499: Taking Names - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #499 | June 28, 2013 499: Taking Names Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 499 集 | 2013 年 6 月 28 日 499：点名 注意：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass It's This American Life.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
One of our producers, Nancy Updike, remembers the first time that she met Kirk Johnson.
我们的制片人之一南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 还记得她第一次见到柯克·约翰逊 (Kirk Johnson) 的情景。
It was 2007.
那是2007年。
And he told me about a crazy plan that he was considering.
他告诉我他正在考虑一个疯狂的计划。
What was the plan?
计划是什么？
Nancy Updike The plan involved Iraqi refugees.
南希·厄普代克 该计划涉及伊拉克难民。
At the time, it was a brand new, very raw issue.
当时，这是一个全新的、非常原始的问题。
These were Iraqis who had worked for the US during the Iraq War, interpreting or doing other jobs.
这些伊拉克人在伊拉克战争期间曾为美国工作，从事口译或其他工作。
And as the war got worse, they were being targeted for having worked with the US.
随着战争愈演愈烈，他们因与美国合作而成为攻击目标。
People were being killed.
人们被杀害。
They were being tortured, kidnapped.
他们遭到酷刑、绑架。
A lot went into hiding or went on the run.
许多人躲藏起来或逃跑了。
And so what was he thinking about doing to deal with this?
那么他正在考虑采取什么措施来解决这个问题呢？
So the plan he was mulling was, OK, he was going to gather a small group of these Iraqis who'd worked with the US-- around 50-- and somehow get them to Jamaica, somewhere in the Caribbean, at which point he would charter a high-speed boat and race them over to the United States, hoping to outrun the Coast Guard so that he could get them onto American soil where they could claim asylum.
所以他正在考虑的计划是，好吧，他要召集一小群曾与美国合作过的伊拉克人——大约50人——然后以某种方式将他们带到加勒比海某个地方的牙买加，然后他会包租一艘高速船，将他们赶到美国，希望能跑过海岸警卫队，这样他就可以把他们带到美国领土上，在那里他们可以申请庇护。
Wow.
哇。
Nancy Updike That's what I said.
南希·厄普代克 我就是这么说的。
That's exactly what I said.
我就是这么说的。
Wow.
哇。
So who is Kirk Johnson?
那么柯克·约翰逊是谁？
Well, he had worked in Iraq with USAID, the agency that gives out America's foreign aid.
嗯，他曾在伊拉克与美国国际开发署（美国国际开发署）合作，该机构负责提供美国的对外援助。
He spoke Arabic.
他说阿拉伯语。
And by 2007, when Nancy met him, he was still just this guy in his mid-20s, but he had kind of become the public face of this issue-- of Iraqis who had worked with the US forces and were now in danger because of it and had to get out of the country.
到了 2007 年，当南希遇见他时，他仍然只是这个 20 多岁的人，但他已经成为这个问题的公众代言人——那些曾与美军合作过的伊拉克人，现在因此陷入危险，不得不离开这个国家。
He was writing about this.
他正在写这件事。
He was appearing on TV.
他出现在电视上。
He was talking to people in Congress.
他正在与国会议员交谈。
He set up a nonprofit organization to help these Iraqis.
他成立了一个非营利组织来帮助这些伊拉克人。
And Nancy says that when he ran this proposal by her in 2007, she thought to herself, OK, well, here is just somebody who is up against a problem that is so big and intractable, I guess he's mulling over some crazy schemes.
南希说，当他在 2007 年提出这个提案时，她心想，好吧，好吧，这只是一个人面临着一个如此大而棘手的问题，我猜他正在考虑一些疯狂的计划。
But that's not even what was going on.
但事实并非如此。
I talked to him a few weeks ago and found out that that wasn't even his idea.
几周前我和他谈过，发现这根本不是他的主意。
He didn't come up with that.
他没有想到这一点。
He told me that this boat chartering, outrunning the Coast Guard scheme had actually been suggested to him by someone pretty high up in the government's refugee resettlement bureaucracy.
他告诉我，这种超越海岸警卫队计划的包船实际上是由政府难民安置官僚机构中相当高的人向他建议的。
Wow.
哇。
Nancy Updike Right.
南希·厄普代克 对。
Another wow.
另一个哇。
Kirk had met with him to ask for help-- regular, above board, inside the bounds of the law help.
柯克曾与他会面寻求帮助——正规的、光明正大的、在法律范围内的帮助。
And the man had told him, in all seriousness, I can't help you from my lofty position.
那个人还严肃地告诉他，我无法以我崇高的地位帮助你。
But I've done some research into maritime law.
但我对海商法做了一些研究。
And here's what I think you should do.
这就是我认为你应该做的。
And in the years since then, it's been so hard to get these Iraqis who worked with the US to safety that Kirk has thought back on that conversation many, many times, he says.
他说，从那以后的几年里，让这些与美国合作的伊拉克人安全起来非常困难，以至于柯克多次回想起那次谈话。
This is Kirk talking about this.
这是柯克在谈论这个。
And as depressing as it was that this was his recommended strategy, I actually still think he's right.
尽管这是他推荐的策略，但令人沮丧的是，我实际上仍然认为他是对的。
And I sometimes wonder, if I had done the boat thing, maybe this issue would have been solved a long time ago.
有时我会想，如果我做了船的事情，也许这个问题早就解决了。
Wait.
等待。
Nancy, didn't we solve this problem?
南希，我们没有解决这个问题吗？
Am I remembering wrong?
难道是我记错了？
Didn't they pass a law or something that was going to allow exactly these people into the country, people who had worked with US forces in Iraq and their lives were in danger?
难道他们没有通过一项法律或其他什么东西来允许这些人进入这个国家，这些人曾在伊拉克与美军一起工作，他们的生命处于危险之中？
Yeah, more than one law.
是的，不止一项法律。
And I think a lot of people, when they hear about this, have the same reaction.
我想很多人听到这个消息时都会有同样的反应。
Didn't we fix this?
我们没有解决这个问题吗？
And this issue-- what to do with these Iraqis-- is this zombie problem.
这个问题——如何处理这些伊拉克人——就是僵尸问题。
It has seemingly been dealt with over and over only to rise again and keep staggering forward.
看似经历了一遍又一遍的处理，却又重新站起来，继续蹒跚前行。
We've passed laws starting in 2008.
我们从 2008 年开始通过了法律。
It's not a partisan issue.
这不是党派问题。
Republicans and Democrats came together to create a special track for these Iraqis in the visa process to speed them through.
共和党和民主党齐心协力，在签证过程中为这些伊拉克人创建了一条特殊通道，以加快他们的通过速度。
But the problem is still not fixed.
但问题仍然没有解决。
There are still thousands of Iraqis who worked with the US and have applied to come here out of fear for their lives and their families' lives, and they're still just waiting, often for years.
仍有数千名与美国合作的伊拉克人出于对自己和家人生命的恐惧而申请来到这里，但他们仍然只是在等待，往往长达数年。
Well, today on our radio program, yes, for once, a national problem where we all agree that we should fix it and how to fix it.
好吧，今天在我们的广播节目中，是的，这一次，这是一个全国性的问题，我们都同意我们应该解决它以及如何解决它。
And yet, somehow we have not gotten the job done.
然而，不知怎的，我们还没有完成工作。
Kirk Johnson gives us the incredible behind the scenes stories of what has happened to fix this problem, what has not happened, and why.
柯克·约翰逊（Kirk Johnson）为我们讲述了令人难以置信的幕后故事，讲述了解决这个问题所发生的事情、尚未发生的事情以及原因。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Kirk himself, I should say, had no special interest originally in refugees or anything like that.
我应该说，柯克本人最初对难民或类似的事情没有特别的兴趣。
He sometimes says that he stumbled into this issue.
他有时说他偶然发现了这个问题。
Nancy Updike tells what happened.
南希·厄普代克讲述了发生的事情。
Kirk's story starts in kind of a weird place-- on a family vacation in the Dominican Republic, his first vacation after his first year in Iraq.
柯克的故事开始于一个奇怪的地方——全家在多米尼加共和国度假，这是他在伊拉克一年后的第一次假期。
And on his first night there, he sleepwalked up to the open window in his hotel room, woke up, and thought he was still in Fallujah.
在那里的第一个晚上，他梦游到酒店房间开着的窗户前，醒来，以为自己还在费卢杰。
He shouted and ducked.
他大喊一声，躲开。
He says there had been a sniper or snipers in Fallujah around that time who killed more than a dozen Marines.
他说，当时费卢杰有一名或多名狙击手杀死了十几名海军陆战队员。
And he thought for a second that he was standing in front of an open window in Fallujah with no body armor.
他想了想，自己正站在费卢杰一扇开着的窗户前，没有穿防弹衣。
This was early in the war.
这是战争初期的事。
And it didn't occur to him that he might have PTSD.
他没有想到自己可能患有创伤后应激障碍。
He thought it was just some bad, weird dream.
他认为这只是一些糟糕而奇怪的梦。
The next night, he sleepwalked again, right out the second floor window of the hotel, about a 17-foot fall to concrete.
第二天晚上，他再次梦游，从酒店二楼的窗户掉下来，从大约 17 英尺高的水泥地上摔下来。
He broke both his wrists, his upper jaw, his nose, cracked his skull, needed about 70 stitches in his face.
他的手腕、上颌、鼻子都骨折了，头骨也裂了，脸上缝了大约 70 针。
The good part is that I-- most of doctors that I've had, when they take in the extent of the injuries, have told me that there's no reason I should be walking.
好的一点是，我见过的大多数医生在了解受伤程度时都告诉我，我没有理由走路。
Is the explanation for you not being more injured that you were asleep and your body was just limp?
难道你没有受伤更严重，是因为你睡着了，身体软绵绵的吗？
Or is it just dumb luck--
或者只是运气不好——
Yeah.
是的。
I just think maybe-- I started taking Centrum multivitamins about a year before the accident.
我只是想也许——事故发生前一年左右我开始服用 Centrum 多种维生素。
And maybe my bones were sufficiently strong.
也许我的骨头足够坚固。
But I just know I lucked out.
但我只知道我很幸运。
You were spared to be in a Centrum commercial later in life?
您后来幸免于出演 Centrum 广告吗？
(LAUGHING) Yeah, right.
（笑）是的，没错。
Nancy Updike Kirk's plan was eight weeks' recovery and then right back to Iraq.
南希·厄普代克·柯克的计划是恢复八周，然后立即返回伊拉克。
Instead, he spent the next several months in his hometown in Illinois, getting a series of painful surgeries, fighting with his health insurance company, struggling to do basic things like eat or hold a pen, and running out of money.
相反，他在伊利诺伊州的家乡度过了接下来的几个月，接受了一系列痛苦的手术，与他的健康保险公司发生争执，努力做一些基本的事情，比如吃饭或握笔，而且钱也花光了。
Kirk's an ambitious guy.
柯克是一个雄心勃勃的人。
His work in Iraq was something he'd been building toward this whole life.
他在伊拉克的工作是他一生的目标。
He started learning Arabic at 16 years old, got a Fulbright to Cairo at 21, and at 24, was hired by USAID to go to Iraq.
他 16 岁开始学习阿拉伯语，21 岁时获得富布赖特奖学金前往开罗，24 岁时受美国国际开发署聘请前往伊拉克。
All he wanted was to go back, and he couldn't.
他只想回去，但他不能。
He had to restart his adult life from scratch.
他必须从头开始自己的成年生活。
I started studying for the law school admissions test.
我开始准备法学院入学考试。
And I really did feel at that point that I was moving on.
那时我确实感觉到我正在继续前进。
I was having the nightmares less.
我的噩梦少了。
I was thinking about Iraq less.
我对伊拉克的思考较少。
I stopped reading the news from Iraq.
我不再阅读来自伊拉克的新闻。
But one day, one of my good Iraqi friends sent an email-- he was one of the highest ranked Iraqis that worked for USAID.
但有一天，我的一位伊拉克好朋友发了一封电子邮件——他是为美国国际开发署工作的级别最高的伊拉克人之一。
I think it was a $130 million program that he was working on.
我认为他正在进行一项耗资 1.3 亿美元的项目。
And he opened up his front door and found the severed head of a dog and a death threat note that said that we're going to cut off your heads.
他打开前门，发现了一只狗的头，还有一张死亡威胁纸条，上面写着我们要砍掉你的头。
I mean, a very clear death threat lobbed into their front yard.
我的意思是，一个非常明显的死亡威胁传到了他们的前院。
When Kirk got this email, it was the fall of 2006, and he was practically broke and living in his aunt's basement on a futon.
当柯克收到这封电子邮件时，那是 2006 年秋天，他几乎身无分文，住在姨妈的地下室的蒲团上。
So with the email, he felt like, that's terrible, but there's nothing I can do.
因此，通过电子邮件，他觉得，这太糟糕了，但我无能为力。
It took him a few weeks to realize that maybe there was something he could do.
他花了几周的时间才意识到也许他可以做点什么。
He started writing an op ed, saying, I think our government should help my friend and people like him.
他开始写一篇专栏文章，说，我认为我们的政府应该帮助我的朋友和像他这样的人。
I felt that of course there's some office to give out visas to these people.
我觉得当然有一些办公室可以给这些人发放签证。
Of course the government has some program.
当然政府有一些计划。
It's just that my friends haven't heard about yet.
只是我的朋友还没有听说过。
And so--
所以——
And neither have I, but I'll do this op ed, and then I'm going to connect the people.
我也没有，但我会写这篇专栏文章，然后我会把人们联系起来。
Yeah, somebody will step forward and just fix it.
是的，有人会挺身而出并修复它。
And I think in my mind, it was kind of as simple as, if I could maybe help him get out-- I didn't know anything about how refugee admissions worked.
我认为在我看来，这有点简单，就像我是否可以帮助他离开一样——我对难民接纳是如何运作的一无所知。
But I thought that maybe if we could get him out into safety, that I would have one positive thing to look at from my year in Iraq rather than a bunch of failed projects and the accident.
但我想，也许如果我们能让他安全离开，我在伊拉克的这一年就会看到一件积极的事情，而不是一堆失败的项目和事故。
Kirk's op ed ran in the Los Angeles Times in mid-December 2006.
柯克的专栏文章于 2006 年 12 月中旬发表在《洛杉矶时报》上。
And I remember thinking, OK.
我记得我当时想，好吧。
Good job, buddy.
干得好，伙计。
What a good thing you've done by raising awareness of this situation.
通过提高人们对这种情况的认识，你做了一件多么好的事情啊。
And I was getting back to work on the law school stuff, except that I started getting all of these emails from other former colleagues at USAID, former Iraqi colleagues.
我又开始处理法学院的事情了，除了我开始收到美国国际开发署其他前同事、前伊拉克同事发来的所有这些电子邮件。
It was within an hour or so that it was put online.
不到一个小时左右，它就被放到网上了。
And then by the afternoon, I was getting hundreds of emails from Iraqis that had read the article but who had worked at the State Department or as interpreters for the military.
到了下午，我收到了数百封来自伊拉克人的电子邮件，他们读过这篇文章，但曾在国务院工作或担任过军方的翻译。
So in other words, people you had not worked with directly, but they knew people who knew you or who had read it and it just got forwarded around.
换句话说，那些你没有直接共事过的人，但他们认识认识你的人，或者读过这本书的人，而这本书就被转发了。
Exactly.
确切地。
And they were all telling me their stories and sending me pictures of family members who had been killed, pictures of their bodies where they had been tortured or shot, pictures of the stumps of limbs that had been blown off while they were interpreting for the Marines.
他们都在向我讲述他们的故事，并向我发送被杀害的家庭成员的照片、他们遭受酷刑或枪杀的尸体的照片、他们在为海军陆战队翻译时被炸掉的肢体残肢的照片。
And all of a sudden, I was staring into the guts of the refugee crisis.
突然之间，我开始关注难民危机的本质。
They were grown men and women and heads of families that were telling me that I was their only hope and that they were putting all of their faith in me to help them with their cases.
他们是成年男女和一家之主，他们告诉我，我是他们唯一的希望，他们完全相信我会帮助他们处理案件。
And I was just this unemployed, scar-faced scrub at that point.
那时我只是一个失业的、满脸疤痕的磨砂人。
I was not like, all right--
我不是这样的，好吧——
You've come to right place.
您来对地方了。
Kirk Johnson --everybody rally behind me kind of thing.
柯克·约翰逊——每个人都团结在我身后。
There was none of that.
没有这些。
It was just like, holy cow, I have just bumbled into something way bigger than I know what to do with.
就好像，天啊，我刚刚遇到了一些比我不知道该怎么办的更大的事情。
I need to find the real people who I'll just give this stuff to, and they'll just solve it.
我需要找到真正的人，我会把这些东西交给他们，他们就会解决这个问题。
Kirk didn't know it yet, but there wasn't some special process at the time for dealing with most of these Iraqis.
柯克还不知道，当时并没有什么特殊的程序来处理这些伊拉克人中的大多数。
All there was was one small program to let in 50 Iraqi or Afghan interpreters a year.
只有一个小计划，每年引进 50 名伊拉克或阿富汗口译员。
That was it, even though there were tens of thousands of Iraqis doing all sorts of jobs for the United States, jobs that were increasingly risky to be seen doing-- office jobs, operating machinery, working as cooks, drivers, and interpreters.
就是这样，尽管有数以万计的伊拉克人为美国从事各种工作，但这些工作的风险越来越大——办公室工作、操作机器、厨师、司机和口译员。
Kirk started putting together a list of names.
柯克开始整理一份名单。
And his plan was to meet with representatives from the Refugee Bureau in the State Department and give them the list.
他的计划是会见国务院难民局的代表，并向他们提供名单。
Just go to the top and solve the problem directly.
直接到最上面就可以解决问题了。
But he wanted to keep his request simple.
但他想让他的要求简单一些。
He knew from working in a government bureaucracy himself, USAID, that simple works best.
他本人在政府官僚机构美国国际开发署工作过，他知道简单的方法效果最好。
So his first list was just Iraqis he knew from working at USAID.
因此，他的第一份名单只是他在美国国际开发署工作时认识的伊拉克人。
He would just be the USAID guy with a list of USAID names.
他只是美国国际开发署的负责人，有一份美国国际开发署的名单。
He spent weeks tracking them all down, not just the ones who had already written to him, and putting information about each one-- who they were, where they were, what job they'd done, what had happened to them-- into an Excel spreadsheet.
他花了数周的时间来追踪所有这些人，而不仅仅是那些已经写信给他的人，并将每个人的信息——他们是谁、他们在哪里、他们做过什么工作、他们发生了什么——放入 Excel 电子表格中。
Next, Kirk gave the list to the State Department Refugee Bureau.
接下来，柯克将名单交给了国务院难民局。
But the meeting was short and inconclusive.
但会议时间很短，而且没有结论。
He wasn't sure when he left what to expect from them in terms of help for the Iraqis on the list.
他不确定自己何时留下了对名单上伊拉克人的期望。
And then from that meeting, he headed to a second meeting in Washington.
在那次会议之后，他前往华盛顿参加第二次会议。
And that's where he got a much clearer sense of how at least some people in the government saw what he was doing.
正是在这里，他对至少政府中的一些人如何看待他正在做的事情有了更清晰的认识。
He went to the USAID office.
他去了美国国际开发署办公室。
I decided to pay a visit to USAID, kind of as a courtesy call to just explain what I thought I was doing with the list and also to just have a talk, because one of my former bosses had called me up after the op ed.
我决定拜访美国国际开发署，作为一种礼节性的拜访，只是为了解释我对这份清单的看法，同时也只是进行一次谈话，因为我的一位前老板在专栏发表后给我打电话。
He was a Bush appointee.
他是布什任命的。
And he had angrily said to me that I was dragging the nation back onto the rooftop of Saigon with the op ed.
他愤怒地对我说，我的这篇专栏文章正在把整个国家拖回西贡的屋顶上。
Meaning Kirk's op ed, which hadn't mentioned Vietnam, had reminded his former boss, and maybe others, that the United States had left Vietnamese allies behind at the end of the Vietnam War.
这意味着柯克的专栏文章没有提到越南，但提醒了他的前任老板，也许还有其他人，美国在越南战争结束时把越南盟友抛在了后面。
No one in the Bush administration wanted the Iraq War to remind anyone of Vietnam, especially at this point in early 2007, when the war was going so badly.
布什政府中没有人希望伊拉克战争让任何人想起越南战争，尤其是在 2007 年初，当时战争进展得如此糟糕。
And I walk into this room, and the Bush appointee that I had last seen in Baghdad, the Saigon rooftop dude, he's got a binder in front of him.
我走进这个房间，我最后一次在巴格达见到的布什任命的人，西贡屋顶的家伙，他面前有一个活页夹。
It's a green binder, and I notice my name is written on the binding of it.
这是一本绿色的活页夹，我注意到它的封面上写着我的名字。
And he says, Kirk, I don't know if you're aware about this, but you're not actually allowed to be writing about anything as a former-- you can't write about what you saw in Iraq.
他说，柯克，我不知道你是否意识到这一点，但实际上，作为一名前辈，你不被允许写任何东西——你不能写你在伊拉克看到的事情。
You can't write about-- as a former US government official, you have a gag order in your contract.
你不能写——作为一名前美国政府官员，你的合同中有一项禁言令。
And I knew my contract very well.
我非常了解我的合同。
There was no gag order or anything.
没有禁言令什么的。
And so I got annoyed, because I felt like it was an obnoxious way to start off the meeting.
所以我很生气，因为我觉得这是一种令人讨厌的会议开始方式。
But the tone was very--
但语气却很——
Don't make us hurt you.
别让我们伤害你。
Kirk Johnson Yeah.
柯克·约翰逊 是的。
He said, are you going to write anything else about Iraq?
他说，你还要写一些关于伊拉克的东西吗？
And I said, yes.
我说，是的。
And he goes, about what?
然后他就走了，关于什么？
And I said, well, I haven't made up my mind yet.
我说，好吧，我还没有下定决心。
And he goes, well, here's what we would prefer is that you submit all future publications to us for clearance first, because we'd hate to see your objectives tanked or torpedoed-- one of those phrases like, bad things might happen.
他说，好吧，我们希望你首先将所有未来的出版物提交给我们以供审批，因为我们不想看到你的目标被击沉或被鱼雷击中——其中一个短语是，坏事可能会发生。
And I just remember telling him that if you guys want to come after me on this, go for it.
我只记得告诉他，如果你们想在这件事上追随我，那就去做吧。
But just imagine what that's going to look like, that USAID is going after a former USAID employee for trying to help former USAID employees.
但想象一下，美国国际开发署正在追捕一名试图帮助美国国际开发署前雇员的前雇员。
That's about where the meeting ended.
会议就到这里结束了。
But the strangest part was what happened afterward.
但最奇怪的是后来发生的事情。
I just told him, all right, well, we don't really have anything else to talk about.
我只是告诉他，好吧，我们真的没有什么可谈的。
So I got up and walked out of the Bureau.
于是我起身走出了局。
And I could sense that he was behind me.
我能感觉到他就在我身后。
But when I was standing at the elevator bank to go back down, he thrusts his business card into my hand.
但当我站在电梯口准备下楼时，他把他的名片塞到了我手里。
And I didn't really understand, because obviously, I had this guy's contact info.
我真的不太明白，因为显然，我有这个人的联系信息。
There's no point in giving me a business card.
给我名片是没有意义的。
And I looked down, and he's written the name of an Iraqi woman on his business card.
我低头一看，他在名片上写下了一个伊拉克女人的名字。
And then he says to me in a hushed tone, he goes, look, if she gets in touch with you, make sure that you add her to your list.
然后他低声对我说，他说，看，如果她与你联系，请确保将她添加到你的名单中。
It was literally 90 seconds earlier that he had been trying to scare me out of doing something.
就在 90 秒前，他还试图吓唬我不要做某事。
And now, he's asking me to help some Iraqi that he knew.
现在，他要求我帮助一些他认识的伊拉克人。
And I looked at him, and his eyes glimmer, and he goes, don't worry.
我看着他，他的眼睛闪闪发光，他说，别担心。
It's not like I slept with her or anything.
这不像是我和她睡过什么的。
But see if you can get her help or whatever.
但看看你能否得到她的帮助或其他什么。
That conversation and the sit-down with the State Department's Refugee Bureau happened in the winter of 2007.
那次谈话以及与国务院难民局的会谈发生在 2007 年冬天。
Kirk's conclusion was, well, that didn't work.
柯克的结论是，这行不通。
His next move was more media pressure, some of which was happening on its own.
他的下一步行动是加大媒体压力，其中一些是自行发生的。
George Packer wrote in The New Yorker about Kirk's list and the Iraqis on it.
乔治·帕克在《纽约客》上撰文介绍了柯克的名单以及名单上的伊拉克人。
And Kirk saw that any Iraqis mentioned in Packer's story started moving more quickly through the bureaucracy.
柯克发现帕克故事中提到的任何伊拉克人都开始更快地在官僚机构中移动。
So Kirk spent the next few months trying to get every journalist who asked for an interview to write about a different Iraqi on the list.
因此，柯克在接下来的几个月里试图让每一位要求采访的记者都报道名单上的另一个伊拉克人。
He also talked with more government officials, and a lot of the conversations ended up being variations on the Saigon rooftop man meeting-- people in government who understood how bad the situation was but said to Kirk basically, no, I can't help you.
他还与更多的政府官员进行了交谈，很多谈话最终都变成了西贡屋顶人会议的变体——政府人员了解情况有多糟糕，但基本上对柯克说，不，我帮不了你。
But could you maybe help me?
但你能帮我吗？
He contacted the congressman from his family's district in Illinois.
他联系了他家族所在的伊利诺伊州选区的国会议员。
Rep.
代表。
Peter Roskam-- he's a friend of my dad's, because my dad had been a Republican in Illinois politics for some time.
彼得·罗斯卡姆（Peter Roskam）——他是我父亲的朋友，因为我父亲在伊利诺伊州政坛担任共和党人已有一段时间了。
Kirk says he asked him to cosponsor a piece of legislation that would help Iraqi interpreters, as well as Iraqi Christians who were under attack, and gay Iraqis, who were also being targeted all over the country.
柯克说，他要求他共同发起一项立法，以帮助伊拉克口译员、受到攻击的伊拉克基督徒以及在全国各地都成为攻击目标的伊拉克同性恋者。
And my congressman wouldn't sign on to it, because he didn't believe, out of principle, that gay people should receive any preferential treatment.
我的国会议员不会签署该协议，因为他原则上不认为同性恋者应该受到任何优惠待遇。
And I think it was maybe a month afterwards, his chief of staff started referring names to my list.
我想大概一个月后，他的幕僚长开始将名字提到我的名单上。
I have some of the emails here, if you want, but--
我这里有一些电子邮件，如果你想要的话，但是——
Yeah.
是的。
Kirk Johnson I'll skip the guy's name.
柯克·约翰逊（Kirk Johnson） 我会跳过这个人的名字。
"Kirk, so and so worked with me in Iraq and is now in danger from Iraqi militia organizations.
“柯克，某某人在伊拉克与我一起工作，现在面临伊拉克民兵组织的危险。
Please add her to your list of Iraqis who worked with US forces.
请将她添加到您与美军合作的伊拉克人名单中。
Thanks, period."
谢谢，期间。”
Just out of the blue without any reference to not sponsoring the legislation?
就这么突然，没有提到不支持这项立法吗？
Yeah.
是的。
There's another one.
还有另外一个。
This one was two minutes later.
这是两分钟后的事。
"Kirk, so and so and his wife so and so worked with me in Iraq in '03, '04, '05, and '06.
“柯克，某某和他的妻子某某于 03 年、04 年、05 年和 06 年在伊拉克与我一起工作。
They are now in danger in Iraq for the association with the Americans.
他们现在在伊拉克因与美国人的联系而处于危险之中。
Please add them to your list, period.
请将它们添加到您的列表中。
Thanks, period."
谢谢，期间。”
Kirk realized that in Washington, people had all sorts of reasons not to help him with his list.
柯克意识到，在华盛顿，人们有各种各样的理由不帮助他列出清单。
One was straight up atmospherics, like I mentioned earlier.
正如我之前提到的，其中之一是直接的气氛。
The list was bad news for the Bush administration, a clear indication that the war in Iraq was going terribly.
这份名单对布什政府来说是个坏消息，清楚地表明伊拉克战争正在激烈进行。
And there was a bigger problem.
还有一个更大的问题。
There's no point dancing around the fact that nobody in the State Department or Homeland Security wants their signatures to be on the next 9/11 hijacker's visa.
国务院或国土安全部没有人希望他们的签名出现在下一个 9/11 劫机者的签证上，这一事实毫无意义。
And they've said this to me.
他们对我说过这样的话。
I've gotten phone calls from people high up in State that have said, not everybody agrees with you that it's a good idea to be bringing over a lot of Muslims into the United States now.
我接到州内高层人士的电话，他们说，并不是每个人都同意你现在将大量穆斯林带入美国是个好主意。
That's the gorilla in the room here is that we see these people as potential terrorists.
这就是房间里的大猩猩，我们将这些人视为潜在的恐怖分子。
Even though you're talking about Iraqis who, because they worked for the US in Iraq, had been vetted there.
即使你谈论的是伊拉克人，因为他们在伊拉克为美国工作，所以在那里接受了审查。
Security procedures in order to allow them to work for USAID or [INAUDIBLE]--
允许他们为美国国际开发署工作的安全程序或[听不清]--
You can't ride in a Humvee with Marines without getting screened.
如果没有经过安检，你就不能与海军陆战队员一起乘坐悍马车。
The Iraqis that worked with me, they were all getting polygraph examinations.
和我一起工作的伊拉克人都在接受测谎仪检查。
And I won't try to pull out this card, but I feel like I'm not so naive that-- as someone who spent a fair amount of time in Fallujah, I'm aware that there are bad people in the world.
我不会试图拿出这张卡片，但我觉得我并没有那么天真——作为一个在费卢杰呆过相当长一段时间的人，我知道世界上有坏人。
But the people I'm trying to help, they're actually running from terrorists.
但我试图帮助的人们实际上是在躲避恐怖分子。
One government official told Kirk he couldn't be seen with him, that he was toxic.
一名政府官员告诉柯克，不能看到他和他在一起，因为他有毒。
Later, the man who suggested to Kirk that he should charter a boat and outrun the Coast Guard insisted on meeting with Kirk not in his office but in a sticky-floored bar in Washington at 2:00 in the afternoon.
后来，那个向柯克建议租一艘船并跑得比海岸警卫队还快的人坚持不在他的办公室里与柯克会面，而是在下午 2:00 在华盛顿的一家地板粘乎乎的酒吧里会面。
The most illuminating of these conversations was a bizarre encounter in Geneva, Switzerland.
这些谈话中最具启发性的是在瑞士日内瓦的一次离奇遭遇。
The UN had called a big meeting to talk about Iraqi refugees.
联合国召开了一次大型会议来讨论伊拉克难民问题。
When Kirk arrived, he got a call at his hotel from a US State Department official, a stranger.
当柯克抵达酒店时，他接到美国国务院官员（一位陌生人）打来的电话。
And the man insisted that he had to talk to Kirk, and it had to be in person, and it had to be in secret.
那个人坚持说他必须和柯克谈谈，而且必须是面对面的，而且必须是秘密的。
He told Kirk, there's a bridge near your hotel.
他告诉柯克，你的酒店附近有一座桥。
And I want you to go wait underneath that bridge.
我要你去桥下等。
And I'm going to come up in a sedan with a license plate that ends in the number nine.
我将乘坐一辆车牌以数字 9 结尾的轿车。
And that's how you know it's me.
这就是你知道是我的方式。
And it was right around that time that that Russian dissident had been dosed with polonium.
就在那时，那位俄罗斯持不同政见者被注射了钋。
And I was like, are these my final moments?
我当时想，这是我的最后时刻吗？
They were not his final moments.
这不是他的最后时刻。
The man just drove him to a Chinese restaurant half an hour outside of Geneva in order to give him the names of two Iraqis with yet another cloak and dagger flourish.
该男子刚刚开车送他到日内瓦郊外半小时的一家中餐馆，以便向他提供两名同样披着斗篷和匕首的伊拉克人的名字。
He pulled out a small slip of paper from his pocket, and he put it on the lazy Susan between us and actually rotated the slip of paper to me.
他从口袋里掏出一张小纸条，放在我们中间那个懒洋洋的苏珊身上，然后居然把纸条转给了我。
And I actually recognized the names, because they had just recently been referred to me by another State Department officer.
我实际上认出了这些名字，因为他们最近刚刚被另一位国务院官员介绍给我。
And I looked up, and I said, yeah.
我抬起头，说，是的。
I already have them.
我已经有了。
They're already on the list.
他们已经在名单上了。
And I saw his shoulders relax.
我看到他的肩膀放松了。
And he's just like, oh, thank God.
他就像，哦，感谢上帝。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Thank you.
谢谢。
I'm so glad they're going to be all right.
我很高兴他们会没事的。
And when he said, now they're going to be OK--
当他说，现在他们会好起来的——
Yeah, well-- Nancy Updike How did you react to that in your mind?
是的，嗯——南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike）对此有何反应？
He was handing you this piece of paper as though, oh, now the process is going to happen.
他递给你这张纸，就好像，哦，现在这个过程就要发生了。
But the process wasn't happening.
但这个过程并没有发生。
You hadn't been able to get a single Iraqi into the country yet.
你还没有能够让一个伊拉克人进入这个国家。
No. I remember at one point, I was getting an email every 80 or 90 seconds from a family.
不。我记得有一次，我每 80 或 90 秒就会收到一封来自某个家庭的电子邮件。
And in some sort of overwrought case-- people were referring to me as the Schindler of the Iraqis and all this stuff just because I had a list, but I still had done nothing.
在某种过度紧张的情况下——人们称我为伊拉克人的辛德勒以及所有这些东西，只是因为我有一份清单，但我仍然什么也没做。
In some ways, I saw the list as a drain pipe that everything just sort of tumbled down into it, and people just chucked stuff into it and added names and this kind of thing.
在某些方面，我把这份清单看作是一个排水管，所有东西都掉进了里面，人们只是往里面扔东西，然后添加名字之类的东西。
And I think in some way, it made a lot of people feel-- I think it's still does.
我认为在某种程度上，这让很多人感到——我认为现在仍然如此。
It makes people feel like, oh, God.
这让人们感觉，哦，上帝。
Here's this huge crisis.
这就是这场巨大的危机。
Here's this huge stain on the honor of our country, the abandonment of these people.
这些人被遗弃，这对我们国家的荣誉来说是一个巨大的污点。
But thank God there's this kid with a list.
但感谢上帝，这个孩子有一份清单。
Late spring 2007, Kirk realized there weren't enough journalists to write about everyone on the list.
2007 年春末，柯克意识到没有足够的记者来报道名单上的每个人。
And he still hadn't gotten anyone out of Iraq and to safety, not even the ones who had been written about.
他仍然没有把任何人带出伊拉克并转移到安全地带，甚至包括那些被报道过的人。
They were just moving faster through a process that was opaque.
他们只是在一个不透明的过程中进展得更快。
No way to know for sure if they were two weeks away from an answer or two years.
无法确定他们是否需要两周或两年才能得到答案。
Kirk was still in his aunt's basement, still basically broke.
柯克还在他姨妈的地下室里，基本上还是身无分文。
And the stress of what to do about the ever-increasing list was so relentless that he was getting headaches he couldn't shake for days in a row, grinding his teeth down.
而应对不断增加的清单所带来的压力是如此无情，以至于他连续几天都头痛得无法摆脱，咬牙切齿。
His whole existence was the list.
他的整个存在就是这份清单。
He had no personal life.
他没有个人生活。
Every night, the laptop would be next to me in bed.
每天晚上，笔记本电脑都会放在我床上。
And I'd wake up in the morning with more names to put in and type them into an Excel sheet.
早上醒来时，我会发现更多的名字需要输入，然后将它们输入到 Excel 工作表中。
And then suddenly, there was movement.
突然，有动静。
In the summer of 2007, Kirk and some lawyers officially formed an organization-- the List Project-- recruiting lawyers around the country to work with Iraqis on the list pro bono, helping them navigate the visa process.
2007 年夏天，柯克和一些律师正式成立了一个组织——“名单项目”——在全国各地招募律师，无偿与名单上的伊拉克人合作，帮助他们办理签证流程。
Kirk's friend, the Iraqi USAID colleague whose email had started everything, arrived in the US at the end of the summer with his wife.
柯克的朋友，美国国际开发署的伊拉克同事，他的电子邮件开启了一切，他与妻子于夏末抵达美国。
Kirk's parents in Illinois volunteered to take them in.
柯克在伊利诺伊州的父母自愿收留他们。
And over the next year, Kirk worked with some senators, especially Senator Ted Kennedy, to get a law passed that would create a fast track for these Iraqis to get to the US.
在接下来的一年里，柯克与一些参议员，特别是参议员特德·肯尼迪合作，通过了一项法律，为这些伊拉克人进入美国创造一条快速通道。
Senator Kennedy was like a bulldozer when he got behind an issue.
肯尼迪参议员在处理问题时就像推土机一样。
And he led this effort to create what was called the Refugee Crisis In Iraq Act.
他领导了这项工作，制定了所谓的《伊拉克难民危机法案》。
And what that did was create something called the Special Immigrant Visa for Iraqis, but also for Afghans who worked for us.
这样做的目的是为伊拉克人以及为我们工作的阿富汗人创造一种所谓的特殊移民签证。
And I'll never forget when it passed, because a few of us who had been involved with his office and were in the trenches on this, we were patched in.
我永远不会忘记它什么时候过去的，因为我们中的一些人曾参与过他的办公室，并在这件事上奋战在前线，我们得到了修补。
And we got to talk to Senator Kennedy on the floor of the Senate in the moments after the act passed.
该法案通过后不久，我们就在参议院与肯尼迪参议员进行了交谈。
And it had all of this bipartisan support.
它得到了两党的所有支持。
Senator Brownback and Lugar and Senator Obama and Hillary Clinton were on it.
参议员布朗巴克和卢格以及参议员奥巴马和希拉里·克林顿都参与其中。
And amazingly, it created 25,000 visa slots for Iraqis who worked for the Americans.
令人惊讶的是，它为为美国人工作的伊拉克人创造了 25,000 个签证名额。
Over the course of five years-- 5,000 a year, right?
五年来——每年 5,000 个，对吧？
Exactly.
确切地。
But at that time when it passed, I had maybe-- I don't know-- 1,200 names on my list.
但当它过去的时候，我的名单上可能有——我不知道——1,200 个名字。
And I just remembered, after I hung up with Kennedy, collapsing on the couch and truly feeling like it was over.
我只记得，挂断肯尼迪的电话后，我瘫倒在沙发上，真的感觉一切都结束了。
Even if every one of my Iraqis took one of those visas-- the Iraqis on my list, I mean, there would still be tons left over for the others.
即使我的每一个伊拉克人都获得了其中一个签证——我的意思是，我名单上的伊拉克人，仍然会有大量的签证留给其他人。
And it was suddenly this-- it worked.
突然之间——它起作用了。
We agitated, and now there's a new law.
我们很激动，现在有了新的法律。
But members of the Bush administration had opposed the bill, and a year after it was enacted, only 172 Iraqis who'd worked with the US got in through the new, supposedly speedy Special Immigrant Visa program-- 172 out of a possible 5,000.
但布什政府的成员反对该法案，法案颁布一年后，只有 172 名曾在美国工作过的伊拉克人通过新的、据称速度很快的特殊移民签证计划获得批准——在可能的 5,000 人中只有 172 人。
That legislation was basically killed by Bush administration lawyers who found any kind of vague language in it to produce a very narrow, consular interpretation so that not many Iraqis who worked for us would be construed as eligible.
这项立法基本上被布什政府的律师们否决了，他们发现其中任何含糊的语言都会产生非常狭隘的领事解释，这样为我们工作的伊拉克人就不会被视为有资格。
Under this narrow, consular interpretation, some Iraqis found out that they didn't qualify for a Special Immigrant Visa, because they had worked under a grant or a cooperative agreement rather than a contract, even though these were three different names for what amounted to the same thing.
根据这种狭隘的领事解释，一些伊拉克人发现他们没有资格获得特殊移民签证，因为他们是在赠款或合作协议而不是合同下工作的，尽管这是同一件事的三个不同名称。
And for Iraqis who were eligible, there were delays, new choke points in the process.
对于符合资格的伊拉克人来说，这一过程出现了延误和新的瓶颈。
It's hard, because as we're speaking, I'm looking at a countdown now of a few months left when the five years are up.
这很难，因为当我们说话时，我正在看着五年期结束后还剩下几个月的倒计时。
And it's going to expire.
而且它即将过期。
And out of the 25,000 slots, there's something like 18,000 that are still unused.
在 25,000 个插槽中，大约有 18,000 个插槽尚未使用。
In March of this year, 19 members of Congress sent a letter to the Secretaries of State and Defense and the Department of Homeland Security saying that only 22% of the available Iraqi SIVs had been given out-- 5,500 visas out of a possible 25,000.
今年 3 月，19 名国会议员致函国务卿、国防部长和国土安全部，称伊拉克 SIV 中只发放了 22%，即 25,000 个签证中的 5,500 个。
Nancy Updike.
南希·厄普代克。
She'll be back with Kirk Johnson in the second half of our show.
她将在节目后半段与柯克·约翰逊一起回归。
Coming up, how you can provide two letters of recommendation, three certificates of merit, one work contract, an employment verification letter, and a federal contract number, plus four phone numbers and one email address for your old bosses, and that is still simply not enough proof of employment for the bureaucrats who are asking you for proof of employment before issuing the paperwork that will get you out of Iraq and save your life.
接下来，你如何提供两封推荐信、三份优点证书、一份工作合同、一份就业证明信和一个联邦合同号码，再加上你的前老板的四个电话号码和一个电子邮件地址，这对于那些在签发文件之前要求你提供就业证明的官僚来说仍然是不够的就业证明，这些文件将使你离开伊拉克并挽救你的生命。
That is all in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将立即报道这些内容。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today's program, "Taking Names," the story of Kirk Johnson's seven-year attempt to save the lives of Iraqis who worked with US forces during the war there.
今天的节目《点名》讲述了柯克·约翰逊七年来为拯救战争期间与美军合作的伊拉克人的生命而做出的努力。
In this half of the show, to get a better sense of what is broken about our process for bringing these Iraqis into the United States, Nancy Updike looks at one guy.
在节目的这一半部分，为了更好地了解我们将这些伊拉克人带入美国的过程中出现了什么问题，南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike）看着一个人。
And though this guy seems to perfectly qualify for the Special Immigrant Visa program, the SIV program, which was created by law in 2008 specifically for Iraqis who worked with the US government in Iraq and whose lives are in danger as a result, this guy was not applying under that program, either because he didn't know that it existed or because he heard it was all jammed up, and going another way would be quicker or allow him to bring in more relatives.
尽管这个人似乎完全有资格申请特殊移民签证计划，即SIV计划，该计划是2008年根据法律专门为那些在伊拉克与美国政府合作并因此而面临生命危险的伊拉克人制定的，但这个人并没有根据该计划进行申请，要么是因为他不知道该计划的存在，要么是因为他听说该计划都被堵住了，而走另一条路会更快，或者可以让他带更多的亲戚。
That is not unusual, Kirk Johnson says.
柯克·约翰逊说，这并不罕见。
Instead, he's applying through a different program-- something called the United States Refugee Admissions Program-- USRAP.
相反，他通过一个不同的计划进行申请——称为美国难民接纳计划（USRAP）。
This process involves the State Department and Homeland Security to make sure that we're not allowing terrorists into the country.
这一过程涉及国务院和国土安全部，以确保我们不会允许恐怖分子进入该国。
There's also an organization that does some overseas visa processing for the State Department called IOM.
还有一个为国务院处理海外签证事宜的组织，称为国际移民组织 (IOM)。
That's the International Organization for Migration.
这就是国际移民组织。
So I'm just saying all this to say you're going to be hearing a bunch of acronyms-- IOM and USRAP.
所以我说这一切只是为了告诉你，你将会听到一堆缩写词——IOM 和 USRAP。
That's basically what they are.
他们基本上就是这样。
It's these bureaucracies.
就是这些官僚机构。
Anyway, here's Nancy.
不管怎样，南希来了。
A few months ago, Kirk sent me the draft of a book he's writing about all this.
几个月前，柯克给我寄了一本他正在写的关于这一切的书的草稿。
And the last chapter is about a case that's still going on now.
最后一章是关于一个现在仍在进行的案件。
That's the case I'm going to talk about.
我要讲的就是这种情况。
It was sent to the List Project a year ago in July of 2012.
一年前的 2012 年 7 月，它被发送到 List Project。
When Kirk got the email, he didn't know anything about it.
当柯克收到这封电子邮件时，他对此一无所知。
It was just a zip file full of documents, and he started printing them and laying them all out.
这只是一个装满文档的 zip 文件，他开始打印它们并把它们全部放在一起。
I started with my kitchen table.
我从厨房的桌子开始。
When that filled up from all the pages laid out, I pulled some chairs up and used the chairs.
当所有页面都填满后，我拉了一些椅子并使用了这些椅子。
And then I started running this paper trail along the floor.
然后我开始沿着地板记录纸迹。
You were trying to line everything up in chronological order?
你试图按时间顺序排列所有内容？
Exactly.
确切地。
But I'm basically looking at a dead man's attempt to get a visa.
但我基本上是在关注一个死人试图获得签证的情况。
The documents are a back and forth between this one Iraqi man and the bureaucracies processing his refugee application.
这些文件是这名伊拉克男子与处理他的难民申请的官僚机构之间的来回文件。
His first email goes like this.
他的第一封电子邮件是这样的。
Kirk's translating it from Arabic.
柯克从阿拉伯语翻译过来。
"Greetings to those of you working in the immigration office.
“向在移民办公室工作的各位问好。
I ask your help in considering my request.
我请求您帮助考虑我的请求。
I need a speedy solution to my situation, which is filled with persistent threats.
我需要快速解决我的处境，因为我的处境充满了持续的威胁。
People want to kill me because I worked for the US Army.
人们想杀我，因为我为美国陆军工作。
Please help me come to America.
请帮助我来美国。
Attached are some of the certificates and records of my work.
附上我的一些工作证明和记录。
Gratefully."
非常感谢。”
And in the book, I call him Omar.
在书中，我称他为奥马尔。
But that's not his real name.
但这不是他的真名。
So he applied on June 28.
于是他于6月28日提出申请。
And their reply on October 9, 2011, was this.
他们在 2011 年 10 月 9 日的回复是这样的。
"Dear applicant, please be informed that your application is in process, but we still need a valid official email address for a supervisor or HR officer who can identify you and verify your employment and a copy of the contract between your company of employment and the US government.
“尊敬的申请人，请注意，您的申请正在处理中，但我们仍然需要主管或人力资源官员的有效官方电子邮件地址，以便能够识别您的身份并验证您的就业情况，以及您的就业公司与美国政府之间的合同副本。
Please reply directly to this email, and do not change the subject line.
请直接回复此电子邮件，不要更改主题行。
Thank you."
谢谢你。”
In this exchange, Omar is providing six documents that corroborate his work for the United States, including contact information for American supervisors.
在这次交流中，奥马尔提供了六份文件来证实他在美国的工作，包括美国监管机构的联系信息。
He included copies of two contracts he'd had for projects overseen by Parsons, which is an American company.
他附上了两份他为帕森斯公司（一家美国公司）监督的项目签订的合同副本。
And there was a recommendation letter from the US Army.
还有一封来自美国陆军的推荐信。
He'd worked for them as a forklift operator.
他曾为他们担任叉车操作员。
So here in front of me is a certificate of appreciation from the Department of the Army.
摆在我面前的是陆军部颁发的感谢状。
"Your dedicated service to the US is appreciated and will not be forgotten." October 2009 to October 2010-- and then it's got the names of his supervisors.
“你们对美国的奉献精神值得赞赏，我们不会忘记。” 2009年10月到2010年10月——然后是他的主管的名字。
There were two more Army recommendation letters along with that one.
除了那一封之外，还有两封陆军推荐信。
And among the three, there were the names and signatures of six different US Army officers.
而这三人之中，有六名不同的美国陆军军官的名字和签名。
There was also a letter from Parsons, the American company that oversaw the projects he worked for.
还有一封来自帕森斯公司的信，这家美国公司负责监督他所工作的项目。
"Parsons would be pleased to answer any questions concerning his employment.
“帕森斯很乐意回答有关他就业的任何问题。
Contact can be made with the undersigned." And then they gave two phone numbers there.
可以与以下签名者联系。”然后他们给了两个电话号码。
This one here, this is one that also even says the exact long contract number that he worked under, the federal contract number.
这里，这个甚至还写着他所工作的确切长合同号，联邦合同号。
Again, at the bottom of this one, there's a Staff Sergeant signature, his DSN number, his phone number, and his Army email address.
同样，在这张照片的底部，有一个上士签名、他的 DSN 号码、他的电话号码和他的陆军电子邮件地址。
But in spite of all these documents and all this information, it seems clear from the emails that follow that the bureaucracies involved don't think that Omar has provided exactly the information they want-- a valid official email address for a supervisor-- even though they have four phone numbers for different supervisors and the official Army email address for one of Omar's supervisors.
但尽管有所有这些文件和所有这些信息，从随后的电子邮件中似乎可以清楚地看出，所涉及的官僚机构并不认为奥马尔提供了他们想要的信息——一个主管的有效官方电子邮件地址——尽管他们有不同主管的四个电话号码以及奥马尔一位主管的陆军官方电子邮件地址。
If they found that email address to be invalid for some reason, they don't make that clear to Omar.
如果他们发现该电子邮件地址由于某种原因无效，他们不会向奥马尔明确说明。
In the end of December-- actually the last day of the year, December 31, 2011-- at 9:46 AM, he sent a short note saying, "Peace and respect for everyone who works in your office.
12 月底——实际上是一年的最后一天，即 2011 年 12 月 31 日——上午 9:46，他发了一条短信说：“祝在你办公室工作的每个人平安并受到尊重。
My brothers, I wonder if there's any news that you might share with me.
兄弟们，不知道你们有什么消息可以分享给我吗？
What's the latest with my case?
我的案件最新进展如何？
With great thanks, Omar."
非常感谢，奥马尔。”
So the war has officially ended.
至此，战争正式结束。
The troops have fully pulled out.
部队已全部撤出。
The base that he was working on doesn't exist anymore.
他所工作的基地已经不存在了。
Four days pass, and the State Department writes him back at 3:50 PM on January 4.
四天过去了，国务院于 1 月 4 日下午 3:50 给他回信。
It says, "Dear sir/ma'am, we have checked your case and found that it's in processing pending verifying your employment.
上面写着：“亲爱的先生/女士，我们已经检查了您的案件，发现该案件正在处理中，等待核实您的就业情况。
Please note that once you are scheduled for an interview, you'll be contacted.
请注意，一旦安排面试，我们就会与您联系。
Your patience does assist us in accelerating the process," which is a common phrase that I see all over the place, this strange notion that if they're just patient, things will speed up.
你们的耐心确实有助于我们加快这一进程。”这是我随处可见的一句常见短语，这种奇怪的想法是，如果他们有耐心，事情就会加快。
It's not true.
这不是真的。
Not only was the process not on the verge of accelerating, Omar was trying to get out during a period when US officials admit that refugee processing for Iraqis had ground almost to a halt.
这一进程不仅没有加速，而且在美国官员承认对伊拉克难民的处理几乎停止的时期，奥马尔还试图离开。
It stayed slow for over a year.
一年多以来，它一直保持缓慢状态。
The US was beefing up its security screening procedures, because two Iraqis in Kentucky had been arrested and charged with sending money and weapons to al-Qaeda in Iraq.
美国正在加强安全检查程序，因为肯塔基州的两名伊拉克人被捕，并被指控向伊拉克基地组织输送金钱和武器。
The two guys in Kentucky had never worked for the United States, like Omar had.
肯塔基州的这两个人从未像奥马尔那样为美国工作过。
They hadn't gotten into the US based on American military or civilian supervisors vouching for them in writing, the kind of letters Omar had.
他们进入美国的依据并不是美国军事或文职监管人员以书面形式为他们提供担保，就像奥马尔拥有的那种信件一样。
Omar was a different kind of case altogether.
奥马尔则完全是另一种情况。
But he was Iraqi.
但他是伊拉克人。
The next email that he wrote to the State Department-- this is February 16, 2012.
他写给国务院的下一封电子邮件是 2012 年 2 月 16 日。
I have all of these emails, but this one was the only one that was all in red.
我有所有这些电子邮件，但这一封是唯一一封全是红色的。
He had changed the font color.
他改变了字体颜色。
He says, "Peace and respect to you all.
他说：“祝大家和平并受到尊重。
I'd like to explain some of the critical developments that have happened to me in Kirkuk.
我想解释一下我在基尔库克发生的一些重要事态发展。
I feel that I'm in a very critical situation.
我觉得我的处境非常危急。
My security isn't good, and I'm seeking your guidance.
我的安全状况不佳，我正在寻求您的指导。
I fear for my life, the life of my family, and I'm asking for you to help me by transferring my case to a neighboring country.
我担心我的生命和家人的生命，我请求你帮助我，将我的案件转移到邻国。
If you were able to transfer my file to Turkey, then my family and I will go to finish the visa process there.
如果您能够将我的文件转移到土耳其，那么我和我的家人将去那里完成签证程序。
I await your speedy reply, God willing."
我等待你的迅速答复，上帝保佑。”
He's clearly trying to escalate the situation here and offering to flee to another country if--
他显然是在试图使这里的局势升级，并提出逃往另一个国家，如果——
If that'll speed things up.
如果这能加快速度的话。
Kirk Johnson Right.
柯克·约翰逊 对。
The next email back to Omar had a new paragraph that Kirk had seen in emails to other Iraqis and that would turn up again and again in Omar's case.
下一封发给奥马尔的电子邮件中有一个新段落，柯克在发给其他伊拉克人的电子邮件中看到过，并且在奥马尔的案例中会一次又一次地出现。
"Please note that you have to provide us with different contact info--" and then this is all in bold-- "official email address for a supervisor or HR officer who can identify you and verify your employment.
“请注意，您必须向我们提供不同的联系信息——”然后全部以粗体显示——“主管或人力资源官员的官方电子邮件地址，他们可以识别您的身份并验证您的就业情况。
Once we receive this, we will proceed with your case.
一旦我们收到此信息，我们将继续处理您的案件。
Kind regards."
亲切的问候。”
And this is where-- I had a wrestling match with the publisher, because in the initial submission of my book, I put the entire back and forth-- and it was 60 pages long-- because I wanted them to see how many times the exact same reply came back where they kept saying, please note that you have to provide us with different contact info.
这就是我和出版商进行了一场摔跤比赛的地方，因为在我的书最初提交时，我把整个书来回写了一遍——它有 60 页长——因为我想让他们看到有多少次完全相同的回复出现在他们一直说的地方，请注意，你必须向我们提供不同的联系信息。
Omar didn't write back saying, "I don't understand what's wrong with the contact information I already gave you.
奥马尔没有回信说：“我不明白我已经给你的联系信息有什么问题。
Please explain that to me so I know what to do." And the bureaucracy he's writing to is churning through about 500 new applicants a week in a system that operates like a customer service center for a credit card or phone company.
请向我解释一下，以便我知道该怎么做。”他写信给的官僚机构每周都会处理大约 500 名新申请者，其运作方式类似于信用卡或电话公司的客户服务中心。
Emails are answered in the order in which they're received by whichever employee is free to answer them, which means that one applicant might get emails from half a dozen different employees.
电子邮件按照由可以自由回复的员工收到的顺序进行回复，这意味着一名申请人可能会收到来自六位不同员工的电子邮件。
Finally, Omar asks a cousin in the United States to please track down one of his old supervisors and get new contact information.
最后，奥马尔请求一位在美国的表弟找到他的一位旧主管并获得新的联系信息。
And then in the chronology of documents, there's a death threat against Omar.
然后在文件年表中，有针对奥马尔的死亡威胁。
It's attached to his email.
它附在他的电子邮件中。
It's got a seal and a date on it.
上面有印章和日期。
From the Lightning Brigade of Ansar al-Sunna, which is-- we know them to be an al-Qaeda affiliate in Iraq.
来自安萨尔·逊纳的闪电旅，我们知道他们是伊拉克基地组织的附属机构。
This is now several months after the war is over.
现在已经是战争结束几个月后的事了。
Omar is not working for the Americans anymore.
奥马尔不再为美国人工作了。
The Americans are gone.
美国人走了。
But this militia didn't care.
但这支民兵并不在意。
An excerpt from the letter that I translated says, "To the atheist agent Omar, you are warned that if you do not accept the orders of the mujahideen by leaving your work with the American forces, your work as a spy-- we have warned you many times before, but you did not heed them.
我翻译的信中的一段话这样说：“致无神论特工奥马尔，我警告你，如果你不接受圣战者的命令，离开你在美国军队的工作，你作为间谍的工作——我们之前已经警告过你很多次了，但你没有听从。
Nor did you return to the correct path.
也没有回到正确的道路上。
So we, the army of Ansar al-Sunna in Iraq, have decided to carry out the punishment of execution if you do not leave your work."
因此，我们伊拉克逊尼派辅士军队决定，如果你不离开工作岗位，就会执行死刑。”
So he's caught, and there's two bureaucracies.
所以他被抓住了，而且有两个官僚机构。
There's a bureaucracy of a militant organization that's sending him their outdated threat email, which is saying, you have to leave your job, that he's already out of, or we're going to kill you.
有一个激进组织的官僚机构正在向他发送过时的威胁电子邮件，内容是说，你必须离开你的工作，他已经离开了，否则我们会杀了你。
And then there's also this bureaucracy saying, you have to send us more information that he's already sent them.
然后还有这个官僚机构说，你必须向我们发送更多他已经发送给他们的信息。
Our bureaucracy doesn't know if he worked for us.
我们的官僚机构不知道他是否为我们工作。
And their bureaucracy is certain that he did, but they don't realize that we're gone.
他们的官僚机构确信他做到了，但他们没有意识到我们已经走了。
We showed this threat letter to three Iraqi translators with experience reading death threats from different Iraqi militias.
我们向三位具有阅读不同伊拉克民兵死亡威胁经验的伊拉克翻译展示了这封威胁信。
And they disagreed about its authenticity.
他们对其真实性意见不一。
One translator pointed out that the death threat had the same kinds of grammatical errors that Omar's emails and later his brother's emails did, so we can't be sure it's real.
一位翻译指出，死亡威胁与奥马尔的电子邮件以及后来他兄弟的电子邮件存在同样的语法错误，因此我们无法确定它是真的。
Whether or not it was real, Omar at this point fled to Turkey with the idea of finding an apartment and a job and then bringing his family.
不管这是否真实，奥马尔此时逃到了土耳其，他的想法是找到一套公寓和一份工作，然后带着家人一起去。
But he couldn't get permission to work in Turkey, so he went back to Iraq and started moving his family from house to house, hiding.
但他无法获得在土耳其工作的许可，因此他回到了伊拉克，开始与家人一起挨家挨户地躲藏起来。
Finally, his cousin in America did track down new contact information for one of his American bosses, a guy from Parsons.
最后，他在美国的表弟确实找到了他的一位来自帕森斯的美国老板的新联系信息。
And on April 5, nine months after Omar's first email, the US State Department contacted Omar's former boss.
4 月 5 日，即奥马尔发出第一封电子邮件九个月后，美国国务院联系了奥马尔的前老板。
Exactly 25 minutes later, at 11:47 AM, Omar's old boss at Parsons says, "Yes, I remember him to the best of my knowledge, and attached is further reference.
整整 25 分钟后，上午 11:47，奥马尔在帕森斯的前老板说：“是的，据我所知，我记得他，并附上进一步的参考资料。
I hope this is sufficient." And he included this letter, where he said, "To whom it may concern, it's my pleasure to provide reference for Omar.
我希望这已经足够了。”他附上了这封信，他在信中说：“对于可能关心的人，我很高兴为奥马尔提供参考。
His performance working as a maintenance and laborer for the Parsons-Iraq joint venture was outstanding.
他在帕森斯-伊拉克合资企业担任维修工和劳工时表现出色。
I knew Omar for more than two years of my capacity as a materials logistics manager, around May 2004 to August 10 of 2006.
我在担任材料物流经理期间认识奥马尔已有两年多了，时间大约为 2004 年 5 月至 2006 年 8 月 10 日。
He was an extremely positive asset as to our endeavors while in Iraq.
对于我们在伊拉克的努力来说，他是一个非常积极的资产。
If I can be of any further assistance or provide you with any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me."
如果我可以为您提供任何进一步的帮助或为您提供任何进一步的信息，请随时与我联系。”
He's got his office number, cellphone, email address, and it's on official Parsons letterhead.
他有他的办公室号码、手机、电子邮件地址，而且都印在帕森斯官方信笺上。
When I saw this, this seems like-- I was relieved when I saw this, because until this point, when I first looked at this case, I didn't know how the story ended.
当我看到这个的时候，这似乎——当我看到这个的时候，我松了口气，因为直到此时，当我第一次看到这个案子时，我还不知道这个故事是如何结束的。
I just thought that this was another typical case of the process dragging on for somebody, and maybe they needed our help to nudge it forward.
我只是认为这是另一个典型的拖延过程的案例，也许他们需要我们的帮助来推动它前进。
So I was getting anxious until I saw this letter.
所以我很着急，直到我看到这封信。
And I was like, this is great.
我当时想，这太棒了。
Everything's on official letterhead.
一切都在官方信笺上。
It's directly to people that I know in the State Department that are all cc'ed on this email.
直接发送给我在国务院认识的人，他们都抄送了这封电子邮件。
Omar got an email back saying, "We got the contact information you sent, and we'll be in touch." Omar wrote back immediately.
奥马尔收到一封回复电子邮件，内容是：“我们收到了您发送的联系信息，我们会与您联系。”奥马尔立即回信。
Kind of a hopeful but still desperate email.
一封充满希望但仍然绝望的电子邮件。
He says, "Peace and greetings, my brothers.
他说：“祝你平安，我的兄弟们。
Now that you have the official email address, I'm wondering whether my file might be transferred to Jordan.
现在您已经有了官方电子邮件地址，我想知道我的文件是否可以转移到约旦。
Are there any steps left that I need to do?
我还需要执行任何步骤吗？
I need resolution.
我需要决心。
Time is passing here.
时间在这里流逝。
I don't own anything.
我什么都不拥有。
I don't work.
我不工作。
I'm moving from house to house, from here to there.
我从一个房子搬到另一个房子，从这里搬到那里。
I beg you to find a solution.
我恳求你找到解决办法。
Please call me."
请给我打电话。”
Next email-- this is dated April 17.
下一封电子邮件——日期为 4 月 17 日。
This is less than 10 days after they told him that they had received the employment letter.
这距离他们告诉他收到聘书还不到10天。
On April 17, 1:41 PM, they sent Omar this letter.
4 月 17 日下午 1:41，他们向奥马尔发送了这封信。
"Dear sir, thank you for your email.
“亲爱的先生，谢谢您的电子邮件。
We have checked your case and found that it's in processing your employment verification." I'm reading this exactly as it's written.
我们已经检查了您的案件，发现正在处理您的就业证明。”我正在读这篇文章，正如它所写的那样。
"Please understand that the process is lengthy and might need a long period of time.
“请理解，这个过程是漫长的，可能需要很长时间。
Your patience does assist us in accelerating the process.
您的耐心确实有助于我们加快这一进程。
Since your employment has been verified yet, you aren't advised to transfer your case to Jordan.
由于您的就业尚未得到核实，因此不建议您将案件转移到约旦。
Kind regards."
亲切的问候。”
If you, as an American, can tell me what that means-- those sentences together-- I'd love to know.
如果你，作为一个美国人，能告诉我这意味着什么——这些句子在一起——我很想知道。
But it's like asking Siri to save your life or something.
但这就像要求 Siri 拯救你的生命或其他什么。
You're talking to a robot that seems incapable of learning, much less giving you a visa.
你正在与一个似乎无法学习的机器人交谈，更不用说给你签证了。
As April turned into May, he kept sending them emails telling them, "I'm in real danger here.
从四月到五月，他不断给他们发电子邮件，告诉他们：“我在这里真的很危险。
I've received another new death threat.
我又收到了新的死亡威胁。
I carry the letter with me, which I can send to you or bring with me when you interview me.
我随身带着这封信，我可以把它寄给你，也可以在你采访我时随身携带。
I'm waiting for your call." And then he puts, like, six exclamation marks at the end of that.
我在等你的电话。”然后他在末尾加上了六个感叹号。
Again, the death threat was included in the documents.
文件中再次包含了死亡威胁。
And our translator raised the same questions about this one as with the earlier one.
我们的翻译对这个问题提出了与前一个问题相同的问题。
Seven weeks after that, after the State Department's employment verification unit received the verification letter from his boss, Omar again receives an email that says-- this is on May 22, 2012.
七周后，国务院就业核查部门收到上司的核查信后，奥马尔再次收到一封电子邮件，上面写着——这是2012年5月22日。
"Dear sir or madam, please note that we are unable to verify your employment.
“尊敬的先生或女士，请注意，我们无法核实您的就业情况。
Kindly provide us with different contact info, official email address for a supervisor or HR officer who can identify you and verify your employment.
请向我们提供不同的联系信息、主管或人力资源官员的官方电子邮件地址，以便他们可以识别您的身份并验证您的就业情况。
Please reply to this email, and do not change the subject line.
请回复此电子邮件，不要更改主题行。
Kind regards."
亲切的问候。”
It's like they've gone back to the beginning.
他们就像回到了最初的地方。
Right.
正确的。
This is the last round of correspondence, because less than two weeks later, on June 9, Omar gets a phone call.
这是最后一轮通信，因为不到两周后，即 6 月 9 日，奥马尔接到电话。
His wife said that he took the call in the other room, spoke for a couple minutes, and then came back in.
他的妻子说，他在另一个房间接了电话，说了几分钟，然后又回来了。
They were still sitting around the kitchen table.
他们仍然围坐在厨房的桌子旁。
He told his wife that he needed to step outside but that he was going to come back soon.
他告诉妻子他需要出去一趟，但很快就会回来。
Omar's decapitated body was found later that night.
当晚晚些时候，奥马尔被斩首的尸体被发现。
That's what Omar's widow told the List Project.
这是奥马尔的遗孀告诉《名单项目》的。
His death certificate is the next one in the chronology of documents.
他的死亡证明是文件年表中的下一份。
It's hard to read through this correspondence and not have questions at the end.
读完这封信后很难不产生疑问。
What happened here?
这里发生了什么？
Is this systemic incompetence?
这是系统性的无能吗？
Is this one anomalous tragic screw up?
这是一场异常的悲剧性失误吗？
Is it part of some deliberate attempt to stall Iraqi applicants?
这是故意拖延伊拉克申请人的行为吗？
The State Department doesn't comment on specific cases, but I talked to an official in the State Department's Refugee Bureau and asked whether they think the current process is functioning fine or has significant problems.
国务院不对具体案件发表评论，但我与国务院难民局的一位官员进行了交谈，并询问他们是否认为当前程序运行良好或存在重大问题。
The official didn't want to be named but said, quote, "I don't think the processing part of this is broken at all.
这位不愿透露姓名的官员表示，“我认为这个处理部分根本没有损坏。
I think there are unfortunate cases where it doesn't work.
我认为在某些不幸的情况下它不起作用。
But looking at it as a whole, I think it's not something we can say is broken, because I've seen too many successes.
但从整体来看，我认为这并不能说是坏的，因为我看到了太多的成功。
More than 90,000 Iraqis have been able to come to the US through the SIV and refugee programs and start new lives," unquote.
超过 90,000 名伊拉克人已经能够通过 SIV 和难民计划来到美国并开始新的生活，”引述道。
That 90,000 is such a big number because it's counting all Iraqis who have come to America since 2007.
这 9 万人是一个很大的数字，因为它计算了自 2007 年以来来到美国的所有伊拉克人。
Iraqis who worked with the US are a small subset of that number, around 17,000.
与美国合作的伊拉克人只是这个数字中的一小部分，大约有 17,000 人。
Another State Department official said, quote, "There is no policy to slow down the refugee or SIV process.
另一位国务院官员表示，“没有任何政策可以减缓难民或重要投资工具的进程。
Quite the opposite.
恰恰相反。
Overall processing times have improved significantly in the past year," unquote.
去年总体处理时间显着缩短，”引述。
But the government won't disclose how many Iraqis who worked with the US, who qualify for fast track processing, have applied to get in or how long they've been waiting.
但政府不会透露有多少与美国合作、有资格获得快速通道处理的伊拉克人已经申请入境，也没有透露他们已经等待了多长时间。
Kirk's list alone has 1,500 people on it, and his organization is just one of several that does this work.
仅柯克的名单上就有 1,500 人，而他的组织只是从事这项工作的几个组织之一。
As the Iraq War was ending, Kirk met with White House officials to push a plan that would deal all at once with all of the Iraqis who had worked for the US and wanted to come here.
伊拉克战争即将结束时，柯克会见了白宫官员，推动一项计划，该计划将一次性解决所有曾为美国工作并想来这里的伊拉克人的问题。
The plan was that President Obama could issue an executive order and put the Iraqis on airplanes and fly them to a secure military base outside the continental United States-- Guam, for instance.
该计划是，奥巴马总统可以发布一项行政命令，将伊拉克人送上飞机，并将他们送往美国大陆以外的安全军事基地，例如关岛。
At the base, they could be screened as thoroughly as they needed to be to keep the US safe.
在基地，可以对他们进行尽可能彻底的筛查，以确保美国的安全。
And at the same time, they would be safe.
同时，他们也会安全。
This was not a new idea.
这并不是什么新想法。
We'd done it before several times in similar situations.
我们以前曾在类似情况下做过几次。
It's what we call the Guam Option.
这就是我们所说的关岛选项。
And we flew 7,000 Iraqis out of northern Iraq in '96.
96 年，我们从伊拉克北部空运了 7,000 名伊拉克人。
In two weeks, we flew 7,000 out directly to Guam.
两周内，我们将 7,000 架飞机直接飞往关岛。
And the average processing time there was 90 days.
平均处理时间为 90 天。
And those Iraqis are all Americans now.
那些伊拉克人现在都是美国人了。
In '99, we flew 12,000 Kosovar Albanians directly to Fort Dix.
99 年，我们将 12,000 名科索沃阿尔巴尼亚人直接飞往迪克斯堡。
When we did do the evacuation of the boat people from Vietnam, we used Guam and these other bases.
当我们从越南撤离船民时，我们使用了关岛和其他基地。
Guam can hold something like 24,000 refugees at any point in time.
关岛在任何时候都可以容纳大约 24,000 名难民。
There were tools on the table that could have stopped all of this.
桌子上有一些工具可以阻止这一切。
It just can't happen without the presidential order, because it requires the military with all of its power to do the initial bit of heavy lifting, to save the lives of these high-priority refugees and bring them to a secure location so that State and Homeland Security and others can do the screening.
如果没有总统命令，这一切就不可能发生，因为它需要军队全力以赴完成最初的繁重工作，拯救这些高度优先难民的生命，并将他们带到安全的地方，以便国家和国土安全部以及其他机构可以进行筛查。
I went and spoke before Congress and spoke specifically on this.
我去国会演讲并专门谈到了这一点。
We got a bill passed that instructed the White House and their agencies to produce planning and to start contingency planning.
我们通过了一项法案，指示白宫及其机构制定计划并启动应急计划。
And at every step of the way, they just ignored all of this and said, they're going to be fine.
在每一步中，他们都忽略了这一切，并说，他们会没事的。
These Iraqis, like Omar, are going to be fine.
这些伊拉克人，比如奥马尔，不会有事的。
We're not going to do a Guam Option.
我们不会采取关岛选项。
And I used to be able to go to the White House and push this.
我曾经能够去白宫推动这一点。
And I can't now.
而我现在不能。
They don't let me anymore.
他们不再让我了。
But the thing that's exasperating about all this is it didn't need to happen.
但令人恼火的是，这一切本来是不必要发生的。
And it's not that I'm some super rosy-eyed kid that doesn't understand anymore what other options are on the table.
这并不是说我是一个超级红眼睛的孩子，不再明白桌面上还有什么其他选择。
There are tools.
有工具。
And so even when the Brits left, they did an airlift.
因此，即使英国人离开后，他们也进行了空运。
They put their Iraqi employees directly on planes and flew them to Oxfordshire to an RAF base there.
他们将伊拉克员工直接送上飞机，飞往牛津郡的英国皇家空军基地。
Australians airlifted out all of their Iraqis.
澳大利亚人空运了所有伊拉克人。
Denmark airlifted out all of their Iraqis in a single night, Poland the same.
丹麦一夜之间空运了所有伊拉克人，波兰也是如此。
Kirk says the last time he was at the White House was November 2011.
柯克说他最后一次去白宫是 2011 年 11 月。
The thing that I remember from that meeting was-- there were List Project lawyers there as well.
我从那次会议中记得的是——那里也有名单项目的律师。
An NSC-- a National Security Council-- official walked up to one of our lawyers.
一名国家安全委员会（NSC）官员走到我们的一位律师面前。
And they said to us, we understand that the Iraqis on your list have a subjective fear.
他们对我们说，我们知道名单上的伊拉克人有主观恐惧。
But there's no objective basis for them to be afraid anymore.
但他们不再害怕的客观依据已经没有了。
And Omar died a few months later.
几个月后奥马尔去世了。
It still sits in me like a splinter, because that's coming from the White House.
它仍然像一根碎片一样留在我心里，因为那是来自白宫的。
For the United States, the Iraq War ended a long time ago.
对于美国来说，伊拉克战争早已结束。
Inside Iraq, no one has forgotten who they hated or who hated them.
在伊拉克境内，没有人忘记他们恨谁或谁恨他们。
Scores are still being settled all over the country.
全国各地的比分仍在结算中。
Hundreds of people are dying every month in bombings and shootings.
每个月都有数百人死于爆炸和枪击事件。
And militants still target Iraqis who worked for the US.
武装分子仍然以为美国工作的伊拉克人为目标。
When I interviewed Kirk, it was two and a half weeks after the Boston Marathon bombing.
当我采访柯克时，波士顿马拉松爆炸事件发生两周半后。
He had been working for months with some senators, including Senator John McCain, trying to extend the Special Immigrant Visa program for Iraqis so it won't expire this year.
几个月来，他一直在与包括参议员约翰·麦凯恩在内的一些参议员合作，试图延长针对伊拉克人的特殊移民签证计划，使其不会在今年到期。
And I asked him if he was worried that the bombers being Muslim would scuttle the legislation.
我问他是否担心炸弹袭击者是穆斯林会破坏立法。
Yeah.
是的。
I don't know.
我不知道。
It pisses me off.
这让我很生气。
I live in Boston.
我住在波士顿。
I walk down that street all the time.
我一直走在那条街上。
But they weren't Iraqis.
但他们不是伊拉克人。
But it's like the same false choice that is always put in front of me.
但这就像总是摆在我面前的同样错误的选择。
The people on my list are not these guys.
我名单上的人不是这些人。
And I'm convinced.
我确信。
I'm certain about it.
我对此很确定。
So are the thousands of Marines and soldiers and aid workers whose names are all attached to the list.
数千名海军陆战队员、士兵和援助人员的名字也都附在名单上。
And I'm not stupid.
而且我并不傻。
I'm not making any excuses for terrorists or anything.
我不会为恐怖分子或任何事情找借口。
But can't we at least we have one shade of nuance in understanding that not every Muslim is trying to kill us, and that for years, for a decade, people risked their lives to try to help us?
但我们不能至少有一点细微的差别来理解，并不是每个穆斯林都试图杀死我们，多年来，十年来，人们冒着生命危险试图帮助我们？
That's all I'm asking.
这就是我要问的。
It's just one grain.
这只是一粒谷物。
I'm not asking people to become experts in the difference between Sunni and Shia Islam.
我并不是要求人们成为区分逊尼派和什叶派伊斯兰教的专家。
I'm not trying to have them learn Arabic or anything.
我并不是想让他们学习阿拉伯语或任何东西。
Just give me that.
只要给我那个。
Just recognize that not all of these people are bad, lethal people.
只要认识到并非所有这些人都是坏人、致命的人。
I'm just really tired.
我只是真的很累了。
And I don't say that in like a woe is me thing.
我并不是说这就是我的事。
I just feel like I've thrown everything I can against this.
我只是觉得我已经竭尽全力反对这件事。
And I'm out of ideas.
我没有主意了。
I really don't know what else there is to do.
我真的不知道还有什么可做的。
After seven years, Kirk says he might be ready to declare defeat.
七年后，柯克说他可能已经准备好宣布失败了。
He's helped get about 1,500 Iraqis out.
他帮助大约 1,500 名伊拉克人撤离。
But another 1,500 are still on the list, waiting.
但还有 1,500 人仍在名单上等待。
And others died before they could make it out.
还有一些人还没来得及逃脱就死了。
Kirk says we're failing to do what we set out to do.
柯克说我们没有做到我们打算做的事情。
Now he wants to do something else with his life.
现在他想做点别的事情。
He's tired of being a scold.
他厌倦了当责骂者。
We're very rapidly entering the point in history that it's impolite to talk about the war, that if I bring it up at a dinner party or something, I get awkward, like, oh, you're still talking about that?
我们很快就进入了这样一个历史阶段：谈论战争是不礼貌的，如果我在晚宴或其他什么场合提起它，我会感到尴尬，就像，哦，你还在谈论这个吗？
That's awkward.
这很尴尬。
Kirk Johnson Yeah.
柯克·约翰逊 是的。
Before long, I'll be the guy in a wheelchair shouting about the abandonment of our Iraqi allies at the 4th of July parade in West Chicago in 2070 or something.
不久之后，我就会成为 2070 年西芝加哥 7 月 4 日阅兵式上坐在轮椅上大喊我们的伊拉克盟友被抛弃的人。
Kirk Johnson, speaking with Nancy Updike.
柯克·约翰逊与南希·厄普代克交谈。
You can read the entire correspondence between Omar and the bureaucrats.
你可以阅读奥马尔和官僚之间的全部信件。
And I recommend this.
我推荐这个。
It is even more staggering than we can communicate here over the radio.
这比我们在这里通过无线电交流更令人震惊。
We created a timeline with all the documents online at ThisAmericanLife.org/TakingNames-- again, ThisAmericanLife.org/TakingNames.
我们在 ThisAmericanLife.org/TakingNames 上创建了包含所有在线文档的时间表——同样是 ThisAmericanLife.org/TakingNames。
We did show the State Department and the International Organization for Migration-- the IOM-- the emails and the correspondence that seemed to have come from their organizations.
我们确实向国务院和国际移民组织（IOM）展示了似乎来自他们组织的电子邮件和信件。
They would not confirm that they had sent out these particular emails.
他们不愿确认他们是否已发出这些特定的电子邮件。
But they did confirm that these emails were characteristic of the types of emails they do send.
但他们确实确认这些电子邮件是他们发送的电子邮件类型的特征。
This week, by the way, the Senate voted to extend and improve the Special Immigrant Visa programs in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are due to expire next year.
顺便说一句，本周参议院投票决定延长和改善伊拉克和阿富汗的特殊移民签证计划，该计划将于明年到期。
That is the good news.
这是个好消息。
The bad news is the Senate did this as one small section of their comprehensive immigration reform bill, which who knows what will survive with that, if anything, once the House of Representatives takes it up.
坏消息是，参议院将此作为其全面移民改革法案的一小部分，谁知道一旦众议院接受该法案，该法案将会保留什么（如果有的话）。
Kirk Johnson's memoir, To Be a Friend is Fatal, The Fight to Save the Iraqis America Left Behind , will be out this September.
柯克·约翰逊的回忆录《成为朋友是致命的，为拯救美国落后的伊拉克人而战》将于今年九月出版。
Well, our program was produced today by Miki Meek with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Sarah Koenig, Jonathan Menjivar, Lisa Pollack, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Miki Meek 与 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Sarah Koenig、Jonathan Menjivar、Lisa Pollack、Brian Reed、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Production help from Phia Bennin.
菲亚·贝宁 (Phia Bennin) 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon is our production manager.
艾米丽·康登 (Emily Condon) 是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson is our administrative assistant.
埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的行政助理。
Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddes.
Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddes 提供音乐帮助。
Research by Michelle Harris.
米歇尔·哈里斯的研究。
Our special interactive timeline of Omar documents was produced by Zach Wise and Miki Meek.
我们的奥马尔文件的特殊互动时间线是由 Zach Wise 和 Miki Meek 制作的。
Again, visit our website, ThisAmericanLife.org/TakingNames.
请再次访问我们的网站 ThisAmericanLife.org/TakingNames。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
[致谢]《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our program by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia, who visited York City recently.
我们的老板 Torey Malatia 先生最近访问了约克市，对我们的项目进行了 WBEZ 管理监督。
And I don't know, it seems like he had a really weird visit to the Statue of Liberty.
我不知道，看来他对自由女神像的参观非常奇怪。
Don't worry, it's not like I slept with her anything.
别担心，我又没和她睡过什么。
I'm Ira Glass, back next week with more stories of This American Life.
我是艾拉·格拉斯，下周回来，带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC PLAYING - "RED TAPE" BY THE NEVERBEENS]
[音乐播放 - NEVERBEENS 的“RED Tape”]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。