554: Not It! - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #554 | April 10, 2015 554: Not It!
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 554 集 | 2015 年 4 月 10 日 554：不是！
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Adriana was talking to a homeless guy near her neighborhood in Chicago.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯·阿德里安娜正在芝加哥她家附近与一个无家可归的人交谈。
And at some point, they started talking about, you know, his life on the street, why he was out there begging for money.
在某个时候，他们开始谈论他在街上的生活，以及他为什么要在那里乞讨钱。
He straight up told me, I do it to pay for my heroin addiction.
他直截了当地告诉我，我这样做是为了偿还我的海洛因毒瘾。
Which, you know, not the typical answer.
你知道，这不是典型的答案。
And then he tells her this story.
然后他给她讲了这个故事。
He's from Puerto Rico, and he was flown to Chicago for rehab years ago.
他来自波多黎各，几年前被空运到芝加哥进行康复治疗。
But then after three days, he quit rehab.
但三天后，他退出了康复中心。
And since then, he's been living on the streets.
从那时起，他就一直流落街头。
It's been five years.
五年过去了。
Now, Adriana is the editor of a newspaper-- a bilingual newspaper called The Gate that comes out in a mostly Mexican neighborhood called Back of the Yards.
现在，阿德里亚娜是一份报纸的编辑，这是一份名为《The Gate》的双语报纸，该报纸在一个名为“Back of the Yards”的墨西哥社区出版。
And in her interviews, just going around the neighborhood, talking to people about what's going on, people started mentioning there are all these Puerto Rican drug addicts who come to the neighborhood for treatment, quit treatment, and then just stay, homeless.
在她的采访中，只要走遍附近，与人们谈论正在发生的事情，人们就开始提到所有这些波多黎各吸毒者来到附近接受治疗，放弃治疗，然后无家可归。
And then she realized, oh, wait a second.
然后她意识到，哦，等一下。
She knew these guys.
她认识这些人。
She'd been seeing some of them for years selling lotions and socks on the sidewalk.
多年来她一直看到他们中的一些人在人行道上卖乳液和袜子。
Yeah they were walking back and forth on 47th Street all the time.
是的，他们一直在 47 街来回走动。
And so I just started stopping people on the street.
所以我开始在街上阻止人们。
Any street person with a Puerto Rican accent.
任何带有波多黎各口音的街头行人。
And she heard the same weird story over and over.
她一遍又一遍地听到同样奇怪的故事。
They were flown here from Puerto Rico for rehab.
他们从波多黎各空运到这里进行康复治疗。
They quit rehab and ended up on the street.
他们退出戒毒所并最终流落街头。
She writes and edits so much about the neighborhood, but this was happening right under her nose all this time?
她写了很多关于这个社区的文章和编辑，但这件事却一直在她眼皮子底下发生？
And in a period of about four months I talked to at least 23 people, just kind of like approaching people on the street.
在大约四个月的时间里，我与至少 23 个人交谈过，就像在街上接近人们一样。
Wait.
等待。
So are you just running down the street here?
那么你只是在街上跑吗？
Yeah, I was running after these two guys I saw on Ashland and 48th, hoping that they were Puerto Rican.
是的，我在追赶在阿什兰和 48 街看到的两个人，希望他们是波多黎各人。
And their names were Hector and Jonathan.
他们的名字是赫克托和乔纳森。
And they were telling me that they came from Puerto Rico.
他们告诉我他们来自波多黎各。
They were told that they were going to find a great place here in Chicago with medicine, with treatment, doctors, even a pool.
他们被告知，他们将在芝加哥找到一个有药物、治疗、医生，甚至游泳池的好地方。
And when they got here, there was no detox.
当他们到达这里时，还没有戒毒。
There was no medicine or anything.
没有药什么的。
This is Hector.
这是赫克托。
And then this guy, Jonathan, he said that the municipal government in Puerto Rico had bought a one-way ticket for him to come to Chicago.
然后这个人，乔纳森，他说波多黎各市政府给他买了一张单程票让他来芝加哥。
Wait.
等待。
The government itself?
政府本身？
Adriana Cardona-maguigad Yeah, the municipal government in Puerto Rico.
Adriana Cardona-maguigad 是的，波多黎各市政府。
And here in Chicago-- Ira Glass Wait, wait, wait.
而在芝加哥——艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）等等，等等，等等。
Basically, they're saying like, you need treatment, but we're not going to give it.
基本上，他们的意思是，你需要治疗，但我们不会提供治疗。
We're just going to send you to Chicago.
我们正要送你去芝加哥。
Yeah.
是的。
I mean, I was shocked.
我的意思是，我很震惊。
I couldn't believe it.
我简直不敢相信。
So I asked him again.
于是我又问他。
Did the municipality pay for your ticket?
市政府支付了你的票吗？
Si.
斯。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Ira Glass So the details of the story that Adriana kept hearing from these Puerto Rican drug users were crazy.
[西班牙语] Ira Glass 因此，阿德里亚娜从这些波多黎各吸毒者那里听到的故事细节非常疯狂。
Several guys told her that it was the police who drove them to the airport in Puerto Rico.
几个人告诉她，是警察开车送他们去波多黎各机场的。
It was the police who helped arrange for their one-way tickets.
警察帮他们买了单程票。
Not just one, but lots of guys were told that there would be a swimming pool, that the facilities in the United States were going to be clean and beautiful with doctors and nurses.
不只是一个人，很多人都被告知将会有一个游泳池，美国的设施将会干净漂亮，有医生和护士。
And then when they arrived in Chicago, they were taken to these places-- and there were a bunch of them-- that were basically just, like, flop houses, open 24 hours a day with group therapy going till late at night, sometimes 10 or 13 hours straight.
然后当他们到达芝加哥时，他们被带到这些地方——而且有很多这样的地方——基本上就是像廉价房屋一样，每天 24 小时开放，团体治疗持续到深夜，有时连续 10 或 13 个小时。
The therapy was really just basically, like, AA meetings led by former addicts who did very un-AA things, like yell at them and berate them.
这种疗法实际上基本上就是，就像由前瘾君子主持的 AA 会议一样，他们做了非常不 AA 的事情，比如对他们大喊大叫并斥责他们。
When the guys would go through detox, because there was no medicine or methadone or professional staff, they were sometimes given folk remedies, like an onion to bite on, or alcohol would be poured in their belly buttons.
当这些人进行戒毒时，由于没有药物、美沙酮或专业人员，他们有时会得到民间疗法，比如咬洋葱，或者将酒精倒在肚脐上。
And after a while, they'd leave without much cash, no way to get home.
过了一段时间，他们就离开了，没有太多现金，也没有办法回家。
When I was talking to Hector and Jonathan, they were saying, our families have no money.
当我与赫克托和乔纳森交谈时，他们说，我们的家庭没有钱。
They can't afford a plane ticket.
他们买不起机票。
And sometimes, actually, from other people I heard that their families sometimes don't believe them, either.
事实上，有时我从其他人那里听说他们的家人有时也不相信他们。
They really don't believe them, or they don't believe them anymore.
他们真的不相信他们，或者说他们不再相信他们了。
I mean, we're talking about people that have addiction problems.
我的意思是，我们谈论的是有成瘾问题的人。
So basically, they're stranded in Chicago.
所以基本上，他们被困在芝加哥。
They don't speak English.
他们不会说英语。
They're in this place they've never been before.
他们来到了这个他们以前从未去过的地方。
They're drug addicts.
他们是吸毒者。
And then also they're from a tropical island and they're in the middle of winter in Chicago.
而且他们也来自一个热带岛屿，现在正值芝加哥的隆冬。
Yeah.
是的。
And that's something that also some of them told me.
他们中的一些人也告诉过我这一点。
Like, they don't have the proper clothing.
比如，他们没有合适的衣服。
They don't know how to survive the winter.
他们不知道如何度过冬天。
Adriana got curious about the rehab places that these men were talking about.
阿德里安娜对这些人谈论的康复中心感到好奇。
She'd never noticed them before, but now she started seeing them everywhere, all over the city.
她以前从未注意到它们，但现在她开始在整个城市随处可见它们。
Just asking people and driving around, she found 14.
她开车四处询问，结果找到了 14 个。
But when she searched city and state records and did Freedom of Information requests to see if these places got city funding or were registered or licensed in any way, just if there was any information on them at all, there's nothing.
但当她搜索城市和州记录，并提出信息自由请求，查看这些地方是否获得城市资助或以任何方式注册或许可时，即使有任何关于它们的信息，也没有任何信息。
They were totally off the grid.
他们完全脱离了电网。
The authorities have no idea that they are there.
当局并不知道他们在那里。
I talked to several city agencies with the Department of Buildings, the Department of Public Health, the Department of Support Services.
我与建筑部、公共卫生部、支持服务部等多个城市机构进行了交谈。
And I mean, they just didn't even know what I was talking-- they didn't even want to comment because they had no idea that this was going on.
我的意思是，他们甚至不知道我在说什么——他们甚至不想发表评论，因为他们不知道发生了什么事。
In Illinois, treatment services for drug addiction have to be licensed by a state agency, especially if they're residential-- if people are living there.
在伊利诺伊州，毒瘾治疗服务必须获得州机构的许可，特别是如果是住宅区——如果有人住在那里的话。
Adriana told the agency what she was finding.
阿德里安娜告诉该机构她的发现。
They said, we do not know what you're talking about.
他们说，我们不知道你在说什么。
We don't know about these treatment houses.
我们不了解这些治疗室。
We don't know about people being flown here from Puerto Rico?
我们不知道有人从波多黎各飞到这里吗？
If the men Adriana was talking to on the street were telling the truth, this was very strange.
如果阿德里安娜在街上与男人交谈的人说的是实话，那就很奇怪了。
It meant that government officials in Puerto Rico were sending addicts to Chicago for treatment, but the places they were sending them to cannot offer treatment under Illinois law because they're not licensed for it.
这意味着波多黎各政府官员将吸毒者送往芝加哥接受治疗，但根据伊利诺伊州法律，他们送往的地方不能提供治疗，因为他们没有获得治疗许可。
Why would they be doing that?
他们为什么要这么做？
Did they know the places were unlicensed?
他们知道这些地方没有许可证吗？
Was somebody getting rich off this, there or here?
那里或这里有人靠这个致富了吗？
Was it some kind of scam?
这是某种骗局吗？
For example, is anybody getting their IDs and selling them in the black market?
例如，是否有人获取他们的身份证并在黑市上出售？
That's one thing that a lot of guys kept telling me.
这是很多人一直告诉我的一件事。
They ask us to turn in our IDs.
他们要求我们交出身份证。
And when we walked out, they didn't give it back to us.
当我们走出去时，他们没有把它还给我们。
Is anybody making money out of this?
有人靠这个赚钱吗？
She talked to a case manager who works with injection drug users in Chicago.
她与芝加哥一位负责注射吸毒者工作的案件经理进行了交谈。
And then he went around and did his own informal survey and found 93 guys like this-- guys who were flown in from Puerto Rico with promises of rehab, who skipped rehab.
然后他四处走动，做了自己的非正式调查，发现了 93 个这样的人——他们从波多黎各飞来，承诺进行康复治疗，但他们跳过了康复治疗。
Adriana also found a researcher in Puerto Rico name Rafael Torruella, who wrote a dissertation about drug users being flown off the island to unlicensed facilities.
阿德里安娜还找到了波多黎各一位名叫拉斐尔·托鲁埃拉（Rafael Torruella）的研究人员，他写了一篇关于吸毒者被空运到无证设施的论文。
He told her it's not just happening in Chicago.
他告诉她这不仅仅发生在芝加哥。
Different municipalities ship, send, relocate, however we want to call it, drug users from Puerto Rico to different sides of the United States.
不同的城市将吸毒者从波多黎各运送、发送、重新安置（无论我们如何称呼）到美国的不同地区。
We know that from Fajardo, they would send to Philadelphia.
我们知道他们会从法哈多发送到费城。
We know that from Barceloneta, Vega Baja, y Vega Alta, Dorado, they would send to New York City.
我们知道，他们会从 Barceloneta、Vega Baja、y Vega Alta、Dorado 发送到纽约市。
But there's also New Jersey.
但还有新泽西州。
There's Florida.
有佛罗里达州。
There's South Carolina, Wisconsin, Boston.
有南卡罗来纳州、威斯康星州、波士顿。
The more you ask, the more you see that this has been happening for a long time.
你问得越多，你就越发现这种情况已经发生了很长时间。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life .
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, "Not It!" Stories where people are facing something difficult and they declare, no. Someone else can handle it.
今天我们的节目《不是这样！》人们面临困难但他们宣称“不”的故事。其他人可以处理它。
Let's just send this one elsewhere.
我们把这个发送到别处吧。
This is not my problem, not right now.
这不是我的问题，不是现在。
We have three stories for you including, later in the show, a group of high school students dealing with the collateral damage from a joke-- yes, a joke, and not a joke that any of them told.
我们为您准备了三个故事，其中包括在节目后期，一群高中生处理一个笑话带来的附带损害——是的，一个笑话，而不是他们中任何一个人讲过的笑话。
It was a joke told on television 15 years before.
这是15年前电视上讲的一个笑话。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
We are continuing right now in Act One of our show.
我们现在正在继续我们节目的第一幕。
Act One, "Como Se Dice, 'Not It'?"
第一幕，“Como Se Dice，‘不是’？”
So most of the Puerto Rican addicts that Adriana Cordona-Maguigad met on the street have been sent to a treatment center called Segunda Vida, Second Life.
因此，阿德里亚娜·科尔多纳-马吉加德在街上遇到的大多数波多黎各瘾君子都被送往名为“第二人生”的治疗中心。
She decided she had to visit and see it for herself.
她决定亲自去看看。
She had the address, 50th and Ashland.
她有地址，阿什兰街 50 号。
But when she went by, she couldn't see a sign or anything.
但当她经过时，却看不到任何标志或任何东西。
All I saw was a little corner store, a cell phone shop, a parking lot, and then a gray brick building, until someone told me, just go, look up to the second floor.
我看到的只是街角的一个小商店，一个手机店，一个停车场，然后是一座灰砖楼，直到有人告诉我，走吧，抬头看看二楼。
You'll see in the window-- in the top window, you'll see a sign.
你会在窗口中看到——在顶部窗口中，你会看到一个标志。
And I saw the sign.
我看到了这个标志。
It is super small.
它超级小。
There's a little green logo with two As for Alcoholics Anonymous.
有一个绿色的小标志，上面有两个“戒酒互诫协会”。
Adriana called AA, and they said they had nothing to do with this place.
阿德里安娜打电话给 AA，他们说他们与这个地方无关。
And in fact, they don't run any kind of residential treatment facilities at all.
事实上，他们根本不经营任何类型的住宅治疗设施。
So she tried to get inside.
于是她试图进去。
At Segunda Vida, they wouldn't let me go past the top of the staircase.
在Segunda Vida，他们不让我经过楼梯顶部。
I called.
我打了电话。
I went back in person many times.
我亲自回去过很多次。
And each time I went, I asked to speak with the person in charge, but they would always tell me to go back on a different day.
每次去，我都要求和负责人说话，但他们总是告诉我改天再去。
Could you see inside?
你能看到里面吗？
Adriana Cardona-maguigad Yeah.
阿德里亚娜·卡多纳-马吉加德 是的。
At the top of the staircase, you find kind of like an open room.
在楼梯的顶部，你会发现有点像一个开放的房间。
And there is a painting on the wall that says, Segunda Vida.
墙上有一幅画，上面写着“Segunda Vida”。
And I saw just men walking back and forth, sipping coffee and smoking cigarettes.
我看到只有男人来回走动，喝着咖啡，抽烟。
And actually, I went to another group.
事实上，我去了另一个小组。
I went to El Grito Desesperado, The Desperate Scream.
我去了《El Grito Desesperado》，《绝望的尖叫》。
And they have the phone number--
他们有电话号码——
Wait, wait, wait.
等等，等等，等等。
They called their rehab group The Desperate Scream?
他们称他们的康复小组为“绝望尖叫”？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, I was shocked, as well.
是的，我也很震惊。
It's like the name of a horror film or something.
就像恐怖片的名字什么的。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass Desperate Scream.
艾拉·格拉斯绝望的尖叫。
And now coming out, Desperate Scream 2 .
现在，《绝望尖叫2》即将上映。
There is a Desperate Scream 2.
还有《绝望的尖叫2》。
It's actually further east.
其实是更东边的地方。
Wait.
等待。
No way.
决不。
Really?
真的吗？
Adriana Cardona-maguigad So I went to El Grito Desesperado, The Desperate Scream, on a Saturday evening.
Adriana Cardona-maguigad 因此，周六晚上我去了 El Grito Desesperado，《绝望的尖叫》。
And the cigarette smoke was overwhelming.
而且香烟的烟雾很浓。
And it was really dirty.
而且真的很脏。
It was, like, dusty.
它就像灰尘一样。
And someone was giving testimony really loud.
有人大声作证。
And some people were kind of not paying attention.
有些人有点不注意。
They were talking.
他们正在说话。
People kept coming back and forth to buy cigarettes in, like, a small little counter in the back.
人们不断地来来回回，在后面的一个小柜台里买香烟。
It seemed very unorganized.
看起来非常无组织。
Somebody gave a very personal testimony.
有人给出了非常个人的证词。
A man who looked like he just came from the shower walked through the room, she says.
她说，一个看起来像是刚洗完澡的男人走过房间。
His hair was wet.
他的头发湿了。
He had a towel over his shoulder.
他肩上搭着一条毛巾。
Another man was asleep in a cot on the side.
另一名男子在旁边的小床上睡着了。
There was a lot of cursing in the testimony, which surprised her, a lot of crude language, and berating themselves.
证词里有很多咒骂，让她很惊讶，有很多粗俗的语言，还有对自己的斥责。
Like she'd been told, it was not a normal AA meeting.
就像她被告知的那样，这不是一次普通的 AA 会议。
When I was looking into these places, I was still meeting new people on the street.
当我研究这些地方时，我仍然在街上遇到新的人。
And one day I met this man, Manuel.
有一天我遇到了这个人，曼努埃尔。
Manuel is not his real name.
曼努埃尔不是他的真名。
He asked Adriana that she not use his real name here on the radio.
他要求阿德里安娜不要在广播中使用他的真名。
He was squatting by the door of a local supermarket looking up.
他蹲在当地一家超市门口向上看。
And he was asking customers for spare change.
他还向顾客索要零钱。
And when I asked him, like, how long have you been here, he'd just arrived from Puerto Rico two weeks ago.
当我问他，你来这里多久了，他两周前刚从波多黎各抵达。
He seemed totally shocked and lost.
他似乎完全震惊和失落。
The other men I've talked to, they've been here for months and years.
与我交谈过的其他人，他们已经在这里呆了几个月甚至几年了。
But with Manuel, he was just starting out.
但对于曼努埃尔来说，他才刚刚开始。
He had no idea of what to do or where to go.
他不知道该做什么或去哪里。
So Manuel told me that he also came to Segunda Vida, but he walked out after a few days, and he really wants to go back to the island.
所以曼努埃尔告诉我，他也来了Segunda Vida，但是几天后他就走了，他真的很想回岛上。
But the problem is that the people at Segunda Vida kept his documents.
但问题是，Segunda Vida 的人保留了他的文件。
So I told him, I'll go with him to get them.
所以我告诉他，我会和他一起去拿它们。
Where are you guys?
你们在哪里？
Adriana Cardona-maguigad So basically, we're right outside of Segunda Vida.
Adriana Cardona-maguigad 所以基本上，我们就在 Segunda Vida 外面。
This is last summer.
这是去年夏天的事。
So after knocking on the door several times, Manuel starts walking up the stairway saying that he left some documents there and that he's been talking to someone who keeps telling him, go back on a different day and then a different day.
因此，在敲了几次门之后，曼努埃尔开始走上楼梯，说他在那里留下了一些文件，而且他一直在和一个人说话，那个人一直告诉他，改天再回去。
Well, I asked a couple of colleagues.
嗯，我问了几个同事。
One of them is a big, tall guy, just in case.
其中一个是个又大又高的家伙，以防万一。
I was coming in with my equipment to confront these people.
我带着我的装备进来对抗这些人。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Adriana Cardona-maguigad There is a man from Segunda Vida, and he sees me coming in with a microphone.
[说西班牙语] Adriana Cardona-maguigad 有一个来自 Segunda Vida 的人，他看到我带着麦克风进来。
He immediately calls someone for help and says, someone is recording.
他立即打电话求救，说有人在录音。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Man 2 Yeah, what's going on, guys?
[说西班牙语] Man 2 是的，发生了什么事，伙计们？
So Manuel keeps saying, I need my documents, but they keep telling us that we need to wait outside.
所以曼努埃尔一直说，我需要我的文件，但他们一直告诉我们需要在外面等候。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Adriana Cardona-maguigad I keep telling them that I want to talk to the head of the program.
[说西班牙语] Adriana Cardona-maguigad 我一直告诉他们我想和项目负责人谈谈。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Adriana Cardona-maguigad I need to speak with someone about the program.
[说西班牙语] Adriana Cardona-maguigad 我需要与某人讨论该计划。
But again, they keep telling me to leave, to wait outside, that there is no one here, that there is no head of the program.
但他们再次告诉我离开，在外面等，这里没有人，也没有项目负责人。
But I need to speak with someone-- the person in charge of this program.
但我需要和这个项目的负责人谈谈。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Adriana Cardona-maguigad Why not?
[西班牙语] Adriana Cardona-maguigad 为什么不呢？
I felt like, no. You cannot just be telling me that no one is in charge when you just had these men here who just walked out.
我感觉，不。当这些人刚刚离开时，你不能只是告诉我没有人负责。
You're keeping his documents.
你保留着他的文件。
I just felt like they were not making sense.
我只是觉得他们没有道理。
I felt like everyone's giving me the run-around, like no one is responsible for anything.
我觉得每个人都在逃避我，好像没有人对任何事情负责。
We'll be waiting outside for his documents.
我们会在外面等他的文件。
Yeah, so we all agreed to wait outside, but I ended up staying in.
是的，所以我们都同意在外面等，但我最终留在了里面。
That's when someone kind of came, pushed through the crowd, and came with a white envelope and gave Manuel his documents.
就在这时，有人走过来，挤过人群，拿着一个白色信封，递给曼努埃尔他的文件。
No, make sure those are your documents.
不，请确保这些是您的文件。
[SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语]
So I looked through the envelope and I found Manuel's birth certificate, his ID, and his medical records, where I also found that he was HIV positive.
于是我翻了一遍信封，找到了曼努埃尔的出生证明、身份证件和医疗记录，我还发现他的艾滋病毒呈阳性。
Which he knew, right?
他知道，对吧？
Adriana Cardona-maguigad Oh, yeah.
阿德里亚娜·卡多纳-马吉加德 哦，是的。
Yeah, he knew.
是的，他知道。
But I was just really upset.
但我真的很沮丧。
Like, why would you send someone who has medical needs away from where he can find services?
例如，为什么您要将有医疗需求的人送出他可以找到服务的地方？
I mean, we're talking about someone who needs medicine, who needs treatment.
我的意思是，我们谈论的是需要药物、需要治疗的人。
Back in Puerto Rico, he was getting medicine to manage his HIV.
回到波多黎各后，他正在接受治疗艾滋病毒的药物。
Here in the States, at Segunda Vida, they weren't providing that.
在美国，在 Segunda Vida，他们没有提供这一点。
A week after forcing her way up the stairs to Segunda Vida, Adriana was surprised to get a call from a guy who said he was one of the founders of Segunda Vida.
在强行爬上 Segunda Vida 的楼梯一周后，阿德里安娜惊讶地接到一个自称是 Segunda Vida 创始人之一的人打来的电话。
His name's Efren Moreno, and he agreed to come to her office for an interview.
他的名字叫埃弗伦·莫雷诺，他同意来她的办公室接受采访。
He showed up in jeans and T-shirt with one of the guys who had actually tried to kick Adriana out of Segunda Vida the week before.
他穿着牛仔裤和T恤，和一周前试图将阿德里亚娜踢出乙级联赛的人一起出现。
They wouldn't let Adriana record, but she took notes.
他们不让阿德里安娜录音，但她做了笔记。
Efren Moreno told her that he is a former addict.
艾弗伦·莫雷诺告诉她，他以前是个瘾君子。
In fact, he'd gone to a group in Milwaukee like Segunda Vida that was open 24 hours called El Ultimo Paso, The Last Step.
事实上，他参加过密尔沃基的一个团体，比如 Segunda Vida，该团体 24 小时开放，名为 El Ultimo Paso，The Last Step。
Then he moved to Chicago and he started to Segunda Vida.
然后他搬到了芝加哥并开始了Segunda Vida。
He said, sure, at Segunda Vida they do take the guys' IDs, and they usually keep them in somebody's house.
他说，当然，在Segunda Vida，他们确实拿走了球员的身份证，而且通常把它们放在某人的家里。
But he said that's for safekeeping.
但他说这是为了安全起见。
In the past at Segunda Vida, he said, some have been stolen.
他说，过去在Segunda Vida，有些被盗了。
He confirmed that yes, they have no doctors, no medicine, that when people go through detox, they basically use folk remedies, and he confirmed they are totally unlicensed.
他证实，是的，他们没有医生，没有药物，当人们进行排毒时，他们基本上使用民间疗法，他证实他们完全没有执照。
He said, the government doesn't know we're here.
他说，政府不知道我们在这里。
The government doesn't give us any help.
政府不给我们任何帮助。
And actually, they sound like they're proud of the fact that they're running this group on their own with donations, with their own efforts.
事实上，他们听起来似乎为自己通过捐款和自己的努力独自运营这个小组而感到自豪。
Adriana, did you get any sense of if he was making a lot of money off this?
阿德里安娜，你知道他是否靠这个赚了很多钱吗？
You know, I looked into it, and it didn't really seem like he is a rich guy making tons of money.
你知道，我调查了一下，他看起来并不是一个赚了很多钱的富人。
In fact, yeah, it didn't seem like he was actually benefiting or financially benefiting from this.
事实上，是的，他似乎并没有真正从中受益或在经济上受益。
By this point, Adriana had heard about how many of these groups make their money.
至此，阿德里安娜已经听说了有多少这样的团体赚钱了。
She'd been told that in Chicago addicts live in these groups for free, with free room and board, for three months.
她被告知，在芝加哥，吸毒者可以免费住在这些团体中，并享受免费的食宿三个月。
Then after that, they have to pay $50 to $75 a week, which, you know, is cheap, considering that they're getting meals.
此后，他们每周必须支付 50 至 75 美元，考虑到他们要吃饭，这很便宜。
Efren Moreno confirmed that that's how it works at Segunda Vida.
埃弗伦·莫雷诺证实，这就是 Segunda Vida 的运作方式。
The scam-iest thing Adriana had heard about the finances of these groups was that some guys told her that they were taken to get Link cards, which is government assistance for food.
阿德里安娜听到的关于这些团体财务状况的最骗局是，一些人告诉她，他们被带去领取链接卡，这是政府对食物的援助。
And then they'd have to give the cards to the rehab place, which would use them to buy food for everybody who was living there.
然后他们必须将这些卡交给康复中心，康复中心将用它们为住在那里的每个人购买食物。
Moreno told her that he's against that, that he didn't want his participants to get any government assistance, that he wanted them to go out and earn money.
莫雷诺告诉她，他反对这样做，他不希望他的参与者获得任何政府援助，他希望他们出去赚钱。
After having this conversation, Adriana wondered if these groups were some kind of evil ripoff of disadvantaged drug users and their families.
经过这次谈话后，阿德里安娜想知道这些团体是否是对弱势吸毒者及其家人的某种邪恶盗窃。
Moreno told her that these 24-hour groups started in Mexico, and they spread north years ago with a mission that was idealistic.
莫雷诺告诉她，这些 24 小时组织始于墨西哥，几年前他们带着理想主义的使命向北传播。
Did talking to him change how you saw the groups?
与他交谈是否改变了你对团体的看法？
Not entirely.
不完全是。
It made me realize that he seemed to be someone who wanted to be part of the solution, that he wanted to bring services to those who were not able to get rehab services out there.
这让我意识到他似乎是一个想成为解决方案一部分的人，他想为那些无法获得康复服务的人提供服务。
Like he seemed sincere?
他看上去很真诚？
Adriana Cardona-maguigad Yeah, that he seemed sincere.
Adriana Cardona-maguigad 是的，他看起来很真诚。
But at the same time-- and he even said-- each group has its own rules.
但与此同时——他甚至说——每个团体都有自己的规则。
And because there is no oversight, it's really hard to know what are those other groups doing.
而且因为没有监督，所以很难知道其他团体在做什么。
Did you ask him about these guys who get sent up from Puerto Rico and then end up out on the street?
你有没有问过他关于那些从波多黎各送来然后流落街头的人的事？
Yeah, and I also asked the other man that he brought with him.
是的，我还问了他带来的另一个人。
Basically, they actually do outreach in Puerto Rico to try to get people to come to their place.
基本上，他们实际上在波多黎各进行外展活动，试图让人们来到他们的地方。
They actively recruit people from Puerto Rico.
他们积极从波多黎各招募人员。
The fact that they end up on the street, Efren Moreno told her, that's because they're weak.
艾弗伦·莫雷诺告诉她，他们最终流落街头，那是因为他们很弱。
They don't really want to get clean.
他们并不是真的想变得干净。
By this point, Adriana had figured out about as much as she could in Chicago.
至此，阿德里安娜已经尽可能了解了芝加哥的情况。
It was obvious what she needed to do next.
很明显她接下来需要做什么。
I got on a plane.
我上了飞机。
Flight Attendant Welcome to San Juan, Puerto Rico, where the local time is 2:50.
空乘人员 欢迎来到波多黎各圣胡安，当地时间为 2:50。
Well, I talked to a lot of people.
嗯，我和很多人谈过。
I talked to municipal authorities, local police in different municipalities.
我与不同城市的市政当局和当地警察进行了交谈。
I even talked to the governor of Puerto Rico.
我什至与波多黎各总督交谈过。
Wow.
哇。
Adriana Cardona-maguigad Yeah.
阿德里亚娜·卡多纳-马吉加德 是的。
They all say, yes, we do this.
他们都说，是的，我们这样做。
They're completely open about sending users off the island.
他们对于将用户送离岛完全持开放态度。
Wait.
等待。
But do they know that these are unlicensed places?
但他们知道这些都是无证场所吗？
Or do they think they're sending people to legitimate rehab facilities?
或者他们认为他们正在将人们送往合法的康复机构？
No, they don't know that these places are unlicensed.
不，他们不知道这些地方是无证的。
They assumed that they're licensed.
他们以为自己已获得许可。
I don't think they even questioned the fact that they could be unlicensed.
我认为他们甚至没有质疑过他们可能没有执照的事实。
The list of people who assumed that they were sending people to licensed facilities is long, and it includes four police officers in the municipality of Caguas, the mayor and police commissioner of Juncos, a police officer from Juncos, and another from Utuado, health department officials, and a few people involved in a program called De Vuelta a la Vida, Return to Life.
认为他们将人员送往有执照的设施的人员名单很长，其中包括卡瓜斯市的四名警察、洪科斯市的市长兼警察局长、洪科斯市的一名警察和乌图阿多的另一名警察、卫生部门官员以及参与名为“De Vuelta a la Vida”（回归生命）计划的一些人。
This is the biggest single program involved in flying drug users off the island.
这是涉及将吸毒者送离岛的最大的单一计划。
It's run by the state police.
它由州警察管理。
They help drug addicts get food, clothing, hygiene, and other services on the island.
他们帮助吸毒者在岛上获得食物、衣服、卫生和其他服务。
But also, they arrange for lots of them to fly off the island to these unlicensed programs in the United States.
而且，他们还安排很多人飞离岛参加美国的这些未经许可的项目。
And they coordinate the activities of other organizations that do this.
他们还协调其他这样做的组织的活动。
How in the world did you get the governor to talk to you about this subject?
你到底是怎么让州长和你谈论这个话题的？
Yeah, so I was at a local event at a community in Old San Juan.
是的，我参加了圣胡安老城一个社区的当地活动。
And I noticed that there was a lot of security there.
我注意到那里有很多安全措施。
And I didn't know he was going to be there.
我不知道他会在那里。
And I just kind of like-- oh my god, I really have to interview him and ask him about De Vuelta a la Vida.
我只是想——天哪，我真的必须采访他并向他询问有关《De Vuelta a la Vida》的事情。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Alejandro Garcia Padilla [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语] 亚历杭德罗·加西亚·帕迪拉 [说西班牙语]
So what's his name?
那么他叫什么名字？
Adriana Cardona-maguigad His name is Alejandro Garcia Padilla.
阿德里安娜·卡多纳-马吉加德 他的名字是亚历杭德罗·加西亚·帕迪拉。
And what'd he say?
他说什么？
Adriana Cardona-maguigad So I asked him if he knew about the program De Vuelta a la Vida, the state police program.
Adriana Cardona-maguigad 所以我问他是否知道州警察项目 De Vuelta a la Vida。
And he said it was a very successful program, that it was a great opportunity for users in Puerto Rico who were hoping to get off drugs.
他说这是一个非常成功的计划，对于波多黎各希望戒毒的用户来说这是一个很好的机会。
Did you tell him that you kept meeting all these addicts from Puerto Rico who ended up in Chicago, and they were supposed to be going to these programs and they basically end up homeless?
你有没有告诉他，你不断地遇到所有这些来自波多黎各的瘾君子，他们最终来到了芝加哥，他们应该去参加这些项目，但他们基本上最终无家可归？
Did you tell him that?
你告诉他了吗？
Yeah, I explained the situation.
是的，我解释了情况。
But he didn't seem really worried about it.
但他似乎并不真正担心这一点。
He told me that he knew the mayor of Chicago, Rahm Emanuel, and the governor of Illinois at the time, Pat Quinn, had a lot of services available, and that they, the users, should look for help and try to find services.
他告诉我，他知道芝加哥市长拉姆·伊曼纽尔和当时的伊利诺伊州州长帕特·奎因有很多可用的服务，他们作为用户应该寻求帮助并尝试寻找服务。
From the state of Illinois.
来自伊利诺伊州。
Adriana Cardona-maguigad From the state of Illinois, yes.
Adriana Cardona-maguigad 是的，来自伊利诺伊州。
And if they want to come back here to Puerto Rico, we have services for them, too.
如果他们想回到波多黎各，我们也为他们提供服务。
They're our brothers.
他们是我们的兄弟。
We welcome them.
我们欢迎他们。
Right.
正确的。
I like his whole attitude is like, well, you know, I'm sure they'll get services.
我喜欢他的整个态度，就像，嗯，你知道，我确信他们会得到服务。
It's going to be fine.
一切都会好起来的。
Yeah.
是的。
He was pretty much kind of making it sound like, yeah, well, don't worry about it.
他听起来就像是，是的，好吧，别担心。
We got you.
我们找到你了。
Adriana also spoke with the woman who runs De Vuelta a la Vida.
阿德里安娜还与经营 De Vuelta a la Vida 的女士进行了交谈。
Her name's Loribi Doval Fernandez.
她的名字叫洛里比·多瓦尔·费尔南德斯。
No surprise, even though her organization is helping arrange for drug users from all over the island to fly to treatment in the United States, she said she had no idea she was referring people to unlicensed facilities.
毫不奇怪，尽管她的组织正在帮助安排全岛各地的吸毒者飞往美国接受治疗，但她说她不知道自己正在将人们转介到未经许可的设施。
And the interesting thing is that she says it's up to the families of the users to check if these places are certified or licensed or not.
有趣的是，她说要由用户的家人来检查这些地方是否经过认证或许可。
Even though her agency is sending them to these places?
即使她的经纪公司派他们去这些地方？
Well, that's the thing.
嗯，就是这样。
When I interviewed her, then she was kind of like getting technical and saying, well, we're not referring them.
当我采访她时，她有点像技术性的人，然后说，好吧，我们不会推荐他们。
We are pointing them to those places.
我们正在向他们指出这些地方。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Adriana Cardona-maguigad We are showing those places to them.
[西班牙语] Adriana Cardona-maguigad 我们正在向他们展示这些地方。
Like, we're giving them the information, and it's up to the family or the user himself to check if those places are certified or not.
就像，我们向他们提供信息，然后由家人或用户自己检查这些地方是否经过认证。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Adriana Cardona-maguigad If they do end up leaving the island under the De Vuelta a la Vida program, they have to sign a liability waiver before they go pretty much saying that no government official is responsible for them once they leave and once they are out of the island.
[西班牙语] Adriana Cardona-maguigad 如果他们最终根据 De Vuelta a la Vida 计划离开该岛，他们必须在离开之前签署一份责任豁免书，几乎可以说，一旦他们离开并离开该岛，没有政府官员对他们负责。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Ira Glass The drug users in Chicago told Adriana they never got this message.
[西班牙语] Ira Glass 芝加哥的吸毒者告诉阿德里亚娜，他们从未收到过这个消息。
They said no one told them that they or their families should check out the rehab places before flying to Chicago.
他们说，没有人告诉他们，他们或他们的家人应该在飞往芝加哥之前检查一下康复中心。
Many wouldn't know how to check, she said.
她说，很多人不知道如何检查。
They don't have the internet.
他们没有互联网。
Some are not in touch with their families.
有些人与家人没有联系。
If anything, they said, government officials were reassuring them that everything was going to be really great in Chicago.
他们说，如果说有什么不同的话，那就是政府官员向他们保证，芝加哥的一切都会非常好。
They pretty much trusted the government officials who were sending them here.
他们非常信任派他们来这里的政府官员。
Like Manuel, he totally trusted that he was coming to a place with all kinds of services.
和曼努埃尔一样，他完全相信自己将来到一个提供各种服务的地方。
In the end, Adriana did find one official who seemed to really understand what was happening with these drug users once they got to the United States.
最后，阿德里安娜确实找到了一位官员，他似乎真正了解这些吸毒者到达美国后发生的事情。
His name is Dr. Angel Gonzalez, and he was with the Puerto Rican Department of Health, Anti-Addiction, and Mental Health Services until last year.
他的名字叫安吉尔·冈萨雷斯 (Angel Gonzalez) 博士，去年之前一直在波多黎各卫生、反成瘾和心理健康服务部工作。
About a year ago, while he was still with the agency, he went to a drug treatment conference in Philadelphia, and he heard about the unlicensed places from a reporter there.
大约一年前，当他还在该机构工作时，他去费城参加了一个药物治疗会议，并从那里的一名记者那里听说了无证场所。
We felt terrible.
我们感觉很糟糕。
I mean, imagine somebody living in these conditions.
我的意思是，想象一下有人生活在这些条件下。
So we became very alarmed with that.
所以我们对此感到非常震惊。
He started to alert other officials all over Puerto Rico to the problem.
他开始提醒波多黎各各地的其他官员注意这个问题。
But he says nothing's changed.
但他说一切都没有改变。
He told Adriana that the big issue is there are so many injection drug users on the island right now.
他告诉阿德里安娜，最大的问题是现在岛上有很多注射吸毒者。
Puerto Rico's become a big transit point for drugs traveling to the United States from South America.
波多黎各已成为毒品从南美洲运往美国的重要中转站。
And the budget to treat these users is shrinking.
而治疗这些用户的预算正在缩减。
And Dr. Gonzalez says he thinks most of the police or other officials sending users off the island for treatment think, well, it's either this or no treatment at all.
冈萨雷斯博士说，他认为大多数将用户送出岛接受治疗的警察或其他官员都认为，要么就这样，要么根本不接受治疗。
So in other words, it's something's better than nothing.
换句话说，有总比没有好。
I guess.
我猜。
Ira Glass I guess.
我猜是艾拉·格拉斯。
Because when you look at somebody like Manuel, he wasn't getting nothing in Puerto Rico.
因为当你看到像曼努埃尔这样的人时，你会发现他在波多黎各一无所获。
He got HIV meds and methadone.
他得到了艾滋病毒药物和美沙酮。
And after Puerto Rico said, not it, and sent him to Segunda Vida, and after he quit Segunda Vita, he tried to sign up for legitimate licensed drug treatment in Chicago, but he ended up on a long waiting list-- kind of a slow motion not it.
在波多黎各说，不是这样，并把他送到Segunda Vida之后，在他退出Segunda Vita之后，他试图在芝加哥报名接受合法许可的药物治疗，但他最终在一张长长的等待名单上——有点慢动作，不是。
While he's been waiting, he got sick from eating garbage, ended up in the hospital, where they found other physical problems.
在等待期间，他因吃垃圾而生病，最终住进了医院，在那里他们发现了其他身体问题。
He got arrested for stealing from a store, did a couple months in jail, where he finally stopped using, Adriana says.
阿德里安娜说，他因从商店偷窃而被捕，并入狱几个月，最后他终于不再使用这种药物。
Then he got out of jail, and Adriana says he's now using again.
然后他出狱了，阿德里安娜说他现在又吸毒了。
He's also found a place to get methadone, and he gets that, too.
他还找到了一个可以获得美沙酮的地方，他也得到了。
He still has no HIV medication.
他仍然没有治疗艾滋病毒的药物。
He still doesn't speak English.
他仍然不会说英语。
He still has to put up with the winter.
他还得忍受冬天。
Nine months after he arrived in the United States, Adriana says things seem worse for him-- or in any case, they're certainly no better than they were back in Puerto Rico.
到达美国九个月后，阿德里安娜说事情对他来说似乎更糟——或者无论如何，情况肯定不比回到波多黎各时好。
Though he does have friends.
虽然他确实有朋友。
There's a community of people like him-- addicts that came here with the illusion that they will get great services, and they're now in the streets.
有一个像他这样的人社区——瘾君子来到这里，幻想着他们会得到很好的服务，而他们现在却流落街头。
And they hang out at the McDonald's.
他们在麦当劳闲逛。
They hang out at the corners.
他们在角落里闲逛。
They all hang out all day.
他们整天都在闲逛。
Because he has those guys, Adriana says, to her surprise, Manuel has stopped trying to get himself back to Puerto Rico.
阿德里安娜说，因为他有这些人，令她惊讶的是，曼努埃尔不再试图让自己回到波多黎各。
Coming up, the joke that launched a second joke that launched a third joke that launched a not it.
即将到来，这个笑话引发了第二个笑话，引发了第三个笑话，引发了一个不是它。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, "Not It," stories of people passing the buck, saying, not me, shedding responsibility, dropping the hot potato.
今天的节目《不是它》讲述了人们推卸责任、说“不是我”、推卸责任、丢掉烫手山芋的故事。
We have arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。
Act Two, "Last But Not Least." This is a story about a city that years ago was given a title and is now saying not it to that title.
第二幕，“最后但并非最不重要的”。这是一个关于一座城市的故事，这座城市多年前被赋予了一个头衔，但现在却不再是这个头衔了。
They do not want the title anymore.
他们不再想要这个头衔了。
Here's Brian Reed.
请听布莱恩·里德的报道。
Tim Keown is a junior in high school, and he was sitting in class one day last fall when he learned something about his hometown that shocked him.
蒂姆·基翁 (Tim Keown) 是一名高中三年级学生，去年秋天的一天，当他坐在课堂上时，他了解到了有关家乡的一些让他震惊的事情。
Tim's lived his whole life in a small city of about 30,000 people-- Kankakee, Illinois.
蒂姆一生都生活在一个约有 30,000 人的小城市——伊利诺伊州坎卡基。
It's about an hour's drive south of Chicago.
距芝加哥以南约一小时车程。
And so his class was on laptops, researching local Kankakee history together.
所以他的课是在笔记本电脑上一起研究当地的坎卡基历史。
And they showed us this article and it said that, out of 354 cities, that we were ranked the worst city, worst in all the cities in America.
他们给我们看了这篇文章，上面说，在 354 个城市中，我们被评为最差的城市，是美国所有城市中最差的。
Hate to break it to you, Tim, but all the cities in Canada, too.
蒂姆，我不想透露给你，但加拿大所有的城市也是如此。
The article was from 1999, the year the ranking came out.
这篇文章来自 1999 年，也就是排名发布的那一年。
It was ridiculous.
这太荒谬了。
I couldn't believe it.
我简直不敢相信。
I grew up thinking our town was fantastic, and then all a sudden I hear, oh yeah, we were ranked the worst city in America.
我从小就认为我们的小镇很棒，然后突然我听说，哦，是的，我们被评为美国最差的城市。
It was pretty hurtful to see that.
看到这一点真是令人伤心。
The ranking had been published in a book called The Places Rated Almanac .
该排名已发布在一本名为《地点评级年鉴》的书中。
They use nine criteria, like crime, job outlook, climate, and culture, to rate cities' livability.
他们使用犯罪、就业前景、气候和文化等九项标准来评估城市的宜居性。
These lists come out all the time.
这些名单一直在出现。
They're a dime a dozen.
他们一毛钱一打。
So people outside of Kankakee probably would have barely noticed it if not for the other thing Tim and his classmates discovered during their research.
因此，如果不是蒂姆和他的同学在研究过程中发现的另一件事，坎卡基以外的人可能几乎不会注意到它。
The category tonight-- top 10 slogans for Kankakee, Illinois.
今晚的类别——伊利诺伊州坎卡基十大口号。
Here we go.
开始了。
Number 10.
10号。
In 1999, David Letterman made Kankakee the butt of one of his top 10 lists on the Late Show .
1999 年，大卫·莱特曼 (David Letterman) 将坎卡基 (Kankakee) 列为他在深夜秀节目中十大热门名单之一。
You'll come for a pay phone.
你会来找付费电话的。
You'll stay because your car's been stolen.
你会留下来，因为你的车被偷了。
Number nine.
第九号。
Ask about our staggering unemployment rate.
询问我们惊人的失业率。
Number eight.
第八号。
We put the ill in Illinois.
我们把病人放在伊利诺伊州。
Number seven.
第七号。
We also put the annoy in Illinois.
我们还把烦恼放在了伊利诺伊州。
My favorite, by the way, number four-- Abe Lincoln slept here by accident.
顺便说一下，我最喜欢的第四位——亚伯·林肯偶然睡在这里。
And you know, Kankakee might have even tiptoed past this without attracting too much attention.
你知道，坎卡基甚至可能在没有引起太多关注的情况下悄悄地超越了这一点。
It was just a short bit.
这只是一小会儿。
Except that a week and a half later on the Letterman Show , on November 16, 1999.
一周半后，即 1999 年 11 月 16 日，莱特曼秀上。
We have the mayor of Kankakee, Donald Green.
我们有坎卡基市长唐纳德·格林。
And we're just going to see how he's doing.
我们只是想看看他表现如何。
He may not be feeling so good, you know.
你知道，他可能感觉不太好。
Dave called Kankakee's mayor on the phone.
戴夫给坎卡基市长打电话。
Kankakee, as you know, finished dead last.
如您所知，坎卡基排名垫底。
Right.
正确的。
David Letterman Now, how did that make you feel?
大卫·莱特曼 现在，这让你感觉如何？
Well, it sort of hurt.
嗯，有点疼。
Because that's, in my opinion, not really a true statement of our community.
因为在我看来，这并不是我们社区的真实陈述。
Mayor, I hate to interrupt you here, but a thought just crossed my mind.
市长，我不想在这里打扰您，但我的脑海中突然闪过一个念头。
Do you think it has anything to do with the name itself?
你认为这和名字本身有什么关系吗？
No. Kankakee's a fine name.
不，坎卡基是个好名字。
David Letterman What is it?
大卫·莱特曼 这是什么？
Is it an Indian-- is it a Native American name, Kankakee?
这是印第安人的名字吗？坎卡基（Kankakee）是美洲原住民的名字吗？
It is an Indian name, right.
这是一个印度名字，对吧。
David Letterman Do you know what it means?
大卫·莱特曼 你知道这意味着什么吗？
Pretty good.
不错。
Brian Reed Letterman tells the mayor, I'm going to do you a little favor.
布莱恩·里德·莱特曼告诉市长，我要帮你一个小忙。
He says he feels a connection with Kankakee because he's from Indiana, right next door.
他说他与坎卡基有一种联系，因为他来自隔壁的印第安纳州。
So we thought long and hard and we came up with something to give to you to brighten the spirits of you and the community of Kankakee.
因此，我们经过深思熟虑，最终想出了一些东西送给您，以照亮您和坎卡基社区的精神。
Do we have it?
我们有吗？
Turn on the the satellite.
打开卫星。
Ladies and gentlemen, there it is.
女士们先生们，就是这样。
The show cuts to a shot of Kankakee's City Hall, where a trailer is parked out front with some kind of structure sitting on it that's about to be unveiled.
节目切换到坎卡基市政厅的一个镜头，一辆拖车停在前面，上面坐着某种即将揭幕的结构。
All right, go ahead.
好吧，继续吧。
Tell them what it is, Alan.
告诉他们那是什么，艾伦。
It's a brand new gazebo!
这是一个全新的凉亭！
Yes, featuring rugged cedar construction and white-washed to withstand the harsh, inhospitable climate of Kankakee, this gazebo has--
是的，这座凉亭采用坚固的雪松结构并粉刷成白色，可以承受坎卡基恶劣、荒凉的气候，它有——
And if you thought the joke ended there, well, then you did not watch the Late Show two weeks later, December 1, 1999, when Dave called up the mayor of Kankakee yet again while the man was on vacation to tell him he didn't think the show had done quite enough to help the town.
如果你认为笑话到此结束，那么你就没有观看两周后的《深夜秀》，即 1999 年 12 月 1 日，当时戴夫再次打电话给正在度假的坎卡基市长，告诉他他认为该节目对帮助该镇的作用还不够。
We have something else, Mr. Mayor.
我们还有别的事，市长先生。
Sit down.
坐下。
Get a hold of yourself.
控制住自己。
OK.
好的。
David Letterman In addition to the gazebo, Alan, tell them what we're giving them.
大卫·莱特曼：除了凉亭之外，艾伦，告诉他们我们还给他们什么。
Identical to the first one.
与第一个相同。
Again, the show cuts to downtown Kankakee.
节目再次切换到坎卡基市中心。
Again, there's a gazebo, the second one, sitting on a trailer next to the first with a sign, Letterman's suggestion for a new tourism hook, "Kankakee-- the home of the twin gazebos."
再次，有一个凉亭，第二个，坐在第一个凉亭旁边的拖车上，上面有一个标志，这是莱特曼对新旅游景点的建议，“坎卡基——双凉亭的家。”
(SINGING) There it is.
（唱）就在那里。
Kankakee's brand new gazebo.
坎卡基的全新凉亭。
It makes everything OK.
它让一切都好起来。
It's not a placebo.
它不是安慰剂。
Gazebo.
凉亭。
Gazebo.
凉亭。
Gazebos were weird for me, because I didn't understand what a gazebo was.
凉亭对我来说很奇怪，因为我不明白凉亭是什么。
Because I hadn't asked my parents about, you know, like, what is this?
因为我没有问过我的父母，你知道，这是什么？
Why is this here?
为什么会在这里？
And then they told me, oh, you know, it was from David Letterman.
然后他们告诉我，哦，你知道，这是大卫·莱特曼写的。
And that was the end of the story.
故事就这样结束了。
There was no more talk about it.
没有再谈论这件事。
Tim Keown was one when Letterman gave Kankakee the gazebos.
当莱特曼把凉亭送给坎卡基时，蒂姆·基翁就是其中之一。
So for him growing up, they were just a part of the city that had always been there, like the courthouse or the old root beer stand.
因此，对于他的成长过程来说，它们只是这座城市一直存在的一部分，就像法院或旧的根汁啤酒摊一样。
It was just, ah, they're from David Letterman.
只是，啊，它们来自大卫·莱特曼。
I was like, OK.
我当时想，好吧。
It was just, there was no talk about it.
只是，没有谈论它。
None of the adults in our community ever really talked about it.
我们社区中没有一个成年人真正谈论过它。
They were ashamed of it, I guess.
我猜他们为此感到羞耻。
So now 15 years after Letterman gifted the gazebos, as Tim and his classmates were sitting there in school in disbelief, seeing that their hometown had been made into a laughingstock on national television, something clicked for them.
因此，在莱特曼赠送凉亭 15 年后，当蒂姆和他的同学们难以置信地坐在学校里，看到他们的家乡成为国家电视台的笑柄时，他们突然灵光一现。
Most of the students had lived in Kankakee their entire lives and thought it was fine.
大多数学生一生都住在坎卡基，并认为那里很好。
And it hit them.
这击中了他们。
You know something?
你知道什么吗？
We don't get no respect.
我们没有得到任何尊重。
We don't get no respect at all.
我们根本得不到任何尊重。
And they'd never understood why.
他们永远不明白为什么。
We were thought as, like, the lowest of the low because we were from Kankakee.
我们被认为是最低等的人，因为我们来自坎卡基。
I visited Tim's class, and the students had so many memories of people from nearby towns sneering at Kankakee.
我参观了蒂姆的班级，学生们对附近城镇的人们嘲笑坎卡基有很多回忆。
Rumors and stuff that we were all, like, drug dealers or--
谣言之类的，说我们都是毒贩，或者——
The most common was that we were ghetto and everyone was fighting in the hallways.
最常见的是我们是贫民窟，每个人都在走廊里打架。
I transferred to this high school my freshman year, and when I told people where I was transferring they would be like, oh, you're going to Kankakee?
我大一时转学到这所高中，当我告诉人们我要转学到哪里时，他们会说，哦，你要去坎卡基吗？
Well, good luck.
好吧，祝你好运。
Tim remembers when he was little playing with kids in neighboring towns.
蒂姆记得他小时候和邻近城镇的孩子们一起玩耍。
Their parents--
他们的父母——
They wouldn't even want to take me home.
他们甚至不想带我回家。
I always had to have my parents come pick me up.
我总是需要我的父母来接我。
Like, you don't even want to go over there.
就像，你甚至不想去那里。
There was the girl who interviewed to go on an academic exchange program in Spain.
有一个女孩面试去西班牙进行学术交流。
She was with students from other schools as she explained that she was on the honor roll, held leadership positions.
她和其他学校的学生在一起，解释说她在荣誉榜上，担任领导职务。
And as soon as I said, I'm from Kankakee, this girl turned around and she looked at her friend, and she was like, well, that's not very educational.
当我说“我来自坎卡基”时，这个女孩转过身来看着她的朋友，她说，好吧，这没有什么教育意义。
And I'm like, are they calling me stupid?
我想，他们是在说我傻吗？
There was the time this student went shopping for a prom tux.
有一次，这位学生去购买舞会礼服。
Of course they were asking you like, what school are you from?
当然他们会问你，你是哪个学校的？
My mom's like, oh, we're from Kankakee.
我妈妈说，哦，我们来自坎卡基。
And the girl was like-- she goes to the other girl, you handle them.
那个女孩就像——她去找另一个女孩，你处理他们。
They're from Kankakee.
他们来自坎卡基。
Skankakee is on Urban Dictionary.
Skankakee 收录在城市词典中。
Skankakee is on Urban Dictionary.
Skankakee 收录在城市词典中。
There are actually several definitions of Kankakee on Urban Dictionary.
实际上，Urban Dictionary 上对 Kankakee 有多种定义。
One, a noun, when a manatee gets a canker sore.
一，名词，海牛得口腔溃疡时。
But also, quote, "a once thriving railroad town that has become overrun by gangsters and hood rats."
而且，引用一下，“一个曾经繁荣的铁路小镇，现在已经被歹徒和引擎盖老鼠占领了。”
And you can't lay all the blame for that on Letterman.
你不能把这一切都归咎于莱特曼。
Just like happened to cities across the Midwest, in the early '80s, several huge employers left Kankakee or went under almost overnight, leaving thousands of people out of work.
就像中西部城市发生的情况一样，在 80 年代初，几家大型雇主离开了坎卡基，或者几乎在一夜之间倒闭，导致数千人失业。
And like also happened to lots of other cities, white people fled Kankakee in droves.
就像许多其他城市发生的情况一样，白人成群结队地逃离坎卡基。
Meanwhile, white people stayed in the adjacent suburbs of Bradley and Bourbonnais.
与此同时，白人留在布拉德利和波旁的邻近郊区。
As a result, those towns and their joint high school are much whiter than Kankakee, which is about 40% black and 20% Latino.
因此，这些城镇及其联合高中的白人比例比坎卡基白人要高得多，坎卡基黑人人口占 40%，拉丁裔人口占 20%。
One of the teachers of the class I visited, Steve DiSanto, remembers when he was hired to come to Kankakee High a few years ago.
我拜访的班级的一位老师史蒂夫·迪桑托 (Steve DiSanto) 记得几年前他被聘请来到坎卡基高中的情景。
I immediately went online, because I didn't know about Kankakee.
我立即上网，因为我不知道 Kankakee。
I discovered quickly a lot of people thought it was bad and poor.
我很快发现很多人认为它很糟糕而且很穷。
There was blogs about it.
有关于它的博客。
People would say, oh, it's Skankakee.
人们会说，哦，这是斯坎卡基。
It's the worst place ever.
这是有史以来最糟糕的地方。
They make it like it's a jail yard or something.
他们把它弄得像一个监狱场什么的。
Especially, there's a street here called Hobby.
特别是，这里有一条叫做Hobby的街道。
And everyone's like, you can't go out at night.
每个人都说，你晚上不能出去。
You shouldn't even drive down it.
你甚至不应该把它开下来。
Well, I drove down it when I came here, and what I saw was families.
嗯，我来这里的时候开车过来的，看到的是一家人。
They were black families.
他们是黑人家庭。
So I was like, well, so this must mean something.
所以我想，好吧，所以这一定意味着什么。
I've been out and they're like, I would never go to that side of the town.
我出去过，他们说，我永远不会去城镇的那边。
Well, why?
嗯，为什么？
Well, it's dark over there.
嗯，那边很黑。
What do you mean dark?
你说的黑暗是什么意思？
You mean like dark at night?
你是说像晚上一样黑吗？
And they're like, no, you know, dark.
他们就像，不，你知道，黑暗。
You know.
你知道。
One student said she once overheard a white woman at the Walmart in Bourbonnais going on about a gang banger she claimed to have seen in Kankakee, and how he was probably going to rob her house.
一名学生说，她曾经在波旁的沃尔玛无意中听到一名白人妇女谈论她声称在坎卡基看到的一名帮派歹徒，以及他可能会如何抢劫她的房子。
As the student was telling me about this, her classmate Darrylneshia chimed in.
当这名学生告诉我这件事时，她的同学达里内西亚插话了。
I have been a lot of places in Kankakee.
我去过坎卡基很多地方。
I've never seen a gang banger.
我从来没有见过帮派混混。
I think what they see is African Americans that are dressed a certain type of way, Mexicans that are dressed a certain type of way.
我认为他们看到的是穿着某种方式的非裔美国人，穿着某种方式的墨西哥人。
And they're in cliques, so they're like, OK, well, I was told Kankakee is a bad place.
他们拉帮结派，所以他们说，好吧，好吧，有人告诉我坎卡基是个坏地方。
Those must be gang bangers.
那些肯定是黑帮分子。
So I'm going to go spread this word and say, I've seen gang bangers.
所以我要去传播这个消息并说，我见过黑帮。
No, baby, you've seen a clique of people hanging out just differently than you do.
不，宝贝，你见过一群人，他们的生活方式和你的不一样。
Just like you hang out at Starbucks, they're hanging out at parks and stuff.
就像你在星巴克闲逛一样，他们也在公园之类的地方闲逛。
It doesn't make them gang bangers.
这并不会让他们成为黑帮。
That brings to mind a comment thread I saw on city-data.com titled, "Is Kankakee really dangerous for Caucasians?" in which a woman says she and her husband are looking to purchase a home in Kankakee but, quote, "some of our friends said that area is prominently black and Hispanic and that we would be shot or hurt if we moved into that area because we are white.
这让我想起了我在 city-data.com 上看到的一条评论，标题为“坎卡基对白人来说真的很危险吗？”其中一名妇女说，她和她的丈夫打算在坎卡基购买一套房子，但引述说，“我们的一些朋友说，这个地区主要是黑人和西班牙裔，如果我们搬到那个地区，我们会被枪杀或受伤，因为我们是白人。
Is this true?"
这是真的吗？”
I spent time outside some big stores in the nearby towns, Bradley and Bourbonnais, asking people what they thought of Kankakee.
我在附近城镇布拉德利和波旁的一些大商店外面花了一些时间，询问人们对坎卡基的看法。
And no one said anything I would call overtly racist-- at least to me standing there with a microphone.
没有人说过任何我认为公然种族主义的话——至少对拿着麦克风站在那里的我来说是这样。
In fact, people were pretty low key in their feelings about Kankakee.
事实上，人们对坎卡基的感情相当低调。
Some had no problem with the place-- even liked it.
有些人对这个地方没有任何问题——甚至喜欢它。
And lots talked about it the way people everywhere talk about the part of town they don't go to.
很多人谈论它就像世界各地的人们谈论他们不去的城镇的一部分一样。
They'd heard it was unsafe.
他们听说这里不安全。
They avoided it, but they didn't give it much thought.
他们回避了，但也没有多想。
I think that kind of attitude exists all over.
我认为这种态度到处都存在。
Most places have that city or neighborhood that people outside have written off as dangerous or rundown.
大多数地方的城市或社区都被外界认为是危险或破败的。
I think most places have their own Kankakee.
我想大多数地方都有自己的坎卡基。
So when the students at Kankakee High finally, after all those years, discovered the true history of their town, they decided enough was enough.
因此，当坎卡基高中的学生们在这么多年后终于发现了他们小镇的真实历史时，他们决定受够了。
Learning that they've been ridiculed on national television as the worst city in America, and then realizing that the symbols of that ridicule, the gazebos, were just sitting there on display in the heart of their city, oh, hell no.
得知他们在国家电视台上被嘲笑为美国最糟糕的城市，然后意识到这种嘲笑的象征，凉亭，就在他们城市的中心展示着，哦，天哪，不。
Every time we had to look at them after that point, it was like seeing something that was mocking us.
在那之后，每当我们不得不看着它们时，就好像看到了一些东西在嘲笑我们。
We were all like, why are these still here?
我们都想，为什么这些还在这里？
It's been 15 years.
已经15年了。
Why are they even still here?
他们为什么还在这里？
We should get rid of them.
我们应该摆脱他们。
They found out that they weren't the only ones who felt this way.
他们发现他们并不是唯一有这种感觉的人。
They saw that Kankakee's economic director had said once in the Chicago Tribune that every year he tries to get the mayor to send the gazebos back to David Letterman, so the students joined that campaign.
他们看到坎卡基的经济总监曾经在《芝加哥论坛报》上说过，每年他都会试图让市长把凉亭送回给大卫·莱特曼，所以学生们也加入了这场运动。
They met with the mayor and talked her into letting them tear down one of the gazebos.
他们会见了市长并说服她让他们拆除其中一处凉亭。
But Tim says just in case outsiders might see them as destructive hooligans--
但蒂姆说，以防外人可能将他们视为破坏性的流氓——
We were like, let's try to do it in a funny.
我们想，让我们尝试以一种有趣的方式来做吧。
Way put it into a rocking chair and send it back to David Letterman.
韦把它放在摇椅上，然后寄回给大卫·莱特曼。
You know, he was retiring, so we thought it would be funny if he got a rocking chair to go along with it.
你知道，他要退休了，所以我们认为如果他有一张摇椅来搭配的话会很有趣。
The class contacted David Letterman and persuaded him to receive a rocking chair made of repurposed gazebo wood-- a gift for his retirement, which is happening next month.
全班同学联系了大卫·莱特曼，并说服他接受一把由改造后的凉亭木制成的摇椅，这是送给他下个月退休的礼物。
Almost immediately, there was backlash to the idea.
几乎立刻，这个想法就遭到了强烈反对。
Someone formed a Facebook page with more than 400 likes called Save the Kankakee Gazebos, where people posted angry comments like this one.
有人创建了一个名为“拯救 Kankakee Gazebos”的 Facebook 页面，获得了 400 多个点赞，人们在上面发表了类似这样的愤怒评论。
"Typical of Kankakee to let the gazebos fall into disrepair then tear them down and make a mockery of a very costly gift to the city.
“这是坎卡基的典型做法，让凉亭年久失修，然后将其拆除，这对这座城市来说是一份非常昂贵的礼物的嘲弄。
This community is just as much a mess as it ever was.
这个社区和以前一样混乱。
How about using their carpentry skills to repair these boarded-up crack houses to make some much-needed, quality low-income housing?"
利用他们的木工技能修复这些用木板封起来的裂缝房屋，建造一些急需的优质低收入住房怎么样？”
It's true there's more crime in Kankakee than in surrounding areas, including some gangs.
确实，坎卡基的犯罪活动比周边地区更多，其中包括一些帮派。
There were six murders last year and 100 aggravated assaults in a city of about 30,000 people.
这座拥有约 30,000 人口的城市去年发生了 6 起谋杀案和 100 起严重袭击事件。
And the unemployment rate is still high, almost 10%.
而且失业率仍然很高，接近10%。
But still, the people I talked to who live in Kankakee said they wouldn't want to move.
但与我交谈过的居住在坎卡基的人们仍然表示他们不想搬家。
They love it.
他们喜欢它。
When I asked them why, they listed the kind of stuff people often feel obliged to say when they answer that kind of question-- the great library, the farmer's market.
当我问他们为什么时，他们列出了人们在回答这类问题时经常觉得有必要说的东西——伟大的图书馆、农贸市场。
Though what I'd say I heard the most praise for in Kankakee was its diversity.
不过我想说的是，我在坎卡基听到最多的赞扬是它的多样性。
Standing in front of the class I visited, you could see it, and see that they're proud of it.
站在我参观的班级前面，你可以看到它，看到他们为此感到自豪。
I am biracial myself, which is a great thing.
我自己是混血儿，这是一件好事。
I am friends with a lot of Mexicans.
我和很多墨西哥人都是朋友。
Muy bien.
嗯嗯。
[LAUGHING] And that's not racist because I'm in Spanish 3, so I know Spanish.
[笑]这不是种族主义，因为我在西班牙语3级，所以我懂西班牙语。
And I'm friends with white people.
我和白人是朋友。
This is my best friend.
这是我最好的朋友。
She's white.
她是白人。
Can you confirm that?
你能证实吗？
Student 7 Yep.
学生 7 是的。
I'm her best friend.
我是她最好的朋友。
[LAUGHING] Brian Reed And that you're white?
[笑]布莱恩·里德 那你是白人吗？
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
And I'm white, too.
而且我也是白人。
I see how it is.
我明白是怎么回事了。
So it's just a really good environment to be in.
所以这是一个非常好的环境。
One student said she transferred to a private school, but she only stayed a few days.
一名学生说，她转学到了一所私立学校，但只呆了几天。
She missed the diversity of Kankakee High and having friends around that she could speak Spanish with.
她怀念坎卡基高中的多样性，怀念周围可以和她讲西班牙语的朋友。
It made me wonder.
这让我想知道。
Back in 1999, Kankakee was rated the worst place to live-- for who, exactly?
早在 1999 年，坎卡基就被评为最不适宜居住的地方——到底是谁的？
On a snowy day in February, the students did it.
二月的一个下雪天，学生们做到了。
They marched out to the gazebo next to the train station, crowbars and chainsaw in hand, and demolished it.
他们手持撬棍和电锯，大步走到火车站旁边的凉亭，将其拆除。
The next month, Letterman sent a crew out to Kankakee to film a new segment for his show, the students presenting him with the rocking chair in front of a live audience at the Paramount, a beautiful old-timey theater downtown.
下个月，莱特曼派了一个工作人员到坎卡基为他的节目拍摄一个新片段，学生们在派拉蒙剧院（市中心一座美丽的老式剧院）的现场观众面前向他展示了摇椅。
Here's Alexis, the biracial student with the white best friend.
这是亚历克西斯，混血学生和白人最好的朋友。
We welcome you as we show America the greatest hidden treasure in the world, Kankakee.
我们欢迎您，我们将向美国展示世界上最伟大的隐藏宝藏——坎卡基。
Other schools, employers, and people put us down every day because we live in Kankakee.
其他学校、雇主和人们每天都在贬低我们，因为我们住在坎卡基。
This is not right.
这是不对的。
We should not have to carry this stereotype our whole lives.
我们不应该一生都带着这种刻板印象。
The time to change is now.
现在是改变的时候了。
Brian Reed The school marching band filled the aisles, wearing brand new uniforms with red plumes on their hats that arrived just in time for the TV shoot.
布莱恩·里德 (Brian Reed) 学校游行乐队挤满了过道，他们穿着全新制服，帽子上有红色羽毛，正好赶上电视拍摄。
I know it sounds corny.
我知道这听起来很老套。
And sure, there was some corn.
当然，还有一些玉米。
But I don't think I've ever been to a high school pep rally where I sensed as much actual pride in the town as I did here.
但我认为我从来没有参加过高中动员集会，在那里我感受到了像在这里一样多的对小镇的真正自豪感。
Kankakee!
坎卡基！
Keeko can!
琪琪可以！
Who can?
谁可以？
We can!
我们可以！
Kankakee can!
坎卡基可以！
[CHEERING] Brian Reed Kankakee, Keeko can.
[欢呼] Brian Reed Kankakee，Keeko 可以。
Who can?
谁可以？
We can.
我们可以。
Kankakee can.
坎卡基可以。
Put that on your top 10 list, Dave.
戴夫，把它列入你的前 10 名名单中。
Brian Reed is a producer on our program.
布莱恩·里德 (Brian Reed) 是我们节目的制片人。
[MUSIC - STEVIE WONDER "VILLAGE GHETTO LAND"]
[音乐 - STEVIE WONDER“乡村贫民区”]
Act Three: The Big Crapple Ira Glass Act Three, "The Big Crapple."
第三幕：大崩溃 艾拉·格拉斯 第三幕，“大崩溃”。
So you've probably heard the acronym NIMBY, short for Not In My Backyard.
所以您可能听说过缩写词“NIMBY”，即“Not In My Backyard”的缩写。
And can I just say right now, please, Public Radio listeners, do not send me emails telling me how you have always thought that it should be NIMB because "backyard" is one word.
我现在可以说，公共广播电台的听众们，请不要给我发电子邮件告诉我你们一直认为应该是 NIMB，因为“后院”是一个词。
I'm tired of hearing it.
我听腻了。
So just keep that thought to yourself.
所以，请把这个想法留给自己。
Anyway, NIMBY is a community-- I think you know this-- yelling, we don't want your nuclear power plant or your prison or your whatever.
不管怎样，邻避是一个社区——我想你知道这一点——大喊大叫，我们不想要你们的核电站、你们的监狱或你们的任何东西。
Anyway, Zoe Chace has this story of perhaps misplaced NIMBY-ism.
不管怎样，佐伊·查斯（Zoe Chace）有一个也许是错误的邻避主义的故事。
A few months ago, I was going to a party with my friends.
几个月前，我和朋友们去参加一个聚会。
And we were getting ready together.
我们一起做好准备。
And while we were putting on our dresses, I started doing this thing that I do a lot, which is comparing.
当我们穿上衣服时，我开始做我经常做的事情，那就是比较。
Like, how do you put on your eyeliner so well, and that's such a nice bracelet that you're wearing.
比如，你怎么把眼线画得这么好，而且你戴的手镯真漂亮。
And then I noticed, dude, you're armpits are so smooth.
然后我注意到，伙计，你的腋窝是如此光滑。
Like, that is what I want.
就像，这就是我想要的。
How do you get them so perfectly hairless?
你如何让它们如此完美无毛？
And she was like, I laser.
她说，我激光。
I laser off the hairs.
我用激光去除毛发。
My mind was blown, like, yeah, this is expensive upfront, but cheaper in the long run because the hair doesn't come back.
我的心震惊了，是的，这前期很贵，但从长远来看更便宜，因为头发不会再长了。
And it looked so nice.
它看起来很好。
Sometimes I hear about the way somebody solves a problem, and I cannot get it out of my head.
有时我听到某人解决问题的方法，我无法将其从脑海中抹去。
Like, why don't I do it that way?
就像，我为什么不这样做呢？
That just seems better.
这看起来更好。
This is how I felt when I learned about the way they deal with garbage in Europe.
当我了解到欧洲人处理垃圾的方式时，我就是这样的感受。
Compared to the United States, Europe-- well, Northern Europe-- seemed like a garbage utopia to me when I first heard about it.
与美国相比，当我第一次听说欧洲时，欧洲——好吧，北欧——对我来说似乎是一个垃圾乌托邦。
There are all these fancy incinerators.
这里有所有这些奇特的焚化炉。
And they're incredibly efficient.
而且他们的效率非常高。
They barely pollute.
它们几乎不会造成污染。
Like, the amount of hazardous chemicals that come out of these things is equivalent to a fireplace.
比如，这些东西产生的危险化学物质的量相当于一个壁炉。
And on top of that, some of them are really pretty.
最重要的是，其中一些真的很漂亮。
This one in Denmark looks like a gay club with twinkly lights.
这家位于丹麦，看起来就像一家灯光闪烁的同性恋俱乐部。
This one in France is all covered with grass.
法国的这个，全被草覆盖了。
And the whole point is they convert garbage into energy.
重点是它们将垃圾转化为能源。
They produce steam, which heats their homes and businesses.
他们生产蒸汽，为家庭和企业供暖。
We do not do this in the United States.
我们在美国不这样做。
We do not have these super efficient, beautiful garbage-to-energy incinerators, not that many of them, anyway.
我们没有这些超高效、漂亮的垃圾焚烧炉，而且数量也不是很多。
More than half of our garbage goes to landfills.
我们一半以上的垃圾都被运往垃圾填埋场。
And as you know, landfills are pretty much the worst.
如您所知，垃圾填埋场几乎是最糟糕的。
They release methane 20 times more powerful than carbon dioxide.
它们释放的甲烷比二氧化碳强20倍。
To be fair, incinerators also pollute.
公平地说，焚化炉也会造成污染。
They produce carbon dioxide and ash, just a lot less pollution than landfills.
它们产生二氧化碳和灰烬，只是比垃圾填埋场污染少得多。
Germany, Austria, Sweden, the Netherlands, Denmark, they landfill almost nothing.
德国、奥地利、瑞典、荷兰、丹麦，他们几乎没有填埋任何东西。
They recycle around half their waste.
他们回收了大约一半的废物。
And they burn the rest of their garbage in these things that generate electricity and heat.
他们将剩余的垃圾焚烧在这些产生电力和热量的东西中。
All right, so when I heard about this, I wondered, why do the Europeans have so many and we have so few?
好吧，所以当我听说这个的时候，我就想，为什么欧洲人有这么多，而我们却这么少？
And the answer really boils down to this is not Europe.
答案实际上归结为这不是欧洲。
This is a big country.
这是一个大国。
We have a lot of land.
我们有很多土地。
Landfilling is just so much cheaper here.
这里的垃圾填埋费用要便宜得多。
And that was the answer to my question.
这就是我问题的答案。
Except there are a lot of places in the United States where there is not a lot of space, where land is super expensive, like New York City, where I live.
除了美国有很多地方没有太多空间，土地非常昂贵，比如我居住的纽约市。
New York doesn't deal with any of its garbage itself.
纽约本身不处理任何垃圾。
80% goes to a landfill somewhere else.
80% 被送往其他地方的垃圾填埋场。
Trucks get on I-78 and drive hundreds of miles to Eastern Ohio to drop off my Chinese takeout containers.
卡车驶上 78 号州际公路，行驶数百英里到达俄亥俄州东部，把我的中餐外卖集装箱扔下来。
Sending our trash away costs $300 million a year.
每年将垃圾运走的费用为 3 亿美元。
That's just for the transportation.
那只是为了交通。
New York kind of seems like the perfect place for a fancy new waste-to-energy incinerator.
纽约似乎是建造新型垃圾焚烧炉的完美地点。
So why don't we have one here?
那为什么我们这里没有一个呢？
This actually comes up all the time in New York.
事实上，这种情况在纽约经常出现。
It's been debated over and over.
这已经被争论了一遍又一遍。
And it never happens.
但它永远不会发生。
And I know exactly why.
我很清楚为什么。
So let's go back to pretty much the very first time a waste-to-energy incinerator was proposed, 1980s New York City.
让我们回到 20 世纪 80 年代的纽约市，那是垃圾焚烧厂第一次被提出的时候。
Back then, New York was stuffing all its trash into these towering landfills all over the city.
当时，纽约将所有垃圾都塞进了全市这些高耸的垃圾填埋场。
Norman Steisel was the commissioner of New York City sanitation, and he remembers.
诺曼·斯泰塞尔（Norman Steisel）是纽约市卫生局局长，他记得。
The trucks literally could not climb the hill.
卡车根本无法爬上山。
It was basically such a sharp peak that they couldn't get to the top to dispose any of the waste.
这基本上是一个如此陡峭的山峰，他们无法到达山顶来处理任何废物。
So they were driving up, basically, a volcano in the Bronx that was built on garbage.
所以他们基本上是在布朗克斯的一座用垃圾建造的火山上行驶。
Right it's all built out of garbage and dirt.
是的，它都是用垃圾和泥土建造的。
And there were these vast underground fires, which took literally years to put out and get under control.
还有这些巨大的地下火灾，实际上花了数年时间才被扑灭并得到控制。
Not only were they scary, the landfills were almost full.
它们不仅令人恐惧，而且垃圾填埋场几乎已满。
So Steisel and the Koch administration decided to put these waste-to-energy incinerators, like the ones they had in Europe then-- one in every borough, the Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Staten Island.
因此，斯泰塞尔和科赫政府决定像当时欧洲的焚烧炉一样，在布朗克斯、皇后区、布鲁克林、曼哈顿、史坦顿岛等每个行政区设立一个焚烧炉，将废物转化为能源。
But the problem in New York City is everywhere you go, someone is there, someone to say not it.
但纽约市的问题无处不在，无论你走到哪里，都有人在那里，有人说不。
In this case, the first incinerator would be built in the Brooklyn Navy Yard right near a community of Hasidic Jews.
在这种情况下，第一座焚烧炉将建在靠近哈西德派犹太人社区的布鲁克林海军造船厂。
Like I said, any community in New York would have come up with a reason they should be not it.
就像我说的，纽约的任何社区都会想出一个不应该这样做的理由。
And the Hasids told Steisel one of theirs.
哈西德家族向斯泰塞尔讲述了他们的其中一件事。
The waste-to-energy incinerator would remind them of the Holocaust experiences.
废物焚烧炉会让他们想起大屠杀的经历。
And when I tried to explain to them that, as a son of a Holocaust survivor myself, I thought they were demeaning that whole experience.
当我试图向他们解释时，作为大屠杀幸存者的儿子，我认为他们贬低了整个经历。
And there was one rabbi in particular who accused me rather publicly of being the young Dr. Mengele, experimenting with the lives of Jewish women and children.
特别是一位拉比，他相当公开地指责我是年轻的门格勒博士，对犹太妇女和儿童的生活进行实验。
Lots of people, for many reasons, did not trust the Steisel-Koch plan in New York.
由于多种原因，很多人不相信纽约的施泰塞尔-科赫计划。
No neighborhood would take them.
没有邻居会接受他们。
But the plan lingered.
但这个计划却被搁置了。
The mayor still wanted to do this seemingly logical, energy generating, less polluting thing for New York City.
市长仍然想为纽约市做这件看似合乎逻辑、能产生能源、污染更少的事情。
But what sealed the fate of the New York incinerator was when New York's garbage became an international incident.
但决定纽约焚化炉命运的却是纽约的垃圾成为国际事件。
This is the continuing saga of a homeless garbage barge.
这是一艘无家可归的垃圾驳船的持续传奇。
3,000 tons of New York garbage floating from port to port, looking for a place to be dumped.
3000吨纽约垃圾从一个港口漂到另一个港口，寻找倾倒的地方。
Here's Tom Brokaw in 1987.
这是 1987 年汤姆·布罗考的照片。
For weeks, night after night, he reported on the wandering Mobro garbage barge.
几个星期以来，他夜复一夜地报道流浪的莫布罗垃圾驳船的情况。
You might have heard about this.
您可能听说过这个。
It was a really big deal.
这确实是一件大事。
Here's what happened.
事情是这样的。
A landfill in Long Island was full.
长岛的一个垃圾填埋场已满。
A guy out there cut a deal to send it to North Carolina.
那里的一个人达成协议，将其发送到北卡罗来纳州。
Ship the garbage on a barge down south, and they'll put it in their landfill.
用驳船把垃圾运到南方，他们会把它扔进垃圾填埋场。
Except once it got to North Carolina, someone said they saw a bedpan on the barge, medical waste.
除了到达北卡罗来纳州后，有人说他们在驳船上看到了一个便盆，里面是医疗废物。
And they wouldn't take it.
但他们不会接受。
So the garbage barge set off on this journey of rejection.
于是垃圾驳船就踏上了这趟拒绝之旅。
Alabama, nope.
阿拉巴马州，不。
Louisiana--
路易斯安那州——
While I would like to help them, we just don't have room for it.
虽然我很想帮助他们，但我们没有空间。
And we do not intend to allow them to bring it into Louisiana.
我们不打算允许他们将其带入路易斯安那州。
The barge tried to go to Mexico.
驳船试图前往墨西哥。
But the Mexican Navy came out into the Gulf and fought them off.
但墨西哥海军进入海湾并击退了他们。
Speaking of geography, the tiny, poor Central American nation of Belize, well, it too says no to the garbage.
说到地理，伯利兹这个贫穷的中美洲小国也对垃圾说不。
The barge led the world news at night.
驳船在夜间引领世界新闻。
It led Johnny Carson .
它领导了约翰尼·卡森。
Take your barge up into the Gulf of Persia.
将您的驳船驶入波斯湾。
And there is Iran.
还有伊朗。
Dump it right there.
把它扔在那里。
Florida?
佛罗里达？
Nope.
没有。
The Bahamas, no. The barge was a tragic figure, a pariah.
巴哈马，不。驳船是一个悲剧人物，一个贱民。
It went more than 5,000 miles back and forth in the ocean.
它在海洋中来回行驶了5000多英里。
And with nowhere to go, it finally returned to New York.
无处可去的它最终回到了纽约。
There were court battles around what to do with it.
关于如何处理它，法庭上曾发生过争论。
And environmentalists seized upon this moment.
环保主义者抓住了这个时机。
Eventually, the city figured out it was mostly paper and cardboard.
最终，该市发现主要是纸张和纸板。
And a bunch of Greenpeace people hung this banner across the garbage, saying, next time, try recycling.
一群绿色和平组织的人把这条横幅挂在垃圾上，说，下次，尝试回收。
You might have thought with all this anxiety about garbage and what to do with it, this would be the moment for European-style waste-to-energy incinerators to take off.
您可能会想到，带着对垃圾以及如何处理垃圾的所有焦虑，这将是欧洲式垃圾焚烧炉腾飞的时刻。
But it turns out, the biggest opponent of waste-to-energy incinerators is the recyclers.
但事实证明，垃圾焚烧厂最大的反对者是回收商。
Yeah, the recyclers.
是的，回收商。
We believe that Americans don't want to burn their trash.
我们相信美国人不想焚烧垃圾。
They'd rather recycle it.
他们宁愿回收它。
And they'd rather produce less of it because they realize that there's a cost to trash.
他们宁愿少生产一些垃圾，因为他们意识到垃圾是有成本的。
This is Eric Goldstein, avid recycler in New York City.
我是埃里克·戈尔茨坦 (Eric Goldstein)，纽约市的热心回收者。
He's been with the National Resource Defense Council for more than 30 years.
他已在国家资源保护委员会工作了 30 多年。
He is resolute against incinerators.
他坚决反对焚烧厂。
He thinks that incinerators actually discourage recycling.
他认为焚化炉实际上不鼓励回收。
They compete for the same stuff.
他们争夺同样的东西。
And less recycling, that's worse for the environment.
回收次数越少，对环境就越不利。
If you don't recycle, he says, then it's like you have to use natural resources to make a new thing every time.
他说，如果你不回收利用，那么就像你每次都必须使用自然资源来制造新东西一样。
It's better to use the plastic from a plastic bottle as much as you possibly can, rather than drill for more oil in order to make brand new ones.
最好尽可能多地使用塑料瓶中的塑料，而不是钻取更多石油来制造全新的石油。
But it seemed weird to me that you'd have to choose.
但我觉得很奇怪你必须做出选择。
Like in Germany, they recycle more than 60% of their garbage and incinerate almost 40%.
与德国一样，他们回收了超过 60% 的垃圾，并焚烧了近 40%。
We went back and forth about this a lot.
我们就这个问题反复讨论了很多次。
But it's better.
但这样更好。
Eric Goldstein It would be better if Germany were to recycle more and compost more and reuse more and generate less waste.
埃里克·戈德斯坦 如果德国能够更多地回收、更多地堆肥、更多地再利用并减少废物的产生，那就更好了。
But they're recycling so much more than we do.
但他们的回收量比我们多得多。
So that's why we need to focus on recycling.
这就是为什么我们需要关注回收。
But then why do we have to not burn trash while we focus on recycling?
但为什么我们在注重回收的同时却不能焚烧垃圾呢？
City officials only have so much time, energy, and resources to transform waste policy so that it places recycling and prevention and composting as the cornerstones.
市政府官员只有有限的时间、精力和资源来转变废物政策，将回收、预防和堆肥作为基石。
Requires a lot of work.
需要做很多工作。
It's not going to be easy.
这并不容易。
And it's probably going to take another decade or so before that transformation is complete in places like New York City.
在纽约市等地，这种转变可能还需要十年左右的时间才能完成。
While that's going on, he says, we can't let officials be distracted by incinerators.
他说，在这种情况发生的同时，我们不能让官员因焚烧炉而分心。
This has been the philosophy that rules New York to this day, focus on recycling.
直到今天，这一直是统治纽约的理念：注重回收。
The latest attempt at getting a European-style waste-to-energy facility in New York happened three years ago in 2012 under Mayor Bloomberg.
三年前的 2012 年，纽约市长布隆伯格 (Bloomberg) 曾尝试在纽约建立一座欧洲风格的垃圾发电设施。
And it did not go well.
但进展并不顺利。
At the time, James Oddo was a councilman on Staten Island.
当时，詹姆斯·奥多是史泰登岛的议员。
And he remembers being at an event when a city government guy approached him.
他记得在一次活动中，一名市政府人员找到了他。
And he said this.
他这样说。
Just keep an open mind.
只要保持开放的心态即可。
Don't fly off the handle.
不要失控。
The guy knew the issue might be sensitive because when it comes to garbage, Staten Island has lost New York City's not it game for decades.
这个家伙知道这个问题可能很敏感，因为在垃圾问题上，史坦顿岛已经输掉了纽约市数十年的比赛。
In 1948, Robert Moses built a landfill on Staten Island.
1948 年，罗伯特·摩西在史泰登岛建造了一个垃圾填埋场。
Fresh Kills, it's old Dutch.
Fresh Kills，是古老的荷兰语。
Means "fresh stream." At the time, he promised it would only be around for three years.
意思是“新鲜的溪流”。当时，他承诺该计划只会持续三年。
50 years later, it's one of the biggest landfills in the world.
50 年后，它成为世界上最大的垃圾填埋场之一。
When you were a kid and you went to the Staten Island Mall on a hot summer day, you used to take a deep breath in the car and get out of the car and run to the mall because you didn't want to deal with the smell.
当你还是个孩子的时候，在炎热的夏日去史坦顿岛购物中心时，你常常在车里深吸一口气，然后下车跑到购物中心，因为你不想处理这种气味。
This history for native Staten Islanders is something that we never forgive.
对于史泰登岛本土居民来说，这段历史是我们永远不会原谅的。
And anytime an issue having to do with solid waste arises, Staten Island elected officials get their back-up.
每当出现与固体废物有关的问题时，史坦顿岛民选官员都会得到支持。
So in 2012, the Bloomberg people called Staten Island to talk about this great new technology for dealing with waste.
因此，2012年，彭博社的人士致电史坦顿岛，谈论这项处理垃圾的伟大新技术。
We're exploring lots of different places to put this facility, they said.
他们说，我们正在探索许多不同的地方来放置这个设施。
Except when the city put out the official document calling for bids, they had only one suggestion for where to build it, Staten Island, on top of the Fresh Kills Landfill.
除了该市发布官方招标文件时，他们对于建造地点只有一个建议，那就是位于 Fresh Kills 垃圾填埋场顶部的史泰登岛。
James Oddo predictably flipped out.
詹姆斯·奥多不出所料地发怒了。
He said, no.
他说，不。
Now, our dance card was filled.
现在，我们的舞蹈卡已经满了。
And now it was time for some other boroughs to run point on this new technology.
现在是时候让其他一些行政区推广这项新技术了。
It wasn't going to be Staten Island.
它不会是史坦顿岛。
Manhattan, 42nd Street.
曼哈顿42街。
Zoe Chace Times Square.
佐伊·切斯时代广场。
Times Square.
时代广场。
I want it right there on Times Square, where all the tourists are, where all the attractions are.
我希望它就在时代广场，那里有所有的游客，所有的景点都在那里。
Let it go in a place like that.
就让它去这样的地方吧。
This is Beryl Thurman.
这是贝丽尔·瑟曼。
She works on environmental justice issues.
她致力于环境正义问题。
And she lives on Staten Island.
她住在斯塔滕岛。
Staten Island doesn't trust the City of New York in anything that has to do with garbage.
史泰登岛在任何与垃圾有关的事情上都不信任纽约市。
Even knowing all this, the Bloomberg administration moved ahead with their plan.
即使知道这一切，布隆伯格政府仍继续推进他们的计划。
In April 2012, they got in touch with the people who had bid on the proposal and organized a bus tour out to Fresh Kills to look at the proposed site.
2012 年 4 月，他们联系了投标该提案的人，并组织了一次前往 Fresh Kills 的巴士之旅，参观拟议的地点。
Only something very weird happened right at the time the bus was supposed to show up.
只是在公共汽车应该出现的时候发生了一些非常奇怪的事情。
A nearby compost plant, which was mostly wood chips caught on fire.
附近的一个堆肥厂着火了，堆肥厂主要是木屑。
And it was actually a major fire.
这实际上是一场大火。
There was smoke blowing up over the interstate.
州际公路上空冒出浓烟。
You could see it from Manhattan.
你可以从曼哈顿看到它。
The bus tour was canceled.
巴士之旅被取消。
The smoke reminded Staten Island of what burning garbage might mean for them.
烟雾让史坦顿岛想起燃烧垃圾对他们来说可能意味着什么。
And the next day, when Bloomberg went out to thank the firefighters, he got an earful from the Staten Island politicians infuriated about the waste-to-energy proposal on Staten Island.
第二天，当布隆伯格出去感谢消防队员时，他听到了史坦顿岛政客们对史坦顿岛垃圾发电提案的愤怒。
In an hour-and-a-half after he left, Bloomberg's deputy mayor pulled the deal.
在他离开一个半小时后，布隆伯格副市长取消了这笔交易。
No incinerator or gasification or heat turning trash into energy European-style nothing.
没有焚烧炉、气化或热量将垃圾转化为欧洲式的能源。
Not in New York, where someone is always not it.
纽约不行，那里的人总是不是这样的。
And while I was researching this story, someone raised the point that the compost fire was awfully well timed.
当我研究这个故事时，有人提出堆肥火灾的时机非常好。
I asked Beryl about this.
我向贝里尔询问了此事。
Were there conspiracy theories about who started the fire?
关于是谁放火的，是否有阴谋论？
Well, you know, it was-- you always have that in the back of your mind.
嗯，你知道，那是——你心里总是有这样的想法。
But you know.
但你知道。
It was fortuitous.
这是偶然的。
Beryl Thurman It was, wasn't it?
贝丽尔·瑟曼 是的，不是吗？
Wasn't that amazing how that worked out?
结果是不是很神奇？
What?
什么？
[CHUCKLING] Zoe Chace Are you saying what it sounds like you're saying?
[咯咯笑] Zoe Chace 你说的是听起来像你在说的吗？
I am not saying anything, other than it was really kind of ironic.
我什么也没说，只是这确实有点讽刺。
It's just one of those coincidences.
这只是这些巧合之一。
The official word from the fire department said the wood chips set themselves ablaze.
消防部门的官方消息称，木片自燃。
I guess that happens.
我想这会发生。
Fresh Kills is closed.
新鲜杀戮已关闭。
New York City's landfills are full.
纽约市的垃圾填埋场已满。
Now the plan is for New York to incinerate a lot more of its garbage, more than a third.
现在，纽约的计划是焚烧更多垃圾，超过三分之一。
But the catch is not in New York.
但问题并不在纽约。
New York will pay to haul our garbage to places like Niagara Falls and Delaware Valley to waste-to-energy incinerators that were built there 20 years ago.
纽约将出钱将我们的垃圾运到尼亚加拉大瀑布和特拉华谷等地，运往那里 20 年前建造的垃圾焚烧炉。
So those places will get the benefits-- some electricity and some heat from my Chinese takeout container.
所以这些地方将会得到好处——从我的中国外卖容器中得到一些电力和一些热量。
And you're welcome.
不客气。
Because New York certainly does not want that here.
因为纽约当然不希望这样。
Zoe Chace is one of the producers of our program.
佐伊·查斯是我们节目的制作人之一。
[MUSIC - "DON'T THROW YOUR LOVE IN THE GARBAGE CAN" BY VICKI ANDERSON]
[音乐 - “不要把你的爱扔进垃圾桶”，作者：Vicki ANDERSON]
Credits Ira Glass Our program was produced today by Brian Reed with Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
图片来源：Ira Glass 我们今天的节目由 Brian Reed 与 Zoe Chace、Sean Cole、Stephanie Foo、Chana Joffe-Walt、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Editing help from Joel Lovell.
乔尔·洛弗尔 (Joel Lovell) 的编辑帮助。
Production help from Simon Adler.
西蒙·阿德勒 (Simon Adler) 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon is our production manager.
艾米丽·康登 (Emily Condon) 是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson is our office manager.
埃莉斯·伯格森 (Elise Bergerson) 是我们的办公室经理。
Elna Baker scouts stories for our show.
艾尔娜·贝克为我们的节目寻找故事。
Research help today from Michelle Harris and Christopher Swetala.
米歇尔·哈里斯 (Michelle Harris) 和克里斯托弗·斯韦塔拉 (Christopher Swetala) 今天为研究提供了帮助。
Music help from Damien Grey and from Rob Geddis.
达米安·格雷 (Damien Gray) 和罗布·格迪斯 (Rob Geddis) 提供音乐帮助。
Adriana Cardona-Maguigad did a lot of our investigation into Puerto Rican drug addicts as a fellow with the Social Justice News Nexus at Northwestern University.
作为西北大学社会正义新闻中心的研究员，阿德里安娜·卡多纳-马吉加德对波多黎各吸毒者进行了大量调查。
She went to Puerto Rico with support from the Fund for Investigative Journalism.
她在新闻调查基金的支持下前往波多黎各。
Bill Healy, Kari Lyderson, and the Center for Investigative Journalism in Puerto Rico helped with reporting.
比尔·希利 (Bill Healy)、卡里·莱德森 (Kari Lyderson) 和波多黎各新闻调查中心协助报道。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks as always today to our program's co-founder, Mr. Tory Malatia.
今天一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Tory Malatia 先生。
He's doing this new thing where whenever he walks out of a room, he says, hasta la vista, baby.
他正在做一件新事，每当他走出房间时，他都会说，hasta la vista，宝贝。
And then he turns and says--
然后他转身说——
That's not racist because I'm in Spanish 3, so I know Spanish.
这不是种族主义，因为我学的是西班牙语 3，所以我懂西班牙语。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life .
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - "DON'T THROW YOUR LOVE IN THE GARBAGE CAN" BY VICKI ANDERSON]
[音乐 - “不要把你的爱扔进垃圾桶”，作者：Vicki ANDERSON]
This American Life This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
This American Life This American Life 与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。