541: Regrets, I've Had a Few - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #541 | November 20, 2015 541: Regrets, I've Had a Few Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 541 集 | 2015 年 11 月 20 日 541：遗憾，我有一些注意事项：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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Prologue Ira Glass It's OK to say this, right?
序言 Ira Glass 这么说没问题吧？
There's a lot of long-term joy to being a parent.
作为父母有很多长期的快乐。
But the daily job of it, the mundane feeding your kids and driving them around and disciplining them-- there's not always a lot of pleasure in that.
但日常工作，喂养孩子、开车带他们到处走、管教他们这些平凡的工作——并不总是有很多乐趣。
Which is why, whenever I've talked to Elna Baker about her parents-- Elna works here at the radio show-- whenever Elna talks about her parents, I've always been so impressed at the happy originality of some of their parenting moves, like the ingenuity that her dad brought to tasks that no parent enjoys.
这就是为什么，每当我和埃尔娜·贝克谈论她的父母时——埃尔娜在广播节目中工作——每当埃尔娜谈论她的父母时，我总是对他们的一些育儿行为的快乐创意印象深刻，比如她父亲在没有父母喜欢的任务上所表现出的独创性。
For instance, let's say he would discover that one of the kids had broken something, or eaten a piece of cake that nobody was supposed to touch.
例如，假设他发现其中一个孩子打破了一些东西，或者吃了一块不应该被人碰的蛋糕。
He would gather the kids together.
他会把孩子们聚集在一起。
So with five kids, he would ask all of us which one of us had done it, and we would all lie.
因此，对于五个孩子，他会问我们所有人谁干了这件事，我们都会撒谎。
And so his way of determining who really did it was he would say, line up, tallest to shortest-- he would always make us line up tallest to shortest.
因此，他确定是谁干的的方法是，他会说，排队，从最高到最矮——他总是让我们从最高到最矮排队。
I don't know, I think he saw Sound of Music .
我不知道，我想他看过音乐之声。
And if you have five kids, why not?
如果你有五个孩子，为什么不呢？
Yeah?
是的？
Elna Baker So we would line up against the wall.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）所以我们会靠墙排队。
And he said, I'm going to do the hot knife.
他说，我要做热刀。
And what he would do is he would take out like a butter knife.
他要做的就是像一把黄油刀一样拿出来。
And he would hold a match or a lighter underneath it.
他会在下面放一根火柴或打火机。
And he would say stick out your tongues.
他会说伸出你的舌头。
And so if you're the liar, it'll burn your tongue, is what was explained to us.
因此，如果你是骗子，你的舌头就会被烧伤，这是向我们解释的。
You're nervous, and all the saliva on your tongue will dry up.
你很紧张，舌头上的唾液都会干涸。
Then you'll have enough moisture on your tongue and it won't burn.
这样你的舌头上就会有足够的水分，就不会烧焦了。
OK, of course, that's ridiculous.
好吧，当然，这很荒谬。
What was really happening was, he wouldn't hold the flame close enough to the knife to heat it up at all.
真正发生的事情是，他根本不会将火焰靠近刀子来加热它。
So the knife wasn't hot, and then he would put the knife on the tongue of his oldest daughter.
所以刀不热，然后他就把刀放在大女儿的舌头上。
And so she would be the first.
所以她将是第一个。
And by the time he went to move on to me, the second child, one of us would confess.
当他转向我这个第二个孩子时，我们中的一个人就会承认。
[LAUGHTER] One of us would be like, I did it.
[笑声]我们中的一个人会说，我做到了。
I couldn't help it.
我忍不住了。
I'm so sorry.
我很抱歉。
So Elna's dad definitely tried to do the right thing as a parent.
所以埃尔娜的父亲作为父母肯定尝试做正确的事情。
But he didn't mind entertaining himself in the process.
但他并不介意在这个过程中自娱自乐。
And occasionally, he would ad hoc his way to moves that had a secret kind of long-term genius to them that took years to pay off.
有时，他会临时采取一些行动，这些行动对他们来说具有一种秘密的长期天才，需要数年时间才能获得回报。
Like, for example, the day Elna hit her sister on the head with a broom.
比如说，那天艾尔娜用扫帚打了她姐姐的头。
That day began with Elna's parents sending all five kids out to clean up the garage, which her parents would do now and then.
那天一开始，埃尔娜的父母就派五个孩子出去清理车库，她的父母偶尔也会这样做。
I think we thought we were doing real cleaning, but mostly they just wanted to spend some alone time with the kids not in the house.
我想我们以为我们正在做真正的清洁工作，但大多数情况下他们只是想和不在家的孩子们一起度过一些独处的时间。
They would make up either outdoor chores or the garage.
他们要么做户外杂务，要么做车库。
Elna's little sister Julia found a pair of skates in the garage and she was just skating around, which annoyed Elna, who was really trying to work and clean the garage.
艾尔娜的妹妹朱莉娅在车库里发现了一双溜冰鞋，而她只是到处溜冰，这让艾尔娜很恼火，她正在努力工作和打扫车库。
Elna was nine, Julia was five.
埃尔娜九岁，朱莉娅五岁。
Elna told Julia to get to work.
埃尔娜告诉朱莉娅去工作。
Elna was ignored, which in her mind was not how things were supposed to go between her and her little sister.
艾尔娜被忽视了，在她看来，这不是她和妹妹之间应该发生的事情。
And she got so mad that she took this broom-- and it was one of those big industrial booms with the big, heavy, wide tops-- and she bashed Julia with it, bashed her in the head.
她非常生气，拿起这把扫帚——那是那些顶部又大又重又宽的大型工业繁荣之一——她用它猛击朱莉娅，猛击她的头。
Blood pours down Julia's face.
血从朱莉娅的脸上流下来。
Elena suddenly realizes, like, oh my god, this is serious.
埃琳娜突然意识到，天哪，这很严重。
What did I do?
我做了什么？
It wasn't like a line-- it was like a stream of blood came running down her head.
这不像是一条线——而是像一股血流顺着她的头流下来。
And I genuinely thought I had maybe, accidentally killed my sister.
我真的以为我可能不小心杀了我的妹妹。
Julia runs to their dad, who administers first aid.
朱莉娅跑向负责急救的父亲。
And I remember just watching from the corner of the bathroom, just towels of blood from the top of her head.
我记得我就在浴室的角落里看着，她头顶上只有毛巾沾着血。
Once the bleeding stops, and Julia's bandaged up, Elna's dad comes out into the hallway, and he asks Elna, what happened?
当血停止、朱莉娅包扎完毕后，埃尔娜的父亲来到走廊，他问埃尔娜，发生了什么事？
Elna knows how much trouble she would be in if she admitted the truth, so she lies.
艾尔娜知道如果承认真相会给自己带来多大的麻烦，所以她撒了谎。
She says it was an accident-- the broom slipped.
她说这是一次意外——扫帚滑倒了。
I remember him saying, are you sure that's what happened?
我记得他说，你确定是这样吗？
And I said yes.
我说是的。
Julia, of course, had told him what really happened-- that Elna walloped her intentionally.
当然，朱莉娅告诉了他到底发生了什么——埃尔娜故意殴打她。
And now Elena's dad was in the annoying situation that parents find themselves in now and then.
现在埃琳娜的父亲正处于父母们时不时遇到的恼人的境地。
One child says it happened one way, one says the opposite.
一个孩子说事情是这样发生的，另一个孩子则说相反。
And he gets an idea.
他想到了一个主意。
So he brought everyone in.
于是他就把所有人都带了进来。
We all sat on my parents' bed.
我们都坐在父母的床上。
And he proceeded to conduct a family trial, where each child had to give their testimony of the events in the garage.
他开始进行家庭审判，每个孩子都必须对车库里发生的事件提供证词。
That's right.
这是正确的。
There's video of this.
有这个视频啊
They had just gotten their first video camera.
他们刚刚得到了第一台摄像机。
And her dad thought, oh, maybe this is the kind of thing you use this for.
她爸爸想，哦，也许这就是你用它做的事情。
Or who knows, maybe he just thought the camera added gravitas to the proceedings.
或者谁知道呢，也许他只是认为摄像机给整个过程增添了庄重感。
We were cleaning outside, and I was [INAUDIBLE].
我们在外面打扫卫生，我[听不清]。
OK, so there's this shot here of your little sister.
好的，这是你妹妹的照片。
She looks like she's been crying, and she's about to burst into tears more any second.
她看起来像是刚刚哭过，而且下一秒就要哭得更多。
Like, her eyes are big and wide and watery.
就像，她的眼睛又大又宽，水汪汪的。
Her hair is wet from the blood, and she has a bandage in the center of her head.
她的头发被血浸湿了，头中央缠着绷带。
The bandage is like a comic prop.
绷带就像一个喜剧道具。
It's just a Band-Aid, a regular Band-Aid, stuck to her hair.
这只是一个创可贴，一个普通的创可贴，粘在她的头发上。
And then Elna holded the handle up high, and then it went down.
然后艾尔娜高高举起把手，然后它就落了下来。
OK, Elna, what's your story?
好吧，艾尔娜，你的故事是什么？
Child Elna I just told you.
孩子艾尔娜我刚刚告诉过你了。
Well, I didn't do that on purpose.
嗯，我不是故意的。
I was just holding it.
我只是拿着它。
All right.
好的。
Now I just want to describe the way you look in this.
现在我只想描述一下你在这件事上的样子。
First of all, you have a huge smile on your face.
首先，你脸上挂着灿烂的笑容。
Yeah.
是的。
I'm trying to play it super casual.
我试着玩得超级休闲。
I asked Julia to come and help me get all the stuff out of the thingamajigger.
我请朱莉娅过来帮我从那个东西里取出所有的东西。
And then she accidentally got hit with the broom, the side of it--
然后她不小心被扫帚击中了，扫帚的侧面——
I'm just going to note that you never meet your dad's eye, you never look up at the camera, you're totally avoiding everyone's gaze.
我只是想指出，你从不看你爸爸的眼睛，你从不抬头看镜头，你完全回避每个人的目光。
And she started crying, and I went over by the car and I said, it's all right.
她开始哭，我就开车过去说，没关系。
You're going to be OK.
你会没事的。
And I hugged her and I looked at her head, and I took her inside, and dad fixed her all up.
我拥抱了她，看着她的头，然后把她带进去，爸爸把她全部治好了。
Elna's dad pulls the other kids as witnesses.
艾尔娜的父亲拉来其他孩子作为证人。
Elna's older sister didn't actually see anything, but concludes in the testimony that Elna probably did not mean to hit Julia so hard, but probably did hit her, which actually seems like the truth of the situation.
艾尔娜的姐姐实际上并没有看到任何东西，但在证词中得出结论，艾尔娜可能并不是故意要这么重地打朱莉娅，但很可能确实打了她，这实际上似乎是情况的真相。
Elna's dad turns back to Elna after each bit of testimony, and Elna's voice gets higher and higher as she holds on to her lie.
艾尔娜的父亲在每次作证后都会转向艾尔娜，艾尔娜的声音越来越高，因为她坚持自己的谎言。
And the broom accidentally slipped, and it accidentally hit her on the head, and I didn't do that on purpose.
而且扫帚不小心滑倒了，不小心砸到了她的头，而且我也不是故意的。
Can I just say, if there are any little kids listening to the program today-- seriously, learn from this.
我只能说，如果今天有小孩子在听这个节目的话——认真地，从中吸取教训。
Listen to how high Elna's voice gets when she says, no, I didn't.
听听埃尔娜说“不，我没有”时的声音有多高。
She did it on purpose.
她是故意的。
Child Elna I didn't.
孩子埃尔娜 我没有。
The dad moves into the sentencing part of the trial, asks Julia what punishment would be fair.
父亲进入审判的量刑部分，询问朱莉娅什么样的惩罚才是公平的。
Julia thinks spanking.
朱莉娅想打屁股。
And it feels like that is where this is headed.
感觉这就是事情的发展方向。
Elna's dad turns to her mom to administer the punishment, and then her mom just turns everything upside down when she says--
艾尔娜的爸爸转向她妈妈来执行惩罚，然后她妈妈说，这让一切都颠倒了——
I'm not convinced that it was on purpose.
我不相信这是故意的。
Oh, you're not?
哦，你不是吗？
Mrs. Baker No, because if you think about it--
贝克夫人 不，因为如果你想一想——
She says, the way Elna was holding the broom, it really could have been an accident.
她说，从埃尔娜拿着扫帚的方式来看，这确实可能是一场意外。
It's stupid to hold a broom with the heavy part in the air, she says.
她说，把扫帚的重部分悬在空中是很愚蠢的。
So the only thing Elna's guilty of is stupidity?
那么艾尔娜唯一犯下的罪就是愚蠢吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Gary Baker Elna, what do you think of that?
加里·贝克·艾尔娜，你对此有何看法？
It pans from my mom to me, and you see that I've just taken in that I might get off.
它从我妈妈转向我，你看我刚刚接受了我可能会下车的想法。
And I have this-- I go from this moment of where I was just almost crying, and I have this really mischievous smile on my face and I say, I guess I'm stupid.
我有这样的——从我几乎要哭的那一刻起，我脸上露出了非常顽皮的微笑，我说，我想我很蠢。
I guess I'm stupid.
我想我是愚蠢的。
Ira Glass And with that, she gets off.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）说完，她下了车。
No spanking, no consequences.
不打屁股，没有任何后果。
And then, Elna says, a funny thing happened.
然后，埃尔娜说，有趣的事情发生了。
It just stuck with her.
它一直困扰着她。
Wouldn't go away.
不会走开。
I thought about it way more than if I'd just been spanked.
我对这件事的思考比刚刚被打屁股还要多。
I carried the guilt of this for most of my childhood.
我童年的大部分时间都背负着这种愧疚。
Like in church, when they would talk about lying or sin, this is the thing I would hold onto and relive, because it was the worst thing I'd ever done.
就像在教堂里一样，当他们谈论谎言或罪恶时，我会抓住并重温这件事，因为这是我做过的最糟糕的事情。
And then also feeling so much worse because I'd then lied about it, and gotten away with it.
然后我感觉更糟了，因为我撒了谎，然后就逃脱了惩罚。
Did you also worry that after you died that was going to keep you out of heaven?
你是否也担心死后你会无法进入天堂？
Yeah, I did.
是的，我做到了。
Like I thought a part of me was evil because I was capable of doing it.
就像我认为我的一部分是邪恶的，因为我有能力这样做。
Doing it of lying, she means.
她的意思是，这是撒谎。
Of tricking her parents.
欺骗她的父母。
It was a scheming, selfish part of her that seemed worse than just hitting her sister.
她身上有诡计多端、自私的一面，这似乎比打她姐姐还要糟糕。
And I was afraid of that part of me, because I got away with it.
我害怕自己的那一部分，因为我侥幸逃脱了。
And then do you think it kept you from hitting her more?
那么你认为这会阻止你更多地打她吗？
Yeah, I never hit her again.
是的，我再也没有打过她。
I would want to hit her.
我真想打她。
I would clench my fist and make this face, but I never hit her.
我会握紧拳头，做出这个表情，但我从来没有打过她。
Not that she stopped being mean.
但这并不是说她不再刻薄了。
She was still so mean to her sister.
她对妹妹还是那么刻薄。
She told Julia she was stupid.
她告诉朱莉娅她很蠢。
She said mean things in front of her friends.
她在朋友面前说些刻薄的话。
She trained the baby in the family, Jill, to start crying if Julia ever picked up.
她训练家里的婴儿吉尔，如果朱莉娅接电话，她就会开始哭泣。
But Elna grew up remembering the trial.
但埃尔娜在成长过程中一直记得那场审判。
She did not remember it was videotaped, though.
但她不记得这件事被录像了。
Then nearly 20 years after the event, her brother found the video in some old boxes.
事件发生近 20 年后，她的哥哥在一些旧盒子里发现了这段视频。
And they popped it in and they watched it together, as a family, with her parents and everybody.
他们把它放进去，作为一个家庭，与她的父母和每个人一起观看。
And to Elna's surprise-- OK, she thought, back when she was nine, she thought she was like a criminal mastermind or something to put this lie over on both of her parents.
令艾尔娜惊讶的是——好吧，她想，在她九岁的时候，她认为自己就像一个犯罪策划者或者什么可以把这个谎言强加给她父母的人。
And you watch it now as an adult, and I just think watching me, how could you possibly believe me?
而你现在作为一个成年人看它，我只是在想看着我，你怎么可能相信我？
I'm so obviously lying.
我明显是在撒谎。
Obviously, I'm guilty.
显然，我有罪。
And I say to my dad, how on earth did you not think that I was guilty?
我对我爸爸说，你到底怎么不认为我有罪呢？
And his response was, I knew you were guilty the second you walked in the house.
他的回答是，当你走进房子的那一刻我就知道你有罪。
I knew that she did it.
我知道她做到了。
You could just see her eyes just shifting back and forth, so you knew, or I knew, she's a little liar.
你可以看到她的眼睛来回移动，所以你知道，或者我知道，她是个小骗子。
This, of course, is Elna's dad, Gary Baker.
这当然是埃尔娜的父亲加里·贝克。
He told me that after she lied to him at the very beginning, he staged the trial, expecting that she would cave, she would do the right thing, she would tell the truth.
他告诉我，在她一开始对他撒谎之后，他就上演了审判，期望她屈服，她会做正确的事，她会说实话。
And then she didn't.
然后她没有。
Her mom, by the way, told me she also was not convinced by Elna.
顺便说一句，她妈妈告诉我她也不相信埃尔娜。
She tried to push the idea that it was an accident for Julia's sake, so Julia wouldn't be so scared of Elna going forward.
为了朱莉娅，她试图强调这是一次意外，这样朱莉娅就不会那么害怕艾尔娜的未来。
But once she raised the possibility of not punishing Elna, her dad grabbed at the idea, and just made a judgment on the fly that that would be a more effective punishment for Elna, given Elna's personality.
但当她提出不惩罚艾尔娜的可能性时，她的父亲抓住了这个想法，并立即做出判断，考虑到艾尔娜的性格，这对艾尔娜来说是一种更有效的惩罚。
I decided that she's going to have to live with this.
我决定她必须忍受这一切。
She knows that she did it.
她知道她做到了。
She knows that she hurt her little sister.
她知道她伤害了她的妹妹。
She knows the truth.
她知道真相。
And so she's going to live with that for the rest of her life.
所以她将在余生中忍受这一点。
And you thought that would be better than just spanking her?
你认为这比打她屁股更好吗？
Well, because the spanking would be just a temporary thing, a little smack on the behind.
嗯，因为打屁股只是暂时的，只是打一下屁股而已。
Obviously, it worked.
显然，它奏效了。
Her regret over that whole incident-- she still feels it.
她对整个事件感到遗憾——她仍然有这种感觉。
And lots of other regret about Julia, also.
还有很多关于朱莉娅的其他遗憾。
Not long ago, Julia had a baby.
不久前，朱莉娅生了一个孩子。
And Elna and she are close now.
艾尔娜和她现在关系很亲密。
And Elna says she's spent 15 years apologizing to Julia.
艾尔娜说她花了 15 年时间向朱莉娅道歉。
And she says Julia's baby looks just like how Julia looked as a baby.
她说朱莉娅的孩子看起来就像朱莉娅小时候的样子。
And I would hold the baby and look at her, and she's so beautiful and so delicate.
我会抱着孩子看着她，她是那么美丽，那么精致。
But it made me remember holding and seeing Julia when she was a baby, and how much I hated Julia as a baby.
但这让我想起当朱莉娅还是个婴儿的时候，我抱着她并看到她，我是多么讨厌朱莉娅还是个婴儿。
Like, I hated that baby.
就像，我讨厌那个孩子。
And in my mind, I thought, uh, the feeling's mutual.
在我心里，我想，呃，这种感觉是相互的。
Like, I thought the baby hated me, and I hated the-- we just never got along, me and that baby.
就像，我以为那个孩子讨厌我，我也讨厌——我们从来没有相处过，我和那个孩子。
It's a baby.
这是一个婴儿。
The baby had no opinion about anything.
宝宝对任何事都没有意见。
So it wasn't just the things that Elna did to Julia that were painful to think about.
所以，令人痛苦的不仅仅是埃尔娜对朱莉娅所做的事情。
It was also-- what does this say about me that I felt this way about her, and that I did this to her?
我对她有这样的感觉，并且我对她做了这样的事，这说明了我的什么？
And how much have I changed?
而我改变了多少？
And Julia's moved on, and the rest of the family's moved on.
朱莉娅已经搬家了，家里的其他人也搬家了。
They joke about how Elna used to treat Julia.
他们开玩笑说埃尔娜过去是如何对待朱莉娅的。
Recently, Julia found an old workbook that she did, back when she was a Brownie-- in Girl Scouts, back in third grade.
最近，朱莉娅发现了一本她在三年级的女童子军中做的布朗尼练习册。
And there's this one page-- Elna Baker And the top of the page says, I wonder.
还有这一页——埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker） 页面顶部写着，我想知道。
And then, I wonder why, I wonder who, I wonder when.
然后，我想知道为什么，我想知道是谁，我想知道什么时候。
And you have to fill in the blanks.
你必须填补空白。
These are very general questions.
这些都是非常普遍的问题。
OK, yeah?
好吧，是吗？
And this is what Julia says.
这就是朱莉娅所说的。
I wonder why Elna is so mean to me.
我不知道为什么艾尔娜对我这么刻薄。
I wonder if anyone likes me.
我想知道有没有人喜欢我。
I wonder whether my sister loves me.
我想知道姐姐是否爱我。
I wonder how come Elna doesn't like me.
我想知道为什么艾尔娜不喜欢我。
I wonder where I could be happy.
我想知道我在哪里可以快乐。
You were awful.
你太糟糕了。
Elna Baker I was awful.
埃尔娜·贝克 我太糟糕了。
And she read it-- the whole family, everyone was laughing, everyone thought it was really funny.
她读了这本书——全家人都在笑，每个人都觉得这真的很有趣。
But I actually had to leave the room.
但我实际上不得不离开房间。
I just felt really bad.
我只是感觉很糟糕。
And I still feel really bad about it.
我仍然对此感到非常难过。
Some regrets just never go away, you know.
有些遗憾永远不会消失，你知道。
People tell us that they forgive us.
人们告诉我们他们原谅我们。
We try to forgive ourselves.
我们尝试原谅自己。
And we still know, we did wrong.
我们仍然知道，我们做错了。
We hurt somebody.
我们伤害了某人。
It was real.
这是真的。
And that feeling, it can immobilize you.
那种感觉会让你动弹不得。
If you're lucky, it teaches you something that you take into other situations.
如果你幸运的话，它会教给你一些可以运用到其他情况的东西。
But I think, often, it's just like this pebble in your shoe that teaches you nothing.
但我认为，很多时候，就像鞋里的鹅卵石一样，什么也教不了你。
It doesn't slow you down, really.
它不会让你放慢速度，真的。
It just hurts.
只是很痛。
It just hurts in this way that does not stop hurting.
它只是以这种方式疼痛，并且不会停止疼痛。
And today on our radio show, it is all about regret.
今天在我们的广播节目中，一切都是关于遗憾。
We're taking the title of today's episode from an old Frank Sinatra song.
我们今天这一集的标题取自弗兰克·辛纳屈 (Frank Sinatra) 的一首老歌。
This, of course, is from the song, "My Way." It's a song, I should say, I have never liked, except for that one line.
这当然是来自歌曲“My Way”。我应该说，这是一首我从来不喜欢的歌，除了那句台词。
(SINGING) Regrets, regrets, I've had a few.
（唱）遗憾，遗憾，我有过一些。
No matter who sings that line-- Aretha Franklin, Pavarotti--
不管这句歌词是谁唱的——艾瑞莎·富兰克林、帕瓦罗蒂——
That line always stands out in this bombastic, ridiculous song as the one sincere thought in the song.
这句台词在这首夸张、荒谬的歌曲中总是脱颖而出，成为歌曲中真诚的想法。
Though "My Way" is such a crap song that the line right after "Regrets, I've had a few" basically obliterates any sincere feeling of regret.
虽然《My Way》是一首垃圾歌，但“遗憾，我有过一些”之后的台词基本上抹杀了任何真诚的遗憾感。
It kills the one sincere moment in the song.
它扼杀了歌曲中一个真诚的时刻。
(SINGING) I've had a few.
（唱歌）我吃过一些。
But then again, too few to mention.
但话说回来，太少了，无法一提。
Oh, really?
哦真的吗？
Too few to mention?
太少了，无法提及？
Not me, buddy.
不是我，伙计。
Not most people.
不是大多数人。
If you don't have regrets, it means you haven't screwed up.
如果你不后悔，就说明你还没有搞砸。
It means you haven't had your heart broken.
这说明你的心还没有破碎。
It means you haven't been bloodied.
这说明你还没有流血。
It means you haven't failed, you haven't failed.
这说明你没有失败，你没有失败。
Like, why even live?
比如，为什么还要活着？
Why even live a life?
为什么还要过一种生活？
Today on our show, we live a life that's full.
今天在我们的节目中，我们过着充实的生活。
We travel each and every byway.
我们走每条小路。
At least, each and every byway that is full of regret.
至少，每一条路都充满遗憾。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
(SINGING) Much more than this, I did it--
（唱歌）我做到的远不止这些——
[MUSIC SLOWS AND DISTORTS] Act One: Tattoos and Memories and Dead Skin on Trial Ira Glass Act One, Tattoos and Memories and Dead Skin on Trial.
[音乐缓慢且扭曲] 第一幕：审判中的纹身、记忆和死皮 第一幕，审判中的纹身、记忆和死皮。
So if you're going to do a regrets show, why not start with a classic.
所以，如果你要做一场遗憾的演出，为什么不从经典开始呢？
Right?
正确的？
A classic regret.
经典的遗憾。
This story is about a tattoo that a guy decided he was not happy with anymore.
这个故事是关于一个男人决定不再满意的纹身。
If you're listening to our program on the podcast or on the internet, I just want to give you a heads up.
如果您正在播客或互联网上收听我们的节目，我只想提醒您一下。
There's cursing in here that we have not beeped.
这里有我们没有发出嘟嘟声的咒骂声。
If you prefer a beeped version of our program, you can hear that at our website, thisamericanlife.org.
如果您喜欢我们节目的嘟嘟声版本，您可以在我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org 上听到。
The story was put together by Emily Hsiao, with original music by Merel van Dijk and Anthony Barilla.
该故事由艾米丽·萧 (Emily Hsiao) 创作，梅雷尔·范·戴克 (Merel van Dijk) 和安东尼·巴里拉 (Anthony Barilla) 创作原创音乐。
[PHONE RINGING] Bruce Roderick Hello?
[电话铃声] 布鲁斯·罗德里克 你好？
Hi, Hannah!
嗨，汉娜！
Muffin, how you doing?
玛芬，你好吗？
Geez, I haven't heard from you in a while.
哎呀，我有一段时间没有收到你的消息了。
[INAUDIBLE].
[听不清]。
Bruce Roderick How you been?
布鲁斯·罗德里克 你过得怎么样？
Actually, I'm with this girl Emily right now that's interviewing me.
事实上，我现在和正在面试我的艾米丽女孩在一起。
She's a fucking college kid or something.
她他妈还是个大学生什么的。
She's interviewing me.
她正在采访我。
For what?
为了什么？
Bruce Roderick I don't know.
布鲁斯·罗德里克 我不知道。
She does a radio thing or something.
她做广播之类的事情。
She saw I have a ad in Craigslist about getting rid of the swastika tattoo I got.
她看到我在 Craigslist 上有一则关于去掉我身上的纳粹标志纹身的广告。
She wanted to know about that.
她想知道这件事。
So now she's all curious about prison.
所以现在她对监狱很好奇。
[INAUDIBLE].
[听不清]。
Bruce Roderick 24.
布鲁斯·罗德里克 24.
I'm not doing that.
我不会那样做。
What the fuck is wrong with you?
你到底怎么了？
I'm taking her home right now.
我现在就带她回家。
[LOUD BEEPING SOUND] Emily Hsiao Whenever you're ready.
[大声的嘟嘟声]Emily Hsiao 只要你准备好了。
I'm ready.
我准备好了。
Emily Hsiao I have to ask to turn the radio off because it's going to be distracting.
Emily Hsiao 我不得不要求关掉收音机，因为它会分散注意力。
And eventually after you smoke, if we could close the window?
最终在你吸烟之后，我们是否可以关上窗户？
Jesus Christ.
耶稣基督。
Is this going to be a trying experience?
这会是一次尝试的经历吗？
Uh, only if you make it a trying experience.
呃，只要你让它成为一次尝试的经历。
I think it should be relatively painless.
我想应该是相对无痛的。
Relatively painless.
相对无痛。
All righty.
好吧。
Let's start with the basics.
让我们从基础开始。
Can you tell me a little bit about yourself?
你能告诉我一些关于你自己的事吗？
I'm Bruce Roderick from Centerville.
我是来自森特维尔的布鲁斯·罗德里克。
I was born in Provincetown-- 1951, to Portuguese parents.
1951 年，我出生在普罗温斯敦，父母是葡萄牙人。
And I moved to Yarmouth in 1964.
1964 年我搬到了雅茅斯。
And what else?
还有什么？
What do you want me to say?
你想让我说什么？
Emily Hsiao I don't know, what were you going to say?
萧艾米莉 我不知道，你想说什么？
I thought you were here to look at my tattoo.
我以为你是来看我的纹身的
I have a small swastika tattoo on my left arm that I wish to have covered up.
我的左臂上有一个小纳粹标志纹身，我希望将其遮盖起来。
I cannot afford to pay what a tattoo shop is charging.
我付不起纹身店的收费。
It is only on a one square inch area.
它仅在一平方英寸的面积上。
Please, if you do tats on your own, call me or text me.
如果您自己纹身，请给我打电话或发短信。
I just want it covered up, blacked out.
我只是想把它盖起来，涂黑。
Nothing fancy.
没什么花哨的。
I did it when I was young and I want it off.
我年轻时就这么做过，我想把它关掉。
I just started using drugs when I was 15.
我15岁时才开始吸毒。
Summer kids coming down from New York in Provincetown.
夏季孩子们从纽约来到普罗温斯敦。
They being little rich kids, private schools, they were already using drugs, and they'd bring that shit down.
他们是有钱的小孩子，私立学校，他们已经在吸毒了，他们会把那些狗屎打倒。
And the town kids would get around them, and we'd start using it.
镇上的孩子们会绕过它们，我们就会开始使用它。
Sniffing glue, smoking pot, taking pills.
吸胶水、吸大麻、吃药。
And then it just progressed to other things.
然后它就发展到了其他事情。
I started using heroin, which I liked more than anything.
我开始吸食海洛因，我最喜欢它。
I just continued-- since that day, I've always done heroin.
我只是继续——从那天起，我就一直吸食海洛因。
I don't do anything else.
我不做任何其他事情。
I dropped out of school when I was 16.
我16岁时就辍学了。
Worked a little bit.
做了一点工作。
Then I started getting in trouble, and was a runaway living the streets of Boston.
然后我开始惹上麻烦，成为一名逃亡者，住在波士顿的街道上。
And started going to prison when I was 17.
我17岁时就开始入狱。
What was it for?
是做什么用的？
Bruce Roderick That was for a shooting and-- so on drugs.
布鲁斯·罗德里克 那是因为枪击和毒品等等。
Summer of '69, I believe-- '69, yeah.
69 年夏天，我相信——69 年，是的。
I was going to go to Woodstock, I got arrested that weekend.
我本来要去伍德斯托克，那个周末我被捕了。
I received three year sentence.
我被判三年徒刑。
I made parole, I was out for a month, I went back then.
我获得假释，出去一个月，然后就回去了。
And then I started robbing drug dealers.
然后我开始抢劫毒贩。
Wow.
哇。
What was robbing drug dealers like?
抢劫毒贩是怎样的体验？
How'd you do that?
你是怎么做到的？
I would knock on the door, they would open the door, I'd put a gun in their face, go into the house, and take the drugs.
我会敲门，他们会打开门，我会用枪指着他们的脸，然后进屋拿走毒品。
Have you ever killed anyone?
你杀过人吗？
Bruce Roderick No. Why would I sit here and admit to something like that anyway, if I did?
布鲁斯·罗德里克 不。如果我承认的话，我为什么要坐在这里承认这样的事情呢？
Yeah, good question.
是的，好问题。
Bruce Roderick Right?
布鲁斯·罗德里克 对吗？
I was robbing drug dealers, and that was my career right up until 1985, when I went to a house.
我一直在抢劫毒贩，这一直是我的职业，直到 1985 年我去了一所房子。
I went into a house in Centerville, and it was-- police were in the house.
我走进森特维尔的一所房子，发现警察在房子里。
They posed as drug dealers.
他们冒充毒贩。
And there was a confrontation in the house I ended up going to prison for.
房子里发生了一场冲突，我最终因此入狱。
I spent 12 years in jail on that one.
我就为了那件事在监狱里度过了12年。
Went back in again for selling heroin.
又回来贩卖海洛因。
Got out, went back in again for selling heroin.
出去了，又回来贩卖海洛因。
Now I just got out again.
现在我又出来了。
Now here I am, I been out two years.
现在我在这里，我已经出去两年了。
Almost three years.
快三年了。
This is the longest that I've been out here free and haven't been using.
这是我在这里免费使用但没有使用过的最长的一次。
What's prison like?
监狱是什么样的？
Bruce Roderick What's it like?
布鲁斯·罗德里克 那是什么样子？
Prison is very-- there's racial alliances.
监狱里充满了种族联盟。
You have to hang with your own kind.
你必须和自己的同类相处。
And if you let a black or a Spanish or somebody else not of your race to take advantage of you sexually or whatever, then you become a punk, I guess-- you want some gum?
如果你让一个黑人、西班牙人或其他非你种族的人在性方面或其他什么方面利用你，那么你就会变成一个朋克，我想——你想要一些口香糖吗？
Which means anybody can take whatever they want from you, because you didn't stick up for yourself.
这意味着任何人都可以从你那里得到他们想要的任何东西，因为你没有坚持自己。
You're fair game.
你是公平的游戏。
I think I even got some pictures here.
我想我什至在这里拍了一些照片。
Pictures from prison?
监狱里的照片？
Bruce Roderick Yeah, I got a couple, I think.
布鲁斯·罗德里克 是的，我想我有几个。
That's me when I was younger.
这就是年轻时的我。
I was a jailbird.
我是一名囚犯。
That's my niece, my niece.
那是我的侄女，我的侄女。
That's me in a bar in Boston.
那是我在波士顿的一家酒吧。
That's a jail picture.
那是监狱里的照片。
That was my father.
那是我的父亲。
That's me in my mother's house.
那是我在妈妈家里。
My parents were devastated.
我的父母很伤心。
No one in my family's ever gotten in trouble before.
我家里从来没有人遇到过麻烦。
But they always stuck by me.
但他们始终陪伴在我身边。
Do you think your parents should have practiced tougher love?
你认为你的父母应该实行更严厉的爱吗？
What, beat me more?
怎么，再打我一下？
What's tough love?
什么是严厉的爱？
They didn't say, yeah, yeah, here's $20, go get high-- no. My father was disgusted by my behavior.
他们没有说，是的，是的，这是 20 美元，去嗨吧——不。我的父亲对我的行为感到厌恶。
My mother was heartbroken.
我的母亲伤心欲绝。
I my mother's favorite.
我最喜欢妈妈了。
Of course not, they didn't want me to do the things that I did.
当然不是，他们不想让我做我所做的事情。
Well, you know, what are you going to do?
好吧，你知道，你要做什么？
You don't think of nothing else but yourself when you're doing those things you do.
当你做这些事情时，除了你自己，你不会想到其他任何事情。
This is North Fork Prison here.
这里是北福克监狱。
That's me there.
那就是我。
That's one of my good friends.
那是我的一位好朋友。
He's a dope fiend.
他是个吸毒狂。
This guy hung around for like 10 years, right?
这家伙已经混了快十年了吧？
And he was like my best friend, and I didn't know he was in for rape.
他就像我最好的朋友，我不知道他被强奸了。
And that's prison.
那就是监狱。
Whoa.
哇哦。
I haven't even gotten to your tattoo yet.
我还没去纹身呢
I've just been so enthralled.
我简直太着迷了。
There's the tattoo.
那里有纹身。
See it?
看到了吗？
It's not even that big, you can barely even see it.
它并没有那么大，你几乎看不到它。
And I got it done around 1986, '87.
我在 1986 年、87 年左右完成了它。
It was supposed to have white power.
它应该具有白色力量。
I was covering up a question mark I had right there when I was a kid.
我正在掩盖我小时候就有的一个问号。
And this guy, Willie Durette, he did a lot of my tattoos.
这个人，威利·杜雷特，他给我纹了很多纹身。
I think he was in my cell doing a tattoo for somebody else.
我认为他在我的牢房里为别人纹身。
And I had some biker book or something.
我还有一些骑自行车的书什么的。
When I saw that tattoo, I asked Willie if he could cover the question mark up a bit.
当我看到那个纹身时，我问威利是否可以把问号遮住一点。
And I put that on, and now I want this covered up.
我把它戴上，现在我想把它掩盖起来。
That's all I want, is that blacked out.
这就是我想要的，就是被黑掉。
Oh yeah, most of the white guys back then had swastikas.
哦，是的，当时大多数白人都有纳粹标志。
Swastikas are SWP-- Supreme White Power.
纳粹党徽是 SWP——最高白人权力。
FTW-- a lot of them had that.
FTW——他们中的很多人都有这样的经历。
That used to be another big one.
那曾经是另一件大事。
Fuck the world.
他妈的世界。
Did the swastika represent Nazi ideas in prison?
纳粹标志是否代表了监狱中的纳粹思想？
No, it doesn't represent nothing.
不，这并不代表什么。
It's just a fucking tattoo.
这只是一个该死的纹身。
I don't have anything against Jewish people.
我对犹太人没有任何敌意。
But that symbol, the swastika, says otherwise, right?
但那个符号，纳粹标志，却另有说法，对吧？
What does it mean to you?
这对你来说意味着什么？
Bruce Roderick I like the way it looks.
布鲁斯·罗德里克（Bruce Roderick）我喜欢它的外观。
I used to have a big flag.
我曾经有一面大旗。
Above my wall, I had a big swastika flag.
在我的墙上方，有一面巨大的纳粹标志旗。
I gave it to my roommate up in Revere before I moved out.
在我搬出去之前，我把它给了我在里维尔的室友。
But you know that it carries so many connotations?
但你知道它有这么多的内涵吗？
That's exactly why I'm taking it off my arm.
这正是我把它从手臂上取下来的原因。
I read an obituary about this Jewish guy that was in the camps.
我读到一篇关于集中营里的犹太人的讣告。
And this guy worked in the gas chambers, the showers.
这个家伙在毒气室、淋浴间工作。
They would take the bodies out of the shower and bring them to be burned.
他们会把尸体从浴室里拿出来烧掉。
This guy, that was his job.
这个家伙，这就是他的工作。
That's why he was able to survive.
这就是他能够活下来的原因。
He was in there towards the end of the war.
战争快结束时他就在那里。
But anyway, he just died recently.
但无论如何，他刚刚去世不久。
And in his obituary, it said he had written this book.
在他的讣告中，说这本书是他写的。
And I read the book.
我读了这本书。
And then, I just didn't want the tattoo anymore.
然后，我就不再想要纹身了。
Because it's a very offensive thing.
因为这是一件非常令人反感的事情。
And I am getting older.
而且我正在变老。
I don't want to die and have God see that on my arm.
我不想死后让上帝看到我手臂上的东西。
I spent over 30 years in prison.
我在监狱里度过了30多年。
I'd like to have those years back.
我想回到那些年。
I never had any kids.
我从来没有孩子。
My mother and father are both dead.
我的母亲和父亲都去世了。
They never saw me succeed in nothing.
他们从未见过我一事无成。
I'm 61, I don't have shit for money.
我已经61岁了，我没有钱。
All of a sudden, I woke up and I was 60 years old.
突然，我一觉醒来，我已经60岁了。
It just flew by.
它就这样飞过去了。
The time flew right by, all behind drugs.
时间过得真快，一切都在毒品的背后。
And that's it.
就是这样。
Are we done?
我们完成了吗？
I'm sorry.
对不起。
Bruce Roderick But where are you going?
布鲁斯·罗德里克但是你要去哪里？
Where do you have to go?
你必须去哪里？
I'll give you a ride, I'm saying.
我会载你一程，我是说。
This interview is over.
这次采访结束了。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
That's OK.
没关系。
Bruce Roderick Did it go all right?
布鲁斯·罗德里克 一切顺利吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Bruce Roderick We gotta defrost.
布鲁斯·罗德里克 我们得除霜。
All right.
好的。
What did you think, I'm a dirty racist?
你怎么看，我是一个卑鄙的种族主义者？
I didn't know.
我不知道。
Bruce Roderick What do you think now?
布鲁斯·罗德里克 你现在怎么想？
Still that dirty racist?
还是那个肮脏的种族主义者？
You still got that fucking thing on?
你还带着那该死的东西吗？
Yeah.
是的。
I do.
我愿意。
Right on.
就在。
Bruce Roderick All right.
布鲁斯·罗德里克 好吧。
You gotta get out of here.
你必须离开这里。
OK, thanks.
好的，谢谢。
Bruce Roderick My patience is wearing thin.
布鲁斯·罗德里克 我的耐心正在消失。
Take care.
小心。
Bruce Roderick You better say I'm a nice fucking guy in this.
布鲁斯·罗德里克（Bruce Roderick） 你最好说我在这方面是一个好人。
What's up, [INAUDIBLE].
怎么了，[听不清]。
Why the fuck didn't you go pick up Charlie that day?
那天你他妈的为什么不去接查理？
He is so fucking pissed.
他真他妈的生气了。
Ira Glass That story by Emily Hsiao-- it's one of the very first radio stories she's ever made.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 艾米丽·萧 (Emily Hsiao) 的故事——这是她制作的最早的广播故事之一。
She created it at something called the Transom Story Workshop, which takes people who have never done radio-- in eight weeks, it trains them to make stories in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.
她在一个名为 Transom Story Workshop 的地方创作了这个节目，该工作室邀请从未做过广播的人，在八周内训练他们在马萨诸塞州伍兹霍尔制作故事。
You can Google Transom Story Workshop, if you're curious about that.
如果你对此感到好奇，你可以谷歌横梁故事研讨会。
The music was created for the story by Merel van Dijk and Anthony Barilla from the band Merel & Tony.
音乐由 Merel & Tony 乐队的 Merel van Dijk 和 Anthony Barilla 为故事创作。
You can find other music of theirs on SoundCloud-- Merel and Tony.
您可以在 SoundCloud 上找到他们的其他音乐——Merel 和 Tony。
We first aired this story back in 2014.
我们于 2014 年首次播出这个故事。
Since then, Bruce found somebody to black out his tattoo.
从那时起，布鲁斯就找人把他的纹身涂黑了。
Coming up, a story with original songs by Stephin Merritt.
即将推出由斯蒂芬·梅里特创作的原创歌曲的故事。
I'll explain what that's about after the break.
休息后我会解释这是什么意思。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
This American Life .
这美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
On today's show, our theme, of course--
今天节目的主题当然是——
That's right.
没错。
Stories of regret.
遗憾的故事。
We've arrived at Act Two of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two-- This is Just as Hard for Me as It is for You.
第二幕——这对我来说和对你一样困难。
One of the most basic parts of being a parent is trying to sort through a bunch of options and figure out what is going to be best for your kids.
作为父母最基本的部分之一就是尝试对一系列选项进行排序，并找出最适合您的孩子的选项。
Everything from what foods they should eat to where you're going to live so they'll have decent schools.
从他们应该吃什么食物到你要住在哪里以便他们拥有像样的学校等一切。
This next story is about a father trying to do that, trying to figure out what's best for his children, and having some regrets about how things worked out.
下一个故事讲述的是一位父亲试图这样做，试图找出对孩子最好的办法，并对事情的结果感到有些遗憾。
His name is Will Ream.
他的名字叫威尔·雷姆。
And the choices Will has had to make have been pretty dramatic ones.
威尔必须做出的选择非常戏剧性。
And to tell a story, we're going to try something that we have never attempted before.
为了讲一个故事，我们将尝试一些我们以前从未尝试过的事情。
We asked a songwriter, a great songwriter-- Stephin Merritt, from the band The Magnetic Fields, and other bands also-- to collaborate with us.
我们邀请了一位作曲家，一位伟大的作曲家——来自磁场乐队和其他乐队的斯蒂芬·梅里特——与我们合作。
And mostly, as you'll hear, Stephin has composed music that's going to run underneath the narration and the quotes, like we always have in our stories.
大多数情况下，正如您所听到的，斯蒂芬创作了在旁白和引语下方运行的音乐，就像我们在故事中一直做的那样。
Like the music that we had written for Act One of our show today.
就像我们今天为节目第一幕写的音乐一样。
Though in a couple places-- and really, it's just a few places-- Stephin wrote songs.
尽管在几个地方——实际上，只是几个地方——斯蒂芬写过歌。
Like, real songs, with words, that he'll sing.
就像他会唱的真正的有歌词的歌曲一样。
(SINGING) I'll sing something that sounds like this.
（唱歌）我会唱一些听起来像这样的歌。
So during the story that you're about to hear, when Stephin is singing, he's going to be singing things that the dad in the story, Will Ream, actually said.
所以在你即将听到的故事中，当斯蒂芬唱歌时，他会唱故事中的父亲威尔·雷姆实际上说过的话。
The lyrics are all verbatim quotes.
歌词全部是逐字引述。
Or they're as close to it as Stephin could get within the structure of a song.
或者说它们是斯蒂芬在歌曲结构中所能达到的最接近的程度。
One of our producers, Miki Meek, first encountered Will Ream when Will Ream had just left everything he had ever known.
我们的制作人之一米基·米克（Miki Meek）第一次遇到威尔·雷姆时，威尔·雷姆刚刚离开了他所知道的一切。
He had grown up in this incredibly isolated town called Colorado City, in the deserts of northern Arizona.
他在亚利桑那州北部沙漠中的科罗拉多城这个极其偏僻的小镇长大。
He'd been raised inside this religious group there-- a fundamentalist group, a whole community of people that had split off from the mainstream Mormon church over a century ago.
他是在这个宗教团体中长大的——一个原教旨主义团体，一个多世纪前从主流摩门教教会分裂出来的整个社区。
Has lived out there in Colorado City in the desert since.
从那时起就住在沙漠中的科罗拉多城。
So here is the story.
这就是故事。
Here's Miki.
这是米基。
So when I first met Will in 2012, he was living in a rundown house outside of Salt Lake City, sleeping on a mattress on the floor, and just trying to figure out how to start his life over.
所以，当我在 2012 年第一次见到威尔时，他住在盐湖城郊外的一所破旧房子里，睡在地板上的床垫上，只是想弄清楚如何重新开始他的生活。
He wasn't even sure how he'd gotten to this point, because three years earlier, he was a married man living in Colorado City.
他甚至不知道自己是怎么走到这一步的，因为三年前，他是一个住在科罗拉多城的已婚男人。
He and his wife had four girls and a little boy, and they were surrounded by family and people he'd gone to church with his whole life.
他和他的妻子有四个女孩和一个小男孩，他们周围都是家人和他一生都去教堂的人。
He was happy.
他很高兴。
But then things started getting strange at church.
但后来教堂里的事情开始变得奇怪。
Church leaders went into this weird paranoid mode, seeing outside threats everywhere, and in everything.
教会领袖进入了这种奇怪的偏执模式，认为外部威胁无处不在、无处不在。
And they began to ask Will and some other men to do all sorts of stuff they hadn't asked for before.
他们开始要求威尔和其他一些人做各种他们以前没有要求过的事情。
The church leadership had people it wanted to intimidate.
教会领导层想要恐吓一些人。
These were former church members, and people who were questioning them.
这些人是前教会成员，以及质疑他们的人。
So they'd send Will and these other guys from church out in the middle of the night to vandalize these people's stuff-- disable farm equipment, change locks on gates.
所以他们会在半夜派威尔和教堂里的其他人去破坏这些人的东西——破坏农场设备，换大门锁。
And the church told Will and the other men-- you can't tell your wives.
教会告诉威尔和其他人——你不能告诉你的妻子。
My gut reaction was if I am married to her, then we are supposed to be as one.
我的直觉反应是，如果我和她结婚了，那么我们就应该是一体的。
So why am I supposed to keep secrets from her?
那么我为什么要对她保守秘密呢？
Because it seems to me like that would be detrimental to our relationship.
因为在我看来，这会损害我们的关系。
Did you ask that?
你问过这个吗？
Did you feel like you could ask that?
你觉得你可以这样问吗？
I couldn't ask that.
我不能问这个。
Miki Meek That's just not something that was done?
Miki Meek 这不是已经完成的事情吗？
Will says, he felt like he and his wife had a good marriage, that they were close.
威尔说，他觉得自己和妻子的婚姻很美好，关系很亲密。
And now here he was, leaving in the middle of the night and staying out for hours, and not telling her why.
而现在他就在这里，半夜离开，在外面待了好几个小时，却没有告诉她原因。
Church leaders told Will, you don't owe her an explanation.
教会领袖告诉威尔，你不欠她一个解释。
If she wants answers, she should pray harder.
如果她想要答案，她应该更加努力地祈祷。
Even for a young religious wife who was used to a man being the final word, this was too much.
即使对于一个习惯了男人说了算的年轻宗教妻子来说，这也太过分了。
It dragged on for almost a year.
就这么拖了快一年了。
She would say, like, what were you guys doing last night?
她会说，比如，你们昨晚在做什么？
And I would say, I can't tell you.
我想说，我不能告诉你。
Or, a man doesn't need to tell his wife everything.
或者说，男人不需要把一切都告诉妻子。
And I would use that line that they told me, which, now-- even just now, when I said it, it makes me go tense.
我会用他们告诉我的那句话，现在——即使是现在，当我说这句话时，它让我变得紧张。
That's something that hurts, that I was that stupid.
这是一件很痛苦的事情，我是如此愚蠢。
And there were quite a few nights where I remember she would be really distraught.
我记得有好几个晚上她真的心烦意乱。
And she would go into the bathroom, into the shower, and just weep it out.
她会走进浴室，冲进淋浴间，然后就哭出来。
And I would turn my back on her.
我会转身背对她。
And force myself to not feel.
并强迫自己不要有感觉。
If there was anything I could ever do to take that back, I would have.
如果我能做些什么来收回那句话，我会的。
But I drove her to a place where she was very depressed, and very hurt, because she loved me with all her heart.
但我却把她带到了一个让她非常沮丧、非常受伤的地方，因为她全心全意地爱着我。
If I'd known at that point what I was choosing at that point, if I was choosing her or the church, I would have chosen her.
如果我当时知道我当时会选择什么，如果我选择她或教会，我就会选择她。
But I didn't even realize it was really that big of a problem at that point.
但当时我什至没有意识到这确实是一个大问题。
One day Will came home from work and his wife was gone.
有一天威尔下班回家，他的妻子不见了。
She left him a note saying she needed to think.
她给他留了一张纸条，说她需要考虑一下。
He tried to work it out with her for a year and a half after that.
此后一年半的时间里，他试图与她一起解决这个问题。
She even moved back home for a while.
她甚至搬回家一段时间。
But in the end, Will says she wanted nothing to do with her old life.
但最终，威尔说她不想与以前的生活有任何关系。
She didn't want to be a mom or a wife, and she checked out on Will and their five kids.
她不想成为母亲或妻子，她检查了威尔和他们的五个孩子。
She wouldn't talk to me for this story.
她不会跟我谈论这个故事。
But Will says they had gotten married when she was 15.
但威尔说他们在她 15 岁时就结婚了。
So when she left him, she was still in her early 20s.
所以当她离开他的时候，她才20岁出头。
She had never experienced anything outside the church.
她从未经历过教堂之外的任何事情。
Now she started seeing other men, and drinking.
现在她开始约会其他男人并喝酒。
Will was devastated, and he resented the church for causing their breakup.
威尔悲痛欲绝，他怨恨教会导致他们的破裂。
And things were getting even weirder at church.
教堂里的事情变得更加奇怪。
Will's particular branch of fundamentalist Mormonism is headed by the Prophet Warren Jeffs.
威尔的原教旨主义摩门教分支由先知沃伦·杰夫斯领导。
You may have heard of him.
你可能听说过他。
He got investigated in Utah, Arizona, and Texas for sexual assault and marrying underage girls.
他因性侵犯和娶未成年女孩而在犹他州、亚利桑那州和德克萨斯州受到调查。
He was sentenced to life in prison.
他被判处终身监禁。
Will and the other followers were told if they had enough faith, God would release Jeffs from prison.
威尔和其他追随者被告知，如果他们有足够的信心，上帝就会把杰夫斯从监狱里释放出来。
And so to test their faith, lots of strange new rules came down.
因此，为了考验他们的信仰，许多奇怪的新规则出台了。
Don't eat sugar.
不要吃糖。
Only wear homemade clothing-- and it can't be the color red.
只能穿自制的衣服——而且不能是红色的。
Will remembers one Sunday, a new set of rules came down, specifically aimed at everyone's kids.
威尔记得一个周日，一套新的规则出台，专门针对每个人的孩子。
They talked about how the kids weren't supposed to play.
他们谈论孩子们不应该玩耍。
I think that was probably one of the biggest things for me, was they weren't supposed to play just to have fun anymore.
我认为这对我来说可能是最重要的事情之一，他们不应该只是为了玩得开心而玩。
They were asking the people to get rid of their children's toys, and to not allow them to ride their bicycles.
他们要求人们扔掉孩子们的玩具，并不允许他们骑自行车。
They basically were saying that we needed to sacrifice everything that meant anything to us.
他们基本上是说我们需要牺牲对我们来说意义重大的一切。
Everything from our desires to our physical belongings to our homes to our families to everything.
从我们的欲望到我们的物质财产，到我们的家，到我们的家人，一切。
We needed to be willing to sacrifice everything for the good of the prophet.
我们需要愿意为了先知的利益而牺牲一切。
I just remember leaving that place feeling like shit, thinking, is this really what I want?
我只记得离开那个地方感觉很糟糕，心想，这真的是我想要的吗？
Is this really what I want for my kids?
这真的是我想要给我的孩子的吗？
Will got desperate.
威尔绝望了。
He reached out to his bishop at church.
他联系了教堂的主教。
I told him, I says, I need some help here.
我告诉他，我说，我这里需要一些帮助。
I'm losing it.
我快要失去它了。
And he just says, you need to pray more.
他只是说，你需要更多地祈祷。
You need to get over it.
你需要克服它。
That's all he said-- you need to pray more.
这就是他所说的——你需要更多地祈祷。
And I just thought about that, and I thought, huh.
我只是想到了这一点，我想，嗯。
You're turning into what I used-- or you're giving me what I used to give my wife.
你正在变成我所用的东西——或者你正在给我我曾经给我妻子的东西。
And there was no life left in me at that point.
那时我已经没有生命了。
I would walk at 2, 3, 4 o'clock in the morning.
我会在凌晨2点、3点、4点散步。
All through the night, just pace, walk up in the canyons, walk just everywhere, just trying to get some kind of clarity.
整个夜晚，只是踱步，在峡谷中行走，到处走走，只是想获得某种清晰度。
(SINGING) I had this big blank sheet of paper, where I was going to write my reasons to live.
（唱）我有一张大白纸，我要在上面写下我活下去的理由。
Or why not end it all today?
或者为什么不在今天结束这一切呢？
And kids was the only reason I could give.
孩子是我能给的唯一理由。
I felt betrayed by my religion, and by the only person I had ever loved, and opened up to.
我感到自己被我的宗教背叛了，被我唯一爱过、向我敞开心扉的人背叛了。
You bet I felt betrayed.
你敢打赌我感到被背叛了。
They all said pray.
他们都说祈祷。
Yeah, well, I prayed.
是的，好吧，我祈祷了。
I've had the knife sitting in front of me.
我已经把刀放在我面前了。
I've had the pills sitting in front of me.
我的面前已经放着药片了。
And I've been sitting right up on the cliff's edge, with one foot dangling off the ledge.
我一直坐在悬崖边缘，一只脚悬在悬崖上。
And kids was the only reason I could give.
孩子是我能给的唯一理由。
They all said pray.
他们都说祈祷。
Yeah, well, I prayed.
是的，好吧，我祈祷了。
When the church told kids they weren't allowed to play, that was the last straw for Will.
当教堂告诉孩子们不允许他们玩耍时，这是压垮威尔的最后一根稻草。
He'd already lost his wife, and now his whole life was about trying to make things OK for his kids again.
他已经失去了妻子，现在他的全部生活就是努力让孩子们再次过上好日子。
He had a radical thought-- maybe they just had to get out and start over.
他有一个激进的想法——也许他们必须出去重新开始。
So on his 33rd birthday, Will loaded his kids into a van, and they headed north.
因此，在他 33 岁生日那天，威尔把他的孩子们装进一辆货车，然后他们向北行驶。
Once they got 20 miles away, he stopped the car and explained to his kids what he was doing.
当他们离开 20 英里后，他停下车并向孩子们解释他在做什么。
I says, we're going to go and make a life for ourselves somewhere else.
我说，我们要去别的地方谋生。
I asked them how they felt about that.
我问他们对此有何感想。
And they all said that they wanted to come and build a new life.
他们都说他们想来这里建立新的生活。
Were you scared at all at that time?
你当时有没有害怕过？
Did you doubt yourself at all?
你有没有怀疑过自己？
I wondered.
我想知道。
Oh yeah.
哦，是的。
I really did.
我真的做到了。
I wondered if we were all going to be destroyed tomorrow, and I screwed up.
我想知道明天我们是否都会被摧毁，但我搞砸了。
Maybe a week from now.
也许从现在起一周后。
But I actually felt like hope.
但我实际上感受到了希望。
It was genuine hope for the first time in a long time, that I could give them another shot at life.
这是很长一段时间以来第一次真正的希望，我能给他们一次生命的机会。
It was like taking a breath of air after you've had your head under water.
这就像把头浸入水后呼吸空气一样。
You know?
你知道？
Will ended up way north in a city called Ogden, not far from Salt Lake.
威尔最终来到了北方一座名叫奥格登的城市，距离盐湖不远。
He and his kids moved into a small apartment, and started living among regular people for the first time.
他和孩子们搬进了一间小公寓，第一次开始与普通人一起生活。
Doing stuff regular people do, like going to the movies.
做一些普通人会做的事情，比如看电影。
We went and saw Despicable Me , and it was in 3D.
我们去看了《神偷奶爸》，它是 3D 的。
And it was the first movie they'd ever seen in their life.
这是他们一生中看过的第一部电影。
And I was watching them jump, bouncing in their seats and giggling and laughing, and jumping backwards when it looked like stuff was coming out of the screen.
我看着他们跳来跳去，在座位上跳来跳去，咯咯地笑，当看起来有东西从屏幕中出来时，我又向后跳。
And I watched them more than I watched the movie.
我看他们的时间比看电影的时间还多。
And I got to see them be genuinely happy, and not get put in check.
我必须看到他们真正快乐，而不是受到限制。
And to just be a child.
并只是一个孩子。
And it was amazing.
这太棒了。
The four girls all cut their hair.
四个女孩都剪了头发。
They painted their nails and got their ears pierced.
他们涂了指甲，打了耳洞。
All of that was forbidden back where they used to live.
在他们以前居住的地方，这一切都是被禁止的。
And for the first time in their lives, they played with kids who weren't fundamentalists.
他们有生以来第一次与非原教旨主义者的孩子一起玩耍。
Back in their old lives, they had names for people like that-- Gentiles, apostates, wicked.
在他们过去的生活中，他们对这样的人有这样的称呼——外邦人、背道者、邪恶者。
Well, we were at a park in Ogden one time.
嗯，有一次我们在奥格登的一个公园。
And they were playing on the swings, and there were some other children there.
他们正在秋千上玩耍，那里还有其他一些孩子。
And one of the other children's mothers came up, and was helping them and stuff.
另外一个孩子的母亲走了过来，正在帮助他们什么的。
And I came walking up, and my oldest daughter was like, dad, you know, the wicked people are pretty nice.
我走过去，我的大女儿说，爸爸，你知道，邪恶的人都很好。
And the other lady just glared at me.
另一位女士只是瞪着我。
And I was just like, I'm sorry.
我当时就想，对不起。
I didn't really know what to say.
我真的不知道该说什么。
Yeah, I didn't really know what to say.
是啊，我真的不知道该说什么。
And I just says, hon, these people aren't wicked.
我只是说，亲爱的，这些人并不邪恶。
They're just like us.
他们就像我们一样。
And they would ask me all of the time, so are we apostates now?
他们总是问我，我们现在是叛教者吗？
Are we Gentiles now?
我们现在是外邦人吗？
So they were concerned about being able to go to heaven.
所以他们担心能否去天堂。
Like, you'd hear them talking about it between themselves.
就像，你会听到他们互相谈论这件事。
They would be like, we went to a movie, and movies are wicked, so we're wicked people.
他们会说，我们去看了电影，电影是邪恶的，所以我们是邪恶的人。
And one of the other ones would say, no, we're not wicked people.
其中一个会说，不，我们不是邪恶的人。
That was fun.
那很有趣。
Dad said it was OK.
爸爸说没关系。
(SINGING) Back in Colorado City, we did not associate with colored people.
（唱歌）回到科罗拉多城，我们不与有色人种交往。
But in Ogden, it's OK.
但在奥格登，一切都还好。
These two kids who spoke Swahilli-- we all had this barbecue, and my girls loved them.
这两个讲斯瓦希里语的孩子——我们都吃了烧烤，我的女儿们很喜欢。
It was just like night and day, seeing my kids play.
看着我的孩子们玩耍，就像白天和黑夜一样。
Back in Colorado City, wearing shorts is like rebelling before God.
回到科罗拉多城，穿短裤就像在上帝面前叛逆。
But in Ogden, they don't care, so we wore just what we wanted.
但在奥格登，他们不在乎，所以我们就穿我们想要的。
Girls went shopping, skirts and dresses, and played music.
女孩们去购物，穿裙子和裙子，并演奏音乐。
We could never do that there.
我们在那里永远无法做到这一点。
Every one would stare.
每个人都会盯着看。
We couldn't wear red, because maybe that's what Jesus would wear.
我们不能穿红色，因为也许耶稣会穿红色。
We couldn't wear anything bought in a store.
我们不能穿在商店买的任何东西。
We couldn't eat sugar, play games.
我们不能吃糖，不能玩游戏。
The kids couldn't have toys, or doing anything fun anymore.
孩子们不能再有玩具，也不能再做任何有趣的事情了。
But in Ogden, we had parties.
但在奥格登，我们举办派对。
And the older kids went on roller coasters.
大一点的孩子则去坐过山车。
And they went and got their hair done.
他们去理发了。
They had a good summer, a fun summer.
他们度过了一个美好的夏天，一个有趣的夏天。
But when fall came, it was like reality hit.
但当秋天到来时，就像现实一样。
The kids were going to public school for the first time in their lives.
孩子们有生以来第一次上公立学校。
They'd been home-schooled before that.
在此之前，他们一直在家接受教育。
And Will decided to go to school, too.
威尔也决定去上学。
He only had an eighth grade education, so he got his GED, and then enrolled as a freshman at the local college.
他只受过八年级教育，因此获得了 GED，然后在当地大学就读一年级。
It was incredibly tough for Will, trying to hold everything together, the five kids, by himself.
对于威尔来说，试图独自维持五个孩子的一切是非常困难的。
When he left the restrictions of their old life, he also left behind all the love and support that came with it.
当他离开了旧生活的限制时，他也离开了随之而来的所有爱和支持。
For the first time in Will's life, he had no family members, no church members, nobody to come over and watch his kids for a night, or to bring a meal.
威尔有生以来第一次没有家人，没有教会成员，没有人过来照顾他的孩子过夜，也没有人给他送饭。
He'd been living in this tightly knit small town, where everybody looked out for each other, where everybody had known him since he was a kid.
他一直生活在这个联系紧密的小镇里，每个人都互相照顾，每个人从他小时候起就认识他。
And now, he was far away, and they'd all completely cut him off.
而现在，他已经远离了，他们都彻底切断了他的联系。
One of his sisters called him up one day just to tell him that she'd never talk to him again.
有一天，他的一个姐妹打电话给他，只是告诉他她再也不会和他说话了。
Will got increasingly overwhelmed.
威尔越来越不知所措。
He couldn't see how things were going to work out.
他不知道事情会如何发展。
He had no long-term plan for how to support himself and these five children.
对于如何养活自己和这五个孩子，他并没有长远的计划。
They were living off his savings, because he was in school.
他们靠他的积蓄生活，因为他在上学。
All his energy had gone into figuring out how to get out.
他所有的精力都花在了如何出去上。
And they got out, but now what?
他们出去了，但现在怎么办？
One day in class, Will lost it.
有一天，在课堂上，威尔迷失了。
Just something snapped.
只是有什么东西断了。
I just broke down.
我刚刚崩溃了。
I started weeping, and I couldn't stop.
我开始哭泣，无法停止。
It was really hard, and incredibly lonely, when you're 33 years old, to learn how to live again.
当你 33 岁的时候，要重新学习如何生活，真的很困难，而且非常孤独。
To basically start from square one.
基本上从第一方开始。
Will went home and curled up on the couch for three or four hours, crying.
威尔回到家，蜷缩在沙发上哭了三四个小时。
Then he went and picked up his kids from school.
然后他去学校接孩子们。
And then, I started making dinner.
然后，我开始做晚饭。
And then, it was like I was kind of out of it.
然后，我就好像有点脱离了。
And when I came back to, I just started looking around.
当我回过神来时，我开始环顾四周。
And I asked my oldest daughter, did you check on the food in the oven?
我问我的大女儿，你检查过烤箱里的食物吗？
And she's like, we already ate, Dad.
她说，我们已经吃过饭了，爸爸。
I looked around, and my oldest daughter had gotten the dinner out of the oven, and served the children and fed them.
我环顾四周，我的大女儿已经把晚餐从烤箱里拿出来，给孩子们端上饭，喂他们吃饭。
And they were done, and she'd cleared the dishes off the table, and they were sitting in the seat.
他们都吃完了，她把桌子上的盘子收拾干净，他们坐在座位上。
And I realized it was three hours later.
我意识到已经是三个小时后了。
It freaked me out.
这把我吓坏了。
Will thinks that for three hours, he was just standing in one spot in the kitchen, as his kids walked around him and served themselves dinner.
威尔认为，三个小时里，他只是站在厨房的一个地方，而他的孩子们围着他走，为自己准备晚餐。
In those three hours, Will could have set fire to the casserole, or the apartment.
在这三个小时里，威尔可能会放火烧掉砂锅，或者公寓。
A lot could have gone wrong.
很多事情都可能出错。
Will's only goal at this point in his life was to be a good dad to these kids.
威尔此时此生唯一的目标就是成为这些孩子的好爸爸。
Now he felt like he was putting them in real danger.
现在他觉得自己正将他们置于真正的危险之中。
His five kids were all young.
他的五个孩子都很小。
The oldest was 11, and the youngest was four.
最大的11岁，最小的4岁。
I am not stable, he thought.
我不稳定，他想。
So Will started talking to some counselors.
于是威尔开始与一些辅导员交谈。
They told him that his situation was serious.
他们告诉他，他的情况很严重。
He needed to let someone help him care for his kids.
他需要有人帮助他照顾孩子。
So he started looking for help.
于是他开始寻求帮助。
And within a week, Will's friends-- families he was just getting to know-- agreed to let his kids live with them, just for a little while, just until Will got back on his feet.
一周之内，威尔的朋友——他刚刚认识的家人——同意让他的孩子和他们住在一起，只是一小段时间，直到威尔重新站起来。
Will tried to explain this to his kids-- that he wasn't doing so well, that he needed someone to help with them.
威尔试图向他的孩子们解释这一点——他做得不太好，他需要有人帮助他们。
And then his 11-year-old piped up.
然后他 11 岁的孩子大声说道。
And that's when she says, well, I can, Dad.
就在那时她说，好吧，我可以，爸爸。
And it just made me feel worse.
这让我感觉更糟。
And I just told her, I says, I can't allow you to do that.
我只是告诉她，我说，我不能允许你这样做。
I can't.
我不能。
I says, you need to be a kid.
我说，你得像个孩子一样。
They didn't understand.
他们不明白。
I mean, they're just like, well, a week?
我的意思是，他们就像，嗯，一周？
Do we get to come home next weekend?
下周末我们能回家吗？
And it was hard.
这很难。
Because I couldn't give them a period of time.
因为我给不了他们一段时间。
I didn't know.
我不知道。
And I was just hoping that somehow, some way, that I would just grow back.
我只是希望以某种方式，以某种方式，我能重新长大。
That I would be able to, that I'd be able to stand up and take care of it.
我能够做到，我能够站起来处理这件事。
That's not what happened, though.
但事实并非如此。
What was supposed to be temporary turned into two years.
原本应该是暂时的变成了两年。
That's when I first talked to Will.
那是我第一次和威尔谈话的时候。
He was living in a house with a beat-up couch and a mattress and not a lot more, and doing pretty badly.
他住在一所房子里，只有一张破旧的沙发和一张床垫，除此之外就没有其他东西了，而且过得相当糟糕。
He'd dropped out of school and taken a construction job to support the family.
他辍学并从事建筑工作来养家糊口。
But it just wasn't enough.
但这还不够。
He'd spiraled into a depression where all he could do was work and sleep.
他陷入了抑郁症，他唯一能做的就是工作和睡觉。
This is from that first interview.
这是第一次采访的内容。
I'll still have some pretty bad lows, some pretty bad days sometimes, where I need to just kind of disappear into the ether and think about things.
我仍然会遇到一些非常糟糕的低谷，有时会遇到一些非常糟糕的日子，我需要消失在以太中并思考事情。
And it's really hard.
这真的很难。
Really hard for me to deal with.
对我来说确实很难对付。
I feel like I've failed, kind of.
我觉得我有点失败了。
Where I'm not taking care of my kids anymore, my family's not together anymore, stuff like that.
我不再照顾我的孩子，我的家人也不再在一起，诸如此类。
It feels like I've had to admit failure, which is hard.
感觉就像我不得不承认失败，这很难。
But I always identified myself as their dad.
但我始终认为自己是他们的父亲。
But hopefully, I can get into a place where-- I'd really like to be dad again.
但希望我能进入一个我真的很想再次成为父亲的境地。
His daughters were only 20 minutes away, but it was hard for Will to see them.
他的女儿们距离酒店只有 20 分钟路程，但威尔很难见到她们。
He'd go over and read books and play games with them.
他会去看书，和他们一起玩游戏。
And then when he had to leave, they'd always ask, when do we get to come home?
然后当他不得不离开时，他们总是会问，我们什么时候能回家？
Will never had an answer for them.
永远不会给他们答案。
His life was still a mess.
他的生活仍然一团糟。
And so he'd drive away, feeling totally wrecked that he'd let them down.
于是他开车离开，因为自己让他们失望了而感到彻底崩溃。
Will started going to see them less often, because it was so painful.
威尔开始减少去看他们的次数，因为那太痛苦了。
And because it seemed like the more he stayed away, the better they did.
因为看起来他越远离，他们就做得越好。
Seeing him raised upsetting questions.
看到他提出了令人不安的问题。
And when he stayed away, they thrived, settled into their new lives, and made friends.
当他离开时，他们茁壮成长，开始了新的生活，并结交了朋友。
They played soccer, which the girls never would have done, back in their old community in Colorado City.
她们踢足球，而回到科罗拉多城的老社区，女孩们永远不会踢足球。
They got to be kids.
他们必须是孩子。
And so Will came to a hard, awful conclusion.
因此威尔得出了一个艰难而可怕的结论。
He needed to let them move on, without the question of coming home always hanging over their heads.
他需要让他们继续前进，而不是让回家的问题始终悬在他们的头上。
And so after they've been living with their new families for two years, Will waived his parental rights.
因此，在他们与新家庭生活两年后，威尔放弃了他的父母权利。
He let the families adopt his kids.
他让家人收养他的孩子。
Giving up your kids, you gave them a better life.
放弃孩子，你给了他们更好的生活。
But it didn't necessarily do that exact thing for you.
但它并不一定会为你做同样的事情。
It didn't do that exact thing for me.
它并没有为我做那件事。
But that's OK.
但没关系。
I'm fine with that.
我对此很满意。
Because they have what I wanted them to have now.
因为他们现在拥有我希望他们拥有的东西。
They have what I couldn't give them otherwise.
他们拥有我无法给予他们的东西。
Will had done what he originally wanted to do when he left Colorado City.
威尔离开科罗拉多城时就做了他原本想做的事。
He'd given his kids a better life.
他给了孩子们更好的生活。
The girls' adopted mom told me that his daughters now see that's what he intended, that he'd tried to do what was best for them, though it took them a while to see it that way.
女孩们的养母告诉我，他的女儿们现在明白这就是他的意图，他试图做对她们最有利的事情，尽管她们花了一段时间才这么认为。
It's gotten easier for Will to visit his kids and Skype with them.
威尔可以更轻松地探望他的孩子并与他们一起使用 Skype。
He used to keep all their photos boxed up.
他过去常常把他们所有的照片都装起来。
It was too hard to look at them.
看着他们太困难了。
But now his bedroom shelves are lined with their pictures.
但现在他卧室的架子上摆满了他们的照片。
The kids' adopted families live farther away now.
孩子们的收养家庭现在住得更远了。
That's hard.
那很难。
The son is now in southern Utah, and his four daughters are in another state.
儿子现在在犹他州南部，他的四个女儿在另一个州。
And so Will took a job driving oil trucks in Texas and North Dakota.
因此，威尔在德克萨斯州和北达科他州找到了一份驾驶油卡车的工作。
The pay was better, and he no longer had a reason to stick around Salt Lake full time.
薪水更好了，他不再有理由全职留在盐湖城。
At each point since leaving Colorado City, Will made what seemed like the best choice for his family.
自从离开科罗拉多城以来，威尔每次都做出了对家人来说似乎最好的选择。
But as a result, he doesn't have a family anymore.
但结果是，他不再有家人了。
I miss them.
我想念他们。
All day, every day.
一整天，每一天。
They've never left my mind.
他们从未离开过我的脑海。
I think about the way they used to laugh.
我想起他们以前笑的样子。
Their little oddities, the weird little things they would say.
他们的小奇怪之处，他们会说的奇怪的小事情。
The way they would walk, when they learned to walk.
当他们学会走路时，他们会走路的方式。
How long their mom was in labor with them, the way they looked when they were born.
他们的妈妈生了他们多久，他们出生时的样子。
If you could somehow go back in time, would you?
如果你能以某种方式回到过去，你会吗？
If I could go back and have everything that I've experienced been removed from my plate, and just dropped straight back into that, into the same mindset-- I might.
如果我可以回去，把我所经历的一切从我的盘子里拿走，然后直接回到原来的状态，回到同样的心态——我可能会这么做。
It was a good life.
那是美好的生活。
I refer to that point in my life as having everything, back when I had everything.
我把生命中的那个时刻称为拥有一切，那时我拥有一切。
And that was the pinnacle of my life.
那是我人生的顶峰。
That was when everything made sense, and I had everything I ever wanted.
那时一切都有意义了，我拥有了我想要的一切。
(SINGING) I've lost hope, and I lost my youth.
（唱）我失去了希望，失去了青春。
Lost my church and my hold on truth.
失去了我的教会和我对真理的坚持。
I lost my health.
我失去了健康。
I can't do nine to five.
我不能朝九晚五。
But I could still drive.
但我仍然可以开车。
I started life again at 33.
33岁，我重新开始了生活。
I hauled my ass to Texas to be me.
我把我的屁股拖到德克萨斯州做我自己。
To save my sanity.
为了拯救我的理智。
I lost my family.
我失去了我的家人。
All the doors slammed shut.
所有的门都关上了。
I know who I am, but I'm not sure what.
我知道我是谁，但我不确定我是什么。
I did what I had to do to survive.
我做了为了生存必须做的事。
I don't sleep too well, but I can still drive.
我睡得不太好，但我还能开车。
Original songs and scoring by Stephin Merritt, with Sam Davol on cello and glockenspiel.
原创歌曲和配乐由斯蒂芬·梅里特 (Stephin Merritt) 创作，萨姆·达沃尔 (Sam Davol) 演奏大提琴和钟琴。
Pinky Weitzman on viola.
平基·韦茨曼演奏中提琴。
Engineering by Charles Newman.
查尔斯·纽曼的工程。
Miki Meek reported this story.
米基·米克报道了这个故事。
Miki is one of the producers of our show.
Miki 是我们节目的制作人之一。
[MUSIC - "GAME CALLED LIFE" BY LEFTOVER CUTIES]
[音乐-“游戏叫生活”，作者：剩女们]
Our program was produced today by Chana Joffe-Walt with Sean Cole, Stephanie Foo, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Chana Joffe-Walt 与 Sean Cole、Stephanie Foo、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Brian Reed、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
The senior producer for today show's was Julie Snyder.
今天节目的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Our editor is Joel Lovell.
我们的编辑是乔尔·洛弗尔。
Our technical director is Matt Tierney.
我们的技术总监是马特·蒂尔尼。
Production help from Lilly Sullivan.
莉莉·沙利文 (Lilly Sullivan) 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our director of operations.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our production manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson is our business operation manager.
Elise Bergerson 是我们的业务运营经理。
Elna Baker scouts stories for the show.
艾尔娜·贝克为节目寻找故事。
Kimberly Henderson is our office coordinator.
Kimberly Henderson 是我们的办公室协调员。
Research help from Michelle Harris, Christopher Swetala, and Julie Beer.
米歇尔·哈里斯、克里斯托弗·斯维塔拉和朱莉·比尔提供了研究帮助。
Music help today from Damien Graef.
今天达米安·格雷夫 (Damien Graef) 提供音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGMENTS] In the years since we first ran our story about Will Ream, the guy in the last act-- he's now back in Salt Lake, working a construction job.
[致谢] 自从我们第一次报道最后一幕中的威尔·雷姆 (Will Ream) 的故事以来的几年里，他现在回到了盐湖城，从事建筑工作。
He says they're all doing well.
他说他们都做得很好。
Our website-- thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站——thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 向公共广播电台播出。
You know who puts baby in a corner?
你知道谁把婴儿放在角落里吗？
He is the one who put baby in a corner.
他是那个把婴儿放在角落里的人。
Like he always says--
就像他常说的那样——
Like, I hated that baby.
就像，我讨厌那个孩子。
And in my mind, I thought, the feeling's mutual.
我想，在我看来，这种感觉是相互的。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life .
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。