466: Blackjack - This American Life

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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #466 | April 24, 2026 466: Blackjack Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.

00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 466 集 | 2026 年 4 月 24 日 466：二十一点 注意：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。

If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.

如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。

Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.

请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。

Prologue: Prologue Ira Glass OK, here we go.

序言：序言 Ira Glass 好的，我们开始吧。

Blackjack, $10 tables.

二十一点，每桌 10 美元。

$10 high limit room, which no one is in.

10美元的高限额房间，里面没有人。

Monday, late morning.

周一，上午晚些时候。

This American Life producer, Robyn Semien, and I are in a casino that will remain unnamed here on the radio because we did not have permission to record.

这位《美国生活》制片人罗宾·塞米恩（Robyn Semien）和我正在一家赌场中，该赌场在广播中不会透露姓名，因为我们没有录音许可。

I did not ask for permission due to the nature of our visit.

由于我们访问的性质，我没有请求许可。

Stay over here.

呆在这里。

We stand by one of the blackjack tables, and Robyn does a quick scan of the cards.

我们站在一张二十一点牌桌旁，罗宾快速浏览了一下牌。

I get a six.

我得到了六分。

Ira Glass We were there to count cards, to play blackjack and count cards while we did it, which gives a player such a big advantage against the house that most casinos ask you to leave the table if they catch you doing it.

Ira Glass 我们在那里数牌，玩二十一点，一边数牌，这给玩家在对抗庄家时带来了巨大的优势，以至于大多数赌场如果发现你这样做，就会要求你离开牌桌。

And how did we end up here?

我们是怎么到这里的？

Well, we'd gotten a lesson the day before in how to count cards.

嗯，前一天我们已经上了一堂如何数牌的课。

We used to say that you could teach a piece of wood to play blackjack.

我们过去常说，你可以教一块木头玩二十一点。

You just have to be able to keep your wits about you when you're at the table and not make too many mistakes.

当你在牌桌上时，你必须能够保持头脑清醒，并且不要犯太多错误。

We got our lesson from Andy Bloch, who played blackjack for what is possibly the most famous group of blackjack card counters, the so-called "MIT Blackjack Team." Their winnings inspired a best-selling book and a terrible Hollywood film called 21.

我们从安迪·布洛赫 (Andy Bloch) 那里得到了教训，他为可能是最著名的二十一点牌算牌组（即所谓的“麻省理工学院二十一点队”）玩二十一点。他们的奖金启发了一本畅销书和一部名为《21》的可怕好莱坞电影。

These were real MIT students.

这些是真正的麻省理工学院的学生。

Andy studied electrical engineering.

安迪学习电气工程。

There is no reliable way to know how much they won.

没有可靠的方法可以知道他们赢了多少钱。

They claim over $8 million between 1994 and 2000.

1994 年至 2000 年间，他们索赔超过 800 万美元。

After he quit the team, Andy put out an instructional DVD about how to count cards.

退出团队后，安迪推出了一张关于如何算牌的教学 DVD。

He doesn't play much blackjack himself anymore.

他自己不再玩二十一点了。

Once I got known as a part of the MIT Blackjack Team, it became hard to play.

当我成为麻省理工学院二十一点团队的一员后，玩起来就变得很难了。

And I would get kicked out of just about anywhere I tried to play.

我几乎在任何我想玩的地方都会被踢出去。

And sometimes, I would take friends there.

有时，我会带朋友去那里。

They just wanted to see me get kicked out of some place.

他们只是想看到我被赶出某个地方。

[LAUGHTER] Play for a little bit.

[笑声]玩一会儿。

After, you know, 15 minutes, an hour, they'd come over and ask me to leave.

你知道，15 分钟、一个小时之后，他们就会过来请我离开。

Now, I don't know if I should assume that you've played blackjack or you know rules, but if you haven't played or you don't know, here are the rules.

现在，我不知道是否应该假设您玩过二十一点或者您知道规则，但如果您没有玩过或者您不知道，这里是规则。

Everybody at the table gets cards.

桌上的每个人都拿到了卡片。

You can ask for more cards if you want.

如果需要，您可以索取更多卡片。

The way that you do that is that you tell the dealer, hit me.

你这样做的方法就是告诉经销商，打我。

You want your cards to add up as close to 21 as possible without going over.

您希望您的牌的点数加起来尽可能接近 21，而不会超出。

It's very simple, so simple that, when you play, it feels winnable.

它非常简单，简单到当你玩的时候，就感觉可以赢。

And it seems like everybody who you meet who plays blackjack has a system.

似乎你遇到的每个玩二十一点的人都有一个系统。

Everyone thinks they can beat it.

每个人都认为自己可以打败它。

Yeah, I've heard a lot of crazy systems about blackjack.

是的，我听过很多关于二十一点的疯狂系统。

You know, the best myths are the ones that are based in fact.

你知道，最好的神话都是基于事实的神话。

And it is a fact that you can beat blackjack.

事实是，你可以打败二十一点。

You can actually beat the casinos.

你实际上可以打败赌场。

And the idea that it's possible to beat the casino is what made blackjack so popular.

能够击败赌场的想法正是二十一点如此受欢迎的原因。

I think this is what makes blackjack so special, is that you think you can beat it.

我认为这就是二十一点如此特别的原因，就是你认为你可以打败它。

But, of course, as soon as you start to think you can beat it, it gets you into trouble.

但是，当然，一旦你开始认为你可以打败它，它就会给你带来麻烦。

Here's how diabolical blackjack is.

这就是二十一点的邪恶之处。

Unlike most casino games, if you play blackjack correctly, the casino barely has an edge.

与大多数赌场游戏不同，如果你正确玩二十一点，赌场几乎没有优势。

The odds are very close to 50-50.

赔率非常接近 50-50。

You win almost half the time.

你几乎赢了一半。

So the dream of winning is right there in front of you, just out of reach.

所以获胜的梦想就在你的面前，只是遥不可及。

And if you did have a system that could beat blackjack, imagine what that would mean.

如果您确实有一个可以击败二十一点的系统，想象一下这意味着什么。

It's like, the money is just sitting there in casinos everywhere, all over the world, huge stacks of chips and $100 bills waiting for you to take them home.

就好像，钱就放在世界各地的赌场里，一大堆筹码和 100 美元的钞票等着你把它们带回家。

No job?

没有工作？

Bad economy?

经济不好？

If blackjack is beatable, your problems are solved.

如果二十一点是可以打败的，那么你的问题就解决了。

Today, on our program, we watch people run after that dream, including some fine, upright, God-fearing people, including Robyn and me.

今天，在我们的节目中，我们看到人们追逐这个梦想，其中包括一些优秀、正直、敬畏上帝的人，包括罗宾和我。

Stay with us, and good luck with that ace.

留在我们身边，祝你好运。

OK, so, when Andy Bloch says that you can beat the casinos, he is talking specifically about counting cards to change the odds.

好吧，所以，当安迪·布洛赫（Andy Bloch）说你可以打败赌场时，他指的是通过算牌来改变赔率。

The mathematics of counting cards was nailed down in the 1950s and '60s.

算牌的数学原理在 20 世纪 50 年代和 60 年代就已经确定。

There is a way to count cards that definitively gives you an edge over the house.

有一种计算牌的方法可以让你在赌场中绝对有优势。

And you don't need to be a Rain Man or have a photographic memory to pull this off.

你不需要成为雨人或拥有过目不忘的记忆力来实现这一目标。

A normal person can do it.

一个正常人就能做到。

So Robyn and I decided that we wanted to learn.

所以罗宾和我决定我们想要学习。

And I could pretend right now that there is a high-minded, journalistic reason for this.

我现在可以假装这有一个高尚的新闻原因。

You know, we wouldn't really understand what blackjack is all about if we didn't dive in ourselves.

你知道，如果我们不深入研究，我们就不会真正理解二十一点到底是什么。

That would be a lie.

那是一个谎言。

We'd both heard of card counting.

我们都听说过算牌。

We wanted to try for the same reasons that anybody does.

我们想要尝试的原因和其他人一样。

We thought it would be so awesome to beat blackjack.

我们认为击败二十一点会很棒。

And the thought that we would be doing it during our jobs, that we would be in a casino when the rest of the staff was back at the office editing and writing-- amazing.

想到我们会在工作期间做这件事，当其他员工回到办公室编辑和写作时，我们会在赌场里——真是太棒了。

So I can tell you what we learned in, like, two minutes.

所以我可以告诉你我们在两分钟内学到了什么。

Here is how card counting works.

以下是算牌的工作原理。

Please remember this public radio station if it makes you rich.

如果这个公共广播电台能让你致富，请记住它。

The basic idea is, for lots of reasons that we don't need to get into here, tens and aces are to your advantage as a blackjack player.

其基本思想是，出于很多我们不需要在这里讨论的原因，十点和 A 对您作为二十一点玩家来说是有利的。

So, as the cards are dealt, what you want to know is, are there lots of tens and aces left in the deck for you to get?

因此，当发牌时，您想知道的是，这副牌中是否还剩下很多 10 和 A 可供您获得？

And by tens, I should say I just don't mean, like, the 10 of hearts, and the 10 of spades, and all that, but I mean, like, the face cards that add 10 to your hand when you play blackjack.

说到十，我应该说我并不是指红心 10 和黑桃 10 等等，而是指当您玩二十一点时为您的手牌添加 10 的花牌。

OK.

好的。

So still with me?

那么还和我在一起吗？

You want tens and aces, and you count.

你想要 10 和 A，然后你就数数。

And this is important.

这很重要。

You're not going to keep track of the position of every single card.

您不会跟踪每张牌的位置。

You're not memorizing the deck.

你没有记住这副牌。

That would be insane.

那太疯狂了。

They invented something that is way, way easier than that.

他们发明了比这简单得多的东西。

You just keep a running tally, a very rough one, of tens and aces.

你只需保留一个连续的计数，一个非常粗略的计数，包括 10 和 A。

You start your tally at zero.

您从零开始计数。

When a 10 or an ace is dealt, you subtract one from the tally.

当发出 10 或 A 时，您将从计数中减去 1。

When a low card comes out, you add one.

当出现低牌时，您添加一张。

That's it.

就是这样。

That's the whole thing.

这就是全部事情。

The running tally, that one number, that's all you need to know.

运行统计，那个数字，这就是你需要知道的全部。

Again, here's Andy Bloch.

这是安迪·布洛赫的报道。

It's not a complicated thing.

这并不是一件复杂的事情。

You don't need a great memory.

你不需要很好的记忆力。

You don't need to know how many queens are left in the deck.

你不需要知道这副牌里还剩下多少张皇后。

You just need to know that one number.

您只需要知道那个数字即可。

And when that one number, when you're running tally gets up to seven, or eight, or nine, it means that there are lots of aces and tens left in the deck.

当你计算的数字达到七、八或九时，这意味着牌堆里还剩下很多 A 和 10。

So it's good for you, right?

所以这对你有好处，对吗？

It's really, really good for you.

这对你来说真的非常非常好。

And that is the time that you want to start to bet big.

这就是你想要开始下大注的时候。

Like, your bet should jump up to five times what it was, Andy says.

安迪说，就像，你的赌注应该增加到原来的五倍。

All you have to do is keep your running tally.

您所要做的就是记录跑步记录。

And Andy demonstrated here.

安迪在这里进行了演示。

He dealt cards into a pile to demonstrate how that works.

他把牌分成一堆来演示它是如何运作的。

So minus one, zero, plus one, plus two, plus one, plus two, plus three, plus two.

所以减一，零，加一，加二，加一，加二，加三，加二。

Then it was time for Robyn and I to try this.

然后我和罗宾就该尝试一下了。

Note that the pace changes just a little.

请注意，速度略有变化。

Plus two.

加两个。

Ira Glass Plus two-- it was a three.

艾拉·格拉斯加上两个——这是一个三。

You know, I'm getting confused over which one gets the plus and which gets the minus.

你知道，我对哪个获得加号、哪个获得减号感到困惑。

It's really confusing.

真是令人困惑。

Andy Bloch You're sad when tens and aces come out, especially when you don't get them.

安迪·布洛赫（Andy Bloch）：当 10 和 A 出现时，你会感到难过，尤其是当你没有得到它们时。

You're sad when tens and aces come out, which is why they get subtracted.

当 10 和 A 出现时你会感到难过，这就是为什么它们会被减去。

We tried a few more times.

我们又尝试了几次。

Andy would deal.

安迪会处理。

Robyn and I would keep the count in our heads.

罗宾和我会把计数记在心里。

At the end, he would ask us the count.

最后，他会问我们伯爵。

OK, what'd you get?

好吧，你得到了什么？

Ira Glass Minus five.

艾拉·格拉斯减五。

Ira Glass Finally, on our fourth try, Andy dealt the cards, we kept the count in our heads, and at the end--

艾拉·格拉斯 最后，在我们第四次尝试时，安迪发牌了，我们把数记在心里，最后——

Negative eight.

负八。

Ira Glass That's what I have too.

Ira Glass 我也有这个。

All right.

好的。

You guys both win.

你们都赢了。

Negative eight.

负八。

And so, the next day, we headed to Atlantic City.

于是，第二天，我们前往大西洋城。

We headed to the casino to hit the tables and try our techniques at the lowest stakes tables possible.

我们前往赌场玩牌桌，并在尽可能低的赌注牌桌上尝试我们的技术。

We basically went into the kiddie pool.

我们基本上去了儿童泳池。

We skied the bunny hill.

我们在兔子山滑雪。

Did we win?

我们赢了吗？

Did the casino notice and send swarms of security guards with walkie-talkies to kindly ask us to play a different game?

赌场有没有注意到并派出一大群拿着对讲机的保安好心地要求我们玩不同的游戏？

What happened to us?

我们怎么了？

Later in this hour.

这个小时晚些时候。

Which brings us to Act One.

这让我们进入第一幕。

Act One, Render Unto Caesar's Palace What is Due Caesar's Palace.

第一幕，渲染凯撒宫殿 什么是凯撒宫殿。

When you think professional gamblers, you don't think Christians.

当你想到职业赌徒时，你不会想到基督徒。

But there was a team of blackjack-playing Christians.

但有一群玩二十一点的基督徒。

No joke.

不是开玩笑。

There's a documentary about it called Holy Rollers.

有一部关于它的纪录片叫做《Holy Rollers》。

They took in $3.5 million from casinos.

他们从赌场赚了 350 万美元。

To do that, the entire team had to know how to count cards.

为此，整个团队必须知道如何算牌。

They had skills.

他们有技能。

But beyond that, what did a Christian card-counting team have going for them that gave them an edge?

但除此之外，基督教算牌队还有什么优势可以给他们带来优势呢？

Former Sunday school teacher Jack Hitt decided to find out.

前主日学校老师杰克·希特决定找出答案。

The way Ben tells the story, it all began where so many great ideas originate, reading in the bathroom.

本讲述故事的方式，一切都始于许多伟大想法的起源，即在浴室里读书。

It was a book about gambling, and there was a three-page chapter on blackjack explaining how to count cards.

这是一本关于赌博的书，其中有一个关于二十一点的三页章节解释了如何算牌。

And Ben thought, I could do this.

本想，我能做到。

He waited tables back then, minimum wage work.

那时他是服务员，工资最低。

And he had just had his first kid.

他刚刚生了第一个孩子。

He and his wife were broke, and so one day, he came up with a plan to take their last $800 to a dinky Casino outside of Seattle, and he won.

他和他的妻子破产了，所以有一天，他想出了一个计划，把最后的 800 美元带到西雅图郊外的一家小型赌场，结果他赢了。

The first day, I remember making, maybe it was $500 or $1,000 in one night.

我记得第一天一晚上赚的钱可能是 500 美元或 1,000 美元。

And I've never seen money move like that before.

我以前从未见过资金以这样的方式流动。

You know, I was used to waiting tables.

你知道，我习惯了当服务员。

And every once in a while, I would get a $10 tip and maybe make $100 a night.

每隔一段时间，我就会得到 10 美元的小费，也许一晚就能赚到 100 美元。

But I just remember being fascinated by how fast this cash could move back and forth.

但我只记得我对这笔现金来回流动的速度感到着迷。

It was just I started to see money differently.

只是我开始以不同的方式看待金钱。

Ben formed a small crew of card counters to hit the casinos together, and they did OK for a while.

本组建了一小群算牌者，一起去赌场，他们有一段时间表现还不错。

But after three years, that team fell apart.

但三年后，这个团队就解散了。

Ben said they just had different values.

本说他们只是价值观不同。

And so Ben and another player, his good friend Colin, decided that if they were going to create a great team, then they had to find new members they could trust completely.

因此本和另一位球员，他的好朋友科林，决定如果他们要创建一支伟大的球队，那么他们必须找到他们可以完全信任的新成员。

And that's when it hit them.

就在那时，他们受到了打击。

The perfect source of blackjack players.

二十一点玩家的完美来源。

It was right in front of them, at least on Sundays-- church.

至少在周日，教堂就在他们面前。

Basically, all these people had been watching us play blackjack for the last three years.

基本上，过去三年来，所有这些人都在观看我们玩二十一点。

And they didn't know a lot about it, but they knew that I had bought a house with the winnings.

他们对此了解不多，但他们知道我用奖金买了房子。

So there was all these, kind of, family members that had heard of the story and, I think, frankly, were just excited about the story.

所以，所有这些家庭成员都听说过这个故事，坦率地说，我认为他们只是对这个故事感到兴奋。

And me and my business partner, Colin, we went to different churches, so he had people from his church coming to him.

我和我的商业伙伴科林去了不同的教堂，所以他的教堂里有人来找他。

And you know, word was kind of spreading.

你知道，消息已经传播开来。

And people were like, oh, I heard about this blackjack thing.

人们就像，哦，我听说过二十一点的事情。

Are you guys hiring people?

你们还招人吗？

And if it was the right person, we would never say no.

如果是合适的人，我们永远不会拒绝。

Now that Ben and Colin had their players, they needed more money, a lot more money, if they hoped to win big.

现在本和科林有了他们的球员，如果他们希望赢得大胜利，他们需要更多的钱，更多的钱。

So they went to the same source.

所以他们去了同一个源头。

Using PowerPoint presentations, they showed their fellow Christians how much they'd been winning not using luck or prayer, just math.

他们使用 PowerPoint 演示文稿，向基督徒同胞们展示了他们赢得了多少胜利，而不是靠运气或祈祷，而是靠数学。

And at the end of this presentation, here's what they pulled off.

在本次演示结束时，他们的成果如下。

They convinced churchgoers to cash out their savings and retirement funds and hand them over to a pack of young people to carry straight into the devil's playground and risk at blackjack tables.

他们说服常去教堂的人把积蓄和退休金兑现，交给一群年轻人，让他们直接进入魔鬼的游乐场，在二十一点牌桌上冒险。

Now, I know what you're thinking.

现在，我知道你在想什么。

Wait, where's the Christ in cheating at blackjack?

等等，二十一点作弊的基督在哪里？

And isn't gambling a sin, or just wrong?

赌博难道不是一种罪过，或者说是错误的吗？

Turns out all the players asked those questions too.

事实证明所有玩家也都问了这些问题。

In fact, Ben said part of training a new team member always seemed to involve a moment when the player would be stricken by a crisis of faith.

事实上，本说，训练新队员的过程中似乎总会有球员遭遇信仰危机的时刻。

Ben said he got quite good at these rap sessions, and here was his argument.

本说他在这些说唱方面表现得非常好，这是他的论点。

Yes, gambling's wrong.

是的，赌博是不对的。

No question about that.

毫无疑问。

But they weren't gambling at all, because they counted cards.

但他们根本不是赌博，因为他们数牌。

Here's one of the players, Mike.

这是其中一位球员，迈克。

He'll explain.

他会解释的。

As a card counter, you go in there thinking there's no such thing as luck.

作为一名算牌者，你走进去会认为根本不存在运气这回事。

There's only math.

只有数学。

We're going to sit down and work for eight hours and make money.

我们要坐下来工作八个小时来赚钱。

And that's the exact opposite of what 99.9% of all people do in a casino.

这与 99.9% 的人在赌场所做的恰恰相反。

But even if you square in your heart that card counting is not a sin morally, isn't it illegal in some states, or at least considered cheating by the casinos?

但即使你内心认为算牌在道德上不是犯罪，但在某些州这不是非法的，或者至少被赌场视为作弊吗？

I ran this by Ben, the founder, who could not wait to correct me.

我是由创始人 Ben 负责的，他迫不及待地纠正我。

No, it's not.

不，不是。

No, one of the biggest misconceptions ever-- and this drives me nuts, because it's so fundamental, but people don't get it, and I guess that's to the casino's credit, is people actually think that this is violating the rules of a casino.

不，有史以来最大的误解之一 - 这让我发疯，因为它是如此基本，但人们不明白，我想这是赌场的功劳，人们实际上认为这违反了赌场的规则。

But we follow every rule the casino has.

但我们遵守赌场的每一条规则。

In fact, if you call up a casino and you ask them, is it against the law to count cards?

事实上，如果你打电话给赌场并询问他们，数牌是否违法？

Is it against your rules to count cards?

数牌违反你们的规则吗？

They'll be like, uh, well, no, not really, but it is kind of frowned upon.

他们会说，呃，好吧，不，不是真的，但这有点令人不悦。

How could that be?

怎么可能呢？

We all know that casinos spend tons of money on overhead cameras and security guys to detect card counters.

我们都知道，赌场在高架摄像头和保安人员上花费了大量资金来检测算牌器。

So I called the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, and Ben was right, card counting isn't illegal.

所以我打电话给拉斯维加斯的米高梅大酒店，本是对的，算牌并不违法。

In fact, the spokeswoman said it wasn't even against the rules, though they do discourage it.

事实上，该发言人表示，这甚至不违反规则，尽管他们确实不鼓励这样做。

She told me that if they catch you, they'll ask you to go play other games, a process known as backing off.

她告诉我，如果他们抓住你，他们会要求你去玩其他游戏，这个过程称为“后退”。

Or if they really don't like what you're doing, they will tell you to leave and that you're not allowed back.

或者，如果他们真的不喜欢你所做的事情，他们会告诉你离开，并且不允许你回来。

But for the most part, casinos just don't like to dissuade anyone from gambling, even card counters.

但在大多数情况下，赌场只是不喜欢劝阻任何人赌博，甚至是算牌的人。

Maybe because most of them are so bad at it, they lose money anyway.

也许因为他们中的大多数人都太糟糕了，所以他们无论如何都会赔钱。

And so they pulled it off.

他们成功了。

Ben and Colin kept training more and more churchgoers, flying the members of their congregation to casinos all over the country.

本和科林不断培训越来越多的信徒，让他们的信徒乘坐飞机前往全国各地的赌场。

Soon enough, the casinos began to treat them as whales-- that's what they call big-time gamblers-- rewarding them with comps, free rooms, cases of liquor.

很快，赌场开始将他们视为“鲸鱼”——他们称之为“大赌徒”——用奖金、免费房间和成箱的酒来奖励他们。

They'd come home with amazing stories of winning thousands, sometimes tens of thousands on the perfectly laid bet.

他们带着令人惊叹的故事回家，赢得了数千甚至数万的完美赌注。

Bragging rights all around.

四处吹嘘的权利。

In order to convince the casinos that they were reckless high rollers and not card counters, they'd often wear costumes and take on personas, everything from golf pro to what one team member called "gay art collector." In this scene from the documentary, you see Colin dressed as a mechanic in a jumpsuit and baseball cap.

为了让赌场相信他们是鲁莽的豪客而不是算牌者，他们经常穿着戏服并扮演各种角色，从高尔夫职业选手到一位团队成员所说的“同性恋艺术收藏家”。在纪录片的这个场景中，您可以看到科林穿着连身裤，戴着棒球帽，打扮成机械师。

Ben, meanwhile, has gone full-on goth, white face paint, black lipstick with black outfit, and even black fingernails.

与此同时，本则完全是哥特风格，脸上涂着白色的颜料，涂着黑色的口红，搭配黑色的衣服，甚至还有黑色的指甲。

But they never forgot this was a business, and business was good.

但他们从来没有忘记这是一门生意，而且生意很好。

To give you a sense of just how good, at the height of their team in 2007, Ben and Colin were rotating as many as 30 trained blackjack players through their transcontinental circuit.

为了让您感受到他们的团队有多优秀，在 2007 年，Ben 和 Colin 在他们的团队鼎盛时期，在他们的横贯大陆巡回赛中轮换了多达 30 名训练有素的二十一点玩家。

And remember, they would hand each member of the flock tens of thousands, sometimes as much as $80,000.

请记住，他们会给羊群中的每个成员数万美元，有时甚至高达 80,000 美元。

And because you can't transfer money like that through, say, an ATM, the players carried this cash in envelopes stuffed in their pockets.

因为你不能通过自动取款机这样的方式转账，所以玩家们将这些现金装在信封里塞在口袋里。

At the end of each trip, the members would return to Ben and Colin and report back their hours and winnings or losses.

每次旅行结束时，成员都会回到本和科林那里，报告他们的工作时间以及赢利或损失。

This was all done on the honor system.

这一切都是在荣誉系统上完成的。

You can see why finding trustworthy, churchgoing collaborators was so important.

您会明白为什么找到值得信赖、常去教堂的合作者如此重要。

When the whole team achieved a certain goal, $100,000 in winnings, they'd split the profits.

当整个团队实现某个目标，即赢得 100,000 美元时，他们就会瓜分利润。

And every quarter, Ben and Colin would host a team meeting at one of their houses in Seattle.

每个季度，本和科林都会在他们位于西雅图的一所房子里召开团队会议。

Here's Colin at the big meeting in 2008.

这是科林在 2008 年大型会议上的照片。

You know, it's been another good quarter.

你知道，这又是一个不错的季度。

Any guesses on how much we took from casinos in 2007?

你猜猜 2007 年我们从赌场拿了多少钱？

$900,000.

90万美元。

Colin $900,000, 1.2, a million, something like that.

科林 90 万美元、1.2 美元、一百万美元，诸如此类。

[APPLAUSE] $1.58 million taken out of casinos this year.

[掌声] 今年赌场被盗走 158 万美元。

I'm excited to take more money from casinos next year.

我很高兴明年能从赌场赚更多的钱。

So for those of you that hate casinos, we're doing our part.

因此，对于那些讨厌赌场的人来说，我们正在尽自己的一份力量。

Did you catch that last part?

你明白最后一部分了吗？

If you hate casinos.

如果你讨厌赌场。

Even after all the talk of it being a business and not gambling, there was still this nagging sense that what they were doing was somehow not part of the Christian mission.

即使在谈论这是一项生意而不是赌博之后，仍然有一种挥之不去的感觉，即他们所做的事情在某种程度上不属于基督教使命的一部分。

They were bleeding the casinos of evil money, doing their part.

他们在赌场里榨取黑钱，尽自己的一份力量。

But occasionally, some players began to feel there was something wrong with what they were doing.

但偶尔，一些玩家开始觉得自己的做法有问题。

Take Mike.

以迈克为例。

He had joined the team with the most Christian of all intentions.

他加入这个团队的初衷是最符合基督教精神的。

He used to be a youth pastor.

他曾经是一名青年牧师。

His crisis of faith began with the ninth commandment, thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

他的信仰危机始于第九条诫命：不可作假见证陷害你的邻舍。

Weren't all these costumes and fake biographies bearing false witness?

这些服装和假传记不都是虚假的见证吗？

High rollers are never mid-20 white kids.

豪赌客从来都不是20岁左右的白人孩子。

Never.

绝不。

And then they say, so what's your story, man?

然后他们说，那么你的故事是什么，伙计？

What do you do?

你做什么工作？

Well, what do I say at that point, you know?

好吧，那我该说什么，你知道吗？

Well, in the beginning of the team, I lied.

好吧，在团队之初，我撒了谎。

I used to create crazy stories, because I thought it was fun.

我曾经创作疯狂的故事，因为我觉得这很有趣。

I told at Hard Rock-- I remember they said, so, hey, what's your deal?

我在 Hard Rock 说过——我记得他们说，所以，嘿，你的交易是什么？

I was like, oh, I work for Fox.

我当时想，哦，我为福克斯工作。

I'm an animal agent.

我是一名动物代理人。

I actually do agent stuff for animals in movies.

事实上，我在电影中为动物做代理。

Maybe you've seen Bart the Bear in Legends of the Fall?

也许您看过《秋季传奇》中的熊巴特？

I do stuff like that.

我做类似的事情。

So I'm telling them this story.

所以我给他们讲这个故事。

And the kid next to me playing, he says, no way!

我旁边的孩子在玩，他说，不可能！

I work for Fox too!

我也为福克斯工作！

And he starts describing the offices and asking which building I work out of.

他开始描述办公室并询问我在哪栋大楼工作。

And I thought, are you kidding me?

我想，你在开玩笑吗？

The one time I say something off the top of my head, the guy sitting next to me works for Fox.

有一次我突然说出一些话，坐在我旁边的那个人在福克斯工作。

Do you think that was some divine intervention there?

你认为这是神的干预吗？

It probably was.

可能是的。

Maybe God saying, shut up.

也许上帝说，闭嘴。

Just tell them the truth.

只要告诉他们真相即可。

I felt guilty right after I said that.

说完这句话，我立刻感到愧疚。

It was wrong, and it was a sin to lie to them.

这是错误的，对他们撒谎是一种罪过。

And there were other deceptions too.

还有其他欺骗行为。

One involved playing in pairs.

其中一项涉及两人一组玩耍。

One person would count cards at the table, then they'd signal another teammate across the room to join the game and start betting big when the count favored the players.

一个人会在牌桌上数牌，然后他们会向房间另一边的另一位队友发出信号，让他加入游戏，并在计数对玩家有利时开始下大注。

So you had to have a signal that looked like it wasn't a signal at all.

所以你必须有一个看起来根本不是信号的信号。

Oh, crossing of the arms.

哦，双臂交叉。

Yeah, it's really subtle.

是的，这确实很微妙。

So we would cross our arms if it was a good count, and we would leave our arms open if it wasn't a high enough count.

因此，如果计数良好，我们会交叉双臂；如果计数不够高，我们会张开双臂。

This is Shirley.

这是雪莉。

Not her real name, by the way.

顺便说一句，这不是她的真名。

Shirley used this tactic a lot.

雪莉经常使用这种策略。

Among card counters, stepping up to the table right when it's hot is so well-known that it has a name, Wonging, from a famous counter known as Stanford Wong.

在算牌者中，趁热了就上桌的做法非常有名，以至于它有一个名字“Wonging”，来自一位著名的算牌者斯坦福·黄 (Stanford Wong)。

There was this one time for Shirley, the most nerve-wracking bet of her life, that involved this exact tactic.

对于雪莉来说，有一次，这是她一生中最伤脑筋的赌注，就涉及到这种策略。

I was at The Venetian in Las Vegas.

我当时在拉斯维加斯的威尼斯人酒店。

I was playing at a table.

我正在一张桌子上玩。

I had just finished, and there was actually another guy on the team who was playing at the same pit across from me.

我刚刚打完，实际上队里还有另一个人在我对面的同一个坑里打球。

And he gave me the sign to, what we call, "Wong in." It means you go over and you go to the table, because the count is good, the table's hot.

他给了我一个手势，我们称之为“黄进来”。这意味着你走过去，走到桌子旁，因为计数很好，桌子很热。

So Shirley walked up to the table and put down her bet, a massive bet, and then another, and another.

于是雪莉走到赌桌前，下了赌注，下了一大笔赌注，然后又下了一个，又一个。

It was phenomenal, because we kept winning and winning.

这是惊人的，因为我们不断获胜。

There is layers of people behind us.

我们的背后有层层人。

We've got security around us.

我们周围有保安。

It's so intense.

太激烈了。

So I get two hands of 20.

所以我得到了两只 20 的牌。

I got four tens, basically, which you think would be a great hand.

基本上，我有四张十，你认为这将是一手好牌。

The dealer pulls up a six.

庄家开出了六张牌。

That means I have to split my tens.

这意味着我必须分开我的十个。

OK, a quick explanation for those of you who don't play.

好吧，给那些不玩的人一个简单的解释。

In blackjack, you're trying to get close to 21.

在二十一点中，您要尝试接近 21 点。

Two tens add up to 20, so that's a really good hand.

两个十加起来就是20，所以这是一手非常好的牌。

Splitting tens is crazy, what they call a deviation, and Shirley has just done it, twice.

分裂十是疯狂的，他们称之为偏差，而雪莉刚刚做到了两次。

But it's not crazy, if you happen to know that the deck is momentarily packed with high cards and that the dealer probably would bust.

但如果你碰巧知道这副牌暂时挤满了大牌并且庄家可能会爆牌，那么这并不疯狂。

So I split my tens, and then I put another two grand on the other 10.

所以我把我的十分开，然后我把另外两个盛大放在另外的十上。

And people are just like, what's she doing?

人们就像，她在做什么？

Whoa!

哇！

I mean, there's like comments from the crowd.

我的意思是，人群中也有类似的评论。

I mean, people-- it's so much adrenaline when you are doing something that is completely against the blackjack book, but it's exactly what you're supposed to be doing.

我的意思是，朋友们，当你做一些完全违背二十一点规则的事情时，会让人肾上腺素飙升，但这正是你应该做的。

It's the right deviation, and you know you're going to kill it and win.

这是正确的偏差，你知道你会杀死它并获胜。

Oh, my goodness, it was crazy.

哦，天哪，太疯狂了。

I ended up with $22,000 on that one hand by the time it was over.

当比赛结束时，我的那只手牌最终赢得了 22,000 美元。

It was insane, because I kept getting tens, and I kept splitting them.

这太疯狂了，因为我不断地得到十个，而且我不断地把它们分开。

And I'm super, like, excited but nervous at the same time, hoping that this dealer busts out, which he's supposed to do.

我非常兴奋，但同时也很紧张，希望这个荷官能成功，这是他应该做的。

And the dealer didn't bust.

而且经销商并没有破产。

Even though the dealer didn't bust as he was supposed to, it didn't matter.

尽管庄家没有像他预想的那样破产，但这并不重要。

Splitting those tens and making such massive bets gave her away to security.

分割这几十个并进行如此大的赌注让她陷入了安全困境。

It's a red flag.

这是一个危险信号。

When you've got 20 and you're splitting it, they know that something's going on.

当你有 20 块钱并且要平分时，他们就知道发生了什么事。

And they can't catch onto it while you're doing your hand that quickly and make it all stop, but no. And I never played at The Venetian after that.

当你这么快地做你的手时，他们无法抓住它并让一切停止，但没有。从那以后我就再也没有在威尼斯人打过球。

For some of the other card counters, they faced a different crisis of faith, the commandment about stealing.

对于其他一些算牌者来说，他们面临着不同的信仰危机，即关于偷窃的诫命。

Remember, you're carrying around tens of thousands of dollars in your pocket and winning tens of thousands more.

请记住，您的口袋里有数万美元，并且还赢得了数万美元。

And nobody knows how much you've won or lost, except you.

除了你自己之外，没有人知道你赢了或输了多少。

Here's another team member named Dusty.

这是另一位名叫达斯蒂的团队成员。

After my very first trip-- I had gone with this guy in California-- we're, like, doing our results after we got home and, like, totaling up our cash, and I'm like, man, I'm off by exactly $10,000.

在我第一次旅行之后——我和加州的一个人一起去了——我们回家后做了我们的结果，然后把我们的现金加起来，我想，伙计，我正好少了 10,000 美元。

That's weird.

这很奇怪。

I must be missing 10 grand.

我一定是少了10块钱。

And he's like, no, what's the likelihood that you just dropped $10,000 somewhere?

他说，不，你刚刚在某个地方掉了 10,000 美元的可能性有多大？

You probably just miscounted one of your results.

您可能只是误算了其中一项结果。

So turn one of your losses, you know, into-- just correct the miscalculation, which, you're like, is horrible.

所以，你知道，把你的损失之一变成——只是纠正错误的计算，你会觉得这太可怕了。

That's, like, falsifying what happened.

这就像伪造所发生的事情一样。

But this guy's been on the team longer than me.

但这家伙加入团队的时间比我长。

He knows better than me.

他比我更了解。

I'm like, oh, OK, I guess that makes sense.

我想，哦，好吧，我想这是有道理的。

Lo and behold, months later, my niece pulls a couch cushion off of this couch, and there it is, $10,000.

你瞧，几个月后，我的侄女从沙发上拉下沙发垫，结果就是 10,000 美元。

Which means he was faced with a choice, keep the money or confess the mistake.

这意味着他面临着一个选择，要么保留钱，要么承认错误。

Dusty confessed.

达斯蒂承认了。

But you can see how easy it would be to steal, and they all knew it.

但你可以看到偷窃是多么容易，而且他们都知道这一点。

In time, their trust in each other began to fray, and suspicions that some of the members were stealing grew.

随着时间的推移，他们对彼此的信任开始减弱，人们越来越怀疑其中一些成员正在偷窃。

One player lost big one night and phoned a lot of the other players.

一名球员有一天晚上损失惨重，并给其他很多球员打电话。

He was hysterical that he had cost the team so much.

他歇斯底里地意识到他让球队付出了如此大的代价。

But their reaction?

但他们的反应呢？

That he probably hadn't lost, but was stealing.

他可能没有输，而是偷了。

Ben, the founder of the group, told me about one time when a team member claimed that he'd never even contemplated stealing.

该组织的创始人本告诉我，有一次，一名团队成员声称他从未考虑过偷窃。

That struck Ben as unusual, and he immediately began suspecting that player of stealing.

这让本觉得很不寻常，他立即开始怀疑那个球员偷窃。

(INTERVIEWER) JACK HITT: Do you think some of the members of your team did steal money?

（采访者）杰克·希特：您认为您团队中的某些成员确实偷了钱吗？

Yeah, I know people on this team stole money.

是的，我知道这个团队里的人偷了钱。

In fact, to be really honest, one of the decisions I made very recently was to go back to the founding members of the team before our team took off, and I admitted to them that I stole money from them.

事实上，说实话，我最近做出的决定之一就是在我们团队起飞之前回到团队的创始成员那里，我向他们承认我偷了他们的钱。

$8,000, I think.

我想是 8,000 美元。

Jack Hitt And did you pay it back?

杰克·希特 你还钱了吗？

Yeah, I paid it back.

是的，我已经还钱了。

The money was stolen from me from my car, and I had the choice of whether to report it or not.

我车里的钱被偷了，我可以选择是否举报。

And at the time, I made a very quick decision, and I decided that our family couldn't afford it.

当时我就做出了一个非常快的决定，我觉得我们家买不起。

And I just fudged the paperwork, and I said that I lost it at a casino.

我只是捏造了文件，​​我说我在赌场丢了它。

So those were three of my close friends.

那是我的三个亲密朋友。

And I had to go to those guys years later and tell them the truth.

几年后我不得不去找那些人并告诉他们真相。

Throughout it all, playing blackjack never stopped being a little strange for the Christians, trying to make money surrounded by almost every temptation, free booze, plane tickets, beautiful prostitutes, easy money.

自始至终，玩二十一点对于基督徒来说一直有点奇怪，试图在几乎所有诱惑、免费酒水、机票、漂亮妓女、轻松赚钱的包围下赚钱。

But they had to stay focused on their job, counting cards.

但他们必须专注于自己的工作，数牌。

For some, it was lonesome, like Jesus in the wilderness.

对于一些人来说，这是孤独的，就像旷野中的耶稣一样。

Here's Mike, in the desert of Las Vegas.

这是迈克，在拉斯维加斯的沙漠中。

It's funny, I talked to one of the guys on the team about what I did, and he had the exact same experience.

有趣的是，我和团队中的一个人谈论了我所做的事情，他也有完全相同的经历。

Go up to my suite, which was usually, you know, 1,100, 1,200 square feet, gigantic, big TVs everywhere, bars.

上楼去我的套房，通常有 1,100、1,200 平方英尺，到处都是巨大的大电视、酒吧。

I had one that had a stripper pole in the bathroom.

我有一间浴室里有一根脱衣杆。

But I would be by myself, or with other card counters.

但我会自己一个人，或者和其他算牌的人一起。

I traveled with one or two other of the players.

我和另外一两个球员一起旅行。

And I would go up into my casino room, and I would order some real simple meal, you know, like a club sandwich.

我会走进我的赌场房间，点一些真正简单的饭菜，你知道，比如俱乐部三明治。

And then I would just sit in the chair, no music, no television, and just look out the window over the Strip and feel lonely, because you felt isolated.

然后我就坐在椅子上，没有音乐，没有电视，只是看着窗外的拉斯维加斯大道，感到孤独，因为你感到孤立。

You know, you can't be open with the casino, who you are.

你知道，你不能对赌场公开，你是谁。

And when you're open with your Christian friends, they're either way too excited about it, or they think you're doing the most evil thing in the world.

当你向基督徒朋友敞开心扉时，他们要么对此过于兴奋，要么认为你正在做世界上最邪恶的事情。

Jack Hitt In the end, the church team split up in 2011, and not because any of them succumbed to gambling or any other temptation.

杰克·希特 最终，教会团队于 2011 年解散，并不是因为他们中的任何人屈服于赌博或任何其他诱惑。

They believed in God and his glorious gift of math.

他们相信上帝和他光荣的数学天赋。

But apparently, God gave none of them the patience of Job needed to endure the mind-numbing work of card counting.

但显然，上帝没有给他们任何人像约伯那样的耐心来忍受令人麻木的算牌工作。

So they all went their separate ways.

于是他们就各走各的路了。

Even though many worked only half-time, 20-hour weeks, and earned a full-time wage, around $40,000 a year, it wasn't worth it.

尽管许多人只做半日制工作，每周工作 20 个小时，并赚取每年 4 万美元左右的全职工资，但这并不值得。

Mike now sells cell phones to pay for his studies at a pastor's college, and he intends to start a church when he gets out.

迈克现在靠卖手机来支付他在牧师学院的学费，他打算毕业后创办一家教堂。

Shirley returned to being a stay-at-home mom.

雪莉重新成为一名全职妈妈。

Even Ben and Colin bailed to take new jobs.

甚至本和科林也放弃接受新工作。

Colin starts websites now.

科林现在开始建立网站。

And Ben says he makes more money from doing internet marketing than he did from playing blackjack.

本说他通过网络营销赚的钱比玩二十一点赚的钱还要多。

God works in mysterious ways.

神以神秘的方式工作。

Sometimes, he enlightens you, like Paul on the road to Damascus-- a blinding epiphany convincing you to quit your old ways.

有时，他会启发你，就像保罗在去大马士革的路上一样——一种令人眼花缭乱的顿悟，说服你放弃旧的生活方式。

Other times, God gets you to virtue by boring you to death.

其他时候，上帝通过让你无聊得要死来让你获得美德。

Ira Glass Jack Hitt, he's the author most recently of the book Bunch of Amateurs.

艾拉·格拉斯·杰克·希特（Ira Glass Jack Hitt）是《业余爱好者》一书的最新作者。

The documentary about card-counting Christians is at HolyRollersTheMovie.com.

关于算牌基督徒的纪录片位于 HolyRollersTheMovie.com。

Coming up, when you can't bring down the house, just sue it.

等你拆不了房子的时候，就去起诉吧。

That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.

稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。

This American Life.

这美国生活。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.

当然，我们每周的节目都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。

Today's show, blackjack.

今天的节目，二十一点。

Queen, nine.

女王，九岁。

Robyn Semien Negative five.

罗宾·塞米恩 (Robyn Semien) 负五分。

On the bus to Atlantic City, This American Life producer, Robyn Semien, and I practiced counting cards on these card-counting apps that we downloaded to our phones.

在前往大西洋城的巴士上，《This American Life》制片人罗宾·塞米恩 (Robyn Semien) 和我在手机上下载的算牌应用程序上练习算牌。

There are dozens of these.

有几十个这样的。

If you heard the beginning of today's program, you heard that she and I took a lesson in card counting.

如果您听到了今天节目的开头，您就会听说我和她上了一堂算牌课。

Now, we headed to a casino to try it out.

现在，我们前往赌场尝试一下。

Robyn had mastered card counting much better than I had.

罗宾对算牌的掌握比我好得多。

I was much better at knowing proper blackjack strategy, you know, how to play the cards, when to hit, all that.

我更擅长了解正确的二十一点策略，你知道，如何打牌，何时打牌，等等。

In other words, as I told Robyn when we got off the bus--

换句话说，正如我们下车时我告诉罗宾的那样——

So, between the two of us, we comprise one competent player.

所以，我们两个人组成了一名有能力的球员。

Our tutor, Andy Bloch, said that one day of practice before we went into a casino would not be enough, that it would take weeks.

我们的导师安迪·布洛赫（Andy Bloch）说，在我们进入赌场之前一天的练习是不够的，这需要几周的时间。

And he was right.

他是对的。

Robyn could count the cards, but it was so difficult, it required such focus, that she had trouble speaking to anyone at all.

罗宾可以数牌，但这太困难了，需要如此集中注意力，以至于她根本无法与任何人交谈。

People at the table-- it was all guys-- would say things to Robyn.

餐桌上的人——都是男人——会对罗宾说一些话。

They asked if we were on our honeymoon at one point.

他们问我们是否曾经在度蜜月。

And uncharacteristically, Robyn said nothing.

罗宾一反常态，一言不发。

When we took a break after an hour, we found this empty lounge and recapped.

一小时后休息时，我们发现这个空荡荡的休息室并重述了一遍。

She had a headache from all the nonstop counting.

不停地数数让她头疼。

It was so hard.

太难了。

I can't say a sentence.

我一句话也说不出来。

I can't remember how to play basic blackjack.

我不记得如何玩基本的二十一点。

It's weird, like, I'm looking at these two cards, and I'm like, seven plus five-- that's my hand.

这很奇怪，就像，我看着这两张牌，我想，七加五——那是我的手牌。

What's seven plus five?

七加五等于多少？

What does that mean?

这意味着什么？

Like, I can't remember what the basic-- yeah, I just can't remember.

就像，我不记得基本的东西了——是的，我就是不记得了。

And then, as soon as that happens, everybody at the table starts telling you, oh, you have a 12.

然后，一旦发生这种情况，桌上的每个人都开始告诉你，哦，你有 12。

Here's what you're supposed to do.

这就是你应该做的。

Like, I love how everybody's just jumping in.

就像，我喜欢每个人都投入其中。

Oh, yeah, they were all there for me.

哦，是的，他们都在我身边。

It was a whole team of guys ready to tell me how to play.

这是一整队人准备告诉我如何打球。

That's totally comfortable, (COUGHS) yeah.

这非常舒服，（咳嗽）是的。

We made mistakes.

我们犯了错误。

Our biggest mistake, I think, was that the count at the table we were at was mostly negative.

我认为我们最大的错误是我们所在牌桌上的计数大多为负数。

It was mostly against us for most of the time that we sat there.

我们坐在那里的大部分时间都对我们不利。

I realized later that Andy would have gotten up and found a different table.

后来我意识到安迪会站起来找到另一张桌子。

The real pros switch tables a lot.

真正的职业选手经常更换牌桌。

But we held our own.

但我们坚持自己的立场。

And at the end of two hours, we were in a great situation.

两个小时结束后，我们的处境非常好。

The count was seven, and there were two decks left to deal.

数到了七，还剩下两副牌需要发牌。

And if you're not totally following this, all you need to know is that was good.

如果你不完全遵循这一点，你只需要知道那是好的。

That was good for us.

这对我们有好处。

It meant lots of good cards were coming.

这意味着很多好牌即将到来。

So we boosted our bets, just like you're supposed to, from the minimum bet at this casino, which was $10 a bet.

所以我们增加了我们的赌注，就像你应该的那样，从这个赌场的最低赌注开始，每次赌注 10 美元。

I bet $50.

我赌50美元。

Robyn bet $30.

罗宾赌 30 美元。

Cards were dealt.

发牌了。

I got a pair of tens.

我有一对十。

She got a pair of tens.

她有一对十。

These are, by the way, great hands.

顺便说一下，这些都是很棒的手。

You're trying to make 21, and we each had 20.

你想赚 21 个，而我们每个人都有 20 个。

The dealer had one card down, and the card that was showing was a five, one of the worst possible hands for the dealer.

庄家手里有一张牌，而亮出的牌是 5，这对庄家来说可能是最糟糕的牌之一。

Robyn and I talked about what happened next on the bus ride home.

罗宾和我在回家的巴士上谈论了接下来发生的事情。

And then the dealer ended up dealing herself 21.

然后庄家最终给自己发了 21 张牌。

Yeah.

是的。

She flipped her hole card.

她翻转了底牌。

It was also a five, so then she had 10.

这也是 5，所以她有 10。

And then she dealt herself another card, and it was an ace.

然后她又给自己发了一张牌，是一张A。

21.

21.

We should have split our tens.

我们应该分开十个。

You would have gotten that ace.

你本来会得到那张王牌。

OK, non-blackjack people, splitting tens is something that nobody would ever do, except a card counter.

好吧，非二十一点的人，除了算牌的人之外，没有人会做分裂十点的事情。

It's what gets the woman kicked out of the casino in Jack Hitt's story.

这就是杰克·希特故事中那个女人被赶出赌场的原因。

At Atlantic City, they don't kick you out.

在大西洋城，他们不会把你赶出去。

But if they spot you counting cards, they start shuffling the deck after every hand, or they come over and tell you that you can only bet the minimum bet at the table, which is basically telling you, go away.

但如果他们发现你在数牌，他们就会在每手牌后开始洗牌，或者他们过来告诉你，你只能下赌桌上的最低赌注，这基本上是在告诉你，走开。

But once Robyn brought up this idea that we should have split our tens, it was hard to let it go.

但一旦罗宾提出我们应该分开十个的想法，就很难放手。

Yeah.

是的。

Ira Glass It would have stopped her from getting the ace.

艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 这会阻止她获得王牌。

We would have made all sorts of extra money.

我们本来可以赚很多额外的钱。

And then they would have kicked us out for being so good.

然后他们就会因为我们表现出色而把我们踢出去。

That's all I wanted.

这就是我想要的。

Yeah.

是的。

Ira Glass Instead, we walked out in shame.

相反，我们羞愧地走了出去。

Instead, we just sucked.

相反，我们只是很糟糕。

Ira Glass We bet high when the count was good, just like you're supposed to.

艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）：当计数良好时，我们会下高注，就像你应该做的那样。

And dumb luck made us lose anyway, which is part of the game.

无论如何，运气不好让我们输了，这是游戏的一部分。

The dealer got 21, which beat our 20.

庄家得到了 21 点，比我们的 20 点高。

We made big bets, and then lost one more hand after that and walked away down.

我们下了很大的赌注，然后又输了一手牌，然后就走掉了。

Total losses-- this is my money, by the way, and it's a lot-- $348 in two hours, first time out.

总损失——顺便说一下，这是我的钱，而且很多——两小时内损失了 348 美元，第一次。

I just feel like we could have done better.

我只是觉得我们可以做得更好。

I think we should come back next week.

我想我们应该下周回来。

Yeah, me too.

是的，我也是。

We've both been practicing.

我们俩都一直在练习。

Act Two: Harrah's Today, Gone Tomorrow Ira Glass Act Two, Harrah's Today, Gone Tomorrow.

第二幕：哈拉的今天，明天的过去 艾拉·格拉斯 第二幕，哈拉的今天，明天的过去。

Now we have this story of somebody who thought that she knew how to play blackjack.

现在我们有一个故事，一个人认为她知道如何玩二十一点。

She played for years.

她玩了很多年。

She didn't count cards, but she says that she knew the basic strategy cold.

她不会数牌，但她说她对基本策略了如指掌。

We've changed her name to protect her privacy.

我们更改了她的名字以保护她的隐私。

Sarah Koenig tells what happened.

莎拉·柯尼格讲述了发生的事情。

One day in 2006, a woman I'm going to call Angie Bachmann went to the Caesars Indiana Casino and began to lose.

2006 年的一天，一位女士来到印第安纳凯撒赌场，开始输钱。

She played blackjack.

她玩二十一点。

That was always her game.

这一直是她的游戏。

But on this night when she ran out of her own money, the casino offered her what are called counter checks, like a loan from the casino that you're supposed to pay back.

但在这个晚上，当她用完自己的钱时，赌场向她提供了所谓的柜台支票，就像你应该偿还的赌场贷款一样。

She signed a paper for $10,000, $20,000, $30,000-- six checks for a total of $125,000.

她签署了一张 10,000 美元、20,000 美元、30,000 美元的文件——六张支票，总计 125,000 美元。

This is not a happy gambling story, so you know what happens next.

这不是一个快乐的赌博故事，所以你知道接下来会发生什么。

She can't pay back the money, any of it.

她无法偿还这笔钱，任何一笔钱。

So the casino takes her to court, says Angie Bachmann owes us $125,000.

于是赌场将她告上法庭，称安吉·巴赫曼欠了125,000美元。

And not only that, we're suing her for damages tripling that amount, half a million dollars in all.

不仅如此，我们还起诉她，要求赔偿三倍的损失，总计五十万美元。

This isn't unusual, that casinos go after debtors like Bachmann in court.

赌场在法庭上追捕像巴赫曼这样的债务人，这并不罕见。

What is somewhat unusual is what happened next.

接下来发生的事情有些不寻常。

Bachmann hired a lawyer named Terry Noffsinger, who argued that not only did she not owe the casino money, but they owed her money.

巴赫曼聘请了一位名叫特里·诺夫辛格（Terry Noffsinger）的律师，律师辩称她不仅不欠赌场钱，而且赌场还欠她钱。

I put to Noffsinger the question you might be having at this very moment.

我向诺夫辛格提出了您此刻可能会有的问题。

Wait, what?

等等，什么？

Why is she not liable?

为什么她不承担责任？

It seems like, if you go to a casino, that's, like, you know what you're doing.

看起来，如果你去赌场，你就知道自己在做什么。

Like, what's your best one-sentence argument for why it is that you believe she shouldn't be held responsible?

比如，你最好的一句话论证为什么你认为她不应该承担责任？

Because, at the time of those losses, she has passed the point of no return to where she has no control over what she's doing, comma, and the casinos know it and take advantage of it.

因为，在遭受这些损失时，她已经无法回头，无法控制自己正在做的事情，逗号，而赌场知道这一点并利用它。

They knew she was a compulsive gambler.

他们知道她是一个赌徒。

They knew she didn't have control.

他们知道她无法控制。

Now, here's the difficult thing.

现在，困难的事情来了。

A lot of people wouldn't believe me, you know?

很多人不相信我，你知道吗？

I've even had friends of mine who it took a while to convince them that I was really telling the truth, that this was really what was happening.

我什至有一些朋友花了一段时间才说服他们我说的是实话，这确实是正在发生的事情。

I heard about this case from New York Times reporter, Charles Duhigg.

我从《纽约时报》记者查尔斯·杜希格那里听说了这个案子。

It's in his new book, called The Power of Habit, which is about how habits form in our brains, and also about how companies tap into those habits to get us to spend money, in Bachmann's case, money she didn't have.

这是在他的新书《习惯的力量》中，这本书讲述了习惯如何在我们的大脑中形成，以及公司如何利用这些习惯让我们花钱，在巴赫曼的例子中，她没有钱。

Duhigg also calls her Angie Bachmann in his book, by the way.

顺便说一句，杜希格在他的书中也称她为安吉·巴赫曼。

Bachmann's lawsuit made news, and some of the reaction was backlash.

巴赫曼的诉讼成为新闻，一些人的反应是强烈反对。

Nasty online comments lamented the ever increasing abrogation of personal responsibility.

网上的恶毒评论对越来越多地放弃个人责任表示遗憾。

One person wrote, "What's next?

一位网友写道：“接下来怎么办？

Suing supermarkets because you eat too much?" And another, "Not unless Lamborghini pays my speeding tickets." And another, "Can I sue Budweiser for getting me drunk?"

因为吃太多而起诉超市？”还有一个，“除非兰博基尼支付我的超速罚单。”还有一个，“我可以起诉百威啤酒让我喝醉吗？”

I have to say, the case initially struck me as flimsy too.

我不得不说，这个案子一开始也让我觉得站不住脚。

And when Noffsinger first heard about gambling addiction, he didn't buy it either.

当诺夫辛格第一次听说赌博成瘾时，他也不相信。

Years earlier, he had gotten a call from a guy named David Williams.

几年前，他接到一个名叫大卫·威廉姆斯的人打来的电话。

Williams had lost everything, including his house, playing slots on a local riverboat casino.

威廉姆斯在当地河船赌场玩老虎机时失去了一切，包括他的房子。

He told Noffsinger he'd run red lights driving to the riverboat so he could be there the second the casino opened, that he'd sit at the same slot machine for 20 hours straight.

他告诉诺夫辛格，他会闯红灯开车去河船，这样赌场一开门他就可以到那里，他会连续 20 个小时坐在同一台老虎机前。

With regard to David Williams, when he came in, he told me the story, and I was incredulous.

至于大卫·威廉姆斯，当他进来时，他告诉了我这个故事，我感到难以置信。

So I went down to the office that Saturday, I told you, and I read about compulsive gambling.

我告诉过你，那个星期六我去了办公室，我读到了有关赌博成瘾的文章。

I read DSM IV, and I read some of the other scientific literature that was online.

我阅读了《DSM IV》，还阅读了一些在线的其他科学文献。

And I thought, this guy, I think he's telling the truth.

我想，这个人，我认为他说的是实话。

And everything I learned from then on confirmed to me that David Williams was telling the truth.

从那时起我学到的一切都证实了大卫·威廉姆斯说的是实话。

And it seemed clear to me that the casino had to know that he was a compulsive gambler and that he was one of their favorites.

我很清楚，赌场必须知道他是一个强迫性赌徒，而且他是他们最喜欢的人之一。

And they would put him up at night in the fancy suites and give him drinks, and meals, and all these things.

晚上他们会把他安置在豪华套房里，给他饮料、饭菜和所有这些东西。

So I felt like they were taking advantage of him.

所以我觉得他们在利用他。

And I thought the evidence supported that, and we filed a lawsuit.

我认为证据支持这一点，我们提起了诉讼。

The lawsuit didn't work.

诉讼没有成功。

It was rejected in federal court.

它被联邦法院驳回。

But afterwards, Noffsinger started to get phone calls, from Arizona, Southern California, Seattle, Mississippi, Massachusetts, all gamblers with similar stories.

但随后，诺夫辛格开始接到来自亚利桑那州、南加州、西雅图、密西西比州、马萨诸塞州的电话，所有赌徒都有类似的故事。

After a while, he started keeping track.

过了一会儿，他开始跟踪。

He's got a list now with about 40 names on it.

他现在有一份名单，上面有大约 40 个名字。

He told every one of these callers the same thing, I believe you, but I can't help you-- until Bachmann.

他对每一个来电者都说了同样的话，我相信你，但我帮不了你——直到巴赫曼。

Since she was already being sued by the casino, he thought maybe his counterargument could get traction in the courts this time.

由于她已经被赌场起诉，他认为这次他的反驳可能会在法庭上得到重视。

He hoped to make visible the very thing he believes the rest of us don't see or understand, the lengths to which casinos go to keep gamblers playing, including addicted gamblers.

他希望让人们看到他认为我们其他人看不到或不理解的事情，即赌场为了让赌徒（包括赌瘾上瘾的人）不遗余力地玩下去。

His argument boiled down to this.

他的论点归结为这一点。

Caesars had a duty not to protect Mrs. Bachmann from herself, from her own gambling habits, but to protect Mrs. Bachmann from itself, from Caesars.

凯撒有责任保护巴赫曼夫人免受其自身、其赌博习惯的侵害，而是保护巴赫曼夫人免受其自身、凯撒的侵害。

When her gambling started, Bachmann was a housewife in Iowa, the mother of three girls.

当巴赫曼开始赌博时，她是爱荷华州的一名家庭主妇，也是三个女孩的母亲。

She started playing blackjack-- at first, pretty small amounts, just once a week or so.

她开始玩二十一点——一开始玩的量很少，大约每周一次。

Soon enough, she was hooked, doing all the typical things addicted gamblers do-- chasing losses, borrowing money from her mother to pay her debts.

很快，她就上瘾了，做了所有上瘾赌徒会做的典型事情——追逐损失，向母亲借钱还债。

Then, at the very end of 2001, she filed for bankruptcy.

然后，在2001年底，她申请破产。

She says she'd written $20,000 worth of checks to the Harrah's Casino in Council Bluffs, and the checks had bounced.

她说，她曾向康瑟尔布拉夫斯的哈拉赌场 (Harrah's Casino) 开出了价值 20,000 美元的支票，但支票被退回了。

Bachmann says Harrah's knew about the bankruptcy, that even the dealers there knew about the bankruptcy.

巴赫曼说，哈拉斯知道破产的事，甚至连那里的经销商也知道破产的事。

She remembers having conversations with them about her bankruptcy.

她记得与他们谈论过她的破产事宜。

Nevertheless, the casino welcomed her back.

尽管如此，赌场还是欢迎她回来。

What they told me at that point was, it's fine that you continue to come in.

他们当时告诉我的是，你继续进来就好。

It's fine that you play.

你玩玩就好了。

Just, you know that you can't write a check here.

只是，你知道你不能在这里写支票。

We won't allow you to write checks, but, you know, go ahead and continue to come back.

我们不会允许你写支票，但是，你知道，继续回来吧。

Just bring cash.

只要带现金就可以了。

Just bring cash.

只要带现金就可以了。

So--

所以——

So she did.

所以她做到了。

Then, in 2004, both her parents died, and Bachmann inherited close to $1 million.

2004 年，她的父母双双去世，巴赫曼继承了近 100 万美元。

She says the staff at Harrah's in Council Bluffs figured out she'd come into money, after she stopped in there one day and a host took notice of the amounts she was playing.

她说，有一天她来到康瑟尔布拉夫斯 (Council Bluffs) 哈拉赌场 (Harrah's)，一位主持人注意到她玩的金额后，工作人员发现她赚了钱。

He invited her into the players lounge, chatted her up.

他邀请她进入球员休息室，和她聊天。

What, did you win the lottery or something?

什么，你中了彩票什么的吗？

What's going on in your life?

你的生活发生了什么事？

Bachmann says she more or less told him what had happened, and kept betting with larger amounts than in the past.

巴赫曼说，她或多或少告诉了他发生了什么事，并继续以比过去更大的金额下注。

After that, she says, vouchers, and coupons, and invitations started coming in the mail, with big offers.

她说，此后，优惠券、优惠券和邀请函开始通过邮件寄出，并提供大优惠。

She'd moved from Iowa to Tennessee by this point, so they offered her hotel rooms for as long as she wanted them, a week, two weeks.

此时她已经从爱荷华州搬到了田纳西州，所以他们可以为她提供酒店房间，只要她想要，一周，两周。

And gifts started coming too.

礼物也开始来了。

But Bachmann says her contact with Harrah's kicked into high gear after her biggest loss up to that point, which might sound counterintuitive.

但巴赫曼表示，在遭受迄今为止最大的损失后，她与 Harrah’s 的联系开始加速，这听起来可能有悖常理。

You or I might think, well, after a pummeling, that's the end of that customer.

你或我可能会想，好吧，经过一番打击之后，那个顾客就完蛋了。

But in the casino industry, the more you lose, the lovelier a prospect you become.

但在赌场行业，你输得越多，你的前景就越可爱。

So, after Bachmann lost a quarter of a million dollars in one night at the casino in Council Bluffs, the phone calls began.

因此，当巴赫曼在康瑟尔布拉夫斯的赌场一晚上输了 25 万美元后，电话就开始了。

It probably went from a couple of times a week to five times a week from various casino hosts throughout the country, really.

全国各地的赌场主办方可能会从每周几次增加到每周五次，真的。

I have been assigned to be your casino host here in Kansas City, and I was just calling.

我被指派为你们在堪萨斯城的赌场主持人，我刚刚打电话来。

I noticed that you haven't been in for a while--

我发现你已经有一段时间没来了——

Bachmann played me a few of these messages from her answering machine.

巴赫曼从她的答录机上给我播放了其中一些信息。

--and that you have a birthday coming up.

——而且你的生日即将到来。

So I was calling to invite you to come to Kansas City to celebrate your birthday.

所以我打电话邀请你来堪萨斯城庆祝你的生日。

If you need anything here at Harrah's, please give me a call.

如果您在 Harrah's 需要任何东西，请给我打电话。

And we want to wish you a happy birthday on the 27th.

我们祝您 27 日生日快乐。

These kinds of calls are standard, apparently.

显然，这些类型的调用是标准的。

Angie Bachmann always gambled at Harrah's Casinos.

安吉·巴赫曼 (Angie Bachmann) 总是在哈拉赌场 (Harrah's Casino) 赌博。

The company is now called Caesars Entertainment, since it bought out Caesars.

该公司现在被称为凯撒娱乐，因为它收购了凯撒娱乐公司。

It's the largest gaming company in the world.

它是世界上最大的游戏公司。

And Bachmann happened to start gambling at the same time that Harrah's began to overhaul its marketing strategies.

巴赫曼碰巧在哈拉斯开始彻底改革其营销策略的同时开始赌博。

Harrah's knew how to track each gambler's habits through Total Rewards cards that each gambler, including Bachmann, would use throughout the casino.

哈拉斯知道如何通过每位赌徒（包括巴赫曼）在整个赌场使用的总奖励卡来跟踪每个赌徒的习惯。

And that told the company exactly how much money each player spent on which games and at what frequency.

这可以准确地告诉公司每个玩家在哪些游戏上花费了多少钱以及以何种频率进行。

The company would then use that information to tell them exactly what kinds of perks and rewards would keep certain gamblers coming back, and at exactly what juncture to offer those perks and rewards.

然后，公司将利用这些信息准确地告诉他们什么样的福利和奖励可以让某些赌徒回来，以及在什么时候提供这些福利和奖励。

I couldn't find a Harrah's host to talk to me in detail about the job, but I did talk to one former casino host in Iowa.

我找不到哈拉斯的主持人来详细谈论这份工作，但我确实与爱荷华州的一位前赌场主持人交谈过。

He worked at the Isle of Capri riverboat for nine years.

他在卡普里岛河船上工作了九年。

He told me he was responsible for a list of about 800 to 1,000 players at any given time.

他告诉我，他在任何特定时间都负责一份大约 800 到 1,000 名球员的名单。

And around half of those, he knew personally.

其中大约一半是他亲自认识的。

Every day, he was supposed to call at least 25 people on his list.

每天，他应该给名单上至少 25 个人打电话。

For each player, the casino assigned a dollar figure, which was how much a player should theoretically make the casino during each visit.

赌场为每个玩家分配了一个美元数字，这是理论上玩家每次访问赌场时应该赚多少钱。

The host's job is to push up these numbers by getting players to visit the casino more often, and once there, to stay longer.

主持人的工作是通过让玩家更频繁地访问赌场并在到达后停留更长时间来推高这些数字。

These numbers drive everything, this host said, the comps that players get and the host's quarterly bonuses.

这位主持人说，这些数字决定一切，包括玩家获得的奖金和主持人的季度奖金。

So as Bachmann played more and her bets got bigger, so did her comps.

因此，随着巴赫曼玩得越来越多，她的赌注也越来越大，她的比赛也越来越大。

She talks about all the luxuries you've maybe seen in the movies-- first-class plane tickets or trips on charter planes, free meals, a five-bedroom suite at the Palazzo in Vegas for her, and her family, and her friends, with a hot tub off every bedroom, limos, free champagne, clothing, special golf trips for her husband.

她谈到了你可能在电影中看到的所有奢侈品——头等舱机票或包机旅行、免费膳食、为她、她的家人和她的朋友在维加斯帕拉佐提供的五卧室套房，每间卧室都配有热水浴缸、豪华轿车、免费香槟、衣服、为她丈夫提供的特别高尔夫之旅。

In Lake Tahoe, the casino gave her and her family front-row tickets to an Eagles concert, and also put them on the same hotel floor as the band.

在太浩湖，赌场为她和她的家人提供了老鹰乐队音乐会的前排门票，并将他们放在与乐队同一层的酒店楼层。

They gave her a room with a grand piano and a butler.

他们给了她一间配有三角钢琴和管家的房间。

Anything she asked for, she got.

她想要什么，她就得到什么。

They never said no. They never said no to anything.

他们从来没有说过不。他们从来没有对任何事说不。

No, in Lake Tahoe, they would tell me, go into the gift shop-- anything I wanted, including handbags, jewelry.

不，在太浩湖，他们会告诉我，去礼品店——我想要的任何东西，包括手提包、珠宝。

Like, real jewelry?

比如，真正的珠宝？

Are we talking, like, gems?

我们是在谈论宝石吗？

Yes, diamonds.

是的，钻石。

Usually, it would be something for my daughter, diamond earrings for her, or a diamond necklace for her.

通常，这会是给我女儿的东西，给她的钻石耳环，或者给她的钻石项链。

Bachmann says, at first, she was excited by the phone calls she got from hosts, these friendly people sending her off for free to all these places she'd never been.

巴赫曼说，一开始，她对主人打来的电话感到很兴奋，这些友好的人免费送她去所有她从未去过的地方。

Later, she says she came to dread the calls.

后来，她说她开始害怕接到电话。

Because towards the end, there were conversations when they would call that, well, you know, last month, we gave you a trip.

因为到最后，有一些对话，他们会说，嗯，你知道，上个月，我们给了你一次旅行。

We offered you the suite.

我们为您提供了套房。

We gave you a golf game.

我们为您提供了一场高尔夫比赛。

You didn't really play that much.

你确实没玩那么多。

She says, one time, when she was back home, despondent after a big loss, a casino host called her and persuaded her to return to the blackjack table, saying, you'll win it back.

她说，有一次，当她输了一大笔钱回到家，心情沮丧时，一位赌场老板打电话给她，劝她回到二十一点赌桌，说，你会赢回来的。

She didn't, and in fact ended up losing hundreds of thousands more.

她没有，事实上最终还损失了数十万。

Another call also stands out for her, from a host in Illinois.

另一个来自伊利诺伊州的主持人的电话对她来说也很引人注目。

And I said, you know, I really need to not be doing this as much as I'm doing.

我说，你知道，我真的不需要像现在这样做那么多事。

I really need to slow down.

我真的需要慢下来。

I'm losing way too much money.

我损失了太多钱。

And he said-- his exact words to me were, "My life depends on you coming up here this weekend." And I took that as his job depended on it, on getting me up there.

他对我说的原话是：“我的生活取决于你这个周末来这里。”我认为他的工作依赖于此，依赖于让我到达那里。

And I would feel guilty that I owed them more play.

我会因为欠他们更多的比赛而感到内疚。

I know it sounds insane.

我知道这听起来很疯狂。

It is insane.

这太疯狂了。

I mean, I was dealing with the guilt that I wasn't playing enough to repay them what they were giving me, and then the guilt of I shouldn't be doing this.

我的意思是，我当时正在承受一种愧疚，因为我没有打足够的比赛来回报他们给我的东西，然后我又因为我不应该这样做而感到内疚。

Sarah Koenig By early 2006, Bachmann says her nearly $1 million inheritance was gone.

莎拉·科尼格 (Sarah Koenig) 到 2006 年初，巴赫曼说她的近 100 万美元遗产已经化为乌有。

She'd spent a few hundred thousand buying a house, and the rest in just two years, poof, playing blackjack all over the country.

她花了几十万买了一套房子，短短两年就把剩下的钱花光了，噗，在全国各地玩二十一点。

Even so, in March of that year, she and her husband went out to Indiana.

即便如此，那年三月，她和丈夫还是去了印第安纳州。

She thinks she probably played what she describes as conservatively around $400 a hand.

她认为她保守地说她玩的牌可能是每手 400 美元左右。

They were drinking.

他们正在喝酒。

She says the drinks were strong.

她说饮料很烈。

Her husband went up to bed, but she gambled all night and into the next morning.

她的丈夫上床睡觉了，但她整晚都在赌博，直到第二天早上。

At some point, she signed the six counter checks for $125,000.

在某个时候，她签署了六张 125,000 美元的柜台支票。

This time, because she knew she didn't have the money, she was frantic.

这一次，她因为知道自己没有钱，所以慌了。

I was in a panic.

我很恐慌。

And I had talked to the host and said, I-- I-- I don't have it.

我和主持人谈过，我说，我——我——我没有。

I have to go home and figure it out.

我必须回家想办法。

They-- all right.

他们——好吧。

Then, you know, we'll-- they said-- they said, all right, do you want to go to the Kentucky Derby?

然后，你知道，我们会——他们说——他们说，好吧，你想去看肯塔基德比吗？

[LAUGHS]

[笑]

Wait, what?

等等，什么？

Angie Bachmann Yeah.

安吉·巴赫曼 是的。

Yeah.

是的。

If you get that money and then you pay us, then you can go to the Kentucky Derby.

如果你拿到这笔钱然后付给我们，那么你就可以去参加肯塔基赛马会了。

If this level of cheerful relentlessness sounds far-fetched, well, here's a voicemail from Caesars Indiana, the same Casino she owed $125,000 to.

如果这种令人愉快的无情程度听起来有些牵强，那么，这是来自印第安纳凯撒赌场的语音邮件，她欠这家赌场 125,000 美元。

It's from Bachmann's answering machine.

是巴赫曼的答录机打来的。

This is from Caesars Indiana.

这是来自印第安纳凯撒酒店的。

I just wanted to reach out and give you a quick call.

我只是想快速联系一下您。

We're a few weeks away from the Derby, and just wanted to confirm that you guys are still going to be joining us up here, and just set up any type of golf arrangements or anything like that.

我们距离德比还有几周时间，只是想确认你们仍然会加入我们这里，并安排任何类型的高尔夫安排或类似的事情。

The Kentucky Derby was in May.

肯塔基德比赛是在五月举行的。

Bachmann had been wiped out, remember, back in March.

请记住，早在三月份，巴赫曼就被消灭了。

Looking back at it all, she knows she did this to herself, that she's responsible.

回想起来，她知道这一切都是她自己做的，她有责任。

But Bachmann also thinks the casinos knew what she was doing better than she did, that they sat back and watched it happen.

但巴赫曼也认为赌场比她更了解她在做什么，他们袖手旁观，看着事情发生。

That's why she sued.

这就是她提起诉讼的原因。

Because of the terms of the settlement Bachmann and Caesars eventually worked out, the company wasn't at liberty to talk about the details of her case.

由于巴赫曼和凯撒最终达成的和解条款，该公司无法自由谈论她案件的细节。

In a statement, a spokesperson from Caesars Entertainment wrote, quote, "There are many specific points we would contest, but we are unable to do so at this point."

凯撒娱乐公司的发言人在一份声明中写道：“我们对许多具体问题提出异议，但目前我们无法这样做。”

The spokesperson pointed out that the conversations Bachmann said she had with casino employees, her dealings with staff, they're all unverified, which is true.

该发言人指出，巴赫曼所说的她与赌场员工的谈话、她与员工的交往都未经证实，这是事实。

But I did talk to several other people, former casino employees and one veteran gambler, who all said that most of the interactions Bachmann says she had with the casino are plausible and pretty typical.

但我确实和其他几个人谈过，包括前赌场员工和一位资深赌徒，他们都说巴赫曼所说的她与赌场的大部分互动都是合理的，而且非常典型。

The Caesars statement went on to say that their marketing isn't predatory, they're just doing what any smart company does.

凯撒的声明接着说，他们的营销不是掠夺性的，他们只是做了任何聪明公司都会做的事情。

Quote, "We look for ways to attract customers, and we make efforts to maintain them as loyal customers.

引用：“我们寻找吸引客户的方法，并努力保持他们作为忠实客户。

When our customers change their established patterns, we try to understand why and encourage them to return.

当我们的客户改变他们既定的模式时，我们会尽力理解原因并鼓励他们回来。

That's no different than a hotel chain, an airline, or a dry cleaner," unquote.

这与连锁酒店、航空公司或干洗店没有什么不同，”引述道。

Gary Loveman is the CEO and President of Caesars Entertainment.

加里·洛夫曼 (Gary Loveman) 是凯撒娱乐公司的首席执行官兼总裁。

Loveman was a Harvard professor who came to the company to design and implement the marketing strategies, targeting customers through the Total Rewards cards I mentioned earlier, which changed the industry.

洛夫曼是一位哈佛大学教授，他来到公司设计和实施营销策略，通过我之前提到的总奖励卡瞄准客户，这改变了整个行业。

Last fall, Loveman talked to our colleagues at Planet Money for a different story about marketing, but he also addressed this problem of addicted gamblers.

去年秋天，洛夫曼与我们在 Planet Money 的同事谈论了一个关于营销的不同故事，但他也谈到了赌徒上瘾的问题。

He was categorical.

他很斩钉截铁。

He said the company does not want them as customers.

他说公司不希望他们成为客户。

We do not wish to be in the business of serving addicted gamblers.

我们不想从事为赌徒上瘾的服务。

I have 75,000 people that work with me who go home to their families and kids like I do.

我有 75,000 名与我一起工作的人，他们像我一样回家与家人和孩子团聚。

None of them want to go home thinking that they've just helped an addicted gambler do further harm to themselves or their families.

他们中没有人愿意回家后认为自己刚刚帮助了一个赌瘾成瘾的人，对自己或家人造成了进一步的伤害。

So our objective is to try to identify addicted gamblers as best we can and encourage them to seek treatment and help, and to the degree they're willing to identify themselves as addicted or troubled gamblers, not serve them in any fashion, not market to them, not lend them money, and where the law allows, not permit them in the casino.

因此，我们的目标是尽力识别成瘾的赌徒，并鼓励他们寻求治疗和帮助，并在他们愿意将自己视为成瘾或陷入困境的赌徒的程度上，不以任何方式为他们提供服务，不向他们推销，不借钱给他们，并且在法律允许的情况下，不允许他们进入赌场。

Well, maybe.

嗯，也许吧。

This is Kristian Kunder.

这是克里斯蒂安·昆德。

For about six years, he worked at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas, both before and after it was taken over by Harrah's.

他在拉斯维加斯的凯撒宫酒店工作了大约六年，在该酒店被 Harrah's 接管之前和之后都是如此。

Did you ever serve gamblers that you knew personally, like, you knew or suspected that they were addicted?

您是否曾经为您认识的赌徒提供服务，例如您知道或怀疑他们上瘾？

Yes.

是的。

There's a lot of people that come through who are obvious, obvious-- I've seen players gambling, and I go home, come to work the next night, they're still there in their same clothes, in the same seat.

有很多人都是显而易见的——我见过玩家赌博，然后我回家，第二天晚上来上班，他们仍然穿着同样的衣服，坐在同一个座位上。

Absolutely not.

绝对不是。

Sarah Koenig Kunder's title was assistant casino manager, what's more commonly known in casinos as a pit boss.

莎拉·科尼格·昆德 (Sarah Koenig Kunder) 的头衔是赌场助理经理，在赌场中更常见的是赌场老板 (pit boss)。

At Caesars, he typically worked the high limit room.

在凯撒，他通常在高限额房间工作。

Depending on the night, he was in charge of anywhere from 30 to 100 dealers.

根据当晚的情况，他负责管理 30 到 100 名经销商。

I asked him about Loveman's quote.

我向他询问了洛夫曼的名言。

So, when he says, "We do everything we can to identify-- our objective is to try to identify addicted gamblers as best we can and encourage them to seek treatment and help," that's not true?

因此，当他说“我们会尽一切努力来识别——我们的目标是尽最大努力识别成瘾的赌徒，并鼓励他们寻求治疗和帮助”，这不是真的吗？

Not one bit.

一点也没有。

Not the slightest part.

一点也没有。

In no way.

无论如何。

The only time they'll approach a player is if they're suicidal or something like that.

只有当玩家有自杀倾向或类似情况时，他们才会接近他们。

Kunder says the way it was supposed to work was that a designated person, called a casino ambassador, would respond to any gambler showing a potential sign of addiction.

昆德说，它的运作方式应该是由一个被称为赌场大使的指定人员对任何表现出潜在上瘾迹象的赌徒做出回应。

So if a dealer or a floor person heard someone say, how am I going to feed my kids, or, I just lost my house, they were supposed to call over the ambassador, who would then give the player some addiction literature.

因此，如果经销商或场内人员听到有人说，我要如何养活我的孩子，或者，我刚刚失去了我的房子，他们应该打电话给大使，然后大使会给玩家一些成瘾文学。

Kunder remembers a pamphlet called "When the Fun Stops," and a phone number to call.

昆德记得一本名为《当乐趣停止时》的小册子，以及一个可以拨打的电话号码。

But in practice, Kunder says, it didn't happen.

但实际上，昆德说，这并没有发生。

The only exception, he said, was, if someone was suicidal.

他说，唯一的例外是，如果有人有自杀倾向。

Until they come to us, you can come in every day and there's really-- I could go to my VP and say, listen, this guy's a degenerate.

在他们来找我们之前，你每天都可以进来，我可以去找我的副总裁说，听着，这家伙是个堕落者。

I know he's got a problem.

我知道他有问题。

It's not for us to get involved in.

这不是我们可以参与的。

What if the guy doesn't have a problem and you're assuming, and he just has a ton of money?

如果你假设这个人没有问题，而且他有很多钱怎么办？

You're not going to go and insult somebody like that.

你不会去侮辱这样的人。

Those are people who, a lot of those guys, can have you fired that next morning.

这些人，很多这样的人，可以让你在第二天早上被解雇。

So, I mean, nobody's going to take that chance.

所以，我的意思是，没有人会抓住这个机会。

But anyway, there's no guarantee that a word of concern would make any difference.

但无论如何，并不能保证一句关心的话会产生任何影响。

The former host at the Isle of Capri in Iowa told me things work differently at his casino.

爱荷华州卡普里岛的前主人告诉我，他的赌场的运作方式有所不同。

A handful of times, he did try, gently, to help addicts, to talk to them about it.

有几次，他确实尝试温和地帮助瘾君子，与他们谈论这件事。

Each time, he said, it was received very badly.

他说，每次都受到非常糟糕的反响。

Imagine, he said, going up to a drunk in a bar and suggesting he ought to get himself to an AA meeting.

想象一下，他说，在酒吧里走到一个醉汉面前，建议他去参加一个 AA 会议。

It's not going to go over well.

事情不会顺利进行。

Still, in Kristian Kunder's mind, there's one case that shows how flagrantly the casino ignores the policy that Loveman claims to live by.

尽管如此，在克里斯蒂安·昆德看来，有一个案例表明赌场是如何公然无视洛夫曼声称遵守的政策。

In 2007, Kunder witnessed the most spectacular losing streak on record, the case of Omaha businessman Terance Watanabe.

2007年，昆德目睹了有记录以来最壮观的连败，即奥马哈商人特伦斯·渡边的案件。

Watanabe lost about $200 million in a year-long binge.

渡边在长达一年的狂欢中损失了约 2 亿美元。

Until he collapsed into debt, he was the company's most valuable player.

在他陷入债务危机之前，他一直是公司最有价值的球员。

Kunder says a picture of Watanabe hung in the serving area of the bar, to make sure every employee knew who he was.

昆德说，酒吧的服务区挂着一张渡边的照片，以确保每个员工都知道他是谁。

Kunder was one of Watanabe's handlers at Caesar's.

昆德是渡边在凯撒饭店的经纪人之一。

Nevada Gaming states that you have to be sober to gamble.

内华达博彩公司规定，赌博必须保持清醒。

You can't be intoxicated.

你不能喝醉。

It's the casino's responsibility to escort you out if you're impaired in any way.

如果您有任何障碍，赌场有责任护送您离开。

Well, I mean, the guy would fall asleep in the middle of a blackjack hand, and we would just leave him to sit there and wait for him to wake up.

嗯，我的意思是，这家伙会在二十一点牌局中睡着，我们就让他坐在那里等他醒来。

The fact that we let him play while he was completely intoxicated and obviously on drugs-- I mean, that's just-- I mean, that's just plain taking advantage of people.

事实上，我们让他在他完全喝醉并且显然吸毒的情况下打球——我的意思是，那只是——我的意思是，这只是纯粹的利用人。

And, you know, I'm one of the guilty parties, but, you know, my hands were tied as well, as far, you know, you're not going to tell the most valuable-- the biggest player in the company, say, hey, listen, you know, why don't you call it a night?

而且，你知道，我是有罪的一方之一，但是，你知道，我的手也被绑住了，到目前为止，你知道，你不会告诉公司中最有价值的——最大的参与者，说，嘿，听着，你知道，你为什么不今晚就到此为止呢？

I ran all this by Caesars Entertainment, the supposed difference between their policy on paper and what actually happens on the casino floor, the Watanabe case.

我通过凯撒娱乐公司报道了这一切，他们的纸面政策与赌场大厅实际发生的情况（渡边案）之间的假定差异。

In response, a spokesman wrote to me that diagnosing problem gambling is extremely difficult, even for trained clinicians, and that, quote, "we take responsible gaming seriously, and train our customer-facing employees to listen to things that customers say that raise concerns about their ability to gamble responsibly," unquote.

作为回应，一位发言人写信给我，即使对于训练有素的临床医生来说，诊断赌博问题也极其困难，并且引述说，“我们认真对待负责任的赌博，并培训我们面向客户的员工倾听客户所说的那些引起他们对其负责任赌博能力的担忧的事情，”未引述。

The company also noted that Caesars was the first to have a national self-exclusion program that allows customers to ban themselves from Caesars casinos.

该公司还指出，凯撒是第一个制定全国自我排除计划的公司，该计划允许客户禁止自己进入凯撒赌场。

And it's true, Bachmann did not ban herself from any Casino.

确实，巴赫曼并没有禁止自己进入任何赌场。

If you're not sold by now on the idea that the casino is partly to blame for Bachmann's losses, that Caesars wronged Bachmann, in the lawsuit's words, quote, "by enticing her to gamble even though it knew that she did not have the capabilities to resist such enticements," unquote, maybe two researchers at Southern Illinois University, Reza Habib and Mark Dixon, can at least persuade you that Bachmann made irrational choices about gambling not because she's an idiot, but because neurons in the reward-seeking part of her brain were overriding her rational decision making.

如果你现在还没有相信赌场对巴赫曼的损失负有部分责任，凯撒集团冤枉了巴赫曼，用诉讼的话来说，引用，“引诱她赌博，尽管它知道她没有能力抵制这种诱惑”，不引述，也许南伊利诺伊大学的两位研究人员雷扎·哈比卜和马克·迪克森至少可以说服你巴赫曼在赌博方面做出了非理性的选择因为她是个白痴，但因为她大脑中寻求奖励部分的神经元凌驾于她的理性决策之上。

Reza Habib is a neuroscientist, and so, of course, does not like to anthropomorphize the brain, but I don't mind saying it.

雷扎·哈比卜是一位神经科学家，所以当然不喜欢将大脑拟人化，但我不介意这么说。

Her wiring had turned against her.

她的线路已经对她不利了。

Habib's colleague, Mark Dixon, is a behavioral psychologist.

哈比卜的同事马克·迪克森是一位行为心理学家。

His lab at Southern Illinois is set up like a casino.

他在伊利诺伊州南部的实验室布置得像赌场一样。

He's got slots, a roulette table, a blackjack table, a craps table.

他有老虎机、轮盘赌桌、二十一点桌、双骰子桌。

It looks like a Casino.

它看起来像一个赌场。

Sarah Koenig Really?

莎拉·柯尼格 真的吗？

Maybe not a five-star casino, but maybe a two-star casino on the interstate somewhere.

也许不是五星级赌场，但可能是州际公路上某处的二星级赌场。

Habib, and especially Dixon, have spent a long time studying what's called the near-miss effect.

哈比卜，尤其是迪克森，花了很长时间研究所谓的“未遂效应”。

In slot machines, a near miss is just what it sounds like.

在老虎机中，顾名思义，险些脱险。

It's when, say, two cherries line up on the payoff line, and then the third is about to come, but stops just short or just past the payoff line.

比如说，两颗樱桃在支付线上排成一排，然后第三颗樱桃即将到来，但停在了不久或刚过支付线的地方。

It's like you almost won, which, of course, in a game of chance like slots, is impossible.

这就像你几乎赢了一样，当然，在像老虎机这样的机会游戏中，这是不可能的。

The results are random.

结果是随机的。

Despite that, gamblers in Dixon's lab will inevitably say that the near misses are closer to a win than a loss, that they like them more than a loss.

尽管如此，迪克森实验室的赌徒们不可避免地会说，险些失手更接近于胜利而不是失败，他们更喜欢它们而不是失败。

That reaction is what Dixon calls maladaptive.

这种反应就是迪克森所说的适应不良。

In 2006, Dixon teamed up with Habib to see if they could figure out what was happening to people neurologically when they saw near misses.

2006年，迪克森与哈比卜合作，看看他们是否能弄清楚人们在看到险情时神经学上发生了什么。

They scanned the brains of 22 gamblers-- 11 addicted, or what they called pathological gamblers, and 11 non-pathological gamblers-- as all these people watched near misses on slot machine displays.

他们扫描了 22 名赌徒的大脑，其中 11 名是上瘾的赌徒，即所谓的病态赌徒，11 名是非病态赌徒，所有这些人都在老虎机显示屏上观看了险些发生的事情。

The results surprised them because, while both addicted and non-addicted gamblers said the near misses felt more like wins, their brains said something different.

结果让他们感到惊讶，因为虽然上瘾的赌徒和不上瘾的赌徒都表示，侥幸逃脱的感觉更像是胜利，但他们的大脑却表达了不同的想法。

Here's Reza Habib.

这是礼萨·哈比卜。

What you see in the non-pathological gamblers is that the regions that are activated for losses, those same regions tend to be also activated for near misses.

你在非病态赌徒身上看到的是，那些因输钱而被激活的区域，这些相同的区域往往也会因未遂事件而被激活。

And so the brain, at least, processes these near misses in the same way that it processes losses in the non-pathological gamblers.

因此，大脑至少会以与非病态赌徒处理损失相同的方式处理这些未遂事件。

In pathological gamblers, the same regions that are activated for wins are also activated for near misses.

在病态赌徒中，获胜时被激活的相同区域也会因未遂事件而被激活。

And so these include regions such as the amygdala, which is a region involved in emotional processing, as well as parts of the brain stem, which are involved in reward and dopamine function, which is part of the reward system.

因此，这些区域包括杏仁核（参与情绪处理的区域）等区域，以及脑干的部分区域（参与奖励和多巴胺功能，这是奖励系统的一部分）。

So the pathological gamblers are seeing-- or their brains, at least, are responding to these near misses in the same way that they respond to wins.

因此，病态赌徒所看到的——或者至少他们的大脑对这些险些失手的反应就像他们对胜利的反应一样。

This is Mark again.

这又是马克。

And one of the effects of this, or the implications of these data, are that a pathological gambler going into the casino, who's actually losing, his brain is firing like he's winning.

这一效应或这些数据的含义之一是，一个病态的赌徒走进赌场，实际上他输了，他的大脑却像赢了一样兴奋。

Disturbing, isn't it?

令人不安，不是吗？

Yeah, it's crazy.

是的，这太疯狂了。

Mark Dixon Oh, it's way crazy.

马克·迪克森 哦，这太疯狂了。

And so you are experiencing those same sensations as a win when you're not winning.

因此，当你没有获胜时，你也会体验到与胜利相同的感觉。

Habib and Dixon say the casinos know all about the near-miss effect.

哈比卜和迪克森表示，赌场对“未遂效应”了如指掌。

And since the '80s, slot machines have been programmed to capitalize on it.

自 80 年代以来，老虎机已被编程来利用它。

Habib and Dixon said that the near-miss effect happens in all kinds of gambling, including blackjack, and that it's possible that even just an enticing phone call from a casino host could have fired up Angie Bachmann's maladaptive brain pathways, that her brain could have been reacting to the phone calls as it would to a near miss, especially if the message was, come win your money back.

哈比卜和迪克森说，险些发生的效应发生在包括二十一点在内的所有类型的赌博中，而且即使只是赌场主持人打来的诱人电话也有可能激发安吉·巴赫曼适应不良的大脑通路，她的大脑可能会对电话做出反应，就像对险些发生的事情一样，特别是如果信息是“来赢回你的钱”。

So let's say for a second that Angie Bachmann's case went to trial, and the questions before the jury were, if the casino knew she was addicted, is Caesars really the one responsible?

那么，让我们假设一下，安吉·巴赫曼（Angie Bachmann）的案件正在审理中，陪审团面临的问题是，如果赌场知道她上瘾，凯撒真的应该对此负责吗？

And was Bachmann, as her lawyer contends, quote, "incompetent" in terms of this act of borrowing money?

正如她的律师所言，巴赫曼在这种借钱行为方面“无能”吗？

You know, whether or not she's completely controlled by or has control over her own behavior, I think, is open to debate.

你知道，我认为她是否完全被自己的行为所控制或能够控制，这是有争议的。

It depends, I guess, on your world view of if you believe in free will and choice, or if you believe that people's behavior is under environmental control.

我想，这取决于你的世界观，即你是否相信自由意志和选择，或者你是否相信人们的行为受到环境控制。

Well, what do you believe?

嗯，你相信什么？

Mark Dixon Well, as a behavioral psychologist, I would tend to believe the latter.

马克·迪克森：作为一名行为心理学家，我倾向于相信后者。

OK, so, if you're on the jury-- forget me on the jury-- say you're on the jury, how would you decide?

好吧，那么，如果你是陪审团成员——别忘了我是陪审团成员——假设你是陪审团成员，你会如何决定？

Well, I think I would probably need to look at the case more.

嗯，我想我可能需要更多地研究这个案例。

What happened earlier on that led her into this mess that she found satisfaction from gambling away her life savings?

之前到底发生了什么，让她陷入了把毕生积蓄赌光为满足的困境？

Yeah, yeah.

是啊是啊。

But as a juror, we don't care about any of that.

但作为陪审员，我们并不关心这些。

It's just the crime on the table.

这只是摆在桌面上的犯罪行为。

Well, this juror does.

嗯，这位陪审员确实如此。

Sarah Koenig You don't have the luxury of getting into her psychology that way as a juror.

莎拉·科尼格（Sarah Koenig）：作为陪审员，你没有机会以这种方式了解她的心理。

You're just sitting there.

你只是坐在那里。

OK, well, right.

好吧，好吧，对。

OK, well, I guess, if you're going to push me on this--

好吧，我想，如果你要逼我这么做——

I am going to push you.

我要推你了。

Mark Dixon --I would say that the casinos should not be held accountable.

马克·迪克森——我想说赌场不应该承担责任。

Should not be held accountable, because I think they only played a participating factor in a complex life.

不应该追究责任，因为我认为他们只是在复杂的生活中扮演了一个参与因素。

Not guilty.

无罪。

Yeah, I would say not guilty as well.

是的，我也想说无罪。

She's guilty.

她有罪。

Pay it back.

还钱吧

Sarah Koenig Just pay it back?

Sarah Koenig 还钱吗？

That she's guilty?

说她有罪？

That's so interesting.

那太有趣了。

That's so interesting.

那太有趣了。

It's not what I would have guessed.

这不是我所猜测的。

You know, I mean, it's very difficult.

你知道，我的意思是，这非常困难。

Certainly, it's not moral.

当然，这不道德。

I mean, if we talked about it morally, was it right if they knew and they tempted her further?

我的意思是，如果我们从道德上谈论这件事，如果他们知道并进一步诱惑她，这是正确的吗？

Probably not.

可能不会。

Judge Terry Crone of the Indiana Court of Appeals agreed.

印第安纳州上诉法院法官特里·克龙对此表示同意。

Quote, "From a moral standpoint, Caesars' predation and prosecution of a pathological gambler is repugnant," he wrote.

他写道：“从道德角度来看，凯撒对病态赌徒的掠夺和起诉是令人反感的。”

But it was two against one, and Judge Crone was in the minority.

但双方是二对一，克龙法官属于少数派。

The majority ruled that Bachmann couldn't bring her counterclaim, because, quote, "there is no common law duty obliging a casino operator to refrain from attempting to entice or contact gamblers that it knows, or should know, are compulsive gamblers," unquote.

多数人裁定巴赫曼不能提出反诉，因为，引述说，“没有普通法义务要求赌场经营者不得试图引诱或联系其知道或应该知道是强迫性赌徒的赌徒”，未引述。

In other words, it's perfectly legal for Caesars to target an addicted gambler, like Angie Bachmann.

换句话说，凯撒以像安吉·巴赫曼这样的赌徒为目标是完全合法的。

It might be wrong, but it's legal.

这可能是错误的，但这是合法的。

Ira Glass Sarah Koenig is one of the producers of our program.

艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 莎拉·科尼格 (Sarah Koenig) 是我们节目的制作人之一。

Thanks to Charles Duhigg.

感谢查尔斯·杜希格。

His book, which is where we heard about this story, is for sale online in many, many places, including his own website, ThePowerOfHabit.com.

我们是在他的书里听说这个故事的，该书在很多很多地方都有售，包括他自己的网站 ThePowerOfHabit.com。

[MUSIC - "ALL I WANNA DO IS PLAY CARDS" BY CORB LUND]

[音乐 - “我想做的就是打牌”，作者：CORB LUND]

Well, our program was produced today by Lisa Pollack with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Sarah Koenig, Jonathan Menjivar, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alyssa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.

今天我们的节目由 Lisa Pollack 与 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Sarah Koenig、Jonathan Menjivar、Brian Reed、Robyn Semien、Alyssa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。

Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.

我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。

Seth Lind is our production manager, Emily Condon, our office manager.

Seth Lind 是我们的生产经理，Emily Condon 是我们的办公室经理。

Production help from Matt Kilty.

马特·基尔蒂 (Matt Kilty) 提供制作帮助。

Music help from Damien Graef and Rob Geddis.

Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddis 提供音乐帮助。

Special thanks today to Alexandra Berzon of the Wall Street Journal, to Katherine Gorman at WYPR, to Michelle Harris, and to Benjamin Anastas.

今天特别感谢《华尔街日报》的亚历山德拉·贝尔宗 (Alexandra Berzon)、WYPR 的凯瑟琳·戈尔曼 (Katherine Gorman)、米歇尔·哈里斯 (Michelle Harris) 和本杰明·阿纳斯塔斯 (Benjamin Anastas)。

This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.

《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。

WBEZ management oversight for our program by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia.

我们的老板 Torey Malatia 先生对我们的项目进行 WBEZ 管理监督。

You know, with the announcement this weekend that the Car Talk guys are retiring, Torey has been reminiscing about how he never figured out why, all these years, WBEZ and all the other public radio stations have to pay for the program in cash.

你知道，随着本周末 Car Talk 成员退休的消息，托里一直在回忆，他一直不明白为什么这些年来 WBEZ 和所有其他公共广播电台都必须用现金支付该节目的费用。

It's so weird, right?

太奇怪了，对吧？

When you call CarTalk Plaza, this is what the operator always tells you.

当您致电 CarTalk Plaza 时，接线员总是会这样告诉您。

You know that you can't write a check here.

你知道你不能在这里写支票。

We won't allow you to write checks.

我们不会允许你写支票。

Just bring cash.

只要带现金就可以了。

Just bring cash.

只要带现金就可以了。

I'm Ira Glass.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

Back next week with more stories of This American Life.

下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。

[MUSIC - "ALL I WANNA DO IS PLAY CARDS" BY CORB LUND]

[音乐 - “我想做的就是打牌”，作者：CORB LUND]

This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.

《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。