512: House Rules - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #512 | November 22, 2013 512: House Rules Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 512 集 | 2013 年 11 月 22 日 512：《房屋守则》 注意：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass A few years back, when Jada's mom took her and her sister out of the Akron, Ohio, public schools and put them into the Copley-Fairlawn public schools, Jada was just in third grade.
序言 Ira Glass 几年前，当贾达的妈妈将她和她的妹妹从俄亥俄州阿克伦公立学校转入科普利-费尔劳恩公立学校时，贾达才上三年级。
But she noticed a difference immediately.
但她立即注意到了不同之处。
This is Jada.
这是贾达。
It was weird at first.
一开始很奇怪。
The teachers are more serious.
老师们都比较认真。
They really-- they buckled down.
他们真的——他们屈服了。
I just know that it was more educational.
我只知道这更有教育意义。
Akron, where she'd been going to school before, is a city of around 200,000, and its school system recently met only five of the state's 24 educational goals.
她以前上过学的阿克伦是一座人口约 20 万的城市，其学校系统最近仅实现了该州 24 项教育目标中的 5 项。
Copley-Fairlawn is just next door to Akron, has population a tenth of Akron's, and met all 24 of the goals.
科普利-费尔劳恩 (Copley-Fairlawn) 毗邻阿克伦 (Akron)，人口仅为阿克伦 (Akron) 的十分之一，并且实现了全部 24 个目标。
Even the school building, Jada says, was totally different.
贾达说，就连校舍也完全不同。
It was huge.
它是巨大的。
The library was so big and had many books, and they had a greenhouse, and they had, like, a small trail in the back if you wanted to go for a walk during recess.
图书馆很大，有很多书，还有一个温室，如果你想在课间休息时去散步，图书馆后面有一条小路。
It was amazing.
太棒了。
They had a computer lab.
他们有一个计算机实验室。
It was amazing.
太棒了。
It was so much more resources that they had there.
他们在那里拥有更多的资源。
And so we did a lot of activities outside in the greenhouse for science.
所以我们在温室外面做了很多科学活动。
It wasn't as environmental and outside, it was more of, like, in a book.
它不像环境和外部那样，它更像是在一本书中。
So they would just say, OK, we're going to go over this chapter, and you're going to learn this.
所以他们只会说，好吧，我们将回顾这一章，你将学到这一点。
In Akron's science class, she says, instead of a greenhouse, each kid got a pumpkin seed and a bag.
她说，在阿克伦的科学课上，每个孩子没有温室，而是一粒南瓜籽和一个袋子。
And they put the pumpkin seed in a plastic bag, and it grew over a few months, and so we had plastic bags in shoe boxes.
他们把南瓜籽放在塑料袋里，它生长了几个月，所以我们把塑料袋放在鞋盒里。
After two years in this nice school, third and fourth grade, Jada was kicked out.
在这所好学校读了两年三年级和四年级后，贾达被开除了。
Her sister was kicked out.
她的妹妹被赶出了家门。
To go to Copley-Fairlawn, they'd been giving their grandfather's address as their home address.
为了去科普利-费尔劳恩，他们一直把祖父的地址作为他们的家庭住址。
Their grandfather lived in the school district.
他们的祖父住在学区。
Lots of districts, of course, have been cracking down on that kind of thing.
当然，许多地区一直在打击此类行为。
Homeowners pay high property taxes to live in a place with good schools, and lots of them feel like it's wrong for anybody to freeload.
房主缴纳高额财产税才能住在有好学校的地方，而且很多人都觉得任何人都不应该贪图便宜。
So the district told Jada and her sister they had to go.
所以学区告诉贾达和她的妹妹他们必须离开。
Out of Copley-Fairlawn, and back to the Akron schools.
离开科普利费尔劳恩，回到阿克伦学校。
I was a little devastated, because, like, you know, friends I made, and-- basically, like, everything about the school.
我有点沮丧，因为，就像，你知道，我结识的朋友，以及——基本上，就像，关于学校的一切。
I loved the school.
我喜欢这所学校。
It was, it was-- they didn't bully me there at all.
是的，是的——他们根本没有在那里欺负我。
The kids there were so nice and-- and then when I went to Akron Public, I was bullied because of the way I spoke, how was the grammar and different things.
那里的孩子们都很好，然后当我去阿克伦公立学校时，我因为说话的方式、语法和不同的事情而被欺负。
And so you go back, and it's fifth grade, and it's the first day of fifth grade.
所以你回去，现在是五年级，这是五年级的第一天。
Like, what do you remember from that day back, your first day back?
比如，你回来的第一天还记得什么？
I remember really just how the kids were different.
我真的记得孩子们有多么不同。
And they didn't really listen to the teachers as much, and I know that it was hard to get through a lesson, because the kids were always, you know, being disruptive.
他们并没有真正听老师讲课，我知道很难听完一堂课，因为孩子们总是，你知道，破坏性的。
And after a while being there, I knew that I wasn't really going to learn as much as I could.
在那里呆了一段时间后，我知道我并没有真正学到尽可能多的东西。
Does it seem unfair to you that your life could be so different and your school would be so different just based on where you live and what school you go to?
仅根据您居住的地方和就读的学校，您的生活就会如此不同，您的学校也会如此不同，这对您来说是否不公平？
Yeah, I think that's just the dumbest thing ever.
是的，我认为这是有史以来最愚蠢的事情。
Like I just think it's-- like, how come I can't get the same education where I live than people who live three miles away from me?
就像我只是想——就像，为什么我不能在我居住的地方获得与住在离我三英里远的人相同的教育？
I don't understand, like, I just don't.
我不明白，就像，我就是不明白。
I don't think it's fair that I can't learn as high quality as they can just because I'm in a different district.
我认为仅仅因为我在不同的地区，我就不能像他们一样学习高质量的东西，这是不公平的。
Of course, asking about the fairness of this is asking about something that is just built into our education system.
当然，询问这是否公平就是询问我们教育系统中内置的东西。
It's the premise, right?
这是前提吧？
Something that nobody's planning on changing, usually not on the table at all.
没有人计划改变的事情，通常根本不会摆在桌面上。
In America, local property taxes fund our schools.
在美国，当地的财产税为我们的学校提供资金。
So if you live in a rich area, you get better schools.
因此，如果你住在富裕地区，你就会得到更好的学校。
And the gaps can be huge, right?
而且差距可能很大，对吧？
In New York State, for instance, the richest school districts, the top 10%, spend $25,000 per student, which is twice as much as the bottom 10% spends per student.
例如，在纽约州，最富有的学区，即收入最高的 10% 学区，为每个学生花费 25,000 美元，是收入最低的 10% 学区每个学生的两倍。
And yes, there's federal money targeted to poor students, and yes, there are a tiny handful of states that have aggressively tried to shift the balance so poor kids get more because poor kids' needs are greater, but by and large, if you're living in a poor neighborhood, chances are your schools will get less money and not be as good.
是的，联邦资金专门针对贫困学生，是的，有极少数州积极尝试改变平衡，让贫困孩子得到更多，因为贫困孩子的需求更大，但总的来说，如果你住在贫困社区，你的学校很可能会得到更少的钱，而且质量也不会那么好。
Neighborhood isn't destiny all the time for everybody, but for a lot of people, it comes pretty close.
邻里关系并不总是每个人的命运，但对很多人来说，它已经非常接近了。
Today on our radio show, things did not have to end up this way.
今天在我们的广播节目中，事情本来不必以这种方式结束。
In fact, there was a moment in our history, not that long ago, where it seemed like it wouldn't end up this way.
事实上，在我们历史上的某个时刻，就在不久之前，似乎事情不会以这种方式结束。
A look at how we got to this point.
看看我们是如何走到这一步的。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass, stay with us.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，和我们在一起吧。
Act One, Rental Gymnastics.
第一幕，租赁体操。
Let's go to Nancy Updike, who has our story.
让我们去找南希·厄普代克，她有我们的故事。
L.B.
磅。
is a tall, thin man, somewhere north of 45 years old.
是一个又高又瘦的男人，大约45岁左右。
He's soft-spoken, but he can be relentless when he's looking for an apartment.
他说话轻声细语，但在找公寓时却会毫不留情。
He went to one building, found the super in the hall.
他走到一栋大楼前，在大厅里找到了超级。
Yes, I'm looking for a one-bedroom apartment for me and my wife.
是的，我正在为我和我的妻子寻找一间卧室的公寓。
One-bedroom apartment?
一卧室公寓？
L.b.
磅。
Yes, uh-huh.
是的，嗯嗯。
Oh, I don't have.
哦，我没有。
L.b.
磅。
Like, you don't have at all?
比如说，你根本就没有吗？
No. L.b.
没有。L.b。
He told me that nothing was available.
他告诉我没有什么可用的。
That's what the super told him.
这是超级告诉他的。
But L.B.
但 L.B.
knew that with apartment hunting, sometimes no just means you haven't asked the right question yet.
我知道，在寻找公寓时，有时“不”仅仅意味着您还没有提出正确的问题。
Is there, like, a waiting list or something that you know-- Can I put my name on a waiting list?
是否有等待名单或您知道的东西 - 我可以将我的名字列入等待名单吗？
No. L.b.
没有。L.b。
There's nothing at all?
根本就什么都没有吗？
My wife really likes this building.
我的妻子非常喜欢这座建筑。
I kept going back to the fact that my-- how much my wife likes this building, that we really want to live-- that she wants to live here, and that my wife has the final word.
我不断地回顾这样一个事实：我的——我的妻子多么喜欢这座建筑，我们真的很想住——她想住在这里，而我的妻子有最终决定权。
I always say that a lot.
我总是这么说很多次。
Yeah, I throw it out, yeah.
是的，我把它扔掉了，是的。
You're absolutely sure there is nothing available, because she's going to be mad at me when I get back.
你绝对确定没有什么可用的，因为当我回来时她会生我的气。
Listen, do you not have any one-bedrooms?
听着，你们没有一间卧室吗？
That's the sound of a man coming to terms with his fate.
这是一个人向自己的命运妥协的声音。
But, just one last question.
但是，只有最后一个问题。
Can you tell me, like, how much are the apartments going for, how much-- do you know?
你能告诉我，比如，公寓要多少钱，多少钱——你知道吗？
$1,250.
1,250 美元。
L.b.
磅。
$1,250?
1,250 美元？
You know, well, we can afford that.
你知道，我们负担得起。
L.B.
磅。
had to let it go.
不得不放手。
Except there was an apartment available, according to a later lawsuit.
根据后来的诉讼，除了有一套公寓可用之外。
L.B.
磅。
had been sent to the building not by his wife, but by a housing organization, as a test.
作为测试，不是由他的妻子而是由一个住房组织送到大楼的。
L.B.
磅。
is black, and the organization had also sent a white tester, Neal.
是黑人，组织还派出了一名白人测试员尼尔。
Same income as L.B., also married, a little younger.
收入与L.B.相同，也已婚，但年轻一点。
He showed up at the same building, talked to the same super.
他出现在同一栋大楼，与同一位超级代表交谈。
Hello, good morning, thanks for letting me in.
你好，早上好，谢谢你让我进来。
I'm interested in a one-bedroom for my wife and I.
我对我和妻子的一间卧室感兴趣。
Do you have anything you can show me?
你有什么可以给我看的吗？
The super let him in, and they went up to apartment 4F.
管理员让他进去，他们上了四楼公寓。
Looks good, looks really good.
看起来不错，看起来确实不错。
Oh, this is a nice size room, huh?
哦，这个房间大小不错，是吧？
Very good.
非常好。
When Neal asked how much the rent was, the super said $1,150.
当尼尔问租金是多少时，管理员说 1,150 美元。
Neal wrote it down.
尼尔把它写下来。
That was $100 a month less than what the super had quoted L.B.
这比 L.B. 主管的报价每月少了 100 美元。
The housing organization did another test at the same building, later, with women.
随后，住房组织在同一栋大楼内对女性进行了另一项测试。
An African-American woman named Kaaron went to the building.
一位名叫卡伦的非裔美国妇女来到了大楼。
I buzzed the super's apartment, and he answered, and I said, I'm looking for a one-bedroom apartment.
我按响了管理员的公寓，他接了电话，我说，我正在寻找一间卧室的公寓。
Do you have anything available?
你有什么可用的吗？
Come in.
进来吧。
Kaaron He buzzed me in.
卡伦 他按响了我的电话。
He let this person he could not see into his building, I went upstairs to his apartment.
他让这个他看不见的人进入他的大楼，我上楼到他的公寓。
He opened the door.
他打开门。
Hi.
你好。
Kaaron Hi.
卡伦嗨。
I was wondering if you had any one-bedrooms or studio apartments available.
我想知道你们是否有可用的一卧室或单间公寓。
No, no, I don't have.
不，不，我没有。
Kaaron You don't have anything?
卡隆 你什么都没有吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Nancy Updike When a white woman around the same age showed up, there were two studios available.
南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike）当一位年龄相仿的白人女性出现时，有两间工作室可供使用。
These recordings are from a lawsuit brought by an organization called the Fair Housing Justice Center.
这些录音来自一个名为“公平住房司法中心”的组织提起的诉讼。
The tests were done in 2010 and 2011 in New York City.
测试于 2010 年和 2011 年在纽约市进行。
Housing discrimination based on race is a lot less pervasive than it used to be, but it still happens, to a degree that surprised me when I started looking into it.
基于种族的住房歧视比以前少了很多，但它仍然发生，其程度让我在开始调查时感到惊讶。
It's gotten sneakier, so harder to detect, and it's not like it makes the news most of the time, so it's easy to believe it's not happening at all.
它变得更加鬼祟，更难被发现，而且大多数时候它都不会成为新闻，所以很容易相信它根本没有发生。
The testers, like most Americans, had zero special interest in housing when they started the work.
测试人员和大多数美国人一样，在开始工作时对住房的兴趣为零。
This is Laurel.
这是劳雷尔。
She describes her test persona as a generic youngish white woman.
她将自己的测试角色描述为一个普通的年轻白人女性。
I mean, I was learning about the laws at the same time that I was being trained to test, and I would say part of me thought, oh, are these laws even still necessary?
我的意思是，我在接受测试培训的同时学习了这些法律，我会说我的一部分想法是，哦，这些法律仍然有必要吗？
So when you started, you thought, we're sort of mopping up here.
所以当你开始的时候，你会想，我们是在打扫这里。
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
Like, maybe, I don't know how long this work will last, and yeah, we'll do some systemic testing throughout the city and just get the numbers that the higher-ups need.
就像，也许，我不知道这项工作会持续多久，是的，我们将在整个城市进行一些系统测试，然后得到高层需要的数据。
This was more census type work or something.
这更像是人口普查类型的工作什么的。
How is this possible?
这怎么可能？
Why is this necessary?
为什么这是必要的？
You know, we don't live in the boonies.
你知道，我们不住在郊区。
This is Kaaron again.
这又是卡伦。
She was one of the testers at the same building L.B.
她是 L.B. 同一栋大楼的测试人员之一。
went to.
去了。
She said she gets a lot of questions from friends in New York about the testing.
她说她从纽约的朋友那里收到了很多关于测试的问题。
She grew up in New Orleans.
她在新奥尔良长大。
People always think of the South as this, you know, horrible place, where people are always being discriminated against, and that all the black people who have come up to the North are escaping something.
人们总是认为南方是一个可怕的地方，那里的人们总是受到歧视，所有来到北方的黑人都在逃避某种东西。
You've been freed.
你已经被释放了。
There's like a new Underground Railroad for some reason.
由于某种原因，就像一条新的地下铁路。
But it is New York City, and there's a lot of people here, and a lot of people have a lot of different views.
但这是纽约市，这里有很多人，很多人有很多不同的观点。
And I think it's easy to forget that.
我认为人们很容易忘记这一点。
And some of those views are not necessarily--
其中一些观点并不一定——
Legal to put into action.
合法地付诸行动。
Kaaron Yeah, that's a nice way to put it.
Kaaron：是的，这是一个很好的表达方式。
Kaaron's got this unsinkable vibe.
卡伦有一种永不沉没的氛围。
She's actually an actor.
她其实是一名演员。
The testing is only an occasional job to make some extra money.
测试只是偶尔的工作，可以赚点外快。
All the testers at the Fair Housing Justice Center are actors, which led me to ask them a bunch of Acting 101 questions like, do you spend a lot of time developing your character and back story before going out on a test?
公平住房正义中心的所有测试人员都是演员，这让我问了他们一堆“表演 101”问题，比如，在参加测试之前，你是否花了很多时间来发展你的角色和背景故事？
Do you think about your motivation?
你想过你的动机吗？
They all politely said it was a lot more straightforward than that.
他们都礼貌地说，这比那要简单得多。
Show up at a place, ask what's available, just like you would if you were really looking for a home.
出现在一个地方，询问有什么可用的，就像你真的在寻找一个家一样。
Kaaron explained that she and the other testers are never told before they go out to a building if there's been a complaint or if it's just a random test.
卡伦解释说，她和其他测试人员在前往建筑物之前从未被告知是否有投诉或是否只是随机测试。
That's the way the Fair Housing Justice Center trained her and trains all its testers.
这就是公平住房司法中心培训她和所有测试人员的方式。
Everyone goes out blind.
每个人都盲目地出去。
No making assumptions.
不做任何假设。
You're not there to trap anybody.
你不是来诱捕任何人的。
So Kaaron went to a building in Queens one day, August, 2009, blind as usual.
于是，2009 年 8 月的一天，卡伦像往常一样双目失明，来到了皇后区的一栋大楼。
I'm like, you know, nice business casual, as if you were on a lunch.
我就像，你知道，漂亮的商务休闲装，就像你正在吃午餐一样。
And I am small and perky, and I automatically assume that we're all going to get along very well.
我个子小，性格开朗，我自然而然地认为我们都会相处得很好。
She asked around the building for the super, then ran into him in the elevator.
她在大楼里到处打听，然后在电梯里遇到了他。
Yeah, I'm [INAUDIBLE] I'm looking for the super.
是的，我[听不清]我正在寻找超级。
How are you?
你好吗？
Kaaron I'm good.
卡伦我很好。
A gentleman has sent me up here.
一位绅士派我来这里。
I'm looking for a one-bedroom--
我正在寻找一间卧室——
The conversation is hard to hear over the noise of the elevator, but the super told Kaaron it was too bad, but the department had already been rented to a guy who'd been waiting for it for a long time.
由于电梯的噪音，谈话内容很难听清，但主管告诉卡伦，这太糟糕了，但该部门已经租给了一个已经等了很长时间的人。
He sounded apologetic.
他听起来很抱歉。
It was a pleasant little chat.
这是一次愉快的闲聊。
Kaaron thought nothing about it afterward.
卡隆事后并没有多想。
Several months later, she heard from the Fair Housing Justice Center.
几个月后，她收到了公平住房司法中心的来信。
I get a call, and they're, like, there's been an issue with a case that you've you done.
我接到一个电话，他们说，你已经完成的一个案例出现了问题。
And really, when they called me, I thought it was a completely different case.
事实上，当他们打电话给我时，我认为这是一个完全不同的情况。
I didn't realize at all.
我根本没有意识到。
Oh.
哦。
You had someone in mind?
你心中有某人吗？
You thought, oh, it's this one?
你想，哦，是这个吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Nancy Updike And it wasn't that one.
南希·厄普代克：但不是那个人。
Not him at all.
根本不是他。
Nancy Updike They told her the case was about the building where she'd talked to the super in the elevator, and Kaaron started replaying their conversation in her head.
南希·厄普代克：他们告诉她，案件是关于她在电梯里与管理员交谈的那栋大楼，卡伦开始在脑海中重播他们的谈话。
It wasn't that she couldn't believe someone might have discriminated against her in enlightened New York City, but she thought of herself as very good at reading people, how they were responding to her, and she had detected nothing.
并不是说她不敢相信在开明的纽约市有人会歧视她，而是她认为自己非常善于解读人们，了解他们对她的反应，而她什么也没发现。
I was surprised, and I was a little-- I was like, oh, but he was so nice to me.
我很惊讶，我有点——我想，哦，但他对我很好。
Not-- you know, he was cordial.
不——你知道，他很热情。
He wasn't throwing me a party, but he was cordial, and he wasn't rushing me out, it didn't feel like it.
他并没有为我举办派对，但他很热情，也没有赶我出去，我并不觉得这样。
I was completely taken off guard.
我完全措手不及。
When he told me nothing was available, I took him by face value.
当他告诉我没有可用的东西时，我就相信了他的表面价值。
And I also still didn't understand exactly-- I didn't know all the other details.
而且我仍然不太明白——我不知道所有其他细节。
I hadn't been told about what had happened to the white testers.
我没有被告知白人测试者发生了什么事。
So I was still kind of like, well, maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought.
所以我还是有点想，好吧，也许事情没有我想象的那么糟糕。
This is the recording made by Laurel, the tester who calls herself a generic youngish white woman.
这是测试员劳雷尔（Laurel）录制的录音，她自称是一位普通的年轻白人女性。
She'd gone to the building the same day as Kaaron, and there was an apartment for rent.
她和卡伦同一天去了大楼，那里有一套公寓出租。
It would be available in about six weeks.
大约六周后即可上市。
The super had to do some work on it to get it ready, but he was eager to get the deal settled as soon as possible, so they went to look at the apartment right then.
管理员还需要做一些准备工作，但他急于尽快完成交易，所以他们当时就去看了公寓。
This is great.
这太棒了。
I guess I'll bring my husband back with me and--
我想我会把我丈夫带回来，然后——
You can make it sometime tonight or tomorrow, because I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow night.
你可以今晚或明天某个时间来，因为我明天晚上就要去度假。
Oh, OK.
哦，好吧。
So any time tomorrow that's better?
那么明天什么时候比较好？
You can come until 5:00, 5:00 in the afternoon.
下午5:00之前都可以来。
This is Kaaron again.
这又是卡伦。
Kaaron It's jarring.
卡伦 这太刺耳了。
It's very jarring.
这非常刺耳。
It was just really confusing, because while I'm listening, I'm like, well, what could I have done that would have changed?
这真的很令人困惑，因为当我在听的时候，我想，好吧，我可以做些什么来改变呢？
Even though-- even now, like, knowing, I'm like, oh, maybe I should have done something differently.
即使 - 即使现在，就像，知道，我想，哦，也许我应该做一些不同的事情。
Is that what you were thinking when you were listening?
你听的时候心里也是这么想的吗？
Yes.
是的。
Did she push in a different way that I didn't push?
她的推动方式是否与我没有推动的方式不同？
Like, to see the apartment, and I was like no, she didn't actually push that hard.
就像，去看公寓，我说不，她实际上并没有那么努力。
So I don't really-- it's hard for my brain to realize that there was nothing that I could do.
所以我真的——我的大脑很难意识到我无能为力。
And for a while I had a feeling of like, well, does that mean I'm misjudging other people in my life?
有一段时间我有一种感觉，好吧，这是否意味着我错误地判断了生活中的其他人？
What does-- you know, are there other people who don't want to be near me because I'm black?
你知道吗，还有其他人因为我是黑人而不想靠近我吗？
What does that mean?
这意味着什么？
Am I just completely misjudging the people around me?
我是否完全错误地判断了周围的人？
The lawsuit that Kaaron's recording was part of went on for almost two years, and the whole time it ate away at Kaaron.
卡伦的录音所涉及的诉讼持续了近两年，在整个过程中，卡伦一直在苦苦挣扎。
Though they don't stop you from testing in the time that you're part of a case, I wasn't testing.
尽管它们不会阻止您在参与案件期间进行测试，但我没有进行测试。
And I think probably for the best, because I was going through a lot of doubt about-- and looking at people in a way that I'd never done before.
我认为这可能是最好的结果，因为我经历了很多怀疑——并以一种我以前从未做过的方式看待人们。
And I questioned a lot of my judgment, my thought process, and even interactions with friends, you know, people that I've known for years.
我对自己的判断力、思维过程，甚至与朋友的互动提出了质疑，你知道，我认识多年的人。
Like what, you know, how do you really think of me?
比如，你知道吗，你到底对我有什么看法？
What do you really think?
你到底怎么想？
And it took some time before I was-- I settled myself down.
我花了一些时间才让自己平静下来。
It's clearly not everyone.
显然不是所有人。
Not everyone is like this, and you just need to get on with your life.
不是每个人都这样，你只需要继续你的生活。
So it was a rough, rough time.
所以那是一段艰难、艰难的时光。
This is the era we've been in for a while now.
这是我们已经经历了一段时间的时代。
If you're discriminated against in getting housing, there's a decent chance you don't know it happened.
如果您在获得住房方面受到歧视，您很有可能不知道发生了这种情况。
Maybe you don't even suspect it.
也许你根本不怀疑。
The whole idea seems like a throwback, that a person's charm, tenacity, and income could count less than their race today when they try to rent or buy a home.
整个想法似乎是一种倒退，即当一个人试图租房或买房时，他的魅力、坚韧和收入可能不如他们的种族重要。
And where you live can really matter.
你住在哪里真的很重要。
Every measure of well-being and opportunity, the foundation is where you live.
每一项衡量福祉和机会的标准都是您居住的地方。
This is Nikole Hannah-Jones.
我是尼科尔·汉娜·琼斯。
She's a reporter for ProPublica, and she's written a lot about housing and the way it can affect every part of a person's life, the quality of schools, and hospitals, also--
她是 ProPublica 的记者，写了很多关于住房及其如何影响一个人生活的方方面面、学校和医院质量的文章，还有——
Cancer rates, asthma rates, infant mortality, unemployment, education, access to fresh food, access to parks, whether or not the city repairs the roads in your neighborhood.
癌症发病率、哮喘发病率、婴儿死亡率、失业、教育、获得新鲜食物的机会、进入公园的机会，无论城市是否修复您附近的道路。
Besides that, there's also this.
除此之外，还有这个。
Black and white Americans still live substantially apart in this country.
美国黑人和白人在这个国家的生活仍然存在很大差异。
It's especially true in cities like Chicago and New York that have large African-American populations.
在芝加哥和纽约等拥有大量非洲裔美国人的城市尤其如此。
Overall, the United States is vastly less segregated than it was 45 years ago.
总体而言，与 45 年前相比，美国的种族隔离程度大大减轻了。
We're a different country.
我们是不同的国家。
There are almost no all white neighborhoods anymore.
几乎不再有全是白人的社区了。
But there are plenty that are almost all black.
但也有很多几乎都是黑色的。
In hundreds of metropolitan areas, the average white person lives in a neighborhood that's 75% white, and their neighbors who aren't white aren't likely to be African American.
在数百个大都市地区，白人平均居住在白人比例为 75% 的社区，而他们的非白人邻居不太可能是非裔美国人。
That's according to a study by sociologists at Brown and Florida State universities, based on the 2010 census.
这是布朗大学和佛罗里达州立大学的社会学家根据 2010 年人口普查进行的一项研究得出的结论。
The most segregated parts of the country are, and have been for decades, the Northeast and the Midwest.
数十年来，该国种族隔离最严重的地区一直是东北部和中西部。
Milwaukee is consistently one of the most segregated cities in the country.
密尔沃基一直是美国种族隔离最严重的城市之一。
In Milwaukee and in other cities, including New York, the level of black-white segregation by one important measure has declined only by a trickle in 30 years.
在密尔沃基和包括纽约在内的其他城市，按照一项重要指标衡量，黑人与白人之间的隔离程度在 30 年来仅略有下降。
I've got a map on the wall in my office of Brooklyn that shows a giant red cluster right in the middle, where African Americans make up over 80% of the population, even though they're only 25% of the city overall, and even though on the street, New York feels like a very integrated city.
我在布鲁克林办公室的墙上挂着一张地图，地图的中间有一个巨大的红色集群，非洲裔美国人占人口的 80% 以上，尽管他们只占整个城市的 25%，尽管在街上，纽约感觉像是一个非常一体化的城市。
This is Nikole Hannah-Jones again.
我又是尼科尔·汉娜·琼斯。
She lives in New York.
她住在纽约。
I think a good way to visualize it in the city is when you ride the subway or the bus.
我认为在城市中想象它的一个好方法是当你乘坐地铁或公共汽车时。
When you get on at certain parts, the bus is very integrated.
当你在某些地方上车时，公交车是非常一体化的。
And then as you go to certain neighborhoods, all the white people get off, and then it's only black people left on the bus.
然后当你去某些社区时，所有白人都下车，然后公交车上就只剩下黑人了。
How much of the current level of segregation in New York and other cities is due to discrimination, compared to other factors like poverty, that's being studied and debated.
与贫困等其他因素相比，目前纽约和其他城市的种族隔离程度有多少是由于歧视造成的，这一点正在被研究和争论。
I'll get to that later in the show.
我稍后会在节目中谈到这一点。
But what's clear is that as the country has become less segregated overall, there are still large stubborn pockets of racial and economic segregation in major US cities.
但显而易见的是，随着美国总体上种族隔离程度有所减轻，美国主要城市仍然存在大量顽固的种族和经济隔离现象。
And that's true nearly half a century after we passed a critical piece of civil rights legislation, the Fair Housing Act.
在我们通过一项重要的民权立法《公平住房法》近半个世纪后，情况确实如此。
It's been 45 years since we declared as a country that housing discrimination was a problem and we needed to solve it.
45 年前，我们作为一个国家宣布住房歧视是一个问题，我们需要解决它。
When the law was passed, it talked big.
当法律通过时，它说得很大。
It not only banned discrimination in the sale or rental of housing based on race and a bunch of other categories.
它不仅禁止基于种族和其他一系列类别的住房销售或租赁歧视。
The first line of the law says, quote, "It is the policy of the United States to provide, within constitutional limitations, for fair housing throughout the United States." Big.
引用该法律的第一行说：“美国的政策是在宪法限制内，在全美范围内提供公平住房。”大的。
Of course, laws are often big talkers, and it's a lot easier to talk big than to make effective policy.
当然，法律往往是大话家，而说大话比制定有效的政策容易得多。
With housing, with lots of issues.
有了住房，就有很多问题。
But everything that went into creating the Fair Housing Act is worth looking at today, 45 years later-- standard middle aged moment to look back-- to try to understand where we are and aren't today.
但在 45 年后的今天——标准的中年回顾时刻——制定《公平住房法案》的过程中所做的一切都值得回顾，以试图了解我们今天的处境和处境。
Nikole Hannah-Jones, the reporter for ProPublica, spent a year and a half digging into the Fair Housing Act.
ProPublica 的记者 Nikole Hannah-Jones 花了一年半的时间深入研究《公平住房法案》。
Really digging, going to presidential archives, talking to people in government now and from the time the law was passed, looking at demographic data, and at policies going back 80 years, and what she found was that the story really started back when the biggest housing discriminator in the country was the federal government.
认真挖掘，查阅总统档案，与现在和法律通过后的政府人员交谈，查看人口数据，以及 80 年前的政策，她发现，这个故事真正开始于美国最大的住房歧视者是联邦政府的时候。
It really started after the Great Depression.
它真正开始于大萧条之后。
So in the early to mid '30s, the federal government realized that home ownership was going to be a major way to build and fortify the middle class.
因此，在 30 年代初到中期，联邦政府意识到拥有住房将成为建立和巩固中产阶级的主要方式。
So the Roosevelt administration starts to back loans.
因此罗斯福政府开始支持贷款。
And so you only had to put down 20%.
所以你只需支付 20% 即可。
And this is when the practice of redlining actually began.
这就是红线划线实践真正开始的时候。
The federal government was the one who introduced redlining.
联邦政府是提出红线的人。
Redlining is now pretty well known, and the word has become a catch-all for various maneuvers that banks and others have used to deny loans or services based on race.
现在，红线已广为人知，这个词已经成为银行和其他机构用来基于种族拒绝贷款或服务的各种策略的总称。
But most people may not know-- I didn't know-- that it wasn't banks that popularized redlining.
但大多数人可能不知道——我也不知道——普及红线的并不是银行。
It was the federal government under President Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, that drew red lines on maps around certain neighborhoods and refused to back home loans there.
民主党总统富兰克林·罗斯福领导下的联邦政府在某些社区周围的地图上划出了红线，并拒绝支持那里的住房贷款。
There were other designations on the maps, by the way, for areas with Jews and others, anyone who was perceived as risky.
顺便说一句，地图上还有其他名称，用于表示有犹太人和其他人（任何被认为有风险的人）的地区。
Banks followed the government's lead in terms of lending, and so did big government programs that came out later, like the GI bill.
银行在贷款方面跟随政府的脚步，后来出台的大型政府计划也是如此，比如《退伍军人权利法案》。
It was not just about whether a neighborhood was black or not, but whether that neighborhood was integrated, and the government wanted to provide a disincentive to live in an integrated neighborhood.
这不仅关乎一个社区是否是黑人，还关乎该社区是否是黑人社区，而政府希望提供一种抑制措施，以抑制人们居住在融合社区中。
So if you were a white homeowner who didn't mind living in an integrated neighborhood, you could not get a loan.
因此，如果您是一位白人房主，不介意住在综合社区，您就无法获得贷款。
And if you owned a home in an integrated neighborhood, you knew that you could not resell your home to other white folks, so you had to sell your home to black people and get the hell-- oops, excuse me-- get the heck out of there.
如果你在一个综合社区拥有一套房子，你就知道你不能把你的房子转售给其他白人，所以你必须把你的房子卖给黑人，然后——哎呀，对不起——滚出去。
Because your property values were absolutely going to go down.
因为你的房产价值绝对会下降。
It had nothing to do with whether the black people in your neighborhood could afford to pay their mortgage, or whether--
这与你附近的黑人是否有能力支付抵押贷款无关，或者是否——
They mowed their lawns, or-- Nikole Hannah-Jones Right, exactly, not keeping their properties up.
他们修剪了草坪，或者——尼科尔·汉娜·琼斯（Nikole Hannah-Jones），没错，没有维护他们的财产。
It was about the fact that the government was deeming these neighborhoods as less valuable.
这是因为政府认为这些社区的价值较低。
And so your property values were going to go down because the government had decided that black and integrated neighborhoods were automatically less valuable.
因此，你的房产价值将会下降，因为政府决定黑人和综合社区的价值自动降低。
The federal government's redlining drove white flight, and the government did not see this as a problem.
联邦政府的红线驱使白人逃离，但政府并不认为这是一个问题。
Open racism was mainstream in the 1930s, including in the federal government.
公开的种族主义在 20 世纪 30 年代是主流，包括在联邦政府中。
A manual put out by the Federal Housing Administration warned against undesirable encroachment of inharmonious racial groups.
联邦住房管理局发布的一份手册警告不要对不和谐的种族群体进行不良侵犯。
And federal attitudes and policies amplified what was already happening at the local level.
联邦的态度和政策放大了地方层面已经发生的事情。
There was flat out violence in some places, first of all, against blacks trying to move into white neighborhoods.
首先，一些地方发生了针对试图搬入白人社区的黑人的暴力行为。
There were also racial zoning laws, something called racial covenants.
还有种族分区法，称为种族契约。
These were contracts attached to properties that said things like "At no time shall said premises be sold, occupied, let, or leased to anyone of any race other than the Caucasian." But discriminatory policies by the federal government had more reach than any local policy.
这些是附加在房产上的合同，上面写着“在任何时候都不得将房产出售、占用、出租或租赁给除白人以外的任何种族的任何人”。但联邦政府的歧视性政策比任何地方政策影响更大。
And what ultimately happens, of course, between 1934 and 1964, 98% of the home loans that are insured by the federal government go to white Americans, building up the white middle class by allowing them to get home ownership.
当然，最终发生的情况是，在 1934 年至 1964 年间，联邦政府承保的住房贷款中 98% 流向了美国白人，通过允许他们获得住房所有权来建立白人中产阶级。
And black Americans are largely left out of that process.
美国黑人在很大程度上被排除在这一过程之外。
And, if there's one thing that's amazing about all of this, is how efficient the federal government was in creating segregation.
而且，如果说这一切中有一件令人惊奇的话，那就是联邦政府在创造种族隔离方面的效率有多高。
Around 1930, most black Americans in Northern cities are living in neighborhoods that are about 30% black.
1930 年左右，北方城市的大多数美国黑人居住的社区中黑人比例约为 30%。
By the '60s, the neighborhoods of African Americans in the industrial Northeast are 74% percent black and higher.
到了 20 世纪 60 年代，东北部工业区的非裔美国人社区中黑人比例达到 74% 甚至更高。
No other racial or ethnic group has ever been that segregated.
没有其他种族或族裔群体受到如此隔离。
Even when you had large groups of immigrants coming from Ireland or Poland or Italy, even in places where they had Little Italys and things like that.
即使有大量来自爱尔兰、波兰或意大利的移民，即使是在有小意大利之类的地方。
So by 1960, cities have largely been abandoned by white Americans, you have massive public housing projects, where nearly everyone in there is black and poor, and even if you're middle class and black, you can't move out of those neighborhoods.
因此，到 1960 年，城市基本上已被美国白人抛弃，有大规模的公共住房项目，几乎每个人都是黑人和穷人，即使你是中产阶级和黑人，你也无法搬出这些社区。
You're still forced to live in those very dead neighborhoods.
你仍然被迫住在那些死气沉沉的街区。
By 1967, President Lyndon Johnson had already signed into law two civil rights bills, but he couldn't get much traction on a housing law.
到 1967 年，林登·约翰逊总统已经将两项民权法案签署成为法律，但他对住房法却没有太大的推动力。
So he flattered a new young senator, Walter Mondale, into helping lead the push for a housing bill in the Senate.
因此，他奉承新任年轻参议员沃尔特·蒙代尔(Walter Mondale)帮助领导参议院推动住房法案。
Now Walter Mondale was picked because everyone else had turned Lyndon B.
现在沃尔特·蒙代尔被选中是因为其他人都把林登·B.
Johnson down.
约翰逊倒下。
Everyone else was too smart to take it on.
其他人都太聪明了，无法接受它。
Exactly.
确切地。
Housing was toxic.
住房有毒。
All of the other civil rights laws, they were kind of designed to shake their fingers at the recalcitrant South and make the South behave.
所有其他民权法的目的都是为了向顽固的南方动摇手指，让南方循规蹈矩。
And that's exactly what Mondale told you.
这正是蒙代尔告诉你的。
That's right.
这是正确的。
The housing bill was considered the first Northern civil rights bill.
该住房法案被认为是第一个北方民权法案。
It was easy for Northern liberals to support the '65 Voting Rights Act and the 1964 Civil Rights Act, but they balked.
北方自由主义者很容易支持 65 年的投票权法案和 1964 年的民权法案，但他们犹豫了。
Mondale told Nikole that when he brought up a housing bill, some liberal Northern senators told him--
蒙代尔告诉尼科尔，当他提出住房法案时，一些自由派北方参议员告诉他——
You're embarrassing us with this.
你这样让我们难堪。
You're making us look like hypocrites by introducing this bill, and we can't support it.
你们提出这项法案让我们看起来像伪君子，我们不能支持它。
By exposing our hypocrisy, you're making us look like hypocrites.
通过揭露我们的虚伪，你让我们看起来像伪善者。
That's exactly right.
完全正确。
Nancy Updike The idea that housing was a Northern problem as well as a Southern one was also made clear when Reverend Martin Luther King went to Chicago to push for what he called open-housing.
南希·厄普代克 当马丁·路德·金牧师前往芝加哥推动他所谓的开放住房时，住房既是北方问题也是南方问题这一观点也得到了明确的体现。
When he started moving his movement northward to address housing segregation, that's when he began to lose a lot of support.
当他开始将运动向北推进以解决住房隔离问题时，他就开始失去很多支持。
The white liberals who had supported his campaign in the South began to abandon him.
支持他在南方竞选活动的白人自由主义者开始抛弃他。
When he was marching for housing integration in Chicago, an angry mob hit him in the head with a rock.
当他在芝加哥游行争取住房融合时，一群愤怒的暴民用石头击中了他的头部。
More and more Americans were finding blatant racial discrimination to be gross and unacceptable, but that didn't mean they were prepared for their own lives to change.
越来越多的美国人发现公然的种族歧视是粗暴且不可接受的，但这并不意味着他们准备好改变自己的生活。
What Mondale figured out was that the Senate version of that disconnect, if he leveraged it right, might work in the Fair Housing Bill's favor.
蒙代尔发现，参议院版本的这种脱节，如果他利用得当，可能会对公平住房法案有利。
He starts to gather testimony from veterans, African Americans who had fought in Vietnam and who were serving in the military, and the trouble that they were having after coming back from fighting for this country, and then coming home and not being able to find housing because of their race.
他开始收集退伍军人、曾在越南作战和在军队服役的非裔美国人的证词，以及他们为这个国家战斗归来后遇到的麻烦，然后回家却因为种族而无法找到住房。
And one of the testimony that really started to change minds was Carlos Campbell.
真正开始改变人们想法的证人之一是卡洛斯·坎贝尔。
There's no recording of Campbell's testimony, but it's in the written record.
坎贝尔的证词没有记录，但有书面记录。
He was a lieutenant in the Navy, a navigator, who'd been serving for eight years and was still on active duty when he was assigned to the Defense Intelligence Agency in Arlington, Virginia.
他是一名海军中尉，一名航海员，已经服役八年，在被分配到弗吉尼亚州阿灵顿的国防情报局时仍在服役。
He said he spent weeks going to more than 30 apartments in the area, wearing his uniform, which he described as complete with gold stripes and gold wings.
他说，他花了几个星期的时间，穿着他的制服走遍了该地区的 30 多间公寓，据他描述，制服上有金色条纹和金色翅膀。
Some places told him flat out, "we aren't integrated." Others turned him away by saying that they had an exceptionally long waiting list, or that it would take at least four weeks to process a routine application.
有些地方直截了当地告诉他：“我们没有融入。”其他人拒绝了他，说他们的等待名单特别长，或者处理常规申请至少需要四个星期的时间。
Finally, the only way that Campbell-- a military officer who had been hired by the Pentagon-- the only way that he was able to find a place for his family to live was by renting the home of a fellow military officer who was being posted elsewhere for a couple of years.
最后，坎贝尔——一名受五角大楼聘用的军官——为家人找到住处的唯一方法是租用一位在其他地方任职几年的军官同事的房子。
Campbell's testimony started changing some Senator's minds, even some outright segregationists.
坎贝尔的证词开始改变一些参议员的想法，甚至是一些彻底的种族隔离主义者。
Campbell had fought for his country but was being turned away from housing for his family.
坎贝尔曾为他的国家而战，但他的家人却被拒绝提供住房。
It seemed un-American.
这看起来不符合美国风格。
But still the bill didn't pass, and the country was in the midst of massive upheaval.
但该法案仍然没有通过，国家正处于巨大的动荡之中。
Starting from '65 until '68, there were riots in black communities in more than 100 cities across the nation.
从65年到68年，全国100多个城市的黑人社区都发生了骚乱。
[GUNFIRE] Nancy Updike This is Newark, New Jersey in 1967.
[枪声] 南希·厄普代克 这是 1967 年新泽西州的纽瓦克。
Some of you probably lived through the riots in your cities, but for those who didn't, this video from Newark looks like scenes from a foreign war, where the military is fighting in the streets of a city.
你们中的一些人可能经历过城市的骚乱，但对于那些没有经历过的人来说，这段来自纽瓦克的视频看起来就像一场外国战争的场景，军队在城市的街道上作战。
Truckloads of men in military uniforms are driving through.
一卡车的穿着军装的男人正驶过。
And riots were happening in cities all over the country.
全国各地的城市都发生骚乱。
Los Angeles, Chicago, Cleveland, San Francisco, Tampa, Buffalo, Atlanta, Boston, Omaha, Waukegan, Detroit, Durham, Memphis, Milwaukee, Minneapolis.
洛杉矶、芝加哥、克利夫兰、旧金山、坦帕、布法罗、亚特兰大、波士顿、奥马哈、沃基根、底特律、达勒姆、孟菲斯、密尔沃基、明尼阿波利斯。
I can't imagine this happening in dozens of cities every year for three years.
我无法想象三年来每年数十个城市都会发生这种情况。
Tanks rolling through American cities.
坦克驶过美国城市。
You have combat troops in American cities.
你在美国城市有战斗部队。
Buildings on fire.
建筑物着火。
President Johnson appointed a commission known as the Kerner Commission, Republicans and Democrats, to look into the riots, which were freaking out the entire country-- no surprise.
约翰逊总统任命了一个名为“克纳委员会”的委员会，由共和党和民主党组成，负责调查这场震惊全国的骚乱——这并不奇怪。
In debates, some members of Congress argued that civil rights legislation, including a housing law, would reward and encourage rioting.
在辩论中，一些国会议员认为，包括住房法在内的民权立法将奖励和鼓励骚乱。
The Kerner Commission's report came out while Congress was debating a fair housing bill for the third time, after it had failed to pass twice before.
克纳委员会的报告发布之际，国会正在第三次辩论公平住房法案，之前该法案曾两次未能通过。
The report was published as a paperback book-- I'm looking down at a copy right now-- and it's got three questions emblazoned on the front.
该报告以平装书形式出版——我现在正在低头看一本——正面印着三个问题。
These are the questions President Johnson had publicly asked the commission to address.
这些是约翰逊总统公开要求委员会解决的问题。
What happened?
发生了什么？
Why did it happen?
为什么会发生这样的事？
What can be done?
可以做什么？
It sold something like two million copies when it first came out, so Americans were actually really interested--
它刚发行时就卖出了大约两百万份，所以美国人实际上非常感兴趣——
That's a bestseller.
那是一本畅销书。
Nikole Hannah-Jones --in this report.
尼科尔·汉娜·琼斯——在这份报告中。
It was definitely a bestseller, and back then it was certainly a bestseller.
这绝对是一本畅销书，在当时也确实是一本畅销书。
But you have to understand, there had been four years of rioting in cities all across the country.
但你必须明白，全国各地的城市已经发生了四年的骚乱。
And so I think many Americans were anxious to read an assessment of why this was.
因此，我认为许多美国人都急于阅读有关其原因的评估。
The report is more than 600 pages, but its conclusion was simple, and has been famously and repeatedly quoted since.
这份报告有600多页，但其结论很简单，并且此后被多次引用。
Quote, "Our nation is moving toward two societies, one black and one white, separate and unequal." The commissioners had spent months going to the cities, looking at data, interviewing people, residents, police, politicians, and they concluded that there was one central driving force behind the riots.
引用：“我们的国家正在走向两个社会，一个是黑人，一个是白人，分离且不平等。”委员们花了几个月的时间前往城市，查看数据，采访民众、居民、警察、政客，他们得出的结论是，骚乱背后有一个核心驱动力。
This is Nikole quoting from the book.
这是 Nikole 从书中引用的内容。
She's got her own copy.
她有自己的副本。
"Segregation and poverty have created, in the racial ghetto, a destructive environment totally unknown to most white Americans.
“种族隔离和贫困在种族隔离区创造了大多数美国白人完全不知道的破坏性环境。
What white Americans have never fully understood, but what the Negro can never forget, is that white society is deeply implicated in the ghetto.
美国白人从未完全理解，但黑人永远无法忘记的是，白人社会与贫民窟有着深深的牵连。
White institutions created it, white institutions maintain it, and white society condones it."
白人机构创造了它，白人机构维护了它，白人社会纵容了它。”
So I think people tend to think that generally people live like they do.
所以我认为人们倾向于认为人们通常都是这样生活的。
And I think that they took great pains to say, we went into these communities--
我认为他们煞费苦心地说，我们进入了这些社区——
We the commission.
我们委员会。
Nikole Hannah-Jones Exactly, we the Kerner commission.
Nikole Hannah-Jones 没错，我们是克纳委员会。
We're like you.
我们和你一样。
You know, we're a largely white male group, and we went into those communities, and--
你知道，我们主要是白人男性群体，我们走进了这些社区，然后——
They're not living like us.
他们的生活与我们不同。
Nikole Hannah-Jones --we found something-- yeah-- that we did not imagine.
Nikole Hannah-Jones——我们发现了一些——是的——我们没有想象到的东西。
My fellow citizens, Detroit and much of Michigan have just lived through seven days of terror and trouble and tension.
我的同胞们，底特律和密歇根州的大部分地区刚刚经历了7天的恐怖、麻烦和紧张。
This is the governor of Michigan at the time, George Romney, Mitt Romney's father.
这是当时的密歇根州州长乔治·罗姆尼，米特·罗姆尼的父亲。
George Romney was about to become a huge player in the story of the Fair Housing Act.
乔治·罗姆尼即将成为《公平住房法案》故事中的重要人物。
His state had been hit with one of the worst riots in US history, Detroit in 1967.
1967 年，底特律发生了美国历史上最严重的骚乱之一。
Romney called in the National Guard, President Johnson sent in army troops, 43 people died, over 1,000 injured, tens of millions of dollars worth of damage.
罗姆尼出动国民警卫队，约翰逊总统出动军队，造成43人死亡、1000多人受伤，损失价值数千万美元。
Governor Romney was planning to run for president in the coming year, and he gave a live televised speech to the people of Michigan in the aftermath of the Detroit riots.
罗姆尼州长计划明年竞选总统，他在底特律骚乱后向密歇根州人民发表了现场电视讲话。
Some white people and public officials advocate the return to states' rights as a way to legalize segregation of the races.
一些白人和公职人员主张恢复州权，以此作为种族隔离合法化的一种方式。
White extremist organizations are preaching hate and arming.
白人极端主义组织宣扬仇恨和武装。
More and more Negroes are listening to and supporting Negro leaders who advocate a separate black society in America.
越来越多的黑人正在倾听并支持黑人领袖倡导在美国建立独立的黑人社会。
These militant revolutionists are preaching hate, violence, and rebellion.
这些激进的革命者宣扬仇恨、暴力和叛乱。
Romney believed the country was in danger of splintering, and he laid out a whole plan in his speech to fight that.
罗姆尼认为国家正面临分裂的危险，他在演讲中制定了应对这一问题的整体计划。
He wanted tough law enforcement, moral and religious renewal, both very popular ideas.
他想要严厉的执法、道德和宗教的复兴，这都是非常流行的想法。
But he also declared that, while others were calling for more separation between blacks and whites in response to the riots, he, Romney, was going to lead Michigan in the opposite direction with a special focus on housing.
但他也宣称，虽然其他人呼吁加强黑人和白人之间的隔离以应对骚乱，但他罗姆尼将带领密歇根州走向相反的方向，特别关注住房问题。
And he didn't just throw in a token sentence about it.
他不只是象征性地表达了这句话。
We must have open housing on a statewide basis.
我们必须在全州范围内提供开放式住房。
Zoning that creates either large-scale economic or racial segregation should be eliminated.
应消除造成大规模经济或种族隔离的分区。
We must provide low cost private housing through nonprofit organizations in all parts of the metropolitan area and throughout the state.
我们必须通过非营利组织在大都市区和全州各地提供低成本私人住房。
We must compel real estate agents to--
我们必须迫使房地产经纪人——
I was reading through Romney's papers, and he was getting all of these letters from angry white citizens--
我正在通读罗姆尼的报纸，他收到了所有这些来自愤怒的白人公民的来信——
After the riots.
骚乱之后。
Nikole Hannah-Jones --after the riots, who were on the one hand commending him for his law and order approach-- they called in the National Guard, there were actually, again, army combat troops were brought to quell it-- and they really were applauding him for his use of force in quelling the riots.
尼科尔·汉纳-琼斯——骚乱发生后，一方面赞扬他维护法律和秩序的做法——他们召集了国民警卫队，实际上，又派出了陆军作战部队来平息——他们确实赞扬他使用武力平息骚乱。
Some of them wanting him to go even further, some of the letters being very openly racist, and his response to them I found to be remarkable.
他们中的一些人希望他走得更远，其中一些信件是非常公开的种族主义，我发现他对这些信件的回应非常出色。
Most politicians, I think, would've played into that for popularity.
我认为，大多数政客都会为了受欢迎而利用这一点。
Thank you for your support.
感谢您的支持。
Nikole Hannah-Jones Exactly.
尼科尔·汉娜·琼斯 没错。
I'll do it again if I have to.
如果有必要的话我会再做一次。
But his answer to them was, yes, I had to, we will not accept lawlessness, but at the same time we can't just look away from what's caused this.
但他对他们的回答是，是的，我必须这样做，我们不会接受无法无天的行为，但同时我们也不能忽视造成这种情况的原因。
And he believed that housing segregation and the conditions created by the ghetto were what led to the riots, and that it was his duty to address those.
他认为住房隔离和贫民窟创造的条件是导致骚乱的原因，他有责任解决这些问题。
And--
还有——
He wrote-- Nikole Hannah-Jones He wrote that in letters, over and over.
他写道——尼科尔·汉娜·琼斯（Nikole Hannah-Jones） 他在信中一遍又一遍地写下这一点。
George Romney was way out ahead of the federal government here.
乔治·罗姆尼在这方面远远领先于联邦政府。
The Fair Housing Act had failed to pass Congress in 1966, failed again in 1967, even though it was gaining votes.
《公平住房法案》在 1966 年未能在国会获得通过，并在 1967 年再次失败，尽管它获得了选票。
In 1968, the Kerner Commission report came out, but still the bill was expected to fail a third time, until Reverend Martin Luther King was assassinated.
1968年，克纳委员会的报告出来了，但该法案仍有望第三次失败，直到马丁·路德·金牧师被暗杀。
A week later, the Fair Housing Act passed, and the fight to implement it began.
一周后，《公平住房法案》获得通过，实施该法案的斗争开始了。
Nancy Updike.
南希·厄普代克。
Coming up, George Romney versus the President of the United States.
接下来，乔治·罗姆尼将对阵美国总统。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, House Rules.
今天的节目是《房屋规则》。
If neighborhood is destiny, or something like that, how we have ended up in the neighborhoods that we're in.
如果邻居是命运，或者类似的东西，那么我们是如何最终来到我们所在的社区的。
We're devoting our whole show today to the story of the law that ordered the federal government to proactively integrate housing in this country, and what happened after it was passed.
我们今天的整个节目主要讲述命令联邦政府积极整合这个国家的住房的法律的故事，以及该法律通过后发生的事情。
Nancy Updike tells our story this hour.
南希·厄普代克本小时讲述我们的故事。
A lot of that story is based on research done by Nikole Hannah-Jones, from the investigative reporting organization ProPublica.
这个故事的大部分内容都是基于调查报道组织 ProPublica 的 Nikole Hannah-Jones 所做的研究。
She's been researching this history for a special project on fair housing laws that's on ProPublica's homepage right now.
她一直在为一个关于公平住房法的特别项目研究这段历史，该项目目前已出现在 ProPublica 的主页上。
We have arrived at Act Two of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。
Act Two, The Missionary.
第二幕，传教士。
So Nancy now picks up our story where we left off, 1968, when the Fair Housing Act was signed into law.
南希现在从 1968 年中断的地方继续讲起我们的故事，当时《公平住房法案》签署成为法律。
The next president after the Fair Housing Act passed was Richard Nixon, and to head the department that was going to oversee the new law he appointed George Romney, former governor of Michigan, former businessman, recent author of a book called The Concerns of a Citizen .
《公平住房法案》通过后的下一任总统是理查德·尼克松，他任命乔治·罗姆尼为负责监督新法律的部门的负责人。乔治·罗姆尼是密歇根州前州长、前商人，最近出版了一本名为《公民的担忧》一书的作者。
In the book, there's a speech he gave that starts, "I have just returned from a tour across America.
在书中，他发表了一次演讲，开头是：“我刚刚从美国旅行回来。
It was the kind of tour that few Americans have taken and few would care to take.
这种旅行很少有美国人参加过，也很少有人愿意参加。
I saw the America of ugly streets and rotten buildings.
我看到美国充满了丑陋的街道和腐烂的建筑。
The America of congestion, illiteracy, and want.
美国充满了拥堵、文盲和匮乏。
The America of shattered expectations and rising fury." He gave that speech months before the Kerner Commission report came out.
美国的期望破灭，愤怒不断上升。”他在克纳委员会报告发布前几个月发表了演讲。
George Romney was of the Republican Party's more liberal Northern wing.
乔治·罗姆尼属于共和党中较为自由的北翼。
Again, this is Nikole Hannah-Jones, the reporter from ProPublica.
我是 ProPublica 的记者 Nikole Hannah-Jones。
And he actually ran against Nixon in the presidential election, and part of his undoing was his outspokenness on the issue of race.
他实际上在总统选举中与尼克松竞争，而他的失败的部分原因是他在种族问题上的直言不讳。
He actually said that the white suburbs had created a noose around the black inner cities, which is pretty strong language evoking lynching, but that's what he believed was happening.
他实际上说白人郊区在黑人内城区周围制造了一个绞索，这是相当强烈的语言，让人想起私刑，但他相信这就是正在发生的事情。
Why did Nixon pick Romney to lead housing?
尼克松为何选择罗姆尼领导房地产市场？
He definitely wasn't a political soul mate.
他绝对不是政治上的灵魂伴侣。
But Romney made sense.
但罗姆尼说得有道理。
He was a high profile Republican who was credible on housing issues because of his stand in Michigan.
他是一位高调的共和党人，由于他在密歇根州的立场，他在住房问题上是可信的。
So Romney's new job was Secretary of HUD, the Department of Housing and Urban Development.
因此，罗姆尼的新职位是 HUD（住房和城市发展部）部长。
And this was a job for a confident man, because here's HUD in 1968.
这是一个自信的人的工作，因为这里是 1968 年的 HUD。
It's a newly formed department-- had been created only three years before-- and it was administering programs that, until recently, had explicitly discriminated based on race, running public housing that was either only for whites or only for blacks, denying loans in integrated areas, now charged with doing the exact opposite, enforcing the brand new fair housing law.
这是一个新成立的部门——成立仅三年——它所管理的项目直到最近还存在明显的种族歧视，运营只为白人或只为黑人提供的公共住房，拒绝向综合性地区提供贷款，现在却负责执行完全相反的事情，执行全新的公平住房法。
And for enforcement, Romney was left mainly with a vague section of the law that instructed HUD to--
在执行方面，罗姆尼主要留下了法律中一个模糊的部分，指示 HUD：
"Affirmatively further" the provisions of the law, so--
“肯定进一步”法律的规定，所以——
And those are the words in the law, "affirmatively further."
这就是法律中的措辞：“肯定进一步”。
Yes.
是的。
It wasn't just that the government had to stop discriminating and enforce the law, but the law was written to say, you actually have to take proactive steps to dismantle the segregation that you helped create.
这不仅是政府必须停止歧视并执行法律，而且法律的目的是说，你实际上必须采取积极主动的措施来消除你帮助创造的种族隔离。
The question was how to do it.
问题是如何去做。
Here's how Romney went about trying to fulfill that mandate to affirmatively further fair housing.
以下是罗姆尼如何努力履行这一使命，积极推动公平住房。
He realizes-- so the US Department of Housing and Urban Development was giving billions of dollars in grants for sewers and highways, and to build housing in communities all across the country, and Romney decides that that is a good choke point.
他意识到，美国住房和城市发展部正在为下水道和高速公路提供数十亿美元的拨款，并在全国各地的社区建造住房，罗姆尼认为这是一个很好的瓶颈。
That if communities are going to be taking federal dollars, particularly federal housing dollars, they better be willing to open themselves up to people of different races, particularly African Americans at that time.
如果社区要接受联邦资金，特别是联邦住房资金，他们最好愿意向不同种族的人，特别是当时的非裔美国人开放。
But he also knows that this is not something that Nixon is going to be happy with.
但他也知道，这不会是尼克松满意的事情。
President Nixon was complicated on civil rights, like he was on everything.
尼克松总统对民权问题的态度很复杂，就像他对所有事情都很复杂一样。
His administration worked to build up minority-owned businesses.
他的政府致力于建立少数族裔拥有的企业。
They made efforts to desegregate schools.
他们努力废除学校种族隔离。
But when it came to housing, Nixon was vehemently against what he called forced integration.
但在住房问题上，尼克松强烈反对他所谓的强制融合。
So opposed that for a while he was bent on pushing a constitutional amendment to ban it.
如此反对以至于他一度一心想推动宪法修正案来禁止它。
Of course, Romney would say it's voluntary integration because you don't have to take these federal dollars, and if you don't want the money, then do what you want.
当然，罗姆尼会说这是自愿融入，因为你不必拿这些联邦资金，如果你不想要钱，那就做你想做的事。
Right.
正确的。
Nancy Updike Romney had the backbone and the bullheadedness of a true believer.
南希·厄普代克·罗姆尼拥有真正信徒的骨气和顽固。
He thought housing segregation was a central part of, quote, "the greatest crisis in our nation's history." He didn't have the patience for building momentum or trying to sway Nixon.
他认为住房隔离是“我们国家历史上最大的危机”的核心部分。他没有耐心积聚动力或试图影响尼克松。
So Romney's archives have all of these letters going back and forth between Romney and his advisers, and his advisers writing each other, putting together their plan to affirmatively further the Fair Housing Act.
因此，罗姆尼的档案中包含罗姆尼和他的顾问之间来回发送的所有信件，以及他的顾问们互相写信，共同制定他们的计划，积极推进《公平住房法案》。
And they're trying to figure out, OK, how do we do this without letting Nixon know.
他们试图弄清楚，好吧，我们如何在不让尼克松知道的情况下做到这一点。
And so they have all these strategies-- we can just tell him, but if we tell him, he'll stop it.
所以他们有所有这些策略——我们可以告诉他，但如果我们告诉他，他就会阻止。
Or we can maybe let him know a little bit.
或者我们可以让他知道一点。
Or do we just completely launch it under the radar and then let him know at some later point.
或者我们只是在雷达下完全启动它，然后在稍后的某个时候让他知道。
And that's ultimately what they decide to do.
这就是他们最终决定要做的。
They decide that they're just going to start this project called Open Communities.
他们决定启动这个名为“开放社区”的项目。
And they're going to launch it, they're going to start withholding money, and they're just going to hope that the federal bureaucracy will provide them cover, that Nixon won't really know what's going on until they're deeply into enforcing the law.
他们将启动它，他们将开始扣留资金，他们只是希望联邦官僚机构能为他们提供掩护，尼克松在他们深入执行法律之前不会真正知道发生了什么。
So under Romney, HUD started checking, were communities complying with the Fair Housing Act, and if not, withhold money.
因此，在罗姆尼的领导下，住房和城市发展部开始检查社区是否遵守《公平住房法案》，如果不遵守，则扣留资金。
Use federal dollars as both carrot and stick.
使用联邦资金作为胡萝卜加大棒。
Really, HUD could go after almost any community at that point, right, because almost every community was discriminating in some way in the way it was dealing with housing and development dollars.
事实上，HUD 可以在那时追查几乎所有社区，对吧，因为几乎每个社区在处理住房和开发资金的方式上都存在某种程度的歧视。
In Boston, there was-- they were trying to build some government housing, and Boston was blocking that housing, so that came to HUD's attention.
在波士顿，他们试图建造一些政府住房，而波士顿正在封锁这些住房，因此引起了住房和城市发展部的注意。
And HUD says, OK, you either allow this housing to go in, or we're going to-- we're not going to give you this grant.
HUD 说，好吧，你要么允许这些住房入住，要么我们——我们不会给你这笔补助金。
And these cities were basically building highways, they were building infrastructure, almost entirely with federal dollars in some cases, so this was a pretty big deal.
这些城市基本上都在修建高速公路，他们在建设基础设施，在某些情况下几乎完全用联邦资金，所以这是一件相当大的事情。
And remarkably, cities started to comply when they were threatened with these federal dollars.
值得注意的是，当城市受到这些联邦资金的威胁时，它们开始遵守规定。
As Romney is moving ahead with his plan, having some initial successes, he gets a letter from Nixon's advisor John Ehrlichman, saying basically--
当罗姆尼正在推进他的计划并取得一些初步成功时，他收到了尼克松顾问约翰·埃利希曼的一封信，信中基本上说——
Uh, we're starting to hear about some program you have, but we haven't given any clearance.
呃，我们开始听说你们有一些计划，但我们还没有给予任何许可。
And Romney just brushes it off, and he's like, oh, we're just talking about it, we're not actually really doing anything yet.
罗姆尼只是对此置之不理，他说，哦，我们只是在谈论它，我们实际上还没有真正做任何事情。
Of course he was.
当然是。
But, you know, it's a federal bureaucracy, and HUD was just one of many agencies, so--
但是，你知道，这是一个联邦官僚机构，HUD 只是众多机构之一，所以——
So he just lies.
所以他只是撒谎。
Nikole Hannah-Jones He-- yeah.
Nikole Hannah-Jones He——是的。
In order to keep moving ahead with this, and that works.
为了继续推进这一点，这是可行的。
And it works-- Nancy Updike For a while.
它确实有效——南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike）有一段时间。
Romney clearly had guile, but he couldn't keep his program secret forever.
罗姆尼显然有诡计，但他不能永远保守自己的计划秘密。
And he'd started something that couldn't last without the support of the White House.
他开始了一些如果没有白宫的支持就无法持续的事情。
And the White House was hearing complaints about what he was doing.
白宫也听到了对他所做事情的抱怨。
From Michigan, Romney's home state.
来自罗姆尼的家乡密歇根州。
Romney had tried to withhold money from a city called Warren, Michigan, because of discriminatory housing policies.
由于歧视性住房政策，罗姆尼曾试图从密歇根州沃伦市扣留资金。
Romney had had a previous run in with Warren as governor.
罗姆尼此前曾与沃伦担任州长时发生过冲突。
Very, very segregated.
非常非常隔离。
When an interracial family had tried to move into a neighborhood, Romney had been forced as governor to send in the state police, because the neighbors raised such a ruckus and were threatening that family.
当一个跨种族家庭试图搬进一个社区时，罗姆尼作为州长被迫派出州警察，因为邻居们闹得沸沸扬扬，并威胁那个家庭。
Warren was one of the places white Detroiters had fled to after the riots.
沃伦是底特律白人在骚乱后逃往的地方之一。
So these were people who felt very raw, who had intentionally moved to this community so that they would not have to live around black people, and they were very upset.
所以这些人感觉很原始，他们故意搬到这个社区，这样他们就不必生活在黑人周围，他们非常沮丧。
As HUD secretary, Romney made a tentative deal with Warren officials, and that might have been the end of it, but then the case got press.
作为住房和城市发展部部长，罗姆尼与沃伦官员达成了一项初步协议，这可能就结束了，但此案随后受到媒体报道。
The Detroit News headline was "US picks Warren as prime target in move to integrate all suburbs." Residents of Warren and other suburbs were up in arms.
底特律新闻的标题是“美国选择沃伦作为整合所有郊区的首要目标”。沃伦和其他郊区的居民武装起来。
Warren's mayor said the town would not be, quote, "a guinea pig for integration experiments." The White House told Romney to back off and give Warren the money.
沃伦市长表示，该镇不会成为“融合实验的小白鼠”。白宫要求罗姆尼退一步，把钱给沃伦。
When Nixon had appointed Romney, he praised his, quote, "missionary zeal." Now Nixon and his advisers were talking in memos behind the scenes about having, quote, "a serious Romney problem." When Romney tried to pressure Atlanta, a group of Nixon's Southern supporters met with the president.
当尼克松任命罗姆尼时，他赞扬了罗姆尼的“传教士热情”。现在，尼克松和他的顾问在幕后备忘录中谈论“严重的罗姆尼问题”。当罗姆尼试图向亚特兰大施压时，一群尼克松的南方支持者会见了总统。
They'd been key to his election.
他们是他当选的关键。
They tell him, you made promises to us.
他们告诉他，你向我们做出了承诺。
That's why we supported you.
这就是我们支持你的原因。
And now people are beginning to think of you as Mr. Integrator, which was an insult, apparently.
现在人们开始认为你是整合者先生，这显然是一种侮辱。
And they told him, we in the South are motivated by race.
他们告诉他，我们南方人的动机是种族。
And these are all in meeting notes from that meeting with Nixon, and they pressured him to do something to rein Romney in.
这些都在与尼克松会面的会议记录中，他们向尼克松施压，要求他采取措施来遏制罗姆尼。
And that's when he starts to freeze Romney out of the administration.
就在那时，他开始将罗姆尼排除在政府之外。
Nixon stopped meeting with Romney.
尼克松停止与罗姆尼会面。
Not only were some of his supporters complaining to him, he also didn't agree with what Romney was doing.
不仅他的一些支持者向他抱怨，他也不同意罗姆尼的做法。
He sent an intermediary to Romney to tell him that his special skill set would now be most useful to the administration in Mexico as ambassador.
他派了一位中间人去见罗姆尼，告诉他，他的特殊技能现在对墨西哥政府作为大使最有用。
Romney didn't want that.
罗姆尼不希望这样。
It's very clear from the unofficial resignation letter that Romney wrote Nixon that he knew he was being pushed out and that Nixon wanted a HUD secretary that was more to his political liking.
从罗姆尼写给尼克松的非正式辞职信中可以清楚地看出，他知道自己将被赶下台，而尼克松想要一位更符合他政治喜好的住房和城市发展部部长。
He turned it down, and he resigned.
他拒绝了，然后就辞职了。
A new law is a battlefield.
新法律就是一个战场。
People and branches of government fight over interpretation and enforcement, and lack of precision in a law's wording can be turned to anyone's advantage.
人民和政府部门在解释和执行方面存在争议，法律措辞的不精确性可能会对任何人有利。
Romney had used the broadness of affirmatively furthering fair housing to push federal action.
罗姆尼利用积极促进公平住房的广泛性来推动联邦行动。
Nixon used the vagueness of those words to limit federal action.
尼克松利用这些含糊不清的措辞来限制联邦行动。
Nixon begins to gather his lawyers and staff to determine just how narrowly he can enforce the Fair Housing Act.
尼克松开始召集他的律师和工作人员，以确定他可以在多大范围内执行《公平住房法》。
And he sends out a staff to produce these memos for him.
他派出一名工作人员为他制作这些备忘录。
And when one of his staff members comes back and says, well, what Romney was doing was actually within the law, and I don't think we can ignore this mandate to be active in breaking down segregation, he's chastised for that, as kind of not being on board, and is told to go back in and rewrite a more narrow reading.
当他的一名工作人员回来说，好吧，罗姆尼所做的实际上是在法律范围内的，我认为我们不能忽视这项积极打破种族隔离的任务，他因此受到了惩罚，就像没有参与其中一样，并被告知要回去重写一个更狭隘的解读。
In a private memo to his advisers, Nixon wrote, quote, "Even if I should become convinced, and I don't think it would be possible to convince me, that forced integration of education and housing was in the best interests of blacks and not too detrimental to whites, I could not possibly support it in good conscience."
尼克松在给顾问的私人备忘录中写道，“即使我相信，而且我认为不可能说服我，强迫教育和住房一体化符合黑人的最大利益，而且对白人也没有太大损害，我也不可能凭良心支持它。”
He, I think-- it's easy to demonize him, but I think Nixon encapsulates that tension that has always been with us around issues of race in that we never put as much effort into undoing the harms as effort that we've put into creating them.
我认为，妖魔化他很容易，但我认为尼克松概括了我们在种族问题上一直存在的紧张局势，因为我们在消除伤害方面所付出的努力从来没有像我们在创造伤害方面所付出的努力那么多。
And he believed that he was taking the more practical, moderate view, which is, of course legal segregation is wrong, and it's a good thing that we have gotten rid of that, but it's also wrong to disrupt people, to force upon people something that they don't want.
他认为他采取了更实际、更温和的观点，这当然是，合法的种族隔离是错误的，我们废除了这种种族隔离是一件好事，但扰乱人们、将他们不想要的东西强加给人们也是错误的。
President Nixon elaborated on his views in that memo to his advisers Ehrlichman and Haldeman, basically a long single-spaced typed letter.
尼克松总统在给他的顾问埃利希曼和霍尔德曼的备忘录中详细阐述了他的观点，基本上是一封长长的单行距打字信。
What was most chilling about that letter to me-- and this was-- he was doing all this-- it was an eyes only memo to his two most trusted advisers, this was not something that he talked about publicly-- and what he said was, "I realize that this position will lead us to a situation in which blacks will continue to live for the most part in black neighborhoods, and where there will be predominantly black schools, and predominantly white schools."
这封信让我最不寒而栗的是，他正在做这一切，这只是给他最信任的两位顾问的一份备忘录，这不是他公开谈论的事情，他所说的是，“我意识到这一立场将导致我们面临这样一种情况：黑人将继续大部分生活在黑人社区，那里的学校将主要是黑人学校和白人学校。”
And you're reading this from the letter.
你正在读这封信。
I'm reading directly from the letter.
我直接读这封信。
So he understands that what this means is that what-- the very issues that the civil rights laws were supposed to pass-- I mean address-- will go unaddressed, right.
所以他明白这意味着什么——民权法本应通过的问题——我的意思是解决——将得不到解决，对吧。
By taking this view, the schools will still be segregated and neighborhoods will still be segregated.
按照这种观点，学校仍将被隔离，社区仍将被隔离。
And if you think about the way that we talk about these issues today, the argument is that yes, legal segregation was wrong, but policies that take race into account to address these issues are just as wrong.
如果你想想我们今天谈论这些问题的方式，你会发现，法律上的种族隔离是错误的，但解决这些问题时考虑种族因素的政策同样是错误的。
So where has that left us?
那么我们又去了哪里呢？
It's left us in a place where we no longer have segregation by law, but we still have segregation by fact, and this moderate view says that there's nothing we can or should do about it.
它使我们处于法律上不再存在种族隔离的境地，但事实上我们仍然存在种族隔离，这种温和的观点表明我们对此无能为力或不应该采取任何措施。
And I think when you think about that logic, that's a logic that has held true really over the last 40 years.
我认为当你思考这个逻辑时，你会发现这个逻辑在过去 40 年里一直是正确的。
The Fair Housing Act has been enforced unevenly by the federal government, to say the least, in the last four decades.
至少可以说，在过去四十年中，联邦政府对《公平住房法》的执行并不均衡。
A lot has depended on individual people or advocacy organizations bringing lawsuits under the act one at a time, or the Department of Justice bringing lawsuits.
这在很大程度上取决于个人或倡导组织一次根据该法案提起诉讼，或者司法部提起诉讼。
For the first 20 years of the law, HUD didn't even have the power to sue a landlord or company if HUD believed they were discriminating.
在该法律实施的前 20 年里，如果 HUD 认为房东或公司有歧视行为，HUD 甚至无权起诉他们。
HUD couldn't compel anyone to do anything.
HUD 不能强迫任何人做任何事情。
They could just mediate, like a sort of housing couples therapist.
他们可以像住房夫妻治疗师一样进行调解。
And the part of the Fair Housing Act that was meant to address the big picture, to make sure zoning laws and local housing policies comply with the law, the mandate to affirmatively further fair housing, to actively fix the problem, that's been more or less in a coma since George Romney left, even though periodically people try to revive it by deciding on some new interpretation of what it means to affirmatively further fair housing.
《公平住房法》中旨在解决大局问题、确保分区法和地方住房政策符合法律、积极推进公平住房、积极解决问题的任务，自乔治·罗姆尼离开以来或多或少处于昏迷状态，尽管人们定期试图通过对积极推进公平住房的含义做出一些新的解释来恢复它。
The Obama administration recently made a move to revive it.
奥巴马政府最近采取了重振这一举措的举措。
We'll see what happens with that.
我们会看看会发生什么。
So given this record of enforcement, where are we?
那么，考虑到这一执法记录，我们现在处于什么位置呢？
Well, there's no question that black-white segregation has declined significantly overall in the United States.
毫无疑问，美国的黑人和白人种族隔离现象总体上已显着下降。
Specifically, some African Americans have left the highly segregated cities of the Northeast and the Midwest and migrated to less segregated Sun Belt cities.
具体来说，一些非裔美国人离开了东北部和中西部高度隔离的城市，迁移到隔离程度较低的阳光地带城市。
Also, relatively small numbers of African Americans who can afford it have moved into formerly all white or mostly white communities.
此外，相对少数有能力负担得起的非裔美国人已经搬进了以前全是白人或以白人为主的社区。
What's left behind are concentrated areas that are usually poor and mostly African-American.
剩下的都是集中地区，这些地区通常很贫穷，而且大部分是非裔美国人。
But that can make it seem like segregation now is all about poverty rather than race, and it's not.
但这可能会让人觉得现在的种族隔离只是为了贫穷而不是种族，但事实并非如此。
The average African-American household making $75,000 a year or more, that family lives in a poorer neighborhood than the average white family making less than $40,000 a year.
非裔美国家庭的平均年收入为 75,000 美元或以上，该家庭居住的社区比平均年收入低于 40,000 美元的白人家庭还要贫困。
That is, a black family making twice as much money as a white family probably still lives in a poorer neighborhood.
也就是说，一个黑人家庭的收入是白人家庭的两倍，但很可能仍然生活在较贫困的社区。
That's according to a study from Brown University.
这是根据布朗大学的一项研究得出的结论。
Racial segregation and not just people's income is key to understanding where people live and why, though I'm not sure we're facing the reality of that today.
种族隔离而不仅仅是人们的收入是了解人们居住在哪里及其原因的关键，尽管我不确定我们今天是否面临现实。
This is L.B.
这是 L.B.
again, the housing tester for the Fair Housing Justice Center who kept telling the super that his wife really liked the building.
再次是公平住房正义中心的住房测试员，他不断地告诉退休人员，他的妻子非常喜欢这座建筑。
Especially, you know, it's 2013 now, and I could see that happening years and years and years ago, but it's still going on, and that's unfortunate.
特别是，你知道，现在已经是 2013 年了，我可以看到这种情况在很多年前就已经发生了，但它仍在继续，这是不幸的。
You've lived in New York since the '70s.
您从 70 年代起就住在纽约。
I mean, had you encountered discrimination just on your own, looking for apartments?
我的意思是，您在寻找公寓时是否遇到过歧视？
Not so much looking for apartments on my own, but in other areas of my life I've encountered that, but not so much looking for an apartment.
与其说是我自己找公寓，不如说是在我生活的其他方面也遇到过这种情况，但不是太在找公寓。
At least not that I was aware of.
至少我不知道。
You know, I've been told that things weren't available, but I just assumed that they weren't available.
你知道，我被告知有些东西不可用，但我只是假设它们不可用。
The point of the Fair Housing Act is not that every black person in America has to have a white neighbor, and anything short of that means they're being discriminated against, but look at where we are 45 years later.
《公平住房法案》的要点并不是美国的每个黑人都必须有一个白人邻居，否则就意味着他们受到歧视，但看看 45 年后我们的处境。
Some states have no housing testers at all.
有些州根本没有住房测试员。
They're basically on the honor system.
他们基本上都是荣誉系统。
In the places that do have it, most of the testing is done not by the government, but by advocacy organizations like the one L.B.
在有这种检测的地方，大部分检测不是由政府完成的，而是由 L.B. 等倡导组织完成的。
works for.
为.工作。
Which for New York City means its 8.3 million people are relying for most of their testing for compliance with the Fair Housing Act on a nonprofit organization and a group of actors hired part-time.
对于纽约市来说，这意味着该市 830 万人的大部分测试都依赖于非营利组织和一群兼职演员进行的《公平住房法》合规性测试。
Nancy Updike is one of the producers of our program.
南希·厄普代克是我们节目的制作人之一。
Nikole Hannah-Jones' investigative series on the history and enforcement of the fair housing laws is at ProPublica's website, propublica.org.
Nikole Hannah-Jones 关于公平住房法的历史和执行的调查系列可在 ProPublica 的网站 propublica.org 上找到。
Our program was produced today by our senior producer Julie Snyder, with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Sarah Koenig, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
我们的节目今天由我们的高级制片人 Julie Snyder 与 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Sarah Koenig、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Brian Reed、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Production help from Dana Chivvis.
Dana Chivvis 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our production manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson's our administrative assistant.
埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的行政助理。
Adrianne Mathiowetz runs our website.
阿德琳娜·马修韦茨 (Adrianne Mathiowetz) 负责运营我们的网站。
Research help from Michelle Harris and Julie Beer.
米歇尔·哈里斯和朱莉·比尔的研究帮助。
Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddis.
Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddis 提供音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
[致谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
Thanks as always to Torey Malatia-- you know, This American Life was on the air for like, I don't know, eight months, something like that, when one day, as the guy running our home station WBEZ, Torey gave me a phone call.
一如既往地感谢托里·马拉蒂亚——你知道，《美国生活》播出了大约八个月，我不知道，大概有八个月了，有一天，作为我们主站 WBEZ 的负责人，托里给我打了电话。
Um, we're starting to hear about some program you have, but we haven't given any clearance.
嗯，我们开始听说你们有一些计划，但我们还没有给予任何许可。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。