563: The Problem We All Live With - Part Two - This American Life

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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #563 | August 7, 2015 563: The Problem We All Live With - Part Two Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 563 集 | 2015 年 8 月 7 日 563：我们共同面临的问题 - 第二部分 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。

If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.

如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。

Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue Ira Glass Kiana Jackson is a kid who frequently scans the room for a more exciting option than what is right in front of her.

序言 艾拉·格拉斯 基亚娜·杰克逊是一个孩子，她经常扫视房间，寻找比眼前更令人兴奋的选择。

So of course she was the first to notice a regular day, freshman year, high school, when something exciting did happen.

所以，当然，她是第一个注意到正常的一天，一年级，高中，当一些令人兴奋的事情发生时。

The kids were visiting from private school just up the road, part of an exchange program between the two schools that one of our producers, Chana Joffe-Walt, did some reporting on that ran here on our program a few months ago.

孩子们是从路边的私立学校来参观的，这是两所学校之间交流计划的一部分，我们的制作人查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt) 几个月前在我们的节目中对此进行了一些报道。

When we started putting together this week's radio show, Chana thought Kiana had to be on it.

当我们开始准备本周的广播节目时，查娜认为琪亚娜必须参加。

Hey there, Chana.

嘿，查娜。

Hello.

你好。

Ira Glass So why did you want her for this show?

Ira Glass 那么你为什么要她来参加这个节目呢？

I mean, partly I wanted her for this show because of this moment right here and how Kiana handled it.

我的意思是，我希望她参加这个节目的部分原因是因为此时此刻以及基亚娜的处理方式。

Kiana is super charming.

琪亚娜超级迷人。

She's just sheer enthusiasm.

她只是纯粹的热情。

She's a Latina kid in school and she sees a bunch of kids who don't look like anyone else in the cafeteria and she is not suspicious, or shy, or mean.

她在学校里是一个拉丁裔孩子，她看到自助餐厅里有一群看起来不像其他人的孩子，她并不多疑，也不害羞，也不刻薄。

She is just excited.

她只是很兴奋。

She runs toward their table.

她跑向他们的桌子。

And then the thing that Kiana said to me was actually something she said way later at her graduation, at her high school graduation.

然后琪亚娜对我说的话实际上是她在毕业典礼上、在她高中毕业典礼上说的。

I asked if she kept in touch with any of the kids she met in this program.

我问她是否与她在这个项目中遇到的任何孩子保持联系。

Are you still in touch with anybody?

你还和其他人保持联系吗？

Fests?

节日？

Chana Joffe-Walt Yeah, the fests are apparently these parties that the private school kids have, and Kiana told me they'll rent out a private club in Manhattan and--

Chana Joffe-Walt 是的，这些节日显然是私立学校孩子们举办的聚会，基亚娜告诉我他们会在曼哈顿租一个私人俱乐部，然后——

[LAUGHTER] Chana Joffe-Walt What's "white kid wasted" mean?

[笑声] Chana Joffe-Walt “白孩子浪费了”是什么意思？

I don't know.

我不知道。

KIANA JACKSON: It's parties that we haven't experienced.

KIANA JACKSON：这是我们从未经历过的派对。

Kiana paused after this, thought about it more, and finally said, "I don't know.

琪亚娜顿了顿，又想了想，最后道：“我不知道。

I don't know what white wasted is.

我不知道什么叫白白浪费。

That's why I want to go.

这就是我想去的原因。

I want to see what that looks like."

我想看看那是什么样子。”

So I've thought about this moment many times since then, because it's weird, right?

所以从那以后我多次想到这一刻，因为这很奇怪，对吧？

Kiana is a New Yorker.

琪亚娜是纽约人。

She grew up in New York City, where there are something like four million white people, and she had never had one as a friend and she was so curious about white kids.

她在纽约长大，那里有大约四百万白人，她从未有过一个朋友，而且她对白人孩子很好奇。

And she told me at graduation that she decided to go to college upstate, to a school that would have mostly white students.

她在毕业时告诉我，她决定去北部的大学，一所主要是白人学生的学校。

And a big part of that was just because she wanted something different.

其中很大一部分原因只是因为她想要一些不同的东西。

She still had this curiosity and she was basically going on this one woman integration program.

她仍然有这种好奇心，而且她基本上正在进行这个单一女性整合计划。

Which brings us to today's program.

这就引出了今天的节目。

Last week, we did a program about people resisting integration at every turn.

上周，我们做了一个关于人们每次都抵制融合的节目。

This week, we have a show of people who are running towards it, people like Kiana.

本周，我们将展示一群朝着这个目标奔跑的人们，比如琪亚娜。

And when that process goes well, the inevitable next step in an integration program, even if it's a program with just one person in it, is that people meet each other, they go through the basic "Who are you?

当这个过程进展顺利时，整合计划中不可避免的下一步，即使是一个只有一个人的计划，也是人们互相见面，他们会经历基本的“你是谁？

What are you about?"

你到底在干嘛？”

And so, Chana, how is it going?

那么，Chana，最近怎么样？

How is her voluntary school desegregation plan that she invented for herself going?

她为自己发明的自愿学校废除种族隔离计划进行得怎么样了？

Mostly great.

大部分都很棒。

She's a year in.

她入职一年了

She just finished her freshman year, but it's been an adjustment.

她刚读完大一，但这是一个调整。

I mean, everything is different.

我的意思是，一切都不同了。

Wait, so you find yourself questioning if they do really want to hold the door for you?

等等，你发现自己在怀疑他们是否真的想为你把门？

This is probably a difference of moving from New York City to a small town but to Kiana she wonders, "Maybe they do that because they're white." Kiana went from a high school that is 1% white to a college that is 75% white, so this is a thing that happens with segregation.

这可能是从纽约搬到小镇的区别，但对基亚娜来说，她想知道，“也许他们这样做是因为他们是白人。” Kiana 从一所 1% 白人的高中升入一所 75% 白人的大学，所以这是种族隔离中发生的事情。

Once you get around people who you haven't been around before, you become just super aware of their race and your race, and is that thing happening right now because of race or is that because you're white?

一旦你接触到以前从未接触过的人，你就会变得非常了解他们的种族和你的种族，而现在发生这种事情是因为种族还是因为你是白人？

Is that because you're from a different part of the country or a small town?

这是因为您来自该国的其他地区或小镇吗？

Are you just weird?

你只是奇怪吗？

Kiana told me she has two white roommates, and one of her roommates always asks her is it OK if I sleep over at my boyfriend's place tonight?

基亚娜告诉我她有两个白人室友，她的一个室友总是问她今晚我可以去我男朋友家过夜吗？

Which who knows why she does that?

谁知道她为什么这么做？

Maybe she just thinks somebody should know where I'm sleeping.

也许她只是认为应该有人知道我睡在哪里。

But to Kiana, it seems strange, and the first thing she goes to is, "Oh, that must be a white thing."

但对琪亚娜来说，这似乎很奇怪，她首先想到的是，“哦，那一定是一个白色的东西。”

And has she seen white wasted?

她见过白色被浪费了吗？

Did she get her wish?

她的愿望实现了吗？

She did.

她做到了。

It took a little while, but she did.

虽然花了一点时间，但她做到了。

There was this big football game that she told me about in great detail between her school, SUNY Cortland, and their arch rival, Ithaca College.

她详细地向我讲述了她的学校纽约州立大学科特兰分校和他们的主要竞争对手伊萨卡学院之间的一场大型足球比赛。

And it was her first football game.

这是她的第一场足球比赛。

Very exciting.

非常令人兴奋。

And after the game, kids from both schools left the stadium, flooded the streets.

比赛结束后，两所学校的孩子们离开了体育场，涌上街道。

Was the girl from Ithaca?

那个女孩来自伊萨卡吗？

KIANA JACKSON: Yeah, she was an Ithaca girl.

基安娜·杰克逊：是的，她是伊萨卡女孩。

All the girls in the car were from Ithaca, and that's why they did that.

车里的所有女孩都来自伊萨卡，这就是他们这样做的原因。

Oh, OK.

哦，好吧。

KIANA JACKSON: And the girls pissed off.

基安娜·杰克逊：女孩们很生气。

And they were arguing and arguing.

他们一直在争论。

She spit at him.

她向他吐口水。

And they were like, "Oh, we don't care.

他们就像，“哦，我们不在乎。

Blah-blah-blah."

巴拉巴拉巴拉。”

Then she says everybody started pulling down their pants and putting their butts on the car.

她说，然后每个人都开始脱下裤子，把屁股放在车上。

Was that what you imagined?

那是你想象的吗？

KIANA JACKSON: Definitely, just insane, definitely what I pictured.

KIANA JACKSON：当然，简直太疯狂了，绝对就是我想象的那样。

It lived up to the expectations.

它没有辜负人们的期望。

No boundaries at all, just like epic.

完全没有界限，就像史诗一样。

They just act like next level crazy, like in a big mob, just do what you want.

他们的行为就像下一个级别的疯狂，就像在一大群暴民中一样，只是做你想做的事。

And Ithaca, they had this slogan, "Portland girls poop." And it was like--

伊萨卡岛有这样的口号：“波特兰女孩拉屎”。那就像——

Wait, "Portland girls poop?" KIANA JACKSON: Yeah, that's what they-- that was their comeback--

等等，“波特兰女孩拉屎？”基亚娜·杰克逊：是的，这就是他们——那是他们的回归——

Like, P-O-O-P?

就像，P-O-O-P？

KIANA JACKSON: Yeah, it was really bad.

基亚娜·杰克逊：是的，那真的很糟糕。

We were just like, "OK, I guess."

我们只是想，“好吧，我想。”

Kiana wanted to be around white kids just because it seemed fun, and interesting, and I think she'd get to test out some theories about how crazy white kids are, how much freedom they get to be crazy.

基亚娜想和白人孩子在一起只是因为这看起来很有趣，而且我认为她会测试一些关于白人孩子有多疯狂的理论，以及他们有多少自由可以疯狂。

But also, this gets her something, something Kiana thinks it's worth going out of her way for.

而且，这也让她得到了一些东西，一些琪亚娜认为值得她为之付出努力的东西。

Last week on our program, we did the first of two episodes on school desegregation, and we heard about a place that integrated schools by accident, really by accident.

上周在我们的节目中，我们做了关于学校废除种族隔离的两集中的第一集，我们听说了一个偶然地整合学校的地方，真的是偶然。

And the white schools in that story, they did not want integration.

故事中的白人学校不想融入。

The governor and state legislator are actually right now trying to undo it-- this is in Missouri-- even though, as we said last week, integrating public schools has proven to be this incredibly effective way to improve education, to close the achievement gap between minority students and white students.

事实上，州长和州立法者现在正试图扭转这一局面——这是在密苏里州——尽管正如我们上周所说，整合公立学校已被证明是改善教育、缩小少数族裔学生和白人学生之间成绩差距的极其有效的方式。

And today, we wanted to see what happens when integration is a plan that everybody is embracing, when people do not run away, or move, or resist, when they do what Kiana did and they seek it out, thinking that it will give them something valuable.

今天，我们想看看当整合成为每个人都接受的计划时，当人们不逃跑、不移动或抵抗时，当他们做基亚娜所做的事情并寻求它，认为这会给他们带来有价值的东西时，会发生什么。

We have the story today of an entire city trying, I mean actively trying, to integrate the schools.

今天我们看到整个城市都在努力，我的意思是积极努力，整合学校。

And we got the White House on line 1.

我们乘坐 1 号线到达了白宫。

I don't even know what that means, but it just seems like something you say.

我什至不知道这意味着什么，但看起来就像你说的那样。

Stay with us.

留在我们身边。

Act 1, my secret public plan.

第一幕，我的秘密公共计划。

Act One: My Secret Public Plan Ira Glass I want to read to you a report from the state commissioner of education from the state of Connecticut written in 1987.

第一幕：我的秘密公共计划 Ira Glass 我想给你们读一份康涅狄格州教育专员 1987 年写的报告。

This is the kind of routine annual report sort of thing they put out, but the commissioner must have woken up feeling bold and literary the morning that he wrote this particular one, because he spoke of the tale of two Connecticuts, one wealthier, majority white Connecticut with great schools, another poor, majority black and Latino Connecticut with awful schools.

这是他们发布的例行年度报告之类的东西，但专员在写这篇特别报告的那天早上醒来时一定感到大胆和文学，因为他谈到了两个康涅狄格州的故事，一个是富裕的、以白人为主的康涅狄格州，拥有很好的学校，另一个是贫穷的、以黑人和拉丁裔为主的康涅狄格州，学校很糟糕。

And then the commissioner said that the state, in the overwhelmingly white suburbs, should promote collective responsibility for integrating the public schools.

然后专员表示，在白人占绝大多数的郊区，州政府应该促进整合公立学校的集体责任。

He's writing this in 1987.

他于 1987 年写下这篇文章。

This is the same year, the same exact year, that Boston began to walk away from busing after a decade of riots and basically civil war there over school integration.

同年，波士顿在经历了十年的骚乱和学校整合问题的内战之后开始放弃公交车服务。

Around the country, cities were giving up on integration.

在全国范围内，城市正在放弃一体化。

There was massive white flight.

出现了大规模的白色飞行。

This is not a time of collective responsibility.

这不是集体责任的时代。

And then, even more remarkable, in at least one city in Connecticut, it happened.

然后，更引人注目的是，在康涅狄格州的至少一个城市，这件事发生了。

In Hartford, they went from 11% of their students in integrated schools to nearly half.

在哈特福德，综合学校的学生比例从 11% 增加到近一半。

Chana has the story of how that happened and what this rare, rare thing looks like today.

查纳讲述了这件事是如何发生的，以及这种罕见的、罕见的东西今天是什么样子。

When that report came out, it was a political scandal.

该报告一出，就成为一桩政治丑闻。

It was on the front page of the newspaper just before Christmas.

圣诞节前夕，这件事登上了报纸的头版。

A state senator called for the commissioner's resignation for writing the report.

一名州参议员要求该专员因撰写该报告而辞职。

The person who got Hartford to go from screaming over that report to actually doing what it called for was a man named John Brittain.

让哈特福德从对这份报告尖叫到真正按照报告要求去做的人是一个名叫约翰·布里顿的人。

John Brittain is a civil rights lawyer.

约翰·布里顿是一名民权律师。

He brings the decorum of a courtroom to all matters.

他以法庭的礼仪对待所有事情。

John Brittain says excuse my street language to proceed an entirely dignified statement.

约翰·布里顿说，请原谅我的街头语言，以进行完全庄严的声明。

He can elevate simple things, like phone tag.

他可以提升简单的事情，比如电话标签。

Hello, Chana.

你好，查娜。

This is John Brittain, calling you back as you requested.

我是约翰·布里顿，根据您的要求给您回电。

I'll try you later on today.

今天晚些时候我会试试你。

I believe you can hear his bowtie through the voicemail.

我相信你可以通过语音信箱听到他打领结的声音。

It's Tuesday, the 14th of July.

今天是 7 月 14 日，星期二。

Bye-bye.

再见。

Soon after the report came out, John Brittain, with other lawyers and 17 plaintiffs, sued the state.

报告发布后不久，约翰·布里顿 (John Brittain) 与其他律师和 17 名原告一起起诉了该州。

Connecticut was a good candidate for this kind of case because of its constitution and legal precedent there.

康涅狄格州因其宪法和法律先例而成为此类案件的良好候选者。

But John Brittain believed even if he won in court, they still might not actually get desegregation.

但约翰·布里顿相信，即使他在法庭上获胜，他们仍然可能不会真正废除种族隔离。

He'd studied countless examples of legal victories that led to busing, which led to riots and white flight.

他研究了无数法律胜利的例子，这些例子导致了公交车、骚乱和白人逃亡。

And he knew how easily people could call the whole thing a disaster and walk away.

他知道人们很容易将整件事称为灾难并走开。

He needed to innovate.

他需要创新。

Desegregation would only stick if people chose it.

只有人们选择废除种族隔离才会持续下去。

He would get the courts on his side, but he needed the public even more.

他会让法庭站在他一边，但他更需要公众。

By the time he won, if he won, John Brittain needed the public to want to integrate.

当约翰·布里顿获胜时，如果他赢了，他需要公众想要融入。

He needed to create what the report called for-- a sense of collective responsibility.

他需要创造报告所呼吁的——集体责任感。

So in addition to battling in the courts, he was preparing a second front, a battle that would happen for the newspapers and TV.

因此，除了在法庭上的斗争之外，他还在准备第二条战线，一场将在报纸和电视上发生的战斗。

The people he'd be bringing into court would have to do double duty.

他带入法庭的人必须履行双重职责。

They'd have to give legal testimony and also talk to the people of Connecticut.

他们必须提供法律证词并与康涅狄格州人民交谈。

Of course, those who could testify most credibly about the conditions in the schools were employed by the schools.

当然，那些能够最可信地证明学校条件的人都是学校雇用的。

And we had to ask the superintendent if he would mind using his employees to be plaintiffs in the case, and he consented.

我们不得不询问主管是否介意用他的员工作为此案的原告，他同意了。

Happily?

高兴吗？

John Brittain Yes, right.

约翰·布里顿 是的，没错。

What superintendent do you know would let his employees be a plaintiff in a suit that's going to-- excuse my street language-- bad mouth the district in terms of its disadvantages in open court?

你知道哪个主管会让他的雇员成为一场诉讼的原告，而这起诉讼将——请原谅我的街头语言——在公开法庭上说该地区的劣势？

Hartford teachers did badmouth the district.

哈特福德的老师们对学区说坏话。

They described what it was like to teach a classroom of kids who came to school without coats in the winter.

他们描述了在冬天给一群没有穿外套上学的孩子们上课的感觉。

They complained about instructional time lost because nearly every child in the class suffered severe emotional issues, or dental issues, or hadn't eaten.

他们抱怨教学时间的损失，因为班上几乎每个孩子都患有严重的情绪问题，或牙齿问题，或没有吃饭。

They said their classrooms were overwhelmed by poverty.

他们说他们的教室因贫困而不堪重负。

One principal described how when it rained his cafeteria would flood.

一位校长描述了下雨时他的自助餐厅会被淹的情况。

A classroom ceiling had collapsed a few minutes before kids came to class.

孩子们来上课前几分钟，教室的天花板倒塌了。

And he described how another time the roof came down, pigeon carcasses came tumbling into the building.

他还描述了另一次屋顶塌陷时，鸽子尸体滚落到建筑物中的情况。

Pigeon carcasses.

鸽子尸体。

The lawyers made sure to dwell on that one.

律师们一定要仔细考虑这一点。

The dead pigeons made the front page of the newspaper.

死鸽子登上了报纸的头版。

Readers were horrified.

读者们都被吓坏了。

And the people inside the schools, who already knew about this, were excited.

而那些已经知道这件事的学校里的人，也是兴奋不已。

Someone was finally talking about it.

终于有人在谈论这件事了。

They were calling John Brittain and asking to testify.

他们打电话给约翰·布里顿并要求作证。

It became a bandwagon.

它成为一股潮流。

Everyone got on.

大家都上车了。

We had the city government, the teachers, the parents, the religious community, everybody connected, the business community, the city council begged to be a plaintiff in this suit.

市政府、教师、家长、宗教团体、所有相关人员、商界、市议会都请求成为这起诉讼的原告。

The Board of Education begged to be a plaintiff in the suit.

教育委员会请求成为诉讼的原告。

Wait, the Board of Education begged to be a plaintiff?

等等，教委求原告？

Yes, they were totally on our side.

是的，他们完全站在我们一边。

They turned over all the records, all the information, all their data.

他们交出了所有的记录、所有的信息、所有的数据。

So you're suing the state-- John Brittain Yes.

所以你要起诉国家——约翰·布里顿（John Brittain） 是的。

And the Board of Education is asking to be on your side, and not only to be on your side but to testify.

教育委员会要求站在你一边，不仅要站在你一边，还要作证。

Correct.

正确。

Chana Joffe-Walt There are only a few places in the country that have seriously committed to school integration over a long period of time.

Chana Joffe-Walt 全国只有少数几个地方长期认真致力于学校融合。

Louisville, Kentucky is one.

肯塔基州路易斯维尔就是其中之一。

Wake County in North Carolina.

北卡罗来纳州威克县。

Those are the biggest.

这些是最大的。

And in each case, something like this right here has occurred.

在每种情况下，类似的事情都发生过。

A public reckoning seems to be a required step, some sort of long process by which the gap between two unequal systems is made very clear to the people who are not paying attention.

公众清算似乎是一个必要的步骤，这是一个漫长的过程，通过这个过程，两个不平等制度之间的差距可以让那些不关注的人非常清楚。

The people John Brittain chose to testify did not just talk about the bleak education Hartford students were getting.

约翰·布里顿选择作证的人不仅仅谈论哈特福德学生所接受的惨淡教育。

They talked about what they were not getting, what it meant for their students to go to school so close to kids who had great teachers, beautiful classrooms with solid ceilings, kids whose parents had cars and college degrees and ran insurance companies in town.

他们谈论了他们没有得到的东西，对他们的学生来说，上学意味着什么，他们的孩子拥有优秀的老师，漂亮的教室和坚固的天花板，孩子的父母拥有汽车和大学学位，并在镇上经营保险公司。

One teacher testified, "I think that children can overcome the stigma of poverty.

一位老师作证说：“我认为孩子们可以克服贫困的耻辱。

I think children can overcome the stigma of their ethnicity.

我认为孩子们可以克服自己种族的耻辱。

But what they cannot overcome is the stigma of separation.

但他们无法克服的是分离的耻辱。

That is like a damned spot in their being and their self-image.

这就像他们的存在和自我形象中的一个该死的地方。

And that's what segregation does to children.

这就是隔离对儿童的影响。

They see themselves as apart and separate because of the language they speak, because of the color of their skin, the origin of their parents."

他们认为自己是孤立的，因为他们所说的语言，因为他们的肤色，因为他们父母的出身。”

John Brittain and his team won on an appeal to the state Supreme Court in 1996.

1996 年，约翰·布里顿 (John Brittain) 和他的团队在向州最高法院提起的上诉中获胜。

It took another seven years, until 2003, for the state to settle with the plaintiffs, 14 years after he first filed the suit.

又过了七年，直到 2003 年，州政府才与原告达成和解，此时距离他第一次提起诉讼已有 14 年。

When they did settle, the plan they came up with is a system where every family can choose integrated schools.

当他们安定下来后，他们提出的计划是一个每个家庭都可以选择综合学校的制度。

But they don't have to.

但他们不必这样做。

No parent would be required to send their kid across town.

父母不需要送孩子穿过城镇。

No forced busing, as it was called.

没有所谓的强制巴士。

If desegregation was going to work, it would be completely voluntary.

如果废除种族隔离能够奏效，那将是完全自愿的。

Parents would opt in.

父母会选择加入。

And not just the parents who read headlines during the decade long trial, but parents a whole generation later, now, parents who were kids themselves when the dead pigeons were in the newspaper.

不仅是在长达十年的试验中阅读头条新闻的父母，而且是整整一代人之后的父母，现在，当死鸽子出现在报纸上时，父母自己还是孩子。

John Brittain's theory that with the help of the courts it was possible to design an integrated school system where parents continue to opt into integration over and over again, that's what's being tested right now in Hartford.

约翰·布里顿（John Brittain）的理论是，在法院的帮助下，可以设计一个一体化的学校系统，让家长不断地选择融入，这就是哈特福德目前正在测试的理论。

Everyday day at school, I get to do what I love best with friends from all over Greater Hartford.

在学校的每一天，我都可以和来自大哈特福德各地的朋友一起做我最喜欢做的事情。

From broad, lofty vision to sales, just as John Brittain did for over a decade in court, Hartford is still every moment of every day waging an aggressive hearts and minds campaign.

从广阔、崇高的愿景到销售，就像约翰·布里顿十多年来在法庭上所做的那样，哈特福德仍然每天每时每刻都在发动一场积极的人心运动。

Only now, they aren't selling a vision.

只是现在，他们不再兜售愿景。

They're selling actual schools, great new schools, magnet schools that each have some special focus, like performing arts or environmental sciences.

他们出售的是真实的学校、优秀的新学校、磁石学校，每所学校都有一些特殊的重点，比如表演艺术或环境科学。

And they're selling these schools specifically to white suburban families.

他们专门向郊区白人家庭出售这些学校。

In large part, Hartford's integration plan hinges on getting white kids to come and integrate Hartford schools, white kids like this cheerful girl in the promotional video who has friends from all over Greater Hartford.

在很大程度上，哈特福德的融合计划取决于让白人孩子来融入哈特福德学校，白人孩子就像宣传视频中这个开朗的女孩，她的朋友来自大哈特福德各地。

She goes to a Hartford magnet school.

她就读于哈特福德磁石学校。

Which one, you ask?

你问哪一个？

I chose Classical Magnet, where I get to learn Latin, the liberal arts, and get ready for a top college.

我选择了古典磁石，在那里我可以学习拉丁语、文科，并为进入顶尖大学做好准备。

And there are other schools for working with computers and technology, performing plays, dance, and music, engineering, running your own business, sports and medical sciences, and a lot more.

还有其他学校可以教授计算机和技术、表演戏剧、舞蹈和音乐、工程、经营自己的企业、体育和医学等等。

I chose to go to a Harvard host magnet school and so can you.

我选择去哈佛精英学校就读，你也可以。

She chose this.

她选择了这个。

That's on purpose.

这是故意的。

This is not forced anything.

这并不是强迫什么。

It is a multimedia blitz.

这是一场多媒体闪电战。

There are videos, and T-shirts, and USB sticks, and bracelets, and iPhone covers.

有视频、T 恤、U 盘、手镯和 iPhone 保护套。

There are radio spots with HOT-937.

有 HOT-937 的广播节目。

Songs on Hot 937, hot937.com.

Hot 937、hot937.com 上的歌曲。

Chana Joffe-Walt And there's a chief marketer.

Chana Joffe-Walt 还有一位首席营销人员。

The woman behind the Hartford sales assault is named Enid Rey.

哈特福德销售袭击事件的幕后黑手名叫伊妮德·雷伊 (Enid Rey)。

Enid Rey considers any time of the year a good time to be selling Hartford magnet schools, even Christmas.

伊妮德·雷伊 (Enid Rey) 认为一年中的任何时候都是出售哈特福德磁石学校的好时机，甚至圣诞节也不例外。

I'm Enid Ray.

我是伊妮德·雷。

How are you?

你好吗？

I'm doing really well.

我做得很好。

That time of year again?

又是一年中的那个时候吗？

Enid Rey Yes, it is that time of year.

伊妮德·雷伊 是的，正是一年中的这个时候。

With holiday cheer comes the best gift you can give your child-- quality educational experience.

伴随着节日的欢乐，您可以给孩子最好的礼物——优质的教育体验。

Education.

教育。

Enid Rey That's right.

伊妮德·雷伊 没错。

That's the name of the game.

这就是游戏的名字。

Enid Rey is a powerhouse.

伊妮德·雷伊是一位强者。

She's a lawyer by training, and when she was in law school, she studied law from one incredibly inspiring teacher named John Brittain.

她是一名受过训练的律师，当她在法学院时，她从一位名叫约翰·布里顿（John Brittain）的令人难以置信的鼓舞人心的老师那里学习法律。

Enid Rey was John Brittain's student in the early '90s, and now it's on her to keep John Brittain's plan moving forward.

伊妮德·雷伊 (Enid Rey) 是 90 年代初约翰·布里顿 (John Brittain) 的学生，现在她有责任让约翰·布里顿 (John Brittain) 的计划继续前进。

We are always recruiting.

我们一直在招募。

We're always trying to get the message out about our Hartforod schools.

我们一直在努力传播有关我们哈特福罗德学校的信息。

Outside Enid's office, there's a cartoony picture of a school bus filled with multicultural kids.

伊妮德的办公室外面有一张卡通图片，上面是一辆校车，里面满是多元文化的孩子。

But I would not have been surprised to see a sign with the words "Always be closing" in that spot.

但如果在那个地方看到写着“永远关门”的牌子，我不会感到惊讶。

Enid throws around marketing phrases like "value proposition." She's learned how to transform any question into an answer that begins with "I think what's great is." And she is so quick.

伊妮德抛出诸如“价值主张”之类的营销短语。她学会了如何将任何问题转化为以“我认为伟大的是”开头的答案。而且她速度这么快。

She'll note, "Did you say your kid was into art?

她会指出，“你是说你的孩子喜欢艺术吗？

Have you heard of the Hartford Academy of the Arts?

您听说过哈特福德艺术学院吗？

Here's a brochure and a video.

这是一本小册子和一个视频。

I noticed you have a younger son over there.

我注意到你那边有一个小儿子。

Did I mention the magnet schools provide free pre-K?

我有没有提到磁石学校提供免费的学前班？

Our Montessori program is very popular.

我们的蒙特梭利课程非常受欢迎。

Oh, and the environmental sciences school--"

哦，还有环境科学学院——”

Has a wonderful community room, outdoor gardens, a butterfly vivarium.

有一个很棒的社区活动室、室外花园、蝴蝶饲养室。

What a gift it is to be able to drive in with your child every day.

每天能够开车和你的孩子一起去，这是多么好的礼物啊。

And so one of our recruitment billboards said "Both you and your child should be working here in Hartford." That was a hook.

因此，我们的招聘广告牌之一上写着“你和你的孩子都应该在哈特福德工作。”那是一个钩子。

Enid Rey begins many days by staring at a map.

伊妮德·雷伊 (Enid Rey) 开始的很多天都是盯着地图。

Hartford students are 80% black and Hispanic.

哈特福德的学生 80% 是黑人和西班牙裔。

10 miles outside the city are suburbs like Glastonbury and Avon that are 90% white.

城外 10 英里处是格拉斯顿伯里 (Glastonbury) 和埃文 (Avon) 等郊区，其中 90% 是白人。

They can bus Hartford kids out of the city, and they do, but they also have to get white kids in.

他们可以用巴士把哈特福德的孩子带出城市，他们确实这样做了，但他们也必须让白人孩子进来。

So a lot of mornings, Enid zeroes in on all the suburbs.

所以很多个早晨，伊妮德都会把注意力集中在所有郊区。

Who are they reaching?

他们的目标是谁？

Where should her recruiter go that day?

那天她的招聘人员应该去哪里？

So Bloomfield has a 28% participation rate versus Simsbury, which has a 3.3% participation rate.

因此，布卢姆菲尔德的参与率为 28%，而西姆斯伯里的参与率为 3.3%。

That's where she's going.

那就是她要去的地方。

Enid and her staff show up at baseball games in the suburbs, talk to parents about Hartford magnet schools, they leave brochures in suburban libraries, they shop at Girl Scout troop meetings, Mommy and Me groups, the YMCA.

伊妮德和她的员工出现在郊区的棒球比赛中，与家长谈论哈特福德磁石学校，他们在郊区图书馆留下小册子，他们在女童子军会议、妈妈和我团体、基督教青年会购物。

They study this market meticulously.

他们仔细研究这个市场。

And they consult professional marketing firms, not your little mom and pop places either, Enid tells me proudly, but people who advise companies like Apple.

伊妮德自豪地告诉我，他们咨询的是专业营销公司，也不是你的小夫妻店，而是为苹果这样的公司提供咨询的人。

Folks who have the technology and expertise to try to help us segment the population and hit the target, just like Pepsi, Coca-Cola, and Apple.

那些拥有技术和专业知识的人可以帮助我们细分人群并实现目标，就像百事可乐、可口可乐和苹果一样。

And just like they do in the marketing departments of large corporations, Hartford invented a scientific sounding term for the target population.

就像他们在大公司营销部门所做的那样，哈特福德为目标人群发明了一个听起来科学的术语。

They call them "reduced isolation students." That means white kids.

他们称他们为“减少隔离的学生”。这意味着白人孩子。

And more recently, they included Asian kids in this mix too.

最近，他们也将亚洲孩子纳入其中。

They need 25%.

他们需要25%。

A school that is 25% reduced isolation kids officially counts as an integrated school.

减少 25% 隔离儿童的学校被正式视为综合学校。

That is the target of all of this effort, all the maps, the marketing firms, the promotional videos, all sales directed at one precise target.

这就是所有这些努力的目标，所有的地图、营销公司、宣传视频、所有的销售都针对一个精确的目标。

What is that?

那是什么？

Sarah Welcome Let me put out some food for you.

莎拉欢迎让我给你准备一些食物。

[LAUGHTER] Chana Joffe-Walt I talked to lots of white suburban families around Hartford to find out what it's like to be on the receiving end of Enid's marketing blitz.

[笑声] Chana Joffe-Walt 我与哈特福德周围的许多郊区白人家庭进行了交谈，以了解成为伊妮德营销闪电战的接收端的感受。

Sarah and Ryan Welcome got my call, invited me over to their home, prepared a spread of food for me, including olives with toothpicks that their nine-year-old delivered to my hand, because that's just how they do.

Sarah 和 Ryan Welcome 接到了我的电话，邀请我去他们家，为我准备了丰盛的食物，包括他们九岁的孩子送到我手上的带牙签的橄榄，因为这就是他们的做法。

Man!

伙计！

Get comfortable.

舒服点。

Ryan Welcome Don't worry.

瑞安欢迎 别担心。

You're going to get pampered here, OK?

你会在这里得到宠爱，好吗？

That is amazing.

这真是太棒了。

The Welcomes live in a suburb across the river from Hartford-- three kids, dogs, reptiles, lots of snacks.

迎宾一家住在哈特福德河对岸的郊区——三个孩子、狗、爬行动物和很多零食。

They grew up going to their neighborhood school and figured their kids would do the same.

他们从小就在附近的学校上学，并认为他们的孩子也会这样做。

When their oldest was about to turn five, Sarah Welcome went to an open house at the school down the road.

当他们最大的孩子快五岁的时候，莎拉·维尔康去参加了路边学校的开放日活动。

And I left feeling a little-- I wasn't really impressed with it.

离开时我感觉有点——我对此并没有留下深刻的印象。

The teachers, I thought, were fine.

我觉得老师们都很好。

The school seemed OK.

学校看起来还不错。

I guess it was the parents.

我猜是父母。

It was the parents.

是父母。

They all seemed hostile.

他们似乎都充满敌意。

Like, "What was the school going to do for my kid" sort of attitude.

就像“学校要为我的孩子做什么”之类的态度。

It made me cringe.

这让我感到畏缩。

I just remember the general feeling of being underwhelmed, you know?

我只记得那种不知所措的感觉，你知道吗？

This is Ryan, Sarah's husband.

这是瑞安，莎拉的丈夫。

Just to pause right here for a second to say, this is a moment Enid is obsessed with.

在这里暂停一下，说一下，这是伊妮德着迷的时刻。

There's always a short window where a family's thinking about school and open to new ideas.

总有一个短暂的窗口期，一个家庭会思考学校的问题并接受新的想法。

Enid studies this moment, tries to prepare the ground, and then all she can do is hope that please, please, please, one of her videos or flyers will make it to the target.

伊妮德此刻正在研究，试图准备好地面，然后她所能做的就是希望拜托，拜托，拜托，她的视频或传单之一能够到达目标。

Sarah, just at that moment, had gone back to college, Trinity College, when her son was about to start kindergarten.

就在那时，莎拉已经回到了大学，三一学院，当时她的儿子即将开始上幼儿园。

And very soon after the open house, she ran into a fellow mom, Audrey, at Trinity.

开放日后不久，她就遇到了三一学院的一位妈妈奥黛丽。

I think I was working in the computer lab, writing a paper.

我想我当时正在计算机实验室工作，写论文。

And she had a flyer, and I remember this a little bit more vividly.

她有一张传单，我记得更清楚了。

She said, "You should apply to this magnet school.

她说：“你应该申请这所磁石学校。

There's a new magnet school in Hartford that's taking suburban kids from all over.

哈特福德有一所新的磁石学校，招收来自各地的郊区孩子。

It sounds like a really great program.

听起来真是一个很棒的程序。

It's full day.

已经是一整天了

It's free." And I had never heard of a magnet school before.

它是免费的。”我以前从未听说过磁石学校。

Ryan and I didn't grow up with magnet schools.

瑞安和我并不是在磁石学校长大的。

So this was a whole new concept.

所以这是一个全新的概念。

And just like that, Sarah migrated from one dataset in Enid's office to another-- parents who don't know about magnet schools to parents who do.

就这样，莎拉从伊妮德办公室的一个数据集迁移到另一个数据集——从不了解精英学校的家长迁移到了解精英学校的家长。

Enid knows the next step for this group.

伊妮德知道这个小组的下一步行动。

The Welcomes were curious about this magnet thing.

韦斯夫妇对这个磁铁的东西很好奇。

They read about one online, but then they looked up the address.

他们在网上读到了一篇报道，但随后又查了地址。

I mean, it was in the north end of Hartford.

我的意思是，它位于哈特福德的北端。

And the north end of Hartford is not well known for amazing schools around here or anything like that.

哈特福德的北端并不以周围令人惊叹的学校或类似的地方而闻名。

It's the scary part of Hartford.

这是哈特福德最可怕的部分。

We knew the school had to wow us, because it's in the frickin' north end Hartford.

我们知道这所学校必须让我们惊叹，因为它位于哈特福德的北端。

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思吗？

Ryan is absolutely right.

瑞安是绝对正确的。

It's not necessarily the place where two young parents who grew up in Ellington would find themselves going.

这不一定是两个在艾灵顿长大的年轻父母会去的地方。

I never went to the north end of Hartford.

我从来没有去过哈特福德的北端。

I had absolutely no reason to go there.

我完全没有理由去那里。

Enid knows she has to get parents to go there, because her target families know places like Hartford aren't white, but that's often all they know.

伊妮德知道她必须让父母去那里，因为她的目标家庭知道像哈特福德这样的地方不是白人，但他们通常只知道这些。

They have never searched for housing there.

他们从未在那里寻找过住房。

They don't shop there.

他们不在那里购物。

They don't go to church there.

他们不去那里的教堂。

What they know is people like them used to live there and then they left.

他们所知道的是，像他们这样的人曾经住在那里，然后他们就离开了。

So the last step to get to closing, Enid has to physically get them into the neighborhoods where the schools are so they can see.

因此，关闭的最后一步是，伊妮德必须亲自让他们进入学校所在的社区，以便他们能够看到。

The residential neighborhoods, they look like neighborhoods in Anytown, USA, suburbia.

住宅区看起来就像美国任何城镇的郊区。

They just happen to be in the urban core, and there happened to be a lot more black and brown people around.

他们只是碰巧在市中心，而且周围碰巧有更多的黑人和棕色人种。

And some parents, they'll say, "Are they going to be the only white kid in the class?"

有些家长会说，“他们会成为班上唯一的白人孩子吗？”

This question is the most common one Enid gets, and the most difficult.

这个问题是伊妮德最常见的问题，也是最困难的问题。

White people do not have a lot of practice being the only one.

白人没有太多练习成为唯一的人。

The black family moves into the white neighborhood.

黑人家庭搬进了白人社区。

The black kids much more often are bussed into the white school.

黑人孩子更多地被公交车送到白人学校。

Enid Ray is trying to flip a long American tradition of one way integration.

伊妮德·雷（Enid Ray）正试图颠覆美国单向融合的悠久传统。

The Welcome family made it to the magnet school in the scary part of Hartford, which did not seem so scary to them.

韦肯一家来到了位于哈特福德恐怖地区的磁石学校，但对他们来说，那里似乎并不那么可怕。

They visited Breakthrough Magnet and loved it.

他们参观了 Breakthrough Magnet，并且非常喜欢它。

They ended up sending all three of their children there.

他们最终把三个孩子都送到了那里。

They were not looking for integration but they were happy to find it.

他们并不是在寻求整合，但他们很高兴找到整合。

I thought that was kind of great.

我觉得那太好了。

It's just not how I grew up.

我不是这样长大的。

Honestly, there were maybe, what?

老实说，也许有，什么？

Two black kids in a high school?

两个黑人孩子在高中？

Yeah, I would say.

是的，我会说。

Chana Joffe-Walt This is how integration works in Hartford.

Chana Joffe-Walt 这就是哈特福德整合的运作方式。

Sometimes, white families are happy to see it, but it's not usually why they show up.

有时，白人家庭很高兴看到这一点，但这通常不是他们出现的原因。

Their neighborhood school is often pretty good but they were looking because their kid was bullied, or there was too much standardized testing, or the other parents seemed annoying.

他们附近的学校通常相当不错，但他们之所以寻找学校，是因为他们的孩子被欺负，或者标准化测试太多，或者其他家长看起来很烦人。

Enid, who is selling them on magnet schools, which exist to promote integration, also does not mention integration.

伊妮德在磁石学校上出售这些学校，而磁石学校的存在是为了促进融合，但她也没有提到融合。

The long history of segregated schooling doesn't come up.

种族隔离教育的悠久历史并没有被提及。

The current reality of segregated housing is irrelevant .

目前隔离住房的现实是无关紧要的。

No one here is being moved by a sense of collective responsibility.

这里没有人被集体责任感所感动。

It is as if John Brittain never happened.

就好像约翰·布里顿从未发生过一样。

Instead, the experience Enid is curating is for comfort.

相反，伊妮德策划的体验是为了舒适。

All the detail she considers, like making sure there are white kids in the brochures, or if parents do tour a school, Enid does her best to have their child shadow a white student.

她考虑的所有细节，比如确保小册子中有白人孩子，或者如果家长确实参观学校，伊妮德都会尽最大努力让他们的孩子跟随白人学生。

That way they can see they won't be the only one.

这样他们就可以看到他们不会是唯一的一个。

If it was just we're marketing and all there are, are black and brown families, that person's not going to see themselves reflected.

如果我们只是在营销，而所有的都是黑人和棕色人种家庭，那么那个人就不会看到自己的反映。

But that's so ironic that you're marketing a desegregation program by showing people of the same race that other people of the same race will be there too.

但这太讽刺了，你通过向同一种族的人展示同一种族的其他人也会在那里来推销废除种族隔离计划。

Right, because they need to know that it is about all of us.

是的，因为他们需要知道这关系到我们所有人。

So we encourage families to come and visit us and be surprised.

因此，我们鼓励家人前来拜访我们，并获得惊喜。

This is our vivarium, where we grow plants and stuff.

这是我们的动物园，我们在那里种植植物和东西。

The butterfly vivarium is in the Environmental Sciences Magnet School at Mary Hooker.

蝴蝶饲养室位于玛丽胡克环境科学磁铁学校。

Keegan Miller's a sixth grader there, a white suburban kid with a demanding hairdo.

基根·米勒 (Keegan Miller) 是那里的六年级学生，他是一个住在郊区的白人孩子，发型要求很高。

Keegan was supposed to show an interested suburban student around his school but first I got a personal tour.

基冈本来应该带一位感兴趣的郊区学生参观他的学校，但首先我得到了个人参观。

So this is the aquatics lab.

这是水上运动实验室。

Chana Joffe-Walt Wow.

查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 哇。

Currently, the sixth grade is raising baby trout.

目前，六年级正在饲养小鳟鱼。

And that LEGO item right there, I built that.

那个乐高项目就在那里，是我建造的。

It's an automatic feeder.

这是一个自动喂食器。

It feeds the trout?

它喂鳟鱼吗？

Keegan Miller Yes, every five hours.

基根·米勒 是的，每五个小时一次。

Keegan tells me he built the feeder in the LEGO lab upstairs.

基冈告诉我，他在楼上的乐高实验室里建造了喂食器。

That's Keegan's favorite class, LEGO lab.

那是基冈最喜欢的课程，乐高实验室。

He also made a 3D insect viewer, but that's in the greenhouse.

他还制作了一个 3D 昆虫观察器，但那是在温室里的。

Along our tour, happy looking kid see me with my microphone and stop me to tell me that it's true.

在我们的旅行中，看起来很高兴的孩子看到我拿着麦克风，并阻止我告诉我这是真的。

They are happy.

他们很高兴。

I'm Vaishu.

我是维修。

And I've been in this school for five years.

我在这所学校已经五年了。

I love it.

我喜欢它。

The hundreds of millions of dollars it took to transform this school and other magnet schools in Hartford came from John Brittain's lawsuit.

改造这所学校和哈特福德其他精英学校所需的数亿美元来自约翰·布里顿的诉讼。

.

。

That money built the atrium, with the pond in the middle of it, the angled glass that's all over the place, the aquatics lab.

这笔钱建造了中庭，中间有池塘，到处都是有角度的玻璃，还有水上运动实验室。

I think there's a class in the planetarium.

我想天文馆里有一个班级。

I think they may be watching.

我想他们可能正在看。

Where's the planetarium?

天文馆在哪里？

Keegan Miller This is the planetarium.

基根·米勒 这是天文馆。

Oh, there's nobody in there.

哦，里面没人。

This is a planetarium?

这是天文馆？

Keegan Miller Yeah, the lights don't want to work with me.

基根·米勒 是的，灯光不想和我一起工作。

You could look at space from here.

你可以从这里看太空。

It's really cool.

真的很酷。

All the stars.

所有的星星。

It's like a 360 view.

就像 360 度视图一样。

Whoa and you can just come and look at what space looks like any time you want?

哇哦，您可以随时过来看看这个空间是什么样子吗？

Not anytime you want.

不是你想要的任何时候。

Chana Joffe-Walt Because that would be ridiculous.

Chana Joffe-Walt 因为那太荒谬了。

When you drive around suburban Hartford now, occasionally you'll see a sign on someone's lawn that says "I heart magnets." Neighbors will ask, "Hey, where does your kid go on the bus every morning?" The few-minute conversation that follows is the most powerful marketing tool available.

现在，当您在哈特福德郊区开车时，偶尔会在某人的草坪上看到一个标牌，上面写着“我喜欢磁铁”。邻居会问：“嘿，你的孩子每天早上乘公共汽车去哪里？”接下来的几分钟对话是最强大的营销工具。

It's what Enid or any marketer dreams of-- a conversation where one parent goes to another, "Oh, I think I've heard of that place.

这是伊妮德或任何营销人员所梦想的——一位父母与另一位父母进行对话，“哦，我想我听说过那个地方。

Does she like it?

她喜欢吗？

Is it safe?" Neighbor to neighbor, white person to white person.

安全吗？”邻居与邻居，白人与白人。

It is the same potent tool that three decades ago helped create segregated neighborhoods, repurposed to do the exact opposite.

三十年前，这个强大的工具曾帮助创建隔离社区，但其用途却恰恰相反。

Of lot of the parents I talked to didn't know about the lawsuit or even that they were part of an integration plan.

我采访过的许多家长并不知道这起诉讼，甚至不知道他们是融合计划的一部分。

But they were like Ryan and Sarah Welcome.

但他们就像瑞安和莎拉·维尔康一样。

They considered the fact that their kid was in a diverse school a bonus.

他们认为孩子就读于多元化的学校是一个额外的好处。

It wasn't on the top of the list but it was something they liked.

它不在列表的首位，但这是他们喜欢的东西。

"Well-rounded" was a phrase I heard a lot.

“全面发展”是我经常听到的一句话。

One dad told me, "You won't believe how often my kid comes home and looks something up he heard from a friend.

一位父亲告诉我，“你不会相信我的孩子回家后经常会查找他从朋友那里听到的东西。

He's so excited by how different everyone is." And another mom told me, "I think it just gives them a deeper understanding of the world around them, which is what you hope happens in school."

他对每个人的不同感到非常兴奋。”另一位妈妈告诉我，“我认为这只会让他们对周围的世界有更深入的了解，这就是你希望在学校发生的事情。”

Often, in these conversations, parents also mentioned, like Sarah did, how different this was from their own experience in school as kids.

通常，在这些谈话中，父母也会像莎拉一样提到，这与他们小时候在学校的经历有多么不同。

Sarah and Ryan grew up in a small, white, farming community in Connecticut, not far from Hartford.

莎拉和瑞安在康涅狄格州的一个小型白人农业社区长大，距离哈特福德不远。

She says when she was a teenager, her high school visited a school near the city for a day, and she remembers it seemed like another world.

她说，当她十几岁的时候，她的高中参观了城市附近的一所学校一天，她记得那似乎是另一个世界。

To us, it felt like a massive, huge high school with lots of black kids and possibly Puerto Rican kids.

对我们来说，这感觉就像一所巨大的高中，里面有很多黑人孩子，可能还有波多黎各孩子。

I remember it being scary.

我记得它很可怕。

I remember some of us feeling scared.

我记得我们中的一些人感到害怕。

And that's weird.

这很奇怪。

And now that I think about it, that sounds so stupid-- you know-- and racist, and awful, and embarrassing.

现在我想起来，这听起来很愚蠢——你知道——而且是种族主义的，可怕的，令人尴尬的。

I feel ashamed that I ever felt that way.

我为自己曾经有过这样的感觉而感到羞愧。

But she says her kids probably won't share her ignorance.

但她说她的孩子们可能不会像她一样无知。

They have black friends and Puerto Rican friends and Hindu friends.

他们有黑人朋友、波多黎各朋友和印度教朋友。

They're learning how to interact, and play, and fight, and resolve fights with lots of different kinds of people.

他们正在学习如何与许多不同类型的人互动、玩耍、打架以及解决打架。

Again, bonus.

再次，奖金。

It came to me in a very happenstance way.

我以非常偶然的方式想到了这一点。

If I had never gone to Trinity College and didn't meet Audrey, it may have never happened.

如果我从未去过三一学院并且没有遇到奥黛丽，这可能永远不会发生。

The list of things that went into Sarah arriving at that moment with Audrey is so much longer than she knows, which is part of the plan.

莎拉与奥黛丽到达那一刻所经历的事情清单比她知道的要长得多，这是计划的一部分。

Sarah is not supposed to be able to see the enormous machinery working to make that moment possible, the years of planning, of litigation, the bussing contracts and inter-district agreements, and the maps on Enid's wall, all that is kept backstage so that what's onstage looks easy, so that Sarah can experience that exact feeling of happening into a cool thing.

莎拉不应该看到让那一刻成为可能的巨大机制，多年的计划、诉讼、公交车合同和跨区协议，以及伊妮德墙上的地图，所有这些都放在后台，以便舞台上的事情看起来很容易，以便莎拉能够体验到发生一件很酷的事情的确切感觉。

This strategy is working.

这个策略正在发挥作用。

This is how Hartford went from having 11% of Hartford kids in integrated schools in 2007 to almost half now.

这就是哈特福德从 2007 年 11% 的哈特福德孩子就读于综合学校的比例上升到现在近一半的原因。

Unlike Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Hartford has given white families a way to choose integration.

与巴尔的摩、芝加哥、底特律、费城、洛杉矶不同，哈特福德为白人家庭提供了选择融入的途径。

And many of them are choosing it.

他们中的许多人都选择了它。

And those families, those are the people Enid needs.

而那些家庭，正是伊妮德需要的人。

Right, people who we need.

对了，我们需要的人。

And we desperately need some of those families.

我们迫切需要其中一些家庭。

Hartford desperately needs those families because despite all the success the city has had, they are facing a potential crisis.

哈特福德迫切需要这些家庭，因为尽管该市取得了所有成功，但他们仍面临着潜在的危机。

The last couple years, Hartford has barely been making its quota of reduced isolation students for its magnet schools, the required number of white kids, and now also Asian kids to call a school integrated.

在过去的几年里，哈特福德几乎没有达到其磁石学校减少隔离学生的配额，即所需的白人学生数量，现在还包括亚裔孩子，称为综合学校。

And if they stop meeting the quota, they don't get money.

如果他们停止达到配额，他们就得不到钱。

If they don't get money, they can't create new schools to reach more kids.

如果他们拿不到钱，他们就无法创建新学校来接触更多的孩子。

In fact, the magnet schools that already exist will lose the money that makes them such great schools.

事实上，现有的精英学校将失去使它们成为如此优秀学校的资金。

The stars will stop shining in the planetarium.

天文馆里的星星将停止闪烁。

Enid and her team have theories about why they've stalled, including one theory Enid does not like to think about, and that is that they've maxed out.

伊妮德和她的团队对他们为何停滞不前有多种理论，其中包括伊妮德不喜欢思考的一种理论，那就是他们已经达到极限。

They may have already reached all the white families who were dissatisfied with their neighborhood schools, which, on the whole, are pretty good schools.

他们可能已经接触到了所有对附近学校不满意的白人家庭，这些学校总体来说都是不错的学校。

They may have already gotten all the white families who'd be willing to drive to the scary part of Hartford for an open house, and then who'd be willing to do what so few white families have done before them, to be the ones to bring the integration.

他们可能已经吸引了所有愿意开车去哈特福德可怕的地方参加开放日的白人家庭，然后愿意做在他们之前很少有白人家庭做过的事情，成为那些带来融合的人。

Maybe everyone who was going to tell their neighbor about their great magnet school in the city already has.

也许每个想要告诉邻居他们在城里很棒的磁石学校的人都已经这么做了。

Market saturation.

市场饱和。

If that is what's making it so hard to meet the quota recently, that could blow up the plan.

如果这就是最近难以达到配额的原因，那么计划可能会泡汤。

Enid's office is on the third floor of a state building.

伊妮德的办公室位于一栋政府大楼的三楼。

And on that side of the hall, where she is, it's all about wooing suburban families and offering treats and butterflies.

在大厅的那一边，也就是她所在的地方，一切都是为了吸引郊区家庭并提供零食和蝴蝶。

Across the hall is a place called The Regional School Choice Office.

大厅对面是一个叫做地区择校办公室的地方。

Hey, ladies.

嘿，女士们。

Chana Joffe-Walt The Regional School Choice Office is a tiny cluster of cubicles crowded with women on headsets answering the phones.

查纳·乔菲-沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt) 地区择校办公室是一个小隔间，挤满了戴着耳机接听电话的女性。

All available space is covered in forms, and brochures, and paperwork.

所有可用空间都包含表格、小册子和文件。

Anybody can call or visit the office, but mostly this side of the hall is not for the suburban parents.

任何人都可以打电话或参观办公室，但大厅的这一侧大多不适合郊区的父母。

It's for the city parents, the Hartford families.

这是为城市里的父母，哈特福德家庭准备的。

There's a lottery for a Hartford magnet school seat, and last fall, more than 4,000 Hartford students did not win that lottery.

哈特福德磁石学校席位正在进行抽奖活动，去年秋天，超过 4,000 名哈特福德学生没有中奖。

These were families who, for the most part, don't get courted.

这些家庭大部分都不会受到求爱。

They get paperwork.

他们得到文书工作。

And the majority of them get wait-listed.

他们中的大多数人都在候补名单上。

Now they're calling a lot for their wait-list numbers.

现在他们经常打电话询问等候名单上的号码。

So now they are at the point of really wanting the seat.

所以现在他们真的很想要这个席位。

When they don't realize we get a lot more applications than we do seats, parents call every day to see if their numbers have moved, and if they're still going to have that chance.

当他们没有意识到我们收到的申请数量比座位数量多得多时，家长们每天都会打电话询问他们的号码是否发生了变化，以及是否仍有机会。

So you're dealing with a lot of frustrated parents sometimes.

所以有时你会面对很多沮丧的父母。

Hartford parents right now are frustrated for the exact same reason parents were frustrated with Hartford schools in the 1980s when John Brittain sued-- their schools are inferior.

哈特福德的家长现在感到沮丧，其原因与 20 世纪 80 年代约翰·布里顿 (John Brittain) 提起诉讼时家长对哈特福德学校感到沮丧的原因完全相同——他们的学校质量较差。

Magnet school kids do great.

磁力学校的孩子们表现得很棒。

They go to integrated schools and 80% of them pass state tests.

他们就读于综合学校，其中 80% 通过州考试。

Hartford public school kids go to segregated schools.

哈特福德公立学校的孩子们去隔离学校。

Less than 40% of them pass state tests.

其中只有不到 40% 通过州考试。

Magnet school kids can explore space on the first floor of their school.

磁力学校的孩子们可以在学校一楼探索空间。

Hartford public school buildings have gotten better but they're not like that.

哈特福德公立学校的建筑已经变得更好，但事实并非如此。

For the 50% of Hartford families who can't get their kids into the beautiful, integrated magnet schools, things are exactly the same as they've always been, only worse because now there's a school with a planetarium down the block that they can't get into.

对于无法让孩子进入美丽的综合磁力学校的 50% 的哈特福德家庭来说，情况与以前完全一样，只是更糟，因为现在街区下面有一所带有天文馆的学校，他们无法进入。

That school with the planetarium, by the way, the Environmental Sciences Magnet, it used to just be Mary Hooker Elementary before integration.

顺便说一句，那所拥有天文馆的学校，环境科学磁铁，在整合之前它曾经只是玛丽胡克小学。

It was just a regular public school.

那只是一所普通的公立学校。

And back when it was a regular public school, it was almost entirely Latino.

当它还是一所普通公立学校时，它几乎全是拉丁裔学生。

There was no planetarium, no LEGO lab, or butterfly vivarium.

没有天文馆，没有乐高实验室，也没有蝴蝶动物园。

Those came when it went magnet.

当它变得磁力时，这些就来了。

Those came with the white students.

那些是和白人学生一起来的。

The argument against separate but equal was never that separate schools couldn't be equal, theoretically, just that it never, ever happens.

反对“分开但平等”的论点从来都不是说分开的学校在理论上不可能是平等的，只是这种情况永远不会发生。

One of the early civil rights leaders, Charles Thompson, wrote, "The separate school or separate anything with equal facilities is a fiction."

早期民权领袖之一查尔斯·汤普森 (Charles Thompson) 写道：“单独的学校或任何具有同等设施的单独的东西都是虚构的。”

Hartford believed that when it set up its program, that the only way to make the schools better for nonwhite kids was to bring in white kids.

哈特福德相信，当它制定计划时，让学校对非白人孩子更好的唯一方法就是引进白人孩子。

And now here they are, stuck in a very uncomfortable place.

现在他们被困在一个非常不舒服的地方。

They don't have equal schools for everybody yet.

他们还没有为所有人提供平等的学校。

Instead, what they have are excellent schools that half the city's population, almost all of them black and Hispanic, cannot access.

相反，他们拥有的是优秀的学校，但该市一半的人口（几乎全部是黑人和西班牙裔）无法进入。

They have spent decades working so hard to replace a separate but equal system, and they're still having to live with one.

他们花了几十年的时间努力更换一个独立但平等的体系，但他们仍然不得不忍受这个体系。

Which brings us back to Enid Rey.

这让我们回到伊妮德·雷伊。

Her job is to get the city unstuck.

她的工作是让这座城市摆脱困境。

Every day, she is consumed with wooing, courting, encouraging white families.

每天，她都忙于向白人家庭求爱、求爱、鼓励。

And at night, Enid goes home to her neighborhood in Hartford.

晚上，伊妮德回到哈特福德附近的家。

She's Puerto Rican.

她是波多黎各人。

She grew up in Hartford.

她在哈特福德长大。

She still lives here.

她还住在这里。

So this is a bizarre job for her, assuring white suburban families, "Don't worry.

所以这对她来说是一份奇怪的工作，向郊区白人家庭保证，“别担心。

It's safe.

很安全。

There'll be other white kids here." I'm just curious what it's like for you to be in the position of being the conduit for all of those conversations?

这里还会有其他白人孩子。”我只是好奇你作为所有这些对话的渠道是什么感觉？

It sucks!

太糟糕了！

It's very hard and it's very emotional.

这非常困难，而且非常情绪化。

I mean, it's really tough.

我的意思是，这真的很难。

Enid grabbed my microphone as she said this, which totally surprised me, because she had spent hours trying to sell me on Hartford's great schools.

伊妮德说这句话时抓住了我的麦克风，这让我非常惊讶，因为她花了几个小时试图向我推销哈特福德的优秀学校。

But she wanted to make sure I understood just how brutal this job can be.

但她想确保我明白这份工作有多么残酷。

At home, Enid's neighbors nag her.

在家里，伊妮德的邻居总是唠叨她。

"How come my son can't get into that magnet school?

“为什么我儿子进不了那所磁石学校？

Can't you help my first grader out of his failing school?" She says her husband sets a timer when she's grocery shopping.

你不能帮助我的一年级学生摆脱他那糟糕的学校吗？”她说她丈夫在她去杂货店购物时设置了一个计时器。

He sets a timer and watches it.

他设置了一个计时器并观察它。

And he will save her if she is trapped in a conversation with an upset parent, a parent who Enid can almost always sympathize with, because she knows they're trapped with bad options, in exactly the same way Enid's family was when she was growing up.

如果她陷入与心烦意乱的父母的谈话中，他会拯救她，伊妮德几乎总是可以同情这位父母，因为她知道他们陷入了糟糕的选择，就像伊妮德的家人在她成长过程中一样。

Meanwhile--

与此同时——

Some of our suburban families come because they get free preschool.

我们的一些郊区家庭来这里是因为他们可以接受免费的学前教育。

I mean, think about it.

我的意思是，想一想。

They could afford to pay, but if you get a magnet seat, you're going to get free preschool.

他们有能力支付费用，但如果你得到一个磁铁座位，你将获得免费的学前班。

And I think a factor is that in the back of their head is also, "If it doesn't work, I'll just go back to my neighborhood school." Right?

我认为一个因素是，他们的脑海里还有一个想法：“如果这不起作用，我就会回到附近的学校。”对吗？

"If this whole thing just doesn't work out for my child or I don't feel comfortable, I always have another option." Right?

“如果这整件事对我的孩子不起作用或者我感觉不舒服，我总是有另一种选择。”对吗？

It's an experiment.

这是一个实验。

Enid Rey Right.

伊妮德·雷伊 对。

And they can experiment, quite frankly.

坦率地说，他们可以进行实验。

Not so much the case for our Hartford resident families.

对于我们哈特福德居民家庭来说情况并非如此。

This is it.

就是这样。

This is their shot at quality.

这是他们对质量的追求。

Of course, they'd get another shot if more Hartford kids could be bussed to the suburbs.

当然，如果更多的哈特福德孩子可以被送到郊区，他们还有机会。

But here's the problem with that.

但这就是问题所在。

Integration is not just voluntary for white families who choose to come into the city, to the magnet schools.

对于选择进入城市、进入磁石学校的白人家庭来说，融入不仅仅是自愿的。

The suburban school districts also get to choose.

郊区学区也可以选择。

They get to choose how many city children they'll allow to be bused in to their schools.

他们可以选择允许多少城市儿童乘坐公交车去学校。

And they don't allow in so many.

而且他们不允许那么多人进来。

The last superintendent of Hartford public schools wanted to drop the whole integration thing altogether, just focus on Hartford students.

哈特福德公立学校的最后一位校长想完全放弃整个融合的事情，只关注哈特福德的学生。

Enid says she can totally understand that position.

伊妮德说她完全可以理解这个立场。

John Brittain, the man who put this whole thing in motion, concedes that 50% of Hartford kids still in inferior schools, that's bad.

推动这一切的约翰·布里顿 (John Brittain) 承认，50% 的哈特福德孩子仍在劣质学校就读，这很糟糕。

But he says they are not stalled.

但他表示，他们并没有停滞不前。

They're just in the middle.

他们就在中间。

John Brittain believes they're on a path that will get to 100% of Hartford kids in integrated magnet schools.

John Brittain 相信他们正在走上一条道路，让 100% 的哈特福德孩子进入综合磁石学校。

Here's how he imagines they'll get there.

这是他想象的他们将如何到达那里。

By the time this current generation of kids is grown, white people will no longer be the majority in this country.

当这一代孩子长大时，白人将不再是这个国家的多数。

And then white parents will want their kids in integrated schools, because that will give them the skills to thrive and compete in a more diverse society.

然后白人父母会希望他们的孩子进入融合学校，因为这将使他们具备在更加多元化的社会中茁壮成长和竞争的技能。

Whites will perceive in their self-interests that it's important for their children to grow up in an integrated setting.

白人会出于自身利益考虑，认为他们的孩子在融合的环境中成长很重要。

In other words, the pitch will shift from one that completely ignores the diversity of the schools and is instead focused on how much your kid will get to one that sells the diversity of the schools and is still focused on how much your kid will get.

换句话说，宣传方式将从完全忽视学校的多样性，而是专注于你的孩子会得到多少，转变为推销学校的多样性，但仍然关注你的孩子会得到多少。

I pointed out that there are plenty of examples of places where a white minority has not chosen to embrace diversity, but John Brittain stuck to his guns.

我指出，有很多地方白人少数群体没有选择拥抱多样性，但约翰·布里顿坚持他的立场。

I do think it's going to happen.

我确实认为这将会发生。

It probably won't happen in my lifetime at age 70, but I think we're on the road to that trajectory.

在我 70 岁的有生之年，这可能不会发生，但我认为我们正在朝着这个轨迹前进。

Ryan Welcome, the suburban dad who sent all three of his kids to the magnet school in the city, told me when they visited that school he felt like he won the lottery.

瑞安·韦尔韦尔 (Ryan Welcome) 是一位住在郊区的父亲，他将三个孩子都送到城里的精英学校，他告诉我，当他们参观那所学校时，他感觉自己中了彩票。

Ryan didn't mean anything by this, just that the school was lovely.

瑞安没有别的意思，只是觉得学校很可爱。

But of course, that is quite literally true.

但当然，这确实是真的。

His family won the lottery.

他的家人中了彩票。

John Britain's plan to scale up his vision of a completely integrated Hartford preserves that feeling, that you lucked out.

约翰·英国计划扩大他对哈特福德完全一体化的愿景，保留了那种感觉，你很幸运。

Because that is what works, and it's also what's true.

因为这才是有效的，也是正确的。

Chana Joffe-Walt.

查纳·乔夫-沃尔特。

There's a great book that tells the story of Hartford's integration plan by Susan Eden called The Children in Room E4.

苏珊·伊登 (Susan Eden) 有一本很棒的书，讲述了哈特福德融合计划的故事，书名叫《E4 室的孩子们》。

Coming up, the Obama administration admires what's being done in Hartford.

接下来，奥巴马政府对哈特福德所做的事情表示赞赏。

They say they are for more integration.

他们说他们是为了更多的融合。

They don't seem to be pushing it.

他们似乎并没有推动它。

We ask why from the man at the top.

我们向高层询问原因。

Well, not the very top-- the Secretary of Education, that's the one we talked to.

嗯，不是最高层——教育部长，那是我们交谈过的人。

That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.

稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。

It's This American Life.

这就是美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Today on our program, The Problem We All Live With Part Two.

今天我们的节目《我们共同面临的问题》第二部分。

This is our second show about school integration.

这是我们第二个关于学校融合的节目。

As we said last week, it's amazingly effective at bringing up test scores and closing the achievement gap, but it's never really talked about as a serious option for fixing schools.

正如我们上周所说，它在提高考试成绩和缩小成绩差距方面非常有效，但它从未真正被视为修复学校的一个严肃选择。

So we thought, "OK, let's talk about it here." We have arrived at Act 2 of our program.

所以我们想：“好吧，我们就在这里讨论吧。”我们已经到了计划的第二幕。

Act 2, What's it All About, Arne?

第二幕，这一切是怎么回事，阿恩？

There was this moment a few years ago that was small but telling when a woman named Pat Todd gave a speech at a conference in DC.

几年前，当一位名叫帕特·托德 (Pat Todd) 的女士在华盛顿特区的一次会议上发表演讲时，有一个虽然虽小但很有意义的时刻。

She's from one of the other very few places that runs a regional school integration program, Louisville, Kentucky, Jefferson County.

她来自肯塔基州路易斯维尔杰斐逊县，这是极少数运行区域学校一体化计划的地方之一。

They've been doing this since the 1970s.

他们从 20 世纪 70 年代就开始这么做了。

They've never abandon this, even though, she says in her speech, it doesn't get easier.

他们从未放弃这一点，尽管她在演讲中说，这并没有变得更容易。

It never does.

从来没有。

It's been decades of resistance, court cases, indifference, right up to today.

几十年来的抵抗、法庭案件、冷漠，直到今天。

And she said in her speech there was one thing that would make this a whole lot easier for her.

她在演讲中说，有一件事会让她变得更容易。

She brought it up very politely.

她非常有礼貌地提出了这件事。

I bring from Jefferson County, Kentucky an invitation.

我从肯塔基州杰斐逊县带来了一张邀请函。

Her invitation was basically saying, "Hey, bigwigs, Obama administration, Washington, we need you.

她的邀请基本上是在说：“嘿，大佬们，奥巴马政府，华盛顿，我们需要你们。

We need you out front on this.

我们需要你在这件事上站出来。

We need the big guns.

我们需要大枪。

Speak up.

说出来。

We cannot hear you down here.

我们在下面听不到你的声音。

What I really need and what my community really needs right now is for someone besides the local educators to be talking about the importance of diversity in public education, people with stature and credibility well beyond the local level.

我真正需要的以及我的社区现在真正需要的是除了当地教育工作者之外的其他人来谈论公共教育多样性的重要性，这些人的地位和信誉远远超出当地水平。

This week, Chana Joffe-Walt and Nikole Hannah Jones, who reported last week's episode, talked to the Secretary of Education Arne Duncan about the fact that the administration does not seem to be pushing this as a policy.

本周，报道了上周事件的查纳·乔夫-沃尔特和尼科尔·汉娜·琼斯与教育部长阿恩·邓肯谈论了这样一个事实，即政府似乎并没有将此作为一项政策来推动。

Hi, guys.

嗨，伙计们。

So what did he say?

那么他说了什么？

NIKOLE HANNAH JONES: What Secretary Duncan said is, "Of course the administration supports integration.

妮可·汉纳·琼斯：邓肯国务卿所说的是，“政府当然支持整合。

Integration is a good thing."

融合是一件好事。”

So it's something that's obviously been very important to many of us for many, many years, long before we ever came to Washington.

因此，这显然对我们许多人来说非常重要，很多年了，早在我们来到华盛顿之前。

We have not done enough.

我们做得还不够。

So he supports integration.

所以他支持整合。

He said lots of people in the administration also support integration and confirmed something we heard from other sources that this was really on the table, especially during the transition into the Obama administration, that lots of people were talking about integration and trying to figure out how to make it into formal policy.

他说，政府中的很多人也支持一体化，并证实了我们从其他消息来源听到的事情，即这确实是摆在桌面上的，特别是在奥巴马政府过渡期间，很多人都在谈论一体化，并试图弄清楚如何将其纳入正式政策。

Mhm.

嗯。

And then very quickly they got an opportunity, because they came out with the Race to the Top.

然后很快他们就得到了机会，因为他们推出了“力争上游”项目。

So Race to the Top was the Obama administration's first big education initiative, where they really set their agenda.

因此，“力争上游”是奥巴马政府的第一个大型教育计划，他们真正制定了自己的议程。

It was money from the Stimulus during the recession.

这是经济衰退期间刺激计划带来的钱。

And it was basically $4 billion set aside to encourage states to move in the direction that the Obama administration wanted them to.

基本上拨出 40 亿美元来鼓励各州朝着奥巴马政府希望的方向前进。

So if they increased teacher accountability, did stuff with turnaround schools, expanded Common Core, basically all these things that I'm saying.

因此，如果他们加强教师责任，对学校进行扭转，扩大共同核心，基本上就是我所说的所有这些事情。

If you've heard any of these terms, it's because of Race to the Top.

如果您听说过这些术语，那是因为“力争上游”。

Right.

对。

Chana Joffe-Walt 30 states changed their laws.

Chana Joffe-Walt 30 个州更改了法律。

And Race to the Top would have been a pretty perfect place to put integration because they didn't make anybody do anything--

力争上游本来是一个非常完美的整合场所，因为它们没有让任何人做任何事情——

They didn't force it.

他们没有强迫。

It wasn't forced integration.

这不是强制整合。

Right, it wasn't forced integration.

是的，这不是强制整合。

It was incentives.

这是激励措施。

So it was, "If you want to apply, you can, and you can move in this direction that we want you to."

所以就是，“如果你想申请，你就可以，而且你可以朝着我们希望你做的方向前进。”

OK, so you have a pro-integration administration.

好的，现在有一个支持一体化的政府。

They're trying to incentivize states to do all sorts of things.

他们试图激励各国做各种各样的事情。

Did they include it?

他们包括它吗？

No. It was not in there.

不，它不在那里。

And actually, John Brittain, who had been meeting with the administration during the transition, expected it to.

事实上，在过渡期间一直与政府会面的约翰·布里顿（John Brittain）也预料到了这一点。

And he went to read about the Race to the Top program in the Federal Register, which outlines what the Race to the Top was going to do, and he read every page.

他去读了《联邦公报》中有关“力争上游”计划的内容，其中概述了“力争上游”计划的目的，他阅读了每一页。

We didn't see any mention of school diversity.

我们没有看到任何提及学校多样性的内容。

So you're flipping through what?

那你在翻什么？

100 pages, hundreds of pages?

100页，数百页？

That's right, and all of these various grants, and you read the fine lines in these various grants, and we didn't find it.

是的，所有这些不同的资助，你读了这些不同资助中的细线，但我们没有找到它。

I felt-- I felt I was punched in the gut, and I lost my breath.

我感觉——我感觉我的内脏被重击了一拳，我失去了呼吸。

You were sitting, reading the Federal Register?

你正坐着读《联邦公报》？

Yes.

是的。

Chana Joffe-Walt And you really had thought there would be.

Chana Joffe-Walt 你真的以为会有。

That is correct.

这是正确的。

And I particularly thought that there would be because, again, in the big conference room, at DoD, Maryland Avenue, as it's called here in Washington DC, with the top deputies and the chief himself, Duncan, hearing that the Obama administration was committed to research-based policies.

我特别认为这是因为，在国防部马里兰大道（华盛顿特区这里被称为这里）的大会议室里，最高副手和局长本人邓肯听到奥巴马政府致力于基于研究的政策。

And here we are, pointing to all of the scholarly articles and journals showing the positive benefits of school integration, and yet the administration initially ignored them.

我们在这里指出了所有显示学校融合的积极好处的学术文章和期刊，但政府最初忽视了它们。

I think it would have been very difficult to get that through Congress at that point.

我认为当时要在国会获得通过是非常困难的。

Congress had to approve this, and there are other tools to try and get at this.

国会必须批准这一点，并且还有其他工具可以尝试实现这一点。

It just seemed like such a perfect place to put it in.

这似乎是一个完美的放置它的地方。

You could have just snuck it in.

你本来可以把它偷偷放进去的。

You wouldn't even have had to call it integration.

您甚至不必将其称为集成。

It could have been money for magnet schools.

这本来可以为磁石学校提供资金。

You can't sneak things in.

你不能偷偷把东西放进去。

That's not how Congress works.

国会不是这样运作的。

And you have to be very clear on this.

你必须非常清楚这一点。

And the chances of Congress approving something like that, sadly, we thought we were like basically none.

可悲的是，我们认为国会批准类似事情的机会基本上没有。

Well, we thought it would have been very, very difficult with Congress.

嗯，我们认为国会会非常非常困难。

And again, we thought there are other strategies, other vehicles to get at this.

我们再次认为还有其他策略、其他手段可以实现这一目标。

So when he's talking about other strategies, he means they are promoting integration through other means, through visiting places that are promoting integration, through helping districts figure out how to understand court rulings on integration if they want to do integration to encourage that.

因此，当他谈论其他策略时，他的意思是他们正在通过其他方式促进融合，通过访问促进融合的地方，通过帮助学区弄清楚如何理解法院对融合的裁决，如果他们想通过融合来鼓励融合的话。

But he also said, "Those students, who you're worried about in segregated schools, we're doing a ton of stuff to help those students in particular.

但他也说：“那些你在隔离学校里担心的学生，我们正在做很多事情来特别帮助这些学生。

We've put 5 billion extra dollars into schools that are the lowest performing schools.

我们已经向表现最差的学校额外投入了 50 亿美元。

Those tend to be high poverty segregated schools.

这些学校往往是高度贫困的隔离学校。

We're trying to focus on improving teachers in those schools, improving quality in those schools."

我们正在努力集中精力提高这些学校的教师水平，提高这些学校的质量。”

We do have some high poverty schools now where you have 90% graduation rates, 95% graduation rates, and 90% of those are going on to college.

我们现在确实有一些高度贫困的学校，毕业率是 90%，毕业率是 95%，其中 90% 会继续上大学。

Now, we do not have enough.

现在，我们还不够。

We have a long way to go.

我们还有很长的路要走。

There are many places where there are huge inequities in resources, and federal money can't begin to make up for the fact that so much of public schools is locally funded by property taxes, which is inherently in many places unfair and unequal, and I would say un-American.

很多地方的资源存在巨大的不平等，联邦资金无法开始弥补如此多的公立学校在当地由财产税资助的事实，这在许多地方本质上是不公平和不平等的，我想说不美国。

But you've seen massive influxes of literally a couple million dollars per school in many of these places that have led to more teachers, and more social workers, and more after-school programming, and lower class size, and that's why you're getting better results.

但你已经看到，在许多地方，每所学校投入了数百万美元，这导致了更多的教师、更多的社会工作者、更多的课外活动和更少的班级规模，这就是为什么你能取得更好的成绩。

Nikole, you've reported on this for years.

尼科尔，你多年来一直在报道此事。

What do you think of that?

你对此有何看法？

When you asked the Secretary if he saw it as separate but equal, did he agree?

当你问局长是否认为这是分开但平等的，他同意吗？

So I don't I don't know how, after all of these years, after all of these different reforms, and we have yet to be able to do it, how we continue to say that we will be able to.

所以我不知道，经过这么多年，经过所有这些不同的改革，我们还没有能力做到这一点，我们如何继续说我们能够做到。

The evidence is not there.

证据不存在。

I think there's another reason why they focus on this strategy in particular.

我认为他们特别关注这一策略还有另一个原因。

And I think it's partially just that this approach feels better.

我认为部分原因是这种方法感觉更好。

You mean, fixing segregated schools versus integrating schools?

你的意思是，修复隔离学校还是整合学校？

Versus integrating schools, because integrating schools, the very conceit of integrating schools is that you have to pay attention to race, and you have to acknowledge that you have a problem with racism.

与整合学校相比，因为整合学校，整合学校的自负就是你必须关注种族，你必须承认你有种族主义问题。

And it it's more comfortable to say that it's not an issue about racism.

说这不是种族主义问题会更舒服一些。

It's just an issue about high poverty schools that need help, and need more money, and need more resources.

这只是一个关于高度贫困学校需要帮助、需要更多资金、需要更多资源的问题。

Yeah, we like the idea that this is not a race issue.

是的，我们喜欢这不是种族问题的想法。

Yeah, or white people like the idea that it's not a race issue.

是的，或者白人喜欢这不是种族问题的想法。

Right.

对。

By "we," I'm mean I'm talking for my people.

我所说的“我们”是指我正在为我的人民说话。

Our program was produced today by Nancy Updike and Chana Joffe-Walt, with Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Stephanie Foo, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Melissa Shipp.

今天我们的节目由 Nancy Updike 和 Chana Joffe-Walt 制作，并由 Zoe Chace、Sean Cole、Stephanie Foo、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Brian Reed、Robyn Semien、Melissa Shipp 共同制作。

Julie Snyder is our editorial consultant.

朱莉·斯奈德是我们的编辑顾问。

Other editing help this week from Neil Drumming.

本周尼尔·鼓明 (Neil Drumming) 提供了其他编辑帮助。

Production help from Billy Sullivan.

比利·沙利文 (Billy Sullivan) 提供制作帮助。

Seth Lind's out operations director.

塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 出任运营总监。

Emily Condon's our production manager.

艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。

Elise Bergerson's our office manager.

埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的办公室经理。

Elna Baker scouts stories for the show.

艾尔娜·贝克为节目寻找故事。

Kimberly Henderson is her office coordinator.

金伯利亨德森是她的办公室协调员。

Music help from Damian Graf, from Rob Geddis.

达米安·格拉夫 (Damian Graf) 和罗布·格迪斯 (Rob Geddis) 提供音乐帮助。

Special thanks today to [?

今天特别感谢[?

Navaet ?] Shalom, Susan Eden, Phil Tegler, Richard Kahlenberg, Jane Holt, Marian [?

纳瓦埃特？] 沙洛姆、苏珊·伊登、菲尔·特格勒、理查德·卡伦伯格、简·霍尔特、玛丽安 [？

Walz, ?] Dana Goldstein, the Martha's Vineyard Hebrew Center, Sarah Garland, Julian [?

华尔兹，？] 达纳·戈尔茨坦，玛莎葡萄园希伯来中心，莎拉·加兰，朱利安 [？

Juman, ?] and Jack Daugherty.

朱曼，？]和杰克·多尔蒂。

Our website, thisamericanlife.org.

我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。

The American Life is delivered to public radio station by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.

《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。

Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia, who says the best way to find out what sunblock is right for you is word of mouth.

一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生，他说找出适合您的防晒霜的最佳方法是口碑传播。

Neighbor to neighbor, white person to white person.

邻居与邻居，白人与白人。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Back next week, with more stories of This American Life.

下周将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。

This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.

《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。