534: A Not-So-Simple Majority - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #534 | June 23, 2017 534: A Not-So-Simple Majority Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 534 集 | 2017 年 6 月 23 日 534：不那么简单的多数注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
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Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Well, this week, in these troubled and divisive political times, we have this not very typical example of majority rule and what a mess it can make.
序言艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）好吧，本周，在这个陷入困境和分裂的政治时代，我们看到了这个不太典型的多数统治的例子，以及它可能造成的混乱。
Our story takes place in a suburban school district an hour north of New York City, East Ramapo, New York.
我们的故事发生在纽约市东拉马波以北一小时车程的郊区学区。
Picture yards, strip-mall sprawl, box stores.
想象庭院、杂乱无章的商业街、盒子商店。
Super diverse.
超级多样化。
You've got big Latino and Haitian and African American populations, some white enclaves, working-class and poor and well-off areas.
这里有大量拉丁裔、海地人和非裔美国人，还有一些白人飞地、工人阶级以及贫穷和富裕地区。
And for a long time now, Hasids have been moving in in large numbers.
很长一段时间以来，哈西德派一直在大量迁入。
Hasids are ultra-religious Jews.
哈西德派是极端虔诚的犹太人。
You've seen the ones in the long black coats and the hats.
你已经看到那些穿着黑色长外套和帽子的人了。
The men have beards.
男人们都留着胡子。
The women keep their heads covered in public.
妇女们在公共场合都蒙着头。
Like the Amish, they prefer to keep to themselves, so they don't send their kids to public schools.
像阿米什人一样，他们更喜欢独来独往，所以他们不会把孩子送到公立学校。
They send them to religious schools called yeshivas, where Yiddish is spoken as the primary language.
他们将他们送到名为“yeshivas”的宗教学校，那里的主要语言是意第绪语。
And in East Ramapo, mostly the Hasids are poor.
在东拉马波，哈西德派大多很穷。
They're lower middle class.
他们是中下阶层。
And here was their situation.
这就是他们的处境。
Because they're living in the suburbs, they're paying high property taxes, which, of course, are high because they're paying for local public schools, which their kids don't go to.
因为他们住在郊区，所以要缴纳高额财产税，当然，财产税之所以高，是因为他们要为当地的公立学校付费，而他们的孩子不去这些学校。
And then they're also paying for these private schools, these yeshivas.
然后他们还为这些私立学校、这些犹太学校付费。
So they're getting squeezed, right?
所以他们被挤压了，对吧？
And as the Hasidic population got bigger and bigger, that became an issue.
随着哈西德派人口越来越多，这成为一个问题。
Because in New York, these suburban school district budgets go up for a public vote.
因为在纽约，这些郊区学区的预算会通过公众投票而增加。
As the Hasids numbers increase, there were enough of them that they could conceivably go to the polls and vote down the school budget, force cuts.
随着哈西德派人数的增加，他们的人数足够多，可以想象他们可以去投票站投票否决学校预算，强制削减预算。
Though, kind of remarkably, that did not happen.
然而，令人惊奇的是，这并没有发生。
And it didn't happen because the public schools and the Hasids worked out a deal, a truce.
但这并没有发生，因为公立学校和哈西德派达成了一项协议，达成了休战协议。
Steve White is an activist in school board politics in town.
史蒂夫·怀特（Steve White）是镇上学校董事会政治活动的积极分子。
The original deal that was made many, many years ago was, if we don't investigate whether or not there's education going on in the yeshivas, then the rabbis won't tell their people to vote down our school budget.
很多很多年前达成的最初协议是，如果我们不调查犹太学院是否正在进行教育，那么拉比就不会告诉他们的人民投票否决我们的学校预算。
In other words, the school board won't call in the state to check and see if math and reading and history are being properly taught in the yeshivas, like the state mandates, if the Hasids would just stay away from the polls.
换句话说，如果哈西德家族不参与投票，学校董事会就不会要求该州检查数学、阅读和历史是否按照该州的规定在犹太学院进行了适当的教学。
Jason Friedman was superintendent for East Ramapo schools for eight years.
贾森·弗里德曼 (Jason Friedman) 担任东拉马波学校的校长已有八年。
He says the truce is actually even cruder than that.
他说休战实际上比这更残酷。
He says that the yeshivas are entitled to money from public school budgets for certain things like buses and books.
他说，犹太学院有权从公立学校预算中获得资金来购买某些东西，例如公共汽车和书籍。
And he says the deal was to give the Jewish schools as much money as was legal.
他说，这笔交易是为了给犹太学校提供合法的尽可能多的资金。
Friedman says he would regularly meet with Hasidic rabbis and yeshiva administrators.
弗里德曼说，他会定期会见哈西德派拉比和犹太学院的管理者。
His pitch was always, we will give you whatever we can.
他的主张始终是，我们将竭尽全力为您提供帮助。
Just don't vote down our budgets.
只是不要投票否决我们的预算。
I think that's what we all worked at.
我想这就是我们大家努力的方向。
We tried to work out a quid pro quo situation.
我们试图达成一个交换条件。
We could probably never ask a non-public school family to come out and vote yes on a budget.
我们可能永远无法要求非公立学校家庭出来对预算投赞成票。
Our hope was that they wouldn't come out, that they would stay away.
我们希望他们不要出来，远离他们。
So the Hasidic population grew.
因此，哈西德派的人口不断增长。
And here's a curious demographic fact about East Ramapo.
这是关于东拉马波的一个奇怪的人口统计事实。
Most of the people in East Ramapo were not Hasids, but most of the children were.
东拉马波的大多数人不是哈西德派，但大多数孩子是。
Two out of three children in the school district were Hasidic.
学区内三分之二的孩子是哈西德派。
And the Hasids felt cheated because property taxes kept going up to pay for these schools that most of the kids in the district did not attend.
哈西德家族感到被欺骗了，因为为了支付这些学校的学费，财产税不断上涨，而该地区的大多数孩子都没有上学。
And also, the monies and services that the public schools were supposed to be giving the Hasidic schools, they didn't feel like it was enough.
而且，公立学校本应向哈西德派学校提供的资金和服务，他们觉得还不够。
So the detente ended.
于是缓和局势结束了。
Our story this week is about what happened once it fell apart.
本周我们的故事是关于它崩溃后发生的事情。
And I should say, if you think that you have heard your share of stories about school board fights, what happened next, I totally assure you was like nothing you have probably seen in any school district anywhere.
我应该说，如果你认为你已经听过有关学校董事会斗争的故事，那么接下来发生的事情，我完全向你保证，你可能在任何学区都没有见过这种情况。
Because it raised such basic questions.
因为它提出了如此基本的问题。
It's usually, you know, just a given in our country that people who don't drive still pay taxes for roads, and people who hate the outdoors pay for public parks, and people without kids in the public schools pay for the public schools.
你知道，在我们国家，通常不开车的人仍然要缴纳道路税，讨厌户外活动的人还要缴纳公园税，而没有孩子在公立学校上学的人还要缴纳公立学校的税。
Just that's the deal.
就是这样。
We all know it.
我们都知道。
And so what happens when people who do not want to pay for the public schools take over the school board?
那么，当那些不想为公立学校付费的人接管学校董事会时会发生什么呢？
We're devoting our whole hour to this today.
今天我们把一小时的时间都花在了这件事上。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
If, by the way, you're listening to this by podcast or internet, there is some cursing in this show, and we have unbeeped the curses in this internet version of the episode.
顺便说一句，如果您通过播客或互联网收听此节目，则该节目中存在一些咒骂，并且我们已取消了该集的互联网版本中的咒骂声。
If you prefer a beeped episode, you can get that at our website.
如果您喜欢有蜂鸣声的剧集，可以在我们的网站上获取。
Ben Calhoun spent months visiting East Ramapo over the course of 2013 and 2014.
本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun) 在 2013 年和 2014 年期间花了几个月时间访问东拉马波。
This is a rerun of our show from a few years ago.
这是我们几年前节目的重播。
He tells the story.
他讲述了这个故事。
The dispute that finally shattered the truth in East Ramapo-- there's no way around this-- it's kind of regulate-y and fussy.
最终粉碎东拉马波真相的争论——没有办法解决——这是一种监管和挑剔。
But this is what ended the peace, what sent the East Ramapo school district into a political brawl that's lasted years.
但这就是结束和平的原因，也是导致东拉马波学区陷入持续数年政治争斗的原因。
The dispute had to do with special ed students-- Hasidic special ed students.
这场争议与特殊教育学生——哈西德特殊教育学生有关。
It was fully in the hands of the district to be a mensch and to do things the right way.
成为一个正人君子并以正确的方式做事完全掌握在该地区的手中。
They simply refused.
他们只是拒绝了。
Yossi Gestetner is a political operative, an activist, in the Hasidic communities.
约西·盖斯特纳 (Yossi Gestetner) 是哈西德派社区的一名政治活动家、活动家。
He said the problem had to do with the fact that Hasidic special ed students, like other special ed kids, they need expensive therapies and services and education.
他说，这个问题与哈西德特殊教育学生和其他特殊教育学生一样，他们需要昂贵的治疗、服务和教育。
And the government will pay for those, is required to pay for them.
政府将支付这些费用，也必须支付这些费用。
But for that to happen, the district would usually require that the kids go into a public school setting.
但要做到这一点，学区通常会要求孩子们进入公立学校。
The Hasidic and the ultra-Orthodox live in closed communities.
哈西德派和极端正统派生活在封闭的社区中。
And the private yeshivas they send their children to are all Hasidic kids.
他们送孩子去的私立犹太学院都是哈西德派的孩子。
So just picture-- you're a Hasidic parent with a special needs kid-- maybe with developmental and emotional issues-- and people are telling you, you want to get your kid the help they need, you gotta yank them out of the environment where they're the most comfortable-- the only environment they've ever known-- and send them elsewhere.
所以，想象一下——你是一位哈西德派家长，有一个有特殊需要的孩子——可能有发育和情感问题——人们告诉你，你想让你的孩子得到他们需要的帮助，你必须把他们从他们最舒服的环境——他们唯一熟悉的环境——中拉出来，然后把他们送到别处。
The parents just want to make sure that the children go to an environment and in a school, an institution, where the language spoken is the language they understand best, the tradition, the religion, and the culture.
父母只是想确保孩子们去一个环境、学校、机构，那里所说的语言是他们最理解的语言、传统、宗教和文化。
The way they see it is the state has an obligation to provide the education, and some special needs students get up to $27,000 in funding.
他们认为，国家有义务提供教育，一些有特殊需要的学生可以获得高达 27,000 美元的资助。
Take this $27,000, put it into a different institution, an institution which works for the parent and for the child, a place where it helps the student and the parents best-- especially if it doesn't cost an extra nickel for the taxpayers.
把这 27,000 美元投入到另一个机构，一个为家长和孩子服务的机构，一个对学生和家长最好的帮助的地方——特别是如果纳税人不需要多花一分钱的话。
In other words, you're going to spend the money anyways.
换句话说，无论如何你都会花这个钱。
What do you care if it goes to a yeshiva?
如果它去了犹太学院，你关心什么？
But it's not that simple.
但事情没那么简单。
You can't do that because of federal education regulations.
由于联邦教育法规，你不能这样做。
The government says if it's going to pay for special ed students, then they have to be placed in mainstream environments as much as possible.
政府表示，如果要为特殊教育学生付费，那么就必须尽可能将他们安置在主流环境中。
Congress made that the law because, for years, our country had a real problem-- that special ed kids were being warehoused and isolated.
国会之所以制定这项法律，是因为多年来我们的国家面临着一个真正的问题——特殊教育的孩子被关在仓库里并被隔离。
And according to the law, public schools are just considered to be more mainstream than private religious schools.
根据法律，公立学校只是被认为比私立宗教学校更主流。
So in East Ramapo, Hasidic parents would often go to the school district and they'd ask for their special ed children to be put in private yeshivas using government money.
因此，在东拉马波，哈西德派的父母经常去学区，要求使用政府资金将他们的特殊教育孩子送入私立犹太学校。
The school district would say, sorry, we have to follow the law, and the law says no-- which I brought up with Yossi Gestetner.
学区会说，抱歉，我们必须遵守法律，但法律说不——这是我和 Yossi Gestetner 一起提出的。
You know, the law just has a very clear--
你知道，法律有非常明确的规定——
Yeah, but I don't-- Ben Calhoun --and distinct preference for keeping them in a public setting.
是的，但我不——本·卡尔霍恩——并且明显偏爱将它们放在公共场合。
First of all, if the law tortures the children, the law should be changed.
首先，如果法律折磨孩子，就应该修改法律。
So don't throw around "the law." I mean, law was used to agitate against people all the time.
所以不要乱扔“法律”。我的意思是，法律一直被用来煽动反对人们。
So if the law is broken, don't force the district to spend a million dollars to fight this damn law.
因此，如果法律被违反，请不要强迫学区花费一百万美元来对抗这项该死的法律。
Change the law and finish.
修改法律并完成。
It's never an argument to me-- like, well, it's against the law.
这对我来说从来都不是一个争论——就像，嗯，这是违法的。
So change the damn law.
所以改变该死的法律。
These complaints and frustrations grew and grew year after year.
这些抱怨和挫败感年复一年地增长。
And so did the Hasidic and ultra-Orthodox population.
哈西德派和极端正统派人口也是如此。
Eventually, that population was at a point where it wasn't big enough to do what Gestetner is saying-- change the damn law-- but it was big enough to do something else.
最终，这个人口数量还不足以去做盖斯特纳所说的事情——改变该死的法律——但它已经足够大了，可以做其他事情。
When it started to matter to the Orthodox, I guess, that they would win-- I want to show you some of these numbers.
我想，当东正教开始重视他们会获胜时——我想向您展示其中一些数字。
This is Mimi Calhoun.
这是咪咪·卡尔霍恩。
She's a former East Ramapo school parent elected to the school board in 2004.
她曾是东拉马波学校的一名家长，2004 年当选为学校董事会成员。
She showed me the school board voting results from the last few decades, how things changed around 2007, 2008, when the Hasidim made a move for control of the school system by taking over the school board.
她向我展示了过去几十年学校董事会的投票结果，以及2007年和2008年左右情况的变化，当时哈西德派通过接管学校董事会来控制学校系统。
I want to just say, when you hear these totals, the numbers are going to maybe sound small.
我只想说，当你听到这些总数时，这些数字可能听起来很小。
Remember, these are suburban school board elections.
请记住，这些是郊区学校董事会选举。
People winning with a few thousand or even a few hundred votes-- that's the norm in any district around here.
人们以几千甚至几百票获胜——这在这附近的任何地区都是常态。
I had about 3,000 votes.
我有大约 3,000 票。
My opponent had about 2,000.
我的对手有大约2,000。
And those were sort of the numbers that we had.
这些就是我们所掌握的数字。
A total of maybe 5,000 people voted.
总共大约有 5,000 人投票。
The next year, when Aron Wieder ran--
第二年，当阿伦·维德竞选时——
Aron Wieder was one of the first Hasidic candidates elected to the board.
阿伦·维德 (Aron Wieder) 是第一批当选董事会成员的哈西德派候选人之一。
--he had 6,000 votes, double what I had.
——他有 6,000 票，是我的两倍。
That was astonishing.
这太令人惊讶了。
Our numbers stayed about the same, 2,000 or 3,000, and the Orthodox votes tripled.
我们的人数保持不变，2,000 或 3,000，而东正教的选票增加了两倍。
And then their numbers just started increasing.
然后他们的数量开始增加。
It was almost scary the way they-- it's like, no matter what we did-- like, if we could bring out 5,000 votes, they could bring out 7,000 votes.
他们的方式几乎令人恐惧——就像，无论我们做什么——就像，如果我们能带来 5,000 票，他们也能带来 7,000 票。
It was almost as if they could calculate how many people we might be able to get to, and they could bring out that many more people.
就好像他们可以计算出我们可以接触到多少人，然后他们就可以带出更多的人。
This is Suzanne Young-Mercer.
我是苏珊娜·杨·默瑟。
She's another former school board member.
她是另一位前学校董事会成员。
And like she's saying, it's remarkable to look at these elections, to see how the totals start climbing after 2007.
正如她所说，看看这些选举，看看 2007 年之后总数如何开始攀升，真是太了不起了。
It makes me think of that Bugs Bunny cartoon with Elmer Fudd, where they're racing up in the barber chairs.
这让我想起了兔八哥和埃尔默·福德的动画片，他们在理发椅上赛跑。
Vote totals go from 5,000 to 8,000, 13,000 16,000 18,000.
投票总数从 5,000 到 8,000、13,000 16,000 18,000 不等。
You can see both sides turn it up, though the Hasidic-backed candidate's always a little bit out front.
你可以看到双方都在努力，尽管哈西德派支持的候选人总是有点领先。
Lots of people on the public school side talk about this with bitterness and awe.
公立学校方面的很多人都带着痛苦和敬畏的心情谈论此事。
They tell these stories about Hasidic voters dressed in black filing out of buses.
他们讲述了哈西德派选民身着黑衣从公交车上鱼贯而出的故事。
If my husband was here, he'd say, when he was out in front of the schools handing out stuff, he remembers that someone on the religious side got on a telephone and called to say they needed more people out here to vote.
如果我丈夫在这里，他会说，当他在学校门前分发东西时，他记得宗教方面的某个人打电话说他们需要更多的人来这里投票。
And he said, within minutes, he felt like it was like a sea of people just showed up and were voting.
他说，几分钟之内，他感觉就像有一大群人出现并投票。
Organized political takeover.
有组织的政治接管。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
The takeover was gradual.
接管是渐进的。
The East Ramapo school board has nine members, but only three seats go up for election every year.
东拉马波学校董事会有九名成员，但每年只有三个席位进行选举。
By 2008, the majority was six Hasidic/ultra-Orthodox, three traditional public school folks.
到 2008 年，大多数人是六名哈西德派/极端正统派人士，其中三名是传统公立学校的学生。
Once the Hasidic majority took control, at first many of the ways it started to remake the district were incremental-- changes to personnel and administration here and there.
哈西德派多数派取得控制权后，起初它开始重塑该地区的许多方式都是渐进式的——对各处的人事和行政管理进行改变。
Kind of quickly, though, restricting the budget and reining in property taxes became a preoccupation.
不过，限制预算和控制财产税很快就成为当务之急。
The school board determines the property tax levy when it sets its budget.
学校董事会在制定预算时决定财产税的征收。
Controlling taxes meant trimming corners off the budget, dropping extracurriculars, sports teams, cutting music teachers in elementary schools.
控制税收意味着削减预算、取消课外活动、运动队、裁减小学音乐教师。
They heard that six of their music teachers are going to be cut.
他们听说六名音乐老师将被裁掉。
In response, parents and students started to get involved, showing up at board meetings to criticize and question.
作为回应，家长和学生开始参与进来，出现在董事会会议上提出批评和质疑。
Grumbling and grousing spiked in this whole new way when the Hasidic-dominated board predicted declining enrollment for the district.
当哈西德派主导的董事会预测该地区的入学率下降时，抱怨和牢骚以这种全新的方式激增。
And as a result, it planned to close two schools.
结果，它计划关闭两所学校。
Don't close our schools.
不要关闭我们的学校。
Ben Calhoun With all the growth in the Hasidic community, people knew there was an intense need for land and buildings for private Jewish schools.
本·卡尔霍恩 随着哈西德派社区的不断发展，人们知道私立犹太学校对土地和建筑的需求非常迫切。
So almost immediately, there was speculation the shuttered public buildings would be sold to yeshivas.
因此，几乎立刻就有猜测称，关闭的公共建筑将被出售给犹太学院。
Gradually, the boardroom took on a new dynamic.
渐渐地，会议室里出现了新的活力。
(SHOUTING) I am a student here!
（喊叫）我是这里的学生！
You need to listen to me!
你需要听我的！
Eventually, on one side of the room, you'd have the public school parents and students.
最终，在房间的一侧，你会看到公立学校的家长和学生。
They're mostly black, Latino, some recent immigrants, many poor.
他们大多是黑人、拉丁裔，还有一些新移民，其中很多是穷人。
More than 70% of students qualify for free and reduced lunch.
超过 70% 的学生有资格享受免费和减价午餐。
And then up on the dais, you'd have the Hasidic/Orthodox majority, governing the future of a school system that they'd never send their own kids to.
然后在讲台上，哈西德派/东正教占多数，他们统治着一个他们永远不会把自己的孩子送去的学校系统的未来。
Amid the mounting controversy, the Hasidic majority started this regular routine, saying the board needed to go into executive session-- private session in a back room.
在日益激烈的争议中，哈西德派多数派开始了这一例行程序，称董事会需要召开行政会议——在后台举行的私人会议。
No executive!
没有执行官！
School Board Member [INAUDIBLE] --sustained.
学校董事会成员[听不清]——持续。
It's 5 to 1.
是 5 比 1。
We're going to go to executive session.
我们要去参加执行会议。
[BOOING AND JEERING] Ben Calhoun The board would stay locked away for hours on end.
[嘘声和嘲笑声] 本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun) 董事会会连续几个小时被锁起来。
Two hours, three hours.
两个小时，三个小时。
And with the board gone, parents and students who had school and work the next day, they'd be left waiting in the boardroom until 11, 12 o'clock at night, waiting for a chance to speak.
董事会离开后，第二天还要上学上班的家长和学生就只能在董事会会议室里等待，直到晚上 11 点、12 点，等待发言的机会。
Steadily, the wounds and the bruises and the contentious issues multiplied.
伤口、瘀伤和有争议的问题逐渐增加。
But if there was a real shot across the bow, one move that transformed a nasty feud into an all-out war, it came down to one particular board meeting, one night, and this dramatic personnel change.
但如果真的有一次真正的枪击事件，一个将令人讨厌的不和变成一场全面战争的举动，那么它归结为一次特定的董事会会议，一个晚上，以及这次戏剧性的人事变动。
[DOOR OPENING] November 18, 2009.
[开门] 2009 年 11 月 18 日。
This is the board meeting where all this happened.
这就是这一切发生的董事会会议。
At the meeting, the board did what had become so usual.
在会议上，董事会做了惯常的事情。
It called for an executive session and it started walking out.
它要求召开一次行政会议，然后开始退出。
But as that happened, something unusual took place.
但当这一切发生时，一些不寻常的事情发生了。
The remaining, quote unquote, "public school advocates" on the board-- this is the minority-- they stopped on their way out of the room.
董事会上剩下的“公立学校倡导者”——这是少数——他们在走出房间的路上停了下来。
Generally, they didn't associate with the activists and the parents who'd show up.
一般来说，他们不会与活动人士和出现的家长来往。
But tonight, they walked right up to them, and they pleaded.
但今晚，他们径直走到他们面前，恳求他们。
Essentially, what they said was, no matter how long we're behind closed doors, whatever you do tonight, please do not leave.
本质上，他们所说的是，无论我们关门多久，无论你今晚做什么，请不要离开。
Executive session.
执行会议。
Going back [?
回去[?
for the ?] meeting.
为了？]会议。
The board didn't come back into the room until nearly a quarter to 1:00 in the morning.
直到凌晨1:00左右，董事会才回到房间。
And when they get back, what gets put on the table is this kind of puzzling proposal to fire the district's law firm of many years and hire a new guy.
当他们回来时，摆在桌面上的是这种令人费解的提议，即解雇该地区多年的律师事务所并雇用一个新人。
And I say puzzling because listen to the specifics.
我说令人费解是因为听听具体情况。
The old lawyer was a local guy, had gone to school in the district, even.
老律师是本地人，甚至在该地区上过学。
He'd done the system's legal work for years and years.
他多年来一直从事该系统的法律工作。
And the administration, by every account that I've heard, they really liked him.
而政府，根据我听到的每一个说法，他们真的很喜欢他。
He charged $120 an hour.
他每小时收费 120 美元。
The new lawyer was a guy named Al D'Agostino.
新来的律师名叫阿尔·达戈斯蒂诺。
He was from out on Long Island, more than an hour away.
他来自长岛，距离这里有一个多小时的路程。
And his contract, it would be for $250 an hour, plus $125 an hour for travel.
他的合同是每小时 250 美元，外加每小时 125 美元的旅费。
Add to that this.
添加到此。
The new guy had been caught up in a pension investigation by the state of New York.
这位新人卷入了纽约州的一项养老金调查。
Not exactly desirable.
不太理想。
And a confusing move, right?
这是一个令人困惑的举动，对吧？
Especially if money is a concern.
特别是如果钱是一个问题的话。
But people in the room were not confused when this came up.
但当这个问题出现时，房间里的人并不感到困惑。
They knew very well who D'Agostino was.
他们非常清楚达戈斯蒂诺是谁。
D'Agostino had recently been in the news for representing another school district, one in Lawrence, Long Island.
达戈斯蒂诺最近因代表另一个学区（位于长岛劳伦斯的一个学区）而成为新闻焦点。
D'Agostino had been involved in a controversial plan that that board was trying to push through-- a plan to close a school.
达戈斯蒂诺参与了该委员会试图推动的一项有争议的计划——关闭一所学校的计划。
The public school board, made up primarily of Orthodox Jewish members who send their kids to private school.
公立学校董事会主要由正统犹太教成员组成，他们将孩子送到私立学校。
A few months ago, the board voted to shut this elementary school.
几个月前，董事会投票决定关闭这所小学。
Parents out in Lawrence alleged the plan was to close the school in question and then sell it to a yeshiva.
劳伦斯的家长声称，该计划是关闭相关学校，然后将其出售给犹太学院。
And in fact, it would later be sold to a yeshiva.
事实上，它后来被卖给了犹太学院。
Attorney Albert D'Agostino says the board has every right to close the school and reassign the kids.
律师阿尔伯特·达戈斯蒂诺表示，董事会完全有权关闭学校并重新分配孩子们。
And rumors that it will be sold to a Jewish yeshiva are just rumors.
关于它将被出售给犹太犹太教学院的传言也只是谣言。
Right now, the only decision that's been made is that it will be closed and mothballed.
目前，唯一做出的决定是将其关闭并封存。
So prior to this meeting, people in Lawrence, Long Island, had been in touch with the public school crowd in East Ramapo.
因此，在这次会议之前，长岛劳伦斯的人们已经与东拉马波的公立学校人群进行了接触。
They said, this lawyer is helping our school board do these controversial things.
他们说，这位律师正在帮助我们学校董事会做这些有争议的事情。
First, they're shutting the school.
首先，他们要关闭学校。
And also, he's doing this thing where he's helping them put special education students in private yeshivas using public money.
而且，他正在做这件事，帮助他们使用公共资金将特殊教育学生安置在私立犹太学院。
Anyway, we've heard your district might hire him.
不管怎样，我们听说你们的学区可能会雇用他。
We wanted to warn you.
我们想警告你。
In the video of this meeting from this night in East Ramapo, as soon as the majority proposes changing law firms, things unravel super fast.
在今晚东拉马波会议的视频中，一旦大多数人提议更换律师事务所，事情就会很快崩溃。
Before you know it, pretty much everyone other than the Hasidic majority is trying to stop the hiring of the new lawyer.
在你意识到之前，除了哈西德派多数派之外，几乎所有人都在试图阻止雇用新律师。
The superintendent projects that hiring D'Agostino will cost the cash-strapped district as much as $900,000 more per year.
主管预计，雇用达戈斯蒂诺将使该学区每年多花费 90 万美元。
Remember, this is already a district that's trimming its budget.
请记住，这个地区已经在削减预算了。
The superintendent and the public school advocates on the board, they ask over and over just where is that money going to come from?
校长和董事会中的公立学校倡导者，他们一遍又一遍地问这些钱从哪里来？
While all that's happening, the half dozen public school parents and activists left in the room, they heckle the board.
当这一切发生时，六名公立学校的家长和活动人士离开了房间，他们质问董事会。
Crooks!
骗子！
Ben Calhoun Sometimes they just shout the board down.
本·卡尔霍恩（Ben Calhoun） 有时他们只是大声喊叫板子放下。
Shame!
耻辱！
Parent And you're trying to save the district money?
家长 你想为学区省钱吗？
Shame!
耻辱！
Parent How could you even think of that?
家长你怎么能想到这一点？
God is watching you.
上帝正在注视着你。
Parent That is disgusting!
家长太恶心了！
God is watching you.
上帝正在注视着你。
Parent That is absolutely disgusting.
家长这真是太恶心了。
And is he going to do the same thing for East Ramapo he's doing for Lawrence, New York?
他会为东拉马波做与纽约劳伦斯一样的事情吗？
Perhaps no one tries more desperately to put the brakes on this whole thing than the superintendent at the time.
也许没有人比当时的负责人更拼命地试图阻止这一切。
He argues and he pleads and he says, we don't have the money.
他争论，他恳求，他说，我们没有钱。
He also says this whole plan is half-baked and sloppy.
他还表示，整个计划是不成熟且草率的。
He points out that there's no strategy to hand off the district's current cases from the old lawyers to the new one.
他指出，没有策略将该地区当前的案件从老律师手中移交给新律师。
I've heard nothing about a transition plan.
我没有听说过任何有关过渡计划的消息。
He says, in disbelief, the district has cases in court tomorrow.
他难以置信地表示，该地区明天将有案件上法庭。
There's no reason to do this so hastily.
没有理由如此仓促地这样做。
You should table this now.
你现在应该把这个表起来。
You're talking millions of dollars.
你说的是数百万美元。
You can't, as a board, change attorneys overnight.
作为董事会，你不可能在一夜之间更换律师。
I take that back.
我收回这句话。
You can.
你可以。
You have the right to do that.
你有权这样做。
It would be insane to do it.
这样做太疯狂了。
You're putting this district in major jeopardy, major jeopardy.
你正在让这个地区陷入严重危险，严重危险。
The superintendent is still asking where all the money will come from when Aron Wieder, the leader of the Hasidic majority, cuts him off, calls for a vote.
当哈西德派多数党领袖阿伦·维德 (Aron Wieder) 打断校长并要求投票时，校长仍在询问所有的钱从哪里来。
Are you going to answer the question of where the money is?
你要回答钱在哪里的问题吗？
No, he's not.
不，他不是。
Aron Wieder All those in favor, say aye.
Aron Wieder 所有赞成的人都同意。
Five members in the Hasidic majority vote yes.
哈西德派多数成员中的五名成员投了赞成票。
The three other board members present vote no. The motion passes, and Al D'Agostino becomes the board's new lawyer.
出席的其他三名董事会成员投了反对票。动议获得通过，阿尔·达戈斯蒂诺成为董事会的新律师。
With the new lawyer, Al D'Agostino, at the legal rudder, the board forged ahead with the two school closures.
在新律师阿尔·达戈斯蒂诺（Al D'Agostino）掌管法律舵的情况下，董事会继续推进两所学校的关闭。
Remember, the reasoning had been that the board was predicting a significant decrease in public school enrollment.
请记住，原因是董事会预测公立学校入学率将大幅下降。
Enrollment never actually did decline.
入学率实际上从未下降。
But the two schools were shuttered and put on the market, and the board eventually sold both to yeshivas.
但这两所学校被关闭并投入市场，董事会最终将这两所学校卖给了犹太学校。
It also changed its approach to special ed placements.
它还改变了特殊教育安置的方法。
It replaced the district's head of special education, who Hasidic parents had had a ton of beef with, and then the district started placing special ed students in private Jewish schools in very large numbers.
它取代了该学区的特殊教育负责人，哈西德派的父母曾与他发生过很多争执，然后该学区开始将大量特殊教育学生安置在私立犹太学校。
You might wonder, how would they do that if it's against the law?
您可能想知道，如果这是违法的，他们会怎么做？
The answer is Al D'Agostino, who imported a strategy he'd used in the other school district.
答案是阿尔·达戈斯蒂诺（Al D'Agostino），他引入了他在其他学区使用过的策略。
Now, I won't get into all the gritty details here, but the short of it is that D'Agostino kind of cut a messy loophole into the regulations, one that allowed the board to put special education students into yeshivas using public money.
现在，我不会在这里讨论所有的细节，但简而言之，达戈斯蒂诺在法规中钻了一个混乱的漏洞，允许董事会使用公共资金将特殊教育学生送入犹太学院。
These questionable placements were soon piling up in East Ramapo.
这些可疑的安置很快就在东拉马波堆积如山。
And state officials were desperately trying to intervene, warning the district that the practice was against the law.
州政府官员拼命试图干预，警告该地区这种做法是违法的。
Also high on the priorities list for the new Hasidic majority was reining in property taxes.
新哈西德多数派的首要任务之一是控制财产税。
And with the levers of power now in its possession, it launched what's pretty much been a systematic defunding of the East Ramapo public schools.
凭借现在掌握的权力杠杆，它发起了对东拉马波公立学校的系统性撤资。
Just to get a picture of how this played out inside the schools, I went to a high school principal named Jean Fields.
为了了解学校内部的情况，我去找了一位名叫吉恩·菲尔兹（Jean Fields）的高中校长。
She'd just retired from one of the district's two high schools, Ramapo High School.
她刚刚从该地区两所高中之一拉马波高中退休。
The yearbooks-- this is 2007, '08, '09, '10.
年鉴——这是 2007 年、'08、'09、'10。
Fields showed me four yearbooks from when the school board really started cutting.
菲尔兹向我展示了学校董事会真正开始削减时的四本年鉴。
You can actually see the yearbooks get thinner and thinner and thinner.
你实际上可以看到年鉴变得越来越薄。
It's like half the size by the time you get to 2010.
到 2010 年，它的尺寸就会缩小一半。
And that's not declining enrollment.
这并不是入学人数的下降。
That's things disappearing from the school.
这些东西从学校里消失了。
Fields went page by page, showing me what was cut.
菲尔兹一页一页地向我展示被删减的内容。
The business department-- that was several pages-- all eliminated.
业务部门——那好几页——全部被取消了。
There were other departments cut by 80%.
其他部门也被削减了80%。
Full pages of honor societies, sports, JROTC, AP classes, clubs, dance, home ec, administrative staff.
荣誉社团、体育、JROTC、AP 课程、俱乐部、舞蹈、家庭 ec、行政人员的整页。
District-wide, the cuts have been sweeping.
在整个地区范围内，削减是全面的。
Here's a partial list from the last five years.
这是过去五年的部分列表。
All deans, all social workers eliminated.
所有院长、所有社工都被淘汰。
All assistant principals at the elementary school level, music instruction for elementary school kids, funding for field trip buses-- all eliminated.
所有小学级别的助理校长、小学生的音乐指导、实地考察巴士的资金——全部被取消。
That came with cuts to administration, guidance counselors, teaching assistants, maintenance, assistant principals, among lots of others.
与此同时，行政人员、指导顾问、助教、维护人员、助理校长等人员也被削减。
Kindergarten was reduced from full-day to half-day.
幼儿园从全日制减少到半日制。
System-wide over the last six years, the district's laid off 22% of all its teachers.
过去六年，该学区全系统解雇了 22% 的教师。
At one point, Jean Fields says, there got to be so few teachers in her building, there was a conversation about whether the school should just let seniors go halfway through the day.
吉恩·菲尔兹 (Jean Fields) 说，有一次，她所在的大楼里老师很少，有人讨论学校是否应该让高年级学生放学一半。
[DRUM LINE PLAYING] From what I can tell, nothing and no one was sacred.
[鼓线演奏]据我所知，没有什么、没有人是神圣的。
Most high schools have things that are sources of pride.
大多数高中都有值得骄傲的东西。
It might be a sports team or a theatre program, a debate team.
它可能是一个运动队或一个戏剧节目，一个辩论队。
For Fields' school, it was their marching band.
对于菲尔兹的学校来说，这是他们的军乐队。
It won big awards.
它赢得了大奖。
It was featured in the Denzel Washington remake of The Manchurian Candidate.
它出现在丹泽尔·华盛顿翻拍的《满洲候选人》中。
In 2012, the board laid off the band's director.
2012年，董事会解雇了乐队总监。
We would always complain to the school board about scheduling.
我们总是向学校董事会抱怨日程安排问题。
And what would happen is the school board would always respond and say, well, that's not true.
学校董事会总是会回应说，嗯，这不是真的。
You guys are making it up.
你们正在弥补。
Olivia Castor went to Spring Valley, the other of the district's two high schools.
奥利维亚·卡斯特 (Olivia Castor) 就读于斯普林谷 (Spring Valley)，这是该地区两所高中中的另一所。
She was there during the biggest cutbacks.
在最大规模的裁员期间她就在那里。
And while she was there, so many teachers were laid off, students started having a hard time filling their schedules with actual classes, a complaint that Castor took to the board, where she was told the problem wasn't real.
当她在那里时，很多老师被解雇，学生们开始很难用实际的课程来填满他们的日程表，卡斯特向董事会投诉，但她被告知问题并不真实。
So I was tired of them saying that's not true, so this is a document that we put together about--
所以我厌倦了他们说这不是真的，所以这是我们整理的一份文件——
Castor set out to prove the problem was real.
卡斯特着手证明这个问题是真实存在的。
She gathered evidence into this eight-page packet that she showed to me.
她将证据收集到这个八页的数据包中并展示给我。
It includes real student schedules from her high school.
它包括她高中的真实学生时间表。
These are from 2012, so this is a snapshot from later in the cutbacks.
这些是 2012 年的，所以这是后来削减的快照。
And if you look at the schedules, you'll see three things.
如果你看一下时间表，你会看到三件事。
You'll see study halls, lunches, and community service-- filler periods.
你会看到自习室、午餐和社区服务——填充时间。
Normally, during those periods, you'd have electives or classes or APs that you're taking.
通常，在这些时期，你会有选修课、课程或 AP 课程。
For this student, they have like four lunches and two study halls in one day, and you have eight periods in a day.
对于这个学生来说，他们一天有四顿午餐和两个自习室，一天有八节课。
And this is grade 12?
这是12年级吗？
So this is a senior.
所以这是一个前辈。
Yeah, that's a senior.
是的，这是一位前辈。
You have three lunches back to back and a study hall.
你连续吃三顿午餐和一个自习室。
Like the student would have period one, environmental science.
就像学生第一节课是环境科学一样。
Then they would have a study hall.
然后他们会有一个自习室。
Then they would have lunch.
然后他们会吃午饭。
Then they would have lunch.
然后他们会吃午饭。
Then they would have lunch.
然后他们会吃午饭。
Then they would have public affairs.
然后他们就会有公共事务。
Then they would have lunch again.
然后他们会再吃午饭。
And then they would have algebra and trigonometry.
然后他们会有代数和三角学。
Yeah.
是的。
So basically, three periods out of the eight are learning, and then five out of the eight-- more than half-- is not learning.
所以基本上，八个周期中的三个在学习，然后八个周期中有五个——超过一半——没有学习。
The former principal, Jean Fields, she confirmed this was a problem in her school, too.
前校长珍·菲尔兹 (Jean Fields) 证实，这也是她学校的一个问题。
At one point, she told the administration the problem was so bad some kids might take five years to graduate because they just couldn't take enough required classes.
有一次，她告诉政府，这个问题非常严重，一些孩子可能需要五年才能毕业，因为他们无法参加足够的必修课程。
Just to say, the reason this situation could exist-- New York State education law has no regulations about how many hours of instruction a student actually has to get throughout the school day.
只是说，这种情况可能存在的原因是——纽约州教育法没有规定学生在整个上学期间实际需要接受多少小时的教学。
Olivia Castor eventually took the schedules she'd collected and showed them to the school board.
奥利维亚·卡斯特最终把她收集的时间表拿给学校董事会看。
I asked her how they responded.
我问她他们如何回应。
She said, they told me those must be fake.
她说，他们告诉我那些肯定是假的。
As you can imagine, this course of events, this kind of breakdown, this kind of environment, it's produced a sprawling epic of public confrontation.
你可以想象，这样的事态发展，这样的崩溃，这样的环境，产生了一场波澜壮阔的公众对抗史诗。
Year after year filled with all the usual kinds of events-- rallies outside Central Office, press conferences, handmade signs, student walkouts, sit-ins.
年复一年，充满了各种常见的活动——中央办公室外的集会、新闻发布会、手工制作的标牌、学生罢工、静坐。
Though even the predictable events often have these details that seem to speak to the peculiarity of this specific war.
尽管即使是可预测的事件也常常有这些细节，似乎说明了这场特定战争的特殊性。
Like, say, protests where hundreds of students fill a gymnasium and chant things like, "Cut the lawyer."
比如说，数百名学生挤满体育馆的抗议活动，高呼“放开律师”之类的口号。
Cut the lawyer!
砍掉律师！
Cut the lawyer!
砍掉律师！
Cut the lawyer!
砍掉律师！
Cut the lawyer!
砍掉律师！
Another unique part of this big, sprawling fight is that, with the board regularly shutting itself behind closed doors in executive session, in their absence, parents and students would end up holding these strange, impromptu, non-meeting meetings, where they only had each other to talk to.
这场规模庞大、规模庞大的斗争的另一个独特之处是，由于董事会经常在执行会议上关起门来，在他们缺席的情况下，家长和学生最终会举行这些奇怪的、即兴的、非会议的会议，在那里他们只有彼此交谈。
There's a video that I can't quite shake of a meeting like this.
有一个视频让我无法完全摆脱这样的会议。
It's from December 2012, a meeting about possible budget cuts.
这是 2012 年 12 月的一次会议，讨论可能的预算削减。
Among the parents, there's a mother.
父母之中，有一位母亲。
Her name is Cassandra Edwards.
她的名字叫卡桑德拉·爱德华兹。
Good evening.
晚上好。
I think I come from a different perspective.
我想我是从不同的角度来的。
I come from the perspective of being angry at this point.
我此时是从愤怒的角度来的。
As Edwards takes the mic, she stands in front of this auditorium.
当爱德华兹拿起麦克风时，她站在礼堂前。
She's still in her winter coat, facing the crowd.
她仍然穿着冬衣，面向人群。
And as she starts to talk, you can see that the board has left the room.
当她开始讲话时，您可以看到董事会已经离开房间。
They've gone into executive session.
他们已经进入执行会议了。
All their empty chairs are on the auditorium stage behind her, one for each public official who won't hear anything she's about to say.
他们所有的空椅子都在她身后的礼堂舞台上，每一位公职人员都没有听到她要说的任何话。
They're not shooting our kids with guns.
他们不会用枪射击我们的孩子。
They are stealing their education.
他们正在窃取他们的教育。
And we are acting as if it is normal.
我们表现得好像这是正常的。
We are acting as if it's OK.
我们表现得好像一切都好。
We are allowing them to sit in another room and not demand them to come out and speak.
我们允许他们坐在另一个房间，而不要求他们出来讲话。
Who is the problem?
问题是谁？
We are the problem!
我们就是问题所在！
We need to get angry about what's happening with our kids!
我们需要对发生在我们孩子身上的事情感到愤怒！
I just want to pause here because you'll notice the crowd, they're totally with her.
我只是想在这里暂停一下，因为你会注意到人群，他们完全和她在一起。
But as she keeps talking, she gets more and more upset, and it turns into this kind of upset that it's hard to cheer for.
但随着她不断的说下去，她的心却越来越不爽，甚至变成了这种让人难以欢呼的不爽。
We're losing our kids!
我们正在失去我们的孩子！
And nobody's angry!
而且没有人生气！
Nobody's mad!
没有人生气！
There's not options for our kids.
我们的孩子没有选择。
No options.
没有选项。
They're setting up prisons for our kids.
他们正在为我们的孩子设立监狱。
I'm wondering, is there nothing good about this district and its work?
我想知道，这个区和它的工作没有什么好的地方吗？
Wouldn't it be nice and productive if you would compliment the board once in a while?
如果您偶尔称赞一下董事会，岂不是很好而且富有成效吗？
No. No. Jay Grossman Is it really against your nature?
不，不，杰·格罗斯曼 这真的违背你的本性吗？
Less often, but occasionally, folks from the Hasidic and ultra-Orthodox communities would show up at board meetings, and they'd return fire.
来自哈西德派和极端正统派社区的人们偶尔会出现在董事会会议上，但偶尔也会出现，他们会进行还击。
In this video, a man named Jay Grossman lays into the public school parents and students.
在这段视频中，一个名叫杰伊·格罗斯曼的男子对公立学校的家长和学生进行了攻击。
When you utilize this microphone to spew hatred and negativity constantly, you have accomplished one thing.
当你利用这个麦克风不断地发出仇恨和消极情绪时，你就完成了一件事。
You have accomplished that I, my friends, family, and acquaintances became more involved in what's going on here.
你们让我、我的朋友、家人和熟人更多地参与了这里发生的事情。
And trust me, our presence here in this room is growing and will grow from week to week.
相信我，我们在这个房间里的存在正在不断增加，而且每周都会增加。
When you constantly attack one of ours, we will be here to defend.
当你不断攻击我们的时候，我们会在这里保卫。
We will be here to counterattack if needed.
如果需要的话我们会在这里反击。
Rest assured--
放心——
He's threatening us.
他在威胁我们。
Jay Grossman --Mr. Wieder is going nowhere, and we're going nowhere.
杰伊·格罗斯曼——先生。维德尔不会去任何地方，我们也不会去任何地方。
Gradually, shouting, open hostility, profanity, that became the norm on the school board.
渐渐地，喊叫、公开的敌意、脏话成了学校董事会的常态。
And in terms of how deep the political chasm got, there's a couple artifacts I'll include for you.
至于政治分歧有多深，我将为您提供一些文物。
The first is just an anecdote.
第一个只是一个轶事。
At one point, people close to this situation who thought this breach could be repaired, they tried to broker peace talks, a sort of diplomacy summit.
有一次，了解这一情况的人们认为这一缺口可以得到修复，他们试图促成和平谈判，一种外交峰会。
A lawyer that specializes in negotiations was brought in.
聘请了一位专门从事谈判的律师。
He was a former sergeant in the Israeli military, and folks thought he could make inroads with both sides.
他曾是以色列军队的一名中士，人们认为他可以与双方取得进展。
Someone close to the negotiation says everybody sat down and the Hasidic leadership was blunt.
一位了解谈判情况的人士表示，每个人都坐下来，哈西德派领导层也很直率。
In about these words, a Hasidic board member said, we have all the power.
对于这句话，一位哈西德派董事会成员表示，我们拥有一切权力。
Why would we negotiate?
我们为什么要谈判？
If we do, we only have things to lose.
如果我们这样做，我们只会失去一些东西。
There's also a candid document, one that points to the political will behind the board and what it was doing.
还有一份坦诚的文件，指出了董事会背后的政治意愿及其正在做的事情。
It's this letter written around the time when all this was beginning.
这封信是在这一切开始的时候写的。
A prominent real estate developer in the Hasidic community, a man named Yehuda Weissmandl, wrote a letter to the local newspaper.
哈西德派社区一位著名的房地产开发商，名叫耶胡达·魏斯曼德尔（Yehuda Weissmandl）的男子给当地报纸写了一封信。
"Dear fellow taxpayer in the East Ramapo school district, again and again, I read about how upset you are about the members of the school board, how we bloc-voted them in, how we don't have the interests of the schoolchildren at heart.
“亲爱的东拉马波学区的纳税人，我一次又一次读到你们对学校董事会成员的不满，我们如何集体投票选举他们，我们如何不把学生的利益放在心上。
Well, let's take a closer look at that.
好吧，让我们仔细看看。
For many years, you took our tax money-- year after year, increase after increase-- and you never had any problem with that.
多年来，你们拿走了我们的税款——年复一年，不断增加——而你们对此从来没有任何问题。
But when we finally get together and say that's enough, that is a problem.
但当我们最终聚在一起并说这就够了时，那就是一个问题了。
I have a solution.
我有一个解决方案。
How about giving all of us the option to bow out of the public school system and keep our money in our pockets?
让我们所有人都可以选择退出公立学校系统并将钱留在口袋里怎么样？
You want our money and our silence.
你想要我们的钱和我们的沉默。
Sorry, you cannot have it all your way."
抱歉，你不能随心所欲。”
The author of that letter, Yehuda Weissmandl, is now the president of the East Ramapo school board.
这封信的作者耶胡达·魏斯曼德尔 (Yehuda Weissmandl) 现任东拉马波学校董事会主席。
Ben Calhoun.
本·卡尔霍恩.
Coming up, ugliness gets uglier.
越往后越丑。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
This American Life.
这美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
We're hearing today about a strange case of what democracy and what majority rule can look like.
今天我们听到一个关于民主和多数统治的奇怪案例。
It's the story of the East Ramapo, New York, school district, where a group of parents whose kids did not attend public schools took over the public school board for years.
这是发生在纽约东拉马波学区的故事，一群孩子没有上公立学校的家长多年来接管了公立学校董事会。
In East Ramapo, the non-Hasidic families continued in each election cycle to try to win additional seats on the school board, turn back the Hasidic majority.
在东拉马波，非哈西德派家族在每个选举周期中都继续试图在学校董事会中赢得更多席位，扭转哈西德派占多数的局面。
They never were able to.
他们从来没能做到。
Ben Calhoun's story from 2014 continues.
本·卡尔霍恩 2014 年的故事仍在继续。
I've tried to talk to Hasidic members of the board, current and former.
我尝试与现任和前任董事会哈西德派成员进行交谈。
I've made multiple requests in person and on the phone to talk to Aron Wieder, the first leader of the majority.
我亲自和通过电话多次请求与多数党第一任领导人阿伦·维德（Aron Wieder）交谈。
I've also reached out multiple times to the current board president.
我还多次联系现任董事会主席。
Neither will return my calls.
也不会回我的电话。
I've issued a blanket invitation to the whole school board, which is now made up entirely of Hasidic-backed members.
我已经向整个学校董事会发出了全面邀请，该董事会现在完全由哈西德派支持的成员组成。
I've done that twice via the district clerk with no takers.
我已经通过地区职员这样做过两次，但没有人接受。
The one Hasidic board member who would talk to me is a former board president named Morris Kohn.
一位愿意与我交谈的哈西德派董事会成员是一位名叫莫里斯·科恩的前董事会主席。
He sat on the school board from 2009 to 2011, so he was there for some of the most severe cuts.
2009 年至 2011 年，他担任学校董事会成员，因此他经历了一些最严重的裁员。
Kohn told me he'd talk to me because he didn't want people to think he'd been, quote, "a madman." This is how Kohn says the story went from the Hasidic and ultra-Orthodox side.
科恩告诉我，他会跟我说话，因为他不想让人们认为他是“一个疯子”。科恩是这样说这个故事是从哈西德派和极端正统派的角度出发的。
He says, flat out, the community wanted control of the board to do all the things we've outlined-- rein in property taxes, change special ed, and to make sure private yeshiva students got all the government money they could for things like busing and books.
他直言不讳地表示，社区希望控制委员会来完成我们概述的所有事情——控制财产税、改变特殊教育，并确保私立犹太学院的学生获得尽可能多的政府资金，用于校车和书籍等。
They were there for that one main purpose, is to make sure the services private students are supposed to get are given, and that the public school was functioning properly.
他们在那里的主要目的是确保私立学生应该获得的服务得到提供，并且公立学校正常运作。
Is there something inherently uncomfortable about a system being governed by folks who don't use that system or wouldn't want to use that system?
一个系统由不使用该系统或不想使用该系统的人来管理，这是否存在本质上的不舒服？
Is there something that's uncomfortable just about that?
有什么不舒服的地方吗？
Well, it's very understandable people would see it that way.
嗯，人们这样看是非常可以理解的。
It's uncomfortable or unfair.
这是不舒服或不公平的。
Having said that, every person living in a district, if they're investing money in a business and they feel, OK, the business is not being run properly, then I would get myself in there and try to get those improvements done.
话虽如此，生活在一个地区的每个人，如果他们在向一家企业投资，并且他们觉得，好吧，该企业经营不正常，那么我会亲自参与其中并尝试完成这些改进。
Let me explain the second part of what Kohn had to say because this is less obvious.
让我解释一下科恩所说的第二部分，因为这不太明显。
Kohn says going into all this, the Hasidic community saw the public schools as a system in trouble, bloated with unions and inefficiency, and a good slap of fiscal conservatism would go a long way.
科恩说，考虑到这一切，哈西德派社区认为公立学校是一个陷入困境的系统，工会臃肿且效率低下，财政保守主义的大力支持将大有帮助。
But then, once the Hasidim had control, there were all kinds of external financial factors that came crashing down-- the recession, the state property tax cap.
但随后，一旦哈西德派取得控制权，各种外部金融因素就会崩溃——经济衰退、国有财产税上限。
And like school districts all across the state, he says, East Ramapo was suddenly super hard-up.
他说，就像全州各地的学区一样，东拉马波突然变得非常困难。
State cuts, government funding-- things were getting increasingly difficult to provide even the most simple services.
国家削减开支、政府资助——即使是提供最简单的服务也变得越来越困难。
And the board needed to do sometimes draconian cuts, which obviously, parents and students alike did not like that, which is very understandable.
董事会有时需要进行严厉的削减，显然家长和学生都不喜欢这样做，这是非常可以理解的。
And people were feeling, I don't want the school board to do this.
人们感觉，我不希望学校董事会这样做。
I don't want the school board to cut that.
我不希望学校董事会削减这一点。
Our hands were tied.
我们的双手被绑住了。
Like it or not, this is what we need to do.
不管你喜欢与否，这就是我们需要做的。
Kohn says it wouldn't have mattered who was on the board.
科恩表示，董事会成员是谁并不重要。
Cuts were inevitable.
削减是不可避免的。
But he says there was so much mistrust, nobody could see this.
但他表示，存在如此多的不信任，没有人能看到这一点。
It would always be the private school parents against the public school parents, and I felt in such an environment, no matter what you will do, in one way or another, eventually you will be blamed for it.
永远都是私立学校的家长反对公立学校的家长，我觉得在这样的环境下，无论你做什么，无论以哪种方式，最终都会受到指责。
This argument-- that cuts were inevitable in East Ramapo, that they were making the same tough choices as other districts-- it's not supported by the facts.
这种观点——东拉马波的削减是不可避免的，他们做出了与其他地区一样艰难的选择——并没有得到事实的支持。
I've analyzed the budgets of all the school districts in the county for the last 10 years.
我分析了该县所有学区过去 10 年的预算。
All the other regular school districts in the area, districts that faced the same economy and made it through without the same kinds of massive cuts, the main thing they were doing was raising property taxes.
该地区所有其他普通学区，面临同样的经济状况并在没有进行同样大规模削减的情况下渡过难关，他们所做的主要事情就是提高财产税。
During the five years that East Ramapo was making its biggest cuts, all of the normal neighboring school districts raised their property taxes by an average of more than 25% just to get by.
在东拉马波进行最大幅度削减的五年里，所有邻近的普通学区都将财产税平均提高了 25% 以上，只是为了勉强度日。
During the same five years in East Ramapo, the Hasidic-controlled board raised taxes by just 9%.
在东拉马波的同一五年里，哈西德派控制的董事会仅提高了 9% 的税收。
Some more numbers.
还有一些数字。
During the last 10 years, every comparable school district in the county grew its budget by an average of 50%.
在过去 10 年里，该县每个类似学区的预算平均增长了 50%。
East Ramapo's budget grew by 33%.
东拉马波的预算增长了 33%。
Which, to a layperson, you might say, well, oh, the budget grew.
对于外行来说，你可能会说，嗯，哦，预算增加了。
How bad could that be?
那有多糟糕？
I actually kind of thought that at first.
一开始我其实也是这么想的。
But I talked to school administrators and experts who said that the costs the Hasidim and other conservatives say are out of control actually are rising alarmingly fast-- pensions, health care, union contracts, cost of living.
但我与学校管理人员和专家交谈过，他们说哈西德姆和其他保守派所说的失控的成本实际上正在以惊人的速度增长——养老金、医疗保健、工会合同、生活成本。
Those things grow by so much that a 30% budget increase, that isn't growth.
这些事情增长如此之多，以至于预算增加 30%，那并不是增长。
That's devastation.
那是毁灭。
One uniquely volatile element in this chemical reaction, something unexpected that's become a chapter unto itself, is the outsized role of the board's controversial lawyer, Albert D'Agostino.
在这一化学反应中，一个独特的不稳定因素是董事会备受争议的律师阿尔伯特·达戈斯蒂诺(Albert D'Agostino)所扮演的巨大角色，这一出人意料的因素本身就成为了一个章节。
In some ways, it seems like he was just symbolic because of how he was hired.
在某些方面，他似乎只是因为他的雇佣方式而具有象征意义。
In that way, he became a sort of hood ornament for the Hasidic majority.
就这样，他成为哈西德派多数派的一种装饰品。
But in other ways, he became an actual central player.
但在其他方面，他成为了一名真正的核心球员。
He's functioned as an overt advocate for the Hasidic majority in board meetings.
他在董事会会议上公开支持哈西德派多数派。
He's become a fixture at the end of the board table, right up on the dais.
他已经成为董事会席位的固定成员，就在讲台上。
After months of going to meetings, I found he acts like an unusual combination of attorney, legal architect, consigliere, and bully.
经过几个月的参加会议，我发现他的表现就像是律师、法律建筑师、顾问和恶霸的不同寻常的组合。
A lot of the time, if board members shy away from conflict, D'Agostino steps in as a combatant.
很多时候，如果董事会成员回避冲突，达戈斯蒂诺就会作为斗士介入。
A video of one board meeting that gives you a sense of this-- a few months after D'Agostino arrived, a former student came to a meeting.
一次董事会会议的视频可以让你感受到这一点——达戈斯蒂诺到来几个月后，一名以前的学生参加了一次会议。
Lorenzo Labitigan was a district graduate in his first year at Yale, and he'd come back because he'd heard there were possible cuts to advanced placement classes.
洛伦佐·拉比蒂根 (Lorenzo Labitigan) 是耶鲁大学第一年的学区毕业生，他回来是因为他听说高级安置课程可能会被削减。
He wanted to plead to keep those.
他想恳求保留这些。
At some point, he makes a comment about D'Agostino, about how the board's paying all this added money for a lawyer.
在某个时候，他对达戈斯蒂诺发表了评论，谈论董事会如何为律师支付所有这些额外费用。
Then he says something about D'Agostino having stained credentials.
然后他谈到达戈斯蒂诺的证件被玷污了。
He's referring to the fact that the state of New York accused D'Agostino of illegitimately taking a state pension.
他指的是纽约州指控达戈斯蒂诺非法领取国家养老金的事实。
Anyway, the kid says "stained credentials."
不管怎样，这孩子说的是“污迹斑斑的凭证”。
D'Agostino jumps in and the crowd erupts.
达戈斯蒂诺跳了进来，人群爆发了。
[CROWD SHOUTING] Ben Calhoun It's hard to hear him in there.
[人群喊叫] 本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun) 在那里很难听到他的声音。
D'Agostino's cutting off the student's comment, saying, "Mr. Chairman, if I might-- if I might--"
达戈斯蒂诺打断了学生的评论，说道：“主席先生，如果我可以——如果我可以——”
I take great exception to your term "stained credential." I graduated from an Ivy League college myself, sir, and I don't remember anybody coming up with as ignorant a statement as you just made.
我对你的“污点凭证”一词非常反对。先生，我本人毕业于常春藤联盟大学，我不记得有人提出过像您刚才那样无知的言论。
You know nothing about me.
你对我一无所知。
[CROWD SHOUTING] If you want to challenge my reputation, do it to me personally.
[人群喊叫]如果你想挑战我的声誉，就亲自来挑战我吧。
Are you threatening me?
你在威胁我吗？
Ben Calhoun Right there, the student's asking quizzically, are you threatening me?
本·卡尔霍恩：就在那里，学生疑惑地问，你在威胁我吗？
No, I'm telling you.
不，我告诉你。
I am not a stained lawyer, and I won't take it from anybody, including a freshman Yalie.
我不是一个有污点的律师，我不会从任何人那里夺走它，包括耶鲁大学的新生。
You're showing your ignorance.
你暴露了你的无知。
Excuse me, sir.
对不起，先生。
You need to have respect for these children who are graduates--
你需要尊重这些毕业生的孩子们——
He's not a child.
他不是个孩子。
He's an adult.
他是个成年人了。
If you make outrageous, defamatory statements, you're going to have to take the response.
如果你发表无耻的、诽谤性的言论，你将不得不接受回应。
OK, for the record, as far as these pension allegations go, the New York Comptroller's Office accused D'Agostino of taking a $106,000-per-year New York State pension, one the state says he wasn't eligible for because he wasn't a government employee.
好吧，郑重声明，就这些养老金指控而言，纽约审计长办公室指控达戈斯蒂诺每年领取纽约州 106,000 美元的养老金，但纽约州称他没有资格领取这笔养老金，因为他不是政府雇员。
There's lots of videos of D'Agostino blowing up, yelling at parents, school administrators, pointing fingers in people's faces.
有很多达戈斯蒂诺发怒、对家长、学校管理人员大喊大叫、用手指指着人们脸的视频。
There's a well-known incident when D'Agostino verbally abused one of the public school parents.
有一个众所周知的事件，达戈斯蒂诺辱骂了一名公立学校的家长。
According to a newspaper reporter who saw this, an Honor Roll student came to the parent's defense, and D'Agostino called the kid a piece of shit, asking the child, "Do you want a piece of me?"
据一名看到此事的报纸记者透露，一名光荣榜学生为家长辩护，达戈斯蒂诺称孩子为“狗屎”，并问孩子：“你想要我的一块吗？”
Still, though, the most remarkable example of the bizarro role the school board's law firm has taken on in this conflict, it doesn't actually involve D'Agostino but another attorney from his firm, a lawyer named Chris Kirby.
尽管如此，学校董事会律师事务所在这场冲突中所扮演的奇怪角色的最引人注目的例子，实际上并不是达戈斯蒂诺，而是他公司的另一位律师，一位名叫克里斯·柯比的律师。
The set-up here is in a board meeting.
这里的设置是在董事会会议上进行的。
The lawyer, Kirby, he smirked at a public school parent while she was talking about her special needs kid.
当一位公立学校的家长谈论她有特殊需要的孩子时，律师柯比对她傻笑。
When the lawyer, Kirby, eventually left that meeting, an activist named Tony Luciano, he called Kirby an asshole.
当律师柯比最终离开会议时，一位名叫托尼·卢西亚诺的活动人士称柯比是个混蛋。
But so Kirby leaves.
但柯比就这样离开了。
He's gone.
他走了。
The meeting ends.
会议结束。
This group of parents and activists walk out.
这群家长和活动人士走出去。
Luciano, who videotapes every board meeting, is still rolling as they leave.
卢西亚诺每次董事会会议都会进行录像，当他们离开时，他仍在继续前进。
In this video, you see the sidewalk as the parents head to the parking lot.
在这段视频中，您可以看到父母前往停车场时的人行道。
And then a car drives up.
然后一辆车开了过来。
I had Luciano, the activist, walk me through what happened.
我请活动家卢西亚诺向我讲述了所发生的事情。
A car's just pulling up.
一辆车刚刚停了下来。
Woman Uh-oh.
女人 呃哦。
Uh-oh.
呃哦。
I didn't know whose car was pulling up.
我不知道谁的车停了下来。
And he gets out.
然后他就出去了。
The lawyer, Kirby, walks right up to the parents.
律师柯比径直走向父母。
He's the first one you hear in this next clip.
他是你在下一个剪辑中听到的第一个人。
I already did.
我已经这么做了。
Chris Kirby Oh, did you, you fucking cocksucker?
克里斯·柯比 哦，是吗，你这个该死的混蛋？
Huh?
啊？
Huh?
啊？
What?
什么？
You got a problem?
你有问题吗？
Wait.
等待。
So can we just pause it right here?
那么我们可以在这里暂停一下吗？
Because all you can see is the front of his shirt.
因为你只能看到他衬衫的前面。
What's going on right now?
现在发生什么事了？
And in terms of just how far away from you he is, how much space is between your chest and his chest?
那么他离你有多远，你的胸口和他的胸口之间有多少空间？
None.
没有任何。
Ben Calhoun Oh, he's actually up against you?
本·卡尔霍恩：噢，他真的在和你作对吗？
Chest to chest, yeah.
胸对胸，是的。
Yeah.
是的。
We're touching.
我们正在触摸。
And I noticed that his hands are in a clenched fist, so he's ready to strike me.
我注意到他的双手握紧了拳头，所以他准备攻击我。
I don't got a problem.
我没有问题。
Chris Kirby Yeah, you do.
克里斯·柯比 是的，你知道。
I'm standing in your way.
我挡住了你的路。
You gonna do something about it?
你会做点什么吗？
Yeah, I didn't think so.
是的，我不这么认为。
No. Woman Take a picture of his license plate.
不，女人给他的车牌拍张照片。
At this point, the lawyer, Kirby, he walks back to his car.
此时，律师柯比走回自己的车上。
Parents are saying, take a picture of his license plate.
父母说，给他的车牌拍张照片。
And Kirby stands next to his car, giving the parents the middle finger.
柯比站在他的车旁边，向父母竖中指。
And he keeps saying--
他一直说——
Take a picture.
拍张照片。
Ben Calhoun Here you go.
本·卡尔霍恩 给你。
Here you go.
干得好。
Take a picture.
拍张照片。
Ben Calhoun Take a picture.
本·卡尔霍恩 拍张照片。
Take a picture.
拍张照片。
Take a picture.
拍张照片。
Ben Calhoun The women get on their phones and they call the cops.
本·卡尔霍恩 妇女们拿起电话报了警。
And then-- I don't even know.
然后——我什至不知道。
Things just go bananas.
事情变得很疯狂。
Go hide behind your women.
躲到你的女人后面去吧。
Peggy Hatton There is a lawyer who's threatening parents.
佩吉·哈顿 (Peggy Hatton) 有一位律师正在威胁父母。
Look at him hiding behind all the women.
看看他躲在所有女人后面。
Please hurry up-- Peggy Hatton Who are you hiding behind, your paycheck?
请快点——佩吉·哈顿（Peggy Hatton），你的薪水支票，你躲在谁后面？
Shut up, you fat cunt.
闭嘴，你这个胖子。
Peggy Hatton Don't tell-- you just-- OK.
佩吉·哈顿：别告诉——你只是——好吧。
That-- that did it.
那——就这样了。
Don't let him leave.
别让他离开。
Don't let him leave!
别让他离开！
That did it.
就这样做到了。
Chris Kirby Come on.
克里斯·柯比 来吧。
That's it.
就是这样。
That's it.
就是这样。
Fuck you, you fucking bitch.
去你妈的，你这个该死的婊子。
Is that how you talk to your wife?
你就是这样跟你老婆说话的吗？
You're either drunk or high.
你要么喝醉了，要么喝醉了。
If I were married to you, I'd blow my fucking brains out.
如果我嫁给了你，我会把他的脑子打碎的。
Honey, you wouldn't be married to me.
亲爱的，你不会嫁给我的。
You're not man enough.
你还不够男人。
Trust me.
相信我。
You are not man enough.
你还不够男人。
I'm sitting there with a smirk.
我坐在那里傻笑。
Fuck you!
操你妈！
I can sit there.
我可以坐在那里。
They're paying me to sit there.
他们付钱让我坐在那里。
I work for the board, not for you.
我为董事会工作，不是为你工作。
Chris, whoa, why are you-- Tony Luciano This shows you that the board, they feel like they're immune.
克里斯，哇，你为什么——托尼·卢西亚诺 这表明董事会，他们觉得自己已经免疫了。
And it's a culture that the--
这是一种文化——
You trying to intimidate me?
你想恐吓我吗？
Is that what you're doing?
你就是这么做的吗？
--school board members have fostered among the attorneys because their disdain for the community has trickled onto the attorneys.
——学校董事会成员在律师中培养，因为他们对社区的蔑视已经渗透到了律师身上。
They can do anything and get away with it.
他们可以做任何事情并逃脱惩罚。
After this happened, there was a lot of outcry-- embarrassing coverage, newspaper editorials.
这件事发生后，引起了很多抗议——令人尴尬的报道、报纸社论。
The board did say this was too much.
董事会确实表示这太过分了。
It announced publicly it would get rid of D'Agostino's firm.
它公开宣布将摆脱达戈斯蒂诺的公司。
But it would actually take them two years before they'd cut ties with him and the law firm.
但实际上他们花了两年时间才切断与他和律师事务所的联系。
If I can, I need to change gears here and talk about part of this story that you may have noticed-- that this whole story treads near some of the most destructive anti-Semitic stereotypes in existence.
如果可以的话，我需要在这里换个话题，谈谈你可能已经注意到的这个故事的一部分——整个故事接近现存的一些最具破坏性的反犹太主义刻板印象。
In the last several years, as East Ramapo has divided into us versus them, questions of anti-Semitism have cut a wide path.
在过去的几年里，随着东拉马波分裂为我们与他们，反犹太主义问题已经开辟了一条广阔的道路。
There have been troubling incidents, cases of kids throwing rocks at school buses full of Hasidic yeshiva students.
曾经发生过一些令人不安的事件，比如孩子们向满载哈西德派学生的校车投掷石块。
In one case, a rock hit a young boy and fractured his skull.
在一个案例中，一块石头击中了一名小男孩，导致他的头骨骨折。
Last summer, three teenagers drove into Hasidic neighborhoods, shooting at people on the street with a paintball gun.
去年夏天，三名青少年开车进入哈西德派社区，用彩弹枪向街上的人们开枪。
They later told police they'd gone out that night to, quote, "shoot Jews."
他们后来告诉警方，他们那天晚上出去是为了“射杀犹太人”。
While a lot of activists, parents, and students have tried to keep anyone associated with them from venturing into anti-Semitism, most people have seen glimpses of it.
尽管许多活动人士、家长和学生试图阻止任何与他们有联系的人冒险从事反犹太主义，但大多数人都已经看到了这一点。
Olivia Castor, the student with the schedules, she told me about organizing rallies to protest the board.
奥利维亚·卡斯特（Olivia Castor）是负责安排日程的学生，她告诉我组织集会抗议董事会的事。
So when we were doing the rally, people would be like, "F Jews," or something like that.
所以当我们举行集会时，人们会说“F犹太人”，或者类似的话。
And we were just like, you need to get out.
我们就说，你需要出去。
Oh, so people would actually just try and make that a chant.
哦，所以人们实际上会尝试把它变成一首口号。
Yeah.
是的。
You know, they'd say it one time and I'm just like, no. No. I will shut that down right away.
你知道，他们曾经说过一次，我只是说，不。不，我会立即关闭它。
I heard more than one story about students, some very young, going up to teachers and asking, why are the Jews doing this to us?
我听过不止一个关于学生的故事，其中一些非常年轻，他们向老师询问，为什么犹太人要这样对待我们？
And this dynamic takes a simple political turf war-- a school board fight-- and it turns it into something uglier on all sides.
这种动态需要一场简单的政治地盘之争——一场学校董事会之争——它会让各方变得更加丑陋。
They put up their own propaganda videos.
他们发布了自己的宣传视频。
This is Tony Luciano again, the guy who tapes all the meetings, the guy who gets confronted in the parking lot.
这又是托尼·卢西亚诺，那个录制所有会议的人，那个在停车场遭遇冲突的人。
A few years ago, Luciano ran for school board and someone put up a video against him.
几年前，卢西亚诺竞选学校董事会成员，有人发布了反对他的视频。
I had him show it to me.
我让他给我看。
It says, "East Ramapo News, Luciano Running for School Board." I didn't put this up.
上面写着：“东拉马波新闻，卢西亚诺竞选学校董事会。”我没有把这个放上来。
The video is essentially an attack ad.
该视频本质上是一个攻击性广告。
A school board election attack ad.
攻击学校董事会选举的广告。
In it, there's a clip of Luciano making a comment about Hasidic board members washing their hands of the consequences of their actions, which, for complicated reasons having to do with Pontius Pilate and 2,000 years of Jewish history, this ad says is code for anti-Semitism.
其中，有一段卢西安诺评论哈西德派董事会成员对自己行为的后果洗手不干的言论，由于与庞蒂乌斯·彼拉多和 2000 年犹太历史有关的复杂原因，这则广告称这是反犹太主义的代号。
And then violin music kicks in.
然后小提琴音乐响起。
But to try to absolve-- Tony Luciano So now they're showing a picture of Nazi soldiers high-stepping.
但为了试图赦免——托尼·卢西亚诺所以现在他们展示了一张纳粹士兵昂首阔步的照片。
"Vote no to bigotry and hatred." And again, they show the Germans, Nazi soldiers, high-stepping.
“对偏执和仇恨投反对票。”他们再次向德国人、纳粹士兵展示了高姿态。
Did you say that there was one that was harsher and more offensive than this one?
你说还有比这更严厉更无礼的吗？
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Ben Calhoun How did the other one go?
本·卡尔霍恩 另一位怎么样了？
It showed Adolph Hitler talking.
它显示阿道夫·希特勒正在说话。
It showed people in the concentration camps, in Auschwitz.
它展示了奥斯威辛集中营中的人们。
It showed--
它表明——
One of the other public school activists, Peggy Hatton, the mom who gets cursed out in the parking lot, a while ago someone took a picture of her, put a mustache on it, split-screened it with a picture of Hitler, and that got tweeted through the Hasidic and Orthodox community.
另一位公立学校活动人士佩吉·哈顿 (Peggy Hatton)，这位在停车场被咒骂的妈妈，不久前有人给她拍了一张照片，在上面留了胡子，并与希特勒的照片分屏显示，这张照片通过哈西德派和东正教社区发布了推文。
The tension of all of this-- real anti-Semitism, accusations of anti-Semitism, the fear of anti-Semitism, and the fear of being accused of anti-Semitism-- it casts a fog over this whole situation.
所有这一切的张力——真正的反犹太主义、对反犹太主义的指控、对反犹太主义的恐惧以及对被指控反犹太主义的恐惧——给整个局势蒙上了一层迷雾。
There's an incident from a school board meeting.
学校董事会会议上发生了一起事件。
It's kind of well-known by people here.
这里的人们对它有点熟悉。
It was the board president at the time, Daniel Schwartz, who was leading the Hasidic majority in 2012.
2012 年，时任董事会主席丹尼尔·施瓦茨 (Daniel Schwartz) 领导哈西德派多数派。
And he gave this eight-minute speech at a board meeting.
他在董事会会议上发表了这篇八分钟的演讲。
Public school activists have nicknamed it Schwartz's Rant.
公立学校积极分子将其昵称为“施瓦茨咆哮”。
He starts out by bringing up a few different troubling incidents.
他首先提出了一些不同的令人不安的事件。
The children in our schools are walking up to their teachers and, apparently in response to the demographic makeup of this board, have been telling their teachers, many of whom are of the Jewish faith, that they hate Jews.
我们学校的孩子们走向他们的老师，显然是为了回应这个委员会的人口构成，他们一直告诉他们的老师，其中许多人有犹太信仰，他们讨厌犹太人。
The thing that Schwartz does after this, where things get super complicated, he starts to cast a blanket accusation of anti-Semitism over all the people who had been opposing the school board's decisions.
施瓦茨在此之后所做的事情变得非常复杂，他开始对所有反对学校董事会决定的人提出反犹太主义的全面指控。
He starts by bringing up a student who'd come to a meeting to challenge the board.
他首先提到了一名参加会议挑战董事会的学生。
During another controversial period this past year, a young student stood up at that rostrum there and stated that, as far as she is concerned, this board cares more about money and taxes than it does about people.
在去年另一个有争议的时期，一名年轻学生站在讲台上表示，就她而言，这个委员会更关心金钱和税收，而不是人。
That too raises an age-old anti-Semitic trope of Jewish obsession with money.
这也引发了犹太人对金钱的痴迷这一古老的反犹太主义比喻。
I simply won't have it.
我根本不会拥有它。
I will not tolerate-- I will not have any such statements ever being made in this district.
我不会容忍——我不会在这个地区发表任何这样的言论。
Suggesting that Orthodox Jews who do not send their children to the public school lack the moral authority to hold this office hearkens back to the admonishments of Saint Augustine, who famously stated that the Jews should be allowed to live but never be allowed to prosper.
认为不送孩子上公立学校的正统犹太人缺乏担任这一职务的道德权威，这让人想起圣奥古斯丁的告诫，他有一句名言：应该允许犹太人生存，但绝不允许他们繁荣。
And that paved the road to Auschwitz and the crematory of Treblinka.
这为通往奥斯维辛和特雷布林卡火葬场铺平了道路。
To suggest that we lack the moral authority to sit in these seats, let me tell you right now-- you don't like it, find yourself another place to live because this is the United States of America.
如果说我们缺乏坐在这些座位上的道德权威，让我现在告诉你——你不喜欢它，给自己找另一个地方居住，因为这是美利坚合众国。
Yes, it is.
是的。
Daniel Schwartz Not only that--
丹尼尔·施瓦茨 不仅如此——
[ONE PERSON APPLAUDING] Ben Calhoun To complicate all this even more, consider the racial dynamics of this situation.
[一人鼓掌] 本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun) 让这一切变得更加复杂的是，考虑一下这种情况的种族动态。
On one side, the Hasidim, all white.
一侧是哈西德派，全身都是白色的。
On the other side, the public school families, almost entirely black and Latino.
另一方面，公立学校的家庭几乎全是黑人和拉丁裔。
But in school board meetings, in rallies, campaign literature, interestingly, racism doesn't come up the way anti-Semitism does.
但有趣的是，在学校董事会会议、集会、竞选文献中，种族主义并没有像反犹太主义那样出现。
The activists told me they try to leave it off the table because they know how explosive it is.
活动人士告诉我，他们试图将其排除在外，因为他们知道它的爆炸性。
But in private conversations, it comes up.
但在私人谈话中，这个问题就会出现。
I spent months talking to people on both sides of this situation, and I think whatever role anti-Semitism has in all of this, the bigger split is the chasm between an isolationist religious community and everyone else.
我花了几个月的时间与这种情况的双方人士进行交谈，我认为无论反犹太主义在这一切中扮演什么角色，更大的分歧是孤立主义宗教团体与其他人之间的鸿沟。
I think secular people sense from these religious groups an implied disdain and disapproval for their way of life.
我认为世俗人们从这些宗教团体中感受到了对他们生活方式的隐含的蔑视和不满。
And in return, secular people feel a disdain and disapproval back towards the religious community over lots of issues, including things like how these groups often treat women.
作为回报，世俗人们在许多问题上对宗教界感到蔑视和不满，包括这些团体如何对待妇女等问题。
This animosity, it's ambient, and it's hard to pin down.
这种敌意是普遍存在的，而且很难确定。
But it's corrosive.
但它有腐蚀性。
I personally don't see a whole lot of anti-Semitism.
我个人并没有看到太多的反犹太主义。
Suzanne Young-Mercer deals with all kinds of people in her job running the emergency room at Mount Sinai, one of New York's largest hospitals.
苏珊娜·扬·默瑟 (Suzanne Young-Mercer) 在纽约最大的医院之一西奈山医院的急诊室负责管理工作，与各种各样的人打交道。
Again, she served on the school board.
她再次在学校董事会任职。
And she told me this anecdote that encapsulates a lot of what I saw in Ramapo.
她告诉我这个轶事，概括了我在拉马波身上看到的很多东西。
One day, I was walking down the street.
有一天，我走在街上。
And there was a Hasidic woman who called me.
有一位哈西德派妇女给我打电话。
She said, miss?
她说，小姐？
Miss?
错过？
And I looked at her.
我看着她。
And she said, I wonder if you could help me.
她说，我想知道你是否可以帮助我。
She's in her home.
她在她家里。
So I walk over and I say, what do you need me to do?
所以我走过去说，你需要我做什么？
Turned out, it was Friday-- Sabbath-- and the woman had a switch that she wasn't allowed to flip on her fridge.
事实证明，那天是星期五——安息日——这位女士有一个开关，不允许她打开冰箱。
Young-Mercer went in and flipped it for her.
扬·默瑟进去帮她翻了一下。
And she took out these little fruits or something.
然后她拿出了这些小水果什么的。
And she said, oh, thank you so much.
她说，哦，非常感谢你。
Here, take this.
给，拿着这个。
They're really very good.
他们真的非常好。
You can take these.
这些你都可以拿走。
And so I took them.
所以我就拿走了它们。
She said, thank you so much.
她说，非常感谢。
And I left the house.
然后我就离开了家。
I don't understand why a little tiny switch on her refrigerator couldn't be pushed down by them without God sending his wrath down.
我不明白为什么他们不能按下她冰箱上的一个小开关，除非上帝降下他的愤怒。
I don't understand that whole part of it.
我不明白这整个部分。
But I was willing to help them because why not?
但我愿意帮助他们，因为为什么不呢？
You're my neighbor.
你是我的邻居。
You asked me for some help.
你向我寻求帮助。
As little as that was to do, certainly it's something I could do.
尽管那是我能做的事，但这当然是我能做的。
I know truly in my heart that if I needed help, if I was standing on a street corner and I needed help from one of them, they would walk over me before they'd help me.
我内心深处知道，如果我需要帮助，如果我站在街角，需要他们中的一个人的帮助，他们会在帮助我之前从我身上走过。
And that's the difference between them and us.
这就是他们和我们之间的区别。
I don't think Suzanne Young-Mercer is anti-Semitic.
我不认为苏珊·杨·默瑟是反犹太主义者。
But I do think anytime you say, I know in my heart what everyone from this one particular group thinks and feels, that's trouble.
但我确实认为，无论何时你说，我心里知道这个特定群体中每个人的想法和感受，这就是麻烦。
And in East Ramapo, that trouble is all around you.
而在东拉马波，麻烦就在你身边。
There are enough Hasidim to control the local school board in East Ramapo, but there aren't enough to control New York State.
有足够的哈西德派控制东拉马波当地的学校董事会，但没有足够的人控制纽约州。
And increasingly, the board is not just at war with the parents and their district, but with state government.
而且，董事会不仅与家长及其学区发生冲突，而且还与州政府发生冲突。
In 2010 and again in 2012, the New York State Education Department reviewed what the district was doing-- placing Hasidic special ed students in private schools using public money.
2010 年和 2012 年，纽约州教育部审查了该学区正在做的事情——使用公共资金将哈西德派特殊教育学生安置在私立学校。
Both times, the state said, stop what you're doing.
两次，政府都说，停止你正在做的事情。
It's against both federal and state law.
这违反了联邦和州法律。
We'll cut your funding.
我们将削减你的资金。
This changed nothing.
这没有改变什么。
The district did not comply.
该地区没有遵守。
What it did was sue the state.
它所做的就是起诉国家。
The court said the state was right, but the board is appealing.
法院表示州政府是正确的，但委员会正在上诉。
In 2011, the New York State Comptroller conducted an audit of the district's finances.
2011年，纽约州审计长对该学区的财务进行了审计。
The audit determined that the board has engaged in inaccurate record-keeping with discrepancies in the millions of dollars, loose monitoring of money going to private schools, sloppy bill payment, and just all kinds of bad management.
审计发现，董事会的记录不准确，存在数百万美元的差异，对私立学校资金的监管松散，账单支付草率，以及各种管理不善。
The other big category here is the district's real estate deals.
这里的另一大类是该地区的房地产交易。
The board did close two schools and sold them to yeshivas.
董事会确实关闭了两所学校并将其出售给犹太学院。
One of those deals, in particular, it's been a complete mess.
尤其是其中一项交易，简直是一团糟。
In short, the district got a bid from a yeshiva for the building.
简而言之，该地区获得了犹太学院对该建筑的投标。
The bid was for $3 million.
出价为 300 万美元。
The school building was appraised at $6 million.
校舍估价为600万美元。
So that's a hard deal to justify-- until the board rushed out and got the school reappraised for $3 million and sold it to the yeshiva at that price.
因此，这是一项很难证明其合理性的交易——直到董事会紧急出动，让学校以 300 万美元的价格重新评估，并以这个价格将其出售给犹太学院。
Activists challenged the new appraisal, and the state took their side and nixed the deal.
活动人士对新的评估提出质疑，州政府站在他们一边并否决了这笔交易。
The appraiser recently pleaded guilty to fraud charges.
该评估师最近承认了欺诈指控。
Just this summer, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo appointed a monitor to watch the district.
就在今年夏天，纽约州州长安德鲁·科莫任命了一名监察员来监视该地区。
The district's response?
区里有何回应？
The current board president wrote a letter saying the state was, quote, "acceding to the demands of bigots and lending officials sanction to their prejudice," end quote.
现任董事会主席写了一封信，称国家“同意偏执者的要求，并让官员制裁他们的偏见”，引用结束。
I've never had to write anybody in before.
我以前从来没有必要写信给任何人。
So I'm voting for Governor Cuomo, OK?
所以我投票给科莫州长，好吗？
This past May, I met up with public school activist Steve White.
今年五月，我会见了公立学校活动家史蒂夫·怀特。
This was school board election day.
这是学校董事会选举日。
I stood in the booth with him as he wrote in Governor Cuomo three times for the East Ramapo school board.
我和他一起站在展位上，他三度为东拉马波学校董事会写信给州长科莫。
He had to do that because, for the first time since all this started, there were no public school candidates running.
他必须这样做，因为自这一切开始以来，这是第一次没有公立学校候选人参选。
After years of not winning a single race, the public school crowd failed to recruit anybody to run.
在多年没有赢得一场比赛之后，公立学校的人群未能招募任何人参加跑步。
During much of this fight, Steve was kind of the field general for the public school side.
在这场战斗的大部分时间里，史蒂夫就像是公立学校一方的战地将军。
We stood outside his polling place, where, in recent years, he says there were huge lines.
我们站在他的投票站外，他说近年来那里排起了长队。
But today, there was no one.
但今天却没有人。
We were the only two people on the sidewalk.
我们是人行道上仅有的两个人。
If someone wanted to organize this year, they could very well have gotten their candidates together, gotten their signatures signed, handed them in, shown up here today to do battle with your cards in hand and as people arrive to vote.
如果有人想在今年组织起来，他们很可能已经将候选人聚集在一起，签名，交给他们，今天出现在这里，在人们到达投票时，手里拿着你的卡片进行战斗。
It's just that no one did.
只是没人这么做而已。
White says, these days, even if his fellow public school activists organize better than ever, he doesn't think they could win a seat.
怀特说，如今，即使他的公立学校积极分子同事组织得比以往任何时候都更好，他也不认为他们能够赢得席位。
The Hasidic community is now just too big.
哈西德派社区现在太大了。
He estimates they're half of registered voters now.
他估计他们现在占登记选民的一半。
That door is closed, he told me.
那扇门关着，他告诉我。
Eventually, he stopped the car at Hillcrest Elementary School.
最终，他把车停在了 Hillcrest 小学。
This is the school that was appraised for $6 million and sold for $3 million to a yeshiva.
这所学校被估价为 600 万美元，并以 300 万美元的价格卖给了犹太学院。
The state stepped in and voided the sale, but it eventually went through this summer for $4.9 million.
州政府介入并取消了此次拍卖，但最终在今年夏天以 490 万美元的价格完成了拍卖。
We walked around the back of the building, and you could see why the school was so sought after.
我们绕着大楼的后面走了一圈，你就能明白为什么这所学校如此受追捧了。
Directly behind it sits one of the largest Hasidic communities in the area.
它的正后方坐落着该地区最大的哈西德社区之一。
The only thing separating the two was a field and a small chain-link fence.
两者之间唯一的隔阂是一片田地和一道小铁丝网。
Yeah, so there's the way you can walk through.
是的，所以你可以走过去。
We don't have to go any further.
我们不必再进一步了。
You see those buildings there through the fence?
你透过栅栏看到那些建筑物了吗？
Yeah.
是的。
And see where people are walking through?
看看人们走过的地方？
That's where they broke a hole in the fence.
他们就是在那里把栅栏打破了一个洞。
As we stood there, a steady stream of Hasidic families made their way through a hole in the fence and towards the school building.
当我们站在那里时，哈西德派家庭源源不断地穿过栅栏上的一个洞，朝学校大楼走去。
Though, today, they weren't there for school, for the yeshiva.
不过，今天他们没有去学校，也没有去犹太学院。
This was election day, and this yeshiva, it doubles as a polling place.
这是选举日，而这个犹太院，它兼作投票站。
The Hasidic families walking towards the building, they were all on their way to cast their votes.
哈西德家族走向大楼，他们都在去投票的路上。
Ben Calhoun is one of the producers of our show.
本·卡尔霍恩是我们节目的制片人之一。
So right after this program first aired back in 2014, the fiscal monitor from the state wrote up a report about East Ramapo, calling it, quote, "a school district in crisis." Since then, the state legislator has continued keeping an eye on the district, appointing new monitors, and passing a bill that requires the state education commissioner to approve the local East Ramapo school board budget.
因此，在 2014 年该节目首次播出后，该州的财政监察员写了一份关于东拉马波的报告，称其为“陷入危机的学区”。从那时起，州立法者继续关注该地区，任命新的监督员，并通过一项法案，要求州教育专员批准当地东拉马波学校董事会的预算。
In the pension case against Al D'Agostino-- thats the one that accused him of getting a state pension while not a state employee, the case that led the student to say that he had stained credentials-- the state ended up ruling in favor of D'Agostino.
在针对阿尔·达戈斯蒂诺的养老金案件中——指控他在不是国家雇员的情况下领取国家养老金，该案件导致该学生声称他的证件被玷污——国家最终做出了有利于达戈斯蒂诺的裁决。
In the 2015 school board elections, there were pro-public school candidates on the ballot again.
在2015年的学校董事会选举中，选票上再次出现了支持公立学校的候选人。
Today, one of them is on the board.
今天，其中一位已加入董事会。
This past school year, the school board accepted funds from the state to restore some of the things that have been cut.
上学年，学校董事会接受了国家的资金来恢复一些被削减的项目。
All-day kindergarten was brought back, along with some music and art classes.
全日制幼儿园恢复了，还有一些音乐和艺术课程。
Public school advocates say that things are slowly getting better.
公立学校的倡导者表示，情况正在慢慢好转。
Just this week, the community voted on and passed a budget that increases summer programs, arts, bilingual classes, and special education.
就在本周，社区投票并通过了一项增加暑期项目、艺术、双语课程和特殊教育的预算。
[MUSIC - "DON'T THROW MY VOTE AWAY" BY DAVE STEIN]
[音乐 - 戴夫·斯坦的《不要扔掉我的选票》]
I can't believe I'm even hearing this!
我简直不敢相信我竟然听到了这个！
That is disgusting!
太恶心了！
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。