496: When Patents Attack... Part Two! - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #496 | May 31, 2013 496: When Patents Attack...
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 496 集 | 2013 年 5 月 31 日 496：当专利受到攻击时......
Part Two!
第二部分！
Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass OK.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 好的。
I listen to a lot of podcasts.
我听很多播客。
I host a radio show that is distributed as a podcast.
我主持一个以播客形式发布的广播节目。
So I had a special interest in some interviews that one of my colleagues, Zoe Chace, did recently.
因此，我对我的一位同事 Zoe Chace 最近进行的一些采访特别感兴趣。
She's one of the reporters for Planet Money, which itself is a podcast.
她是《金钱星球》的记者之一，《金钱星球》本身就是一个播客。
Zoe was interviewing these two guys, Jim Logan and Richard Baker, who say that their company, Personal Audio, holds the patent on podcasts.
佐伊正在采访吉姆·洛根和理查德·贝克这两个人，他们说他们的公司“个人音频”拥有播客的专利。
And basically, anybody who makes a podcast owes them money.
基本上，任何制作播客的人都欠他们钱。
Zoe pointed out to them that their interview was going to be used on a podcast that has not paid them.
佐伊向他们指出，他们的采访将用于一个尚未向他们付费的播客。
So are we doing something illegal right now, though?
那么我们现在正在做违法的事情吗？
I wouldn't comment on that.
我不会对此发表评论。
Man I wouldn't comment on it.
伙计，我不会对此发表评论。
We don't-- I don't comment on the legalities.
我们不——我不评论合法性。
Jim Logan says that he is one of the inventors of podcasting, even though he has never made a podcast himself.
吉姆·洛根说，他是播客的发明者之一，尽管他自己从未制作过播客。
Here's how he figures.
他是这样算的。
His company Personal Audio, back at the dawn of the internet age in 1996-- this is before the iPod existed-- it's before most homes were on the internet-- they decided to manufacture an MP3 player that would do all kinds of stuff that nobody seemed to be doing just yet, like downloading sound from the internet.
他的公司 Personal Audio 早在 1996 年互联网时代刚刚开始的时候——那时 iPod 还没有出现——也就是大多数家庭还没有上网之前——他们决定制造一款 MP3 播放器，它可以做各种似乎还没有人做的事情，比如从互联网下载声音。
And Jim says they filed for a patent.
吉姆说他们申请了专利。
We didn't use these words back then.
那时我们没有用过这些词。
But buried within that patent description were ideas such as playlist and podcasting.
但该专利描述中隐藏着播放列表和播客等想法。
They tried to design and manufacture their newfangled MP3 player for about a year, he says.
他说，他们花了大约一年的时间来尝试设计和制造新型 MP3 播放器。
And they failed.
但他们失败了。
They gave up.
他们放弃了。
So they never actually succeeded in making a device that could download audio off the internet and play it.
因此，他们从未真正成功地制造出可以从互联网下载音频并播放的设备。
They never made a podcast.
他们从未制作过播客。
Instead, they switched to a different technology-- an earlier technology.
相反，他们转向了另一种技术——一种更早的技术。
They decided to distribute magazine articles on cassette tapes.
他们决定用盒式磁带分发杂志文章。
--which was kind of a crude form of podcasting, you might say.
——你可能会说，这是一种原始的播客形式。
In this version of the history of podcasting, this right here would be one of the very first podcasts.
在这个版本的播客历史中，这将是最早的播客之一。
And there is nothing digital about it at all.
而且它根本就没有什么数字化的东西。
This is one of those old cassette tapes.
这是其中一盘旧盒式磁带。
These guys brought a stack of them to the interview.
这些人带了一大堆去面试。
Welcome to "Amazing-- the Best of Popular Science," brought to you by Magazines on Tape.
欢迎收看《磁带杂志》为您带来的《神奇——最佳科普科学》。
Coming up, answers to some questions you have probably wondered about.
接下来，您可能想知道一些问题的答案。
What happens in your head when you have a headache?
当你头痛时你的大脑会发生什么？
How does quicksand work?
流沙如何发挥作用？
Why does your car--
为什么你的车——
This business also failed.
这个生意也失败了。
But the way our patent system works, even though these guys never successfully created a system that took podcasts from the internet and put them into a portable audio player, they patented the idea that such a thing could happen.
但我们的专利系统的运作方式是，尽管这些人从未成功创建一个从互联网上获取播客并将其放入便携式音频播放器的系统，但他们为这种事情可能发生的想法申请了专利。
And now that other people have figured out how to do it, they want to get paid.
现在其他人已经知道如何做到这一点，他们希望获得报酬。
It's only fair, Jim Logan told Zoe.
这是公平的，吉姆·洛根告诉佐伊。
I put my dollars and my time and my energy on the line.
我赌上了我的金钱、时间和精力。
I took the market risk.
我承担了市场风险。
And I went to market 10 years before people say that podcasting was invented in 2005.
我进入市场的时间比人们说播客是在 2005 年发明的还要早 10 年。
We were out there in-- well, not 10 years.
我们在那里——嗯，不是十年。
We were out there in 1998, probably, with an offering.
我们可能在 1998 年就推出了产品。
But I mean, these are cassette tapes.
但我的意思是，这些是盒式磁带。
Like, this is not the iPhone.
就像，这不是 iPhone。
Well, remember, the patent talks to having it very similar to an iPhone-- a computerized device that would do this.
好吧，请记住，该专利谈到让它与 iPhone 非常相似——一种可以做到这一点的计算机化设备。
What was happening there is they couldn't get the product done.
那里发生的事情是他们无法完成产品。
These guys say that for now, they're not asking nonprofit podcasters, like our program, to pay them licensing fees-- just for-profit podcast businesses, like Adam Carolla and The Stuff You Should Know podcast, which is owned by Discovery Communications, and Marc Maron's comedy podcast, WTF, which Maron produces literally in his garage.
这些人说，目前他们不会要求像我们的节目这样的非营利性播客向他们支付许可费——只是向营利性播客企业支付许可费，比如 Adam Carolla 和 Discovery Communications 旗下的 The Stuff You Should Know 播客，以及 Marc Maron 的喜剧播客 WTF，Maron 在他的车库里制作该播客。
There's no way I can afford to fight a court battle.
我根本无力打官司。
And they know that.
他们知道这一点。
--which means he probably has to pay, though the letter he got doesn't specify a price.
——这意味着他可能必须付款，尽管他收到的信中没有具体说明价格。
Why wouldn't they have a number?
为什么他们没有电话号码？
Why don't they have a percentage in mind or a number that they think is justified?
为什么他们心里没有一个百分比或一个他们认为合理的数字？
Why don't they have that?
为什么他们没有那个？
Why aren't they willing to say that?
为什么他们不愿意这么说呢？
Like, yeah, you all owe us $10.
就像，是的，你们都欠我们 10 美元。
Why are they being cagey about that?
为什么他们对此保持谨慎？
Because it's a shakedown.
因为这是一次震动。
We have a price.
我们有一个价格。
We just don't want to make it public.
我们只是不想公开。
I found Richard Baker of Personal Audio to ask the price myself.
我找到Personal Audio的Richard Baker亲自询问价格。
He wouldn't tell me, either.
他也不肯告诉我。
The reason why I'm asking this is because this podcaster said, if this is a fair price-- if you have a fair claim to make-- why wouldn't you name the price publicly if it's a fair price?
我之所以问这个问题，是因为这位播客说，如果这是一个公平的价格——如果你有一个公平的主张——如果这是一个公平的价格，你为什么不公开公布这个价格呢？
For one, most of our licensees don't want people to know how much they've paid or how many times they're downloading.
其一，我们的大多数被许可人不希望人们知道他们支付了多少钱或下载了多少次。
If we were to give a public price of what it is-- say we settled with someone, and say they paid us $200,000-- someone could easily do the math and figure out exactly what their downloads are.
如果我们要给出一个公开价格——假设我们与某人达成和解，并假设他们支付给我们 20 万美元——那么有人可以轻松地进行数学计算并准确计算出他们的下载量。
Can you see why I'm asking this?
你能明白我为什么问这个吗？
One of the podcasters said, you are not naming a price because it's a shakedown.
一位播客说，你没有给出价格，因为这是一次调整。
It's the secrecy that this podcaster found alarming.
这位播客发现的秘密令人震惊。
Honestly, we believe this is a very, very fair price.
老实说，我们相信这是一个非常非常公平的价格。
Our goal is to make sure these podcasters succeed so that everybody makes money.
我们的目标是确保这些播客取得成功，让每个人都能赚钱。
Settlements that Personal Audio has made in the past with Apple Computer and with some cellphone companies are also not public information.
Personal Audio 过去与苹果电脑和一些手机公司达成的和解也不是公开信息。
And the fact is most patent settlements are not public.
事实上，大多数专利和解协议并不公开。
And you might think, OK, well, so what?
你可能会想，好吧，那又怎样？
But these patent lawsuits are huge.
但这些专利诉讼规模巨大。
And they're on the rise.
而且它们正在上升。
The number of patent lawsuits climbed 50% in one year from 2011 to 2012.
从2011年到2012年，专利诉讼数量在一年内增长了50%。
Entrepreneurs and engineers say these suits hurt and sometimes destroy young companies.
企业家和工程师表示，这些诉讼伤害了甚至有时摧毁了年轻的公司。
They have an effect on the economy, on what we can and cannot do.
它们对经济、我们能做什么和不能做什么都有影响。
But it is very hard to find out exactly what is going on.
但很难弄清楚究竟发生了什么。
A good example-- two years ago, we devoted an episode of our program to the patent system.
一个很好的例子——两年前，我们的节目中有一集专门讨论专利制度。
And we tried to explain what was going on by focusing on the company that some people say is the biggest patent troll out there.
我们试图通过关注一些人所说的最大的专利流氓公司来解释正在发生的事情。
A patent troll is a company that uses patents mostly to sue other companies and ask for licensing fees.
专利流氓是指主要使用专利来起诉其他公司并索要许可费的公司。
And in that show, we investigated this one patent that the company was involved with.
在那次节目中，我们调查了该公司涉及的一项专利。
The inventor whose name was on that patent was Chris Crawford.
该专利上的发明人是克里斯·克劳福德(Chris Crawford)。
And we learned all kinds of things in that investigation.
我们在那次调查中学到了各种各样的东西。
But the world of these lawsuits is so secretive there were basic questions we could not answer, like how much money was involved.
但这些诉讼的世界是如此隐秘，我们无法回答一些基本问题，比如涉及多少钱。
What did Chris Crawford think of what was being done with his patent?
克里斯·克劳福德对他的专利的用途有何看法？
There were 18 companies being sued for infringement on the patent.
共有18家公司因侵犯该专利而被起诉。
What was their opinion?
他们的意见是什么？
How were they handling it?
他们是如何处理的？
Well, two years have passed since then.
嗯，从那时起已经过去了两年。
And I am pleased to say that today-- today-- we can bring you a show where we actually answer the questions that usually in these kinds of cases go unanswered.
我很高兴地说，今天——今天——我们可以为您带来一场节目，我们实际上回答了通常在此类情况下无法回答的问题。
It is a rare look inside this world.
这是这个世界上罕见的景象。
That litigation from two years ago has finished.
两年前的诉讼已经结束。
The silence has been broken.
沉默被打破了。
Many, many facts have emerged that, frankly, kind of stunned us.
坦率地说，已经出现的许多事实让我们感到震惊。
And so today on our show, what we're going to do-- in the first half of the program, we're going to return to that old episode from 2011 explaining the patent and the lawsuit.
所以今天在我们的节目中，我们要做的——在节目的前半部分，我们将回到 2011 年的老剧集来解释专利和诉讼。
And then in the second half, we're going to have the answers to many of the mysteries that were still unsolved two years ago.
然后在下半年，我们将找到两年前仍未解开的许多谜团的答案。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stick around.
留下来。
And with that, I'm going to turn things over to This American Life producer and Planet Money co-host Alex Blumberg and NPR Digital Culture Correspondent Laura Sydell, who report the story.
接下来，我将把事情交给《美国生活》制片人兼《金钱星球》联合主持人 Alex Blumberg 和 NPR 数字文化记者 Laura Sydell，他们将报道这个故事。
Intellectual Ventures, that firm that people in Silicon Valley point to as a quintessential patent troll, was founded by a guy named Nathan Myhrvold.
Intellectual Ventures 是一家被硅谷人称为典型专利流氓的公司，它的创始人是一个名叫内森·梅尔沃德 (Nathan Myhrvold) 的人。
Nathan Myhrvold used to be the chief technology officer at Microsoft, where he made a lot of money-- hundreds of millions of dollars.
内森·梅尔沃德（Nathan Myhrvold）曾经是微软的首席技术官，他在那里赚了很多钱——数亿美元。
Even if you haven't heard of Intellectual Ventures, you might have heard of Nathan Myhrvold.
即使您没有听说过 Intellectual Ventures，您也可能听说过 Nathan Myhrvold。
My guest tonight has written a six-volume book on cutting-edge food made with modern science.
今晚我的客人写了一本关于用现代科学制作的尖端食品的六卷书。
Please welcome Nathan Myhrvold.
欢迎内森·梅尔沃德。
This is Myhrvold on the television show The Colbert Report, talking about another one of his ventures-- an opus on the science of cooking, which teaches you how to do things like make ice cream with liquid nitrogen.
这是梅尔沃德在电视节目《科尔伯特报告》中谈论他的另一项事业——一本关于烹饪科学的著作，它教你如何做一些事情，比如用液氮制作冰淇淋。
Myhrvold is the kind of guy the press loves to profile.
米尔沃德是媒体喜欢报道的那种人。
Yep.
是的。
Stephen Colbert You've discovered T.
斯蒂芬·科尔伯特 你发现了 T.
rex fossils.
霸王龙化石。
You've studied quantum physics with Stephen Hawking.
您已经跟随史蒂芬·霍金学习了量子物理学。
And you have a new six-volume, 40-pound, $625 book--
你有一本新的六卷本，重 40 磅，价值 625 美元——
But this image of Nathan Myhrvold, who gives TED Talks and generally plays the role of an avuncular elder statesman for the tech industry, is at odds with the image of his company, Intellectual Ventures.
但内森·梅尔沃德 (Nathan Myhrvold) 的形象与他的公司 Intellectual Ventures 的形象不一致。内森·梅尔沃德在 TED 演讲中经常扮演科技行业一位慈祥的元老政治家的角色。
--because Intellectual Ventures has amassed one of the largest patent portfolios in existence.
——因为 Intellectual Ventures 已经积累了现有最大的专利组合之一。
There's an influential blog in Silicon Valley called Techdirt, which regularly refers to Intellectual Ventures as a patent troll.
硅谷有一个颇具影响力的博客，名为 Techdirt，经常将 Intellectual Ventures 称为专利流氓。
Another blog, IPWatchdog, called Intellectual Ventures "patent troll public enemy number one." And The Wall Street Journal's Law Blog had an article about Intellectual Ventures titled "Innovative Invention Company or Giant Patent Troll?"
另一个博客 IPWatchdog 将 Intellectual Ventures 称为“专利流氓头号公敌”。 《华尔街日报》的法律博客有一篇关于知识产权风险投资的文章，题为“创新发明公司还是巨型专利巨魔？”
Are you a patent troll?
您是专利流氓吗？
Nathan Myhrvold [CHUCKLING] Well, that's a term that has been used by people to mean someone they don't like who has patents.
Nathan Myhrvold [咯咯笑]嗯，这个词被人们用来指代他们不喜欢的拥有专利的人。
I think you would find almost anyone who stands up for their patent rights has been called a patent troll.
我想你会发现几乎所有维护专利权的人都被称为专利流氓。
Intellectual Ventures says Myhrvold is anything but a patent troll.
Intellectual Ventures 表示 Myhrvold 绝不是专利流氓。
They're on the side of inventors.
他们站在发明家一边。
They pay inventors for patents.
他们向发明人支付专利费用。
They gather these patents together into this huge warehouse of invention that companies can use if they want.
他们将这些专利集中到这个巨大的发明仓库中，公司可以根据需要使用它们。
Sort of like a department store for patents.
有点像专利百货商店。
Whatever technology you're looking for, Intellectual Ventures has it.
无论您需要什么技术，Intellectual Ventures 都能满足您的需求。
And when reporters come to visit Myhrvold to underline this idea that IV is all about invention, he takes them to see this.
当记者们来拜访米尔沃德并强调 IV 就是发明的想法时，他带他们看到了这一点。
[MACHINERY NOISE] GEOFF DEANE: So out here, we're standing [INAUDIBLE] the brink of our machine shop.
[机械噪音] GEOFF DEANE：所以在这里，我们正站在[听不清]我们机械车间的边缘。
I'm on a tour with Geoff Deane, who runs the Intellectual Ventures Invention Lab.
我正在与杰夫·迪恩（Geoff Deane）一起参观，他负责智力风险投资发明实验室。
About 100 people work here.
大约有 100 人在这里工作。
The lab is massive.
实验室很大。
There are people walking around in white lab coats mixing chemicals in beakers and looking at stuff under microscopes.
人们穿着白色实验室外套走来走去，在烧杯中混合化学物质，并在显微镜下观察东西。
There's a machine shop, a nanotechnology section.
有一个机械车间，一个纳米技术部门。
It's like a playground for scientists and engineers.
它就像科学家和工程师的游乐场。
And if you ask them what they've invented so far, there's a couple things they point to.
如果你问他们到目前为止发明了什么，他们会指出一些事情。
A nuclear technology, they say, is safer and greener than existing technologies, a cooler that can keep vaccines cold for months without electricity, and the world's most high-tech mosquito zapper, which senses mosquitoes hundreds of feet away by detecting the speed of their wings.
他们说，核技术比现有技术更安全、更环保，还有一种无需电力即可将疫苗冷藏数月的冷却器，以及世界上最高科技的灭蚊器，它可以通过检测数百英尺外的蚊子翅膀的速度来感知它们。
But the fact is this lab is a tiny fraction of what the company does.
但事实是这个实验室只是该公司所做工作的一小部分。
Intellectual Ventures has received a little over 1,000 patents on stuff they've come up with here, which pales in comparison to the more than 30,000 patents they've bought from other people.
Intellectual Ventures 已经获得了 1,000 多项他们在这里发明的专利，这与他们从其他人那里购买的 30,000 多项专利相比显得相形见绌。
In fact, nothing that's come out of this lab-- not the mosquito zapper, not the nuclear technology-- nothing has made it into commercial use.
事实上，这个实验室没有任何成果——无论是灭蚊器，还是核技术——都没有投入商业用途。
That doesn't matter, executives here say.
这里的高管表示，这并不重要。
That's not the biggest part of our business, anyway.
无论如何，这不是我们业务的最大部分。
The main thing we do is help inventors-- make sure inventors are probably paid for their work.
我们所做的主要事情是帮助发明家——确保发明家可能因其工作而获得报酬。
They say there are inventors out there doing brilliant work, holding patents, but not making money off of those patents.
他们说，有些发明家做了出色的工作，拥有专利，但没有从这些专利中赚钱。
Companies are stealing their ideas.
公司正在窃取他们的想法。
And these inventors don't have the legal savvy or deep pockets to stop them.
而且这些发明家没有法律头脑或雄厚的财力来阻止他们。
And that is where Intellectual Ventures steps in to protect the little guy.
这就是 Intellectual Ventures 介入保护小人物的地方。
A lot of people I met at IV told me some version of this story.
我在 IV 遇到的很多人都告诉了我这个故事的一些版本。
I heard it over and over.
我听了一遍又一遍。
And so finally, I asked for an example.
最后，我要求举一个例子。
If Intellectual Ventures isn't just a patent troll, give me an example-- someone with a breakthrough who wasn't being paid for it-- who Intellectual Ventures helped out and got paid.
如果 Intellectual Ventures 不仅仅是一个专利流氓，请给我举个例子——某人取得了突破，但没有获得报酬——但 Intellectual Ventures 提供了帮助并获得了报酬。
Two separate people pointed me to the same guy.
两个不同的人把我指向同一个人。
There's one story I can think of-- a gentleman named Chris Crawford.
我能想到一个故事——一位名叫克里斯·克劳福德的绅士。
This is one of the people who mentioned Chris Crawford-- Joe Chernesky, a vice president at Intellectual Ventures.
这是提到克里斯·克劳福德（Chris Crawford）的人之一——乔·切尔内斯基（Joe Chernesky），Intellectual Ventures 的副总裁。
The neat thing about Chris is he had no idea how to get money for his patents.
克里斯的妙处在于他不知道如何为他的专利筹集资金。
He had this great idea.
他有这个好主意。
These patents were immensely valuable because every technology company was adopting the technology.
这些专利非常有价值，因为每个科技公司都在采用这项技术。
Yet he didn't know how to get paid.
但他不知道如何获得报酬。
He eventually found Intellectual Ventures.
他最终找到了Intellectual Ventures。
So we bought those patents.
所以我们购买了这些专利。
So I figured, I want to talk to this guy-- not so simple.
所以我想，我想和这个人谈谈——没那么简单。
It turned out trying to talk to Chris Crawford took us on a five-month odyssey where things didn't exactly fit the story that Intellectual Ventures was telling us.
事实证明，试图与克里斯·克劳福德交谈让我们经历了长达五个月的冒险之旅，事情与 Intellectual Ventures 告诉我们的故事并不完全相符。
It started when I called Intellectual Ventures to get Chris Crawford's contact info.
当我打电话给 Intellectual Ventures 以获取 Chris Crawford 的联系信息时，事情就开始了。
I got a strange email back in response.
我收到一封奇怪的电子邮件回复。
I was told they no longer own Chris Crawford's patent.
我被告知他们不再拥有克里斯·克劳福德的专利。
And I was told he probably wouldn't want to talk to me right now because he was in the middle of litigation.
我被告知他现在可能不想和我说话，因为他正在进行诉讼。
So we started digging around.
所以我们开始四处挖掘。
We found Chris Crawford in Clearwater, Florida.
我们在佛罗里达州克利尔沃特找到了克里斯·克劳福德。
But as predicted, he never responded to our many emails and phone calls.
但正如预料的那样，他从未回复我们的许多电子邮件和电话。
We were able, though, to locate his patents.
不过，我们能够找到他的专利。
There were four of them, all pretty similar.
他们一共有四个人，都非常相似。
And we focused on one.
我们专注于其中之一。
--patent number 5,771,354.
——专利号5,771,354。
He got it in 1998, back in the relatively early days of the internet.
他在 1998 年得到了它，当时还处于互联网相对早期的时期。
And the way IV explained the patent to us, Chris Crawford invented something that we all do all the time now.
IV 向我们解释该专利的方式是，克里斯·克劳福德发明了我们现在一直在做的事情。
He figured out a way to upgrade the software on your home computer over the internet.
他想出了一种通过互联网升级家用电脑软件的方法。
So in other words, when you turn on your computer, and a little box pops up and says, click here to upgrade to the newest version of iTunes, that was Chris Crawford's idea.
换句话说，当你打开电脑时，会弹出一个小框，上面写着“单击此处升级到最新版本的 iTunes”，这就是 Chris Crawford 的主意。
But when we looked at the patent, it seemed to claim a lot more than that.
但当我们查看该专利时，它的要求似乎远不止于此。
The patent says this invention makes it possible to connect to an online service provider to do a bunch of stuff-- software purchases, online rentals, data backups, information storage.
该专利称，这项发明可以连接到在线服务提供商来执行一系列操作——软件购买、在线租赁、数据备份、信息存储。
The patent makes it seem like this one guy, Chris Crawford, invented a lot of what we do on the internet every day.
这项专利让人觉得克里斯·克劳福德（Chris Crawford）发明了我们每天在互联网上所做的很多事情。
We weren't sure what to make of this.
我们不知道该怎么办。
So we turned to an expert.
所以我们求助于专家。
--Laura, is you're going to start by looking at the left and right-hand screen.
--劳拉，您要首先查看左侧和右侧屏幕吗？
This is David Martin, who runs a company called M-CAM.
我是大卫·马丁 (David Martin)，他经营着一家名为 M-CAM 的公司。
They're hired by governments, banks, businesses, to assess patent quality, which they do with this fancy software program.
他们受雇于政府、银行、企业来评估专利质量，他们使用这款精美的软件程序来评估专利质量。
The patent's on the left.
专利在左边。
Laura Sydell We asked him to assess Chris Crawford's patent.
Laura Sydell 我们请他评估 Chris Crawford 的专利。
Now, if you would please, just click on the patent number itself, Laura.
现在，如果您愿意，只需单击专利号本身，劳拉。
And that--
还有那个——
The software program actually scans through millions of patents and analyzes them to see if any of them overlap.
该软件程序实际上扫描了数百万项专利并对其进行分析，以查看其中是否有重叠。
That's a bad number.
这是一个糟糕的数字。
Laura Sydell An idea being patented is supposed to be non-obvious to a person of ordinary skill in the art.
Laura Sydell 获得专利的想法对于本领域的普通技术人员来说应该是非显而易见的。
What that means is that you shouldn't be able to get a patent for just a common-sense good idea.
这意味着你不应该仅仅因为一个常识性的好主意就获得专利。
It has to be a breakthrough.
它必须是一个突破。
That's correct.
这是正确的。
Laura Sydell And what we're seeing on David Martin's computer screen does not look like a breakthrough.
劳拉·西德尔（Laura Sydell） 我们在大卫·马丁（David Martin）的电脑屏幕上看到的看起来并不像是一个突破。
5,303 patents that were issued while his was being prosecuted, which covered the same material-- 5,303.
在他被起诉期间，他获得了 5,303 项专利，其中涵盖了相同的材料——5,303 项。
And so that means that at the same time that Chris Crawford's patent was getting issued--
所以这意味着克里斯·克劳福德的专利同时被授予——
Only 5,303 other people were pursuing the same thing.
只有 5,303 人在追求同样的事情。
I mean the same thing.
我的意思是一样的。
Laura Sydell David Martin may be exaggerating a little here for effect.
劳拉·西德尔·大卫·马丁在这里可能为了效果有点夸张。
But as we look through some of the patents that are on the screen, the resemblances are pretty clear.
但当我们浏览屏幕上的一些专利时，它们的相似之处非常明显。
Remember, Chris Crawford's patent is for, quote, "an online backup system."
请记住，克里斯·克劳福德的专利是“在线备份系统”。
We asked a second patent expert to evaluate Chris Crawford's patent.
我们请第二位专利专家评估克里斯·克劳福德的专利。
And he told us that everything in it was already being done on computers in the 1980s, long before Chris Crawford even filed the patent.
他告诉我们，早在 20 世纪 80 年代，早在 Chris Crawford 申请专利之前，其中的一切就已经在计算机上完成了。
He thought the patent never should have been granted in the first place.
他认为这项专利从一开始就不应该被授予。
Patents are so fundamental to the American way of life that they're in the Constitution.
专利对于美国人的生活方式至关重要，以至于被写入宪法。
Their purpose is, quote, "to promote the useful arts and sciences." If there were no such thing as a patent, Eli Whitney, the inventor of the cotton gin, would have had to keep his invention hidden in a dark room with no windows so nobody would steal the idea.
他们的目的是“促进有用的艺术和科学”。如果没有专利这样的东西，轧棉机的发明者伊莱·惠特尼(Eli Whitney)就不得不把他的发明藏在一个没有窗户的黑暗房间里，这样就没有人会窃取这个想法。
But with a patent, he could publish the blueprints.
但有了专利，他就可以发布蓝图。
People would have to pay him if they wanted to manufacture their own cotton gins.
如果人们想自己制造轧棉机，就必须付钱给他。
And we would have thousands of cotton gins everywhere.
我们到处都会有数千台轧棉机。
Patents make it safe to share and to innovate.
专利使共享和创新变得安全。
But people in Silicon Valley will tell you the problem with software patents today is that all kinds of things are getting patented that aren't breakthroughs and don't deserve a patent.
但硅谷的人会告诉你，当今软件专利的问题是，所有正在申请专利的东西都不是突破性的，也不值得申请专利。
They're too broad or too obvious.
它们太宽泛或太明显。
And a lot of the people that tell you that are the people that software patents are supposed to protect-- software engineers.
很多告诉你这一点的人都是软件专利应该保护的人——软件工程师。
I have to say I actually worked on a whole bunch of patents in my career over the years.
我不得不说，多年来我在职业生涯中实际上申请了一大堆专利。
And I have to say that every single patent is nothing but crap.
我不得不说，每一项专利都不过是垃圾。
This is Stephan Brunner, a programmer.
我是斯蒂芬·布伦纳，一名程序员。
He said something we heard from a lot of software engineers.
他说了一些我们从很多软件工程师那里听到的事情。
His software patents don't even make sense to him.
他的软件专利对他来说甚至没有意义。
I can't tell you for the hell of it what they're actually supposed to do.
我实在无法告诉你他们到底应该做什么。
Because I did not-- the company said we have to do a patent on this.
因为我没有——公司说我们必须为此申请专利。
And then they send in a lawyer.
然后他们派了一名律师。
And you basically say, yeah, that's probably right.
你基本上会说，是的，这可能是对的。
That's probably wrong.
这可能是错误的。
And they just write something.
他们只是写一些东西。
And it makes no sense.
这毫无意义。
And personally, when I look at them, I'm not proud at all.
就我个人而言，当我看到他们时，我一点也不自豪。
Because most of them, again, it's just like mumbo jungo, which nobody understands and which makes no sense from an engineering standpoint whatsoever.
因为它们中的大多数都像胡言乱语一样，没有人理解，从工程的角度来看毫无意义。
Stephan Brunner, patent 7,650,296-- quote, "a configurator using structure and rules to provide a user interface." One sample section interests me.
Stephan Brunner，专利 7,650,296——引用，“一个使用结构和规则来提供用户界面的配置器。”其中一个示例部分令我感兴趣。
The whole thing is like this.
整个事情是这样的。
"According to one embodiment of the invention, a customizable product class is created.
“根据本发明的一个实施例，创建了一种可定制的产品类别。
A component product class is added to the customizable product class where the component product class is a subclass of the customizable product."
组件产品类被添加到可定制产品类中，其中组件产品类是可定制产品的子类。”
The patent system, the way it works now, can actually hinder innovation because patents can be used as weapons against new businesses.
专利制度目前的运作方式实际上会阻碍创新，因为专利可以被用作对抗新企业的武器。
Engineers say patents don't help them create new products.
工程师们表示，专利并不能帮助他们创造新产品。
Often, they get in the way.
通常，他们会妨碍我们。
We're at a point in the state of intellectual property where existing patents probably cover every single behavior that's happening on the internet and our mobile phones today.
我们正处于知识产权状态，现有专利可能涵盖当今互联网和手机上发生的每一种行为。
This is Chris Sacca, a Silicon Valley venture capitalist who's helped lots of companies, including Twitter and Uber, get off the ground.
这是克里斯·萨卡 (Chris Sacca)，一位硅谷风险投资家，帮助许多公司（包括 Twitter 和 Uber）起步。
So I have no doubt that the average Silicon Valley startup or even medium-sized company-- no matter how truly innovative they are, I have no doubt that aspects of whatever they're doing violate patents that are out there right now.
因此，我毫不怀疑硅谷的普通初创公司甚至中型公司——无论他们多么真正地创新，我毫不怀疑他们所做的任何事情的某些方面都侵犯了现有的专利。
And that's what's fundamentally broken about the system right now.
这就是目前这个系统从根本上被破坏的地方。
Which brings us back to that patent that Intellectual Ventures pointed us to as an example of the system fundamentally working well-- not being broken-- patent 5,771,354, Chris Crawford's patent.
这让我们回到了 Intellectual Ventures 向我们指出的专利，该专利是系统从根本上运行良好（没有被破坏）的一个例子，即专利 5,771,354，克里斯·克劳福德 (Chris Crawford) 的专利。
As we've said, this patent seems to cover a remarkable chunk of what's happening on the internet-- upgrading software, buying stuff online, cloud storage, storing data on the internet.
正如我们所说，这项专利似乎涵盖了互联网上正在发生的大部分事情——升级软件、在线购买东西、云存储、在互联网上存储数据。
If you have a patent on all that, you could sue a lot of people, make a lot of money.
如果你拥有所有这些专利，你可以起诉很多人，赚很多钱。
And in fact, that's what's happening with Chris Crawford's patent.
事实上，克里斯·克劳福德的专利就是这样。
Intellectual Ventures sold it to another company, a company called Oasis Research, in June of 2010.
2010 年 6 月，Intellectual Ventures 将其出售给了另一家名为 Oasis Research 的公司。
Less than a month later, Oasis Research used the patent to sue 16 different tech companies-- companies like Rackspace, GoDaddy, and AT&T-- companies that do cloud storage.
不到一个月后，Oasis Research 利用该专利起诉了 16 家不同的科技公司，例如 Rackspace、GoDaddy 和 AT&T 等从事云存储的公司。
You have reached Oasis Research.
您已到达绿洲研究中心。
At the tone, please leave your name--
听到提示音后，请留下您的名字——
I called the number on Oasis's website numerous times.
我多次拨打绿洲网站上的号码。
But an actual human being never picked up.
但真正的人类从未被接起。
For a while, the message directed all questions to a lawyer in New York named John Desmarais.
有一段时间，这条信息将所有问题都转给了纽约一位名叫约翰·德马雷（John Desmarais）的律师。
He also didn't return our phone calls.
他也没有回我们的电话。
There is hardly any public information about Oasis Research-- minimal corporate filings, no way to know who owned it, how many employees it had, if it even had employees at all.
几乎没有任何关于绿洲研究公司的公开信息——公司档案很少，无法知道谁拥有它，有多少员工，甚至根本没有员工。
One of the few details that was available-- an address in Marshall, Texas-- 104 East Houston Street, Suite 190.
为数不多的可用详细信息之一是德克萨斯州马歇尔市的一个地址：104 East Houston Street, Suite 190。
Right now we're going into the first floor of the Baxter Building, which is 104 East Houston.
现在我们要进入巴克斯特大厦的一楼，即东休斯顿 104 号。
This is Michael Smith.
这是迈克尔·史密斯。
He's an attorney in Marshall, Texas, who does mostly patent cases.
他是德克萨斯州马歇尔市的一名律师，主要处理专利案件。
He agreed to show us the offices of Oasis Research.
他同意带我们参观绿洲研究公司的办公室。
They're in a nondescript, two-story building on the town's main square, two doors down from the federal courthouse.
他们位于镇主广场上一栋不起眼的两层楼房里，距离联邦法院只有两扇门。
He led us into a narrow corridor lined with doors with gold and black office name plates.
他带我们走进一条狭窄的走廊，走廊两旁都是挂着金色和黑色办公室名牌的门。
And here we go, Suite 190, Oasis Research, LLC.
我们来了，Oasis Research, LLC 190 室。
It was late morning on a weekday, not a holiday.
那是工作日的上午晚些时候，不是假期。
But the door was locked.
但门是锁着的。
Through the crack underneath, you could see there were no lights on inside.
透过下面的裂缝，可以看到里面没有开灯。
Marshall is a very small town-- 24,000 people.
马歇尔是一个非常小的城镇——只有 24,000 人。
Michael was born and raised here.
迈克尔在这里出生和长大。
So we started quizzing him about Oasis.
所以我们开始向他询问有关 Oasis 的情况。
Does it have any employees that you know about?
它有您认识的员工吗？
Not that I know of.
据我所知没有。
Laura Sydell Have you ever seen any people coming in and out of that office?
劳拉·西德尔 你见过有人进出那间办公室吗？
No, I haven't.
不，我没有。
Laura Sydell If you don't mind, I'm going to knock on the door and just see if there's anyone here today.
劳拉·西德尔（Laura Sydell）：如果您不介意的话，我会敲门，看看今天有没有人在这里。
[KNOCKING ON DOOR] Alex Blumberg I know this is kind of a cliche at this point-- knocking on the door of the suspected fake office.
[敲门] Alex Blumberg 我知道这在这一点上有点陈词滥调——敲开可疑的假办公室的门。
Nothing.
没有什么。
Alex Blumberg But we'd flown a long way.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格：但是我们已经飞了很长一段路了。
But I will say, standing in that corridor was eerie.
但我要说的是，站在那条走廊里很奇怪。
All the other doors looked exactly the same-- locked, name plates over the door, no light coming out.
所有其他的门看起来都一模一样——锁着，门上挂着铭牌，没有光亮。
It was a corridor of silent, empty offices.
这是一条安静、空荡荡的办公室走廊。
Right next door to Software Rights Archive, Bullet Proof Technology of Texas, Jellyfish Technology of Texas, and a couple others that I recognize as plaintiffs in cases that we're involved in here.
就在 Software Rights Archive 的隔壁，德克萨斯州的防弹技术公司（Bullet Proof Technology of Texas）、德克萨斯州的水母技术公司（Jellyfish Technology of Texas）以及其他几个我认为是我们所涉及案件中的原告的公司。
Are there are a lot of companies like this here in East Texas?
德克萨斯州东部有很多这样的公司吗？
Yes.
是的。
Alex Blumberg And we're standing in a whole corridor of them, it seems like.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格（Alex Blumberg）：我们似乎站在他们的整个走廊里。
So what's going on here?
那么这是怎么回事呢？
It turns out a lot of those companies in that corridor-- maybe every single one of them-- are doing exactly what Oasis Research is doing.
事实证明，这条走廊里的很多公司——也许每一个——都在做绿洲研究公司正在做的事情。
They appear to have no employees.
他们似乎没有员工。
They're not making new inventions here.
他们并没有在这里进行新发明。
They're filing lawsuits for patent infringement.
他们正在就专利侵权提起诉讼。
Patent lawsuits, says Michael Smith, are big business in Marshall, part of the Eastern District of Texas.
迈克尔·史密斯表示，专利诉讼是德克萨斯州东区马歇尔的一项大生意。
Smith told us there are about 2,000 patent cases in the courthouse in Marshall.
史密斯告诉我们，马歇尔法院大约有 2,000 起专利案件。
And we got lots of explanations for why-- why all these New York and San Francisco-based companies come to tiny Marshall.
我们得到了很多关于为什么所有这些纽约和旧金山的公司来到小马歇尔的解释。
One theory-- the juries are friendly to people doing the suing.
一种理论是陪审团对提起诉讼的人很友好。
Another-- medical malpractice attorneys switched careers after Texas passed malpractice tort reform.
另一个——在德克萨斯州通过医疗事故侵权改革后，医疗事故律师改变了职业生涯。
My favorite theory, though-- all these patent cases are in Marshall because of the drug war.
不过，我最喜欢的理论是——所有这些专利案件都在马歇尔审理，因为毒品战争。
The flood of drug cases made it impossible for patent suits to get in front of a judge in big cities like Dallas or Houston.
大量的毒品案件使得专利诉讼无法在达拉斯或休斯顿等大城市的法官面前审理。
So the patent cases moved to sleepy little Marshall.
于是，专利案件就转移到了昏昏欲睡的小马歇尔身上。
We'd come to Marshall to figure out which story about Intellectual Ventures was true.
我们来马歇尔是为了弄清楚关于 Intellectual Ventures 的哪个故事是真实的。
Are they a patent troll?
他们是专利流氓吗？
Or are they out there protecting the rights of struggling inventors everywhere?
或者他们是否在保护各地苦苦挣扎的发明家的权利？
So we went back to Intellectual Ventures for answers and talked to the company's vice chairman, a guy named Peter Detkin.
因此，我们回到 Intellectual Ventures 寻求答案，并与该公司的副主席 Peter Detkin 进行了交谈。
One interesting footnote about Peter Detkin-- he's actually the person who coined the phrase "patent troll." This was years ago.
关于彼得·德特金（Peter Detkin）的一个有趣的脚注——他实际上是创造“专利流氓”一词的人。这是很多年前的事了。
He was one of the top lawyers at the computer chip maker Intel.
他是计算机芯片制造商英特尔的顶级律师之一。
They got sued by a company claiming patent infringement.
他们被一家声称侵犯专利的公司起诉。
And Detkin called the lawyer who filed the claim a, quote, "patent extortionist." The lawyer turned around and sued Peter Detkin for libel.
德特金称提出索赔的律师为“专利勒索者”。律师转而起诉彼得·德特金诽谤。
So Detkin says he held a contest at Intel to come up with a better name.
因此，德特金说，他在英特尔举办了一场竞赛，以想出一个更好的名字。
And we got a lot of suggestions.
我们收到了很多建议。
But none really fit.
但没有一个真正适合。
But at the time, my daughter was, I think, four or five.
但我想，当时我的女儿只有四五岁。
And she liked playing with those little troll dolls.
她喜欢和那些小巨魔娃娃一起玩。
The original one, in fact, is still in my office.
事实上，原来的那张仍然在我的办公室里。
And so I turned to her.
于是我转向她。
And I said, oh, well, the story of a troll kind of fits because of the whole Billy Goats Gruff thing.
我说，哦，好吧，巨魔的故事有点适合，因为整个比利山羊粗暴的事情。
It's someone lying under a bridge they didn't build, demanding payment from anybody who passed.
有人躺在一座不是他们建造的桥下，要求任何经过的人付款。
I said, how about a patent troll?
我说，专利流氓怎么样？
Of course, the name stuck.
当然，这个名字就被保留下来了。
After leaving Intel, Detkin teamed up with Nathan Myhrvold to start Intellectual Ventures, the company that many people call the biggest patent troll out there.
离开英特尔后，德特金与内森·梅尔沃德 (Nathan Myhrvold) 合作创办了 Intellectual Ventures，这家公司被许多人称为最大的专利流氓公司。
Peter Detkin obviously disagrees with this characterization.
彼得·德特金显然不同意这种描述。
So anyway, we went to Peter Detkin to ask our questions.
所以无论如何，我们去找 Peter Detkin 询问我们的问题。
But even the most basic question about the story Intellectual Ventures had told us, he couldn't answer.
但即使是关于 Intellectual Ventures 告诉我们的故事的最基本问题，他也无法回答。
Like, for example, when did they buy Chris Crawford's patent?
例如，他们什么时候购买克里斯·克劳福德的专利？
There's a document that's publicly available on the US Patent Office website.
美国专利局网站上公开了一份文件。
It traces a patent's ownership history.
它追踪专利的所有权历史。
In the case of Chris Crawford's patent, though, the ownership history was really hard to understand.
然而，就克里斯·克劳福德的专利而言，其所有权历史确实很难理解。
The first owner is clear.
第一任主人很清楚。
It's Chris Crawford, who was granted the patent in 1998.
克里斯·克劳福德 (Chris Crawford) 于 1998 年获得了该专利。
And then it's clear that a company named Intellectual Ventures Computing Platforce Assets, LLC-- no one can actually tell us what a platforce is-- bought the patent in July of 2010.
然后很明显，一家名为 Intellectual VenturesComputingPlatforceAssets, LLC 的公司（没有人能真正告诉我们 platforce 是什么）于 2010 年 7 月购买了该专利。
But in between those two dates, there are two other owners, a company called Kwon Holdings and another one named Enhanced Software, LLC.
但在这两个日期之间，还有另外两个所有者，一家名为 Kwon Holdings 的公司，另一家名为Enhanced Software, LLC 的公司。
And what was odd-- Kwon Holdings, Enhanced Software, and Intellectual Ventures all have the same address.
奇怪的是，Kwon Holdings、Enhanced Software 和 Intellectual Ventures 的地址都相同。
We showed this document to Peter Detkin for explanation.
我们向 Peter Detkin 展示了这份文件以寻求解释。
But this simple question-- when did you buy the patent-- completely threw him off and led the PR woman, who was in the room with us, to jump in and try to shut down the interview.
但这个简单的问题——你什么时候买的专利——完全让他感到困惑，并导致与我们一起在房间里的公关女士跳了进来，试图结束采访。
You'll hear her voice in the background.
您会在背景中听到她的声音。
This is just the patent history of Chris's patent.
这只是克里斯的专利的专利历史。
And honestly, we just don't understand this.
老实说，我们就是不明白这一点。
So if you could explain what we're looking at here.
那么您能否解释一下我们在这里看到的内容。
So he invented it in 1998.
所以他在1998年发明了它。
[INAUDIBLE] my reading glasses on.
[听不清] 我戴上了老花镜。
So I'm struggling a little bit here.
所以我在这里有点挣扎。
So he invented this first-- Pr Woman I don't know that getting into the history of this patent is necessary.
所以他首先发明了这个—— Pr Woman 我不知道有必要了解这个专利的历史。
Well, I know where you're going with this.
好吧，我知道你想做什么。
What's the question?
问题是什么？
What are you trying to find out?
你想找出什么？
We would like-- if you could explain.
如果您能解释一下，我们希望如此。
The story you're telling is that you bought this patent from this inventor, Chris Crawford.
您所讲述的故事是您从发明家克里斯·克劳福德（Chris Crawford）那里购买了这项专利。
And then you sold it a little bit later.
然后你稍后就把它卖掉了。
But then if you actually look at the history, it's a very different story.
但如果你真正回顾历史，就会发现这是一个非常不同的故事。
It seems very different.
看起来很不一样。
So I'm trying to figure out-- if you could explain it to us.
所以我想弄清楚——你是否可以向我们解释一下。
That's what I'm trying--
这就是我正在尝试的——
I won't be able to tell you by looking at this.
光看这个我就无法告诉你。
I mean, I'm not an expert in-- I don't even know what-- you're on the USPTO website?
我的意思是，我不是这方面的专家——我什至不知道——你在美国专利商标局网站上吗？
I haven't looked at this particular website in a while.
我有一段时间没有查看这个特定的网站了。
I don't know how it's organized.
我不知道它是如何组织的。
I'm trying to be helpful.
我正在努力提供帮助。
But the fact is, I know we bought it from some entity of his.
但事实是，我知道我们是从他的某个实体那里购买的。
And apparently, we then sold it.
显然，我们然后卖掉了它。
And again, I have some vague recollection of us doing that deal.
再说一次，我对我们做那笔交易有一些模糊的记忆。
But are you telling me that you run a patent company and you were the head counsel for Intel in the patent department.
但你是告诉我你经营一家专利公司并且你是英特尔专利部门的首席法律顾问吗？
You don't know what the patent office website-- you don't know how to read this?
您不知道专利局网站是什么——您不知道如何阅读？
Look, I mean, I could look at this if you want.
听着，我的意思是，如果你愿意的话我可以看看这个。
But I haven't looked at this particular website.
但我还没有看过这个特定的网站。
And I don't know how it's organized.
而且我不知道它是如何组织的。
And I'm not exactly sure what it is you're trying to get at.
我不太确定你想表达什么。
So I'm happy to answer questions.
所以我很乐意回答问题。
But if you're going to cross-examine me on the record about a patent website, I don't think that's quite fair.
但如果你要在专利网站上对我进行盘问，我认为这不太公平。
So for example, one question is when was it sold to Intellectual Ventures.
例如，一个问题是它何时被出售给 Intellectual Ventures。
Because it's sold a number of times.
因为已经卖过很多次了。
But it's sold a number of times to different companies with the same address as Intellectual Ventures.
但它已被多次出售给与 Intellectual Ventures 地址相同的不同公司。
Does that mean that it was sold to Intellectual Ventures but not--
这是否意味着它被卖给了 Intellectual Ventures，但不是——
It's a little different.
有点不同。
And we're not going to talk about this--
我们不打算谈论这个——
Yeah, I have no idea.
是的，我不知道。
There's no way without knowing the details of this particular deal I could ever possibly answer that question.
如果不了解这笔特定交易的细节，我就不可能回答这个问题。
We were honestly surprised at this response.
老实说，我们对这个回应感到惊讶。
It wasn't like this was a secret document or something.
这不像是秘密文件什么的。
What was the big deal about answering the seemingly simple question?
回答这个看似简单的问题有什么大不了的？
Part of it certainly was that we took him a little bit by surprise.
部分原因肯定是我们让他有点惊讶。
I take him at his word that they do a lot of deals.
我相信他的话，他们做了很多交易。
And he doesn't know the details of every one.
而且他也不知道每一项的详细情况。
But part of it is that Intellectual Ventures does a lot of its patent deals through shell companies-- hundreds of them-- shell companies owned by Intellectual Ventures but registered under different names, where it's very difficult to tell that Intellectual Ventures is the actual owner.
但部分原因是，Intellectual Ventures 通过空壳公司（数百家）进行大量专利交易，这些空壳公司由 Intellectual Ventures 拥有，但以不同的名称注册，很难判断 Intellectual Ventures 是实际所有者。
So what was their relationship with Oasis and Chris Crawford?
那么他们与绿洲和克里斯·克劳福德是什么关系呢？
Well, we uncovered a document.
好吧，我们发现了一份文件。
It's called a Certification of Interested Parties.
这称为利益相关方证明。
The court in Texas required that Oasis list all the entities who have a financial stake in the outcome of the case.
德克萨斯州法院要求 Oasis 列出与案件结果有经济利益关系的所有实体。
This is a standard form that pretty much all parties in civil cases have to file.
这是民事案件中几乎所有各方都必须提交的标准表格。
Oasis listed the parties that most people list-- the plaintiff, the defendants, the attorneys involved.
绿洲列出了大多数人列出的当事人——原告、被告、涉案律师。
But it added one other name-- Intellectual Ventures.
但它又加上了另一个名字——Intellectual Ventures。
So we went back to Intellectual Ventures one more time to talk to Peter Detkin.
因此，我们再次回到 Intellectual Ventures 与 Peter Detkin 进行交谈。
We picked up where we left off the last time.
我们从上次停下的地方继续。
When did Intellectual Ventures actually buy Chris Crawford's patent?
Intellectual Ventures 何时真正购买了 Chris Crawford 的专利？
And this time, he had no hesitation about explaining it.
而这一次，他也毫不犹豫的解释道。
This is when we bought it-- October of 2007 from CMC Software to Kwon Holdings.
2007 年 10 月，我们从 CMC Software 收购了 Kwon Holdings。
And Kwon is a company that we created to purchase these assets.
Kwon 是我们为了购买这些资产而创建的公司。
Then when we actually struck a deal and prepared to sell it, in the name of transparency, we changed it to the Intellectual Ventures Computing Platforce Assets.
然后，当我们真正达成交易并准备出售它时，以透明的名义，我们将其更改为 Intellectual Ventures 计算平台资产。
Please don't ask me what a platforce is.
请不要问我什么是平台力量。
I don't know what it is.
我不知道那是什么。
And then in August of 2010, we sold it to Oasis research.
然后在 2010 年 8 月，我们将其出售给 Oasis Research。
We showed Detkin that court document from the Oasis case listing Intellectual Ventures as an interested party.
我们向德特金展示了 Oasis 案的法庭文件，其中将 Intellectual Ventures 列为利益相关方。
OK.
好的。
And it does list the Intellectual Ventures Computing Platforce Assets as an interested party.
它确实将 Intellectual VenturesComputingPlatforceAssets 列为利益相关方。
I see that.
我明白了。
And you don't know why in this instance you're listed?
你不知道为什么在这种情况下你会被列出来？
I believe it's because we likely have a back end arrangement here.
我相信这是因为我们可能在这里有后端安排。
We sell for some amount of money up front.
我们预先出售一些钱。
And we get some percentage of the royalty stream down the road that is generated from the monetization of these assets.
我们从这些资产的货币化中获得了一定比例的特许权使用费。
So just to spell this out, Peter Detkin is saying it's likely that Intellectual Ventures is taking a cut of whatever money Oasis gets from its lawsuits.
为了阐明这一点，Peter Detkin 表示，Intellectual Ventures 很可能会从 Oasis 从诉讼中获得的任何资金中抽取一部分。
Oasis, a company with no operations, no products, and as far as we can tell, no employees, whose only activity seems to be taking a very broad patent from 1998 and using it to sue over a dozen internet companies today.
Oasis 是一家没有业务、没有产品、据我们所知也没有员工的公司，其唯一的活动似乎是从 1998 年开始获取一项非常广泛的专利，并利用它起诉十几家互联网公司。
And so we asked him, how does it feel making money from an entity which is behaving a lot like the patent trolls that he once condemned?
所以我们问他，从一个行为很像他曾经谴责的专利流氓的实体赚钱感觉如何？
These are patents we used to hold.
这些是我们曾经拥有的专利。
We no longer hold.
我们不再持有。
And we ensure that we have no control over the actions of these third parties.
我们确保我们无法控制这些第三方的行为。
They are independent actors.
他们是独立演员。
They're not Intellectual Ventures.
他们不是智力投资公司。
They may be monetizing in ways that we disagree with.
他们可能以我们不同意的方式获利。
But it's not our call.
但这不是我们的决定。
It's theirs.
这是他们的。
Yeah.
是的。
I mean, I sort of feel like, yeah, well, but what do you expect?
我的意思是，我有点感觉，是的，好吧，但是你期望什么？
You must have some knowledge that it's highly likely these people are going to go and bring lawsuits, especially since they're companies that only have these largely run by attorneys.
您必须知道这些人很可能会提起诉讼，特别是因为他们是主要由律师运营的公司。
Sure.
当然。
No, I understand.
不，我明白。
And I'm not just disputing any of that.
我不只是对其中任何一个提出异议。
What I'm trying to say, and I apologize if I'm not being clear, is that we do believe-- we believe in our heart that litigation is a highly inefficient way to do licensing.
我想说的是，如果我说得不清楚，我很抱歉，我们确实相信——我们内心相信，诉讼是一种非常低效的许可方式。
But let's not lose sight that litigation is just licensing by other means.
但我们不要忽视诉讼只是通过其他方式获得许可。
In other words, we try to license these patents in a friendly way.
换句话说，我们尝试以友好的方式许可这些专利。
But sometimes you have to sue.
但有时你必须起诉。
Peter Detkin then repeated the company line that we'd heard from a lot of people at IV-- that the mission of Intellectual Ventures is to help inventors bring great ideas into the world, that lots of inventors, they're like great artists-- brilliant, but not brilliant at business.
Peter Detkin 然后重复了我们从 IV 的很多人那里听到的公司路线——Intellectual Ventures 的使命是帮助发明家将伟大的想法带入世界，很多发明家，他们就像伟大的艺术家——才华横溢，但在商业上并不出色。
So their patents languish.
因此他们的专利日渐衰落。
IV gets their ideas into the hands of companies who will actually build what they've invented.
IV 将他们的想法交到公司手中，这些公司将真正构建他们的发明。
Coming up, Chris Crawford speaks, and more secrets of Oasis Research revealed.
接下来，克里斯·克劳福德 (Chris Crawford) 将发表讲话，并揭晓绿洲研究的更多秘密。
That's in a minute from WBEZ Chicago and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，WBEZ 芝加哥和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, "When Patents Attack, Part Two"-- the sequel-- the squeekquel.
今天我们的节目“当专利受到攻击时，第二部分”——续集——squeekquel。
Today we return to a story we first reported on two years ago about our patent system-- how it sometimes seems to be discouraging rather than encouraging innovation.
今天，我们回到两年前首次报道的有关我们专利制度的故事——它有时似乎是在阻碍而不是鼓励创新。
A quick review of where we are so far-- OK, there's this company called Intellectual Ventures.
快速回顾一下我们目前所处的情况——好的，有一家名为 Intellectual Ventures 的公司。
Its executives told our reporters that if they wanted to understand what the company was all about-- if they wanted proof that their company is not a patent troll but out there helping the little guy inventor just get fair payment, then they should talk to this inventor that Intellectual Ventures helped out, a patent holder named Chris Crawford.
该公司的高管告诉我们的记者，如果他们想了解这家公司的全部内容——如果他们想证明他们的公司不是专利流氓，而是帮助小发明家获得公平的报酬，那么他们应该与 Intellectual Ventures 帮助的这位发明家交谈，他是一位名叫 Chris Crawford 的专利持有者。
But when our reporters tried, Chris Crawford would not talk to them.
但当我们的记者尝试时，克里斯·克劳福德却拒绝与他们交谈。
His patents were now in the hands of a company called Oasis Research.
他的专利现在掌握在一家名为 Oasis Research 的公司手中。
And they were being used to sue over a dozen different tech businesses.
它们被用来起诉十几家不同的科技企业。
And back in 2011, we didn't learn much more than that.
早在 2011 年，我们就没有学到更多的东西。
We didn't know who was behind Oasis Research.
我们不知道绿洲研究公司的幕后黑手是谁。
We had no idea how much money was at stake in the case.
我们不知道此案涉及多少钱。
We suspected that some companies had settled with Oasis.
我们怀疑有一些公司已经与 Oasis 达成和解。
But we had no idea how many or for how much.
但我们不知道有多少或多少钱。
And most significantly, we had no idea how the guy at the center of the whole mystery, Chris Crawford, felt about it all.
最重要的是，我们不知道整个谜团的中心人物克里斯·克劳福德对这一切有何感受。
We had no idea if he knew what was being done with this patent-- if he approved, or if he was like some of the software engineers we talked to who didn't like that their patents got sold to companies that only used them to threaten lawsuits.
我们不知道他是否知道这项专利的用途——他是否批准了，或者他是否像我们采访过的一些软件工程师一样，不喜欢他们的专利被卖给那些只用它们来威胁诉讼的公司。
Well, I'm please to say now we have answers to all of those questions-- every one of those questions.
好吧，我很高兴地说，现在我们已经找到了所有这些问题的答案——每一个问题。
Here again is Alex Blumberg and Laura Sydell.
亚历克斯·布隆伯格和劳拉·西德尔又来了。
There ended up being 18 defendants in the Oasis case-- 18 tech companies it claimed were infringing on Chris Crawford's patents.
Oasis 案最终有 18 名被告——它声称 18 家科技公司侵犯了 Chris Crawford 的专利。
Many of those 18 companies in the beginning pooled legal forces to figure out what to do.
这 18 家公司中的许多公司一开始就联合法律力量来弄清楚该怎么做。
But that pool got smaller and smaller as companies decided to just cut a deal with Oasis-- pay them a licensing fee in exchange for being dropped from the suit.
但随着公司决定与 Oasis 达成协议——向他们支付许可费以换取退出诉讼，这个池变得越来越小。
At a certain point, an online backup company called Carbonite was one of two companies remaining in the case.
在某个时刻，一家名为 Carbonite 的在线备份公司是此案中剩下的两家公司之一。
In full disclosure here, Carbonite is an underwriter of National Public Radio news programs.
在此充分披露，Carbonite 是国家公共广播电台新闻节目的承销商。
Carbonite CEO David Friend says it was tough to be one of the last men standing, especially with the advice that they were getting from the lawyers they'd hired.
Carbonite 首席执行官大卫·弗兰德 (David Friend) 表示，成为最后坚持下来的人之一很艰难，尤其是考虑到他们从聘请的律师那里得到的建议。
You know, what our lawyers were saying is it's going to cost us millions of dollars more to take this to trial.
你知道，我们的律师所说的是，我们将花费数百万美元来审理此案。
And if we lose, we're really screwed.
如果我们输了，我们就真的完蛋了。
If we could settle this thing and just have it go away, why don't we do that?
如果我们能解决这件事并让它消失，我们为什么不这样做呢？
And I was sort of like, well, because we're not in violation of their patents.
我有点想，好吧，因为我们没有侵犯他们的专利。
Why should we pay them anything, even a nickel?
为什么我们要付给他们任何东西，哪怕是五分钱？
Friend says he'd done a patent search when he started his company and never came across Chris Crawford's patents.
朋友说，他在创办公司时进行了专利检索，但从未发现过克里斯·克劳福德的专利。
I mean, the reason was that they were way too old.
我的意思是，原因是他们太老了。
And we figured, how could there be a patent relevant to backing up over the internet before the internet was even invented?
我们想，在互联网发明之前，怎么可能有与互联网备份相关的专利呢？
What they hadn't counted on was a patent that was so broad, it covered anyone backing up any data over the internet using any system at all.
他们没有想到的是一项范围如此广泛的专利，它涵盖了任何使用任何系统通过互联网备份任何数据的人。
As a businessman, you know, I'm put in this situation where my board is saying, you should settle.
作为一名商人，你知道，我处于这样的境地，我的董事会说，你应该和解。
And my lawyers are saying, you should settle.
我的律师说，你应该和解。
And everybody else is settling.
其他人都在安定下来。
I felt like we were being extorted.
我感觉我们被勒索了。
The problem is, defending a patent case is really hard.
问题是，为专利案件辩护确实很困难。
Patents are complicated.
专利很复杂。
So is technology.
技术亦如此。
Trying to explain which part of a patent should or should not apply to which part of a computer program-- it's a trick just to get the jury to understand, let alone go along with your point of view.
试图解释专利的哪一部分应该或不应该应用于计算机程序的哪一部分——只是为了让陪审团理解，这是一个技巧，更不用说同意你的观点了。
But there is an easier way to win a patent case, a way where you don't have to force a jury to second guess the experts at the patent office.
但有一种更简单的方法可以赢得专利官司，这种方法不必迫使陪审团再次猜测专利局的专家。
If you can demonstrate that the inventor wasn't telling the truth when he filled out the application-- if, for example, he wasn't the only inventor.
如果您能证明发明人在填写申请时没有说实话——例如，如果他不是唯一的发明人。
So lawyers for Carbonite and the other company that had chosen not to settle-- EMC-- started to dig into Chris Crawford's history, looking for clues that might invalidate his patent.
因此，Carbonite 和另一家选择不和解的公司 EMC 的律师开始深入研究 Chris Crawford 的历史，寻找可能使他的专利无效的线索。
Carbonite's Chief Counsel Danielle Sheer says one of the first places they went looking was the company where Chris Crawford was working at the time he claimed to have come up with his idea.
Carbonite 的首席法律顾问丹妮尔·谢尔 (Danielle Sheer) 表示，他们首先去寻找的地方之一是克里斯·克劳福德 (Chris Crawford) 声称提出自己的想法时所在的公司。
We located some individuals who had worked with Chris Crawford in the early 1990s.
我们找到了一些在 20 世纪 90 年代初与克里斯·克劳福德 (Chris Crawford) 共事过的人。
And I'll call him the person who connected all the dots-- was this man named Chuck Campos, who was Chris Crawford's boss in 1991 for a company called ACS.
我称他为连接所有点的人，这个人名叫查克·坎波斯 (Chuck Campos)，1991 年，他是克里斯·克劳福德 (Chris Crawford) 在一家名为 ACS 的公司的老板。
Lawyers described Chris Crawford's patents to Chuck Campos and asked if he knew anything about the circumstances where he developed those ideas.
律师向查克·坎波斯描述了克里斯·克劳福德的专利，并询问他是否了解他提出这些想法的情况。
And he told them, yes.
他告诉他们，是的。
I was with him when those ideas were developed.
当这些想法被提出时，我就和他在一起。
And they weren't only Chris Crawford's ideas.
而且它们不仅仅是克里斯·克劳福德的想法。
Chuck Campos told the lawyers that the ideas mainly came from two other guys, Jack Byrd and Don Atwood.
查克·坎波斯告诉律师，这些想法主要来自另外两个人，杰克·伯德和唐·阿特伍德。
This was in 1990.
这是1990年的事。
Don Atwood and Jack Byrd are business partners.
唐·阿特伍德和杰克·伯德是商业伙伴。
They have a company called WBT, LLC.
他们有一家名为 WBT, LLC 的公司。
Jack Byrd loved acronyms.
杰克·伯德喜欢缩写词。
WBT stands for We've Been There.
WBT 代表“我们去过那里”。
And the two of them were working on a technology consulting company.
他们两人在一家技术咨询公司工作。
And they lived about 30 miles apart.
他们住的地方相距约 30 英里。
And I think they were developing software.
我认为他们正在开发软件。
Two idea guys had a lot of technical experience.
两个有创意的人都拥有丰富的技术经验。
And they wanted to save their work.
他们想保存他们的工作。
And at the time, the only way to do that was to download it to floppy disk drives.
当时，唯一的方法是将其下载到软盘驱动器。
But then, the disk drives are just sitting at your house, so not safe from a fire or some other natural disaster.
但是，磁盘驱动器就放在您的家里，因此无法免受火灾或其他自然灾害的影响。
So they decided, well, we need to keep this data safe.
所以他们决定，我们需要保证这些数据的安全。
So let's download a copy of what we're working on on floppy disk drives.
因此，让我们下载一份我们正在软盘驱动器上处理的内容的副本。
And I'll meet you halfway in between our homes-- 15 miles each.
我会在我们家之间的中途与你会面——每家相距 15 英里。
And let's exchange the floppy disk drives.
让我们交换软盘驱动器。
That way, we've got a little bit of disaster recovery contingency.
这样，我们就有了一些灾难恢复应急措施。
Yeah.
是的。
You put your data on my computer.
你把你的数据放在我的电脑上。
And I'll put my data on your computer.
我会把我的数据存到你的电脑上。
And then they'll both be relatively safe.
然后他们都会相对安全。
That was their backup system-- driving 15 miles each way, meeting in the middle, getting out of their cars, and exchanging a pair of floppy disks.
这就是他们的备用系统——单程行驶 15 英里，在中间汇合，下车，交换两张软盘。
Naturally, being idea guys, they thought, there has to be a better way.
当然，作为有创意的人，他们认为必须有更好的方法。
Phone modems were just becoming ubiquitous around this time.
电话调制解调器在这个时候才变得无处不在。
And they thought, how about a business backing up data remotely over the phone line using a modem?
他们想，企业使用调制解调器通过电话线远程备份数据怎么样？
A little bit later, Jack Byrd meets Chuck Campos, tells him about the idea.
过了一会儿，杰克·伯德遇到了查克·坎波斯，告诉他这个想法。
And he joins the group.
他加入了这个团体。
They decide they need a specific type of computer to back up all the data-- something called an AS/400.
他们决定需要一种特定类型的计算机来备份所有数据——称为 AS/400。
That is finally where Chris Crawford comes into the situation.
这就是克里斯·克劳福德终于出现的情况。
Chris Crawford was hired by Chuck Campos at ACS.
克里斯·克劳福德 (Chris Crawford) 被 ACS 的查克·坎波斯 (Chuck Campos) 聘用。
He had expertise with the AS/400.
他拥有 AS/400 方面的专业知识。
He was a junior guy at this point.
此时他还是个小伙子。
And Chuck asks him if he wants to be part of their group.
查克问他是否想加入他们的团队。
Because they want to get an online backup business going.
因为他们想要开展在线备份业务。
The group met regularly Saturdays at Jack Byrd's apartment over the course of a couple months.
在几个月的时间里，该小组每周六定期在杰克·伯德的公寓聚会。
And during these meetings, they discussed all sorts of things, from the technical details of how this backup system would work to details about the company itself-- how they'd split ownership four ways-- 25% each.
在这些会议期间，他们讨论了各种各样的事情，从备份系统如何工作的技术细节到公司本身的细节——他们如何以四种方式分割所有权——每种方式 25%。
And also what the new company they were forming way back in the early '90s would be called.
还有他们在 90 年代初组建的新公司的名称。
The name they chose-- PC Oasis.
他们选择的名字是——PC Oasis。
That's right.
这是正确的。
The name of the company that Chris Crawford was invited to join in the early 1990s had the same name as the shell company in East Texas that was suing people two decades later.
克里斯·克劳福德 (Chris Crawford) 在 20 世纪 90 年代初受邀加入的公司名称与二十年后德克萨斯州东部起诉人的空壳公司同名。
And apparently, the name had also been Jack Byrd's idea.
显然，这个名字也是杰克·伯德的主意。
Remember, he was the acronym guy.
请记住，他是缩写词的人。
It stands for Offsite Automatic-- I don't know.
它代表异地自动——我不知道。
[CHUCKLING]
[咯咯笑]
For the record, Offsite Archival Software and Information Server-- Oasis.
郑重声明，异地档案软件和信息服务器——Oasis。
They had actually sketched a sort of a logo-- an idea for a logo for their company.
他们实际上已经草绘了一种徽标——为他们的公司设计徽标的想法。
Oh, right.
哦，对了。
David Friend I think it was in Jack Byrd's hand.
大卫·弗兰德 我认为它是在杰克·伯德的手里。
It was done on pencil and paper.
这是用铅笔和纸完成的。
And it was kind of a world-- a globe-- with four palm trees.
这是一个有四棵棕榈树的世界——一个地球仪。
It was an island.
那是一座岛屿。
David Friend --an island-- that's right.
大卫·弗兰德——一座岛屿——没错。
--an oasis island.
——绿洲岛。
David Friend --with four palm trees growing on it, representing the four partners in this business.
David Friend——上面长着四棵棕榈树，代表这个行业的四个合伙人。
So how did this same name come to be given two decades later to a shell company in East Texas?
那么，二十年后，德克萨斯州东部的一家空壳公司是如何起同样的名字的呢？
Well, back in the '90s, the first Oasis never got off the ground.
早在 20 世纪 90 年代，第一款 Oasis 就从未问世。
The problem was they couldn't figure out a way to get consumer online backup working using the technology that most people had available in their homes in the early '90s-- phone lines and modems.
问题是他们无法找到一种方法，让消费者在线备份能够使用 90 年代初大多数人在家中可用的技术——电话线和调制解调器。
So they disbanded the company and went on their way.
于是他们解散了公司，继续前行。
But all those meetings where they'd been sketching everything out, figuring out the technology, solving the problems-- Chris Crawford had been the main note-taker at those meetings.
但在所有这些会议上，他们都在勾画一切，弄清楚技术，解决问题——克里斯·克劳福德是这些会议上的主要记录者。
A couple years later, Chris Crawford-- he ends up filing some patents.
几年后，克里斯·克劳福德（Chris Crawford）最终申请了一些专利。
And he uses the documents that he's created in these meetings to prove that he has this idea and here's how the idea works and to draw the figures for the patent and to come up with the claims.
他使用在这些会议中创建的文件来证明他有这个想法，以下是这个想法的运作方式，并绘制专利图并提出权利要求。
So Jack Byrd, Don Atwood, and Chuck Campos know nothing about what Chris Crawford is doing-- nothing at all.
所以杰克·伯德、唐·阿特伍德和查克·坎波斯对克里斯·克劳福德在做什么一无所知——一无所知。
He doesn't start a business.
他不创业。
Instead, he sells those patents to a company named Kwon Holdings.
相反，他将这些专利出售给了一家名为 Kwon Holdings 的公司。
It has some kind of affiliation with Intellectual Ventures.
它与 Intellectual Ventures 有某种联系。
And he sells them for millions of dollars.
他以数百万美元的价格出售它们。
Do you know exactly how much he sold them for?
你知道他到底卖了多少钱吗？
$12 million and an ongoing percentage of royalties for anything that the next owner collects.
1200 万美元以及下一任所有者收取的任何特许权使用费的持续百分比。
I think it's something as high as 18 and 1/2%.
我认为这个比例高达 18 又 1/2%。
The problem was Chris Crawford had sold something for $12 million that wasn't his to sell.
问题是克里斯·克劳福德以 1200 万美元的价格出售了一些不属于他的东西。
If Chris Crawford's three former business partners had also developed the idea, they should have at the very least been listed as co-inventors on Crawford's original patent applications.
如果克里斯·克劳福德的三位前商业伙伴也提出了这个想法，那么他们至少应该被列为克劳福德原始专利申请的共同发明人。
So the lawyers for EMC and Carbonite now had something like a smoking gun to use at trial-- these three men with a very compelling story about how the patent had been mostly their idea, not Chris Crawford's.
因此，EMC 和 Carbonite 的律师现在在审判中有了确凿的证据——这三个人有一个非常引人注目的故事，说明该专利主要是他们的想法，而不是 Chris Crawford 的想法。
But at trial, it would still be just their word against Crawford's.
但在审判中，这仍然只是他们的言论反对克劳福德的言论。
The lawyers wanted proof-- something in the documents that Crawford filed with the patent office that mentioned the other inventors.
律师们想要证据——克劳福德向专利局提交的文件中提到其他发明人的东西。
There were lots of these documents from those Saturday meetings that mentioned the three partners.
周六的会议上有很多文件提到了这三位合伙人。
Chuck Campos had a box in his attic full of them.
查克·坎波斯（Chuck Campos）的阁楼里有一个盒子，里面装满了它们。
But none of those documents mentioning the others made their way into Chris Crawford's patent application.
但这些提到其他文件的文件都没有进入克里斯·克劳福德的专利申请中。
Well, almost none.
嗯，几乎没有。
In the thousands of pages that Chris Crawford submitted to the patent office in order to obtain his patents, one of the documents had a sentence that said that this is in response to Jack Byrd's idea to provide online backup.
在克里斯·克劳福德为了获得专利而向专利局提交的数千页文件中，其中一份文件中有这样一句话，称这是为了回应杰克·伯德提供在线备份的想法。
And of course, one of the excellent attorneys that worked on this for EMC and Carbonite located that document and questioned Chris about it.
当然，为 EMC 和 Carbonite 从事此工作的一位优秀律师找到了该文件并向 Chris 询问了此事。
The May 23, 1992, proposal, which is marked as Exhibit 10.
1992 年 5 月 23 日的提案，标记为附件 10。
Yes.
是的。
I'm looking at it.
我正在看它。
Laura Sydell And here he is, the man we've been looking for, Chris Crawford, the man who was granted patent number 5,771,354, one of the patents used to sue 18 companies.
Laura Sydell 他就是我们一直在寻找的 Chris Crawford，他被授予了 5,771,354 号专利，这是用于起诉 18 家公司的专利之一。
This is sound from a videotaped deposition he gave as part of the Oasis trial.
这是他在绿洲审判中提供的录像证词中的声音。
He's polished-- crisp white shirt, paisley tie, tortoise-shell reading glasses.
他衣着整洁——干净的白衬衫，佩斯利花纹领带，戴着龟甲老花镜。
He's got sandy brown hair, a tan.
他有一头沙棕色的头发，晒成棕褐色。
The lawyer continues to question him.
律师继续审问他。
So the first paragraph of this document reads, quote, "This proposal, it is in response to Jack Byrd's idea to provide automated offsite backup services for PC users." And aren't you in the second sentence saying that Jack Byrd had an idea to provide automated offsite backup services for PC users?
因此，这份文件的第一段写道，“这个提议，是为了响应 Jack Byrd 的想法，为 PC 用户提供自动化的异地备份服务。”您在第二句话中不是说 Jack Byrd 有一个想法，为 PC 用户提供自动异地备份服务吗？
No. What I'm saying is that Jack Byrd had an idea of me pursuing the automated offsite backup services that I had--
不。我想说的是，杰克·伯德想让我追求我所拥有的自动化异地备份服务——
Chris Crawford then launches into a rather surprising explanation for how the sentencing that this business was, quote, "Jack Byrd's idea," doesn't actually mean that the business was Jack Byrd's idea.
克里斯·克劳福德随后提出了一个相当令人惊讶的解释，解释为什么这项业务的判决是“杰克·伯德的想法”，实际上并不意味着该业务是杰克·伯德的想法。
His explanation?
他的解释？
He was using the apostrophe S incorrectly.
他错误地使用了撇号 S。
As far as the apostrophe S-- and I'm still not clear if you're trying to derive a specific meaning with respect to the apostrophe S--
至于撇号 S-- 我仍然不清楚您是否试图推导出撇号 S-- 的具体含义
Of course, what would a sentence reading, "in response to Jack Byrds idea" even mean if the S was plural?
当然，如果 S 是复数，那么句子“响应 Jack Byrds 的想法”到底意味着什么呢？
I'm asking you, though-- you certainly know what the use of an apostrophe S means, do you not?
不过，我问你——你当然知道撇号 S 的使用意味着什么，不是吗？
[SNIFFING] As I've written documents over the years, there are times when I use an apostrophe S, and it seems like I'm supposed to use an apostrophe S.
[嗅探] 由于我多年来编写文档，有时我会使用撇号 S，而且似乎我应该使用撇号 S。
But I have to say that my grammar is not strong enough to tell you right now with clarity when an apostrophe S is used.
但我不得不说，我的语法还不够强大，现在还无法清楚地告诉您何时使用撇号 S。
This explanation, apparently, did not convince the jury, and Oasis lost the case.
这个解释显然没有说服陪审团，绿洲败诉了。
The jury concluded that the patents were indeed invalid for failing to name the correct co-inventors.
陪审团得出结论认为，由于未能指定正确的共同发明人，这些专利确实无效。
Yet this victory just shows how difficult it is to defend yourself against a patent infringement claim.
然而，这一胜利恰恰表明，针对专利侵权索赔进行辩护是多么困难。
The lawyers for Carbonite believe that without that one document-- that one apostrophe S-- they might have lost.
Carbonite 的律师认为，如果没有那一份文件（即一个撇号 S），他们可能会丢失。
Because here's how tough the jury was.
因为陪审团的严厉程度可见一斑。
The jury verdict said that the patents were improperly filed because Jack Byrd's name should have been listed as a co-inventor.
陪审团裁决称，这些专利申请不当，因为杰克·伯德的名字本应被列为共同发明人。
Just Jack Byrd-- not Chuck Campos and Don Atwood, the other men who testified under oath that they too had been involved in developing the ideas.
只有杰克·伯德，而不是查克·坎波斯和唐·阿特伍德，其他人宣誓作证说他们也参与了这些想法的发展。
Only Jack Byrd's name had been on that document.
该文件上只有杰克·伯德的名字。
And only Jack Byrd got credit from the jury as a co-inventor.
只有杰克·伯德作为共同发明人获得了陪审团的认可。
And for the 16 companies that did settle, the verdict may not change anything.
对于最终达成和解的 16 家公司来说，判决可能不会改变任何事情。
In most cases, these licensing agreements have language that makes them nearly impossible to get out of, no matter what happens with the patent later on.
在大多数情况下，这些许可协议的语言使得它们几乎不可能摆脱，无论专利后来发生什么。
This week, we heard back from a spokesman from one of the companies that chose to settle.
本周，我们收到了其中一家选择和解公司发言人的回复。
The spokesman wrote in an email, quote, "We were hit hard by this lawsuit.
该发言人在一封电子邮件中写道，“我们受到这起诉讼的沉重打击。
Infringement on our part seemed completely bogus, but we could not afford to fight it.
我们的侵权行为似乎完全是假的，但我们无力反抗。
Even with the settlement, we were forced to lay off employees.
即使达成和解，我们也被迫解雇员工。
We are still--" and "still" is in all caps-- "still paying out on the settlement agreement.
我们仍然——”并且“仍然”全部大写——“仍然按照和解协议付款。
We were unaware that the patent had been invalidated.
我们不知道该专利已被无效。
We will be contacting our attorney to see what recourse we may have."
我们将联系我们的律师，看看我们可以采取什么追索措施。”
Like we've been saying, because so many of these cases settle with nondisclosure agreements, we almost never find out how much money changed hands.
就像我们一直说的那样，因为很多案件都是通过保密协议解决的，所以我们几乎从来不知道有多少钱易手。
But because of the Oasis case, we now have a sense of how much money that can be.
但由于绿洲的案例，我们现在知道了可以赚多少钱。
Because Carbonite won their case and didn't settle, they weren't bound by a nondisclosure agreement.
由于 Carbonite 赢了官司但没有达成和解，因此他们不受保密协议的约束。
And they were happy to reveal how much money Oasis wanted from them.
他们很乐意透露绿洲想要从他们那里得到多少钱。
Well, the original number that was thrown out-- I don't think it was official-- was they wanted $20 million.
嗯，最初被抛出的数字——我不认为这是官方的——是他们想要 2000 万美元。
--going forward.
——继续前进。
David Friend --ongoing.
大卫·弗兰德——正在进行中。
Which what David was at was at a little under half of the cash we had in the bank at that time.
大卫所持有的现金还不到我们当时银行里现金的一半。
Plus a percentage of our ongoing business forever.
永远加上我们持续业务的一定比例。
And remember, Carbonite was one of the smaller companies being sued.
请记住，Carbonite 是被起诉的较小公司之一。
We don't know what they were asking from the other guys.
我们不知道他们向其他人询问什么。
But a lawyer named Tom Ewing says you can make an educated guess.
但一位名叫汤姆·尤因的律师表示，你可以做出有根据的猜测。
Ewing runs a small side business tracking and identifying Intellectual Ventures' shell companies.
尤因经营着一家小型副业，跟踪和识别 Intellectual Ventures 的空壳公司。
And he says, assuming Oasis was asking for settlements in rough proportion to the size of the company being targeted, you can put together a pretty good estimate of their total take from this lawsuit.
他说，假设 Oasis 要求的和解金额与目标公司的规模大致成比例，那么你可以对他们从这场诉讼中获得的总收益进行一个相当好的估计。
I'm guessing it would be in excess of $100 million.
我估计会超过1亿美元。
$100 million.
1亿美元。
And who would have gotten that $100 million?
谁会得到那 1 亿美元？
Some of the money went to the lawyers who prepped the case and negotiated the settlements for Oasis.
部分资金交给了准备案件并为 Oasis 协商和解的律师。
Some of it went to the owner of Oasis Research, a mysterious figure named Gordon Jumonville, who showed up in court every day but never testified and never returned our phone calls.
其中一些交给了绿洲研究公司的老板，一个名叫戈登·朱蒙维尔的神秘人物，他每天都出现在法庭上，但从未作证，也从未回过我们的电话。
But most of the profit went to Intellectual Ventures.
但大部分利润都流向了 Intellectual Ventures。
Remember Peter Detkin?
还记得彼得·德特金吗？
When we spoke with him, he explained the financial arrangement with Oasis this way.
当我们与他交谈时，他是这样解释与 Oasis 的财务安排的。
We get some percentage of the royalty stream down the road that is generated from the monetization of these assets.
我们从这些资产的货币化中获得了一定比例的特许权使用费。
And because of documents filed with the court, we now know what the percentage was-- 90.
根据向法院提交的文件，我们现在知道这个百分比是多少——90。
Intellectual Ventures sold Chris Crawford's patents to Oasis Research on the condition that it get 90% of the net profit.
Intellectual Ventures 将 Chris Crawford 的专利出售给 Oasis Research，条件是获得 90% 的净利润。
That's 90% of tens of millions of dollars.
这是数千万美元的90%。
Chris Crawford didn't make out too badly, either.
克里斯·克劳福德的表现也不错。
Documents also say that Chris Crawford gets 17 and 1/2% of the money that Intellectual Ventures makes.
文件还显示，Chris Crawford 获得了 Intellectual Ventures 收入的 17%又 1/2%。
Now, let's just pause to consider that $100 million for a second.
现在，让我们暂停一下，考虑一下这 1 亿美元。
That's $100 million off of one guy's patents.
这比一个人的专利少了 1 亿美元。
That is a lot of money.
那是很多钱。
And other people see that money.
其他人看到了这笔钱。
And they want in on that action.
他们希望参与这一行动。
They think that's a good business-- getting a hold of patents-- using them to sue people.
他们认为这是一门好生意——获得专利——用它们来起诉人们。
Tom Ewing, the lawyer who tracks Intellectual Ventures, says that's getting easier because every year more patents are issued than the year before.
追踪 Intellectual Ventures 的律师汤姆·尤因 (Tom Ewing) 表示，这变得越来越容易，因为每年颁发的专利都比前一年多。
According to a Yale study, it's 100 software patents a day.
根据耶鲁大学的一项研究，每天有 100 项软件专利。
It took 121 years for us to get the first 1 million patents.
我们花了121年才获得第一个100万项专利。
Now it takes more or less six years to get another million patents.
现在要获得另外一百万项专利大约需要六年的时间。
And the more patents are issued, the less careful the patent office seems to be.
而且颁发的专利越多，专利局似乎就越不谨慎。
According to a study by the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development, quote, "The rush to protect even minor improvements in products or services is overburdening patent offices.
经济合作与发展组织的一项研究指出，“急于保护产品或服务的哪怕是微小的改进都会让专利局负担过重。
This slows the time to market for true innovations and reduces the potential for breakthrough inventions."
这会减慢真正创新的上市时间，并降低突破性发明的潜力。”
Case in point-- Nick Desaulniers About three years ago this time of the year, my father passed away from a heart attack.
典型的例子——尼克·德索尔尼尔斯 大约三年前的这个时候，我的父亲因心脏病去世了。
Not long ago, I was at a meeting in San Francisco put on by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, an advocacy group that's been critical of the patent system.
不久前，我参加了电子前沿基金会在旧金山举办的一次会议，该基金会是一个对专利制度持批评态度的倡导组织。
It was an open meeting.
这是一次公开会议。
And this guy you hear talking, Nick Desaulniers, had decided on the spur of the moment to drop in.
你听到说话的这个人，尼克·德索尔尼尔斯，一时冲动决定过来拜访。
And after hearing a couple of other people tell their stories, he got up to tell his.
在听到其他几个人讲述他们的故事后，他站起来讲述他的故事。
He's an engineer.
他是一名工程师。
And his father's death had spurred him to invent a low-cost heart monitor, which he believed might have saved his dad's life.
他父亲的去世促使他发明了一种低成本的心脏监护仪，他相信这可能挽救了他父亲的生命。
He developed a prototype in a graduate school class.
他在研究生院课堂上开发了一个原型。
And he'd started dreaming a bit.
他开始做一些梦了。
You know, I got really excited about it.
你知道，我对此感到非常兴奋。
And I was thinking, maybe I can make a business out of this.
我在想，也许我可以利用这个来做生意。
My grandfather started his own business.
我的祖父开始了自己的事业。
My father made his own business.
我父亲开创了自己的事业。
I need to make my own business someday.
有一天我需要自己创业。
So this was something I was really thinking, like, hey, I can make a business out of this.
所以这是我真正在想的事情，就像，嘿，我可以利用这个来做生意。
But then he started a patent search to see if anyone else had come up with something resembling his idea already.
但随后他开始进行专利搜索，看看是否有其他人已经提出了与他的想法类似的东西。
I was horrified at how generic some of the patents were-- "a system for remotely monitoring physiological signals." What the hell does that mean?
我对一些专利的通用性感到震惊——“一种远程监测生理信号的系统”。这到底是什么意思？
There are so many ways, so many variables.
方法有很多，变数也有很多。
How are you getting the data from point A to point B?
如何将数据从 A 点传输到 B 点？
There are so many ways to do that.
有很多方法可以做到这一点。
And this patent, it covers-- I guess it covers them all.
这项专利涵盖了——我想它涵盖了所有这些。
And seeing some of the numbers that these companies are going back and forth suing each other for, I'm terrified to create a business because of the patent system.
看到这些公司来回互相起诉的一些数字，我害怕因为专利制度而创建一家企业。
I'm horrified.
我很害怕。
And I'm scared.
我很害怕。
And I'm not going to create a business because of it.
我不会因此而创建一家企业。
So however many jobs I could have created or however many lives I could have saved, that's it.
因此，无论我本可以创造多少就业机会，或者无论我本可以拯救多少生命，仅此而已。
Thanks.
谢谢。
Alex Blumberg And that is the current state of things.
Alex Blumberg 这就是目前的情况。
Something as dry as the US patent system can move somebody to tears.
像美国专利制度这样枯燥的东西可能会让人落泪。
Since our last broadcast, we've gotten used to front-page stories about huge tech companies in multimillion dollar battles over patents.
自上次广播以来，我们已经习惯了头版报道大型科技公司陷入数百万美元的专利争夺战。
But what hasn't been making the front page as often-- patent cases spreading to the rest of us.
但是，专利案件并没有经常出现在头版，而是蔓延到了我们其他人身上。
Over the last couple of years, there have been numerous stories about small businesses-- individuals even-- getting hit with patent infringement lawsuits.
在过去的几年里，有许多关于小企业（甚至个人）遭受专利侵权诉讼的故事。
A group called Innovatio has been going around suing coffee shops and grocery stores for violating its patent on providing Wi-Fi in a public space.
一个名为 Innovatio 的组织一直在四处起诉咖啡店和杂货店侵犯其在公共场所提供 Wi-Fi 的专利。
They say they own that idea.
他们说他们拥有这个想法。
And if your coffee shop is providing Wi-Fi, you owe them money.
如果你的咖啡店提供 Wi-Fi，你就欠他们钱。
They say they've made a strategic and business judgment not go after people using Wi-Fi in their own homes, quote, "at this stage." Another company called Boadin Technologies, LLC, has sued a bunch of media organizations, saying that one of its patents is infringed every time a word or phrase on your computer autocompletes.
他们表示，他们已经做出了战略和商业判断，“现阶段”不会针对人们在自己家中使用 Wi-Fi 的行为。另一家名为 Boadin Technologies, LLC 的公司已起诉多家媒体组织，称每当计算机上的单词或短语自动完成时，该公司的一项专利就会受到侵犯。
And a company in Vermont called MPHJ Technology has sent licensing letters to hundreds of businesses in Vermont, saying, any time an employee scans something to be emailed, that employee is infringing on MPHJ's patent.
佛蒙特州一家名为 MPHJ Technology 的公司已向佛蒙特州数百家企业发送了许可函，称只要员工扫描要通过电子邮件发送的内容，该员工就侵犯了 MPHJ 的专利。
They say they own the idea of scanning a document and then emailing it.
他们说他们拥有扫描文档然后通过电子邮件发送的想法。
They're asking for around $1,000 per employee in damages.
他们要求每位员工赔偿约 1,000 美元的损失。
One of the companies they've approached is a nonprofit serving disabled people.
他们接触的公司之一是一家为残疾人提供服务的非营利组织。
There are five bills in Congress co-sponsored by Republicans and Democrats aimed at overhauling the patent system.
国会中有五项由共和党和民主党共同发起的旨在彻底改革专利制度的法案。
This is still in the very early stages.
这仍处于非常早期的阶段。
And of course, it's hard to get any bill passed ever.
当然，任何法案都很难获得通过。
But this issue has attracted one thing you need to get action in Washington, DC-- powerful people in business interests who want change-- the tech industry, the supermarket industry, the Consumer Electronics Association, Google, and of course, the mighty podcast lobby.
但这个问题吸引了华盛顿特区需要采取行动的一件事——想要变革的商业利益中的有权势人士——科技行业、超市行业、消费电子协会、谷歌，当然还有强大的播客游说团体。
That's one difference between now and when we first reported on this story two years ago.
这是现在与我们两年前首次报道这个故事时的一个区别。
Now when we talk to people who are trying to reform the system, they seem hopeful.
现在，当我们与试图改革体制的人交谈时，他们似乎充满希望。
Laura Sydell and Alex Blumberg.
劳拉·西德尔和亚历克斯·布隆伯格。
This story was a co-production with NPR News.
这个故事是与 NPR 新闻联合制作的。
Planet Money, which Alex co-founded, is also a co-production of our program and NPR News.
Alex 联合创办的 Planet Money 也是我们的节目和 NPR 新闻的联合制作。
Its website and free podcast is at npr.org/money.
其网站和免费播客位于 npr.org/money。
Well, our program was produced today by our senior producer, Julie Snyder, Alex Blumberg, and me with Ben Calhoun, Sarah Koenig, Miki Meek, Jonathan Menjivar, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由我们的高级制片人 Julie Snyder、Alex Blumberg 和我与 Ben Calhoun、Sarah Koenig、Miki Meek、Jonathan Menjivar、Brian Reed、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Production help from Phia Bennin; Seth Lind, our operations director; Emily Condon, our production manager; Elise Bergerson, our administrative assistant.
菲亚·贝宁 (Phia Bennin) 的制作帮助； Seth Lind，我们的运营总监； Emily Condon，我们的生产经理；埃莉斯·伯格森，我们的行政助理。
Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddes.
Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddes 提供音乐帮助。
Research by Michelle Harris and Julie Beer.
米歇尔·哈里斯和朱莉·比尔的研究。
Special thanks today to Leslie Ogrodnick, Krish Gupta, and Uri Berliner.
今天特别感谢 Leslie Ogrodnick、Krish Gupta 和 Uri Berliner。
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our show by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia, who I just caught eating food I had in the fridge, even though I had written clearly on the bag, "Ira's lunch."
我们的老板 Torey Malatia 先生对我们的节目进行 WBEZ 管理监督，我刚刚发现他正在吃冰箱里的食物，尽管我在袋子上清楚地写着“Ira 的午餐”。
As far as the apostrophe S, I'm still not clear if you're trying to derive a specific meaning with respect to the apostrophe S.
至于撇号 S，我仍然不清楚您是否试图推导出撇号 S 的特定含义。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。