478: Red State Blue State - This American Life

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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #478 | November 2, 2012 478: Red State Blue State Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 478 集 | 2012 年 11 月 2 日 478：红州 蓝州 注意：This American Life 是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。

If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.

如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。

Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue Ira Glass I agreed not to say this guy's name on the radio or the name of the small town that he's from, though he gave me a driving tour.

序言 艾拉·格拉斯 我同意不在广播中说出这个人的名字或他来自的小镇的名字，尽管他带我开车游览了一番。

OK, now we're entering the great city of blank.

好啦，现在我们要进入伟大的空白之城了。

So will you do, like, snazzy editing to make sure that I don't reveal?

那么你会做一些时髦的编辑来确保我不会泄露吗？

Because I may accidentally, just as I'm talking.

因为我可能不小心，就在我说话的时候。

Yeah.

是的。

Now, we're sitting here in your car.

现在，我们坐在你的车里。

How scared are you that somebody's going to see us together?

你有多害怕有人看到我们在一起？

I'm not very scared about that.

我对此并不是很害怕。

One thing, I'm driving in my mom's car, so it's not the car that they would expect to see me in.

有一件事，我开的是我妈妈的车，所以这不是他们希望看到我开的车。

It's a Southern town, fewer than 2,000 people-- single-story homes, trucking companies, lots of cows, lots of churches.

这是一个南方小镇，人口不到 2000 人——有平房、卡车运输公司、很多牛、很多教堂。

This guy doesn't want me to reveal who he is because he is a Democrat, and it's a secret in this overwhelmingly Republican town-- a very Christian, Fox-news-watching, Rush-Limbaugh-listening, evolution-disbelieving kind of town, the sort of town, he says, where most people think that if America doesn't change its course, with all of its abortions and gay marriages--

这家伙不想让我透露他是谁，因为他是一名民主党人，而这在这个共和党占绝大多数的小镇上是一个秘密——一个非常基督教化的小镇，看福克斯新闻，听拉什·林博，不相信进化论，他说，在这种小镇，大多数人认为，如果美国不改变它的路线，所有的堕胎和同性婚姻——

--either God will destroy America, or He'll have to reanimate Sodom and Gomorrah and apologize to them.

——要么上帝毁灭美国，要么他必须复活所多玛和蛾摩拉并向他们道歉。

If I had a dollar for every time that I've heard that, we would be going around in a convertible right now.

如果我每次听到这句话都能得到一美元，我们现在就会开一辆敞篷车到处走走。

Wait.

等待。

I've never heard that.

我从来没有听说过。

God would reanimate Sodom and Gomorrah and apologize?

上帝会复活所多玛和蛾摩拉并道歉吗？

Yeah, because He destroyed them for their sin and iniquity.

是的，因为他因他们的罪恶和罪孽而毁灭了他们。

And we're just as bad as Sodom and Gomorrah as far as they're concerned.

就他们而言，我们就像所多玛和蛾摩拉一样糟糕。

He grew up in this town, believing all these things, but he doesn't believe them anymore-- the politics or the religion.

他在这个小镇长大，相信所有这些事情，但他不再相信它们——政治或宗教。

And we're in a period in this country that lots of places-- in red states and in blue states-- people hear your politics, hear that they're different than theirs, and they don't think, well, we just disagree-- they think, you want to destroy this country and everything I believe in.

我们正处于这个国家的一个时期，很多地方——在红州和蓝州——人们听到你们的政治，听说他们与他们的不同，他们不认为，好吧，我们只是不同意——他们认为，你想摧毁这个国家和我所信仰的一切。

In 2008, a close friend of his, a guy he sees in church several times a week, got a whiff, a hint of his political feelings.

2008 年，他的一位密友（他每周都会去教堂几次）闻到了一丝政治情感。

And he was just kind of taken aback and looked at me with wide eyes.

他只是有点吃惊，睁大眼睛看着我。

And he said, you're voting for Obama, aren't you?

他说，你会投票给奥巴马，不是吗？

And just the way he said that, it seemed like a scary question to answer.

从他的说法来看，这似乎是一个很难回答的问题。

And so I didn't really answer, but that was answer enough.

所以我并没有真正回答，但这已经足够了。

And we didn't talk for maybe three months after that.

此后大约三个月我们都没有说话。

That kind of frightened me, just that reaction.

那种反应让我感到害怕。

It frightened him into not wanting it to happen again.

这让他害怕，不希望这样的事情再次发生。

The guy in church agreed to keep his secret.

教堂里的那个人同意保守他的秘密。

And while this Democrat is somebody who everybody in town knows and most everybody likes-- he's this chatty friendly guy-- most people have no idea.

虽然这位民主党人是镇上每个人都认识并且大多数人都喜欢的人——他是个健谈友好的人——但大多数人都不知道。

He doesn't tell them because first, he has a business, and he doesn't want to lose customers.

他没有告诉他们，因为首先，他有生意，他不想失去客户。

And second-- and here's how far this goes.

其次——这就是这件事的进展。

I know how crazy this is going to sound-- he is an elected official, a city councilman.

我知道这听起来有多疯狂——他是一名民选官员，一名市议员。

This town is so small that you don't have to declare a party when you run.

这个小镇很小，你跑步时不必宣布聚会。

And it's all budgets and basic services, so partisanship doesn't come up.

而且都是预算和基本服务，所以不会出现党派之争。

So his constituents don't know.

所以他的选民不知道。

I do find myself lying sometimes.

我有时确实发现自己在撒谎。

But I honestly do try and not lie.

但老实说，我确实尽力不撒谎。

I try and just let them assume.

我试着让他们假设。

And that has a great-- which is, I know in its way-- lie.

这有一个巨大的——我知道它的方式——谎言。

But the most I can do that, I try.

但我最多只能尝试一下。

And people assume-- especially if somebody likes you or they think that you're smart-- they assume that you agree with what they think.

人们会假设——特别是如果有人喜欢你或者他们认为你很聪明——他们会假设你同意他们的想法。

That's a natural human thing, right?

这是人类的自然现象，对吗？

Like, I assume that you're an agnostic liberal.

就像，我假设你是一个不可知论的自由主义者。

Thanks a lot.

多谢。

Male Speaker Yeah, you're welcome.

男发言人 是的，不客气。

He says with the election coming, he finds himself biting his tongue a lot more.

他说，随着选举的临近，他发现自己更加咬紧牙关。

It's harder on him as a secret blue sympathizer.

作为一个秘密的蓝色同情者，这对他来说更加困难。

And we talked about this for a long time.

我们讨论了很长时间。

Wasn't he just being a coward, not being more honest with people?

他不就是个胆小鬼，对人不诚实吗？

Wasn't he kind of giving up on people, believing that they were going to drop him if they knew his politics.

他不是有点放弃人们，相信如果他们了解他的政治观点，他们就会抛弃他。

I mean, it's funny because this is what's supposed to be so great about this country, is that we can believe real different things and get along fine-- do community activities together, do stuff together, be friends-- I mean, that's what's supposed to be so great about America.

我的意思是，这很有趣，因为这就是这个国家应该如此伟大的地方，就是我们可以相信真正不同的事情并且相处得很好——一起做社区活动，一起做事，成为朋友——我的意思是，这就是美国应该如此伟大的地方。

And do you believe that's true?

你相信这是真的吗？

I mean, I know that's the theory, but do you think that's true?

我的意思是，我知道这是理论，但你认为这是真的吗？

As we here at This American Life talked about next week's election and what we wanted to cover here on the air about it, we found ourselves thinking about and distressed over these past few months-- it was the incredible gap between the two sides right now, between red and blue.

当我们在《美国生活》节目中谈论下周的选举以及我们想在广播中报道的内容时，我们发现自己在过去的几个月里思考并感到苦恼——这是目前两党之间、红蓝之间令人难以置信的差距。

It's not just that they have different solutions to the country's problems.

这不仅仅是他们对国家问题有不同的解决方案。

They don't even agree on what the problems are.

他们甚至对于问题所在也没有达成一致。

Entire scandals are covered for weeks in the right-wing media that people on the left barely even know about.

整个丑闻在右翼媒体上报道了数周，而左翼人士几乎不知道。

Crises that are a given on the left, like climate change, aren't even acknowledged as real by so many on the right-- with lots of people on each side seeing the other side as stupid, ill-formed, a menace-- it's frightening.

左翼固有的危机，比如气候变化，甚至没有被那么多右翼人士承认是真实的——双方都有很多人认为对方是愚蠢的、不合时宜的、是一种威胁——这很可怕。

That's how far it has gone.

这就是它已经走了多远。

So today, we are spending this hour looking at these two different versions of the world-- red America and blue America-- trying to understand what it is doing to people to be living this way now.

因此，今天，我们花一小时的时间来观察这两个不同版本的世界——红色美国和蓝色美国——试图了解人们现在的生活方式对他们造成了什么影响。

From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.

这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Stick around, huh?

留下来吧？

Act One, "I Know You Are, But What Am I?" So the idea for this show began really with a question-- the divisiveness in our country, the fact that things are so polarized, to what degree is it pushing people apart in their personal lives, messing with friendships, straining family relations?

第一幕，“我知道你是，但我是什么？”所以这个节目的想法实际上是从一个问题开始的——我们国家的分裂，事情如此两极分化，它在多大程度上使人们在个人生活中分裂，扰乱友谊，使家庭关系紧张？

To answer that, in addition to all the normal reporterly things that a person does, with the help of American Public Media's Public Insight Network, we sent out a questionnaire.

为了回答这个问题，除了一个人所做的所有正常报道工作外，在美国公共媒体公共洞察网络的帮助下，我们发出了一份调查问卷。

Over 500 people responded from every part of the political spectrum.

来自各个政治领域的 500 多人做出了回应。

Lisa Pollak explains what we learned.

丽莎·波拉克 (Lisa Pollak) 解释了我们所了解到的情况。

Before we get to the discouraging parts of the story-- the estranged friends, the embittered relatives, the casual comparison of the other guy's party to the Nazis-- I want to pause for a moment and pay tribute to a group of people who don't get a lot of press these days.

在我们开始讲述故事中令人沮丧的部分——疏远的朋友、怨恨的亲戚、随意将对方的政党与纳粹进行比较——之前，我想暂停一下，向一群现在没有太多媒体报道的人致敬。

I'm talking about the people who wrote us to say that their red-blue relationships have not only survived this election season but are as amicable and harmonious as ever.

我指的是那些写信给我们的人，他们说他们的红蓝关系不仅在这个选举季得以幸存，而且一如既往地友好和谐。

No one seemed happier than the self-described Democrat bordering on Socialist married to a Libertarian-minded Republican who wrote, quote, "Our discussions are rarely heated or unpleasant and our ability to have a conversation where we have differing points of view has actually strengthened the relationship." Kudos to them and to all of you who've managed to do what our lawmakers haven't.

似乎没有人比这位自称接近社会主义的民主党人与一位具有自由意志主义思想的共和党人结婚更幸福，他写道，“我们的讨论很少激烈或不愉快，我们能够在有不同观点的情况下进行对话，实际上加强了我们的关系。”向他们和你们所有人表示敬意，他们成功地做到了我们的立法者没有做到的事情。

But this story isn't about you, nor is it about the people who told us they avoid the subject of politics entirely, the "don't ask, don't tell" method of keeping the peace.

但这个故事不是关于你的，也不是关于那些告诉我们他们完全回避政治主题的人，即“不问、不说”的维持和平方法。

This story is about the people who did ask and did tell and suffered the consequences, people like Frank Mills, a Democrat, and Ron Sexton, a Republican.

这个故事是关于那些确实提出要求、确实讲述并承受后果的人，比如民主党人弗兰克·米尔斯(Frank Mills)和共和党人罗恩·塞克斯顿(Ron Sexton)。

Frank and Ron met at work decades ago, and their families became friends too.

弗兰克和罗恩几十年前在工作中相识，他们的家人也成为了朋友。

They live in different cities now, but a couple times a year, after their wives caught up on the phone, the guys would get on the line and talk politics.

他们现在住在不同的城市，但每年都会有几次，在他们的妻子接到电话后，这些家伙会挂上电话谈论政治。

We talked about policy, we talked about the issues, and we would talk for hours.

我们谈论政策，我们谈论问题，我们会聊几个小时。

The phone would go dead.

电话就会没电了。

I'd have to get another phone.

我得再买一部电话。

The battery ran down.

电池没电了。

They didn't talk about the day-to-day stuff of elections and candidates, Frank said, as much as political philosophies and big ideas.

弗兰克说，他们没有谈论选举和候选人的日常事务，而是谈论政治哲学和伟大想法。

It was never settled.

这件事一直没有解决。

You have your opinion, I have my opinion, and this is the way it is, and I'll call you next time.

你有你的意见，我有我的意见，就这样了，下次再给你打电话。

So it was good?

那么这很好吗？

It was a good relationship?

本来关系就很好？

But then, a few years ago, they were talking on the phone.

但几年前，他们通过电话交谈。

And Ron urged Frank to support a Republican candidate for Congress.

罗恩敦促弗兰克支持共和党国会候选人。

Frank balked.

弗兰克犹豫不决。

Didn't Ron know he supported Democrats?

罗恩难道不知道他支持民主党吗？

And he said, who did you vote for for president?

他说，你投票给谁当总统？

And I said, I voted for Obama.

我说，我投票给奥巴马。

And then he said, you must be a Socialist.

然后他说，你一定是社会主义者。

No, seriously.

不，说真的。

You must be a Socialist.

你一定是社会主义者。

And I said, how can you make that assumption?

我说，你怎么能做出这样的假设呢？

He says, well, you voted for Obama.

他说，好吧，你投票给了奥巴马。

He's a socialist, and therefore you are.

他是社会主义者，因此你也是。

And then I took it as if he had called me a dirty name.

然后我就觉得他好像骂了我脏话。

And we got into an argument.

我们发生了争执。

And then after a while, he said, well, I'm writing you off my list, Frank.

过了一会儿，他说，好吧，我要把你从我的名单中删除，弗兰克。

Don't ever talk to me again.

永远不要再跟我说话。

You're no longer a friend of mine, is how that conversation ended.

你不再是我的朋友了，谈话就这样结束了。

Weeks passed, and to Frank, things didn't feel right.

几周过去了，弗兰克感觉事情不太对劲。

So he decided to try again.

于是他决定再试一次。

I called him, and I said, can we restart all these conversations we've had over the years?

我打电话给他，我说，我们可以重新开始这些年来的所有对话吗？

I don't want to lose you as a friend.

我不想失去你这个朋友。

If I offended you, I'm sorry.

如果我冒犯了你，我很抱歉。

He would not accept that at all.

他根本不接受这一点。

At that point, I retaliated.

那一刻，我进行了报复。

I said, OK, if you've written me off, I'm writing you off.

我说，好吧，如果你不理我了，我也就不理你了。

You won't hear from me again.

你不会再收到我的消息了。

He's funny, he's got a good intellect, but he cannot look me in the eye and have any credibility with me describing Obama the way he does.

他很有趣，很有才智，但他无法直视我的眼睛，对我描述奥巴马的方式没有任何可信度。

It probably won't surprise you to hear that Ron and Frank don't remember all the details of this story the same way.

如果您听说罗恩和弗兰克对这个故事的所有细节的记忆方式不同，您可能不会感到惊讶。

Ron says he doesn't recall telling Frank never to call again.

罗恩说他不记得告诉弗兰克不要再打电话了。

But when I brought up the S word, Ron didn't hesitate.

但当我提起“S”这个词时，罗恩没有犹豫。

Frank recalls you calling him a Socialist.

弗兰克记得你称他为社会主义者。

Absolutely.

绝对地。

And I did, and I still believe it.

我做到了，而且我仍然相信这一点。

When Frank takes umbrage at the fact that I called him a Socialist, what he doesn't understand or doesn't accept is that he is in love with a Socialist.

当弗兰克对我称他为社会主义者感到不满时，他不理解或不接受的是他爱上了一个社会主义者。

This man that's in the White House is the most brilliant president we've ever had for Frank Mills and others like some of his friends.

对于弗兰克·米尔斯和他的一些朋友等其他人来说，白宫里的这个人是我们有史以来最杰出的总统。

And Lisa, it offends me to hear that while we're going down the tubes.

丽莎，当我们在地铁里听到这个消息时，我感到很生气。

He says his feelings were hurt.

他说他的感情受到了伤害。

Why not just agree to disagree and put those differences aside?

为什么不只是同意不同意见并将这些分歧放在一边呢？

Why is that hard?

为什么这么难？

I would lay it on this-- the stakes are too high to consider it simply as agree to disagree.

我想说的是——赌注太高，不能简单地将其视为同意或不同意。

I don't agree to disagree.

我不同意不同意。

Frank needs to change his opinion because his view on the conduct of this society will kill it.

弗兰克需要改变他的观点，因为他对这个社会行为的看法会毁了它。

For a friendship to end, this is all you need-- one person who feels like the stakes are too high to ignore or that your friend's vote will personally harm you.

为了结束一段友谊，你所需要的就是——一个人觉得赌注太高，不容忽视，或者你朋友的投票会对你个人造成伤害。

A few months ago, a man named Navi Singh was so distraught that he did a Google search on three words-- friendship ruined in politics.

几个月前，一位名叫纳维·辛格（Navi Singh）的男子心烦意乱，他在谷歌上搜索了三个词——友谊毁于政治。

And given the mood these days, it didn't take long for him to find a blog where people were discussing the subject.

考虑到这几天的心情，他没过多久就找到了一个博客，人们正在讨论这个话题。

And in the comments, he told strangers his story.

在评论中，他向陌生人讲述了他的故事。

That's where I found him.

那是我找到他的地方。

Navi has a blood disease that requires monthly transfusions.

纳维患有血液病，需要每月输血。

And recently, he tried to buy insurance and was turned down everywhere because of his pre-existing condition.

而最近，他试图购买保险，却因原有病症而到处被拒绝。

After that, Navi began to see next week's election as a matter of life and death.

此后，纳维开始将下周的选举视为生死攸关的问题。

He considers Obamacare his lifeline, and he doesn't trust Mitt Romney.

他认为奥巴马医改是他的生命线，而且他不信任米特·罗姆尼。

Navi has a Republican friend, and in past years, he never cared who his friend voted for.

纳维有一位共和党朋友，在过去的几年里，他从不关心他的朋友投票给谁。

But this year, he wanted his friend to take a side, vote Obama.

但今年，他希望他的朋友站在一边，投票给奥巴马。

But when he tried to explain this, he got nowhere.

但当他试图解释这一点时，却一无所获。

I mean, no matter what kind of evidence I showed him and all of the rejection letters I showed him, and then he's like, OK, I see that.

我的意思是，无论我向他展示什么样的证据以及我向他展示的所有拒绝信，然后他都会说，好吧，我明白了。

I see that.

我明白了。

But in the end, you obviously know I'm still voting for Romney.

但最后，你显然知道我仍然投票给罗姆尼。

I'm still voting for Romney.

我仍然投票给罗姆尼。

And it hurt.

这很痛。

It really hurt.

真的很痛。

I know he probably didn't mean to, but in a way, the only way you can take it as a friend is this person doesn't value your life.

我知道他可能不是故意的，但在某种程度上，你能把它当作朋友的唯一方式就是这个人不珍惜你的生命。

He sees it, and he kind of nods his head, yeah, that's a shame.

他看到了，点点头，是的，这太可惜了。

But in the end, he'll still vote that way.

但最终，他仍然会那样投票。

I said, I can't do this anymore.

我说，我不能再这样了。

He called me one time and was like, let's go out and hang out.

有一次他打电话给我，说我们出去玩吧。

I was like, you know what?

我当时想，你知道吗？

I don't even enjoy myself with you anymore.

我什至不再享受和你在一起的时光了。

This election is so personal, and I've down everything.

这次选举是如此个人化，我已经放弃了一切。

If you're valuing me as a friend, you would understand this.

如果你把我当作朋友，你就会理解这一点。

And you know, then, I was like, oh, forget it.

然后你知道，我就想，哦，算了吧。

I mean, he didn't want the friendship to end.

我的意思是，他不想结束友谊。

I'm the one who ended it.

我是结束这一切的人。

I'm the enemy.

我是敌人。

I'm what's wrong with this world.

我就是这个世界出了什么问题。

This is Erik Shetney from Minneapolis.

我是来自明尼阿波利斯的埃里克·谢特尼。

As a red in a blue city, he says he's used to liberal colleagues reducing him to a cliche.

作为蓝色城市中的红色人，他说他已经习惯了自由派同事把他贬低为陈词滥调。

I'm opposed to the middle class.

我反对中产阶级。

I am completely supportive of the concept of a robber baron, almost from the Gilded Age in the 1890s, that I am all about making rich people richer.

我完全支持强盗大亨的概念，几乎来自 1890 年代的镀金时代，我的一切都是为了让富人变得更富有。

And I think it's acceptable to do this at the expense of poor people who consume government services.

我认为以牺牲消费政府服务的穷人为代价来做到这一点是可以接受的。

A lot of Democrats just assume I don't understand the issues and if only I was better educated on them, I would believe like they do.

许多民主党人只是认为我不理解这些问题，如果我受过更好的教育，我就会像他们一样相信。

That's a woman I'll call Anne.

我称她为安妮。

Last year she heard about an opening in a friend's hiking group and asked to join only to be told by her friend in front of a group of other friends that she wouldn't be welcome because she was a Republican.

去年，她听说朋友的远足团体有空缺，并要求加入，但她的朋友当着一群其他朋友的面告诉她，因为她是共和党人，所以不受欢迎。

It was one of those horrible, awkward moments where just the room went quiet.

这是那些可怕而尴尬的时刻之一，房间里一片安静。

In their minds or her mind, Republicans are all that's wrong with the world.

在他们或她的心目中，共和党人就是世界上所有的问题。

The most creative rejection of a friend's politics I heard was this-- a man named Drew wrote to say that he got an ultimatum from his friend, Ryan.

我听到的对朋友政治的最有创意的拒绝是这样的——一个名叫德鲁的人写信说他收到了他的朋友瑞安的最后通牒。

The two guys are married to sisters and hang out together all the time.

这两个人是姐妹结婚了，总是在一起闲逛。

But if Drew votes for Obama, Ryan has put him on notice.

但如果德鲁投票给奥巴马，瑞安就会引起他的注意。

There will be consequences.

会有后果的。

Drew explains.

德鲁解释道。

If you vote for Obama, you're cut off.

如果你投票给奥巴马，你就被切断了。

You can still come over to our house and eat, but when I cook ribs, you can bring your own chicken breast and use the grill after I'm done.

你仍然可以来我们家吃饭，但是当我做排骨时，你可以带上自己的鸡胸肉，并在我做完后使用烤架。

And at first I thought he was just kidding around, but he's made it clear that he's absolutely serious.

起初我以为他只是在开玩笑，但他明确表示他是认真的。

And I appealed to his wife, and she said, well, I got to stand with my husband.

我向他的妻子求助，她说，好吧，我必须和我的丈夫站在一起。

Wait.

等待。

He was totally serious that you couldn't eat his barbecue if you voted for Obama?

他是认真的，如果你投票给奥巴马，你就不能吃他的烧烤？

Absolutely serious.

绝对严重。

Ryan Yep, he's got to cook his own meat for the next four years.

Ryan 是的，在接下来的四年里他必须自己做饭。

This is Ryan.

这是瑞安。

Ryan I know he loves my barbecue so much.

瑞安（Ryan）我知道他非常喜欢我的烧烤。

And I was thinking one day.

有一天我在想。

You know, I've tried to explain to Drew why he shouldn't vote Democratic, but I can't get through to him.

你知道，我试图向德鲁解释为什么他不应该投票给民主党，但我无法联系到他。

So now I'm going to do a little negative reinforcement.

所以现在我要做一些负强化。

And if he votes for him, I'm just not going to let him eat here.

如果他投票给他，我就不会让他在这里吃饭。

And my wife makes salad or garlic bread or beans-- he can have that.

我妻子做沙拉、大蒜面包或豆子——他可以吃。

He just cannot eat my meat-- my tri-tip, my ribs, my pulled pork, my brisket, I make a wonderful prime rib sandwich-- he can't have any of that.

他就是不能吃我的肉——我的三尖肉、我的排骨、我的手撕猪肉、我的牛胸肉，我做了一个很棒的肋骨三明治——他都不能吃这些。

For two sides that sometimes seem to be living in completely different realities, it's amazing how many of the reds and blues I talked to express the exact same feelings about each other in the exact same words.

对于有时似乎生活在完全不同现实中的两方来说，令人惊讶的是，我所说的许多红色和蓝色用完全相同的词语表达了对彼此完全相同的感受。

In fact, I could tell the relationship was probably on the rocks when the interview included at least one of the following elements.

事实上，当采访至少包含以下其中一项内容时，我就可以看出双方的关系可能已经岌岌可危。

One, total incomprehension about the other person's beliefs.

第一，完全不理解对方的信仰。

I couldn't believe somebody could actually really think that.

我简直不敢相信有人真的这么想。

Like, I don't even know who you are anymore.

就像，我什至不知道你是谁了。

He can't truly feel the way he feels.

他无法真正感受到他的感受。

There's absolutely no way.

完全没有办法啊

Two, a declaration of one's superior powers of open-mindedness.

二、以开放的心态宣示自己的超凡能力。

Liberals in general are more open to another person's point of view than conservatives are.

一般来说，自由主义者比保守主义者更愿意接受他人的观点。

The Democrats I know tend to be much more lockstep-- this is the right way.

我认识的民主党人往往更加步调一致——这是正确的方式。

I don't even think she's even tried to look at my beliefs.

我什至认为她根本没有尝试过审视我的信仰。

And I can't say that I have tried that hard to look at hers.

我不能说我已经尽力去看她的了。

No. No, not at all.

不，不，一点也不。

And in his defense, I mean, a lot of times, I kinda tune him out too.

在他的辩护中，我的意思是，很多时候，我也有点不理睬他。

And finally, four, yes, inevitably, references to the Nazis.

最后，是的，不可避免地有四次提及纳粹。

I don't care how long Ayers teaches at the University of Chicago.

我不在乎艾尔斯在芝加哥大学任教多久。

To deny Ayers' violence toward the United States of America is to deny that Eichmann had anything to do with the mass murders of Jews.

否认艾尔斯对美利坚合众国的暴力行为就等于否认艾希曼与大规模屠杀犹太人有任何关系。

It was like a Jewish person voting for Hitler.

这就像一个犹太人投票支持希特勒。

If the Nazi party were in power, are we going to compromise with them just because they're half of the country?

如果纳粹党掌权，我们会仅仅因为他们是半个国家就向他们妥协吗？

I know that I have just made an analogy between the Republican Party and the Nazis.

我知道我刚才把共和党和纳粹做了类比。

I understand that.

我明白这一点。

Of all the situations I heard about, this next one stumped me most because both people wanted things to be different between them.

在我听说的所有情况中，下一个最让我困惑，因为两个人都希望他们之间的事情有所不同。

But it was hard to fathom how they possibly could be.

但很难理解它们怎么可能是这样。

Janet, a conservative from Kentucky, wrote us about her sister.

来自肯塔基州的保守派珍妮特给我们写了一封关于她姐姐的信。

She and I have been close, and I've been able to talk to her and stuff.

她和我关系很亲密，我能够和她交谈之类的。

I don't talk to her much anymore.

我不再和她说话了。

I don't call her because I'm afraid something will come up and we'll get mad at each other.

我不打电话给她，因为我担心会发生什么事，我们会互相生气。

And so we just kind of avoid talking to each other.

所以我们只是避免互相交谈。

Probably within the last month, I thought, well, I'll just call Suzie and talk to her.

大概在上个月，我想，好吧，我就打电话给苏西，和她谈谈。

And then I'm like, nah, I'd best not.

然后我想，不，我最好不要。

About nothing important, just to call and say, I tried a new recipe.

没什么重要的事情，只是打电话来说，我尝试了一个新食谱。

You want to hear how it went?

你想听听事情进展如何吗？

Just any of that kind of stuff.

只是任何这样的东西。

Janet's active in the Republican Party, though she considers herself more of a Libertarian.

珍妮特在共和党中很活跃，尽管她认为自己更像是一个自由主义者。

She attended the 9/12 taxpayers' march on Washington a few years back.

几年前，她参加了华盛顿的 9/12 纳税人游行。

Her sister Susan is a Democrat.

她的妹妹苏珊是民主党人。

Last spring, they went on a trip together and Obamacare came up.

去年春天，他们一起去旅行，奥巴马医改就出现了。

I mean, it just turned into a yelling match.

我的意思是，这只是一场大喊大叫的比赛。

And it didn't take but half a second.

而且只花了半秒钟。

It was more like, somebody's got to do something.

更像是，有人必须做某事。

And it's, well, OK, do something, but this is not the thing to do.

嗯，好吧，做点什么，但这不是要做的事情。

Well, you don't care.

好吧，你不在乎。

You want all these people to die.

你希望所有这些人都死掉。

And it just devolved so quickly.

而且它的发展速度如此之快。

She and Susan always had different politics, but after Obama got elected, it was hard to talk about that stuff without fighting.

她和苏珊总是有不同的政治观点，但奥巴马当选后，很难不吵架地谈论这些事情。

If I say anything, oh, you're a bigot.

如果我说什么，哦，你就是个偏执狂。

You just don't like him because he's black.

你只是因为他是黑人而不喜欢他。

And those kind of things are hurtful.

这类事情是有害的。

And so I just get mad that she can't see what he's doing to this country.

所以我很生气，因为她看不到他对这个国家做了什么。

And I guess she gets mad at me that she thinks everybody ought to have a handout.

我猜她对我很生气，因为她认为每个人都应该得到施舍。

I don't know when it's gotten this bad.

我不知道什么时候变得这么糟糕了。

When I called Susan, she sounded just as frustrated as her sister.

当我打电话给苏珊时，她听起来和她姐姐一样沮丧。

I'm probably the worst one of the problem we have.

我可能是我们遇到的问题中最严重的一个。

It's probably mostly me because her dogmatic ideology just drives me insane.

可能主要是我，因为她教条主义的意识形态简直让我发疯。

I'm not trying to hurt her feelings.

我并不是想伤害她的感情。

I don't want to hurt her feelings.

我不想伤害她的感情。

I just can't believe what comes out of her mouth.

我简直不敢相信从她嘴里说出来的话。

Susan told me she wished she and Janet could talk-- really talk and try to understand each other.

苏珊告诉我，她希望她和珍妮特能够交谈——真正地交谈并尝试互相理解。

But she couldn't see how that was going to happen, and I didn't either.

但她不明白这是如何发生的，我也不明白。

And then I heard this.

然后我听到了这个。

Coming up after the news, a conservative, a liberal, and a search for common ground.

新闻发布后，一个保守派，一个自由派，并寻求共同点。

Today's guests don't agree on many things, but at least they develop the ability to talk to each other and even disagree while still being pleasant.

今天的客人在很多事情上意见不一致，但至少他们培养了互相交谈的能力，甚至在表达不同意见的同时仍然保持愉快。

Phil Neisser, the liberal, and Jacob Hess, the conservative, even wrote a book together based on their method for dialogue.

自由派菲尔·奈瑟和保守派雅各布·赫斯甚至根据他们的对话方法共同写了一本书。

It's called, You're Not as Crazy as I Thought, But You're Still Wrong.

它的名字叫《你没有我想象的那么疯狂，但你还是错了》。

If you're feeling a bit skeptical about this lead-in, let me assure you, I was too.

如果您对这个导入感到有点怀疑，请让我向您保证，我也是。

But the book isn't a gimmick, and its authors aren't the hand-holding, political moderates you might expect.

但这本书并不是一个噱头，它的作者也不是你想象中的掌权的政治温和派。

Jacob's a devout Mormon, pro-life, very conservative on most issues.

雅各布是一名虔诚的摩门教徒，反对堕胎，在大多数问题上都非常保守。

Phil's a die-hard liberal, an atheist, pro-choice.

菲尔是一位顽固的自由主义者、无神论者、支持堕胎的人。

The kind of dialogue that Phil and Jacob are encouraging isn't about compromise.

菲尔和雅各布鼓励的对话不是妥协。

It isn't touchy-feely, but it's also not like debate.

这并不敏感，但也不像辩论。

In fact, for it to work, they say, you have to back off of the main goal most people have in political conversations-- persuading the other person to think like you do.

事实上，他们说，为了让它发挥作用，你必须放弃大多数人在政治对话中的主要目标——说服对方像你一样思考。

Instead, you focus on trying to understand what the person believes and why he or she believes it.

相反，你专注于试图理解这个人相信什么以及他或她为什么相信这一点。

The other person does the same for you.

另一个人也会为你做同样的事情。

Phil and Jacob say that for them, this led to difficult, uncomfortable conversations, but they ended up viewing each other more generously.

菲尔和雅各布说，对他们来说，这导致了艰难、不舒服的谈话，但他们最终更加宽容地看待彼此。

I wanted to see this in action, so I arranged for the two sisters, Janet and Susan, to get on a conference call with Phil and Jacob and try out some of their techniques.

我想看到这一点，所以我安排珍妮特和苏珊两姐妹与菲尔和雅各布进行电话会议，并尝试他们的一些技术。

They agreed to let me listen in and record the conversation.

他们同意让我听并记录谈话。

But the night before this was supposed to happen, Janet, the conservative sister, got cold feet.

但就在这一切发生的前一天晚上，保守的妹妹珍妮特却临阵退缩了。

She left a message that she was backing out, that she feared she'd say something she couldn't take back.

她留下了一条消息，表示她要退出，她担心自己会说出一些无法收回的话。

So I convinced her to get on the phone without Susan and hear what the dialogue guys had to say.

所以我说服她在没有苏珊的情况下打电话，听听对话人员要说的话。

Right off the bat, Janet admitted that her goal with her sister was exactly the opposite of Phil and Jacob's.

珍妮特立即承认，她与姐姐的目标与菲尔和雅各布的目标完全相反。

I was looking for the conversation to fix her and make her understand what's wrong with her thinking.

我正在寻找谈话来修复她并让她明白她的想法出了什么问题。

Aha, There's the rub.

啊哈，问题就在这里。

Janet That's probably half the goal.

珍妮特 这可能是目标的一半。

The three of them talked for an hour.

三人聊了一个小时。

She tried to explain why it was so hard for her to accept her sister's views.

她试图解释为什么她很难接受姐姐的观点。

Here she is with Phil, the liberal.

她和自由派菲尔在一起。

I guess I see most liberals as being selfish, and she's not selfish.

我想我认为大多数自由主义者都是自私的，而她并不自私。

And so that's what makes me so aggravated is that these liberals can be so selfish, and she's not one.

所以让我如此恼怒的是这些自由主义者可以如此自私，而她不是其中之一。

And I'm just like, you're not that heartless.

我只是想，你没那么无情。

You cannot be there.

你不能在那里。

Where do you get the idea that liberals are selfish?

你从哪里得知自由主义者是自私的？

I'm curious.

我很好奇。

Because they don't want to do anything to take care of people.

因为他们不想做任何事来照顾人。

They just want somebody else to.

他们只是想让别人这么做。

They want the government to.

他们希望政府这么做。

And she doesn't.

但她没有。

She's just so giving and loving, and she'll give anybody the shirt off her back and the shoes off her feet.

她是如此的付出和爱心，她会把她背上的衬衫和脚上的鞋子送给任何人。

I want to tell you a little bit about how it is I approach Jacob.

我想告诉你一些关于我是如何接近雅各布的。

The vision was, I'll bet you he's not selfish.

我们的愿景是，我敢打赌他并不自私。

I'll bet you he's not greedy.

我敢打赌他并不贪婪。

I think most people in the whole world are not selfish, they're not greedy.

我认为世界上大多数人并不自私，也不贪婪。

Many of them believe the wrong things.

他们中的许多人相信错误的事情。

That's my view, right?

这就是我的观点，对吗？

They believe the wrong things.

他们相信错误的事情。

They believe I believe the wrong things.

他们认为我相信了错误的事情。

But if you have this story in your head that liberals are selfish, why would you talk to any of them?

但如果你脑子里有这样的故事：自由主义者是自私的，你为什么要和他们中的任何一个人说话呢？

You know what I mean?

你知道我的意思？

So maybe liberals in general, and conservatives, we disagree with each other.

所以也许总体上自由派和保守派我们意见不一。

And one of us is right and one of us is wrong, but none of us are selfish.

我们中有一个人是对的，也有一个人是错的，但我们都不是自私的。

What about that idea?

那个想法怎么样？

Yeah, well that's-- Phil Neisser Food for thought.

是的，那就是——Phil Neisser 值得深思。

I don't know if this will change things for Janet and Susan, but I can tell you that by the end of the conversation, Janet-- to my surprise-- sounded hopeful.

我不知道这是否会改变珍妮特和苏珊的情况，但我可以告诉你，在谈话结束时，令我惊讶的是，珍妮特听起来充满希望。

I'm already thinking about things I can write her in an email and say, we need to get together, and we need to sit down and talk, and what can we do?

我已经在考虑可以在电子邮件中给她写信说，我们需要聚在一起，我们需要坐下来谈谈，我们能做什么？

I'm very hopeful.

我非常有希望。

What's the thing they said that made you feel that way?

他们说了什么让你有这样的感觉？

Well, it reminded me, I guess, that I'm not going to change her.

嗯，我想，这提醒了我，我不会改变她。

I mean, I can't make her see, but maybe before we start a conversation, let's have a hug and kiss and remember if yelling starts, we've got to do something to stop it.

我的意思是，我不能让她明白，但也许在我们开始谈话之前，让我们拥抱和亲吻，记住如果开始大喊大叫，我们必须采取措施阻止它。

To Phil and Jacob, the problem isn't that people disagree, it's the way they do it.

对于菲尔和雅各布来说，问题不在于人们意见不同，而在于他们做事的方式。

I saw this in so many people's stories.

我在很多人的故事中看到了这一点。

There was the woman whose parents said she could stay rent free with them during grad school as long as she signed a contract vowing to vote for Mitt Romney and the Obama voter who felt so betrayed by his son's support of Romney that he told him not to come by the house until the election is over.

有一位女士的父母说，只要她签署一份发誓投票给米特·罗姆尼的合同，她就可以在研究生期间与他们一起免房租。而这位奥巴马选民则因儿子对罗姆尼的支持而感到背叛，并告诉他在选举结束之前不要来家里。

One man wrote us hours after he'd been defriended by his mother on Facebook.

一名男子在 Facebook 上被母亲取消好友关系几个小时后，给我们写了一封信。

Why did she defriend him?

她为什么要和他解除好友关系？

Because when she posted that her support for Romney was purely about the economy, he wrote, quote, "To all the Jews, gypsies, Communists, and homosexuals, my vote for the Nazi party has nothing to do with you.

因为当她发帖称她对罗姆尼的支持纯粹是为了经济时，罗姆尼写道，“对所有犹太人、吉普赛人、共产党人和同性恋者来说，我对纳粹党的投票与你们无关。

I just wanted the trains to run on time." He wrote us that his biggest regret was mixing the two historical references.

我只是希望火车能准时运行。”他写信给我们说，他最大的遗憾是将这两个历史参考资料混为一谈。

But my favorite story was about a campaign sign.

但我最喜欢的故事是关于竞选标志的。

Last month, on a street in a town in the battleground state of Ohio, a woman and her husband decided to put out a Mitt Romney sign.

上个月，在战场州俄亥俄州一个小镇的街道上，一名妇女和她的丈夫决定张贴米特·罗姆尼的标语。

The woman, knowing that her neighbors were Obama supporters, worried what they'd think of her.

这位女士知道她的邻居是奥巴马的支持者，担心他们会怎么看她。

She considered them friends, and she didn't want things to get awkward or uncomfortable.

她认为他们是朋友，她不想让事情变得尴尬或不舒服。

So after she put out the sign, she wrote her neighbors an email explaining just that, telling them how much she valued their friendship and that she didn't want politics to come between them.

因此，在张贴标语后，她给邻居写了一封电子邮件，解释了这一点，告诉他们她多么重视他们的友谊，并且她不希望政治介入他们之间。

And at a time when so many people are either fighting or staying quiet, feeling weird about their differences, this small act struck me as incredibly honest and disarming.

当很多人要么战斗，要么保持沉默，对他们的差异感到奇怪时，这个小举动让我觉得非常诚实和解除戒心。

And her neighbors wrote her back to say of course, the sign was fine.

她的邻居给她回信说当然，这个标志很好。

Lisa Pollak's one of the producers of our show.

丽莎·波拉克是我们节目的制片人之一。

If you would like to be part of APM's Public Insight Network, which helped Lisa find some of her interviewees and which invites everyone to share their stories confidentially with journalists, go to publicinsightnetwork.org.

如果您想加入 APM 的 Public Insight Network（该网络帮助 Lisa 找到了一些受访者，并邀请每个人与记者秘密分享他们的故事），请访问 publicinsightnetwork.org。

Coming up, how two little words could upset an entire state legislature, and the words are not even in English.

接下来，两个小词如何能够扰乱整个州立法机构，而且这些词甚至都不是英文的。

That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.

一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。

It's This American Life .

这就是美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Today on our program, in the lead up to Tuesday's election, we have stories about the divide between red America and blue America.

今天在我们的节目中，在周二选举之前，我们有关于红色美国和蓝色美国之间分歧的故事。

We've arrived at act two of our program.

我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。

Act Two, "Nothing in Moderation."

第二幕，“凡事不节制”。

So the polarization of our country has spread far and wide.

所以我们国家的两极分化已经广泛蔓延。

People in the middle are being squeezed out, starting in the US Congress, where Democrats who lean to the right-- the Blue Dog Democrats-- are nearly extinct.

中间派人士正在被排挤，从美国国会开始，那里的右倾民主党人——蓝狗民主党人——几乎绝迹。

And the few remaining Republicans who are willing to compromise with the left-- like Olympia Snow of Maine-- are stepping down or being targeted for defeat by their own party and right-leaning special interest groups.

剩下的少数愿意与左翼妥协的共和党人——比如缅因州的奥林匹亚·斯诺——要么下台，要么成为自己政党和右倾特殊利益集团失败的目标。

And this is happening at the state level too, even in some places that were deeply, famously moderate, places you would not expect moderates to get pushed out, like New Hampshire.

这种情况也发生在州一级，即使是在一些以温和着称的地方，你不会指望温和派会被赶出去，比如新罕布什尔州。

Sarah Koenig explains.

莎拉·柯尼格解释道。

I learned about New Hampshire's turmoil from my friend Annmarie Timmins.

我从我的朋友安玛丽·蒂明斯那里了解到了新罕布什尔州的动乱。

She's a reporter at the Concord Monitor newspaper in New Hampshire.

她是新罕布什尔州《Concord Monitor》报纸的记者。

I used to work there too.

我也曾经在那里工作过。

That's how we met.

我们就是这样认识的。

She grew up in New Hampshire.

她在新罕布什尔州长大。

Her parents grew up in New Hampshire.

她的父母在新罕布什尔州长大。

I kind of think of Annmarie as New Hampshire.

我有点认为安玛丽是新罕布什尔州。

She's moderate in all things-- an "early to bed, early to rise," "treat others with respect" sort of person.

她凡事都很温和，是一个“早睡早起”、“尊重他人”的人。

By her own admission, she's a little old-fashioned, a bit of a Miss Manners, like New Hampshire.

她自己承认，她有点守旧，有点像新罕布什尔州的礼仪小姐。

For instance, each town in the state holds an annual meeting where the residents vote directly on the local budget.

例如，该州的每个城镇都会举行年度会议，居民直接对当地预算进行投票。

Here's Annmarie.

这是安玛丽。

I mean, I've been to town meetings where there's a little swear jar.

我的意思是，我参加过城镇会议，那里有一个小脏话罐。

If you swear or are rude, you have to put a quarter in.

如果你咒骂或粗鲁，你必须投入25美分。

And so if someone says something or cuts someone off or is rude, they walk up with their quarter and they put it in.

因此，如果有人说了些什么，或者打断了别人的话，或者很粗鲁，他们就会拿着自己的25美分硬币走过来，然后把它放进去。

And it's sort of funny, but they also take it seriously.

这有点有趣，但他们也很认真地对待它。

And they speak nicely to one another.

而且他们彼此之间都说得很好。

And the same was more or less true at the state House, which is remarkable for its size.

州议会大厦的情况也或多或少如此，其规模非常大。

It's got a little Senate of 24 people but then an enormous House with 400 members.

它有一个由 24 人组成的小型参议院，但还有一个拥有 400 名议员的庞大众议院。

And this in one of the smallest states in the country-- so that in some places, you could get elected with a grand total of, say, 650 votes and a campaign investment of maybe $200 or maybe nothing.

这是在该国最小的州之一——因此在某些地方，你可以凭借总共 650 张选票和也许 200 美元或者什么都没有的竞选投资来当选。

Literally, you could spend nothing and get elected to the New Hampshire House.

从字面上看，你可以不花任何钱就可以当选为新罕布什尔州众议院议员。

A truly representative democracy, reflecting the New Hampshire state tradition.

真正的代议制民主，反映了新罕布什尔州的传统。

You don't pry into each other's affairs, you don't ask people how much money they make, and you may not like what they're doing in the bedroom, but it's understood to be none of your business.

你们不会打探对方的事情，不会问别人赚了多少钱，你可能不喜欢他们在卧室里做的事情，但这与你无关。

This Libertarian sort of, I'll live my life, you live your life, we won't have a sales or income tax, and that's the New Hampshire way.

这种自由主义者，我过我的生活，你过你的生活，我们不会征收销售税或所得税，这就是新罕布什尔州的方式。

And you could hash things out and be friends at the end.

你们可以把事情讨论清楚，最后成为朋友。

And it's just not that anymore.

现在已经不再是这样了。

[RALLYING] Sarah Koenig Exhibit A.

[集会]莎拉·科尼格 (Sarah Koenig) 展品 A。

For the past couple of years, Annmarie has watched her state, the swear jar state, descend into a kind of knee-bashing, "you're either with us or against us" politics that used to exist someplace else-- on TV, maybe, or in Washington, DC.

在过去的几年里，安玛丽目睹了她所在的州，即脏话罐州，陷入了一种膝盖攻击的政治，“你要么支持我们，要么反对我们”，这种政治曾经存在于其他地方——也许是在电视上，或者在华盛顿特区。

This is footage of a rally against the Speaker of the New Hampshire House, Bill O'Brien, when he went to Portsmouth to deliver a speech to a Republican women's group.

这是一段反对新罕布什尔州众议院议长比尔·奥布莱恩（Bill O'Brien）前往朴茨茅斯向共和党妇女团体发表演讲的集会的镜头。

I didn't call you a pig.

我没有叫你猪。

Male Speaker No, you did.

男发言人不，你做到了。

You did.

你做到了。

You called him a pig.

你骂他是猪。

If you call him one, you call me one.

如果你称他为一，你也称我为一。

You liar.

你这个骗子。

Sarah Koenig In case you can't hear it, that dialogue-- it's the speaker and another state rep and a former state senator-- it went like this.

莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig）：如果你听不到，那段对话——演讲者和另一位州代表以及一位前州参议员——是这样的。

"Thank you for calling me a pig." "I did not call you a pig." "You did.

“谢谢你叫我猪。” “我没有骂你猪。” “你做到了。

You did.

你做到了。

You called him a pig.

你骂他是猪。

You call him one, you call me one." "You liar."

你称他为一，你也称我为一。” “你这个骗子。”

Can I just say, as someone who used to cover the New Hampshire state House for the Concord Monitor , this scene is shocking-- the very fact that the rally is aimed at the House Speaker.

我只能说，作为曾经为Concord Monitor报道新罕布什尔州众议院的人，这一幕令人震惊——事实上，这次集会是针对众议院议长的。

When I was covering the legislature, most people couldn't have told you the House Speaker even was.

当我报道立法机关时，大多数人都无法告诉你众议院议长是这样的。

I will tell you who it was.

我会告诉你那是谁。

It was Donna Sytek, a no-nonsense Republican who felt so strongly about political etiquette that she wrote a book about it, with chapters such as Decorum at the Event and Say Thank You.

唐娜·赛特克 (Donna Sytek) 是一位严肃的共和党人，她对政治礼仪有着如此强烈的感觉，以至于她写了一本关于政治礼仪的书，其中包括《活动中的礼仪》和《说谢谢》等章节。

Now there's less and less decorum at the event.

现在活动中的礼仪越来越少。

New Hampshire is such a small place, and the change here happens so quickly and thoroughly.

新罕布什尔州是一个很小的地方，但这里的变化却发生得如此迅速和彻底。

You can see very clearly how hard it is for people in the middle to hang on.

你可以很清楚地看到，中间的人坚持下去是多么困难。

What happens when the middle disappears?

当中间消失时会发生什么？

So what happened?

那么发生了什么？

Well, New Hampshire is in the grip of a sudden ideological whiplash.

好吧，新罕布什尔州正遭受突然的意识形态冲击。

Just like in Washington, the Democrats had a recent moment on top.

就像在华盛顿一样，民主党最近也处于领先地位。

In 2006, they won majorities in both houses of the New Hampshire legislature, the first time since the mid-1800s.

2006年，他们赢得了新罕布什尔州议会两院的多数席位，这是自1800年代中期以来的首次。

And they did what Democrats do-- increased spending for their priorities and they legalized gay marriage.

他们做了民主党所做的事情——增加优先事项的支出，并使同性婚姻合法化。

Then four years later in the 2010 election, when Democrats took a shellacking nationwide, the same thing happened in New Hampshire.

四年后的 2010 年大选中，民主党在全国范围内遭到猛烈抨击，同样的事情也发生在新罕布什尔州。

Republicans swept in.

共和党人大举入侵。

They won not just majorities but super majorities in both houses.

他们不仅赢得了参众两院的多数票，而且赢得了绝对多数票。

Republicans dominated Democrats three to one.

共和党以三比一击败民主党。

The GOP leaders vowed to undo what they called the, quote, "four-year assault" the Democrats had launched on the state.

共和党领导人发誓要撤销民主党对该州发起的“四年攻击”。

They were going to rethink what government should even be doing.

他们将重新思考政府应该做什么。

The voters had elected about 160 new Republican members, a huge band of newcomers.

选民选出了大约160名新共和党议员，这是一个庞大的新人群体。

And they were a fired-up population-- Tea Partiers and hardcore Libertarians and Christian conservatives and Free Staters.

他们是一群热情高涨的人——茶党、铁杆自由主义者、基督教保守派和自由国家主义者。

Free Staters are a movement unto themselves-- people from elsewhere who'd picked up and moved to New Hampshire in the past decade with the express intention of getting elected and transforming government into the tiniest institution possible.

自由州者本身就是一场运动——过去十年里，来自其他地方的人们搬到新罕布什尔州，明确表示要当选并将政府转变为尽可能小的机构。

Many of these Republican freshmen didn't want to sit back and learn.

许多共和党新人并不想坐下来学习。

Like the Republicans who swept into DC in 2010, they wanted action now.

就像 2010 年席卷华盛顿的共和党人一样，他们希望现在就采取行动。

They bucked tradition, they bucked leadership, they were defiant.

他们反抗传统，反抗领导，他们挑衅。

And I think that caused a great deal of frustration.

我认为这引起了很大的挫败感。

Meet George Lambert, one of these newcomers.

来认识一下乔治·兰伯特，他是这些新来者之一。

Because they're like, well, you don't know how things work.

因为他们就像，嗯，你不知道事情是如何运作的。

And my response to that, and the response of a lot of people like me, is you're absolutely right.

我对此的回应以及很多像我一样的人的回应是，你是绝对正确的。

We got elected because people didn't like the way that things were working.

我们当选是因为人们不喜欢事情的运作方式。

Lambert's 44, a computer guy.

兰伯特今年 44 岁，是一名计算机专家。

He's not a big fan of government in general.

总的来说，他不太喜欢政府。

In the past two years, Lambert sponsored or cosponsored bills to prohibit vaccinations in public schools, allow nonviolent felons access to firearms, get rid of sobriety checkpoints, and outlaw speed limits.

在过去的两年里，兰伯特发起或共同发起了禁止在公立学校接种疫苗、允许非暴力重罪犯获得枪支、取消清醒检查站以及取缔限速等法案。

By the time O'Brien took over as speaker, the alchemy of the House had changed so much there was no telling what could pass.

当奥布莱恩接任议长时，众议院的炼金术发生了巨大的变化，不知道会发生什么。

It seemed like everything was on the table, even stuff that had been long settled in the state-- public schools, several bills to limit abortions, bills to get rid of all sorts of gun licensing, also the repeal of gay marriage.

似乎一切都摆在了桌面上，甚至包括公立学校早已解决的问题、几项限制堕胎的法案、废除各种枪支许可证的法案，以及废除同性婚姻的法案。

On day one of the 2011 legislative session, a day for symbolism and legislative good cheer, there was this.

2011 年立法会议的第一天，这一具有象征意义和立法欢呼的一天，发生了这样的事情。

We shall be allowed to protect ourselves on the House floor by having the ability to have a concealed weapon on the floor, in the anteroom, in the gallery.

我们将被允许在众议院地板上保护自己，方法是在地板上、前厅里、画廊里隐藏武器。

Yep.

是的。

On day one, they voted to allow guns in the state House.

第一天，他们投票允许州议会允许枪支。

And remember, there are 400 of these people.

请记住，这些人有 400 人。

This new rule has led to some really weird moments, like when a rep named Kyle Tasker dropped his gun in the middle of a criminal justice and public safety committee hearing.

这项新规则导致了一些非常奇怪的时刻，比如一位名叫凯尔·塔斯克的代表在刑事司法和公共安全委员会听证会上掉枪了。

Annmarie was there.

安玛丽就在那里。

He was situating himself in his seat, and he kind of scooted forward.

他坐在自己的座位上，向前挪了挪。

And there was this clang.

然后传来一声叮当声。

And people were like, was that his gun?

人们会问，那是他的枪吗？

I had to check.

我必须检查一下。

I said, did that really just happen?

我说，这真的是刚刚发生的事吗？

He did drop his gun, right?

他确实放下了枪，对吗？

That's what it was?

原来是这样的？

Because there was no discussion about it, no break in the meeting, didn't clear the room-- nothing.

因为没有对此进行讨论，没有在会议中休息，也没有清理房间——什么都没有。

Nothing.

没有什么。

I had just given blood, and I might not have latched it quite properly.

我刚刚献过血，我可能没有正确地含住它。

Representative Kyle Tasker.

代表凯尔·塔斯克。

Kyle Tasker All I could think was, yeah, that was bound to happen one of these days.

凯尔·塔斯克 我所能想到的就是，是的，这件事迟早有一天会发生。

I come here too often for that not to have happened.

我来这里太频繁了，不可能没有发生这种事。

Yep, that was bound to happen.

是的，那是必然会发生的。

I spoke to another rep whose entire holster, with gun, fell off right outside the state House.

我和另一位代表交谈过，他的整个皮套和枪就在州议会大厦外掉了下来。

He never brought his gun again after that, though he didn't want me to tell anyone since he'd like people to think he carries all the time, keep them on their toes.

此后他再也没有带枪，尽管他不想让我告诉任何人，因为他希望人们认为他一直带着枪，让他们保持警惕。

During the first year of this new regime, the Republicans managed something extraordinary.

在这个新政权的第一年，共和党取得了非凡的成就。

They'd vowed to slash government spending and not raise any taxes or fees.

他们发誓要削减政府支出，并且不提高任何税收或费用。

And they actually did it.

他们确实做到了。

They shrunk the budget by nearly 11% and lowered the cigarette tax to boot.

他们将预算缩减了近 11%，并降低了卷烟税。

They turned the budget process on its head, adding up revenues first and then axing whatever they couldn't pay for.

他们彻底改变了预算流程，首先增加收入，然后削减他们无法支付的费用。

The result, funding for the University of New Hampshire cut nearly in half, hospital funding cut by at least $250 million, assistance to needy families cut by something like $14 million.

结果，新罕布什尔大学的经费减少了近一半，医院经费减少了至少 2.5 亿美元，对贫困家庭的援助减少了约 1400 万美元。

These are big, big numbers in New Hampshire.

在新罕布什尔州，这些数字非常非常大。

Attached to the budget were the same kinds of anti-union measures you saw in Wisconsin and other states, and they resulted in the same kind of blow back.

预算附带了与威斯康星州和其他州相同的反工会措施，它们导致了同样的反击。

What's disgusting?

有什么恶心的？

Protesters Union busting.

抗议者破坏工会。

All right.

好的。

Security?

安全？

Clear the hall.

清理大厅。

Clear the hall!

清空大厅！

Get out.

出去。

Union busting.

破坏工会。

Sarah Koenig This is from a finance committee hearing.

莎拉·科尼格 (Sarah Koenig) 这是财务委员会听证会的内容。

The day of the actual budget vote, screaming protesters covered the State House lawn and filled the House gallery.

实际预算投票当天，尖叫的抗议者占据了州议会大厦的草坪，挤满了众议院画廊。

The puffed-up rhetoric that day was especially puffy.

那天的言辞尤其浮夸。

Here's then-Republican Majority Leader DJ Bettencourt.

这是当时的共和党多数党领袖 DJ Bettencourt。

Never in the years, Mr. Speaker, that I have been in this House--

议长先生，我在这所房子里的这些年里从来没有——

Bettencourt was all of 27 years old, by the way.

顺便说一句，贝当古当时已经 27 岁了。

--have I ever heard such outrageous and exaggerated political hyperbole engulf a budget proposal such as we have seen here.

——我有没有听说过如此令人愤慨和夸张的政治夸张吞没了我们在这里看到的预算提案。

With terms as extreme as immoral and evil, what a disgrace.

用不道德、邪恶的极端术语，真是耻辱。

Like every revolution, this one had a leader-- House Speaker Bill O'Brien.

与每一次革命一样，这次革命也有一位领导者——众议院议长比尔·奥布莱恩。

No question, he's been the lightning rod for pretty much everything that's happened, good or bad, in the past two years.

毫无疑问，过去两年里发生的几乎所有事情，无论好坏，他都是避雷针。

According to Fergus Cullen, a former state GOP chairman, O'Brien recruited dozens of the new freshmen in 2010.

据前州共和党主席弗格斯·卡伦 (Fergus Cullen) 称，奥布莱恩在 2010 年招募了数十名新人。

Quote, "What Bill was trying to do was not only fill seats," he said, "but to find people who are ideological-- you know, the right kind of Republican.

他说：“比尔试图做的不仅仅是填补席位，而是找到有意识形态的人——你知道，正确的共和党人。

He wanted the strongest anti-Obama types." Unquote.

他想要最强烈的反奥巴马类型。”取消引用。

And when O'Brien ran for Speaker after only four years in the House, these new folks supported him, upending the establishment.

当奥布莱恩在众议院任职仅四年后竞选议长时，这些新人就支持他，颠覆了当权派。

Ever since, O'Brien's been a guy who elicits all variety of superlatives.

从那时起，奥布莱恩就成为了一个能引发各种最高级的人。

These next few voices all belong to Republicans.

接下来的这几个声音都是属于共和党的。

Actually, every lawmaker you'll hear in this story is a Republican.

事实上，你在这个故事中听到的每一位立法者都是共和党人。

That man has more integrity than anyone I've met in government ever.

这个人比我在政府中见过的任何人都更加正直。

Our Republican Party has been hijacked by Bill O'Brien and his thugs.

我们的共和党已经被比尔·奥布莱恩和他的暴徒劫持了。

They're nasty.

他们很讨厌。

They're mean.

他们很卑鄙。

I have never encountered such bullying.

我从来没有遇到过这样的欺凌行为。

The definition of a cult leader is somebody that can get people to bend their will to succumb to them, and we're seeing more and more of that.

邪教领袖的定义是能够让人们屈服于他们的意志的人，我们看到越来越多的人这样做。

He's a great Speaker.

他是一位出色的议长。

He's probably the best tool that the Republicans have to accomplish a conservative agenda in the state.

他可能是共和党在该州实现保守议程的最佳工具。

That's George Lambert, Susan Emerson, Lee Quandt, and Bob Meade.

他们是乔治·兰伯特、苏珊·爱默生、李·匡特和鲍勃·米德。

I don't know if an unbending, take-no-prisoners style is required to achieve radical change in a State House.

我不知道是否需要采取不屈不挠、不偏不倚的风格来实现州议会大厦的彻底变革。

But in New Hampshire, the two have gone hand in hand.

但在新罕布什尔州，两者齐头并进。

Arguably, the Speaker's in charge of marshaling an unwieldy coalition.

可以说，议长负责组建一个笨拙的联盟。

The Libertarians don't always agree with the Free Staters who don't always agree with the conservatives.

自由主义者并不总是同意自由国家者的观点，而自由国家者并不总是同意保守派的观点。

So maybe a firm hand is the only way to get anything done at all.

因此，也许坚定的手是完成任何事情的唯一方法。

In any case, what's clear is that if you cross the speaker, especially on something he cares about, he will not take it lying down.

无论如何，很明显的是，如果你与说话者发生冲突，尤其是在他关心的事情上，他不会袖手旁观。

Two Republican reps who angered the speaker-- one an ex-cop injured on the job, the other in a wheelchair-- were both denied aisle seats.

两名激怒了演讲者的共和党代表——其中一名前警察在工作中受伤，另一名坐在轮椅上——都被剥夺了过道座位。

And no, the latter was not allowed to reach over to his assigned spot and press his voting button with his cane.

不，后者不被允许到达他指定的位置并用拐杖按下投票按钮。

Representative Susan Emerson got into a ferocious and well-publicized fight with Speaker O'Brien last year.

去年，众议员苏珊·爱默生 (Susan Emerson) 与议长奥布莱恩 (O'Brien) 发生了一场激烈且广为人知的争执。

Fun fact about Susan Emerson-- she has over 700 hats stored in plastic bins in her barn.

关于 Susan Emerson 的有趣事实——她在谷仓的塑料箱里存放着 700 多顶帽子。

She wears a different one every single day.

她每天都穿不同的衣服。

Anyway, last year when the House was getting ready to debate the budget, Emerson objected to a bunch of cuts in services for the poor and mentally ill.

不管怎样，去年众议院准备辩论预算时，艾默生反对大幅削减针对穷人和精神病患者的服务。

She planned to bring an amendment to the House floor to restore the money.

她计划向众议院提出修正案以恢复这笔资金。

That apparently was a no-no.

这显然是一个禁忌。

And O'Brien comes over.

奥布莱恩过来了。

I can still hear his feet pitter-patting up the aisle, and he said, Emerson, outside now.

我仍然能听到他的脚步声在过道上拍打着，他说，艾默生，现在在外面。

He takes her across the hall into the Senate chamber and tells her in no uncertain terms to drop her amendment.

他带她穿过大厅进入参议院会议厅，并毫不含糊地告诉她放弃修正案。

And he was just screaming.

他只是尖叫。

And I just couldn't get any words in.

我就是无法说出任何话来。

And I kept backing up because I thought O'Brien was going to hit me.

我一直后退，因为我以为奥布莱恩会打我。

He was two inches from my face.

他离我的脸只有两英寸。

And I started crying.

我开始哭泣。

In the aftermath, Emerson got kicked off her committee, Health and Human Services, and ended up filing House Bill 1533, an act prohibiting bullying in the State House and Legislative Office Building.

此后，艾默生被踢出了她的健康与公众服务委员会，并最终提交了众议院第 1533 号法案，该法案禁止在州议会大厦和立法办公大楼内进行欺凌行为。

This fight had been the talk of Concord.

这场战斗一直是康科德的热门话题。

And when it came time for the public hearing, other lawmakers came forward to say they'd been bullied too.

当公开听证会到来时，其他立法者站出来表示他们也受到了欺凌。

Speaker O'Brien told the Nashua Telegraph , quote, "It pains me to say Representative Emerson has fabricated all of this." Unquote.

奥布莱恩议长告诉《纳舒厄电讯报》，“我很难过地说，艾默生议员捏造了这一切。”取消引用。

I think it's safe to say that what most of us want from our government is people thinking problems through on their merits, hashing out solutions.

我认为可以肯定地说，我们大多数人希望从政府那里得到的是人们根据自身的优点思考问题，找出解决方案。

The place where that hashing out happens is the legislative committees.

进行讨论的地方是立法委员会。

Anywhere from 800 to 1,000 bills are filed each term in the House.

每届众议院都会提交 800 至 1,000 份法案。

If you're a volunteer or citizen lawmaker, you're depending on the committees to figure out the details.

如果您是志愿者或公民立法者，您将依赖委员会来确定细节。

They're the experts.

他们是专家。

In New Hampshire, the committees had worked well, for the most part leaving posturing and party nonsense outside the room.

在新罕布什尔州，委员会运作良好，大部分情况下都将故作姿态和政党废话留在了房间之外。

I wondered if that was still true.

我想知道这是否仍然如此。

Was give and take still allowed?

还允许给予和索取吗？

Did they tolerate dissent?

他们容忍异议吗？

When I asked around, this was what most people complained about-- that this process is what broke down under the new agenda.

当我四处询问时，这是大多数人抱怨的——这个过程在新议程下被打破了。

Leadership didn't just want Republicans to win all committee votes.

领导层不仅仅希望共和党赢得所有委员会的选票。

They wanted to win unequivocally.

他们想要明确地获胜。

So Republican reps would be sent into committees just before votes, and these ringers would cast votes even when they hadn't heard a speck of testimony, and even on controversial bills like voter ID.

因此，共和党代表将在投票前被派往委员会，即使他们没有听到任何证词，甚至在选民身份等有争议的法案上，他们也会投票。

I heard several stories like this next one.

我听过好几个类似下一个的故事。

David Welch is a Republican on the criminal justice and public safety committee.

大卫·韦尔奇是刑事司法和公共安全委员会的共和党人。

He's white haired and bearded and looks like he stepped out of the giant Civil War painting on the first floor of the State House.

他白发白须，看起来就像是从州议会大厦一楼的巨型内战画中走出来的。

The look is by design.

外观是经过设计的。

He's a reenactor, but not of the Civil War, it turns out.

事实证明，他是一位重演者，但不是内战的重演者。

I do French and Indian and Revolution.

我做法语、印度语和革命。

Civil War-- I never could get involved in the Civil War because you have to be a soldier.

内战——我永远不可能参与内战，因为你必须是一名士兵。

You have to wear a uniform, and everybody wants to be a general.

你必须穿制服，每个人都想成为将军。

Welch was also in House leadership, a deputy whip.

韦尔奇还担任众议院领导职务，担任副党鞭。

His committee was considering a bill-- well, I'll just read you the title.

他的委员会正在考虑一项法案——好吧，我给你读一下标题。

Quote, "an act making the touching or viewing with a technological device of a person's breasts or genitals by a government security agent without probable cause a sexual assault," unquote.

引用，“政府安全人员在没有可能原因的情况下使用技术设备触摸或观看一个人的乳房或生殖器的行为，”未引用。

Basically, it would make TSA agents at Manchester Airport subject to felony sex offender charges for using their equipment too freely.

基本上，这将使曼彻斯特机场的运输安全管理局工作人员因过于随意使用设备而受到性犯罪重罪指控。

The committee thought it was a dumb bill, and they voted unanimously-- or near-unanimously, Welch can't quite remember-- to kill it.

委员会认为这是一项愚蠢的法案，他们一致投票——或者几乎一致投票，韦尔奇不太记得了——否决了它。

Well, evidently there was somebody in the room that was monitoring how the vote was going.

嗯，显然房间里有人在监视投票的进行情况。

And that individual went out and made a phone call.

那人出去打电话了。

And then we were taken out of committee into a caucus.

然后我们被带出委员会进入党团会议。

In other words, a meeting just for the Republicans.

换句话说，这是一场专门为共和党人举行的会议。

Which was the first time-- that was in 27 years-- first time that we've ever had a Republican caucus in my committee.

这是 27 年来我们第一次在我的委员会中举行共和党核心小组会议。

That was like going to the woodshed.

这就像去木棚一样。

It was the speaker.

是说话的人。

And we were told that the bill has to come out of committee.

我们被告知该法案必须由委员会提出。

Did anyone say, with all due respect, Mr. Speaker, we've looked at this legislation and it just doesn't make sense in its present form, or some polite way of saying, this is bad legislation?

议长先生，恕我直言，有没有人说，我们已经研究了这项立法，它目前的形式没有意义，或者以某种礼貌的方式说，这是一项糟糕的立法？

Did anyone argue?

有人争论吗？

Three or four of us did, including me.

我们三四个人都这么做了，包括我。

But it didn't make any difference.

但这没有任何区别。

He wanted it, so as the majority whip or the assistant majority whip, I came back into committee.

他想要它，所以作为多数党鞭子或助理多数党鞭子，我回到了委员会。

I made a motion for reconsideration.

我提出了重新考虑的动议。

And then I made a motion to pass the bill out.

然后我提出议案通过该法案。

How did you feel doing that?

这样做你感觉如何？

David Welch I'd rather not say.

大卫·韦尔奇 我不想说。

But I didn't feel good about it.

但我对此感觉不太好。

But I did it.

但我做到了。

Did you feel ashamed?

你感到羞耻吗？

David Welch Somewhat.

大卫·韦尔奇 有点。

It's not that strong-arm tactics were never used by previous speakers in New Hampshire.

这并不是说新罕布什尔州之前的演讲者从未使用过强硬手段。

But most everyone told me that moves used rarely in the past, now they're almost expected.

但大多数人告诉我，过去很少使用的动作，现在几乎是预料之中的。

In speeches and press releases, Bill O'Brien doesn't hold back.

在演讲和新闻稿中，比尔·奥布莱恩毫不犹豫。

He says Democrats, quote, "promote lies," judges are, quote, "politicians in black robes," unions, in his world, apparently only employ bosses or thugs, and the notion that gay marriage is a civil right, absurd.

他说，民主党人“宣扬谎言”，法官是“穿黑袍的政客”，在他的世界里，工会显然只雇用老板或暴徒，而同性婚姻是一项公民权利的观念是荒谬的。

But he's much scarier on paper than he is in person.

但他在纸面上比他本人更可怕。

This is no Boss Hogg of the North.

这不是北方的霍格老大。

O'Brien is short and slight with a neat beard and an almost shy aspect.

奥布莱恩身材矮小，身材瘦小，留着整齐的胡须，看上去几乎是害羞的。

And he's got a nice, ready laugh, and he's witty and smart, like the attorney he is.

他笑容灿烂，机智聪明，就像他的律师一样。

His demeanor says, who me?

他的神态说，我是谁？

I'm just here doing my part, advancing liberty, like any decent person would.

我只是在这里尽自己的一份力量，促进自由，就像任何正派的人一样。

You know, this concept that somehow a speaker of a New Hampshire House can be the Svengali of New Hampshire politics is just really kind of at variance with what the New Hampshire House is all about.

你知道，新罕布什尔州众议院的议长可以以某种方式成为新罕布什尔州政治的斯文加利这一概念与新罕布什尔州众议院的宗旨确实有些不一致。

When I asked about the harsher brand of politics he's ushered in, about whether radical change requires it, about how he sees this legislative war, he simply disagreed with the premise of my question, that the town has gotten harsher.

当我问及他所引入的更严厉的政治方式、是否需要进行彻底的变革、以及他如何看待这场立法战争时，他只是不同意我问题的前提，即该镇已经变得更加严厉。

He did this time after time, and not disagreeably, like this.

他一次又一次地这样做，而且并不令人不快，就像这样。

My thinking again is that the premise of your question is wrong.

我的再次思考是，你的问题的前提是错误的。

He said the same thing when I asked him about his heavy-handedness with committees.

当我问他对委员会的高压手段时，他也说了同样的话。

And the allegations of bullying he shrugged off as inside baseball, part of the Democrat narrative to distract citizens from the issues they truly care about-- jobs, taxes, the budget; if he's brought something new to Concord, it's not bullying, it's a fresh set of eyes.

他对有关欺凌行为的指控不屑一顾，认为这是棒球内部的欺凌行为，这是民主党叙事的一部分，目的是分散公民对他们真正关心的问题的注意力——就业、税收、预算；等等。如果他给康科德带来了一些新东西，那不是欺凌，而是一种新的眼光。

I became speaker after two terms in the House.

我在众议院任职两届后成为议长。

And that brought certain strengths.

这带来了一定的优势。

And among those strengths was I wasn't tied to the past.

这些优点之一是我不被过去束缚。

And so it allowed us to look at problems anew.

因此它让我们能够重新审视问题。

And I think that may have been what is shocking to the system.

我认为这可能就是令整个系统震惊的地方。

And it may well be that there were those who said, they're encountering this huge deficit.

很可能有人说，他们正在面临巨大的赤字。

And we know what has happened in the past.

我们知道过去发生了什么。

There's a combination of cuts.

有削减的组合。

There's a combination of tax increases.

有多种增税措施。

And we didn't do that.

但我们没有这样做。

And I think that may well have been shocking to the system and invited the type of response, personal attacks, and so forth, that we've seen come.

我认为这很可能令整个系统感到震惊，并引发了我们所看到的回应、人身攻击等类型。

That's not dismissing the voters.

这并不是排斥选民。

It's not being harsh with the opposition.

这并不是对反对派严厉。

It is basically just keeping your promises.

基本上就是信守承诺。

In our conversation, O'Brien was disciplined about staying on message.

在我们的谈话中，奥布莱恩遵守纪律，坚持传达信息。

Almost every topic ended up back at the balanced budget.

几乎每个主题最终都回到了平衡预算。

What he's not as keen to discuss is the fact that much of these past two years has been consumed by trickier, less crowd-pleasing topics-- guns, unions, gay marriage, contraception, abortion.

他不太热衷于讨论的事实是，过去两年的大部分时间都被更棘手、不那么讨人喜欢的话题所占据——枪支、工会、同性婚姻、避孕、堕胎。

New Hampshirites who'd voted for the new guard to rein in spending, a big part of their appeal in this fiscally-minded state, ended up with a broader ideological agenda.

新罕布什尔州的选民投票支持新卫队控制开支，这是他们在这个注重财政的州的一大吸引力，但他们最终提出了更广泛的意识形态议程。

And some of it was fringe-y, catering to people with a fundamental distrust of government.

其中一些是边缘化的，迎合了对政府根本不信任的人们。

For instance, O'Brien resurrected a committee that had been dormant for about a century.

例如，奥布莱恩复活了一个休眠了大约一个世纪的委员会。

It's called the Redress of Grievance committee, and it's a straightforward concept.

它被称为申诉申诉委员会，这是一个简单的概念。

The committee is supposed to give citizens who believe they've been wronged by government a place to come and complain.

该委员会应该为那些认为自己受到政府冤枉的公民提供一个投诉的地方。

In practice, though, it's mostly angry dads challenging child custody and divorce cases that the family court settled years ago.

但实际上，大多是愤怒的父亲对家庭法院多年前解决的孩子监护权和离婚案件提出质疑。

What this court order says is that I'm not allowed to punish my son.

法庭命令的内容是我不可以惩罚我的儿子。

I'm not allowed to parent my son.

我不被允许抚养我的儿子。

Mind you, his mother's sitting there on these telephone calls.

请注意，他的母亲正坐在那儿接这些电话。

The telephone calls are on speakerphone so she can monitor them.

电话是通过免提通话的，这样她就可以监听。

She's coaching him.

她正在训练他。

I've heard her coaching--

我听过她的辅导——

This man testified for about eight hours-- not the longest by a long shot, actually.

这个人作证了大约八个小时——实际上，这并不是最长的。

Apparently there was one that went on for almost 20 hours.

显然有一场持续了近20个小时。

He aired intimate details of his family's life.

他播出了他家庭生活的私密细节。

And remember, this isn't in front of a court.

请记住，这不是在法庭前。

He's talking to regular old legislators in a committee who are sympathetic to his grievances.

他正在与委员会中的老议员交谈，他们同情他的不满。

According to one committee member, Tim Horrigan-- admittedly a Democrat-- a bunch of members don't show up for these hearings at all, but about half the members who do come feel that the judicial branch is a, quote, "vast conspiracy." The judges and another judicial officers who are accused of wrongdoing don't come to defend themselves, though occasionally someone will send a letter.

据一位委员会成员蒂姆·霍里根（Tim Horrigan）——公认的民主党人——称，一些成员根本没有出席这些听证会，但出席听证会的成员中约有一半感到司法部门是一个“巨大的阴谋”。被指控有不当行为的法官和其他司法人员不会来为自己辩护，但偶尔会有人写信。

So the committee really only ever hears one side of the story.

所以委员会实际上只听到了故事的一方面。

Nevertheless, as in this man's case, the committee recommends all manner of impeachment investigations and rule changes.

尽管如此，正如这名男子的案件一样，委员会建议进行各种形式的弹劾调查和规则修改。

All told, Horrigan said, about half the Superior Court judges had been recommended for impeachment.

霍里根说，总而言之，大约一半的高等法院法官被建议弹劾。

And marital masters, the state's judicial experts, deciding the thorniest and most emotional of family cases-- divorces and child custody and the like-- nearly all of them had cases brought against them.

婚姻专家、州司法专家，负责裁决最棘手、最情绪化的家庭案件——离婚和子女监护权等——几乎所有人都受到了针对他们的诉讼。

Here's Deborah Rein.

请听黛博拉·雷恩的报道。

She worked as a marital master for almost 24 years before retiring in December.

她担任婚姻大师近24年，于去年12月退休。

All these hearings, she says, are chilling for everyone who works in the family court system.

她说，所有这些听证会让所有在家庭法院系统工作的人都感到不寒而栗。

We shouldn't be worried that the legislature is going to start telling judges how they should be handling cases.

我们不应该担心立法机关会开始告诉法官他们应该如何处理案件。

I don't know.

我不知道。

It was really hard being part of this important branch of government that looked like it was just being dismantled.

作为这个看起来刚刚被解散的重要政府部门的一部分真的很困难。

In June of 2011, the legislature voted to get rid of marital masters.

2011年6月，立法机关投票废除婚姻大师。

Problem solved.

问题解决了。

After a year of all this, old-school, moderate New Hampshire Republicans had had enough.

经过一年的这一切，老派、温和的新罕布什尔州共和党人已经受够了。

They insisted that New Hampshire voters didn't want this right wing agenda.

他们坚称新罕布什尔州选民不想要这个右翼议程。

Here's Dave Kidder.

请听戴夫·基德的报道。

He's fifth generation in his town.

他是镇上的第五代传人。

His father was a beloved lawmaker before him.

他的父亲在他之前是一位受人爱戴的立法者。

There's very few of us-- what we all call Rockefeller Republicans-- left.

我们中很少有人——我们都称之为洛克菲勒共和党人——离开了。

Everybody has just either become Democrats or they've gone to the right.

每个人要么成为民主党人，要么转向右翼。

And I ain't going.

我不会去。

My poor mother would come right out of the ground if she thought I was ever going to be a Democrat.

如果我可怜的母亲认为我会成为一名民主党人，她会立即从地里出来的。

And I'm not going to kowtow to the right wing of the party because I don't think they're Republicans.

我不会向党内右翼屈服，因为我不认为他们是共和党人。

So Kidder and the other moderates started to meet privately to quietly, respectfully discuss, the way moderates do.

因此，基德和其他温和派开始私下会面，以温和派的方式进行安静、尊重的讨论。

They came up with a plan.

他们想出了一个计划。

They would team up with, yes, Democrats and Independents and form a bipartisan caucus down the middle.

是的，他们将与民主党和独立人士合作，组成一个中间的两党核心小组。

It had never been done before.

以前从未有人这样做过。

If they could get 40 or 50 people to join, they'd be a force to be reckoned with.

如果他们能吸引 40 或 50 人加入，他们将是一股不可忽视的力量。

In May of this year, they announced themselves as Restore the Center.

今年五月，他们宣布自己为恢复中心。

They held a press conference across the street from the State House.

他们在州议会大厦街对面举行了新闻发布会。

Cynthia Dokmo, a moderate Republican, was one of the organizers.

温和派共和党人辛西娅·多克莫 (Cynthia Dokmo) 是组织者之一。

And we were in the LOB, the Legislative Office Building, where press conferences are often held.

我们当时在立法办公大楼LOB，那里经常举行新闻发布会。

Thank you, Cynthia.

谢谢你，辛西娅。

And thanks to all my friends and--

感谢我所有的朋友，还有——

And I believe it was Dr. Jim Squires that was speaking.

我相信说话的是吉姆·斯奎尔斯博士。

I'm here today because I believe a great danger lurks within the politics of our nation and state.

我今天来这里是因为我相信我们国家和州的政治中潜藏着巨大的危险。

And in the middle of it, all of a sudden, most of the reporters just got phone calls, and they ran out of room.

就在中间，突然间，大多数记者接到电话，然后就跑出了房间。

--gauntlets and-- Sarah Koenig You can hear people shuffling around, doors swinging, as they head across the street.

--手套和-- Sarah Koenig 当人们穿过街道时，你可以听到人们拖着脚走来走去，门在摇晃。

I knew something had happened because they don't usually just run off in the middle of someone speaking.

我知道发生了什么事，因为他们通常不会在有人说话的时候逃跑。

On one side of the street, speeches about the dire need for civility, compromise, consensus.

在街道的一侧，人们发表了关于迫切需要文明、妥协和共识的演讲。

On the other side of the street, an explosion of incivility, a show-stopper.

在街道的另一边，爆发了不文明行为，令人震惊。

Representative Steve Vaillancourt, a Republican, had challenged the Speaker's treatment of a Democrat during a floor debate.

共和党众议员史蒂夫·瓦扬古(Steve Vaillancourt)在一场辩论中对议长对待民主党人的方式提出了质疑。

[INTERPOSING VOICES] Bill O'Brien The Sergeant-at-Arms will bring Representative Vaillancourt to order.

[插话] Bill O'Brien 军士将命令 Vaillancourt 众议员遵守命令。

Are you going to treat everybody fairly or not?

你会公平地对待每个人吗？

Representative Vaillancourt, another outburst like that, you'll be removed from the hall.

Vaillancourt 议员，再发这样的脾气，你就会被赶出大厅。

The Sergeant-at-Arms will remove Representative Vaillancourt from the hall.

武装中士将把 Vaillancourt 议员带出大厅。

Well, they got the Sergeant-at-Arms, and he came and wanted to escort me out.

好吧，他们找到了武装中士，他来了，想护送我出去。

And I refused to leave.

我拒绝离开。

The funny thing is all these virile young Libertarian Free Staters would have nothing to do with it.

有趣的是，所有这些精力充沛的年轻自由主义者都与此无关。

As you probably know, I sit in the back row.

你可能知道，我坐在后排。

And the two people who came to shield me from the Sergeant-at-Arms was an 89-year-old woman from Manchester named Irene Messier and Julie Brown, who must be pushing 90 years old.

前来保护我免受军士长伤害的两个人是一位来自曼彻斯特的 89 岁妇女，名叫艾琳·梅西耶 (Irene Messier) 和朱莉·布朗 (Julie Brown)，她一定已经 90 岁了。

These were the people, like mother hens, that weren't going to remove me.

这些人就像母鸡一样，不会把我赶走。

So what they eventually did was take the key away so I couldn't vote.

所以他们最终做的就是拿走了钥匙，这样我就无法投票了。

Now Vaillancourt claims he meant no offense with the sieg heil thing.

现在，瓦扬库尔声称他对围攻万岁事件并无冒犯之意。

I know.

我知道。

But just hear him out.

但请听他说完。

He lived in Berlin for a time.

他曾在柏林住过一段时间。

And having studied German, to me sieg heil simply means victory.

学过德语后，对我来说，sieg heil 就意味着胜利。

And as I was using it in relationship to the Speaker, it means Mr. Speaker, you have the power, so the victory is yours.

正如我在与议长的关系中使用它时，这意味着议长先生，你有权力，所以胜利是你的。

I can't say anything.

我什么也不能说。

So sieg heil.

所以围攻万岁。

Oh, come on.

哦，来吧。

You weren't meaning to conjure Adolf Hitler in that moment.

那一刻你并不想召唤阿道夫·希特勒。

Absolutely not.

绝对不是。

Sarah Koenig Oh, come on, Steve.

莎拉·科尼格 哦，来吧，史蒂夫。

The entire rest of America has that association with sieg heil, and you're saying that you did not have Adolf Hitler in your head when you said sieg heil?

整个美国其他地区都与 sieg heil 有着这种联系，而你是说当你说 sieg heil 时，你脑子里没有阿道夫·希特勒？

Absolutely not, swear to God, did not cross my mind at all.

绝对不是，向上帝发誓，我根本没想过。

But I do realize that some people associate sieg heil with the Nazis.

但我确实意识到有些人将“Sieg Heil”与纳粹联系在一起。

That's why I probably would have been better, in retrospect, saying sic semper tyrannis.

这就是为什么我现在回想起来可能会更好地说“sic semper tyrannis”。

You're not going to ask me what that means?

你不会问我这意味着什么？

I-- well, go ahead.

我——好吧，继续吧。

Steve Vaillancourt You know what that means.

Steve Vaillancourt 你知道这意味着什么。

It means as always with dictators.

这对独裁者来说一如既往。

Members will come to order.

会员将前来订购。

The chair recognizes Representative Vaillancourt.

主席认可 Vaillancourt 代表。

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

谢谢议长先生。

As I was saying before, I cannot apologize for anything I did not do.

正如我之前所说，我无法为我没有做过的事情道歉。

But I do apologize for using two German words, which I understand have negative ramifications.

但我确实为使用两个德语单词而道歉，我知道这会产生负面影响。

Perhaps three Latin words would have been better, so I will never use a German word again, including huetchenspiel, gnadige frau, or meine damen und herren.

也许三个拉丁词会更好，所以我再也不会使用德语词了，包括huetchenspiel、gnadige frau或meine damen und herren。

Thank you.

谢谢。

The sieg heil moment caused what incivility almost always causes-- more incivility and then a communication breakdown.

围困时刻会导致不文明行为几乎总是会造成的后果——更多的不文明行为，然后导致沟通中断。

Here's what happened-- the Concord Monitor , Annmarie's paper, ran an editorial cartoon picturing Bill O'Brien with a Hitler mustache.

事情是这样的——安玛丽的报纸《协和监视器》刊登了一幅社论漫画，描绘比尔·奥布莱恩留着希特勒的小胡子。

The caption was, "if the mustache fits." Then, post-cartoon, Annmarie got shut out of a press conference which Speaker O'Brien held in his private office so that he could legally close the door in her face, while every other reporter in town streamed past her inside.

标题是“如果胡子合适的话。”然后，在漫画之后，安玛丽被排除在奥布莱恩议长在他的私人办公室举行的新闻发布会之外，这样他就可以合法地当着她的面关上门，而镇上的其他记者都从她身边涌过。

Why can't we come into this press conference?

为什么我们不能参加这个新闻发布会？

The invite does not say invite only.

邀请函上并没有只说邀请。

It wasn't sent to your organization.

它没有发送到您的组织。

Can you move that way, please?

请你往那边走好吗？

Excuse me.

打扰一下。

Matt, come in.

马特，进来吧。

Hi, Jamie.

嗨，杰米。

Are you waiting for him?

你在等他吗？

And then one day, following this getting shut out of his office, the press releases stopped, and we would not be getting any more press releases, we would not be getting any more access to the speaker's office until we could behave like professional journalists.

然后有一天，在他的办公室被拒之门外之后，新闻稿就停止了，我们不会再收到任何新闻稿，也不会再进入议长办公室，直到我们能够像专业记者一样行事。

Shutting out the capital paper from House business, that made national news.

将资本票据排除在众议院业务之外，这成了全国新闻。

It's unprecedented in New Hampshire and most other places.

这在新罕布什尔州和大多数其他地方都是史无前例的。

Annmarie had told me about this back when it happened, but what I hadn't realized until now is that she'd never been able to speak to O'Brien, even from the beginning.

事情发生时，安娜玛丽就告诉过我这件事，但直到现在我才意识到，她从未能够与奥布莱恩交谈过，甚至从一开始就是如此。

Before they'd even been introduced, he'd made up his mind about her and about the newspaper.

在他们被介绍之前，他就对她和报纸下定了决心。

To him, it was just a mouthpiece for the Democrats.

对他来说，这只是民主党的喉舌。

What was the point of a conversation?

谈话的重点是什么？

I don't want our state to become-- there's this saying in the court system that you can always tell when a lawyer from Massachusetts is in a New Hampshire court because they're so combative.

我不希望我们的州变成——法庭系统里有这样一句话，当马萨诸塞州的律师在新罕布什尔州法庭上时，你总能看出来，因为他们太好斗了。

I don't want my state to become like a Massachusetts lawyer in a New Hampshire court.

我不希望我的州变得像新罕布什尔州法庭上的马萨诸塞州律师一样。

But I understand if the people of the state are aware of what's going on and they're paying attention and they are fine with that, then I'm not in the majority.

但我理解，如果该州人民知道正在发生的事情并且他们正在关注并且他们对此感到满意，那么我就不是大多数人。

The GOP primary in September was the first real test of whether voters were liking this new style of Republican politics.

九月份的共和党初选是对选民是否喜欢这种新型共和党政治的第一次真正考验。

In the results, moderates took a beating.

结果，温和派遭到了打击。

More than ever before, they were attacked with PAC money from inside and outside the state and by their own party.

他们比以往任何时候都更受到来自州内外以及本党的政治行动委员会资金的攻击。

In a place where campaigning for the House used to mean buying some lawn signs and calling it a day, now just like in small races all over the country, there are great big signs on the road sides and slick attack mailers and mysterious money flowing in.

在这个地方，竞选众议院议员过去意味着购买一些草坪标牌，然后就结束了，现在就像全国各地的小型竞选一样，路边有巨大的标牌，光滑的攻击邮件和神秘的资金涌入。

The mailers largely targeted Republicans who voted against New Hampshire's right-to-work bill, a union-weakening measure, based on model legislation written by ALEC, the American Legislative Exchange Council.

这些邮件主要针对投票反对新罕布什尔州工作权法案的共和党人，该法案是一项削弱工会的措施，基于美国立法交流委员会 ALEC 制定的示范立法。

These ads were paid for by groups like Americans for Prosperity, the Tea Party group that's funded nationally by the Koch brothers.

这些广告是由“美国繁荣”等团体支付的，这是一个由科赫兄弟在全国范围内资助的茶党团体。

Right-to-work was Speaker O'Brien's priority in New Hampshire and AFP's priority.

工作权是新罕布什尔州议长奥布莱恩的首要任务，也是法新社的首要任务。

But it didn't survive the governor's veto.

但它没能通过州长的否决。

Here's moderate Dave Kidder again.

温和的戴夫·基德又来了。

Democrats they don't mind.

民主党人不介意。

It's the moderate Republicans that they really, really despise.

他们真正非常鄙视的是温和的共和党人。

So they'd rather have a Democrat elected than you?

所以他们宁愿让民主党人当选而不是你？

Correct.

正确的。

That's why we talk about the Republicans eating their own.

这就是为什么我们谈论共和党人吃自己的东西。

This is exactly what we're talking about.

这正是我们正在讨论的。

And it's just crazy.

这太疯狂了。

A few long-time moderates lost their primaries, like Julie Brown, the elderly lady who shielded Vaillancourt from the Sergeant-at-Arms, while a few others squeaked by.

一些长期的温和派在初选中落败，比如朱莉·布朗（Julie Brown），这位老妇人保护了瓦扬古免受军士的伤害，而其他一些人则勉强度日。

The primary knocked out some old-school conservative Republicans too, like the war reenactor David Welch after 14 terms in the House.

初选也淘汰了一些老派保守派共和党人，比如在众议院连任 14 届的战争重演者戴维·韦尔奇 (David Welch)。

He said after he refused to take a walk on the right-to-work, vote, O'Brien warned him there would be consequences.

他说，在他拒绝就工作权投票进行散步后，奥布莱恩警告他这样做会产生后果。

Susan Emerson, the lady who got yelled at, had eight different mailers targeting her.

被骂的女士苏珊·爱默生(Susan Emerson) 有八个不同的邮件针对她。

That's unheard of in New Hampshire.

这在新罕布什尔州是闻所未闻的。

The mailers depict her as a union toady and a big fat taxer and spender.

邮寄者把她描绘成一个工会谄媚者、一个肥胖的纳税人和挥​​金如土的人。

Here's moderate Republican Alida Millham.

这是温和派共和党人阿莉达·米尔汉姆的发言。

It's interesting being a target.

成为目标很有趣。

I mean, I'm a pretty mild person.

我的意思是，我是一个很温和的人。

She decided not to run again this time around, despite her reputation as a consensus builder on the Health and Human Services committee.

尽管她在卫生与公共服务委员会中享有共识构建者的声誉，但她决定这次不再参选。

She feels like ever since moderate has become a bad word in New Hampshire politics, her talents don't matter anymore.

她觉得自从“温和”在新罕布什尔州政治中成为一个坏词以来，她的才能就不再重要了。

She's become useless.

她已经变得没用了

And ideology, she said, doesn't need to deliberate.

她说，意识形态不需要深思熟虑。

No one's listening.

没有人在听。

I think that there was a point time when I thought, well, that's a role that I fill is hey, we'll take this from this and this from that and see if we can make something work.

我想，有一个时刻，我想，好吧，我所扮演的角色是，嘿，我们将从中汲取这个，从那个汲取这个，看看我们是否可以做出一些事情。

But that doesn't exist anymore.

但那已经不存在了。

And it's, oh, we don't want anybody in the middle.

哦，我们不希望任何人介入。

We want our one bite at the apple, and we want it all.

我们想要咬一口苹果，我们想要全部。

Looked at one way, what's happened in New Hampshire in the past two years is a coarsening of debate, a cheapening of government.

从某个角度来看，过去两年新罕布什尔州发生的事情是辩论的粗化和政府的贬低。

But looked at another way, it's democracy doing what it should-- reflecting a new set of values from the ground up.

但从另一个角度来看，民主正在做它应该做的事——从头开始反映一套新的价值观。

After all, Bill O'Brien and his cohort didn't seize power.

毕竟，比尔·奥布莱恩和他的同伙并没有夺取权力。

They were elected.

他们当选了。

And the question this election will answer is, is all this an aberration, or is this just the new New Hampshire?

这次选举将回答的问题是，这一切是一种反常现象，还是这只是新罕布什尔州？

If you look at polls from the University of New Hampshire Survey Center, this is what you learn.

如果您查看新罕布什尔大学调查中心的民意调查，您就会了解到这一点。

Voters are split over whether the legislature is doing a good job, split over how it handled the budget, though a majority say the state is heading in the right direction.

选民们对于立法机关是否做得很好以及如何处理预算存在分歧，尽管大多数人认为州政府正朝着正确的方向前进。

They're with the legislature on right-to-work but against it on the repeal of gay marriage.

他们支持立法机关支持工作权，但反对废除同性婚姻。

Interestingly, and the pollster calls this, quote, "a significant change," when people were asked to list the biggest problems facing the state, Republicans in the legislature has consistently made it into the top five since May of 2011.

有趣的是，当人们被要求列出该州面临的最大问题时，民意调查机构称之为“重大变化”，自 2011 年 5 月以来，立法机构中的共和党人一直进入前五名。

If the numbers seem contradictory, it's maybe because the last couple of years has been such a new and confounding experience for New Hampshire.

如果这些数字看起来矛盾，那可能是因为过去几年对新罕布什尔州来说是一次全新且令人困惑的经历。

One person compared it to what things felt like during the Civil Rights movement, which is maybe a little overblown.

有人将其与民权运动期间的感觉进行了比较，这可能有点夸张。

But they're similar in this way-- it's such a fundamental rethinking of what kind of place New Hampshire wants to be, and the two sides are so far apart that until they all agree on where they're going, it's going to be ugly.

但它们在这一点上是相似的——这是对新罕布什尔州想要成为什么样的地方的一次根本性的重新思考，而双方相距甚远，除非他们都就自己的发展方向达成一致，否则情况将会很丑陋。

Sarah Koenig is one of the producers of our program.

莎拉·科尼格 (Sarah Koenig) 是我们节目的制作人之一。

Miki Meek helped record that story.

米基·米克（Miki Meek）帮助记录了这个故事。

[MUSIC- "THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND" BY SHARON JONES & THE DAP KINGS]

[音乐 - SHARON JONES 和 DAP KINGS 的“THE LAND IS YOUR LAND”]

Well, our program was produced today by Sarah Koenig with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Jonathan Menjivar, Lisa Pollak, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.

今天我们的节目由 Sarah Koenig 与 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Jonathan Menjivar、Lisa Pollak、Brian Reed、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。

Our senior producer is Julie Snyder, production help from Tarek Fouda.

我们的高级制片人是 Julie Snyder，Tarek Fouda 提供制作帮助。

Seth Lind is our operations director.

塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。

Emily Condon's our production manager.

艾米丽·康登是我们的生产经理。

Elise Bergerson's our administrative assistant.

埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的行政助理。

Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddes.

Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddes 提供音乐帮助。

[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, thisamericanlife.org.

[致谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。

This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International, and instead of hearing from our boss at WBEZ, Torey Malatia this week, I thought it would be nice to play a real-life voice mail message from WBEZ's human resource manager, Dorse Kelly, who very well might be everybody's favorite WBEZ employee.

《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台播出，本周我没有听到 WBEZ 老板 Torey Malatia 的声音，而是想播放 WBEZ 人力资源经理 Dorse Kelly 的真实语音邮件，他很可能是每个人最喜欢的 WBEZ 员工。

She knows that I'm in New York City right now.

她知道我现在在纽约市。

She knows about the storm.

她知道风暴的事。

She knows I'm an atheist.

她知道我是无神论者。

We have discussed our faiths.

我们讨论了我们的信仰。

We do not agree about that stuff at all.

我们在这些事情上完全不同意。

She left me this message this week.

这周她给我留言了。

Ira Glass, Dorse Kelly.

艾拉·格拉斯，多尔斯·凯利。

Just calling to check on you guys and see if you're OK.

只是打电话来看看你们是否还好。

New York has been hit by the vengeance of the devil.

纽约遭到了魔鬼的报复。

So anyway, just calling to check and see if you guys are OK.

所以无论如何，只是打电话来看看你们是否还好。

All right?

好的？

And I pray that all is well.

我祈祷一切都好。

Talk to you later.

我们回聊。

Bye bye.

再见。

Thanks, Dorse.

谢谢，多尔斯。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Back next week.

下周回来。

This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.

《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。