569: Put a Bow on It - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #569 | October 9, 2015 569: Put a Bow on It Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 569 集 | 2015 年 10 月 9 日 569：鞠躬注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass OK.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 好的。
We are so far past this point now, it's hard to remember when the turning point was.
现在我们已经过了这个阶段，很难记得转折点是什么时候。
But there actually was a turning point, and it was five years ago.
但实际上有一个转折点，那是五年前。
What I'm talking about is you know those weird, mashup foods that fast food places keep gleefully launching into the world, like that pizza with the little hot dogs as the crust that Pizza Hut put out.
我说的是你知道快餐店不断向世界推出那些奇怪的混搭食品，比如必胜客推出的以小热狗为外皮的披萨。
Or Taco Bell did a waffle taco.
或者塔可钟做了华夫饼炸玉米饼。
Denny's put out a grilled cheese sandwich that inside was not just grilled cheese, but also mozzarella sticks inside the sandwich.
丹尼推出了一款烤奶酪三明治，里面不仅有烤奶酪，三明治里还有马苏里拉奶酪条。
Hardees put out a burger that had a cheese steak as the topping for the burger.
哈迪斯推出了一款汉堡，里面有一块奶酪牛排作为汉堡的配料。
Literally, like slices of steak and cheese and onions were on a burger as the topping.
从字面上看，就像汉堡上的牛排、奶酪和洋葱片作为配料。
Anyway, so these Frankenfoods, or food mashups, or extreme foods-- there's no standard term for these yet in the industry-- they've been around for a little while.
不管怎样，这些弗兰肯食品，或者食物混搭，或者极端食物——业内还没有标准术语——它们已经存在了一段时间了。
But there was a turning point.
但出现了一个转折点。
People in the food industry will tell you there was a turning point.
食品行业的人们会告诉你，现在出现了一个转折点。
There was a real turning point, this moment when they kind of came into their own.
这是一个真正的转折点，这一刻他们开始发挥自己的作用。
And it was five years ago, and it was a sandwich called the Double Down.
那是五年前的事了，那是一种叫做“Double Down”的三明治。
KFC put it out.
肯德基把它拿出来了。
You may remember this.
你可能还记得这一点。
This is the one where fried chicken is the bread of the sandwich with bacon and cheese in between.
这是一个炸鸡是三明治的面包，中间有培根和奶酪的三明治。
And with the Double Down, one of the things that made it a turning point was, first of all, how extreme it was.
对于“双倍下注”，让它成为转折点的因素之一首先是它的极端性。
But the other is, I think, it became clear that the food industry was in on the joke.
但我认为，另一个问题是，食品行业显然是在开玩笑。
Like, the Double Down, it was self aware of its own ridiculousness.
就像“双倍下注”一样，它也意识到自己的荒谬。
And whenever I see an ad for one of these things, I've wondered, OK, if these things exist, that means that somewhere, there's a room where people have to make these up and they have to debate, which one are we going to do?
每当我看到这些东西的广告时，我都会想，好吧，如果这些东西存在，那就意味着在某个地方，有一个房间，人们必须在那里制作这些东西，他们必须辩论，我们要做哪一个？
Which means that there's a list.
这意味着有一个列表。
And then there are guys sitting around a table.
然后还有一些人围坐在桌子旁。
And somebody will bring one up, and they'll say, no, no, no. You know, everybody-- we've done that.
有人会提出一个，他们会说，不，不，不。大家知道，我们已经做到了。
Everybody's done-- that's so old.
每个人都完成了——那已经太旧了。
That's tired.
那很累了。
And somebody will bring up another one.
有人会提出另一个。
They'll be like, sir, you've gone too far.
他们会说，先生，你太过分了。
You know, and I just was like-- I just wanted to know, like, what happens in that room?
你知道，我只是想知道，那个房间里发生了什么？
What is that discussion like?
那个讨论是什么样的？
And fortunately, I work with somebody who also was interested, and she ran this down.
幸运的是，我和一个也对此感兴趣的人一起工作，她把这件事记录了下来。
Zoe Chace, welcome to show.
佐伊·切斯，欢迎表演。
Oh hello, Ira.
哦你好，艾拉。
Ira Glass Hello.
艾拉·格拉斯 你好。
So Zoe, you went to the room where this happens.
佐伊，你去了发生这种情况的房间。
I did.
我做到了。
I went to Saint Louis, Hardee's headquarters.
我去了圣路易斯，哈迪的总部。
Hardee's is the same company as Carl's Jr. And I brought you back a souvenir, Ira.
Hardee's 和 Carl's Jr. 是同一家公司。 Ira，我给你带了一份纪念品。
In fact, there is a list.
事实上，有一个清单。
This is possible burgers that do not yet exist, that are just in the minds of the people at Hardee's.
这种汉堡可能还不存在，只是存在于 Hardee's 员工的脑海中。
And they wrote them down on this list.
他们把它们写在这个清单上。
And before I give you the list, because I know you want the list, I just want to play a little game with you.
在我给你这份清单之前，因为我知道你想要这份清单，我只想和你玩一个小游戏。
Sure.
当然。
Zoe Chace I'm going to read you two burgers.
佐伊·查斯（Zoe Chace）我要给你读两个汉堡。
One of them is from the list.
其中之一来自列表。
One of them I just made up.
其中一张是我刚刚编出来的。
See if you can figure out which one is real.
看看你能否辨别出哪一个是真的。
OK.
好的。
Zoe Chace First, the Napa burger, OK.
Zoe Chace 首先是纳帕汉堡，好吧。
Caramelized onions, Merlot glaze, arugula.
焦糖洋葱、梅洛釉、芝麻菜。
And the Beyonce burger.
还有碧昂斯汉堡。
Honey, and if you like it, you put an onion ring on it.
亲爱的，如果你喜欢的话，你可以在上面放一个洋葱圈。
It's genius.
这是天才。
Ira Glass That is genius.
艾拉·格拉斯 这是天才。
I just want to say for older people, there's a song by Beyonce, OK?
我只想对老年人说，有一首碧昂丝的歌，好吗？
Everybody knows this song.
大家都知道这首歌。
You don't have to explain it to our audience.
你不必向我们的观众解释它。
OK.
好的。
So-- Zoe Chace So the Napa burger or the Beyonce burger.
那么——佐伊·查斯（Zoe Chace） 那么纳帕汉堡或碧昂丝汉堡。
I, mean the Beyonce burger sounds too good to be true.
我的意思是碧昂斯汉堡听起来好得令人难以置信。
But I have to say the Napa burger, it doesn't sound like you would market a Merlot thing to a fast food customer.
但我不得不说纳帕汉堡，听起来不像你会向快餐顾客推销梅洛的东西。
It seems like a completely different market, right?
这看起来是一个完全不同的市场，对吧？
Like, somebody who's into Merlot is not at a fast food place buying a burger, I think.
我想，喜欢梅洛的人不会在快餐店买汉堡。
Snob.
势利。
Ira Glass OK, fair enough.
艾拉·格拉斯 好吧，很公平。
But I still think that Merlot drinkers are not going to want their fancy Merlot on a fast food burger, so I'm going with the Beyonce burger.
但我仍然认为喝梅洛的人不会想要在快餐汉堡上搭配他们精美的梅洛，所以我会选择碧昂斯汉堡。
No. That is not correct.
不，那是不正确的。
I made up the Beyonce burger.
我做了碧昂斯汉堡。
All right.
好的。
All right.
好的。
Zoe Chace OK.
佐伊·切斯 好的。
Do you want to do another one?
您想再做一件吗？
One more.
再来一张。
Zoe Chace OK.
佐伊·切斯 好的。
All right.
好的。
These two.
这两个。
50 shades of pork burger.
50种颜色的猪肉汉堡。
OK.
好的。
Zoe Chace The burger itself is 50% pork, 50% patty, bacon aioli and whipped bacon on top.
Zoe Chace 汉堡本身由 50% 猪肉、50% 肉饼、培根蒜泥蛋黄酱和顶部的生培根组成。
Here's the other burger, a clambake burger.
这是另一个汉堡，蛤烤汉堡。
Fried clams, corn salsa, Narragansett lager glaze.
炸蛤蜊、玉米莎莎酱、纳拉甘塞特啤酒釉。
Well, they both seem totally unlikely.
好吧，他们似乎都完全不可能。
I'm going to go with 50 shades of pork just because the name is so great.
我要选择50色猪肉，因为这个名字太棒了。
OK.
好的。
So Zoe, so there's this list of all these burgers.
佐伊，这是所有这些汉堡的清单。
They make this list.
他们列出了这个清单。
What happens then?
然后会发生什么？
OK.
好的。
So the next thing is that a team of executives will just vote up or down, simple vote.
因此，接下来的事情是，高管团队将投票赞成或反对，简单的投票。
This is just like their feeling about it?
这就像他们的感觉一样吗？
This is just based on the name of the burger, like what they think.
这只是基于汉堡的名称，就像他们所想的那样。
OK.
好的。
Zoe Chace And they whittle the list down to about 30.
Zoe Chace 他们将名单缩减到大约 30 个。
The next step in the process is maybe the most important because the next step is the taste test.
该过程中的下一步可能是最重要的，因为下一步是味道测试。
And in the taste test, they make the burgers.
在口味测试中，他们制作了汉堡。
They make the burgers that they imagined up in that room.
他们在那个房间里制作了他们想象中的汉堡。
And a few guys sit down in a room.
几个人坐在一个房间里。
They eat the sandwiches.
他们吃三明治。
They discuss intensely.
他们激烈讨论。
And they decide which ones will be real, which ones are going to move forward, actually be marketed, released into a few restaurants, tested on actual consumers and maybe go national.
他们决定哪些是真实的，哪些将继续前进，实际进行营销，发布到几家餐馆，在实际消费者中进行测试，甚至可能走向全国。
OK.
好的。
And so this is the room where they figure out, Zoe, not just what the new foods are going to be but what they're going to call them and what story they're going to tell us to get us to buy them?
因此，佐伊，他们在这个房间里不仅要弄清楚新食品是什么，还要弄清楚他们要给它们起什么名字，以及他们要告诉我们什么故事来吸引我们购买它们？
Yes.
是的。
Ira Glass Because I assume, like a lot of situations-- and this is actually the subject of today's radio show-- so often, what's important is not the literal facts of what's real but how you tell the story, what you say about it.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：因为我认为，就像很多情况一样——这实际上是今天广播节目的主题——很多时候，重要的不是真实的字面事实，而是你如何讲述这个故事，你所说的内容。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
We have arrived at Act One of our show, where Zoe, you go to--
我们已经到了节目的第一幕，佐伊，你要去的地方——
The room where it happens.
事情发生的房间。
Ira Glass Tell us everything.
艾拉·格拉斯 告诉我们一切。
First, the room.
首先，房间。
It's a kitchen, a fast food kitchen, an exact replica of what you'd find at a Hardees-- a charbroiler, a walk-in fridge, a fixing station, fryers.
这是一个厨房，一个快餐厨房，是哈迪斯餐厅的一模一样的复制品——烧烤炉、步入式冰箱、固定站、油炸锅。
In the room are the men-- Brad, Bruce, Mark, and Eric.
房间里有这些人——布拉德、布鲁斯、马克和埃里克。
Brad shows off the kitchen.
布拉德展示厨房。
And this is kind of the engine of our restaurants because we charbroil our burgers and chicken sandwiches.
这是我们餐厅的引擎，因为我们烤汉堡和鸡肉三明治。
So there's a charbroiler here that feeds--
所以这里有一个烧烤炉可以喂食——
Picture a group of slightly nerdy science teachers-- Dockers, short sleeved button-up types.
想象一下一群有点书呆子的科学老师——码头工人，短袖系扣式。
That's what they look like.
这就是他们的样子。
But these guys are a big deal in their industry.
但这些人在他们的行业中是举足轻重的。
They're trendsetters.
他们是潮流引领者。
For instance, meat as a condiment, these guys made that a thing.
例如，肉作为调味品，这些人把它变成了一种东西。
Like pastrami on a hamburger, or that cheese steak on top of the burger, that was in the early days of the food mashups.
就像汉堡上的熏牛肉，或者汉堡上的奶酪牛排，那是在食物混搭的早期。
And Brad helped save another fast food company years ago, Jack in the Box.
几年前，布拉德帮助拯救了另一家快餐公司“Jack in the Box”。
In 1993, maybe the most famous food poisoning episode in burger history, when E.
1993 年，也许是汉堡历史上最著名的食物中毒事件，当时 E.
Coli from Jack in the Box burgers killed four kids.
盒子里的杰克汉堡里的大肠杆菌杀死了四个孩子。
Brad was in charge of the ad campaign that's credited with saving the company.
布拉德负责的广告活动被认为拯救了公司。
We're going to start with breakfast items and get our palate warmed up that way.
我们将从早餐开始，这样我们的味觉就会变暖。
Today, Brad, Bruce, Mark, and Eric sit together at an industrial table, me too.
今天，布拉德、布鲁斯、马克和埃里克坐在一张工业桌子旁，我也是。
We each have a place setting and a printed menu.
我们每个人都有一个座位设置和一份印刷菜单。
We'll start with the cinnamon swirl French toast breakfast sandwich, kind of a sweet and savory combination for breakfast.
我们将从肉桂漩涡法式吐司早餐三明治开始，这是一种甜味和咸味早餐的组合。
A steak and egg biscuit after that.
之后是牛排和鸡蛋饼干。
A mac and cheese Thickburger.
通心粉和奶酪厚汉堡。
I'm reading this now.
我现在正在读这个。
Stakehouse Thickburger, big chicken masher, pepperoni pizza fries, and a Ding Dong ice cream sandwich for dessert.
Stakehouse 厚汉堡、大鸡肉捣碎机、意大利辣香肠披萨薯条和叮咚冰淇淋三明治作为甜点。
And they have to maintain an appetite through the whole thing.
他们必须在整个过程中保持食欲。
And the only way we can do it is these cups become very important.
我们能做到这一点的唯一方法就是让这些杯子变得非常重要。
We use spit cups.
我们用的是吐痰杯。
It's like a wine taster or a coffee taster.
它就像一个品酒师或一个咖啡品尝师。
Except burgers.
除了汉堡。
Just big, plastic to go cups full of chewed up burger.
只是很大的塑料杯子，里面装满了咀嚼过的汉堡。
A wrapped up breakfast sandwich then arrives in front of each of us, the steak and egg biscuit.
然后一份包装好的早餐三明治就送到了我们每个人的面前，牛排和鸡蛋饼干。
Steak and egg biscuit.
牛排和鸡蛋饼干。
Zoe Chace Bite, chew, spit.
Zoe Chace 咬、咀嚼、吐。
The biscuit, I'll say, incredible.
我会说，饼干棒极了。
Steak and egg, eh.
牛排和鸡蛋，嗯。
Then, one by one, they each give their opinion.
然后，他们就一一发表了自己的看法。
I like the idea of a steak and egg biscuit but I was expecting kind of more of a grill flavor.
我喜欢牛排和鸡蛋饼干的想法，但我期待更多的烧烤味道。
Visually also, I thought I really wanted to see, like, the charbroiled character.
在视觉上，我想我真的很想看到炭烤的角色。
And it looked a little more baked or boiled kind of beef.
它看起来更像是烤或煮的牛肉。
It didn't have the visual I wanted, so I think we've got some work to do.
它没有达到我想要的视觉效果，所以我认为我们还有一些工作要做。
Mark?
标记？
Yeah, pretty similar.
是的，非常相似。
Zoe Chace These guys aren't chefs.
Zoe Chace 这些人不是厨师。
They're marketers.
他们是营销人员。
Their expertise is in, will America actually buy this thing, which is answered in the look as much as the taste.
他们的专长是，美国人真的会买这个东西吗？这个问题的答案不仅体现在外观上，也体现在味道上。
The next sandwich up, it's a large burger.
下一个三明治是一个大汉堡。
Bacon mac and cheese Thickburger.
培根通心粉和奶酪厚汉堡。
Macaroni and cheese, and bacon bits.
通心粉和奶酪，还有培根块。
Again, chew, spit, talk.
再次，咀嚼、吐痰、说话。
It tastes like a bacon cheeseburger, a good one, but it's weird because noodles.
味道像培根芝士汉堡，不错，但是因为面条有点奇怪。
I'm not sure what to do with this one because it's cheesy, which is really important.
我不知道该怎么处理这个，因为它很俗气，这一点非常重要。
You taste the macaroni and cheese.
您品尝通心粉和奶酪。
But overall, that's kind of a bland flavor.
但总的来说，这是一种平淡的味道。
And if we put other ingredients on it to make it overall more flavorful, I'm a little worried we're going to cover up the mac and cheese because it's a subtle flavor.
如果我们在上面加入其他成分以使其整体更美味，我有点担心我们会掩盖通心粉和奶酪，因为它的味道很微妙。
So I have no good idea for how to fix that.
所以我不知道如何解决这个问题。
Fun idea, though.
不过，这个想法很有趣。
Same thing.
同样的事情。
I was struggling with it.
我正在为此挣扎。
I don't know if it's texturally, there's nothing that comes through with the macaroni.
我不知道是不是质地上的问题，通心粉没有什么味道。
There's nothing that just makes it pop.
没有什么能让它流行起来。
I guess I was just wondering where was the hot sauce.
我想我只是想知道辣酱在哪里。
Brad, Bruce, Mark, and Eric are pensive.
布拉德、布鲁斯、马克和埃里克陷入沉思。
The hot sauce idea is kind of interesting.
辣酱的想法很有趣。
It could actually be like a buffalo mac and cheese would be kind of-- yeah, that would be pretty cool.
它实际上可能就像水牛通心粉和奶酪一样——是的，那会很酷。
Tabasco might be too just vinegary, but buffalo might work.
塔巴斯科可能太醋了，但水牛可能有用。
Let's try it.
我们来试试吧。
Man 1 Would we add it as a sauce or would it be blended into the cheese of the mac and cheese?
男士 1 我们会将其作为酱汁添加还是将其混合到通心粉和奶酪的奶酪中？
Either way.
无论哪种方式。
I think I'd like the visual better if it was added as a sauce because then it would run like streaks through.
我想如果它作为酱汁添加，我会更喜欢视觉效果，因为那样它会像条纹一样穿过。
I am giddy with power, OK.
我对权力感到头晕，好吧。
I can't believe what just happened.
我不敢相信刚刚发生的事情。
Eric says he's going to do some more testing, bring the bacon mac and cheese burger back to the group with a buffalo wing sauce.
埃里克说他将做更多测试，将培根通心粉和奶酪汉堡与水牛翅酱一起带回团队。
There are a few reasons that guys like these are churning through these food mashups right now.
像这样的人现在正在尝试这些食物混搭有几个原因。
One big one is fast food is losing market share to places like Chipotle, Panera, more upscale, healthier.
其中一大问题是快餐的市场份额正在被 Chipotle、Panera 等更高档、更健康的地方夺走。
So a way for fast food to compete is to go in the other direction-- downscale, greasier, sell to their core customers, 18 to 34-year-old guys.
因此，快餐竞争的一种方式是走另一个方向——规模较小、油腻一些，卖给他们的核心客户，即 18 至 34 岁的男性。
Though industry analysts told me it's nearly as many women as men.
尽管行业分析师告诉我，女性的数量几乎与男性一样多。
And of course, there's money to be made in selling a sandwich that makes people want to take a picture of themselves while they eat it, but only to a point.
当然，出售一种让人们在吃三明治时想给自己拍照的三明治是可以赚钱的，但只是在一定程度上。
The question is, will they eat it twice?
问题是，他们会吃两次吗？
The Double Down, you know the one where the chicken is the bun, as groundbreaking as it was, it didn't sell that great after people tried it once.
Double Down，你知道那种以鸡肉为面包的东西，尽管它具有开创性，但在人们尝试过一次之后，它的销量却没有那么好。
Brad, Bruce, Mark, and Eric say it's too expensive to roll out a new product that you'd never order twice.
布拉德、布鲁斯、马克和埃里克表示，推出一款你永远不会订购两次的新产品成本太高。
This is a taco that's the talk of the town.
这是镇上谈论的炸玉米饼。
What they want is something that food industry people say Taco Bell did better than anybody in 2012, when they released that taco whose shell was a Dorito.
他们想要的是食品行业人士所说的 Taco Bell 在 2012 年做得比任何人都要好的东西，当时他们推出了外壳是 Dorito 的 Taco。
It's what one marketing consultant calls a marriage made in belly busting heaven.
这就是一位营销顾问所称的“天作之合”。
Doritos, the Super Bowl brand that helped turn America into a nation of chunky chip munchers, providing a nacho cheese flavored shell.
多力多滋（Doritos）是超级碗品牌，它提供了玉米片奶酪风味的外壳，帮助美国变成了一个爱吃厚片薯片的国家。
The Doritos Locos Taco sold and sold and sold and sold-- $375 million in its first year.
Doritos Locos Taco 的销量第一年就达到了 3.75 亿美元。
This is an amazing year for Taco Bell.
对于塔可钟来说，今年是令人惊奇的一年。
Every sandwich that arrives on our plates here in Hardee's test kitchen, that is the goal.
在 Hardee 的测试厨房里，每一个三明治送到我们的盘子上，这就是我们的目标。
This is a new sandwich idea.
这是一个新的三明治创意。
Zoe Chace The next sandwich is up.
佐伊·切斯 下一个三明治已经做好了。
It's called Big Chicken Mashers.
它的名字叫“大鸡捣碎机”。
It's got mashed potatoes and brown gravy on it, some garlic pepper, onion straws, American cheese, and our big chicken filets.
上面有土豆泥和棕色肉汁，一些大蒜辣椒，洋葱吸管，美国奶酪，还有我们的大鸡肉片。
Well, I don't know.
嗯，我不知道。
Man 2 If we can't come up with a name, it's probably not going to sell.
Man 2 如果我们不能想出一个名字，它可能就卖不出去。
We run into that a lot where we have a great product, but what do you do with it?
当我们拥有出色的产品时，我们经常会遇到这种情况，但你会用它做什么呢？
Careful.
小心。
Hot out of the fryer.
热气腾腾地从油炸锅里出来。
Might be [INAUDIBLE].
可能是[听不清]。
The Big Chicken Masher turns the taste test metaphysical, like actually.
大鸡捣碎机将味觉测试变成了形而上学，就像实际上一样。
The issues that plague the masher are beyond its physical traits, because its physical traits are pretty good.
困扰捣碎者的问题超出了它的物理特性，因为它的物理特性相当不错。
I really like the flavors.
我真的很喜欢这些味道。
It's like eating a Sunday chicken dinner.
这就像周日吃鸡肉晚餐。
The mashed potatoes, the gravy goes really well with the flavor of that crispy chicken.
土豆泥、肉汁和脆皮鸡的味道非常相配。
I really like the crunchies in there.
我真的很喜欢里面的脆饼。
So I like the product.
所以我喜欢这个产品。
The idea I'm worried about.
我所担心的想法。
I'm not sure there's a market out there for people to eat mashed potatoes on a sandwich.
我不确定是否有市场供人们在三明治上吃土豆泥。
I don't know if we can sell it, but I think anybody who bought it would really like it.
我不知道我们是否可以出售它，但我认为任何购买它的人都会非常喜欢它。
But--
但是——
It's not enough for a product to taste good.
产品仅仅味道好还不够。
It has to sound good or you'll never find out that it tastes good.
它必须听起来不错，否则你永远不会发现它味道好。
It also has to kind of hold together as an idea.
它还必须作为一个想法结合在一起。
It can't just be five ingredients that we put together and it tastes good.
它不可能只是我们把五种原料放在一起而且味道很好。
What they're looking for is the story they're going to tell to explain why the weirdness makes sense.
他们正在寻找的是他们要讲述的故事来解释为什么这种怪异是有道理的。
And it's got to be a pretty good story-- simple, punchy.
这一定是一个非常好的故事——简单、有力。
Half ironic wouldn't hurt.
半点讽刺也无伤大雅。
That is just as hard as coming up with the sandwich.
这就像制作三明治一样困难。
Here's an example of when it works.
这是一个何时起作用的示例。
The product is a hamburger topped with a hot dog topped with potato chips.
该产品是一个汉堡包，上面放着热狗，上面放着薯片。
But listen to the story they tell about it.
但听听他们讲述的故事。
What's more American than a cheeseburger?
还有什么比芝士汉堡更美国化的呢？
This cheeseburger, loaded with a hot dog and potato chips, in the hands of All-American model Samantha Hoopes in a hot tub in a pickup truck driven by an American bull rider on an aircraft carrier under the gaze of Lady Liberty as she admires the most American Thickburger with a split hot dog--
这个装满热狗和薯片的芝士汉堡，在美国名模萨曼莎·胡普斯 (Samantha Hoopes) 的手中，在一辆小卡车的热水浴缸里，而卡车是由美国公牛骑手驾驶的，在航空母舰上，在自由女神的注视下，她欣赏着最美国式的厚汉堡和分割热狗——
It can be really hard to figure out what to say even about a burger that's delicious.
即使是美味的汉堡，也很难弄清楚该说什么。
And sometimes they get stuck, like when they put pulled pork on a burger-- not the most appetizing picture the way I just described it.
有时他们会被卡住，比如当他们把拉猪肉放在汉堡上时——这不是我刚才描述的最令人胃口大开的画面。
And Brad says it didn't test well.
布拉德说它测试得不好。
And we kept trying different names.
我们不断尝试不同的名字。
We had called it the pulled pork burger or the southern burger.
我们称之为手撕猪肉汉堡或南方汉堡。
And finally, I think Bruce had the idea of calling it the Memphis Barbecue Burger.
最后，我认为布鲁斯想到了将其称为孟菲斯烧烤汉堡。
And we tried that and it worked incredibly well.
我们尝试过，效果非常好。
What do you think it is about the word "Memphis" that's evocative in the way that pulled pork is not?
你认为“孟菲斯”这个词有哪些地方比手撕猪肉更能唤起人们的回忆？
I think it made it a bigger story.
我认为这使它成为一个更大的故事。
And Memphis obviously just sounds like they would know barbecue, so it sounded like it was more of a creation.
孟菲斯显然只是听起来他们会烧烤，所以听起来更像是一种创造。
The chicken masher needs that kind of story.
捣鸡师需要这样的故事。
Say the mama's chicken sandwich, like a Sunday chicken dinner at grandma's on a farm with a handmade quilt as the tablecloth with a basket of puppies on the table.
说妈妈的鸡肉三明治，就像周日在农场的奶奶家吃鸡肉晚餐，桌布是手工缝制的被子，桌子上有一篮子小狗。
And you're seven years old again and it's your birthday.
你又七岁了，今天是你的生日。
And they're considering something like that, but they're cautious.
他们正在考虑类似的事情，但他们很谨慎。
Even the macaroni and cheese burger, they tell me, is an easier sell than the chicken masher.
他们告诉我，即使是通心粉和奶酪汉堡也比鸡肉捣碎器更容易卖。
Cheese is something that people already are looking for on a burger, that they expect on a burger.
人们已经在汉堡上寻找、期望在汉堡上添加奶酪。
We've only thrown one new thing in.
我们只添加了一件新东西。
Throwing in mashed potatoes and gravy is not something people have really ever seen on a chicken sandwich.
人们在鸡肉三明治上从来没有见过加入土豆泥和肉汁的东西。
So the macaroni is the new part of the macaroni and cheese.
所以通心粉是通心粉和奶酪的新组成部分。
The mashed potatoes and gravy is all new.
土豆泥和肉汁都是新的。
Oh, I see.
我懂了。
The leap is greater, you think, for the person getting the sandwich.
你认为，对于得到三明治的人来说，飞跃更大。
The leap is greater.
跳跃幅度更大。
Zoe Chace Mashed potatoes goes too far.
佐伊·切斯（Zoe Chace）土豆泥太过分了。
Note: At this stage in this kitchen, there are no consumer surveys, no charts in front of them, no research, just gut.
注意：在这个厨房的这个阶段，没有消费者调查，面前没有图表，没有研究，只有直觉。
They just have a feeling people will be weirded out.
他们只是有一种感觉，人们会感到奇怪。
And that feeling is built into this process.
这种感觉已经融入到这个过程中。
What happens next is more data driven.
接下来发生的事情更多是由数据驱动的。
They test some of the sandwiches in a dozen restaurants, put up all the advertising like it's a national rollout, then survey everyone who orders one.
他们在十几家餐馆测试了一些三明治，像全国推广一样张贴了所有广告，然后对所有订购三明治的人进行了调查。
But that's in the future.
但那是未来的事了。
For now, it's Brad, Bruce, Mark, and Eric just geeking out here in the room where it happens.
目前，布拉德、布鲁斯、马克和埃里克只是在发生这种情况的房间里闲逛。
It's like somebody playing you their favorite songs.
这就像有人给你播放他们最喜欢的歌曲。
Brad came up with this one.
布拉德想出了这个。
It tastes like-- well, see what you think, but it tastes like a pepperoni pizza with a French fry crust, which is kind of like two wonderful things coming together.
它尝起来就像——好吧，看看你怎么想，但它尝起来像意大利辣香肠披萨配上炸薯条皮，有点像两种美妙的东西结合在一起。
The guys seem to like it.
小伙子们似乎很喜欢它。
I don't.
我不知道。
I'm like, why bathe fries in marinara?
我想，为什么要把薯条浸泡在番茄酱里呢？
Why macaroni and cheese yes and mashed potatoes no?
为什么通心粉和奶酪可以，而土豆泥不行？
There is no answer.
没有答案。
There's mystery.
有玄机啊
It's just a feeling.
这只是一种感觉。
Zoe Chace is one of the producers of our show.
佐伊·查斯是我们节目的制片人之一。
[MUSIC - "THE ROOM WHERE IT HAPPENS" BY LESLIE ODOM, JR., LIN-MANUEL MIRANDA, DAVEED DIGGS, ORIERIETE ONAODOWAN, AND ORIGINAL BROADWAY CAST OF HAMILTON]
[音乐 - “THE ROOM WHERE IT HAPPENS”，作者：小莱斯利·奥多姆 (LESLIE ODOM, JR.)、林-曼努埃尔·米兰达 (LIN-MANUEL MIRANDA)、戴夫·迪格斯 (DAVEED DIGGS)、奥里埃特·奥纳杜万 (Orieriete Onaodowan) 以及原百老汇演员汉密尔顿]
Act Two: The Wedding Crasher Ira Glass Act Two, the wedding crasher.
第二幕：婚礼破坏者 艾拉·格拉斯 第二幕，婚礼破坏者。
So today's program is about situations where the facts are not enough by themselves.
所以今天的节目是关于光靠事实还不够的情况。
You need to still figure out what story best goes with those facts.
你仍然需要弄清楚什么故事最符合这些事实。
So the ad about your new fast food burger is as important as the ingredients.
因此，有关新快餐汉堡的广告与配料一样重要。
Well, Ahamefule Oluo has been puzzling over how to tell one story for a lot of his life.
嗯，阿哈弗勒·奥洛一生中的大部分时间都在为如何讲述一个故事而苦恼。
It's the story of a stranger who also is his dad.
这是一个陌生人的故事，也是他的父亲。
I always say that I've never met my father, but that's not really true.
我总是说我从未见过我的父亲，但事实并非如此。
I once spent an entire month with him.
我曾经和他一起度过了整整一个月。
Unfortunately, it was the first month of my life, and I was too busy chewing on my own fist to make the most out of this quality time.
不幸的是，那是我生命的第一个月，我忙着咀嚼自己的拳头，无法充分利用这段美好时光。
My parents had been together seven years when my father went home to visit his family in Nigeria and didn't come back.
当我父亲回家探望尼日利亚的家人并没有回来时，我的父母已经在一起七年了。
He had come to the United States to go to college.
他来美国是为了上大学。
As soon as he got here, he met my mom, a white lady from Wichita.
他一到这里就遇到了我的妈妈，一位来自威奇托的白人女士。
They got married, had two kids.
他们结婚了，有两个孩子。
And then, two months after he graduated with his doctorate and one month after I was born, he was gone, continents away.
然后，在他获得博士学位两个月后、我出生一个月后，他就离开了，远在大洋彼岸。
And he never saw his wife and kids ever again.
他再也没有见过他的妻子和孩子。
Growing up, I knew a lot of other kids whose dads weren't around, but I had nothing in common with them.
在成长过程中，我认识很多父亲不在身边的孩子，但我和他们没有任何共同点。
Their dads were deadbeats.
他们的父亲都是游手好闲的人。
Mine was a powerful African chief who was going to return any day to save us.
我的领导是一位强大的非洲酋长，他随时都会回来拯救我们。
I knew this because that's what my mom told me all the time.
我知道这一点，因为这是我妈妈一直告诉我的。
Of course, my mom didn't know he wasn't coming back.
当然，我妈妈不知道他不会回来。
So to prepare for his return, she raised us to be Nigerian, or as Nigerian as a sheltered white woman from Kansas could.
因此，为了为他的回归做好准备，她把我们培养成尼日利亚人，或者像来自堪萨斯州的受庇护的白人妇女那样成为尼日利亚人。
Our comfort food was jollof rice, fufu, and egusi soup.
我们的舒适食物是jollof米饭、fufu和egusi汤。
When I got in trouble, my mom would yell, [NIGERIAN], which my older sister and I understood as Nigerian for "Watch out.
当我遇到麻烦时，我妈妈会大喊，[尼日利亚语]，我和姐姐将其理解为尼日利亚语，意思是“小心。”
Mom's pissed." And then mom would say, "Your father would never let you get away with that." She talked about him like he was still our dad, like he was a presence instead of an absence.
妈妈生气了。”然后妈妈会说：“你父亲永远不会让你逃脱惩罚。”她谈论他就像他仍然是我们的父亲一样，就像他存在而不是缺席一样。
My mom always refers to her years with my father as the best time of her life.
我妈妈总是说她和父亲在一起的时光是她一生中最美好的时光。
They lived in a small African immigrant community in Texas.
他们住在德克萨斯州的一个非洲移民小社区。
My mom dove head first into Nigerian life.
我妈妈一头扎进了尼日利亚的生活。
She wore a traditional wrap and prepared feasts with the other women.
她穿着传统的裹布，和其他妇女一起准备盛宴。
My dad was in fact a chief, which is an honorary title.
我父亲实际上是一个酋长，这是一个荣誉头衔。
In practice, it meant my mom and dad were often invited to weddings as the guests of honor.
实际上，这意味着我的妈妈和爸爸经常被邀请作为主宾参加婚礼。
And he'd pull out some crazy jewelry for the occasion and give a toast.
他会为这个场合拿出一些疯狂的珠宝并祝酒。
He was always great at giving toasts.
他总是很擅长祝酒。
She told me my dad had a commanding presence that could make a room go silent.
她告诉我，我父亲有一种威严的气质，可以让房间变得安静。
The way she described it, it was paradise.
用她的话说，那是天堂。
Everyone took care of one another.
每个人都互相照顾。
If you didn't have any food, you could just go to your neighbor's apartment and they would feed you, no questions asked, which sounded great to me when I was a kid because we often didn't have food.
如果你没有任何食物，你可以去邻居的公寓，他们会不问任何问题地喂你，这对我来说听起来很棒，因为我们经常没有食物。
My mom did everything she could-- manual labor, odd jobs.
我妈妈做了她能做的一切——体力劳动、零工。
But it was just so much for her to bear on her own.
但她一个人承受的压力实在是太大了。
At night, she would lock herself in her room and cry.
晚上，她会把自己锁在房间里哭泣。
My sister and I could hear it, but no one talked about it.
我和姐姐都听到了，但没有人谈论这件事。
When our electricity or our phone would get cut off, my mom would say something like, things will be different when your dad comes back, or we won't have to worry about this when we move to Nigeria.
当我们的电力或电话被切断时，我妈妈会说，当你爸爸回来时，情况会有所不同，或者当我们搬到尼日利亚时，我们就不必担心这个了。
I wanted to be Nigerian like my dad.
我想成为像我父亲一样的尼日利亚人。
Anytime I would do a geography report in school, it was always on Nigeria.
每当我在学校做地理报告时，总是关于尼日利亚的。
Until the second grade, everyone I knew, including my family, called me by my middle name, Joe.
直到二年级，我认识的每个人，包括我的家人，都用我的中间名乔来称呼我。
It was the only name I'd ever known.
这是我唯一知道的名字。
When I learned that my actual first name was Ahamefule, a Nigerian name, I immediately made an executive decision that I never wanted anyone to call me Joe ever again.
当我得知我真正的名字是 Ahamefule（尼日利亚名字）时，我立即做出了一个行政决定，我再也不想让任何人叫我乔。
My grandparents thought it was a phase.
我的祖父母认为这是一个阶段。
It wasn't.
事实并非如此。
It went beyond the name.
它超越了名字。
I wanted to look Nigerian.
我想看起来像尼日利亚人。
Unfortunately, I didn't really know what Nigerians looked like and Google Images didn't exist at the time.
不幸的是，我真的不知道尼日利亚人长什么样，而且当时谷歌图片也不存在。
So my school photos are basically a 10-year-old's best guess-- a weird hat, a colorful print shirt, a shark tooth necklace.
所以我的学校照片基本上是 10 岁孩子的最佳猜测——一顶奇怪的帽子、一件彩色印花衬衫、一条鲨鱼牙项链。
Why not?
为什么不呢？
Nigeria's by the ocean, right?
尼日利亚靠海，对吗？
Years passed.
几年过去了。
He never called.
他从来没有打过电话。
He never wrote a single letter.
他从未写过一封信。
My mom started talking about my dad less and less until she didn't really talk about him at all anymore.
我妈妈开始越来越少地谈论我父亲，直到她不再真正谈论他。
Looking back on it now, I'm sure she gave up hope he'd ever return, and it got too embarrassing to pretend he would.
现在回想起来，我确信她已经放弃了他回来的希望，而假装他会回来就太尴尬了。
There was no moment when we decided as a family to face the facts, and she never divorced him.
我们一家人从来没有决定面对事实，她也没有和他离婚。
She never said a negative word about him.
她从来没有说过他的坏话。
In my teenage years, I put away the African hat.
在我十几岁的时候，我就把非洲帽子收起来了。
It felt like I'd been wearing a birthday hat to a party that no one else showed up to.
感觉就像我戴着生日帽去参加一个没有其他人参加的聚会。
Up to this point, I had wholeheartedly embraced my mother's story about my dad.
到目前为止，我全心全意地接受了母亲关于父亲的故事。
But now I started considering alternatives.
但现在我开始考虑替代方案。
My mom's parents never liked my dad.
我妈妈的父母从来都不喜欢我爸爸。
They were convinced that this was purely a green card marriage, an elaborate plot to take advantage of their young and innocent daughter.
他们确信这纯粹是绿卡婚姻，是一场精心策划的阴谋，旨在利用他们年幼无辜的女儿。
My sister, who's just a year older than me, never bought my mom's story about my dad either.
我姐姐只比我大一岁，她也不相信我妈妈讲的关于我爸爸的故事。
She acted like he didn't exist.
她表现得就像他不存在一样。
I tried to do the same.
我也尝试做同样的事情。
And then, when I was 16, my dad sent us a letter.
然后，当我 16 岁的时候，我爸爸给我们写了一封信。
The letter was addressed to my sister Ijeoma and me from the Honorable Chief Dr. Samuel Oluo.
这封信是尊敬的酋长塞缪尔·奥罗博士写给我和我妹妹伊杰玛的。
In it, he expressed how excited he was to finally find us.
在其中，他表达了他终于找到我们的兴奋之情。
We weren't hiding.
我们没有躲藏。
And he included his telephone number in Port Harcourt, Nigeria.
他还附上了他在尼日利亚哈科特港的电话号码。
Our father talked to Ijeoma first.
我们的父亲首先与伊杰玛交谈。
She told him how excited she was to start college in the fall.
她告诉他，她对秋天开始上大学感到多么兴奋。
She was going to study political science, just like he did.
她要像他一样学习政治学。
She told him about her job at the bookstore.
她告诉他她在书店的工作。
They talked for about 20 minutes, and then it was my turn.
他们聊了大约20分钟，然后就轮到我了。
My hands shook as I clutched the large, black, cordless telephone.
当我抓着那部又大又黑的无绳电话时，我的手在颤抖。
Hello, I said.
你好，我说。
"Ahamefule," he shouted, loud and distorted by the terrible connection.
“啊哈弗勒，”他大声喊道，声音因可怕的联系而扭曲。
"It is so great to hear your voice.
“听到你的声音真是太好了。
I have missed you so very much.
我非常非常想念你。
Tell me about yourself.
告诉我关于你自己的事。
What do you want to be when you grow up?"
你长大后想做什么？”
Well, I replied, I'm already doing what I want to do when I grow up.
嗯，我回答说，我已经在做我长大后想做的事情了。
I'm a musician.
我是一名音乐家。
I play the trumpet.
我吹小号。
I'm already starting to get paid and everything.
我已经开始拿到工资和一切了。
The line went silent.
线路陷入沉默。
"No, no. That is not good.
“不，不。这样不好。
I do not approve.
我不同意。
You need to do something more sensible.
你需要做一些更明智的事情。
Musician is not a job.
音乐家不是一份工作。
You can't support a family with musician."
你无法养活一个有音乐家的家庭。”
My eyes welled with tears.
我的眼睛里充满了泪水。
"Can you put Ijeoma back on the phone," he said, sounding resigned.
“你能让伊杰玛重新接电话吗？”他说道，听起来很无奈。
I handed her the telephone, walked into the kitchen, and poured myself a glass of water.
我把电话递给她，走进厨房，给自己倒了一杯水。
I was done.
我已经完成了。
What kind of person did this to their family?
什么样的人对自己的家人做了这样的事？
A bad person, that's what kind.
坏人，就是这样。
I hated him.
我恨他。
He tried to call a couple more times, but I didn't answer.
他又打了几次电话，但我没有接听。
And then he stopped calling.
然后他就不再打电话了。
After this, I started to look at my mom with pity.
听完这件事，我开始用怜悯的目光看着妈妈。
How did she get duped that bad?
她怎么被骗得这么惨？
It's so humiliating.
真是太丢脸了。
And how could she drag me into her delusions like that?
她又怎么能把我拉入她的妄想之中呢？
I wasn't going to let myself be like her anymore.
我不会再让自己像她一样了。
I got closer to my sister.
我离姐姐更近了。
A year later, I moved out of the house.
一年后，我搬出了家。
I was 17.
那年我17岁。
I moved on with my life.
我继续我的生活。
Eight years passed.
八年过去了。
On Tuesday February 21, 2006, I received a phone call from a Nigerian half brother I'd never met informing me that our father had died.
2006 年 2 月 21 日星期二，我接到一个我从未见过的尼日利亚同父异母兄弟打来的电话，通知我我们的父亲去世了。
We only spoke on the phone for a few moments.
我们只在电话里聊了一会儿。
The connection was terrible.
这种联系很糟糕。
I remember that I was wearing a yellow shirt, which seemed like a ridiculous color for the occasion.
我记得我穿着一件黄色衬衫，对于这个场合来说，这种颜色似乎很可笑。
I felt so stupid for crying that it made me cry more.
我觉得自己哭起来太愚蠢了，这让我哭得更厉害。
The only solace I had is that I knew that this was going to be the last time.
我唯一的安慰是我知道这将是最后一次。
It was over.
一切都结束了。
The nail was literally in the coffin, or whatever people in Nigeria are buried in.
钉子实际上是在棺材里，或者在尼日利亚埋葬的任何东西里。
And just like that, I turned the corner from I've never met my father to I will never meet my father.
就这样，我从“从未见过我的父亲”变成了“我永远不会见到我的父亲”。
The story was final.
故事最终定稿了。
It had a beginning, a middle, and now an end.
它有一个开始，一个过程，现在结束了。
He was a father who had abandoned his children forever.
他是一位永远抛弃了孩子的父亲。
I got married this past July.
我去年七月结婚了。
It was a small ceremony at a cabin outside of Seattle.
这是在西雅图郊外的一间小屋里举行的小型仪式。
We worked hard to cull the guest list down to a manageable number.
我们努力将宾客名单精简到可管理的数量。
On the day, there was only one person who showed up uninvited.
当天，只有一个不请自来的人。
He was someone I had never met, my Nigerian half-brother Basil, the one who had called me nine years earlier to tell me about our father's death.
他是我从未见过的人，是我的尼日利亚同父异母兄弟巴兹尔，九年前他给我打电话告诉我父亲去世的消息。
I had no idea he even knew I was getting married, yet there he was in the woods in America, insisting from the moment he arrived that he needed to give a toast.
我不知道他甚至知道我要结婚了，但他在美国的树林里，从他到达的那一刻起就坚持要敬酒。
Because it's a wedding, we have it on video.
因为这是一场婚礼，所以我们用视频记录了它。
I'm glad that I'm here to see this day.
我很高兴能来这里见证这一天。
I'm glad that Aham and Ijeoma have grown to be so beautiful and so intelligent.
我很高兴阿罕姆和伊杰玛变得如此美丽和聪明。
It was like he was speaking to us on behalf of our father.
就像他代表我们的父亲对我们说话一样。
I assure you that the family back home in Africa is so proud of you.
我向你保证，非洲的家人为你感到骄傲。
And they left me a message, which is to tell you that whatever it is you've lost, whatever emotional damages you've suffered, we're going to make sure you get all of it back.
他们给我留下了一条信息，就是告诉你，无论你失去了什么，无论你遭受什么情感伤害，我们都会确保你全部拿回来。
I had no idea where this was going.
我不知道这是怎么回事。
And then, Basil said he wanted to clear something up about my parents' marriage.
然后，巴兹尔说他想澄清一些关于我父母婚姻的事情。
Everyone would know that that marriage was real.
每个人都会知道那段婚姻是真实的。
It was never a green card marriage and it would never be a green card marriage because he has a green card.
这从来都不是绿卡婚姻，也永远不会是绿卡婚姻，因为他有绿卡。
[LAUGHTER] Ahamefule Oluo I can't explain how bizarre this felt to hear my long lost Nigerian brother talking at my wedding about my mother's marriage to our dead father.
[笑声] Ahamefule Oluo 我无法解释当听到我失散多年的尼日利亚兄弟在我的婚礼上谈论我母亲与死去的父亲的婚姻时，我感到多么奇怪。
Nobody quite knew how to react.
没有人完全知道如何反应。
Mostly, people laughed.
大多数时候，人们都在笑。
My mom was standing to my left.
我妈妈站在我左边。
She was bawling.
她嚎啕大哭。
He was saying her marriage was real.
他说她的婚姻是真实的。
It was what she had said all along.
这是她一直以来所说的。
Basil was staying for five weeks, and he was staying at my house, both facts I was unaware of until he got here.
巴兹尔待了五个星期，他住在我家，在他来到这里之前我都不知道这两个事实。
He came with giant bags of gifts from Nigeria-- native instruments, handmade clothing, jewelry, and even antiques from our family's village.
他带来了来自尼日利亚的大袋礼物——本土乐器、手工服装、珠宝，甚至来自我们家村庄的古董。
He was on a heartfelt mission.
他肩负着一项衷心的使命。
His mom had been begging him for years to put the family back together.
多年来，他的母亲一直恳求他让家人重新团聚。
And more than anything, he wanted us to get to know each other.
最重要的是，他希望我们互相了解。
He told me that he wanted to go everywhere that I went.
他告诉我，我去过的地方他都想去。
He came with me when I ran errands.
当我办事时他陪我一起去。
He even came to my business meetings.
他甚至来参加我的商务会议。
I make my living as a musician, and while he was here, I was playing trumpet in a play.
我以音乐家为生，当他在这里时，我正在戏剧中吹小号。
Basil went to the play three nights in a row.
巴兹尔连续三个晚上去看戏。
He said he loved it.
他说他喜欢它。
He said my dad would have loved it, too.
他说我爸爸也会喜欢它。
We talked for hours every day, a lot about our dad.
我们每天都会聊几个小时，聊很多关于我们父亲的事情。
As far as I knew, Ijeoma and I had been basically forgotten decades ago, tossed aside and never spoken about again.
据我所知，几十年前，伊杰玛和我基本上就被遗忘了，被扔到一边，再也没有被提起过。
But Basil still says that wasn't true.
但巴兹尔仍然说那不是真的。
According to Basil, my father had baby pictures of me and Ijeoma hanging in his house, and not just baby pictures.
据巴兹尔说，我父亲在他的房子里挂着我和伊杰玛的婴儿照片，而不仅仅是婴儿照片。
Later, he had photos of me as an adult with my two daughters that he printed from MySpace.
后来，他从 MySpace 打印了我成年后和两个女儿的照片。
I didn't even know that he knew he had grandkids in America.
我什至不知道他知道他在美国有孙子。
He told everyone in Nigeria about us.
他向尼日利亚的每个人介绍了我们。
He told them my mom was an amazing woman and he couldn't wait for everyone to meet her.
他告诉他们我妈妈是一位了不起的女人，他迫不及待地想让大家见到她。
He even had property set aside to build a house for us.
他甚至还留出财产给我们盖房子。
There was a whole plan.
有一个完整的计划。
He would get elected to political office, start making money, and then send for us.
他会当选政治职务，开始赚钱，然后派人来找我们。
And at first, his plan was working.
起初，他的计划奏效了。
My father was elected to state office right after he got back to Nigeria, but then was deposed in a military coup after only months.
我父亲回到尼日利亚后立即当选为国家公职人员，但仅几个月后就在军事政变中被废黜。
Basil said he had bad luck his entire career.
巴兹尔说他的整个职业生涯都很糟糕。
He was always struggling financially.
他总是在经济上陷入困境。
Basil was saying our dad really wanted to bring us to Nigeria.
巴兹尔说我们爸爸真的很想带我们去尼日利亚。
I asked him if I could record us talking about this just-- I don't know-- to get it on the record.
我问他是否可以将我们谈论的事情录下来——我不知道——以便记录下来。
When we sat down, he told me that people in Nigeria knew our dad abandoned us, and it was the source of his biggest shame.
当我们坐下来时，他告诉我，尼日利亚人知道我们的父亲抛弃了我们，这是他最大的耻辱的根源。
He always planned to fix it.
他一直计划修复它。
I think he kept thinking that there will be a time when everything would be fine, and then everyone will be together again.
我想他一直在想，总有一天一切都会好起来，然后大家又会在一起。
Unfortunately, it's not working.
不幸的是，它不起作用。
Basil is only 11 months younger than me.
巴兹尔只比我小11个月。
And if you remember that I was one month old when my father left, you already know the first thing he did when he got back to Nigeria.
如果你还记得我父亲离开时我才一个月大，你就已经知道他回到尼日利亚后做的第一件事了。
Basil told me that my dad had 12 kids, a few of them older than me and my sister, which means he deserted their family to start ours.
巴兹尔告诉我，我父亲有 12 个孩子，其中一些比我和我姐姐大，这意味着他抛弃了他们的家庭来建立我们的家庭。
My father didn't have a great relationship with most of his children, but Basil said it was different.
我父亲和他的大多数孩子的关系都不好，但巴兹尔说情况有所不同。
The culture is different.
文化不同。
Polygamy is normal, and children don't have the same expectations of their fathers.
一夫多妻制很正常，孩子们不会像父亲那样抱有同样的期望。
You don't blame him so much.
你不用这么责备他。
The African society doesn't actually demand as much fatherhood as the Western culture does demand.
非洲社会实际上并不像西方文化那样要求那么多的父亲身份。
You could have kids and be caring in the African sense, but in the Western sense be absolutely nowhere.
你可以生孩子并在非洲意义上照顾孩子，但在西方意义上绝对无处可去。
Still, Basil was deeply hurt that our father wasn't around for him.
尽管如此，巴兹尔仍因父亲不在身边而深受伤害。
He refused to call him dad.
他拒绝叫他爸爸。
He calls him Sam.
他叫他萨姆。
But like me, Basil was obsessed with him growing up.
但和我一样，巴兹尔从小就对他着迷。
Even though he wasn't a great dad, Basil says he was a really great guy.
尽管他不是一个伟大的父亲，巴兹尔说他是一个非常伟大的人。
My dad went back to his village to visit his mom every single weekend, even in terrible weather.
我爸爸每个周末都会回村子看望妈妈，即使天气很糟糕。
Apparently, he helped a lot of young people get into college.
显然，他帮助了很多年轻人进入大学。
He cared about his community.
他关心他的社区。
He was genuinely dedicated, an incorruptible politician in the most corrupt country on earth.
他是一个真正奉献的人，是地球上最腐败的国家里一位廉洁的政治家。
It was really difficult for me listening to my brother talk about all the great things our father did for other people.
对我来说，听我的兄弟谈论我们的父亲为其他人所做的所有伟大的事情真的很困难。
Why couldn't he have been dedicated to us?
他为什么不能为我们奉献呢？
I swung back and forth between sympathy and anger.
我在同情和愤怒之间来回摇摆。
I couldn't stop thinking about him.
我无法停止想他。
When I woke up, when I went to bed, when I was on stage playing the trumpet, he was still on my mind.
当我醒来时，当我上床睡觉时，当我在舞台上吹小号时，他仍然在我的脑海里。
Were my mom and Basil right?
我妈妈和巴兹尔说得对吗？
Was he this fantastic guy?
他是一个很棒的人吗？
Or was he a deadbeat who didn't really care about his own kids?
或者他是一个懒惰的人，并不真正关心自己的孩子？
I decided to get everyone together-- my brother, my mom, and my sister Ijeoma.
我决定把所有人都聚集在一起——我的兄弟、我的妈妈和我的妹妹伊杰玛。
We met at my mom's one bedroom apartment.
我们在我妈妈的一间卧室公寓见面。
She made Nigerian shrimp and rice, and then we sat down in a circle in the living room.
她做了尼日利亚虾和米饭，然后我们在客厅围坐成一圈。
So anyway.
所以无论如何。
Ahamefule Oluo Thank you, everyone, for coming here.
Ahamefule Oluo 谢谢大家来到这里。
Yes.
是的。
Ahamefule Oluo My mom said you couldn't imagine what this meant to her.
Ahamefule Oluo 我妈妈说你无法想象这对她意味着什么。
She and Basil had been talking, and she was so happy to hear that she was right all those years, that our dad had missed us.
她和巴兹尔一直在说话，她很高兴听到这些年来她是对的，我们的父亲很想念我们。
Well, I made up my own little story.
好吧，我自己编了个小故事。
And my own story was actually probably pretty close to actually what it was.
我自己的故事实际上可能非常接近实际情况。
And that was that he had so many responsibilities back home.
那就是他在家里有很多责任。
And that was my belief.
这就是我的信念。
And that he knew I'd be fine with my family here and that his family back home wouldn't be.
他知道我会和我的家人在这里相处得很好，而他在家乡的家人则不会。
And that's what I had in my head.
这就是我的想法。
But in a lot of ways, we weren't fine, though.
但在很多方面，我们做得并不好。
No, I know.
不，我知道。
Ahamefule Oluo But I mean, in terms of--
Ahamefule Oluo 但我的意思是，就——
But, I mean, that's what he thought I thought.
但是，我的意思是，他以为我就是这么想的。
You know, I thought he thought that.
你知道，我以为他是这么想的。
You thought that he thought that you were--
你以为他以为你是——
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
And back then, my mom and dad were making really good money.
那时，我的父母赚了很多钱。
And I thought maybe he thought that they would take care of us and not know that we were desperately poor five different ways.
我想也许他认为他们会照顾我们，却不知道我们在五种方面都极度贫穷。
I remember when we were so poor, I remember thinking, I wonder if my dad knows how poor we are?
我记得当我们很穷的时候，我记得我在想，我想知道我爸爸是否知道我们有多穷？
Yeah.
是的。
I've thought that, too.
我也这么想过。
Ahamefule Oluo And if that would make any difference.
Ahamefule Oluo 如果这会有什么不同的话。
Well, who knows, because everyone back home, too, believes that you guys are doing fine.
好吧，谁知道呢，因为家里的每个人也都相信你们做得很好。
Yeah.
是的。
Ahamefule Oluo He says everyone back home believes you're doing fine.
Ahamefule Oluo 他说家里的每个人都相信你做得很好。
Basil says that if our dad had known, that would have made a difference, just as my mom always believed it would.
巴兹尔说，如果我们的父亲知道的话，情况就会有所不同，就像我妈妈一直相信的那样。
He would have figured out a way to help.
他一定会想出一个办法来帮忙的。
And if he was alive today, he would have wanted to come to my wedding to visit us.
如果他今天还活着，他一定会想来参加我的婚礼并拜访我们。
He would have wanted to come.
他本来想来的。
Ijeoma Oluo Well, I'm glad that you came instead of him.
Ijeoma Oluo 嗯，我很高兴你代替他来了。
That's my sister Ijeoma.
那是我的妹妹伊杰玛。
She says our dad visiting may have helped me and my mom, but not her.
她说我们父亲的来访可能对我和我妈妈有帮助，但对她没有帮助。
But you being here means a lot.
但你在这里意义重大。
You aren't our dad and you weren't his mistakes.
你不是我们的父亲，你也不是他的错误。
You aren't any of that.
你不是那样的人。
You're just our brother, so I'm glad that you came.
你只是我们的兄弟，所以我很高兴你能来。
Sam would have made you think otherwise.
萨姆会让你有不同的想法。
Basil says Sam, our dad, would have made you think otherwise.
巴兹尔说山姆，我们的父亲，会让你有不同的想法。
You know, I've talked to him.
你知道，我已经和他谈过了。
Basil He's not about-- I know that man, you know.
巴兹尔：他不是——我认识那个人，你知道。
He's very forceful.
他非常有力量。
He's very forceful.
他非常有力量。
Basically, he would have won you over.
基本上，他会赢得你的支持。
My mom is nodding enthusiastically.
我妈妈热情地点头。
Yeah.
是的。
Basil He knows how to get at things.
巴兹尔 他知道如何处理事情。
Don't you see him in her?
你在她身上没看到他吗？
Basil That's-- you know, you just say all of this--
巴兹尔 那是——你知道，你刚刚说了所有这些——
She doesn't know it.
她不知道。
Basil You just say all of this because he's not here.
巴兹尔：你之所以这么说是因为他不在这里。
If he had come, no. My goodness.
如果他来了，也不会。天哪。
I think the thing, though, Basil, I don't think you understand what it's like watching the people you love most in the world go through so much pain because of someone who's not here.
但我认为，巴兹尔，我认为你不明白看着世界上你最爱的人因为一个不存在的人而经历如此多的痛苦是什么感觉。
And that was my only wound.
那是我唯一的伤口。
I never felt like I wish I had a dad, never.
我从来没有想过我希望有一个爸爸，从来没有。
I don't think I ever thought that to myself.
我想我自己从来没有这么想过。
I never thought, I wish I had a dad.
我从来没有想过，我希望我有一个爸爸。
What I remember thinking was, I wish my mom wasn't so heartbroken all the time and crying all the time, and I wish that she was happy and I wish she saw how--
我记得当时的想法是，我希望我妈妈不要总是那么心碎，总是哭泣，我希望她幸福，我希望她看到如何——
Yeah, but that's because you didn't know him.
是的，但那是因为你不认识他。
No, but mom, no-- Mrs. Oluo Wait, wait, wait.
不，但是妈妈，不——奥洛夫人等等，等等，等等。
Let me just say what I want to say, and that is put yourself back in the '70s in Denton, Texas.
让我说出我想说的话，那就是让你回到 70 年代的德克萨斯州丹顿。
This is a story my mom loves to tell about my dad, how he won over everyone in their small white town with his charm, how he got them all to celebrate Nigerian Independence Day.
这是我妈妈喜欢讲的关于我父亲的故事，他如何用自己的魅力赢得了白色小镇上的每个人，如何让他们所有人庆祝尼日利亚独立日。
Everybody was just, you know, amazed at what he created.
你知道，每个人都对他创造的东西感到惊讶。
He had that whole entire town.
他拥有整个城镇。
I don't know what that has to do with what I was talking about.
我不知道这和我说的有什么关系。
He was an amazing man.
他是一个了不起的人。
Ijeoma Oluo He was an amazing man who left his kids and sent two letters in 30 years.
Ijeoma Oluo 他是一位了不起的人，他离开了自己的孩子，并在 30 年内写了两封信。
But what-- I know.
但什么——我知道。
And that's your truth.
这就是你的真相。
But, I mean, that's why I grieved.
但是，我的意思是，这就是我悲伤的原因。
That's why--
这就是为什么——
Yeah, I know.
是的，我知道。
But I feel like this is-- maybe this is why I'm not good at these sorts of conversations in groups because I feel like everybody tries to make their personal reality everyone else's reality.
但我觉得这可能就是为什么我不擅长在团体中进行此类对话的原因，因为我觉得每个人都试图让自己的个人现实成为其他人的现实。
And for me--
而对于我来说——
No, I don't.
不，我不。
Ijeoma Oluo --it doesn't mean anything to me what type of person he is because he had no part in raising me, no part at all of anything.
Ijeoma Oluo——他是什么样的人对我来说没有任何意义，因为他没有参与抚养我，没有参与任何事情。
He was a detriment to my upbringing.
他对我的成长有害。
And I don't want anyone to push him on me.
我不想让任何人把他推到我身上。
Yeah, no. Ijeoma Oluo I don't want to think anything about him because he chose not to be here.
是的，不。 Ijeoma Oluo 我不想去想他的任何事情，因为他选择不在这里。
You're my brother because you're here and you're being my brother.
你是我的兄弟，因为你在这里并且你就是我的兄弟。
You're my brother.
你是我兄弟。
It's hard to argue with that.
对此很难反驳。
I feel the same.
我也有同感。
What use is an amazing man that didn't want you?
一个了不起的男人不想要你有什么用？
Basil listens carefully to Ijeoma.
巴兹尔仔细地听伊杰玛讲话。
Everyone, you know, has the right to feel--
你知道，每个人都有权感受——
They do.
他们确实这么做了。
Basil --as they feel right now.
巴兹尔——正如他们现在的感受。
But I tell you, if Sam was here today, you probably would have been mad at him for one week, two weeks, or three weeks.
但我告诉你，如果萨姆今天在这里，你可能会生他一周、两周或三周的气。
He would have found his way into your heart.
他会找到进入你心里的方式。
That's the truth.
这是事实。
That's his truth, and my mom's too, but not Ijeoma's.
这是他的实话，我妈妈也是，但伊杰玛不是。
And I'm as confused as ever.
我和以前一样困惑。
The only thing that's very clear to me now is I'm not going to get my answers from them.
现在我唯一清楚的是我不会从他们那里得到答案。
A few days after the conversation, I was driving out to a portrait studio in the suburbs.
谈话几天后，我开车去郊区的一家肖像工作室。
My mom had been saving a coupon for half off a family portrait, and she wanted to use it to get a picture with all of us wearing the traditional clothing Basil brought from Nigeria.
我妈妈一直在攒一张全家福半价优惠券，她想用它来和我们所有人穿着巴兹尔从尼日利亚带来的传统服装合影。
Everyone was there-- my mom, my siblings, Ijeoma's two sons, my two daughters.
每个人都在那里——我的妈妈、我的兄弟姐妹、伊杰玛的两个儿子、我的两个女儿。
It was the day before Basil's plane back to Nigeria.
那是巴兹尔乘飞机返回尼日利亚的前一天。
The whole family took turns changing in the bathroom, safety pinning what wouldn't fit.
全家人轮流在浴室换衣服，把不合身的衣服用安全钉固定住。
My daughters and my nephews were playing around in the bright, colorful clothes of their ancestors, running and laughing, hitting each other on the head with ceremonial fly whisks.
我的女儿们和我的侄子们穿着她们祖先的鲜艳多彩的衣服，一边跑一边笑，互相用拂蝇器击打对方的头。
I was sitting in the corner, watching it all, still thinking about my dad.
我坐在角落里，看着这一切，仍然想着我的父亲。
Hearing so much about him from Basil, what he was like as a real person, the ups and downs of his life, all the weekends he went back to his village, every young person he helped out.
从巴兹尔那里听到了很多关于他的事情，他作为一个真实的人是什么样的，他生活中的起起落落，他回到村庄的所有周末，他帮助过的每一个年轻人。
He had so long to fix things with us but he didn't.
他花了很长时间来和我们解决问题，但他没有。
Every day was a new opportunity and he passed them all by until there were none left.
每一天都是一个新的机会，他却一一错过，直到没有机会为止。
I looked around me at my family, and I felt something I had never felt before.
我环顾四周，看看我的家人，我感受到了以前从未有过的感觉。
I felt pity for him.
我为他感到可怜。
He never learned to be a father.
他从来没有学会如何成为一名父亲。
He never got what I have now.
他从来没有得到过我现在拥有的东西。
I can't imagine never seeing my kids again.
我无法想象再也见不到我的孩子们。
It would ruin my life.
这会毁了我的生活。
All he had were photos printed from the internet.
他拥有的只是从互联网上打印的照片。
I get the photos and the real family.
我得到了照片和真实的家庭。
[MUSIC - "FILL THE VOID" BY THE NOTHING AND THE GOLDENHORN]
[音乐-“虚无”和“金号角”的“填补空白”]
Ira Glass Ahamefule Oluo is a musician and writer in Seattle.
Ira Glass Ahamefule Oluo 是西雅图的一位音乐家和作家。
He's written a musical about his dad called Now I'm Fine.
他写了一部关于他父亲的音乐剧，名为《现在我很好》。
It's going to be at Under the Radar Festival at the Public Theater in New York this coming January.
该剧将于今年一月在纽约公共剧院举行的“Under the Radar Festival”音乐节上演。
Coming up, what should Volkswagen's new slogan be?
接下来，大众汽车的新口号应该是什么？
OK, I have a suggestion.
好的，我有一个建议。
My suggestion, "never again." And every ad executive we ran that idea by before this week's show hated that idea.
我的建议是“再也不会了”。在本周的节目之前，我们提出这个想法的每一位广告主管都讨厌这个想法。
What they suggested instead in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，他们在芝加哥公共广播电台的一分钟内提出了建议。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's program, "Put a Bow on It." Each of our acts today is about a group of people who are trying to figure out not just the facts of a situation, but what story to tell-- to tell themselves, to tell others-- about it.
今天的节目是“鞠躬”。我们今天的每一次行动都是关于一群人，他们不仅试图弄清楚某个情况的事实，而且还试图弄清楚该讲什么故事——告诉自己，告诉别人——关于这个情况。
We've arrived at Act Three of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第三幕了。
Act three, drivers wanted-- really, really wanted.
第三幕，司机想要——真的，真的想要。
So this thing occurred to all of us here when we were putting together today's radio show.
所以当我们准备今天的广播节目时，我们所有人都想到了这件事。
You remember back in Act One, Zoe Chace talked to that guy Brad Haley, who was in charge of marketing in an old job for Jack in the Box back when four children died from E.
你还记得在第一幕中，佐伊·切斯（Zoe Chace）与布拉德·哈利（Brad Haley）交谈过，当时他在《盒子里的杰克》（Jack in the Box）的一份旧工作中负责营销，当时四个孩子死于大肠杆菌病。
coli.
大肠杆菌。
People stopped going to Jack in the Box and they had to create an ad campaign to turn things around, get the public's trust back.
人们不再去找“盒子里的杰克”，他们不得不发起一场广告活动来扭转局面，重新赢得公众的信任。
Well, here around our office for weeks now, Zoe has been obsessed with another company, Volkswagen, that of course has been in the middle of a giant PR crisis ever since the revelation that they had been lying to consumers and cheating emission standards for years.
好吧，几周来，佐伊一直在我们办公室周围迷恋另一家公司——大众汽车，自从他们多年来一直向消费者撒谎并欺骗排放标准的消息曝光以来，这家公司一直处于巨大的公关危机之中。
And Zoe and all of us here when we heard about the Jack in the Box campaign when she was researching that story, we wondered, what kind of ad could VW do?
当佐伊和我们所有人在研究这个故事时听说“盒子里的杰克”活动时，我们想知道大众可以做什么样的广告？
What could VW possibly say right now to make us trust them again?
大众现在能说什么才能让我们再次信任他们呢？
And so Zoe called that guy, Brad Haley, whose marketing brought back Jack in the Box from the edge to see what kind of advice he would give to VW.
于是佐伊打电话给布拉德·哈利（Brad Haley），他的营销把盒子里的杰克从边缘带了回来，看看他会给大众提供什么样的建议。
And she called his peers, other advertising people at other agencies, to find out what kind of ads they would make if VW were their client.
她还给他的同事、其他机构的其他广告人员打电话，询问如果大众是他们的客户，他们会制作什么样的广告。
Several of them actually went to the trouble to make ads for us, which Zoe has for you now.
他们中的一些人实际上不辞辛劳地为我们制作广告，佐伊现在为您提供了这些广告。
Full disclosure before we start, Volkswagen was once an underwriter, a sponsor, here on our program years ago.
在我们开始之前全面披露，大众汽车几年前曾是我们计划的承销商、赞助商。
Anyway, here's Zoe again.
无论如何，佐伊又来了。
The first thing Brad Haley told me when I got him on the phone is that ads can only do so much.
当布拉德·黑利（Brad Haley）打电话时告诉我的第一件事是，广告的作用有限。
He says to change how people feel about your company, to change your image, that takes time.
他说，要改变人们对你公司的看法，改变你的形象，这需要时间。
They didn't have that luxury back then.
那时的他们还没有这样的奢侈。
In our experience at Jack in the Box, I think we didn't have a lot of time because sales had been so horrifically damaged that I think the brand's survival was at stake.
根据我们在 Jack in the Box 的经验，我认为我们没有太多时间，因为销售受到如此严重的损害，我认为该品牌的生存受到威胁。
So at first, they just cut prices to get people to come into their stores, no matter how afraid people were of being poisoned.
所以一开始，他们只是降价来吸引人们进入他们的商店，不管人们多么害怕中毒。
We ran actually very aggressive deals to get people to come back.
我们实际上进行了非常激进的交易来吸引人们回来。
There was a deal called the Big Deal, I think it was.
我认为有一项叫做“大交易”的交易。
I remember it was a small hamburger, taco, fry, and a drink for $0.99.
我记得是一个小汉堡、炸玉米饼、炸薯条和一杯饮料，售价 0.99 美元。
People still tell me that they remember getting that deal when they were in college when they were poor students.
人们仍然告诉我，他们记得在大学时获得这笔交易，当时他们还是贫困学生。
And that seemed to do a lot of the work.
这似乎做了很多工作。
That got a lot of people back in the restaurant.
这让很多人回到餐厅。
And then to change people's feelings about Jack in the Box, they did create an ad campaign, a famously successful one.
然后，为了改变人们对“盒子里的杰克”的看法，他们确实制作了一场广告活动，这是一场非常成功的活动。
The guy who came up with the idea for the ads and wrote them is Rick Sittig.
提出广告创意并撰写广告的人是 Rick Sittig。
He owns the ad agency Secret Weapon Marketing.
他拥有广告公司 Secret Weapon Marketing。
He also came up with the Energizer bunny.
他还想出了Energizer兔子。
So here's how he diagnoses the situation for Volkswagen right now.
以下是他对大众汽车目前状况的诊断。
They're screwed because they have abused their customers' trust.
他们被搞砸了，因为他们滥用了客户的信任。
And it takes a brand decades to win people over.
一个品牌需要几十年的时间才能赢得人们的青睐。
There's no empathy out there for them.
对他们没有同理心。
Back when Jack in the Box was in a similar situation, here's what Rick did.
当《盒子里的杰克》遇到类似的情况时，瑞克就是这么做的。
He says he knew people were looking for accountability.
他说他知道人们正在寻求问责制。
They want someone to pay for the mistake, and some head needs to roll.
他们希望有人为错误付出代价，而有些人需要清醒过来。
And it can either be real or it can be symbolic.
它可以是真实的，也可以是象征性的。
So in the first spot in this ad campaign, a big headed clown in a business suit walks into the headquarters of Jack in the Box.
因此，在这次广告活动的第一个镜头中，一个穿着西装的大头小丑走进了 Jack in the Box 的总部。
He says he's the original founder of the company who had been forced out a long time ago.
他说他是公司最初的创始人，很早以前就被赶出了公司。
Hello.
你好。
I'm Jack, founder of Jack in the Box.
我是杰克，Jack in the Box 的创始人。
Perhaps you remember when I was fired.
也许你还记得我被解雇的时候。
Today, I'm back, and ready to make Jack in the Box better than ever.
今天，我回来了，并准备好让《盒子里的杰克》比以往任何时候都更好。
Then, Jack explodes the boardroom, a room full of the old Jack in the Box management.
然后，杰克炸毁了董事会，房间里挤满了老杰克在盒子里的管理层。
Never does the clown say, sorry for all the E.
小丑从来没有说过，对所有的E感到抱歉。
coli that happened.
发生的大肠杆菌。
He just says he's in control now and moves on-- not that this really happened in the real world.
他只是说他现在掌控一切并继续前进——这并不是说这真的发生在现实世界中。
Jack in the Box did not fire their entire management team.
盒子里的杰克并没有解雇他们的整个管理团队。
They did make some big changes, like they totally revamped their food safety system.
他们确实做出了一些重大改变，比如彻底改造了食品安全体系。
So that was happening in the real world.
这就是现实世界中发生的事情。
And then symbolically, in the advertising world, they were under new management.
然后，象征性的是，在广告界，他们接受了新的管理。
And the new guy with the big head came in.
这时，新来的大头家伙进来了。
And he was funny and charming.
他很有趣，很有魅力。
And everybody sort of forgot about the tragedy, and we were all moving on.
每个人都忘记了这场悲剧，我们都在继续前进。
My sources tell me you've been calling Jack in the Box "Junk in the Box."
我的消息来源告诉我，你一直称“盒子里的杰克”为“盒子里的垃圾”。
So?
所以？
Jack I take these things personally, Brad.
杰克，我认为这些事情都是针对我个人的，布拉德。
Get lost.
迷路。
Jack Sure.
杰克当然。
Just try my food, apologize, and I'll go.
尝尝我的食物，道歉，然后我就走。
I said beat it, clown.
我说打败它，小丑。
Jack Listen, punk.
杰克 听着，朋克。
I've spent millions of dollars improving my kitchens to make our best burgers ever.
我花了数百万美元改进我的厨房，以制作我们有史以来最好的汉堡。
You're psycho!
你神经病啊！
Zoe Chace Note that the customer apologizes to the company, not the other way around.
Zoe Chace 请注意，是客户向公司道歉，而不是相反。
That is how diabolical these ads are.
这些广告就是这么邪恶。
And it worked.
它奏效了。
The number of Jack in the Box restaurants almost doubled in the years that this campaign was running.
在该活动开展期间，Jack in the Box 餐厅的数量几乎翻了一番。
So Volkswagen, is there an advertising campaign that could maybe help them out?
那么大众汽车是否有广告活动可以帮助他们摆脱困境？
I only have one idea, and it's always blowing up people in a boardroom.
我只有一个想法，但它总是会在董事会里激怒人们。
Rick actually doesn't want to give a new campaign to Volkswagen because Honda car dealers are a client of his, so they're a competitor.
里克实际上不想向大众汽车发起新的营销活动，因为本田汽车经销商是他的客户，所以他们是竞争对手。
But three other ad agencies were up for making the next ad for Volkswagen.
但另外三个广告公司正准备为大众汽车制作下一个广告。
And calling around, I learned that for ad agencies, this is personal in a way I had no idea about.
四处打电话后，我了解到，对于广告公司来说，这是一种我不知道的个人行为。
The reason they care so much is this magazine ad from 1959.
他们如此关心的原因是这则 1959 年的杂志广告。
Here comes this little kind of ugly car, and when a culture is screaming think big, everything was about bigger and more.
这种丑陋的小汽车问世了，当一种文化呼喊着“大局观”时，一切都意味着更大、更多。
And it takes this ad, puts the car really small in the corner surrounded by an immense amount of white space, and just says Think Small.
它采用了这则广告，将汽车非常小地放在角落里，周围有大量的空白，然后只说“Think Small”。
Kirk Souder is co-founder of creative agency Enso.
Kirk Souder 是创意机构 Enso 的联合创始人。
He studied this ad in school and the lemon ad that came after.
他在学校研究了这个广告以及随后出现的柠檬广告。
Everybody does.
每个人都这样做。
Kirk's agency specializes in doing campaigns that make companies look like they care about the world.
柯克的机构专门从事让公司看起来关心世界的活动。
When a Fortune 500 company sponsors an educational program or throws its weight behind a small business, these guys might be responsible.
当财富 500 强公司赞助教育计划或大力支持小型企业时，这些人可能要负责。
Kirk is a sincere guy-- California crunchy optimistic about the world.
柯克是一个真诚的人——加州对世界充满乐观态度。
He says it's not enough for VW to just apologize.
他说大众汽车仅仅道歉是不够的。
They've got to use their folly to actively make the world better.
他们必须利用自己的愚蠢积极地让世界变得更美好。
Even before that, Kirk suggests opening up VW to some kind of third party.
甚至在此之前，柯克就建议向某种第三方开放大众汽车。
You know, an investigative documentarian group, like a Frontline or an Alex Gibney who can come in with the charge of discovering what happens in a company that actually leads to this type of gross infraction.
你知道，一个调查纪录片团体，比如前线或亚历克斯·吉布尼，他们可以负责发现公司中发生的事情实际上导致了这种类型的严重违规行为。
Kirk went ahead and made a promo for this imaginary documentary.
柯克继续为这部虚构的纪录片制作了宣传片。
A new series from Alex Gibney, the director of The Smartest Guys in the Room , Coming Clean , Inside Volkswagen.
亚历克斯·吉布尼 (Alex Gibney) 执导的新系列，他是《房间里最聪明的人》、《干净整洁》、《大众汽车内部》的导演。
My most urgent task is to win back trust.
我最紧迫的任务是重新赢得信任。
This is the story of one of the largest frauds in history, the struggle of an iconic auto company to reinvent itself.
这是历史上最大的欺诈案之一的故事，一家标志性汽车公司重塑自我的斗争。
In today's advertising world, you might call this sponsored content, journalism style reckoning funded by Volkswagen.
在当今的广告界，您可以将这种赞助内容称为大众汽车资助的新闻风格清算。
With unprecedented and unlimited access from Volkswagen, we get to the bottom of what happened to learn from what went wrong so it will never happen again, and to create new standards for all business.
借助大众汽车前所未有的、无限制的访问权限，我们可以追根溯源，从错误中吸取教训，避免类似情况再次发生，并为所有企业制定新标准。
Coming Clean, Inside Volkswagen.
大众汽车内部干净整洁。
Next, we went to the ad agency M&C Saatchi, Maria Smith and James Bray.
接下来，我们去了广告公司 M&C Saatchi、Maria Smith 和 James Bray。
Saatchi works with all sorts of brands you've heard of-- Lexus, HBO.
Saatchi 与您听说过的各种品牌都有合作——雷克萨斯、HBO。
But Maria and James in particular focus on companies that are like underdogs in the market-- Yahoo, Uggs for men.
但玛丽亚和詹姆斯特别关注那些在市场上处于劣势的公司——雅虎、男士 Uggs。
And like other ad people I talked to, they're like, aw, Volkswagen.
就像我采访过的其他广告人员一样，他们就像，哦，大众汽车。
Da, da, da.
达，达，达。
Do you remember that?
你还记得吗？
Just really nice little slices of life.
只是生活中非常美好的小片段。
Their advice to Volkswagen is also pretty somber.
他们给大众汽车的建议也相当悲观。
Just shut up.
闭嘴吧。
Just be quiet.
安静点。
Stop making excuses.
别再找借口了。
And just start listening to the conversations that are happening out there.
并开始聆听那里正在发生的对话。
Volkswagen can't speak, Saatchi says.
萨奇说，大众汽车不会说话。
No one would believe them anyway.
无论如何，没有人会相信他们。
Maria and James think you've got to crowd source the fix.
玛丽亚和詹姆斯认为你必须众包修复。
Build a website.
建立一个网站。
Let people vote on how VW can atone for their sins.
让人们投票决定大众汽车如何弥补他们的罪过。
For instance, plant 100,000 trees, or fund research to fix the ozone.
例如，种植 100,000 棵树，或资助修复臭氧层的研究。
Imagine if a company like Volkswagen let you decide its fate, not lawyers or legislators, not politicians or lobbyists.
想象一下，如果像大众汽车这样的公司让你决定它的命运，而不是律师或立法者，而不是政客或游说者。
You, drivers and passengers, environmentalists, mothers, fans, skeptics, anyone who's listening to this right now, everyone who feels betrayed.
你们，司机和乘客，环保主义者，母亲，粉丝，怀疑论者，任何现在正在听这个的人，每个感觉被背叛的人。
Advertising has changed, these guys say.
这些人说，广告已经改变了。
Today, it basically means jumping into what's already happening in social media and being part of that conversation, whatever it is.
如今，它基本上意味着跳入社交媒体中已经发生的事情并成为对话的一部分，无论是什么。
You'll hear this a lot, but brands are no longer what brands say they are.
你会经常听到这样的说法，但品牌不再是品牌所说的那样。
Whatever those people are out there saying about your brand is what you are.
无论那些人如何评价你的品牌，你就是什么。
So this idea was to actually embrace that.
所以这个想法实际上是拥抱这一点。
I've got to say, like, the internet is so scary.
我不得不说，互联网是如此可怕。
People could be so mean to them.
人们可能对他们如此刻薄。
Do you think that you might be, like, throwing this company to the wolves?
你是否认为你可能会把这家公司扔进狼群？
Yes.
是的。
Did they deserve to be?
他们值得吗？
Yes.
是的。
For a company that's willing to be thrown to the wolves like that, suddenly we all find them approachable again.
对于一家愿意像这样被扔进狼群的公司，突然间我们都发现他们又变得平易近人了。
So you think even watching them get beat up--
所以你认为即使看着他们被殴打——
I don't think our intention is to get them beat up.
我不认为我们的目的是要殴打他们。
I think it'll be smarter than that.
我认为它会比那更聪明。
I think the way we can filter suggestions out, we can make sure of that.
我认为我们可以通过过滤建议的方式来确保这一点。
But we also don't want to sugarcoat it, you know?
但我们也不想粉饰它，你知道吗？
It's what you'd do if you really wanted to make things better.
如果你真的想让事情变得更好，这就是你会做的事情。
That's why we're doing it.
这就是我们这样做的原因。
We want to make Volkswagen better.
我们想让大众汽车变得更好。
So make your voice heard at makeitbettervw.com.
因此，请在 makeitbettervw.com 上表达您的声音。
You've seen us at our worst.
你见过我们最糟糕的时候。
Now tell us with your vote how we can live up to our best.
现在请用您的投票告诉我们我们如何才能做到最好。
You vote.
你投票。
We'll listen.
我们会听的。
All the ad agencies I talked to said that in order to get credibility back, Volkswagen first has to make something that is not a car, like a documentary, a code of ethics, or a website, some sort of grand gesture, like this idea from our last ad guy, Rich Silverstein from Goodby, Silverstein, and Partners, the agency who made Got Milk.
我采访过的所有广告公司都表示，为了恢复信誉，大众汽车首先必须制作一些不是汽车的东西，比如一部纪录片、一份道德准则或一个网站，某种宏伟的姿态，就像我们上一位广告人员、来自 Goodby、Silverstein 和 Partners 的里奇·西尔弗斯坦 (Rich Silverstein) 提出的这个想法，该公司生产了 Got Milk。
People come to advertising agencies when they're desperate.
人们在绝望的时候会求助于广告公司。
They don't have an answer.
他们没有答案。
So why don't you coat it with some honey?
那么为什么不涂上一些蜂蜜呢？
And you just tried to think of the most amount of honey you possibly could.
你只是试着想出你能吃到的最多的蜂蜜量。
I wanted to pour that honey all over that diesel engine.
我想把蜂蜜倒在柴油发动机上。
Here's the honey.
这是蜂蜜。
Move the VW headquarters to Detroit, the bleeding heart of the American auto industry.
将大众总部迁至美国汽车工业的心脏底特律。
Then run an ad that's big and splashy and unapologetically American.
然后投放一个大而引人注目且毫无歉意的美国广告。
The entire cast of Hamilton would be walking down Eight Mile at night.
《汉密尔顿》的全体演员将在晚上沿着八英里步行。
It would be sexier.
会更性感。
We'll wet the road down.
我们会把路弄湿。
It's always sexy when you do that.
当你这样做的时候总是很性感。
When the road is wet?
当道路湿滑时？
Rich Silverstein When you shoot car commercials, you always wet the road down so it glistens.
Rich Silverstein 当你拍摄汽车广告时，你总是把道路弄湿，让它闪闪发光。
Come on.
快点。
Anything looks better when it's glossy.
任何东西当有光泽时看起来都会更好。
And so you wet the road down, and they're shining.
当你把路弄湿后，它们就会闪闪发光。
And they're walking towards us.
他们正在向我们走来。
And they're singing.
他们在唱歌。
And in the background, the beat of it will be sampled, we totally screwed up, actually from the CEO who said it.
在后台，它的节拍将被采样，我们完全搞砸了，实际上是首席执行官说的。
Volkswagen is sorry.
大众汽车很遗憾。
We have totally screwed up.
我们完全搞砸了。
We the people's wagon, in order to build a more perfect engine, establish trust and ensure our company's tranquility, provide for our defense.
我们人民的马车，为了打造更加完美的引擎，建立信任，保障我们公司的安宁，为我们的国防提供保障。
The cast from Hamilton will be using the United States preamble.
汉密尔顿的演员阵容将使用美国的序言。
I'm thinking, anyway.
无论如何，我在想。
We're working on this now.
我们现在正在研究这个问题。
Jeez.
天啊。
--fictious emissions.
——虚构排放量。
We lied.
我们撒谎了。
They were 40% higher than the [BLEEP] we submitted.
它们比我们提交的 [BLEEP] 高 40%。
And we admit our decision was whack and lacking the vision, but at least we engineered that software with exquisite precision.
我们承认我们的决定是错误的并且缺乏远见，但至少我们以精湛的精度设计了该软件。
Yo, I'm kidding and it's time for us--
哟，我在开玩笑，现在是我们的时间了——
And it will kind of go to the defense that if we come to America, we'll fix everything and you'll buy our cars again.
这可以说是一种辩护，如果我们来到美国，我们会修复一切，你会再次购买我们的汽车。
Honestly, we've got a lot to offer the US economy.
老实说，我们可以为美国经济提供很多东西。
Imagine German engineers in the land of the free.
想象一下德国工程师在自由之地的情况。
(GERMAN ACCENT) Wait.
（德国口音）等等。
Are you suggesting we move the entire VW company to--
你是否建议我们将整个大众公司搬到——
That's right.
没错。
Detroit.
底特律。
Zoe Chace We reached out to Volkswagen and to the ad agency that has the Volkswagen account.
Zoe Chace 我们联系了大众汽车以及拥有大众汽车账户的广告公司。
They declined to talk to us.
他们拒绝与我们交谈。
But I did run the three ad ideas by Brad and Rick, the guys who turned Jack in the Box around with their marketing campaign, to see which ad they think would work the best.
但我确实研究了布拉德和里克的三个广告创意，他们通过营销活动扭转了“盒子里的杰克”的形象，看看他们认为哪一个广告效果最好。
Brad likes the voting one.
布拉德喜欢投票那个。
He says millennials like being a part of things.
他说千禧一代喜欢成为事物的一部分。
And he's got a campaign like that in the works for his company Hardee's.
他正在为自己的公司 Hardee's 开展类似的活动。
Rick kind of likes the documentary idea because he thinks the most important thing to do now is an investigation.
里克有点喜欢纪录片的想法，因为他认为现在最重要的事情是调查。
The people who did this are going to have to be identified and terminated publicly.
这样做的人必须被公开识别并被处决。
Kurt and Gerhardt and Wilhelm and Heinrich, or whoever they are, they're going to have to be sacrificed because Volkswagen needs to live on.
库尔特、格哈特、威廉和海因里希，无论他们是谁，他们都必须牺牲，因为大众汽车需要生存下去。
And they have to move fast.
他们必须快速行动。
Their brand is being defined by everybody else right now.
他们的品牌现在正在被其他人定义。
Rick thinks they can't be off the air for more than a couple months.
里克认为他们停播的时间不能超过几个月。
This is no time to think small.
现在不是想小事的时候。
Zoe Chace.
佐伊·查斯。
[MUSIC - "WHAT CAN I SAY AFTER I SAY I'M SORRY?" BY DINAH WASHINGTON]
[音乐 - “在我说对不起之后我还能说什么？”作者：黛娜·华盛顿]
Credits Ira Glass Well, our program was produced today by Jonathan Menjivar with Sean Cole, Neil Drumming, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, Miki Meek, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
感谢 Ira Glass 嗯，我们今天的节目由 Jonathan Menjivar 与 Sean Cole、Neil Drumming、Stephanie Foo、Chana Joffe-Walt、Miki Meek、Brian Reed、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Our editor is Joel Lovell.
我们的编辑是乔尔·洛弗尔。
Julie Snyder is our editorial consultant.
朱莉·斯奈德是我们的编辑顾问。
Production help from Lily Sullivan.
莉莉·沙利文 (Lily Sullivan) 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our production manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson's our business operations manager.
Elise Bergerson 是我们的业务运营经理。
Elna Baker scouts stories for our show.
艾尔娜·贝克为我们的节目寻找故事。
Kimberly Henderson is our office coordinator.
Kimberly Henderson 是我们的办公室协调员。
Research help today from Michelle Harris and Christopher Swetala.
米歇尔·哈里斯 (Michelle Harris) 和克里斯托弗·斯韦塔拉 (Christopher Swetala) 今天为研究提供了帮助。
Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddis.
Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddis 提供音乐帮助。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们计划的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, whenever we go out and get drinks, he always says to me, you talk enough on the radio.
你知道，每当我们出去喝酒时，他总是对我说，你在广播里说得够多了。
But here--
但这里——
Just shut up.
闭嘴吧。
Just be quiet.
安静点。
Ira Glass I'm Ira Glass.
艾拉·格拉斯 我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - "WHAT CAN I SAY AFTER I SAY I'M SORRY?" BY DINAH WASHINGTON]
[音乐 - “在我说对不起之后我还能说什么？”作者：黛娜·华盛顿]
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。