526: Is That What I Look Like? - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #526 | July 10, 2015 526: Is That What I Look Like?
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 526 集 | 2015 年 7 月 10 日 526：这就是我的样子吗？
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Nancy Updike From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life , distributed by Public Radio International.
序言 南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这就是《美国生活》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Nancy Updike, and I'm filling in for Ira Glass, who's working on a great, action-heavy, live stage show.
我是南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike)，我将接替艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass)，她正在制作一场精彩的、充满动作场面的现场舞台表演。
He will be back next week.
他将于下周回来。
And in the meantime, I wanted to share this story.
与此同时，我想分享这个故事。
It's a little personal.
这有点个人化。
I was at MAC-- the makeup store, not the computer store-- and I was buying foundation, which I almost never wear.
我在 MAC——化妆品店，而不是电脑店——买了粉底，但我几乎从不穿。
That's the makeup you put all over your face to give yourself pretend perfect skin.
这就是你在脸上涂上的化妆品，让自己假装完美的皮肤。
And I asked the salesman for help finding the right color.
我请推销员帮忙找到合适的颜色。
And he looked at me and said-- almost like he was thinking out loud-- he said, your neck, it's so much more yellow than your face.
他看着我说——几乎就像他在大声思考——他说，你的脖子，比你的脸黄得多。
And then he turned away to start looking for the impossible color that would solve this problem of the yellow right next to the so much more yellow.
然后他转身开始寻找一种不可能的颜色来解决黄色紧挨着更多黄色的问题。
And if you're thinking, oh, this was just a sales technique to invent a problem and then offer to fix it with more products, I wish that that had been the case.
如果你在想，哦，这只是一种销售技巧，发明一个问题，然后提出用更多产品来解决它，我希望情况确实如此。
But this was not an upsell.
但这并不是追加销售。
This was a cri de couer.
这是一次大声疾呼。
The man really just seemed to be expressing his frustration at this stumper of my mismatched face and neck.
这个男人似乎真的只是在表达他对我不协调的脸和脖子的沮丧。
This sort of out-of-the-blue, perfectly sharpened comment stops you cold because it's not an insult.
这种出乎意料、尖锐的评论会让你感到冷漠，因为这不是一种侮辱。
It's an observation that is true.
这是一个真实的观察。
You just hadn't thought of it before.
只是你之前没有想到而已。
It's shocking because you think, I know myself.
这很令人震惊，因为你认为，我了解我自己。
I know what I've got, what I haven't got.
我知道我拥有什么，没有什么。
No one's going to spot something about me that I haven't already seen.
没有人会发现我身上一些我还没见过的东西。
Not true.
不正确。
You can be among friends, doing something you love, feeling great--
你可以和朋友在一起，做你喜欢的事情，感觉很棒——
We were backstage, you know, getting ready to go on, preparing.
你知道，我们在后台，准备继续，准备。
This is Dee Watson.
这是迪·沃森。
She was in a play a few weeks ago.
几周前她参加了一场演出。
And it was all black women.
而且都是黑人女性。
Most of us were a little bit bigger than the average, you know.
你知道，我们大多数人都比平均水平稍大一些。
And it was a supportive atmosphere.
这是一种支持性的氛围。
And the subject of big behinds came up.
大屁股的话题就出现了。
And me having one, I know all about it.
我也有一个，我知道这一切。
And one of the younger cast members-- she was about 25-- said, my mother thought your butt was so big it had to be a prop.
一位年轻的演员——大约 25 岁——说，我妈妈认为你的屁股太大了，一定是个道具。
Oh my god.
我的天啊。
Dee Watson And at that moment, I didn't hear anything else anybody said.
迪伊·沃森（Dee Watson）：在那一刻，我没有听到任何人说任何话。
I just was-- that was echoing through my head, and I could hear everybody laughing.
我只是——这在我的脑海中回响，我能听到每个人都在笑。
And oh my gosh, that's so funny.
哦天哪，这太有趣了。
And I'm standing there.
而我就站在那里。
I wanted to cry.
我想哭。
I really wanted to cry.
我真的很想哭。
And I really don't think this young girl really meant to hurt me.
我真的不认为这个年轻女孩真的想伤害我。
Well, and maybe it's like, you know, we're all women, so it's safe here to say anything.
好吧，也许就像，你知道，我们都是女性，所以在这里说任何话都是安全的。
Yeah.
是的。
I think she thought I would think that was funny, and I did not.
我想她认为我会觉得这很有趣，但我没有。
These are not statements that a human being forgets.
这些不是人类会忘记的陈述。
The moment you hear the observation, it becomes part of how you see yourself, seemingly forever.
当你听到这个观察的那一刻，它就成为你如何看待自己的一部分，似乎永远如此。
Even something tiny, if it hits you right, can turn into this chirpy little voicemail that your brain is never able to erase.
即使是一些微小的东西，如果它击中了你，也可以变成你的大脑永远无法抹去的欢快的小语音邮件。
And it doesn't have to be about looks.
而且它不一定是关于外观。
It can be a comment on how you run or laugh or drive, how much money you make, what books you've read or haven't read-- any outside assessment of you that you never saw coming and could not shake once it was uttered.
它可以是关于你如何跑步、笑或开车的评论，你赚了多少钱，你读过或没读过什么书——任何你从未见过的、一旦说出来就无法动摇的外界对你的评价。
One of our former producers, Jane Feltes-- she's actually now Jane Marie-- years ago dated a man who she later decided was a jerk.
我们的一位前制片人简·菲尔特斯（Jane Feltes）——她实际上现在是简·玛丽（Jane Marie）——几年前曾和一个男人约会过，后来她发现这个男人是个混蛋。
He wanted to make her feel insecure.
他想让她没有安全感。
But one night they were watching TV, and her feet were sticking up out of the blanket.
但有一天晚上，他们正在看电视，她的脚从毯子里伸出来。
And he turned to me, and he said, oh, you have juice box toes.
他转向我，说，哦，你有果汁盒脚趾。
And I was like, what?
我当时想，什么？
And he said, yeah, like Fred Flintstone feet.
他说，是的，就像弗莱德·燧石的脚。
He's a caveman-- literally a caveman.
他是一个穴居人——名副其实的穴居人。
A cartoon of a caveman-- a chubby, squat cartoon of a caveman.
穴居人的漫画——一个胖乎乎、矮胖的穴居人漫画。
And I know it sounds so stupid, because who cares what shape my toes are?
我知道这听起来很愚蠢，因为谁在乎我的脚趾是什么形状？
But you do want the person that you're in love with to just think that every part of you is amazing and beautiful-- or shut up about it.
但你确实希望你所爱的人只是认为你的每一部分都是令人惊叹和美丽的——或者对此闭嘴。
Or shut up about it.
或者闭嘴。
Maybe they're ugly.
也许他们很丑。
I don't know.
我不知道。
Now that I'm looking at them-- I don't know.
现在我看着它们——我不知道。
My big toe is definitely square.
我的大脚趾肯定是方形的。
When I get shy kids, one of the things I do with them is I try to give them permission to make fun of me.
当我遇到害羞的孩子时，我对他们做的一件事就是尝试允许他们取笑我。
This is a fifth grade teacher named Matthew Dicks, who is either the bravest or the most foolhardy man in America.
这是一位名叫马修·迪克斯的五年级老师，他要么是美国最勇敢的人，要么是最鲁莽的人。
And they often come out of their shells by becoming the person who can taunt the teacher.
他们常常会走出自己的外壳，成为可以嘲笑老师的人。
That sounds very dangerous.
这听起来很危险。
Matthew Dicks It is.
马修·迪克斯 是的。
I mean, you have to teach them where the line is.
我的意思是，你必须告诉他们底线在哪里。
And sometimes I don't know where the line is either.
有时我也不知道界限在哪里。
A few years ago, there was a girl in his class, very shy.
几年前，他班上有一个女孩，很害羞。
And she got the nod that it was OK for her to make fun of Matthew if she wanted.
她得到了点头，如果她愿意的话，可以取笑马修。
So one day she came in, and she just walked in very casually.
所以有一天她进来了，而且是很随意的走进去。
And she looked at me and she said, hi, Jerry.
她看着我说，嗨，杰瑞。
And I looked at her and I said, Jerry?
我看着她说，杰瑞？
And she said, never mind.
她说，没关系。
And she just walked away.
她就走开了。
And I knew she was setting me up for some joke.
我知道她是在陷害我开什么玩笑。
And it went on for days.
这种情况持续了好几天。
Every time she'd walk by me, she'd say, hey Jerry, how's it going?
每次她走过我身边时，她都会说，嘿，杰瑞，怎么样？
And so finally, after about a week, I couldn't take it anymore.
最后，大约一周后，我再也无法忍受了。
And she came in one morning and she said, how you doing, Jerry?
一天早上她进来了，她说，杰瑞，你好吗？
And I said, fine, who is Jerry?
我说，好吧，杰瑞是谁？
And she said, Jerry's your bald spot.
她说，杰瑞是你的秃头。
Yikes.
哎呀。
Matthew Dicks And I tried to play it off like, I don't have a bald spot.
马修·迪克斯：我试着假装自己没有秃头。
Go sit down.
快去坐下吧。
Give me a break.
让我休息一下。
Ha ha.
哈哈。
That was, like, the most ridiculous week-long joke I've ever heard in my life.
这就像是我一生中听过的最荒谬的长达一周的笑话。
But as soon as my kids left the room to go to gym, I ran to the bathroom, and I leaned over the sink.
但当我的孩子们离开房间去健身房时，我就跑到浴室，靠在水槽上。
And at the very top of my head, I had a bald spot that I had no idea about.
在我的头顶上，有一个我不知道的秃点。
Can I ask a logistical question?
我可以问一个后勤问题吗？
How does a fifth grader spot the top of your head?
五年级学生如何识别你的头顶？
Oh.
哦。
So in my classroom, I teach some Shakespeare to my students.
所以在我的教室里，我教我的学生一些莎士比亚。
And we have a stage in my classroom.
我的教室里有一个舞台。
I built a stage with curtains and lighting and everything.
我搭建了一个舞台，里面有窗帘、灯光等等。
So if you're standing on my stage in my classroom, you can look down on me.
所以如果你站在我教室里的讲台上，你就可以看不起我。
Now, you can say that Matthew brought this on himself.
现在，你可以说这是马太自找的。
He gives some students permission to make fun of him, and he built a stage where students can peer down at him in judgment.
他允许一些学生取笑他，他还搭建了一个舞台，让学生们可以俯视他并做出评判。
But even if he did none of that, he's still a sitting duck for this exact kind of critical gaze.
但即使他什么也没做，他仍然是这种批评目光的靶子。
You have 20 people-- you have 20 students, would you say?
你有 20 个人——你有 20 个学生，你会说吗？
OK, so between 20 and 30 people looking at you all day, every work day, and just taking stock of you.
好吧，每个工作日都有 20 到 30 个人整天看着你，只是对你进行评估。
Yes, it's constant.
是的，它是恒定的。
I had pinkeye a couple of weeks ago.
几周前我得了红眼病。
The kids knew I had pinkeye before I did, you know, because they just stare at you all day.
你知道，孩子们比我早知道我得了红眼病，因为他们整天盯着你看。
And they see any sort of minute change in you.
他们会看到你身上任何微小的变化。
You know, you're really the only thing they look at for a great majority of the day.
你知道，他们一天中大部分时间里唯一关注的就是你。
So they notice these little things.
所以他们注意到这些小事情。
If I get a new shirt, they immediately notice.
如果我买了一件新衬衫，他们会立即注意到。
Everything that changes about me, they notice right away.
我的一切变化，他们都会立即注意到。
Today on the radio show, I, Nancy "Yellow Neck" Updike bring you stories about people facing the unexpected moment of realizing how other people see them, what that means, and what in God's name to do about it.
今天在广播节目中，我，“黄脖子”南希·厄普代克为您带来一些故事，讲述人们面临意想不到的时刻，意识到其他人如何看待他们，这意味着什么，以及以上帝的名义该怎么做。
Today's show "Is That What I Look Like?" Prepare to learn the truth.
今天的节目《这就是我的样子吗？》准备好了解真相。
Plus, a special guest appearance that will surprise and delight you.
此外，还有一位特别嘉宾的亮相，一定会给您带来惊喜和喜悦。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Blunt Force.
第一幕，钝力。
Domingo Martinez has this story about a vision in Brownsville, Texas.
多明戈·马丁内斯讲述了德克萨斯州布朗斯维尔的一个愿景的故事。
Here's Domingo.
这是多明戈。
When I was 16, I realized as far as my family went, school was considered my time, which meant I couldn't be pressed into labor by my father or grandmother.
当我 16 岁时，我意识到就我的家庭而言，学校被视为我的时间，这意味着我不能被父亲或祖母强迫去分娩。
They were farm workers, and they made no claim on my time when I was supposed to be in school.
他们是农场工人，当我应该上学时，他们没有占用我的时间。
So I learned to take advantage of this.
所以我学会了利用这一点。
I'd make it to school before 7:30 AM, either by school bus or my mother's Taurus, and then wait out options for escape.
我会在早上 7:30 之前赶到学校，要么乘坐校车，要么乘坐我母亲的 Taurus，然后等待逃跑的选择。
By my sophomore year, this kid named Tony Garcia had become my primary friend.
到了我大二的时候，这个名叫托尼·加西亚的孩子已经成为我最好的朋友。
Tony was nearly 19 and only a junior, but he didn't seem all that bad because he had good parents and an even better little brother, who was about to lap him at graduation.
托尼快十九岁了，还只是个大三学生，但他看起来并没有那么糟糕，因为他有很好的父母，还有一个更好的弟弟，毕业时弟弟就要超越他了。
Together, Tony and I would find ways to while away the hours by doing anything other than attending class before we had to report home again.
在必须再次回家报到之前，托尼和我会一起想办法通过做除上课以外的任何事情来消磨时间。
We were big fans of Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer, and we believed we were continuing a long celebrated American tradition by ditching class and getting stoned, a fantasy combination of Mark Twain and Hunter S.
我们是《哈克贝利·费恩历险记》和《汤姆·索亚历险记》的忠实粉丝，我们相信，我们正在延续一项久负盛名的美国传统，即抛弃阶级、嗑药，这是马克·吐温和亨特·S·的奇幻组合。
Thompson.
汤普森.
But really, we were just lazy and looking for a good time.
但实际上，我们只是懒惰并寻找美好时光。
The skipping itself was not a problem.
跳过本身并不是问题。
The problem was taking care of our grades and absences on our report cards before they reached our parents.
问题是在我们的成绩单上记录我们的成绩和缺勤情况，然后再送到我们的父母那里。
And it was actually Tony who initiated me into the trade that I'd eventually pursue, graphic design.
实际上是托尼引导我进入了我最终追求的行业——平面设计。
But in this early stage in high school, it was plain and simple forgery.
但在高中的早期阶段，这只是简单的伪造。
There was no design in what we were doing.
我们所做的事情没有任何设计。
It was Tony who placed the first X-Acto knife I ever held in my hands, and immediately I felt an overwhelming sense of possibility holding that little penknife.
托尼将我手中的第一把 X-Acto 刀放在了我的手中，我立即感觉到握着那把小小刀的可能性是压倒性的。
We'd intercept the report cards when they came in the mail.
当成绩单邮寄过来时，我们会截取它们。
And then Tony took careful pains to explain this whole process to me, his flunky-- a term that came uncomfortably close to becoming literal-- over the photocopier in the library, feeding dimes into the machine like he was playing slots, in search of a copy that didn't blur or show the incisions in the original.
然后托尼煞费苦心地在图书馆的复印机上向我解释整个过程，他的跟班——一个令人不安地接近字面意义的术语——像玩老虎机一样把一毛钱塞进机器里，寻找一份不会模糊或显示原件切口的副本。
Look, man, he said through his trendy and tinted John Lennon glasses, a wanker style even then, you've just got to remove the two from the 23 absences and then lighten the reproduction, and now you've got three absences in first period instead of 23.
听着，伙计，他透过他那副时髦的有色约翰·列侬眼镜说道，即使在当时，这也是一种狂妄的风格，你只需要把 23 次缺席中的 2 次去掉，然后减轻复制，现在你在第一节就缺席了 3 次，而不是 23 次。
Now take the eight from the 48, move the four over, and put the eight in front of that, and now you have a B in Spanish instead of an F.
现在从 48 中取出 8，将 4 移过去，然后将 8 放在前面，现在西班牙语中的 F 变成了 B。
Oh, I said, in total understanding, a big smile growing on my face.
哦，我完全理解了，脸上露出灿烂的笑容。
Give a man a ride, he skips for a day.
给一个人一程，他会跳过一天。
Teach him how to forge--
教他如何锻造——
It was ridiculously shortsighted, sure.
当然，这是极其短视的。
But at that age, I never thought further than the immediate threat.
但在那个年纪，我除了眼前的威胁之外从未考虑过更多事情。
Simply convincing my mother everything was quiet at school was enough for me.
对我来说，只要让妈妈相信学校里一切都很安静就足够了。
Dealing with school records and the larger consequences of robbing myself of even a substandard education, all that I would face at a later date-- and certainly have.
处理学校记录以及剥夺自己甚至不合格教育的更大后果，这一切都是我以后会面临的——而且肯定会遇到。
Tony would usually borrow his mother's car for our expeditions, a blue Oldsmobile Delta 88.
托尼通常会借用他母亲的汽车来参加我们的探险活动，这是一辆蓝色的奥兹莫比尔 Delta 88。
We'd leave school and drive to South Padre Island, a resort town at the end of a 28 mile highway that felt much more cosmopolitan than Brownsville, Texas, ever could.
我们离开学校，开车前往南帕德里岛，这是一个位于 28 英里高速公路尽头的度假小镇，感觉比德克萨斯州布朗斯维尔更加国际化。
We did that drive, back and forth, three or four times a day, listening to Led Zeppelin, nodding our heads in unison with whomever else was stoned or drunk in the car.
我们每天开车来来回回三四次，听着齐柏林飞艇的音乐，与车里吸毒或喝醉的其他人一致点头。
My junior year and his senior year, Tony's parents bought him a Dodge Daytona.
我大三和大四的时候，托尼的父母给他买了一辆道奇代托纳。
It was the year he would most assuredly graduate, they felt, and it was a chance for him to develop responsibility.
他们认为，这是他最有把握毕业的一年，也是他培养责任感的机会。
In the mornings, the minute my mother would drop me off at school and disappear around the corner, Tony would drive around and park right in front of the school to pick me up, right in front of everybody.
早上，当我妈妈送我去学校并消失在拐角处时，托尼就会开车兜风，把车停在学校前面来接我，就在所有人面前。
Dude, you gotta come skipping with me today, he'd say.
伙计，你今天一定要跟我一起去跳绳，他会说。
But on one particular morning late in 1988, I balk.
但在 1988 年末的一个特定早晨，我犹豫了。
Nah, Tony.
不，托尼。
I gotta go back to class today, I protest.
我今天必须回去上课，我抗议。
It's Thursday, and I haven't been since last week.
今天是星期四，自从上周以来我就没有去过。
Look, he says, I got two signed reentry slips.
他说，你看，我有两张签名的返回单。
I can get you back in tomorrow or next week.
我可以让你明天或下周回来。
It's not a problem.
这不是问题。
And I found a new place to get killer weed.
我还找到了一个可以获取致命杂草的新地方。
Finding pot was always a problem, so when Tony said he found someone new, and it wasn't one of the morons who hung out by the tennis courts before school, I was intrigued.
寻找大麻总是一个问题，所以当托尼说他找到了新朋友，而且不是放学前在网球场闲逛的白痴时，我很好奇。
We first drive to a housing project east of school, where a woman sold $2 quarts of Budweiser out of her living room from a cooler to anyone with money, no questions asked.
我们首先驱车前往学校东边的一个住房项目，在那里，一位女士从她客厅的冷藏柜里把价值 2 美元的百威啤酒卖给任何有钱的人，不问任何问题。
We buy a couple of quarts and smoke the last half-joint Tony has on the way to his new killer weed supplier.
我们买了几夸脱，抽了托尼在去他新的杀手杂草供应商的路上剩下的最后半支烟。
I was getting a bit high when I began to recognize the route he was taking and was then thoroughly taken aback when he drove right into my grandmother's driveway.
当我开始认出他走的路线时，我有点兴奋，当他直接开进我祖母的车道时，我彻底吃了一惊。
I couldn't understand why.
我不明白为什么。
It just didn't make sense.
这根本没有道理。
This was the same driveway my family Pontiac would regularly pull into after church on Sundays when I was growing up in the late 1970s-- my mother's mother's house in downtown Brownsville.
当我在 20 世纪 70 年代末长大时，我家的庞蒂亚克 (Pontiac) 周日做完礼拜后经常把车停在这条车道上——我母亲的母亲在布朗斯维尔市中心的房子。
I was, I think the term is, unnerved.
我，我想这个词是，感到不安。
My two uncles, Johnny and Abel, were working on a '79 Camaro when Tony drives up and parks, hood to hood, with their car.
我的两个叔叔，约翰尼和阿贝尔，正在修理一辆 79 年款科迈罗，这时托尼开着他们的车，从引擎盖到引擎盖停了下来。
The hood was up, and they were both leaning into the guts of the engine, their heads popped up like bearded biker prairie dogs.
引擎盖升起，他们都靠在发动机的内部，他们的头像长着胡子的骑自行车的土拨鼠一样伸出来。
I sat frozen in the passenger seat, uncertain what to do next.
我坐在副驾驶座上，一动不动，不知道下一步该做什么。
Tony, noticing that I was startled, tells me to be cool, to chill out.
托尼注意到我很吃惊，就告诉我要冷静，冷静下来。
These guys look mean, but they're all right.
这些人看上去很卑鄙，但他们都很好。
Anyways, he says as he's getting out of the driver's side, they're kind of dumb, but they got great weed.
无论如何，当他离开驾驶员一侧时，他说，他们有点蠢，但他们有很棒的大麻。
Didn't I know it.
难道我不知道吗。
Abel and Johnny had a long history with local biker gangs, even a rumored affiliation with the Hell's Angels.
亚伯和约翰尼与当地的摩托党帮派有着悠久的历史，甚至有传言称他们与地狱天使有联系。
They could get drugs nobody else could in this town.
他们可以获得这个镇上其他人无法获得的毒品。
And as a result, they were total burnouts, hardly capable of cogent speech patterns in either English or Spanish.
结果，他们完全精疲力尽，几乎无法用英语或西班牙语进行令人信服的演讲模式。
They landed in jail as often as other people attended church.
他们入狱的次数与其他人去教堂的次数一样多。
But what they lacked in brains they certainly made up in brawn-- not that they'd tear apart a teenager like Tony or me, not in the daylight anyway.
但他们在头脑上的缺乏肯定是用肌肉来弥补的——并不是说他们会撕碎像托尼或我这样的青少年，至少不会在光天化日之下。
They had a code about that sort of thing.
他们有关于此类事情的守则。
But if they felt cheated, they'd have taken a tire iron to my head long before they recognized me as their nephew.
但如果他们觉得自己被骗了，早在他们认出我是他们的侄子之前，他们就会用轮胎熨斗敲打我的头。
They were that burned out.
他们已经精疲力竭了。
So I sit there paralyzed in the front seat, side B of Houses of the Holy playing on Tony's cassette deck.
于是我坐在前座上，瘫痪了，B 侧的 Houses of the Holy 正在托尼的盒式录音机上播放。
And because it's hot, the AC is blasting.
因为天气很热，空调开得很大。
So once Tony closes the door, I can't hear anything.
所以一旦托尼关上门，我就听不到任何声音。
I just watch as this terrifying pantomime plays out before me.
我只是看着这可怕的哑剧在我面前上演。
Tony, half-shaven in his preppy clothes, closes a door and hails his greeting.
托尼穿着学院风的衣服，刮了一半胡子，关上门，向他打招呼。
My uncle Abel, already brain dead from years of sniffing paint, narrows his eyes in suspicion and then noiselessly responds with a nodding.
我的叔叔阿贝尔因多年嗅油漆而已经脑死亡，他怀疑地眯起眼睛，然后默默地点点头。
Hey.
嘿。
Tony averts eye contact, looking anywhere but directly at Abel for fear that Abel might charge like a gorilla.
托尼避免目光接触，看向任何地方，但不直视亚伯，因为担心亚伯会像大猩猩一样冲锋。
Abel gives him a suspicious, quick upward jut of the chin that says, did I sell to you before?
亚伯怀疑地朝他扬起下巴，说道，我以前卖给你过吗？
Who told you I got weed?
谁告诉你我有大麻了？
Tony lowers his head in quiet confidence, talking to Abel.
托尼自信地低下头，与亚伯交谈。
Then my uncle Johnny nods towards me in the car, says something to Tony.
然后我叔叔约翰尼在车里向我点点头，对托尼说了些什么。
They all turn to look at me.
他们都转头看着我。
My eyes go wide, a big smile on my face, nodding.
我睁大眼睛，脸上露出灿烂的笑容，点点头。
Tony says something, and then they all laugh together.
托尼说了些什么，然后他们一起笑了。
Led Zeppelin still plays loudly in the car.
车里仍然大声播放着齐柏林飞艇的音乐。
Then my uncle Abel slaps Tony on the back and leads him around to the back of the car, right where I am.
然后我叔叔亚伯拍拍托尼的背，带他绕到车后部，就在我所在的地方。
Johnny stands there too, looking at me and smiling, makes his index finger and thumb into a mock roach, and laughs.
约翰尼也站在那里，微笑着看着我，把他的食指和拇指做出了模仿蟑螂的样子，然后大笑起来。
I mimic the roach back.
我模仿蟑螂的背影。
Even now, he doesn't recognize me.
即使现在，他也不认识我。
Then Tony and Abel emerge around the other side of the car with Tony's hand in his pocket, and both of them are laughing like they're suddenly old friends.
然后托尼和阿贝尔出现在车的另一边，托尼的手插在口袋里，他们俩都笑着，就像突然成为了老朋友一样。
Tony turns and waves, and both Johnny and Abel wave back.
托尼转身挥手，约翰尼和亚伯也向他挥手。
The door opens, and Tony says, dude, we got a big joint for $2, as he gets in the driver's seat.
门打开了，托尼坐进驾驶座时说，伙计，我们花 2 美元买了一大块大麻烟。
This has freaked me out to no end.
这让我吓坏了。
Abel and Johnny are both waving, making the universal roach-smoking signal as we drive off, and it leaves me feeling really, really conflicted.
当我们开车离开时，亚伯和约翰尼都在挥手，发出普遍的蟑螂吸烟信号，这让我感到非常非常矛盾。
The car slips up the southernmost terminus of Highway 77, and we head north from urban Brownsville to drive around as we smoke the joint.
汽车在 77 号高速公路最南端的终点站滑行，我们从布朗斯维尔市区向北行驶，边抽大麻边开车。
Tony lights it, and it starts burning purple.
托尼点燃它，它开始燃烧紫色。
Purple Haze, he says, and then follows it with his characteristic, ahh!
紫霞，他说道，然后按照他的特点，啊！
Hey man, I say, I'm kind of scared about smoking this.
嘿伙计，我说，我有点害怕抽烟。
I've never seen one burn this color.
我从来没有见过有人烧出这种颜色。
Aw dude, says Tony, don't worry about it.
噢，伙计，托尼说，别担心。
Those guys got killer weed, man.
那些家伙有致命的大麻，伙计。
They're, like, bikers or something.
他们就像骑自行车的人什么的。
It's probably laced with something.
大概是夹杂着什么东西吧。
That's why it was $2.
这就是为什么它是2美元。
This idea sounds appealing to Tony.
这个想法听起来对托尼很有吸引力。
It scares the [BLEEP] out of me.
它吓坏了我[BLEEP]。
We're both getting incredibly high.
我们都变得非常高。
Hey man, says Tony, wouldn't it be messed up if, like, when you were high, your hair went into, like, a huge orange Afro, and the higher you were, the bigger your Afro got?
嘿，伙计，托尼说，如果，就像，当你嗨的时候，你的头发变成一个巨大的橙色爆炸头，而你站得越高，你的爆炸头就越大，那不是很混乱吗？
You couldn't go anywhere, because people would be like, man, that guy's stoned.
你哪儿也去不了，因为人们会说，伙计，那家伙喝醉了。
I sit there in Tony's car and think about my uncles, Johnny and Abel.
我坐在托尼的车里，想着我的叔叔约翰尼和亚伯。
Johnny had been stabbed in the back with a flat-headed screwdriver about a month earlier in a street fight.
大约一个月前，约翰尼在一场街头斗殴中被平头螺丝刀刺伤背部。
His lung had been punctured, and my grandmother said you could hear whistling every time he inhaled.
他的肺部被刺穿了，我祖母说他每次吸气时你都能听到口哨声。
He wouldn't go to the hospital to get it treated for three days.
他已经三天没有去医院治疗了。
We're halfway done with the joint when I say to Tony, hey man, I don't want to get stoned anymore.
当我对托尼说，嘿伙计，我不想再吸大麻时，我们已经完成了一半。
All right, well, put it out, Tony says, nodding his head back and forth to Zeppelin.
好吧，好吧，把它灭了，托尼说，向齐柏林飞艇来回点头。
Tony's left hand is fingering chords into the neck of an imaginary guitar as he's driving.
托尼一边开车，一边用左手在想象中的吉他琴颈上弹奏和弦。
I watch his fingers move for a few seconds, suspended and twisting around like they're an overturned King crab, and I can find no correlation with the chords in the song.
我观察他的手指移动了几秒钟，悬浮并扭转，就像一只翻倒的帝王蟹，我找不到与歌曲中和弦的任何关联。
Man, I mean I don't want to smoke pot anymore, I say to him.
伙计，我的意思是我不想再吸大麻了，我对他说。
I don't want to skip class anymore.
我不想再逃课了。
I want to get back to school.
我想回到学校。
Not today, but, like, in general.
不是今天，而是一般情况下。
I don't want to feel like this anymore, like I'm doing something bad.
我不想再有这样的感觉了，就像我在做坏事一样。
I feel like this all the time now, dirty.
我现在总有这样的感觉，肮脏。
Look at that really [BLEEP] small house over there.
看看那边那个真的[哔]的小房子。
We were on an overpass, and I just noticed a house beneath us in the Brownsville Country Club, about a quarter of the size of the houses surrounding it.
我们在立交桥上，我刚刚注意到我们下面布朗斯维尔乡村俱乐部的一所房子，大约是周围房子的四分之一大小。
Tony starts laughing so hard I have to make him focus back on the driving, but then I laugh along with him.
托尼开始笑得很厉害，我不得不让他把注意力重新集中到开车上，但随后我也跟着他笑了。
You're stoned, he tells me.
你已经醉了，他告诉我。
Yeah, I say.
是的，我说。
I'm way stoned.
我已经石化了。
Hey, man, I say a little later-- we're driving back to South Padre Island now-- you know those guys we bought weed from earlier today?
嘿，伙计，我稍后再说——我们现在开车回南帕德里岛——你认识我们今天早些时候买大麻的那些人吗？
The bikers, Tony says.
托尼说，骑自行车的人。
That was my grandmother's house, man.
那是我祖母的房子，伙计。
Those are my uncles, I say, even though I'm really embarrassed by it.
我说，那些是我的叔叔，尽管我对此感到非常尴尬。
Tony finds this befuddling.
托尼觉得这令人困惑。
He can't figure out what the bikers were doing at my grandmother's house.
他不明白那些骑自行车的人在我祖母家里做什么。
Those dudes were my mom's brothers, man, my uncles, I explain.
我解释说，那些家伙是我妈妈的兄弟，伙计，我的叔叔。
Tony is laughing so hard he has to pull over to the side of the road.
托尼笑得太厉害了，他不得不把车停到路边。
His laughing is infectious, and I find myself laughing right along with him, laughing harder than I have laughed in a really, really long time.
他的笑很有感染力，我发现自己也跟着他一起笑，笑得比我很长一段时间都笑得更厉害。
But I'm feeling utterly beyond redemption on the inside, like I had just done something today that I couldn't take back, like my course was now set.
但我内心感到完全无法救赎，就像我今天刚刚做了一些我无法收回的事情，就像我的路线现在已经确定一样。
Domingo Martinez, reading a story from his memoir, The Boy Kings of Texas .
多明戈·马丁内斯正在阅读他的回忆录《德克萨斯男孩国王》中的故事。
He's got a new book coming out this fall called My Heart is a Drunken Compass .
他今年秋天出版了一本新书，名为《我的心是醉酒的罗盘》。
[MUSIC - "WRONG CROWD" BY PRINCE GEORGE]
[音乐 - 乔治王子的《错误的人群》]
Act Two: One Life To Live Nancy Updike Act Two, One Life to Live.
第二幕：一生一世 南希·厄普代克 第二幕，一生一世。
Having a blind spot about yourself is not the end of the world, depending on what it is and how big it is.
对自己有盲点并不是世界末日，这取决于它是什么以及它有多大。
Sometimes that's all hard to tell, though, without outside eyes.
但有时，如果没有外界的眼睛，这一切都很难说清楚。
This next story we changed some of the names.
在下一个故事中，我们更改了一些名称。
It's a complicated situation that's still unfolding.
这是一个仍在发展中的复杂情况。
Sarah got into a bad car accident last year.
莎拉去年遭遇了一场严重的车祸。
She was in a coma with a traumatic brain injury, and her doctors thought she might die.
她因脑外伤而处于昏迷状态，医生认为她可能会死亡。
But after 52 days in the coma, she woke up.
但在昏迷了52天后，她醒了。
Our producer Miki Meek tells the story of what happened next.
我们的制片人 Miki Meek 讲述了接下来发生的故事。
Waking up from a coma doesn't happen all at once.
从昏迷中醒来并不是一下子就会发生的。
It's a slow process, like coming awake over months, sometimes even years.
这是一个缓慢的过程，就像几个月甚至几年后才醒来。
For Sarah, it took almost three months before she could talk well enough to have a simple conversation and another four months for her to get out of the hospital and go home to live with her parents.
对于莎拉来说，她花了近三个月的时间才能够很好地进行简单的对话，又花了四个月的时间才出院回家与父母住在一起。
She still needed a lot of care, but she was really excited to spend time with her husband Billy.
她仍然需要很多照顾，但她真的很高兴能和丈夫比利共度时光。
He had a birthday party.
他举办了一个生日聚会。
And that's when I just said, will you give me a kiss, please?
就在那时我才说，请你吻我一下好吗？
And he was like, mm-- maybe I can give you one of these.
他说，嗯——也许我可以给你其中一件。
And he turned my head and kissed me on the cheek.
他转过我的头，吻了我的脸颊。
So I was hurt and kind of frustrated and annoyed.
所以我很受伤，有点沮丧和恼火。
Sarah thought maybe Billy was just worried about getting her sick, so she made a comment about it to her stepmom Alice when they got in the car to go home.
莎拉认为比利可能只是担心让她生病，所以当他们上车回家时，她向继母爱丽丝说了这件事。
I said, I think that Billy is worried he'll get me sick because he won't kiss me.
我说，我认为比利担心他会让我生病，因为他不吻我。
And that's when she said--
就在那时她说——
We need to talk.
我们需要谈谈。
And that's when I had the impression she was ready.
就在那时我觉得她已经准备好了。
I said, it feels different.
我说，感觉不一样了。
Being with Billy, it feels different.
和比利在一起，感觉不一样。
She's like, yeah, it does.
她说，是的，确实如此。
I was, like, well, that's because you guys aren't married anymore.
我当时想，好吧，那是因为你们不再结婚了。
You're divorced.
你离婚了。
Sarah had forgotten the entire two years before her accident.
莎拉已经忘记了事故发生前的整整两年。
She'd forgotten the fact that during those two years she had fallen out of love with her husband and divorced him.
她忘记了，在那两年里，她已经不再爱她的丈夫了，并与他离婚了。
Here's what she did remember-- she remembered her wedding day in 1998.
这是她确实记得的事情——她记得 1998 年的婚礼。
She was 17, and Billy was 20.
她17岁，比利20岁。
She had just found out she was pregnant with twins.
她刚刚发现自己怀上了双胞胎。
Sarah remembered the house where their family grew from two kids to four.
莎拉记得他们一家从两个孩子成长为四个孩子的房子。
It was in a small town out west, just down the street from her parents.
那是在西部的一个小镇上，就在她父母的街上。
She remembered family camping trips on the weekends, baseball games, and dinner together every night-- 13 years of memories like that.
她记得周末全家露营、打棒球、每天晚上一起吃饭——这样的回忆长达13年。
It wasn't always perfect.
它并不总是完美的。
Billy joined the National Guard and was gone a lot.
比利加入了国民警卫队，之后经常离开。
He served in Iraq.
他曾在伊拉克服役。
Sometimes he had a bad temper.
有时他脾气很坏。
But they loved each other.
但他们彼此相爱。
There was a lot more to the story, and her family really wanted to sit her down and fill all those memories back in for her.
这个故事还有很多内容，她的家人真的很想让她坐下来，为她填补所有这些记忆。
But the doctors told them they had to be cautious.
但医生告诉他们必须小心谨慎。
Let things come up naturally for Sarah.
让莎拉的事情自然发生。
Let her brain set the pace.
让她的大脑来决定节奏。
That was the best way for her to recover.
这是让她康复的最好方法。
So when her stepmom told her about her divorce, Sarah was shocked and confused.
因此，当继母告诉她离婚的消息时，莎拉感到震惊和困惑。
And for her, there was only one question.
而对于她来说，只有一个问题。
Do you think it's too late?
你觉得太晚了吗？
Do you think I can get him back?
你觉得我能把他找回来吗？
The next day, Sarah called up Billy and asked him to come over.
第二天，莎拉打电话给比利，请他过来。
And I just flat out said, my stepmom says that we got divorced, and I'm hoping that you'll take me back.
我就直截了当地说，我继母说我们离婚了，我希望你能带我回去。
And when I first said it, then he did smile.
当我第一次这么说时，他确实笑了。
But then he got kind of stern and more serious.
但后来他变得更加严厉和严肃。
And I told her, well, I need to take my time.
我告诉她，好吧，我需要慢慢来。
When one person loses two years, it forces everyone else around them to go back in time too.
当一个人失去了两年的时间时，他周围的其他人也会被迫回到过去。
Billy had never wanted the divorce, but he understood why Sarah left him.
比利从来没有想过离婚，但他理解莎拉离开他的原因。
She had come to despise him during those two years she had forgotten.
在她已经忘记的那两年里，她开始鄙视他。
And now here was the old Sarah again, the one who still loved him, calling him regularly.
现在，原来的莎拉又出现了，她仍然爱着他，经常给他打电话。
Like, hey Billy, you know, it's really good to hear your voice.
就像，嘿比利，你知道，听到你的声音真是太好了。
And I was like, well, that's awesome.
我当时想，嗯，那太棒了。
It's really good to hear you too, you know?
很高兴听到你的声音，你知道吗？
She was like, Billy, I love you so much.
她说，比利，我非常爱你。
The "so" was always-- that stood out.
“所以”总是很突出。
Yeah, it was weird.
是的，这很奇怪。
I'm not going to lie to you, it was like, oh my goodness.
我不会对你撒谎，就像，天哪。
This was tough.
这很艰难。
I was in a spot where I'm like, oh, why?
我当时就想，哦，为什么？
Why are you telling me this?
你为什么告诉我这个？
This is not what I want to hear, you know.
你知道，这不是我想听的。
And then the other part of me is telling me, like, yes, this is what I want to hear.
然后我的另一部分告诉我，是的，这就是我想听到的。
As much as Billy wanted to hear it, the rest of Sarah's family did not.
尽管比利很想听，但莎拉的其他家人却不愿意。
She was falling back in love with a guy she wanted nothing to do with before her accident.
她重新爱上了一个在事故发生之前她不想与之有任何关系的男人。
Her sister Jessica remembers watching all of this with alarm.
她的妹妹杰西卡记得惊慌地看着这一切。
She would get this little schoolgirl look on her face and, like, bat her eyes, like a little teenager looking at their crush.
她的脸上会有一种小女学生的表情，然后眨着眼睛，就像一个小十几岁的孩子在看着自己的暗恋对象。
And she's like, hi, Billy!
她就像，嗨，比利！
And so I would just look at her so disgusted, just sitting there, zipping my mouth closed so that I don't say, you are divorced.
所以我会如此厌恶地看着她，只是坐在那里，闭紧我的嘴，这样我就不会说，你离婚了。
You are divorced for a reason.
你们离婚是有原因的。
Like, stop batting your eyes at him.
就像，别再对他眨眼了。
You don't like him.
你不喜欢他。
Sarah's family remembered very clearly what Sarah herself did not, the many reasons why she had left Billy, why she was living with them now, not him.
莎拉的家人清楚地记得莎拉自己不记得的事情，她离开比利的众多原因，为什么她现在和他们住在一起，而不是他。
Her daughter Kristen recalled getting into an argument with her dad.
她的女儿克里斯汀回忆起与父亲的争吵。
The situation escalated, like it always did.
情况像往常一样升级。
As Kristen was telling me the story, she pointed to a patched up hole in the basement wall.
当克里斯汀向我讲述这个故事时，她指着地下室墙上一个修补好的洞。
That hole in the wall was my mom's breaking point.
墙上的那个洞就是我妈妈的崩溃点。
My dad tried to swing at me, and he barely missed my head.
我爸爸试图向我挥拳，但他差一点就击中了我的头。
And I just remember my mom was so quiet that night.
我只记得那天晚上我妈妈很安静。
Like, she didn't want to go upstairs.
比如说，她不想上楼。
She didn't want to go find my dad.
她不想去找我爸爸。
She was scared.
她很害怕。
And she looked at the wall, and she was looking at me.
她看着墙，她也在看着我。
And I was sitting on the ground crying.
而我则坐在地上哭泣。
I yelled at her that night, divorce him.
那天晚上我就对她大喊，跟他离婚。
And one day she wrote him a letter, and when he came home from work, he found the letter that said, you need to pack up your stuff and leave.
有一天，她给他写了一封信，当他下班回家时，他发现信上写着：你需要收拾东西离开。
My mom had had it.
我妈妈曾经经历过。
Sarah didn't remember this moment of Billy punching a hole in the wall until she had a conversation with her bishop at church.
莎拉不记得比利在墙上打洞的那一刻，直到她在教堂与主教交谈。
She and Billy had gone to this bishop for counseling when they were married.
她和比利结婚时曾向这位主教寻求咨询。
Now she was going back to him on a detective mission of sorts.
现在她要回到他身边，执行某种侦探任务。
She knew she had left Billy, but maybe the bishop could help her remember why.
她知道她已经离开了比利，但也许主教可以帮助她记住原因。
And he was like, you were tired.
他说，你累了。
You were so tired of the emotional abuse.
你已经厌倦了情感虐待。
He punched a hole in the wall.
他在墙上打了一个洞。
And I remembered it instantly.
我立刻就记住了。
And I thought, oh yeah, I can remember that.
我想，哦，是的，我记得这一点。
And it makes sense as to why I would have divorced him with all the things we were dealing with.
这也解释了为什么我会因为我们正在处理的所有事情而与他离婚。
So this is what Sarah's life is like right now.
这就是莎拉现在的生活。
Memories of her and Billy's bad times are starting to pop back into her mind.
她和比利的糟糕时光的记忆开始重新浮现在她的脑海中。
Some are big, like the time he threw scissors at her and cut her under her eye.
有些事很严重，比如他向她扔剪刀，割伤了她的眼睛。
Others are small.
其他的都比较小。
There's no particular order to them.
它们没有特定的顺序。
She says she gets a new memory every two weeks or so.
她说她每两周左右就会获得新的记忆。
When it comes to me, it's just like a light gets switched on in my head.
当谈到我时，就像我脑子里亮起了一盏灯。
So it goes from darkness and nothing being there to all of a sudden something is there.
所以它从黑暗中什么都没有变成突然有东西存在。
Like, a recent one is that he would take my phone and read through my phone all the time because he thought that the only reason I wanted a divorce was because I wanted to date other men.
比如，最近的一次是他会拿走我的手机并一直阅读我的手机，因为他认为我想要离婚的唯一原因是因为我想和其他男人约会。
While we were talking, another memory appeared right in front of me.
当我们说话的时候，另一段记忆出现在我的面前。
This one was about how by the end of their marriage, they were going out of their way just to be mean to each other.
这个故事讲述的是，在他们的婚姻结束时，他们如何不遗余力地互相刻薄。
Sarah would tell Billy all the time that she liked her friends better than him.
莎拉总是告诉比利，她比他更喜欢她的朋友。
I think I used to tell him that my friends were number one and that he was number two.
我想我曾经告诉过他，我的朋友是第一，他是第二。
And so I was definitely hurting his feelings.
所以我肯定伤害了他的感情。
That was a memory that just barely came-- like, just now while we were talking.
那是一段刚刚出现的记忆——就在我们谈话的时候。
Sarah's biggest problem is that she knows her marriage got bad.
莎拉最大的问题是她知道自己的婚姻变得很糟糕。
She knows those facts.
她知道这些事实。
But she just can't remember the feelings-- the feelings of being so fed up that she stopped wanting to work it out with Billy.
但她就是不记得当时的感受——那种厌倦了她不再想和比利解决问题的感觉。
Not being able to access those feelings is one reason it's so hard to accept the decision she made back then.
无法体会这些感受是她很难接受她当时做出的决定的原因之一。
But there's another layer to the story.
但故事还有另一层。
That guy she wanted to divorce has, by all accounts, changed.
从各方面来看，她想离婚的那个人已经变了。
The before and after in Sarah's life was the accident.
莎拉一生的前后就是那次意外。
In Billy's it was the divorce.
比利的事情就是离婚。
He was devastated by their break-up.
他们的分手让他很伤心。
He started reading self-help books, going to church, and for a while he was seeing three different counselors.
他开始阅读自助书籍，去教堂，有一段时间他见了三位不同的辅导员。
Everything was just angry.
一切都只是愤怒。
It was just-- I was always mad.
只是——我总是很生气。
So I would just react to everything.
所以我只会对一切做出反应。
You know, some of the stuff that just sort of came up is, you know, grabbing your daughter and putting her up against the wall and punching a hole.
你知道，刚刚出现的一些事情是，你知道，抓住你的女儿，把她放在墙上，然后打一个洞。
I'll tell you this-- I will take full responsibility for that.
我告诉你——我将对此承担全部责任。
I shouldn't have punched a wall.
我不应该撞墙。
I shouldn't have, and I did.
我不应该这么做，但我确实这么做了。
Of course that makes me regret it.
当然这让我很后悔。
I feel bad.
我心情不好。
I feel horrible.
我感觉很可怕。
I feel-- I wish I would have listened more.
我觉得——我希望我能多听一些。
I wish I would have got the help I needed and admitted.
我希望我能得到我需要的帮助并承认。
And after I lost everything, that's the only time I really refocused and thought, wait a minute, I lost it all.
在我失去一切之后，那是我唯一一次真正重新集中注意力并想，等一下，我失去了一切。
Now I've got to start over.
现在我必须重新开始。
Billy did start over, mainly by repairing his relationship with his kids.
比利确实重新开始，主要是修复与孩子们的关系。
They've been living with Billy full-time since Sarah's accident, and it's going well.
自从莎拉出事后，他们就一直和比利住在一起，一切进展顺利。
Their daughter Kristen says Billy's like a different person.
他们的女儿克里斯汀说比利就像变了一个人。
He listens more now and wants to talk problems out.
他现在更多地倾听并想把问题说出来。
Me and my dad are really close.
我和我爸爸的关系真的很亲密。
Throughout time, after him and my mom got divorced, he figured out ways to control his anger.
在他和我妈妈离婚后，他一直在想办法控制自己的愤怒。
I mean, my dad's really good at keeping calm-- now.
我的意思是，我爸爸现在真的很擅长保持冷静。
Now he is.
现在他是了。
And he's really good at handling situations with us.
他真的很擅长处理我们的情况。
And so I'm not saying I'm glad my mom wrecked.
所以我并不是说我很高兴我妈妈被毁了。
But I wouldn't trade anything because I like where we are now, because my dad wouldn't be living with us right now if she didn't wreck.
但我不会交换任何东西，因为我喜欢我们现在的处境，因为如果她没有失事，我爸爸现在就不会和我们住在一起了。
And so I feel like I got to know my dad so much better.
所以我觉得我更加了解我的父亲了。
Is there any part of you that sometimes thinks, oh, maybe if they could stay this way, then maybe it would work?
你是否有时会想，哦，也许如果他们能保持这种方式，那么也许它会起作用？
So everything's really good between them right now.
所以他们之间现在一切都很好。
But I don't think that they'd be good as a married couple.
但我不认为他们会成为夫妻。
And I probably won't ever think that, because I've seen the worst of them, and I've seen the best of them.
我可能永远不会这么想，因为我见过他们中最糟糕的，也见过他们最好的。
And I still think that the worst of them has more control.
我仍然认为他们中最糟糕的人有更多的控制权。
Because what if they do go back to old habits and my dad does start to get mean again?
因为如果他们真的又恢复了旧习惯，而我爸爸又开始变得刻薄怎么办？
I feel like it'd ruin what we built while she was gone.
我觉得这会毁掉我们在她离开后所建立的一切。
A few nights a week, Sarah and Billy go for these little drives around town in his truck and just talk about what it might be like if they got back together.
每周有几个晚上，莎拉和比利会开着他的卡车在城里兜风，谈论如果他们复合会是什么样子。
They pass the church they went to when they were married and the park where they took their kids to play.
他们经过了结婚时去的教堂和带孩子玩耍的公园。
These drives are like dates for them.
这些驱动力对他们来说就像约会。
Kinda nice how things have gone.
事情进展得很好。
So it's like we get to start over, you know?
所以这就像我们要重新开始，你知道吗？
It would be better for the kids if we could learn how to be a team.
如果我们能学会如何成为一个团队，对孩子们来说会更好。
And I wasn't very good at being a team with you.
而且我不太擅长和你一起组队。
Neither was I.
我也不是。
Miki Meek Sarah's 33.
米基·米克·莎拉 33 岁。
Billy's 36.
比利36岁了
And they know everyone else thinks it would be crazy for them to get back together again.
他们知道其他人都认为他们再次复合是疯狂的。
And it is crazy-- soap opera crazy.
这很疯狂——肥皂剧很疯狂。
Sarah gets amnesia and forgets that she hated her husband so much that she divorced him.
莎拉得了失忆症，忘记了她是如此恨她的丈夫，以至于她和他离婚了。
Meanwhile, the husband her daughter begged her to divorce has taken Sarah's place in the house.
与此同时，她女儿恳求她离婚的丈夫取代了莎拉在家里的位置。
He's now the person who takes care of the children.
他现在是照顾孩子的人。
He's even someone they trust.
他甚至是他们信任的人。
Kind of feels like I was supposed to get in the wreck, because we learned a lot.
有点感觉我应该陷入困境，因为我们学到了很多东西。
Because I woke up not even remembering I was divorced.
因为我醒来时根本不记得我离婚了。
And so I had all those months in the hospital just thinking of how much I love you and how much I miss you, and--
所以我在医院的那几个月里一直在想我是多么爱你，我是多么想念你，而且——
I was trying so hard to always work on not loving you.
我一直在努力努力让自己不再爱你。
It didn't work.
它不起作用。
Couples who split up are usually facing a pile of bad memories so huge that there's no hope of digging their way out.
分手的情侣通常会面临一堆糟糕的回忆，以至于没有希望找到出路。
Trying to talk about one wrongdoing sets off this chain reaction of anger and bitterness about all the other wrongdoings.
试图谈论一件错误行为会引发对所有其他错误行为的愤怒和痛苦的连锁反应。
But Sarah's accident lets her and Billy deal with one memory at a time, as they bubble up, usually in the mornings when she first wakes up.
但莎拉的事故让她和比利每次只能处理一个记忆，这些记忆通常是在她第一次醒来的早晨。
Sometimes I just lay in bed.
有时我只是躺在床上。
And then the first person I talk to-- because I always decide when I have a memory, I've decided to bring it up to Billy every time.
然后是我谈话的第一个人——因为我总是决定什么时候我有记忆，所以我决定每次都把它告诉比利。
And then how has he been responding to those?
那么他是如何回应这些的呢？
He's been good about it, just admitting what happened and apologizing and telling me that he'll be better.
他对此表现得很好，只是承认发生了什么事并道歉，并告诉我他会更好。
And one thing I was wondering, when you guys were married, did you ever bring this up to him?
我想知道一件事，当你们结婚时，你向他提起过这件事吗？
Not when we were married.
我们结婚的时候没有。
Uh-uh.
呃呃。
He used to would have never apologized for anything that he had done.
以前他永远不会为自己所做的任何事道歉。
And the good thing about me losing my memory is that we're able to talk about everything that comes up in a better way.
我失去记忆的好处是我们能够以更好的方式谈论所有发生的事情。
It's less hurt and less powerful, you know what I mean?
它伤害更小，威力也更小，你明白我的意思吗？
Sarah's changed too.
萨拉也变了。
She says she gets irritated easier now and can throw these tantrums she never had before.
她说她现在更容易生气，并且会发脾气，这是她以前从未有过的。
She's still learning to get around without a walker and to do small things, like organize her pills for the day.
她仍在学习如何在没有助行器的情况下四处走动，以及做一些小事，比如整理当天的药物。
It's not clear when she can move out of her parents' house.
目前还不清楚她什么时候可以搬出父母的房子。
They have legal guardianship over her.
他们对她有合法的监护权。
And she goes back and forth about Billy.
她反复谈论比利。
One day she told me, I'd marry that guy tomorrow if he asked.
有一天她告诉我，如果他要求的话，我明天就会嫁给那个人。
And other times, she's less sure.
而其他时候，她则不太确定。
She knows divorcing Billy was the right decision back then.
她知道当时与比利离婚是正确的决定。
She just wants to make the right decision now.
她现在只想做出正确的决定。
Miki Meek is one of the producers of our show.
米基·米克是我们节目的制作人之一。
Coming up, what the movie The Breakfast Club can teach you about parenting if you were in The Breakfast Club .
接下来，如果您参加过《早餐俱乐部》，电影《早餐俱乐部》可以教您有关育儿的知识。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Nancy Updike, sitting in for Ira Glass who will be back next week.
我是南希·厄普代克，代替下周回来的艾拉·格拉斯。
Every week, we choose a theme-- you know that-- and we present various stories on that theme.
每周，我们都会选择一个主题——你知道的——然后我们围绕该主题呈现各种故事。
Today's show, "Is That What I Look Like?" Stories of seeing yourself through other people's eyes, whether you want to or not.
今天的节目《这就是我的样子吗？》无论你愿意与否，通过别人的眼睛看到自己的故事。
And we're here at Act Three, which I think is going to be kind of a two-parter.
我们现在处于第三幕，我认为这将是两部分。
Act Three-- Ben, do you want to do that part?
第三幕——本，你想做那个部分吗？
I'm talking to Ben Calhoun, one of the producers here.
我正在和本·卡尔霍恩交谈，他是这里的制片人之一。
And he's got a small story.
他还有一个小故事。
He's embarrassed to tell it, but I'm making him.
他不好意思说出来，但我逼着他。
So Ben.
所以本.
Yeah?
是的？
Nancy Updike Take us back.
南希·厄普代克带我们回去。
It's eight grade?
八年级了？
Eighth grade.
八年级。
And I should just say, like, I played tuba.
我应该说，比如，我吹大号。
I was small.
我还小。
That was me.
那是我。
And definitely, like, zero attention from the girls in Roosevelt Middle School.
当然，罗斯福中学的女孩们的关注度为零。
I had this teacher, though, who-- her name was Miss Savage.
不过，我有一位老师，她的名字叫萨维奇小姐。
She was the cool teacher.
她是一位很酷的老师。
I bet.
我敢打赌。
Ben Calhoun Yeah.
本·卡尔霍恩 是的。
She was younger than pretty much every teacher in the school.
她几乎比学校里所有的老师都年轻。
She was, like, into Jane's Addiction.
她就像是对简上瘾了。
And she was the rock and roll teacher, and all of the kids sort of, like, idolized her.
她是摇滚老师，所有的孩子都崇拜她。
And we are going in a G, PG direction with this, right?
我们将朝着 G、PG 方向前进，对吗？
Just checking.
只是检查。
So there was just this one day when I'm just, like, standing in the classroom.
所以有一天我就站在教室里。
And there was a crowd of girls that were standing around Miss Savage.
萨维奇小姐周围站着一群女孩。
And I have no idea what they were talking about.
我不知道他们在说什么。
And Miss Savage is saying something.
萨维奇小姐正在说些什么。
And then out of the blue, she points to me.
然后她突然指着我。
I'm standing on the other side of the room.
我站在房间的另一边。
And she says, look out for that Ben Calhoun.
她说，小心那个本·卡尔霍恩。
He's going to be a heart breaker.
他将会成为一个令人心碎的人。
It was like a crowd of faces pivoted like satellites and looked at me.
就像一群面孔像卫星一样旋转着看着我。
And I was just like, I don't totally know what happened, but it feels like maybe my life might have changed just right then.
我当时想，我完全不知道发生了什么，但感觉也许我的生活可能就在那时发生了改变。
Did it change?
改变了吗？
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
Did the girls kind of start to notice?
女孩们有没有开始注意到？
One girl in particular.
特别是一位女孩。
Nancy Updike That's all you need.
南希·厄普代克 这就是你所需要的。
Yeah.
是的。
Nancy Updike And that really can be all you need to change your life when you're a teenager-- just one person who thinks you're great.
南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike） 当你十几岁的时候，这真的可以是你改变生活所需要的一切——只需一个认为你很棒的人。
Because chances are, your own sense of yourself is way off.
因为很有可能，你对自己的认识已经很差了。
A friend of a friend-- this is a woman in her 50s-- came across an old photo of herself as a teenager.
一位朋友的朋友——一位 50 多岁的女性——偶然发现了一张自己十几岁时的旧照片。
And it'd been years since she'd seen any pictures of herself at that age.
她已经很多年没有见过自己那个年纪的照片了。
And she looked at them and thought, oh wait, I was pretty.
她看着他们，心想，哦等等，我很漂亮。
I was pretty.
我本来就很漂亮
It kind of floored her, because of course the girl in the pictures looked nothing like the way she thought of herself at the time.
这让她感到震惊，因为当然，照片中的女孩看上去与她当时对自己的看法完全不同。
She said she wished she'd known it back then.
她说她希望自己当时就知道这一点。
It would have made a difference.
这本来会有所作为。
Lots of us have had that experience, looking at old family pictures or yearbooks, seeing things we never saw at the time.
我们很多人都有过这样的经历，看着旧的家庭照片或年鉴，看到我们当时从未见过的东西。
This next story is a very specialized case of that kind of thing.
下一个故事是此类事情的一个非常特殊的案例。
It's about the actress Molly Ringwald, who of course doesn't just have photos but movies-- beautifully shot, widescreen, full-length Hollywood films of herself as a teenager.
这是关于女演员莫莉·林沃德 (Molly Ringwald) 的故事，她当然不仅有照片，还有电影——拍摄精美的宽银幕长篇好莱坞电影，讲述了她十几岁的经历。
She's the redhead, the star, in those three iconic '80s movies by John Hughes, Pretty in Pink , Sixteen Candles , and The Breakfast Club .
她是约翰·休斯 80 年代三部标志性电影《红粉佳人》、《十六支蜡烛》和《早餐俱乐部》中的红发女郎、明星。
Recently, she revisited one of those movies, not exactly by choice.
最近，她重新审视了其中一部电影，这并不完全是她的选择。
And she talked to Ira Glass.
她与艾拉·格拉斯进行了交谈。
Here's Ira.
这是艾拉。
I supposed it's not a big surprise that Molly Ringwald does not sit around watching old Molly Ringwald films.
我认为莫莉·林沃德（Molly Ringwald）不坐在那儿看莫莉·林沃德（Molly Ringwald）的老电影并不奇怪。
You know, she's seen them.
你知道，她见过他们。
She needs a big reason to go back to them.
她需要一个充分的理由才能回到他们身边。
And recently her daughter gave her a reason.
最近，她的女儿给了她一个理由。
Her daughter Mathilda is 10.
她的女儿玛蒂尔达 10 岁。
And Mathilda wanted to see The Breakfast Club .
玛蒂尔达想去看看早餐俱乐部。
Of course, 10 is a little young to see The Breakfast Club , but most of her friends had seen it.
当然，10 岁看《早餐俱乐部》有点年轻，但她的大多数朋友都看过。
So it was kind of weird that she was the only one that hadn't seen this movie.
所以她是唯一一个没有看过这部电影的人，这有点奇怪。
And she said that it was a conversation at slumber parties where that's a movie that some kids want to watch and that she had always said, please, I don't want to watch it.
她说这是在睡衣派对上的一次谈话，这是一部有些孩子想看的电影，而她总是说，拜托，我不想看它。
Can we watch something else?
我们可以看点别的吗？
Because she wanted to watch it with me-- which I thought was really nice.
因为她想和我一起看——我觉得这真的很好。
I wonder if it's like, she wants to watch it with you-- like, that's a nice thing to say to your mom.
我想知道她是否想和你一起看——就像，这对你妈妈来说是件好事。
But the truth could also be, she just doesn't want to watch it with them, do you know what I mean?
但事实也可能是，她只是不想和他们一起看，你明白我的意思吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass Can you imagine watching your mom with a group of your friends, and you have no idea what's about to happen?
Ira Glass：你能想象看着你的妈妈和一群朋友在一起，而你不知道会发生什么吗？
Yeah.
是的。
I didn't even really think about that, but yeah, I'm sure that had something to do with it.
我什至没有真正考虑过这一点，但是，是的，我确信这与它有关。
Mathilda does not like surprises.
玛蒂尔达不喜欢惊喜。
And the fact is, Molly Ringwald preferred to watch it with Mathilda.
事实上，莫莉·林沃德更喜欢和玛蒂尔达一起观看。
It just seemed like it might be a nice experience to share together.
看起来一起分享可能是一次很好的经历。
And there were things in the film that she knew that she was going to want to talk to Mathilda about-- like, for instance, there's a scene where she smokes pot in the film as a teenager.
电影中有些事情她知道她想和玛蒂尔达谈论——例如，电影中有一个场景是她十几岁的时候吸大麻的。
So Molly showed her The Breakfast Club , not sure at all how she was going to react, not sure what it would be like to see the film through Mathilda's eyes.
所以莫莉给她看了《早餐俱乐部》，完全不知道她会有什么反应，也不知道通过玛蒂尔达的眼睛看这部电影会是什么样子。
We sent her a tape recorder to record what happened.
我们给她寄了一台录音机来记录发生的事情。
Hello!
你好！
Ira Glass Which, by the way, Mathilda loved the tape recorder.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 顺便说一句，玛蒂尔达（Mathilda）喜欢录音机。
Hello!
你好！
So-- Ira Glass She loved talking into the tape recorder.
所以——艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 她喜欢对着录音机说话。
She loved answering questions, though she is not going to hear this radio story for a long time.
她喜欢回答问题，尽管她很长一段时间不会听到这个广播故事了。
That's the plan.
这就是计划。
The Breakfast Club , if you've never seen it, is five kids.
如果您从未见过，早餐俱乐部有五个孩子。
They're stuck together in school on a Saturday for all-day detention.
周六，他们被困在学校里，全天被拘留。
They're kids who never would normally talk to each other in school.
他们是在学校里通常不会互相交谈的孩子。
It's a jock, a brain, a tough kid, a popular girl, and an outsider girl.
这是一个运动员，一个大脑，一个坚强的孩子，一个受欢迎的女孩，一个局外人的女孩。
And you know, it's a John Hughes movie.
你知道，这是一部约翰·休斯的电影。
They bond talking about all these things that everybody feels in high school.
他们聊起了高中时每个人都会感受到的所有事情。
And you can totally see why it still gets to kids and why it's the John Hughes film that Molly Ringwald looks back on as her favorite.
你完全可以理解为什么它仍然受到孩子们的欢迎，以及为什么莫莉·林沃德回顾约翰·休斯的电影时最喜欢它。
So she and Mathilda, they make popcorn, they futz around with the TV, and you know, stars are just like us.
所以她和玛蒂尔达，他们制作爆米花，他们玩弄电视，你知道，明星就像我们一样。
They do not know how to operate their video systems either.
他们也不知道如何操作视频系统。
They cannot figure out how to turn it on.
他们不知道如何打开它。
And is it DVD or HDMI?
是 DVD 还是 HDMI？
I mean, it sounds really silly.
我的意思是，这听起来真的很愚蠢。
I mean, it was almost like a date, you know, where you just want everything to go OK, you know?
我的意思是，这几乎就像一次约会，你知道，你只是希望一切顺利，你知道吗？
I didn't want her to not like it.
我不想让她不喜欢。
I didn't want her to get bored.
我不想让她感到无聊。
OK, wait.
好的，等等。
Mathilda OK, OK.
玛蒂尔达 好吧，好吧。
It's fun to do it too.
这样做也很有趣。
[GASP] Mathilda Oh, you!
[喘息]玛蒂尔达哦，你！
Oh my god, it's you!
天啊，原来是你啊！
Was there any point during the film where you had second thoughts about watching it with her?
在电影拍摄过程中，有没有什么时候你对和她一起观看这部电影产生过犹豫？
The sex stuff I was a little-- I was cringing a little bit.
我对性的事情有点——我有点畏缩。
Oh, are you medically frigid, or is it psychological?
哦，你的性冷淡是医学上的还是心理上的？
I didn't mean it that way.
我不是那个意思。
You guys are putting words into my mouth.
你们把话塞到我嘴里。
You know, there's a whole part where everyone's saying, did you do it?
你知道，有一部分每个人都在说，你做到了吗？
Did you do it?
你做到了吗？
Yeah, answer it.
是啊，回答一下吧
Andrew Just answer the question, Claire.
安德鲁，请回答问题，克莱尔。
Molly Ringwald So then I'm thinking, she's going to ask me, what are they talking about?
Molly Ringwald 那么我在想，她会问我，他们在谈论什么？
But then she just didn't ask.
但后来她只是没有问。
She was not-- all of that stuff she just didn't want to know.
她不是——所有那些她只是不想知道的事情。
And so I was trying to sort of ask her what she got out of that, what she thought we were talking about, but trying to ask her in such a way where I wouldn't tell her, where I wouldn't end up talking about sex if she didn't know.
所以我试图问她从中得到了什么，她认为我们在谈论什么，但试图以一种我不会告诉她的方式问她，如果她不知道，我最终不会谈论性。
So all the talk about did she do it, did she not do it, all of that stuff, kind of--
所以所有的讨论都是关于她做了什么，她没有做了什么，所有这些事情，有点——
What?
什么？
The what part?
什么部分？
Molly Ringwald When they were like, did you do it, did you do it, Claire, just answer the question.
莫莉·林沃德（Molly Ringwald） 当他们说，你做到了吗？你做到了吗，克莱尔，只需回答问题即可。
Answer the question.
回答问题。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
I got that.
我明白了。
Wait.
等待。
Which part?
哪一部分？
They were-- what?
他们是——什么？
And my husband's sitting there looking at me-- just, stop.
我丈夫坐在那里看着我——只是，停下来。
Stop.
停止。
She doesn't get it.
她不明白。
So this is the first time that you saw the film as a parent.
这是您第一次作为父母观看这部电影。
Did you see it differently?
你有不同的看法吗？
Absolutely.
绝对地。
I really did.
我真的做到了。
I really kind of felt for the parents.
我真的很同情父母。
For people who haven't seen The Breakfast Club , a lot of it is about the kids being disappointed in the parents.
对于没有看过《早餐俱乐部》的人来说，很多都是关于孩子们对父母的失望。
Yeah.
是的。
And how alone and isolated and frustrated you feel with your parents.
以及你和父母在一起时感到多么孤独、孤立和沮丧。
And now I see the movie and I just think, oh, their poor parents.
现在我看到这部电影，我只是想，哦，他们可怜的父母。
And I think that when it was pointed out to me that the movie just talks about how all parents suck, you know, then I thought in my mind, well, actually that might be kind of good because then she can see that she doesn't have parents like that.
我想，当有人向我指出这部电影只是谈论所有父母如何糟糕时，你知道，然后我在心里想，好吧，实际上这可能有点好，因为这样她就可以看到她没有那样的父母。
And then she can, you know, appreciate us.
然后她就能，你知道，欣赏我们。
OK, so afterwards you're talking to her about the film.
好的，之后你就和她谈论这部电影。
And there's this moment that gets surprisingly emotional.
就在这一刻，人们的情绪变得异常激动。
And let me play you that.
让我给你玩这个。
Which character-- when the characters talk and you think, oh, that's what I feel like, are there any that you say, yeah, that's like what I feel like?
哪个角色——当角色说话时你会想，哦，这就是我的感觉，你有没有说，是的，这就像我的感觉？
I guess a little bit of, like-- is he, like, Brian or something?
我想有点像——他是布莱恩之类的吗？
Brian, I should say, is the straight A student whose parents pressure him to get good grades, played by Anthony Michael Hall.
我应该说，布莱恩是一个优等生，他的父母向他施加压力，要求他取得好成绩，由安东尼·迈克尔·霍尔饰演。
You kind of feel like Brian?
你感觉像布莱恩吗？
Mathilda I do kind of.
玛蒂尔达 我有点喜欢。
He's really sweet, isn't he?
他真的很可爱，不是吗？
Mathilda I know, but you kind of, like, sometimes pressure me in school.
玛蒂尔达我知道，但你有时在学校给我施加压力。
No, but barely.
不，但勉强。
Like-- Molly Ringwald Wow, really?
就像——莫莉·林沃德（Molly Ringwald） 哇，真的吗？
Wait, wait, wait.
等等，等等，等等。
Wait, no, no, no, no. No, tell me.
等等，不，不，不，不。不，告诉我。
Tell me.
告诉我。
Oh, hey!
哦，嘿！
[SOBBING].
[抽泣]。
Molly Ringwald Hey!
莫莉·林沃德 嘿！
No, it's OK.
不，没关系。
No, it isn't!
不，不是！
Molly Ringwald No, no, no. Sweetie-- it's OK!
莫莉·林沃德 不，不，不。亲爱的——没关系！
OK.
好的。
Molly Ringwald I'm just-- I'm just surprised.
莫莉·林沃德（Molly Ringwald） 我只是——我只是很惊讶。
But I told you barely!
但我勉强告诉你了！
Molly Ringwald Just barely, like a little bit.
莫莉·林沃德 就差那么一点点。
Yeah.
是的。
Molly Ringwald OK.
莫莉·林沃德 好的。
Well, you know what?
嗯，你知道吗？
That's really good for me to know.
知道这对我来说真的很好。
I had no idea.
我不知道。
Like, when did I make you feel like that?
比如说，我什么时候让你有这样的感觉了？
Well, you kept on saying, like, I wish I did better in school.
好吧，你一直说，比如，我希望我在学校表现得更好。
Oh, because I said that I wish I did better in school?
哦，因为我说我希望我在学校表现更好？
Yeah, and like you wanted me to do good.
是的，就像你希望我做好事一样。
But you don't anymore.
但你不再这样了。
Ira Glass Do you remember the thing she's talking about of you saying to her, like, oh, I wish that I had done better in school?
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：你还记得她说的你对她说的话，比如，哦，我希望我在学校表现得更好吗？
I was really surprised.
我真的很惊讶。
I was not expecting that at all.
我根本没想到会这样。
And the only thing that I can think of, really, is we have this homework battle.
事实上，我唯一能想到的就是我们有这场家庭作业之战。
And it's incredibly frustrating.
这非常令人沮丧。
It's frustrating to get her to do the work?
让她做这项工作令人沮丧吗？
Yeah, because it's really easy.
是的，因为这真的很容易。
And I'm not just saying that as an adult.
我不只是作为一个成年人这么说。
I mean, it's easy.
我的意思是，这很容易。
It's easy work for her.
这对她来说是很容易的工作。
Molly Ringwald It's easy work for her.
莫莉·林沃德（Molly Ringwald） 这对她来说很容易。
If she would just sit down, do it, it would take 15 minutes, 20 minutes.
如果她坐下来做，就需要 15 分钟、20 分钟。
But she resents the fact that she has to do it so much.
但她对自己不得不这么做感到不满。
And it became such a battle that she would sort of lie sprawled out, kind of barely write-- you couldn't even read her writing.
这变成了一场战斗，她会四肢摊开躺着，几乎不写字——你甚至无法读懂她写的字。
And I would just get so frustrated with her.
我会对她感到非常沮丧。
And I would yell at her and say, you can do better than this.
我会对她大喊大叫，说，你可以做得更好。
You're smarter than this-- you know, all the things that parents say.
你比这更聪明——你知道，父母说的所有话。
And I think it must have affected her.
我想这一定影响了她。
And then she said, well, you don't do it anymore.
然后她说，好吧，你别再这样做了。
And the reason why I don't do it anymore is because I don't do her homework with her anymore because I can't.
而我不再这样做的原因是我不再和她一起做作业了，因为我做不到。
I find it too frustrating.
我觉得太令人沮丧了。
Oh, when she said that, I thought, oh, she's just being protective of you, you know?
哦，当她这么说时，我想，哦，她只是在保护你，你知道吗？
I think she was being protective of me too.
我想她也是在保护我。
I think the thing that I noticed the most was Mathilda kind of wanting to make me feel OK.
我想我最注意到的是玛蒂尔达想让我感觉良好。
She really did not want to hurt my feelings or make me upset, and she wants to please me too.
她真的不想伤害我的感情或让我不高兴，她也想取悦我。
I can hear that when I-- yeah.
当我——是的。
Well, the fact that the next thing that happens, she instantly goes to I have better parents than they do.
好吧，事实上，接下来发生的事情，她立即就说我有比他们更好的父母。
Yeah, I know, like it's scripted.
是的，我知道，就像脚本一样。
I know.
我知道。
So is there anything else that you got out of the movie that you--
那么你从这部电影中还有什么其他的收获吗——
Um, well, I have better parents than them.
嗯，我有比他们更好的父母。
You're just saying that to make me feel better.
你这么说只是为了让我感觉好一点。
Come on!
快点！
I mean, it was bizarre how she just said the thing that I hoped she would get out of it.
我的意思是，她说出了我希望她能摆脱困境的话，这很奇怪。
She knows.
她知道。
I mean, she can intuit that.
我的意思是，她能凭直觉知道这一点。
She knew that I was hoping for that.
她知道我也希望如此。
Yeah, she was giving me a little present wrapped in a bow.
是的，她给了我一件用蝴蝶结包裹的小礼物。
But at a moment where it doesn't feel like that at all.
但此刻却完全没有那种感觉。
No. No, not at all.
不，不，一点也不。
Ira Glass The whole thing left her wondering a lot about what happened when Mathilda cried and how she handled it, and should she have let Mathilda talk for longer, and should she have asked her more questions or different questions?
艾拉·格拉斯 整件事让她很想知道玛蒂尔达哭泣时发生了什么以及她是如何处理的，她是否应该让玛蒂尔达多说一会儿，是否应该问她更多问题或不同的问题？
You know, you just can never know what things that you say to your kids are going to stay with them, just little things said in a passing moment that are going to bounce around in their heads and lead them to conclusions that you don't intend or expect in any way.
你知道，你永远不知道你对孩子说的话会留在他们心里，只是一瞬间说的小事会在他们的脑海中跳来跳去，并导致他们得出你不打算或不期望的结论。
Yeah.
是的。
I think there's always moments where you perceive things differently.
我认为总有一些时刻你会对事物有不同的看法。
I know it with my own mom and dad.
我和我自己的爸爸妈妈都知道这一点。
I mean, there are times where I'll tell a story that I've heard a million times over the years.
我的意思是，有时我会讲一个多年来听过一百万遍的故事。
And my mom will just completely switch it up.
我妈妈会完全改变它。
Or she'll see it completely differently.
或者她会有完全不同的看法。
Like, some story from your childhood?
比如，你童年的一些故事？
Like, you're telling the story about something they did?
就像，你正在讲述他们所做的事情的故事？
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass And they're just like, no, no, no.
Ira Glass：他们只是说，不，不，不。
Well, yeah.
嗯，是的。
I mean, there's one-- I come from a family where my sister was sort of designated as the great beauty in the family.
我的意思是，有一个——我来自一个家庭，我的妹妹被认为是家里的大美人。
And this was just known.
这是刚刚知道的。
I was the talented one.
我是那个有才华的人。
My brother was the smart one, and my sister was the beautiful one.
我的哥哥很聪明，我的妹妹很漂亮。
And I remember actually asking my mom at-- I must have been around Mathilda's age-- if she thought that I was pretty.
我记得我当时确实问过我妈妈——我当时的年纪应该和玛蒂尔达差不多——她是否认为我漂亮。
And she said, you're cute.
她说，你很可爱。
And--
还有——
Ooh.
哦。
Molly Ringwald Yeah.
莫莉·林沃德 是的。
And that is really not what you want to hear when you're 10 years-- I mean, now it's OK.
这确实不是你 10 岁时想听到的——我的意思是，现在没关系了。
I would be OK with cute.
可爱的话我就可以了。
But when you're 10, it was just devastating.
但当你10岁的时候，这简直是毁灭性的。
And she completely denies that now.
而她现在完全否认了这一点。
And I mean, something that would have such an impact on me-- I mean, I wasn't making it up.
我的意思是，这件事会对我产生如此大的影响——我的意思是，这不是我编造的。
It really affected me.
这确实影响了我。
She says, I always knew that you were beautiful.
她说，我一直都知道你很漂亮。
Ask your father.
问问你父亲。
And obviously if she had any idea how it would bounce around in your head, she would have never said it too.
显然，如果她知道它会如何在你的脑海中跳动，她也永远不会说出来。
She didn't think, like, oh, that's going to stick.
她不认为，哦，这会持续下去。
I have a friend.
我有一个朋友。
Her mom would tell her and her sister, no, you girls are average.
她妈妈会告诉她和她姐姐，不，你们女孩很普通。
Oh!
哦！
Ira Glass No, like, you girls are average.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 不，你们女孩很普通。
Average, you know-- like, you're smart, but you're average smart.
平均，你知道——就像，你很聪明，但你只是平均聪明。
And I was like, wow, you were not raised by Jews, man.
我当时想，哇，你不是由犹太人养大的，伙计。
That is not the message you get.
这不是您收到的消息。
I mean, in my experience, there's a lot of, like, you're so special.
我的意思是，根据我的经验，有很多，比如，你很特别。
You're the most special.
你是最特别的。
You're so special-- you know, the boys and the girls.
你们是如此特别——你知道，无论是男孩还是女孩。
You know, she's the most talented.
要知道，她是最有才华的。
Well, I was always told that I was special.
嗯，我总是被告知我很特别。
I mean, there was no question that I was special and that I was destined for greatness.
我的意思是，毫无疑问我很特别，而且我注定会变得伟大。
As a little kid?
作为一个小孩子？
Molly Ringwald As a little kid.
莫莉·林沃德小时候。
Wow.
哇。
Molly Ringwald From the time that I was really little.
莫莉·林沃德（Molly Ringwald） 从我很小的时候起。
I mean, to the point where-- this is kind of heavy, but I'll tell you.
我的意思是，这有点沉重，但我会告诉你。
Anyway, my first brother died.
无论如何，我的第一个兄弟死了。
He was the first, and I was the last, so we never met.
他是第一个，我是最后一个，所以我们从未见过面。
But my mom was understandably just devastated by this and was sort of suicidal for a while-- I mean, didn't actually try anything, but she was considering.
但可以理解的是，我妈妈对此感到震惊，有一段时间有点自杀倾向——我的意思是，实际上并没有尝试任何事情，但她正在考虑。
And then was-- this makes her sound so hippy-dippy, and she's not at all.
然后——这让她听起来很嬉皮士，但她根本不是。
But she believes that she conversed with a spirit.
但她相信她与灵魂交谈。
And what they said basically-- and this is a story that I've heard since I was very small-- that she was here for another reason, for someone else.
他们基本上说的是——这是我从小就听过的故事——她来这里是为了另一个原因，为了别人。
And as soon as I was born, she knew that it was me.
我一出生，她就知道那是我。
That's a lot to put on you.
这对你来说有很多负担。
Molly Ringwald Yeah, it's heavy.
莫莉·林沃德 是的，它很重。
It's really--
真是——
Like, she told you that when you were a little girl?
就像，当你还是个小女孩的时候，她就告诉你了？
Like, that she was put on this Earth because of you?
就像，她因为你而来到这个地球上？
Yeah.
是的。
She believed that that was why-- yeah.
她相信这就是原因——是的。
Because she knew that there was some reason why she was supposed to stick around and--
因为她知道她应该留下来是有原因的——
And stay alive.
并活下去。
And it was to have this little girl who was you, who was such a special gift to the world.
就是拥有了你这个小女孩，她是给世界的一份特别的礼物。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass So how strange that you would end up famous by the age of 15 or something?
Ira Glass 那么你在 15 岁左右就成名了，这有多奇怪？
Well, I kind of had to.
嗯，我有点不得不这么做。
I mean, I kept my mom alive.
我的意思是，我让我妈妈活了下来。
And so then when you actually did become a movie star as a teenager, did she take that as proof, like, oh, see, that was all true?
那么，当你十几岁的时候真的成为一名电影明星时，她是否以此为证据，就像，哦，看，这都是真的？
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass And did you at the time?
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）当时你也这么做吗？
Did the whole story fit together for you too?
整个故事也适合你吗？
Yeah.
是的。
I had to succeed.
我必须成功。
I had to be great.
我必须变得伟大。
I know.
我知道。
And then what do I do?
然后我该怎么办？
I turn around, and I pressure my daughter, because I think she's so great.
我转过身来，向我的女儿施压，因为我觉得她太棒了。
I know.
我知道。
Yeah.
是的。
Nancy Updike Ira J.
南希·厄普代克·艾拉·J.
Glass with Molly Ringwald.
莫莉·林沃德的玻璃。
She's still in the movies.
她还在电影里。
She's shooting one right now.
她现在正在拍摄一张。
And she's the author of a novel made of short stories called When it Happens to You .
她是一部由短篇小说组成的小说的作者，名为《当它发生在你身上》。
[MUSIC - "HOW DO YOU SEE ME" BY MATRIMONY]
[音乐 - MATRIMONY 的《你如何看待我》]
Credits Nancy Updike Our program was produced today by Jonathan Menjivar with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Sean Cole, Stephanie Foo, Chana Joffe-Walt, Sarah Koenig, Miki Meek, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Ira Glass.
鸣谢 Nancy Updike 我们今天的节目由 Jonathan Menjivar 与 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Sean Cole、Stephanie Foo、Chana Joffe-Walt、Sarah Koenig、Miki Meek、Brian Reed、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Ira Glass 共同制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Production help from Alison Davis.
艾莉森·戴维斯提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon is our production manager.
艾米丽·康登 (Emily Condon) 是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson is our administrative assistant.
埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的行政助理。
Adrianne Mathiowetz runs our website.
阿德琳娜·马修韦茨 (Adrianne Mathiowetz) 负责运营我们的网站。
Research help from Michelle Harris.
米歇尔·哈里斯的研究帮助。
Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddis.
Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddis 提供音乐帮助。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
Thanks, as always, to our programs cofounder Torey Malatia and to our boss, Mr. Ira Glass.
一如既往地感谢我们的项目联合创始人 Torey Malatia 和我们的老板 Ira Glass 先生。
While he was hosting the show this week, he spent a little time moonlighting as a Realtor.
当他本周主持节目时，他花了一点时间兼职做房地产经纪人。
He's really got to work on his pitch.
他确实需要在球场上努力。
Look at that really [BLEEP] small house over there.
看看那边那个真的[哔]的小房子。
I'm Nancy Updike.
我是南希·厄普代克。
Ira J.
艾拉·J。
Glass will be back next week with more stories of This American Life .
格拉斯将于下周回归，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - "WHO ARE YOU WHO AM I" BY SPIDA]
[音乐 - SPIDA 的《你是谁，我是谁》]
Announcer PRI, Public Radio International.
国际公共广播电台 PRI 播音员。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。