510: Fiasco! (2013) - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #510 | November 3, 2013 510: Fiasco!
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 510 集 | 2013 年 11 月 3 日 510：惨败！
(2013) Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
(2013) 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而生，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass What could be more American than the person who sees something they've never done before, dreams they could do it, goes after that dream?
序言：序言 艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 看到自己以前从未做过的事情，梦想自己能做到，并追求这个梦想，还有什么比这更美国化的呢？
Well, let's begin today with a woman who dreams of directing a play in the small town where she lives, a college town somewhere below the Mason-Dixon line in the hills of Appalachia, a town which will remain, for our purposes today, unnamed.
好吧，今天让我们从一位梦想在她所居住的小镇导演一部戏剧的女士开始，那是一座大学城，位于阿巴拉契亚山区梅森-迪克森线以下的某个地方，为了我们今天的目的，这个小镇将保持未命名。
I don't think she'd ever directed.
我不认为她曾经导演过。
And she claimed to have acted.
她声称已经采取行动。
And it was never really quite clear just what her credentials were.
她的资历到底是什么，从来都不是很清楚。
But she had managed to convince the local theater department of this college that she should direct a production of Peter Pan.
但她成功说服了该学院当地的戏剧系，让她执导一部《彼得潘》。
When he was in the 10th grade in 1973, Jack Hitt saw her production.
1973 年，当杰克·希特 (Jack Hitt) 读十年级时，他观看了她的作品。
And like everybody else in town, he heard about it for weeks beforehand.
和镇上的其他人一样，他提前几周就听说了这件事。
Slowly but surely, you began to hear sort of rumors about this production.
慢慢地，但可以肯定的是，你开始听到有关这部作品的一些谣言。
For example, I know that they had spent a lot of money renting these flying apparatuses out of New York.
例如，我知道他们花了很多钱从纽约租用这些飞行器。
And apparently, there's, like, one company and a handful of these apparatuses.
显然，有一家公司和一些这样的设备。
So to get them was a major coup.
所以得到它们是一个重大的政变。
This is a story not just of a mediocre play or a terrible play.
这不仅仅是一部平庸的戏剧或一部糟糕的戏剧的故事。
When it comes right down to it, it's not even a story about a play.
归根结底，这甚至不是一个关于戏剧的故事。
This is a story about a fiasco and about what makes a fiasco.
这是一个关于惨败以及导致惨败的原因的故事。
And one ingredient of many fiascoes is that great, massive, heart-wrenching chaos and failure are more likely to occur when great ambition has come into play, when plans are big, expectations great, hopes at their highest.
许多惨败的一个因素是，当雄心勃勃、计划宏大、期望很高、希望达到最高时，更可能发生巨大的、大规模的、令人心痛的混乱和失败。
And what you have to understand is that everybody in this sort of community understood that there was certainly a sort of air of everyone reaching beyond their own grasp.
你必须明白的是，在这样的社区中，每个人都明白，每个人都有一种超出自己掌控范围的氛围。
Every actor was in a role that was just a little too big for them, every aspect of the set and the crew.
每个演员所扮演的角色对于他们来说都有点太大了，无论是布景还是工作人员的各个方面。
And rumors had cooked around.
谣言四起。
There was this huge crew.
有这么庞大的工作人员。
There were lots of things being painted.
有很多东西被画了。
See, but this, in fact, is one of the criteria for greatness, that everyone is just about to reach just beyond their grasp, because that is when greatness can occur.
你看，这实际上是伟大的标准之一，每个人都即将达到他们力所能及的程度，因为那时伟大就会发生。
That's right.
这是正确的。
That's right.
这是正确的。
And maybe greatness could have occurred.
也许伟大的事情就会发生。
Well, today on our program, what happens when greatness does not occur.
好吧，今天在我们的节目中，当伟大没有发生时会发生什么。
What happens, in fact, when fumble leads to error leads to mishap, and before you know it, you have left the realm of ordinary mistake and chaos, and you have entered into the more ethereal, specialized realm of fiasco.
事实上，当失误导致错误导致灾难时，在你意识到之前，你已经离开了普通错误和混乱的领域，而进入了更空灵、更专业的惨败领域。
Today's show, Fiascoes, a philosophical inquiry-- perhaps the first ever, as far as we know-- into what makes a fiasco, what takes our ordinary lives the extra distance into fiasco.
今天的节目《惨败》是一场哲学探究——据我们所知，这也许是有史以来第一次——探究是什么造成了惨败，是什么让我们的日常生活进一步走向惨败。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program in four acts.
今天的节目共四幕。
Act One, Opening Night.
第一幕，开幕之夜。
Act Two, a fiasco involving a village, marauding Visigoths, a 1,9000-pound brass cauldron, and some oil.
第二幕，一场惨败，涉及一个村庄、劫掠的西哥特人、一个 1,9000 磅重的黄铜大锅和一些石油。
Don't even ask.
连问都别问。
Act Three, Squirrel Cop, in which a bushy-tailed visitor threatens to take down two police officers, a married couple, a couch, and a house.
第三幕《松鼠警察》中，一名毛茸茸的访客威胁要打倒两名警察、一对已婚夫妇、一张沙发和一座房子。
Act Four, Fiascoes as a Force for Good in this World.
第四幕，惨败是这个世界的正义力量。
There is much, much to learn about fiascoes in this hour.
在这一个小时里，关于惨败，有很多很多值得学习的地方。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
We begin our show with this true fable of Peter Pan in Act One, Opening Night.
我们以第一幕开幕之夜中彼得潘的真实寓言开始我们的演出。
Opening night comes, and, well, almost everybody in the area, in the 10-mile radius of this theater, knows somebody in this production.
首映之夜到来了，好吧，在这个剧院方圆 10 英里的地区，几乎每个人都认识这部作品中的某个人。
So the place is pretty much packed.
所以这个地方几乎挤满了人。
And I don't know if you remember the opening moment of Peter Pan, but it's the three little kids sleeping in their bed.
我不知道你是否还记得《彼得潘》的开场时刻，三个小孩子睡在床上。
And Peter Pan comes flying in the window.
彼得潘从窗户飞了进来。
And in this particular production, there's a big bed with all the three kids in it.
在这部特别的作品中，有一张大床，三个孩子都在上面。
And off to the left, I remember, is a big, huge wardrobe.
我记得左边有一个很大很大的衣柜。
And there's a large window there, and a little bureau.
那里有一扇大窗户，还有一个小衣柜。
And Peter Pan comes in and has the little speech where he says, "Anybody can fly.
彼得·潘进来发表了简短的演讲，他说：“任何人都会飞。
Why, with just a little magic dust, one can fly." And Peter Pan sprinkles this magic dust in the air.
为什么，只要一点点魔尘，就能飞起来。”彼得潘将这种神奇的灰尘撒在空气中。
And sure enough, the kids suddenly just lurch into the air.
果然，孩子们突然跌倒在空中。
And it becomes clear right away that the people that they've hired to run these flying apparatuses really aren't quite clear on how they actually work.
很明显，他们雇佣来运行这些飞行器的人实际上并不太清楚它们实际上是如何工作的。
So instead of the kids sailing gracefully to and fro, they hang in the air like puppets, just dangling there and getting jerked up an inch or two or back and forth.
因此，孩子们不再优雅地来回航行，而是像木偶一样悬挂在空中，只是悬在那里，被猛拉一两英寸或来回。
And then sometimes they're just stationary?
有时它们只是静止的？
And then several of them start to circumscribe these circles in the air, where it's clear that the people running the machines have just set them off on these oval courses that spiral farther and farther out.
然后，其中一些开始在空中划出这些圆圈，很明显，操作机器的人刚刚将它们引向了这些椭圆形的路线，并越来越远。
And if you're sitting in the audience, there was clearly a sense of fear on the faces of these people.
而如果你坐在观众席上，这些人的脸上显然都流露出恐惧的感觉。
Of the actors?
演员的？
Jack Hitt The actors.
杰克·希特 演员。
The actors actually-- you could sense their lack of confidence, shall we say, in the people running the machines in the back.
事实上，你可以从后面操作机器的人身上感觉到他们缺乏信心。
Wait, wait.
等等，等等。
And the audience reaction to this point is just-- are they laughing?
观众对此的反应只是——他们在笑吗？
No one is laughing.
没有人在笑。
This is one of the great things about audiences, especially in a live theater production, is that they're very forgiving.
这是观众的伟大之处之一，尤其是在现场戏剧制作中，他们非常宽容。
They want the show to work.
他们希望节目能够成功。
And so everyone is gripping their chair a little tightly.
所以每个人都紧紧地抓着椅子。
We feel for them.
我们同情他们。
They're up there.
他们在上面。
They're embarrassing themselves for us.
他们在为我们丢脸。
And so the audience, I think, was very forgiving and very understanding of this moment.
所以我认为观众对这一刻非常宽容和理解。
But there was one moment in this first opening scene that put the audience on notice.
但在第一个开场场景中，有一个时刻引起了观众的注意。
And that's when, as the kids are jerking up and down and swinging back and forth and going around in these ovals, at one point, the littlest one, the little boy, is being flung around a little too hard.
就在那时，当孩子们上下猛烈地上下摆动、来回摆动并在这些椭圆形中转来转去时，在某一时刻，最小的那个小男孩被猛烈地抛来抛去。
Well, he has the least mass to resist whatever the machinery is doing to him.
好吧，他的质量最小，无法抵抗机器对他所做的任何事情。
And so he's flying around in this circle.
于是他就在这个圈子里飞来飞去。
And the audience sees this coming.
观众看到了这一点。
And there's a real sense of pain and gripping of the chair and white knuckle-ness as the kid suddenly does just an enormous splat into the wardrobe.
当孩子突然猛地一摔进衣柜时，椅子就会被抓住，指关节发白，真是一种痛苦的感觉。
And it's clear that he's hurt, and he comes off of it a little dazed.
很明显他受伤了，而且他在受伤后有点茫然。
Then, of course, he's jerked up in the air a little bit, and often a little too high, so that he's suddenly in the workings.
然后，当然，他会在空中稍微抬起一点，而且通常有点太高，这样他就会突然开始工作。
He left the stage itself.
他离开了舞台。
He's now up there with the lights.
他现在就在灯火通明的地方。
Then, all of a sudden he would just plummet back down to the stage and be caught up just before he hit the floor.
然后，突然间，他会跌落到舞台上，然后在落地之前被抓住。
It was hard to watch, because, as you can tell, it's an incredibly funny moment, but like I say, the audience was still in this very forgiving mode.
这很难看，因为，正如你所知，这是一个非常有趣的时刻，但就像我说的，观众仍然处于这种非常宽容的模式。
And no one said a word.
没有人说一句话。
We just all sat there, holding our breath.
我们都坐在那里，屏住呼吸。
And there's that weird tension of being in the audience, thinking, oh, oh my goodness.
坐在观众席上有一种奇怪的紧张感，心想，哦，哦，天哪。
They have gotten off to a very bad start.
他们的开局非常糟糕。
Oh, this is not good.
哦，这可不好。
And we feel for them.
我们对他们感同身受。
May I just interrupt for just a moment to just say, now at this point-- because after all, we are not just joined here together on the radio, you and I today, to laugh at the foibles of the unfortunate.
请允许我打断一下，现在就在这一点上——因为毕竟，我们今天不仅仅是在广播中聚集在一起，嘲笑不幸者的缺点。
No, no. We're here to enumerate the qualities of a fiasco.
不，不。我们来这里是为了列举一场惨败的品质。
At this point, we are not yet in the territory of fiasco.
目前，我们还没有陷入惨败的境地。
No. No, because, like I say, audiences are forgiving.
不，不，因为正如我所说，观众是宽容的。
One or two mistakes, even big ones like this, they are going to let that ride.
一两个错误，即使是像这样的大错误，他们也会放任不管。
Yes, they are.
是的，他们是。
Jack Hitt We did.
杰克·希特 我们做到了。
We did.
我们做到了。
We were very good.
我们都很好。
So we are not yet at fiasco.
所以我们还没有遭遇惨败。
We are at a normal level of mishap.
我们处于正常的事故水平。
Right.
正确的。
What happens immediately after this, they disappear to Never Never Land.
紧接着发生的事情是，他们消失到梦幻岛。
And if you remember, the stage goes dark.
如果你还记得的话，舞台就黑了。
And then when the lights come up, there's Captain Hook.
当灯光亮起时，胡克船长就出现了。
And he's giving his first opening soliloquy about how evil he is and what a menace he is and how he harms people and hates children.
他第一次进行了开场独白，讲述了他是多么邪恶，他是一个多么大的威胁，以及他如何伤害人们和仇恨儿童。
It's all that good stuff.
这都是好东西。
And so Captain Hook is out there, and he looks great.
所以胡克船长就在那里，他看起来很棒。
He's got one of those big, old, fat hats and this great hook and these wild-looking boots and everything.
他有一顶又大又旧又肥的帽子，还有这个大钩子和这些看起来狂野的靴子等等。
And people are feeling more confident.
人们感觉更加自信。
Something's happening.
有事发生了。
It's a good sign.
这是一个好兆头。
It's a good sign.
这是一个好兆头。
And he's in charge.
他负责。
This guy, he's got a bad mustache, and he is certainly evil.
这个家伙，他的胡子很糟糕，他肯定是邪恶的。
And the audience is totally in his pocket.
而观众完全在他的口袋里。
He's speaking away and gesturing wildly and going on and on about how bad he is.
他不停地说话，疯狂地打手势，不停地说他有多糟糕。
And then at a certain point, as he gestures, his hook and the entire black casing up to his elbow flings off of his hand and flies into the audience and punches an old lady in the gut.
然后在某个时刻，当他做出手势时，他的钩子和直到肘部的整个黑色外壳从他的手上甩下来，飞到观众席上，击中了一位老太太的腹部。
He is bad.
他很糟糕。
Jack Hitt He is very bad.
杰克·希特 他很坏。
He had the worst ad lib I've ever heard.
他的即兴表演是我听过的最糟糕的。
I mean, what do you say at that point?
我的意思是，此时你会说什么？
Because, of course, his hand is now nakedly exposed to the audience.
当然，因为他的手现在赤裸裸地暴露在观众面前。
Very, very hard.
非常非常难。
Ira Glass If the very premise of your character is that you have a hook, your name is Captain Hook, literally all that's going to happen for the rest of the show is people are going to refer to you by that hook.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 如果你的角色的前提是你有一个钩子，那么你的名字是胡克船长，从字面上看，在节目的其余部分中将发生的所有事情就是人们会用那个钩子来指代你。
Your entire motivation as a character is the fact that your arm was eaten off by an alligator and that you have to have a hook.
作为一个角色，你的全部动机就是你的手臂被鳄鱼吃掉了，而你必须有一个钩子。
Right.
正确的。
And now, suddenly, you have no hook.
而现在，突然之间，你就没有了钩子。
In fact, you have five fingers on a hand.
事实上，你的手上有五个手指。
As if a miracle by the Lord.
仿佛是主的奇迹。
Jack Hitt Captain Hook said, "You know, they just don't make those hooks like they used to." That was actually the ad lib.
杰克·希特（Jack Hitt）胡克船长说：“你知道，他们只是不再像以前那样制作这些钩子了。”这实际上是即兴表演。
I will never forget it.
我永远不会忘记它。
Then the lights come up, and we are in Never Never Land.
然后灯亮了，我们就到了梦幻岛。
In Act Two.
在第二幕中。
Jack Hitt Yeah, this is Act Two.
杰克·希特 是的，这是第二幕。
And Captain Hook might have stood in front of the set, but you didn't really see it, because he spoke from shadow.
胡克船长可能站在布景前面，但你并没有真正看到它，因为他在阴影中说话。
And now the lights come up.
现在灯亮了。
And this is supposed to be a very dramatic moment.
这应该是一个非常戏剧性的时刻。
The rumors of all this crew and the painting and everything that was going on and all this construction all worked towards this one moment, because when the lights came up, here was Never Never Land, this sort of psychedelic set.
所有工作人员的谣言、绘画以及正在发生的一切和所有这些建设都为了这一刻而努力，因为当灯光亮起时，这里就是梦幻岛，这种迷幻的布景。
There were papier-mache mushrooms everywhere of different sizes.
到处都是大小不一的纸型蘑菇。
It was absolutely wonderful and surreal.
这绝对是美妙而超现实的。
And there's nobody there.
而且那里没有人。
And then from the upper rafters of stage right, suddenly the kids and Peter Pan appear.
然后，从舞台右侧的上椽子上，孩子们和彼得潘突然出现了。
Flying.
飞行。
Jack Hitt Flying.
杰克·希特飞翔。
They're flying.
他们在飞。
And their landing occurs rather rapidly, at an angle of about 45 degrees to the stage.
他们的着陆速度相当快，与舞台成大约 45 度角。
They come down basically like, I don't know, lead sinkers on a line, and crash to the floor, and then are just dragged across the floor like mops and wipe out all of the mushrooms.
它们基本上就像，我不知道，铅坠落在一条线上，然后坠落到地板上，然后像拖把一样被拖过地板，消灭所有蘑菇。
And so now, have we arrived at a turning point in our fiasco?
那么现在，我们的惨败已经到了转折点了吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, it's clear now that the audience is giving way.
是的，现在很明显观众已经让路了。
Something has been lost.
有些东西丢失了。
Some sense of decorum, that little bit of forgiveness that the audience has for the actors--
某种礼仪感，观众对演员的一点点宽容——
And empathy.
和同理心。
Jack Hitt --and empathy.
杰克·希特——还有同理心。
It's beginning to dissipate.
它开始消散。
Well, there was a split in the audience.
好吧，观众中出现了分歧。
The younger people, who were the least forgiving, they started to go first.
最不宽容的年轻人开始先走。
OK, so the high school students, a couple of college students, maybe, they started to laugh out loud.
好吧，高中生，也许还有几个大学生，他们开始大声笑起来。
And I'll be honest, Ira, I might have been one of those first people to laugh.
老实说，艾拉，我可能是最先笑的人之一。
I was in the 10th grade.
我当时上十年级。
It was hard to not laugh at this thing.
看到这件事很难不笑。
But then, whatever restraint that the audience had, it just evaporated at this point, because there were a number of things that happened in quick succession that just made it impossible to hold any sense of decorum.
但随后，无论观众有多么的克制，在这一点上都烟消云散了，因为接连发生的一些事情，让他们根本无法保持任何礼仪。
Which are?
哪些是？
Jack Hitt For example, Tinker Bell appears for the first time around this moment.
例如，杰克·希特（Jack Hitt）在此时首次出现了小叮当（Tinker Bell）。
And Tinker Bell is essentially a light bulb on an extension cord.
小叮当本质上是一个延长线上的灯泡。
What?
什么？
Jack Hitt Yeah.
杰克·希特 是的。
And this was the director's idea of being raw, being very modern.
这就是导演的原始理念，非常现代。
Tinker Bell was just going to be this literal light bulb, dangling from an extension cord.
小叮当只是一个字面上的灯泡，挂在一根延长线上。
Whereas, in other productions, what they'll do is that someone will shine a light.
而在其他作品中，他们要做的就是有人发出光芒。
A beam of focused light.
一束聚焦的光束。
And then that pinprick of light is supposed to be Tinker Bell.
然后那个小光点应该是小叮当。
That's right, or something like that, or nothing at all, and people just address the invisible sprite.
是的，或者类似的东西，或者什么都没有，人们只是解决看不见的精灵。
Well, that did not happen in this case.
好吧，在本例中并没有发生这种情况。
This bulb comes just dangling down and sort of hangs around this naked--
这个灯泡只是晃来晃去，有点裸露地挂在周围——
A bare light bulb?
一个裸露的灯泡？
Jack Hitt --white bulb just hangs around.
杰克·希特——白色灯泡一直挂在周围。
And people are talking to it.
人们正在与之交谈。
And I think Tinker Bell must have had an appearance in the first act.
我认为小叮当一定在第一幕中出现过。
But it was somewhere in here that people just started laughing at this.
但正是在这里的某个地方，人们才开始嘲笑这一点。
Then another thing that happened was, later on in this scene, if you remember, Wendy gets trapped on an island.
然后发生的另一件事是，在这个场景的后面，如果你还记得的话，温迪被困在一个岛上。
And she spots a kite that's flying by.
她发现一只风筝飞过。
And she's supposed to grab it and attach it to her back and fly off.
她应该抓住它并将其挂在背上然后飞走。
Well, of course, the kite is attached to the flying apparatus line.
嗯，当然，风筝是连接在飞行器线上的。
And it gets closer and closer to her.
而且距离她也越来越近了。
She's standing on this little papier-mache hill.
她站在这座纸型小山上。
But the flying apparatus people can't quite get it close enough to her to reach.
但人们无法将飞行器拉得离她足够近，无法触及。
So she has to step out into the waters that she's just told us is filled with crocodiles to grab it.
所以她必须走进她刚刚告诉我们充满鳄鱼的水域才能抓住它。
She finally gets the kite, and when she yanks on it, it pops off the flying apparatus.
她终于拿到了风筝，当她猛拉风筝时，风筝就从飞行装置上弹出了。
And the hook goes zinging up into the lights and catches.
然后钩子就会上升到灯光下并被钩住。
So now there is this big loop of wire hanging in front of the stage.
现在舞台前面挂着一个大线圈。
And there's Wendy, holding the kite.
温迪拿着风筝。
And she ad libbed as best she could, as I remember.
我记得她尽可能地即兴发挥。
She said, "On second thought, maybe I can swim." And with that, she walked off the stage, motioning her arms like you would do the swim, the dance, in 1965.
她说：“转念一想，也许我会游泳。”说完，她走下舞台，挥动手臂，就像 1965 年游泳、跳舞一样。
So she does that.
所以她就这么做了。
At this point, the actors are just falling apart.
到了这一步，演员们就崩溃了。
They are so frightened of the audience.
他们太害怕观众了。
There are just belly laughs rolling up to the stage from the audience.
观众席上只剩下捧腹大笑。
People are howling with laughter at every mistake.
人们对每一个错误都会哈哈大笑。
And now any small mistake just takes on these-- any instigation for laughter is just enough of for this audience.
现在，任何小错误都会承担这些——任何煽动笑声对于观众来说都足够了。
And now the old people have given it up.
现在老人家已经放弃了。
Everyone has quit being nice.
每个人都不再友善了。
Now there's just this kind of frightening roar that comes from the audience every time there's a mistake.
现在，每当出现错误时，观众都会发出这种可怕的吼叫声。
Well, what happened?
嗯，发生了什么事？
At some point the audience turned and realized, oh wait.
在某个时刻，观众转过身来意识到，哦等等。
I realize what's going on here.
我意识到这里发生了什么事。
This is a fiasco.
这是一场惨败。
Yeah.
是的。
This is a fiasco.
这是一场惨败。
And what's really interesting about a fiasco is that once it starts to tumble down, the audience wants to push it further along.
一场惨败的真正有趣之处在于，一旦它开始崩溃，观众就会想把它推得更远。
Oh, yeah.
哦，是的。
Ira Glass If the play proceeded perfectly, they would be disappointed.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 如果比赛进展顺利，他们会感到失望。
Oh, it would have been a grave disappointment had not been just one more mistake after another, one more embarrassment after another.
哦，如果不是一个又一个错误、一个又一个尴尬，那就太令人失望了。
Now the reason they're there is to chronicle these embarrassments.
现在他们来这里的原因是为了记录这些尴尬。
This is why I have remembered this play for 25 years.
这就是为什么我25年来一直记得这部戏。
Towards Act Three, Ira, the director had decided that she wanted to break down the fourth wall.
在第三幕中，导演决定让艾拉打破第四堵墙。
This was cutting-edge theater, as far as she was concerned.
对她来说，这是最前沿的戏剧。
Before you do this, I just want to explain.
在你这样做之前，我只想解释一下。
When we say breaking down the fourth wall, what we mean is the wall between the actors and the audience.
当我们说打破第四堵墙时，我们指的是演员和观众之间的墙。
Usually it's impermeable, but then there came a point in the late '60s, early '70s, where a lot of theaters-- basically, the actors would come out into the audience.
通常它是不可渗透的，但后来到了 60 年代末、70 年代初，很多剧院——基本上，演员都会出现在观众面前。
That's right, and interact with the audience and break down that wall.
没错，与观众互动，打破那堵墙。
So the idea being that you would get more in touch with the dramatic sense and the reality of what was happening.
所以我们的想法是，你会更多地接触到正在发生的事情的戏剧性和现实性。
Anyway, so in this particular scene, what was going to happen was that the Indians were going to throw rope ladders down from the balcony and climb down these rope ladders into the audience and move among the audience in their very scary, savage way and frighten us.
无论如何，在这个特定的场景中，将要发生的事情是，印第安人将从阳台上扔下绳梯，然后顺着这些绳梯爬到观众席上，以他们非常可怕、野蛮的方式在观众席间移动，吓唬我们。
Anyway, I know about this scene, because my friend David, who I went to high school with, was in it.
无论如何，我知道这个场景，因为我高中时的朋友大卫也在其中。
So when David was climbing over the top of this balcony to climb down the rope, he lost his footing and fell to the floor from the balcony, a distance of about 15 to 20 feet.
因此，当大卫爬过这个阳台顶部准备顺着绳子爬下来时，他失去了立足点，从阳台上摔到了地板上，距离大约有15到20英尺。
That's horrible.
太可怕了。
Jack Hitt Yeah.
杰克·希特 是的。
And he landed on both of his feet and sprained both of his ankles and, of course, curled into a fetal position and began to cry.
他双脚着地，扭伤了双脚踝，当然，他蜷缩成胎儿的姿势，开始哭泣。
He was really, really hurt.
他真的非常非常受伤。
Now, to appreciate the horrible moment I'm now describing, also understand that it's a Friday night.
现在，为了体会我现在描述的可怕时刻，也要明白这是一个星期五晚上。
We are in a college town.
我们在一个大学城。
And there is a volunteer fire and ambulance department.
还有一个志愿消防和救护部门。
And in order to summon the rescuers from wherever they are, an alarm is sounded that can be heard for five miles.
为了召唤救援人员，无论他们身在何处，都会发出警报，五英里外都能听到。
That alarm is located right over this theater.
那个警报器就位于这个剧院的正上方。
So the alarm goes off, OK?
那么闹钟就响了，好吗？
This is an air raid siren.
这是空袭警报。
It is so loud, you can put your fingers in your ear, and it's still hurting your ears.
声音太大了，你可以把手指放进耳朵里，耳朵还是疼。
We're right under it.
我们就在它下面。
It can be heard for five miles.
五英里之外都能听到。
And then, of course, three minutes later, busting through the door of the theater are these 15 firemen who are in boots, hats.
当然，三分钟后，这 15 名穿着靴子、戴着帽子的消防员冲进了剧院的门。
They've got hoses.
他们有软管。
They don't know what it is.
他们不知道那是什么。
All they know is that they've been sent out on a call.
他们只知道他们被派去接电话了。
And to add to the chaos, the director, of course, has flogged the actors that the show must go on.
当然，为了增加混乱，导演还鞭打了演员，让演出必须继续进行。
No matter what.
无论。
Jack Hitt No matter what.
杰克·希特 不管怎样。
So while all of this is happening-- and several people are attending to David.
因此，当这一切发生时，有几个人正在照顾大卫。
And other people have just now decided that since the firemen are here, he's going to be fine.
其他人刚刚决定，既然消防员在这里，他就会没事的。
They can start laughing.
他们可以开始大笑。
And now the audience has just completely lost control.
而现在观众完全失去了控制。
People are standing up in their seats and shouting for more.
人们从座位上站起来，呼喊着要求更多。
They want blood.
他们想要血。
At this point, people are actually injured in the production.
此时，人实际上是在生产中受伤的。
And they want more.
他们想要更多。
Somehow, that's how this entire play ended.
不知何故，整部剧就这样结束了。
What's interesting about that this as a fiasco, I feel like the thing it makes me understand about fiascoes, is that the fiasco itself is an altered state.
有趣的是，这是一场惨败，我觉得它让我理解惨败，那就是惨败本身就是一种改变的状态。
That is, all the normal rules are off.
也就是说，所有正常的规则都被取消了。
You have left the normal rules of how the audience is going to interact with the actors.
你已经离开了观众与演员互动的正常规则。
Right.
正确的。
I've never seen a production like this.
我从未见过这样的制作。
And I've never seen an audience collapse like this.
我从来没有见过观众像这样崩溃过。
See, but I wonder, when you think about what people go to theater for, what kind of release people want, people want an experience that will take them out of themselves.
瞧，但我想知道，当你想到人们去剧院的目的是什么，人们想要什么样的释放时，人们想要一种能让他们摆脱自我的体验。
We all want an experience that would take us out of ourselves and into another place in another reality.
我们都希望有一种体验能够带我们走出自我，进入另一个现实的另一个地方。
And it sounds like this production, even though it was a fiasco-- in fact, because it was a fiasco-- was more successful at that than any conventional play could be.
听起来这部作品虽然是一场惨败——事实上，因为它是一场惨败——但在这方面比任何传统戏剧都更成功。
Well, see, I have to disagree with you there.
好吧，你看，我不同意你的观点。
I think the old theater critics, the ancients, would say that the reason you go to the theater and to see a great production is to be, I think the word these used to use is "transported." The idea being that you would be lifted away from your animal nature and into these higher, more spiritual realms, or get in touch with these greater, tragic emotions, right?
我认为古老的戏剧评论家、古人会说，你去剧院观看一部伟大作品的原因是，我认为这些人过去使用的词是“传送”。这个想法是，你会脱离你的动物本性，进入这些更高、更精神的领域，或者接触到这些更伟大、悲剧性的情感，对吗？
But of course, what happened here was the exact opposite.
但当然，这里发生的情况恰恰相反。
We got transported directly in touch with our animal being.
我们直接接触了我们的动物。
Our baser selves.
我们卑鄙的自己。
Jack Hitt Right.
杰克·希特 对。
But that's almost as rare, if not more so, than a great production.
但这几乎和伟大的作品一样罕见，甚至更罕见。
Jack Hitt.
杰克·希特.
He normally writes for The New York Times Magazine and The New Yorker.
他通常为《纽约时报》杂志和《纽约客》撰稿。
[MUSIC - "I WON'T GROW UP" BY RICKIE LEE JONES]
[音乐 - 瑞奇·李·琼斯的《我不会长大》]
Act Two, What We Wanted To Do.
第二幕，我们想做的事。
With some fiascoes, all social order breaks down.
随着一些惨败，所有的社会秩序都会崩溃。
With others, a thing that you're trying to create simply refuses to be created.
对于其他人来说，你试图创造的东西只是拒绝被创造。
This next fiasco falls into that second category.
接下来的惨败属于第二类。
Ron Carlson wrote this story.
罗恩·卡尔森写了这个故事。
Jeff Dorchen reads it.
杰夫·多尔钦（Jeff Dorchen）读了它。
What we wanted to do was spill boiling oil onto the heads of our enemies as they attempted to bang down the gates of our village.
我们想做的就是当敌人试图撞破我们村庄的大门时，将滚烫的油泼到他们的头上。
But, as everyone now knows, we had some problems, primarily technical problems, that prevented us from doing what we wanted to do the way we had hoped to do it.
但是，众所周知，我们遇到了一些问题，主要是技术问题，使我们无法按照我们希望的方式做我们想做的事情。
What we're asking for today is another chance.
我们今天所要求的是另一个机会。
There has been so much media attention to this boiling oil issue that it is time to clear the air.
媒体对沸油问题的关注如此之多，是时候澄清一下了。
There's a great deal of pressure to dismantle the system we have in place and bring the oil down off the roof.
拆除我们现有的系统并将石油从屋顶上引下来，面临着巨大的压力。
This would be a mistake.
这将是一个错误。
Yes, there were problems last month during the Visigoth raid.
是的，上个月西哥特人突袭期间出现了问题。
But as I will note, these are easily remedied.
但正如我要指出的，这些问题很容易解决。
From its inception, I have been intimately involved with the boiling oil project-- research, development, physical deployment.
从一开始，我就一直密切参与沸油项目——研究、开发、物理部署。
I also happened to be team leader on the roof last month when we had occasion to try the system during the Visigoth attack about which so much has been written.
上个月，我也碰巧是屋顶上的团队领导，当时我们有机会在西哥特人攻击期间尝试该系统，对此已经有很多文章介绍了。
First, the very concept of oil on the roof upset many of our villagers.
首先，屋顶上有石油的概念本身就让我们许多村民感到不安。
Granted, it is exotic.
当然，它是异国情调的。
But all great ideas seem strange at first.
但所有伟大的想法一开始看起来都很奇怪。
When our researchers realize we could position a cauldron 200 feet directly above our main portals, they began to see the possibilities of the greatest strategic defense system in the history of mankind.
当我们的研究人员意识到我们可以在主入口正上方 200 英尺处放置一个大锅时，他们开始看到人类历史上最伟大的战略防御系统的可能性。
But at every turn we've met problems that our researchers could not, despite their intelligence and intuition, have foreseen.
但在每一个转折点，我们都会遇到我们的研究人员尽管拥有智慧和直觉却无法预见的问题。
For instance, how were we to get a 1,9000-pound brass cauldron onto the roof?
例如，我们如何将一个 1,9000 磅重的黄铜大锅搬到屋顶上？
In the end, the cauldron was raised to the roof by means of a custom-designed net and petard under less than ideal conditions.
最终，在不太理想的条件下，通过定制设计的网和石板将大锅升到了屋顶。
The Retrogoths and the Nilogoths plundered our village almost incessantly during the cauldron's four-month ascent.
在大锅上升的四个月期间，逆哥特人和尼洛戈特人几乎不间断地掠夺我们的村庄。
The cauldron's arrival on the roof was quite a moment.
大锅到达屋顶的那一刻真是太棒了。
I remember it well.
我记得很清楚。
We stood by that gleaming symbol of our impending safety, a bright brass beacon to the world that we were not going to take it anymore.
我们站在那闪烁着光芒的象征旁边，象征着我们即将安全，这是一座明亮的黄铜灯塔，向世界表明我们不会再忍受它了。
The wind carried up to us the cries of villagers being carried away by either the Maxigoths or the Minigoths.
风把村民的喊叫声带到了我们身边，他们要么被麦克哥特人，要么被迷你哥特人带走。
But there we stood.
但我们站在那里。
As I felt the wind in my hair and watched the sporadic procession of home furnishings being carried out of our violated gates, I knew we were perched on the edge of a new epoch.
当我感觉到风吹过我的头发，看着零星的家具从我们被侵犯的大门中搬出时，我知道我们正处于一个新时代的边缘。
Well, there was some excitement.
嗯，心里有些兴奋。
We began at once.
我们立即开始。
We started a fire under the cauldron.
我们在大锅下面生了火。
And we knew we would all soon be safe.
我们知道我们很快就会安全。
At that point, I made a mistake, which I now readily admit.
那时我犯了一个错误，现在我很乐意承认。
In the utter ebullience of the moment, I called down.
在这一刻的热烈气氛中，我向楼下喊了电话。
I did not scream maniacally, as was reported.
我并没有像报道中那样疯狂地尖叫。
I called down that it would not be long.
我打电话说不会太久。
And I probably shouldn't have, because it may have led some of our citizenry to lower their guard.
我可能不应该这样做，因为这可能会导致我们的一些公民放松警惕。
It was a mistake.
这是一个错误。
I admit it.
我承认。
There were, as we found almost immediately, still some bugs to be worked out of the program.
正如我们几乎立即发现的那样，该程序仍然存在一些错误需要解决。
For instance, there had never been a fire on top of the entry tower before.
例如，入口塔顶以前从未发生过火灾。
And yes, as everyone is aware, we had to spend more time than we really wanted containing the blaze, fueled as it was by the fresh high winds and the tower's wooden shingles.
是的，正如每个人都知道的那样，我们不得不花费比我们真正想要的更多的时间来控制火势，因为新鲜的强风和塔楼的木瓦助长了火势。
I hasten to add that the damage was moderate, as moderate as a four-hour fire could be.
我赶紧补充说，损失是中等的，就像四小时的火灾一样中等。
But throughout this relentless series of setbacks, pitfalls, and rooftop fires, there has been a hard core of us absolutely dedicated to doing what we wanted to do, to splash scalding oil onto intruders as they pried or battered, yet again, at our old damaged gates.
但在这一系列无情的挫折、陷阱和屋顶火灾中，我们有一个坚定的核心，绝对致力于做我们想做的事情，当入侵者再次撬动或殴打我们受损的旧大门时，向他们泼滚烫的油。
It was a little fire on the rooftop.
屋顶上着了小火。
It was of no consequence, a fribble, a tiny obstacle to be stepped over with an easy stride.
这并不重要，只是一次轻举妄动，一个可以轻松跨过的小障碍。
Were we tired?
我们累了吗？
Were we dirty?
我们脏了吗？
Were some of us burned and cranky?
我们中的一些人是否被烧伤并且脾气暴躁？
No matter.
不管。
We were committed.
我们很坚定。
And so the next day, the first quiet day we'd had in this village in months, that same sooty cadre stood in the warm ashes high above the entry steps and tried again.
第二天，这是几个月来我们在这个村子里度过的第一个安静的日子，那个黑乎乎的干部站在入口台阶上方温暖的灰烬中，再次尝试。
We knew, as we know right now, that our enemies are manifold and voracious and generally rude and persistent.
我们知道，正如我们现在所知道的那样，我们的敌人是多种多样的、贪婪的，而且通常是粗鲁和顽固的。
And we wanted to be ready.
我们希望做好准备。
But tell me this.
但告诉我这个。
Where does one find out how soon before an enemy attack to put the oil on to boil?
在哪里可以知道敌人进攻前多久将油烧开？
Does anyone know?
有谁知道吗？
Let me assure you, it is not in any book.
我向你保证，任何书上都没有这样的内容。
We were writing the book.
我们正在写这本书。
We were vigilant.
我们保持警惕。
We squinted at the horizon all day long.
我们整天眯着眼睛望着地平线。
And when we first saw the dust in the foothills, we fired our cauldron, using wood that had been elevated through the night in woven baskets.
当我们第一次看到山麓的灰尘时，我们用编织篮中连夜升起的木材点燃了大锅。
Even speaking about it here today, I can feel the excitement stirring in my heart.
今天讲到这里，我仍能感受到内心的激动。
The orange flames licked the sides of the brass container hungrily, as if in concert with our own desperate desire for security and revenge.
橙色的火焰贪婪地舔舐着黄铜容器的侧面，仿佛与我们对安全和复仇的绝望渴望相一致。
In the distance, I could see the phalanx of Visigoths marching toward us like a warship through a sea of dust.
远处，我可以看到西哥特人的方阵像一艘穿过尘海的战船向我们驶来。
And in my soul, I pitied them and the end toward which they so steadfastly hastened.
在我的灵魂里，我同情他们以及他们如此坚定地加速实现的目标。
They seemed the very incarnation of mistake, their dreams of a day abusing our friends and families and of petty arson and lewd public behavior about to be extinguished in one gorgeous wash of searing oil.
他们似乎就是错误的化身，他们梦想着有一天虐待我们的朋友和家人，以及轻微的纵火和猥亵的公共行为，这些行为即将被一抹华丽的灼热油浇灭。
I was beside myself.
我简直要疯了。
It is important to know now that everyone on the roof that day exhibited orderly and methodical behavior.
现在重要的是要知道那天屋顶上的每个人都表现出了有序和有条理的行为。
There was no wild screaming or cursing or even the kind of sarcastic chuckling you might expect in those about to enjoy a well-deserved and long-delayed victory.
没有疯狂的尖叫或咒骂，甚至没有你可能期望的那些即将享受一场当之无愧且拖延已久的胜利的人的那种讽刺性的笑声。
The problems of the day were not attributable to inappropriate deportment.
当天的问题并不是由于行为不当造成的。
My staff was good.
我的员工很好。
It was when the Visigoths had approached close enough that we could see their cruel eyes and we could read their savage and misspelled tattoos that I realized our error.
当西哥特人走得足够近，我们可以看到他们残酷的眼睛，我们可以读懂他们野蛮且拼写错误的纹身时，我意识到我们的错误。
At that time, I put my hand on the smooth side of our beautiful cauldron and found it only vaguely warm, lukewarm, tepid.
那时，我把手放在我们美丽的大锅光滑的一面上，发现它只是隐约温暖，不冷不热，不温不火。
We had not known then what we now know.
我们当时还不知道现在所知道的事情。
We need to put the oil on soon.
我们需要尽快加油。
It was my decision and my decision alone to do what we did, and that was to pour the warm oil on our enemies as they milled about the front gates, hammering at it with their truncheons.
这是我的决定，也是我一个人的决定，我们所做的事情就是把温热的油倒在我们的敌人身上，因为他们在前门周围转来转去，用警棍敲打着他们。
Now, this is where my report diverges from so many of the popular accounts.
现在，这就是我的报告与许多受欢迎的说法不同的地方。
We have heard it said that the warm oil served as a stimulant to the attack that followed, the attack I alluded to earlier, in which the criminal activity seemed even more animated than usual in the minds of some of our townspeople.
我们听说，温热的油刺激了接下来的袭击，我之前提到的袭击，在我们一些镇民的头脑中，犯罪活动似乎比平时更加活跃。
Let me say first, I was an eyewitness.
首先声明一下，我是亲历者。
I gave the order to pour the oil and I witnessed its descent.
我下令倒油，我亲眼目睹了它的下降。
I am happy and proud to report that the oil hit its target with an accuracy and completeness I could have only dreamed of.
我很高兴也很自豪地报告，石油以我梦寐以求的准确性和完整性达到了目标。
We got them all.
我们都得到了。
There was oil everywhere.
到处都是石油。
We soaked them.
我们把它们浸泡了。
We coated them.
我们给它们涂上涂层。
We covered them with a lustrous layer of oil.
我们在它们上覆盖了一层有光泽的油。
Unfortunately, as everyone knows, it was only warm.
不幸的是，众所周知，它只是温暖的。
Their immediate reaction was also what I had hoped for, surprise and panic.
他们立即的反应也是我所希望的，惊讶又惊慌。
This, however, lasted about one second.
然而，这持续了大约一秒钟。
Then, several of them looked up into my face and began waving their fists in what I could only take as a tribute.
然后，他们中的几个人抬头看着我的脸，开始挥舞拳头，我只能将其视为致敬。
And then, yes, they did become quite agitated anew, recommencing their assault on the weary planks of our patchwork gates.
然后，是的，他们确实再次变得非常焦躁，重新开始攻击我们拼凑而成的大门的破旧木板。
Some have said that they were on the verge of abandoning their attack before the oil was cast upon them, which I assure you is not true.
有些人说，在油浇在他们身上之前，他们正处于放弃攻击的边缘，我向你保证这不是真的。
As to the attack that followed, it was no different in magnitude or intensity than any of the dozens we suffer every year.
至于随后发生的袭击，其规模和强度与我们每年遭受的数十次袭击没有什么不同。
It may have seemed more odd or extreme, since the perpetrators were greasy and thereby more offensive.
这可能看起来更奇怪或更极端，因为肇事者很油腻，因此更令人反感。
And they did take every stick of furniture left in the village, including the pews from the church, every chair in the great hall, and four milking stools, the last four from the dairy.
他们确实拿走了村里剩下的所有家具，包括教堂的长椅、大厅里的每把椅子，以及四个挤奶凳，最后四个来自奶牛场。
But I, for one, am simply tired of hearing about the slippery stain on the village steps.
但就我而言，我只是厌倦了听到村庄台阶上湿滑的污渍。
Yes, there is a bit of a mess.
是的，有点乱。
And yes, some of it seems to be permanent.
是的，其中一些似乎是永久性的。
My team removed what they could with salt and talc all this week.
我的团队这一周都用盐和滑石粉去除了他们能去除的东西。
All I'll say now is watch your step as you come and go.
我现在要说的是，来来去去时要小心脚步。
In my mind, it's a small inconvenience to pay for a perfect weapon system.
在我看来，为完美的武器系统付费只是一个小小的不便。
"What We Wanted to Do" is from Ron Carlson's book of short stories called Hotel Eden.
“我们想做的事”出自罗恩·卡尔森的短篇小说集《伊甸园酒店》。
Ron's latest book is Return to Oakpine.
罗恩的最新著作是《重返橡树》。
Coming up, man versus squirrel, specifically cop versus squirrel.
接下来是人与松鼠的较量，特别是警察与松鼠的较量。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's show, Fiasco, our own inquiry into the nature of what makes a fiasco, when you have left the world of mishaps, stumble, human error, and you enter into the much more rarefied realm of fiasco.
今天的节目《惨败》是我们对惨败本质的探究，当你离开了充满不幸、绊倒、人为错误的世界，进入了更加稀有的惨败领域时。
We have arrived at Act Three of our program.
我们已经到了我们计划的第三幕了。
Act Three, Squirrel Cop.
第三幕，松鼠警察。
Well, human error is often at the heart of a fiasco.
嗯，人为错误往往是惨败的核心。
But what happens when you combine human error with, what we will call in this case, animal error?
但是，当你将人为错误与动物错误（我们在这种情况下称之为动物错误）结合起来时会发生什么？
We have this story from a police officer in a suburban community on the East Coast.
我们从东海岸郊区社区的一名警察那里听到了这个故事。
There was nothing, nothing going on.
什么也没有，什么也没有发生。
Saturday night in this village.
星期六晚上在这个村庄。
Really quiet.
真的很安静。
Super cold.
超级冷。
And this call came over for unknown animal in a house.
这个电话是因为房子里有未知的动物而发出的。
And it was on my post.
它就在我的帖子上。
It was about five minutes away.
大约五分钟路程就到了。
So myself and another car were assigned the call.
所以我和另一辆车被分配了这个电话。
And we show up there.
我们出现在那里。
And luckily for me, it was another guy who was pretty new.
对我来说幸运的是，这是另一个新人。
So we walk up to the door with all our stuff on, the nylon coat, the vest, the belt, the whole nine yards.
所以我们穿着所有的东西走到门口，尼龙外套，背心，腰带，整整九码。
And the door opens, and the guy who is behind the door, he's about 30.
门打开了，门后面的那个人大约 30 岁。
I was 23 at the time.
当时我23岁。
He's about 30.
他大约30岁。
He looks like a broker, a lawyer.
他看起来像一个经纪人，一个律师。
He's just really well put together, a nice guy wearing glasses.
他身材真的很好，戴着眼镜，是个很好的人。
He's wearing these, like, silk pajamas with a monogram, got my attention.
他穿着这些，就像是带有字母组合的丝绸睡衣，引起了我的注意。
And he's going, listen I'm really sorry to bother you.
他要走了，听着，打扰你真的很抱歉。
Normally, I'd handle this sort of stuff on my own.
一般情况下，这种事情我都会自己处理。
But my wife really insisted I call.
但我妻子真的坚持要我打电话。
So we ask him what the problem is.
所以我们问他问题是什么。
He says, well, we were having kind of a romantic evening down in the living room, and we heard a scratching upstairs.
他说，好吧，我们正在客厅里度过了一个浪漫的夜晚，我们听到楼上有刮擦声。
So I ran upstairs to see what it was.
于是我跑上楼看看那是什么。
And it turns out it's coming from the attic.
事实证明它来自阁楼。
There's something up there.
上面有东西。
And it's just running around, knocking a few small things over.
它只是到处乱跑，撞倒一些小东西。
I can't tell what it is.
我不知道那是什么。
It could be a squirrel, a raccoon.
它可能是一只松鼠，一只浣熊。
I really don't know.
我真的不知道。
So the other cop that I was with said, well, you know, we really don't handle that.
和我在一起的另一位警察说，好吧，你知道，我们真的不处理这个问题。
It's not so much a police function.
这与其说是警察职能。
But we do have numbers of these private contractors who will come in and they'll put a humane trap down, and they'll remove the animal for you.
但我们确实有很多私人承包商会进来，他们会设置人道陷阱，然后为你移走动物。
And it's really not such a big deal.
这确实没什么大不了的。
But it's really not our thing.
但这确实不是我们的事。
So right as he was in the middle of saying that and getting us off the hook, the guy swings the door back, and there's his wife, who was just beautiful.
就在他正要说这句话并让我们摆脱困境时，那家伙把门推开，他的妻子就在那里，她很漂亮。
She was beautiful.
她很漂亮。
She was probably about 26 or 27, but just really beautiful-- perfect skin, long blonde hair, great teeth, brilliant blue eyes, a really nice smile, just, like, beautiful and friendly.
她大概26或27岁左右，但真的很漂亮——完美的皮肤、长长的金发、漂亮的牙齿、明亮的蓝眼睛、非常漂亮的微笑，就像，美丽和友善。
If she had said, eat this broken glass, I just would have said, OK, broken glass it is.
如果她说，吃掉这个碎玻璃，我就会说，好吧，就是碎玻璃。
That's fine.
没关系。
But she seemed really nice.
但她看起来真的很好。
So I was going to be, like, Galahad.
所以我会成为加拉哈德。
So I just threw my arm back into this guy's chest, into my partner's chest.
所以我只是把我的手臂放回到这个家伙的胸膛，进入我伴侣的胸膛。
And I said, Mark, we can handle this.
我说，马克，我们可以处理这个问题。
It'll be OK.
会没事的。
And she was just, oh, thank you so much.
她只是，哦，非常感谢你。
And she was really sweet.
她真的很甜蜜。
And I was, like, struck dead.
我就像被撞死了。
So we walk inside.
所以我们走进去。
And she goes, I'm going to throw a pot of coffee on.
她说，我要倒一壶咖啡。
And we go upstairs.
我们上楼。
We follow the man of the house upstairs.
我们跟着男主人上楼。
And we're underneath one of those trapdoors that goes into the attic with the staircase that folds out.
我们位于一扇通往阁楼的活板门下面，楼梯可以折叠起来。
And we do hear an animal upstairs scratching away, just kind of scuttling around the floor.
我们确实听到楼上有一只动物在抓挠，就像在地板上跑来跑去。
And there's definitely something up there.
上面肯定有东西。
And it's making pretty good speed up, going from one end of the roof to the other.
从屋顶的一端到另一端，它的速度相当快。
So I reached up and I took the trapdoor down.
于是我伸出手，把活板门拉了下来。
We unfolded the ladder.
我们展开了梯子。
Now, I have this big, heavy flashlight, your cop flashlight, the four D-cells, the metal case, the whole thing.
现在，我有这个又大又重的手电筒，你的警察手电筒，四个 D 电池，金属外壳，整个东西。
And I shine it up through the hole in there.
我通过那里的洞把它照亮。
And it's pretty black.
而且它很黑。
I could see the rafters, but really nothing else around there.
我可以看到椽子，但周围什么也没有。
And I start up the ladder.
我开始爬上梯子。
Now, the guy who owned the house is standing almost directly underneath me, just to the side of the ladder, looking straight up at me.
现在，房子的主人几乎就站在我的正下方，就在梯子的一侧，直视着我。
And my partner's at the base of the ladder, right behind me.
我的搭档就在梯子的底部，就在我身后。
So just before I stuck my head through this black hole, I just kind of paused.
所以就在我把头伸进这个黑洞之前，我停了下来。
I crunched my body up underneath, because I'm realizing, gee, I don't know where this thing is.
我把身体压在下面，因为我意识到，天啊，我不知道这东西在哪里。
The second we pulled down the trapdoor, all noise upstairs just ceased.
当我们拉下活板门的那一刻，楼上的所有噪音就停止了。
So I was kind of nervous.
所以我有点紧张。
And I was like, well, I look like an idiot just crouched up here on the top of the ladder.
我当时想，好吧，我看起来就像一个蹲在梯子顶上的白痴。
So I took the flashlight, and I just popped my head up, turned the light on again.
于是我拿起手电筒，抬起头，再次打开灯。
And about six inches from the front of my face was this squirrel at eye level with me, kind of reared back on its legs.
距离我脸前约六英寸处，有一只松鼠，与我的视线齐平，有点用腿向后仰着。
And I swear, from where I was standing, it looked Godzilla.
我发誓，从我站的地方看，它看起来就是哥斯拉。
It just scared the heck out of me.
这简直把我吓坏了。
I thought, it's a squirrel.
我想，这是一只松鼠。
It's going to hiding somewhere.
它会躲到某个地方。
It's going to be terrified of me.
它会害怕我的。
It was six inches away from me.
它离我有六英寸远。
And it really startled me.
这真的让我吃了一惊。
So I kind of went, ah, and jump back.
所以我就走了，啊，然后跳回来。
And the flashlight slips out of my hands.
手电筒从我手中滑落。
And it's heavy.
而且很重。
And it falls directly onto the nose of the guy who's looking straight up at me.
它直接落在那个直视我的家伙的鼻子上。
And I don't think it broke it, but it did some damage.
我不认为它破坏了它，但它造成了一些损害。
And his hands went up to his face, blood just starting pouring out between his hands.
他的双手举到脸上，鲜血开始从双手之间涌出。
This is the homeowner.
这就是房主。
Cop This is the homeowner.
警察 这是房主。
I lose my balance and fall backwards, directly onto my partner.
我失去平衡，向后摔倒，直接摔倒在我的搭档身上。
And I just pancake him.
我只是煎饼他。
We're both on our backs.
我们俩都在背上。
He's on his back.
他在他的背上。
I'm on his stomach on my back, scuttling around like a beetle trying to get up in this really narrow hallway.
我趴在他的背上，像甲虫一样在这个非常狭窄的走廊里爬来爬去。
It's a mess.
真是一团糟。
The squirrel, while we're floundering around in the hallway, jumps down the stairs-- boink, boink, boink-- lands on me, and takes off down the stairs.
当我们在走廊里挣扎时，松鼠从楼梯上跳下来——叮叮叮，叮叮叮——落在我身上，然后从楼梯上跳下来。
How undignified.
多么没有尊严啊。
Cop It was terrible.
警察 这太可怕了。
It was terrible.
太可怕了。
So we're wondering, gee, where is the squirrel?
所以我们想知道，天哪，松鼠在哪里？
And right at that second, the woman who lived there, you hear her scream.
就在那一刻，住在那里的女人，你听到她的尖叫声。
So my partner goes, well, we found the squirrel.
所以我的伙伴说，好吧，我们找到了松鼠。
It's wherever she is.
无论她在哪里，都是如此。
So we go running downstairs.
于是我们就往楼下跑。
And the squirrel had come into the living room where they had been having their romantic evening.
松鼠来到了客厅，他们正在那里度过了浪漫的夜晚。
They a fire going.
他们着火了。
They had pillows arranged around one corner of the couch next to the fire.
他们在火炉旁的沙发一角放了枕头。
And they had champagne flutes out.
他们还拿出了香槟酒杯。
Nice house, really nice, I mean, it just smelled brand new-- new carpeting, new rugs, new paint.
漂亮的房子，真的很好，我是说，它闻起来是全新的——新地毯、新地毯、新油漆。
They hadn't been there for that long.
他们已经很久没有去那里了。
So the squirrel, when it bolted down the staircase, took off into the living room and ran underneath the couch for cover.
于是，当松鼠冲下楼梯时，它就跑进客厅，跑到沙发底下寻找庇护。
So we run downstairs.
于是我们跑下楼。
This guy is bleeding all over the place on his carpets.
这家伙的地毯上到处都是血。
His wife looks, and says, what have you done to my husband?
他的妻子看了看，说，你对我丈夫做了什么？
I start going, oh, it was an accident.
我开始走，哦，这是一个意外。
And then I just stop in mid-sentence.
然后我就停在句子中间。
What's the point?
有什么意义？
We've only been there about two minutes.
我们只到了那里大约两分钟。
So the squirrel is underneath the couch.
所以松鼠在沙发下面。
And my partner is going, let's get out of here.
我的搭档要走了，我们离开这里吧。
This is just-- it's not going well.
这只是——进展不顺利。
So I'm not beaten yet.
所以我还没有被打败。
I always have another idea.
我总是有另一个想法。
So the squirrel is under this couch, which is in the middle of the room.
所以松鼠就在房间中央的沙发下面。
So I have this bright idea.
所以我有这个好主意。
Why don't we move the furniture away from one of the corners?
我们为什么不把家具从角落里移开呢？
And we'll put the couch in the corner.
我们会把沙发放在角落里。
And the squirrel will probably move along with the couch, because it's the only cover available to it.
松鼠可能会随着沙发一起移动，因为这是它唯一可用的盖子。
And once we get into the corner, we'll only have two open sides of the couch to worry about.
一旦我们进入角落，我们就只剩下沙发的两个开放的侧面需要担心。
So we did that.
所以我们就这么做了。
That is so tactical.
这太有战术性了。
Cop Yes.
警察 是的。
Yeah, I was very proud of myself at that instant.
是的，那一刻我为自己感到非常自豪。
But you know.
但你知道。
I asked her for a box.
我向她要了一个盒子。
And she says, sure, we've got boxes.
她说，当然，我们有盒子。
We just moved in.
我们刚搬进来。
We have nothing but boxes.
我们除了箱子什么都没有。
She runs out to the garage, and she comes back with a box.
她跑到车库，带着一个盒子回来。
And the box is long enough.
而且盒子够长。
And it fits across the entire short side of the couch, where the armrest would be.
它适合沙发的整个短边，即扶手所在的位置。
So I start sweeping underneath the couch with my nightstick, trying to move the squirrel toward the box, figuring we'll capture it and just get rid of it.
于是我开始用警棍在沙发下面清扫，试图把松鼠移向盒子，想着我们能抓住它并摆脱它。
And we'll be out of here.
我们会离开这里的。
And there'll be no more mayhem.
不会再有混乱了。
So it's actually working very well.
所以它实际上运作得很好。
And the squirrel is moving down along.
松鼠也跟着往下走。
You can hear it.
你可以听到它。
It's chittering.
它在叽叽喳喳地叫着。
And I'm trying not to hurt it.
我努力不伤害它。
I'm nervous about the thing.
我对这件事很紧张。
It might bite me.
它可能会咬我。
I don't want to hurt it, really.
我不想伤害它，真的。
It's just an animal.
它只是一只动物。
So I'm moving it along, and everything's going very well.
所以我正在继续推进，一切都很顺利。
And then with about eight inches to go, I took one more swipe, and the thing just bolted out from underneath the couch.
然后还剩大约八英寸，我又挥了一下，那东西就从沙发下面冲了出来。
It was lined with tassels.
它衬有流苏。
I couldn't really see under the couch.
我真的看不到沙发下面。
It bolted out from underneath the couch and ran directly into the fireplace, which is about three feet away.
它从沙发下面冲了出来，直接跑进了大约三英尺远的壁炉里。
The fireplace was directly ahead of it, and it ran into the fire and caught on fire, and ran directly back out and directly back under the couch.
壁炉就在它的正前方，它跑进火里着火了，直接跑了出来，直接跑回了沙发下面。
Is it on fire?
着火了吗？
Cop It was on fire.
警察 着火了。
Yeah, the tail, the bushy fur, the whole bit.
是的，尾巴，浓密的皮毛，全部。
I mean, it wasn't, like, flaming or anything.
我的意思是，它不是燃烧之类的。
But it was smoking.
但它正在冒烟。
And there was a little bit of fire coming off the tail.
尾巴上还冒出了一点火光。
So it runs back under the couch.
所以它又跑回沙发下面了。
And the couch catches on fire in seconds-- I mean, in seconds.
沙发几秒钟内就着火了——我的意思是，几秒钟内。
It must have had dust under there or something else.
下面肯定有灰尘或其他什么东西。
But it just caught on fire immediately.
但它立刻就着火了。
And my partner and I just don't even talk.
我和我的搭档甚至不说话。
We just grab the couch, heave it upside down.
我们只要抓住沙发，把它倒过来。
And now there's plenty of oxygen for the fire to really get going.
现在有足够的氧气让火真正燃烧起来。
And it starts up.
它启动了。
And we're patting it out.
我们正在拍它。
And it's sort of getting away from us.
它正在远离我们。
So we grab the only thing that's really available.
所以我们抓住唯一真正可用的东西。
And those are these really nice silk pillows.
这些都是非常漂亮的丝绸枕头。
And we have one in each hand, the both of us.
我们每只手都拿着一个，我们俩。
And we're just windmilling away at this fire on the couch.
我们只是在沙发上看着这堆火。
And we put it out.
我们把它拿出来了。
But it's smoking terribly.
但抽烟太厉害了
And it was a disaster.
这是一场灾难。
The couch is upside down.
沙发是倒过来的。
The bottom of it is burnt.
它的底部被烧焦了。
The house is filling with smoke from the couch.
房子里充满了沙发上的烟雾。
The squirrel, when it went under the couch, in its death throes, just latched onto the bottom of the couch.
当松鼠钻到沙发底下时，它在垂死挣扎中，只是卡在了沙发的底部。
It's like this smoking piece of gristle underneath the couch, latched on there with its claws.
它就像沙发下面冒着烟的软骨，用爪子卡住了。
And we're pounding, smearing it all over the place.
我们正在敲击，将其涂抹得到处都是。
The smoke alarms are firing away.
烟雾警报器正在鸣响。
The guy's standing with handkerchiefs and paper towels up around his nose, which is still bleeding.
那家伙站着，用手帕和纸巾捂着鼻子，鼻子还在流血。
His pajamas are a mess.
他的睡衣乱七八糟。
They're covered with blood, the front of them.
他们的前面沾满了血。
And we finally get the fire out.
我们终于把火扑灭了。
And we're both completely red, sweating, because we're dressed for, like, zero degree weather.
我们都全身通红，大汗淋漓，因为我们穿的衣服适合零度天气。
And it's hot there by the fire.
而且火边很热。
We're mortified.
我们很羞愧。
The house is full of smoke.
房子里充满了烟雾。
The wife just looks around and just starts to cry.
妻子只是环顾四周，然后就开始哭泣。
She goes, what have you done?
她走了，你做了什么？
What have you done to my house?
你对我家做了什么？
You could see her just clicking things off on her fingers.
你可以看到她只是用手指敲击东西。
OK, the dead squirrel, ruined pillows, need a new couch, the walls are covered with soot, the fire alarms are going off, my husband's disfigured.
好吧，死松鼠，毁了枕头，需要一张新沙发，墙壁上布满了烟灰，火警警报响了，我丈夫毁容了。
And then she really kind of just lost it.
然后她真的就失去了它。
And he was just looking at us and shaking his head, like he couldn't believe that these two idiots showed up and did this to his house over nothing, really.
他只是看着我们，摇着头，好像他不敢相信这两个白痴会出现，并且无缘无故地对他的房子做出这种事，真的。
And he just goes, you know, you really haven't done anything wrong.
他只是说，你知道，你真的没有做错任何事。
I can't point to any one thing that you did that I have a reason to get angry about.
我无法指出你所做的任何一件事是我有理由生气的。
You really haven't done anything wrong.
你确实没有做错任何事。
I mean, we did call you.
我的意思是，我们确实给你打电话了。
But I just, I can't thank you for this.
但我只是，我不能为此感谢你。
They call for a squirrel.
他们呼唤一只松鼠。
They end up with $3,000, $4,000 worth of damage and a broken nose.
他们最终遭受了价值 3,000 美元、4,000 美元的损失和鼻子骨折。
And this is all within about five minutes.
这一切都在大约五分钟内完成。
Could that have happened to you now, 13 years later?
13年后的今天，这种事会发生在你身上吗？
There's always a new mistake to be made.
总是会犯新的错误。
I don't think I would make that particular mistake.
我不认为我会犯那个特别的错误。
I mean, you make plenty of mistakes.
我的意思是，你犯了很多错误。
You make plenty of mistakes.
你犯了很多错误。
That's just part of that job.
这只是该工作的一部分。
You just try not to make the same one twice.
你只是尽量不要做两次同样的事情。
But there's such variety that you're going to make hundreds, you're going to make thousands of mistakes, until you really get a handle on what you're doing.
但事情的多样性如此之大，你可能会犯数百个错误，犯数千个错误，直到你真正掌握自己正在做的事情。
And with police work, they afford you plenty of space to make mistakes.
在警察工作中，他们为你提供了足够的犯错空间。
But there's things that just aren't your responsibility.
但有些事情并不是你的责任。
If you get involved in things that aren't your responsibility, or that you're really not equipped to handle, or that don't have a specific plan, a plan that's thought through to a conclusion, you probably should reevaluate what you're doing.
如果你卷入了一些不属于你的责任的事情，或者你确实没有能力处理的事情，或者没有一个具体的计划，一个经过深思熟虑得出结论的计划，你可能应该重新评估你正在做的事情。
Yeah, now that you mention that, that's right.
是啊，既然你提到了，那就对了。
You walk into the house, thinking OK, we'll get this squirrel.
你走进房子，心里想，好吧，我们会抓住这只松鼠的。
Like, how were you going to get the squirrel?
比如，你要怎么得到松鼠？
What was the best case scenario?
最好的情况是什么？
That's a great question.
这是一个很好的问题。
I guess I was thinking that I would go up there in the attic and find this cowering squirrel and somehow kind of lure it into some kind of a trap.
我想我当时想我应该去阁楼找到这只畏缩的松鼠，然后以某种方式将它引诱到某种陷阱中。
And then walk out with it and be like a hero.
然后带着它走出去，像个英雄一样。
But as it turned out, it was a Pyrrhic victory for the squirrel, but the squirrel definitely won.
但事实证明，这对松鼠来说是一场代价高昂的胜利，但松鼠绝对赢了。
The squirrel really kicked our ass.
松鼠真的踢了我们的屁股。
That is not what you want to be saying at the end of the day.
这不是你最终想要说的。
No. No. I mean, it took a long time to even tell people about it.
不，不，我的意思是，甚至花了很长时间才告诉人们这件事。
I was so new.
我太新了。
I didn't want to know what a bonehead I was when I first came onto the job.
我不想知道我刚开始工作时是多么愚蠢。
Our interviewee, who asked not to be named on the radio, has been on the force for 28 years.
我们的受访者要求在广播中不透露姓名，他已在警队工作了 28 年。
[MUSIC - "FOX SQUIRREL" BY MUDDY WATERS]
[音乐 - MUDDY Waters 的“狐狸松鼠”]
Act Four, Fiascoes as a Force for Good.
第四幕，惨败作为正义的力量。
George Clooney, Barbara Streisand, Jennifer Aniston, Vidal Sassoon, Jodie Foster, Alicia Silverstone, Brad Pitt, Keanu Reeves, Sharon Stone, and John Travolta, also George Burns, Bob Hope, Gene Kelly, Gena Rowlands, also Quentin Tarantino, John Waters, Nora Ephron-- Margy Rochlin has interviewed all these people.
乔治·克鲁尼、芭芭拉·史翠珊、詹妮弗·安妮斯顿、维达尔·沙逊、朱迪·福斯特、艾丽西亚·席尔维斯通、布拉德·皮特、基努·里维斯、莎朗·斯通和约翰·特拉沃尔塔，还有乔治·伯恩斯、鲍勃·霍普、吉恩·凯利、吉娜·罗兰兹、昆汀·塔伦蒂诺、约翰·沃特斯、诺拉·艾弗隆——玛吉·罗克林采访了所有这些人。
She does big magazine feature stories for big magazines in the New York Times.
她为《纽约时报》的大型杂志撰写专题报道。
But the very, very first big feature assignment she was actually sent out on was by a publication in 1982.
但实际上，她接到的第一个大型专题任务是 1982 年由一家出版物发出的。
The Los Angeles Reader sent out a very nervous, very youthful Margy Rochlin to interview Moon Unit Zappa.
《洛杉矶读者报》派出一位非常紧张、非常年轻的玛吉·罗克林来采访月球部队扎帕。
You may remember her, daughter of Frank Zappa.
你可能还记得她，弗兰克·扎帕的女儿。
She had consented to her second interview ever after the release of her runaway hit song, "Valley Girl."
在她的热门歌曲《Valley Girl》发行后，她同意接受第二次采访。
In this little bit that she does on this song, she's using a lot of this language, this sort of Valspeak that no one had ever heard before.
在她在这首歌中所做的一小部分中，她使用了很多这种语言，这种以前没有人听过的瓦尔语。
And it was considered really exotic.
它被认为非常具有异国情调。
And so I was from the valley, so I was sent to go talk to her.
我来自山谷，所以我被派去和她说话。
She was one of your people.
她是你们的人之一。
Speak to her in your secret, private argot.
用你的秘密、私人用语与她交谈。
Exactly.
确切地。
And of course, what is so touching to me is that I totally bought that.
当然，最让我感动的是我完全买了它。
You're right.
你说得对。
I'm the right person for the job.
我是这份工作的合适人选。
I'm going to go speak to her in the valley language.
我要去用山谷语言跟她说话。
And we will bond.
我们会建立联系。
So you get there, and you're a bit nervous.
所以你到了那里，你有点紧张。
And the pressure is on.
压力也随之而来。
Which is, of course, the setting for a possible triumph or possible fiasco.
当然，这可能是胜利，也可能是惨败。
And what happens next?
接下来会发生什么？
Well, what I noticed was it was a tense situation.
嗯，我注意到这是一个紧张的情况。
I just didn't feel like it was going very well.
我只是觉得进展不太顺利。
And the mother was sort of hovering.
母亲有点徘徊。
Right.
正确的。
Well, we have a recording of it, because you had a tape recorder rolling during this.
嗯，我们有录音，因为在这期间你有录音机在转动。
Yes.
是的。
Margy Rochlin What are some other hang outs in the valley, besides the Galleria?
Margy Rochlin 除了 Galleria 之外，山谷里还有哪些其他值得去的地方？
Bowling alleys with big arcades are very popular.
带有大型拱廊的保龄球馆非常受欢迎。
Like what?
比如什么？
Margy Rochlin Oh, I'm trying-- at this point, I'm sort of that rock bottom level that everyone can get at in an interview, where you're just saying, like, what's your favorite color?
玛吉·罗克林（Margy Rochlin）哦，我正在尝试——在这一点上，我处于每个人在采访中都能达到的最低水平，你只是说，比如，你最喜欢的颜色是什么？
And she's trying to help me along.
她正在努力帮助我。
Kirkwood's is gone.
柯克伍德的已经不见了。
Moon Unit Zappa It's now the sports center.
Moon Unit Zappa 现在是体育中心。
Oh, but it's the same thing?
哦，不过是同一个东西吗？
Moon Unit Zappa Yeah, it's still very popular.
Moon Unit Zappa 是的，它仍然很受欢迎。
So we're seated in the den.
所以我们坐在书房里。
And the mother made me coffee.
妈妈给我泡了咖啡。
But I was too nervous to drink it.
但我太紧张了，不敢喝。
But I sort of kept staring at it.
但我一直盯着它看。
And she kept staring at it.
她一直盯着它。
And I felt like it was pretty important that at some point, I better drain that coffee cup.
我觉得在某个时候，我最好把咖啡杯里的咖啡倒掉，这一点非常重要。
And so what happened was Moon told me a joke.
所以发生的事情是穆恩给我讲了一个笑话。
And I didn't see the joke coming.
我没有看到笑话发生。
And right before she told me the joke, I had taken a big swig of the coffee, which was now cold.
就在她给我讲笑话之前，我喝了一大口咖啡，咖啡已经冷了。
And when she told me the joke, I burst out laughing.
当她告诉我这个笑话时，我大笑起来。
And I started to choke.
我开始窒息。
And so I pressed my lips together, so I didn't spit it out.
于是我抿紧了嘴唇，没有吐出来。
I didn't want to do a spit-take.
我不想吐口水。
And the coffee came shooting out my nose.
咖啡从我的鼻子里喷了出来。
Shooting out your nose?
射出你的鼻子？
Margy Rochlin Shooting right out my nose.
玛吉·罗克林 从我鼻子里开枪。
I was really embarrassed, but simultaneously, I couldn't breath.
我真的很尴尬，但同时我也无法呼吸。
At the same time, I was choking.
与此同时，我也窒息了。
And I jumped up.
我跳了起来。
And I sort of started running around the room, knocking things over.
我开始在房间里跑来跑去，把东西打翻了。
And I think that they didn't know what was going on.
我认为他们不知道发生了什么事。
But the mother began chasing me.
但妈妈开始追我。
She began chasing you?
她开始追你了？
Margy Rochlin She began chasing me, because I was running from corner to corner, trying to catch my breath.
玛吉·罗克林 她开始追我，因为我从一个角落跑到另一个角落，试图喘口气。
And she began chasing me.
她开始追我。
And at a certain point, she got behind me, and she gave me the Heimlich maneuver.
在某个时刻，她走到我身后，对我进行了海姆立克急救法。
Put your arms up.
举起你的手臂。
No, really.
不，真的。
Seriously?
严重地？
OK?
好的？
Well, I've been in the news business-- I've been a reporter for 20 years.
嗯，我一直从事新闻行业——我当记者已经 20 年了。
And nobody's ever given me the Heimlich maneuver while I've been on a story.
当我讲故事时，从来没有人给过我海姆立克急救法。
Well, I always say that it's a benchmark.
嗯，我总是说这是一个基准。
It's a very low benchmark.
这是一个非常低的基准。
And I can do any interview.
我可以接受任何采访。
I can get thrown off a set.
我可能会被赶出一组。
I can be cursed out by the subject, but I can leave and get in the car, and I can drive home and think, I didn't blow coffee out my nose.
我可能会被这个话题咒骂，但我可以离开并上车，我可以开车回家并想，我没有把咖啡从鼻子里吹出来。
It was sort of like we'd all been in an earthquake together.
这有点像我们一起经历了一场地震。
And all of nervousness left the room.
所有的紧张情绪都消失在房间里。
And suddenly we were three gals, just chatting.
突然我们变成了三个女孩，只是聊天。
And I remember that I sort of hugged them both when I left.
我记得我离开时拥抱了他们俩。
Wow.
哇。
Margy Rochlin They were now my friends.
玛吉·罗克林 他们现在是我的朋友了。
It's interesting, because one of our criteria for a fiasco is that all social order, the normal social structure breaks down.
这很有趣，因为我们判断惨败的标准之一是所有社会秩序、正常的社会结构都崩溃了。
And literally, that's what happens here.
从字面上看，这就是这里发生的事情。
The normal interview stops.
正常的采访停止了。
And the social structure of the moment completely changes.
当下的社会结构彻底改变。
The mom gives you the Heimlich maneuver.
妈妈给你进行海姆立克急救法。
And then, suddenly, it stops feeling like an interview.
然后，突然间，它不再像一次采访了。
Yeah.
是的。
And I have to say that it was a very embarrassing experience, and it completely made me feel close to them.
而我不得不说，这是一次非常尴尬的经历，也彻底让我对他们产生了亲近感。
It was so interesting.
太有趣了。
When Moon's father died a while ago, I bumped into her somewhere, and we both burst into tears.
不久前Moon的父亲去世了，我在某个地方碰到了她，我们都哭了。
I really felt like a little sister of mine had had a loss.
我真的感觉就像我的一个小妹妹吃了亏一样。
The starting point was--
出发点是——
That moment.
那一刻。
Margy Rochlin --that moment.
玛吉·罗克林——那一刻。
To me, the thing about it that's useful is that it shows the useful purpose of a fiasco.
对我来说，它的有用之处在于它显示了一场惨败的有用目的。
That is, when social order breaks down, that could be a force not just for chaos and for entropy and for evil, but in fact, that could be a force for good.
也就是说，当社会秩序崩溃时，这不仅可能成为混乱、熵和邪恶的力量，而且事实上，这也可能成为善良的力量。
Right.
正确的。
Ira Glass It can bring people together.
Ira Glass 它可以将人们聚集在一起。
Right.
正确的。
It was actually this huge success to me.
这对我来说实际上是巨大的成功。
I'd never been sent out under these kind of circumstances before.
我从来没有在这种情况下被送出去过。
And I remember we beat the local paper.
我记得我们击败了当地报纸。
The Herald Examiner followed us a week later.
一周后，《先驱观察报》对我们进行了追踪。
And so we had the first story.
这样我们就有了第一个故事。
And it was sort of considered the definitive one, because we had this glossary of terms that I had made or put together.
它被认为是权威的，因为我们有我制作或整理的术语表。
Of Valleyspeak terms.
谷语术语。
Margy Rochlin Of Valleyspeak terms.
玛吉·罗克林 (Margy Rochlin) 山谷用语。
And then it was syndicated.
然后它就被联合起来了。
And most of the quotable stuff that you ended up using in your story happened after the incident?
您在故事中最终使用的大部分引用内容都发生在事件发生之后？
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass It happened after squirting the coffee through your nose.
Ira Glass：这件事发生在你把咖啡从鼻子里喷出来之后。
Right, exactly.
对，完全正确。
Exactly.
确切地。
It's a technique I don't suggest anyone trying.
我不建议任何人尝试这种技术。
For years afterwards, Moon would send me postcards.
多年后，穆恩都会给我寄明信片。
And on the postcard somewhere would be a picture of a nose, and there would be liquid coming out of it.
明信片上的某个地方会出现一张鼻子的照片，并且会有液体从鼻子中流出来。
Sort of like my logo.
有点像我的标志。
[MUSIC - "DAMAGE CONTROL" BY THE IDLE HANDS] [MUSIC - "DAMAGE CONTROL" BY THE IDLE HANDS]
[音乐 - 空闲之手的“损坏控制”] [音乐 - 空闲之手的“损坏控制”]
Well, our program was produced today by Nancy Updike and myself, with Paul Tough, Alix Siegel, and Julie Snyder.
嗯，我们今天的节目是由南希·厄普代克和我、保罗·托夫、阿利克斯·西格尔和朱莉·斯奈德共同制作的。
Contributing editors for today's program, Jack Hitt, Margy Rochlin, and Consigliere Sarah Vowell.
今天节目的特约编辑是 Jack Hitt、Margy Rochlin 和 Consigliere Sarah Vowell。
Production help today from Dana Chivvis.
今天由 Dana Chivvis 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon is our production manager.
艾米丽·康登 (Emily Condon) 是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson is our administrative assistant.
埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的行政助理。
Adrianne Mathiowetz runs our website.
阿德琳娜·马修韦茨 (Adrianne Mathiowetz) 负责运营我们的网站。
Musical help today from John Connors and Damien Graef.
今天约翰·康纳斯和达米安·格雷夫提供音乐帮助。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Torey Malatia, who walks into our studio at the end of each and every episode of our show to grimly assess the damage.
一如既往地感谢我们节目的联合创始人托里·马拉蒂亚 (Torey Malatia)，他在节目每一集结束时都会走进我们的工作室，严肃地评估损失。
Dead squirrel, ruined pillows, need a new couch.
死松鼠，毁坏的枕头，需要一张新沙发。
The walls are covered with soot.
墙壁上布满了烟灰。
The fire alarms are going off.
火警警报响起。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of this American life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多关于美国生活的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。