506: Secret Identity - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #506 | June 18, 2021 506: Secret Identity Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 506 集 | 2021 年 6 月 18 日 506：秘密身份 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass OK, here's something that happens all summer long on Highway 101 in Northern California in the middle of the redwood forest.
序言 Ira Glass 好吧，在北加州 101 号高速公路的红杉林中，整个夏天都会发生这样的事情。
Little kids hold conversations with a statue that's five stories high.
小孩子们与五层楼高的雕像交谈。
What do you eat?
你吃什么？
Paul Bunyan Statue What do I eat?
保罗·班扬雕像 我吃什么？
Mostly pancakes.
主要是煎饼。
[LAUGHTER] Paul Bunyan Statue What do you eat?
[笑声] 保罗·班扬雕像 你吃什么？
The statue is Paul Bunyan.
这座雕像是保罗·班扬。
Big red shirt, blue pants, hairy chest, black beard.
大红衬衫，蓝裤子，毛茸茸的胸膛，黑胡子。
He stands next to Babe, his 36-foot tall blue ox.
他站在他的 36 英尺高的蓝牛贝贝旁边。
Adults talk to him too.
大人也跟他说话。
Hey, do you know Bigfoot?
嘿，你认识大脚吗？
Paul Bunyan Statue Yeah, I play poker with him on Friday nights.
保罗·班扬雕像 是的，我周五晚上和他一起玩扑克。
Who else plays in that game?
还有谁参加那场比赛？
Paul Bunyan Statue Uh.
保罗·班扬雕像 呃。
What's your shoe size?
你的鞋码是多少？
Shouldn't you be in Minnesota?
你不是应该在明尼苏达吗？
Where are the bathrooms?
浴室在哪里？
Tell me a joke.
给我讲个笑话吧。
Paul and Babe are part of a roadside attraction called Trees of Mystery.
保罗和贝贝是路边景点“神秘之树”的一部分。
Paul can turn his head in a slow swivel.
保罗可以缓慢地转动他的头。
He can wave.
他可以挥手。
He can wink.
他可以眨眼。
All with the stiff, hydraulic-powered gestures you would expect from a statute built in 1962, which he is.
一切都是僵硬的、液压驱动的手势，你会想到这是一座建于 1962 年的雕像，而他就是这样。
Can I sing you a song?
我可以给你唱首歌吗？
Paul Bunyan Statue Can you sing me a song?
保罗·班扬雕像 你能为我唱首歌吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Paul Bunyan Statue You are very much welcome to sing me a song.
保罗·班扬雕像 非常欢迎你给我唱首歌。
OK.
好的。
[SINGS] Ira Glass Don't be fooled by how great these two seem to be getting along.
[SINGS] Ira Glass 不要被这两个人相处得多么融洽所迷惑。
This is a good one.
这是一件好事。
Ira Glass Eight year-old Morgan Gossage, like lots of kids, also has skeptical questions for Paul Bunyan.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 八岁的摩根·戈萨奇 (Morgan Gossage) 和许多孩子一样，也对保罗·班扬 (Paul Bunyan) 提出了怀疑的问题。
So many kids try to trap him into admitting he is not really Paul Bunyan, he's just a statue.
很多孩子试图诱骗他承认他不是真正的保罗·班扬，他只是一座雕像。
Why can't you open your mouth when you talk?
为什么说话的时候嘴巴张不开？
Because I'm not allowed to.
因为我不被允许这样做。
There's all the OSHA regulations, like I can't swing my ax.
有所有 OSHA 规定，比如我不能挥舞斧头。
Huh.
呵呵。
Paul Bunyan Statue I can't dance.
保罗·班扬雕像 我不会跳舞。
I can't jump up and down.
我无法上蹿下跳。
Management, by the way, holds the line on this.
顺便说一下，管理层对此持保留态度。
When one of our producers first spoke with a woman in the gift shop and asked who does the voice for Paul Bunyan, the woman replied, "Paul Bunyan."
当我们的一位制片人第一次在礼品店与一位女士交谈并询问谁为保罗·班扬配音时，这位女士回答说：“保罗·班扬。”
Or this is John Thompson.
或者这是约翰·汤普森。
His family owns Trees of Mystery and he runs the place.
他的家族拥有“神秘之树”，他经营着这个地方。
I asked him what Paul's made of.
我问他保罗是由什么组成的。
He says, "The same stuff as you or I, only more of it." I ask if Paul Bunyan's an employee.
他说：“和你我一样，只是更多。”我问保罗·班扬是否是一名员工。
Well, you know, there's that fuzzy area there because he's so big we can't really get him to do what we want him to do all the time.
嗯，你知道，那里有一个模糊区域，因为他太大了，我们无法真正让他一直做我们希望他做的事情。
It's only been a few years we got him to stop walking around in the daytime.
几年后我们就让他不再在白天到处走动了。
He stepped on a couple cars and made a mess.
他踩了几辆车，弄得一团糟。
But that's Paul.
但这就是保罗。
John's daughter Hannah and his son-in-law Kylan both listened to him tell me this.
约翰的女儿汉娜和他的女婿凯兰都听他告诉我这件事。
They both seemed a little pained to have to keep up the pretense with me that Paul was real.
他们似乎都有点痛苦，因为不得不继续对我假装保罗是真实的。
And it's Kylan who pipes in with a very reasonable point that if Paul Bunyan is just some guy pretending to be Paul Bunyan--
凯兰插话了一个非常合理的观点，如果保罗·班扬只是某个冒充保罗·班扬的人——
You know, it really isn't as fun.
你知道，这真的没那么有趣。
I don't think the truth is really as interesting as people want to believe it is.
我认为事实并不像人们愿意相信的那样有趣。
It really isn't, you know?
事实并非如此，你知道吗？
The bottom line, Ira, is that would you pull the mask off Mickey Mouse?
最重要的是，艾拉，你会把米老鼠的面具摘下来吗？
Me?
我？
No. John Thompson Well, there you go.
不，约翰·汤普森 好吧，就这样。
OK.
好的。
And I'll be frank, I thought this is where the story would end.
坦白说，我以为故事就到此结束了。
We have an episode for you today about secret identities.
今天我们为您准备了一集关于秘密身份的节目。
And at this point, I would say something about how it's better not to find out who's behind the mask and I would start the show WBEZ Chicago, Public Radio International, all that blah, blah, blah.
在这一点上，我会说一些关于最好不要找出面具后面的人的事情，然后我将开始节目 WBEZ 芝加哥，国际公共广播电台，所有这些废话，废话，废话。
And we would move on to Act One.
我们将继续第一幕。
But around closing time at Trees of Mystery, that plan fell completely apart.
但在神秘之树关闭时，这个计划彻底失败了。
I was standing near Paul Bunyan and this heavyset guy in a t-shirt and jeans and wire-rimmed glasses walked up to me.
我站在保罗·班扬 (Paul Bunyan) 附近，这个穿着 T 恤、牛仔裤、戴着金属丝框眼镜的魁梧家伙向我走来。
Hi.
你好。
Ira.
伊拉。
Dave Johnson How you doing?
戴夫·约翰逊 你好吗？
Dave Johnson.
戴夫·约翰逊。
Hey.
嘿。
Get a little closer.
再靠近一点。
Dave Johnson Oh, OK.
戴夫·约翰逊 哦，好的。
So do you work here?
那么你在这里工作吗？
Dave Johnson Yes, I do.
戴夫·约翰逊 是的，我愿意。
What do you do here?
你在这里做什么？
Dave Johnson I work Sky Trail and do Paul Bunyan occasionally.
戴夫·约翰逊 (Dave Johnson) 我在 Sky Trail 工作，偶尔也为保罗·班扬 (Paul Bunyan) 工作。
[LAUGHS] You're blowing their cover here.
[笑]你在这里暴露了他们的伪装。
So was that you today?
那么今天是你吗？
Dave Johnson Yeah, that was me.
戴夫·约翰逊 是的，那就是我。
It was hot up there.
那里很热。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
His face really was bright red, though it took me a minute to realize what he meant when he said "up there." I had assumed that whoever was the voice of Paul Bunyan was looking out a window from the gift shop, which is right across the way.
他的脸确实是鲜红的，尽管我花了一分钟才明白他说“在那儿”的意思。我以为保罗·班扬的声音是谁正在从对面的礼品店往窗外看。
Or maybe they were watching a video monitor somewhere and talking into a mic, but no.
或者也许他们正在某处观看视频监视器并对着麦克风讲话，但没有。
John and Kylan, in a stunning reversal in their media strategy, I have to say, walked me around to see the back of Paul Bunyan's right shoe.
我不得不说，约翰和凯兰的媒体策略发生了惊人的逆转，他们带我四处看看保罗·班扬右鞋的后部。
And there's a little door there and they opened it up.
那里有一扇小门，他们打开了它。
We now see a ladder and a bunch of pipes and wires heading up.
我们现在看到一个梯子和一堆向上延伸的管道和电线。
I stick my head in and look up.
我把头伸进去，向上看。
It's dark and narrow.
这里又黑又窄。
Kylan and Hannah offer to take me up, and I climb in first and it was stuffy and hot and claustrophobic.
凯兰和汉娜提议带我上去，我先爬了进去，里面又闷又热，让人有幽闭恐惧症。
It felt very easy to fall.
感觉很容易摔倒。
We climb this one ladder for what seems like a really long time and then switch to another ladder and then hoist ourselves through an opening.
我们爬这个梯子似乎很长一段时间，然后换到另一个梯子，然后通过一个开口提升自己。
It's like a little space capsule in here.
这里就像一个小太空舱。
Yes.
是的。
Kylan It's about an eight to 10 foot oval.
Kylan 这是一个大约 8 到 10 英尺的椭圆形。
We're inside Paul's torso.
我们在保罗的躯干里面。
It's lit by a single bare light bulb on a wire that looks like if you touched the wire, you would die.
它由一根电线上的一个裸露灯泡照亮，看起来如果你碰触电线，你就会死。
You see outside through Paul's chest hair.
你可以透过保罗的胸毛看到外面。
The walls are covered in decaying soundproofing tiles and torn installation.
墙壁上覆盖着腐烂的隔音瓷砖和撕裂的装置。
There's a dingy old sink that the guys pee into on their shifts, and old pressure gauges from 1962 measuring the hydraulics, four levers to make Paul's eye wink or head turn.
这里有一个脏兮兮的旧水槽，工人们轮班时会往里面撒尿，还有 1962 年测量液压系统的旧压力表，还有四个让保罗眨眼或转头的杠杆。
This is amazing!
这太棒了！
This is really like a magical place, I have to say.
不得不说，这真是一个神奇的地方。
The coolest things, I think, are these old, old hydraulics that control everything.
我认为最酷的东西就是这些控制一切的古老的液压装置。
See, you can feel this whole place shake.
看，你能感觉到整个地方都在震动。
Yeah.
是的。
Hannah So do you think it's better now that you know?
汉娜 那么你认为现在知道了会更好吗？
Or is it worse?
或者更糟？
Or is it the same?
或者说是一样的吗？
I have to say this is better than not knowing.
我不得不说，这比不知道要好。
This is so cool in here, this room with these steel beams cutting through it and the crappy sink where people pee.
这里太酷了，这个房间里有这些钢梁穿过它，还有人们小便的破烂水槽。
This really is like going inside the Wizard of Oz's head.
这真的就像进入绿野仙踪的头脑一样。
Of course, right?
当然，对吧？
Anybody with a secret identity probably feels this.
任何拥有秘密身份的人都可能有这种感觉。
They're supposed to keep it secret, but it must be so tempting to tell people the truth.
他们应该保守秘密，但告诉人们真相一定很诱人。
It must be so hard to keep your mouth shut for spies and for superheroes, 'cause the truth is so insanely cool.
对于间谍和超级英雄来说，闭嘴一定很难，因为真相是如此酷炫。
How did Bruce Wayne not bring every woman he ever took on a date to see the Batcave?
布鲁斯·韦恩怎么没有带他约会过的每一个女人都去看蝙蝠洞呢？
Is this the microphone?
这是麦克风吗？
Kylan I think so.
基兰 我想是的。
Is it live?
是直播吗？
Kylan You'd probably have a better shot.
凯兰：你可能会有更好的机会。
Oh, I would totally know how to work this.
哦，我完全知道如何做这个。
Yeah, this is totally technology that I know.
是的，这完全是我所知道的技术。
One, two, three.
一二三。
That sounds live.
听起来很生动。
Ira Glass Oh, it's on!
艾拉·格拉斯 哦，开始了！
Oops.
哎呀。
Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International, it's This American Life.
来自 WBEZ 芝加哥和国际公共广播电台的 Ira Glass，这就是美国生活。
I'm Paul Bunyan.
我是保罗·班扬。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, You Can't Handle the Truth.
第一幕，你无法面对真相。
So I'm just guessing here, but I would think that people usually take on a secret identity only after careful consideration, only after thinking through all the angles, taking some time.
所以我只是在这里猜测，但我认为人们通常只有经过仔细考虑、经过所有角度思考、花费一些时间之后才会采取秘密身份。
Jon Ronson has this story of a guy who takes on a secret identity in haste without a lot of strategizing, without much long term thinking.
乔恩·罗森（Jon Ronson）有这样一个故事：一个人仓促地接受了一个秘密身份，没有太多的策略，也没有太多的长期思考。
Sometimes the government stages crimes, like in the 1950s when the CIA was experimenting with LSD as a truth serum and they set up a fake brothel in New York City.
有时政府会策划犯罪，例如 20 世纪 50 年代，中央情报局正在试验 LSD 作为吐真剂，并在纽约市建立了一家假妓院。
The prostitutes would spike the unsuspecting johns' drinks with acid while CIA agents sat behind a one-way mirror to see if they would blurt out secrets.
妓女们会在毫无戒心的嫖客的饮料中加入酸，而中央情报局特工则坐在一面单向镜子后面，看看他们是否会脱口而出秘密。
This really happened.
这确实发生了。
Just a few years ago, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was telling gun shops to sell weapons to drug smugglers.
就在几年前，烟酒枪械和爆炸物管理局还要求枪支商店向毒品走私者出售武器。
The idea was to track the guns into the Mexican cartels.
这个想法是追踪枪支进入墨西哥贩毒集团。
But the operation fell apart when they lost track of them and two turned up at the murder scene of a US Border Patrol agent.
但当他们失去了他们的踪迹并且其中两人出现在一名美国边境巡逻人员的谋杀现场时，行动失败了。
These kinds of covert operations happen quite a lot.
此类秘密行动经常发生。
Keep that in mind as you hear this story, which starts with a spate of attempted bank robberies in northern Virginia in June 2012.
当您听到这个故事时，请记住这一点，这个故事始于 2012 年 6 月弗吉尼亚州北部发生的一系列未遂银行抢劫案。
The man who carried them out was a terrible bank robber.
把他们带走的人是一个可怕的银行抢劫犯。
And I don't mean he was terribly evil.
我并不是说他非常邪恶。
I mean he was terrible at it.
我的意思是他在这方面很糟糕。
He'd stand there, demand money, suddenly look panicky, then run out the door.
他会站在那里，要钱，突然显得惊慌失措，然后跑出门外。
The entire spree lasted four days, five attempted robberies in all.
整个狂欢持续了四天，总共发生了五次未遂抢劫。
He didn't make a penny.
他一分钱都没赚到。
The police quickly caught up with him.
警察很快就抓住了他。
He was a 21-year-old guy named Herson Torres.
他是一个 21 岁的小伙子，名叫赫森·托雷斯 (Herson Torres)。
But things took a strange turn when they sat him down for questioning.
但当他们坐下来询问他时，事情发生了奇怪的转变。
Tom Schoenberg is a legal affairs reporter and he covered the story for Bloomberg Businessweek.
汤姆·勋伯格是一名法律事务记者，他为《彭博商业周刊》报道了这个故事。
Initially, he didn't want to tell them anything.
起初，他不想告诉他们任何事情。
And he didn't tell them anything for a little bit.
并且他没有告诉他们任何事情。
And they started showing him pictures of his relatives that they had assembled, and saying he could go to prison for 25 years.
他们开始向他展示他们收集的亲戚的照片，并说他可能会入狱 25 年。
By that point, he was crying.
那时，他已经哭了。
And he said, I want to tell you something, but you're not going to believe what I'm going to tell you.
他说，我想告诉你一些事情，但你不会相信我要告诉你的。
What Herson told them was unbelievable.
赫森告诉他们的话令人难以置信。
But within hours of questioning Herson, the police began to think that his story might be true and that Herson was innocent.
但在审问赫森几个小时后，警方开始认为他的故事可能是真的，而且赫森是无辜的。
It all started, he said, a few days earlier.
他说，这一切都始于几天前。
Herson had got home from a shift unloading trucks at Target when he saw that he had a text message from an old high school friend, Carolina.
赫森从塔吉特百货公司卸完卡车回到家，发现自己收到了高中老友卡罗莱纳发来的短信。
Here's Tom Schoenberg again.
汤姆·勋伯格又来了。
And the message says, hey, I've got a job for you.
这条消息说，嘿，我有一份工作适合你。
We're going to get paid $25,000.
我们将获得 25,000 美元的报酬。
And he taps back, doing what?
然后他回击，做什么？
She responds, robbing banks.
她回应道，抢劫银行。
And at first he thought it was a joke.
起初他以为这是个玩笑。
She explains that it's all legitimate, that it's for the federal government.
她解释说这都是合法的，都是为了联邦政府。
And he agreed to meet with her.
他同意与她见面。
Three hours later when Herson was meeting Carolina in a nearby Dick's Sporting Goods parking lot, she was already on the phone to her government contact, a man named Theo who worked with the Defense Intelligence Agency, a part of the Department of Defense.
三小时后，当赫森在附近的迪克体育用品停车场与卡罗莱纳见面时，她已经给她的政府联系人打电话了，这位联系人名叫西奥，在国防部下属的国防情报局工作。
She passed the phone over to Herson.
她把电话递给赫森。
Theo started telling Herson that this was an operation using civilians to test the security of area banks.
西奥开始告诉赫森，这是一次利用平民来测试地区银行安全的行动。
He'd vetted Herson, Theo said, so he knew all about a misdemeanor theft charge from when Herson was a teenager, the sort of charge that was sealed in juvenile records.
西奥说，他对赫森进行了审查，所以他知道赫森青少年时期的一项轻罪盗窃指控，这种指控被记录在青少年记录中。
And then Theo explained the job that Herson was being recruited into.
然后西奥解释了赫森将要从事的工作。
He calmly said the banks knew that this operation was happening, and he was going to tell them which bank to target.
他平静地说，银行知道这次行动正在发生，他将告诉他们要针对哪家银行。
He explained how the whole operation would work out, that there would be no weapons involved, and that it was really a simple thing to go into these banks and see would they turn over money when someone comes in there and presents them with a note asking them to do so.
他解释了整个行动将如何进行，不会涉及武器，而且进入这些银行，看看当有人进来并向他们出示一张纸条要求他们这样做时，看看他们是否会交出钱，这确实是一件简单的事情。
OK, so when he said that the banks knew, that the bank head office knew, but the bank tellers didn't know and the local managers didn't know.
好吧，所以当他说银行知道，银行总行知道，但是银行柜员不知道，当地经理也不知道。
Exactly.
确切地。
Jon Ronson Right.
乔恩·罗森 对。
And so what would happen if Herson got into trouble in the bank, like if somebody tried to attack him or something in the bank or called the police?
那么，如果赫森在银行遇到麻烦，比如有人试图攻击他或银行里的东西，或者报警，会发生什么？
Right.
正确的。
He was told-- and this is where his timing of going into these banks and out was very quick-- was that he was told do not stay in a bank for longer than five minutes.
他被告知——这就是他进出这些银行的时间非常快的地方——他被告知不要在银行停留超过五分钟。
If anyone says they're going to call police, leave immediately.
如果有人说要报警，请立即离开。
If you see any armed security officers there, immediately leave.
如果您在那里看到任何武装保安人员，请立即离开。
And if you get arrested, stay silent.
如果您被捕，请保持沉默。
We'll have you out within 24 hours.
我们会在 24 小时内接你出去。
So how long after this phone call did the spate of robberies take place?
那么，在这个电话打完之后多久，接二连三的抢劫案就发生了呢？
Immediately.
立即地。
Jon Ronson Well, like the next day?
乔恩·罗森 嗯，比如第二天？
Herson had plenty of reasons to go along with it.
赫森有充分的理由同意这一点。
The government guy, Theo, was credible.
政府官员西奥是可信的。
He seemed to know all about Herson's past.
他似乎对赫森的过去了如指掌。
He said he may be able to get Herson a full time government job.
他说他也许能为赫森找到一份全职政府工作。
Plus Herson was going to be well paid-- $25,000 if he managed to get money out of the banks, $2,500 if not.
另外，赫森将获得丰厚的报酬——如果他能从银行取钱，他将获得 25,000 美元，否则，他将获得 2,500 美元。
At the first bank, Herson handed them a note which read, "I need your help.
在第一家银行，赫森递给他们一张纸条，上面写着：“我需要你们的帮助。
I need money.
我需要钱。
My family is being held hostage and a bomb will go off at 4:30 if you don't help.
我的家人被扣为人质，如果你不帮忙，炸弹就会在 4:30 爆炸。
Don't call the police or the FBI."
不要报警或联邦调查局。”
The teller asked Herson to wait for a few moments.
出纳员让赫森稍等片刻。
Herson immediately ran out of the bank.
赫森立即跑出了银行。
Within minutes, the area was filled with police cars and a police helicopter.
几分钟之内，该地区就挤满了警车和警用直升机。
Theo was on Carolina's cell phone throughout it all, telling Herson which bank to go to next and to not worry.
整个过程中，西奥一直在用卡罗莱纳的手机，告诉赫森下一步该去哪家银行，不要担心。
Herson made four more attempts over the next two days, co-opting his cousin, his brother-in-law, and a friend.
在接下来的两天里，赫森又进行了四次尝试，其中包括他的表弟、姐夫和一位朋友。
They were all as hopeless as Herson, running out of the banks before anyone could give them any money.
他们都像赫森一样绝望，在有人给他们钱之前就跑出了银行。
Plus they'd forgotten to bring a bag.
而且他们忘记带包了。
So even if they had waited for the money, they'd have had to run out with it in their arms.
所以就算他们等了钱，也得抱着钱跑出去。
At the last bank, the cousin just stood there while the others ran away.
到了最后一个银行，表弟只是站在那里，其他人都跑了。
So the police questioned him.
于是警察对他进行了询问。
He gave them Herson's name and address, which is how the spree ended.
他给了他们赫森的名字和地址，这就是这场狂欢的结束。
So there was Herson at the police station, facing 25 years in prison and crying.
于是赫森在警察局里，面临着25年的牢狱之灾，正在哭泣。
So when he finally tells police, look this is the story, he says, take a look at my phone.
所以当他最终告诉警察，看这就是故事，他说，看看我的手机。
Look at my Facebook account.
看看我的 Facebook 帐户。
Look at my email.
看看我的电子邮件。
It's all there.
一切都在那里。
He also told them, go to my car and in there, you'll find an immunity letter that Theo gave me.
他还告诉他们，到我的车里去，在那里，你会找到西奥给我的一封豁免信。
Theo had emailed Herson a letter on Defense Intelligence Agency letterhead, describing the bank operation, titled "Operation Down Strike," an operation involving civilian volunteers who would be immune from civil and criminal action.
西奥通过电子邮件向赫森发送了一封带有国防情报局抬头的信，描述了银行的行动，标题为“打击行动”，这项行动涉及平民志愿者，他们将免受民事和刑事诉讼。
It asks police that, upon receipt of the letter, to assist in the operation.
它要求警方在收到信件后协助行动。
The officer in charge, a veteran detective named John Vickery, was skeptical.
负责的警官是一位名叫约翰·维克里的资深侦探，他对此表示怀疑。
But the letter was perplexing.
但这封信却令人费解。
And then, six hours after Herson was arrested, Detective Vickery got a call from a number he didn't recognize.
然后，赫森被捕六小时后，维克里警探接到一个他不认识的号码打来的电话。
It was Theo.
是西奥。
He demanded to know what the police had done with Herson.
他要求知道警察对赫森做了什么。
He sounded authoritative and exasperated and explained that he was with the CIA.
他听起来很权威，很愤怒，并解释说他是中央情报局的。
Detective Vickery was truly confused.
维克里侦探真的很困惑。
After all, this was Virginia, CIA country.
毕竟，这是弗吉尼亚州，中央情报局的国家。
Vickery did deal with CIA people from time to time.
维克里确实时不时与中央情报局的人打交道。
But it seemed such a strange covert operation.
但这似乎是一次奇怪的秘密行动。
Theo demanded a face-to-face meeting with the detective's superiors.
西奥要求与侦探的上级进行面对面的会面。
Theo also called Washington area criminal defense lawyers, saying he was with the CIA and he needed to hire civilian counsel to defend Herson.
西奥还打电话给华盛顿地区的刑事辩护律师，称他在中央情报局工作，他需要聘请民事律师为赫森辩护。
The meeting place with the cops was set.
与警察的会面地点已经确定。
It would be at the courthouse during Herson's arraignment hearing.
赫森的传讯听证会期间将在法院举行。
Theo would be wearing an American flag pin on his black suit.
西奥将在他的黑色西装上佩戴美国国旗别针。
The day came, but Theo never showed.
那一天到来了，但西奥却没有露面。
Eventually, the encryption on Theo's phone number was broken and police traced the phone to a man called Josh Brady, who lived in a ranch house 100 miles south of Washington, D.C. The police drove down there, and in an instant, three things became clear.
最终，西奥电话号码的加密被破解，警方通过电话追踪到了一个名叫乔什·布雷迪 (Josh Brady) 的男子，他住在华盛顿特区以南 100 英里的一栋牧场房子里。警察驱车前往那里，瞬间，三件事就弄清楚了。
The first was that Theo and Josh were the same person.
首先，西奥和乔什是同一个人。
The second was that Josh was not working for the CIA.
第二个是乔什并不为中央情报局工作。
He was 26 and living with his mother and grandmother.
他今年 26 岁，与母亲和祖母住在一起。
And the third was that Josh was totally convinced that he was working for them.
第三，乔什完全相信他正在为他们工作。
Here's Tom.
这是汤姆。
I interviewed Josh in a jail in Virginia.
我在弗吉尼亚州的一所监狱采访了乔什。
And when I met with him, he told me pretty quickly that he was working with the CIA.
当我见到他时，他很快告诉我他正在与中央情报局合作。
And I would say he was firmly convinced at that time that they took a computer from his house that contained all the information to prove that this was legitimate.
我想说，他当时坚信他们从他家里拿走了一台计算机，其中包含所有信息以证明这是合法的。
Josh was initially charged with impersonating a government official and three counts of attempted bank robbery.
乔什最初被指控冒充政府官员和三项企图抢劫银行的罪名。
But doctors found that Josh suffered from a variety of mental illnesses and disorders, so prosecutors dropped those charges and Josh was released into his mother's care and ordered to get mental health treatment.
但医生发现乔什患有多种精神疾病和紊乱，因此检察官撤销了这些指控，乔什被释放到他母亲的照顾下，并被勒令接受心理健康治疗。
They declined to prosecute Herson and Carolina was never charged.
他们拒绝起诉赫森，卡罗莱纳也从未受到指控。
In the end, no one was prosecuted for the attempted bank robberies.
最终，没有人因企图抢劫银行而受到起诉。
But here's something I found especially interesting about this story.
但我发现这个故事特别有趣。
During the court proceedings, a court appointed forensic psychologist had offered a second opinion about Josh Brady.
在法庭审理过程中，法庭指定的法医心理学家对乔什·布雷迪提出了第二种意见。
He had diagnosed Josh with something really rare.
他诊断出乔什患有某种非常罕见的疾病。
It's a disorder that most people have never heard of.
这是一种大多数人从未听说过的疾病。
I'd never heard of it.
我从来没有听说过。
It's called delusional disorder.
这就是所谓的妄想症。
Herson Torres didn't want to talk to me for this story.
赫森·托雷斯不想和我谈论这个故事。
Maybe he felt embarrassed about being taken in by Josh.
也许他对被乔什收留感到尴尬。
But he shouldn't feel embarrassed, because the whole scheme, it was plausible.
但他不应该感到尴尬，因为整个计划，是合理的。
That's the amazing thing about delusional disorder, the delusions are plausible.
这就是妄想症的奇妙之处，妄想是有道理的。
I mean, we all know that there are indeed folks who seem perfectly normal but turn out to be undercover agents.
我的意思是，我们都知道确实有一些人看起来很正常，但结果却是卧底特工。
It doesn't violate the boundaries of reality.
它并不违反现实的界限。
This is Dr. Evan Nelson, the court psychologist who diagnosed Josh Brady with delusional disorder.
这是埃文·尼尔森博士，法庭心理学家，诊断乔什·布雷迪患有妄想症。
Dr. Nelson couldn't talk to me about Josh Brady's case, but he explained to me that delusional disorder is like a cousin to better known psychotic disorders like schizophrenia.
尼尔森医生无法与我谈论乔什·布雷迪的病例，但他向我解释说，妄想症就像精神分裂症等更为人所知的精神疾病的近亲。
The big difference is that people with schizophrenia have crazy delusions that nobody believes, like believing that the CIA is using telepathy to read your thoughts or believing that you're Jesus Christ.
最大的区别在于，精神分裂症患者有没人相信的疯狂妄想，比如相信中央情报局正在使用心灵感应来读取你的想法，或者相信你是耶稣基督。
Whereas the delusions that come with delusional disorder, they could be true.
尽管妄想症带来的妄想可能是真的。
It's the difference between believing people are following you, which is entirely possible, and believing they're following you because they've inserted some sort of an x-ray machine in your body and they can covertly track you through a satellite that's orbiting Mars.
这就是相信人们在跟踪你（这是完全有可能的）和相信他们在跟踪你是因为他们在你体内植入了某种 X 光机并且他们可以通过绕火星运行的卫星秘密跟踪你之间的区别。
That sort of violation of logic wouldn't be part of a delusional disorder.
这种违反逻辑的行为不会成为妄想症的一部分。
Delusional disorder is defined as a rare disorder, but a lot of clinicians like Dr. Nelson believe that it has to be under-diagnosed.
妄想症被定义为一种罕见的疾病，但像尼尔森博士这样的许多临床医生认为，这种疾病的诊断不足。
There have to be people out there who don't realize that they are living inside someone else's delusion-- like, for instance, my friend Emily, which isn't her real name.
一定有人没有意识到他们生活在别人的幻觉中——例如，我的朋友艾米丽，这不是她的真名。
And this isn't her real voice either.
而且这也不是她的真实声音。
Well, my husband had it, so I lived with someone with delusional disorder.
嗯，我丈夫得了这种病，所以我和一个患有妄想症的人住在一起。
When you say your husband had it, does that mean he doesn't have it any more?
当你说你丈夫有这个病时，是否意味着他不再有这个病了？
Emily asked to be disguised because she loves her husband and wants to protect his privacy.
艾米丽要求乔装打扮，因为她爱她的丈夫并想保护他的隐私。
And so in a show about secret identities, this weird robot voice is her one.
因此，在一部关于秘密身份的节目中，这个奇怪的机器人声音就是她的声音。
Emily is the reason why I ever got to hear about Herson and Theo.
艾米丽是我听说赫森和西奥的原因。
She sent me a link to Tom's article.
她给我发了汤姆文章的链接。
In the message she wrote, "Imagine being married to that.
她在留言中写道：“想象一下嫁给那个人。
LOL."
哈哈。”
By "that," Emily meant a marriage filled with the chaos of a plausible delusion.
艾米丽所说的“那个”是指一段充满似是而非的错觉的混乱婚姻。
I said I couldn't imagine it.
我说我无法想象。
So Emily agreed to talk about it.
所以艾米丽同意谈论这件事。
When Emily first met her husband and when they first got married, everything was fine.
当艾米丽第一次见到她的丈夫以及他们第一次结婚时，一切都很好。
He told her he'd been in a long term relationship before, but unfortunately it didn't work out.
他告诉她他以前曾有过一段长期恋爱关系，但不幸的是没有成功。
He told me that his previous partner had been extremely unfaithful, unfaithful in the extreme.
他告诉我，他以前的伴侣非常不忠，不忠到了极点。
At the time, I just thought, oh, that's dreadful.
当时我只是想，哦，这太可怕了。
You poor soul.
你这个可怜的灵魂。
I can't imagine what you've been through.
我无法想象你经历了什么。
Emily says that for the first five years of their marriage, everything was normal.
艾米丽说，在他们结婚的头五年里，一切都很正常。
But then her husband had a bad turn professionally.
但后来她丈夫的职业生涯却遭遇了糟糕的转折。
It stressed him out.
这让他压力很大。
He worried about his job prospects and his finances, but mainly he worried about losing Emily.
他担心自己的工作前景和财务状况，但主要担心失去艾米丽。
He started accusing her of having crushes and flirting with friends and coworkers.
他开始指责她迷恋并与朋友和同事调情。
I mean, it got to the point where I would be accused of sleeping with friends, coworkers, just random people.
我的意思是，事情已经到了我会被指责和朋友、同事、随便的人睡觉的地步。
Like if I caught someone's eye and smiled at them on the street, it would be, how do you know that person?
就像如果我在街上看到某人的目光并对他们微笑，我会问，你怎么认识那个人？
You had an affair with that guy, didn't you?
你和那个家伙有过关系，不是吗？
That's why he was smiling at you.
这就是为什么他对你微笑。
When would you have been having the affair?
你什么时候会有外遇？
Because I presume that every night you were sleeping in the same bed as him.
因为我猜你每天晚上都和他睡在同一张床上。
Yeah.
是的。
I mean, he would literally accuse me of getting up in the middle of night to go have secret assignations.
我的意思是，他真的会指责我半夜起床去执行秘密任务。
While he slept?
当他睡觉的时候？
Emily While he was asleep, yeah.
艾米丽 当他睡着的时候，是的。
So at this point, did you think this is beyond regular jealousy?
那么此时此刻，您是否认为这超出了正常的嫉妒范围？
Oh, absolutely.
哦，绝对是。
Jon Ronson There are five main subtypes identified with delusional disorder.
Jon Ronson 妄想症有五种主要亚型。
There's the persecutory type, believing a person or group of people are out to get you.
有一种是迫害型的，相信一个人或一群人想要陷害你。
There's the erotomanic type, believing a person-- usually a famous person-- is secretly in love with you and trying to be with you.
有一种色情狂类型，相信一个人（通常是名人）暗恋着你并试图和你在一起。
There is somatic, thinking you've got a medical or health condition you don't have.
有一种躯体感觉，认为你患有你没有的医疗或健康状况。
Grandiosity, thinking you're special or have a high status, like, say, believing you work undercover for the CIA.
浮夸，认为自己很特别或有很高的地位，比如相信自己为中央情报局做卧底。
And the last, as Emily discovered when she began desperately googling for some kind of explanation, delusional disorder jealousy subtype.
最后，正如艾米丽开始拼命搜索某种解释时发现的，妄想症嫉妒亚型。
The diagnosis made on the internet was later confirmed by a psychiatrist.
网上的诊断后来得到了精神科医生的证实。
Emily's husband's delusions weren't real, but his anger was.
艾米丽丈夫的妄想并不真实，但他的愤怒却是真实的。
Inside his delusion, she was cheating on him all the time.
在他的错觉里，她一直在欺骗他。
It was a living hell for them both.
这对他们俩来说简直就是人间地狱。
When someone's screaming at you for nine hours a day, your first response is maybe to get angry and scream back.
当有人每天对你尖叫九个小时时，你的第一反应可能是生气并尖叫回去。
But I would just watch him and it would almost be like the sound was turned down on a movie.
但我只是看着他，几乎就像电影的声音被调低了一样。
It was just so sad to watch him be in such distress and be so separated from reality.
看着他如此痛苦，如此脱离现实，真是令人难过。
It was just the saddest thing to watch and know that there's no way that you can help him.
这是最悲伤的事情，你知道你无法帮助他。
You know, I used to invite people over for Sunday dinner.
你知道，我曾经邀请人们来吃周日晚餐。
And I remember just him announcing to the table of diners that my wife has a lot of affairs.
我记得他刚刚向餐桌上的人宣布我的妻子有很多外遇。
She's a right slut.
她是一个正确的荡妇。
And you know, I didn't know whether to laugh it off or what.
你知道，我不知道是该一笑置之还是怎样。
What did the people around the table do?
桌子周围的人做了什么？
I mean, this happens a lot.
我的意思是，这种情况经常发生。
People maybe just thought he was joking.
人们可能只是认为他在开玩笑。
I mean, people just politely ignored it and moved on.
我的意思是，人们只是礼貌地忽略它并继续前进。
And people didn't know whether it was just a bad joke or what.
人们不知道这只是一个糟糕的笑话还是什么。
I had one chap that was convinced that I was the nymphomaniac that my husband had been boasting to everyone that I was.
我有一个小伙子确信我就是我丈夫一直向每个人吹嘘的花痴。
And so he came into the bedroom once when I was staying at a friend's house.
有一次，当我住在朋友家时，他走进了卧室。
And I just had to roll over and pretend to be asleep.
我只好翻身假装睡着了。
What?
什么？
Somebody came in and said I hear you enjoy having affairs with people.
有人进来说我听说你喜欢与人发生关系。
Would you care--
你会在意吗——
I mean, he didn't say anything, but he made a pass.
我的意思是，他什么也没说，但他做了一个通行证。
So I just pretended to be asleep, because this is a person that I knew and I didn't want to be embarrassed about seeing the next day.
所以我就假装睡着了，因为这是我认识的人，我不想第二天见面感到尴尬。
Wow!
哇！
He must have been so crushed, because, you know, you're sleeping with everyone.
他一定很崩溃，因为，你知道，你和每个人都上床了。
I know.
我知道。
Jon Ronson And this is a crazy question, but when a delusion is as powerful as these delusions were, was there ever a moment, even though you knew you weren't having any affairs with anyone, was there ever a moment when you thought, my god, maybe I am having an affair?
乔恩·罗森（Jon Ronson）这是一个疯狂的问题，但是当妄想像这些妄想一样强大时，是否有过某个时刻，即使你知道自己没有与任何人有任何外遇，是否有一个时刻你会想，天哪，也许我有外遇？
I was honestly-- I mean, because my husband is a very rational human being.
老实说，我的意思是，因为我的丈夫是一个非常理性的人。
I mean, he was highly scientific.
我的意思是，他非常科学。
So when someone's that rational and that grounded in that level of reality, there was a point where I just thought, well, maybe I'm sleepwalking or maybe I've got a multiple personality disorder or something.
因此，当某人如此理性并扎根于现实水平时，我就会想，好吧，也许我在梦游，或者也许我患有多重人格障碍或其他什么。
Wow.
哇。
Emily Maybe I am the one that's mad.
艾米丽 也许我是那个生气的人。
It's really difficult to treat delusional disorder.
治疗妄想症确实很困难。
Dr. Nelson, the forensic psychologist, says logic doesn't work.
法医心理学家尼尔森博士说逻辑不起作用。
They can't be talked out of it.
他们不能被说服。
Anti-psychotic medications can work wonders for people with schizophrenia because they're good at tackling hallucinations.
抗精神病药物对精神分裂症患者有奇效，因为它们能有效消除幻觉。
But for some reason, they're not so great on delusions.
但出于某种原因，他们不太擅长妄想。
Dr. Nelson says medication can sort of lessen the delusions a bit, but they can't make them disappear.
尼尔森博士说，药物可以稍微减轻妄想症，但不能让它们消失。
There is a best option, but it's a really frustrating one.
有一个最好的选择，但这是一个非常令人沮丧的选择。
Gradually over time, you reach a sort of a detente, which is they're not willing to admit that their idea is a delusion, but they're willing to admit that acting on it isn't in their best interest.
随着时间的推移，情况会逐渐缓和，即他们不愿意承认自己的想法是一种错觉，但他们愿意承认采取行动并不符合他们的最佳利益。
So I still suspect that my wife is cheating on me, but I know she says that it's not true.
所以我仍然怀疑我的妻子在欺骗我，但我知道她说这不是真的。
And I want to trust her.
我想相信她。
And our marriage is good, and every time I bring this up I make it worse.
我们的婚姻本来很好，但每次我提起这件事，我都会让事情变得更糟。
So maybe I'll just have to tolerate a little bit of infidelity in exchange for keeping this marriage.
所以也许我只能忍受一点不忠，以换取维持这段婚姻。
Huh.
呵呵。
So convince them that open marriages are the way forward.
因此，请让他们相信开放式婚姻是前进的道路。
[LAUGHS] Well, I don't know that that's necessarily an open marriage.
[笑]嗯，我不知道这一定是开放式婚姻。
I don't think they're consenting.
我认为他们不同意。
But you're definitely talking about compromises.
但你肯定在谈论妥协。
Same thing with the persecutory type and the grandiose type.
迫害型和浮夸型也是如此。
You may not get to the point where they agree that they weren't really acting as a special agent for the FBI, or where they agree that there isn't really a plot against them.
你可能无法达到他们同意他们并不是真正充当联邦调查局特工的地步，或者他们同意没有真正针对他们的阴谋。
But you might get them to the point where they agree that from a practical level, you've never been paid for your work from the FBI, so why bother to keep working for them?
但你可能会让他们同意，从实际层面来看，你从未从联邦调查局获得过报酬，那么为什么还要费心继续为他们工作呢？
The only way to move forward is for everyone to be submissive to the delusion.
前进的唯一方法就是每个人都屈服于妄想。
So someone like Emily never gets justice, never gets an apology for being taken all wrong.
所以像艾米丽这样的人永远不会得到正义，也永远不会因为自己的错误而得到道歉。
The delusion always wins.
妄想总是会获胜。
A few years ago Emily and her husband split up.
几年前，艾米丽和她的丈夫分手了。
You know, people and places are triggers.
你知道，人和地方都是触发器。
So I actually became a trigger in my husband's life.
所以我实际上成为了我丈夫生活的触发者。
So the only way for him to be healthy is to remove the triggers.
因此，让他保持健康的唯一方法就是消除触发因素。
So that's him moving to another new town and leaving me.
所以他搬到了另一个新城镇并离开了我。
And I'm sure that he'll find another woman in a new town, tell her the same story about the wife that was extremely unfaithful, and the cycle will begin again.
我确信他会在一个新的城镇找到另一个女人，告诉她同样的关于妻子极其不忠的故事，然后这个循环将再次开始。
Incidentally, Josh Brady, the fake CIA agent who orchestrated the robberies, has been arrested again.
顺便说一句，策划抢劫的假中央情报局特工乔什·布雷迪再次被捕。
A little under two months after he was released and remanded to psychiatric counseling, he was picked up again, this time charged with impersonating a Department of Homeland Security agent.
在他被释放并还押接受精神咨询不到两个月后，他再次被捕，这次被指控冒充国土安全部特工。
Jon Ronson.
乔恩·罗森.
His latest book of nonfiction stories, Lost at Sea , comes out in paperback this week.
他最新的非小说类小说集《迷失在海上》本周以平装本出版。
Coming up, a woman avenger takes to the streets with a gun and a mission of justice.
接下来，一名女复仇者带着枪走上街头，肩负正义使命。
Men fear her, nobody knows her name.
男人们都害怕她，没有人知道她的名字。
That's one of the stories after the break in a minute for Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
这是芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台一分钟休息后我们的节目继续进行时的故事之一。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, Secret Identities.
今天的节目是《秘密身份》。
We have arrived at Act Two of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, Tiger Tiger, Burning Bright.
第二幕，虎虎，燃烧光明。
Elna Baker, who's on our program now and then, has this cousin named Navey.
埃尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）时不时地出现在我们的节目中，她的表弟名叫纳维（Navey）。
And Navey has a secret identity that actually isn't so secret.
纳维的秘密身份实际上并不那么秘密。
She's the school mascot, a tiger, at Gilbert High in Gilbert, Arizona.
她是亚利桑那州吉尔伯特市吉尔伯特高中的学校吉祥物，一只老虎。
And she's one of those kids who's just completely transformative.
她是那些完全变革的孩子之一。
Her second identity gives her power.
她的第二个身份赋予了她力量。
Here's Elna to explain.
艾尔娜来解释一下。
I used to babysit Navey.
我曾经照顾过纳维。
And she's always been able to completely lose herself in characters to a degree, honestly, you don't see in most kids.
老实说，她总是能够在某种程度上完全迷失在角色中，这在大多数孩子身上是看不到的。
Like when Navey was four or five, she was obsessed with dogs.
就像纳维四五岁的时候一样，她对狗很着迷。
So she'd tape a tube sock to her butt for a tail and crawl on all fours.
所以她会把一只筒袜绑在屁股上作为尾巴，然后用四肢爬行。
She drank from a bowl.
她用碗喝水。
She'd do that thing where she'd drag her butt along the carpet to scratch it.
她会做这样的事情：她拖着屁股沿着地毯刮擦。
She'd sniff people's crotches.
她会闻别人的胯部。
She was method.
她很有方法。
We had old collars, dog collars around the house.
我们家里有旧项圈、狗项圈。
I'd put those on.
我会把它们戴上。
And I'd tie a leash to the little stroller and I'd run around the house pretending I was a sled dog.
我会在小婴儿车上系上皮带，然后在房子里跑来跑去，假装自己是一只雪橇犬。
I mean, I was fine with her being a dog, until she started crapping in our yard.
我的意思是，我对她是一只狗没什么意见，直到她开始在我们的院子里拉屎。
I didn't think that was very funny.
我不认为这很有趣。
[LAUGHS] It is funny, though.
[笑] 不过这很有趣。
That's Navey's dad, Karl.
那是纳维的父亲卡尔。
And at first I thought he was joking.
起初我以为他是在开玩笑。
But it turns out, one day he's looking out the window--
但事实证明，有一天他看着窗外——
And I'm watching her and she's acting like a dog, walking around the backyard.
我看着她，她表现得像条狗，在后院走来走去。
And the next thing you know, she takes her pants and goes crap in the backyard.
接下来你知道的，她脱掉裤子，在后院撒尿。
And then I kicked my feet back to cover up the poop.
然后我把脚向后踢，以盖住粪便。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
And now I don't know how many times she did it before that.
现在我不知道她之前做过多少次了。
This whole time I was picking up my dog's poop, I may have been picking up my kid's poop.
我一直在捡我的狗的粪便，我可能也在捡我孩子的粪便。
And as she got older, Navey discovered a more socially acceptable way to do the same thing, when, in second grade, the elementary school mascot-- a husky dog-- stopped by her class for the first time.
随着年龄的增长，纳维发现了一种更能被社会接受的方式来做同样的事情，二年级时，小学吉祥物——一只哈士奇狗——第一次出现在她的班级里。
Navey's mind was blown, because here's this person who got to act like an animal all the time.
纳维大吃一惊，因为这个人总是表现得像动物一样。
She became obsessed with mascots.
她开始迷恋吉祥物。
I know this because I babysat her for a whole week when she was 10.
我知道这一点是因为在她 10 岁的时候我照顾了她整整一个星期。
And while her siblings were outside in the yard playing, Navey was inside practicing mascot routines she'd found on YouTube.
当她的兄弟姐妹在外面院子里玩耍时，纳维正在里面练习她在 YouTube 上找到的吉祥物动作。
She'd be dressed up in this old tiger Halloween costume, a tiger because that's the mascot for the local high school.
她会穿上这套旧的老虎万圣节服装，一只老虎，因为那是当地高中的吉祥物。
All of this started to worry Navey's dad, Karl.
所有这一切开始让纳维的父亲卡尔担心。
He was really hoping it would be a passing phase.
他真的希望这会是一个过渡阶段。
I don't know if many parents wake up one morning and go, oh my gosh, I can't wait for my daughter to be a mascot.
我不知道是否有很多父母一天早上醒来都会说，天哪，我迫不及待地想让我的女儿成为吉祥物。
And did you make fun of mascots when you were in high school or middle school?
当你在高中或初中的时候，你是否取笑过吉祥物？
Now that's kind of an awkward question.
这是一个有点尴尬的问题。
Doesn't everybody?
大家不都是这样吗？
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
I remember being in junior high and really just trying to fit in.
我记得在初中的时候，我真的只是想融入其中。
And I just didn't know if being this would be something that she would be accepted in.
我只是不知道她是否会接受这样的事情。
I mean, is this something that she gets branded as the odd girl who likes to dress up like a tiger?
我是说，这就是她被贴上“喜欢打扮成老虎的奇怪女孩”的标签吗？
For years, her parents kept trying to get her interested in other things.
多年来，她的父母一直试图让她对其他事情感兴趣。
More quote, unquote, "normal things" like ballet, Girl Scouts.
更多引用，取消引用，“正常的事情”，如芭蕾舞、女童子军。
But Navey had tiger tunnel vision.
但纳维有着老虎般的狭隘视野。
It all came to a head one Friday night at her brother's football game.
一个周五晚上，在她哥哥的橄榄球比赛中，这一切都达到了顶峰。
Our older son was playing football in high school, and Navey's still in junior high.
我们的大儿子在高中踢足球，纳维还在上初中。
And I came home from work and I'm like, hey, Navey, we gotta hurry up.
当我下班回家时，我想，嘿，纳维，我们得快点了。
We gotta get to Justin's game.
我们得去看贾斯汀的比赛了。
And I was like, I want to wear my mascot costume.
我当时想，我想穿上我的吉祥物服装。
Please let me wear it.
请让我穿上它。
I thought in my head, I says, I don't know if I feel comfortable with me taking my daughter to a football game dressed up like a mascot at a high school, because A, you don't go to high school there, and it's just kind of bizarre me walking into a football game with a tiger.
我心里想，我说，我不知道带我女儿打扮成高中吉祥物去观看橄榄球比赛是否舒服，因为A，你不在那里上高中，而我和一只老虎一起走进橄榄球比赛有点奇怪。
And I was like, I don't want to go to the game if I can't wear my suit.
我当时想，如果我不能穿西装，我就不想去看比赛。
And I says, you know what?
我说，你知道吗？
Then stay home.
然后呆在家里。
So we're at the football game and she's texting my wife and just saying, hey, you don't love me.
我们正在看足球比赛，她给我妻子发短信说，嘿，你不爱我。
You don't support me as the mascot.
你不支持我当吉祥物。
You love the football player son, but you don't love the mascot daughter.
你爱足球运动员的儿子，但你不爱吉祥物的女儿。
And finally she texts me and she goes, listen, I still want to.
最后她发短信给我，她说，听着，我仍然想听。
Can I please come to the game?
我可以来参加比赛吗？
So we say, your grandma and grandpa haven't got here yet.
所以我们说，你的奶奶和爷爷还没来。
We'll call them, they'll pick you up.
我们会给他们打电话，他们会来接你。
And I took that as hey, I can wear the costume.
我认为嘿，我可以穿这套服装。
So I get in the car, I'm wearing my costume.
所以我上了车，穿着我的服装。
And my grandpa just said, did they say that you could wear it?
我爷爷就说，他们说你可以穿吗？
I was like, yeah.
我当时想，是的。
And so I showed up, got out of the car.
于是我出现了，下了车。
And everyone was like, oh my gosh.
每个人都说，天哪。
Hey, it's the tiger.
嘿，这是老虎。
And then I go and I look up and I was like, oh there's my parents.
然后我走过去，抬头一看，我就想，哦，那是我的父母。
And I could tell they were not happy.
我看得出来他们不高兴。
And she looks at us, we look at her and those big giant mascot eyes.
她看着我们，我们看着她和那些吉祥物的大眼睛。
And she beelined it onto the field.
她径直走到了球场上。
And I thought, oh my gosh, what's going to happen?
我想，天哪，会发生什么？
The sophomore cheerleaders didn't realize that she wasn't supposed to be there.
二年级啦啦队员们没有意识到她不应该在那里。
And she's unbelievable.
她令人难以置信。
The crowd loves her.
群众爱她。
She's doing the wave, she's doing the cheer, she's leading the cheerleaders, football players are taking pictures with her.
她在挥手，她在欢呼，她在带领拉拉队，足球运动员在和她合影。
And no one has idea that it's a girl that's in eighth grade.
没有人知道这是一个八年级的女孩。
They said everyone loved me.
他们说每个人都爱我。
The crowd was cheering for me.
人群为我欢呼。
Oh!
哦！
I fricking love-- I can't even tell you!
我他妈的爱——我什至不能告诉你！
I feel like this is my calling.
我觉得这就是我的使命。
And that's when I finally said, listen, you have a gift.
就在那时我终于说，听着，你有天赋。
You should go and do it 100%.
你应该100%去做。
This ended up being her big break.
这最终成为她的重大突破。
The high school athletic director was there and he came up to her after and said, look, if you want to do this again, just let us know.
高中体育主任也在场，之后他走到她面前说，听着，如果你想再做一次，请告诉我们。
You're great.
你太棒了。
And then he told her that she should try out to be the mascot when she got to high school.
然后他告诉她，当她进入高中时，应该尝试成为吉祥物。
So since freshman year she's been the Gilbert High tiger.
所以从大一开始，她就一直是吉尔伯特高中的老虎。
And all family pride aside, she is the best mascot I have ever seen.
抛开所有的家庭自豪感不谈，她是我见过的最好的吉祥物。
When she puts her costume on, which looks like a buff Tigger, Navey transforms.
当她穿上看起来像浅黄色跳跳虎的服装时，纳维就变身了。
[CROWD CHEERING] She goes from being this awkward husky Mormon tomboy-- right, she's Mormon-- but she puts the costume on and then starts grinding like a male stripper.
[人群欢呼]她不再是一个笨拙、沙哑的摩门教假小子——没错，她是摩门教——但她穿上了服装，然后开始像一个男性脱衣舞娘一样磨磨蹭蹭。
And it's hard not to think, are we allowed to do that?
很难不去想，我们可以这样做吗？
The kid has serious swagger.
这孩子有严重的招摇。
There's times where I sometimes forget it's my daughter.
有时我有时会忘记这是我的女儿。
I don't picture her dancing because she doesn't walk around the house dancing.
我想象不到她跳舞，因为她不会在房子里走来走去跳舞。
Immediately when she puts that outfit on, she knows all these moves.
当她穿上那件衣服时，她就知道所有这些动作。
She can pretty much do any of the new fad dance moves.
她几乎可以跳任何新流行的舞蹈动作。
Beyonce's "Single Ladies," she can do that.
碧昂丝的《单身女士》，她就能做到。
She can do Psy.
她可以做Psy。
She can do Michael Jackson.
她可以演迈克尔·杰克逊。
The two don't really match up.
两人实在不般配。
It's bizarre.
这很奇怪。
She's been on the news, she's in the paper.
她上了新闻，上了报纸。
In town her parents are known as the Tiger's parents.
在镇上，她的父母被称为“老虎的父母”。
Some people come to games just to see her.
有些人来看比赛就是为了看她。
The football team sucks.
足球队很糟糕。
Sorry, Navey.
对不起，纳维。
And she's gotten so much attention that recently the Suns Gorilla-- that's the mascot for the Phoenix Suns-- tweeted at her, "You're inspiring.
她受到了如此多的关注，以至于最近太阳大猩猩——菲尼克斯太阳队的吉祥物——在推特上对她说：“你鼓舞人心。
That's no hashtag monkey business."
这不是什么话题标签猴子生意。”
Here she is at a dance-off against her rival, the Chandler Wolf.
在这里，她正在与她的对手钱德勒·沃尔夫进行一场舞蹈比赛。
They're staring each other down across the 50 yard line.
他们在 50 码线外互相凝视。
There's the tiger!
那里有老虎！
There's the tiger!
那里有老虎！
We love the tiger!
我们爱老虎！
The wolf does the lawn mower.
狼会割草机。
Navey, as the tiger, throws her head back and laughs, as if to say, that all you got?
纳维扮演的老虎，仰起头大笑，好像在说，你就只有这些吗？
And then she busts out "Gangnam Style."
然后她演唱了《江南Style》。
[CROWD CHEERING] She dances around him in a circle, shuffling and shimmying on the turns.
[人群欢呼]她绕着他跳舞，在转弯处拖着脚步摇摆。
And then she stops, face-to-face, and flicks her paws at him like, what are you going to do about it?
然后她停下来，面对面地向他挥动爪子，好像在说，你打算怎么办？
And then, slowly, she backs away.
然后，她慢慢地后退。
And he shrugs, like I have nothing, and then bows to her, shakes her hand, and walks off the field.
他耸耸肩，好像我一无所有，然后向她鞠躬，握了握她的手，然后走出了球场。
OK, so that insanely confident person?
好吧，那么那个非常自信的人呢？
Cut to the next day at school and she's just this super awkward teenager who doesn't want any attention drawn to her.
镜头切换到第二天在学校，她只是一个超级尴尬的青少年，不想引起任何人的注意。
Navey Baker is shy.
纳维·贝克很害羞。
During classes I just won't talk to kids around me.
上课时我不会和周围的孩子说话。
I just sit there and do my work, be quiet.
我只是坐在那里做我的工作，保持安静。
I'm nervous to go to Taco Bell and order me a fricking burrito.
我很紧张要去塔可钟并给我点一份该死的墨西哥卷饼。
Yeah, it's like Superman.
是的，就像超人一样。
I mean, Superman, he's got glasses and a suit and tie.
我是说，超人，他戴着眼镜，穿着西装，打着领带。
And then all of a sudden, he rips the suit and tie off and he's Superman.
然后突然之间，他撕掉了西装并解掉了领带，他就成了超人。
Except I put clothes on to become a tiger.
只是我穿上衣服变成了一只老虎。
This is how extreme it is.
这是多么极端的事情。
Navey's never been able to do a cartwheel.
纳维从来都不会侧手翻。
But then one practice with all the cheerleaders there, she thought, the tiger would do a cartwheel right now.
但当她和所有啦啦队员一起练习时，她想，老虎现在会做侧手翻。
And so she did one, just like that.
于是她就这么做了，就像那样。
She's done cartwheels in front of thousands since.
从那以后，她在数千人面前翻了跟头。
But then Navey the person still can't do a cartwheel, which seemed impossible to me.
但纳维这个人仍然不会侧手翻，这对我来说似乎是不可能的。
So I asked her to try one out of costume.
所以我请她试穿一件服装。
[LAUGHING] This is scary.
[笑]这太可怕了。
I might hit something.
我可能会撞到什么东西。
Navey pushed off and crumbled to the ground.
纳维推开并摔倒在地。
[GIGGLING] Elna Baker It wasn't an act.
[咯咯笑]埃尔娜·贝克 这不是表演。
It was horrible.
太可怕了。
Nope!
没有！
Elna Baker You had a good start, but--
艾尔娜·贝克（Elna Baker）你有一个良好的开端，但是——
I did.
我做到了。
Elna Baker What made you give up the minute your hands touched the floor?
埃尔娜·贝克 (Elna Baker) 是什么让您在双手接触地板的那一刻就放弃了？
I don't know.
我不知道。
I got scared and I sat down.
我很害怕，就坐下了。
So I told her to put her tiger costume on and try again.
所以我告诉她穿上老虎服装再试一次。
[ZIPPER] Elna Baker All right, you're all zipped up.
[拉链] Elna Baker 好吧，你的拉链都拉上了。
And now for the head.
现在来说说头部。
Ugh, hang on.
呃，坚持住。
Ugh, it's hard to breathe in here.
呃，这里呼吸困难。
All right, talk to me.
好吧，跟我说话吧。
Do you feel different all the sudden?
你是不是突然感觉不一样了？
Yeah, definitely.
是的，绝对是。
My heart's racing right now.
我现在心跳加速。
My legs feel like running a mile.
我的双腿感觉就像跑了一英里。
I just feel like let's go crazy.
我只是觉得我们要发疯了。
Let's go slide somewhere.
我们去某个地方滑滑梯吧。
Let's go slide on my belly onto the court.
让我们趴在球场上滑行吧。
All right.
好的。
Here we go, tiger.
来了，老虎。
Let's see this cartwheel.
我们来看看这个侧手翻。
Oh wow!
哦哇！
You did it!
你做到了！
All right!
好的！
[LAUGHING]
[笑]
Tiger is fist pumping the air.
老虎用拳头抽气。
Tiger's bowing.
老虎鞠躬。
All right, you want to take your hat off?
好吧，你想脱掉帽子吗？
Ah!
啊!
Phew!
唷！
I felt a lot better doing it in the costume than I did outside the costume.
我穿着戏服比戏服外感觉好多了。
What is it about that costume that lets you be that way?
那件服装是什么让你成为这样的人？
Well, definitely the fact that no one can see your face.
好吧，毫无疑问，没有人能看到你的脸。
So no one's like, oh, who's that?
所以没有人会说，哦，那是谁？
Oh, they look stupid.
哦，他们看起来很蠢。
So that's another thing I'm scared of.
所以这是我害怕的另一件事。
Like, oh, people are going to judge me from what I look like.
就像，哦，人们会根据我的外表来评判我。
I have broad shoulders, big old calves.
我有宽阔的肩膀，又大又老的小腿。
And it's just, I'm a big kid.
只是，我是个大孩子了。
So I mean, the tiger's based off of what I really want to be, like this realest person who doesn't care.
所以我的意思是，老虎是基于我真正想成为的人，就像这个不在乎的最真实的人。
When you watch Navey on stage, it's clear that she's the one with the confidence.
当你看到纳维在舞台上时，很明显她就是那个充满自信的人。
This is Navey's confidence, it's not the tiger's.
这是纳维的自信，不是老虎的自信。
I keep trying to get her to see this.
我一直试图让她看到这一点。
But the more I grill her, the more she insists, it's the tiger.
但我越拷问她，她就越坚持，是老虎。
It's all the tiger.
都是老虎啊
Elna Baker is the author of the memoir The New York Regional Mormon Singles Halloween Dance.
埃尔娜·贝克 (Elna Baker) 是回忆录《纽约地区摩门教单身万圣节舞会》的作者。
Act Three, Blond Avenger.
第三幕，金发复仇者。
As we were putting together this week's radio show, we heard about a real life avenger with a secret identity in Mexico on the roads that run through Juarez, that incredibly violent city near the border, and to the maquilas, the factories on the border.
当我们整理本周的广播节目时，我们听说现实生活中的墨西哥有一个秘密身份的复仇者，他的道路穿过华雷斯（靠近边境的暴力城市）和边境工厂。
Writer Yuri Herrera lived on the border for years and spent a lot of time in Juarez.
作家尤里·埃雷拉（Yuri Herrera）在边境生活了多年，并在华雷斯度过了很多时间。
It's the inspiration for the setting of his first novel.
这是他第一部小说的背景灵感。
And he tells the true story of what is going on with this right now.
他讲述了目前正在发生的事情的真实故事。
A warning that much of the story is not right for little kids and mentions sexual violence.
警告说故事的大部分内容不适合小孩子，并提到了性暴力。
The first murder happened at 7:45 AM on August 28th on bus route 4A.
第一起谋杀案发生在 8 月 28 日早上 7 点 45 分，发生在 4A 路公交车上。
That morning, a woman hailed bus 718, climbed the steps, pulled a gun, and shot the driver.
那天早上，一名女子叫了718路公交车，爬上台阶，拔出枪，向司机开枪。
The driver jumped out of the bus trying to escape, but died on the sidewalk.
司机跳下车试图逃跑，但死在人行道上。
The killer, witnesses said, was a middle-aged woman with dyed blond hair-- or maybe it was a wig-- wearing a cap, plaid shirt and jeans.
目击者称，凶手是一名中年妇女，头发染成金色——也可能是假发——戴着帽子，穿着格子衬衫和牛仔裤。
Nobody saw how she escaped, or at least nobody would say.
没有人看到她是如何逃脱的，或者至少没有人会说。
The second murder happened 24 hours later on the same route.
24小时后，第二起谋杀案发生在同一条路线上。
A woman boarded the bus downtown and a few blocks later requested a stop.
一名妇女登上了市中心的公交车，几个街区后要求停车。
She walked towards the exit and motioned as if she were looking for the bus fare.
她朝出口走去，做了个手势，好像在找公交车费。
But instead she drew her gun, spat words into the driver's ear, and shot him twice in the head, then fled the scene.
但她却拔出了枪，对着司机的耳朵吐了几枪，朝他的头部开了两枪，然后逃离了现场。
One day later, a news website from El Paso called La Polaca, which specializes in covering the political gossip of Juarez, received an email.
一天后，埃尔帕索一家专门报道华雷斯政治八卦的新闻网站 La Polaca 收到了一封电子邮件。
"You think that because we are women, we are weak.
“你认为因为我们是女性，所以我们很弱。
And that may be true.
这可能是真的。
But only up to a point.
但仅限于某一点。
Because even though we have nobody to defend us and we have to work long hours until late into the night to earn a living for our families, we can no longer be silent in the face of these acts that enrage us.
因为，尽管我们没有人保护我们，我们必须长时间工作到深夜才能养家糊口，但面对这些激怒我们的行为，我们不能再保持沉默。
We were victims of sexual violence from bus drivers working the maquila night shifts here in Juarez.
我们是华雷斯夜班巴士司机性暴力的受害者。
And although a lot of people know about the things we've suffered, nobody defends us nor does anything to protect us.
尽管很多人都知道我们所遭受的事情，但没有人为我们辩护，也没有采取任何行动来保护我们。
That's why I am an instrument that will take revenge for many women.
这就是为什么我是一个为许多女人报仇的工具。
For we are seen as weak, but in reality we are not.
因为我们被视为弱者，但实际上我们并非如此。
We are brave.
我们很勇敢。
And if we don't get respect, we will earn that respect with our own hands.
如果我们得不到尊重，我们将用自己的双手赢得尊重。
We, the women of Juarez, are strong." The email was signed by someone calling herself Diana, Hunter of Bus Drivers.
我们，华雷斯的女性，是坚强的。”这封电子邮件的签名者是一位自称公交车司机猎人戴安娜的人。
This year marks the 20th anniversary of the first disappearances of young women in Juarez, or at least when people started recording these disappearances and considering them as being related, after a 13-year-old girl was kidnapped and then found dead with signs of rape and strangulation.
今年是华雷斯首次年轻女性失踪 20 周年，或者至少是当人们开始记录这些失踪事件并认为它们之间存在关联时，一名 13 岁女孩被绑架，然后被发现死亡，有强奸和勒死的迹象。
After that, the number of women who were killed just kept growing.
此后，被杀的女性人数不断增加。
It went from dozens of reported murders in a year to hundreds-- so many women, it was hard to count accurately.
一年内报告的谋杀案从数十起增加到数百起——女性数量如此之多，很难准确统计。
In 2010, the number peaked.
2010年，这一数字达到顶峰。
At least 304 women were murdered that year.
那一年至少有 304 名女性被谋杀。
The circumstances of the crimes were eerily similar.
犯罪情节惊人地相似。
One day, a girl would disappear on the way to work or on the way home.
有一天，一名女孩在上班或回家的路上失踪。
And if there was any news about her, it would be when her body was founded in the desert or an abandoned lot, often with traces of rape and torture.
如果有任何关于她的消息，那就是当她的尸体在沙漠或废弃地被发现时，常常带有强奸和酷刑的痕迹。
Sometimes they were found together in mass graves.
有时他们被发现一起埋在乱葬坑中。
Oscar Maynez, who worked some of these cases as a criminologist, explained to me the way the authorities became complicit in the murders.
奥斯卡·梅内斯（Oscar Maynez）作为犯罪学家研究了其中一些案件，他向我解释了当局如何成为谋杀案的同谋。
First, they deny the problem, he said.
他说，首先，他们否认这个问题。
Then they played it down.
然后他们淡化了它。
And finally they blamed the victims' lifestyle and their families.
最后，他们将责任归咎于受害者的生活方式及其家人。
The criminologist resigned, he says, after realizing his superiors were more interested in covering up investigations and tampering with evidence than in finding justice.
他说，这位犯罪学家在意识到上级更感兴趣的是掩盖调查和篡改证据而不是伸张正义后，辞职了。
So when I heard about the case of this woman, this Diana, who supposedly was trying to do something by herself, I wondered, after all these years without justice, if women in Juarez would look at Diana and say, it's about time.
因此，当我听说这个女人，这个戴安娜的案件，据说她试图自己做点什么时，我想知道，在这么多年没有正义的情况下，华雷斯的女性是否会看着戴安娜说，是时候了。
So I went down there to ask them.
于是我就去那里问他们。
As you can imagine, most of the women I approached to get their opinions were reluctant to speak to a stranger about the woman who'd murdered bus drivers.
正如你可以想象的那样，我采访的大多数寻求意见的女性都不愿意与陌生人谈论谋杀公交车司机的女人。
"I know nothing about it," said a woman with a small child on the bus, only to fix her eyes on the back of the seat afterwards and not glance in my direction again.
“我对此一无所知。”公交车上一位带着小孩的女士说道，但随后她的目光就固定在椅背上，没有再看我的方向。
"I have no opinion about that," another one said before quickly entering a mall.
“我对此没有意见，”另一名男子在快速进入购物中心之前说道。
But also one day I got this answer.
但有一天我得到了这个答案。
"When I heard about what she did, I said, how great that someone's doing what many of us should have done."
“当我听说她所做的事情时，我说，有人在做我们许多人应该做的事情，真是太棒了。”
This was Laura, 25 years old, pregnant with her second child.
这是劳拉，25 岁，怀着她的第二个孩子。
When I asked her if you were to run into Diana on the street, what would you say to her if you knew it was her?
当我问她如果你在街上遇到戴安娜时，如果你知道是她，你会对她说什么？
She said, "without a doubt, I would congratulate her."
她说：“毫无疑问，我会祝贺她。”
There is a sense among the general population that buses are a bad place to be by yourself.
普通民众有一种感觉，认为公共汽车不是一个人呆在公共汽车上的好地方。
Just this week, a bus driver was arrested for allegedly raping a girl on her way to school.
就在本周，一名公交车司机因涉嫌在上学途中强奸一名女孩而被捕。
About this Laura said, "I remember when I was in high school, I would hear a lot about it.
对此，劳拉说：“我记得在高中的时候，我听到过很多这样的事情。
My friends would say to me, if you're going on the route and no one's there, take a pen with you with the point facing outward, because you never know.
我的朋友会对我说，如果你要走在路上而没有人在那里，那就带一支笔，笔尖朝外，因为你永远不知道会发生什么。
That's been happening for years-- years.
这种情况已经发生很多年了。
And it's the same for the ladies working in the maquilas."
对于在加工工厂工作的女士来说也是如此。”
There's no evidence that the bus drivers who were killed by the blond woman had actually committed a crime at all.
没有证据表明被金发女郎杀害的公交车司机实际上犯了罪。
But Laura didn't seem concerned about that.
但劳拉似乎并不关心这一点。
In a city where justice rarely brings results, maybe at some point you settle to get the justice available to you.
在一个正义很少带来结果的城市，也许在某个时刻你会安定下来，让正义伸张给你。
Just a couple of weeks before the Diana the hunter case, Laura's younger sister, Maria Alejandra, 20 years old, suffered a home invasion.
就在猎人戴安娜案发生前几周，劳拉 20 岁的妹妹玛丽亚·亚历杭德拉 (Maria Alejandra) 遭遇入室盗窃。
A man came in through her bedroom window in the night armed with a gun and tried to rape her.
夜间，一名男子持枪从她卧室的窗户闯进来，试图强奸她。
She recognized him.
她认出了他。
He lived in the neighborhood.
他住在附近。
After the man left her house, Maria Alejandra told her sister what happened and that she was going to report it to the police.
这名男子离开她的家后，玛丽亚·亚历杭德拉告诉她的妹妹发生了什么事，并表示她要向警方报案。
Laura told her not to do that.
劳拉告诉她不要这样做。
What for?
做什么的？
They knew how the police work.
他们知道警察是如何工作的。
Laura told me, "I told her not to go, not to expose herself, because they would ask questions and check her.
劳拉告诉我，“我告诉她不要去，不要暴露自己，因为他们会问问题并检查她。
I think between the police, they've created a sort of code.
我认为警察之间已经制定了某种规则。
So you basically are putting yourself out there to suffer one humiliation after another.
所以你基本上是在让自己遭受一次又一次的羞辱。
"My father was with us.
“我父亲和我们在一起。
He wanted to go kill him.
他想去杀了他。
And my husband too, and me too.
我的丈夫也是，我也是。
"I said, I'll kill him.
“我说过，我要杀了他。
I said I'll go and I'll kill him.
我说我去杀了他。
Since we know who it is, we are going to go and do it with our own hands."
既然我们知道是谁，我们就要亲手去做。”
But despite Laura's pleading, Maria Alejandra, after talking to her friends, decided to go to the police anyway.
但尽管劳拉苦苦哀求，玛丽亚·亚历杭德拉在与朋友交谈后还是决定报警。
And things went down exactly as Laura predicted.
事情的发展正如劳拉所预料的那样。
Even though the doctors had said that there was evidence of sexual assault, Maria Alejandra says the police questioned her as if she was making it all up.
尽管医生说有性侵犯的证据，但玛丽亚·亚历杭德拉说，警方对她的询问就好像她在编造这一切一样。
Why didn't she have bruises?
为什么她身上没有瘀伤？
What took her so long to report the intrusion?
是什么让她花了这么长时间才报告入侵事件？
"I would have to almost be dying for them to investigate," Maria Alejandra says they told her.
玛丽亚·亚历杭德拉说，他们告诉她：“我几乎迫不及待地想让他们调查。”
Laura was angry.
劳拉很生气。
Now the opportunity for revenge was gone.
现在报仇的机会已经没有了。
"I said to her, I told you.
“我对她说，我告诉过你。
We should have done something before.
我们之前就应该做点什么。
"Because now if we took action, they would know who did it.
“因为现在如果我们采取行动，他们就会知道是谁干的。
Because that's how justice works here.
因为这就是正义在这里的运作方式。
The victims are the ones that are in jail."
受害者是那些被关在监狱里的人。”
In 2001, police did apprehend a bus driver, Victor Garcia Uribe.
2001 年，警方逮捕了一名公交车司机维克多·加西亚·乌里韦 (Victor Garcia Uribe)。
He was arrested with a colleague and accused of murdering eight women who were left in an old cotton field.
他与一名同事被捕，并被指控谋杀了八名被留在旧棉田里的妇女。
He denied any involvement in the killings, but the police kept questioning him.
他否认与杀人事件有任何关系，但警方不断审问他。
Finally, after long hours of interrogation, he confessed to taking part in those murders and in the murders of three other women.
最后，经过长时间的审讯，他承认参与了这些谋杀案以及另外三名妇女的谋杀案。
Yes, he said, he enjoyed killing them.
是的，他说，他喜欢杀掉他们。
Yes, he said, they did it under the influence of marijuana, cocaine, and alcohol.
是的，他说，他们是在大麻、可卡因和酒精的影响下这么做的。
Yes, they loved to rape them and kill them, and then they would throw them afterwards in an empty field.
是的，他们喜欢强奸并杀死他们，然后把他们扔到空地上。
But two days later in court, Garcia Uribe did a complete 180.
但两天后，在法庭上，加西亚·乌里韦来了一个一百八十度大转弯。
Again he denied that he was involved in the murders.
他再次否认自己参与了谋杀案。
He said he only confessed because officers had kidnapped him, taken him to a police academy, and tortured him until he did.
他说他之所以认罪，是因为警察绑架了他，把他带到警察学院，并对他施以酷刑，直到他认罪为止。
He said they'd beaten him and burned him with cigarettes.
他说他们殴打了他，还用香烟烧了他。
Still, the judge convicted him and sentenced him to 50 years.
尽管如此，法官还是判定他有罪并判处他 50 年徒刑。
Garcia Uribe was freed in 2005, after it was proven that the authorities had tortured him into confessing.
加西亚·乌里韦 (Garcia Uribe) 于 2005 年获释，原因是当局对他进行了酷刑逼供。
"What makes me laugh," Laura told me, "is how the bus drivers are so scared.
“让我发笑的是，”劳拉告诉我，“公交车司机是如此害怕。
That's what really makes me laugh.
这才是真正让我发笑的原因。
I didn't see this myself, but Maria Alejandra says she's seen bus drivers who posted a sketch of Diana near their dashboards.
我自己没有看到这一点，但玛丽亚·亚历杭德拉说，她看到公交车司机在仪表板附近张贴了戴安娜王妃的素描。
And when a woman who looks like her tries to board the bus, they don't let her.
当一个长得像她的女人试图登上公共汽车时，他们不让她。
She says they close the doors quickly now.
她说他们现在很快就关门了。
And she's heard that some are carrying knives on them."
她听说有些人身上带着刀。”
"You know what it is?" Laura said.
“你知道那是什么吗？”劳拉说。
"In this country, people don't have balls.
“在这个国家，人们没有胆量。
That's why my dad has always said," Laura told me, "we don't have balls," he says.
这就是为什么我爸爸总是说，”劳拉告诉我，“我们没有胆量，”他说。
"Because if we had a little bit more balls, many things wouldn't be happening.
“因为如果我们有更多的胆量，很多事情就不会发生。
We don't express what we think.
我们不表达我们的想法。
We don't express how we feel.
我们不表达我们的感受。
And we don't act in accordance with what we think.
我们并不按照我们的想法行事。
And that's our problem.
这就是我们的问题。
That's what we are lacking."
这就是我们所缺乏的。”
So I asked her, but wait, weren't you on the verge of taking things into your own hands with your sister?
所以我问她，但是等等，你不是正准备和你姐姐一起把事情掌握在自己手中吗？
"Yeah, but I'm not the kind of person who would do it.
“是的，但我不是那种会这么做的人。
Sure, in the moment I reacted and I thought about it.
当然，在我反应过来并思考的那一刻。
But I would never do it.
但我永远不会这样做。
I would never try to kill anyone.
我永远不会试图杀死任何人。
It's not how I was brought up.
我不是这样长大的。
I'm not like that."
我不是那样的人。”
While I was in Juarez, I spent more time riding the buses on route 4 than doing anything else.
当我在华雷斯时，我在 4 号公路上乘坐公共汽车的时间比做其他任何事情都多。
These buses, the Juarez public transportation buses, are old school buses imported from the US.
这些巴士，即华雷斯公交巴士，是从美国进口的老式校车。
They are noisy old buses, reasonably clean, but in a state of decay that everyone accepts.
它们是吵闹的旧巴士，相当干净，但处于每个人都能接受的腐烂状态。
I rode in the back of the bus and in the front of the bus.
我乘坐公共汽车的后部和前部。
I rode it at the time of the killings, in the morning, and late at night, when the last bus was about to finish the route.
我在杀戮发生时、早上和深夜乘坐这辆车，当时最后一班巴士即将结束这条路线。
Sitting there, I wondered if the guy driving my bus was scared at all, nervous.
坐在那里，我想知道开我巴士的那个人是否感到害怕、紧张。
I wonder if in moments on his route, he was thinking about Diana the Hunter, and the words she said to the second bus driver on the morning of August the 29th.
我想知道他在路上的某个时刻是否想起了猎人戴安娜，以及她在 8 月 29 日早上对第二位公交车司机说的话。
[SPEAKING SPANISH].
[说西班牙语]。
"You all think you are so tough." Right before shooting the driver twice in the head and running away.
“你们都以为自己很坚强。”就在司机头部开了两枪然后逃跑之前。
She hasn't been spotted since.
从那以后她就再也没有被发现过。
And there's no proof that the email sent by Diana actually came from the woman who did the shootings.
没有证据表明戴安娜发送的电子邮件实际上来自枪击事件的女子。
Whoever chose Diana's name chose well.
无论谁选择戴安娜的名字，都选得很好。
Diana the Hunter is the goddess of women and childbirth, who, like many other Roman gods, acts out of basic human feelings, like rage and revenge.
猎人戴安娜是女性和生育女神，与许多其他罗马神一样，她的行为出于人类的基本情感，例如愤怒和复仇。
There is, on one of Mexico City's most famous streets, a statue of Diana the Hunter.
墨西哥城最著名的街道之一上矗立着猎人戴安娜的雕像。
And there's a replica of it outside a restaurant in Juarez.
华雷斯的一家餐馆外面有一个它的复制品。
She's muscular, strong, holding a bow with her arms stretched back, about to shoot.
她肌肉发达，身体强壮，手握弓，双臂向后伸展，正要射箭。
Maybe that image was in this one driver's mind on a bus I was riding when he opened the door and a woman came in and he said, "What?
也许这个画面就在我乘坐的一辆公共汽车上，当他打开车门，一个女人进来时，他说：“什么？
Are you Diana the Hunter?"
你是猎人戴安娜吗？”
"No, of course not," she replied.
“不，当然不是，”她回答道。
"What?
“什么？
Are you afraid of me now?" "Well yeah," he replied.
你现在害怕我了吗？” “是的，”他回答道。
"Shouldn't I be?"
“我不应该这样吗？”
Yuri Herrera.
尤里·埃雷拉.
His novel Signs Leading Up to the End of the World is available in Spanish right now.
他的小说《通往世界尽头的迹象》现已推出西班牙语版本。
It's going to come out in English next year.
该书将于明年推出英文版。
We commissioned a piece of artwork of Diana the Hunter on the bus to go with his story from this artist named Alice Leora Briggs.
我们委托一位名叫爱丽丝·莱奥拉·布里格斯（Alice Leora Briggs）的艺术家在巴士上创作了一幅猎人戴安娜的艺术品，以配合他的故事。
She's been doing these incredible drawings of scenes from Juarez.
她一直在画这些令人难以置信的华雷斯场景画。
You can see this piece of artwork at our website.
您可以在我们的网站上看到这件艺术品。
We also have a link to her other drawings at thisamericanlife.org.
我们还在 thisamericanlife.org 上提供了她其他画作的链接。
Our program was produced today by Brian Reed with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Sarah Koenig, Miki Meek, Johnathan Menjivar, Lisa Pollak, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Brian Reed 与 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Sarah Koenig、Miki Meek、Johnathan Menjivar、Lisa Pollak、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Our senior producer's Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人朱莉·斯奈德。
Production from Dana Chivvis.
由 Dana Chivvis 制作。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our production manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson's our administrative assistant.
埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的行政助理。
Adrianne Mathiowetz runs our website.
阿德琳娜·马修韦茨 (Adrianne Mathiowetz) 负责运营我们的网站。
Research help from Michelle Harris and Julie Beer.
米歇尔·哈里斯和朱莉·比尔的研究帮助。
Research and Spanish translation by Annie Correal.
安妮·科雷尔 (Annie Correal) 的研究和西班牙语翻译。
Music from Damien Gray from [INAUDIBLE], and Anthony Roman.
音乐来自 [听不清] 的达米安·格雷 (Damien Gray) 和安东尼·罗曼 (Anthony Roman)。
Original instrumental music in today's program by Roger Neill.
今天节目中的原创器乐由罗杰·尼尔创作。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
[致谢]《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
Thanks as always to our show's co-founder Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们节目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia。
You know, the staff had to stop inviting him to their kids' birthday parties.
你知道，工作人员不得不停止邀请他参加孩子们的生日聚会。
He'd get so excited around the slip and slide.
他会因为滑滑梯而感到非常兴奋。
My heart's racing right now.
我现在心跳加速。
My legs feel like running a mile.
我的双腿感觉就像跑了一英里。
I just feel like, let's go crazy.
我只是觉得，让我们疯狂吧。
Let's go slide somewhere.
我们去某个地方滑滑梯吧。
Let's go slide on my belly.
让我们在我的肚子上滑行吧。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life .
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC -- "SECRET IDENTITY" BY THE JEALOUS GIRLFRIENDS"]
[音乐——嫉妒的女朋友的“秘密身份”]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。