556: Same Bed, Different Dreams - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #556 | February 17, 2023 556: Same Bed, Different Dreams Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 556 集 | 2023 年 2 月 17 日 556：同一张床，不同的梦想 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而生，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Jill's been a flight attendant for years, does long flights to Europe and South America, where they're on the plane for 10 hours or more.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯·吉尔 (Ira Glass Jill) 担任空姐多年，经常飞往欧洲和南美的长途航班，在飞机上待上 10 个小时或更长时间。
And it's such close quarters, and customers can be so stressed out and get testy, and she and her co-workers, of course, always have to seem calm and courteous.
而且这里的空间如此之近，顾客可能会感到压力很大并变得暴躁，当然，她和她的同事必须始终表现得冷静和有礼貌。
They need to totally control the cabin.
他们需要完全控制机舱。
And at the same time give off this illusion of being servants.
同时又给人一种作为仆人的错觉。
Right.
正确的。
Jill When in reality, we're in control.
吉尔：事实上，一切都在我们的掌控之中。
It's stressful, she says.
她说，压力很大。
And it's easy for them to get on each other's nerves, like with this flight attendant who was Jill's nemesis for a while.
他们很容易让彼此心烦意乱，就像这位曾经是吉尔一段时间的宿敌的空姐一样。
She just talked a lot.
她刚刚说了很多话。
I think that's what bothered me a lot.
我想这就是让我很困扰的地方。
So during our downtime, going into the galley, sort of getting away from people, it would just be incessant talking.
所以在我们休息的时候，进入厨房，远离人群，就只是不停地说话。
And it drove me nuts.
这让我发疯。
And I think my silence would drive her nuts.
我想我的沉默会让她发疯。
So we didn't get along.
所以我们没有相处。
Now, of course, when flight attendants snipe at each other, if they're in the middle of the aisle with the beverage cart--
当然，现在，当空乘人员互相狙击时，如果他们在饮料车的过道中间——
We have to do it in a way that the passengers don't know what's happening.
我们必须以乘客不知道发生了什么的方式来做到这一点。
For example, she would say, "can you get me some more Cokes from the galley?" And I would say, "we're out of Cokes."
例如，她会说：“你能给我从厨房再给我一些可乐吗？”我会说，“我们没有可乐了。”
And to the passengers next to us, that sounds completely normal.
对于我们旁边的乘客来说，这听起来完全正常。
But she knows, and I know, that we're not out of Cokes.
但她知道，我也知道，我们还没有喝完可乐。
And she's stuck behind the beverage cart.
她被困在饮料车后面。
She physically cannot get there and get them for herself.
她身体上无法亲自到达那里并获取它们。
And so it is--
原来如此——
It's war.
这是战争。
Jill It's war.
吉尔 这是战争。
It's this tiny, little symbol of hostility wrapped in this little sentence about Coca-Cola.
这是一个关于可口可乐的小句子中包裹着的微小的敌意象征。
She might try, like, "are you sure we're out of Cokes?
她可能会尝试这样说：“你确定我们没有可乐了吗？
Because I saw some back there." And I would say, "no, we're out." She'd be powerless.
因为我在后面看到了一些。”我会说，“不，我们出去了。”她就会无能为力。
If we have to do another beverage service, she might take all the red wine.
如果我们必须再提供饮料服务，她可能会把所有的红酒都拿走。
And so I have to ask her every time for a bottle of red wine.
所以我每次都要向她要一瓶红酒。
And I have to ask her for something every time I need it.
而且每次有需要的时候我都得向她要东西。
It's these little, tiny things that you would never know.
这些都是你永远不会知道的小事。
And then about 2, 2 and 1/2 hours into these overnight flights, Jill says, it'll be time for a sleep break.
吉尔说，在这些夜间飞行大约 2、2 和 1/2 小时后，就该休息一下了。
Some planes have special seats curtained off or hidden behind doors in special compartments, or up secret flights of stairs in certain planes, there are crew bunks above the overhead bins.
有些飞机有特殊的座位，用窗帘隔开或隐藏在特殊隔间的门后，或者在某些飞机的秘密楼梯上，头顶行李箱上方有机组人员铺位。
Who knew?
谁知道？
It's a very tiny, little space, literally above the overhead bins.
这是一个非常小的空间，就在头顶行李箱的上方。
So Jill would sometimes have to go to sleep with her enemy, with the nemesis.
所以吉尔有时不得不和她的敌人、宿敌一起睡觉。
And she says that to function on the rest of the flight, they really do need to sleep, no kidding.
她说，为了在剩下的航班上正常工作，他们确实需要睡觉，这不是开玩笑。
And so they both know its truce.
所以他们都知道休战。
There is no disturbing the other person's sleep at all.
完全没有打扰对方的睡眠。
I learned to not toss and turn, not clear my throat, just be very still.
我学会了不要翻来覆去，不要清嗓子，只是保持安静。
I imagine myself like a vampire in a coffin, so that I'm not disturbing the other person, even if I hate them.
我把自己想象成棺材里的吸血鬼，这样我就不会打扰别人，即使我讨厌他们。
And then they lie there, side by side, at peace, hurdling through the air at over 500 miles an hour, each of them dreaming, presumably, very different dreams.
然后他们并排躺在那里，平静地以每小时超过 500 英里的速度在空中奔跑，每个人都在做着不同的梦。
Jill does not know what the nemesis would dream about, but she has certain dreams only when she's in the air.
吉尔不知道复仇者会梦见什么，但她只有在空中时才会做某些梦。
It's strange.
很奇怪。
I don't know if I should say this, but I do have crashing dreams on the plane.
我不知道我是否应该这么说，但我确实在飞机上做了一些破碎的梦。
It's strange.
很奇怪。
I don't have those on the ground.
我地上没有这些。
I wonder if it's the turbulence.
我想知道是否是湍流。
Ira Glass Well, today on our program, "Same Bed, Different Dreams," we have stories of enemies sleeping together or working together or just stuck together in some way with very different hopes and goals, stories of deception and star-crossed haters.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）好吧，今天在我们的节目“同一张床，不同的梦想”中，我们有敌人一起睡觉或一起工作的故事，或者只是以某种方式粘在一起的故事，但希望和目标截然不同，还有欺骗和不幸的仇恨者的故事。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, "Dream Weevil." That title's going to make more sense as this story goes on.
第一幕，“梦象鼻虫”。随着故事的继续，这个标题将会变得更有意义。
Just trust me on that.
相信我这一点。
In 1986, a man and woman ran into a US embassy in Vienna and said they needed asylum.
1986年，一对男女跑进美国驻维也纳大使馆，表示他们需要庇护。
They were from South Korea.
他们来自韩国。
And they told embassy officials this incredible story of kidnapping and intrigue, and being torn apart and thrown back together, and years of dreaming about escape from their kidnapper, while, at the same time, convincing their kidnapper that what they really wanted to do was stay with him.
他们向大使馆官员讲述了这个令人难以置信的绑架和阴谋故事，被撕碎又被扔回一起，多年来一直梦想着逃离绑架者，同时让绑架者相信他们真正想做的是和他在一起。
Nancy Updike has the story.
南希·厄普代克讲述了这个故事。
The woman who was kidnapped was a famous South Korean actress named Choi Eun-Hee.
被绑架的女子是韩国著名女演员崔银姬。
I read a book about it by a writer and film producer named Paul Fischer.
我读过作家兼电影制片人保罗·费舍尔写的一本关于这个问题的书。
He spent years researching this story.
他花了数年时间研究这个故事。
She was compared at the time to Elizabeth Taylor.
当时她被比作伊丽莎白·泰勒。
Elizabeth Taylor.
伊丽莎白·泰勒。
Imagine if Elizabeth Taylor, past her prime but still famous from all her iconic roles, had just disappeared one day.
想象一下，如果伊丽莎白·泰勒已经过了巅峰期，但仍然因她的标志性角色而闻名，有一天就消失了。
Choi was that beautiful, that much of an icon in South Korea, and she was gone.
崔女士是那么美丽，是韩国的偶像，但她却走了。
She found out pretty quickly who had arranged this.
她很快就知道这是谁安排的。
When Choi was kidnapped in 1978, she was put on a boat, and the boat went to Namp'o Harbor in North Korea.
1978年，崔女士被绑架后，她被带上一艘船，船开往朝鲜南浦港。
And she actually has a photo, which is in the book, of her very first meeting with Kim Jong-il.
事实上，她在书中有一张她第一次与金正日会面的照片。
He was there waiting for her off the boat with a photographer.
他和一名摄影师在那里等她下船。
And he had his photographer take a photo and then send it to her as a sort of--
他让他的摄影师拍了一张照片，然后把它发给她，就像——
You'll want to remember this.
你会想要记住这一点。
Paul Fischer Exactly, remember that time.
保罗·费舍尔（Paul Fischer）：没错，记得那次。
Remember that time I had you kidnapped and brought to me?
还记得那次我绑架你并把你带到我这里来吗？
And it's a terrible picture.
这是一幅可怕的画面。
And he's beaming and smiley, and she's got her face covered.
他笑容满面，而她则遮住了脸。
For years, her family and her country didn't know where she was.
多年来，她的家人和国家都不知道她在哪里。
This happened in 1978.
这件事发生在1978年。
Choi was in her 50s.
崔女士50多岁。
And her first sickening guess as to why she had been taken was that Kim Jong-il had brought her to North Korea to be a mistress for his father, the Great Leader, Kim Il-sung, who was ruling the country at the time.
她对自己被带走的第一个令人作呕的猜测是，金正日把她带到朝鲜，是为了成为当时统治该国的父亲、伟大领袖金日成的情妇。
But no, it seemed that Kim Jong-il himself was just a very big fan of Choi's movies.
但不，金正日本人似乎只是崔电影的超级粉丝。
He put her up in a fancy villa, surrounded by walls and barbed wire and armed guards.
他把她安置在一座豪华别墅里，周围环绕着墙壁、铁丝网和武装警卫。
She called it in her memoir "Las Vegas meets Vladivostok." Kim Jong-il brought her out to display at parties.
她在回忆录中称其为“拉斯维加斯遇见符拉迪沃斯托克”。金正日带她出去参加聚会。
That was Choi's life for five years, until one particular night and one special party.
这就是崔的五年生活，直到一个特别的夜晚和一个特别的聚会。
Choi had been there for a while.
崔已经在那里呆了一段时间了。
And she was standing somewhere in the center of the room.
她正站在房间中央的某个地方。
And she was used to these parties by this point.
此时她已经习惯了这些聚会。
Exactly.
确切地。
They were routine.
他们很例行公事。
She had started feeling repulsed by them.
她开始对他们感到厌恶。
People got drunk and groped women, and then they went on forever.
人们喝醉了，对女人进行猥亵，然后他们就永远这样下去了。
And somebody had already told her that this is going to be such a great evening for you.
有人已经告诉她这对你来说将是一个美好的夜晚。
And she nodded along, because she was used to hyperbole about everything.
她也点点头，因为她习惯了对任何事都夸张。
Choi had no idea that Kim Jong-il that night was planning to show off for the first time another person he had acquired, the man who had directed or produced almost all of Choi's movies, her ex-husband, Shin Sang-Ok.
崔顺实不知道金正日那天晚上正计划首次炫耀他所获得的另一个人，这个人几乎是崔顺实所有电影的导演或制片人，她的前夫申相玉。
Shin and Choi each didn't know that the other was also in the country.
申和崔都不知道对方也在国内。
Shin had been brought there the same way Choi was.
申和崔一样被带到了那里。
But he tried to escape twice, so he was thrown in a prison camp for a couple of years.
但他两次试图越狱，因此被关进战俘营几年。
The best way to describe Shin-- Steven Spielberg's a good comparison, in a sense, as well.
从某种意义上说，描述申的最佳方式——史蒂文·斯皮尔伯格也是一个很好的比较。
He made films that were very good, very commercial, very popular.
他拍的电影非常好、非常商业化、非常受欢迎。
And he also produced other people's films, had his own studio.
而且他还制作过别人的电影，有自己的工作室。
And he was the most powerful popular filmmaker in South Korea, arguably in all of Southeast Asia for most of the '60s and into the '70s.
他是韩国乃至整个东南亚最有影响力的流行电影制作人，从 60 年代到 70 年代都是如此。
And Shin, 10 days prior to this, he was still in a prison camp, got released, and for 10 days in a villa, they fattened him up, tried to restore him to health.
而申，10天前，他还在战俘营里，被释放后，在别墅里呆了10天，他们把他养肥了，试图让他恢复健康。
He arrives at the party when it's already in full flow.
当聚会已经热闹非凡时，他到达了聚会现场。
And he walks inside, and as soon as he enters there's applause.
他走进去，一进去就响起了掌声。
What an insane thing.
多么疯狂的事情啊。
10 days ago, you're in a prison camp.
10 天前，你在战俘营里。
You walk in, and you're the life of the party.
你走进来，你就是聚会的焦点。
Everyone's applauding.
大家都在鼓掌。
Exactly.
确切地。
And in the pictures, his face still looks emaciated.
而在照片中，他的脸庞看上去依然憔悴不堪。
You can tell he's just gone through something terrible.
你可以看出他刚刚经历了一些可怕的事情。
The suit doesn't fit.
西装不合身。
Now Choi doesn't see Shin come in.
现在Choi没有看到Shin进来。
She just hears people start applauding.
她只听到人们开始鼓掌。
And Choi is sort of even unfazed by this.
崔甚至对此并不担心。
Any time Kim does anything, people get up and applaud.
每当金做任何事情时，人们都会站起来鼓掌。
She didn't know why people were applauding.
她不知道为什么人们鼓掌。
She had no idea.
她不知道。
Exactly, until somebody says, "why don't you look happy?
确实如此，直到有人说：“你为什么看起来不高兴？
Look who's here." And she turns around.
看看谁来了。”她转过身来。
And it's been five years.
五年过去了。
Shin's got the marks of having been tortured in a prison camp.
申有在战俘营受过酷刑的痕迹。
She doesn't recognize him right away.
她没有立即认出他。
And from that point on, Kim Jong-il was pulling them together.
从那时起，金正日就将他们团结在一起。
And they, sort of shell shocked, hugged one another.
他们有点震惊，互相拥抱。
And then were then moved around, like blocking in a movie scene, by Kim Jong-il.
然后被金正日移动，就像电影场景中的遮挡一样。
Stand here.
站在这里。
You stand next to me.
你站在我旁边。
Smile to the cameras.
对着镜头微笑。
They were sort of the guests of honor.
他们算是贵宾。
Famous people don't get to pick their fans.
名人无法挑选自己的粉丝。
Kim Jong-il was a super fan who was also, unfortunately, the son of the all powerful leader of a totalitarian state.
金正日是一位超级粉丝，不幸的是，他也是极权国家全能领导人的儿子。
Shin and Choi had made their best movies together.
申和崔一起制作了他们最好的电影。
Kim loved their movies, and he wanted them to be a couple, just like they were in their heyday.
金喜欢他们的电影，他希望他们成为情侣，就像他们在全盛时期一样。
So he arranged it, parent trap style.
所以他安排了它，父母陷阱风格。
He told them at the party that, guess what, he had a newly remodeled villa for them that they would be living in from now on, together.
他在聚会上告诉他们，猜猜看，他为他们准备了一栋新改建的别墅，从现在起他们就住在一起。
Making a joke, I think he said something like, the newlyweds are going to want to be alone now.
开个玩笑，我想他说了类似这样的话：新婚夫妇现在想要一个人呆着。
What a weirdo.
真是个怪人啊。
Paul Fischer And had them taken to a car, and by all accounts, seemed extremely pleased, and expected them to be equally so.
保罗·费舍尔（Paul Fischer）把他们带到了一辆车上，从各方面来看，他似乎非常高兴，并希望他们也同样如此。
And it's the moment right after that when they went back to the villa, closed the bathroom door, turned the faucets on--
就在他们回到别墅，关上浴室门，打开水龙头的那一刻——
In order to talk privately, they turned the faucets on so they can whisper and actually have a private conversation.
为了私下交谈，他们打开水龙头，这样他们就可以窃窃私语，实际上进行私人谈话。
Exactly.
确切地。
And they just asked one another what had happened.
他们只是互相询问发生了什么事。
The way she describes it is sort of a lovely moment, where she asks him, what happened to you?
她描述的方式是一个可爱的时刻，她问他，你怎么了？
And he said, a lot.
他说，很多。
I'll tell you some other time.
我改天再告诉你吧。
And then he asks her, what happened to you?
然后他问她，你怎么了？
And she says, a lot.
她说，很多。
I'll tell you some other time.
我改天再告诉你吧。
And Shin kind of gingerly, again, asked her, you know, you looked very smiley and happy.
申再次小心翼翼地问她，你知道，你看起来非常微笑和快乐。
And have you been brainwashed?
还有你被洗脑了吗？
And then she made a joke about how the director can't even recognize acting anymore.
然后她就开玩笑说导演都认不演戏了。
And both of them were finally able to be genuine with someone.
他们俩终于能够对某人真诚了。
And they spent the next several hours going through everything.
他们花了接下来的几个小时来检查所有事情。
Shin and Choi made a long-term plan and a short-term plan.
申和崔制定了长期计划和短期计划。
Long-term, they were going to escape.
从长远来看，他们是要逃跑的。
But they would wait until they could do it right so they wouldn't be caught.
但他们会等到他们能做对的时候，这样他们就不会被抓住。
Their short-term plan involved a small tape recorder, which they were able to get, because one of the weird privileges of their captivity was that they were allowed to shop at a department store that sold things that were out of reach for most people in the country, like tape recorders.
他们的短期计划包括一台小型录音机，他们能够得到它，因为他们被囚禁的一个奇怪的特权是，他们被允许在一家百货商店购物，那里出售的东西是该国大多数人买不到的，比如录音机。
Kim Jong-il had long- and short-term plans of his own for them.
金正日对他们有自己的长期和短期计划。
He told them that soon he would summon them to talk about his vision for their future.
他告诉他们，很快他就会召集他们谈论他对未来的愿景。
Then seven months went by.
然后七个月过去了。
And during those months, Shin and Choi spent hours nearly every week in Kim's huge film archive.
在那几个月里，申和崔几乎每周都会花几个小时在金的庞大电影档案中。
He wanted Shin and Choi to see it and be impressed, and they were.
他希望申和崔看到它并留下深刻的印象，他们确实做到了。
Kim didn't just loved their movies.
金不仅仅喜欢他们的电影。
He loved all movies.
他喜欢所有的电影。
It was against the law for ordinary North Koreans to watch foreign films.
普通朝鲜人观看外国电影是违法的。
But Kim had set up a massive bootlegging operation running in countries all over the world so he could build up his private collection with every movie ever made, or as close as he could get.
但金已经在世界各国建立了大规模的盗版业务，这样他就可以建立自己的私人收藏，收藏有史以来制作的每一部电影，或者尽可能接近的电影。
The archive was three stories high and heavily guarded, at least two screening rooms, all for Kim only, and now for Shin and Choi.
档案馆有三层楼高，戒备森严，至少有两个放映室，全部都是为 Kim 准备的，现在是为 Shin 和 Choi 准备的。
Shin was bowled over by every detail.
申对每一个细节都感到震惊。
The way the building itself was set up to run, and with admiration over how Kim had set up his own archive, and how well everything was kept, geeking out over the air conditioning settings and how he was preserving the celluloid, and how everything was cataloged, and the staff, and then how large it was.
建筑本身的运行方式，以及金姆如何建立自己的档案馆，以及所有东西保存得多么好，令人钦佩，对空调设置以及他如何保存赛璐珞，以及所有东西如何编目，以及工作人员，以及它有多大。
How is it categorized?
它是如何分类的？
Was it by year or by genre or by director?
是按年份、类型还是导演？
It went by country first.
它首先按国家进行。
And then I think it went by year as they got them in.
然后我想随着他们的加入，时间就这样过去了。
And then there's a lovely touch where the South Korean films are in a normal air conditioning room, and then the North Korean films were in the most lavish storage and screening room in the whole building.
还有一种可爱的感觉，韩国电影在普通的空调房里，而朝鲜电影则在整栋大楼最豪华的储藏室和放映室里。
The films were dubbed into Korean after being painstakingly transcribed, sometimes by Americans.
这些电影经过精心转录（有时是由美国人）后被配音成韩语。
There was an American defector-- he was one of several, actually-- who had been there since 1965.
有一名美国叛逃者——实际上，他是其中几个——自 1965 年起就一直在那里。
And one of his jobs was transcribing American films, but just by listening, because he wasn't allowed to watch them.
他的工作之一是抄写美国电影，但只是通过聆听，因为他不被允许观看这些电影。
Yeah.
是的。
And he wouldn't know that they were films, because they gave him and the other American defectors the audio.
他不会知道它们是电影，因为它们给了他和其他美国叛逃者音频。
For some reason they chopped up the film soundtracks into different bits in the wrong order so they wouldn't--
由于某种原因，他们以错误的顺序将电影配乐切成不同的片段，这样他们就不会——
Know what they were doing?
知道他们在做什么吗？
Paul Fischer Exactly, or enjoy them.
保罗·费舍尔 没错，或者享受它们。
But he had this experience of transcribing, and then suddenly realizing, wait, this is Mary Poppins.
但他有过抄写的经历，然后突然意识到，等等，这是《欢乐满人间》。
Shin and Choi spent dozens and dozens of hours watching one movie after another in the screening rooms at the film archive and in their villa, which was also outfitted to show movies.
申和崔花了几十个小时在电影资料馆的放映室和他们的别墅里观看了一部又一部的电影，别墅也配备了放映电影的设施。
They did that for months, until finally they got word.
他们这样做了几个月，直到最后收到消息。
Kim is ready to meet with you.
金已准备好与您见面。
They went, and they brought the tape recorder.
他们去了，还带来了录音机。
And the second they walked in, Choi had the tape recorder in her purse, and she flicked it on.
他们一进门，崔就把录音机放在钱包里，她打开了它。
And I think unexpectedly, Kim Jong-il just talked at them, mostly, for two hours.
我认为出乎意料的是，金正日只是与他们交谈了两个小时。
[SPEAKING KOREAN] Paul Fischer Kim Jong-il spoke very, very fast.
[说韩语] 保罗·费舍尔·金正日语速非常非常快。
And his mind went all over the place.
他的心思到处都是。
And he had a very intimidating waiter slash bodyguard who kept walking into to refill drinks and empty ashtrays.
他有一个非常令人生畏的侍者砍人保镖，他不断地走进来补充饮料和清空烟灰缸。
Shin and Choi wanted to record Kim for two reasons.
Shin 和 Choi 想录制 Kim 有两个原因。
First, they knew they might not be able to escape.
首先，他们知道自己可能无法逃脱。
Maybe they would be killed, and their children and friends would just never know what had happened to them.
也许他们会被杀，他们的孩子和朋友永远不会知道他们发生了什么事。
A recording, if they could smuggle it out, would at least be proof of where they'd been.
如果他们能偷偷带出一份录音，至少可以证明他们去过哪里。
The second reason to record him was that they knew that Kim would insist, they say, publicly, that they had come to North Korea on their own, voluntarily.
记录他的第二个原因是，他们知道金正恩会公开坚称他们是自愿来到朝鲜的。
Shin and Choi were hoping that, in their private conversation, Kim might admit to having had them kidnapped and brought to him.
申和崔希望，在他们的私人谈话中，金可能会承认他们被绑架并带到他面前。
And he almost, almost did, by making a joke.
他差一点就做到了，因为他开了个玩笑。
In the first couple of minutes of their conversation, Kim talked about how he had brought Choi over first in order to entice Shin to North Korea.
在他们谈话的前几分钟，金谈到了他是如何先把崔带到朝鲜来吸引申来朝鲜的。
I say joke because Kim laughs as he says it.
我说笑话是因为金说的时候笑了。
And then all three of them laugh.
然后三个人都笑了。
It's tyrant management 101.
这是暴君管理101。
If he laughs, you laugh.
如果他笑，你就笑。
The rest of what Kim said in that conversation-- well, he said a lot of things.
金在那次谈话中所说的其余内容——嗯，他说了很多话。
But the main thing was, North Korean movies are bad, and I'm sick of it.
但最主要的是，朝鲜电影很糟糕，我已经厌倦了。
They were making the same film over and over again, and that there were too long and too boring, and history lessons and too melodramatic.
他们一遍又一遍地制作同一部电影，而且片子太长、太无聊，历史课也太戏剧化。
And he says there's too much crying.
他说哭得太多了。
I didn't tell anybody to put in so much crying.
我没有告诉任何人要哭得那么厉害。
Kim Jong-il told Shin and Choi that he knew he was the only person in the country who could get away with saying what he was saying.
金正日告诉申和崔，他知道他是这个国家唯一可以说出自己所说的话而不受惩罚的人。
And he told them not to repeat any of it.
他告诉他们不要再重蹈覆辙。
He said, when it comes to movies, we are in kindergarten.
他说，说到电影，我们还在幼儿园。
And other countries, like South Korea, are in college.
而其他国家，比如韩国，正在上大学。
He said, if we don't catch up in the next 10 years, our movies are going to be the worst of the worst movies in the world.
他说，如果我们在未来10年不迎头赶上，我们的电影将成为世界上最差电影中的最差。
The problem, he said, just between us, is that people in North Korea had it too easy.
他说，我们之间的问题是，朝鲜人民过得太轻松了。
They had things handed to them.
他们把东西交给了他们。
They didn't have to hustle, like Shin and Choi did.
他们不必像 Shin 和 Choi 那样忙碌。
There's a point in the tape where he tells them that-- and I think I'm going to paraphrase a bit.
磁带中有一点他告诉他们——我想我要解释一下。
But he says, there's no incentive in socialism to do any better.
但他表示，社会主义没有动力做得更好。
He says, my screenwriters, they'll write something, they'll get their rations.
他说，我的编剧们，他们会写点东西，他们会得到口粮。
The other guys make a film, they'll get their rations.
其他人拍电影，他们会得到口粮。
So they get paid no matter what, as long as they just turn out the work.
因此，只要他们完成工作，无论如何他们都会得到报酬。
Exactly, and follow orders.
准确无误，听从命令。
And he seemed very conscious that he needs someone who pushes himself more than that, who's used to having to do more than that to earn his keep.
他似乎非常清楚，他需要一个比这更能推动自己的人，他习惯于必须做更多的事情来维持生计。
Kim Jong-il never mentioned another possible reason why North Korea's movies were wooden and unambitious, like fear.
金正日从未提及朝鲜电影木讷且缺乏野心的另一个可能原因，比如恐惧。
He, Kim Jong-il, had written the book, the only book in North Korea about the right way to make movies and think about movies.
他，金正日，写了这本书，这是朝鲜唯一一本关于电影制作和思考电影的正确方法的书。
It's called On the Art of the Cinema .
这本书的名字叫《论电影艺术》。
It's still in print.
目前仍在印刷中。
Everyone involved in North Korea's film industry in the 1980s had to have been aware of the potential consequences of doing something as unpatriotic or insulting as trying to realize their own independent artistic vision.
20 世纪 80 年代参与朝鲜电影业的每个人都必须意识到，尝试实现自己独立的艺术愿景时，做出一些不爱国或侮辱性的事情可能会产生潜在后果。
Without Kim's explicit blessing, and his father's, it was better to be crappy than sorry.
如果没有金和他父亲的明确祝福，最好是蹩脚而不是抱歉。
The conversation continued.
谈话继续进行。
Shin and Choi murmured that North Korea citizens were fortunate to have a comrade leader who understood films so well.
申和崔嘀咕道，朝鲜人民很幸运，有一位如此懂电影的领导人同志。
Kim Jong-il agreed.
金正日同意了。
With his permission, the three of them got into critiquing specific films, a North Korean one called The Star of Korea , and while they were at it, a Soviet film called Mother that had a dying scene they all agreed had been atrocious.
在他的允许下，他们三人开始批评特定的电影，一部名为《韩国之星》的朝鲜电影，而在他们批评的同时，一部名为《母亲》的苏联电影，其中有一个他们都认为是残暴的垂死场景。
They were three movie lovers talking about what they loved.
他们是三个电影爱好者，谈论着他们所爱的事物。
And Kim Jong-il's big plan for Shin and Choi was that he wanted them to make North Korean movies good, so that they could compete with films coming out of the West and win awards and be shown in theaters all over the world.
金正日对申和崔的大计划是，他希望他们把朝鲜电影拍得更好，这样它们就可以与西方电影竞争并获奖并在世界各地的影院上映。
He wanted Choi to act in the movies and Shin to direct them.
他希望崔出演电影，申执导。
Shin could have his own film company, just like he used to have.
申可以拥有自己的电影公司，就像他以前那样。
Shin wanted to call the company Shin Film, a very bold request in the circumstances.
Shin想将公司命名为Shin Film，在当时的情况下这是一个非常大胆的要求。
Yeah, nothing in North Korea had been called anything other than The Worker's Paradise this or The Party this or the Supreme Leader this, or Kim Il-sung University.
是的，在朝鲜，除了“工人天堂”、“党”、“最高领袖”、“金日成大学”之外，没有任何其他名称。
So it was a big deal.
所以这是一件大事。
But it's also very telling of Shin that, even in this surreal situation, his first instinct is, OK, OK, OK, but can we give the company my name?
但这也很能说明 Shin 的情况，即使在这种超现实的情况下，他的第一直觉是，好吧，好吧，好吧，但是我们可以给公司我的名字吗？
In film noir, someone is always using someone, and often people are using each other.
在黑色电影中，总是有人在利用别人，而且人们常常互相利用。
And we don't find out until the end who gets away with what.
直到最后我们才知道谁逃脱了惩罚。
Shin and Choi knew that their only chance of escape would be to convince Kim Jong-il to let them film and work in the West.
申和崔知道他们唯一的逃脱机会就是说服金正日让他们在西方拍摄和工作。
Kim Jong-il knew that if he wanted good movies, he had to give Shin and Choi enough freedom to create them.
金正日知道，如果他想要好电影，他就必须给予申和崔足够的自由来创作它们。
So all three of them wanted to make great movies.
所以他们三个人都想拍出很棒的电影。
But--
但是——
Same bed, different dreams.
同一张床，不同的梦。
Kim Jong-il wanted the films for his own purposes.
金正日希望这些电影用于他自己的目的。
And they needed the films to get away from him.
他们需要这些电影来远离他。
And it's almost like his ambition of making films that the world will respect completely overtook any sense of logic.
这几乎就像他制作让世界尊重的电影的雄心完全超越了任何逻辑感。
So the first film Shin and Choi shot had sequences that they shot in Eastern Europe, standing in for the Hague.
因此申和崔拍摄的第一部电影中有他们在东欧拍摄的片段，代替海牙。
And they showed Kim Jong-il the film.
他们给金正日看了这部电影。
He said, this is fantastic.
他说，这太棒了。
It's like a European film.
这就像一部欧洲电影。
It's the best thing we've ever made, allowed them to start showing it.
这是我们做过的最好的事情，让他们开始展示它。
And it never crossed his mind that they had done exactly what he'd forbidden his own filmmakers to do forever for a reason.
他从来没有想到他们所做的正是他出于某种原因而永远禁止自己的电影制作人做的事情。
They'd been forbidden to show the world outside North Korea.
他们被禁止向朝鲜以外的世界展示。
They showed people things that they hadn't been able to see almost in a lifetime for some people in North Korea by 1983, 1984.
他们向人们展示了 1983 年、1984 年朝鲜一些人几乎一辈子都看不到的东西。
And the second that film started playing in cinemas in North Korea, the North Korean audiences didn't take in necessarily the higher production values.
当这部电影开始在朝鲜电影院上映时，朝鲜观众不一定会接受更高的制作价值。
All they could talk about was the first 10, 15 minutes shot on the streets of Prague where, OK, wait, the buildings look amazing.
他们所能谈论的只是前 10、15 分钟在布拉格街道上拍摄的镜头，好吧，等等，建筑物看起来棒极了。
People are walking into businesses.
人们正在走进企业。
They're all dressed differently.
他们都穿着不同的衣服。
There's cars.
有汽车。
What?
什么？
That's what really had an impact, because up until then they had been told, you are the luckiest people in the world.
这才是真正产生影响的，因为在那之前他们一直被告知，你们是世界上最幸运的人。
The Worker's Paradise is the only place in the world where people have peace and freedom.
工人天堂是世界上唯一一个人们享有和平与自由的地方。
And suddenly they saw that that wasn't true.
突然他们发现事实并非如此。
How do you know that that's what people thought?
你怎么知道人们就是这么想的？
I was lucky enough to meet and speak to people who'd escaped from North Korea who were at varying ages at the time that they were able to watch these films.
我很幸运能够见到那些逃离朝鲜的人并与他们交谈，他们当时的年龄各不相同，能够观看这些电影。
And there's another German researcher in Japan now called Johannes Schonherr who's done quite a lot of talking to defectors about the same thing.
现在在日本还有另一位德国研究人员，名叫约翰内斯·舍恩赫尔 (Johannes Schonherr)，他与叛逃者就同样的事情进行了大量讨论。
And one of the things that's fascinating is that Shin and Choi's films had a huge impact straightaway.
令人着迷的事情之一是申和崔的电影立即产生了巨大的影响。
There would have been people in their late 30s who'd never seen anything of the outside world that hadn't been filtered.
有些三十多岁的人从未见过任何未经过滤的外部世界。
But it wasn't just that people suddenly were able to see footage of the outside world.
但这不仅仅是人们突然能够看到外面世界的镜头。
But Shin and Choi made a film called Love, Love, My Love, which was literally the first love story in North Korean culture post 1945 that wasn't about love of the leader or love the party.
但申和崔制作了一部名为《爱，爱，我的爱》的电影，这实际上是 1945 年后朝鲜文化中的第一个爱情故事，它不是关于对领导人的爱或对政党的爱。
It was literally the first time people were able to go to the cinema, and see something that was about two people falling in love.
这实际上是人们第一次去电影院，看到有关两个人坠入爱河的电影。
And it was the first time teenagers had pictures on their wall of a matinee idol, of anybody other than the leaders.
这是青少年第一次在墙上挂上日场偶像的照片，而照片上的照片却是除了领袖之外的任何人。
Shin directed seven films for Kim Jong-il.
申为金正日导演了七部电影。
And then in March 1986, he and Choi went to a hotel in Vienna for some film business, managed to grab a separate taxi from their North Korean minders, sped to the US Embassy, and ran in.
然后在 1986 年 3 月，他和崔前往维也纳的一家酒店处理一些电影事务，设法从朝鲜看护人那里单独搭上一辆出租车，迅速前往美国大使馆，然后跑了进去。
They were debriefed by the CIA, and later by South Korean intelligence.
他们接受了中央情报局的询问，后来又接受了韩国情报部门的询问。
And they were interviewed by The Washington Post and other media outlets.
他们还接受了《华盛顿邮报》等媒体的采访。
And stories about North Korea are always hard to fact check.
有关朝鲜的故事总是很难核实。
For parts of Shin and Choi's story, their recollections, their interpretations are all there is.
对于申和崔故事的部分内容，他们的回忆、他们的解释就是全部。
But the movies exist.
但电影是存在的。
The recording of Kim exists.
Kim 的录音存在。
Kim Jong-il had told Shin and Choi in the recording that when people ask them why they were in North Korea, they should say freedom, for true artistic freedom.
金正日在录音中告诉申和崔，当人们问他们为什么在朝鲜时，他们应该说自由，因为真正的艺术自由。
For Shin, there was some bitter truth to that, because South Korea, at the time Shin and Choi were kidnapped, had been a military dictatorship with very heavy-handed censors.
对于申来说，这是一个痛苦的事实，因为在申和崔被绑架时，韩国是一个军事独裁国家，审查制度非常严厉。
Shin's studio had been shut down by the South Korean government in 1975.
申的工作室于 1975 年被韩国政府关闭。
His career was in ruins.
他的事业彻底毁了。
In North Korea, Shin got to make films again.
在朝鲜，申再次开始拍电影。
He wrote unabashedly in his autobiography how much he had loved making movies there.
他在自传中毫不掩饰地写下了他是多么喜欢在那里拍电影。
Shin always spoke of North Korea as the place he associated film freedom with and creative freedom with, because he could ask for anything and get it.
申总是将朝鲜视为他将电影自由和创作自由联系在一起的地方，因为他可以要求任何东西并得到它。
In one episode, he asked for a model train to blow up for a scene, and he was given a real train packed with explosives on rails to blow up if he wanted to.
在一集里，他要求用一辆模型火车来炸毁一个场景，而他得到了一辆真正的火车，铁轨上装满了炸药，如果他愿意的话，可以炸毁。
And if he asked for a wind machine, he was sent helicopters.
如果他想要一台风力机，就会给他派来直升机。
And if he wanted fake snow, everybody was flown to a mountain.
如果他想要假雪，每个人都会飞到山上。
There was no expense spared.
不遗余力。
Kim Jong-il felt like the larger than life film producer that you hear about.
金正日感觉自己就像是你听说过的一位传奇电影制片人。
And he didn't have the downside that a film producer usually has, because a film producer usually has to say no every now and then.
而且他没有电影制片人通常有的缺点，因为电影制片人通常不得不时不时地说不。
We don't have enough money.
我们没有足够的钱。
We don't have enough time.
我们没有足够的时间。
Shin and Choi had remarried in North Korea at Kim Jong-il's suggestion.
申和崔在金正日的建议下在朝鲜再婚。
And it ended up being a real marriage.
最终这成为了一场真正的婚姻。
They were together until Shin died in 2006.
他们一直在一起直到申于 2006 年去世。
They seemed to have been each other's big love in life, besides movies.
除了电影之外，他们似乎是生活中彼此的挚爱。
Although Shin loved movies more than Choi did, maybe a lot more.
尽管申比崔更热爱电影，甚至可能更多。
In their shared memoir of their time in North Korea, it goes from his voice to her voice, back and forth.
在他们共同的朝鲜时光回忆录中，内容从他的声音到她的声音，来来回回。
And kind of the second they start making films, her voice kind of disappears entirely.
当他们开始拍电影的时候，她的声音就完全消失了。
And it's all his from then on.
而从此以后，一切都是他的了。
And it's about escaping, but in equal measure it's about making the films, almost as if he's writing a memoir of his time in Hollywood or something.
这是关于逃离，但同样也是关于制作电影，几乎就像他在写一本关于他在好莱坞的时光的回忆录之类的。
Choi's 88 years old, living in South Korea.
Choi今年88岁，住在韩国。
When Paul was researching his book, he interviewed her for it.
当保罗为他的书做研究时，他采访了她。
And he asked her about Shin and the movies they made in North Korea.
他向她询问了申以及他们在朝鲜制作的电影的情况。
And when I met her and spoke to her, you could sense the impatience that if she had been able to get out of there three years earlier and not made any of the films, she would have been very happy to do so.
当我见到她并与她交谈时，你可以感觉到她的不耐烦，如果她能够早三年离开那里并且不拍任何电影，她会很高兴这样做。
And him not so much.
而他则不然。
Paul Fischer And him not so much.
保罗·费舍尔 (Paul Fischer) 而他则不然。
Even great love can't protect you from the other person wanting what they want.
即使伟大的爱也无法保护你免受其他人想要他们想要的东西的影响。
Nancy Updike is one of the producers of our show.
南希·厄普代克是我们节目的制片人之一。
Paul Fischer's book about all this is called A Kim Jong-il Production.
保罗·费舍尔（Paul Fischer）关于这一切的书名为《金正日的作品》（A Kim Jong-il Production）。
Coming up, people sharing beds-- actual beds-- with very different dreams.
接下来，人们共享床铺——真正的床铺——怀揣着截然不同的梦想。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, "Same Bed, Different Dreams." We have stories of people who are bound closely together.
今天我们的节目《同一张床，不同的梦想》。我们有关于人们紧密联系在一起的故事。
They are stuck with each other, but with very different hopes and goals.
他们彼此纠缠在一起，但有着截然不同的希望和目标。
We have arrived at Act Two, of our program, Act Two, "Smell You Later."
我们已经到了节目的第二幕，第二幕“稍后闻闻你的味道”。
There are all kinds of work situations where people very literally share an actual bed so they can do their jobs.
在各种工作环境中，人们实际上共用一张实际的床，以便他们可以完成自己的工作。
These are people who share a bed that they are not ever in at the same time.
这些人共用一张床，但他们从来没有同时睡过。
This happens in lots of places.
这种情况在很多地方都会发生。
It has different names-- shift beds, hot sheeting, hot bedding.
它有不同的名称——轮班床、热床单、热床上用品。
Flight attendants do this.
空姐就是这么做的。
The flight attendant, Jill, who you heard at the top of the program, used to sleep in an apartment in New York with bunk beds that she shared with a bunch of airline people.
空乘人员吉尔（Jill），你在节目开头听到的，过去常常睡在纽约的一套公寓里，里面有双层床，她和一群航空公司的工作人员共用一张床。
Guys who work on oil rigs and oil fields do it too.
在石油钻井平台和油田工作的人也这样做。
Basically the only rules that we had was basically we had to swap out sheets every time that we're going to go to our shift.
基本上，我们唯一的规则是每次轮班时都必须更换床单。
Swap out your sheets and put my sheets.
换掉你的床单并放上我的床单。
This guy works in Carlsbad, New Mexico.
这家伙在新墨西哥州卡尔斯巴德工作。
When he and a friend first moved there two years ago to do fracking, to save money, they rented this small RV, just like 15 feet long, one bed in it.
两年前，当他和一个朋友第一次搬到那里进行水力压裂时，为了省钱，他们租了一辆小型房车，只有15英尺长，里面有一张床。
He worked nights.
他晚上工作。
His friend worked days.
他的朋友工作了好几天。
They had a rule to always shower before getting in the bed.
他们有一条规定，上床之前一定要洗澡。
The sheets, my friend's always been real picky on that.
我的朋友对床单一直很挑剔。
He always had the color blue.
他的颜色一直是蓝色。
I always liked red sheets, something bright.
我一直喜欢红色床单，明亮的东西。
So every time that I'd leave, he always had my red sheets on.
所以每次我离开的时候，他总是给我盖上红床单。
Every time that I'd leave, I'd always put his blue sheets on.
每次我离开时，我总是给他盖上蓝色的床单。
And plus, we never got the same sheets, because we never wanted to be mixed up and stuff.
另外，我们从来没有得到相同的床单，因为我们不想混淆。
That'd be pretty messed up.
那就太乱了。
I'd be smelling him, and he'd be smelling me and stuff.
我会闻他的气味，他也会闻我的气味等等。
Migrant workers also have these shift beds in some places in farms around the country.
全国各地农场的一些地方也有农民工的轮班床。
In New York, the main agricultural product is milk.
在纽约，主要农产品是牛奶。
There are 5,000 dairy farms in the state, and lots of them operate 24/7, so shift beds are common.
该州有 5,000 个奶牛场，其中很多都 24/7 运营，因此轮班床很常见。
Stephanie Foo went to see the shift beds at one of those farms.
斯蒂芬妮·符 (Stephanie Foo) 去看了其中一个农场的轮床。
I didn't see any cows on the farm.
我在农场里没有看到任何牛。
And more surprising, I didn't smell them.
更令人惊讶的是，我没有闻到它们的味道。
Instead, there were just sweet smelling bales of hay in a field with three mobile homes on it.
相反，田野里只有一捆捆散发着香味的干草，上面还有三间活动房屋。
Mexican music was blasting out of the closest one.
墨西哥音乐从最近的音乐厅里传出。
My interpreter, Antonia, and I knock on the door.
我和我的翻译安东尼娅敲门。
And as soon as we step inside, the stench of manure is overpowering from a few mud-caked boots in the corner.
我们一走进去，角落里几只沾满泥的靴子就散发出浓浓的粪臭味。
It's a two-bedroom trailer with holes in the floor and black mold growing in the cabinets, and clutter everywhere, roaches, and jars of Nescafe and sugar and cans of beans, Coronas.
这是一辆两居室的拖车，地板上有洞，橱柜里长着黑色的霉菌，到处都是杂物，蟑螂、雀巢咖啡罐、糖和豆子罐头、科罗娜。
It's 7:00 PM, and we're there during the shift change.
现在是晚上 7:00，我们正在换班。
There are four or five guys milling around, all Mexican, all undocumented.
有四五个人在附近闲逛，他们都是墨西哥人，都没有证件。
Some are just getting home, and others, like this one guy, Jose, are just making up for work.
有些人刚刚回家，而另一些人，比如这个叫何塞的人，只是在补工作。
Jose's shy, but he smiles a lot.
何塞很害羞，但他很爱笑。
He shows Antonia and me where he sleeps.
他向安东尼娅和我展示了他睡觉的地方。
Jose lifts up the bed's mattress and a wooden plank underneath, knocking over a jar of change, and--
何塞掀起床垫和下面的木板，打翻了一罐零钱，然后——
Oh.
哦。
Are you in the bathtub?
你在浴缸里吗？
Jose Si.
何塞·西.
[SPEAKING SPANISH].
[说西班牙语]。
He joked that if he wanted to take a bath, he could just lift up his bed and get in.
他开玩笑说，如果他想洗澡，只要把床掀起来就可以了。
His bed is a wooden plank placed over the tub.
他的床是放在浴缸上方的木板。
There are a couple of pillows shoved over the faucet, so that the knobs don't turn and flood the tub while he's sleeping.
水龙头上塞了几个枕头，这样他睡觉时旋钮就不会转动，淹没浴缸。
It's happened before.
以前也发生过这样的事。
Including the bathtub bed, there are a total of seven beds in the two-bedroom mobile home.
算上浴缸床，两居室活动房屋共有七张床。
Sometimes up to 13 people live here and share the seven beds, sleeping in shifts.
有时多达 13 个人住在这里，共用七张床，轮流睡觉。
Jose explained how it works.
何塞解释了它是如何工作的。
No, there are no alarm clocks.
不，没有闹钟。
No need for them.
不需要他们。
When you get off work, you find someone who has an opposite shift from you, and you wake them up so you can take their bad.
当你下班时，你发现一个与你性格相反的人，你叫醒他们，这样你就可以接受他们的坏处。
Jose says, OK, I get here at 4:00 AM, and my friend is sleeping.
Jose 说，好的，我凌晨 4:00 到达这里，我的朋友正在睡觉。
And I tap him on his blanket, and it goes like this.
我轻拍他的毯子，事情就这样了。
[SPANISH].
[西班牙语]。
Stephanie Foo It's 5:00.
斯蒂芬妮·符 现在是 5:00。
It's 5:00.
现在是 5:00。
It's 5:00.
现在是 5:00。
And they try to go back to sleep.
他们试图回去睡觉。
Let me sleep.
让我睡吧。
And I say, it's 5:00.
我说，现在是 5:00。
It's 5:00.
现在是 5:00。
It's 5:00.
现在是 5:00。
And they say, OK, OK.
他们说，好吧，好吧。
It's 5:00.
现在是 5:00。
Then I get ready for bed.
然后我准备睡觉。
He wakes up and says, OK, see you later.
他醒了，说，好的，待会儿见。
I'll wake you later.
我稍后会叫醒你。
And does it feel strange and intimate?
是不是感觉很陌生又很亲切？
Or did it at first when you had to share a bed with somebody?
或者一开始当你不得不与某人共用一张床时这样做？
Jose says, yes, of course, yeah.
何塞说，是的，当然，是的。
You're used to coming to work.
你已经习惯了来上班。
And suddenly someone else comes and sleeps in your bed, in your blankets.
突然有人来了，睡在你的床上，睡在你的毯子里。
You should see.
你应该看看。
It's weird.
很奇怪。
You flip your pillow over each time.
每次你都会把枕头翻过来。
But you get used to it, to everyone's smells.
但你已经习惯了，习惯了每个人的气味。
We become friends.
我们成为朋友。
You know that if he showers, it's fine, but if not, I understand.
你知道如果他洗澡就没事，但如果不洗澡我也能理解。
Because sometimes you don't get back until 7:00 or 6:00, and there's no time to shower.
因为有时候你要到7:00或6:00才回来，根本就没有时间洗澡。
I'm understanding of that, and he should be too.
我能理解这一点，他也应该能理解。
It's fine.
没关系。
I mean, you get used to it, really.
我的意思是，你真的已经习惯了。
That's what everyone kept telling me, you get used to it-- to the hours, to the work, to everyone else rummaging around in your space.
这就是每个人一直告诉我的，你已经习惯了——习惯了工作时间，习惯了工作，习惯了其他人在你的空间里翻找。
You get used to it.
你会习惯的。
Jose and Antonio work seven days a week, 16 hours three days a week, eight hours the other four, no overtime.
Jose 和 Antonio 每周工作 7 天，每周 3 天工作 16 小时，另外 4 天工作 8 小时，没有加班。
I talked to a guy who's worked closely with many farms across the state, and he described the pay and living conditions at the farm we were at as, quote, "slightly below average."
我与一位与全州许多农场密切合作的人交谈过，他描述了我们所在农场的工资和生活条件，引用“略低于平均水平”。
Jose says it's not that bad.
何塞说情况并没有那么糟糕。
He says other farms he's lived at have been worse.
他说他住过的其他农场的情况更糟。
At one, the roof leaked onto the beds.
有一次，屋顶漏水到了床上。
And it was so crowded that he'd try to sleep standing up.
而且这里太拥挤了，他不得不尝试站着睡觉。
At another, he couldn't sleep, because he was afraid that a drunk, violent roommate would beat him up in the middle of the night.
还有一次，他睡不着，因为他害怕醉酒的、暴力的室友会在半夜殴打他。
Here, they get along.
在这里，他们和睦相处。
If someone wants to bring his girlfriend over, the rest of them all cram into the other bedroom, even sleep together in one bed so that guy can have a room to himself.
如果有人想带女朋友过来，其他人都挤到另一间卧室，甚至睡在一张床上，让那家伙有一个自己的房间。
But mostly, they're not too concerned about privacy.
但大多数情况下，他们不太关心隐私。
As I squeezed passed piles of other people's toiletries and clothes and sheets, and condom wrappers all over the floor, I was reminded of what a luxury it is to ever feel like you have a space that's all yours.
当我挤过地板上成堆的别人的洗漱用品、衣服、床单和避孕套包装纸时，我想起拥有一个完全属于自己的空间是多么奢侈的事情。
Here, at any given moment, somebody might be in the next room bumping the Black Eyed Peas off YouTube and singing at the top of their lungs.
在这里，在任何特定时刻，隔壁房间里都可能有人将黑眼豆豆乐队从 YouTube 上赶下来，并用尽全力唱歌。
(SINGING) Here we go.
（唱歌）我们走吧。
Here we go.
开始了。
We gonna rock, rock, rock.
我们要摇滚，摇滚，摇滚。
Easy come.
来得容易。
Easy go.
轻松出发。
This is a guy named Antonio singing.
这是一个叫安东尼奥的人在唱歌。
He got really excited at this part, because he knew the days of the week in English.
他对这部分感到非常兴奋，因为他知道英语中的星期几。
(SINGING) Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, Friday--
（唱）周一、周二、周三、周四、周五——
Well, most of the days.
嗯，大部分时间。
All this is bearable because it's temporary.
这一切都是可以忍受的，因为它是暂时的。
They do this a few years, then move home.
他们这样做了几年，然后搬回家。
And Antonio tells me he makes more in one day here than he would in a whole week in Mexico, and sends it all back.
安东尼奥告诉我，他在这里一天赚的钱比在墨西哥一整周赚的钱还多，然后把钱全部寄回来了。
One man says he actually owns his own farm in Mexico, with his own workers, and that he's working here to be able to expand it.
一名男子说，他实际上在墨西哥拥有自己的农场，有自己的工人，他在这里工作是为了扩大农场规模。
Many guys have built businesses.
许多人都创办了自己的企业。
One is putting two kids through college.
一是让两个孩子读完大学。
Jose says he bought a big house for his girlfriend in Mexico.
何塞说他在墨西哥为女友买了一栋大房子。
Another man puts it best.
另一个人说得最好。
He says, every head is its own world.
他说，每个头脑都是自己的世界。
I come for my dreams, and he comes for his.
我为我的梦想而来，他为他的梦想而来。
One of the things Antonio-- the guy who was singing-- dreams about is his bed, his future bed.
安东尼奥——那个唱歌的人——梦想的事情之一就是他的床，他未来的床。
He can picture exactly what his bedroom in Mexico will look like once he's finished building it.
他可以准确地想象出他在墨西哥的卧室建成后会是什么样子。
With a sturdy red floor, that's a color I like.
坚固的红色地板是我喜欢的颜色。
The bedrooms each have a bathroom.
每间卧室均设有浴室。
[SPANISH] with internet, [SPANISH], Netflix.
[西班牙语] 有互联网、[西班牙语]、Netflix。
What size bed do you want?
您想要什么尺寸的床？
And is it firm, or is it soft?
它是硬的还是软的？
King size, no?
特大号尺寸，不是吗？
[SPANISH].
[西班牙语]。
Stephanie Foo King sized waterbed.
Stephanie Foo 特大号水床。
It's the best, no?
这是最好的，不是吗？
That's why we're here.
这就是我们在这里的原因。
Antonio cracks another Corona.
安东尼奥打破了另一个科罗纳。
It's getting late for him.
对他来说已经晚了。
He has to get up in six hours for his shift.
他必须在六个小时后起床去值班。
I shake his hand, but before I go, I notice that I don't smell the manure anymore.
我握了握他的手，但在走之前，我注意到我再也闻不到粪便的味道了。
I haven't smelled it in a while, actually.
其实我已经有一段时间没有闻到它的味道了。
The air seems cold and fresh.
空气显得又冷又新鲜。
They're right.
他们是对的。
You really can get used to the smell.
你真的可以习惯这种气味。
Stephanie Foo is one of the producers of our program.
Stephanie Foo 是我们节目的制作人之一。
Act Three, "The Haunted Becomes the Haunter." This next story is about two women who aren't sleeping in the same bed.
第三幕，“闹鬼的人变成了闹鬼的人”。下一个故事是关于两个不睡在同一张床上的女人的。
They're kind of inhabiting the same body, in a way, with very different dreams.
在某种程度上，他们居住在同一个身体里，但有着截然不同的梦想。
Miki Meek tells what happened.
米基·米克讲述了发生的事情。
Jessamyn Lovell didn't know she had a secret doppelganger until she got a phone call.
杰萨明·洛弗尔直到接到电话才知道自己有一个秘密的分身。
Jessamyn is a photographer who teaches photography at the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque.
Jessamyn 是一位摄影师，在阿尔伯克基的新墨西哥大学教授摄影。
And one morning, she was heading out the door for work.
一天早上，她正出门上班。
And I get this call, and he identified himself as Inspector Crudo from the San Francisco Police Department Financial Crimes Unit.
我接到这个电话，他自称是旧金山警察局金融犯罪部门的克鲁多督察。
And he immediately asked me, "do you know a woman named Erin Colleen Hart?" And I said "no, and why?"
他立即问我：“你认识一个名叫艾琳·科琳·哈特的女人吗？”我说“不，为什么？”
And he said, "well, did you ever give her your identification, your New Mexico State driver's license, or any other identification?" And I said, "no, no. I don't know her." And "what is this about?" And I immediately thought of my wallet being stolen a year and a half prior at this gallery in San Francisco.
他说：“好吧，你有没有给过她你的身份证明，你的新墨西哥州驾驶执照，或者任何其他身份证明？”我说：“不，不。我不认识她。”以及“这是关于什么的？”我立即想到一年半前我的钱包在旧金山的这个画廊被偷了。
She never got it back, and assumed it was gone for good.
她再也没有拿回它，并认为它永远消失了。
But now this police inspector was telling her that a woman named Erin Hart had just been busted using Jessamyn's driver's license, trying to check into a San Francisco hotel.
但现在这位警官告诉她，一名名叫艾琳·哈特 (Erin Hart) 的女子刚刚因使用杰萨明 (Jessamyn) 的驾驶执照试图入住旧金山一家酒店而被抓获。
Then he, said, look, I'll send you a police report.
然后他说，听着，我会给你发一份警方报告。
She's in police custody right now.
她现在被警方拘留。
And she was in police custody because she had been trying to use your ID?
她被警察拘留是因为她一直试图使用你的身份证吗？
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
I don't know, I just kind of thought, that sucks that that happened, and that's that, and whatever.
我不知道，我只是想，发生的事情太糟糕了，就是这样，等等。
But then about a week after that, it became clear that Jessamyn's license had been used at more places than just the hotel.
但大约一周后，人们发现 Jessamyn 的许可证已在更多地方使用，而不仅仅是酒店。
A collections agency demanded payment from Jessamyn for $500 worth of goods from a Whole Foods store.
一家催收机构要求 Jessamyn 为 Whole Foods 商店价值 500 美元的商品付款。
Unpaid parking tickets and toll evasions also started showing up in her mailbox.
她的邮箱中也开始出现未付停车罚单和逃税罚单。
And then the rental car company, Hertz, began hounding her for thousands of dollars in charges.
然后，租车公司赫兹开始向她索要数千美元的费用。
I figured out and added it up, and it was all, like, three different cars that she had rented.
我算了一下，加起来，就像她租的三辆不同的车一样。
So one she just returned.
所以她刚回来。
Another one she had clearly damaged.
另一件她显然已经损坏了。
And another one, the boot had been put on it, and there were tickets, and whatever.
还有一个，靴子已经放好了，还有票，什么的。
I knew I had not rented these cars, and yet they would not believe me.
我知道这些车不是我租的，但他们不相信我。
[CHUCKLES] They would not believe me.
[轻笑]他们不会相信我。
She was spending all her time on the phone and email, trying to tell them and other places that she'd been a victim of identity theft.
她把所有的时间都花在电话和电子邮件上，试图告诉他们和其他地方，她是身份盗窃的受害者。
And then Jessamyn got a summons to appear in court from Alameda County Court in Oakland.
然后杰萨明收到了奥克兰阿拉米达县法院的出庭传票。
The charge against her was petty theft.
对她的指控是小偷小摸。
So I was really freaked out.
所以我真的吓坏了。
This must be connected to her, this woman, Erin Hart.
这肯定和她有关，这个女人，艾琳·哈特。
So she bought a plane ticket on a credit card and flew to Oakland.
于是她用信用卡买了一张飞往奥克兰的机票。
Once Jessamyn got there, she sat around in a courtroom all morning, waiting to be called up.
杰萨明一到那里，整个早上都坐在法庭上，等待被传唤。
I was getting more and more ramped up.
我变得越来越兴奋。
It felt like a lot of people were getting taken away.
感觉很多人都被带走了。
Until she was finally the last person in the room.
直到她终于成为房间里的最后一个人。
And then the judge asked me, "are you the one that sent this big pile of papers in to me?" And I was like, "yes.
然后法官问我：“你就是把这一大堆文件寄给我的人吗？”我当时想，“是的。
Those are all the documents." She's like, "OK.
这些就是所有文件。”她说：“好吧。
I'm going to look through them really quickly here."
我将在这里快速浏览它们。”
OK, what was in there again?
好吧，那里面又是什么？
Jessamyn Lovell All of the Hertz stuff, and then the police report, just to show, believe me, this isn't the only thing.
Jessamyn Lovell：赫兹的所有事情，然后是警方的报告，只是为了表明，相信我，这不是唯一的事情。
There's all this other stuff going on.
还有所有其他事情正在发生。
The judge dismissed the case but told Jessamyn she should get the charge expunged so it wouldn't appear on background checks, which was going to be a whole other hassle.
法官驳回了此案，但告诉 Jessamyn 她应该取消指控，这样就不会出现在背景调查中，这将是一个完全不同的麻烦。
She walked out of the courtroom, and she was still completely worked up.
她走出法庭，心情依然十分激动。
How much was this going to cost her?
这要花多少钱？
Who was this woman?
这个女人是谁？
And what else had she done posing as Jessamyn?
她冒充 Jessamyn 还做了什么？
I thought immediately, I'm going to get to the bottom of this.
我立即想，我要查清这件事的真相。
I'm going to figure this out.
我会想办法解决这个问题。
I want to know what it was she did.
我想知道她到底做了什么
I want to know how she got my ID.
我想知道她是怎么拿到我的身份证的
I wanted to find her.
我想找到她。
I wanted to find her.
我想找到她。
This is where Jessamyn's story changes from a garden variety identity theft case to something stranger.
杰萨明的故事从普通的身份盗窃案变成了奇怪的案件。
She had a photocopy of Erin Hart's driver's license in the file she took to court.
她向法庭提交的文件中有一份艾琳·哈特 (Erin Hart) 驾驶执照的复印件。
So she pulled it out and looked at the home address listed on it.
于是她把它拿出来，看了看上面列出的家庭住址。
I had enough drive, just adrenaline, that I was like, I'm going there, just like, I'm doing this thing.
我有足够的动力，只有肾上腺素，我就想，我要去那里，就像，我正在做这件事。
And what was the thing that you were thinking you were going to do?
您认为自己要做的事情是什么？
I don't know.
我不知道。
I mean, I seriously-- I wish I could tell you I had a plan and I had something I was going to say, and I just didn't.
我的意思是，我说真的——我希望我能告诉你我有一个计划，我有一些话要说，但我只是没有。
And I remember thinking, well, I want to park close enough that I can run and get into my car if I have to.
我记得当时我想，好吧，我想把车停得足够近，以便在必要时我可以跑进车里。
[LAUGHS] I'm not even kidding, I really did think that.
[笑]我不是在开玩笑，我确实这么认为。
It was this huge, huge, huge, huge, huge apartment building.
这是一座巨大、巨大、巨大、巨大、巨大的公寓楼。
And I got in.
我进去了。
Someone went in, and I just snuck in after them.
有人进去了，我就跟在他们后面偷偷溜了进去。
I'm going in.
我要进去了。
I know her apartment number.
我知道她的公寓号码。
I'm going to go in.
我要进去了。
And so I'm walking through the halls, and I'd found the apartment.
于是我穿过大厅，找到了那间公寓。
I just went up to it and knocked on it.
我只是走过去敲了敲它。
And no one answered the door.
没人应门。
And then I'm relieved.
然后我就放心了。
And I'm like, OK, well, I have to leave.
我想，好吧，我必须离开了。
And then I photographed the door, maybe one of the most boring pictures ever taken in my life.
然后我拍了那扇门，这也许是我一生中拍过的最无聊的照片之一。
I almost wanted just to have the evidence for myself that you went there, you did this.
我几乎只想为自己找到证据，证明你去过那里，你做了这件事。
Almost like, I mean, I don't want to overstate it, but like a tourist's documents.
我的意思是，我不想夸大其词，就像游客的证件一样。
I kind of felt like I needed to have this pin drop there.
我觉得我需要把这根别针放在那里。
I know it sounds crazy in hindsight.
我知道事后看来这听起来很疯狂。
It kind of does sound a little weird in hindsight.
事后看来，这听起来确实有点奇怪。
Jessamyn also went to the Hertz counter in San Francisco, where three cars were rented in her name, and the Whole Foods in Berkeley where she had a $500 debt, and Hotel Vitale.
Jessamyn 还去了旧金山的赫兹柜台（那里以她的名义租了三辆车）、伯克利的全食超市（她欠了 500 美元的债）和维塔莱酒店（Hotel Vitale）。
That's where Erin Hart got arrested trying to check in with her license.
艾琳·哈特 (Erin Hart) 正是在这里因检查驾照而被捕。
Walking in, Jessamyn saw that it was the type of hotel she'd never be able to stay at.
走进去，杰萨明发现这是她永远无法入住的类型的酒店。
And I was not prepared for how fancy this place was going to be.
我没有准备好这个地方会变得多么豪华。
Right away, coming in the door, they had wine, or they had tea.
一进门，他们就喝酒，或者喝茶。
And the hotel staff immediately asked me if they could help me.
酒店工作人员立即询问我是否可以帮助我。
And as soon as I said this woman had tried to check in here with my ID, the guy knew.
当我说这个女人试图用我的身份证在这里登记时，那家伙就知道了。
And actually, he said that usually when this happens-- and I was like, oh, this happens a lot?
事实上，他说通常当这种情况发生时——我就想，哦，这种情况经常发生吗？
And he's like, yes.
他说，是的。
And when that happens, we ask them to leave, and they leave.
当这种情况发生时，我们要求他们离开，他们就会离开。
And he said, this woman didn't leave.
他说，这个女人并没有离开。
The manager knew Erin was a fraud, because she got Jessamyn's name wrong when she checked in.
经理知道艾琳是个骗子，因为她在登记入住时弄错了杰萨米的名字。
She had a beautifully groomed Persian cat with her, and was standing in the lobby insisting that the license was hers.
她身边带着一只打扮得很漂亮的波斯猫，站在大厅里坚称许可证是她的。
That's when the manager decided to call the police.
这时经理决定报警。
So they arrested her, and they took her away.
于是他们逮捕了她，并将她带走。
And the cat was just left there with her stuff.
那只猫和她的东西就被留在那儿了。
And they were like, well, I guess we'll have to call animal humane.
他们说，好吧，我想我们必须称动物为人道。
And then she came a couple days later-- she was released-- and asked for her cat at the hotel.
几天后她来了——她被释放了——并在酒店要了她的猫。
And they said, well, I'm sorry.
他们说，好吧，我很抱歉。
We sent her to-- and she was really upset that the cat wasn't there.
我们派她去——她因为猫不在那里而感到非常沮丧。
That definitely was the first moment where I had any kind of sympathy for her.
那绝对是我第一次对她产生同情。
And they gave her the number for animal humane.
他们给了她动物人道的电话号码。
And then she left.
然后她就离开了。
Now when I went to animal humane.
现在当我谈到动物人道时。
Wait, you went to animal humane to also track down the cat?
等等，你去动物人道组织也是为了追踪那只猫吗？
Well, to see if she had been there.
好吧，看看她是否在那儿。
And nobody knew anything about her or the cat.
没有人知道关于她或那只猫的任何事情。
And so I just, OK, and I just left.
所以我只是，好吧，然后我就离开了。
And then I photographed the outside.
然后我拍了外面的照片。
So Jessamyn goes home to New Mexico.
于是杰萨明回到了新墨西哥州的家。
But she just can't let this go.
但她就是不能放过这件事。
She's still dealing with the fallout, fighting with Hertz and a few other places over bills.
她仍在应对后果，与赫兹和其他一些地方就账单问题发生争执。
And she decides to do a bunch of things that most of us would not do.
她决定做一些我们大多数人都不会做的事情。
First, Jessamyn sends a letter to Erin's address saying, basically, I know what you did, and here's what it's done to me.
首先，杰萨明给艾琳的地址发了一封信，基本上说，我知道你做了什么，这就是它对我所做的事情。
She includes an invoice for $1,200, the total cost of her round trip flight to California combined with an hourly rate for her time.
她附上了一张 1,200 美元的发票，这是她飞往加利福尼亚州的往返航班的总费用加上她的每小时费率。
And then months later, Jessamyn finds herself back in San Francisco for work.
几个月后，杰萨明发现自己回到了旧金山工作。
And she picks up Erin's trail again.
她再次发现了艾琳的踪迹。
She has a list of old addresses Erin had lived at, maybe 20 of them, that she got from a private investigator.
她有一份艾琳曾经居住过的旧地址清单，大概有 20 个，是她从私家侦探那里得到的。
And she starts going from place to place, visiting Erin's old apartments.
她开始从一个地方到另一个地方，参观艾琳的旧公寓。
At one point, Jessamyn pulls up to this gorgeous building overlooking the Bay Bridge.
有一次，杰萨米把车停在这座俯瞰海湾大桥的华丽建筑前。
At the time, Jessamyn was seven months pregnant, and she thinks, well, maybe I can use this to my advantage.
当时，Jessamyn 已经怀孕七个月了，她想，好吧，也许我可以利用这一点来发挥自己的优势。
I went to the front desk, the security officer.
我去了前台，保安人员。
And I was like, hey, as you can see, I'm pregnant.
我当时想，嘿，正如你所看到的，我怀孕了。
I really have to go to the bathroom.
我真的要去趟洗手间。
I'm looking for my cousin, Erin Hart.
我正在寻找我的表弟艾琳·哈特。
But I need to use the restroom first.
但我要先去趟洗手间。
Do you mind?
你介意吗？
And she was like, Erin Hart?
她说，艾琳·哈特？
Yeah, I know her.
是的，我认识她。
She used to live here.
她以前住在这里。
The woman actually knew her boyfriend at the time.
这个女人其实认识她当时的男朋友。
She's like, "now I don't know for sure, and it's just gossip, but I had heard that she had had several thousand dollars of his possessions or whatever that she took off with and never came back." And I was like, "oh wow.
她说，“现在我不确定，这只是八卦，但我听说她拿走了他几千美元的财产，或者她带走的任何东西，再也没有回来。”我当时想，“哦哇。
OK, jeez." You know.
好吧，天哪。”你知道。
And she's like, "well, you know Erin," or whatever.
她就像，“好吧，你认识艾琳”，或者其他什么。
And I was like, "oh yeah, totally."
我当时想，“哦，是的，完全可以。”
Erin's old boyfriend didn't live there anymore.
艾琳的旧男友不再住在那里了。
So Jessamyn took a few pictures inside the building and then moved on to the other addresses.
于是 Jessamyn 在大楼内拍了几张照片，然后前往其他地址。
All of them were dead ends.
所有这些都是死胡同。
I mean, is there any part of you that is kind of feeling like a creep?
我的意思是，你身上有没有什么地方感觉像个毛骨悚然的人？
I knew it was cra-- like, I knew that it was not healthy.
我知道这很糟糕，我知道这不健康。
I did know that.
我确实知道这一点。
But I could not let it go as just something someone did to me that I had no control over.
但我无法放手，因为有人对我做了一些我无法控制的事情。
Jessamyn hates feeling like she's lost control.
Jessamyn 讨厌失去控制的感觉。
And whenever it happens, ever since she was a teenager, she's dealt with it the same sort of way.
每当这种情况发生时，从她十几岁起，她都会以同样的方式处理。
When she was around 11, her dad abandoned the family, her mom and her three younger siblings.
当她 11 岁左右时，她的父亲抛弃了这个家庭、她的母亲和她的三个弟弟妹妹。
Then they lost their house.
然后他们失去了房子。
And for a while, they all lived in a van with her cat and dog.
有一段时间，他们和她的猫和狗一起住在一辆货车里。
Her dad, he did some pretty extreme things.
她的父亲，他做了一些非常极端的事情。
He tried to have someone come and kidnap me at my school, and then again later in a park.
他试图让人在我的学校绑架我，后来又在公园绑架我。
And my family, we ended up going for some time up to Canada so that he couldn't find us.
我的家人，我们最终去了加拿大一段时间，这样他就找不到我们了。
Later, Jessamyn's mom got really sick.
后来，Jessamyn 的妈妈病得很重。
And suddenly she found herself taking care of her entire family.
突然间，她发现自己要照顾整个家庭。
At some point, as a way to deal with all the chaos, she started taking pictures, things like an ambulance driving her mom away, screaming matches between her sisters, trash strewn all over their trailer home.
在某个时候，作为处理所有混乱的一种方式，她开始拍照，比如救护车开走了她的妈妈，她的姐妹们之间尖叫着比赛，垃圾散落在他们的拖车房里。
She'd methodically document what she was going through.
她会系统地记录她所经历的事情。
And it gave her a sense of control.
这给了她一种掌控感。
She continued to use her camera that way as an adult.
成年后她继续以这种方式使用相机。
At one point, eight years ago, she had a brief scare that reminded her of her dad, a random incident where she wondered if he was following her again.
八年前的某个时刻，她有一次短暂的恐惧，让她想起了她的父亲，这是一次偶然的事件，她想知道他是否又在跟踪她。
From that night on, I had it in my head I wanted to find him.
从那天晚上起，我就一直想找到他。
But I didn't want to find him and talk to him.
但我不想找到他并与他交谈。
I wanted to see him.
我想见他。
I wanted to first just find him.
我想先找到他。
I just wanted to know if I could find him, so I did.
我只是想知道我是否能找到他，所以我找到了。
I did a bunch of searching and background checks and Google stuff.
我做了很多搜索、背景调查和谷歌的东西。
And he was about three and a half hours north of where I lived.
他距离我住处以北约三个半小时车程。
Jessamyn was living in Oakland at the time.
Jessamyn 当时住在奥克兰。
And her dad was just north of her, living in a condo on the Mendocino coast.
她的父亲就在她的北边，住在门多西诺海岸的一套公寓里。
She started making covert trips up there.
她开始秘密前往那里。
And she never knew how to explain this to her friends.
她从来不知道如何向她的朋友解释这一点。
So she kept it simple and told them, oh, I'm going to spend the weekend with my dad, which technically was true.
所以她保持简单并告诉他们，哦，我要和我爸爸一起度过周末，这在技术上是正确的。
It's just that she did it wearing a blonde wig, and from a distance.
只是她戴着金色假发，而且是从远处做的。
Well, I had a telephoto lens and was really far away.
嗯，我有一个长焦镜头，距离真的很远。
I was like out in the woods.
我就像在树林里一样。
I could get a mile or so away if I needed to.
如果需要的话，我可以离开一英里左右。
What did you see?
你看到了什么？
Jessamyn Lovell He was on the deck.
杰萨明·洛弗尔 他在甲板上。
He was out for a walk.
他出去散步了。
He would go to the gym, taking out the trash.
他会去健身房，倒垃圾。
And he never saw you?
而他从来没有见过你？
Jessamyn Lovell No, no.
杰萨米·洛弗尔 不，不。
When you were stalking your dad, or you were following your dad?
当你跟踪你爸爸的时候，或者你在跟踪你爸爸的时候？
Observing him.
观察着他。
And so what did that feel like?
那感觉怎么样？
It felt really good to see him, and him not know I was there.
见到他感觉真的很好，而且他不知道我在那里。
Because why?
因为为什么？
Jessamyn Lovell Because I had some knowledge about who he was and what he was doing.
Jessamyn Lovell 因为我对他是谁以及他在做什么有一些了解。
It was like a one-way mirror.
它就像一面单向镜子。
I could see in, and he couldn't see me, you know.
我可以看到里面，而他却看不到我，你知道。
And it felt like I had some kind of power.
感觉就像我拥有某种力量。
I don't know much about the identity theft business.
我对身份盗窃业务了解不多。
But I'm guessing that the ideal target does not own a camera that can photograph you from a mile away.
但我猜测理想的目标不会拥有可以在一英里外拍摄你的相机。
Two years after Jessamyn got that phone call from the police, she was still trying to track Erin down.
杰萨明接到警方电话两年后，她仍在试图寻找艾琳。
And in February 2013, her private investigator let her know that he found Erin.
2013 年 2 月，她的私家侦探告诉她，他找到了艾琳。
She was back in jail and about to be released.
她又回到监狱，即将出狱。
Jessamyn went with him to a jail in downtown San Francisco.
Jessamyn 和他一起去了旧金山市中心的一所监狱。
She brought a telephoto lens and a video camera.
她带来了长焦镜头和摄像机。
And the two of them sat around in his SUV for hours, waiting.
他们两个在他的SUV里坐了几个小时，等待着。
Her PI had a contact who told him Erin might come out the back.
她的 PI 有一位联系人告诉他艾琳可能会从后面出来。
She's going to come out the back here soon.
她很快就会从后面出来。
Hopefully.
希望如此。
One by one, people were coming out.
人们一一走了出来。
And the entire time, I'm just like photographing.
自始至终，我都只是在拍照。
I had this lens pointed at the door.
我把这个镜头对准了门。
And terrified that she's not going to come out, she's not going to come out.
又怕她出不来，出不来。
We're not going to find her.
我们不会找到她的。
And we see her.
我们看到了她。
Here she comes.
她来了。
Jessamyn Lovell Here she comes.
杰萨明·洛弗尔 她来了。
Is that her?
是她吗？
[INAUDIBLE].
[听不清]。
OK, we got her.
好的，我们找到她了。
Miki Meek Erin Hart walked right past their car.
米基·米克·艾琳·哈特径直走过他们的车。
She had a couple bags hanging off her shoulder.
她肩上挂着几个包。
And she was dressed, Jessamyn thought, like she was going to a nightclub-- tight black shirt, shiny pants, and wedge boots.
杰萨明想，她的穿着就像要去夜总会一样——黑色紧身衬衫、闪亮的裤子和坡跟靴。
Immediately I thought, oh my gosh, we do kind of look similar.
我立刻想，天哪，我们看起来确实有点相似。
She was a similar build to me, which is sort of tallish, 5' 7", 5' 8", but fuller figured, wider hips.
她和我身材相似，有点高，5英尺7英寸、5英尺8英寸，但身材更丰满，臀部更宽。
And I could see that she had a roundish face, like I do.
我可以看到她和我一样有一张圆脸。
And she has this bright orange hair.
她有一头亮橙色的头发。
And I just thought of my days in my teenage years dying my hair that exact orange, this super bright orange.
我只想到我十几岁的时候把头发染成确切的橙色，这种超级亮的橙色。
And I just felt this uncanny connection to her.
我只是感觉到与她有这种不可思议的联系。
I really did.
我真的做到了。
And then from there on, for the next several hours, was just, you know, adrenaline.
从那时起，在接下来的几个小时里，只有肾上腺素。
She's on foot.
她是步行的。
She's on foot.
她是步行的。
Pete Let me call Jerel and tell him.
皮特 让我打电话给杰瑞尔并告诉他。
They had two other PIs working with them in a separate car.
他们还有另外两名 PI 在一辆单独的车里与他们一起工作。
They all trailed Erin, whose first stop was a convenience store, where she went in to buy cigarettes and a lighter.
他们都跟着艾琳，艾琳的第一站是一家便利店，她进去买了香烟和打火机。
She hung outside for a few minutes smoking, and then got on a public bus.
她在外面抽烟了几分钟，然后上了一辆公共汽车。
She's going to Goodwill.
她要去善意。
Miki Meek Erin got off right in front of a Goodwill store and walked in.
米基·米克·艾琳 (Miki Meek Erin) 在一家亲善商店前下了车，走进去。
Right away, Pete says, "jump out and go in there.
皮特说，“马上跳出去，进去。
Go after her." And I was like, "oh, should I talk to her?" You know, I'm thinking, oh, OK.
去追她吧。”我当时想，“哦，我应该和她谈谈吗？”你知道，我在想，哦，好吧。
He's like, "no, no, no. Don't talk to her.
他就像，“不，不，不。不要和她说话。
Just go in, get your photographs.
进去拍照片就可以了
Get a good look at her.
好好看看她。
Just go, go, go." And so I'm jumping out, like freaking out, like, oh my god.
就走吧，走吧，走吧。”所以我跳了出去，就像吓坏了一样，天哪。
He's just leaving me here with her.
他只是把我和她留在这里。
Like, what do I-- and then I see Nate and Jerel in there.
就像，我该怎么办——然后我看到内特和杰瑞尔在那里。
The other PIs.
其他 PI。
Jessamyn Lovell Yeah.
杰西明·洛弗尔 是的。
I'm like, OK.
我想，好吧。
So I'm looking at them for cues.
所以我正在寻找它们的线索。
And they're not remotely giving me any kind of cues.
他们并没有远程给我任何暗示。
And then I just go for it, and I go up to her, and I don't say anything to her.
然后我就直接去找她，什么也没对她说。
I just stand right across the rack of clothes in the Goodwill from her as she's going through, pulling clothes out, looking, changing her mind, very expressive.
当她走过时，我就站在善意的衣服架对面，把衣服拿出来，看着，改变她的想法，非常富有表现力。
Like, oh, no, I would never wear that.
就像，哦，不，我永远不会穿那个。
I could kind of hear in my mind what she might be thinking from her expression.
我能从她的表情中听到她心里在想什么。
And I'm at an angle where I feel like she can't really tell what I'm doing, like maybe I'm just checking my email or something, and I'm just looking at my phone.
我觉得她无法真正告诉我在做什么，就像我可能只是在检查电子邮件或其他东西，而我只是在看手机。
And I take some photos of her.
我给她拍了一些照片。
But how nervous are you?
但你有多紧张？
I mean, literally, now you're face to face.
我的意思是，从字面上看，现在你们面对面了。
I'm shaking.
我在发抖。
I'm very nervous, definitely.
我确实很紧张。
And I think there's a part of me that is still thinking, I could just talk to her right now.
我想我的一部分仍在想，我现在就可以和她谈谈。
Erin.
艾琳。
Hey, Erin.
嘿，艾琳。
Like I could just say that.
就像我可以这么说一样。
I could hear myself saying, Erin Hart, I know you probably don't recognize me.
我能听到自己说，艾琳·哈特，我知道你可能不认识我。
I know you don't know me.
我知道你不认识我。
But I am Laurel Jessamyn Lovell.
但我是劳雷尔·杰萨明·洛弗尔。
And you used my ID to do a number of things.
你用我的身份证做了很多事情。
But the power for me was in seeing her without her knowing that I was seeing her.
但对我来说，力量在于在她不知道我在见她的情况下见到她。
And then she disappears into the dressing room.
然后她消失在更衣室里。
And that's when the other PI comes over to me and says she's stealing clothes.
就在这时，另一个 PI 过来告诉我她在偷衣服。
And I was like, what?
我当时想，什么？
I just needed to get out of there.
我只需要离开那里。
I was overwhelmed.
我不知所措。
I was feeling really sad for her.
我真的为她感到难过。
And I didn't want to feel sad for her.
我不想为她感到难过。
I wanted to feel angry at her.
我想对她生气。
It was hard to maintain the anger, because she was looking at Erin and remembering things she'd done when she was young and her family was broke.
很难控制住愤怒，因为她看着艾琳，想起了她年轻时、家庭破产时所做的事情。
I had shoplifted nice cheese, or I literally stole arugula, things that I thought and associated with class, middle to upper middle class.
我在商店偷了美味的奶酪，或者我真的偷了芝麻菜，这些东西我认为与阶级、中上层中产阶级有关。
And I think that's what really was giving me this sympathy for Erin Hart was I could identify, in a way, with the desire to be someone else.
我认为这才是真正让我对艾琳·哈特产生同情的原因，因为我可以在某种程度上认同成为别人的愿望。
I could see how a path in my life could have led to my being in that moment.
我可以看到我生命中的一条道路如何导致我在那一刻的存在。
I really could.
我真的可以。
But it was, I guess, a little disappointing.
但我想，这有点令人失望。
I guess it was a little like, oh, I kind of wanted it to be like she was a criminal and did something bad to me.
我想这有点像，哦，我有点希望她是个罪犯，对我做了坏事。
And it just wasn't that.
但事实并非如此。
None of that satisfaction of I got her.
我没有给她带来任何满足感。
It was just this weird transition.
这就是这个奇怪的转变。
And anger was starting to be sort of replaced with empathy.
愤怒开始被同情所取代。
What Jessamyn did next doesn't sound empathetic at all when you first hear about it.
当你第一次听说 Jessamyn 接下来所做的事情时，听起来一点也没有同理心。
But for Jessamyn, it was the logical end of her search.
但对于 Jessamyn 来说，这是她寻找的合乎逻辑的结局。
She went through the hundreds of images she'd taken, and she put together a gallery exhibit.
她浏览了她拍摄的数百张照片，并组织了一个画廊展览。
It had surveillance shots of Erin, the court summons, police reports, bills, and pictures of places where her ID had been used.
里面有艾琳的监控录像、法庭传票、警方报告、账单以及使用她身份证的地方的照片。
She had done this once before with the surveillance photos she took of her dad.
她以前就用她父亲的监控照片做过一次这样的事。
In fact, her wallet was stolen while she was setting up that exhibit, which is what sent her down the rabbit hole of trying to find Erin in the first place.
事实上，她的钱包在她布置展览时被偷了，这就是让她一开始就陷入寻找艾琳的兔子洞的原因。
She called the new show, "Dear Erin Hart."
她称这个新节目为“亲爱的艾琳·哈特”。
And one of the items on display was a sealed letter in a Plexiglas box.
展出的其中一件物品是一封装在有机玻璃盒子里的密封信件。
She asked the people at the gallery to give it to Erin if she ever showed up there.
她请求画廊里的人如果艾琳出现在画廊里，就把它交给她。
It wasn't a dramatic letter, just a way of telling Erin that she'd been looking for her and wanted to talk.
这不是一封戏剧性的信，只是告诉艾琳她一直在找她并想谈谈。
Jessamyn didn't see putting Erin's name and photos out in public as revenge.
杰萨明并不认为公开公布艾琳的名字和照片是一种报复。
But not everyone saw it that way.
但并非所有人都这么看。
If you were a victim of identity theft, would you consider tracking down the thief and turning the tables?
如果您是身份盗窃的受害者，您会考虑追查窃贼并扭转局面吗？
In an act some have described as revenge, Lovell followed and photographed the woman who stole her wallet, and then her identity.
洛弗尔跟踪并拍摄了偷走钱包的女子的照片，随后还拍下了她的身份，这一行为被一些人描述为报复。
I reached out to Erin Hart through her probation officer to talk about all this.
我通过艾琳·哈特的缓刑官联系了她，谈论了这一切。
I sent a couple emails listing everything Jessamyn says about her.
我发了几封电子邮件，列出了 Jessamyn 所说的关于她的一切。
But Erin never got back to me.
但艾琳再也没有回复我。
So I couldn't verify whether she was responsible for bills Jessamyn got from Hertz and Whole Foods, or any of the unpaid parking tickets and tolls, or whether she shoplifted from Goodwill or stole from her boyfriend.
因此，我无法核实杰萨明是否对赫兹和全食超市的账单负有责任，或者是否有任何未付的停车罚单和通行费，或者她是否从 Goodwill 商店行窃或从男友那里偷东西。
So Erin secretly posed as Jessamyn.
所以艾琳偷偷冒充杰萨敏。
And Jessamyn secretly photographed Erin.
Jessamyn 偷拍了艾琳。
Jessamyn admits it's an uncomfortable thing that they have in common.
Jessamyn 承认他们的共同点是令人不舒服的。
Each of them is willing to invade someone else's privacy to get what they want.
他们每个人都愿意侵犯别人的隐私来得到他们想要的东西。
Miki Meek is one of the producers of our show.
米基·米克是我们节目的制作人之一。
We thought we would end today's program where we began, on an airplane.
我们原以为我们会在飞机上结束今天的节目。
At some point in putting together this week's show, it occurred to us that an overnight flight really is just like this huge bed with hundreds of people all together, dreaming different dreams.
在整理本周节目的某个时刻，我们突然意识到，夜间飞行就像一张大床，数百人聚集在一起，做着不同的梦。
And we asked people on two different flights like this to tell us their dreams, and their daydreams, and their hopes and dreams.
我们要求乘坐这样两个不同航班的人们告诉我们他们的梦想，他们的白日梦，以及他们的希望和梦想。
One of our staff was actually on a red eye flight herself and got on the plane's PA system to explain the premise.
我们的一名工作人员实际上自己也在乘坐红眼航班，并利用飞机的广播系统解释了这一情况。
May I have your attention, please, ladies and gentlemen?
女士们、先生们，请您注意一下吗？
My name is Stephanie Foo.
我叫斯蒂芬妮·符。
Somehow, being on the PA system, she started talking like a flight attendant.
不知何故，在公共广播系统中，她开始像空姐一样说话。
David Weinberg and Jessica Ament recorded people as well.
大卫·温伯格 (David Weinberg) 和杰西卡·阿门特 (Jessica Ament) 也对人物进行了录音。
Here are some of them.
以下是其中一些。
I was dreaming about old fashioned TV antennas.
我梦想着老式电视天线。
And then at one point, I felt like I was shaking.
然后有一次，我感觉自己在发抖。
And I was sure it was because the plane was shaking.
我确信这是因为飞机在摇晃。
But I was trying to adjust the antenna.
但我正在尝试调整天线。
I was dreaming about I was in a hot air balloon.
我梦见我在热气球里。
And I was yelling for my dog, hey, Katie, I'm up here.
我对我的狗大喊，嘿，凯蒂，我在这儿。
Sitting there, semi-lucid, I was thinking of the horned puffins swimming underwater, and how the little bubbles come out of their feathers when they're swimming.
我坐在那儿，神志不清，想着在水下游泳的角海雀，以及它们游泳时羽毛中冒出的小气泡。
And then I thought of them as going along in space and creating stars, and then diving into the center of the galaxy.
然后我认为它们在太空中飞行并创造恒星，然后潜入银河系中心。
Were you medicated at all?
你到底有没有吃药？
Man No, not at all.
男人 不，一点也不。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
I had a total nightmare.
我做了一场噩梦。
I was backing down a hill out of a garage with a friend in a VW bus.
我和一位朋友乘坐一辆大众巴士从车库倒车下山。
And we lost control of it and went down the hill.
我们失去了控制，下了山。
And my friend turned to me and said, you know, I will never forgive you for this.
我的朋友转向我说，你知道，我永远不会原谅你。
Everybody says, why would you want to go to New York?
每个人都说，你为什么想去纽约？
Ew, it's so big.
呃，这么大了。
And why?
为什么？
You know, and I'm like, because you see all these things on television.
你知道，我想，因为你在电视上看到了所有这些事情。
I've always wanted to experience a cab ride in New York City.
我一直想在纽约体验一下乘坐出租车的体验。
We're going to do it all.
我们将完成这一切。
We're going to do it all.
我们将完成这一切。
My daughter's about to have a baby.
我女儿马上要生孩子了。
So I don't know if dream's exactly the right word, but a lot of hopes.
所以我不知道“梦想”这个词是否准确，但有很多希望。
It's her first baby, my first grandbaby.
这是她的第一个孩子，也是我的第一个孙子。
Just to put it simply, I definitely didn't live up to my responsibility as her father.
简单来说，我绝对没有尽到作为她父亲的责任。
And I had not been a regular part of her life up until she was nine.
直到她九岁之前，我都没有成为她生活中的常客。
I blew it.
我搞砸了。
So I'm definitely not going to make the same mistakes that I made with her.
所以我绝对不会再犯和她一样的错误。
I feel like I've been given a second chance.
我觉得我得到了第二次机会。
[MUSIC - "SAME BED, DIFFERENT DREAMS," BY JOHN HOWARD]
[音乐 - “同一张床，不同的梦想”，作者：约翰·霍华德]
Credits Ira Glass Our program was produced today by Zoe Chace and me with Sean Cole, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Brian Reed, Joe Richman, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
鸣谢 Ira Glass 我们今天的节目由 Zoe Chace 和我与 Sean Cole、Stephanie Foo、Chana Joffe-Walt、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Brian Reed、Joe Richman、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Editing help from Joel Lovell.
乔尔·洛弗尔 (Joel Lovell) 的编辑帮助。
Production help from Simon Adler.
西蒙·阿德勒 (Simon Adler) 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our production manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson's our office manager.
埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的办公室经理。
Elna Baker scouts stories for our show.
艾尔娜·贝克为我们的节目寻找故事。
Research help from Michelle Harris and Christopher Swetala.
米歇尔·哈里斯和克里斯托弗·斯韦塔拉的研究帮助。
Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddis.
Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddis 提供音乐帮助。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia, who, of course, stopped by the office.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生，他当然也来了我们的办公室。
He's wearing the same outfit today he wears every single day.
他今天穿的衣服和他每天穿的衣服一样。
Tight black shirt, shiny pants, wedge boots.
黑色紧身衬衫，闪亮的裤子，坡跟靴。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of this American life.
下周我们将带来更多有关美国生活的故事。
[MUSIC - "ONLY IN MY DREAMS," BY DEBBIE GIBSON]
[音乐 - “仅在我的梦中”，黛比·吉布森创作]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。