461: Take the Money and Run for Office - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #461 | March 30, 2012 461: Take the Money and Run for Office Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 461 集 | 2012 年 3 月 30 日 461：拿着钱竞选公职 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
序言 Ira Glass 来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这就是美国生活，由国际公共广播电台发行。
And today we have a big, big story of money and politics.
今天我们有一个关于金钱和政治的重大故事。
It begins with a humble voice now.
现在以谦卑的声音开始。
This is Eleanor Norton, Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton.
我是埃莉诺·诺顿，国会女议员埃莉诺·霍姆斯·诺顿。
I noticed that you have given to other colleagues on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.
我注意到您已经向交通和基础设施委员会的其他同事捐款。
I am a senior member, a 20-year veteran and--
我是一名资深会员，有 20 年的经验，而且——
This is voicemail that Eleanor Holmes Norton, the Democratic congresswoman from Washington DC, left for a lobbyist in the fall of 2010.
这是华盛顿特区民主党女议员埃莉诺·霍姆斯·诺顿 (Eleanor Holmes Norton) 于 2010 年秋天留给游说者的语音信箱。
We don't know who the lobbyist is, but from the voicemail we can infer that he represents a contractor who's working on the new Homeland Security complex being built in Washington DC-- a complex that Eleanor their Holmes Norton, at the time, had a lot of power over.
我们不知道游说者是谁，但从语音邮件中我们可以推断他代表一名承包商，正在华盛顿特区建造新的国土安全综合体——当时的埃莉诺·福尔摩斯·诺顿对该综合体拥有很大的权力。
I'm handling the largest economic development project in the United States now, the Homeland Security compound of three buildings being built on the old St. Elizabeth hospital site--
我现在正在处理美国最大的经济发展项目，在圣伊丽莎白医院旧址上建造由三栋建筑组成的国土安全部大院——
After pointing out that she is in charge of the project that he cares about, she gets to the point.
在指出她负责他关心的项目后，她进入正题。
I was, frankly, surprised to see that we don't have a record-- so far as I can tell-- of your having given to me, despite my long and deep work, essentially in your sector.
坦率地说，我很惊讶地发现，据我所知，我们没有任何记录表明您对我的贡献，尽管我在您的领域进行了长期而深入的工作。
I'm simply candidly calling to ask for a contribution.
我只是坦诚地打电话请求捐款。
I'm asking you to give to Citizens for Eleanor Holmes Norton, PO Box 70626, DC, 20024.
我请您将信息交给 Citizens for Eleanor Holmes Norton, PO Box 70626, DC, 20024。
This tape first surfaced on the Andrew Breitbart site, Big Government.
该录像带首先出现在安德鲁·布赖特巴特网站“大政府”上。
The source was the lobbyist, and redacted his own name from the beginning of the tape.
消息来源是游说者，并从录音带的开头删除了自己的名字。
Eleanor Holmes Norton verified that it was real.
埃莉诺·福尔摩斯·诺顿证实这是真的。
She declined to talk to us for this program.
她拒绝与我们谈论这个项目。
This voicemail of a US congresswoman sounding a lot like a telemarketer is a peek behind a curtain that usually we don't get a chance to peek behind.
美国国会女议员的语音邮件听起来很像电话推销员，这是我们通常没有机会窥视幕后的一瞥。
It's a part of our political process that we all know exists-- the money gathering part-- but we usually don't get a chance to witness.
我们都知道这是我们政治进程的一部分——筹集资金的部分——但我们通常没有机会亲眼目睹。
Politicians usually don't like reporters and film crews present when they ask for cash.
政客们通常不喜欢在索要现金时有记者和电影摄制组在场。
Most of them never want to talk about it with a reporter.
他们中的大多数人从来不想与记者谈论这件事。
But it is daily life for pretty much every member of Congress, their staffs, lobbyists.
但这是几乎每一位国会议员、他们的工作人员、游说者的日常生活。
Phone I calls like this are happening all day, every day.
像这样的电话每天都在发生。
There are phone banks, literally phone banks, in offices in Washington DC, where congresspeople are making calls like this one, leaving messages just like this one.
华盛顿特区的办公室里有电话银行，字面意思是电话银行，国会议员正在拨打这样的电话，留下这样的信息。
And don't just take it from me.
别只是从我这里夺走它。
Here is the second in command of the US Senate, Dick Durbin, Democrat from Illinois.
这是美国参议院第二把手、来自伊利诺伊州的民主党人迪克·德宾。
I think most Americans would be shocked-- not surprised, but shocked-- if they knew how much time a United States senator spends raising money.
我认为，如果大多数美国人知道美国参议员花了多少时间筹集资金，他们会感到震惊——不是惊讶，而是震惊。
And how much time we spend talking about raising money, and thinking about raising money, and planning to raise money.
我们花了多少时间谈论筹集资金、思考筹集资金以及计划筹集资金。
And, you know, going off on little retreats and conjuring up new ideas on how to raise money.
而且，你知道，进行一些小静修并想出如何筹集资金的新想法。
Well, today on our program, we will shock you.
好吧，今天在我们的节目中，我们会让你震惊。
Alex Blumberg, from our Planet Money team has joined forces with NPR's Congressional correspondent, Andrea Seabrook, to take us deep inside this world that is hidden in plain sight.
来自 Planet Money 团队的 Alex Blumberg 与 NPR 国会记者 Andrea Seabrook 联手，带我们深入了解这个隐藏在众目睽睽之下的世界。
The world of lobbyists and money and political fundraising.
游说者、金钱和政治筹款的世界。
A world that we all hear about all the time, but most of us never have seen up close.
这是一个我们一直都听说过的世界，但我们大多数人从未近距离见过。
They talk to the people who need the money, they talk to the people who give the money, and they try to figure out what exactly the money buys.
他们与需要钱的人交谈，与提供钱的人交谈，并试图弄清楚这些钱到底能买什么。
Also, there's this little Supreme Court case you may have heard about, Citizens United.
另外，您可能听说过最高法院的一个小案件：公民联合案。
We'll talk about that as well.
我们也会讨论这个。
And we bring the old band back together-- McCain and Feingold, here on the radio.
我们将老乐队——麦凯恩和法因戈尔德重新聚集在一起，在广播中。
Original cast, no substitutions.
原班人马，无替补。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, The Hamster Wheel.
第一幕，仓鼠轮。
Alex and Andrea start off our hour at the spots where the money actually changes hands.
亚历克斯和安德里亚从金钱实际易手的地方开始我们的时间。
The money changes hands in very specific places all over DC.
这笔钱在华盛顿特区各地非常特定的地方易手。
There are townhouses whose sole function is to be rented out as venues for this.
有些联排别墅的唯一功能就是出租作为举办活动的场所。
Dozens of restaurants do a booming business catering small parties in private rooms.
数十家餐厅在私人包间举办小型聚会，生意兴隆。
And if you have an idea in your head of what a political fundraiser is-- I know I did-- get it out.
如果你脑子里对什么是政治筹款活动有一个想法——我知道我有——那就把它说出来。
It is not that super fancy, black tie gala event you hear about, like the one Barack Obama went to with the $30,000 a plate dinner and Alicia keys performing.
这并不是您听说过的那种超级华丽的正式晚宴，就像巴拉克·奥巴马 (Barack Obama) 参加的那场晚宴，每盘价值 30,000 美元，艾丽西亚·凯斯 (Alicia Keys) 还表演。
It is not that at all.
根本不是那样的。
These are much more mundane.
这些都比较平凡。
Like this one here.
就像这里的这个。
Here's an invitation to one for Rep.
这是对众议员的邀请。
Tim Bishop.
蒂姆·毕肖普。
He's a Democrat from New York.
他是来自纽约的民主党人。
It's at a restaurant called Johnny's Half Shell.
地点是一家名为 Johnny's Half Shell 的餐厅。
Costs you between $500 and $2,500 to get in.
入场费用为 500 至 2,500 美元。
The time?
时间？
8:30 in the morning.
早上8点30分。
Breakfast.
早餐。
See?
看？
Not glamorous.
不迷人。
A lot of these fundraisers happen at breakfast.
很多筹款活动都在早餐时进行。
Or at lunch, like this one for a Republican candidate, Steve Daines of Montana.
或者在午餐时，就像共和党候选人、蒙大拿州的史蒂夫·戴恩斯 (Steve Daines) 吃的午餐一样。
It's at the offices of a big trade group in town.
它位于城里一个大型贸易集团的办公室里。
Maybe 15, 20 people munching appetizers in a conference room.
也许有 15、20 个人在会议室里咀嚼开胃菜。
A congressional watchdog group called the Sunlight Foundation collects these invitations to fundraisers and puts them online.
一个名为“阳光基金会”的国会监督组织收集这些筹款活动邀请并将其发布到网上。
Sifting through them, the same venues come up again and again.
经过筛选，相同的地点一次又一次出现。
Lunch at the Capitol Grille, dinner at Bullfeathers, cocktails at the Monocle, breakfast at Johnny's Half Shell.
在 Capitol Grille 享用午餐，在 Bullfeathers 享用晚餐，在 Monocle 享用鸡尾酒，在 Johnny's Half Shell 享用早餐。
Now, occasionally they do get fancy.
现在，他们偶尔也会变得很奇特。
You'll see fundraisers at golf clubs or hockey games, pheasant hunts-- yes, pheasant hunts-- or at live events.
您会在高尔夫俱乐部或曲棍球比赛、野鸡狩猎（是的，野鸡狩猎）或现场活动中看到筹款活动。
For example, this past week, for $1,000, you could join South Dakota Senator John Thune at a Van Halen concert.
例如，上周，只需花费 1,000 美元，您就可以与南达科他州参议员约翰·图恩 (John Thune) 一起观看范·海伦 (Van Halen) 音乐会。
Now all of these events just happened.
现在所有这些事件都刚刚发生。
Just in the last week actually.
实际上就在上周。
Our analysis with the Sunlight Foundation data shows that in peak fundraising months, there are at least 20 events a day.
我们对阳光基金会数据的分析显示，在筹款高峰月份，每天至少有20起活动。
One lawmaker told us, "You could spend every day of the year raising money."
一位立法者告诉我们，“你可以花一年中的每一天来筹集资金。”
I'm very proud of the fact that this year we've broken all records for our donor contributions to our fundraising efforts.
我感到非常自豪的是，今年我们打破了我们筹款活动的捐助者捐款的所有记录。
And that enabled us to outraise the Republicans this year.
这使我们今年能够超越共和党。
This is Nancy Pelosi, the top Democrat in the House.
这是南希·佩洛西，众议院民主党领袖。
She's also the Democratic Party's number one fundraiser.
她也是民主党筹款第一名的人。
Pelosi has raised hundreds of millions of dollars over the years.
佩洛西多年来已筹集了数亿美元。
Close to $40 million in this election alone.
仅在这次选举中就花费了近 4000 万美元。
How many fundraisers do you typically go to in a given week, do you think?
您认为您通常在一周内参加多少次筹款活动？
A lot.
很多。
Yeah.
是的。
Either on the phone or attending events.
要么打电话，要么参加活动。
But I think they've said this year I attended almost 400 fundraisers in nearly 40 cities.
但我想他们说过今年我参加了近 40 个城市的近 400 场筹款活动。
That's 400 for the year 2011.
2011 年为 400 人。
That's more than one a day, every day of the year, Saturdays and Sundays included.
每天不止一次，一年中的每一天，包括周六和周日。
Now we know from fundraising numbers and scheduled events that the leadership on the Republican side is working just as hard.
现在，我们从筹款数字和预定活动中得知，共和党方面的领导层也在努力工作。
We contacted all of them and no one would speak to us.
我们联系了他们所有人，但没有人愿意和我们说话。
Staff for the number two Republican in the house, Eric Cantor, said, quote, "We'll pass." House Speaker Boehner's staff said, quote, "It doesn't sound like a good use of time."
众议院第二号共和党人埃里克·坎托(Eric Cantor)的工作人员说，“我们会通过。”众议院议长博纳的幕僚表示，“这听起来并不是一个很好的时间利用方式。”
And there's one thing driving all this activity-- a gnawing, relentless, voracious need for cash.
推动所有这些活动的有一个因素——对现金的强烈、无情、贪婪的需求。
To understand that need, consider Walt Minnick.
要了解这种需求，请考虑沃尔特·明尼克。
Minnick is a conservative Democrat who represented a Republican-leaning district in Idaho.
明尼克是一位保守派民主党人，代表爱达荷州一个倾向共和党的选区。
He was first elected in 2008, and after he won, he took just five days off from fundraising.
他于 2008 年首次当选，获胜后只休息了五天的筹款时间。
Then, two months before he was sworn in as a congressman, he was back raising money for the next election, two years away.
然后，在他宣誓就任国会议员的两个月前，他又回来为两年后的下一次选举筹集资金。
I needed to raise $10,000 to $15,000 a day, and you only do it by elbow grease.
我每天需要筹集 10,000 美元到 15,000 美元，而你只能靠苦力来做到这一点。
Let's stop and dwell on that statement for a second, shall we, Andrea?
让我们停下来思考一下这句话，好吗，安德里亚？
$10,000 to $15,000 a day.
每天 10,000 美元到 15,000 美元。
The typical cost of a congressional race is about a million dollars-- although, if you're challenging an incumbent, you need more.
国会竞选的典型成本约为一百万美元——不过，如果你挑战现任议员，你就需要更多。
Minnick's goal was even more than that-- $2.5 million-- because he was in such a competitive district.
明尼克的目标甚至不止于此——250 万美元——因为他身处竞争如此激烈的地区。
I would spend two or three hours a day as a congressman trying to raise money.
作为国会议员，我每天会花两三个小时来筹集资金。
That's typical for a member of Congress, and most of those hours are spent across the street from the Capitol, in special offices set up by the parties specifically for this purpose.
这对于国会议员来说是典型的情况，大部分时间都花在国会大厦街对面的各政党专门为此目的设立的特别办公室里。
Special offices because federal law prohibits lawmakers from making fundraising calls from their own congressional offices.
特别办公室，因为联邦法律禁止立法者从自己的国会办公室发出筹款电话。
Neither party is eager to let reporters into these call centers, but we got a couple Democrats to describe what it's like in there.
两党都不愿意让记者进入这些呼叫中心，但我们有几位民主党人描述了那里的情况。
This is Oregon Congressman Peter DeFazio.
我是俄勒冈州国会议员彼得·德法齐奥。
If you walked in there, you would say, boy, this is about the worst looking, most abusive call center situation I've seen in my life.
如果你走进那里，你会说，孩子，这是我一生中见过的最糟糕、最辱骂的呼叫中心情况。
These people don't have any workspace.
这些人没有任何工作空间。
The other person is virtually touching them.
另一个人实际上正在触摸他们。
Just counters on the wall with telephones and people eight inches away from you, talking on the telephone.
墙上的柜台上只有电话，人们离你八英寸远，正在打电话。
We sit at these desks with stacks of names in front of us, and short bios, and histories of giving.
我们坐在这些办公桌前，面前摆着一堆名字、简短的简历和捐赠历史。
This is Senator Dick Durbin, who says that on the Senate side, they'll have these things called "power hours" several times a week, where a bunch of senators will go into the call center--
这是参议员迪克·德宾（Dick Durbin），他说在参议院方面，他们每周都会有几次所谓的“权力时间”，一群参议员会进入呼叫中心——
--and make these calls to people who are our faithful friends and ask them to give money or have a fundraiser.
——并向我们忠实的朋友拨打这些电话，要求他们捐款或举办筹款活动。
And then, if we're fortunate enough, we end up attending those fundraisers that we begged people to do for us.
然后，如果我们足够幸运，我们最终会参加那些我们恳求人们为我们做的筹款活动。
I mean, that is part of the conversation.
我的意思是，这是谈话的一部分。
And this goes on and on and on.
这种情况一直持续下去。
Where do the names come from?
这些名字从何而来？
How do you decide who to call?
您如何决定给谁打电话？
The names come from a history of giving.
这些名字来自捐赠的历史。
And many of them-- it's hard for most listeners to believe-- really aren't looking for much.
他们中的许多人——大多数听众都很难相信——实际上并没有寻求太多。
They want their team to win.
他们希望自己的球队获胜。
In this case, the Democratic team.
在这种情况下，民主党团队。
They don't ask for special favors.
他们不要求特殊的好处。
But there are exceptions.
但也有例外。
There are some who won't waste any time to tell you what they think is the most important issue in Washington as they talk about their donation.
有些人在谈论他们的捐赠时，不会浪费任何时间告诉你他们认为华盛顿最重要的问题是什么。
It is part of the reality of the life that I live.
这是我现实生活的一部分。
It's absolutely the most distasteful thing to do as a congressman, or a senator, or a candidate.
作为一名国会议员、参议员或候选人，这绝对是最令人厌恶的事情。
Again, Walt Minnick.
又是沃尔特·明尼克。
Walt Minnick You essentially wear out your friends and you wear out the people who are your natural supporters, because if someone writes you one check or comes to a fundraiser, they get on a list.
沃尔特·明尼克（Walt Minnick） 你基本上让你的朋友和你的天然支持者都疲惫不堪，因为如果有人给你写一张支票或参加筹款活动，他们就会被列入名单。
And three or four months later you call them back again.
三四个月后，你再次给他们回电话。
And the best thing about being an ex-congressman is my friends now return my phone calls.
作为一名前国会议员，最好的事情是我的朋友们现在给我回电话。
Your friends started dodging your calls?
你的朋友开始躲避你的电话？
They do what they can help.
他们尽其所能提供帮助。
They're your friends.
他们是你的朋友。
But after you've called them three or four times in an election cycle and they've been very generous, they think enough's enough.
但是，当你在一个选举周期中给他们打电话三四次并且他们非常慷慨之后，他们就认为够了。
And it is.
确实如此。
I agree with them.
我同意他们的观点。
And I hated to make those calls.
我讨厌打那些电话。
Now, there is an easier way to relieve some of that pressure and raise money faster.
现在，有一种更简单的方法可以减轻一些压力并更快地筹集资金。
A way that doesn't involve tapping out your friends.
一种不涉及打扰你的朋友的方式。
Just go to the people who already have big stacks of money set aside to give to politicians-- lobbyists.
只要去找那些已经留出大笔钱给政客的人——游说者。
A lobbyist can throw you a fundraiser.
说客可以为您举办筹款活动。
A lunch a Johnny's Half Shell or a cocktail reception at Bullfeathers.
在 Johnny's Half Shell 享用午餐或在 Bullfeathers 举办鸡尾酒会。
And so, every week, lawmakers and their staffs work the phones, trying to find lobbyists to organize these events.
因此，立法者及其工作人员每周都会打电话，试图找到说客来组织这些活动。
Jimmy Williams used to get those calls.
吉米·威廉姆斯曾经接到过这样的电话。
He was a lobbyist for the real estate industry for many years.
他多年来一直是房地产行业的说客。
A lot of them would call and say, "Hey, can you host an event for me?" And you never want to say no. Actually, no. You always want to say no. In fact, you always want to say no. But, you could look on your phone with these caller IDs and you would be like, really?
他们中的很多人会打电话说：“嘿，你能为我举办一个活动吗？”你永远不想说不。事实上，没有。你总是想说不。事实上，你总是想说不。但是，您可以在手机上查看这些来电显示，您会想，真的吗？
I'm not taking that call.
我不会接那个电话。
Oh, so you would dodge calls for fundraising?
哦，那么你会回避筹款的呼吁吗？
Oh yeah.
哦，是的。
Every lobbyist does.
每个说客都这样做。
Are you kidding?
你在开玩笑吧？
You spend most of your time dodging phone calls.
你大部分时间都在躲避电话。
Oh yeah.
哦，是的。
This was one of the most surprising things I learned about this whole process.
这是我在整个过程中了解到的最令人惊讶的事情之一。
The way most of us generally think about it is absolutely backwards.
我们大多数人普遍思考的方式绝对是倒退的。
We imagine the lobbyists stalking the halls of Congress, trying to influence members with cash.
我们想象游说者在国会大厅里潜行，试图用现金影响议员。
But more often than not, it's the reverse-- the member is stalking the lobbyists, saying, "Hey, can I have some of that money?"
但往往情况恰恰相反——会员跟踪游说者，说：“嘿，我能得到一些钱吗？”
And it's hard to say no, Jimmy says.
吉米说，很难拒绝。
Especially to a congressman whose work and votes he cared about.
尤其是对于一位他关心工作和选票的国会议员。
So, he'd say yes and then he'd have to round up a bunch of guests.
所以，他会答应，然后他就得召集一群客人。
That's why I call up my buddies down on K Street.
这就是为什么我打电话给我在 K 街的朋友们。
From my buddy over at the credit unions, or my buddy over at the insurance company, or my buddy over wherever-- at the home builders.
来自我在信用合作社的朋友，或者我在保险公司的朋友，或者我在任何地方的朋友——在房屋建筑商那里。
And I say, "Hey, dude.
我说：“嘿，伙计。
I'm going to do this event for this guy and he sits on the House Financial Services Committee.
我将为这个人举办这个活动，他是众议院金融服务委员会的成员。
And do you guys have any money for this person?
你们有钱给这个人吗？
Is he in your budget?" And the answer was usually, "Yeah, yeah, I got money for that guy." And so, all right.
他在你的预算之内吗？”答案通常是：“是的，是的，我为那个人赚到了钱。”所以，好吧。
So cool.
太酷了。
So we'll come up with a date and then we have this fundraiser.
因此，我们将确定一个日期，然后举行筹款活动。
And it's a breakfast or it's a lunch or it's a dinner or a cocktail reception.
这是早餐、午餐、晚餐或鸡尾酒会。
And everyone comes and they bring their checks or they mail their checks in.
每个人都会带着支票或邮寄支票来。
And then you have it.
然后你就拥有了。
We're talking thousands of dollars that the congressman will make in just an hour.
我们说的是国会议员在一小时内就能赚到数千美元。
And imagine what this is like for the lawmaker.
想象一下对于立法者来说这是什么样的。
For someone like Walt Minnick, who has to pull in $10,000 to $15,000 a day.
对于像沃尔特·明尼克这样每天必须收入 10,000 到 15,000 美元的人来说。
When his staff comes and says, "We've convinced this group of lobbyists to throw a fundraiser for you," it's a relief.
当他的工作人员走过来说：“我们已经说服这群游说者为你举办筹款活动”时，人们松了口气。
And my answer is, "Yes, I'll be happy to attend." And I get lots of those kinds of events, too.
我的回答是：“是的，我很乐意参加。”我也遇到过很多这样的事件。
I was on the egg committee, and every egg group in Washington that wanted to host one of those kinds of events, I would be pleased to go to.
我是鸡蛋委员会的成员，华盛顿的每个鸡蛋团体都想举办此类活动，我很乐意参加。
And if you walked away with $4,000 or $5,000 from that, that was, a half or a third of what you were supposed to raise that day.
如果你从中拿到 4,000 美元或 5,000 美元，那就是你当天应该筹集的资金的一半或三分之一。
And that was easy money.
那是很容易赚到的钱。
That was a lot fewer phone calls you had to make that afternoon, so.
那天下午你需要打的电话少了很多，所以。
We were curious, how exactly does the money change hands?
我们很好奇，钱到底是如何转手的？
Is it like handing the groom an envelope at a wedding reception?
这就像在婚宴上递给新郎一个信封吗？
Does someone collect it at the door when you walk in?
进去的时候有人在门口收吗？
Are you supposed to be discreet or overt?
你应该谨慎还是公开？
The answer is all of the above.
答案就是以上所有。
Some people pay with plastic.
有些人用塑料支付。
A lot of times, there's actually a space on the invitation to put your credit card number.
很多时候，邀请函上实际上有一个空格可以填写您的信用卡号码。
Sometimes, you'll tell a staffer, "Just put me down for this much," and then you send the money in later.
有时，你会告诉工作人员，“就这么让我失望吧”，然后你就把钱寄过去。
But some, like financial services industry lobbyist, Scott Talbott, prefer a more direct approach.
但有些人，比如金融服务业说客斯科特·塔尔博特(Scott Talbott)，更喜欢更直接的方法。
We have a policy that all checks have to be hand-delivered.
我们的政策是所有支票都必须亲自递交。
So we have to go up and eyeball the candidate and talk to them and deliver the check.
因此，我们必须上去观察候选人并与他们交谈并交付支票。
In rare instances, we can mail the check, but for the most part we want to be there as part of the delivery system.
在极少数情况下，我们可以邮寄支票，但在大多数情况下，我们希望作为交付系统的一部分。
So you bring it with you.
所以你随身携带它。
You have it in your pocket.
你把它放在口袋里。
And I have left it in my coat pocket many times.
我曾多次把它放在外套口袋里。
My wife has said, "What is this for, this envelope?" That has happened.
我妻子说：“这个信封是做什么用的？”那已经发生了。
But why is that better marshalling than just doing an electronic transfer?
但为什么这种编组比仅仅进行电子传输更好呢？
Well, because it is the ability to help the candidate who is receiving contributions from multiple sources remember you, the industry, et cetera, et cetera.
嗯，因为它能够帮助从多个来源获得贡献的候选人记住你、整个行业等等。
Wouldn't you remember if someone handed you a check, versus just got it in the mail?
您是否会记得是否有人递给您一张支票，而不是刚刚通过邮件收到的支票？
Talbot says, typically, there's the person who works for the member of Congress there, who's holding the checks.
塔尔博特说，通常是由为国会议员工作的人持有支票。
That person is called a "fundraiser."
这个人被称为“筹款人”。
Yup, the event is a fundraiser and that person is called a fundraiser.
是的，该活动是筹款活动，该人被称为筹款人。
Jimmy Williams picks it up with what happens next.
吉米·威廉姆斯接着讲述了接下来发生的事情。
You sit around and you have a conversation with the member who's seated at the head of the table or in the center of the table and everyone goes around and says, "I'm Jimmy Williams and I'm a lobbyist for the National Association of Realtors," or whatever it is.
你围坐在一起，与坐在桌子一头或桌子中间的成员交谈，每个人都围过来说：“我是吉米·威廉姆斯，我是全国房地产经纪人协会的说客”，或者其他什么。
And then you go and you say, "We care about keeping big, bad evil banks out of real estate and we care about protecting flood insurance, which is the flood insurance program, which is great for coastal communities."
然后你说：“我们关心的是让大型、邪恶的银行远离房地产，我们关心保护洪水保险，这就是洪水保险计划，这对沿海社区来说非常有用。”
But everybody does that, so the insurance guy, the lobbyist for the insurance industry, he does that.
但每个人都这样做，所以保险人、保险业的说客，他也这样做。
And the lobbyist for the accounting industry, she does that.
作为会计行业的说客，她就是这样做的。
By the way, the fundraiser is standing in the room.
顺便说一下，筹款人就站在房间里。
And the fundraiser has $35,000 in checks sitting in her pocket right now, in her pocketbook.
筹款活动中现在有 35,000 美元的支票放在她的口袋里，在她的钱包里。
Oh, and we're going to talk about public policy while we take the checks.
哦，我们将在接受支票的同时讨论公共政策。
Jimmy says that it's not like the check will buy a vote on a bill, or even an amendment.
吉米说，这张支票并不能购买对法案甚至修正案的投票权。
But to get in front of the lawmaker, to make your case at all, you need that check.
但要在立法者面前提出自己的主张，你需要进行检查。
People we talked to in this system said everyone understands the rules.
我们在这个系统中采访过的人说每个人都理解规则。
You're going to cut checks from your PAC, your political action committee, to get access to lawmakers.
你将削减政治行动委员会（PAC）的支票，以接触立法者。
But they tell us the rules are rarely explicit, although there are times, says Jimmy Williams.
但他们告诉我们，规则很少是明确的，尽管有时会如此，吉米·威廉姆斯说。
Like when he took a couple of clients to one Congressman's office.
就像他带几个客户去一位国会议员的办公室一样。
They open up the door and the chief of staff said, "Can we talk to just you for one second, and then we can bring in the two constituents?" And I said, "Sure, absolutely.
他们打开门，参谋长说：“我们可以只和你谈一会，然后我们可以带两位选民进来吗？”我说：“当然，绝对。
Not a problem." Walk in, they shut the door.
没问题。”走进去，他们关上了门。
The congressman is sitting behind his desk.
国会议员坐在他的办公桌后面。
He stands up, he shakes my hand and says, "Hey, Jimmy, it's great to see you." And I said, "Congressman, it's good to see you too." He said, "I have put in two calls to your PAC director and I haven't received any return phone calls.
他站起来，握着我的手说：“嘿，吉米，很高兴见到你。”我说：“议员先生，很高兴见到你。”他说：“我已经给你们的 PAC 主管打了两次电话，但没有收到任何回电。
Now why am I taking this meeting?" And he held up a piece of paper with my PAC director's name highlighted in yellow on it, with the dates and the times that he had called her to ask her for a campaign donation.
现在我为什么要参加这个会议？”他举起一张纸，上面用黄色突出显示了我的政治行动委员会主任的名字，还有他打电话给她要求她竞选捐款的日期和时间。
And she hadn't returned his call.
而她却没有回他的电话。
And then I thought to myself, "This is great." Because I've got two of my guys out here that are constituents of this congressman, who are now going to come in here and they're going to make an ask of him to support a specific piece of legislation.
然后我心想：“这太棒了。”因为我这里有两个人是这位国会议员的选民，他们现在要来这里，他们会要求他支持一项具体的立法。
And what he has done is he has warned me that if I don't take care of what my PAC director isn't doing, which is contributing to his campaign, then he's not going to help my guys.
他所做的是他警告我，如果我不关心我的政治行动委员会主任没有做的事情，这对他的竞选有贡献，那么他就不会帮助我的人。
Some members of Congress have a much easier time getting lobbyists and donors to call them back.
一些国会议员更容易让游说者和捐助者召回他们。
Members whose positions in Congress give them more sway over powerful interests.
在国会中担任职务的议员对强大的利益集团具有更大的影响力。
A lot of that depends on committee assignments.
这很大程度上取决于委员会的任务。
Here's Jeff Flake, a Republican congressman from Arizona.
这是来自亚利桑那州的共和党国会议员杰夫·弗莱克的报道。
I can tell you the difference between the fundraising potential when you're sitting on the Ways and Means Committee or sitting on the Science Committee.
我可以告诉您，当您担任筹款委员会成员或担任科学委员会成员时，筹款潜力之间的差异。
There's a difference.
有区别。
There's a big difference.
有很大的不同。
The Ways and Means Committee covers the US tax code.
筹款委员会负责美国税法。
Who gets tax breaks, who pays more.
谁获得税收减免，谁支付更多。
Every corporation in America concerned about the tax code-- which is a lot of corporations-- is suddenly concerned with your candidacy when you're on Ways and Means.
美国每家关心税法的公司——很多公司——突然关心你的候选资格，当你在筹款时。
The Science Committee can't compete with that.
科学委员会无法与之竞争。
Although, Science isn't the worst.
尽管如此，科学还不是最糟糕的。
Here's Walt Minnick.
请听沃尔特·明尼克的报道。
Well, I don't know the worst committees.
好吧，我不知道最糟糕的委员会。
Government Reform, Ethics.
政府改革，道德。
The leadership of both parties actually ranks each committee according to its fundraising potential.
双方领导层实际上根据每个委员会的筹款潜力对其进行排名。
There are lists of the A, B, and C committees with fundraising targets for each one.
有 A、B、C 委员会的名单以及每个委员会的筹款目标。
Those numbers aren't public-- many lawmakers say these lists exist, but no one would give one to us.
这些数字并不公开——许多立法者说这些名单存在，但没有人愿意给我们一份。
So we did our own list, based on publicly-disclosed fundraising numbers.
因此，我们根据公开披露的筹款数字制作了自己的清单。
Lee Drutman, a senior fellow at the Sunlight Foundation, crunched data for us, going back to the early '90s.
阳光基金会的高级研究员 Lee Drutman 为我们处理了 20 世纪 90 年代初的数据。
And the math shows the best committee is indeed Ways and Means.
数学表明最好的委员会确实是方法和手段。
Just getting on that committee earns you an estimated quarter million dollars more in donations than the average member of Congress.
仅仅加入该委员会就可以为你赚取比普通国会议员多 25 万美元的捐款。
Number two-- no big surprise here-- the Financial Services Committee.
第二个——这并不令人意外——金融服务委员会。
It covers banks and Wall Street.
它涵盖银行和华尔街。
It brings in $182,000 more per member than the average.
它为每个会员带来的收入比平均水平高 182,000 美元。
Third best-- Energy and Commerce, which has jurisdiction over the oil and natural gas industries.
第三名是能源和商业，管辖石油和天然气行业。
If you're there, you get a $142,000 boost in fundraising.
如果您参与其中，您将获得 142,000 美元的筹款奖励。
And as for the worst-- it's true, Government Reform is bad.
至于最坏的情况——确实，政府改革很糟糕。
As are Education and Natural Resources.
教育和自然资源也是如此。
They all hurt your fundraising.
它们都会损害你的筹款活动。
Members on those committees bring in less than the average.
这些委员会成员的收入低于平均水平。
But the very bottom spot belongs to the Judiciary Committee, which covers the federal courts and judicial nominations.
但最垫底的是司法委员会，该委员会负责联邦法院和司法提名。
Just being on Judiciary costs you $182,000 in donations.
仅在司法部门就需要花费 182,000 美元的捐款。
And then there's leadership.
然后是领导力。
According to the Sunlight data, having a leadership position on any committee-- even a dud committee-- will bump up your fundraising.
根据阳光数据，在任何委员会中担任领导职务——即使是一个无用的委员会——都会增加你的筹款量。
So, for example, even the chairman of the Government Reform committee does very well, bringing in about a half a million dollars more than the average House member.
举例来说，即使是政府改革委员会主席也做得很好，比众议院议员的平均收入多了大约50万美元。
And if you become a chairman of a powerhouse committee, an A committee, like Ways and Means or Energy, you pull in over $1 million more.
如果你成为一个强大委员会的主席，一个 A 级委员会，比如 Ways and Means 或 Energy，你就能多赚到超过 100 万美元。
Like Congressman Barney Frank.
就像国会议员巴尼·弗兰克一样。
He became a leader on the Financial Services Committee in 2003 and saw his fundraising skyrocket.
2003 年，他成为金融服务委员会的领导人，并见证了他的筹款金额猛增。
People would come to see me and pay for the privilege of doing that.
人们会来看我并为此付费。
But there's one catch to getting on a good committee or taking a leadership spot.
但要加入一个优秀的委员会或担任领导职务，有一个问题。
Jeff Flake, the Republican from Arizona, says once you get on a good committee or become a chairman, your party's leadership expects you to raise even more money and turn it over to them, so that they can spread it around to members who are less fortunate.
来自亚利桑那州的共和党人杰夫·弗莱克(Jeff Flake)表示，一旦你进入一个优秀的委员会或成为主席，你所在政党的领导层就会希望你筹集更多的资金并将其交给他们，以便他们可以将钱分给那些不幸的成员。
Ones in tight races who don't have such an easy time fundraising for themselves.
那些竞争激烈的人，为自己筹集资金并不那么容易。
Remember that list of the A, B, and C committees?
还记得 A、B 和 C 委员会的名单吗？
Flake says leadership makes those targets pretty explicit.
弗莱克说，领导层使这些目标非常明确。
We were given dues and assessments.
我们得到了会费和评估。
And if you're a senior member on committees that lend themselves to fundraising, and you're either a ranking member or you're the chairman, then you're expected to raise a lot of money.
如果您是适合筹款的委员会的高级成员，并且您要么是高级成员，要么是主席，那么您预计会筹集很多资金。
Or?
或者？
Jeff Flake Or when you come up every two years to either retain your position or move to another committee, those things are certainly taken into account.
杰夫·弗莱克（Jeff Flake）或者，当您每两年上任一次以保留职位或调到另一个委员会时，这些事情肯定会被考虑在内。
Do they tell you this?
他们告诉你这个吗？
Jeff Flake I think that's implied.
杰夫·弗莱克（Jeff Flake）我认为这是暗示的。
I think it's pretty well understood.
我认为这很好理解。
Lawmakers of both parties told us that if you're on a good committee, you regularly get called up in front of your party's leaders to go over your fundraising numbers.
两党议员告诉我们，如果你是一个优秀委员会的成员，你会经常被叫到党派领导人面前检查你的筹款数字。
And let's say your numbers aren't that good.
假设你的数据不太好。
You know there are other congressmen out there hungry for your spot, trying to prove to the party leadership that they'd do a better job raising money if they were in your position.
你知道还有其他国会议员渴望你的位置，试图向党的领导层证明，如果他们处于你的位置，他们会在筹集资金方面做得更好。
And you can hear this pressure in the voice of Eleanor Holmes Norton.
你可以从埃莉诺·霍姆斯·诺顿的声音中听到这种压力。
She's the congresswoman who left that voicemail we played at the beginning of the show.
她是留下我们在节目开始时播放的语音邮件的国会女议员。
This is a part we didn't play earlier.
这是我们之前没有玩过的部分。
I'm simply candidly calling to ask for a contribution.
我只是坦诚地打电话请求捐款。
As a senior member of the committee and a subcommittee chair, we have obligations to raise funds and I think it must have been me who hasn't, frankly, done my homework to ask for a contribution earlier.
作为委员会的资深成员和小组委员会的主席，我们有义务筹集资金，坦白说，我想一定是我没有做足功课，才要求捐款。
So I'm trying to make up for it by asking for one now, when we particularly need contributions.
因此，当我们特别需要捐款时，我想通过现在请求一份来弥补这一点。
Particularly those of us who have the seniority and the chairmanships and are in a position to raise funds.
特别是我们这些拥有资历和主席职位并且有能力筹集资金的人。
And this brings us to the big question-- what does the money buy?
这给我们带来了一个大问题——钱能买什么？
What are corporations and special interest getting in return for the billions of dollars they spend lobbying each year?
企业和特殊利益集团每年花费数十亿美元进行游说，得到了什么回报？
There tend to be two views on this.
对此往往有两种看法。
If you're cynical, you think money buys votes, pure and simple.
如果你愤世嫉俗，你就会认为金钱可以买到选票，这是纯粹而简单的事情。
Washington is owned.
华盛顿拥有。
Money drives everything.
金钱驱动一切。
But lobbyists and politicians will sometimes tell you the opposite.
但游说者和政客有时会告诉你相反的情况。
Money has no effect.
钱没有任何作用。
After all, they say, there's always two sides, and both are giving.
毕竟，他们说，总是有两个方面，而且双方都在给予。
Exporters versus importers, bankers versus Realtors, businesses versus unions.
出口商与进口商、银行家与房地产经纪人、企业与工会。
The money cancels itself out.
钱会自行抵消。
When we asked Barney Frank about this, he said both of those positions are caricatures.
当我们向巴尼·弗兰克询问此事时，他说这两个职位都是漫画。
People say, "Oh, it doesn't have any effect on me." Look, if that were the case, we would be the only human beings in the history of the world who, on a regular basis, took significant amounts of money from perfect strangers and made sure that it had no effect on our behavior.
人们说：“哦，这对我没有任何影响。”瞧，如果是这样的话，我们将是世界历史上唯一定期从完全陌生的人那里拿走大量金钱并确保它不会影响我们的行为的人类。
That is not human nature.
这不是人性。
On the other hand, he says, there are things that influence a politician besides money.
另一方面，他说，除了金钱之外，还有一些因素会影响政客。
If the voters have a position, the votes will kick money's rear end any time.
如果选民有立场，选票随时都会踢金钱的屁股。
I've never met a politician-- I've been in the legislative bodies for 40 years now-- who, choosing between a significant opinion in his or her district and a number of campaign contributors, doesn't go with the district.
我在立法机构工作了 40 年，我从未见过哪个政治家在他或她所在选区的重要意见和一些竞选贡献者之间做出选择时，不支持该选区。
And I have had people tell me-- and we talk honestly to each other, we don't lie to each other very often.
有人告诉我——我们彼此诚实地交谈，我们不经常互相撒谎。
You don't survive if you do.
如果你这样做，你就无法生存。
As chairman of a committee, I'd be lobbying for votes.
作为委员会主席，我会游说投票。
I have had members say to me, Mr. Chairman, I love you.
有成员对我说，主席先生，我爱你。
Barney, you're right.
巴尼，你是对的。
But I can't do that politically because I'll get killed in my district.
但我在政治上不能这样做，因为我会在我的地区被杀。
No one has ever said to me, I'm sorry, but I got a big contributor I can't offend.
从来没有人对我说过，对不起，但我有一位我不能冒犯的重要贡献者。
But the fact is, most legislation, your district doesn't care about.
但事实是，大多数立法，你所在的地区并不关心。
The stuff that makes the news is a tiny fraction of what Congress actually does.
那些成为新闻的内容只是国会实际所做的事情的一小部分。
They're deep in the weeds of tax law and business code and replacing the "and" in subsection b of title one with an "or." Things most voters have no opinions on.
他们深入研究了税法和商业法规，并用“或”取代了第一标题 b 小节中的“和”。大多数选民没有意见的事情。
The only people who do care, or who even understand what that small print means, are the lobbyists and the industries and interests they represent.
唯一关心或者理解这些小字含义的人是游说者以及他们所代表的行业和利益。
Consider the American Jobs Creation Act of 2004.
考虑一下 2004 年美国就业创造法案。
This was a piece of legislation that lots of multinational corporations spent a lot of time lobbying for because it got them a huge, one-time tax break.
许多跨国公司花了很多时间游说这项立法，因为它为他们带来了巨大的一次性税收减免。
Some of the profits-- the profits they made overseas-- would be taxed at just 5%, instead of the normal rate of 35%.
一些利润——他们在海外赚取的利润——将只按 5% 的税率征税，而不是正常的 35% 税率。
A massive windfall.
一笔巨大的意外之财。
This law caught the attention of a tax professor at the University of Kansas, Raquel Alexander.
这项法律引起了堪萨斯大学税务教授拉克尔·亚历山大的注意。
She thought it might help her understand a pretty difficult question she and her colleagues had been considering.
她认为这可能有助于她理解她和同事们一直在考虑的一个相当困难的问题。
We know that people lobby for a reason, but we haven't really been able to quantify what's the return on their lobbying investment.
我们知道人们进行游说是有原因的，但我们还没有真正能够量化他们的游说投资的回报是多少。
With the American Jobs Creation Act, Alexander and her colleagues finally got something that could help them add up the lobbying costs and benefits.
通过《美国就业创造法案》，亚历山大和她的同事们终于得到了一些可以帮助他们增加游说成本和收益的东西。
They simply compared the amount that companies spent lobbying with the amount they saved on their taxes.
他们只是将公司花在游说上的金额与节省的税款进行比较。
They came up with a figure.
他们想出了一个数字。
A figure they called "the return on investment for lobbying." Now, for some perspective, money in a regular old savings account, you be lucky to get a 1% return on your investment.
他们将这个数字称为“游说投资回报”。现在，从某种角度来看，如果您将钱存在常规旧储蓄账户中，那么您很幸运能够获得 1% 的投资回报。
On the other end of the spectrum, Bernie Madoff advertised annual returns of just over 10%.
另一方面，伯尼·麦道夫 (Bernie Madoff) 宣称年回报率略高于 10%。
If you want to come up with a big, impressive-sounding lie, a 10% return on investment is what you say.
如果你想编一个大的、听起来令人印象深刻的谎言，那么你所说的投资回报率就是10%。
The return on investment to lobbying, in the case of Alexander's study--
以亚历山大的研究为例，游说的投资回报——
22,000%.
22,000%。
So, for every dollar, on average, that these firms spend on tax lobbying, they receive $220 in tax benefits from this repatriation provision.
因此，这些公司平均每花费 1 美元用于税收游说，就能从这项汇回条款中获得 220 美元的税收优惠。
I was not.
我不是。
I was not expecting it to be that big at all.
我根本没想到它会这么大。
I thought I needed to go back and check my math again.
我想我需要回去再次检查我的数学。
So after the fifth or sixth time checking, you were like, well, this is the number.
所以在第五次或第六次检查之后，你会想，好吧，这就是数字。
In 2010, there was a total of $3.5 billion spent on lobbying.
2010年，游说费用总计35亿美元。
$3.5 billion.
35 亿美元。
It's hard to imagine that every one of those dollars got a 22,000% return.
很难想象每一美元都能获得 22,000% 的回报。
There are certainly companies out there that spend a lot of money and don't get what they want.
当然，有些公司花了很多钱却没有得到他们想要的东西。
They've just lost money.
他们刚刚赔了钱。
And it's not to say that the things they're lobbying for are bad public policy.
这并不是说他们游说的事情是糟糕的公共政策。
There are lots of people, President Obama included, who think a lower corporate tax rate would benefit the country.
包括奥巴马总统在内的很多人都认为降低企业税率将使国家受益。
Barney Frank and lots of others told us straight up, a lot of times, the lobbyist knows much more about your subject than you do as a congressman.
巴尼·弗兰克（Barney Frank）和许多其他人直截了当地告诉我们，很多时候，说客对你的主题的了解比你作为国会议员的多得多。
You depend on their expertise, and so you listen to their arguments.
您依赖他们的专业知识，因此您会听取他们的论点。
The problem is, those arguments are accompanied by a large check.
问题是，这些论点伴随着一大笔支票。
The other side of the issue-- you don't always hear from them.
问题的另一面——你并不总是收到他们的消息。
Again, Walt Minnick, the one-time congressman from Idaho.
再次是来自爱达荷州的前国会议员沃尔特·明尼克。
The fact that you get to explain your point of view because you're a big banker executive, and that someone who is just a depositor in the bank doesn't have the time to come into Washington, doesn't have the financial wherewithal.
事实上，你必须解释你的观点，因为你是一位大型银行家高管，而只是银行储户的人没有时间来到华盛顿，也没有财务资金。
So you may not get that side of the view as well articulated.
所以你可能无法清楚地表达这一观点。
So you may end up voting the wrong way because you haven't fully understood both sides of the story, even if you do have integrity.
因此，即使您确实诚实，您也可能最终会以错误的方式投票，因为您没有完全理解故事的双方。
Is there a time that you accepted a meeting and money with people that, in retrospect, you might not have?
有没有一次你接受了与人的会面和金钱，但现在回想起来，你可能没有这样做？
I had some meetings I was pretty uncomfortable at with the lender, the payday-loan kind of lender.
我与贷方（发薪日贷款类型的贷方）举行了一些会议，让我感到非常不舒服。
Some of the folks in that industry were a little unsavory.
这个行业的一些人有点令人讨厌。
They contributed to my campaign.
他们为我的竞选活动做出了贡献。
They're a big political contributor in Washington.
他们是华盛顿的重要政治贡献者。
And so that's an example of-- there weren't any people who were applying for payday loans that came in to see me.
这就是一个例子——没有任何申请发薪日贷款的人来看我。
The consumer side of that doesn't contribute a nickel.
消费者方面并没有贡献一分钱。
When he was talking about this, Walt Minnick told us, "I think I was able to vote in ways I don't regret." That ambiguity, it's built into the system.
当沃尔特·明尼克谈到这一点时，他告诉我们，“我认为我能够以我不后悔的方式投票。”这种模糊性是内置于系统中的。
And now he's on the other side of it.
现在他站在了另一边。
After losing his reelection bid in 2010, he became a lobbyist.
2010年竞选连任失败后，他成为一名游说者。
And he still has misgivings about the power of money and politics to frame the issues and set the agenda.
他仍然对金钱和政治的力量来框定问题和制定议程心存疑虑。
Money in the political system helps explain why oil companies get big subsidies, even while their business is booming.
政治体系中的金钱有助于解释为什么石油公司即使在业务蓬勃发展的情况下仍能获得巨额补贴。
Why the federal government provides flood insurance for rich people to build beach houses in hurricane zones.
为什么联邦政府为富人在飓风区建造海滨别墅提供洪水保险。
Why corn syrup that goes in soft drinks gets federal subsidies, and fruits and vegetables don't.
为什么软饮料中的玉米糖浆可以获得联邦补贴，而水果和蔬菜却没有。
It helps explain why the Defense Department paid two different companies to make engines for the Joint Strike Fighter.
这有助于解释为什么国防部付费给两家不同的公司来制造联合攻击战斗机的发动机。
Why you can deduct the interest you pay on your mortgage, but not the interest you pay on your credit card.
为什么您可以扣除抵押贷款利息，但不能扣除信用卡利息。
It's why we have a system where, even though we passed a comprehensive health care reform bill, where it's still illegal for the federal government to negotiate drug prices.
这就是为什么我们有一个系统，即使我们通过了全面的医疗保健改革法案，联邦政府谈判药品价格仍然是非法的。
We pay-- old people, young people, people needing a new cancer drug-- pay eight or 10 times as much in America as they do in any other country.
我们支付的费用——老年人、年轻人、需要新抗癌药物的人——在美国支付的费用是其他任何国家的八到十倍。
And that is directly a function of the amount of money the pharmaceutical industry has poured into congressional campaigns of members of both parties.
这直接取决于制药行业向两党成员的国会竞选活动投入的资金数额。
That's our system.
这就是我们的系统。
If a congressman went in front of a town hall meeting and said, for $5,000, I'll sit down with anyone of you and have breakfast.
如果一位国会议员在市政厅会议前说，只要 5,000 美元，我就可以和你们中的任何一个人坐下来吃早餐。
You can tell me exactly how you'd like me to vote.
您可以确切地告诉我您希望我如何投票。
He'd be booed off the stage.
他会被嘘下台。
But that's the case for pretty much everybody in Congress.
但国会中几乎每个人都是如此。
They don't even have to say it.
他们甚至不必说出来。
Alex Blumberg is a producer on our program and on the Planet Money team.
Alex Blumberg 是我们的节目和 Planet Money 团队的制作人。
Andrea Seabrook is NPR's congressional correspondent.
安德里亚·西布鲁克 (Andrea Seabrook) 是 NPR 的国会记者。
On the internet right now, the Sunlight Foundation and Planet Money crunched numbers from over 13,000 fundraising invitations.
目前，阳光基金会 (Sunlight Foundation) 和 Planet Money 正在互联网上处理超过 13,000 个筹款邀请的数字。
Put together an interactive map showing the most popular spots in DC for hosting a fundraiser, charts listing the best and worst congressional committees for fundraising, how many fundraisers over the years have been birthday parties, golf tournaments, and hunting trips.
制作一张交互式地图，显示华盛顿特区举办筹款活动最受欢迎的地点，列出最好和最差的国会筹款委员会的图表，以及多年来有多少筹款活动是生日聚会、高尔夫锦标赛和狩猎旅行。
That and more is at Planet Money's website, npr.org/money.
这些内容以及更多信息请访问 Planet Money 的网站 npr.org/money。
Coming up, how everything that you just heard is now changing.
接下来，你刚才听到的一切现在正在改变。
Changing in such a big way to give individual donors and corporations and unions way, way more leverage, thanks to the United States Supreme Court.
感谢美国最高法院，做出了如此大的改变，为个人捐助者、公司和工会提供了更多的影响力。
That's in a minute, from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
稍后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, "Take the Money and Run for Congress"-- stories about the moment that money is handed to a politician and what it buys.
今天我们的节目“拿着钱竞选国会”——讲述钱被交给政客的那一刻以及它能买到什么的故事。
We've arrived at act two of our program.
我们已经进入了计划的第二幕。
Act Two, PAC Men.
第二幕，PAC 成员。
So everything that we described in the first half of the program-- the fundraisers, the phone banks of congressmen asking for donations-- all of that right now is, at this very moment, changing dramatically.
因此，我们在计划前半部分描述的一切——筹款活动、国会议员要求捐款的电话银行——所有这一切此时此刻都在发生巨大的变化。
The way that money flows into politics is changing because of the 2010 Supreme Court decision in the Citizens United case.
由于 2010 年最高法院对 Citizens United 案件的判决，资金流入政治的方式正在发生变化。
Citizens United lifted a bunch of restrictions on political spending.
公民联合组织取消了一系列对政治支出的限制。
It opened the door for unlimited political spending by corporations and by unions.
它为企业和工会无限的政治支出打开了大门。
And it gave birth to entities called "Super PACs." These funds can take, again, unlimited amounts directly from corporations, unions, millionaires-- anybody-- and spend it on politics.
它催生了名为“超级政治行动委员会”的实体。同样，这些资金可以直接从公司、工会、百万富翁——任何人——那里获取无限量的资金，并将其用于政治。
And because of the way the laws are written, Super PAC donors can either temporarily or, sometimes, permanently keep their identities from becoming public.
由于法律的制定方式，超级政治行动委员会的捐助者可以暂时或有时永久地不公开其身份。
Meaning that people can drop millions into any given race.
这意味着人们可以投入数百万美元参加任何特定的比赛。
They can write commercials, they can attack candidates, and voters will never know who they were.
他们可以写广告，他们可以攻击候选人，而选民永远不会知道他们是谁。
A lot of attention has been paid to what this is going to do to presidential politics, but where it is already having a big effect is Congress.
人们非常关注这将对总统政治产生什么影响，但它已经对国会产生了巨大影响。
Ben Calhoun tells how.
本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun) 讲述了如何做到这一点。
Here's one pretty good example of how Super PACs are affecting American politics.
这是超级政治行动委员会如何影响美国政治的一个很好的例子。
Affecting the whole balance of money and influence.
影响金钱和影响力的整体平衡。
It starts in Northern California.
它始于北加州。
Starts in the suburban congressional district around Sacramento.
从萨克拉门托周围的郊区国会区开始。
And it starts with this guy who was never supposed to win.
一切都从这个本来不应该获胜的人开始。
Most folks thought, you know what, Ami?
大多数人都想，阿米，你知道吗？
You can't win this race.
你无法赢得这场比赛。
Ami Bera is a doctor, a college professor, and when he ran for Congress in 2010, his chances were pretty bleak.
阿米·贝拉 (Ami Bera) 是一名医生、大学教授，2010 年竞选国会议员时，他的机会相当渺茫。
He was a Democrat in a midterm election where Democrats took a beating.
他是一名民主党人，在中期选举中民主党遭到了失败。
He was a first time candidate taking on a sitting Republican congressmen named Dan Lungren, and this was in a district that favored Republicans.
他是第一次与现任共和党国会议员丹·龙格伦 (Dan Lungren) 较量的候选人，而且这是在一个有利于共和党的选区。
Just to give you a sense of how bad it looked, at the beginning of the summer, Ami Bera took a poll.
为了让您了解情况有多糟糕，阿米·贝拉 (Ami Bera) 在夏初进行了一项民意调查。
When we did that first poll, we saw that we were over 30 points down.
当我们进行第一次民意调查时，我们发现我们落后了 30 个百分点。
So I thought, god, how are we going to overcome 30 points?
所以我想，天啊，我们要如何克服30分呢？
30 points.
30分。
30 points is a lot.
30分很多了。
But week by week, Bera got his feet underneath him.
但一周又一周，贝拉逐渐站稳了脚跟。
He shook hands, he spoke at events, gathered volunteers, asked friends and acquaintances for money.
他握手、在活动中讲话、召集志愿者、向朋友和熟人要钱。
All summer he did this.
整个夏天他都这样做。
July, August, September.
七月、八月、九月。
You know, we did a second poll at the beginning of October.
你知道，我们在十月初进行了第二次民意调查。
I vividly remember when that second poll came in and our pollster called us together for the results.
我清楚地记得当第二次民意调查出来时，我们的民意调查员把我们召集在一起查看结果。
And the one thing she said was, "Single digits, baby." We went from 30 points down to a tight single-digit race.
她说的一件事是：“个位数，宝贝。”我们从落后 30 分变成了一场紧张的个位数比赛。
And there was a lot of high-fiving going on, and saying, you know what?
很多人击掌并说，你知道吗？
We might get this.
我们可能会得到这个。
And then a couple days later, we were in the campaign office making phone calls, fundraising, and one of the younger staffers was on the internet and pulled up The Rothenberg Political Report, which is one of the big political pundits.
几天后，我们在竞选办公室打电话、筹款，一位年轻的工作人员在互联网上调出《罗滕伯格政治报告》，这是重要的政治专家之一。
Just quickly, when it comes to the art of judging congressional races-- figuring out which ones are really competitive, which seats could change hands, all that stuff-- there's pretty much two people that everybody listens to.
很快，当谈到评判国会竞选的艺术时——弄清楚哪些竞选真正具有竞争力，哪些席位可以易手，等等——几乎每个人都会听两个人的意见。
There's one guy named Charlie Cook.
有一个人叫查理·库克。
The other is Stu Rothenberg.
另一个是斯图·罗滕伯格。
So this Bera staffer goes to a computer, looks at The Rothenberg Report .
因此，贝拉的这位工作人员走到电脑前，查看《罗森伯格报告》。
And he comes busting out of the room and says, "You know what?
他冲出房间说：“你知道吗？
Rothenberg moved us to a tossup race." Everyone else had us leaning Republican, and Stu Rothenberg moved us to a tossup.
罗滕伯格让我们陷入了一场势均力敌的比赛。”其他人都认为我们倾向于共和党，而斯图·罗滕伯格则让我们陷入了两难的境地。
When Rothenberg moved us to tossup, that was external validation that says, OK, game on.
当罗滕伯格让我们进行折腾时，这是外部验证，表明“好吧，游戏继续”。
We've got momentum on our side, we're moving.
我们有动力，我们正在前进。
The needle's moving in our direction.
针正朝我们的方向移动。
We can do this.
我们可以做到这一点。
Soon, Time Magazine and The New York Times were reporting on how competitive the race was.
很快，《时代》杂志和《纽约时报》就报道了这场比赛的竞争程度。
The Times actually ran a piece calling the incumbent, Dan Lungren, "endangered." All of a sudden, more and more people were looking at Bera like he was a possible winner.
《泰晤士报》实际上发表了一篇文章，称现任总统丹·龙仁“濒临危险”。突然间，越来越多的人看着贝拉，好像他是一个可能的赢家。
And people started treating him like one.
人们开始像对待一个人一样对待他。
Donations took off.
捐款开始了。
Everything sort of continued to fall into place until one very specific day.
一切都继续按部就班地进行，直到某一特定的一天。
It was probably Wednesday or Thursday, right before-- at the end of the third week.
可能是星期三或星期四，就在第三周结束之前。
This is the third week in October.
这是十月的第三周。
So just as we're getting up to two weeks out of Election Day.
距离选举日还有两周时间。
And one of our team members says, "You know what?
我们的一位团队成员说：“你知道吗？
American Crossroads has made a media buy in our media market."
美国十字路口在我们的媒体市场上进行了媒体购买。”
American Crossroads is a Super PAC, put together by some of the country's leading conservative operatives and donors-- most notably, Karl Rove.
美国十字路口是一个超级政治行动委员会，由美国一些主要的保守派人士和捐助者组成，其中最著名的是卡尔·罗夫。
In the Super PAC world, Crossroads is massive.
在超级政治行动委员会的世界中，十字路口规模巨大。
Moneywise, they raise a ton-- $27 million last year and this year.
在资金方面，他们去年和今年筹集了大量资金——2700万美元。
Their directors are prominent conservative leaders and their donors, who give millions of dollars, are big ones.
他们的董事都是著名的保守派领导人，他们的捐赠者也都是大人物，捐赠了数百万美元。
For example, Bob Perry, the main donor behind the Swift Boat stuff.
例如，鲍勃·佩里 (Bob Perry)，Swift Boat 背后的主要捐助者。
Perry's given Crossroads more than $8 million.
佩里向 Crossroads 捐赠了超过 800 万美元。
But anyway, back to Bera, who, after weeks of picking up steam, has just found out that Crossroads is about to spend money in Sacramento.
但无论如何，回到贝拉，经过几周的努力，他刚刚发现十字路口即将在萨克拉门托花钱。
And it was a lot of money-- $682,000.
这是一大笔钱——682,000 美元。
When Bera heard about this, he hoped that at least some of that money was going to be spent going after this other Democrat one congressional district over.
当贝拉听说此事时，他希望至少有一部分资金能用于追捕另一个民主党国会选区。
I hate to wish ill on another person who's running for Congress, but it's like, well, I hope it's going in his direction.
我不想对另一个竞选国会议员的人抱有不好的希望，但就像，好吧，我希望事情朝着他的方向发展。
So we did some digging around.
所以我们做了一些挖掘。
Folks went to the television stations to see what the buy was like.
人们去电视台看看购买情况如何。
And they came back a little while later and say, it's all going against you, Ami.
过了一会儿他们回来说，这一切都对你不利，阿米。
It's all a negative Bera buy.
这都是贝拉的负面购买。
So, it's like, you stop there for second and the pit of your stomach falls out.
所以，就像，你停在那里一秒钟，你的胃就掉下来了。
Not only does Ami Bera support Obamacare, he says it doesn't go far enough?
阿米·贝拉不仅支持奥巴马医改，还说这还不够？
Obamacare's $525 billion in job killing taxes isn't far enough?
奥巴马医改 5250 亿美元的失业税还不够吗？
This is the commercial that Rove and American Crossroads ran against Bera.
这是罗夫和美国十字路口针对贝拉投放的广告。
Just for the record, Bera thought Obama's Health Care Affordability Act-- aka Obamacare-- he thought it was flawed, needed to be fixed.
郑重声明，贝拉认为奥巴马的医疗保健负担得起法案（又称奥巴马医改法案）存在缺陷，需要修复。
He did not say what the commercial is saying.
他没有透露广告内容。
And he told this to anybody that would listen, but it was hard to counter Crossroads's ad buy, which was in heavy rotation.
他把这一点告诉了任何愿意听的人，但很难对抗 Crossroads 的广告购买，因为广告购买的频率很高。
When those commercials were running, what is your most prominent memory of either seeing it at home or talking about it with a friend or your wife?
当这些广告播放时，您在家里看到或与朋友或妻子谈论时最突出的记忆是什么？
Is there a conversation or something that sticks out in your mind?
有没有一段对话或一些事情让你印象深刻？
Probably my daughter saying, "Dad, you're on television again.
可能我女儿会说：“爸爸，你又上电视了。
Dad, you're on television again." Because the commercial was running so often.
爸爸，你又上电视了。”因为广告经常播放。
I know that every TV market is different.
我知道每个电视市场都是不同的。
What does $680,000 get you in a week in Sacrament?
每周 680,000 美元在 Sacrament 能给你带来什么？
How heavy was it?
有多重？
A lot of commercials.
很多广告。
Josh, you may know.
乔什，你可能知道。
This is Bera's campaign manager, Josh Wolf.
这是贝拉的竞选经理乔什·沃尔夫。
Yeah, it was about 1600 points, which means that the average viewer will see that commercial about 16 times.
是的，大约是1600分，这意味着平均观众会看到该广告大约16次。
Which is a lot.
这是很多。
The average viewer?
普通观众？
Ami Bera So the average person watching television during that week would have seen that ad 16 times.
Ami Bera 因此，在那一周看电视的普通人会看到该广告 16 次。
In just one week.
短短一周内。
Ami Bera So there's a reason why my daughter was saying, "Hey dad, you're on television again.
阿米·贝拉（Ami Bera）所以我女儿说：“嘿爸爸，你又上电视了，这是有原因的。
Hey, there's that commercial again."
嘿，那个广告又来了。”
Day by day, as these ads continued to run, the Bera campaign struggled to respond.
随着这些广告日复一日地持续投放，贝拉竞选团队难以做出回应。
Bera sent out emails, sent out press releases, talked to reporters, but what Bera really needed was money.
贝拉发出电子邮件，发出新闻稿，与记者交谈，但贝拉真正需要的是钱。
According to him, the campaign had budgeted money for a late rainy day, but it wasn't enough to match $682,000.
据他介绍，竞选团队已经为未雨绸缪做好了预算，但还不足以匹配 682,000 美元。
Eventually, the situation got so dire that Bera tried to bail out the campaign with a $400,000 loan.
最终，情况变得如此严峻，贝拉试图用 40 万美元的贷款来救助竞选活动。
And what were your most recent polls showing before those ads hit?
在这些广告投放之前，您最近的民意调查显示了什么？
We were probably down by 8%.
我们可能下降了 8%。
Ben Calhoun But you actually saw-- you saw the numbers move after those commercials.
本·卡尔霍恩 但你实际上看到了——你看到这些广告之后数字发生了变化。
Oh, absolutely.
哦，绝对是。
Ami Bera Yeah.
阿米·贝拉 是的。
I mean, it clearly had impact and drove us backwards.
我的意思是，它显然产生了影响并使我们倒退。
We went from a single-digit race to 14 points down.
我们从个位数的领先优势变成了 14 分的落后优势。
Now, that's a lot to make up in a single week.
现在，一周内就需要弥补很多。
Of course, it's impossible to know if, without the Crossroads ads, Bera could've closed that eight point gap and won the race.
当然，不可能知道如果没有十字路口广告，贝拉是否能够缩小八分的差距并赢得比赛。
Eight points is a lot of ground to make up in two weeks.
八分是两周内需要弥补的大量基础。
What is possible to know, though, is that Bera could not compete with $682,000 in TV commercials.
但可以知道的是，Bera 无法与 682,000 美元的电视广告竞争。
I mean, just to put that number in context, during the entire campaign, the Republican incumbent, Dan Lungren, raised and spent about $1.9 million.
我的意思是，为了将这个数字放在背景中，在整个竞选期间，共和党现任总统丹·龙格伦 (Dan Lungren) 筹集并支出了约 190 万美元。
That means American Crossroads, when it spent about $700,000, it single-handedly increased spending on Lungren's side by more than 30% in a single day.
这意味着《美国十字路口》在花费约70万美元时，一天之内就将龙仁这边的支出增加了30%以上。
I mean, it's like playing a chess game.
我的意思是，这就像下棋游戏。
You lay out your strategy and you're making your moves and so forth.
你制定你的策略并采取你的行动等等。
You've taken your opponent's queen and all of a sudden he reaches into his pocket and pulls out another queen and drops it on the table.
你已经拿走了对手的皇后，突然他把手伸进口袋，掏出另一张皇后并将其放在桌子上。
I did call Dan Lungren to get his side of all this.
我确实给丹·龙格伦打了电话，以了解他对这一切的看法。
As it happens, Lungren's actually the chair of the House Administration Committee, which oversees the enforcement of elections law.
碰巧的是，龙格伦实际上是众议院管理委员会的主席，该委员会负责监督选举法的执行。
So if Bera felt like this whole thing had been unfair, I just wondered what it looked like to Lungren, who had benefited from that big ad buy.
因此，如果贝拉觉得整件事不公平，我只是想知道龙格伦会是什么样子，因为他从这笔大笔广告购买中受益。
I talked to his campaign, talked to his office in DC.
我与他的竞选团队、他在华盛顿的办公室进行了交谈。
After contacting them more than half a dozen times, Lungren never explicitly said he didn't want to talk about any of this.
在与他们联系了六次以上之后，龙仁从未明确表示他不想谈论这些。
His staff just never responded to any of my requests.
他的工作人员从来没有回应我的任何要求。
You probably heard little about this because it didn't really get covered, but in 2010-- on both sides of the aisle-- Super PACs we're doing this all across the country.
你可能很少听说过这件事，因为它并没有真正得到报道，但在 2010 年——在两党——超级政治行动委员会中，我们正在全国范围内这样做。
Swooping into congressional races, spending hundreds of thousands-- sometimes millions-- of dollars.
投入国会竞选，花费数十万甚至数百万美元。
affecting who was representing us in Washington.
影响谁在华盛顿代表我们。
Again, lots of us weren't even paying attention.
再说一次，我们很多人甚至都没有注意到。
This year, we've seen a lot of headlines about this person and that person putting millions of dollars into the presidential race.
今年，我们看到了很多关于这个人和那个人投入数百万美元参加总统竞选的头条新闻。
But Super PACs can throw their weight around more in smaller races, like House races.
但超级政治行动委员会可以在较小的竞选中发挥更大的作用，比如众议院竞选。
There, every dollar is more influential.
在那里，每一美元都更具影响力。
Put $5 million into a presidential campaign-- no matter how flashy that is, you're still ultimately just a drop in the bucket.
投入 500 万美元参加总统竞选——无论多么华而不实，你最终仍然只是杯水车薪。
Put half a million dollars into the right House race, you can change the fate of an entire campaign.
在正确的众议院竞选中投入五十万美元，你可以改变整个竞选的命运。
Every potentially vulnerable member of Congress is worried about a late-breaking, enormously-expensive attack campaign used against them.
每一位潜在的弱势国会议员都担心针对他们的最新的、耗资巨大的攻击活动。
This is Norm Ornstein.
这是诺姆·奥恩斯坦。
He works at the conservative think tank, the American Enterprise Institute.
他在保守派智库美国企业研究所工作。
Ornstein's been living in the world of congressional politics for decades as a journalist, an academic, a columnist.
几十年来，奥恩斯坦一直以记者、学者、专栏作家的身份生活在国会政治的世界里。
He says these big chunks of Super PAC money that seem to be roaming around have everybody nervous.
他说，超级政治行动委员会的大笔资金似乎四处流动，让每个人都感到紧张。
They've taken the pressure on candidates to raise money and they've turned it up even higher.
他们向候选人施加压力，要求他们筹集资金，并且将资金调得更高。
Imagine if you've got enough money to take on an opponent, even raise some money for your party, and two weeks before the election, somebody-- and you may not even know who it is, and certainly the voters aren't going to know who it is-- spends $10 million in a blanket television campaign defining you as a scoundrel, an alien, a felon, and a louse.
想象一下，如果你有足够的钱来对抗对手，甚至为你的政党筹集一些资金，而在选举前两周，有人——你甚至可能不知道他是谁，当然选民也不会知道他是谁——花费 1000 万美元进行全面电视竞选，将你定义为恶棍、外星人、重罪犯和虱子。
You can't raise the money at that date to do anything about it.
到那时你无法筹集资金来做任何事情。
You don't have time.
你没有时间。
So what's happening now is more and more members of Congress are raising a protective war chest, just in case.
因此，现在越来越多的国会议员正在筹集保护性战争资金，以防万一。
Like a rainy day fund.
就像雨天基金一样。
Norm Ornstein You could call it a rainy day fund.
诺姆·奥恩斯坦（Norm Ornstein） 你可以称其为“雨天基金”。
You could call it an arsenal.
你可以称其为军火库。
A stockpile of nuclear weapons, just in case there's a sneak attack.
储备核武器，以防万一发生偷袭。
If you do the long division of what's happening, it's not hard to see where it's headed.
如果你对正在发生的事情进行长除法，就不难看出它的发展方向。
That we're drifting towards a new version of Congress, one where there are people in the House and in the Senate who have had their political existences made or broken by a single entity, one single donor.
我们正在走向新版本的国会，在这个版本中，众议院和参议院的人们的政治存在都是由一个实体、一个捐助者决定的。
Norm Ornstein says money, in these kinds of amounts, in some cases, people don't even have to spend it and it can affect what happens in Washington.
诺姆·奥恩斯坦说，在某些情况下，这种数额的钱，人们甚至不必花掉，它就可以影响华盛顿发生的事情。
I've had this tale told to me by a number of lawmakers.
许多立法者都向我讲述过这个故事。
You're sitting in your office and a lobbyist comes in and says, "I'm working with Americans for a Better America.
你坐在办公室里，一位游说者进来说：“我正在与美国人合作，打造一个更美好的美国。
And I can't tell you who's funding them, but I can tell you they really, really want this amendment in the bill." And who knows what they'll do?
我不能告诉你谁在资助他们，但我可以告诉你他们真的非常希望在法案中提出这项修正案。”谁知道他们会做什么？
They've got more money than God.
他们的钱比上帝还多。
If somebody disappoints them, the implication becomes clear-- cross them and you're going to get the $20 million alien/predator attack on you and your campaign.
如果有人让他们失望，那么含义就很明显了——如果违背了他们的要求，你和你的竞选活动就会受到 2000 万美元的外星人/掠夺者攻击。
And when they leave the office, the lawmaker is sitting there thinking, it's just one amendment, one little thing.
当他们离开办公室时，立法者坐在那里思考，这只是一项修正案，一件小事。
And so what's going to happen here is, even without spending the money, in a lot of instances, there are going to be changes in laws that will benefit special interests because of the threat of millions of dollars in undisclosed contributions to bludgeon somebody who thwarts them.
因此，这里将发生的事情是，即使不花钱，在很多情况下，法律也会发生变化，这将有利于特殊利益，因为数百万美元的未公开捐款威胁会打击那些阻碍他们的人。
You said that these are conversations that you've already heard of happening at this point?
您说您已经听说过这些对话？
Yeah.
是的。
I've had more than one member of Congress-- House and Senate-- tell me about having conversations like this.
不止一位国会议员——众议院和参议院——告诉我有过这样的谈话。
In this environment, Democrat Ami Bera and Republican Dan Lungren are going for round two.
在这种环境下，民主党人阿米·贝拉（Ami Bera）和共和党人丹·龙格伦（Dan Lungren）将进入第二轮角逐。
In some ways, Bera's got the wind at his back.
从某些方面来说，贝拉是顺风顺水的。
California remapped Lungren's district, made it more Democratic.
加利福尼亚州重新绘制了隆格伦选区的地图，使其更加民主。
Bera's also out-fundraised Lungren.
贝拉 (Bera) 的筹款额也超过了龙格伦 (Lungren)。
But at this house party event I went to with Bera, he took questions from a crowd for about half an hour.
但在我和贝拉一起参加的这个家庭聚会活动中，他花了大约半个小时回答了人群的问题。
And Super PAC spending-- it came up three times.
超级政治行动委员会的支出增加了三倍。
What everybody seemed to agree on was that this big infusion of outside money-- they were all pretty much counting on it happening again.
每个人似乎都同意，外部资金的大量注入——他们几乎都指望这种情况再次发生。
They talked about it as the new reality, because the role of Super PACs is only getting bigger.
他们将其视为新的现实，因为超级政治行动委员会的作用只会越来越大。
Republicans and Democrats are both amassing money.
共和党和民主党都在积累资金。
Everyone's planning to do more of this.
每个人都计划做更多这样的事情。
Last time, Karl Rove's Crossroads group spent $37 million on about 40 different races.
上次，Karl Rove 的 Crossroads 团队在大约 40 场不同的比赛中花费了 3700 万美元。
This time, including all the races-- presidential, House, Senate-- this time, it's been reported that Crossroads plans to raise and spend more than $300 million.
这一次，包括所有竞选——总统、众议院、参议院——据报道，Crossroads 计划筹集和支出超过 3 亿美元。
And they're just one of many.
他们只是众多人之一。
Ben Calhoun.
本·卡尔霍恩.
He is one of the producers of our show.
他是我们节目的制作人之一。
[MUSIC - "IF YOU'VE GOT THE MONEY, I'VE GOT THE TIME" BY JO STAFFORD]
[音乐 - JO STAFFORD 的“如果你有钱，我就有时间”]
Act Three, The O.G.s.
第三幕，O.G.s.
In the wake of Citizens United-- it seems like forever ago, but it was only a decade ago, in 2002, that Congress voted to reform how money works in politics when it passed BiCRA, the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, better known as McCain-Feingold, after the Republican and Democratic senators who sponsored the legislation, John McCain and Russ Feingold.
在公民联合组织之后——这似乎已经是很久以前的事了，但仅仅在十年前，即 2002 年，国会投票通过了 BiCRA（两党竞选改革法案），以改革金钱在政治中的运作方式，该法案更为人所知的是麦凯恩-法因戈尔德（McCain-Feingold），以发起该法案的共和党和民主党参议员约翰·麦凯恩（John McCain）和拉斯·法因戈尔德（Russ Feingold）的名字命名。
John, how are you?
约翰，你好吗？
John Mccain Well, I miss you.
约翰·麦凯恩 好吧，我想你。
You're not missing a thing, but I miss you.
你没有错过任何东西，但我想你。
For this last act, we wanted to talk with the two senators who have spent so much of their political lives fighting to lessen the impact of money in the political system.
对于最后一幕，我们想与两位参议员交谈，他们花了很多时间从政，努力减少金钱对政治体系的影响。
John McCain, of course, was the 2008 Republican nominee for President.
当然，约翰·麦凯恩是 2008 年共和党总统候选人。
He's still in the Senate, representing Arizona.
他仍在参议院，代表亚利桑那州。
Russ Feingold was swept out of office in the 2010 election.
拉斯·法因戈尔德 (Russ Feingold) 在 2010 年大选中被扫地出门。
He'd represented Wisconsin there since 1993.
自 1993 年以来，他一直代表威斯康星州参赛。
He's now teaching at Stanford University.
他现在在斯坦福大学任教。
The two men spoke with Alex, Andrea, and Ben.
这两个人与亚历克斯、安德里亚和本进行了交谈。
And, listening to this interview, one of the things that stands out most is, well, how angry they sound when they're talking about the Citizens United decision.
而且，听完这次采访，最引人注目的一件事是，当他们谈论公民联合的决定时，他们听起来多么愤怒。
For example, McCain talking about the part of the Supreme Court ruling that says that candidates are not supposed to coordinate with the Super PACs that support them.
例如，麦凯恩谈到了最高法院裁决的一部分，即候选人不应与支持他们的超级政治行动委员会协调。
The joke that they are not coordinating with the campaigns, it's beyond ridiculous.
他们不与竞选活动协调的笑话，这太荒谬了。
People who are part of their campaigns go over to run the PAC-- but they're not coordinating anything, don't get me wrong.
参与他们竞选活动的人去管理政治行动委员会——但他们并没有协调任何事情，请不要误会我的意思。
Gambling is not taking place in this establishment.
该机构内不进行赌博活动。
I mean, it's beyond belief.
我的意思是，这令人难以置信。
What Senator McCain is referring to is the fact that the candidate's own staffers are often the ones who leave to run these Super PACs.
麦凯恩参议员所指的是，候选人自己的工作人员往往是离开去管理这些超级政治行动委员会的人。
A pro-Obama Super PAC called Priorities USA is run by President Obama's former deputy press secretary.
亲奥巴马的超级政治行动委员会名为“美国优先”，由奥巴马总统的前新闻副秘书负责管理。
Carl Forti who is political director of American Crossroads and senior strategist for a pro-Mitt Romney Super PAC called Restore Our Future, used to be Mitt Romney's political director.
卡尔·福蒂（Carl Forti）是美国十字路口的政治总监，也是亲米特·罗姆尼的超级政治行动委员会“恢复我们的未来”的高级策略师，曾担任米特·罗姆尼的政治总监。
We'll pick up our interview here where the two senators are talking about what it was like the day they went over to observe the Supreme Court hearing arguments during the Citizens United case.
我们将在这里继续我们的采访，两位参议员正在谈论他们在公民联合案期间前往最高法院旁听最高法院听证会的那天的情况。
At first, I was outraged.
起初，我很愤怒。
The day that Russ and I went over and observed the arguments, the questions that were asked, the naivety of the questions that were asked and the arrogance of some of the questioners, it was just stunning.
那天，拉斯和我过去观察了争论、提出的问题、提出的问题的天真以及一些提问者的傲慢，这真是令人震惊。
Particularly Scalia with his sarcasm.
尤其是斯卡利亚的讽刺。
Why shouldn't these people be able to engage in this process?
为什么这些人不能参与这个过程？
Why do you want to restrict them from their rights of free speech?
为什么要限制他们言论自由的权利？
And the questions they asked showed they had not the slightest clue as to what a political campaign is all about and the role of money that it plays in political campaigns.
他们提出的问题表明，他们对政治竞选到底是什么以及金钱在政治竞选中扮演的角色一无所知。
And I remember when Russ and I walked out of there, I said, Russ, we're going to lose and it's because they are clueless.
我记得当我和拉斯走出那里时，我说，拉斯，我们会输，因为他们一无所知。
Remember that day we were over there, Russ?
还记得我们在那儿的那天吗，拉斯？
Absolutely, John.
绝对是，约翰。
I couldn't agree with you more.
我非常同意你的观点。
It clearly was one of the worst decisions ever of the Supreme Court.
这显然是最高法院有史以来最糟糕的判决之一。
The trouble with this issue-- and I think John would agree with this-- is people have gotten so down about it, they think it's always been this way.
这个问题的问题在于——我认为约翰会同意这一点——人们对此感到如此沮丧，他们认为事情一直如此。
Well, it's never been this way, since 1907.
嗯，自 1907 年以来，从来没有这样过。
It's never been the case that when you buy toothpaste or detergent or a gallon of gas, that the next day that money can be used on a candidate that you don't believe in.
当你购买牙膏、清洁剂或一加仑汽油时，第二天这些钱就可以用在你不相信的候选人身上，这种情况从来都没有发生过。
That's brand new.
那是全新的。
That's never happened since the Tillman act and the Taft Hartley Act.
自蒂尔曼法案和塔夫脱哈特利法案以来，这种情况从未发生过。
And so, people have to realize this is a whole new deal.
因此，人们必须意识到这是一项全新的交易。
It's not business as usual.
这不像往常一样。
The two of you, given the time and political capital that you put into passing the reform that you did--
鉴于你们为通过改革所投入的时间和政治资本，你们两个——
[LAUGHTER] Ben Calhoun And given that, when you look at the current situation, I wonder if you feel a little bit like Sisyphus with the rock at the bottom.
[笑声] Ben Calhoun 考虑到这一点，当你看到目前的情况时，我想知道你是否感觉有点像西西弗斯，石头在底部。
I feel a great sense of disappointment and sorrow, because we did see the corruption that existed before.
我感到非常失望和悲伤，因为我们确实看到了以前存在的腐败。
And now you could make an argument that we've gone back further, even, than we had been before.
现在你可以说我们甚至比以前更早了。
Before there were at least some restrictions-- particularly on corporations and unions-- but now it's just-- it's inevitable as the sun will come up tomorrow.
之前至少有一些限制——特别是对公司和工会的限制——但现在——这是不可避免的，因为明天太阳就会升起。
There will be scandals.
将会有丑闻。
I don't know exactly what it's gonna be, but I guarantee you, there's too much money washing around the political arena today.
我不知道具体会是什么，但我向你保证，今天政治舞台上有太多的钱在洗钱。
I've had conversations with Democratic givers out here in the Bay Area and I'll tell you, you wouldn't believe the requests they're getting.
我已经与湾区的民主党捐赠者进行了交谈，我告诉你，你不会相信他们收到的请求。
The opening ante is a million dollars.
开盘赌注是一百万美元。
It's not, gee, it'd be nice if you give a million.
不，哎呀，给一百万就好了。
That's sort of the baseline.
这就是基线。
This is unprecedented.
这是前所未有的。
And, in fact, one thing that John and I experienced was that sometimes the corporations that didn't like the system would come to us and say, you know, you guys, it's not legalized bribery, it's legalized extortion.
事实上，约翰和我经历的一件事是，有时不喜欢这个系统的公司会来找我们说，你们知道，你们这不是合法的贿赂，这是合法的勒索。
Because it's not like the company CEO calls up to say, gee, I'd love to give you some money.
因为这不像公司首席执行官打电话说，天啊，我很乐意给你一些钱。
It's usually the other way around.
通常情况恰恰相反。
The politician or their agent who's got the Super PAC, they're the ones that are calling up and asking for the money.
拥有超级政治行动委员会的政治家或他们的代理人，就是他们打电话索要钱的人。
So a lot of businesses, I think, are going to help us rebel against this and say, you know, we don't want to be a part of this mess.
因此，我认为，很多企业将帮助我们反抗这一点，并说，你知道，我们不想成为这场混乱的一部分。
You know, Andrea and I and Ben and I have been talking to lots and lots of people who are involved-- politicians, lobbyists, talking to them about the process of fundraising.
你知道，安德里亚和我以及本和我一直在与很多参与其中的人——政治家、游说者交谈，与他们谈论筹款的过程。
Most of the people we talked to hate it.
我们交谈过的大多数人都讨厌它。
They hate making those phone calls, they hate going into that room, they hate going to the fundraisers morning, noon, and night, they hate sucking up to people to give them money to get elected.
他们讨厌打那些电话，他们讨厌走进那个房间，他们讨厌早上、中午和晚上去参加筹款活动，他们讨厌巴结人们给他们钱来当选。
Why don't more people try to change it?
为什么没有更多的人尝试去改变它呢？
After this program, I am going to a fundraiser for a guy whose name is Kirk Adams who is running for the US House of Representatives.
在这个项目结束后，我要去参加一个为一位名叫柯克·亚当斯（Kirk Adams）的人举办的筹款活动，他正在竞选美国众议院议员。
And I can assure you, I would much prefer to be watching the first round of March Madness.
我可以向你保证，我更愿意观看疯狂三月的第一轮比赛。
So if I may illustrate your point, it's the system and it's the water in which we swim.
因此，如果我可以解释一下你的观点，那就是系统和我们游泳的水。
And, as you say, I know of no one who likes it, but it is the system.
而且，正如你所说，据我所知没有人喜欢它，但它就是这个系统。
I happen to think--
我碰巧想到——
But why don't more people join you in fighting it?
但为什么没有更多的人加入你的行列呢？
That's what I don't understand.
这就是我不明白的地方。
Well, they did.
嗯，他们做到了。
We managed to get-- against all odds, we did get people.
尽管困难重重，我们还是设法找到了人。
It took a lot of hard work.
这需要付出很多努力。
Now the problem is, of course, is people are reticent to do that because they got elected under the system.
当然，现在的问题是人们不愿意这样做，因为他们是在这种制度下当选的。
So it's just fear of change?
所以这只是害怕改变？
Russ Feingold Sure.
拉斯·法因戈尔德 当然。
When you win a certain way, your people say to you, hey, this is how we do it and this is how we won.
当你以某种方式获胜时，你的员工会对你说，嘿，这就是我们的做法，这就是我们获胜的方式。
We better not mess with success.
我们最好不要破坏成功。
I think that's one of the problems in this presidential race, where not only the Republicans, but even my candidate, President Obama, has opened the door to this unlimited money through some of his people.
我认为这是这次总统竞选中的问题之一，不仅是共和党，甚至我的候选人奥巴马总统也通过他的一些人打开了获取无限资金的大门。
It's hard to get people to change something after they win that way.
在以这种方式获胜后，很难让人们做出改变。
And that's one of my worries about it.
这是我对此的担忧之一。
Former Wisconsin senator Russ Feingold and his 2002 legislative partner, Arizona Senator John McCain, with Andrea Seabrook, Alex Blumberg and Ben Calhoun.
前威斯康星州参议员 Russ Feingold 和他 2002 年的立法伙伴、亚利桑那州参议员约翰·麦凯恩 (John McCain)，以及安德里亚·西布鲁克 (Andrea Seabrook)、亚历克斯·布隆伯格 (Alex Blumberg) 和本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun)。
Senator Feingold's the author of the book, While America Sleeps.
法因戈尔德参议员是《美国沉睡时》一书的作者。
Our program was produced today by Ben Calhoun and Alex Blumberg with Sarah Koenig, Jonathan Menjivar, Lisa Pollak, Brian Reed, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
我们今天的节目由本·卡尔霍恩 (Ben Calhoun) 和亚历克斯·布隆伯格 (Alex Blumberg) 以及莎拉·科尼格 (Sarah Koenig)、乔纳森·门吉瓦 (Jonathan Menjivar)、丽莎·波拉克 (Lisa Pollak)、布莱恩·里德 (Brian Reed)、罗宾·塞米恩 (Robyn Semien)、艾丽莎·希普 (Alissa Shipp) 和南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder, Seth Lind is our production manager, Emily Condon's our office manager.
我们的高级制片人是 Julie Snyder，Seth Lind 是我们的制作经理，Emily Condon 是我们的办公室经理。
Production help from Matt Kielty.
马特·基尔蒂 (Matt Kielty) 提供制作帮助。
Music help from Damien Graef, from Rob Geddis.
Damien Graef 和 Rob Geddis 提供音乐帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] [MUSIC - "MONEY TALKS" BY THE PENGUINS]
[鸣谢] [音乐 - 企鹅乐队的“金钱万能”]
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org。
Life This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
生活《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our program by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia, who is very, very concerned about the power of the atheist lobby in Congress.
我们的老板 Torey Malatia 先生对 WBEZ 项目进行了管理监督，他非常非常担心国会中无神论游说团体的权力。
--and who knows what they'll do.
——谁知道他们会做什么。
They've got more money than God.
他们的钱比上帝还多。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。