600: Will I Know Anyone at This Party? - This American Life

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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #600 | October 28, 2016 600: Will I Know Anyone at This Party?

00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 600 集 | 2016 年 10 月 28 日 600：我在这个聚会上认识任何人吗？

Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。

If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.

如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。

Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue Ira Glass OK, so there is, of course, a seismic historic change going on right now in the Republican Party this year.

序言 艾拉·格拉斯 好吧，当然，今年共和党正在发生一场翻天覆地的历史性变化。

And one of our producers, Zoe Chace, told me about this place where you can eavesdrop on a group of friends, idealistic Republican friends, as they fret and cope and argue about that change week after week.

我们的一位制片人佐伊·查斯 (Zoe Chace) 告诉我，在这个地方，你可以偷听一群朋友，理想主义的共和党朋友，他们一周又一周为这一变化而烦恼、应对和争论。

And there is a lot of pain.

并且有很多痛苦。

Zoe has been covering Donald Trump and the Republican Party for our show all year, and every week she listens to this podcast called Ricochet as soon as it goes up.

佐伊一整年都在为我们的节目报道唐纳德·特朗普和共和党，每周她都会在这个名为“Ricochet”的播客上线后立即收听。

The three hosts of Ricochet describe themselves as center-right.

《跳弹》的三位主持人将自己描述为中右派。

They're basically Reagan Republicans.

他们基本上是里根共和党人。

In fact, one of them was actually a Reagan speechwriter.

事实上，其中一位实际上是里根的演讲撰稿人。

And like old school Republicans all over the country, this year, they've been trying to square their old school conservative ideals with their game changing nominee and with what they see their party turning into.

就像全国各地的老派共和党人一样，今年，他们一直在努力将他们的老派保守派理想与他们改变游戏规则的提名人以及他们所看到的政党转变相结合。

Here's Zoe.

这是佐伊。

And the thing that's emerged is, one of the hosts, Rob Long, he cannot be convinced to get behind Donald Trump.

出现的情况是，主持人之一罗布·朗（Rob Long）无法说服他支持唐纳德·特朗普（Donald Trump）。

And he's in pain over the whole thing.

他对整件事感到痛苦。

And then one of the other hosts, Peter Robinson, is a reluctant Trump supporter.

另一位主持人彼得·罗宾逊（Peter Robinson）是一位不情愿的特朗普支持者。

And he brings on people that try to make all of them feel OK about supporting the Republican nominee for president.

他召集了一些人，试图让所有人都对支持共和党总统候选人感到满意。

And Rob Long just isn't buying it.

罗布·朗 (Rob Long) 并不买账。

Like, one time this scholar named Larry Arnn, who's also president of Hillsdale College, he came on the show with research into Donald Trump's writings and statements going back years.

比如，有一次这位名叫拉里·阿恩 (Larry Arnn) 的学者（同时也是希尔斯代尔学院院长）出现在节目中，对唐纳德·特朗普多年前的著作和声明进行了研究。

And we find things going back to 1990 or in '91, and they are consistent.

我们发现事情可以追溯到 1990 年或 91 年，而且它们是一致的。

Donald Trump is engaged in a major assault upon the regulatory state.

唐纳德·特朗普正在对监管国家发起重大攻击。

And it is the most full-throated one that I have heard since Ronald Reagan.

这是自罗纳德·里根以来我听过的最激烈的一次。

Rob Long is also on the line.

罗布·朗也上线了。

Rob Long I'm having a mini stroke here.

罗布·朗 我有点中风了。

I guess I would start by saying something from the movie Jaws-- I'd be worried a lot less if I thought you were worried a little more.

我想我会先说电影《大白鲨》中的一些话——如果我认为你多担心一点，我就会少担心很多。

The idea that you've used the word "consistent" to describe Donald Trump is, to me, ludicrous.

在我看来，你用“一致”这个词来形容唐纳德·特朗普的想法是可笑的。

Have you followed Donald Trump's business career?

您关注唐纳德·特朗普的商业生涯吗？

He has been an emphatic, full-throated supporter of government intervention.

他一直是政府干预的坚定、全力支持者。

He has used those levers to get buildings built and to get bankruptcies disposed of.

他利用这些杠杆来建造建筑物并处理破产案。

I don't know what--

我不知道什么——

Rob is now curled into a little ball, I think.

我想罗布现在已经蜷缩成一个小球了。

Zoe and I invited Rob Long into our studio to talk about how Donald Trump is changing the party.

佐伊和我邀请罗布·朗来到我们的工作室，谈论唐纳德·特朗普如何改变政党。

Rob Long says that it's pained him, hearing his friends say we have to win this year.

罗布·朗说，听到他的朋友们说我们今年必须获胜，这让他很痛苦。

Winning under those principles is really not worth it.

在这些原则下获胜确实不值得。

I mean, win?

我是说，赢了？

Win and what?

赢了又怎样？

Raise tariffs 25% on imports?

进口关税提高25%？

It's crazy.

太疯狂了。

That's a crazy, crazy, crazy ignorant idea.

这是一个疯狂、疯狂、疯狂的无知想法。

And I think that Trump isn't even-- I mean, this thing on the bus, the audio on the bus, I mean, anyone who was surprised by that?

我认为特朗普甚至——我的意思是，公共汽车上的这个东西，公共汽车上的音频，我的意思是，有人对此感到惊讶吗？

I mean, give me a break.

我的意思是，让我休息一下。

We knew he talks like that.

我们知道他这样说话。

To me, it's more like, at any point, Trump could have chosen to be a big person.

对我来说，特朗普在任何时候都可以选择成为一个大人物。

He could have chosen.

他本来可以选择的。

He could have just sat there in Trump Tower and said, "You know, I'm going to have a speech about how great Martin Luther King was, and how great America is, and how we all need to come together.

他本可以坐在特朗普大厦里说：“你知道，我将发表一场演讲，讲述马丁·路德·金是多么伟大，美国是多么伟大，以及我们大家如何需要团结在一起。

I'm going to give a big-- somebody write me a big speech.

我要发表一个重要的——有人给我写一篇重要的演讲。

I don't know the words.

我不认识这个词。

You give me the words, but I want a big, big, big speech."

你给我演讲，但我想要一场盛大、盛大、盛大的演讲。”

He could have done that.

他本来可以这么做的。

It would have cost him zero.

他的成本为零。

He just chose each time the small route.

他每次都只是选择小路线。

And I just find that offensive.

我只是觉得这令人反感。

I just am offended by that.

我只是对此感到生气。

I think it's a great, great, great gift to run for president.

我认为竞选总统是一份非常非常非常好的礼物。

It's a great gift to be an American.

作为一个美国人，这是一份很棒的礼物。

And for him to do that and to treat it that way, callously, that's wrong.

他这样做并以这种方式对待它，冷酷无情，这是错误的。

But it's not just Trump.

但这不仅仅是特朗普。

For all three Ricochet guys, what's disturbing is the issues that Republican voters are abandoning this year and the issues they've decided to move towards.

对于所有三个跳弹者来说，令人不安的是共和党选民今年放弃的问题以及他们决定采取的问题。

In one of their episodes, the Ricochet hosts had this Republican political guy, Avik Roy, who's been a policy adviser to Marco Rubio, and Rick Perry, and Mitt Romney during their presidential campaigns.

在他们的一集中，Ricochet 主持人邀请了共和党政治人物阿维克·罗伊 (Avik Roy)，他曾在马可·卢比奥 (Marco Rubio)、里克·佩里 (Rick Perry) 和米特·罗姆尼 (Mitt Romney) 的总统竞选期间担任政策顾问。

I interviewed him too.

我也采访过他。

Roy has gotten some attention in the press for saying how dismayed he is that traditional Republican ideals have been cast aside this year.

罗伊因表示他对今年传统的共和党理想被抛在一边感到多么沮丧，引起了媒体的关注。

He says the issue these days that really animates Republican voters is immigration.

他说，如今真正让共和党选民兴奋的问题是移民。

What the party is about is racial resentment.

该党的宗旨是种族仇恨。

What I saw the Republican Party becoming was a vehicle for the grievance of disaffected whites who believed that the Republican Party should be an interest group for whites.

我看到共和党变成了表达不满白人不满的工具，他们认为共和党应该成为白人的利益集团。

Do you feel like this is your party, the party that you see now?

你觉得这是你的聚会吗？你现在看到的聚会吗？

No, I don't.

不，我不。

And I don't know if I consider myself a Republican anymore.

我不知道我是否还认为自己是共和党人。

I think the Republican Party is a lost cause.

我认为共和党已经失败了。

I don't think the Republican party is capable of fixing itself, because the people who are most passionate about voting Republican today are the Trump voters.

我认为共和党没有能力自我修复，因为今天最热衷于投票给共和党的人是特朗普选民。

And what politician is going to want to throw those voters away to attract some unknown coalition of the future?

哪个政治家会想要抛弃这些选民来吸引未来某个未知的联盟呢？

This is the big question for all these guys- what's their party going to be after November 8?

对于所有这些人来说，这是一个大问题——11 月 8 日之后他们的聚会会怎样？

What's it going to stand for?

它代表什么？

Again, here's Rob Long.

罗布·朗再次报道。

Look, everybody I know who's in my position is just sitting there, waiting and seeing.

听着，我认识的每个处于我位置的人都只是坐在那里，观望。

We're going to sit and wait and see.

我们将坐下来观望。

December 1, we'll probably start climbing out from the smoking ruin and say, "anybody else alive around here?" It'll be like The Walking Dead, right?

12 月 1 日，我们可能会开始从冒烟的废墟中爬出来，并说：“这附近还有人活着吗？”会像《行尸走肉》一样，对吧？

We're going to try to come up with bands of people and walk across the country, and just not get ourselves killed or eaten, and hook up with people we think are not insane or horrible or in some way murderous.

我们将尝试召集一群人，步行穿越整个国家，但不要让自己被杀或被吃掉，并与我们认为不疯狂、不可怕或在某种程度上杀人的人勾结。

That's exactly what it's going to be like.

事情就是这样。

The problem for old school traditional Republicans like Rob Long and Avik Roy is that all the things that they saw as the central tenants of their party-- free trade, cut entitlements, shrink government- what they learned this election is that their fellow Republicans don't care about that stuff.

对于像罗布·朗和阿维克·罗伊这样的老派传统共和党人来说，问题在于他们认为自己政党的核心内容——自由贸易、削减福利、缩减政府——他们在这次选举中学到的是，他们的共和党同胞并不关心这些东西。

Well, lots of them don't, anyway.

好吧，无论如何，很多人都没有。

The ones who voted for Trump in the primaries, which was 45% of Republican primary votes, what those people voted for instead was "pull the drawbridge up," "close the borders," "protect American jobs." Very different from the old Republican values.

在初选中投票给特朗普的人，占共和党初选票数的45%，这些人投票的反而是“拉起吊桥”、“关闭边境”、“保护美国就业”。与旧的共和党价值观非常不同。

Rob Long says that after the election, the two sides are going to have to rethink what the party is.

罗布·朗表示，选举后，两党将不得不重新思考政党是什么。

It is going to be a fight for the soul of their party, right?

这将是一场为他们政党的灵魂而战的战斗，对吗？

Those two groups cannot occupy the party at the same time.

这两个团体不能同时占据聚会。

And does rethinking mean that it makes you think "oh, well, maybe let's get rid of the entitlement reform.

重新思考是否意味着它会让你思考“哦，好吧，也许让我们放弃权利改革吧。

Let's not argue for cutting Medicare and Social Security.

我们不要争论削减医疗保险和社会保障。

People don't like that."

人们不喜欢这样。”

Yeah, but the whole point of being Republican is that you're supposed to say things that people don't like but that are true anyway.

是的，但作为共和党人的全部意义在于，你应该说一些人们不喜欢但无论如何都是事实的话。

Like, nobody wants to put missiles in West Germany, but that's how you beat back the Soviet menace.

就像，没有人想在西德部署导弹，但这就是你击退苏联威胁的方式。

Nobody wants to say to a 35- or 30-year-old wage earner, "by the way, your retirement age is going to be 73 or 75.

没有人愿意对 35 或 30 岁的工薪阶层说：“顺便说一句，你的退休年龄将是 73 或 75 岁。

So just take care of yourself or don't.

所以要么照顾好自己，要么不照顾自己。

But in any case, you better save something." Nobody wants to say those things.

但无论如何，你最好还是留点东西吧。”没有人愿意说这些话。

Nobody really wants to be the party of that.

没有人真正愿意成为其中的一方。

Yeah.

是的。

Rob Long But that's what being a Republican means-- you're supposed to say the stuff that's true, even if nobody wants to hear it.

罗布·朗：但这就是作为一名共和党人的意义——你应该说实话，即使没有人想听。

From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.

来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。

.

。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

The fact is, this fight over what the Republican Party is going to be, it's already happening.

事实上，这场关于共和党未来走向的斗争已经在发生。

It's not waiting for the election.

这不是等待选举。

It's happening right now.

它现在正在发生。

The battlegrounds are all over the country.

战场遍布全国。

And that's what our program is about today.

这就是我们今天节目的内容。

We take you to one town.

我们带你去一个小镇。

It's one of the front lines.

这是前线之一。

Meanwhile, in Washington, like right now, the Republican leadership, well, for months Zoe's been saying that, basically, they seem to be going through the same thing the Ricochet guys are.

与此同时，在华盛顿，就像现在一样，共和党领导层，几个月来佐伊一直在说，基本上，他们似乎正在经历与弹跳人一样的事情。

They're looking at their own party and they're saying, "wait.

他们看着自己的派对，然后说：“等等。

Is that us?

那是我们吗？

Like, what's happening?"

比如，发生什么事了？”

So you look at somebody like Paul Ryan, Speaker of the House, right, or Reince Priebus, who's head of the RNC, and even somebody like John McCain.

所以你看看像众议院议长保罗·瑞安（右）或共和党全国委员会主席赖因斯·普里巴斯这样的人，甚至还有像约翰·麦凯恩这样的人。

It's like they've been fighting this battle for their ideals to run the country.

就好像他们一直在为治理国家的理想而战。

And they thought they had this big band of voters behind them.

他们认为他们有一大群选民支持。

And then, with Paul Ryan in particular, it feels like he just turned around and he's like, "oh, my god.

然后，尤其是保罗·瑞安，他感觉就像是，“哦，天哪。

Nobody's there."

那里没人。”

Right, Republican voters rejected those ideas when they voted for Trump.

是的，共和党选民在投票支持特朗普时拒绝了这些想法。

But then Ryan is still going around, trying to sell them on cutting Social Security and the kind of traditional Republican stuff, which Ryan has put together into a plan he calls "A Better Way."

但随后瑞安仍在四处走动，试图向他们推销削减社会保障和共和党传统的东西，瑞安将这些内容整合到了一个他称之为“更好的方式”的计划中。

Yeah, in this election, people don't want that.

是的，在这次选举中，人们不希望这样。

Also, at the personal level-- Ryan is this super disciplined guy who exercises, and he's careful about his diet, and he's a policy nerd, and he's polite, and he's kind of proper.

另外，在个人层面上——瑞安是一个非常自律的人，他坚持锻炼，他对饮食很谨慎，他是一个政策书呆子，他很有礼貌，而且他有点得体。

And he's watching his voters cheering this guy who's the total opposite.

他看着他的选民为这个完全相反的人欢呼。

It seems incredibly lonely for Ryan.

对于瑞安来说，这似乎非常孤独。

And it looks incredibly sad, and it looks very, very painful.

它看起来非常悲伤，看起来非常非常痛苦。

And for months, Zoe, you have been saying that these Republican leaders just seemed like tragic figures to you, like somebody should write a tragic opera.

佐伊，几个月来，你一直在说，这些共和党领导人对你来说似乎是悲剧人物，就像有人应该写一部悲剧歌剧一样。

Someone should.

有人应该。

Ira Glass As you know, because of your wish, we considered commissioning a tragic opera about Paul Ryan or Reince Priebus.

艾拉·格拉斯 如您所知，出于您的愿望，我们考虑委托制作一部关于保罗·瑞恩或赖因斯·普里巴斯的悲剧歌剧。

Mhm.

嗯。

Ira Glass And then we decided as a staff--

Ira Glass 然后我们作为员工决定——

You preferred a musical.

你更喜欢音乐剧。

A musical is more fun than an opera.

音乐剧比歌剧更有趣。

That is correct.

这是正确的。

And with that in mind, I am pleased to present now, not a musical but a song, a world premiere by Robert Lopez and Kristen Anderson-Lopez.

考虑到这一点，我很高兴现在推出罗伯特·洛佩兹和克里斯汀·安德森-洛佩兹的全球首演，这不是一部音乐剧，而是一首歌曲。

They did the songs in Frozen.

他们演唱了《冰雪奇缘》中的歌曲。

And basically we told them that Paul Ryan has all kinds of feelings that he can't express publicly right now, but they are the sort of feelings that a person might sing.

基本上我们告诉他们保罗·瑞安有各种各样的感情，他现在无法公开表达，但这些感情是一个人可以唱歌的感情。

Could they help us imagine those feelings?

他们能帮助我们想象那些感受吗？

Neil Patrick Harris sings the part of Paul Ryan.

尼尔·帕特里克·哈里斯 (Neil Patrick Harris) 饰演保罗·瑞安 (Paul Ryan)。

(SINGING) I knew some time ago you didn't want what I could give you anymore.

（唱歌）我很久以前就知道你不再想要我能给你的东西了。

I knew some time ago this was not the party that it was for us before.

我不久前就知道这不再是我们以前的聚会了。

The truth sets in but the dream persists.

真相已经浮出水面，但梦想依然存在。

I don't believe you're all white nationalists.

我不相信你们都是白人民族主义者。

It hurt to see you running to him.

看到你跑向他，我很伤心。

I hope in time you'll see right through him.

我希望你最终能看穿他。

And I'll be there when the nightmare has ended.

当噩梦结束时我会在那里。

Yes, I'll be there in the light of day.

是的，天亮我就会到那里。

Turn your back on that troll you befriended.

背弃那个与你成为朋友的巨魔。

Then come on back to me when you're ready for a better way.

当你准备好寻求更好的方法时，请回来找我。

I know he's what you want.

我知道他就是你想要的人

I know he says the things that make your passions flare.

我知道他所说的话会激发你的热情。

I know he's fun and all.

我知道他很有趣。

Maybe I'm no fun, but it's because I truly care.

也许我并不有趣，但那是因为我真的很在乎。

It's only for your sake that I endorsed.

我只是为了你才同意的。

I'm sure you could tell it was completely forced.

我相信你可以看出这完全是被迫的。

Now the guy is calling me a wussy.

现在那家伙骂我胆小鬼。

I wish I could grab him by the lapels and tell him--

我希望我能抓住他的衣领并告诉他——

I'll be there to pick up all the pieces.

我会去收拾所有的碎片。

I'll be there, no matter what they say.

无论他们说什么，我都会在那里。

Cut him loose and don't let him near your nieces.

放开他，别让他靠近你的侄女。

Then come on back to me, because you'll be ready for a better way.

然后回到我身边，因为你会准备好接受更好的方法。

Cut Medicare.

削减医疗保险。

A better way!

更好的方法！

More fossil fuels!

更多化石燃料！

A better way!

更好的方法！

Social Security privatization!

社会保障私有化！

Get the poor off welfare for good.

让穷人永远摆脱福利。

Defund Planned Parenthood.

取消对计划生育的资助。

Gay marriage, abortion, and gun control are all unconstitutional.

同性婚姻、堕胎和枪支管制都是违宪的。

Your conservative ideals, no spending tastes as good as a balanced budget feels.

你的保守理想，没有支出的感觉不如平衡预算的感觉好。

And I'll be there with policies a plenty.

我会带着很多政策去那里。

Yes, I'll be there rising above the fray.

是的，我会在那里脱颖而出。

You'll see me one fine day in 2020.

2020年美好的一天，你会见到我的。

At least, I hope you will.

至少，我希望你会。

God, I hope there's still a better way.

天哪，我希望还有更好的方法。

Neil Patrick Harris.

尼尔·帕特里克·哈里斯。

The orchestrator and music director for our song was Stephen Oremus.

我们这首歌的编曲家和音乐总监是斯蒂芬·奥雷穆斯。

Which leads us to Act 1, Party in the USA.

这就引出了第一幕，美国的派对。

One way to track the changes in the Republican Party and understand the split inside the party is to look at immigration.

追踪共和党变化并了解党内分歧的一种方法是关注移民问题。

Obviously, it was Donald Trump's biggest issue during the primaries.

显然，这是唐纳德·特朗普在初选期间最大的问题。

There was the wall.

那里有墙。

There was the ban on Muslims.

对穆斯林有禁令。

He even opposed certain forms of legal immigration, like the H-1b visa program.

他甚至反对某些形式的合法移民，例如 H-1b 签证计划。

Remember that guy, Avik Roy, the one you heard a little earlier who advised Marco Rubio and Rick Perry and Mitt Romney during their presidential campaigns?

还记得那个人，阿维克·罗伊，你之前听说过的那个人，他在马可·卢比奥、里克·佩里和米特·罗姆尼的总统竞选期间为他们提供建议吗？

Avik Roy believes that immigration is the issue that is deciding Republican presidential primaries now.

阿维克·罗伊认为，移民问题是目前决定共和党总统初选的问题。

He says that he watched two of his candidates, Rick Perry and Marco Rubio, get into situations where Republicans simply would not forgive them because of their positions on immigration.

他说，他看到他的两位候选人里克·佩里和马可·卢比奥陷入了共和党人因为他们在移民问题上的立场而根本不会原谅他们的境地。

They were seen as soft.

他们被认为是软弱的。

Rubio would get booed at grassroots events.

卢比奥在草根活动中会受到嘘声。

Perry went from being the frontrunner in the Republican primaries, back in 2011.

早在 2011 年，佩里就从共和党初选的领跑者变成了领先者。

He was far ahead of the other candidates, in fact, but got knocked out of first place after a debate on September 22 that year, where Romney attacked Perry on this issue, and Perry was booed.

事实上，他远远领先于其他候选人，但在当年 9 月 22 日的一场辩论后，罗姆尼在这个问题上攻击佩里，佩里遭到嘘声，最终被淘汰出第一名。

The crowd booed, and overnight, Rick Perry went from first to fifth in the race.

人群发出嘘声，一夜之间，里克·佩里在比赛中从第一名上升到第五名。

What was remarkable about that was that Rick Perry in every other way was a rock-ribbed conservative, on every other issue.

值得注意的是，里克·佩里在其他方面、在所有其他问题上都是坚定的保守派。

But because of that one issue, immigration, the equation flipped and the voters went with Romney over Perry.

但由于移民这一问题，情况发生了逆转，选民支持罗姆尼而不是佩里。

He was sunk.

他沉没了。

So immigration is this urgent, emotional issue for much of the Republican Party these days.

因此，对于现在的共和党大部分人来说，移民是一个紧迫且情绪化的问题。

But why?

但为什么？

The facts on the ground on this issue are not changing dramatically.

关于这个问题的事实并没有发生重大变化。

There is not a big surge of new immigrants into the country all of a sudden.

新移民并不是突然大量涌入这个国家的。

As we talked about last week on our show, illegal immigration has been flat since 2009.

正如我们上周在节目中谈到的，自 2009 年以来，非法移民数量一直持平。

Legal immigration has fallen in the last decade.

过去十年来，合法移民数量有所下降。

So why is this the issue now?

那么为什么现在会出现这个问题呢？

Why not the deficit, or the slow economic recovery, or the squeeze on the middle class, or taxes?

为什么不是赤字、缓慢的经济复苏、中产阶级的挤压或税收？

Like, why a wall?

比如，为什么要建墙？

All this year, when our producer Zoe Chace was at Trump rallies and Republican events around the country, she would ask voters why is this your issue?

今年，当我们的制片人佐伊·查斯参加特朗普集会和全国各地的共和党活动时，她会问选民为什么这是你的问题？

Did you lose your job to a foreigner?

你的工作被外国人丢了吗？

Do you live in a place that's been negatively impacted by immigrants?

您居住的地方是否受到移民的负面影响？

And people were like, no. It's hard to understand how this became the issue for so many people this year.

人们的反应是，不。很难理解今年这怎么成为这么多人的问题。

And then, in July, when Zoe was at the Republican National Convention, she met somebody.

然后，七月，当佐伊参加共和党全国代表大会时，她遇到了一个人。

And she heard about a place that gave her a better sense of why.

她听说了一个让她更好地理解原因的地方。

The person is Bobby Benson.

这个人就是鲍比·本森。

The place is Minnesota.

地点是明尼苏达州。

I first met Bobby at a barbecue at the convention, right outside the arena.

我第一次见到鲍比是在大会场外的一次烧烤会上。

He was drinking beers at a picnic table with the rest of the Minnesota delegation.

他正在野餐桌上与明尼苏达州代表团的其他成员一起喝啤酒。

And he'd brought along his best friend, Scott.

他还带来了他最好的朋友斯科特。

These two grew up together in Hugo, Minnesota.

两人在明尼苏达州雨果一起长大。

They used to have similar views but they've split recently.

他们曾经有相似的观点，但最近出现了分歧。

Scott's saying stuff that drives Bobby crazy.

斯科特说的话让鲍比抓狂。

For instance, they disagree on that thing that's splitting the party, the main plank of Trump's platform-- immigration.

例如，他们在导致党内分裂的问题上存在分歧，即特朗普政纲的主要支柱——移民。

Scott addresses the whole picnic table.

斯科特在整个野餐桌上讲话。

The wall's coming.

墙来了。

And who's going to pay for it, everybody?

大家谁来付钱呢？

Mexico!

墨西哥！

I know.

我知道。

Zoe Chace Bobby basically does a spit take.

佐伊·切斯·鲍比基本上只是吐口水。

He's anti-wall.

他是反墙的。

I guess I just believe that America is for everyone.

我想我只是相信美国适合所有人。

And the symbolism of a wall is just-- it's not me.

墙的象征意义只是——它不是我。

Scott, Bobby points out, had a wall around his house when they were kids.

鲍比指出，当他们还是孩子的时候，斯科特的房子周围有一堵墙。

So maybe that's why he loves it so much.

所以也许这就是他如此热爱它的原因。

You should have seen this guy's house growing up.

你应该亲眼目睹这家伙的房子长大的。

He had a nine-foot fence.

他有一道九英尺高的栅栏。

I'm not lying at all.

我根本没有说谎。

A nine-foot wooden fence.

九英尺高的木栅栏。

You couldn't even see between the slats.

你甚至看不到板条之间的情况。

I'm not lying at all!

我根本没有说谎！

They just wanted us to be safe and secure.

他们只是希望我们安全。

Bobby's very Minnesotan to me, what I have in my head as Minnesotan, anyway.

鲍比对我来说是个典型的明尼苏达人，无论如何，我脑子里的明尼苏达人就是这样的。

He's got this round, pleasant face.

他有一张圆圆的、令人愉快的脸。

He can't handle hot sauce or anything spicy.

他不能接受辣酱或任何辛辣的东西。

He actually says "I don't like anything with flavor." And he's really, really nice.

他实际上说“我不喜欢任何有味道的东西”。他真的非常非常好。

He doesn't like to disagree or call people out.

他不喜欢提出不同意见或叫人出去。

This has put him in a hard position lately.

这让他最近陷入了困境。

The GOP just wrote "build a wall" into its platform.

共和党刚刚在其政纲中写下了“筑墙”。

Which means Bobby's views on immigration are in no way represented at this convention.

这意味着鲍比对移民的看法在这次大会上绝没有得到体现。

It's uncomfortable for him, because he loves being a Republican, like really loves it.

这对他来说很不舒服，因为他喜欢成为一名共和党人，真的很喜欢。

He's got school spirit.

他很有学校精神。

This should be a fun party for him, but he's feeling weird about it.

这对他来说应该是一个有趣的聚会，但他却感觉很奇怪。

Bobby's friends go into the arena.

鲍比的朋友们走进竞技场。

We stay outside and watch Newt Gingrich on this huge television screen.

我们呆在外面，在巨大的电视屏幕上观看纽特·金里奇的比赛。

He's scrupulously listing all the terrorist attacks committed by Muslims over the past 37 days.

他仔细地列出了过去 37 天内穆斯林实施的所有恐怖袭击事件。

Let me refresh your memory.

让我来刷新你的记忆。

Zoe Chace And that's when Bobby spills what's bothering him.

佐伊·切斯（Zoe Chace） 就在那时，鲍比说出了困扰他的事情。

He's like, "speaking of Muslims, there is a large Somali population in St. Cloud, Minnesota," right near where Bobby lives.

他说，“说到穆斯林，明尼苏达州圣克劳德有大量索马里人”，就在鲍比住的地方附近。

And people are furious.

人们很愤怒。

It's insane up there.

上面太疯狂了

I feel so bad.

我感觉很糟糕。

He's dodging the mic at first, but then he tells me this upsetting story.

一开始他躲着麦克风，但后来他给我讲了这个令人沮丧的故事。

A few months ago, Bobby was at an Applebee's in Coon Rapids.

几个月前，鲍比在库恩拉皮兹的一家 Applebee's 餐厅。

It's like an hour away from St. Cloud.

距离圣克劳德大约一个小时的路程。

And this hate crime unfolded right in front of him.

而这起仇恨犯罪就展现在他的面前。

This woman, this-- I don't know if she was Somali-- this African woman was with two of her friends and their children, just minding their business.

这个女人，这个——我不知道她是不是索马里人——这个非洲女人和她的两个朋友以及他们的孩子在一起，只关心他们的事情。

And they happened to be speaking Somali or whatever language.

他们碰巧说的是索马里语或其他语言。

And this other white woman and her husband took offense to it and just started cursing at them in the restaurant, like "speak English," "you're awful," this, that.

另一位白人妇女和她的丈夫对此感到生气，开始在餐厅里咒骂他们，比如“说英语”、“你太糟糕了”，这个、那个。

And one thing leads to another.

一件事导致另一件事。

And the management in Applebee's, great people, they kicked the angry couple out.

Applebee's 的管理层是伟大的人，他们把这对愤怒的夫妇赶了出去。

And they're working on that.

他们正在努力解决这个问题。

And the woman has one of those big beer glasses and just sloshes it in her face.

那个女人拿着一个大啤酒杯，把它泼到了脸上。

And again, strictly because a group of people were not speaking English.

再说一次，严格来说是因为一群人不会说英语。

And then she sets her drink down.

然后她放下饮料。

They start walking out, and she picks up her drink and smashes it in the woman's face.

他们开始走出去，她拿起饮料，砸在了那个女人的脸上。

And then just pandemonium erupts.

然后混乱就爆发了。

The kids are crying.

孩子们在哭。

The African woman's face was cut up and bloody from the glass.

非洲妇女的脸被玻璃划破，血迹斑斑。

The incident made the news.

该事件成为新闻。

Lots of people heard about it and talked about it.

很多人都听说过这件事，并且议论纷纷。

What happened that night was horrifying enough, but what really started upsetting Bobby was the conversation about it afterwards.

那天晚上发生的事情已经够可怕的了，但真正让鲍比心烦意乱的是事后的谈话。

Some people around him were siding with the woman who smashed the glass, not the victim.

他周围的一些人站在打碎玻璃的女人一边，而不是受害者。

Talking to other people about it, they say simple things like "well, you know, she could have just been speaking English." And it's like, "oh, well, they could've just left well enough alone." It's like, no!

与其他人谈论这件事时，他们会说一些简单的话，例如“好吧，你知道，她可能只是在说英语。”就好像，“哦，好吧，他们本来可以不去管它的。”就像，不！

Every time I asked Bobby to explain who exactly was talking this way, Bobby would squirm in his seat and hold his breath like a kid scared to tattle tale.

每次我让鲍比解释到底是谁在这样说话，鲍比都会在座位上蠕动，屏住呼吸，就像一个害怕打小报告的孩子一样。

Like he was being disloyal.

就像他不忠诚一样。

I have to choose my words very carefully.

我必须非常小心地选择我的措辞。

A lot of them are my friends and they're like good people.

他们中的很多人都是我的朋友，他们都是好人。

I know people who-- I'm trying to think of the most-- no, well, can we pause this for a second.

我知道有些人——我正在努力想——不，好吧，我们可以暂停一下吗？

Basically, he doesn't want other Republicans in St. Cloud, Minnesota, to think he thinks they're being racist.

基本上，他不希望明尼苏达州圣克劳德的其他共和党人认为他认为他们是种族主义者。

These are his friends and family he's talking about.

他所说的这些是他的朋友和家人。

He let me start recording again.

他让我重新开始录音。

I don't know.

我不知道。

You understand where I'm at, the precarious, wanting to be-- I definitely don't want to have it out there like, "look, this is Bobby Benson saying these people are wrong." Even though they're wrong, I don't--

你明白我现在的处境，不稳定，想要成为——我绝对不想把它放在外面，“看，这是鲍比·本森说这些人错了。”即使他们错了，我也不——

And just why?

到底为什么呢？

Bobby Benson Because I want to be part of steering the party, at least at a local level, to a better place.

鲍比·本森（Bobby Benson）因为我想成为引导党（至少在地方层面）走向更好的地方的一部分。

You can't change things if you're not at the table.

如果你不在牌桌上，你就无法改变事情。

And that's what Bobby wants to do.

这就是鲍比想做的。

He wants to change things in his party.

他想改变党内的事情。

I've been looking to understand better how Republicans were dividing over this immigration stuff.

我一直在寻求更好地了解共和党人在移民问题上的分歧。

And here were Bobby and Scott and this whole city of Republicans who used to mostly agree on stuff.

这里是鲍比和斯科特，以及整个城市的共和党人，他们过去在一些事情上大多达成一致。

And now these Republicans have ended up on opposite sides of a wall.

现在这些共和党人最终站在了墙的两侧。

Bobby told me he started freaking out about this exactly one year ago.

鲍比告诉我，他在一年前就开始对此感到害怕。

It was in July of 2015 at a town hall meeting in St. Cloud.

那是 2015 年 7 月在圣克劳德举行的一次市政厅会议。

And I wish all of you guys would give him a big hand here at Aces.

我希望你们所有人都能在 Aces 大力支持他。

This is Bobby's local congressman, Tom Emmer.

这是鲍比的当地国会议员汤姆·埃默。

They're at the Aces Bar in downtown St. Cloud.

他们在圣克劳德市中心的 Aces 酒吧。

The room is packed.

房间里挤满了人。

People are squished in around the bar.

人们挤在酒吧周围。

This is one of many town halls Emmer does regularly all over the district.

这是埃默在该地区定期举办的众多市政厅之一。

And it's going normally, a little awkwardly, till this guy says "I think most of us are here to find out how you feel about assimilation of immigrants." Assimilation of immigrants.

一切都很正常，有点尴尬，直到这个人说“我想我们大多数人来这里都是为了了解你对移民同化的感受。”移民同化。

The congressman is confused, so the questioner clarifies.

国会议员很困惑，所以提问者澄清了。

We did not ask for those Somalis.

我们没有要求那些索马里人。

Nobody asked us if we, in St. Cloud, want those Somalis.

没有人问我们圣克劳德是否想要那些索马里人。

And we understand that social groups, like the Lutheran social service and the Catholic charities, they're dumping them in areas like St. Cloud.

我们了解到，像路德教会社会服务机构和天主教慈善机构这样的社会团体正在将它们倾销到圣克劳德等地区。

OK, and so the question is, how many more are coming?

好的，那么问题是，还有多少人会来？

We didn't ask for these people.

我们没有要求这些人。

Everybody that you read about is talking about this.

你读到的每个人都在谈论这个。

So that is a main issue in this city.

所以这是这个城市的一个主要问题。

There is no control.

没有控制。

The people have no control over any immigration.

人民无法控制任何移民。

The mayor doesn't.

市长不这么认为。

I don't know.

我不知道。

Congressman Emmer is like, what are you even talking about it?

埃默议员说，你到底在说什么？

If someone's here legally, you don't get a say in whether they come into your city.

如果某人合法居留，您就无权决定他们是否进入您的城市。

And he fires a warning shot at the implicit racism here against Somalis, as if to say "don't go further down this road, you guys."

他对这里针对索马里人的隐性种族主义发出了警告，仿佛在说“你们不要在这条路上走得更远。”

And if you're asking me how I feel about immigrant populations who are in this country legally, and who are actually trying to find a better way for themselves and their families, I support it wholeheartedly.

如果你问我对合法居住在这个国家的移民群体有何感想，并且他们实际上正在努力为自己和家人找到更好的出路，我会全心全意地支持。

I mean, the Germans had the same problem when they came over.

我的意思是，德国人过来时也遇到了同样的问题。

The Polish had the problem.

波兰人有这个问题。

The Chinese had the problem.

中国人有这个问题。

We have a different problem.

我们有一个不同的问题。

They didn't come to subvert the Constitution.

他们不是来颠覆宪法的。

You're not addressing the idea that they're not being assimilated.

你并没有讨论他们没有被同化的想法。

The other--

另一个——

I'm going to tell you, the Somalis, according to the measurements that have been used over time, are some of the fastest-assimilating populations that we've had.

我要告诉你，根据长期以来的测量，索马里人是我们所拥有的同化速度最快的人群之一。

[GROANING] Man Oh, you gotta be kidding me.

[呻吟] 哦，你一定是在跟我开玩笑吧。

I hear all the time the word "assimilation." I feel myself assimilated.

我一直听到“同化”这个词。我感觉自己被同化了。

I speak English.

我说英语。

I have a job.

我有工作。

I have a family.

我有一个家庭。

I drive the same streets every day, just like you.

我每天都在同一条街上开车，就像你一样。

What's the thing that's missing?

缺少什么东西？

You should not be afraid of Muslims here.

你不应该害怕这里的穆斯林。

If you guys have any questions, anything to talk about, come to us.

如果你们有任何问题、有什么要讨论的，请来找我们。

We'll answer all your questions.

我们将回答您的所有问题。

We will address your fears.

我们将解决您的恐惧。

But I don't think there's nothing we have to fear in America.

但我认为在美国我们没有什么值得害怕的。

Some people in the room don't buy it.

房间里有些人不买账。

They push back and demand a vote on refugees.

他们反击并要求对难民进行投票。

Emmer pushes back too.

埃默尔也进行了反击。

I'm going to say it out loud-- when you move to a community, as long as you are here legally, I am very sorry but you don't get to slam the gate behind you and tell nobody else that they're welcome.

我要大声说出来——当你搬到一个社区时，只要你是合法的，我很抱歉，但你不能关上大门，告诉任何人他们是欢迎的。

That's not the way this country works.

这不是这个国家的运作方式。

And if we're going to talk about--

如果我们要谈论——

I didn't think it was a problem until somebody I knew really well, because they got upset--

我不认为这是一个问题，直到有一个我非常熟悉的人出现，因为他们感到不安——

This is Tom Emmer talking about that night.

这是汤姆·埃默谈论那天晚上的事。

They said "it sounds like you're telling us.

他们说：“听起来你是在告诉我们。

You're not listening to us."

你根本不听我们说话。”

We also work hard, and we also pay our taxes.

我们也努力工作，我们也纳税。

And we also have kids to raise and go to school.

我们还有孩子要抚养和上学。

And there's a huge economic burden placed on us now.

现在我们承受着巨大的经济负担。

And I think part of the fear-- some of you talked about our fear-- is that we don't feel in control of what's happening in our city.

我认为部分恐惧——你们中的一些人谈到了我们的恐惧——是我们感觉无法控制我们城市正在发生的事情。

It is out of our control.

这是我们无法控制的。

Where is our say on what happens to our schools?

对于我们学校发生的事情，我们的发言权在哪里？

I don't know that you've heard us.

我不知道你有没有听到我们的声音。

I feel you told us.

我感觉你告诉我们了。

And I thought I had been listening all night.

我以为我已经听了一整晚了。

So I stopped, because then I thought, "this is a problem, because this person is not that way."

所以我停了下来，因为那时我想，“这是一个问题，因为这个人不是那样的。”

Say what you mean, "this person is not that way." What does that mean?

说出你的意思，“这个人不是那样的。”这意味着什么？

They're reasonable.

他们是有道理的。

They listen.

他们听。

They're compassionate.

他们很有同情心。

They have definite, strong views, right?

他们有明确的、强烈的观点，对吧？

Their views are much like mine.

他们的观点很像我的。

I've known them for a long time.

我认识他们很久了。

And this person was clearly frustrated, so I stopped.

这个人显然很沮丧，所以我停了下来。

And I said, "I apologize.

我说：“我道歉。

What is it that you would like your congressman to do?"

您希望您的国会议员做什么？”

You're our only chance.

你是我们唯一的机会。

Tom Emmer For what, Sue?

汤姆·艾默 苏，为了什么？

What is it that you want?

你想要什么？

OK, Tom Emmer What is it that want from me?

好吧，汤姆·埃默，你想从我这里得到什么？

I think I speak for a lot of people.

我想我代表了很多人。

I think the city of St. Cloud needs a breather.

我认为圣克劳德市需要喘口气。

And we need to assimilate with the people that are--

我们需要与这些人同化——

What does that mean?

这意味着什么？

What does that mean?

这意味着什么？

It's a break on the influx for a period of time, so we could take a little breather.

这是一段时间内人流中断的时期，所以我们可以喘口气。

Here's the thing, your last statement, though, "take a little breather."

事情是这样的，你的最后一句话是：“喘口气。”

[SCATTERED APPLAUSE] You guys, could you just hold on.

[零散的掌声] 你们能坚持一下吗？

Say it out loud.

大声说出来。

Are you suggesting that no more immigrants should be allowed to come to St. Cloud?

您是否建议不再允许移民来到圣克劳德？

For the whole United States!

为了整个美国！

Man The whole United States, yes.

伙计，整个美国，是的。

All right.

好的。

All right, here's the thing.

好吧，事情就是这样。

All I can do is respond as open and honest as I can, Sue.

我所能做的就是尽可能开诚布公地回应，苏。

That's not something that I can do.

那不是我能做的事。

That's not something that our constitution says that we do with people who are--

我们的宪法并没有规定我们应该对这样的人做这样的事情——

That was the first time that I think I realized that even good people, really good people, because I know this person.

那是我第一次意识到，即使是好人，真正的好人，因为我认识这个人。

This person is not a xenophobe, not a racist.

这个人不是仇外者，也不是种族主义者。

I know this person for several years.

我认识这个人好几年了。

This was a big moment for Tom Emmer.

对于汤姆·埃默来说，这是一个重要时刻。

This is when he understood two surprising things.

这时他明白了两件令人惊讶的事情。

First, his voters want a ban on Muslims.

首先，他的选民希望禁止穆斯林。

They want no more Somali immigrants coming to their town.

他们不希望更多的索马里移民来到他们的城镇。

And second, the voters who want this, they aren't fringe weirdos.

其次，想要这样做的选民并不是边缘怪人。

These are people he knows, and likes, and respects.

这些都是他认识、喜欢和尊重的人。

Some background here.

这里有一些背景。

There are a lot more Somalis in town than there used to be, over a short period of time.

在很短的时间内，镇上的索马里人比以前多了很多。

15 years ago, there were only a handful of Somali residents in St. Cloud.

15年前，圣克劳德只有少数索马里居民。

Now there are approximately 10,000, about 5% of the St. Cloud metro population, which is 190,000.

现在大约有 10,000 人，约占圣克劳德都会区人口 190,000 的 5%。

But still, almost 90% of St. Cloud is white, majority Catholic or Lutheran.

尽管如此，圣克劳德仍然有近 90% 的人是白人，其中大多数是天主教徒或路德教徒。

It was and still is, relatively speaking, a monolithic place.

相对而言，它过去是、现在仍然是一个整体性的地方。

People up there are always saying this thing.

楼上的人总是这么说。

"Yeah, this place used to be called White Cloud, because it was so white." A place that was closed off and suspicious of outsiders.

“是啊，这个地方以前叫白云，因为它太白了。”一个封闭的地方，对外来者持怀疑态度。

Now there's this whole big new group of Somalis there too.

现在那里也有一大群新的索马里人。

The reason Somalis came to St. Cloud is because there was civil war and famine in Somalia 25 years ago, which forced people into refugee camps, mostly in Kenya.

索马里人之所以来到圣克劳德，是因为25年前索马里发生内战和饥荒，迫使人们进入难民营，其中大部分在肯尼亚。

The US government contracts with different non-profits that specialize in refugee resettlement.

美国政府与专门从事难民安置的不同非营利组织签订了合同。

One of those is based in St. Paul, with an office in St. Cloud.

其中之一位于圣保罗，在圣克劳德设有办事处。

And so a lot of the refugees end up in towns and cities in Minnesota after years spent in a camp.

因此，许多难民在难民营度过多年后最终来到了明尼苏达州的城镇。

The Aces Bar town hall back in 2015 felt like a dress rehearsal of the anti-immigration feelings that fuel the Trump campaign.

2015 年的 Aces Bar 市政厅感觉就像是特朗普竞选活动中反移民情绪的彩排。

They were calling for the Muslim ban before he was.

他们在他之前就呼吁禁止穆斯林。

It was hard at first to get the long time residents of St. Cloud to talk about when did they first start to resent the growing population of Somalis in their town.

一开始很难让圣克劳德的长期居民谈论他们什么时候开始对镇上不断增长的索马里人感到不满。

It's a sensitive and awkward thing to confess.

坦白是一件敏感而尴尬的事情。

Some people hung up on me.

有些人挂断了我的电话。

I was thrown out of a meeting.

我被赶出了会议。

I finally got some answers from Carol Rupar, head of the County Republican Party.

我终于从县共和党领袖卡罗尔·鲁帕尔那里得到了一些答案。

She kindly did some research, printed out some old emails, and marched into Caribou Coffee with a stack of papers for our interview.

她好心地做了一些研究，打印了一些旧电子邮件，然后带着一叠文件走进 Caribou 咖啡厅接受我们的采访。

She had a time line.

她有一个时间线。

OK, well, I looked back at the first information that I had where this started.

好吧，我回顾了我从这件事开始时获得的第一个信息。

And I wrote down some thoughts on that.

我写下了一些对此的想法。

According to Carol, it started in 2013, when the Islamic Center of St. Cloud tried to build this mosque/community center on Clearwater Road.

据卡罗尔介绍，这个项目始于2013年，当时圣克劳德伊斯兰中心试图在克利尔沃特路建造这座清真寺/社区中心。

This would be the fourth mosque in town, but the location was pretty controversial.

这将是镇上的第四座清真寺，但其位置颇有争议。

It was a residential area, and that if they were going to build this big complex, that was going to change the whole-- I mean, there's a lot of traffic on Clearwater Road.

那是一个住宅区，如果他们要建造这个大型综合体，那将会改变整个——我的意思是，克利尔沃特路上有很多交通。

Carol says she was not involved in opposing the mosque.

卡罗尔说她没有参与反对清真寺。

She just knew some people who were.

她只认识一些人。

And those people formed a little group.

那些人组成了一个小团体。

They started calling themselves St. Cloud Citizens for Reasonable Zoning.

他们开始称自己为合理分区圣克劳德公民。

And their complaints about it were, in part, all the normal things you hear in a zoning hearing-- traffic, congestion, "when I bought my house I didn't know about or want this kind of thing."

他们对此的抱怨在某种程度上是你在分区听证会上听到的所有正常的事情——交通、拥堵，“当我买房子时，我不知道也不想要这种事情。”

When the time came for the hearing, 300-odd people showed up at the city council meeting.

听证会时间到了，300多人出席了市议会会议。

It was a contentious night.

这是一个充满争议的夜晚。

Lots of Somalis and non-Somalis showed up, with big signs for and against.

许多索马里人和非索马里人都出现了，并举着支持和反对的大牌。

Please try to remember that the religion of this group is not the issue tonight.

请记住，今晚这个群体的宗教不是问题。

Mr. President.

总统先生。

Moderator Sit down, please.

主持人请坐。

Your statement-- Moderator If you would like to get in line, get in line.

您的发言——主持人 如果您想排队，就排队。

There's people waiting to speak.

已经有人在等着说话了。

The whole meeting was bitter enough that by the end of the night, the Islamic Center had withdrawn its proposal.

整个会议的气氛十分激烈，以至于到了晚上，伊斯兰中心撤回了其提案。

In fact, they said they could find a better place for it.

事实上，他们说他们可以找到一个更好的地方。

They did, and it exists today.

他们做到了，并且今天仍然存在。

Out of this organizing against the mosque, some people in this group decided to keep meeting.

在这次针对清真寺的组织活动中，该组织中的一些人决定继续聚会。

It was like after being in that room together and actually getting what they wanted, they realized, "oh, lots of us feel this way.

就像一起在那个房间里并真正得到他们想要的东西后，他们意识到，“哦，我们很多人都有这种感觉。

We should stick together." St. Cloud Citizens for Reasonable Zoning morphed into another group-- Peace in St. Cloud.

我们应该团结在一起。”圣克劳德合理分区公民组织演变成了另一个组织——圣克劳德和平组织。

And it was in July of 2015 when the situation started ramping up, according to what I could come up with.

据我所知，从 2015 年 7 月起，情况开始恶化。

Yeah.

是的。

Carol And the residents in the area were feeling intimidated by the behavior.

卡罗尔和该地区的居民都对这种行为感到害怕。

One quiet Sunday afternoon, there were a group of Somali women they described as a mini parade.

一个安静的周日下午，一群索马里妇女参加了小型游行。

On three occasions that afternoon, just parading through, making loud noises, taking pictures, and so that some of the little old ladies in the area got intimidated by that.

那天下午有三次，只是游行穿过，大声喧哗，拍照，让该地区的一些小老太太被吓到了。

I tried to run this down.

我试图把这件事办下来。

It seems like it might have just been a handful of people out for a walk.

看起来可能只是几个人出去散步。

People in the group were noting all sorts of situations where suddenly they, white people, were in the minority.

小组中的人们注意到各种各样的情况，突然间他们，白人，成为了少数。

And they didn't like it.

他们不喜欢它。

White kids were outnumbered by Somali kids in music class, four or five to one.

音乐课上白人孩子的数量比索马里孩子多，比例为四比五。

Someone in the group actually counted them up.

组里有人还真数了数。

Someone in the group described going by Schmidt Park and seeing 20 to 30 Somali boys on the basketball court, mothers and kids, and quote, "no white people." This person wrote, "the entire area looked and felt taken over.

该团体中的某人描述了他经过施密特公园时看到篮球场上有 20 到 30 名索马里男孩、母亲和孩子，并引用了“没有白人”的话。这位人士写道：“整个地区看上去、感觉都被占领了。

It was eerie."

这太诡异了。”

They also found-- one gentleman found some Somali boys in his garage and going into neighbor's garages.

他们还发现——一位绅士在他的车库里发现了一些索马里男孩，并进入了邻居的车库。

And so that did not sit well.

所以这不太好。

So that's when they called a neighborhood discussion, from what I understand.

据我所知，就在那时他们召开了邻里讨论。

OK, and they said look, "you know, there's an awful lot of these people here.

好吧，他们说看，“你知道，这里有很多这样的人。

We need to get together and do something.

我们需要团结起来做点什么。

We feel that our neighborhood is being taken over."

我们感觉我们的社区正在被接管。”

Carol and most people I talked to insist this is not about race.

卡罗尔和我交谈过的大多数人都坚称这与种族无关。

I heard this over and over.

我一遍又一遍地听到这句话。

"It's not about race." They say it's about money.

“这与种族无关。”他们说这是钱的问题。

How much are the refugees costing taxpayers?

难民花费了纳税人多少钱？

What's the drain on our county and on our school?

我们县和我们学校的流失是什么？

That was the issue the group Peace in St. Cloud got organized around.

这就是“圣克劳德和平”组织围绕的问题。

Can we see an audit of how much is being spent on these Somalis?

我们能否审计一下在这些索马里人身上花费了多少钱？

I feel that they are reasonable people with legitimate concerns.

我觉得他们是有道理的人，有合理的担忧。

And they have a right to find out what this is costing.

他们有权了解这要花多少钱。

They have a right to find out how this works, because they just do.

他们有权了解这是如何运作的，因为他们就是这么做的。

And what I got from it is that people felt they had no say in this, that here this whole group of people from a different culture descends on the town and it's changed forever.

我从中得到的是，人们觉得他们对此没有发言权，这群来自不同文化的人来到了这个小镇，它永远改变了。

And Governor Dayton has made the comment at least four times that, "Well, if you don't like it, you can leave." Well, no. I wouldn't leave.

代顿州长至少四次发表过这样的评论：“好吧，如果你不喜欢它，你可以离开。”嗯，不。我不会离开。

That same month as the intimidation parade and the basketball court was the town hall, where they asked their congressman, Tom Emmer, for a ban on Muslims moving to St. Cloud, and he told them, "No, that's un-American." Soon enough, someone stepped forward saying, "No, no, no. That's perfectly American." This local opinion writer for The St. Cloud Times, a woman named AJ Kern, started going around, talking to Republican groups, gearing up to run for Congress to challenge Tom Emmer over this issue.

同一个月，在市政厅举行恐吓游行和篮球场，他们要求国会议员汤姆·埃默禁止穆斯林搬到圣克劳德，他告诉他们，“不，那是不美国的。”很快，有人上前说：“不，不，不。那是完全美国式的。” 《圣克劳德时报》的一位当地观点撰稿人，一位名叫 AJ Kern 的女性，开始四处走动，与共和党团体交谈，准备竞选国会议员，在这个问题上挑战汤姆·埃默。

She starts calling for a moratorium on refugees coming to Minnesota and to the US.

她开始呼吁暂停难民前往明尼苏达州和美国。

AJ Kern spent time in Iran in the '70s, and she wrote some opinion pieces about how potentially dangerous Muslims can be.

AJ Kern 于 70 年代在伊朗呆过一段时间，她写了一些关于穆斯林潜在危险性的评论文章。

The Peace in St. Cloud group asked her to speak with them about life in Muslim countries.

圣克劳德和平组织邀请她与他们谈论穆斯林国家的生活。

Kern officially announced her candidacy in February of 2016.

科恩于2016年2月正式宣布参选。

In her speeches, she talked about the terrorist attacks happening in France and Belgium, the one in San Bernardino, the Syrian migrant crisis.

她在演讲中谈到了法国和比利时发生的恐怖袭击、圣贝纳迪诺的恐怖袭击、叙利亚移民危机。

She warned there is no way for the US or foreign governments to vet which refugee might be a terrorist.

她警告说，美国或外国政府无法审查哪些难民可能是恐怖分子。

If there's no government office in Syria, with a computer in some corner office that has a database to say who each Muhammad is-- was there one in Somalia?

如果叙利亚没有政府办公室，某个角落办公室里有一台计算机，有一个数据库可以显示每个穆罕默德是谁——那么索马里也有这样的政府办公室吗？

It's the same war-torn terrorist hotbed country.

这也是一个饱受战争蹂躏的恐怖分子温床国家。

That's from her announcement speech at the Pickled Loon, a bar in downtown St. Cloud.

这是她在圣克劳德市中心的 Pickled Loon 酒吧发表的演讲。

Bobby, my Minnesota Republican worrier from the convention, he went to some of her events, and they disturbed him.

鲍比是我在大会上为明尼苏达州共和党担心的人，他参加了她的一些活动，这些活动打扰了他。

She told this imaginary story to everyone.

她把这个想象中的故事告诉了大家。

And it was just-- it was an older crowd.

这只是——这是一群年纪较大的人群。

And so it was "imagine your granddaughter comes home now one day from school, and she says, 'Grandma, I'm in love with my new boyfriend.

所以“想象一下，有一天你的孙女放学回家，她说，‘奶奶，我爱上了我的新男朋友。

He's right here.

他就在这里。

He's little Muhammad.'" And I immediately start like-- But then she went on, saying, "well, what happens if they fall in love and they get married?

他是小穆罕默德。’”我立刻开始想——但她接着说，“好吧，如果他们坠入爱河并结婚会怎样？

Are they going to have a Christian wedding or are they going to have a Muslim wedding?" And the people there were like, "oh my god, what kind of wedding would they have?" And then she just took it up a notch and said, "what happens when little Muhammad and your granddaughter have children of their own?

他们要举行基督教婚礼还是穆斯林婚礼？”那里的人们就想，“天哪，他们会举办什么样的婚礼？”然后她更进一步说：“当小穆罕默德和你的孙女有了自己的孩子时会发生什么？

And they're Muslim now, and so Muslims-- genital mutilation is part of their culture.

他们现在是穆斯林了，所以穆斯林——切割生殖器是他们文化的一部分。

And so what are you going to do when little Muhammad wants to do that to your great-grandchildren?"

那么，当小穆罕默德想对你的曾孙这样做时，你会怎么做呢？”

And not all of the group, but when some of the groups were like, oh my gosh, I don't know what I'll do.

并不是所有的人，但是当有些人说，天哪，我不知道我会做什么。

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

感谢您让我注意到这一点。

That's when I was like, wow, this is an issue.

那时我就​​想，哇，这是一个问题。

This line of thinking is an issue.

这个思路是有问题的。

Kern ended up losing the sixth district congressional race to Tom Emmer.

科恩最终在第六次选区国会竞选中输给了汤姆·埃默。

It wasn't even close.

甚至还差得很远。

But in Stearns County, where most of St. Cloud is, she won by 77 votes.

但在圣克劳德大部分地区所在的斯特恩斯县，她以 77 票获胜。

That's about as big a divide as you can get between two Republican candidates.

这大概是两位共和党候选人之间最大的分歧了。

About 3,500 people voted.

大约有 3,500 人投票。

Carol Rupar, head of the Republican Party in St. Cloud, the one who met with me in Caribou Coffee and told me about the mosque, she did not vote for AJ Kern in the primary.

圣克劳德共和党领袖卡罗尔·鲁帕尔（Carol Rupar）在驯鹿咖啡厅与我会面并向我介绍了这座清真寺，她在初选中没有投票给 AJ Kern。

But she thinks she understands what Kern's supporters were drawn to.

但她认为她理解科恩的支持者被什么吸引。

They're anxious about things changing too fast.

他们对事情变化太快感到焦虑。

Carol feels the same way.

卡罗尔也有同样的感觉。

She's lived in this area all her life.

她一生都住在这个地区。

She grew up on a farm.

她在农场长大。

Today, she's a realtor.

今天，她是一名房地产经纪人。

And she does this thing.

她做了这件事。

When she wants to say something even slightly controversial, she does this grimace.

当她想说一些哪怕是稍微有争议的话时，她都会做这个鬼脸。

Like, "hmm, I don't know, but maybe." That's the face she gives me when she tells me this story to explain what motivates the Peace in St. Cloud group.

就像，“嗯，我不知道，但也许吧。”当她向我讲述这个故事并解释圣克劳德和平团体的动机时，她就是这样的表情。

Well, and I had a little granddaughter-- have a little granddaughter.

嗯，我有一个小孙女——有一个小孙女。

When she was three, she was at Crossroads.

当她三岁的时候，她正处于十字路口。

And there's that little play area.

还有那个小游乐区。

And her mother and a friend were chatting, and they let the kids play in this area.

她的妈妈和一个朋友正在聊天，他们让孩子们在这个区域玩耍。

And so my little granddaughter-- and she's a blue-eyed blonde.

我的小孙女——她是一个蓝眼睛的金发女郎。

And she was about three.

她大约三岁。

And so this little boy was talking to her, and nice.

这个小男孩正在和她说话，而且很友善。

So no problem.

所以没问题。

He was a little Somali boy.

他是一个索马里小男孩。

All of a sudden, he grabbed her around the neck and shoved her head into the wall.

突然，他掐住了她的脖子，把她的头按到了墙上。

And she had a lump on the side of her head, like you took a baseball or a softball and cut it in half.

她的头一侧有一个肿块，就像你把棒球或垒球切成两半一样。

She had this lump on the side of her head.

她的头一侧有一个肿块。

She had to go to the emergency room.

她必须去急诊室。

But that's behavior that we haven't seen.

但这是我们还没有看到的行为。

That felt new to you, even though those are three-year-olds, right?

即使那是三岁的孩子，这对你来说还是很新鲜，对吧？

Right, I know.

对，我知道。

But she was told that-- well, this little boy was probably four or five, but that is not normal behavior that a child would do, that it's learned behavior.

但她被告知——嗯，这个小男孩可能有四五岁，但这不是孩子会做的正常行为，这是习得的行为。

I don't know if it is or not.

我不知道是不是。

So now, after that, that was the end.

所以现在，在那之后，那就结束了。

They were never allowed to go back.

他们永远不被允许回去。

She never let them play in that play area again.

她再也没有让他们在那个游乐区玩耍。

You're worried.

你很担心。

You're worried that things are changing.

你担心事情正在发生变化。

Yeah, so I think that's it.

是的，所以我想就是这样。

When people see things that are not what they're used to, that's scary.

当人们看到不习惯的事物时，就会感到害怕。

I think the Peace in St. Cloud group is trying very hard.

我认为圣克劳德和平团体正在非常努力。

They want peace in here, in St. Cloud, but don't run over us.

他们想要这里的和平，在圣克劳德，但不要碾压我们。

We're here, and we like it the way it is.

我们在这里，我们喜欢它现在的样子。

So don't change it.

所以不要改变它。

Of course, there were other ways for her to think about this incident at the mall.

当然，对于商场里的这件事，她还有其他的思考方式。

Like, this kid is emotionally disturbed.

比如说，这孩子精神有问题。

He had a bad day.

他今天过得很糟糕。

There's something upsetting at home.

家里有什么不开心的事情。

Kids just hit each other sometimes.

孩子们有时会互相殴打。

She could have concluded any of those things rather than "we're being run over by Muslim immigrants who behave differently than we do." One reason that's where she went was that this was the explanation that was emerging all around her.

她本可以得出这样的结论，而不是“我们正在被行为与我们不同的穆斯林移民碾压”。她去那里的原因之一是这是她周围出现的解释。

People were talking about Muslim immigrants at meetings, on her e-mail, on Facebook, and at talks that were popping up in the area.

人们在会议上、在她的电子邮件上、在 Facebook 上以及在该地区突然出现的会谈中谈论穆斯林移民。

This was another new development in St. Cloud.

这是圣克劳德的又一新发展。

Central Minnesota was becoming a place where speakers were coming, speakers who spread the word about their perceived threat of Muslim immigration.

明尼苏达州中部正在成为一个演讲者蜂拥而至的地方，这些演讲者传播他们所感知的穆斯林移民威胁的信息。

Three years ago, 2013, Carol had gone to one of these talks in Little Falls, just outside St. Cloud.

三年前，即 2013 年，卡罗尔参加了在圣克劳德郊外小瀑布举行的一场演讲。

It was sponsored by the Central Minnesota Tea Party.

它是由明尼苏达州中部茶党赞助的。

She even bought the book written by the speaker, Brigitte Gabriel.

她甚至买了演讲者布丽吉特·加布里埃尔（Brigitte Gabriel）写的书。

It's called Because They Hate.

这就是所谓的“因为他们讨厌”。

She has not read all of it.

她还没有读完全部内容。

Zoe Chace.

佐伊·查斯。

Coming up, Zoe goes to one of those meetings, where they talk about Muslim immigrants, and she meets an elected official who believes that Sharia law has already taken over American cities.

接下来，佐伊参加了其中一次会议，他们在会上讨论了穆斯林移民，她会见了一位民选官员，他认为伊斯兰教法已经占领了美国城市。

That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.

稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。

It's This American Life.

这就是美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Today's program, Will I Know Anyone at This Party?

今天的节目，我在这个聚会上认识任何人吗？

So if you're just tuning in, we've been talking about how the Republican party is changing this year.

如果您刚刚收看，我们一直在谈论共和党今年的变化。

Lots of Republican voters apparently are not so excited about the old Republican stuff, like shrinking the size of government and having free trade.

许多共和党选民显然对共和党的旧政策并不那么兴奋，比如缩小政府规模和自由贸易。

Instead, this year, they are excited about cracking down on immigration.

相反，今年他们对打击移民感到兴奋。

Zoe Chace is doing a story about St. Cloud, Minnesota, which is one of the front lines of this conflict in the party.

佐伊·查斯正在做一个关于明尼苏达州圣克劳德的故事，那里是党内冲突的前线之一。

In her reporting, Zoe went to a talk-- they have lots of talks like this out there-- about the dangers of Muslim immigration to the United States.

在她的报道中，佐伊参加了一场关于穆斯林移民到美国的危险的演讲——他们有很多这样的演讲。

We pick up her story from there.

我们从那里开始讲述她的故事。

One of the repeat speakers on the circuit is a local guy named Ron Branstner.

巡回演出中的重复演讲者之一是一位名叫罗恩·布兰斯特纳的当地人。

First off, what we want to do is we want to stand up.

首先，我们要做的就是站起来。

We always say the Pledge of Allegiance.

我们总是说效忠誓言。

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

我宣誓效忠美利坚合众国国旗。

Ron Branstner, he's kind of bumbling and informal, but he does not hesitate to get up in front of a crowd and claim his authority on how immigration works.

罗恩·布兰斯特纳（Ron Branstner）虽然有点笨手笨脚、不拘小节，但他会毫不犹豫地在人群面前站起来，声称自己在移民运作方面拥有权威。

There is a movement that is going throughout the United States to try to change our culture, try to change who we are.

一场运动正在席卷美国，试图改变我们的文化，试图改变我们是谁。

He spent time in California, where he volunteered as a Minuteman along the US-Mexico border to help spot people crossing illegally.

他在加利福尼亚州度过了一段时光，在那里他自愿担任美墨边境的民兵，帮助发现非法越境的人。

He lives in the St. Cloud area.

他住在圣克劳德地区。

He has a super regular job in which he deals with the public, so doesn't want me to say what that is.

他有一份与公众打交道的超级常规工作，所以不想让我透露那是什么。

He's become a sort of traveling prophet.

他已经成为一位旅行先知。

He warns about the bad things that will happen to your town when the new group of immigrants come.

他警告说，当新移民到来时，你的城镇将会发生不好的事情。

He used to do these presentations about Mexicans, but as immigration from Latin America slowed and refugee resettlement increased in Minnesota, it seems he picked up a Quran and swapped out Mexicans for Muslims.

他曾经做过有关墨西哥人的演讲，但随着拉丁美洲移民的放缓和明尼苏达州难民安置的增加，他似乎拿起了一本《古兰经》，用穆斯林取代了墨西哥人。

I saw him in person at a meeting in Aberdeen, South Dakota, which isn't far from the Minnesota border.

我在南达科他州阿伯丁举行的一次会议上亲眼见过他，那里距离明尼苏达州边境不远。

So what you see now and what you see five years from now, you're not going to recognize the state.

所以你现在所看到的以及五年后所看到的，你都不会认识到这个国家。

Ron Branstner is where a lot of the members of the Peace in St. Cloud group get their ideas.

罗恩·布兰斯特纳 (Ron Branstner) 是圣克劳德和平组织的许多成员获得想法的地方。

He has a lot of theories, a lot of slides.

他有很多理论，很多幻灯片。

I'm going to sum up those theories in three parts.

我将分三个部分总结这些理论。

One, refugees are costing you money.

第一，难民会让你花钱。

Branstner is very specific about this.

布兰斯特纳对此非常具体。

It's costing taxpayers $14,000 per immigrant.

每个移民要花费纳税人 14,000 美元。

You are not contributing to the United States at all.

你根本没有为美国做出任何贡献。

You are a welfare case.

你是一个福利案例。

Two, nonprofits are getting rich off bringing refugees into Minnesota.

第二，非营利组织通过将难民引入明尼苏达州而致富。

This is something I heard from a lot of people.

这是我从很多人那里听到的。

I also heard repeatedly that there is no transparency, no audit, no one has any idea how they're tax money is spent by non-profits on refugees.

我还多次听说，没有透明度，没有审计，没有人知道非营利组织如何将税款花在难民身上。

And it's a moneymaker beyond anything.

而且它是超越一切的赚钱工具。

It's the largest industry, probably, in the world, moneywise.

从资金角度来看，这可能是世界上最大的行业。

Three, and this is the one that really riles people up, as soon as enough Muslim refugees get to your town, they will institute Sharia law as the law of the land.

第三，这是真正激怒人们的一点，一旦有足够多的穆斯林难民到达你的城镇，他们就会制定伊斯兰教法作为这片土地的法律。

Sharia is Islamic religious law as derived from the Quran and other religious texts and scholarship.

伊斯兰教法是源自《古兰经》和其他宗教文献和学术成果的伊斯兰宗教法。

It's not an all spelled out thing, like the Ten Commandments.

它不像《十诫》那样有详细的说明。

Branstner says women will become second-class citizens, non-believers will be killed.

布兰斯特纳说，女性将成为二等公民，非信徒将被杀害。

Basically, Central Minnesota becomes part of the caliphate.

基本上，明尼苏达州中部成为哈里发国的一部分。

Because they did a study and a large percentage of the new immigrants in this country want Sharia law.

因为他们做了一项研究，这个国家很大一部分新移民想要伊斯兰教法。

I studied the Quran every day for two hours.

我每天学习《古兰经》两个小时。

I know the Quran.

我知道《古兰经》。

I know Islam.

我了解伊斯兰教。

Sharia law does not believe in man-made laws.

伊斯兰教法不相信人为法律。

It's against the religion.

这是反对宗教的。

All laws come from their god.

所有的法律都来自他们的神。

If you go outside of their laws in Sharia, you will be considered apostate and you will die.

如果你违反了他们的伊斯兰教法，你将被视为叛教者，并且会被处死。

Ron concludes his talk by explaining Hillary Clinton has taken an oath that she will punish anyone who speaks ill of Islam when she is president.

罗恩在结束演讲时解释说，希拉里·克林顿已宣誓，当她担任总统时，她将惩罚任何诽谤伊斯兰教的人。

I want to thank Aberdeen for everything!

我要感谢阿伯丁所做的一切！

OK, this presentation seems to be pretty effective with the people in this room in Aberdeen.

好的，这个演示似乎对阿伯丁这个房间里的人来说非常有效。

They really want information.

他们确实想要信息。

This feels like information.

这感觉就像信息。

200-odd people in there, most of them applaud and put money in the basket.

现场有200多人，大多数人鼓掌，把钱放进篮子里。

There are a few people who aren't buying it.

也有少数人不买账。

One woman runs out in tears yelling, "you're crazy."

一名妇女泪流满面地跑出去，大喊：“你疯了。”

At one point, an American Indian stands up to address the crowd saying, "You are all illegal immigrants."

有一次，一名美国印第安人站起来向人群讲话，说：“你们都是非法移民。”

[LAUGHTER] The entire room burst out laughing.

[笑声] 整个房间爆发出笑声。

Somehow, this joke works for everyone.

不知何故，这个笑话对每个人都适用。

Although, of course, it's not a joke.

当然，这不是玩笑。

I want to say clearly here the overall message of Ron Branstner's presentation is not true.

我想在这里明确指出，罗恩·布兰斯特纳演讲的总体信息并不真实。

He's right that the refugee resettlement program is a federal program.

他说得对，难民安置计划是一项联邦计划。

Locals don't have a say in it.

当地人对此没有发言权。

But St. Cloud taxpayers are not getting screwed by this program.

但圣克劳德的纳税人并没有被这个计划搞砸。

Ron's claim that each immigrant costs taxpayers $14,000 comes from this widely discredited study on the cost of the amnesty, which, anyway, is a separate issue.

罗恩声称每个移民要花费纳税人 14,000 美元，这一说法来自于这项广受质疑的关于大赦费用的研究，无论如何，这是一个单独的问题。

The economic consensus is that in the long run, immigrants do not cost taxpayers money.

经济界的共识是，从长远来看，移民不会花费纳税人的钱。

Yes, they use government services.

是的，他们使用政府服务。

That's generally offset by the taxes they pay and the fact that their presence expands the economy.

这通常会被他们缴纳的税款以及他们的存在扩大经济的事实所抵消。

It is true that refugee resettlement programs often put a strain on hospitals and schools initially, because they aren't necessarily prepared for the influx.

确实，难民重新安置计划最初往往会给医院和学校带来压力，因为它们不一定为难民涌入做好准备。

Interpreters, for example, do cost St. Cloud's county an increasing amount of money, about $250,000 in the last year.

例如，口译员确实花费了圣克劳德县越来越多的钱，去年约为 25 万美元。

But this is out of an annual budget of $54 million.

但这超出了 5400 万美元的年度预算。

As for the nonprofits who settle refugees in Minnesota, they get $2,025 per refugee from the State Department.

至于在明尼苏达州安置难民的非营利组织，他们从国务院为每位难民获得 2,025 美元。

Most of that, they spend on the refugees.

其中大部分都花在了难民身上。

In this hotel ballroom in Aberdeen, South Dakota, people aren't interested in a debate over the economics of immigration.

在南达科他州阿伯丁的这家酒店宴会厅里，人们对有关移民经济学的辩论不感兴趣。

This is a conversation about fear.

这是一场关于恐惧的对话。

The most memorable conversation I had was with this state rep Al Novstrup.

我最难忘的谈话是与州议员阿尔·诺夫斯特鲁普 (Al Novstrup) 的谈话。

He's been in state government for 14 years, and he came to this meeting to get more information on Sharia law potentially taking over his city.

他已经在州政府工作了 14 年，他参加这次会议是为了获取有关可能接管他的城市的伊斯兰教法的更多信息。

Like it has other places, he says.

他说，就像其他地方一样。

Like where?

比如哪里？

Al Novstrup Dearborn, Michigan?

阿尔·诺夫斯特鲁普·迪尔伯恩，密歇根州？

From my perspective, as a national reporter, there's still the Constitution.

从我的角度来看，作为一名国家记者，仍然有宪法。

There's no Sharia anywhere.

任何地方都没有伊斯兰教法。

You don't think there's Sharia anywheres in the United States?

你不认为美国任何地方都有伊斯兰教法吗？

Correct.

正确的。

Al Novstrup I think you need to read more.

Al Novstrup 我认为你需要阅读更多内容。

I do read.

我确实读书。

Al Novstrup You don't think there's Sharia any place in the United States?

Al Novstrup：您认为美国没有伊斯兰教法吗？

You don't think-- wow.

你不会想——哇。

OK.

好的。

You don't think there's Sharia?

你不认为有伊斯兰教法吗？

I'm just blown away.

我简直惊呆了。

We're living on two different planets.

我们生活在两个不同的星球上。

Sharia is a really big talking point in pushing for a moratorium on refugees.

伊斯兰教法是推动暂停接收难民的一个非常重要的话题。

The mayor of St. Cloud, Dave Kleis, told me he heard that rumor about Dearborn so many times he finally picked up the phone and called a member of Dearborn city council-- the city is about 40% Arab American-- and double-checked.

圣克劳德市市长戴夫·克莱斯 (Dave Kleis) 告诉我，他多次听到有关迪尔伯恩的谣言，他最终拿起电话给迪尔伯恩市议会的一名成员打了电话——这座城市大约有 40% 是阿拉伯裔美国人——并进行了仔细核实。

Sharia law does not govern Dearborn or anywhere else in the United States.

伊斯兰教法不适用于迪尔伯恩或美国其他任何地方。

Another talking point, the weirdest one, Somalis are systematically ruining rental properties by either trying to plant crops inside their apartments or raise fish in their bathtubs.

另一个话题，也是最奇怪的一个，索马里人试图在公寓内种植农作物或在浴缸里养鱼，从而系统性地破坏出租房产。

I heard this in Minnesota and South Dakota both, the same basic story.

我在明尼苏达州和南达科他州都听到过同样的基本故事。

This is how this movement works.

这就是这个运动的运作方式。

It looks homegrown and grassroots in a hotel ballroom with xeroxed handouts, but all the things Branstner talks about-- Sharia, multiple wives multiplying the demographic changes, the Muslim Brotherhood plan to take over the government-- there is a national movement of people repeating these things all over the country and they're all saying the same thing.

它看起来是酒店宴会厅里土生土长的、草根的，有复印的讲义，但布兰斯特纳谈论的所有事情——伊斯兰教法、多妻加剧人口变化、穆斯林兄弟会计划接管政府——有一场全国性的运动，人们在全国各地重复这些事情，他们都在说同样的事情。

They feed off each other.

他们互相依靠。

Nationally, a major group pushing the same anti-Muslim talking points, it's called ACT for America.

在全国范围内，有一个主要团体推动同样的反穆斯林话题，它被称为“ACT for America”。

It has local chapters in many states, kind of built off the Tea Party.

它在许多州都有地方分会，有点像茶党的基础上建立的。

Peace in St. Cloud recently morphed into an ACT for America chapter.

圣克劳德和平最近演变为“为美国行动”分会。

One of the members just told me.

一位成员刚刚告诉我。

ACT for America coordinates much of its work with this thinktank in DC, called the Center for Security Policy.

ACT for America 与位于华盛顿的智囊团“安全政策中心”协调其大部分工作。

The Southern Poverty Law Center now classifies both as hate groups.

南方贫困法律中心现在将两者归类为仇恨团体。

What this means is that if you're someone who lives in St. Cloud, or Wilmar, or Aberdeen, and you're worried about a mosque coming to your neighborhood, or a random parade going by weirds you out, and you google, say, "mosque, refugees, zoning," there is a whole web of anti-Muslim information sources out there, ready to respond to you.

这意味着，如果你住在圣克劳德、丰益玛或阿伯丁，你担心附近有一座清真寺，或者随机的游行会让你感到奇怪，然后你在谷歌上搜索“清真寺、难民、分区”，就会有一个反穆斯林信息源网络，随时准备回应你。

Like the blog Refugee Resettlement Watch, Creeping Sharia, all informed by the work of ACT for America and the Center for Security Policy.

就像博客《难民安置观察》、《蠕动的伊斯兰教法》一样，所有这些都受到了 ACT for America 和安全政策中心的工作的启发。

And then there you are-- you have a connection to speakers, and tactics, and talking points.

然后你就可以了——你与演讲者、策略和谈话要点有联系。

It's this interconnected web of misinformation.

这是一个相互关联的错误信息网络。

And then I looked at poll numbers.

然后我查看了民意调查数字。

And I don't mean polls where I'm winning.

我指的并不是我获胜的民意调查。

Those numbers I like looking at.

我喜欢看这些数字。

These numbers I hated to look at.

我讨厌看到这些数字。

Here's Donald Trump announcing his Muslim ban idea back in December in South Carolina.

唐纳德·特朗普 (Donald Trump) 去年 12 月在南卡罗来纳州宣布了他的穆斯林禁令想法。

25% of those polls-- and this was from the Center for Security Policy, a very highly respected group of people who I know, actually--

其中 25% 的民意调查——这是来自安全政策中心的，事实上，这是我认识的一个非常受尊敬的群体——

The Center for Security Policy, the group that works with ACT for America.

安全政策中心，该组织与 ACT for America 合作。

25% of those polls agreed violence against Americans is justified as Muslims.

25% 的民意调查认为，作为穆斯林，针对美国人的暴力行为是正当的。

25%.

25%。

51%-- 51%, highly respected number of polling groups, want to be governed according to Sharia.

51% - 51%，备受尊敬的投票团体，希望根据伊斯兰教法进行治理。

You know what Sharia is.

你知道什么是伊斯兰教法。

These poll numbers have been discredited.

这些民意调查数字已被怀疑。

And groups like the Center for Security Policy weren't just giving talking points to Donald Trump.

安全政策中心等组织不仅仅是向唐纳德·特朗普提供谈话要点。

They had people on Ted Cruz's campaign.

他们有人参与特德·克鲁兹的竞选活动。

And they fed the same ideas to speakers in little towns and cities like St. Cloud.

他们向圣克劳德等小镇和城市的演讲者提出了同样的想法。

This created a receptive audience for any political candidate making those talking points.

这为任何提出这些观点的政治候选人创造了一个容易接受的听众。

The Somalis in town or not just passively watching the white people fight among themselves about Muslim refugees, of course.

当然，城里的索马里人并不仅仅是被动地看着白人为了穆斯林难民而互相争斗。

There are also small organized groups trying to push a different message in St. Cloud about new immigrants.

还有一些有组织的小团体试图在圣克劳德传播有关新移民的不同信息。

They have speakers too.

他们也有扬声器。

You can get really busy in St. Cloud, actually, going to speakers and panels on both sides of this thing.

事实上，你在圣克劳德会非常忙碌，去听这东西两侧的扬声器和面板。

My name is Ayan Omar, and I am a Somali refugee Muslim American.

我叫阿扬·奥马尔，是一名索马里难民、穆斯林美国人。

I met Ayan Omar at this interfaith dialogue meeting at St. Joseph's Church in St. Joseph, Minnesota, 15 minutes away from St. Cloud.

我在明尼苏达州圣约瑟夫的圣约瑟夫教堂举行的跨宗教对话会议上遇到了阿扬·奥马尔，距离圣克劳德 15 分钟路程。

She does these panels where she goes around to churches and tells her story of being a Somali Muslim refugee in America.

她在这些小组中走访教堂，讲述自己作为美国索马里穆斯林难民的故事。

Ayan's intense.

阿彦很激烈。

She's 28, bright white hijab, dark red lipstick.

她28岁，亮白色的头巾，深红色的口红。

When she does these panels, she takes questions.

当她做这些小组讨论时，她会回答问题。

And the people in the room write them down on a piece of paper so that they're anonymous and pass them to the front.

房间里的人把它们写在一张纸上，这样它们就是匿名的，然后把它们传递到前面。

The questions are remarkably candid.

这些问题非常坦诚。

Father Peter Meyer reads them out.

彼得·迈耶神父将它们读出。

I've been told by several reliable sources that Muslims believe that people that are not Muslim are to be destroyed.

几个可靠消息来源告诉我，穆斯林相信非穆斯林的人会被消灭。

This makes me fearful.

这让我感到害怕。

Please help me understand.

请帮助我理解。

OK, so I was raised in the way that the Quran says-- "if you take one life, it's as if you've taken all of humanity."

好吧，我是按照《古兰经》所说的方式长大的——“如果你夺走了一个人的生命，就好像你夺走了全人类一样。”

Ayan goes on and explains the Five Pillars of Islam and does this demonstration for the room, how she prays five times a day.

阿扬继续解释伊斯兰教的五大支柱，并在房间里进行演示，展示她如何每天祈祷五次。

She kneels and touches her head to the church floor.

她跪下来，用头触碰教堂的地板。

People stand on their tiptoes to see.

人们踮起脚尖观看。

The next question, "Are Muslims allowed to be polygamous?

下一个问题是：“穆斯林允许一夫多妻制吗？

Do we have to pay for multiple wives?" Jama, people call him an elder in the Somali community, he takes this question.

我们必须为多个妻子付出代价吗？”贾马，人们称他为索马里社区的长者，他回答了这个问题。

I say, OK.

我说，好吧。

Here, in the United States, we are allowed to have one wife.

在美国，我们可以拥有一位妻子。

So we abide by the rule, and we have one wife.

所以我们遵守规矩，有一个妻子。

But--

但是——

The room tenses up.

房间里气氛紧张起来。

Jama As I learned here in the States, you can have one wife, but you can have five or six girlfriends.

贾玛 正如我在美国了解到的那样，你可以有一个妻子，但你可以有五六个女朋友。

Ayan is a teacher at a high school in town and she's the mother of a three-year-old.

阿燕是镇上一所高中的老师，她是一个三岁孩子的母亲。

When she hears that people feel afraid of Muslims, she says, "I understand having a feeling.

当她听说人们害怕穆斯林时，她说：“我理解有这种感觉。

You can't argue with a feeling."

你无法与感觉争论。”

To those individuals who are afraid, or who feel threatened, or who feel that their world is shaking, you have a right to feel that way.

对于那些感到害怕、感到受到威胁或感到世界正在震动的人，你有权有这种感觉。

You don't have a right to lash out.

你没有权利发泄。

I tell my daughter this whenever she cries.

每当我女儿哭的时候，我都会告诉她这句话。

I say, "It's OK to cry." And when she gets angry, "It's OK to be angry.

我说：“哭没关系。”当她生气时，“生气是可以的。

Everyone gets angry.

每个人都会生气。

But you don't have a right to slam the doors."

但你没有权利关上门。”

The way she sees it is like St. Cloud is having a tantrum.

在她看来，圣克劳德好像在发脾气。

And tantrums end.

发脾气结束了。

So she's patient.

所以她很有耐心。

She's an optimist about St. Cloud.

她对圣克劳德持乐观态度。

There are plenty of people in the city that don't feel this way at all.

这个城市里有很多人根本没有这种感觉。

And for those who do, they just learned bad information.

对于那些这样做的人来说，他们只是学到了不好的信息。

She can win them back by giving them good information.

她可以通过向他们提供有用的信息来赢回他们。

Then, in September-- Newscaster Breaking news out of St. Cloud tonight.

然后，九月——新闻播音员今晚从圣克劳德传来突发新闻。

The Crossroads Mall remains on lockdown after several people were stabbed.

多人被刺伤后，十字路口购物中心仍处于封锁状态。

On September 17, there was a stabbing at Crossroads Mall in St. Cloud, Minnesota, same place actually that Carol's granddaughter got hit in the head.

9月17日，明尼苏达州圣克劳德的十字路口购物中心发生了一起持刀伤人事件，卡罗尔的孙女的头部也正是在同一地点被击中。

It was national news.

这是全国新闻。

You probably heard about it.

你可能听说过它。

Both presidential candidates have addressed it.

两位总统候选人都谈到了这个问题。

It was a violent and awful act, this guy running around the mall with two knives, asking people if they're Muslim.

这是一种暴力和可怕的行为，这个人拿着两把刀在商场里跑来跑去，询问人们是否是穆斯林。

Nine people ended up at the hospital.

九人最终被送往医院。

All were released by the next day.

第二天全部被释放。

The guy who did it was Somali Muslim refugee American.

做这件事的人是美国索马里穆斯林难民。

He was killed by an off-duty police officer.

他被一名休班警察杀害。

Again, here's Ayan.

再说一次，这是阿扬。

You know, it's funny.

你知道，这很有趣。

I was at the mall.

我当时在商场。

I missed it by 15 minutes.

我错过了15分钟。

I was shopping at Kohl's and I received a text message, just as I was checking out.

我正在 Kohl's 购物，正当我结账时收到一条短信。

"Hey, are you still at the mall?" I said, "No, I left.

“喂，你还在商场吗？”我说：“不，我走了。

Sorry.

抱歉。

If you wanted to go, maybe we can go some other time." She goes, "No, didn't you hear?" I said, "hear what?" She said, "Oh, there was a stabbing."

如果你想去的话，也许我们可以改天去。”她说：“没有，你没听到吗？”我说：“听到什么？”她说：“噢，有人被刺伤了。”

And I went online and I read it.

我上网阅读了它。

And I remember thinking, oh, please, don't let it be a Muslim.

我记得我当时想，哦，拜托，不要让它成为穆斯林。

Don't let it be Somali.

别让它成为索马里语。

Because I've been working so hard and creating a community.

因为我一直在努力工作并创建一个社区。

This, I don't need this.

这个，我不需要这个。

And then I found out.

然后我发现了。

It was a heavy-hearted week, emotionally exhausting.

这是心情沉重的一周，精神上疲惫不堪。

In St. Cloud, there were two ways to read the stabbing.

在圣克劳德，有两种方式来解读刺伤事件。

For the people who wanted a moratorium, it was proof.

对于那些想要暂停的人来说，这是证据。

Some people I'd been talking to for months were like, "I told you so.

与我交谈了几个月的一些人就像是，“我告诉过你了。

We knew it would come to this." To be clear, they were scared of violent extremism.

我们知道事情会发展到这个地步。”需要明确的是，他们害怕暴力极端主义。

One guy told me the day after the stabbing he applied for a carry license.

一名男子告诉我，刺伤事件发生后的第二天，他申请了携带许可证。

For those on the other side, unity rallies, press conferences, Somali leaders in the area running around, giving interview after our interview, saying that guy does not represent all Muslims.

对于另一边的人来说，团结集会，新闻发布会，该地区的索马里领导人四处奔波，在我们采访后接受采访，说那个人并不代表所有穆斯林。

AM 1450, FM 1033, KNSI's Ox in the Afternoon.

AM 1450，FM 1033，KNSI 的《下午的牛》。

Congressman Emmer went on talk radio right after the stabbing, trying to keep everyone calm on all sides.

刺伤事件发生后，埃默议员立即在电台谈话，试图让各方保持冷静。

If somebody commits an act, like we saw on Saturday night, it really drives a deep concern in the community-- fear.

如果有人做出某种行为，就像我们在周六晚上看到的那样，这确实会引起社区的深切关注——恐惧。

He knows that his constituents who want a moratorium on Muslims now, they want it more than ever.

他知道他的选民现在想要暂停穆斯林活动，他们比以往任何时候都更想要。

The old Peace in St. Cloud/ACT for America group met up the week of the stabbing.

圣克劳德和平组织/美国行动组织在刺伤事件发生的那一周举行了会议。

So did AJ Kern's supporters.

AJ Kern 的支持者也是如此。

One of them tells me they're gearing up either for her next campaign or someone with the same message to replace Tom Emmer.

其中一位告诉我，他们要么正在为她的下一次竞选做准备，要么正在找一个有同样信息的人来取代汤姆·埃默。

When I spoke with Emmer, he told me something like what Ayan might say.

当我与埃默交谈时，他告诉了我一些类似于阿扬可能会说的话。

These are good people in his party who came under the influence of bad information.

他的党内有一些好人，但受到了不良信息的影响。

And you have to let them vent, and you have to listen, and then figure out what to do.

你必须让他们发泄，你必须倾听，然后弄清楚该怎么做。

I can give you this.

我可以给你这个。

I think it went on far too long.

我认为这持续得太久了。

I think nobody confronting this allowed it to grow past what people in St. Cloud are comfortable with and people within the Republican small group are comfortable with.

我认为面对这一问题的人没有人允许它发展到超出圣克劳德人民和共和党小团体内的人们感到满意的程度。

The local Republican Party, just like the national one, has to figure out where it's going to stand on this issue going forward.

当地共和党，就像全国共和党一样，必须弄清楚未来在这个问题上的立场。

Are they going to be a party that welcomes immigrants, refugees, Muslims, or not?

他们是否会成为一个欢迎移民、难民、穆斯林的政党？

The problem for Emmer is, his constituents went from having no opinion on the Somalis to a really strong opinion.

埃默面临的问题是，他的选民对索马里人从没有意见变成了非常强烈的意见。

Once that switch has been flipped, once voters have decided they want Somalis out, it might be hard to flip it back.

一旦这个开关被翻转，一旦选民决定希望索马里人退出，就很难再将其翻转回来。

I met up with Bobby again before I left St. Cloud, in the Coon Rapids IHOP.

离开圣克劳德之前，我在库恩急流 IHOP 再次见到了鲍比。

He's been in lots of those conversations already, including this one that summarizes the problem facing the party pretty succinctly.

他已经参加过很多这样的谈话，包括这次相当简洁地总结了该党面临的问题的谈话。

I remember one time a guy stood up at one of the other meetings.

我记得有一次，在其他一次会议上，有一个人站了起来。

And he's active in the party.

而且他在党内很活跃。

He's one of the better volunteers in the area.

他是该地区最好的志愿者之一。

Everyone loves him, but he just stood up and he said, "This is why we lose.

每个人都爱他，但他只是站起来说：“这就是我们失败的原因。

Whether you're right or wrong, you're coming off extremely racist.

无论你是对还是错，你都会表现出极端的种族主义。

And if you want to make an argument that the reason the refugees coming is bad is because economically this, that, the other, we'll have that conversation, but right now it sounds like refugees are bad because they're Muslims." And he was pretty passionate about it.

如果你想争论说，难民到来的原因是不好的，因为经济上这个、那个、其他的，我们会进行这样的对话，但现在听起来难民不好，因为他们是穆斯林。”他对此非常热情。

He got up and left.

他起身离开。

And he said the right thing and I think he looked better for it.

他说的是对的，我认为他看起来更好。

But everyone else was like, oh, wow.

但其他人都说，哦，哇。

I can't believe he thought we were racist.

我不敢相信他认为我们是种族主义者。

We said we're not racist.

我们说过我们不是种族主义者。

That guy got up and left.

那人起身就走。

Bobby is still in it.

鲍比仍在其中。

He still goes to his local party meetings in a slightly different part of the state.

他仍然会去该州稍有不同的地方参加当地的政党会议。

I asked Bobby, is the Republican Party going to be more like you in the future or more Donald Trump?

我问鲍比，未来的共和党会更像你，还是更像唐纳德·特朗普？

And he said, "I see that conflict as between old and young, and the younger people will win out." And in the long run, sure.

他说：“我认为这是老年人和年轻人之间的冲突，年轻人将获胜。”从长远来看，当然。

The short run, though, it's going to be messy.

但短期来看，情况会很混乱。

Zoe Chace is one of the producers of our program.

佐伊·查斯是我们节目的制作人之一。

Act 2, Party Guy.

第二幕，派对达人。

So as we said at the beginning of the show, so many people in the Republican leadership seem like tragic figures this year, not so happy with their nominee Donald Trump but having to hold their tongues.

正如我们在节目开头所说，今年共和党领导层中的许多人似乎都是悲剧人物，他们对自己的提名人唐纳德·特朗普不太满意，但不得不保持沉默。

Even as his poll numbers are now looking very, very bad, they have to stick by him.

尽管他的民意调查数字现在看起来非常非常糟糕，但他们必须坚持他。

The head of the Republican National Committee, Reince Priebus, he has the job of holding the whole party together, including things like trying to get his nominee to play nicely with the house leader Paul Ryan and vice versa.

共和党全国委员会主席赖因斯·普利巴斯 (Reince Priebus) 的职责是让整个党团结在一起，包括努力让他的提名人与众议院领袖保罗·瑞安 (Paul Ryan) 相处融洽，反之亦然。

That is clearly a thankless, grueling job.

这显然是一项吃力不讨好、吃力不讨好的工作。

We asked Broadway composer Michael Friedman, who did a political musical called Bloody, Bloody Andrew Jackson , to imagine what Reince Priebus might be thinking but not expressing publicly.

我们请百老汇作曲家迈克尔·弗里德曼（Michael Friedman）想象一下雷因斯·普里巴斯可能在想什么但没有公开表达，他曾创作过一部名为《血腥，血腥安德鲁·杰克逊》的政治音乐剧。

John Ellison Conlee sings the part of Reince Priebus.

约翰·埃里森·康利 (John Ellison Conlee) 饰演雷因斯·普利巴斯 (Reince Priebus)。

The Speaker of the House calls and says, "Tell Trump I'm not speaking to him anymore." Then the candidate tweets [SNIFF] "Ryan's a traitor.

众议院议长打电话说：“告诉特朗普我不再和他说话了。”然后候选人发推文[嗅探]“瑞安是个叛徒。

Also, Miss Universe is a whore." A two-hour call to say, "Donald, please, just make an apology." Then Breitbart adds, "Just don't tick off the core constituency." Meanwhile, half the Republican leadership called to say, "We are shocked, shocked and appalled."

而且，环球小姐也是个妓女。”两个小时的电话说：“唐纳德，请道歉。”然后布赖特巴特新闻网补充道，“只是不要勾选核心选民。”与此同时，一半的共和党领导层打电话说：“我们感到震惊、震惊和震惊。”

And I just smile.

我只是微笑。

I'm a party guy.

我是一个派对狂。

Smile, toe the party line.

微笑，遵守党的路线。

Smile, even when you don't know why.

微笑，即使你不知道为什么。

Fox News asks me "Is Donald Trump a good role model for the youth of today?" And I say, "You know, I think everybody is a role model in their own way." My biggest donor to The New York Times, "Reince Priebus should be fired!"

福克斯新闻问我“唐纳德·特朗普是当今年轻人的好榜样吗？”我说：“你知道，我认为每个人都以自己的方式成为榜样。”我对《纽约时报》最大的捐助者，“Reince Priebus 应该被解雇！”

You want to know how it's going?

你想知道进展如何吗？

Honestly, I'm tired, but I smile.

说实话，我很累，但我微笑着。

I'm a party guy.

我是一个派对狂。

Smile, toe the party line.

微笑，遵守党的路线。

Don't let 'em see you cry.

别让他们看到你哭。

On Monday night, my finance guy told The Washington Post, "The RNC is sinking fast and it's our own fault." On Tuesday, my director of communications said he wasn't sure if grabbing genitals was sexual assault.

周一晚上，我的财务人员告诉《华盛顿邮报》，“共和党全国委员会正在迅速衰落，这是我们自己的错。”周二，我的通讯主管表示，他不确定抓住生殖器是否属于性侵犯。

The Wall Street Journal says, "Republicans in an all-out war," and late at night, I ask myself what were we even fighting for?

《华尔街日报》说，“共和党人正在一场全面战争中”，深夜，我问自己，我们到底在为了什么而战？

Smile, you're a party guy.

微笑吧，你是个派对狂。

Smile, you can't say that I didn't try.

笑一笑，你不能说我没有尝试过。

Smile.

微笑。

I don't need your flipping thanks.

我不需要你的感谢。

Just don't blame me up when your country tanks.

当你的国家陷入困境时，请不要责怪我。

You take whatever victories you can get.

你会取得任何你能获得的胜利。

So I'm not pouring Bailey's in my cereal yet.

所以我还没有把贝利酒倒入麦片中。

Smile, whatever will be, will be.

微笑吧，无论怎样，都会如此。

I'll still have the party, Reince and the party.

我仍然会举办派对，雷因斯和派对。

The party and me.

党和我。

John Ellison Conlee, arrangements and musical direction for that song by Justin Levine.

约翰·埃里森·康利 (John Ellison Conlee)，贾斯汀·莱文 (Justin Levine) 为这首歌进行的编曲和音乐指导。

Our program was produced today by Susan Burton and Zoe Chace.

今天我们的节目由苏珊·伯顿和佐伊·查斯制作。

Our production staff for today's show, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Neil Drumming, Emmanuel Dzotsi, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, David Kestenbaum, Sarah Koenig, and Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Robyn Semien, Matt Tierney, and Nancy Updike.

我们今天节目的制作人员包括 Dana Chivvis、Sean Cole、Neil Drumming、Emmanuel Dzotsi、Stephanie Foo、Chana Joffe-Walt、David Kestenbaum、Sarah Koenig、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Robyn Semien、Matt Tierney 和 Nancy Updike。

Research help from Lily Sullivan, Christopher [?

莉莉·沙利文、克里斯托弗的研究帮助[？

Sutala, ?] and Benjamin [?

苏塔拉，？] 和本杰明 [？

Failan.

菲兰.

?] Music help from Damian Graf.

？] 达米安·格拉夫 (Damian Graf) 的音乐帮助。

Special thanks today Kirsty Marone, Sally Jo Sorensen, Haji Yussef, Natalie Ringsmuth, Kathleen Virnig, Linda Radin, Paul Brandmire, Sue Ek, Matt Westland, Jeffrey Baum, and Giovanni Peri, Cindy Kent, John Esposito, Engy Abdelkader, David Neiwert, Mark Sizer, Jody Avrigan, Kalia Abiade, Kevin Genachowski, Robert Costa, Mark Leibovich, and Stephen Merritt.

今天特别感谢 Kirsty Marone、Sally Jo Sorensen、Haji Yussef、Natalie Ringsmuth、Kathleen Virnig、Linda Radin、Paul Brandmire、Sue Ek、Matt Westland、Jeffrey Baum 和 Giovanni Peri、Cindy Kent、John Esposito、Engy Abdelkader、David Neiwert、Mark Sizer、Jody Avrigan、Kalia Abiade、Kevin Genachowski、Robert科斯塔、马克·莱博维奇和斯蒂芬·梅里特。

Our website, thisamericanlife.org.

我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。

This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.

《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。

Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia, who you know we hear from every week here at the end of our program.

一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生，您知道我们每周都会在项目结束时收到他的来信。

He told me he feels like he is just not getting enough airtime.

他告诉我，他觉得自己没有获得足够的通话时间。

Someone write me a big speech.

有人给我写了一篇重要的演讲。

I don't know the words.

我不认识这个词。

You give me the words, but I want a big, big, big speech.

你给我演讲，但我想要一场盛大、盛大、盛大的演讲。

I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.

我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。

This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.

This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。