501: The View From In Here - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #501 | July 26, 2013 501: The View From In Here Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 501 集 | 2013 年 7 月 26 日 501：从这里看到的景色 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass A friend in South Africa sent me the link to this article that is making the rounds there.
序言 Ira Glass 南非的一位朋友给我发了这篇在那里流传的文章的链接。
It's an open letter, supposedly from the foreign media, to every man, woman, and child in their country.
这是一封据称是外国媒体写给本国每一个男人、女人和孩子的公开信。
It begins, "Dear South Africa, please get the F of the way.
它的开头是：“亲爱的南非，请注意 F。
Wait, that probably came out wrong.
等等，这可能是错误的。
As you may have noted, we're back!" Meaning of course, that the foreign press has returned to South Africa to cover what is happening now with Nelson Mandela.
As you may have noted, we're back!"当然，这意味着外国媒体已返回南非报道纳尔逊·曼德拉现在正在发生的事情。
I'll go back to the letter.
I'll go back to the letter.
"In the real world, far away from your sleepy backwater, news works on a 24-hour cycle, and you need to get out of the way.
“在现实世界中，远离沉睡的死水，新闻 24 小时循环播放，你需要让开。
It's nothing personal.
这不是什么个人的事情。
In fact, we couldn't do this successfully without you.
事实上，没有你，我们就不可能成功地做到这一点。
In many cases, our footage is made more compelling by your presence.
在许多情况下，我们的镜头因您的存在而变得更加引人注目。
Specifically, we are fond of small black children praying and slash or singing in unison.
具体来说，我们喜欢黑人小孩子齐声祈祷、砍杀或唱歌。
Equally telegenic are the Aryan ubermensch blond kids, also praying slash singing, who help underscore the theme that Mandela united people of all races under a rainbow umbrella.
同样上镜的还有雅利安超人金发小孩，他们也在祈祷斜线歌唱，这有助于强调曼德拉将所有种族的人民团结在彩虹伞下的主题。
Also very important, thematically speaking, are Mandela's successors.
从主题上讲，曼德拉的继任者也非常重要。
We very much like the idea that your ex-president was quote, 'one of a kind', and that despite his best efforts, the current batch of idiots proved that he was an exceptional presence.
我们非常喜欢这样的想法：你们的前总统被引用为“独一无二的人”，尽管他尽了最大的努力，但当前的这批白痴证明了他是一个非凡的存在。
Sui generis.
自成一体。
And we don't have to worry about someone else like him coming along in Africa ever again.
我们不必担心像他这样的人会再次出现在非洲。
We enjoy your leaders' bumbling ways, their daft nonsequiturs.
我们喜欢你们领导人的笨手笨脚的做法和愚蠢的不合逻辑的说法。
This story would lack a tragic arc without Jacob Zuma." That of course, is the current president of the country.
如果没有雅各布·祖马，这个故事就缺乏悲剧性的弧线。”那当然是该国现任总统。
"May he keep on keeping on."
"May he keep on keeping on."
The letter continues.
这封信还在继续。
"Then there's the Mandela family.
“然后是曼德拉家族。
Really, where would we derive our soap operatic undertones if it weren't for the infighting and blinged-up brashness of that clan?
真的，如果没有那个家族的内讧和浮夸的鲁莽，我们的肥皂剧基调从何而来呢？
We love subtly implying that a saint sired a generation of professional shoppers, no-goodniks.
我们喜欢巧妙地暗示，一位圣人孕育了一代职业购物者，而不是好人。
In our biz we call that irony.
在我们的行业中，我们称之为讽刺。
Makes for great copy.
非常适合复制。
In fact, we love everything about the country that doesn't live up to Mandela's legacy.
事实上，我们热爱这个国家的一切，但没有辜负曼德拉的遗产。
We will take every opportunity to mention how everything you do flies in the face of everything Mandela would have wanted for his people, how you're basically a nation of underachieving screw ups.
我们将利用一切机会提及你们所做的一切与曼德拉为他的人民所希望的一切背道而驰，你们基本上是一个成绩不佳、搞砸了的国家。
All of this is fantastic.
所有这一切都太棒了。
We thank you profusely for your individual and collective contributions to this essential storyline, and urge you to keep squandering your potential."
我们非常感谢你个人和集体对这个重要故事情节的贡献，并敦促你继续发挥你的潜力。”
Can I say what I love about this?
我能说说我喜欢这个的什么吗？
It was written by a journalist named Richard Poplak for the South African news service Daily Maverick, which you can find online.
它是由一位名叫理查德·波普拉克 (Richard Poplak) 的记者为南非新闻机构 Daily Maverick 撰写的，您可以在网上找到该机构。
What I love about this is how it doesn't just take us foreigners inside how a South African might see our news coverage and the tone of that coverage, it also reveals a world of utterly justified resentments that I guess maybe we could have suspected, but we didn't really know about.
我喜欢这个的原因是，它不仅让我们外国人了解南非人如何看待我们的新闻报道和报道的语气，它还揭示了一个充满完全合理的怨恨的世界，我想也许我们可能会怀疑，但我们并不真正了解。
It is an insider's view totally.
这完全是内部人士的看法。
Well, today on our radio show, we have stories from three radically different locations.
好吧，今天在我们的广播节目中，我们有来自三个完全不同地点的故事。
We dive into three very different worlds for the insider's view that only insiders have.
我们深入了解了三个截然不同的世界，以了解只有内部人士才能拥有的内部人士观点。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, The Weeds of Discontent.
Act One, The Weeds of Discontent.
What we have now is a recording of a very unusual conversation that came about in an unusual way.
我们现在拥有的是一段非常不寻常的对话的录音，该对话以一种不寻常的方式进行。
There's this filmmaker named Eugene Jarecki who made a documentary about prisons and the criminal justice system called The House I Live In .
有一位名叫尤金·贾雷茨基（Eugene Jarecki）的电影制片人制作了一部关于监狱和刑事司法系统的纪录片，名为《我住的房子》。
And he's been taking it around the country and showing it in prisons, kind of Johnny Cash style, for inmates and corrections staff.
他把它带到全国各地，并在监狱里向囚犯和惩教人员展示，有点约翰尼·卡什的风格。
One of our producers, Brian Reed, went to one of those screenings, which is where this conversation happened.
我们的一位制片人布莱恩·里德（Brian Reed）去了其中一场放映，这就是这次谈话发生的地方。
Here's Brian.
这是布莱恩。
The screening I saw was at Joseph Harp Correctional Center, a medium security prison in Lexington, Oklahoma.
我看到的放映地点是约瑟夫哈普惩教中心，这是俄克拉荷马州列克星敦的一所中等安全监狱。
About 35 inmates, most of them in for drug related crimes or with a history of drug use, sat waiting in the visiting room in chairs facing a projector screen.
大约 35 名囚犯坐在探视室面对投影仪屏幕的椅子上等候，其中大多数人因毒品相关犯罪或有吸毒史。
Once we get to where we're getting ready to start the movie, if you're here, you're staying.
Once we get to where we're getting ready to start the movie, if you're here, you're staying.
More than a dozen staff members came to watch the movie too, including the warden and some state officials from the Oklahoma Department of Corrections.
十几名工作人员也来看了这部电影，其中包括典狱长和俄克拉荷马州惩教署的一些州官员。
And before the screening started, what did these drug offenders think the movie was going to be about?
在放映开始之前，这些毒犯认为这部电影会讲什么？
Rehab.
康复。
Prisoner 2 Probably about some drugs and how to prevent yourself from doing some drugs.
《囚徒2》可能是关于一些毒品以及如何防止自己吸毒。
How drugs is bad for you.
毒品对你有多坏。
How it mess up your skin and your body.
它如何弄乱你的皮肤和身体。
Make you age quicker too.
Make you age quicker too.
But these guys were way off base.
但这些人的想法却大错特错。
The House I Live In is about how drugs are bad for them, but not in the way they were expecting.
《我住的房子》讲述了毒品如何对他们有害，但并不是以他们期望的方式。
Because it argues that the war on drugs has completely failed.
Because it argues that the war on drugs has completely failed.
That it's made law enforcement less effective and overwhelmed prisons.
它降低了执法效率并使监狱不堪重负。
That's it's a self-perpetuating system which preys on poor, uneducated people.
这是一个自我延续的系统，它以贫穷、未受过教育的人为食。
A system where politicians win elections by being tough on crime, a multi-billion dollar industry and entire towns thrive off the business of incarceration, and laws trap people with few opportunities in a cycle of committing crimes.
在这个体系中，政客们通过严厉打击犯罪来赢得选举，价值数十亿美元的产业和整个城镇都靠监禁业务而蓬勃发展，法律使人们陷入犯罪循环，几乎没有机会。
People don't realize, for example, that when you arrest a young black man and he goes to jail, when he gets out of the prison, he can't get a job in most places because of his record.
例如，人们没有意识到，当你逮捕一名年轻的黑人男子并让他入狱时，当他出狱时，由于他的记录，他在大多数地方都找不到工作。
This is Charles Ogletree, a professor at Harvard Law School.
我是查尔斯·奥格尔特里，哈佛法学院教授。
If he wants to go back to school to go to college, he's ineligible by law for certain grants.
If he wants to go back to school to go to college, he's ineligible by law for certain grants.
He can't get certain health care benefits.
他无法获得某些医疗保健福利。
His family that was the centerpiece of his life, if they're living in public housing, they can't take him in.
他的家人是他生活的核心，如果他们住在公共住房里，他们就不能接纳他。
He can't vote!
他不能投票！
The film has interviews with people throughout the criminal justice system.
The film has interviews with people throughout the criminal justice system.
Inmates and their families, but also judges, police officers, and prison staff.
囚犯及其家人，还有法官、警察和监狱工作人员。
Almost all of them say, in some way or another, that the system needs to be fixed.
几乎所有人都以某种方式表示，系统需要修复。
And what made it even more interesting for this audience in Oklahoma is that several people from the Oklahoma Department of Corrections are in the movie.
对于俄克拉荷马州的观众来说，更有趣的是，电影中有几位来自俄克拉荷马州惩教局的人。
And a couple of them were at the screening, watching it with the prisoners.
他们中的几个人也在放映现场，和囚犯们一起观看。
Like Mike Carpenter, who oversees security for Oklahoma's medium security prisons.
比如迈克·卡彭特（Mike Carpenter），他负责监督俄克拉荷马州中等安全监狱的安全。
I am very much a law and order kind of guy.
我是一个非常注重法律和秩序的人。
I would rather have 10 police cars than 1 soup kitchen if you give me the choice.
如果可以选择的话，我宁愿拥有 10 辆警车，也不愿拥有 1 个施粥处。
But sometimes I think that we need to be smarter about what those police officers are actually out there doing.
但有时我认为我们需要更聪明地了解那些警察实际上在做什么。
I think sometimes we have people doing a whole lot of time for not very much crime.
我认为有时人们花了很多时间却没有做太多犯罪。
It's almost like they're paying for our fear, instead of paying for their crime.
It's almost like they're paying for our fear, instead of paying for their crime.
So when the screening was over, some of the inmates were surprised that prison staff had even shown them this at all.
因此，当放映结束后，一些囚犯对监狱工作人员竟然向他们展示了这一点感到惊讶。
One guy said it was exhilarating to hear corrections officers say things like, "We're jailing too many people.
一名男子表示，听到惩教人员说“我们关押了太多人”之类的话，真是令人兴奋。
We're locking them up for too long."
我们把他们关得太久了。”
So we had this idea.
所以我们就有了这个想法。
We thought the film might prompt a conversation that prisoners and guards don't normally get to have about the prison system.
我们认为这部电影可能会引发囚犯和狱警通常不会就监狱系统进行的对话。
And Oklahoma corrections authorities agreed to give us a room where I could sit down prisoners and guards and they could talk to each other one on one.
俄克拉荷马州惩戒当局同意给我们一个房间，我可以让囚犯和警卫坐下来，他们可以一对一地交谈。
Who do you want to talk to?
你想和谁说话？
Who do you want to talk with?
你想和谁说话？
My own personal opinions.
我个人的看法。
Brian Reed This is Antwaun Wells.
布莱恩·里德 我是安特万·威尔斯。
He's 25, serving the third year of a nine year sentence for shooting a guy during an argument and also for stealing TVs from a Target and then stabbing a security guard in the arm on the way out of the store.
他今年 25 岁，因在争吵中开枪射击一名男子以及从 Target 偷窃电视，然后在走出商店时刺伤一名保安的手臂而被判九年徒刑，目前正在服刑第三年。
It's not his first time in prison.
这不是他第一次入狱。
He'd been in before.
他以前来过。
One of the staff members he picked-- Shelock-- wasn't around.
他挑选的一名工作人员——夏洛克——不在场。
But Dooley was.
但杜利是。
Dooley is Lt.
杜利是中尉。
Cecil Dooley.
塞西尔·杜利.
He's been a corrections officer for 14 years.
他当狱警已经 14 年了。
He's a big burly guy.
他是一个身材魁梧的大汉。
He wasn't there to see the movie.
他没有去看电影。
He was the guard on duty supervising the inmates as they watched the film.
他是值班的警卫，在囚犯观看电影时监督他们。
I recorded other conversations throughout the day.
I recorded other conversations throughout the day.
But this was the one that stood out.
但这是最引人注目的。
We're going to go in here.
我们要进去这里。
Pardon me, guys.
请原谅我，伙计们。
We got our first pair.
We got our first pair.
We'll see how this goes.
我们会看看事情进展如何。
Lt.
中尉
Dooley and Antwaun sat down facing each other.
杜利和安特万面对面坐下。
I sat off to the side to try and stay out of their way.
I sat off to the side to try and stay out of their way.
Now let me say here that this whole thing was a total experiment.
Now let me say here that this whole thing was a total experiment.
I don't think any of us knew what to expect.
我想我们谁都不知道会发生什么。
And just to get in front of this, Antwaun did not bring Dooley in here to talk about the movie.
在此之前，安特万并没有带杜利来这里谈论这部电影。
All right, so you wanted to bring him in here and ask him a question.
All right, so you wanted to bring him in here and ask him a question.
Yep.
是的。
Brian Reed Do you have your question?
布莱恩·里德 你有问题吗？
I want to know why y'all feel that it's so important for y'all to demand respect, but don't want to give it.
我想知道为什么你们都觉得要求尊重对你们来说如此重要，但又不想给予尊重。
When you say "y'all," you putting everybody in the same boat.
When you say "y'all," you putting everybody in the same boat.
Well, I can't put everyone in the same boat, because there is some guards that are respectful.
Well, I can't put everyone in the same boat, because there is some guards that are respectful.
But it's some-- being you in particular with me-- I feel that you're just disrespectful.
But it's some-- being you in particular with me-- I feel that you're just disrespectful.
Like the other day in the office, I asked you to come here.
就像那天在办公室一样，我请你到这里来。
If you was to ask me to come here and I told you to hold on, you'd have wrote me up because I didn't follow a direct order.
If you was to ask me to come here and I told you to hold on, you'd have wrote me up because I didn't follow a direct order.
I acknowledged you.
I acknowledged you.
I told you to hold on.
I told you to hold on.
I [INAUDIBLE].
我[听不清]。
Lt.
中尉
Cecil Dooley Unless you're bleeding, dying, or giving birth, the stuff that I had going on was much more important than what you needed at that time.
塞西尔·杜利：除非你流血、死亡或分娩，否则我所做的事情比你当时需要的重要得多。
I just feel-- Lt.
我只是觉得——中尉
Cecil Dooley I've never once called you outside of your name.
塞西尔·杜利 我从来没有用过你的名字来称呼过你。
No, that's-- Lt.
不，那是——中尉。
Cecil Dooley I've never slandered you in any way.
Cecil Dooley I've never slandered you in any way.
Yeah.
是的。
No. And I'm not gonna say that and I never will say that incident happened.
No. And I'm not gonna say that and I never will say that incident happened.
But what I'm saying is that's not the only--
但我要说的是，这不是唯一的——
But you come in here and you say I was disrespectful because you don't get what you want when you want it.
但你来到这里却说我不尊重你，因为当你想要的时候你却没有得到你想要的。
In my eyes, I feel like you and other guards view us as if we're nothing.
In my eyes, I feel like you and other guards view us as if we're nothing.
Y'all walk round with y'all head held up.
你们都昂着头走来走去。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
It's always, y'all win.
It's always, y'all win.
No matter what the situation is, y'all win.
无论情况如何，你们都是赢家。
You have a arrogant attitude.
你态度傲慢。
Your attitude is I'm Dooley.
你的态度就是我是杜利。
I'm big bad Dooley.
I'm big bad Dooley.
If I tell you to do something that's not illegal, that's not going to jeopardize your life, that's not offensive, you should have no problem doing it.
如果我告诉你做一些不违法的事情，不会危及你的生命，不会冒犯你，那么你做起来应该没有问题。
Whether you like it or not is a totally different story.
无论你喜欢与否，都是一个完全不同的故事。
That's where the disrespect come in.
这就是不尊重的根源。
Because you had--
因为你有——
That's not disrespectful.
这并不是不尊重。
Antwaun Wells OK, you had me pick up dandelions.
Antwaun Wells 好吧，你让我摘蒲公英。
Yes.
是的。
Antwaun Wells Just to prove a point to me.
Antwaun Wells 只是为了向我证明一点。
To prove a point that y'all have power.
为了证明你们都有力量。
OK.
好的。
So you're still upset over the dandelion deal?
那么你还在为蒲公英交易感到不安吗？
Yes, I really am.
是的，我确实是。
That really actually frustrated me.
这真的让我很沮丧。
If you wouldn't have bucked up against that officer that day--
如果那天你不反抗那位警官的话——
But see, that's what I'm saying.
但是看，这就是我所说的。
You never came and asked me exactly what happened.
你从来没有过来问我究竟发生了什么。
Don't need to.
不需要。
Antwaun Wells Exactly.
Antwaun Wells Exactly.
You took your officer's word and you left it at that.
你接受了你的军官的话，然后就这样了。
It's always three sides to each story.
每个故事总是三个方面。
My side, his side, and the truth.
我这边，他那边，还有真相。
You left two sides out and you went off of what your officer said.
你遗漏了两方面内容，并且偏离了警官所说的内容。
You never came to me as a man and asked me.
你从来没有作为一个男人来找过我并问过我。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
I did.
我做到了。
Antwaun Wells And then you forced me to do something just because you could.
Antwaun Wells 然后你强迫我做某事只是因为你可以。
And if I didn't, you threatened to ship me.
如果我不这样做，你就威胁要遣送我。
Antwaun is saying Lt.
Antwaun is saying Lt.
Dooley threatened to ship him to another prison.
杜利威胁要将他送往另一所监狱。
I don't remember threatening to ship you.
我不记得威胁要送你。
But I could.
但我可以。
Exactly.
确切地。
And you told me trying to override your staff, you could ship me.
你告诉我试图凌驾于你的员工之上，你可以派我去。
Mm hmm.
嗯嗯。
I could.
我可以。
Antwaun Wells And if I didn't pick up dandelions, you'll put me in a holding cell.
Antwaun Wells 如果我没有捡到蒲公英，你们就会把我关进拘留室。
And if I remember correctly, that was over you trying to get other people to stand up against that officer and not do what he was telling you to do.
如果我没记错的话，那是因为你试图让其他人站起来反对那位警官，而不是按照他告诉你的去做。
So OK, sure.
So OK, sure.
They weren't talking about the history of the drug war or the prison industrial complex or any of the other big ideas from the movie.
他们没有谈论毒品战争的历史或监狱工业综合体或电影中的任何其他重要想法。
But it was interesting to listen to them argue like this.
但听他们这样争论很有趣。
It was intimate.
这是很亲密的。
It was personal.
这是个人的。
They were bickering like family members.
他们像家人一样争吵。
Like a dad and his kid going at it.
就像一个父亲和他的孩子在做这件事。
And I felt like I was seeing something people on the outside don't usually have the opportunity to see.
我觉得我看到了一些外人通常没有机会看到的东西。
You realize, oh, right, these two are embedded in each other's lives in a way that only happens when one person has the power to punish the other and the other person has a whole lot of time to stew over it.
你意识到，哦，对了，这两个人以一种方式融入彼此的生活，只有当一个人有能力惩罚另一个人，而另一个人有大量的时间来消化它时，才会发生这种情况。
And the thing that was bugging Antwaun, the dandelions, seems small, but kind of gets to the heart of what he hates about being incarcerated.
困扰安特万的蒲公英似乎很小，但却触及了他对被监禁的厌恶的核心。
And he wanted to hash that out with Dooley.
他想与杜利讨论这个问题。
Obviously, there's disagreement about what happened that day, which was months ago, by the way.
显然，人们对那天发生的事情存在分歧，顺便说一下，那是几个月前的事了。
Antwaun says another officer had given some other inmates a few tasks to do, like pick up trash.
安特万说，另一名警官给其他囚犯布置了一些任务，比如捡垃圾。
Antwaun went up to the other inmates and told them they were allowed to do the tasks in a different order than the guard did.
安特万走到其他囚犯面前，告诉他们可以按照与看守不同的顺序执行任务。
Dooley says that's not how it happened.
杜利说事情并非如此。
That Antwaun Wells was telling other inmates to disobey a guard.
安特万·威尔斯告诉其他囚犯不要服从看守。
So Dooley gave him what they call extra duty.
因此杜利给了他所谓的额外职责。
In this case, to pick dandelions.
在这种情况下，要摘蒲公英。
No. I mean, it wasn't hard.
不，我的意思是，这并不难。
It was just--
这只是——
Did it take a lot of time?
花了很多时间吗？
Antwaun Wells No. It didn't take a lot of time.
Antwaun Wells 不。这并没有花费很多时间。
It's still the principle.
还是这个原则。
You made me--
You made me--
Did you break any bones?
Did you break any bones?
Antwaun Wells No. You could have said, go pick up some trash.
Antwaun Wells 不。你可以说，去捡一些垃圾。
You specifically made me pick up a flower that grows out the ground.
你特意让我摘了一朵从地里长出来的花。
Mm hmm.
嗯嗯。
Antwaun Wells Just because you could.
Antwaun Wells 只是因为你可以。
Right.
正确的。
Antwaun Wells Exactly.
Antwaun Wells Exactly.
It's always going to be officers that feel like just because I have the power and authority, I can do and say what I want to to these people.
警官们总是觉得，因为我有权力和权威，我可以对这些人做我想做的事、说我想做的事。
There wasn't just to put power and authority.
这不仅仅是为了赋予权力和权威。
I am where I am because I have morals, ethics, and beliefs that I stand by.
我之所以能取得现在的成绩，是因为我有自己所坚持的道德、伦理和信仰。
Still yet even once again-- Lt.
仍然甚至再次——中尉。
Cecil Dooley I think your problem, Mr. Wells, is you like to dwell on the fact that you don't get your way each and every time.
塞西尔·杜利（Cecil Dooley）：威尔斯先生，我认为你的问题在于，你喜欢老想着自己每次都无法如愿以偿的事实。
And that's part of the reason that you're in prison--
这就是你入狱的部分原因——
No, it's not.
不，不是。
Lt.
Lt.
Cecil Dooley --is because you like to buck the system.
塞西尔·杜利（Cecil Dooley）——是因为你喜欢对抗体制。
I'm in prison 'cause I shot somebody.
我因为开枪打死人而入狱。
I'll never deny that fact.
我永远不会否认这个事实。
OK.
好的。
Antwaun Wells I'm in prison because I put myself here.
Antwaun Wells 我进监狱是因为我把自己关在这里。
OK.
好的。
Antwaun Wells I made the choices in my life because I chose to.
Antwaun Wells 我在生活中做出了选择，因为我选择这样做。
And those are poor decisions.
这些都是糟糕的决定。
Antwaun Wells I don't blame nobody for nothing that happens.
Antwaun Wells 我不会因为发生任何事情而责怪任何人。
But when I feel that's just like there's some guards here that's just rude for no reason.
但当我觉得这里有一些守卫时，他们毫无理由地粗鲁。
I don't understand that.
我不明白。
You didn't care enough about me to even ask me my opinion.
你根本就不够关心我，连询问我的意见都没有。
You didn't care enough about nothing that I had going on, once again, because I'm an inmate.
再说一遍，你对我所发生的一切都不够关心，因为我是一名囚犯。
Y'all feel just because I came to the penitentiary, that I have no rights.
你们因为我来到监狱就觉得我没有权利。
You being an offender has nothing to do with it.
你是否是犯罪者与此无关。
'Cause you have no say over anything.
因为你对任何事情都没有发言权。
Policy and procedure.
政策和程序。
Lt.
Lt.
Cecil Dooley You have no say to tell my officer what he can and cannot do, to ask people to do.
塞西尔·杜利 你无权告诉我的官员他能做什么、不能做什么，也无权要求人们做什么。
Exactly.
确切地。
That's the point where you're missing.
这就是你所缺少的一点。
I told the inmates that.
I told the inmates that.
I didn't tell the officer nothing.
我什么也没告诉警官。
Right.
正确的。
Which makes you the person that was instigating.
这让你成为煽动者。
They went on like this for more than 20 minutes.
就这样，他们持续了二十多分钟。
I know you don't like me, just like I don't like you.
我知道你不喜欢我，就像我不喜欢你一样。
I've never disrespected you and my job has nothing to do with like or dislike.
我从来没有不尊重过你，我的工作与喜欢或不喜欢无关。
You disrespected me that day that you didn't ask me my side of the story and you made me pick up dandelions--
那天你不尊重我，没有询问我的故事，还让我摘蒲公英——
That's not disrespect.
That's not disrespect.
Antwaun Wells Because you could.
Antwaun Wells 因为你可以。
That's not disrespect.
这并不是不尊重。
Antwaun Wells You power abused because you could.
Antwaun Wells 你滥用权力是因为你可以。
You just admitted it.
You just admitted it.
OK.
好的。
Brian Reed Finally I interrupted and asked them what they thought about the movie we just watched.
布莱恩·里德 最后我打断了他们，问他们对我们刚刚看的电影有何看法。
Dooley had actually seen it before.
杜利以前确实见过它。
He had it recorded on his DVR.
他把这一切记录在他的 DVR 上。
And he liked it.
他喜欢它。
He told me that for several years now, he's felt that the country needs to rethink the way it does corrections.
他告诉我，几年来，他一直觉得这个国家需要重新考虑纠正的方式。
He said he often tells inmates that when they get down to the last three years or so of their sentence, he thinks they should be released early.
他说，他经常告诉囚犯，当他们服刑的最后三年左右时，他认为他们应该提前释放。
When you see that movie and when you think about your day to day, are you dissatisfied?
当你看那部电影并思考你的日常生活时，你是否不满意？
Are you frustrated with the system, where it's gotten?
您对这个系统感到失望吗？它的结果在哪里？
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Brian Reed What frustrates you most?
布莱恩·里德 最让你沮丧的是什么？
The fact that we have now taken people and made them a monetary commodity.
事实上，我们现在已经把人变成了货币商品。
Right now the big thing is the push to privatization.
目前最重要的是推动私有化。
To make money off of prisons, to make money off of people's lives, to make money to incarcerate people.
从监狱中赚钱，从人们的生命中赚钱，从监禁人们中赚钱。
That to me, seems backwards.
对我来说，这似乎是倒退。
And this is not to push your button or anything like that.
这并不是要按下按钮或类似的东西。
I did more in 10 seconds of his life by making him pick up dandelions.
我在他生命的 10 秒内做了更多的事，让他捡起蒲公英。
He will remember the fact that I came up there and I told him to pick dandelions for arguing with an officer.
他会记得我到那里并告诉他摘蒲公英来与军官争论。
He will remember that forever.
他会永远记住这一点。
And if that one issue makes him hate me to the point where he doesn't ever want to put himself in that position again, then I have done my job.
如果这个问题让他讨厌我，以至于他再也不想让自己陷入那个境地，那么我就完成了我的工作。
I've done my job to correct an action forever.
我已经完成了我的工作，永远纠正一个行为。
What do you think of that, Antwaun?
安特万，你对此有何看法？
You get that?
你明白了吗？
I mean, I understand it.
我的意思是，我明白。
But I still don't feel that it's fair.
但我还是觉得不公平。
Penitentiary to me is just slavery in another form.
监狱对我来说只是另一种形式的奴隶制。
In my eyes, these is my owners and I have to do what they say, otherwise I have consequences.
在我眼里，这些是我的主人，我必须按照他们所说的去做，否则我就要承担后果。
Just like the slave master.
就像奴隶主一样。
You either do what he say or you get punished.
你要么按照他说的去做，要么就会受到惩罚。
Then the conversation got more personal.
然后谈话变得更加私人化。
Lt.
中尉
Dooley told Antwaun that the last time he got out of prison he had a chance to stay out, to make a different life for himself.
杜利告诉安特万，上次出狱时，他有机会留在外面，为自己创造不同的生活。
But instead he re-offended.
但他却再次犯罪。
Antwaun said he didn't have many options.
安特万说他没有太多选择。
And it was around this point that Antwaun and Dooley actually started to hear each other out a bit.
就在此时，安特万和杜利实际上开始倾听对方的心声。
What was I supposed to do?
我应该做什么？
I come from the hood.
我来自引擎盖。
I come from nothing.
我从无到有。
You tell me, what was I supposed to do?
你告诉我，我该怎么办？
Now you're talking outside my purview, because I don't know where you're from.
现在你的言论超出了我的权限，因为我不知道你来自哪里。
Exactly.
确切地。
Exactly.
确切地。
You don't know where I'm from.
你不知道我来自哪里。
And I don't feel that you would care.
我觉得你不会关心。
Me as a person, if I didn't have all the tattoos or whatever, if I had the money to get them removed, you could put me in a white collar neighborhood and I could make it because I have a education.
作为一个人，如果我没有所有的纹身或其他什么，如果我有钱把它们去除，你可以把我放在白领社区，我可以做到这一点，因为我受过教育。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
I have two years of college.
我还有两年大学生活。
I have no other option but to accept my choices I made.
我别无选择，只能接受我的选择。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
I do admit my failures.
我承认我的失败。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
But I will say that there were obstacles that at that time, I didn't think right of overcoming, so I chose the wrong way to overcome them.
但我要说的是，当时有一些障碍，我认为克服这些障碍是不正确的，所以我选择了错误的方法来克服它们。
You know what?
你知道吗？
I grew up very poor.
我从小就很穷。
I didn't know I was poor.
我不知道我很穷。
My mom always had two different jobs growing up.
我妈妈在成长过程中一直从事两份不同的工作。
I was taking care of my little brother at the age of eight by myself.
我一个人照顾八岁的弟弟。
I'm on this side, you're on that side.
我在这边，你在那边。
That's all decisions.
这就是所有的决定。
And you know the difference between right and wrong.
你知道对与错的区别。
Yeah.
是的。
Lt.
中尉
Cecil Dooley But you make the conscious decision to continue doing the same things and expect different results.
Cecil Dooley 但你有意识地决定继续做同样的事情并期待不同的结果。
Sometimes you get pinned in a corner and you're forced to do what you know.
有时你会被困在角落里，被迫做你知道的事情。
Like when I got out of the penitentiary this time, for three days I wore the same clothes until I went out and had to steal me some clothes.
就像我这次出狱时一样，连续三天都穿着同样的衣服，直到出去才得给我偷一些衣服。
My sister and my brother and my mama didn't give me no handout.
我的姐姐、哥哥和妈妈没有给我任何施舍。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
Jobs, they won't-- you're a felon.
乔布斯，他们不会——你是个重罪犯。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
I applied for 35 jobs with my little brother.
我和弟弟申请了 35 份工作。
And just because both of us is felons, we got nowhere.
仅仅因为我们都是重罪犯，我们就一事无成。
So what am I gonna do?
那我该怎么办？
I'm going to go commit a crime, make me some money, and then go get me a dope sack.
我要去犯罪，赚点钱，然后去给我拿一袋毒品。
See, if I were to go, the first thing I would do would try to go pick up a lawn mower or something and go mow some lawns.
你看，如果我要去的话，我要做的第一件事就是尝试拿起割草机之类的东西去割一些草坪。
That's the difference in thought.
这就是思想上的差异。
Yeah.
是的。
That was an option.
这是一个选择。
But still, yeah, once again, where am I gonna get the lawn mower from?
但是，是的，我又要从哪里得到割草机呢？
I got friends.
我有朋友。
Antwaun Wells I feel like society made a lot of rules to keep people safe.
Antwaun Wells 我觉得社会制定了很多规则来保证人们的安全。
But at the same time, the people that they was trying to keep safe from, they gave us no other option but to go back out and re-offend because they put so many limitations on what we could do that where you have no other option but to go back to what you used to do.
但与此同时，他们试图保护的人，他们给我们别无选择，只能回去重新犯罪，因为他们对我们能做的事情设置了很多限制，你别无选择，只能回到过去做的事情。
I've heard that same story for 14 years.
同样的故事我已经听了 14 年了。
I don't know how to fix it.
我不知道如何解决它。
If I did, I'd be a millionaire.
如果我这样做，我就会成为百万富翁。
If I did, there wouldn't be people in prison because I could tell them how to fix it.
如果我这样做了，就不会有人入狱了，因为我可以告诉他们如何解决这个问题。
That conversation took place about a month and a half ago.
那次谈话大约发生在一个半月前。
And since then, I've wondered if it changed anything for Antwaun and Lt.
从那时起，我想知道这是否改变了安特万和中尉。
Dooley, if it improved their relationship at all.
杜利，如果这能改善他们的关系的话。
So I called them up the other day to ask them.
所以那天我打电话给他们询问。
I talked to Dooley first and he said he'd only run into Antwaun a couple times since they'd talked.
我先和杜利谈过，他说自从他们谈过之后，他只遇到过安特万几次。
So he hadn't really noticed a difference.
所以他并没有真正注意到有什么不同。
But he did come down here.
但他确实来到了这里。
And when I called him down for this interview, he didn't have that same negative attitude he normally did.
当我叫他下来接受采访时，他并没有像平常那样表现出消极态度。
Dooley said he hadn't thought much about the conversation since it happened.
杜利说，自从那次谈话发生以来，他并没有想太多。
And when I asked him if it changed him at all, if he felt more sympathetic towards Antwaun or if he thought differently now about the way he disciplines inmates, he said no. Not at all.
当我问他这是否改变了他，他是否对安特万更加同情，或者他现在对管教囚犯的方式是否有了不同的看法时，他说没有。一点也不。
Then he went to get Antwaun.
然后他去找安特万。
Now hold on just a second.
现在请稍等一下。
[PHONE RINGING]
[电话铃声]
If you'll have a seat right there, Mr. Wells.
威尔斯先生，请您坐在那里。
This is the gentleman that did our interview while we were in the room when they came and showed the video.
这是当我们在房间里时接受我们采访的那位先生，当时他们过来并播放了视频。
Here he is.
他在这里。
Yes.
是的。
Brian Reed Hi, it's Brian Reed.
布莱恩·里德 嗨，我是布莱恩·里德。
How are you?
你好吗？
I'm doing all right.
我一切都好。
Brian Reed I asked Antwaun the same question.
布莱恩·里德（Brian Reed）我也问过安特万同样的问题。
Had the conversation changed anything between him and Dooley?
这次谈话是否改变了他和杜利之间的关系？
And he said yeah, it had.
他说是的，确实如此。
Well, to me before it was like if I asked for something, he was dismissive or he'd keep going as if he didn't see me or something like that.
嗯，以前对我来说，就像如果我要求什么东西，他会不屑一顾，或者他会继续前进，就好像他没有看到我或类似的事情一样。
But now if I ask him a question or whatever, he takes the time to talk to me about the issue right then and there.
但现在，如果我问他问题或其他什么，他就会立即花时间与我谈论这个问题。
He doesn't blow me off.
他不会让我失望。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
I feel now that he looks at me as a human being more than he did then.
我现在觉得他比以前更把我当作一个人来看待了。
Wow.
哇。
It's interesting, 'cause I just got off the phone with Lt.
这很有趣，因为我刚刚和中尉通完电话。
Dooley, and he says the conversation hasn't changed him at all.
杜利说，这次谈话根本没有改变他。
To me it has.
对我来说是这样。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
I don't know if it was the conversation or it was just that I didn't know him at the time.
我不知道是因为谈话的原因，还是因为我当时不认识他。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
Or I didn't want to know him.
或者说我根本就不想认识他。
I don't necessarily know.
我不一定知道。
But I mean, I feel like the conversation that we had, I feel like it helped me even if it didn't help him.
但我的意思是，我觉得我们的谈话对我有帮助，即使对他没有帮助。
You know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
It maybe have helped me see him in, I don't know, I guess the way that he should be seen in.
这也许帮助我看到了他，我不知道，我猜他应该被看到的方式。
I'm not for sure.
我不确定。
I just got to know that it's not him being disrespectful, it's just him doing his job.
我才知道，这并不是他不尊重，而是他在做他的工作。
My perception was maybe the one that was off.
我的看法可能是错误的。
Wait, Antwaun.
等等，安特万。
Is Lt.
是中尉吗？
Dooley sitting right there?
杜利坐在那儿？
Yeah.
是的。
Brian Reed 'Cause it's almost like you're totally proving him right.
布莱恩·里德 因为这几乎就像你完全证明了他是对的。
And I was wondering if he was watching over you right now to make sure you said these things.
我想知道他现在是否正在监视你以确保你说这些话。
Nuh uh.
呃呃。
No. Brian Reed It's surprising that this is where things ended up.
不。布赖恩·里德（Brian Reed） 令人惊讶的是事情就这样结束了。
When Antwaun went into the conversation, his goal was to bring Dooley around to seeing his side of things.
当安特万开始谈话时，他的目标是让杜利看到他的观点。
Instead, the opposite happened.
相反，相反的情况发生了。
Brian Reed.
布赖恩·里德.
You can see Eugene Jarecki's prison movie The House I Live In .
您可以观看尤金·贾雷茨基（Eugene Jarecki）的监狱电影《我住的房子》。
And believe me, it will get to you.
相信我，它会影响到你。
It's available on every possible internet platform-- iTunes, Netflix, Amazon Instant, YouTube and a half a dozen others.
它可以在所有可能的互联网平台上使用——iTunes、Netflix、Amazon Instant、YouTube 以及其他六个平台。
Or you can see it by getting yourself arrested and thrown in prison, where screenings are still happening around the country.
或者你可以通过被捕并投入监狱来看到这一点，全国各地仍在进行放映。
It's in New Mexico prisons next month.
下个月将在新墨西哥州监狱进行。
The film's website is thehouseilivein.org.
这部电影的网站是 thehouselivein.org。
Coming up, an insider's view of what it's like to follow love into a different and much more dangerous country than the one you live in.
接下来，一位业内人士将讲述追随爱情进入一个与你所居住的国家不同且危险得多的国家是什么感觉。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's show, "The View From In Here-- Insiders' Stories from Three Very Different Places."
今天的节目“这里的观点——来自三个截然不同的地方的内部人士的故事”。
We have arrived at Act Two of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, The Real Housewife of Ciudad Juarez.
第二幕，华雷斯城的真正家庭主妇。
Emily Bonderer Cruz is an American.
艾米丽·邦德勒·克鲁兹是美国人。
Her husband Raymundo-- she calls him Gordo-- is Mexican.
她的丈夫雷蒙多（她称他为戈多）是墨西哥人。
When they met, he was here in the United States illegally.
当他们见面时，他已经非法滞留在美国。
In fact, he had already been deported once and snuck back in.
事实上，他已经被驱逐出境一次，然后又偷偷回来了。
And the way that the law works, that means that the only way that he could live with her now right here in the United States with them married, is that he first needs to live outside the United States for 10 years.
法律的运作方式意味着，他现在可以在美国与她结婚并与她一起生活的唯一方式是，他首先需要在美国境外生活 10 年。
So after trying to live here in the States illegally for a little while, they decided they should move to Mexico.
因此，在尝试在美国非法居住一段时间后，他们决定搬到墨西哥。
So they moved to Mexico.
所以他们搬到了墨西哥。
They chose Ciudad Juarez because it's a border town.
他们选择华雷斯城是因为它是一个边境城镇。
Emily could earn a US wage just by commuting into El Paso every day right across the border.
艾米丽每天只需跨越边境前往埃尔帕索，就可以赚取美国的工资。
And that's what she does.
这就是她所做的。
While Ray works at a maquila, one of the factories-- there are tons of them-- on the Mexican side of the border.
当雷在一家加工厂工作时，其中一家工厂（数量众多）位于边境的墨西哥一侧。
They moved to Juarez in 2010 at the height of the narco drug wars, when Juarez had the highest murder rate in the world, in the entire world.
2010 年，他们搬到了华雷斯，当时正值毒品战争最激烈的时候，华雷斯的谋杀率是全世界最高的。
Emily started writing a blog about their life called The Real Housewife of Ciudad Juarez.
艾米丽开始写一个关于他们生活的博客，名为《华雷斯城的真实家庭主妇》。
And after reading it, radio producer Ann Heppermann gave her a recording kit and asked her just to keep a radio diary, documenting her everyday life to give the rest of us a sense of what it is like to be an American housewife right there.
读完这本书后，广播制作人安·赫珀曼给了她一套录音工具，并要求她保留一本广播日记，记录她的日常生活，让我们其他人了解美国家庭主妇的感受。
OK, so we're here at the house.
好的，我们就在家里了。
I'm in the living room.
我在客厅。
We're sitting on the couch.
我们坐在沙发上。
And basically I'm about to interview my husband.
基本上我要采访我的丈夫。
So I'm just going to explain to him in Spanish.
所以我要用西班牙语向他解释。
Basically, I'm going to ask him a question in Spanish, I'm going to let him go ahead and answer, and then I'm going do my best to translate.
基本上，我会用西班牙语问他一个问题，我会让他继续回答，然后我会尽力翻译。
Are you ready?
你准备好了吗？
Mm mm.
嗯嗯。
Emily Bonderer Cruz [LAUGHS].
艾米莉·邦德尔·克鲁兹[笑]。
OK.
好的。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] So I asked him what his version of meeting me was.
[说西班牙语] 所以我问他与我见面的版本是什么。
[LAUGHING] Emily Bonderer Cruz That laughter is because it's super hard to tell our version of meeting me without either of us looking like complete whores.
[笑] Emily Bonderer Cruz 那笑声是因为如果我们中的任何一个看起来都不像十足的妓女，很难讲述我们与我见面的版本。
So we generally have a filtered version of how we met each other.
所以我们通常对我们的认识有一个过滤版本。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz I met you in Mesa, Arizona.
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 我在亚利桑那州梅萨遇见了你。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz He's explaining that he didn't pay any attention to me because his friend was wanting to get at me, or whatever you say.
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 他解释说他没有注意到我，因为他的朋友想攻击我，或者无论你说什么。
So he was just kind of ignoring me and keeping his distance.
所以他只是无视我并保持距离。
And it's funny, because that was what I liked about-- well, I didn't like it.
这很有趣，因为那是我喜欢的——嗯，我不喜欢它。
But I was like, doesn't he see all this?
但我想，他难道没有看到这一切吗？
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz He says he doesn't remember if it was that same day or another day that he whistled at me from down below.
[西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 他说他不记得他是在同一天还是另一天从下面向我吹口哨。
And that I gave him the finger wag, like come here.
我对他摇了摇手指，就像来这里一样。
[LAUGHING] Emily Bonderer Cruz [WHISPERING] It was the same day.
[笑] Emily Bonderer Cruz [耳语] 那是同一天。
Shh.
嘘。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
OK, next question.
好的，下一个问题。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] So I asked him, how did you feel when you came back to Mexico?
[说西班牙语]所以我问他，当你回到墨西哥时感觉如何？
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz I felt really weird.
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 我感觉很奇怪。
You know, we drove from Arizona with our car completely packed to the brim, bikes on bike rack, crap on the top of the car.
你知道，我们从亚利桑那州开车过来，车里装满了东西，自行车放在自行车架上，车顶上堆满了垃圾。
And I drove.
我开车了。
It's a six-hour trip from Phoenix to El Paso.
从菲尼克斯到埃尔帕索有六个小时的路程。
And the whole time I was driving, I mean my hands were just clenched to the steering wheel so hard.
在我开车的整个过程中，我的双手都紧紧地握着方向盘。
I was sweating.
我满头大汗。
It was August.
那是八月。
August 7 of 2010.
2010 年 8 月 7 日。
And for me, it was really emotional when I saw Juarez for the first time.
对我来说，当我第一次看到华雷斯时，我真的很激动。
It's a pretty bad area right there.
那里是一个非常糟糕的地区。
A lot of the roads aren't paved.
很多路都没有铺好。
Quiet tears rolling down my face.
泪水静静地从我的脸上滚落。
And I'm just praying to God that my husband doesn't notice that I'm crying, because I didn't want him to feel bad.
我只是向上帝祈祷，希望我的丈夫没有注意到我在哭，因为我不想让他感到难过。
I mean, the whole time it was my idea to move to Mexico.
我的意思是，搬到墨西哥一直是我的想法。
I couldn't back down now.
我现在不能退缩了。
And I went into this like, I could live in a shack.
我进入这个就像，我可以住在一个小屋里。
I love this man.
我爱这个男人。
I don't care where we live.
我不在乎我们住在哪里。
I don't need air conditioning, cable.
我不需要空调，电缆。
I don't need internet.
我不需要互联网。
I can just do this.
我只能做到这一点。
[LAUGHING] Emily Bonderer Cruz [LAUGHING] OK, we gotta power through these last questions because his novela is starting in eight minutes.
[笑] Emily Bonderer Cruz [笑] 好吧，我们必须解决最后几个问题，因为他的中篇小说将在八分钟后开始。
[BELCHES] Emily Bonderer Cruz [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[打嗝] Emily Bonderer Cruz [说西班牙语]
[LAUGHING] OK.
[笑]好的。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] I'm going to ask him how he feels about working in the maquilas now.
[说西班牙语]我要问他现在在加工厂工作感觉如何。
[SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语]
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz Well, I feel good.
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 嗯，我感觉很好。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz But the bad part is the pay.
[西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 但不好的是薪水。
That's really the only bad part.
这确实是唯一不好的部分。
[SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语]
And then I ask him, how do you feel since your wife earns more than you do and pays the majority of the bills?
然后我问他，既然你妻子的收入比你多，并且支付了大部分账单，你感觉如何？
How does that make you feel?
这让你感觉如何？
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz Well, I feel-- how could I say?
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 嗯，我觉得——我该怎么说呢？
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz I feel a little bit bad.
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 我感觉有点不好。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] [LAUGHS] Emily Bonderer Cruz I can really only pay the water.
[说西班牙语] [笑] Emily Bonderer Cruz 我真的只能付水费。
No. [SPEAKING SPANISH]
不。[说西班牙语]
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz But--
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 但是——
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz I put a little part in there.
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 我在那里放了一小部分。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz My part's really small but--
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 我的部分真的很小，但是——
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz I'm proud of my part.
[西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 我为自己的角色感到自豪。
I'm going to ask him how this move or self-deportation has affected our marriage.
我要问他这次搬家或自我驱逐对我们的婚姻有何影响。
And does he think it's been hard on our marriage?
他认为这对我们的婚姻有困难吗？
[SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语]
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz To begin, it felt a little bit bad.
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 首先，感觉有点糟糕。
But now it feels better and it's not as big of a deal.
不过现在感觉好多了，也没什么大不了的了。
And you know, we're here.
你知道，我们在这里。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz We're living the best life in the world.
[西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 我们过着世界上最好的生活。
We're happy.
我们很高兴。
He's fist pumping.
他正在挥动拳头。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
Pumping?
抽水？
Emily Bonderer Cruz Fist pumping.
艾米丽·邦德尔·克鲁兹 握拳。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] The Jersey Shore ?
[说西班牙语] 泽西海岸？
[SPEAKING SPANISH]?
[说西班牙语]？
[HUMMING] No?
[哼哼]没有？
[SPEAKING SPANISH]?
[说西班牙语]？
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz [LAUGHS] He said that was the easiest question I asked him.
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz [笑] 他说这是我问他的最简单的问题。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz You rock.
[西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz 你太棒了。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] [LAUGHS].
[说西班牙语][笑]。
[SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语]
Oh, I really love my husband.
哦，我真的很爱我的丈夫。
He's just like the man I always wanted.
他就像我一直想要的男人一样。
You know like you hear those songs?
你知道你听到这些歌曲吗？
Like Third Eye Blind is my favorite band.
就像 Third Eye Blind 是我最喜欢的乐队一样。
So you always listen to those songs and you hear about these guys that just love a woman so much.
所以你总是听那些歌曲，你会听到这些男人非常爱一个女人。
I want to fall asleep inside of you.
我想在你心里睡着。
I mean, you've heard that lyric, right?
我的意思是，你听过那句歌词，对吧？
And it's like, you go after that person that's like that and that's romantic right off the bat like that and it never ends up being a Third Eye Blind song.
就像，你去追那个像那样的人，那是浪漫的，但它永远不会成为一首第三眼盲人的歌曲。
But I've came to find years down the road that's not really what I wanted.
但多年后我发现这并不是我真正想要的。
I wanted someone to say, oh, you have someone coming over?
我想让有人说，哦，有人过来吗？
Do you want me to take something out of the freezer for dinner?
你要我从冰箱里拿点东西当晚餐吗？
Or somebody that mops the floor because I have to work late or whatever.
或者有人因为我必须工作到很晚或其他原因而拖地。
That's really what made me go to Mexico is taking out the trash.
这才是我去墨西哥的真正原因是倒垃圾。
OK, testies, testies.
好吧，睾丸，睾丸。
Un, dos, tres.
Un、dos、tres。
OK, so I'm in line and it's only 6:44, so you can see how fast I got in line from downtown El Paso.
好的，我正在排队，现在才 6 点 44 分，所以您可以看到我从埃尔帕索市中心排队的速度有多快。
I feel like I have a song for this.
我觉得我有一首歌就是为了这个。
'Cause not only is it Friday, but I got paid today.
因为不仅是星期五，而且我今天也拿到了工资。
OK, this is my perfect song for payday Friday.
好的，这是我周五发薪日的完美歌曲。
[MUSIC - "GET DRUNK AND BE SOMEBODY" BY TOBY KEITH]
[音乐 - 托比·基思 (TOBY KEITH) 的《喝醉，成为大人物》]
Friday, baby!
星期五，宝贝！
Literally one speed bump out of this joint, I'm in Mexico.
从字面上看，我在墨西哥。
This is my hood.
这是我的兜帽。
I love this neighborhood.
我喜欢这个社区。
It's like the perfect mixture of America and Mexico to me.
对我来说，这就像美国和墨西哥的完美结合。
Because I'm not so hardcore pioneer that I could really do real Mexico.
因为我不是那么铁杆先锋，我真的可以做真正的墨西哥。
I mean, I guess maybe I could.
我的意思是，我想也许我可以。
I just don't have the balls or I don't know, the ovaries, to live on a ranch or not have running water or whatever.
我只是没有胆量，或者我不知道，卵巢，无法生活在牧场上，或者没有自来水或其他什么。
And there's other things that I just like to have.
还有其他一些我喜欢拥有的东西。
Like an oven, for instance.
例如，像烤箱。
Those are privileges here.
这些都是这里的特权。
And I definitely have those things at my house and I really enjoy that.
我家里肯定有这些东西，我真的很喜欢。
And that's something I love about my neighborhood.
这就是我喜欢我的社区的一点。
I'm in line right now at Beep Beep to buy cigarettes.
我现在正在 Beep Beep 排队买香烟。
I'm not quite sure how they're going to react to the microphone thing, but I'm just not going to mention it and see what happens.
我不太确定他们对麦克风的事情会有什么反应，但我不会提及它，看看会发生什么。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz Si, por favor.
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz Si，谢谢。
Well, he said absolutely nothing about the giant microphone in front of my face.
好吧，他对我面前的巨型麦克风只字未提。
Which sometimes, see?
有时候，看到了吗？
We're just paranoid in Juarez for no reason whatsoever.
我们只是无缘无故地对华雷斯感到偏执。
13 days after we had gotten to Juarez, we went to turn into the street to get to my house and we couldn't.
到达华雷斯 13 天后，我们拐进街道去我家，但没能成功。
There were federal police everywhere.
到处都有联邦警察。
And then I saw him.
然后我看到了他。
His body, it was lying there on the ground.
他的身体，就躺在地上。
I remember his knees were bent very awkwardly.
我记得他的膝盖弯曲得很别扭。
It was really not natural.
这确实不自然。
There was blood everywhere.
到处都是血。
And I started to cry.
我开始哭泣。
That was 13 days after we moved to Juarez.
那是我们搬到华雷斯后的 13 天。
That was the first and last time I cried over a dead body.
那是我第一次也是最后一次为尸体哭泣。
But I remember that day thinking, what else am I going to see in 10 years here?
但我记得那天我在想，十年后我还能在这里看到什么？
[SIGH].
[叹]。
There's a new man selling newspapers right there.
那里有一个新人卖报纸。
He puts his stool right over that blood stain and goes on with his life, sells the paper.
他把凳子放在血迹上，继续他的生活，卖掉报纸。
Juarez has to keep chugging along, regardless of what happens.
无论发生什么，华雷斯都必须继续前进。
So I'm home now.
所以我现在到家了。
Get my chicken that I smuggled.
把我走私的鸡拿回来。
And then it's time to open like 700 gates.
然后是时候打开大约 700 个门了。
That's a lie.
那是一个谎言。
There's just one gate.
只有一扇门。
I have to have a key card to get in the neighborhood and then I have to have three keys to get into the house.
我必须有一张钥匙卡才能进入邻居，然后我必须有三把钥匙才能进入房子。
And you gotta lock everything behind you, of course.
当然，你必须把一切都锁在身后。
And then probably we already locked the car, but--
然后我们可能已经锁了车，但是——
[DOGS BARKING] My puppies are barking.
[狗吠]我的小狗在吠叫。
They miss me.
他们想念我。
Hi!
你好！
Oh, my babies.
哦，我的宝贝们。
Baby!
婴儿！
Ray!
射线！
Mi amor!
我的爱！
OK, so tonight-- and this is a typical Saturday night-- Gordo and his friend Milon are outside right now, listening to music and getting their drink on.
好吧，今晚——这是一个典型的周六晚上——戈多和他的朋友米隆现在在外面，听着音乐，喝着饮料。
I'm in here making some chicken, because I needed to make it before it went bad.
我在这里做一些鸡肉，因为我需要在它变质之前做好它。
In Juarez, this is what we do.
在华雷斯，这就是我们所做的。
So they're going to sit outside and drink and listen to music.
所以他们会坐在外面喝酒、听音乐。
It's like in the country, but with bullets!
就像在乡下一样，但是有子弹！
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
People always joke about it, but I rarely hear bullets.
人们总是拿它开玩笑，但我很少听到子弹。
Gunshots I guess is what they're called.
我想这就是所谓的枪声。
You don't just hear bullets.
你不只是听到子弹声。
[MEN LAUGHING] For me, it makes me happy that he can go and live a normal life that he couldn't live in the US.
[男人笑]对我来说，我很高兴他可以去美国过上他无法过的正常生活。
Or that I guess he could have, but it would've been so risky.
或者我猜他可以这么做，但风险太大了。
You know, driving and paying for things that he couldn't do in the US.
你知道，开车并支付他在美国做不到的事情。
And even though he makes way less money here, he can be more of a man without having that income in other ways.
尽管他在这里赚的钱少得多，但他可以在没有其他方式收入的情况下更像一个男人。
[BLOWING INTO MICROPHONE] Hello?
[对着麦克风吹气] 喂？
Well, I was going to go sleep.
嗯，本来我要去睡觉了。
But crying a little bit.
但有点想哭。
You know, just when I think that I have--
你知道，就在我认为我已经——
[LIGHTS CIGARETTE] At times I feel so caught up in immigration.
[点烟]有时我觉得自己陷入了移民的困境。
And the idea that we've been slighted in some way.
以及我们在某种程度上受到忽视的想法。
And lately, I don't really feel that way.
最近，我真的没有这种感觉了。
My husband did break the law and this is the result of laws that were put in place with good intentions.
我丈夫确实触犯了法律，这是善意制定法律的结果。
And now what I want to concentrate on is my life here.
现在我想专注的是我在这里的生活。
This is my life.
这就是我的生活。
I can't change the law.
我无法改变法律。
I mean, I marched in protest rallies and I was involved in immigration reform and I was a member of different groups and talked to congressmen.
我的意思是，我参加了抗议集会，参与了移民改革，我是不同团体的成员，并与国会议员交谈。
And I did all those things for all these years while we were in the US.
当我们在美国的这些年里，我做了所有这些事情。
And when we got here, it was just like a weight had been lifted off my shoulder.
当我们到达这里时，我就像卸下了肩上的重担。
Because I didn't have to [INAUDIBLE] deal with any of that anymore.
因为我不再需要[听不清]处理这些事情。
I didn't have to think about my husband getting picked up by ICE on our way to church or whatever.
我不必考虑我丈夫在去教堂或其他地方的路上被 ICE 抓走。
I mean, the most simple, mundane activities in the US always had to involve some thought about immigration.
我的意思是，在美国最简单、最平凡的活动总是不得不涉及一些关于移民的想法。
And it might be a cop out just because I don't want to talk about immigration.
这可能只是因为我不想谈论移民问题而逃避。
I don't want to think about it.
我不想去想它。
I don't want to argue with anybody that it's not fair.
我不想与任何人争论这不公平。
I just don't feel like doing it.
我只是不想这样做。
I'm tired.
我累了。
I'm really, really tired.
我真的真的很累了。
You know.
你知道。
And I don't know.
我不知道。
Goodnight.
晚安。
This feels extremely too loud for what time it is.
对于现在的时间来说，这感觉太吵了。
It's 5:45.
现在是 5 点 45 分。
I take Gordo to work first.
我先带戈多去上班。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz [LAUGHS] He says he doesn't talk in the mornings.
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz [笑] 他说他早上不说话。
He's making fun of me because I don't talk in the mornings.
他取笑我，因为我早上不说话。
I hate talking in the morning.
我讨厌早上说话。
So we're on Hermanos Escobar now.
现在我们来谈谈赫马诺斯·埃斯科瓦尔。
And we're behind a line of buses.
我们在一排公交车后面。
They're all going to a maquila somewhere.
他们都要去某个地方的加工厂。
When I look at people going in and out of the maquilas, I just see a little dollar sign on everyone's forehead.
当我看着进出加工工厂的人们时，我只看到每个人的额头上都有一个小美元符号。
Because they most certainly make a ton of money off these poor people who are working for-- god, I don't even know what they make.
因为他们肯定从这些为之工作的穷人身上赚了很多钱——上帝啊，我什至不知道他们赚了什么。
It's like $0.80 an hour or something that he makes.
他每小时的收入大概是 0.80 美元之类的。
I don't even think it's that, actually.
事实上，我什至不认为是这样。
What?
什么？
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Emily Bonderer Cruz [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语] Emily Bonderer Cruz [说西班牙语]
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Woman [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语] 女人 [说西班牙语]
[SPEAKING SPANISH ANGRILY] Raymundo Cruz [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[愤怒地说西班牙语] Raymundo Cruz [说西班牙语]
Emily Bonderer Cruz And thankfully, we're dropping him off.
Emily Bonderer Cruz 谢天谢地，我们要送他了。
Have a good day!
祝你有美好的一天！
[LAUGHS] We're so not morning people.
[笑]我们可不是早起的人。
We'll have the most horrible fights in the morning.
早上我们将进行最可怕的战斗。
So I just dropped him off at the maquila.
所以我就把他送到了加工厂。
And he'll work there all day long.
他会在那里工作一整天。
He makes the harnesses for American cars.
他为美国汽车生产线束。
And now we're going to the bridge.
现在我们要去桥了。
There is literally no line.
实际上没有线路。
Oh, I'm so excited.
哦，我太兴奋了。
The line can go back a couple miles on a normal day, but I'm pulling right up onto the bridge.
正常情况下，线路可以倒退几英里，但我直接把车停到了桥上。
And I'm here.
我在这里。
[YAWNS]
[哈欠]
The basic routine is first texting my husband.
基本惯例是先给我丈夫发短信。
At the end of the day, this is Juarez and we have to make sure I didn't die.
归根结底，这是华雷斯，我们必须确保我没有死。
I mean, seriously.
我的意思是，认真的。
[BEEP] Gordo just texted me back to have a good day.
[BEEP] 戈多刚刚给我回了短信祝我有美好的一天。
[LAUGHS] We really just should not be talking to each other in the morning.
[笑]我们真的不应该在早上互相交谈。
It's detrimental to everything.
这对一切都是有害的。
So basic routine is texting.
所以基本的日常工作就是发短信。
And then makeup, social networking, maybe social networking, makeup, social networking.
然后是化妆、社交网络，也许是社交网络、化妆、社交网络。
It's pretty basic.
这是非常基本的。
Mascara.
睫毛膏。
Eyeshadow.
眼影。
OK, I'm still doing my makeup.
好吧，我还在化妆。
I'm almost about to cross already, though.
不过我已经快要穿越了。
It's always kind of fun to see the new agents confused about the white lady.
看到新特工对白人女士感到困惑总是很有趣。
Morning!
早晨！
Border Agent Morning, ma'am.
边境特工 早上好，女士。
Where you going today?
今天你去哪儿？
Work.
工作。
Border Agent What are you bringing from Mexico?
边境特工 你从墨西哥带了什么？
Thank you.
谢谢。
You too.
你也是。
Border Agent Thank you.
边境代理谢谢你。
And that was that.
就是这样。
So it's 6:21 and I don't go to work until 8 o'clock.
现在是 6 点 21 分，我要到 8 点才去上班。
So now I have like an hour and a half before I really [YAWNS] need to be at work.
所以现在我还有大约一个半小时的时间才能真正[打哈欠]去上班。
So I'm going to go to sleep.
所以我要去睡觉了。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
This is what I do.
这就是我所做的。
You have only a handful of options.
你只有几个选择。
You can go to Walmart, which is a very popular option.
您可以去沃尔玛，这是一个非常受欢迎的选择。
You can go to McDonald's, another very popular option.
您可以去麦当劳，这是另一个非常受欢迎的选择。
Or you can go to sleep in your car.
或者你可以在车里睡觉。
And that, my friends, is what I'm going to do.
我的朋友们，这就是我要做的。
And I have a little handful of parking lots that I frequent.
我有一些我经常光顾的停车场。
But my favorite is this golf course by my work.
但我最喜欢的是我工作的这个高尔夫球场。
It's really quiet and there's a public pool there.
这里真的很安静，而且那里还有一个公共游泳池。
And I think there's a swimming class at 6:30.
我想 6:30 有游泳课。
But it lasts a couple of hours.
但它会持续几个小时。
So I wonder if they think I'm homeless.
所以我想知道他们是否认为我无家可归。
I think about things like that way too much.
我对这样的事情想得太多了。
It's hard to say what Juarez really means to me.
很难说华雷斯对我来说真正意味着什么。
It's everything for us.
这对我们来说就是一切。
To me, Juarez is the perfect combination of heaven and hell on Earth.
对我来说，华雷斯是人间天堂和地狱的完美结合。
Despite this raging drug war going on, despite all of the bad things in the city, it's the first place that's ever opened its arms to my husband and I, the first place we can both legally call home.
尽管这场激烈的毒品战争仍在继续，尽管这座城市有很多不好的事情，但这是第一个向我和我丈夫张开双臂的地方，第一个我们可以合法称之为家的地方。
And it's our own little paradise.
这是我们自己的小天堂。
[YAWNS] [LAUGHS] So tired.
[哈欠][笑]太累了。
OK, so I'm going to go to my little golf course and fall asleep.
好的，我要去我的小高尔夫球场睡觉了。
I have my pillow and my blanket that I keep in the car.
我把枕头和毯子放在车里。
And that's that.
就是这样。
Oh my gosh, what a beautiful sunrise.
天啊，多么美丽的日出啊。
Gosh.
天哪。
Emily Bonderer Cruz.
艾米莉·邦德尔·克鲁兹。
Her radio diary was produced by Ann Heppermann with help from Debbie Nathan.
她的广播日记是由安·赫珀曼 (Ann Heppermann) 在黛比·内森 (Debbie Nathan) 的帮助下制作的。
To read Emily's blog, go to therealhousewifeofcuidadjuarez.blogspot.com.
要阅读 Emily 的博客，请访问 therealhousewifeofcuidadjuarez.blogspot.com。
Emily has chosen some favorite posts from her site that we linked to from our website, thisamericanlife.org.
Emily 从她的网站中选择了一些最喜欢的帖子，我们从我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org 链接到这些帖子。
Act Three, Moving On Up.
第三幕，继续前进。
In Israel there's this writer named Sayed Kashua who's a prolific cultural force in that country.
在以色列，有一位名叫赛义德·卡舒亚（Sayed Kashua）的作家，他是该国多产的文化力量。
He's a novelist.
他是一位小说家。
He writes a popular, very funny TV show, where the main character is based on him.
他写了一个很受欢迎、非常有趣的电视节目，其中的主角就是以他为原型的。
And he has a weekly newspaper column.
他还有一个每周报纸专栏。
And his newspaper columns are basically this very frank, very entertaining conversation he's been having with the entire country for years now.
他的报纸专栏基本上就是他多年来与整个国家进行的非常坦率、非常有趣的对话。
They're about his day-to-day life.
它们与他的日常生活有关。
Picking up his kids, buying furniture, stuff like that.
接孩子，买家具，诸如此类。
And while the columns are not explicitly political, he's a minority in Israel.
虽然这些专栏没有明确的政治色彩，但他在以色列是少数派。
He's an Arab who is also an Israeli citizen.
他是阿拉伯人，也是以色列公民。
Which, as you might expect, is complicated.
正如您所料，这很复杂。
A few years ago, Kashua and his wife and kids moved from East Jerusalem-- where most of the Arabs in the city live-- to West Jerusalem, where it's almost all Jews, no Arabs.
几年前，卡舒亚和他的妻子和孩子从东耶路撒冷（该市大多数阿拉伯人居住的地方）搬到了西耶路撒冷，那里几乎都是犹太人，没有阿拉伯人。
And that kind of blew people's minds, including his.
这让人们大吃一惊，包括他自己。
He and his wife made the move to get a better apartment in a neighborhood that had better services.
他和他的妻子搬到了一个服务更好的社区，买了一套更好的公寓。
But the move was radical in a country where even middle class and rich Arab Israelis do not usually live among Jews, especially in Jerusalem.
但在这个国家，即使是中产阶级和富有的阿拉伯以色列人通常也不与犹太人一起生活，尤其是在耶路撒冷，这一举动是激进的。
His columns are reports from the kind of citizen that every country has, the insider outsider.
他的专栏是来自每个国家都有的那种公民的报道，即局内局外人。
Here are excerpts from those columns translated from Hebrew and read by actor Ramsey Faragallah.
以下是从希伯来语翻译并由演员拉姆齐·法拉加拉朗读的专栏摘录。
October 18, 2012.
2012 年 10 月 18 日。
It was the coffee machine that ultimately shed new light on my social situation.
咖啡机最终让我对我的社交状况有了新的了解。
As usual, it all started because of my wife.
和往常一样，这一切都是因为我的妻子而开始的。
Don't get me wrong.
别误会我的意思。
I can be a real jerk, but I do love my wife.
我可能是一个真正的混蛋，但我确实爱我的妻子。
Today more than ever.
今天比以往任何时候都多。
I've mentioned before that our apartment suddenly started to get on her nerves.
我之前提到过我们的公寓突然开始让她感到不安。
At first there were trivial comments like, "These shower hooks are really annoying," or "There's not even a proper place for the shoe closet," even though we never had a shoe closet.
起初，有一些琐碎的评论，比如“这些淋浴挂钩真的很烦人”，或者“甚至没有合适的地方放鞋柜”，尽管我们从来没有鞋柜。
The complaints gathered momentum after our third child was born.
我们的第三个孩子出生后，这种抱怨愈演愈烈。
"I think we need another room for the baby." "We have to paint.
“我想我们需要另一个房间给孩子住。” “我们必须画画。
Have you seen the walls?
你见过墙壁吗？
They're already black from the kids' hands."
它们已经被孩子们的手染黑了。”
Very quickly, the home that I loved so much, in the building I love, in the neighborhood I love became a nightmare.
很快，我深爱的家、我爱的大楼、我爱的社区变成了一场噩梦。
So I asked my wife, "What do you say to renovating?"
于是我问妻子：“你觉得装修怎么样？”
I don't know how or why, but of the three renovating teams who were bidding to just basically build a plaster wall and paint the place, I found myself choosing the team that gave me a price three times higher than that of any of the others, an Ashkenazi architect with a Mizrahi interior designer.
我不知道如何或为什么，但在三个投标的装修团队中，他们的投标只是建造一面石膏墙并粉刷这个地方，我发现自己选择了给我的价格比其他任何人高出三倍的团队，一个德系建筑师和一个米兹拉希室内设计师。
Maybe it was the iPad that the interior designer used when he presented the work plan.
也许是室内设计师在展示工作计划时使用的iPad。
Or maybe it was just because every time he said "plaster wall, " he added the adjective "designer."
或者也许只是因为每次他说“石膏墙”时，他都会加上形容词“设计师”。
I closed the deal with the Ashkenazi, who promised to go with my wife to all the stores to choose the color of the designer plaster wall, pick out the shoe closet, and find the hooks that best suited her needs.
我与阿什肯纳兹人达成了协议，他答应和我的妻子一起去所有商店选择设计师石膏墙的颜色，挑选鞋柜，找到最适合她需要的挂钩。
Because the most important thing in interior design is for the house to meet your needs, said the interior designer, pointing at my wife.
“因为室内设计最重要的是让房子满足你的需求。”室内设计师指着我的妻子说道。
"14,000 shekels for a paint job!" my father shouted at me.
“油漆工作要 14,000 谢克尔！”我父亲对我大喊。
"For what?
“为了什么？
On every electricity pole there is a sign, paint your home for 1,800 shekels."
每根电线杆上都有一个标语：用 1800 谢克尔粉刷你的房子。”
"What 1,800 shekels?" I said.
“1,800 谢克尔是多少？”我说。
"And anyway, we're talking about designer paint, Dad!"
“无论如何，我们正在谈论设计师油漆，爸爸！”
My father still lives in the village where I grew up, Tira.
我父亲仍然住在我长大的村庄蒂拉。
He tried to explain to me that I'm an imbecile.
他试图向我解释我是个白痴。
That in Tira, you could get a new shower and a paint job with a plaster wall, even a designer one, for a tenth of the price.
在蒂拉，你可以花十分之一的价格买一个新的淋浴间和粉刷石膏墙，甚至是设计师设计的墙。
I tried to explain to him that I don't live in Tira, that the interior designer promised that the finished work would last a lifetime.
我试图向他解释我不住在蒂拉，室内设计师承诺完成的作品将持续一生。
And that anyway, there was nothing that could be done about it.
无论如何，对此我们无能为力。
Life in West Jerusalem in my neighborhood costs a little more, with all due respect to Tira.
恕我直言，我家附近的西耶路撒冷生活成本要高一些，恕我直言，蒂拉。
"You're a dunce," my father concluded.
“你就是个笨蛋，”我父亲总结道。
"Do what you like."
“做你喜欢做的事。”
I felt like making coffee.
我想煮咖啡。
At least I wanted to, but the milk frother in the machine-- which you have to belong to an exclusive customer club in order to use-- had stopped working.
至少我想这么做，但是机器里的奶泡器——你必须属于专属客户俱乐部才能使用——已经停止工作了。
I called customer service.
我打电话给客服。
"That's right," I was told after a lengthy hold.
“没错，”我在长时间的等待后被告知。
"The machine is still under warranty." It would be picked up for repair within three working days.
“机器还在保修期内。”三个工作日内即可上门维修。
In the meantime, while I was waiting for the coffee machine, I realized that the plaster wall and paint job had morphed into a replacement of old doors, installation of an entirely new air conditioning system called something like Inventor, and the sudden urgent need for a new bedroom set whose size would be compatible with the modern design.
与此同时，当我在等待咖啡机时，我意识到灰泥墙和油漆工作已经演变成更换旧门，安装一个名为“发明家”之类的全新空调系统，以及突然迫切需要一套尺寸与现代设计兼容的新卧室套件。
"Adjustable, " my wife called it.
“可调节，”我妻子这样称呼它。
The interior designer also suggested moving the piano to a different location, and building an acoustic wall that would contain the sound.
室内设计师还建议将钢琴移至其他位置，并建造一面隔音墙来容纳声音。
And he proposed that I please put some life into my anemic study.
他建议我为我贫乏的学习注入一些活力。
And I agreed, even though I didn't understand exactly what that meant.
我同意了，尽管我不太明白这意味着什么。
His iPad has a calculator, and a few quick clicks produced the sum of more than 100,000 shekels, not counting the shoe closet.
他的 iPad 上有一个计算器，快速点击几下就得出了超过 100,000 谢克尔的总和，这还不包括鞋柜。
It took me a moment to recall that I had intended to spend no more than 20,000 shekels.
我过了一会儿才想起来我原本打算花不超过 20,000 谢克尔。
I lapsed into depression, because I had already made the down payment and because I didn't want to tell my wife that we might not be able to meet the future payments.
我陷入了沮丧，因为我已经付了首付，而且我不想告诉我的妻子我们可能无法支付未来的付款。
So I said nothing, and she gave me a designer smile such as I hadn't seen for a few years.
所以我什么也没说，她给了我一个设计师般的微笑，这是我几年来从未见过的。
A few days later, on the day when we were supposed to get our prestigious coffee machine back from repairs between 5:00 and 7:00 PM, she said, "Do you know what's most unsuited to my needs in this apartment?" "Yes," I said.
几天后，当我们应该在下午 5:00 到 7:00 之间修理好我们著名的咖啡机时，她说：“你知道这间公寓里什么最不适合我的需求吗？” “是的，”我说。
"All the inconvenient things.
“所有不方便的事情。
But everything is going to be fine."
但一切都会好起来的。”
"No," she said.
“不，”她说。
"I think I'm deceiving myself with all this new design and renovation."
“我认为所有这些新设计和翻新都是在欺骗自己。”
"I don't understand," I said, genuinely not understanding.
“我不明白，”我说，真的不明白。
"What bothers me the most," she said, "is that since we've moved here, you haven't wanted to barbecue.
“最让我烦恼的是，”她说，“自从我们搬到这里，你就不想烧烤了。
I so much want you to barbecue like we used to back in the village every Friday."
我非常希望你能像我们以前每周五回到村里那样烧烤。”
"Barbecue?" I felt my blood pressure rising.
“烧烤？”我感觉我的血压在上升。
"I'm going to spend $100,000 shekels for an interior designer and all you really want is a barbecue?"
“我要花 10 万谢克尔请一位室内设计师，而你真正想要的只是烧烤？”
"Well," she said, "I miss the village.
“嗯，”她说，“我想念那个村庄。
And the days when you weren't embarrassed to barbecue next to the neighbors." At that point, the phone rang.
还有那些和邻居一起烧烤并不尴尬的日子。”就在这时，电话响了。
"Hello," the voice on the phone said as I started to foam at the mouth.
“你好，”电话里的声音说，我开始口吐白沫。
"I'm from the delivery company.
“我是快递公司的。
I have a coffee machine for you.
我有一台咖啡机给你。
What's the address?" he asked in Arabic.
地址是什么？”他用阿拉伯语问道。
I gave him the address.
我给了他地址。
He was silent for a while.
他沉默了一会儿。
And then he said, "But I only deliver in East Jerusalem.
然后他说：“但我只在东耶路撒冷交付。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
I was told you were an Arab."
我听说你是阿拉伯人。”
"You know what?" I replied in Arabic, "Forget it.
“你知道吗？”我用阿拉伯语回答说：“算了。
I don't want the espresso machine.
我不想要浓缩咖啡机。
I don't even like that kind of coffee."
我什至不喜欢那种咖啡。”
November 22, 2012.
2012 年 11 月 22 日。
The renovations have begun.
装修工程已经开始。
The apartment is in chaos and I've decided that I'm going to buy the most comfortable bed I can find, and this time I won't even look at the price.
公寓一片混乱，我决定买一张我能找到的最舒服的床，这次我连价格都不看。
I picked up my wife from work and we went to buy the bed of our dreams.
我接妻子下班，然后我们去买了我们梦想中的床。
"We want the most comfortable bed you have in the store," I declared to the saleswoman who approached us with a smile.
“我们想要店里最舒适的床，”我微笑着向走近我们的女售货员宣布。
"Of course," she said, leading us to the area of the double beds.
“当然，”她说，带我们走向双人床区域。
"Are you interested in an adjustable bed?"
“您对可调节床感兴趣吗？”
"Only adjustable," I declared festively.
“只能调节，”我喜气洋洋地宣称。
And the polite saleswoman smiled once again and accompanied us to the area of the adjustables.
那位礼貌的女售货员再次微笑着，陪着我们来到了调节装置的区域。
"Ah," I sighed as I sprawled on the mattress and closed my eyes.
“啊，”我叹了口气，躺在床垫上闭上了眼睛。
"We also have it in 6 and 1/2 feet wide."
“我们还有 6 又 1/2 英尺宽的产品。”
"6 and 1/2 feet, hmm." I said to the saleswoman.
“6又1/2英尺，嗯。”我对售货员说。
"Exactly how much does the same bed cost in that size?" When she told me, I shouted.
“同样尺寸的床到底要多少钱？”当她告诉我时，我大喊。
"How much?"
“多少？”
"I'll ask the store manager.
“我去问问店长。
Maybe he can give you a better price," she said.
也许他可以给你一个更好的价格，”她说。
"That's insane," I said to my wife when the saleswoman went to call the manager.
“这太疯狂了，”当女售货员去给经理打电话时，我对妻子说。
"All that money for what?
“这么多钱干什么？
For foam, a few springs, and the remote control of a toy racing car?"
想要泡沫、一些弹簧和玩具赛车的遥控器？”
"You said you didn't care about the price," she said.
“你说过你不在乎价格，”她说。
"Why do you even bother making declarations like that?"
“你为什么还要费力发表这样的声明呢？”
"Why?
“为什么？
Did I think those were going to be the prices?
我以为这些就是价格吗？
I was willing to waste up to 5,000 shekels.
我最多愿意浪费5000谢克尔。
And I thought that for 4,000 shekels, I would be able to get the best mattress on the market."
我认为只要 4,000 谢克尔，我就能买到市场上最好的床垫。”
"Well, apparently this is the real price of mattresses," she said.
“嗯，显然这就是床垫的真实价格，”她说。
"Shalom," said the store manager, who came up to us with an amazingly wide smile.
“Shalom，”商店经理说道，他带着令人惊讶的灿烂笑容向我们走来。
He introduced himself and offered his hand, and I introduced myself when I shook his hand.
他介绍了自己并伸出了手，我在与他握手时也介绍了自己。
"Pleased to meet you, 'Sa-eed,'" he continued in Hebrew, mispronouncing my name.
“很高兴见到你，‘萨伊德’，”他用希伯来语继续说道，并念错了我的名字。
I didn't correct him.
我没有纠正他。
Neither did my wife.
我的妻子也没有。
He was quite nice, the manager, despite the prices he was asking.
经理他人很好，尽管他要价很高。
And he had a slight speech problem.
他还有轻微的言语问题。
He spoke very slowly, emphasizing each letter and nodding his head after every word.
他说得很慢，强调每个字母，每说完一个字就点点头。
(SPEAKING SLOWLY) "You know about this mattress?" he asked, naming the brand that every child in Israel is familiar with.
（慢慢地说）“你知道这个床垫吗？”他问道，并说出了以色列每个孩子都熟悉的品牌。
"Yes," I replied in the same vein out of politeness, so he wouldn't think, god forbid, that my fast speech was meant to mock him.
“是的，”我出于礼貌以同样的方式回答，所以他不会认为，上帝保佑，我的快速讲话是为了嘲笑他。
(SPEAKING SLOWLY) "We've heard about that mattress."
（缓慢地说）“我们听说过那个床垫。”
"So you know which store you've come to?" He smiled and nodded.
“那你知道你来的是哪家店吗？”他微笑着点点头。
"Yes," I answered, and nodded too, smiling slowly.
“是的，”我回答道，也点点头，慢慢地微笑着。
I liked him, that manager.
我喜欢他，那个经理。
I also liked the chain for not hesitating to hire a manager with a speech impediment.
我还喜欢这家连锁店，因为它毫不犹豫地聘请了一位有语言障碍的经理。
I was already thinking of buying the mattress, although I had planned to spend a quarter of that amount.
我已经在考虑买床垫了，尽管我原计划花四分之一的钱。
But it would be worth it to support a business whose owners are, first of all, human beings.
但支持一家其所有者首先是人类的企业是值得的。
Suddenly he stopped talking to answer the cellphone that was ringing in his pants pockets.
突然他不再说话，去接裤兜里响起的手机铃声。
"Hello!" he answered with a speed that left me and my wife amazed.
“你好！”他回答的速度让我和我的妻子感到惊讶。
"Moshe, I'll get back to you in 15 minutes.
“Moshe，我会在 15 分钟内回复你。
[INAUDIBLE].
[听不清]。
Bye." And he hung up.
再见。”然后他挂断了电话。
(SPEAKING SLOWLY) "So where were we?" he continued slowly while nodding.
（缓慢地说）“那么我们在哪里？”他一边点头，一边缓慢地继续说道。
I looked at my wife, who looked back at me.
我看着我的妻子，她也看着我。
"Ah yes," he said.
“啊，是的，”他说。
"The mattress."
“床垫。”
"Listen," I said to him at top speed.
“听着，”我以最快的速度对他说。
"Listen, we know what this damn mattress is.
“听着，我们知道这个该死的床垫是什么。
Do you understand?"
你明白吗？”
"Yes," he answered in a panic.
“是的，”他惊慌地回答。
"But why are you angry?"
“但是你为什么生气呢？”
"Because we may be Arabs," I answered irritably, "but we aren't idiots!"
“因为我们可能是阿拉伯人，”我恼怒地回答，“但我们不是白痴！”
"God forbid!" apologized the manager, putting his hand on his chest.
“上帝禁止！”把手放在胸口向经理道歉。
"I definitely didn't mean that!
“我绝对不是这个意思！
I really didn't.
我真的没有。
I'm sorry if that's how it seemed to you!"
如果你也这么认为的话，我很抱歉！”
My wife took her bag and decided that we weren't buying anything from someone like him.
我妻子拿起她的包，决定我们不会从像他这样的人那里买任何东西。
"Not on your life!" I said as we started making our way out of the store.
“不关你的命！”当我们开始走出商店时，我说道。
"Racist idiot!"
“种族主义白痴！”
"Wait!", he chased after us.
“等等！”他追着我们。
"I apologize!"
“我道歉！”
"Forget it," I answered firmly.
“算了。”我坚定地回答。
"We're not doing business with someone like you!"
“我们不会和你这样的人做生意！”
"I'll give you a big discount," he pleaded.
“我会给你一个很大的折扣，”他恳求道。
"Forget about it," said my wife.
“算了，”我妻子说。
"It's not a matter of discount.
“这不是折扣的问题。
It's a matter of principle."
这是一个原则问题。”
"Look, I'll take off 25%.
“听着，我要减掉 25%。
What do you say?"
你说什么？”
"I said no," said my wife, with the determination of a social worker who believes that a principle is a principle.
“我说不，”我的妻子说道，语气里带着一个社会工作者的决心，他相信原则就是原则。
"I'll give it to you for half price!" insisted the manager, who really was sorry that he had spoken slowly.
“我半价给你！”经理坚持说，他真的很抱歉他说得慢。
"Principles are principles," continued my wife on her way out of the store, while I stopped in my tracks.
“原则就是原则，”我的妻子在走出商店的路上继续说道，而我却停下了脚步。
"I swear," he said.
“我发誓，”他说。
"And I've never done that for anyone, but I really didn't intend to insult you."
“我从来没有为任何人做过这样的事，但我真的无意侮辱你。”
"Sayed!" my wife shouted at me.
“说！”我的妻子对我大喊大叫。
"Where are your values?"
“你的价值观在哪里？”
"Forget values," I told her as I shook the hand of the nice salesman.
“忘掉价值观吧，”我一边跟那位好心的推销员握手，一边告诉她。
"The man told you (SPEAKING SLOWLY) half price.
“那个人告诉你（慢慢地说）半价。
Do you understand?" And with tears in his eyes, the salesman said that he would also give us pillows at a big discount.
你明白吗？”而且售货员眼里含着泪水说，他还会以很大的折扣给我们送枕头。
December 6, 2012.
2012 年 12 月 6 日。
It's been three weeks of renovation and we've started moving back into our apartment, even though it's still not completely finished.
装修已经三周了，我们已经开始搬回我们的公寓，尽管它还没有完全完工。
When we got there, two Arab workers from a company that specializes in cleaning renovated houses were toiling in the rooms.
当我们到达那里时，一家专门清洁翻新房屋的公司的两名阿拉伯工人正在房间里劳作。
I felt uncomfortable at having Arabs cleaning my place, but I just nodded and told the contractor who was supervising the renovation that everything was packed and in the car.
让阿拉伯人打扫我的房子让我感到不舒服，但我只是点点头，告诉负责装修的承包商，所有东西都已经打包好并放在车里了。
And that as soon as he gives the go ahead, I will start taking in the suitcases and bags.
一旦他同意，我就会开始收拾行李箱和包。
Besides the cleaners, the installer of the banister was also supposed to come.
除了清洁工之外，栏杆安装工也应该来。
"Two hours of work," the contractor said.
“两个小时的工作，”承包商说。
"He won't interfere with the cleaners and the cleaners won't interfere with him."
“他不会干扰清洁工，清洁工也不会干扰他。”
The banister guy arrived exactly on time.
栏杆工准时到达。
"This is Sayed," the contractor said as he introduced me.
“我是赛义德，”承包商介绍我时说道。
The man nodded and smiled.
男人微笑着点点头。
"Great, Sayed.
“太好了，赛义德。
There might be sparks, so I want you to follow me with a brush and fix up after me."
可能会产生火花，所以我希望你拿着刷子跟着我，跟着我修复。”
"No," the contractor said, embarrassed.
“不，”承包商尴尬地说。
"He's the owner."
“他是主人。”
"Ah," the installer said, and got to work.
“啊，”安装人员说道，然后开始工作。
"You know," my wife said to me on that sleepless night before the move back, "the house is really charming now.
“你知道，”在搬回来之前的那个不眠之夜，我的妻子对我说，“这栋房子现在真的很迷人。
It looks prestigious and comfortable.
它看起来高贵而舒适。
But still--" she stopped.
但仍然——”她停了下来。
"Still what?" I asked.
“还什么？”我问。
"I don't know," she said, as she always does when she knows.
“我不知道，”她说，就像她知道时总是做的那样。
"I'm just thinking about the children again.
“我只是又想起了孩子们。
About what this is doing to them.
关于这对他们做了什么。
How they feel.
他们的感受如何。
How it will affect their behavior and the way they get along."
这将如何影响他们的行为和相处方式。”
"Again the thing with the Jewish neighborhood?" I said.
“又是犹太社区的事？”我说。
"I'm not saying anything," she said.
“我什么也没说，”她说。
"It's a lovely apartment.
“这是一个可爱的公寓。
Very nice neighbors.
非常好的邻居。
But you know."
但你知道。”
"No. I absolutely, absolutely do not know," I replied with the jangled nerves of someone who had planned to spend only 20,000 shekels to add a room with a plaster wall, but found himself paying, as of that moment, more than 180,000 shekels.
“不。我绝对、绝对不知道。”我紧张地回答道，就像一个本来计划只花 20,000 谢克尔增加一间带有石膏墙的房间的人，但到那时为止，他发现自己支付了超过 180,000 谢克尔。
"I'm just asking myself," she said, striking a dramatic pose so the words would sink in.
“我只是在问自己，”她说，摆出一个戏剧性的姿势，以便让大家明白这句话。
"I'm just asking myself if this is our natural place.
“我只是问自己这是否是我们自然的地方。
And even more so for the children."
对于孩子们来说更是如此。”
"It is natural," I said.
“这是自然的，”我说。
"It's 100% natural."
“这是100%天然的。”
The banister guy came up to me smiling.
栏杆上的人微笑着向我走来。
"I hope you'll excuse me," he said.
“我希望你能原谅我，”他说。
"I just, I never imagined that you live here.
“我只是，我没想到你会住在这里。
You know what I mean, Sayed."
你知道我的意思，赛义德。”
"Sure," I said.
“当然，”我说。
"Sure, forget it." And I really meant that, because it didn't hurt me in the least that he thought I was an Arab laborer.
“当然，忘了吧。”我确实是这么想的，因为他认为我是阿拉伯劳工，这并没有伤害到我。
At least it didn't hurt me as much as the fact that I had two Arab workers doing their thing in my apartment and I had tried to avoid contact with them until one of them came over and spoke to me in Hebrew.
至少这对我的伤害没有那么大，因为我有两名阿拉伯工人在我的公寓里做他们的事情，我一直试图避免与他们接触，直到他们中的一个过来用希伯来语与我交谈。
"These shoes were thrown out," said the worker, who I estimated was my father's age.
“这些鞋子被扔掉了，”那个工人说，我估计他和我父亲的年龄一样。
"They were in the garbage.
“他们在垃圾堆里。
Can I have them for the kids?"
我可以给孩子们买吗？”
I choked up for an instant, not sure whether to smile, reply in Hebrew, and play the generous Jewish homeowner who takes pity on the wretches, or to answer in Arabic and come across as a maniac Arab who lives among Jews and throws out almost-new Nikes that were brought from the US in the wrong size for the kids.
我一时哽咽了，不知道是该微笑，用希伯来语回答，扮演一个怜悯可怜人的慷慨的犹太房主，还是用阿拉伯语回答，给人一种疯狂的阿拉伯人的印象，他生活在犹太人中间，扔掉从美国带来的几乎全新的耐克鞋，但尺寸不适合孩子们。
I found myself saying, [ARABIC] "Please, go ahead," in Arabic.
我发现自己用阿拉伯语说：[阿拉伯语]“请继续”。
And continuing in Arabic, "Of course you can take them.
然后用阿拉伯语继续说道：“当然你可以拿走它们。
And there are plenty more we had planned to donate if you want to have a look."
如果你想看的话，我们还计划捐赠更多。”
"Your Arabic is excellent," the worker said, still speaking in Hebrew.
“你的阿拉伯语非常棒，”这名工人仍然用希伯来语说道。
"I am an Arab," I declared.
“我是阿拉伯人，”我宣称。
The worker did a double take and asked, "And this is your place?"
工人愣了愣，问道：“这就是你住的地方吗？”
"Yes," I told him.
“是的，”我告诉他。
"We bought it a few years ago.
“我们几年前买了它。
Yes, this is my home."
是的，这就是我的家。”
"Wella," he said, still amazed.
“威拉，”他说道，仍然很惊讶。
"I never imagined.
“我从来没有想象过。
[FOREIGN LANGUAGE], thank you."
[外语]，谢谢。”
"For what?" I said.
“为了什么？”我说。
I didn't understand what he was thanking me for and I thought for a moment he was teasing me.
我不明白他在感谢我什么，有一瞬间我以为他在取笑我。
"The shoes," he said, holding them up with one hand to show me.
“鞋子，”他说，用一只手举起鞋子给我看。
"You're welcome," I said.
“不客气，”我说。
My face burned with shame.
我的脸羞得发烫。
I talked to my wife late that night after the children were asleep.
那天深夜，孩子们睡着后，我和妻子聊了聊。
"What can I do?" I said leaning back a little in my bed.
“我能做些什么？”我说着在床上稍微靠了靠。
"And what exactly is our natural place?
“我们的自然栖息地到底是什么？
What?"
什么？”
"I don't say it's easy," she said, invoking her social work phrases again.
“我并不是说这很容易，”她说，再次引用了她的社会工作短语。
"It can be very hard."
“这可能会非常困难。”
"So are you telling me that I have to live in an Arab village to feel I'm in a natural place?" I asked.
“那么你是在告诉我，我必须住在阿拉伯村庄才能感受到自己身处一个自然的地方吗？”我问。
"I'm not allowed city life?"
“我不被允许城市生活吗？”
"That's not what I'm saying," she said with a patience that I was quickly losing.
“我不是这个意思。”她的耐心说，但我很快就失去了耐心。
"Then what are you saying?" I insisted.
“那你说什么？”我坚持说。
"I really want to understand.
“我真的很想明白。
What are my options for being natural?
为了保持自然，我有哪些选择？
Hmm?
嗯？
To buy a crappy apartment in an Arab neighborhood in Jerusalem?
在耶路撒冷的阿拉伯社区买一套破烂的公寓？
To buy a place in the area that was conquered in 1967?
在 1967 年被征服的地区购买一块土地？
What, what is natural?
什么，什么是自然的？
To go back to the village?
要回村子吗？
Back to Tira to the family?
回到蒂拉与家人团聚？
To fights between siblings over every meter of land?
兄弟姐妹之间为了每一米土地而打架？
What is natural?
什么是自然的？
And what can I do in order to safeguard the children?
我能做些什么来保护孩子们？
You tell me that, please!
请你告诉我吧！
What is right and what is wrong?
什么是对的，什么是错的？
And I will do it!"
我会做到的！”
"I say you should go to sleep now," she said, rubbing cream into her hands and yawning.
“我说你现在应该去睡觉了，”她说，一边在手里擦着奶油，一边打着哈欠。
"You look tired."
“你看起来很累。”
"Yes," I said.
“是的，”我说。
"Goodnight." And I knew I would not sleep soundly.
“晚安。”我知道我睡不着。
Or wake up naturally.
或者自然醒。
Actor Ramsey Faragallah, reading excerpts from newspaper columns first published in Haaretz , written by Sayed Kashua.
演员拉姆齐·法拉加拉 (Ramsey Faragallah) 正在阅读赛义德·卡舒亚 (Sayed Kashua) 首次在《国土报》上发表的报纸专栏摘录。
Kashua's latest novel-- it's been translated into English-- is called Second Person Singular .
卡舒亚的最新小说——已被翻译成英文——名为《第二人称单数》。
[MUSIC - "HOME" BY G.
[音乐 - G.“家”
LOVE] Credits Ira Glass Our program was produced today by Miki Meek and myself, with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Sarah Koenig, Jonathan Menjivar, Lisa Pollak, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
LOVE] 致谢 Ira Glass 今天我们的节目由 Miki Meek 和我自己制作，参与人员还有 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Sarah Koenig、Jonathan Menjivar、Lisa Pollak、Brian Reed、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder with production help from Phia Bennin.
我们的高级制片人是 Julie Snyder，并由 Phia Bennin 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind's our operations director.
塞思·林德是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our production manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。
Elise Ferguson's our administrative assistant.
埃莉斯·弗格森是我们的行政助理。
Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddes.
Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddes 提供音乐帮助。
Research by Michelle Harris.
米歇尔·哈里斯的研究。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
[致谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our show by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia, who has-- this is no joke at all-- after all these years resigned from WBEZ this week.
我们的老板托里·马拉蒂亚 (Torey Malatia) 先生对我们的节目进行 WBEZ 管理监督，他——这根本不是开玩笑——在经历了这些年之后，他本周从 WBEZ 辞职了。
That is the truth.
这是事实。
I will miss him very badly.
我会非常想念他。
Our program would not exist without him.
没有他，我们的计划就不会存在。
And should we even do this?
我们甚至应该这样做吗？
Yeah, we have to do this.
是的，我们必须这样做。
We can't stop doing this.
我们不能停止这样做。
OK.
好的。
Torey, of course, is moving on to other things.
当然，托雷正在转向其他事情。
Though what does he got planned for this weekend?
不过他这个周末有什么计划呢？
I'm gonna go commit a crime, make me some money, and then go get me a dope sack.
我要去犯罪，赚点钱，然后去给我拿一袋毒品。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life .
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。