459: What Kind of Country - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #459 | March 2, 2012 459: What Kind of Country Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 459 集 | 2012 年 3 月 2 日 459：什么样的乡村 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Nowthen, Minnesota.
序言 Ira Glass Nowthen，明尼苏达州。
Population 4,400, November.
11 月人口 4,400。
The city council met to figure out if they wanted to continue getting police protection from the county sheriff.
市议会召开会议，以确定他们是否想继续获得县治安官的警察保护。
It would cost them $105,000 for a year.
他们一年要花费 105,000 美元。
And lots of people showed up to say that they thought it was a waste of money in a rural area like theirs.
许多人到场表示，他们认为这在像他们这样的农村地区是浪费钱。
One woman got mad at the sheriff for suggesting that they needed all the police patrols and all the 911 calls they had been making.
一名妇女对警长表示他们需要所有警察巡逻和拨打所有 911 电话感到愤怒。
You list 1,300 calls per year.
您每年列出 1,300 个电话。
And you say things like, a cat in a tree.
你会说“树上的猫”之类的话。
Oh, my god, I saw a coyote.
哦，天哪，我看到了土狼。
I've got to call the police.
我得报警。
Oh my god, I saw a dog I don't know.
天哪，我看到了一条我不认识的狗。
I've got to call the police.
我得报警。
What portion of those 1,300 calls were actually crime related?
这 1,300 个电话中，哪一部分实际上与犯罪有关？
It feels like you're trying to scare us--
感觉就像你想吓唬我们——
Not at all.
一点也不。
Woman --into thinking we're in the new crime capital of the North.
女人——以为我们是在北方的新犯罪之都。
I showed you all the numbers we have.
我向你展示了我们掌握的所有数据。
I showed you the burglaries, I showed you the assaults, I showed you the thefts.
我向你展示了入室盗窃，我向你展示了袭击，我向你展示了盗窃。
I understand that.
我明白这一点。
But that adds up to less than 300.
但加起来还不到300。
So, 1,300, 300.
所以，1,300、300。
If it'll make you feel better, we have 300 crimes.
如果这能让你感觉好点的话，我们有 300 起犯罪案件。
I'm not sure where you're going.
我不确定你要去哪里。
I'm not trying to scare you.
我不是想吓唬你。
No, I'm not, I'm not.
不，我不是，我不是。
Sheriff I'm just presenting the facts.
警长 我只是陈述事实。
I'm just saying that-- Ira Glass Springfield Illinois, 2009.
我只是这么说——Ira Glass 伊利诺伊州斯普林菲尔德，2009 年。
Illinois state police do away with their new motorcycle division, thanks to budget cuts.
由于预算削减，伊利诺伊州警察撤销了新的摩托车部门。
As a result, more residents die on the road.
结果，更多的居民死在路上。
Annual highway fatalities in the state climb from the low 900s to the high 900s.
该州每年的高速公路死亡人数从低 900 人攀升至高 900 人。
That's Jonathon Monken, who ran the state police when the cuts happened.
那个人就是乔纳森·蒙肯（Jonathon Monken），在裁员发生时他负责管理州警察局。
He says that in his first three years, the motorcycle division had been a huge success, drove the number of highway deaths down to what they were in 1922.
他说，在他上任的头三年里，摩托车部门取得了巨大成功，将高速公路死亡人数降至 1922 年的水平。
I mean, a lot of people worked extremely hard to drive those numbers down.
我的意思是，很多人都非常努力地工作来降低这些数字。
And that's just frustrating when you see increases of 20, 30, 40.
当你看到 20、30、40 的增长时，这真是令人沮丧。
And obviously, when you're dealing with fatalities, increasing by one is a bad thing.
显然，当你处理死亡人数时，死亡人数增加是一件坏事。
I mean it's something that you don't want to see happen.
我的意思是这是你不希望看到发生的事情。
You would think that the very last thing that a city would cut would be police protection.
你可能会认为城市最不应该削减的就是警察保护。
That's one of the most basic things we want a government for.
这是我们希望政府做到的最基本的事情之一。
But of course, in this recession, police are on the chopping block in a way that they have not been in decades.
但当然，在这次经济衰退中，警察正以几十年来从未有过的方式陷入困境。
And beyond police, over 600,000 state and local government jobs have been slashed since 2008.
自 2008 年以来，除了警察以外，州和地方政府还有超过 60 万个职位被削减。
And at some point last year, after the showdown on whether the United States was going to raise the debt ceiling to make room for more spending, which of course, if you remember, came after one of the many regular showdowns on repealing the Bush tax cuts.
去年的某个时候，在关于美国是否会提高债务上限以腾出更多支出空间的摊牌之后，当然，如果你还记得的话，这是在废除布什减税政策的众多定期摊牌之一之后发生的。
And it came before the December showdown on payroll taxes and unemployment benefits.
而且是在 12 月份工资税和失业救济金摊牌之前。
Around that time it occurred to me that as a country we just keep having the same fight over and over again.
大约在那个时候，我突然意识到，作为一个国家，我们只是不断地进行同样的斗争。
There's one group of people who believe that the size of government is a real problem, and who think that we should have a smaller government that delivers fewer services and costs us less in taxes.
有一群人认为政府规模是一个真正的问题，他们认为我们应该有一个更小的政府，提供更少的服务并减少我们的税收成本。
And then there's another group that doesn't think that.
还有另一群人不这么认为。
Maybe they're not exactly happy with everything government does, but they are not looking for real downsizing.
也许他们对政府所做的一切并不完全满意，但他们并不寻求真正的裁员。
And these two sides just go at it, over and over, fight after fight, political cycle after political cycle.
这两方只是不断地争斗，一场又一场的战斗，一个又一个的政治周期。
And usually we don't really talk about the underlying question behind all those fights, which is, what kind of country do we want?
通常我们不会真正谈论所有这些斗争背后的根本问题，即我们想要一个什么样的国家？
Do we want a bigger, taxier United States of America, or do we want a smaller, cheaper United States of America?
我们想要一个更大、更便宜的美利坚合众国，还是想要一个更小、更便宜的美利坚合众国？
Well, today on our radio show, we bring you three stories where people not only try to answer that question, they put their answers into action in their own cities with dramatic results.
好吧，今天在我们的广播节目中，我们为您带来三个故事，人们不仅试图回答这个问题，而且在自己的城市将答案付诸行动，并取得了戏剧性的结果。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, The Sound of Sirens.
第一幕，警报声。
So let's start in one of these battlegrounds, in a state that is enacting sweeping austerity measures.
因此，让我们从这些战场之一开始，在一个正在实施全面紧缩措施的州。
Where the governor has not only held the line on taxes, he hopes to cut them further.
州长不仅控制了税收，他还希望进一步削减税收。
This is New Jersey.
这是新泽西州。
As a result of these budget cuts, the city of Trenton laid off 103 officers from its police force in September-- that's a third of their force-- with serious consequences.
由于预算削减，特伦顿市于 9 月份解雇了 103 名警察，占警察总人数的三分之一，造成了严重后果。
Sarah Koenig visited them.
莎拉·柯尼格拜访了他们。
One great thing, maybe the only great thing, about the budget cuts in Trenton, is that you can park anywhere and not get a ticket.
关于特伦顿的预算削减，一件伟大的事情，也许是唯一一件伟大的事情，就是你可以在任何地方停车而无需买票。
I parked in illegal spots.
我把车停在非法停车位。
I ignored meters, even parked directly in front of City Hall three different times.
我无视仪表，甚至三次把车直接停在市政厅前。
And I was fine.
我很好。
Thieves, drug dealers, carjackers.
小偷、毒贩、劫车犯。
Apparently they've sensed the same thing.
显然，他们也感受到了同样的事情。
That maybe no one's minding the store.
也许没有人介意这家商店。
17 robberies for this week.
本周发生 17 起抢劫案。
Out of control.
失控。
This is Sergeant Mark Kieffer of the Trenton PD.
我是特伦顿警察局的马克·基弗中士。
He's been a cop for 16 years.
他当警察已经16年了。
His father was a cop.
他的父亲是一名警察。
He clicked through some recent crime stats on his computer.
他在电脑上点击了一些最近的犯罪统计数据。
We're having anywhere from 15 to 20 robberies a week.
我们每周都会发生 15 到 20 起抢劫案。
We used to have five robberies a week.
我们过去每周发生五起抢劫案。
We used to have eight detectives in the robbery unit.
我们的抢劫组过去有八名侦探。
Now all we have is two there.
现在我们只有两个了。
It seems that if you get rid of one third of your police force, crime tends to go up.
似乎如果你裁掉三分之一的警察队伍，犯罪率就会上升。
Most alarming to Kieffer, the shootings.
最令基弗震惊的是枪击事件。
In 30-- what's it today, the seventh?
30 号——今天是什么日子，七号？
So in 38 days, we had 32 people shot.
所以在 38 天内，我们有 32 人被枪杀。
We just had two people shot yesterday.
昨天我们刚刚有两个人被枪杀。
I'm talking 32 people hit.
我说的是32人被击中。
That doesn't happen like that.
事实并非如此。
Usually, what's it usually?
通常，通常是什么？
Mark Kieffer Maybe once a week you get a shooting.
马克·基弗 也许每周都会有一次枪击事件。
Yeah.
是的。
Once a week.
每周一次。
Not every day.
不是每天。
From January, 2011 to January 2012, gun assaults are up 76% in Trenton.
从 2011 年 1 月到 2012 年 1 月，特伦顿的枪支袭击事件增加了 76%。
Robberies with a firearm are up 55%.
持枪抢劫增加了 55%。
Car thefts more than doubled.
汽车盗窃案增加了一倍多。
Break-ins more than tripled.
入室盗窃增加了两倍多。
The Trenton Police Department no longer investigates thefts, including motor vehicle thefts.
特伦顿警察局不再调查盗窃案，包括机动车辆盗窃案。
They also got rid of their domestic violence unit.
他们还解散了家庭暴力部门。
Back before the cuts, the Trenton Police were holding crime at bay.
早在裁员之前，特伦顿警方就一直在遏制犯罪。
It still wasn't great.
情况仍然不太好。
For a city of 80,000 people, Trenton had a pretty high rate of violent crime.
对于一个拥有 80,000 人口的城市来说，特伦顿的暴力犯罪率相当高。
But other crimes were decreasing.
但其他犯罪行为正在减少。
Now the cops are losing ground.
现在警察正在节节败退。
And average people are feeling it, and not just in a "I read it in the newspaper" kind of way either.
普通人也能感受到这一点，而且不仅仅是“我在报纸上读到的”这种方式。
Almost everyone I talked to in Trenton had a crime story about someone they knew or about themselves.
我在特伦顿采访过的几乎每个人都有一个关于他们认识的人或他们自己的犯罪故事。
The other day-- did you hear about the shooting last week?
前几天——你听说上周的枪击事件了吗？
Well, I was there.
嗯，我当时就在那里。
You know what happened to me, don't you?
你知道我发生了什么事，不是吗？
That's a guy named Richard who didn't want to give his last name.
那个人名叫理查德，他不愿透露自己的姓氏。
What happened?
发生了什么？
What happened?
发生了什么？
Richard We had to dive out in the street over here when he went by.
理查德 当他经过时我们不得不跳到这里的街道上。
I hit my head on the curb.
我的头撞到了路边。
Richard's lived on this block for 50 years, and nothing like that had ever happened to him before.
理查德在这个街区住了 50 年，以前从没有发生过这样的事。
One guy told me a bullet went through his office window, right where he sits.
一个人告诉我，一颗子弹穿过他办公室的窗户，就在他坐的地方。
Another told me about a woman he was chatting with at the bank, who told him she'd just been mugged, at 10:00 in the morning.
另一个人告诉我，他在银行与一位女士聊天，她告诉他她刚刚在上午 10:00 被抢劫。
Another told me about a fatal shooting on Route 29.
另一个人告诉我 29 号公路上发生了一起致命枪击事件。
And then he told me the guy who was killed was his brother.
然后他告诉我被杀的人是他的兄弟。
I heard this stuff in the so-so neighborhoods, and I heard it in the good neighborhoods.
我在一般的社区听到过这种事，在好的社区也听到过。
Didn't matter.
没关系。
There's been muggings, and there's been shootings.
发生过抢劫，也发生过枪击事件。
Right here?
就在这里吗？
Marge Caldwell-wilson There's been break-ins.
玛吉·考德威尔-威尔逊 发生过入室盗窃事件。
Yes.
是的。
That's Marge Caldwell-Wilson, a Trenton city councilwoman.
那是特伦顿市议员玛吉·考德威尔-威尔逊。
We had a rash of burglaries.
我们发生了一连串入室盗窃案。
During the day while people were home they were stealing copper downspouts and running down the street as the neighbors were yelling at them.
白天，当人们在家时，他们偷了铜落水管，然后沿着街道跑，邻居们对他们大喊大叫。
So that's how brazen things are happening.
这就是厚颜无耻的事情正在发生的方式。
In this neighborhood that was happening?
就在这个街区发生了这样的事吗？
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Sarah Koenig I keep asking if she's talking about her neighborhood, because her neighborhood is beautiful.
Sarah Koenig 我一直问她是否在谈论她的社区，因为她的社区很漂亮。
Historic Victorian townhouses, lovely clean streets.
历史悠久的维多利亚联排别墅，可爱干净的街道。
I saw a Volvo station wagon parked across from Marge's house, two car seats in back, a New Yorker magazine in the passenger seat.
我看到一辆沃尔沃旅行车停在玛吉家对面，后面有两个汽车座椅，乘客座位上有一本《纽约客》杂志。
And this isn't just happening in Trenton, which was the last city in New Jersey to lay off police, by the way.
顺便说一句，这种情况不仅仅发生在特伦顿，这是新泽西州最后一个解雇警察的城市。
Camden lost 168 cops.
卡姆登失去了 168 名警察。
Atlantic City, 60.
大西洋城，60。
Patterson, 125.
帕特森，125。
Newark, 167.
纽瓦克，167。
According to New Jersey governor Chris Christie, all these cuts are due to a clear culprit.
新泽西州州长克里斯·克里斯蒂表示，所有这些削减都是由一个明显的罪魁祸首造成的。
Runaway salary costs.
工资成本失控。
Three out of every four dollars that are spent now in any municipality or county is spent on labor costs.
现在在任何市或县花费的每四美元中就有三美元用于劳动力成本。
We can't afford it anymore.
我们再也买不起了。
Since he took office in 2010, Christie has wrestled New Jersey's finances into submission, largely by facing down the state's public sector unions.
自 2010 年上任以来，克里斯蒂主要通过压制该州公共部门工会，努力让新泽西州的财政屈服。
Cushy contracts for teachers and cops, millions paid out in unused sick days, Cadillac health plans, birthdays off with pay.
为教师和警察提供轻松的合同，在未使用的病假中支付数百万美元，凯迪拉克健康计划，生日带薪休假。
Outrageous, he said.
太令人愤慨了，他说。
This is Christie at a VFW in Middletown, New Jersey last year, when a cop in the audience complained about having to pay more for his health care.
这是克里斯蒂去年在新泽西州米德尔敦的一家 VFW 现场，当时观众中的一名警察抱怨他必须为自己支付更多的医疗费用。
My answer to you is, it stinks.
我对你的回答是，很臭。
But it's reality.
但这是现实。
And no one can be shielded from this reality anymore.
没有人能够再逃避这一现实。
Not police officers, not firefighters, not teachers.
不是警察，不是消防员，不是老师。
We have to reorient our expectations here.
我们必须在这里重新调整我们的期望。
This is not 10 years ago.
这已经不是10年前了。
This is not a booming economy with 5% and 6% and 7% growth.
这并不是一个5%、6%和7%增长的繁荣经济。
We cannot afford this stuff anymore.
我们再也买不起这些东西了。
We can't.
我们不能。
Hence the police layoffs.
于是警察就裁员了。
Thousands of them.
其中有数千人。
As Christie calls it, the new reality.
正如克里斯蒂所说，新现实。
Trenton's new reality is that before Christie took office, the city received $36 million in what was called special aid to struggling municipalities.
特伦顿的新现实是，在克里斯蒂上任之前，该市获得了 3600 万美元的所谓特别援助，以帮助陷入困境的城市。
This year, Trenton's getting $22 million.
今年，特伦顿获得了 2200 万美元。
And that aid has been re-branded.
该援助已被重新命名。
It's now called transitional aid.
现在称为过渡援助。
The idea being that cities eventually will wean themselves off it.
这个想法是城市最终会摆脱它。
Next year Trenton stands to get less.
明年特伦顿的收入将会减少。
But a few days in Trenton makes you wonder if this new reality is tenable.
但在特伦顿的几天会让你怀疑这个新的现实是否站得住脚。
Can the city even function like this?
城市还能这样运作吗？
Listening audience, I think smaller government is a myth.
听众们，我认为小政府是一个神话。
This is a guy named Michael Walker.
这是一个名叫迈克尔·沃克的人。
He's not an elected official or think tank guy.
他不是民选官员或智囊团成员。
He's not a businessman.
他不是商人。
He's a regular working-stiff taxpayer in the city of Trenton who's going out of his mind with frustration.
他是特伦顿市一名勤奋工作的普通纳税人，他因沮丧而失去了理智。
And I think anyone who gets up there and tells you we're going to shrink the size of government, I think they're crazy.
我认为任何站在那里告诉你我们要缩小政府规模的人都疯了。
They're crazy.
他们疯了。
We have a hobbled police department that cannot keep up with the level of crime that is going on in our streets.
我们的警察部门步履蹒跚，无法跟上街道上发生的犯罪率。
We have a Department of Inspections that cannot keep up with the level of requests for plan reviews and for permits.
我们的检查部门无法跟上计划审查和许可证请求的水平。
We have a Public Works Department that cannot keep up with the filth that piles up in our city.
我们的公共工程部门无法应对城市中堆积的污物。
He's become one of the most eloquent and loudest voices criticizing the state of affairs in Trenton, especially the police cuts.
他已成为批评特伦顿事态，尤其是警察削减开支的最雄辩、最响亮的声音之一。
In the past few months he started a blog, published an editorial in the local paper, where he's also quoted pretty regularly.
在过去的几个月里，他开设了一个博客，在当地报纸上发表了一篇社论，他的言论也经常被当地报纸引用。
I first saw him on YouTube back in September.
我第一次见到他是在 9 月份的 YouTube 上。
That's when the city announced the police layoffs.
就在那时，该市宣布裁员。
And when Michael did something he's never done before.
当迈克尔做了一些他以前从未做过的事情时。
In a baggy black t-shirt, he went to City Hall for a council meeting, and delivered a speech that had people laughing and clapping.
他穿着一件宽松的黑色T恤，前往市政厅参加议会会议，并发表演讲，引起人们的笑声和鼓掌。
And he said something that's practically heresy in New Jersey, or really, anywhere else.
他所说的话在新泽西州或其他任何地方实际上都是异端邪说。
And to be honest with you, I'd be willing to pay more taxes.
老实说，我愿意缴纳更多税。
And I know that this is not sustainable.
我知道这是不可持续的。
I'm willing to pay more, because--
我愿意付出更多，因为——
I'd be willing to pay more taxes.
我愿意缴纳更多的税。
In Trenton, to hire back 100 cops would cost about $5 million.
在特伦顿，重新雇佣 100 名警察大约需要花费 500 万美元。
So if your house is valued at, say, $100,000, it would cost you another $340 on your tax bill.
因此，如果您的房屋价值为 100,000 美元，那么您的税单将另外花费 340 美元。
Happy to pay it.
很高兴付钱。
Sarah Koenig That's Michael again.
莎拉·柯尼格 又是迈克尔。
We talked in his car while we were driving to his house.
当我们开车去他家时，我们在他的车里聊天。
Keep in mind, he's not a rich guy with money to spare.
请记住，他不是一个有闲钱的富人。
He made $34,000 last year.
他去年赚了 34,000 美元。
Really?
真的吗？
Michael Walker Happy to pay.
迈克尔·沃克很乐意付款。
$340 is nothing.
340美元不算什么。
Do you know what we're paying for basic cable?
您知道我们为基本有线电视支付的费用吗？
It's crazy.
太疯狂了。
I mean, I'm not kidding you.
我是说，我不是在开玩笑。
Do you know what I'm paying for my cell phone bill every month?
你知道我每个月的手机话费是多少吗？
And do I really need to be getting minute by minute alerts through Facebook?
我真的需要通过 Facebook 获取每分钟的提醒吗？
This is a small price to pay to get more cops on.
为了吸引更多警察，这是一个很小的代价。
Yes, taxes are too high.
是的，税收太高了。
But taxes are too high for a variety of reasons.
但由于多种原因，税收过高。
Because the money is not being used properly.
因为钱没有被正确使用。
But if the mayor said, look, this tax increase is designed to bring back all of the cops that we laid off, I'm all for it.
但如果市长说，看，这次增税是为了让我们解雇的所有警察都回来，我完全赞成。
In a heartbeat.
一瞬间。
Matter of fact, I'll send him a check for $350 now.
事实上，我现在就寄给他一张 350 美元的支票。
Well, but nobody's suggesting this.
好吧，但没有人建议这样做。
Right?
正确的？
No one.
没有人。
No one has the balls to suggest an additional tax increase to bring back the cops.
没有人有胆量建议额外增税来让警察回来。
Is raising taxes an option to try to pay for those extra cops, to try to raise that $5 million?
提高税收是支付额外警察费用、筹集 500 万美元的一种选择吗？
This is Marge Caldwell-Wilson again, the city council member.
我又是玛吉·考德威尔-威尔逊，市议会成员。
The tax base in this city is so small that the burden on the taxpayers is huge.
这个城市的税基很小，纳税人的负担却很大。
And we cannot, we cannot increase property taxes any more.
我们不能、不能再增加财产税。
Not only will we drive people out of the city and shrink the tax base even more, but it would drive businesses out of the city.
我们不仅会把人们赶出城市，进一步缩小税基，还会把企业赶出城市。
And we are at the point right now where we're bleeding, and we can't afford to run anybody else out of town.
我们现在正处于流血的地步，我们不能把其他人赶出城。
Trenton Mayor Tony Mack said much the same thing when I asked him.
当我问特伦顿市长托尼·麦克时，他也说了同样的话。
No. No. I mean, I think people are taxed out.
不，不，我的意思是，我认为人们被征税了。
When I go out and I speak to residents, and a lot of them are on fixed incomes or senior citizens, and they're just plain and simple saying, "Mayor, I cannot afford another tax increase.
当我出去与居民交谈时，他们中的很多人都是固定收入或老年人，他们只是简单地说：“市长，我负担不起再次加税。
I cannot afford to pay higher taxes." And I understand.
我无力支付更高的税款。”我明白了。
The city of Trenton, like all cities and towns in New Jersey, has only one tax it can levy, only one way to raise big money.
特伦顿市与新泽西州的所有城镇一样，只能征收一种税，只有一种筹集大笔资金的方式。
Property taxes.
财产税。
There are no local sales or income taxes in New Jersey, just property taxes.
新泽西州没有地方销售税或所得税，只有财产税。
The highest in the nation.
全国最高。
The average New Jersey household spends nearly triple the national average on property taxes, which are regressive, by the way.
顺便说一句，新泽西州家庭平均在财产税上的支出几乎是全国平均水平的三倍，而且财产税是累退的。
They hit middle class and poor people hardest.
他们对中产阶级和穷人的打击最为严重。
In Trenton since 2005, the average tax bill has gone up by 42%.
自 2005 年以来，特伦顿的平均税费上涨了 42%。
Obviously no one in Trenton wants to pay higher taxes.
显然特伦顿没有人愿意缴纳更高的税。
On the other hand, it's hard to imagine anything getting better with this amount of crime.
另一方面，很难想象在如此大量的犯罪情况下会有什么好转。
Who's going to move here, invest here, open a business here?
谁会搬到这里、在这里投资、在这里开办企业？
So I asked a couple dozen people, would they be willing to pay the extra, say, $340 in property taxes if it meant hiring 100 more cops?
所以我问了几十个人，如果这意味着多雇用 100 名警察，他们是否愿意支付额外的财产税，比如 340 美元？
Their answers were all over the map.
他们的答案五花八门。
There were the absolute yeses.
答案是肯定的。
It's worth it.
这是值得的。
It's worth $300 and more.
它价值 300 美元甚至更多。
I mean, when you can live and just go to sleep at night, and be safe and comfortable.
我的意思是，当你可以生活并在晚上睡觉时，并且安全舒适。
And yeses with conditions.
是的，有条件。
Man 2 I would be willing to pay higher taxes for police officers who were willing to live in Trenton.
男人 2 我愿意为愿意住在特伦顿的警察缴纳更高的税。
Stop whining about the dangerous job they do.
别再抱怨他们所做的危险工作了。
They knew it when they took the job.
他们接手这份工作时就知道这一点。
Yeah.
是的。
Then I might consider higher taxes.
那么我可能会考虑提高税收。
Then there were the absolute nos.
然后是绝对不行。
Would you be willing?
你愿意吗？
And I think these police officers, I think they're rude.
我认为这些警察很粗鲁。
They're ignorant.
他们很无知。
They're not friendly.
他们不友好。
Do you know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
There were nos that went one step further.
没有人更进一步。
No. I feel that they should burn the city down and start over again.
不，我觉得他们应该烧毁这座城市并重新开始。
That's the way I feel.
这就是我的感觉。
And there were the good natured nos, who were legitimately baffled.
还有一些好心的反对者，他们理所当然地感到困惑。
No. Because what are they doing with the taxes we pay now?
不。因为他们用我们现在缴纳的税款做什么？
That's John Mastoras, who owns a popular 24-hour diner in Trenton.
他就是约翰·马斯托拉斯 (John Mastoras)，他在特伦顿拥有一家颇受欢迎的 24 小时餐厅。
The day after I left town, a guy with a gun tried to mug one of his bus boys right outside the front door.
我离开小镇的第二天，一个拿着枪的家伙试图在前门外抢劫他的一个公交车男孩。
Back when he bought the business five years ago, his property taxes were around $5,700.
五年前，当他购买这家公司时，他的财产税约为 5,700 美元。
And Trenton could afford the cops back then.
那时特伦顿负担得起警察的费用。
Now he pays nearly $11,000, and suddenly Trenton can't afford them.
现在他支付了近 11,000 美元，突然间特伦顿就买不起了。
I mean, like I said, before, five years ago, used to pay almost half the amount of the tax we pay now, and they have those cops.
我的意思是，就像我说的，五年前，我们支付的税款几乎是我们现在支付的一半，而且他们有那些警察。
Now we pay double and they don't have those cops.
现在我们付双倍的钱，但他们没有那些警察。
So what did they do with the money?
那么他们用这些钱做了什么呢？
Which leads me to the most common answer I heard.
这让我想到了我听到的最常见的答案。
Yes, I would pay more taxes, if I knew it would actually improve the city and make it safer.
是的，如果我知道这实际上会改善城市并使其更安全，我会缴纳更多税。
But I don't know that.
但我不知道。
If I could pay to-- Yeah.
如果我能付钱给—— 是的。
I would pay higher taxes if I could have more police and I could have a better school system.
如果我可以有更多的警察并且可以有更好的学校系统，我会缴纳更高的税。
But if I can't have either one of those things, then why should I continue to live here?
但如果我不能拥有其中任何一件，那我为什么还要继续住在这里呢？
And I have thought about moving.
我也想过搬家。
And that's my plan for 2013 is to sell my house.
我 2013 年的计划是卖掉我的房子。
This is Talaya Stevens.
这是塔拉亚·史蒂文斯。
She's a social worker for the state.
她是国家的社会工作者。
Young, professional, a parent, a homeowner.
年轻，专业，为人父母，为人父母。
The very taxpayer Trenton officials are worried they'll scare off.
特伦顿的纳税人官员也担心他们会被吓跑。
They're right to worry.
他们的担心是对的。
If I paid another $1,000, I could live in Lawrenceville, I could live in Ewing, because their taxes are just as high.
如果我再付 1,000 美元，我可以住在劳伦斯维尔，我可以住在尤因，因为他们的税同样高。
And I could get a better school district.
而且我可以获得更好的学区。
Right outside of Trenton.
就在特伦顿外面。
Sarah Koenig Now, people always complain about their government.
莎拉·科尼格 现在，人们总是抱怨他们的政府。
Right?
正确的？
They always say they don't trust them to spend their hard earned tax money.
他们总是说不相信他们会花掉辛苦挣来的税款。
That there's too much waste, too much incompetence.
浪费太多，无能太多。
But in this case, they're justified.
但在这种情况下，他们是有道理的。
One state official characterized Trenton as the most mismanaged municipality in the entire state.
一位州官员将特伦顿描述为全州管理最不善的城市。
And not by a little.
而且不是一点点。
By a lot.
很多。
The dysfunction in Trenton, a mountain of blame for it, is laid on Mayor Tony Mack.
特伦顿的功能失调，市长托尼·麦克应承担大量责任。
Everyone I talked to said the mayor was either not up to the job, or making things worse.
我采访过的每个人都说市长要么不能胜任这份工作，要么让事情变得更糟。
That he fired good people and hired terrible ones.
他解雇了好人，雇用了糟糕的人。
His deputy mayor and chief of staff was arrested trying to buy heroin after just seven weeks on the job.
他的副市长兼幕僚长上任仅七周后就因购买海洛因被捕。
Mack's half brother, who worked at the water plant, was caught stealing city materials.
麦克同父异母的兄弟在水厂工作，因偷窃城市材料而被捕。
He's about to go to jail.
他快要进监狱了。
His housing director quit after it came out that he had a theft conviction.
在他犯有盗窃罪后，他的住房主管辞职了。
The list goes on.
这样的例子还在继续。
The list really does go on.
这个清单确实不胜枚举。
This is the worst I've seen the city, ever.
这是我见过的最糟糕的城市。
Ever.
曾经。
Ever.
曾经。
The worst.
最糟糕的。
This is Tracey Syphax, effects of a successful real estate developer.
这是特蕾西·西法克斯 (Tracey Syphax)，一位成功的房地产开发商的后裔。
And he'd happily pay more property taxes to hire more cops.
他很乐意缴纳更多的财产税来雇用更多的警察。
But not while this mayor's in charge.
但在这位市长执政期间就不会了。
I hear all the time people saying, 'Well, the governor should give this mayor the money he needs." Who would do that, when you have a mayor that has had four police directors in two years?
我总是听到人们说，‘好吧，州长应该给这位市长他需要的钱。’当你的市长在两年内换了四位警察局长时，谁会这么做呢？
Eight business administrators in two years.
两年内有八位企业管理员。
Two law directors in two years.
两年内两名法律总监。
I mean, who would give money to that?
我的意思是，谁愿意出钱呢？
That's like me giving money to my five-year-old granddaughter, and expecting her to do the right thing with it.
这就像我把钱给我五岁的孙女，并期望她用它做正确的事。
So that's it.
就是这样。
Trenton isn't going to get more money from taxpayers.
特伦顿不会从纳税人那里得到更多的钱。
It's not going to get more money from the state.
它不会从国家获得更多的钱。
Crime is rising, and now there's talk of closing fire stations.
犯罪率不断上升，现在有人讨论关闭消防站。
And people in Trenton have no confidence their government can stop this downward spiral.
特伦顿人民对政府能够阻止这种恶性循环没有信心。
And you can understand why.
你可以理解为什么。
So they lock their doors, pull the shades, maybe turn on cable.
所以他们锁上门，拉上窗帘，也许打开电缆。
Which, for say, $159 a month, would pay for about 600 more cops in Trenton.
比如说，每月 159 美元，可以支付特伦顿大约 600 名警察的费用。
Sarah Koenig is one of the producers of our show.
莎拉·科尼格是我们节目的制片人之一。
Act Two, Dream Come True.
第二幕，梦想成真。
So we now live in a world where the idea of raising taxes simply will not be considered in most American communities, even in places where taxes are much lower than they are in New Jersey.
因此，我们现在生活在这样一个世界：大多数美国社区根本不会考虑增税的想法，即使是在税收比新泽西低得多的地方。
And the one person who arguably did the most to get us here, who created the political reality that you and I and President Obama are all living in today, is Grover Norquist.
格罗弗·诺奎斯特（Grover Norquist）可以说是为我们走到这一步做出了最大贡献的人，他创造了你、我和奥巴马总统今天所生活的政治现实。
Each Wednesday, he holds a meeting where dozens of conservative political groups come together and share their plans.
每个星期三，他都会召开一次会议，数十个保守派政治团体聚集在一起分享他们的计划。
He created his own group, Americans for Tax Reform, in 1985.
1985 年，他创建了自己的组织“美国人支持税制改革”。
A year later came his biggest and most successful invention.
一年后，他最大、最成功的发明诞生了。
He started asking every Republican running for national and statewide office to sign a pledge never to increase taxes.
他开始要求每一位竞选全国和全州公职的共和党人签署一份永不增税的承诺。
At this point it's just what you do as a Republican candidate.
在这一点上，这正是你作为共和党候选人所做的事情。
Such a given that even a fake candidate like Stephen Colbert, four years ago, when he decided to run for president, he started by having Norquist on his show and signing the pledge.
即使是像斯蒂芬·科尔伯特这样的假候选人，四年前，当他决定竞选总统时，他首先让诺奎斯特参加他的节目并签署承诺书。
Here we go.
我们开始吧。
"I, Stephen Colbert, pledge to the taxpayers of the United States of America that I will, one, oppose any and all efforts to increase the marginal income tax rates for individuals and or businesses, and two, oppose any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates." I have no problem signing that, sir, because I don't know what any of that means.
“我，史蒂芬·科尔伯特，向美利坚合众国的纳税人保证，我将：第一，反对任何提高个人和/或企业边际所得税率的努力；第二，反对任何净减少或取消扣除和抵免的行为，除非通过进一步降低税率来实现同等水平。”先生，我签字没有问题，因为我不知道这意味着什么。
Thank you so much, Grover Norquist.
非常感谢你，格罗弗·诺奎斯特。
Holding the line on taxes, preventing lawmakers from approving new taxes, Grover Norquist told me, is a way to advance his bigger goal, to reduce the size of government.
格罗弗·诺奎斯特告诉我，坚守税收底线、阻止立法者批准新税收，是实现他缩小政府规模这一更大目标的一种方式。
As long as tax increases are even part of the national conversation or state conversation or city conversation, you never have a conversation about reforming government.
只要增税甚至是全国谈话、州谈话或城市谈话的一部分，你就永远不会谈论政府改革。
It's when you say taxes will not be raised that you then look around and go, do we have to do everything we've been doing?
当你说不会加税时，你就会环顾四周，我们是否必须做我们一直在做的一切？
Do we have to do it the way we've been doing it?
我们必须像以前那样做吗？
This, of course, is exactly what lawmakers at the federal, state and local level have been doing for most of this past year.
当然，这正是联邦、州和地方各级立法者在过去一年的大部分时间里一直在做的事情。
They are living out the scenario that Grover Norquist envisioned years ago, to squeeze the size of government.
他们正在实现格罗弗·诺奎斯特多年前设想的情景，即压缩政府规模。
The most famous thing Norquist ever said was that he wanted the federal government so small that you could drown it in a bathtub.
诺奎斯特说过的最著名的一句话是，他希望联邦政府小到可以淹死在浴缸里。
But at some point in the 1990s, he named a more achievable goal-- half.
但在 20 世纪 90 年代的某个时候，他提出了一个更容易实现的目标——一半。
He wanted the federal government to be half the size it was.
他希望联邦政府的规模只有原来的一半。
And over the course of the Clinton administration, he says, with Republicans in the house, we seemed to be on our way.
他说，在克林顿执政期间，共和党人入主白宫，我们似乎正在走上正轨。
The federal government shrank significantly.
联邦政府大幅缩水。
You've said in the past that your goal is to cut the federal government by half.
您过去曾说过，您的目标是将联邦政府削减一半。
Is that still your goal?
这仍然是你的目标吗？
Sure.
当然。
Let's make a list of things that the government's doing today that make the world a worse off place, and stop those, for starters.
首先，让我们列出政府正在做的让世界变得更糟的事情，并停止这些事情。
And then what would that be?
那会是什么？
Like, what would you do away with?
就像，你会做什么？
Like would you get rid of all entitlements?
就像你会取消所有权利吗？
What would you do?
你会怎么办？
What does it mean?
这是什么意思？
I'm in favor of reforming government to become smaller rather than some sort of procrustean bed where you chop off people's toes to make people fit in the bed.
我赞成改革政府，让政府变得更小，而不是搞某种普罗克斯特式的床，砍掉人们的脚趾，让人们能睡在床上。
And frankly, I think if you talk about reforming government, Utah just passed a law.
坦率地说，我认为如果你谈论政府改革，犹他州刚刚通过了一项法律。
And the law says, all new hires, state and local government in Utah, will have a defined contribution pension, a 401(k).
法律规定，犹他州州和地方政府的所有新员工都将享有固定缴款养老金，即 401(k)。
Here's your pay, here's 10% of your pay to go into a 401(k).
这是您的工资，这是用于 401(k) 的工资的 10%。
12% if you're a policeman or fireman and are expected to retire earlier.
如果您是警察或消防员并且预计提前退休，则为 12%。
Are you following this?
你在关注这个吗？
In other words, instead of a state-run pension plan, the state puts 10% to 12% of your salary into a personal retirement account for you.
换句话说，国家不是将你的工资的10%到12%存入你的个人退休账户，而是将你的工资存入个人退休账户。
An account that's yours.
一个属于你的帐户。
That you control.
由你掌控。
A 401(k) like lots of people have already.
很多人已经有 401(k) 了。
And there's no Ponzi scheme.
而且不存在庞氏骗局。
Almost all of the state and local pensions are out of whack.
几乎所有的州和地方养老金都出现了问题。
The money's not there to pay people as it was promised.
钱并没有像承诺的那样支付给人们。
If you moved all government-run pensions to defined contribution, you would dramatically reduce the unfunded liabilities of state and local government, which are eating up more and more of state and local budgets.
如果将所有政府管理的养老金转为固定缴款，就会大大减少州和地方政府的无资金准备负债，这些负债正在消耗越来越多的州和地方预算。
OK, I don't know if you noticed what he just did there.
好吧，我不知道你是否注意到他刚才在那里做了什么。
When I asked him what he would get rid of to shrink the government to half of its size, he launched into describing this very sensible sounding reform that's going on in Utah.
当我问他要放弃什么才能将政府规模缩小一半时，他开始描述犹他州正在进行的这项听起来非常明智的改革。
He did this over and over.
他一遍又一遍地这样做。
I asked him four times.
我问了他四次。
Spent 17 minutes of our 45 minute interview trying to get him to give me a list of cuts which he never gave me.
我们在 45 分钟的采访中花了 17 分钟试图让他给我一份他从未给过我的剪辑清单。
Can I ask you, do you feel hesitant to get into sketching out a picture of, like, here's what the government looks like when it's radically smaller?
我能问你，你是否会犹豫是否要勾勒出一幅图画，比如，这就是政府规模小得多时的样子？
Because it alarms people, like, when you sketch that out.
因为当你把它勾勒出来时，它会让人们感到震惊。
And it's better to talk about, here are some concrete things we can do that everyone would agree on.
最好是谈论一下，这里有一些我们可以做的、每个人都会同意的具体事情。
Well, I think you want to talk about things one at a time so that it's clear.
嗯，我认为你想一次只谈论一件事情，这样事情就清楚了。
We're not talking about doing some sort of mad experiment.
我们不是在谈论做某种疯狂的实验。
We're talking about taking a look at things that have worked in other states and giving people options.
我们正在讨论的是研究在其他州行之有效的做法并为人们提供选择。
Later I talked to another small government guy, Len Gilroy, the head of government reform at the Reason Foundation.
后来我与另一位政府小人物交谈，他是理性基金会政府改革负责人伦·吉尔罗伊(Len Gilroy)。
And he said to me that this isn't evasiveness.
他对我说，这不是回避。
He said that, as a practical matter, voters do not want to take a big axe to social security or Medicare or other popular programs.
他说，实际上，选民不想大幅削减社会保障、医疗保险或其他受欢迎的计划。
So why even speculate about a world where that could happen?
那么为什么要猜测一个可能发生这种情况的世界呢？
He said guys like him and Norquist don't have a secret list of government budget cuts in their back pocket.
他说，像他和诺奎斯特这样的人的口袋里并没有政府预算削减的秘密清单。
What they have is a list of reforms, like this law in Utah that would make government cheaper.
他们所拥有的是一系列改革，例如犹他州的这项法律，该法律将使政府成本降低。
Some of that stuff, like the Utah law, seems market tested to sound reasonable to most people.
其中一些东西，比如犹他州的法律，似乎经过市场测试，对大多数人来说听起来是合理的。
Other stuff, like breaking the backs of public sector unions, which Grover Norquist can go on and on about, is as divisive as it gets.
其他的事情，比如格罗弗·诺奎斯特可以喋喋不休地谈论公共部门工会的问题，也是引起分歧的。
The best way to reform the cost of government is what Scott Walker did in Wisconsin, which was to undo tenure.
改革政府成本的最佳方法是斯科特·沃克在威斯康星州所做的，即取消终身教职。
Here's something that might surprise you.
这里有一些可能会让您感到惊讶的事情。
Our nation's current mania for cutting the size of government, keeping taxes low, is coming at a moment when our tax rates are, in fact, at one of the lowest levels in the last 70 years.
我们国家目前对削减政府规模、保持低税收的热潮正值我们的税率实际上处于过去 70 年来最低水平之一的时候。
The top personal income tax bracket paid over 80% of its income in the 1950s and '60s to the government, 70% when Ronald Reagan took office, 39% at the end of the Clinton years.
20世纪50年代和60年代，个人所得税最高阶层将其收入的80%以上缴纳给政府，罗纳德·里根上任时为70%，克林顿时代末期为39%。
Now it is 35%, with lower tax brackets paying less, of course.
现在是 35%，当然，税级较低的人支付的费用也较少。
Our taxes make up a smaller portion of the gross domestic product than taxes in most industrialized countries.
与大多数工业化国家相比，我们的税收占国内生产总值的比例较小。
When you look at it this way, it can seem very strange that this is a time when politicians are so unwilling to raise taxes, with all kinds of unintended consequences to that everywhere.
当你这样看时，你会发现，现在政客们如此不愿意增税，这似乎很奇怪，到处都带来了各种意想不到的后果。
Can I ask you to talk about just the messiness of what's happening around the country as people are cutting budgets.
我可以请你谈谈人们削减预算时全国各地发生的混乱情况吗？
So for example, in New Jersey, we have these cities, Camden, Trenton, Newark, where in order to make their budgets work now without raising taxes, they're cutting huge percentages of the police forces.
例如，在新泽西州，卡姆登、特伦顿、纽瓦克这些城市，为了在不提高税收的情况下使预算发挥作用，他们正在大幅削减警察部队。
And crime is going up.
犯罪率正在上升。
When you see that, when you hear about that, do you just feel like, OK, well, this is just the clumsy first steps of something?
当你看到这一点，当你听到这一点时，你是否只是觉得，好吧，这只是某件事的笨拙的第一步？
What is your take on that?
您对此有何看法？
When you try and cut the size of government without reforming it, you have serious challenges.
当你试图削减政府规模而不进行改革时，你将面临严峻的挑战。
In New Jersey, the examples you used, organized labor in the public sector is very strong.
在新泽西州，你所使用的例子中，公共部门的劳工组织非常强大。
And so you can't come in and say, could we work different hours or different days?
所以你不能进来说，我们可以不同的时间或不同的日子工作吗？
Or how about that we lay off the 10% incompetent guys on the police force?
或者我们解雇警察队伍中 10% 的无能人员怎么样？
No, you lay off the most recently hired guys who may be the most competent.
不，你解雇了最近雇用的可能最有能力的人。
In fact, this is exactly what happened in Trenton.
事实上，这正是特伦顿发生的事情。
They fired all the younger cops and filled their slots by demoting 2/3 of their supervisors.
他们解雇了所有年轻警察，并通过降职 2/3 的主管来填补空缺。
It was pretty ham-fisted.
这是相当笨拙的。
Here's just how ambitious Norquist is.
诺奎斯特的雄心由此可见一斑。
Back in the 1990s, with Bill Clinton in the White House and Republicans in the House of Representatives, the goal that Norquist and his allies set for themselves could not have been bigger.
早在 20 世纪 90 年代，比尔·克林顿 (Bill Clinton) 入主白宫，共和党入主众议院时，诺奎斯特和他的盟友为自己设定的目标再大不过了。
To completely realign the politics of the United States.
彻底重组美国政治。
To use their skills with talking points and issues and candidates to push the entire country towards a solid majority that would vote for smaller government and lower taxes.
利用他们在谈话要点、问题和候选人方面的技能，推动整个国家获得绝对多数票，投票支持更小的政府和更低的税收。
A great article about Norquist in The New Yorker in 2005 ends with Norquist running into somebody who he knows on the street, who asks him, "How's it going?" Norquist replies-- and this does not seem like a brag but just a statement of fact the way he says it-- "We're winning." When I interviewed him at his office two weeks ago, he said this past year, he has definitely been feeling that same way.
2005 年，《纽约客》发表了一篇关于诺奎斯特的精彩文章，文章的结尾是诺奎斯特在街上遇到了一个他认识的人，这个人问他：“怎么样？”诺奎斯特回答道——这看起来不像是吹牛，而只是他所说的事实陈述——“我们正在获胜。”当我两周前在他的办公室采访他时，他说过去一年他肯定也有同样的感觉。
His side is winning.
他的球队正在获胜。
After all, he said, 2011 was a year where you would normally see a tax increase.
毕竟，他说，2011 年通常是增税的一年。
The government needs money because in a recession it is bringing in way less revenue than usual.
政府需要资金，因为在经济衰退期间，它带来的收入比平时少得多。
There's a massive shortfall.
存在巨大的缺口。
And for two years, to help the States cope with the shortfall, President Obama's stimulus package sent billions to all the states.
两年来，为了帮助各州应对资金短缺，奥巴马总统的经济刺激计划向所有州提供了数十亿美元。
But that just ended.
但这才刚刚结束。
So you're supposed to have 50 states going we must raise taxes to replace the stimulus spending.
因此，应该有 50 个州必须提高税收来取代刺激支出。
And at the federal level, hey, let's raise taxes.
在联邦层面，嘿，让我们提高税收。
And both at the national level and at the state level, 45 states said no to tax increases and only five raised taxes.
无论是在国家层面还是在州层面，都有 45 个州拒绝增税，只有 5 个州提高了税收。
So if it was just Washington, you'd go, OK, the guys in Washington DC traumatized by Obama's spending.
因此，如果只是华盛顿，你会说，好吧，华盛顿特区的人们因奥巴马的支出而受到创伤。
But when 50 states are having the same fight and in 45 of them you don't raise taxes and you do cut spending, that's very positive.
但是，当 50 个州陷入同样的斗争，而其中 45 个州没有提高税收并削减支出时，这是非常积极的。
But it's not just about taxes.
但这不仅仅是税收的问题。
For Norquist and his allies who want to see a radically smaller government, these past three years have been especially promising.
对于诺奎斯特和他的盟友来说，他们希望看到一个规模大幅缩小的政府，过去三年尤其充满希望。
He says he is seeing a shift in the Republican Party that goes beyond taxes.
他说，他看到共和党的转变不仅仅限于税收。
Up until the Tea Party movement, there was too much of a willingness of Republicans to allow spending to drift upwards.
在茶党运动之前，共和党人非常愿意允许支出增加。
That was the Bush story.
这就是布什的故事。
Bush got the message, don't raise taxes.
布什明白了，不要加税。
He didn't get the message about spending less and reducing total government spending from where it was.
他没有得到关于减少支出和减少政府总支出的信息。
So the Bush years were lost years for limited government.
因此，布什执政时期对于有限政府来说是失落的时期。
It took the shock of Obama's massive spending increase to scare voters enough to create the Tea Party movement, who then entered the modern Republican Party and revigorate it.
奥巴马大规模增加开支的冲击才足以吓到选民，从而引发了茶党运动，茶党运动随后加入了现代共和党并重振了它。
And saying to the modern Republican Party, stop spending so much.
并对现代共和党说，停止花这么多钱。
Big, big change in the modern Republican Party.
现代共和党发生了巨大的巨大变化。
That's one of the things that gives me real hope.
这是给我真正希望的事情之一。
From Christie's New Jersey to Scott's Florida to Kasich's Ohio, to Boehner and Mitch McConnell in Washington.
从佳士得的新泽西州到斯科特的佛罗里达州，再到卡西奇的俄亥俄州，再到华盛顿的博纳和米奇·麦康奈尔。
There's nothing you can't do in the United States over a 25-year period.
25年里，在美国没有什么是做不到的。
With enough time-- that's Archimedes' lever, is time-- you can do a lot of stuff over time.
只要有足够的时间——这就是阿基米德的杠杆，就是时间——随着时间的推移，你可以做很多事情。
A generation, Norquist says.
诺奎斯特说，是一代人。
That's his time frame.
这就是他的时间范围。
Give him 25 years to radically reduce the size of government.
给他25年的时间从根本上缩减政府规模。
After all, he's already on his way.
毕竟，他已经上路了。
He's winning.
他赢了。
Coming up, a city employee rises from the ashes like a phoenix.
即将到来，一位城市雇员像凤凰一样浴火重生。
That's in a minute, from subscriber Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.
稍后，订阅者公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, what kind of country do we want?
今天我们的节目，我们想要一个什么样的国家？
At this moment when so much of our politics seems to be obsessed with how to cut back on government, we have stories of people choosing whether they want more government or less, more taxes or fewer, we have arrived at Act Three of our show.
此时此刻，当我们的政治界似乎痴迷于如何削减政府开支时，我们看到人们选择是否需要更多的政府或更少的政府、更多的税收还是更少的税收，我们已经到了节目的第三幕。
Act Three, Do You Want a Wake Up Call?
第三幕，你想要叫醒电话吗？
In Colorado Springs, Colorado, when they had budget troubles a couple years ago, the city did something that made them momentarily famous around the country.
在科罗拉多州的科罗拉多斯普林斯，几年前，当他们遇到预算问题时，这座城市做了一些让他们一时闻名全国的事情。
They turned off a third of their street lights to save electricity costs.
他们关闭了三分之一的路灯以节省电费。
Since then, other cities have followed their lead.
此后，其他城市纷纷效仿。
But when this first happened in Colorado Springs, people like Jamie Lindsay didn't know what was going on.
但当这种情况第一次发生在科罗拉多斯普林斯时，像杰米·林赛这样的人并不知道发生了什么事。
We were just outside playing basketball, and then, all of a sudden, we were like, hey, why isn't the street light on?
我们当时正在外面打篮球，然后突然间，我们就想，嘿，为什么路灯没有亮呢？
And the girls were like, what's going on with the street light?
女孩们就想，路灯怎么了？
Colorado Springs didn't stop at cutting streetlights.
科罗拉多斯普林斯并没有停止削减路灯。
Public restrooms were locked, bus service slashed.
公共卫生间被锁，公交车服务被削减。
Those nice little flower beds in the median strips of the streets downtown, wilted, dead.
市中心街道中间地带那些漂亮的小花坛，枯萎了，死了。
The amazing thing about Colorado Springs, though, was what it decided to do about this mess.
然而，科罗拉多斯普林斯令人惊奇的事情是它决定对这一混乱局面采取行动。
They did something different from any other city.
他们做了一些与其他城市不同的事情。
They decided to live the conservative dream, keep a smaller government, give the free market a chance to handle some of these city services in some very unusual ways.
他们决定实现保守派的梦想，保留一个较小的政府，让自由市场有机会以一些非常不寻常的方式处理其中一些城市服务。
Robert Smith travelled to Colorado Springs and reports on the results of the experiment.
罗伯特·史密斯前往科罗拉多斯普林斯报告实验结果。
The residents of Colorado Springs should've seen it coming.
科罗拉多斯普林斯的居民应该预见到它的到来。
When the recession hit, the city gave everyone fair warning.
当经济衰退袭来时，这座城市给了每个人公平的警告。
Here are the things we have to cut-- police, fire, those beautiful parks all over Colorado Springs.
以下是我们必须削减的东西——警察、消防、科罗拉多斯普林斯各地美丽的公园。
All of this could be gone, the city said, if you don't vote to raise your taxes.
该市表示，如果你不投票提高税收，所有这一切都可能消失。
This is Bo Sharifi.
这是博·沙里菲。
He and his wife Sara and their two kids live up in the foothills of Colorado Springs.
他和妻子萨拉以及两个孩子住在科罗拉多斯普林斯的山麓。
As soon as I hear government, oh, we need more money, I don't know.
我一听到政府，哦，我们需要更多的钱，我不知道。
I guess I kind of automatically assume, yeah, there's probably some other things you could probably cut before firemen, policemen, city lights, and that sort of thing.
我想我会自动假设，是的，在消防员、警察、城市灯光之类的事情之前，你可能还可以砍掉其他一些东西。
So when his street light went dark, he didn't put two and two together.
所以当他的路灯变暗时，他没有把两个和两个放在一起。
Being the Good Samaritan, I called the city.
作为好撒玛利亚人，我给这座城市打电话。
And I was like, "Hey, you need to come out and fix this light." They're like, "Oh, yeah.
我当时想，“嘿，你需要出来修理这个灯。”他们就像，“哦，是的。
You remember that tax increase you didn't vote for?" I was like, "Uh, maybe."
你还记得你没有投票支持的增税吗？”我当时想，“呃，也许吧。”
The guy on the phone explained to Bo how life was going to be in Colorado Springs from now on.
电话里的人向 Bo 解释了从现在开始在科罗拉多斯普林斯的生活将会如何。
If you want your street light, he said, you have to pay for it.
他说，如果你想要路灯，就必须付费。
For $125, the city would send someone to Bo's street and turn back on the electricity.
只需花费 125 美元，市政府就会派人到 Bo 所在的街道并恢复供电。
$125.
125 美元。
You could pay by credit card.
你可以用信用卡支付。
For Bo and his wife Sarah, it was hard to believe at first.
对于博和他的妻子莎拉来说，一开始很难相信。
It seemed like some kind of scam, some kind of payback from the city.
这看起来像是某种骗局，某种来自城市的报复。
Because it felt like, in a way, by shoveling out $100 to turn on a street light that we kind of felt was supposed to be on anyway, that it was giving them what they wanted.
因为在某种程度上，感觉就像是掏出 100 美元打开一盏我们觉得无论如何都应该打开的路灯，这给了他们他们想要的东西。
Giving who what they wanted?
给谁他们想要的东西？
Sara Sharifi The city.
萨拉·谢里菲 这座城市。
I think people were just kind of ticked.
我认为人们只是有点生气。
The Sharifis and their neighbors said fine.
谢里菲派和他们的邻居说很好。
We will pay for lights ourselves.
我们将自己支付灯费。
And hundreds of other people around the city did the exact same thing.
城市周围数百名其他人也做了同样的事情。
Colorado Springs became an unusual place, a city where the people who could afford streetlights paid for them, a la carte.
科罗拉多斯普林斯成为一个不寻常的地方，在这座城市里，买得起路灯的人可以按菜单点菜购买路灯。
Others lived in the dark.
其他人则生活在黑暗中。
It was like the capital of some very snowy, unusually affluent third world country.
它就像某个白雪皑皑、异常富裕的第三世界国家的首都。
You could see it driving around.
你可以看到它四处行驶。
Colorado Springs was stepping away from one of the things that we take for granted in most American cities, that we're all in it together.
科罗拉多斯普林斯正在远离我们在大多数美国城市认为理所当然的事情之一，即我们都在一起。
At least when it comes to basic services.
至少在基本服务方面是这样。
And it wasn't just streetlights.
这不仅仅是路灯。
Alison Foster lives next door to a park.
艾莉森·福斯特住在公园隔壁。
No more trash cans, no more watering.
不再有垃圾桶，不再浇水。
Alison asked her neighbors for donations.
艾莉森向邻居请求捐款。
And if you thought $125 for streetlights was expensive, get this.
如果您认为 125 美元的路灯太贵，那就买这个吧。
Adopting a city park, $2,500.
收养一座城市公园，2,500 美元。
They put the trash cans back after we sent in our money.
我们寄钱后，他们把垃圾桶放回去了。
To some people, that's going to sound like an extortion racket.
对于某些人来说，这听起来像是敲诈勒索。
Yeah, I know, I know.
是的，我知道，我知道。
It did after I just said that.
我刚才说完之后就这样了。
The money, by the way, was for trash cans and sprinklers.
顺便说一句，这笔钱是用来买垃圾桶和洒水器的。
But the neighbors had to collect and haul the garbage themselves.
但邻居们不得不自己收集和搬运垃圾。
In the end, I think a lot of us felt like, OK, how long are we going to have to do this?
最后，我想我们很多人都想，好吧，我们需要这样做多长时间？
And when is the city going to pick this up again?
这座城市什么时候会再次出现这种情况？
It's no accident that Colorado Springs is the place where all this happened.
科罗拉多斯普林斯成为这一切发生的地方并非偶然。
Colorado Springs is not just conservative, it is famous for being conservative.
科罗拉多斯普林斯不仅保守，而且还因保守而闻名。
It's the home of Focus on the Family, evangelical churches like the New Life Church, four military bases, Air Force Academy.
这里是“关注家庭”组织、新生命教堂等福音派教堂、四个军事基地和空军学院的所在地。
It is in the most right-leaning congressional district in all of Colorado.
它位于科罗拉多州最右倾的国会选区。
Add to the mix outdoorsy types, mountain bikers, ex-hippies, and you get this kind of pioneer leave me alone vibe around here.
再加上户外运动爱好者、山地自行车手、前嬉皮士，你会在这里感受到这种先驱者别打扰我的氛围。
The citizens of Colorado Springs didn't just believe in limited government, they made it law.
科罗拉多斯普林斯的公民不仅相信有限政府，而且将其制定为法律。
20 years ago they passed the Taxpayer Bill of Rights.
20 年前，他们通过了《纳税人权利法案》。
TABOR, everyone calls it.
TABOR，每个人都这么称呼它。
And TABOR-- you may have heard of this because other states have put it on the ballot.
还有 TABOR——您可能听说过这个，因为其他州已将其列入选票。
But it started right here in Colorado Springs.
但它就从科罗拉多斯普林斯开始。
Under TABOR, if you want to raise or impose any tax at all, you have to get the voters to approve it first.
在 TABOR 下，如果你想提高或征收任何税收，你必须首先获得选民的批准。
Our voters very rarely will support a tax increase.
我们的选民很少会支持增税。
This is Colorado Springs City Councilwoman Jan Martin, one of the people who deals with TABOR day in and day out.
我是科罗拉多斯普林斯市议员简·马丁 (Jan Martin)，她是日复一日与 TABOR 打交道的人之一。
TABOR is like a set of handcuffs for city government.
TABOR 就像市政府的一副手铐。
It limits how much you can grow your budget, makes it hard to shift money from one thing to another.
它限制了你可以增加预算的程度，使得你很难将钱从一件事转移到另一件事上。
The city survives mostly on sales tax, which is great when the town is filled with tourists, right?
这个城市主要靠销售税生存，当小镇里挤满了游客时，这很好，对吧？
All those hikers and mountain bikers buying energy bars.
所有徒步旅行者和山地自行车爱好者都在购买能量棒。
But when a recession comes along, living off sales tax is a disaster.
但当经济衰退来临时，依靠销售税过活就是一场灾难。
What we experienced when the downturn occurred is, immediately, people stopped buying, which meant our dollars dropped faster than most communities.
当经济低迷发生时，我们所经历的是，人们立即停止购买，这意味着我们的美元下跌速度比大多数社区都要快。
And we crashed and burned almost simultaneously with the economic downturn.
我们几乎与经济衰退同时崩溃和烧毁。
In 2009, tens of millions of dollars the city was counting on didn't materialize.
2009年，该市所指望的数千万美元资金并未兑现。
Jan believed TABOR only gave her one choice.
Jan相信TABOR只给了她一个选择。
She had to ask voters for the tax increase you heard about.
她必须向选民询问你听说过的增税事宜。
And this wasn't easy for Jan.
这对简来说并不容易。
She's a Republican.
她是一名共和党人。
She owns her own business.
她拥有自己的生意。
She has an MBA in finance.
她拥有金融 MBA 学位。
But she thought, I just need to be straight with voters about the situation we're in.
但她认为，我只需要向选民坦白我们所处的情况即可。
She said, look., the city needs to raise $28 million.
她说，看，该市需要筹集 2800 万美元。
That means the average homeowner would have to kick in about $200 a year.
这意味着普通房主每年必须投入约 200 美元。
To go before the voters in the middle of an economic downturn, I will admit, it was pretty gutsy.
我承认，在经济低迷时期走到选民面前，这是相当勇敢的。
But I really felt as an elected official I owed it to the general public to give them an option before the cuts were made.
但我确实觉得，作为一名民选官员，我有责任在削减开支之前为公众提供选择。
It wasn't even close.
甚至还差得很远。
The voters in Colorado Springs said no way.
科罗拉多斯普林斯的选民表示不可能。
Nearly 2/3 of them voted against the tax.
其中近2/3的人投票反对这项税收。
The next morning when I got up, my email box was filled with the most vile email messages I personally have ever received after five years on city council.
第二天早上，当我起床时，我的电子邮箱里塞满了我在市议会工作五年后收到过的最恶毒的电子邮件。
Accusing me of destroying our city, and how dare I bring this forward at a time like this.
指责我破坏了我们的城市，我怎么敢在这种时候提出来。
And how crazy I was and how stupid I was.
我是多么疯狂，我是多么愚蠢。
That is the part that stunned me.
这就是令我震惊的部分。
And that's how the Colorado Springs experiment began.
科罗拉多斯普林斯实验就是这样开始的。
With government and its citizens bickering back and forth, mean, resentful.
政府和公民争吵不休，充满怨恨。
And wondering if someone could come up with a better way.
并想知道是否有人可以想出更好的方法。
Now everything might have stayed like this if not for one man, up on a hillside above Colorado Springs watching this whole drama.
现在，如果没有一个人在科罗拉多斯普林斯上方的山坡上观看这整出戏剧，一切可能都会保持这样。
He's a private guy, usually keeps to himself and his own business.
他是个注重隐私的人，通常只顾自己的事，只顾自己的事。
But he was about to write a manifesto.
但他正要写一份宣言。
A blueprint for how the city could solve all of its problems.
城市如何解决所有问题的蓝图。
I'm Steve Bartolin, and I'm the president and CEO of the Broadmoor Hotel in Colorado Springs, Colorado.
我是史蒂夫·巴托林 (Steve Bartolin)，是科罗拉多州科罗拉多斯普林斯布罗德莫酒店 (Broadmoor Hotel) 的总裁兼首席执行官。
Now when I first heard about Steve Bartolin, I thought, why would the city council, or anyone really, listen to a guy who runs a hotel?
现在，当我第一次听说史蒂夫·巴托林时，我想，为什么市议会或任何人真的会听一个经营酒店的人的意见？
Well, the answer is, this isn't just any hotel.
嗯，答案是，这不仅仅是一家酒店。
Welcome to the Broadmoor.
欢迎来到布罗德莫尔。
The place that you may have thought existed only in your grandest dreams and fondest imagination.
您可能认为只存在于您最宏伟的梦想和最美好的想象中的地方。
That's the promotional video.
那是宣传视频。
But my producer Brian Reed and I had to see this place for ourselves.
但我的制片人布莱恩·里德和我必须亲自去看看这个地方。
Welcome to the Broadmoor, Mr. Smith and Mr. Reed.
欢迎来到布罗德莫，史密斯先生和里德先生。
One of the bellmen, Dan Saluski, walked us around the grounds.
其中一位行李员丹·萨鲁斯基（Dan Saluski）带我们参观了场地。
Though, really, it's more like a small city.
不过，实际上，它更像是一个小城市。
You can do about anything you want here.
在这里你可以做任何你想做的事。
3,000 acre property, three championship golf courses.
占地 3,000 英亩的地产，三个锦标赛高尔夫球场。
13 restaurants, 24 stores, a transit system.
13 家餐厅、24 家商店、一个交通系统。
Our shuttles will take you anywhere on the property including the zoo.
我们的班车将带您前往酒店的任何地方，包括动物园。
Plus the whole place has this fragrance that hangs in the air.
而且整个地方都弥漫着这种香味。
They pump it in.
他们把它泵进去。
It's like lemon sage something.
就像柠檬鼠尾草之类的东西。
And when I asked the front desk about it, I was told the perfume has a name.
当我询问前台时，我被告知这款香水有一个名字。
The smell of the Broadmoor, and I'm not making this up, is called Optimism.
布罗德莫尔的气味——这不是我编造的——被称为“乐观”。
I've had a lady, when I opened up the door, she cried.
我有一个女士，当我打开门时，她哭了。
It just was absolutely everything that she thought it was going to be, staying at the Broadmoor.
住在布罗德莫酒店，这绝对是她所想的一切。
So, yeah.
所以，是的。
I finally understood.
我终于明白了。
When the CEO of Shangri-La writes a manifesto, people pay attention.
当香格里拉首席执行官写下宣言时，人们就会关注。
Back in the city's dark days, as the parks were turning brown, the Broadmoor remained green and lush.
回到这座城市的黑暗岁月，当公园变成棕色时，布罗德莫仍然绿意盎然、郁郁葱葱。
And Steve Bartolin was up here watching what the Colorado Springs city council was doing.
史蒂夫·巴托林 (Steve Bartolin) 正在这里观看科罗拉多斯普林斯市议会的活动。
And he was not happy.
但他并不高兴。
The Broadmoor is one of the city's biggest taxpayers.
布罗德莫酒店是该市最大的纳税人之一。
And Bartolin needs Colorado Springs to be appealing, to look good, if he's going to attract tourists.
如果巴托林想要吸引游客，那么他需要科罗拉多斯普林斯具有吸引力、看起来漂亮。
What they had done was say we need a tax increase.
他们所做的是说我们需要增加税收。
The citizens voted it down.
公民投票否决了它。
So it's one of these things where we'll show you.
这就是我们将向您展示的其中之一。
Now you're not going to have streetlights.
现在你不会有路灯了。
And we're not going to water our parks.
我们不会给我们的公园浇水。
It seemed ridiculous to me, we can't water our own parks.
在我看来这很荒谬，我们不能给自己的公园浇水。
And that generated a lot of negative publicity on the national level, that we were just rolling up the doormat and closing for business.
这在国家层面产生了很多负面宣传，认为我们只是卷起门垫并关门歇业。
And Bartolin thinks to himself, this is certainly not the way you would run a hotel.
巴托林心想，这肯定不是经营酒店的方式。
And then he has this kind of crazy idea, this thought experiment.
然后他有了这种疯狂的想法，这个思想实验。
What if Colorado Springs did run more like the Broadmoor Hotel?
如果科罗拉多斯普林斯的经营方式确实更像布罗德莫酒店呢？
Think about it, Bartolin muses.
想想吧，巴托林沉思道。
They're both in the same business, providing customer service.
他们都从事同一行业，提供客户服务。
I look at our business.
我看看我们的生意。
I mean, we have about the same number of employees as the city.
我的意思是，我们的员工数量与这座城市的员工数量大致相同。
And I look at us as a service delivery organization, that's what we do.
我将我们视为一个服务提供组织，这就是我们所做的。
How do you deliver the highest quality of service in the most efficient, cost-effective manner?
如何以最高效、最具成本效益的方式提供最高质量的服务？
There's an art to doing that.
这样做是一门艺术。
And that was kind of where I was coming from.
这就是我的来源。
Maybe there's another way to approach this.
也许还有另一种方法可以解决这个问题。
Now Bartolin knows there are big differences between a city and a hotel.
现在巴托林知道城市和酒店之间存在巨大差异。
But he starts looking at the city budget, and looking at the Broadmoor.
但他开始关注城市预算，并关注布罗德莫。
Back and forth.
来回。
And writing down actual specific comparisons.
并写下实际的具体比较。
Why does the city let employees rack up sick days year after year, he wonders.
他想知道为什么这座城市让员工年复一年地请病假。
You'd never do that at the hotel.
你永远不会在酒店这样做。
And why does it take 81 people to run the computer department at the city?
为什么需要 81 个人来管理该市的计算机部门？
There are only nine computer guys at the Broadmoor.
布罗德莫尔只有九名计算机人员。
But the biggest difference Bartolin notices between Colorado Springs and the Broadmoor Hotel, the thing that just jumps out at him, is how much Colorado Springs spends on its employees, particularly on health benefits and pensions.
但巴托林注意到科罗拉多斯普林斯和布罗德莫尔酒店之间最大的区别，让他突然想到的是科罗拉多斯普林斯在员工身上花费了多少钱，特别是在健康福利和养老金方面。
They're running a 70% labor cost, and we'll run a 35% labor cost.
他们的劳动力成本为 70%，我们的劳动力成本为 35%。
Meaning that their employees are twice as much of their budget as they are for you?
这意味着他们的员工的预算是您的两倍？
Correct.
正确的。
Not saying it should be on an equal basis, but that seemed like quite an extreme.
虽然不是说应该平等，但这似乎有点极端。
I was shocked.
我很震惊。
I said, it's over.
我说，结束了。
I mean, you don't have a chance.
我的意思是，你没有机会。
What do you mean, you don't have a chance?
你说你没有机会是什么意思？
You can't run an organization with a 70% payroll.
你无法用 70% 的工资来运营一个组织。
Any business person could look at that and say, Jesus, we're going to be out of business in 2014 at this pace.
任何商业人士看到这一点都会说，天哪，按照这个速度，2014 年我们就会倒闭。
He writes down all these cost comparisons in an email.
他在电子邮件中写下了所有这些成本比较。
A private email, Bartolin stresses, meant only for the people who run the city.
巴托林强调，私人电子邮件仅适用于管理这座城市的人。
He put "City Budget" in the subject line, and he gets specific.
他将“城市预算”放在主题行中，并且说得很具体。
The city needs to lower its starting wages.
该市需要降低起薪。
The city should require employees to pay a bigger share of their health insurance costs.
该市应该要求员工支付更大比例的健康保险费用。
And on top of all of this, Bartolin tells the council the city should hire private companies to do the things that it used to do.
除此之外，巴托林告诉市议会，该市应该聘请私营公司来做以前做的事情。
Contract out everything that is practical, he writes, with sharply negotiated pricing.
他写道，通过严格协商的价格，将所有实用的东西外包出去。
Now, none of these ideas are new.
现在，这些想法都不是新的了。
Privatization is going on all the time in places run by Republicans and by Democrats.
在共和党和民主党管理的地方，私有化一直在进行。
But the way Bartolin framed it, it was compelling.
但巴托林的构想方式却很引人注目。
And besides, who wouldn't want to live in a world like the Broadmoor?
此外，谁不想生活在布罗德莫这样的世界里呢？
The email reeked of optimism.
这封电子邮件充满了乐观的气息。
I looked at it and I did some editing once I had it drafted.
我看了看，起草后做了一些编辑。
And then I thought, should I send this or not?
然后我想，我是否应该发送这个？
Well, who wants to ruffle feathers?
好吧，谁愿意惹恼羽毛呢？
But then again, I thought, hey, it's just going to the council members and the mayor.
但我又想，嘿，这只是议会成员和市长的责任。
Maybe this is a perspective they need to hear.
也许这是他们需要听到的观点。
Maybe it'll help.
也许会有帮助。
And, ah, what the hell, I'd send it.
而且，啊，到底是什么，我会发送它。
I was sitting in my office, and I think I had just gotten my coffee, and an email came across.
我坐在办公室里，我想我刚刚喝了咖啡，突然收到一封电子邮件。
And I read it, and it was, wow.
我读了它，哇。
This is it.
就是这样。
This is not the mayor, this is not a city council member, this is in fact Chuck Fowler, a Colorado Springs businessman who barely knew Steve Bartolin.
这不是市长，这不是市议会成员，这实际上是查克·福勒，一位科罗拉多斯普林斯的商人，他几乎不认识史蒂夫·巴托林。
He was one of the thousands of people who read Bartolin's private email after it was forwarded all over the city.
巴托林的私人电子邮件被转发到全城后，他是数千人阅读的人之一。
And I just said, holy cow, I wonder who else has gotten this.
我只是说，天哪，我想知道还有谁得到了这个。
And I started making some telephone calls.
我开始打一些电话。
And had other people gotten it that you know?
你知道其他人得到过吗？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
In fact, I was late to get it, which I'm not too happy about.
事实上，我迟到了，对此我不太高兴。
Before long, the Colorado Springs Gazette printed the email in full.
不久之后，《科罗拉多斯普林斯公报》完整地刊登了这封电子邮件。
For the people here fed up with city government, this was the answer.
对于厌倦了市政府的人们来说，这就是答案。
People wrote letters to the editor preaching from the Bartolin text.
人们写信给编辑，宣扬巴托林的文本。
They demanded the city council act on the advice.
他们要求市议会根据建议采取行动。
Why isn't the city listening to this man, they asked.
他们问道，为什么这座城市不听听这个人的意见。
Why isn't the city being run like a five star hotel?
为什么这座城市不像五星级酒店那样运营？
All of our citizens can't live at the Broadmoor.
我们所有的公民都不能住在布罗德莫。
And all of our citizens, as much as they would like to, it's just not an option to have that quality of life in a community like Colorado Springs.
对于我们所有的公民来说，尽管他们很愿意，但在像科罗拉多斯普林斯这样的社区中享受这种生活质量并不是一种选择。
City councilwoman Jan Martin says she tried to explain.
市议员简·马丁说她试图解释。
The city has to hire people with a little more training and experience than at a hotel-- city engineers and managers, police officers.
这座城市必须雇用比酒店受过更多培训、更有经验的人——城市工程师、经理、警察。
Remember, Martin's a fiscal conservative.
请记住，马丁是一位财政保守派。
But weirdly, she found herself defending the size of local government.
但奇怪的是，她发现自己在捍卫地方政府的规模。
She says there's reasons the city payroll looks so high.
她说，这座城市的工资看起来如此之高是有原因的。
The pay has to be competitive with the other city governments.
薪酬必须与其他市政府具有竞争力。
Otherwise, no one would come to work for Colorado Springs.
否则，没有人会来科罗拉多斯普林斯工作。
And the city doesn't control its own pension costs.
而且该市并不控制自己的养老金成本。
Those are mandated by the state.
这些都是国家规定的。
But no matter how much Jan Martin argued, the Bartolin revolution had begun.
但无论扬·马丁如何争论，巴托林革命已经开始。
Chuck Fowler, the guy who was so impressed with the email, started to mobilize his fellow business people.
查克·福勒（Chuck Fowler）对这封电子邮件印象深刻，他开始动员他的商界同仁。
A group began meeting privately in an oak paneled room in a house once owned by the man who built the Broadmoor.
一群人开始在一间橡木镶板房间里私下聚会，该房间位于一栋曾经属于布罗德莫尔建筑者的房子里。
They called themselves the city committee.
他们称自己为市委员会。
And the committee spent hundreds of hours going through the city's books.
委员会花了数百个小时浏览该市的书籍。
Fowler says they built a database and ran a computer analysis of the budget.
福勒说，他们建立了一个数据库并对预算进行了计算机分析。
They invited city officials in to talk frankly behind closed doors.
他们邀请市政府官员进行闭门坦诚谈话。
We've had a parade of people coming in here including the entire senior staff of the city sitting around this table discussing this.
我们已经有一大群人来到这里，包括整个城市的高级工作人员，坐在这张桌子周围讨论这个问题。
When you describe this, I can't help but think that this was almost a shadow city council.
当你描述这一点时，我不禁想到这几乎是一个影子市议会。
We consider ourselves to be unpaid consultants to the city and to the elected leaders.
我们认为自己是城市和当选领导人的无偿顾问。
Their message to the city was clear.
他们向这座城市传达的信息是明确的。
Colorado Springs has to do something about the cost of all these city workers.
科罗拉多斯普林斯必须采取措施降低所有这些城市工人的成本。
If it doesn't, they said, the city will run out of money in the next decade.
他们说，如果不这样做，该市将在未来十年内耗尽资金。
One person who heard this message was a commercial real estate agent named Steve Bach.
听到这个消息的人是一位名叫史蒂夫·巴赫的商业房地产经纪人。
Bach ran for mayor, touting many of the city committee suggestions.
巴赫竞选市长，提出了市委员会的许多建议。
Steve Bartolin even threw him a fundraiser at the Broadmoor.
史蒂夫·巴托林甚至在布罗德莫为他举办了一场筹款活动。
And Bach won.
巴赫赢了。
Voters also approved a whole makeover of city government that gave the mayor new powers to hire and fire and veto spending, just like a CEO.
选民还批准了对市政府的全面改造，赋予市长聘任、解雇和否决支出的新权力，就像首席执行官一样。
Bach's been mayor about nine months now.
巴赫担任市长已有大约九个月了。
I want our city government to be fiscally sustainable for the long term.
我希望我们市政府的财政能够长期可持续。
I want to improve customer service, and I want to retain great employees.
我想改善客户服务，并留住优秀的员工。
This is sounding a lot like the Broadmoor.
这听起来很像布罗德莫尔。
Bach's trying several things straight out of Bartolin's email.
巴赫正在尝试直接从巴托林的电子邮件中得到的一些东西。
He's making city employees pay more for their health benefits.
他让城市雇员为健康福利支付更多费用。
He's called for a pay freeze.
他被要求冻结工资。
Bach's talking a lot about outsourcing basic city services, too.
巴赫也多次谈论外包基本城市服务。
If something can be done better by a business or a nonprofit, then good riddance.
如果某件事可以由企业或非营利组织做得更好，那就很好了。
He started to look at how he might contract out the bus system for cheaper, maybe even pay cab drivers to haul around people who don't have cars.
他开始考虑如何以更便宜的价格外包公交系统，甚至可能付钱给出租车司机来运送没有汽车的人。
The city hospital is up for lease or sale.
市医院正在出租或出售。
The first place you can see this new privatizing agenda in action is the city parks.
您可以看到这一新的私有化议程实施的第一个地方是城市公园。
Last spring they contracted with landscaping firms to mow, edge and trim.
去年春天，他们与园林绿化公司签订了割草、修边和修剪的合同。
So, did it work?
那么，它有效吗？
What happens when you privatize this guy?
当你将这个人私有化时会发生什么？
My name is Roland Hawkins.
我叫罗兰·霍金斯。
I live here in Colorado Springs.
我住在科罗拉多斯普林斯。
I'm married, got a 16-year-old boy, got three dogs.
我已婚，有一个 16 岁的男孩，养了三只狗。
And I got a jeep I want to sell.
我有一辆吉普车想卖掉。
You guys interested?
你们有兴趣吗？
We visited Roland at his house in a nice old section of Colorado Springs.
我们拜访了罗兰，他的家位于科罗拉多斯普林斯一个漂亮的老城区。
He leads us through his garage, past the jeep, and into his basement rec room.
他带领我们穿过他的车库，经过吉普车，进入他的地下室娱乐室。
The walls are lined with thousands of records.
墙上挂满了数千张记录。
And he takes the one easy chair right in the middle.
他坐在中间的一张安乐椅上。
Roland lays out his whole story.
罗兰讲述了他的整个故事。
He began as a seasonal worker in the parks, back in the good times, sitting on a mower all day for $7 an hour.
在美好时光里，他一开始是公园里的季节性工人，整天坐在割草机上，每小时 7 美元。
Then he got his big break.
然后他得到了重大突破。
Full time city employment.
全职城市就业。
My pay doubled almost immediately from seasonal to permanent.
我的工资几乎立即从季节性工资增加了一倍。
OK?
好的？
And then I must have got five raises, which just blew me away.
然后我肯定得到了五次加薪，这让我大吃一惊。
I just couldn't get over it.
我就是无法克服它。
There'd be one, and then a couple of months later I got another one.
本来会有一个，几个月后我又得到了另一个。
I've never worked in a place like that before.
我以前从未在这样的地方工作过。
It was great.
太棒了。
I loved it.
我喜欢它。
I was good.
我很好。
Robert Smith Roland could have been great for all we know.
据我们所知，罗伯特·史密斯·罗兰本可以成为伟大的人物。
But that didn't matter, because the pay raises he was getting were automatic.
但这并不重要，因为他的加薪是自动的。
I know it seems extreme, but we checked this all with the city.
我知道这看起来很极端，但我们已经向市政府核实了这一切。
Roland got 10 raises in five years.
罗兰在五年内获得了 10 次加薪。
He went from making $29,000 a year to more than $42,000 a year.
他的年收入从 29,000 美元增加到了 42,000 美元以上。
42K.
42K。
It's not like he's a union member or anything.
他又不像工会成员什么的。
It's just the way the city worked.
这就是这座城市的运作方式。
I knew there was going to be raises, but not in the way they came all of a sudden, man.
我知道会有加薪，但不是突然加薪，伙计。
It was like a landslide.
就像山体滑坡一样。
You know?
你知道？
I kept wondering how can you do this?
我一直想知道你怎么能做到这一点？
How could this go on?
这怎么可能继续下去呢？
I mean if they're doing it to me, they got to be doing it to the next guy.
我的意思是，如果他们对我这样做，他们也必须对下一个人这样做。
How long they can do that?
他们能做到多久？
Yeah.
是的。
And that's why you're here talking to me, right?
这就是你来这里跟我说话的原因，对吧？
His 10th raise was his last.
他的第十次加注是他的最后一次。
At its height, Colorado Springs' parks budget was more than $19 million.
在鼎盛时期，科罗拉多斯普林斯的公园预算超过 1,900 万美元。
After voters rejected the property tax increase, it was slashed to just $3 million.
在选民拒绝增加财产税后，财产税被削减至仅 300 万美元。
A month after the vote, Christmas 2009, Roland and dozens of his colleagues were fired.
投票后一个月，即 2009 年圣诞节，罗兰和他的数十名同事被解雇。
By last summer, the workers had all been replaced.
到去年夏天，工人全部被替换。
The city came up with some more money to spend on parks, but it went straight to private landscaping companies who could hire their own guys.
市政府拿出了更多资金用于公园建设，但这些资金直接流向了可以雇佣自己人员的私人园林绿化公司。
Guys who weren't going to get all those sweet pay bumps and benefits.
那些不会得到所有这些甜蜜的加薪和福利的人。
So who was the unlucky bastard who took Roland's job for less money?
那么那个以更少的钱抢走了罗兰工作的倒霉蛋到底是谁呢？
My name is Roland Hawkins, and I got a jeep I want to sell.
我叫罗兰·霍金斯，我有一辆吉普车想卖。
You guys interested?
你们有兴趣吗？
That's right.
这是正确的。
Private Roland replaced public Roland.
私人罗兰取代了公共罗兰。
The same thing I was doing for the city.
我为这座城市做着同样的事情。
Exactly the same thing.
完全一样的事情。
Equipment operator.
设备操作员。
I was mowing.
我正在割草。
How weird is that?
这有多奇怪？
You're back doing the same job.
你回来做同样的工作。
You know what is really weird-- I thought so too, that it was kind of odd.
你知道什么是真正奇怪的——我也这么认为，这有点奇怪。
But what was really weird is, I ended up in the district where my old supervisor was.
但真正奇怪的是，我最终来到了我以前的主管所在的地区。
That's the weird part.
这就是奇怪的部分。
You were working kind of for the same guy, way up above.
你们几乎是在为同一个人工作，而且职位高高在上。
Yeah.
是的。
Robert Smith Except in a private firm.
罗伯特·史密斯 除了在一家私人公司工作。
We had Roland walk us through the differences between his old job and his new job.
我们让罗兰向我们介绍了他的旧工作和新工作之间的差异。
We talked to his employers, too.
我们也与他的雇主进行了交谈。
The landscaping firm definitely got Roland to do the same job for a smaller paycheck.
园林绿化公司肯定让罗兰以更少的薪水做同样的工作。
They paid him around $17 an hour, rather than the $20 or so he was making at the city.
他们支付给他大约 17 美元每小时，而不是他在城里的 20 美元左右。
That's $36,000 a year private versus $42,000 a year public.
私人每年 36,000 美元，而公共每年 42,000 美元。
The private firm was also saving money on benefits.
这家私营公司还节省了福利费用。
The city, as you might expect, has a great insurance and pension plan.
正如您所料，这座城市拥有完善的保险和养老金计划。
There are lots of variables, but if you spend your career with the city, you can get 70% or even 80% of your salary when you retire.
变数很多，但如果你在这座城市度过你的职业生涯，你退休时可以获得70%甚至80%的工资。
That's pretty sweet.
真是太甜蜜了。
Roland chose not to take benefits from the private landscaping firm, but they do offer them.
罗兰选择不从私人园林绿化公司获得好处，但他们确实提供了这些好处。
Medical and retirement after people work there a while.
人们在那里工作一段时间后的医疗和退休。
But it's pretty standard stuff.
但这是非常标准的东西。
We did a simple calculation with all these numbers.
我们对所有这些数字进行了简单的计算。
Compared the salaries and added in the typical benefit packages for each job.
比较工资并添加到每项工作的典型福利包中。
Roughly here, private Roland is about $12,000 cheaper a year to employ than public Roland was.
大致而言，私人 Roland 每年的雇佣费用比公立 Roland 便宜约 12,000 美元。
The city spent $57,000 on him.
市政府为他花费了 57,000 美元。
For the same stuff, all things being equal, the landscaping firm would be out about $45,000.
对于同样的东西，在所有条件相同的情况下，园林绿化公司将损失约 45,000 美元。
That's a savings of roughly 21% for the same job, remember.
请记住，对于同样的工作，这大约可以节省 21%。
And Roland?
罗兰呢？
He was OK with working for the private sector.
他很乐意在私营部门工作。
He'd rather be making more money, but he thought, these guys were doing a good job.
他宁愿赚更多的钱，但他认为，这些人做得很好。
Before I got laid off, I always thought, well, a private company's gonna do shortcuts.
在我被解雇之前，我一直认为，私营公司会走捷径。
I was wrong about that.
我错了。
Civilian life is more, let's get out there, let's do it, let's do it.
平民生活多了，我们出去，我们干，我们干。
We got stuff to do.
我们还有事要做。
And you want to make it look good.
你想让它看起来不错。
You make it look good, you make the company look good.
你让它看起来很好，你就让公司看起来很好。
The civilian guy can fire your butt.
平民可以向你开火。
The city, man, has to go through a long process to fire your butt, and it's hard for them to do that.
伙计，这座城市必须经历一个漫长的过程才能解雇你，而他们很难做到这一点。
So you're doing extra.
所以你正在做额外的事情。
You're doing more.
你做得更多了。
You've got to do more in a civilian.
作为一名平民，你必须做更多的事情。
Roland was doing more work for less money.
罗兰用更少的钱做更多的工作。
That's the dream of privatization, right?
这就是私有化的梦想，对吗？
But the bigger picture here is more complicated.
但这里的大局要复杂得多。
Remember, Roland isn't the only cost involved.
请记住，罗兰并不是唯一涉及的成本。
The private landscaping firms add a healthy profit on the top, that's normal.
私人园林绿化公司在上面增加了可观的利润，这很正常。
And they had to purchase a lot of the things that the city already had, like equipment.
他们还必须购买城市已有的很多东西，比如设备。
So did the city really save any money here by outsourcing, by privatizing Roland's job?
那么，通过外包、将罗兰的工作私有化，市政府真的节省了钱吗？
We asked the city of Colorado Springs this question over and over again.
我们一遍又一遍地问科罗拉多斯普林斯市这个问题。
And they hemmed and they delayed.
他们犹豫不决，拖延了时间。
They couldn't find a number.
他们找不到号码。
Then they said it's tough to calculate.
然后他们说这个很难计算。
In the end, all we could get from the city was this.
最终，我们从这座城市所能得到的也只有这些。
Outsourcing Roland Hawkins and all those other workers might save money in the future.
外包罗兰·霍金斯和所有其他工作人员将来可能会省钱。
Because medical costs will rise.
因为医疗费用会上涨。
Pension costs could also rise.
养老金成本也可能上升。
Better to get Roland off the books now, privatize him now.
最好现在就把罗兰从账簿上除名，把他私有化。
But as for last summer, the first year of the parks experiment, the city couldn't say if they saved a dime.
但至于去年夏天，即公园实验的第一年，市政府无法透露他们是否节省了一毛钱。
Overall, the city's budget for parks is about $12 million now, a lot smaller than it was at its height.
总体而言，该市目前的公园预算约为 1200 万美元，比鼎盛时期要少得多。
But that's mostly because the parks department is doing less.
但这主要是因为公园部门做得较少。
They've closed swimming pools and laid off community center employees.
他们关闭了游泳池并解雇了社区中心的员工。
They're replacing fewer playgrounds and fences and bridges.
他们正在更换更少的游乐场、栅栏和桥梁。
And Roland, for his part?
罗兰呢？
He's not going back to the parks this summer.
今年夏天他不会再去公园了。
He hurt his back.
他伤了背。
What I learned, though, from talking to the people in Colorado Springs is that for a lot of them these calculations don't really matter.
不过，通过与科罗拉多斯普林斯的人们交谈，我了解到，对于他们中的许多人来说，这些计算并不重要。
They don't care if privatizing actually saves the government money, so long as the government is doing less.
他们不在乎私有化是否真的能节省政府的钱，只要政府做得更少。
City councilwoman Jan Martin says she hears this all the time.
市议员简·马丁说她经常听到这样的说法。
That it's become a matter of faith in the city that private is better.
这已经成为这座城市的一个信念问题：私人更好。
And she tells us a story.
她给我们讲了一个故事。
In the dark days, after the tax measure was defeated, city council was having another meeting about slashing government.
在税收措施失败后的黑暗日子里，市议会又召开了一次关于削减政府开支的会议。
And a gentleman came up to me and actually thanked me for the adopt a street light program.
一位绅士走到我面前，实际上感谢我采用路灯计划。
He had just written a check to the city for $300 to turn all the street lights back on in his neighborhood.
他刚刚给市政府写了一张 300 美元的支票，以重新打开他所在社区的所有路灯。
And I did remind him that for $200 if he had supported the tax initiative, we could have had not only streetlights, but parks and firemen and swimming pools and community centers.
我确实提醒他，如果他支持税收倡议，只要花 200 美元，我们不仅可以拥有路灯，还可以拥有公园、消防员、游泳池和社区中心。
That by combining our resources, we as a community can actually accomplish more than we as individuals.
通过整合我们的资源，我们作为一个社区实际上可以比我们作为个人取得更多成就。
And he said?
他说？
Jan Martin He said he would never support a tax increase.
扬·马丁（Jan Martin）表示，他永远不会支持加税。
So for him it wasn't the money.
所以对他来说，这不是钱。
He was willing to pay more to turn on the street lights than to pay for all city services.
他愿意为打开路灯支付比所有城市服务更多的费用。
That's right.
这是正确的。
And it's because of a total lack in trust of local government to spend those services, which was part of Steve Bartolin's letter.
这是因为人们完全不信任地方政府使用这些服务，这是史蒂夫·巴托林信中的一部分。
That prevailing sense that government won't take care of our money, that brings somebody to the conclusion that, I'll take care of mine.
人们普遍认为政府不会照顾我们的钱，这让人们得出这样的结论：我会照顾我的。
You go figure out how to take care of yours, because we don't trust government to do it for us.
你去想办法照顾你的，因为我们不相信政府会为我们做这件事。
Two years after Colorado Springs went dark, this is where they are.
科罗拉多斯普林斯陷入黑暗两年后，这就是他们所在的地方。
The city looks better.
城市看起来更好了。
The lights are back on, the parks are green again.
灯光重新亮起，公园又恢复了绿色。
But it wasn't because of privatization or the new mayor.
但这并不是因为私有化或新市长。
Remember how Martin mentioned that sales tax revenue plummets in a recession?
还记得马丁如何提到销售税收入在经济衰退中急剧下降吗？
It also recovers fast.
恢复也很快。
Tax revenue is bumping back up nicely.
税收收入正在大幅回升。
The Colorado Springs experiment in not trusting government is continuing full steam ahead.
科罗拉多斯普林斯不信任政府的实验正在全力推进。
They're trying to build a city where government does less, costs less, and leaves $200 in your pocket, not the government's.
他们正试图建设一座政府更少、成本更低的城市，并把 200 美元留在你的口袋里，而不是政府的口袋里。
Robert Smith is a member of our Planet Money team.
罗伯特·史密斯是我们 Planet Money 团队的成员。
Planet Money is a co-production of our program and NPR News.
Planet Money 是我们的节目和 NPR 新闻的联合制作。
Their blog and podcast, npr.org/money.
他们的博客和播客，npr.org/money。
[MUSIC - "OPTIMISM BLUES" BY HELEN REDDY]
[音乐 - 海伦·雷迪的《乐观布鲁斯》]
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International, WBEZ management oversight for our program by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia.
[致谢]《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行，WBEZ 管理部门由我们的老板 Torey Malatia 先生监督我们的节目。
I was just talking to him.
我刚刚在和他说话。
He bought this aquarium and some fish as pets.
他买了这个水族馆和一些鱼作为宠物。
But he is not into them.
但他不喜欢他们。
I think they're rude, they're ignorant.
我认为他们很粗鲁，他们很无知。
They're not friendly.
他们不友好。
Do you know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗？
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。