552: Need To Know Basis - This American Life

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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #552 | March 27, 2015 552: Need To Know Basis Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 552 集 | 2015 年 3 月 27 日 552：需要知道 基础注释：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。

If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.

如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。

Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue Ira Glass Josh likes to go birdwatching at this park in Chicago right by the lake.

序言 Ira Glass 乔什喜欢去芝加哥湖边的这个公园观鸟。

And generally, he's the youngest person there-- like, by far.

一般来说，他是那里最年轻的人——到目前为止。

He's in his 20s.

他20多岁了。

Usually, it's older couples.

通常是年长的夫妇。

One of the first times that I went there, I spent the majority of the morning with a couple of old ladies trying to find a warbler.

我第一次去那里时，早上的大部分时间我都和几位老太太一起试图寻找莺。

That afternoon, he walked around with two old men.

那天下午，他和两个老人一起散步。

And when Josh knelt down to get a better look at a bird, one of the men remarked, I remember when I could do that.

当乔什跪下来更好地观察一只鸟时，其中一个男人说，我记得我什么时候可以做到这一点。

You know, kneel down?

跪下你知道吗？

So that's your scene.

这就是你的场景。

Those are your people.

这些是你的人。

Absolutely.

绝对地。

Ira Glass So it was a refreshing change one day last fall when Josh got to the park and a college kid came up to him-- like 18, 19 years old.

Ira Glass 所以，去年秋天的一天，当乔什到达公园时，一个大学生向他走来——大约 18、19 岁，这是一个令人耳目一新的变化。

And they started talking about birds, what Josh had seen that day.

他们开始谈论鸟类，谈论乔什那天看到的东西。

And he starts saying things that he had seen, which were really impressive.

他开始讲述他所看到的事情，这些事情确实令人印象深刻。

Basically his whole list was new to me, at that park, at least.

基本上他的整个清单对我来说都是新的，至少在那个公园是这样。

He had seen a northern shrike earlier, some longspurs that were flying over, snow buntings, which I hadn't seen ever, actually.

他早些时候见过一只北方伯劳，一些飞过的长刺，还有雪鹀，实际上我从未见过。

And this kid is also super knowledgeable, not in a show-offy way.

而且这小子还学识渊博，不是卖弄的。

He just knew tons about birds.

他对鸟类了解甚多。

So it was fun to talk to him.

所以和他谈话很有趣。

And they decided to walk around the park together.

他们决定一起去公园散步。

And they head down this path into the trees.

他们沿着这条小路进入树林。

So it's like dense, with trees around them on both sides.

所以它就像茂密的，两边都有树木。

And the path itself is really narrow, just like two or three feet wide.

而且那条路本身也很窄，也就两三尺宽。

At a certain point, he spots a sparrow.

在某个时刻，他发现了一只麻雀。

And we get our binoculars on it.

我们把双筒望远镜放在上面。

And he says, oh, a fox sparrow.

他说，哦，一只狐狸麻雀。

And I said, I don't know if that's a fox sparrow.

我说，我不知道那是不是狐狸麻雀。

It looks-- the coloration looks right.

看起来——颜色看起来不错。

It's really deep red.

确实是深红色。

But it looks a little too small for me.

但对我来说看起来有点太小了。

It looks more like a song sparrow in size.

它的大小看起来更像是一只歌雀。

I think I have those?

我想我有那些？

Josh He said, I think I have those.

乔什他说，我想我有这些。

And then the kid sets down his backpack on the ground.

然后孩子把背包放在地上。

And he opens the front flap.

然后他打开前盖。

And Josh assumes he's going to take out some photos or something to compare to this bird.

乔什假设他会拿出一些照片或其他东西来与这只鸟进行比较。

But the kid pulls out two little white bags-- or maybe they're envelopes-- reaches inside them--

但是孩子拿出两个白色的小袋子——或者也许它们是信封——把手伸进里面——

And just delicately shuffles out two birds on the ground.

然后轻轻地将两只鸟拖到地上。

And sure enough, it's a song sparrow and a fox sparrow.

果然，是歌雀和狐雀。

Wait, wait, wait.

等等，等等，等等。

He opens two bags.

他打开两个袋子。

And there are two of the exact birds you're talking about in the two bags?

两个袋子里有两只正是你所说的鸟吗？

Right.

正确的。

That's correct.

这是正确的。

Ira Glass Like just dead birds?

艾拉·格拉斯 就像死鸟一样？

Just dead birds.

只是死鸟。

Just the dead birds that we were talking about.

只是我们正在谈论的死鸟。

The kid apologizes for the smell.

孩子为气味道歉。

Says he found them dead on the ground the day before.

说他前一天发现他们死在地上。

They weren't taxidermied or anything, and they were starting to deteriorate.

它们没有经过标本剥制或任何其他处理，而且它们已经开始恶化。

And after placing them on the ground, the college kid looks at the sizes of the two birds and says to Josh, oh, you're right.

将它们放在地上后，大学生看着两只鸟的大小并对乔什说，哦，你是对的。

Like a fox sparrow is bigger than a song sparrow.

就像狐雀比歌雀大一样。

And then he carefully puts the two birds back into their white envelopes and into the knapsack.

然后他小心翼翼地将两只鸟放回白色信封和背包中。

And Josh acts like this is the most normal thing in the world when, in fact, he told me this is totally weird.

乔什表现得好像这是世界上最正常的事情，而事实上，他告诉我这完全是奇怪的。

This is not something birders ever do.

这不是观鸟者所做的事情。

He has found out since it is actually illegal to have any migratory birds, dead or alive.

他发现，饲养任何候鸟，无论是死的还是活的，实际上都是违法的。

And then they spend four or five hours together that day.

然后那天他们在一起度过了四五个小时。

And Josh says nothing about it-- asks nothing, never brings it up.

乔什对此只字不提——什么也没问，也从不提起。

I couldn't envision a scenario in which saying something would lead to a good conclusion.

我无法想象一个场景，说某件事会带来一个好的结论。

For instance, maybe the kid would think it was intrusive or rude for him to ask.

例如，孩子可能会认为他这样问是侵入性的或粗鲁的。

Or maybe the kid was doing something shady.

或许这孩子正在做一些见不得人的事。

Might have been not the best thing to ask, isolated behind this hedge.

孤立在树篱后面可能不是最好的问题。

You know?

你知道？

Oh, right.

哦，对了。

You're, like, alone in some thicket.

你就像，独自一人在某个灌木丛中。

Yes.

是的。

Ira Glass Did you get the feeling like anything could happen?

Ira Glass 你有没有感觉什么事情都有可能发生？

Like, do you feel like if you had asked the wrong question, he would have reached into the bag and pulled out, like, a human ear?

就像，你是否觉得如果你问错了问题，他会把手伸进袋子里，像人耳朵一样掏出来？

That was what prevented me from asking, yeah.

这就是阻止我问的原因，是的。

I did talk to the college student.

我确实和那个大学生谈过。

He told me at the time, he didn't know that keeping birds was illegal.

他当时告诉我，他不知道养鸟是违法的。

But now that he does, he's gotten rid of all of his dead birds.

但现在他做到了，他已经处理掉了所有死鸟。

And he asked me not to use his name here on the radio.

他要求我不要在广播中使用他的名字。

He says in all, he picked up maybe 15 or 20 birds.

他说他一共抓到了大概 15 到 20 只鸟。

At some point he realized he could just find them near certain buildings with big windows.

在某个时候，他意识到他可以在某些有大窗户的建筑物附近找到它们。

They would fly into the windows and die.

他们会飞进窗户然后死掉。

And he didn't see the harm.

他并没有看到这有什么坏处。

He had no idea that Josh still wonders about this today.

他不知道乔什今天仍然想知道这个问题。

Yeah, he should have asked me more about it if he wanted to know.

是的，如果他想知道的话，他应该多问我一些。

Well, he was a little scared to ask you about it.

好吧，他有点害怕问你这件事。

Mhm.

嗯。

Ira Glass He was scared of what the answer might be.

艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 他很害怕答案可能是什么。

Yeah, I guess that really freaked him out.

是的，我想这确实把他吓坏了。

I guess it is kind of gross to be carrying dead birds around in your backpack.

我觉得背包里装着死鸟有点恶心。

And if he'd asked, like, well, what are you going to do with them?

如果他问，比如，你打算怎么处理它们？

What would you have said?

你会说什么？

Nothing, really.

没什么，真的。

I just kind of keep them around.

我只是把它们留在身边。

See, that's creepy.

看吧，这太令人毛骨悚然了。

[COLLEGE KID LAUGHS]

[大学生笑]

College Kid It's interesting to have them to look at closely so you can see things you wouldn't see on birds that are out in the wild.

大学生 让他们仔细观察很有趣，这样您就可以看到在野外鸟类身上看不到的东西。

So all pretty innocent.

所以大家都很无辜。

But Josh didn't know that.

但乔什并不知道这一点。

In fact, Josh still thinks that he did the right thing not to bring it up with him.

事实上，乔什仍然认为他没有向他提起这件事是正确的。

Like, if-- let's say he had his entire bag full of birds and his car full of birds, and I started asking questions, and he knew what he was doing was illegal.

就像，假设他的整个袋子里装满了鸟，他的车里也装满了鸟，我开始问问题，他知道他所做的事情是非法的。

Then it probably wouldn't have been the best idea for me to do that.

那么对我来说这样做可能不是最好的主意。

You mean like he's got a gun in that bag, too?

你是说他包里也有一把枪？

I don't know.

我不知道。

Ira Glass And then the next person he sees on the trail, he reaches into the bag, and he pulls out, like, your head.

艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 然后他在路上看到的下一个人，他把手伸进包里，然后拉出，就像，你的头。

This is what happens to people who ask questions.

这就是提问的人会遇到的情况。

And maybe sometimes too many questions is one.

也许有时问题太多就是其中之一。

You know?

你知道？

From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.

来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

A little information can change everything, make something that seems totally menacing totally benign.

一点点信息就可以改变一切，让看似完全具有威胁性的事情变得完全良性。

And the problem is it is not always clear when to disclose that information.

问题是并不总是清楚何时披露该信息。

In fact, it might not even occur to you to disclose it.

事实上，您可能根本没有想到要透露这一点。

If you're in the other side, you might not feel like it's your right to ask-- like Josh with this kid.

如果你在另一边，你可能会觉得你没有权利提出要求——就像乔希和这个孩子一样。

He felt like he didn't know him well enough to pry.

他觉得自己还不够了解他，无法窥探。

Well, today we have stories where people's lives change in amazing, dramatic ways because they decided to disclose or not to disclose certain facts about themselves.

好吧，今天我们有一些故事，人们的生活以惊人的、戏剧性的方式发生变化，因为他们决定披露或不披露有关自己的某些事实。

Stay with us.

留在我们身边。

Act One, Full Disclosure.

第一幕，全面披露。

You know, most of us, we basically just keep stuff to ourselves.

你知道，我们大多数人基本上只是把东西留给自己。

Right?

正确的？

We withhold information.

我们保留信息。

We do not say everything.

我们并没有说出一切。

You run into an acquaintance on the street, and they ask you, how are you?

你在街上遇到熟人，他们问你，你好吗？

You generally do not tell them how you are, really.

事实上，你通常不会告诉他们你的情况。

Adult life means we provide information on a need-to-know basis.

成人生活意味着我们在需要知道的基础上提供信息。

Your mom asks you on the phone about something you think that the two of you are just going to fight about.

你妈妈在电话里问你一些你认为你们两个会吵架的事情。

Sometimes you dodge, right?

有时候你会躲闪，对吗？

You do not talk about things that you don't want to talk about.

你不会谈论你不想谈论的事情。

But what would it be like to not live like that?

但如果不这样生活会怎样呢？

Well, Michael Leviton knows.

好吧，迈克尔·莱维顿知道。

I just have a very unusual family.

我只是有一个非常不寻常的家庭。

They valued honesty to an extreme extent.

他们极其重视诚实。

Michael's in his 30s, and he was raised by parents who encouraged him and his siblings to tell everything, the whole truth, all the time, believing that it hurts relationships when we avoid awkward truths, that we all should just man up and talk things through.

迈克尔已经 30 多岁了，他的父母鼓励他和他的兄弟姐妹始终说出一切、全部真相，他们相信，当我们避免尴尬的事实时，会伤害人际关系，我们都应该勇敢地把事情说清楚。

We should work things out.

我们应该解决问题。

And being honest also means being true to who you are, right?

诚实也意味着忠于自己，对吧？

Which, obviously, anybody wants for their kids.

显然，任何人都希望自己的孩子能够做到这一点。

But hearing how far his family went with this, it makes you really understand how incredibly strange your daily life would be if you were to never withhold the truth.

但听到他的家人在这件事上采取了多大的行动，你就会真正明白，如果你从不隐瞒真相，你的日常生活将会变得多么不可思议。

Like, for a long time, Michael believed that if somebody asked him a question-- I mean, like, any question at all-- he had to answer it honestly.

就像，很长一段时间以来，迈克尔相信，如果有人问他一个问题——我的意思是，任何问题——他都必须诚实地回答。

This is funny because in job interviews, people would ask me what my biggest flaw was.

这很有趣，因为在工作面试中，人们会问我最大的缺点是什么。

And I would go into a long rant about all my flaws and all the negative things anyone's ever said about me.

我会长篇大论地抱怨我的所有缺点以及任何人对我说过的所有负面言论。

And people would look at me-- I got used to this expression of horror.

人们会看着我——我已经习惯了这种恐惧的表情。

And sometimes it was kind of comic.

有时这有点滑稽。

People would laugh.

人们会笑。

Like, wow, you thought you had to actually answer that?

就像，哇，你认为你必须真正回答这个问题吗？

You're clearly supposed--

你显然认为——

That's amazing.

太棒了。

That's really amazing.

这真是太神奇了。

Yeah, you are the only person in the history of job interviews to have ever done that.

是的，你是求职面试史上唯一这样做过的人。

Not the only person.

不是唯一一个人。

Ira Glass That's true.

艾拉·格拉斯 确实如此。

His brother Josh does the same thing.

他的兄弟乔什也做同样的事情。

More on that later.

稍后会详细介绍。

Let's stay with Michael for now.

现在让我们留在迈克尔身边。

OK.

好的。

One time, I went on a date when I was in college.

有一次，我在大学时去约会。

And I went on this date.

我就在这个约会去了。

And I spent the whole date explaining why she should want to be with me-- you know, what was great about me-- and also why other people didn't want to be with me.

我整个约会都在解释为什么她应该想和我在一起——你知道，我的优点是什么——以及为什么其他人不想和我在一起。

I'm saying all the bad things that ever happened to me, why I was rejected by the world.

我说的是发生在我身上的所有坏事，为什么我被世界拒绝。

Now, that was just being honest.

现在，这只是诚实。

I was just telling her all the information necessary, in my mind, to decide whether to be with me.

我只是告诉她我心中所有必要的信息，以决定是否和我在一起。

I thought it was my responsibility as a person on a date to explain everything they were dealing with from the first moment of the date so that they could make an informed decision about how to move forward.

我认为作为一个约会的人，我有责任解释他们从约会的第一刻起所处理的一切，以便他们能够就如何继续前进做出明智的决定。

That's what I love about this story, is that you thought you were doing a good job.

这就是我喜欢这个故事的原因，那就是你认为自己做得很好。

You thought you were acing the date.

你以为你在约会中表现出色。

Oh, yes.

哦是的。

Ira Glass For a long time, if Michael decided that he didn't want to hang out with somebody anymore, he would just, you know, come out and say it-- let's not be friends.

艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 很长一段时间，如果迈克尔决定不再和某人一起出去玩，他就会出来说，你知道，我们不要成为朋友了。

When he would go and hear musician buddies of his perform, they would ask him afterwards, how'd you like the show?

当他去听他的音乐家朋友表演时，他们会在事后问他，你觉得这个演出怎么样？

He would do the thing that nobody ever does.

他会做没人做过的事。

He would actually tell them, you know, the arrangements could have been better.

他实际上会告诉他们，你知道，安排本来可以更好。

You shouldn't play with this band.

你不应该和这个乐队一起演奏。

That first number should be in double time.

第一个数字应该是双倍时间。

If somebody told Michael about a TV show that they liked, or really if they expressed any opinion at all on any subject-- like they told him they loved chocolate-- he could not help himself from offering his own opinion, forcefully.

如果有人告诉迈克尔他们喜欢的电视节目，或者实际上如果他们对任何主题表达了任何意见 - 就像他们告诉他他们喜欢巧克力一样 - 他会情不自禁地强行提出自己的意见。

He hates chocolate.

他讨厌巧克力。

And they would see it as, why would this person say this thing?

他们会认为，这个人为什么会这么说？

Why would this person trash something I love so immediately?

为什么这个人会立即扔掉我喜欢的东西？

They must just be doing it as an act of aggression.

他们这样做肯定只是一种侵略行为。

But really, it was more a gut instinct from my childhood, that conversation was expressing whatever was going on.

但实际上，这更多的是我童年时期的直觉，谈话是在表达正在发生的事情。

In other words, you expressed your honest feelings about chocolate.

换句话说，你表达了你对巧克力的真实感受。

Now it's my turn to express my honest feelings about chocolate.

现在轮到我表达我对巧克力的真实感受了。

Yeah.

是的。

Ira Glass But would you do things, like, you would perceive, in a conversation with somebody you just met, oh, this person's kind of bossy.

艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：但是你会做一些事情，比如，你会认为，在与你刚认识的人谈话时，哦，这个人有点专横。

And then would you say, like, you know, I think you're very bossy?

然后你会说，你知道，我认为你非常专横吗？

A lot of the time, things like that would happen.

很多时候，类似的事情都会发生。

Yeah.

是的。

A lot of time, I would feel like it was my job to observe things and to tell people how they were and go like, oh, it's funny.

很多时候，我觉得我的工作就是观察事物并告诉人们他们的情况，然后就说，哦，这很有趣。

You know, you do this thing.

你知道，你做这件事。

And I wouldn't notice that it was triggering to people to say something like that, to go, oh, you notice you're very controlling?

我不会注意到这会促使人们说出这样的话，哦，你注意到你的控制欲很强吗？

Have you noticed that?

你注意到了吗？

Like, why are you like that?

比如，你为什么这样？

And I would ask these questions that would lead in horrible directions all the time.

我会问这些问题，这些问题总是会导致可怕的方向。

See, I think all of us have met people who will say, well, I just tell it how it is.

看，我想我们所有人都遇到过这样的人，他们会说，好吧，我只是告诉它是怎么回事。

And people don't like to hear the truth.

人们不喜欢听到真相。

And I think most of us just feel like, well, that person is just an asshole or just has something wrong with them, that they don't give a damn about other people's feelings.

我认为我们大多数人只是觉得，那个人就是个混蛋，或者只是有什么问题，他们根本不在乎别人的感受。

And what you're saying is somehow you learned this as a kind of, like, strategy for dealing with the world from the start.

你所说的是，不知何故，你从一开始就将其视为一种与世界打交道的策略。

Yeah.

是的。

And to me, it was kind of like an exciting conversational thing to do, to be like, let's talk about ourselves.

对我来说，这有点像一件令人兴奋的对话事情，就像，让我们谈谈我们自己。

Everyone's having these small-talk conversations.

每个人都在进行这些闲聊。

They're so pointless and boring.

它们是如此毫无意义和无聊。

Really, we should get to the real stuff immediately.

确实，我们应该立即开始讨论实际问题。

This is so interesting.

这太有趣了。

I'm learning about you.

我正在学习你。

And it'll be much more real and interesting.

而且它会更加真实和有趣。

You know, which in a way is so idealistic.

你知道，这在某种程度上是非常理想主义的。

Think about for a second all the people pleasers who will say anything in a conversation just to kind of get by, all the folks who spend years in therapy getting the courage to tell people what they really think.

想一想，那些讨好别人的人，他们会在谈话中说任何话，只是为了过日子，所有那些花了多年时间接受治疗的人，都有勇气告诉别人他们的真实想法。

Speaking for myself, I feel like I don't even know what I think half the time or what I believe.

就我自己而言，我觉得我有一半时间都不知道自己在想什么，也不知道自己相信什么。

And I have lots of conversations where I know what I believe, and I don't say it because I don't want to have conflict.

我有很多谈话，我知道我相信什么，但我不说出来是因为我不想发生冲突。

I want to avoid conflict.

我想避免冲突。

And I think that lots of us are like that.

我认为我们很多人都是这样的。

Not Michael.

不是迈克尔。

His parents taught him, be stronger than that.

他的父母教导他，要坚强。

I don't know what Michael talked to you about.

我不知道迈克尔和你谈了什么。

This is Michael's dad, Mark.

这是迈克尔的父亲马克。

Everybody says that he was brutally honest when his kids were growing up.

每个人都说他在孩子们成长过程中非常诚实。

He made his living in the music business.

他以音乐事业为生。

And all of his life he has also worked, appropriately enough, as a professional critic.

在他的一生中，他也恰如其分地担任职业评论家。

Michael's mom is a therapist who will tell you straight out--

迈克尔的妈妈是一位治疗师，她会直接告诉你——

I just can't lie.

我就是不能撒谎。

Ira Glass But Michael's dad told me he looks back on his kids' childhoods with a lot of regret for just how harshly he would tell everybody the truth all the time, as he saw it, and especially for how frank he was about things with his own kids.

艾拉·格拉斯 但迈克尔的父亲告诉我，当他回顾孩子们的童年时，他感到非常遗憾，因为他总是如此严厉地告诉每个人真相，正如他所见，尤其是他对自己孩子的事情是多么坦率。

From my point of view, some of my part was not very age appropriate, let's say.

从我的角度来看，我的某些角色不太适合我的年龄。

We kind of revealed to the children information about our marriage that most parents, I don't think, would reveal.

我们向孩子们透露了有关我们婚姻的信息，我认为大多数父母都不会透露。

And more or less left the kids to deal with it.

或多或少地让孩子们去处理它。

Michael had told me about this.

迈克尔告诉过我这件事。

There were a few stories of parental over-sharing.

有一些父母过度分享的故事。

But the one that I think captured just how disturbingly far this could go sometimes happened while his parents were splitting up.

但我认为，有时发生在他父母分居时，这件事可能会发展到多么令人不安的地步。

His parents divorced when he and his siblings were teenagers.

当他和他的兄弟姐妹十几岁时，他的父母离婚了。

And every year back then, the family would go to a place I was really surprised to hear exists at all-- family therapy camp, where counseling sessions were done in public throughout the day in front of other people.

那时，每年，一家人都会去一个让我感到非常惊讶的地方——家庭治疗营，在那里，咨询课程全天在其他人面前公开进行。

And so they're at this camp, and their parents are having troubles.

所以他们在这个营地，他们的父母遇到了麻烦。

And in front of other families and therapists and also in front of their own children-- aged 13, 16, and 19-- Michael's parents hashed out their issues.

在其他家庭和治疗师以及他们自己的孩子（13 岁、16 岁和 19 岁）面前，迈克尔的父母详细讨论了他们的问题。

So, for instance, I remember one therapy session that my mother did that was all about how she felt being married to my dad.

举例来说，我记得我母亲做过的一次治疗，内容就是她与我父亲结婚的感受。

About feeling invisible, about these kinds of-- talking about very intense, personal-- like her despair and the things that she dealt with in that marriage.

关于感觉被忽视，关于这些——谈论非常强烈的、个人的——比如她的绝望和她在那段婚姻中处理的事情。

And also, I got to see the man my mother was leaving my father for.

而且，我还见到了我母亲要离开我父亲去寻找的那个男人。

They would all be there and talk about their feelings towards each other, talk about what had happened, talk about the grievances they had with each other, fights.

他们都会在那里谈论彼此的感情，谈论发生的事情，谈论彼此之间的恩怨，争吵。

They would yell at each other and accuse each other of things and kind of air dirt about what the other had done.

他们会互相大喊大叫，互相指责对方的所作所为。

And it was all in front of us.

而这一切就在我们面前。

But did the parents understand like, oh, that was a problem?

但父母是否明白，哦，这是一个问题？

I don't think so.

我不这么认为。

I think that they, at the time, were very much like, we are speaking our truth.

我认为他们当时非常喜欢，我们正在说出我们的真相。

The kids should know what happened.

孩子们应该知道发生了什么。

And these are our feelings.

这些都是我们的感受。

And they can just imagine it, but it'd be better if they actually knew what was going on and they knew how we felt.

他们只能想象，但如果他们真的知道发生了什么并且知道我们的感受那就更好了。

Just to be clear, at the time, Michael agreed with this.

需要澄清的是，当时迈克尔同意这一点。

I was like, oh, this is great.

我当时想，哦，这太棒了。

This is how it should be.

事情应该是这样的。

This is the honest way to deal with it.

这是诚实的处理方式。

Everyone else would just hide their divorces, the cowards.

其他人都是胆小鬼，只会​​隐瞒自己的离婚经历。

They would deal with their divorce in private.

他们会私下处理离婚事宜。

And it would be very safe for everyone.

这对每个人来说都是非常安全的。

But it was actually a lie.

但这实际上是一个谎言。

The kids wouldn't really know what was going on with their parents.

孩子们根本不知道父母到底发生了什么。

So you felt, actually, superior to others.

所以你实际上感觉自己比别人优越。

That was a big part of it, I think, that other people are cowards.

我认为，这在很大程度上是因为其他人都是胆小鬼。

And they're very weak.

而且他们非常虚弱。

And they can't handle the truth.

他们无法面对真相。

And they're afraid to express who they really are.

他们害怕表达自己的真实身份。

They're inauthentic out of fear.

他们出于恐惧而变得不真实。

And we are actually bravely being authentic, expressing how we really feel and not hiding things.

事实上，我们勇敢地表现出真实的感受，表达我们的真实感受，而不是隐瞒事情。

So these three children grow up like this.

于是这三个孩子就这样长大了。

And they head out into the world as adults.

他们作为成年人走向世界。

And they had to confront the fact that these are not the rules that the rest of us are playing under.

他们必须面对这样一个事实：这些并不是我们其他人所遵循的规则。

And the dad says that he knows that he trained them to live in a world that does not exist, a world where people are way more frank with each other than we really are.

父亲说他知道他训练他们生活在一个不存在的世界里，一个人们彼此之间比我们真实的更加坦诚的世界。

Look, how do you create the world that should exist except by acting as if?

看看，除了假装，你如何创造出应该存在的世界？

Acting the way you want to to make the world through your own actions?

按照你想要的方式行事，通过自己的行动创造世界？

Three siblings are now in their 20s and 30s.

三个兄弟姐妹现在分别是20多岁和30多岁。

And being honest has meant different things to each of them.

诚实对他们每个人来说意味着不同的事情。

For Michael's sister Miriam, it's been the easiest.

对于迈克尔的妹妹米里亚姆来说，这是最简单的。

She said she knows that she is not somebody that anybody would ever tell a secret to.

她说她知道她不是任何人都会泄露秘密的人。

And there are times she can't help herself from saying the truth.

有时她会情不自禁地说出真相。

Sometimes, like, in work meetings, I'll disagree with something.

有时，比如在工作会议上，我会不同意某些事情。

And then I think, why did I say that?

然后我想，我为什么这么说？

But it's manageable, she says.

但她说，这是可以控制的。

No bad consequences.

没有什么不好的后果。

Michael's brother Josh is also still a believer, which is remarkable considering the one big life-changing way that this level of honesty has affected him.

迈克尔的兄弟乔什（Josh）也仍然是一名信徒，考虑到这种程度的诚实对他的生活产生了巨大的改变，这一点是值得注意的。

He trained for seven years to work in law enforcement, to be one of those experts who analyzes crime scenes and figures out what kind of gun was used and the bullet trajectories and all that stuff.

他接受了七年的执法培训，成为分析犯罪现场并找出使用的枪支类型以及子弹轨迹等所有内容的专家之一。

He has a master's degree in forensic ballistics.

他拥有法医弹道学硕士学位。

But he doesn't have a job doing this because when he's asked about his drug use in job interviews, he always admits that in 1997, when he was 14 years old, he tried mushrooms one time.

但他并没有做这件事的工作，因为当他在工作面试中被问及吸毒情况时，他总是承认，1997 年，当时他 14 岁，他曾尝试过一次蘑菇。

People always just ask me, well, why did you tell them about that?

人们总是问我，你为什么要告诉他们这件事？

Is there a record of it?

有记录吗？

And no, there's not a record of anything.

不，没有任何记录。

But I feel like I have to tell the truth.

但我觉得我必须说实话。

I just never thought about lying, even.

我什至从来没有想过撒谎。

I didn't even consider it.

我什至没有考虑过。

And it seems like everybody's saying that it is OK to lie in certain circumstances because everybody else does.

似乎每个人都说在某些情况下撒谎是可以的，因为其他人都这样做。

I kind of look at it like in sports.

我有点像体育运动一样看待它。

It's kind of saying, these athletes that take steroids, they have to do it because everybody takes steroids in order to compete.

这有点像说，这些服用类固醇的运动员，他们必须这样做，因为每个人都服用类固醇来参加比赛。

And I kind of want to succeed without taking steroids, even in a world that takes steroids, if that makes sense.

我有点想在不服用类固醇的情况下取得成功，即使是在一个服用类固醇的世界里，如果这有意义的话。

Michael, meanwhile, seems to have had a much harder time than either of his siblings when it comes to honesty.

与此同时，在诚实方面，迈克尔似乎比他的兄弟姐妹要困难得多。

By the time he was in his late 20s, Michael had noticed that acting exactly the way that he thought a principled person should be acting, he was constantly getting in all these awful clashes with people-- like, all the time.

到了 20 多岁的时候，迈克尔注意到，如果他的行为完全符合他认为有原则的人应该采取的行为方式，他就会不断地与人们发生所有这些可怕的冲突——就像，一直如此。

And it was confusing.

这很令人困惑。

And he didn't like it.

但他不喜欢这样。

And the part of his life where it was especially vexing was dating.

他生活中最令人烦恼的部分就是约会。

Over and over, he would meet somebody he really liked, go out on a date, and then they'd never want to see him again.

一次又一次，他会遇到他真正喜欢的人，出去约会，然后他们就再也不想见到他了。

And he had no idea what he did.

他不知道自己做了什么。

Well, that's the hard thing about dating.

嗯，这就是约会的难点。

It's hard to learn when you're dating because people don't tell you what you did wrong.

当你约会的时候很难学习，因为人们不会告诉你你做错了什么。

You don't know why you were rejected.

你不知道自己为什么被拒绝。

You have to figure it out yourself.

你必须自己弄清楚。

And that's why a lot of dating is a very hard thing to improve.

这就是为什么很多约会是一件很难改进的事情。

It's really hard to improve your dating because-- like, this is the thing that's famous.

改善你的约会确实很难，因为——就像，这就是众所周知的事情。

If you're a bad kisser, does anyone say, by the way, you're a bad kisser.

顺便说一下，如果你接吻技术很差，有人会说你接吻技术很差吗？

Here's how to kiss better?

下面就来教大家如何接吻效果更好？

It's not their responsibility.

这不是他们的责任。

They never kiss you again.

他们再也不会亲吻你了。

Right.

正确的。

Michael Leviton And you don't know why you were rejected.

迈克尔·莱维顿（Michael Leviton）而且你不知道为什么被拒绝。

It could've been anything.

它可能是任何东西。

You just have to have your paranoid fantasy of all the millions of things that you think you did wrong.

你只需要对数以百万计的你认为自己做错的事情抱有偏执的幻想。

But it could've been anything.

但它可能是任何东西。

Dating's chaos in that way.

约会就是这样混乱的。

Even when he had dates that for a while seemed to be going OK, he would blurt out something honest, out of habit, and ruin them.

即使他的约会在一段时间内似乎进展顺利，他也会出于习惯脱口而出一些诚实的话，毁掉他们。

If anything beautiful or cool happens, I would stop everything and go, wasn't that an amazing moment?

如果发生任何美丽或酷的事情，我会停止一切并离开，这不是一个美妙的时刻吗？

Let's just stop and, like, talk about how amazing that was.

让我们停下来，谈谈那是多么令人惊奇。

That barely ever happens.

这种情况几乎从未发生过。

And a lot of the time, the moment would be ruined by my commenting on it.

很多时候，这一刻会因为我的评论而毁掉。

Like what kind of moment are you talking about?

就像你在谈论什么样的时刻？

Well, OK.

好吧，好吧。

For instance, one time I was walking with this woman.

例如，有一次我和一位女士一起散步。

And I was having this date that was going well.

我的这次约会进展顺利。

And she put a cigarette in her mouth to smoke it.

然后她把香烟放进嘴里抽起来。

And I grabbed the cigarette out of her mouth and kissed her.

我从她嘴里夺走香烟并吻了她。

And it was great.

这太棒了。

And then she stepped away.

然后她走开了。

And we finished this kiss.

我们就完成了这个吻。

And I said, wow.

我说，哇。

That's not something I usually do.

这不是我通常做的事。

That was really amazing.

那真是太神奇了。

I was actually very inspired there.

事实上，我在那里受到了很大的启发。

Usually, I'm just so awkward.

通常，我就是这么尴尬。

And actually, that was much-- and I just ruined the whole thing.

事实上，这已经太多了——我只是毁了整件事。

There was no reason for me to comment on how cool I had just been.

我没有理由评论我刚才有多酷。

Well, I think the key word there was "usually." I think "usually" kind of kills that moment.

嗯，我认为关键词是“通常”。我认为“通常”会扼杀那一刻。

Oh, yeah.

哦，是的。

Well, that's actually another thing here.

嗯，这实际上是另一回事。

It was my tendency to talk about my general dating experience and to talk about those things just because they were on my mind.

我倾向于谈论我的一般约会经历，并谈论这些事情只是因为它们在我的脑海里。

When I was on a date, I was naturally thinking about other dates and other things that had happened.

当我约会时，我自然会想到其他约会和发生的其他事情。

So I would say, oh yeah.

所以我会说，哦，是的。

I've done a couple other amazing things on dates like that.

在这样的约会中我还做了一些其他令人惊奇的事情。

I would just start saying these things, and it would ruin everything.

我一开始说这些话，就会毁了一切。

I feel like when you tell some of these stories, you're like somebody from another planet or something who got dropped into our world.

我觉得当你讲述其中一些故事时，你就像来自另一个星球的人或掉落到我们世界的东西。

That's what it felt like.

就是这样的感觉。

I was in the wrong world.

我在错误的世界里。

And I didn't understand the concept of politeness.

而且我不明白礼貌的概念。

When I read-- I actually, at one point around the same time, read a politeness book.

当我阅读时——实际上，大约在同一时间，我读了一本礼貌书。

I actually read an etiquette book trying to figure it out.

我实际上读了一本礼仪书试图弄清楚。

And it was just one advice-- every time, it was just lie, lie, lie.

这只是一个建议——每次都是谎言，谎言，谎言。

It was just, oh, here's a situation-- you don't know someone's name?

只是，哦，有一种情况——你不知道某人的名字？

Lie.

说谎。

Here's a situation-- someone's gone through something horrible?

这是一种情况——有人经历过可怕的事情？

Just lie.

只是撒谎。

Here's another situation.

这是另一种情况。

It was just--

这只是——

No, it didn't say to lie.

不，它没有说谎。

But every piece of advice looked like--

但每一条建议看起来都像——

That's what it came down to.

这就是最终的结果。

Michael Leviton And it was all about other people's feelings.

Michael Leviton：这完全取决于其他人的感受。

And at some point it occurred to Michael that honesty was coming in the way of noticing other people's feelings.

在某些时候，迈克尔突然意识到诚实会妨碍注意到别人的感受。

And maybe he needed to change that.

也许他需要改变这一点。

And so finally, at 29-- that's five years ago-- he decided he'd had enough, and he started experimenting on his dates with how he acted.

最终，在 29 岁时——也就是五年前——他决定自己已经受够了，并开始在约会中尝试自己的行为方式。

Now, these were not complicated experiments by any means.

无论如何，这些都不是复杂的实验。

He'd simply have something honest that would occur to him that he wanted to say, and he would not say it.

他只是想到一些诚实的话，他想说，但他不会说出来。

I saw in a very visceral way how I could change my behavior and it would go over better.

我以一种非常发自内心的方式看到了如何改变自己的行为，这样事情就会变得更好。

And I could actually have a great time if I just shut up about certain things.

如果我对某些事情闭嘴的话，我实际上可以度过一段美好的时光。

I actually made a list of things not to talk about.

我实际上列出了一些不该谈论的事情。

You made a list of things not to talk about?

你列了一张不该谈论的事情清单吗？

An actual written list of things not to talk about.

一份真实的书面清单，列出了不该谈论的事情。

Do you still have that list?

你还留着那个名单吗？

Michael Leviton I actually do.

迈克尔·莱维顿 我确实这么做了。

Yeah.

是的。

I add to it sometimes still because it's hard for me to remember.

有时我还会添加它，因为我很难记住。

I have to concentrate very hard to not follow my gut instinct to tell the whole truth about things.

我必须非常集中注意力，才能不跟随自己的直觉说出事情的全部真相。

On that list-- you don't have to give an opinion.

在那份清单上——你不必发表意见。

You don't have to say things out loud.

你不必大声说出来。

Just because they're true is not helpful.

仅仅因为它们是真实的并没有什么帮助。

You can choose not to answer a question.

您可以选择不回答问题。

Don't fully explain.

不完全解释。

Make it quick.

快点吧。

Say you'll tell them later.

说你稍后会告诉他们。

End the conversation first.

先结束对话。

Don't try to impress.

不要试图给人留下深刻印象。

One actually really good one was to stop explicitly describing myself in any way, positive or negative.

一个实际上非常好的方法是停止以任何方式明确地描述自己，无论是积极的还是消极的。

That I didn't have to say, oh, I'm this kind of person.

我不必说，哦，我就是这样的人。

I do this.

我做这个。

Why would that come up at all in a conversation?

为什么会在谈话中出现这个问题？

It would be like, I'm the sort of person who-- why would you be saying that?

就像，我是那种——你为什么要这么说的人？

Because I believed that's what conversation was.

因为我相信这就是对话。

And they couldn't see those things.

他们看不到那些东西。

I didn't understand that they could see those things in your behavior, that they would read behind what you said and learn things.

我不明白他们可以从你的行为中看到这些东西，他们会读懂你所说的话并学到东西。

You had to say it explicitly.

你必须明确地说出来。

Otherwise, you were misleading them.

否则，你就误导了他们。

OK.

好的。

Next one?

下一个？

Michael Leviton At one point, I resolved that if I didn't recognize someone or I didn't remember their name to just pretend I did, which is something-- I used to always go, oh, I don't recognize you.

迈克尔·莱维顿（Michael Leviton） 有一次，我决定，如果我不认识某人或我不记得他们的名字，就假装我认识，这是我过去总是会说的，哦，我不认识你。

Or, oh, we've met before?

或者，哦，我们以前见过？

I don't remember.

我不记得了。

Or, I don't remember your name.

或者，我不记得你的名字了。

I realized that I could pretend to know someone's name while I figured out what their name was.

我意识到我可以假装知道某人的名字，同时弄清楚他们的名字是什么。

And that changed so much.

这改变了很多。

One year his New Year's resolutions, typed out, were, quote, "tell no one about my problems.

有一年，他打印出来的新年决心是：“不要告诉任何人我的问题。

Listen to how others feel instead of telling them how I feel.

倾听别人的感受，而不是告诉他们我的感受。

Pretend more and people please.

假装更多，人们也请。

Remember to make others feel like I find them smart and cool.

记住要让别人觉得我觉得他们聪明又酷。

Act like I agree."

表现得像我同意一样。”

On the same page-- quote, "my list of things that I am not allowed to talk about-- ideological commentary, unnecessary brutal truths, triggering questions and unwanted inquiries.

在同一页上——引用，“我列出了一些我不被允许谈论的事情——意识形态评论、不必要的残酷事实、引发问题和不必要的询问。

Avoid asking people what they mean when they use certain words." Or there's this one--

当人们使用某些词语时，避免询问他们的意思。”或者有这样一个——

OK.

好的。

So I wrote here, "Take nothing at face value.

所以我在这里写道：“不要只看表面价值。

Don't investigate things people say.

不要调查人们所说的话。

Remember their minds are chaos."

请记住，他们的思想是混乱的。”

I know.

我知道。

It's a strange, strange thing to say.

说起来很奇怪、很奇怪。

What I meant was that people-- I was of the mindset that other people were saying what they meant.

我的意思是人们——我的心态是其他人都在说他们的意思。

And I would sometimes get into ideological battles with people who hadn't even really been thinking very hard about what they'd said.

有时我会与那些甚至没有认真思考过自己所说的话的人进行意识形态斗争。

Because I would say, well, do you really mean that?

因为我会说，好吧，你真的是这个意思吗？

I mean, what do you mean when you say that?

我的意思是，你这么说是什么意思？

And I would investigate it further.

我会进一步调查它。

And it would become this attack, when really they didn't mean--

这会变成这次攻击，而他们实际上并不是故意的——

They didn't mean anything.

他们没有任何意义。

Michael Leviton They didn't mean anything by it.

迈克尔·莱维顿：他们没有任何意思。

They were just saying things they thought were socially acceptable kind of conversations that I would agree with.

他们只是说一些他们认为是社会可以接受的对话，我也同意。

But then it would devolve into this horrible discussion.

但随后它就会演变成这场可怕的讨论。

And a lot of time, I would get kind of angry.

很多时候，我会有点生气。

And sometimes, they would say, you know, it's like I don't really mean anything by it.

有时，他们会说，你知道，好像我并没有真正的意思。

Like they would start to backtrack because they hadn't ever meant it in the first place.

就像他们会开始后退一样，因为他们一开始就不是这个意思。

Yeah, meaning that there's lots of stuff going on that leads to why people say what they say and that I can't know what those things are.

是的，这意味着有很多事情正在发生，导致人们说出他们所说的话，而我不知道这些事情是什么。

That their minds are chaos of feelings, that they're human beings.

他们的思想是感情的混乱，他们是人类。

What was kind of inspiring talking to Michael is that although he seemed like somebody who'd dropped into our world without a clue about how the rest of us behave, he then made a study of why he was failing.

与迈克尔交谈时令人鼓舞的是，尽管他看起来像是一个闯入我们世界的人，对我们其他人的行为一无所知，但他随后研究了自己失败的原因。

And he came to conclusions on his own.

他自己得出了结论。

And he made up this to-do list.

他列出了这份待办事项清单。

And then, like a scientist in a science fiction film who brews up a miracle elixir in the lab and then decides that he should be one to try it first, Michael has put his theories into action.

然后，就像科幻电影中的一位科学家在实验室中酿造出一种神奇的灵丹妙药，然后决定他应该成为第一个尝试的人一样，迈克尔将他的理论付诸实践。

And it's working.

它正在发挥作用。

He's had girlfriends.

他有过女朋友。

Last November, he married one of those girlfriends.

去年十一月，他与其中一位女友结婚。

And so these days, when he's being, like, super-honest in some inappropriate situation, his wife will say to him, wow.

所以这些天，当他在一些不适当的情况下表现得超级诚实时，他的妻子会对他说，哇。

That was an interesting way to handle that.

这是一个有趣的处理方式。

Or wow, we're doing that now?

或者哇，我们现在正在这样做？

He says he still has a way to go with all this stuff.

他说他还有很长的路要走。

But what he's concluded after this lifelong experiment in honesty is that honesty is not enough.

但他在一生的诚实实验之后得出的结论是，诚实是不够的。

You have to read people for signs that they do not need or do not want to hear the entire truth.

你必须了解人们是否有迹象表明他们不需要或不想听到全部真相。

And in fact, the whole idea of a world where everybody is honest all the time?

事实上，一个人人始终诚实的世界的整个想法是什么？

It was almost a world where people didn't have feelings.

那几乎是一个人没有感情的世界。

The idea that someone would be upset-- that they weren't supposed to get upset.

有人会感到不安的想法——他们不应该感到不安。

They were supposed to just hear what I said and go, oh, wow.

他们应该只是听到我说的话然后走，哦，哇。

OK.

好的。

That's cool.

这很酷。

You were honest.

你很诚实。

I value that.

我很看重这一点。

In the real world, Michael says, people have all kinds of feelings swirling around in their heads and insecurities and struggles.

迈克尔说，在现实世界中，人们的脑海中盘旋着各种各样的感觉、不安全感和挣扎。

What they say may or may not be what they believe.

他们所说的可能是也可能不是他们所相信的。

And he says, that's great.

他说，那太好了。

That's normal.

这很正常。

It's chaos.

很混乱。

Coming up-- lying your way through college.

即将到来——用谎言读完大学。

That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.

稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。

It's This American Life.

这就是美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different stories on that theme.

当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同故事。

Today's program-- "Need to Know Basis," stories of people withholding information in a way that has life-changing consequences.

今天的节目——“需要了解基础”，讲述了人们以一种改变生活的方式隐瞒信息的故事。

We have arrived at act two of our program.

我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。

Act Two, Total Eclipse of the Son.

第二幕，儿子的全食。

That's son, S-O-N.

那是儿子，S-O-N。

Stay with me.

留在我身边。

That's going to make sense later.

稍后就会明白这一点。

So the United States has a surprisingly high college dropout rate, particularly at community colleges, where only a third of all first-time students have their two-year degree by the end of three years.

因此，美国的大学辍学率高得惊人，尤其是在社区大学，只有三分之一的新生在三年后获得两年制学位。

Community colleges, by the way, are a huge number of students.

顺便说一句，社区大学的学生数量巨大。

Almost half of all American college students are in community college.

几乎一半的美国大学生就读于社区大学。

We've done a bunch of stories about college dropouts on our show, most recently a couple weeks ago.

我们在节目中做了很多关于大学辍学者的故事，最近的一次是几周前。

Apparently, the first year is the key make-or-break time for whether or not somebody's going to drop out.

显然，第一年是决定一个人是否会退学的关键时期。

Zoe Chace spent last fall on the campus of a community college in the South Bronx, Hostos Community College, reporting on what kids need to not drop out.

去年秋天，佐伊·查斯 (Zoe Chace) 在南布朗克斯的一所社区学院——霍斯托斯社区学院 (Hostos Community College) 的校园里，报道了孩子们需要做什么才能不辍学。

I was looking for that one student in the one and three, the kid who succeeds.

我一直在寻找第一和第三中的那个学生，那个成功的孩子。

As soon as I saw Demetrius at the freshman orientation, I thought, oh, there he is-- the success.

当我在新生入学典礼上看到德米特里厄斯时，我就想，哦，他就在那里——成功了。

Front row, always raising his hand, volunteering for the skits.

前排总是举手，自愿表演小品。

And when I talked to him, he assured me.

当我和他交谈时，他向我保证。

I had found the right person.

我找到了合适的人。

If there is it valedictorian spot available, that is what I am trying to get.

如果有可用的告别演说位置，这就是我想要得到的。

That's your spot.

那是你的位置。

Demetrius Wilson Yeah.

德米特里厄斯·威尔逊 是的。

And if someone somehow beats me out and becomes valedictorian, then I should at least be salutatorian.

如果有人以某种方式击败了我并成为告别演说者，那么我至少应该向我致意。

If someone somehow pulls that off, hats off to them.

如果有人成功地做到了这一点，我们向他们致敬。

Truly, they're moving on to do great things.

确实，他们正在继续做伟大的事情。

I thought if I spent time with him, I could see what he's doing right.

我想如果我花时间和他在一起，我就能看到他在做什么。

He looks like the one in three.

他看上去就像是三分之一的人。

Because Demetrius has two things that are really hard to come by-- extremely high expectations for himself and complete confidence that he will meet or surpass those expectations.

因为德米特里有两件事确实很难实现——对自己极高的期望，以及对自己能够达到或超越这些期望的完全信心。

Throughout my whole life, I try at something, not only do I get it, I usually, like, sweep it.

在我的一生中，我尝试做一些事情，我不仅得到它，而且通常喜欢扫除它。

Like I'm vastly superior to most if I try at something.

就像如果我尝试某件事，我就会比大多数人优越得多。

I feel like I could have been a great wrestler.

我觉得我本来可以成为一名伟大的摔跤手。

I'm-- damn, I could have been one of the best wrestlers anybody's ever seen.

我——该死，我本来可以成为任何人见过的最好的摔跤手之一。

Doesn't matter what it is.

它是什么并不重要。

Demetrius is always about to be a star.

德米特里厄斯总是要成为明星。

From the back, Demetrius is a grown man-- tall and broad-shouldered in a leather coat.

从后面看，德米特里是一个成年男子——身材高大，肩膀宽阔，穿着一件皮大衣。

From the front, he's still a teenager-- round, freckly baby face, 18 years old.

从正面看，他还是个少年——圆圆的、长满雀斑的娃娃脸，十八岁。

His plan is to get his associates, transfer to a four-year school, major in video game design, and then become one of the best video game designers the world has ever seen.

他的计划是让他的同事转学到四年制学校，主修视频游戏设计，然后成为世界上最好的视频游戏设计师之一。

Demetrius tells me he has not always done the work to match his high expectations.

德米特里厄斯告诉我，他所做的工作并不总是符合他的高期望。

In high school, he says he did not always do his work.

他说，在高中时，他并不总是做作业。

But this year, he's serious.

但今年，他是认真的。

I haven't let, like, more than three hours pass yet of me getting an assignment and finishing it.

我还没等三个多小时就收到作业并完成它。

If it's possible for me to finish the assignment within the three hours of me receiving that assignment, then I'm going to finish it.

如果我能在收到作业后的三个小时内完成作业，那么我就会完成它。

I simply can't allow myself to get behind.

我就是不能让自己落后。

I got to be active.

我必须活跃起来。

I got to make sure I get this done.

我必须确保我能完成这件事。

And truth be told, I fully expect that I'm going to have one of the highest GPAs in this school.

说实话，我完全希望自己能成为这所学校中 GPA 最高的学校之一。

So I started following Demetrius around, talking with him.

于是我开始跟踪德米特里并与他交谈。

I went to his classes, the computer lab, met his girlfriend.

我去了他的课、计算机实验室，认识了他的女朋友。

He's in love.

他恋爱了。

One day, after months of this, at the end of the semester, we went to a meeting at the school with someone called a success coach.

几个月后的一天，学期结束时，我们去学校参加了一次会议，会见的是一位被称为成功教练的人。

All right.

好的。

So let's just go over each class and just--

让我们回顾一下每一堂课，然后——

Regardless of your GPA, every incoming freshman at Hostos is assigned a success coach, someone to keep them on target.

无论您的 GPA 是多少，Hostos 的每位新生都会被指派一位成功教练，帮助他们保持目标。

It's different from an adviser in that the success coach is more of a full-time catcher in the rye, someone who tracks their progress through the school year and, if they're falling behind to figure out why and try to fix it; someone to help them pick their classes each semester so they graduate on time, which is why we are here right now.

它与顾问的不同之处在于，成功教练更像是麦田里的全职捕手，他在整个学年中跟踪他们的进步，如果他们落后了，就找出原因并尝试解决它；每个学期都有人帮助他们选课，以便他们按时毕业，这就是我们现在在这里的原因。

I'm here to see if my advisor can help me get into an honors English class because I've gotten all A's all semester.

我来这里是为了看看我的导师是否可以帮助我进入荣誉英语课程，因为我整个学期都取得了 A 的成绩。

So--

所以——

Straight A's all semester, as promised.

正如承诺的那样，整个学期都是全优。

So we sit down with Ray Cartagena, Demetrius's coach.

所以我们和德米特里厄斯的教练雷·卡塔赫纳坐下来。

He's in Navy Reserves, huge arms, tattoos.

他是海军预备役军人，有着巨大的手臂和纹身。

He makes Demetrius look little.

他让德米特里看起来很渺小。

How you doing?

你好吗？

Straight A's.

直A。

What do I need to fulfill my requirements?

我需要什么来满足我的要求？

They lean over the computer together and look at his schedule.

他们一起靠在电脑前查看他的日程安排。

Oh, no. That doesn't work.

哦，不。那是行不通的。

Ray Cartagena That doesn't work?

雷·卡塔赫纳 这行不通？

12:30?

12:30？

Then something happens I totally didn't expect.

然后发生了我完全没想到的事情。

In the middle of registering Demetrius for his college courses, we call his dad.

在为德米特里厄斯注册大学课程的过程中，我们给他的父亲打电话。

How are you?

你好吗？

My name is Ray Cartagena.

我叫雷·卡塔赫纳。

I'm Demetrius's success coach here.

我是德米特里厄斯的成功教练。

And we're trying to build his schedule for him now.

我们现在正在努力为他制定时间表。

We wanted to reach out to you and get your approval on it.

我们希望与您联系并获得您的批准。

So--

所以——

Some of the classes-- Zoe Chace Demetrius's dad seems to take an usual amount of interest in the minutiae of his son's schedule.

有些课程——佐伊·查斯·德米特里厄斯 (Zoe Chace Demetrius) 的父亲似乎一如既往地对儿子日程安排的细节很感兴趣。

No three classes on one day, one class on another day because then you have too much time on your hands.

不能一天三节课，另一天一节课，因为那样你的时间就太多了。

I mean, I have a history with him.

我的意思是，我和他有一段历史。

And too much time--

还有太多的时间——

I have a history with him.

我和他有一段历史。

And too much time on your hands, he says, can lead to issues.

他说，过多的时间可能会导致问题。

--on your hands could lead to issues.

——在你手上可能会导致问题。

So I'm like--

所以我就像——

This is weird.

这很奇怪。

Demetrius is acing his classes.

德米特里厄斯的课程成绩优异。

His professors really like him.

他的教授们真的很喜欢他。

He spends a lot of time in the computer lab.

他在计算机实验室度过了很多时间。

And he wants to join student government.

他想加入学生会。

Why is his dad all over him?

为什么他的爸爸全在他身上？

He's in college.

他在上大学。

If they can't find a better schedule for him, his dad promises, this semester around, I will find a way to occupy his time.

如果他们找不到更好的日程安排给他，他爸爸承诺，这学期左右，我会想办法打发他的时间。

This semester around, I will figure out a way to occupy his time.

这学期左右，我会想办法打发他的时间。

Demetrius seems a little embarrassed when we walk out.

当我们走出去时，德米特里似乎有点尴尬。

His bravado has kind of drained away.

他的虚张声势已经消失了。

So I ask about his dad.

所以我问起他的父亲。

What's the deal?

这是怎么回事？

We sit on a park bench.

我们坐在公园的长椅上。

Demetrius stares straight ahead.

德米特里厄斯直视前方。

He doesn't trust me.

他不信任我。

So my dad is just stuck in oh, but he messed up once.

所以我爸爸只是陷入了困境，但他曾经搞砸过一次。

He messed up once.

他曾经搞砸过一次。

It was one time in the history, once that he messed up.

历史上只有一次，他搞砸了一次。

Therefore, he will mess up every other time he attempts something for the rest of his life because once he messed up.

因此，在他的余生中，每当他尝试某件事时，他都会搞砸，因为一旦他搞砸了。

Once.

一次。

Once.

一次。

And it was big.

而且它很大。

It was very big.

它很大。

It was very bad, spectacularly messed up.

情况非常糟糕，一团糟。

It was just really bad, what I did.

我所做的事情真的很糟糕。

And then it's good.

然后就很好了。

It's spectacularly good what I'm doing now.

我现在所做的事情非常好。

It's really good, what I'm doing.

我正在做的事情真的很好。

The story about the once is about to spill out.

曾经的故事即将水落石出。

And this story, it tells you a lot about why the graduation rate at community colleges is one in three, how even someone as confident as Demetrius could become a dropout instead of the one who makes it.

这个故事告诉你很多关于为什么社区大学的毕业率是三分之一，即使是像德米特里厄斯这样自信的人也可能会辍学而不是成功的人。

The once is theatrical.

一次是戏剧性的。

It's an elaborate mistake.

这是一个精心设计的错误。

And it's not a story about this year.

这不是今年的故事。

It's a story about last year.

这是去年的故事。

Because when I met Demetrius, I did not know this is actually his second freshman year, his second time around as a freshman in college.

因为当我见到德米特里厄斯时，我不知道这实际上是他的第二个一年级，他第二次作为大学一年级新生。

The first time he went to college, it wasn't the South Bronx.

他第一次上大学时，并不是在南布朗克斯。

In fact, it couldn't feel more different at Finger Lakes Community College.

事实上，在手指湖社区学院，感觉再不同不过了。

Woods, wineries, lakes, five hours north of New York City.

树林、酒庄、湖泊，距纽约市以北 5 小时车程。

His mom dropped him off.

他妈妈把他送走了。

And when she dropped me off and went back to New York, I was sitting in my room.

当她送我回纽约时，我正坐在自己的房间里。

I was like, I'm alone.

我当时想，我独自一人。

This is it.

就是这样。

I'm here on my own now.

我现在一个人在这里。

It was somber, but at the same time it was exciting.

这是阴沉的，但同时又令人兴奋。

Like, I'm alone.

就像，我一个人。

And then it was like, I'm alone!

然后我就觉得，我孤身一人！

My roommate hadn't gotten there yet.

我的室友还没有到那里。

I was like, this is pretty awesome.

我当时想，这太棒了。

I stepped outside as if to test it.

我走出去，好像要测试一下。

Like, open the door, looked around.

就像，打开门，环顾四周。

And I was like, I can just go, just go anywhere.

我当时想，我可以去任何地方。

Like, this is good.

就像，这很好。

Then school started.

然后学校开始了。

And I was like, OK.

我当时想，好吧。

School's the main focus.

学校是主要焦点。

I'm going to make sure I do it.

我会确保我做到了。

And at first, I was.

起初，我是。

But then, I started going to parties when I should be studying or doing homework, started hanging out late.

但后来，我开始在应该学习或做作业的时候去参加聚会，开始闲逛到很晚。

Xbox One and PS4 came out during that stretch.

Xbox One 和 PS4 正是在这一时期问世的。

Demetrius also noticed it's way easier to get girlfriends in college than in high school.

德米特里厄斯还注意到，在大学里比在高中更容易交到女朋友。

But the big difference between college and high school-- nobody is there to make you go to class.

但大学和高中之间最大的区别是——没有人强迫你去上课。

Nobody is collecting your homework.

没有人收集你的作业。

Nobody's making sure you're keeping up with the reading.

没有人能确保你跟上阅读进度。

On occasion, I would just cut class and not go.

有时，我会逃课而不去。

He says nobody seemed to notice.

他说似乎没有人注意到。

He got letters from the school.

他收到了学校的来信。

He ignored them.

他无视他们。

His grades were dropping.

他的成绩正在下降。

And then late into the semester, a relative died that he was close to, and he had to go back to the city for the funeral.

后来到了学期末，他身边的一个亲戚去世了，他不得不回城里办丧事。

He came back to campus but never went back to class.

他回到了校园，但再也没有回到课堂。

He felt terrible, totally depressed.

他感觉很糟糕，完全沮丧。

There would be times where I would just be in my room.

有时我会呆在自己的房间里。

I would just sit in there and cry.

我只会坐在那儿哭泣。

And at the same time, it made me feel worse because I knew I was failing.

与此同时，这让我感觉更糟，因为我知道自己失败了。

I knew I screwed up in my first semester.

我知道我第一学期搞砸了。

Demetrius let everything slide.

德米特里厄斯让一切顺其自然。

The checks he was getting from the government to cover his housing, he spent those.

他从政府得到的用于支付住房费用的支票，他都花掉了。

He only paid the rent once.

他只付过一次房租。

He says he was confused about when he was supposed to pay what.

他说他对于什么时候应该支付什么费用感到困惑。

By the end of the semester, there was nothing left.

到了学期末，已经一无所有了。

He owed a couple thousand dollars.

他欠了几千美元。

He saw his family for Christmas break.

他在圣诞假期见到了家人。

He could've confessed everything.

他本可以坦白一切。

He could have gotten help.

他本来可以得到帮助的。

But he didn't do any of that.

但他什么也没做。

Obviously, I lied and said I did well in school and never brought up the debt.

显然，我撒了谎，说我在学校表现很好，并且从未提起过债务。

And after Christmas vacation, that's when he got into some real magical thinking.

圣诞节假期结束后，他开始进行一些真正神奇的思考。

He kicked up his deception to a whole new level.

他将他的欺骗提升到了一个全新的水平。

He was like, the circumstances of my life are on a need to know basis, and nobody needs to know.

他说，我的生活情况是有必要知道的，没有人需要知道。

He thought he could turn things around all by himself and secretly handled this entire episode.

他以为自己能扭转局面，便秘密处理了这整件事。

Here was his plan-- get a full-time job at the Taco Bell, earn enough money to pay back the money he owed for his housing, never tell anyone what happened, and quietly re-enroll next semester.

他的计划是这样的——在塔可钟找到一份全职工作，赚到足够的钱来偿还他欠下的住房钱，永远不要告诉任何人发生了什么事，然后悄悄地在下学期重新入学。

Honestly, I never even registered for classes.

老实说，我什至从未注册过课程。

I basically started living on the run.

我基本上开始过着逃亡的生活。

I was hiding out in my best friend's room immediately next door.

我躲在隔壁我最好朋友的房间里。

I felt like this is my mistake.

我觉得这是我的错误。

It was my problem.

这是我的问题。

I messed up, so I need to handle it on my own.

我搞砸了，所以我需要自己处理。

So thousands of dollars in debt, college dropout, 300 miles away from his family-- this was Demetrius's life.

数千美元的债务、大学辍学、远离家人 300 英里——这就是德米特里厄斯的生活。

He copied a friend's transcript into Microsoft Word, changed the name to his, and texted it to his dad like, see how great I'm doing in school?

他将朋友的成绩单复制到 Microsoft Word 中，改名为他的名字，然后发短信给他的父亲，就像是“看看我在学校表现得怎么样？”

Three months passed like this.

三个月就这样过去了。

And it might have continued for longer.

而且这种情况可能会持续更长时间。

Except then, that April, deep into Demetrius's would-be second semester, his dad decided to surprise him at school.

但那年四月，德米特里即将进入第二学期时，他的父亲决定在学校给他一个惊喜。

So I'm talking to him.

所以我正在和他说话。

And he's saying to me, well, Dad, the weekend would be better because I'm not as busy with school work and work.

他对我说，好吧，爸爸，周末会更好，因为我没有那么忙于学业和工作。

So the weekend would be great.

所以周末会很棒。

We could do anything.

我们可以做任何事情。

I said, sure.

我说，当然。

No problem.

没问题。

I'm on my way.

我正在路上。

He has no idea I'm on my way.

他不知道我正在路上。

Please meet the man from the speakerphone, the father of Demetrius Wilson, Demetrius Wilson, Sr. He is a big guy, a sanitation worker for New York City.

请认识一下扩音器里的那个人，他是德米特里厄斯·威尔逊的父亲，老德米特里厄斯·威尔逊。他是个大块头，是纽约市的一名环卫工人。

He is incredibly friendly, loves to talk.

他非常友好，喜欢说话。

So back in April, Demetrius the dad shows up at the school with his younger son, Elijah.

早在四月，父亲德米特里带着他的小儿子伊利亚出现在学校。

It was Elijah's spring break.

那是以利亚的春假。

Their plan was to have a little vacation, drive around the wineries after saying hi to Demetrius, Jr.

他们的计划是去度个小假，在跟小德米特里打完招呼后开车去酒庄转转。

He said, I'm in room 220 or 222 or something.

他说，我在 220 或 222 房间什么的。

So I see these two girls in front of his door that he said he was in.

所以我看到这两个女孩在他说他在的门前。

Oh, he's living the life.

哦，他过着这样的生活。

This is a good dude.

这是一个好伙计。

I'm so proud of him.

我为他感到骄傲。

These two pretty girls are standing there.

这两个漂亮的女孩站在那里。

And I was like, are they gonna-- you're looking for Demetrius?

我当时想，他们会——你在寻找德米特里厄斯吗？

I thought they were going to say that.

我以为他们会这么说。

They didn't say that.

他们没有这么说。

I go up to the room.

我上楼去房间。

The girls take off.

女孩们出发了。

They had nothing to do with him.

他们与他没有任何关系。

I go to the room, open the door.

我走进房间，打开门。

So they're just sitting there.

所以他们只是坐在那里。

Hi, hi.

嗨，嗨。

I see the video game on the big screen.

我在大屏幕上看到视频游戏。

Demetrius stuck to the policy-- admit nothing.

德米特里坚持自己的政策——不承认任何事情。

I mean, I was still acting like everything's great.

我的意思是，我仍然表现得一切都很好。

Like, oh, hey, Dad.

就像，哦，嘿，爸爸。

Hey, great to see you.

嘿，很高兴见到你。

And he says, oh, I would be in class except it was canceled.

他说，哦，除非课程取消，否则我会去上课。

His dad looks at him.

他的父亲看着他。

So no class today?

那么今天没课吗？

Teacher wasn't sick yesterday?

老师昨天没生病吧？

You just found out on short notice?

你是在短时间内才发现的吗？

All right.

好的。

I'm gonna let that ride.

我会让那件事过去。

What are you thinking, though?

不过你在想什么呢？

Are you thinking anything?

你在想什么吗？

Oh, yeah.

哦，是的。

Right then, we got a thing called jokes.

就在那时，我们有一种叫做笑话的东西。

When someone's running jokes, you can see it.

当有人开玩笑时，你可以看到。

Running jokes, it's slang-- like running a con game.

讲笑话，这是俚语——就像玩骗局游戏一样。

Hey, people do it all the time.

嘿，人们总是这样做。

Like, they say something to you, and you're like, that don't match up with what they just said.

就像，他们对你说了一些话，而你却觉得，这与他们刚才所说的不符。

So you just keep it in your pocket until another thing come up.

所以你只需把它放在口袋里，直到出现另一件事。

So now, they're watching each other, saying nothing, waiting it out.

所以现在，他们互相看着对方，什么也没说，等待着结果。

Next day, Demetrius's dad makes a move.

第二天，德米特里厄斯的父亲采取了行动。

Hey, I want to go to one of your classes.

嘿，我想去听你们的一堂课。

Let's go to one of your classes together.

我们一起去上你们的一堂课吧。

We walk around, all the way around.

我们走来走去，一路走来。

Finally, we get to another part of the campus.

终于，我们到达了校园的另一个地方。

He goes into an empty trailer.

他走进一辆空拖车。

I'm on it now.

我现在正在做。

Yeah.

是的。

Demetrius Wilson Now we're in an empty-- no one's in the class.

德米特里厄斯·威尔逊：现在我们教室里空无一人——班上没人。

Class is cut off, lights off.

上课停课，灯灭。

Now, I'm in there like this, sitting there.

现在，我就像这样，坐在那里。

Elijah still don't know, says, where's everybody?

以利亚还是不知道，说，大家都在哪儿？

So he says, just one minute, and walks out the door.

于是他说，等一下，然后走出门。

All right, homeboy, take me to the office.

好吧，宅男，带我去办公室吧。

Huh?

啊？

Huh?

啊？

Take me to the office.

带我去办公室。

Oh, it's closed.

哦，关门了。

Well, then it should be a short trip.

嗯，那么这应该是一次短途旅行。

Take me to the office.

带我去办公室。

If it's closed, it'll be a short trip.

如果关闭的话，这将是一个短途旅行。

Right?

正确的？

So now I'm like this.

所以我现在就这样了。

We get in there.

我们进去。

Hi, how you doing?

嗨，你好吗？

My name is Demetrius Wilson.

我叫德米特里厄斯·威尔逊。

Where is he supposed to be?

他应该在哪里？

His name is Demetrius Wilson.

他的名字叫德米特里厄斯·威尔逊。

The receptionist looks up Demetrius's name on the computer and goes quiet.

接待员在电脑上查找了德米特里厄斯的名字，然后沉默了。

She looks at me.

她看着我。

She looks at him.

她看着他。

Looks at me, looks at him, looks at the board.

看看我，看看他，看看黑板。

Don't know what to say.

不知道该说什么。

Sir, he's not registered this year.

先生，他今年没有注册。

Demetrius marches his son out to the car, shuts him inside, and takes a walk.

德米特里厄斯把他的儿子带到车前，把他关在车里，然后散步。

And his thoughts are going 100 miles an hour.

他的思绪正以每小时 100 英里的速度前进。

He kind of wants to knock his son out and drive away.

他有点想把他的儿子打晕然后开车走。

But of course, that's not what he's going to do.

但当然，这不是他要做的事。

I just walk.

我只是走路。

I walk, and I walk.

我走，我走。

And I'm like, oh, man.

我想，哦，伙计。

You failed him.

你让他失望了。

You should have been there, man.

你应该在场的，伙计。

No, you can't hurt him now.

不，你现在不能伤害他。

What do you do, man?

你做什么，伙计？

Do you hurt him?

你伤害他吗？

No, don't hurt him.

不，别伤害他。

If you hurt him, man, then what do you prove, man?

如果你伤害了他，伙计，那么你能证明什么，伙计？

He can't be up here.

他不能在这里。

Can he go back to school?

他能回学校吗？

This is me walking around the campus.

这是我在校园里散步。

This is what he was thinking about-- first of all, Demetrius's dad wasn't around for lots of little Demetrius's childhood.

这就是他所想的——首先，德米特里厄斯的童年大部分时间里，他的父亲都不在身边。

The parents broke up, and he'd see little Demetrius maybe every few weeks or so, sometimes less.

父母分手了，他可能每隔几周就会见到小德米特里，有时甚至更少。

So when his son slacked off in high school, he blamed himself partly for not being there.

因此，当他的儿子在高中偷懒时，他部分地责备自己没有做到这一点。

Now his son's slacking off in college.

现在他的儿子在大学里偷懒了。

What do you expect?

你期望什么？

Also, Demetrius's dad has a college degree.

此外，德米特里厄斯的父亲拥有大学学位。

But his first time around, he dropped out, when he tried state college in Norfolk, Virginia.

但他第一次在弗吉尼亚州诺福克尝试州立大学时就退学了。

He says he had this problem when he was young where he would come right up to the edge of being successful and then pull back.

他说他年轻时就遇到过这个问题，他会在接近成功的边缘然后退缩。

He knows how his kid must be feeling right now, how hard it can be to push yourself through your doubts.

他知道他的孩子现在的感受，也知道让自己克服疑虑是多么困难。

I mean, for me, it definitely was like I could have done a lot more if I was pushed.

我的意思是，对我来说，如果我被推动的话，我绝对可以做得更多。

I think what happens with a lot of people is that whatever makes them go over that edge, it's more than just a talent and intelligence.

我认为很多人的情况是，无论是什么让他们超越了极限，这不仅仅是天赋和智慧。

It's something else.

这是另一回事。

It could very well be to follow somebody, follow a family member.

很可能是跟随某人，跟随一个家庭成员。

They did it.

他们做到了。

I'm going to do it.

我会去做的。

The thing that's stopping them could be, there's no one else that's done this.

阻止他们的可能是，没有其他人做到了这一点。

Who am I to think that I could do it?

我是谁，竟然认为我能做到？

So Demetrius, Sr., comes up with a plan for his son Demetrius.

因此，老德米特里厄斯为他的儿子德米特里厄斯制定了一个计划。

Nothing's going to happen in his life that I don't know about.

他的生活中不会发生我不知道的事情。

I need to know everything.

我需要知道一切。

He decides to bring little Demetrius back to New York City, enroll him in college in the Bronx, 10 minutes away from his dad's apartment.

他决定将小德米特里厄斯带回纽约市，让他进入布朗克斯区的大学，距离他父亲的公寓 10 分钟路程。

Again, Demetrius's dad works for New York Sanitation.

同样，德米特里厄斯的父亲在纽约卫生局工作。

And his garage is directly across the street from where Demetrius goes to school.

他的车库就在德米特里厄斯上学的街对面。

I'm on it in his school.

我在他的学校做这件事。

I'm on it at his job.

我正在处理他的工作。

I'm on it at home.

我正在家里做呢

There's no you make the decision.

没有什么是你自己做决定的。

No. I make the decision, or we discuss it.

不，我做决定，或者我们讨论。

But you don't make the decision and come back to me because who are you to make the decision?

但你没有做出决定并回到我身边，因为你是谁来做出决定？

You haven't even had that much experience.

你甚至没有那么多经验。

Demetrius is on his dad's couch every night, at school across the street from him every day, on weekends at a job that his dad approves of-- working as a cashier at the FAO Schwarz in midtown.

德米特里厄斯每天晚上都在他父亲的沙发上，每天在他街对面的学校，周末从事他父亲认可的工作——在市中心的FAO Schwarz 担任收银员。

They check in every day, a few times a day.

他们每天都会签到，一天几次。

The difference between Demetrius and myself, quite honestly, is that I didn't have me.

老实说，德米特里厄斯和我自己的区别在于，我没有我自己。

The moment you say, you can't do it.

当你说出来的时候，你就做不到。

Oh, I don't have to do it.

哦，我不必这样做。

There should be something to push you.

应该有什么东西可以推动你。

And sometimes it has to be external.

有时它必须是外部的。

I don't think I had it externally.

我不认为我有外部的。

And I think internally, I knew I could.

我认为在内心深处，我知道我可以。

But if someone-- nah, don't turn this way.

但如果有人——不，不要转向这边。

There ain't no back.

没有回头路了

You got to go.

你得走了。

If he for some reason or another wants to stop, he's going to have to work really hard at it.

如果他出于某种原因想停下来，他就必须非常努力地工作。

And he can't do it in my house.

而且他在我家里做不到。

There's a popular idea right now among people studying why kids drop out of college.

现在，人们在研究孩子为什么从大学辍学时，有一个流行的想法。

There's this whole set of skills that students lack-- non-academic skills like organizing their time, knowing who to ask for what.

学生们缺乏一整套技能——非学术技能，比如安排时间、知道向谁询问什么。

And that lacking those skills is one of the biggest reasons kids fail.

缺乏这些技能是孩子们失败的最大原因之一。

And that's something schools are trying to address so they can keep their students.

这就是学校正在努力解决的问题，以便留住学生。

The way that lots of schools see it is that they have to develop their own Demetrius's dad.

许多学校认为他们必须培养自己的德米特里厄斯父亲。

They call it an intrusive adviser or an enhanced adviser.

他们称之为侵入式顾问或增强式顾问。

Demetrius's new school, Hostos, they're trying this thing.

德米特里厄斯的新学校，霍斯托斯，他们正在尝试这个事情。

That's what their success coach program is.

这就是他们的成功教练计划。

When Navy Reserve guy Ray calls Demetrius's dad on the phone to figure out his one class on one day issue, that's intrusive advising, which in this case doesn't look so different from parenting.

当海军预备役队员雷打电话给德米特里厄斯的父亲，解决他一日一课的问题时，这是侵入性的建议，在这种情况下，这看起来与养育孩子没有太大不同。

Of course, parenting can be a thankless job and seems to be when it comes to Demetrius.

当然，养育子女可能是一项吃力不讨好的工作，对于德米特里厄斯来说似乎就是这样。

He doesn't credit his turnaround from dropout to straight A student to his dad holding him accountable.

他并没有将自己从辍学者变成优等生的转变归功于他父亲对他的追责。

Demetrius mostly gives the credit to himself, to a change in his own frame of mind.

德米特里主要把功劳归功于他自己，归功于他自己心态的改变。

I learned from my mistakes.

我从错误中吸取了教训。

I got rid of my mental whatevers that caused me to make them in the first place.

我摆脱了最初导致我做出这些作品的心理因素。

His dad doesn't care that Demetrius thinks he did it on its own.

他的父亲并不关心德米特里厄斯认为他是自己做的。

In fact, he's happy about that.

事实上，他对此感到高兴。

He prefers that.

他更喜欢这样。

He wants him to feel empowered and not overthink it.

他希望他感到自己有力量，而不是想得太多。

He wants his son to move on and not spend time reflecting on why he got stuck a year ago.

他希望他的儿子继续前进，而不是花时间思考为什么他一年前陷入困境。

That could stagnate his son, whose only focus is supposed to be doing well in school.

这可能会让他的儿子停滞不前，他的唯一关注点应该是在学校取得好成绩。

I want him to just keep flying, he told me the other day, not so close to the sun that he melts his wings but just keep moving forward.

我希望他继续飞翔，前几天他告诉我，不要离太阳太近，以免融化他的翅膀，而是继续前进。

Don't pull back.

不要撤退。

Stay in motion.

保持运动。

Zoe Chace is one of the producers of our show.

佐伊·查斯是我们节目的制片人之一。

Act Three, The Favorite.

第三幕，最爱。

So we close our show today with this example of information provided on a need-to-know basis from one of our producers, Stephanie Foo.

因此，我们以我们的制作人之一 Stephanie Foo 在需要了解的基础上提供的信息示例来结束今天的节目。

When I was in the seventh grade, I got an assignment to write a one-page essay about my favorite place in the world.

当我七年级时，我接到一项作业，要写一篇关于世界上我最喜欢的地方的论文。

I wrote 10 pages, single spaced, about Malaysia.

我写了 10 页关于马来西亚的单倍行距文章。

I moved to America from Malaysia when I was three years old, but the rest of my family still lives there.

我三岁时从马来西亚搬到美国，但我的家人仍然住在那里。

We went back a lot when I was little.

我小时候我们经常回去。

And so I remember crawling under ferns and hibiscus in the yard, catching moths the size of my head, playing hide and seek during monsoon storms.

所以我记得我在院子里的蕨类植物和木槿花下爬行，捕捉我头大小的飞蛾，在季风风暴期间玩捉迷藏。

But in that essay, I didn't write about the main reason why I loved Malaysia.

但在那篇文章中，我并没有写出我喜欢马来西亚的主要原因。

I loved Malaysia most because Malaysia loved me.

我最喜欢马来西亚，因为马来西亚爱我。

I was the favorite child, and not even the extra serving of cake kind of favorite-- the kind of favorite where everyone would straight up say at family gatherings, oh, Stephanie's the best.

我是最喜欢的孩子，甚至连额外的蛋糕都不喜欢——那种在家庭聚会上每个人都会直接说，哦，斯蒂芬妮是最好的。

My aunts would tell their children, why can't you be more like her?

我的阿姨们会告诉她们的孩子，为什么你不能更像她呢？

Then they'd buy me all the toys I wanted.

然后他们会给我买我想要的所有玩具。

And the person leading this campaign was the matriarch of our family, my dad's aunt.

这场运动的领导者是我们家的女族长，我父亲的姨妈。

We all called her Auntie.

我们都叫她阿姨。

Every time I walked into a room, Auntie would reach for me and coo, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH].

每次我走进一个房间，阿姨都会伸手拉住我，咕咕叫，[非英语语音]。

She's so well behaved.

她的行为真好。

She's so nice.

她真好。

She saved me all the best pieces of the chicken, taught me mahjong, asked only me to sit on her lap on the big papasan as she taught me songs in Chinese.

她把最好的鸡肉都留给了我，教我打麻将，只让我坐在她腿上的大帕帕桑上，教我中文歌曲。

The other adults fell in line to say something nice about my eyes, my dimples.

其他大人排队称赞我的眼睛和酒窝。

I remember I had this cousin who wanted to be an artist when she grew up.

我记得我有一个表姐，她长大后想成为一名艺术家。

She filled up an entire bookshelf with her sketches.

她的草图填满了整个书架。

I showed up and started doodling, and everyone flocked around me, telling me I had natural talent.

我出现并开始涂鸦，每个人都聚集在我周围，告诉我我有天赋。

My cousin stormed off and didn't talk to me for days.

我表弟怒气冲冲地走了，好几天没有和我说话。

I was proud to be Auntie's favorite because even though she was under five feet tall with Coke-bottle glasses, she was also a total badass.

我很自豪能成为阿姨的最爱，因为尽管她身高不到五英尺，戴着可乐瓶眼镜，但她也是个十足的坏蛋。

Auntie grew up destitute with three sisters and a single mother in Japanese-occupied Malaysia.

阿姨在日本占领的马来西亚与三个姐妹和一位单亲母亲一起贫困长大。

The girls shaved their heads to avoid being harassed by the Japanese soldiers, and they opened a gambling den where they hustled patrons out of money and sold opium.

女孩们剃光头以避免受到日本士兵的骚扰，她们开设了一个赌场，骗取顾客的钱并出售鸦片。

She had an impassioned opinion about everything.

她对一切都抱有热情的看法。

When she hated something, she screwed up her face in disgust and would actually bang her fist on the table, declaring [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH].

当她讨厌某件事时，她会厌恶地皱起脸，甚至用拳头敲桌子，宣称[非英语演讲]。

Don't like Nicki Minaj.

不喜欢妮琪·米娜。

Why she got blonde, white people hair when she's a black woman?

为什么她是黑人女性，却拥有金色的白人头发？

Not that Auntie had ever met a black woman.

阿姨从来没有见过黑人妇女。

She didn't like traveling.

她不喜欢旅行。

She didn't like cheese.

她不喜欢奶酪。

Her decisiveness sometimes didn't quite make sense.

她的果断有时也不太合理。

Like one time when I offered her an apple, she shook her head and said, apple taste just like potato.

就像有一次我递给她一个苹果，她摇摇头说，苹果的味道就像土豆一样。

And I'd rather have potato.

我宁愿吃土豆。

The things she loved seemed just as impassioned and just as arbitrary-- the lottery, which she won over 40 times in her life, this one ditzy girl on the Korean soap operas, and me.

她所爱的东西似乎同样热情，也同样随意——她一生中了40多次的彩票，韩国肥皂剧中的那个傻女孩，还有我。

I once asked my mom why I got the special treatment I did.

我曾经问妈妈为什么我会受到特殊待遇。

She said it was simple.

她说很简单。

I was the favorite because my dad was the eldest son in the family and I was his firstborn child.

我是最受欢迎的，因为我爸爸是家里的长子，而我是他的长子。

This sounded enough like something out of an Amy Tan novel for me to believe it.

这听起来就像谭恩美小说中的内容，让我相信。

I left it at that.

我就这样留下了。

But things all started to change when I was 13.

但当我13岁的时候，一切都开始改变。

Everyone in the family heard about that one day in August when my mom told my dad and me that she was leaving us.

八月的一天，家里的每个人都听说了这件事，当时我妈妈告诉我爸爸和我她要离开我们。

They heard about the lawyers, the money, the house.

他们听说了律师、金钱和房子。

And they heard about what a brat I was after, which I was.

他们听说我在追寻一个多么顽皮的孩子，我确实是这样。

I argued with my teachers, flunked out of a lot of classes.

我和老师吵架，很多课都被挂掉了。

When my dad started dating, he wasn't around much, didn't even come home lots of nights.

当我爸爸开始约会时，他不在身边，甚至很多晚上都不回家。

And I started fighting with him all the time.

我开始一直和他吵架。

I set his copy of Parenting Your Out-of-Control Teenager on fire and almost burned the apartment down in the process.

我把他的那本《养育你失控的青少年》放火烧了，在这个过程中差点烧毁了公寓。

Two years after my mother left, my dad moved out completely, went to his girlfriend's place.

我母亲离开两年后，我父亲彻底搬了出去，去了他女朋友家。

I found a roast chicken on the kitchen counter once a week.

我每周都会在厨房柜台上发现一只烤鸡。

But basically, he left me in the house on my own.

但基本上，他把我一个人留在家里。

I was 16 and furious.

当时我16岁，我很愤怒。

I knew my family in Malaysia got an earful about my bad behavior.

我知道我在马来西亚的家人对我的不良行为很不满。

I got a couple of emails from aunts telling me I needed to get it together.

我收到了几封阿姨们发来的电子邮件，告诉我我需要把它整合起来。

And that cousin who loved to draw, she wrote me to say I ought to feel bad for breaking up my parents' marriage.

那个喜欢画画的表姐写信给我说，我应该为破坏父母的婚姻而感到难过。

So I stopped emailing my family.

所以我不再给家人发电子邮件了。

I got up the nerve to visit Malaysia again after I graduated from high school-- not with my dad, though.

高中毕业后，我鼓起勇气再次访问马来西亚，不过不是和父亲一起。

I brought my boyfriend instead.

我带了我男朋友来代替。

And things started off normal enough.

一切开始都很正常。

Auntie cracked jokes about my boyfriend's surprising ability to eat spicy food.

阿姨开玩笑说我男朋友吃辣的能力惊人。

She'd call him "the white devil" and cackle.

她会称他为“白色魔鬼”并咯咯地笑。

But everyone seemed a little reserved.

但大家都显得有些矜持。

I wasn't the golden child anymore.

我不再是那个金童了。

I had a filthy mouth and blue hair.

我有一张肮脏的嘴和蓝色的头发。

I picked fights about their opinions and their politics.

我因他们的观点和政治而争论。

Finally, someone asked me how my dad was.

终于有人问我爸爸怎么样了。

I said I didn't know.

我说我不知道​​。

I said he was an asshole.

我说他是个混蛋。

They got defensive.

他们采取了防御措施。

Auntie and the rest of my family asked me why I couldn't be a better daughter.

阿姨和我的家人问我为什么不能成为一个更好的女儿。

They asked me if the stories they'd heard were true-- the one about the burning books, the one about me chucking my dad's car keys into some bushes.

他们问我他们听到的故事是否属实——关于焚烧书籍的故事，关于我把父亲的车钥匙扔进灌木丛的故事。

OK, yes.

好的，是的。

It was true.

这是真的。

I had done all of those things.

我已经做了所有这些事情。

But then I realized they didn't know that my dad had moved out.

但后来我意识到他们不知道我爸爸已经搬出去了。

They didn't know that most days, it was all I could do to microwave a Hot Pocket for dinner.

他们不知道，大多数时候，我所能做的就是用微波炉加热热袋作为晚餐。

When I told them, they didn't believe it.

当我告诉他们时，他们不相信。

Before they took me to the airport, Auntie grabbed hold of me and hugged me tight to her.

在他们送我去机场之前，阿姨抓住了我，紧紧地拥抱着我。

And then she whispered in my ear, you are not a good person, OK?

然后她在我耳边低声说，你不是一个好人，好吗？

You need to become a better person.

你需要成为一个更好的人。

Then she let go and walked away.

然后她松开手，走开了。

I didn't go back to Malaysia after that.

之后我就没有再去马来西亚。

Instead, I grew up.

相反，我长大了。

I learned how to land a job, make a paella, buy a car.

我学会了如何找到工作、做海鲜饭、买车。

I learned a few deep breathing exercises.

我学会了一些深呼吸练习。

I didn't set anything else on fire.

我没有放火烧其他任何东西。

Finally, a couple years ago, my father called me and told me that Auntie was sick.

最后，几年前，我父亲打电话给我，告诉我阿姨病了。

She was stable, but I should make a point to visit.

她的情况很稳定，但我应该特意去看望她。

So I went back with my dad.

于是我就跟着爸爸回去了。

It felt weird traveling with him because for years, we'd never spent more than a couple hours together.

和他一起旅行感觉很奇怪，因为多年来我们在一起的时间从未超过几个小时。

But when Auntie saw me, she was so excited she almost fell over.

可是阿姨看到我的时候，激动得差点摔倒。

She grabbed the edge of the table next to her just in time and cried out, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] You're so pretty.

她及时抓住了旁边的桌子边缘，大声喊道：[非英语演讲]你真漂亮。

I relaxed.

我放松了。

All was forgiven.

一切都被原谅了。

Auntie loved me again.

阿姨又爱我了。

She brought me food.

她给我带来了食物。

She held my hand as we watched TV.

我们一起看电视时，她握着我的手。

I stayed with her a little over a week.

我和她呆了一个多星期。

I started recording some of my conversations with her.

我开始记录我和她的一些谈话。

I wanted to remember this.

我想记住这一点。

Auntie told me stories from the gambling den, told me about my grandma flirting with boys for free sodas.

阿姨给我讲了赌场里的故事，还给我讲了我奶奶为了免费汽水而和男孩子调情的事。

And then she started talking about when I was a little kid.

然后她开始谈论我小时候的事。

And she said this thing that, when she said it, felt like she took a box full of everything I thought I knew about my relationship with her, about my relationship with Malaysia, and dumped it out on the floor.

她说这句话的时候，感觉就像她拿了一个盒子，里面装满了我自以为知道的关于我和她的关系、关于我和马来西亚的关系的一切，然后把它倒在地板上。

I'll play you some of this.

我给你播放一些这个。

Take note-- Auntie's English wasn't very good.

请注意——阿姨的英语不太好。

She could only talk in the present tense, even when she was referring to the past.

即使她指的是过去，她也只能用现在时说话。

And she didn't have her dentures in at this point.

而且此时她还没有戴假牙。

But she started banging her fist on the table, and she said that the reason everyone had been kind to me when I was a kid was because they all knew that I'd suffered a lot.

但她开始用拳头敲桌子，她说我小时候大家之所以对我好，是因为他们都知道我受过很多苦。

Here's the tape.

这是磁带。

Everybody is kind to you because everyone knows that you suffer a lot.

每个人都对你很好，因为每个人都知道你受了很多苦。

That's why they're so kind to you.

这就是为什么他们对你这么好。

Wow.

哇。

Auntie Because they realize that when you're young, you suffer a lot.

阿姨因为他们意识到，当你年轻的时候，你会受很多苦。

Yeah.

是的。

And when she said that, something clicked.

当她这么说的时候，突然灵光一闪。

I knew what she was talking about.

我知道她在说什么。

She was talking about my mom.

她正在谈论我的妈妈。

When I was a kid, if I lost something or said something wrong or didn't clean a dish properly, my mother would scream, hit me.

当我还是个孩子的时候，如果我丢了东西，或者说错了话，或者没有正确地清洗盘子，我妈妈就会尖叫，打我。

Sometimes she'd threaten to kill herself.

有时她会威胁要自杀。

I was never not scared growing up.

我从小到大都没有不害怕过。

That's how I remember it, anyway.

无论如何，我就是这样记住的。

My mother remembers it differently.

我母亲的记忆却有所不同。

Before I go on, this is from the email she sent to our fact checker.

在我继续之前，这是她发送给我们的事实核查人员的电子邮件。

Quote, "My daughter's stories about me that she has related to you are figments of her imagination or, at best, highly prejudiced memories.

引用：“我女儿向你讲述的关于我的故事只是她想象中的虚构，或者充其量是高度偏见的记忆。

If released publicly, I would consider these fabrications and distortions about me as personally very damaging." End quote.

如果公开发布，我会认为这些对我个人的捏造和歪曲对我个人来说是非常有害的。”结束报价。

But what my Auntie told me on tape was that basically, everyone was so nice to me not because I was the oldest child of the first-born son and not because my cheeks were chubby but because they saw what my mother was doing to me.

但我阿姨在录音中告诉我的是，基本上，每个人对我都这么好，不是因为我是长子中最大的孩子，也不是因为我的脸颊胖乎乎的，而是因为他们看到了我母亲对我所做的一切。

Did you see her beat me?

你看见她打我了吗？

Auntie Yeah.

阿姨 是啊。

Everybody also seen her.

大家也都看到了她。

I'm asking Auntie if she saw my mom beat me.

我问阿姨是否看到我妈妈打我。

And she says everyone saw.

她说每个人都看到了。

You know that scene in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind where he's in Barnes & Noble and slowly, all off the lights turn off, one by one, leaving him in darkness?

你知道《一尘不染的心灵的永恒阳光》中他在巴诺书店的那个场景吗？慢慢地，所有的灯都一一熄灭，把他留在黑暗中？

As Auntie was talking into my tape recorder, it felt like the opposite, like all the lights were turning on.

当阿姨对着我的录音机说话时，感觉却恰恰相反，就像所有的灯都亮了。

I saw my family, saw Auntie popping back up in those memories in a way I'd never imagined before-- with them listening through walls, peering around corners.

我看到了我的家人，看到阿姨以一种我以前从未想象过的方式突然出现在那些记忆中——他们透过墙壁倾听，在角落里张望。

Suddenly, I remembered this one time in my uncle's house in Malaysia.

突然，我想起了一次在马来西亚叔叔家的经历。

I wasn't allowed to eat dinner.

我不被允许吃晚饭。

Instead, my mom told me I had to cross my arms, pull on my earlobes, and do squats in front of my family, who ate their meal in silence.

相反，我妈妈告诉我，我必须交叉双臂，拉着耳垂，在家人面前蹲下，他们默默地吃着饭。

And then there was a time during a visit when I was six, and I disagreed with my mom about what my homework assignment was.

在我六岁的一次访问中，有一次我和妈妈对我的家庭作业有不同意见。

She started beating me with a ruler.

她开始用尺子打我。

I think it was a ruler.

我认为那是一个统治者。

It went on for a long time.

这样的情况持续了很长时间。

At some point, I tried to hide under a table.

有一次，我试图躲在桌子底下。

As she pulled me out by the legs, I started to scream for mercy.

当她抓住我的腿把我拉出来时，我开始尖叫求饶。

I knew that the house was full of family.

我知道这房子里住满了家人。

I wondered why nobody was coming to help me.

我想知道为什么没有人来帮助我。

I thought, they must not be able to hear me.

我想，他们一定听不到我的声音。

I felt totally alone.

我感到完全孤独。

I was not alone.

我并不孤单。

Here's me and Auntie again.

我和阿姨又来了。

I'm speaking in Manglish, Malaysian pidgin English.

我说的是 Manglish，马来西亚洋泾浜英语。

I never thought this would be on the radio.

我从没想过这会出现在广播中。

How come you never say anything when she beat me?

她打我的时候你怎么不说话？

You say anything, who suffer?

你说什么，谁受苦？

Your father.

你的父亲。

She's saying if they said anything, who would suffer?

她说如果他们说什么，谁会受苦？

Your father would.

你父亲会的。

What about me suffer?

我受苦又怎样？

Auntie You, you suffer?

尤阿姨，你难受吗？

If we say, don't do that, she would done more.

如果我们说，不要这样做，她会做得更多。

You suffer.

你受苦了。

If you say don't do that, she'll do more.

如果你说不要这样做，她就会做更多。

She'll beat more.

她会打得更多。

Stephanie Foo She'll beat more.

Stephanie Foo 她会击败更多。

Not to say it stop.

不是说停止。

You thinking like that?

你是这样想的吗？

Not to say it'll stop.

并不是说它会停止。

You think it's like that?

你认为是这样的吗？

Meaning, your mom didn't stop when we said something.

意思是，当我们说话时，你妈妈并没有停下来。

You think it's that simple?

你以为事情就这么简单吗？

Then Auntie told me this story about how once when I was little I woke up scared in the middle of the night and walked into her room.

然后阿姨给我讲了一个故事，说我小时候有一次半夜被吓醒，走进她的房间。

She woke up and whispered reassurances and ushered me back into bed as quickly and quietly as she could.

她醒了，低声安慰我，并尽可能快、安静地把我带回床上。

She was terrified the entire time.

她自始至终都处于恐惧之中。

She said she believed if my mom found out that I got up in the middle of the night, she'd hurt me.

她说她相信如果我妈妈发现我半夜起床，她会伤害我。

So Auntie did not dare wake her up or tell her what happened.

所以阿姨不敢叫醒她，也不敢告诉她发生了什么事。

All that fawning, those compliments-- Auntie told me they were only in part for me.

所有那些阿谀奉承、那些恭维——阿姨告诉我，这些只是部分是为了我。

My family indulged me with that immense display of kindness to show my mom how I deserved to be loved.

我的家人对我表现出了极大的善意，让我妈妈知道我是多么值得被爱。

It didn't work, but I'm still grateful.

虽然没有成功，但我还是很感激。

Because sure, it was a lie.

因为可以肯定的是，这是一个谎言。

I wasn't the favorite.

我不是最喜欢的。

But the truth was better than the lie.

但事实胜于谎言。

For years, I thought nobody got it, that nobody was on my side.

多年来，我以为没有人明白这一点，没有人站在我这边。

But they were.

但他们确实是。

Auntie was.

阿姨是。

Stephanie Foo is one of the producers of our program.

Stephanie Foo 是我们节目的制作人之一。

[MUSIC - "KEPT IN THE DARK" BY ZACHARY THOMAS DIEDRICH]

[音乐 - 扎卡里·托马斯·迪德里希的《KEPT IN THE DARK》]

Our program was produced today by Jonathan Menjivar with Zoe Chace, Sean Cole, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, Miki Meek, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.

我们今天的节目由 Jonathan Menjivar 与 Zoe Chace、Sean Cole、Stephanie Foo、Chana Joffe-Walt、Miki Meek、Brian Reed、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。

Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.

我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。

Editing help from Joel Lovell, production help from Simon Adler.

乔尔·洛弗尔 (Joel Lovell) 提供编辑帮助，西蒙·阿德勒 (Simon Adler) 提供制作帮助。

Seth Lind is our operations director.

塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。

Emily Condon's our production manager.

艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。

Elise Bergerson's our office manager.

埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的办公室经理。

Elna Baker scouts stories for our show.

艾尔娜·贝克为我们的节目寻找故事。

Research help today from Michelle Harris and Christopher Swetala.

米歇尔·哈里斯 (Michelle Harris) 和克里斯托弗·斯韦塔拉 (Christopher Swetala) 今天为研究提供了帮助。

Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddis.

Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddis 提供音乐帮助。

This is our last program with Adrianne Mathiowetz.

这是我们与阿德琳娜·马修维茨的最后一个节目。

For eight years, Adrianne has been the one who has been running our website, which means a lot of things, including emailing with thousands and thousands of you.

八年来，阿德里安娜一直是我们网站的运营者，这意味着很多事情，包括与成千上万的人发送电子邮件。

When you right to us, you are usually first emailing with her.

当您联系我们时，您通常首先会与她发送电子邮件。

And if you have done that over the years, you know that she is lovely and level-headed and smart and just great.

如果你多年来一直这样做，你就会知道她很可爱、头脑冷静、聪明而且很棒。

We will miss her.

我们会想念她的。

She has always been a part-time photographer and now she's becoming a full-time one.

她一直是一名兼职摄影师，现在她正在成为一名全职摄影师。

She is available for your freelance gigs, by the way.

顺便说一句，她可以参加您的自由职业演出。

We wish her the best.

我们祝她一切顺利。

Our website-- thisamericanlife.org.

我们的网站——thisamericanlife.org。

This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.

《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。

Thanks as always, to our program's cofounder, Mr. Torey Matatia.

一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Matatia 先生。

On vacation this year, he tried to go to Disney World but ended up at Sea World.

今年度假时，他想去迪士尼世界，但最终去了海洋世界。

I was in the wrong world.

我在错误的世界里。

That's what it felt like.

就是这样的感觉。

I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.

我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。

This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.

《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。