581: Anatomy of Doubt - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #581 | October 4, 2019 581: Anatomy of Doubt Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 581 集 | 2019 年 10 月 4 日 581：剖析怀疑 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life .
序言 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥的 Ira Glass，这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
And I want to tell you about two police investigations.
我想告诉你有关警方的两项调查。
One of them is done so inspiringly well, it's like the detectives in it are like detectives on a television show-- smart and resourceful and great judgment and just police at their very best.
其中一部做得非常好，令人鼓舞，就像电视节目中的侦探一样——聪明、足智多谋、判断力出色，是警察的最佳表现。
The other case-- the same crime, lots of the same facts-- is the opposite.
另一个案件——同样的罪行，许多相同的事实——则相反。
It goes terribly.
事情进展得很糟糕。
And the investigation that goes wrong goes wrong in a very unusual way.
出错的调查以一种非常不寻常的方式出错。
It's like a game of telephone, where one misunderstanding begets another misunderstanding begets another, until something that is not true spreads to an entire community of people and somehow hardens into the truth.
这就像一场电话游戏，一个误解引发另一个误解，另一个误解又引发另一个误解，直到某些不真实的事情传播到整个社区，并以某种方式变成事实。
And it happens incredibly fast.
而且它发生得非常快。
It happens in just three days.
事情发生在短短三天内。
And just to get in front of this, the crime that we're going to be talking about this hour is a sexual assault.
首先，我们今天要讨论的犯罪是性侵犯。
If that's a trigger for you, consider this a warning.
如果这对您来说是一个触发因素，请将此视为警告。
And one of the first phone calls in this chain comes right after the crime.
这个链条中的第一个电话是在犯罪发生后立即打来的。
This is back in August, 2008.
这还要追溯到2008年8月。
A woman named Shannon was standing on her balcony in a Seattle suburb when she got the phone call.
当一位名叫香农的女士接到电话时，她正站在西雅图郊区的阳台上。
It was from an 18-year-old she knew named Marie, who told her she'd been woken up in the night by a stranger who raped her.
这是她认识的一位名叫玛丽的 18 岁女孩发来的，她告诉她，她在半夜被一个强奸了她的陌生人吵醒。
And I asked her, are you OK?
我问她，你还好吗？
And she said she was OK and that she was going to be staying, I think, with a friend that night.
她说她很好，我想，那天晚上她会和一个朋友住在一起。
And when my husband got home, I told him what had happened.
当我丈夫回到家时，我告诉他发生了什么事。
But I said, I don't know that it happened.
但我说，我不知道这件事发生了。
There's something about how she said it that just made me question whether or not she'd actually been raped.
她说的话让我怀疑她是否真的被强奸了。
It was the tone of her voice.
这是她的语气。
There was just no emotion.
只是没有任何情绪。
It was like she was telling me that she'd made a sandwich.
就像她告诉我她做了一个三明治。
I just made myself a chicken sandwich.
我刚给自己做了一个鸡肉三明治。
Shannon felt awful doubting Marie.
香农对玛丽的怀疑感到非常难过。
She'd known Marie for years.
她认识玛丽很多年了。
Marie was a foster child who had stayed with Shannon and her husband very briefly-- just a couple weeks-- when she was younger.
玛丽是一个养女，年轻时曾与香农和她的丈夫一起生活过很短的时间——只有几周。
And they'd all hit it off.
他们都很合得来。
And she stayed close with Marie even after Marie went to live in another foster home.
即使玛丽搬到另一个寄养家庭生活后，她仍与玛丽保持密切联系。
They'd hang out together, cook together.
他们会一起出去玩，一起做饭。
They gave up carbs together for a few weeks.
他们一起放弃了碳水化合物几周。
Shannon loved Marie.
香农爱玛丽。
She saw herself in Marie.
她在玛丽身上看到了自己。
They were alike in lots of ways.
他们在很多方面都很相似。
That was actually part of her doubt.
这实际上是她怀疑的一部分。
Marie was emotional.
玛丽很激动。
She did cry, like Shannon.
她确实哭了，就像香农一样。
If I had been raped, I would have been hysterical.
如果我被强奸了，我就会歇斯底里。
I would have been crying, really upset because I was sexually abused as a child.
我会哭，非常难过，因为我小时候遭受过性虐待。
And I was sexually assaulted as an adult.
我成年后也遭受过性侵犯。
And I never told anyone for years and years.
多年来我从未告诉过任何人。
And when I did tell someone, I was hysterical, emotional and crying and shamed.
当我确实告诉别人时，我歇斯底里、情绪化、哭泣和羞愧。
But Shannon was wrong about Marie.
但香农对玛丽的看法是错误的。
Marie had been raped.
玛丽被强奸了。
It was proven later beyond a shadow of a doubt.
后来这一点被证明是毫无疑问的。
And the way her case went wrong-- you know, we've all heard stories about police not believing women who come forward and say that they were sexually assaulted.
她的案子出了问题——你知道，我们都听说过警察不相信站出来说自己遭到性侵犯的女性的故事。
But in this case, the doubts began not with the police but with people much closer to Marie, people who love her and have the best intentions towards her.
但在这起案件中，怀疑不是始于警察，而是源于与玛丽关系密切的人，那些爱她并对她怀有善意的人。
What goes wrong in this case is something so personal, it's like people exercising empathy and getting it wrong.
在这种情况下，问题是非常个人化的，就像人们运用同理心却犯了错误一样。
And then that mistake spreads to officials and friends and acquaintances until it is impossible for them all to see the truth, even when new proof comes to light, even when it's all right there in front of them.
然后这种错误就会蔓延到官员、朋友和熟人身上，直到他们所有人都无法看到真相，即使新的证据浮出水面，即使一切就在他们面前。
Our reporting today is a partnership with The Marshall Project and ProPublica.
我们今天的报道是与马歇尔项目和 ProPublica 合作的。
The first part of the story takes place mostly in Lynnwood, Washington, near Seattle.
故事的第一部分主要发生在西雅图附近的华盛顿州林伍德。
Marshall Project investigative reporter Ken Armstrong and one of our producers, Robyn Semien, will explain how all this unfolded, starting with Ken, who'll explain a little more about Marie.
马歇尔计划的调查记者肯·阿姆斯特朗和我们的制片人之一罗宾·塞米恩将解释这一切是如何展开的，首先是肯，他将解释更多关于玛丽的事情。
Marie gets along with people.
玛丽与人相处融洽。
She's good at it.
她很擅长。
It's important to her.
这对她很重要。
She moved around a lot when she was a kid in the foster care system-- she thinks 10 or 11 different families, not including group homes.
当她还是个在寄养系统中的孩子时，她经常搬家——她认为有 10 或 11 个不同的家庭，不包括集体之家。
But she did well in a group, looked forward to high school, loved her classes, liked to hike and go to the beach with her friends, really got into photography.
但她在集体中表现很好，对高中充满期待，喜欢她的课程，喜欢和朋友一起徒步旅行和去海滩，真的很喜欢摄影。
At 18, she was proud of herself for surviving the foster care system, got a job at Costco, her own apartment.
18 岁时，她为自己在寄养系统中幸存下来而感到自豪，并在 Costco 找到了一份工作，她自己的公寓。
It was just nice to be on my own and not have all the rules that I had had when being in foster care.
独自一人，不用遵守寄养时所遵循的所有规则，真是太好了。
And it was just like freedom.
这就像自由一样。
So it was just awesome.
所以这真是太棒了。
She kept in touch with previous foster families, like Shannon and her last foster mom, Peggy.
她与以前的寄养家庭保持联系，比如香农和她最后一位养母佩吉。
Shannon was the fun adult in Marie's life.
香农是玛丽生活中有趣的成年人。
They were goofballs together.
他们在一起都是傻瓜。
They'd have sleepovers at Shannon's house, laugh a lot.
他们会在香农家里过夜，经常开怀大笑。
Peggy, who'd been Marie's foster mom from 16 to 18, was more serious and teacherly, more tough love, more worried about Marie's big personality and free spirit getting in the way of Marie's becoming a responsible young adult.
佩吉从 16 岁到 18 岁一直是玛丽的养母，她更加严肃、更有教养，更加严厉的爱，更担心玛丽的大个性和自由精神会妨碍玛丽成为一个负责任的年轻人。
Peggy lived close, and on the morning of the assault, Peggy was the first adult Marie called.
佩吉住得很近，袭击发生的那天早上，佩吉是玛丽第一个打电话的成年人。
This is Peggy.
这是佩吉。
It was so early in the morning, I just left, and I drove over there immediately.
时间还早，我刚出发，就立刻开车过去。
So the police were there.
所以警察就在那里。
And Marie was sitting on the floor crying.
玛丽坐在地板上哭泣。
I sat down next to her, and she was telling me what happened.
我坐在她旁边，她正在告诉我发生了什么事。
And I got this-- I'm a big Law and Order fan.
我明白了——我是《法律与秩序》的忠实粉丝。
And I just got this really weird feeling.
我有一种非常奇怪的感觉。
It was like-- I felt like she was telling me the script of a Law and Order story.
就像——我觉得她正在给我讲法律与秩序故事的剧本。
She was detached.
她很超然。
Detached.
分离。
Emotionally detached from what she was saying.
情感上脱离了她所说的话。
It felt like, just, what's this drama going on?
感觉就像，这出戏是怎么回事？
But still, there was a part of me that was like, oh, my God.
但我内心仍然有一部分感觉，哦，天啊。
I mean, if it is real, I need to respond.
我的意思是，如果这是真的，我需要回应。
I remember being in shock and shaking in a blanket in the corner.
我记得当时我很震惊，在角落里的毯子里瑟瑟发抖。
They asked me a few questions about what had happened, and I had told them I'd left my door unlocked and that someone had broken into my apartment and raped me.
他们问了我一些关于发生了什么的问题，我告诉他们我没有锁门，有人闯入我的公寓并强奸了我。
Again, this is Marie.
再说一次，这是玛丽。
She's 25 now.
她现在25岁了。
A quick warning-- what she told police is difficult to hear and definitely not for kids.
快速警告——她告诉警察的话很难听，而且绝对不适合孩子。
Here's what happened-- Marie was home by herself, and she was awake all night talking on the phone with her ex-boyfriend, Jordan.
事情是这样的——玛丽一个人在家，她整夜没睡，和她的前男友乔丹通电话。
I got off the phone and went to sleep and then opened my eyes, and there was somebody in my house.
我挂掉电话去睡觉，然后睁开眼睛，有人在我家里。
He had a knife in his hand and was wearing a mask.
他手里拿着刀，戴着面具。
He blindfolded me and gagged me and tied my hands behind my back.
他蒙住我的眼睛，堵住我的嘴，并将我的双手反绑在背后。
He raped her.
他强奸了她。
He went through her stuff.
他翻阅了她的东西。
He took pictures.
他拍了照片。
He knew her name.
他知道她的名字。
Marie prayed he wouldn't kill her.
玛丽祈祷他不要杀她。
And then, after he was done with everything, he said that I shouldn't have left my door unlocked.
然后，当他做完所有事情后，他说我不应该锁门。
I guess I must have left it unlocked, the sliding glass door.
我想我一定是没锁滑动玻璃门。
And he just said that he was sorry and it all looked better in his head than when he did it to me.
他只是说他很抱歉，在他看来，这一切比他对我做的时候要好。
He said if she went to the police, he'd put the pictures he had of her online.
他说，如果她报警，他会把她的照片放到网上。
When the police arrived at Marie's apartment, they did what you'd expect-- they processed the crime scene.
当警察到达玛丽的公寓时，他们做了你所期望的事情——他们处理了犯罪现场。
A crime scene technician snapped photos of the place.
犯罪现场技术人员拍摄了该地点的照片。
It didn't look like much, an 18-year-old's tidy, bare-bones apartment-- a sofa, a bike, a desktop computer on the floor in the corner.
它看上去并不起眼，是一个 18 岁年轻人的整洁、简陋的公寓——一张沙发、一辆自行车、角落地板上的一台台式电脑。
The bed was unmade, green comforter on the floor, a messy sheet.
床没有整理，地板上铺着绿色的被子，床单凌乱。
Marie was blindfolded, and her attacker wore a mask, so there wasn't a real description.
玛丽被蒙住眼睛，袭击她的人戴着面具，所以没有真实的描述。
He wore gloves to avoid fingerprints.
他戴着手套以避免留下指纹。
He wore a condom.
他戴着避孕套。
But there was physical evidence.
但有物证。
The police got fingerprints off the sliding glass door.
警察从滑动玻璃门上提取了指纹。
Just beyond the glass door, on the back porch, it looked like someone had brushed off a dusty railing while climbing over it.
就在玻璃门后面的后廊上，看起来好像有人爬过积满灰尘的栏杆。
Police collected the bedding, hoping for DNA-- maybe fibers or hairs.
警方收集了床上用品，希望能找到 DNA——也许是纤维或毛发。
Marie was examined by a doctor.
玛丽接受了医生的检查。
There was a rape kit and a report noting bruising on both of Marie's wrists, plus other bruising and abrasions consistent with sexual activity.
有一个强奸工具包和一份报告，指出玛丽的两只手腕上都有瘀伤，还有其他与性活动相符的瘀伤和擦伤。
When police searched the apartment, they found the things Marie had said the man had used-- the knife, the makeshift blindfold and gag, the shoelaces used to tie her up with.
当警察搜查公寓时，他们发现了玛丽所说的那个男人用过的东西——刀、临时眼罩和堵嘴器、用来绑住她的鞋带。
That's when Marie realized that all of those things were hers to begin with.
就在那时玛丽意识到所有这些东西最初都是她的。
The knife was from her kitchen.
这把刀是她厨房里的。
The shoelaces came from her sneakers out in the living room.
鞋带来自她在客厅里的运动鞋。
Peggy remembers hearing about the shoelaces and adding them to her list of things that just didn't make sense.
佩吉记得听说过鞋带并将其添加到她的无意义物品清单中。
And I just-- the whole thing with the shoelaces, I was like, first of all, is a shoelace strong enough to tie somebody's wrists with?
我只是——关于鞋带的整个事情，我想，首先，鞋带是否足够坚固，可以用来绑住某人的手腕？
Then, that same day, Marie called several of her friends, not just her closest ones, to tell them about the rape.
然后，就在同一天，玛丽打电话给她的几个朋友，而不仅仅是她最亲密的朋友，告诉他们强奸事件。
For Peggy, this behavior fit into a bigger picture she had of Marie-- attention-seeking, too flaunty, too flirty, loud, not really aware of how she was coming off in public.
对于佩吉来说，这种行为符合她对玛丽的更大看法——寻求关注、过于张扬、过于轻浮、大声，并不真正意识到自己在公共场合的表现。
Like at the grocery store, riding around in carts with her friends, getting really silly, Peggy said.
佩吉说，就像在杂货店一样，和朋友们一起推车到处转，变得非常愚蠢。
Peggy was often telling Marie she needed to tone it down.
佩吉经常告诉玛丽她需要低调一点。
So to Peggy, Marie calling everyone she knew and saying, "hey, I got raped," didn't seem right to her.
因此，对于佩吉来说，玛丽给她认识的每个人打电话并说“嘿，我被强奸了”，这对她来说似乎是不对的。
She wondered, was this rape story one more way to get attention?
她想知道，这个强奸故事是另一种引起关注的方式吗？
Marie, meanwhile, says, sure.
与此同时，玛丽说，当然可以。
She was calling everyone she knew for what she thought was a good reason.
她给所有认识的人打电话，理由是她认为有充分的理由。
I think I did that because I didn't want it to happen to anybody else.
我想我这么做是因为我不想让这种事发生在其他人身上。
I just wanted to let people know that there was somebody out there hurting people.
我只是想让人们知道有人在伤害别人。
It wasn't the first time I had been raped-- when I was little and I was living with my mom.
这不是我第一次被强奸——当时我还很小，和妈妈住在一起。
I never told anybody about that stuff, that it happened to me when I was a kid.
我从来没有告诉过任何人这件事，这件事发生在我小时候。
I just held it all in and did my whole pretending like stuff didn't happen.
我只是忍住了一切，假装一切都没有发生。
And, you know, I don't know if that guy ever got away or ended up hurting other people because I never told anybody, never talked to anybody about it.
而且，你知道，我不知道那个人是否逃脱或最终伤害了其他人，因为我从未告诉过任何人，从未与任何人谈论过这件事。
But I didn't want this time to be like that.
但我不希望这次是这样。
I wanted to be able to try to talk about it and get it out.
我希望能够尝试谈论它并把它说出来。
So Marie was calling around.
所以玛丽四处打电话。
And later that day-- or maybe it was the next morning-- Peggy made a phone call of her own, to Shannon, the other main adult in Marie's life.
那天晚些时候——或者也许是第二天早上——佩吉自己给香农打了电话，香农是玛丽生活中的另一个主要成年人。
Here's Peggy.
这是佩吉。
I just said, I don't know what the hell is going on.
我只是说，我不知道到底发生了什么。
I can't tell, you know.
我不能说，你知道。
I was like, oh, my God.
我当时想，哦，天啊。
She's telling me that she got raped.
她告诉我她被强奸了。
But I felt-- I just felt horrible.
但我感觉——我只是感觉很可怕。
I felt horrible that I didn't believe her.
我因为不相信她而感到可怕。
And so I think Shannon must have just picked up on that.
所以我认为香农一定刚刚意识到了这一点。
And then she was like, Peggy, you're not the only one that doesn't believe her.
然后她说，佩吉，你不是唯一一个不相信她的人。
She's acting very strange.
她的行为很奇怪。
She's telling everybody about it.
她正在告诉每个人这件事。
She's calling everybody that she knows and telling them.
她打电话给她认识的每个人并告诉他们。
This doesn't seem like what you would do.
这看起来不像是你会做的事。
Shannon remembers that phone call with Peggy, too.
香农也记得和佩吉的那通电话。
Well, Peggy also didn't believe her.
好吧，佩吉也不相信她。
So looking back, we may have fed on each other's doubts about what had happened.
所以回想起来，我们可能因为彼此对所发生的事情而产生怀疑。
The day after the rape, Shannon helped Marie moved out of her apartment.
强奸发生后的第二天，香农帮助玛丽搬出了她的公寓。
Marie's case manager, who was helping her transition from foster care, was also there.
帮助玛丽从寄养家庭过渡的案件经理也在场。
And Shannon says that whole day, she kept noticing these things, little things, and each one deepened her suspicion.
香农说，一整天，她一直在注意到这些事情，一些小事情，每一件都加深了她的怀疑。
Marie wouldn't look her in the eye.
玛丽不肯看她的眼睛。
She wouldn't hug her.
她不会拥抱她。
She didn't want to talk about the rape.
她不想谈论强奸案。
Instead, she was giggling, rolling around on the grass, being flirty, as Shannon saw it, with the case manager.
相反，正如香农所见，她咯咯笑着，在草地上打滚，与案件经理调情。
For me, the thing that cemented my doubts was she was given, like, a Visa card to go pick out new sheets and bedding because the police had taken them for evidence.
对我来说，更让我怀疑的是，她得到了一张维萨卡，可以去挑选新的床单和床上用品，因为警方已将它们作为证据。
So we went back to the place where she had gotten the original ones.
所以我们回到了她拿到原来的东西的地方。
And she was furious that she couldn't buy the same set because she really liked it.
她很生气，因为她真的很喜欢，所以不能买同一套。
I'm thinking, why would you want to have the same sheets and bedspread to look at every day when you'd been raped on this bed set?
我在想，既然你在这套床上被强奸了，为什么还要每天看同样的床单和床罩呢？
I said, why would you want to have those sheets to remind you?
我说，你为什么要用那些单子来提醒你呢？
And she goes, because I like them.
她走了，因为我喜欢它们。
I just thought that was such a strange response.
我只是觉得这是一个很奇怪的反应。
That was the only time I saw her get mad the whole day.
那是我一整天唯一一次看到她生气。
Do you think you were starting to look for things that didn't ring true?
您是否认为您开始寻找听起来不真实的东西？
I don't know if I was looking for them.
我不知道我是否在寻找他们。
They just kept popping up.
他们只是不断出现。
I mean, flirting with the manager and rolling in the grass and giggling.
我的意思是，和经理调情，在草地上打滚，咯咯地笑。
Shannon confronted Marie about what she saw as her odd behavior.
香农质问玛丽，询问她的奇怪行为。
I did.
我做到了。
No, I told her that I had doubts about whether or not she was telling the truth.
不，我告诉她我怀疑她说的是不是实话。
And how did she react?
她的反应如何？
Shannon She would get upset.
香农 她会感到不安。
And she'd say, "you know, I'm not really a liar.
她会说：“你知道，我并不是一个真正的骗子。
Why would I lie about this thing?"
我为什么要在这件事上撒谎？”
Here's what I thought.
这就是我的想法。
Ken Armstrong Again, this is Peggy.
肯·阿姆斯特朗 再说一次，这是佩吉。
Peggy had her own theory for why Marie might be lying about this.
对于玛丽为何在这件事上撒谎，佩吉有她自己的理论。
I thought, OK.
我想，好吧。
In my mind, Marie got herself into trouble.
在我看来，玛丽给自己惹上了麻烦。
She got carried away with some kind of sexual encounter.
她因某种性接触而得意忘形。
And she let somebody take pictures of her.
她还让人给她拍照。
And now they're going to get out on the internet, and she's trying to backtrack.
现在他们要在互联网上公开，而她正试图撤回。
And maybe I didn't trust the police.
也许我不相信警察。
And maybe I didn't think they were understanding the nature of my daughter's personality, you know?
也许我认为他们没有理解我女儿性格的本质，你知道吗？
I mean, it's more histrionics, like a histrionic personality.
我的意思是，这更像是做作，就像做作的个性。
It seemed like her next tactic to try to get my attention.
这似乎是她试图引起我注意的下一个策略。
One day after the rape, Peggy called the lead detective on the case, Detective Jeffrey Mason.
强奸案发生一天后，佩吉打电话给该案的首席侦探杰弗里·梅森侦探。
She asked if she could meet with me in person.
她问是否可以亲自与我见面。
And so I agreed, went to her residence, met with her.
于是我就同意了，去她的住处，见了她。
She was having questions about the story that was being told, whether it was truthful or not.
她对正在讲述的故事有疑问，无论它是否真实。
She seemed, you know, sincere.
你知道，她看起来很真诚。
She was trying to pass on information that-- and maybe sincere is not the correct terminology.
她试图传递的信息——也许“真诚”并不是正确的术语。
But, I mean, she was just-- she expressed a lot of concern and caring for Marie but also had a lot of questions on whether she was reporting the truth or not.
但是，我的意思是，她只是——她表达了对玛丽的很多关心和关心，但也对她是否报道了真相有很多疑问。
Sergeant Mason didn't have a lot of experience investigating sexual assault.
梅森警官在调查性侵犯方面没有太多经验。
Marie's was only the second or third case that he'd worked on.
玛丽的案件只是他处理的第二个或第三个案件。
How much weight did you give Peggy's opinion of Marie's credibility or of the potential truthfulness of what Marie said had happened?
你对佩吉对玛丽的可信度或玛丽所说所发生的事情的潜在真实性的看法有多重视？
I gave it enough weight to steer the investigation to where I need to talk to Marie further.
我给予了足够的重视，以引导调查到我需要与玛丽进一步交谈的地方。
Was there anything that you were using that was evidence-based to get you to this moment of wanting to talk to her again about her credibility?
您是否使用过任何基于证据的东西让您想再次与她谈论她的可信度？
No. Ken Armstrong Sergeant Mason says there were a few other elements to Marie's story that had caused him to question her.
不。肯·阿姆斯特朗梅森中士说，玛丽的故事中还有其他一些因素导致他对她提出质疑。
But it was really the call from Peggy that changed everything.
但真正改变一切的是佩吉的电话。
He talks to his partner, and three days after the attack, Detective Mason calls Marie.
他与搭档交谈，袭击发生三天后，梅森侦探给玛丽打电话。
And they said they needed to see me.
他们说他们需要见我。
And I just-- all of a sudden, I was just like, am I in trouble?
我只是——突然之间，我就想，我有麻烦了吗？
That was my first-- before I said anything else on the phone.
这是我的第一次——然后我在电话里说了其他的话。
Am I in trouble?
我有麻烦了吗？
One of the first things she said was, "am I in trouble?" And that just-- well, in the 25 years in law enforcement, my experience has been people that ask that are usually in trouble.
她说的第一句话是：“我遇到麻烦了吗？”嗯，在 25 年的执法生涯中，我的经验是，提出询问的人通常会遇到麻烦。
They said, well, we just need you to come into the police station.
他们说，好吧，我们只需要你到警察局来。
Mason and his partner, Detective Jerry Rittgarn, took Marie back to a conference room to talk.
梅森和他的搭档杰里·里特加恩侦探带玛丽回到会议室谈话。
And it was a very different conversation from the first time police talked to Marie.
这与警察第一次与玛丽交谈时的谈话截然不同。
Now it was an interrogation.
现在是审讯。
She says the first thing they did was tell her they'd spoken to Peggy, and they'd spoken to her ex-boyfriend, Jordan, and neither of them believed her about being raped.
她说他们做的第一件事就是告诉她他们已经和佩吉谈过了，他们也和她的前男友乔丹谈过，但他们都不相信她被强奸了。
Peggy was one thing, but Jordan was a friend.
佩吉是一回事，但乔丹是朋友。
He and Marie spoke all the time.
他和玛丽一直在说话。
They talked about maybe getting back together.
他们谈到也许会复合。
And he'd been supportive and sympathetic about the rape.
他对强奸事件表示支持和同情。
Marie suddenly had to try and figure out what these detectives meant.
玛丽突然必须弄清楚这些侦探的意思。
The police were very closed off on telling me anything that Peggy or Jordan said.
警察非常不肯告诉我佩吉或乔丹所说的任何事情。
They wouldn't tell me anything that they said at all because he wanted me to tell him.
他们根本不会告诉我他们所说的任何事情，因为他想让我告诉他。
And I couldn't.
但我不能。
So he was just like, "yeah, is there any reason why he wouldn't believe you?" And I said, "I don't know."
所以他就像，“是的，他有什么理由不相信你吗？”我说：“我不知道。”
We talked to Jordan, and he says he never doubted Marie, and he never told the police he did.
我们和乔丹谈过，他说他从来没有怀疑过玛丽，而且他也从来没有告诉警察他怀疑过。
In any case, both detectives wrote in their reports that Marie seemed unsure of her story.
无论如何，两位侦探在他们的报告中都写道，玛丽似乎对她的故事并不确定。
Detective Rittgarn wrote that he found Marie to be making, quote, "deceptive statements to include that she thought certain things had happened rather than she was positive that this happened." Rittgarn noted that she didn't, quote, "take a stand and demand that she had been raped." Detectives made it clear to Marie they needed to be convinced.
里特加恩侦探写道，他发现玛丽正在做出“欺骗性的陈述，包括她认为某些事情已经发生，而不是她确信这件事发生了。”里特加恩指出，她没有“表明立场并要求她被强奸”。侦探们向玛丽明确表示，他们需要被说服。
Years later, there was an outside review of the case by a police investigator, a sex crime specialist named Sergeant Gregg Rinta.
几年后，一名名叫格雷格·林塔（Gregg Rinta）警长的性犯罪专家警方调查员对该案进行了外部审查。
His report said, quote, "The manner in which she was treated by Sergeant Mason and Detective Rittgarn can only be labeled as bullying and coercive." Detective Rittgarn declined to talk to us.
他的报告称，“梅森警官和里特加恩警探对待她的方式只能被贴上欺凌和胁迫的标签。”里特加恩警探拒绝与我们交谈。
Sergeant Rinta's review went on, quote, "If this hadn't been documented in their reports, I would have been skeptical that this actually happened." The victim's credibility, quote, "became the focus of the investigation, and all of the strong evidence that pointed to a serious felony crime was completely ignored." Here's Marie.
林塔中士继续评论道，“如果他们的报告中没有记录这件事，我会怀疑这是否真的发生过。”引用受害者的可信度“成为调查的焦点，所有指向严重重罪犯罪的有力证据都被完全忽视了。”这是玛丽。
Is there really some guy out there that we need to be looking for or did you just make this up?
我们真的需要寻找某个人吗？还是你编造的？
And they just started asking me all these questions and just grilling at me.
他们就开始问我所有这些问题并拷问我。
And I just started crying.
我就开始哭了。
I was crying, and I was upset.
我哭了，我很伤心。
I didn't understand what was going on, really.
我真的不明白发生了什么事。
I just-- I'm still in shock that they didn't believe me.
我只是——我仍然对他们不相信我感到震惊。
I was mad, too.
我也很生气。
I did pound my hand on the table and stuff like that.
我确实用手敲击桌子之类的。
And the only way they would leave me alone is if I wrote a statement saying that it didn't happen.
他们让我一个人呆着的唯一方法就是我写一份声明说这件事没有发生。
So she did.
所以她做到了。
She first wrote, quote, "I dreamed someone broke in and raped me." The detectives then insisted that she rewrite it, and not write that she had dreamed it but that she had lied.
她首先写道，“我梦见有人闯入并强奸了我。”然后侦探们坚持要她重写，不要写她梦见了，而是写她撒了谎。
There are lots of reasons a victim of sex abuse might consciously choose to say something different from what happened-- shame, fear of retribution.
性虐待的受害者可能有很多原因有意识地选择说出与所发生的事情不同的话——羞耻、害怕报复。
But Marie says that isn't what was happening with her.
但玛丽说她的情况并非如此。
She started having moments where she actually couldn't tell if she'd been raped.
她开始有时无法判断自己是否被强奸了。
Like, I was trying to be really honest about everything.
就像，我试图对一切都非常诚实。
And possibly maybe I had dreamt that stuff that first day, maybe I had dreamt it up and that it maybe didn't happen and stuff like that.
也许我第一天就梦见了那些东西，也许我梦见了它，但它可能没有发生，诸如此类的事情。
And so those doubts were coming out when I was talking to them.
所以当我和他们交谈时，这些疑虑就出来了。
And they just started disbelieving me even more.
他们开始更加不相信我。
And then all of a sudden, I just started thinking-- I was like, did this really just happen to me, this whole thing?
然后突然间，我开始思考——我想，这整件事真的只是发生在我身上吗？
In my mind, I was second-guessing somebody coming into my house and doing all this stuff, you know?
在我的脑海里，我在怀疑有人进入我的房子并做了所有这些事情，你知道吗？
Is it possible that I just imagined that?
难道这只是我的想象吗？
Because why would something like that happen to me?
因为为什么这样的事情会发生在我身上？
I ran how Marie describes this-- not being sure herself that the assault happened-- by an expert on sex assault trauma and how it affects the brain.
我读了一位研究性侵犯创伤及其如何影响大脑的专家的文章，玛丽是如何描述这一点的——她自己不确定性侵犯是否发生过。
She said that this kind of cognitive separation, she called it, while not common, does happen, that it's directly related to the sheer shock an assault has on a person-- like, for example, being awoken by a stranger with a knife-- and that people who have been sexually abused before, like Marie, are at a much higher risk for this happening.
她说，这种她称之为认知分离的现象虽然并不常见，但确实发生了，它与攻击对一个人造成的强烈震惊直接相关——比如，被一个拿着刀的陌生人吵醒——而且像玛丽这样以前遭受过性虐待的人发生这种情况的风险要高得多。
Add foster care to that and the risk is greater.
再加上寄养，风险就更大了。
At the end of that day, I was just like, fine.
那天结束时，我觉得，很好。
It all didn't happen because now I have nobody that believes me.
这一切都没有发生，因为现在没有人相信我了。
I just wanted it to be over with.
我只是想让这一切结束。
So--
所以——
So Marie did something familiar to her.
于是玛丽做了一些她熟悉的事情。
She has a way to deal with terrible things happening to her that are out of her control, what she calls flipping the switch.
她有一种方法来处理发生在她身上、超出她控制范围的可怕事情，她称之为“翻转开关”。
That feeling switch inside, just, I turned it to not really caring about the emotion and thought, well, I'll just turn off that switch.
内心的那种感觉开关，只是，我把它变成了不真正关心情感和想法，好吧，我会关掉那个开关。
And I won't have to deal with them right now.
而且我现在不需要和他们打交道。
Just, I want to get out of here.
只是，我想离开这里。
What does it look like when you kind of decide to flip the switch and stop caring so much?
当你决定打开开关并不再关心那么多时，会是什么样子？
What is that-- how does your demeanor change when you're speaking to the police officer?
那是什么——当你与警察交谈时，你的举止有何变化？
Well, I'm not crying anymore and looking at them when I'm talking to them.
好吧，当我和他们说话时，我不再哭了，也不再看着他们了。
I think I was giggling, which is something I do when I'm nervous, like I just pretended like that didn't just really happen, you know, and went in the bathroom after that and cleaned up and just kind of acted like it was fine.
我想我在咯咯地笑，这是我紧张时会做的事情，就像我只是假装那件事并没有真正发生，你知道，然后走进浴室清理干净，表现得好像一切都很好。
Both detectives noticed the switch.
两位侦探都注意到了这一转变。
Rittgarn wrote, quote, "Her visual appearance and body language became remarkably different.
里特加恩写道，“她的视觉外观和肢体语言变得非常不同。
She appeared less stressed, stopped crying, and even laughed a little." Marie wrote her final statement for the detectives at their insistence-- quote, "I made up this story," she wrote.
她看起来压力减轻了，不再哭泣，甚至还笑了一点。”玛丽在侦探们的坚持下为他们写下了最后的陈述——引用，“我编造了这个故事，”她写道。
King 5 News starts now.
King 5新闻现在开始。
Male News Anchor Good evening.
男新闻主播晚上好。
Your--
你的——
Police in Lynnwood now say a woman who claimed she was sexually assaulted by a stranger made up the story.
林伍德警方现在表示，一名声称自己遭到陌生人性侵犯的妇女编造了这个故事。
This news story ran one day after Marie met with detectives and wrote those statements.
这篇新闻报道是在玛丽会见侦探并写下这些声明的一天后发表的。
Earlier this week, the 18-year-old told detectives a man had broken into her apartment, raped her, and then stayed for an extended period of time.
本周早些时候，这位 18 岁的女孩告诉侦探，一名男子闯入她的公寓，强奸了她，然后在那里呆了很长一段时间。
But upon further questioning, the woman admitted the assault did not happen.
但在进一步询问后，该女子承认袭击事件并未发生。
Detectives do not know why she made the story up.
侦探们不知道她为何编造这个故事。
At least three other stations aired similar stories.
至少另外三个电视台也播出了类似的故事。
Reporters chased it.
记者追了上去。
Like, I had to hide.
就像，我不得不躲起来。
Like, I had to wear a sweatshirt over my face and sneak out of my apartment because there were just so many, just pounding on my door.
就像，我不得不穿一件运动衫遮住脸，然后偷偷溜出我的公寓，因为有太多人在敲我的门。
The backlash was immediate.
立即遭到强烈反对。
Marie got hate-filled Myspace messages, angry phone calls.
玛丽收到了充满仇恨的 Myspace 消息和愤怒的电话。
One of Marie's best friends from high school put up a website attacking Marie, warning people she was a liar.
玛丽高中时最好的朋友之一建立了一个攻击玛丽的网站，警告人们她是个骗子。
It had the police reports with the statement she'd written about making up the story.
里面有警方的报告和她写的关于编造故事的声明。
It had her name and her picture.
上面有她的名字和照片。
For Marie, it was too much.
对于玛丽来说，这太过分了。
Police didn't believe her.
警察不相信她。
Her foster moms didn't believe her.
她的养母不相信她。
And it was all over the news.
这件事充斥着新闻。
It felt like the world had turned against her.
感觉就像全世界都在反对她。
And remember, she was 18 years old, trying to figure this out.
请记住，她当时 18 岁，正试图解决这个问题。
She wanted a lawyer.
她想要一名律师。
And she had a support system that could have helped her find one.
她有一个支持系统可以帮助她找到一个。
She lived in her own apartment, but it was subsidized by a nonprofit that helped teenagers like Marie transition out of foster care.
她住在自己的公寓里，但它得到了一家非营利组织的补贴，该非营利组织帮助像玛丽这样的青少年摆脱寄养。
Project Ladder, it was called.
它被称为“阶梯计划”。
They taught life skills like how to use a credit card, how to shop for groceries.
他们教授生活技能，例如如何使用信用卡、如何购买杂货。
They were there to give her a hand.
他们在那里为她提供帮助。
So she asked them to help her find a lawyer.
于是她请求他们帮她找律师。
Instead, her case manager called the police, who told him there was no evidence that a rape had occurred.
相反，她的案件经理报了警，警方告诉他没有证据表明发生了强奸。
They did not get her a lawyer.
他们没有给她找律师。
So then they said, OK.
然后他们说，好吧。
Well, we're going to go to the police station.
嗯，我们要去警察局。
You're going to tell them that.
你要告诉他们这一点。
You're going to tell them that it really did happen.
你要告诉他们这确实发生了。
You're going to be honest.
你会说实话的。
When they got to the station, Detective Mason, the lead detective in her case, wasn't there.
当他们到达车站时，负责她案件的首席侦探梅森侦探并不在那里。
He was out that day.
那天他出去了。
So detective Rittgarn grabbed another cop to help out.
于是，里特加恩侦探找了另一名警察来帮忙。
Here's Marie.
这是玛丽。
I told him that I wanted to recant and that it really did happen.
我告诉他我想放弃信仰，而且这确实发生了。
They should be out there looking for a rapist.
他们应该出去寻找强奸犯。
Rittgarn didn't believe her.
里特加恩不相信她。
The other cop didn't know the case and was just following Rittgarn's lead.
另一名警察并不知道这个案子，只是在追随里特加恩的脚步。
Marie says one of the detectives told her that if she kept insisting she was raped, she might have to take a polygraph test.
玛丽说，其中一名侦探告诉她，如果她一直坚称自己被强奸了，她可能需要接受测谎仪测试。
He told me that if I took a lie detector test and it came back that I was lying, that he was going to take me to jail himself.
他告诉我，如果我接受测谎仪测试，结果表明我在撒谎，他就会亲自把我送进监狱。
Using a polygraph on a rape victim is a mistake, a big enough one that the federal government can withhold money from states if their police departments do it.
对强奸受害者使用测谎仪是一种错误，这种错误足够严重，如果各州的警察部门这样做，联邦政府可以扣留各州的资金。
The tests are seen as a deterrent to women coming forward to report sexual assault.
这些测试被视为对举报性侵犯的女性的一种威慑。
Plus, they're famously unreliable, especially on someone who's traumatized.
另外，众所周知，它们是不可靠的，尤其是对于受过创伤的人来说。
Rittgarn's report says it was actually Marie who brought up the polygraph, not the cops.
里特加恩的报告称，实际上是玛丽提出了测谎仪，而不是警察。
But what's not in dispute is that once the idea of a polygraph came up, Detective Rittgarn used it to threaten Marie.
但毫无争议的是，一旦测谎仪的想法出现，里特加恩侦探就用它来威胁玛丽。
It's a tactic police use when they're interrogating someone they suspect in a crime.
这是警察审问犯罪嫌疑人时使用的策略。
Detective Rittgarn told Marie that if she failed the polygraph, he'd recommend she lose her housing assistance and get jail time.
里特加恩侦探告诉玛丽，如果她未通过测谎仪测试，他会建议她失去住房援助并入狱。
Well, that scared me, so I didn't want to do that.
好吧，这让我害怕，所以我不想这样做。
And so I was like, OK, never mind.
所以我就想，好吧，没关系。
It really didn't happen.
这真的没有发生。
I didn't want to go to jail.
我不想进监狱。
That night, the Project Ladder managers called a meeting.
那天晚上，项目阶梯经理召开了一次会议。
It was just an emergency meeting.
这只是一次紧急会议。
And they didn't tell anybody why until everybody got there.
他们没有告诉任何人原因，直到每个人都到达那里。
This is Elisabeth, another former foster kid in the Project Ladder program.
这是伊丽莎白，阶梯计划计划中的另一位前寄养孩子。
She was there at the meeting, along with nine or so others, mostly girls, and the program managers, sitting in chairs in a circle.
她出席了会议，与其他九个人（其中大部分是女孩）以及项目经理一起坐在椅子上，围成一圈。
Marie remembers it as the lowest moment of this whole ordeal, the one time she thought about suicide.
玛丽记得那是整个磨难中最低谷的时刻，她有一次想过自杀。
Again, here's Elisabeth.
再说一次，这是伊丽莎白。
Marie stood up.
玛丽站了起来。
And she was crying.
她在哭。
And she said that she had lied about what had happened.
她说她对所发生的事情撒了谎。
To the group?
到团体？
Elisabeth To the group.
伊丽莎白 到小组。
Yeah, everybody.
是的，大家。
I mean, it just felt like she was just forced to say that and that it was-- I mean, there was nothing in her words or actions that she meant.
我的意思是，感觉她只是被迫这么说，而且——我的意思是，她的言语或行为中没有任何意思。
I mean, it was more of defeat is what it sounded like, just kind of giving up on trying to prove herself.
我的意思是，听起来更像是失败，只是放弃了证明自己的尝试。
She just seemed devastated and lost.
她似乎只是感到沮丧和失落。
It actually sounds really confusing from your perspective.
从你的角度来看，这实际上听起来很令人困惑。
Were you wondering, why is she being made to say this?
你是否想知道，为什么她要说出这样的话？
I mean, I really was because I didn't know her.
我的意思是，我真的是因为我不认识她。
And at first, I didn't really know what to believe.
起初，我真的不知道该相信什么。
You know, it's just kind of an odd thing to say, "oh, well I made it up." I think maybe my own personal experiences kind of came through when she said that.
你知道，说“哦，好吧，我编的”有点奇怪。我想也许当她这么说时，我自己的个人经历就体现出来了。
And I kind of--
我有点——
I've-- I was sexually assaulted.
我——我遭到了性侵犯。
And so, I mean, being afraid of saying anything, and then not having anybody to believe you, and then just kind of trying to forget about it, I guess, trying to--
所以，我的意思是，害怕说出任何话，然后没有人相信你，然后只是试图忘记它，我想，试图——
Move on.
继续前进。
Yeah.
是的。
Robyn Semien Elisabeth felt for Marie.
罗宾·塞米恩·伊丽莎白同情玛丽。
She says there were a couple others who looked like they did, too.
她说还有另外几个人看起来也像他们一样。
But they were in the minority.
但他们只是少数。
Mainly, Marie says, people were angry.
玛丽说，主要是人们感到愤怒。
They were pretty mad about it.
他们对此非常生气。
One of the girls, she was calling me and making threats at me, thought I was a liar and basically mentally ill for making up something like that.
其中一个女孩打电话给我并威胁我，她认为我是个骗子，而且因为编造了类似的事情而基本上患有精神疾病。
I spoke to one of the meeting's angry girls.
我和会议上一位愤怒的女孩交谈过。
She didn't want to be interviewed, but she told me she thought Marie had lied, and it did make her mad.
她不想接受采访，但她告诉我她认为玛丽撒了谎，这确实让她生气了。
But she also said-- and Elisabeth told me this, too-- there was something so obvious and transparent about the premise of the meeting.
但她也说——伊丽莎白也告诉了我这一点——会议的前提有一些非常明显和透明的东西。
It was a message to everyone-- we're making her tell you this so none of you think about doing it.
这是向所有人传达的信息——我们让她告诉你们这些，这样你们就不会考虑这样做。
If you do, you'll lose your housing.
如果你这样做，你将失去你的住房。
Elisabeth described the woman running the meeting as fuming.
伊丽莎白形容主持会议的那位女士非常生气。
We reached out to the Project Ladder managers, but they never replied.
我们联系了项目阶梯经理，但他们从未回复。
Elisabeth stuck by Marie, and one other friend.
伊丽莎白和玛丽以及另一位朋友在一起。
Friend-wise, that was about it.
朋友方面，就是这样。
Elisabeth says Marie was avoided like--
伊丽莎白说玛丽被回避了，就像——
The plague.
瘟疫。
Yeah.
是的。
I mean, that's exactly how it was.
我的意思是，事情就是这样。
People treated her like she was-- they couldn't get far enough away from her.
人们对待她就像对待她一样——他们离她太远了。
And people, they were very cruel to her.
而人们，他们对她非常残忍。
Of course, the phone calls and the nasty stuff on social media.
当然，还有电话和社交媒体上的肮脏内容。
I mean, I even believe, like, when we'd walk through the parking lot or we'd go somewhere, somebody would say something, calling her a whore, and die, and just a lot of really horrible stuff.
我的意思是，我什至相信，当我们穿过停车场或去某个地方时，有人会说些什么，称她为妓女，然后就死了，还有很多非常可怕的事情。
I mean, I even remember reading one of the comments on the-- it was on the internet, but I don't remember what exactly page it was or anything.
我的意思是，我什至记得读过一条评论——它是在互联网上的，但我不记得它到底是什么页面或任何东西。
"But this bitch is the reason that nobody believes when women say they get raped."
“但是这个婊子就是当女性说她们被强奸时没人相信的原因。”
Wow.
哇。
Elisabeth Yeah.
伊丽莎白 是的。
I mean, there was a lot of that.
我的意思是，这样的事有很多。
Even Shannon, who meant the world to Marie.
甚至香农，她对玛丽来说意味着整个世界。
She told Marie that she couldn't spend the night at her house anymore because her husband worried she might make up a story about him.
她告诉玛丽，她不能再在她家过夜，因为她的丈夫担心她可能编造一个关于他的故事。
And if all that weren't enough, about a week later, Marie received a summons in the mail.
如果这还不够，大约一周后，玛丽收到了一封邮寄的传票。
Police were charging her with false reporting.
警方指控她虚假举报。
The false reporting charge meant that Marie's rape case would be officially closed.
虚假举报指控意味着玛丽的强奸案将正式结案。
The physical evidence police had gathered at the scene was destroyed except for a single fingerprint card that was left behind.
警方在现场收集的物证均被销毁，仅留下一张指纹卡。
Everything else-- the rape kit, the bedding, the DNA swabs-- they were never even tested in a crime lab, never analyzed.
其他一切——强奸工具包、床上用品、DNA 拭子——甚至从未在犯罪实验室进行过测试，也从未进行过分析。
Further evidence that could have been gathered never was.
本来可以收集到的进一步证据却从未收集到。
Two months after Marie was charged with false reporting, Shannon was sitting at home, watching the local news with her husband, when on came a story about a woman in Kirkland, another Seattle suburb, who reported being raped by a stranger who broke in, threatened her with a knife, used shoelaces to tie her up, and who took pictures and threatened to post them on the internet.
玛丽被控虚假报道两个月后，香农正坐在家里和丈夫一起看当地新闻，这时传来了西雅图另一个郊区柯克兰一名妇女的故事，她报告称自己被一名闯入的陌生人强奸，这名陌生人用刀威胁她，用鞋带将她绑起来，并拍照并威胁将其发布到互联网上。
Right away, I thought, I'm wrong.
我立刻想，我错了。
It actually happened.
它确实发生了。
She was raped because this is too similar.
她被强奸是因为这太相似了。
So I immediately went in and called the Kirkland Police Department and asked to speak to the lead detective on the rape case.
所以我立即进去给柯克兰警察局打电话，要求与强奸案的首席侦探交谈。
And I explained the whole situation about what had happened to Marie and that the Lynnwood police didn't believe her.
我向她解释了发生在玛丽身上的整个情况，但林伍德警方并不相信她。
But it was just too similar, and it had just happened.
但实在是太相似了，而且还刚刚发生过。
So I asked them to call the Lynnwood police.
所以我让他们打电话给林伍德警察局。
Then he got back to me and said he did talk to them, but they had determined that she had made the whole thing up, and the case was closed.
然后他回复我说他确实和他们谈过，但他们确定整个事情都是她编造的，案子就结了。
And that was the end.
一切就这样结束了。
And it was over.
一切都结束了。
I talked to the lead detective that Shannon spoke to and to another Kirkland detective on this case.
我与香农交谈过的首席侦探以及另一位柯克兰侦探就此案进行了交谈。
Both remember talking to the Lynnwood PD.
两人都记得与林伍德警察局交谈过。
But when they learned the Lynnwood police didn't believe their victim, that was it.
但当他们得知林伍德警方不相信受害者时，事情就这样了。
They didn't look any further.
他们没有再看下去。
One detective said she figured the Lynnwood police knew their case best.
一名侦探表示，她认为林伍德警方最了解他们的案件。
She trusted their judgment.
她相信他们的判断。
Even so, one thing they both told me they were surprised by was that the Lynnwood police had gone so far as to charge Marie with false reporting.
即便如此，他们都告诉我令他们感到惊讶的一件事是林伍德警方竟然以虚假报告的罪名指控玛丽。
One detective remembers hanging up the phone thinking, OK.
一位侦探记得挂断电话时心想，好吧。
Hope that works out for you guys.
希望这对你们有用。
Shannon grew up in a police family.
香农在警察家庭长大。
She usually figured police knew best.
她通常认为警察最了解情况。
Not this time.
这次不是。
I was upset.
我很沮丧。
I thought there should have been more investigation, that it was just too similar.
我认为应该进行更多调查，因为它太相似了。
Shannon thought something had to be done.
香农认为必须做点什么。
She thought Marie should get in touch with the Kirkland police herself.
她认为玛丽应该亲自与柯克兰警方取得联系。
She told Marie--
她告诉玛丽——
If it did happen, then here's a second chance to go talk to the police about what happened to you because this just happened to another woman.
如果确实发生了，那么这是第二次机会去与警察谈论发生在你身上的事情，因为这刚刚发生在另一个女人身上。
But she wouldn't go.
但她不肯去。
And so that, then, made me doubt again.
于是，这又让我产生了怀疑。
Why wouldn't she want to get involved to try and prove that she was innocent?
她为什么不愿意介入并证明自己是无辜的呢？
Marie didn't want to talk to anybody else about the rape, especially not police again.
玛丽不想和其他人谈论强奸案，尤其是不想再和警察谈论。
The very thought terrified her.
这个想法让她感到害怕。
What she wanted, more than anything, was to put this behind her.
她最想要的就是把这一切抛在脑后。
In March of 2009, seven months after she was raped, Marie went to court to accept a plea deal on her false reporting charge.
2009 年 3 月，即玛丽被强奸七个月后，她上法庭接受关于虚假举报指控的认罪协议。
Under the deal, to get the charge dropped, she would need to meet certain conditions for a year.
根据协议，要撤销指控，她需要在一年内满足某些条件。
She'd go on supervised probation, pay $500 in court costs, and she'd get mental health counseling, not for being raped but for lying about it.
她将接受监督缓刑，支付 500 美元的法庭费用，并接受心理健康咨询，不是因为被强奸，而是因为在这件事上撒了谎。
Coming up-- today's program is about two police investigations of the same crime.
即将播出——今天的节目是关于两名警方对同一犯罪案件的调查。
The second investigation, where the police do a stunningly great job, in a minute, when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，警察在一分钟内完成了第二次调查，工作非常出色。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, "Anatomy of Doubt." We have the story of two criminal investigations.
今天的节目“怀疑的剖析”。我们有两起刑事调查的故事。
One goes great, one goes about as badly as it possibly could.
一种进展顺利，另一种则尽可能糟糕。
We now turn to the successful investigation.
我们现在转向成功的调查。
It happens in a suburb of Denver called Golden, Colorado.
事情发生在丹佛郊区科罗拉多州戈尔登。
The lead detectives in this second case were very experienced, versus the lead detective in the first case, who only had done one or two other rape cases.
第二起案件的首席侦探经验丰富，而第一个案件的首席侦探只处理过一两起强奸案。
This was stated earlier, but I'll just repeat it here-- the content of today's program probably isn't right for little kids.
前面已经说过了，这里再重复一遍——今天的节目内容可能不适合小孩子。
Here are Ken Armstrong and Robyn Semien.
这是肯·阿姆斯特朗和罗宾·塞米恩。
Two years later-- January, 2011-- Detective Stacy Galbraith got a case.
两年后，即 2011 年 1 月，史黛西·加尔布雷思侦探接到了一个案子。
A grad student, mid-20s, had been sexually assaulted in her home, raped at gunpoint.
一名 20 多岁的研究生在家中遭到性侵犯，并被持枪强奸。
To cover his tracks, her attacker took her sheets with him and made her shower to wash off any DNA.
为了掩盖自己的踪迹，袭击者带走了她的床单，并给她洗澡以洗掉任何DNA。
And when she went to interview the victim, Detective Galbraith says, the victim remembered an unusual number of details about the guy, way more than any other rape victim she'd talked to before.
加尔布雷斯警探说，当她去采访受害者时，受害者记住了有关该男子的异常多的细节，比她之前交谈过的任何其他强奸受害者都多。
The victim had basically chatted him up, and he told her things, like he spoke four different languages.
受害者基本上是在和他聊天，他告诉她一些事情，就像他会说四种不同的语言一样。
And she was able to kind of rattle off a few of those.
她能够一口气说出其中的一些内容。
He traveled a lot.
他经常旅行。
He talked about math.
他谈到了数学。
He told her that he has no problem with finding girlfriends or having girlfriends.
他告诉她，他找女朋友、有女朋友都没有问题。
But he just doesn't like the consensual aspect of the girlfriend relationship.
但他只是不喜欢女朋友关系中双方同意的方面。
The victim had a good guess of his height and weight and knew that he had a distinct mark on his leg-- a birthmark, she told Detective Galbraith, the size and shape of an egg.
受害人很好地猜测了他的身高和体重，并知道他的腿上有一个明显的标记——她告诉加尔布雷思侦探，这是一个胎记，大小和形状就像鸡蛋一样。
He'd had a camera with him, and she remembered the color and brand of the camera.
他随身带着相机，她记得相机的颜色和品牌。
Detective Galbraith noted that the victim wasn't crying.
加尔布雷斯侦探注意到受害者没有哭。
She didn't seem upset.
她看上去并没有感到不安。
She was very kind of stoic in her report of this incident.
她在报告这起事件时显得非常坚忍。
I mean, you could even say she had more of a flat affect, actually.
我的意思是，实际上，你甚至可以说她的情感更加平淡。
Very unusual.
很不寻常。
Typically, I mean, I encounter somebody, say, in the hospital or on a scene that's crying, upset, much more, I would say, visibly traumatized than this victim was.
通常情况下，我的意思是，我在医院或在某个场景中遇到一个人，他在哭泣、心烦意乱，我想说，他明显比受害者受到了更多的创伤。
She talked about this guy and the horrible-- my word is horrible-- things that he did to her for a number of hours.
她谈到了这个家伙，以及他在几个小时内对她所做的可怕的事情——我的话很可怕。
And in relation to other victims, they probably would have said horrible.
相对于其他受害者，他们可能会说太可怕了。
They would have been revealing the horrible side of the things that they'd done.
他们会揭露他们所做的事情的可怕的一面。
She-- I remember we were walking outside for some reason.
她——我记得我们出于某种原因走到外面。
I don't know why we were outside.
我不知道我们为什么在外面。
And she was talking about that he was a gentleman, calm, mild mannered.
她说他是一位绅士，冷静，举止温和。
And I just remember just thinking, how can anyone, after this happened, call this person a gentleman?
我只记得我当时在想，发生这件事之后，怎么会有人称这个人为绅士呢？
Detective Galbraith at this point had worked dozens of rape cases, maybe 50.
加尔布雷思警探此时已侦查过数十起强奸案，也许有 50 起。
She admitted she didn't totally get her victim but that it didn't get in the way of her investigating the crime.
她承认她并没有完全理解受害者的意思，但这并没有妨碍她调查犯罪行为。
Detective Galbraith talked to her husband about the case that night.
那天晚上，加尔布雷思警探与她的丈夫谈论了这个案子。
And her husband, a police officer in another town, remembered a case just like it in his department in Westminster.
她的丈夫是另一个城镇的一名警察，他记得在威斯敏斯特的部门里也发生过类似的案件。
So Detective Galbraith contacted Westminster PD the next morning to look at their case file-- details almost identical.
因此，加尔布雷思侦探第二天早上联系了威斯敏斯特警察局，查看他们的案件档案——细节几乎相同。
The lead detective on that case, Edna Hendershot, says there was one striking connection.
该案的首席侦探埃德娜·亨德肖特 (Edna Hendershot) 表示，其中有一个惊人的联系。
In my assault, my victim was the victim of a theft, also, of a pink Sony Cyber-shot camera that was stolen from her.
在我的袭击中，我的受害者也是被盗的受害者，她的一台粉色索尼 Cyber-shot 相机也被盗。
And Stacy knew that her victim was photographed using a pink Sony Cyber-shot camera.
史黛西知道她的受害者是用粉色索尼 Cyber-shot 相机拍摄的。
Detective Hendershot also said there was a third rape in another town nearby, which made them think there could be a serial offender.
亨德肖特侦探还表示，附近的另一个城镇发生了第三起强奸案，这让他们认为可能存在连环犯罪者。
The three departments did something that doesn't always happen with different police departments-- they started meeting, working together.
这三个部门做了一些不同警察部门并不总是发生的事情——他们开始开会、一起工作。
Each department had come up with some kind of trace DNA associated with their victims, not the definitive kind that can positively ID a suspect, but not nothing, either.
每个部门都找到了某种与受害者相关的痕迹DNA，虽然不是能够确定嫌疑人身份的明确DNA，但也不是什么都没有。
The samples were tested for similarities, and the results showed that they were connected paternally, meaning the three DNA samples had to be the same guy or men in the same family.
对这些样本进行了相似性测试，结果显示它们具有父系联系，这意味着这三个 DNA 样本必须是同一个人或同一家庭的男性。
About five weeks into Detective Stacy Galbraith's investigation, there's a big meeting.
史黛西·加尔布雷斯警探的调查进行了大约五周后，召开了一次大型会议。
Federal, state, and local investigators are there, and a fourth local department, too.
联邦、州和地方调查人员都在那里，还有第四个地方部门。
And in that meeting, someone new to the group, a female crime analyst, stands up.
在那次会议上，该组织的新成员，一位女性犯罪分析师站了起来。
She'd done a search for suspicious vehicles in the vicinity of an attempted rape.
她在强奸未遂案附近搜寻了可疑车辆。
Detective Hendershot says at the very end of the meeting--
亨德肖特警探在会议结束时说道——
She happens to mention, just so the group knows, I came across this Mazda truck that was near this crime scene, just so the group knows.
她碰巧提到，为了让大家知道，我在犯罪现场附近发现了一辆马自达卡车，为了让大家知道。
Well, when Stacy hears that, Stacy is like, wait a second.
好吧，当史黛西听到这个消息时，史黛西就像，等一下。
What did you say?
你说什么？
I tell them-- I said, that's a truck on our surveillance video that wasn't very relevant until right now.
我告诉他们——我说，那是我们监控视频中的一辆卡车，直到现在还不太相关。
It just all came together, one second.
就在这一秒，一切都发生了。
It was just a [SNAPS].
这只是一个[快照]。
Detective Stacy Galbraith had only seen the truck on a fuzzy surveillance video.
史黛西·加尔布雷斯侦探只在模糊的监控视频中看到了这辆卡车。
But this analyst had the make, model, and license plate.
但这位分析师知道品牌、型号和车牌。
It was registered to a guy named Marc O'Leary.
它的注册人是一个名叫马克·奥利里 (Marc O'Leary) 的人。
Detective Hendershot, always reluctant to get too ahead of herself, remembers thinking--
亨德肖特警探总是不愿意太过超前，她记得当时想——
Wow, that's a pretty big piece of evidence, potentially.
哇，这可能是一个相当大的证据。
What they needed now was a DNA sample from Marc O'Leary to see if it tied him to the crimes.
他们现在需要的是马克·奥利里 (Marc O'Leary) 的 DNA 样本，以确定他是否与犯罪行为有关。
So FBI agents stake out Marc's house.
因此，联邦调查局特工监视了马克的房子。
The plan was to wait for him to leave, then they'd split up, have a few agents follow him while others put up surveillance cameras outside his house while he was gone.
计划是等他离开，然后他们分开，让一些特工跟踪他，而其他特工则在他离开时在他的房子外面安装监控摄像头。
When Marc leaves his house, agents trail him.
当马克离开家时，特工跟踪了他。
But what they didn't know is that Marc O'Leary had a brother who lived with him in the same house.
但他们不知道的是，马克·奥利里有一个和他住在同一栋房子里的兄弟。
So the guy they were following wasn't Marc at all but his slightly younger, similar-looking brother.
所以他们跟踪的人根本不是马克，而是他稍微年轻、长相相似的弟弟。
So when other agents go to the apartment and knock on the door expecting it to be empty, they're shocked when Marc answers.
因此，当其他特工来到公寓敲门，以为里面是空的时，当马克回答时，他们感到震惊。
The agents think quickly, say they're informing people in the neighborhood about a burglar.
特工们反应迅速，说他们正在向附近的人们通报有窃贼的情况。
They even have a flyer with a phony suspect photo to show him.
他们甚至还放了一张传单，上面有一张假嫌疑犯的照片给他看。
The conversation ends.
谈话结束。
Marc goes inside.
马克走进去。
Meanwhile, Marc's brother is eating in a diner.
与此同时，马克的兄弟正在一家小餐馆吃饭。
And when he's done, agents swoop in to get DNA off his glass, which brings them closer to their answer but still not all the way there because while DNA from the brother does link the brothers' family line to the crimes, it does not tell them which brother committed them.
当他完成后，特工们突然冲进去，从他的玻璃上提取DNA，这让他们更接近答案，但仍然没有完全实现，因为虽然兄弟的DNA确实将兄弟的家族血统与犯罪联系起来，但它并没有告诉他们是哪一个兄弟犯了罪。
Here's Detective Galbraith.
这是加尔布雷思侦探。
So at this point, we're like, crap.
所以在这一点上，我们就像，废话。
It could be either one, really.
确实，可能是其中之一。
We need to see the leg of both of them--
我们需要看看他们俩的腿——
For a birthmark.
为了胎记。
They need to see that birthmark.
他们需要看到那个胎记。
Two days later, Detective Galbraith and her team go to Marc's house.
两天后，加尔布雷思侦探和她的团队来到了马克的家。
And Marc comes to the door.
马克来到门口。
And we have weapons out.
我们已经拿出武器了。
And I tell him that we have a search warrant for the house.
我告诉他我们有对房子的搜查令。
And I pat him down to make sure he doesn't have any weapons.
我拍了拍他以确保他没有携带任何武器。
He's got real baggy clothes on when he comes out.
当他出来时，他穿着真正宽松的衣服。
And so when I'm patting him down, I lifted up both pant legs, and I saw the mark.
所以当我拍拍他时，我抬起两条裤腿，然后我看到了标记。
He's the guy.
他就是那个人。
He needed to be in handcuffs.
他需要戴上手铐。
He was very surprised.
他很惊讶。
He went almost blue.
他几乎脸色发青。
She arrested him.
她逮捕了他。
Galbraith says it's the most satisfying case she ever worked on.
加尔布雷思说这是她处理过的最令人满意的案件。
When the police searched the house, they found shoelaces and other bindings, lock-picking tools, a gun, the pink Sony camera, and, stowed away in the back of an amplifier, underwear he'd collected from his victims.
当警察搜查房子时，他们发现了鞋带和其他绑带、开锁工具、一把枪、粉色索尼相机，以及藏在扩音器后面的他从受害者那里收集到的内衣。
Also, computers, hard drives, thumb drives, media cards, which produced hundreds of images, photos of victims.
此外，电脑、硬盘、拇指驱动器、媒体卡也产生了数百张受害者的图像和照片。
Detective Galbraith went through them all.
加尔布雷思侦探把所有这些都检查了一遍。
There are pictures of women from the towns in Colorado and--
有科罗拉多州城镇妇女的照片——
A picture of another woman with a Washington driver's license on her chest that was gagged and bound.
另一张妇女的照片，她胸前挂着华盛顿驾照，嘴巴被堵住并被捆绑。
It was Marie.
是玛丽。
Stacy Galbraith I'm thinking, thank God.
史黛西·加尔布雷思 我在想，感谢上帝。
I don't have just an unknown victim here that I may never know who she is.
我这里不仅仅是一个未知的受害者，我可能永远不知道她是谁。
I know who this is.
我知道这是谁。
Well, I mean, I'm thinking he probably did that as a form of intimidation to her-- I know who you are.
嗯，我的意思是，我想他这样做可能是为了恐吓她——我知道你是谁。
I'll have your name and your address.
我会知道你的名字和地址。
But it helped us, actually.
但实际上它对我们有帮助。
Detective Galbraith contacted the Lynnwood PD hoping to wrap up their case.
加尔布雷斯警探联系了林伍德警察局，希望能够结束他们的案件。
She had the case file faxed to her.
她把案件卷宗传真给了她。
But what she remembers is the cover page of that fax, which read "false reporting."
但她记得的是那份传真的封面，上面写着“虚假报道”。
My heart sunk, and I was shocked.
我的心一沉，心中震惊。
I was like, oh, cussword, because I knew that was wrong.
我当时想，哦，咒骂，因为我知道那是错误的。
After police filed their false reporting charge against Marie, Marc O'Leary went on to rape at least four other women-- the three women in Colorado plus the woman he raped in the Seattle suburb near Marie.
在警方对玛丽提出虚假举报指控后，马克·奥利里继续强奸了至少四名其他妇女——科罗拉多州的三名妇女以及他在玛丽附近的西雅图郊区强奸的一名妇女。
He pleaded guilty to five rapes and over 20 other felonies.
他承认了 5 项强奸罪和 20 多项其他重罪。
He was sentenced to over 300 years in prison.
他被判处 300 多年监禁。
In a post-sentencing interview with police, he admitted stalking victims over time, sometimes breaking and entering in the weeks before an attack to plan and make sure a woman was living by herself and didn't have a dog.
在判刑后接受警方采访时，他承认随着时间的推移，他会跟踪受害者，有时会在袭击发生前几周破门而入，以计划并确保一名妇女独自生活并且没有养狗。
He also said he knew police departments weren't great at talking to one another.
他还表示，他知道警察部门不擅长相互交谈。
So he planned his attacks, deliberately, in different cities.
所以他故意在不同的城市策划袭击。
In March, 2011, two years after Marie took a plea deal for filing a false police report, she got a visit from the head of the Lynnwood PD's criminal investigations division, Commander Steve Rider.
2011 年 3 月，玛丽因向警方提交虚假报告而达成认罪协议两年后，林伍德警察局刑事调查部门负责人史蒂夫·莱德 (Steve Rider) 指挥官拜访了她。
We were invited in, told Marie who we were.
我们被邀请进来，告诉玛丽我们是谁。
They asked if I had somewhere quiet they could talk to me.
他们问我是否有安静的地方可以和我说话。
And I just remember not knowing what I'm going to say.
我只记得我不知道我要说什么。
As much as I thought about this moment, I don't know how to say this.
想到这一刻，我不知道该怎么说。
I don't even remember the words I used.
我什至不记得我用过的词。
They said they found the guy.
他们说他们找到了那个人。
They have this little piece of evidence.
他们有这个小证据。
They said that they had found a picture.
他们说他们找到了一张照片。
And the picture they found was of my ID.
他们发现的照片是我的身份证。
And I just broke down.
我崩溃了。
They paid me back the $500 and told me that they were going to get my record expunged.
他们退还了我 500 美元，并告诉我他们将删除我的记录。
She just looked stunned, and we were stunned.
她看上去很震惊，我们也很震惊。
And it was hard.
这很难。
I didn't really say much after that.
之后我并没有说太多。
I just-- I didn't really have much to say after they told me that.
在他们告诉我这些之后，我真的没什么可说的。
They were just like, we're sorry.
他们只是说，我们很抱歉。
We're deeply sorry, you know, about what had happened to you.
你知道，我们对发生在你身上的事情深感抱歉。
But it didn't mean much to me at all.
但这对我来说根本没有多大意义。
Sergeant Jeffrey Mason, the lead detective in the case, hadn't thought about Marie's case in years.
该案的首席侦探杰弗里·梅森中士已经很多年没有考虑过玛丽的案子了。
He was sure she'd lied, so he just moved on.
他确信她撒了谎，所以他就继续前进。
And then he got a phone call telling him that a serial rapist had been arrested in Colorado, that Marie had been raped by this man, that Marie had been telling the truth.
然后他接到一个电话，告诉他一名连环强奸犯在科罗拉多州被捕，玛丽被这个男人强奸了，玛丽说的是实话。
Yeah, I was-- I was driving to my office.
是的，我正在开车去我的办公室。
It's one of those times that you're not going to forget.
这是您不会忘记的时刻之一。
It was so shocking that this has been the one thing where I seriously step back and question if I should continue doing what I'm doing.
太令人震惊了，这是我认真退后一步并质疑我是否应该继续做我正在做的事情的一件事。
Marie requested a personal apology from Mason, and she got one in the same police station where two and a half years before she had been interrogated as a criminal suspect instead of treated as a rape victim.
玛丽要求梅森做出个人道歉，两年半前，她在同一个警察局被当作犯罪嫌疑人审问，而不是被当作强奸受害者对待。
Marie says he seemed sincere and ashamed.
玛丽说他看起来很真诚，但也很羞愧。
He rubbed his head.
他揉了揉头。
He looked like a lost little puppy, is how she puts it.
用她的话说，他看起来就像一只迷路的小狗。
And then there were Shannon and Peggy, the two adults who mattered the most to Marie as a teenager.
然后是香农和佩吉，这两个成年人对十几岁的玛丽来说最重要。
They are both still in her life today.
他们今天仍然存在于她的生活中。
This is Shannon.
这是香农。
It was very complicated.
这非常复杂。
Knowing they'd caught him, at the same moment knowing that it had actually happened, that she was actually raped.
知道他们抓住了他，同时也知道这件事确实发生了，她实际上被强奸了。
And nobody believed her, especially the people in her life that had been supporting her and had been taking care of her and trying to mentor her and help her.
没有人相信她，尤其是她生命中那些一直支持她、照顾她、试图指导她、帮助她的人。
And we didn't believe her.
我们不相信她。
And so I told her that I didn't want to say I was sorry over the phone, that I wanted to do it in person.
所以我告诉她我不想在电话里说抱歉，我想当面道歉。
So she came up.
于是她就上来了。
And we went for a walk.
我们去散步了。
And I just took her shoulders, and I said, I want to look in your eyes and tell you from the bottom of my heart, I am so sorry I doubted you and I didn't believe you and we didn't support you.
我只是抓住她的肩膀，我说，我想看着你的眼睛，从心底告诉你，我很抱歉我怀疑你，我不相信你，我们不支持你。
And she said that was OK, gave me a big hug.
她说没关系，给了我一个大大的拥抱。
And I was just so shocked that she would be willing to forgive me for that because it was such a huge thing.
我很震惊她竟然愿意原谅我，因为这是一件大事。
And it went on for so long.
而且这种情况持续了很长时间。
The worst, horrible part of this whole thing for me is that I did talk to the police.
对我来说，这整件事中最糟糕、最可怕的部分是我确实和警察谈过。
And I regret that now.
我现在很后悔。
Of course, this is Peggy.
当然，这是佩吉。
Shannon and Peggy have thought a lot about what happened and their role in it.
香农和佩吉对发生的事情以及他们在其中扮演的角色进行了很多思考。
They doubted Marie because of something so normal and human.
他们因为一些如此正常和人性的事情而怀疑玛丽。
They trusted their intuition about someone they knew really well.
他们相信自己对自己非常了解的人的直觉。
It's hard not to do that.
很难不这样做。
They had a gut feeling that was wrong but felt utterly true.
他们的直觉是错误的，但却是完全正确的。
But trauma works in complicated ways.
但创伤的作用方式很复杂。
You can't tell if someone was raped by how they're acting.
你无法通过某人的行为来判断他是否被强奸。
They can be subdued and detached, but they can also be hyper and laughing.
他们可以是谦逊和超然的，但他们也可以是亢奋和大笑的。
They can go back and forth.
他们可以来回走动。
Sometimes, they tell no one what happened.
有时，他们不告诉任何人发生了什么事。
Sometimes, they tell a lot of people.
有时，他们会告诉很多人。
Sometimes, they're not sure if the assault actually happened.
有时，他们不确定袭击是否真的发生过。
At this point, Peggy knows that.
此刻，佩吉知道了。
But even now, she can't shake the feeling she had that led her to call police in the first place.
但即使是现在，她也无法摆脱最初导致她报警的感觉。
Obviously, wish I hadn't.
显然，我希望我没有。
But on the other hand, there was all these other things, you know?
但另一方面，还有所有这些其他的事情，你知道吗？
I mean, the police and the way that Marie was acting.
我的意思是，警察和玛丽的行为方式。
I mean, she on some level needs to take responsibility for that, too.
我的意思是，她在某种程度上也需要为此承担责任。
I'm sorry, but that's true.
抱歉，但这是事实。
And--
还有——
What do you mean?
你什么意思？
Peggy She needs to realize at some point, and I think she does now, that-- OK, I hate to say this.
佩吉 她需要在某个时刻意识到，我想她现在已经意识到了——好吧，我不想这么说。
But you know, I mean-- OK, now this is going to sound really bad, like I'm blaming the victim.
但你知道，我的意思是——好吧，现在这听起来真的很糟糕，就像我在责怪受害者一样。
But some of the way that she was acting was part of the reason why it had the outcome that it did.
但她的某些行为方式是造成这种结果的部分原因。
And I am not the only person that didn't believe her.
我不是唯一不相信她的人。
But also, it sounds like everyone who was doubting her didn't have much information about the way that rape trauma can function.
而且，听起来每个怀疑她的人都没有太多关于强奸创伤如何发挥作用的信息。
And so is this about the way that she acted?
那么这与她的行为方式有关吗？
Well, it shouldn't be about the way that she acted.
嗯，这不应该是她的行为方式的问题。
But, unfortunately, the reality is that that did influence-- and it sounds really harsh for me to say that.
但不幸的是，现实是这确实产生了影响——我这么说听起来确实很刺耳。
It's not her fault because I think it's totally a product of what she went through.
这不是她的错，因为我认为这完全是她所经历的事情的产物。
But on the other hand-- oh, God.
但另一方面——哦，上帝。
I don't know.
我不知道。
What she does know is that she never expected her feelings to derail an entire police investigation.
她所知道的是，她从未预料到自己的感情会破坏整个警方的调查。
She's mad police let that happen.
警察让这种事发生，她很生气。
Detective Mason takes full responsibility for what happened.
梅森侦探对所发生的事情承担全部责任。
Commander Rider, Mason's boss, head of the criminal investigations division, calls Marie's case, quote, "a major failing," one his department thinks of often.
梅森的上司、刑事调查部门的负责人莱德指挥官称玛丽的案件是“一个重大失败”，他的部门经常想到这一点。
He says the detectives should never have given Peggy's call the weight they did.
他说侦探们不应该对佩吉的电话给予如此重视。
The Lynnwood Police Department's own internal review of the case said the same.
林伍德警察局对此案的内部审查也表示了同样的看法。
The report said the call, quote, "caused the detectives to change their focus towards investigating the victim for false reporting." No one was disciplined in the case.
报道称，这通电话“导致侦探们将注意力转向调查受害者的虚假报告”。此案中没有人受到纪律处分。
Marie sued Lynnwood and its police officers and wound up settling for $150,000.
玛丽起诉林伍德及其警察，最终以 15 万美元和解。
She also sued the Project Ladder managers and the nonprofit that oversaw Project Ladder, Cocoon House.
她还起诉了 Project Ladder 经理和监督 Project Ladder 的非营利组织 Cocoon House。
Cocoon House issued a statement at the time saying, quote, "Our hearts go out to Marie and her family.
Cocoon House 当时发表声明称：“我们的心与玛丽和她的家人同在。
We strongly believe that Cocoon House and its employees acted appropriately on behalf of the client," the client meaning Marie.
我们坚信 Cocoon House 及其员工代表客户采取了适当的行动，”客户指的是玛丽。
Cocoon House settled the lawsuit.
Cocoon House 解决了诉讼。
Marie says her conclusion and her advice to any woman who wants to report a sexual assault-- bring proof.
玛丽说，她的结论和对任何想要举报性侵犯的女性的建议是——带上证据。
I just think that all of the facts and everything needs to be laid out so that they can't go back and find something, you know, that you didn't tell them.
我只是认为所有的事实和一切都需要列出来，这样他们就无法回去找到你没有告诉他们的东西。
Oh, I know.
哦，我知道。
Right.
正确的。
I'm not really sure how to answer that.
我不太确定如何回答这个问题。
It just seems like that's how everybody is.
似乎每个人都是这样。
Really sucks that you have to be on trial after you go through something so traumatic like that.
经历过如此痛苦的事情后还必须接受审判，这真是太糟糕了。
But that's just how it is and how people think.
但这就是事实和人们的想法。
And that's what happened to me.
这就是发生在我身上的事情。
This story was put together by Ken Armstrong and Robyn Semien.
这个故事由肯·阿姆斯特朗和罗宾·塞米恩整理而成。
Robyn is a producer on our program.
罗宾是我们节目的制片人。
Ken is an investigative reporter for The Marshall Project.
肯是马歇尔计划的调查记者。
A print version of the story, a collaboration between The Marshall Project and ProPublica, was published in December.
该故事的印刷版由马歇尔计划和 ProPublica 合作于 12 月出版。
You can read that online at themarshallproject.org or propublica.org.
您可以在 themarshallproject.org 或 propublica.org 在线阅读该内容。
That version of the story was reported and written by Ken and ProPublica's T.
该故事的那个版本是由 Ken 和 ProPublica 的 T 报道和撰写的。
Christian Miller, who also contributed to the radio version of the story.
克里斯蒂安·米勒（Christian Miller）也为该故事的广播版本做出了贡献。
Well, our program was produced today by Brian Reed, Robyn Semien with Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Neil Drumming, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Alissa Shipp, Lilly Sullivan, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Brian Reed、Robyn Semien 以及 Zoe Chace、Sean Cole、Neil Drumming、Stephanie Foo、Chana Joffe-Walt、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Alissa Shipp、Lilly Sullivan 和 Nancy Updike 制作。
Our senior producer is Brian Reed.
我们的高级制片人是布莱恩·里德。
Our editor's Joel Lovell.
我们的编辑是乔尔·洛弗尔。
Julie Snyder's our editorial consultant.
朱莉·斯奈德是我们的编辑顾问。
Our technical director is Matt Tierney.
我们的技术总监是马特·蒂尔尼。
Production help from Lyra Smith.
Lyra Smith 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our production manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson's our business operations manager.
Elise Bergerson 是我们的业务运营经理。
Elna Baker scouts stories for our program.
艾尔娜·贝克为我们的节目寻找故事。
Kimberly Henderson is our office coordinator.
Kimberly Henderson 是我们的办公室协调员。
Research help from Christopher Swetala.
克里斯托弗·斯维塔拉 (Christopher Swetala) 提供研究帮助。
Music help Damien Gray, from Geddis.
音乐帮助来自 Geddis 的达米恩·格雷 (Damien Gray)。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, I asked him, why is he so beloved?
我问他，你知道为什么他如此受人爱戴吗？
Is it because he's so great at his job?
是因为他的工作非常出色吗？
Or is he just so good-looking.
或者说他只是长得这么好看而已。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life .
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。