480: Animal Sacrifice - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #480 | March 21, 2014 480: Animal Sacrifice Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 480 集 | 2014 年 3 月 21 日 480：动物牺牲 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Noah, Abraham, King Solomon-- they all sacrificed animals, right?
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 诺亚、亚伯拉罕、所罗门王——他们都祭祀动物，对吗？
That's just the way they did it in the Old Testament.
这正是他们在旧约中所做的。
That's how you worshipped God.
这就是你敬拜神的方式。
And the Old Testament is pretty unambiguous that this is God's very favorite way for people to worship.
旧约圣经非常明确地表明，这是神最喜欢的人们敬拜的方式。
Exodus says that we're supposed to continue doing this "for generations to come."
出埃及记说，我们应该“为子孙后代”继续这样做。
Deuteronomy warns us against worshipping in other ways, quote, "detestable ways that God hates.
申命记警告我们不要以其他方式敬拜，引用“上帝所憎恶的可憎的方式。
See that you do all I command you.
确保你执行我命令你的一切。
Do not add to it or take away from it."
不要添加或删除它。”
So as a kid going to Hebrew school in suburban Baltimore, I never understood why we weren't doing this for God, how we got off the hook from animal sacrifice, the thing that he specifically said was the very best way to show our feelings for him.
因此，当我还是个在巴尔的摩郊区上希伯来语学校的孩子时，我从来不明白为什么我们不为上帝做这件事，我们如何摆脱动物祭祀的束缚，他特别说的是表达我们对他的感情的最好方式。
And it wasn't until this week that I finally learned the reason that we were off the hook.
直到本周我才终于知道我们摆脱困境的原因。
And the reason turns out to be astonishingly simple.
事实证明，原因简单得惊人。
Here's a scholar from Boston University named Jonathan Klawans, who is deeply over-qualified to answer this question.
波士顿大学的一位学者乔纳森·克拉万斯（Jonathan Klawans）非常有资格回答这个问题。
The book of Deuteronomy actually also makes very clear that the only legitimate place for sacrifice is in the place where the Lord God will choose.
申命记其实也说得很清楚，唯一合法的献祭地点就是主神所选择的地方。
And the place that God chose was the temple in Jerusalem.
神选择的地方就是耶路撒冷的圣殿。
When that was destroyed back in the year 70, it became basically illegal for Jews to sacrifice animals anywhere.
当它在 70 年被摧毁时，犹太人在任何地方宰杀动物基本上都是违法的。
Anyway, Jonathan Klawans says that there is a real bias against sacrifice today that began with people centuries ago.
不管怎样，乔纳森·克拉万斯说，今天人们对牺牲存在着真正的偏见，这种偏见始于几个世纪前。
None of these people were vegetarians.
这些人都不是素食主义者。
These weren't animal rights motivations.
这些不是动物权利动机。
This was a notion that somehow prayer is better than sacrifice because it's more meaningful.
这是一种认为祈祷比牺牲更好的观念，因为它更有意义。
It's more spiritual.
更有灵性。
In a way, I view sacrificers as a historical underdog.
在某种程度上，我认为牺牲者是历史上的失败者。
In our conversation, by the way, he was careful to point out that he is not an advocate for animal sacrifice.
顺便说一句，在我们的谈话中，他小心翼翼地指出，他并不提倡动物献祭。
Hold those emails.
保留这些电子邮件。
But he wrote a book that covers this material called Purity, Sacrifice, and the Temple.
但他写了一本涵盖这些材料的书，名为《纯洁、牺牲和圣殿》。
And he thinks that modern people have not bothered to think through what it would feel like to bring an animal to temple to kill it, to burn parts of it-- or all of it-- as a gift that you were personally giving to the creator of everything.
他认为，现代人并没有费心去思考将动物带到寺庙杀死它，烧掉它的一部分——或者全部——作为你亲自送给万物创造者的礼物，会是什么感觉。
It's stuff.
这是东西。
One is giving something.
一个人正在给予一些东西。
One of the points that's often emphasized, even in the biblical tradition-- and also in later rabbinic tradition-- about sacrifice is that a proper sacrifice is something that one owns.
即使在圣经传统以及后来的拉比传统中，关于牺牲经常强调的一点是，适当的牺牲是一个人拥有的东西。
You can't go steal an animal and sacrifice it to God.
你不能去偷动物并将其献给上帝。
And we also have to remember even if we think of animals as property, ancients-- one has to imagine the domesticated life of people, shepherds, living with their animals, who know their animals.
我们还必须记住，即使我们将动物视为财产，古人也必须想象人们、牧羊人的驯养生活，他们与他们的动物一起生活，他们了解他们的动物。
A proper sacrifice has to be unblemished.
正确的祭物必须是毫无瑕疵的。
To have an unblemished goat, one has to really care for that goat, from the time that the goat is born, to ensure that that goat will not become blemished in some way.
为了拥有一只无瑕疵的山羊，人们必须从山羊出生的那一刻起就真正照顾那只山羊，以确保那只山羊不会在某些方面有瑕疵。
So you have a relationship with that goat.
所以你和那只山羊有关系。
When you inspect it for blemishes-- which is Bible speak for any kind of nick, or bruise, or anything-- the goat looks you in the eye.
当你检查它是否有瑕疵时——圣经所说的任何一种划痕、瘀伤或任何东西——山羊都会看着你的眼睛。
And when you give this animal that you personally know to God, God isn't some abstract being.
当你把你个人认识的这种动物交给上帝时，上帝就不再是某种抽象的存在。
He is someone, someone who takes delight when you bring something to him, who you have this very literal interaction with.
当你给他带来一些东西时，他会很高兴，你会与他进行这种非常真实的互动。
The Bible talks about the smell of the smoke reaching and summoning God.
圣经谈到烟雾的气味到达并召唤上帝。
So yes, there's something really powerful there.
所以是的，那里有一些非常强大的东西。
There's a ancient writer who writes in the Roman defense of sacrifices.
有一位古代作家写下了罗马对祭祀的辩护。
And he says, worship without sacrifice is just words.
他说，没有牺牲的敬拜只是说说而已。
I love that phrase, because it totally turns us on our head.
我喜欢这句话，因为它完全颠覆了我们的观念。
We moderns assume that prayer is better than sacrifice.
我们现代人认为祈祷比牺牲更好。
We're so programmed to this.
我们对此已如此编程。
We think that words are better than deeds.
我们认为言语胜于行动。
Or we think that thoughts are better than actions.
或者我们认为思想比行动更好。
But talk is cheap.
但空谈是廉价的。
Of course, what the animal gets out of this transaction-- the Bible doesn't say a lot about that.
当然，动物从这次交易中得到什么——圣经对此并没有说太多。
But understanding sacrifices, weighing the sacrifice that an animal makes for us, that raises some very basic questions.
但是理解牺牲，权衡动物为我们做出的牺牲，这就提出了一些非常基本的问题。
What is sacrifice?
什么是牺牲？
Ira Glass Well, today on our program, animals and what they sacrifice for us.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 好吧，今天我们的节目是关于动物以及它们为我们做出的牺牲。
We have a story from Susan Orlean about household pets that are asked to get off the couch and do much more than my dog or yours ever does.
苏珊·奥尔良（Susan Orlean）讲了一个关于家庭宠物的故事，这些宠物被要求离开沙发，做比我的狗或你的狗更多的事情。
And how I learned that everybody who I work with here at This American Life-- they have for years been very, very concerned with one animal.
我是如何了解到在《This American Life》中与我一起工作的每个人多年来一直非常非常关心一种动物。
I really had no idea at all.
我真的一点也不知道。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Semper Fido.
第一幕，永远忠诚。
So our show today is about animal sacrifice.
所以我们今天的节目是关于动物祭祀的。
And of course, there are times when we ask animals to make the ultimate sacrifice.
当然，有时我们会要求动物做出最终的牺牲。
And in this act, I am not talking about the cows and chickens who die for burgers and fast food.
在这一幕中，我并不是在谈论那些因汉堡和快餐而死的牛和鸡。
I am talking about pets-- dogs, specifically.
我说的是宠物——特别是狗。
Susan Orlean tells the story.
苏珊·奥尔良讲述了这个故事。
Tommy wasn't a bad dog.
汤米不是一只坏狗。
He wasn't a mean dog, but he kept getting into trouble.
他不是一条卑鄙的狗，但他总是惹麻烦。
Tommy was a German shepherd who belonged to the Snyder family in Allentown, Pennsylvania.
汤米是一只德国牧羊犬，属于宾夕法尼亚州阿伦敦的斯奈德家族。
Tommy's trouble was impulse control.
汤米的麻烦在于控制冲动。
He refused to stay in the yard.
他拒绝留在院子里。
He chased ducks in the city park.
他在城市公园里追鸭子。
And on at least one occasion, the authorities had to round him up.
至少有一次，当局不得不围捕他。
Gina Snyder was in high school at the time.
吉娜·斯奈德当时正在上高中。
The problem with Tommy was that I thought he woke up, and he said, oh, for the open road.
汤米的问题是我以为他醒了，他说，哦，为了开阔的道路。
He was ready to take off.
他准备起飞了。
Run anywhere, that was his nature.
到处跑，这是他的本性。
Even though he was fastened to the doghouse, if he wanted to go, he would go.
虽然他被关在狗窝里，但他想走就走。
He would take the doghouse with him and run out the front yard and down the street--
他会带着狗屋跑出前院，沿着街道跑——
Dragging the house.
拖着房子。
Gina Snyder Dragging the house behind him.
吉娜·斯奈德 (Gina Snyder) 拖着房子身后。
This was in the early 1940s, before there were dog whisperers and dog therapists and beef-flavored Prozac.
那是在 20 世纪 40 年代初期，当时还没有狗语者、狗治疗师和牛肉味百忧解。
The Snyders really liked Tommy, but they just didn't know what to do with him.
斯奈德夫妇真的很喜欢汤米，但他们就是不知道该如何对待他。
But then World War II started and provided a solution.
但后来第二次世界大战爆发并提供了解决方案。
New recruits, a small detachment of the 125,000 dogs ordered by the quartermaster general for rigorous training in connection with MP sentry work the world over.
新招募的狗是由军需总长命令的 125,000 只狗组成的一个小分队，接受与世界各地宪兵哨兵工作相关的严格训练。
They're using purebred Dobermans, shepherds, Dalmatians, setters, collies, Airedales, even poodles and Great Danes.
他们使用纯种杜宾犬、牧羊犬、斑点狗、塞特犬、牧羊犬、大狗，甚至贵宾犬和大丹犬。
And each dog is carefully selected by experienced trainers for boldness and aggressiveness as watch dogs, fierce enough and tough enough to hold a man at bay until human help arrives.
每只狗都是由经验丰富的训练师精心挑选的，它们具有勇敢和攻击性，可以作为看门狗，足够凶猛和坚韧，可以将人拒之门外，直到人类的帮助到来。
There are lots of dogs in the US military these days.
现在美国军队里有很多狗。
That hasn't always been the case.
但情况并非总是如此。
The US didn't have a canine corps in World War I, even though every other country in the war did.
美国在第一次世界大战中没有军犬部队，尽管其他所有参战国家都有。
And at the time of the attack on Pearl Harbor, the only American military dogs were a few dozen huskies in Alaska.
珍珠港事件发生时，美国唯一的军犬是阿拉斯加的几十只哈士奇。
There were, though, a lot of people who believed we were missing out on an opportunity.
不过，有很多人认为我们错过了一个机会。
After all, dogs could do certain things, like sniffing for land mines, that human soldiers couldn't.
毕竟，狗可以做某些人类士兵做不到的事情，比如嗅探地雷。
And they could handle jobs like guard duty on their own and free up troops for more demanding roles.
他们可以自己处理警卫等工作，并腾出部队来承担更艰巨的任务。
The biggest advocate of dogs in the military was a very determined New York socialite named Alene Erlanger.
军队中最大的养狗倡导者是一位非常坚定的纽约社交名流，名叫艾琳·厄兰格(Alene Erlanger)。
Between lunches with her friend Eleanor Roosevelt, caring for her aviary of 500 rare songbirds, and operating the preeminent poodle kennel in the country, Erlanger helped found an organization called Dogs for Defense to promote the cause.
在与朋友埃莉诺·罗斯福共进午餐、照顾她饲养的 500 只稀有鸣禽的鸟舍以及经营该国卓越的贵宾犬舍的间隙，厄兰格帮助成立了一个名为“防卫犬”的组织来促进这一事业。
She managed, finally, to persuade Quartermaster Edmund Gregory to try out a few hundred dogs to guard ammunition plants and depots.
最后，她设法说服军需官埃德蒙·格雷戈里尝试用几百只狗来守卫弹药厂和仓库。
It was a success-- in fact, such a success that Gregory wanted 125,000 more dogs as soon as possible to serve beside American troops.
这是一次成功——事实上，如此成功以至于格雷戈里希望尽快再增加 125,000 只狗与美国军队一起服役。
Each sentry dog must immediately learn not to get excited by the presence of another dog.
每只哨兵必须立即学会不要因另一只狗的出现而兴奋。
The untrained [INAUDIBLE] dog's greatest failing, and so they're trained to walk through a group of dogs, paying attention only to the soldier trainer.
未经训练的[听不清]狗最大的失败是，所以他们被训练在一群狗中行走，只注意士兵训练员。
The problem was finding 125,000 dogs on short notice.
问题是在短时间内找到 125,000 只狗。
The solution was something never done before or since in this country.
这个解决方案是这个国家以前或之后从未做过的事情。
The Army asked Americans to loan their pets to the war effort, to sign them up as soldiers.
陆军要求美国人将他们的宠物借给战争，让他们报名参军。
Using Rin Tin Tin, the movie-star dog, as its mascot, Dogs for Defense began running ads and news features recruiting dogs for the Army.
以电影明星狗任丁丁为吉祥物，“防卫犬”组织开始投放广告和新闻专题，为陆军招募军犬。
And amazingly enough, tens of thousands of people from all over the country responded.
令人惊讶的是，来自全国各地的数万人做出了回应。
Of course, this was a time when people did just about anything they could to support the war effort, collecting scrap metal, rolling bandages, growing victory gardens.
当然，在这个时代，人们竭尽全力支持战争，收集废金属、卷绷带、种植胜利花园。
And now the War Department received thousands of letters from eager volunteers-- that is, people eagerly volunteering their dogs to volunteer, like this one.
现在，陆军部收到了数千封来自热心志愿者的来信——也就是说，人们热切地自愿让他们的狗去做志愿者，就像这封信一样。
"We want to kill all of the Japs we can.
“我们想杀死所有能杀死的日本人。
We are glad to give Laddie away if he will help."
如果莱迪愿意提供帮助，我们很高兴将他送走。”
Or this one, from Bogalusa, Louisiana.
或者这个，来自路易斯安那州博加卢萨。
"I went to the picture show last night, and on a newsreel reel or something, I saw where they are training dogs to help our soldiers on guard duty.
“我昨晚去看了电影，在新闻片或其他什么东西上，我看到他们正在训练狗来帮助我们的士兵执勤。
Now, I have a pretty dog.
现在，我有一只漂亮的狗。
He is a very smart dog.
他是一只非常聪明的狗。
He was my brother's dog, but when he joined the Navy, he gave him to me.
他是我哥哥的狗，但当他加入海军时，他把他送给了我。
Now, if you all can use him and promise to feed him well, you can have him, for I know if he could talk, he would say that he wants to help our country.
现在，如果你们都可以使用他并保证让他吃得好，你们就可以拥有他，因为我知道如果他会说话，他会说他想帮助我们的国家。
Yours truly, Earl Buck Boyd."
此致，巴克·博伊德伯爵。”
Here's one last one, from a woman in Towson, Maryland, offering her nine-month-old pup.
这是马里兰州陶森市一位妇女提供的最后一张照片，她正在给她九个月大的小狗。
"I love him because I know he will make a fine dog.
“我爱他，因为我知道他会成为一只优秀的狗。
But I also love my son, and I gave him up for war work.
但我也爱我的儿子，我放弃了他去参加战争工作。
And I will give my dog also if he can help in this war.
如果我的狗能在这场战争中提供帮助，我也会送给他。
It is not much I can do, but if you can use him, send for him any time you want him.
我能做的不多，但如果你可以使用他，请随时派人来找他。
But when the war is over and he is still alive, return him back to me."
但等战争结束，他还活着，把他还给我。”
As for Gina and her German shepherd, Tommy, Gina's father liked what he had heard about Dogs for Defense.
至于吉娜和她的德国牧羊犬汤米，吉娜的父亲很喜欢他所听说的“防卫犬”组织。
At any rate, someone came out to look at Tommy.
不管怎样，有人出来看汤米了。
And they said, yes, they would take him.
他们说，是的，他们会带走他。
And as I think back on it, it's sort of like if you have a teenager who's just difficult, having a lot of trouble, you can't really get him to be going the right way, and you think, oh, let's send him to military school.
我回想起来，这有点像如果你有一个青少年，他很困难，有很多麻烦，你无法真正让他走上正确的道路，你会想，哦，让我们送他去军校吧。
That'll probably straighten him out, get education and organization and so on.
这可能会让他改正过来，接受教育和组织等等。
And this is sort of a little bit the way I think that Tommy went to the K-9 Corps, that they would train him--
这有点像我认为汤米去 K-9 军团的方式，他们会训练他——
The training's all important, and stress is laid on perfect and immediate obedience, learning to sense and discover the presence of suspicious persons out of sight or earshot of their MP master, to attack when ordered, to grab a trigger arm if there's a gun.
训练非常重要，重点是完美和立即的服从，学会感知和发现MP主人视线之外或听不到的可疑人员的存在，在接到命令时进行攻击，如果有枪就抓住扳机。
Go get him, King.
去抓他吧，国王。
Get that trigger arm.
拿起扳机臂。
Hold tight.
抓紧。
At first, the Army and Marine Corps accepted just about any healthy dog that was at least 18 inches high at the shoulder.
起初，陆军和海军陆战队接受几乎所有肩高至少 18 英寸的健康狗。
Over time, though, it became clear that not every dog was Army-ready.
然而，随着时间的推移，我们发现并不是每只狗都做好了参军的准备。
Great Danes were too big for combat.
大丹犬体型太大，不适合战斗。
Hunting breeds were too easily distracted.
狩猎品种太容易分心。
And Dalmatians were too easy for the enemy to spot, even after the Army dyed them brown, since the dye came off in the rain.
而且达尔马提亚狗太容易被敌人发现，即使军队把它们染成了棕色，因为染料会在雨中脱落。
So the Army politely refused any dogs other than German shepherds, Belgian sheepdogs, Dobermans, collies, huskies, malamutes, and mutts that were mostly one of those breeds.
因此，除了德国牧羊犬、比利时牧羊犬、杜宾犬、牧羊犬、哈士奇、雪橇犬和杂种狗（这些狗大多属于这些品种）之外，陆军礼貌地拒绝了任何其他狗。
There were an estimated 13 million dogs in the US at that time.
当时美国估计有 1300 万只狗。
America was undergoing the great migration off of farms and into cities.
美国正在经历从农场到城市的大迁徙。
And people had less space than ever.
人们的空间比以往任何时候都少。
And yet the number of dogs was exploding.
然而狗的数量却呈爆炸式增长。
The thing is, we were keeping dogs for different reasons than in the past.
问题是，我们养狗的原因与过去不同。
Instead of being workers on farms and ranches, now dogs were just kept to be our companions.
现在狗不再是农场和牧场的工人，而是成为我们的伴侣。
They were emotional allies.
他们是情感上的盟友。
Now dogs lived among us, inside our houses rather than out in the yard, and treated as family members rather than livestock.
现在狗生活在我们中间，在我们的房子里而不是在院子里，并被视为家庭成员而不是牲畜。
Sending them off to war wasn't exactly the same as sending off a son or brother, but it was a lot more intimate than donating scrap metal or buying a war bond.
送他们去打仗和送儿子或兄弟不完全一样，但这比捐赠废金属或购买战争债券要亲密得多。
Each enlisted dog was issued a record book in which trainers detailed the animal's progress with comments like "Rollo is a high-spirited dog.
每只入伍的狗都会收到一本记录册，训练师在其中详细介绍了该动物的进步，并评论道“罗洛是一只斗志昂扬的狗。
He was very successful and did his job excellent." And "War Dog Mitzi has been on 25 combat patrols." Or "Dog caught cold while at sea, feverish." Or "Dog found to be out of her head.
他非常成功，并且出色地完成了自己的工作。” “战犬米兹已经参加了 25 次战斗巡逻。”或者“狗在海上感冒了，发烧了。”或者“狗发现她疯了。
Trainers were unable to work with her."
培训师无法与她一起工作。”
Just as people wanted to know how their family and friends in the Army were getting along, they wanted to know how their dogs were doing.
正如人们想知道他们在军队中的家人和朋友过得怎么样一样，他们也想知道他们的狗过得怎么样。
They sent them Christmas cards and birthday cards, and wrote to the Army asking after Butch and Chips and Peppy and Smokey.
他们给他们寄了圣诞贺卡和生日贺卡，并写信给军队询问布奇和奇普斯、佩皮和斯莫基的情况。
At first, the Army tried to respond to all these inquiries.
起初，陆军试图对所有这些询问做出回应。
But as the mail piled up, they resorted to sending out a form letter, saying that in the interest of military secrecy, no further information about the dogs could be provided.
但随着邮件堆积如山，他们只好寄出一封套用信函，称出于军事保密的考虑，无法提供有关这些狗的进一步信息。
Not everyone was satisfied with that answer.
并非所有人都对这个答案感到满意。
One couple, a Mr. and Mrs. Powell, complained to their congressman when they didn't get any news about their dog Lucky.
一对夫妇，鲍威尔夫妇，在没有收到有关他们的狗“幸运”的任何消息后向国会议员抱怨。
The congressman contacted the quartermaster, who wrote back saying, "The desire for such information is but a natural one and well understood by this office.
国会议员联系了军需官，军需官回信说：“对此类信息的渴望是很自然的，并且这个办公室很理解。
However, due to the large number of dogs constantly being received for training, it is physically impossible to furnish the desired information to each individual donor without incurring the expense of employing a large clerical force.
然而，由于不断接收大量狗进行训练，因此在物理上不可能向每个捐赠者提供所需的信息，而不需要雇用大量的文书人员。
It is the desire of this office to assure Mr. and Mrs. Powell that their dog is receiving the best of care and attention and has been given a position in the War Dog program where he will do the most good."
该办公室希望向鲍威尔先生和夫人保证，他们的狗正在受到最好的照顾和关注，并且已在战犬计划中获得了一个职位，他将在其中发挥最大作用。”
All that most people knew was that their pets were helping win the war.
大多数人只知道他们的宠物正在帮助赢得战争。
In the National Archives, there's footage of canine training that the military didn't make public until after the war.
在国家档案馆中，有一些军犬训练的镜头，军方直到战后才公开。
It shows dogs crawling through tunnels, running telephone wires across mock battlefields, and delivering ammunition and carrier pigeons to soldiers in trenches.
它展示了狗在隧道中爬行，在模拟战场上铺设电话线，以及向战壕中的士兵运送弹药和信鸽。
In another scene, the dogs practice attacking enemy soldiers played by Japanese-American volunteers.
在另一个场景中，狗练习攻击由日裔美国志愿者扮演的敌方士兵。
There was one job in the K-9 Corps that I didn't know about until recently, something the Army called Bunker Dogs.
K-9 军团中有一项工作我直到最近才知道，陆军称之为“碉堡狗”。
In the National Archives, I found pictures of three of them, a German shepherd, a Doberman, and a collie, each wearing an elaborate canvas saddlebag.
在国家档案馆中，我找到了其中三只狗的照片，一只德国牧羊犬、一只杜宾犬和一只牧羊犬，每只都戴着一个精致的帆布马鞍包。
The next photograph showed the contents of the saddlebag-- 40 pounds of explosives, a time-delay fuse, and a detonator-- with the caption "Bunker dog loaded for operation with equipment shown." These dogs were training to be suicide bombers.
下一张照片显示了马鞍包中的物品——40磅炸药、延时引信和雷管——标题是“地堡狗已装满，准备使用所示设备进行操作”。这些狗正在接受自杀式炸弹袭击的训练。
In the pictures, they look eager and happy, their ears and tails at alert, the way dogs so often do.
在照片中，它们看起来热切而快乐，耳朵和尾巴都处于警觉状态，就像狗经常做的那样。
Did you ever try to picture where he was or think about his circumstances once he had enlisted?
你有没有尝试过想象他入伍后他在哪里或者思考过他的处境？
Well, I think maybe only in the sense that I might have thought about my high-school friends who had gone into the Army.
嗯，我想也许只是在某种意义上我可能想到了我参军的高中朋友。
Again, Gina Snyder.
又是吉娜·斯奈德。
Gina Snyder I'm probably brainwashed by some kind of movies or something, because I could see him walking with a soldier and scouting patrol, or looking for Germans, probably very unrealistic, kind of daydreamed-- but bravely doing a service out on the battlefield.
吉娜·斯奈德（Gina Snyder） 我可能被某种电影或其他东西洗脑了，因为我可以看到他与士兵一起行走和侦察巡逻队，或者寻找德国人，可能非常不现实，有点白日梦 - 但勇敢地在战场上服役。
When you donated your pet to the military, you had to sign a form saying you understood that the training and experience of combat might change your dog's personality permanently and that the government wasn't liable if your dog came home a killer.
当您将宠物捐赠给军队时，您必须签署一份表格，表明您了解战斗的训练和经验可能会永久改变您的狗的性格，并且如果您的狗回家时成为杀手，政府不承担责任。
This could have had a chilling effect, so the Army publicized the fact that every dog would be deprogrammed before it was discharged, with lots of petting and cuddling.
这可能会产生寒蝉效应，因此陆军公开了这样一个事实：每只狗在退役前都会被解除编程，并进行大量的抚摸和拥抱。
Newspapers ran encouraging stories about demobilized dogs and their successful return to their families, along with photos of the dogs at home, with captions like "Here's Spike in civilian life" and "Goofy the Warrior Dog comes home," and letters from families describing happy reunions.
报纸刊登了关于复员狗和它们成功回到家人身边的令人鼓舞的故事，以及这些狗在家里的照片，并配上诸如“这是平民生活中的斯派克”和“勇士狗高飞回家”等标题，以及描述幸福团聚的家人的来信。
Even Lassie got in on the effort.
就连莱西也参与其中。
In 1946, the collie starred along with Elizabeth Taylor in The Courage of Lassie, a film about a gentle collie named Bill with PTSD.
1946 年，这只牧羊犬与伊丽莎白·泰勒 (Elizabeth Taylor) 一起主演了《莱西的勇气》(The Courage of Lassie)，这部电影讲述了一只名叫比尔 (Bill) 的温柔牧羊犬患有创伤后应激障碍 (PTSD) 的故事。
A sudden cruel twist of fate took Bill away from Kathie, and he found himself in a different world among strange people who fought and killed.
突然残酷的命运转折让比尔离开了凯西，他发现自己身处一个不同的世界，周围都是战斗和杀戮的陌生人们。
Mutely and heroically, he struggled against this man-made inferno.
他默默地、英勇地与这人造的地狱作斗争。
Wounded and spirit shattered, Bill broke away and returned to the land he once knew.
比尔受伤了，精神崩溃了，他挣脱了束缚，回到了他曾经熟悉的土地。
But he came back a killer.
但他回来后却成了杀手。
He heard the call of the wild and answered.
他听到了野性的呼唤并做出了回应。
[DOG GROWLING] Susan Orlean Of course, this was war, and some of the dogs never came home.
[狗咆哮] 苏珊·奥尔良 当然，这是战争，有些狗再也没有回家。
Here's Marine Private First Class Mason Wachtsletter writing to the owners of a dog named Tubby.
这是海军陆战队一等兵梅森·沃茨特斯写给一只名叫塔比的狗的主人的信。
"Tubby was in the front lines 23 days and had been on about 15 patrols.
“塔比在前线工作了 23 天，并进行了大约 15 次巡逻。
The second night in, he ran four Japs into a cave.
第二天晚上，他把四个日本人赶进了一个山洞。
And when they thought he was coming after them, they blew their heads off with hand grenades.
当他们认为他正在追赶他们时，他们用手榴弹炸掉了他们的头。
Now I have to tell you the worst.
现在我必须告诉你最坏的情况。
Tubby was shot and killed the night of August 31.
8 月 31 日晚，塔比被枪杀。
He behaved like a true Marine at all times and didn't even whimper when he died.
他始终表现得像一名真正的海军陆战队员，死时甚至没有哭泣。
We've buried him in the Marine Cemetery along with the other real heroes of this campaign.
我们将他与这场战役中的其他真正英雄一起埋葬在海军陆战队公墓中。
And if it is at all possible, I'll send you a picture of his grave.
如果可能的话，我会给你寄一张他坟墓的照片。
He has a cross with his name and rank.
他的名字和军衔上有一个十字。
He's a corporal."
他是一名下士。”
The first news the Snyders got about Tommy came some months after he had joined the Army.
斯奈德夫妇收到关于汤米的第一个消息是在他参军几个月后。
It didn't say killed in action.
并没有说阵亡。
I think that would have impressed itself on my mind.
我想这会给我留下深刻的印象。
It said, killed something, and I don't know what-- "killed in service," or what it was.
它说，杀了一些东西，但我不知道是什么——“在服役中被杀”，或者它是什么。
I don't know what he did, was it a scout dog, a patrol dog.
我不知道他做了什么，是侦察犬，巡逻犬。
I have no idea.
我不知道。
But all I remember is standing by the window crying, of course.
但当然，我只记得站在窗边哭泣。
But as I look back on it-- and I think even at that time-- I thought, I hope he was brave.
但当我回顾这一切时——我想即使在那个时候——我想，我希望他很勇敢。
It was somebody in your family who had served and had died in the service.
这是你家里的某个人曾经服役并在服役期间去世。
And that was it.
就是这样。
Oh, that's so sad, terrible.
哦，真是太可悲了，太可怕了。
Gina Snyder Well, Susan, I have to tell you, it is sad.
吉娜·斯奈德 好吧，苏珊，我必须告诉你，这很悲伤。
It was sad then.
那时很难过。
It's sad now.
现在很难过。
But I have to be honest and tell you that underneath it all, I'm still very proud of him.
但我必须诚实地告诉你，在这一切的背后，我仍然为他感到非常自豪。
It's silly, but I take pride in the fact that he performed a service.
这很愚蠢，但我为他提供的服务感到自豪。
And I don't know how useful.
而且我不知道有什么用。
Maybe he saved somebody.
也许他救了一个人。
I just don't know.
我只是不知道。
I don't know what.
我不知道是什么。
Or maybe he was totally irresponsible and got killed that way.
或许他完全不负责任，就这样被杀了。
I don't know.
我不知道。
But I am proud of him, just as I would have been if it had been a member of my family.
但我为他感到骄傲，就像如果他是我的家庭成员一样。
His life was worth something.
他的生命是有价值的。
Dogs for Defense disbanded in 1945, but that wasn't the end of dogs in the military.
防卫犬组织于 1945 年解散，但这并不是军犬的终结。
It's just that borrowing people's pets was much more complicated than anyone had imagined.
只是借用宠物的事情比任何人想象的都要复杂得多。
All those letters from anxious owners, all that petting and cuddling required to get the dogs reprogrammed as civilians.
所有那些来自焦急的主人的来信，所有的抚摸和拥抱都需要让狗重新编程为平民。
The Army decided it would be easier to buy dogs outright or accept donated dogs only if the owners agreed to give them away for good.
陆军决定，只有主人同意永久赠送狗，才更容易直接购买狗或接受捐赠的狗。
From that point forward, the dogs in the Army became property of the Army.
从那时起，军队中的狗就成为军队的财产。
And they were then treated like property, just like a gun or a hand grenade that had been purchased from a military supplier.
然后它们被当作财产对待，就像从军事供应商那里购买的枪支或手榴弹一样。
There were thousands of dogs used in Korea and Vietnam.
韩国和越南使用了数千只狗。
And almost none of them came back.
而他们几乎没有人回来。
It wasn't till the year 2000, when Congress passed a law making it possible, that the dogs' handlers, or police departments, or just dog lovers were allowed to adopt them after the war.
直到 2000 年，国会通过了一项法律，才允许狗的饲养员、警察部门或爱狗人士在战后收养它们。
Before that, when the war ended, the dogs were left behind.
在此之前，战争结束后，狗被留下了。
Or in many cases, over the protests of their handlers, they were euthanized.
或者在许多情况下，在饲养员的抗议下，它们被安乐死。
Without knowing what the war was for, the dogs had done what they'd been asked to do.
在不知道战争是为了什么的情况下，狗们已经完成了他们被要求做的事情。
Because that's the nature of the bond we have with dogs.
因为这就是我们与狗之间的纽带。
We take care of them and ask them to trust us, and they do.
我们照顾他们并要求他们信任我们，他们也这么做了。
Susan Orlean-- she's a staff writer at The New Yorker .
苏珊·奥尔良——她是《纽约客》的特约撰稿人。
An account of the World War II Dogs for Defense program is part of her book Rin Tin Tin, the Life and the Legend, which is out in paperback.
她在平装本《任丁丁，生命与传奇》一书中描述了第二次世界大战的“狗防卫”计划。
Incredible photos of dogs in World War II from the National Archives, including dogs in suicide vests, are at our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org 上有来自国家档案馆的二战时期狗的令人难以置信的照片，其中包括穿着自杀背心的狗。
Coming up, Hop Along Catastrophe.
即将到来，跳跃灾难。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's program, animal sacrifice, stories about what other creatures give up for us.
今天的节目是动物献祭，讲述其他生物为我们牺牲的故事。
We've arrived at Act Two of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
Act Two, Rabbit, Run.
第二幕，兔子，跑。
No, Really, Run!
不，真的，快跑！
This is a true story, this story, of crime and murder, from Camas Davis.
这是一个真实的故事，这个关于犯罪和谋杀的故事，来自卡马斯·戴维斯。
Sometime between 1:30 and 8:00 AM on January 8, 2012, five adults, including a nursing mother and 13 juveniles, vanished from their cages in a Portland backyard.
2012 年 1 月 8 日凌晨 1:30 至 8:00 之间的某个时间，五名成年人，包括一名哺乳期母亲和 13 名青少年，从波特兰后院的笼子里消失了。
10 one-day-old babies were left behind and subsequently died.
10名一日大的婴儿被留下，随后死亡。
We're talking rabbits here, compact, cute, furry, doe-eyed, white, brown, and black little hopping animals that were being bred and raised for meat, meat that would feed the rabbits' owners and a few of their friends.
我们这里谈论的是兔子，紧凑、可爱、毛茸茸的、有母鹿眼睛的、白色、棕色和黑色的小跳跃动物，它们被饲养和饲养是为了吃肉，这些肉可以喂兔子的主人和他们的一些朋友。
These are the facts.
这些都是事实。
I'm a journalist by trade, but to feign impartiality in this story from this point on will be nearly impossible, because I also own and operate a company that teaches people how to slaughter and butcher whole animals for personal consumption.
我是一名记者，但从现在开始在这个故事中假装公正几乎是不可能的，因为我还拥有并经营一家公司，教人们如何屠宰和屠宰整个动物以供个人消费。
As it so happens, on the morning of January 8, I was scheduled to co-teach a class on how to raise and slaughter rabbits for meat.
碰巧的是，1 月 8 日上午，我被安排共同教授一门如何饲养和屠宰兔子作为肉食的课程。
The 11 rabbits we used for that class also came from the backyard of the vanished rabbits.
我们那堂课使用的11只兔子也来自消失的兔子的后院。
However, they'd been transported to the location of the class the night before.
然而，他们在前一天晚上就被传送到了上课地点。
These 11 rabbits did not vanish in the same way their brethren did.
这 11 只兔子并没有像它们的兄弟一样消失。
They did, however, die.
然而，他们确实死了。
Here's how they died.
他们是这样死的。
Within the span of one second, we broke their necks.
不到一秒钟，我们就扭断了他们的脖子。
Within the span of another second, their eyes closed, their nervous systems shut down, their brains went dark.
又一秒的时间里，他们的眼睛闭上了，他们的神经系统关闭了，他们的大脑一片漆黑。
That was it.
就是这样。
They were alive one minute, gone the next, vanished.
他们前一分钟还活着，下一分钟就消失了，消失了。
Some people call this slaughter.
有人称此为屠杀。
Some people call it dispatching.
有人称之为调度。
Some people call it killing.
有人称之为杀戮。
Some call it murder.
有人称之为谋杀。
Some call it torture.
有人称之为酷刑。
Some call it vulgar.
有人称其粗俗。
Some call it food.
有人称之为食物。
Here is how the 10 day-old baby rabbits without the warmth or sustenance of their nursing mothers died.
以下是十天大的小兔在没有哺乳母亲的温暖和营养的情况下死亡的过程。
They suffered from hypothermia, they slowly starved to death, or they did both.
他们要么体温过低，要么慢慢饿死，或者两者兼而有之。
Some held on for a while with the help of a man-made nest of blankets and attempts to bottle-feed.
有些人在人造毯子的帮助下坚持了一段时间，并尝试用奶瓶喂养。
Some didn't.
有些没有。
By the end of the day of January 8, within the span of 6 to 12 hours, all 10 of them had died, vanished.
到1月8日结束时，在6到12小时内，他们10人全部死亡、消失。
Some people call this slaughter.
有人称此为屠杀。
Some call it killing.
有人称之为杀戮。
Some call it suffering.
有人称之为痛苦。
Some call it justice.
有人称之为正义。
Some call it saving sentient beings from the evil hands of a murderer.
有人称之为从凶手的邪恶手中拯救众生。
It all depends, of course, on who you ask.
当然，这一切都取决于你问的是谁。
My co-instructor for the class on January 8 was also the co-owner of the vanished rabbits.
我 1 月 8 日课程的共同导师也是失踪兔子的共同所有者。
His name is Levi.
他的名字叫利维。
Together with his friend Chris, Levi breeds and raises a small number of rabbits to feed their friends and families.
利维和他的朋友克里斯一起饲养了少量兔子来养活他们的朋友和家人。
During their lives, the bunnies live in cages that are larger than the Humane Society says they need to be, with plenty of room to move around and hop.
在它们的一生中，兔子生活在比人道协会所说的更大的笼子里，有足够的空间来走动和跳跃。
On the morning of January 8, when Chris discovered 10 day-old babies struggling to stay alive, he tended to the most important detail-- keeping those babies alive and trying to ease their suffering.
1 月 8 日早上，当克里斯发现 10 天大的婴儿正在挣扎着生存时，他关注了最重要的细节——让这些婴儿活下来并试图减轻他们的痛苦。
He knew of a local rabbit advocacy group that usually had nursing mothers.
他知道当地有一个兔子倡导团体，通常都有哺乳期的母亲。
In the course of talking to them, Chris and the advocates realized that his stolen bunnies had been anonymously donated to the organization.
在与他们交谈的过程中，克里斯和倡导者意识到他偷来的兔子已被匿名捐赠给该组织。
The organization had immediately fostered the rabbits out to various homes.
该组织立即将兔子寄养到各个家庭。
Then, an unexpected turn.
然后，意想不到的转折。
When the organization realized these rabbits were headed for the dinner table, they announced they did not want to give the rabbits back.
当该组织意识到这些兔子正走向餐桌时，他们宣布不想将兔子归还。
They got their animal-rights lawyer involved.
他们让动物权利律师参与其中。
He told Levi and Chris that the foster parents of these rabbits had grown attached to their new pets.
他告诉利瓦伊和克里斯，这些兔子的养父母已经对他们的新宠物产生了依恋。
The organization offered $1,500 in total for all of the fostered rabbits.
该组织为所有寄养的兔子提供了总计 1,500 美元的资金。
That's $83 a rabbit.
一只兔子 83 美元。
Levi and Chris typically charge between $15 and $20 for a live rabbit, which reimburses them for the cost of raising them.
Levi 和 Chris 通常对一只活兔子收取 15 至 20 美元的费用，这可以补偿他们的饲养费用。
Levi and Chris told them, these rabbits were stolen.
利威尔和克里斯告诉他们，这些兔子是被偷的。
We would like for you to return them.
我们希望您归还它们。
If you would then like to knock on our door and buy them from us at cost, we would be happy to see you.
如果您愿意来敲我们的门并以成本价从我们这里购买它们，我们将很高兴见到您。
Chris and Levi waited to hear back.
克里斯和利威尔等待着回复。
The advocates waited for them to change their minds.
支持者等待他们改变主意。
It was a standoff.
这是一场僵局。
The lawyer acted as go-between.
律师充当了中间人的角色。
In 2009, after 10 years of working as a magazine editor in New York and then Portland, I was laid off for the first time in my life.
2009 年，在纽约和波特兰担任杂志编辑 10 年后，我人生第一次被解雇。
Like so many victims of the recession, I pouted for a while and then decided to completely reinvent myself, this time as a butcher.
像许多经济衰退的受害者一样，我撅起了嘴，然后决定彻底重塑自己，这次是一名屠夫。
I asked chefs and butchers if they'd be willing to teach me.
我问厨师和屠夫是否愿意教我。
None had the time or the interest.
没有人有时间或兴趣。
Through a friend of a friend, I found the Chapolards, a French family of four brothers who, with two of their wives, own and operate a farm in southwestern France where they handle every aspect of getting pork to dinner tables.
通过朋友的朋友，我找到了Chapolards一家，这是一个由四兄弟组成的法国家庭，他们和他们的两个妻子在法国西南部拥有并经营着一个农场，在那里他们负责将猪肉送上餐桌的各个方面。
I bought a plane ticket.
我买了一张机票。
I spoke no French.
我不会说法语。
The Chapolards spoke little English.
Chapolard 一家几乎不会说英语。
They handed me knives and pointed to pork legs and bellies and heads and shoulders and trusted I would find my way.
他们递给我刀，指着猪腿、猪肚、猪头和猪肩，相信我会找到路。
I returned to Oregon wanting to learn more.
我回到俄勒冈州想要了解更多。
I told all those chefs and butchers who wouldn't teach me before that I'd find students to pay them to teach the art of butchery.
我告诉所有那些以前不会教我的厨师和屠夫，我会找学生付钱给他们教授屠宰艺术。
The Portland Meat Collective was born.
波特兰肉类集体诞生了。
I had no idea that classes would sell out.
我不知道课程会卖完。
The basic idea behind the Portland Meat Collective was this.
波特兰肉类集体背后的基本理念是这样的。
I wanted omnivores, carnivores, pescetarians, fruititarians, vegetarians, breathetarians, and vegans alike to have the chance to truly engage with their food, with one another, and then decide where they stood on the meat-no-meat spectrum.
我希望杂食动物、肉食动物、鱼素动物、果食动物、素食主义者、呼吸动物和纯素食主义者都有机会真正与他们的食物接触，彼此接触，然后决定他们在肉与肉之间的立场。
Some students simply want to learn to raise animals.
有些学生只是想学习饲养动物。
Some want to preserve meat at home.
有些人想在家保存肉类。
Others show up to learn how to butcher whole animals.
其他人则前来学习如何屠宰整只动物。
And a few show up to see if they can stomach killing an animal.
还有一些人出现，看看他们是否能忍受杀死动物。
Media often question whether the Portland Meat Collective is just a bunch of privileged hipsters worshipping at the feet of the bacon gods.
媒体经常质疑波特兰肉类集体是否只是一群崇拜培根神的特权时髦人士。
I usually tell them this.
我通常会告诉他们这一点。
I am not obsessed with bacon.
我对培根并不着迷。
I do not growl and flex my muscles after breaking down a whole pig.
我不会在打倒一整头猪后咆哮和秀肌肉。
I do not have a tattoo of a pig head on my bicep, nor do I have a boning knife tattooed on my calf.
我的二头肌上没有纹猪头，小腿上也没有纹剔骨刀。
I abhor the term "meat head." and for the most part, so do my students.
我讨厌“肉头”这个词。大多数情况下，我的学生也是如此。
I tell them that after taking my classes, many report that they eat less meat.
我告诉他们，参加我的课程后，许多人报告说他们吃的肉少了。
My students also tell me that they can't bring themselves to buy most of the meat they see in grocery stores anymore.
我的学生还告诉我，他们再也无法购买杂货店里看到的大部分肉类了。
I tell them that that's what happened to me, too.
我告诉他们，这也发生在我身上。
I tell them I was raised as a hunter and fisher, that my dad handed me a fish whacker when I was 7 and told me to hit the fish in the head with it after I hooked it and slowly reeled it into the boat, to ease its suffering, he said.
“我告诉他们，我是作为一名猎人和渔夫长大的，我七岁时，我父亲递给我一把鱼锤，并告诉我，在我钩住鱼后，用它敲击鱼的头部，然后慢慢地将它卷入船上，以减轻它的痛苦，”他说。
I tell them I turned vegetarian for 10 years, and then ate meat without thinking about why or from whence it came for another 10 years.
我告诉他们我吃素已经有十年了，然后又吃了十年肉，而不去想为什么或从哪里来。
The Portland Meat Collective is where I stand now, I say.
我说，波特兰肉类集体就是我现在所处的位置。
It feels honest and blatant, respectful and messy.
给人的感觉既诚实又公然，既尊重又凌乱。
I tell them that there is something about all of this that makes some people really, really angry.
我告诉他们，这一切让一些人真的非常生气。
When the rabbits vanished, Levi, Chris, and I chose to publicize it, to try and get the rabbits back and in hopes of finding the person or people who took the rabbits.
当兔子消失后，利威尔、克里斯和我选择将此事公之于众，试图把兔子找回来，并希望找到带走兔子的人。
Stories appeared in local and national newspapers.
故事出现在当地和全国报纸上。
Sometimes I woke up to emails like this.
有时我醒来时会收到这样的电子邮件。
"Things you should do today.
“今天应该做的事情。
Number one, get cancer.
第一，得癌症。
Number two, rot slowly and painfully."
第二，缓慢而痛苦地腐烂。”
Others imagined my demise in more inventive ways.
其他人以更有创意的方式想象我的死亡。
"You are chicken [BLEEP].
“你是胆小鬼[哔]。
I'd love to see you in a lion's cage and see what you think of butchery then."
我很想看看你被关在狮子笼子里，看看你对屠宰有什么看法。”
The meat-eaters were just as impassioned.
肉食者也同样热情。
Here's a comment from my website.
这是我网站上的评论。
"People enjoy eating meat.
“人们喜欢吃肉。
Animals are made of meat.
动物是由肉制成的。
Therefore, we must eat the animals.
因此，我们必须吃动物。
Small woodland creatures, such as rabbits, rats, mice, et cetera, are just the chicken nuggets of the animal world anyway.
林地里的小动物，比如兔子、大鼠、老鼠等等，无论如何都只是动物世界的鸡块。
And yes, I'll eat near any animal, long as you cook his ass up right."
是的，我会在任何动物附近吃东西，只要你把他的屁股煮熟了。”
While I found myself in the thick of this online fight, conducting media interviews and fielding death threats by phone, Chris and Levi were enduring visits to their homes by rather angry vegan activists.
当我发现自己正处于这场网络斗争的最激烈阶段，接受媒体采访并通过电话应对死亡威胁时，克里斯和利维却忍受着相当愤怒的素食活动人士到他们家中拜访。
Levi took to sleeping with a gun under his pillow.
利威尔睡觉时习惯把枪放在枕头下。
While all this was happening, the rabbit advocacy group eventually returned, via their lawyer, all but one rabbit to Levi and Chris.
当这一切发生时，兔子权益倡导组织最终通过律师，将除了一只兔子之外的所有兔子归还给了利瓦伊和克里斯。
The one rabbit that was not returned was a male breeder rabbit named Roger.
唯一没有归还的兔子是一只名叫罗杰的雄性种兔。
Roger had been fostered to a woman who decided to hire her own lawyer.
罗杰被一位女士收养，她决定聘请自己的律师。
On January 12, 2012, just four days after the rabbit had gone missing, the lawyer sent a letter to us stating that the woman had grown attached to Roger and would like to offer $200, or the cost of replacing Roger, whichever was greater.
2012 年 1 月 12 日，就在兔子失踪四天后，律师给我们发了一封信，表示该女子已经对罗杰产生了感情，愿意出价 200 美元，或者更换罗杰的费用，以较高者为准。
In describing her client's feelings for Roger, which had developed over the course of four days, the lawyer also quoted Anatole France, a French poet, journalist, and novelist.
在描述她的委托人对罗杰的感情（在四天内形成的感情）时，律师还引用了法国诗人、记者和小说家阿纳托尔·弗朗斯（Anatole France）的话。
"Until one has loved an animal, part of one's soul remains unawakened."
“在一个人爱上一只动物之前，一个人灵魂的一部分仍然没有被唤醒。”
Levi and Chris responded in the same manner as before.
利威尔和克里斯的反应和之前一样。
Return the rabbit, please.
请把兔子还给我。
Then come talk to us, and we'll sell him to you at cost.
那么来和我们谈谈，我们会以成本价把他卖给你。
The woman did return Roger eventually.
那个女人最终还是送回了罗杰。
The hand-off occurred in her lawyer's office.
交接发生在她的律师办公室。
She did not show up for the event.
她没有出席该活动。
It was just Levi, the lawyer, and Roger, sitting alone together in a conference room.
会议室里只有利威尔、律师和罗杰一人坐在一起。
"Well, this is awkward," Levi said to the lawyer.
“嗯，这很尴尬，”利威尔对律师说。
A few weeks later, Chris and Levi decided to sell the juvenile rabbits back to the rabbit advocacy group.
几周后，克里斯和利维决定将幼兔卖回兔子倡导组织。
I don't know the details of the sale, but the plan was to donate any profits to a Haitian charity that Levi works with a few times a year.
我不知道出售的细节，但计划是将所有利润捐赠给李维每年几次合作的海地慈善机构。
Levi then received another letter from the lawyer representing Roger Rabbit's foster mother.
随后利威尔又收到了代表兔子罗杰养母的律师的来信。
Instead of simply knocking on Levi's door and offering $20 for Roger, the client offered to donate $1,000 to Levi's charity.
该客户并没有简单地敲开 Levi's 的门并为 Roger 提供 20 美元，而是主动向 Levi's 慈善机构捐赠 1,000 美元。
Levi accepted the offer.
利威尔接受了这个提议。
Roger was returned to his foster mother.
罗杰被送回养母身边。
Everyone was happy, especially the Haitians, who will benefit from a new program seeded by the $1,000 donation that teaches them how to raise rabbits-- for food.
每个人都很高兴，尤其是海地人，他们将从一项由 1,000 美元捐款发起的新计划中受益，该计划教他们如何饲养兔子——作为食物。
After all of this, it's my hunch that few if any minds were changed.
经历了这一切之后，我的预感是，几乎没有人改变主意。
People on all sides of the fight continued to do whatever it is they do.
战斗各方的人们继续做他们所做的事情。
People who didn't eat meat continued to not eat it.
不吃肉的人继续不吃肉。
People with bacon fetishes continued to wax poetic over pork belly.
迷恋培根的人们继续对五花肉充满诗意。
People who hate killing spiders continued to not kill spiders.
讨厌杀死蜘蛛的人仍然不杀死蜘蛛。
Factory farms continued to cram thousands of cattle into confined spaces.
工厂化农场继续将数千头牛塞进有限的空间。
Those who think of me as a sociopath continue to think of me that way.
那些认为我是反社会者的人仍然这样认为我。
My classes continue to sell out.
我的课程继续售空。
And yet I can't help but pay attention to the fact that all of us-- Levi, Chris, the people who stole the rabbits, the people who took them into their homes, and I-- all have something in common.
但我还是忍不住要注意这样一个事实：我们所有人——利威尔、克里斯、偷兔子的人、把兔子带回家的人，还有我——都有一些共同点。
All of us held the rabbits in our hands at some point, felt their pulse, contemplated their life, their deaths.
我们所有人都曾在某个时刻把兔子握在手里，摸着它们的脉搏，思考着它们的生命和死亡。
Each of us tried to find meaning and make a stand within our very different acts.
我们每个人都试图在我们截然不同的行为中寻找意义并表明自己的立场。
All of us thought we were doing the right thing.
我们所有人都认为我们做的是正确的事。
For those of us who choose to raise and kill animals for food, it's anything but a simple choice.
对于我们这些选择饲养和宰杀动物作为食物的人来说，这绝不是一个简单的选择。
In fact, it's hard and complicated every time.
事实上，每一次都是艰难而复杂的。
I look the animal in the eye as we breathe the same air.
当我们呼吸相同的空气时，我看着动物的眼睛。
The same tree shades us.
同一棵树为我们遮荫。
The world slows just long enough for us to see our shared place within it.
世界放慢脚步的时间刚好足以让我们看到我们在其中的共同位置。
And just before that moment that so few of us want to admit we're capable of-- that moment in which one animal chooses to kill another for food-- we're not only forced to realize what it means to be human, we're forced to realize what it means to be animal, too.
就在我们中很少有人愿意承认自己有能力的那一刻之前——一种动物选择杀死另一种动物以获取食物的那一刻——我们不仅被迫意识到作为人类意味着什么，我们也被迫意识到作为动物意味着什么。
Camas Davis in Portland, Oregon.
卡马斯·戴维斯 (Camas Davis)，俄勒冈州波特兰市。
A version of her essay first appeared in Oregon Humanities magazine.
她的文章的一个版本首次出现在俄勒冈人文杂志上。
[MUSIC - "DEAD RABBIT" BY ROSE POLENZANI]
[音乐 - 罗斯·波伦扎尼的《死兔子》]
Act Three, Human Sacrifice.
第三幕，人类牺牲。
OK, this is a story that has been seven years in the making, though I did not realize that until very, very recently.
好吧，这个故事已经酝酿了七年，尽管我直到最近才意识到这一点。
In this story, it is not really the animal that is making the sacrifice, though you can be the judge of that.
在这个故事中，真正做出牺牲的并不是动物，尽管你可以对此做出判断。
Here is Nancy Updike.
请听南希·厄普代克的报道。
There's a file in my brain labeled "Piney," P-I-N-E-Y, Piney.
我的大脑中有一个文件，标有“Piney”，P-I-N-E-Y，Piney。
It's a slender file compared to lots of others.
与许多其他文件相比，它是一个细长的文件。
For instance, the one labeled "Ill-Considered Actions, 1987 Through Present." But the Piney file is intriguing exactly because it's so thin.
例如，一张标有“考虑不周的行为，1987 年至今”的标签。但Piney 文件之所以有趣，正是因为它非常薄。
What do you know about Piney?
关于派尼，你了解多少？
Man 1 I don't know a lot about Piney.
Man 1 我对Piney了解不多。
What do you know about Piney?
关于派尼，你了解多少？
Woman 1 Piney's sort of this mysterious figure in our life.
女人 1 派尼是我们生活中的神秘人物。
I mean, my first impression was just Piney is misunderstood.
我的意思是，我的第一印象只是派尼被误解了。
I would love to meet Piney's doctors.
我很想见见派尼的医生。
I've heard he has a team of doctors.
我听说他有一个医生团队。
These people are all on staff at This American Life , and Piney is Ira's dog.
这些人都是《This American Life》的工作人员，Piney 是 Ira 的狗。
The name comes from Ira's wife, Anaheed.
这个名字来自艾拉的妻子阿纳希德。
She had a dream about having a dog named Piney.
她梦想拥有一只名叫Piney的狗。
What else do people know?
人们还知道什么？
I know that Piney has to eat really specialized food.
我知道派尼必须吃非常特殊的食物。
We get boxes in the office, and those boxes are--
我们在办公室里有盒子，这些盒子是——
Kangaroo?
袋鼠？
Woman 1 Kangaroo, dry-ice-packed kangaroo meat.
女人 1 袋鼠，干冰包装的袋鼠肉。
I know there've been others.
我知道还有其他人。
I know there's been rabbits.
我知道那里有兔子。
Maybe there was bison, but I'm not sure.
也许有野牛，但我不确定。
Yeah, there was bison.
是的，有野牛。
Woman 1 OK.
女人 1 好的。
I would like just a full list.
我想要一份完整的清单。
I don't understand how you don't see it as extraordinary.
我不明白你怎么不认为它是非凡的。
You're getting kangaroo meat delivered to our office in a radio studio.
您正在将袋鼠肉送到我们位于广播演播室的办公室。
Ira was the only person in the office who didn't see anything noteworthy about all this.
艾拉是办公室里唯一没有看出这一切有什么值得注意的人。
I've known Ira for 17 years, and nothing he's ever done has raised more questions than Piney.
我认识 Ira 已经 17 年了，他所做的一切都没有比 Piney 更引起人们的质疑。
It's not that he talks about Piney a lot.
这并不是说他经常谈论Piney。
We're not a pet-crazed office.
我们不是一个对宠物狂热的办公室。
We don't have "bring your dog to work day."
我们没有“带狗上班日”。
But for years, we've been getting these snippets about Piney, sometimes double-take inducing.
但多年来，我们一直在获取有关派尼的这些片段，有时甚至会让人产生双重印象。
Piney takes Valium.
派尼服用安定。
Piney's eating ostrich now.
派尼现在正在吃鸵鸟。
Piney used to eat $90 worth of rabbits per week.
派尼过去每周吃价值 90 美元的兔子。
Piney can't walk near men on the street, because if a man-- any man-- looks him in the eye, he'll attack him.
派尼不能在街上靠近男人，因为如果一个男人——任何男人——看着他的眼睛，他就会攻击他。
The last time I saw Anaheed in the office, she was with Piney.
我上次在办公室见到阿纳希德时，她和派尼在一起。
And I went to give her a hug, and she said, "No, no, don't come over.
我走过去拥抱她，她说：“不，不，别过来。
Don't look at Piney." So we stood there chatting 10 feet apart.
别看派尼。”所以我们站在那里聊天，相隔十英尺。
Until now, it's never quite felt OK to stop and say to Ira, can we talk about Piney?
直到现在，停下来对艾拉说，我们可以谈谈派尼吗？
Almost every person on staff I talked to about this, in almost every conversation, there was a moment when the person's voice dropped to a whisper, and they said, "Can I ask this?
几乎与我交谈过的每个员工都谈到了这一点，几乎在每次谈话中，都有一个人的声音降低到耳语的时刻，他们说：“我可以问这个吗？
Is this OK?"
这样可以吗？”
That's Ira's question.
这是艾拉的问题。
I wouldn't put it like that.
我不会这么说。
Ira's pretty far from throwing his life away.
艾拉离放弃自己的生命还很远。
But with his permission, I'm opening the Piney file.
但在他允许的情况下，我将打开 Piney 档案。
Piney's a smallish, sweet-faced pit bull.
派尼是一只身材娇小、面容甜美的斗牛犬。
Think Little Rascals, not Michael Vick.
想想《小流氓》，而不是迈克尔·维克。
He's a rescue, a very pretty dog, white with these big light-brown patches.
他是一只救援犬，一只非常漂亮的狗，白色，有这些大的浅棕色斑点。
He's timid.
他很胆怯。
He can get scared of puppies and other animals much weaker than he is.
他可能会害怕小狗和其他比他弱得多的动物。
But when he gets anxious, he sometimes attacks people.
但当他感到焦虑时，有时他会攻击别人。
He has to wear a muzzle whenever he goes anywhere outside Ira's apartment, including the office.
每当他去艾拉公寓以外的任何地方（包括办公室）时，他都必须戴上口罩。
Ira and his wife never have friends over, because Piney would go after them.
艾拉和他的妻子从来不邀请朋友过来，因为派尼会追随他们。
Piney is fearful and anxiety prone.
派尼很害怕并且容易焦虑。
And he has to take Valium to keep from being even more aggressive.
他必须服用安定才能避免变得更加具有攻击性。
It's almost like somebody who's fearful who is also a pit bull.
这几乎就像一个害怕的人同时也是一只斗牛犬。
If you imagine--
如果你想象——
It's exactly that.
正是如此。
Ira Glass It is exactly that, yeah.
Ira Glass 确实如此，是的。
It's not even like it.
甚至都不像。
That is what is it.
就是这样。
That is what it is.
就是这样。
He was a normal dog until a wedding that Anaheed took him to.
在阿纳希德带他去参加一场婚礼之前，他一直是一只普通的狗。
Anaheed drove up ahead of me, and the dog was there with her and was a puppy.
阿纳希德开车在我前面，那只狗和她在一起，而且是一只小狗。
And all these people were hanging around.
所有这些人都在闲逛。
And there was a moment where he bit the host's daughter, Hope, who was 9 or 10 at the time.
有一次，他咬了主人的女儿霍普，当时她才9岁或10岁。
He just got up off the floor, saw her come into the room, walked over, and bit her.
他刚从地板上站起来，看到她走进房间，就走过去咬了她。
And then he bit a friend of ours, Vicky, her son.
然后他咬了我们的一个朋友维姬，她的儿子。
He bit two children.
他咬了两个孩子。
Nancy Updike Oh my god.
南希·厄普代克 天哪。
So we took him home.
于是我们就带他回家了。
And that's what put us on notice of, oh, right.
这就是让我们注意到的，哦，对了。
Piney had already been trained at that point to obey commands, to sit, to pee outside.
派尼当时已经接受过服从命令、坐下、在外面撒尿的训练。
But he hadn't gotten training especially for aggressive dogs, because they hadn't known he was aggressive.
但他没有接受过专门针对攻击性狗的训练，因为它们不知道他具有攻击性。
So that's what came next.
这就是接下来发生的事情。
Mixed results.
结果好坏参半。
One, two, three, four, five.
一、二、三、四、五。
Nancy Updike What are you counting?
南希·厄普代克 你在数什么？
You're counting people the dog has bitten.
你正在数被狗咬过的人。
I can see where you're counting on your list.
我可以看到你在清单上指望的地方。
Yeah, it's six plus Anaheed.
是的，是六加阿纳希德。
Nancy Updike He's bitten Anaheed?
南希·厄普代克 他咬了阿纳希德？
A couple times.
几次。
It might be more than twice, actually.
实际上，可能会超过两倍。
More than twice.
超过两次。
Ira Glass Yeah, a bunch of times.
Ira Glass 是的，很多次。
He nips each time.
他每次都会咬。
Each time it's a nip, but it does draw blood.
每次都是咬一口，但确实会流血。
I don't know if you're allowed to call it a nip if it draws blood.
我不知道如果它抽血了，你是否可以称之为“咬伤”。
No, bite includes drawing blood.
不，咬伤包括吸血。
Nip is not breaking the skin.
咬合并没有破坏皮肤。
Then we'd have to be in England.
那么我们就必须在英格兰。
We would have to be in a London pub.
我们必须在伦敦的一家酒吧里。
He gave her a bloody nip.
他狠狠地咬了她一口。
Nancy Updike Ira told me I should think of Piney like the Incredible Hulk-- fundamentally good, just high-strung.
南希·厄普代克·艾拉（Nancy Updike Ira）告诉我，我应该把派尼视为绿巨人浩克——本质上是好的，只是高度紧张。
But my understanding of the Hulk is that he only blew up for a very important reasons that were worth building a movie or TV series or comic book around.
但我对绿巨人的理解是，他爆炸只是因为一个非常重要的原因，值得围绕这些原因制作电影、电视剧或漫画书。
Piney goes Hulk during ordinary life circumstances.
派尼在日常生活中变成了绿巨人。
For instance, he feels he has to protect Anaheed from Ira in situations like she's asleep and Ira's awake.
例如，他觉得他必须在阿纳希德睡着而艾拉醒着的情况下保护她免受艾拉的伤害。
That's a daily occurrence.
这是每天都会发生的事情。
Nancy Updike And what does he do to protect her?
南希·厄普代克 他会做什么来保护她？
He'll lunge at me as if to attack me.
他会向我猛扑过来，好像要攻击我一样。
Including this morning, like many mornings, he woke me up at 5:30 in the morning to go out and pee.
包括今天早上，和很多个早晨一样，他早上5点30分就叫醒我出去撒尿。
So I get up, and I put on clothes.
于是我起身，穿上衣服。
And it's cold.
而且天气很冷。
And I put on his leash and his muzzle, and find some plastic bags, and find my keys, and put on shoes, and go down five flights, and take him out.
我给他戴上皮带和口鼻，找到一些塑料袋，找到我的钥匙，穿上鞋子，下了五层楼，把他带了出去。
And he pees.
他撒尿了。
And then I know as soon as we walk back into the apartment, because she's asleep, he'll then turn and try to kill me, or make a show of aggression.
然后我知道，一旦我们走进公寓，因为她睡着了，他就会转身试图杀死我，或者表现出攻击性。
And I always feel like, dude, remember who's your friend.
我总觉得，伙计，记住谁是你的朋友。
We were just peeing together.
我们只是在一起撒尿。
Ira Glass We were just peeing.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 我们刚刚撒尿。
Remember?
记住？
You needed some help.
你需要一些帮助。
I helped you out.
我帮你了。
Remember, we're buddies?
还记得我们是好朋友吗？
And he really can't help it.
而他实在是无能为力。
And then I was just like, generally, all I have to do is say, hey, Piney, where's your toy?
然后我就想，一般来说，我所要做的就是说，嘿，Piney，你的玩具在哪里？
And he thinks, oh, a toy.
他想，哦，一个玩具。
Meaning, let me stop attacking Ira right now and play with this ball.
意思是，让我现在停止攻击艾拉并玩这个球。
Exactly.
确切地。
So if I just have something that he can tug on with if he's acting aggressively, he'll just take it out on the tugging.
因此，如果我有一些东西可以让他在表现出攻击性时用力拉扯，他就会在拉扯时把它拿出来。
When I look in his eyes, in those moments, his eyes are not the "I want to kill you" sort of eyes of a creature that's trying to hurt you.
当我看着他的眼睛时，在那些时刻，他的眼睛并不是那种试图伤害你的生物的“我想杀了你”的眼睛。
His eyes are in the kind of "I can't control myself, please, I feel trapped inside this situation."
他的眼神是那种“我无法控制自己，拜托，我感觉自己被困在这种情况里了。”
It's funny.
很有趣。
I've never thought about how it sounds to you guys, that it sounds like, oh.
我从来没有想过这对你们来说听起来怎么样，听起来就像，哦。
It sounds dangerous, is what you're saying.
听起来很危险，就是你所说的。
Yeah.
是的。
You can't have people come to your apartment.
你不能让人们来到你的公寓。
No one, no friend, nobody you work with, no one has ever seen the inside of your apartment, right?
没有人，没有朋友，没有人与你一起工作，没有人见过你的公寓内部，对吗？
Correct.
正确的。
Yeah, because he would attack anybody who came in.
是的，因为他会攻击任何进来的人。
And then we tried to train it out of him.
然后我们尝试训练他的这种能力。
We had trainers come over to the apartment to do exercises to train that out of him.
我们让训练师来到公寓进行练习，以训练他的这种能力。
But those were not successful.
但这些都没有成功。
And how big a deal is that?
这有什么大不了的？
Ira Glass To me, that's a huge big deal.
Ira Glass 对我来说，这是一件大事。
Because for me, I feel like, well, let's just put him in daycare overnight and have a dinner party.
因为对我来说，我觉得，好吧，让我们把他放在日托中心过夜，然后举办晚宴。
But Anaheed's not so into that.
但阿纳希德对此并不感兴趣。
So for me, that's huge.
所以对我来说，这是巨大的。
I'd like to live an adult life where we could have people over.
我想要过一种可以有人过来的成人生活。
There definitely have been points where we both had a lot of despair about were we going to be able to get him to a point where it was livable comfortably.
肯定有一些时候，我们都对我们是否能够让他达到舒适居住的地步感到非常绝望。
Yeah, we definitely had moments where we both felt like, oh, this feels sort of hopeless.
是的，我们确实有过这样的时刻，我们都觉得，哦，这感觉有点绝望。
Piney shapes Ira's life.
派尼塑造了艾拉的生活。
Ira has less free time than anyone I know.
艾拉的空闲时间比我认识的任何人都少。
And for the last seven years, he's been spending most of it on Piney.
在过去的七年里，他把大部分钱都花在了派尼身上。
I'm sure that's true for Anaheed, too.
我相信阿纳希德也是如此。
Piney's behavioral problems, the time and expense of training and medicine, avoiding situations that could set him off-- all of that is only part of it.
派尼的行为问题、训练和药物的时间和费用、避免可能引发他情绪的情况——所有这些都只是其中的一部分。
Piney also developed, as a young dog, severe allergies and an autoimmune disease that almost killed him twice.
作为一只幼犬，派尼还患上了严重的过敏症和自身免疫性疾病，两次差点夺去了他的生命。
He's got four doctors.
He's got four doctors.
And one of them said to put him on a simple diet-- one starch, one protein, the same starch and protein every day.
其中一个说让他吃简单的饮食——一种淀粉，一种蛋白质，每天同样的淀粉和蛋白质。
So Ira and Anaheed started cooking for Piney.
于是，艾拉和阿纳希德开始为派尼做饭。
Is this more time than you're spending on cooking for yourselves, just as a comparison?
相比之下，这比你自己做饭的时间还多吗？
Yes, completely.
是的，完全如此。
Yeah, totally.
是的，完全可以。
Yeah, most of the cooking in our house is cooking for the dog.
是的，我们家大部分做饭都是给狗做饭的。
The cooking plan has worked.
烹饪计划成功了。
Piney's pretty much OK when he eats this way.
派尼这样吃的时候就没什么问题了。
But then he always develops a new allergy to whatever he's been eating.
但后来他总是对他吃的任何东西产生新的过敏。
And then he's got to switch, from all bison to all pork, to all rabbit, to all tuna, to venison, to ostrich.
然后他必须从全野牛转向全猪肉，全兔子，全金枪鱼，鹿肉，鸵鸟。
Kangaroo was hard, because you can't really buy kangaroo many places.
袋鼠肉很难吃，因为很多地方都买不到袋鼠肉。
And there was a butcher that we could go to, but it was like an hour's ride on the subway away.
我们可以去一家屠夫那里，但距离那里需要坐一个小时的地铁。
And so once every couple weeks, I would get on the subway and ride for an hour and go to this one butcher.
因此，每隔几周，我就会乘坐地铁，乘坐一个小时，去这家屠夫那里。
Sometimes the meat was delivered here.
有时肉被送到这里。
But you're saying sometimes you would go and get it.
但你说有时你会去拿它。
It wasn't flown in.
It wasn't flown in.
There were two different kinds of kangaroo.
有两种不同的袋鼠。
One were these prepackaged veterinary-- there are veterinary services where they'll make up the meals for you.
其中之一是这些预先包装好的兽医——有兽医服务，他们会为你准备膳食。
So since it's a starch and a meat, you can get them made kangaroo and then a starch.
所以既然它是淀粉和肉，你可以先把它们做成袋鼠，然后再做成淀粉。
But in order to give him his pills, which he takes many of, and to give him treats, you would also need just pieces of kangaroo.
但为了给他吃很多药，并给他零食，你也只需要袋鼠肉。
And for that, I would go on the train ride to get the kangaroo.
为此，我会坐火车去找袋鼠。
On the hour-long train ride out to get the kangaroo, and the hour-long train ride back, do you remember that ever being an occasion for--
在乘坐一小时的火车去抓袋鼠，以及乘坐一小时的火车返回时，你是否还记得曾经有过这样的时刻——
Yes.
是的。
Resentment?
怨恨？
Yes.
是的。
Nancy Updike Resentment, questioning-- what would you think about?
南希·厄普代克 怨恨、质疑——你会怎么想？
If I was in a resentful kind of mood, resentment over that would snowball with all the other resentments that I'm feeling.
如果我处于一种怨恨的情绪中，对此的怨恨就会与我所感受到的所有其他怨恨一起滚雪球。
It masses quickly.
It masses quickly.
Each week we have a theme, and all of our resentments will be a different kind of resentment on that theme.
每周我们都有一个主题，而我们所有的怨恨都将是针对该主题的不同类型的怨恨。
Exactly, yeah.
没错，是的。
And then sometimes I would be coming back from-- I would have a public-radio event in some other city.
有时我会从其他城市回来参加公共广播活动。
So I would leave early Saturday and go and do a speech and then come back at the crack of dawn on Sunday morning, fly home, and then on the way back from the airport, have them drop me off at the butcher, where I would pick up the kangaroo and then take my suitcase and the meat and get on the train and drive an hour.
所以我会在周六一早离开，去发表演讲，然后在周日早上黎明时分回来，飞回家，然后在从机场回来的路上，让他们把我送到肉店，在那里我会拿起袋鼠，然后带着我的手提箱和肉，然后坐上火车，开车一个小时。
And it's hard not to feel a little sorry for yourself in that situation, and a little mad about having a dog.
在这种情况下，很难不为自己感到一点遗憾，并且为养狗而感到一点生气。
And you don't feel good about the dog in those moments.
在那些时刻你对狗的感觉不太好。
Or I didn't feel good about having a dog, many, many times.
或者很多很多次我对养狗感到不舒服。
And I understand if people roll their eyes at everything that we're doing.
如果人们对我们所做的一切翻白眼，我也能理解。
If I were to hear of somebody doing what we're doing, I would be the first to roll my eyes.
如果我听到有人做我们正在做的事情，我会第一个翻白眼。
If I hear about people cooking for their dog-- oh my god, what could be more repulsive?
如果我听说有人为他们的狗做饭——天哪，还有什么比这更令人厌恶的呢？
People cooking for their dog.
人们为他们的狗做饭。
That's ridiculous.
这太荒谬了。
And how does that coexist in your brain with cooking for your dog every day?
它如何与每天为你的狗做饭共存于你的大脑中？
Well, I don't have a problem thinking that something I do is laughable or ridiculous.
嗯，我不认为我所做的事情是可笑或可笑的。
You don't want to be that person, but then you are that person.
你不想成为那个人，但你就是那个人。
I was on Reddit answering questions.
我在 Reddit 上回答问题。
And somebody asked about the dog and about what is the dog eating.
有人问起那只狗以及狗吃什么。
And I listed all the different foods.
我列出了所有不同的食物。
And then I said, the logical end of this is that eventually, the only thing left would be human flesh, and Anaheed and I would have to feed ourselves to the dog.
然后我说，逻辑上的结局是，最终，唯一剩下的将是人肉，而阿纳希德和我将不得不把自己喂给狗。
That's the obvious place where the whole thing goes.
这就是整个事情发生的明显地方。
Do you ever feel like that's already happening?
你有没有感觉这已经发生了？
[LAUGHS] Nancy Updike Just in terms of--
[笑]南希·厄普代克只是说——
Yes, I do.
是的，我愿意。
Nancy Updike Time, and effort, and--
南希·厄普代克 时间、精力，还有——
Have you discussed what a limit would be?
您是否讨论过限制是什么？
No. I have fantasies about him not existing.
不，我对他的幻想并不存在。
Like what?
比如什么？
Ira Glass Just that our lives would be so much easier and nicer.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）只是希望我们的生活会变得更加轻松和美好。
Does he bring something to your life?
他给你的生活带来了什么吗？
Is there a good part?
Is there a good part?
Is there pleasure?
Is there pleasure?
Yeah, of course.
是的，当然。
It's not as much pleasure as the amount of work it is.
它并不像工作量那样带来乐趣。
All the pleasures are really corny ones.
所有的乐趣都是老生常谈。
Like it's really sweet to have this animal that trusts no one and is alone in this world except for us.
拥有这种不相信任何人、除了我们之外在这个世界上孤独的动物真的很甜蜜。
And he trusts us.
And he trusts us.
And he's a nervous dog.
他是一只紧张的狗。
And to get him out of his head, and he's just running after a ball, and he's bringing it back.
为了让他摆脱头脑，他只是在追球，然后他就把球带回来了。
And you throw it again, over and over, and he's super happy, like a normal dog-- it's really sweet to see.
当你一次又一次地扔它时，他非常高兴，就像一只普通的狗一样——看到它真的很甜蜜。
It really feels like a triumph.
真的感觉像是一种胜利。
And he's sweet, as a dog.
而且他很可爱，就像一只狗一样。
I love him.
我爱他。
And I love my wife.
And I love my wife.
And it would kill her if we could've kept him alive longer and we didn't do it.
如果我们能让他活得更久但我们没有这么做，她就会丧命。
And that was true so early on that any other premise was unthinkable.
这在很早的时候就是事实，任何其他前提都是不可想象的。
That's why it's not a question.
这就是为什么这不是一个问题。
That's why you can say all this stuff.
这就是为什么你可以说这些话。
And I feel like if you picture a little scale with a balance, it's not even weighing anything on that side of it.
我觉得如果你想象一个带有天平的小秤，它的那一侧甚至没有称重任何东西。
Well, because it's not about the dog.
好吧，因为这与狗无关。
The thing on the other side of the scale is Anaheed, not the dog.
天平另一边的东西是阿纳希德，而不是狗。
I think that's what's hard to understand from the outside is that it seems like, ah, it's about this dog.
我认为从外面很难理解的是，看起来，啊，是关于这只狗的。
But it's about your relationship with your wife.
但这是关于你和你妻子的关系。
But the thing is if Anaheed were to just vanish off the face of the earth, I would still take care of the dog.
但问题是，如果阿纳希德从地球表面消失，我仍然会照顾这只狗。
Years ago, she made me promise that if she were to suddenly die, I would keep the dog alive.
多年前，她让我保证，如果她突然死了，我会让狗活下去。
And at that point, it was kind of like a 50/50 choice, and I said I would as a promise to her.
那时，这有点像一个 50/50 的选择，我说我会这样做，作为对她的承诺。
But now it doesn't matter that I promised her.
但现在我答应她已经不重要了。
I would just do it.
I would just do it.
And what changed?
And what changed?
Ira Glass It's a hard thing to spend so much energy trying to protect a helpless creature, or a helpless person, or anything that's helpless.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：花费如此多的精力来保护一个无助的生物、一个无助的人或任何无助的事物是一件很难的事情。
It's a hard thing to turn that off.
关闭它是一件很难的事情。
Once you've been protecting it, your mind is used to protecting it.
一旦你保护了它，你的思想就会习惯于保护它。
And the thought that you wouldn't protect it just becomes offensive to who you are.
而你不保护它的想法只会变得对你是谁的冒犯。
You can't flip off that part of yourself like it's a light switch.
你无法像关灯开关一样关掉自己的那一部分。
It's interesting that you consider him helpless, though, since he lunges at you every day.
有趣的是，你认为他很无助，因为他每天都会向你扑来。
And you see helplessness behind I think what other people see as aggression.
你会看到背后的无助，我认为其他人将其视为侵略。
Now I see that.
现在我明白了。
Right, but fundamentally in this world, he's 1 foot tall.
是的，但从根本上来说，在这个世界上，他只有 1 英尺高。
He weighs 60 pounds.
他体重 60 磅。
He can't earn any money.
他赚不到钱。
He doesn't speak the English language.
他不会说英语。
I'm in charge.
我负责。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
Like I could have him killed any day.
好像我随时都可能杀了他一样。
Nancy Updike is one of the producers of our program, doing the easiest slash most delicate interview she's ever done for the show.
南希·厄普代克是我们节目的制作人之一，她进行了她为该节目做过的最简单、最微妙的采访。
What are you thinking as you're making that face?
当你做出那个表情时你在想什么？
What is that face?
那张脸是什么？
I'm alarmed that you seem to be, just after all this talk, that you don't seem at all convinced that what we're doing doesn't seem nuts.
令我感到震惊的是，在经历了所有这些谈话之后，您似乎根本不相信我们正在做的事情看起来并不疯狂。
Do you know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
I could understand how it would seem that way before you heard me explain it.
在你听我解释之前我就能理解它看起来会是什么样子。
But now that I've explained it, I feel like you should come over to my side.
但既然我已经解释了，我觉得你应该站到我这边来。
And I can't believe that you haven't.
我不敢相信你没有。
You're saying you did everything right, so how could I be doing this so wrong.
你都说你做的都是对的，那我怎么可能做错了呢？
Yeah.
是的。
[MUSIC - "NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP" BY JERRY BUTLER]
[音乐 - 杰瑞·巴特勒的《永不放弃你》]
Well, today's program was produced by Robyn Semien, with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Sarah Koenig, Jonathan Menjivar, Lisa Pollak, Brian Reed, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天的节目由 Robyn Semien 制作，与 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Sarah Koenig、Jonathan Menjivar、Lisa Pollak、Brian Reed、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 一起制作。
Our senior producer's Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人朱莉·斯奈德。
Production help from Tarek Fouda.
Tarek Fouda 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our production manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。
Elise Bergerson's our administrative assistant.
埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的行政助理。
Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddis.
Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddis 提供音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
[致谢]《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our program by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia, who just got the results from his annual psych evaluation.
我们的老板 Torey Malatia 先生对我们的项目进行了 WBEZ 管理监督，他刚刚得到了年度心理评估的结果。
Those who think of me as a sociopath continue to think of me that way.
那些认为我是反社会者的人仍然这样认为我。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。