542: Wait—Do You Have The Map? - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #542 | February 3, 2023 542: Wait—Do You Have The Map?
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 542 集 | 2023 年 2 月 3 日 542：等等——你有地图吗？
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass In New York, like in lots of cities, you can call 3-1-1 for help with city services, but also for all kinds of other stuff.
序言 Ira Glass 在纽约，就像在许多城市一样，您可以致电 3-1-1 寻求城市服务方面的帮助，还可以寻求各种其他方面的帮助。
The most common calls they get are about landlords not heating apartments properly.
他们接到的最常见的电话是关于房东没有正确给公寓供暖的。
But they'll also help you get hold of a W-2 form you need from 2009.
但他们还会帮助您获取 2009 年所需的 W-2 表格。
They'll tell you what streets will be blocked off for a presidential visit, connect you with the gas company, and a stunning array of other things-- 55,000 calls a day.
他们会告诉您总统访问期间哪些街道将被封锁，为您联系天然气公司，以及一系列令人惊叹的其他信息——每天接到 55,000 个电话。
The woman said that her fiance died in their bed, and she was pregnant, and she wanted to identify his DNA in order to get social security benefits.
该女子称，她的未婚夫死在了他们的床上，而她已经怀孕了，她想鉴定他的DNA，以便获得社会保障福利。
So she wanted to know who to contact.
所以她想知道该联系谁。
She got a referral to family court, which can establish paternity, to the Social Security office to find out how to get the benefits, and a legal referral to the New York City Bar Association.
她被转介到可以确定亲子关系的家庭法庭，到社会保障办公室了解如何获得福利，并被转介到纽约市律师协会。
Here's 311 operator Angelique Pantoja.
这是 311 接线员 Angelique Pantoja。
Well, a woman was cleaning her garage and she moved a box, and there was a crocodile.
好吧，一个女人正在清理她的车库，她搬了一个盒子，里面有一条鳄鱼。
So I had to ask her, like a crocodile, like, big, with-- she's like, yeah, it's going snap, snap at me.
所以我不得不问她，就像鳄鱼一样，大，她就像，是的，它会突然向我猛冲过来。
She says that was an easy one, of course-- call Animal Care and Control.
她说这当然很简单——打电话给动物护理和控制中心。
But she also helped with this call.
但她也帮忙打了这个电话。
I had a woman who was-- I guess she had an unruly teenager.
我有一个女人，我猜她有一个不守规矩的青少年。
Even on the phone they were arguing.
甚至在电话里，他们还在争吵。
And she just couldn't take it.
她就是无法接受。
She couldn't take the disrespect, and she wanted help.
她无法忍受这种不尊重，她需要帮助。
That woman was given a referral for counseling services.
该妇女被转介接受咨询服务。
The way all this works is that the operators sit at computers with a massive database of answers on thousands of different topics.
所有这一切的工作原理是，操作员坐在计算机前，计算机上有数千个不同主题的答案的庞大数据库。
They can help you locate where your car was towed.
他们可以帮助您找到汽车被拖走的位置。
They can explain the changes in your property tax.
他们可以解释您的财产税的变化。
They can help you find something you left in a New York City taxi, which, by the way, they can do even without the cab number now that taxis have GPS.
他们可以帮助您找到您落在纽约市出租车上的东西，顺便说一句，既然出租车有 GPS，即使没有出租车号码，他们也可以做到这一点。
But lots of people call for things that are not in the database.
但很多人要求的东西数据库中没有。
You see a UFO?
你看到不明飞行物吗？
311 has no answers for you-- not in the database.
311 没有为您提供答案——数据库中没有。
You drop your keys in the sewer grate at the corner?
你把钥匙掉在角落的下水道格栅里了吗？
New York City is not going to help you with that one, either.
纽约市也不会在这方面帮助你。
And people call with all kinds of stuff.
人们打电话时会带着各种各样的东西。
I know a guy.
我认识一个人。
He and his wife were in a taxicab riding home late at night from a Halloween party.
深夜，他和妻子参加完万圣节派对，乘坐出租车回家。
He was dressed as a Teletubby.
他打扮得像个天线宝宝。
She was a sexy creature from the deep sea-- fishnet stockings, short skirt, fake seaweed.
她是来自深海的性感生物——网袜、短裙、假海藻。
They got to their apartment.
他们到了他们的公寓。
It's late at night.
已经是深夜了。
His wife told him, get out.
他的妻子告诉他，滚出去。
She would continue in the cab.
她会继续在出租车里。
She wanted to spend the night elsewhere.
她想在别处过夜。
So he got out of the cab.
于是他下了出租车。
And not sure exactly what to do, he dialed 311.
由于不确定到底该怎么做，他拨打了 311。
Operator picks up.
接线员接听。
He says, I don't know where my wife is.
他说，我不知道我的妻子在哪里。
The operator asked, is she missing?
接线员问，她失踪了吗？
He could be connected to the police.
他可能与警方有联系。
No, no, the guy says.
不，不，那家伙说。
And at that point, he realizes.
就在那时，他意识到了。
Right, she's been staying out a lot.
是的，她经常在外面呆着。
Right.
正确的。
She's having an affair.
她有外遇。
He didn't know exactly what it was that he wanted to get from 311.
他不知道自己到底想从311得到什么。
It's just he found himself suddenly not sure what had happened to him or how he got there.
只是他突然发现自己不知道自己发生了什么事，也不知道自己是如何到达那里的。
He had never been in this situation.
他从来没有遇到过这种情况。
It wasn't clear what to do.
目前还不清楚该怎么做。
We get those types of calls because we are known for a place that gives answers.
我们接到此类电话是因为我们以提供答案而闻名。
So I guess, why not try 311?
所以我想，为什么不试试311呢？
I've had a caller-- she called to speak about her boyfriend.
我接到一个电话——她打电话来谈论她的男朋友。
She felt like her boyfriend was going to leave her because he was a model and she just felt like he had a lot of attention from other women.
她觉得她的男朋友会离开她，因为他是一名模特，而她只是觉得他受到了其他女性的很多关注。
So I would try to offer her different services, like, maybe some counseling for their relationship, and she didn't want it.
所以我会尝试为她提供不同的服务，例如，也许为他们的关系提供一些咨询，但她不想要。
She just wanted to speak to a 311 rep.
她只是想和 311 代表通话。
She's like, no, I don't want to speak to anyone else.
她说，不，我不想和其他人说话。
I just want to speak to 311.
我只想跟 311 通话。
And there's nothing in our database that we use to say OK.
我们的数据库中没有任何内容可以用来表示“OK”。
Well, if he's doing this, this is what you should do.
好吧，如果他这样做，这就是你应该做的。
Natashia found herself off the grid, so she improvised.
娜塔西娅发现自己脱离了网格，所以她即兴发挥。
She's not allowed to give personal advice, which she told the woman.
她告诉那位女士，她不被允许提供个人建议。
So she basically said the only thing she could say in this situation that they did not train her for-- I understand.
所以她基本上说了在这种情况下她唯一能说的话，他们没有训练她——我理解。
She said I understand over and over.
她一遍又一遍地说我明白。
The woman kept her on the phone for 45 minutes, and it seemed to help.
这位女士让她打电话了 45 分钟，这似乎有所帮助。
I think she felt better after she got off the phone.
我想她挂完电话后感觉好多了。
How do you know?
你怎么知道？
Natashia Townsend She said thank you.
娜塔西娅·汤森德 她说谢谢。
She said thank you for listening to me.
她说谢谢你听我说话。
That's really what it was.
事实就是如此。
She really just wanted to talk.
她其实只是想说话。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
嗯，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这是《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today, on our program, what happens when you find yourself off the map, far from all the normal things you're used to and that you do, and things are way, way more extreme than they were for this 311 operator.
今天，在我们的节目中，当你发现自己脱离了地图，远离你习惯和所做的所有正常事情时，会发生什么，而且事情比这个 311 接线员更加极端。
You are lost in some situation you've never been in, and you've never heard of anybody else in, either, and you have to improvise, which either brings out a resource, heroic side of people, or just the opposite.
你迷失在一些你从未经历过的情况下，你也从未听说过其他人，你必须即兴发挥，这要么会激发人们的资源、英雄的一面，要么恰恰相反。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One-- Marriage of Inconvenience.
第一幕——不便的婚姻。
This first story is about a couple who are in a relationship that is unlike the homes that either of them grew up in, unlike, actually, anything in either of their experiences.
第一个故事是关于一对夫妇的，他们的关系不同于他们长大的家庭，实际上也不同于他们的经历。
They're married, and it's a prison marriage.
他们结婚了，而且是监狱婚姻。
It's the guy who's the prisoner, and was a prisoner when they met.
那个人就是囚犯，他们见面时他就是囚犯。
If you're listening to our program on the podcast or on the internet, I just want to give you a heads-up.
如果您正在播客或互联网上收听我们的节目，我只想提醒您一下。
There's cursing in here that we have not beeped.
这里有我们没有发出嘟嘟声的咒骂声。
If you prefer a beeped version of our program, you can hear that at our website, thisamericanlife.org.
如果您喜欢我们节目的嘟嘟声版本，您可以在我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org 上听到。
Prison marriages aren't so unusual.
监狱婚姻并不罕见。
They happen.
它们发生了。
Michael Jewell was serving out a life sentence for murder in Texas.
迈克尔·朱厄尔 (Michael Jewell) 因谋杀罪被判无期徒刑，正在德克萨斯州服刑。
Joan Covici was a widow living in Dallas who volunteered with the ACLU.
琼·科维奇是一位住在达拉斯的寡妇，她是美国公民自由联盟的志愿者。
They never thought that Michael would get out, and they were OK with that.
他们从没想过迈克尔会出去，但他们对此表示同意。
But sometimes they'd talk about what it would be like if he were released, to spend time together at her summer cabin in New Hampshire, go fishing together, be married for real.
但有时他们会谈论如果他被释放会是什么样子，一起在新罕布什尔州的避暑小屋里度过时光，一起去钓鱼，真正结婚。
And five years into their relationship, when Michael decided to appeal his case, in the very unlikely event that he'd win, Joan wanted to be prepared, so she drew up a contract.
他们交往五年后，当迈克尔决定对他的案件提出上诉时，万一他赢了，琼希望做好准备，所以她起草了一份合同。
We made kind of a pact-- and I still have that document-- that we would try it for two years.
我们达成了一项协议——我仍然保留着那份文件——我们将尝试两年。
Whenever he got out, we would try it for two years.
每当他出来时，我们都会尝试两年。
And if we weren't happy after two years, that we would separate.
如果两年后我们不幸福，我们就会分开。
Joan keeps the contract in her desk at home.
琼把合同放在家里的办公桌上。
"We, the undersigned, agree to the following arrangements, following--"
“我们，以下签名者，同意以下安排，遵循——”
The contract explicitly lays out all the very practical things that usually go unspoken in a relationship.
合同明确列出了关系中通常不言而喻的所有非常实际的事情。
Joan agrees that she'll provide Michael with a place to live and money for food and clothes.
琼同意她将为迈克尔提供住所以及食物和衣服的钱。
Michael agrees to take care of Joan, to be her companion.
迈克尔同意照顾琼，成为她的伴侣。
The contract is like a couple's fantasy of the most ordinary details of everyday life together.
这份合同就像一对情侣对日常生活中最普通细节的幻想。
It gets amazingly specific.
它变得非常具体。
Here are some of Michael's duties.
以下是迈克尔的一些职责。
"House chores-- 50% participation in cooking, cleaning, trash-takeout, bed-making, and minor household repairs.
“家务劳动——50%参与做饭、清洁、倒垃圾、铺床和小型家庭维修。
Outside chores-- yard and garden maintenance, dog-walking, shopping, driving, and car and air travel assistance.
户外杂务——庭院和花园维护、遛狗、购物、驾驶、汽车和航空旅行协助。
Here follow some specific obligations for Joan.
以下是琼的一些具体义务。
House chores, 50% participation in cooking, cleaning, bed-making, and laundry, providing--"
家务劳动，50% 参与做饭、清洁、铺床和洗衣，提供——”
Without prison, it's unlikely that Michael and Joan would have ever met in the first place.
如果没有监狱，迈克尔和琼一开始就不可能相遇。
She's 16 years older than he is, from a completely different world.
她比他大16岁，来自完全不同的世界。
Michael never knew much more than crime.
迈克尔除了犯罪之外一无所知。
When he was about seven, his father had him steal a pair of shoes.
当他七岁左右的时候，他的父亲让他偷了一双鞋。
Things went downhill from there.
事情从那里开始走下坡路。
Michael robbed grocery stores, cracked safes, he was in and out of prison.
迈克尔抢劫了杂货店，破解了保险箱，他进出监狱。
Then, in 1970, he killed a man during a robbery.
然后，在 1970 年，他在一次抢劫中杀死了一名男子。
We spooked him, you know?
我们吓到了他，你知道吗？
We scared the hell out of him.
我们把他吓坏了。
And the wind was howling, and I was standing in front of him trying to tell him this is a robbery.
狂风呼啸，我站在他面前试图告诉他这是一场抢劫。
Cooperate, and you won't get hurt.
合作，你就不会受伤。
And he said, oh, oh, and made a motion like Matt Dillon going for the draw.
他说，哦，哦，然后做了一个像马特·狄龙一样去抽签的动作。
And my partner thought he was going for a pistol and shot him in the back.
我的搭档以为他要拿手枪，就朝他背后开了一枪。
And when I heard the shot, just reflexively, I shot him in the chest.
当我听到枪声时，我条件反射地朝他的胸部开了一枪。
And when he hit ground, I knelt down and searched him, and he didn't even have a weapon.
当他落地时，我跪下搜身，他连武器都没有。
What he was trying to do was give us the bank sack.
他想做的就是把银行解雇。
Michael was caught and convicted, which, in Texas, means he wound up on death row.
迈克尔被捕并被定罪，这在德克萨斯州意味着他最终被关进死牢。
He was 23.
那年他23岁。
Joan's life in her early 20s was about as far from rural Texas as you can get in this country.
琼 20 岁出头的生活与德克萨斯州乡村的生活差不多是这个国家最遥远的地方。
She lived in Cambridge, Massachusetts, was married to a PhD student in English literature at Harvard named Pascal Covici, Jr. Pascal's father was the editor and lifelong friend of John Steinbeck, which meant that sometimes Joan got to go to intimate parties in New York City full of literary heavyweights.
她住在马萨诸塞州剑桥，嫁给了哈佛大学英国文学博士生小帕斯卡·科维奇。帕斯卡的父亲是约翰·斯坦贝克的编辑和终生朋友，这意味着琼有时可以参加纽约市充满文学重量级人物的亲密聚会。
Saul was often there-- Saul Bellow and Arthur.
索尔经常在那里——索尔·贝娄和亚瑟。
Arthur Miller?
阿瑟·米勒？
Joan Covici Arthur Miller.
琼·科维奇·阿瑟·米勒。
When Arthur married Marilyn, of course, then everybody wanted to go to the dinner party.
当然，当亚瑟与玛丽莲结婚时，每个人都想参加晚宴。
She was quiet.
她很安静。
Didn't talk a whole lot, but she was so gorgeous.
话不多，但她真的很漂亮。
We all just sat there and looked at her and were happy that she was there.
我们都坐在那里看着她，很高兴她在那里。
The men did most of the talking.
大部分的谈话都是男人们做的。
And I was also quiet at those parties too.
我在那些聚会上也很安静。
I didn't feel as comfortable.
我感觉不太舒服。
They were often talking about things that were not familiar to me-- about their work and politics.
他们经常谈论我不熟悉的事情——关于他们的工作和政治。
I had the baby by then, and that was taking up most of my attention.
那时我已经有了孩子，这占据了我大部分的注意力。
Joan's marriage to Pascal was pretty standard for the time.
琼与帕斯卡的婚姻在当时是相当标准的。
He was the breadwinner.
他是养家糊口的人。
She was the homemaker.
她是家庭主妇。
Joan raised two kids, eventually became a schoolteacher.
琼抚养了两个孩子，最终成为一名教师。
And then, many years later, when Joan was 66, Pascal died of cancer.
许多年后，当琼 66 岁时，帕斯卡因癌症去世。
After his death, she got more involved with volunteer work she'd been doing at the local ACLU chapter.
他去世后，她更多地参与了她在当地美国公民自由联盟分会所做的志愿者工作。
She answered prison mail and started corresponding with several inmates to find out about conditions in the Texas prison system, which is how she'd first met Michael.
她回复了监狱邮件，并开始与几名囚犯通信，了解德克萨斯州监狱系统的情况，这就是她第一次见到迈克尔的方式。
He was 52, nearly 30 years into his prison sentence, and he sent a letter that found its way to Joan.
当时他 52 岁，入狱已近 30 年，他给琼寄了一封信。
It says, "Dear friends, I am a prisoner on the Eastham Unit of the Texas prison system.
上面写着：“亲爱的朋友们，我是德克萨斯州监狱系统伊斯特汉姆监狱的一名囚犯。
I came to prison with the death penalty in 1970.
1970年，我被判处死刑入狱。
I stayed on death row--"
我一直待在死牢里——”
There was nothing special about Michael's letter.
迈克尔的信没什么特别的。
He was asking about getting involved with anti-death penalty work.
他询问是否参与反死刑工作。
His own death sentence had been commuted to life in 1973.
1973年，他的死刑被改判为无期徒刑。
And he'd become something of an activist in prison-- heavily involved in prison reform issues.
他已经成为监狱中的积极分子——积极参与监狱改革问题。
Joan read his letter and dutifully wrote back.
琼读了他的信并尽职尽责地回信。
Then Michael wrote back, then Joan wrote, and so on.
然后迈克尔回信，然后琼回信，等等。
Michael and Joan wrote to each other almost every single day for 10 years.
十年来，迈克尔和琼几乎每天都给对方写信。
Michael was self-taught, but his letters showed how much he'd read, including most of John Steinbeck.
迈克尔是自学成才的，但他的信显示了他读过多少书，包括约翰·斯坦贝克的大部分作品。
And his intellect impressed Joan.
他的才智给琼留下了深刻的印象。
She was constantly communicating with prisoners, 5 to 10 at a time, but Michael's letters stood out.
她不断地与囚犯沟通，一次与 5 到 10 名囚犯沟通，但迈克尔的信脱颖而出。
He was a good writer.
他是一位好作家。
Take this letter he wrote to Joan after he intentionally injured himself-- cut his own Achilles tendon to protest work duty conditions.
以他故意伤害自己——割伤自己的跟腱以抗议工作条件后写给琼的这封信为例。
"I had grown to love my body without narcissism, almost as a friend a faithful companion.
“我已经不再自恋地爱自己的身体，几乎就像朋友、忠实的伴侣一样。
It was, after all, my only refuge from the filth and the stench and the scorn.
毕竟，这是我躲避肮脏、恶臭和蔑视的唯一避难所。
As I sit there contemplating the harsh task at hand, I felt like a traitor, as though I were committing the highest treason.
当我坐在那里思考手头的艰巨任务时，我感觉自己像个叛徒，好像我正在犯下最高的叛国罪。
It was most difficult to see a higher good in"--
看到更高的善是最困难的”——
To me, he looked like James Cagney.
对我来说，他看起来像詹姆斯·卡格尼。
He just was a perfect James Cagney, except that he didn't have very good teeth.
他就是一个完美的詹姆斯·卡格尼，只是他的牙齿不太好。
He had just a few teeth on the bottom.
他的底部只有几颗牙齿。
So I saw him, and he was James Cagney, and I used to love James Cagney in his movies.
所以我看到了他，他就是詹姆斯·卡格尼，我曾经很喜欢詹姆斯·卡格尼的电影。
But again, it wasn't love at first sight or anything like that because I'm not that sort of person.
但再说一次，这不是一见钟情或类似的东西，因为我不是那种人。
I go for the mind first.
我首先追求心灵。
And he had a wonderful mind.
他有一个很棒的头脑。
And we just had lots to talk about.
我们有很多话要谈。
It wasn't all intellectual.
这并不全是智力上的。
In his letters, Michael started using pet names for Joan.
迈克尔在信中开始使用琼的昵称。
He'd call her Sweet Baby Joan and other things, too.
他还会叫她“甜蜜宝贝琼”之类的。
"Dear noble little squaw, sweet baby." "Dearest finger-licking-good sweet baby." "Dear honey butt." [LAUGHS]
“亲爱的高贵的小女人，可爱的宝贝。” “最亲爱的舔手指的好可爱的宝贝。” “亲爱的宝贝屁股。” [笑]
Christopher Rhoads In her letters, Joan loosened up, as well.
克里斯托弗·罗兹（Christopher Rhoads） 在信中，琼也放松了。
"I think I'll fix a big scotch and go sit in the back yard and smoke a cigarette and try to get you into perspective.
“我想我会调制一杯大杯苏格兰威士忌，然后去后院坐下来，抽根烟，试着让你了解情况。
God, I wish you were here to spank." (LAUGHING) Can I stop there?
天哪，我希望你能在这里打屁股。” （笑）我可以就此打住吗？
Every Sunday afternoon, Joan would drive the few hours to visit Michael in prison-- a book on tape playing on the car stereo.
每个周日下午，琼都会开车几个小时去监狱探望迈克尔——汽车音响上播放着一本书的磁带。
She'd stay at the same fancy bed and breakfast near the prison, became friends with the people who ran the place, and then the rest of the week, she got to go back to her own life and did what she wanted to do.
她会住在监狱附近的同一家豪华住宿加早餐酒店，与经营这个地方的人成为朋友，然后在本周剩下的时间里，她必须回到自己的生活，做她想做的事。
It was romance, but on her terms-- something she'd never experienced.
这是浪漫，但以她的方式来说——这是她从未经历过的。
Michael and Joan would hug and kiss discreetly on their contact visits.
迈克尔和琼在接触拜访时会谨慎地拥抱和亲吻。
This was all in a public visiting room.
这一切都是在公共探视室进行的。
There was nothing conjugal about what was going on.
所发生的事情与夫妻无关。
The limits of their time together were clear, and Joan was happy with the arrangement.
他们在一起的时间很清楚，琼对这样的安排很满意。
I kind of liked being alone.
我有点喜欢独处。
It's very comfortable for a woman to know that somebody loves her, and yet, she has all this freedom to live her own life.
对于一个女人来说，知道有人爱她是一件很舒服的事情，但她也有足够的自由过自己的生活。
Michael and Joan knew that, no matter how close they became, they'd never really be together.
迈克尔和琼知道，无论他们变得多么亲密，他们永远不会真正在一起。
Rarely, if ever, does a former death row inmate get paroled in Texas.
在德克萨斯州，前死囚获得假释的情况很少见。
So really, what they had was their letters.
事实上，他们拥有的是他们的信。
Here's another one from Joan.
这是琼的另一封信。
"A song that has always torn my heart is the 'September Song.' You remember-- 'And these few precious days I'll spend with you.' "
“一首一直让我心碎的歌曲是‘九月之歌’。你记得——“这几天宝贵的日子我会和你一起度过。” ”
[MUSIC - WILLIE NELSON, "SEPTEMBER SONG"]
[音乐 - 威利·纳尔逊，“九月之歌”]
"And especially in our case, the days are few, and we may never spend them really together.
“尤其是对我们来说，日子很少，我们可能永远不会真正在一起度过。
We must get used to this reality and not ruin what years remain.
我们必须习惯这个现实，不要毁掉剩下的岁月。
I love you, precious Michael-- SBJ"-- Sweet Baby Joan.
我爱你，亲爱的迈克尔——SBJ”——甜蜜宝贝琼。
[MUSIC - WILLIE NELSON, "SEPTEMBER SONG"]
[音乐 - 威利·纳尔逊，“九月之歌”]
In 2005, they got married, but that was mainly so that they wouldn't lose their visitation rights.
2005年，他们结婚了，但这主要是为了不失去探视权。
The prison had denied them visits before.
监狱此前曾拒绝他们探视。
And they lived this way, happily, for five years.
就这样，他们幸福地生活了五年。
Then, in June 2010, Michael was summoned by prison authorities.
随后，2010 年 6 月，迈克尔被监狱当局传唤。
He walked into a room, and an official came to speak to him.
他走进一个房间，一名官员走过来与他交谈。
He said, are you Jewell?
他说，你是朱厄尔吗？
I said, yeah.
我说，是的。
He said, here, I got a present for you.
他说，我给你准备了一份礼物。
And he handed me a sheet of paper.
他递给我一张纸。
And I started reading it, and I had made parole.
我开始读它，然后我就获得了假释。
Michael was confused.
迈克尔很困惑。
Just a month or so before, he'd gone before the parole board and been denied, just as he had been many times before.
就在大约一个月前，他曾向假释委员会提出申请，但遭到拒绝，就像他之前多次遇到的情况一样。
I think I stopped breathing for about two or three minutes.
我想我停止了呼吸大约两三分钟。
I didn't really-- I was kind of-- my first reaction was, this has got to be a fucking mistake, you know?
我真的没有——我是有点——我的第一反应是，这一定是一个他妈的错误，你知道吗？
It was unheard of, you know?
这是闻所未闻的，你知道吗？
Something like that happens once every 10 years in prison to somebody.
类似的事情每十年就会发生一次。
Michael has no real idea why he was paroled.
迈克尔并不知道自己为何被假释。
He thinks it might have had something to do with a lawsuit he filed against the prison system, saying that it was understaffed and unsafe.
他认为这可能与他针对监狱系统提起的诉讼有关，称监狱系统人手不足且不安全。
Releasing Michael made the lawsuit go away.
释放迈克尔使诉讼结束。
I think it was a surprise to both of us when he suddenly was put on the street.
我想当他突然被扔到街上时，我们俩都感到惊讶。
He was scared at the thought of coming out.
一想到要出来，他就感到害怕。
He wasn't prepared for it.
他没有做好准备。
Neither one of us was, really.
我们俩都不是，真的。
I wanted him home, and I knew it was going to be hard.
我想让他回家，我知道这会很困难。
I knew it was going to be difficult.
我知道这会很困难。
And I knew that the chances of the relationship lasting were very bad.
我知道这种关系维持下去的机会非常渺茫。
But I had agreed to try it, and so--
但我同意尝试一下，所以——
Do you think that you would have gotten into the relationship as you did and to the degree that you did if you knew that he was actually going to get out one day?
如果你知道他有一天真的会离开，你认为你会像现在这样进入这段关系并达到这样的程度吗？
I can't answer that.
我无法回答这个问题。
I really don't know.
我真的不知道。
Now, with Michael about to be released-- the contract we'd talked about at the beginning of this story, the one that laid out all the shared household and relationship duties should Michael, a convicted murderer, ever get paroled-- that contract was about to be put into effect.
现在，随着迈克尔即将被释放——我们在故事开始时讨论过的合同，该合同规定了如果迈克尔这个被定罪的杀人犯获得假释，所有共同的家庭和关系责任——这份合同即将生效。
The contract stipulated a two-year trial period for their marriage.
合同规定了他们的婚姻试用期为两年。
If it turned into a real marriage, fine.
如果变成真正的婚姻就好了。
If it didn't, they would go their separate ways.
如果没有，他们就会分道扬镳。
Joan could fire Michael, or he could quit-- those are their words-- at any time.
琼可以解雇迈克尔，或者他可以随时辞职——这是他们的原话。
Nobody keeps statistics on how long prison marriages last on the outside, but lots of prison people will tell you most end before a year is up.
没有人统计监狱里的婚姻在外面能持续多久，但很多监狱里的人会告诉你，大多数监狱婚姻都会在一年结束前结束。
On August 21, 2010, after 40 years in prison, and 10 years with Joan, Michael was a free man.
2010 年 8 月 21 日，迈克尔在监狱服刑 40 年后，与琼一起度过了 10 年之后，获得了自由。
Joan was waiting for him in a parked car at the prison gates, wearing an earring Michael had made for her.
琼戴着迈克尔为她制作的耳环，在停在监狱门口的汽车里等他。
Joan was so nervous and excited that she hadn't slept the night before.
乔安安又紧张又兴奋，前一天晚上都没睡着。
She had a whole romantic vision for the day.
她对这一天充满了浪漫的憧憬。
She'd made a reservation at a five-star hotel.
她预订了一家五星级酒店。
Michael walked out wearing his prison-issued jumpsuit, nervous, and overwhelmed to be out.
迈克尔穿着监狱发放的连身裤走出去，他很紧张，也不知所措。
And he didn't kiss me or anything.
他没有吻我什么的。
He just got into the car and said, let's go.
他刚上车就说，走吧。
So it was a very unromantic meeting, and it kind of hurt me.
所以这是一次非常不浪漫的会面，这让我有点受伤。
I was elated, but I was kind of bewildered.
我很高兴，但又有点困惑。
I don't think you can describe it.
我认为你无法描述它。
I thought he would be as warm to see me as he was in the visiting rooms, where he would hug me and try to steal an extra kiss or something.
我以为他见到我会像在探视室一样热情，他会拥抱我并试图偷一个额外的吻什么的。
Oh, no. He was very businesslike.
哦，不。他很有生意头脑。
It wasn't what they show in the movies at all.
这根本不是他们在电影中表现的那样。
As comprehensive as the contract was, it didn't cover everything.
尽管合同很全面，但它并没有涵盖所有内容。
It didn't occur to them to include anything about sex.
他们没有想到要包括任何有关性的内容。
A quick warning to anyone listening with kids, this next bit of the story is about that.
给所有和孩子一起听的人一个快速警告，下一个故事就是关于这个的。
Michael had never had sex with someone he loved.
迈克尔从未与他所爱的人发生过性关系。
And 40 years in prison left him pretty messed up on that subject.
40 年的监禁让他在这个问题上陷入了困境。
I did not expect him to be so afraid to cuddle.
我没想到他这么害怕拥抱。
If we have our clothes on, he hugs me all day long.
如果我们穿上衣服，他会整天拥抱我。
But getting naked with somebody makes him very uncomfortable.
但和别人一起裸体让他很不舒服。
Especially the last few years, she had taken on more and more of a mother figure to me.
尤其是最近几年，她对我来说越来越呈现出母亲的形象。
And when we got in a hotel room together, then I started pacing the floor, identifying with Oedipus Rex, if you know what I mean.
当我们一起进入酒店房间时，我开始在地板上踱步，认同俄狄浦斯雷克斯，如果你明白我的意思的话。
I think what he means is their relationship had shifted over the years.
我认为他的意思是他们的关系多年来发生了变化。
And she was now 79, remember-- 16 years older than Michael.
请记住，她现在已经 79 岁了——比迈克尔大 16 岁。
Once they were in a hotel room, they realized that the nature of their feelings toward each other were really complicated.
到了酒店房间后，他们才发现彼此的感情真的很复杂。
Over the years they'd known each other, Joan had gone from initially feeling like she wanted to adopt Michael, to wanting to sleep with him to, now that he was out, a kind of mishmash of all those feelings.
在他们认识的这些年里，琼从最初想要收养迈克尔，到想要和他上床，现在他出去了，所有这些感觉都混杂在一起。
He's still an adopted child, and he's still my best companion, and I love him, and he's my best friend.
他仍然是一个被收养的孩子，他仍然是我最好的伴侣，我爱他，他是我最好的朋友。
So it's all together.
所以一切都在一起。
And I'm comfortable with it.
我对此感到很舒服。
So Michael moved into Joan's suburban ranch house in Dallas and got to know her family and friends.
因此，迈克尔搬进了琼位于达拉斯的郊区牧场房屋，并结识了她的家人和朋友。
There were lots of academics, all sorts of people and settings he'd never encountered before.
这里有很多他以前从未遇到过的学者、各种各样的人和环境。
She was surprised how well he did socially, but they had their rocky moments.
她对他的社交表现感到惊讶，但他们也有过不稳定的时刻。
Joan took Michael to a wine-tasting party and he got fall-down drunk.
琼带迈克尔去参加一个品酒会，他喝得酩酊大醉。
Joan had to haul him outside to avoid making a scene.
琼不得不把他拖到外面，以免大吵大闹。
This happened two or three times.
这种情况发生过两三次。
He never really drank socially before, usually, just to get hammered.
他以前从来没有真正在社交场合喝酒过，通常只是为了挨打。
And at parties with Joan, he'd go too far, partly to calm his nerves.
在与琼的聚会上，他会做得太过分，部分原因是为了安抚自己的紧张情绪。
One of Joan's friends-- someone who'd been close to Joan's first husband, Pascal-- was appalled by her choice of a second husband and ended their friendship.
琼的一位朋友——与琼的第一任丈夫帕斯卡关系密切——对她选择第二任丈夫感到震惊，并结束了他们的友谊。
It's now been four years since Michael got out.
迈克尔出狱已经四年了。
They've made it way past the trial period in their contract.
他们已经超过了合同中的试用期。
Michael still leaves the stove on and the front door open-- things he never had to think about when he was in prison.
迈克尔仍然把炉子开着，前门开着——这是他在监狱里时从未想过的事情。
He leaves his stuff lying around everywhere.
他把他的东西扔得到处都是。
Joan says it's like having a teenager in the house again.
琼说，这就像家里又多了一个青少年。
But they've learned to deal with all this.
但他们已经学会了应对这一切。
Their lives are intertwined now.
他们的生活现在交织在一起。
Somehow, there's an equality of people in this marriage that I didn't have before.
不知怎的，这段婚姻里的人是平等的，这是我以前所没有的。
I was too dependent upon my husband and his reputation.
我太依赖我的丈夫和他的声誉。
But with Michael, it's just-- you know, I figure I've become free in some strange way.
但对于迈克尔来说，这只是——你知道，我想我已经以某种奇怪的方式获得了自由。
The neighbors have to accept us the way we are now.
邻居们必须接受我们现在的样子。
They got a criminal in their neighborhood.
他们的邻居发现了一名罪犯。
I love to have him out there with all of his tats all over him.
我喜欢他满身都是纹身。
Now that Joan is in her early 80s, she's started to wonder what's going to happen to Michael when she's gone.
现在琼已经 80 岁出头了，她开始想知道当她离开后迈克尔会发生什么。
That wasn't in the contract.
合同里没有这个内容。
Joan figures maybe they've got another seven years together.
琼估计他们可能还会在一起七年。
We'll have to find you another old lady to take you in.
我们得另找一位老太太来收留你。
(LAUGHING) Prospects are going to be few and far between.
（笑）前景将会变得非常稀少。
(LAUGHING) I'll find another kindergarten teacher who will really shape you up.
（笑）我会找到另一位能真正塑造你的幼儿园老师。
Well, we often say that we should die together.
嗯，我们常说，我们应该一起死。
So maybe we'll drive into a freight train or get hit by an 18-wheeler.
所以也许我们会撞上货运列车或被 18 轮车撞到。
Well, what about a plane crash?
那么，飞机失事怎么办？
Don't you like that idea?
你不喜欢这个主意吗？
No, I'd rather drown.
不，我宁愿淹死。
Joan Covici Oh.
琼·科维奇哦。
(LAUGHING) I see.
（笑）我明白了。
Until that day, whether they go out together or not, they like to watch Downton Abbey together.
直到那一天，无论他们是否一起出去，他们都喜欢一起看《唐顿庄园》。
They go to plays.
他们去看戏。
Recently, they went to see a Tennessee Williams play at a community theater near their house.
最近，他们去家附近的社区剧院观看了田纳西·威廉姆斯的演出。
And these two people, who have lived very different lives, had the same reaction.
而这两个人，过着截然不同的生活，却做出了同样的反应。
They thought the play sucked.
他们认为这出戏很糟糕。
They left at intermission.
他们在中场休息时离开。
Christopher Rhoads.
克里斯托弗·罗兹。
It's been four years since we first broadcast that story, and today's program.
距离我们第一次播出这个故事和今天的节目已经过去四年了。
Joan and Michael are still together.
琼和迈克尔还在一起。
They're dealing with some difficult things right now.
他们现在正在处理一些困难的事情。
She's going through chemo.
她正在接受化疗。
He moved into a treatment center for alcoholism, though, he's back in the house two or three times a week and stays over on weekends.
不过，他搬进了酗酒治疗中心，但他每周回家两到三次，周末也会留下来。
Coming up, Brother, Can You Spare a Lime?
来了，兄弟，你能省点钱吗？
Siblings on a road trip through Mexico that is unlike anything either one of them imagined beforehand.
兄弟姐妹踏上了穿越墨西哥的公路旅行，这与他们之前的想象完全不同。
Also, comedian Tig Notaro.
还有喜剧演员蒂格·诺塔罗。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme and bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，并为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's program-- Wait-- Do You Have the Map-- stories of people in situations they have no preparation for whatsoever because most people have not been in those situations.
今天的节目——等等——你有地图吗——讲述人们在毫无准备的情况下的故事，因为大多数人都没有经历过这些情况。
In the second half of our program, both stories take place where you need a map-- that is, on the road.
在我们节目的后半部分，两个故事都发生在你需要地图的地方——也就是说，在路上。
We've arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two-- Final Rest Stop.
第二幕——最后的休息站。
Tig Notaro is a comedian who's been on our program before.
蒂格·诺塔罗 (Tig Notaro) 是一位喜剧演员，以前曾参加过我们的节目。
Back in 2013, she went on a tour across the country that was filmed.
早在2013年，她就进行了全国巡演并进行了拍摄。
It was a strange tour.
这是一次奇怪的旅行。
She and this Canadian comic named Jon Dore went around the country performing in people's living rooms and their backyards and just lots of situations where they had to ad hoc their way through what they were doing.
她和这位名叫乔恩·多尔（Jon Dore）的加拿大喜剧演员走遍全国，在人们的客厅和后院表演，在很多情况下他们必须临时完成他们正在做的事情。
One of our producers, Nancy Updike, saw the film, which has many, many moments in it that fit today's theme.
我们的制片人之一南希·厄普代克观看了这部电影，其中有很多很多符合今天主题的时刻。
Here's Nancy.
这是南希。
Tig and John are like door-to-door comedy salesmen in the film-- invited salesmen-- showing up at people's houses and knocking on their doors.
蒂格和约翰就像电影中的上门喜剧推销员——受邀推销员——出现在人们的家中并敲门。
But my favorite parts of the movie are just Tig and Jon in the car in between gigs-- the road trip part of the movie.
但电影中我最喜欢的部分是蒂格和乔恩在演出间隙在车里——电影的公路旅行部分。
Jon's always driving, sometimes using special Canadian mind exercises to either stay alert or to annoy Tig.
乔恩总是开车，有时会使用特殊的加拿大思维练习来保持警惕或惹恼蒂格。
I'm going to name as many-- Tig Notaro No. No, no, no.
我要说出尽可能多的人的名字——蒂格·诺塔罗（Tig Notaro），不，不，不。
--Montreal Expos-- Tig Notaro No, no, no.
——蒙特利尔博览会——蒂格·诺塔罗 不，不，不。
Andrés Galarraga, Tim Wallach, Tim Raines--
安德烈斯·加拉拉加、蒂姆·瓦拉赫、蒂姆·雷恩斯——
They talk in the car, riff on each other's jokes.
他们在车里聊天，互相开玩笑。
It's like watching dancers staying limber between performances.
这就像看着舞者在表演之间保持灵活一样。
Tig shows off her incredible impression of a clown's horn.
蒂格展示了她对小丑号角的不可思议的印象。
[HONKING] Nancy Updike They both look like they're having a really good time.
[鸣喇叭] 南希·厄普代克 他们看起来都玩得很开心。
Then, as Jon is wrapping up his impression of Johnny Carson auditioning for Jodie Foster's role in Silence of the Lambs, Tig suddenly grimaces in pain.
然后，当乔恩正在结束对约翰尼·卡森试镜《沉默的羔羊》中朱迪·福斯特角色的印象时，蒂格突然痛苦地做了个鬼脸。
I just get stomach pains.
我只是胃痛。
Jon Dore Is this something I need to be worried about, or is this just, like, your stomachache?
乔恩·多尔（Jon Dore）：这是我需要担心的事情吗？或者这只是你的胃痛？
If it continued for a while, then there would be trouble.
如果再持续一段时间，那就麻烦了。
Nope.
没有。
I just have pains every now and then.
我只是时不时地感到疼痛。
Tig had cancer two years ago-- famously, if you follow comedy.
蒂格两年前得了癌症——如果你关注喜剧的话，这是众所周知的。
It was breast cancer, advanced.
这是乳腺癌，晚期。
She had a double mastectomy.
她接受了双乳房切除术。
A few months before the cancer was diagnosed, Tig was in the hospital with a terrible, sometimes deadly, infection called C.
在诊断出癌症前几个月，蒂格因感染一种可怕的、有时甚至致命的梭状芽胞杆菌感染而住院。
diff.
差异。
Over the course of the tour, driving around, doing gigs, Tig and Jon log enough hours together that they get into all of that-- illness, fear of death.
在巡演过程中，蒂格和乔恩在一起开车、演出，在一起度过了足够长的时间，以至于他们陷入了所有这些——疾病、对死亡的恐惧。
They joke about it.
他们拿这件事开玩笑。
They're serious about it.
他们对此很认真。
They navigate it.
他们驾驭它。
And at some point in the trip, Jon and Tig pull over at a roadside store that sells fireworks and tombstones.
在旅途中的某个时刻，乔恩和蒂格在一家出售烟花和墓碑的路边商店停下来。
Maybe two different people on a different road trip wouldn't have stopped or wouldn't have stayed if they stopped.
也许两个不同的人在不同的公路旅行中不会停下来，或者如果他们停下来也不会留下来。
But as friends who were also comics, they both head into the field of tombstones and start improvising, neither of them knowing where this is going to lead and whether it's going to be funny or maybe a terrible idea.
但作为同时也是漫画家的朋友，他们都进入了墓碑领域并开始即兴创作，他们都不知道这会导致什么，也不知道这是否会很有趣，或者可能是一个糟糕的主意。
Tig explains to the owner of the store why she and Jon are looking for a headstone for her.
蒂格向店主解释了她和乔恩为什么要为她寻找墓碑。
I just want to be smart, think ahead.
我只是想变得聪明，提前思考。
All right.
好的。
Yeah.
是的。
Tig Notaro I really like this one.
蒂格·诺塔罗 我真的很喜欢这个。
Tig, at this point, is touching a modest, flat slab on the ground.
此时，蒂格正在接触地面上一块不起眼的平坦石板。
See, now that's just the bottom.
看，现在这只是底部。
You could have that engraved, right, and just use that?
你可以把它刻下来，对吧，然后就用它？
I would buy you this.
我会给你买这个。
I would love to buy your headstone.
我很想买你的墓碑。
Jon's pointing to an upright headstone.
乔恩指着一块直立的墓碑。
Tig seems momentarily thrown, like, are we still playing here?
蒂格似乎瞬间陷入了困境，我们还在这儿玩吗？
All right.
好的。
Jon Dore I'm not joking.
乔恩·多尔，我不是在开玩笑。
I'd love to do this for you.
我很乐意为你做这件事。
OK.
好的。
Jon Dore I'd buy your headstone if you buy the base.
乔恩·多尔（Jon Dore）：如果你买底座，我就买你的墓碑。
All right.
好的。
Because I'm more than happy to just have that.
因为我很高兴能拥有它。
That is a base.
那是一个基础。
Jon Dore Yeah, but what are you going to do with a base?
乔恩·多尔（Jon Dore）是的，但是你打算用基地做什么呢？
I'm going to go under it.
我要去它下面。
Jon Dore You should have this.
乔恩·多尔（Jon Dore）你应该拥有这个。
Let me stop the tape.
让我停止播放磁带。
That pause-- that's Jon's moment to be stunned by the directness of, "I'm going to go under it." Then he recovers and keeps going.
那个停顿——正是乔恩被他的直接性震惊的时刻，“我要接受它。”然后他康复并继续前进。
You should have this.
你应该有这个。
People are not going to want to stand over it and read.
人们不会愿意站在它上面阅读。
They're going to want to look at it from a distance.
他们会想从远处看它。
Look at-- if you get something like this, people can sit down in front of it and cry.
看看——如果你得到这样的东西，人们可以坐在它前面哭泣。
So you're underneath me, right?
所以你在我下面，对吧？
And I'm just bawling my eyes out, and I can read it here.
我只是痛哭流涕，我可以在这里读到它。
I don't have to kneel down and come all the way over there.
我不用跪下来千里迢迢过来。
Yeah.
是的。
Jon Dore I can bring a lawn chair.
乔恩·多尔（Jon Dore）我可以带一把草坪椅。
I'd be in a lawn chair.
我会坐在草坪椅上。
I'd be there for hours.
我会在那里待上几个小时。
You'd spend some time.
你会花一些时间。
Jon Dore You'd look beautiful under that.
乔恩·多尔（Jon Dore）：穿上它你会看起来很漂亮。
I like it.
我喜欢它。
I like it.
我喜欢它。
Nancy Updike Jon buys the headstone.
南希·厄普代克·乔恩买下了墓碑。
It's $425-- cheap for a tombstone, expensive for a joke.
售价 425 美元——对于墓碑来说便宜，对于笑话来说贵。
Then they get back on the road.
然后他们回到路上。
I watched this scene a bunch of times, the way they pushed the joke forward but kept saying real things with real feelings.
这个场景我看了很多遍，他们一边开玩笑一边继续说真话，带着真感情。
It was a game, and the game was keep it going.
这是一场游戏，而游戏就是要继续下去。
Don't stop.
别停下来。
Let's see where this goes.
让我们看看这会发生什么。
Nancy Updike, playing an excerpt from the film, Knock Knock, It's Tig Notaro.
南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike）演奏电影《敲敲门，这是蒂格·诺塔罗》的节选。
If you're in Los Angeles on March 31, you can catch Tig at Largo.
如果 3 月 31 日您在洛杉矶，您可以在 Largo 观看 Tig。
All of her upcoming show dates are at tignotaro.com.
她所有即将到来的演出日期都在 tignotaro.com 上。
Act Three: Not All Who Wander Are Lost…But Some Definitely Are Ira Glass Act Three-- Not All Who Wander Are Lost, But Some Definitely Are.
第三幕：并非所有流浪者都迷路了……但有些人肯定是艾拉·格拉斯 第三幕——并非所有流浪者都迷路了，但有些人肯定是。
A car is a classic place to realize, oh right, I'm lost.
汽车是一个典型的地方，让我意识到，哦，对了，我迷路了。
Though sometimes, you realize that you're lost.
尽管有时你会意识到自己迷失了。
You're, like, personally lost, and then you get into the car and you drive as far as you can to solve that problem.
你就像迷路了一样，然后你钻进车里，尽可能地开去解决这个问题。
James Spring has this story.
詹姆斯·斯普林有这样一个故事。
It's partly about that.
部分原因与此有关。
There's this guy that I've known forever.
有一个我永远认识的人。
His name's Kevin.
他的名字叫凯文。
He's about 40, a father now with two kids.
他大约40岁，现在是一个有两个孩子的父亲。
But back in the summer of 1989, when Kevin had just turned 16, his dad let him drive from San Diego to Central America with his older brother.
但早在 1989 年夏天，凯文刚满 16 岁，他的父亲就让他和哥哥一起从圣地亚哥开车前往中美洲。
Kevin was super excited.
凯文非常兴奋。
It was the adventure of a lifetime.
这是一生难忘的冒险。
He'd saved up nearly $1,000 working after school at a yogurt shop.
他放学后在一家酸奶店打工，攒下了近 1,000 美元。
Kevin's brother, who was 21 at the time, knew parts of Mexico pretty well.
凯文的哥哥当时 21 岁，对墨西哥的部分地区非常了解。
After he'd dropped out of college, it seemed that he was down in Baja all the time.
大学退学后，他似乎一直呆在巴哈。
He was a hard charger, lived with a bunch of tattooed guys who looked like felons.
他是一个严厉的冲锋者，和一群看起来像重罪犯的纹身家伙住在一起。
He drove this kick-ass red Jeep with no doors.
他开着这辆没有门的红色吉普车。
So a little wild, but he'd always looked out for Kevin since they were little kids.
有点狂野，但从他们还是小孩子的时候起，他就一直照顾凯文。
Kevin wasn't worried.
凯文并不担心。
Good guy to travel with.
适合一起旅行的好男人。
He'll watch out for me.
他会留意我的。
We'll learn some Spanish, drink beer, and smoke cigarettes.
我们将学一些西班牙语，喝啤酒，抽烟。
But there were other interesting facts about Kevin's brother, too, some of which would soon become concerns.
但关于凯文的兄弟还有其他有趣的事实，其中一些很快就会引起人们的关注。
That thing that the brother was doing in Baja-- not legal.
兄弟在巴哈做的事——不合法。
The tattooed guys who looked like felons were, in fact, felons.
那些看起来像重罪犯的纹身家伙实际上是重罪犯。
And actually, Kevin's brother, himself, had recently been released from a short stint in county jail.
事实上，凯文的兄弟本人最近刚刚从县监狱短期刑满释放。
The older brother had anger issues.
哥哥有愤怒的问题。
He was a control freak.
他是一个控制狂。
So the trip-- I mean, it sucked.
所以这次旅行——我的意思是，很糟糕。
It ended badly, and it ended early.
结局很糟糕，而且结束得很早。
There was a blowout fight.
发生了一场激烈的战斗。
Two drove down.
两个人开车下来。
One flew back.
一只飞回来了。
I was happy to get on a plane and go home.
我很高兴登上飞机回家。
I'd had enough of the driving.
我已经受够了开车。
I'd had enough of my asshole brother.
我已经受够了我的混蛋兄弟。
And now it had become a fight.
现在它变成了一场战斗。
And even though we had fought before, really, this was the worst one.
尽管我们以前吵过架，但实际上，这是最糟糕的一次。
There's one more important thing to know about Kevin and his brother.
关于凯文和他的兄弟，还有一件更重要的事情需要了解。
When they were kids, they'd been everything to each other-- super close, like war buddies-- because they grew up with a stepfather who was a real bastard-- violent.
当他们还是孩子的时候，他们对彼此来说就是一切——非常亲密，就像战友一样——因为他们的继父是一个真正的混蛋——暴力。
And they moved around a lot.
他们经常搬家。
Every year, a new school.
每年都有一所新学校。
No friends-- really, just each other.
没有朋友——真的，只有彼此。
This trip, that fight-- it decimated their relationship.
这次旅行，那次争吵——破坏了他们的关系。
The two never really spoke about the trip again, didn't speak much at all.
两人再也没有真正谈论过这次旅行，甚至没有说太多话。
It's been more than 20 years.
已经过去20多年了。
I wanted to talk to Kevin about this and how he feels about it now, since I already know how his brother feels about this.
我想和凯文谈谈这件事以及他现在对此的感受，因为我已经知道他哥哥对此的感受。
Because I'm his brother.
因为我是他弟弟。
Talk about the long trip?
谈论长途旅行吗？
James Spring When I first suggested that we talk, Kevin was ambivalent.
詹姆斯·斯普林 当我第一次建议我们谈谈时，凯文很矛盾。
I think he wondered why-- like, what good could come of it-- which is fair because I have not been an easy guy to talk to.
我想他想知道为什么——比如，这样做会带来什么好处——这很公平，因为我不是一个容易交谈的人。
But I had some things I wanted to say.
但我有一些话想说。
And look, in this story, I'm not going to come off well.
看，在这个故事中，我的表现不会很好。
I was a real prick.
我真是个混蛋。
In the late '80s, I was the first person in my family to get into college.
八十年代末，我是家里第一个考上大学的人。
I dropped out after six months.
六个月后我退学了。
Some friends let me crash with them.
有些朋友让我和他们一起崩溃。
One night, I threw a party that went off the rails and three shots rang out from a semiautomatic handgun.
一天晚上，我举办了一场派对，但派对却出轨了，一把半自动手枪响起了三声枪响。
The idiot that fired the gun?
那个开枪的白痴？
That was me-- my gun-- evicted.
那是我——我的枪——被驱逐了。
Then I started hanging with some truly bad people.
然后我开始和一些真正的坏人交往。
We were running ephedrine and coke from Baja into San Diego.
我们将麻黄素和可乐从巴哈运送到圣地亚哥。
One night, there was a drug raid at our house.
一天晚上，我们家遭遇毒品袭击。
Everything got flushed down the toilets before the cops got through the door, but I still got arrested.
在警察进门之前，所有东西都被冲进了厕所，但我仍然被捕了。
Through all of this, though, I still somehow had this great girlfriend, just really sweet and wonderful.
尽管经历了这一切，我仍然拥有这个很棒的女朋友，真的很甜蜜，很棒。
Then I slept with some other girl.
然后我就和别的女孩睡了。
You know what that got me?
你知道那给了我什么吗？
Gonorrhea is what it got me, and no girlfriend.
我得了淋病，却没有女朋友。
I ruined so much, so much.
我毁了太多太多。
But I could run away from almost all of it and take penicillin for the rest.
但我可以逃避几乎所有的事情，剩下的就服用青霉素。
I was 21 years old, a colossal mess, and I just wanted to get in my Jeep and drive to Mexico and beyond-- see the temples of the Aztecs, the Mayan ruins.
我当时 21 岁，一团糟，我只想开上我的吉普车，开车去墨西哥和更远的地方——看看阿兹特克人的神庙、玛雅遗址。
So I prepared to drive all the way to Central America for the summer.
于是我准备一路开车去中美洲过暑假。
And I would take with me the one person who I was sure didn't think I was such a bad guy.
我会带上一个我确信不认为我是个坏人的人。
And I was done being that bad guy, anyway-- that shallow, selfish me that people hated.
无论如何，我已经不再做那个坏人了——人们讨厌的那个浅薄、自私的我。
I was ready to throw myself into something real on this trip, something important, something smart.
我已经准备好在这次旅行中投入一些真正的东西，一些重要的、聪明的事情。
Before we left, I removed the backseat from the Jeep and replaced it with a welded lockbox with maybe two suitcases worth of storage space.
在我们离开之前，我把吉普车的后座拆下来，换上一个焊接锁箱，里面可能有两个手提箱的存储空间。
Then I loaded it with a lot of books.
然后我装了很多书。
I'd always been a reader, like a studier, and my plan for the summer was, sure, hang out with my brother, but also to learn the language of the Lacandon Mayans.
我一直是一个读者，就像一个学习者，我夏天的计划当然是和我的兄弟一起出去玩，而且还要学习拉坎东玛雅人的语言。
And I was going to learn to read the Mesoamerican hieroglyphs.
我要学习阅读中美洲象形文字。
I even made flashcards for myself.
我什至为自己制作了抽认卡。
This trip would be an opportunity for me to figure out once and for all why the Mayan civilization disappeared.
这次旅行对我来说将是一次彻底弄清楚玛雅文明消失的原因的机会。
Yeah.
是的。
Archaeologists had been on the job for more than a century, and still nobody knew why all these cities were abandoned.
考古学家已经从事这项工作一个多世纪了，但仍然没有人知道为什么所有这些城市都被遗弃了。
But I was pretty sure that this summer, I was going to get it nailed down.
但我非常确定今年夏天我会把它敲定。
All answers lay somewhere in those lost cities deep in the jungle.
所有的答案都隐藏在丛林深处那些失落的城市的某个地方。
And lucky Kevin, he was about to see every one of them.
幸运的是凯文，他即将见到他们每一个人。
Palenque, Chichén Itzá, Teotihuacan, Uxmal, Mitla, Templo del Sol.
帕伦克、奇琴伊察、特奥蒂瓦坎、乌斯马尔、米特拉、太阳神庙。
I can name these things, but I can't remember them.
我可以说出这些东西的名字，但我不记得它们。
They all just blend together for me as rocks crumbling.
对我来说，它们就像岩石碎裂一样融合在一起。
And the idea of seeing the ruins wasn't-- that was your idea why you would be going to Mexico.
看到废墟的想法并不是——那就是你要去墨西哥的想法。
At 16, just turned 16, I knew there was going to be beer.
16 岁时，刚满 16 岁，我就知道将会有啤酒。
I knew there was going to be ladies at the tourist spots, and hopefully surf good, warm water.
我知道旅游景点会有女士，希望能在温暖的水里冲浪。
I have no recollection of surf being on the itinerary.
我不记得行程中有冲浪。
I mean, I don't know--
我的意思是，我不知道——
So off we went with our high hopes-- such wildly different high hopes-- into Mexico.
于是，我们带着我们的厚望——如此截然不同的厚望——来到了墨西哥。
To get us to the important places where I wanted to be, most days I'd need to drive us for stretches of six or eight hours.
为了让我们到达我想去的重要地方，大多数时候我需要开车六到八个小时。
A lot of times, Kevin just wanted to stop, like in a village, and see stuff.
很多时候，凯文只是想停下来，就像在一个村庄里一样，看看东西。
But there could be no stopping.
但没有办法停下来。
When we did pull into little towns, people were curious about the two gringos who showed up in their pueblo.
当我们确实驶入小镇时，人们对出现在他们的普韦布洛的两个外国佬感到好奇。
They'd ask questions, and I'd tell them to mind their own business.
他们会问问题，我会告诉他们管好自己的事。
I wasn't some freak show oddity.
我不是什么怪人秀。
What I was was a pretentious douchebag who could not be bothered to interact with the common man.
我本来就是一个自命不凡的混蛋，懒得和普通人交往。
Kevin, though, was, like, energized by being around other people, and the more the merrier.
然而，凯文却因为和其他人在一起而充满活力，而且越多越好。
He loved it when we were in the beach towns full of American tourists.
当我们在充满美国游客的海滩小镇时，他很喜欢。
And in the small villages, he'd fumble through the few Spanish words that he knew, and he'd start these inane conversations with everybody.
在小村庄里，他会摸索着他所知道的几个西班牙语单词，然后与每个人开始这些无聊的对话。
It grated on me.
这让我很恼火。
I wasn't much better on the road.
我在路上也好不了多少。
Driving on mountain highways was frigging unnerving, especially at night.
在山区高速公路上行驶令人心神不安，尤其是在晚上。
And a lot of the time, the map just did not seem to reflect the reality on the ground.
很多时候，地图似乎并没有反映地面上的现实。
My Spanish wasn't great, but the little phrases that I used to navigate around Baja weren't working for me here.
我的西班牙语不是很好，但我用来在巴哈导航的小短语在这里对我不起作用。
The dialects were different.
方言不同。
I couldn't understand a lot of the responses.
很多回复我都看不懂。
And I didn't handle it well, which I couldn't hide from Kevin, who was sitting right next to me.
我处理得不好，这一点我无法向坐在我旁边的凯文隐瞒。
As we'd pull away from the people, so often, I remember that you'd be like, (WHISPERING) oh, that fucking idiot.
当我们经常远离人们时，我记得你会说，（低声）哦，那个该死的白痴。
Or god, I just asked a simple question.
或者上帝，我只是问了一个简单的问题。
And just kind of continually watching you, the navigator, ask, [SPEAKING SPANISH].
只是不断地看着你，导航员，问，[说西班牙语]。
And I'd just be like, god, he just asked that question two turns ago.
我就想，天哪，他在两个回合前才问过这个问题。
I knew he didn't understand what the guy said.
我知道他不明白那家伙说的话。
So much in my head, I would just be like, pfft, you're calling that guy a fucking idiot, but I can even understand what he said.
我脑子里想的太多了，我会想，噗，你说那家伙是个该死的白痴，但我什至能理解他说的话。
We drove south through Mazatlan and down to Puerto Vallarta.
我们向南行驶，穿过马萨特兰，到达巴亚尔塔港。
It was all green and jungly and full of tourists having fun.
到处都是绿色和丛林，到处都是嬉戏的游客。
I knew that I was better than them.
我知道我比他们更好。
I wasn't here for the parasailing and the tequila poppers.
我来这里不是为了滑翔伞和龙舌兰酒。
I had a mission.
我有一个使命。
This is from my journal entry about the ruins at Ixtlán del Rio.
这是我关于伊克斯特兰德尔里奥遗址的日记。
"July 22, 3:01 PM-- this temple is the highest of the 15-plus structures found here.
“7 月 22 日下午 3:01——这座寺庙是这里发现的 15 多座建筑中最高的一座。
The floor of the temple structure is 4 feet off the ground and is reached by six narrow, steep steps.
寺庙结构的地板距地面 4 英尺，通过六个狭窄陡峭的台阶即可到达。
There's a perimeter wall that runs the circumference, save for four entranceways, not equidistant.
除了四个入口外，还有一堵围墙，不是等距的。
The wall reaches to 10 feet above the ground and has in its design symmetrical crosses as portholes all the way around, 41 of them.
墙壁高出地面 10 英尺，四周设计有 41 个对称的十字形舷窗。
The material of construction at this site is--"
这个工地的建筑材料是——”
The journal is 190 pages long.
该杂志有 190 页长。
And late into every night, I wrote down all of the important Mesoamerican anthropology stuff from the trip, which includes virtually no people-- at least no living people.
每天深夜，我都会写下这次旅行中所有重要的中美洲人类学资料，其中几乎没有人——至少没有活着的人。
If you were forced to read this entire journal and then tried to deduce the importance of the Kevin character in my life, you might guess that he was maybe Boy in Taco Stand or Boy at Beach Number Four.
如果你被迫阅读整本日记，然后试图推断凯文这个角色在我生活中的重要性，你可能会猜测他可能是玉米卷摊上的男孩或四号海滩上的男孩。
He just didn't figure into my narrative.
他只是没有出现在我的叙述中。
And one other thing about this journal-- and I'm not sure how to say this except to just say it.
关于这本日记的另一件事——除了直接说出来之外，我不知道该怎么说。
Along the way, I met some girls.
一路上，我认识了一些女孩。
And if things went well with those girls, then they would earn a little note at the top of the journal page for the day right above the groundbreaking archaeological data.
如果这些女孩进展顺利，那么她们将在当天的期刊页面顶部获得一个小注释，就在突破性的考古数据之上。
And the note would say, for example, "remember Blanca." And I totally do remember Blanca.
例如，纸条上会写着“记住布兰卡”。我完全记得布兰卡。
So there's that.
所以就是这样。
For me, it was all ruins, all the time.
对我来说，这里一直都是废墟。
We drove to the ancient Toltec city of Tula and visited Aztec temples at Tenayuca and Santa Cecilia and the ruins of Teotihuacan.
我们驱车前往托尔特克古城图拉，参观了特纳尤卡和圣塞西莉亚的阿兹特克神庙以及特奥蒂瓦坎遗址。
And by "visited," I mean that we spent hours and hours at each site while I mapped and logged every important detail, while Kevin must have been doing something.
我所说的“访问”是指我们在每个地点花费了好几个小时，同时我绘制并记录了每个重要的细节，而凯文一定一直在做某事。
In general, he was a pretty good sport about it.
总的来说，他是一个非常擅长运动的人。
Clearly, it wasn't his thing.
显然，这不是他的事。
But what was he going to do?
但他要做什么呢？
How are we doing at this point?
我们现在做得怎么样？
How are we getting along, at this point, in your recollection?
在你的记忆中，我们现在相处得怎么样？
Fine.
美好的。
I think there would be times where we'd talk and be like, let's just not talk, or something.
我想有时候我们会说话，然后说，我们就别说话了，或者什么的。
Pretty civilly getting through any frustrations.
非常有礼貌地度过任何挫折。
I wouldn't have gone yet and called you names I don't think.
我想我还不会去骂你。
Not yet.
还没有。
Every night ended the exact same way, with me studying and compulsively writing notes in my journal late into the night with the light on while Kevin tried to sleep.
每个晚上都以完全相同的方式结束，当凯文试图睡觉时，我开着灯学习并在日记中强迫性地写笔记直到深夜。
He complained about it constantly, as if turning out the lights was more important than what I was writing.
他不断地抱怨这件事，好像关灯比我写的东西更重要。
I just kept writing.
我只是继续写。
I felt like the answers that I needed could be parsed later from the details that I wrote, and not like in a New Agey way.
我觉得我需要的答案可以稍后从我写的细节中解析出来，而不是像新时代那样。
I mean like in a real anthropological way.
我的意思是像真正的人类学方式一样。
So I kept writing.
所以我继续写。
And I drew a ton, too-- these really intricate field sketches of Aztec and Mayan designs.
我还画了很多——这些非常复杂的阿兹特克和玛雅设计的实地草图。
And then I mapped out all these ancient cities.
然后我绘制了所有这些古城的地图。
There was no reason for this.
这是没有理由的。
All of the cities had already been mapped by actual archaeologists.
所有的城市都已经被考古学家绘制了地图。
Also, I had a camera.
另外，我还有一台相机。
I took hundreds of pictures.
我拍了数百张照片。
Kevin appears in three of them.
凯文出现在其中的三部中。
At this point, if you were going to write a letter to your best friend, or a postcard to your best friend about your brother, what would it have said?
此时，如果您要给您最好的朋友写一封信，或者给您最好的朋友写一张关于您兄弟的明信片，它会写什么？
The postcard, I'm sure, would say, having fun traveling through Mexico, but my brother's pretty much an [BLEEP]-hole.
我敢肯定，明信片上会写着，在墨西哥旅行很开心，但我哥哥几乎是一个[BLEEP]洞。
I probably would've said, I'm getting kind of sick of him, but I'm sure we can get through this.
我可能会说，我有点厌倦他了，但我相信我们能渡过难关。
The next fun place ahead.
下一个好玩的地方就在前面。
One day, Kevin met a girl about his age.
有一天，凯文遇到了一位与他年龄相仿的女孩。
She was Mexican.
她是墨西哥人。
All I remember about her is that she spoke some English, and she had a small head.
我只记得她会说一点英语，而且她的头很小。
Kevin introduced me, and I was probably just my normal self.
凯文介绍了我，我可能只是正常的自己。
She told Kevin, your brother is really sangron, which I learned later that night means arrogant.
她告诉凯文，你哥哥真是个“桑格隆”，那天晚上我才知道“桑格隆”的意思是傲慢。
Kevin reveled in a great many retellings of that.
凯文对这一点进行了多次重述。
He loved letting me know that everybody thought I was a prick.
他喜欢让我知道每个人都认为我是个混蛋。
And for some reason, this particular jab from the small-headed girl really hit me hard because I normally had to work a little to make people dislike me.
出于某种原因，这个小头女孩的这一特殊攻击确实对我造成了很大的打击，因为我通常必须付出一些努力才能让人们不喜欢我。
But I hadn't done that with her.
但我没有对她这么做。
She could tell that I was an arrogant jerk in my normal resting state.
她看得出来，在正常休息状态下，我是一个傲慢的混蛋。
Sangron became Kevin's new favorite word when we argued, and it drove me crazy.
当我们争论时，“桑格隆”成了凯文最喜欢的新词，这让我发疯。
But even when Kevin was happy, he was driving me crazy now-- his whole "cheerful, surfer, stoked-to-be-around-people" thing.
但即使凯文很高兴，他现在也让我发疯——他的整个“快乐、冲浪、与人相处兴奋”的东西。
It's funny, though, because I remember, as a little kid, I was the same way.
不过，这很有趣，因为我记得，小时候，我也是这样。
In second grade, the teacher wrote a comment in my report card that said I was a bubbly student.
二年级时，老师在我的成绩单上写了一条评论，说我是一个活泼的学生。
That night, when our stepfather got home from the machine shop and read it, I got beat.
那天晚上，当我们的继父从机械车间回到家并读到它时，我被打败了。
He said he knew what the teacher meant-- that I was a loudmouth.
他说他知道老师的意思——我是个大嘴巴。
I changed.
我改变了。
We spent a few days in Mexico City and worked our way south to Oaxaca on little two-lane roads and muddy trails.
我们在墨西哥城待了几天，然后沿着两车道的小路和泥泞的小路向南前往瓦哈卡。
Kevin suggested that maybe we should skip some of the more remote ruins and head straight for the beach.
凯文建议我们也许应该跳过一些更偏远的废墟，直接前往海滩。
And I told him no [BLEEP] way.
我告诉他不行。
We crossed the isthmus and over to the ruins in Campeche in Yucatan.
我们穿过地峡，来到尤卡坦半岛坎佩切的废墟。
And just when it seemed that Kevin was ready to mutiny, we were saved by our next stop on the map-- Cancun.
就在凯文似乎准备叛变时，地图上的下一站——坎昆拯救了我们。
Drinking and night life and beautiful beaches and scuba and snorkeling and beautiful water.
饮酒和夜生活以及美丽的海滩、水肺潜水和浮潜以及美丽的海水。
Cancun was amazing in those days-- just this Caribbean paradise and lots of ruins.
那些日子里的坎昆真是太棒了——就是这个加勒比天堂和很多废墟。
But it was OK.
但没关系。
I was certain we could see and do it all.
我确信我们可以看到并做到这一切。
In fact, the days in Cancun might have been the best of the entire trip.
事实上，在坎昆的日子可能是整个旅程中最美好的时光。
We were both excited to get out to the islands.
我们都很高兴能去岛上。
There was that island just offshore called Isla Mujeres, which sounded great to me because I knew mujeres meant women.
离岸不远的地方有一座叫做女人岛的岛屿，这对我来说听起来很棒，因为我知道女人意味着女人。
So we got on some sort of just-- we didn't bring the car.
所以我们就上了某种——我们没有开车。
We just went out there ourselves.
我们只是自己出去了。
No car.
没有车。
A ferry out there, I think.
我想那里有渡轮。
And then we got there pretty late, I want to say.
我想说，我们到那里已经很晚了。
Long day-- and we found kind of a real quiet bar and started drinking, putting down some drinks.
漫长的一天——我们找到了一个真正安静的酒吧，开始喝酒，放下一些饮料。
And then it was time to go up to our hotel, which is a fairly meager hotel, nothing fancy, and start turning in for the night.
然后是时候去我们的酒店了，这是一家相当简陋的酒店，没什么特别的，然后开始睡觉。
And you, making notations in your journal, and it got to an argument in that hotel that night, where I pretty much let my mouth fly.
而你，在你的日记中记下笔记，那天晚上在那家酒店里发生了争吵，我几乎张口结舌。
And I said all the things I felt, which included, you think you're so cool.
我说了我的所有感受，其中包括，你认为自己很酷。
You think you're so much better than everyone around here.
你认为你比这里的每个人都好得多。
And I'm sure included in that was, you're a fucking idiot.
我确信其中包括你是个白痴。
You're a fucking idiot.
你真是个白痴。
You're fucking not as cool as you think you are.
你他妈的并没有你想象的那么酷。
And I went to the pimples on your face.
我还去了你脸上的痘痘。
I went to the chicks you had chosen.
我去找了你选择的小鸡们。
I went to how you treat everybody like shit.
我去了你如何对待每个人都像狗屎一样。
And you still didn't get up out of that bed or stop writing in your book.
而你仍然没有从床上起来，也没有停止写书。
And it was a "volcano erupting out of my mouth" time.
那是一个“火山从我嘴里喷出来”的时刻。
I would not stop.
我不会停下来。
I would not stop.
我不会停下来。
And I got you grinding your teeth and standing up.
我让你咬紧牙关站起来。
And you said, I'm going to fucking hit you if you say another word.
你还说，你再多说一句话我就打你了。
I think it was that.
我想就是这样。
And I, of course, just said probably one of the slowest (SLOWLY) fuck yous.
当然，我只是说可能是最慢（慢慢地）操你的人之一。
And that's pretty much when I got a slug right to the lip, I'd say.
我想说，这几乎就是当我把子弹打到嘴边时。
Good fat lip.
好厚的嘴唇。
fly backwards, oh!
向后飞去，哦！
Towel rack fell when I flew back.
飞回来的时候毛巾架掉下来了。
And I stood up tall, but I didn't hit back.
我站了起来，但我没有反击。
I just let that mouth go some more.
我只是让那张嘴再张开一些。
That didn't hurt.
那并没有伤害。
Do it again.
再做一次。
Do it again.
再做一次。
Fuck you.
操你妈的。
Fucking doesn't hurt.
他妈的不疼。
Doesn't hurt.
不疼。
Every horrid thing that he said in that room-- I knew he was right.
他在那个房间里说的每一件可怕的话——我知道他是对的。
I agreed with him, so I punished him bad.
我同意他的观点，所以我狠狠地惩罚了他。
Threw him into a nightstand, shattered a lamp, upended a bed.
他把他扔到床头柜上，打碎了一盏灯，掀翻了一张床。
There was blood.
有血。
The door was blocked with the mattress, so we escaped out the window, ran down to the courtyard outside the hotel.
门被床垫堵住了，我们就从窗户逃了出来，跑到了酒店外的庭院。
Next door was a jungle gym.
隔壁是一个攀登架。
And the way I remember it--
我记得它的方式——
My recollection-- you were yelling for me to get away from you.
我的记忆——你大喊着要我离开你。
You were running around the jungle gym on the opposite side because you thought I was coming back for you more.
你在对面的攀登架上跑来跑去，因为你以为我会回来找你更多。
And I was trying to say, no, no, no. You don't understand.
我想说，不，不，不。你不明白。
I should not have done that.
我不应该那样做。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
Over and over, I apologized to Kevin, swore it would never happen again, but it was too late.
我一遍又一遍地向凯文道歉，并发誓再也不会发生这种事，但为时已晚。
Kevin was done.
凯文完成了。
I was 100% down to leave because I did have the control at that moment.
我百分百决定离开，因为那一刻我确实拥有控制权。
That was the one thing I could control.
这是我能控制的一件事。
I could control saying I want to leave.
我可以控制地说我想离开。
I just didn't want to be with-- on that trip anymore.
我只是不想再和——一起旅行了。
I just didn't want to be with you anymore.
我只是不想再和你在一起了。
It wasn't the environment we were in.
这不是我们所处的环境。
It was you.
是你。
I had told you when we got in a fight-- and I know you remember this-- I said, it's never going to be the same between us.
当我们吵架时我告诉过你——我知道你还记得这一点——我说，我们之间永远不会一样。
That's it.
就是这样。
It's over.
结束了。
I'm never going to respect you.
我永远不会尊重你。
It's never going to be the same again.
它永远不会再一样了。
You call me up, I won't even-- probably at that time, I would say I wouldn't talk to you.
你打电话给我，我什至不会——可能到那时，我会说我不会和你说话。
But by the next day-- I remember your face and I knew your emotions well-- you were sorry, and you were sad that things weren't going to be the same.
但到了第二天——我记得你的脸，我很了解你的情绪——你很抱歉，你很伤心事情不会再一样了。
You knew it.
你知道的。
You said, I know they won't.
你说，我知道他们不会。
The next morning, we got back on the ferry and then drove without a word to the Cancun airport, where we bought Kevin a one-way ticket to San Diego.
第二天早上，我们回到渡轮上，然后一言不发地开车去了坎昆机场，在那里我们给凯文买了一张去圣地亚哥的单程票。
I continued on alone to Belize and Guatemala and then turned back up to Mexico, where I stayed for the next four years.
我继续独自前往伯利兹和危地马拉，然后返回墨西哥，在那里度过了接下来的四年。
My mailing address was Lista de Correios, just General Delivery.
我的邮寄地址是 Lista de Correios，即 General Delivery。
And I didn't have a phone.
而且我没有电话。
It wasn't on purpose.
这不是故意的。
Almost nobody in the town had phones.
镇上几乎没有人有电话。
But also, I didn't want a phone.
但同时，我也不想要电话。
I cut myself off almost entirely from my family, not just during the years in Mexico, but even after I returned.
我几乎完全与家人断绝了联系，不仅是在墨西哥的那些年，甚至在我回来之后也是如此。
Kevin had been the very last person left standing in my corner, and I think this trip, at least in hindsight, had been like a bridge to fix things back home and show that I wasn't such a bad guy.
凯文是最后一个站在我角落里的人，我认为这次旅行，至少在事后看来，就像一座桥梁，修复了家里的事情，并表明我不是一个坏人。
Instead, it only proved what I'd always feared-- I was a bad guy.
相反，这只是证明了我一直担心的事情——我是个坏人。
What I didn't know through all this time was that Kevin actually did get over this stuff-- quickly.
一直以来我都不知道的是，凯文实际上很快就克服了这些事情。
Pretty much as soon as he got back to San Diego.
他一回到圣地亚哥就差不多了。
He had said things would never be the same, but "never" means something different to a 16-year-old kid.
他说过事情永远不会一样，但“永远”对于一个 16 岁的孩子来说意味着不同的东西。
And I guess I'm not surprised Kevin's over it.
我想我对凯文的决定并不感到惊讶。
He's not, like, one of those pricks who holds a grudge.
他不是那种心怀怨恨的混蛋。
I'm the one who couldn't let it go, any of it.
我是那个无法放手的人。
That trip in Mexico, for me to hit him, to beat him the way that I did after the childhood we had-- I felt ashamed.
那次墨西哥之行，我像童年之后那样打他、殴打他——我感到羞愧。
Kevin and I had never really sat down and talked about this, but I know I let him down-- not just in Mexico-- long before that, all through our childhood.
凯文和我从来没有真正坐下来谈论过这个问题，但我知道我让他失望了——不仅仅是在墨西哥——很久以前，在我们的整个童年时期。
There were beatings, just this violence, like, every other day.
每隔一天就会有殴打，就是这种暴力。
When I was nine, I saw my stepfather throw Kevin face-first into the sharp corner of a wall.
当我九岁的时候，我看到我的继父把凯文脸朝下扔到了墙的尖角上。
It opened up his forehead-- so much blood.
它打开了他的额头——流了很多血。
Kevin was four years old.
凯文当时四岁。
Even now, almost 40 years later, sitting in front of him, I can barely stand to tell him what happened when we took him to the emergency room.
即使是现在，差不多 40 年后，坐在他面前，我仍然无法忍受告诉他我们带他去急诊室时发生的事情。
Right off the bat, stepfather saying, ah, he tripped and fell.
继父一下子就说啊，他绊倒了，摔倒了。
He's bleeding.
他在流血。
Need to get that fixed.
需要解决这个问题。
And they asked Mom, and she gave the company line.
他们问妈妈，她给了公司线路。
And then they asked me, and I said, yeah.
然后他们问我，我说，是的。
He tripped and fell.
他绊倒了。
Mm-hmm.
嗯嗯。
James Spring And as the older brother, I had a responsibility.
James Spring 作为哥哥，我有责任。
I mean, regardless of what was beaten out of me, I had this responsibility.
我的意思是，无论我遭受了什么打击，我都有这个责任。
I mean, and it hits me now while I look at your face.
我的意思是，当我看着你的脸时，它击中了我。
You've got that-- I mean, that scar is a part of you that is a part that I wish I could forget.
你明白了——我的意思是，那道伤疤是你的一部分，也是我希望能够忘记的一部分。
I bet.
我敢打赌。
James Spring And we would go visit Dad every other weekend.
詹姆斯·斯普林 我们每隔一个周末就会去看望爸爸。
And he would ask, and I wouldn't say anything, you know?
他会问，我不会说什么，你知道吗？
I just-- I wouldn't do it.
我只是——我不会这么做。
And then--
然后——
Our dad didn't know what our stepfather was doing to us until one weekend when Kevin was nine.
直到凯文九岁时的一个周末，我们的父亲才知道继父对我们做了什么。
Kevin had been beaten badly, and he must've said something to Dad.
凯文被打得很惨，他肯定对爸爸说了些什么。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't even-- I wasn't there.
我什至不知道——我当时不在场。
I don't even know what you said.
我什至不知道你说了什么。
Well, you were there.
嗯，你当时就在那里。
You were there.
你当时就在那里。
We were going to Dad and Kathy's on Cove Drive.
我们要去海湾大道上爸爸和凯西家。
And Kathy wasn't there.
凯西不在那儿。
He took a little bit different way.
他采取了一点不同的方式。
We were on a more scenic route from Lakeside, like the 67.
我们从 Lakeside 出发，走的是一条风景更美的路线，比如 67 号公路。
Remember the sunset and the mountain road.
记住日落和山路。
And I remember I had just told him that, oh yeah, I got beat for leaving the paint out.
我记得我刚刚告诉他，哦，是的，我因为漏掉油漆而被殴打。
And then, after getting beat and told to come back out in the living room, I spent about 40 seconds feeling sorry and trying to act normal-- that 40 seconds passed, and I didn't pick up the paint again, and so I got beat again for not picking up the paint.
然后，在被殴打并被告知要回到客厅后，我花了大约 40 秒的时间感到抱歉并试图表现正常 - 40 秒过去了，我没有再拿起油漆，所以我因为没有拿起油漆而再次被殴打。
And it just was--
事情就是——
Um, that time it was.
嗯，就是那个时候。
Back of the knees to the middle of the back.
膝盖后面到背部中间。
The only thing that it took to get us out of that bad situation was for somebody to speak up, for me to tell my dad-- my real dad-- the truth about our life at home.
让我们摆脱这种糟糕局面的唯一方法就是有人站出来说话，让我告诉我的父亲——我真正的父亲——我们家里生活的真相。
But I was too afraid to say anything, so I said nothing.
但我又不敢说什么，所以什么也没说。
And this fact, more than most any other, makes me hate myself because I was the big brother.
这个事实比其他大多数事实更让我讨厌自己，因为我是老大哥。
It was my responsibility to speak up, to protect Kevin.
我有责任大声疾呼，保护凯文。
Instead, he's the one who stood up.
相反，他是那个站起来的人。
He's the one who told our dad.
他是告诉我们爸爸的人。
And he called CPS.
他给 CPS 打了电话。
He called the police.
他报了警。
They took Polaroids, in the room, of my bare ass and back.
他们在房间里拍下了我裸露的屁股和背部的宝丽莱照片。
And we sat around a table and the policeman asked us, I want you to name every time you've been beat.
我们围坐在一张桌子旁，警察问我们，我希望你们说出每次被殴打的名字。
That was the table there on Cove Drive, the dinner table.
那是海湾大道上的那张桌子，餐桌。
And we looked at each other like, oh, do you have a while?
我们互相看着对方，哦，你有时间吗？
And for years after that conversation, for years, maybe decades, I thought of what I had forgot to tell that guy.
在那次谈话之后的很多年里，很多年，也许几十年，我一直在想我忘记告诉那个人的话。
Oh, I never mentioned that time.
哦，我从来没有提到过那次。
And I'd know right away that I hadn't mentioned that.
我立刻就知道我没有提到这一点。
It would pop into my head and go, oh.
它会突然出现在我的脑海里，然后，哦。
I didn't mention that.
我没有提到这一点。
Telling Kevin that I was sorry about the fight in Mexico-- that was one thing.
告诉凯文我对墨西哥的战斗感到抱歉——这是一回事。
Talking about the stuff that happened when we were little-- what I didn't do, apologizing for not protecting him as a kid-- that's what I really needed to say to him.
谈论我们小时候发生的事情——我没有做的事情，为小时候没有保护他而道歉——这才是我真正需要对他说的话。
For the past 20 years, I've lived like half an hour from Kevin.
在过去的 20 年里，我住的地方距离凯文只有半个小时的路程。
He invites me to stuff all the time, but I don't go.
他总是邀请我去参加活动，但我不去。
And I'm not much of an inviter.
而且我不太喜欢邀请人。
I don't see him much or the rest of the family, either.
我也不常见到他，也不常见到他家里的其他人。
Our past has always held me back.
我们的过去总是让我望而却步。
I've got a lot of regret.
我有很多遗憾。
I'm kind of sad to hear that you have so much remorse over it.
听到你对此有如此多的悔恨，我感到有点难过。
I don't blame you for it, and I don't blame you for being older and should have known better.
我不会为此责怪你，我也不会责怪你年纪大了，应该知道得更多。
That is something that happened a long time ago.
那是很久以前发生的事情了。
And I don't want you to be tortured by your past.
我也不希望你被你的过去所折磨。
And I hope I haven't done anything to continue the torture.
我希望我没有做任何事情来继续折磨。
You're loved.
你被爱着。
I'm a different person now than I was at 21-- mostly.
与 21 岁时相比，我现在已经是一个不同的人了——基本上是这样。
It took a long time to get my karma straight.
我花了很长时间才纠正我的业障。
But I'm still not a guy who's going to start a conversation with you on an elevator.
但我仍然不是一个会在电梯上与你交谈的人。
And I'd rather you didn't, either.
我也希望你不要这样做。
Also, I waited a long time, but I'm married now.
另外，我已经等了很长时间了，但我现在已经结婚了。
I have a daughter who's nine and a son who's seven.
我有一个九岁的女儿和一个七岁的儿子。
They have a very different life than the one Kevin and I had.
他们的生活与我和凯文的生活截然不同。
I'm going to have this one.
我要拥有这个。
James Spring A couple of weeks after we spoke, Kevin asked us to come to Thanksgiving at his house.
詹姆斯·斯普林 我们交谈几周后，凯文邀请我们去他家过感恩节。
I drove up with my wife and my kids and a vegetable dish.
我和妻子、孩子一起开车过来，还带了一份蔬菜。
There were a lot of people-- like 22.
人很多——大概有22个人。
Extended family-- people who see each other regularly but don't see me much at all.
大家庭——经常见面但很少见到我的人。
Kevin likes having all this family around.
凯文喜欢有这家人在身边。
It makes me a little anxious.
这让我有点着急。
My kids played with his kids.
我的孩子和他的孩子一起玩。
Nobody got punched in the face.
没有人被打到脸上。
It was nice.
很好。
I think I hoped to see them at Christmas.
我想我希望在圣诞节见到他们。
James Spring in San Diego.
圣地亚哥的詹姆斯斯普林。
In the four years since we first broadcast this story, he and his brother and their families have spent Christmases together-- other times, too.
自从我们第一次播出这个故事以来的四年里，他和他的兄弟以及他们的家人一起度过了圣诞节——其他时候也是如此。
[MUSIC - RUFUS WAINWRIGHT, "HE AIN'T HEAVY, HE'S MY BROTHER"]
[音乐 - 鲁弗斯·温赖特，“他不重，他是我的兄弟”]
Our program was produced today by Miki Meek.
今天我们的节目由 Miki Meek 制作。
Our senior producer for this episode was Julie Snyder.
我们本集的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Our technical director is Matt Tierney.
我们的技术总监是马特·蒂尔尼。
Production help from Alvin Melathe.
Alvin Melathe 提供制作帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website-- thisamericanlife.org.
[致谢] 我们的网站——thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
Thanks, as always, to our program's cofounder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, he told me the first time he went to a board meeting-- like, a real board meeting, at WBEZ-- he was totally disappointed.
你知道，他告诉我，当他第一次参加董事会会议时——就像在 WBEZ 举行的真正的董事会会议一样——他非常失望。
He thought there was going to be milk and cookies and all the candy you could eat.
他以为会有牛奶、饼干和所有你能吃的糖果。
It was very businesslike.
这是非常务实的。
It wasn't what they show in the movies at all.
这根本不是他们在电影中表现的那样。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - RUFUS WAINWRIGHT, "HE AIN'T HEAVY, HE'S MY BROTHER"]
[音乐 - 鲁弗斯·温赖特，“他不重，他是我的兄弟”]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。