551: Good Guys 2015 - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #551 | March 20, 2015 551: Good Guys 2015 Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 551 集 | 2015 年 3 月 20 日 551：Good Guys 2015 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass OK, here's what intrigued Ben.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 好吧，这就是本感兴趣的地方。
His friend Sonari had told him that he'd come up with this thing.
他的朋友索纳里告诉他，他想出了这个东西。
And there's no way to say this without sounding like an infomercial, but Sonari was doing this thing that was saving him lots of money.
说这句话听起来就像是电视广告，但索纳里所做的这件事为他节省了很多钱。
And Sonari is exactly the kind of person who would know about this kind of thing.
而索纳里正是那种会知道这种事情的人。
He's a business reporter.
他是一名商业记者。
He's one of our colleagues at NPR News.
他是我们在 NPR 新闻的同事之一。
Anyway, here's Ben.
无论如何，这是本。
He told me he was just saving on everything.
他告诉我他只是在节省一切。
Like he used it for shoes, for clothes, big stuff like new tires.
就像他用它来制作鞋子、衣服、新轮胎等大东西一样。
Ben, by the way, is This American Life producer Ben Calhoun.
顺便说一句，本是《美国生活》的制片人本·卡尔霍恩。
He and Sonari are buddies, and Ben says that Sonari came up with this new financial strategy one day when Sonari was shopping for shoes.
他和索纳里是朋友，本说索纳里有一天在买鞋子时想出了这一新的财务策略。
And he realized that all the shoes that he wanted were the super expensive shoes.
他意识到他想要的都是超级昂贵的鞋子。
Oh.
哦。
Ben Calhoun Yeah.
本·卡尔霍恩 是的。
Yeah.
是的。
And he keeps coming back to this pair that's way too expensive.
他不断地回到这双太贵的鞋子上。
And he stays there for hours stressing about this decision, until finally he caved.
他在那里呆了好几个小时，一直在强调这个决定，直到最后他屈服了。
So he's like, I'm just gonna do it.
所以他说，我就这么做。
I'm gonna do it.
我会做的。
I'm gonna do it.
我会做的。
So he got up to the counter, and this is what he says happened.
于是他走到柜台前，他说这就是发生的事情。
I remembered this thing a guy that I'd interviewed had talked about, about the good guy discount.
我记得我采访过的一个人谈到过这件事，关于好人折扣。
The good guy discount?
好人折扣？
Ben Calhoun The good guy discount.
本·卡尔霍恩《好人》折扣。
This is the thing.
就是这样。
Sonari, he'd interviewed this negotiations expert from Columbia University Business School.
索纳里，他采访了这位来自哥伦比亚大学商学院的谈判专家。
And the guy told him about this technique where you say, can I get a good guy discount on that?
那个人告诉了他这个技巧，你说，我可以得到一个好人折扣吗？
You're a good guy.
你是个好人。
I'm a good guy.
我是个好人。
Come on, just a good guy discount.
来吧，只是一个好人折扣。
Wow.
哇。
Ben Calhoun So Sonari remembered this when he was about to buy these shoes.
Ben Calhoun So Sonari 在准备购买这双鞋时想起了这一点。
And honestly, he didn't think it was going to work.
老实说，他认为这不会起作用。
And I go, hey you know, is there a good guy discount?
我就说，嘿，你知道，好人有折扣吗？
And he goes, what?
他走了，什么？
It's like, you know, you've seen me here all day.
就像，你知道，你一整天都在这里看到我。
You know I want these shoes.
你知道我想要这双鞋。
It's tough for me, blah, blah, blah.
对我来说太难了，哈哈哈哈哈哈
And he looks at me and he goes, I tell you what, brother.
他看着我，然后说道，我告诉你吧，兄弟。
And he swiped the card--
然后他刷了卡——
Yeah.
是的。
And he goes, I'll give you 25% off.
他说，我给你 25% 的折扣。
[LAUGHING] It was the most positive reinforcement you could ever get.
[笑]这是你能得到的最积极的强化。
[LAUGHS] Sonari Glinton Like, I was so happy.
[笑] 索纳里·格林顿 就像，我很高兴。
So Sonari told Ben all this because Sonari had started doing this all the time, asking for the good guy discount.
所以索纳里把这一切都告诉了本，因为索纳里一直开始这样做，要求好人折扣。
And he thought that Ben should try it too.
他认为本也应该尝试一下。
And Ben suggested this might be a good radio story for our show.
本建议这对于我们的节目来说可能是一个很好的广播故事。
And all of us here at the ratio show, we all said great.
我们所有人都在比率展上，我们都说太棒了。
And we all told him, of course, as part of the story you're gonna have to go out and try to get the discount yourself.
当然，我们都告诉他，作为故事的一部分，你必须自己出去尝试获得折扣。
And Ben turned red and started to squirm, but he said sure.
本脸红了，开始蠕动，但他说当然可以。
And we put it into our story list, and it sat there.
我们把它放入我们的故事列表中，然后它就放在那里。
And a month went by, and then a second month, and a third-- six months, nine months, 11 months.
一个月过去了，第二个月、第三个月——六个月、九个月、十一个月。
And now and then, one of us would remember this at a story meeting and say, whatever happened to that good guy discount thing?
有时，我们中的一个人会在故事会议上想起这一点并说，那个好人打折的事情发生了什么？
And Ben would get all embarrassed.
本会感到很尴尬。
And it was clear he was just hating the idea that he was going to actually have to go out in the world and do this thing.
很明显，他只是讨厌这样的想法：他实际上必须走出去，做这件事。
He could not bring himself to.
他无法让自己清醒过来。
I just could not get over the pitch itself.
我就是无法克服球场本身。
It's so cheesy.
太俗气了。
To say, I'm a good guy, you're a good guy.
说起来，我是好人，你也是好人。
Yeah.
是的。
I think it's kinda smarmy.
我觉得这有点狡猾。
Like, I love Sonari.
就像，我喜欢索纳里。
I love Sonari.
我爱索纳里。
I think that Sonari is a wonderful person.
我认为索纳里是一个很棒的人。
But it traffics in this term of good guy when it's nonsense.
但当它是胡说八道时，它就会以“好人”这个词来传播。
It's me saying, I'm a good guy, which I feel like it's the kind of thing of saying like, I'm so humble.
我是在说，我是一个好人，我觉得这就像在说，我很谦虚。
The second part of it is you're saying, and the thing I'm going to do as a good guy is I'm going to ask you to do me a favor and cost yourself money.
第二部分是你说的，作为一个好人，我要做的就是请你帮我一个忙，并让你自己花钱。
That's what a good guy I am.
这就是我是一个好人。
And I don't know.
我不知道。
I find it to be not the behavior of a good guy.
我觉得这不是一个好人的行为。
A good guy, Ben said, would not make somebody else uncomfortable on purpose.
本说，一个好人不会故意让别人感到不舒服。
And he was convinced that asking for a good guy discount, it puts the sales person on the spot.
他确信，要求好人折扣可以让销售人员处于困境。
You're asking them to break the rules for you for absolutely no reason.
你毫无理由地要求他们为你违反规则。
And I hate making other people feel uncomfortable.
我讨厌让别人感到不舒服。
I have a different take on it than you do.
我对此的看法与你不同。
I think it shows moxie.
我认为这显示了勇气。
[LAUGHS] Ira Glass And the good guy discount is part of what makes this country great, even if Sonari's the only one who's doing it.
[笑] Ira Glass 好人折扣是让这个国家变得伟大的一部分，即使索纳里是唯一一个这样做的人。
That impulse of just like, I'm just going to go for it.
那种冲动，我就要去追求。
I'm going to say something that's ridiculous and corny and just see if it works.
我要说一些可笑又老套的话，看看它是否有效。
I mean, you know, in the movies, that's what gets the girl.
我的意思是，你知道，在电影中，这就是吸引女孩的原因。
In the movies, that's what makes you a hero.
在电影中，这就是让你成为英雄的原因。
If I were to try this three times, how many times do you think it would work?
如果我尝试三次，你认为多少次会有效？
One.
一。
Ben Calhoun So here's one question before I go in.
本·卡尔霍恩：在我进入之前，有一个问题。
Is it important that I do the whole, I'm a good guy, you're a good guy?
我做全部，我是一个好人，你也是一个好人，这重要吗？
You gotta say something.
你得说点什么。
What else are you gonna say?
你还想说什么？
Well, today on our radio program, good guys.
好吧，今天在我们的广播节目中，好家伙。
We have four stories including I go with Ben as he tries to find out whether or not he has what it takes to get free stuff by claiming to be a good guy, even though he worries that doing that, trying the entire exercise, means that he is not a good guy at all, because friends, it is a struggle sometimes to know what a good guy would and would not do.
我们有四个故事，包括我和本一起去，因为他试图找出他是否有能力通过声称自己是一个好人来获得免费的东西，尽管他担心这样做，尝试整个练习，意味着他根本不是一个好人，因为朋友们，有时很难知道一个好人会做什么和不会做什么。
And in each of our stories today, we have guys trying to find that line, trying to stay on one side of the line, trying to stay good guys in a world where we all know, that can be very, very difficult.
在我们今天的每个故事中，我们都有人试图找到那条线，试图留在这条线的一边，试图在我们都知道的世界中保持好人，这可能非常非常困难。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, "Takes One to Know One." So after 11 months of stalling, Ben finally headed out to get himself the good guy discount wearing a microphone hidden underneath his shirt.
第一幕，“知己知彼”。因此，在拖延了 11 个月之后，本最终将麦克风藏在衬衫下面，出去享受好人折扣。
I went with him.
我和他一起去了。
First place we go, a baby store.
我们去的第一个地方，是一家母婴店。
It's a big national chain.
这是一家全国性的大型连锁企业。
I've bought stuff at this particular store before.
我以前在这家商店买过东西。
And for our test, I chose one of these baby items that's mind blowingly expensive, so much so that it's hard to imagine anyone actually buying it.
在我们的测试中，我选择了其中一种婴儿用品，它的价格非常昂贵，以至于很难想象有人会真正购买它。
It's a blanket for a stroller.
这是婴儿车的毯子。
It cost $190.
花了 190 美元。
My thought in doing this is that the markup is probably so insane that it'd make it easier to give a discount.
我这样做的想法是，加价可能太疯狂了，以至于更容易给予折扣。
Anyway, so I grab one and I get in line.
无论如何，所以我拿了一个然后排队。
Now I feel nervous.
现在我感到紧张。
The whole pitch still makes me queasy.
整个球场仍然让我感到恶心。
But I'm committed to selling it as best I can.
但我致力于尽我所能出售它。
There's one cashier working.
有一名收银员在工作。
Hey, how you doing today?
嘿，你今天过得怎么样？
Cashier 1 I'm good, and you?
收银员 1 我很好，你呢？
$206.85.
206.85 美元。
Ben Calhoun Is there any way I could get a good guy discount on that?
本·卡尔霍恩 有什么办法可以让我得到好人折扣吗？
Good guy discount?
好人折扣？
I don't think we do those.
我不认为我们会做这些。
[LAUGHS] It's hard to hear.
[笑]很难听清。
But when I ask for the discount, she cracks a smile and kind of laughs and says, "Good guy discount?
但当我要求打折时，她笑了，笑道：“好人打折吗？
We don't do those."
我们不做那些。”
Are there any promotions coming up?
有什么促销活动吗？
Or is this going to go on sale any time soon or anything?
或者这会很快上市销售吗？
No, nothing?
没有，什么也没有？
I leave the thing on the counter.
我把东西留在柜台上。
So first attempt, we're 0 for one.
所以第一次尝试，我们是 0 比 1。
Ira felt like I should have tried harder.
艾拉觉得我应该更加努力。
And for the next one, I should keep the thing going longer, lean harder on the schtick.
对于下一个，我应该让事情持续更长的时间，更加依靠这个技巧。
I'm a good guy, you're a good guy.
我是个好人，你也是个好人。
What do you say?
你怎么说？
Yeah, I guess I'll try the nine first.
是的，我想我会先尝试九个。
Do they run a little big?
他们跑得有点大吗？
This item?
这个项目？
Winter boots.
冬季靴子。
We go to a big, big sporting goods store, though not a chain, just in case some strict corporate policy had been the problem at the baby store.
我们去了一家很大很大的体育用品店，虽然不是连锁店，以防婴儿用品店出现了一些严格的公司政策问题。
At the registers, I get called up.
在收银台，我被叫到了。
There's a woman, maybe late 20s.
有一个女人，大概20多岁。
She's got a lot of makeup.
她化了很多妆。
She looks fed up with something.
她看起来厌倦了某件事。
My thought is, I'll smile a little more, be a little more friendly.
我的想法是，我会多微笑一点，更加友善一点。
And I know this is going to sound silly.
我知道这听起来很愚蠢。
Is there any way-- is there any kind of good guy discount I can get on those?
有什么办法——我可以得到任何好人折扣吗？
No. We don't offer-- it's just whatever the vendor sells it for.
不，我们不提供——这只是供应商出售的价格。
So there's no promotions that I'm missing out on?
那么我没有错过任何促销活动吗？
No. Ben Calhoun 0 for two.
本·卡尔霍恩 0 为两人。
She sends me on my way.
她送我上路。
Have a good one.
祝你过得愉快。
It's like have a nice day with all the friendly burned off.
这就像度过了美好的一天，所有的友好都被烧毁了。
So Ira and I head outside.
于是我和艾拉就出去了。
You didn't push it very far.
你没有把它推得太远。
You still just kept it to one sentence before you caved.
你还是只说了一句话就屈服了。
No, but I came back with, so there's not any sales or promotions that I'm missing out on?
没有，但我回来了，所以我没有错过任何促销或促销活动？
And she was like--
而她就像——
But that's different than selling her the good guy discount.
但这与以好人折扣卖给她不同。
You mean being like, come on, I'm a good guy.
你的意思是说，拜托，我是个好人。
Uh huh.
嗯嗯。
Yeah, you still haven't said that.
是啊，你还没说呢。
Oh, that feels-- but you know what?
哦，那种感觉——但你知道吗？
I feel like I could tell that she was going to say no.
我觉得我可以看出她会拒绝。
No. No, I couldn't tell.
不，不，我不知道。
Ben Calhoun And at that point, all you're getting is humiliated.
本·卡尔霍恩：到那时，你得到的只是羞辱。
We go around and around, until we remember, oh right, we can just find out.
我们绕来绕去，直到我们记起，哦，对了，我们可以找到答案。
Ira goes back in.
艾拉回去了。
My friend was just in here and he tried to get a discount from you?
我的朋友刚刚在这里，他想从你那里得到折扣？
He asked you for a good guy discount?
他问你给好人折扣吗？
Yes.
是的。
Yes, I recall.
是的，我记得。
Ira Glass Yeah.
艾拉·格拉斯 是的。
If he had pushed harder, could he have gotten a discount?
如果他更努力的话，他能得到折扣吗？
No. Ira Glass If he had been more charming, do you get an employee discount that you could have swiped a card and given him?
不。艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 如果他更有魅力，你会得到可以刷卡给他的员工折扣吗？
Do you have any kind of discount at all?
你们有任何折扣吗？
Do you have any kind of power to give him?
你有什么权力可以给他吗？
So if your sister came in here or something, could you give he discount?
那么如果你姐姐来这里或者什么的，你能给他折扣吗？
Right, which I'm rung up by another fellow manager or associate.
是的，另一位经理或同事给我打电话。
See?
看？
All of this brings us to attempt number three, record store.
所有这些让我们进行了第三次尝试，即唱片店。
Yeah, they do still exist.
是的，它们确实仍然存在。
I grab what should amount to $70 worth of records.
我拿走了价值 70 美元的唱片。
I go to the counter.
我去柜台。
Behind it, there's a serious record store guy-- black hoodie, black wool hat, hair sticking out of the front.
在它后面，有一个严肃的唱片店家伙——黑色连帽衫，黑色羊毛帽子，头发从前面伸出。
How you doing?
你好吗？
Ben Calhoun Hey, is there any way I could get a good guy discount on those?
本·卡尔霍恩（Ben Calhoun）嘿，有什么办法可以让我在这些商品上获得好人折扣吗？
No. 'Cause we barely make a profit on that stuff.
不。因为我们在这些东西上几乎没有利润。
Yeah, so I'm afraid not.
是的，所以恐怕不是。
I mean, so many noes in such a tiny, tiny answer.
我的意思是，在如此微小的答案中，有这么多的“不”。
I counted them.
我数了数。
Five nos in 8.7 seconds.
8.7 秒内五次失败。
It's like a Russian nesting doll of no.
它就像一个俄罗斯套娃。
And really, I would argue it's hard to say no that thoroughly, unless you actually want to say no. Unless you think you're being asked for something stupid by someone stupid.
事实上，我认为很难彻底拒绝，除非你真的想拒绝。除非你认为某个愚蠢的人向你提出了愚蠢的要求。
This is what I believed would happen.
这就是我相信会发生的事情。
And this one, it makes me 0 for three.
而这个，它让我三分为0。
And I gotta say, it felt bad.
我得说，感觉很糟糕。
And it raises the obvious question, what does Sonari have that I don't?
这提出了一个显而易见的问题，索纳里有什么是我没有的？
As we headed back to the office, Ira said, maybe he's just more charming and better looking.
当我们回到办公室时，艾拉说，也许他只是更迷人、更帅了。
So I called Sonari, and I asked him something that I probably should have asked him before, which is exactly how often does this work for him?
所以我打电话给索纳里，我问了他一些我之前可能应该问他的问题，这对他来说到底有多少次有效？
He only gets one out of five.
他只得到五分之一。
I tried three times.
我试了三次。
So I needed two more tries.
所以我还需要两次尝试。
Fine.
美好的。
So here we are, number four.
所以我们在这里，第四。
The item is a clock.
该物品是一个时钟。
And here we go.
我们开始吧。
Is there any way that you guys would give a good guy discount on that?
你们有什么办法可以给好人折扣吗？
No, I'm sorry.
不，对不起。
Ben Calhoun No, not at all?
本·卡尔霍恩 不，一点也不？
0 for four.
0 为四。
I head to a small cookware shop.
我前往一家小炊具店。
And if Sonari's stats are one in five, this is the big game.
如果索纳里的数据是五分之一，那么这就是一场重要的比赛。
Do or die time.
要么做，要么死。
If the good guy discount is real for me, then this is it.
如果好人折扣对我来说是真实的，那么就是这样。
Mm hmm?
嗯嗯？
Ben Calhoun Pot up here, would you guys ever give a good guy discount on this?
本·卡尔霍恩·波特（Ben Calhoun Pot）在这里，你们会给好人折扣吗？
You know, it's hard.
你知道，这很难。
I could probably do about 5%.
我大概可以做到5%左右。
Like the sword from the stone, my friend.
就像石头里的剑一样，我的朋友。
Behold, the good guy discount.
看哪，好人折扣。
Apparently, it can work for anybody.
显然，它对任何人都适用。
It'll work for you.
它会对你有用。
But can we just stop for a second?
但我们能停一下吗？
Just stop.
停下来吧。
And I know that this is going to sound super earnest, and I'm real sorry about that.
我知道这听起来非常认真，对此我真的很抱歉。
But I believe it, so I gotta say it.
但我相信，所以我必须说出来。
I don't think that you should try it.
我认为你不应该尝试。
I'm not gonna try it again.
我不会再尝试了。
Sorry, Sonari.
对不起，索纳里。
I just don't think that we should go throwing around the term good guy like it's some kind of coupon.
我只是认为我们不应该像使用某种优惠券一样使用“好人”这个词。
I think that good guy means something.
我认为好人是有一定意义的。
Just the other day, I was with my son and my dad, and my kid is eating cake.
就在前几天，我和我的儿子和爸爸在一起，我的孩子正在吃蛋糕。
He's two.
他两岁了。
He loves cakes.
他喜欢蛋糕。
And he's got one bite left.
他还剩下一口。
And I say, can I have a bite?
我说，我可以吃一口吗？
And he looks up at me and he holds out his hand, offers me his last bite.
他抬头看着我，伸出手，给我最后一口。
And my dad says, what a good guy.
我爸爸说，真是个好人。
When I was a kid, he used to say that to me too.
当我还是个孩子的时候，他也经常对我这么说。
I like the way the world looks during those moments.
我喜欢那些时刻世界的样子。
I think I'd rather have whatever that is than a discount.
我想我宁愿拥有任何东西，也不愿享受折扣。
Ben Calhoun.
本·卡尔霍恩.
Act Two: The Heels On The Bus Ira Glass Act Two, "The Heels on the Bus." So a test of whether or not you are a good guy, it can happen anywhere, as Mike Birbiglia well knows.
第二幕：公交车上的高跟鞋 艾拉·格拉斯 第二幕，“公交车上的高跟鞋”。因此，迈克·比尔比利亚（Mike Birbiglia）深知，对你是否是好人的考验，在任何地方都可能发生。
He's a comedian and told this story onstage in New York.
他是一位喜剧演员，在纽约的舞台上讲述了这个故事。
Last week I was meeting my wife in the city for dinner.
上周我在城里和我的妻子共进晚餐。
And I went down to take the subway.
然后我就下楼去坐地铁了。
And one of the unfortunate things about living in New York with the subway-- and you guys probably know this-- is sometimes on the weekends the subway is just off.
住在纽约有地铁的不幸的事情之一——你们可能知道这一点——就是有时周末地铁就停了。
[LAUGHTER] And there'll just be a sign.
[笑声]只会有一个标志。
There's just like, there isn't the subway.
就好像没有地铁一样。
You know, and it'll say, you could take the bus.
你知道，它会说，你可以乘坐公共汽车。
You know, it's written in pencil and there's an ellipsis, you know.
你知道，它是用铅笔写的，有一个省略号。
And so last weekend that happened.
上周末就发生了这样的事。
And so I walked up to the bus and I said to the bus driver, hey, the subway's off.
于是我走到公交车前，对公交车司机说，嘿，地铁停了。
But it said that I could take the bus to the subway.
但上面说可以坐公交车去地铁。
Do you know where I can get off?
你知道我在哪里下车吗？
And the bus driver said to me-- and I quote-- he goes, I don't know anything about the subway.
公交车司机对我说——我引用——他说，我对地铁一无所知。
I was like, you don't know anything about the subway?
我当时就想，你对地铁一无所知吗？
You're wearing the same outfit as the man running the subway.
你和地铁里的那个人穿着同样的衣服。
If someone said to me, you see that guy walking down the street with the khaki shorts and the Kings of Leon t-shirt?
如果有人对我说，你看到那个穿着卡其色短裤和莱昂国王 T 恤走在街上的人了吗？
You know anything about that guy?
你知道那个人的事吗？
I'd be like, yeah, I'll tell you a few things about that guy.
我会说，是的，我会告诉你一些关于那个人的事情。
I know that he could use somebody.
我知道他可以利用某人。
There was only one other person on the bus.
公共汽车上只有一个人。
And it was this guy.
就是这个人。
And he looked up at me and he goes, I'm taking the subway.
他抬头看着我，然后说道，我要坐地铁。
You can follow me.
你可以跟着我。
So now I'm in action film.
所以现在我在拍动作片。
I'm like, got it.
我想，明白了。
I sit down, and I'm following this guy.
我坐下来，跟着这个人。
And then we go a few stops and this lady walks on to the bus.
然后我们走了几站，这位女士走上了公共汽车。
And she was a pretty lady.
她是一位漂亮的女士。
And she wasn't just bus pretty.
她不仅仅是公交车上的美女。
She was pretty for the world.
对于这个世界来说，她很漂亮。
And I did this thing that I sometimes do when I see a pretty lady, which is I looked at her long enough to realize that she was pretty, and then I looked at the floor.
我做了这件事，当我看到一位漂亮女士时，我有时会这样做，那就是我看着她足够长的时间，意识到她很漂亮，然后我看着地板。
And then I never looked up again.
然后我就再也没有抬头看过。
That's my move.
这就是我的举动。
And so I'm looking at the floor.
所以我看着地板。
And then I'm looking up at this guy I'm about to follow, 'cause he's like my ride.
然后我抬头看着我即将跟随的那个人，因为他就像我的座驾。
But then he was staring at the lady.
但随后他就盯着那位女士。
And you know, I know we're all guilty of staring at some point or another.
你知道，我知道我们都会因盯着某个时刻或另一个时刻而感到内疚。
I think we've all done it.
我想我们都已经做到了。
But I think that there's an etiquette to staring.
但我认为凝视是有礼仪的。
I think that you can use your peripheral position if you want to look at somebody.
我认为如果你想看某人，你可以利用你的外围位置。
You can stare at someone like you're inside of a spooky painting in Scooby-Doo where your face doesn't move, but then your eyes pan side to side like you're living in the walls of a mansion.
你可以盯着某人，就像你在《史酷比》中的一幅怪异画作中，你的脸一动不动，但随后你的眼睛会左右移动，就像你住在豪宅的墙壁里一样。
But this guy was not doing the spooky painting.
但这家伙并不是在画怪异的画。
He was just full on staring at this lady, like a gargoyle.
他只是像石像鬼一样，全神贯注地盯着这位女士。
And I was so mad.
我很生气。
I was just like, we all want to stare at the lady.
我当时想，我们都想盯着那位女士看。
But we don't, because we are decent people.
但我们不这样做，因为我们是正派的人。
We have decided as a group that we are not going to stare at the pretty lady.
我们集体决定不盯着这位漂亮女士看。
But that's the difference between decent people and creepy people.
但这就是正派人和令人毛骨悚然的人之间的区别。
Creepy people do the things that decent people want to do but have decided are probably not a great idea.
令人毛骨悚然的人做正派人想做但认为可能不是一个好主意的事情。
Decent people are like, I would like to stare at that pretty lady, but it will make her feel uncomfortable.
正派的人会说，我愿意盯着那位漂亮女士看，但这会让她感到不舒服。
Creepy people are like, look.
令人毛骨悚然的人就像，看。
I'm going for it.
我要去争取。
We go a few more stops and the creepy guy stands up, looks at me, and says, let's go.
我们又走了几站，那个令人毛骨悚然的家伙站起来，看着我，说，我们走吧。
I was like, oh great.
我当时想，哦，太棒了。
Now she thinks I'm with you.
现在她认为我和你在一起。
This pretty lady and I have built up a rapport where we have an understanding that she is pretty and I am decent.
这位漂亮的女士和我建立了融洽的关系，我们都知道她很漂亮，而我很正派。
And when I am in her presence, I stare at the floor.
当我在她面前时，我盯着地板。
And now she thinks I am with you, a creepy man?
现在她认为我和你在一起，一个令人毛骨悚然的男人？
And so as I walk by this woman, I try to convey all of this with my eyes.
所以当我走过这个女人时，我试图用我的眼睛传达这一切。
Like, I am not with this guy.
就像，我不和这个人在一起。
And that look takes so long to convey that the look itself becomes creepy.
而且这种表情需要很长时间才能传达出来，以至于这种表情本身就变得令人毛骨悚然。
And I know it, and so I say, sorry, which were the first words uttered in a conversation we were not having.
我知道这一点，所以我说，对不起，这是我们没有进行的谈话中说的第一句话。
As this woman understands her bus ride, she walked onto a bus, a creepy man stared at her for 10 minutes and then left the bus.
当这名女子了解了自己乘坐公交车的情况后，她走进一辆公交车，一名令人毛骨悚然的男子盯着她看了10分钟，然后离开了公交车。
And then another man, who she did not know was on the bus, approached her and apologized, which means what he did is worse.
然后公交车上另一个她不认识的男人走近她并向她道歉，这意味着他所做的事情更糟糕。
And I'm so frustrated about the unfairness of the situation that when I get to the dinner with my wife, I'm explaining this whole thing in detail.
我对这种不公平的情况感到非常沮丧，以至于当我和妻子共进晚餐时，我正在详细解释整件事。
And I'm like, it's not fair because I am not creepy.
我想，这不公平，因为我并不令人毛骨悚然。
I am decent.
我很正派。
And my wife says, wait.
我妻子说，等等。
Is the moral of the story that you want credit for just not being creepy?
你希望这个故事的寓意只是不令人毛骨悚然吗？
And I was like, exactly.
我当时想，正是如此。
Because I think that decent people are undervalued.
因为我认为正派的人被低估了。
I think that decent people should be treated like firemen.
我认为正派的人应该像消防员一样受到对待。
We should get a day and a calendar.
我们应该得到一天和日历。
One month there'd just be a guy carrying in porch furniture for the winter.
有一个月，就会有一个人搬进门廊家具过冬。
One month there'd just be a guy grilling a veggie burger with an apron that says "Meatless in Seattle." My month, it'd just be me checking out at a pharmacy with tampons and a yogurt.
某个月，就会有一个人在烤素食汉堡，围裙上写着“西雅图无肉”。我这个月，就只是我带着卫生棉条和酸奶去药店结帐。
And my wife says, but you do get credit.
我妻子说，但你确实得到了荣誉。
I married you.
我嫁给了你。
Aww.
哇。
Mike Birbiglia And I said, I want more than that.
迈克·比尔比利亚 我说，我想要的不止这些。
Mike Birbiglia.
迈克·比尔比利亚。
His comedy special, My Girlfriend's Boyfriend , is on Netflix.
他的喜剧特辑《我女朋友的男朋友》正在 Netflix 上播出。
Coming up, proving that you're a good guy to somebody who never, ever, ever will know what you did.
来吧，向那些永远、永远、永远不会知道你做了什么的人证明你是一个好人。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, good guys.
今天我们的节目，大家好。
Stories of people trying to be good guys and not always sure if they're succeeding.
人们试图成为好人但并不总是确定自己是否成功的故事。
We've arrived at Act Three of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第三幕了。
Act Three, "No Man Left Behind." We now turn to a kind of classic story of a buddy who's trying to do a solid for another guy from Julia DeWitt.
第三幕，“没有一个人掉队”。现在我们来看一个经典故事，讲的是一个朋友试图为朱莉娅·德威特的另一个人做点实事。
Julia Dewitt Out in the desert scrub lands of northern South Africa, in a place called the Karoo, there's nothing, no trees, no water, for as far as you can see.
朱莉娅·德威特 (Julia Dewitt) 在南非北部的沙漠灌木丛中，有一个叫卡鲁的地方，放眼望去，什么都没有，没有树木，没有水。
This is Don Shirley.
这是唐·雪莉。
Why he knows this place so well will become clear in a minute.
为什么他对这个地方这么了解，一会儿就会明白。
See a little rise.
见小幅上涨。
And when you get to the little hill, there's actually a big hollow where the ground's collapsed.
当你到达小山时，实际上有一个大洼地，地面塌陷了。
At the bottom of a very steep slope, you actually have a sheer face in front of you.
在一个非常陡峭的斜坡底部，你面前实际上有一张纯粹的脸。
And at the bottom of this sheer face is a puddle.
在这张纯粹的脸的底部是一个水坑。
And so you think, oh, this is just a little puddle that doesn't go anywhere.
所以你会想，哦，这只是一个小水坑，不会去任何地方。
But when you take the duckweed off the top, it's actually clear water.
但当你把上面的浮萍去掉时，它实际上是清澈的水。
Which means that this isn't just standing water.
这意味着这不仅仅是死水。
This water is filtering down to somewhere.
这些水正在过滤到某个地方。
And if you go into this puddle, there's a small slot that goes through, which is just wide enough for a man's body to go through.
如果你进入这个水坑，就会有一个小槽穿过，这个槽的宽度只够一个人的身体通过。
After 20 foot, you're now starting to enter the cave.
20 英尺后，您现在开始进入洞穴。
And gradually the cave gets wider.
渐渐地，山洞变得越来越宽。
Down below you is 900 feet of water.
您下方是 900 英尺深的水。
This is Bushman's Cave.
这就是布须曼人的洞穴。
It's a huge cave.
这是一个巨大的洞穴。
Now, if you take the Eiffel Tower and stand it on the floor of the Bushman's Cave, the top of the tower would be just about coming out of the water.
现在，如果你把埃菲尔铁塔立在布须曼人洞穴的地板上，塔顶就快要露出水面了。
The cave is almost 1,000 feet deep and two and a half football fields wide.
该洞穴近 1,000 英尺深，两个半足球场宽。
The main thing that lives in the pitch darkness is a species of strange little blind white cave shrimp.
生活在漆黑之中的主要生物是一种奇怪的小盲白洞虾。
Otherwise, the cave is dark, deep, and dead.
否则的话，这个山洞又黑又深，死气沉沉。
This cave is a dangerous place for humans.
这个洞穴对人类来说是一个危险的地方。
And it's basically totally inaccessible to almost all of us.
而且我们几乎所有人基本上都无法接触到它。
But for deep water divers, this is heaven.
但对于深水潜水员来说，这里就是天堂。
There are only a very few divers on the planet that have ever been anywhere near the bottom of this cave.
地球上只有极少数潜水员曾经到过这个洞穴底部附近的任何地方。
And only about a dozen recreational divers ever dive to these kinds of depths, period.
只有大约十几名休闲潜水员曾潜入过这种深度。
Don is one of these extreme divers.
唐就是这些极限潜水员之一。
He met another of these deep water divers, a guy named Dave Shaw, back in 2002.
2002 年，他遇到了另一位深水潜水员，名叫戴夫·肖 (Dave Shaw)。
They were immediately friends, and a couple of years later, Don took Dave to dive Bushman's.
他们立即成了朋友，几年后，唐带戴夫去布须曼潜水。
On dive day, they got to the puddle and Dave went in first.
潜水那天，他们到达水坑，戴夫第一个进去。
Dave swam down through the slot, and the cave opened up below him.
戴夫游过狭缝，洞穴在他下面打开了。
While he was going down, he was doing something called laying a shot line.
当他下降时，他正在做一种叫做铺设投篮线的事情。
Basically, he was leaving a trail of rope in the total darkness.
基本上，他在完全的黑暗中留下了一条绳子的痕迹。
This is the only way he knew how to get out of the cave.
这是他知道如何离开山洞的唯一方法。
You're in pitch black, absolute pitch black.
你身处一片漆黑，绝对的漆黑。
So if you shine a light in any direction, it will disappear.
因此，如果你向任何方向照射光，它就会消失。
The darkness will eat the light.
黑暗将会吞噬光明。
Basically, being 900 foot in a cave, you might as well be on the moon.
基本上，在 900 英尺高的洞穴里，你就像在月球上一样。
In fact, I think more people have walked on the moon than have actually been to those sort of depths in caves.
事实上，我认为在月球上行走的人比真正去过洞穴深处的人还要多。
This sounds unbelievable, but it's true.
这听起来令人难以置信，但却是事实。
More people have been on the moon than have been to the depths that these guys have.
登上月球的人比深入月球深处的人还多。
Now Dave was exploring on the bare floor of the cavern.
现在戴夫正在洞穴的光秃秃的地板上探索。
There's nothing to see but his light in the black and the white rope that he dragged with him.
除了他在黑色中的光芒和他随身拖着的白色绳子之外，什么也看不见。
Then suddenly--
然后突然——
His torch caught the remains of Deon Dreyer.
他的火炬照亮了德翁·德雷尔的遗体。
No one knows exactly what happened to Deon Dreyer.
没有人确切知道德翁·德雷尔发生了什么事。
But a decade earlier, Deon was diving with a team in Bushman's.
但十年前，德翁正在布须曼的一个团队中潜水。
When they stopped to take a headcount, Deon was gone.
当他们停下来清点人数时，德恩已经走了。
People had been looking for his body ever since.
从那时起人们就一直在寻找他的尸体。
He was still in his wetsuit, still wearing his cylinders-- a collection of bones inside a wetsuit.
他还穿着潜水服，还戴着气瓶——潜水服里藏着一堆骨头。
And at the time, he tried to move the body, but the body was stuck in the silt.
而当时，他试图移动尸体，但尸体却陷在了淤泥中。
He was panting and he said, I shouldn't work hard at this depth.
他气喘吁吁地说，我不应该在这么深的地方努力工作。
It wasn't in the plan, so I needed to leave the body there.
这不在计划之内，所以我需要把尸体留在那里。
Deon was 20 when he was lost in Bushman's.
Deon 在布须曼人家迷路时才 20 岁。
Dave didn't take finding Deon lightly.
戴夫并没有掉以轻心地寻找迪恩。
He thought of it more of a mission to actually-- his task to bring this body back.
他认为这更像是一个使命——他的任务是把这具身体带回来。
So when Dave came up, he told Don he was going to come back and get Deon's body.
因此，当戴夫出现时，他告诉唐他要回来取走迪恩的尸体。
He phoned up Deon's parents and said, I'm going to retrieve your son's body.
他打电话给迪恩的父母说，我要去取回你儿子的尸体。
The thing is that a dive like this is a major operation.
问题是，像这样的潜水是一项重大手术。
It took them months to plan.
他们花了几个月的时间来计划。
You're at 900 foot under the water.
您位于水下 900 英尺处。
There's a lot of risk involved in that.
这其中存在很大的风险。
Every 33 foot that you go down effectively doubles the risk.
每下降 33 英尺，风险就会增加一倍。
When you're down at those depths, anything that goes wrong is an issue.
当你陷入这样的深度时，任何出错的事情都会成为问题。
Combining extreme depths with the hard work that Dave had to do to get Deon's body into a body bag came with a lot of risk.
将迪恩的尸体放入裹尸袋的极端深度与戴夫必须做的艰苦工作相结合，带来了很大的风险。
At depth, too much nitrogen is kind of like a narcotic.
在深处，过多的氮气有点像麻醉剂。
Basically it feels suddenly like you drank five martinis in a row.
基本上感觉突然就像你连续喝了五杯马提尼酒。
Too much helium can give you twitching fits.
太多的氦气会让你抽搐。
If you breathe too heavily, like Dave might have to while he's moving around Deon's body-- you pass out.
如果你呼吸太重，就像戴夫在迪恩的身体周围移动时可能不得不做的那样——你就会昏倒。
And then of course, there's the bends.
当然，还有弯道。
If you come up too quickly, it's like opening a Coke bottle once you've shook it up and it fizzes.
如果你上来得太快，就像打开可乐瓶一样，一旦你摇晃它，它就会发出嘶嘶声。
And then you would have problems with bubbles in your blood.
然后你的血液中就会出现气泡的问题。
To prevent the bends, Dave would take several hours to come up to the surface.
为了防止弯曲，戴夫需要几个小时才能浮出水面。
So they recruited a team of support divers that would go into the water at intervals to check on Dave at various depths while he came up.
因此，他们招募了一支支持潜水员团队，他们会每隔一段时间就进入水中，在戴夫上来时在不同深度检查他的情况。
And the rule was no one will go deeper than the depth where we actually plan for them to be.
规则是没有人会比我们实际计划的深度更深。
Don would go the deepest.
唐会走得最深。
Don Shirley But as far as Dave and I were concerned, basically what we said is if Dave has a problem, he would signal me.
Don Shirley 但就 Dave 和我而言，基本上我们所说的是，如果 Dave 有问题，他会向我发出信号。
And in caving, when you flash a light, you wave a light around, that's a distress signal.
在洞穴探险中，当你闪光时，你会向四周挥动灯光，这是求救信号。
We got to the day that we were actually planning to do the main dive.
到了我们真正计划进行主要潜水的那一天。
And we went down early in the morning.
我们一早就下山了。
It was still dark.
天还黑着。
The sun was not quite up yet.
太阳还没有完全升起。
And at 6:15, Dave went under the water.
6点15分，戴夫沉入水下。
I followed 14 minutes later.
14分钟后我跟了上去。
Don followed the shot line down through the slot and into the cave.
唐沿着射击线穿过狭缝进入洞穴。
So whilst I was going down, falling through this black space, I was expecting to see some rising bubbles as I was going down.
因此，当我下降，穿过这个黑色空间时，我期望在下降时看到一些上升的气泡。
Also, I would see Dave's light where he was coming back.
而且，我会在戴夫回来的地方看到他的光。
When I was going down, I didn't actually see any bubbles coming back.
当我下降时，我实际上没有看到任何气泡回来。
What I did see in the area where I thought he would actually be, I did see a light.
我在我认为他实际上所在的区域确实看到了，我确实看到了光。
It was one light, a solid light just shining.
那是一盏灯，一盏闪亮的固体灯。
But the light wasn't moving.
但光没有移动。
Don Shirley Something's not quite right.
唐·雪莉：有些事情不太对劲。
And he's spending longer doing something.
他花更长的时间做某事。
And then I knew that I would probably be going down to the bottom.
然后我就知道我可能会跌入谷底。
Don dove past 800 feet, deeper than he had ever been before.
唐潜入了 800 英尺，比以前更深。
Now I went past my target depth.
现在我已经超出了目标深度。
But the problem was, as I got to 833 foot, I actually had my own personal problems go on then.
但问题是，当我到达 833 英尺时，我实际上遇到了自己的个人问题。
Don Shirley My re-breather controller actually imploded.
唐·雪莉 我的再呼吸控制器实际上爆炸了。
This just means a piece of his breathing apparatus broke.
这只是意味着他的呼吸器有一块坏了。
Don trained constantly for moments like this.
唐为了这样的时刻不断训练。
So he knew exactly what to do.
所以他清楚地知道该怎么做。
He would just add oxygen to his gas mixture manually.
他只需手动向气体混合物中添加氧气即可。
But at that sort of depth, any oxygen that you add makes a hell of a difference.
但在那样的深度，你添加的任何氧气都会产生巨大的变化。
And I pushed my oxygen pressure much too high inadvertently.
我无意中将氧气压力推得太高了。
Now that's very unhealthy at that depth-- very unhealthy.
在那个深度，这是非常不健康的——非常不健康。
And I was liable to actually pass out very quickly.
我很可能很快就昏倒了。
Don knew then that this was it.
唐当时就知道就是这样了。
It was the end of the line.
已经到了终点。
He had to turn around and go back.
他只得转身回去。
The surface is not somewhere that you can actually go to solve a problem.
表面并不是你可以真正去解决问题的地方。
When you have a problem, you have to solve that problem there where you are.
当你遇到问题时，你必须在你所在的地方解决该问题。
And if you don't solve that problem, you don't come back.
如果你不解决这个问题，你就不会回来。
You have to put the brakes on, as it were, at that point.
在那一点上，你必须踩刹车。
And I was thinking, OK, Dave might come back.
我在想，好吧，戴夫可能会回来。
He's either dead or he's working his way back.
他要么死了，要么正在努力回来。
But all I could deal with was what was in front of me.
但我能处理的只是眼前的事情。
Don knew that he now had over 10 hours in the water ahead of him.
唐知道他现在还有 10 多个小时待在水里。
Don slowly ascended up to the roof of the cave.
唐慢慢地登上了洞顶。
At this point, he started to pass out.
此时，他开始昏倒。
And then he got a helium bubble in his ear.
然后他的耳朵里进了一个氦气泡。
And that made me lose balance completely.
这让我完全失去了平衡。
I'm over this extreme depth of water.
我已经越过这么深的水了。
You then have absolutely no sense of up, down, sideways, or anything.
然后你就完全没有向上、向下、横向或任何东西的感觉。
And I didn't really have any sense of really where I was.
我真的不知道自己到底在哪里。
Don lost grip on the shot line.
唐失去了对投篮线的控制。
And as he was passing out, reviving again, and passing out, he started swimming in these little circles, spinning around, looking for the line.
当他昏倒、再次苏醒、再昏倒时，他开始在这些小圆圈中游泳，旋转，寻找线条。
Remember, this line is the only way Don knows how to get out of the cave.
请记住，这条线是唐知道如何离开洞穴的唯一方法。
And I'm in this void, the black.
而我就在这虚空之中，黑色之中。
I have an extremely bright light in my hand.
我手里有一盏极其明亮的灯。
And where the light was going into the black, I was seeing black.
当光线进入黑色时，我看到的是黑色。
And where the light was hitting the roof, I was seeing light, white.
在光线照射到屋顶的地方，我看到了白色的光。
And then I'd keep spinning around like that.
然后我就这样一直转下去。
So I was seeing black, white, black, white, black, white.
所以我看到的是黑，白，黑，白，黑，白。
And then I caught the line, the white line, in my torch.
然后我用手电筒抓住了那条线，那条白线。
And the next time I spun round, I grabbed hold of the line.
当我再次转身时，我抓住了绳子。
The trouble was now I had vertigo and that makes you vomit.
现在的问题是我感到眩晕，这会让你呕吐。
So now I was vomiting under water as well.
所以现在我也在水下呕吐。
Vomiting in between breaths, effectively.
在两次呼吸之间有效地呕吐。
As time went on, I couldn't breathe anymore.
随着时间的流逝，我已经无法呼吸了。
Don eventually stabilized himself and he started his ascent again towards the surface.
唐最终稳定住了自己，并开始再次向地面上升。
He met a support diver, and using a waterproof pencil and one of these slates the divers use to communicate underwater, Don wrote him a message.
他遇到了一名支持潜水员，唐用一支防水铅笔和潜水员用来在水下交流的石板给他写了一条信息。
I said, I'm OK and Dave's not coming back.
我说，我很好，戴夫不会回来了。
But still in my mind, I had a hope that he would.
但在我心里，我仍然希望他会这么做。
From that point on, the guys had a task, which was to support me.
从那时起，这些人就有了一个任务，那就是支持我。
For hours, the team up above waited to see if he would make it out alive.
上面的团队等待了几个小时，看看他是否能活着出来。
His only job was to breathe.
他唯一的工作就是呼吸。
Dave's light down below had disappeared.
下面戴夫的光已经消失了。
If you see the videos of me coming up, you'd think this guy's half dead.
如果你看到我的视频，你会认为这家伙已经半死不活了。
You know, it had been just over 12 hours in the water.
要知道，在水里才过了12个多小时。
I couldn't actually really do much for myself other than breathe.
除了呼吸之外，我实际上不能为自己做太多事情。
My head was like a marshmallow.
我的头就像棉花糖一样。
Don was put into a decompression chamber and then taken in the morning for more treatment at a hospital in Johannesburg.
唐被送入减压室，并于早上被送往约翰内斯堡的一家医院接受进一步治疗。
Dave did not come up that night.
那天晚上戴夫没有出现。
Dave was dead.
戴夫死了。
And then a week later, Don got some news.
一周后，唐得到了一些消息。
I actually was told that Dave's body had come up.
事实上我被告知戴夫的尸体已经出现了。
During that week, there'd been lots of speculation as to what had happened.
那一周，人们对发生的事情有很多猜测。
Dave was carrying a camera on his head.
戴夫头上顶着一台相机。
In retrieving the camera, then we could piece together really what happened.
在取回相机后，我们就可以拼凑出到底发生了什么。
As the camera rolls, you see Dave trying to get Deon's body into a body bag.
随着镜头的转动，你看到戴夫试图把迪恩的尸体装进裹尸袋。
One of his lights had actually got tangled up in the line and smashed.
他的一盏灯实际上被电线缠住并被砸碎了。
So now, bearing in mind you're in the pitch black, his main light had actually been broken.
所以现在，考虑到你身处一片漆黑，他的主灯实际上已经坏了。
So he couldn't really see so well.
所以他真的看不太清楚。
Then Dave also gets tangled.
然后戴夫也陷入了困境。
He pulls away, but now he's tied to Deon's body.
他挣脱开来，但现在他被绑在了 Deon 的身上。
And you could see that he was working trying to get himself out of this line.
你可以看到他正在努力让自己摆脱困境。
He was cutting with the scissors.
他正在用剪刀剪东西。
But his scissors weren't even getting anywhere near the line.
但他的剪刀根本没有靠近那条线。
Listening to the video, you can hear Dave's breathing start to get shallower and shallower as he starts working harder and harder.
听视频，你可以听到戴夫的呼吸开始变得越来越浅，因为他开始越来越努力地工作。
Dave passed out from too much carbon dioxide.
戴夫因吸入过多二氧化碳而昏倒。
You know, he worked right up, right up to the very last breath that he ever took trying to get out.
你知道，他一直在努力工作，直到他试图逃脱的最后一口气。
And then the camera just carries on recording until the batteries run out.
然后相机继续录制，直到电池耗尽。
There's barely a day goes by where I don't think of Dave.
我几乎每天都会想起戴夫。
And really, there are a lot of times I turn round-- I do a fantastic dive and I just want to say, did you see that?
真的，有很多次我转身——我做了一次很棒的潜水，我只想说，你看到了吗？
And Dave very much did die nobly doing what he did.
戴夫确实以他所做的事情而光荣地死去。
He did everything that he should do.
他做了他应该做的一切。
And he died, as they'd say in the military, with his boots on.
正如他们在军队中所说的那样，他死时还穿着靴子。
When Dave's body had come up, hanging underneath Dave's body, cocooned in the line that Dave originally had laid, was Deon Dreyer's body.
当戴夫的尸体浮上来时，悬挂在戴夫身体下方、包裹在戴夫最初布下的线中的，就是德昂·德雷尔的尸体。
So Dave actually achieved what he wanted to do.
所以戴夫实际上实现了他想做的事情。
This story came from Julia DeWitt.
这个故事来自朱莉娅·德威特。
It was first broadcast on the public radio show Snap Judgment .
它首先在公共广播节目“Snap Judgement”上播出。
If you want to hear more stories like that one, Snap Judgment is on many public radio stations.
如果您想听更多类似的故事，许多公共广播电台都会播放《快速判断》。
And it's also a podcast, which you can find at snapjudgment.org or the iTunes store or wherever it is that you get your podcasts.
它也是一个播客，您可以在 snapjudgment.org 或 iTunes 商店或任何可以获取播客的地方找到它。
Act Four, "The Test." So all this hour, we've been hearing about guys trying to be good guys and being tested and trying to do the right thing.
第四幕“测试”。所以这一个小时以来，我们一直听到有人试图成为好人，接受考验，并试图做正确的事情。
But of course, sometimes that is really hard.
但当然，有时这真的很难。
Sometimes you're not up to it.
有时你无法胜任。
You look around at your life and you realize things are not exactly right, and it's not clear how to fix them and how to be a good guy.
你环顾自己的生活，发现事情并不完全正确，并且不清楚如何解决它们以及如何成为一个好人。
And so you just take a step forward on whatever path appears right then in front of you, whatever that path is.
所以你只要在你面前出现的任何道路上向前迈出一步，无论那条道路是什么。
I was hired to interview men and women in the state of Utah who receive Medicaid support for treatment of mental illnesses generally diagnosed as schizophrenia.
我受雇采访犹他州的男性和女性，他们接受医疗补助支持来治疗通常被诊断为精神分裂症的精神疾病。
That's Scott Carrier, who took that job after working on and off as a radio reporter out of Salt Lake City.
这就是斯科特·卡里尔（Scott Carrier），他在盐湖城断断续续地担任过电台记者后接受了这份工作。
He was hired for the interviewing job because the director of this research project heard some of Scott's radio stories and thought he was a good interviewer, somebody who knew how to listen.
他受聘担任采访工作是因为该研究项目的主管听到了斯科特的一些广播故事，并认为他是一位优秀的采访者，是一个懂得如何倾听的人。
The researchers taught Scott how to administer this test, which measured mental health.
研究人员教斯科特如何进行这项测量心理健康的测试。
It was 100 questions, each of which was scored on a scale of one to seven.
共有 100 个问题，每个问题的评分范围为 1 到 7。
Took an hour to give the test.
花了一个小时进行测试。
Scott was paid $30 for each test he gave.
斯科特每次测试都会得到 30 美元的报酬。
The people he gave the test to got $5.
他接受测试的人得到了 5 美元。
I had little understanding of schizophrenia before I began, and I have little more understanding now.
在开始之前我对精神分裂症知之甚少，现在我也没有更多的了解。
I took the job because I had no other.
我接受这份工作是因为我没有其他工作。
I took the job because I'd just quit my steady job, my professional job, after realizing that what I wanted more than anything was to put my boss on the floor and stand on his throat and watch him gag.
我之所以接受这份工作，是因为我刚刚辞掉了稳定的工作、专业的工作，因为我意识到我最想要的就是把我的老板按倒在地，站在他的喉咙上，看着他作呕。
Then my wife moved out, took the kids and everything.
然后我妻子搬了出去，带着孩子和一切。
She said, I've thought about it, and I really think it's the best thing for me at this time in my life.
她说，我想过了，我真的觉得这对我来说是人生中这个时候最好的事情。
And so I took the job interviewing schizophrenics because it was offered to me and because it was all there seemed to be.
所以我接受了采访精神分裂症患者的工作，因为这是给我的，因为这似乎就是一切。
And it seemed somehow predestined, a karmic response that could not be avoided.
这似乎是命中注定的，是无法避免的业力反应。
It would only be temporary, something to get through the summer.
这只是暂时的，只是为了度过夏天。
And I was told that they needed someone willing to drive around the state through the small towns, searching out individuals who are often transient and prone to hiding.
有人告诉我，他们需要有人愿意开车穿过小镇，寻找那些经常短暂流动且容易躲藏的人。
I like to drive.
我喜欢开车。
I like to travel.
我喜欢旅行。
And I like the idea of pursuit.
我喜欢追求的想法。
So I took the job, and did the job, and my life will never be the same.
所以我接受了这份工作，完成了这份工作，我的生活将永远不一样。
The patient is 21 years old and has lived with his parents since his discharge from the Army.
患者今年 21 岁，退伍后一直与父母住在一起。
He has no friends, no recreational activities, and no social life.
他没有朋友，没有娱乐活动，也没有社交生活。
He spends his time writing and reading, but these activities do not give him any pleasure.
他把时间花在写作和阅读上，但这些活动并没有给他带来任何乐趣。
He has lost weight, has general anxiety and loss of libido, and occasional feelings of unreality.
他体重减轻，普遍焦虑、性欲减退，偶尔还会有不真实的感觉。
He is worried about his unpredictable behavior, for example, getting down on all fours and chewing the grass because he was thinking what it would be like to be a cow.
他担心自己不可预测的行为，例如，因为他在想成为一头牛会是什么样子，所以四肢趴下嚼草。
The patient is 25 years old and believes that she is the devil and therefore responsible for all the evil in the world.
患者今年 25 岁，相信自己是魔鬼，因此应对世界上所有的邪恶负责。
She's not been out of her house for seven days, and only comes down from her room for meals.
她已经7天没有出过家门了，只是吃饭的时候才从房间下来。
A few days ago, her mother walked into her room and found her crying.
几天前，她妈妈走进她的房间，发现她在哭。
She asked her mother what was the most painful punishment that one human being could inflict upon another.
她问母亲，一个人可以对另一个人施加的最痛苦的惩罚是什么。
The mother tried to get the reason for this question and her daughter mumbled something about the devil having to be punished for the benefit of humanity, something about having to die for his sins.
母亲试图弄清楚这个问题的原因，她的女儿咕哝着一些关于魔鬼必须为了人类的利益而受到惩罚的事情，一些关于必须为他的罪而死的事情。
When the mother asked her if she still thought she was the devil, she answered, let's not get into that again.
当母亲问她是否还认为自己是魔鬼时，她回答说，我们不要再讨论这个问题了。
It only upsets you and you don't believe me anyway, even when the evidence is all around you, plain for you to see.
这只会让你心烦意乱，而且你也不相信我，即使证据就在你身边，你也看得一清二楚。
The people I interview are all so sad, so lonely with such thin souls, like ghosts and demons have invaded their hearts and are sucking their souls dry.
我采访的人都是那么悲伤，那么孤独，灵魂那么薄弱，就像鬼魂恶魔侵入了他们的内心，正在吸干他们的灵魂。
A person's soul should be like an ocean.
人的灵魂应该像海洋一样。
But a schizophrenic's soul is like a pool of rain in a parking lot.
但精神分裂症患者的灵魂就像停车场里的一池雨。
They suffer and they are completely alone in their suffering, and there's nothing I can do, nothing anyone can do to bring them back.
他们受苦受难，而他们完全孤独地受苦，我无能为力，任何人也无能为力让他们回来。
I come home at night and cry.
晚上我回家哭。
I sob like a three-year-old.
我像个三岁孩子一样抽泣。
Today, halfway through an interview with a man in Tooele, he says, I have a crystal in my pouch.
今天，在图埃勒采访一名男子时，他说，我的袋子里有一块水晶。
Do you want to see it?
你想看吗？
I say OK and he takes it out, a normal crystal the size of a large paper clip.
我说“好吧”，他把它拿出来，这是一个大回形针大小的普通水晶。
And he says, I can look through this, and it will tell me whether you're a good person or a bad person.
他说，我可以看一下这个，它会告诉我你是好人还是坏人。
What do you want me to do?
你想让我做什么？
Do you want me to look through it or not?
你要我看还是不看？
My first thought is to say, do you want to go on with the interview?
我的第一个想法是，你想继续采访吗？
Maybe when we're done, you can look through the crystal.
也许当我们完成后，你可以透过水晶看看。
But then I realize that he's really asking me to take his test, just like I'm asking him to take mine.
但后来我意识到他实际上是在要求我参加他的考试，就像我要求他参加我的考试一样。
I come into his house.
我走进他的房子。
I ask him very personal questions, and I expect him to answer honestly.
我问他非常私人的问题，我希望他诚实地回答。
And why should he?
他为什么要这样做？
So I say, OK, go ahead.
所以我说，好吧，继续吧。
And he puts the crystal up to his eye, turns it clockwise and counterclockwise, back and forth, squinting, looking me up and down.
他把水晶放在眼前，顺时针、逆时针、来回转动，眯着眼睛，上下打量着我。
And he says, I can't tell for sure.
他说，我不能确定。
I'm going to have to read your mind.
我得读懂你的想法。
Here, take my hand.
来，握住我的手。
He holds out his right hand with the crystal resting in the palm.
他伸出右手，掌心托着水晶。
I take his hand, and he puts his left hand over mine and squeezes it tight and shakes it and goes into a small spasm.
我握住他的手，他将左手放在我的手上，紧紧地握着，摇晃着，然后开始轻微的痉挛。
Then he lets go and sort of sits back like he's exhausted.
然后他放开手，坐下来，好像他已经筋疲力尽了。
He asks me if I felt anything.
他问我是否感觉到了什么。
And I say, maybe a little.
我说，也许有一点。
And he says, I sent you a message.
他说，我给你发了一条消息。
I put it in your mind.
我把它记在你心里了。
I told you what is wrong with me.
我告诉过你我出了什么问题。
I'm not supposed to figure out what's wrong with these people.
我不应该弄清楚这些人出了什么问题。
I'm just supposed to ask the questions and score the answers from one to seven.
我只需要提出问题并给答案打分（从一到七）。
This is partly because I'm not a doctor, and might get something going that I wouldn't know how to contain.
部分原因是我不是医生，可能会发生一些我不知道如何控制的事情。
But it's mainly because my supervisors want clean data.
但这主要是因为我的主管想要干净的数据。
They want all the people asking the questions to be doing it in the same way.
他们希望所有提出问题的人都以同样的方式这样做。
I'm not supposed to get emotional.
我不应该情绪化。
I'm not supposed to let the patient get emotional.
我不应该让病人情绪激动。
The therapy part of the county mental health system is in another department.
县精神卫生系统的治疗部分在另一个部门。
I wouldn't even know what number to call.
我什至不知道该拨打什么号码。
And I've been told more than once not to worry about it.
我不止一次被告知不要担心。
I should never have let him take the crystal out of his pouch.
我不应该让他从袋子里取出水晶。
I drove around all day trying to find a Navajo man.
我整天开车四处寻找纳瓦霍人。
He lives very close to the Four Corners, the cross where Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona meet.
他住的地方离“四角”很近，即犹他州、科罗拉多州、新墨西哥州和亚利桑那州交汇处的十字路口。
It's all dirt roads, a house every five miles or so.
都是土路，每隔五英里左右就有一栋房子。
No addresses, no phones.
没有地址，没有电话。
I stop at every house and knock on the door.
我每到一户人家都会停下来敲门。
But either nobody's home or nobody will answer.
但要么没人在家，要么没人会回答。
I flag down every car that passes and ask directions, and the people offer complicated directions that I follow as best as possible, sometimes driving for 20 or 30 miles.
我标记每辆经过的汽车并询问方向，人们会提供复杂的方向，我会尽可能地遵循，有时会行驶 20 或 30 英里。
But it's always the wrong place or nobody's home or there just isn't a house there at all.
但它总是在错误的地方，或者没人在家，或者那里根本没有房子。
Driving around, I think about how I have some of the same problems as the people I interview.
开车四处走动时，我思考自己是否也遇到了与我采访的人相同的问题。
I'm angry, depressed, prone to paranoid delusions, and I worry a lot.
我很生气，很沮丧，容易产生偏执妄想，而且我很担心。
Up to now, I thought these were common problems and that I was more or less able to control them.
到目前为止，我认为这些都是常见问题，而且我或多或少能够控制它们。
But now I don't know.
但现在我不知道了。
I feel like I'm just faking it.
我觉得我只是在假装。
Eventually, late in the afternoon, I find the man, or at least I think he's the man.
最终，在下午晚些时候，我找到了那个人，或者至少我认为他就是那个人。
I'm a third of the way through the test before I realize he's not the right guy.
在我意识到他不是合适的人选之前，我已经通过了三分之一的测试。
When was your last visit to a mental health clinic?
您最后一次去心理健康诊所是什么时候？
I don't go to a clinic.
我不去诊所。
When did you last see a doctor?
您上次看医生是什么时候？
I don't have a doctor.
我没有医生。
Do you blame yourself for anything you've done or not done?
你会因为自己做过或没做过的事情而责怪自己吗？
No. Have you felt more self-confident than usual?
没有。您是否感觉比平时更自信了？
No.
不。
Have you heard voices or other things that weren't there or that other people couldn't hear or seen things that weren't there?
您是否听到过不存在的声音或其他东西，或者其他人听不到或看到不存在的东西？
And he says, I think you want to talk to my son.
他说，我想你想和我儿子谈谈。
And I ask him what his son's name is, and he says, same as mine.
我问他儿子叫什么名字，他说和我的一样。
I come back the next morning and interview the son in the kitchen.
第二天早上我回来在厨房采访儿子。
They make coffee for me on a propane camp stove as the house has no electricity.
由于房子没有电，他们用丙烷野营炉为我煮咖啡。
The son is 19 years old, a good looking kid, tall, healthy.
儿子今年19岁，长得好看，身材高大，身体健康。
Says used to run cross country in high school.
说高中时曾参加过越野跑。
He seems to be fine.
他似乎没事。
But as I go through the questions, he starts to fix his eyes on mine, a direct, almost hypnotic stare straight into my head, like he's trying to pull me in and trap me.
但当我回答问题时，他开始盯着我的眼睛，一种直接、近乎催眠的目光直视着我的脑袋，就像他试图把我拉进去并困住我一样。
I try to look back, to look just as deeply into his mind.
我试着回顾过去，同样深入地观察他的内心。
But it's like looking into a cave.
但这就像在看一个山洞。
He says he hears voices, satanic voices, and that he worries a lot about his shoes, that they're not the right kind, not the kind he sees on MTV.
他说他听到了声音，恶魔的声音，他非常担心他的鞋子，因为它们不是正确的类型，不是他在 MTV 上看到的那种。
I can't tell if he's sick or if he's just trying to torture me.
我不知道他是生病了还是只是想折磨我。
And I drive away thinking I don't know anything about this disease, that I know even less than when I started.
当我开车离开时，我以为我对这种疾病一无所知，甚至比开始时还要少。
I spent two days driving around, and I made $30.
我开了两天车，赚了 30 美元。
And I feel really, really tired.
我感觉真的真的很累。
The house is dark, as all the windows have heavy curtains pulled nearly shut.
房子里很黑，所有的窗户都拉着厚重的窗帘，几乎关上了。
The curtains over the big picture window in the living room are open just a bit, and the light cuts through like a laser beam and hits the red shag carpet, throwing up small dust particles and cigarette ash.
客厅大窗户上的窗帘打开了一点，光线像激光束一样穿透，打在红色粗毛地毯上，扬起细小的灰尘颗粒和烟灰。
Two feet away from the light, near the television, is a slice of pizza lying upside down in the carpet.
距离灯光两英尺远，靠近电视的地方，有一片披萨倒放在地毯上。
I'm interviewing the woman-- a mother-- and her teenage daughter's on the phone talking to her boyfriend, or rather a series of boyfriends who call and call.
我正在采访这位女士——一位母亲——她十几岁的女儿正在打电话给她的男朋友，或者更确切地说，是一系列不断打电话的男朋友。
And all of them want her to go out right now, but her mother won't let her.
现在所有人都想让她出去，但她妈妈不让。
She's trying to answer my questions, trying to concentrate and be polite.
她试图回答我的问题，试图集中注意力并保持礼貌。
But she's mainly listening to what her daughter is saying on the phone and will suddenly switch from saying, no, no, I've been feeling fine, I haven't had a relapse in months, to screaming out, is that John?
但她主要是听女儿在电话里说的话，然后会突然从说“不，不，我感觉很好，我已经好几个月没有复发了”，变成尖叫，那是约翰吗？
I told you never to talk to him again.
我告诉过你永远不要再和他说话了。
Or, who is it?
或者说，是谁？
Is it a boy?
是男孩吗？
You can't go out.
你不能出去。
Tell him he has to come over here.
告诉他他必须来这里。
I can't stop looking at the slice of pizza on the carpet.
我无法停止看着地毯上的披萨片。
I keep looking at the slice of pizza because it's the only clue that the woman is sick.
我一直看着那片披萨，因为这是那个女人生病的唯一线索。
I mean, she has a teenage daughter and a dirty house.
我的意思是，她有一个十几岁的女儿和一间肮脏的房子。
And maybe she shouldn't try to wear makeup to bed.
也许她不应该尝试化妆睡觉。
But these are not necessarily symptoms of schizophrenia.
但这些并不一定是精神分裂症的症状。
She seems to be fine, just worn out, until I get to the question have you been worrying a lot?
她看起来很好，只是疲惫不堪，直到我问这个问题，你是否一直很担心？
And she says yes, she has.
她说是的，她做到了。
She's been worrying a lot that the elders of the church-- the Mormon church-- will take her daughter away from her.
她一直非常担心教会——摩门教教会——的长老们会把她的女儿从她身边带走。
And I ask her why, and she says, because she stopped taking her medication.
我问她为什么，她说，因为她停止服药。
And I ask her why did you stop taking your medication?
我问她你为什么停止服药？
And she says that the only reason she takes it is because she told her bishop that she was visited by the Archangel Gabriel and that she'd had sex with him.
她说，她接受的唯一原因是她告诉她的主教，大天使加百列拜访了她，并且她与他发生了性关系。
And then she was also visited by the Archangel Michael and that she'd had sex with both of them at once and that they'd ravished her almost every night.
然后大天使迈克尔也拜访了她，她同时与他们两个发生了性关系，他们几乎每晚都强奸了她。
So her bishop made her go to a doctor.
所以她的主教让她去看医生。
And the doctor gave her some pills, and she took the pills, and the angels stopped coming.
医生给了她一些药，她吃了药，天使就不再来了。
The bishop and the elders had told her that if she had sex with any more angels, they'd take her daughter away.
主教和长老们告诉她，如果她和更多的天使发生性关系，他们就会把她的女儿带走。
So I ask her again why she stopped taking her medication, and she says, I'm lonely.
所以我再次问她为什么停止服药，她说，我很孤独。
I miss them.
我想念他们。
I want them to come back.
我希望他们回来。
Today in a restaurant, eating lunch between interviews, I decided to take the test.
今天在一家餐厅，面试间隙吃午餐，我决定参加考试。
I answered the questions and scored myself appropriately.
我回答了问题并给自己打了适当的分。
And at some point, I realized I wasn't doing so well.
在某些时候，我意识到我做得不太好。
I decided not to even add up the points, because then I'd be left with a score and I'd never forget it.
我决定不把分数加起来，因为那样我就会得到一个分数，而且我永远不会忘记它。
If I were to write a report on myself, it would sound something like this.
如果我要写一份关于自己的报告，听起来会是这样的。
The patient is 36 years old and lives alone since his wife left him three weeks ago.
患者今年 36 岁，自从三周前妻子离开他以来，他一直独自生活。
She took the kids and all the silverware, except for a large knife and a bowl and a coffee cup.
她拿走了孩子们和所有的银器，除了一把大刀、一个碗和一个咖啡杯。
The patient admits that her leaving may have had something to do with the fact that, without warning, he completely gutted the house, tore out all the walls and ceilings, all the lathe and plaster right down to the studs.
病人承认，她的离开可能与这样一个事实有关：在没有任何警告的情况下，他把房子彻底拆毁了，拆掉了所有的墙壁和天花板，所有的车床和灰泥，直到螺柱。
He says he did this in order to live like a primitive.
他说他这样做是为了像原始人一样生活。
When asked if he was successful, he says it was the first step in the right direction.
当被问及他是否成功时，他说这是朝着正确方向迈出的第一步。
The patient is a 36-year-old male who lives alone since his wife and children left him two months ago.
患者是一名36岁男性，自从两个月前妻子和孩子离开他以来，他一直独自生活。
He says there's a darkness that separates him from other people, a heavy darkness, like looking at a person from the bottom of a well.
他说有一种黑暗将他和其他人分开，一种沉重的黑暗，就像从井底看一个人。
He believes that if he could say the right words, then the darkness would go away.
他相信，如果他能说出正确的话，那么黑暗就会消失。
He says he sometimes knows the right words, but cannot say them.
他说他有时知道正确的词语，但无法说出来。
Other times, he can't even think of the words to say.
其他时候，他甚至想不出该说些什么。
The patient is 36 years old and lives alone since his wife and children left him three months ago.
患者今年 36 岁，自从三个月前妻子和孩子离开他以来，一直独自生活。
Last week, he went fishing in the San Juans and now believes that there's no better fisherman than himself.
上周，他去圣胡安钓鱼，现在他相信没有比自己更好的渔夫了。
He says, I can't tell you about it, because talking about fishing is silly, like farting and tap dancing at the same time.
他说，我不能告诉你，因为谈论钓鱼很愚蠢，就像同时放屁和踢踏舞一样。
All I can say is I walk around in the water and I know the instant the fish will jump for the fly.
我只能说，我在水里走来走去，我知道鱼儿会跳向苍蝇。
I cut open their stomachs and squeeze out the bugs in my hand, study what they eat, how it all gets digested, even the exoskeleton and wings.
我切开它们的胃，挤出手中的虫子，研究它们吃什么，如何消化它们，甚至是外骨骼和翅膀。
He says he was sick before, but now he's OK, and that it was the fly rod, just holding the rod in his hand, that cured him.
他说他以前病过，但现在好了，是飞蝇竿的作用，只要手里握着飞蝇竿，就治好了他的病。
His house is clean.
他的房子很干净。
The electricity is on.
电源已接通。
The walls have been sheet rocked and painted white.
墙壁已被板岩覆盖并漆成白色。
He says, I'll have to ask her, beg her, and maybe she'll come back.
他说，我得问她，求她，也许她会回来。
Scott Carrier.
斯科特·开利.
We first broadcast this story years ago.
我们几年前首次播出这个故事。
Scott recently has just started a new podcast.
斯科特最近刚刚开始了一个新的播客。
It's called Home of the Brave.
它被称为“勇敢者之家”。
If you've heard him on our radio show over the years, you know he is really like nobody else on the radio.
如果您多年来在我们的广播节目中听到过他的声音，您就会知道他确实与广播中的其他人不同。
He's just a complete original, an amazing writer, great interviewer in stories where he does interviews.
他是一个完整的原创者，一个出色的作家，一个在他接受采访的故事中出色的采访者。
I, and many of us in public radio are like, super fans, and so it's exciting to see him finally have his own show.
我和我们公共广播电台中的许多人都是超级粉丝，所以很高兴看到他终于有了自己的节目。
Again the name, Home of the Brave.
又是这个名字，勇敢者之家。
It's free.
它是免费的。
You can find it at homebrave.com or at the iTunes store or Stitcher, or like we say here on the show, wherever you get your podcasts.
您可以在 homebrave.com、iTunes 商店或 Stitcher 找到它，或者就像我们在节目中所说的那样，无论您在哪里获取播客。
Our program was produced today by Brian Reed and myself, with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Sarah Koenig, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Brian Reed 和我本人以及 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Sarah Koenig、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Production help from Simon Adler.
西蒙·阿德勒 (Simon Adler) 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our production manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson's our office manager.
埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的办公室经理。
Adrianne Mathiowetz runs our website.
阿德琳娜·马修韦茨 (Adrianne Mathiowetz) 负责运营我们的网站。
Music help today from Damien Graef and Rob Geddis.
今天达米安·格雷夫 (Damien Graef) 和罗布·格迪斯 (Rob Geddis) 提供音乐帮助。
Mike Birbiglia was recorded at UCB East in Manhattan and Littlefield in Brooklyn.
Mike Birbiglia 在曼哈顿的 UCB East 和布鲁克林的 Littlefield 录制。
Our website, ThisAmericanLife.org.
我们的网站 ThisAmericanLife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们计划的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, his new plastic surgery is, I don't know.
你知道，他的新整容手术是，我不知道。
It's just at that awkward phase.
正处于那个尴尬的阶段。
Where your face doesn't move, but then your eyes pan side to side.
你的脸不动，但你的眼睛从一边扫到另一边。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。