475: Send a Message - This American Life
You are using an outdated browser.
您正在使用过时的浏览器。
Please upgrade your browser or activate Google Chrome Frame to improve your experience.
请升级您的浏览器或激活 Google Chrome 浏览器内嵌框架以改善您的体验。
Sign up for a free Life Partners trial, and you can watch the video “A Night of Stories and Improv.”
注册免费试用《Life Partners》，您可以观看视频“故事与即兴表演之夜”。
00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #475 | September 13, 2013 475: Send a Message Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 475 集 | 2013 年 9 月 13 日 475：发送消息 注意：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Josh Bearman heard this story as a kid.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 乔什·贝尔曼小时候听过这个故事。
His dad is a physicist and told it to him.
他的父亲是一位物理学家，并告诉了他。
And it just stuck with him.
这件事一直困扰着他。
He's a reporter.
他是一名记者。
And he checked it out recently.
而且他最近检查了一遍。
The story is true.
这个故事是真的。
It involves two scientists.
它涉及两名科学家。
One you have definitely heard of, Galileo.
你肯定听说过伽利略。
The other you may not know, you may just vaguely recall.
其他的你可能不知道，你可能只是依稀记得。
He's one of the big iconic figures of early astronomy, Johannes Kepler.
他是早期天文学的标志性人物之一约翰内斯·开普勒。
He discovered the laws of planetary motion.
他发现了行星运动的规律。
He figured out that tides were caused by the moon's gravity.
他发现潮汐是由月球引力引起的。
He's a big guy.
他是个大人物。
And in the year 1610, Galileo is in Italy.
1610年，伽利略在意大利。
Kepler is in Prague.
开普勒在布拉格。
And Kepler is further along in his career.
开普勒在他的职业生涯中走得更远。
He's a court astronomer.
他是一名宫廷天文学家。
Galileo had just made his first telescope a year before.
一年前，伽利略刚刚制造出了他的第一台望远镜。
And Josh says Galileo and Kepler, they're writing back and forth.
乔什说伽利略和开普勒，他们正在来回写作。
And Galileo, at a certain point, decided to communicate one of his very important discoveries to Kepler with an anagram, which is essentially a word scramble.
伽利略在某个时候决定用字谜法向开普勒传达他的一项非常重要的发现，这本质上是一个单词的混乱。
Right.
正确的。
He just scrambles the letters.
他只是把字母打乱。
Wait, wait, why does he decide to do that?
等等，等等，他为什么决定这么做？
Well, there's a couple of purposes.
嗯，有几个目的。
One is he's sending the message in code so that at some later date he can always unscramble the code and say, see, as of this date, I had made this discovery.
一是他以代码形式发送消息，以便在以后的某个日期他可以随时解读代码并说，看，截至目前，我已经有了这个发现。
Essentially, the anagram was some kind of, like, patent or copyright insurance on the idea or the discovery.
本质上，字谜是某种想法或发现的专利或版权保险。
Remember science itself is so new.
请记住，科学本身是如此新。
There aren't scientific journals yet.
目前还没有科学期刊。
Short of publishing a little book, this was the kind of thing you had to resort to to prove that you found something.
除了出版一本小书之外，这是你必须诉诸的事情来证明你发现了一些东西。
And the anagrams were publicity.
这些字谜词就是宣传。
They were a way for Galileo to generate interest in his work.
它们是伽利略激发人们对其工作兴趣的一种方式。
To get the attention of the great Kepler at the Royal Court.
为了引起宫廷伟大的开普勒的注意。
And they're kind of toying with poor Kepler.
他们有点在玩弄可怜的开普勒。
One of Kepler's guys in Prague even writes Galileo at one point, stop toying with us.
开普勒在布拉格的一个人甚至一度写过伽利略，别再玩弄我们了。
Tell us what it means.
告诉我们这意味着什么。
So the first anagram was about Saturn's rings.
所以第一个字谜是关于土星环的。
Galileo had seen that Saturn had rings.
伽利略发现土星有光环。
The anagram itself was just a jumble of letters, didn't make any sense.
字谜本身只是一堆字母的杂乱，没有任何意义。
And he sent it.
他发送了它。
And several months go by.
几个月过去了。
And Kepler is thinking, OK, great.
开普勒在想，好吧，太好了。
I'm going to decode the anagram.
我要解码这个字谜词。
And then he's having trouble.
然后他就有麻烦了。
And he actually keeps asking Galileo, like, come on.
他实际上一直在问伽利略，比如，来吧。
I want to know what's in here.
我想知道这里有什么。
And Galileo refuses.
伽利略拒绝了。
And then Kepler decodes it himself and comes up with what he thinks the solution is and then publishes that solution.
然后开普勒自己解码它并提出他认为的解决方案，然后发布该解决方案。
But he was wrong.
但他错了。
I mean, Galileo's message in Latin was, [LATIN].
我的意思是，伽利略的拉丁语信息是，[拉丁语]。
Meaning roughly, I've observed the highest planet, which was Saturn.
粗略地说，我观察到了最高的行星，那就是土星。
That was the furthest planet they knew about at the time.
那是他们当时所知道的最遥远的行星。
And it's made of three bodies.
它由三个身体组成。
Meaning he thought that there were actually two.
这意味着他认为实际上有两个。
He thought the rings were two little orbiting-- he didn't quite see that they were rings yet.
他认为这些环是两个绕轨道运行的小环——他还没有完全看出它们是环。
But then, ultimately, that's what they were discovered to be.
但最终，这就是它们被发现的原因。
And Kepler decoded it thinking, with very sort of bad Latin-- he really had to kind of wrestle the Latin into place to make it work out.
开普勒用非常糟糕的拉丁语思考解码了它——他确实必须将拉丁语拼凑到位才能使其发挥作用。
But he thought it was saying that Mars has two moons, actually.
但他认为这实际上是在说火星有两个卫星。
[LATIN].
[拉丁]。
So that's kind of some--
所以这有点——
And what's what mean?
还有什么意思呢？
Josh Bearman --half Latin.
乔什·贝尔曼（Josh Bearman）——一半拉丁语。
That means, hail, double knob, children of Mars.
这意味着，冰雹，双旋钮，火星的孩子。
You heard that right, hail, double knob, children of Mars.
你没听错，冰雹，双旋钮，火星的孩子们。
Which Josh says, even for the time, even in Latin, didn't sound so great.
乔什所说的，即使在当时，即使是拉丁语，听起来也不是那么好。
You know the double knob, the children are Mars's two moons.
你知道双旋钮，孩子们是火星的两个卫星。
He sort of thought, based on the way he viewed the universe, which had this kind of mystical, numerological sensibility, that Mars ought to have two moons.
基于他看待宇宙的方式，他认为火星应该有两个卫星，这种方式具有神秘的、数字上的敏感性。
So he thought, well, of course.
所以他想，好吧，当然。
That's what this must mean.
这就是这个意思。
And he sort of unscrambled the words to make Latin symbolic phrases that meant Mars had two moons.
他将这些单词解读为拉丁语象征性短语，意味着火星有两个卫星。
So he sort of interpreted it how we wanted, essentially.
所以他基本上按照我们想要的方式解释了它。
But that was not what Galileo was trying to say at all.
但这根本不是伽利略想说的。
However, it turned out to be correct.
然而，事实证明这是正确的。
Mars does have two moons.
火星确实有两个卫星。
Josh Bearman Mars does have two moons.
乔什·贝尔曼 火星确实有两个卫星。
It was not known for another 200-some-odd years, quite some time, that Mars had two moons.
又过了 200 多年，相当长的一段时间，人们才知道火星有两个卫星。
But it does.
但确实如此。
These moons would be impossible for Kepler or anybody to see with the technology at the time.
以当时的技术，开普勒或任何人都不可能看到这些卫星。
But Kepler just wanted them to be there.
但开普勒只是希望他们在那里。
And he got lucky.
他很幸运。
And not long after Kepler gets this first anagram wrong, though sort of weirdly right--
就在开普勒把第一个字谜弄错之后不久，尽管有点奇怪地正确——
Galileo sent another anagram, saying, here's another great discovery.
伽利略又发了一个字谜，说，这是另一个伟大的发现。
I've looked through my magical eye piece.
我已经通过我的魔法目镜看了。
And check this out.
看看这个。
In that case, what Galileo had seen was that Venus has phases.
在这种情况下，伽利略看到的是金星有相位。
like the moon.
就像月亮一样。
In other words, there's a quarter Venus, and then half Venus, and 3/4 Venus, and full Venus.
换句话说，有四分之一的金星，然后是一半的金星，还有3/4的金星，还有完整的金星。
Which meant that it must probably be going around the Sun, which was a really big deal.
这意味着它可能绕着太阳转，这确实是一件大事。
Galileo was in the process of gathering evidence that the Sun was at the center of the solar system and not the Earth, which of course was not just in dispute at the time but actual heresy.
伽利略正在收集证据，证明太阳位于太阳系的中心，而不是地球，这当然不仅在当时存在争议，而且实际上是异端邪说。
So that was a big discovery.
所以这是一个重大发现。
That one, actually, the anagram itself, the words that Galileo sent, did mean something.
事实上，这个字谜本身，伽利略发出的话语，确实意味着什么。
And they were sort of like, oh, I'm not quite ready to say what I'm saying here.
他们有点像，哦，我还没有准备好说出我在这里所说的话。
In Latin.
拉丁语。
Josh Bearman In Latin.
乔什·贝尔曼（Josh Bearman）拉丁文。
Although it's funny, because there were just a couple of extra letters.
虽然这很有趣，因为只有几个额外的字母。
Like, he made the anagram.
就像，他做了这个字谜。
And then there was O, Y.
然后是O、Y。
And he's like, I don't know what to do with these.
他说，我不知道该怎么处理这些。
And they're just hanging on the end.
他们只是悬在最后。
And it looks like he's saying, I'm not quite ready to say this, oy.
看起来他是在说，我还没准备好说这个，哦。
Like, you know, palm to the forehead, sitting there with some matzo ball soup and a telescope.
就像，你知道的，手掌放在前额上，拿着一些无酵饼汤和一架望远镜坐在那里。
So in Latin, this scramble message-- and you should write this down if you're trying to match wits with these guys at home-- was [LATIN].
所以在拉丁语中，这个争夺信息——如果你想在家里与这些家伙斗智斗勇，你应该把它写下来——是[拉丁语]。
Unscrambled, it delivers the news that Venus has phases, like the moon.
经过解读，它传达了金星有相位的消息，就像月亮一样。
But, shocker, Kepler does not figure that out.
但是，令人震惊的是，开普勒并没有弄清楚这一点。
An he thinks that what Galileo is saying with that anagram is that Jupiter has a red spot that moves according to a mathematical-- there's a phrase that's like, Jupiter's red spot moving mathematically, or something.
他认为伽利略用这个字谜词表达的是木星有一个根据数学移动的红点——有一个短语，就像木星的红点根据数学移动，或者其他什么。
Which, of course, also is true and also unknown for another 200 years.
当然，这也是事实，但在接下来的 200 年里仍然未知。
And it moves around the planet.
它绕着地球移动。
And so Kepler was right, even though he was wrong, sort of reading into this message something that he wanted to see.
所以开普勒是对的，尽管他错了，他在这条信息中解读了一些他想看到的东西。
As Josh points out, this is a crazy guess.
正如乔什指出的那样，这是一个疯狂的猜测。
For Kepler to think that that other anagram meant Mars has two moons, well, having two moons is kind of a normal thing.
对于开普勒来说，另一个字谜意味着火星有两个卫星，嗯，有两个卫星是很正常的事情。
The Earth has one moon.
地球有一个月亮。
They could see four moons around Jupiter at the time.
当时他们可以看到木星周围有四个卫星。
Mars might have two moons.
火星可能有两个卫星。
The red spot just sort of makes no sense.
红点有点没有意义。
And that was as random a guess as you could imagine.
这是你能想象到的随机猜测。
Oh, right.
哦，对了。
We don't think that planets will have just, like, a big red spot on them.
我们不认为行星上只会有一个大红点。
Yeah.
是的。
And I remember even when my dad was telling me about this, I asked him if he knew.
我记得当我父亲告诉我这件事时，我问他是否知道。
And he said, no, he couldn't have known unless he was an alien, and he had visited Jupiter.
他说，不，除非他是外星人，而且他访问过木星，否则他不可能知道。
Which is not likely.
这不太可能。
And then my dad, who's a scientist, they always say things are never impossible.
我的父亲是一位科学家，他们总是说事情永远不可能不可能。
He says, it's not impossible.
他说，这并非不可能。
But it's also not very likely.
但这也不太可能。
Yeah, precision.
是啊，精准。
Ira Glass This story stayed with Josh, that a guy would send a message that he probably hopes will never be decoded.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 这个故事一直萦绕在乔什的心头，一个人会发送一条他可能希望永远不会被破译的消息。
And then it gets decoded, but incorrectly.
然后它被解码，但不正确。
And then the wrong message turns out to be right not once but two times.
然后错误的信息被证明是正确的，不是一次，而是两次。
It makes you feel like communication between people can misfire in such totally random ways.
这让你感觉人与人之间的沟通可能会以完全随机的方式失败。
And that is what today's show is about.
这就是今天节目的主题。
We have people trying to send messages of various sorts, including messages delivered through incredible means by questionable messengers, messages from beyond the grave.
我们有人试图发送各种信息，包括由可疑的信使通过令人难以置信的方式传递的信息，来自坟墓之外的信息。
There's a message delivered entirely by swapping one statue for another in a classroom.
完全通过在教室里将一尊雕像换成另一尊雕像来传递信息。
Some of these messages get through accurately, some do not.
其中一些消息可以准确传达，有些则不能。
Some transmit information not intended by anyone.
有些传输的信息不是任何人想要的。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, "Motherhood of the Traveling Pants."
第一幕，“旅行裤的母性”。
We being today with a series of messages that have gone back and forth within one family for over 35 years.
今天我们要传达的一系列信息已经在一个家庭中来回传递了超过 35 年。
They are uncanny.
他们是不可思议的。
They are mysterious.
他们很神秘。
They are inexplicable in their accuracy.
它们的准确性令人费解。
Brian Reed explains.
布莱恩·里德解释道。
A few weeks ago, I talked to a woman named Melissa Salpietra.
几周前，我与一位名叫梅丽莎·萨尔皮特拉（Melissa Salpietra）的女士交谈过。
She's pregnant, so she had a lot on her mind.
她怀孕了，所以心里有很多事情。
But the thing she was obsessing over most-- more than baby names, or strollers, or the new house she and her husband recently bought-- was this package that had arrived in the mail with her name on it.
但她最着迷的事情——不仅仅是婴儿的名字、婴儿车或她和她丈夫最近买的新房子——是这个写着她名字的包裹。
I haven't seen it yet.
我还没看到呢。
I have been away from home.
我已经离开家了。
And the package came to me at my house in North Carolina.
包裹送到了我在北卡罗来纳州的家里。
And I've been in New England for the summer.
我夏天一直在新英格兰。
But it probably is some sort of padded manila envelope that you get at, like, Staples or something.
但它可能是某种你能买到的带衬垫的马尼拉信封，比如史泰博之类的。
And my husband is going to bring it to me this weekend.
我丈夫这个周末会把它带给我。
And if I open it up and there's a pair of pants in it, I'm going to have a boy.
如果我打开它，里面有一条裤子，我就会生一个男孩。
But if I open it up and there is a little pink dress, I'm going to be having a girl.
但如果我打开它，里面有一条粉红色的小裙子，我就会生一个女孩。
Now I've never been pregnant before.
现在我以前从未怀孕过。
And I don't have kids.
而且我没有孩子。
But it's my impression that this is not how an unborn baby's sex is normally determined.
但我的印象是，这并不是通常确定未出生婴儿性别的方式。
From what I understand, there are these things called chromosomes and then some procedure known as a sonogram.
据我了解，有一些称为染色体的东西，还有一些称为超声检查的程序。
But in Melissa's family, they don't bother with that stuff.
但在梅丽莎的家里，他们并不关心这些事情。
Instead--
相反——
You get sent the prediction of your sex in the mail.
您会通过邮件收到对您性别的预测。
You get not even the prediction, you get sent the foretelling of what you're going to have, a boy or a girl.
你甚至没有得到预测，你得到的是关于你将要拥有的东西的预言，一个男孩还是一个女孩。
This is a longstanding tradition in Melissa's family.
这是梅丽莎家族长期以来的传统。
Three generations have participated in it, more than 20 babies.
已经有三代人、20多个宝宝参加了。
Family legend is the prediction has been right every time.
家族传奇是预言每次都是正确的。
It all began more than 35 years ago with Melissa's great-grandmother, Carmela Calanni, AKA, Nonna.
这一切都始于 35 多年前，梅丽莎的曾祖母卡梅拉·卡拉尼 (Carmela Calanni)，又名农娜 (Nonna)。
Nonna had moved here from Sicily when she was a teenager.
诺娜十几岁时从西西里岛搬到了这里。
She made her living as a seamstress.
她以裁缝为生。
She was quiet, unassuming.
她很安静，不张扬。
She baked bread, and made lasagna from scratch, and went to church every day.
她烤面包，从头开始做烤宽面条，每天都去教堂。
But Melissa says there was more to Nonna than met the eye.
但梅丽莎说，诺娜的魅力远不止表面所见。
The thought was Nonna had some sort of direct line to God.
人们认为诺娜与上帝有某种直接的联系。
And her and God were like peas in a pod.
她和上帝就像豆荚里的豌豆。
And she could ask.
她可以问。
And she would receive.
她会收到的。
So whenever you wanted something, you would ask her.
所以当你想要什么东西的时候，你就会问她。
And she would go light a candle for you at the church.
她会去教堂为你点燃蜡烛。
And then you'd get it.
然后你就会得到它。
Hoping to nail that job interview?
希望顺利通过面试吗？
Talk to Nonna.
与诺娜交谈。
Trying to buy a new house?
试图买新房？
Go see Nonna.
去见诺娜吧。
She didn't even make you kiss her hand.
她甚至没有让你亲吻她的手。
So years before Melissa was born, when one of Nonna's grandsons announced that his wife was expecting a baby, he went to Nonna and asked for a little favor.
梅丽莎出生前几年，当诺娜的一个孙子宣布他的妻子怀孕了时，他去找诺娜请求一点帮助。
He told her he wanted a boy.
他告诉她他想要一个男孩。
Here's Melissa's mom, Mary Annette, who was around at the time.
这是梅丽莎的妈妈玛丽·安妮特，当时她就在附近。
And so Nonna decided she was going to make sure he has the boy.
所以诺娜决定她要确保他拥有这个男孩。
So she showed up at a family function with this little pair of pants and just said, here.
所以她穿着这条小裤子出现在一个家庭活动中，然后说，在这里。
Make the first born be a boy.
让第一个出生的是男孩。
Nonna had sewn these pants herself.
这条裤子是诺娜自己缝制的。
They were brown polyester with belt loops and a zipper.
它们是棕色聚酯纤维，带有皮带环和拉链。
They looked like a pair of pants your great grandfather might wear if he was the size of a doll.
它们看起来就像你的曾祖父如果有洋娃娃那么大的话可能会穿的一条裤子。
Here's Mary Annette.
这是玛丽·安妮特。
You know, we joke.
你知道，我们开玩笑。
We laughed and thought, oh my God, look at this little polyester pair of pants, little old man pants.
我们笑着想，天啊，看看这条涤纶小裤子，小老头裤。
And at that time, you didn't do sonograms.
那时，你没有做超声波检查。
You didn't find out the sex of babies before you were born.
在你出生之前你并没有知道婴儿的性别。
So we just waited.
所以我们只是等待。
And when the first born was born, it was a boy.
当第一个孩子出生时，是一个男孩。
Did you guys have a moment where you said, oh, wow, Nonna was right?
你们是否有过这样的时刻：哦，哇，诺娜是对的？
Yes.
是的。
We all said that.
我们都这么说。
Oh, hey, she picked it.
哦，嘿，她选的。
Great.
伟大的。
Now, just a heads up here.
现在，请注意。
Nonna had this big Sicilian family.
诺娜有一个西西里大家庭。
And their names are what one might call variations on a theme.
他们的名字可以称之为主题的变体。
There's Mary Annette, Mary Anne, Roseanne, Joanne, Melissa Anne.
有玛丽·安妮特、玛丽·安妮、罗珊妮、乔安妮、梅丽莎·安妮。
So the woman who had this first baby boy was Mary Anne.
所以生下第一个男婴的女人就是玛丽·安妮。
She named her son Tony and stitched his name on the tiny pair of pants.
她给儿子取名托尼，并将他的名字缝在这条小裤子上。
And then for some mysterious reason, without even being instructed by Nonna, when the next woman in the family got pregnant--
然后，出于某种神秘的原因，甚至没有得到诺娜的指示，当家里的下一位女性怀孕了——
She just automatically when she found out I was pregnant, she packaged it up and mailed it to me as a good luck charm.
当她发现我怀孕时，她自然而然地把它包装起来寄给我作为幸运符。
This is Roseanne, the next of Nonna's grand-kids to have a baby.
这是罗珊妮 (Roseanne)，诺娜 (Nonna) 的下一个生孩子的孙子。
You know, I just got the pants and assumed I was to have a boy.
你知道，我刚拿到裤子就以为我会生个男孩。
I know.
我知道。
When I think bad it's like, I don't know, kind of weird.
当我想到不好的时候，我不知道，有点奇怪。
Because honestly, my husband and I never gave it a thought.
因为说实话，我和我丈夫从来没有想过。
I mean, we truly did not have a girl's name picked out.
我的意思是，我们确实没有选出一个女孩的名字。
Because you got a little pair of pants in the mail, you just were sure you were having a boy?
因为你收到了一条小裤子，你就确定你怀的是男孩？
It was meant to be a boy.
它本来是一个男孩。
It was meant to be.
本来就是这样的。
It was going to be.
本来就是这样的。
And what did you have?
你有什么？
Woman 1 I had my son, Tommy.
女人 1 我有我的儿子，汤米。
Meanwhile across the Atlantic Ocean, Mary Annette was on the verge of having a baby.
与此同时，大西洋彼岸的玛丽·安妮特即将生孩子。
She was living in Italy at the time.
当时她住在意大利。
And she was due just a few weeks after Roseanne.
她的预产期比罗珊娜晚几周。
So [Roseanne stitched her newborn son's name on the pair of pants.
所以[Roseanne把她刚出生的儿子的名字缝在这条裤子上。
Packaged it up and mailed it to Mary Annette, thinking that that's what she would want, you know, a boy.
将其打包并邮寄给玛丽·安妮特，她认为这就是她想要的，你知道，一个男孩。
I wanted the girl.
我想要那个女孩。
I wanted to be the first one to have the girl in the family.
我想成为家里第一个拥有这个女孩的人。
There Mary Annette was, lying in a hospital bed back in the old country, about to go into labor any day, fantasizing about her new baby girl.
玛丽·安妮特躺在祖国的医院病床上，幻想着她的新宝贝女儿，随时可能临产。
And my husband comes in after work one day.
有一天我丈夫下班后进来了。
And he says, I picked up the mail, here.
他说，我在这里收到了邮件。
It was this manila envelope.
就是这个马尼拉信封。
I thought it was pictures of her baby.
我以为那是她孩子的照片。
I thought it was, you know, newborn baby, they sent me pictures.
我以为那是刚出生的婴儿，他们给我发了照片。
So I opened the envelope.
于是我打开了信封。
And out falls the little brown pants.
棕色的小裤子掉了出来。
And I screamed.
我尖叫起来。
I went, oh, bleep, bleep, bleep.
我去了，哦，嘟嘟，嘟嘟，嘟嘟。
[LAUGHS].
[笑]。
You swore?
你发誓了吗？
Melissa's Mom I did.
梅丽莎的妈妈我做到了。
I said, oh, no. I wanted the girl.
我说，哦，不。我想要那个女孩。
A few days later, Mary Annette had a son.
几天后，玛丽·安妮特生了一个儿子。
After that, we all looked at Nonna.
说完，我们都看向了诺娜。
Then we asked.
然后我们问。
We all looked at Nonna and said, OK, how about a dress now?
我们都看着诺娜说，好吧，现在买件衣服怎么样？
Nonna abided.
诺娜遵守了。
She sewed a miniature pink satin dress and gave it to Mary Anne, who was pregnant with her second baby.
她缝制了一件微型粉色缎子连衣裙，并将其送给怀有第二个孩子的玛丽·安妮。
And the rest was like clockwork.
其余的事情就像发条一样。
Mary Anne had a girl.
玛丽·安妮有一个女孩。
She sent Roseanne the dress.
她把裙子寄给了罗珊娜。
Roseanne had a girl.
罗珊娜有一个女孩。
She sent Mary Annette the dress.
她把裙子送给了玛丽·安妮特。
Mary Annette had a girl, and then another girl.
玛丽·安妮特生了一个女孩，然后又生了一个女孩。
Nonna wasn't directing this.
这不是诺娜导演的。
But everyone knew where the power originated.
但所有人都知道这力量的来源。
Nonna was batting seven for seven.
诺娜七投七中击球。
A few years passed.
几年过去了。
And then Nonna's prediction powers reached a turning point.
然后诺娜的预测能力到达了转折点。
Because Mary Annette was the last one to have a boy and the last one to have a girl, which means she had possession of both the pants and the dress.
因为玛丽·安妮特是最后一个生男孩的人，也是最后一个生女孩的人，这意味着她同时拥有裤子和裙子。
So when Mary Annette's sister-in-law announced that she was having a baby, it was up to Mary Annette alone to decide which one to send.
因此，当玛丽·安妮特的嫂子宣布她要生孩子时，由玛丽·安妮特独自决定送哪个孩子。
The power to determine the sex of this woman's baby was in Mary Annette's hands.
决定这个女人孩子性别的权力掌握在玛丽·安妮特手中。
And I'm sitting in my family room getting the pants, getting the dress, getting the envelope ready with her address, her name and address, to send.
我坐在我的家庭活动室里拿裤子，拿裙子，准备好信封，上面写着她的地址，她的名字和地址，要寄出去。
And then sitting there looking at these two items, I said, I have a choice to make.
然后坐在那里看着这两个项目，我说，我要做出选择。
And I don't know how many times in and out that envelope went the dress or the pants, the dress or the pants, the dress or the pants.
我不知道那个信封把裙子或裤子、裙子或裤子、裙子或裤子进出了多少次。
And I said, I can't play God.
我说，我不能扮演上帝。
I'm going to have to let her choose.
我必须让她选择。
So I put the dress and the pants in the envelope, mailed them to her.
于是我把衣服和裤子装进信封，邮寄给她。
I called Mary Annette's sister-in-law, Joanne.
我给玛丽·安妮特的嫂子乔安妮打了电话。
She vividly remembers tearing open the envelope, the pants falling onto her kitchen counter, the dress tumbling out right after it.
她清楚地记得撕开信封，裤子掉到厨房柜台上，裙子也随之滚落。
A couple months later, the doctor told her she was having twins.
几个月后，医生告诉她，她怀上了双胞胎。
Joanne waited until she delivered her twins to find out what sex they were.
乔安妮直到生下双胞胎才知道他们的性别。
Though really, she knew all along.
虽然说实话，她一直都知道。
First off, he says, you have a son.
首先，他说，你有一个儿子。
And he handed me the baby.
然后他把孩子递给了我。
And I was like, oh my God, my boy.
我当时想，天哪，我的孩子。
I got my boy.
我得到了我的男孩。
And then I think they were only born one minute apart.
然后我想他们出生的时间只相隔一分钟。
He immediately then said, and you have a daughter.
他马上就说，你有一个女儿。
And it was just, of course.
当然，这只是。
It wasn't a surprise to me.
这对我来说并不意外。
[LAUGHS].
[笑]。
And were you just blown away?
你刚刚被震撼了吗？
Woman 2 Actually, Mary Annette, I think, was more blown away.
女人 2 事实上，我认为玛丽·安妮特更为震惊。
Because she freaked when I called her.
因为当我打电话给她时她吓坏了。
Oh my God, a boy and a girl.
天哪，一个男孩和一个女孩。
Oh my God, what did I do?
天哪，我做了什么？
[LAUGHS].
[笑]。
And I apologized.
我道歉了。
I did.
我做到了。
I said, I'm so sorry.
我说，非常抱歉。
I said, I know they're cute.
我说，我知道他们很可爱。
I don't know if you wanted two at a time.
不知道你是否想要一次两个。
[LAUGHS].
[笑]。
Now Nonna was nine for nine.
现在诺娜九比九。
The statistical odds of getting the prediction right that many times are less than 1 in 500.
多次预测正确的统计几率小于五百分之一。
Not to mention the fact that she predicted a boy girl set of twins.
更不用说她预言了一对双胞胎的男孩女孩。
And all of this rocketed Nonna from regular old clairvoyant grandma status to legend.
所有这一切都让诺娜从普通的有千里眼的老祖母的地位一跃成为传奇人物。
The pants and the dress became an institution.
裤子和裙子成了一种制度。
Even after Nonna died in 1999, they kept working.
即使在 1999 年 Nonna 去世后，他们仍然继续工作。
Kids who'd been predicted themselves the first time around were now having kids of their own.
那些一开始就被预言会成为自己孩子的孩子现在已经有了自己的孩子。
And Nonna kept getting it right.
诺娜一直做对了。
As the years went on, pants/dress protocol was codified.
随着时间的推移，裤子/连衣裙的协议被编入法典。
For instance, if someone else got pregnant while you were pregnant, you could not send them your garment until you had your baby.
例如，如果您怀孕期间其他人怀孕了，您在生下孩子之前无法将您的衣服寄给他们。
You had to wait until you stitched your child's name onto the pants or the dress.
您必须等到将孩子的名字缝在裤子或衣服上。
It's just the way it was done.
这就是它的完成方式。
And there were some close calls.
还有一些险些发生的情况。
There was one rogue baby, where the parents received neither the pants nor the dress.
有一个流氓婴儿，父母既没有收到裤子，也没有收到衣服。
They had a boy.
他们有一个男孩。
And the dress was misplaced for a couple of years.
这件衣服已经放错地方好几年了。
Though naturally, only boys were born during that period.
当然，那个时期只出生了男孩。
It then miraculously resurfaced just in time for the next girl.
然后它奇迹般地重新出现，正好赶上下一个女孩。
I went through the family tree.
我浏览了家谱。
And it turns out that of 21 predictions, Nonna was wrong two times.
事实证明，在 21 次预测中，诺娜错了两次。
Most family members were vague about this.
大多数家庭成员对此都含糊其辞。
They kind of had a sense that something might have gone awry a couple times.
他们有一种感觉，有几次可能出了问题。
But they were hazy on the details.
但他们对细节却很模糊。
But when I talked to Rick Salpietra, who lives out in California, he was clear about it.
但当我与住在加利福尼亚州的里克·萨尔皮特拉(Rick Salpietra)交谈时，他很清楚这一点。
He had two kids for whom Nonna's prediction wasn't right.
他有两个孩子，诺娜的预测对他们来说并不正确。
It happened 18 years ago.
事情发生在18年前。
Rick's twin brother Ron sent him the dress.
瑞克的双胞胎兄弟罗恩送给他这件衣服。
And it predicted Rick's first daughter correctly.
它正确地预测了瑞克的第一个女儿。
But then his brother sent him the pants.
但后来他哥哥把裤子送给了他。
And despite that, Rick's second child was a girl.
尽管如此，瑞克的第二个孩子还是个女孩。
When Rick's wife got pregnant a third time, and they had sent the dress away but still had the pants in their possession, they had another girl.
当里克的妻子第三次怀孕时，他们把裙子送走了，但裤子仍然在他们手中，他们又生了一个女孩。
The family has theories about what went wrong here.
对于这里出了什么问题，家人有不同的看法。
Maybe it was geography, the fact that Rick lives in California, so far away from the rest of the family.
也许是地理原因，瑞克住在加利福尼亚州，离家里其他人很远。
Or maybe it was because these two girls were the last kids in their generation.
或者也许是因为这两个女孩是她们这一代的最后一个孩子。
Nonna was at the end of her life when they were born and died not long after.
他们出生时，诺娜正处于生命的尽头，不久后就去世了。
It's possible her powers were diminished.
很可能她的力量被削弱了。
Still, the odds of Nonna predicting the sex correctly as many times as she did-- 19 of 21 babies-- are remarkable.
尽管如此，诺娜准确预测性别的几率（21 个婴儿中有 19 个）是惊人的。
I ran her record by several statisticians.
我让几位统计学家整理了她的记录。
And they said the odds are roughly 1 in 10,000.
他们说几率大约是万分之一。
Whatever the reason for her being wrong those two times, while lots of people in the family are still really into the pants and the dress, Rick, the father of the girls who were incorrectly predicted, says he purposely avoids talking to his daughters about the tradition, even though they're teenagers now.
无论她那两次错误的原因是什么，虽然家里很多人仍然非常喜欢裤子和裙子，但被错误预测的女孩的父亲里克表示，他故意避免与女儿们谈论这一传统，尽管她们现在已经十几岁了。
My middle daughter is sort of the more quiet, sensitive one.
我的二女儿是一个比较安静、敏感的女儿。
And I think she might be a little upset if she actually thought that the whole thing sort of broke down when it came to us getting the pants or the dress on her pregnancy.
我想，如果她真的认为当我们在她怀孕时给我们买裤子或裙子时，整个事情就崩溃了，我想她可能会有点不安。
And I don't know if I'd want to do that to her.
我不知道我是否愿意对她这样做。
Yeah, it's a weird thing to have to tell your kid.
是的，必须告诉你的孩子这是一件很奇怪的事情。
It is.
这是。
I mean, I don't know what to say.
我的意思是，我不知道该说什么。
I wouldn't want her to feel bad.
我不想让她感到难过。
I really wouldn't.
我真的不会。
I had no clue up until I got pregnant that this would weigh so heavily on me.
直到我怀孕之前，我都不知道这会对我造成如此沉重的负担。
Melissa, the woman who's pregnant right now, is desperately hoping that she never needs to sit down with her kid one day and say, you were inaccurately predicted.
梅丽莎，现在怀孕的女人，迫切希望有一天她永远不需要和她的孩子坐下来说，你的预测不准确。
You were a weak link.
你是一个薄弱环节。
At first she was really excited to get the pants or the dress, to take part in the tradition.
起初，她很高兴能得到裤子或裙子，参与这一传统。
After all, Melissa was predicted herself.
毕竟，梅丽莎本人就被预言了。
Her name is on the dress.
裙子上有她的名字。
But now she's just really worried that it'll be wrong.
但现在她真的很担心这会是错误的。
I mean, I'm embarrassed to actually say how much anxiety that it kind of has caused.
我的意思是，我很尴尬地说出它造成了多少焦虑。
Melissa's due in about three months.
梅丽莎大约三个月后预产期。
Remember, the situation right now is that her husband has received the package with the pants or the dress in it.
请记住，现在的情况是她的丈夫已经收到了里面有裤子或衣服的包裹。
But they're waiting to see each other before they open it.
但他们在打开门之前等待着见到对方。
Melissa really wants a boy.
梅丽莎真的想要一个男孩。
So she requested the pants from her sister-in-law.
于是她向嫂子要了这条裤子。
And she's guessing that's what's in the package, the pants.
她猜测这就是包裹里的东西，裤子。
Though it is possible that some people in the family conspired to send her the dress against her will.
不过也有可能是家里有人密谋违背她的意愿把这件衣服送给了她。
That has happened before.
这种事以前也发生过。
To add to the pressure, when Melissa and her husband went for their last ultrasound, they asked the doctor to write down the baby's sex and seal in an envelope for them to open later if they want to.
更雪上加霜的是，当梅丽莎和她的丈夫去做最后一次超声波检查时，他们要求医生写下婴儿的性别，并密封在一个信封中，以便以后如果愿意的话可以打开。
I don't know.
我不知道。
It's like this, we put ourselves in this situation now where we have two envelopes to open.
就像这样，我们现在把自己置于这样的境地：我们有两个信封要打开。
Not just one but two.
不只一个，而是两个。
And they can conflict.
他们可能会发生冲突。
Would you rather have a boy but have the prediction be wrong?
你宁愿要一个男孩，但预测是错误的吗？
Or would you rather have a girl and have the prediction be right?
或者你宁愿生一个女孩并且预测是正确的？
I would rather have the prediction be right.
我宁愿预测是正确的。
You didn't even hesitate with that question.
你连这个问题都没有犹豫。
No. I want the prediction.
不，我想要预测。
I want the prediction to be right.
我希望预测是正确的。
[PEOPLE CHATTING] Brian Reed A few days after I interviewed Melissa, I went to her baby shower in Ohio.
[人们聊天]布莱恩·里德 (Brian Reed) 在我采访梅丽莎几天后，我去了她在俄亥俄州的迎婴派对。
She had the ultrasound prediction with her.
她随身带着超声波预测仪。
And she and her husband were thinking about looking at it at some point during the day.
她和她的丈夫正在考虑在白天的某个时候查看它。
The night before, they'd opened the package with Nonna's prediction.
前一天晚上，他们打开了包裹，上面写着诺娜的预言。
And drumroll, please.
请击鼓。
I got the pants.
我拿到了裤子。
Opened up the package, and the pants were inside.
打开包装，里面是一条裤子。
Which should have been great news, right?
这应该是个好消息，对吧？
Melissa wants a boy.
梅丽莎想要一个男孩。
Are you excited?
你兴奋吗？
Melissa Yeah.
梅丽莎 是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yes, I am.
我是。
I'm glad to have them.
我很高兴拥有他们。
I thought I was going to feel a lot more confident that it would be a boy.
我想我会对这会是个男孩更有信心。
But I still don't.
但我还是不这么认为。
[LAUGHTER] Baby Shower Guests Put a onesie on a onesie, on a onesie, on a onesie.
[笑声]婴儿送礼会嘉宾将连体衣穿上连体衣，穿上连体衣，穿上连体衣。
Throughout the day, Melissa tried to just enjoy her baby shower and keep her mind off the very obvious question at hand.
一整天，梅丽莎都试图只是享受她的迎婴聚会，并把注意力从眼前的非常明显的问题上转移开。
But it was hard to ignore the fact that many of the activities were aggressively gender neutral, like the designs that women ironed onto outfits for the new baby.
但很难忽视这样一个事实，即许多活动都非常中性，比如女性为新生儿熨烫的服装设计。
There were giraffes, zebras, hats, umbrellas, but no pink ponies or blue dump trucks.
有长颈鹿、斑马、帽子、雨伞，但没有粉红色的小马或蓝色的自卸卡车。
There was the name game, led by Melissa's mom Mary Annette, Which had both a girls' round--
梅丽莎的妈妈玛丽·安妮特主持了名字游戏，其中有女子组——
The beginning of the day.
一天的开始。
Baby Shower Guests Dawn.
迎婴派对嘉宾黎明。
Correct.
正确的。
This month is the first one of summer.
这个月是立夏的第一个月。
June.
六月。
Melissa's Mom The night before a holiday.
梅丽莎的妈妈 假期前一天晚上。
Eve.
前夕。
Brian Reed And a boys' round.
布莱恩·里德 (Brian Reed) 还有男子组比赛。
Though the boys' round was harder.
尽管男子组比赛更加艰难。
Cliff.
悬崖。
Certain cut of beef.
一定的牛肉块。
Baby Shower Guests Chuck.
婴儿送礼会嘉宾查克。
Chuck beef.
查牛肉。
Woman 3 Oh, what about Angus?
女人 3 哦，安格斯呢？
That's not a cut of beef.
那不是一块牛肉。
That's the name of the cow.
这就是牛的名字。
Finally, later that night after most of the shower guests went home, it was time to tear off the Bandaid.
最后，当晚晚些时候，大多数参加淋浴的客人都回家后，是时候撕掉创可贴了。
Go get Mom and Domenic.
去找妈妈和多梅尼克。
Brian Reed It was time for the moment of truth.
布莱恩·里德 (Brian Reed) 现在是关键时刻了。
Melissa and her husband went into a bedroom with the ultrasound envelope and shut the door behind them.
梅丽莎和她的丈夫带着超声波信封走进一间卧室，关上门。
The family huddled anxiously outside.
一家人焦急地挤在外面。
Is it freaky that we're all just outside the door waiting.
我们都在门外等待，这很奇怪吗？
Quietly talking.
低声说话。
Woman 4 I feel like the baby's actually being born right now.
女人 4 我感觉孩子现在就真的出生了。
I feel like I'm waiting for the smoke, and the pope, and the whole thing.
我觉得我在等待烟雾，等待教皇，以及整个事情。
[LAUGHS].
[笑]。
Minutes passed.
几分钟过去了。
Then, slowly, the door opened.
然后，门慢慢地打开了。
Melissa emerged.
梅丽莎出现了。
It's a boy!
是个男孩！
Baby Shower Guests [CHEERING]
迎婴派对嘉宾[欢呼]
Melissa went around hugging everyone.
梅丽莎四处拥抱每个人。
Her brother, Nonna prediction number three.
她的兄弟诺娜预测第三个。
Her cousin, Nonna prediction number five.
她的表弟诺娜预测第五。
Her sister, Nonna prediction number seven.
她的妹妹诺娜的预测是第七。
Finally, she could wipe the sweat off her brow and breathe a sigh of relief.
终于，她可以擦掉额头的汗水，松了口气。
Not only was she getting the boy she wanted, she could call Nonna's relatives all over the country without shame or disappointment and tell them that number 23 was right.
她不仅得到了她想要的男孩，还可以毫无羞耻或失望地给诺娜全国各地的亲戚打电话，告诉他们23号是对的。
Yeah.
是的。
Melissa I'm calling to tell you that Nonna was right again.
梅丽莎 我打电话是想告诉你诺娜又说对了。
Oh my gosh.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
天哪。
That is so crazy.
那太疯狂了。
I have goosebumps.
我起了鸡皮疙瘩。
Do you?
你？
[LAUGHS].
[笑]。
Ira Glass Brian Reed is one of the producers of our program.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 布莱恩·里德 (Brian Reed) 是我们节目的制作人之一。
This is another story of people communicating not with words but with an inanimate object.
这是另一个人们不通过语言而是通过无生命物体进行交流的故事。
Dave Hill has been on our show from time to time.
戴夫·希尔（Dave Hill）不时出现在我们的节目中。
He's a comedian and a musician.
他是一位喜剧演员和音乐家。
He told this story onstage at Cameo Gallery in Brooklyn.
他在布鲁克林 Cameo 画廊的舞台上讲述了这个故事。
A warning for the squeamish, he mentions pee in here.
对那些神经质的人的警告，他在这里提到了小便。
This is something that happened to me a few weeks ago right here in town.
这是几周前我在城里发生的事情。
But backing things up a little bit.
但要支持一点。
I moved here to New York in 2003 from Cleveland.
2003 年我从克利夫兰搬到了纽约。
Thank you!
谢谢你！
[LIGHT APPLAUSE] Thank you.
[热烈掌声] 谢谢。
Anyway, the time that I've been here-- maybe you guys can relate to this, too-- all I ever hear is, New York used to be so edgy.
不管怎样，我来这里的时候——也许你们也能体会到这一点——我所听到的只是，纽约曾经是如此前卫。
But now it's lost its edge.
但现在它已经失去了优势。
It's not edgy anymore.
已经不那么急躁了。
Because I understand that there was a time in New York when you could walk down the street, and just crack open a beer, and just suck it down, and throw the bottle on the ground.
因为我知道，在纽约，曾经有一段时间，你可以走在街上，打开一瓶啤酒，喝下去，然后把瓶子扔在地上。
[LAUGHTER] And you might get, like, a little raped, or whatever.
[笑声]你可能会被，比如，有点被强奸，或者其他什么。
[LAUGHTER] But it didn't matter.
[笑声]但这并不重要。
It was like a give and take.
这就像一种给予和索取。
You took the good with the bad.
你把好的和坏的都带走了。
And everyone was fine with it.
每个人都对此表示满意。
And now you can't really get away with any of that stuff.
现在你真的无法摆脱这些东西了。
But you can get a really nice brunch at a lot of places.
但你可以在很多地方吃到非常美味的早午餐。
Just go with your friends, free refills on mimosas.
和你的朋友一起去，免费续杯含羞草。
It's great for everybody.
这对每个人来说都很棒。
And the reason I bring this up is a few weeks ago I was doing a show out here in Brooklyn.
我之所以提出这个问题是因为几周前我在布鲁克林举办了一场演出。
It was a very classy show with all these people, and a sold out show.
这是一场非常优雅的演出，有这么多人参加，而且演出门票全部售完。
So I put on a fancy suit.
于是我穿上了一套漂亮的西装。
And I spent, like, six to eight hours on my hair.
我花了六到八个小时在头发上。
And the people putting the show on were like, oh, Dave, you've got to get out here on time.
主持节目的人就像，哦，戴夫，你必须准时离开这里。
So I'm rushing to get out there.
所以我急着要出去。
And I'm at 28th and Broadway.
我在 28 号百老汇街。
And the R train's right there.
R 列车就在那里。
So I'm like, oh, I'll take the R train.
所以我想，哦，我会乘坐 R 火车。
That's like a reputable train.
这就像一辆信誉良好的火车。
And right before I'm going to go on the subway, I realize, oh, I'm so hungry.
就在我要上地铁之前，我意识到，哦，我好饿。
And then I look.
然后我看。
And there's a gyro car right there.
那里有一辆陀螺车。
So I go to the gyro guy.
所以我去找陀螺仪人。
I'm like, give my a gyro.
我想，给我一个陀螺仪。
And then he's got all the sauces, like the yogurt sauce, and the chili sauce, and the garlic sauce.
然后他得到了所有的酱汁，比如酸奶酱、辣椒酱和蒜酱。
And I'm just like, sauce the [BLEEP] out of that thing.
我就想，把那东西里的[BLEEP]调出来。
And don't hold back on me.
并且不要阻止我。
And he just starts just hosing down the gyro.
然后他就开始用软管冲洗陀螺仪。
Like, calm down.
就像，冷静下来。
And then finally, he gives me the gyro.
最后，他给了我陀螺仪。
And I go down into the subway.
我走进地铁。
And the train comes right away.
火车马上就来了。
I get on it with the gyro.
我用陀螺仪上去。
I start eating the gyro.
我开始吃陀螺仪。
And the sauces just start dripping all over my hands, and on the ground, and on my shoes and everything.
酱汁开始滴到我的手上、地上、鞋子上和所有东西上。
And it's rush hour.
而且现在是高峰时间。
And the train's, like, super crowded, and everything.
火车上超级拥挤，什么都有。
And I'm realizing, oh, I'm probably stinking up the whole car with this gyro.
我意识到，哦，我可能用这个陀螺仪弄脏了整辆车。
And people are probably looking at me thinking, that guy looks incredible.
人们可能看着我想，那家伙看起来不可思议。
But it's not very cool what he's doing with that gyro.
但他用陀螺仪做的事情并不是很酷。
So I'm thinking the best thing that I can do for everyone on the train, and for the city of New York in general, is just get off the subway at the next stop, finish the gyro, get back on, go out to Brooklyn.
所以我想我能为火车上的每个人以及整个纽约市做的最好的事情就是在下一站下地铁，完成陀螺仪，然后返回，前往布鲁克林。
And so I get off at the next stop, 23rd Street.
于是我在下一站 23 街下车。
Lightning quick decision.
闪电般的快速决定。
And then I walk all the way to the end of the platform to eat my gyro.
然后我一路走到平台的尽头去吃我的陀螺仪。
Because I don't even want to bother anyone on the platform with my gyro.
因为我什至不想用我的陀螺仪打扰平台上的任何人。
I do cool [BLEEP] like this all the time.
我总是像这样很酷[BLEEP]。
[LAUGHTER] And so I go all the way down to the end of the platform.
[笑声]所以我一直走到站台的尽头。
And you know how at the end of the subway they have the black metal storage bins?
你知道地铁尽头有黑色金属储物箱吗？
Not like a Norwegian black metal storage, which would be so cool.
不像挪威的黑色金属储物柜，那会很酷。
It's just like a regular black metal storage, almost like a dumpster or something.
它就像一个普通的黑色金属储藏室，几乎就像垃圾箱之类的东西。
So I'm stand next to it.
所以我就站在它旁边。
And I've finished my gyro.
我已经完成了我的陀螺仪。
And then I have the wrapper.
然后我就有了包装纸。
And I'm looking around for a trash can to throw it out.
我正在四处寻找垃圾桶来把它扔掉。
And there's no trash can anywhere on the whole platform.
而且整个平台上没有任何垃圾桶。
And it's too messy to put in my pocket.
而且放在口袋里太乱了。
And I'm like, oh, I don't want to throw it on the ground.
我想，哦，我不想把它扔在地上。
I don't want to throw it on the track.
我不想把它扔到跑道上。
So I think the best thing that I can do in this scenario is just set it down on the black metal storage bin.
所以我认为在这种情况下我能做的最好的事情就是把它放在黑色金属储物箱上。
That way, whoever has to clean it up later, they don't have to bend over.
这样，以后谁要清理，就不用弯腰了。
They can just kind of swoop it into the satchel.
他们可以把它塞进书包里。
I might be kind of fun for them.
我可能对他们来说很有趣。
I don't even know.
我什至不知道。
And so I set it down.
所以我把它放下了。
And as soon as I do, I start to hear this rustling, and rumbling, and [GROWLING SOUNDS].
一旦我这样做，我就开始听到沙沙声、隆隆声和[咆哮声]。
And it turns out there's this homeless guy sort of camped out on the other side of the storage bin.
事实证明，有一个无家可归的人在储物箱的另一边露营。
And I woke him up.
我叫醒了他。
And he's like this sleeping giant, just like, [GROWLING SOUNDS].
他就像这个沉睡的巨人，就像，[咆哮的声音]。
And he gets up.
然后他站了起来。
And his bones are creaking.
他的骨头嘎吱作响。
And his hair is, like, all crazy all over the place.
他的头发到处都是。
And he looks at me.
他看着我。
And he just starts yelling.
他就开始大喊大叫。
And he's like, back up!
他就像，后退！
Back up!
备份！
And I move like a little bit.
我稍微动了一下。
But I'm like, what's this guy going to do?
但我想，这个人要做什么？
So I don't really move that much.
所以我其实并没有动那么多。
But then he's like, back up!
但随后他就说，回来吧！
And get this trash out of here.
并把这些垃圾赶出这里。
And he smacks the trash out at me.
他还把垃圾扔到我身上。
And I'm like, that's rude.
我想，这太粗鲁了。
And then he screams again.
然后他又尖叫起来。
He's like, back up!
他就像，后退！
Back up!
备份！
And this guy, like, he was seriously homeless.
这个人，就像，他严重无家可归。
It wasn't like a phase he was going through, where he's like, oh, that's Don.
这不像是他正在经历的一个阶段，他会说，哦，那是唐。
I'm sure he'll be back up in his place any day now.
我确信他随时都会回到原来的位置。
He is like this seriously crazy, caveman homeless guy.
他就像一个极度疯狂、穴居人、无家可归的人。
So it occurs to me.
我想到了这一点。
It's like, this might not even be about me.
就像，这甚至可能与我无关。
He might be yelling at some other guy, imaginary guy, who's just like standing exactly where I'm standing.
他可能正在对另一个人大喊大叫，想象中的人，就像站在我站的地方一样。
So I'm still not really moving.
所以我还是没有真正动起来。
So I'm like, oh, the train's coming, whatever.
所以我想，哦，火车来了，无论如何。
And then he goes, back up or I'll throw this bottle of piss on you!
然后他就退后，不然我就把这瓶尿扔到你身上！
And then from out of nowhere, like a ninja, all of a sudden he's got this Gatorade bottle.
然后他突然像忍者一样，突然得到了这瓶佳得乐。
And it's a huge Gatorade bottle.
这是一个巨大的佳得乐瓶子。
It's not like the size you get, like, oh, hang on, I'm just going to the store to get some Gatorade.
它不像你得到的尺寸，比如，哦，等等，我只是去商店买一些佳得乐。
It's like the giantest size.
这就像最大的尺寸。
The kind you drink if you're like, I only drink Gatorade.
你喜欢喝的那种，我只喝佳得乐。
It's like huge, the hugest size.
它就像巨大的、最大的尺寸。
Only, instead of being full of delicious and refreshing Gatorade, it's full of pee, of urine.
只是，里面充满的不是美味清爽的佳得乐，而是尿液。
And just real quick, has anyone here ever peed in a bottle before?
快点，这里有人曾经在瓶子里撒过尿吗？
[APPLAUSE] Oh, yeah.
[鼓掌]哦，是的。
Of course.
当然。
But yeah, I was just doing it before.
但是，是的，我之前就这么做过。
[LAUGHTER] But the reason I bring it up is if you haven't peed in a bottle before, you think when you have to go really bad you're like, oh my God, I just went like nine gallons.
[笑声] 但我提出这个问题的原因是，如果你以前没有在瓶子里撒过尿，你会想，当你不得不尿得很厉害时，你会说，天哪，我刚刚尿了九加仑。
It was crazy.
太疯狂了。
But we don't, as humans-- and you know this if you've peed in a bottle-- we actually don't pee that much.
但我们不会，作为人类——如果你在瓶子里撒过尿就知道这一点——我们实际上尿得不多。
Now the reason I bring it up is because to fill a huge Gatorade bottle, that's like a week or two's worth of urine.
现在我提出这个问题是因为装满一大瓶佳得乐，相当于一两周的尿液量。
Now if you factor in that the homeless are a historically dehydrated people, this is like three or four weeks of pee saved up.
现在，如果你考虑到无家可归者是历史上脱水的人，这相当于三到四个星期的小便积蓄。
And he's just like, back up or I'll throw this bottle of piss on you!
他就说，退后，不然我就把这瓶尿扔到你身上！
And the way I'm saying it, it sounds like he's like, back up.
从我说话的方式来看，他就像是，回来了。
That's the first option.
这是第一个选择。
And if you choose not to do that, I'll throw this bottle of urine that I just happen to have.
如果你选择不这样做，我就会扔掉我恰好有的这瓶尿液。
I'll throw it on you.
我会把它扔给你。
But he doesn't say it like that at all.
但他根本不这么说。
He's just like, back up or I'll throw this bottle of piss on you.
他就像是，退后，否则我就把这瓶尿扔到你身上。
And before he even finishes his sentence, he cocks his arm back and just launches it at me.
话还没说完，他就向后抬起手臂，朝我射去。
[LAUGHTER] And oh my God, homeless or not, like, not a drop wasted.
[笑声]天哪，无论是否无家可归，都没有浪费一滴。
His aim was incredible.
他的目标令人难以置信。
It was just coming right at me.
它正好朝我而来。
The first blow nails me right in the head.
第一击就钉在我的头上。
Like all my hair, all that work for nothing.
就像我所有的头发一样，所有这些都是徒劳的。
My hair is totally ruined.
我的头发完全毁了。
It's going down my back and down my jacket.
它顺着我的背，顺着我的夹克。
And it's soaking my pants.
而且它把我的裤子都湿透了。
It soaks through my pants, soaks my underwear.
它浸透了我的裤子，浸透了我的内裤。
He had effectively wet my pants with his pee.
他的尿实际上已经弄湿了我的裤子。
And at this point in the story, I'm getting a bit irritated, right?
故事讲到这里，我有点生气了，对吧？
And I'm thinking to myself, well, Dave, what would you do if a total stranger drenched you in his own pee?
我心里想，好吧，戴夫，如果一个完全陌生的人用自己的小便把你淋湿了，你会怎么做？
And up to that point in my life I would have thought like, oh, I'd kill that guy, and hurt his feelings, and really give him a real stern talking to.
直到我生命中的那个时刻，我会想，哦，我会杀了那个人，伤害他的感情，并真正严厉地对待他。
But that wasn't my reaction at all.
但这根本不是我的反应。
I was just like, I am getting the [BLEEP] out of here immediately.
我当时想，我要立即让[BLEEP]离开这里。
Because if you figure if your opponent's first move in a confrontation is to just drench you in his own pee, like, what's next?
因为如果你认为你的对手在对抗中的第一步就是用他自己的尿液把你淋湿，那么接下来会发生什么？
At the very least, he's got a couple more bottles of pee back there, you figure.
你猜，至少他那里还有几瓶尿。
So I'm just like, all right, touche.
所以我就想，好吧，touche。
You won this round, well played.
这一局你赢了，打得好。
I'm getting out of here.
我要离开这里。
And so I walk out of the subway station.
于是我走出了地铁站。
And I walk up onto the street.
我走到街上。
And it's still light outside.
而且外面天还很亮。
And I'm walking down Fifth Avenue.
我正沿着第五大道行走。
And I start thrashing around to get the pee off of me.
我开始拼命挣扎，想把尿从身上弄下来。
And I'm like Jennifer Beals in hit movie, Flashdance .
我就像热门电影《闪电舞》中的詹妮弗·比尔斯一样。
And it's flying all over.
而且还到处乱飞。
And then the sort of rivulets of hobo pee are running down my face and neck, and down my chest and everything.
然后，流浪汉的尿流顺着我的脸、脖子、胸口和全身流下来。
And I'm looking up.
我抬头看。
And I see that.
我明白了。
And the sun is kind of going through the droplets of pee.
阳光有点透过小便的水滴。
And it's forming these beautiful prisms and rainbows.
它正在形成这些美丽的棱镜和彩虹。
And I'm just transfixed by them.
我只是被他们迷住了。
And all of a sudden, all that pain and anger just fell away.
突然之间，所有的痛苦和愤怒都消失了。
Because it was in that moment I realized, this mother [BLEEP] town is back.
因为就在那一刻我意识到，这个母亲[BLEEP]小镇回来了。
[APPLAUSE AND CHEERS] Ira Glass Dave Hill, he's the author of the book Tasteful Nudes, and Other Misguided Attempts at Personal Growth and Validation.
[掌声和欢呼]艾拉·格拉斯·戴夫·希尔 (Ira Glass Dave Hill)，他是《品味裸体，以及个人成长和验证的其他误导性尝试》一书的作者。
Coming up, our program has been on the radio for over a decade.
接下来，我们的节目已经在电台播出十多年了。
And finally, finally we have somebody in the second half of today's program for the first time ever who actually has a great voice for radio.
最后，我们终于在今天的节目后半部分首次迎来了一位真正拥有出色广播嗓音的人。
I know you've been wondering if this would ever happen.
我知道你一直想知道这是否会发生。
And yes, it is not one of our contributors.
是的，它不是我们的贡献者之一。
It is one of their dads.
这是他们的父亲之一。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's program, "Send a Message," stories of messages sent and received, many of them not using words, or words that mean something different than what they're saying.
今天的节目“发送消息”讲述了发送和接收消息的故事，其中许多消息没有使用单词，或者单词的含义与他们所说的不同。
We have arrived at Act Three of our program.
我们已经到了我们计划的第三幕了。
Act Three, "Soul Sister." Sometimes the impressiveness of the messenger is part of what makes a message so powerful.
第三幕，“灵魂姐妹”。有时，信息传递者的令人印象深刻是信息如此强大的部分原因。
Sonari Glinton has an example of that.
索纳里·格林顿（Sonari Glinton）就有一个例子。
In the late 1970s, my family moved to a Chicago neighborhood called South Shore.
20 世纪 70 年代末，我的家人搬到了芝加哥一个叫南岸的社区。
Black families had been moving there for decades.
几十年来，黑人家庭一直搬到那里。
And of course, as we moved in, all the white families moved out.
当然，当我们搬进来时，所有白人家庭都搬走了。
Which wasn't so bad, partly because when all those white families fled, they left behind all kinds of cool stuff-- golf courses, a few marinas, a gigantic country club, mansions.
这还不算太糟糕，部分原因是当所有这些白人家庭逃离时，他们留下了各种很酷的东西——高尔夫球场、几个码头、一个巨大的乡村俱乐部、豪宅。
Mostly, though, they left behind their churches and synagogues.
不过，他们大多留下了教堂和犹太教堂。
One of those churches was my own, Saint Philip Neri Parish.
其中一间教堂就是我自己的教堂，圣菲利普·内里教区。
It is a huge church.
这是一座巨大的教堂。
And it was also my grade school.
这也是我的小学。
Right there on 72nd Street, Saint Philip Neri was the beginning and end of my little Catholic universe.
就在 72 街，圣菲利普·内里 (Saint Philip Neri) 是我天主教小世界的起点和终点。
Between school, mass on Sundays, basketball, summer camp, I essentially spent my entire childhood there.
在学校、周日弥撒、篮球、夏令营之间，我基本上是在那里度过了整个童年。
By the time I was in third grade, Saint Philip Neri's students were nearly all black.
当我上三年级时，圣菲利普·内里的学生几乎都是黑人。
And just about half of our teachers were black.
我们大约一半的老师是黑人。
Each year, more and more black teachers replaced the white ones.
每年，越来越多的黑人教师取代了白人教师。
South Shore was kind of the same.
南岸也有类似的情况。
There were just a few white families left.
只剩下几个白人家庭了。
Sometimes during recess, we'd hear bagpipes coming from the church near the playground and watch as groups of white people left the funeral mass.
有时在课间休息时，我们会听到操场附近教堂里传来风笛声，看着一群白人离开葬礼弥撒。
But it wasn't just South Shore.
但不仅仅是南岸。
Chicago was going through this gigantic change, too.
芝加哥也正在经历这一巨大的变化。
Race was at the forefront of everything.
种族是一切的首要因素。
In 1983, Chicago elected its first black mayor, Harold Washington, whose opponents tried to scare voters about a black man holding the job.
1983年，芝加哥选出了第一位黑人市长哈罗德·华盛顿，他的反对者试图用黑人担任该职位来吓唬选民。
Harold Washington's election meant a lot to South Shore.
哈罗德·华盛顿的当选对南岸意义重大。
It still does.
现在仍然如此。
In 1983, Lou's Barber Shop on 71st Street had a poster of Harold Washington hanging up.
1983年，71街的卢理发店挂着哈罗德·华盛顿的海报。
Lou's still has that picture of Harold.
卢的手里还保存着哈罗德的那张照片。
But Harold was just the beginning.
但哈罗德只是一个开始。
Soon after his election, Michael Jordan came to town, then Oprah.
当选后不久，迈克尔·乔丹来到了这座城市，然后是奥普拉。
In 1984, Jesse Jackson-- the dude from our neighborhood-- was running for president.
1984 年，我们邻居的杰西·杰克逊 (Jesse Jackson) 正在竞选总统。
But all of that was going on around us.
但这一切都发生在我们周围。
The biggest thing for me happened at Saint Philip Neri.
对我来说最重要的事情发生在圣菲利普内里。
And it happened with Sister Rosemary Brennan.
这件事发生在罗斯玛丽·布伦南修女身上。
Sister Rosemary was the principal at Saint Philip Neri.
罗斯玛丽修女是圣菲利普内里学校的校长。
And principal is such a limp title, when I think about it.
当我想到这一点时，校长是一个多么软弱的头衔。
Because really, Sister Rosemary was the school.
因为实际上，罗斯玛丽修女就是学校。
Her presence was big, even though by the fourth grade, I was taller than her.
她的存在感很大，尽管到了四年级，我就比她高了。
Sister Rosemary wasn't a nun out of central casting.
罗斯玛丽修女并不是中央选拔出来的修女。
She'd clearly been a beautiful woman when she was younger.
年轻时的她显然是个美丽的女人。
But she didn't wear a habit.
但她没有穿衣服的习惯。
She did carry a rosary.
她确实带着一串念珠。
She was very Irish, serious, not angry.
她非常爱尔兰人，严肃，不生气。
Mainly, she took each of us seriously, which came across as love.
主要是，她认真对待我们每个人，这给人一种爱。
Her love was fierce.
她的爱是激烈的。
She knew every single kid, every parent.
她认识每一个孩子，每一个家长。
Everything about each of us mattered.
我们每个人的一切都很重要。
Sister Rosemary didn't talk about race.
罗斯玛丽修女没有谈论种族。
But what she did, that's a story.
但她所做的，那是一个故事。
It was sometime after Christmas break.
那是圣诞节假期后的某个时候。
I was in the fourth grade in my reading class.
当时我在阅读课上四年级。
I had Miss Sperling.
我有斯珀林小姐。
It seems important to note that she was white.
值得注意的是她是白人。
Anyway, we were sitting in reading class.
无论如何，我们坐在阅读课上。
So we're all broke up in groups.
于是我们就分成了几组。
And in walks Sister Rosemary.
罗斯玛丽修女走了过来。
Now Sister Rosemary didn't just walk into a classroom for no reason.
现在罗斯玛丽修女并不是无缘无故地走进教室的。
Either one of the kids or the teacher was in big trouble.
要么是孩子，要么是老师遇到了大麻烦。
So everyone stopped what they were doing.
于是大家都停下了手中的事情。
And she said, as she would always say, good morning boys and girls.
她一如既往地说，早上好，孩子们。
And we said what we would always say, well, sing.
我们说了我们常说的话，嗯，唱歌。
Good morning, Sister Rosemary.
早上好，迷迭香修女。
And then Sister Rosemary told us to go back to our work, which was a perfectly silly thing to say.
然后罗斯玛丽修女告诉我们回去工作，这是一件非常愚蠢的事情。
Because when Sister Rosemary was in your class, you paid attention to Sister Rosemary.
因为当罗斯玛丽修女在你们班上时，您关注罗斯玛丽修女。
Even the kindergartners knew that.
连幼儿园的小朋友都知道这一点。
So our eyes stayed on Sister Rosemary as she grabbed the chair, dragged it across the floor to the front of the room.
因此，当罗斯玛丽修女抓住椅子，将其从地板上拖到房间前面时，我们的目光停留在她身上。
Then she stood on top of the chair with her back to the class.
然后她站在椅子上，背对着班级。
In our classroom, just like in every classroom, there was a crucifix.
在我们的教室里，就像在每个教室里一样，有一个十字架。
The crucifix had a blond wooden cross with a figure of Christ suspended on it.
十字架有一个金色的木制十字架，上面悬挂着基督的雕像。
Then with her back to the class, Sister Rosemary teetered on her tippy toes, firmly grabbed the bottom of the crucifix, and took it off the wall.
然后，罗斯玛丽修女背对着教室，踮起脚尖，摇摇晃晃，紧紧抓住十字架的底部，把它从墙上取下来。
By this point, no one was reading or even pretending to pay attention to anything else.
此时，没有人在阅读，甚至没有人假装注意其他事情。
She placed the cross aside, reached up, again on her tiptoes, and replaced the old crucifix with a new one.
她把十字架放在一边，再次踮起脚尖，把旧的十字架换成了新的。
And on this cross was a black Jesus.
而在这个十字架上，有一位黑人耶稣。
He was carved out of dark wood with a short 'fro, wide nose, full lips, and the same down-turned face as the white Jesus.
他是用深色木头雕刻而成的，有着短长的鼻子、宽大的鼻子、丰满的嘴唇和与白人耶稣一样的下垂的脸。
This little Irish woman straightened the cross, adjusted herself, climbed down off the chair, and began to leave the room.
这个爱尔兰小女人摆正十字架，调整好自己，从椅子上爬下来，开始离开房间。
All of us were completely silent.
我们所有人都完全沉默了。
Then one brave soul asked her what she was doing.
然后一位勇敢的人问她在做什么。
Without hesitation, Sister Rosemary turned around to us and said, boys and girls, we're not sure what Jesus looked like.
迷迭香修女毫不犹豫地转身对我们说，孩子们，我们不确定耶稣长什么样。
But we know he probably looked more like you than like me.
但我们知道他看起来可能更像你而不是我。
Then Sister Rosemary turned around and walked out of the classroom.
然后罗斯玛丽修女转身走出了教室。
That was it.
就是这样。
No deep discussion.
没有深入讨论。
No sitting down and going over it.
没有坐下来仔细研究它。
In one moment, she turned Jesus from white to black.
一瞬间，她把耶稣从白色变成了黑色。
Kind of like, OK, boys and girls, Jesus is black.
有点像，好吧，男孩和女孩，耶稣是黑人。
Deal with it on your own.
自己处理吧。
Sister Rosemary must have done the exact same thing in all the other classes, because from then on, all the crucifixes in our classrooms were black.
罗斯玛丽修女一定在其他班级也做了同样的事情，因为从那时起，我们教室里所有的十字架都是黑色的。
I can imagine her starting out the day with a full box of black crucifixes and ending it with a bunch of white ones she had to put in storage.
我可以想象她以一整箱黑色十字架开始新的一天，并以一堆她必须存放起来的白色十字架结束这一天。
There were 20 or so classes.
当时有20个左右的班级。
So she would have replaced the white crucifix more than 20 times.
所以她会更换白色十字架超过20次。
Each time getting on her tiptoes.
每次都踮起脚尖。
Each time meeting the stunned reaction.
每次见面都会有惊愕的反应。
Each time saying the same thing.
每次都说同样的话。
She could have done it on a Saturday or during a break.
她本可以在周六或休息期间完成这件事。
But she did it while we were all there.
但当我们都在场的时候她就这么做了。
She made the change, not the janitor or the teacher, Sister Rosemary.
是她做出了改变，而不是看门人或老师罗斯玛丽修女。
Here's the funny thing.
有趣的是。
No sooner had she switched the crosses that I made the switch in my head.
她一改变十字架，我的头脑就改变了。
Just like that, Jesus was black.
就像那样，耶稣是黑人。
Didn't ponder it.
没有多想。
No rolling it over in my head.
不要在我的脑海里翻来覆去。
It made perfect sense to me.
这对我来说非常有意义。
Everything and every one around me was black.
我周围的一切、每一个人都是黑色的。
So Jesus must have been, too.
耶稣也一定是这样的。
And plus, Sister Rosemary said so.
而且，罗斯玛丽修女也是这么说的。
The rest of my time at Saint Philip Neri, whenever I came across a white Jesus on a worksheet or in our religion book, I took out my pencil or crayon and colored him in to look like me.
在圣菲利普·内里的其余时间里，每当我在工作表或宗教书籍中看到白色的耶稣时，我都会拿出铅笔或蜡笔，把他涂上颜色，让他看起来像我。
When you're a fourth grader, everything is bigger than you.
当你四年级时，一切都比你大。
Everyone is smarter than you, older.
每个人都比你聪明，比你年长。
But when one day you realize that Jesus is just like you, Jesus is black, then everything short of Jesus seems possible.
但当有一天你意识到耶稣和你一样，耶稣是黑人，那么除了耶稣以外的一切似乎都是可能的。
Even now when I close my eyes to pray, it's to a Jesus with curly hair and dark skin.
即使现在，当我闭上眼睛祈祷时，也是向卷发黑皮肤的耶稣祈祷。
That's probably the way it ought to be.
这可能就是它应该的样子。
Theologically speaking, I know it does not matter at all what color Jesus was.
从神学上来说，我知道耶稣是什么肤色根本不重要。
Who he is transcends what he looked like.
他是谁超越了他的外表。
Scholars say the historical Jesus probably looked much like the people who live in the Middle East now, just shorter.
学者们表示，历史上的耶稣可能看起来很像现在生活在中东的人们，只是更矮一些。
Probably not much taller than Sister Rosemary.
可能比罗斯玛丽修女高不了多少。
She knew exactly how God should look in my eyes.
她清楚地知道上帝在我眼中应该是什么样子。
And luckily enough for me, she was able to show me.
对我来说幸运的是，她能够向我展示。
Sonari Glinton, his regular job, he's a reporter for NPR News.
索纳里·格林顿（Sonari Glinton），他的日常工作，他是 NPR 新闻的记者。
[MUSIC-- "PERSONAL JESUS," BY NINA HAGEN]
[音乐——“个人耶稣”，作者：尼娜·哈根]
Act Four, "Not My First Time at the Rodeo."
第四幕，“我不是第一次参加牛仔竞技表演”。
There are conversations that you have with your parents that just stay with you your whole life-- what they said, what you said, back and forths that you know by heart.
有些你和父母的对话会伴随你一生——他们说的话，你说的话，你都记在心里。
You repeat them to explain who you are to somebody else, or to yourself, and who your parents were.
你重复它们是为了向别人或你自己解释你是谁，以及你的父母是谁。
But what if you could re-hear that dialogue decades later?
但如果几十年后你能重新听到这段对话呢？
Not your memory of it, but the actual words that were truly spoken.
不是你的记忆，而是真正说过的话。
Nancy Updike has this story.
南希·厄普代克有这样一个故事。
Bill Lahey was in his early 20s and on the phone with his father in 1978 when he heard a faint pinging sound on the phone.
1978 年，比尔·莱希 (Bill Lahey) 20 岁出头，正在和父亲通电话，这时他听到电话里传来微弱的“叮”的一声。
He mentioned it.
他提到过。
And his father said--
他的父亲说——
When did that start?
那是从什么时候开始的？
Bill It's been there all along.
比尔 它一直都在那里。
Must be my bad ear.
一定是我耳朵坏了。
Bill There's a ping, like, every five seconds.
比尔：大约每五秒就会有一次 ping 信号。
Monitored or something.
被监控什么的。
Bill's Father Yeah.
比尔的父亲 是的。
Sometimes I wonder if this phone is tapped.
有时我想知道这部手机是否被窃听。
Two decades later, after his father had died, Bill was at his dad's house in Ohio cleaning out the office.
二十年后，他的父亲去世后，比尔在他父亲位于俄亥俄州的家里清理办公室。
And I opened up a file cabinet and found 30 or 40 cassette tapes with his unmistakable handwritten notations of names and dates.
我打开一个文件柜，发现了 30 或 40 盘盒式磁带，上面有他明确无误的手写姓名和日期。
And I knew instantly what they were, that he had been surreptitiously taping us.
我立刻就知道那是什么，他一直在偷偷地录我们。
Even at the time his father was recording, Bill had guessed what could be going on.
甚至在他父亲录音的时候，比尔就已经猜到会发生什么了。
It was the kind of thing his father might do.
这是他父亲可能会做的事情。
And he did.
他做到了。
He recorded hours of calls with Bill.
他记录了与比尔的几个小时的通话。
And according to his own handwritten labels, he also taped his four other children, his wife, his mother, other relatives, his priest.
根据他自己手写的标签，他还贴上了他的其他四个孩子、他的妻子、他的母亲、其他亲戚、他的牧师。
He recorded calls at home and in the car.
他对家里和车里的电话进行了录音。
Recording test number four.
记录第四项测试。
Road noise, average to low.
道路噪音，中等偏低。
Speed, 60 miles an hour.
速度，每小时 60 英里。
From the dates on the cassettes, Bill figured they were an archive of his father trying to get the people around him on to his side.
从录音带上的日期来看，比尔认为这是他父亲试图让周围的人站在他一边的档案。
Bill's mother had left his father after 37 years of marriage.
比尔的母亲在结婚 37 年后离开了他的父亲。
Bill remembered the gist and tone of those conversations pretty well.
比尔清楚地记得那些谈话的要点和语气。
They were memorable.
他们令人难忘。
And he put off listening to the recordings of them.
他推迟了听他们的录音。
For 12 years, they sat in a black nylon duffel bag that he would move every time the family moved.
12年来，他们一直放在一个黑色尼龙行李袋里，每次全家搬家时，他都会移动这个行李袋。
This was a pile of information Bill wasn't sure he wanted from an era of his life he knew he didn't want to relive.
这是比尔不确定自己想要从他不想重温的那个时代得到的一堆信息。
He'd sided with his mom in the divorce even before the divorce.
甚至在离婚之前，他就站在他妈妈一边。
Since junior high, he'd been lobbying her to leave his dad.
从初中起，他就一直游说她离开他的父亲。
As Bill saw his father, he was smart, tenacious, and a tremendous bully with a bad quick temper and huge blowups.
比尔看到他的父亲时，他聪明、顽强，是一个脾气暴躁、脾气暴躁的恶霸。
He got worse over time.
随着时间的推移，他的情况变得更糟。
And he was worse when he drank.
而且他喝酒后情况更糟。
What Bill remembered from the taped conversations were long calls where his father bullied him and he fought back hard.
比尔从录音对话中记得，他的父亲欺负他，他则奋力反击。
He saw himself as his mother's advocate and protector.
他将自己视为母亲的拥护者和保护者。
I remember him trying to recruit me in his campaign to keep his marriage together.
我记得他试图招募我参加他的竞选活动，以维持他的婚姻。
And so my memory was me saying versions of, look, she doesn't want to do that anymore.
所以我的记忆是我说过这样的话，看，她不想再这样做了。
You guys have tried for a long time.
你们已经尝试了很长时间了。
Let it go.
放手吧。
You know, some version of face facts, it's over.
你知道，某些版本的表面事实，已经结束了。
So you remember pushing back verbally, arguing with him?
所以你记得口头上反驳他，与他争吵吗？
Yeah, yeah.
是啊是啊。
All the time.
一直以来。
Nancy Updike After those 12 years of holding on to the tapes, Bill finally reached just about the age his father had been when he'd made the recordings.
南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 保存了这些磁带 12 年之后，比尔终于达到了他父亲录制录音时的年龄。
And suddenly Bill wanted to hear them.
突然比尔想听听他们的声音。
He felt ready but nervous.
他感觉自己已经准备好了，但也很紧张。
Here was raw data about what I actually did in conversations with my dad.
这是关于我在与父亲的对话中实际做了什么的原始数据。
And I just took one of the tapes with me, with my name on, and went into our car in the back of our house.
我只是随身携带了一盘刻有我名字的磁带，然后走进了我们房子后面的车。
Partially because it was the only place that had a cassette tape recorder that I knew of.
部分原因是这是我所知道的唯一拥有盒式磁带录音机的地方。
And the first thing that came on was his voice pretty aggressively questioning me about something.
首先出现的是他的声音，非常咄咄逼人地询问我一些事情。
And his voice was as clear as the day I heard it.
他的声音和我听到那天一样清晰。
So you got pretty involved there, didn't you, for somebody who didn't want to take sides?
所以你非常参与其中，不是吗，为了一个不想选边站队的人？
Yeah, I did.
是的，我做到了。
Certainly did.
当然有。
Nancy Updike His father was talking about the fact that Bill and his four siblings all sided with their mother in the divorce in one way or another.
南希·厄普代克（Nancy Updike）的父亲正在谈论这样一个事实：比尔和他的四个兄弟姐妹在离婚中都以某种方式站在了他们的母亲一边。
So why did you do it?
那你为什么这么做呢？
What, were you feeling sorry for your mother?
怎么，你对不起你妈妈吗？
No. Bill's Father For being oppressed?
不，比尔的父亲因为受到压迫？
You'd think she was going around in a wheelchair.
你可能会认为她是坐在轮椅上走来走去。
How would you feel, Bill?
比尔，你感觉如何？
And have that kind of a situation where the mother hen is being protected.
还有那种母鸡受到保护的情况。
From who?
来自谁？
She's got everybody believing that I'm a goddamn bully.
她让每个人都相信我是个该死的恶霸。
She's so psychotic that she's got everybody believing that I'm a bastard.
她太神经质了，以至于每个人都相信我是个混蛋。
That's how psychotic she is.
可见她有多神经质。
How would you feel if you were me, Bill?
比尔，如果你是我，你会有什么感觉？
And I listened for probably two minutes.
我听了大概两分钟。
And I was like, OK.
我当时想，好吧。
That's what they are.
他们就是这样。
This is just really intense.
这实在是太激烈了。
I took the tape out, went back and went into the house and told my wife about it.
我拿出磁带，回到屋里，把这件事告诉了我的妻子。
And didn't listen to them again for, I don't know, three or four months.
我不知道，有三四个月没有再听他们的声音了。
When Bill went back to listening for real, what he heard was his father pushing one main point with him hour after hour.
当比尔重新认真聆听时，他听到的是他的父亲一小时又一小时地向他强调一个要点。
Which was, how about you talking your mother into trying again?
那就是，你说服你妈妈再试一次怎么样？
[SIGHS].
[叹气]。
Well, just from talking to mother over the months, I see no real sign of changing her mind.
嗯，仅从几个月来与母亲的交谈来看，我没有看到她改变主意的真正迹象。
But has anybody really tried to, Bill, forcibly, persuasively?
但比尔，有没有人真的尝试过强行地、有说服力地这样做呢？
Is it fair that she doesn't try, whether she wants to or not?
不管她愿不愿意，她不去尝试公平吗？
And the answer, obviously, is no it isn't fair.
答案显然是否定的，这不公平。
To have it go down the drain and lose the war for a few battles without trying is, to me, absurd.
在我看来，不经尝试就让它付诸东流并在几场战斗中失败是荒谬的。
Yeah.
是的。
Well, I guess because I see it more than just a few battles.
嗯，我想是因为我看到的不仅仅是几场战斗。
No, I said there was a bunch of them.
不，我说有很多。
What the hell's the difference?
到底有什么区别？
There were a lot of good times.
有很多美好的时光。
Why do you look at the black part?
为什么要看黑色的部分？
Well, Dad, because I didn't that time that things worked well.
好吧，爸爸，因为我当时没有这么做，所以事情进展顺利。
I mean, maybe when I was very young.
我的意思是，也许在我很小的时候。
You have no-- remember anything?
你不记得什么了吗？
We had no happiness, Bill?
我们没有幸福，比尔？
I didn't say none.
我没有说没有。
Bill's Father You just said you never saw the times when we did.
比尔的父亲 你刚才说你从未见过我们那样的时代。
A period.
一个时期。
I mean, when I say things, you know, just generally.
我的意思是，当我说一些事情时，你知道，只是一般性的。
Oh, well, you have a short memory, Bill.
哦，好吧，你记性不好，比尔。
I'm sorry to say that.
我很抱歉这么说。
We used to go up to Lake Erie.
我们曾经去伊利湖。
We had a lot of good times.
我们度过了很多美好时光。
I'm not saying we didn't.
我并不是说我们没有。
Bill's Father Bill, are you saying that there's no use trying?
比尔的父亲比尔，你是说尝试没有用吗？
I'm not saying that.
我不是这么说的。
I just-- Bill's Father What's the bottom line?
我只是—— 比尔的父亲 底线是什么？
Let's get down to it.
让我们开始吧。
This is a lot of conversation.
这是很多对话。
Tell me what your attitude is.
告诉我你的态度是什么。
Are you advocating that we don't try?
你是否主张我们不要尝试？
I'm just taking-- Bill's Father No, I want to know.
我只是——比尔的父亲 不，我想知道。
Kind of like, say something.
有点像，说点什么。
You know, just don't sit there.
你知道，只是不要坐在那里。
I was less confrontational than I remember or expected.
我不像我记忆中或预期的那样具有对抗性。
But I could remember that thought process that I went through.
但我记得我经历过的思考过程。
You know, if I say X, he's going to blow up.
你知道，如果我说X，他就会爆炸。
If I say, Y, I'm going to throw my mom under the bus.
如果我说，是，我会把我妈妈扔到公共汽车下。
I know what Mother's-- at least from what she tells me, this has been something that she's obviously been thinking about a long time.
我知道母亲的想法——至少从她告诉我的来看，这显然是她思考了很长时间的事情。
Not no long time.
不是不久。
Maybe four or five years.
也许四五年。
Bill, do you know that her mind might be affected?
比尔，你知道她的思想可能会受到影响吗？
And she may not be herself psychologically.
从心理上来说，她可能已经不再是她自己了。
Four or five years?
四五年？
Bill's Father Bill, do you realize that her mind might affected?
比尔的父亲比尔，你知道她的思想可能会受到影响吗？
She may not be herself psychologically.
她在心理上可能不是她自己。
But for that long of time?
但这么长时间？
Bill's Father Yes.
比尔的父亲 是的。
Would you like to see us happy if we can arrange to be together?
如果我们能安排在一起，你愿意看到我们幸福吗？
Sure.
当然。
Bill's Father Why don't you say that?
比尔的父亲 你为什么不这么说呢？
Where was the warrior in me?
我内心的战士在哪里？
Where was the stand up person that was willing to call a lie a lie, you know, willing to draw bright lines and say, I won't even put up with having a conversation about this?
哪里有那个愿意称谎言为谎言、愿意划清界限并说“我什至无法忍受就此进行对话”的挺身而出的人在哪里？
And some of these conversations go on so long.
其中一些对话持续了很长时间。
I mean, 45 minutes, an hour.
我的意思是，45 分钟，一个小时。
And he's just hammering away at you and at the points he's making.
他只是在对你和他所提出的观点进行猛烈的抨击。
Why did you stay on such a long time?
你为什么呆了这么长时间？
Why not just say, Dad, I got to go?
为什么不直接说，爸爸，我得走了？
Yeah.
是的。
So I was living in Wisconsin during a lot of this taping.
所以在录制过程中我大部分时间都住在威斯康星州。
I felt badly that my mom was back there, basically by herself dealing with him.
我感觉很糟糕，因为我妈妈就在后面，基本上是她一个人在和他打交道。
And I think I had some notion that by staying on the phone with him, you know, it's like a little bit of the rodeo clown.
我想我有一些想法，通过与他通电话，你知道，这有点像牛仔竞技小丑。
You know, those old rodeo clowns would be sent out.
你知道，那些老牛仔竞技小丑会被派出去。
The cowboy would be bucked off the bull.
牛仔会被公牛推开。
To distract the bull?
为了分散公牛的注意力？
Bill Would go out to distract the bull.
比尔会出去分散公牛的注意力。
Bill wasn't crushed by the difference between what he heard on the tapes and the tough line he'd remembered taking with his dad.
比尔并没有因为他在录音带上听到的内容和他记忆中对父亲采取的强硬路线之间的差异而感到沮丧。
But it did throw him off balance.
但这确实让他失去了平衡。
He really had seen himself from the time he was a kid as a warrior standing up to the strong, protecting the weak, a sort of superhero when it came to arguing against his dad.
从他还是个孩子的时候起，他就真的把自己视为一个对抗强者、保护弱者的战士，当与他的父亲争论时，他就像一个超级英雄。
But I was less heroic.
但我没那么英勇。
It was like I was more pragmatic.
就好像我更加务实了。
It was less of an epic struggle of right and wrong and more mundane than that.
这与其说是一场史诗般的对与错之争，不如说更加平凡。
I mean, what kid fantasizes about being a pragmatist?
我的意思是，哪个孩子会幻想成为一名实用主义者？
[LAUGHS].
[笑]。
Right.
正确的。
Nancy Updike Bill says his mother thrived after the divorce.
南希·厄普代克·比尔说，他的母亲在离婚后过得很好。
His father, he says, stayed more or less the same.
他说，他的父亲或多或少保持着原样。
He married again, divorced again.
他又结婚了，又离婚了。
Bill kept up a relationship with him his whole life.
比尔一生都与他保持着关系。
That had been his other goal during these calls.
这是他在这些电话中的另一个目标。
Besides protecting his mom, not losing his dad.
除了保护妈妈，也不能失去爸爸。
He had thought about that even during the worst arguments.
即使在最激烈的争论中他也想到了这一点。
Better a long silence than words he couldn't take back.
长时间的沉默比他无法收回的话要好。
Bill saw his father once or twice a year every year after the divorce.
离婚后，比尔每年都会见到父亲一两次。
And he spoke to him by phone every few weeks until he died.
他每隔几周就和他通一次电话，直到他去世。
I'll call you back soon.
我很快就会给你回电话。
Or you could call me in the evening.
或者你可以晚上给我打电话。
All right.
好的。
Bill And any time you want to chat.
比尔 任何时候你想聊天。
All right.
好的。
Bill OK.
比尔好的。
So I will talk to you soon.
所以我很快就会和你谈谈。
Nancy Updike is one of the producers of our program.
南希·厄普代克是我们节目的制作人之一。
[MUSIC-- "GET THE MESSAGE," BY SAGITARIUS"]
[音乐——射手座的“获取信息”]
Our program was produced today by Jonathan Menjivar and our senior producer Julie Snyder with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Sarah Koenig, Lisa Pollak, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Jonathan Menjivar 和我们的高级制片人 Julie Snyder 以及 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Sarah Koenig、Lisa Pollak、Brian Reed、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Production help from Tarek Fouda.
Tarek Fouda 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our operations director.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的运营总监。
Emily Condon's our office manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的办公室经理。
Elise Bergerson's our administrative assistant.
埃莉斯·伯格森是我们的行政助理。
[ANNOUNCEMENTS] This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International, WBEZ management oversight for our program by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia.
[公告] 《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行，WBEZ 管理部门由我们的老板 Torey Malatia 先生监督我们的节目。
His friend Mars has been making these cute little radios.
他的朋友火星一直在制作这些可爱的小收音机。
You know these little volume knob, and a tuning knob.
你知道这些小音量旋钮和调音旋钮。
And Torey cannot shut up about it.
托雷不能对此闭嘴。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
[MUSIC-- "GET THE MESSAGE," BY SAGITARIUS"]
[音乐——射手座的“获取信息”]
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。