575: Poetry of Propaganda - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #575 | December 18, 2015 575: Poetry of Propaganda Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 575 集 | 2015 年 12 月 18 日 575：宣传诗 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass OK, this just in.
序言 Ira Glass 好的，这就是。
Sometimes things are not what they seem.
有时事情并不像看上去的那样。
Big news, I know.
我知道这是个大新闻。
Here's an interesting example of it.
这是一个有趣的例子。
When Damien Cave moved to Mexico and started reporting there for The New York Times, a few months in, he noticed that when he would get onto an airplane and flip through the in-flight magazine, there would be these ads for tourists-- you know, those glossy, beautiful pictures of mountains, and river rafting, and nature, and "come visit" kinds of ads-- for places that he knew were centers of drug violence and gang violence.
当达米恩·凯夫搬到墨西哥并开始为《纽约时报》报道时，几个月后，他注意到当他登上飞机并翻阅机上杂志时，会出现这些针对游客的广告——你知道，那些光鲜亮丽的山脉、漂流和大自然的照片，以及“来参观”之类的广告——他知道这些地方是毒品暴力和帮派暴力的中心。
I mean, it basically became the standard operating procedure for state after state.
我的意思是，它基本上成为一个又一个州的标准操作程序。
As the violence moved, the ads popped up in new places.
随着暴力事件的蔓延，广告会出现在新的地方。
And at some point it occurred to him, maybe these ads could be a useful reporting tool.
在某个时候，他突然想到，也许这些广告可能是一个有用的报告工具。
You know, Mexico is a place that there's just no transparency.
你知道，墨西哥是一个没有透明度的地方。
And the government never gave us reliable statistics on deaths and murders.
政府从未向我们提供有关死亡和谋杀的可靠统计数据。
And over time, I started to just realize, OK, if there's a state or a location that's spending a lot of money in a magazine to tell me how beautiful it is, it must be pretty messed up.
随着时间的推移，我开始意识到，好吧，如果有一个州或一个地方在一本杂志上花了很多钱来告诉我它有多美丽，那它一定很混乱。
And so I remember getting on a flight and there was a spread for Vera Cruz, which was a state that was a beach state.
所以我记得登上飞机时发现有飞往韦拉克鲁斯的航班，那是一个海滩州。
It seemed fine, at least as far as we knew at that time.
看起来不错，至少就我们当时所知是这样。
Mm hm.
嗯嗯。
Damien Cave Then I started to sort of dig in a little deeper.
Damien Cave 然后我开始深入挖掘。
And it turns out it was about to explode with all these killings of local journalists, with this whole sort of drug war episode that turned it into this complete just hotbed of violence.
事实证明，当地记者被杀事件即将爆发，整个毒品战争事件将其变成了暴力的温床。
And the ad actually sent you reporting on Vera Cruz?
该广告实际上向您发送了有关韦拉克鲁斯的报道？
It did, and Michoacan, too.
确实如此，米却肯州也是如此。
Like, Michoacan is this state that produces most of the limes we get in the United States, all kinds of avocados.
比如，米却肯州生产美国大部分的酸橙和各种牛油果。
It's this agricultural, beautiful place.
这是一个美丽的农业地方。
And the ad that I saw was emphasizing that.
我看到的广告强调了这一点。
It was green.
它是绿色的。
It was lush.
郁郁葱葱。
It was this place that, you know, it looked gorgeous.
你知道，正是这个地方看起来很华丽。
It looked like the best parts of California that you would want to go visit.
它看起来是你想去参观的加州最好的地方。
And I knew that it was a state that was a little bit troubled.
我知道这是一个有点麻烦的状态。
But that ad sort of said to me, OK, it must be even more troubled than you think.
但那则广告有点对我说，好吧，它一定比你想象的还要麻烦。
And sure enough, when I got there, this was a state that became this meth capital and this hotbed of vigilantism.
果然，当我到达那里时，这个州已经成为冰毒之都和私刑活动的温床。
But when I saw the ads, that's when I knew, OK, now it's time to go.
但当我看到广告时，我就知道，好吧，现在是时候走了。
That is, like, the least effective propaganda imaginable.
这是可以想象到的最无效的宣传。
You are getting exactly the opposite message from the ads than the thing they're trying to get across.
你从广告中得到的信息与他们试图传达的信息完全相反。
True.
真的。
I mean, it became a joke among some of us-- other reporters in the office too-- of, well, this is clearly a place where we should start looking.
我的意思是，这成为我们中一些人（办公室里的其他记者）的一个笑话，这显然是我们应该开始寻找的地方。
Damien never investigated why state after state would take out these ads.
达米安从未调查过为什么一个又一个的州会删除这些广告。
But he suspects they weren't really even targeted at tourists, these expensive photo spreads.
但他怀疑这些昂贵的照片传播甚至并不是真正针对游客的。
He assumes the ads were made by government officials who were trying to reassure business people and local people -- "OK, everything is fine.
他认为这些广告是政府官员制作的，他们试图安抚商界人士和当地人——“好吧，一切都很好。
We got it under control.
我们已经控制住了。
Nothing to see here." The ads were for them.
这里没什么可看的。”这些广告是为他们准备的。
And a little bit for their own government.
也为自己的政府贡献一点。
I think it's a way for the politicians to signal to their bosses, "hey, look, I'm working on this.
我认为这是政客们向他们的老板发出信号的一种方式，“嘿，看，我正在研究这个。
I'm making sure that people are saying what they should be saying about my state.
我确保人们对我的州说了他们应该说的话。
And it won't hurt you, Mr. President, or it won't hurt you, head of the party, because we're doing this for all of us together."
这不会伤害你，总统先生，也不会伤害你，党魁，因为我们正在为我们所有人一起做这件事。”
Damien has spent a lot of time also in Cuba.
达米安也在古巴度过了很多时间。
And he says in Cuba, like in Mexico, there are subtle meanings contained inside government messages, but only if you understand the nuances.
他说，在古巴，就像在墨西哥一样，政府信息中包含着微妙的含义，但前提是你了解其中的细微差别。
In some ways, propaganda is like poetry.
在某些方面，宣传就像诗歌。
You need to know how to read it.
你需要知道如何阅读它。
And some people read it and see it only on one level.
有些人读了它并只在一个层面上看到它。
And then lots of other people see it and read it at a secondary level that's deeper and that may speak to the exact opposite of what it says on that first reading.
然后很多其他人看到它并在更深入的二级水平上阅读它，这可能与第一次阅读时所说的完全相反。
The Cubans will read Granma , the main state organ, for all kinds of little things that they'll see in there that I won't see.
古巴人会阅读主要国家机关报《格拉玛》，了解他们会在那里看到而我看不到的各种小事情。
And so the slightest mention of President Obama, and the degree to which the negativity is calibrated, they can see, oh, this is a sign that the government is warming up to the United States.
所以只要稍微提到奥巴马总统，负面情绪被校准到什么程度，他们就可以看到，哦，这是政府对美国升温的迹象。
Even if it's negative, by the degree of negativity, they know how to interpret that.
即使是负面的，根据负面程度，他们也知道如何解释。
It's complicated.
情况很复杂。
It may seem really simple.
这看起来可能真的很简单。
But I think that people inside these countries are the best interpreters of their own propaganda.
但我认为这些国家的人民是他们自己宣传的最好诠释者。
And the great irony, it seems to me, is the government, in an effort to tell its people what they think they need to hear, they often underestimate the people's ability to deconstruct it and understand it.
在我看来，最大的讽刺是，政府在努力告诉人民他们认为他们需要听到的内容时，往往低估了人民解构和理解它的能力。
Propaganda is like poetry.
宣传就像诗歌。
It is complexity in the form of simplicity, if you know how to read it.
如果你知道如何阅读它，那么它就是简单性中的复杂性。
And today on our program, we have three stories that illustrate that principle-- one from China, one from South America, and one from right here in our own United States of America.
今天在我们的节目中，我们有三个故事来说明这一原则——一个来自中国，一个来自南美，一个来自我们自己的美利坚合众国。
Two of these stories are about propaganda that was so ingenious and worked so well, it's kind of incredible, actually.
其中两个故事是关于宣传的，它们非常巧妙，效果非常好，实际上有点令人难以置信。
It's This American Life from WBEZ Chicago.
这就是 WBEZ 芝加哥的《美国生活》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us, comrades.
和我们在一起，同志们。
Act One, "Guerrilla Marketing." Well, the nation of Colombia has been at war for more than 50 years.
第一幕，“游击营销”。哥伦比亚这个国家已经处于战争状态 50 多年了。
And if you've followed this even a little bit, you know that the main rebel group fighting the government is called the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia.
如果您稍微了解过这一点，您就会知道与政府作战的主要反叛组织被称为哥伦比亚革命武装部队。
The Spanish acronym for that is FARC, spelled F-A-R-C.
西班牙语的缩写是 FARC，拼写为 F-A-R-C。
The FARC are a leftist guerrilla contingent, sometimes funding their operations through ransoms from kidnappings, or through drug running.
哥伦比亚革命武装力量是一支左翼游击队，有时通过绑架赎金或贩毒来资助其行动。
Though it should be said that there have been rightist paramilitary forces aligned with the government who have been involved in similar activities.
不过应该说，也有一些与政府结盟的右翼准军事力量参与了类似的活动。
One byproduct of the war-- and I say this.
战争的一个副产品——我这么说。
I don't want to sound glib or insensitive.
我不想让自己听起来油嘴滑舌或麻木不仁。
But really, the war has yielded a brand of propaganda that is so ambitious and ornate-- well, you'll hear.
但事实上，战争已经产生了一种雄心勃勃、华丽的宣传——好吧，你会听到的。
Producer Sean Cole explains.
制片人肖恩·科尔解释道。
And this particular propaganda campaign began about 10 years ago, when an advertising executive in Colombia named Jose Miguel Sokoloff was offered what had to be the most demanding account of his career.
这项特殊的宣传活动大约开始于 10 年前，当时哥伦比亚一位名叫何塞·米格尔·索科洛夫 (Jose Miguel Sokoloff) 的广告主管收到了他职业生涯中最苛刻的描述。
The client was the government of Colombia.
客户是哥伦比亚政府。
The assignment, convince as many FARC guerrilla fighters as possible to demobilize, to quit the FARC.
这项任务是说服尽可能多的哥伦比亚革命武装力量游击队战士复员，退出哥伦比亚革命武装力量。
In short, please help us end this war.
简而言之，请帮助我们结束这场战争。
A word about Jose-- he's deeply principled and earnest.
关于何塞的一句话——他很有原则性，也很认真。
And if you Google image him, you'll see a lot of v-neck sweaters.
如果你用谷歌搜索他的照片，你会看到很多 V 领毛衣。
His ad agency-- Lowe SSP3 it's called-- has been around since the mid '90s.
他的广告公司——Lowe SSP3——自上世纪 90 年代中期就已存在。
His clients are not usually the defense ministries of South American countries.
他的客户通常不是南美国家的国防部。
We just finished a beautiful project for Lifebuoy, which is an antibacterial soap in India.
我们刚刚完成了 Lifebuoy 的一个漂亮项目，这是印度的一种抗菌肥皂。
They've done ads for dog food, bug repellent.
他们做过狗粮、驱虫剂的广告。
But at the same time, he says, the fundamental mission, whether he's selling that stuff or trying to demobilize guerrillas, is still the same.
但与此同时，他说，基本使命，无论是出售这些东西还是试图遣散游击队，仍然是一样的。
I think about change, about how to change a behavior, how to change a perception.
我思考改变，思考如何改变行为，如何改变看法。
That's the business we're in.
这就是我们从事的业务。
We're in the business of changing minds.
我们从事的是改变思想的工作。
A word about the FARC guerrillas-- they're a heavily-armed fighting force of, at this moment, more than 7,000 rebel soldiers.
关于哥伦比亚革命武装力量游击队，他们是一支全副武装的战斗力量，目前有 7,000 多名叛军士兵。
They wear fatigues, live mainly in jungle encampments.
他们穿着迷彩服，主要生活在丛林营地中。
They're what you think of when you think organized revolutionary militia.
当你想到有组织的革命民兵时，你就会想到它们。
I should say, Jose and his company had done a little bit of political work before this.
应该说，何塞和他的公司在此之前已经做了一些政治工作。
And Jose himself almost takes the conflict personally.
何塞本人几乎将这场冲突视为针对个人的。
It's been going on as long as he's been alive.
只要他还活着，这种情况就一直在发生。
He always says he hasn't lived one day of peace in his country.
他总是说他在自己的国家里没有过过一天和平的日子。
Still, getting guerrillas to demobilize isn't exactly selling beer to soccer fans.
不过，让游击队复员并不完全是向球迷推销啤酒。
They're either true believers in the cause or, more frequently, captives themselves.
他们要么是这项事业的真正信徒，要么更常见的是，他们自己也是俘虏。
If you try to escape the FARC and they catch you, they'll kill you, which is why the government has set up a reentry program to support and protect former guerrillas-- and, of course, to get information out of them.
如果你试图逃离哥伦比亚革命武装力量，他们抓住你，他们就会杀了你，这就是为什么政府制定了重返计划来支持和保护前游击队员——当然，也是为了从他们那里获取信息。
Jose and company figured their first step was to gather some intell themselves.
何塞和他的同伴认为他们的第一步是自己收集一些情报。
And so they interviewed a bunch of guerrillas who had just demobilized to find out what makes someone quit the FARC.
因此，他们采访了一群刚刚复员的游击队员，以找出是什么促使人们退出哥伦比亚革命武装力量。
We heard a story of a man who left the guerrilla because he was ordered to kill a couple that had been accused of something.
我们听说过一个故事，一名男子离开了游击队，因为他被命令杀死一对被指控犯有某事的夫妇。
And he thought they were innocent.
他认为他们是无辜的。
And they were very, very young.
他们非常非常年轻。
And he remembered hearing the girl saying, "kill me first so that I don't have to see my boyfriend die."
他记得听到女孩说：“先杀了我，这样我就不用看着我男朋友死了。”
It's important to note the government forces have been just as brutal.
值得注意的是，政府军也同样残暴。
A lot of women get out of the guerrilla because they want to have a family.
许多妇女退出游击队是因为她们想要有一个家庭。
And in the guerrilla, you're not allowed to have a family.
在游击队里，你不可以有家庭。
So you have to abort any pregnancy.
所以你必须终止任何怀孕。
And that's a forced thing.
这是被迫的事情。
So we heard stories of women who had been through the procedure two or three times.
因此，我们听说过一些女性接受过两三次手术的故事。
And they said, that's it.
他们说，就是这样。
Oh, my god.
我的天啊。
Jose Miguel Sokoloff Yeah, these are not beautiful stories.
何塞·米格尔·索科洛夫 是的，这些都不是美丽的故事。
I could go on.
我还可以继续说下去。
And your reaction would be "oh my god, oh my god, oh my god."
你的反应将是“哦，我的上帝，哦，我的上帝，哦，我的上帝。”
And after gathering all of those stories, they picked three of them and made each one into a 30-second TV ad.
在收集了所有这些故事后，他们挑选了其中的三个并将每个故事制作成一个 30 秒的电视广告。
Apparently a lot of guerrilla camps are outfitted with satellite dishes so they can watch the football matches.
显然，许多游击队营地都配备了卫星天线，以便他们可以观看足球比赛。
The ads were professional and polished, just like the work the company's always done.
这些广告专业而精美，就像该公司一贯所做的工作一样。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Sean Cole He's is saying, "One day I was ordered to execute a couple that was unjustly accused of treason.
[西班牙语] 肖恩·科尔 (Sean Cole) 说：“有一天，我奉命处决一对被不公正指控犯有叛国罪的夫妇。
It was hard.
这很难。
They were just children.
他们只是孩子。
She asked to die first, to not see her boyfriend dead."
她要求先死，不要看到她的男朋友死。”
But we made a mistake.
但我们犯了一个错误。
We did not actually use the guerrillas' voices.
我们实际上并没有使用游击队的声音。
We used actors.
我们用了演员。
And they immediately saw through that.
他们立即看穿了这一点。
And they said, this is not real.
他们说，这不是真的。
This is not how we speak.
我们不是这样说话的。
They're not dumb.
他们并不傻。
Jose Miguel Sokoloff Right.
何塞·米格尔·索科洛夫 对。
It's somebody else telling this stupid story.
这是别人在讲这个愚蠢的故事。
Right.
正确的。
Jose Miguel Sokoloff So when we heard that, we went back to the archives of all the stories we had recorded.
Jose Miguel Sokoloff 因此，当我们听到这个消息时，我们回到了我们记录的所有故事的档案中。
And we asked permission of the guerrillas who had told us these stories to use their voices and put them on the air, slightly modified.
我们请求向我们讲述这些故事的游击队允许使用他们的声音并将其稍作修改后播出。
And then that started being much more effective.
然后这开始变得更加有效。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Sean Cole She says, "They were going to force me to get an abortion, but I didn't let them.
[西班牙语]肖恩·科尔 她说：“他们打算强迫我堕胎，但我没有让他们这么做。
So they punished me by making me clear paths with a machete for six months."
所以他们惩罚我，让我用砍刀清理道路六个月。”
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Sean Cole They made about 100 of these radio ads in the first year, just former guerrillas talking to current guerrillas about why they should quit.
[说西班牙语] Sean Cole 他们在第一年制作了大约 100 个这样的广播广告，只是前游击队员与现任游击队员谈论他们为什么应该退出。
The ads were mainly targeting the foot soldiers, the foundation of the FARC.
这些广告主要针对的是步兵，这是哥伦比亚革命武装力量的基础。
And Jose says it's safe to estimate 2,000 of those lower ranking guerrillas have demobilized since his company started with the radio spots.
何塞表示，可以肯定的是，自从他的公司开始制作广播节目以来，估计有 2,000 名较低级别的游击队员已经复员。
But it wasn't enough, he says, in part because the FARC leaders were telling their soldiers that the government was forcing the ex-guerrillas to say those things in the ads.
但这还不够，他说，部分原因是哥伦比亚革命武装力量领导人告诉他们的士兵，政府强迫前游击队员在广告中说出这些话。
The reason these people are sending you these messages is because they have a gun to their head.
这些人向您发送这些消息的原因是因为他们的头上有枪。
And if they don't send these messages, they're going to get killed.
如果他们不发送这些信息，他们就会被杀。
So don't believe these messages.
所以不要相信这些消息。
These messages are worthless.
这些消息毫无价值。
So they're working a kind of anti-propaganda on the guerrillas on that side.
所以他们正在对那边的游击队进行某种反宣传。
As they should.
正如他们应该的那样。
As they should.
正如他们应该的那样。
Because I think it's their obligation to do so.
因为我认为这样做是他们的义务。
And this is one of the interesting things about Jose as a propagandist.
这是何塞作为宣传员的有趣之处之一。
He's clear-eyed about the fact that this is a war and that both sides are supposed to try and win it.
他清楚地意识到这是一场战争，双方都应该努力赢得战争。
He does have his own personal beliefs.
他确实有自己的个人信仰。
He told me he thinks leftist experiments in Latin America haven't worked.
他告诉我，他认为拉丁美洲的左翼实验没有奏效。
But he says all he wants is for Colombia to be the kind of country where people on the left and people on the right just argue all the time, without killing each other.
但他表示，他希望哥伦比亚成为这样一个国家：左派和右派总是争论，而不互相残杀。
And then, in 2010, Jose's team learned something that would totally radicalize the way they did this work.
然后，在 2010 年，Jose 的团队学到了一些东西，彻底改变了他们的工作方式。
One of his young colleagues noticed it first.
他的一位年轻同事首先注意到了这一点。
Looking at the data, demobilization numbers always went up around Christmas.
从数据来看，圣诞节前后复员人数总是上升。
They peaked actually.
他们实际上达到了顶峰。
Guerrillas wanted to be home for Christmas.
游击队想回家过圣诞节。
In war terminology, December was a window of vulnerability for the FARC.
用战争术语来说，12 月是哥伦比亚革命武装力量的脆弱期。
Now Jose and his team could have whipped up a Christmas campaign and put it on TV, or on the radio.
现在，何塞和他的团队可以发起一场圣诞节活动，并将其放在电视或广播中。
But they didn't do that.
但他们没有那么做。
"We decided to try something completely lateral and different."
“我们决定尝试一些完全横向和不同的东西。”
This recording is from a TED Talk Jose gave last year.
这段录音来自 Jose 去年的 TED 演讲。
"Christmas lights.
“圣诞灯。
So Christmas lights.
所以圣诞灯。
And you're saying what the hell is this guy going to talk about?
你是说这家伙到底要说什么？
OK, I am going to talk about gigantic trees that we put in nine strategic pathways in the jungle, covered with Christmas lights.
好吧，我要谈谈我们在丛林中的九个战略路径中放置的巨大树木，上面覆盖着圣诞彩灯。
These trees were lit up at night.
这些树在晚上被点亮。
And they had a sign beside them."
他们旁边有一个标志。”
A sign that only lit up when the guerrillas happened to walk by and trigger a motion sensor.
这个标志只有在游击队碰巧走过并触发运动传感器时才会亮起。
It said--
它说——
"If Christmas can come to the jungle, you can come home.
“如果圣诞节能来到丛林，你就可以回家了。
Demobilize.
复员。
It's Christmas.
今天是圣诞节。
Everything is possible."
一切皆有可能。”
By gigantic trees, Jose means maybe 75 feet high, all wrapped in whitish blue lights, from top to bottom.
何塞所说的巨大的树木大约有 75 英尺高，从上到下都被白蓝色的灯光包裹着。
It was really impressive.
这真是令人印象深刻。
They called it "Operation Christmas," which might make it sound like Linus and Lucy and Charlie Brown marching into the jungles of Colombia to decorate a spruce.
他们称之为“圣诞节行动”，这听起来可能就像莱纳斯、露西和查理·布朗走进哥伦比亚丛林去装饰一棵云杉。
And it kind of was like that, except replace Linus and Lucy and Charlie Brown with the army of Colombia descending in Black Hawk helicopters.
事情就是这样，只不过用乘坐黑鹰直升机降落的哥伦比亚军队取代了莱纳斯、露西和查理·布朗。
But as spectacular as the trees were, they were just meant to be a tease.
尽管这些树很壮观，但它们只是为了逗弄而已。
Jose says it was just a little taste of Christmas.
何塞说这只是圣诞节的一点味道。
But that's it.
但仅此而已。
There's no friends.
没有朋友。
There's no party.
没有聚会。
There's no aguardiente, which is a drink that we have here.
我们这里没有aguardiente，这是一种饮料。
Mm hm.
嗯嗯。
Jose Miguel Sokoloff There is nothing.
何塞·米格尔·索科洛夫 什么也没有。
There's no fun.
没有什么乐趣。
You're just walking by and hoping that the army doesn't see you and doesn't shoot you.
你只是路过，希望军队没有看到你，也没有开枪射杀你。
And that was incredibly powerful.
那是非常强大的。
That effort alone demobilized 331 guerrillas.
仅这一努力就使 331 名游击队员复员。
Really?
真的吗？
Jose Miguel Sokoloff Which at the time was roughly 5% of the whole guerrilla army.
何塞·米格尔·索科洛夫 (Jose Miguel Sokoloff) 当时大约占整个游击队的 5%。
And that wasn't even necessarily the result of seeing the trees, Jose says.
何塞说，这甚至不一定是看到树木的结果。
Sometimes the guerrillas just heard about them and decided to demobilize.
有时游击队只是听说他们的消息，就决定复员。
His company sent us a few quotes they'd transcribed from guerrillas who demobilized during "Operation Christmas."
他的公司向我们发送了一些他们从“圣诞节行动”期间复员的游击队员那里抄录的引言。
"We knew all of the strategies the government had done," one of them said.
其中一位人士表示：“我们知道政府采取的所有策略。”
"But we never expected something like this." Another said that, surprisingly, his commander wasn't even angry about the Christmas trees.
“但我们没想到会发生这样的事情。”另一位说，令人惊讶的是，他的指挥官甚至没有对圣诞树感到愤怒。
Quote, "It was different to the other propaganda we had seen.
引用：“这与我们看到的其他宣传不同。
He was touched."
他很感动。”
So Jose and his crew knew they were on to something.
所以何塞和他的团队知道他们正在做某事。
And after winning that first Christmas, they were able to perfect and hone the formula even more sharply, because now they had these newly demobilized guerrillas to talk to.
在赢得第一个圣诞节后，他们能够更加完善和磨练这个公式，因为现在他们有了这些新复员的游击队员可以交谈。
Eventually, when we talked to the guerrillas that had left, at the time, they said the trees are all good.
最后，当我们和当时离开的游击队交谈时，他们说树都很好。
They were amazing.
他们太棒了。
We love them.
我们爱他们。
Thank you very much.
非常感谢。
And they were very effective, but the thing is that we are not walking as much as you think.
它们非常有效，但问题是我们走路的次数没有你想象的那么多。
We move in the rivers.
我们在河里移动。
The rivers are the highways of the jungle, in Colombia.
在哥伦比亚，河流是丛林的高速公路。
And Jose's company could have done what you do on a highway and put up billboards.
何塞的公司可以做你在高速公路上做的事情并张贴广告牌。
But why do that when you can do something far more insane?
但当你可以做更疯狂的事情时为什么还要这么做呢？
The 2011 Christmas demobilization campaign was called "Operation Rivers of Light." Jose and company went to towns and villages and gathered little toys and trinkets, notes.
2011 年圣诞节复员运动被称为“光河行动”。何塞和他的同伴去了城镇和村庄，收集小玩具和小饰品、笔记。
They mostly had people write notes to the guerrilla fighters.
他们大多让人给游击战士写纸条。
And they put all of those things into plastic, glowing, purple balls, a little bit bigger than a softball.
他们将所有这些东西放入发光的紫色塑料球中，比垒球稍大一点。
They floated almost 7,000 of those balls onto the rivers of Colombia, and all of which lit up at night, like a terrestrial galaxy.
他们将近 7,000 个这样的球漂浮到哥伦比亚的河流上，所有这些球在夜间都会发光，就像一个类地星系。
The tops of the balls were transparent so the FARC soldiers would see what was inside of them when they pulled them out the water.
这些球的顶部是透明的，因此当哥伦比亚革命武装力量士兵将它们从水中拉出来时，他们可以看到里面的东西。
And the Christmas after that, they decided they weren't just going to bring lights to the jungle.
之后的圣诞节，他们决定不只是给丛林带来灯光。
They were going to use lights to try to lead guerrillas out of the jungle.
他们打算用灯光试图引导游击队走出丛林。
They shone huge spotlights up into the sky, the way they did in Manhattan after 9/11 to symbolize the missing towers.
他们将巨大的聚光灯照射到天空，就像9/11之后他们在曼哈顿所做的那样，象征着失踪的塔楼。
Except in this case, the message was, "Guerrilla, this Christmas follow the light that will guide you to your family and your freedom." They called it "Operation Bethlehem."
但在这种情况下，传达的信息是：“游击队，这个圣诞节，跟随那将引导你走向家庭和自由的光明。”他们称之为“伯利恒行动”。
God, there's a huge amount of staging and production involved in all of this.
天啊，这一切都涉及大量的舞台和制作。
Yes, there is.
是的，有。
There is because I frankly believe that everything you do needs to be beautiful.
这是因为我坦率地相信，你所做的一切都需要是美丽的。
The only element that cannot lack is beauty, making sure you like what you're seeing.
唯一不能缺少的元素就是美，确保你喜欢你所看到的东西。
You cannot do ugly stuff.
你不能做丑陋的事情。
When you see all these lights floating down the river, slowly floating down towards you, you can't escape the thought of, this is a beautiful thing.
当你看到所有这些灯光顺着河漂流，慢慢地向你飘来时，你无法逃避这样的想法，这是一件美丽的事情。
Regardless of what it is, how beautiful is it?
不管它是什么，它有多漂亮？
Because had it been a thing that is not beautiful, I probably wouldn't have looked at it.
因为如果它是一件不漂亮的东西，我可能就不会看它。
I would have said, this is trash floating down the river.
我会说，这是顺流而下的垃圾。
But if it's a beautiful thing that's coming down, it's coming down in numbers, then I'm drawn to it.
但如果这是一件美丽的事情正在下降，它的数量正在下降，那么我就会被它吸引。
I'm interested.
我有兴趣。
But along with beauty, Jose says one of the other key ingredients is surprise, and has to be something they've never done before.
但何塞说，除了美丽之外，另一个关键要素就是惊喜，而且必须是他们以前从未做过的事情。
So after three Christmases in a row, he and his fellow guerrilla marketers all looked at each other and said--
因此，在连续三个圣诞节之后，他和他的游击营销同事们面面相觑，说道——
Enough of the lights.
灯够了。
We're not going to keep throwing lights at the jungle.
我们不会继续向丛林投光。
Let's think of something different.
让我们想一些不同的事情。
And it came across because the circumstances changed.
它的出现是因为情况发生了变化。
That is, in 2012, the two sides began peace talks in Cuba.
也就是2012年，双方在古巴开始和谈。
There had been peace negotiations between the revolutionaries and the government before.
革命者与政府之间此前曾进行过和平谈判。
But this time they seemed more promising.
但这一次他们似乎更有希望。
So to Jose's thinking, the concerns of the FARC were different now.
所以在何塞看来，哥伦比亚革命武装力量现在的关注点不同了。
It wasn't so much is this a winnable war anymore, or is this life worth living.
重要的不是这是否是一场可以获胜的战争，或者这种生活是否值得过。
It was more, this war's probably going to end anyway.
更重要的是，这场战争无论如何都可能会结束。
We're all going to end up disbanding.
我们最终都会解散。
And will they take me in again back home?
他们会再次带我回家吗？
Will my family still accept me?
我的家人还会接受我吗？
And that's when they dropped probably their biggest emotional bomb to date, a campaign they called simply "Mothers' Voices." They found 37 mothers of guerrilla fighters who were willing to give them pictures of those fighters as children.
就在那时，他们投下了迄今为止最大的情感炸弹，他们称之为“母亲的声音”的活动。他们找到了 37 名游击战士的母亲，她们愿意给她们这些战士小时候的照片。
And it was important that they gave us pictures of the kids when they were small, because in order to protect them, we needed to make sure that only the person in the picture would be able to recognize himself.
重要的是，他们给了我们孩子们小时候的照片，因为为了保护他们，我们需要确保只有照片中的人才能认出自己。
And the message was, "Before you were a guerrilla, you were my child."
传达的信息是：“在你成为游击队员之前，你是我的孩子。”
That's what it said on the poster.
海报上是这么说的。
"Before you were a guerrilla, you were my child.
“在你成为游击队员之前，你是我的孩子。
Come back this Christmas.
今年圣诞节回来吧。
I'm waiting for you."
我在等你。”
They printed up thousands of these posters and hung them in towns that the guerrillas moved through and nailed them to trees as well.
他们印制了数千张这样的海报，把它们挂在游击队经过的城镇里，也把它们钉在树上。
The mothers campaign was really moving-- simple, no lights attached-- proving you don't have to do something huge and carnivalistic to win someone over, to change their behavior.
母亲们的竞选活动真的很感人——简单，没有灯光——证明你不需要做一些巨大的、狂欢式的事情来赢得某人的支持，改变他们的行为。
I mean, the goal of propaganda is usually to appeal to emotions.
我的意思是，宣传的目标通常是诉诸情感。
But this was on another level.
但这是另一个层面的事情。
It was so personal-- in a couple of cases, so specific to the person receiving the message.
它是如此个人化——在某些情况下，对于接收消息的人来说是如此具体。
There's this one story Jose always tells as he goes around talking about this work, and it's my favorite one.
何塞在谈论这项工作时总是讲一个故事，这是我最喜欢的一个。
It doesn't have to do with the Christmas trees or the floating balls or the mothers campaign.
这与圣诞树、漂浮的球或母亲的活动无关。
And it takes place way back, when all they were doing were the radio ads.
这发生在很久以前，当时他们所做的只是广播广告。
There was a guerrilla guy whose combat name was Giovanni Andres.
有一个游击队员，他的战斗名字是乔瓦尼·安德烈斯。
And a few years into his service they recruited a girl into the guerrilla.
在他服役几年后，他们招募了一名女孩加入游击队。
Into his unit.
进了他的单位。
I've been meaning to say-- women make up 30% of the FARC forces.
我一直想说的是——哥伦比亚革命武装力量中女性占 30%。
And they fight right alongside the men, dressed in fatigues, brandishing rifles.
他们穿着迷彩服，挥舞着步枪，与士兵并肩作战。
Anyway, this boy and this girl--
无论如何，这个男孩和这个女孩——
They fell in love.
他们相爱了。
And they had this beautiful relationship.
他们有着美好的关系。
And they spent most of their time, when they were alone, talking about what their life would be like and what their family would be like, and the kind of things young lovers talk about.
当他们独处时，他们大部分时间都在谈论他们的生活会是什么样子，他们的家庭会是什么样子，以及年轻恋人谈论的事情。
Except for they're in the jungle and they're--
除了他们在丛林中而且他们——
Carrying guns.
携带枪支。
And they're patrolling.
而且他们正在巡逻。
And they're going into combat, right.
他们即将投入战斗，对吧。
I remember him telling me that they always tried to go out when there was fighting, when there was a combat, that they always tried to go out together, so that they could protect each other.
我记得他告诉我，当发生战斗时，当发生战斗时，他们总是试图一起出去，这样他们就可以互相保护。
They could watch each other's back.
他们可以互相看着对方的背影。
But love is forbidden in the lower ranks of the guerrilla.
但爱情在游击队的下层是被禁止的。
So the couple was separated.
于是夫妻俩就分开了。
One of them was sent to a camp far away.
其中一人被送往遥远的营地。
And so now, without her boyfriend, life in the FARC completely lost its hold on the girl.
现在，没有了男朋友，哥伦比亚革命武装力量的生活完全失去了对这个女孩的控制力。
So she escaped, demobilized to the military reentry program, where she was interviewed by Jose's company.
于是她逃了出来，复员参加军事重返计划，在那里她接受了何塞公司的面试。
And she said, "I got out of the guerrilla because I had found the love of my life.
她说：“我离开游击队是因为我找到了我一生的挚爱。
And the love of my life could not be with me.
而我一生的挚爱却无法与我同在。
And if I'm not going to be able to have the family and the love I want, I'm going to get out.
如果我不能拥有我想要的家庭和爱，我就会离开。
And so I did."
我就这么做了。”
And the thing is that, by chance, her boyfriend heard her voice.
事情是，一次偶然的机会，她的男朋友听到了她的声音。
And he said "oh, my god.
他说：“哦，天啊。
She got out.
她下了车。
And I'm still here.
而我还在这里。
What am I doing here?" So he got out.
我在这里做什么？”于是他就出去了。
And his obsession was trying to find her, which eventually he did.
他痴迷于寻找她，最终他做到了。
He did.
他做到了。
A reporter for the British paper The Independent wrote that he met the guy, Giovanni Andres, in 2010, and confirmed the story.
英国《独立报》的一名记者写道，他在 2010 年遇到了这个人，名叫乔瓦尼·安德烈斯 (Giovanni Andres)，并证实了这个故事。
I asked Jose if there was any way we could talk to him, or his girlfriend.
我问何塞我们是否可以通过任何方式与他或他的女朋友交谈。
But so many years after leaving the reentry program, which is kind of like a witness protection program, former guerrillas get harder and harder to find.
但在退出重返计划（有点像证人保护计划）这么多年后，前游击队员变得越来越难找到。
They fade back into society, which is what's supposed to happen.
他们逐渐回归社会，这是应该发生的事情。
Anyway, it's very possible that they're still together, making good on all those plans they hatched in the jungle.
不管怎样，他们很可能仍然在一起，实现他们在丛林中制定的所有计划。
Just beautiful.
就是很漂亮。
It's very poetic, if you think about it.
如果你仔细想想，这是非常诗意的。
It is beautiful.
它很美丽。
It's really moving.
真的很感动。
I've also just never heard of propaganda playing such an integral role in a love story like that.
我也从未听说过宣传在这样的爱情故事中扮演着如此不可或缺的角色。
Yeah, well, war is a human endeavor.
是的，战争是人类的努力。
And it's fought by human beings.
而且是人类来战斗的。
And when humanity is removed from the equation, by one side or the other, I think the reinsertion of the human aspect gives you an edge.
当人性从方程式中被删除时，无论是一侧还是另一侧，我认为重新插入人性方面会给你带来优势。
Jose says this work has been unusual in a lot of ways.
何塞说这项工作在很多方面都是不同寻常的。
The client, of course, is an anomaly.
当然，客户是一个异常者。
And the audience he's trying to appeal to is unlike any he's had before.
他试图吸引的观众也不同于他以前的观众。
And normally in advertising, he says, you want the same clients to come back year after year and do more business with you.
他说，通常在广告业，你希望相同的客户年复一年地回来并与你做更多的业务。
And this is the only advertising campaign I've ever worked on where, if I'm successful, I will never need to do advertising like this again.
这是我参与过的唯一一个广告活动，如果我成功了，我将永远不需要再做这样的广告。
I want my client to disappear.
我希望我的客户消失。
To disappear.
消失。
Jose Miguel Sokoloff Yeah.
何塞·米格尔·索科洛夫 是的。
This year, Jose's already getting a small taste of what that would be like.
今年，何塞已经尝到了那种滋味。
As part of the peace negotiations, the FARC has asked the government not to launch any big demobilizing campaigns this Christmas.
作为和平谈判的一部分，哥伦比亚革命武装力量要求政府今年圣诞节不要发起任何大规模的复员运动。
For the first time in years, Jose and his team have Christmas off.
多年来，何塞和他的团队第一次享受圣诞节假期。
Sean Cole is one of the producers of our program.
肖恩·科尔是我们节目的制作人之一。
Act Two, "Not Our Town." Well, we just heard how jarring an experience it can be to happen upon a piece of propaganda-- a full blown, all out, no holds barred piece propaganda-- when you're not expecting anything like that at all.
第二幕，“不是我们的城镇”。好吧，我们刚刚听说，当你根本没有期待这样的事情时，发生在宣传片上的经历是多么不和谐——一场全面、全力以赴、毫无保留的宣传片。
That happened to a writer named Jon Mooallem recently, in a very different setting than a South American jungle.
最近，一位名叫乔恩·穆阿勒姆 (Jon Mooallem) 的作家就遇到了这种情况，他所处的环境与南美丛林截然不同。
This past spring, we went to see the end of the year musical for my daughter's after school program at a public school in San Francisco.
去年春天，我们去旧金山的一所公立学校观看了我女儿课后活动的年末音乐剧。
It was an original work.
这是一部原创作品。
And she had a tiny part, her first play.
她只扮演了一个很小的角色，这是她的第一部戏。
I don't know what I expected.
我不知道我期待什么。
But it wasn't this.
但不是这个。
Act one, scene one, opened on a sinister tech executive meeting with a corrupt mayor and San Francisco's board of supervisors.
第一幕第一场，以一场险恶的科技高管会议开始，会议上有一位腐败的市长和旧金山的监事会。
He's pitching them a new branding campaign for the city.
他正在向他们推销这座城市的新品牌宣传活动。
It's meant to distract citizens from San Francisco's widening socioeconomic inequality and simmering strife.
它的目的是分散公民对旧金山日益扩大的社会经济不平等和一触即发的冲突的注意力。
My daughter was finishing kindergarten.
我女儿刚上完幼儿园。
She was six.
她六岁。
One elected official, played by a fifth grader, explains that everyone knows the city is struggling.
一位由五年级学生扮演的民选官员解释说，每个人都知道这座城市正在苦苦挣扎。
A wave of tech money is driving up real estate prices and pushing people out.
一波科技资金正在推高房地产价格并迫使人们离开。
She describes it as a kind of civic identity crisis.
她将其描述为一种公民身份危机。
A town that was once known as bastion of freedom, inclusion, individuality, is now known as a sterile playground for the rich.
这座曾经被称为自由、包容、个性的堡垒的小镇现在被称为富人的贫瘠游乐场。
People are frustrated.
人们很沮丧。
They don't want to live in this sterile playground for the rich.
他们不想生活在这个贫瘠的富人游乐场。
That's why the city's called in this branding guy, a tech marketing guru named Ron Scraper, a master of his craft who could "sell water to an ocean," one kid says.
这就是为什么这座城市请来了一位品牌推广人员，一位名叫罗恩·斯克拉珀（Ron Scraper）的科技营销大师，一位可以“将水卖给海洋”的手艺大师，一个孩子说。
Scraper can't fix the city's gentrification problem.
Scraper 无法解决城市的高档化问题。
But he has cooked up a creative way to reframe it.
但他想出了一种创造性的方式来重新构建它。
"Sure," he says, "pitching his idea to the city government.
“当然，”他说，“向市政府提出他的想法。
No one can afford San Francisco's rental market anymore, or the $100 Uber rides." But-- and here's his new slogan--
没有人再能负担得起旧金山的租赁市场，或者 100 美元的 Uber 乘车费了。”但是——这是他的新口号——
San Francisco, where you can afford to dream.
旧金山，您可以实现梦想的地方。
The question is, can we afford this ad campaign?
问题是，我们能负担得起这个广告活动吗？
What's the damage?
损害有多大？
[LAUGHING] Child Actor 2 I'm sure we can afford it, right, Ron?
[笑]童星 2 我相信我们能负担得起，对吧，罗恩？
That's the mayor, a chuckling, feathery kid in an oversized suit.
那是市长，一个穿着特大号西装、咯咯笑着、毛茸茸的孩子。
He loves the idea and suggests paying Ron Scraper's consulting fee by redirecting funds from city public schools and affordable housing.
他喜欢这个想法，并建议通过从城市公立学校和经济适用房转移资金来支付罗恩·斯克拉珀的咨询费。
Suddenly music starts.
突然音乐响起。
Lines of dancing third graders flood the stage.
舞台上挤满了跳舞的三年级学生。
They're holding iPads made out of cardboard and glitter.
他们拿着用纸板和闪光材料制成的 iPad。
And they sing about looking down on the less fortunate people from expensive homes they just bought in a formerly working class neighborhood.
他们唱的歌表达了对那些刚在前工人阶级社区购买的昂贵房屋的不幸者的蔑视。
[SINGING] "I bought a sleek condo for about $5 mil, right on top of Potrero Hill."
[唱歌]“我花了大约 500 万美元买了一套时尚的公寓，就在波特雷罗山顶上。”
[SINGING] At one point, the band slows down.
[歌唱] 在某一时刻，乐队放慢了速度。
And this angelically round faced child steps into a spotlight for his solo.
这个天使般的圆脸孩子因他的独奏而成为众人瞩目的焦点。
You can see his face, straining to find his note.
你可以看到他的脸，努力寻找他的笔记。
[SINGING] We need a ray of light to clear the foggy sky.
[歌唱]我们需要一束光来驱散迷雾的天空。
This place was perfect with sunny weather.
这个地方非常完美，天气晴朗。
They're taking our city from behind our back.
他们正在从我们背后夺走我们的城市。
[SINGING] They're taking the souls of the wild and free.
[歌唱]他们正在夺走狂野和自由的灵魂。
They're taking over, but they can't take me.
他们正在接管，但他们不能带走我。
Me!
我！
Me!
我！
Me!
我！
Me!
我！
It's a San Francisco dream!
这是旧金山的梦想！
Jon Mooallem So there they were, these blameless children, up there performing a kind of kiddie grotesque of the same exasperated conversation that all us parents were constantly having behind their backs, the conversation that more and more seemed to hang over every conversation in San Francisco, then inevitably spiraled into panicked Zillow searches for homes in Oakland, or Petaluma, or Portland.
乔恩·穆阿勒姆（Jon Mooallem） 所以，他们就在那里，这些无可指责的孩子，在那里表演着一种类似孩子们的怪诞行为，我们所有的父母都经常在背后进行同样令人恼火的谈话，这种谈话似乎越来越多地笼罩在旧金山的每一次谈话中，然后不可避免地陷入惊慌失措的 Zillow 在奥克兰、佩塔卢马或波特兰寻找家园。
The after school program that staged the play is a nonprofit called CASA, Children's After School Arts.
上演该剧的课后节目是一个名为 CASA（儿童课后艺术）的非营利组织。
It was staffed in part by young artsy people, many of whom only worked there part time and seemed to be scraping by in the city, tossed around by the same turbulence.
它的部分工作人员是年轻的艺术人士，其中许多人只是在那里兼职工作，似乎在城市里勉强度日，被同样的动荡所困扰。
I'd gotten to know a few of them during the year.
这一年里我认识了他们中的一些人。
They were cool, kind-hearted people.
他们是很酷、心地善良的人。
And my daughter loved them.
我女儿很喜欢它们。
But now it felt like they were indoctrinating my little girl.
但现在感觉就像他们在向我的小女儿灌输思想。
I was kind of angry at them, even if I was basically sympathetic to their cause.
我对他们有点生气，即使我基本上同情他们的事业。
The cost of living in San Francisco had become the greatest source of anxiety for my family in the last couple of years.
过去几年里，旧金山的生活成本已成为我家人焦虑的最大根源。
We constantly wrestled with whether it was worth trying to live here anymore.
我们不断地思考是否值得再尝试住在这里。
But my instinct had been to shield my kids from all that stress and instability, not conscript them.
但我的本能是保护我的孩子免受所有压力和不稳定的影响，而不是征召他们入伍。
I mean, the only school play I could remember being in as a kid was called Care Bears Class Show.
我的意思是，我记得小时候唯一参加过的学校戏剧是“爱心小熊课堂表演”。
I played a green one.
我玩的是绿色的。
The play went on.
戏还在继续。
There was a scene about Google buses, a song about FOMO, and a time travel sequence with the ghosts of San Francisco past, present, and future, through the gold rush and the Summer of Love.
其中有一个关于谷歌巴士的场景，一首关于 FOMO 的歌曲，还有一段时间旅行片段，讲述了旧金山过去、现在和未来的鬼魂，穿越了淘金热和爱之夏。
My daughter's kindergarten class twirled with flowers in their hair.
我女儿的幼儿园班级的头发上都飘着鲜花。
And there was an impressive cameo by a miniature Allen Ginsberg.
微型艾伦·金斯堡 (Allen Ginsberg) 客串了令人印象深刻的一幕。
"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, dragging themselves to the streets at dawn, angel-headed hipsters boning for the ancient heavenly connection, the starry dynamo and the machinery of night."
“我看到我们这一代人中最优秀的头脑被疯狂摧毁，黎明时分拖着自己的脚步走上街头，天使般的嬉皮士为古老的天堂联系、繁星闪烁的发电机和夜晚的机器而痴迷。”
Here's the plot, though-- spoiler alert, I guess.
不过，情节是这样的——我想是剧透警告。
Ron Scraper's real client turns out to be a shadowy tech corporation, plotting to build something called the Dock.
罗恩·斯克拉珀的真正客户原来是一家神秘的科技公司，密谋建造一个名为 Dock 的东西。
Ostensibly the Dock is a big, cool cafe with what the kids on stage keep calling top notch, organic, hand-picked, single-sourced, locally-roasted, individually-dripped coffee.
表面上看，Dock 是一家又大又酷的咖啡馆，提供舞台上的孩子们口中的顶级有机、手工采摘、单一来源、本地烘焙、单独滴滤的咖啡。
But actually, it's a trap.
但实际上，这是一个陷阱。
In a later scene, the executives meet to discuss their real plot in private.
在后来的场景中，高管们私下开会讨论他们的真实阴谋。
When San Franciscans come to the Dock and plug in their laptops or phones, the company will install malware on their devices and steal their personal data.
当旧金山人来到 Dock 并插入笔记本电脑或手机时，该公司将在他们的设备上安装恶意软件并窃取他们的个人数据。
Soon this beautiful city will belong to Scraper advertising and ICU Technologies.
很快这座美丽的城市将属于 Scraper 广告和 ICU Technologies。
See, that's the name of their privacy-breaching, data-scraping tech company, ICU Technologies.
看，这就是他们侵犯隐私、窃取数据的科技公司 ICU Technologies 的名称。
As the plot unspools, of course the company has to evict someone.
随着阴谋的展开，公司当然必须驱逐某人。
And it's a close-knit group of multicultural tenants from an old Victorian at 1906 Babylon Lane.
这是一群关系紧密的多元文化租户，来自巴比伦巷 1906 号的一栋古老的维多利亚时代建筑。
The tenants line up in front of their stoop like a row of glum Rockettes and seeing the eviction blues.
房客们像一排闷闷不乐的火箭女郎一样在门廊前排队，看着被驱逐的忧郁情绪。
[SINGING] They're taking the floor from under our feet.
[唱歌]他们正在夺走我们脚下的地板。
Yes, they're taking the floor from right here under our feet.
是的，他们正在从我们脚下夺走发言权。
We want to keep fighting, but we're already beat.
我们想继续战斗，但我们已经被打败了。
It was here, during this number, that I suddenly realized why my daughter had turned to me out of nowhere on the way home from school a couple of weeks earlier and asked whether our landlords planned to evict us.
正是在这里，在这个数字中，我突然意识到为什么几周前我的女儿在放学回家的路上突然向我求助，并询问我们的房东是否计划驱逐我们。
It surprised me she even knew that word.
让我惊讶的是她竟然知道这个词。
[SINGING] The broken heart.
[歌唱] 破碎的心。
I've got to move.
我得走了。
I don't know what I'm gonna do.
我不知道我要做什么。
Eviction blues.
驱逐忧郁。
The eviction song killed.
驱逐歌杀了。
Everything killed, which was strange, given something I haven't mentioned til now.
所有东西都被杀了，这很奇怪，考虑到我到现在为止还没有提到的事情。
Maybe half the parents in the auditorium actually worked in tech.
也许礼堂里一半的家长实际上在科技行业工作。
And now they were watching their own children spear them as cartoon villains, literally cackling and throwing money over flutes of champagne, as they plotted the eviction of all those nice people.
现在，他们看着自己的孩子把他们当作卡通恶棍，一边咯咯笑着，一边把钱扔到香槟杯上，密谋驱逐所有这些好人。
No one in the audience booed, of course, or huffed or stamped out.
当然，观众中没有人发出嘘声，也没有人生气或踩踏。
We were watching our kids perform.
我们正在观看孩子们的表演。
But I can't imagine what it must have been like to keep smiling along as you suddenly realized that for weeks after school your own son or daughter had been rehearsing songs that mocked both you and the job you were off busy working, which is why you'd been forced to entrust your kids to the after school program in the first place.
但我无法想象当你突然意识到放学后你自己的儿子或女儿几个星期以来一直在排练嘲笑你和你忙于工作的工作的歌曲时，保持微笑会是什么样子，这就是为什么你首先被迫委托你的孩子参加课外活动。
I later heard that one father in the tech industry had gotten wind of the play's plot and actually written to the director, expressing concern.
后来我听说一位科技行业的父亲听说了这部剧的情节，还写信给导演表达了担忧。
This led to a long, explanatory email to all us parents with the subject line, "Is the CASA musical anti-tech?"
这导致我们向所有家长发送了一封长长的解释性电子邮件，其主题是“CASA 音乐剧是反科技的吗？”
The short answer is no, the director wrote.
导演写道，简短的回答是否定的。
The characters are fictional exaggerations and no one group can be blamed for San Francisco's struggles.
这些人物都是虚构的夸大之词，旧金山的困境不能归咎于任何一个群体。
That said, she insisted, we do not attempt to answer questions with our art, but rather to ask questions.
尽管如此，她坚持认为，我们并不是试图用我们的艺术来回答问题，而是提出问题。
After the "Eviction Blues," the curtain fell on act one-- intermission.
“驱逐蓝调”结束后，第一幕——中场休息落下帷幕。
And we all filtered into the courtyard for paella and juice boxes.
我们都走进庭院去吃海鲜饭和果汁盒。
A neighbor of mine who works in tech walked over.
我的一位从事科技工作的邻居走过来。
And I noticed he felt compelled to lead with a good humored joke about how he hoped I didn't mind chatting with the enemy.
我注意到他觉得有必要以一个幽默的笑话来开头，说他希望我不介意与敌人聊天。
I took it as his way, subconsciously at least, to show he was brushing it off.
我认为这是他的方式，至少在潜意识里是这样，以表明他对此不屑一顾。
There were no hard feelings.
没有什么难受的感觉。
We weren't the caricatures we'd been watching on stage.
我们不再是舞台上看到的漫画人物。
The real truth was in this interaction, him and me.
真正的真相就在他和我的这次互动中。
And he was right.
他是对的。
His family was wonderful.
他的家庭很棒。
We'd spent Halloween at their place.
我们在他们家度过了万圣节。
And one night, when I sliced my finger open cooking, I'd run over.
有一天晚上，当我做饭时割破了手指，我就跑过去了。
And his wife, an ER doctor, cleaned me up and assured me I wouldn't need stitches while I bled all over their kitchen sink.
他的妻子，一名急诊室医生，帮我清理了伤口，并向我保证，当我的血流遍了他们的厨房水槽时，我不需要缝针。
All that familiarity colored our conversation at intermission.
所有这些熟悉的感觉都给我们中场休息时的谈话增添了色彩。
And yet, I'd be lying if I said that in that moment I wasn't also conscious of something else, that my growing family couldn't afford to rent a bigger apartment in our neighborhood, that our days were numbered.
然而，如果我说在那一刻我没有意识到其他事情，我的成长家庭负担不起在我们附近租一套更大的公寓，我们的日子已经屈指可数了，那我就是在撒谎。
And that he, meanwhile, had recently bid up their house across the street to 25% over asking.
与此同时，他最近将街对面的房子出价比要价高出 25%。
I hated that I was thinking about that, but I was.
我讨厌自己在想这个，但我确实在想。
And I hated to think that he might be thinking about it too.
我不愿意想到他可能也在考虑这个问题。
But at the same time-- and I'm definitely not proud of this-- I also hated that maybe he wasn't thinking about it, that he had the luxury not to, that, as we stood there laughing off the play together, his laughter might have been unencumbered, casual laughter, and not uncomfortable laughter, not even slightly uncomfortable.
但与此同时——我绝对不为此感到骄傲——我也讨厌也许他没有考虑到这一点，他有幸不考虑，当我们站在那里一起笑完这出戏时，他的笑声可能是无拘无束的、随意的笑声，而不是不舒服的笑声，甚至没有一点不舒服。
I was embarrassed to recognize all those high pitched voices in the play, stammering their shakily memorized platitudes.
我很尴尬地认出了剧中所有那些高亢的声音，结结巴巴地说着他们记忆中颤抖的陈词滥调。
They were the voices in my head.
他们是我脑海中的声音。
It's all the techies' fault.
都是技术人员的错。
Everything was just fine before they moved in.
搬进来之前一切都很好。
Hey, does anyone have a phone with power?
嘿，谁有有电的手机吗？
I really need to get online.
我真的需要上网。
[LAUGHTER] Child Actor 2 The techies are not the enemies.
[笑声] 儿童演员 2 技术人员不是敌人。
We are also dependent on the technological advances that they have brought.
我们还依赖于它们带来的技术进步。
Yeah, some of my best friends are techies.
是的，我的一些最好的朋友都是技术人员。
The real enemies are selfishness and greed.
真正的敌人是自私和贪婪。
What's wrong with selfishness and greed?
自私和贪婪有什么错？
We all have to look out for ourselves, right?
我们都必须照顾自己，对吗？
That was last May.
那是去年五月的事了。
We don't live in San Francisco anymore.
我们不再住在旧金山了。
We moved a couple of months later.
几个月后我们搬家了。
We still loved living in the city.
我们仍然喜欢住在城市里。
But life there had started to feel impossible for us in the long term, for reasons which were apparently close enough to what was unfolding on that stage that at some point in act two my wife started to cry.
但从长远来看，那里的生活对我们来说已经开始变得不可能，原因显然与舞台上正在发生的事情非常接近，以至于在第二幕的某个时刻我的妻子开始哭泣。
We were lucky to have options.
我们很幸运有选择。
We went somewhere small, semi-rural, and far away, a place where we could afford to buy a pretty cool house and work a little less, and where the children's theater program in town is satisfied doing "Mary Poppins."
我们去了一个很小的、半农村的、很远的地方，在那里我们可以买一栋很酷的房子，工作量也少一点，而且镇上的儿童戏剧节目对演《欢乐满人间》很满意。
Sometimes, up here, I think about that class play.
有时，在这里，我会想起那场班级比赛。
And I can measure how long we've been gone from the Bay Area by how impossible that performance, how impossible the very idea of an elementary school musical about eviction, has started to feel.
我可以通过这场表演、一部关于驱逐的小学音乐剧的想法是多么不可能来衡量我们已经离开湾区多久了。
When I think about it now I don't feel the same discomfort, like I'm watching all my own agonizing worries performed in song.
现在回想起来，我并没有感到同样的不适，就像我正在看着自己所有痛苦的担忧在歌曲中表演一样。
What I mostly feel is pride-- pride that my kid got to be a part of it, and pride that she got to live in a place where people cared so deeply about what their city should be that even children's musical theater seemed like a way to hash that question out.
我最感受到的是自豪——为我的孩子成为其中的一部分而自豪，为她生活在一个人们如此关心他们的城市应该是什么样子的地方而自豪，甚至连儿童音乐剧似乎也是解决这个问题的一种方式。
And they loved their city so much that inevitably they felt compelled to give their musical a happy ending, even if it meant lacing the last act with a series of preposterous plot twists.
他们如此热爱自己的城市，以至于不可避免地感到有必要给他们的音乐剧一个圆满的结局，即使这意味着在最后一幕中加入一系列荒谬的情节曲折。
The mayor suddenly realizes he's been duped by Scraper Advertising and ICU Technologies.
市长突然意识到自己被 Scraper Advertising 和 ICU Technologies 欺骗了。
I had no idea!
我不知道！
I would never approve such a horrible plan!
我绝对不会批准这么可怕的计划！
The tenants of 1906 Babylon Lane will not be evicted from their home.
巴比伦巷 1906 号的租户不会被驱逐出家。
[CHEERING] Jon Mooallem Even Ron Scraper comes around.
[欢呼] Jon Mooallem 甚至 Ron Scraper 也过来了。
Oh, fine.
哦，好吧。
Scraper Advertising and ICU Technologies will be working together to provide affordable housing to the people of San Francisco.
Scraper Advertising 和 ICU Technologies 将携手合作，为旧金山人民提供经济适用房。
[CHEERING] San Francisco, where you can afford to live!
[欢呼]旧金山，你住得起的地方！
[CHEERING] Jon Mooallem That's a lead in to the plays big final number, a huge demonstration in front of San Francisco's City Hall, with the entire K through 5 ensemble marching down the aisles and out of the wings.
[欢呼]乔恩·穆阿勒姆 (Jon Mooallem) 这是该剧大结局的前奏，在旧金山市政厅前举行了一场大型示威，整个 K 到 5 乐团沿着过道行进，从侧翼走出。
They're activists now, pouring onstage, holding signs, and singing about how they've had enough.
他们现在是活动家，涌上舞台，举着标语，唱着歌诉说他们已经受够了。
[SINGING] We've gotta shake, shake, shake things up.
[唱歌]我们必须震动、震动、震动。
We got mad enough.
我们已经够生气了。
We've got to scream and yell and shout and wail.
我们必须尖叫、大喊、大喊、哀号。
The city's not for sale.
这座城市不卖。
The city's not for sale.
这座城市不卖。
The city's not for sale.
这座城市不卖。
My daughter is barely four feet tall, a sometimes bashful little girl who has trouble pronouncing gentrifier correctly.
我的女儿只有四英尺高，是一个有时害羞的小女孩，很难正确发音“gentrifier”。
And onstage, just then, she was absolutely dwarfed by an older, louder kid behind her, who was waving a massive placard that read "resistance equals love of community."
就在那时，在舞台上，她在身后一个年龄更大、声音更大的孩子面前显得相形见绌，他挥舞着一块巨大的标语牌，上面写着“抵抗等于对社区的爱”。
Still, I'm glad to have the memory of her up there, on the fringes of the resistance, mouthing the words.
尽管如此，我还是很高兴能记得她在抵抗运动的边缘，口中说出这些话。
[SINGING] The city's not for sale.
[唱歌]这座城市是非卖品。
The city's not for sale.
这座城市不卖。
Jon Mooallem is a contributing writer to The New York Times Magazine.
乔恩·穆阿勒姆 (Jon Mooallem) 是《纽约时报》杂志的特约撰稿人。
Coming up, a two-word slogan that changed the direction of an entire nation.
一句改变整个国家方向的两个字口号出现了。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program- "The Poetry of Propaganda," stories of how propaganda can contain complicated and subtle messages, even propaganda that does not seem so subtle when you first encounter it.
今天的节目——《宣传之诗》，讲述宣传如何包含复杂而微妙的信息，甚至是你第一次接触时看起来并不那么微妙的宣传。
We've arrived at act three of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第三幕。
Act Three, "The Spy Who Did Not Know She Was a Spy." OK, so here's something that rarely ever happens in this country.
第三幕，“不知道自己是间谍的间谍”。好吧，这是在这个国家很少发生的事情。
Just this week a US government agency was found guilty of disseminating covert propaganda, perpetrating covert propaganda on the American public.
就在本周，一家美国政府机构被判犯有传播秘密宣传罪，即对美国公众进行秘密宣传。
And this was not the CIA.
这不是中央情报局。
It was not the NSA.
这不是美国国家安全局。
These were the tree huggers over at the Environmental Protection Agency who did this.
这些都是环境保护局的环保人士所做的。
The ruling this week by the Government Accountability Office said that the EPA had used everyday citizens in this nefarious scheme.
美国政府问责办公室本周做出的裁决称，美国环保局在这一邪恶计划中利用了普通公民。
Hey, is this Marion?
嘿，这是玛丽昂吗？
Marion Leary This is.
马里恩·利里 这是。
I reached one of those everyday citizens, Marion Leary.
我联系到了其中一位普通公民，玛丽恩·利里 (Marion Leary)。
She's a medical researcher in Philadelphia.
她是费城的一名医学研究员。
Did you know that you have been perpetrating covert propaganda on behalf of the United States government?
你知道你一直在代表美国政府进行秘密宣传吗？
I did not know I was perpetrating covert information.
我不知道我正在泄露秘密信息。
What are you referring to?
你指的是什么？
I'm referring to a tweet you made on the 29th of September where you said, "Clean water is important to me.
我指的是您在 9 月 29 日发布的一条推文，其中您说：“清洁水对我来说很重要。
I support EPA's efforts to protect it for my health, my family, and my community."
我支持 EPA 为保护我的健康、我的家人和我的社区所做的努力。”
OK.
好的。
Ira Glass Do you recognize that tweet at all?
Ira Glass 你认得那条推文吗？
I'd have to go back.
我得回去了。
It sounds like something I would tweet, though.
不过，这听起来像是我会发推文的内容。
I support clean water.
我支持清洁水。
OK, here's what this is about.
好的，这就是本文的内容。
The Government Accountability Office says in its ruling that because of social media, there is a whole new way that federal agencies can mess up when they communicate with the public.
政府问责办公室在裁决中表示，由于社交媒体的存在，联邦机构在与公众沟通时可能会陷入混乱。
And the EPA messed up with a campaign where they went out on social media and they told the world, OK, we're proposing a new rule to keep pollution out of drinking water.
美国环保局搞砸了一场运动，他们在社交媒体上告诉全世界，好吧，我们正在提出一项新规则，以防止饮用水受到污染。
That part of it was actually totally fine.
这部分实际上完全没问题。
Where the EPA got into trouble was when they said to the public, if you like our new proposed rule, send out a tweet with this wording.
美国环保局遇到麻烦的地方是，他们对公众说，如果你喜欢我们新提议的规则，请发送一条带有此措辞的推文。
And the wording they suggested was exactly what Marion and hundreds of other people used.
他们建议的措辞正是马里昂和其他数百人所使用的。
And the problem with was that while the EPA's original message was clearly labeled as coming from a federal agency-- it had the EPA log, it had EPA's-- the message Marion sent out, and all these other people sent out to their friends and followers, those messages didn't make clear that the EPA was behind the whole thing.
问题在于，虽然 EPA 的原始消息被明确标记为来自联邦机构——它有 EPA 日志，它有 EPA 的——马里恩发出的消息，以及所有其他人发送给他们的朋友和追随者的消息，但这些消息并没有明确表明 EPA 是整个事件的幕后黑手。
Edda Emmanuelli Perez is the GAO lawyer who oversaw the drafting of this ruling for the GAO.
埃达·伊曼纽利·佩雷斯 (Edda Emnuelli Perez) 是政府问责局的律师，负责监督政府问责局这项裁决的起草工作。
So even though EPA had written the message, it was written in such a way-- it said, "I support efforts," for example, "for clean water," or "I support EPA's efforts."
因此，尽管 EPA 写了这条信息，但它是这样写的——它说，“我支持努力”，例如“为了清洁水”，或者“我支持 EPA 的努力”。
The public, in that sense, would not be able to tell that EPA wrote this message.
从这个意义上说，公众无法看出美国环保局写了这条信息。
And so that's a problem.
所以这是一个问题。
Because the whole purpose of the covert propaganda prohibition is to make sure that when the government is providing information, it needs to clearly identify itself as the source.
因为禁止秘密宣传的全部目的是确保政府在提供信息时，需要明确表明自己是信息来源。
She says it's as if a government agency hired a spokesman to go on TV and talk up its programs, but the spokesman never revealed to anybody that he was being paid by the agency.
她说，这就好像一个政府机构聘请了一位发言人上电视宣传其节目，但该发言人从未向任何人透露该机构正在向他支付报酬。
He just acted like everything he was saying, praising the policies, were just beliefs that he had come to, on his own, just his personal opinion.
他只是表现得好像他所说的一切，赞扬政策，只是他自己的信念，只是他的个人观点。
Which of course, make sense.
这当然是有道理的。
But what complicates it is that for Marion, the woman who I talked to from Philly, and probably for lots of people who repeated the EPA's message verbatim, they agreed with the message.
但让事情变得复杂的是，对于我在费城与马里昂交谈的那位女士，以及可能对于许多逐字重复 EPA 信息的人来说，他们同意这个信息。
It was their personal opinion.
这是他们的个人意见。
Nobody paid them.
没有人付钱给他们。
Nobody made them tweet.
没有人让他们发推文。
If it was something that I didn't agree with, then I probably would be very upset about that.
如果这是我不同意的事情，那么我可能会对此感到非常沮丧。
But I chose to retweet that.
但我选择转发。
I agree with the importance of clean water.
我同意清洁水的重要性。
I'm an EPA supporter.
我是美国环保署的支持者。
What I'm getting from this conversation is you don't care that you were covert propaganda.
我从这次谈话中得到的结论是，你并不关心你是秘密宣传。
You don't give a damn.
你根本不在乎。
Not really.
并不真地。
Propaganda does sound ugly.
宣传确实听起来很丑陋。
But it is a person who promotes or publicizes a particular cause.
但它是一个促进或宣传特定事业的人。
And I think social media, in general, but Twitter especially-- gives a platform to anybody to be able to be a propaganda-ist.
我认为社交媒体，特别是推特，为任何人提供了一个平台，使他们能够成为宣传者。
So then I guess I would call myself a propagandist.
所以我想我会称自己为宣传员。
I don't know if I'd call myself a covert one.
我不知道我是否可以称自己为隐秘者。
Well, I think the covert refers to the fact that you're hiding your very close association with the federal government of the United States of America.
嗯，我认为隐蔽是指你隐藏了你与美利坚合众国联邦政府的密切关系。
You're hiding the fact that you are just their puppet, doing their bidding.
你隐藏了这样一个事实：你只是他们的傀儡，听从他们的命令。
I'm definitely not the government's puppet doing their bidding.
我绝对不是政府的傀儡，听从他们的命令。
So on that claim, I would dispute that.
因此，对于这一说法，我会提出异议。
But definitely, I could see myself putting out some good propaganda around issues that I think are important for everyone.
但毫无疑问，我可以看到自己围绕我认为对每个人都很重要的问题进行一些良好的宣传。
I like how over the course of this phone call, you've gone from having no idea about the propaganda to being a little horrified by it.
我喜欢在这个电话的过程中，你从对宣传一无所知到对此感到有点害怕。
And now you're embracing it.
现在你正在拥抱它。
Let me just ask you, have your feelings about Joseph Stalin changed over the course of this brief phone conversation?
我只想问你，在这次简短的电话交谈过程中，你对约瑟夫·斯大林的感情有变化吗？
In case you're wondering, the head of the EPA not be doing prison time for breaking this federal rule, nor will President Obama, nor will Marion.
如果你想知道的话，美国环保局局长不会因为违反这项联邦规定而入狱，奥巴马总统和马里昂也不会。
The likely penalty is that the EPA will have to return the money they spent on this social media campaign to the United States Treasury.
可能的惩罚是，美国环保局必须将他们在这次社交媒体活动上花费的资金退还给美国财政部。
And they'll have to issue a report basically admitting that they were wrong, which is unclear if that's going to happen.
他们必须发布一份报告，基本上承认他们错了，目前还不清楚这种情况是否会发生。
The EPA says that it does not agree with the GAO ruling.
美国环保局表示不同意政府问责局的裁决。
They declined to be interviewed.
他们拒绝接受采访。
But a spokesperson told us this is not over.
但一位发言人告诉我们这还没有结束。
Of course, the federal government uses everyday citizens to disseminate its messages all the time.
当然，联邦政府一直在利用普通公民来传播其信息。
And it doesn't get called propaganda.
这不被称为宣传。
When a fourth grade teacher explains the food pyramid and does not tell the class that it comes from the USDA and HHS, that is not against the law.
当四年级老师解释食物金字塔但没有告诉全班同学它来自美国农业部和卫生与公众服务部时，这并不违法。
When your doctor suggests a flu shot and doesn't mention that she's just parroting the official line on flu shots from the CDC, she is not a covert propagandist.
当你的医生建议注射流感疫苗并且没有提到她只是在重复疾病预防控制中心关于流感疫苗的官方说法时，她并不是一个秘密的宣传者。
And the difference between those things and what the EPA did is actually one very specific detail.
这些事情与美国环保局所做的事情之间的区别实际上是一个非常具体的细节。
The GAO lawyer, Edda Emmanuelli Perez, says that detail-- the EPA suggested the exact words that it wanted people to tweet.
GAO 律师埃达·埃马努埃利·佩雷斯 (Edda Emmanuelli Perez) 透露了这一细节——美国环保署提出了它希望人们在推特上发布的确切词语。
And it was misleading.
这是误导性的。
When you look at that message, it says I support EPA's efforts you know, to protect my health, et cetera.
当您查看该消息时，它表示我支持 EPA 为保护我的健康等所做的努力。
The I in that sentence sounds like it's that person, from whose account the messages is being generated.
这句话中的“我”听起来像是那个人，消息是从他的帐户生成的。
But that sentence was written by EPA.
但这句话是EPA写的。
And they crafted the message and got someone else to say it for them.
他们精心设计了这条信息，并请其他人代为传达。
Are there federal rules against overt propaganda?
是否有禁止公开宣传的联邦法规？
I'm not aware of any.
我不知道有什么。
Ira Glass You heard that right.
艾拉·格拉斯 你没听错。
It may be illegal for the EPA to do what it did.
美国环保局的做法可能是违法的。
But overt propaganda-- spin, obfuscation, lying, overstating evidence-- when it's done by the president, when it's done by members of Congress, they would actually have to defraud the United States government, or like, an official would need to commit a high crime worthy of constitutional action, to get in trouble.
但公开的宣传——歪曲事实、混淆视听、撒谎、夸大证据——当总统、国会议员这样做时，他们实际上必须欺骗美国政府，或者像官员需要犯下值得宪法采取行动的重罪，才会陷入麻烦。
Overt propaganda-- that's just politics.
公开宣传——这只是政治。
Act Four, "Party On." So to end our show today we have the story of a very effective, and perhaps counter-intuitive, propaganda campaign that started in China, right in the aftermath of Tiananmen Square.
第四幕，“派对开始”。因此，在今天结束我们的节目时，我们要讲的是天安门广场事件发生后在中国发起的一场非常有效、也许违反直觉的宣传活动。
Of course, Tiananmen Square was 1989.
当然，天安门广场是1989年。
The government killed an unknown number of people-- at least hundreds, possibly 2,000, many of them students, who'd been calling for democracy and other changes.
政府杀害了数量不详的人——至少数百人，可能有两千人，其中许多是学生，他们一直在呼吁民主和其他变革。
Nancy Updike talked to Evan Osnos.
南希·厄普代克与埃文·奥斯诺斯进行了交谈。
He's a staff writer for The New Yorker who spent seven years reporting in China about how the Chinese leadership adapted in the aftermath.
他是《纽约客》的特约撰稿人，花了七年时间在中国报道中国领导层如何适应灾后情况。
The country's leaders were shocked by the demonstrations at Tiananmen.
该国领导人对天安门的示威活动感到震惊。
Because until then, for 40 years, they had been deploying a package of propaganda that worked.
因为在那之前的 40 年里，他们一直在部署一套行之有效的宣传手段。
Its message was the Communist Party brought a glorious transformation to China.
它传达的信息是共产党给中国带来了辉煌的转变。
The country was the envy of the world because of that transformation.
由于这一转变，这个国家受到了全世界的羡慕。
It had the best political system possible.
它拥有尽可能最好的政治制度。
And the party had made everyone's lives better.
党让每个人的生活都变得更好。
And the government thought most people accepted that, until Tiananmen filled up with students and others who had clearly been seduced by foreign notions.
政府认为大多数人都接受了这一点，直到天安门广场上挤满了学生和其他显然受到外国观念诱惑的人。
That was, by any definition, a failure of Chinese education and propaganda.
从任何意义上来说，这都是中国教育和宣传的失败。
That's how the party viewed it.
党内就是这么看的。
That's Evan Osnos.
那是埃文·奥斯诺斯。
Evan Osnos In fact, for a while they talked about getting rid of the propaganda department.
埃文·奥斯诺斯 事实上，有一段时间他们谈论摆脱宣传部门。
They said it's been such a failure.
他们说这是一次失败的经历。
But instead of getting rid of it, they, in fact, doubled down on it.
但事实上，他们并没有放弃它，而是加倍努力。
They doubled down, but not in the way you'd expect, not by getting even more shrill about the greatness of the nation and the happiness of the people.
他们加倍努力，但不是以你想象的方式，不是更加尖锐地宣扬国家的伟大和人民的幸福。
The party could see that people weren't buying it anymore.
该党可以看到人们不再买账了。
And they weren't buying it because the truth was too stark.
但他们并不买账，因为事实太残酷了。
After four decades of communist rule, people were not as poor as they'd been, though they were still poor.
经过四十年的共产主义统治，人们不再像以前那么穷了，尽管他们仍然很穷。
But the thing that was really getting to them was the blatant corruption.
但真正困扰他们的是公然的腐败。
They couldn't help noticing that party members and their families kept getting richer and richer.
他们不禁注意到，党员及其家人越来越富有。
For some in China, a dangerous idea had taken root, that maybe people elsewhere had it better.
对于一些中国人来说，一种危险的想法已经根深蒂固，认为也许其他地方的人过得更好。
What the government needed at this point was not some upbeat slogan, but a radical new approach to explaining why foreign notions were a trap and why communism was still the best path for China.
政府此时需要的不是一些乐观的口号，而是一种激进的新方法来解释为什么外国观念是一个陷阱以及为什么共产主义仍然是中国的最佳道路。
This new idea had to be something big.
这个新想法一定是一件大事。
It couldn't admit mistakes or failures of any kind by communist leaders.
它不能承认共产党领导人的任何错误或失败。
And it would be great if this new idea had some truth in it, because truth is the magic ingredient in strong propaganda.
如果这个新想法有一定道理那就太好了，因为真理是强有力的宣传的神奇成分。
What the party decided on was--
党的决定是——
Guochi, national humiliation.
国赤，国耻。
The term itself is wuwang guochi, never forget national humiliation.
这个词本身就是武王国耻，不忘国耻。
Humiliation, in this context, has a precise meaning.
在这种情况下，羞辱具有明确的含义。
It means defeat at the hands of foreign armies.
这意味着败在外国军队手中。
It means invasion.
意思是入侵。
It's hard to overestimate how shrewd this move by the party was, to build nationalism by focusing on the country's defeats.
很难高估该党通过关注国家失败来建立民族主义的这一举动是多么精明。
I think to Americans this idea makes no sense.
我认为对于美国人来说这个想法毫无意义。
In the United States we occasionally talk about moments when we were underdogs-- the American Revolution, for instance.
在美国，我们偶尔会谈论我们处于劣势的时刻，例如美国革命。
But that's only because we came out on top.
但这只是因为我们名列前茅。
In general, we see ourselves as a nation of righteous ass kickers.
总的来说，我们认为自己是一个充满正义的国家。
But we're a very young country.
但我们是一个非常年轻的国家。
And unlike China, we've never had the terrifying, humiliating experience of being invaded and occupied.
与中国不同的是，我们从未经历过被侵略和占领的可怕、屈辱的经历。
China, in the 19th and 20th centuries, had been invaded multiple times, plundered by foreigners year after year after year.
十九、二十世纪的中国，曾多次被侵略，年复一年地遭到外国人的掠夺。
National humiliation was not a new idea for China when the party reintroduced it in the 1990s.
当共产党在 20 世纪 90 年代重新引入国耻时，国耻对中国来说并不是一个新概念。
It was an old idea that had fallen out of fashion.
这是一个已经过时的旧想法。
They dusted off this old idea from Chinese history that went all the way back to the beginning of the 20th century.
他们把这个可以追溯到20世纪初的中国历史上的旧观念重新拾起来。
And they said here it is, humiliation.
他们说这就是羞辱。
Humiliation has been marketed in China, in a way.
在某种程度上，羞辱已经在中国得到了营销。
Quite literally, it's been marketing.
从字面上看，这就是营销。
At one point, in the '20s, there was a Chinese newspaper that was selling national humiliation towels so that people could wash their face every day and remember national humiliation.
20世纪20年代，有一家中国报纸在出售国耻毛巾，以便人们每天洗脸，记住国耻。
Because they're towel would remind them of that.
因为毛巾会让他们想起这一点。
And in the '90s, in the years after Tienanmen Square, the whole apparatus of government was basically enlisted in service of making sure that young people were thinking about the ways in which the country had been harmed by foreigners over the course of their history.
在上世纪九十年代，也就是天安门广场事件之后的几年里，整个政府机构基本上都在服务，以确保年轻人思考这个国家在其历史进程中是如何受到外国人伤害的。
National humiliation became a central concept in China after 1991-- in educational materials, in films, in textbooks, including a brand new textbook called--
1991年后，国耻成为中国的一个中心概念——在教育材料、电影、教科书中，包括一本名为——
The Practical Dictionary of Patriotic Education.
实用爱国主义教育词典。
And it included 355 pages on the subject of China's humiliations.
其中有 355 页的内容涉及中国的屈辱。
So that included battles that China had lost, and places in which foreign soldiers had killed civilians, for instance.
例如，这包括中国输掉的战斗，以及外国士兵杀害平民的地方。
And there were these terms that became very important.
这些术语变得非常重要。
So for instance, one of the things that they taught, over and over again, was called the bainian guochi, or the century of national humiliation.
举例来说，他们一遍又一遍地教导的一件事被称为“百年国耻”或“百年国耻”。
The century of national humiliation was a name for the 100 years starting from the first Opium War, when Britain forced China to cede Hong Kong, up through the brutal Japanese occupation of parts of China before and during the Second World War.
国耻世纪是从第一次鸦片战争开始的一百年的名称，当时英国强迫中国割让香港，一直到第二次世界大战之前和期间日本残酷占领中国部分地区。
To commemorate the century national humiliation, the Chinese government built museums and designated dozens of sites all over the country in the '90s, including many places of defeat and invasion.
为了纪念百年国耻，中国政府在90年代在全国各地修建了博物馆并划定了数十处遗址，其中包括许多战败地和侵略地。
Places that, really, previously nobody had cared about, the sites of old battle and things.
事实上，以前没有人关心过的地方，古老的战斗地点和事物。
And they started turning these into sacred sites.
他们开始把这些变成圣地。
And that was some of the language they used.
这就是他们使用的一些语言。
They used this really religious language.
他们使用了这种真正的宗教语言。
These became part of normal education.
这些成为正常教育的一部分。
You would go there on field trips.
你会去那里进行实地考察。
For instance, students were expected to go to a certain number of field trips by the time they graduated from middle school to patriotic education sites.
例如，学生在中学毕业时就被要求去一定次数的爱国主义教育场所进行实地考察。
You would go to places in China and you would see references to this subject of guochi, national humiliation.
你去中国的一些地方，你会看到有关“国耻”这个主题的提及。
You'd see it inscribed, for instance, on the wall, at the front of a museum.
例如，您会看到它被刻在博物馆前面的墙上。
Inside the Communist Party, it became a frenzy to see who could support the idea of national humiliation most vehemently, most perfectly.
在共产党内部，人们热衷于看谁能最强烈、最完美地支持国耻思想。
The National People's Congress approved a holiday called National Humiliation Day.
全国人民代表大会批准了一个名为“国耻日”的节日。
But then there was too much enthusiasm.
但当时的热情太高了。
There were so many proposals in the Congress for which day that should be.
国会里有很多建议，认为这一天应该定在哪一天。
And some people wanted it to be September 18.
有些人希望是 9 月 18 日。
September 18, the beginning of Japan's occupation of Manchuria.
9月18日，日本开始占领满洲里。
And some people wanted it to be September 7.
有些人希望是 9 月 7 日。
The day of defeat for a Chinese uprising against the British and others.
中国反抗英国和其他国家的起义失败的日子。
And some people said no, no. It should be in June.
有些人说不，不。应该是六月。
In June there had been a massacre in the 1920s.
20世纪20年代6月发生了一场大屠杀。
They couldn't agree on one.
他们无法就一项达成一致。
And so they didn't end up instituting it.
所以他们最终没有实行它。
Great.
伟大的。
I called a young Chinese woman named Shu Cao Mo.
我给一位名叫舒草沫的中国年轻女子打了电话。
She's part of that first generation of Chinese students who were taught this new, post-Tienanmen curriculum.
她是第一代学习天安门事件后新课程的中国学生之一。
Shu Cao left China for college.
曹舒离开中国去上大学。
She came to the US, to Duke University.
她来到美国，来到杜克大学。
She still lives here.
她还住在这里。
She remembers, as a kid, learning the key phrases, national humiliation, century of humiliation, how foreigners had invaded and abused China, until the Communist Party came to power in a great revolution.
她记得小时候学过的关键词：国耻、百年耻辱、外国人如何侵略、虐待中国，直到共产党在一场伟大的革命中掌权。
Details of the revolution were omitted-- mass starvation, torture, ideological conformity at all costs.
革命的细节被省略了——大规模饥饿、酷刑、不惜一切代价的意识形态整合。
It was really this sense of this humiliation, this century of humiliation, legitimizes revolution.
确实是这种屈辱感，这个世纪的屈辱感，使革命合法化。
And in the textbooks, what I kept learning was how we had those revolutionary heroes who are supposed to be our role models.
在教科书中，我不断学习的是我们如何拥有那些应该成为我们榜样的革命英雄。
These stories about revolutionary heroes appeared throughout the curriculum, often without using the words "national humiliation" at all.
这些关于革命英雄的故事贯穿整个课程，通常根本不使用“国耻”这个词。
The phrase was only the most blunt, noticeable part of the campaign.
这句话只是竞选活动中最直率、最引人注目的部分。
Shu Cao says the concept was embedded all over, especially in stories.
曹舒说，这个概念无处不在，尤其是在故事中。
In college, she got a scholarship to look at how nationalism is taught in children's books, including textbooks, in three places-- the US, Germany, and China.
在大学里，她获得了一项奖学金，去研究美国、德国和中国这三个地方的儿童读物（包括教科书）中如何教授民族主义。
For her project, she went back to China and looked at the books she had studied growing up.
为了她的项目，她回到中国并查阅了她成长过程中读过的书籍。
And she also fact checked some of the stories she remembered learning as a kid.
她还事实核查了一些她记得小时候学过的故事。
And it was a strange experience.
这是一次奇怪的经历。
One of these hero stories, she found out, had been modified dramatically in textbooks in order to amp up the humiliation.
她发现，其中一个英雄故事在教科书中被大幅修改，以加剧羞辱。
It was the story about the five martyrs.
这是关于五位烈士的故事。
Who jumped off the cliff in order to save the larger Chinese Army from the Japanese.
他跳下悬崖是为了从日本人手中拯救更大的中国军队。
In Chinese, we call it [CHINESE].
在中文里，我们称之为[CHINESE]。
You sacrifice your small self in order to complete the larger whole.
为了完成更大的整体，你牺牲了自己的小自我。
Yeah.
是的。
And I had always thought that they were dead, because they had sacrificed their lives.
我一直以为他们已经死了，因为他们已经牺牲了自己的生命。
And it was only two years ago, when I was doing that research, that I found out that half of them were still alive.
就在两年前，当我进行这项研究时，我发现其中一半还活着。
It's definitely a better national humiliation story if all the martyrs died, not just some.
如果所有烈士都死了，而不只是一些，那绝对是一个更好的国耻故事。
Shu Cao remembered another story about a Chinese leader, Zhou Enlai, who as a teenager had seen a Chinese woman being bullied by foreign occupiers.
舒草还记得中国领导人周恩来的另一个故事，他十几岁的时候就亲眼目睹了一名中国妇女受到外国占领者的欺凌。
And right then, witnessing that humiliation, he realized what he needed to do.
就在那时，目睹了那场屈辱，他意识到自己需要做什么。
Study for the rise of China.
研究中国的崛起。
And that phrase was being repeated over and over again in that story.
这句话在那个故事中一遍又一遍地重复。
So if you ask any Chinese student, they would know the story and how that became his goal for his life, resurrecting China.
所以如果你问任何一个中国学生，他们都会知道这个故事，以及这如何成为他的人生目标：复兴中国。
Shu Cao hadn't gone to college with the intent of combing through her childhood education.
舒草上大学并不是为了梳理童年的教育。
But once she started, she realized how many questions she had built up over the years.
但一旦开始，她就意识到这些年来自己积累了多少问题。
Growing up in a well-educated family, I had always questioned what's written in my textbooks.
我成长在一个受过良好教育的家庭，我一直对教科书上写的内容提出质疑。
I have always questioned what the authority tells me.
我一直质疑当局告诉我的话。
So it's this slow process of always wondering what's not being said.
所以这是一个总是想知道什么没有被说出来的缓慢过程。
What's not said is, of course, what's so ingenious about the whole campaign to revive national humiliation.
当然，没有说的是整个复活国耻运动的巧妙之处。
By focusing the country's attention on foreign attacks, the party was diverting attention from its own errors and abuses.
通过将国家的注意力集中在外国攻击上，该党正在转移对其自身错误和滥用行为的注意力。
It's a classic misdirect.
这是一个典型的误导。
And both Shu Cao and reporter Evan Osnos say it's worked pretty well, especially with the event that the government has wanted to obscure more than just about any other, Tiananmen.
曹舒和记者埃文·奥斯诺斯都表示，这种做法效果非常好，特别是在天安门事件这一政府最想掩盖的事件上。
Yeah.
是的。
A lot of Chinese young people today, to the degree that they know about it-- and the truth is that a lot of Chinese young people know very little about what happened-- what they'll say is that the young people at Tiananmen were naive.
今天的很多中国年轻人，就他们了解的程度而言——事实上，很多中国年轻人对发生的事情知之甚少——他们会说天安门的年轻人很天真。
And they were tempted by these Western ideas.
他们受到这些西方思想的诱惑。
But those Western ideas aren't suitable for China, and that, had we gone down that path, we wouldn't be where we are today.
但那些西方的想法并不适合中国，如果我们走那条路，我们就不会达到今天的水平。
We wouldn't be this rising superpower.
我们不会成为这个崛起的超级大国。
So it was a humiliation averted, then, Tiananmen.
因此，天安门事件避免了耻辱。
It was.
是的。
They look at it and they really do say we chose the right path.
他们看了之后确实说我们选择了正确的道路。
And it would have been a disaster.
这将是一场灾难。
So in that sense, the education system has done exactly what it was designed to do.
所以从这个意义上说，教育系统完全达到了它的设计初衷。
In 2008, when the Olympics were coming to Beijing, there were demonstrations in China again-- lots of young people, like there were a lot of young people at Tiananmen.
2008年，当奥运会即将在北京举行时，中国再次发生了示威游行——很多年轻人，就像天安门广场上有很多年轻人一样。
But in 2008, what the demonstrators were outraged about was foreigners-- foreigners criticizing China in the run up to the Olympics.
但在2008年，示威者愤怒的是外国人——外国人在奥运会前夕批评中国。
These protests were in support of the government.
这些抗议活动是为了支持政府。
Nancy Updike is a producer for our program.
南希·厄普代克是我们节目的制片人。
Evan Osnos's book about China, Age of Ambition, won the National Book Award for 2014.
埃文·奥斯诺斯（Evan Osnos）关于中国的书《野心时代》荣获 2014 年国家图书奖。
It's out in paperback.
它有平装本。
Our program was produced today by Sean Cole and our senior producer, Brian Reed, Zoe Chace, Neil Drumming, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Sean Cole 和我们的高级制作人 Brian Reed、Zoe Chace、Neil Drumming、Stephanie Foo、Chana Joffe-Walt、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 制作。
Our editor is Joel Lovell.
我们的编辑是乔尔·洛弗尔。
Julie Snyder's our editorial consultant.
朱莉·斯奈德是我们的编辑顾问。
Our technical director is Matt Tierney.
我们的技术总监是马特·蒂尔尼。
Production help from Lilly Sullivan.
莉莉·沙利文 (Lilly Sullivan) 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our production manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson's our business operations manager.
Elise Bergerson 是我们的业务运营经理。
Elma Baker scouts new stories for our show.
艾尔玛·贝克为我们的节目寻找新故事。
Kimberly Henderson is our office coordinator.
Kimberly Henderson 是我们的办公室协调员。
Research help from Christopher Swetala.
克里斯托弗·斯维塔拉 (Christopher Swetala) 提供研究帮助。
Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddis.
Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddis 提供音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] The musical, "The City is Not For Sale," in act two of our program today, was written, directed, and produced by Leslie Einhorn, Jeremy Rourke, and Sharon Boggs.
[致谢] 我们今天节目第二幕的音乐剧《城市不卖》由莱斯利·艾因霍恩、杰里米·洛克和莎朗·博格斯编剧、导演和制作。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, ever since he returned from his South American vacation he has been moping.
你知道，自从他从南美度假回来后，他就一直闷闷不乐。
He'd been complaining how life here seems so dull.
他一直在抱怨这里的生活看起来如此乏味。
There's no friends.
没有朋友。
There's no party.
没有聚会。
There's no aguardiente.
没有守护者。
There's nothing.
什么都没有。
There's no fun.
没有什么乐趣。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。