你都可以分解这个故事中不同的希拉里。
We run across her in all of these variations all the time.
我们一直在所有这些变体中遇到她。
I have to say, one of the things with Hillary is that she can seem like all of these Hillarys at once sometimes.
我不得不说，希拉里的一大特点是，她有时看起来就像所有这些希拉里一样。
And then, occasionally, you get a glimpse of a side of Hillary Clinton that is none of those, that doesn't fit any of the regular pictures we have of her.
然后，偶尔，你会看到希拉里·克林顿的另一面，这与我们所拥有的她的任何常规照片都不相符。
We have a story like that for you today.
今天我们有一个这样的故事给你听。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Here's what we're going to do on today's program.
这就是我们今天的节目要做的事情。
We have this story about Hillary Clinton that, when I saw it, I feel like it gave me a picture of her that-- first of all, it comes from completely credible sources, FBI interviews, in fact.
我们有一个关于希拉里·克林顿的故事，当我看到它时，我觉得它给了我一张她的照片——首先，它来自完全可靠的来源，事实上是联邦调查局的采访。
And it painted a very different picture from what we have all been hearing from both sides in this election.
它描绘了一幅与我们在这次选举中从双方听到的截然不同的画面。
And then, after that story, all of us here at our show all thought, OK, everybody is so tired of this election and so stressed out on the left and the right-- like, everyone is so freaked out.
然后，在那个故事之后，我们节目中的所有人都想，好吧，每个人都对这次选举感到厌倦，左翼和右翼都感到压力很大——就像，每个人都吓坏了。
What's going to happen if their candidate loses?
如果他们的候选人失败了会发生什么？
We thought, here at our show, let's just have something funny on the radio and on the internet.
我们想，在我们的节目中，让我们在广播和互联网上播放一些有趣的内容。
So we're going to have that too.
所以我们也会有这个。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Serve or Be Served-- so Hillary Clinton's polling numbers took a dive this week, of course, after FBI Director James Comey said agents would be reviewing more of her e-mails.
服务还是被服务——当然，在联邦调查局局长詹姆斯·科米表示特工将审查她的更多电子邮件之后，希拉里·克林顿的民意调查数字本周大幅下降。
There are two basic stories out there about Hillary Clinton's e-mails and her decision to use a private server for her e-mails when she was Secretary of State.
关于希拉里·克林顿的电子邮件以及她在担任国务卿期间决定使用私人服务器来发送电子邮件，有两个基本故事。
The Clinton version of what happened is that she made a mistake.
克林顿对所发生事件的说法是她犯了一个错误。
There's nothing in those e-mails.
这些电子邮件中什么也没有。
This is her enemies making a lot of noise about nothing.
这是她的敌人无事生非。
The Trump version of what happened is that she's a criminal and that she will be prosecuted, she will serve time over those e-mails and the way she's handled them.
特朗普对所发生事件的版本是，她是一名罪犯，她将被起诉，她将因这些电子邮件和她处理这些电子邮件的方式而服刑。
This was her using a private server to keep secrets from the American people.
这是她利用私人服务器向美国人民保守秘密。
But I was really struck a few weeks ago reading this article on Politico.
但几周前我在 Politico 上读到这篇文章时，我真的很震惊。
If you don't know Politico, it's a nonpartisan political news site and magazine.
如果您不知道 Politico，这是一个无党派政治新闻网站和杂志。
And this article told a history of the e-mails that, for all the commotion about these e-mails over this past year, I had never heard this.
这篇文章讲述了电子邮件的历史，尽管在过去的一年里有关这些电子邮件的所有骚动，我从未听说过。
What they did was simple.
他们所做的很简单。
After the FBI released its summaries of the interviews that its investigators did with Hillary Clinton and State Department officials and intel experts and CIA experts and some of Clinton's closest aides, a political writer named Garrett Graff read through the 247 pages of summaries.
在联邦调查局公布其调查人员对希拉里·克林顿、国务院官员、情报专家、中央情报局专家以及克林顿的一些最亲密助手的采访摘要后，一位名叫加勒特·格拉夫的政治作家通读了 247 页的摘要。
It's a public document.
这是一份公开文件。
You can get a copy online yourself.
您可以自己在线获取一份副本。
But I think maybe only a handful of reporters have actually read through the entirety of it.
但我想也许只有少数记者真正读过全文。
And then, Garrett Graff put together an exhaustive and, frankly, very page-turney account of exactly what happened, according to what the FBI found.
然后，根据联邦调查局的调查结果，加勒特·格拉夫（Garrett Graff）对到底发生了什么进行了详尽的、坦率地说非常翻页的描述。
That is, how Hillary Clinton and her aides ended up doing her e-mails this way.
这就是希拉里·克林顿和她的助手最终以这种方式处理电子邮件的原因。
What were they thinking?
他们在想什么？
How did this happen?
这是怎么发生的？
How did she end up running her e-mail from a private server in the basement of her house, including e-mails with classified information on them?
她最终如何从她家地下室的私人服务器上运行她的电子邮件，包括带有机密信息的电子邮件？
Garrett Graff talk to one of our producers, Sean Cole, about this.
加勒特·格拉夫 (Garrett Graff) 与我们的制作人之一肖恩·科尔 (Sean Cole) 谈论了此事。
Here's Sean.
这是肖恩。
Garrett Graff spent three days reading the interview summaries.
加勒特·格拉夫花了三天时间阅读采访摘要。
He's been covering the FBI for almost a decade.
他报道联邦调查局近十年了。
And he's pored over a lot of documents like these.
他仔细研究了很多这样的文件。
And his conclusion, after reading the 247 pages, is this.
读完 247 页后，他的结论是这样的。
The way Hillary and her top aides dealt with her e-mails is indeed scandalous.
希拉里和她的高级助手处理她电子邮件的方式确实是可耻的。
It's just a totally different scandal than people thought.
这只是一个与人们想象的完全不同的丑闻。
I think a lot of us thought that this was done out of sophistication.
我想我们很多人都认为这样做是出于复杂性。
That it was done out of this very advanced Machiavellian understanding of federal records laws and advanced knowledge of computer technology.
这是基于对联邦记录法的非常先进的马基雅维利式理解和先进的计算机技术知识而完成的。
But by the time the FBI got done with all of these interviews, it becomes really clear it was actually done out of technological ignorance.
但当联邦调查局完成所有这些采访时，很明显，这实际上是出于对技术的无知。
Garrett writes that the documents, quote, "depict less a sinister and carefully calculated effort to avoid transparency than a busy and uninterested executive who shows little comfort with even the basics of technology, working with a small, harried, inner circle of aides.
加勒特写道，这些文件“与其说是为了避免透明度而进行的险恶且精心策划的努力，不如说是一位忙碌而无趣的高管，他甚至对技术的基础知识也表现得不太满意，与一小群忙碌的核心助手一起工作。
Reading the FBI interviews," he writes," Clinton's team hardly seems organized enough to mount any sort of sinister cover up."
阅读联邦调查局的采访，”他写道，“克林顿的团队似乎没有足够的组织性来进行任何形式的险恶掩盖。”
So beginning at the beginning.
所以从头开始。
When Hillary took over Secretary of State, she and her staff had to figure out how she would handle e-mail.
当希拉里接任国务卿时，她和她的工作人员必须弄清楚如何处理电子邮件。
Hillary had always checked her e-mail on a BlackBerry.
希拉里总是用黑莓手机查看电子邮件。
And she requested a secure government-issued BlackBerry.
她还要求拥有一部政府发行的安全黑莓手机。
But she was told she wouldn't be able to use her personal e-mail account on it.
但她被告知她将无法使用她的个人电子邮件帐户。
That wasn't allowed.
那是不允许的。
And using government e-mail for personal stuff was discouraged.
并且不鼓励使用政府电子邮件处理个人事务。
And if you remember, one of the first things Hillary Clinton said when this scandal broke in 2015 was, well, I didn't want to carry two devices.
如果你还记得的话，2015 年丑闻爆发时，希拉里·克林顿 (Hillary Clinton) 说的第一句话就是，我不想携带两台设备。
And everyone in Washington started laughing at that.
华盛顿的每个人都开始嘲笑这一点。
Because most officials, most people in Washington, carry two or three devices.
因为华盛顿的大多数官员、大多数人都携带两到三个设备。
Because there are strict prohibitions against using government phones or computers to do political campaigning.
因为严格禁止使用政府电话或电脑进行政治竞选。
So multiple devices is normal.
所以多台设备是正常的。
But when we actually read through these documents, you can almost come away with a sense that that is actually why they did it, that Hillary seems to actually be a very persnickety technology user.
但当我们真正阅读这些文件时，你几乎可以感觉到这实际上就是他们这样做的原因，希拉里似乎实际上是一个非常挑剔的技术用户。
She is not very comfortable with most technology, only liked to use a BlackBerry and, more specifically, only liked to use a specific type of increasingly older and more out-of-date BlackBerry.
她对大多数技术都不是很适应，只喜欢使用黑莓手机，更具体地说，只喜欢使用特定类型的越来越旧、越来越过时的黑莓手机。
She doesn't know how to use a desktop computer.
她不知道如何使用台式电脑。
She--
她——
Wait, wait, wait.
等等，等等，等等。
Back up.
备份。
Back up.
备份。
She doesn't know how to use a desktop computer.
她不知道如何使用台式电脑。
Hillary Clinton, the Democratic presidential nominee in 2016, does not know how to use a desktop computer, according to multiple sources interviewed by the FBI.
据 FBI 采访的多位消息人士称，2016 年民主党总统候选人希拉里·克林顿 (Hillary Clinton) 不知道如何使用台式电脑。
How is that possible?
这怎么可能？
Garrett Graff The short answer is, I don't know.
Garrett Graff 简短的回答是，我不知道。
I mean, I can get not knowing how to play an X-Box or a virtual reality machine or something like that.
我的意思是，我可能不知道如何玩 X-Box 或虚拟现实机或类似的东西。
Right.
正确的。
Garrett Graff But a desktop computer, this is literally the oldest piece of personal technology available to us today.
加勒特·格拉夫（Garrett Graff） 但是对于台式电脑来说，这实际上是我们当今可用的最古老的个人技术。
I looked into this.
我对此进行了调查。
It's actually the abacus.
其实就是算盘。
At the same time, says Garrett, you have to think about where the Clintons were at the advent of the everyday internet.
加勒特说，与此同时，你必须想想克林顿夫妇在日常互联网出现时处于什么位置。
When Bill Clinton was elected in 1992, you could count the number of websites in the dozens.
1992 年比尔·克林顿当选时，网站的数量可以数到几十个。
Bill himself didn't really properly use the internet until 1998.
直到 1998 年，比尔本人才真正正确地使用互联网。
They just didn't live regular lives and never would again.
他们只是没有过正常的生活，而且以后也不会再过正常的生活了。
When Hillary became Secretary of State, she asked one of her predecessors, Colin Powell, how he dealt with e-mail.
当希拉里成为国务卿时，她问她的前任之一科林·鲍威尔，他如何处理电子邮件。
He wrote to her, quote, "I didn't have a BlackBerry.
他在给她的信中写道：“我没有黑莓手机。
What I did do was have a personal computer that was hooked up to a private phone line--" sounds ancient-- --"so I could communicate with a wide range of friends directly without it going through the State Department's servers.
我所做的就是拥有一台连接到私人电话线的个人电脑——“听起来很古老——”这样我就可以直接与广大朋友进行交流，而无需通过国务院的服务器。
I even used it to do business with some foreign leaders."
我什至用它与一些外国领导人做生意。”
Powell advised her not to let the rules get too much in the way of communicating.
鲍威尔建议她不要让规则过多地妨碍沟通。
But he also told her to be careful about using e-mail in general, as anything you write can become a matter of public record.
但他也告诉她在使用电子邮件时要小心，因为你写的任何内容都可能成为公共记录。
He said all of this in an e-mail.
他在一封电子邮件中说了所有这些。
He signed it, Love, Colin.
他签了字：爱，科林。
Powell has also said he used a secure government computer for classified information.
鲍威尔还表示，他使用安全的政府计算机来获取机密信息。
Anyway, his solution-- checking e-mail on a desktop computer-- wouldn't work for Hillary Clinton because, again, she didn't know how to operate one.
不管怎样，他的解决方案——在台式电脑上检查电子邮件——对希拉里·克林顿来说不起作用，因为她不知道如何操作。
So her staff embarked on a series of thrown-together work arounds.
因此，她的员工开始了一系列杂乱无章的工作。
They kept buying her the antiquated type of BlackBerry she preferred, the Curve 8310 with the trackball.
他们不断给她买她喜欢的老式黑莓手机，即带轨迹球的 Curve 8310。
One staffer remembers having to buy one either on Amazon or eBay around 2013, after BlackBerry stopped making them.
一名员工记得 2013 年左右，黑莓停止生产这款产品后，他不得不在亚马逊或 eBay 上购买一款。
To complicate matters further, her office at the State Department was in a secure area where no BlackBerrys or cell phones were allowed.
让事情变得更加复杂的是，她在国务院的办公室位于一个安全区域，不允许使用黑莓或手机。
The worry was that spies could remotely turn them into listening devices.
人们担心间谍可以远程将它们变成窃听设备。
So the Secretary of State would leave her BlackBerry with a guard on the way in.
因此，国务卿在进门时会将她的黑莓手机留给一名警卫。
And then, when she needed to check an e-mail, she'd get up from her desk, go get her phone, and wander around the eighth floor balcony.
然后，当她需要检查电子邮件时，她会从办公桌上站起来，去拿手机，然后在八楼的阳台上闲逛。
One more quick word about Colin Powell.
关于科林·鲍威尔，再简单说一下。
He sometimes used a personal e-mail address to do State business.
他有时使用个人电子邮件地址处理国家事务。
He used his AOL account.
他使用了他的 AOL 帐户。
And his argument, at the time, was a personal e-mail address is basically like a home telephone line.
当时他的论点是个人电子邮件地址基本上就像家庭电话线。
You can make personal calls on it.
您可以用它拨打私人电话。
And you can make business calls on it.
您还可以用它拨打商务电话。
So the Secretary of State using a private e-mail account wasn't anything new.
因此，国务卿使用私人电子邮件帐户并不是什么新鲜事。
It was frowned upon by the State Department, but it wasn't forbidden.
美国国务院对此不以为然，但并没有禁止。
And Garrett says, reading through the FBI files, using personal e-mail for government business was also rampant.
加勒特说，通过阅读联邦调查局的文件，使用个人电子邮件处理政府事务也很猖獗。
State Department workers regularly, across the board, across all levels of the organization, regularly relied on personal e-mail in order to be able to conduct the business that the State Department needed to do, because they were traveling or because it was night time or it was a weekend or they were overseas away from an embassy.
国务院各层级的工作人员经常依赖个人电子邮件来处理国务院需要做的业务，因为他们正在旅行，或者因为是晚上，或者周末，或者他们在远离大使馆的海外。
Or for a much simpler and much more important reason-- the State Department computer network didn't work very well.
或者有一个更简单、更重要的原因——国务院的计算机网络运行得不太好。
Part of what we learn in these FBI files is that that system actually wasn't compatible with the Wi-Fi that the Air Force uses--
我们从这些 FBI 文件中得知，该系统实际上与空军使用的 Wi-Fi 不兼容——
Oh my god.
天哪。
Garrett Graff --on the planes that the Secretary of State travels on.
加勒特·格拉夫——在国务卿乘坐的飞机上。
So her staff would sometimes use private e-mails just when they were sitting on the plane with Hillary Clinton.
因此，她的员工有时会在与希拉里·克林顿 (Hillary Clinton) 坐在飞机上时使用私人电子邮件。
People didn't think that the printer function worked very well within the State Department's regular e-mail system.
人们认为打印机功能在国务院的常规电子邮件系统中运行得不太好。
So in order to print documents, they would often just forward documents to their personal Gmail or Hotmail, because it was easier to print out of that than it was to print out of the State Department e-mail system.
因此，为了打印文件，他们通常会将文件转发到他们的个人 Gmail 或 Hotmail，因为从中打印出来比从国务院电子邮件系统中打印出来更容易。
This is one of the big, if accidental, revelations in this investigation-- just how crappy and backwards the State Department's computer system was.
这是这次调查中最大的（即使是偶然的）启示之一——国务院的计算机系统是多么蹩脚和落后。
It's shocking for anyone who's ever worked in a normal business.
对于任何曾经在正常企业工作过的人来说，这都是令人震惊的。
Moxt Americans would be absolutely horrified at the state of government technology writ large.
最重要的是，美国人会对政府技术的现状感到绝对震惊。
But the State Department seems to be a particularly antiquated user of technology.
但国务院似乎是一个特别过时的技术使用者。
When Colin Powell showed up at the State Department in 2001, he was given, in his office, a laptop that still relied on a 56K modem.
2001 年，当科林·鲍威尔 (Colin Powell) 出现在国务院时，他的办公室里收到了一台仍然依赖 56K 调制解调器的笔记本电脑。
If you're under 25, that was a way to dial into the internet over a phone line.
如果您未满 25 岁，这是通过电话线拨入互联网的一种方式。
And a phone line that used to-- it doesn't matter.
还有一条过去的电话线——这并不重要。
And Colin Powell made a really big effort to try to invest in actually putting computers on people's desks across the State Department, which did not exist in 2001.
科林·鲍威尔 (Colin Powell) 做出了巨大的努力，试图投资将计算机真正放到国务院各个部门的办公桌上，而这在 2001 年还不存在。
People didn't have computers on their desks in the State Department in 2001?
2001年国务院人们的办公桌上还没有电脑吗？
The average State Department employee at headquarters in Washington, DC in 2001 did not have a desktop computer.
2001 年，华盛顿特区总部的国务院雇员平均没有台式电脑。
Or any kind of computer.
或者任何类型的计算机。
No laptop.
没有笔记本电脑。
Nothing.
没有什么。
And Colin Powell was indeed shocked by that.
科林·鲍威尔确实对此感到震惊。
So he bought 44,000 new computers.
于是他购买了 44,000 台新电脑。
And when he would travel the world as Secretary of State, he would always sit down in embassies when he was visiting.
当他以国务卿的身份环游世界时，他总是会在大使馆里坐下来。
He would find a computer, sit down, and check his own e-mail, in part as a test to see how well the organization and the embassies overseas were actually using the computers that he was giving them.
他会找到一台电脑，坐下来，检查自己的电子邮件，部分目的是为了测试该组织和海外大使馆实际上如何使用他提供的计算机。
The shame of almost all of government is that government is, in many cases, the least sophisticated technology user in American society.
几乎所有政府的耻辱在于，在很多情况下，政府是美国社会中最不成熟的技术使用者。
You see this in our nuclear missile systems, where our nuclear ICBMs in their missile silos still rely on, like, floppy disks, which the average person in America hasn't used since they played Oregon Trail in elementary school.
你可以在我们的核导弹系统中看到这一点，我们的导弹发射井中的核洲际弹道导弹仍然依赖于软盘，而普通美国人自从在小学玩《俄勒冈小道》以来就没有使用过软盘。
[LAUGHTER] Sean Cole So Hillary's staff decided that it would be easiest for her to use her personal e-mail account for everything, the e-mail that was governed by her own private server.
[笑声] Sean Cole So Hillary 的工作人员认为，对她来说，使用她的个人电子邮件帐户处理所有事情是最简单的，该电子邮件由她自己的私人服务器管理。
It really just doesn't seem like anyone thought that deeply about this.
确实似乎没有人对此进行过深入思考。
Just, no one was really paying attention to the big picture.
只是，没有人真正关注大局。
Collectively, Hillary Clinton's inner circle and the State Department leadership stumbled into this set up that very few people seem to have actually given any thought to the political implications of it.
总的来说，希拉里·克林顿的核心圈子和国务院领导层都是无意中陷入这种局面的，似乎很少有人真正考虑过它的政治影响。
Her aide, Huma Abedin, said she didn't recall any conversations about whether this was permissible.
她的助手胡玛·阿贝丁 (Huma Abedin) 表示，她不记得有过任何关于这样做是否允许的对话。
And as far as the rules for preserving e-mails under the federal laws, both Hillary and Huma told the FBI they figured any e-mails sent to an official State Department address by Hillary Clinton would be captured and preserved.
至于根据联邦法律保存电子邮件的规则，希拉里和胡玛都告诉联邦调查局，他们认为希拉里·克林顿发送到国务院官方地址的任何电子邮件都将被捕获和保存。
They were later told, that's not how are you supposed to do it.
后来他们被告知，你不应该这样做。
The main accusation against Hillary, of course, is that she set up a private server to avoid scrutiny and cover her tracks.
当然，对希拉里的主要指控是她建立了一个私人服务器来逃避审查并掩盖自己的踪迹。
But what the FBI investigation found was that her aides were mostly uninterested in how or where her e-mails would be preserved.
但联邦调查局的调查发现，她的助手大多对如何或在哪里保存她的电子邮件不感兴趣。
Huma Abedin, who herself had an account powered by the server, told the FBI she didn't know the server existed until after Hillary left the State Department.
胡玛·阿贝丁（Huma Abedin）自己就有一个由该服务器支持的帐户，她告诉联邦调查局，直到希拉里离开国务院后，她才知道该服务器的存在。
Cheryl Mills, who was Hillary's chief of staff at the State Department, says she wasn't even sure she knew what a server was at that point.
希拉里在国务院的幕僚长谢丽尔·米尔斯 (Cheryl Mills) 表示，她当时甚至不确定自己是否知道服务器是什么。
Which brings us to those two words you hear all the time in the coverage of E-mail-Gate-- private server.
这就引出了您在电子邮件门的报道中经常听到的两个词——私人服务器。
That sounds shady, right?
这听起来很阴暗，对吧？
The Clintons have a private e-mail server in their basement?
克林顿夫妇的地下室有私人电子邮件服务器吗？
Except what that means is that they had a computer that runs their e-mails, sends and receives and stores them.
但这意味着他们拥有一台可以运行电子邮件、发送、接收和存储电子邮件的计算机。
Lots of small businesses have an e-mail server.
许多小型企业都有电子邮件服务器。
This American Life has one in a closet about 15 feet from where I'm sitting.
《This American Life》在距离我坐的地方约 15 英尺的壁橱里有一个。
And after Bill Clinton left the White House, he basically had a small office with a staff who needed e-mail accounts.
比尔·克林顿离开白宫后，他基本上只有一个小办公室，里面的工作人员需要电子邮件帐户。
So he had an e-mail server, an old Apple machine.
所以他有一个电子邮件服务器，一台旧的苹果机器。
When you hear in the news that a server was installed in their basement just for Hillary, that's not true.
当您在新闻中听说他们的地下室专门为希拉里安装了服务器时，那不是真的。
A server was installed, but it was just an upgrade to the gear Bill Clinton already had for his staff.
安装了一台服务器，但这只是对比尔·克林顿已经为他的员工配备的设备的升级。
Less than a year into Hillary's tenure at the State Department, a couple of IT folks started to catch on that she was using a personal e-mail account.
希拉里在国务院任职不到一年，一些 IT 人员开始发现她正在使用个人电子邮件帐户。
And there was some generalized brow-furrowing about making sure her staff was complying with the Federal Records Act, which requires all official communications be preserved.
对于确保她的员工遵守联邦记录法（该法要求保存所有官方通讯），人们普遍感到皱眉。
And it was after Hillary left office in 2013 that the trouble really started.
2013年希拉里卸任后，麻烦才真正开始。
Some Russian and Ukrainian hackers found the server and tried to break into it.
一些俄罗斯和乌克兰黑客发现了该服务器并试图闯入。
They didn't succeed.
他们没有成功。
But Hillary's aides were spooked.
但希拉里的助手们却被吓坏了。
And they scrambled to secure her e-mail.
他们争先恐后地保护她的电子邮件。
They decided to change her e-mail address.
他们决定更改她的电子邮件地址。
But then, they worried that they'd lose all the existing messages.
但随后，他们担心会丢失所有现有消息。
It had happened in the past.
这件事过去曾发生过。
When Hillary was a senator, she used an AT&T e-mail account.
当希拉里担任参议员时，她使用 AT&T 电子邮件帐户。
And AT&T didn't archive old e-mails.
AT&T 也没有存档旧电子邮件。
So whenever she got a new BlackBerry, she'd lose everything.
因此，每当她得到一部新的黑莓手机时，她就会失去一切。
So this time, again, it's 2013.
所以这一次，又是2013年了。
It's up to her staff to save the e-mails, not a very complicated process.
由她的员工来保存电子邮件，这不是一个非常复杂的过程。
But rather than give it to an IT guy, an aide named Monica Hanley grabbed a laptop from Bill Clinton's Harlem office, brought it back to her apartment.
但一位名叫莫妮卡·汉利 (Monica Hanley) 的助手并没有把它交给 IT 人员，而是从比尔·克林顿 (Bill Clinton) 的哈林区办公室抓起一台笔记本电脑，带回了她的公寓。
And another staffer walked her through the steps of backing up the e-mails over the phone.
另一名工作人员引导她完成通过电话备份电子邮件的步骤。
She backed them up to a thumb drive too.
她也将它们备份到拇指驱动器上。
After which, she lost the thumb drive.
之后，她丢失了拇指驱动器。
Then the server was moved out of Hillary Clinton's basement to a tech management company in New Jersey, called Platte River Networks, or PRN, as the guy who originally installed it and ran it wasn't working for Clinton anymore.
然后，服务器从希拉里·克林顿 (Hillary Clinton) 的地下室搬到新泽西州的一家技术管理公司，名为 Platte River Networks (PRN)，因为最初安装和运行该服务器的人不再为克林顿工作。
Monica Hanley then tried to upload all of the e-mails she had transferred onto the laptop-- five years worth-- to the new PRN server, remotely from afar.
随后，莫妮卡·汉利 (Monica Hanley) 尝试将她转移到笔记本电脑上的所有电子邮件（五年内的邮件）远程上传到新的 PRN 服务器。
She tried this a couple of times.
她尝试过几次。
But it kept not working.
但它一直不起作用。
So she ends up just FedEx-ing the whole MacBook to one of the IT staff.
因此，她最终只是将整个 MacBook 通过联邦快递寄给了一名 IT 员工。
And then--
然后——
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
等等，等等，等等，等等，等等。
There are e-mails on a laptop that potentially have State secrets within them that are being FedExed across the country?
笔记本电脑上的电子邮件可能包含国家机密，并正在全国各地进行联邦快递？
Yes.
是的。
Although I don't think it seems clear that anyone involved actually thought that there were classified information inside of these e-mails.
尽管我认为似乎不清楚是否有人真的认为这些电子邮件中包含机密信息。
But there was.
但确实有。
At the end of 2014, the State Department made a formal request to former Secretary Clinton to hand over all of her work-related e-mails.
2014年底，国务院正式要求前国务卿克林顿交出她所有与工作相关的电子邮件。
The House Committee investigating the attack in Benghazi wanted to see them.
调查班加西袭击事件的众议院委员会希望见到他们。
Also, the State Department just didn't have any record of her communications while in office.
此外，国务院没有任何她在任期间的通讯记录。
Hillary and her staff handed over 30,000 e-mails, printed out, which amounted to 55,000 pages, 12 bankers boxes full of messages.
希拉里和她的工作人员交出了 30,000 封打印出来的电子邮件，总计 55,000 页，装满了 12 个银行家的信箱。
Her legal team determined which ones were work-related by using search terms, like .gov and names of Hillary's staffers.
她的法律团队通过使用搜索词（例如 .gov 和希拉里员工的姓名）来确定哪些内容与工作相关。
When they were done, they asked Hillary, do you want us to keep the personal e-mails?
完成后，他们问希拉里，你希望我们保留个人电子邮件吗？
She replied, I have no use for them anymore.
她回答说，我不再需要它们了。
So they got rid of them.
所以他们摆脱了他们。
And this is where the narrative in the FBI interviews becomes like many other stories about Hillary Clinton, in that how you understand it depends on what you think of her.
这就是联邦调查局采访中的叙述变得像许多其他有关希拉里·克林顿的故事一样的地方，因为你如何理解它取决于你对她的看法。
If you believe she's a sneaking, corner-cutting, conniver who does whatever she wants, this part of the story will totally convince you of that.
如果你相信她是一个偷偷摸摸、偷工减料、为所欲为的阴谋家，那么故事的这一部分会让你完全相信这一点。
After all, she destroys emails.
毕竟，她销毁了电子邮件。
But if you think she basically means well and is the focus of a seemingly endless witch hunt to pick apart every single thing she does, what she said about this in a press conference might seem entirely reasonable to you.
但如果你认为她基本上是出于好意，并且是一场看似无休止的政治迫害的焦点，目的是对她所做的每一件事进行拆解，那么她在新闻发布会上所说的对你来说可能是完全合理的。
Quote, No one wants their personal emails made public, and I think most people understand that and respect that privacy.
引用，没有人希望他们的个人电子邮件被公开，我认为大多数人都理解这一点并尊重这种隐私。
Hillary Clinton's team ended up deleting 33,000 messages.
希拉里·克林顿的团队最终删除了 33,000 条消息。
You've probably heard this part.
您可能听说过这一部分。
Then, the FBI resurrected about half of the deleted e-mails and discovered some of them were related to her time at the State Department.
然后，联邦调查局恢复了大约一半已删除的电子邮件，发现其中一些与她在国务院的经历有关。
But FBI Director James Comey testified to Congress that the FBI, quote, "didn't find any evidence of evil intent and intent to obstruct justice."
但联邦调查局局长詹姆斯·科米向国会作证称，联邦调查局“没有发现任何邪恶意图和妨碍司法公正的证据”。
In the e-mails that weren't deleted, there were 52 e-mail chains that contain information that was classified to some degree at the time there were sent.
在未被删除的电子邮件中，有 52 个电子邮件链包含在发送时处于某种程度的机密信息。
Eight of those e-mail chains contain information that was classified as Top Secret.
其中八封电子邮件链包含被列为绝密的信息。
By definition, we don't know what that information is or how damaging it might be to national security.
根据定义，我们不知道这些信息是什么，也不知道它对国家安全可能造成多大的损害。
But Garrett Graff says, a lot of times with our government, it's hard to pin down what the term "classified" even means.
但加勒特·格拉夫说，很多时候我们的政府很难确定“机密”一词的含义。
The average American, when they hear "classified information," thinks that that's a black-and-white term.
普通美国人在听到“机密信息”时，会认为这是一个非黑即白的术语。
Right.
正确的。
Garrett Graff That's binary.
加勒特·格拉夫 这是二元的。
It is either classified, or it is not.
它要么是机密，要么不是。
Right.
正确的。
Garrett Graff And the government classification system is actually much messier than that.
加勒特·格拉夫（Garrett Graff） 政府分类系统实际上比这要混乱得多。
Different corners of the government may consider different things classified.
政府的不同部门可能会考虑对不同的事物进行分类。
Information on one day might be unclassified but might be classified on a later day, or vice versa.
某一天的信息可能是未分类的，但可能会在稍后的一天被分类，反之亦然。
Like, retroactively classified, basically.
基本上，就像追溯分类一样。
Yeah, what in the business is called "up-classified."
是的，这在业内被称为“高级分类”。
For instance, if something unclassified went to the National Security Council, someone there could decide to classify it.
例如，如果某些非机密信息被提交给国家安全委员会，那里的某人可以决定将其分类。
And that designation couldn't be changed back by someone downstream.
并且下游人员无法更改该名称。
And then, some information was classified, even though it's common knowledge.
然后，一些信息被分类，尽管它是常识。
Under government secrecy law, Hillary and her top aides, discussing a New York Times article about the drone program-- that's considered a classified correspondence, because it's tacit admission that the drone program exists.
根据政府保密法，希拉里和她的高级助手正在讨论《纽约时报》关于无人机计划的一篇文章，这被视为机密通信，因为它默认了无人机计划的存在。
Which everybody knows.
每个人都知道。
Because it was in the New York Times.
因为那是在《纽约时报》上。
There's this one e-mail-- probably the most famous e-mail of all of them-- involving this condolence call to the East African nation of Malawi, where the president had just died.
有一封电子邮件——可能是所有电子邮件中最著名的一封——涉及到东非国家马拉维的哀悼电话，总统刚刚去世。
And the Vice President had taken over.
副总统接任了。
And Hillary Clinton was supposed to call.
希拉里·克林顿应该会打电话来。
And it's this very innocuous e-mail.
这是一封非常无害的电子邮件。
The line says, the purpose of call-- express condolences.
线路上写着，打电话的目的——表达哀悼。
And Hillary Clinton looks at that and says, I can't believe that that was actually classified.
希拉里·克林顿看到这一点后说，我不敢相信这实际上是机密。
Like, that doesn't really make any sense to me.
就像，这对我来说真的没有任何意义。
I've seen this e-mail.
我看过这封电子邮件。
And it is confusing.
这很令人困惑。
It says "unclassified" at the top and a case number.
顶部写着“未分类”和案件编号。
And then, it says "classified" lower down.
然后，下面写着“机密”。
The innocuous part is marked with a C in parentheses, which means Confidential, the lowest of the three levels of classification the government uses.
无害的部分在括号中标有“C”，这意味着“机密”，这是政府使用的三个分类级别中最低的一个。
And then at the bottom, it says "unclassified" again.
然后在底部，又写着“未分类”。
Hillary Clinton has said she didn't know that the c in parentheses meant the paragraph was classified.
希拉里·克林顿表示，她不知道括号中的 c 意味着该段落是机密。
Again, what you make of that depends on how you see her.
同样，你对此的看法取决于你如何看待她。
Either she's lying, or she just didnt know something basic about classified materials.
要么她在撒谎，要么她只是不了解一些有关机密材料的基本知识。
On Sunday, James Comey wrote to Congress saying the FBI had finished going through a whole slew of newly discovered emails.
周日，詹姆斯·科米写信给国会，称联邦调查局已经完成了一大堆新发现的电子邮件。
They were on a laptop that was confiscated in the investigation of Huma Abedin's husband, Anthony Wiener.
它们位于胡玛·阿贝丁的丈夫安东尼·维纳调查中被没收的一台笔记本电脑上。
Comey said nothing in the emails changed the conclusion that the FBI came to in July.
科米表示，电子邮件中的任何内容都没有改变联邦调查局 7 月份得出的结论。
That there was no criminal intent.
表明没有犯罪意图。
But that Secretary Clinton and her colleagues, quote, were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.
但克林顿国务卿和她的同事们在处理非常敏感、高度机密的信息时极其粗心。
I should mention something Garrett Graff told me a few times.
我应该提一下加勒特·格拉夫（Garrett Graff）告诉过我几次的事情。
He's a reporter, he said.
他说，他是一名记者。
And somewhere in the darker part of his heart, he always kind of wants to uncover some sort of wrongdoing, some juicy conspiracy.
在他内心深处的某个地方，他总是想揭露某种不法行为，某种诱人的阴谋。
And he's almost disappointed when he doesn't.
当他没有这样做时，他几乎感到失望。
But the times that he doesn't, those turn out to be all of the times.
但他不这样做的时候，结果却是所有的时候。
Well, this scandal underscores to me so much of what I have experienced in covering politics and national security for a decade.
嗯，这起丑闻向我强调了我十年来报道政治和国家安全时所经历的很多事情。
Which is, whenever you hear a government conspiracy theory, the almost universal truth is that the explanation is more likely either bureaucratic bungling or outright incompetence.
也就是说，每当你听到政府阴谋论时，几乎普遍的事实是，其解释更有可能是官僚主义的失误或彻底的无能。
In a sense, this would be the easiest and most candid way Hillary Clinton could explain herself.
从某种意义上说，这将是希拉里·克林顿解释自己的最简单、最坦率的方式。
Please forgive me.
请原谅我。
I and my staff, we just weren't that focused on my e-mails.
我和我的员工，我们只是不太关注我的电子邮件。
We didn't care very much about that.
我们对此不太关心。
We had other things to think about.
我们还有其他事情要考虑。
Yeah, I guess it's not surprising she doesn't explain it that way.
是的，我想她不这样解释并不奇怪。
Sean Cole is one of the producers of our program.
肖恩·科尔是我们节目的制作人之一。
[MUSIC -- "CHANGE THE SUBJECT" BY THE DAN COLLINS BAND]
[音乐——丹·柯林斯乐队的“改变主题”]
Knowing What We Know-- so if you're following the news at all, you know that Huma Abedin, one of Hillary Clinton's top aides, is married to former congressman Anthony Weiner who just this week reportedly checked himself into a sex addiction clinic.
了解我们所知道的——所以，如果你关注新闻，你就会知道希拉里·克林顿的高级助手之一胡玛·阿贝丁与前国会议员安东尼·韦纳结婚，据报道，韦纳本周刚刚到一家性成瘾诊所进行了检查。
Because after two public apologies when he was caught sending pictures of his crotch to random women online, he then went on to send a crotch shot to a 15-year-old girl and allegedly had a whole online sexual relationship with that girl.
因为当他被发现在网上向随机女性发送自己的胯部照片时，他两次公开道歉，然后他又向一名 15 岁女孩发送了一张胯部照片，并据称与该女孩在网上发生了完整的性关系。
That triggered investigation.
这引发了调查。
And as you probably know, his laptop and phone were seized.
您可能知道，他的笔记本电脑和手机被没收。
And then, while authorities were looking on his computer, they found e-mails between Weiner's wife, Huma Abedin, and Hillary Clinton.
然后，当当局查看他的电脑时，他们发现了韦纳的妻子胡玛·阿贝丁和希拉里·克林顿之间的电子邮件。
And those e-mails, of course, are what led the FBI to investigate another round of Clinton e-mails.
当然，这些电子邮件促使联邦调查局调查另一轮克林顿的电子邮件。
And that, of course, is what led to the dramatic drop in Clinton's poll numbers and, incidentally, to Donald Trump saying, thank you, Huma.
当然，这就是导致克林顿民意调查数字急剧下降的原因，顺便说一句，唐纳德·特朗普说，谢谢你，胡玛。
Good job, Huma.
干得好，胡玛。
If there's one person in the world who might understand what it's like for Huma Abedin to be a public figure and a woman repeatedly paying a public price for her husband's extramarital sex life-- she's in luck-- the one person in the world who might understand this best is probably her boss, Hillary Clinton.
如果世界上有一个人能够理解胡玛·阿贝丁作为一名公众人物以及一名女性不断为丈夫的婚外性生活付出公开代价的感受——她很幸运——那么世界上最能理解这一点的人可能就是她的老板希拉里·克林顿。
What is it like when they talk about this?
当他们谈论这个时，感觉如何？
OK, obviously, they're not going to do it over e-mail.
好吧，显然，他们不会通过电子邮件来完成此操作。
This requires face-to-face conversation.
这需要面对面的交谈。
This then is the conversation that we imagine they had last Friday.
这就是我们想象的他们上周五的谈话。
That's the day the news broke that Weiner's laptop-- because of his lap-- would change the focus and direction of the presidential election.
就在这一天，有消息称韦纳的笔记本电脑（因为他的膝盖）将改变总统选举的焦点和方向。
Or should I say the presidential-- never mind.
或者我应该说总统——没关系。
This, then, is the first conversation they have with that news hanging between them.
那么，这是他们带着这个消息进行的第一次对话。
I-- [DEEP SIGH].
我——[深深叹息]。
Actor As Hillary Clinton I know.
我知道演员希拉里·克林顿。
I know.
我知道。
Actor As Hillary Clinton I know.
我知道演员希拉里·克林顿。
I know.
我知道。
Actor As Hillary Clinton I know.
我知道演员希拉里·克林顿。
I know.
我知道。
Actor As Hillary Clinton I know.
我知道演员希拉里·克林顿。
(EXASPERATED) I know.
（愤怒）我知道。
I know.
我知道。
You know.
你知道。
Actor As Hillary Clinton I know.
我知道演员希拉里·克林顿。
You know.
你知道。
Actor As Hillary Clinton Ugh, I know.
演员 饰演 希拉里·克林顿 呃，我知道。
I know.
我知道。
Actor As Hillary Clinton You know I know!
演员 饰演 希拉里·克林顿 你知道我知道！
I know.
我知道。
Actor As Hillary Clinton I know.
我知道演员希拉里·克林顿。
[DEEP SIGH] Who knows.
[深叹]谁知道呢。
Actor As Hillary Clinton Hm.
演员 饰演 希拉里·克林顿 嗯。
I knew.
我知道。
Actor As Hillary Clinton Mm.
演员 饰演 希拉里·克林顿 Mm.
You knew!
你知道！
I know.
我知道。
I-- I didn't-- Actor As Hillary Clinton I know.
我——我没有——我知道演员扮演希拉里·克林顿。
I didn't know.
我不知道。
I didn't know-- you know, I didn't know--
我不知道——你知道，我不知道——
I know.
我知道。
I know.
我知道。
Actor As Huma Abedin Thanks for the talk.
演员 饰演 Huma Abedin 感谢您的演讲。
Actresses Tami Sagher and Cady Huffman playing the parts of Huma Abedin and Hillary Clinton.
女演员塔米·萨格尔和卡迪·霍夫曼分别饰演胡玛·阿贝丁和希拉里·克林顿。
[MUSIC -- "ONLY YOU" BY YAZ]
[音乐——YAZ 的《ONLY YOU》]
More coming up.
更多即将推出。
Cops try to catch a squirrel in an attic and other stuff that has no national importance at all that will not affect the fate of the nation in any way, stuff we have dug up from our archives to provide a break from current events, as we head into these last days before this election.
警察试图在阁楼上抓一只松鼠，以及其他一些根本不具有国家重要性、不会以任何方式影响国家命运的东西，这些东西是我们从档案中挖掘出来的，以便在我们进入大选前的最后几天时，为时事提供一个喘息的机会。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
And with that in mind, we have arrived at Act Three of our show.
考虑到这一点，我们已经进入了节目的第三幕。
Of Mice and Men.
老鼠和人。
This story is from a live show that we did on stage in New York.
这个故事来自我们在纽约舞台上进行的现场表演。
It's from comedian Mike Birbiglia.
这是喜剧演员迈克·比尔比利亚 (Mike Birbiglia) 的作品。
I think that my favorite thing about being married is actually that you can share jokes with your wife or husband that are funny to you and that person and no one else other than, maybe, your cat.
我认为结婚后我最喜欢的事情实际上是你可以与你的妻子或丈夫分享对你和那个人来说有趣的笑话，除了你的猫之外没有其他人。
Because when you have a cat, your barometer for humor-- phh!-- out the window.
因为当你养了一只猫时，你的幽默晴雨表——噗！——就被抛到了窗外。
Last summer, my wife and I went on a trip to Massachusetts.
去年夏天，我和妻子去马萨诸塞州旅行。
And I called it Catsachusetts, which is not funny but, in our house, was the joke of the year.
我把它称为“Catsachusetts”，这并不好笑，但在我们家却是今年的笑话。
I was like, we're going to Catsachusetts!
我当时想，我们要去卡萨胡塞特！
My wife is like, ahh!
我的妻子就像，啊！
I was like, ahh!
我当时想，啊！
Our cat was like, ahh!
我们的猫就像，啊！
Everyone loves a good pun when you have a cat.
当你养猫时，每个人都喜欢双关语。
And so, we drive the Catsachusetts.
所以，我们开车去卡萨胡塞特。
And when we arrive, my wife has a headache.
当我们到达时，我妻子头痛。
And she asks me if I will acclimate Ivan-- that's our cat-- to the bedroom.
她问我是否能让伊万——那是我们的猫——适应卧室。
Because you can't just put an indoor cat into a house, because he'll explode.
因为你不能把一只室内猫放进房子里，因为它会爆炸。
And so, I bring in the bedroom.
所以，我把卧室带进来。
But I'm so tired from the drive that I fall asleep, which is the only thing you cannot do when acclimating an indoor cat to a house.
但我开车太累了，以至于睡着了，这是让室内猫适应房子时唯一不能做的事情。
And so, I wake up an hour later.
于是，一个小时后我就醒了。
Ivan is gone.
伊万走了。
He got out.
他下了车。
And so, now I'm running around the house.
所以，现在我在房子里跑来跑去。
I'm like, my cat's going to explode.
我想，我的猫要爆炸了。
I wake up my wife.
我叫醒我的妻子。
I say, Clo-- her name is Jen.
我说，克洛——她的名字叫珍。
I say, Mr. Fantastic is gone.
我说，神奇先生走了。
His name's Ivan.
他的名字叫伊万。
And Clo gave me a look that I can only describe as divorce eyes.
克洛看了我一眼，我只能用离婚的眼神来形容。
Because before that point, I was convinced that we would be married forever.
因为在那之前，我确信我们会永远结婚。
And then, once I saw the divorce eyes, I was like, oh, I guess this could end.
然后，当我看到离婚的眼睛时，我想，哦，我想这可能会结束。
And if it ended, it would look a lot like that.
如果它结束了，它看起来会很像那样。
And so, now the two of us are running around the house.
所以，现在我们两个人在房子里跑来跑去。
I'm like, my marriage is falling apart!
我想，我的婚姻即将破裂！
My cat's going to explode!
我的猫要爆炸了！
And we find Ivan.
我们找到了伊万。
But we had another major problem in the house, which is that there were mice in the house.
但我们家里还有一个大问题，那就是家里有老鼠。
It was actually worse than that.
实际上比那更糟糕。
Because they were parasitic mice.
因为它们是寄生鼠。
They have what's called toxoplasmosis, which means they have a-- yeah, you might know what this is.
他们患有弓形虫病，这意味着他们患有——是的，你可能知道这是什么。
They have a parasite in them.
他们体内有寄生虫。
And as a result, they're unafraid of cats.
因此，他们并不害怕猫。
And they're unafraid of people.
而且他们不怕人。
And the way we discovered this was that my wife was watching TV.
我们发现这一点的方式是我妻子正在看电视。
And she looked next to her.
她看着旁边。
And there was a mouse.
还有一只老鼠。
And he was watching TV also.
而且他也在看电视。
And she sees screams!
她看到尖叫声！
And he just looked up at her like Stuart Little, like, hey, what's going on?
他只是像斯图尔特·利特尔一样抬头看着她，就像，嘿，发生了什么事？
I don't like this show either.
我也不喜欢这个节目。
I don't know why all those women would want to marry that one guy.
我不知道为什么所有这些女人都想嫁给那个男人。
And then, she pushed him off the couch.
然后，她把他从沙发上推了下来。
And he didn't even run away.
而他甚至没有逃跑。
He didn't even scurry, which is a verb invented for mice.
他甚至没有急忙，这是为老鼠发明的动词。
He just walked into the kitchen, like a roommate.
他就像一个室友一样走进了厨房。
Like, fine, I'll go in the other room.
好吧，我去另一个房间。
I just think you're overreacting.
我只是觉得你反应过度了。
And then, he did a confessional into the mouse cam in the kitchen.
然后，他对着厨房的鼠标摄像头做了忏悔。
He was like, I'm not here to make friends.
他说，我不是来交朋友的。
I'm here to win.
我来这里是为了获胜。
I was here before they came.
他们来之前我就在这里了。
I'll be here when they're gone.
他们走后我会在这儿。
I'm a mouse.
我是一只老鼠。
[LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE] That's The Real Mouse Lives of Catsachusetts.
[笑声和掌声]这就是卡萨胡塞特真正的老鼠生活。
That night, I'm sound asleep.
那天晚上，我睡得很熟。
And my wife wakes me up by grabbing my face.
我的妻子抓着我的脸把我叫醒。
She says, Mo-- my name's Mike-- Mr. Fantastic found the mouse.
她说，莫——我叫迈克——神奇先生发现了这只老鼠。
You need to get the mouse.
你需要得到鼠标。
And I sit up.
我坐了起来。
And I say, Clo.
我说，克洛。
We have a cat.
我们有一只猫。
We do everything for the cat.
我们所做的一切都是为了猫。
We give him food.
我们给他食物。
We give him an apartment that he thinks is the world.
我们给了他一套他认为就是全世界的公寓。
We set aside an the area in the apartment for him to poop in that we clean more often than the area where we poop.
我们在公寓里预留了一个区域供他排便，因为我们清洁的频率比我们排便的区域更频繁。
We have a gentleman's agreement that, in the unlikely event that a mouse should walk in that door, (MARLON BRANDO ACCENT) that he will kill that mouse.
我们有一个君子协议，万一有一只老鼠走进那扇门（马龙·白兰度口音），他就会杀死那只老鼠。
And we will never speak of that mouse again.
我们再也不会谈论那只老鼠了。
And he will be protected.
并且他会受到保护。
My wife says, Mo, get the mouse.
我妻子说，莫，拿鼠标。
And I sit up.
我坐了起来。
And I see what may be the strangest tableau I will ever witness in my entire life.
我看到了我一生中见过的最奇怪的景象。
Ivan's smacking the mouse.
伊万正在打老鼠。
The mouse flies in the air, lands, gets up, walks back towards Ivan.
老鼠在空中飞翔，落地，站起来，走回伊万身边。
Ivan smacks the mouse!
伊万打老鼠！
It flies in the air, lands, gets up, walks back towards Ivan.
它在空中飞翔，降落，站起来，走回伊万身边。
Ivan is thrilled.
伊万很兴奋。
His toy is alive!
他的玩具还活着！
I have a serious sleepwalking disorder.
我有严重的梦游症。
So as I'm watching this, I'm not even really sure it's happening.
所以当我看到这个的时候，我什至不确定它是否正在发生。
I'm thinking, I've had this dream before.
我想，我以前也做过这样的梦。
My wife says, Mo, get the mouse.
我妻子说，莫，拿鼠标。
And she hands me a cup.
她递给我一个杯子。
I sit up.
我坐起来。
I walk towards the mouse.
我走向老鼠。
And the mouse walks towards me.
然后老鼠朝我走来。
I put the cup over the mouse.
我把杯子放在鼠标上。
I put a magazine under the cup.
我在杯子下面放了一本杂志。
I take the cup into the backyard.
我把杯子带到后院。
And I put the mouse into the forest, where I can only assume that he walked into the mouth of a wolf.
我把老鼠放进了森林里，在那里我只能假设他走进了狼的嘴里。
And from that day forward, we have called it Mousachusetts.
从那天起，我们将其称为“Mousachusetts”。
[LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE] I want to point out something really special that happened there at the end.
[笑声和掌声]我想指出最后发生的一些非常特别的事情。
A few minutes ago, I prefaced the story with a Massachusetts-based pun, Catsachusetts, which we all agreed, as a group, is not funny.
几分钟前，我用马萨诸塞州的双关语“Catsachusetts”作为故事的序言，我们都认为，作为一个群体，这并不好笑。
Just moments ago, I concluded the story with another Massachusetts-based pun that was nearly identical.
就在不久前，我用另一个几乎相同的马萨诸塞州双关语结束了这个故事。
And that was Mousachusetts.
那就是穆萨胡塞特。
And we applauded.
我们鼓掌。
Which means, in a way, it's like we're married.
这意味着，在某种程度上，我们就像结婚了一样。
[LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE] Ira Glass Mike Birbiglia--
[笑声和掌声] Ira Glass Mike Birbiglia——
I do!
我愿意！
Ira Glass His movie Don't Think Twice is available for pre-order on iTunes.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 他的电影《别三思而后行》(Don’t Think Twice) 现已在 iTunes 上接受预订。
It comes out there in a week.
一周后就会出来。
[MUSIC -- "MICE!" FROM 3HREE, THE NEW MUSICAL]
[音乐——“老鼠！”从 3HREE 开始，新音乐剧]
Squirrel Cop-- so we close our program today with this story from a police officer in a suburban community on the East Coast.
松鼠警察——所以我们今天以东海岸郊区社区一名警察的故事来结束我们的节目。
There was nothing, nothing going on.
什么也没有，什么也没有发生。
Saturday night in this village-- really quite, super cold.
周六晚上在这个村庄——真的很安静，超级冷。
And this call came over for unknown animal in a house.
这个电话是因为房子里有未知的动物而发出的。
And it was on my post.
它就在我的帖子上。
It was about five minutes away.
大约五分钟路程就到了。
So myself and another car were assigned the call.
所以我和另一辆车被分配了这个电话。
And we show up there.
我们出现在那里。
And luckily for me, it was another guy who was pretty new.
对我来说幸运的是，这是另一个新人。
So we walk up to the door with all our stuff on, the nylon coat, the vest, the belt, the whole nine yards.
所以我们穿着所有的东西走到门口，尼龙外套，背心，腰带，整整九码。
And the door opens.
门打开了。
And the guy who is behind the door-- he's about 30.
门后那个人——他大约 30 岁。
I was 23 at the time.
当时我23岁。
He's about 30.
他大约30岁。
He looks like a broker or a lawyer.
他看起来像一个经纪人或律师。
He's just really well put together, a nice guy, wearing glasses.
他身材很好，戴着眼镜，是个很好的人。
He's wearing these, like, silk pajamas with a monogram.
他穿着这些，就像是带有字母组合的丝绸睡衣。
Got my attention.
引起了我的注意。
Wow.
哇。
Police Officer And he's going, listen, I'm really sorry to bother you.
警官 他要走了，听着，我真的很抱歉打扰你。
Normally, I'd handle this sort of stuff on my own.
一般情况下，这种事情我都会自己处理。
But my wife really insists that I call.
但我妻子确实坚持要我打电话。
And so, we ask him what the problem is.
因此，我们问他问题是什么。
He says, well, we were having kind of a romantic evening down in the living room.
他说，好吧，我们在客厅度过了一个浪漫的夜晚。
And we heard this scratching upstairs.
我们听到楼上有刮擦声。
So I ran upstairs to see what it was.
于是我跑上楼看看那是什么。
And it turns out it's coming from the attic.
事实证明它来自阁楼。
There's something up there.
上面有东西。
And it's just running around knocking a few small things over.
它只是跑来跑去撞倒一些小东西。
I can't tell what it is.
我不知道那是什么。
It could be a squirrel, a raccoon.
它可能是一只松鼠，一只浣熊。
I really don't know.
我真的不知道。
So the other cop that I was with said, well, we really don't handle that.
和我在一起的另一位警察说，好吧，我们真的不处理这个问题。
It's not so much a police function.
这与其说是警察职能。
But we do have numbers of these private contractors who will come in.
但我们确实有很多私人承包商愿意加入。
And they'll put a humane trap down.
他们会设下人道的陷阱。
And they'll remove the animal for you.
他们会帮你把动物移走。
And it's really not such a big deal.
这确实没什么大不了的。
But it's really not our thing.
但这确实不是我们的事。
So right as he was in the middle of saying that and getting us off the hook, the guy swings the door back.
就在他正要说这句话并让我们摆脱困境时，那家伙把门向后打开了。
And there's his wife, who was just beautiful.
还有他的妻子，非常漂亮。
She was beautiful.
她很漂亮。
She was probably about 26 or 27 but just really beautiful, like, perfect skin, long blond hair, great teeth, brilliant blue eyes, a really nice smile.
她可能大约 26 或 27 岁，但真的很漂亮，完美的皮肤，长长的金发，漂亮的牙齿，明亮的蓝眼睛，非常漂亮的微笑。
Just like beautiful and friendly.
就像美丽和友善一样。
If she had said, eat this broken glass, I just would have said, OK, broken glass it is.
如果她说，吃掉这个碎玻璃，我就会说，好吧，就是碎玻璃。
That's fine.
没关系。
But she seemed really nice.
但她看起来真的很好。
So I was going to be, like, Galahad.
所以我会成为加拉哈德。
So I just threw my arm back into this guy's chest, into my partner's chest, and I said, Mark, we can handle this.
所以我只是把我的手臂放回到这个家伙的胸口，进入我伴侣的胸膛，然后我说，马克，我们可以处理这个。
[LAUGHTER] It'll be OK.
[笑声] 会没事的。
And she was just, thank you so much.
她只是，非常感谢。
And she was really sweet.
她真的很甜蜜。
And I was, like, struck dead.
我就像被撞死了。
So we walk inside.
所以我们走进去。
And she goes, I'm going to throw a pot of coffee on.
她说，我要倒一壶咖啡。
And we go upstairs.
我们上楼。
We follow the man of the house upstairs.
我们跟着男主人上楼。
And we're underneath one of those trapdoors that goes into the attic with the staircase that folds out.
我们位于一扇通往阁楼的活板门下面，楼梯可以折叠起来。
Right.
正确的。
Police Officer And we do hear an animal upstairs, scratching away, just kind of scuttling around the floor.
警官 我们确实听到楼上有一只动物在抓挠，就像在地板上跑来跑去。
And there's definitely something up there.
上面肯定有东西。
And it's making pretty good speed, going from one end of the roof to the other.
从屋顶的一端到另一端，它的速度相当快。
So I reached up.
于是我伸手。
And I took the trapdoor down.
我把活板门取下来。
We unfolded the ladder.
我们展开了梯子。
And I have this big heavy flashlight, like, your cop flashlight, the four D-cells, the metal case, the whole thing.
我有一个又大又重的手电筒，就像你的警察手电筒一样，四个 D 电池，金属外壳，整个东西。
Right.
正确的。
Police Officer And I shine it up through the hole in there.
警官和我从那里的洞里照亮它。
And it's pretty black.
而且它很黑。
I can see the rafters, but really nothing else around there.
我可以看到椽子，但周围什么也没有。
And I start up the ladder.
我开始爬上梯子。
Now, the guy who owned the house is standing almost directly underneath me, just to the side of the ladder, looking straight up at me.
现在，房子的主人几乎就站在我的正下方，就在梯子的一侧，直视着我。
And my partner is at the base of the ladder right behind me.
我的伙伴就在我身后的梯子底部。
So just before I stuck my head through this black hole, I just kind of paused.
所以就在我把头伸进这个黑洞之前，我停了下来。
Like, I crunched my body up underneath.
就像，我把身体压在下面。
Because I'm realizing, gee, you know, I don't know where this thing is.
因为我意识到，天哪，你知道，我不知道这东西在哪里。
The second we pulled down the trapdoor, all noise upstairs just ceased.
当我们拉下活板门的那一刻，楼上的所有噪音就停止了。
So I was kind of nervous.
所以我有点紧张。
And I was like, well, I look like an idiot just crouched up here on the top of the ladder.
我当时想，好吧，我看起来就像一个蹲在梯子顶上的白痴。
So I took the flashlight.
于是我就拿了手电筒。
And I just popped my head up, turned the light on again.
我抬起头，再次打开灯。
And about six inches from the front of my face was this squirrel at eye level with me, kind of reared back on its legs.
距离我脸前约六英寸处，有一只松鼠，与我的视线齐平，有点用腿向后仰着。
And I swear, from where I was standing, it looked like Godzilla.
我发誓，从我站的地方看，它看起来就像哥斯拉。
It just scared the heck out of me.
这简直把我吓坏了。
I thought, it's a squirrel.
我想，这是一只松鼠。
It's going to be hiding somewhere.
它会躲在某个地方。
It's going to be terrified of me.
它会害怕我的。
It was six inches away from me.
它离我有六英寸远。
And it really startled me.
这真的让我吃了一惊。
So I kind of went, ah!
于是我就去了，啊！
and jumped back.
然后跳了回来。
And the flashlight slips out of my hands.
手电筒从我手中滑落。
And it's heavy.
而且很重。
And it falls directly onto the nose of the guy who's looking straight up at me.
它直接落在那个直视我的家伙的鼻子上。
And I don't think it broke it, but it did some damage.
我不认为它破坏了它，但它造成了一些损害。
And his nose-- his hands up to his face.
还有他的鼻子——他的双手举到脸上。
Blood just started pouring out between his hands.
鲜血刚刚开始从他双手之间涌出。
This is the homeowner?
这是楼主吗？
Police Officer This is the homeowner.
警官 这是房主。
I lose my balance and fall backwards, directly onto my partner.
我失去平衡，向后摔倒，直接摔倒在我的搭档身上。
And I just pancake him.
我只是煎饼他。
We're both on our backs.
我们俩都在背上。
He's on his back.
他在他的背上。
I'm on his stomach on my back, scuttling around like a beetle, trying to get up in this really narrow hallway.
我趴在他的背上，像甲虫一样窜来窜去，试图在这个非常狭窄的走廊里站起来。
It's a mess.
真是一团糟。
The squirrel, while we're floundering around in the hallway, jumps down the stairs-- boink, boink, boink-- lands on me and takes off down the stairs.
当我们在走廊里挣扎时，松鼠从楼梯上跳下来——叮叮叮，叮叮叮——落在我身上，然后从楼梯上跳下来。
How undignified!
多么没有尊严啊！
Police Officer It was terrible.
警察 太可怕了。
It was terrible.
太可怕了。
So we're wondering, gee, where's the squirrel?
所以我们想知道，天哪，松鼠在哪里？
An right at that second, the woman who lived there-- you hear her scream.
就在那一刻，住在那里的女人——你听到她的尖叫声。
So my partner goes, well, we found the squirrel.
所以我的伙伴说，好吧，我们找到了松鼠。
It's wherever she is.
无论她在哪里，都是如此。
Yeah.
是的。
Police Officer So we go running downstairs.
警官 所以我们就跑下楼去。
And the squirrel had come into the living room where they had been having their romantic evening.
松鼠来到了客厅，他们正在那里度过了浪漫的夜晚。
They had a fire going.
他们着火了。
They had pillows arranged around one corner of the couch next to the fire.
他们在火炉旁的沙发一角放了枕头。
And they had champagne flutes out and-- nice house, really nice.
他们还拿出香槟酒杯——漂亮的房子，真的很好。
I mean, it just smelled brand new, new carpeting, new rugs, new paint.
我的意思是，它只是闻起来是全新的、新地毯、新地毯、新油漆的味道。
They hadn't been there for that long.
他们已经很久没有去那里了。
So the squirrel, when it bolted down the staircase, took off into the living room and ran underneath the couch for cover.
于是，当松鼠冲下楼梯时，它就跑进客厅，跑到沙发底下寻找庇护。
So we run downstairs.
于是我们跑下楼。
This guy is bleeding all over the place on his carpets.
这家伙的地毯上到处都是血。
His wife looks and says, what have you done to my husband?
他的妻子看着说，你对我丈夫做了什么？
And I start going, oh, it was an accident.
我开始说，哦，这是一次意外。
And I just stop in mid-sentence.
我只说到一半就停了下来。
What's the point?
有什么意义？
We've only been there about two minutes.
我们只到了那里大约两分钟。
So the squirrel is underneath the couch.
所以松鼠在沙发下面。
And my partner is going, you know, let's get out of here.
我的搭档要走了，你知道，我们离开这里吧。
This is just not going well.
这进展并不顺利。
So I-- I'm not beaten yet.
所以我——我还没有被打败。
I always have another idea.
我总是有另一个想法。
So the squirrel is under this couch, which is in the middle of the room.
所以松鼠就在房间中央的沙发下面。
So I have this bright idea.
所以我有这个好主意。
Why don't we move the furniture away from one of the corners and we'll put the couch in the corner.
我们为什么不把家具从角落里移开，然后把沙发放在角落里。
And the squirrel will probably move along with the couch, because it's the only cover available to it.
松鼠可能会随着沙发一起移动，因为这是它唯一可用的盖子。
And once we get it into the corner, we'll only have two open sides of the couch to worry about.
一旦我们把它放到角落里，我们就只剩下沙发的两个开放的侧面需要担心了。
So we did that.
所以我们就这么做了。
That is so tactical!
这太有战术了！
Police Officer Yes.
警官 是的。
Yeah, I was very proud of myself at that instant.
是的，那一刻我为自己感到非常自豪。
But you know, I asked her for a box.
但你知道，我向她要了一个盒子。
And she says, sure, we've got boxes.
她说，当然，我们有盒子。
We just moved in.
我们刚搬进来。
We have nothing but boxes.
我们除了箱子什么都没有。
She runs out to the garage.
她跑到车库。
And she comes back with a box.
她带着一个盒子回来了。
And the box is long enough and it fits across the entire short side of the couch, where the armrest would be.
而且盒子足够长，可以容纳沙发的整个短边，也就是扶手所在的地方。
So I start sweeping underneath the couch with my nightstick, trying to move the squirrel toward the box, figuring we'll capture it and just get rid of it.
于是我开始用警棍在沙发下面清扫，试图把松鼠移向盒子，想着我们能抓住它并摆脱它。
And we'll be out here.
我们会在这里。
And there'll be no more mayhem.
不会再有混乱了。
So it's actually working very well.
所以它实际上运作得很好。
And the squirrels moving down along.
松鼠也跟着往下走。
You can hear it.
你可以听到它。
It's chittering.
它在叽叽喳喳地叫着。
And I'm trying not to hurt it.
我努力不伤害它。
I feel kind of-- I'm nervous about the thing.
我觉得有点——我对这件事感到紧张。
It might bite me.
它可能会咬我。
I don't want to hurt it really.
我真的不想伤害它。
It's just an animal.
它只是一只动物。
Right.
正确的。
Police Officer So I'm moving it along.
警官 那么我就继续吧。
And everything is going very well.
一切都很顺利。
And then, with about eight inches to go, I took one more swipe.
然后，在还剩大约八英寸的时候，我又挥了一下。
And the thing just bolted out from underneath the couch.
那东西就从沙发下面冲了出来。
It was lined with, like, tassels.
它的内衬就像流苏一样。
I couldn't really see under the couch.
我真的看不到沙发下面。
It bolted out from underneath the couch and ran directly into the fireplace, which is about three feet away.
它从沙发下面冲了出来，直接跑进了大约三英尺远的壁炉里。
The fireplace was directly ahead of it.
壁炉就在它的正前方。
And it ran into the fire--
然后它就跑进了火里——
Oh my!
天啊！
Police Officer --and caught on fire and ran directly back out and directly back under the couch.
警官——着火了，直接跑了出去，直接跑回沙发底下。
(INTERVIEWER) IRA GLASS: What?
（采访者） IRA GLASS：什么？
Is it on fire?
着火了吗？
(SUBJECT) POLICE OFFICER: It was on fire.
（主题）警察：着火了。
Yeah, the tail, the bushy fur, the whole bit.
是的，尾巴，浓密的皮毛，全部。
It wasn't flaming or anything.
它没有燃烧或任何东西。
But it was smoking.
但它正在冒烟。
And there was a little bit of fire coming off the tail.
尾巴上还冒出了一点火光。
So it runs back under the couch.
所以它又跑回沙发下面了。
And the couch catches on fire in seconds, I mean, in seconds.
沙发在几秒钟内就着火了，我的意思是，几秒钟内。
It must have had dust under there or something else.
下面肯定有灰尘或其他什么东西。
But it just caught on fire immediately.
但它立刻就着火了。
And my partner and I just don't even talk.
我和我的搭档甚至不说话。
We just grab the couch, heave it upside down.
我们只要抓住沙发，把它倒过来。
And now there's plenty of oxygen for the fire to really get going.
现在有足够的氧气让火真正燃烧起来。
And it starts up.
它启动了。
And we're patting it out.
我们正在拍它。
And it's sort of getting away from us.
它正在远离我们。
So we grab the only thing that's really available.
所以我们抓住唯一真正可用的东西。
And those are these really nice silk pillows.
这些都是非常漂亮的丝绸枕头。
And we have one in each hand, the both of us, and we're just windmilling away at this fire on the couch.
我们每只手都拿着一个，我们就在沙发上的篝火上随风而行。
And we put it out.
我们把它拿出来了。
But it's smoking terribly.
但抽烟太厉害了
And it was just-- it was a disaster.
这简直是一场灾难。
The couch is upside down.
沙发是倒过来的。
The bottom of it is burnt.
它的底部被烧焦了。
The house is filling with smoke from the couch.
房子里充满了沙发上的烟雾。
The squirrel, when it went under the couch in its death throes, just latched onto the bottom of the couch.
当松鼠在垂死的痛苦中钻到沙发下面时，它只是卡在了沙发的底部。
It's like this smoking piece of gristle underneath the couch, latched on there with its claws.
它就像沙发下面冒着烟的软骨，用爪子卡住了。
And were pounding, smearing it all over the place.
并且正在敲打，将其涂抹得到处都是。
And the smoke alarms are firing away.
烟雾警报器正在响起。
The guy is standing with handkerchiefs and paper towels up around his nose, which is still bleeding.
那家伙站着，用手帕和纸巾捂着鼻子，鼻子还在流血。
His pajamas are a mess.
他的睡衣乱七八糟。
They're covered with blood, the front of them.
他们的前面沾满了血。
And we finally get the fire out.
我们终于把火扑灭了。
And we're both completely red, sweating.
我们都满脸通红，大汗淋漓。
Because we're dressed for, like, zero degree weather.
因为我们的穿着适合零度天气。
And it's hot there by the fire.
而且火边很热。
We're mortified.
我们很羞愧。
The house is full of smoke.
房子里充满了烟雾。
The wife just looks around and just starts to cry.
妻子只是环顾四周，然后就开始哭泣。
She goes, what-- what have you done?
她说，你——你做了什么？
What have you done to my house?
你对我家做了什么？
You could see her just clicking things off on her fingers.
你可以看到她只是用手指敲击东西。
OK, dead squirrel, ruined pillows, need a new couch.
好吧，死松鼠，毁了枕头，需要一张新沙发。
The walls are covered with soot.
墙壁上布满了烟灰。
The fire alarms are going off.
火警警报响起。
My husband's disfigured.
我老公毁容了
And then, she really kind of just lost it.
然后，她真的就失去了它。
And he was just looking at us and shaking his head like he couldn't believe that these two idiots showed up and did this to his house over nothing really.
他只是看着我们，摇着头，好像他不敢相信这两个白痴出现了，而且毫无缘由地对他的房子做了这样的事。
And he just goes, you know, you really haven't done anything wrong.
他只是说，你知道，你真的没有做错任何事。
I can't point to any one thing that you did that I have a reason to get angry about.
我无法指出你所做的任何一件事是我有理由生气的。
You really haven't done anything wrong.
你确实没有做错任何事。
I mean, we did call you.
我的意思是，我们确实给你打电话了。
But I just-- I can't thank you for this.
但我只是——我不能为此感谢你。
They call for a squirrel.
他们呼唤一只松鼠。
They end up with, like, $3,000, $4,000 worth of damage and a broken nose.
他们最终遭受了价值 3,000 美元、4,000 美元的损失，鼻子也被打断。
And this is all within about five minutes.
这一切都在大约五分钟内完成。
As it turned out, the squirrel-- it was a Pyrrhic victory for the squirrel.
事实证明，对于松鼠来说，这是一场代价高昂的胜利。
But the squirrel definitely won.
但松鼠确实赢了。
The squirrel really kicked our ass.
松鼠真的踢了我们的屁股。
(LAUGHING) That is not what you want to be saying at the end of the day.
（笑）这不是你在一天结束时想说的话。
No, no. Ira Glass Could that have happened to you now 13 years later?
不，不。 Ira Glass 13 年后的今天，这会发生在你身上吗？
There's always a new mistake to be made.
总是会犯新的错误。
I don't think I would make that particular mistake.
我不认为我会犯那个特别的错误。
I mean, you make plenty of mistakes.
我的意思是，你犯了很多错误。
You make plenty of mistakes.
你犯了很多错误。
That's just part of that job.
这只是该工作的一部分。
You just try not to make the same one twice.
你只是尽量不要做两次同样的事情。
But there's such variety that, you're going to make hundreds-- you're going to make thousands of mistakes.
但事情的多样性如此之大，你可能会犯数百个——你可能会犯数千个错误。
You're going to make thousands of mistakes until you really get a handle on what you're doing.
在你真正掌握自己正在做的事情之前，你会犯成千上万的错误。
When that interview first ran on our program a long time ago, our interviewee, who asked not to be named on the radio, has now been on the force for 31 years.
很久以前，当那段采访首次在我们的节目中播出时，我们的受访者（一位不愿在广播中透露姓名的人）现在已经在警队工作了 31 年。
[MUSIC -- "ELECTION DAY" BY NOBLE SISSLE & EUBIE BLSAKE]
[音乐——NOBLE SISSLE 和 EUBIE BLSAKE 创作的《选举日》]
Well, our staff-- Elna Baker, Elise Bergerson, Susan Burton, Zoe Chace, Dana Chivas, Sean Cole, Emily Condon, Whitney Dangerfield, Neil Drumming, Karen Duffin, Emmanuel Dzotsi, Stephanie Foo, Kimberly Henderson, Chana Joffe-Walt, David Kestenbaum, Seth Lind, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, Matt Tierney, Nancy Updike, and Julie Whitaker.
那么，我们的员工——Elna Baker、Elise Bergerson、Susan Burton、Zoe Chace、Dana Chivas、Sean Cole、Emily Condon、Whitney Dangerfield、Neil Drumming、Karen Duffin、Emmanuel Dzotsi、Stephanie Foo、Kimberly Henderson、Chana Joffe-Walt、David Kestenbaum、Seth Lind、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Robyn Semien，艾丽莎·希普、马特·蒂尔尼、南希·厄普代克和朱莉·惠特克。
Research help today from Christopher Swatela, Benjamin Fallon, and Michelle Harris.
Christopher Swatela、Benjamin Fallon 和 Michelle Harris 今天提供了研究帮助。
Music help from Damian Gray.
达米安·格雷的音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] And just a little program note.
[致谢] 还有一个小程序说明。
We have all kinds of things on our website for the election, including daily election animated cartoons by Chris Ware and John Kuramoto.
我们的网站上有各种各样的选举内容，包括克里斯·韦尔和约翰·仓本制作的每日选举动画。
We've been posting a new one every day on our site.
我们每天都会在我们的网站上发布新的内容。
We're going to keep it going through the week of the election.
我们将在选举期间继续进行。
Also on our website, videos-- yes, videos-- of the songs that Leslie Odom, Jr., Neil Patrick Harris, and John Ellison Conlee did for our show, singing as, respectively, President Obama, House Speaker Paul Ryan, and RNC Chair Reince Priebus.
另外，在我们的网站上，还有视频——是的，视频——小莱斯利·奥多姆、尼尔·帕特里克·哈里斯和约翰·埃里森·康利为我们的节目创作的歌曲，分别以奥巴马总统、众议院议长保罗·瑞安和共和党全国委员会主席雷因斯·普里巴斯的身份演唱。
The videos are so wonderful if you haven't seen them, I have to say, especially the Paul Ryan, Neil Patrick Harris.
如果你还没看过的话，我不得不说，这些视频太精彩了，尤其是保罗·瑞安、尼尔·帕特里克·哈里斯。
Also on our website-- I'm not done yet-- in response to listener demand on Twitter, true listener demand, we are also now offering MP3 downloads free of the three election songs.
另外，在我们的网站上——我还没说完——为了回应 Twitter 上听众的需求，真正的听众需求，我们现在还提供免费的三首选举歌曲的 MP3 下载。
So OK, all of that-- the cartoons, the music videos, the MP3s-- at our website, thisamericanlife.org.
好吧，所有这些——卡通、音乐视频、MP3——都在我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org 上。
Easy to remember name.
名字容易记住。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thank you, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, he takes our show so personally, so, so personally.
你知道，他对我们的节目非常个人化、非常个人化。
He has told me, he feels like it's me and the other contributors speaking directly to him, like we were there in the room.
他告诉我，他觉得是我和其他贡献者直接与他交谈，就像我们就在房间里一样。
And at the end of every episode, he turns to his radio.
每集结束时，他都会打开收音机。
And he says--
他说——
Thanks for the talk.
谢谢你的谈话。
Ira Glass I'm Ira Glass.
艾拉·格拉斯 我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。