527: 180 Degrees - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #527 | June 13, 2014 527: 180 Degrees Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 527 集 | 2014 年 6 月 13 日 527：180 度 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Alex Blumberg From WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life .
序言 Alex Blumberg 来自芝加哥 WBEZ 和国际公共广播电台，这就是《美国生活》。
And I'm not Ira Glass.
我不是艾拉·格拉斯。
I'm Alex Blumberg, a producer here.
我是亚历克斯·布隆伯格，这里的制片人。
I know I sound a lot like Ira.
我知道我听起来很像艾拉。
But trust me, he is away this week.
但相信我，他这周不在。
And I'm really excited to be guest hosting, because I have the opportunity to play one of my favorite pieces of tape we have ever aired on the show.
我很高兴能成为客座主持人，因为我有机会播放我们在节目中播放过的我最喜欢的磁带之一。
I've been here 17 years.
我来这里已经17年了。
This is one of my all-time favorites.
这是我一直以来的最爱之一。
And I have the excuse to play it for you thanks to a 180 that the city of New York is doing.
感谢纽约市正在做的 180 度转弯，我有借口为你们演奏这首曲子。
So a couple weeks ago, the city of New York said that it was considering lifting its longtime band on ferrets as pets.
因此，几周前，纽约市表示正在考虑取消长期以来对雪貂作为宠物的限制。
[PAPERS RUSTLING] [CLEARS THROAT] I'm holding the Department of Health memo on the subject here.
[文件沙沙作响][清嗓子]我这里拿着卫生部关于这个问题的备忘录。
It was obtained by The New York Times recently.
《纽约时报》近日获得了这一消息。
"Decision memo-- ferrets.
“决定备忘录——雪貂。
Purpose-- allow ferrets to be kept as pets with restrictions." The memo goes on to discuss the history of the ferret ban, how it started under former Mayor Rudy Giuliani, how it came about because of, quote, "reports in the literature" of ferret attacks on young babies.
目的——允许雪貂作为宠物饲养，但有限制。”备忘录接着讨论了雪貂禁令的历史，它是如何在前市长鲁迪·朱利安尼的领导下开始的，以及它是如何因引用雪貂袭击婴儿的“文献报道”而产生的。
And then it lists the reasons to lift the ban.
然后列出了解除禁令的原因。
Most other places, including New York state, do not ban ferrets.
大多数其他地方，包括纽约州，都不禁止雪貂。
Ferrets aren't anymore disease-prone than dogs or cats.
雪貂不像狗或猫那样容易生病。
And, quote, "evidence shows ferrets do not bite more frequently or severely than pets of the same size." Ferrets, in other words, are being unfairly singled out.
而且，引用，“证据表明，雪貂咬人的频率并不比相同体型的宠物更频繁或更严重。”换句话说，雪貂被不公平地挑选出来。
And then down at the very bottom, there are these couple of lines where it discusses what the reaction might be if the ferret ban is lifted.
然后在最底部，有几行讨论如果取消雪貂禁令可能会发生什么反应。
It says, quote, "There was a well-known exchange between Mayor Giuliani and a ferret advocate." The city should, quote, "expect the past to be reprised." Past, reprise yourself.
引述说，“朱利安尼市长和一位雪貂倡导者之间进行了一次众所周知的交流。”引用的话，这座城市应该“期待过去的事情会重演”。过去的，重演一下自己。
We're going to go to David in Oceanside.
我们要去欧申赛德的大卫那里。
The set-up here-- it's the summer of 1999.
这里的场景是 1999 年的夏天。
Mayor Giuliani back then had a call-in radio show that he would host.
当时的朱利安尼市长将主持一档广播节目。
And the caller on the line is David Guthartz, executive president of an organization called New York Ferret's Rights Advocacy.
电话里的打电话者是大卫·古萨茨 (David Guthartz)，他是纽约雪貂权利倡导组织的执行总裁。
Let me introduce myself again.
让我再次自我介绍一下。
David Guthartz, executive president of New York Ferret's Rights Advocacy.
大卫·古萨茨 (David Guthartz)，纽约雪貂权利倡导组织执行总裁。
Last week, when we spoke--
上周，当我们谈话时——
Oh, no. David Guthartz --you said a very disparaging remark to me that I should get a life.
哦，不。大卫·古萨兹——你对我说了一句非常贬低的话，说我应该得到自己的生活。
That was very unprofessional of you.
你这太不专业了。
Here we're trying to get something--
在这里我们试图得到一些东西——
I-- David Guthartz --seriously done.
我——大卫·古萨兹——认真地完成了。
Without you talking over me, we're trying to get something very seriously done.
不用你管我，我们正在努力认真地完成一些事情。
David, you're on my show.
大卫，你在我的节目中。
I have the right to talk over you.
我有权谈论你。
But here's the thing-- Rudy Giuliani And the fact is--
但事情是这样的——鲁迪·朱利安尼 事实是——
And the fact-- David Guthartz And we are trying to get--
事实是——大卫·古萨茨（David Guthartz），我们正在努力——
And the fact-- David!
事实是——大卫！
David Guthartz --an important issue taken care of, where the city is violating state law.
David Guthartz——这是一个重要的问题，该市违反了州法律。
Get-- David.
得到——大卫。
David Guthartz And I asked you last week if you care about the law.
大卫·古萨兹（David Guthartz） 上周我问你是否关心法律。
Yes, I do care about the law.
是的，我确实关心法律。
David Guthartz So why are you--
大卫·古萨兹 那么你为什么——
I think you have totally and absolutely misinterpreted the law, because there's something deranged about you.
我认为你完全彻底地误解了法律，因为你有些精神错乱。
No, there isn't!
不，没有！
Alex Blumberg They go back and forth like this for quite a while, until finally Mayor Giuliani hangs up on David, but then keeps on talking.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格 他们就这样来来回回了很长一段时间，直到朱利安尼市长最后挂断了大卫的电话，但随后又继续说话。
--serious.
- 严肃的。
There is-- David Guthartz Mr. Giuliani.
有——大卫·古萨茨，朱利安尼先生。
This conversation is over, David.
这次谈话结束了，大卫。
Thank you.
谢谢。
There is something really, really very sad about you.
你确实有一些非常非常悲伤的事情。
You need help.
你需要帮助。
This excessive concern with little weasels is a sickness.
这种对小黄鼠狼的过度关心是一种病态。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
That's my opinion.
这是我的意见。
You don't have to accept it.
你不必接受它。
There are probably very few people who would be as honest with you about that.
可能很少有人会在这一点上对你如此诚实。
But you should go consult a psychologist or a psychiatrist and have him help you with this excessive concern, how you are devoting your life to weasels.
但你应该去咨询心理学家或精神科医生，让他帮助你解决这种过度的担忧，即你如何将自己的生命奉献给黄鼠狼。
You have a sickness.
你有病。
And I know it's hard for you to accept that, because you hang on to this sickness.
我知道你很难接受这一点，因为你对这种疾病耿耿于怀。
And it's your shield.
这是你的盾牌。
It's your whatever.
随你便吧。
And I know you're real angry at me, and you're going to attack me.
我知道你真的生我的气，你会攻击我。
But actually, you're angry at yourself.
但实际上，你是在生自己的气。
So, David, see what you can do to get help.
所以，大卫，看看你能做些什么来获得帮助。
Now we're going to move on to Richard in the Bronx.
现在我们要转向布朗克斯的理查德。
Whoa.
哇哦。
David Guthartz That's Little Girl.
大卫·古萨兹 那是小女孩。
So what's-- who is this?
那么这——这是谁？
David Guthartz This is Princess Stardust Serenade Ferret.
大卫·古萨兹 这是星尘小夜曲雪貂公主。
That's her full name.
这是她的全名。
Wow.
哇。
Alex Blumberg This week, one of our producers, Brian Reed, caught up with David Guthartz, the ferret advocate in that exchange, at his home in Long Island.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg） 本周，我们的制作人之一布莱恩·里德（Brian Reed）在大卫·古萨兹（David Guthartz）位于长岛的家中采访了这次交流中的雪貂倡导者。
At times in his life, he's had up to five ferrets at once.
在他的一生中，有时他会同时养五只雪貂。
There was Butch Cassidy, Thief of Hearts; Butch Cassidy, Thief of Hearts Junior; Linus van Pelt.
还有红心窃贼布奇·卡西迪；布奇·卡西迪《红心小偷》；莱纳斯·范·佩尔特。
But now, it's just the one-- Princess Stardust.
但现在，只有一个——星尘公主。
And Brian was here because we wanted to hear David savor his victory.
布莱恩来这里是因为我们想听大卫品尝他的胜利。
15 years after that radio interview where he's berated by the nation's most powerful mayor, vindication is at hand.
在那次电台采访中，他受到了美国最有权势的市长的斥责，15 年后，平反即将到来。
Ferrets may soon be legal in New York City.
雪貂可能很快就会在纽约市合法化。
But David Guthartz says the way these new rules being proposed would only make things worse.
但大卫·古萨茨表示，这些新规则的提出方式只会让事情变得更糟。
Sure, they lift the ban, but only if you have a license.
当然，他们会取消禁令，但前提是你有执照。
State law, which allows ferrets and which David feels should trump city law anyway, doesn't require a license.
州法律允许饲养雪貂，大卫认为无论如何应该优先于城市法律，但不需要许可证。
So if the city puts this in place, it's going contrary even more so to New York state law.
因此，如果该市实施这一规定，那就更违反纽约州法律了。
But you're still allowed to own ferrets.
但你仍然可以拥有雪貂。
Like, that still sounds better to me than if you want to have a ferret, then having to break the law to do it.
就像，这对我来说听起来仍然比如果你想养一只雪貂，然后必须违法才能做到这一点更好。
No. Because if you going to do something, you do it right.
不。因为如果你想做某事，你就会做对。
Otherwise, don't do it.
否则，不要这样做。
Brian and David went around and around on this.
布莱恩和大卫在这个问题上反复讨论。
Brian saying, come on.
布莱恩说，来吧。
This is worth at least a little bit of celebration, right?
这至少值得一点庆祝，对吧？
David's answer, always the same-- no.
大卫的回答总是一样的——不。
I got to say, the theme of our show this week is "180." Like doing a 180, a complete turnaround or complete reversal.
我不得不说，我们本周节目的主题是“180”。就像做一个 180 度大转弯一样，彻底的转变或彻底的逆转。
And I came to visit you, because our impression was that the city was doing a 180 on ferret policy.
我来拜访你是因为我们的印象是该市正在对雪貂实行 180 度政策。
But from talking to you, it seems like you don't think it's a 180.
但从跟你的谈话来看，你似乎并不认为这是180°。
No, it's not a 180.
不，这不是180。
It's more like a five-degree turn.
这更像是一个五度转弯。
[LAUGHS] It's a tiny, tiny step, when by right they should be taking a giant leap.
[笑]这是很小很小的一步，而按理说他们应该迈出一大步。
180s are hard to get right.
180 度很难做到正确。
They can be controversial, even to the people whose side you're joining.
它们可能会引起争议，甚至对于您所加入的人来说也是如此。
There's all that history that came before, when you were going in the other direction, fighting on the opposite side.
以前有过这样的历史，当你走向另一个方向，在相反的一边战斗时。
It's hard for people to trust you now.
现在人们很难信任你。
Today on our show, 180s and the controversy they invariably cause.
今天在我们的节目中，180 年代以及他们总是引起的争议。
Act One of our show, Seeing the Forest through the Little Trees, the story of a beloved classic of high school English, an infamous speech on racial hatred, and the 180 that unites them both.
我们节目的第一幕，透过小树看森林，讲述了深受喜爱的高中英语经典的故事，关于种族仇恨的臭名昭著的演讲，以及将他们俩团结在一起的 180 度。
Act Two, Unsafety Exit, wherein a teenager, after consulting the many adults in his life charged with keeping him safe, takes all their advice and decides that the one rational act to take is to put himself in danger.
第二幕，不安全出口，一名青少年在咨询了生活中负责保护他安全的许多成年人后，接受了他们所有的建议，并决定采取的唯一理性行为就是将自己置于危险之中。
Act Three, "I'm the One who Knocks," a short story by Ben Loory about the 180 we're all hoping for.
第三幕，“我是敲门的人”，本·洛里 (Ben Loory) 的短篇小说，讲述了我们都希望的 180 度。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Seeing the Forest for the Little Trees.
第一幕，见森林见小树。
I'm going to start this story here, in the halls of Masconomet Regional High School in Topsfield, Massachusetts.
我将从这里开始这个故事，在马萨诸塞州托普斯菲尔德的马斯科诺梅特地区高中的大厅里。
The story will eventually take us many other places from Alabama to Texas to New York and Hollywood.
这个故事最终将带我们去很多其他地方，从阿拉巴马州到德克萨斯州，再到纽约和好莱坞。
But we're starting here, just outside Thomas Trevenen's sophomore English class.
但我们从这里开始，就在托马斯·特雷维宁的二年级英语课外。
The students are about to discuss a book that's read in a lot of high schools just like this one all across the country, a book that's at the center of our story-- The Education of Little Tree .
学生们即将讨论一本在全国很多高中都读的书，就像这本书一样，这本书是我们故事的中心——《小树的教育》。
OK, so The Education of Little Tree is about this boy named Little Tree.
好吧，《小树的教育》就是关于这个名叫小树的男孩的。
This is a 16-year-old in the class named Mana.
这是班上一位16岁的学生，名叫玛娜。
So his parents die when he's five, like, both his mother and his father.
所以他的父母在他五岁时就去世了，就像他的母亲和父亲一样。
And he goes to live with his Cherokeean grandparents.
他和他的切罗基祖父母住在一起。
The Education of Little Tree was first published in the mid-1970s as an autobiography of the book's author Forrest Carter.
《小树的教育》最初作为作者福雷斯特·卡特 (Forrest Carter) 的自传于 20 世纪 70 年代中期出版。
It's been a staple of high school English and history classes for decades.
几十年来，它一直是高中英语和历史课程的主要内容。
Little Tree's grandparents teach him to respect the earth, to take only what he needs from nature, and to appreciate the fundamental human virtues of respect and tolerance.
小树的祖父母教导他尊重地球，只从大自然中获取他需要的东西，并欣赏尊重和宽容的人类基本美德。
Here's another student, Joseph, who's 16.
这是另一位学生，约瑟夫，16 岁。
He was learning to deal with racial discrimination and prejudice and try and expand his understanding of the world and nature.
他正在学习应对种族歧视和偏见，并尝试扩大他对世界和自然的理解。
And I'm trying to do that, too.
我也正在努力这样做。
And this book?
还有这本书？
It's a hit.
这是一个打击。
Joseph This is kind of embarrassing.
约瑟夫 这有点尴尬。
But near the end, I really-- I sort of found myself getting a little emotional.
但接近尾声时，我真的——我发现自己变得有点情绪化。
But I really liked it.
但我真的很喜欢它。
I found that I really connected to Little Tree.
我发现我真的和小树有缘。
I felt like he was a lot like me.
我感觉他很像我。
Sort of I'm on the same journey that he was.
我和他正在经历同样的旅程。
We're both trying to become better people.
我们都在努力成为更好的人。
I'm trying to learn to be a good person, become who I am, be a man.
我正在努力学习做一个好人，成为我自己，成为一个男人。
But so was Little Tree.
但小树也是如此。
There's one more thing we should say about The Education of Little Tree, something many people may already be aware of.
关于《小树的教育》，我们还应该说一件事，很多人可能已经知道了。
It's a lie.
这是一个谎言。
It's not an autobiography.
这不是自传。
It's all made up.
一切都是编造出来的。
And the fact that it's one of the larger literary hoaxes in history is discussed in some of the high schools where the book is taught, like this one.
事实上，这是历史上最大的文学骗局之一，在一些教授这本书的高中（比如这所高中）中进行了讨论。
But in many others, it's not.
但在许多其他情况下，情况并非如此。
And the true tale of how this book came to be contains some even more memorable characters learning somewhat darker lessons.
这本书的真实故事包含了一些更令人难忘的人物，他们学习了一些更黑暗的教训。
Once you know this true story behind the book, it's hard to believe that it could have the kind of impact, convey the kind of message that it does to the students who read it today.
一旦你了解了这本书背后的真实故事，你很难相信它能产生这样的影响，向今天阅读这本书的学生传达这样的信息。
Here to tell this larger story around the book is radio producer Joe Richman, who runs Radio Diaries .
电台制作人乔·里奇曼 (Joe Richman) 负责讲述这本书的更大故事，他负责《电台日记》(Radio Diaries) 的运营。
One more thing to mention-- there's some potentially offensive language about midway through this story.
还有一件事要提——在这个故事的中间有一些潜在的冒犯性语言。
OK, Joe Richman, take it away.
好吧，乔·里奇曼，把它拿走。
The story behind The Education of Little Tree, this iconic book with a message of tolerance and respect, begins with the most famous racist political speech in American history.
《小树的教育》这本传达宽容和尊重信息的标志性书籍背后的故事始于美国历史上最著名的种族主义政治演讲。
Thank you, ladies and gentleman.
谢谢你们，女士们先生们。
This is the inaugurate day of my inauguration as governor of the state of Alabama.
今天是我就任阿拉巴马州州长的就职日。
And this day--
而这一天——
During the Civil Rights era, George Wallace, the governor of Alabama, was the personification of Southern racism.
在民权时代，阿拉巴马州州长乔治·华莱士是南方种族主义的化身。
He was the one who famously stood in the schoolhouse door to prevent two black students from enrolling at the University of Alabama.
他因站在校舍门口阻止两名黑人学生进入阿拉巴马大学而闻名。
But the moment that first really catapulted Wallace onto the national stage was his inauguration speech in 1963.
但真正让华莱士登上国家舞台的那一刻是他 1963 年的就职演说。
Let us send this message back to Washington that from this day we are standing up and the heel of tyranny does not fit the neck of an upright man.
让我们向华盛顿传达这样的信息：从今天起，我们将站起来，暴政的脚跟不适合正直人的脖子。
He was promising that he was going to stand alone for the Southern cause, the cause of the white people.
他承诺他将独自支持南方的事业，即白人的事业。
Wayne Greenhaw was a young reporter in Alabama in the 1960s.
韦恩·格林霍 (Wayne Greenhaw) 是 20 世纪 60 年代阿拉巴马州的一名年轻记者。
He remembers listening to this speech and the famous words "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever."
他记得听过这次演讲，还记得那句著名的话“现在隔离，明天隔离，永远隔离”。
It's vehement, it's mean-spirited, it's hateful.
它是激烈的，它是卑鄙的，它是可恨的。
It's like a rattlesnake was hissing it almost.
就像响尾蛇在发出嘶嘶声一样。
But it's beautifully written.
但写得很漂亮。
In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny.
以有史以来最伟大的人们的名义，我在尘埃中划下界限，向暴政的脚下发出挑战。
And I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever.
我说现在隔离，明天隔离，永远隔离。
This speech was a catalyst for much of the violence that followed.
这篇演讲是随后发生的大部分暴力事件的催化剂。
Just a few weeks later, Birmingham police used dogs and fire hoses on protesters.
就在几周后，伯明翰警方对抗议者使用了警犬和消防水龙带。
And later that same year, there was the bombing of a church in Birmingham, where four little girls were killed on a Sunday morning.
同年晚些时候，伯明翰一座教堂发生爆炸，四名小女孩在周日早上丧生。
Today what most Americans know about George Wallace are those words-- "segregation now, segregation forever" --even though they weren't actually his words.
今天，大多数美国人对乔治·华莱士的了解是这些话——“现在是种族隔离，永远是种族隔离”——尽管这实际上并不是他的话。
Behind those words, behind that speech was an entirely different person-- Asa Carter, the poet laureate of Southern racist speech writing.
在这些话、那篇演讲的背后是一个完全不同的人——阿萨·卡特，南方种族主义演讲写作的桂冠诗人。
"Segregation now, segregation forever" became Wallace's symbol.
“现在的种族隔离，永远的种族隔离”成为华莱士的标志。
It all came from Asa Carter's pen.
这一切都出自阿萨·卡特的笔下。
And nobody could write it any better than Asa.
没有人能比阿萨写得更好。
It's time for another essay on liberty by Asa Carter.
现在是阿萨·卡特（Asa Carter）撰写的另一篇关于自由的文章的时候了。
Thank you.
谢谢。
The one great truth is race.
一个伟大的事实是种族。
Each race has a character, and each race--
每个种族都有性格，每个种族——
That's Asa Carter.
那是阿萨·卡特。
He was a staunch segregationist.
他是一位坚定的种族隔离主义者。
He started his own splinter branch of the KKK in Alabama.
他在阿拉巴马州成立了自己的三K党分支。
He wrote and published a white supremacist magazine.
他撰写并出版了一本白人至上主义杂志。
And every week, radio stations around Alabama would air Asa Carter's 15-minute liberty essays, which were about everything from his views on racial purity to the dangers of integration, communism, and rock and roll, all delivered with literary flair.
阿拉巴马州各地的广播电台每周都会播放阿萨·卡特 (Asa Carter) 15 分钟的自由文章，内容涉及从他对种族纯洁性的看法到融合的危险、共产主义和摇滚乐等方方面面，所有内容都充满文学天赋。
That's why the left-winger so much wants to make our history a shrouded nothingness of confusion, to twist the songs of our fathers into bebop rhythms, and to degenerate our mores into a cacophony of chaos.
这就是为什么左翼分子如此渴望让我们的历史成为一片混乱的虚无，把我们父辈的歌曲扭曲成波普节奏，把我们的道德堕落成混乱的刺耳声音。
You've been listening to Asa Carter with an essay on liberty.
您一直在听阿萨·卡特 (Asa Carter) 发表的一篇关于自由的文章。
In 1956, Asa had his KKK group attack singer Nat King Cole on stage, because Asa hated the idea that a black musician was performing for white women.
1956 年，阿萨让他的三K党攻击歌手纳特·金·科尔登上舞台，因为阿萨讨厌黑人音乐家为白人女性表演。
Asa reserved special hatred for the Jews, who he felt were really to blame for the corrupting power of popular culture.
亚撒对犹太人怀有特殊的仇恨，他认为犹太人应该为流行文化的腐败力量负责。
He once said, "The Negro is the virus, but it's the Jew that inserts it in the veins of America."
他曾说过：“黑人就是病毒，但犹太人把它植入了美国的血管。”
And then in 1962, Asa got a new gig as George Wallace's speechwriter Ron Taylor was a good friend of Asa Carter's.
1962 年，阿萨得到了一份新工作，因为乔治·华莱士的演讲撰稿人罗恩·泰勒是阿萨·卡特的好朋友。
They'd call him and tell him what they wanted, you know.
他们会给他打电话，告诉他他们想要什么，你知道。
And they'd just give him a cup of coffee and two packs of Pall Malls, and he could write you a 20-minute speech in 30 minutes.
他们只要给他一杯咖啡和两包 Pall Malls，他就能在 30 分钟内给你写一篇 20 分钟的演讲。
Asa's speeches helped George Wallace become governor in 1962.
阿萨的演讲帮助乔治·华莱士 (George Wallace) 于 1962 年成为州长。
But within a few years, the arrangement was falling apart.
但几年之内，这种安排就分崩离析了。
Tom Turnipseed was George Wallace's campaign director back then.
汤姆·特尼普西德当时是乔治·华莱士的竞选总监。
Times changed, and Wallace wanted to cool it a little bit.
时代变了，华莱士想冷静一点。
He didn't want to just come out and say, I'm a segregationist.
他不想只是出来说，我是种族隔离主义者。
He didn't want to use that terminology anymore.
他不想再使用这个术语了。
He wanted to be more moderate.
他想变得更加温和。
Asa's views were too extreme.
阿撒的观点太偏激了。
And so Gov.
所以州长。
Wallace didn't need Asa anymore.
华莱士不再需要阿萨了。
Asa would call me up and talk with me on the phone some.
阿萨会给我打电话并通过电话与我交谈。
And he was resentful because he just felt like he was being ignored.
他很怨恨，因为他觉得自己被忽视了。
Here's the guy that wrote the famous, iconic speech.
这是撰写著名的标志性演讲的人。
And now Wallace, he won't listen to me anymore.
现在华莱士，他不会再听我的了。
He won't talk with me.
他不会和我说话。
He won't take my advice.
他不会接受我的建议。
And so he felt used, I think, by Gov.
所以我认为他感觉被州长利用了。
Wallace.
华莱士。
--upon which I am about to enter to the best of my ability, to the best of my ability--
——我即将进入，尽我所能，尽我所能——
George Wallace was elected governor again in 1970.
1970年，乔治·华莱士再次当选州长。
But this time, his inauguration speech was very different from the speech that Asa Carter had written back in 1963.
但这一次，他的就职演说与阿萨·卡特1963年写的演说有很大不同。
Wallace said, "Alabama belongs to all of us, black and white, young and old, rich and poor alike."
华莱士说：“阿拉巴马州属于我们所有人，无论黑人还是白人，年轻人还是老年人，富人还是穷人。”
Reporter Wayne Greenhaw was on the steps of the capital at the time covering Wallace's inauguration address.
记者韦恩·格林霍当时正在首都的台阶上报道华莱士的就职演说。
And he happened to run into Asa Carter.
他碰巧遇到了阿萨·卡特。
After the speech, I found Asa out on the back steps of the capitol.
演讲结束后，我在国会大厦的后台阶上找到了阿萨。
And we sat on the stairs, talking.
我们坐在楼梯上聊天。
And he started crying.
他开始哭泣。
He said, "Wayne, George Wallace sold out.
他说：“韦恩、乔治·华莱士的票都卖光了。
He's betraying us to the liberals of this nation." He stood up and turned around and said farewell.
他正在向这个国家的自由主义者出卖我们。”他站起来，转身告别。
Well, I am just an old rebel, I reckon that is all I am.
好吧，我只是一个老叛逆者，我想这就是我的全部。
For this carpetbagger government, I do not give a dadblame.
对于这个大包大揽的政府，我不会责怪他。
I'm glad I fit again'it.
我很高兴我又适应了它。
I'll keep fighting until we won.
我会继续战斗，直到我们获胜。
And I don't want to pardon for nothing that I've done.
我不想原谅我所做的一切。
This is Asa Carter.
这是阿萨·卡特。
May God bless you.
愿上帝保佑你。
And I thank you for listening.
我感谢您的聆听。
And that's the last time I ever saw Asa Carter.
那是我最后一次见到阿萨·卡特。
He just vanished like he dropped off the face of the earth.
他就像从地球表面掉下来一样消失了。
My name is Chuck Weeth.
我叫查克·韦斯。
Betty Weeth I'm Betty Weeth.
贝蒂·韦斯 我是贝蒂·韦斯。
And I and my wife ran a bookstore in our town of Abilene, Texas.
我和我的妻子在德克萨斯州阿比林镇经营一家书店。
In 1975, this man came walking in the store and said, "I'd like to introduce myself.
1975 年，这个人走进商店说：“我想自我介绍一下。
I'm Forrest Carter."
我是福雷斯特·卡特。”
He wore a cowboy hat, blue jeans, and had a mustache.
他戴着牛仔帽，穿着蓝色牛仔裤，留着小胡子。
He's dark complected, smile wrinkles around his eyes.
他脸色黝黑，眼睛周围有微笑的皱纹。
He said he was Cherokee and he was raised by his grandparents back in Tennessee.
他说他是切罗基人，由田纳西州的祖父母抚养长大。
No electricity, no running water.
没有电，没有自来水。
And I liked him.
我喜欢他。
From the very start, I liked him.
从一开始我就喜欢他。
This new guy in town, Forrest Carter, quickly became a fixture in Abilene, Texas.
这个镇上的新人福雷斯特·卡特很快就成了德克萨斯州阿比林的常客。
Chuck and Betty Weeth say Forrest was outgoing and friendly.
查克·韦斯和贝蒂·韦斯说福雷斯特性格开朗、友善。
He told people in town he never had any formal education and spent his adult life wandering between ranch jobs.
他告诉镇上的人们，他从未受过任何正规教育，成年后一直在牧场工作之间徘徊。
And he entertained everybody with stories about his Cherokee childhood.
他还给大家讲了他切罗基童年的故事。
We had him to our house several times for supper, just because you wanted to hear a little more about this life, which I wasn't familiar with at all.
我们好几次邀请他来我们家吃晚饭，只是因为你想多听听关于我根本不熟悉的生活的事情。
He was sort of the underdog of the American culture, and you were cheering for him.
他在某种程度上是美国文化的失败者，而你却为他欢呼。
And you just grew to love him.
而你就渐渐爱上了他。
Chuck and Betty Weeth knew Forrest was a writer and that he'd written a Western.
查克和贝蒂·威斯知道福雷斯特是一位作家，而且他写过一部西部片。
Forrest told them he was sending copies of the book to people in Hollywood.
福雷斯特告诉他们，他正在向好莱坞的人们发送这本书的副本。
He'd already approached-- Betty Weeth Clint East--
他已经接近了——贝蒂·威斯·克林特·伊斯特——
--Clint Eastwood.
——克林特·伊斯特伍德。
And lo and behold, Clint Eastwood was well enough taken by this first book, Forrest told us, he's planing to make a movie of it, which indeed he did do, called The Rebel Outlaw-- Josey Wales .
你瞧，克林特·伊斯特伍德对这第一本书很感兴趣，福雷斯特告诉我们，他计划将其拍成一部电影，他确实这么做了，名叫《反叛亡命之徒——乔西·威尔士》。
He lives by his word.
他言出必行。
And he lives for revenge.
而他，就是为了复仇而活着。
Clint Eastwood is the outlaw Josey Wales.
克林特·伊斯特伍德饰演亡命之徒乔西·威尔士。
Why, you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?
为什么，你要拔出手枪或者吹口哨迪克西？
During the time all this was happening, Forrest was hard at work on another book, a book he described differently than his first one.
在这一切发生的同时，福雷斯特正在努力写另一本书，他对这本书的描述与他的第一本书不同。
That was a novel.
那是一本小说。
This was an autobiography.
这是一本自传。
And he was calling it The Education of Little Tree .
他称之为《小树的教育》。
An orphan Cherokee boy raised by his grandparents who grows up to write a Hollywood movie starring Clint Eastwood-- it was made for TV.
一个由祖父母抚养长大的切罗基孤儿，长大后写了一部由克林特·伊斯特伍德主演的好莱坞电影——这部电影是为电视制作的。
Good morning.
早上好。
This is Today.
这是今天。
I'm Barbara Walters with Jim Hartz.
我是芭芭拉·沃尔特斯和吉姆·哈茨。
And in fact, in 1975, Forrest was invited to New York to be a guest on The Today Show with Barbara Walters.
事实上，1975 年，福雷斯特受邀前往纽约，与芭芭拉·沃尔特斯 (Barbara Walters) 一起做客《今日秀》。
She introduced him as an Indian who had busted broncos all over the Southwest.
她介绍说，他是一名印第安人，曾在西南部各地消灭过野马。
While viewers around the country were being introduced to Forrest Carter, there were some people back in Alabama who recognized a man they hadn't seen in years.
当全国各地的观众被介绍认识福雷斯特·卡特时，阿拉巴马州的一些人认出了一个他们多年未见的人。
Ron Taylor remembers watching that morning as Forrest Carter told viewers he was the storyteller to the Cherokee Nation.
罗恩·泰勒记得那天早上观看福雷斯特·卡特告诉观众他是切罗基族的故事讲述者。
He had that black hat pulled way down.
他把那顶黑帽子拉得很低。
[LAUGHS] He just tanned himself up, grew a mustache, lost about 20 pound.
[笑]他刚刚把自己晒黑了，留了胡子，减掉了大约 20 磅。
But as hard as he tried, he couldn't fool the folks back home.
但无论他多么努力，他都无法欺骗家乡的人们。
I literally got down on the floor laughing and rolling around.
我真的笑得趴在地板上打滚。
Call the wife, "Asa's on TV!
给妻子打电话：“阿萨上电视了！
He's on with Barbara Walters." And I'm just rolling around on the floor laughing because Asa had pulled it, you know.
他和芭芭拉·沃尔特斯在一起。”我只是在地板上打滚大笑，因为是阿萨拉的，你知道。
He had fooled them.
他愚弄了他们。
By the time The Today Show aired around the country, reporter Wayne Greenhaw had already been onto the story for a few months, the story that Asa Carter and Forrest Carter seemed to be the same person.
当《今日秀》在全国播出时，记者韦恩·格林霍已经关注这个故事几个月了，阿萨·卡特和福雷斯特·卡特似乎是同一个人。
The tip-off came when Wayne happened to write a review of Forrest Carter's first book, the one that became a movie.
当韦恩碰巧为福雷斯特·卡特的第一本书（后来被拍成电影）写评论时，就得到了线索。
After the book review appeared in the paper, Wayne ran into an old friend of Asa Carter's, Ray Andrews.
书评出现在报纸上后，韦恩遇到了阿萨·卡特的老朋友雷·安德鲁斯。
And Ray said, "Old Asa's got you fooled too, huh?" And I said, "What are you talking about?" And he said, "I saw you wrote a review of Asa's novel." I said, "That's Forrest Carter."
雷说：“老阿萨也骗了你，是吧？”我说：“你在说什么？”他说：“我看到你写了一篇阿萨小说的评论。”我说：“那是福雷斯特·卡特。”
And Ray grinned and laughed and said, "Yeah, that's old Asa.
雷咧嘴一笑，说道：“是啊，那是老阿萨。
Asa's Forrest Carter." Well, I thought, what in the world?
阿萨的福雷斯特·卡特。”好吧，我想，这到底是怎么回事？
And it just bumfuzzled me.
这让我很困惑。
After that original bumfuzzle, Wayne started to make calls.
经历了最初的混乱之后，韦恩开始打电话。
I got in contact with Eleanor Friede, who was a editor at Delacorte Press.
我联系了埃莉诺·弗里德，她是德拉科特出版社的编辑。
And she had discovered Forrest Carter.
她发现了福雷斯特·卡特。
And when I told her the story, she said, "Oh, no. It couldn't be the same guy.
当我告诉她这个故事时，她说：“哦，不。这不可能是同一个人。
He's such a sweet, gentle, fine man.
他是一个如此可爱、温柔、优秀的人。
He would never say a word about anybody because of the color of their skin.
他绝不会因为任何人的肤色而对他们说一句话。
And I know he's not anti-Semitic, because my husband and I are Jewish, and we've had him to dinner a number of times.
我知道他不是反犹太主义者，因为我和我丈夫都是犹太人，我们曾多次请他吃饭。
And he's always just as nice as he could be.
他总是尽可能地友善。
It just couldn't be the same man."
这不可能是同一个人。”
In fact, the editor told Wayne she was about to publish Forrest Carter's autobiography, The Education of Little Tree .
事实上，编辑告诉韦恩，她即将出版福雷斯特·卡特的自传《小树的教育》。
Wayne told her he would still love to talk to Forrest Carter himself, because he was writing a story for The New York Times about all this.
韦恩告诉她，他仍然愿意与福雷斯特·卡特本人交谈，因为他正在为《纽约时报》写一篇关于这一切的故事。
Sure enough, in a few days, Forrest Carter called me.
果然，没过几天，福雷斯特·卡特就给我打电话了。
And he said, "You're this Greenhaw writing about me." And I said, "Yes, sir." And he said, "Now, you don't want to hurt old Forrest, do you, boy?" And I said, "Come off of it, Asa.
他说：“你就是这个写我的格林霍。”我说：“是的，先生。”他说：“现在，你不想伤害老福雷斯特吧，孩子？”我说：“别再这样了，阿萨。
I recognize that voice.
我认得那个声音。
I know you, you know me.
我认识你，你也认识我。
We've drunk beer together."
我们一起喝过啤酒。”
I said, "I'm not trying to hurt you, but this business of Little Tree is not a true story." I said, "I want to tell the truth about what is going on here." He said, "Oh, boy, you know I don't do things like that." And he pretty much after that hung up.
我说：“我不是想伤害你，但是小树的事不是真实的故事。”我说：“我想说出这里发生的事情的真相。”他说：“哦，孩子，你知道我不会做那样的事情。”之后他就挂断了电话。
Wayne had no idea why Asa was doing what he was doing.
韦恩不知道阿萨为什么要这么做。
Why had he changed his name and become a storyteller to the Cherokee Nation?
他为什么改名并成为切罗基族的讲故事者？
Why had he gotten a tan, slimmed down, and grown a mustache?
为什么他晒黑了、瘦了、留了胡子？
And how did he expect to get away with going on TV and talking to Barbara Walters in a fake Texas accent?
他怎么能指望能在电视上用假得克萨斯口音与芭芭拉·沃尔特斯交谈呢？
All Wayne knew was Forrest Carter was lying.
韦恩只知道福雷斯特·卡特在撒谎。
He wasn't a Cherokee.
他不是切罗基人。
This wasn't a memoir.
这不是一本回忆录。
And his name wasn't Forrest.
他的名字不叫福雷斯特。
And the story ran in The New York Times August the 26th of 1976 with the headline, "Is Forrest Carter really Asa Carter?
这篇报道于 1976 年 8 月 26 日发表在《纽约时报》上，标题是“福雷斯特·卡特真的是阿萨·卡特吗？
Only Josey Wales may know for sure."
只有乔西·威尔士可能确切知道。”
Wayne though his New York Times article was going to set off a huge scandal.
韦恩认为他在《纽约时报》上的文章将引发一场巨大的丑闻。
But a curious thing happened after the article came out, something that surprised Wayne Greenhaw.
但文章发表后发生了一件奇怪的事情，这让韦恩·格林霍感到惊讶。
And it probably surprised Asa and Forrest Carter.
这可能让阿萨和福雷斯特·卡特感到惊讶。
What happened was nothing.
发生的事情并没有什么。
A few months later, Forrest Carter's autobiography, The Education of Little Tree , was published.
几个月后，福雷斯特·卡特的自传《小树的教育》出版。
And in fact, after Forest slash Asa died in 1979, the book just became more and more popular.
事实上，1979 年福里斯特·斜线·阿萨去世后，这本书才变得越来越受欢迎。
In the late 1980s, The Education of Little Tree caught a wave of rising interest in all things Native American.
20 世纪 80 年代末，《小树的教育》引起了人们对美洲原住民一切事物日益增长的兴趣。
And people seemed to identify with its themes-- humility, tolerance, living in harmony with nature.
人们似乎认同它的主题——谦逊、宽容、与自然和谐相处。
A new paperback edition included a foreword by an actual Cherokee writer who called the book deeply poignant and compared it to Huck Finn.
新的平装本包含一位真正的切罗基作家的序言，他称这本书非常令人心酸，并将其与哈克·费恩进行了比较。
More than a million copies were sold.
销量超过一百万册。
In 1991, the book reached number one on The New York Times Nonfiction Best Seller List.
1991年，该书登上《纽约时报》非小说类畅销书排行榜第一名。
In 1994, Oprah Winfrey recommended it on her TV show.
1994年，奥普拉·温弗瑞在她的电视节目中推荐了它。
Every once in a while, a new article would come out revealing yet again the racist past of the book's author, and some small things would change.
每隔一段时间，就会有一篇新文章再次揭露该书作者的种族主义过去，一些小事情也会发生变化。
The New York Times moved the book from the nonfiction to fiction category.
《纽约时报》将这本书从非小说类别移至小说类别。
Oprah eventually took it off her book list.
奥普拉最终把它从她的书单上删除了。
Some Native Americans said the book was full of stereotypes and was a complete fraud, but the Cherokee guy who wrote the foreword stood by it.
一些美洲原住民说这本书充满了刻板印象，完全是骗局，但写前言的切罗基人坚持这一观点。
It seemed that no matter what came out about the background of the book, its popularity continued.
看来，无论这本书的背景如何，它的受欢迎程度仍在持续。
Today you can find it in Barnes & Noble in the Native American section.
今天，您可以在 Barnes & Noble 的美洲原住民专区找到它。
Most people who loved the book simply could not imagine that a former Klansman, racist, anti-Semite, this person couldn't have written The Education of Little Tree .
大多数喜欢这本书的人根本无法想象，一个前三K党成员、种族主义者、反犹太主义者，这个人不可能写出《小树的教育》。
This is historian Dan Carter, who, by the way, isn't related to Asa Carter.
这是历史学家丹·卡特，顺便说一句，他与阿萨·卡特没有亲戚关系。
But he is writing a biography of the man.
但他正在写这个人的传记。
And he hits on the question that's at the center of the whole story.
他触及了整个故事的核心问题。
Is it possible that something happened in the heart of Asa Carter?
难不成阿萨·卡特的心里发生了什么事情？
Did he change?
他变了吗？
Was he a reformed racist trying to break from his shameful past?
他是一个改过自新的种族主义者，试图摆脱他可耻的过去吗？
Or was he just trying to make a buck?
还是他只是想赚钱？
Or was it all just a joke on his new-age liberal readers?
或者这只是他的新时代自由派读者的一个笑话？
What does it mean that the man who wrote this--
写这句话的人是什么意思——
And I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever.
我说现在隔离，明天隔离，永远隔离。
--could also write this?
——这个也可以写吗？
Man One time grandma told me, when you come on something good, first thing to do is share it with whosoever you can find.
男人 有一次，奶奶告诉我，当你遇到好东西时，要做的第一件事就是与任何你能找到的人分享。
That way the good spreads out where no telling how far it'll go.
这样，善意就会传播开来，不知道会传播到多远。
Here's Asa Carter.
这是阿萨·卡特的报道。
Radio Host In the South, we have 98% Anglo-Saxon races, not counting the niggers.
电台主持人 在南方，我们有 98% 的盎格鲁撒克逊人种，这还不包括黑人。
The only group Asa Carter hated more than blacks were Jews.
阿萨·卡特唯一比黑人更讨厌的群体是犹太人。
So what does it mean that Forrest Carter created the character of Mr. Wine, a generous and sympathetic Jewish peddler who befriends Little Tree?
那么，福雷斯特·卡特塑造的“葡萄酒先生”这一角色意味着什么呢？葡萄酒先生是一位慷慨而富有同情心的犹太小贩，与小树成为了朋友。
Mr. Wine said if you learn to place a value on being honest and thrifty, on doing your best, and on caring for folks, this was more important than anything.
怀恩先生说，如果你学会重视诚实、节俭、尽力而为、关心他人，这比什么都重要。
How could someone talk with so much venom--
怎么会有人说话这么恶毒——
We shall submit to Negro dominion another day, another hour, another month.
再过一天，再过一小时，再过一个月，我们将屈服于黑人的统治。
Behind every ballot is a bayonet and the red blood of an Anglo-Saxon who holds it.
每张选票的背后都有一把刺刀和持有刺刀的盎格鲁撒克逊人的鲜血。
I could feel something more, as Grandma said I would.
我能感觉到更多的东西，正如奶奶所说的那样。
Mon-o-Lah, the Earth Mother, came to me through my moccasins.
地球母亲蒙奥拉 (Mon-o-Lah) 通过我的鹿皮鞋来到我身边。
I would have liked to live that time forever, for I knew I had pleased Grandpa.
我真想永远活在那个时代，因为我知道我让爷爷很高兴。
I had learned the way.
我已经学会了方法。
Actually, "the live in harmony with nature" message isn't really that surprising.
事实上，“与自然和谐相处”的信息并不那么令人惊讶。
You might expect a white supremacist to be nostalgic about living off the land.
你可能会认为白人至上主义者会怀念靠土地生活的生活。
And someone can certainly write hate speech and still love nature.
有人当然可以在写仇恨言论的同时仍然热爱自然。
But what most leaders took from The Education of Little Tree is a message of tolerance and respect for Native Americans and for the African American and Jewish characters in the book.
但大多数领导人从《小树的教育》中得到的信息是对美洲原住民以及书中非裔美国人和犹太人物的宽容和尊重。
In fact, the villains in this story aren't the minorities.
事实上，这个故事中的反派并不是少数族裔。
They're the white politicians.
他们是白人政客。
For many people who love The Education of Little Tree , the only way to make sense of it was to take the book at its word and to believe that Asa Carter had truly changed.
对于许多喜爱《小树的教育》的人来说，理解这本书的唯一方法就是相信这本书的字面意思，并相信阿萨·卡特真的改变了。
It wasn't an act, but a sincere transformation.
这不是一种行为，而是一种真诚的转变。
Yes, OK, he wasn't a Cherokee orphan.
是的，好吧，他不是切罗基孤儿。
But in this heart, he had become Forrest Carter.
但在这颗心里，他已经成为了福雷斯特·卡特。
And Exhibit A for this point of view, for "the people can change and people do change" point of view, is Asa Carter's former boss George Wallace, the man he wrote speeches for.
而表达这一观点、“人们可以改变，人们确实会改变”的观点的证据就是阿萨·卡特的前任老板乔治·华莱士，他为他撰写了演讲稿。
Primary elections are being held Tuesday.
初选将于周二举行。
And George Wallace is trying a come back, trying to become governor again.
乔治华莱士正在尝试东山再起，试图再次成为州长。
At black meetings, Wallace repudiates his former racist stance.
在黑人会议上，华莱士否认了他以前的种族主义立场。
And whether or not you agreed with me in everything that I used to do and agreed to, I know that you do not.
无论你是否同意我过去所做和同意的一切，我知道你不同意。
I too see the mistakes that all of us made in years past.
我也看到了我们所有人在过去几年中所犯的错误。
This is footage from George Wallace's last campaign for governor in 1982.
这是乔治华莱士 1982 年最后一次竞选州长时的镜头。
He was actually in a wheelchair-- the result of an assassination attempt.
他实际上坐在轮椅上——这是一次暗杀企图的结果。
And he was in the midst of what would be known as his apology tour, going around the state to black churches and civic groups, anyone who would have him and saying, I was wrong.
他正在进行所谓的道歉之旅，走访全州的黑人教堂和民间团体，任何愿意接受他的人都会说，我错了。
One of the civil rights leaders Wallace apologized to was Congressman John Lewis, who still has a visible scar on his head from famously being beaten by Alabama state troopers on the Edmund Pettus Bridge on the march to Selma, Alabama.
向华莱士道歉的民权领袖之一是国会议员约翰·刘易斯，他头上至今仍留着明显的伤疤，那是在前往阿拉巴马州塞尔玛的途中在埃德蒙·佩特斯桥上被阿拉巴马州警察殴打而造成的。
And I remember the occasion so well.
我对那个场合记忆犹新。
It was like someone confessing to their priest or to a minister, just telling me everything and asking me about everybody, that he never had an opportunity to meet with Martin Luther King Junior, to meet Dr. King.
这就像有人向他们的牧师或牧师坦白，只是告诉我一切并询问我每个人的情况，他从未有机会与小马丁·路德·金会面，与金博士会面。
He wanted people to forgive him.
他希望人们原谅他。
He said, "I never hated anybody.
他说：“我从来没有恨过任何人。
I never hated black people." He said, "Mr. Lewis, I'm sorry." And I said, "Well, Governor, I accept your apology."
我从不讨厌黑人。”他说，“特朗普先生。刘易斯，我很抱歉。”我说：“好吧，州长，我接受你的道歉。”
I believe people have the capacity to change.
我相信人们有能力改变。
I think he was sincere.
我认为他是真诚的。
George Wallace was a lifelong politician.
乔治·华莱士一生都是政治家。
And it's impossible to say if his change of heart was authentic or not.
而且无法判断他的改变是否真实。
But the people he was apologizing to believed it.
但他道歉的人却相信了这一点。
In his last election as governor of Alabama in 1982, he won with 90% of the black vote.
1982年，他上一次竞选阿拉巴马州州长时，以90%的黑人选票获胜。
Wallace continued his apology tours long after he left public office.
华莱士在卸任公职后很长一段时间内仍在继续他的道歉之旅。
So George Wallace represents the transformation-is-possible theory.
因此，乔治·华莱士代表了“变革是可能的”理论。
To people in Abilene, Texas, who are friends with Forrest Carter, the Cherokee writer, that's what happened to Asa Carter.
对于德克萨斯州阿比林的切罗基作家福雷斯特·卡特的朋友来说，阿萨·卡特的遭遇就是如此。
He pulled a Wallace.
他拉了一个华莱士。
Here's Chuck and Betty Weeth.
这是查克和贝蒂·韦斯。
I personally think the Forrest Carter I knew was sincere.
我个人认为我认识的福雷斯特·卡特是真诚的。
The other life he seemed to have had as Asa Carter, I just sort of dismiss it.
他似乎也有过阿萨·卡特的另一种生活，我只是有点不屑一顾。
I agree with that.
我同意这一点。
I guess it's sort of that feeling that give a man a chance, he might change himself.
我想正是这种感觉给了一个人一个机会，他可能会改变自己。
And we felt like, well, he tried to change himself and he succeeded with us.
我们觉得，好吧，他试图改变自己，并且他和我们一起成功了。
I didn't like Asa Carter, I'll guarantee you.
我向你保证，我不喜欢阿萨·卡特。
But I did like Forrest Carter.
但我确实喜欢福雷斯特·卡特。
There's another person who has some thoughts on this, one of the few people who knew both Forrest and Asa Carter.
还有一个人对此有一些想法，他是少数几个同时认识福雷斯特和阿萨·卡特的人之一。
He was Uncle Asa to me.
对我来说他是阿萨叔叔。
He wasn't Uncle Asa, the white supremacist.
他不是白人至上主义者阿萨叔叔。
He wasn't Uncle Asa, the staunch segregationist.
他不是坚定的种族隔离主义者阿萨叔叔。
He was Uncle Asa.
他是阿萨叔叔。
So for me, it was my uncle wrote this wonderful book.
所以对我来说，是我叔叔写了这本精彩的书。
Carol Boyd is the daughter of Asa Carter's brother.
卡罗尔·博伊德是阿萨·卡特兄弟的女儿。
She's never spoken about any of this on the record before.
她以前从未在记录中谈论过这些。
All of Asa's family members have kept silent for years.
阿萨的所有家人多年来一直保持沉默。
Like many of them, Carol was sheltered from most of the details of her uncle's racist past.
和他们中的许多人一样，卡罗尔对她叔叔种族主义过去的大部分细节都一无所知。
The main thing she knew about her uncle-- he was the true author of The Education of Little Tree .
关于她叔叔，她最了解的就是——他是《小树的教育》的真正作者。
So when did you first read The Education of Little Tree ?
那么你第一次读《小树的教育》是什么时候呢？
I guess I was a senior in high school when I first read it.
我猜我第一次读到这本书的时候还是一名高中生。
I loved it.
我喜欢它。
I fell in love with it.
我爱上了它。
I actually cried.
我真的哭了。
I just think it's a beautiful story.
我只是觉得这是一个美丽的故事。
I still read it today.
今天我还在读。
Carol describes herself as politically liberal.
卡罗尔形容自己是政治自由派。
She voted for Obama twice.
她两次投票给奥巴马。
And to her, that book is all the proof she needs that in the end, her uncle wasn't so so different in his view from her.
对她来说，那本书就是她所需要的全部证据，证明她叔叔的观点与她并没有那么不同。
Just to have the ability to write that book, whether you present it as an autobiography or not, just to have that in you I think says that there is a good part of this person.
只要有能力写那本书，无论你是否把它作为自传来呈现，只要你有这样的能力，我认为就说明这个人有很好的一部分。
I would hope that people would choose to believe maybe he found a softer side in his older years.
我希望人们会选择相信也许他在晚年找到了更温柔的一面。
And maybe he did change.
也许他确实改变了。
Did he change?
他变了吗？
That's the question you asked.
这就是你问的问题。
No. No, no, no, no, no. Not at all.
不，不，不，不，不，不。一点也不。
Not at all did he change.
他一点也没有改变。
This again is Ron Taylor, one of Asa Carter's friends from the early days back in Alabama.
这又是罗恩·泰勒，阿萨·卡特早年在阿拉巴马州时的朋友之一。
Ron would describe himself as the opposite of politically liberal.
罗恩将自己描述为政治自由派的对立面。
And he's chief proponent of theory number two--
他是第二个理论的主要支持者——
No, no, no, no. No. Joe Richman --Asa Carter did not change.
不，不，不，不。不，乔·里奇曼——阿萨·卡特没有改变。
You know, I could do like some and just say, oh, he didn't really mean that.
你知道，我可以像某些人那样说，哦，他并不是真的那个意思。
He didn't this, that, and the other, but did.
他没有这个、那个、那个，但他做到了。
He did.
他做到了。
And to refute it, like say Wallace did and people like that, then that makes it their whole lives lies before.
为了反驳它，就像华莱士和类似的人所说的那样，那么他们的一生就摆在面前了。
I mean, old Wallace, after they wheeled him out in his wheelchair, and he apologized for everything he ever was.
我的意思是，老华莱士，在他们用轮椅把他推出去之后，他为自己曾经的一切道歉。
But Asa Carter wasn't going to apologize.
但阿萨·卡特不会道歉。
He felt like he was right.
他觉得自己是对的。
And he lived it and he died it.
他活过，也死过。
He just didn't change.
他只是没有改变。
He was Asa Carter.
他就是阿萨·卡特。
There are some interesting clues that support Ron's theory.
有一些有趣的线索支持罗恩的理论。
Many of the supposed Cherokee words in the book Asa completely made up, just nonsense words.
阿萨书中许多所谓的切罗基语词完全是胡编乱造的，只是无稽之谈。
Mon-o-Lah, the Earth Mother, comes up a lot.
地球母亲蒙奥拉 (Mon-o-Lah) 经常出现。
Not a word.
一言不发。
The name Forrest, it's not about communing with nature.
福雷斯特这个名字，并不是与自然交流。
It comes from Nathan Bedford Forrest.
它来自内森·贝德福德·福雷斯特。
Never heard of him?
从未听说过他？
He was the first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.
他是三K党的第一位大巫师。
And even the fact that the book is told from the point of view of a Cherokee kid, some white supremacists, it turns out, had a thing for Native Americans.
即使这本书是从切罗基孩子的角度讲述的，事实证明，一些白人至上主义者也对美洲原住民有兴趣。
KKK members sometimes bragged about being part Native American.
三K党成员有时会吹嘘自己是美洲原住民的一部分。
It's the noble savage trope that goes back to DW Griffith films and much earlier.
这种高贵野蛮的比喻可以追溯到 DW Griffith 的电影和更早的时候。
It may seem counter-intuitive, but to Asa Carter, it was perfectly reasonable to glorify Native Americans while hating blacks and Jews.
这似乎有悖常理，但对阿萨·卡特来说，颂扬美洲原住民而憎恨黑人和犹太人是完全合理的。
And there's one more thing-- Asa's inscription in the copy of the book that he gave to Ron.
还有一件事——阿萨在他送给罗恩的书本上的题词。
And this is my copy of it.
这是我的副本。
It has gotten rather tattered.
它已经变得相当破烂了。
Here's signature page.
这是签名页。
It says "For Ronny, my friend whose loyalty to the Southern cause has made us comrades.
上面写着“致罗尼，我的朋友，他对南方事业的忠诚使我们成为同志。
Forrest 'Asa' end quote Carter." The only time he ever signed it that way.
福雷斯特‘阿萨’最后引用了卡特的话。”这是他唯一一次这样签名。
All this leads Ron to a third theory, one I wasn't expecting.
所有这些导致罗恩得出第三种理论，这是我没有预料到的。
Asa didn't change, and he didn't fake a change.
阿萨没有改变，他也没有假装改变。
The Education of Little Tree is exactly what Asa Carter always believed.
小树的教育正是阿萨·卡特一直坚信的。
Everyone else just misinterpreted it.
其他人只是误解了它。
Well, one way you look at it, it's a tree hugger's book.
嗯，从某种角度来看，这是一本环保人士的书。
It's all about nature and this, that, and the other.
这一切都与自然以及这个、那个和其他有关。
And the other way it's a right-wing, "government, leave me alone" book.
另一方面，这是一本右翼的“政府，别打扰我”的书。
The government took Little Tree and put him in an orphanage, you see.
你看，政府带走了小树，把他关进了孤儿院。
And the government passed the whiskey tax.
政府通过了威士忌税。
And the government did this.
政府也这么做了。
And the government did that to the American Indian.
政府对美洲印第安人就是这样做的。
And that's the way I read it.
我就是这样读的。
I was shocked when I found out other people was understanding it differently.
当我发现其他人的理解不同时，我感到很震惊。
Ron feels that The Education of Little Tree is speaking directly to him and to what he believes.
罗恩觉得《小树的教育》是在直接对他和他的信仰说话。
But I asked Ron, what if it's the other way around?
但我问罗恩，如果相反怎么办？
What if you're the one who's wrong?
如果你是错的人怎么办？
[SIGH] Well, I would like to know myself.
[叹息]好吧，我想了解我自己。
If it's what I think it is.
如果是我认为的那样的话。
What I think it is, I think he wrote it for me, me and my ilk.
我认为它是什么，我认为他是为我、我和我的同类而写的。
But I don't know that.
但我不知道。
Because it's probably been more interpreted the other way-- the other way being the tree hugger way as opposed to my anti-government, anti-cities and government intrusion in our daily lives, that type thing.
因为它可能更多地被解释为另一种方式——另一种方式是环保人士的方式，而不是我的反政府、反城市和政府侵入我们日常生活之类的事情。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I know how I took it.
我知道我是怎么接受的。
But I also know that there's many or more people took it the other way.
但我也知道有很多或更多的人持相反的观点。
Asa Carter.
阿萨·卡特.
I wish I knew what he thought.
我希望我知道他的想法。
I really do.
我真的这么做。
But I honestly don't know.
但老实说我不知道。
I don't know myself what to make of the whole thing.
我不知道自己该如何看待这整件事。
But while I was working on this story, I picked up a new copy of The Education of Little Tree and I started to read it to my two daughters.
但当我在写这个故事的时候，我拿起一本新的《小树的教育》，开始读给我的两个女儿听。
They're loving it.
他们很喜欢它。
Of course, they don't know the back story.
当然，他们并不知道背后的故事。
And I'm not sure when I'm going to tell them.
我不确定什么时候要告诉他们。
For me, it's kind of confusing to read the book and know the history.
对我来说，阅读这本书并了解历史有点令人困惑。
Like, am I a sucker for just reading it?
就像，我只是读它是一个傻瓜吗？
Every once in a while, I'll come across a passage, like when five-year-old Little Tree sees a hawk kill a young quail.
每隔一段时间，我就会看到一段话，就像五岁的小树看到一只老鹰杀死一只小鹌鹑一样。
It makes him sad.
这让他很难过。
So his grandfather teaches him "the way," which is about taking only what you need and about how nature weeds out the small and the slow so the species can grow stronger and more powerful.
因此，他的祖父教给他“道路”，即只取所需的东西，以及大自然如何淘汰弱小和缓慢的事物，以便物种能够变得更强大、更强大。
And I think, is this some white supremacist secret code of racial purity?
我想，这是白人至上主义者种族纯洁性的秘密密码吗？
Or is it just a lovely lesson about the circle of life and not being greedy?
或者这只是一个关于生命循环和不贪婪的可爱教训？
A few days ago, I was sharing a pastry with one of my daughters.
几天前，我和我的一个女儿分享了一份糕点。
I tore it in half and held out the two pieces.
我把它撕成两半，拿出两块。
She chose the small one.
她选择了小的。
And then she looked at me and said, "I have learned the way." For her, the book has nothing to do with small government or racial superiority.
然后她看着我说：“我已经学会了。”对她来说，这本书与小政府或种族优越无关。
It's all about trying to understand people different from yourself, just being a good human being.
这一切都是为了尝试理解与自己不同的人，只是做一个好人。
Whatever Forrest Carter believed in his heart of hearts, it's safe to say this is a book that Asa Carter would have hated.
无论福雷斯特·卡特内心深处相信什么，可以肯定地说，阿萨·卡特一定会讨厌这本书。
Joe Richman of Radio Diaries .
广播日记的乔·里奇曼。
There's much more from Joe at radiodiaries.org and on the Radio Diaries podcast.
Joe 在 radiodiaries.org 和 Radio Diaries 播客上提供了更多内容。
We're going to let Asa Carter's old friend from back in the day, Ron Taylor, play us out.
我们将让阿萨·卡特的老朋友罗恩·泰勒来挑战我们。
He and Asa wrote a song together after Little Tree came out.
《小树》出来后，他和阿萨一起写了一首歌。
It was supposed to go in the movie version, but never did.
原本应该出现在电影版中，但最终没有出现。
Oh, I put the melody to it.
哦，我把旋律放进去了。
He did all the words.
他做了所有的话。
It doesn't mention Little Tree, but it's about-- it comes from the Little Tree book.
它没有提到《小树》，但它是关于——它来自《小树》一书。
[SINGING] Let me tell you a betrayal in Tennessee, see?
[唱歌] 让我告诉你田纳西州的背叛，明白吗？
Is that cabin still a-standing on the ridge, on that mountain standing high against a clear and southern sky?
那个小屋还矗立在山脊上，在那座山上，高耸在晴朗的南方天空下吗？
One other thing.
另一件事。
Joe is in the middle of a Kickstarter campaign right now.
Joe 目前正在进行 Kickstarter 众筹活动。
If you liked this story and you want more like it, go back him.
如果你喜欢这个故事并且想要更多类似的故事，请回去找他。
Kickstarter plus Radio Diaries .
Kickstarter 加上广播日记。
[HUMMING] [SINGING] With that red bone hound a-whining.
[嗡嗡声] [歌唱] 伴随着那只红骨猎犬的哀鸣。
[HUMMING]
[嗡嗡声]
It's been a long time since I sang!
好久没唱歌了！
[SINGING] in Tennessee.
[唱歌]在田纳西州。
Coming up, Death.
来了，死亡。
Death is coming up.
死亡即将来临。
And death is not who you think it is.
而死亡并不是你想象的那样。
That's in a minute from WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，WBEZ 芝加哥和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Alex Blumberg sitting in for Ira Glass, who's out this week.
我是亚历克斯·布隆伯格 (Alex Blumberg)，代替本周缺席的艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)。
Today's show, "180." And we've arrived at Act Two.
今天的节目是《180》。我们已经到了第二幕了。
Act Two, Unsafety Exit.
第二幕，不安全出口。
So you know, every once in a while, someone says, you did a total 360 on that.
所以你知道，每隔一段时间，就会有人说，你总共做了 360 次。
Like, you did a total 360 on drugs or gay marriage or ferrets.
比如，你总共做了 360 次关于毒品、同性婚姻或雪貂的事情。
And then someone who knows math will say, it's not a 360.
然后懂数学的人会说，这不是 360。
It's a 180.
这是180。
A 180 is when you used to hate dogs and now you love dogs.
180度是指你以前讨厌狗，现在你喜欢狗。
A 360 would be if you started out hating dogs, then you love dogs, and then you were like, oh yeah, I was right.
如果你一开始讨厌狗，然后你喜欢狗，然后你会说，哦，是的，我是对的，那么 360 就会是这样。
I do hate dogs.
我确实讨厌狗。
The next story is about a person who started out wanting the normal 180, but then actually ends up going for the full 360.
下一个故事是关于一个人一开始想要正常的 180 度，但实际上最终却想要完整的 360 度。
Chana Joffe-Walt has our story.
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特讲述了我们的故事。
Michael is a tall, skinny 16-year-old who talks a lot about feelings-- a limited category of feelings, gut feelings.
迈克尔是一个又高又瘦的 16 岁男孩，他经常谈论感情——一种有限的感情，直觉。
Michael chose turkey for lunch because he had a gut feeling about it.
迈克尔选择火鸡作为午餐，因为他有一种直觉。
You like his blue shirt?
你喜欢他的蓝色衬衫吗？
Yeah, he had a gut feeling he should go blue and not red.
是的，他有一种直觉，他应该穿蓝色而不是红色。
I don't think about a lot of things.
我不会考虑很多事情。
It just comes to me.
它就发生在我身上。
It just happens.
它就这样发生了。
Wherever my road leads me, I go to.
我的路通向哪里，我就去哪里。
I, like-- I follow my road.
我，喜欢——我走我的路。
Michael's into his road.
迈克尔踏上了他的路。
Brings it up a lot.
提起很多。
The first time Michael heard about Lincoln High School, he was in eighth grade, sitting in class, and his teacher mentioned Lincoln had a strong basketball team.
迈克尔第一次听说林肯高中是在八年级，坐在课堂上，他的老师提到林肯有一支强大的篮球队。
Michael had a gut feeling he should be at Lincoln.
迈克尔有一种直觉，他应该去林肯。
It wasn't that he was unhappy at the store where he was, Union.
并不是说他对自己所在的商店不开心，尤尼恩。
He liked it.
他喜欢它。
He liked the kids, liked the teachers.
他喜欢孩子们，喜欢老师。
But the basketball team was not great.
但篮球队的表现并不出色。
And Michael believed he was destined for the NBA.
迈克尔相信他注定会进入 NBA。
His parents were OK with Lincoln.
他的父母对林肯很满意。
They liked that it had a vocational program.
他们喜欢它有一个职业计划。
So in August, Michael got a letter that he was in.
所以在八月份，迈克尔收到了一封他写的信。
Like, how I felt when I got that letter, say you're on a road.
就像，当我收到那封信时我的感受，说你正在路上。
Straight ahead, a mile away is the NBA, right there.
正前方，一英里之外就是 NBA，就在那里。
It's just a straight path to me.
这对我来说只是一条笔直的道路。
That's how I felt.
我就是这么感觉的。
If you just follow the road, the NBA is one mile away?
如果你顺着路走，NBA离你一英里远吗？
Yeah.
是的。
And, like, I just couldn't wait to go to school.
而且，就像，我迫不及待地想去学校。
The first few months of ninth grade at Lincoln, Michael got to school 20 minutes early and waited outside for the doors to open.
在林肯就读九年级的头几个月，迈克尔提前 20 分钟到达学校，并在外面等待开门。
He says he woke up excited every morning.
他说他每天早上醒来都很兴奋。
He did have a 40-minute commute.
他的通勤时间确实是 40 分钟。
That part wasn't great.
那部分不太好。
And from the train he had to cross a park they didn't feel super safe.
从火车上他必须穿过一个公园，他们感觉不太安全。
Also, sitting alone in the cafeteria as a new kid-- he hated that.
而且，作为一个新孩子，他独自坐在自助餐厅里——他讨厌这样。
But it was all OK, because Michael really felt he was at Lincoln to make his dreams come true.
但这一切都很好，因为迈克尔真的觉得他在林肯是为了让他的梦想成真。
He was on his road.
他正在路上。
So all that other stuff, it was just gnats to swat away until he could get to tryouts in November.
所以所有其他的东西，在他能参加十一月份的选拔赛之前，都只是小虫子而已。
I was actually really hyped for it.
我真的很兴奋。
Every class, I was like, oh yeah, it's tryouts.
每堂课，我都想，哦，是的，这是选拔赛。
Next period, tryouts.
下一期，试训。
Last period, tryouts.
最后一期，试训。
I just kept saying that.
我只是一直这么说。
And everybody was like, yeah, we're about to get this.
每个人都说，是的，我们即将得到这个。
Michael showed up in a giant gym, and the coaches started everyone on layup drills.
迈克尔出现在一个巨大的体育馆里，教练们开始让每个人进行上篮训练。
But I kept missing.
但我一直失踪。
Then we did left hand.
然后我们做左手。
And then I missed every left hand.
然后我错过了每一只左手。
Then we did shooting.
然后我们进行了拍摄。
It was bad, really bad.
很糟糕，真的很糟糕。
What happened?
发生了什么事？
Michael Air balls, like the ball kept falling out of my hands.
迈克尔空气球，就像球不断从我手里掉下来一样。
It was just bad.
真是太糟糕了。
That was the worst I've ever done in my life in basketball.
这是我篮球生涯中做过的最糟糕的事情。
Probably I was nervous.
也许我很紧张。
I did horrible.
我做的太可怕了
That's what they looked at me as if I was nothing.
他们就是这样看着我，好像我什么都不是。
Michael has a lot of metaphors to describe the next period of his life.
迈克尔有很多比喻来描述他人生的下一个时期。
He told me it was like the school was wearing a mask.
他告诉我，学校就像戴着面具一样。
And after tryouts, the mask came off.
试训结束后，面具就脱落了。
In this metaphor, Michael concedes he put the mask on the school.
在这个比喻中，迈克尔承认他给学校戴上了面具。
The NBA fantasy, that's the mask.
NBA 的幻想，就是这个面具。
But he says after tryouts, the school was naked and it looked ugly.
但他说，试训结束后，学校里一片赤裸，看起来很丑。
Suddenly he could see everything clearly.
突然间，他什么都看清楚了。
He wasn't a mile away from the NBA.
他离NBA不远了。
He was lonely, far from home in a huge school he didn't like, in a neighborhood he didn't like, in a life he didn't like.
他很孤独，远离家乡，在一所他不喜欢的大学校里，在他不喜欢的社区里，过着他不喜欢的生活。
He started coming to school late, really late, three hours late.
他开始迟到，真的迟到了，迟到了三个小时。
He failed his first period class.
他第一节课没及格。
And when Michael did show up, he'd just spend all his time thinking about his old school, about Union.
当迈克尔确实出现时，他只是把所有的时间都花在思考他的母校，思考联盟。
At lunch, he'd sit there wondering what they were eating back at Union, which field trips they were going on this year.
午餐时，他会坐在那里想知道他们在联盟吃什么，今年他们要进行哪些实地考察。
And then at night, he'd go and check Facebook and try to figure out what happened that day at Union.
然后晚上，他会去查看 Facebook，试图弄清楚那天在 Union 发生了什么。
Michael told his principal he wanted to go back to Union.
迈克尔告诉校长他想回到联合大学。
The principal said there's no way to transfer mid-year.
校长说年中没办法转学。
He'd have to wait until the summer, and then see if his old school had a spot for him.
他必须等到夏天，然后看看他原来的学校是否有位置给他。
So Michael did what any 15-year-old does when he doesn't like the answer he's given.
所以迈克尔做了任何一个 15 岁的孩子在不喜欢他给出的答案时都会做的事情。
He asked again and again.
他一遍又一遍地问。
And when he got the same answer, he started asking other people.
当他得到同样的答案时，他开始询问其他人。
I kept asking teachers, how could I transfer out?
我一直问老师，我怎样才能转出？
They said, the only way for you transfer out, you got to get a safety transfer.
他们说，你转出的唯一方法是安全转机。
And that's by something that you feel is, like, dangerous around you that you can't be an area.
那是因为你觉得你周围有一些危险的东西，你不能成为一个区域。
Safety transfer.
安全转移。
That phrase stuck in Michael's brain, mostly because it included the word transfer.
这句话深深地印在了迈克尔的脑海里，主要是因为它包含了“转移”这个词。
So Michael went back to the principal.
于是迈克尔又回到校长那里。
What about a safety transfer?
安全转移怎么样？
Can I get one of those?
我可以得到其中之一吗？
But Michael says the principal laughed.
但迈克尔说校长笑了。
Safety transfers are for people whose safety has been threatened.
安全转移适用于安全受到威胁的人员。
He said, so far you're in good hands, so nothing has happened to you.
他说，到目前为止，你的情况很好，所以你没有发生任何事情。
Like, that I'm safe.
就像，我很安全。
That's when it clicked for Michael.
就在那时，迈克尔突然灵机一动。
The only way to get back to his old school was to make himself less safe.
回到原来的学校的唯一方法就是让自己变得不那么安全。
So Michael hatched his plan.
于是迈克尔制定了他的计划。
There were several steps.
有几个步骤。
It begin with a simple purchase.
它从简单的购买开始。
OK.
好的。
I went to a Chinese website, and I bought the hat.
我去了一个中文网站，买了这顶帽子。
Michael bought a winter hat, an NBA one, a beanie with a fuzzball at the top.
迈克尔买了一顶冬帽，一顶 NBA 帽子，一顶顶部有毛球的无檐小便帽。
It was a NBA team beanie, my favorite NBA team, Knicks.
这是一顶 NBA 球队无檐小便帽，我最喜欢的 NBA 球队，尼克斯队。
Ordered it.
订购了它。
Week later, got it.
一周后，明白了。
Wore it to school.
穿着它去学校。
Get off the train, and I'm making eye contact.
下了火车，我就进行眼神交流。
I'm trying to make as much eye contact as I can with, like, all the people that kind of looks scary, that had, like, sag in their pants, had chains on.
我试图与所有看起来很吓人、裤子松垂、戴着铁链的人进行尽可能多的眼神交流。
So I was looking at people.
所以我一直在看着人们。
Seeing some kid in the store, right?
在商店里看到一个小孩，对吗？
I just like glared my eyes at him.
我只是喜欢瞪着他的眼睛。
But, like, I didn't make just eye contact.
但是，就像，我不只是进行眼神交流。
I stared at them.
我盯着他们。
I counted to three.
我数到三。
I said, one, two, three.
我说，一，二，三。
Heard, "Yo, boy.
听到：“哟，孩子。
Come here." He ran up behind me, tapped me in the chest.
过来吧。”他跑到我身后，拍拍我的胸口。
I said, "Yeah, what do you want from me?" In the same exact tone.
我说：“是啊，你想从我这里得到什么？”用同样的语气。
"Yeah, what do you want from me?" He was like, "Yo, you got any money on you?
“是啊，你想从我这里得到什么？”他说：“哟，你身上有钱吗？
You got your phone on you?"
你身上有手机吗？”
I was like, "No, I don't.
我当时想，“不，我不。
Want my hat, though?" He was like, "Actually, yeah.
想要我的帽子吗？”他说：“实际上，是的。
Give me your hat." I gave it to him.
把你的帽子给我。”我把它给了他。
He said, "Yo, if you lying to me, if you have your phone or wallet, don't lie to me.
他说：“哟，如果你对我撒谎，如果你有手机或钱包，就不要对我撒谎。
You better give it to me, or my squad's gonna jump you."
你最好把它交给我，不然我的小队就会把你抓起来。”
Michael did have a wallet in his pocket and an iPod in his sock.
迈克尔的口袋里确实有一个钱包，袜子里有一个 iPod。
So he ran, ran across the street fast-- almost got hit by a truck-- and right into the school.
于是他跑了，飞快地跑过街道——差点被卡车撞到——然后径直跑进了学校。
No, it wasn't like, oh, I just got robbed.
不，这不像，哦，我只是被抢劫了。
I need help.
我需要帮助。
It was, yo!
原来是，哟！
I just got robbed!
我刚刚被抢劫了！
Son, I just got robbed.
儿子，我刚刚被抢劫了。
I got to tell all the teachers.
我得告诉所有老师。
I'm about to get this transfer!
我即将收到这笔转账！
And then all my friends came up to me, like, yo, I heard you got robbed.
然后我所有的朋友都来找我，就像，哟，我听说你被抢劫了。
I was like, yeah, I got robbed!
我当时想，是的，我被抢劫了！
Kids starting telling teachers.
孩子们开始告诉老师。
Teachers even came up to me, asking, are you OK?
老师们甚至走过来问我，你还好吗？
Went to the principal, told the principal what happened.
去找校长，告诉校长发生了什么事。
Went to the precinct, filed a police report.
已前往辖区，向警方报案。
Then I went back to the assistant principal and got my file.
然后我回到副校长那里拿了我的文件。
Did you feel bad at all?
你感觉很糟糕吗？
Michael No, I was feeling good.
迈克尔 不，我感觉很好。
It was great.
太棒了。
I knew what was going to happen next.
我知道接下来会发生什么。
Michael called his old school, told them he got a safety transfer.
迈克尔给他原来的学校打电话，告诉他们他得到了安全转学。
They said OK.
他们说好的。
Didn't ask any questions.
没有问任何问题。
The principal told me, we didn't want to know.
校长告诉我，我们不想知道。
After a couple hours with Michael, I told him I couldn't figure out if what he did was brilliant or so stupid, and that I was settling on both.
与迈克尔相处了几个小时后，我告诉他我无法弄清楚他所做的事情是聪明还是愚蠢，而且我正在两者兼而有之。
He said that seemed about right.
他说这似乎是正确的。
Yeah, everything was just coming to me, just fast.
是的，一切都在向我袭来，速度很快。
Like, my plan, it just went so smoothly and perfect.
就像我的计划一样，进展得如此顺利和完美。
Like, that's the smartest plan I've came up with so far.
就像，这是我迄今为止想出的最聪明的计划。
But why did you have to get robbed at all?
但为什么你一定要被抢劫呢？
That was the only way I could get a safety transfer.
这是我获得安全转移的唯一方法。
But you could have-- but nobody knew that they took your hat, right?
但你可以——但没有人知道他们拿走了你的帽子，对吗？
No. Chana Joffe-Walt You could have just put the beanie under your bed at home--
不。Chana Joffe-Walt 你可以把帽子放在家里的床底下——
Yeah, that's true.
是的，确实如此。
Chana Joffe-Walt --and said that you got robbed.
Chana Joffe-Walt——并说你被抢劫了。
That's true too.
这也是事实。
I don't know why I did it.
我不知道我为什么这么做。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I just felt like I needed the experience.
我只是觉得我需要这种经验。
So, like, instead of me just saying, oh, I got robbed.
所以，就像，我不只是说，哦，我被抢劫了。
They took my hat.
他们拿走了我的帽子。
I said, no!
我说，不！
I got robbed!
我被抢劫了！
They actually took my hat and left, and they ran away with it!
他们居然拿了我的帽子就走了，还带着它跑了！
Like, I put more feelings into what I had to say.
就像，我在我不得不说的话中投入了更多的感情。
And, like, I almost fake cried to the police, too.
而且，就像，我也几乎假装向警察哭了。
Like, I kept rubbing my eyes.
就像，我一直揉眼睛。
I talked to Michael's mom.
我和迈克尔的妈妈谈过。
She told me she had already started worrying about the neighborhood around Lincoln.
她告诉我她已经开始担心林肯周围的社区了。
On the day she went to pick up Michael, she hated walking through the park by the school.
去接迈克尔的那天，她讨厌穿过学校旁边的公园。
She started to hear kids were getting jumped for their shoes, book bags.
她开始听到孩子们为鞋子、书包而跳来跳去。
So to her, it didn't matter what her 15-year-old son was up to, whether or not he thought he had some plan.
所以对她来说，她15岁的儿子在做什么，无论他是否认为自己有什么计划，都不重要。
What mattered was that he was actually robbed.
重要的是，他真的被抢劫了。
In the middle of ninth grade, Michael went back to Union, right after he turned 15.
九年级中期，迈克尔刚满 15 岁就回到了联盟。
He says, that is when I fixed my mistake.
他说，那是我纠正错误的时候。
And if you've ever wondered what it would be like to undo some of the mistakes of your adolescence, to pay attention more in US history, to go unbreak up with that person you broke up with, Michael is here to tell you that it is as awesome as you've always imagined.
如果你曾经想知道纠正你青春期犯下的一些错误、更多地关注美国历史、与你分手的人分手会是什么样子，迈克尔会在这里告诉你，这就像你一直想象的那样棒极了。
Well, remember my first class was algebra.
好吧，记住我的第一堂课是代数。
A girl actually grabbed my hoodie.
一个女孩居然抓住了我的连帽衫。
And she said, oh, you look good nowadays.
她说，哦，你现在看起来很好。
And she said, you're my boyfriend now.
她说，你现在是我男朋友了。
She's, like, one of the popular people who actually grabbed my sweatshirt.
她就像是真正抢走了我的运动衫的受欢迎的人之一。
No. I was not cool with her whatsoever.
不，我对她一点也不感冒。
And instead of me being that 5' 5" kid with the light voice, I was that 6' 2" man with a deep voice.
我不再是那个身高 5 英尺 5 英寸、声音轻柔的孩子，而是那个身高 6 英尺 2 英寸、声音低沉的男人。
I'm like, yo, how's life, blah, blah, blah.
我想，哟，生活怎么样，等等，等等。
I remember walking around.
我记得走来走去。
And everybody's like, oh, he's back.
每个人都说，哦，他回来了。
He looks way better.
他看起来好多了。
And I remember teachers-- I remember walking into the teachers' lounge.
我记得老师们——我记得走进老师休息室。
And everybody was screaming, It was like, oh!
每个人都在尖叫，就像，哦！
And that was when I knew that that was my welcome back to my old school.
就在那时我知道这是欢迎我回到我的母校。
So you think you made the right decision?
所以你认为你做出了正确的决定？
Yup.
是的。
It was a gut feeling.
这是一种直觉。
Chana Joffe-Walt I point out that it was a gut feeling that led Michael to his original mistake to go to Lincoln.
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特（Chana Joffe-Walt） 我指出，正是一种直觉导致迈克尔犯了最初的错误，选择了林肯。
But Michael seems to have a gut feeling that he should not listen to that comment.
但迈克尔似乎有一种直觉，他不应该听这个评论。
Michael says the way he sees it, the whole thing was just a U-turn on his road.
迈克尔说，在他看来，整件事只是他道路上的一个大转弯。
Chana Joffe-Walt is a producer on our show.
查娜·乔菲-沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt) 是我们节目的制片人。
Act Three, "I'm the One who Knocks." Author Ben Loory has this short story about the 180 that awaits us all.
第三幕，“我是敲门的人”。作者 Ben Loory 有一个关于等待我们所有人的 180 度的短篇故事。
And a quick note to our podcast listeners, there is a curse word that in the podcast we have not beeped.
向我们的播客听众简要说明一下，在播客中我们没有发出嘟嘟声，有一个咒语。
Here's Ben Loory.
这是本·洛里。
A man was walking down a long, long road when he saw a figure approaching from the distance.
一个人正走在一条很长很长的路上，突然看到一个人影从远处走来。
The man kept going, wondering who it was, when suddenly he realized it was Death.
那人继续前行，想知道这是谁，突然他意识到那是死神。
"Shit," said the man.
“妈的，”男人说。
He turned and looked around.
他转身环顾四周。
There was a tree nearby.
附近有一棵树。
One with lots of leaves.
一种有很多叶子的。
So the man ran to it and climbed up in the branches and hid amongst the fruits there, peering out.
于是，那人跑过去，爬上树枝，躲在水果中间，向外张望。
After a while, he saw Death coming down the road.
过了一会儿，他看到死神从路上走来。
He held very still and tried not to breathe.
他一动不动，努力不呼吸。
Keep going, he thought.
继续前进，他想。
Keep going, keep going.
继续，继续。
But Death didn't obey.
但死神并没有服从。
Death stopped.
死亡停止了。
The man felt his heart constrict as death turned to the tree.
当死亡转向树时，男人感到自己的心一紧。
He felt the blood freeze in his veins as Death looked up.
当死亡抬起头时，他感到血管里的血液凝固了。
Somehow he knew that despite all the leaves, Death could see him there in his hiding place.
不知怎的，他知道，尽管有那么多树叶，死神还是能在他的藏身之处看到他。
How, thought the man.
怎么样，男人想。
How, if he can't see me, how does he know that I'm here?
如果他看不到我，他怎么知道我在这里？
And then the men realized that in the grip of fear, his hands were shaking, and they were shaking the tree.
然后人们意识到，由于恐惧，他的双手在颤抖，他们也在摇晃树。
Oh, god, thought the man.
噢，上帝，男人想。
I have to make them stop.
我必须让他们停下来。
He gripped the branches as tightly as he could.
他尽可能紧紧地抓住树枝。
But the more he tried to hold them still, the more they shook and shook.
但他越是试图让它们保持不动，它们就越摇晃。
And the man began to despair.
男人开始绝望。
And in the road, Death smiled.
在路上，死神微笑着。
And right then it happened, the worst possible thing.
就在那时，最糟糕的事情发生了。
One of the fruits detached from the tree.
从树上脱落的果实之一。
The man shaking had loosened it and loosened it and loosened it.
那个晃动的人已经松开了，松开了，松开了。
And now it broke free and it fell.
现在它挣脱了，掉了下来。
And Death saw the fruit fall.
死亡看到了果实的掉落。
And Death came closer until he stood at the very foot of the tree.
死亡离他越来越近，直到他站在树下。
And he turned his head and looked up through the branches and the leaves until he saw the man and the man saw him.
他转过头，透过树枝和树叶往上看，直到他看到了那个人，那个人也看到了他。
And Death smiled and reached down and picked up the fallen fruit.
死神微笑着，伸手捡起了掉落的果实。
And he opened his mouth and took a bite.
他张开嘴咬了一口。
"Yes," said Death, in that voice that Death has.
“是的，”死神用死神的声音说道。
"The unripe fruits are best, I always say."
“我总是说，未成熟的水果是最好的。”
Panic seized the man.
那人惊慌失措。
The end, he knew, was near.
他知道，结局已经临近了。
When Death finished the fruit, he would be next.
当死神吃完果实后，他就是下一个。
Think, thought the man.
想想吧，男人想。
Think, think, think.
想，想，想。
But he couldn't think of a single thing to do.
但他想不出有什么可以做的。
And then from somewhere on the other side of panic, an idea suddenly came to the man.
然后，在恐慌的另一边，这个男人突然想到了一个主意。
It might work, he thought.
这可能会起作用，他想。
It really just might work.
这确实可能有效。
And purposely, he began to shake the tree.
他故意开始摇晃树。
At first, his efforts had no effect.
起初，他的努力没有效果。
But the man did not give up.
但男人并没有放弃。
He shook the tree with all the strength he had.
他用尽全身的力气摇晃着那棵树。
He shook the tree with everything, with his entire being.
他用一切、用他的整个存在来震动这棵树。
And the little fruits broke free from the tree, and they rained down hard on Death.
小果实从树上挣脱出来，如雨点般落在死亡身上。
"Damn you, Death!
“你这个该死的死神！
Die, die, die!" yelled the man as the fruit smashed against Death's head and face and shoulders.
死吧，死吧，死吧！”当水果砸在死神的头、脸和肩膀上时，那人喊道。
And then with a sudden snap, all the fruits broke free, and they came down like an avalanche.
然后突然“啪”的一声，所有的果实都挣脱了，像雪崩一样落了下来。
And they buried Death beneath them.
他们把死亡埋在了身下。
For a while in the aftermath, there was only silence.
一时之间，只剩下一片寂静。
And then in the silence, the man thought back.
然后在沉默中，男人回想起来。
And suddenly he realized that that during the rain of fruit, Death had simply laughed and laughed and laughed.
突然他意识到，在水果雨中，死神只是笑啊笑啊笑。
The man stayed in the tree for quite some time, until he was sure it was safe.
该男子在树上呆了很长一段时间，直到他确信树已经安全了。
And then when he climbed down very, very slowly, he stood looking at the great mound of fruit.
然后，当他非常非常缓慢地爬下来时，他站在那里看着那一大堆水果。
He tapped it lightly with one foot, and the fruits all rolled aside.
他一脚轻轻一踩，果子就全部滚到一边。
And there, beneath, there was no Death.
在那里，在下面，没有死亡。
Nothing, nobody, not a thing.
什么都没有，没有人，没有东西。
"Well, all right," said the man.
“好吧，”那人说。
"I guess that settles that." And he turned away and hit the road again.
“我想这就解决了。”然后他转身又上路了。
Not long thereafter, the man came to a hill.
不多时，那人便来到了一座小山上。
And when he got to the top, he looked down.
当他到达山顶时，他往下看。
And there in the valley below, he saw a figure coming towards him.
就在下方的山谷中，他看见一道人影朝他这边走来。
A man, he thought.
一个男人，他想。
Just a little man.
只是一个小男人而已。
And at that very moment, the little man looked up.
就在这时，小个子抬起头来。
HE saw the man up on the hill and he froze.
他看到山上的那个人，他愣住了。
He turned and looked around, around the valley, panic-stricken.
他转头环视四周，环视山谷，惊慌失措。
And he saw a nearby tree and he ran.
他看到附近有一棵树，就跑了。
And the man on the hilltop smiled and watched as the little man started to climb.
山顶上的男人微笑着看着小个子开始攀登。
"You think you can hide," said the man, "from me?" And he walked into the valley to see.
“你认为你能躲过我吗？”那人说道。他便走进山谷去看。
Ben Loory is the author of Stories for the Nighttime and Some for the Day.
本·洛里（Ben Loory）是《夜间故事》和《白天故事》的作者。
Our program was produced today by Ben Calhoun and me, with Sean Cole, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, Sarah Koenig, Nikki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由本·卡尔霍恩和我、肖恩·科尔、斯蒂芬妮·符、查纳·乔菲-沃尔特、莎拉·科尼格、尼基·米克、乔纳森·曼吉瓦尔、布莱恩·里德、罗宾·塞米恩、艾丽莎·希普和南希·厄普代克共同制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Ira Glass is the guy normally in this seat.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）通常坐在这个座位上。
Production help from Alison Davis.
艾莉森·戴维斯提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon, our production manager.
艾米丽·康登，我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson, our administrative assistant.
埃莉斯·伯格森，我们的行政助理。
Adrianne Mathiowetz runs our website.
阿德琳娜·马修韦茨 (Adrianne Mathiowetz) 负责运营我们的网站。
Research help from Michelle Harris and Julie Beer.
米歇尔·哈里斯和朱莉·比尔的研究帮助。
Wayne Greenhaw was interviewed for the Asa Carter in 2011, passed away later that same year.
韦恩·格林霍 (Wayne Greenhaw) 于 2011 年接受《阿萨·卡特》杂志采访，同年晚些时候去世。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
Thanks as always to our show's co-founder, Torey Malatia, who was just at the spa getting ready for his Brazilian beach vacation.
一如既往地感谢我们节目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia，他当时正在水疗中心为他的巴西海滩度假做准备。
Apparently there's a new machine there.
显然那里有一台新机器。
It just bumfuzzled me.
这让我很困惑。
Alex Blumberg I'm Alex Blumberg.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格 我是亚历克斯·布隆伯格。
Ira Glass will be back next week with more stories of This American Life.
艾拉·格拉斯将于下周回归，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。