500: 500! - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #500 | July 12, 2013 500: 500!
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 500 集 | 2013 年 7 月 12 日 500：500！
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
序言 Ira Glass 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这就是美国生活，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass, and this is our 500th episode.
我是 Ira Glass，这是我们的第 500 集。
And what does that feel like?
那感觉如何？
Well, it feels like both a milestone and it feels like nothing.
嗯，感觉既像是一个里程碑，又感觉什么都不是。
It fills like an odometer clicking over.
它就像里程表点击一样充满。
I was talking to the show's senior producer, Julie Snyder, about this.
我正在与该剧的高级制片人朱莉·斯奈德谈论此事。
She's been here for 15 of the show's 17 years, since episode number 58.
从第 58 集开始，她已经在这部剧 17 年中待了 15 年。
Five hun-- what-- I just-- I just come to work.
五魂——什么——我只是——我刚来上班。
I do my job.
我做我的工作。
I go home.
我回家了。
No, it really is a blur.
不，确实是一片模糊。
Ira Glass It is a blur.
艾拉·格拉斯 这是一片模糊。
And over the last few weeks here at the radio show, we talked about what we should do for the 500th episode.
在过去几周的广播节目中，我们讨论了应该为第 500 集做什么。
And like, first of all, should we mark it at all?
首先，我们应该标记它吗？
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
Like 500 shows on the radio actually isn't that big of a deal for most programs.
对于大多数节目来说，广播中的 500 个节目实际上并不是什么大不了的事。
Like Terry Gross, she knocks through 500 shows like every two years.
和 Terry Gross 一样，她大约每两年就完成 500 场演出。
Doesn't even notice.
甚至没有注意到。
Just spins right by them.
就在他们身边旋转。
Lots of shows are like that.
很多节目都是这样。
But, you know, the kind of show that we do here, it takes three or four months to make each episode.
但是，你知道，我们在这里做的那种节目，每集需要三四个月的时间来制作。
So that is different.
所以这是不同的。
And besides that, you know, 500, the number 500-- that is a number you notice.
除此之外，你知道，500，500这个数字——这是一个你注意到的数字。
And if we didn't do something today, like that would feel weird, you know?
如果我们今天不做点什么，就会感觉很奇怪，你知道吗？
So anyway, so as we talked about different things that we could do for this episode, at some point, Julie had the idea that it might be fun to go back to the archives and choose favorite moments from the last 499 episodes.
所以无论如何，当我们谈论我们可以为这一集做的不同事情时，朱莉在某个时候想到，返回档案并从过去 499 集中选择最喜欢的时刻可能会很有趣。
And all this hour, you're going to be hearing the producers of the program, the people who find the stories and who put them together each week, talking about their very favorite moments that we have ever put on the radio.
在这一小时里，您将听到节目的制作人、发现故事并每周将它们组合在一起的人，谈论我们在广播中播放过的他们最喜欢的时刻。
And the reasons that the producers picked their favorites, I think, are different than the reasons that most listeners would give.
我认为，制作人选择他们最喜欢的歌曲的原因与大多数听众给出的原因不同。
Some of them chose stories that had been, I have to say, completely forgotten by the rest of the staff for years.
我不得不说，他们中的一些人选择的故事多年来一直被其他员工完全遗忘。
Some chose just, like, one little section of script.
有些人只选择了一小部分剧本。
Some chose, like, a scene that secretly made them cry and they never told the rest of us.
有些人选择了一个让他们偷偷哭泣的场景，但他们从未告诉我们其他人。
They said things like this.
他们说了这样的话。
When I heard that, I was like, wow, that's one articulate bank robber.
当我听到这个消息时，我就想，哇，这真是一位能言善辩的银行抢劫犯。
And then as it unfolds, you just realize, like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
然后随着事情的展开，你就会意识到，不，不，不，不，不，不，不。
I felt like I'd been hit by a car or something.
我感觉自己好像被车撞了或者什么的。
But in a nice way.
但以一种很好的方式。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
It just made me really mad.
这让我真的很生气。
Do you remember this?
你还记得这个吗？
(STAMMERING) It's mind-blowing.
（结巴）这真是令人兴奋。
And so I am really excited to play you the stuff that we have found.
所以我真的很高兴能为你们演奏我们发现的东西。
And let's just jump in.
让我们开始吧。
Julie Snyder, our senior producer, is the mastermind behind a lot of our most ambitious shows, like Harper High School episodes, if you've heard those.
我们的高级制片人朱莉·斯奈德 (Julie Snyder) 是我们许多最雄心勃勃的节目的幕后策划者，比如《哈珀高中》剧集（如果您听说过的话）。
And she came into the studio with a list of favorite stories from over the years, starting with a shortie.
她带着多年来最喜欢的故事清单走进工作室，从一个短片开始。
It's only like a minute long.
好像只有一分钟那么长。
Ira Glass OK.
艾拉·格拉斯 好的。
It's really, really lovely writing that I have thought about ever since it aired, I don't know, 12 years ago, 14 years ago.
自从它播出以来，我一直在思考这真的是非常非常可爱的写作，我不知道，12年前，14年前。
Wow.
哇。
What in the world are you talking about?
你到底在说什么？
It's from Sarah Vowell's Trail of Tears story.
这是莎拉·沃威尔的《泪痕》故事中的一段话。
Can you guess it?
你能猜到吗？
Hold on.
坚持，稍等。
Julie Snyder That's a whole show.
朱莉·斯奈德 这是一整场演出。
Like America is a country that hits you but-- that's not the moment.
Like America is a country that hits you but-- that's not the moment.
It is.
这是。
Ira Glass I can't remember the set-up for it.
Ira Glass：我不记得它的设置了。
I just remember the punchline of it.
我只记得其中的妙语。
Well, the set-up-- OK.
嗯，设置——好的。
Well, so the story, right, is that Sarah is part Cherokee.
嗯，所以这个故事是正确的，莎拉有切罗基血统。
And she and her twin sister Amy go on this road trip, going from Georgia driving to Oklahoma, following the Trail of Tears.
她和她的双胞胎妹妹艾米开始了这次公路旅行，从佐治亚州开车到俄克拉荷马州，沿着泪水之路。
And--
还有——
That their ancestors had walked before them.
他们的祖先曾经走在他们前面。
Exactly.
确切地。
That their ancestors have walked when the Cherokee were expelled from Georgia.
That their ancestors have walked when the Cherokee were expelled from Georgia.
And it's super depressing.
而且超级郁闷。
I mean, what would a trip like that be?
我的意思是，这样的旅行会是什么样的呢？
It is.
这是。
It's just depressing.
真是令人沮丧。
So it's very hard to know what to do with all these feelings.
So it's very hard to know what to do with all these feelings.
And so that's where her writing picks up.
这就是她写作的亮点。
You want to hear it?
你想听吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Julie Snyder OK.
朱莉·斯奈德 好的。
It's "Trail of Tears," starting at 45:14.
这是“Trail of Tears”，从 45:14 开始。
OK, here we go.
好的，我们开始吧。
[MUSIC - CHUCK BERRY, "BACK IN THE USA"]
[音乐 - 查克·贝里，“回到美国”]
The most happiness I find on the trip is when we're in the car and I can blare the Chuck Berry tape I brought.
我在旅途中找到的最快乐的事情就是当我们在车里时，我可以播放我带来的 Chuck Berry 磁带。
We drive the trail where thousands died, and I listen to music and think, what are we supposed to do with the grizzly past?
We drive the trail where thousands died, and I listen to music and think, what are we supposed to do with the grizzly past?
I feel a righteous anger and bitterness about every historical fact of what the American nation did to the Cherokee.
对于美国民族对切罗基人所做的每一个历史事实，我都感到正义的愤怒和痛苦。
But at the same time, I'm an entirely American creature.
But at the same time, I'm an entirely American creature.
I'm in love with this song and the country that gave birth to it.
我爱上了这首歌和诞生这首歌的国家。
[MUSIC - CHUCK BERRY, "BACK IN THE USA"]
[音乐 - 查克·贝里，“回到美国”]
Listening to "Back in the USA" while driving the Trail of Tears, I turn it over and over in my head.
一边开车行驶在泪痕之路上，一边听着《回到美国》，我在脑海里翻来覆去。
It's a good country.
这是一个好国家。
It's a bad country.
这是一个糟糕的国家。
Good country.
好国家。
Bad country.
糟糕的国家。
And of course, it's both.
当然，两者都是。
When I think about my relationship with America, I feel like a battered wife.
当我想到我与美国的关系时，我感觉自己就像一个受虐待的妻子。
Yeah, he knocks me around a lot, but boy, he sure can dance.
Yeah, he knocks me around a lot, but boy, he sure can dance.
[MUSIC - CHUCK BERRY, "BACK IN THE USA"]
[音乐 - 查克·贝里，“回到美国”]
Isn't that so nice?
那不是很好吗？
Ira Glass It's perfect.
艾拉·格拉斯 太完美了。
I know.
我知道。
I remember-- I remember when she wrote it.
我记得——我记得她写的时候。
I remember reading it.
我记得读过它。
I remember when it aired.
我记得当时播出的时候
I just thought it was great.
我只是觉得这很棒。
I love that writing.
我喜欢那篇文章。
And I think about it all the time.
我一直在思考这个问题。
I think about it for so many times when trying to put stuff-- like how do you hold two thoughts together?
I think about it for so many times when trying to put stuff-- like how do you hold two thoughts together?
You mean about this country?
你是说这个国家吗？
Julie Snyder Yes.
朱莉·斯奈德 是的。
All right, you want another one?
好吧，你想要再来一份吗？
Mm-hm.
嗯嗯。
Julie Snyder OK, you want to do "Testosterone"?
朱莉·斯奈德 好吧，你想做“睾酮”吗？
Sure.
当然。
Julie Snyder All right.
朱莉·斯奈德 好吧。
I really do-- so this is another one.
我确实如此——所以这是另一件事。
I'll just continue to do these through how they personally affected me.
I'll just continue to do these through how they personally affected me.
Good.
好的。
Julie Snyder So "Testosterone," this is the one where I feel so bad for you guys.
Julie Snyder So "Testosterone," this is the one where I feel so bad for you guys.
I feel really bad for men.
I feel really bad for men.
This blew my mind, the interview that Alex did with Griffin Hansbury.
This blew my mind, the interview that Alex did with Griffin Hansbury.
Griffin Hansbury.
格里芬·汉斯伯里。
Julie Snyder Yeah.
朱莉·斯奈德 是的。
And so Griffin was talking to Alex about-- Griffin was born a woman and went to Bryn Mawr, and was a feminist, and really-- you know what I mean?
所以格里芬正在和亚历克斯谈论——格里芬出生时是一个女人，去了布林莫尔大学，并且是一名女权主义者，而且真的——你知道我的意思吗？
Yeah, lesbian feminist.
是的，女同性恋女权主义者。
Julie Snyder Lesbian feminist.
朱莉·斯奈德 女同性恋女权主义者。
And then so then, Griffin decided to transition, and so he started taking testosterone.
And then so then, Griffin decided to transition, and so he started taking testosterone.
And he started taking pretty intense amounts, apparently.
And he started taking pretty intense amounts, apparently.
Like way more than a man has.
比一个男人拥有的还要多。
Julie Snyder Yeah, it's like, I think, twice.
朱莉·斯奈德：是的，我想，好像是两次。
And so this part of the interview is when Griffin is telling Alex about the effects of the testosterone.
And so this part of the interview is when Griffin is telling Alex about the effects of the testosterone.
The most overwhelming feeling is the incredible increase in libido and change in the way that I perceived women and the way I thought about sex.
The most overwhelming feeling is the incredible increase in libido and change in the way that I perceived women and the way I thought about sex.
Before testosterone, I would be riding the subway, which is the traditional hotbed of lust in the city.
在睾丸激素出现之前，我会乘坐地铁，这是城市传统的欲望温床。
And I would see a woman on the subway, and I would think, she's attractive.
我会在地铁上看到一个女人，我会想，她很有吸引力。
I'd like to meet her.
我想见见她。
What's that book she's reading?
她正在读的那本书是什么？
I could talk to her.
我可以和她说话。
This is what I would say.
这就是我要说的。
There would be a narrative.
会有一个叙述。
There would be this stream of language.
会有这种语言流。
It would be very verbal.
这将是非常口语化的。
After testosterone, there was no narrative.
睾丸激素之后，就没有叙述了。
There was no language, whatsoever.
没有任何语言。
It was just, I would see a woman who was attractive-- or not attractive.
It was just, I would see a woman who was attractive-- or not attractive.
She might have an attractive quality, nice ankles or something, and the rest of her would be fairly unappealing to me.
她可能有一种有吸引力的品质，漂亮的脚踝什么的，而她的其他部分对我来说就相当没有吸引力了。
But that was enough to basically just flood my mind with aggressive pornographic images, just one after another.
但这足以让我的脑海中充满侵略性的色情图片，一个接一个。
It was like being in a pornographic movie house in my mind.
在我的脑海里，就像身处色情电影院一样。
And I couldn't turn it off.
我无法将其关闭。
I mean, I could not turn it off.
我的意思是，我无法将其关闭。
Everything I looked at, everything I touched turned to sex.
Everything I looked at, everything I touched turned to sex.
What did you do with that?
你用它做了什么？
I mean, what did you think?
我的意思是，你觉得怎么样？
Well, I felt-- I felt like a monster, a lot of the time.
嗯，我觉得——很多时候我感觉自己像个怪物。
And it made me understand men.
它让我了解男人。
It made me understand adolescent boys, a lot.
它让我更加了解青春期的男孩。
Suddenly, hair sprouting, and I'm turning into this beast.
突然，头发长出来了，我变成了这只野兽。
And I would kind of-- I would really kind of berate myself for it.
And I would kind of-- I would really kind of berate myself for it.
I remember walking up Fifth Avenue, and there was a woman walking in front of me.
I remember walking up Fifth Avenue, and there was a woman walking in front of me.
And she was wearing this little skirt and this little top.
她穿着这条小裙子和这件小上衣。
And I was looking at her ass.
我正在看着她的屁股。
And I kept saying to myself, don't look at it, don't look at it.
我一直对自己说，不要看它，不要看它。
And I kept looking at it.
我一直看着它。
And I walked past her, and this voice in my head kept saying, turn around to look at her breasts.
我从她身边走过，脑海里一直有这个声音说，转过身来看看她的胸部。
Turn around, turn around, turn around.
转身，转身，转身。
And my feminist female background kept saying, don't you dare, you pig.
我的女权主义女性背景一直在说，你不敢，你这头猪。
Don't turn around.
不要转身。
And you know, I fought myself for a whole block, and then I turned around and checked her out.
你知道，我奋战了整整一个街区，然后我转身查看了她。
And before, it was cool.
而之前，还是很酷的。
When I would do a poetry reading, I would get up and I would read these poems about, you know, women on the street.
When I would do a poetry reading, I would get up and I would read these poems about, you know, women on the street.
And I was a butch dyke, and that was very, very cutting edge, and that was very sexy and raw.
我是个男人，那是非常非常前卫的，非常性感和原始的。
And now I'm just a jerk.
现在我只是个混蛋。
You know?
你知道？
[BOTH LAUGH] Julie Snyder And then Alex's final question, when they talk-- you know, when Alex is, um--
[两人都笑]朱莉·斯奈德 然后亚历克斯的最后一个问题，当他们说话时——你知道，当亚历克斯，嗯——
I know exactly.
我很清楚。
I know it so well because it's one of my favorite ever posed on our show.
我非常了解它，因为它是我们节目中我最喜欢的姿势之一。
I know.
我知道。
Alex Blumberg Are there other ways that you feel like testosterone has altered the way you feel or perceive?
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg）是否还有其他方式让您感觉睾丸激素改变了您的感觉或感知方式？
Something that happened after I started taking testosterone-- I became interested in science.
我开始服用睾酮后发生的事情——我对科学产生了兴趣。
I was never interested in science before.
我以前对科学从来不感兴趣。
No way.
决不。
Come on, are you serious?
来吧，你是认真的吗？
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
I'm serious.
我是认真的。
I'm serious.
我是认真的。
Alex Blumberg You're just setting us back 100 years, sir.
Alex Blumberg：您简直让我们倒退了 100 年前，先生。
Both Julie and another producer on the radio show, Robyn Semien, surprised me by choosing as one of their favorites this interview that we have never replayed from an episode we have never rerun.
朱莉和广播节目的另一位制作人罗宾·塞米恩都让我感到惊讶，他们选择了这次采访作为他们最喜欢的采访之一，而我们从未重播过我们从未重播过的一集。
This hasn't aired since September 2005.
该节目自 2005 年 9 月起就没有播出过。
This is the show that we did immediately after Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans.
这是我们在卡特里娜飓风袭击新奥尔良后立即制作的节目。
And what they each wanted to play was the same interview from that show.
他们每个人想要播放的都是该节目中的同一个采访。
It was an interview with this woman named Denise Moore.
这是对一位名叫丹尼斯摩尔的女士的采访。
Denise Moore had stayed behind in New Orleans with her mom, who was a nurse at Memorial Hospital.
丹尼斯·摩尔和她的母亲一起留在新奥尔良，她的母亲是纪念医院的护士。
She was essential personnel, so she had to stay.
她是重要人员，所以她必须留下来。
And her mom asked Denise to stay with her, and also her niece and her niece's two-year-old.
她的妈妈让丹妮丝和她的侄女以及她两岁的孩子一起留下来。
And in this interview, Denise just tells me what happened to them over the course of the first few days after the hurricane.
在这次采访中，丹尼斯只是告诉我他们在飓风过后的最初几天里发生了什么事。
Here's Robyn talking about that interview.
罗宾正在谈论那次采访。
She heard this on the radio.
她在广播中听到了这个消息。
She wasn't on staff back then.
She wasn't on staff back then.
The shock to my system that happened, listening to that, was so severe that it's one of those shows where I remember exactly where I was.
The shock to my system that happened, listening to that, was so severe that it's one of those shows where I remember exactly where I was.
And it's everything that you've heard on the news so far up until that point.
这就是迄今为止您在新闻中听到的所有内容。
I mean, this was kind of Katrina, wall-to-wall media coverage about the Superdome and the convention center.
我的意思是，这有点像卡特里娜飓风，媒体对超级圆顶体育场和会议中心进行了铺天盖地的报道。
But just hearing it, I didn't have a way to really let it affect me until I heard one woman's experience, and to let her kind of lay out exactly what was going on.
但只是听到它，我没有办法真正让它影响我，直到我听到了一位女士的经历，并让她准确地阐述了到底发生了什么。
I mean, I don't think I fully realized how desperate I was at the time to have something make sense until I heard this.
我的意思是，直到我听到这个消息之前，我认为我并没有完全意识到我当时是多么渴望得到一些有意义的东西。
I remember when we put that show together, we all knew that there had already been lots of coverage of Katrina everywhere.
I remember when we put that show together, we all knew that there had already been lots of coverage of Katrina everywhere.
And we thought the one thing that we could do was that till then, when you heard from people in New Orleans in the news, it was mostly in tiny little soundbites.
我们认为我们能做的一件事就是，直到那时，当你在新闻中听到新奥尔良人民的消息时，大部分都是微小的片段。
And we thought the one contribution we could make was just let people talk longer.
And we thought the one contribution we could make was just let people talk longer.
You know, it's easier to connect emotionally when you hear more.
你知道，当你听到的越多时，情感上的联系就越容易。
And so Denise is one of the interviews where this happens.
And so Denise is one of the interviews where this happens.
And what happened to Denise after the flood is the hospital where her mom works at, she stays there for a couple days, then it gets shut down.
And what happened to Denise after the flood is the hospital where her mom works at, she stays there for a couple days, then it gets shut down.
And then everyone is ordered to move to the convention center, where they're told that there'll be buses to take them to safety out of the city.
And then everyone is ordered to move to the convention center, where they're told that there'll be buses to take them to safety out of the city.
So they go.
所以他们走了。
And when we arrived, there were people all over the street, under the bridge.
当我们到达时，街上、桥下到处都是人。
And we're like, why are these people on the street?
我们想，为什么这些人会出现在街上？
Why aren't they in the convention center?
他们为什么不在会议中心？
And when we got there, people were saying, you don't want to go in there.
当我们到达那里时，人们说，你不想进去。
Did you go inside at all?
你到底进去了吗？
Denise Moore Not until the next day.
丹尼斯摩尔 直到第二天。
Yeah.
是的。
Denise Moore A sewer.
丹尼斯·摩尔 下水道。
A sewer, literally.
下水道，顾名思义就是下水道。
Stepping in feces, stepping in urine, all over the carpet.
踩着粪便，踩着尿液，地毯上到处都是。
And people were sitting close as they could to the doors, but the smell was overwhelming.
And people were sitting close as they could to the doors, but the smell was overwhelming.
So then what do you do?
那么你该怎么办呢？
Like what's the best you can do?
比如你能做的最好的是什么？
I actually stopped eating the minute we got there.
事实上，我们一到那里我就停止吃饭了。
I wouldn't eat or drink anything.
我不会吃或喝任何东西。
'Cause I figured if you don't put nothing in, nothing's coming out.
'Cause I figured if you don't put nothing in, nothing's coming out.
I was in the Army.
我在军队。
But even at that, I still had to use the bathroom.
But even at that, I still had to use the bathroom.
It was ridiculous.
这太荒谬了。
And where'd you all sleep?
And where'd you all sleep?
Denise Moore We slept on the sidewalk.
丹尼斯·摩尔 我们睡在人行道上。
And then what my mom wanted me to make sure I tell you, what they kept doing the whole time, was tell us to line up for the buses that never came.
然后我妈妈要我确保我告诉你，他们一直在做的事情就是告诉我们排队等候从未来过的公共汽车。
It was like they were doing drills every four hours.
就像他们每四个小时进行一次演习一样。
You all have to line up for the bus.
你们都必须排队乘公共汽车。
And if you bum-rush the bus, they're just going to take off without you, and nobody's going to get to go anywhere.
And if you bum-rush the bus, they're just going to take off without you, and nobody's going to get to go anywhere.
You have to line up.
你必须排队。
You have to be in a straight line.
你必须走一条直线。
We're talking about old people in wheelchairs and women with babies, in lines waiting for buses that you know goddamn well aren't coming.
We're talking about old people in wheelchairs and women with babies, in lines waiting for buses that you know goddamn well aren't coming.
Like they were playing with us.
就像他们在和我们一起玩一样。
And then the story became, they left us here to die.
然后故事变成了，他们把我们留在这里等死。
They're going to kill us.
They're going to kill us.
You mean that's what people were saying to each other?
你的意思是人们互相这么说？
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass And is that what you believed?
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）那是你所相信的吗？
I was almost convinced.
我几乎被说服了。
Ira Glass That basically--
Ira Glass That basically--
'Cause I kept having a vision of them opening that floodgate on us, of my niece and her baby floating away from me, screaming.
'Cause I kept having a vision of them opening that floodgate on us, of my niece and her baby floating away from me, screaming.
And I just knew it.
我才知道。
And then the next morning, I heard from somebody that they actually were going to open that floodgate.
第二天早上，我从某人那里听说他们实际上要打开闸门。
So by the time the rumors started that the National Guard was going to kill us, I almost halfway believed it.
所以当国民警卫队要杀了我们的谣言开始出现时，我几乎半信半疑了。
And so people were saying, basically, they just brought us here.
And so people were saying, basically, they just brought us here.
They're going to leave us here to die?
They're going to leave us here to die?
Yeah.
是的。
That's what we thought.
这就是我们的想法。
The police kept passing us by.
The police kept passing us by.
And the National Guard kept passing us by, with their guns pointed at us.
国民警卫队不断从我们身边经过，他们用枪指着我们。
And because they wouldn't-- when you see a truck full of water and people have been crying for water for a day and a night, and the water truck passes you by?
因为他们不会——当你看到一辆装满水的卡车，人们已经哭了一天一夜，而水车却从你身边经过时？
Just keeps going?
就这样继续下去吗？
How are we supposed to believe these people were here to help us?
我们如何相信这些人是来帮助我们的？
It was almost like they were taunting us.
这几乎就像他们在嘲笑我们。
And then don't forget, they kept lining us up for buses that never showed up.
别忘了，他们一直让我们排队等巴士，但巴士却从未出现。
Yeah.
是的。
We thought they were playing with us.
We thought they were playing with us.
And that best-case scenario.
And that best-case scenario.
And the worst-case scenario, they want us to either kill each other or die.
最坏的情况是，他们希望我们要么互相残杀，要么死去。
[LAUGHS INCREDULOUSLY] Or they were going to kill us.
[难以置信地笑]或者他们会杀了我们。
Why didn't people just walk away?
为什么人们不直接走开？
That's what I don't understand.
这就是我不明白的地方。
Couldn't you just--
你不能只是——
We weren't allowed.
我们不被允许。
The police-- people kept trying to go up the bridge so they could go to Algiers, and they'd be turned away.
警察——人们一直试图走上桥去阿尔及尔，但他们被拒绝了。
And they'd be sent back down.
And they'd be sent back down.
And literally, they would just, like, go a couple streets away and somebody would send them back?
从字面上看，他们只是，就像，离开几条街，有人会把他们送回来？
They'd go up the bridge to go across to the west bank, where it was dry.
他们会爬上桥去西岸，那里的水很干燥。
Right.
正确的。
Denise Moore And lights were on, you know?
丹尼斯·摩尔 灯亮了，你知道吗？
And the National Guard was up there with guns.
国民警卫队拿着枪在那里。
They turned them back with guns.
他们用枪将他们击退。
And the governor gave orders to shoot to kill.
And the governor gave orders to shoot to kill.
You couldn't get through them.
你无法通过他们。
Yeah.
是的。
Denise Moore So people in groups would go up the bridge, trying to get across the river.
丹尼斯·摩尔 于是，人们成群结队地走上桥，试图过河。
People who had family across the river couldn't get across the river.
那些有家人在河对岸的人却无法过河。
They were not letting us out of there.
他们不让我们离开那里。
They wasn't letting nobody in.
他们不让任何人进来。
So we were trapped.
所以我们被困住了。
I can't even express it.
我什至无法表达。
Yeah.
是的。
Denise Moore I guess someday it'll calm down, and I'll be able to just cry like a normal person.
丹尼斯摩尔 我想有一天它会平静下来，我就能像正常人一样哭泣。
But I feel like if I started crying now, I'd never stop.
但我觉得如果我现在开始哭泣，我就永远不会停止。
That was Denise Moore in 2005.
那是 2005 年的丹尼斯·摩尔。
The next producer we have is Nancy Updike.
The next producer we have is Nancy Updike.
Nancy is the only person other than me who's working here now at the show who was actually here at the very beginning of the program.
南希是除了我之外唯一一个在节目中工作并且实际上在节目一开始就在场的人。
She moved to Chicago, and then a week later, we did our first episode.
她搬到了芝加哥，一周后，我们制作了第一集。
And what did you want to hear on today's show?
And what did you want to hear on today's show?
I want to hear John Hodgman's story, from "The Real Story." Do you remember this?
我想听听《真实的故事》中约翰·霍奇曼的故事。你还记得这个吗？
I think about this story all the time because the beginning of it is so beautiful.
我一直在想这个故事，因为它的开头是如此美丽。
It's-- I mean, I think it's one of the best pieces of writing that's ever been on the show.
这是——我的意思是，我认为这是该剧有史以来最好的作品之一。
It's so inviting and funny, and it keeps making these turns.
它是如此诱人和有趣，而且它不断地发生这些转变。
OK, so looking this up on our website, this is Episode 232, February 2003.
好的，在我们的网站上查找，这是 2003 年 2 月的第 232 集。
Let's hear that.
让我们听听吧。
Here is something I'm not quick to admit, even to close friends-- never mind on the radio.
有件事我不会很快承认，即使是对亲密的朋友——更不用说在广播里了。
Every day for the past several years, I have been working on a screenplay.
在过去的几年里，我每天都在写剧本。
This, of course, is shameful on its face, but it gets worse-- believe me.
当然，这从表面上看是可耻的，但情况会变得更糟——相信我。
Working on my screenplay has been very hard, because the story I'm telling is long and complex and important.
创作剧本非常困难，因为我要讲述的故事又长又复杂又重要。
It's also difficult because I'm not actually writing anything down.
这也很困难，因为我实际上并没有写下任何东西。
Until recently, I would only think about it, night after night, lying in bed, rewriting my screenplay in my head.
直到最近，我只会夜复一夜地躺在床上，在脑子里重写剧本。
And as this process tends to make me sleepy, I have actually not gotten very far.
由于这个过程容易让我昏昏欲睡，所以我实际上还没有走多远。
I began my screenplay on May 19, 1999, a date that may resonate with some of you who may already guess at the other main challenge of my project, the one that lends it the extra measure of sad delusion and ultimate futility that accompanies the writing of any screenplay.
我于 1999 年 5 月 19 日开始创作剧本，这一天可能会引起你们中一些人的共鸣，他们可能已经猜到了我的项目的另一个主要挑战，这个挑战给我的项目带来了额外的悲伤幻觉和最终的徒劳，伴随着任何剧本的写作。
And that is that my screenplay has already been written by someone else, and it is called Star Wars , Episode One , The Phantom Menace.
那就是我的剧本已经被别人写好了，叫做《星球大战》、《第一集》、《幽灵的威胁》。
It's perfect.
太完美了。
And then the whole essay, it makes this incredible turn at the end to his mom dying.
然后整篇文章，最后发生了令人难以置信的转折，导致他妈妈去世。
And that's why he's been obsessively rewriting The Phantom Menace in his head, that he's turning away from this terrible thing that's happening.
这就是为什么他一直在脑子里痴迷地重写《幽灵的威胁》，他正在逃避正在发生的这件可怕的事情。
Nancy Updike, talking about John Hodgman's writing.
南希·厄普代克谈论约翰·霍奇曼的写作。
When I sat down in the studio with Sarah Koenig to talk about her favorite moments to play on the show today, her favorites included some of Nancy's writing.
当我和莎拉·科尼格坐在演播室谈论她今天在节目中最喜欢的时刻时，她最喜欢的是南希的一些写作。
And just to introduce Sarah, she's been here at the show for nearly a decade.
简单介绍一下莎拉，她参加展会已经近十年了。
She's reported lots of stories.
She's reported lots of stories.
She's filled in as host now and then, most recently of the "Coincidences" show.
她时不时地担任主持人，最近一次是“巧合”节目的主持人。
And she brought a whole list of favorites into the studio.
她把一整套最喜欢的作品带进了工作室。
And she said some of Nancy's writing has just stayed with her.
她说南希的一些作品一直留在她心里。
Do you remember all that nice writing, and I was listening to, "I'm From the Private Sector and I'm Here to Help," when she went to Iraq.
你还记得那些好文章吗？当她去伊拉克时，我正在听“我来自私营部门，我是来帮忙的”。
There's a passage about-- are you going to talk about the passage about that one guy who's leading the--
有一段话是关于——你要谈谈关于那个领导着——的人的一段话吗？
Hank.
汉克。
Ira Glass Hank.
艾拉·格拉斯·汉克.
Where she describes Hank.
Where she describes Hank.
Yeah, that whole opening thing with Hank, she has this light touch, and it's funny.
是的，汉克的整个开场，她有一种轻松的感觉，这很有趣。
And you immediately feel like, oh, I know who this guy is.
你立刻就会觉得，哦，我知道这个人是谁。
So this is show number 266.
So this is show number 266.
It's from, I think, 2005.
我想是2005年的。
2004, maybe.
2004年，也许吧。
It's 2004.
现在是 2004 年。
It's June 2004.
现在是 2004 年 6 月。
And it's pretty early in the coverage of the private contractors in Iraq.
对伊拉克私人承包商的报道还处于早期阶段。
Right.
正确的。
And one of the companies she focused on was this security company called Custer Battles.
而她重点关注的公司之一就是这家名为 Custer Battles 的安全公司。
And it turned out that they were kind of in some trouble.
事实证明他们遇到了一些麻烦。
And so she just hangs out with Hank for a while.
所以她只是和汉克一起出去玩了一段时间。
Hank is the man who was brought in to clean up Custer Battles' PSD operation.
汉克是被请来清理卡斯特战役 PSD 行动的人。
Hank has a vision for the kind of men he wants working for him.
汉克对他希望为他工作的人有一个愿景。
Steely-eyed, flat-bellied professionals.
眼神坚毅，腹平的专业人士。
It's possible Hank came up with this description by looking in the mirror.
汉克可能是通过照镜子想出这个描述的。
He's a 49-year-old man with small blue eyes, a former paratrooper and ranger.
他是一位 49 岁的男子，有一双蓝色的小眼睛，曾是一名伞兵和护林员。
The son of a decorated soldier.
一名受过勋章的士兵的儿子。
Married to the daughter of a soldier.
娶了一名军人的女儿。
Father of two soldiers, one of whom was in Iraq and is now in Afghanistan on a mission he can't talk about.
两名士兵的父亲，其中一名士兵曾在伊拉克，现在正在阿富汗执行一项他无法谈论的任务。
Hank is cryptic.
汉克很神秘。
He doesn't want me to use his last name.
他不想让我使用他的姓氏。
He won't even tell me what rank he achieved.
他甚至不告诉我他获得了什么排名。
I looked it up later-- lieutenant colonel.
我后来查了一下——中校。
He's done private security work overseas before.
他以前在海外做过私人保安工作。
He won't give details, of course.
当然，他不会透露细节。
But he will-- and this is the thing about Hank-- he will poke fun at it.
但他会——这就是汉克的特点——他会取笑它。
So you gotta get the look, the security guy look.
所以你必须看看，保安人员的样子。
Serious, I'm dead serious about this business.
说真的，我对这件事非常认真。
I'm steely-eyed and I'm scanning the horizon constantly.
我目光坚定，不断扫视地平线。
And usually when you go to-- like if I go to Africa or someplace like that, and you're on some kind of security mission, it takes you about two seconds to get off the plane, look around, and say, oh, there's somebody else on a mission.
通常，当你去——比如我去非洲或类似的地方，你正在执行某种安全任务时，你需要大约两秒钟的时间才能下飞机，环顾四周，然后说，哦，还有其他人在执行任务。
And you kind of sidle up to them, and you go, SAS?
然后你就侧身靠近他们，然后就走，SAS？
And they nod, and then they go, Rangers?
他们点点头，然后就走了，流浪者队？
And you go-- you kind of nod.
然后你就走了——你点点头。
And then finally you ask, who are you working for?
最后你问，你为谁工作？
Of course, he can't tell.
当然，他也说不出来。
He asks you, and you can't tell.
他问你，你也说不出来。
And then you-- [LAUGHS] And then you wander off, you see?
然后你——[笑]然后你就走开了，你明白吗？
But you had that initial, like dogs sniffing each other, you do.
但你有最初的感觉，就像狗互相嗅闻一样，你确实如此。
But it's very easy to pick the guys out.
但要挑选出这些人是很容易的。
They all got the look.
他们都明白了。
So he wants his PSD guys to have the look.
所以他希望他的 PSD 人员能够看看。
Steely-eyed, flat-bellied professionals.
眼神坚毅，腹平的专业人士。
And he walks around doing that look.
他四处走动，做出那种表情。
But he also knows it's all a bit of a put-on.
但他也知道这有点装腔作势。
A man dance, as he calls it.
一个男人在跳舞，正如他所说的那样。
And with tens of thousands of American military and ex-military and private military in Iraq right now, it's very possible that we are standing in the middle of the largest man dance on the planet.
目前，伊拉克有数以万计的美国军人、退役军人和私人军人，我们很可能正站在地球上最大的男人舞会中央。
[MUSIC PLAYING] Ira Glass OK, so what else you got?
[音乐播放] Ira Glass 好的，那么你还有什么？
I have to say, this story, the one I'm going to pick right now, is the one, sort of, if people don't know the show, this is the one where I'm like, just listen to this one.
我不得不说，这个故事，我现在要选择的故事，是一个，如果人们不知道这个节目，这就是我喜欢的故事，只要听这个就可以了。
It's from 2007.
这是2007年的事。
It's "Duty Calls." It's Josh Bearman's story about his family.
这是“使命召唤”。这是乔什·贝尔曼 (Josh Bearman) 关于他家人的故事。
Oh yeah, that's a really beautiful story.
哦，是的，这真是一个美丽的故事。
And it's so deftly done, in this way where if you really think about what the story's about-- it's like in someone else's hands, it could just be this cliche of like, oh, you know, my mom's an alcoholic and my brother's a screw-up.
它做得非常巧妙，如果你真正思考这个故事的内容——就像在别人手中一样，它可能只是这样的陈词滥调，哦，你知道，我妈妈是个酒鬼，我哥哥是个搞砸的人。
And all the cliches that could go along with that.
以及与之相关的所有陈词滥调。
And you know who these people are.
你知道这些人是谁。
And then you listen to his and you realize, like, no, you don't know.
然后你听他的，你意识到，不，你不知道。
And it's so compelling.
它是如此引人注目。
And everyone in it, it turns out to be so likable, you know?
里面的每个人都非常可爱，你知道吗？
You sort of-- and that's, I feel like, in a way, the surprise of the story, which is also super raw in parts.
在某种程度上，我觉得这个故事的惊喜，部分内容也非常原始。
Which part should we play?
我们应该扮演哪个部分？
Sarah Koenig I don't know.
莎拉·柯尼格 我不知道。
The scene that really got me is when he talks to his-- it's a conversation between Josh and his mom.
真正吸引我的场景是当他和他的孩子说话时——这是乔什和他妈妈之间的对话。
And it starts at 19:07.
19点07分开始。
Are you on the thing?
你有事吗？
Mm-hm.
嗯嗯。
Sarah Koenig If you start it at 19:07, where they just have this conversation, and so much is happening in the course of this conversation, where like, he's sort of angry and she gets kind of defensive.
莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig）：如果你从 19:07 开始，他们刚刚进行了这次对话，在这次对话过程中发生了很多事情，比如，他有点生气，而她有点防御。
And then she sort of says this really honest thing that makes you understand how she's been feeling all this time.
然后她说了一些非常诚实的话，让你明白她一直以来的感受。
Yeah, OK, so this is episode 334, from June of 2007.
是的，好的，这是 2007 年 6 月的第 334 集。
Take, for example, the hurricane that hit Florida months before the paramedics came for my mom.
以飓风袭击佛罗里达州为例，几个月后医护人员才来救我妈妈。
As the Category 5 storm was making landfall, David decided to go for a drive.
当五级风暴即将登陆时，大卫决定开车去兜风。
He was pulled over by the cops, which wasn't that surprising since the car had no registration, no insurance, no working taillights, and a cracked windshield.
他被警察拦下，这并不奇怪，因为这辆车没有登记，没有保险，尾灯不亮，挡风玻璃也破裂了。
David, who had no license-- and maybe had taken some pills to boot-- had been pulled over twice already for having that car on the road.
大卫没有驾照——也许还服用了一些药物——已经因为那辆车上路而被拦下两次了。
He was thrown in jail for a week, and my mother was left all alone.
他被关进监狱一个星期，只剩下我母亲一个人。
I mean, I was sitting here in total darkness.
我的意思是，我坐在完全黑暗的环境中。
I mean, there weren't even any streetlights on.
我的意思是，连路灯都没有亮。
You know, water's falling down.
你知道，水正在往下掉。
Everything was so chaotic.
一切都是那么混乱。
And then, of course, I started drinking out of control, and that was, you know-- it just started out saying, I just want a little relief from this insanity, and it made me even more insane.
然后，当然，我开始失控地喝酒，那是，你知道的——它刚开始说，我只是想从这种疯狂中得到一点解脱，这让我更加疯狂。
How come you didn't call me during that whole period?
怎么这段时间你都没有给我打电话？
Maybe because I really didn't know what to say, Josh.
也许是因为我真的不知道该说什么，乔什。
Well, I wish I'd have known to come down.
好吧，我希望我早知道要下来。
I mean, that's-- you know, and then especially as it got worse, I mean, I wish somebody had called, and--
我的意思是，那是——你知道，尤其是当情况变得更糟时，我的意思是，我希望有人打电话过来，而且——
Yeah, I know.
是的，我知道。
John Bearman Ethan or I could have come out.
约翰·贝尔曼·伊森或者我本来可以出来的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, I understand that, Josh.
是的，我明白，乔什。
But it's just, like-- [SIGHS]
但这只是，就像——[叹气]
And I'm not-- I wasn't saying that to make you feel guilty about not calling me.
我这么说并不是为了让你因为没有给我打电话而感到内疚。
I was just--
我只是——
(TEARFULLY) No, it's hard to explain.
（泪流满面）不，这很难解释。
It's just, like, you know, you just don't want to intrude into your and Ethan's life and say, one more time, one more time, one more time.
只是，你知道，你只是不想闯入你和伊森的生活并说，再一次，再一次，再一次。
Well, I wouldn't have minded.
好吧，我不会介意的。
Josh's Mother Well, I didn't know about it.
乔什的母亲 好吧，我不知道这件事。
I would rather have done that than wind up down here for four months.
我宁愿这样做，也不愿在这里待四个月。
Yeah, I know that.
是的，我知道。
It's part of the whole cycle, is that you don't-- you don't want to tell anybody else, because when you tell somebody else, then you have to-- you're telling yourself.
这是整个循环的一部分，你不想告诉别人，因为当你告诉别人时，你就必须告诉自己。
Which is the last thing you want to do.
这是你最不想做的事情。
Isn't that good?
这不是很好吗？
Ira Glass Yeah.
艾拉·格拉斯 是的。
OK, so what else you got?
好吧，那你还有什么？
So there's one-- I don't know if it's too weirdly self-referential or sycophantic or something.
所以有一个——我不知道这是不是太奇怪的自我指涉或阿谀奉承之类的。
But there's this really nice moment of you and Tami Sagher that I came across.
但我遇到了你和塔米·萨格尔的这个非常美好的时刻。
It's not one that's in my pantheon at all, but just as I was looking back at old stories, I was like, oh, what's this one?
这根本不是我的万神殿里的一个，但当我回顾旧故事时，我就想，哦，这是什么？
And I listened back.
我也听了回去。
And I realized some of the things I like best on the show are when you're just interviewing someone, and you get a little off-topic, and suddenly something really revealing happens.
我意识到我在节目中最喜欢的一些事情是当你只是采访某人时，你有点偏离主题，突然发生了一些真正有启发性的事情。
I feel like it happens kind of a lot when you're interviewing people.
我觉得当你采访别人时，这种情况经常发生。
And I don't know.
我不知道。
You say stuff in interviews that I find really surprising.
你在采访中说的话让我感到非常惊讶。
And so anyway, there's this nice moment in-- I think it's show 314.
所以无论如何，有一个美好的时刻——我认为是第 314 集。
It's a show called "It's Never Over." And it's the last act.
这是一个名为“永远不会结束”的节目。这是最后一幕。
And it's just this interview with Tami Sagher about this joke that she'd thought up like four years earlier and never deployed, because it was a topical joke about Ralph Nader.
塔米·萨格尔 (Tami Sagher) 接受采访时谈到了这个笑话，她四年前就想到了这个笑话，但从未付诸实践，因为这是一个关于拉尔夫·纳德 (Ralph Nader) 的热门笑话。
And then this opportunity comes for her to deploy this joke.
这时她就有机会开这个玩笑了。
Tami Sagher, I should say, is a comedy writer, and she was deploying this joke in a room full of writers at her brand new job.
我应该说，塔米·萨格尔是一位喜剧作家，她在她全新的工作中在一个满是作家的房间里讲述了这个笑话。
And she just nails it, and everyone thinks it's this off-the-cuff hilarious comment, not knowing that she'd been saving it up for all this time.
她只是把它钉牢了，每个人都认为这是一个即兴搞笑的评论，却不知道她一直在保存它。
And it, like, gets teed up for her perfectly, and she just, like, lets it off really casually, and everybody laughs.
它，就像，为她完美地做好了准备，而她只是，就像，非常随意地释放它，每个人都笑了。
And there's this moment right after that where the anecdote has been told.
在那之后的这一刻，轶事被讲述了。
She has the slightly larger thought, like you'd think, done.
她已经完成了稍微大一点的想法，就像你想的那样。
And then it keeps going, and it's good.
然后就一直这样下去，就很好了。
And that's at-- I don't know if you want to play it, but that's at 50:22 of that show.
那是在——我不知道你是否想播放它，但那是在该节目的 50:22 处。
Hold on.
坚持，稍等。
Ira Glass And so are you done?
Ira Glass 那么你完成了吗？
Are you in?
你在吗？
Is that it?
是这样吗？
Like you used that joke to kind of get you over the hump, and now is it through?
就像你用那个笑话来帮助你渡过难关一样，现在已经过去了吗？
Um, I felt like I'm more in, yeah.
嗯，我觉得我更投入了，是的。
I don't know that I'll ever feel like I'm in with everybody.
我不知道我是否会感觉自己和每个人在一起。
[LAUGHS] But no, I have felt like I'm more in.
[笑]但不，我觉得我更投入了。
I have felt a marked difference.
我感觉到了明显的不同。
I mean, do you ever feel like you're totally in with anybody?
我的意思是，你有没有感觉自己和某人完全融为一体？
Dude, I'm married to somebody who I feel like I'm constantly in a situation of having-- I feel like-- and she doesn't feel this way, but I totally feel like every day I have to prove myself anew.
伙计，我嫁给了一个我觉得我一直处于这样的境地的人——我觉得——而她没有这种感觉，但我完全觉得我每天都必须重新证明自己。
Really?
真的吗？
Well, here's one more thing, though, that is kind of sucky about it, though, is by constantly checking in with what the other person's opinion of you is, you're not just being with that person.
好吧，还有一件事，虽然有点糟糕，但不断检查别人对你的看法，你不只是和那个人在一起。
There's a level of removal there that is sad.
那里有一定程度的去除，这是令人悲伤的。
Totally.
完全。
That's totally my personality.
这完全就是我的个性。
For me, I think that something went wrong when I was a kid, where I think that other people, they just accept that they're in.
对我来说，我认为当我还是个孩子的时候，出了一些问题，我认为其他人只是接受了他们的处境。
They accept that this other person likes them, and they don't have to keep proving themself.
他们接受这个人喜欢他们，并且他们不需要不断证明自己。
Whereas for me, it's entirely temporal.
而对我来说，这完全是暂时的。
I'm constantly judging the whole thing moment by moment.
我时时刻刻都在不断地评判整件事。
And it could always fall apart.
而且它总是可能崩溃。
For me, it never ends.
对我来说，它永远不会结束。
I remember when I was a kid, and I think I was probably like four?
我记得当我还是个孩子的时候，我想我大概只有四岁吧？
So wait, so that thing that I say, that's the thing?
等等，所以我说的就是这个？
That's the thing.
就是这样。
Ira Glass Yeah.
艾拉·格拉斯 是的。
God, I totally did not remember saying that until just now.
天啊，直到现在我才完全记得自己说过这句话。
Yeah, that's so true of me.
是的，我就是这样。
It's so personal.
这太个人化了。
And I feel like it's really-- I don't know.
我觉得这真的——我不知道。
Like I've known you for 10 years now, right?
好像我已经认识你十年了，对吧？
And I heard you say that.
我听到你这么说。
I was like, oh, right.
我当时想，哦，对了。
That's right.
这是正确的。
Because I was like, I know there's a lot of times in interviews where I've just been listening in, and you'll reveal this thing, and I'm always just like, that's ballsy.
因为我当时想，我知道很多时候我只是在听采访，然后你就会透露这件事，我总是觉得，这太大胆了。
To me that's just so obvious that you would do that if you have something like that to do, because it's good tape.
对我来说，这很明显，如果你有类似的事情要做，你就会这样做，因为它是很好的磁带。
Like your job is to make good tape.
就像你的工作就是制作好的磁带一样。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
Like that's our job, is to make good tape.
就像我们的工作一样，就是制作优质的磁带。
I know, but I feel like that's the thing that's different, right?
我知道，但我觉得这是不一样的，对吧？
Like you're willing to kind of exploit anything you've got in there.
就像你愿意利用你拥有的一切一样。
And I think a lot of people, for a lot of people, that stuff is just off-limits.
我认为对于很多人来说，这些东西都是禁区。
[MUSIC PLAYING] Ira Glass Sarah Koenig.
[音乐播放] Ira Glass Sarah Koenig。
Coming up, me and Bruce Banner, so similar.
接下来，我和布鲁斯·班纳，非常相似。
And more favorites from the past 499 episodes.
还有过去 499 集中的更多热门剧集。
That's in a minute.
就在一分钟之内。
From Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, saying this now for the 500th time, when our program continues.
来自芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台，当我们的节目继续进行时，这是第 500 次这样说。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
It is our 500th episode.
这是我们的第 500 集。
We're spending it by having the producers of the program come into the studio and pick their favorite moments from the last 17 and 1/2 years of shows.
我们让节目制作人走进演播室，从过去 17 又 1/2 年的节目中挑选他们最喜欢的时刻。
God, it sounds like so many.
天哪，听起来有很多。
Well, four of the producers of the show, when they came in to talk about the favorites, they said they thought of all the possible stories they could play today, the story that meant the most to them was the one when they first heard our show or first noticed it doing something different from other radio shows.
好吧，该节目的四位制作人，当他们进来谈论最喜欢的节目时，他们说他们想到了今天可以播放的所有可能的故事，对他们来说最重要的故事是他们第一次听到我们的节目或第一次注意到它做了与其他广播节目不同的事情时的故事。
For me, it was sort of like, what-- what is this thing?
对我来说，这有点像，这是什么东西？
That's Jonathan Goldstein.
那是乔纳森·戈德斯坦。
He was a producer on the show for a few years, and he's continued to do stories for us since.
他担任该节目几年的制片人，此后他继续为我们创作故事。
Longtime listeners may remember the story of the phone message, "You and the Little Mermaid can go eff yourselves." Anyway, he's now the host of the Public Radio show and podcast called WireTap.
老听众可能还记得电话留言的故事：“你和小美人鱼可以自己走了。”不管怎样，他现在是公共广播节目和播客 WireTap 的主持人。
And he said this about his first time hearing our show.
他是这么说的，这是他第一次听我们的节目。
There was a particular kind of mood to it, and it just-- it really, it sucked me in.
它有一种特殊的情绪，它真的——它真的把我吸引住了。
You know which one I'm talking about?
你知道我在说哪一个吗？
No, I don't.
不，我不。
Jonathan Goldstein It's the top, the prologue, to "The Cruelty of Children."
乔纳森·戈尔茨坦 这是《儿童的残酷》的顶部和序言。
Oh, that's so interesting.
哦，那太有趣了。
No one has mentioned that one at all, and that's totally a favorite of mine.
根本没有人提到过这一点，而这完全是我的最爱。
Really?
真的吗？
Well, OK, so I haven't heard it in years.
嗯，好吧，所以我已经好几年没听过它了。
And so I was surprised by a couple things.
因此，有几件事让我感到惊讶。
One, that it was two minutes long.
第一，它有两分钟长。
Yeah.
是的。
And it's so funny, because in my memory, it was like half the show or something, which is insane.
这很有趣，因为在我的记忆中，这就像演出的一半或其他什么，这太疯狂了。
And you come on and you're saying, I was talking to a first-grader about libraries--
你来吧，你说，我正在和一个一年级学生谈论图书馆——
I was talking to a first-grader about libraries.
我正在和一个一年级学生谈论图书馆。
Then I suddenly found myself talking about bullies.
然后我突然发现自己在谈论恶霸。
And I suddenly found myself talking about bullies.
我突然发现自己在谈论恶霸。
That's the thing about the idea of bullies.
这就是欺凌者的想法。
The idea is so powerful that it can derail any conversation and pull it towards its own orbit.
这个想法是如此强大，以至于它可以使任何谈话脱轨，并将其拉向自己的轨道。
Here's how it happened.
事情是这样发生的。
We were on a school bus.
我们当时在校车上。
I was asking the first-grader what kinds of books he takes out from the library.
我问一年级学生他从图书馆拿出了哪些类型的书。
Like I couldn't even wrap my head around it.
就像我什至无法接受它一样。
Like, I didn't even understand.
就好像，我根本没听懂。
Like who is this guy?
比如这个人是谁？
Why is he talking to a first-grader in the first place?
他为什么要和一个一年级的学生说话？
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
Yeah.
是的。
Jonathan Goldstein Like, why are you-- like were you out for coffee?
乔纳森·戈德斯坦 就像，你为什么——就像你出去喝咖啡一样？
Are there six-year-olds in your social circle?
你的社交圈子里有六岁的孩子吗？
And because it was like my first glimpse into the world of the show, my sense of it was, here's this guy who's this kind of like wandering America, like the Incredible Hulk or something.
因为这就像我第一次瞥见这部剧的世界，我的感觉是，这个人就像是在美国流浪，就像绿巨人之类的。
Like with his jacket slung over his shoulder down a highway with his microphone out, looking for company and taking it wherever he can get it.
就像他把夹克挂在肩上，在高速公路上挂着麦克风，寻找陪伴，并带到任何他能找到的地方。
Whether it's in a roadside coffee shop or on a school bus talking to a six-year-old.
无论是在路边的咖啡店，还是在校车上与六岁的孩子交谈。
And that was all it took.
仅此而已。
Suddenly, he launches into this big thing.
突然，他开始涉足这件大事。
This kid in our class, he's a bully and he takes out bully books.
我们班的这个孩子，他是一个恶霸，他拿出恶霸书。
Takes out bully ones.
消灭恶霸。
They teach you how to be meaner, to push people around and stuff.
他们教你如何变得更刻薄，如何左右别人等等。
There are books to teach you how to be mean?
有书可以教你如何变得刻薄吗？
Yeah.
是的。
And nice.
很好。
There's this one book that's called Bullies Are Made for Pushing Around , and Bullies Make All the Rules .
有这样一本书，叫做《恶霸是为欺凌而生》和《恶霸制定了所有规则》。
And they be picking on nice kids.
他们会挑选好孩子。
As far as I was able to determine later, talking with parents and teachers and consulting with books in print, there is no book-- [LAUGHS] There is no real book that corresponds to the book this first-grader thinks he saw the bully read.
据我后来与家长和老师交谈以及查阅印刷书籍后确定，没有一本书——[笑]没有一本真正的书与这个一年级学生认为他看到恶霸读过的书相对应。
And you know, it's a shame.
你知道，这是一种耻辱。
It was such a comforting thought.
这是一个令人欣慰的想法。
Why are people bullies?
为什么人们会欺负人？
Why are they so mean?
他们为什么这么刻薄？
Why do they push you sometimes, and take your change, and say nasty things?
为什么他们有时会逼迫你，拿走你的零钱，还说一些难听的话？
Maybe they're just getting it from a book.
也许他们只是从书上得到的。
I'm surprised-- are you sure that that's what the book was about?
我很惊讶——你确定这就是这本书的内容吗？
I can't believe somebody would write a book saying here's how to be mean to other people.
我不敢相信有人会写一本书说如何对其他人刻薄。
Well, maybe the person who wrote is was probably a bully himself.
好吧，也许写这封信的人本身就是一个恶霸。
[MUSIC PLAYING] Act 6 Ira Glass Next up is Brian Reed.
[音乐播放] 第 6 幕 Ira Glass 接下来是 Brian Reed。
Brian is one of our newest staffers.
布莱恩是我们最新的员工之一。
He was an intern here.
他是这里的实习生。
He's been a producer for a year and a half.
他担任制片人已经一年半了。
Regular listeners may remember the story that he produced about Guatemala last year, and that guy who survived a massacre at a place called Dos Erres.
普通听众可能还记得他去年制作的有关危地马拉的故事，以及那个在多斯埃雷斯（Dos Erres）的大屠杀中幸存下来的人。
Anyway, the story that Brian wanted to play today was also the first story that he remembers hearing, though he did not hear this story on the radio.
不管怎样，布莱恩今天要播放的故事也是他记得听到的第一个故事，尽管他没有在广播中听到这个故事。
When he was in college, I came and spoke, and I played this story from the stage.
当他上大学时，我来演讲，并在舞台上播放了这个故事。
Yeah, and I think-- I mean, I knew what the show was, because clearly I went to see you.
是的，我想——我的意思是，我知道演出是什么，因为显然我是来看你的。
But I don't remember ever hearing the show before that.
但我不记得之前听过这个节目。
I don't have a memory of it.
我对此没有记忆。
Wow.
哇。
Brian Reed Yeah.
布莱恩·里德 是的。
And it's this little story that Jack Hitt told on the "Kid Logic" episode.
这就是杰克·希特在“逻辑小子”一集中讲述的这个小故事。
Well, it all began at Christmas two years ago, when my daughter was four years old.
好吧，这一切都始于两年前的圣诞节，当时我女儿四岁。
And it was the first time she had ever asked about, what did this holiday mean?
她第一次问，这个节日意味着什么？
And so I explained to her that this was celebrating the birth of Jesus.
所以我向她解释说这是庆祝耶稣的诞生。
And she wanted to know more about that.
她想了解更多。
And we went out and bought a kid's Bible and had these readings at night.
我们出去买了一本儿童圣经，并在晚上阅读这些内容。
She loved them.
她爱他们。
Wanted to know everything about Jesus.
想要了解关于耶稣的一切。
So we read a lot about his birth and about his teaching.
所以我们读了很多关于他的出生和他的教学的内容。
And she would ask constantly what that phrase was.
她会不断地问那句话是什么。
And I would explain to her that it was "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Then we would talk about those old words and what that all meant, you know?
我会向她解释，那就是“己所不欲，勿施于人”。然后我们会谈论那些古老的词语以及它们的含义，你知道吗？
And then one day, we were driving past a big church, and out front was an enormous crucifix.
然后有一天，我们开车经过一座大教堂，前面有一个巨大的十字架。
She said, who is that?
她说，那是谁？
And I guess I'd never really told that part of the story.
我想我从来没有真正讲过这部分故事。
So I had to sort of-- yeah, oh, that's Jesus.
所以我必须——是的，哦，那是耶稣。
And I forgot to tell you the ending, yeah.
我忘了告诉你结局了，是的。
Well, you know, he ran afoul of the Roman government.
嗯，你知道，他与罗马政府发生了冲突。
This message that he had was so radical and unnerving to the prevailing authorities of the time that they had to kill him.
他所传达的信息对于当时的当权者来说是如此激进和令人不安，以至于他们不得不杀死他。
They came to the conclusion that he would have to die.
他们得出的结论是他必须死。
That message was too troublesome.
那个消息太麻烦了。
It was about a month later after that Christmas, we'd gone through the whole story of what Christmas meant.
圣诞节过后大约一个月，我们才了解了圣诞节的全部意义。
And it was mid-January, and her preschool celebrates the same holidays as the local schools.
那是一月中旬，她的幼儿园和当地学校庆祝同样的假期。
So Martin Luther King Day was off.
于是马丁·路德·金纪念日就结束了。
And so I knocked off work that day and I decided we'd play, and I'd take her out to lunch.
所以那天我下班了，我决定我们去玩，然后我带她出去吃午饭。
And we were sitting in there, and right on the table where we happened to plop down, was the Arts section of the local newspaper.
我们坐在那儿，就在我们碰巧坐下的桌子上，是当地报纸的艺术版。
And there, big as life, was a huge drawing by, like, a 10-year-old kid from the local schools of Martin Luther King.
那里有一幅巨大的画作，就像一个来自马丁·路德·金当地学校的 10 岁孩子一样。
And she said, who's that?
她说，那是谁？
And I said, well, as it happens, that's Martin Luther King.
我说，好吧，碰巧那是马丁·路德·金。
And he's why you're not in school today, because we're celebrating his birthday.
他就是你今天没去学校的原因，因为我们正在庆祝他的生日。
This is the day we celebrate his life.
这是我们庆祝他一生的日子。
And she said, so who was he?
她说，那他是谁？
I said, well, he was a preacher.
我说，好吧，他是一名传教士。
And she looks up at me and goes, (EXCITEDLY) for Jesus?
她抬头看着我，（兴奋地）走向耶稣？
And I said, yeah, yeah, actually he was.
我说，是的，是的，实际上他是。
But there was another thing that he was really famous for, which is that he had a message.
但他还有另一件事真正出名，那就是他有一个信息。
And you're trying to say this to a four-year-old.
你正试图对一个四岁的孩子说这句话。
It's very-- this is the first time they ever hear anything, so you just very careful about how you phrase everything.
这是他们第一次听到任何事情，所以你要非常小心地表达一切。
So I said, you know, well, yeah, he was a preacher, and he had a message.
所以我说，你知道，嗯，是的，他是一位传教士，他有一个信息。
And she said, what was his message?
她说，他的信息是什么？
And I said, well, he said that you should treat everybody the same, no matter what they look like.
我说，好吧，他说你应该一视同仁地对待每个人，无论他们长什么样。
And she thought about that for a minute.
她想了一会儿。
And she said, well, that's what Jesus said.
她说，好吧，耶稣就是这么说的。
And I said, yeah, I guess it is.
我说，是的，我想是的。
I never thought of it that way, but yeah.
我从来没有这样想过，但是是的。
And that is sort of like "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." And she thought for a minute and looked up at me and said, did they kill him too?
这有点像“己所不欲，勿施于人”。她想了一会儿，抬头看着我说，他们也杀了他吗？
[MUSIC PLAYING] Act 7 Ira Glass Jack Hitt.
[音乐播放] 第 7 幕 Ira Glass Jack Hitt。
Alex Blumberg has been with our program on and off since 1997.
Alex Blumberg 自 1997 年以来一直断断续续地参与我们的项目。
He's one of the co-creators of Planet Money , the podcast and the website, which is a co-production of our show and NPR News.
他是 Planet Money、播客和网站的联合创始人之一，该网站是我们的节目和 NPR 新闻的联合制作。
He created a [INAUDIBLE] of money with Adam Davidson, and Alex picked, as his pick for today, one of Adam's very first radio stories from 15 years ago.
他与 Adam Davidson 一起创造了一笔[听不清]的资金，Alex 选择了 Adam 15 年前的第一个广播故事作为他今天的选择。
It was on the show that we had called "How To." And the premise was that there's this group of people who calculate how much a human life is worth.
我们在节目中称之为“How To”。前提是有一群人在计算人命的价值。
And they're insurance adjusters.
他们是保险理算员。
And Adam Davidson--
还有亚当·戴维森——
And this is so if somebody dies in an accident or something, they can tell you how much you can get for that person's life?
因此，如果有人因事故或其他原因死亡，他们可以告诉您可以为该人的生命获得多少赔偿？
Yeah, for like a wrongful death suit.
是的，就像过失致人死亡诉讼一样。
And insurance adjusters are sort of very familiar with this.
保险理赔员对此非常熟悉。
And so Adam Davidson goes and basically asks the question, how much is my life worth now, and what could I do to make my life worth more if I wanted to?
因此，亚当·戴维森（Adam Davidson）基本上问了一个问题：我的生命现在值多少钱？如果我愿意的话，我可以做些什么来让我的生命更有价值？
Right, which is good premise.
没错，这是一个很好的前提。
Like the premise is great.
就像前提很棒一样。
And that's exactly the type of premise that you would go out, and then it would just be quashed by reality.
这正是你走出去的前提，然后它就会被现实推翻。
And you know, there's this thing that happens were you sort of say, like, here's what I think the story is going to be.
你知道，如果你说，这就是我认为故事会是这样的，就会发生这样的事情。
And then what always happens is you go out, and you're like, aah, the actual story is way more complicated.
然后经常发生的事情是，当你出去时，你会想，啊，实际的故事要复杂得多。
Yeah, and it's not as good.
是的，而且没那么好。
It doesn't--
它不——
Not as good, and it's not as funny or outrageous or whatever you're thinking it will be.
没有那么好，也没有那么有趣或令人震惊，或者无论你想它是什么。
It wasn't this.
不是这个。
And then at some point, the words "actuarial tables" are going to mentioned, and then you're screwed.
然后在某个时候，“精算表”这个词就会被提及，然后你就完蛋了。
No, no, no, yeah, and then people turn off the radio when they hear that.
不，不，不，是的，然后人们听到这个就关掉收音机。
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正确。
And this is the story where it's actually the opposite.
而这个故事实际上恰恰相反。
Like you think it's going to be good, and then what actually happens is even better.
就像你认为这会很好，然后实际发生的事情会更好。
OK, so I'm just bringing this up on the computer.
好的，所以我只是在计算机上提出这个问题。
This to show number 94 from 1998.
这显示 1998 年的第 94 号。
It's like the first three minutes of it.
就像它的前三分钟一样。
When I was seven, my mom told me about a guy who died because his car blew up.
当我七岁的时候，我妈妈告诉我一个人因为汽车爆炸而死的故事。
It was the manufacturer's fault, and the man's relatives sued and got about $300,000.
这是制造商的错，该男子的亲属提起诉讼并获得了大约 30 万美元。
I remember wondering about that number.
我记得我对这个数字感到好奇。
I remember thinking, if you were going to assign a number to human life, it would have to be huge, at least a million.
我记得我当时想，如果你要为人类的生命指定一个数字，那么这个数字必须很大，至少是一百万。
To my seven-year-old mind, a million seemed like the start of the really big numbers.
对于我七岁的孩子来说，一百万似乎是真正大数字的开始。
The other day, I wanted to find out how much my life was worth, so I want to talk to this guy, George Karas, an adjuster in Merrillville, Indiana.
有一天，我想知道我的生命值多少钱，所以我想和这个人谈谈，乔治卡拉斯，印第安纳州梅里维尔的一名理算员。
He looked me over, asked me my stats-- age, job, marital status.
他打量了我，询问我的统计数据——年龄、工作、婚姻状况。
Right now, today, I will pay you $35,000.
现在，今天，我将付给你 35,000 美元。
For my death?
为了我的死？
George Karas For your death.
乔治·卡拉斯 为了你的死。
Total.
全部的。
That's crazy.
太疯狂了。
I'm-- I'm worth more than--
我——我的价值比——
What do you think it's worth?
你觉得它值多少钱？
Alex Blumberg And then it just gets better, because listen, they fight now about it.
Alex Blumberg 然后事情就变得更好了，因为听着，他们现在为此而吵架。
My life, worth less than half a second of one commercial on Seinfeld .
我的生命，不及《宋飞正传》广告中的半秒。
George explains it this way.
乔治是这样解释的。
I'm single, got no dependents, and as far as he's concerned, no one would be all that affected by my death.
我单身，没有家属，对他来说，我的死不会对任何人造成太大影响。
I argued with him, pointed out my parents need me.
我和他争论，指出我的父母需要我。
I make them laugh.
我让他们发笑。
I tease them in a way that nobody else can.
我以其他人无法做到的方式取笑他们。
How often do they see you?
他们多久见一次？
Adam Davidson My mom sees me once a month, my dad, every three months.
亚当·戴维森 我妈妈每个月见我一次，我爸爸每三个月见我一次。
Once a month and every three months.
每月一次和每三个月一次。
How close are you to them?
你离他们有多近？
Do you take them out for dinner?
你带他们出去吃饭吗？
Do you always meet them at family holidays?
你总是在家庭度假时见到他们吗？
Do you sit around the fireplace with them at night and roast marshmallows?
晚上你会和他们一起坐在壁炉旁烤棉花糖吗？
Those things are worth money?
那些东西值钱吗？
George Karas Absolutely.
乔治·卡拉斯 绝对的。
Loss of love and affection.
失去爱和感情。
In your case, there doesn't appear to be that strong an emotional relationship.
就你而言，似乎没有那么强烈的情感关系。
You see your dad once every three months.
你每三个月见你爸爸一次。
Does he send you a picture in between so you remember what he looks like?
他是否会在中间给你发一张照片，以便你记住他的样子？
Oh, my god, this guy is totally fighting with Adam.
天哪，这家伙完全是在跟亚当打架啊。
[LAUGHTER] Alex Blumberg I love that.
[笑声] Alex Blumberg 我喜欢这个。
I love it.
我喜欢它。
Yeah.
是的。
That's it.
就是这样。
I mean, there's one more funny moment, if you wanted to play the--
我的意思是，还有一个有趣的时刻，如果你想玩——
Yeah, let's hear it.
是的，我们来听听。
Alex Blumberg I mean, it just comes right after that.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg），我的意思是，它就在那之后发生。
It's like the next section, where he talks about-- he basically sort of hectors at him even more, because he says, there's one way that you could raise the value, is if you have a partner who loves you.
就像下一节他谈到的那样——他基本上对他更加威胁，因为他说，有一种方法可以提高价值，那就是如果你有一个爱你的伴侣。
Girlfriends don't count.
女朋友不算数。
Adam Davidson They don't count?
亚当·戴维森 他们不算数？
Absolutely not.
绝对不是。
Adam Davidson I see my girlfriend every day and we're madly in love.
亚当·戴维森（Adam Davidson） 我每天都见到我的女朋友，我们疯狂地相爱。
If you love her that much, marry her.
如果你那么爱她，就嫁给她吧。
Show her the respect.
向她表示尊重。
Quit shacking up and marry her, and then she'll count.
别再同居了，嫁给她吧，然后她就会算数了。
Yeah.
是的。
That guy was amazing.
那家伙太棒了。
Act 8 Ira Glass Alex Blumberg.
第 8 幕 艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 亚历克斯·布隆伯格 (Alex Blumberg)。
So as we've approached the 500th episode, I've been asked a lot about what stories and moments over the years are my favorites.
当我们接近第 500 集时，我被问了很多关于这些年来我最喜欢的故事和时刻。
And I'm asked that a lot in general, but that has totally stepped up lately.
一般来说，我经常被问到这个问题，但最近这种问题已经完全增加了。
And some of my favorites really are the same shows, I think, that listeners pick when they pick their favorites.
我认为，我最喜欢的一些节目实际上与听众在选择他们最喜欢的节目时所选择的节目相同。
There's the camp show.
那里有营地表演。
The aircraft carrier.
航空母舰。
"Harper High School." "Switched at Birth." Sarah Koenig's episode about the two Dr. Gilmers, recently.
“哈珀高中。” “一出生就变了。”最近，莎拉·柯尼格 (Sarah Koenig) 讲述了两位吉尔默博士 (Dr. Gilmers) 的故事。
Starlee Kine's break-up story.
斯塔莉·凯恩的分手故事。
"The Giant Pool of Money." The Harold Washington show-- forgive me for half minute, those of you who don't know our show so well, that I'm naming stuff without playing clips.
“巨大的金钱池。”哈罗德·华盛顿秀——请原谅我花半分钟时间，那些不太了解我们节目的人，我只是在不播放剪辑的情况下命名内容。
There's no time to play all this stuff.
没有时间玩所有这些东西。
But I think honestly-- and I'm not totally proud of this-- a lot of my favorite moments are just things that I like for completely selfish reasons.
但老实说，我并不完全为此感到自豪，我最喜欢的很多时刻只是出于完全自私的原因而喜欢的东西。
Like I got a chance to say something that meant a lot to me for whatever reason.
就像我有机会说出一些对我来说意义重大的事情，无论出于什么原因。
Or really, when the experience of making a story, just the experience of making it, meant a lot to me, like working on the episode last year after David Rakoff died.
或者说真的，当制作故事的经历，仅仅是制作故事的经历，对我来说意义重大，就像去年大卫·拉科夫去世后制作这一集一样。
Or back in the year 2000, I visited David Sedaris in Paris for a show.
或者早在 2000 年，我就去巴黎拜访了 David Sedaris 参加一场演出。
Or making a batch of Coca-Cola from what we believe is one of the original recipes.
或者用我们认为的原始配方之一制作一批可口可乐。
Or years ago, going to Medieval Times with a medieval scholar, who's now passed away.
或者几年前，和一位现已去世的中世纪学者一起去中世纪时代。
Or going to Georgia over and over and over and getting to know people and trying to get them to speak on the record about this small-town judge for the story I was doing.
或者一遍又一遍地去佐治亚州，结识一些人，并试图让他们公开谈论这位小镇法官对我正在做的故事的看法。
Or my parents used to be on the show a lot, a lot, in the early years of the show.
或者我的父母在节目的早期经常出现在节目中。
And I'll play you a clip.
我会给你播放一个剪辑。
This is my mom, from our very first episode.
从我们第一集开始，这就是我的妈妈。
Just listen to how skeptical she sounds at first in this clip.
听听这段视频中她一开始听起来有多怀疑。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass Can I record a quick conversation with you about something?
Ira Glass 我可以录制一段与您的简短对话吗？
What about?
又怎样呢？
Ira Glass Well, you know the new show goes on the air this week.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）嗯，你知道新节目本周将播出。
Yeah.
是的。
Ira Glass Are you and dad still worried about me making a living in public radio?
艾拉·格拉斯 你和爸爸还在担心我靠公共广播谋生吗？
I mean, I know just for years, you were urging me just to get out and get basically any job in TV that I possibly could.
我的意思是，我知道多年来，你一直在敦促我离开并在电视上找到任何我可能找到的工作。
But now that I've got my own show, are you guys still worried?
但现在我有了自己的节目，你们还担心吗？
Or do you feel like things are going OK?
或者你觉得事情进展顺利吗？
Now that Hugh Grant is such a big star, and everybody who sees you or sees your picture thinks how much you look like Hugh Grant, that sort of fires up that TV thing again in me.
现在休·格兰特已经是一位大明星了，每个看到你或看到你照片的人都认为你长得很像休·格兰特，这又让我想起了电视上的事。
[LAUGHS]
[笑]
I'm just going to stop that clip.
我只是要停止那个剪辑。
Can I just say?
我可以简单说一下吗？
I look nothing like Hugh Grant.
我看起来一点也不像休·格兰特。
Only my mother could think I look like Hugh Grant.
只有我妈妈会认为我长得像休·格兰特。
Anyway, one of the big surprises, actually, of doing the radio show is that it brought me a lot closer with my parents.
不管怎样，实际上，做广播节目的最大惊喜之一是它让我和父母的关系更加亲密。
Things were pretty chilly between us before then because they disapproved of what I was doing with my life.
在那之前我们之间的关系非常冷淡，因为他们不同意我的生活。
I have joked in the past that my parents are the only Jews in America who do not like Public Radio.
我过去开玩笑说我的父母是美国唯一不喜欢公共广播的犹太人。
But having them be part of this thing that meant so much to me, being on the radio show, really made us closer in a way that I never anticipated could have happened.
但让他们成为对我来说意义重大的事情的一部分，参加广播节目，确实以一种我从未预料到的方式让我们更加亲密。
And they came around on the Public Radio stuff.
他们出现在公共广播电台的节目中。
Here's my dad from show number 94-- this is February 1998-- coming on the air with some constructive criticism about the way that I read the show's credits.
这是我父亲在 94 号节目中的表现——这是 1998 年 2 月——他在节目中对我阅读节目制作人员名单的方式提出了一些建设性的批评。
Sometimes you just, you know, roll right through them without a lot of emotion, or maybe without sounding like a lot of caring.
有时你只是，你知道，只是简单地浏览它们，没有太多的情感，或者可能听起来没有太多的关心。
And well, you're just not giving it enough importance.
好吧，你只是没有给予它足够的重视。
You're anxious to beat the clock or something like that, or to get to a cup of coffee, or I don't know what.
你急于赶时间或类似的事情，或者想喝杯咖啡，或者我不知道是什么。
Yeah.
是的。
So give me some pointers.
所以请给我一些指示。
Give me some how-to.
给我一些操作方法。
Well, I think you just ought to take your time and not rush through it so quickly.
好吧，我认为你应该慢慢来，不要这么快就完成它。
OK, enough of that.
好吧，够了。
Hi, Dad.
嗨，爸爸。
Act 9 Ira Glass OK, so I'd like to end the show today with this last story.
第 9 幕 Ira Glass 好的，我想用最后一个故事来结束今天的节目。
This is one of Julie's picks.
这是朱莉的选择之一。
Here she is.
她在这里。
And the only reason I bring up this one is because I know a lot of people have told me, oh, that they've listened to the show and cried, or they hear a lot of different stories and it makes them cry.
我提起这个的唯一原因是因为我知道很多人告诉我，哦，他们听了这个节目并哭了，或者他们听到了很多不同的故事，这让他们哭了。
Or I don't like listening to the show sometimes, because it totally makes me cry.
或者有时我不喜欢听这个节目，因为它完全让我哭。
I'm a little more hard-hearted.
我的心比较狠一点。
I don't cry as easily.
我没那么容易哭。
I'm always like a little dumbfounded when people tell me about the things that made them cry.
当人们告诉我那些让他们哭泣的事情时，我总是有点目瞪口呆。
Sure, it's sad.
当然，这是悲伤的。
I'm not gonna cry.
我不会哭。
Also, there's just the working here.
另外，这里只是工作。
Once you've heard something a couple of times and stuff, it doesn't make you cry anymore, you know?
一旦你听过某件事几次，它就不会再让你哭泣，你知道吗？
There is one story, and I have heard this story so many times.
有一个故事，这个故事我听过很多次了。
And then I had to listen to just to make sure that it held up before I came and talked to you.
然后我必须倾听，以确保在我来和你交谈之前它能持续下去。
I cried.
我哭了。
Seriously, like throat catching, cried walking down Seventh Avenue yesterday morning, coming into work.
说真的，昨天早上，我在第七大道上班时哭着走着，喉咙像被卡住了一样。
Of where I was like, oh my god, somebody's going to see that I'm crying.
我当时想，天啊，有人会看到我在哭。
To my own show.
为了我自己的表演。
Julie Snyder To my own show.
朱莉·斯奈德 我自己的节目。
[BOTH LAUGH] A story that I totally know how this goes.
[两人都笑]我完全知道这是怎么回事。
What story is it?
这是什么故事呢？
Julie Snyder I can't believe you don't obviously know.
朱莉·斯奈德 我不敢相信你显然不知道。
What is it?
它是什么？
Julie Snyder "Mama, I'm Sorry."
朱莉·斯奈德“妈妈，对不起。”
Awww.
噢。
Julie Snyder Oh, it gets me every time.
朱莉·斯奈德 噢，每次都让我感动。
OK, all right.
好吧，好吧。
So this is from our show "20 Acts in 60 Minutes."
这是我们的节目《60 分钟 20 幕》中的内容。
Yep.
是的。
Ira Glass Act 20.
艾拉·格拉斯法案 20。
"The Greatest Moment I Ever Saw On a Stage." I'll say, first of all, that this moment that I saw caught me completely off-guard.
“我在舞台上看到的最伟大的时刻。”首先，我要说的是，我看到的这一刻让我完全措手不及。
I was at a play where I was not expecting anything special.
我当时正在看一场戏，并没有期待有什么特别的事情。
It was put on by an organization that works with teenagers.
它是由一个与青少年合作的组织举办的。
Music Theater Workshop is what it's called.
音乐戏剧工作坊就是它的名字。
And among other things, they get kids who are locked up in Chicago's juvenile detention center, the Audy Home, to write and perform musicals about their lives.
除此之外，他们还让被关押在芝加哥青少年拘留中心奥迪之家的孩子们创作并表演有关他们生活的音乐剧。
This one was performed by teenage girls.
这是由十几岁的女孩表演的。
OK, so we're in the detention center.
好的，我们现在在看守所了。
Folding chairs have been set up.
折叠椅已经摆好。
The girl's parents-- it's mostly mothers and grandmothers, very few men-- are sitting directly in front of the stage.
女孩的父母——主要是母亲和祖母，很少有男性——坐在舞台正前方。
And imagine for a minute what it's like to be one of those parents, OK?
想象一下成为这些父母中的一员会是什么样子，好吗？
Your kid's locked up, possibly on very serious charges, some of these girls were.
你的孩子被关起来了，可能是因为受到非常严重的指控，其中一些女孩被关起来了。
You're worried about what's going to happen to them next.
你担心他们接下来会发生什么。
You're probably still mad that they didn't listen to you in the first place and got into all this trouble, and ended up behind bars.
你可能还在生气，因为他们一开始就没有听你的，陷入了所有这些麻烦，最终入狱。
What can theater possibly do for you in this situation?
在这种情况下，戏剧可以为你做什么？
You know?
你知道？
It seems like such an old-fashioned idea that it can do anything.
这似乎是一个老式的想法，它可以做任何事情。
And it's a story of this girl named Candace.
这是一个名叫坎迪斯的女孩的故事。
And Candace basically wanted better clothes so the other kids at school wouldn't laugh at her.
坎迪斯基本上想要更好的衣服，这样学校里的其他孩子就不会嘲笑她。
And she steals some clothes from Nike Town and she gets in trouble.
她从耐克城偷了一些衣服，结果惹上了麻烦。
She gets caught.
她被抓住了。
And then she joins a gang to earn some money and be more popular.
然后她加入一个帮派来赚一些钱并变得更受欢迎。
Her mom finds some drugs in the house, and a gun, and feels completely betrayed because that was not how she raised her daughter.
她的妈妈在家里发现了一些毒品和一把枪，她感到完全被背叛了，因为这不是她抚养女儿的方式。
And one thing leads to another, and Candace gets locked up.
一件事引发了另一件事，坎迪斯被关了起来。
Then the girl narrating the story says, and this is how Candace feels about her mom now.
然后讲述故事的女孩说道，这就是坎迪斯现在对她妈妈的感觉。
And then all the girls in the play come out on the stage and stand in a line, facing their mothers and grandmothers who are right there in front of them.
然后剧中的所有女孩都走上舞台，站成一排，面对着她们面前的母亲和祖母。
[MUSIC PLAYING] Girls (SINGING) Mama, I'm sorry for what I have done.
[音乐播放] 女孩们（唱歌） 妈妈，我为我所做的事感到抱歉。
I was arrested and ended up here in the Audy Home.
我被捕并被关进奥迪之家。
Oh, I'm sorry for putting you through all of this.
哦，很抱歉让你经历这一切。
I know you are mad about the good times that we miss.
我知道你对我们错过的美好时光感到生气。
I'm ready to come back home.
我准备回家了。
I'm willing to make a change.
我愿意做出改变。
One of the verses goes, Mama, I'm sorry for making you come to court, for almost losing your job to give me moral support.
其中一首诗是这样的：“妈妈，我很抱歉让您上法庭，为了给我道义上的支持，您差点失去工作。”
Mama, I'm sorry for putting you through all the stress, for making you worry yourself and depressed.
妈妈，我很抱歉让您承受所有的压力，让您自己担心和沮丧。
I'm ready to come back home.
我准备回家了。
I'm willing to make a change.
我愿意做出改变。
And by this time, the girls are all crying.
而这个时候，女孩们都哭了。
The parents are all crying.
父母都哭了。
And each girl has a cut-out-- you know, like a little heart, like on Valentine's Day?
每个女孩都有一个剪纸——你知道，就像一颗小心，就像情人节那样？
Like that, made from red construction paper.
像这样，用红色建筑纸制成。
Like the size of your palm.
就像手掌大小一样。
And written on each one is the words "I'm sorry."
每张纸上都写着“对不起”。
And each girl goes out to the audience, to where her mom is sitting or her grandma is sitting and hands her the heart.
每个女孩都走到观众席，到她妈妈坐的地方或她奶奶坐的地方，把心交给她。
And the parents are crying, and the kids are crying, and everybody is hugging.
父母在哭泣，孩子们在哭泣，每个人都在拥抱。
It was really something.
这确实是一件事情。
(SINGING) I'll do anything for you, Mama.
（唱歌）我会为你做任何事，妈妈。
Please forget about yesterday.
请忘记昨天。
Mama, I'm sorry.
妈妈，对不起。
Here they were, not just saying this to their mothers, but saying it publicly, in front of the world, in front of their friends.
在这里，他们不仅对他们的母亲说这句话，而且在全世界、在他们的朋友面前公开说这句话。
Saying this thing that could be so hard to say in any case, you know?
说这件事无论如何都很难说，你知道吗？
Singing it out, and hoping it can heal something that is going to be hard to heal, no matter what you do.
唱出来，希望它能治愈一些无论你做什么都难以治愈的事情。
(SINGING) Mama, I'm sorry.
（唱歌）妈妈，对不起。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
(TEARFULLY BUT LAUGHING) Isn't it the worst?
（泪流满面但大笑）这不是最糟糕的吗？
You're crying?
你在哭吗？
Julie Snyder I find it so sad.
朱莉·斯奈德 我觉得很悲伤。
(SINGING) I'm sorry.
（唱歌）对不起。
Sorry.
对不起。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
I'm sorry.
对不起。
Mama, I'm sorry.
妈妈，对不起。
[MUSIC - MATT POSS BAND, "AMERICAN LIFE"]
[音乐 - 马特·波斯乐队，“美国生活”]
Well, our program was produced today by Sarah Koenig and myself, with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Lisa Pollak, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由莎拉·科尼格和我本人制作，参与人员还有亚历克斯·布隆伯格、本·卡尔霍恩、米基·米克、乔纳森·门吉瓦尔、丽莎·波拉克、布莱恩·里德、罗宾·塞米恩、艾丽莎·希普和南希·厄普代克。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Thanks today to all the other producers who have worked on the show over the years, who did such a beautiful job making the stories that you heard today-- Peter Clowney, Alix Spiegel, Doris Wilbur, Susan Burton, Blue Chevigny, Wendy Dorr, Starlee Kine, Jonathan Goldstein, Diane Cook, John Jeter, and Jane Feltes AKA Jane MariE.
今天，感谢多年来参与该剧的所有其他制片人，他们为你们今天听到的故事做了如此出色的工作——彼得·克劳尼、阿利克斯·斯皮格尔、多丽丝·威尔伯、苏珊·伯顿、布鲁·切维尼、温迪·多尔、斯塔利·凯恩、乔纳森·戈德斯坦、黛安·库克、约翰·杰特和简·费尔特斯（又名简·玛丽）。
Thanks bigger than I think thanks can actually say to Torey Malatia, who I started the radio show with at WBEZ.
我对托里·马拉蒂亚 (Torey Malatia) 的感激之情超出了我的想象，我和他一起在 WBEZ 开始了广播节目。
Production help today from Thea Benin.
今天，西娅·贝宁 (Thea Benin) 为制作提供帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our production manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson's our administrative assistant.
埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的行政助理。
Music help from Damien Graef and Robb Geddes.
Damien Graef 和 Robb Geddes 提供音乐帮助。
Our website, where we have added all kinds of extra stuff this week for the 500th episode-- thanks to Rich Orris for helping with that.
我们的网站，本周我们为第 500 集添加了各种额外的内容——感谢 Rich Orris 的帮助。
And where you can listen to all 500 episodes for absolutely free on your computer or using our app on your cellphone or iPad.
您可以在计算机上或在手机或 iPad 上使用我们的应用程序免费收听全部 500 集。
We also have lists that we hope are helpful of listeners' favorite shows at our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们还在我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org 上列出了听众最喜欢的节目列表，希望对您有所帮助。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
I hope my father heard me read these credits and felt I did OK.
我希望我父亲听到我读了这些学分并觉得我做得很好。
WBEZ management oversight for our show by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia, who has this message today.
WBEZ 的老板 Torey Malatia 先生对我们的演出进行了管理监督，他今天传达了这样的信息。
Hello, I'm Torey Malatia.
你好，我是托里·马拉蒂亚。
I am a real person.
我是一个真实的人。
Happy 500th episode.
第 500 集快乐。
Now get back to work.
现在回去工作吧。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC - MATT POSS BAND, "AMERICAN LIFE"]
[音乐 - 马特·波斯乐队，“美国生活”]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。