578: I Thought I Knew You - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #578 | January 29, 2016 578: I Thought I Knew You Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 578 集 | 2016 年 1 月 29 日 578：我以为我认识你 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass OK, real estate shoppers-- some important factors to take into account when you're choosing a neighborhood-- price, how long your commute will be, schools, safety, does Mos Def live nearby?
序言 Ira Glass 好的，房地产购买者——选择社区时需要考虑的一些重要因素——价格、通勤时间、学校、安全、Mos Def 住在附近吗？
That last one was a factor for Adam when he was looking at this one neighborhood in New York.
当亚当考虑纽约的这个社区时，最后一个因素是他考虑的一个因素。
The fact that Mos Def allegedly lived there.
事实上，莫斯达夫据称住在那里。
I think at the time, he and Erykah Badu might have been together.
我想当时他和Erykah Badu可能已经在一起了。
I did run into Mos Def at the overpriced bodega on the corner and did the creepy thing of, like, seeing him through the window, waiting for him outside, and accosting him the second he came outside and being like, "yo, man.
我确实在街角那家价格过高的酒馆里遇到了莫斯达夫，做了一件令人毛骨悚然的事情，比如透过窗户看到他，在外面等他，当他一出来就和他搭话，然后说，“哟，伙计。
Your album was really significant to me." And he looked terrified.
你的专辑对我来说真的很重要。”他看起来很害怕。
You know, he couldn't wait to get out of there with, like, his $12 mangoes or whatever.
你知道，他迫不及待地想带着 12 美元的芒果之类的东西离开那里。
This was a Brooklyn neighborhood called Fort Greene.
这是布鲁克林的一个街区，名叫格林堡。
It was the year 2000, and the neighborhood was in the early stages of gentrifying.
那是 2000 年，这个社区正处于中产阶级化的早期阶段。
Adam left his cell number with a bunch of real estate brokers.
亚当把他的手机号码留给了一群房地产经纪人。
And Fort Greene was very real estate broker intensive.
格林堡的房地产经纪人非常密集。
You know, it's not a big neighborhood.
你知道，这不是一个大街区。
There were possibly more brokers than there were blocks.
经纪人的数量可能比区块的数量还要多。
So I left my phone number with a bunch of these brokers.
所以我把我的电话号码留给了这些经纪人。
And I was walking up Fulton Street probably an hour after dropping all these phone numbers off when I got a call from one of these brokers.
当我放下所有这些电话号码大约一个小时后，我正沿着富尔顿街走，接到其中一位经纪人的电话。
And she was a British lady.
她是一位英国女士。
And she started describing to me an apartment.
她开始向我描述一套公寓。
And it had high ceilings and wood floors and lots of natural light.
它有高高的天花板和木地板，还有充足的自然光线。
And it sounded great.
听起来很棒。
But the only problem was the apartment was not in Forte Greene.
但唯一的问题是公寓不在格林堡。
It was in Bed-Stuy, Bedford-Stuyvesant.
那是在贝德福德-斯图文森特的贝德-斯图伊。
Bed-Stuy-- further from Manhattan, more crime, less gentrified.
Bed-Stuy——离曼哈顿更远，犯罪率更高，贵族化程度更低。
For instance, Adam says if you visited both neighborhoods, Fort Greene and Bed-Stuy, and compared what the fake businesses were like that marijuana dealers worked out of--
例如，亚当说，如果你访问了格林堡和贝德-斯图伊这两个社区，并比较了大麻经销商经营的假冒企业的情况——
Like how plausible are they as businesses?
作为企业，它们的可信度如何？
You know?
你知道？
So if it's the kind of thing where you walk into a bodega and there's, like, one can of grape soda and a box of baking powder and a shady looking dude behind six inches of reinforced bulletproof glass, then your neighborhood is far from gentrified.
因此，如果你走进一家小酒馆，里面有一罐葡萄汽水和一盒泡打粉，还有一个躲在六英寸强化防弹玻璃后面、看上去很可疑的家伙，那么你的社区还远没有高档化。
Whereas Fort Greene at that point had businesses which I went to because I wanted to actually partake of their legal goods and services and didn't even know that they were weed spots.
而当时格林堡有一些企业，我去那里是因为我想真正分享他们的合法商品和服务，甚至不知道它们是杂草丛生的地方。
Like there was this hat shop that I actually bought a hat at.
就像我实际上在这家帽子店买了一顶帽子一样。
And everybody looked at me like, you knot that's not really a hat shop, right?
每个人都看着我，你知道那不是真正的帽子店，对吧？
So that was the level that Fort Greene was at.
这就是格林堡所处的水平。
OK.
好的。
So transitional.
如此过渡。
Adam Yes, transitional.
亚当 是的，过渡性的。
But less transitional than Bed-Stuy.
但比卧床学习的过渡性要小。
So he bought records in Bed-Stuy, he ate dinner in Bed-Stuy, and, as he told the real estate broker, did not want to live in Bed-Stuy.
所以他在 Bed-Stuy 买了唱片，在 Bed-Stuy 吃了晚饭，而且正如他告诉房地产经纪人的那样，他不想住在 Bed-Stuy。
And so I said, "you know, the apartment sounds cool.
所以我说：“你知道，这间公寓听起来很酷。
But I'm going to pass.
但我会过去的。
Bed-Stuy's a little bit Boondocksickle for me.
Bed-Stuy 对我来说有点像Boondocksickle。
So call me if you get a Fort Greene listing." And very quickly and professionally, she switched gears and started trying to convince me that I should check out the Bed-Stuy apartment.
所以，如果你有格林堡的房源，请给我打电话。”她很快又专业地改变了立场，开始试图说服我应该去看看床边学习公寓。
So she said, look, "I don't know what you've heard about Bed-Stuy.
所以她说，“我不知道你对床上学习有什么了解。
But it's really very nice.
但它真的非常好。
It's very safe.
这是非常安全的。
It's changing very fast.
它的变化非常快。
A lot of white people are moving there." And I stopped dead in my tracks, offended and surprised that after about 10 seconds on the phone with me, this woman wanted to have this kind of conspiratorial nudge-nudge-wink-wink conversation as a way of letting me know that Bed-Stuy was safe for people like me.
很多白人正在搬到那里。”我突然停住了脚步，感到被冒犯和惊讶的是，在与我通了大约 10 秒钟的电话后，这个女人想要进行这种阴谋性的轻推、眨眼谈话，以此让我知道 Bed-Stuy 对于像我这样的人来说是安全的。
I was mostly offended by it.
我主要是被它冒犯了。
So I figured that I should end that line of conversation as forcefully as possible and kind of shock her back.
所以我想我应该尽可能有力地结束这段对话，并让她感到震惊。
So I said, I don't like white people that much, and I'm not trying to live around too many of them.
所以我说，我不太喜欢白人，而且我不想和太多白人一起生活。
And there was, like, silence on the phone.
电话里一片沉默。
And then she said something along the lines of, "you-- you don't like white people?"
然后她说了一些类似的话，“你——你不喜欢白人？”
And I was like, "no. You know, I don't hate them or anything.
我当时想，“不。你知道，我不恨他们或任何东西。
But they walk around like they own the planet.
但他们走来走去就像他们拥有这个星球一样。
They're really entitled.
他们确实有权利。
They don't make particularly good neighbors.
他们并不是特别好的邻居。
So no, I'm not really trying to live around too many of them."
所以不，我并不想和太多人一起生活。”
And there was more silence on the phone.
电话那头更加沉默了。
And then very slowly and deliberately she said, "sir, I'm very sorry.
然后她非常缓慢而谨慎地说：“先生，我很抱歉。
I didn't mean to offend you.
我无意冒犯你。
I can tell from your voice that you're obviously African American."
我从你的声音中可以看出你显然是非裔美国人。”
And I cut her off.
我打断了她。
And I was like, "no, no, no. You got it wrong.
我当时想，“不，不，不。你错了。
I'm white."
我是白人。”
And then I add something like, "no offense.
然后我补充了一些类似的话，“无意冒犯。
She says, oh, I'm not offended.
她说，哦，我没有生气。
I get it.
我明白了。
I'm black," which, because of her British accent, hadn't occurred to me.
我是黑人。”由于她的英国口音，我没有想到这一点。
And the next thing I remember about the conversation is basically that the two of us both start laughing because in the space of about a minute we had both made so many assumptions and cycled through so many identities.
关于这次谈话，我记得的下一件事基本上是我们两个都开始大笑，因为在大约一分钟的时间内，我们都做出了很多假设，并循环了很多身份。
The absurdity of it just, I think, hit us both at once.
我想，这件事的荒谬性一下子就击中了我们俩。
I assumed that he was black.
我以为他是黑人。
Ira Glass Well, does he sound black to you in this recording?
Ira Glass 嗯，在这段录音中，你觉得他听起来很黑人吗？
Yes, he does.
是的，他确实如此。
And it's just-- I realize it's the way he spreads his words out for me.
这只是——我意识到这就是他向我传达话语的方式。
After talking to Adam, I got in touch with the real estate broker, Noreen Sumpter.
与 Adam 交谈后，我联系了房地产经纪人 Noreen Sumpter。
And she remembers this incident the same way he does with one exception.
她对这件事的记忆和他一样，只有一个例外。
She says she would not have said, "I'm sorry.
她说她不会说：“对不起。
I did not mean to offend you.
我无意冒犯你。
Are you African American?"
你是非裔美国人吗？”
No, I didn't say that.
不，我没那么说。
I just directly-- "oh, so you black." Do I sound like I'd be, (AMERICAN ACCENT) "sir, are you sorry?
我只是直接——“哦，原来你是黑人。”我听起来像是（美国口音）“先生，您很抱歉吗？
I'm sorry." (DROPS ACCENT) No, I'm not that.
对不起。” （降低重音）不，我不是那样的。
I'm like, "oh, really?
我想，“哦，真的吗？
You don't like white people?
你不喜欢白人？
Are you black?"
你是黑人吗？”
She's no longer in real estate these days.
这些天她不再从事房地产行业了。
She's a life coach.
她是一位生活教练。
But she says the thing that set Adam off-- the race-baiting, wink, wink, don't-worry-a-lot-of-white-people-are-moving-there-- was not something she said to white clients or to anybody else.
但她说，让亚当生气的事情——种族诱饵、眨眼、眨眼、别担心很多白人都搬到那里——并不是她对白人客户或其他任何人说的。
She only said it to him because--
她对他这么说只是因为——
I assumed that he was black and he was scared to move into a black neighborhood with black people is why I said it to him.
我以为他是黑人，他害怕搬到有黑人的黑人社区，这就是我对他这么说的原因。
Right?
正确的？
Like, what is this guy?
比如，这个人是什么？
You're a black guy.
你是个黑人。
What are you-- so that's why I said, there's a lot of white people moving there, meaning that you're black.
你是什么——所以这就是为什么我说，有很多白人搬到那里，这意味着你是黑人。
If you're a black man, you should be comfortable in that neighborhood.
如果你是黑人，你应该在那个街区感到舒服。
Like white people aren't scared to live there.
就像白人并不害怕住在那里一样。
Why can't you?
为什么你不能？
Yeah.
是的。
Like what's going on?
好像发生了什么事？
What's over there with you why you wouldn't move there?
你那儿有什么事为什么不搬到那里去？
But he wasn't a black man.
但他不是黑人。
He was a white guy.
他是一个白人。
I love the efficiency of this story.
我喜欢这个故事的效率。
Like, I like how we all have people in our lives who it takes years to figure, like, oh, I totally misjudged this person.
就像，我喜欢我们生活中都有一些需要花费数年时间才能理解的人，就像，哦，我完全误判了这个人。
And this is the most efficient version of getting somebody wrong and realizing you've gotten it wrong.
这是让别人错了并意识到自己错了的最有效的版本。
Like, you couldn't do it in fewer sentences.
就像，你无法用更少的句子来完成它。
Look, I'm the queen of the world.
瞧，我是世界女王。
You know what?
你知道吗？
The people in my building call me Queen Nor, Goddess of the Universe.
我大楼里的人称我为诺尔女王，宇宙女神。
So that makes me realize that I can solve anything.
这让我意识到我可以解决任何问题。
Anything can be solved through a conversation.
任何事情都可以通过对话来解决。
I did assume, and he assumed, and we both assumed back and forth.
我确实假设了，他也假设了，我们都假设了一遍又一遍。
But we resolved it in, like, a heartbeat.
但我们很快就解决了这个问题。
So, hey, kudos for us.
所以，嘿，为我们点赞。
Sometimes people's answers to questions really surprise me.
有时人们对问题的回答确实让我感到惊讶。
Well, today on our program, people who are in this same situation, where they realize, oh, no. I thought you were one thing, and I got it wrong.
好吧，今天在我们的节目中，处于同样情况的人们意识到，哦，不。我以为你是一回事，但我错了。
You are not that person.
你不是那个人。
Except in these other cases, they do not have Queen Nor to help them wrap it up so quickly.
除了这些其他情况外，他们没有诺尔女王来帮助他们这么快地解决问题。
And so some of these misunderstandings and misperceptions, they drag on for years, with a lot more feelings attached to them.
因此，其中一些误解和误解会持续多年，并伴随着更多的感情。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life .
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One: Who's Really On Line 1?
第一幕：谁真正在线 1？
Ira Glass Act One, "Who's Really On Line Two?" And now, a radio host discovering things about his listeners that he wishes were not true, obviously one of the worst things that could ever happen to a person.
艾拉·格拉斯第一幕“谁真正在第二线？”现在，一位电台主持人发现他的听众的一些事情他希望不是真的，这显然是一个人可能发生的最糟糕的事情之一。
I think we can all agree on that.
我想我们都同意这一点。
I'm saying this as if this is a problem in my life.
我这么说就好像这是我生活中的一个问题一样。
I don't-- it's not at all.
我不——根本不是。
Anyway, it recently happened to Tony Beam, host of the radio show Christian Worldview Today in South Carolina.
不管怎样，最近南卡罗来纳州电台节目《今日基督教世界观》的主持人托尼·比姆(Tony Beam)就发生了这样的事情。
Zoe Chace tells the story.
佐伊·切斯讲述了这个故事。
Tony's on early mornings, 92.9 FM, 660 AM, weekdays.
周一至周五，Tony 每天早上 92.9 FM，660 AM。
His show is for and by the evangelical community.
他的节目是为福音派团体服务并由福音派团体举办的。
Politics, news, a little sports, God-- that's his show.
政治、新闻、一点体育，上帝——这就是他的节目。
"All right, welcome back.
“好吧，欢迎回来。
Hour number two of Christian Worldview Today is coming off the shelf, and it's coming straight at you.
《今日基督教世界观》的第二个小时即将下架，它正向您袭来。
But just receive it.
但只要收到就可以了。
It's a good thing."
这是一件好事。”
Tony and his callers speak the same language.
托尼和他的来电者说着同样的语言。
They hate Obamacare, deficit spending.
他们讨厌奥巴马医改和赤字支出。
They feel the Christian right gets no respect from the Republican establishment.
他们认为基督教右翼没有得到共和党建制派的尊重。
And when Tony endorses a presidential candidate, enough of his listeners agree with him that candidates seek him out.
当托尼支持一位总统候选人时，足够多的听众同意他的观点，候选人就会去找他。
They come on the air with him.
他们和他一起播出。
He went with Huckabee in '08, Santorum in 2012.
2012 年，他于 08 年与 Huckabee 一起前往桑托勒姆。
Last spring, Ted Cruz invited Tony and his wife up to DC.
去年春天，特德·克鲁兹邀请托尼和他的妻子去华盛顿。
He sat them down in a private Washington apartment and made a pitch.
他让他们在华盛顿的一间私人公寓里坐下来并进行了推销。
He was going to unite the Tea Party, the libertarians, the evangelicals, and win.
他将团结茶党、自由主义者、福音派并赢得胜利。
Tony told me how much he liked him.
托尼告诉我他有多喜欢他。
Not only did he have the principles and convictions that I have, but he had a political strategy that I thought would succeed.
他不仅拥有我所拥有的原则和信念，而且拥有我认为会成功的政治策略。
And when we walked out of that meeting, my wife, who is not near as involved in politics or fascinated by as I am, she looked at me and she says, you do what you want.
当我们走出那次会议时，我的妻子不像我那样参与政治或着迷，她看着我说，你做你想做的事。
I'm voting for that guy.
我投票给那个人。
Not long after, he went on the radio and endorsed Cruz, a lifelong evangelical conservative.
不久之后，他在广播中支持了终身福音派保守派克鲁兹。
"I believe he's the right man for the job.
“我相信他是这份工作的合适人选。
I believe he's the right person that's got insider knowledge.
我相信他是拥有内幕知识的合适人选。
But he's an outsider within his own party because he's willing to call out his party.
但他在自己的政党内是个局外人，因为他愿意公开批评自己的政党。
That impresses me."
这让我印象深刻。”
Tony knows this scene-- anti-establishment Christian Republicans in South Carolina.
托尼熟悉这个场景——南卡罗来纳州的反建制基督教共和党人。
Year after year, he goes to the state political gatherings, the Silver Elephant dinner, Jeff Duncan's Faith in Freedom BBQ.
年复一年，他参加州政治集会、银象晚宴、杰夫·邓肯的自由信仰烧烤会。
He grew up listening to Ronald Reagan on the radio, sitting in the kitchen with his dad.
他从小就和父亲坐在厨房里，听着广播里的罗纳德·里根的歌长大。
And he was telling me, you know, this guy has got the answer for the future.
他告诉我，你知道，这个人已经找到了未来的答案。
That is a real American Republican origin story.
这是一个真实的美国共和党起源故事。
It is.
这是。
It really is.
确实如此。
Zoe Chace You and your dad in the kitchen, the eggs frying, listening to Ronald Reagan on the radio.
佐伊·切斯（Zoe Chace） 你和你爸爸在厨房里煎鸡蛋，听着广播里的罗纳德·里根（Ronald Reagan）。
I can hear it.
我能听到。
And I can actually, I can smell the-- I mean, most people it was bacon and eggs.
事实上，我可以闻到——我的意思是，大多数人闻到的是培根和鸡蛋的味道。
My dad loved livermush, believe it or not.
不管你信不信，我爸爸很喜欢Livemush。
And he would fry livermush and make like livermush and egg sandwiches.
他会炒肝糊，然后做肝糊和鸡蛋三明治。
Tony was especially excited this election year.
托尼在今年的选举年尤其兴奋。
As the establishment candidates, Bush and Scott Walker, flamed out, his guy Ted Cruz was on the rise.
当建制派候选人布什和斯科特·沃克逐渐失势时，他的搭档特德·克鲁兹却在崛起。
It looked like he had a real shot at being the nominee.
看起来他确实有机会成为提名人。
Obviously, there is also this other candidate in the race-- Donald Trump.
显然，竞选中还有另一位候选人——唐纳德·特朗普。
But Tony wasn't worried about Trump.
但托尼并不担心特朗普。
He figured Trump does not fit in with people built on livermush and the Bible.
他认为特朗普与那些以利弗马什和圣经为基础的人格格不入。
When Donald Trump got in the race, I said, pssh.
当唐纳德·特朗普参加竞选时，我说，嘘。
In three weeks, we'll be done here because there's no way that people are going to go chasing after him.
三个星期后，我们就结束了，因为人们不可能去追他。
Then came the first Republican debate, the one where Megyn Kelly, the Fox News anchor, asked Trump about some stuff he'd said about women.
然后是第一场共和党辩论，福克斯新闻主播梅根·凯利向特朗普询问他所说的一些关于女性的事情。
And unlike this week, Trump was there to answer those questions.
与本周不同的是，特朗普在那里回答了这些问题。
"You've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals.
“你把你不喜欢的女人称为肥猪、肥狗、邋遢者和恶心的动物。
Your Twitter account--"
你的推特账户——”
"Only Rosie O'Donnell." [CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]
“只有罗西·奥唐纳。” [欢呼和掌声]
"No, it wasn't." Zoe Chace I'll point out over this 16 seconds of cheering and applause that this turned out to be a very controversial line of questioning.
“不，不是的。” Zoe Chace 在这 16 秒的欢呼和掌声中，我要指出，这是一个非常有争议的提问。
OK, still going.
好的，还在继续。
Donald Trump "Thank you."
唐纳德·特朗普：“谢谢。”
"For the record, it was well beyond Rosie O'Donnell."
“据记录，这远远超出了罗西·奥唐纳。”
"Yes, I'm sure it was." Megyn Kelly "Your Twitter account has several disparaging comments about women's looks.
“是的，我确信是的。”梅根·凯利“你的推特账户有一些关于女性外貌的贬低评论。
You once told a contestant on Celebrity Apprentice it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees.
你曾经对《名人学徒》的一位参赛者说，如果看到她跪下的话，那画面一定很美。
Does that sound to you like the temperament of a man we should elect as president?"
你觉得这听起来像我们应该选为总统的人的气质吗？”
I thought it was fair game.
我认为这是公平的游戏。
I mean, this is-- Democrats do pound Republicans with a war on women.
我的意思是，民主党确实通过针对女性的战争来打击共和党。
And now we've got a guy who's kind of the front-runner who's attacking the way a woman looks and attacking other women by name?
现在我们有了一个领先者，他攻击女性的外表并指名道姓地攻击其他女性？
Are you kidding me?
你在开玩笑吧？
"And frankly, what I say-- and oftentimes, it's fun.
“坦率地说，我所说的——而且很多时候，这很有趣。
It's kidding.
这是开玩笑。
We have a good time.
我们玩得很开心。
What I say is what I say."
我说什么就是我说什么。”
I come and crack the microphone after that first debate.
第一次辩论结束后，我来打破麦克风。
And I'm like, [GIGGLING] Trump's done.
我想，[咯咯笑]特朗普完蛋了。
This is it.
就是这样。
He's really stepped in it now.
他现在真的踏入了这一步。
And I'm plastered with people calling me telling me how glad they are the way Trump handled himself and that he won that debate.
很多人打电话给我，告诉我他们很高兴特朗普处理自己的方式以及他赢得了这场辩论。
And I was stunned.
我惊呆了。
I thought I was doing somebody else's talk show, that they had switched frequencies on me and not told me, and that I was actually doing a show from a different location.
我以为我正在做别人的脱口秀，他们已经改变了我的频率但没有告诉我，而我实际上是在另一个地点做节目。
This is crazy.
这太疯狂了。
This is not who we are.
这不是我们。
"And I've been waiting for years to hear a politician that talks the way Donald Trump talks.
“多年来，我一直在等待一位政客像唐纳德·特朗普那样说话。
Now is he going to deliver?
现在他要送货了吗？
I don't know.
我不知道。
But I'm telling you, I'm a Trumpeter.
但我告诉你，我是一名号手。
I mean, unless he's a liar, he's saying all the right things."
我的意思是，除非他是骗子，否则他说的都是对的。”
"Yeah." Radio Caller "And whether his conservative credentials are bona fide or not, that's not the point.
“是的。”电台来电者“无论他的保守派资历是否真实，这都不是重点。
See, anybody can change.
你看，任何人都可以改变。
Ronald Reagan did, as we all know."
众所周知，罗纳德·里根做到了。”
"Alex, Alex.
“亚历克斯，亚历克斯。
I hate to interrupt a great rant, and that was a great rant.
我讨厌打断一场伟大的咆哮，那是一次伟大的咆哮。
And as far as rants goes, that was right up there.
就咆哮而言，那是正确的。
But you said it doesn't-- I don't know if his conservative credentials are true or not.
但你说不是——我不知道他的保守派资历是真是假。
But it doesn't matter.
但没关系。
It doesn't?"
不是吗？”
Calls like these got under Tony's skin real quick.
这样的电话很快让托尼很恼火。
"Donald Trump made a statement a couple of weeks ago that he wants to pursue the families of the--"
“唐纳德·特朗普几周前发表声明，表示他想追捕……”
"Yes, yes." Radio Caller "--of these jihadists."
“是的，是的。”无线电呼叫者“——这些圣战分子。”
"Yeah, wants to kill them." Radio Caller "And it was sixth-grade outrage.
“是啊，想杀了他们。”无线电呼叫者“这是六年级的愤怒。
And I can give you examples of two presidents who actually did that.
我可以举两个实际做到这一点的总统的例子。
One was the third president of the United States.
其中一位是美国第三任总统。
And the other was the 39th president of the United States."
另一位是美国第39任总统。”
"And by the way, so did Harry Truman when he dropped the atom bombs."
“顺便说一句，哈里·杜鲁门在投下原子弹时也是如此。”
"You think it's a good idea?
“你认为这是个好主意吗？
You think it's a good idea.
你认为这是个好主意。
I'm not asking you-- no."
我不是在问你——不。”
"I didn't say it was a good idea, Tony."
“我没说这是个好主意，托尼。”
"But this is warfare.
“但这就是战争。
This is what happens."
这就是发生的事情。”
"If you're gonna call and do this, put a stake in the ground.
“如果你要打电话去做这件事，就在地上放一根木桩。
I'm asking you.
我问你。
I'm calling you out.
我叫你出去。
I'm calling you out.
我叫你出去。
Do you want to ban all Muslims from the United States, and do you want to kill all the family members of anybody who's ever been involved in terrorism?
你想禁止所有穆斯林进入美国吗？你想杀死任何参与恐怖主义的人的所有家庭成员吗？
Is that what you want?
这就是你想要的吗？
Is that what you want?"
这就是你想要的吗？”
Tony's a pastor, a doctor of ministry from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.
托尼是一位牧师，是美南浸信会神学院的牧师。
And his big problem with Trump is that he's not a good Christian.
他对特朗普的最大问题是他不是一个好的基督徒。
He doesn't share the values that govern Tony's entire life.
他并不认同支配托尼一生的价值观。
For instance, last summer, an interviewer asked Trump if he'd ever asked God for forgiveness of his sins.
例如，去年夏天，一位采访者问特朗普是否曾请求上帝宽恕他的罪过。
And Trump was like, "why should I?
特朗普说：“我为什么要这么做？
I don't make mistakes.
我不会犯错误。
I mean, I drink the wine.
我的意思是，我喝了酒。
I eat the cracker." Some people thought it was funny.
我吃饼干。”有些人认为这很有趣。
Tony did not.
托尼没有。
Given that, nothing drives him crazier than when his listeners try to defend Trump along biblical lines, like when that guy Gene calls in to talk about Trump and the Second Book of Kings.
鉴于此，当他的听众试图按照圣经的观点为特朗普辩护时，没有什么比让他更疯狂的了，就像吉恩打电话来谈论特朗普和《列王纪》第二卷时那样。
"When I sit here and listen to Trump, I agree with a lot of what he's saying.
“当我坐在这里听特朗普讲话时，我同意他所说的很多内容。
And I want to remind your audience of a person in the Bible."
我想让你们的听众想起圣经中的一个人。”
"Oh, my gosh." Radio Caller "Who took down Jezebel?
“哦，天哪。”无线电呼叫者“谁打倒了耶洗别？
What was the name--"
叫什么名字——”
OK, what Gene is talking about is in the Second Book of Kings, this guy Jehu murdered Queen Jezebel because she had pagan idols around the kingdom.
好吧，吉恩所说的是在《列王纪下》中，这个家伙耶户谋杀了耶洗别王后，因为她在王国各地都有异教偶像。
Then he threw her body to the dogs.
然后他把她的尸体扔给了狗。
Jehu was like a warrior against a corrupt culture.
耶户就像一位对抗腐败文化的战士。
"His name was Jehu.
“他的名字叫耶户。
Do you remember that?"
你还记得吗？”
"I remember.
“我记得。
And you think--" Radio Caller "The Book of Kings."
你会想——“广播呼叫器”《国王之书》。
"--Donald Trump is Jehu?" Radio Caller "Yes.
“——唐纳德·特朗普就是耶胡？”无线电呼叫者“是的。
Yes."
是的。”
"You do?" Radio Caller "Yes.
“你做？”无线电呼叫者“是的。
Remember, Jehu was not a righteous man in God's eyes.
请记住，耶户在上帝眼中并不是一个义人。
And God used Jehu to fulfill Elijah's prophecy regarding Jezebel."
神使用耶户来应验以利亚关于耶洗别的预言。”
"But you believe that God-- yeah, whoa!
“但是你相信上帝——是的，哇！
Whoa!
哇！
Whoa!
哇！
Whoa!
哇！
Whoa, Gene.
哇，吉恩。
We have such chaos in this country that we would look to a man like Donald Trump, who has no core value system, to lead us back to the place that we need to be as a country."
我们这个国家如此混乱，我们会指望像唐纳德·特朗普这样没有核心价值体系的人来带领我们回到我们国家需要的地方。”
"I think Trump is gonna realize that he may well have to work with the Congress--"
“我认为特朗普会意识到他很可能必须与国会合作——”
In a recent poll of South Carolina evangelical voters, Trump is leading, eight points ahead of Ted Cruz.
在最近对南卡罗来纳州福音派选民进行的一项民意调查中，特朗普领先，领先特德·克鲁兹八个百分点。
Nationally, he's ahead by more than 15% with evangelical voters.
在全国范围内，他在福音派选民中领先 15% 以上。
Tony is in this very real struggle that I'd say a lot of anti-establishment Republicans are in.
托尼正处于这场非常真实的斗争中，我想说很多反建制共和党人都在经历这种斗争。
There is a part of the Donald Trump thing that appeals to him.
唐纳德·特朗普身上有一部分吸引了他。
Take this moment from the South Carolina Republican debate.
以南卡罗来纳州共和党辩论为例。
"And I can say, oh, I'm not angry.
“我可以说，哦，我没有生气。
I'm very angry because our country is being run horribly.
我很生气，因为我们的国家管理得很糟糕。
And I will gladly accept the mantle of anger.
我很乐意接受愤怒的衣钵。
Our military is a disaster.
我们的军队是一场灾难。
Our health care is a horror show.
我们的医疗保健是一场恐怖表演。
Obamacare, we're gonna repeal it--"
奥巴马医改，我们要废除它——”
I got to admit, when I hear stuff like that, I'm like, "yeah!
我必须承认，当我听到这样的事情时，我会说：“是啊！
Go!
走吧！
Just yeah, hit him again, harder!" And then I step back and go, wait a minute.
是的，再打他一次，用力一点！”然后我退后一步走开，等一下。
This is insane because the emotional part of me cannot take control over the thought process that is going to be what carries us in the long run.
这太疯狂了，因为我的情感部分无法控制从长远来看将支撑我们的思维过程。
And that's what scares me about this whole thing.
这就是整件事让我害怕的地方。
All of this is being wrought out on pure emotion.
所有这一切都是在纯粹的情感上完成的。
It's just been building.
它刚刚开始建设。
Obama is getting his way.
奥巴马正在如愿以偿。
Nobody's standing against him.
没有人反对他。
He's ruining this country.
他正在毁掉这个国家。
He doesn't love America.
他不爱美国。
And we don't have people that are pushing back.
而且我们没有人反对。
And it just-- that mindset turns, and people get madder and madder.
只是——心态发生了转变，人们变得越来越疯狂。
And I'm afraid we're gonna split the party and be in real trouble.
我担心我们会分裂党派并陷入真正的麻烦。
Do you have a specific memory of somebody calling in the show, and you think, oh, wait a minute.
您是否对节目中有人打来电话有特定的记忆，然后您想，哦，等一下。
This isn't going away.
这不会消失。
Yeah, Barry.
是的，巴里。
Yeah.
是的。
He called.
他打电话来。
He calls my show a lot.
他经常打电话给我的节目。
And I call him the Trump interpreter.
我称他为特朗普翻译。
"All right.
“好吧。
Barry's on the phone.
巴里正在打电话。
Hello, Barry."
你好，巴里。”
"Hey, Tony.
“嘿，托尼。
I got a couple questions on the Donald for you."
我有几个关于唐纳德的问题要问你。”
"OK, sure.
“好吧，当然。
Go ahead." Barry is an evangelical Christian.
继续吧。”巴里是一位福音派基督徒。
He's very strong in his faith.
他的信仰非常坚定。
And when he called and was all about Trump, I was like, oh, my gosh.
当他打电话来谈论特朗普时，我当时就想，哦，天哪。
"Now, the pushback that's he's doing against the media, various different reporters, and so forth-- good or bad?"
“现在，他对媒体、各种不同的记者等等所做的抵制——是好是坏？”
"It's good and bad." Barry Chisholm "Donald Trump is bullying--"
“这有好有坏。”巴里·奇泽姆“唐纳德·特朗普正在欺负——”
"Bullying." Barry Chisholm "--the GOP establishment."
“欺负人。”巴里·奇泽姆“——共和党建制派。”
"Oh.
“哦。
Hm." Barry Chisholm "Is that a good or bad thing?"
嗯。”巴里·奇泽姆：“这是好事还是坏事？”
"Well, I think it's a good thing for his campaign.
“嗯，我认为这对他的竞选来说是一件好事。
And I think it's a good thing for the people who are tired of the GOP establishment going to Washington and doing squat to make changes."
我认为这对于那些厌倦了共和党建制派前往华盛顿并寻求变革的人们来说是一件好事。”
"Sounds like you're on the Trump train."
“听起来你在特朗普的火车上。”
"Then what's going on?" Tony Beam "I didn't say that he's not doing things that are helpful."
“那到底是怎么回事？”托尼·比姆：“我并没有说他没有做有帮助的事情。”
"I know.
“我知道。
I know." Tony Beam "And I'm saying-- look, what I'm saying is, I don't want to get into all the reasons why I think it's a problem.
我知道。”托尼·比姆“我想说的是，我不想探究我认为这是一个问题的所有原因。
But anyway, Barry, thanks.
但无论如何，巴里，谢谢。
We don't have time.
我们没有时间。
We got to take a break.
我们得休息一下。
We'll come back.
我们会回来的。
We've got a couple of guests in the studios we want to--"
我们的工作室里有几位客人，我们想要——”
Notice how much Tony and Barry agree on.
请注意托尼和巴里的观点有多么一致。
The media is unfair to their candidates.
媒体对他们的候选人不公平。
The Republican establishment dismisses them.
共和党建制派驳斥了他们。
But still--
但仍然——
Well, I wouldn't recognize him if he walked in the room.
好吧，如果他走进房间我就认不出他了。
But I've talked to him enough on the air where, over the years-- I mean, he's been calling this show for years.
但多年来，我在广播中与他谈得够多了——我的意思是，他多年来一直在呼吁这个节目。
And I felt like I knew him pretty well.
而且我觉得我很了解他。
But he's gone in a direction that I would have said wouldn't have happened.
但他已经朝着我认为不会发生的方向发展了。
I thought we agreed that the person that we wanted to lead us would agree with our principles and have that at their core.
我以为我们一致认为我们想要领导我们的人会同意我们的原则并将其作为其核心。
So you're willing to lay all that aside?
那么你愿意把这一切都抛在一边吗？
Oh, I think he has those principles whether he's a Christian or not.
哦，我认为无论他是否是基督徒，他都有这些原则。
I just raise the white flag and go, line two because I don't know what to do about that.
我只是举白旗然后走第二线，因为我不知道该怎么办。
So after months of squabbling with Barry and the other callers over Trump, Tony remembers vividly the moment he was sure the ongoing argument with his listeners would finally end.
因此，在与巴里和其他来电者就特朗普问题争论了几个月之后，托尼清楚地记得他确信与听众正在进行的争论最终会结束的那一刻。
It was the moment he was sure Trump had lost the evangelical vote.
就在那一刻，他确信特朗普已经输掉了福音派的选票。
It was when Trump said we needed to ban all Muslims from coming to America.
就在那时，特朗普表示我们需要禁止所有穆斯林来到美国。
My first thought was, no. That-- no. Somebody's got that messed up.
我的第一个想法是，不。那——不。有人把事情搞砸了。
So then I find a video where he actually makes that statement.
然后我找到了一个视频，他确实做了这样的声明。
Donald J.
唐纳德·J。
Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.
特朗普呼吁全面彻底禁止穆斯林进入美国，直到我们国家的代表弄清楚到底发生了什么。
And I was horrified.
我很害怕。
You want to know my initial reaction?
你想知道我的第一反应吗？
I was horrified.
我很害怕。
I'm thinking to myself, this is so opposed to everything that are my core values.
我心里想，这与我的核心价值观背道而驰。
Were you nervous to come in and do the show after that happened because you knew--
那件事发生后你是否会因为参加演出而感到紧张，因为你知道——
No, because I'm an idiot.
不，因为我是个白痴。
Because I came in and thought, man, this may help Trump overall.
因为我进来后想，伙计，这可能对特朗普有整体帮助。
But Christians, they're going to be appalled by this.
但基督徒们，他们会对此感到震惊。
He didn't say their religious expression.
他没有说他们的宗教表达。
He said Muslims, which--
他说穆斯林，这——
It's a religion!
这是一种宗教！
Barry Chisholm Their ideology is absolutely a conquering ideology.
巴里·奇泽姆：他们的意识形态绝对是一种征服性的意识形态。
But--
但是——
He's saying Muslims have a conquering ideology.
他说穆斯林有一种征服的意识形态。
--until we can find out what's going on.
——直到我们能查出到底发生了什么。
So, you know--
所以，你知道——
OK.
好的。
Well, why don't we ban Christians?
那么，我们为什么不禁止基督徒呢？
Why don't we-- you know, Christians have in their background an ideological conquering mentality.
为什么我们不——你知道，基督徒的背景中有一种意识形态的征服心态。
I mean, you look at that Old Testament, man, you've got the Jews that were taking over the entire country.
我的意思是，你看看《旧约》，伙计，犹太人正在接管整个国家。
Christianity rose out of Judaism in the Christian-- now, I'm talking.
基督教是从基督教的犹太教中兴起的——现在，我说的是。
I'm talking now, Barry.
我现在正在说话，巴里。
See, this is the way this works.
看，这就是它的工作原理。
We don't talk at the same time.
我们不同时说话。
So we need to be-- what I'm trying to get you to see is that once we start down a road where we tell people that because of their religious expression, we're going to deny them entry into the country, we're setting a precedent.
所以我们需要——我想让你们看到的是，一旦我们开始告诉人们，由于他们的宗教表达，我们将拒绝他们进入这个国家，我们就开创了先例。
Yeah, I disagree because that's not what he's saying.
是的，我不同意，因为他不是这么说的。
It's their ideology.
这是他们的意识形态。
It's the connection with terror is what he's talking about.
他所说的是与恐怖的联系。
But all Muslims are not terrorist.
但并非所有穆斯林都是恐怖分子。
All Muslims are not terrorist.
并非所有穆斯林都是恐怖分子。
All Christians don't shoot abortion doctors and bomb abortion clinics.
所有基督徒都不会射击堕胎医生和炸弹堕胎诊所。
I don't want to get lumped in with them because I'm a Christian any more than there are Muslims that don't want to be lumped into the idea of terrorism because there are radical Islamic extremists who are trying to kill people.
我不想与他们混为一谈，因为我是基督徒，就像穆斯林不想与恐怖主义混为一谈，因为有激进的伊斯兰极端分子试图杀人。
Barry, thanks for the call.
巴里，谢谢你的来电。
Robbie, I'm gonna have to hold you.
罗比，我必须抱着你。
We got to take a break.
我们得休息一下。
We'll come back.
我们会回来的。
We'll talk to Robbie.
我们会和罗比谈谈。
So I went to Barry, in person, to understand, yes, why he loves Trump so much, but really, how he'd strayed so far from Tony.
所以我亲自去找巴里，是的，我想了解他为何如此爱特朗普，但事实上，他是如何远离托尼的。
Is it you?
是你吗？
Barry Chisholm Hello, there.
巴里·奇泽姆 你好，那里。
How are you?
你好吗？
Hi, Barry.
嗨，巴里。
Barry Chisholm This is my son, David.
巴里·奇泽姆 这是我的儿子大卫。
I'm Zoe.
我是佐伊。
It's just, I'm thrilled to meet you.
只是，我很高兴见到你。
You're like a celebrity to me.
你对我来说就像一个名人。
Oh, really?
哦真的吗？
I don't understand.
我不明白。
How's that?
怎么样？
I don't get it.
我不明白。
Barry Chisholm, in the flesh.
巴里·奇泽姆，真人。
He works 20 minutes away from Tony's radio studio.
他的工作地点距离托尼的广播工作室 20 分钟路程。
He runs a small business managing employee benefits.
他经营着一家管理员工福利的小企业。
This means he is up close and personal with Obamacare, which he is not a fan of.
这意味着他与奥巴马医改有着密切的个人关系，但他并不喜欢奥巴马医改。
Barry is what you might have pictured-- hyper, older white guy in a baseball cap.
巴里可能就是你想象中的那样——一个戴着棒球帽、精力充沛、年长的白人。
He is indeed an evangelical Christian from Boston.
他确实是一位来自波士顿的福音派基督徒。
It takes him just a few seconds to wind himself up.
他只用了几秒钟就让自己平静下来。
Is that part of why you would move down here?
这就是你搬到这里的原因之一吗？
Like, it seems like a more friendly environment to evangelicals than Boston is.
就像，对于福音派来说，这里的环境似乎比波士顿更友好。
No, actually.
不，实际上。
No, I miss being up in Boston because the difference up there is if you're a Christian, you stand out like crazy.
不，我怀念在波士顿的日子，因为那里的不同之处在于，如果你是基督徒，你就会像疯了一样脱颖而出。
If you're a Christian down here, it's a cultural thing.
如果你是这里的基督徒，这是一个文化问题。
And I like being around people that have strong opinions because it's fun.
我喜欢和有强烈意见的人在一起，因为这很有趣。
Because you know what?
因为你知道什么？
I know what I believe.
我知道我相信什么。
And what I believe is not what I made up.
我所相信的并不是我编造的。
It's this guy Jesus Christ who started it.
是耶稣基督这个人开始了这一切。
So I'm globbing on to what he taught.
所以我正在学习他所教的内容。
So it's fun.
所以这很有趣。
I miss being up around people who don't know about Christ and what he taught.
我怀念周围那些不了解基督和他的教导的人。
So no, I miss that.
所以不，我想念那个。
That's probably the most fun part, is I like to engage people.
这可能是最有趣的部分，就是我喜欢与人交往。
And I like to turn people on.
我喜欢让人们兴奋。
Hey, go check it out.
嘿，去看看吧。
If you don't believe me, go find out for yourself.
如果你不相信我，你自己去了解一下。
That's the journey I had to take.
这就是我必须走的旅程。
And so no, I would never move down here just because--
所以不，我永远不会搬到这里只是因为——
So, I mean, also, it sounds like you kind of like living a little bit as a contrarian.
所以，我的意思是，听起来你有点像逆向投资者。
Is that fair to say?
这么说公平吗？
Yeah, that's real kind of accurate.
是的，这确实很准确。
You know?
你知道？
Yeah, it is kind of accurate, I guess.
是的，我想这有点准确。
I mean, yeah.
我的意思是，是的。
Barry is the guy who loves to stir the pot.
巴里是一个喜欢搅局的人。
Barry is a mischief maker.
巴里是个恶作剧者。
He is a scamp, kind of like Donald Trump.
他是个无赖，有点像唐纳德·特朗普。
Tony and Barry, though, they started out this election season in the very same place.
不过，托尼和巴里在这个选举季是在同一个地方开始的。
Well, I mean, I supported the Huck-- Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum before that, and then held my nose and voted for Mitt Romney.
嗯，我的意思是，在那之前我支持哈克——迈克·哈卡比、里克·桑托勒姆，然后捏着鼻子投票给米特·罗姆尼。
And I way back supported Reagan.
我很早就支持里根了。
So when this came around, and you had not the seven dwarfs, the 14 dwarfs out there, I mean, I just waited to see all the dust settle.
所以当这件事发生时，你没有七个小矮人，而是有 14 个小矮人，我的意思是，我只是等着看所有尘埃落定。
One thing about Donald Trump, I said, it will be entertaining if he gets in.
我说，关于唐纳德·特朗普的一件事是，如果他加入，将会很有趣。
It will be fun to watch because he's not a politician.
观看会很有趣，因为他不是政治家。
I didn't realize how much fun it would be.
我没有意识到这会有多有趣。
But it's gone way beyond my expectations.
但它已经远远超出了我的预期。
It's been the most enjoyable election I've ever seen, watching all these people's heads implode.
这是我见过的最令人愉快的选举，看着所有这些人的头脑崩溃。
It's been a fun time.
这是一段有趣的时光。
It's been fun to watch all the establishments come unhinged because they can't control it.
看着所有机构因为无法控制而变得精神错乱，这很有趣。
It's fun to watch the liberal media come out with the big hits, the names, and he's this, he's racist, and all that.
看到自由派媒体推出大热门、名字，他就是这样，他是种族主义者，等等，这很有趣。
I just never knew someone could take the heat and just punch back.
我只是从来不知道有人可以顶住压力并反击。
So it's like, yeah, this is fun.
所以这就像是，是的，这很有趣。
This is different.
这是不同的。
As for Ted Cruz, Barry says, forget it.
至于特德·克鲁兹，巴里说，算了吧。
He'd be killed in the mainstream media.
他会被主流媒体杀死。
He saw it with other strong evangelical candidates.
他在其他强有力的福音派候选人身上也看到了这一点。
They will just make fun of him.
他们只会取笑他。
But Donald Trump, he'll make fun of the mainstream media.
但唐纳德·特朗普，他会取笑主流媒体。
That is such a joy to Barry.
这对巴里来说真是一种快乐。
By the time the first debate happened-- you know, Megyn Kelly, the Rosie O'Donnell question-- Barry and Tony had completely opposite experiences.
当第一次辩论发生时——你知道，梅根·凯利，罗西·奥唐纳的问题——巴里和托尼有着完全相反的经历。
Tony's like, are you kidding me about Trump?
托尼说，你在拿特朗普开玩笑吗？
But that's what Barry says about Megyn Kelly.
但这就是巴里对梅根·凯利的评价。
Megyn Kelly had to spend a lot of time to dig up that little piece, and he made a cavalier joke.
梅根·凯利花了很多时间才挖出那一小块，他开了一个漫不经心的玩笑。
Are you kidding me?
你在开玩笑吧？
She was digging for stuff.
她正在挖东西。
We've got so politically correct, just like when Donald Trump said about Carly Fiorina's face.
我们在政治上非常正确，就像唐纳德·特朗普谈到卡莉·菲奥莉娜的脸时一样。
Look at that face.
看看那张脸。
Look, Donald Trump-- look, if you're going to be a woman, you're going to get in the thing, then go for it.
听着，唐纳德·特朗普——听着，如果你想成为一名女性，你就会参与其中，然后就去做吧。
Don't be, don't be-- he's an equal opportunity basher.
别这样，别这样——他是一个机会均等的破坏者。
He'll bash guys as well as women.
他会殴打男人和女人。
Stop with the baby stuff.
别再处理婴儿用品了。
And the Megyn Kelly thing, it became more about her than-- this is a presidential debate.
梅根·凯利的事情，更多的是关于她，而不是——这是一场总统辩论。
Didn't he say, blood coming out of her wherever?
他不是说，血从她身上流出来吗？
Oh, that.
哦，那个。
Oh, that, too.
哦，那个也是。
And that-- oh, that was afterwards.
那——哦，那是后来的事了。
Yeah, oh yeah.
是啊，哦，是啊。
That was stupidity.
那是愚蠢的。
I mean, there's no doubt about it.
我的意思是，这是毫无疑问的。
You know, is all this stuff presidential?
你知道，这一切都是总统的吗？
I don't know.
我不知道。
But you know what, this guy's not a politician.
但你知道吗，这家伙不是政客。
Megyn Kelly, the wall, the ban on Muslims, all the stuff that Tony was sure would drive everyone away, Barry loves those things.
梅根·凯利、隔离墙、穆斯林禁令，所有托尼确信会赶走所有人的东西，巴里喜欢这些东西。
Barry loves the idea, not necessarily the practice, but the fact of the statement of banning all Muslims.
巴里喜欢这个想法，不一定是做法，而是禁止所有穆斯林的声明这一事实。
All he's bringing up is do we have a problem?
他提出的只是我们有问题吗？
And if we do, can we talk about it?
如果我们这样做了，我们可以谈谈吗？
Or are we gonna just, everybody's a bigot now.
或者我们只是说，现在每个人都是偏执狂。
I mean, that's all.
我的意思是，仅此而已。
So Donald Trump-- we just want-- it needs to be addressed.
所以唐纳德·特朗普——我们只是希望——这个问题需要得到解决。
What I found out upon meeting Barry is one of the things he loves most about Donald Trump is arguing about Donald Trump.
我在见到巴里后发现，他最喜欢唐纳德·特朗普的事情之一就是争论唐纳德·特朗普。
The conversation that is freaking Tony out so much about the state of the country, that conversation itself is the thing that Barry is relishing.
这场谈话让托尼对这个国家的状况感到非常害怕，而这场谈话本身正是巴里所津津乐道的。
And Barry's diabolical about it.
巴里对此非常恶毒。
Barry has eight sons, all Trump fans, he says.
巴里说，他有八个儿子，都是特朗普的粉丝。
And he's deployed his son David in his pro-Trump battles against Tony.
他还派他的儿子大卫参与支持特朗普的斗争，对抗托尼。
What'll happen is, my dad will get on there.
将会发生的是，我爸爸会去那里。
Tony will get all flustered and upset.
托尼会变得心慌意乱、心烦意乱。
And every once in a while, if he's having a bad day, he'll cut him off short.
每隔一段时间，如果他今天心情不好，他就会打断他。
So then I call right in and just kind of continue the conversation because he thinks it's a whole 'nother caller or--
然后我就直接打电话过来，然后继续谈话，因为他认为这是一个“另一个来电者”，或者——
It is.
是的。
David It is.
大卫 是的。
But the whole-- so he can't avoid the Trump mindset sometimes.
但整体来说——所以他有时无法避免特朗普的心态。
Why do you do that to him?
你为什么要这样对他？
David It's just the challenge of it.
大卫：这只是挑战。
Because they have the authority to just kick people off and make people feel stupid when they call in.
因为他们有权将人们踢走，并让人们在打电话时感到愚蠢。
A lot of people be like, well, I don't really like Trump.
很多人会说，我不太喜欢特朗普。
I'm not a Trump supporter, but, you know, he's pretty good on this issue.
我不是特朗普的支持者，但是，你知道，他在这个问题上非常擅长。
And Tony will be just, oh!
托尼将会只是，哦！
Jump all over that.
跳过那一切。
I thought the Trump supporters I'd meet in South Carolina would be angry.
我以为我在南卡罗来纳州遇到的特朗普支持者会生气。
But a lot of them are like Barry-- angry, but having such a great time.
但他们中的很多人都像巴里一样——生气，但玩得很开心。
The people I met, they're more happy than angry.
我遇到的人，他们更多的是高兴而不是生气。
Like at this biker rally for Trump.
就像特朗普的自行车集会一样。
Thanks everybody coming out for this.
感谢大家为此而来。
We're going to line our bikes up facing Market Common.
我们要把自行车排成一排，面向公共市场。
So when he comes through, we're going to be about an eighth mile wide.
所以当他过来时，我们的宽度大约是八英里。
And he'll be able to see us, see what's going on.
他将能够看到我们，看到发生了什么。
If you're a felon or anything, leave your guns behind.
如果你是重罪犯或其他什么人，请留下你的枪。
You never know.
你永远不知道。
They might have Secret Service there.
他们可能在那里设有特勤局。
You got a permit, by all means carry it.
你有许可证，一定要携带它。
That's all I got.
这就是我所得到的。
Thanks everybody coming out.
谢谢大家出来。
The rally was held at a biker bar in Myrtle Beach called Suck Bang Blow.
集会在默特尔比奇一家名为 Suck Bang Blow 的自行车酒吧举行。
It was explained to me that those are the mechanics of a combustion engine.
有人向我解释说这些是内燃机的机械原理。
I asked this guy Kool-Aid about Trump-- leather vest and tattoos.
我向这个酷爱家伙询问了特朗普的情况——皮背心和纹身。
Well, because, I mean, he's just down to Earth.
嗯，因为，我的意思是，他很脚踏实地。
I know he's kind of loud and obnoxious.
我知道他有点吵闹而且令人讨厌。
But so are all of us bikers.
但我们所有的骑车人也是如此。
Kool-Aid's never voted in his life.
酷爱一生中从未投票过。
Today, he's throwing a Trump rally to welcome him to town.
今天，他将举办一场特朗普集会，欢迎他来到小镇。
And he has voter registration cards stacked up at the bar.
他在酒吧里堆放着选民登记卡。
Steve, he'd never voted before, either.
史蒂夫，他以前也从未投票过。
Never ever did I give two craps who ran because I figure we're gonna get screwed anyway.
我从来没有骂过两个逃跑的人，因为我觉得我们无论如何都会被搞砸。
But there's a difference now.
但现在有区别了。
When did you register?
你什么时候注册的？
Steve Three days ago.
史蒂夫三天前。
For Trump?
为了特朗普？
Steve Absolutely.
史蒂夫 绝对。
Just figured I got to do it because, you know what?
只是觉得我必须这样做，因为，你知道吗？
Every little bit helps.
每一点点都有帮助。
My one vote might not be much, but you know what?
我的一票可能不多，但你知道吗？
It might be the one that makes it rock.
这可能是让它摇滚的原因。
I went registered last week so I can vote me some Trump.
我上周登记了，这样我就可以投票给我一些特朗普。
Vote me some Trump?
给我投一些特朗普票？
Woman Heck, yeah.
女人哎呀，是啊。
We need somebody, or it's going to hell in a hand basket.
我们需要有人，否则就会被扔进手提篮里。
I knew these guys, first time voters, wouldn't care that they might split the Republican Party.
我知道这些人，第一次选民，不会关心他们可能会分裂共和党。
They never felt at home there.
他们在那里从来没有感到宾至如归。
But Barry, Tony's radio nemesis/radio frenemy, is different.
但托尼的无线电宿敌/亦敌亦友的巴里却不同。
So I asked him, if you go for Trump, are you going to split the party?
所以我问他，如果你支持特朗普，你会分裂政党吗？
Who cares?
谁在乎？
I don't care.
我不在乎。
The Republican Party needed to be split a long time ago.
共和党很早就需要分裂了。
They troll the evangelicals.
他们恶搞福音派。
They pandered to the conservatives.
他们迎合保守派。
And when they get in there, they do what their lobbyists tell them to do.
当他们进入那里时，他们就会按照说客的指示去做。
So if the Republican Party splits, so what?
那么，如果共和党分裂了，那又怎样呢？
All I care about America at the end of the day.
归根结底，我只关心美国。
Tony, though, really cares.
不过，托尼真的很关心。
He does not want to lose the election.
他不想输掉选举。
And he wonders, what does it mean about his listeners if they follow this pied piper?
他想知道，如果他的听众追随这个花衣笛手，这意味着什么？
I think that's what's led to my current level of frustration.
我认为这就是导致我目前沮丧程度的原因。
And I admit to you that it's greater than in the past.
我向你承认，它比过去更好。
And I probably, quite frankly, need to dial it back a little bit because I don't need to be consumed by this.
坦率地说，我可能需要稍微调整一下，因为我不需要为此消耗精力。
And for the last couple of weeks, I've probably been-- I mean, this has been very heavy on my mind.
在过去的几周里，我可能一直——我的意思是，这件事一直困扰着我。
And then he has this other worry, this other way of thinking about it.
然后他就有了另一种担忧，另一种思考方式。
This worry is so personal, at first he didn't want to talk about it.
这种担忧是如此个人化，一开始他并不想谈论它。
I want to tell you something off the record.
我想私下告诉你一些事情。
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
Oh.
哦。
But after we talked a little, he agreed to go back on mic.
但在我们聊了一会儿之后，他同意重新使用麦克风。
I mean, there've been times when I've thought about just giving up the radio show because I don't want to be one who fosters the unreasonable level of anger that's out there.
我的意思是，有几次我想过放弃广播节目，因为我不想成为一个助长那里不合理的愤怒的人。
Do you think that by giving airtime to some of this stuff--
你是否认为通过给这些东西一些播出时间——
Well, I have callers who call in that are very angry now.
嗯，现在有打电话过来的人非常生气。
And they express things that-- and I push back.
他们所表达的东西——而我却予以反驳。
But I just wonder how many people are hearing that and going, he's right.
但我只是想知道有多少人听到了这句话并离开了，他是对的。
And Dr. Beam needs to get with the program.
比姆博士需要参与该计划。
You know?
你知道？
And so I debate sometimes with myself, am I not doing anything except giving a platform?
所以我有时会跟自己争论，我除了提供平台之外什么都没做吗？
Look, Jesus Christ, when he walked this earth, condemned the zealots.
看，耶稣基督在世上行走时，谴责了狂热分子。
He condemned the establishment, the Pharisees and the Sadducees, because they were hypocrites.
他谴责当权派、法利赛人和撒都该人，因为他们是伪君子。
But he also condemned those who wanted to march against Rome in a violent way.
但他也谴责那些想以暴力方式游行反对罗马的人。
That was not the path that Jesus talked about.
那不是耶稣所说的道路。
Jesus was the Prince of Peace.
耶稣是和平之君。
He was a reconciler.
他是一个调和者。
I know that's what he's done in my life.
我知道这就是他在我生命中所做的事情。
And I want to be that to represent him in the world.
我想成为他在世界上的代表。
I don't want to be somebody that pours gas on a fire.
我不想成为火上浇油的人。
I want to be a reconciler who brings peace in a situation where anger seems to be the prevailing thought process.
我想成为一个和解者，在愤怒似乎成为主流思维过程的情况下带来和平。
And I don't know how best to do that.
我不知道如何最好地做到这一点。
But if I can't do it with a microphone, I'd just rather turn it off.
但如果我无法使用麦克风来做到这一点，我宁愿将其关闭。
It's not Trump that bothers me.
困扰我的不是特朗普。
What bothers me is that Trump is popular.
令我困扰的是特朗普很受欢迎。
That story from Zoe Chace, one of the produces of our show.
这个故事来自我们节目的制作人之一佐伊·查斯 (Zoe Chace)。
She'll be doing campaign coverage for us all this year.
今年她将为我们所有人做竞选报道。
Coming up, mistaking a guy who does exist for one who does not exist.
即将到来，将一个确实存在的人误认为是一个不存在的人。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
This is American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's show, I Thought I Knew You-- stories of people misperceiving other people.
今天的节目，我以为我认识你——人们误解他人的故事。
Sometimes it slowly dawns on them that they have it wrong.
有时他们会慢慢意识到自己错了。
Sometimes it comes out quickly.
有时它很快就会出来。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, My Little Bruce Dupe.
第二幕，我的小布鲁斯·杜普。
Well, so far on our program, we have focused on people who are misperceived.
嗯，到目前为止，在我们的计划中，我们关注的是那些被误解的人。
But they don't want to be misperceived.
但他们不想被误解。
They're not doing things to create misperceptions.
他们所做的事情并不是为了制造误解。
But, of course, sometimes people deliberately mislead other people about who they are.
但是，当然，有时人们会故意误导别人关于他们的身份。
Comedian Jay Larson has this example--
喜剧演员杰·拉尔森举了这样一个例子——
Your cell phone rings.
你的手机响了。
You don't recognize the number.
你不认识这个号码。
What do you do?
你做什么工作？
Ignore it!
忽略它！
Jay Larson Ignore it.
杰·拉尔森 忽略它。
Send it to voicemail.
将其发送到语音信箱。
Yeah.
是的。
Not this guy.
不是这个人。
I answer it.
我回答。
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Opportunity, potential, who knows?
机会、潜力，谁知道呢？
Who knows what it is?
谁知道那是什么？
The other day, I was driving down the 405.
有一天，我开车沿着 405 公路行驶。
Traffic.
交通。
Phone rings.
电话响了。
917, New York.
917，纽约。
I'm like, ooh, I don't know the number.
我想，哦，我不知道号码。
I hit talk.
我点击说话。
I go, "hello?" Guy on the other line goes, "hey, Bruce.
我说：“喂？”另一条线上的家伙说道：“嘿，布鲁斯。
What's going on?"
发生什么事了？”
My name's Jay, not Bruce.
我叫杰伊，不是布鲁斯。
So clearly, "I go, nothing much, man.
很明显，“我走了，没什么，伙计。
What's going on with you?"
你怎么了？”
And he goes, "I'll tell you what's going on.
他说：“我来告诉你发生了什么事。
I just got an email about the budget.
我刚刚收到一封有关预算的电子邮件。
It's supposed to be $15,000.
应该是15,000美元。
Now it's $10,000.
现在是10,000美元。
I'd like to know what the hell's going on."
我想知道到底发生了什么事。”
And I grabbed the steering wheel.
我抓住了方向盘。
It was like, all right.
就像，好吧。
Focus.
重点。
Focus right now.
现在集中注意力。
Your name is Bruce.
你的名字是布鲁斯。
There's a budget.
有预算。
It's $15,000.
这是 15,000 美元。
Now it's $10,000.
现在是10,000美元。
No one's happy about it.
没有人对此感到高兴。
Just go with this.
就这样吧。
Go with this.
就这样吧。
I didn't know much.
我知道的不多。
I only knew what he told me.
我只知道他告诉我的话。
So I just said it back.
所以我才回了一句。
And I go, "$10,000?
我说：“10,000 美元？
It's supposed to be $15,000!"
应该是15,000美元！”
He goes, "yeah, well, I just got an email, and now it's $10,000."
他说：“是的，好吧，我刚刚收到一封电子邮件，现在是 10,000 美元。”
And I go, "hey, I don't know what to tell you, man.
我说：“嘿，我不知道该告诉你什么，伙计。
I'm on the road right now.
我现在正在路上。
I haven't even seen the email."
我什至没有看到电子邮件。”
And he goes, "are you behind this?
他说：“这件事是你幕后操纵的吗？
Did you send it out?" Like giving Bruce some attitude, you know what I mean?
你发出去了吗？”就像给布鲁斯一些态度，你明白我的意思吗？
And I'm like, "no way I am taking that.
我想，“我绝对不会接受这个。
There's no way."
没有办法。”
And I go, "listen, bro.
我说：“听着，兄弟。
The budget was $15,000.
预算为 15,000 美元。
We had a couple extra expenditures.
我们有一些额外的支出。
It went up to $16,200.
价格上涨至 16,200 美元。
I reworked it, got it down to $14,700.
我重新设计了它，把它降到了 14,700 美元。
We had $300 to play with.
我们有 300 美元可以玩。
I called it $15,000.
我称之为 15,000 美元。
I sent it out."
我已经发出来了。”
He goes, "yeah?
他说：“是吗？
Well, now it's $10,000!"
好吧，现在是一万美元了！”
And I was like, "oh, my God!
我当时想，“哦，天哪！
That worked!" Stay focused.
成功了！”保持专注。
Stay focused I'm not even enjoying it.
保持专注，我什至不喜欢它。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
Because I can't even laugh.
因为我连笑都笑不出来。
I have to stay-- I'm, like, literally in it.
我必须留下来——我真的就在其中。
I was just in it.
我只是在其中。
He goes, "did Larry OK this?" Now he's throwing Larry at me.
他问道：“拉里同意吗？”现在他把拉里扔给我。
Yeah.
是的。
So I go, "listen.
所以我说：“听着。
I took it to Larry.
我把它拿给拉里。
He said it looked fine.
他说看起来不错。
But I knew it was my ass on the line, so I ran it by Jennifer just in case.
但我知道这是我的命，所以为了以防万一，我让詹妮弗负责。
She said it looked good.
她说看起来不错。
I sent it out."
我已经发出来了。”
He goes, "yeah?
他说：“是吗？
Well, now it's $10,000!"
好吧，现在是一万美元了！”
And I was like, this guy has no idea what's going on over there.
我当时想，这家伙不知道那边发生了什么。
He hasn't talked to Larry.
他还没有和拉里说过话。
He hasn't talked to Jennifer.
他还没有和詹妮弗说过话。
I just made her up.
我刚刚给她化妆了。
Clearly, he has not spoken to Bruce.
显然，他还没有和布鲁斯说过话。
He goes, "listen, man.
他说：“听着，伙计。
What are we gonna do about this?"
对此我们该怎么办？”
I go, "bro, I'm on the road right now.
我说：“兄弟，我现在在路上。
I haven't even seen the email.
我什至没有看到电子邮件。
Why don't you call Larry, check in with him?
你为什么不打电话给拉里，和他联系一下呢？
See what's going on, give me a call back." Literally like throwing the fishing line out, being like, please say yes because that phone call return is going to be amazing.
看看发生了什么，给我回电话。”从字面上看，就像把钓鱼线扔出去一样，请说“是”，因为电话回电将会是惊人的。
And he goes, "listen.
他说：“听着。
Why don't we wait till you get home.
我们为什么不等你回家呢？
You check the email.
你检查一下电子邮件。
You call Larry.
你打电话给拉里。
You call me back."
你给我回电话吧。”
I go, "no, no, bro.
我说：“不，不，兄弟。
Larry knows way more about this than I do.
拉里对此比我了解得多。
Give him a call, call me back."
给他打电话，再给我回电话。”
He goes, "OK." Hangs up the phone, to which I explode with euphoria because there's a small business in New York somewhere that's crumbling to the ground over $5,000.
他说：“好吧。”挂断电话后，我欣喜若狂，因为纽约某处有一家小企业，价值超过 5,000 美元，已经倒塌。
No one can find Bruce.
没有人能找到布鲁斯。
No one's talked to Larry.
没有人与拉里交谈过。
And they don't know who the hell Jennifer is.
他们根本不知道詹妮弗到底是谁。
Excitement.
激动。
[CHEERING] Not even done.
[欢呼]还没完成。
I get home.
我回家了。
I'm so excited.
我太激动了。
I call some friends, tell them what happened.
我打电话给一些朋友，告诉他们发生了什么事。
I think to myself, you know what?
我心想，你知道吗？
I'm going to save that guy's number, give him a call in a couple days.
我会保存那个人的电话号码，几天后给他打电话。
Check in, touch base.
签到，触摸基地。
See where we're at.
看看我们在哪里。
I save the number on my phone under Random Guy.
我把这个号码保存在手机上的“随机人”下。
He's a random guy.
他是个随意的人。
I don't think about it.
我不考虑这个。
A couple days pass.
几天过去了。
No big deal.
没什么大不了的。
Laying on the couch, watching the game.
躺在沙发上，看比赛。
Phone rings, dining room table.
电话铃声响起，餐桌上。
Watching the game.
观看比赛。
Get up, pick up the phone, look down-- Random Guy.
站起来，拿起电话，低头一看——随机的家伙。
And I think to myself, Random Guy?
我心想，随机的家伙？
I don't know any Random Guy.
我不认识任何随机的人。
Who the hell's Random Guy?
随机家伙到底是谁？
And then I was like, oh!
然后我就想，哦！
Random Guy!
随意的家伙！
Now I'm freaked out.
现在我吓坏了。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
I'm in my house.
我在我家。
They know where I'm at.
他们知道我在哪里。
People's lives have been affected.
人们的生活受到了影响。
But this is who I am.
但这就是我。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
I started this thing.
我开始了这件事。
I'm going to see it through the end.
我会看到最后。
That's how I saw this.
我就是这样看到的。
Put in my ear buds, just get a little distance.
戴上我的耳塞，保持一点距离。
Just get some distance, you know I mean?
保持一定的距离，你明白我的意思吗？
I hit Talk.
我点击了“谈话”。
I go, "hello?" Same guy goes, "hey, Larry, what's going on?" Now he's calling me Larry.
我说：“喂？”同一个人说道：“嘿，拉里，发生了什么事？”现在他叫我拉里。
He knows what's up.
他知道发生了什么事。
But I'm not gonna cave.
但我不会屈服。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
And I go, "nothing much, man.
我说：“没什么，伙计。
What's going on with you?" And he goes, "listen, I got us on conference call with Jenelle and Marie." Like I'm backing down from Jenelle and Marie.
你怎么了？”他说：“听着，我让我们与珍妮尔和玛丽进行了电话会议。”就像我在珍妮尔和玛丽面前退缩一样。
So I go, uh, "hey ladies.
所以我就说，呃，“嘿女士们。
Welcome to the call--" as if to say, welcome to the show.
欢迎来电——”仿佛在说，欢迎来到展会。
Here we go.
开始了。
How long are we going to lie for?
我们还要撒谎多久？
How long do you want me to lie?
你还要我说谎多久？
Because I'm going to go all the way.
因为我要一路走下去。
Marie, she takes the lead.
玛丽，她带头。
She goes, "hey, Larry.
她说：“嘿，拉里。
What time is it where you are?" And I look at the clock, and it's 5:30.
你那里现在几点了？”我看了看时钟，现在是 5 点 30 分。
And they're a New York company.
他们是一家纽约公司。
So I go "8:30.
所以我去“8:30。
It's 8:30." Like, sprinkling more lies and, like, I can fool them.
现在是八点三十分。”就像，撒更多的谎言，就像，我可以愚弄他们。
I can fool them.
我可以愚弄他们。
She goes, "really?
她说：“真的吗？
What's the weather like?" And I go, "weather's nice.
天气怎么样？”我说：“天气很好。
Weather is nice."
天气很好。”
She goes, "really?
她说：“真的吗？
This doesn't sound like Larry."
这听起来不像拉里。”
And I go, "oh, yeah?
我说：“哦，是吗？
Who's it sound like?"
听起来像谁？”
And the guy who called both times, he chirps in.
两次打来电话的人都叽叽喳喳地插了进来。
He's like, "sounds like Bruce!
他说，“听起来像布鲁斯！
Sounds like Bruce!" Like he's gonna blow this case wide open.
听起来像布鲁斯！”好像他要把这个案子彻底公开一样。
And I go, "guys, this isn't Larry and this isn't Bruce."
我说，“伙计们，这不是拉里，这也不是布鲁斯。”
And she goes, "who is this?" And I was like, "I'm just some dude who had nothing better to do than to mess with you guys." Marie did not like that.
她问道：“这是谁？”我当时想，“我只是一个除了惹你们之外没有更好事可做的家伙。”玛丽不喜欢这样。
She got pissed.
她生气了。
She started yelling at me.
她开始对我大喊大叫。
She's like, "we're a small business trying!"
她说：“我们只是一家正在尝试的小企业！”
I'm like, "oh, I know." She's like, "you think this is a joke?"
我说：“哦，我知道。”她说：“你认为这是一个笑话吗？”
I go, "no, you let me ask you something!"
我说：“不，你让我问你一件事！”
And she goes, "what?" And I go, "where we at with the budget?"
她问道：“什么？”我问：“我们的预算在哪里？”
Jay Larson, recorded at the Laugh Factory in Los Angeles.
Jay Larson，在洛杉矶 Laugh Factory 录制。
Amazing, right?
太棒了，对吧？
His website-- jaylarsoncomedy.com.
他的网站——jaylarsoncomedy.com。
Act Three, A Light From the Other Side.
第三幕，来自另一边的光。
I think a lot of kids would be really shocked-- I think the right word is shocked-- at how well their teachers understand them, when teachers are good.
我认为，当老师很好时，很多孩子都会对他们的老师对他们的理解程度感到震惊——我认为正确的词是“震惊”。
Good teachers can talk to you forever about this kid or that kid in their class, their good qualities, their bad qualities.
好的老师可以永远和你谈论他们班上的这个孩子或那个孩子，他们的优点，他们的缺点。
And when you're a student, and there's a teacher you respect, and the teacher thinks badly of you, that is just like a horrible feeling that you may or may not get to correct.
当你是一名学生时，有一位你尊敬的老师，而老师对你的评价很差，这就像一种可怕的感觉，你可能会也可能不会纠正。
Eve Abrams tells this story.
伊芙·艾布拉姆斯讲述了这个故事。
I taught elementary school for 10 years in New York City at this place called The Neighborhood School.
我在纽约市一个叫做邻里学校的地方教了 10 年小学。
It was one of those schools where students call teachers by their first names and where teachers really get to know their students well-- their families, their strengths, their dramas.
在这所学校里，学生们直呼老师的名字，老师们也能真正了解学生——他们的家庭、他们的优势、他们的戏剧。
But sometimes, one kid stands out.
但有时，一个孩子会脱颖而出。
This is a story about one of those kids and his friend and his teacher.
这是一个关于其中一个孩子和他的朋友和老师的故事。
Sofia is the teacher and also a friend of mine.
索菲亚是我的老师，也是我的朋友。
Lilly was our student years ago.
莉莉几年前是我们的学生。
She's 16 now.
她现在16岁了。
And Lilly's classmate Robert was our student, too.
莉莉的同学罗伯特也是我们的学生。
But he's dead, so I'll let Lilly tell you about him.
但他死了，所以我会让莉莉告诉你他的事。
I really had a hard time telling people who had died for a while because I didn't want to say friend.
我真的很难告诉那些已经去世一段时间的人，因为我不想说朋友。
And I didn't want to say best friend because that makes it seem like, my best friend, like-- you know what I mean?
我不想说最好的朋友，因为这看起来像是我最好的朋友，就像——你知道我的意思吗？
And anyone can say that they were his best friend.
任何人都可以说他们是他最好的朋友。
I mean, he lived so close to me, so we'd hang out 24/7.
我的意思是，他住得离我很近，所以我们会 24/7 一起出去玩。
We talked about everything.
我们谈论了一切。
In our school, everyone was pretty quiet and good.
在我们学校，每个人都很安静，很好。
And, like, I don't know.
而且，就像，我不知道。
To me, he just seemed like he was just different, and he was fun.
对我来说，他看起来就是与众不同，而且很有趣。
And everyone else was boring.
其他人都很无聊。
Teachers never liked him.
老师们从来不喜欢他。
He was probably a little bit rude.
他可能有点粗鲁。
Like, he didn't do his homework.
比如，他没有做作业。
That was a big thing because in the Neighborhood School, everyone was like, "oh, got to do your homework.
这是一件大事，因为在邻里学校，每个人都会说，“哦，必须做作业。
Got to do your homework, or you're not going to go out for recess" and all this stuff.
必须做作业，否则你就不会出去休息”以及所有这些事情。
I mean, whatever.
我的意思是，无论如何。
He'd be, like, never going out for recess because he never did his homework.
他从来不会出去休息，因为他从来不做作业。
Robert didn't defer to adults.
罗伯特不服从大人。
And other kids were drawn to that.
其他孩子也被吸引了。
But he was also sort of hapless.
但他也有点不幸。
He was the kind of kid who when he cut school got caught.
他是那种一逃学就被抓的孩子。
He got kicked out of middle school, which was always, like, really weird to me because there were so many kids that were so much worse.
他被中学开除了，这对我来说总是很奇怪，因为有很多孩子的情况更糟糕。
I mean, there was kids that came in that school like once a week at 10 o'clock and grabbed a girl and left.
我的意思是，有些孩子每周 10 点都会来到那所学校，然后抓住一个女孩就离开了。
I had a crush on him, like, the second I saw him.
我一看到他就喜欢上了他。
Fifth grade was the big year that I really had a big crush on him.
五年级是我真正迷恋他的重要一年。
It was just like, oh, my god.
就像，哦，天啊。
I love you.
我爱你。
He one time left me flowers at my door-- it was my birthday-- and knocked on the door and ran away.
有一次，他在我家门口留了花——那天是我的生日——然后敲了敲门就跑了。
And so I opened the door, and there was flowers.
于是我打开门，里面摆满了鲜花。
And I was just like, oh, my god.
我当时就想，哦，天哪。
Oh, my god.
我的天啊。
He loves me!
他爱我！
Like, flowers.
比如，鲜花。
And so I picked it up.
所以我把它捡了起来。
And there was a note.
还有一张纸条。
And it said from Robert to Lilly.
上面是罗伯特写给莉莉的。
Happy birthday.
生日快乐。
PS, don't get happy, as in, like, whatever.
PS，不要高兴，就像，无论如何。
Don't get happy.
别高兴起来。
Don't think I like you because I'm doing this.
别以为我这样做就喜欢你。
Don't get happy.
别高兴起来。
I was like, but I am happy 'cause you left me flowers.
我当时想，但我很高兴，因为你给我留下了鲜花。
I realized it's actually because I liked him so much as a friend.
我意识到这实际上是因为我非常喜欢他作为朋友。
And I never really had somebody that was a boy that I like so much as a friend.
我从来没有真正拥有一个让我像朋友一样喜欢的男孩。
So I figured I must be in love with him or I must have the-- but, you know, it's also like I just actually always really liked him as a person.
所以我想我一定是爱上了他，或者我一定有——但是，你知道，这也就像我实际上一直非常喜欢他这个人。
That's how Lilly saw Robert.
这就是莉莉眼中的罗伯特。
Sofia saw him differently.
索菲亚对他的看法不同。
After he was in my class, Robert moved on to Sofia's class right next door.
罗伯特进入我的班级后，就转到隔壁索菲亚的班级。
And a lot of times, I'd see and hear them out in the hall together.
很多时候，我会在大厅里一起看到和听到他们。
Mostly, I'd hear Sofia.
大多数情况下，我会听到索菲亚的声音。
She would lecture Robert about homework and effort and attitude, and her voice got really loud and annoyed.
她会向罗伯特讲授作业、努力和态度，她的声音变得很大而且很恼火。
While Sofia lectured, Robert just stood there.
索菲亚讲课时，罗伯特只是站在那里。
Rolling his eyes.
翻白眼。
I mean, it was more a physical manifestation.
我的意思是，这更多的是一种身体表现。
Just kind of listening to me, but not really listening, kind of looking off in the distance, head was at a tilt, arms crossed, kind of waiting for the episode to end.
只是在听我说话，但并没有真正在听，而是看着远处，头倾斜，双臂交叉，有点等待这一集结束。
Sofia had a harder time with Robert than I did.
索菲亚和罗伯特在一起的日子比我更艰难。
He was older by the time she taught him, but his reading wasn't much better.
当她教他的时候，他已经长大了，但他的阅读能力并没有好多少。
And he still struggled with his schoolwork.
他仍然在努力完成学业。
He'd also gotten really good at deflecting all of the things that teachers would try-- ordering, cajoling, tricking.
他还非常擅长转移老师尝试的所有事情——命令、哄骗、欺骗。
Sofia would see Robert around the neighborhood after school, hanging out with older boys, doing nothing much.
索菲亚放学后会看到罗伯特在附近闲逛，和年龄较大的男孩一起出去玩，无所事事。
And it frustrated her to no end that this smart, charming kid seemed headed for a lifetime of dead-end jobs and disappointments.
让她感到无比沮丧的是，这个聪明、迷人的孩子似乎将终生从事没有出路的工作和失望。
At one point, when I was getting near the end of my rope, I talked to his family about making him stay after school in the classroom just so he can get his homework done.
有一次，当我快要束手无策的时候，我和他的家人讨论让他放学后留在教室，这样他就可以完成作业。
And I think we did it for like a week or two.
我想我们花了大约一两周的时间。
And I don't think it was very successful.
我认为这不是很成功。
It wasn't a habit he could replicate at home.
这不是他在家里可以复制的习惯。
Incidents between Sofia and Robert piled up, and the year ended badly between them.
索菲亚和罗伯特之间的事件堆积如山，这一年他们的结局很糟糕。
Someone wrote an obscenity about Sofia on the school wall, up high where only a tall kid could write.
有人在学校的墙上写了一篇关于索菲亚的淫秽文章，高高的墙上只有高个子的孩子才能写字。
And our principal was convinced it was Robert.
我们的校长确信那是罗伯特。
He ended up being banned from the big end-of-the-year party.
他最终被禁止参加大型年终聚会。
When Robert didn't show up at graduation, other kids at the school, including Lilly, blamed Sofia, even though Sofia had nothing to do with it.
当罗伯特没有出席毕业典礼时，学校的其他孩子，包括莉莉，都指责索菲亚，尽管索菲亚与这件事无关。
Not going had been Robert's decision.
罗伯特决定不去。
Mostly, Sofia felt she'd done the best that she could with Robert.
大多数情况下，索菲亚觉得她已经对罗伯特尽力了。
But she wasn't sure.
但她不确定。
She felt bad when she thought about him-- bad for not reaching him, bad for having been hard on him.
当她想到他时，她感觉很糟糕——因为没有联系到他而感到难过，因为对他太严厉而感到难过。
And for the next few years, she dreaded seeing Robert around the neighborhood, especially with other kids she knew, like Lilly.
在接下来的几年里，她害怕在附近见到罗伯特，尤其是和她认识的其他孩子在一起，比如莉莉。
And then one day, Sofia heard Robert was dead, stabbed to death for reasons no one knows even today.
然后有一天，索菲亚听说罗伯特死了，被刺死的原因至今无人知晓。
He had just turned 16 two weeks before.
两周前他刚刚满 16 岁。
After Robert was killed, I had this nightmare.
罗伯特被杀后，我做了这个噩梦。
I dreamt that, I don't know, two or three of the girls in that class were really upset with me.
我梦见，我不知道，那个班的两三个女孩真的很生我的气。
And they were talking about the time when I had asked Robert to stay after school and work on his homework.
他们正在谈论有一次我让罗伯特放学后留下来做作业。
One of the girls had accused me of preventing him from joining a basketball league.
其中一个女孩指责我阻止他加入篮球联盟。
And she said that because I didn't let him do that and because I made him stay after school to work on his homework, he didn't get a chance to make better friends and do something that was better for him and more productive.
她说，因为我不让他这样做，也因为我让他放学后留下来做作业，所以他没有机会结交更好的朋友，也没有机会做一些对他来说更好、更有成效的事情。
And I really felt like maybe they have something there.
我真的觉得他们可能有一些东西。
If nothing else had happened, Robert would have stayed like that in Sofia's head for years, a kid she always had regrets about, always wished she'd done a better job with.
如果没有发生其他事情，罗伯特多年来都会像索菲亚那样留在索菲亚的脑海里，一个她总是后悔的孩子，总是希望她能做得更好。
But about six weeks after Robert died, Lilly came back to her old elementary school and showed up in Sofia's classroom out of the blue.
但罗伯特去世后大约六周，莉莉回到了原来的小学，突然出现在索菲亚的教室里。
And she did something none of our students had ever done.
她做了我们学生从未做过的事情。
I was surprised to see her, of all people, in my room, in my class, visiting me.
我很惊讶地看到她，在我的房间里，在我的班级里，在所有人中来看望我。
And then she said, well, I wanted to give you this.
然后她说，好吧，我想给你这个。
And she handed me a note that she'd written.
她递给我一张她写的便条。
And then she left.
然后她就离开了。
And then when I read the note, I couldn't believe-- I just couldn't believe it.
然后当我读到这张纸条时，我简直不敢相信——我简直不敢相信。
I had to read the letter over again.
我不得不再读一遍这封信。
I keep it in my wallet.
我把它放在钱包里。
I wanted to frame it, but sometimes I feel like I just need to read that letter again, just to remind me.
我想把它框起来，但有时我觉得我只需要再读一遍那封信，只是为了提醒我。
Dear Sofia, This is a letter of appreciation to you from me and Rob.
亲爱的索菲亚： 这是我和罗布写给您的一封感谢信。
Thank you very much for coming to Rob's wake.
非常感谢您来参加罗布的守灵活动。
I know it would have meant so much to him to see how many people showed up.
我知道看到有这么多人出现对他来说意义重大。
In the past three years-- well, four years-- since me and Rob left the Neighborhood School, we have been best friends, together every day.
自从我和罗布离开邻里学校以来，过去三年——嗯，四年——我们一直是最好的朋友，每天都在一起。
I just wanted to let you know how much Rob appreciated what you did for him as a teacher.
我只是想让你知道罗布非常感谢你作为一名老师为他所做的一切。
Whenever we would talk about the past, he said that he understood everything you did for him and that he was grateful for it.
每当我们谈论过去时，他都会说他理解你为他所做的一切，并且对此心怀感激。
He showed me that people care for you.
他向我展示了人们关心你。
That's why sometimes they are harsh.
这就是为什么有时他们很严厉。
For that reason, I thank you for teaching it to him.
因此，我感谢你教给他。
Rob always liked when people showed him they cared.
罗布总是喜欢人们向他表示关心。
He cared for you very much.
他非常关心你。
Hope to see you soon.
希望很快能见到你。
Lilly Torres.
莉莉·托雷斯。
Lilly wrote the note to Sofia on an impulse while she was grieving.
莉莉在悲伤的时候一时冲动给索菲亚写了这张纸条。
She wasn't sure if it was the right thing to do, or if it was weird, or even if Robert would approve.
她不确定这样做是否正确，或者是否奇怪，甚至罗伯特是否会批准。
But before she could talk herself out of it, she sat down at her kitchen counter and wrote it on a pink Post-it.
但在她说服自己放弃之前，她坐在厨房柜台前，把它写在一张粉红色的便利贴上。
I think the thing is, I really wanted people to know that he was a really great person.
我认为问题是，我真的想让人们知道他是一个非常伟大的人。
I mean, you know, teachers were just always not liking him.
我的意思是，你知道，老师们总是不喜欢他。
And I just maybe thought, yeah, maybe even if one teacher that he had knew that he liked them or that-- you know, not to change his reputation with every teacher that he ever had.
我只是想，是的，也许即使他认识的一位老师喜欢他们，或者——你知道，也不要改变他在每一位老师中的声誉。
But I was just trying to take a little bit of that off of his name because I don't think he really deserved any bad at all.
但我只是想从他的名字中去掉一点，因为我认为他根本不应该受到任何不好的对待。
He was so mature about that whole thing about her.
他对她的一切都非常成熟。
And I wasn't at all.
而我根本就不是。
And I wanted-- I thought maybe by showing her that that she would know that he actually turned out pretty well.
我想——我想也许通过向她展示她会知道他实际上表现得很好。
He said, "I'm not mad because I think that she was trying to do the best thing that she could for me." Because we were talking about Sofia.
他说：“我没有生气，因为我认为她正在尽力为我做最好的事情。”因为我们正在谈论索菲亚。
I was just kind of like, "she didn't know how to handle you."
我只是觉得，“她不知道如何对付你。”
And he was like, "what are you talking about, she didn't know how to handle me?
他说，“你在说什么，她不知道如何对付我？
I was bad.
我很糟糕。
And she was just trying to help me." And he said that he was thankful that she took the time out to even care about him, even if it was yelling or whatever it was.
她只是想帮助我。”他说他很感激她抽出时间来关心他，即使是大喊大叫或者其他什么。
He said that it showed him that she cared.
他说这表明她在乎他。
Sofia never wrote back to Lilly.
索菲亚从未给莉莉回信。
She'd wanted to find the perfect way to thank her, but she couldn't decide what to say.
她想找到一个完美的方式来感谢她，但她不知道该说什么。
And then she figured too much time had passed.
然后她觉得时间已经过去太多了。
Though Lilly doesn't see it that way.
尽管莉莉并不这么看。
It's fine if she doesn't write me back or if she does.
她不给我回信或者给我回信都没关系。
I don't think it's ever too late.
我认为一切都还不算太晚。
You just never know what people need to know.
你永远不知道人们需要知道什么。
Until I spoke to her, Lilly had no idea how much her note had meant to Sofia, that Sofia kept the note in her wallet, that it had lifted away years of guilt.
在我和莉莉交谈之前，莉莉并不知道她的便条对索菲亚意味着什么，索菲亚将这张便条放在她的钱包里，它消除了多年来的内疚。
For Lilly, the note was about saving Robert, the part of him that was left in the world.
对于莉莉来说，这张纸条是为了拯救罗伯特，他留在世界上的那一部分。
She hadn't realized that it would also rescue Sofia.
她没有意识到这也会拯救索菲亚。
Eve Abrams.
伊芙·艾布拉姆斯。
That's actually a story that we first broadcast eight years ago.
这实际上是我们八年前首次播出的故事。
Sofia is still a teacher at the same school.
索菲亚仍然是同一所学校的老师。
Lilly, the 16-year-old, now has a master's in music business and works at Electric Lady Studios.
16 岁的莉莉现在拥有音乐商业硕士学位，在 Electric Lady Studios 工作。
Act Four.
第四幕。
OK, so our theme today is I Thought I Knew You.
好的，所以我们今天的主题是我以为我认识你。
And Act Four of our show today is titled I Thought I Knew U2.
我们今天的节目第四幕的标题是“我以为我知道 U2”。
There's this podcast about U2, the band U2, that's done by Adam Scott from Parks and Rec and Scott Aukerman, who you may know from Comedy Bang Bang!
有一个关于 U2 乐队 U2 的播客，由 Parks and Rec 的 Adam Scott 和 Scott Aukerman 制作，您可能在喜剧 Bang Bang 中认识他们！
And, you know, they're really into U2, as you would expect from people who are making a podcast about U2.
而且，您知道，他们真的很喜欢 U2，正如您对制作有关 U2 播客的人所期望的那样。
So they sit and they talk about the band, and they break down their albums, that kind of thing.
所以他们坐下来谈论乐队，然后分解他们的专辑，诸如此类的事情。
And they did this thing not long ago where into this den of intense U2 fandom, they brought somebody who knows nothing about U2, a comedian named Todd Glass, who also has his own podcast.
不久前他们做了这件事，他们把一个对 U2 一无所知的人带进了这个 U2 狂热粉丝的巢穴，他是一位名叫托德·格拉斯 (Todd Glass) 的喜剧演员，他也有自己的播客。
No relation to me, by the way.
顺便说一句，与我无关。
And what happens is just this very fun to listen to matter-antimatter collision.
所发生的事情就是聆听物质与反物质的碰撞非常有趣。
Todd Glass explains that he doesn't know really much about music, about any band.
托德·格拉斯解释说，他对音乐、对任何乐队都不太了解。
And let's just pick it up from there.
让我们从那里开始吧。
U2 I know-- here's when it comes into the part I don't know.
U2 我知道——现在就到了我不知道的部分了。
The lead singer gets-- of U2, what is his name?
U2 的主唱，他叫什么名字？
We're not going to tell you.
我们不会告诉你。
Todd Glass He gets teased a lot for taking himself too seriously.
托德·格拉斯（Todd Glass） 他因过于认真地对待自己而受到很多嘲笑。
Like, he's in the world hunger--
就像，他在这个世界上感到饥饿——
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
是啊，是啊，是啊。
Scott Aukerman We're not going to tell you anything.
斯科特·奥克曼：我们不会告诉你任何事情。
I want to hear everything you know about U2.
我想听听你对 U2 的了解。
Well, I know that, oh, there's so much right on the-- there's a song about, about, uh-- isn't there a song that he did for some big, like, event to raise money for some-- like it was like really-- I'm sure there's a lot of songs.
嗯，我知道，哦，有很多关于 - 有一首关于，关于，呃 - 是不是有一首他为一些大型活动创作的歌曲，为某些人筹集资金 - 就像真的一样 - 我确信有很多歌曲。
But this was written for one thing particular.
但这是为了一件特别的事情而写的。
No?
不？
No. I don't know.
不，我不知道。
I'm just wondering what you know.
我只是想知道你知道什么。
Goddammit, can't you give me his first name?
该死的，你不能告诉我他的名字吗？
I'm picturing him with his big glasses.
我想象着他戴着大眼镜的样子。
And he has his hair sort of thinning up top.
而且他的头顶头发有些稀疏。
What else about U2?
U2还有什么？
Scott Aukerman What else do you know about U2?
Scott Aukerman 关于 U2 您还了解什么？
Life experiences?
生活经历？
Anything.
任何事物。
I just know he wears those-- Scott Aukerman Any contact you--
我只知道他戴着那些——斯科特·奥克曼（Scott Aukerman） 有任何联系方式吗——
Songs?
歌曲？
Todd Glass Big glasses.
托德玻璃 大眼镜。
No, I don't-- if you told me a song, I would genuinely, like, as it's coming out your mouth.
不，我不——如果你告诉我一首歌，我会真诚地喜欢，因为它是从你嘴里出来的。
One of those things.
其中之一。
I'd be like, oh, yeah!
我会说，哦，是啊！
So that's what you know.
这就是你所知道的。
You could not even tell us one name of one song.
你甚至不能告诉我们一首歌的名字。
No. But if you played songs-- Scott Aukerman Can I play something?
不。但是如果你演奏歌曲——Scott Aukerman 我可以演奏一些东西吗？
I would know if you played something.
我会知道你是否玩过什么东西。
But seriously, don't tell me if it's going to be it or not.
但说真的，别告诉我是否会这样。
Don't just play his song.
不要只播放他的歌。
I'll tell you if it's his song or not in a heartbeat, I bet.
我敢打赌，我会立刻告诉你这是否是他的歌。
OK.
好的。
So I'll play a song.
那我就放一首歌吧。
Todd Glass And I'll know if it's his song or not, in a heartbeat, I would imagine.
托德·格拉斯（Todd Glass）：我想，我会立刻知道这是否是他的歌。
Maybe I'm wrong.
也许我错了。
OK.
好的。
So I'm going to play a song.
所以我要演奏一首歌。
You tell me if this is a U2 song sung by Bono.
你告诉我这是否是Bono 演唱的U2 歌曲。
OK.
好的。
And I'm gonna-- just so you know, I think I could know pretty quick.
我会——只是让你知道，我想我很快就能知道。
[MUSIC - "BAKER STREET" BY GERRY RAFFERTY]
[音乐 - GERRY RAFFERTY 的“贝克街”]
OK.
好的。
Todd Glass Would I be right to say that?
托德·格拉斯 我这么说对吗？
You are.
你是。
That was Gerry Rafferty, "Baker Street."
那是格里·拉弗蒂，《贝克街》。
Well, the next one is gonna be him probably.
嗯，下一个可能就是他了。
All right.
好的。
Here we go.
开始了。
Ready?
准备好？
[MUSIC - "HEY NINETEEN" BY STEELY DAN]
[音乐 - STEELY DAN 的“嘿十九”]
No. No. Scott Aukerman You're right.
不，不，斯科特·奥克曼，你是对的。
This is Steely Dan, "Hey Nineteen." All right.
我是斯蒂利·丹，《嘿十九岁》。好的。
One of these is gonna be U2.
U2就是其中之一。
OK.
好的。
Scott Aukerman All right.
斯科特·奥克曼 好吧。
You ready?
你准备好了吗？
Uh-huh.
嗯嗯。
[MUSIC - "BUDDY HOLLY" BY WEEZER]
[音乐 - WEEZER 的“BUDDY HOLLY”]
You are right.
你是对的。
That is Weezer, "Buddy Holly."
那是威泽，“巴迪·霍利”。
This is one of the greatest moments of my life, just listening to this.
这是我一生中最伟大的时刻之一，聆听这个。
All right.
好的。
Here we go.
开始了。
Todd Glass At this point, it's got to be it.
托德·格拉斯 (Todd Glass) 在这一点上，必须如此了。
[MUSIC - "SLEDGEHAMMER" BY PETER GABRIEL]
[音乐 - 彼得·加布里埃尔的《大锤》]
Yes.
是的。
No. Wait.
不，等等。
Hold on, hold on, hold on!
坚持住，坚持住，坚持住！
OK.
好的。
Don't-- let me answer.
别——让我来回答。
This is I'm older, but yes.
这是我年纪大了，但是是的。
It's an older work of his, but yes.
这是他的一部较旧的作品，但是是的。
Incorrect.
不正确。
This is Peter Gabriel, "Sledgehammer."
这是彼得·加布里埃尔，“大锤”。
Ah, [BLEEP].
啊，[哔]。
I knew it wasn't it, but here's what happened-- my instincts where that it wasn't it.
我知道不是这样的，但事情是这样的——我的直觉告诉我不是这样的。
But I thought, well, how many will he play before it's it?
但我想，好吧，在比赛结束之前他会打多少场比赛？
So I said, don't trust your instincts.
所以我说，不要相信你的直觉。
Can I just play you a song?
我可以给你放一首歌吗？
Todd Glass Well, yeah.
托德·格拉斯 嗯，是的。
Finally, at this point, I think it would be better for me.
最后，在这一点上，我认为这对我来说会更好。
All right.
好的。
I'm trying to think of what song you would know.
我正在想你会知道哪首歌。
All right.
好的。
OK.
好的。
OK.
好的。
Here's-- all right.
这是——好吧。
This is-- OK.
这是——好吧。
I think this is the song that you would know.
我想这就是你会知道的歌曲。
Hold on.
坚持，稍等。
[MUSIC - "WHERE EVERYBODY KNOWS YOUR NAME" BY GARY PORTNOY]
[音乐 - “每个人都知道你的名字”，作者：GARY PORTNOY]
No, this isn't him.
不，这不是他。
No. Adam Scott This is him.
不，亚当·斯科特，这就是他。
Scott Aukerman I'm pretty sure this is him.
斯科特·奥克曼 我很确定这就是他。
This is definitely him.
这绝对是他。
Scott Aukerman This isn't him?
斯科特·奥克曼 这不是他吗？
All right, look.
好吧，看吧。
Scott Aukerman All right.
斯科特·奥克曼 好吧。
No bull [BLEEP].
没有公牛[BLEEP]。
Play the song.
播放歌曲。
Look me in the eye, and play a real song.
看着我的眼睛，然后播放一首真正的歌曲。
And stop [BLEEP] around here.
并在附近停下来[BLEEP]。
All right.
好的。
I got to find it.
我必须找到它。
Todd Glass I'll be able to tell.
托德·格拉斯 我会知道的。
I got to find it.
我必须找到它。
Todd Glass Just play the song.
托德·格拉斯 只要播放这首歌即可。
Seriously.
严重地。
OK.
好的。
Uh-- Todd Glass Scott, look me in the eye!
呃——托德·格拉斯·斯科特，看着我的眼睛！
I'll recognize it.
我会认出来的
Scott Aukerman This is probably U2's most famous song, I would say, out of all of them.
Scott Aukerman 我想说，这可能是 U2 所有歌曲中最著名的歌曲。
[MUSIC - "BLUEBERRY HILL" BY FATS DOMINO]
[音乐 - FATS DOMINO 的“蓝莓山”]
I knew this was them.
我知道这就是他们。
OK.
好的。
Now really play their song.
现在真正播放他们的歌曲。
OK.
好的。
Here's the real-- Todd Glass Now I really do want to hear it.
这是真实的——托德·格拉斯现在我真的很想听听。
All right.
好的。
Here's a new song.
这是一首新歌。
Is this U2?
这是U2吗？
[MUSIC - "I STILL HAVEN'T FOUND WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR" BY U2]
[音乐 - U2 的“我仍然没有找到我正在寻找的东西”]
Yes.
是的。
I know this song.
我知道这首歌。
Jesus Christ, you know how exhausted I am?
天哪，你知道我有多累吗？
Yeah, I would imagine.
是的，我会想象。
Scott Aukerman Oh, that was fun.
斯科特·奥克曼哦，那很有趣。
I'm literally out of breath.
我简直喘不过气来。
Adam Scott I could have done that forever, though.
不过，亚当·斯科特我本可以永远这样做。
Just listened to--
刚刚听到——
I loved it.
我喜欢它。
[MUSIC - "I STILL HAVEN'T FOUND WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR" BY U2]
[音乐 - U2 的“我仍然没有找到我正在寻找的东西”]
Ira Glass Adam Scott, Scott Aukerman, and Todd Glass from the podcast You Talkin' U2 to Me?
Ira Glass 播客 You Talkin' U2 to Me? 中的 Adam Scott、Scott Aukerman 和 Todd Glass
Full episodes at earwolf.com.
完整剧集请访问 Earwolf.com。
Our program was produced today by Jonathan Menjivar and myself with Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Neil Drumming, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, Miki Meek, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, Lilly Sullivan, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Jonathan Menjivar 和我本人以及 Zoe Chace、Sean Cole、Neil Drumming、Stephanie Foo、Chana Joffe-Walt、Miki Meek、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp、Lilly Sullivan 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Our senior producer is Brian Reed.
我们的高级制片人是布莱恩·里德。
Our editor is Joel Lovell.
我们的编辑是乔尔·洛弗尔。
Julie Snyder is our editorial consultant.
朱莉·斯奈德是我们的编辑顾问。
Our technical director is Matt Tierney.
我们的技术总监是马特·蒂尔尼。
Research help from Christopher Swetala.
克里斯托弗·斯维塔拉 (Christopher Swetala) 提供研究帮助。
Production help from Lyra Smith.
Lyra Smith 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our production manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson's our business operations manager.
Elise Bergerson 是我们的业务运营经理。
Elna Baker scouts stories for the show.
艾尔娜·贝克为节目寻找故事。
Kimberly Henderson is our office coordinator.
Kimberly Henderson 是我们的办公室协调员。
Music help today from Damien Gray and from Rob Geddis.
今天达米恩·格雷和罗布·格迪斯的音乐为我们提供了帮助。
Adam Mansbach, who told the story about the real estate agent at the beginning of the program, is the author of several books, including Go the [BLEEP] to Sleep.
亚当·曼斯巴赫 (Adam Mansbach) 在节目开头讲述了有关房地产经纪人的故事，他是几本书的作者，其中包括《按着[BLEEP]睡觉》。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
He was helping me move and swiped one of my old photo albums.
他正在帮我搬家，还偷走了我的一本旧相册。
Kept it months.
保存了几个月。
Finally, just this week, he gave it back to me and apologized.
最后，就在本周，他把它还给了我并道歉。
Yo man, your album was really significant to me.
伙计，你的专辑对我来说真的很重要。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - "I STILL HAVEN'T FOUND WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR" BY U2]
[音乐 - U2 的“我仍然没有找到我正在寻找的东西”]
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。