547: Cops See It Differently, Part One - This American Life

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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #547 | February 6, 2015 547: Cops See It Differently, Part One Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 547 集 | 2015 年 2 月 6 日 547：警察以不同的方式看待它，第一部分 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。

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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。

Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue Ira Glass Hey there, everybody.

序言 Ira Glass 大家好。

If you're listening on our podcast or the internet, there are words in this episode that we have un-beeped.

如果您正在收听我们的播客或互联网，则本集中的某些单词我们未发出提示音。

If you prefer a beeped version of the show, you could find that at our website, thisamericanlife.org.

如果您喜欢该节目的嘟嘟声版本，可以在我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org 上找到。

There are 9-1-1 calls where people are basically calling the cops on the cops.

9-1-1 电话基本上是人们向警察报警。

Lisa Mahon did that in September.

丽莎·马洪 (Lisa Mahon) 在九月份就这么做了。

She was on her way to the county hospital in Chicago.

她正在前往芝加哥县医院的路上。

Her mom was dying and the hospital called, saying that she'd stopped breathing and had just been put on a ventilator.

她的母亲生命垂危，医院打电话说她停止了呼吸，刚刚戴上了呼吸机。

So Lisa had her two kids in the back and her friend Jamal was up front, and she was just about to pull into the expressway near Hammond, Indiana, near where she lives, when a police officer pulled her over for not wearing a seat belt.

丽莎带着她的两个孩子坐在后面，她的朋友贾马尔坐在前面，她正要把车开进印第安纳州哈蒙德附近的高速公路，就在她住的地方附近，一名警察因没有系安全带而将她拦了下来。

Now, the strange part about all of this is when he asked me for my license and insurance, usually, the police officer gets back in the car and runs the license plates, runs the license.

现在，这一切的奇怪之处在于，当他向我索要驾照和保险时，通常，警察会回到车里，检查车牌，检查驾照。

He didn't do any of that.

他什么也没做。

He put the information in his pocket and never took it out.

他把资料放进口袋里，再也没拿出来。

What officer puts it in a pocket and not go to the police car?

哪个警察把它放在口袋里而不去警车？

And what's his manner like when he asked you for the license?

当他向你索要许可证时，他的态度如何？

Oh my god.

我的天啊。

Well, first of all, he's moving from side to side.

嗯，首先，他正在从一边移动到另一边。

His body is not still.

他的身体并没有静止。

His eyes wasn't blinking.

他的眼睛没有眨眼。

He was really acting kind of hyper.

他的表现确实有点亢奋。

He wasn't acting professional.

他的表现并不专业。

He wasn't acting like a police officer at all.

他的表现根本不像警察。

Lisa had been in law enforcement herself.

丽莎本人曾从事执法工作。

She'd been a corrections officer.

她曾是一名狱警。

Her dad taught criminal justice.

她的父亲教授刑事司法。

She's got no problem with cops at all.

她对警察一点问题都没有。

But this one was acting so weird, she says, she kept her window up.

但她说，这个人的行为太奇怪了，所以她一直把车窗开着。

The officer, Lieutenant Patrick Fucari, didn't return our calls.

这名警官帕特里克·富卡里中尉没有回复我们的电话。

According to Lisa and to a statement issued by the Hammond police, Lieutenant Fucari next asked for Jamal's ID.

根据丽莎的说法和哈蒙德警方发表的声明，富卡里中尉接下来要求贾马尔出示身份证。

Jamal was sitting in the passenger seat and, Lisa says, wearing a seat belt, so it's not clear why this was necessary.

丽莎说，贾马尔坐在乘客座位上，系着安全带，所以不清楚为什么有必要这样做。

Jamal didn't have his ID.

贾马尔没有身份证。

According to the police statement, Jamal moved his hand below where the officer could see and the officer started fearing for his own safety.

根据警方的声明，贾马尔将手移到警官可以看到的地方，警官开始担心自己的安全。

A second officer arrived.

第二名警官抵达。

The interaction got weird enough that Lisa turned to her 14-year-old in the backseat and asked him to do what people do these days in this situation.

这种互动变得很奇怪，丽莎转向后座上她 14 岁的孩子，要求他做现在人们在这种情况下所做的事情。

Jojo, get your phone out and videotape this.

乔乔，拿出你的手机，把这一切录下来。

I'm already doing it.

我已经在做了。

Ira Glass The officers asked Jamal to get out of the car.

艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 警察要求贾马尔下车。

Jamal didn't want to get out, and through the window, he asked for what he called a white shirt, a supervisor.

贾马尔不想出去，他透过窗户要了一件他所谓的白衬衫，一个主管。

Y'all got a white shirt?

你们都有白衬衫吗？

Officer Look at my shoulder, dumb ass.

警官 看看我的肩膀，笨蛋。

I got the bars.

我得到了酒吧。

"I got the bars." He is a supervisor.

“我拿到了酒吧。”他是一名主管。

From the police perspective, Jamal is not complying.

从警方的角度来看，贾马尔没有遵守规定。

Jamal starts looking for a ticket that he'd gotten that could prove who he is.

贾马尔开始寻找他得到的一张可以证明他身份的门票。

He reaches into his book bag.

他把手伸进书包。

As soon as he went inside the bag, that's when the two officers pulled the gun out.

当他一进入袋子时，两名警察就拔出了枪。

I got my kids in the car.

我让我的孩子们上车。

You're drawing your weapon.

你正在拔出你的武器。

It continues like this.

就这样继续下去。

Lisa starts to feel like these cops are not acting the way cops should.

丽莎开始觉得这些警察没有按照警察应有的方式行事。

Let's get some adults here.

我们请一些成年人来吧。

There must be somebody above these people, and she calls 9-1-1.

肯定有比这些人更高的人，她拨打了 9-1-1。

Hammond 9-1-1.

哈蒙德 9-1-1。

Lisa Mahon The police just pulled a gun on me.

丽莎·马洪 警察刚刚用枪指着我。

I'm sitting in my car.

我坐在我的车里。

And then they're asking me to open the door.

然后他们要求我开门。

I am scared.

我很害怕。

"The officer pulled a gun on me, I'm sitting in my car, they asked me to open the door, I'm scared," she says.

“警察用枪指着我，我坐在车里，他们要求我打开车门，我很害怕，”她说。

Calm down.

冷静下来。

Pulling out a gun-- are you opening-- are you getting-- are you following the officer's orders?

拔出枪——你打开了吗——你得到——你遵守警官的命令了吗？

Now they're asking me to open the door.

现在他们要我开门。

I'm scared to open the door.

我害怕开门。

Because he pulled a gun out.

因为他拔出了枪。

Dispatcher OK.

调度员好。

If he's pulling a gun out, maybe because he is in fear of his life as well.

如果他拔出枪，也许是因为他也担心自己的生命安全。

No. We don't have anything.

不，我们什么都没有。

Dispatcher Ma'am, ma'am, ma'am.

调度员女士，女士，女士。

Yes, yes.

是的，是的。

Dispatcher He cannot see in your vehicle.

调度员 他看不到您的车内情况。

You--

你——

She said the officer can't see in the vehicle.

她说警官看不到车内。

I said, what do you mean he can't see in the window?

我说，你说他看不到窗外是什么意思？

I said it's broad daylight.

我说现在是大白天啊。

All you need to do is follow the officer's orders.

您所需要做的就是听从官员的命令。

I'm scared to open the door.

我害怕开门。

Ira Glass Do you think the dispatcher understood why you were afraid?

艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 你认为调度员明白你为什么害怕吗？

She didn't care.

她不在乎。

She didn't care.

她不在乎。

She never was helpful.

她从来没有提供过帮助。

Now I'm scared for my life.

现在我为自己的生命感到害怕。

Dispatcher Why are you scared for your life?

调度员 你为什么担心自己的生命安全？

It's a police officer pulling you over for--

是一名警察把你拦下来，因为——

Are you going to-- are you going to stop screaming and listen?

你会——你会停止尖叫并倾听吗？

Were you surprised at the tone she took with you?

你对她对你的语气感到惊讶吗？

Oh, yes.

哦是的。

It was unbelievable.

这太令人难以置信了。

I don't have no help.

我没有任何帮助。

No one's going to help.

没有人会帮忙。

OK.

好的。

Number one, if you're getting pulled over by an officer for not wearing your seat belt, if you cooperate, there would be no problem.

第一，如果你因为没有系安全带而被警察拦下，如果你配合的话，就不会有问题。

You would already be at the hospital.

你已经在医院了。

The Hammond police statement on this incident runs two pages but does not mention Officer Fucari drawing his gun.

哈蒙德警方关于这一事件的声明长达两页，但没有提到富卡里警官拔枪的事情。

It does say that the officer was afraid that the passengers had a gun, though it doesn't say why this mom and her friend and two kids would make him think that.

它确实说警察担心乘客有枪，但没有说明为什么这位妈妈和她的朋友以及两个孩子会让他这么想。

Can I ask you, do you think if it had been me who had been pulled over, do you think he would have treated me that way?

我能问你，你觉得如果是我被拦下来的话，你觉得他会这样对我吗？

Oh, absolutely not.

哦，绝对不是。

Ira Glass Because I'm white?

艾拉·格拉斯 因为我是白人？

Right.

正确的。

Dispatcher Then you need to just get out of the car.

调度员 然后您需要下车。

They're not going to hurt you if you listen.

如果你听的话，他们就不会伤害你。

What are you saying somebody's not going to hurt you?

你说别人不会伤害你是什么意思？

People are getting shot by the police.

人们被警察开枪射击。

[INTERPOSING VOICES] Ira Glass The next thing that happens you may have seen on the news from her son's video.

[插话] Ira Glass 接下来发生的事情你可能已经在她儿子的视频新闻中看到了。

No. Don't mess my-- now they're about to mess my-- no!

不，别扰乱我的——现在他们就要扰乱我的——不！

Ira Glass The police bust through Jamal's window, taser him, open the door, and pull him out.

艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 警察冲破贾马尔的窗户，用泰瑟枪电击他，打开门，把他拉了出去。

He was arrested for failure to aid an officer and resisting law enforcement.

他因未能协助警官并抵抗执法而被捕。

[CRYING] Lisa says 9-1-1 hung up on her when they heard the window smash.

[哭泣] 丽莎说，当他们听到窗户破碎的声音时，9-1-1 就挂断了她的电话。

In the end of all this, the car damaged, her kid's crying, she was handed a ticket for not wearing a seat belt.

最后，车子坏了，孩子哭了，她还因为没有系安全带而收到了罚单。

[CRYING] People in our country do not agree on what to make of a story like this.

[哭泣]我们国家的人们对于如何理解这样的故事并没有达成一致。

Lots of people hear the story or see the video and they side with the dispatcher, right?

很多人听到这个故事或看到视频后都会站在调度员一边，对吧？

If you're stopped by the police, just do what the officer says.

如果你被警察拦住，就按照警察说的去做。

It'll be fine.

会没事的。

This is what lots of people said after Eric Garner died while being arrested in July in New York.

这是埃里克·加纳 (Eric Garner) 7 月在纽约被捕时去世后很多人说的。

People said it after Michael Brown was shot in Ferguson in August.

迈克尔·布朗八月份在弗格森被枪杀后，人们就这么说了。

Then there are lots of people like Lisa who say if you're black, it might not be fine.

还有很多像丽莎这样的人说，如果你是黑人，情况可能不太好。

I was petrified.

我吓呆了。

I just thought it was over.

我只是以为一切都结束了。

Our country is divided on this-- people who think the police are on their side, people who don't, but it's complicated.

我们的国家在这个问题上存在分歧——有人认为警察站在他们一边，有人不同意，但这很复杂。

For instance, if you're starting to think you know which side of the divide Lisa's on, especially after that experience, well--

例如，如果你开始认为你知道丽莎站在分歧的哪一边，尤其是在那次经历之后，那么——

Oh, I still trust the police.

呵呵，我还是相信警察的。

So I don't have anything against the police officers.

所以我对警察没有任何怨恨。

I think they deserve all the respect in the world.

我认为他们值得世界上所有的尊重。

The other day, there was a police officer on the side of the road with his blinkers on.

有一天，路边有一名戴着眼罩的警察。

I pulled over and asked him if he was OK.

我把车停在路边，问他还好吗。

It was just this one officer, she says.

她说，只有一位警官。

He was the problem.

他就是问题所在。

She's now suing the city of Hammond over the incident and has learned that this officer was named in three other lawsuits for using excessive force.

她目前正在就这一事件起诉哈蒙德市，并了解到这名警官因过度使用武力而在另外三起诉讼中被点名。

In all three, the city settled.

在这三个城市中，这座城市都安定下来了。

For so long now, there's been this conversation or debate-- I don't know what you want to call this-- about policing and race and people being targeted, and whenever it comes up, it seems to split very quickly into a kind of my side versus your side sort of thing.

很长一段时间以来，关于警务、种族和人们成为目标的对话或辩论——我不知道你想怎么称呼它——一直存在，每当它出现时，它似乎很快就会分裂成我一边与你一边之类的事情。

In these last few months, we've been talking about this stuff amongst ourselves here on the radio show staff and researching and reporting in different parts of the country, and we have found some things that surprised us about policing and how complicated and difficult it is, and about how hard it is to sort out the part that race and racism play in all kinds of incidents, and we found ways that racism seems undeniable.

在过去的几个月里，我们一直在广播节目工作人员中讨论这些事情，并在全国不同地区进行研究和报道，我们发现了一些令我们惊讶的事情，关于警务工作，以及它是多么复杂和困难，以及理清种族和种族主义在各种事件中所扮演的角色是多么困难，我们发现种族主义似乎是不可否认的。

Anyway, we discovered things that made us see some of this differently and we want to share that with you this week and next.

不管怎样，我们发现了一些让我们有不同看法的事情，我们想在本周和下周与您分享。

We have found so much of this, we actually couldn't fit it into one episode.

我们已经发现了太多这样的内容，实际上我们无法将其放入一集中。

So from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.

这是芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Stay with us.

留在我们身边。

So today, what we're going to do is we're going to focus on just one police department, a police department with a troubled history, and we're going to tell the story of the chief who is trying to change that and why it is so hard to change certain things.

所以今天，我们要做的就是只关注一个警察局，一个有着麻烦历史的警察局，我们将讲述一个试图改变这一现状的警察局长的故事，以及为什么改变某些事情如此困难。

Brian Reed tells the story.

布莱恩·里德讲述了这个故事。

When Chief Ed Flynn took over the Milwaukee police department in 2008, he was coming into one of the most segregated cities in America, a city that sends enormous numbers of black men to prison.

当埃德·弗林局长于 2008 年接管密尔沃基警察局时，他进入的是美国种族隔离最严重的城市之一，这座城市将大量黑人送进监狱。

Wisconsin sends the highest percentage of black men to prison of any state in the country, and in Milwaukee, that means more than half of black men in their 30s and early 40s have been to prison.

威斯康星州将黑人入狱的比例是全国最高的，而在密尔沃基，这意味着超过一半的 30 多岁和 40 岁出头的黑人入狱。

And just to give you a sense of how bad relations got between black residents and police, in 2004, the city saw a brutal incident that some people call Milwaukee's Rodney King case, the beating of Frank Jude.

为了让你了解黑人居民和警察之间的关系有多糟糕，2004 年，该市发生了一起残酷事件，一些人称之为密尔沃基的罗德尼·金案，即弗兰克·裘德被殴打的事件。

They're beating him up.

他们正在殴打他。

Dispatcher OK.

调度员好。

[INAUDIBLE].

[听不清]。

Jude was an exotic dancer.

裘德是一位异国情调的舞者。

He did bachelorette parties.

他举办单身派对。

And one night after work, he ended up at a party full of off duty police officers.

一天晚上下班后，他参加了一场由下班警察组成的聚会。

A group of about a dozen officers, all of whom were white and many of whom were drunk, surrounded Jude, who was black, and started beating him.

一群大约十几名警察，全是白人，其中许多人喝醉了，包围了黑人裘德，并开始殴打他。

They claimed he'd stolen one of their badges.

他们声称他偷了他们的一枚徽章。

Just like in the incident you heard about at the beginning of the show, one of the women who'd brought Frank Jude to the party decided to call 9-1-1 on the cops as they handcuffed Jude, cut his clothes off, and essentially tortured him-- kicked him repeatedly, bent his fingers back, shoved a pen in his ears, causing them to bleed.

就像你在节目开始时听到的那起事件一样，带弗兰克·裘德参加聚会的一名妇女决定向警察拨打 9-1-1，警察给裘德戴上手铐，剪掉他的衣服，实质上折磨了他——反复踢他，把他的手指向后弯曲，把一支笔塞进他的耳朵，导致他流血。

Even when the dispatcher sent on duty officers to the scene, one of them joined in the beating, stomping on Frank Jude's head while the other officers stood by.

即使调度员派了值班警察到现场，其中一名警察也加入了殴打，踩踏弗兰克·裘德的头，而其他警察则站在一旁。

They're kicking him, too.

他们也在踢他。

Dispatcher You're saying that the two officers that just arrived in the squad got out and started beating your friend also?

调度员：你是说，那两个刚到班里的警察也出来打你的朋友了？

Yeah.

是的。

They're holding him down.

他们正在压制他。

They're beating-- [INAUDIBLE].

他们正在殴打——[听不清]。

Eventually, seven officers were fired, three were sentenced to over 15 years in prison, but before that, officers closed ranks.

最终，七名警官被解雇，三人被判处 15 年以上监禁，但在此之前，警官们团结一致。

No one talked.

没有人说话。

No one knew anything.

没有人知道任何事情。

It showed the city how cops would turn the other way and protect their own even if they saw something truly terrible.

它向这座城市展示了警察如何转身保护自己，即使他们看到了真正可怕的事情。

The case hung over Milwaukee for years.

此案多年来一直困扰着密尔沃基。

So this was the climate Ed Flynn was walking into when he became chief.

这就是埃德·弗林成为酋长后所面临的气候。

Flynn had been in law enforcement for 35 years.

弗林从事执法工作 35 年。

He'd led several small city departments-- Chelsea and Springfield in Massachusetts, and Arlington, Virginia.

他曾领导过几个小型城市部门——马萨诸塞州的切尔西和斯普林菲尔德，以及弗吉尼亚州的阿灵顿。

He'd served as Secretary of Public Safety for the whole state of Massachusetts.

他曾担任马萨诸塞州全州的公共安全部长。

But when the job opened up in Milwaukee, it had a special appeal.

但当这项工作在密尔沃基开放时，它具有特殊的吸引力。

One of the attractive things for Milwaukee for me was that it had a very significant crime problem, highly concentrated in communities that had an historical antipathy for their police department.

密尔沃基对我来说有吸引力的事情之一是它有一个非常严重的犯罪问题，高度集中在对警察部门历来反感的社区。

That's what was attractive to you, crime and antipathy for the police?

这就是吸引你的地方，犯罪和对警察的反感？

I mean, absolutely.

我的意思是，绝对。

I mean, to me, Milwaukee represented the crux of the challenge of American policing in the 21st century.

我的意思是，对我来说，密尔沃基代表了 21 世纪美国警务挑战的症结所在。

And as Chief Flynn sees it, that challenge is--

正如弗林酋长所认为的，这个挑战是——

Those neighborhoods that need us the most and demand our services, when they get us, get mad at us.

那些最需要我们并需要我们服务的社区，当他们得到我们时，就会对我们生气。

How do we bridge that?

我们如何弥补这一点？

Flynn says he's confronted this his whole career, all the way back to when he started out as a beat cop in the '70s in Jersey City.

弗林说，他在整个职业生涯中都面临着这个问题，早在 70 年代他在泽西城刚开始当巡警时就遇到过这个问题。

I would go to street corners and there'd be, like, six black kids on a corner in an all black neighborhood.

我会去街角，在一个全黑人社区的拐角处会有六个黑人孩子。

I would always end up with a call for service saying complaints about kids hanging on a corner.

我总是会接到服务电话，抱怨孩子们挂在角落里。

Go back to that corner.

回到那个角落。

OK, kids you've got to move.

好吧，孩子们，你们必须搬家了。

You're just harassing us because we're black.

你只是因为我们是黑人而骚扰我们。

OK, do you see anybody else in this neighborhood?

好的，你在这附近看到其他人了吗？

Why do you think I'm picking on you?

你为什么认为我会针对你？

I said, somebody called.

我说，有人打电话来了。

Well, who are they?

那么，他们是谁？

We want to know.

我们想知道。

We have a right to stand here.

我们有权站在这里。

Point is folks that were calling us up looked just like the people that were hanging on the corner.

重点是那些打电话给我们的人看起来就像那些在角落里徘徊的人。

Flynn still sees this today in Milwaukee.

今天，弗林在密尔沃基仍然看到了这一点。

Most of the city's crime victims are African American and they're the group that has the most animosity towards the police.

该市的大多数犯罪受害者都是非裔美国人，他们是对警察最有敌意的群体。

That's not just in Milwaukee, obviously, but all around the country.

显然，这不仅发生在密尔沃基，而且发生在全国各地。

So here's a problem people have been debating heatedly, especially since Michael Brown was killed in Ferguson, and here's a guy who's been trying to fix the problem, to mend the relationship between black residents and the police in his city for the last seven years.

这是人们一直在激烈争论的一个问题，特别是自从迈克尔·布朗在弗格森被杀以来，这个人在过去七年里一直在试图解决这个问题，以修复他所在城市的黑人居民和警察之间的关系。

He's idealistic.

他很理想主义。

He's smart.

他很聪明。

He can sound very professorial, especially when he talks about the history of poverty and crime and policing.

他听起来非常专业，尤其是当他谈论贫困、犯罪和警务的历史时。

He goes in front of residents and says things like this.

他走到居民面前，说了这样的话。

We in this police department and in the police profession know we have inherited a social history of which we can't always be proud.

我们这个警察部门和警察职业知道我们继承了一段我们不能总是感到自豪的社会历史。

The police have often been in the middle of great conflict and not infrequently been agents of social control to preserve a status quo.

警察经常处于重大冲突之中，并且经常成为维持现状的社会控制代理人。

By the way, he's not reading here.

顺便说一句，他不在这里读书。

This is just how he talks.

他就是这样说话的。

And certainly in Milwaukee in the last 40 years, you've have your own rich history, sometimes between the police and the community.

当然，在过去 40 年里，密尔沃基有着自己丰富的历史，有时是在警察和社区之间。

So we've been working real hard in improving our relationship with neighborhoods so we had achieved some level of legitimacy.

因此，我们一直在努力改善与社区的关系，因此我们取得了一定程度的合法性。

Flynn became police chief in 2008.

弗林于2008年成为警察局长。

So what's he done?

那么他做了什么？

How's it going?

怎么样了？

He didn't enact one single big reform.

他没有实施任何一项重大改革。

It was lots of smaller, sometimes boring stuff.

这是很多较小的、有时甚至很无聊的东西。

He created a code of conduct, redrew the borders of police districts, shifted hundreds of officers from the citywide detective unit onto the streets, a move that wasn't popular in the department.

他制定了行为准则，重新划定了警察区的边界，将数百名警员从全市侦探部门调到了街道上，此举在警察局中并不受欢迎。

He did a big push to work with dozens of community groups.

他大力推动与数十个社区团体的合作。

He started this program with researchers at the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee to go into schools and teach kids in high crime areas why police are stopping people more often in their neighborhoods, how they should behave during stops, and how officers should behave.

他与威斯康星大学密尔沃基分校的研究人员一起启动了这个项目，走进学校，教导犯罪率高地区的孩子们，为什么警察在他们的社区更频繁地拦截人们，他们在拦截期间应该如何表现，以及警察应该如何表现。

So how would you, as a kid, feel walking in this area, knowing what you know now, and the police stop you?

那么，作为一个孩子，如果你走在这个地区，知道你现在所知道的，而警察阻止你，你会有什么感觉？

But you should be appreciative and happy that they're doing something.

但你应该对他们所做的事情表示感激和高兴。

As I spent time with members of the department, it was hard to pinpoint exactly what effect these changes have had, but I did get the sense that something had changed, even if it was sometimes intangible.

当我与部门成员相处时，很难确切地指出这些变化产生了什么影响，但我确实感觉到有些东西已经发生了变化，即使有时是无形的。

For instance, I kept hearing certain words again and again.

例如，我不断地听到某些词。

The most popular noun I heard, "community." The most popular verb?

我听到的最流行的名词是“社区”。最流行的动词？

We're here to engage and have a conversation.

我们来这里是为了参与和对话。

The officers should be marketing all the opportunities to engage with us.

官员们应该推销所有与我们接触的机会。

It has helped us to become more engaged in the community.

它帮助我们更多地参与社区。

Our community engagement and the activities that we've been doing.

我们的社区参与以及我们一直在进行的活动。

Building police legitimacy takes place when you directly engage.

当您直接参与时，就会建立警察的合法性。

Of course, police departments all over the country use these exact buzzwords-- say they're engaging more and doing community policing-- but it's hard to know what this actually means.

当然，全国各地的警察部门都使用这些确切的流行语——说他们正在更多地参与并进行社区治安——但很难知道这到底意味着什么。

I'm sorry I threw "engagement" out there.

很抱歉我把“订婚”这个词扔了出去。

I'm trying to get engaged.

我正在努力订婚。

No, it's all good.

不，一切都很好。

It's a term that you guys use, but I think that doesn't mean a lot to the outside world.

这是你们使用的术语，但我认为这对外界来说意义不大。

Right, right.

对，对。

Brian Reed I'm on an evening shift with Sergeant Theresa Janick.

布莱恩·里德（Brian Reed） 我和特蕾莎·贾尼克中士一起上夜班。

She's been on the force seven years.

她入伍已经七年了。

She's worked juvenile crimes, auto thefts.

她从事过青少年犯罪、汽车盗窃等工作。

She worked undercover.

她从事卧底工作。

Now she's a supervisor and she says it's an entirely new police department.

现在她是一名主管，她说这是一个全新的警察局。

10-4, thank you.

10-4，谢谢。

Go ahead and respond to 3291 to the shots fired.

继续对枪击事件做出回应 3291。

3217.

3217.

I can respond to that as well.

我也可以对此做出回应。

We could use just one more squad.

我们可以再使用一支小队。

Sergeant Janick works in district three, a largely black area with one of the highest crime rates in the city.

贾尼克警官在第三区工作，这是一个以黑人为主的地区，也是该市犯罪率最高的地区之一。

At around six o'clock, she heads to a block where shots have been reported.

六点左右，她前往有枪击报告的街区。

So now we're in the area.

现在我们就在该地区了。

We're going to try and see what we can stir up.

我们将尝试看看我们能激起什么。

Do you see anything going on out here, bud?

你看到这里发生了什么吗，伙计？

Nothing out here.

这里什么也没有。

Brian Reed Janick talks through her window to a guy on the sidewalk.

布莱恩·里德·贾尼克（Brian Reed Janick）透过窗户与人行道上的一个人交谈。

He says he's been out there like five minutes.

他说他已经在那里呆了大约五分钟了。

You didn't hear anything?

你什么都没听到吗？

Man Not five minutes ago.

男人 不到五分钟前。

About five minutes ago you heard something?

大约五分钟前你听到了什么？

No, no. Brian Reed It's worth noting that the gunshot Janick is responding to, she didn't learn about it from a 9-1-1 call.

不，不。布莱恩·里德 值得注意的是，贾尼克正在回应枪声，她并不是从 9-1-1 电话中得知的。

She learned about it from something called Shot Spotter.

她从一个叫做“射击观察者”的东西那里了解到了这一点。

It's new technology that Chief Flynn and several other chiefs around the country have put in place that uses sensors around the city to detect when gunshots go off and tells the cops what block they happened on.

这是弗林酋长和全国其他几位酋长采用的新技术，它使用城市周围的传感器来检测枪声何时响起，并告诉警察枪声发生在哪个街区。

What that means, though, is that even though Janick talks to several people who say, yeah, I heard a shot, not one of them called 9-1-1.

但这意味着，即使贾尼克与几个人交谈，他们都说，是的，我听到了一声枪响，但没有一个人叫“9-1-1”。

No one in the neighborhood did.

附近没有人这样做。

Sergeant Janick says this is common.

贾尼克中士说这种情况很常见。

When they installed Shot Spotter, the department found out that only 17% of all the shots fired were resulting in residents calling the police.

当他们安装 Shot Spotter 时，该部门发现，在所有枪击事件中，只有 17% 导致居民报警。

You heard it?

你听到了吗？

Where do you think you heard it from?

你认为你是从哪里听到的？

From back here.

从这里回来。

Theresa Janick From back here somewhere in this lot?

Theresa Janick 就在这个地段后面的某个地方吗？

Mm-hm.

嗯嗯。

Theresa Janick All right.

特里萨·贾尼克 好吧。

We'll let you guys get out of here, OK?

我们会让你们离开这里，好吗？

OK.

好的。

Brian Reed The Milwaukee police department's standard operating procedures Chief Flynn put into place include this line.

布莱恩·里德（Brian Reed） 弗林局长制定的密尔沃基警察局标准操作程序包括这句话。

"Police members can be expected to make numerous contacts with the public on a daily basis.

“警察每天都会与公众进行大量接触。

These contacts form the basis for the relationship between the department and the community." I rode on three shifts and watched a bunch of different officers, and one thing that struck me was how a single 9-1-1 call or just a single shot fired on Shot Spotter could quickly lead an officer to talking to a dozen people or more as they try to figure out what happened.

这些联系构成了部门和社区之间关系的基础。”我三班倒，观察了一群不同的警官，让我震惊的一件事是，一次 9-1-1 呼叫或仅仅向射击侦察员开一枪，就可以迅速导致一名警官在试图弄清楚发生了什么事时与十几个人或更多人交谈。

With this shot fired, for instance, when I was out with Sergeant Janick, there was no conclusion.

例如，当我和贾尼克中士出去时，开了这枪，没有结论。

They didn't find a shooter or a bullet or a casing, but still, it was an excuse for Sergeant Janick to interact with at least seven people, and it was easy for those conversations to move beyond the gunshot she was there to look into, like with this woman who was coming out of her garage.

他们没有找到射手、子弹或弹壳，但这仍然是贾尼克中士与至少七个人互动的借口，而且这些谈话很容易超出她在那里调查的枪声，就像这个从车库出来的女人一样。

You said did I hear anything?

你说我有听到什么吗？

Theresa Janick Yeah.

特蕾莎·贾尼克 是的。

No, I didn't.

不，我没有。

Theresa Janick Nothing?

特里萨·贾尼克 没什么？

How long have you been here?

你来这里多久了？

I live in this building, so I was downstairs in the garage for, like, 10 minutes.

我住在这栋楼里，所以我在楼下的车库里呆了大约 10 分钟。

Did you see anything crazy on the block lately?

你最近在街区看到过什么疯狂的事情吗？

It's always crazy stuff going on around here.

这里总是发生一些疯狂的事情。

Do you call?

你打电话吗？

Woman Uh-uh.

女人 呃呃。

It's just people outside, drunk people, like.

只是外面的人，喝醉酒的人之类的。

I just mind my business.

我只管我的事。

As long as I don't see anything like someone fighting or something like that, I will say something, but other than that, no.

只要我没有看到有人打架之类的事情，我就会说些什么，但除此之外，不会。

OK.

好的。

Can you do me a favor and call that stuff in when you see it so that we can help you out with some of the problems that are going on over here?

你能帮我一个忙，当你看到这些东西时打电话给我，以便我们可以帮助你解决这里出现的一些问题吗？

OK.

好的。

No problem.

没问题。

I didn't know that you guys wanted us to call that stuff in, but I will if I see anything.

我不知道你们想让我们把那些东西叫进来，但如果我看到什么我会的。

Yeah.

是的。

If there's a problem, we want to know about it.

如果有问题，我们想知道。

You're welcome.

不客气。

Brian Reed On one of her trips around the block, Sergeant Janick asks a man staggering outside a liquor store if everything's OK.

布莱恩·里德 (Brian Reed) 有一次在街区巡视时，贾尼克中士询问一名摇摇晃晃地走出一家酒品店的男子是否一切顺利。

He tells Janick that he's been robbed at gunpoint two times recently on that corner.

他告诉贾尼克，最近他在那个街角被持枪抢劫了两次。

Did you contact the police, Janick asks him.

“你联系过警察了吗？”贾尼克问他。

Nope, he says.

不，他说。

Would you like to report it now?

您现在想举报吗？

Yes.

是的。

She gets two officers to come take the report for him.

她让两名警官来替他拿报告。

So that was engagement.

这就是订婚。

We just saw engagement.

我们刚刚看到订婚。

I hate-- now that you say that we say it all the time--

我讨厌——既然你说我们一直这么说——

No, it's fine, because I think you just--

不，没关系，因为我认为你只是——

Now I'm noticing it.

现在我注意到了。

Brian Reed No, no, no. That, actually, I think I just finally saw what engagement was.

布莱恩·里德 不，不，不。事实上，我想我终于明白了什么是参与。

Yeah.

是的。

Brian Reed I know.

布莱恩·里德 我知道。

Listening to residents and actually trying to help them.

倾听居民的心声并切实帮助他们。

It didn't strike me as revolutionary, either.

我也不认为它是革命性的。

But Assistant Chief James Harpole, who's been with the Milwaukee police department for nearly 30 years, told my producer Ben Calhoun and me about this one time before Chief Flynn but not that long ago, when he went with an officer to a neighborhood meeting.

但在密尔沃基警察局工作了近 30 年的助理局长詹姆斯·哈波尔 (James Harpole) 有一次在弗林局长面前向我和我的制片人本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun) 讲述了这件事，但就在不久前，当时他和一名警官一起去参加邻里会议。

A number of concerns were brought to our attention, and he was writing them all in his book, and we left the meeting.

许多问题引起了我们的注意，他将它们全部写在了他的书中，然后我们离开了会议。

And I said, OK, so what's the next step?

我说，好吧，那么下一步是什么？

He said, well, nothing.

他说，好吧，没什么。

He said, I just keep these in my book, and if it ever comes up again, I can say how we were aware of it.

他说，我只是把这些记在我的书里，如果它再次出现，我可以说出我们是如何意识到它的。

I'm like, OK, that's not going to cut it for me.

我想，好吧，这对我来说是不行的。

I said, these people expect that something's going to happen here.

我说，这些人预计这里会发生什么事。

We can't just write it down and drive away and say we're done.

我们不能只是写下来然后开车离开并说我们已经完成了。

We've got to do something.

我们必须做点什么。

I did.

我做到了。

Brian Reed And what did he say back to you?

布莱恩·里德 他对你说了什么？

He seemed shocked.

他看上去很震惊。

He's like, well, that's just the way we've always done it.

他说，好吧，我们一直都是这样做的。

The cop Harpole is talking about, his whole job was to coordinate with residents.

哈波尔所说的警察，他的全部工作就是与居民协调。

His title was Community Liaison Officer.

他的头衔是社区联络官。

Contrast that with what I saw at a daily briefing in district three.

将其与我在第三区每日简报中看到的情况进行对比。

So much of it was cops discussing intel from residents and taking it seriously.

其中大部分是警察讨论居民提供的情报并认真对待。

They updated the captain about a meeting they'd held with people who lived near the site of a recent homicide who had helped them identify 17 nuisance properties where criminal activity might be going on.

他们向船长通报了他们与居住在最近发生的凶杀案现场附近的人们举行的一次会议的最新情况，这些人帮助他们确定了 17 个可能正在进行犯罪活动的滋扰场所。

They read aloud from emails a guy sent them with the license plate of cars he saw picking up suspected prostitutes, and--

他们大声朗读了一个人发给他们的电子邮件，上面有他看到接载可疑妓女的汽车牌照，然后——

One more update.

还有一则更新。

If someone can help Dave from the bakery get in touch with Gorman Properties regarding some windows at 40th and Cherry.

如果有人可以帮助面包店的 Dave 联系 Gorman Properties，了解 40th 和 Cherry 的一些窗户事宜。

OK.

好的。

Brian Reed In case you didn't get that, this is literal broken window policing.

布莱恩·里德（Brian Reed） 如果你没听懂，这就是名副其实的破窗警察。

They're going to get a landlord to replace some busted glass.

他们要请房东更换一些破损的玻璃。

Three years into Flynn's tenure, it was going pretty well.

弗林上任三年来，一切进展顺利。

Violent crimes were down, homicides were down, citizen complaints against police were decreasing by quite a bit.

暴力犯罪减少，凶杀案减少，公民对警察的投诉也大幅减少。

Then in the summer of 2011, things took a bad turn, starting with the arrest of a man named Derek Williams.

然后在 2011 年夏天，事情发生了糟糕的转变，首先是一个名叫德里克·威廉姆斯 (Derek Williams) 的男子被捕。

One night in July, officers responded to the scene of a robbery and found Williams.

七月的一个晚上，警察赶赴抢劫现场并找到了威廉姆斯。

He was 22 years old, black.

他今年 22 岁，黑人。

He ran.

他跑了。

Officers chased him over a fence, caught him, handcuffed him, and put him in the back of a police car where a camera recorded what happened next.

警察越过栅栏追赶他，抓住他，给他戴上手铐，然后把他放在警车后座上，摄像机记录下了接下来发生的事情。

[INAUDIBLE].

[听不清]。

Police Officer 8 What's your last name?

警官 8 你姓什么？

I can't breathe.

我无法呼吸。

Police Officer 8 You're breathing just fine.

警官 8 你呼吸正常。

Believe me.

相信我。

Police Officer 8 What's your last name?

警官 8 你姓什么？

I can't breathe, Sir.

我无法呼吸，先生。

Police Officer 8 You're just playing games.

警官8 你只是在玩游戏。

The video is horrible to watch.

该视频很难看。

Minutes go by as Williams, shirtless and in handcuffs, writhes in the backseat, gasping for air.

几分钟过去了，威廉姆斯赤裸着上身，戴着手铐，在后座上翻滚，喘着粗气。

He pleads for medical attention but the officers ignore him.

他请求医疗救助，但警察无视他。

This goes on for nearly eight minutes, then Derek Williams slumps over on the seat, at which point an officer opens the door and tries to wake him up.

这种情况持续了近八分钟，然后德里克·威廉姆斯倒在座位上，此时一名警官打开车门并试图叫醒他。

Hey, Derek.

嘿，德里克。

Derek.

德里克.

Brian Reed He checks his pulse.

布莱恩·里德 他检查了脉搏。

A few minutes later in the video, you see police administering CPR, but it was too late.

几分钟后，在视频中，你看到警察正在实施心肺复苏，但为时已晚。

Derek Williams died in the back of a squad car as he pleaded for medical help.

德里克·威廉姆斯在请求医疗帮助时死在一辆警车后座上。

It was Milwaukee's own Eric Garner video three years before it happened in New York.

这是密尔沃基埃里克·加纳自己的视频，三年前它发生在纽约。

And through all the investigations, Chief Flynn defended the officers involved and they continued on active duty.

在所有调查过程中，弗林警长为涉案警官辩护，他们继续服役。

People were furious.

人们非常愤怒。

They protested, demanded that the state press criminal charges against the officers, demanded that the chief resign.

他们提出抗议，要求国家对这些官员提出刑事指控，要求负责人辞职。

Amazingly, Flynn says when he and other commanders first watched the video, they did not foresee that reaction.

令人惊讶的是，弗林说，当他和其他指挥官第一次观看视频时，他们并没有预见到这种反应。

Our first thought when that tape was finished was breathing a sigh of relief.

当磁带完成时，我们的第一个想法是松了一口气。

Well gosh, the cops didn't do anything to him.

好吧，天哪，警察没有对他做什么。

And of course, what we're completely missing is that an average person seeing that tape is perceiving absolutely uncaring, unfeeling officers who refused to do anything about a man in distress, and we missed it.

当然，我们完全忽略的是，普通人看到录像带时会感受到绝对漠不关心、冷酷无情的警察，他们拒绝对陷入困境的人采取任何行动，而我们错过了这一点。

Flynn says part of the disconnect stemmed from the fact that the video camera was infrared, so people watching it after the fact could see Derek Williams in a way the officers couldn't in the moment because it was dark.

弗林说，部分原因是摄像机是红外线的，所以事后观看的人可以看到德里克·威廉姆斯，而警察当时因为天黑而看不到德里克·威廉姆斯。

But the biggest problem, he says, is that he took for granted that the public would understand his reasoning for not disciplining the officers.

但他说，最大的问题是，他理所当然地认为公众会理解他不对警察进行纪律处分的理由。

You know, in hindsight, one recognizes it's difficult to explain the universe of police officers in crisis situations and how often an average officer encounters an arrested suspect who doesn't want to go to jail and wants to go to the hospital.

你知道，事后看来，人们认识到很难解释危机情况下的警察群体，以及一名普通警察多久会遇到一名不想入狱而想去医院的被捕嫌疑人。

Exactly.

确切地。

I can't breathe, I have something wrong with me, I have a pain.

我无法呼吸，我身体出了问题，我感到疼痛。

And after a while, it becomes just part of the noise of making an arrest and officers get a little inured to it.

过了一段时间，它就变成了逮捕噪音的一部分，警察们对此也有点习惯了。

Now, that's not something the public wants to hear the police chief try to explain when a young man just dropped dead in the back of a car, and so the lesson that was clear to us is if you say you can't breathe, OK, we're calling an ambulance.

现在，当一名年轻人刚刚倒在汽车后座上死亡时，公众不想听到警察局长试图解释这一点，所以我们清楚的教训是，如果你说你无法呼吸，好吧，我们会叫救护车。

You changed the policy?

你改政策了？

Ed Flynn We changed the policy.

艾德·弗林 我们改变了政策。

We made it mandatory.

我们将其强制执行。

We probably tripled the number of ambulance runs for people under arrest going to jail, but we removed the officers' need to make a judgment.

我们为被捕入狱的人提供的救护车数量可能增加了两倍，但我们取消了警察做出判断的需要。

I think part of what upset people so much about that, and what's upsetting to watch about it, I think it made people wonder why a policy is needed to have officers respond that way.

我认为，这件事让人们如此不安，以及令人不安的部分原因是，我认为这让人们想知道为什么需要一项政策来让官员们做出这样的反应。

You know, you look at this and it's kind of like, wouldn't it be basic human decency to respond to someone who's in distress like that or asking for help like that?

你知道，你看看这个，有点像，回应像这样陷入困境的人或像这样寻求帮助不是基本的人类尊严吗？

And I wonder if you think that incident points to some kind of lack of empathy.

我想知道您是否认为该事件表明缺乏同理心。

Cops start out empathetic or they wouldn't be doing this in the first place.

警察一开始就具有同理心，否则他们一开始就不会这样做。

You come to a police academy graduation, you talk to officers in training.

你来到警察学院毕业典礼，与受训的警官交谈。

They're dying to get out there and help people.

他们渴望走出去帮助人们。

But as the social net has frayed, cops are spending enormous amounts of time with the social problems that society's taken a walk on, and night after night after night, police officers go through the same problems for which there are no solutions.

但随着社交网络的磨损，警察花费了大量的时间来解决社会普遍关注的社会问题，夜复一夜，警察们都在解决同样的问题，但没有解决办法。

The people that are police officers are regular people just like you, and they have faced the same kind of long term stresses on their equilibrium that anybody who is deployed year after year after year to Iraq and Afghanistan experiences.

警察和你们一样都是普通人，他们面临着与任何年复一年被部署到伊拉克和阿富汗的人一样的长期平衡压力。

It happens more rapidly in a war zone, obviously, but the same dynamics are working on America's police officers every day on the streets of our cities, and they do harden themselves.

显然，这种情况在战区发生得更快，但同样的动力每天都在我们城市的街道上作用于美国警察，他们确实变得更加坚强。

They have to.

他们必须这样做。

One thing Flynn says he's doing to try to rebuild empathy, he's trying to get cops on foot patrols at least an hour a shift so they can have friendly interactions with people who aren't in bad situations.

弗林说，他正在做的一件事是试图重建同理心，他试图让警察每班至少一个小时徒步巡逻，这样他们就可以与处境不那么糟糕的人进行友好互动。

Assistant Chief James Harpole says cynicism is especially dangerous to cops on third shift from midnight to 8:00 AM.

助理局长詹姆斯·哈波尔 (James Harpole) 表示，愤世嫉俗对于从午夜到上午 8:00 值三班的警察来说尤其危险。

He worked that shift for four years and he remembers the moment he realized he'd become jaded.

他这样轮班工作了四年，他还记得他意识到自己变得厌倦的那一刻。

It was when he got switched to second shift in the afternoons.

那是他下午被调到第二班的时候。

My first day working second shift was an eye opening experience for me.

我第一天二班工作对我来说是一次大开眼界的经历。

I'm driving down the street in the very same neighborhood I patrolled on third shift, and I see families, people pushing their babies, people waving at us as we were driving down the street.

我开车沿着我值三班巡逻的那个街区的街道行驶，看到家人、人们推着他们的孩子，当我们沿着街道行驶时，人们向我们挥手。

It shocked me.

这让我很震惊。

I was in shock.

我很震惊。

I had not experienced that.

我没有经历过。

I realized at that very moment that the area that I was patrolling had an overwhelming majority of hardworking, outstanding individuals who wanted to have safe neighborhoods.

就在那一刻，我意识到我所巡逻的地区绝大多数都是勤劳、优秀的人，他们希望拥有安全的社区。

That hadn't occurred to you before, for real?

你以前没有想到过这一点，真的吗？

Because I didn't deal with people like that.

因为我不和这样的人打交道。

Before you even made it out of the station house, the dispatcher was sending you to the first fight and everybody was drunk and blood everywhere.

在你走出车站之前，调度员就派你去参加第一场战斗，每个人都喝醉了，到处都是血。

So no, I hadn't even begun to think, is there anybody that's not like this?

所以不，我什至没有开始思考，有没有人不是这样的？

Harpole says working second shift completely changed his mindset for dealing with people on the job.

哈波尔说，二班倒彻底改变了他与工作人员打交道的心态。

I asked Chief Flynn if they ever change people's shifts with this in mind, rotate cops to give them different perspectives on a neighborhood, and he said they can't because the union contract doesn't allow them to.

我问弗林局长，他们是否会考虑到这一点而改变人们的轮班，轮换警察，让他们对社区有不同的看法，他说他们不能，因为工会合同不允许他们这样做。

I told him it seemed like, from Harpole's story, there might be value in it.

我告诉他，从哈波尔的故事来看，它可能有价值。

He said, yeah, there'd be value in renegotiating the contract, too.

他说，是的，重新谈判合同也很有价值。

Brian Reed.

布赖恩·里德.

Coming up, his story continues, and among other things, we go with Chief Flynn's officers as they try to solve a case, a shooting.

接下来，他的故事还在继续，除此之外，我们和弗林局长的官员一起试图侦破一起枪击案。

That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.

芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。

It's This American Life.

这就是美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

This week and next on our show, "Cops See Things Differently," stories of policing and race.

本周和下周我们的节目“警察以不同的方式看待事物”，讲述警务和种族的故事。

We're telling the story today of Chief Ed Flynn's tenure at the Milwaukee police department and how he's trying to improve relations between the police and black residents.

今天我们要讲述的是埃德·弗林局长在密尔沃基警察局的任期，以及他如何努力改善警察与黑人居民之间的关系。

One of the challenges he faced was he wanted to start a program that would basically be Milwaukee's version of the stop and frisk program, which is so controversial in New York City.

他面临的挑战之一是他想启动一个基本上是密尔沃基版本的拦截搜查计划的计划，该计划在纽约市颇受争议。

Stop and frisk, of course, was policemen stopping pedestrians, but in Milwaukee, people drive, so lots of the stops were traffic stops.

当然，拦截搜身指的是警察拦住行人，但在密尔沃基，人们开车，所以很多停车都是交通堵塞。

Again, here's Brian Reed.

布莱恩·里德再次报道。

When Chief Flynn looked at the data from Milwaukee, he saw that when officers pulled over people in high crime areas more frequently for minor violations like having a taillight out or running a stop sign, car thefts went down.

当弗林警长查看密尔沃基的数据时，他发现，当警察更频繁地在犯罪率高的地区拦下因尾灯熄灭或闯停车标志等轻微违规行为的人时，汽车盗窃案就会减少。

Flynn believed more stops would mean fewer crimes, so he wanted to do more stops, but somehow without angering people or alienating them.

弗林相信更多的拦截意味着更少的犯罪，所以他想做更多的拦截，但不知何故不会激怒人们或疏远他们。

I also wanted to make sure we didn't accidentally enact a poor person's tax.

我还想确保我们不会无意中颁布穷人税。

If I'm going to put the cops on the hot spots and say enforce traffic laws because I really want to reduce robberies and car thefts, but I'm writing everybody tickets, how much good did I do myself?

如果我要派警察到热点地区并说执行交通法规，因为我真的想减少抢劫和汽车盗窃，但我给每个人都开罚单，我自己做了多少好事？

Maybe I'm going to reduce the number car thefts, but everybody hates us.

也许我会减少汽车盗窃的数量，但每个人都讨厌我们。

So the order that implemented this policy said give warnings if you possibly can.

因此，实施这项政策的命令表示，如果可以的话，请发出警告。

The preferred outcome is a warning.

首选结果是警告。

The number of traffic stops in Milwaukee almost quadrupled and the number of times officers stopped pedestrians tripled.

密尔沃基的交通堵塞数量几乎增加了四倍，警察拦截行人的次数增加了两倍。

And, like Flynn wanted, he says fewer than 20% of the traffic stops resulted in citation or arrest.

而且，正如弗林所希望的那样，他表示只有不到 20% 的交通堵塞导致被传票或逮捕。

Car thefts and robberies decreased, and Flynn saw an added benefit.

汽车盗窃和抢劫减少了，弗林看到了额外的好处。

Citizen complaints dropped, too.

公民投诉也有所下降。

He thinks that's because more people were having good interactions with the cops, and there are numbers on this.

他认为这是因为越来越多的人与警察进行了良好的互动，而且这方面的数据也有相关数据。

A University of Wisconsin Milwaukee study that came out last month found that more than 60% of people who'd been approached by police during traffic stops said they were satisfied with how the officer handled the interaction.

威斯康星大学密尔沃基分校上个月发布的一项研究发现，在交通堵塞期间被警察接近的人中，超过 60% 的人表示，他们对警察处理互动的方式感到满意。

But it was also during these traffic stops and pedestrian stops that one of the biggest scandals of Flynn's tenure as police chief happened.

但也正是在这些交通堵塞和行人停车期间，弗林担任警察局长期间最大的丑闻之一发生了。

Dozens of people are now suing the department.

目前已有数十人起诉该部门。

One of them is Brandon Graham.

布兰登·格雷厄姆就是其中之一。

Brandon is 25 years old.

布兰登今年 25 岁。

He says he started getting stopped back sometime in 2011, about three years into Flynn's push to increase stops.

他说，他在 2011 年的某个时候就开始被拦截，大约在弗林推动增加拦截的三年后。

The way Brandon remembers it, one day he went back to a neighborhood he used to live in on the north side of Milwaukee, and his friends kept telling him how the cops in that district, district five, had been harassing them constantly.

布兰登记得，有一天，他回到密尔沃基北部他曾经居住的一个社区，他的朋友们不断告诉他，第五区的警察如何不断地骚扰他们。

I didn't really take it serious what they were saying.

我并没有真正认真地对待他们所说的话。

I'm thinking, like, you guys were doing something wrong to be stopped by the police.

我在想，你们做错事了，被警察拦住了。

There's no police officer that's going to waste their time in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where there's a lot of crime, to stop you from walking down the street.

在犯罪猖獗的威斯康星州密尔沃基，没有哪个警察会浪费时间来阻止你在街上行走。

Brandon's naivete lasted for all of two hours.

布兰登的天真持续了整整两个小时。

Sure enough, he says, that very afternoon, the cops came by.

他说，果然，那天下午，警察就过来了。

We all stopped.

我们都停了下来。

I had no worries.

我没有担心。

I thought they were maybe looking for someone else, and I'm sure that it's not legal for the cops just to pull up and just pat you down with no probable cause.

我以为他们可能在寻找其他人，而且我确信警察在没有任何合理理由的情况下停下来搜查你是不合法的。

So we were all sitting there, and they asked me my name or whatever, asked me for my ID.

所以我们都坐在那里，他们问我的名字或其他什么，问我的身份证。

I'm like, OK.

我想，好吧。

I give them my ID or whatever.

我给他们我的身份证或其他什么。

I'm like, is there any type of problems?

我想，有什么问题吗？

They tell me to shut the F up.

他们叫我让 F 闭嘴。

He grabbed my pants and pulled them up to almost where I was on my tiptoes, and once he did that, he rubbed his hand from the front all the way to the back, from my testicles to my buttocks back and forth.

他抓住我的裤子，把它拉到了我踮起脚尖的地方，然后他的手从前面一直到后面，从我的睾丸到臀部来回摩擦。

So I'm like, what's going on?

所以我想，发生了什么事？

I'm not understanding why this is happening.

我不明白为什么会发生这种情况。

It seemed as though they were trying their best to intimidate us, how they were talking to everyone end and not waiting for an answer.

似乎他们正在尽最大努力恐吓我们，他们如何与每个人交谈结束而不等待答案。

And like I said, it's only the first time.

就像我说的，这只是第一次。

Soon after, Brandon ended up moving back to that neighborhood, and the random stops continued in the same style as that first one.

不久之后，布兰登最终搬回了那个社区，随机停留的方式与第一次停留的风格相同。

So wait.

所以等等。

How many times has this happened to you?

这种情况在你身上发生过多少次？

It's happened almost every single day, like a couple years, every day.

这种事几乎每天都在发生，就像几年来，每天都在发生。

One night, I spent time with Brandon and some of his friends back in district five.

一天晚上，我在第五区与布兰登和他的一些朋友共度时光。

Brandon doesn't live there anymore, but they got to reminiscing about officers from the neighborhood, and listen to how well they knew them.

布兰登不再住在那里，但他们不得不回忆起附近的警察，并听听他们对他们的了解程度。

It's like they're talking about old high school classmates or something.

就像他们在谈论高中老同学什么的。

No, the little short white dude.

不，是那个矮个子白人。

Slam.

满贯。

The one that slammed you all on the hood.

那个让你们所有人都震惊的人。

You talking about Kapinsky?

你在说卡平斯基吗？

Man 2 No. Kapinsky was kind of big.

Man 2 No. Kapinsky 有点大。

Kapinsky's kind of big.

卡平斯基有点大。

I'm talking about the dude that's, like, your height.

我说的是那个和你身高差不多的家伙。

Late night.

深夜。

Man 1 Oh.

男人1哦。

That's probably [INAUDIBLE] Letterman.

那可能是[听不清]莱特曼。

Vag was probably in the green car that night.

那天晚上，瓦格很可能就在绿色车厢里。

Because didn't Vag use to be in a white detail car?

因为 Vag 以前不是开过一辆白色细节车吗？

Yeah.

是的。

That's the car he pulled in the driveway in, my aunt's driveway.

那是他停在车道上的车，我姨妈的车道。

They're saying "Vag," short for Officer Michael Vagnini, the most notorious cop in the district at the time, and maybe all of Milwaukee.

他们说的是“Vag”，是迈克尔·瓦尼尼警官的缩写，他是当时该地区乃至整个密尔沃基最臭名昭著的警察。

This is Brandon's friend P remembering the night officer Vagnini followed him into his aunt and uncle's driveway.

这是布兰登的朋友 P 记得夜班警官瓦尼尼跟踪他进入他姨妈和叔叔的车道。

[INAUDIBLE] walked all in her house.

[听不清]在她家里走来走去。

It's two something in the morning, walked all in the house, searched the house.

凌晨两点多，在屋子里走了一圈，搜查了屋子。

Walked in my uncle's room.

走进舅舅的房间。

He's just getting out of the shower, butt ass naked.

他刚洗完澡，屁股光着。

Oh yeah, man, put some clothes on.

哦，是的，伙计，穿上衣服。

Fuck out of here, nigga.

滚出这里吧，黑鬼。

This ain't your motherfucking house.

这不是你他妈的房子。

Get the fuck out.

他妈的滚出去。

My uncle snapped, saying, do you got a search warrant?

我舅舅厉声说道，你有搜查令吗？

He said, let me put my clothes on.

他说，让我穿上衣服吧。

Let me call your sergeant and see if this is OK.

让我给你的中士打电话看看是否可以。

It was this officer, Michael Vagnini, who Brandon says was responsible for the worst night of his life.

布兰登说，正是这名警官迈克尔·瓦格尼尼(Michael Vagnini)造成了他一生中最糟糕的夜晚。

He and some friends were in the car and a group of officers pulled them over.

他和一些朋友在车里，一群警察把他们拦了下来。

In court documents, the police say it was because they ran a stop sign and were missing a side mirror.

在法庭文件中，警方称这是因为他们遇到了停车标志并且缺少后视镜。

They asked Brandon and his friends to get out of car.

他们要求布兰登和他的朋友下车。

One officer patted Brandon down, then another.

一名警官拍拍了布兰登，然后是另一名警官。

Again, Brandon's description is graphic.

布兰登的描述再次形象化。

Vagnini then was saying, I'm not a rookie, and then searched me.

瓦尼尼当时就说，我不是菜鸟，然后就搜查了我。

He stuck his hands in my boxers from the back first around my rectum area, and then reached around the front and kind of moved around my testicles.

他把手从后面伸进我的内裤里，首先围绕着我的直肠区域，然后把手伸到前面，在我的睾丸周围移动。

And the whole time, I'm having to hold my hands up, and every time I dropped my hands, he threatened me, you know, like if you drop your hands anymore, I'll kick you in the forehead.

自始至终，我都必须举起双手，每次我放下手时，他都会威胁我，你知道，就像如果你再放下手，我就会踢你的额头。

The whole time, I'm begging, please, Vag, you're touching my ass, you're touching my ass.

一直以来，我都在乞求，拜托，Vag，你在摸我的屁股，你在摸我的屁股。

You have your fingers around my butt hole.

你的手指放在我的屁股洞上。

You're scratching me.

你在抓我。

You're lifting my testicles.

你正在举起我的睾丸。

It brought tears to my eyes because it's like, what can I do about this?

这让我热泪盈眶，因为我想，我能做些什么呢？

When is it going to stop?

什么时候才会停止呢？

The other officers are standing right there.

其他军官都站在那里。

Brandon says Officer Vagnini then pulled out a knife and cut open the waistband of his pants, where Brandon had two bags of cocaine.

布兰登说，瓦尼尼警官随后掏出一把刀，割开他裤子的腰带，布兰登身上有两袋可卡因。

The officers arrested Brandon.

警察逮捕了布兰登。

He plead guilty to a misdemeanor possession charge.

他承认持有轻罪。

In the criminal complaint, the police say that Brandon consented to a search of his person.

警方在刑事起诉书中称，布兰登同意对其进行搜查。

There's no description of the search.

没有关于搜索的描述。

Almost a year later, in 2012, Chief Flynn and the district attorney announced that they were investigating a pattern of complaints from the previous couple years about illegal searches, including illegal strip searches and cavity searches.

大约一年后，即 2012 年，弗林局长和地区检察官宣布，他们正在调查前几年有关非法搜查的投诉模式，包括非法脱衣搜查和体腔搜查。

Flynn asked any residents with information or complaints to call Internal Affairs.

弗林要求任何有信息或投诉的居民致电内政部。

Three officers eventually plead no contest to being party to the illegal searches and were given community service.

三名警官最终对参与非法搜查没有异议，并接受了社区服务。

One went to jail for 20 days.

其中一人入狱 20 天。

Officer Vagnini plead no contest to four counts of illegal cavity searches and misconduct in public office.

瓦尼尼警官对四项非法搜查身体和公职人员不当行为的指控没有提出抗辩。

He was sentenced to a little more than two years in prison.

他被判处两年多一点的监禁。

For his sentencing, dozens of police officers wrote letters supporting him, saying his only crime was overzealousness in keeping the community safe from criminals.

对于他的判决，数十名警察写信支持他，称他唯一的罪行是过分热衷于保护社区免受犯罪分子的侵害。

They called him exemplary, one of the best cops in the city, the kind of officer they wanted to be.

他们称他为模范，是该市最好的警察之一，是他们想成为的那种警察。

But Vagnini's trial wasn't the end of it.

但瓦尼尼的审判并没有结束。

About 60 people are now suing the department claiming they were also illegally searched.

目前约有 60 人正在起诉该部门，声称他们也遭到非法搜查。

They name at least 40 officers and allege that supervisors looked the other way or ignored complaints.

他们列出了至少 40 名警官的名字，并声称主管们对此视而不见或忽视投诉。

A Milwaukee civil rights attorney who represented Frank Jude told me he'd been getting calls complaining about illegal searches for years before the chief announced his investigation.

代表弗兰克·裘德的密尔沃基民权律师告诉我，在局长宣布调查之前，他多年来一直接到投诉非法搜查的电话。

Even though he believed many of them and started to notice patterns involving specific officers, he couldn't prove the claims.

尽管他相信其中的许多说法，并开始注意到涉及特定官员的模式，但他无法证明这些说法。

Safran says a man who contacted him 10 years ago about an illegal search called him recently and said I told you so.

萨夫兰说，一名十年前就非法搜查事宜联系过他的男子最近打电话给他，说我已经告诉过你了。

Safran says some of the people who reported this behavior are still in prison because of the searches they say were illegal.

萨峰集团表示，一些举报这一行为的人仍在监狱中，因为他们称搜查是非法的。

It probably goes without saying that Brandon is one of the many black Milwaukeeans who has not been won over by Chief Flynn's campaign to build trust.

不言而喻，布兰登是密尔沃基众多没有被弗林酋长建立信任的运动所赢得的黑人之一。

I asked him and his friend Rex if they could picture a scenario in which they'd ever call the cops for help, if they got robbed at gunpoint, for instance.

我问他和他的朋友雷克斯，他们是否可以想象这样一个场景：如果他们被枪指着抢劫，他们会向警察寻求帮助。

You're asking if we're going to call the police?

你问我们要不要报警？

Yes.

是的。

Brandon Graham No. You would call the police, Rex?

布兰登·格雷厄姆 不。你会报警吗，雷克斯？

[INAUDIBLE] the police.

[听不清] 警察。

Brian Reed Chief Flynn told me when he learned about the illegal searches and the cavity searches, he was furious and disappointed.

布莱恩·里德·弗林酋长告诉我，当他得知非法搜查和洞穴搜查时，他感到愤怒和失望。

He says this was a small, isolated group of officers who slipped into a game of getting the, quote, "bad guys" at all costs.

他说，这是一小群孤立的警官，他们陷入了不惜一切代价抓捕“坏人”的游戏。

But he also says he's skeptical of the people coming forward now claiming they were illegally searched and suing because of it.

但他也表示，他对现在站出来声称自己遭到非法搜查并因此提起诉讼的人持怀疑态度。

He called the lawsuits a cottage industry.

他称这些诉讼为家庭手工业。

He says the department only ever got three complaints and they were all from drug dealers who had been frequently arrested.

他说，该部门只收到三起投诉，而且全部来自经常被捕的毒贩。

One thing that surprised me talking to Flynn, especially because he's such a student of history, was what he said when I asked him about the issue that's at the center of so many conversations about policing, race.

在与弗林交谈时，让我感到惊讶的一件事是，当我问他有关警务和种族的众多对话的核心问题时，他所说的话，尤其是因为他是一名历史系学生。

At the level of cop working in the neighborhood, race is irrelevant.

对于在附近工作的警察来说，种族无关紧要。

It's just people.

这只是人。

Flynn says that whenever there's an incident between a white officer and a black resident, people get upset and say it's racism, but he says they're missing the big picture.

弗林说，每当白人警官和黑人居民之间发生事件时，人们都会感到不安，并说这是种族主义，但他说他们忽略了大局。

So for instance, in 2011, The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel did a story where a data reporter looked at police records and found that black drivers in the city were seven times more likely than white drivers to be stopped by police.

例如，2011年，《密尔沃基哨兵报》做了一篇报道，一名数据记者查看了警察记录，发现该市黑人司机被警察拦下的可能性是白人司机的七倍。

In response, Flynn did a whole presentation for residents with maps and crime numbers where he told them the same thing he told me, that the disparity isn't because of officers' bias against black residents.

作为回应，弗林为居民做了一个完整的演示，其中包括地图和犯罪数字，他告诉他们他告诉我的同样的事情，即这种差异并不是因为警察对黑人居民的偏见。

It's just that the majority of crimes happen in neighborhoods that are overwhelmingly African American.

只是大多数犯罪发生在绝大多数是非裔美国人的社区。

And people come and say, we're shocked, shocked to find out the police are intervening so much in this neighborhood.

人们过来说，我们很震惊，很震惊地发现警察在这个社区进行了如此多的干预。

What?

什么？

What?

什么？

Of course our interventions are going to generate disparities.

当然，我们的干预会产生差异。

I mean, they're going to match the disparities of where our crimes and victims are.

我的意思是，他们将匹配我们的犯罪和受害者所在地区的差异。

That may explain the statistics, but what I wanted to know was doesn't race play a role in those interventions?

这也许可以解释统计数据，但我想知道的是，种族在这些干预措施中没有发挥作用吗？

Only 17% of the Milwaukee police force is black in an incredibly segregated city.

在密尔沃基这座极度种族隔离的城市，只有 17% 的警察是黑人。

I told Flynn there's evidence that race can influence the way cops deal with black residents.

我告诉弗林，有证据表明种族会影响警察对待黑人居民的方式。

Some of this we're going to talk about more in next week's show.

我们将在下周的节目中详细讨论其中的一些内容。

There's research about people's implicit biases, subconscious racism that can affect officers' decisions.

有研究表明人们的隐性偏见和潜意识种族主义会影响警察的决策。

But there's also evidence in Chief Flynn's own department, according to that Journal Sentinel story, which showed that the largest disparity between blacks and whites getting pulled over in Milwaukee didn't happen in high crime black areas of the city, but in the two lowest crime districts, both with predominantly white populations.

但根据《哨兵报》的报道，弗林局长自己的部门也有证据表明，密尔沃基黑人和白人被拦下的最大差异并不发生在该市犯罪率高的黑人地区，而是发生在两个犯罪率最低的地区，这两个地区都以白人为主。

The paper also found that once black drivers were pulled over, they were twice as likely as white drivers to have police search their cars, even though that didn't lead to finding more drugs or weapons.

该报还发现，一旦黑人司机被拦下，他们被警察搜查汽车的可能性是白人司机的两倍，尽管这并没有导致发现更多毒品或武器。

Flynn eventually said he's not trying to say race plays no role in policing.

弗林最终表示，他并不是想说种族在警务中没有任何作用。

But what I am trying to say is that it does not play the role people think it does.

但我想说的是，它并没有发挥人们认为的作用。

The average reality of police working the same neighborhoods every day or every night, any biases you build up, tend to be based on a collection of experiences you've had based on the neighborhood in which you're working, and that counts for, in a practical way, more.

警察每天或每晚在同一个社区工作的平均现实，你所建立的任何偏见，往往都是基于你所工作的社区的一系列经验，而从实际角度来看，这更重要。

I left this conversation not feeling like the chief was denying a reality because it was uncomfortable for him to admit it, more like he honestly didn't see reality the way many other people do and the way I expected him to.

结束这次谈话时，我并不觉得酋长在否认现实，因为承认这一点让他感到不舒服，更像是他确实没有像许多其他人那样看待现实，也没有像我期望他那样看待现实。

One interesting finding from that police satisfaction survey, while black people were much less likely to say they were satisfied with the police, if they'd called the police in the last year and it went well, that disparity almost completely disappeared.

警察满意度调查中有一个有趣的发现，虽然黑人表示对警察感到满意的可能性要小得多，但如果他们在去年报警并且进展顺利，那么这种差异几乎完全消失。

If the resident initiated the contact, not the police, one positive experience could make a difference.

如果居民主动联系，而不是警察，一次积极的经历可能会产生影响。

Just want to pick it up a little bit here because the call was indicating that the female was shooting at her neighbor, so if that's the case, somebody was shot.

只是想在这里稍微了解一下，因为电话表明该女性正在向她的邻居开枪，所以如果是这样的话，有人被枪杀了。

Someone on the phone line calling to say she was haggling with her neighbor about parking spots--

有人打电话说她正在和邻居讨价还价停车位——

I'm in a squad car with Officer Richard Gordy speeding towards people who say their neighbor fired a gun at them.

我和理查德·戈迪警官坐在一辆警车里，朝那些声称邻居向他们开枪的人飞驰而去。

I'm going to tell you the story of the whole investigation of this potential shooting because first of all, it's just a good whodunit, and more important, it's black residents who called the police for help which, according to the survey at least, means if it goes well could totally change how the callers feel about the police.

我要告诉你这起潜在枪击事件的整个调查过程，因为首先，这只是一部很好的侦探小说，更重要的是，是黑人居民向警察求助，至少根据调查，这意味着如果进展顺利，可能会完全改变打电话者对警察的看法。

OK.

好的。

We're rolling up on the scene here, guys.

伙计们，我们正在现场。

We arrive at a small apartment building.

我们到达一栋小公寓楼。

It's around 9:30 in the morning on a Tuesday.

现在是星期二早上 9:30 左右。

Officer Gordy drives by the small parking area in the back to see if there are any bullet casings.

戈迪警官开车经过后面的小停车场，看看是否有弹壳。

There aren't.

没有。

He and another officer go inside the building and talk to people in there, but no one says they heard anything, and there's nothing coming up on Shot Spotter, so Officer Gordy sits in his squad car, contemplating his next move, until suddenly a green car pulls up right behind us and some people get out.

他和另一名警官走进大楼内，与里面的人交谈，但没有人说他们听到了任何声音，射击观察员也没有任何发现，所以戈迪警官坐在他的警车里，考虑他的下一步行动，直到一辆绿色汽车突然停在我们身后，一些人下了车。

[INAUDIBLE].

[听不清]。

Richard Gordy What's going on?

理查德·戈迪 发生了什么事？

It's a young couple.

这是一对年轻夫妇。

Thomas Well, this morning, the lady downstairs, her car was parked behind our car, and we had to move the car so we could get out the driveway, but then she got hostile.

托马斯 嗯，今天早上，楼下的那位女士，她的车停在我们的车后面，我们不得不把车移开，这样我们才能离开车道，但后来她变得充满敌意。

We ain't got no gun.

我们没有枪。

Richard Gordy All right.

理查德·戈迪 好吧。

She got hostile.

她变得充满敌意。

She started cussing me out.

她开始咒骂我。

She said, motherfucker, I ain't got to move my motherfucking car.

她说，混蛋，我不能挪动我那该死的车。

So she got mad, and I said, listen, we're trying to get out the parking lot to drop the kids off.

所以她很生气，我说，听着，我们正试图离开停车场让孩子们下车。

We had six kids with us.

我们有六个孩子。

And she said, motherfucker, I ain't got to do shit, and she slammed the door.

她说，混蛋，我没必要做任何事，然后她摔上了门。

She came back out with a gun.

她带着枪回来了。

And her--

而她——

This guy's name is Thomas.

这个人的名字叫托马斯。

He's with his girlfriend, Trina.

他和他的女朋友特里娜在一起。

Thomas says after the neighbor came out with a gun, she then threatened to kill him, backed him down the hallway and out the back door, where Trina was waiting in the car with the kids.

托马斯说，邻居拿着枪出来后，她威胁要杀了他，把他推到走廊上，从后门出去，特里娜和孩子们正在车里等着。

--I'm going to shoot you.

——我要开枪打死你。

So we're down there almost at the lot, and she shot at us by the car.

我们几乎就在停车场附近，她就在车旁向我们开枪。

She said, boom!

她说，繁荣！

And the kids [INAUDIBLE].

还有孩子们[听不清]。

Thomas She said, boom.

托马斯 她说，繁荣。

We was in the car.

我们在车里。

I hopped in the car because she pointed at me again.

我跳上车，因为她又指着我。

I said--

我说——

Where did she point at you with the gun?

她用枪指着你哪里？

She pointed it at me.

她指着我。

She's standing in the doorway like this.

她就这样站在门口。

She pointed the gun at me like this.

她就这样用枪指着我。

Officer Gordy told me that they frequently get calls claiming there's a gun when there really isn't, just because people know the cops have to respond more quickly to that.

戈迪警官告诉我，他们经常接到电话，声称有枪，但实际上没有，只是因为人们知道警察必须对此做出更快的反应。

Since there was no evidence of a shot fired, Gordy thought that might be what was going on here, so he separates Thomas from Trina and takes them alone into the police car.

由于没有任何开枪的证据，戈迪认为这可能就是这里发生的事情，因此他将托马斯和特丽娜分开，并将他们单独带进警车。

You don't have a gun?

你没有枪？

Thomas No, I don't have a gun.

托马斯 不，我没有枪。

I work at Walmart.

我在沃尔玛工作。

OK.

好的。

Listen to me real quick here, OK, because there's a lot going on here.

快听我说，好吧，因为这里发生了很多事情。

Very important that if she didn't shoot at you, just tell me she didn't shoot at you, but if she did, that's fine, too, but make sure you're telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

非常重要的是，如果她没有向你开枪，就告诉我她没有向你开枪，但如果她开枪了，那也很好，但要确保你说的是真话，全部真话，除了真话之外别无其他。

OK.

好的。

That's OK.

没关系。

Listen to me real quick here.

快听我说。

All I need to know is if she did or she didn't.

我只需要知道她是否做到了。

If she didn't, that's fine.

如果她不这样做，那也没关系。

If it's a dispute, we'll handle that.

如果有争议，我们会处理。

But if she really did, make sure you're telling the truth, because if you're not, you'll be charged, OK?

但如果她真的这么做了，请确保你说的是实话，因为如果你不说的话，你就会被指控，好吗？

So did she or did she not?

那么她是还是不是？

Because I'm getting ready to--

因为我正准备——

I can't say she-- if she shot directly at us, I'd have been hit, but she shot--

我不能说她——如果她直接向我们开枪，我就会被击中，但她开枪了——

The gun was fired.

枪响了。

Richard Gordy Look at this.

理查德·戈迪 看看这个。

Can I show you something here?

我可以在这里给你看一些东西吗？

You know what Shot Spotter is?

你知道什么是射击观察员吗？

This detects gunshots.

这可以检测枪声。

I've got no gunshots here.

我这里没有枪声。

That's why I'm asking you.

这就是我问你的原因。

This is technology.

这就是技术。

This is satellite technology.

这就是卫星技术。

Shots fired.

开枪了。

There's nothing here.

这里什么都没有。

That's why I'm asking you.

这就是我问你的原因。

The thing Gordy is not telling Thomas is that he doesn't think Shot Spotter covers the block we're on, but he doesn't tell him that because even though Thomas is the one who wanted the cops' help and says he was the victim, Gordy is trying to figure out if he's lying.

戈迪没有告诉托马斯的是，他认为射击观察员没有覆盖我们所在的街区，但他没有告诉他，因为尽管托马斯是那个想要警察帮助并说他是受害者的人，但戈迪正在试图弄清楚他是否在撒谎。

He's approaching Thomas as a potential victim and a potential suspect, and it gets to Thomas.

他把托马斯当作潜在的受害者和潜在的嫌疑人来接近，而托马斯也因此受到了影响。

He starts to backtrack a bit with his story.

他开始对他的故事进行一些回溯。

I don't know if there were bullets in the gun.

不知道枪里有没有子弹。

She pulled it and pop.

她拉了一下它，然后弹出来。

Did you hear a gunshot?

你听到枪声了吗？

Thomas Yes.

托马斯 是的。

Yes.

是的。

I heard a gunshot.

我听到一声枪响。

I was right there.

我当时就在那里。

She pointed the gun at me.

她用枪指着我。

She said, look, I'm going to kill you.

她说，你看，我要杀了你。

Meanwhile, inside the building, other officers have found the alleged shooter, a woman named Charday.

与此同时，在大楼内，其他警察找到了据称的枪手，一位名叫查迪的女子。

They didn't find Charday in her own apartment-- she was in one down the hall-- and she has quite a different story to tell about Thomas.

他们没有在查迪自己的公寓里找到她——她在走廊那头的一间公寓里——而且她有一个完全不同的关于托马斯的故事要讲。

Then he starts kicking my door, he starts kicking in my door and shaking my doorknob.

然后他开始踢我的门，他开始踢我的门并摇动我的门把手。

Why is he down here banging on your door?

他为什么在这里敲你的门？

OK.

好的。

Charday And I told him I was getting to put my clothes on and move my car, and he said, this bitch is not moving her car, so he got to kick in my door.

查迪 我告诉他我要穿上衣服并移动我的车，他说，这个婊子不移动她的车，所以他必须踢我的门。

[INAUDIBLE] arguing with my kids, calling them all kinds of ho's and bitches and he will whoop their ass, so I was scared for my kids to go outside because no telling if a person can harm my child.

[听不清] 和我的孩子们争吵，称他们为各种豪佬和婊子，他会大声喊他们的屁股，所以我很害怕我的孩子们出去，因为不知道一个人是否会伤害我的孩子。

OK.

好的。

There is alleged that a shot was fired today here.

据称今天这里发生了枪击事件。

I didn't hear no shots.

我没有听到枪声。

Police Officer 9 Did anyone have a gun?

警官 9 有人有枪吗？

No. No one had a gun.

没有，没有人有枪。

I don't even think they had a gun.

我什至不认为他们有枪。

Do you own a weapon?

你有武器吗？

Charday No, I do not.

查迪 不，我不知道。

I had my house searched before.

我的房子之前被搜查过。

You could search my house.

你可以搜查我的房子。

It's not about that, OK?

不是这个问题，好吗？

It's about getting to the bottom of this.

这是要弄清楚这件事的真相。

I don't want to have to go, get search warrant, tear your house upside down here looking for a pistol.

我不想去拿搜查令，把你的房子翻个底朝天地找手枪。

You can search it now.

你现在可以搜索一下。

Brian Reed For obvious reasons, officers are focusing on whether or not there was a gun involved in whatever happened during this dispute.

布莱恩·里德（Brian Reed）出于显而易见的原因，警方正在关注这场纠纷中是否涉及枪支。

Outside, the cops ask Thomas over and over, all different ways, if there had been a gun, if he'd seen a gun, if a gun had been fired.

在外面，警察用不同的方式一遍又一遍地询问托马斯，是否有枪，他是否看到过枪，是否有枪开过枪。

They do the same thing with Thomas's girlfriend, Trina.

他们对托马斯的女朋友特丽娜也做了同样的事情。

Again, these are the people who asked for the cops to help them.

同样，这些人请求警察帮助他们。

Officer Gordy takes Trina out back to the parking lot and has her act out how it went down.

戈迪警官将特丽娜带回停车场，让她表演事情是如何发生的。

Show me exactly where you were when you saw her fire.

告诉我你看到她开火时你在哪里。

I see smoke come out the gun.

我看到枪里冒出烟。

I didn't see where the--

我没看到哪里——

Did you ever hear her?

你听过她吗？

Did you ever hear the gunshot fired?

你听到过枪声吗？

Yeah.

是的。

It was like, bah!

就像，呸！

Richard Gordy Did you ever see a flash come out of the gun?

理查德·戈迪 你见过枪里发出闪光吗？

So that would be the direction that it went?

那么这就是它的发展方向吗？

Yeah, right here.

是的，就在这里。

My boyfriend was standing right there.

我男朋友就站在那里。

Don't you think if she fired, that something here would have been hit?

你不觉得如果她开枪的话，这里的东西就会被击中吗？

I don't know.

我不知道。

I ain't never seen no gun, so I don't know.

我没见过枪，所以我不知道。

At this point, everyone's pissed.

这一下，大家都生气了。

Trina is outside complaining to Thomas about how you can't even get help from the police, how they only care if someone's dead.

特里娜在外面向托马斯抱怨你甚至无法得到警察的帮助，他们只关心有人死了。

And inside, Charday is sitting handcuffed.

查迪戴着手铐坐在里面。

She's not arrested, but in handcuffs, as officers tear up her apartment looking for a gun.

她没有被捕，但被戴上了手铐，警察正在拆毁她的公寓寻找枪支。

Look at y'all.

看看你们。

I've got a brand new blanket on the floor.

我的地板上有一条全新的毯子。

Y'all got shit all over the floor.

地板上全是你们的屎。

Come on, now.

来吧，现在。

Y'all are doing it reckless.

你们都在鲁莽行事。

Shit.

拉屎。

Now I'm already letting y'all in my house searching.

现在我已经让你们来我家搜查了。

If I did have something, I wouldn't be hiding it in my damn kids' clothes.

如果我确实有什么东西，我不会把它藏在我该死的孩子们的衣服里。

I'd like to believe you, but after 22 years, you'd be shocked what I've found and where I've found it.

我愿意相信你，但 22 年后，你会对我的发现以及发现地点感到震惊。

As for the cops, they're having trouble figuring out the truth.

至于警察，他们很难弄清楚真相。

I heard the supervising officer on the scene, a sergeant, whisper to officer Gordy that he thought they should arrest both Charday and Thomas for fighting.

我听到现场的督察，一名中士，低声对戈迪警官说，他认为他们应该逮捕查迪和托马斯，因为他们打架了。

Almost an hour passed.

快一个小时过去了。

Inside, the officers continued to look through Charday's things, and then-- I'm not even sure if any of the cops noticed this-- a few tears began to run down Charday's face.

在里面，警察们继续检查查迪的东西，然后——我什至不确定是否有警察注意到这一点——几滴泪水开始从查迪的脸上流下来。

Not long after, in a hamper full of dirty clothes in the closet, they found a gun, a long black revolver, exactly what both Thomas and Trina had independently described.

不久之后，他们在衣柜里装满脏衣服的篮子里发现了一把枪，一把长长的黑色左轮手枪，正是托马斯和特里娜各自描述的。

It had one spent bullet.

它有一颗用过的子弹。

The cops arrested Charday for recklessly endangering safety by use of a firearm.

警察因鲁莽地使用枪支危害安全而逮捕了查迪。

Officer Gordy let her change out of her pajamas into warmer clothes, made sure her grandma was able to watch her kids, and then walked her out of the building in handcuffs.

戈迪警官让她脱下睡衣，换上更暖和的衣服，确保她的奶奶能够看管她的孩子，然后给她戴上手铐，送她走出大楼。

The kids are all taken care of and everything?

孩子们都照顾好了，一切都好吗？

It's OK that they're going to be with Grandma?

他们和奶奶在一起可以吗？

As all this was wrapping up, Trina called me over.

当这一切都结束时，特丽娜叫我过去。

She said she had something to say about the police.

她说关于警察她有话要说。

You see how they do us?

你知道他们是怎么对待我们的吗？

They don't believe us.

他们不相信我们。

Somebody could have been dead.

有人可能已经死了。

You feel me?

你感觉到我了吗？

They was trying to say we were a liar, I mean, not [INAUDIBLE] was a liar, but they were trying to make it seem like it wasn't nothing when it was something.

他们试图说我们是个骗子，我的意思是，不是[听不清]是个骗子，但他们试图让事情看起来好像没什么，但其实它很重要。

She shot at me and my boyfriend and five kids in the car.

她在车里向我和我的男朋友以及五个孩子开枪。

Trina pointed to a group of guys who had been hanging around the block while the investigation was going on.

特丽娜指着调查进行期间一直在街区闲逛的一群人。

She told me they were Charday's people, cousins, and that Charday had threatened that they would go after Trina and her boyfriend.

她告诉我他们是查迪的人，表兄弟，查迪曾威胁说他们会追捕特丽娜和她的男朋友。

That's how people end up dead.

人最终就是这样死掉的。

When you call the police, you're being a snitch for real.

当你报警的时候，你就真的是一个告密者了。

Police got to take cautions right then and there.

警察必须当场保持警惕。

If they don't, when they leave, people get killed like that.

如果他们不这样做，当他们离开时，人们就会像这样被杀。

You know what I'm saying?

你知道我在说什么吗？

That's what I'm telling the police.

这就是我要告诉警察的。

So you were worried that the police weren't going to believe you, they weren't going to find a gun.

所以你担心警察不会相信你，他们不会找到枪。

And they were going to leave and I was going to be here by myself and they were going to start some other stuff up.

他们要离开，我一个人待在这里，他们要开始一些其他的事情。

I mean, it seemed like it worked out, though.

我的意思是，不过，看起来似乎已经成功了。

Yeah, it did, but they just really weren't believing us today, [INAUDIBLE] the gun, but that's just history, anyway.

是的，确实如此，但他们今天真的不相信我们，[听不清]这把枪，但无论如何，这只是历史。

These white thugs, they judge you on how you look.

这些白人暴徒，他们根据你的外表来评判你。

Cops need to be skeptical during investigations.

警察在调查过程中需要保持怀疑。

It's built into their jobs.

这是他们工作中的一部分。

They aren't supposed to fully trust the person they're talking to.

他们不应该完全信任与他们交谈的人。

But of course, the person they're talking to can feel that.

但当然，与他们交谈的人可以感觉到这一点。

Trina and Thomas did.

特丽娜和托马斯做到了。

And it's upsetting if you've just been shot at to have the police come and interrogate you like you're the criminal.

如果你刚刚被枪击，警察就来审问你，就像你是罪犯一样，这会让你感到不安。

And on top of that, there's the history, all the times the cops haven't treated people fairly or worse.

最重要的是，还有历史，警察一直不公平地对待人们，甚至更糟。

That's always there, casting a shadow over every interaction.

它始终存在，给每一次互动蒙上阴影。

The cops feel like they're just doing their job the way they always do, but for Trina, it's hard not to wonder if the cops would be treating her this way if she was white.

警察们觉得他们只是像往常一样做自己的工作，但对特丽娜来说，很难不怀疑如果她是白人，警察是否会这样对待她。

One last story.

最后一个故事。

On April 30 last year, a white Milwaukee police officer shot and killed a black man named Dontre Hamilton.

去年4月30日，密尔沃基一名白人警察枪杀了一名名叫唐特·汉密尔顿的黑人。

He was sleeping in a plaza across from City Hall in the afternoon, and an employee from a nearby Starbucks called the police.

下午他睡在市政厅对面的广场上，附近星巴克的一名员工报了警。

Two officers checked on Hamilton and determined he wasn't doing anything wrong.

两名警官检查了汉密尔顿，确定他没有做错任何事。

Then a different cop, the beat cop for the area, Officer Christopher Manny, came and roused him and tried to pat him down.

然后另一名警察，该地区的巡警，克里斯托弗·曼尼警官过来，叫醒了他，并试图对他进行搜身。

This led to some kind of altercation.

这导致了某种争吵。

According to officer Manny and some witnesses, Hamilton grabbed his baton and hit him in the neck with it.

据曼尼警官和一些目击者称，汉密尔顿抓住了他的警棍，用它打了他的脖子。

Manny says he feared for his life.

曼尼说他担心自己的生命安全。

He shot Hamilton 14 times.

他向汉密尔顿开了 14 枪。

Hamilton was 31 years old and had suffered from schizophrenia.

汉密尔顿今年31岁，患有精神分裂症。

And unlike after the death of Derek Williams, the man in the back of a squad car who couldn't breathe, Chief Flynn fired officer Manny, though he didn't fire him for killing Hamilton.

与德里克·威廉姆斯死后不同的是，德里克·威廉姆斯坐在一辆警车后座上无法呼吸，弗林局长解雇了曼尼警官，尽管他并没有因为他杀死了汉密尔顿而解雇了他。

He fired him for doing a pat down that was against department policy and not in line with his training.

他解雇了他，因为他的搜身行为违反了部门政策，也不符合他接受的培训。

Flynn says Officer Manny could tell when he approached that Hamilton was in the midst of a mental health issue, which means he should have never tried to touch him.

弗林说，当曼尼警官走近时，他可以看出汉密尔顿正处于心理健康问题之中，这意味着他不应该试图碰他。

That's rule number one when dealing with someone in a mental health crisis.

这是与处于心理健康危机的人打交道时的第一条规则。

And by trying to pat him down, Flynn says, Manny created the situation in which he feared for his life and ended up killing Dontre Hamilton.

弗林说，曼尼试图对他进行搜身，造成了他担心自己生命安全的情况，最终杀死了唐特雷·汉密尔顿。

It was [INAUDIBLE].

这是[听不清]。

Man 2 It was murder.

男子2 这是谋杀。

It was murder!

这是谋杀！

In November, after Officer Manny appealed Chief Flynn's decision to fire him, the public was given a chance to comment before Milwaukee's fire and police commission.

11月，曼尼警官对弗林局长解雇他的决定提出上诉后，公众有机会在密尔沃基消防和警察委员会发表评论。

I was there.

我在那里。

People packed into a senior center gymnasium.

人们挤进老年中心体育馆。

On the right, members of the police union, almost entirely white.

右边是警察工会的成员，几乎全是白人。

On the left, Dontre Hamilton's family and supporters, largely black and brown.

左边是唐特雷·汉密尔顿的家人和支持者，主要是黑人和棕色人种。

For an hour, Chief Flynn and the commission sat silently on stage as supporters of Dontre Hamilton berated them.

弗林酋长和委员会静静地坐在台上一个小时，唐特·汉密尔顿的支持者斥责他们。

They were angry that Flynn had taken six months to make a decision about Manny's firing, that he'd announced it two days after Manny had filed for disability, which meant he could still get paid, and that under a new state law, what was supposed to be an independent investigation into Dontre Hamilton's death had been done by former Milwaukee police officers.

他们感到愤怒的是，弗林花了六个月的时间才对曼尼的解雇做出决定，他在曼尼提出残疾申请两天后才宣布这一决定，这意味着他仍然可以获得报酬，而且根据新的州法律，本应对唐特雷·汉密尔顿之死进行的独立调查是由前密尔沃基警察完成的。

On the other side, the police union members were furious that Flynn would even consider suspending Officer Manny, never mind firing him, for doing what union president Mike Crivello said any reasonable officer would do in that situation.

另一方面，警察工会成员对弗林甚至考虑停职曼尼警官感到愤怒，更不用说解雇他了，因为他做了工会主席迈克·克里韦洛所说的任何理性警官在这种情况下都会做的事情。

When the situation created the necessity for the use of a deadly force, PO Manny did what he had to.

当形势需要使用致命武力时，波·曼尼做了他必须做的事。

Certainly would have rather not have had to.

当然宁愿不必。

Certainly would have rather not have had to.

当然宁愿不必。

We are grateful he survived.

我们很感激他活了下来。

I am 100% confident that a [INAUDIBLE] tragedy.

我 100% 确信这是一场[听不清]的悲剧。

We are saddened by the loss of Mr. Hamilton.

我们对汉密尔顿先生的去世感到悲痛。

We have compassion for the family.

我们对家人充满同情心。

I am praying for peace for the Hamilton family.

我为汉密尔顿一家祈祷平安。

[INTERPOSING VOICES] Brian Reed There was one thing both sides could agree on.

[插话] Brian Reed 双方都同意一件事。

They both wanted Chief Flynn gone.

他们都希望弗林酋长离开。

Dontre Hamilton's supporters had issued a demand for his resignation, and the union had recently held a no confidence vote, where 99% of the cops who showed up had voted against the chief.

唐特雷·汉密尔顿的支持者要求他辞职，工会最近举行了不信任投票，99%到场的警察都投票反对这位局长。

At one point during the public comments, Chief Flynn began to look down at his lap.

在公开评论期间，弗林酋长有一次开始低头看着自己的腿。

He was checking this phone.

他正在检查这部手机。

People shouted at him, saying how dare he, saying he was being insensitive.

人们对他大喊大叫，说他怎么敢，说他麻木不仁。

After the meeting, in the lobby of the senior center as Flynn was on his way out, he addressed it with a scrum of reporters.

会议结束后，弗林在老人中心的大厅里准备离开，他在一群记者的簇拥下发表了讲话。

Well, I was on my phone, and yes, that's true.

嗯，我当时正在打电话，是的，确实如此。

I was following developments with a five-year-old little girl sitting on her dad's lap who had just got shot in the head by a drive by shooting.

我正在关注一个坐在她父亲腿上的五岁小女孩的事态发展，她的头部刚刚被枪击中。

And if some of the people here gave a good goddamn about the victimization of people in this community by crime, I'd take some of their invective more seriously.

如果这里的一些人对这个社区的人们因犯罪而受害表示关心，我会更认真地对待他们的一些谩骂。

The greatest racial disparity in the city of Milwaukee is getting shot and killed.

密尔沃基市最大的种族差异是被枪杀。

Hello.

你好。

80% of my homicide victims every year are African American.

每年我的凶杀案受害者中有 80% 是非裔美国人。

80% of our aggravated assault victims are African American.

80% 的严重攻击受害者是非裔美国人。

80% of our shooting victims who survive their shooting are African American.

枪击事件中幸存的受害者中 80% 是非裔美国人。

Now, they know all about the last three people that have been killed by the Milwaukee police department over the course of the last several years.

现在，他们知道了过去几年里被密尔沃基警察局杀害的最后三人的全部情况。

There's not one of them can name one of the last three homicide victims we've had in this city.

他们中没有人能说出这座城市最近发生的三名凶杀案受害者之一的名字。

Now, there's room for everybody to participate in fixing this police department, and I'm not pretending we're without sin, but this community is at risk, all right, and it's not because men and women in blue risk their lives protecting it.

现在，每个人都有空间参与修复这个警察部门，我并不是假装我们没有罪恶，但这个社区正处于危险之中，这并不是因为蓝衣男男女女冒着生命危险保护它。

It's at risk because we've got large numbers of high capacity quality firearms in the hands of remorseless criminals who don't care who they shoot.

它处于危险之中，因为我们有大量高容量高质量枪支掌握在冷酷无情的犯罪分子手中，而他们并不关心他们射杀的是谁。

Now, I'm leaving here to go to that scene.

现在，我要离开这里，前往那个场景。

And I take it personally, OK?

我认为这是针对我个人的，好吗？

We're going up there and there's a bunch of cops processing a scene of a dead kid.

我们要去那里，那里有一群警察正在处理一个死去的孩子的场景。

They're the ones that are going to take the risks to their life to try to clean this thing up, all right?

他们是那些冒着生命危险试图清理这件事的人，好吗？

We are responsible for the things we get wrong and we take action.

我们对自己犯的错误负责，并采取行动。

We've arrested cops, we've fired cops, and so on.

我们逮捕了警察，解雇了警察，等等。

But when you start getting yelled at for reading the updates of the kid that got shot, yeah, you take it personal, OK?

但当你因为阅读被枪杀的孩子的最新动态而开始被骂时，是的，你认为这是针对你个人的，好吗？

Now no offense, but I'm going up there now.

现在无意冒犯，但我现在要去那里。

If you're going to repair the relationship between African Americans and the police, at least the way Chief Flynn is trying to, it's going to happen in the course of thousands of encounters between cops and black residents, thousands of encounters that need to go well, and even if they do, each one still only brings you one small step closer to building trust.

如果你想修复非裔美国人和警察之间的关系，至少按照弗林警长正在努力的方式，这将在警察和黑人居民之间的数千次接触中发生，成千上万次接触需要顺利进行，即使他们成功了，每一次也只会让你离建立信任更近一步。

It's a game of inches.

这是一场寸步难行的游戏。

Right now, according to that University of Wisconsin survey, 63% of black Milwaukeeans say they're satisfied with police, versus 83% of white Milwaukeeans.

目前，根据威斯康星大学的调查，63% 的密尔沃基黑人表示他们对警察感到满意，而密尔沃基白人的这一比例为 83%。

Remember Trina, the woman whose neighbor shot at her and her boyfriend?

还记得特丽娜（Trina）吗？那个邻居向她和男友开枪的女人？

On paper, her case looks like a success for the Milwaukee police.

从表面上看，密尔沃基警方对她的案件似乎取得了成功。

They arrested the shooter, confiscated the gun, and on top of that, they helped Trina out, offered to stand guard while Trina and her boyfriend moved out of the apartment building that day to make sure the neighbor's cousins didn't do anything to them.

他们逮捕了枪手，没收了枪，最重要的是，他们帮助了特丽娜，并主动提出在那天特丽娜和她的男朋友搬出公寓楼时站岗，以确保邻居的表兄弟不会对他们做任何事。

Trina thanked the officers before they left, and still, when we talked about if she trusted the Milwaukee PD, she said--

特丽娜在警察离开前向他们表示感谢，但当我们谈到她是否信任密尔沃基警察局时，她说——

I don't really.

我真的不知道。

It's a 50/50 chance, you know what I'm saying?

这是 50/50 的机会，你知道我在说什么吗？

50/50.

50/50。

50/50 chance of what?

50/50 的机会是什么？

Trina Like sometimes they help people, sometimes they wouldn't.

Trina 就像有时他们会帮助别人，有时却不会。

You know what I'm saying?

你知道我在说什么吗？

That was the grace of god that they found that gun.

他们找到那把枪真是上帝的恩典。

Sometimes they'll help you and sometimes they won't?

有时他们会帮助你，有时却不会？

Yeah.

是的。

They won't.

他们不会。

Brian Reed Trina is not the only black Milwaukeean who said something like this to me.

布莱恩·里德·特里纳并不是唯一一个对我说过类似话的密尔沃基黑人。

I asked one woman what she thought of the Milwaukee PD and she put it like this.

我问一位女士对密尔沃基警察局的看法，她是这样说的。

You just don't know what to expect.

你只是不知道会发生什么。

That stayed with me.

那件事一直伴随着我。

She wasn't saying all cops are racist or the whole force is corrupt.

她并不是说所有警察都是种族主义者或整个警察队伍都腐败。

She was saying something much more measured, that the police are unpredictable, which means at least this woman felt that when you have an interaction with a cop, you can never be sure what you're going to get.

她说的是更谨慎的话，警察是不可预测的，这意味着至少这个女人觉得，当你与警察互动时，你永远无法确定你会得到什么。

Brian Reed is one of the producers of our program.

布莱恩·里德是我们节目的制作人之一。

Ben Calhoun helped produce that story.

本·卡尔霍恩帮助制作了这个故事。

Next week, some cities where policing is so different from Milwaukee in the second week of our series.

下周，一些城市的治安与我们系列第二周的密尔沃基有很大不同。

Our program was produced today by Brian Reed with Sean Cole, Stephanie [INAUDIBLE], Chana Joffe-Walt, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.

今天我们的节目由 Brian Reed 与 Sean Cole、Stephanie [听不清]、Chana Joffe-Walt、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。

Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.

我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。

Editing by Joel Lovell.

乔尔·洛弗尔编辑。

Production help from Simon Adler.

西蒙·阿德勒 (Simon Adler) 提供制作帮助。

Seth Lind is our operations director.

塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。

Emily Condon's our production manager.

艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。

Elise Bergerson's our office manager.

埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的办公室经理。

Adrianne Mathiowetz runs our website.

阿德琳娜·马修韦茨 (Adrianne Mathiowetz) 负责运营我们的网站。

Elna Baker scout stories for our show.

艾尔娜·贝克 (Elna Baker) 为我们的节目寻找故事。

Research help from Michelle Harris, Christopher Swetala, and Ben Anastas.

米歇尔·哈里斯 (Michelle Harris)、克里斯托弗·斯维塔拉 (Christopher Swetala) 和本·阿纳斯塔斯 (Ben Anastas) 提供的研究帮助。

Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddis.

Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddis 提供音乐帮助。

[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, thisamericanlife.org.

[致谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。

This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX.

《This American Life》由 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。

the Public Radio Exchange.

公共广播电台。

Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.

一如既往地感谢我们计划的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。

You know, he finally met a few of our listeners at a WBEZ event, and I don't know what he was thinking.

你知道，他终于在 WBEZ 活动上见到了我们的一些听众，我不知道他在想什么。

They were very different from what he expected.

他们与他的预期有很大不同。

I see families, people pushing their babies.

我看到很多家庭，人们推着他们的孩子。

It shocked me.

这让我很震惊。

I was in shock.

我很震惊。

I'm Ira Glass, back next week with part two of our series on policing and more stories of This American Life.

我是艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass），下周我们将带来关于警务的系列第二部分以及《美国生活》的更多故事。

This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.

《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。