520: No Place Like Home - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #520 | March 6, 2015 520: No Place Like Home Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 520 集 | 2015 年 3 月 6 日 520：没有比家更好的地方 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass I grew up in Baltimore.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 我在巴尔的摩长大。
And I remember in the 1970s, at a very low moment, the city commissioned a slogan and a song and an ad campaign called Charm City, USA.
我记得在 20 世纪 70 年代，在一个非常低落的时刻，这座城市委托创作了一条口号、一首歌曲和一场广告活动，名为“美国魅力之城”。
And at the time, Baltimore was grimy and run down and still recovering from the riots and white flight of the 1960s.
当时，巴尔的摩肮脏破败，仍在从 20 世纪 60 年代的骚乱和白人逃亡中恢复过来。
I have never met a single person who took this slogan seriously.
我从来没有见过一个认真对待这个口号的人。
And I always thought that that's how it goes.
我一直认为事情就是这样。
Right?
正确的？
My wife has told me how pathetic Detroit's slogan, "Say Nice Things About Detroit," seemed to her even as a kid.
我的妻子告诉我，底特律的口号“说底特律的好话”在她还是个孩子的时候就显得多么可悲。
That's where she's from.
她就是从那儿来的。
This kind of forced boosterism arrives precisely when things are at their worst in a city.
这种强制的助推主义恰恰是在城市情况最糟糕的时候出现的。
So I wondered if there are actually cities where these campaigns work.
所以我想知道这些活动是否真的在某些城市开展。
And somebody told me that Calgary, Canada, was a place like that.
有人告诉我加拿大卡尔加里就是这样一个地方。
And we looked for a born-and-bred Calgarian to tell us whether or not it was true.
我们寻找土生土长的卡尔加里人来告诉我们这是否属实。
And that is how we found Ken Lima-Coelho.
这就是我们如何找到肯·利马-科埃略的。
And he said yes.
他说是的。
He said back in the '80s, they had a feel good song.
他说在八十年代，他们有一首感觉很好的歌。
At the time, he says, they only had three TV channels, and it was on two of them.
他说，当时他们只有三个电视频道，而且只有两个频道。
So I've probably heard it-- I'm not even exaggerating-- 1,000 times.
所以我可能已经听过——我一点也不夸张——1000 次。
Everybody knew it.
每个人都知道。
Everybody knew it.
每个人都知道。
And there was this kind of weird pride around the song.
这首歌充满了一种奇怪的自豪感。
And I actually remember that.
我确实记得这一点。
We used to sing this with our friends.
我们曾经和朋友一起唱过这首歌。
And my mom used to talk about this song.
我妈妈曾经谈论过这首歌。
Wait.
等待。
You would sing this song with your friends?
你会和你的朋友一起唱这首歌吗？
Oh yeah.
哦，是的。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
And somebody would start, and we would sing it, and we'd all laugh.
有人会开始，我们会唱，然后我们都会笑。
I loved it.
我喜欢它。
I loved it then.
我当时很喜欢它。
I kind of love it now.
我现在有点喜欢它了。
Just when you hear that "bling," those first little strains of the mel-- I'm right back there.
就在你听到“金光闪闪”的时候，梅尔的第一声小曲——我就回到了那里。
[MUSIC - "HELLO CALGARY"] Ira Glass Of course, there was a video, which at the time seemed very fresh and new.
[音乐-“HELLO CALGARY”] Ira Glass 当然，还有一段视频，当时看起来非常新鲜。
Kind of a prairie scene.
有点草原风光。
And there's this beautiful sunset.
还有这美丽的日落。
A guy throws a football at McMahon Stadium, which is our big football stadium.
一个人在麦克马洪体育场扔足球，这是我们的大足球场。
And the guy who's supposed to catch it gets bonked on the head.
而那个应该接住它的人却被击中了头。
It's really cheesy.
真的很俗气。
[MUSIC - "HELLO CALGARY"] Ira Glass Do you have a favorite part of this song?
[音乐 - “HELLO CALGARY”] Ira Glass 这首歌中你最喜欢的部分吗？
Oh yeah.
哦，是的。
Right here.
就在这里。
[MUSIC - "HELLO CALGARY"]
[音乐-“你好卡尔加里”]
Ha?
哈？
She's just giving her.
她只是给她。
[MUSIC - "HELLO CALGARY"]
[音乐-“你好卡尔加里”]
No. The song seemed very genuine at the time.
不，这首歌当时看起来很真诚。
Early in our interview, I asked him if he knew any of the words, and he sang me the entire song from memory perfectly.
在我们采访的初期，我问他是否知道其中的歌词，他完美地凭着记忆给我唱了整首歌。
He says now and then, one of his friends will post the song to Facebook.
他说，他的一位朋友有时会将这首歌发布到 Facebook 上。
It was a really big deal back then, he says, because before then, Calgary didn't have much pride at all.
他说，这在当时确实是一件大事，因为在那之前，卡尔加里根本没有太多自豪感。
The city wasn't doing great.
这个城市的表现并不好。
Their nearby archrival, Edmonton, which was smaller, and which he'd been raised to think of as a poorer cousin, seemed to get all the glory.
他们附近的主要竞争对手埃德蒙顿似乎获得了所有的荣耀，埃德蒙顿规模较小，他从小就被认为是一个更穷的表弟。
You have to remember, at the time, Edmonton was it.
你必须记住，当时是埃德蒙顿。
They had the Edmonton Oilers, the most famous hockey team on the planet-- Wayne Gretzky.
他们拥有地球上最著名的曲棍球队埃德蒙顿油人队——韦恩·格雷茨基。
They won four Stanley Cups.
他们赢得了四次斯坦利杯。
They had a sign, as you drove into Edmonton, that said "Edmonton, city of champions." And that drove us crazy.
当你开车进入埃德蒙顿时，他们有一个标牌，上面写着“埃德蒙顿，冠军之城”。这让我们发疯。
I mean, they did win every Stanley Cup in the era.
我的意思是，他们确实赢得了那个时代的每一届斯坦利杯。
But that drove us really nuts.
但这真的让我们抓狂。
And then here comes this song that oozes pride.
然后这首充满自豪的歌曲来了。
And it sort of captured the spirit of, hey, ya, we are the best hometown we know.
它有点抓住了这样的精神：嘿，是的，我们是我们所知道的最好的家乡。
Darn it.
该死的。
So Ken, now, I want to play you something else.
肯，现在我想给你玩点别的东西。
And I think you've never heard this.
我想你从来没有听说过这个。
[MUSIC - "HELLO MILWAUKEE"] Ken Lima-coelho [LAUGHS] Milwaukee?
[音乐 - “你好密尔沃基”] Ken Lima-coelho [笑] 密尔沃基？
This is the original song that the Calgary song is based on.
这是卡尔加里歌曲的原曲。
What do you-- really?
你真的做什么？
Ira Glass Yeah, it was Milwaukee first.
Ira Glass 是的，首先是密尔沃基。
And then we're told by the songwriter-- he can't remember if Utah was second or Calgary was second.
然后歌曲作者告诉我们——他不记得犹他州是第二名还是卡尔加里是第二名。
[MUSIC - "HELLO MILWAUKEE"] Ken Lima-coelho Whoa, whoa, whoa.
[音乐 - “你好密尔沃基”] Ken Lima-coelho 哇，哇，哇。
How can there be two best hometowns I know?
我所知道的最好的家乡怎么可能有两个呢？
That can't be right.
那是不对的。
I'm glad they didn't use the same woman, though.
不过我很高兴他们没有使用同一个女人。
That would have been really bad.
那真是太糟糕了。
[MUSIC - "HELLO PITTSBURGH"] [MUSIC - "HELLO INDIANA"]
[音乐 - “你好匹兹堡”] [音乐 - “你好印第安纳”]
[MUSIC - "HELLO TULSA"] [MUSIC - "HELLO ROCHESTER"]
[音乐 - “你好塔尔萨”] [音乐 - “你好罗切斯特”]
[MUSIC - "HELLO ATLANTA"] How many versions are there?
[音乐-“HELLO ATLANTA”] 有多少个版本？
There are over 100.
有超过100个。
[MUSIC - "HELLO KNOXVILLE"]
[音乐-“你好诺克斯维尔”]
Ken said that he was 2/3 bemused by all this and 1/3 actually sort of mad.
Ken 说他 2/3 对这一切感到困惑，1/3 实际上有点生气。
He had really thought of it as Calgary's song.
他真的以为这是卡尔加里的歌。
For me, this is like finding out that your childhood teddy bear was owned by three other people on the weekends when you weren't there.
对我来说，这就像在你不在的周末发现你童年的泰迪熊被另外三个人拥有一样。
I don't know.
我不知道。
[LAUGHS] Ken Lima-coelho You know what would really get me?
[笑] Ken Lima-coelho 你知道什么能真正吸引我吗？
There isn't a "Hello Edmonton," is there?
没有“你好埃德蒙顿”，是吗？
No, there isn't.
不，没有。
And Ken does not begrudge the song's composer his success at selling the song in all these different cities.
肯并不嫉妒这首歌的作曲家在所有这些不同的城市成功销售了这首歌。
He just felt dirty and betrayed by this song that claims that each city is unique and special, but then, by telling 100 other cities the same thing, proves that the opposite is true.
他只是觉得这首歌很肮脏，被背叛了，这首歌声称每个城市都是独一无二的，但随后，通过告诉其他 100 个城市同样的事情，证明事实恰恰相反。
When we tracked down the song's creator, a guy named Frank Gari, no relation to the architect, I was surprised when he described the customization that he said that he gave to each city's version of "Hello."
当我们找到这首歌的创作者时，一个名叫弗兰克·加里（Frank Gari）的人与建筑师没有任何关系，当他描述他所说的为每个城市版本的“Hello”所做的定制时，我感到很惊讶。
Listening to a few dozen of the songs, the only changes that I found were that he would change the name of the city.
听了几十首歌，我发现唯一的变化就是他改变了城市的名字。
And then usually, he would just change one geographic detail.
通常，他只会更改一个地理细节。
So "from the mountains close at hand" would become "from the golden countryside" or "from the bayfront shore" in places where there were no mountains.
因此，在没有山的地方，“来自近山”就会变成“来自金色乡村”或“来自海湾岸边”。
Though he described his process this way.
尽管他这样描述了他的过程。
I would fly to the city.
我会飞到城市。
I would meet with the people, study the area, location, the lay of the land, the people.
我会与人们会面，研究该地区、位置、土地状况和人民。
And that would inspire me to write the lyric, the new lyric, the new customization.
这会激励我写歌词，新的歌词，新的定制。
It was really a geography history class.
这确实是一堂地理历史课。
I learned a tremendous a lot about this country.
我对这个国家了解了很多。
Frank Gari said that actually they usually would not change the lyrics that much because the feelings in the song were so universal.
Frank Gari表示，其实他们通常不会对歌词做太大改动，因为歌曲中的感情是如此普遍。
He said feeling pride about Calgary is not so different from feeling pride about Baltimore or feeling pride about Detroit.
他说，对卡尔加里感到自豪与对巴尔的摩或底特律感到自豪没有什么不同。
You know, it's the same.
你知道，这是一样的。
It's the same.
是一样的。
It may be snowing in one area, and it might be 80 degrees in another.
一个地区可能正在下雪，而另一地区可能有 80 度的温度。
But people are people, and they're going through the same-- absolutely.
但人就是人，他们正在经历同样的事情——绝对如此。
And that's the same thing with keeping certain parts of the song.
这与保留歌曲的某些部分是一样的。
I mean, it's funny.
我的意思是，这很有趣。
I think the fact that this works, that you could have a song and have all of these local places attach, and have people really like it in all these local places, I feel like it really shows that people want to connect with a song like that.
我认为，事实上，这很有效，你可以有一首歌，将所有这些当地的地方都附加起来，并且让人们在所有这些当地的地方都非常喜欢它，我觉得这确实表明人们想要与这样的歌曲建立联系。
Well, there's no question about that.
嗯，这是毫无疑问的。
I mean, people want to attach to a positive vibe about the place where they live.
我的意思是，人们希望为自己居住的地方营造积极的氛围。
Absolutely, absolutely.
绝对，绝对。
That's what "Hello" did.
这就是“你好”所做的。
And that's what we tried to incorporate.
这就是我们试图融入的内容。
Lots of people, of course, have very strong feelings about where they live.
当然，很多人对自己居住的地方有着非常强烈的感情。
And lots of people will, of course, do all kinds of things to hold onto that feeling of place.
当然，很多人会做各种各样的事情来保持这种地方感。
And today on our program, we have three stories of people doing some very unusual things, including, for example, staging an exit from their own country, though all in pretend, as a way to stay in their country and their hometown.
今天在我们的节目中，我们讲述了三个人们做一些非常不寻常的事情的故事，其中包括，例如，假装离开自己的国家，作为留在自己的国家和家乡的一种方式。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Flight Simulation.
第一幕，飞行模拟。
For lots of small towns in Mexico, so many people leave that leaving becomes one of the defining parts of being from there, even the people that have strong ties to home and family members who stayed behind.
对于墨西哥的许多小镇来说，离开的人太多，离开成为离开那里的决定性部分之一，即使是那些与家乡和留下来的家人有密切联系的人也是如此。
James Spring went to a town like that recently in Mexico for an event organized by the people who stayed behind.
詹姆斯·斯普林最近去了墨西哥的一个类似小镇，参加由留下来的人们组织的活动。
A lot of people are going to yell at me tonight.
今晚很多人会骂我。
One of them is this guy, Mateo.
其中之一就是这个人，马特奥。
He's 19, and he's rolling past me in a pickup truck with blue and red flashing lights.
他 19 岁，开着一辆闪烁着蓝色和红色灯光的小卡车从我身边驶过。
Come out with your hands up.
出来吧，举起双手。
I want to see your hands up.
我想看到你举起手来。
[SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语]
There's a US Border Control emblem on the door of the pickup.
皮卡车的车门上有美国边境管制标志。
But it's fake.
但这是假的。
Just like Mateo's Border Patrol uniform.
就像马特奥的边境巡逻队制服一样。
We're hundreds of miles from the actual US border in a tiny Mexican village.
我们距离美国实际边境数百英里，位于一个墨西哥小村庄。
It's called El Alberto.
它叫埃尔阿尔贝托。
And it's known for a really specific kind of tourist attraction, a simulated illegal nighttime border crossing.
它以一种非常特殊的旅游景点而闻名，即模拟夜间非法过境。
They call it the Caminata Nocturna, the Night Hike.
他们称之为“Caminata Nocturna”，即“夜间徒步”。
I'm the first one here.
我是第一个来这里的。
So I'm just standing around with 40 or 50 locals, all of them dressed up in their costumes.
所以我就和 40 到 50 名当地人站在一起，他们都穿着自己的服装。
Fake border agents wearing Vietnam-era camo, blinged out drug cartel thugs, and migrants, and human smugglers.
假冒边境特工穿着越战时期的迷彩服，打扮得漂漂亮亮的贩毒集团暴徒、移民和人口走私犯。
A few years ago in the US, there were some news reports about the Caminata, and right wing blogs jumped all over it.
几年前，美国有一些关于卡米纳塔的新闻报道，右翼博客纷纷对此进行报道。
They accused the organizers here of running a training camp for illegal migrants.
他们指责这里的组织者为非法移民举办训练营。
But most of the people who go on the Caminata are middle class Mexicans and university students, people who can afford the 200 peso ticket, about $16, people who would probably never need to actually sneak into the US.
但大多数乘坐卡米纳塔的人都是墨西哥中产阶级和大学生，他们买得起 200 比索（约合 16 美元）的票价，他们可能永远不需要真正潜入美国。
For instance, tonight, we're waiting for a group of salespeople from Mexico City that's coming to do the Caminata as a [SPANISH], a corporate team building exercise.
例如，今晚，我们正在等待一群来自墨西哥城的销售人员来参加卡米纳塔（西班牙语）活动，这是一项企业团队建设活动。
The people in costume are joking around with each other.
穿着戏服的人们互相开玩笑。
And I speak Spanish, but I don't get any of the jokes, because they're not speaking Spanish.
我会说西班牙语，但我听不懂任何笑话，因为他们不会说西班牙语。
These are the Hnahnu, an ancient tribe, here since long before the Aztecs.
他们就是赫纳努人（Hnahnu），一个古老的部落，早在阿兹特克人出现之前就已经来到这里。
They run the Caminata on their land, which is a federal territory grant, almost like an Indian reservation in the United States.
他们在自己的土地上经营卡米纳塔，这是联邦领土拨款，几乎就像美国的印第安保留地一样。
The land isn't much good for farming or cattle, and there are almost no paying jobs in El Alberto.
这片土地不太适合耕种或养牛，而且埃尔阿尔贝托几乎没有带薪工作。
So at some point, the Hnahnu became experts at crossing the border into the US.
因此，在某个时候，汉努人成为了穿越边境进入美国的专家。
Pretty much everyone around me now, they've done the real crossing, many of them multiple times.
现在我周围的几乎每个人都完成了真正的跨越，其中许多人已经完成了多次。
And it's been killing the village.
它已经杀死了这个村庄。
There are only about 2,500 of the El Alberto Hnahnu left in the world.
世界上仅存约 2,500 头 El Alberto Hnahnu。
And 80% of them now live in the US in Vegas, around Arizona and Utah.
其中 80% 现在居住在美国亚利桑那州和犹他州周边的维加斯。
The Caminata Nocturna is part of the Hnahnu elders' plan to turn the villagers' expertise-- leaving-- into a money maker so that the villagers will stay.
Caminata Nocturna 是 Hnahnu 长老计划的一部分，该计划旨在将村民的专业知识（离开）转变为赚钱工具，以便村民留下来。
Hello, hello, hello.
你好，你好，你好。
James Spring A guy named Brigilio is one of the Hnahnu who's playing a migrant.
詹姆斯·斯普林（James Spring） 一个名叫布里吉里奥（Brigilio）的家伙是扮演移民的汉努人之一。
He's 33, lanky, with a wisp of a mustache.
他今年 33 岁，身材瘦长，留着一缕小胡子。
He's going to be my own personal crossing buddy tonight.
今晚他将成为我私人的穿越伙伴。
I'm wearing these clothes.
我穿着这些衣服。
Are these clothes going to work OK?
这些衣服穿起来还好吗？
Is this--
这是——
Yeah, looks good.
是的，看起来不错。
James Spring During his four border crossings through the desert into Arizona, Brigilio's been robbed at gunpoint, had a knife held to his gut.
詹姆斯·斯普林 (James Spring) 在四次穿越沙漠进入亚利桑那州期间，布里吉里奥遭到持枪抢劫，有人用刀抵住他的腹部。
He showed me the scar.
他给我看了伤疤。
Other people that he's crossed with have faced worse.
其他与他有过交集的人都面临着更糟糕的情况。
One of my friend, her hands-- como se dice?
我的一位朋友，她的手——como se 骰子？
Oh.
哦。
Was it from the cold?
是受凉了吗？
Brigilio Yeah, from the cold.
布里吉里奥 是的，因为寒冷。
One of Brigilio's cousins was in a pickup that was chased by the Border Patrol.
布里吉里奥的一个堂兄弟坐在一辆皮卡里，被边境巡逻队追赶。
The truck rolled over, and his cousin died.
卡车翻了，他的表弟死了。
Brigilio says there's no way to plan for every danger on a border crossing.
布里吉利奥表示，没有办法针对边境口岸的所有危险做好计划。
When the cartels come, we don't know what's going to happen.
当卡特尔到来时，我们不知道会发生什么。
Or when the gangsters come to us, sometimes you'll see a beautiful girl or a woman, sometimes violate these women.
或者当歹徒来找我们时，有时你会看到一个漂亮的女孩或女人，有时会侵犯这些女人。
Or sometime, undress-- como se dice?
或者什么时候，脱掉衣服——como se dice？
Undress?
脱衣服？
Mhm.
嗯。
Brigilio Undress the clothes in front of the group.
布里吉里奥在众人面前脱掉衣服。
Or touch her.
或者触摸她。
That happened to my kids, one of my kids.
这发生在我的孩子身上，我的孩子之一。
And--
还有——
She's OK.
她没事。
James Spring Brigilio told me he never wants to do the crossing again.
詹姆斯·斯普林·布里吉里奥告诉我，他再也不想穿越了。
I believe him.
我相信他。
He looks exhausted just talking about it.
光是谈论这件事他就显得很疲惫。
But he says he doesn't mind faking it for the Caminata.
但他说他不介意为卡米纳塔假装它。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] James Spring Brigilio asks me in Spanish if we're going to turn off his mic.
[说西班牙语] James Spring Brigilio 用西班牙语问我是否要关闭他的麦克风。
I tell him we're just going to leave it on.
我告诉他我们就让它继续吧。
Because the salespeople are going to arrive any minute, right?
因为销售人员随时都会到达，对吧？
He's been getting updates on a VHF radio.
他一直在通过甚高频无线电获取最新消息。
Yes, he says, they'll be here in a few minutes.
是的，他说，他们几分钟后就会到这里。
The salespeople are a few minutes away for more than two hours.
销售人员几分钟路程就到了两个多小时。
It's just past 10:30 at night when their bus arrives.
晚上10点30分刚过，他们的巴士就到了。
The sales team disembarks, men and women, about 50 of them, bearing zero apologies.
销售团队下船，大约有 50 名男性和女性，脸上没有任何歉意。
Just a sea of polo shirts embroidered with the name of a big international corporation.
只是一大片绣着一家国际大公司名字的马球衫。
Most of the Hnahnu actors have long since taken their positions out on the trail.
大多数 Hnahnu 演员早已在路上表明了自己的立场。
The lead coyote, a short wiry guy, doesn't waste any time.
带头的土狼是个身材矮小、精瘦的家伙，他不会浪费任何时间。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] James Spring Do any of you know what the Caminata Nocturna is, he asks.
[西班牙语] 詹姆斯·斯普林 (James Spring) 问道，你们有人知道 Caminata Nocturna 是什么吗？
The salespeople do not.
销售人员则不然。
They make stupid guesses.
他们做出愚蠢的猜测。
I hate them.
我讨厌他们。
The coyote is all business.
土狼就是生意。
He explains our objective.
他解释了我们的目标。
Tells us all that he and his pals will be leading us across the border this very night.
告诉我们所有人，他和他的朋友今晚将带领我们穿越边境。
But crossing the line is not the hard part.
但跨越界限并不是困难的部分。
No, that's just the first step.
不，这只是第一步。
After that, the trek will be tough, fraught with danger.
此后的旅程将是艰难的、充满危险的。
The salespeople look more like they've prepared to trek to the lobby bar of a Radisson.
销售人员看起来更像是准备长途跋涉前往丽笙酒店的大堂酒吧。
One of the saleswomen asks if we're going to have to negotiate any stairs along the way, because stairs might present a problem for her.
一位女售货员问我们是否需要通过沿途的任何楼梯，因为楼梯可能会给她带来问题。
I look to Brigilio to see if he hates these people as much as I do, but he gives me nothing.
我看着布里吉里奥，看看他是否像我一样讨厌这些人，但他什么也没给我。
The coyote tries to impress upon all of us the gravity of the situation.
土狼试图让我们所有人记住情况的严重性。
Crossing the border is only for the most desperate of souls.
跨越边境只适合最绝望的灵魂。
He asks us if we're desperate.
他问我们是否绝望。
The salespeople don't get it.
销售人员听不懂。
No?
不？
[SPEAKING SPANISH] James Spring The coyote says we can stay here all night then.
[说西班牙语] 詹姆斯·斯普林 土狼说我们可以在这里待一整夜。
It takes asking them three times, but the group finally agrees to be desperate.
问了他们三遍，大家终于同意孤注一掷。
El Chiquilin.
埃尔奇奎林。
James Spring Chiquilin, El Guero, El Tigre.
詹姆斯·斯普林·奇奎林、埃尔·盖罗、埃尔·蒂格雷。
The salespeople clap after each one, like they're being introduced to Bob in Accounting.
销售人员在每一位销售人员完成后鼓掌，就像他们被介绍给会计部门的鲍勃一样。
And then, in an instant, everything changes.
然后，在一瞬间，一切都改变了。
[SHOUTING] Brigilio Let's go, James, let's go!
[喊叫]布里吉利奥，我们走，詹姆斯，我们走！
The coyotes start yelling for us to get down low.
郊狼开始大喊让我们低下。
It's time to move.
是时候搬家了。
We all run willy-nilly, like lunatics rushing the asylum gate.
我们都随心所欲地奔跑，就像冲进疯人院大门的疯子。
Brigilio and I are pretty fast.
布里吉里奥和我的速度相当快。
We pass a dozen of the saleswomen.
我们经过了十几个女售货员。
Chiquilin, the lead coyote, signals for us to follow him behind a bluff where we all hide.
领头郊狼奇奎林向我们发出信号，要求我们跟随他躲到我们都藏身的悬崖后面。
Our coyotes know the schedule of the border patrols.
我们的土狼知道边境巡逻的时间表。
One truck passes us, flashing lights and sirens.
一辆卡车从我们身边驶过，闪烁着灯光和警报。
We all sprint to an abandoned building.
我们全都冲向一座废弃的建筑。
A coyote hisses at us to hide, and we try.
一只土狼向我们发出嘶嘶声，要求我们躲起来，我们尽力了。
But two of the fake US Border Patrol trucks are racing toward us.
但两辆假美国边境巡逻卡车正向我们冲来。
And then the agents are out of the trucks and chasing us.
然后特工们从卡车上下来追我们。
And they're on us.
他们就在我们身上。
And we're trapped.
我们被困住了。
There's only one way out.
只有一条出路。
And it's right through the middle of the Border Patrol.
它就在边境巡逻队的中间。
Our coyotes run, so we run.
我们的郊狼跑，所以我们也跑。
Five or six Border Patrol agents are grabbing the rest of the salespeople right in front of me.
五六个边境巡逻人员正在抓住我面前的其余销售人员。
One agent gets a hand on me, but I make it past him.
一名特工向我伸出了手，但我躲过了他。
There's gunfire, like I'm sure they're shooting blanks, but it's loud and it feels real.
有枪声，就像我确信他们在射击空弹一样，但声音很大，感觉很真实。
We all race away from the Border Patrol and lose them in a thicket of spiny plants.
我们都逃离了边境巡逻队，并在一片带刺的植物丛中迷失了方向。
All I can think is, what the [BLEEP]?
我所能想到的就是，[BLEEP]是什么？
The salespeople are dead silent.
销售人员一片死寂。
Brigilio and I find each other, and I follow him up a narrow, rocky trail about mid-pack in the sales team.
布里吉里奥和我找到了对方，我跟着他沿着销售团队中间一条狭窄、崎岖的小路走下去。
We walk a long way.
我们走了很长一段路。
It gives me time to recognize that the real US Border Patrol would probably not have blasted their sirens when they snuck up on us.
这让我有时间认识到，真正的美国边境巡逻队在偷偷接近我们时可能不会拉响警报。
And they probably wouldn't shoot into a crowd of migrants.
他们可能不会向一群移民开枪。
This is the Mexican telenovela version of a border crossing, a dramatic reenactment.
这是墨西哥电视剧版的边境穿越，戏剧性的重演。
This is what sells tickets.
这就是卖票的。
That said, the salespeople have fully suspended their disbelief.
话虽如此，销售人员已经完全放下了怀疑。
They look totally freaked out.
他们看起来完全吓坏了。
There's a barbed wire fence in front of us.
我们面前有一道铁丝网。
We all scamper beneath it and circle around the eroded edge of a cliff.
我们都在它下面蹦蹦跳跳，绕着被侵蚀的悬崖边缘转了一圈。
And then the coyotes start going crazy, motioning for us to get down.
然后土狼开始发疯，示意我们趴下。
Before us, there's a dying campfire and a shack, like a little log house.
在我们面前，有一团即将熄灭的篝火和一个像小木屋一样的小屋。
And then there's this.
然后就是这个。
[SHOUTING] James Spring It's an old Indian man, not like a Hnahnu Indian, like an American Indian, like in the year 1823, an old Western, with a feathered headdress and a loincloth.
[喊叫] 詹姆斯·斯普林 这是一位印第安老人，不像汉努印第安人，不像美洲印第安人，就像 1823 年那样，是一位古老的西部人，戴着羽毛头饰，缠着缠腰布。
He's carrying a rifle, an old Red Ryder looking thing.
他拿着一把步枪，一把看起来像旧红莱德的东西。
And he is not happy.
他不高兴。
He lights a torch.
他点燃了火把。
Chiquilin tries to tell him that we're just passing through, trying to get north.
奇奎林试图告诉他我们只是路过，试图向北走。
The Indian fires back with an angry bunch of words.
印度人愤怒地回击。
And then this small Indian woman comes out of the log house.
然后这个印度小女人从木屋里走了出来。
There's just a lot of arguing, and I'm not understanding a word of it.
只是有很多争论，我一个字也听不懂。
The Indian shoots the old rifle into the air.
印第安人将旧步枪射向空中。
Then two more shirtless Indians show up on the scene, like warriors.
然后另外两个赤裸上身的印第安人出现在现场，就像战士一样。
One's carrying a spear.
一个人拿着长矛。
This feels really fun to me, like John Wayne's going to come over the hill next.
这对我来说真的很有趣，就像约翰·韦恩接下来要翻过山丘一样。
The warriors grab one of our coyotes, El Tigre, I think.
我想，战士们抓住了我们的一只土狼，El Tigre。
They tie him up to a cactus.
他们把他绑在仙人掌上。
Maybe it's a post.
也许这是一个帖子。
It's dark.
天黑了。
One Indian holds a gun to his head, and the other holds a spear.
一名印第安人用枪指着自己的头，另一名印第安人则拿着长矛。
A saleswoman beside me is clearly into it.
我旁边的一位女售货员显然对此很感兴趣。
She pleads our case, saying that we are Mexicans, and we're lost, and we just want to pass north.
她为我们辩护，说我们是墨西哥人，我们迷路了，我们只想向北走。
Mexicans?
墨西哥人？
The old Indian says, like it was the magic word he'd been waiting for all along.
老印第安人说道，就像这是他一直在等待的神奇词一样。
He tells us to prove it, by singing the Mexican national anthem.
他告诉我们通过唱墨西哥国歌来证明这一点。
Before the weirdness of that can sink in, Chiquilin starts us out.
在我们领会其中的怪异之前，奇奎林先让我们开始。
And the salespeople warm to it.
销售人员对此也很热情。
The old Indian decides to let us pass, with a little more gunfire to help shoo us off.
老印第安人决定让我们过去，并用更多的枪声来帮助把我们赶走。
[GUNSHOT] James Spring And we're running again.
[枪声] James Spring 我们又开始奔跑了。
We run for a long time.
我们跑了很长时间。
Like, I don't even know why we're running now.
就像，我什至不知道我们为什么现在要跑步。
Faster, James.
快点，詹姆斯。
Faster.
快点。
James Spring I ask Brigilio if he ever went through an Indian reservation when he crossed the real border.
詹姆斯·斯普林 我问布里吉里奥，当他跨越真正的边界时，是否曾经过印第安人保留地。
Once, he said, in Arizona.
他说，有一次，在亚利桑那州。
They didn't care.
他们不在乎。
They just waved them through.
他们只是挥手示意他们过去。
When we stop running, we walk.
当我们停止跑步时，我们就会步行。
We walk for a long time.
我们走了很长时间。
The walking is the opposite of exciting.
步行与令人兴奋相反。
It is monotonous.
很单调。
It's drudgery.
这是苦差事。
The salespeople are showing wear, shuffling their feet like prisoners in leg irons.
销售人员衣衫褴褛，拖着脚，就像戴着脚镣的囚犯一样。
One of the women appears to have twisted an ankle.
其中一名女子似乎扭伤了脚踝。
She's leaning on another one of the salespeople for support.
她依靠另一位销售人员的支持。
I'm not sure that this was the kind of team building they signed up for.
我不确定这是否是他们签约的那种团队建设。
There's a mountain up ahead.
前面有一座山。
I ask Brigilio if that's our destination.
我问布里吉里奥那是不是我们的目的地。
He says yeah.
他说是的。
And I say I'm happy, because it looks close.
我说我很高兴，因为看起来很接近。
Brigilio tells me he remembers having that exact same feeling looking at mountains when he crossed the border for real.
布里吉里奥告诉我，他记得当他真正跨越边境时，看到山脉时也有同样的感觉。
You say, oh yeah.
你说，哦，是的。
It's close.
很接近了。
But it's not close.
但还差得远。
I ask him if seeing the Border Patrol brought back any memories for him.
我问他看到边境巡逻队是否勾起了他的回忆。
He says no. But the walking does.
他说不。但步行确实如此。
We climb more hills, more rocky ledges, more dusty trails, more mud.
我们攀登更多的山丘、更多的岩石壁架、更多尘土飞扬的小径、更多的泥土。
All the jostling makes my recorder switch itself on and off, and it makes me lose a pretty good chunk of important stuff.
所有的碰撞都会让我的录音机自动打开和关闭，这让我丢失了很多重要的东西。
For example, I don't capture the sounds of the five guys who stop us on the trail, tattooed gang members like from the streets, with the baggy jeans and tank tops.
例如，我没有捕捉到在路上阻止我们的五个人的声音，他们是街上纹身的帮派成员，穿着宽松的牛仔裤和背心。
When they can't find our money, they steal food from our coyote's backpack.
当他们找不到我们的钱时，他们就会从我们土狼的背包里偷食物。
I also failed to record the encounter with the 20 members of a powerful drug cartel that surrounded us.
我也未能记录下与我们周围的一个强大贩毒集团的 20 名成员的遭遇。
These guys had everything-- big gestures, really angry voices, automatic weapons that looked really real.
这些家伙拥有一切——夸张的手势、非常愤怒的声音、看起来非常真实的自动武器。
And the cartel boss wore gold chains, and he had this great aura of evil.
而贩毒集团的老大则戴着金链子，浑身散发着一股巨大的邪恶气息。
They even took one of the women from our group and shot her in the head.
他们甚至带走了我们小组中的一名妇女，并向她的头部开枪。
The salespeople were really traumatized by this one.
销售人员真的被这件事伤透了心。
She was one of the actors, and the cartel guys fake-threw her body off a cliff.
她是演员之一，贩毒集团的人假装把她的尸体扔下了悬崖。
Then after we ran some more and got ourselves clear of the murderous cartel, my recorder started working again.
然后，当我们又跑了一些并摆脱了凶残的卡特尔后，我的录音机又开始工作了。
Vamos!
瓦莫斯！
[SHOUTING] James Spring It was nearly the end of the night.
[喊叫] 詹姆斯·斯普林 (James Spring) 夜已快要结束了。
We reached a bluff that overlooks the highway.
我们到达了俯瞰高速公路的悬崖。
Our transportation, our ride, is scheduled to meet us here and deliver us to fake Phoenix.
我们的交通工具，我们的车程，计划在这里与我们会合，并将我们送到假凤凰城。
Brigilio tells me that this is a hot corridor, heavily patrolled by border agents.
布里吉利奥告诉我，这是一条炎热的走廊，边防人员巡逻频繁。
Chiquilin whispers that when the coast is clear, we'll go in groups of 10.
奇奎林低声说，当海岸畅通无阻时，我们将 10 人一组出发。
The first group of salespeople scurries down the hill and is just about to jump in the back of the truck when trouble appears.
第一组销售人员急忙下山，正要跳进卡车后座，这时麻烦出现了。
Two Border Patrol trucks box them in.
两辆边境巡逻车将他们困住。
An agent speaks through the PA, tells the other agents to search them all.
一名特工通过公共广播讲话，告诉其他特工对他们进行全部搜查。
He asks where the coyote is and if there are any more of us.
他问土狼在哪里以及我们是否还有其他人。
But nobody rats us out.
但没有人出卖我们。
They're all loaded into the Border Patrol truck and taken away.
他们都被装进边境巡逻卡车并带走。
[SIRENS] We are, all of us, in disbelief.
[警报器] 我们所有人都难以置信。
We've been walking for three hours.
我们已经走了三个小时了。
Everyone is silent.
大家都沉默了。
Brigilio signals that we're in the next group.
布里吉里奥示意我们属于下一组。
It strikes me that I really want to make it, that I don't want to be one of the ones who gets caught.
我突然意识到我真的很想成功，我不想成为被抓住的人之一。
Three white pickups appear in the distance, our ride.
远处出现了三辆白色皮卡，那是我们的车。
30 of us run down the hill.
我们30个人跑下山。
I'm waiting to hear the siren.
我等着听警笛声。
Brigilio and I jump into the bed of the third truck.
布里吉里奥和我跳进第三辆卡车的车厢。
We force ourselves as flat as we can, and then I feel the truck shift into gear, and we're driving.
我们强迫自己尽可能地放平，然后我感觉到卡车挂档，我们开始行驶。
We're going to make it.
我们会成功的。
We arrive at the safe house blindfolded.
我们蒙着眼睛到达安全屋。
That's how coyotes protect the location of a safe house.
这就是土狼保护安全屋位置的方式。
Vamos, vamos.
瓦莫斯，瓦莫斯。
James Spring Brigilio says that at a real safe house, we'd all be jammed into a room with a bunch of other migrants and forced to wait until our relatives paid off the final balance to the coyotes.
詹姆斯·斯普林·布里吉里奥说，在真正的安全屋里，我们都会和一群其他移民挤在一个房间里，被迫等待我们的亲戚向土狼付清最后的余额。
And of course, that would be after two days and nights of walking through the desert, not just three hours.
当然，那是在沙漠中徒步两天两夜之后的事，而不仅仅是三个小时。
But we're led down a path to what feels like a grassy field.
但我们被引向一条通往草地的小路。
It sounds like we're next to a river.
听起来我们就在一条河旁边。
Chiquilin tells everybody to keep their blindfolds in place.
奇奎林告诉每个人都要戴上眼罩。
And he says, tonight we gave you just a small sample of the dangers of crossing the border.
他说，今晚我们只是向您展示了跨越边境的危险的一小部分。
Maybe 5% of what the real experience is like.
也许是真实体验的 5%。
He delivers this rousing speech.
他发表了这篇激动人心的演讲。
This message is like a patriotic stay-in-school kind of thing, that Mexicans have a moral obligation to stay here in Mexico, to not cross the border and give all of their energies to another country.
这个信息就像是一种爱国的留在学校的东西，墨西哥人有道德义务留在墨西哥，不跨越边界并将所有精力奉献给另一个国家。
Give your energies to your own community, he says.
他说，把你的精力奉献给你自己的社区。
Make this country great.
让这个国家变得伟大。
He tells everybody that he's going to count to three, and then we're all going to remove our blindfolds.
他告诉大家他要数到三，然后我们都要摘掉眼罩。
Across the river in front of us is a tall bluff, maybe 200 feet high.
我们面前的河对岸是一座高高的悬崖，大约有 200 英尺高。
It's covered top to bottom with hundreds of flaming torches, maybe thousands.
它从上到下覆盖着数百个甚至数千个燃烧的火把。
The firelight dances on the surface of the river.
火光在河面上舞动。
It's surreal.
这太超现实了。
Chiquilin asks if we know what the torches represent.
奇奎林问我们是否知道火把代表什么。
One of the salespeople guesses correctly.
一位销售人员猜对了。
Yes, Chiquilin says, we do it to honor our brothers and sisters who've lost their lives crossing the border.
奇奎林说，是的，我们这样做是为了纪念那些在边境丧生的兄弟姐妹。
The salespeople, they're really moved by all of this.
销售人员，他们真的被这一切所感动。
Some look sort of misty-eyed.
有些看起来有点眼含泪水。
These stories are a big part of their national heritage, even though the reality of it's so far removed from their own lives.
这些故事是他们国家遗产的重要组成部分，尽管现实与他们自己的生活相去甚远。
Chiquilin calls all of the salespeople to huddle in a big circle and hold hands.
奇奎林召集所有销售人员围成一个大圈，手拉着手。
For the second time tonight, they sing Mexico's national anthem.
今晚他们第二次唱墨西哥国歌。
The other message from tonight is not about the future of Mexico or the dangers of a real border crossing.
今晚的另一个信息与墨西哥的未来或真正过境的危险无关。
It's just about the reality of the Caminata itself and the fact that it even has to exist, the whole elaborate thing with all of its actors and costumes and staging and props, the endless reenactment of something that none of the Hnahnu wanted to do in the first place.
这只是关于卡米纳塔本身的现实，以及它甚至必须存在的事实，整个复杂的事情，包括所有的演员、服装、舞台和道具，无休止地重演一些汉努人一开始就不想做的事情。
Chiquilin said to the tourists, we started doing the Caminata because we were becoming a village of ghosts.
奇奎林对游客们说，我们开始做卡米纳塔是因为我们正在变成一个鬼魂村。
This is all we've got.
这就是我们所拥有的一切。
We have no professions, no education, no industry.
我们没有职业，没有教育，没有产业。
This is what we have to do to survive here.
这是我们在这里生存所必须要做的。
But it's an experiment that hasn't paid off yet.
但这是一项尚未获得回报的实验。
They advertise these Caminatas, but sometimes they go for weeks without enough tourists to run one.
他们为这些卡米纳塔做广告，但有时他们会连续几周没有足够的游客来经营卡米纳塔。
And when there are enough tourists, like tonight, none of the actors gets paid by the village.
当有足够多的游客时，就像今晚一样，村里没有一个演员得到报酬。
This is not a job for anyone yet.
这还不是任何人的工作。
Things here are still desperate.
这里的情况仍然令人绝望。
People go hungry.
人们挨饿。
And the village still depends on money sent from the 80% of the Hnahnu who are living in the United States.
这个村庄仍然依赖居住在美国的 80% 的 Hnahnu 人寄来的钱。
Some of the actors from the Caminata told me that very soon they're heading north to try to cross the real border again.
卡米纳塔的一些演员告诉我，他们很快就会北上，试图再次跨越真正的边界。
James Spring in Hidalgo, Mexico.
墨西哥伊达尔戈州的詹姆斯斯普林。
In July, the Caminata Nocturna will celebrate its 10th anniversary.
七月，Caminata Nocturna 将庆祝成立 10 周年。
James has done a Spanish language version of this story for Radio Ambulante, which is a radio show and a podcast modeled after our radio show but all in Spanish.
詹姆斯为流动广播电台制作了这个故事的西班牙语版本，这是一个广播节目和一个播客，模仿我们的广播节目，但全部是西班牙语。
If your language skills are good enough, you should check him out.
如果你的语言能力足够好，你应该去看看他。
We'll link to the Spanish language version of the story on our website, or you can just google your way there.
我们将在我们的网站上链接到该故事的西班牙语版本，或者您也可以直接通过谷歌搜索到达那里。
Act Two, Phone Home.
第二幕，打电话回家。
So now we have a story about people moving the other way across the border, from the US to Mexico, yearning for homes here in the US, not there in Mexico.
所以现在我们有一个故事，讲述的是人们越过边境，从美国到墨西哥，渴望在美国而不是墨西哥有家。
We deport from the United States about 250,000 people every year to Mexico.
我们每年将大约 25 万人从美国驱逐到墨西哥。
Over 100,000 more leave on their own.
还有超过10万人自行离开。
And there's an entire industry that has grown up around the fact that there are now tons of people living in Mexico who speak perfect American English.
现在有大量居住在墨西哥的人能说一口流利的美式英语，这一事实催生了整个行业。
And that industry is call centers.
这个行业就是呼叫中心。
Over the last decade, American companies like Best Buy, Dish Network, Time Warner have been outsourcing their call center jobs to Mexico.
在过去的十年里，百思买、Dish Network、时代华纳等美国公司一直将呼叫中心工作外包给墨西哥。
And at first, these call centers just handled Spanish language calls from the United States.
起初，这些呼叫中心只处理来自美国的西班牙语电话。
But then everybody realized, oh, they've got lots of really good English speakers there.
但后来每个人都意识到，哦，他们那里有很多英语说得很好的人。
And that became a big part of what those call centers now do.
这成为了呼叫中心现在所做的一个重要组成部分。
Seth Freed Wessler has talked to dozens of people in these jobs, though.
不过，塞斯·弗里德·韦斯勒已经与数十名从事这些工作的人进行了交谈。
And he says it can be a little weird for the people who work at the call centers.
他说，对于呼叫中心的工作人员来说，这可能有点奇怪。
These are pretty good jobs except for one thing-- they make you homesick.
这些都是相当不错的工作，除了一件事——它们会让你想家。
Lots of people who work at these call centers have just moved to Mexico, and they miss the United States.
许多在这些呼叫中心工作的人刚刚搬到墨西哥，他们想念美国。
They miss their old lives.
他们怀念以前的生活。
And at work, they spend hour after hour, call after call, talking to people who still have those lives.
在工作中，他们花上一个小时又一个小时，打一个又一个电话，与那些仍然过着那种生活的人交谈。
Maru Ponce left New York for Mexico when she graduated from college with a business degree and couldn't get a job because she didn't have papers.
马鲁·庞塞 (Maru Ponce) 大学毕业并获得商业学位后，她离开纽约前往墨西哥，但由于没有证件而找不到工作。
She got hired in Mexico taking calls for AT&T.
她在墨西哥接到 AT&T 电话后被录用。
One guy who called and he's like, oh, yeah, we're going ice skating.
一个人打电话来，他说，哦，是的，我们要去滑冰。
And then we're going to dinner at Olive Garden or something.
然后我们要去橄榄园什么的吃晚饭。
And I was like, oh, I used to do that with friends.
我当时想，哦，我以前经常和朋友这样做。
So I would feel this churning.
所以我会感到这种翻腾。
And sometimes I would stop listening to what they were saying, because in my head I'd be like, this memory and that memory when I used to go out with my friends.
有时我会不再听他们在说什么，因为在我的脑海里，我会想起我以前和朋友出去时的这段记忆和那段记忆。
And they'd be like, hello, hello, are you still there?
他们会说，你好，你好，你还在吗？
When Maru would work the evening shift, over the phone she could hear customers doing the same things her family used to do back in Queens, like watching boxing matches.
当马鲁上晚班时，她可以通过电话听到顾客做着她家人在皇后区时做的事情，比如观看拳击比赛。
In the back, you hear the TV, like really loud.
在后面，你可以听到电视的声音，声音非常大。
And I just remember thinking, oh, I wonder if my dad is watching it right now.
我只记得我在想，哦，我想知道我爸爸现在是否正在看它。
Like I remember him leaning down on the couch, and he'd be like, oh, get me some soda, or get me something to eat.
就像我记得他靠在沙发上，他会说，哦，给我一些苏打水，或者给我一些吃的。
And it would be very clear in my head, seeing this family in this room that brought me back to the apartment that we used to live in in Astoria, Queens.
我的脑海里会非常清楚，看到这个房间里的这个家庭，让我回到了我们曾经住在皇后区阿斯托里亚的公寓。
You're like, oh, man, these people are calling from over there.
你就像，哦，伙计，这些人从那边打电话来。
And I just wish I could just go through this phone and be over there, you know?
我只是希望我能通过这部电话到达那里，你知道吗？
It's an overwhelming feeling of sadness.
这是一种压倒性的悲伤的感觉。
This is Luis Roldan.
这是路易斯·罗尔丹。
He grew up in Orange County, California, got into some gang-related trouble, missed a court date, and got deported.
他在加利福尼亚州奥兰治县长大，陷入了一些与帮派有关的麻烦，错过了法庭日期，并被驱逐出境。
And he says what makes these calls hard is that people call when they're out doing stuff, American stuff, running errands, driving, shopping.
他说，这些电话之所以困难，是因为人们在外出做事、美国事情、跑腿、开车、购物时打电话。
Sometimes they're waiting in line at fast food drive-throughs, ordering hamburgers or whatever.
有时他们会在快餐店排队等候，订购汉堡包或其他什么。
Like this lady.
就像这位女士。
She called about her internet working.
她打电话谈论她的互联网工作。
Oh, I'm just sitting here in the drive-through at Taco Bell.
哦，我只是坐在塔可钟的免下车餐厅里。
I'm like, oh man, are you kidding me?
我想，天哪，你在开玩笑吗？
They have no Taco Bell here.
他们这里没有塔可钟。
It's just taco right here.
这里只是炸玉米饼。
There's no Bell.
没有贝尔。
It's just taco.
这只是炸玉米饼。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
What is it about Taco Bell?
塔可钟有什么特点？
Luis Roldan I don't know.
路易斯·罗尔丹 我不知道。
American food itself.
美国食物本身。
Jack in the Box, In-N-Out, Burger King, Carl's Jr. I mean, how many times I remember going through drive-throughs, you know?
Jack in the Box、In-N-Out、汉堡王、Carl's Jr. 我的意思是，我记得有多少次经过得来速，你知道吗？
Luis isn't kidding.
路易斯不是在开玩笑。
This came up again when I went out with him and his call center friends.
当我和他以及他的呼叫中心朋友出去时，这个问题再次出现。
We were eating at the best taqueria I've ever been to in my life.
我们在我一生中去过的最好的墨西哥快餐店吃饭。
And this guy from North Carolina said, yeah, he also really misses Taco Bell.
这个来自北卡罗来纳州的家伙说，是的，他也真的很想念塔可钟。
Actually, I do.
事实上，我愿意。
I'm going to be honest, I do.
说实话，我愿意。
I don't know, it's just a different flavor.
我不知道，只是味道不同而已。
It's the States flavor.
这是美国风味。
You know you're in the States.
你知道你在美国。
Luis says sometimes it messes with his head, hanging out with people who remind him of his friends in the States.
路易斯说，与那些让他想起美国朋友的人一起出去玩，有时会让他头脑混乱。
And then speaking English all day to customers in an office that looks like a cheesy American startup.
然后在一间看起来像一家俗气的美国初创公司的办公室里整天跟客户说英语。
There's a ping-pong table outside the cafeteria.
自助餐厅外面有一张乒乓球桌。
Walls are painted neon green.
墙壁被漆成霓虹绿。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I'm taking a call, and I'm just thinking, ah, I'm going to go home.
我正在接电话，我只是想，啊，我要回家了。
And I look out the window, and the Mexican flag's right in front of me.
我向窗外望去，墨西哥国旗就在我面前。
Pwish.
愿。
Reality just melts.
现实只会融化。
And I can't believe I'm in Mexico City.
我不敢相信我在墨西哥城。
I even say, what the hell am I doing here?
我什至说，我到底在这里做什么？
I can't believe I'm in Mexico City.
我不敢相信我在墨西哥城。
Angel Perez came to Texas when he was two years old, lived in a small rural town called Graford, Texas, population 600.
安吉尔·佩雷斯两岁时来到德克萨斯州，住在德克萨斯州一个名叫格拉福德的乡村小镇，人口600人。
He spent his whole life there, graduated from high school, had a couple of kids.
他在那里度过了一生，高中毕业，有几个孩子。
But then he got into some trouble, and eight months ago, got deported.
但后来他遇到了一些麻烦，八个月前，他被驱逐出境。
Angel ended up in Mexico City, working for one of the biggest call centers, TeleTech.
安吉尔最终来到了墨西哥城，在最大的呼叫中心之一 TeleTech 工作。
Lots of people told me they're supposed to keep conversations short, to around eight minutes.
很多人告诉我他们应该保持谈话简短，大约八分钟。
But Angel keeps his calls to two, because he's saving up his minutes.
但安吉尔将他的电话保持在两次，因为他正在节省时间。
That way, he says, he can drag out calls with customers who remind him of home.
他说，这样他就可以拖延时间与那些让他想起家乡的顾客通话。
Mostly people who live in the country, like this guy named Jim from Alabama.
大多数人住在乡下，比如这个来自阿拉巴马州的名叫吉姆的人。
He kept calling me Bubba.
他一直叫我布巴。
And that's one of my words that I use too, because I was raised with them redneck boys.
这也是我常用的词之一，因为我是和这些乡巴佬男孩一起长大的。
So they use Bubba a lot, or Bub.
所以他们经常使用Bubba，或者Bub。
What did he call in for?
他打电话来做什么？
Angel Perez Well, he called in, just saying, hey, listen here, Bubba, like my bill's up.
安吉尔·佩雷斯：好吧，他打来电话，只是说，嘿，听着，布巴，好像我的账单已经结清了。
I don't even know why, and this and that.
我什至不知道为什么，还有这个和那个。
Man, I'm a country boy here.
伙计，我是这里的一个乡下男孩。
I don't know none of this technology.
我对这个技术一窍不通。
I said, I know, I feel you.
我说，我知道，我感觉到你。
I said, I'm in Mexico City right now.
我说，我现在在墨西哥城。
And I was in Texas, out in the country.
我当时在德克萨斯州，在乡下。
And he goes, oh, Bubba, man, you need to go back.
他说，哦，布巴，伙计，你需要回去。
Hurry up and come back to Texas.
快点回德克萨斯州吧。
I said, I know.
我说，我知道。
I am, I'm trying.
我是，我正在努力。
So--
所以——
Yeah, we talked I'm going to say at least 25 to 30 minutes [INAUDIBLE] on that call, just talking about hunting, fishing, out in the river swimming.
是的，我们谈过，我会在电话中说至少 25 到 30 分钟[听不清]，只是谈论狩猎、钓鱼、在河里游泳。
I used to just lay back on a roof, on a car.
我过去常常只是躺在车顶上。
And we'd just sit there and just look up there and see shooting stars, because it's so black, and everything's so clear.
我们只是坐在那里，抬头看流星，因为它是如此的黑，一切都如此清晰。
And here, you don't see nothing.
而在这里，你什么也看不到。
Well, I still haven't seen-- I don't even bother looking up at the sky at night no more.
好吧，我还是没看到——我什至不再费心在晚上抬头仰望天空。
Right now, there's a $6 billion a year industry in Mexico that does customer service calls, billing, and IT for people who don't live in Mexico.
目前，墨西哥有一个每年价值 60 亿美元的行业，为不住在墨西哥的人们提供客户服务电话、计费和 IT 服务。
At the rate it's growing, the industry will double in the next five years.
按照其增长速度，该行业将在未来五年内翻一番。
And it's benefiting from the hundreds of thousands of people who get deported from the US each year.
它受益于每年被美国驱逐出境的数十万人。
One of the companies told me that the Mexican government sometimes gives out job information at the border about call centers to deportees.
其中一家公司告诉我，墨西哥政府有时会在边境向被驱逐者提供有关呼叫中心的工作信息。
And the outsourcing companies, they're keeping track of the cities where people are settling and then opening up new facilities there.
外包公司正在跟踪人们定居的城市，然后在那里开设新设施。
When Angel arrived, he found odd jobs, like moving furniture for $15 a day, which is typical.
当安吉尔到达时，他找到了一些零工，比如搬家具，每天 15 美元，这是很常见的。
Other deportees told me about working at a car wash or a soap factory, at a restaurant or hauling fish off a boat.
其他被驱逐者告诉我他们在洗车场、肥皂厂、餐馆工作或从船上拖鱼的经历。
All those jobs pay $10 to $20 a day.
所有这些工作每天的工资为 10 至 20 美元。
Call center jobs start around $40 a day.
呼叫中心的工作起薪约为每天 40 美元。
That's a good middle class wage in Mexico.
这对于墨西哥的中产阶级来说已经是不错的工资了。
These jobs are desirable.
这些工作是令人向往的。
Mexican kids come out of college and try to get them.
墨西哥的孩子们从大学毕业后就试图得到它们。
But for the most part, these call centers are like little islands of expats in Mexico.
但在大多数情况下，这些呼叫中心就像墨西哥的外籍人士的小岛。
The agents who work there, they hang out with each other.
在那里工作的特工们互相闲逛。
They date each other.
他们互相约会。
Sometimes they even marry each other.
有时他们甚至互相结婚。
Angel's group of friends are all guys from Texas, just like him.
安吉尔的一群朋友都是来自德克萨斯州的人，就像他一样。
Only most of them aren't from the country like Angel.
只是他们大多数都不是像安吉尔那样来自乡下的。
They're from cities, Dallas and Houston.
他们来自达拉斯和休斯顿等城市。
A lot were in gangs.
很多人都加入了帮派。
Now that they hang out all the time, Angel's been trying out their shtick.
现在他们经常出去玩，安吉尔一直在尝试他们的伎俩。
Like he's thinking about becoming a rapper.
就像他正在考虑成为一名说唱歌手一样。
One Tuesday night, I go out with Angel and his friends to a bar that looks like an American diner.
一个星期二晚上，我和安吉尔以及他的朋友们一起去了一家看起来像美国小餐馆的酒吧。
They sit in a booth getting wasted off 40's.
他们坐在一个摊位上，40 多岁的时候就已经憔悴不堪了。
We put music on.
我们放上音乐。
We smoke weed.
我们抽大麻。
We drink.
我们喝酒。
We rap.
我们说唱。
(RAPPING) I'm a Texas boy that wasn't born, but I was a Mexican man that was deported from the TX--
（说唱）我是一个尚未出生的德克萨斯男孩，但我是一个被德克萨斯州驱逐出境的墨西哥男人——
They go on like this for about half an hour, getting louder.
这样持续了大约半个小时，声音越来越大。
Almost all of their lyrics are about Texas.
他们几乎所有的歌词都是关于德克萨斯州的。
Then some preppy Mexican guys at the table next to them start getting annoyed and shush them.
然后，邻桌的一些墨西哥预科生开始生气并让他们闭嘴。
--way back in the gang.
——回到帮派去了。
Preppy Mexican Guy Shh!
墨西哥预科生 嘘！
Hey, man, that be the name-- Preppy Mexican Guy Shh!
嘿，伙计，这就是名字——墨西哥预科生 嘘！
Eventually, the bartender gets fed up too, and goes to the music system.
最终，调酒师也厌倦了，转向音乐系统。
--and they free-styling about my lifestyle.
——他们对我的生活方式进行了自由设计。
Stand up, and I'm gonna shoot you, bitch--
站起来，我要开枪打死你了，贱人——
[MEXICAN MUSIC PLAYING] Seth Freed Wessler Here in Mexico, some of these call center workers still make a turkey every year for Thanksgiving.
[墨西哥音乐播放] Seth Freed Wessler 在墨西哥，一些呼叫中心工作人员仍然每年感恩节都会制作火鸡。
Remember, these are people who couldn't even get driver's licenses when they lived in the US.
请记住，这些人在美国居住时甚至无法获得驾驶执照。
Other Mexicans notice they're not from here.
其他墨西哥人注意到他们不是这里人。
They stick out.
他们脱颖而出。
They dress differently.
他们穿着不同。
They walk differently.
他们走路的方式不同。
Their arms are covered in tattoos.
他们的手臂上布满了纹身。
And they go around in big groups speaking English.
他们成群结队地走来走去，说英语。
That can make locals mad.
这会让当地人生气。
This happened to Luis the other day, when he was on the subway.
前几天路易斯在地铁上就遇到了这种情况。
His girlfriend, who's also from the States, called him on his cell.
他的女友也来自美国，用手机给他打了电话。
I answer the phone call.
我接听电话。
Hello?
你好？
And this guy notices my accent right away.
这家伙立刻注意到我的口音。
I noticed him from my periphery.
我从周围注意到了他。
He just turned around, and he starts staring at me.
他刚转过身，就开始盯着我看。
So I keep talking, oh, I'm going to be home in the next 10 minutes, whatever.
所以我一直说，哦，无论如何，我将在接下来的 10 分钟内回家。
And he told me, you're in Mexico.
他告诉我，你在墨西哥。
You need to be speaking in Spanish.
你需要用西班牙语说话。
He used the word "bocho," which is a word that they use towards Mexican-American.
他使用了“bocho”这个词，这是他们用来形容墨西哥裔美国人的词。
It's a derogatory term.
这是一个贬义词。
Locals look down at people who have come back.
当地人瞧不起回来的人。
They see them as screw-ups who got kicked out of the US and can't speak proper Spanish.
他们认为这些人是被赶出美国而且不会说正确的西班牙语的搞砸的人。
But it's complicated, because they also resent the advantages these returnees have, their English and these jobs that pay so well.
但这很复杂，因为他们也对这些海归所拥有的优势、他们的英语和这些高薪工作感到不满。
People see them as uppity.
人们认为他们傲慢。
They're too American.
他们太美国化了。
But actual Americans also give them attitude.
但真正的美国人也赋予他们态度。
They get flak all the time from callers in the States who are annoyed to find themselves talking to someone in Mexico.
他们总是受到美国来电者的严厉批评，这些来电者发现自己正在与墨西哥的某人交谈，这让他们很恼火。
The other day, in fact, I had a call.
事实上，前几天我接到一个电话。
It was a customer.
这是一位顾客。
He's like, well, you have an accent.
他说，好吧，你有口音。
And I was like, well, I'll do the best I can.
我当时想，好吧，我会尽力而为。
And he said, where am I calling to?
他说，我要打电话去哪里？
Mexico City, sir, in a very pleasant tone.
墨西哥城，先生，语气非常愉快。
He said, why, you [BLEEP] wetback.
他说，为什么，你[哔]湿背。
And I took off my earpiece.
然后我摘下了耳机。
And he hung up.
然后他挂断了电话。
I talked to over 50 call center workers, and the ones who've been here the longest said it gets easier after a while.
我与 50 多名呼叫中心工作人员进行了交谈，那些在这里工作时间最长的人表示，一段时间后事情会变得更容易。
The job becomes just what it is, short transactions over the phone with strangers.
这项工作就变成了原来的样子，通过电话与陌生人进行简短的交易。
Eventually you don't get so homesick.
终于你不再那么想家了。
Maru says that's how it worked for her.
马鲁说这对她来说就是这样。
She's been here for eight years now and no longer wishes she lived in the US.
她已经在这里八年了，不再希望住在美国。
And it's also like this thing where it's like there's this country that didn't want me.
这也就像这个国家不想要我一样。
Why do I want to go back to somebody or to something that didn't want me and accept me?
为什么我想回到那些不想要我并接受我的人或事身边？
Like if it was a relationship, it's like, why go back to my ex when there are so many better things?
就像如果这是一段关系，就像，既然有这么多更好的事情，为什么还要回到我的前任身边呢？
And there's a world out there.
外面还有一个世界。
Angel has only been living in Mexico for eight months.
安吉尔在墨西哥只生活了八个月。
And every day at the call center is still a struggle for him.
而呼叫中心的每一天对他来说仍然是一场挣扎。
I hate this job.
我讨厌这份工作。
I hate it.
我恨它。
I hate it with a passion, but it's the only thing that helps me make money here.
我非常讨厌它，但这是唯一能帮助我在这里赚钱的东西。
I mean, do you think about going back to the US?
我的意思是，你考虑回美国吗？
Yeah, I think about going back every minute.
是的，我每分钟都在想回去。
Every time I take that call, first call, I want to go back.
每次我接到那个电话，第一个电话，我都想回去。
I don't care if I have to carry a big old bag of drugs.
我不在乎我是否必须携带一大袋旧毒品。
I don't care what I have to do.
我不在乎我必须做什么。
If they gave me the opportunity to go back, I'd go back.
如果他们给我机会回去，我就会回去。
But I know I can't.
但我知道我不能。
There's this thing telling me, just don't-- don't go back.
有件事告诉我，不要——不要回去。
How long do you think you'll live in Mexico?
您认为您会在墨西哥生活多久？
Well, probably the rest of my life.
嗯，大概是我的余生了。
That's another thing that bugs me when I take calls, knowing that this is it.
当我接电话时，这是另一件事让我烦恼，因为我知道就是这样。
This is as far as you're getting is you're going to be here for the rest of your life in Mexico taking calls.
据你所知，你将在墨西哥度过余生，接听电话。
Lately, Angel's been missing a lot of work.
最近，安吉尔错过了很多工作。
But he doesn't care if he gets fired.
但他不在乎自己是否会被解雇。
He says he'll just find another job at another call center.
他说他会在另一个呼叫中心找到另一份工作。
There's more of them all the time.
他们的数量一直在增加。
Seth Freed Wessler.
塞斯·弗里德·韦斯勒。
Coming up, it's hip to be square and made of carbohydrates.
接下来，它是方形的，由碳水化合物制成，很时髦。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's program, "There's No Place Like Home," stories of people doing unusual things to create or preserve or hold onto a home for themselves.
今天的节目“没有比家更好的地方了”，讲述了人们做不寻常的事情来为自己创造、保存或保留一个家的故事。
We've arrived at Act Three of our program.
我们已经到了节目的第三幕了。
Act Three, The Hostess with the Toast-ess.
第三幕，女主人与敬酒女。
John Gravois moved with his wife and daughters a year and a half ago across the country to San Francisco.
一年半前，约翰·格拉沃斯 (John Gravois) 与妻子和女儿穿越全国搬到了旧金山。
And he has been very aware of the ways that San Francisco seems different from the rest of the country.
他非常清楚旧金山与美国其他地方的不同之处。
Recently, he noticed something new happening around the Bay Area, which turned out to be not what he thought at all.
最近，他注意到湾区发生了一些新的事情，结果发现事情根本不是他想象的那样。
Here's John.
这是约翰。
A few months ago, I was standing in line at a coffee shop on my way to work.
几个月前，我在上班途中在一家咖啡店排队。
And I couldn't stop staring at this guy behind the counter.
我无法停止盯着柜台后面的这个人。
He was cutting inch-thick slices of bread, putting them in a toaster, and spreading stuff on them.
他正在切一英寸厚的面包片，把它们放进烤面包机里，然后在上面铺上东西。
But it was the way he did it that caught my attention.
但他的做法引起了我的注意。
He had the solemn intensity of a ping-pong player who keeps his game very close to the table, knees slightly bent, wrist flicking the butter knife back and forth, his eyes suggesting a kind of flow state.
他有着乒乓球运动员的庄严强度，比赛时紧贴球台，膝盖微曲，手腕来回挥动黄油刀，眼神透露着一种流动的状态。
In front of him, laid out in a neat row, were a few long Pullman loaves, that boxy Wonder Bread shape, but recognizably handmade and freshly baked.
在他面前，整齐地排列着一些长长的普尔曼面包，那种四四方方的神奇面包形状，但可以看出是手工制作的，新鲜出炉的。
On the menu, toast stood all on its own as an option at $3 per slice.
菜单上，吐司单独作为一个选项，每片 3 美元。
So I ordered some.
所以我订购了一些。
It was good.
很好。
It tasted like toast, only better.
它尝起来像吐司，只是更好。
A couple of weeks later, I stumbled across another place with a self-described toast bar.
几周后，我偶然发现了另一个地方，有一家自称的吐司吧。
Then another.
然后是另一个。
This third place I went to was like a temple to hot, sliced bread.
我去的第三个地方就像一座热切片面包的寺庙。
It was called The Mill, a big, light-filled cafe and bakery with exposed rafters and polished concrete floors, like a rustic Apple store, with a small chalkboard listing the day's toast menu.
它被称为 The Mill，是一家光线充足的大型咖啡馆和面包店，有裸露的椽子和抛光的混凝土地板，就像一家质朴的苹果商店，有一个小黑板列出了当天的吐司菜单。
I asked the manager at one of these places what was going on.
我问其中一个地方的经理发生了什么事。
Why all the toast?
为什么全是吐司？
Tip of the hipster spear, he said.
时髦矛尖，他说。
And then I realized what this meant.
然后我意识到这意味着什么。
Toast, like the cupcake and the dill pickle before it, had been elevated to the artisanal plane.
吐司，就像之前的纸杯蛋糕和莳萝泡菜一样，已经提升到了手工水平。
I had two reactions to this.
我对此有两种反应。
First, of course, I rolled my eyes.
当然，首先我翻了个白眼。
How silly.
多么愚蠢啊。
How precious.
多么珍贵啊。
How perfectly San Francisco.
多么完美的旧金山。
Artisanal toast.
手工吐司。
And second, despite myself, I felt a little thrill of discovery.
其次，尽管我自己不情愿，但我还是对发现感到有点兴奋。
As a 35-year-old guy with a wife and two kids, I'm usually the last to find out about a trend.
作为一个有妻子和两个孩子的 35 岁男人，我通常是最后一个发现趋势的人。
But here I was, apparently standing up on the artisanal toast wave, way before it crashed into Brooklyn, Chicago, and Los Angeles, before the inevitable article in Slate telling people that they're making toast all wrong, before the even more inevitable backlash by angry bloggers.
但我显然是在手工吐司浪潮席卷布鲁克林、芝加哥和洛杉矶之前，在《Slate》不可避免地发表文章告诉人们他们做的吐司完全错误之前，在愤怒的博主们更加不可避免的强烈反对之前，我显然站在了手工吐司浪潮的前沿。
I decided to go looking for the origins of the fancy toast trend.
我决定去寻找花式吐司潮流的起源。
How does such a thing get started?
这样的事情是如何开始的呢？
What determines how far it goes?
是什么决定了它能走多远？
Maybe I thought it would help me understand the rise of all of the seemingly trivial things that start in San Francisco and then go supernova across the country.
也许我认为这会帮助我理解所有看似微不足道的事情的兴起，这些事情从旧金山开始，然后在全国范围内成为超级新星。
And just as I began searching, the backlash arrived.
正当我开始寻找的时候，强烈的反对声来了。
The local media started running articles with headlines like "$4 Toast-- Why the Tech Industry is Ruining San Francisco." And almost all of the blaming fingers pointed at The Mill.
当地媒体开始刊登标题为“4 美元吐司——为何科技行业正在摧毁旧金山”的文章。几乎所有的指责都指向了磨坊。
So I figured, bingo.
所以我想，宾果游戏。
That's Ground Zero.
那是归零地。
[TRAFFIC NOISE] John Gravois Wow.
[交通噪音] 约翰·格拉沃斯 哇。
It's really crowded.
真的很拥挤。
[DOOR OPENS] But one of the owners there, Josey Baker-- yes, he's a baker, and yes, that's his name-- told me he was not the originator of this craze.
[门打开]但是那里的一位老板，乔西·贝克——是的，他是一名面包师，是的，这就是他的名字——告诉我他不是这股热潮的发起者。
Yeah, I mean, there was one other place here in the city, and they mostly do cinnamon sugar toast.
是的，我的意思是，城里还有另外一个地方，他们主要做肉桂糖吐司。
No, Josey wasn't the Chuck Berry of fancy toast.
不，乔西不是精致吐司界的查克·贝里。
He was more like the Elvis of fancy toast, a guy who caught the trend when it was already on an upswing.
他更像是花式吐司界的猫王，是一个在潮流已经上升的时候抓住潮流的人。
The place he first saw it, four or five years ago, is out in one of San Francisco's windiest, foggiest, farthest-flung areas, the Outer Sunset.
四五年前，他第一次看到它的地方是旧金山风最大、雾最重、距离最远的地区之一——外日落区。
Other toast professionals sent me to the same cafe.
其他吐司专业人士带我去了同一家咖啡馆。
It's completely different from any of the other places serving toast.
它与其他提供吐司的地方完全不同。
For one thing, it's about 10 times smaller.
一方面，它小了大约 10 倍。
In fact, it's nothing like what I expected.
事实上，这并不像我想象的那样。
And the story behind it-- the story of the person who started this trend-- made the trend itself feel like an embarrassingly tiny thing to focus on.
而它背后的故事——发起这一趋势的人的故事——让这一趋势本身感觉像是一件令人尴尬的小事，值得关注。
So I'm going to tell you that story.
所以我要告诉你这个故事。
But first I should tell you the name of the place.
但首先我应该告诉你这个地方的名字。
It's called The Trouble Coffee and Coconut Club, otherwise known simply as Trouble.
它被称为“麻烦咖啡和椰子俱乐部”，也简称为“麻烦”。
Trouble's really popular.
麻烦真的很受欢迎。
It always seems to have a line going out the door.
门外似乎总是排着长队。
And because the shop is the size of a single car garage, it's cramped and crowded with artifacts and wall hangings, like a very personal museum.
由于这家商店只有一个车库那么大，所以里面挤满了文物和壁挂，就像一个非常私人的博物馆。
I got two toasts on the bar.
我在吧台上点了两块吐司。
John Gravois On the menu are four main items.
John Gravois 菜单上有四个主要项目。
Coffee, cinnamon toast, coconuts, and shots of grapefruit juice named after Yoko Ono.
咖啡、肉桂吐司、椰子和以小野洋子命名的葡萄柚汁。
One toast for David.
为大卫干一杯。
John Gravois The founder of Trouble is Giulietta Carrelli.
约翰·格拉沃斯 Trouble 的创始人是朱丽叶塔·卡雷利 (Giulietta Carrelli)。
And every one of those menu items has a defined significance to her, as does her never changing wardrobe.
这些菜单中的每一项对她来说都有着明确的意义，就像她永不更换的衣柜一样。
She's always in a sleeveless crop top, ripped jeans, and a head scarf.
她总是穿着无袖露脐上衣、破洞牛仔裤和头巾。
She's covered in tattoos, including her cheeks, which are tattooed with freckles and always flushed, like a biker Pippi Longstocking.
她浑身都是纹身，包括脸颊上都纹满了雀斑，而且总是泛红，就像机车骑士长袜子皮皮一样。
We're going to have to move the drum kit today.
今天我们得搬动架子鼓。
And yes, she confirms it.
是的，她证实了这一点。
She says it took a long time for the rest of San Francisco to copy her toast idea.
她说旧金山其他地方花了很长时间才模仿她的吐司想法。
Trouble is the kind of place where you might walk in and feel excluded, like I guess I'm not hipster enough for all this.
麻烦是一种你可能走进去并感到被排斥的地方，就像我猜我还不够时髦，无法承受这一切。
That's kind of the way I felt at first.
这就是我一开始的感受。
But then Giulietta told me something that made Trouble and the purpose of it snap into focus.
但后来朱丽叶塔告诉我的一些事情让麻烦及其目的突然成为焦点。
Trouble isn't just the name of Giulietta's coffee shop.
麻烦不仅仅在于朱丽叶塔咖啡店的名字。
Trouble is her word for a psychotic episode, the kind she's had since she was 16, growing up in Cleveland.
她用“麻烦”来形容精神病发作，她从 16 岁起就患有这种病，在克利夫兰长大。
Her official diagnosis is schizoaffective disorder, but she only learned that recently.
她的官方诊断是分裂情感障碍，但她最近才得知这一点。
And back when the episodes first started, in high school, she had no idea what was wrong with her.
当剧集第一次开始时，在高中，她不知道自己出了什么问题。
I started having these things where I thought people were putting LSD in my beer.
我开始吃这些东西，我以为人们在我的啤酒中添加了LSD。
I was hallucinating.
我产生了幻觉。
And so when things would get weird, I just thought that's what was happening, that people put acid or that I drank mushroom tea.
所以当事情变得奇怪时，我只是认为这就是发生的事情，人们放了酸或者我喝了蘑菇茶。
And I was hanging out with people who partied pretty hard, so I thought that's what was happening.
我和那些狂欢得很厉害的人一起出去玩，所以我想这就是发生的事情。
I would try to be in class-- let's say it's an English class or something-- but I was outside of my body watching myself be in the class.
我会尝试去上课——假设这是一堂英语课或其他课程——但我在自己的身体之外看着自己在课堂上。
And that's what happens to me a lot.
这就是我身上经常发生的事情。
And all the voices were very, very, very loud.
所有的声音都非常非常非常大。
And like if you could hear people crumbling the paper, and it was just so uncomfortable.
就像你能听到人们把纸弄碎的声音，那就太不舒服了。
This is where I was just yesterday, sitting outside, not being able to even go to Trouble.
这就是我昨天所在的地方，坐在外面，甚至无法去找麻烦。
I was in that state of mind yesterday.
昨天我就是这样的心态。
During an episode, sometimes she hears voices or gets the sense that she doesn't actually exist.
在剧集中，有时她会听到声音或感觉到自己实际上并不存在。
Also, eating is difficult.
另外，吃饭也很困难。
She can't stand the sound of her own chewing.
她无法忍受自己咀嚼的声音。
After ruling out her LSD theory, she thought maybe she was just having lots of nervous breakdowns.
在排除了迷幻药的理论后，她认为自己可能只是经常精神崩溃。
Then came the theory that she was bipolar.
然后就有了她患有躁郁症的理论。
She was even medicated for bipolar disorder.
她甚至接受了治疗双相情感障碍的药物。
Then I just thought this is me.
然后我就觉得这就是我。
And everything's my fault.
而一切都是我的错。
I just destroy relationships.
我只是破坏人际关系。
I can't hold an apartment.
我买不起公寓。
I can't hold a job.
我保不住工作了
I'm nice enough.
我已经够乖了
I try my best.
我尽力了。
This is just who I am.
这就是我。
So that's how I went about.
我就是这么做的。
She somehow managed to put herself through college, three different colleges, in different corners of the country, by booking shows for underground bands and working at record stores and coffee shops.
她通过为地下乐队预订演出以及在唱片店和咖啡馆工作，设法在全国不同的角落完成了三所不同的大学的学业。
But Giulietta's illness was a kind of time bomb that eventually leveled any structure in her life.
但朱丽叶塔的疾病就像一颗定时炸弹，最终摧毁了她生活中的一切结构。
Roommates kicked her out.
室友把她赶了出去。
Romances fell apart.
浪漫关系破裂了。
Her bosses either fired her or quietly stopped scheduling her for shifts.
她的老板要么解雇了她，要么悄悄地停止安排她轮班。
A lot of the time, she was pretty much homeless.
很多时候，她几乎无家可归。
She slept in her car, on lots of couches.
她睡在车里的很多沙发上。
For a little while, she slept in a tree.
她在树上睡了一会儿。
By the time she hit 30, she had lived in nine different cities.
当她 30 岁的时候，她已经在九个不同的城市生活过。
She first came here, to the Bay Area, as a student at Berkeley.
她第一次来到旧金山湾区时，还是伯克利大学的一名学生。
And she remembers this one episode, a long, delusional walk through San Francisco, during which she called the police to let them know a tree had fallen on top of her, which it hadn't.
她还记得这一集，在旧金山的一次漫长而妄想的步行，在此期间她打电话给警察，让他们知道一棵树倒在了她身上，但事实并非如此。
And finally Giulietta found herself at China Beach, in the northwest part of town.
最后，朱丽叶塔发现自己来到了城镇西北部的中国海滩。
On the sun deck was an elderly man sitting on a towel, wearing a Speedo, sunbathing on a cloudy day that suggested anything but.
阳光甲板上，一位老人坐在毛巾上，穿着 Speedo 泳衣，在阴天享受日光浴，这一切都暗示着这一点。
This would be the beginning of the beginning for Giulietta and for Trouble Coffee-- the moment she met Glen.
从朱丽埃塔遇见格伦的那一刻起，这就是朱丽叶塔和麻烦咖啡的开始。
Little, little man.
小个子，小个子。
Really petite.
确实娇小。
White hair.
白头发。
His socks always matched his sweater, no matter what.
无论如何，他的袜子总是与他的毛衣相配。
I was always amazed by that.
我一直对此感到惊讶。
But he was mostly in a Speedo, tanning.
但他大部分时间都穿着泳衣晒黑。
No tanning lotion, like no SPF for Glen.
没有晒黑乳液，就像格伦没有防晒霜一样。
Glen, whose real name is Gunther Neustadt, was a Holocaust survivor who escaped Germany as a boy.
格伦的真名是冈瑟·诺伊施塔特 (Gunther Neustadt)，是一名大屠杀幸存者，小时候逃离德国。
Anybody who went to China Beach regularly back then will tell you he was a fixture there.
那时任何经常去中国海滩的人都会告诉你他是那里的常客。
But more than Glen that first day, Giulietta was struck by a pair of Russian men, climbing out of the ocean after a swim.
但第一天，朱丽叶塔比格伦更震惊的是两名游泳后从海里爬出来的俄罗斯男子。
I should mention here that almost year round, the water at China Beach is cold enough to make you hypothermic after a few minutes.
我应该在这里提一下，几乎全年，中国海滩的水都很冷，几分钟后就会让你体温降低。
These strong men, just coming out of the ocean.
这些强者，刚刚从大海里出来。
And I was so weak.
而我又是如此的虚弱。
I was the walking dead.
我是行尸走肉。
I wanted to be that strong.
我想变得那么坚强。
And they came up onto that sun deck, and they were so alive.
他们来到阳光甲板上，充满活力。
So I started asking Glen about these men.
所以我开始向格伦询问这些人的情况。
And he told me that people swam there regularly, all these people.
他告诉我，人们经常去那里游泳，所有这些人。
And I was like, this is what I want to do.
我当时想，这就是我想做的。
But anyways, I didn't last in San Francisco.
但无论如何，我没能在旧金山呆下去。
I went on to all my little stints.
我继续我所有的小工作。
First to South Carolina, then Georgia, where she hit upon the first in a series of coping mechanisms that she still uses-- coconuts.
首先是南卡罗来纳州，然后是佐治亚州，在那里她偶然发现了她仍在使用的一系列应对机制中的第一个——椰子。
For some reason, coconuts are the one food that doesn't feel like poison when Giulietta is in an episode.
出于某种原因，当朱丽叶塔在剧集中时，椰子是一种不会让人感觉有毒的食物。
And the chewing sound isn't as bad.
而且咀嚼声也没有那么糟糕。
And not to sound like an infomercial for coconuts, they're really nutritious.
这听起来不像是椰子的电视广告，它们确实很有营养。
Giulietta says you can survive on them, provided you have a source of Vitamin C, hence the grapefruit juice on Trouble's menu.
Giulietta 说，只要你有维生素 C 来源，你就可以靠它们生存，因此 Trouble 的菜单上就有葡萄柚汁。
Another great thing about coconuts, people talk to you when you're holding one.
椰子的另一大好处是，当你拿着椰子时，人们会跟你说话。
Giulietta has studies to prove it, studies she performed herself, standing on a sidewalk, noting down how many strangers engage with her when she's holding a sandwich versus when she was holding a coconut.
朱丽埃塔进行了研究来证明这一点，她自己进行了研究，站在人行道上，记下当她拿着三明治时和拿着椰子时有多少陌生人与她接触。
It wasn't even close.
甚至还差得很远。
All of a sudden, I found something that would keep me alive.
突然间，我找到了能让我活下去的东西。
It didn't bother me chewing.
它并没有打扰我咀嚼。
I felt great.
我感觉很棒。
And people talked to me.
人们跟我说话。
I was like, this is working.
我当时想，这行得通。
Still, she was barely sleeping and self-medicating a lot with pills, mostly Vicodin and whiskey.
尽管如此，她仍然几乎没有睡觉，并且经常服用药物进行自我治疗，主要是维柯丁和威士忌。
She was away from San Francisco for four or five years.
她离开旧金山四五年了。
Then one day, I was at a party, and I thought about that old man and those old Russian men at China Beach.
然后有一天，我在一个聚会上，我想起了中国海滩上的那个老人和那些俄罗斯老男人。
And the next day, because my roommate was pretty much done with me, I rented a car and went straight to China Beach.
第二天，因为我的室友对我已经差不多了，所以我租了一辆车，直奔中国海滩。
And then when you got there?
然后你什么时候到达那里？
Giulietta Carrelli Glen was there.
朱丽叶塔·卡雷利·格伦也在场。
And he told me that it took me a long time to come back.
他告诉我，我花了很长时间才回来。
He was like, where have you been?
他说，你去哪儿了？
So actually, this is Glen's corner.
事实上，这是格伦的角落。
Giulietta took me to China Beach, to the spot on the sun deck where she started hanging out with Glen after she came back.
朱丽叶塔带我去了中国海滩，到了她回来后开始和格伦一起出去玩的阳光甲板上的地方。
Talking with him every day, the routine of it, was the next thing she found that really helped her.
她发现，每天与他交谈，这是例行公事，这对她真正有帮助。
At the end of every visit, he'd say the same thing.
每次访问结束时，他都会说同样的话。
See you tomorrow.
明天见。
Soon she started joining the other swimmers at China Beach.
很快，她开始与中国海滩的其他游泳运动员一起游泳。
She swims every day now at about the same time.
她现在每天大约在同一时间游泳。
When she's having an episode, the cold water can shock her out of hallucinating.
当她出现幻觉时，冷水可以使她摆脱幻觉。
Giulietta got the idea for Trouble in 2005.
Giulietta 在 2005 年萌生了制作 Trouble 的想法。
But it wasn't so much an idea as a whirlwind of coconuts and strangers meeting each other and cinnamon toast, all swirling around in her mind.
但这与其说是一个想法，不如说是椰子、陌生人相遇和肉桂吐司的旋风，所有这些都在她的脑海中盘旋。
She was working in a coffee shop at the time, always button-holing customers and coworkers about her plans.
当时她在一家咖啡店工作，总是向顾客和同事询问她的计划。
She did the same with Glen, who brought the idea down to earth, telling her point blank to open a checking account, go to City Hall, and ask them about starting a small business.
她对格伦也做了同样的事情，格伦把这个想法付诸实践，直截了当地告诉她开一个支票账户，去市政厅，询问他们关于创办一家小企业的事情。
And her boss at the coffee shop found her sleeping there once or twice, and rather than say you're fired, he said, I think it's time for you to open your own place.
她在咖啡店的老板发现她在那里睡觉一两次，他并没有说你被解雇了，而是说，我认为你是时候开自己的店了。
Then he told me, he was like, just get some cups, brew some coffee.
然后他告诉我，他就像，拿一些杯子，煮一些咖啡。
When you run out of cups, close the door and go get more cups.
当你的杯子用完时，关上门，去拿更多的杯子。
[LAUGHS] Guilietta Carrelli And that was my business advice.
[笑] Guilietta Carrelli 这是我的商业建议。
With barely any money, she landed a five-year lease in the Outer Sunset, in a former doggy day spa that seemed to have been a front for some kind of crystal meth operation.
她几乎没有钱，就在外日落区获得了一份为期五年的租约，这里以前是一个狗狗日间水疗中心，似乎是某种冰毒业务的幌子。
So here was a shop that sells coconuts and toast in a crummy part of town that nobody went to, run by a person with a significant mental illness.
这里有一家卖椰子和吐司的商店，位于镇上一个没人去的破旧地方，由一个患有严重精神疾病的人经营。
But I never, ever, ever thought that it was going to fail.
但我从来没有想过它会失败。
Everything that works for me, I put in one little spot.
所有对我有用的东西，我都放在一个小地方。
And I thought, well, if it works for me, it'll work for other people.
我想，好吧，如果它对我有用，那么对其他人也有用。
She put coconuts on the menu because of the times she'd relied on them for easy sustenance.
她将椰子列入菜单，因为她曾经依靠椰子来获得简单的生计。
And because they did help her strike up conversations.
因为他们确实帮助她展开对话。
What about toast?
吐司呢？
Giulietta Carrelli My mom used to make me toast.
朱丽叶塔·卡雷利（Giulietta Carrelli） 我妈妈常常给我烤面包。
And so when I was first opening up Trouble, I wanted to feel safe.
所以当我第一次打开麻烦时，我想要感到安全。
Toast was that for me.
吐司对我来说就是这样。
And I also knew it was going to be that for a lot of people.
我也知道对于很多人来说这都会是这样。
Nobody can be mad at toast.
没有人会对吐司生气。
I mean, it's toast.
我的意思是，这是吐司。
It's cinnamon toast.
这是肉桂吐司。
Everybody's stoked.
大家都激动了
In 2012, so just two years ago, Giulietta finally got the definitive diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder and medication that genuinely helps keep the episodes at bay.
2012 年，也就是两年前，朱丽叶塔终于得到了分裂情感障碍的明确诊断，并接受了真正有助于控制发作的药物治疗。
She stopped drinking and taking drugs a long time ago.
她很久以前就戒酒戒毒了。
But the major way she's managed to cope with her episodes when they happen is by creating a network of people and turning herself into a local institution, which is what she's been doing, bit by bit, ever since she came back to San Francisco from New York.
但当事情发生时，她应对事件的主要方法是建立一个人际网络，并将自己变成一个当地机构，自从她从纽约回到旧金山以来，这就是她一直在一点一点做的事情。
At first, it was just the people she saw in her daily bike route to and from China Beach.
起初，这只是她每天在往返中国海滩的自行车路线上看到的人。
And I would talk to the city workers who were building things.
我会和正在建造东西的城市工人交谈。
So just in case I wasn't doing well, they would remember me.
所以万一我表现不好，他们就会记住我。
They saw me every day.
他们每天都见到我。
And sometimes I would ask them if they could help me get somewhere.
有时我会问他们是否可以帮助我到达某个地方。
Huh.
呵呵。
What do you say?
你怎么说？
Giulietta Carrelli I tell them that I can't see very well right now.
Giulietta Carrelli 我告诉他们我现在视力不太好。
My mind is racing.
我的思绪飞速运转。
I'm supposed to make it to work.
我应该让它发挥作用。
I'm late.
我来晚了。
Can you help me?
你能帮助我吗？
I've knocked on people's doors.
我已经敲过人们的门了。
Excuse me.
打扰一下。
I don't know where I'm going.
我不知道我要去哪里。
Can you help me?
你能帮助我吗？
This is why she wears the same outfit every day-- the crop tops and the head scarves.
这就是为什么她每天都穿同样的衣服——短上衣和头巾。
It's why she's covered herself with tattoos-- so people will recognize her.
这就是为什么她全身都是纹身——这样人们就能认出她。
And it's why she takes the same routes, day in and day out, around San Francisco-- so she can be recognized.
这就是为什么她日复一日地在旧金山周围走同样的路线——这样才能被认出来。
When people interact with her, say hello on the street or call her name, it can do the same thing that cold water does when she swims-- knock her back into herself.
当人们与她互动时，在街上打招呼或叫她的名字时，它会起到与她游泳时冷水相同的作用——将她撞回原处。
It can mean the difference between her getting home or wandering lost around the city.
这可能意味着她是回家还是在城市里迷路。
And it's one of the reasons why she created Trouble.
这也是她制造麻烦的原因之一。
There's just so many people connected through this network of Trouble Coffee.
有这么多人通过 Trouble Coffee 网络联系在一起。
I may just be a little tiny place, but it's pretty well-known, because I need to be well-known.
我可能只是一个很小的地方，但它相当出名，因为我需要出名。
I mean, I was just walking to my house before you guys got here.
我的意思是，在你们到达之前我正步行到我家。
And it was this man with his son, and he goes, hey, you're Trouble, right?
是这个人和他的儿子在一起，他说，嘿，你是麻烦，对吧？
And I just went, I sure am.
我刚刚去了，我当然去了。
Fancy toast isn't what Trouble's about.
美味的吐司不是麻烦的目的。
It's just the weird chunk of the spaceship that broke off and landed in the rest of the world's front lawn.
这只是宇宙飞船的一块奇怪的碎片，它断裂并降落在世界其他地方的前草坪上。
But in a way, it makes perfect sense that the trend started with Giulietta.
但从某种程度上来说，这种趋势始于 Giulietta 是完全有道理的。
Most of us dedicate the bulk of our attention to a handful of relationships-- with a significant other, children, parents, a few close friends.
我们大多数人都将大部分注意力集中在少数关系上——与重要的他人、孩子、父母、一些亲密的朋友。
Social scientists call these strong ties.
社会科学家称这些为强关系。
But for Giulietta, those kinds of strong ties have a way of buckling under the weight of her illness.
但对朱丽叶塔来说，这种牢固的联系在她疾病的重压下会崩溃。
So she's adapted by forming as many relationships, as many weak ties, as she possibly can.
因此，她通过建立尽可能多的关系、尽可能多的弱联系来适应。
And webs of weak ties are how ideas spread, ideas like, in this case, toast.
弱关系网是思想传播的方式，在这种情况下，思想就像吐司一样。
John Gravois.
约翰·格拉沃斯.
He wrote a version of this story, a great version, for Pacific Standard Magazine , where he's an editor.
他为太平洋标准杂志写了这个故事的一个版本，一个很棒的版本，他是该杂志的编辑。
By the way, you can't really live on coconuts and grapefruit juice.
顺便说一句，你不能真正靠椰子和柚子汁生活。
Not for long.
不会太久。
Don't try it.
不要尝试。
Well, the program was produced today by Ben Calhoun, with Alex Blumberg, Sean Cole, Stephanie Foo, Sarah Koenig, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天，该节目由本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun) 制作，与亚历克斯·布伦伯格 (Alex Blumberg)、肖恩·科尔 (Sean Cole)、斯蒂芬妮·符 (Stephanie Foo)、莎拉·柯尼格 (Sarah Koenig)、米基·米克 (Miki Meek)、乔纳森·门吉瓦 (Jonathan Menjivar)、布莱恩·里德 (Brian Reed)、罗宾·塞米恩 (Robyn Semien)、艾丽莎·希普 (Alissa Shipp) 和南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 一起制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Production help from Allison Davis.
艾莉森·戴维斯提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our production manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson's our administrative assistant.
埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的行政助理。
Adrianne Mathiowetz runs our website.
阿德琳娜·马修韦茨 (Adrianne Mathiowetz) 负责运营我们的网站。
Research help today from Michelle Harris and Julie Beer.
米歇尔·哈里斯 (Michelle Harris) 和朱莉·比尔 (Julie Beer) 今天为研究提供了帮助。
Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddis.
Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddis 提供音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
[致谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
Thanks as always to our program's co-founder, Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia。
You know, why does he always look so great?
你知道为什么他总是看起来那么棒吗？
Well, it's because he spends his workdays outside with his computer, no matter what the weather is.
嗯，这是因为无论天气如何，他都在外面用电脑度过工作日。
Mostly in a Speedo, tanning, no tanning lotion.
大部分穿着 Speedo，晒黑，不使用晒黑乳液。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。