492: Dr. Gilmer and Mr. Hyde - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #492 | January 14, 2022 492: Dr. Gilmer and Mr. Hyde Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 492 集 | 2022 年 1 月 14 日 492：吉尔默博士和海德先生 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Hey there, it's This American Life.
序言 Ira Glass 嘿，这就是《美国生活》。
We first aired today's program in 2013.
我们于 2013 年首次播出今天的节目。
But we're going to air it again right now.
但我们现在要再次播出。
Because just this week, after many, many years, there's news.
因为就在这周，在很多很多年之后，有消息传来。
Story's changed.
故事变了。
So what we've going to do this hour is play the original story, then we have an update for you towards the end.
所以我们这一个小时要做的是播放原始故事，然后我们在最后为您提供更新。
As you'll hear, the reporter is Sarah Koenig, host of Serial.
正如您将听到的，记者是《Serial》节目主持人莎拉·科尼格 (Sarah Koenig)。
She did this before Serial, but you'll hear she's in here solving a mystery in a very Serial-like way.
她在连续剧之前就这样做了，但你会听到她在这里以一种非常像连续剧的方式解决一个谜团。
Benjamin Gilmer was finishing his training to be a doctor and he was applying for jobs.
本杰明·吉尔默即将完成医生培训，正在申请工作。
And there was this one job that he was really excited about at a small rural clinic in North Carolina, a place called Cane Creek, about 15 miles outside of Asheville.
在北卡罗来纳州的一家小型乡村诊所里，有一份让他非常兴奋的工作，那是一个叫 Cane Creek 的地方，距离阿什维尔约 15 英里。
But there were two slightly strange things about this job.
但这份工作有两点有点奇怪。
The first was that his predecessor at the position-- who was the guy who started the clinic-- had left the job after murdering his own father, strangling him and sawing off his fingers.
第一个是他的前任——也就是开办这家诊所的人——在谋杀了自己的父亲、勒死他并锯掉他的手指后离职了。
And the other strange thing?
还有另一件奇怪的事吗？
At first I didn't make the connection that his name was the same as mine.
起初我并没有意识到他的名字和我的名字相同。
This is Benjamin Gilmer.
这是本杰明·吉尔默。
Benjamin Gilmer And then during my interview, they reminded me, well, his name was actually Dr. Gilmer.
本杰明·吉尔默 然后在我的采访中，他们提醒我，嗯，他的名字实际上是吉尔默博士。
That's right.
这是正确的。
The murderer was Dr. Vince Gilmer.
凶手是文斯·吉尔默博士。
He was Dr. Benjamin Gilmer, no relation at all.
他是本杰明·吉尔默博士，毫无血缘关系。
And there was concern from the boards my presence out there might potentially even be harmful, because I share the same name.
董事会担心我的存在甚至可能有害，因为我有相同的名字。
You know, whether some patients would just elect not to come.
你知道，是否有些病人会选择不来。
I mean, there was confusion.
我的意思是，当时很混乱。
People think it's strange, just very-- it's very strange.
人们认为这很奇怪，非常非常奇怪。
This is Robin Whiteside, who works at the clinic.
我是罗宾·怀特塞德，在诊所工作。
Benjamin Gilmer must be a very qualified young man, because they did give him the job.
本杰明·吉尔默一定是一个非常合格的年轻人，因为他们确实给了他这份工作。
And sure enough, it did cause confusion among the patients, freaked a few out.
果然，它确实引起了病人的困惑，吓坏了一些人。
A patient called.
有病人打来电话。
I said, I can schedule you with Dr. Gilmer.
我说，我可以安排你去见吉尔默医生。
Terry Ippilito sits at the front desk of the clinic.
特里·伊皮利托 (Terry Ippilito) 坐在诊所的前台。
And they said, is this a-- it was near Halloween.
他们说，这是不是——快万圣节了。
And they said, is this a Halloween joke?
他们说，这是万圣节笑话吗？
As if there is such a thing as a Halloween joke.
好像有万圣节笑话这样的事情。
Anyway, one patient, Benjamin was meeting her for the very first time.
不管怎样，本杰明是一位病人，第一次见到她。
He walks into the exam room.
他走进考场。
And she literally was having a panic attack.
她真的惊恐发作了。
Hyperventilating, heart palpitations.
换气过度，心悸。
She thought maybe the other Dr. Gilmer, the murderer, was going to be seeing her.
她想也许另一个吉尔默博士，也就是凶手，会来见她。
But as Benjamin settled in at the clinic and people got to know him, something interesting happened.
但当本杰明在诊所安顿下来并且人们开始了解他时，有趣的事情发生了。
Many of Vince's former patients, who were now Benjamin's patients, started talking to him about Vince.
许多文斯以前的病人，现在是本杰明的病人，开始和他谈论文斯。
Each one of them felt like they needed to say something to clear the-- clear the air, I suppose.
他们每个人都觉得自己需要说点什么来消除误会，我想。
But they wanted me to know who he was, who was absolutely not what the papers were describing or just an ax murderer.
但他们想让我知道他是谁，他绝对不是报纸上描述的那样，或者只是一个斧头杀人犯。
Which was the thought that I had going into this job was that I'm following the footsteps of an ax murderer.
我从事这份工作的想法是，我正在追随斧头杀人犯的脚步。
But that's not the story that increasingly was being described by his patients.
但他的病人越来越多地描述的并不是这个故事。
For instance, Ruth Tracy.
例如，露丝·特雷西。
When she first came to Vince for treatment, she had just lost her job.
当她第一次来文斯接受治疗时，她刚刚失业。
Her husband wasn't working either.
她的丈夫也没有工作。
No insurance.
没有保险。
She told Vince, don't do tests.
她告诉文斯，不要做测试。
I can't afford it.
我买不起。
Vince wouldn't hear of it.
文斯不会听到这个消息。
And he did not charge me for my appointments for almost six months.
近六个月来，他没有向我收取预约费用。
He gave me my medication out of samples.
他从样品中给了我药物。
And he listened to me.
他听了我的话。
I could cry on his shoulder.
我可以靠在他的肩膀上哭泣。
He would give me a hug.
他会给我一个拥抱。
I mean, he always made me feel better.
我的意思是，他总是让我感觉更好。
I'd say, how can you treat me like this and not collect money?
我就说，你怎么能这样对我，还不收钱呢？
And he said, we have to help each other out.
他说，我们必须互相帮助。
This is not an exceptional story about Vince Gilmer.
这并不是一个关于文斯·吉尔默的特殊故事。
Lots of people would tell you what a great guy he was.
很多人会告诉你他是一个多么伟大的人。
Generous to a fault, he'd help you pay to get your car repaired, buy you a present for no reason.
他非常慷慨，会帮你付修车费，无缘无故地给你买礼物。
If you had no money, he would take a bushel of corn as payment.
如果你没有钱，他就会拿一斗玉米作为报酬。
He was a big, burly man.
他是一个身材高大、魁梧的男人。
His nickname was Bear.
他的绰号是熊。
He hugged everybody.
他拥抱了所有人。
He was a solid guy, a gentle guy.
他是一个坚强的人，一个温柔的人。
He gave free annual checkups to the local firefighters.
他为当地消防员提供免费的年度体检。
He made house calls.
他上门拜访。
House calls!
上门服务！
Didn't charge for them.
没有向他们收费。
And when one of our producers, Sarah Koenig, went around asking about Vince, she heard that some people still had a hard time believing that Vince would be capable of cold-blooded murder, even though he's serving in prison for it-- like Jerol Davis, one of his former patients.
当我们的一位制片人莎拉·科尼格四处询问文斯的情况时，她听说有些人仍然很难相信文斯有能力进行冷血谋杀，尽管他因此在监狱服刑——就像他以前的病人之一杰罗尔·戴维斯一样。
He told Sarah it made no sense.
他告诉莎拉这毫无意义。
And thinking back, see, his father had Alzheimer's.
回想起来，你看，他的父亲患有老年痴呆症。
And I wondered if he didn't kinda consider it a mercy killing.
我想知道他是否不认为这是一种安乐死。
Oh, really?
哦真的吗？
Jerol Davis To get his father out of his misery.
杰罗尔·戴维斯 (Jerol Davis) 让他的父亲摆脱痛苦。
That's the only answer I could think of.
这是我能想到的唯一答案。
If it was a mercy killing, doesn't it seem strange that he would strangle him?
如果是安乐死的话，他把他掐死，不觉得奇怪吗？
Because if he's a doctor, he would have access to whatever drugs you would need to--
因为如果他是一名医生，他就能获得你需要的任何药物——
I didn't say he strangled him.
我没说他勒死了他。
I have no idea how he died.
我不知道他是怎么死的。
Oh, he strangled him.
哦，他掐死了他。
Jerol Davis Oh?
杰罗尔·戴维斯 哦？
I didn't know that.
我不知道。
You didn't?
你没有？
Jerol Davis No. I didn't know how he killed him.
杰罗尔·戴维斯 不。我不知道他是怎么杀了他的。
I did not.
我没有。
Does it-- does that make you think differently about maybe why he did it, knowing that he strangled him?
这是否会让你以不同的方式思考他为什么要这么做，因为你知道他勒死了他？
Well, not necessarily.
嗯，不一定。
Ira Glass So Benjamin's doing this job.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：所以本杰明正在做这项工作。
And, like, every few weeks, somebody is telling him some glowing story about Vince.
而且，每隔几周，就会有人给他讲一些关于文斯的精彩故事。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't know why I started identifying with him, but I couldn't help myself.
我不知道为什么我开始认同他，但我无法控制自己。
I mean, I feel like I'm sort of a continuation of him, which I didn't expect to experience at all.
我的意思是，我觉得我有点像他的延续，这是我根本没想到会经历的。
He and Vince Gilmer had the same specialty, same job, same clinic, same last name.
他和文斯·吉尔默有相同的专业、相同的工作、相同的诊所、相同的姓氏。
They were even the same age.
他们甚至是同龄。
Vince Gilmer was 41 when he murdered his father, the same age as Benjamin when he came to work at the clinic.
文斯·吉尔默谋杀父亲时年仅 41 岁，与本杰明到诊所工作时的年龄相同。
And at some point-- and maybe you see where this is going-- Dr. Benjamin Gilmer started to get very curious about the murder that Dr. Vincent Gilmer committed.
在某个时刻——也许你明白事情的发展方向——本杰明·吉尔默博士开始对文森特·吉尔默博士犯下的谋杀案感到非常好奇。
He began asking questions, poking around, talking to people.
他开始提出问题、四处打探、与人们交谈。
He developed his own theories, theories to explain the murder that had never come up at Vince's trial.
他发展了自己的理论，这些理论来解释文斯审判中从未出现的谋杀案。
He gets pulled in deeper and deeper.
他被拉得越来越深。
And by the end-- and I don't think this is a spoiler alert-- things are very, very different from the way they look here at the beginning of the story.
到最后——我不认为这是剧透警告——事情与故事开始时的样子非常非常不同。
It is an amazing story.
这是一个奇妙的故事。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
And with that, I will pass things off to Sarah Koenig, who's the one who went to North Carolina and watched this all unfold.
接下来，我会将事情转告给莎拉·柯尼格，她是前往北卡罗来纳州并目睹这一切发生的人。
Here's Sarah.
这是莎拉。
When Benjamin first told me that he identified with Vince Gilmer, felt connected to him, I didn't really get it until I went there to the Cane Creek Clinic and hung around and watched Benjamin with his patients.
当本杰明第一次告诉我他认同文斯·吉尔默，感觉与他有联系时，我并没有真正明白，直到我去了坎恩溪诊所，在那里闲逛，看着本杰明和他的病人在一起。
What I hadn't understood is that Benjamin is the same kind of doctor Vince was.
我不明白的是，本杰明和文斯是同一类医生。
I don't know how else to say this, but he cares about his patients, really cares.
我不知道还能怎么说，但他关心他的病人，真的关心。
And they can tell, so they confess things.
他们可以告诉，所以他们承认事情。
The morning I spent there, a pregnant woman told him she did not want the baby's grandfather at the hospital when she gave birth.
我在那里度过的那天早上，一位孕妇告诉他，她生产时不希望孩子的祖父在医院。
And so, they crafted a plan for how to keep him at bay.
因此，他们制定了一个计划来阻止他。
A young mother of two said she'd just left her husband, which is better for everyone, even though she now had to work all the time and put her kids in daycare.
一位有两个孩子的年轻母亲说，她刚刚离开了丈夫，这对每个人来说都更好，尽管她现在必须一直工作并把孩子送去日托中心。
You are doing good work with your children, Benjamin told her.
“你和你的孩子们做得很好，”本杰明告诉她。
And she almost started to cry.
她几乎要哭了。
There was an older patient, who came in anxious about a lump in her groin that Benjamin had already assured her was benign.
有一位年长的病人，她因腹股沟处的肿块而感到焦虑，本杰明已经向她保证该肿块是良性的。
He gives her a sonogram.
他给她做了超声波检查。
So see?
那么看到了吗？
See that black area?
看到那个黑色区域了吗？
Female Patient I do.
女病人我愿意。
That black area is fluid.
那个黑色区域是流动的。
Female Patient OK.
女病人好。
It's not a solid mass.
它不是一个固体。
Masses-- for example, like cancer-- are solid and become white.
肿块——例如癌症——是固体并变成白色。
So that's black, which we call anechoic.
这就是黑色，我们称之为消声。
So that means--
所以这意味着——
She does not need the sonogram.
她不需要超声检查。
And he will not charge her for the sonogram.
他不会向她收取超声波检查费用。
But he knows it's the one thing that's going to make her feel better, if she can just visualize this harmless thing.
但他知道，如果她能想象出这个无害的东西，那就会让她感觉好一点。
And it works.
它有效。
By the end of the appointment, she's laughing.
约会结束时，她笑了。
[LAUGHING] Sarah Koenig This doctor-patient trust, it's so intimate in a little practice like this one.
[笑] Sarah Koenig 这种医患信任，在像这样的小实践中是如此亲密。
And now, Benjamin Gilmer and Vince Gilmer know some of the same intimate things about the same people.
现在，本杰明·吉尔默和文斯·吉尔默知道同一个人的一些相同的私密事情。
And that's why Benjamin started to feel connected to Vince.
这就是为什么本杰明开始感觉与文斯有联系。
And then one day, last fall, one of Vince's former patients said something that rattled Benjamin.
去年秋天的一天，文斯的一位前病人说了一些让本杰明感到不安的事情。
It was an older man.
那是一位年长的男子。
He just caught me in the hall and said, hey, you know that Dr. Gilmer knows you're here?
他在大厅里抓住了我，然后说，嘿，你知道吉尔默博士知道你在这里吗？
He knows-- he knows you're practicing.
他知道——他知道你在练习。
You know that, don't you?
你知道的，不是吗？
And at that moment, I had-- I really had never thought about that, that of course he knows exactly what my name was, where I live, and that I'm working in his home.
在那一刻，我真的从来没有想过，他当然知道我的名字、我住在哪里、我在他家里工作。
You know, this clinic was his baby.
要知道，这家诊所是他的宝贝。
He built it.
他建造了它。
He dedicated his life to it.
他为此奉献了一生。
And my sort of neurosis was that I had taken over his life in a way that felt very new and strange.
我的神经症是我以一种感觉非常新奇的方式接管了他的生活。
The thought of being this close to a murderer, he said, was terrifying.
他说，一想到与凶手如此接近，就感到可怕。
And Benjamin started to cook up irrational fears.
本杰明开始制造非理性的恐惧。
He couldn't help it.
他无法控制。
He worried Vince would get out of prison and come after him in some way.
他担心文斯出狱后会以某种方式追捕他。
At one point, a patient mentioned that Vince was, in fact, out on parole.
有一次，一名病人提到文斯实际上正在假释。
It turned out not to be true, but for weeks afterward, Benjamin was on alert, scanning the outside of the building when he arrived.
事实证明这不是真的，但几周后，本杰明到达时一直保持警惕，扫描建筑物的外部。
I come in right after him.
我紧随他进来。
And, you know, he would be, like, looking at the door, who's coming in and stuff.
而且，你知道，他会看着门，看看谁进来了之类的。
This is Laura Lira Hernandez, medical assistant at the clinic.
我是劳拉·利拉·埃尔南德斯 (Laura Lira Hernandez)，诊所的医疗助理。
And so, for like a week, we're in panic mode, thinking that somebody-- that he was going to show up here.
因此，大约一周以来，我们都处于恐慌状态，认为有人——他会出现在这里。
He was telling me-- Dr. Gilmer was telling me that he was having nightmares and stuff.
他告诉我——吉尔默医生告诉我他做了噩梦之类的事情。
For a few days after that, that came out.
在那之后的几天里，这个消息就出来了。
When I met Benjamin, this is where he stood, confused about the two versions of Vince Gilmer coexisting in his head, the murderer and the good doctor.
当我见到本杰明时，他就站在这里，对他脑海中共存的文斯·吉尔默的两个版本感到困惑：凶手和好医生。
I mean, he obviously was crazy when he did this act.
我的意思是，他做这件事时显然是疯了。
Didn't sound like it was an intentional thing, that he was a premeditated, as I understand it.
听起来这不像是故意的，据我了解，他是有预谋的。
This is the trouble.
这就是麻烦所在。
Like, I'm still confused by whether he was good or not.
就像，我仍然对他是否优秀感到困惑。
You know, it's kind of like living with a ghost in your house.
你知道，这有点像和鬼魂一起住在你的房子里。
And you tell your kids it's a friendly ghost, but you never know where the ghost is coming from.
你告诉你的孩子这是一个友好的鬼魂，但你永远不知道鬼魂来自哪里。
So I'm planning to spend my professional life in that building.
所以我打算在那栋大楼里度过我的职业生涯。
It's not going to go away.
它不会消失。
And until I know more, I'm not going to be able to let it go.
在我了解更多之前，我不会放手。
Benjamin needed to sort out this mystery of how a beloved family doctor with no criminal history suddenly ups and strangles his own dad, how a good man seems to turn into a bad man.
本杰明需要解开这个谜团：一个受人爱戴、没有犯罪记录的家庭医生如何突然掐死自己的父亲，一个好人似乎如何变成一个坏人。
So you've never seen a picture of him before?
那么你以前从未见过他的照片吗？
I've never seen a picture.
我从来没有见过照片。
The only thing I've heard from a couple of patients is I kind of look like him.
我从几个病人那里听到的唯一一句话就是我长得有点像他。
He started with Terry Worley.
他从特里·沃利开始。
She was office manager at the Cane Creek Clinic, and good friends with Vince and his wife, Karen, who was also a physician.
她是 Cane Creek 诊所的办公室经理，也是文斯和他的妻子凯伦（凯伦也是一名医生）的好朋友。
They'd started the clinic together and worked together.
他们一起创办了诊所并一起工作。
Vince and Karen didn't have kids of their own, but Vince would come to Terry's kids' basketball games.
文斯和凯伦没有自己的孩子，但文斯会来看特里的孩子们的篮球比赛。
She said he was like part of their family.
她说他就像他们家庭的一部分。
He's bald.
他秃头了。
There's a picture of him.
有一张他的照片。
That was our staff when everything happened.
事情发生时那是我们的员工。
And that's him kneeling?
那是他跪着的吗？
Terry Worley That's him kneeling.
特里·沃利 那是他跪着的。
Terry told us two interesting things about the year leading up to the murder.
特里告诉我们有关谋杀案发生前一年的两件有趣的事情。
First, Vince had a bad car accident.
首先，文斯遭遇了一场严重的车祸。
He flipped his truck just off an exit ramp.
他的卡车刚冲出出口坡道就翻了。
He hit a light pole and it-- the light pole came down and kind of went across his truck.
他撞到了一根灯杆，然后灯杆掉了下来，撞上了他的卡车。
They took him to the hospital.
他们把他送往医院。
And I guess he had ID on him, is how they knew who he was.
我猜他身上有身份证，他们就是这样知道他是谁的。
And they called Karen.
他们打电话给凯伦。
But he told me at the hospital that he was Bobby Brown.
但他在医院告诉我他是鲍比·布朗。
He didn't know who he was.
他不知道自己是谁。
He didn't know who Karen was when she got there.
当凯伦到达那里时，他不知道她是谁。
He didn't know he was married.
他不知道自己已经结婚了。
And then, that lasted for about 24 hours.
然后，这种情况持续了大约24小时。
And then they let him come home and he was kind of back to himself.
然后他们让他回家，他就恢复了正常。
But I think he had a pretty good bang to the head.
但我认为他的头部受到了很好的撞击。
Here's the strangest part.
这是最奇怪的部分。
Terry said she thought Vince had maybe crashed his truck on purpose.
特里说，她认为文斯可能是故意撞坏了他的卡车。
He was scheduled to take his medical board exams at that time.
当时他原定要参加医学委员会考试。
And he was exceedingly anxious about them.
他对他们非常担心。
He'd always been a bad test-taker.
他考试成绩一直很差。
His mother told us he had attention deficit disorder as a kid.
他的母亲告诉我们，他小时候患有注意力缺陷障碍。
And Terry says it occurred to her that the accident was a way to avoid taking the boards.
特里说，她想到这次事故是为了避免抢走木板。
And I think it was his way of getting out of it.
我认为这是他摆脱困境的方式。
Which, at the same time, he had wanted a new truck, too.
与此同时，他也想要一辆新卡车。
And Karen-- Karen had told him he couldn't have a new truck.
还有凯伦——凯伦告诉他他不能拥有一辆新卡车。
I mean, she was the one that kind of kept the, you know, the handle on the money.
我的意思是，她是那个掌握着钱的人。
And he had his eye on this Toyota Tundra truck and a Toyota Tacoma.
他看中了这辆丰田坦途卡车和一辆丰田塔科马。
Anyway, he ended up with a new truck after the fact.
不管怎样，事后他最终得到了一辆新卡车。
So it could have been one of the two.
所以它可能是两者之一。
I'm just saying.
我只是说说而已。
But that's crazy, though.
但这太疯狂了。
That's, like, the riskiest behavior ever.
这是有史以来最危险的行为。
It is crazy.
这太疯狂了。
Sarah Koenig Another friend who didn't want to go on tape also told us, unsolicited, that he thought Vince might've crashed his truck on purpose, possibly as a suicide attempt.
莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig）另一位不愿录下录音的朋友也主动告诉我们，他认为文斯可能故意撞毁了他的卡车，可能是企图自杀。
Then, not too long after the truck accident, Vince and Karen split up, which floored their friends.
然后，卡车事故发生后不久，文斯和凯伦分手了，这让他们的朋友感到震惊。
Terry says it came out of nowhere.
特里说它不知从何而来。
Just out of the blue, he came in one day and said him and Karen were getting a divorce.
有一天，他出乎意料地进来，说他和凯伦要离婚。
Nobody had a clue that they were even having any problems.
没有人知道他们遇到了任何问题。
She says, I asked him to go to counseling and everything.
她说，我请他去接受咨询等等。
And he's like, no, I've already got a place to live.
他说，不，我已经有地方住了。
He went and found a place to live and moved out that weekend.
他找到了住处，并在周末搬了出去。
So you're saying everything seemed normal until that pronouncement?
所以你是说在宣布之前一切看起来都很正常？
Like, he comes in and says, like, Karen and I are splitting?
就像，他进来说，就像，凯伦和我要分手？
And then things changed from that moment, it feels like?
然后事情从那一刻起就发生了变化，感觉怎么样？
Yeah.
是的。
It was just like a-- it was like a light switch.
它就像一个——就像一个电灯开关。
But he just-- it's-- I thought it was a mid-life crisis.
但他只是——我认为这是一场中年危机。
You know, sometimes men go through a midlife crisis and they go out and buy a car, go out and have an affair or something.
你知道，有时男人会经历中年危机，他们会出去买车，出去发生外遇什么的。
We figured it would just blow over.
我们认为它很快就会过去。
And then, that's when he went out and started drinking, and we saw a side of him we had not seen before.
然后，就在他出去开始喝酒的时候，我们看到了他以前从未见过的一面。
Vince's friends said he was drinking three or four nights a week, mostly at a bar in downtown Ashville called Jack of the Wood.
文斯的朋友们说，他每周喝三四个晚上的酒，大部分时间是在阿什维尔市中心一家名为 Jack of the Wood 的酒吧里。
But Terry says he's still seemed fine at work, and that he was fine the Monday they closed the clinic early, June 28, 2004, so that Vince could go pick up his father, Dalton Gilmer.
但特里说他在工作中看起来仍然很好，而且在 2004 年 6 月 28 日星期一他们提前关闭了诊所，以便文斯可以去接他的父亲道尔顿·吉尔默时，他也很好。
Dalton was at a psychiatric hospital.
道尔顿住在一家精神病院。
It's called Broughton Hospital.
它叫布劳顿医院。
It's not clear what exactly was wrong with Dalton.
目前还不清楚道尔顿到底出了什么问题。
But according to court records, he was taking antipsychotic medication and he needed help taking care of himself-- dressing, bathing, even eating sometimes.
但根据法庭记录，他正在服用抗精神病药物，需要帮助照顾自己——穿衣、洗澡，有时甚至吃饭。
And he could barely walk.
他几乎无法行走。
He needed a wheelchair or a walker.
他需要轮椅或助行器。
He was 60 years old.
他已经 60 岁了。
Vince had made arrangements to transfer his father from Broughton to a nursing home very close to the Cane Creek Clinic.
文斯已安排将他的父亲从布劳顿转移到靠近凯恩溪诊所的疗养院。
So that Monday afternoon, he drove up to Broughton and collected his father.
于是那个星期一下午，他开车去布劳顿接他的父亲。
I had every intention of taking him to the nursing home, Vince said at trial.
“我一心想带他去疗养院，”文斯在审判中说。
But Vince says he promised to first take his dad to a favorite lake, several hours out of the way.
但文斯说，他答应先带父亲去一个最喜欢的湖，距离这里有几个小时的路程。
He did have a big green kayak in the back of his truck, but remember, his dad can't walk.
他的卡车后面确实有一艘绿色的大皮划艇，但请记住，他的父亲不能走路。
And Vince has no walker in the truck.
文斯的卡车里没有助行器。
Plus, it's getting late.
另外，时间已经晚了。
So this plan didn't make much sense.
所以这个计划没有多大意义。
The heart of Vince's story about the crime is probably something that, if you're listening with little kids right now, you might not want them to hear.
文斯关于犯罪故事的核心内容可能是，如果你现在和小孩子一起听，你可能不希望他们听到。
Vince says his father sexually abused him and his younger sister from the time they were 6 and three years old, respectively.
文斯说，他的父亲从他和他的妹妹分别六岁和三岁时就对他们进行性虐待。
The abuse he describes is maybe the most horrific I've ever heard of.
他所描述的虐待行为可能是我听过的最可怕的。
Vince's sister apparently corroborated the abuse, but she disappeared just before the trial in 2005.
文斯的姐姐显然证实了这一虐待行为，但她在 2005 年审判前失踪了。
And her family has not seen or heard from her since.
从那以后，她的家人就再也没有见过她，也没有收到她的消息。
Vince's mother claims she never knew about the sexual abuse, not until after the murder.
文斯的母亲声称，直到谋杀案发生后，她才知道性虐待的事。
She said her husband was a Vietnam vet, who came back from the war a changed and sporadically violent man.
她说，她的丈夫是一名越战老兵，从战争中回来后，他的性格发生了变化，并且偶尔有暴力行为。
Vince says his father was apt to make inappropriate sexual remarks and gropes, and that's what happened in the truck that day.
文斯说，他的父亲很容易发表不恰当的性言论和猥亵行为，这就是那天在卡车上发生的事情。
He kept saying filthy, filthy things, Vince said at trial.
文斯在受审时表示，他一直在说非常非常下流的话。
And that's when he lost it, he says.
他说，就在那时他失去了它。
Vince said a voice in his head, like a compulsion, was telling him to kill his father.
文斯说，他脑子里有一个声音，就像一种冲动，告诉他要杀掉他的父亲。
I reach over with the rope and I place the rope around his neck and pull on it and pull on it and pull on it.
我伸手拿着绳子，把绳子套在他的脖子上，拉啊拉啊拉啊。
Then Vince says he drove around for hours, panicked, trying to figure out what to do with the body, which he'd moved to the bed of the pickup.
文斯说，随后他开了几个小时的车，惊慌失措，试图弄清楚如何处理尸体，他把尸体搬到了皮卡车的床上。
Eventually, he carried it onto the side of Good Hope Road, near the Virginia/Tennessee border.
最终，他把它带到了弗吉尼亚州/田纳西州边境附近的好望路一侧。
And he performed what the Virginia medical examiner would later describe as traumatic amputations of all 10 fingers.
他执行了弗吉尼亚法医后来描述的全部 10 根手指的创伤性截肢手术。
He cut off his father's fingers and thumbs.
他砍掉了父亲的手指和拇指。
Vince says he used a little saw he had in the back of his truck for trees around the house.
文斯说，他用卡车后部的一把小锯子锯房子周围的树木。
Vince said he did this to prevent the body from being identified.
文斯说，他这样做是为了防止尸体被辨认。
And then, Vince went home.
然后，文斯回家了。
The body was quickly found, still warm, and quickly identified.
尸体很快就被发现了，尸体还温热，并很快被辨认出来。
In the pocket of his tanned shorts, in the inside color of his polo shirt, stamped in black ink, D.
在他晒黑的短裤的口袋里，在他的 Polo 衫的内部颜色上，用黑色墨水印着 D.
Gilmer.
吉尔默.
Name tags that Vince says he himself had arranged for.
文斯说他自己安排了名牌。
After learning this much, Benjamin started conjuring a hypothesis about Vince.
了解了这些之后，本杰明开始对文斯做出一个假设。
Benjamin did his master's thesis on traumatic brain injuries prior to Med school.
本杰明在进入医学院之前就完成了关于创伤性脑损伤的硕士论文。
To him, the truck accident was key to the whole thing.
对他来说，卡车事故是整件事的关键。
Maybe Vince had some lurking hereditary craziness that was unmasked by big bonk to the head.
也许文斯有一些潜在的遗传性疯狂，但被头部的重击暴露了。
Or, in Benjamin's words, latent neurologic sequelae, triggered by brain trauma.
或者，用本杰明的话来说，是由脑外伤引发的潜在神经系统后遗症。
He was unconscious and didn't recognize his own wife afterwards.
之后他就昏迷不醒，不认识自己的妻子了。
And then, after that period, there was a demarcation between this strange behavior that started happening.
然后，在那段时间之后，这种奇怪的行为之间开始发生了界限。
I think he had to be going crazy.
我想他一定是疯了。
I think the craziness started a year before the murder.
我认为疯狂是在谋杀案发生前一年开始的。
Leaving a wife who loved him after so many years and assuming that she would stay in the practice and work side by side with him?
离开深爱自己多年的妻子，还以为她会继续修炼，与他并肩工作？
That's not rational thinking.
这不是理性思考。
If Vince snapped as he claimed, then it's hard to square his behavior immediately following the crime.
如果文斯像他声称的那样发脾气，那么很难在犯罪后立即纠正他的行为。
Because from the sound of it, he told a cascade of lies coolly, no bead of sweat running down his temple.
因为听他的声音，他一连串的谎言都是冷静的，太阳穴上没有流下一滴汗水。
On Tuesday, the day after the murder, Vince told his office manager, Terry Worley, and everyone else that he brought his father home.
星期二，也就是谋杀案发生的第二天，文斯告诉他的办公室经理特里·沃利和其他所有人，他把他的父亲带回家了。
And that sometime during the night, his father had wandered off.
那天晚上的某个时候，他的父亲走丢了。
He said he had people out looking.
他说他已经派人出去寻找了。
He filled out a police report, didn't cancel any appointments.
他填写了一份警方报告，没有取消任何预约。
In fact, the very first patient he saw was Terry's son, for asthma.
事实上，他见到的第一个病人是特里的儿子，患有哮喘。
He was totally normal.
他完全正常。
He was totally normal the whole time.
他一直都很正常。
Really?
真的吗？
Terry Worley He never broke down, seemed overly anxious because his dad was missing, nothing.
特里·沃利（Terry Worley） 他从未崩溃过，似乎过于焦虑，因为他的父亲失踪了，什么也没有。
Vince kept seeing patients all week.
文斯整个星期都在看望病人。
Then on Friday, Vince invited the staff out to lunch at a favorite restaurant called Iannucci's.
然后周五，文斯邀请员工到一家名为 Iannucci's 的最喜欢的餐厅吃午餐。
While they were there, he got a phone call from a detective, telling him they'd found a body in Virginia.
当他们在那里时，他接到一名侦探的电话，告诉他他们在弗吉尼亚州发现了一具尸体。
Again, Terry Worley.
再说一遍，特里·沃利。
And he just-- all color, he lost complete color and just-- he was in shock.
他只是——所有的颜色，他完全失去了颜色，只是——他感到震惊。
I mean, he literally about passed out.
我的意思是，他几乎昏倒了。
He had to lay down on the bench at Iannucci's.
他不得不躺在伊安努奇家的长凳上。
And the woman got him a cold compress for his head.
那个女人给他的头做了冷敷。
I don't know what was going through his head, if he was thinking, oh, crap, I'm caught.
我不知道他脑子里在想什么，他是否在想，哦，糟糕，我被抓住了。
Or, now I've got to cover my tracks.
或者，现在我必须掩盖我的踪迹。
I don't know what he thought.
我不知道他怎么想的。
And he just-- as he was handing me the phone, he says, you have to talk to my office manager.
当他把电话递给我时，他说，你必须和我的办公室经理谈谈。
And kind of shoved the phone to me.
然后把电话推给我。
Benjamin and I talked to this detective.
本杰明和我与这位侦探交谈过。
His name is Mike Martin.
他的名字叫迈克·马丁。
Benjamin was on speaker phone.
本杰明正在使用免提电话。
Does this case stand out to you in your professional life?
这个案例在您的职业生涯中对您来说很突出吗？
It is a unique case, as in he was able to kill his father and show no remorse.
这是一个独特的案例，因为他能够杀死他的父亲并且毫无悔意。
Detective Martin says when he showed up at Vince's door, Vince was cordial and composed.
马丁警探说，当他出现在文斯家门口时，文斯态度诚恳、镇静。
During the interview at Mr. Gilmer's home, he told me that he had brought his father to North Carolina to stay with him.
在吉尔默先生家里接受采访时，他告诉我，他已经把他的父亲带到了北卡罗来纳州和他住在一起。
And that upon their arrival, that Daddy was so delighted to be there that he had went out into the yard and played with the dog, throwing a Frisbee.
当他们到达时，爸爸非常高兴能在那里，他走到院子里和狗一起玩，扔了一个飞盘。
I already knew that could not be true, because the people at Broughton Hospital told me that Mr. Gilmer senior could not have walked on his own at any time.
我已经知道这不可能是真的，因为布劳顿医院的人告诉我，老吉尔默先生任何时候都不可能自己走路。
He said, you don't believe what I'm telling you.
他说，你不相信我告诉你的话。
I said, no, sir.
我说，不，先生。
Not at all.
一点也不。
Not in the least.
一点也不。
I do not believe you.
我不相信你。
I said, the very questions that any person would be asking in reference to his parent death, you have not asked, which is an excellent indicator that you already know.
我说，任何人都会问关于父母去世的问题，但你没有问，这是一个很好的指标，表明你已经知道了。
He wasn't scared.
他并不害怕。
He wasn't agitated.
他并没有激动。
He told me, he said, look.
他告诉我，他说，看。
He said, you do not know who you are messing with.
他说，你不知道你在惹谁。
He said, I am a doctor of medicine.
他说，我是一名医学博士。
I am well respected in the state of North Carolina.
我在北卡罗来纳州很受尊重。
And I will have your damned job.
我会接手你那该死的工作。
I said, sir, it is my job to do the investigation.
我说，先生，调查是我的工作。
And based on what I know, I will consult with the Commonwealth attorney.
根据我所知，我将咨询联邦律师。
And I will ask for a warrant for your arrest for murder.
我会要求以谋杀罪逮捕你的逮捕令。
When we left, we said, sir, thank you for your time.
当我们离开时，我们说，先生，谢谢您的宝贵时间。
And he closed the door and never said a word.
然后他关上了门，一句话也没有说。
Before Detective Martin could get back to Cane Creek with a warrant, Vince ran, took some camping equipment and hid out.
在马丁侦探带着搜查令返回坎恩溪之前，文斯跑了，拿了一些露营装备并躲了起来。
The cops finally caught up with him in the woods near the Lowe's hardware store at the Asheville mall.
警察最终在阿什维尔购物中心劳氏五金店附近的树林里抓住了他。
Did you come away thinking this was a premeditated-- like he planned this murder in advance and then executed it?
你是否认为这是一场有预谋的谋杀——就像他提前策划了这起谋杀然后执行了它一样？
That it wasn't a spur of the moment, he kind of lost control and years of abuse and anger welled up and overpowered him?
这不是一时冲动，他有点失去了控制，多年的虐待和愤怒涌上心头，压倒了他？
Spur of the moment didn't buy the gloves.
一时冲动没有买手套。
It didn't buy the rope.
没有买绳子。
And it didn't put the pruning shears in the pickup truck.
而且它没有把修枝剪放在皮卡车里。
Other things Benjamin and I learned from Terry Worley.
本杰明和我从特里·沃利那里学到了其他东西。
Vince was his father's guardian.
文斯是他父亲的监护人。
He was supposed to be paying his father's bills out of his father's money, but he didn't.
他本来应该用他父亲的钱来支付他父亲的账单，但他没有。
By the time he killed his father, he owed the psychiatric hospital where his father had been staying more than $270,000.
当他杀死父亲时，他欠父亲一直住的精神病院超过27万美元。
A motive, maybe.
也许是一个动机。
Also, Vince had planned a two week vacation to Alaska that coincided with his father's killing.
此外，文斯还计划去阿拉斯加度假两周，恰逢他父亲被杀。
Terry says the investigators questioned her about it.
特里说调查人员就此询问了她。
They asked me if I knew it was a one way ticket.
他们问我是否知道这是一张单程票。
I said, no, I helped him book it.
我说不用了，我帮他订的。
And they showed me where it had been changed to a one-way flight.
他们向我展示了哪里已更改为单程航班。
So he wasn't planning on coming back.
所以他本来就不打算回来。
He thought he was going to get gone.
他以为他要走了。
By the time we'd finished talking to Terry, Benjamin was deflated.
当我们和特里聊完时，本杰明已经泄气了。
Vince was sounding more and more like this cold-blooded killer.
文斯的语气越来越像这个冷血杀手。
We debriefed.
我们听取了汇报。
It just seems like he's lying.
看起来他只是在撒谎。
It just seems to me like he's lying.
在我看来他在撒谎。
You really believe that?
你真的相信吗？
Sarah Koenig I think he's lying about this having snapped.
莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig） 我认为他在这件事上撒了谎。
I do.
我愿意。
I think I do.
我想我知道。
I mean it just doesn't-- it doesn't make sense with all the things that Terry said.
我的意思是，特里所说的一切都没有道理。
This is a guy who had made a plan, no?
这家伙是有计划的吧？
To me, it does.
对我来说，确实如此。
Benjamin Gilmer Yeah.
本杰明·吉尔默 是的。
That's a total game changer.
这彻底改变了游戏规则。
That's-- that's not crazy.
这——这并不疯狂。
That is rational planning with a motive.
这就是有动机的理性规划。
I was kind of hoping not to hear that.
我有点希望不要听到这个。
Soon after Vince Gilmer was caught by the police, he confessed to strangling his father.
文斯·吉尔默被警察抓获后不久，他承认勒死了自己的父亲。
His defense boiled down to one word, serotonin.
他的辩护归结为一个词：血清素。
That was his excuse, his disease, his all-purpose defect, serotonin.
那是他的借口，他的疾病，他的万能缺陷，血清素。
Or rather, lack of serotonin in his brain.
或者更确切地说，他的大脑中缺乏血清素。
Serotonin is a hormone, a neurotransmitter.
血清素是一种激素，一种神经递质。
If you don't have the right level of it in your brain, it can affect your mood, which is why many antidepressants increase your serotonin level.
如果您的大脑中血清素水平不正常，就会影响您的情绪，这就是为什么许多抗抑郁药会增加您的血清素水平。
These drugs are called SSRIs, Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors.
这些药物称为 SSRI，即选择性血清素再摄取抑制剂。
If you stop taking them abruptly, you can have suicidal thoughts, severe agitation, even psychosis.
如果突然停止服用，您可能会产生自杀念头、严重焦躁，甚至精神错乱。
What you believe about Vince's crime depends on whether you believe he was out of his mind at the time of the killing, whether you believe that missing his SSRI pills could transform him from a loving doctor into a psycho.
你对文斯犯罪的看法取决于你是否相信他在杀人时已经失去了理智，是否相信丢失他的 SSRI 药物会使他从一个充满爱心的医生变成一个精神病患者。
Here's Vince's explanation for what happened.
以下是文斯对所发生事件的解释。
He'd been struggling with anxiety for years.
多年来他一直在与焦虑作斗争。
And after he and Karen split up, in the months leading up to the murder, he'd been taking Lexapro, an SSRI.
在他和凯伦分手后，在谋杀案发生前的几个月里，他一直在服用 Lexapro，一种 SSRI 药物。
He says a day or two before he went to pick up his dad, he stopped the Lexapro.
他说，在他去接父亲的前一两天，他停掉了 Lexapro。
Didn't taper it off like you're supposed to, he just stopped.
他并没有像你应该的那样逐渐减少，他只是停了下来。
And he reacted very badly.
而且他的反应非常糟糕。
He became extraordinarily irritable, heard voices.
他变得异常烦躁，听到各种声音。
His brain didn't work right, he said.
他说，他的大脑无法正常工作。
He felt, quote, "mentally retarded".
引用他的话来说，他觉得自己“弱智”。
In a letter to a doctor he wrote from jail, this is how he describes the voices he heard when he was off the Lexapro.
在他从监狱里写给医生的一封信中，他这样描述了他离开 Lexapro 时听到的声音。
"These are not voices that make a suggestion.
“这些不是提出建议的声音。
This is a compulsion.
这是一种强迫。
The compulsion is trying to take over my consciousness.
强迫症正试图控制我的意识。
I fight the compulsion in the front part of my head.
我与大脑前部的强迫作斗争。
It is a hyperanxious state.
这是一种过度焦虑的状态。
Pacing becomes mandatory, trying to walk off the pressure.
节奏变得强制性，试图摆脱压力。
The battle hurts badly."
战斗很痛苦。”
One of the phrases he kept using over and over was that, my brain wasn't working right.
他一遍又一遍地使用的短语之一是，我的大脑无法正常工作。
You know, my head wasn't working right.
你知道，我的脑子不太正常。
This is reporter Matt Lakin.
我是记者马特·拉金。
Back in 2004, he was covering crime for the Bristol Herald Courier.
早在 2004 年，他就为《布里斯托先驱信使》报道犯罪事件。
He spoke to Vince soon after the murder, both on the phone and in person.
谋杀案发生后不久，他通过电话和当面与文斯进行了交谈。
And Matt says Vince seemed like an intelligent guy, a nice guy, pleasant to talk to.
马特说文斯看起来是一个聪明的人，一个好人，很乐意与之交谈。
Not obviously crazy, maybe just eccentric and a little manipulative.
并不明显疯狂，也许只是古怪并且有点控制欲。
He would go into these bizarre-- he'd make these strange gestures, where he would bob his head up and down and just sort of kind of shake.
他会做出这些奇怪的动作——他会做出这些奇怪的手势，他会上下摇头，甚至有点摇晃。
He would-- it was just almost, you know, I almost had a sense that he was hamming it up sometimes.
他会——你知道，我几乎感觉到他有时在夸夸其谈。
Right.
正确的。
I mean, whenever I would point out a flaw in his story, for example, he would suddenly get emotional and start to cry.
我的意思是，例如，每当我指出他的故事中的缺陷时，他就会突然变得情绪化并开始哭泣。
So either he was having tremendous mood swings, or he was trying to avoid the question.
所以要么他的情绪波动很大，要么他试图回避这个问题。
Which one do you think it was?
你认为是哪一个？
This question lurked throughout Vince's initial incarceration and court appearances.
这个问题潜伏在文斯最初的监禁和出庭期间。
Was he crazy?
他疯了吗？
Or was he crazy like a fox?
还是他像狐狸一样疯狂？
We asked Mike Martin, the Virginia detective in charge of the murder investigation, whether he ever saw evidence of mental illness in Vince, whether he ever questioned if the cops had gotten it wrong.
我们询问负责谋杀案调查的弗吉尼亚侦探迈克·马丁（Mike Martin），他是否曾在文斯身上看到过精神疾病的证据，是否曾质疑过警察是否弄错了。
I can tell you what we done for Mr. Gilmer.
我可以告诉你我们为吉尔默先生做了什么。
We got to watching him.
我们得看着他。
And each time, police officers would come around him, he would--
每次，警察都会围住他，他会——
Detective Martin said he and his fellow officers had noticed Vince shaking his arm and his head, and that he only seemed to do it around them, not around the other inmates.
马丁侦探说，他和他的同事们注意到文斯摇晃着手臂和头部，而且他似乎只在他们周围这样做，而不是在其他囚犯周围。
They were suspicious.
他们很怀疑。
So we set up a camera on the rec yard, and invited the inmates out on the rec yard to play.
于是我们在游乐场安装了摄像头，并邀请犯人到游乐场玩耍。
And they played basketball.
他们还打篮球。
Mr. Gilmer participated in playing basketball as the rest did.
吉尔默先生和其他人一样参加打篮球。
He participated in the walks around the yards as the rest did.
他和其他人一样参加了院子里的散步。
And then we purposely sent the officer, James Blevins, who was assisting me in this case.
然后我们特意派出了在这起案件中协助我的警官詹姆斯·布莱文斯（James Blevins）。
When Mr. Gilmer seen the officer, he automatically started to shake the head and arm.
当吉尔默先生看到这名警官时，他不自觉地开始摇头和手臂。
And he did that until such time that Detective Blevins left the rec yard.
他一直这样做，直到布莱文斯警探离开游乐场。
Mr. Gilmer is not somebody that's been controlled by some demon.
吉尔默先生不是一个被恶魔控制的人。
He is very self-controlled.
他的自制力很强。
A clinical psychologist named Jeffrey Feix came to a similar conclusion.
一位名叫杰弗里·费克斯的临床心理学家也得出了类似的结论。
Feix evaluated Vince to find out if he was sane at the time of the crime.
菲克斯对文斯进行了评估，以确定他在犯罪时是否神智正常。
He reported that Vince was agitated, quote, "spoke in a halting fashion, fidgeted while sitting, stood with a stooped posture, occasionally paced, and gesticulated broadly with his hands while talking.
他报告说，文斯很激动，“说话时结结巴巴，坐着时坐立不安，站立时弯着腰，偶尔踱步，说话时双手大幅度打手势。
This presentation was very dramatic and not consistent with known anxiety or psychotic disorders."
这种表现非常戏剧化，与已知的焦虑或精神障碍不一致。”
Feix went on, "it appeared that the patient was exaggerating his symptoms for the benefit of the evaluator and treatment team.
菲克斯继续说道：“看来患者为了评估人员和治疗团队的利益而夸大了自己的症状。
It is respectfully recommended that Dr. Gilmer be considered legally sane at the time of the offense." Later that fall, another psychiatrist found Vince to be quote, "evasive, dramatic, and manipulative." And by mid-2006, the prison doctors had settled on a two-pronged diagnosis-- atypical depression and malingering.
我们谨建议吉尔默博士在犯罪时被认为在法律上是理智的。”那年秋天晚些时候，另一位精神病学家发现文斯“回避、戏剧性且善于操纵”。到 2006 年中期，监狱医生做出了两方面的诊断：非典型抑郁症和诈病。
In other words, lying.
换句话说，就是撒谎。
From jury selection forward, the trial was a disaster for Vince.
从陪审团遴选开始，这次审判对文斯来说就是一场灾难。
His performance, his explanations, they appeared to move no one.
他的表现，他的解释，似乎没有打动任何人。
I talked to a man named Robert Hughes, who was called to serve on the jury, though eventually excused.
我和一个名叫罗伯特·休斯的人交谈过，他被任命为陪审团成员，但最终被原谅了。
When he would talk to us, Mr. Hughes said of Vince, he would act like he was nuts.
休斯先生谈到文斯时说，当他和我们说话时，他表现得好像疯了一样。
Then, when he turned around to talk to his lawyers, he was as cool as anything.
然后，当他转身与律师交谈时，他表现得很冷静。
We argued at trial that he was planning his defense, essentially, prior to committing the crime in the first place.
我们在审判中辩称，他基本上是在犯罪之前就计划了辩护。
Nicole Price was one of the prosecutors.
妮可·普莱斯是检察官之一。
When she lists all the evidence, the state's case sounds pretty straightforward.
当她列出所有证据时，该州的案件听起来相当简单。
Vince had made careful plans to pick his father up.
文斯精心计划去接他的父亲。
He had all the materials he needed to carry out the crime right there in his truck.
他的卡车里备有实施犯罪所需的所有材料。
He mutilated the body to hide the identity, and then dumped it in Virginia, far from where he himself lived.
他肢解了尸体以隐藏身份，然后将其丢弃在远离他自己居住地的弗吉尼亚州。
And the other evidence that we had were conversations, recorded conversations that he had with friends.
我们掌握的其他证据是谈话，记录了他与朋友的谈话。
And in those conversations, he talks about using the-- you know, playing the good doctor card as hard as we can.
在这些谈话中，他谈到要尽可能地发挥好医生的作用。
He talks about that he would prefer to be tried in Tennessee, because he felt that his sentence would be less.
他谈到他更愿意在田纳西州受审，因为他觉得他的刑期会更轻。
And so, at different times, he advised law enforcement that the murder occurred in North Carolina, that it occurred in Virginia, and that it occurred in Tennessee.
因此，他在不同的时间向执法部门通报，谋杀案发生在北卡罗来纳州、弗吉尼亚州和田纳西州。
And that was calculated to let him determine where this trial would be had.
那是为了让他决定这次审判在哪里进行。
So I think the evidence from his own mouth is that he was manipulating, in the hopes that he would convince a jury that he was not responsible for his criminal actions, because of some type of-- I don't know.
所以我认为他自己口中的证据是他在操纵，希望他能让陪审团相信他对自己的犯罪行为不负有责任，因为某种——我不知道。
That he was insane.
说他疯了。
And what is the craziest thing a man accused of first degree murder can do?
一个被指控犯有一级谋杀罪的男子能做的最疯狂的事情是什么？
The craziest, most stark-raving lunatic thing a man facing life in prison can do?
一个面临终身监禁的人能做的最疯狂、最疯狂的事情是什么？
The answer is dismiss his lawyers and choose to represent himself.
答案是解雇他的律师并选择为自己辩护。
And so, yes, that is what Vince Gilmer did.
所以，是的，文斯·吉尔默就是这么做的。
I used to be a court reporter.
我曾经是一名法庭记者。
And so, I read a lot of court transcripts, but none as farcical as this one.
因此，我读了很多法庭笔录，但没有一本像这篇那样滑稽。
It makes you wonder if maybe he really was crazy, because any casual watcher of Law & Order could have built a better case for himself than Vince Gilmer.
这让你怀疑他是否真的疯了，因为任何《法律与秩序》的休闲观察者都可以为自己建立比文斯·吉尔默更好的案子。
His witnesses are beside the point.
他的证人不是重点。
His own testimony favors the nonsensical.
他自己的证词支持无意义的说法。
Vince can barely string together a sentence before a prosecutor objects.
在检察官反对之前，文斯几乎无法说出一个句子。
At one point, Vince called his ex-girlfriend, Susan Garren to the stand.
有一次，文斯把他的前女友苏珊·加伦叫到了证人席上。
He asks her, "to the best of your knowledge, have I hurt anyone or killed anyone?
他问她：“据你所知，我伤害过任何人或杀过任何人吗？
Just have I hurt or killed anyone that you know of?" Susan, "Your father." Vince, "OK that-- have I besides what happened with my dad?" Susan, "Can you repeat the question, please?"
我有伤害或杀死过你认识的人吗？”苏珊：“你的父亲。”文斯：“好吧——除了我爸爸发生的事情之外，我还有什么吗？”苏珊：“请你重复一下这个问题好吗？”
His court-appointed attorney, who was there only to answer Vince's questions about court procedure, said it was agonizing to watch, like someone trying to commit suicide with a butter knife.
他的法庭指定律师只是来回答文斯有关法庭程序的问题，他说，看着这一幕令人痛苦，就像有人试图用黄油刀自杀一样。
Toward the end of the trial, Vince Gilmer says, Your Honor, I'd like to call Vince Gilmer.
审判即将结束时，文斯·吉尔默说，法官大人，我想给文斯·吉尔默打电话。
He talks and he talks and he talks for nearly two hours.
他讲啊讲啊讲啊，讲了将近两个小时。
And by the end, he loses his thread.
到最后，他失去了线索。
The prison docs have stopped his SSRIs meds, he said.
他说，监狱医生已经停止给他服用 SSRIs 药物。
"So when I came in here, I'm confused.
“所以当我来到这里时，我很困惑。
I had trouble-- I've had trouble with the confusion all the way through this.
我遇到了麻烦——我在整个过程中都遇到了困惑。
I know you're the jury, and I know he's the judge, so that makes me in Virginia-- you're-- I'm capable to-- I'm able to say I'm competent to be here.
我知道你是陪审团，我知道他是法官，所以这让我在弗吉尼亚——你——我有能力——我可以说我有能力来到这里。
This hasn't been the brightest of ideas, being my own lawyer."
作为我自己的律师，这并不是最明智的想法。”
A little later, prosecutor Nicole Price interjects.
过了一会儿，检察官妮可·普莱斯插话道。
"Isn't it true that you've been found competent to represent yourself?" "I am," says Vince.
“你不是已经被认定有能力代表自己了吗？” “我是，”文斯说。
"Are you fine right now?" Ms. Price asks.
“你现在还好吗？”普莱斯女士问道。
"No," says Vince.
“不，”文斯说。
The jury took about an hour to convict Vince Gilmer of first degree murder.
陪审团花了大约一个小时才判定文斯·吉尔默犯有一级谋杀罪。
The judge, the Honorable C.
法官 C.
Randall Lowe concurred.
兰德尔·洛表示同意。
Quote, "it was clear that it was malingering and faking," he said at a post-trial hearing.
他在审后听证会上表示，“很明显，这是装病和伪造。”
"The defendant would go into an act.
“被告会采取行动。
He would look up and see if the jury was buying it.
他会抬头看看陪审团是否相信。
When the jury wasn't buying it, he would go back to normal.
当陪审团不买账时，他就会恢复正常。
It was clear."
很清楚。”
Judge Lowe sentenced Vince to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
洛法官判处文斯终身监禁，不得假释。
So that's where it ended.
事情就这样结束了。
The entire law enforcement, medical, and legal community declared Vince a liar.
整个执法、医疗和法律界都宣布文斯是个骗子。
He went to a maximum security prison called Wallens Ridge in the mountains of far Western Virginia.
他被关进了位于弗吉尼亚州西部山区的一所高度戒备监狱，名叫沃伦斯岭监狱。
Coming up, Benjamin does not take premeditated for an answer.
接下来，本杰明并不认为是有预谋的答案。
A hunch, a blood test, and DNA evidence.
预感、验血和 DNA 证据。
And not the kind you're thinking of.
而且不是你想的那种。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
芝加哥公共广播电台一分钟后我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, Dr. Gilmer and Mr. Hyde.
今天我们的节目是吉尔默博士和海德先生。
If you just tuned in, Dr. Benjamin Gilmer is looking into a murder committed by Dr. Vince Gilmer, no relation.
如果您刚刚收听，本杰明·吉尔默博士正在调查文斯·吉尔默博士犯下的谋杀案，两者没有关系。
Where we left off before the break, Vince Gilmer was claiming that his brain was not functioning properly at the time of the murder.
中场休息前，文斯·吉尔默声称谋杀发生时他的大脑无法正常运作。
Two psychiatrists and a psychologist thought he was faking his supposed symptoms of a mental disturbance.
两名精神科医生和一名心理学家认为他是在伪造他所谓的精神障碍症状。
A jury thought he was faking, a judge thought he was faking.
陪审团认为他在造假，法官也认为他在造假。
Our reporter on the case, Sarah Koenig, was inclined to think that all these people cannot probably be wrong.
我们的案件记者莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig）倾向于认为所有这些人都不可能是错的。
And the one person-- the one person-- who still thinks that maybe Vince Gilmer might not be faking is Benjamin Gilmer.
唯一一个——唯一一个——仍然认为文斯·吉尔默可能没有装假的人就是本杰明·吉尔默。
He's still unconvinced.
他还是不相信。
He's begun researching SSRI withdrawal, and found dozens and dozens of reports of people who've become violent or homicidal while either on or off their medication.
他开始研究 SSRI 戒断问题，并发现了数十起关于人们在服药或停药期间变得暴力或杀人的报告。
He's also gathered more reports of personality changes following a traumatic brain injury.
他还收集了更多关于脑外伤后性格变化的报告。
And he's dug up Vince's brain scan from back when he had the truck accident, and got over it with not one, but two radiologists.
当文斯发生卡车事故时，他从后面挖出了他的脑部扫描，并与不是一个而是两个放射科医生一起解决了这个问题。
When Benjamin calls me to talk about what he's found, he sounds to me like he's grasping for a diagnosis.
当本杰明打电话给我谈论他的发现时，他对我来说听起来像是在寻求诊断。
Benjamin wrote to Vince in prison.
本杰明写信给狱中的文斯。
And several weeks later, he got a letter back.
几周后，他收到了回信。
Vince included many pages of information about SSRI withdrawal, and had written messages on the back in a mad man's scrawl, barely comprehensible.
文斯写了很多页有关 SSRI 撤药的信息，并在背面用疯子潦草的字迹写下了信息，几乎无法理解。
Six years into this, I mean, the guy, he's exhibiting the same kind of behavior.
六年过去了，我的意思是，这个家伙，他表现出了同样的行为。
Right.
正确的。
You'd figure if he was-- if he were faking, he'd let it go.
你会想，如果他是——如果他是假装的，他就会放手。
Like, what's the point now?
比如说，现在有什么意义？
Yeah.
是的。
Just believing he's just a pathologic, sociopathic killer who did it in cold blood and that it was-- that he's just that, that I do not believe anymore.
只是相信他只是一个病态的、反社会的杀手，冷血地杀人，而且他就是这样，我不再相信了。
I really-- he was a mess.
我真的——他真是一团糟。
Yeah.
是的。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't think you're going to get to the bottom of this, Benjamin.
我不认为你会查清这件事的真相，本杰明。
I don't think it's ever going to be clear.
我认为这永远不会清楚。
I mean, I think you can end up telling yourself something about it, but I don't know that it's going to be true.
我的意思是，我认为你最终可以告诉自己一些关于它的事情，但我不知道这会是真的。
I mean, I'm not trying to make him a martyr or anything.
我的意思是，我并不是想让他成为烈士或其他什么。
I know.
我知道。
I know.
我知道。
I'm just saying.
我只是说说而已。
But you want to know the truth about it, though.
但你想知道真相。
Yeah.
是的。
Here we are.
我们到了。
Sarah Koenig It seemed the only way to judge Vince for ourselves was to see him for ourselves.
莎拉·柯尼格 看来，我们自己评判文斯的唯一方法就是亲眼见到他。
So in January, Benjamin and I drove to Wallens Ridge state prison to meet Vince.
因此，在一月份，本杰明和我开车前往沃伦斯里奇州立监狱去见文斯。
How are you feeling?
你感觉怎么样？
Benjamin Gilmer I'm feeling nervous, to be honest.
本杰明·吉尔默 老实说，我感到紧张。
Never done this before.
以前从未这样做过。
Benjamin was so nervous, he had to sit down when we were signing in at the front desk.
本杰明非常紧张，当我们在前台签到时，他不得不坐下。
He told me later he was imagining being face to face with a guy capable of tearing someone apart.
他后来告诉我，他想象着与一个能够撕裂某人的人面对面。
That's the way one of the jail guards back in North Carolina had described Vince to Benjamin.
这就是北卡罗来纳州的一名狱警向本杰明描述文斯的方式。
Now, at Wallens Ridge, they led us to the visiting room.
现在，在瓦伦斯岭，他们带我们去了探视室。
Several other inmates were already there.
其他几个囚犯已经在那里了。
And after a while, they brought in an old man.
过了一会儿，他们带来了一位老人。
At least, he looked like an old man, bent and shuffling.
至少，他看起来像个老人，弯着腰，拖着脚步。
And, of course, that was Vince.
当然，那是文斯。
He's only 50, but he looks awful.
他才50岁，但看上去很糟糕。
We spent four hours talking to him, asking him every question we had and continually fetching him food from the vending machines.
我们花了四个小时与他交谈，询问他我们遇到的每一个问题，并不断地从自动售货机给他取食物。
Two pizza burgers with pepperoni, one cheddar cheese burger, two Cokes, and six of those pink Hostess snowballs, coated with coconut shavings.
两个意大利辣香肠披萨汉堡、一个切达干酪汉堡、两杯可乐，以及六个涂有椰子屑的粉色 Hostess 雪球。
Ever since Vince went to jail in 2004, he has been agitating.
自从2004年文斯入狱以来，他一直在煽动。
And all this time, he has never let up.
而这段时间，他也从未松懈过。
It's dizzying, the amount of paperwork he's filed, protesting what he says is inhumane treatment.
他提交的文件数量之多令人眼花缭乱，抗议他所说的不人道待遇。
Inmate request forms and civil lawsuits and motions for emergency hearings.
囚犯申请表以及民事诉讼和紧急听证会动议。
Vince insists he has SSRI Withdrawal Syndrome, an extreme reaction to changes in his SSRI meds that can cause intolerable mood changes.
文斯坚称自己患有 SSRI 戒断综合症，这是对 SSRI 药物变化的极端反应，可能导致难以忍受的情绪变化。
If only they'd give him 60 or 80 or 100 milligrams of Celexa, uncrushed, he'd be better.
如果他们能给他 60 或 80 或 100 毫克未经粉碎的 Celexa，他就会好起来。
A fellow inmate who tried to help Vince wrote to me.
一位试图帮助文斯的狱友写信给我。
At Wallens Ridge, they call Vince Doc.
在沃伦斯岭，他们打电话给文斯·多克。
The inmate wrote, quote, "when the prison doctors would not order the treatment Doc wanted based on his self-diagnosis, he would become hostile, threatening, throw tantrums, refused to comply with orders, and just yelled that all of this was caused by his serotonin-deprived brain.
这名犯人写道，“当监狱医生不根据医生的自我诊断为他下令治疗时，他就会变得充满敌意、威胁、发脾气、拒绝遵守命令，并大喊这一切都是由他缺乏血清素的大脑造成的。
Needless to say, none of that plays well in prison.
不用说，这些在监狱里都效果不佳。
Sadly, Doc has been his own worst enemy." Unquote.
可悲的是，博士最大的敌人就是他自己。”取消引用。
We weren't allowed to record or take written notes when we met with Vince, but the following day, we were allowed to record a phone call.
当我们与文斯见面时，我们不被允许录音或做书面笔记，但第二天，我们被允许对电话进行录音。
The sound quality is not good.
音质不好。
Are you there?
你在吗？
Sarah Koenig Yeah.
莎拉·柯尼格 是的。
Is that Vince?
那是文斯吗？
Yes.
是的。
I can hear you.
我能听到你的声音。
Sarah Koenig Oh, great.
莎拉·柯尼格 哦，太棒了。
Good morning.
早上好。
Vince Gilmer Good morning.
文斯·吉尔默早上好。
Vince is hard to take in, because he presents so many contradictory characteristics all at once.
文斯很难被接受，因为他同时呈现出如此多的矛盾特征。
You can see he was once a handsome guy.
可见他曾经也是一个大帅哥。
And at times, his speech and thoughts and affect seem completely normal.
有时，他的言语、思想和情感似乎完全正常。
He looks you straight in the eyes.
他直视着你的眼睛。
And some of his answers sound utterly reasonable, too.
他的一些答案听起来也完全合理。
For instance, no, he did not simply dump his wife and walk away from a happy marriage.
例如，不，他并不是简单地抛弃了妻子并放弃了幸福的婚姻。
They were having troubles, like many couples do.
就像许多夫妻一样，他们也遇到了麻烦。
And they couldn't work out those troubles, so they split up, he said.
他说，他们无法解决这些问题，所以他们分手了。
End of story.
故事结束。
We later confirmed this with Karen.
我们后来向凯伦证实了这一点。
But then, in a flash, he'll lose his focus, lose simple words, become weepy.
但很快，他就会失去注意力，失去简单的言语，变得哭泣。
His face will grimace strangely, in a way that's unconnected to what he's saying.
他的脸会做出奇怪的鬼脸，这种表情与他所说的无关。
Or he's putting his index finger on his chin or forehead and looking at the ceiling like a child.
或者他把食指放在下巴或额头上，像个孩子一样看着天花板。
His hands are working constantly, especially his left hand, rubbing his thumb endlessly over his closed fingers.
他的手不停地工作，尤其是左手，拇指不停地在紧闭的手指上摩擦。
You can see the skin is red and raw from it.
你可以看到皮肤是红色的，而且是生的。
He's holding his arms close to his chest.
他将双臂靠近胸前。
He's talking and talking.
他说啊说啊。
And then he'll stop and say, what was the question?
然后他会停下来问，问题是什么？
Vince is missing many teeth.
文斯失去了很多牙齿。
He says that's because his serotonin-deprived brain makes him aggressive, and so he lashes out at other inmates and then gets beaten down by prison guards.
他说，这是因为他的大脑缺乏血清素，使他具有攻击性，因此他会攻击其他囚犯，然后被狱警殴打。
I ran this by a Virginia DOC official, who said the DOC does not respond publicly to inmate allegations.
我是由弗吉尼亚州商务部的一位官员报道的，他说商务部不会公开回应囚犯的指控。
Benjamin spent a lot of the conversation trying to suss out Vince's medical history.
本杰明花了很多时间试图弄清楚文斯的病史。
So what is the difference between a serotonin-deprived brain and depression?
那么，大脑缺乏血清素和抑郁症有什么区别呢？
I'm just trying to figure out.
我只是想弄清楚。
Um, [INAUDIBLE] OK.
嗯，[听不清] 好的。
Instead of being-- OK.
而不是——好吧。
Unbelievable levels of anxiety, um, uh.
令人难以置信的焦虑程度，嗯，呃。
Like I said, ungodly anxiety, electrical jellyfish stings.
就像我说的，不敬虔的焦虑，电水母蜇人。
It comes and goes.
它来了又走。
That was a little hard to hear.
这话有点难听。
He's saying, electric jellyfish stings.
他是说，电水母蜇人。
He says that's what it feels like in his brain, an electric shock.
他说这就是他大脑中的感觉，一种触电的感觉。
Um, what was your question?
嗯，你问的问题是什么？
Sarah Koenig Then he says there's the intermittent psychomotor agitation, meaning the uncontrolled movements in his arms and face that come and go.
莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig）然后他说有间歇性的精神运动性躁动，这意味着他的手臂和脸部的运动不受控制地来来去去。
He knows it looks fake, he says, but it's real.
他说，他知道它看起来很假，但它是真的。
And indeed, the symptoms he talks about are listed in the teeny tiny print on the back of the Lexapro insert.
事实上，他所说的症状列在 Lexapro 插入物背面的微小印刷中。
I asked him about what Detective Martin told us, about putting cameras in the jail rec yard, and how Vince seemed to act weird only when staff came around.
我问他马丁侦探告诉我们的事情，关于在监狱娱乐场安装摄像头的事情，以及文斯如何似乎只有在工作人员过来时才会表现得很奇怪。
That's exactly.
正是如此。
That's intermittent psychomotor agitation, exactly.
确切地说，这就是间歇性精神运动性躁动。
And same thing happens when I try to talk to medical people, same thing, same type of thing.
当我尝试与医务人员交谈时，也会发生同样的事情，同样的事情，同样类型的事情。
I see.
我懂了。
Vince Gilmer Or if something, like, stresses me out.
文斯·吉尔默 或者如果有什么事情让我感到压力。
It gets worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse.
情况变得更糟、更糟、更糟、更糟、更糟、更糟、更糟、更糟。
So basically, what Detective Martin saw as evidence of you faking it, you're saying it's evidence of a real syndrome.
所以基本上，马丁侦探认为你伪造的证据，你说这是真正综合症的证据。
Absolutely.
绝对地。
And that's a documented part.
这是有记录的部分。
No one has believed you.
没有人相信你。
They don't believe your symptoms are real.
他们不相信您的症状是真实的。
Why is that?
这是为什么？
Vince told us he did not plan to kill his father.
文斯告诉我们，他并不打算杀死他的父亲。
He's adamant about that.
他对此很坚定。
He says he did not want his father dead.
他说他不想让父亲死。
He'd taken care of his father on many occasions, sometimes for long stretches.
他曾多次照顾父亲，有时甚至是很长时间。
The plane ticket to Alaska that Terry told us about?
特里告诉我们的去阿拉斯加的机票？
Vince couldn't remember it.
文斯不记得了。
And it never came up as evidence in court.
它从未作为证据出现在法庭上。
As for the debt Vince owed to Broughton Hospital, he says he just wasn't that worried about it.
至于文斯欠布劳顿医院的债务，他说他并不那么担心。
Plus, it's not like the debt would have gone away if his father died.
另外，即使他父亲去世，债务也不会消失。
But he couldn't explain why he'd let it accrue like that, why he never paid for his father's care like he was supposed to.
但他无法解释为什么他会让它这样累积，为什么他从来没有像他应该的那样支付父亲的护理费用。
Also, he couldn't really explain his behavior right after the killing.
而且，他无法真正解释他在杀人后的行为。
I just can't bring-- come up with a good answer for it.
我只是无法给出一个好的答案。
Sorry.
对不起。
Because I am curious about that week.
因为我对那一周很好奇。
Because it seems like you were very-- you were very controlled, in fact, in that week.
因为事实上，那一周你看起来非常——事实上，你非常受控制。
By that time, I was back on that medicine for a short term.
到那时，我又短期恢复服用该药。
So are you saying that as soon as you took the Lexapro again, your mind calmed down and you were able to kind of go about your life in a more or less normal way?
那么您是说，一旦您再次服用 Lexapro，您的思绪就会平静下来，并且您能够以或多或少正常的方式继续您的生活？
Absolutely.
绝对地。
Yes.
是的。
Sarah Koenig So why, at that point, if you're on it, why not just immediately go to the police and say, like, I've done this horrible thing.
莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig）：所以，如果你在的话，为什么不立即去找警察并说，比如，我做了这件可怕的事情。
And I was out of my mind and I need to-- like, we have to deal with it, you know?
我疯了，我需要——就像，我们必须处理它，你知道吗？
Why run?
为什么要跑？
Why lie?
为什么说谎？
Why try to cover it up then?
那为什么要试图掩盖它呢？
I just didn't.
我只是没有。
I guess that's what I-- I guess I what I should've done.
我想这就是我应该做的。
Prison staff at Wallens Ridge all told us the same thing, Vince is really like this.
瓦伦斯岭的监狱工作人员都告诉我们同样的事情，文斯真的就是这样。
He wasn't putting it on for us.
他不是为我们穿上的。
Also, he's gotten a lot worse in the last few years and months.
而且，在过去的几年和几个月里，他的情况变得更糟了。
When we saw him in prison, he spent the last 10 or 15 minutes of our meeting tearfully asking us-- especially Benjamin-- for help.
当我们在监狱里见到他时，他在会议的最后 10 或 15 分钟里泪流满面地向我们——尤其是本杰明——寻求帮助。
He'd helped so many people as a doctor, he said.
他说，作为一名医生，他帮助了很多人。
Didn't he deserve the same now?
难道他现在不应该得到同样的待遇吗？
I'm begging you, he said.
我求你了，他说。
Back in the car, a little shaky after the interview, Benjamin had come to a decision.
采访结束后，本杰明回到车上，有点摇摇欲坠，但他做出了决定。
From our observations today, he is mentally ill.
从我们今天的观察来看，他患有精神疾病。
And I was trying to be discerning.
我试图变得有洞察力。
I was trying to be somewhat skeptical.
我试图保持某种怀疑的态度。
But I just don't think anyone could pull off what he pulled off today.
但我认为没有人能实现他今天所取得的成就。
Yeah.
是的。
Sarah Koenig So we no longer think it was premeditated?
莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig）：所以我们不再认为这是有预谋的？
I don't think so.
我不这么认为。
Sarah Koenig OK, so we're saying we believe his story, that he snapped in the moment?
莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig）：好的，所以我们是说我们相信他的故事，相信他当时突然爆发的故事？
That's what feels right to me.
这就是我的感觉。
Do you feel that way, too?
你也有这样的感觉吗？
Because before, you were premeditation all the way.
因为之前，你一直都是有预谋的。
I know.
我知道。
I guess I do feel like that.
我想我确实有这样的感觉。
But if that's true, then he was wrongly convicted.
但如果这是真的，那么他就被错误定罪了。
Yep, that's right.
是的，没错。
Sarah Koenig All over again, Benjamin turned over the possible explanations for Vince's illness.
莎拉·科尼格 本杰明再次提出了文斯患病的可能解释。
I mean, I've reviewed a bunch of cases with very, I mean, uncanny similarities to this one, all related to SSRIs.
我的意思是，我已经审查了一堆与此案例非常相似的案例，这些案例都与 SSRI 相关。
He does have-- like, there's evidence to suggest that what he's saying could possibly really be true, you know?
他确实有——比如，有证据表明他所说的可能真的是真的，你知道吗？
And so, what do you do with that information?
那么，您如何处理这些信息呢？
I don't know.
我不知道。
I mean, I-- so I've wondered, obviously, what is my purpose for this?
我的意思是，我——所以我显然想知道，我这样做的目的是什么？
Is it my duty to do something?
做某事是我的职责吗？
He directly asked you not a half hour ago.
不到半小时前他就直接问你了。
Help me.
帮我。
You can help me, help me.
你可以帮助我，帮助我。
So now I'm left with what to do with this.
所以现在我只剩下该怎么办了。
I don't know what I'm going to do with this.
我不知道我要用这个做什么。
Three weeks later, Benjamin was back at Wallens Ridge.
三周后，本杰明回到了瓦伦斯岭。
This time, he brought along his friend Steve Buie, a psychiatrist.
这次，他带来了他的朋友、精神科医生史蒂夫·布伊(Steve Buie)。
They talked to Vince for an hour.
他们和文斯聊了一个小时。
But when they were done, Dr. Buie wasn't sold on Benjamin's favorite hypothesis.
但当他们完成后，布伊博士并没有相信本杰明最喜欢的假设。
Dr. Buie has seen a lot of people go through SSRI withdrawal, he said.
Buie 博士说，他见过很多人经历过 SSRI 戒断的过程。
But whatever was going on with Vince, it didn't seem like that.
但无论文斯发生了什么事，看起来都不是那样的。
And ditto traumatic brain injury.
脑外伤也是如此。
Those don't usually cause the kind of deterioration Vince was experiencing.
这些通常不会导致文斯所经历的那种恶化。
Then, as they were leaving the visitor's room, walking between the series of locked metal doors and barbed wire fencing, Dr. Buie stopped in his tracks.
然后，当他们离开访客房间，在一系列上锁的金属门和铁丝网之间行走时，布伊博士停了下来。
I turned to Benjamin and just raised the question.
我转向本杰明并提出了这个问题。
I said, could this be Huntington's?
我说，这可能是亨廷顿舞蹈症吗？
And he sort of looked at me with a surprised expression and sort of nodded his head that yeah, it might be.
他用一种惊讶的表情看着我，然后点点头说是的，可能是这样。
Huntington's disease is a horrible condition, one of the worst, like a cruel trifecta of Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and Lou Gehrig's disease rolled into one.
亨廷顿舞蹈症是一种可怕的疾病，是最严重的疾病之一，就像阿尔茨海默病、帕金森病和卢伽雷氏病的残酷三重奏一样。
It causes severe emotional and physical symptoms.
它会导致严重的情绪和身体症状。
It's progressive, it's painful, and highly inheritable.
它是进步的，是痛苦的，而且是高度可遗传的。
If your parent has it, you've got a 50/50 chance of getting it.
如果你的父母有它，你就有 50/50 的机会得到它。
According to descriptions of Vince's father's mental and physical state, it's conceivable that's what Dalton Gilmer had.
根据文斯父亲的精神和身体状态的描述，可以想象道尔顿吉尔默就是这样。
Typically, it starts to affect a person between the ages of 35 and 45.
通常，它开始影响 35 岁至 45 岁之间的人。
Vince's behavior began to change when he was about 40.
文斯四十岁左右时，他的行为开始发生变化。
And it's fatal.
这是致命的。
Once you have symptoms, the brain and body dwindle away.
一旦出现症状，大脑和身体就会萎缩。
You usually die after about 20 years from a complication like pneumonia or choking.
您通常会在大约 20 年后死于肺炎或窒息等并发症。
Dr. Buie and Benjamin went down a checklist of symptoms.
布伊医生和本杰明列出了一份症状清单。
Behavioral disturbances.
行为障碍。
Steve Buie Yeah, he murdered his father.
史蒂夫·布伊 是的，他谋杀了他的父亲。
Hallucinations.
幻觉。
Steve Buie He's having-- he's hearing voices in his head.
Steve Buie：他听到脑子里有声音。
Irritability?
易怒？
Steve Buie He's continuing to attack other inmates, in spite of the consequences of being beat up afterwards.
史蒂夫·布伊（Steve Buie） 他继续攻击其他囚犯，尽管事后遭到殴打。
Moodiness.
喜怒无常。
Sarah Koenig Moodiness, check.
莎拉·科尼格 (Sarah Koenig) 喜怒无常，检查一下。
Restlessness or fidgeting, check.
坐立不安或坐立不安，检查一下。
Paranoia, psychosis, abnormal and unusual movements, including facial movements, grimacing, quick sudden jerking movements, unsteady gait, disorientation or confusion, loss of judgment, loss of memory, personality changes, speech changes, anxiety and stress.
偏执、精神病、异常和不寻常的运动，包括面部运动、做鬼脸、快速突然的抽搐、步态不稳、迷失方向或混乱、判断力丧失、记忆力丧失、性格改变、言语改变、焦虑和压力。
Check, check, check, check, check, all the way down the list.
检查、检查、检查、检查、检查，一直检查到列表下方。
Of course, the best way to tell is a genetic test, but none of us is a lawyer.
当然，最好的辨别方法是基因测试，但我们都不是律师。
We're not related to Vince.
我们和文斯没有关系。
We have no standing with the Virginia Department of Corrections.
我们与弗吉尼亚惩教署没有任何关系。
So we weren't sure how to go about getting a test done.
所以我们不确定如何完成测试。
Then, three weeks later, on March 11, I found out from the DOC-- just by accident-- that Vince had been moved from Wallens Ridge to a psychiatric hospital within the prison system called Marion Correctional Treatment Center.
然后，三周后，即 3 月 11 日，我偶然从 DOC 得知文斯已从沃伦斯岭转移到监狱系统内的一家名为马里恩惩教中心的精神病医院。
A few calls later, I was speaking to a social worker there who eventually told me Vince had threatened suicide.
打了几个电话后，我与那里的一名社会工作者交谈，他最终告诉我文斯威胁要自杀。
They'd found a couple of razor blades in his room.
他们在他的房间里发现了几把剃须刀刀片。
This social worker asked me what Benjamin and I thought of Vince's condition.
这位社会工作者问我本杰明和我对文斯的状况有何看法。
I told her Benjamin actually had an idea, Huntington's.
我告诉她本杰明实际上有一个想法，亨廷顿。
Oh, she said.
哦，她说。
Interesting.
有趣的。
We can test for that.
我们可以对此进行测试。
The next day a psychiatrist at Marion met with Vince.
第二天，马里昂的一位精神病医生会见了文斯。
A psychiatrist called Benjamin.
一位名叫本杰明的精神科医生。
And within a week, they'd drawn blood for the Huntington's test, and sent it off to a lab in Utah.
一周之内，他们抽血进行亨廷顿舞蹈症测试，并将其送往犹他州的一个实验室。
It is the 28th of March.
今天是 3 月 28 日。
And it's 7:30 in the morning.
现在是早上 7 点 30 分。
I just got to the clinic.
我刚到诊所。
And I opened the email.
我打开了电子邮件。
And the first line was, Vince Gilmer is positive for Huntington's.
第一行是，文斯·吉尔默亨廷顿舞蹈症呈阳性。
Allele number one sent 43 repeat CAGs, which means strongly positive.
1 号等位基因发送了 43 个重复 CAG，这意味着强阳性。
So we found it.
所以我们找到了。
We found an answer.
我们找到了答案。
I'm really excited and very sad at the same time.
我真的很兴奋，同时也很悲伤。
This is a terrifying diagnosis for Vince.
对于文斯来说，这是一个可怕的诊断。
I'm not sure what's worse, life in prison or dying prematurely and painfully from this disease.
我不知道哪一个更糟糕，是终身监禁还是因这种疾病而痛苦地过早死亡。
But we will see.
但我们会看到。
I cannot believe it.
我简直不敢相信。
Benjamin got this news from Vince's new psychiatrist, Dr. Colin Angliker.
本杰明从文斯的新精神病医生科林·安格利克博士那里得到了这个消息。
He's medical director and chief psychiatrist at the Marion Correctional Treatment Center.
他是马里恩惩教中心的医疗主任和首席精神科医生。
He's been a prison doctor for 25 years, which you think would make him a company man.
他当了 25 年监狱医生，你认为这会让他成为一名公司职员。
But he's just the opposite, meaning he is the perfect doctor for Vince.
但他恰恰相反，这意味着他是文斯的完美医生。
He's one of those guys who enjoys proving the system wrong.
他是那些喜欢证明系统错误的人之一。
Whenever I hear somebody is very much of a malingerer, I think, uh-uh.
每当我听到有人很装病时，我就会想，呃呃。
He ain't malingering.
他没有装病。
There's something else going on.
还有其他事情正在发生。
Benjamin and I went to meet Dr. Angliker in Virginia last week, and he described what happened when Vince got the news.
本杰明和我上周去弗吉尼亚州会见了安格利克博士，他描述了文斯得知消息后发生的事情。
I was kind of nervous, you know?
我有点紧张，你知道吗？
Because it's more or less like a death sentence that you're telling somebody.
因为这或多或少就像你告诉某人的死刑一样。
But much to my surprise and personal relief, he-- so far-- has taken it very well.
但令我惊讶和个人欣慰的是，到目前为止，他表现得很好。
Why do you think that is?
你认为这是为什么？
Colin Angliker Well, I think he had been trying to prove a point for some considerable time that there was something wrong with him.
科林·安格利克（Colin Angliker）：嗯，我认为他在相当长的一段时间里一直在试图证明他有问题。
And nobody was paying any attention.
没有人注意到。
They thought that, oh, it's all fake and he's putting it on.
他们认为，哦，这都是假的，是他装出来的。
And that wasn't the case, isn't the case.
事实并非如此，并非如此。
Dr. Angliker says that since he put Vince on medication, he's feeling much better.
安格利克医生说，自从他给文斯服药后，他感觉好多了。
He's walking better, talking better.
他走路更好了，说话也更好了。
He's less anxious.
他不那么焦虑了。
What medication, you ask?
请问用什么药？
80 milligrams of Celexa, uncrushed.
80 毫克 Celexa，未粉碎。
What Vince has been asking for all along.
文斯一直以来的要求。
Because it turns out Huntington's kills off brain cells, neurons which decrease production of neurotransmitters.
因为事实证明亨廷顿舞蹈症会杀死脑细胞和神经元，从而减少神经递质的产生。
So all this time, it's possible Vince did have a serotonin-deprived brain.
所以一直以来，文斯的大脑可能确实缺乏血清素。
It's possible he was right.
有可能他是对的。
All this makes you wonder, to be blunt, what the hell?
这一切让你想知道，坦白地说，到底是什么？
Benjamin asked Dr. Angliker as respectful as he could, why did this take so long?
本杰明尽可能尊重地问安格利克博士，为什么花了这么长时间？
To me, what's been so difficult to understand is that for nine years-- I mean, I'm a doctor.
对我来说，最难以理解的是，九年来——我的意思是，我是一名医生。
I'm not a psychiatrist.
我不是精神科医生。
But after two visits with him, it was clear that he had a neurologic illness.
但在两次拜访他之后，很明显他患有神经系统疾病。
There's obviously something going on.
显然有事情发生。
So it's very hard for me to appreciate that that could have been missed after numerous, numerous evaluations.
因此，我很难理解在经过无数次评估后可能会错过这一点。
Well, we're supposed to listen.
嗯，我们应该听听。
And I have found so often that people don't listen to what patients are saying.
我经常发现人们不听病人说的话。
They don't.
他们不这样做。
They have a preconceived idea as to what's going on, and that's it.
他们对正在发生的事情有一个先入为主的想法，仅此而已。
They are as inflexible sometimes as the system in which they find work.
有时，他们和他们工作的制度一样不灵活。
They have a stereotype of what an inmate is.
他们对囚犯有一种刻板印象。
And they won't budge beyond that.
除此之外他们不会让步。
Do you think that's what happened in Vince's case?
你认为文斯的案子就是这样吗？
I'm afraid so.
恐怕是这样。
It was really horrendous.
真是太可怕了。
It just blows my mind how things went for him.
他的事态发展让我大吃一惊。
And it's really sad.
这真的很难过。
From what Dr. Angliker can tell, Vince was having psychiatric symptoms from Huntington's at the time of the killing.
据安格利克医生所知，文斯在案发时患有亨廷顿氏舞蹈症的精神症状。
That's not to say Huntington's caused him to kill his father.
这并不是说亨廷顿舞蹈症导致他杀死了他的父亲。
It's not like Huntington's creates murderers.
亨廷顿舞蹈病不会制造杀人犯。
But Huntington's can cause erratic, agitated, and sometimes uncontrollable behavior.
但亨廷顿舞蹈症会导致不稳定、焦躁、有时甚至无法控制的行为。
So, it's fair to say that Vince was not himself when he strangled his father.
所以，可以公平地说，文斯勒死父亲时并不是他自己。
And he never should have represented himself in court.
他根本不应该在法庭上为自己辩护。
I mean, to me, it was a travesty.
我的意思是，对我来说，这是一场嘲讽。
He should never be in a prison.
他永远不应该在监狱里。
But that's me.
但这就是我。
Of course, Dr. Angliker isn't a lawyer.
当然，Angliker 博士不是律师。
So we asked one, Richard Bonnie, a professor at the University of Virginia School of Law and director of the Institute of Law, Psychiatry, and Public Policy.
因此，我们采访了弗吉尼亚大学法学院教授兼法律、精神病学和公共政策研究所所长理查德·邦尼（Richard Bonnie）。
He says Vince's best shot might be for a lawyer to argue, probably in federal court, that Vince wasn't competent to represent himself at his trial, that he shouldn't have been allowed to do so.
他说文斯最好的机会可能是让律师辩称，可能是在联邦法院，文斯没有能力在审判中代表自己，他不应该被允许这样做。
But really, Vince might be better off bypassing the courts and just trying to get what they call compassionate release.
但实际上，文斯最好绕过法庭，试图获得他们所谓的同情释放。
That is, if someone can pull the right strings in government.
也就是说，如果有人能够在政府中发挥正确的作用。
We hadn't spoken to Vince since January.
自一月份以来我们就没有和文斯说过话。
He'd been in solitary on suicide watch at the Marion Hospital until last week.
直到上周，他一直在马里恩医院接受自杀单独观察。
Finally, on Monday, we were able to arrange a phone call, our first contact with him since the diagnosis.
最后，在周一，我们安排了一次电话，这是自确诊以来我们第一次与他联系。
It was shocking.
太令人震惊了。
Hello, Benjamin.
你好，本杰明。
Benjamin Gilmer How are you?
本杰明·吉尔默 你好吗？
I am, wow, ridiculously doing so much better, it's not even funny.
我，哇，可笑的是，我做得好多了，这一点都不好笑。
You sound so different.
你听起来很不一样。
Vince Gilmer I really and truly-- I mean, right now I'm so close to being back to normal.
文斯·吉尔默（Vince Gilmer）我真的——我的意思是，现在我已经非常接近恢复正常了。
It's just--
这只是——
So glad to hear that.
很高兴听到这个消息。
Vince Gilmer It's just-- my brain's getting better.
文斯·吉尔默：只是——我的大脑变得更好了。
Vince was laughing.
文斯在笑。
When we met him back at the prison three months earlier, that Vince?
三个月前我们在监狱见到他时，那个文斯？
It didn't even occur to me that he could laugh.
我什至没有想到他会笑。
[LAUGHING] Yes, after all these years of hell and, yeah, having the DNA diagnosis that can't be argued with.
[笑] 是的，经历了这么多年的地狱般的生活，是的，有了无可争议的 DNA 诊断。
And the fact that this treatment is working so well, it's just-- it's a miracle all the way around.
事实上，这种治疗效果非常好，这简直就是一个奇迹。
And it's going to work out for the best.
一切都会有最好的结果。
For me, I'm not terrified about it.
对我来说，我并不害怕它。
To me, it was so relieved.
对我来说，真是如释重负。
After about a half hour of hearing how happy he was, how hopeful, it dawned on us.
大约半小时后，听到他多么高兴、多么充满希望，我们才恍然大悟。
Vince doesn't know anything about Huntington's.
文斯对亨廷顿舞蹈症一无所知。
We weren't prepared for that, since Vince is a doctor.
我们没有为此做好准备，因为文斯是一名医生。
But he doesn't know what's going to happen to him, and maybe to his sister and to her two kids, and to her three grandkids.
但他不知道他身上会发生什么，也许他的妹妹和她的两个孩子，以及她的三个孙子孙女会发生什么。
Because they're all at risk for Huntington's now.
因为他们现在都有患亨廷顿氏舞蹈症的风险。
So Benjamin did the hardest thing in the world.
所以本杰明做了世界上最困难的事情。
He told him.
他告诉他。
Vince's response was pragmatic.
文斯的回应很务实。
I mean, right now, there isn't-- what is the treatment now?
我的意思是，现在没有——现在的治疗方法是什么？
Just symptomatic treatment.
只是对症治疗。
There's no-- nothing at this point that can reverse the process, unfortunately.
不幸的是，目前没有任何东西可以逆转这一过程。
Right.
正确的。
Sarah Koenig They talked for an hour.
莎拉·柯尼格 他们聊了一个小时。
And Vince didn't seem defeated at all by this terrible news.
文斯似乎并没有被这个可怕的消息打败。
For now, he's just so glad to be getting the Celexa, surrounded by people who believe what he says to them.
现在，他很高兴能得到 Celexa，周围都是相信他所说的话的人。
By the end, Benjamin and Vince were just two doctors, talking about the Cane Creek clinic.
到最后，本杰明和文斯只是两位医生，谈论着凯恩溪诊所。
Benjamin told him how his patients and friends were taking the news.
本杰明告诉他他的病人和朋友们如何看待这个消息。
Vince remembered working there, hanging out with the staff.
文斯记得在那里工作，和工作人员一起出去玩。
How if they got paid in corn, they'd heat it in the microwave and dip it in butter.
如果他们用玉米作为报酬，他们会用微波炉加热并沾上黄油。
And how he missed working with the patients.
以及他是如何怀念与病人一起工作的。
It was such a-- what's the word for it-- a blessing, to be able to actually be there and share those people's lives.
能够真正在那里并分享这些人的生活，真是一种——用什么词来形容——一种祝福。
I'm sorry if you feel like the medical community turned their back on you.
如果您觉得医学界背弃了您，我很抱歉。
You didn't turn your backs on me.
你并没有背弃我。
You did not.
你没有。
You came all the way across the mountains and came to see me in the prison.
你千里迢迢翻山越岭来到监狱里看我。
Because all those patients, patients that you took care of, that you take care of, they kept telling you, no. That's not him.
因为所有那些病人，你照顾过的病人，他们一直告诉你，不。那不是他。
And you're right.
你是对的。
That's not who I am.
我不是这样的人。
And I'm becoming who I am again.
我正在再次成为我自己。
And, um, thank you.
还有，嗯，谢谢你。
Benjamin started out as Vince's freaked out replacement, but over the course of seven months, he'd become Vince's detective.
本杰明一开始是文斯的替代者，但七个月后，他成为了文斯的侦探。
And then, his physician, the physician Vince never had.
然后是他的医生，文斯从未有过的医生。
Now, Benjamin wants to become his lawyer.
现在，本杰明想成为他的律师。
He wants to get Vince out.
他想把文斯救出来。
Sarah Koenig is one of the producers of our show.
莎拉·科尼格是我们节目的制片人之一。
Our program was produced today by Miki Meek and myself with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Sarah Koenig, Jonathan Menjivar, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Miki Meek 和我本人以及 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Sarah Koenig、Jonathan Menjivar、Brian Reed、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Our senior producer for today's show is Julie Snyder.
我们今天节目的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Production help today from Anna Martin.
安娜·马丁今天为制作提供帮助。
Mixing by Stowe Nelson and our Technical director, Matt Tierney.
由 Stowe Nelson 和我们的技术总监 Matt Tierney 进行混音。
Music help for today's show from Damien Graef, from Rob Geddes.
今天节目的音乐由达米安·格雷夫 (Damien Graef) 和罗布·格迪斯 (Rob Geddes) 提供。
Special thanks today to Jonathan Milner, Larry Traylor at the Virginia Department of Corrections, Rebecca Young at the Wallens Ridge State Prison, Wayne Austin, Gloria Hitt, Fred Taubman at the Huntington's Disease Society of America, Deirdre Smith-Gilmer, Leona McKinney, Jay Leutze, Michelle Harris, Erin Brethauer, Jamie Nicholson, Johnny Irion, Sarah Lee Guthrie, Lou Teti, Frances Walker, Bulldog Studios in Sag Harbor, and all the staff at MAHEC Cane Creek.
今天特别感谢弗吉尼亚惩戒部的 Jonathan Milner、Larry Traylor、Wallens Ridge 州立监狱的 Rebecca Young、Wayne Austin、Gloria Hitt、美国亨廷顿病协会的 Fred Taubman、Deirdre Smith-Gilmer、Leona McKinney、Jay Leutze、Michelle Harris、Erin Brethauer、Jamie Nicholson、Johnny Irion、Sarah Lee Guthrie、Lou Teti、Frances Walker、位于萨格港的 Bulldog Studios 以及 MAHEC Cane Creek 的所有员工。
Our website, ThisAmericanLife.org.
我们的网站 ThisAmericanLife.org。
This American Life is distributed by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
《美国生活》由公共广播电台 PRX 发行。
Thanks, as always, to our program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia.
一如既往地感谢我们项目的联合创始人 Torey Malatia 先生。
You know, I just-- by coincidence-- ran into the guy who took over when Torey stopped running his Tupperware club.
你知道，我只是——巧合——遇到了托雷停止经营他的特百惠俱乐部后接任的人。
Yeah, I'm following the footsteps of an ax murderer.
是的，我正在追随斧头杀人犯的脚步。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories on This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多关于《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。