498: The One Thing You're Not Supposed To Do - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #498 | June 21, 2013 498: The One Thing You're Not Supposed To Do Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 498 集 | 2013 年 6 月 21 日 498：你不应该做的一件事 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass This is a video shot not too long ago.
序言 Ira Glass 这是不久前拍摄的视频。
When it starts, you can see the gear shift in a car.
当它启动时，你可以看到汽车的换档。
The camera's shaky.
相机摇晃了。
It's a car full of young undocumented immigrants.
这辆车里挤满了年轻的无证移民。
They park.
他们停车。
Last words?
最后一句话？
Last words?
最后一句话？
Man 2 Take this, ICE.
男子 2 拿着这个，ICE。
The audio isn't so good.
音频不太好。
One of them said, last words?
其中一人说，最后一句话？
The other says, take this, ICE.
另一个说，拿这个，ICE。
ICE, he means the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency, which enforces federal immigration law.
ICE，他的意思是移民和海关执法局，负责执行联邦移民法。
The guy who's filming, a 24-year-old named Jonathan Perez puts the camera-- or maybe he's filming with a cellphone-- so that it's peeking out of his coat pocket.
拍摄者是一位 24 岁的乔纳森·佩雷斯 (Jonathan Perez)，他将相机（或者他可能正在用手机拍摄）放在外套口袋里。
You can see the zipper in the frame.
您可以在框架中看到拉链。
He gets out of the car, walks up a sidewalk to a building's front door.
他下了车，沿着人行道走到一栋大楼的前门。
And you can catch a glimpse of a doormat that says, US Border Patrol.
你可以看到门垫上写着“美国边境巡逻队”。
And you realize, oh, he's going inside.
然后你意识到，哦，他要进去了。
Can I help you?
我可以帮你吗？
Jonathan Perez What is this?
乔纳森·佩雷斯 这是什么？
Border Patrol.
边境巡逻。
Jonathan Perez Oh, [BLEEP].
乔纳森·佩雷斯 哦，[哔]。
Did you get that?
你明白了吗？
When he says, what is this, she says, Border Patrol.
当他说，这是什么时，她说，边境巡逻队。
Yeah, we're lost.
是的，我们迷路了。
Ira Glass He says he's looking for Mobile, Alabama, which he calls Mo-bi-al.
Ira Glass 他说他正在寻找阿拉巴马州莫比尔，他称之为 Mo-bi-al。
OK, hang on one second.
好的，请稍等。
Ira Glass Nothing happens for about a quarter minute, then two Border Patrol agents enter.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 大约四分之一分钟内没有任何反应，然后两名边境巡逻人员走了进来。
Hey, what's going on, hoss?
嘿，怎么了，老兄？
Jonathan Perez Hm?
乔纳森·佩雷斯 嗯？
How you doing?
你好吗？
Jonathan Perez I'm doing good.
乔纳森·佩雷斯 我做得很好。
What are you all doing here?
你们都在这里做什么？
Male Officer 1 What are we doing here?
男警官 1 我们来这里做什么？
What's your job?
你做什么工作？
Male Officer 1 To enforce immigration laws.
男官员 1 执行移民法。
Can we help you-- Jonathan Perez So you all are deporting people?
我们可以帮助你吗-- 乔纳森·佩雷斯 那么你们都在驱逐人们吗？
We don't deport people.
我们不驱逐人。
Judges do that.
法官就是这么做的。
What's it's to you?
关你什么事？
I'm undocumented, too.
我也是无证的
Male Officer 1 You're what?
男警官1 你是什么？
I'm illegal, too.
我也是违法的
Male Officer 1 Oh, you're illegal?
男警官1哦，你违法吗？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Why don't you show us some ID?
你为什么不给我们出示一些身份证件呢？
See what you've got for ID.
看看你有什么身份证件。
Soon, the camera clicks off, and the guy gets arrested.
很快，摄像机就关闭了，那家伙被捕了。
OK, why in the world would a young illegal immigrant do this, right, walk into a Border Patrol station, get himself arrested?
好吧，为什么一个年轻的非法移民会这么做，对吧，走进边境巡逻站，然后被捕？
Well, that is what our program is about today, about people doing the one thing that they are not supposed to do.
嗯，这就是我们今天节目的主题，关于人们做一件他们不应该做的事情。
What makes that happen?
是什么导致这种情况发生？
We have three stories in today's show.
今天的节目我们讲了三个故事。
One of the stories is this one.
其中一个故事就是这个。
One is about a teenager who listens to her parents, gets good grades, follows all the rules, until she disobeys the one ironclad rule she was never supposed to disobey.
其中一个故事讲述了一名青少年听从父母的话，取得好成绩，遵守所有规则，直到她违反了一条她不应该遵守的铁定规则。
And one story involves a moose that engages in some very un-moose-like behavior, I think you'll agree.
有一个故事涉及一只驼鹿，它做出了一些非常不像驼鹿的行为，我想你会同意的。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass, and let's just get to it.
我是 Ira Glass，让我们开始吧。
Let's get to the first act.
让我们开始第一幕吧。
Act One, Breaking the Ice.
第一幕，打破僵局。
So OK, why does a kid like Jonathan Perez get himself arrested on purpose by Border Patrol?
那么，为什么像乔纳森·佩雷斯这样的孩子会被边境巡逻队故意逮捕呢？
OK, well, here is where he's coming from.
好吧，他就是从这里来的。
And Bob, do we have any idea how old some of the protesters are?
鲍勃，我们知道一些抗议者的年龄有多大吗？
There they go.
他们就在那里。
All right.
好的。
Ira Glass OK, these activists are young.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）好吧，这些活动家都很年轻。
They're in their early 20s, and they are undocumented.
他们才20出头，而且没有证件。
You've seen them in the news over the years, probably.
多年来，您可能已经在新闻中看到过它们。
And a lot of them have this very sympathetic story.
他们中的很多人都有这样一个非常令人同情的故事。
They were brought here when they were little.
他们很小的时候就被带到了这里。
They grew up here in the United States.
他们在美国长大。
Some of them only found out they were illegal when they got old enough to apply to college and found out they could not go to college in this country.
他们中的一些人只有在年龄达到申请大学的年龄时才发现自己是非法的，并发现自己无法在这个国家上大学。
These are the kids that the Dream Act was designed to put on a path to citizenship.
《梦想法案》旨在让这些孩子走上公民身份之路。
And fighting to get the Dream Act passed is what got many of them into politics.
为梦想法案的通过而奋斗是他们中许多人进入政坛的原因。
And they have not been shy about using confrontational tactics to get their point across.
他们并不羞于使用对抗策略来表达自己的观点。
They block traffic.
他们阻塞交通。
They get arrested.
他们被捕了。
They lobby Congress wearing graduation gowns.
他们穿着毕业礼服游说国会。
And by 2009, they had stumbled onto this new tactic.
到了 2009 年，他们偶然发现了这种新策略。
Hello, I'm Walter Lara.
你好，我是沃尔特·拉拉。
As you know, I'm being deported this 4th of July weekend.
如您所知，我将在 7 月 4 日的周末被驱逐出境。
When kids like Walter Lara right here, who would have been helped by the Dream Act, got pulled into deportation hearings, they made internet videos, they went to the press, they organized petition drives, they got senators to write letters on their behalf.
当像沃尔特·拉拉这样本可以得到梦想法案帮助的孩子们被拉去参加驱逐听证会时，他们制作了互联网视频，他们去找媒体，他们组织请愿活动，他们让参议员代表他们写信。
And amazingly, this worked.
令人惊奇的是，这竟然奏效了。
Walter was allowed to stay.
沃尔特被允许留下来。
And you can just imagine how this caught on.
你可以想象它是如何流行起来的。
One of the groups helping immigrants do this was the National Immigration Youth Alliance, NIYA.
国家移民青年联盟 (NIYA) 是帮助移民实现这一目标的团体之一。
Mohammad Abdollahi-- everybody calls him Mo-- is one of its leaders.
穆罕默德·阿卜杜拉希（Mohammad Abdollahi）——大家都叫他莫——是该组织的领导人之一。
From there, every time we would do a case, another person would-- it would literally work like dominoes.
从那时起，每次我们做一个案例，另一个人就会——它实际上就像多米诺骨牌一样起作用。
We would do one case, and then we had somebody else contact us.
我们会做一个案例，然后让其他人联系我们。
And then we'd do that case, and then we'd have somebody else contact us.
然后我们会处理这个案子，然后我们会让其他人联系我们。
So it was just a complete domino effect, every month pretty much doing a different case of somebody that would contact us from the previous one.
所以这只是一个完整的多米诺骨牌效应，每个月几乎都会做一个不同的案例，有人会与上一个联系我们。
OK, so it's going great for two years.
好吧，这两年一切都很顺利。
And then the activists thought, OK, let's scale this up, not just do one person at a time.
然后活动人士想，好吧，让我们扩大规模，而不是一次只针对一个人。
Let's go for a big group all at once.
我们一起去一大群人吧。
And just think about it.
想一想吧。
If you want to help a big group of people who are about to get deported, where could you find them?
如果您想帮助一大群即将被驱逐出境的人，您可以在哪里找到他们？
Well, the obvious place, an immigration detention center.
嗯，显而易见的地方，一个移民拘留中心。
Mo thought all they needed to do is get inside a detention center that was full of people who are about to get deported.
莫认为他们需要做的就是进入一个看守所，里面挤满了即将被驱逐出境的人。
And he thought, that should be no problem, right?
他想，这应该没问题吧？
Because he and his activist friends were also illegal immigrants.
因为他和他的积极分子朋友也是非法移民。
They could get themselves detained.
他们可能会被拘留。
And you might think that his friends would say, no way.
你可能认为他的朋友会说，不可能。
That's nuts.
那太疯狂了。
No, when I called people, everyone was super down.
不，当我打电话给人们时，每个人都非常沮丧。
Yeah, I just quit my job.
是的，我刚刚辞职了。
Why not?
为什么不呢？
It was pretty much a response of, like, how long?
这几乎是一个回答，比如，多长时间？
And let's do it.
让我们开始吧。
Why not?
为什么不呢？
Hence, the video from Alabama of Jonathan Perez getting himself arrested.
因此，来自阿拉巴马州的乔纳森·佩雷斯被捕的视频。
That was their first attempt at a radical, in your face, bank heist version of this.
这是他们第一次尝试激进的、当着你面的银行抢劫版本。
And by the time the activists tried that, they also had a new weapon at their side.
当活动人士尝试这样做时，他们身边也有了新武器。
There was a set of government documents that unless you are involved in this issue, you've probably never heard of.
有一组政府文件，除非您参与这个问题，否则您可能从未听说过。
These documents are known as the Morton Memos, named after John Morton, President Obama's current head of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, ICE.
这些文件被称为莫顿备忘录，以奥巴马总统现任移民和海关执法机构 ICE 负责人约翰·莫顿 (John Morton) 的名字命名。
He's actually leaving the job next month.
他实际上下个月就要离职了。
And the memos say, basically, that since the United States does not have the money and resources to deport all 11 million illegal immigrants that are in this country, we have to prioritize.
备忘录基本上说，由于美国没有资金和资源驱逐国内所有 1100 万非法移民，所以我们必须优先考虑。
So it says, let's focus on the people that we most want to get rid of.
所以它说，让我们专注于我们最想摆脱的人。
And those are, of course, criminals.
当然，这些人都是罪犯。
And as for all the other people who are undocumented but don't break other laws-- let's say you have a job, you go to church, you raise your kids, you work hard, you pay your taxes.
至于所有其他无证但不违反其他法律的人——假设你有工作，你去教堂，你抚养你的孩子，你努力工作，你缴税。
You are low priority.
你的优先级较低。
We're not coming after you, the administration is saying.
政府说，我们不会追捕你。
Here's the president at a town meeting on Univision.
这是总统在Univision 举行的一次城镇会议上的照片。
And so our deportation of criminals are up about 70%.
因此，我们驱逐出境的罪犯增加了约 70%。
Our deportation of non-criminals are down.
我们对非罪犯的驱逐有所减少。
And that's because we want to focus our resources on those folks who are destructive to the community.
那是因为我们希望将资源集中在那些对社区有破坏性的人身上。
And for a young person like that young woman that we just spoke to who's going to school, doing all the right things, we want them to succeed.
对于像我们刚才采访的那位年轻女士这样正在上学、做所有正确的事情的年轻人，我们希望他们成功。
But there's a catch to all this, the way that the Morton Memos work.
但这一切都有一个问题，那就是莫顿备忘录的工作方式。
And that is, these memos are just guidelines.
也就是说，这些备忘录只是指导方针。
They're just recommendations to the ICE field offices.
它们只是向 ICE 现场办事处提出的建议。
They are not legally binding.
它们不具有法律约束力。
If an ICE office stumbles on a low priority immigrant and feels like it has the resources to detain or deport that immigrant, it can do that.
如果 ICE 办公室偶然发现一名低优先级移民，并认为它有资源拘留或驱逐该移民，它就可以这样做。
And so lots of people are getting detained who the Morton Memos say should not be.
因此，许多莫顿备忘录认为不应该被拘留的人被拘留。
And just in case you don't know this, overall, President Obama has been deporting people at a quicker rate than any previous president.
如果你不知道这一点，总的来说，奥巴马总统驱逐人员的速度比任何一位前任总统都要快。
OK, which brings us back to our activists.
好的，这让我们回到我们的积极分子。
Remember, they wanted to get into a detention center.
请记住，他们想进入拘留中心。
They wanted to help release the kinds of people who would be covered under the Morton Memos, these low priority detainees.
他们希望帮助释放莫顿备忘录所涵盖的那些人，即这些低优先级的被拘留者。
And that video that you heard of Jonathan Perez getting himself arrested was the very first time they tried to get themselves locked up.
你听说过的乔纳森·佩雷斯被捕的视频是他们第一次试图把自己关起来。
It was a test of whether they could get themselves put into a detention center, gather evidence, and then later get themselves released.
这是对他们是否能把自己关进看守所、收集证据，然后再释放的考验。
And this worked.
这奏效了。
So a half year after that, July 2012, the activists decided to try again and take things further.
因此半年后，即 2012 年 7 月，活动人士决定再次尝试并更进一步。
This time, they were really going to try to get lots of people set free.
这一次，他们真的要尝试让很多人获得自由。
Reporter Michael May picks up the story from this point and explains what happened next.
记者迈克尔·梅（Michael May）从这里开始报道，并解释了接下来发生的事情。
Their next target was a detention center in Florida called the Broward Transitional Center.
他们的下一个目标是佛罗里达州一个名为布劳沃德过渡中心的拘留中心。
Broward only holds non-violent illegal immigrants, the very people the Morton Memos were designed to steer away from deportation proceedings.
布劳沃德只关押非暴力非法移民，莫顿备忘录的目的正是为了避免这些人被驱逐出境。
Since Broward is segregated by gender, the plan was for a man and a woman to go in.
由于布劳沃德是按性别隔离的，因此计划是让一男一女进去。
The man was Marco Saavedra.
这个人就是马可·萨维德拉。
He's 23.
他23岁了。
His parents farmed a tiny patch of land in Mexico and brought him to the US when he was a toddler.
他的父母在墨西哥耕种了一小块土地，并在他蹒跚学步时将他带到了美国。
Through some lucky breaks, Marco went to a fancy boarding school and then to a private college that accepted illegal immigrants.
通过一些幸运的机会，马可进入了一所高档的寄宿学校，然后又进入了一所接受非法移民的私立大学。
He wears wire-rimmed glasses.
他戴着金属丝框眼镜。
He's earnest and thoughtful, uses words like hegemony in regular conversation.
他很认真，很体贴，在日常谈话中会使用霸权之类的词。
And here he was trying to get locked up.
而他却想把自己关在这里。
I got really nervous.
我真的很紧张。
And I was-- I guess it's not the worst thing to get arrested.
我想，被捕并不是最糟糕的事情。
So on a bright, sunny Florida morning last July, Marco dresses up like a day laborer and drives with some other activists to a commercial port with freighters and cruise ships and a lot of security.
因此，在去年七月佛罗里达州一个阳光明媚的早晨，马可打扮得像个临时工，和其他一些活动人士一起开车前往一个商业港口，那里有货轮和游轮，还有很多保安。
They had heard of people being detained there before.
他们以前听说有人被拘留在那里。
I mean, there's, like, two booths.
我的意思是，有两个摊位。
And there's always a guard that needs to check everyone that goes in and out.
而且总有一名警卫需要检查每个进出的人。
The other activists drop him off and drive to a nearby CVS drugstore and park.
其他活动人士送他下车，开车前往附近的 CVS 药店和公园。
Marco walks up to the security booth.
马可走到保安亭。
A job, a job.
一份工作，一份工作。
I just keep on saying that.
我只是一直这么说。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] I have no money, or something like that.
[说西班牙语]我没有钱，或者类似的东西。
And he just said, go home.
他只是说，回家吧。
I can't do anything for you.
我不能为你做任何事。
And I'm not going to call the police.
我不会报警。
So I'm like-- I walk, like, 100 feet away and then I call the folks that are in the CVS parking lot saying, I was shut down.
所以我就像——我走了 100 英尺远，然后我打电话给 CVS 停车场的人说，我被关闭了。
What do I do?
我该怎么办？
And they just said, go back.
他们只是说，回去吧。
So three minutes later, I'm right back at the guard in a Kafka-esque situation, like, kind of begging them to take me in.
三分钟后，我就回到了警卫处，陷入了卡夫卡式的境地，就像是在恳求他们收留我一样。
Like, I need a job.
就像，我需要一份工作。
I have no money.
我没有钱。
I'm hungry.
我饿了。
But no matter what Marco said, the guard just wasn't in the mood to call the cops on him.
但无论马可说什么，警卫就是没有心情报警抓捕他。
Again, Marco walks away.
马可再次走开。
Again, he calls his friends.
他再次打电话给他的朋友。
Again they tell him to keep trying.
他们再次告诉他要继续努力。
So he goes back.
所以他回去了。
Gets sent away again.
又被送走了。
At this point, he's just baffled by how hard this is.
此时此刻，他只是对这件事有多难感到困惑。
Finally, after three or four rounds of this, Marco just refuses to go away.
最后，经过三四轮之后，马可拒绝离开。
And then he gets what he wants.
然后他就得到了他想要的。
The guard calls over a police officer.
警卫叫来了一名警察。
He was, like, a big-- I mean, he's a big white guy.
他是个大个子——我的意思是，他是个大个子白人。
He's, like, in his 40s.
他大概40多岁了。
But he's, like, friendly, right?
但他很友善，对吧？
So he's like, how are you?
所以他就像，你好吗？
Like [SPANISH].
就像[西班牙语]。
He tries to speak his minimal Spanish greeting.
他试着用最简单的西班牙语打招呼。
And then again, I gave the cop the same spiel of like, I'm looking for a job.
然后我又对警察说了同样的话，比如我在找工作。
Let me in.
让我进去。
The guard hasn't let me in.
门卫不让我进去。
I really need a job because I'm hungry.
我真的需要一份工作，因为我很饿。
I don't have any money.
我没有钱。
I show him my wallet.
我给他看了我的钱包。
I show him that I just have a Mexican ID card and, like, $2.
我向他展示我只有一张墨西哥身份证和 2 美元。
Marco was like, now we're cooking.
马可说，现在我们正在做饭。
But the cop also refuses to take the bait.
但警察也拒绝上钩。
Even though Marco is really pulling out all the stops, talking about how he crossed the desert with a bunch of people.
尽管马可真的是使出了浑身解数，讲述着他是如何和一群人穿越沙漠的。
He even says it flat out.
他甚至直言不讳地说。
And I do.
我确实这么做了。
I do say, like, I don't have papers.
我确实会说，我没有证件。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] And he continuously says, don't tell me you're illegal.
[说西班牙语]他不断地说，别告诉我你是非法的。
Don't tell me you're illegal.
别告诉我你是违法的。
He's, like, begging me not to tell him that I'm illegal.
他就像在求我不要告诉他我是非法的。
At one point the cop-- I mean, I think he almost wants to throw up his hands and say, just go home.
有一次，警察——我的意思是，我想他几乎想举起双手说，回家吧。
We'll pretend this never happened.
我们会假装这件事从未发生过。
So he opens up his wallet.
于是他打开了钱包。
And it looks like just singles.
而且看起来只是单身。
And so to shoo me away, he offers me $5 to get on the bus.
为了赶走我，他给了我 5 美元让我上车。
And I just refuse just because it's so weird.
我只是拒绝，因为这太奇怪了。
All these young activists, they'd heard stories of people being detained for hardly any reason.
所有这些年轻的活动人士，他们都听说过人们几乎没有任何理由被拘留的故事。
The guy who dropped his kid off at school and a cop sees him and detains him.
那个把他的孩子送到学校的人，一名警察看到了他并拘留了他。
Or the one pulled over for making a wide right turn.
或者是因右转大转弯而靠边停车的人。
But Marco can't seem to get detained no matter what he does.
但马可似乎无论做什么都无法被拘留。
That is really strange.
这实在是太奇怪了。
And it's so arbitrary.
而且它是如此任意。
Eventually, he gives up.
最终，他放弃了。
They leave the port and go somewhere that seems like it has to be a sure bet, the immigration office at the Fort Lauderdale airport.
他们离开港口，去了一个看起来肯定会发生的地方：劳德代尔堡机场的移民办公室。
We knock on the door, and the agent just shuts the door on my face.
我们敲了敲门，工作人员却当着我的面把门关上了。
And he's just like, go away.
他就像，走开。
Don't bother me.
别打扰我。
The next morning, they decide to keep it simple.
第二天早上，他们决定保持简单。
They drop Marco off right in front of a Border Patrol station.
他们让马可在边境巡逻站前下车。
I just go to the front door and just ring the bell.
我只是走到前门，按响门铃。
Someone responds, and I say,
有人回应，我说，
[SPEAKING SPANISH] I'm looking for my cousin.
[说西班牙语]我正在寻找我的表弟。
And the lady is just like, one moment, sir.
这位女士就像，一会儿，先生。
An agent will come out to see you.
会有一个代理人出来见你。
And so this big agent-- he's pretty tall, maybe six foot two, glasses.
这位大经纪人——他很高，大约六英尺二英寸，戴着眼镜。
His hair is thinning because he's probably in his 40s.
他的头发已经稀疏了，因为他可能已经40多岁了。
He comes out with a pad, and he's wearing his Border Patrol uniform, which is just all green khakis.
他带着护垫出来，穿着边境巡逻队制服，全是绿色卡其布。
And I just say, like, I'm looking for my cousin.
我只是说，我在找我的表弟。
We think that he was stopped near Broadway Avenue.
我们认为他在百老汇大道附近被拦住了。
He doesn't have papers, so we went to the police, but we were thinking that maybe Border Patrol stopped him.
他没有证件，所以我们去找了警察，但我们想也许边境巡逻队拦住了他。
And then I said something like, because we all came here together.
然后我说了类似的话，因为我们都是一起来到这里的。
Marco used his cell phone to record the conversation.
马可用手机记录了谈话内容。
It's fuzzy and hard to hear, but Marco goes around and around with the guy for a while.
声音很模糊，很难听清，但马可和那个家伙一起转了一会儿。
Finally, the agent asks him directly, so you're illegal too?
最后经纪人直接问他，那你也违法了？
Marco says, yes.
马可说，是的。
The officer says, you know I have to arrest you.
警官说，你知道我必须逮捕你。
Oh.
哦。
Male Officer Yeah.
男军官 是啊。
Put your hands behind your back.
将双手放在背后。
You presented yourself to a-- I'm a law officer.
你向我介绍了自己，我是一名执法人员。
I have to arrest you.
我必须逮捕你。
You can hear how surprised the agent is, like someone who's fishing and has a fish jump into their boat.
你可以听出经纪人有多么惊讶，就像一个人在钓鱼，结果一条鱼跳进了他们的船。
I'm still holding the phone in my hand, so you can hear the handcuffs clicking as I turn the phone off.
我手里仍然握着手机，所以当我关闭手机时，你可以听到手铐发出的咔哒声。
What kind of risk was Marco taking getting locked up?
马可被关起来冒着什么样的风险？
Well, by this point, President Obama had announced a sort of watered down version of the Dream Act, and Marco met its requirements.
好吧，此时，奥巴马总统已经宣布了梦想法案的一种淡化版本，而马可满足了其要求。
On the other hand, he had a criminal record from protests he'd been at-- disorderly conduct.
另一方面，他因参加抗议活动而有犯罪记录——扰乱治安。
And as he was being processed by an agent who thought Marco didn't speak any English, the agent took a look at his criminal record and said, this guy will be a bag and ready case.
当一名特工认为马可不会说英语时，他正在接受处理，特工查看了他的犯罪记录并说，这家伙将是一个袋子和现成的案件。
They filed paperwork to begin deportation proceedings.
他们提交了文件以开始驱逐程序。
And those are still going ahead today.
这些今天仍在继续。
The young woman who was going to get herself detained is an honors student over-achiever type named Viridiana Martinez.
这位即将被拘留的年轻女子是一位成绩优异的优等生，名叫维莉迪亚娜·马丁内斯 (Viridiana Martinez)。
She goes by Viri.
她的昵称是维里。
She had to try twice before a cop reluctantly detained her and sent her to Broward.
她不得不尝试两次，直到警察不情愿地拘留了她并将她送往布劳沃德。
My brother was like, whoa, dude, you're in the pen?
我哥哥说，哇，伙计，你在围栏里吗？
Shut up.
住口。
When are you getting out?
你什么时候出去？
She called her family and tried to explain why she took the risk.
她给家人打电话，试图解释为什么她要冒这个险。
Everybody reacted differently.
每个人的反应都不同。
I told my mom.
我告诉我妈妈。
I told her on the phone.
我在电话里告诉她。
And she was like why are you doing that?
她说你为什么要这么做？
And I was like, Mom, because it could be you.
我当时想，妈妈，因为可能是你。
And it's not right that people go through this, you know?
人们经历这些是不对的，你知道吗？
And you say that you have faith, and you go to church and you believe in God.
你说你有信仰，你去教堂，你相信上帝。
Well, then, Mom, it's time to put that faith to practice.
那么，妈妈，是时候将这个信念付诸实践了。
I'm going to be fine.
我会没事的。
And my dad, ever since-- this was like, I had already been arrested before.
而我的父亲，从那以后——这就好像，我以前就已经被捕了。
And my dad always says, like, are you ready to go back to Mexico?
我爸爸总是说，比如，你准备好回墨西哥了吗？
Well, if you're ready to go to Mexico, then go ahead.
好吧，如果您准备好去墨西哥，那就去吧。
I'm like, OK, Dad.
我说，好吧，爸爸。
Thanks.
谢谢。
The night that Marco got arrested, a man inside Broward, a detainee named Claudio Rojas, got a phone call.
马可被捕的那天晚上，布劳沃德监狱里的一个名叫克劳迪奥·罗哈斯的被拘留者接到了一个电话。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter My son had called me that night.
[西班牙语] 翻译 那天晚上我儿子给我打电话。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter He told me he had a surprise for me.
[西班牙语] 翻译 他告诉我他给我一个惊喜。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter And that I would find out.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 我会找出答案。
At this point, Claudio had been in Broward for several months.
此时，克劳迪奥已经在布劳沃德呆了几个月了。
And his lawyer had been arguing that he was a Morton Memo case.
他的律师一直辩称他是莫顿备忘录案。
He was a hardworking family man with nice kids who paid his taxes and was devoutly Christian.
他是一个勤劳的家庭男人，有好孩子，他们缴纳税款，并且是虔诚的基督徒。
He'd been in the US for almost 12 years.
他来美国已经快12年了。
His lawyer argued he should not be locked up, much less deported.
他的律师辩称他不应该被关起来，更不用说被驱逐出境了。
Claudo is a people person, kind of a natural organizer.
克劳多是一个善于交际的人，是一个天生的组织者。
And talking to other prisoners, he realized there were lots of people like him who would be covered by the Morton Memos.
在与其他囚犯交谈后，他意识到有很多像他一样的人会受到莫顿备忘录的保护。
So completely on his own, he started collecting names and passing them to his son on the outside.
完全靠他自己，他开始收集名字并将其传给外面的儿子。
And his son contacted the activists at NIYA.
他的儿子联系了 NIYA 的活动人士。
That's one of the reasons NIYA decided to send Marco and Viri into Broward.
这就是 NIYA 决定将 Marco 和 Viri 送到布劳沃德的原因之一。
But Claudio was in the dark about all that except for the phone call telling him a surprise was on the way.
但克劳迪奥对这一切一无所知，除了电话告诉他惊喜即将到来。
The next morning--
第二天早上——
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter I was in my room.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 我在我的房间里。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter And Marco opens the door.
[说西班牙语] 翻译和马可打开门。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter And he asks for Claudio Rojas.
[西班牙语] 翻译 他要求找克劳迪奥·罗哈斯。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter He tells me, I know your son.
[西班牙语] 翻译 他告诉我，我认识你的儿子。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter And then he explains how they met, and that's when I realized this was the surprise my son was talking about.
[说西班牙语] 翻译然后他解释了他们是如何相遇的，就在那时我意识到这就是我儿子所说的惊喜。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter I say, what are you doing here, Marco?
[说西班牙语] 翻译 我说，你在这里做什么，马可？
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter He says, I came to help you.
[西班牙语] 翻译他说，我是来帮助你的。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter You came to help me.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 你来帮助我。
Yeah.
是的。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter Well, let's get to work.
[说西班牙语] 口译员 好吧，让我们开始工作吧。
And that's when we began to work.
就在那时我们开始工作。
We didn't waste a second.
我们没有浪费一秒钟。
Just like that, the plan was under way.
就这样，计划就开始进行了。
Claudio began introducing Marco to people, showing him around the detention center.
克劳迪奥开始向人们介绍马可，带他参观拘留中心。
Broward is a strange place.
布劳沃德是一个奇怪的地方。
It's in the suburbs of Fort Lauderdale, across the street from a Domino's Pizza.
它位于劳德代尔堡郊区，与达美乐披萨店隔街相望。
Except for the walls around the perimeter, it could be mistaken for a low budget retirement home.
除了周边的墙壁外，它可能会被误认为是低预算的养老院。
It's painted pastel pink.
它被漆成淡粉色。
There's a courtyard with palm trees and a volleyball court.
酒店设有一个种有棕榈树的庭院和一个排球场。
But everyone wears orange jumpsuits.
但每个人都穿着橙色连身裤。
Marco says it's low security, but it still feels like a jail.
马可说这里的安全性很低，但仍然感觉像一座监狱。
It's like a nightmarish boarding school would look like.
这就像一所噩梦般的寄宿学校。
I mean, it feels like if you were confined to a really, really cheap motel room that you couldn't get out of, that's basically what it feels like.
我的意思是，感觉就像你被限制在一个非常非常便宜的汽车旅馆房间里，你无法离开，基本上就是这种感觉。
Though the doors aren't locked, there are hours during the day when the detainees are not allowed to leave their rooms.
尽管门没有锁，但白天有几个小时不允许被拘留者离开房间。
Marco says, kind of the only thing to do is watch TV.
马可说，唯一能做的就是看电视。
As Claudio showed Marco how everything worked, he also told him about what he'd been finding-- that there were all these Morton Memo types at Broward who should be able to get out.
当克劳迪奥向马可展示一切是如何运作时，他也告诉了他他所发现的事情——布劳沃德有所有这些莫顿备忘录类型的人应该能够离开。
And Claudio said that deportation officers openly admitted that those memos, those mean nothing.
克劳迪奥说，驱逐官员公开承认那些备忘录毫无意义。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter I've heard immigration agents tell people who were fighting for their rights, tell them, President Obama isn't going to tell me how to do my job.
[说西班牙语] 口译员 我听到移民代理告诉那些为自己的权利而奋斗的人，告诉他们，奥巴马总统不会告诉我如何做我的工作。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter Because their job is to deport people.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 因为他们的工作是驱逐人们。
The president in his presidency and me here.
总统在任期间，我在这里。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter That's how things were done.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 事情就是这样完成的。
He heard people say that?
他听人这么说？
Interpreter [SPEAKING SPANISH]
口译员 [西班牙语]
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter Of course.
[说西班牙语] 口译员 当然。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter It was every day.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 这是每一天。
Marco and Claudio began to move systematically through Broward.
马可和克劳迪奥开始系统地通过布劳沃德。
They went door to door, interviewing the some 600 guys inside, one room at a time.
他们挨家挨户地采访了里面的大约 600 个人，一次一个房间。
They interviewed detainees in the courtyard, in the cafeteria, in the game room.
他们在庭院、自助餐厅、游戏室采访了被拘留者。
Always, their plan was to figure out who qualified to get out under the Morton Memos.
他们的计划始终是找出谁有资格根据莫顿备忘录退出。
They wanted the most sympathetic cases they could find.
他们想要找到他们能找到的最有同情心的案例。
It was a big job.
这是一项艰巨的工作。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter We began speaking individually with the detained, asking them what their situation was.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 我们开始与被拘留者单独交谈，询问他们的情况如何。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter If they had wives, kids, how long they'd been in the country.
[说西班牙语] 口译员 如果他们有妻子、孩子，他们在这个国家呆了多久。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter If they had criminal records.
[西班牙语] 翻译 他们是否有犯罪记录。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter Something that could help them.
[说西班牙语] 口译员 可以帮助他们的东西。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter And all of that, we turned over to the people outside, the people with Mohammad.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 所有这一切，我们都交给了外面的人，和穆罕默德一起的人。
So the role of the outside team was, essentially, we fielded calls all day.
因此，外部团队的角色本质上就是我们整天接听电话。
This is Mo, Mohammad Abdollahi, the guy who came up with the idea to infiltrate Broward.
这是莫，穆罕默德·阿卜杜拉希，提出渗透布劳沃德想法的人。
While Marco and Viri were inside, Mo and the others had set up at a house not far away where they were pulling together all the information coming out of Broward.
当马可和维里在里面时，莫和其他人已经在不远处的一所房子里扎营，他们在那里收集从布劳沃德传来的所有信息。
We'd get our first call every morning like clockwork.
每天早上我们都会像发条一样接到第一个电话。
I'd be sleeping-- 7:00 AM-- because Claudio was a gardener, so he's used to waking up really early in the morning.
我会在早上 7:00 睡觉，因为克劳迪奥是一名园丁，所以他习惯于早上很早就起床。
So every morning, 7:00 AM, Marco would call me.
所以每天早上 7:00，Marco 都会给我打电话。
And every morning, he'd give me a list of 20 names-- at least 20 names, if not more, of people to contact.
每天早上，他都会给我一份 20 个名字的清单——至少有 20 个名字，如果不是更多的话，需要联系的人。
The first thing they'd do with these names is to make an attempt to vet the person's story, call friends and family to make sure they were telling the truth.
他们对这些名字所做的第一件事就是尝试审查这个人的故事，打电话给朋友和家人以确保他们说的是实话。
If they thought the person really did have grounds to be let out, they'd launch a public campaign to get them released.
如果他们认为这个人确实有理由被释放，他们就会发起一场公开运动，让他们被释放。
They'd put up an online petition that told their story.
他们在网上提交了一份请愿书，讲述了他们的故事。
They'd help families hold press conferences and vigils, help them get media attention.
他们会帮助家人举行新闻发布会和守夜活动，帮助他们获得媒体关注。
They'd reach out to the detainee's church and get them involved.
他们会联系被拘留者的教堂并让他们参与进来。
They'd urge people to call politicians and give them sample scripts asking congressmen and senators to intervene with immigration authorities.
他们敦促人们打电话给政治家，并向他们提供样本脚本，要求国会议员和参议员干预移民当局。
Day after day, Marco and Viri and Claudio were now roaming the halls of Broward, slipping people tiny pieces of paper with the phone number of the activists in the house outside.
日复一日，马可、维里和克劳迪奥在布劳沃德的大厅里闲逛，给人们递一些小纸片，上面写着外面房子里活动人士的电话号码。
Here's Mo.
这是莫。
Initially, when we got to Florida, everybody would call my phone, because that was the number that Marco and Viridiana had memorized.
最初，当我们到达佛罗里达时，每个人都会拨打我的电话，因为这是马可和维里迪亚娜记住的号码。
After the third day or so, it got to the point where literally every 30 seconds, we were getting a phone call from a family member from the facility or somebody in the detention center calling us.
大约第三天后，几乎每隔 30 秒，我们就会接到看守所的家人或看守所里的人打来的电话。
And that's when we realized, we can't do this with just one phone.
就在那时我们意识到，我们无法仅用一部手机来做到这一点。
So the group set up a hotline and enlisted activists in several other states to help field calls from detainees in Broward.
因此，该组织设立了一条热线电话，并招募了其他几个州的活动人士来帮助接听布劳沃德被拘留者的电话。
This is Lindora.
这是琳多拉。
I talked to you about Hugo.
我跟你谈过雨果。
He's in the Broward County Detention Center.
他在布劳沃德县拘留中心。
These are recordings from that line.
这些是该行的录音。
It's hundreds of calls and messages.
这是数百个电话和消息。
[SPEAKING SPANISH].
[说西班牙语]。
Angel [SPEAKING SPANISH].
天使[说西班牙语]。
Most of the calls are in Spanish.
大多数电话都是西班牙语。
You can often hear children crying or playing.
您经常可以听到孩子们的哭声或玩耍声。
A few tell whole stories.
有一些讲述了整个故事。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Michael May This woman named Elefsina, she got the number from her husband who had been in Broward for months.
[西班牙语] 迈克尔·梅 这位名叫埃莱夫西娜的女士，是从她在布劳沃德呆了几个月的丈夫那里得到的电话号码。
She says, please, truly, from my heart, I need you to help me.
她说，拜托，真心地，我发自内心地需要你帮助我。
I have three children.
我有三个孩子。
One who's 16 is disabled.
16岁的人是残疾人。
He says he's worthless, that he's a nobody, the he won't be able to help me.
他说他一文不值，他是一个无名小卒，他无法帮助我。
He made it clear that he wants to kill himself because he doesn't have his father.
他明确表示他想自杀，因为他没有父亲。
At this point, she starts to cry.
这时，她开始哭泣。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Michael May And then she finishes, please, please, I need you to help me.
[说西班牙语] Michael May 然后她说完，拜托，拜托，我需要你帮助我。
I need you to help me get my husband out.
我需要你帮我把我丈夫救出来。
He is a good father, a hard worker.
他是一个好父亲，一个勤奋的人。
Please help me.
请帮我。
It may seem strange that a bunch of 20-somethings with no legal experience could become the best option for so many detainees so quickly.
一群没有法律经验的 20 多岁的人这么快就成为这么多被拘留者的最佳选择，这似乎有些奇怪。
But most detainees at Broward have no lawyers.
但布劳沃德监狱的大多数被拘留者没有律师。
Immigration violations don't qualify you for a free public defender.
违反移民法并不意味着您有资格获得免费的公设辩护人。
I talked to a lawyer who does pro bono work inside.
我和一位在内部从事无偿工作的律师交谈过。
She told me most of the detainees are confused, can't afford a private lawyer, don't know their rights.
她告诉我，大多数被拘留者都很困惑，请不起私人律师，也不知道自己的权利。
Sometimes she has to explain to them what the place is and why they're there.
有时她必须向他们解释这个地方是什么以及他们为什么在那里。
This lawyer, her name is Jessica Shulruff.
这位律师，她的名字叫杰西卡·舒拉夫。
She works for a group called Americans for Immigrant Justice.
她为一个名为“美国移民正义”的组织工作。
She said that most of the people she encounters in Broward shouldn't be there.
她说她在布劳沃德遇到的大多数人都不应该在那里。
But last year, when she provided ICE with a list of all the people who would qualify under the Morton Memos--
但去年，当她向 ICE 提供了一份符合莫顿备忘录资格的人员名单时——
To say, these are individuals that we feel would benefit under the Memos that you should take a look at to go ahead and release quickly.
也就是说，我们认为这些人将从备忘录中受益，您应该查看并快速发布。
And in conversations with ICE officials, they came back to us and said, no, we need you to provide individual documentation for each of these individuals.
在与 ICE 官员的对话中，他们回去找我们说，不，我们需要您为这些人中的每一个人提供个人文件。
In all honesty, the purpose of the memo was for ICE to be reviewing these cases on their own.
老实说，这份备忘录的目的是让 ICE 自行审查这些案件。
And so that's, I think, what's been problematic.
我认为这就是问题所在。
The reality is that the implementation of the Morton Memos has been tangled and messy.
现实情况是，莫顿备忘录的实施一直是纠结和混乱的。
Lawyers like Shulruff say that ICE should be investigating the detainees, that most detainees, while they're locked up, have no way to gather the documents and witnesses they'd need.
像舒尔拉夫这样的律师表示，ICE 应该对被拘留者进行调查，因为大多数被拘留者在被关押期间，无法收集他们需要的文件和证人。
Most, as I've said, have no lawyers.
正如我所说，大多数人没有律师。
ICE, meanwhile, says it's not their job to investigate.
与此同时，ICE 表示调查不是他们的工作。
It's their job to review all the evidence that detainees show them.
他们的工作是审查被拘留者向他们展示的所有证据。
Then there's the question of whether ICE should be detaining any low priority cases at all.
接下来的问题是 ICE 是否应该拘留任何低优先级案件。
Immigration lawyers like Shulruff argue that if someone squarely falls within the guidelines of the Memos, the answer is no.
像舒尔拉夫这样的移民律师认为，如果某人完全符合备忘录的指导方针，那么答案是否定的。
When I talked to the head of ICE in Florida, the guy who's in charge of Broward, he saw it differently.
当我与佛罗里达州 ICE 的负责人、布劳沃德的负责人交谈时，他有不同的看法。
His name is Marc Moore.
他的名字叫马克·摩尔。
He says the Memos clearly allow him to detain low priority immigrants.
他说，备忘录明确允许他拘留低优先级移民。
Let's say his agents run across two illegal immigrants.
假设他的特工遇到了两名非法移民。
One is high priority, and one is a typical low priority case, stopped on a traffic violation.
一种是高优先级案例，一种是典型的低优先级案例，因交通违规而被拦截。
So if it's a choice between somebody who has an aggravated felony for manslaughter or a choice between somebody with no driver's license, both are illegally present in the United States and subject to removal.
因此，如果是在犯有严重过失杀人罪的人或没有驾驶执照的人之间进行选择，那么两人都在美国非法居留并可能被驱逐出境。
Director Morton is clear that he wants us to focus on the one that presents the greatest threat to public safety, and we would go after the individual with the aggravated felony crime.
莫顿局长明确表示，他希望我们重点关注对公共安全构成最大威胁的人，我们将追捕犯有严重重罪的个人。
Now, does that mean we're going to turn a blind eye to everyone else?
现在，这是否意味着我们要对其他人视而不见？
Not necessarily.
未必。
Where there's an ability to do both, then sometimes yes, we're able to do both.
如果有能力做到这两点，那么有时我们就能做到这两点。
Moore is saying that if he's got the manpower and resources to deport them both, that's what he'll do.
摩尔说，如果他有人力和资源将他们俩驱逐出境，他就会这么做。
The low priority detainee will be deported.
低优先级的被拘留者将被驱逐出境。
And he's right.
他是对的。
The Morton Memos leave him that discretion.
莫顿备忘录给了他自由裁量权。
So though a memo from December 12th states that only real criminals, not people with traffic offenses, should be detained, one page later, it says, and I quote, "Nothing in this guidance should be construed to limit ICE's power to apprehend, charge, detain, administratively prosecute, or remove any alien unlawfully in the United States." In other words, Moore can throw out anyone he wants.
因此，尽管 12 月 12 日的一份备忘录规定，只有真正的罪犯，而不是有交通违法行为的人，才应该被拘留，但一页之后，它说，我引用，“本指南中的任何内容都不应被解释为限制 ICE 逮捕、指控、拘留、行政起诉或驱逐任何在美国非法居留的外国人的权力。”换句话说，摩尔可以随心所欲地抛弃任何人。
So Broward was full of hundreds of people needing to make their case to ICE.
因此，布劳沃德有数百人需要向 ICE 陈述自己的情况。
After about a week, the activists had taken on dozens of detainees, were holding press conferences, counseling families.
大约一周后，活动人士已经接待了数十名被拘留者，召开新闻发布会，为家人提供咨询。
Mo says at the peak, they were working from 7:00 AM until 11:00 PM, sometimes later.
Mo 说，在高峰期，他们从早上 7:00 工作到晚上 11:00，有时甚至更晚。
During the infiltration, Mo and the other activists scrambled to keep up with this huge demand Claudio and Marco and Viri were finding inside.
在渗透过程中，莫和其他活动分子争先恐后地满足克劳迪奥、马可和维里在内部发现的巨大需求。
So tell him to try and refuse to board, like do that same strategy as Andy that he did, which was he told the pilot that he was afraid that his life is in danger.
因此，告诉他尝试拒绝登机，就像他采取与安迪相同的策略，即他告诉飞行员他担心自己的生命有危险。
He refused to board.
他拒绝登机。
There's a video of Mo on a typical day during the infiltration.
有一段莫在渗透过程中典型的一天的视频。
You can see him pacing the halls of the house they're working out of.
你可以看到他在他们工作的房子的大厅里来回踱步。
He's on the phone with Marco trying to feed advice to a detainee at Broward, a guy who's scheduled to be deported on an airplane that afternoon.
他正在与马可通电话，试图向布劳沃德的一名被拘留者提供建议，这名男子计划于当天下午乘飞机被驱逐出境。
Tell him to refuse to put on his seat belt and those sorts of things.
告诉他不要系安全带之类的。
I mean, ICE can drug him right there on the spot if they want to.
我的意思是，如果 ICE 愿意的话，他们可以当场给他下药。
So just try and see if he can stall it and say his life is in danger.
所以试着看看他是否可以拖延并说他的生命处于危险之中。
I don't know how else people stall that [BLEEP].
我不知道人们还能如何阻止[BLEEP]。
But can you please, please, please try and find out what time his flight is?
但是你能不能试着查一下他的航班时间？
Then after Marco had been in Broward for just over three weeks, the group decided it was time to make their next move.
马可在布劳沃德呆了三周多后，团队决定是时候采取下一步行动了。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Michael May What they did next was make the infiltration public.
[西班牙语] 迈克尔·梅 他们接下来所做的是将渗透公开。
Marco and Viri both did interviews over detention center phones with TV stations outside.
马可和维里都通过看守所电话与外面的电视台进行了采访。
So Marco spoke with Univision, and I spoke with Telemundo.
Marco 与 Univision 进行了交谈，我与 Telemundo 进行了交谈。
It was, like, a Thursday evening.
那是，就像，一个星期四的晚上。
This is Broward with all these Hispanic detainees.
这是布劳沃德和所有这些西班牙裔被拘留者。
So that's on, like, every TV.
所以，就像每台电视上都有的那样。
So Marco and I are on there, and everybody's like, [SPANISH].
马可和我在那里，每个人都说，[西班牙语]。
They're like, the infiltrator.
他们就像渗透者。
She's here.
她在这里。
And people were coming into the room.
人们走进房间。
You probably can already imagine what happened next.
你可能已经可以想象接下来发生的事情了。
They got kicked out.
他们被赶了出来。
That happened on Thursday evening.
那件事发生在周四晚上。
Friday morning, ICE calls us to an office and, like, Simone Lee-Fatt is her name.
周五早上，ICE 将我们叫到办公室，她的名字是西蒙·李-法特 (Simone Lee-Fatt)。
And she said, I'm here because you all meet the requirements for release.
她说，我来这里是因为你们都符合释放的条件。
And I was like, OK, why aren't you bringing everybody else that meets the requirements for release as well?
我当时想，好吧，为什么你不带上其他所有符合发布要求的人呢？
I'm not in the business of telling you about anybody else's case.
我无意告诉你其他人的案件。
So please, like, you meet the requirements for release.
所以请您满足发布要求。
All of a sudden, right?
突然吧？
Like, what a coincidence that after this interview and people make a big deal, we meet the requirements for release.
就像，多么巧合的是，在这次采访之后，人们大肆宣扬，我们满足了发布的要求。
It took two weeks.
花了两周时间。
Wow.
哇。
In a sense, this was true.
从某种意义上说，这是真的。
The activists say that some days, the main requirement to get released seemed to be that you get media attention.
活动人士表示，有时，获得释放的主要要求似乎是获得媒体关注。
Now Marco and Viri had done just that.
现在马可和维里已经做到了。
About an hour later, they were being released.
大约一个小时后，他们被释放。
To give you a sense of what the whole thing meant to those held at Broward, it's worth mentioning what happened.
为了让您了解整个事件对布劳沃德关押者意味着什么，值得一提的是发生的事情。
After Marco and Viri were kicked out, detainees demanded to know what happened to them.
马可和维里被驱逐后，被拘留者要求知道他们发生了什么事。
Right away, people gathered in the courtyard in the middle of the detention center and refused to move, yelling and chanting.
随即，人们聚集在看守所中间的院子里，不肯动弹，高呼口号。
Only when Claudio was assured that they had been set free did everyone agree to go back to their rooms.
直到克劳迪奥确信他们已经被释放后，大家才同意回到自己的房间。
That weekend, the detainees held a hunger strike to protest their incarceration.
那个周末，被拘留者绝食抗议他们的监禁。
Claudio Rojas was still inside for a month after Marco and Viri were released.
马可和维里被释放后，克劳迪奥·罗哈斯仍在里面待了一个月。
He says the change was remarkable.
他说这种变化是显着的。
He says he saw new ICE staff brought in to review people's cases, and people started getting out.
他说，他看到 ICE 聘请了新工作人员来审查人们的案件，但人们开始离开。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter When you leave the lunchroom and go into the store where they sell goods, that's where they've put up the court forms.
[说西班牙语] 口译员 当您离开餐厅并进入他们出售商品的商店时，那里就是他们张贴法庭表格的地方。
It's like a form for the court.
这就像法庭的表格。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter Of the people who had court that day.
[说西班牙语] 那天出庭的人的翻译。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter Before, the 25 people who may have had court that day, maybe one or two would qualify for bond.
[西班牙语] 翻译 之前，当天可能出庭的 25 人中，也许有一两个人有资格获得保释。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter Everybody else would be deported.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 其他人都会被驱逐出境。
After Mohammad's people started working, and the system opened, we saw the change, when that closed system opened up.
在穆罕默德的人开始工作并且系统开放后，当封闭的系统开放时，我们看到了变化。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Interpreter When the system opened up, those pieces of paper and now said next to each name, relief, relief, relief, bond, bond, bond.
[说西班牙语] 翻译 当系统打开时，那些纸片现在在每个名字旁边写着，浮雕，浮雕，浮雕，债券，债券，债券。
That's what Claudio says he saw.
这就是克劳迪奥所说的他所看到的。
But the total effects of the infiltration, well, they're actually kind of hard to pin down.
但渗透的总体影响实际上很难确定。
The activists say they took on around 150 cases and got somewhere between 40 and 60 people out of Broward.
活动人士称，他们接手了大约 150 起案件，并从布劳沃德转移了 40 到 60 人。
ICE denies that the activists got anyone out.
ICE 否认活动人士曾将任何人带出境。
They say those people would have been released anyway.
他们说无论如何这些人都会被释放。
Claudio was released about a month after Marco and Viri.
克劳迪奥在马可和维里大约一个月后获释。
He'd spent a total of seven months in detention.
他总共被拘留了七个月。
One day, an ICE agent just took him to an office, told him he'd met the qualifications for release.
有一天，一名 ICE 探员把他带到一间办公室，告诉他他已经符合释放资格。
[SPEAKING SPANISH] Claudio Rojas [SPEAKING SPANISH]
[说西班牙语] 克劳迪奥·罗哈斯 [说西班牙语]
No. Michael May In the months after the infiltration, 26 members of Congress signed a letter to ICE head John Morton.
不。迈克尔·梅 (Michael May) 在渗透后的几个月里，26 名国会议员签署了一封致 ICE 负责人约翰·莫顿 (John Morton) 的信。
It was put together by Congressman Ted Deutsch, whose district includes Broward.
它是由国会议员泰德·多伊奇（Ted Deutsch）组织的，布劳沃德所在的选区就包括在内。
And it asked for a case-by-case review of every single person in the facility.
它还要求对设施中的每个人进行个案审查。
When I talked to Congressman Deutsch more than half a year after ICE received his group's letter, he said ICE had refused to do what the letter asked for.
在 ICE 收到其组织的信函半年多后，当我与国会议员多伊奇交谈时，他说 ICE 拒绝按照信函的要求行事。
He says low priority people are still being locked up across the country, which he thinks is a problem.
他说，全国范围内低优先级的人仍然被关押，他认为这是一个问题。
The immigration reform bill that's now in the Senate tries to address this head on.
目前正在参议院审议的移民改革法案试图正面解决这个问题。
It orders ICE not to detain any low priority immigrants unless there's a specific reason, like they're a flight risk.
它命令 ICE 不得拘留任何低优先级移民，除非有特定原因，例如他们有逃亡风险。
But what are you noticing, Cynthia, in your surroundings?
但是，辛西娅，你在周围注意到了什么？
Like all of this is happening--
就像这一切正在发生一样——
Like how many people are there and who's talking to who.
比如那里有多少人以及谁在与谁交谈。
And while you're doing that, they're going to cuff your hands like this instead of cuffing you like this.
当你这样做的时候，他们会像这样铐你的手，而不是像这样铐你。
In April, Mo and Viri and three other organizers were in a condo in the outskirts of Raleigh, North Carolina.
四月，莫和维里以及其他三名组织者在北卡罗来纳州罗利郊区的一套公寓里。
Mo and several of the organizers had just finished driving in from Texas to be there.
莫和几位组织者刚刚从德克萨斯州开车过来。
The point of this meeting was to train two young activists to be the new infiltrators to sneak into another detention center in Michigan.
这次会议的目的是训练两名年轻的活动分子成为新的渗透者，潜入密歇根州的另一个拘留中心。
The meeting was surreal.
这次会议是超现实的。
The condo belonged to the family of one of the women planning to go in, though her parents had no idea she was planning to do this.
该公寓属于一名计划入住的妇女的家庭，尽管她的父母并不知道她打算这样做。
They weren't home.
他们不在家。
Her brother played video games with a friend while just outside the door, the activists sat around the kitchen table, discussing what the women should expect when ICE brings them into custody.
她的兄弟在门外和一位朋友玩电子游戏，活动人士围坐在厨房的桌子旁，讨论当 ICE 将她们拘留时，这些女性应该期待什么。
They're going to ask you about your family, at which point you can choose to answer or not, right?
他们会询问你的家庭情况，此时你可以选择回答或不回答，对吧？
About your family?
关于你的家人？
Yeah, you can choose to answer or not, but I mean, obviously, don't say anything.
是的，你可以选择回答或不回答，但我的意思是，显然，不要说什么。
And so that's the part I was talking to you about yesterday.
这就是我昨天和你们谈论的部分。
Did you answer--
你回答了吗——
Maybe the most striking thing about seeing all this, though is how different it was from the early videos of the activists preparing for Broward.
也许看到这一切最引人注目的事情是，它与活动人士为布劳沃德做准备的早期视频有多么不同。
Those videos exist.
这些视频是存在的。
I've seen them.
我见过他们。
And in those, it's clear that nobody has too much of an idea about what they're doing.
在这些中，很明显没有人对自己在做什么有太多的了解。
It feels like 20-year-olds imagining something they've been taught never to do but otherwise know very little about, with cartoonish ideas about how the cops will treat them.
感觉就像是 20 岁的年轻人想象着一些他们被教导永远不要做但在其他方面知之甚少的事情，对警察将如何对待他们有卡通般的想法。
This night in Raleigh, Viri and Mo tell anecdotes about Florida, strategies for gaining people's trust, how not to attract attention.
今晚在罗利，维里和莫讲述了佛罗里达州的轶事、赢得人们信任的策略以及如何不引起注意。
The two women ask questions, and Mo and Viri explain what to expect in detention.
两名妇女提出问题，莫和维里解释了拘留期间会发生什么。
Their advice is matter of fact and practical.
他们的建议切合实际且实用。
They found a strategy that works, that frees people.
他们找到了一种有效的策略，可以解放人们。
And this summer, they're rolling it out in seven detention centers across the country.
今年夏天，他们将在全国七个拘留中心推行这一举措。
Michigan's just one of them.
密歇根州只是其中之一。
They're not waiting for lawmakers to fix the problem from Washington.
他们不会等待华盛顿的立法者解决问题。
When all this started, infiltration felt outlandish and risky.
当这一切开始时，渗透感觉怪异且危险。
Now, it just seems pragmatic.
现在看来，这似乎很务实。
Michael May.
迈克尔·梅.
He also wrote a version of this story for American Prospect Magazine .
他还为《美国展望》杂志写了这个故事的一个版本。
Thanks to filmmaker Alex Rivera, who's working on a movie about this and provided audio of the activists when they got detained.
感谢电影制片人亚历克斯·里维拉（Alex Rivera），他正在制作一部有关此事的电影，并提供了活动人士被拘留时的音频。
Coming up, disobeying a rule that is so important in your family that you wait half your lifetime before admitting it to your parents.
即将到来，违反了一条在你的家庭中如此重要的规则，以至于你等了半辈子才向父母承认这一点。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's show, "The One Thing You're Not Supposed To Do." We have arrived at Act Two of our program.
今天的节目“你不应该做的一件事”。我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。
Act Two, The Gun Thing You're Not Supposed To Do.
第二幕，你不应该做的枪事。
Christine Gentry grew up in a house in Texas.
克里斯汀·金特里 (Christine Gentry) 在德克萨斯州的一所房子里长大。
And there was one rule in their house that their dad would tell her and her two brothers now and then all through their childhoods, to be sure they would never disobey this rule.
他们家里有一条规则，在他们的童年时期，他们的父亲会时不时地告诉她和她的两个兄弟，以确保他们永远不会违反这条规则。
And everybody in the family thought she never had disobeyed this rule until this past Christmas.
直到去年圣诞节，家里的每个人都认为她从未违反过这条规则。
This past Christmas, she went home to see her family from New York City, where she lives now.
去年圣诞节，她从她现在居住的纽约市回家看望家人。
And one night, she was with her family.
一天晚上，她和家人在一起。
They went out to a sports bar for dinner.
他们去一家运动酒吧吃晚饭。
Here's Christine's mom, Jan.
这是克里斯汀的妈妈简。
Well, we were all sitting around at Buffalo Wild Wings, Matt, our son who'd just gotten out of the Marines, his wife, and Ron and I.
好吧，我们都坐在布法罗野翼，马特，我们刚从海军陆战队退役的儿子，他的妻子，还有罗恩和我。
And we were just enjoying our company.
我们只是很享受我们的陪伴。
Ron, by the way, is Christine's dad.
顺便说一句，罗恩是克里斯汀的父亲。
Anyway, here's Christine.
无论如何，这是克里斯汀。
And because it was a sports bar, there were these screens everywhere.
因为那是一家体育酒吧，所以到处都有这些屏幕。
And because Sandy Hook had just happened, almost every screen in the place had some kind of news program running about it.
由于桑迪·胡克事件刚刚发生，几乎每个屏幕上都在播放有关此事的新闻节目。
I remember us sitting at the bar, and we were arguing about Sandy Hook.
我记得我们坐在酒吧里，正在争论桑迪·胡克的事。
I think the beers hadn't even arrived.
我想啤酒还没到。
They start talking.
他们开始说话。
I was like, oh boy, here we go.
我当时想，天哪，我们开始吧。
Like, I know that this is going to be used-- now they are going to come for our guns.
就像，我知道这会被使用——现在他们会来拿我们的枪。
Like, that's what's going to happen.
就像，这就是将会发生的事情。
I mean, we definitely feel that that sparked a movement for the government to come after the guns and not necessarily come into our homes and take them, but they were already starting to pass gun bills and gun right laws.
我的意思是，我们肯定认为这引发了一场运动，要求政府追查枪支，不一定要进入我们的家并拿走它们，但他们已经开始通过枪支法案和枪支权利法。
And my dad and my brother are both wearing these brand new NRA hats that they had gone out to buy right after Sandy Hook.
我爸爸和我兄弟都戴着这些全新的 NRA 帽子，是他们在桑迪胡克之后出去买的。
Sandy Hook happened, and they thought, we have to stand up for what we believe in.
桑迪胡克发生了，他们认为，我们必须坚持我们的信仰。
They got new NRA hats?
他们有新的全国步枪协会帽子吗？
I don't believe that that's the case.
我不相信是这样的。
I believe we had already joined the NRA, then seven weeks later, they sent us the caps.
我相信我们已经加入了全国步枪协会，然后七周后，他们给我们寄来了帽子。
They came in the mail.
他们是通过邮件来的。
Ira Glass Christine's dad and mom say, no, she is mistaken about the hats.
艾拉·格拉斯·克里斯汀的爸爸和妈妈说，不，她对帽子的看法是错误的。
No, no, no. Jan Gentry Oh, that's funny.
不，不，不。简·金特里哦，这很有趣。
No, actually, they just came in the mail.
不，实际上，它们只是通过邮件寄来的。
They just came in the mail.
他们刚刚通过邮件到达。
They had nothing to do with that.
他们与此无关。
So Christine's the one blue stater in the family, and she says that she generally tries to keep her beliefs to herself during these kinds of conversations.
所以克里斯汀是家里唯一的蓝州议员，她说，在这类谈话中，她通常会尽力保守自己的信念。
But then the discussion took a turn.
但随后讨论发生了转变。
My dad started blaming Adam Lanza's mother.
我父亲开始责怪亚当·兰扎的母亲。
The shooter's mother.
枪手的母亲。
Christine Gentry Yes.
克里斯汀·金特里 是的。
And I said, well, I think that the mother is as much at fault as the boy that shot the kids.
我说，好吧，我认为这位母亲和枪杀孩子的男孩一样有过错。
And she kind of looked surprised when I said that.
当我这么说时，她看起来有点惊讶。
And Matthew said, yeah, you know, we were taught from an early age not to handle guns and not to do things like that.
马修说，是的，你知道，我们从小就被教导不要拿着枪，不要做类似的事情。
And this finally brings us to the biggest rule of their house when they were growing up.
这最终让我们看到了他们家在成长过程中最大的规则。
Ron collected antique guns.
罗恩收集古董枪。
He hunted.
他打猎。
He taught the kids to shoot and hunt from an early age.
他从小就教孩子们射击和狩猎。
And so there were always lots of guns around the house, maybe 25, 30 guns.
所以房子周围总是有很多枪，也许有 25 支、30 支枪。
One of my earliest memories is actually my dad taking a pistol apart and cleaning it and putting it back together.
我最早的记忆之一实际上是我父亲拆开一把手枪，清洗它，然后重新组装起来。
And he called me over to watch him do it.
他叫我过去看他做这件事。
He said, listen, I want to tell you something about guns.
他说，听着，我想告诉你一些关于枪支的事情。
I don't want you to be afraid of them, but I want you to respect them.
我不希望你害怕他们，但我希望你尊重他们。
And if you ever have any questions, if you ever want to touch one, if you ever want to shoot one, just ask me.
如果你有任何疑问，如果你想触摸一个，如果你想射击一个，就问我吧。
But you are never to touch a gun when I'm not at home, when I'm not here.
但当我不在家、不在这里时，你永远不许碰枪。
OK, so that was the rule.
好吧，这就是规则。
Ron Gentry Oh, absolutely.
罗恩·金特里 哦，当然。
They could never touch a gun unless I was there.
除非我在场，否则他们永远不能碰枪。
And they could never touch a gun unless I physically got it first and made sure that the gun was clear.
他们永远不能碰枪，除非我先拿到枪并确保枪是干净的。
You know, that's what he preached when we were kids to everybody.
你知道，这就是他在我们还是孩子的时候对每个人宣讲的。
Like, all you've got to do is teach your kids how to use them and what to do with them, and everything will be OK.
就像，您所要做的就是教您的孩子如何使用它们以及如何处理它们，一切都会好起来的。
He preaches that to everybody that ever has any questions about firearms and their children.
他向每个对枪支及其孩子有疑问的人宣讲这一点。
So Christine says that she was finding this whole conversation at the bar pretty upsetting.
克里斯汀说，她发现酒吧里的整个谈话非常令人不安。
She was a high school teacher for five years.
她当了五年高中老师。
She still teaches classes in the public schools.
她仍然在公立学校教课。
And she had a very different reaction to Sandy Hook than her dad's and her brother's reactions.
她对桑迪·胡克的反应与她父亲和哥哥的反应截然不同。
And she remembers saying to her dad, OK, so you think that you did everything right as a parent teaching us about guns.
她记得对她的父亲说，好吧，所以你认为作为家长，你在教我们枪支方面做的一切都是正确的。
And he said, yeah, I taught you right.
他说，是的，我教你的是对的。
And Matt chimed in agreeing with her dad.
马特也同意她父亲的观点。
What Matt said was, it was so good that Dad taught us all that and that he taught us never to touch the guns, and we never did.
马特说，爸爸教了我们这一切，他教我们永远不要碰枪，而我们从来没有碰过，这真是太好了。
And at that point, Christine got very emotional and actually kind of tearfully broke down and said, that's not true.
那时，克里斯汀变得非常情绪化，实际上泪流满面地说，那不是真的。
And then that's when she went into her story about what had happened.
然后她开始讲述所发生的事情。
Here's the story.
故事是这样的。
Back in her junior year of high school, Christine was in this play where her character in the play committed suicide.
早在高中三年级时，克里斯汀就在这部剧中，她在剧中扮演的角色自杀了。
One day, her parents were out at one of Matt's soccer games, and Christine was home babysitting with her little brother, Derek, who was around eight at the time.
有一天，她的父母出去观看马特的一场足球比赛，克里斯汀正在家里照顾她当时八岁左右的弟弟德里克。
And Christine was in her room rehearsing this scene where she's supposed to shoot herself.
克里斯汀正在她的房间里排练这个她应该开枪自杀的场景。
When I had this thought.
当我有这个念头的时候。
I was like, man, this would be so much more intense if I was rehearsing with a real gun.
我当时想，伙计，如果我用真枪排练的话，这会更加激烈。
And I know where to get one.
我知道哪里可以买到。
I walked into my parents room, I shut the door, I sat on their bed, and I opened my mom's underwear drawer where I knew my dad kept the gun-- that I'd shot multiple times.
我走进父母的房间，关上门，坐在他们的床上，打开妈妈的内衣抽屉，我知道爸爸放着那把枪——我已经开枪多次了。
And the pistol that we keep in our bedroom was a semi-automatic with a clip.
我们卧室里放的手枪是一把带弹夹的半自动手枪。
I took the clip out, and I started rehearsing.
我拿出剪辑，开始排练。
OK, so you took the clip out.
好的，所以你把夹子拿出来了。
Christine Gentry Forgetting, of course, about the bullet in the chamber.
克里斯汀·金特里 当然，忘记了枪膛里的子弹。
Because there's still one bullet in the chamber if you take the clip out.
因为如果你把弹夹取出来，弹膛里还有一颗子弹。
Exactly.
确切地。
Ira Glass She pointed the gun at her head, was about to pull the trigger, and then this thought popped into the back of her mind.
艾拉·格拉斯 她把枪指着自己的头，正要扣动扳机，然后这个念头突然出现在她的脑海里。
She thought for a second, I'd better check it just to make sure that it's not loaded.
她想了想，我最好检查一下，确保它没有加载。
And she pointed it at the floor and squeezed the trigger, and it went off.
她把它指向地板并扣动扳机，它就爆炸了。
It was an absolutely terrifying moment, probably my biggest secret.
这绝对是一个可怕的时刻，可能是我最大的秘密。
I never told anybody.
我从来没有告诉过任何人。
And I didn't shoot a gun after.
然后我就没有开枪了。
I didn't want to touch one again, and I haven't.
我不想再碰它，我也没有碰过。
Her little brother, hearing the blast, ran into the bedroom, and she told him that it was just a car backfiring outside.
她的弟弟听到爆炸声跑进卧室，她告诉他只是外面有一辆汽车在回火。
He left, and she poked around the floor until she found the bullet hole.
他离开了，她在地板上摸索，直到找到弹孔。
We didn't have a finished basement.
我们还没有完工的地下室。
It was just mud beneath our house.
我们房子下面只是泥土。
And it had gone through into that mud.
它已经进入了泥浆中。
And my parents had this really old shag carpet that I was able to tease enough with my fingernails to cover up the hole.
我父母有一张非常旧的长毛地毯，我可以用指甲梳理它来掩盖这个洞。
And I remember my dad being very upset.
我记得我父亲非常沮丧。
He actually-- I think he cried.
他实际上——我想他哭了。
We all did.
我们都这么做了。
Ron Gentry Yeah.
罗恩·金特里 是的。
Yeah, we all did.
是的，我们都这么做了。
And what were you feeling at that moment?
那一刻你感觉如何？
When she first told you, Ron, what did you feel?
当她第一次告诉你时，罗恩，你有什么感觉？
At first, disbelief.
起初，难以置信。
Christine couldn't have done that.
克里斯汀不可能这么做。
Not Christie.
不是克里斯蒂。
No, she would have never done that.
不，她绝不会那么做。
But then I realized that, yes, it happened.
但后来我意识到，是的，它发生了。
And then what if it really would have killed her?
如果这真的会杀了她怎么办？
She'd have been laying there when we came home.
当我们回家时她已经躺在那里了。
We'd have never known what happened.
我们永远不知道发生了什么。
My daughter was dead.
我女儿死了。
She blew her brains out.
她把她的脑子打碎了。
Why did she do that?
她为什么这么做？
What did we do?
我们做了什么？
What's going on?
这是怎么回事？
Whether she committed suicide, whether it was an accident, I mean, how would you know?
她是否自杀，是否是一场意外，我的意思是，你怎么知道？
That is the craziest thing that if the gun had gone off, you would have just thought, like, she killed herself?
这是最疯狂的事情，如果枪响了，你会想，就像，她自杀了？
But why?
但为什么？
And then, you know, I can imagine a family after that thinking, well, do you think she was rehearsing for her play?
然后，你知道，我可以想象一个家庭在那之后会想，好吧，你认为她是在排练她的戏剧吗？
And then everybody would go, no, that's ridiculous.
然后每个人都会走，不，这太荒谬了。
No, because that wouldn't have been Christine.
不，因为那不会是克里斯汀。
She's always very obedient.
她总是很听话。
And I'm very thankful that she shared it with us.
我非常感谢她与我们分享。
And so did she convince you?
那么她说服了你吗？
Jan Gentry Of what?
简·金特里 什么？
That you can do everything right and still--
你可以把一切都做对而且仍然——
Oh, absolutely.
哦，绝对是。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
I taught them the right way to do it.
我教他们正确的做法。
At 17 years old, you think, it's sunk in.
17岁的时候，你想，它已经沉沦了。
It's done.
完成了。
And you find out that you're wrong.
然后你发现你错了。
Wait, so you're saying that if she had actually succeeded in shooting herself, you would have blamed yourself.
等等，所以你是说如果她真的成功开枪自杀，你就会责怪自己。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
How could you not?
你怎么能不呢？
How could you not?
你怎么能不呢？
It's a second from going either direction.
距离任一方向都只有一秒钟。
One second.
一秒钟。
It could have been either way.
两种情况都可能是这样。
One second's all it was.
一秒钟就够了。
What do you think would have happened if she would have told you when she was 16 that she had done this?
如果她在 16 岁时告诉你她做了这件事，你认为会发生什么？
Well, personally, I think a lot of things would have changed.
嗯，就我个人而言，我认为很多事情都会改变。
I would have probably-- at that particular time, I probably would have bought a safe, a small hand safe with-- you put your fingerprints on it, you can get it open, to where somebody couldn't have got a hold of it.
我可能——在那个特定的时间，我可能会买一个保险箱，一个小手保险箱——你把指纹放在上面，你就可以打开它，到别人无法拿到它的地方。
Correct.
正确的。
And I would think that maybe I would have been a little bit more thoughtful about what I told other people.
我想也许我会对我告诉其他人的事情更加深思熟虑。
He means the advice that he was always giving people about kids and guns.
他指的是他总是向人们提供有关儿童和枪支的建议。
A couple months after this Christmas conversation, Jan and Ron took all the handguns out of their house, they were so upset about it.
这次圣诞节谈话几个月后，简和罗恩把所有的手枪都带出了他们的房子，他们对此感到非常沮丧。
Now those guns are back, but when friends' children come over to the house, the guns are locked away.
现在那些枪又回来了，但是当朋友的孩子来到家里时，枪就被锁起来了。
Ron's not getting rid of his guns.
罗恩并没有扔掉他的枪。
His views of gun ownership and gun rights have not changed.
他对枪支所有权和枪支权利的看法没有改变。
He still thinks the media does not give enough coverage to the millions of gun owners who safely own their weapons and have great experiences hunting and shooting with their kids and do not do crazy stuff with their guns.
他仍然认为媒体没有对数以百万计的枪支拥有者进行足够的报道，他们安全地拥有自己的武器，并且与孩子一起打猎和射击，并且没有用枪支做出疯狂的事情。
He's probably right about that.
他可能是对的。
The only thing that's changed is that he thinks he should have locked up his weapons when he wasn't at home.
唯一改变的是，他认为自己不在家时应该把武器锁起来。
Christine still feels a little embarrassed that she dropped this story that was so upsetting for her parents onto them to win an argument about Sandy Hook.
克里斯汀仍然感到有点尴尬，因为她为了赢得一场关于桑迪·胡克的争论而把这个让她父母如此不安的故事抛给了他们。
And as for her brother Matt, well, his reaction that night was very different from his parents'.
至于她的弟弟马特，嗯，他那天晚上的反应与他父母的非常不同。
I just kept calling her how stupid she was and, like, she must have been adopted.
我只是一直说她多么愚蠢，而且，她一定是被收养的。
And my sister asked me if it changed anything the way I would do, or when I have kids, would I do exactly what Dad did, or would I change it?
我姐姐问我，这是否会改变我做事的方式，或者当我有孩子时，我会像爸爸那样做，还是会改变？
And I told her, no. I wouldn't change anything.
我告诉她，不。我不会改变任何事情。
So your plan is when you have kids, they're not going to be idiots like your sister.
所以你的计划是当你有孩子时，他们不会像你姐姐一样白痴。
Right.
正确的。
Ira Glass You know I'm making a joke here, right?
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：你知道我在开玩笑，对吧？
Yeah.
是的。
Well if they are, I'll lock them in the closet, give them a food bowl or something.
好吧，如果是的话，我会把他们锁在壁橱里，给他们一个食物碗什么的。
[MUSIC - "DON'T DO IT" BY RUSTY YORK AND WILLARD HALE]
[音乐 - RUSTY YORK 和 WILLARD HALE 的“Don't Do It”]
Act Three, Out of the Woods.
第三幕，走出困境。
OK, this last story is about a moose-- that's right, a moose-- who does not just do the one thing that you probably shouldn't do as a moose, he does, like, a series of them.
好吧，最后一个故事是关于一只驼鹿——没错，一只驼鹿——它不仅做了一件你作为驼鹿可能不应该做的事情，他还做了一系列的事情。
This story comes from Ben Loory.
这个故事来自本·洛里。
A moose is standing in the forest when he suddenly hears a noise.
一只驼鹿站在森林里，突然听到一声响动。
He looks up and sees a plane flying overhead.
他抬起头，看到一架飞机从头顶飞过。
As he watches, a man jumps out.
正当他看的时候，一个男人跳了出来。
A parachute bursts open, and the man floats safely down.
降落伞突然打开，男子安全地飘落下来。
The moose goes over and looks at him.
驼鹿走过去看着他。
"Hello," says the man, gathering in his parachute.
“你好，”那个男人一边说，一边收起降落伞。
"Hello," says the moose.
“你好，”驼鹿说。
"What are you doing?" "Oh, nothing," says the man, "nothing much.
“你在干什么？” “哦，没什么，”那人说，“没什么。
I just jump out of planes every now and then."
我只是时不时地从飞机上跳下来。”
The moose looks up at the sky.
驼鹿抬头看着天空。
"Is it fun?" he says.
“好玩吗？”他说。
"Oh, yes," says the man.
“哦，是的，”男人说。
"Have you never done it?" "Me?" says the moose.
“你从来没有做过吗？” “我？”驼鹿说。
"Oh, no." "Well, come along with me," says the man.
“哦，不。” “好吧，跟我来吧，”男人说道。
"We'll go back to town and get you all suited up, and then off we'll go.
“我们会回城给你们换好衣服，然后我们就出发。
What do you say?"
你说什么？”
"I don't know," says the moose.
“我不知道，”驼鹿说。
"Isn't it dangerous?" "Dangerous?" says the man.
“不危险吗？” “危险的？”那人说。
"No, not at all.
“不，一点也不。
Well, a little, but hey, isn't everything?" "I guess," says the moose, "when you put it that way."
嗯，有一点，但是嘿，不是全部吗？” “我想，”驼鹿说，“当你这么说的时候。”
And after a while, he starts to nod.
过了一会儿，他开始点头。
"All right," he says, "OK." "Great," says the man.
“好吧，”他说，“好吧。” “太好了，”男人说。
"You're going to love it." And he claps the moose on the back, and the two of them start off.
“你会喜欢它的。”他拍拍驼鹿的背，两个人就出发了。
When they get to the edge of the city, the moose suddenly stops.
当他们到达城市边缘时，驼鹿突然停了下来。
"What about the people?" he says.
“那人呢？”他说。
"What about them?" says the man.
“那他们呢？”那人说。
"Well," says the moose, "I'm not saying that I'm afraid of them, understand.
“嗯，”驼鹿说，“我并不是说我害怕它们，明白吧。
But they're always out in the woods looking at me.
但他们总是在树林里看着我。
It makes me nervous.
这让我很紧张。
I don't know what they want."
我不知道他们想要什么。”
"Hm," says the man.
“嗯，”男人说。
"I doubt they want anything.
“我怀疑他们想要什么。
But OK, here's what we'll do." He takes an extra t-shirt and hat out of his bag.
但好吧，这就是我们要做的。”他从包里拿出一件额外的 T 恤和帽子。
"Put these on.
“把这些穿上。
Nobody will recognize you," he says.
没有人会认出你，”他说。
The moose looks at the offered disguise for a moment.
驼鹿看了一会儿所提供的伪装。
"All right," he says, and puts it on.
“好吧，”他说，然后戴上它。
The man and the moose wander into town.
男人和驼鹿漫步进城。
The moose is very, very nervous.
驼鹿非常非常紧张。
"Hey, Tom," someone says, and a group of people come over.
“嘿，汤姆，”有人说道，然后一群人走了过来。
"How'd your jump go today, and who's that?"
“你今天跳得怎么样？那是谁？”
The man turns and looks at the moose.
男人转身看着驼鹿。
"This is my friend, Lawrence," he says.
“这是我的朋友，劳伦斯，”他说。
"He just came in from the coast." "Quite a grip you've got there, Lawrence," says one of the men.
“他刚从海岸回来。” “劳伦斯，你的控制力很强，”其中一名男子说道。
"Are you bringing Lawrence to the party?" says another.
“你要带劳伦斯来参加聚会吗？”另一位说。
"Shoot," says the man, looking at the moose.
“开枪，”那人看着驼鹿说道。
"I completely forgot about that.
“我完全忘记了这一点。
You mind coming along to this thing tonight?
你介意今晚一起来参加这件事吗？
It's sort of a shindig for my most recent jump." "Sure," says the moose, feeling self-conscious, "Sure.
这对我最近的一次跳跃来说是一次盛大的活动。” “当然，”驼鹿不好意思地说，“当然。
That'll be fine."
这样就可以了。”
That night the man and the moose go to the party.
那天晚上，男人和驼鹿去参加聚会。
It is at the Explorers Club.
它位于探险家俱乐部。
There are a number of long tables arranged in a square.
广场上摆着好几张长桌。
The man and the moose are in the place of honor.
人和驼鹿处于荣誉位置。
The moose is having a wonderful time.
驼鹿正在享受一段美好的时光。
The food is really very good.
食物真的非常好。
Different people make different speeches, and the moose finds the waitress quite fascinating.
不同的人有不同的演讲，驼鹿觉得女服务员很迷人。
But then, suddenly, something draws his attention-- heads, animal heads.
但突然，有什么东西引起了他的注意——人头，动物的头。
They're lining the walls all around the top-- lion, zebra, deer, elk, and moose.
它们排列在顶部周围的墙壁上——狮子、斑马、鹿、麋鹿和驼鹿。
Fear grips the moose's heart.
恐惧抓住了驼鹿的心。
"Killers," he thinks, looking around the room.
“杀手，”他环视房间，心里想。
"What is it?" says the man, sensing trouble.
“那是什么？”那人说道，感觉到了麻烦。
The moose turns and looks at him in horror.
驼鹿转过身来，惊恐地看着他。
"You're trying to kill me," he says, his voice a whisper.
“你想杀了我，”他说道，声音低沉。
"You brought me here to kill me." "What?" says the man.
“你带我来这里就是为了杀我。” “什么？”那人说。
"Why would I do that?
“我为什么要这么做？
I don't understand."
我不明白。”
But the moose is too scared to explain.
但驼鹿太害怕了，无法解释。
He stumbles backward to his feet.
他跌跌撞撞地向后站了起来。
He points a hoof at the abomination on the wall.
他用蹄子指着墙上的怪物。
The man sees it, then his eyes go wide.
男人看到了，然后他的眼睛睁大了。
"My god," he says, "I just didn't think." He reaches out to reassure the moose, but his hand grabs the t-shirt, and it rips and falls off.
“天哪，”他说，“我只是没想到。”他伸出手来安抚驼鹿，但他的手抓住了 T 恤，它撕破了，掉了下来。
And then, to make matters worse, the moose's hat tumbles to the floor.
然后，更糟糕的是，驼鹿的帽子掉到了地板上。
Everybody turns.
众人皆转。
"A moose," they cry.
“一头驼鹿，”他们喊道。
"Get him.
“抓住他。
Get him.
抓住他。
Get the guns." The moose takes off.
拿枪来。”驼鹿起飞了。
He galumphs out of the ballroom, knocking people over left and right.
他昂首阔步地走出舞厅，把左右的人都撞倒了。
He barrels through the doors and off down the hall.
他冲进门，穿过大厅。
The members of the Explorers Club are striking the glass on the gun cases.
探险家俱乐部的成员正在敲击枪箱上的玻璃。
"Hurry," they are yelling, "It's a big one, the biggest."
“快点，”他们喊道，“这是一个很大的，最大的。”
The moose careens out into the street.
驼鹿倾斜到街道上。
He's weaving in and out of cars.
他在车里穿来穿去。
There's honking and screaming.
有喇叭声和尖叫声。
The moose has never been so terrified.
驼鹿从来没有这么害怕过。
"Wait, wait," cries a voice.
“等等，等等，”一个声音喊道。
The moose looks back.
驼鹿回头看了一眼。
It's the man running after him.
是那个追他的人。
"I'm sorry," yells the man.
“对不起，”男人喊道。
"I didn't think.
“我没想到。
I'm so stupid.
我真是太傻了
I'll make it up to you.
我会弥补你的。
I'll get you out of this, I swear."
我会救你脱离困境，我发誓。”
"Are you kidding?" yells the moose.
“你在开玩笑吧？”驼鹿喊道。
"Why should I trust you?" Just then, gunfire erupts.
“我为什么要相信你？”就在这时，枪声响起。
It's the Explorers Club hot on their trail.
探险家俱乐部正在紧锣密鼓地追踪他们的踪迹。
Bullets whiz past, close, closer.
子弹呼啸而过，越来越近，越来越近。
"I can take you to the plane," says the man.
“我可以带你去飞机，”那人说。
"It's your only chance."
“这是你唯一的机会。”
The moose thinks.
驼鹿想。
Another bullet whizzes by.
又一颗子弹呼啸而过。
"All right," the moose yells.
“好吧，”驼鹿喊道。
"Climb on." The man jumps on, and the two of them charge through the streets.
“爬上去。”那人跳了上去，两人冲过街道。
"Turn left," yells the man, and the moose turns.
“向左转，”那人喊道，驼鹿就转过身来。
Up ahead is the airfield, behind, the men with guns, getting closer with every passing second.
前面是机场，后面是持枪的人，每一秒都在靠近。
"There's the plane," the man hollers, and the two dive on board.
“飞机来了，”那人喊道，两人跳上飞机。
The man guns it, and the plane taxis toward the runway.
男子开枪，飞机滑向跑道。
Behind them, the Explorers Club lines up in a row.
在他们身后，探险家俱乐部排成一排。
"Fire," says the leader.
“开火，”领导说。
"Fire more."
“再开火一点。”
The plane is hit in 10,000 places, but still, it manages to lift off.
这架飞机被击中了一万处，但它仍然成功升空。
Behind it trails a cloud of smoke and fire that is terrifying to behold.
在它的后面拖着一团烟雾和火焰，看起来很可怕。
"We're not going to make it!" the man yells to the moose.
“我们不会成功的！”男人对驼鹿大喊。
"We're going to have to jump." He turns and looks for the parachutes, but there is only one.
“我们必须跳下去。”他转身寻找降落伞，但只有一个。
"You take it," says the man, pushing it to the moose.
“你拿着它，”男人说着，把它推给了驼鹿。
But the moose just stares at it in silence.
但驼鹿只是默默地盯着它。
"No, you," says the moose.
“不，是你，”驼鹿说。
"I don't even know how to use it.
“我什至不知道如何使用它。
Besides, I wouldn't have gotten this far without you."
再说了，如果没有你，我也不会走到这一步。”
The man thinks for a moment.
男人想了一会儿。
"We go together," he finally says.
“我们一起去，”他最后说道。
"It might work.
“这可能会起作用。
It might not.
可能不会。
Who knows?"
谁知道？”
He straps the parachute around them both and edges the moose toward the door.
他把降落伞绑在他们身上，然后把驼鹿推向门口。
"On the count of three," the man says.
“数到三，”男人说。
And the moose jumps.
驼鹿跳了起来。
The man and the moose plummet through the air.
男人和驼鹿从空中坠落。
"Is that the forest," the moose calls, "down there?" "Yes," says the man.
“那是森林吗？”驼鹿喊道，“下面就是森林吗？” “是的，”男人说。
"Isn't it pretty?" "It is," says the moose.
“不是很漂亮吗？” “是的，”驼鹿说。
"I can see why you like doing this."
“我明白你为什么喜欢这样做。”
At this point, the ground is coming up pretty fast.
此时，地面的上升速度相当快。
"All right," says the man, "moment of truth." The two grip the pull cord tightly together.
“好吧，”那人说，“关键时刻。”两人将拉绳紧紧地握在一起。
"I hope we can be friends," says the moose.
“我希望我们能成为朋友，”驼鹿说。
Ben Loory-- so good, right-- reading a story from his collection of short fiction.
本·洛里（Ben Loory）——太好了，对——正在读他的短篇小说集中的一个故事。
It's called Stories for Nighttime and Some for the Day.
它被称为夜间故事和白天故事。
[MUSIC - "WOKE UP THIS MORNING (THEME FROM THE SOPRANOS)" BY ALABAMA 3]
[音乐 - “今早醒来（黑道家族主题曲）”，作者：ALABAMA 3]
Our program is produced today by Robyn Semien and myself with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Sarah Koenig, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Lisa Pollak, Brian Reed, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Robyn Semien 和我本人以及 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Sarah Koenig、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Lisa Pollak、Brian Reed、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Production help from Thea Bennen.
Thea Bennen 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon is our production manager.
艾米丽·康登 (Emily Condon) 是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson is our administrative assistant.
埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的行政助理。
Research by Michelle Harris.
米歇尔·哈里斯的研究。
Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddes.
Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddes 提供音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGMENTS] Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
[致谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
WBEZ management oversight for our program by our boss, Torey Malatia, who has been doing a lot of flamenco dancing-- that's right, flamenco dancing-- on the sly.
我们的老板托里·马拉蒂亚 (Torey Malatia) 对我们的项目进行 WBEZ 管理监督，他一直在偷偷地跳很多弗拉门戈舞——没错，弗拉门戈舞。
He sneaks into these fancy parties.
他偷偷溜进了这些华丽的聚会。
He dances a while, until somebody spots him and declares--
他跳了一会儿舞，直到有人发现他并宣布——
[SPEAKING SPANISH] They're like, the infiltrator.
[说西班牙语]他们就像渗透者。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of this American life.
下周我们将带来更多有关美国生活的故事。
[MUSIC - "WOKE UP THIS MORNING (THEME FROM THE SOPRANOS)" BY ALABAMA 3]
[音乐 - “今早醒来（黑道家族主题曲）”，作者：ALABAMA 3]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。