435: How To Create a Job - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #435 | May 13, 2011 435: How To Create a Job Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 435 集 | 2011 年 5 月 13 日 435：如何创造工作 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
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如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Here's what it's like to hold political office in the current economy.
序言 艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 以下是在当前经济形势下担任政治职务的感受。
In the last year, Jay Nixon, the governor of Missouri, has done a steady stream of events announcing new jobs in this state, a new IBM office with 800 jobs, a Sabreliner expansion that'll create 400 new jobs.
去年，密苏里州州长杰伊·尼克松 (Jay Nixon) 举办了一系列活动，宣布在该州设立新的就业岗位，包括设立可提供 800 个就业岗位的新 IBM 办事处、以及将创造 400 个新就业岗位的 Sabreliner 扩建项目。
And in November, he went to a plant in Macon, Missouri, that makes fishing reels to announce not hundreds of jobs, or dozens of jobs, but eight jobs.
11 月，他去了密苏里州梅肯市的一家渔线轮工厂，宣布的不是数百个或数十个工作岗位，而是八个工作岗位。
Eight.
八。
He did a press event for eight jobs.
他为八份工作举办了一次新闻发布会。
Well, I mean, that's not the smallest we've been to either.
嗯，我的意思是，这也不是我们去过的最小的。
We actually did one in North Missouri where we created one job.
实际上，我们在北密苏里州做了一项工作，在那里我们创造了一份工作。
And you showed up?
而你出现了？
Jay Nixon Yeah.
杰伊·尼克松 是的。
Right when I got started, I put together a small loan program.
当我开始时，我制定了一个小额贷款计划。
The businesses would complain that they didn't have access to capital.
这些企业会抱怨他们无法获得资金。
So we put a program together in which businesses could borrow up to $25,000 at 3% interest.
因此，我们制定了一项计划，企业最多可以以 3% 的利率借款 25,000 美元。
And in Bethany, Missouri, a small town, a lady had a printing company printing t-shirts and signs in her basement.
在密苏里州贝瑟尼小镇，一位女士让一家印刷公司在她的地下室印刷 T 恤和标牌。
This allowed her to get a storefront and hire somebody to help her move forward.
这让她获得了一个店面并雇人帮助她前进。
This is what it's come to, America.
这就是它的结局，美国。
You can hire your very first employee and the governor shows up with TV cameras.
你可以雇佣你的第一位员工，州长就会带着电视摄像机出现。
You can't be politics in America right now without promising people jobs.
如果不向人们承诺就业机会，现在就不可能在美国从事政治活动。
Right?
正确的？
You know what I'm talking about?
你知道我在说什么吗？
You've heard this from like every politician in America?
你像美国每一位政客一样都听过这句话吗？
In a tough economy, we're working hard to create opportunity.
在经济形势严峻的情况下，我们正在努力创造机会。
It's still all about jobs.
一切仍然与就业有关。
Nancy Pelosi When the President became President, we started creating jobs right away.
南希·佩洛西总统就任总统后，我们立即开始创造就业机会。
We have a bipartisan bill that will create jobs immediately.
我们有一项两党法案，将立即创造就业机会。
We're going to work hard, and our whole focus is get this state back to work.
我们将努力工作，我们的全部重点是让这种状态恢复正常。
A lot of people have been writing in, and calling in, and tweeting about jobs.
很多人写信、打电话、发推文谈论工作。
They'd say, Mr. Trump, can we have a job?
他们会说，特朗普先生，我们能找到工作吗？
Can you help us get a job?
你能帮我们找工作吗？
Well, the fact is, if I run, and if I win, you'll have plenty of jobs.
好吧，事实是，如果我参选，如果我赢了，你就会有很多工作。
That would be, of course, Newark Mayor Cory Booker, Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski, Democrats Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, Florida Governor Rick Scott, and Donald Trump.
当然，他们包括纽瓦克市长科里·布克、阿拉斯加州参议员丽莎·默科斯基、民主党人南希·佩洛西和哈里·里德、佛罗里达州州长里克·斯科特和唐纳德·特朗普。
In fact, if anyone these days brings up any subject besides jobs, people complain, why aren't we talking about jobs?
事实上，如果现在有人提出工作以外的任何话题，人们就会抱怨，为什么我们不谈论工作呢？
Well, they got the photo.
好吧，他们拿到了照片。
What to do about the photo?
对照片该怎么办？
This is Rush Limbaugh last week, when they Obama administration was still deciding whether or not to release photos of the dead Osama bin Laden.
这是上周的拉什·林堡，当时奥巴马政府仍在决定是否公布已死亡的奥萨马·本·拉登的照片。
And the longer they dangle the photo release decision, well, then the more people that are distracted from the slow job growth.
他们悬挂照片发布决定的时间越长，那么就越多的人会因就业增长缓慢而分心。
Or, on the opposite side of the political divide, on the Rachel Maddow Show, Dean Baker of the Center for Economic and Policy Research asks here why are we focusing so much on the deficit?
或者，在政治分歧的另一边，经济与政策研究中心的迪恩·贝克在《雷切尔·马多秀》上问道，为什么我们如此关注赤字？
To my mind it really is unconscionable just to sit back and have people go, oh, we're worried about the deficit, 10, 15, 20 years out, when we have 25 million people unemployed, underemployed, or out of the labor force altogether.
在我看来，袖手旁观并让人们离开确实是不合情理的，哦，我们担心10年、15年、20年后的赤字，届时我们将有2500万人失业、就业不足或完全脱离劳动力队伍。
So getting jobs in the economy really should be front and center.
因此，在经济中找到工作确实应该成为首要任务。
Or, just to show the all-purpose usefulness of this trope, here's Republican Congressman David Rivera being questioned about an investigation into his campaign finances.
或者，只是为了展示这种比喻的万能用处，共和党众议员戴维·里维拉（David Rivera）因对其竞选财务的调查而受到质询。
The interviewer tells him,
面试官告诉他，
Some of this material did not come out during the campaign, so the voters didn't have a chance to size it up.
其中一些材料在竞选期间并未公布，因此选民没有机会进行评估。
And now that they see what was going on, frankly some of them feel had.
现在他们看到了正在发生的事情，坦率地说，他们中的一些人觉得已经发生了。
Well, actually, most of the people were concerned about the economy and job creation.
事实上，大多数人都关心经济和创造就业机会。
They want me to go to Washington and do something about unemployment, job creation.
他们希望我去华盛顿，为解决失业、创造就业机会做点什么。
That's exactly what I've been doing.
这正是我一直在做的事情。
See how easy?
看看有多容易吗？
Well today on our radio show, with all these people saying it is time to create jobs, and promising that they're going to create jobs, and asking why aren't we spending more time talking about creating jobs, we ask, what does it even mean for a politician to create a job?
今天在我们的广播节目中，所有这些人都说现在是创造就业机会的时候了，并承诺他们将创造就业机会，并问我们为什么不花更多时间谈论创造就业机会，我们问，创造就业机会对政客来说意味着什么？
Can they really create many jobs?
他们真的能创造很多就业机会吗？
Is that real?
这是真的吗？
Is that a real thing?
这是真的吗？
Is it possible the whole thing is just a lot of well-meaning hot air?
有没有可能整件事只是一堆善意的空话？
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
We've been looking into this for months with our colleagues from Planet Money.
几个月来，我们一直与 Planet Money 的同事一起研究这个问题。
And we have answers.
我们有答案。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Can the Government Move My Cheese?
第一幕，政府可以动我的奶酪吗？
All right.
好的。
One of the big ways that politicians used to create jobs, the way that FDR did it back in the '30s-- put more people on the government payroll, build dams, build roads, spend and spend and spend-- nobody, nobody with any power anyway, seems to be talking about doing that.
政客们用来创造就业机会的重要方式之一，就像罗斯福在 30 年代所做的那样——让更多的人进入政府工资单、修建水坝、修路、花钱、花钱、花钱——似乎没有人、没有任何权力的人在谈论这样做。
But there are all sorts of things that politicians are doing to create jobs, only they're jobs in the private sector.
但政客们正在做各种各样的事情来创造就业机会，但这些都是私营部门的就业机会。
Chana Joffe-Walt explains how.
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt) 解释了具体方法。
In this story, I'm going to be talking about Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker.
在这个故事中，我将谈论威斯康星州州长斯科特·沃克。
But I should tell you up front, I'm not going to be talking about any of the things you know or have heard about him, which I'm assuming are mostly this.
但我应该预先告诉你，我不会谈论任何你知道或听说过的关于他的事情，我想这些大部分都是这样的。
Governor Walker is proposing deep cuts in public employee pension and health care benefits, and is called for eliminated collective bargaining rights for everything but pay.
沃克州长提议大幅削减公共雇员养老金和医疗保健福利，并呼吁取消除工资以外的所有事项的集体谈判权。
We will not be denied our rights to collectively bargain.
我们不会被剥夺集体谈判的权利。
It is Walker's proposed budget cuts that have the unions now up in arms.
正是沃克提议的预算削减引起了工会的强烈反对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah, all that, I am not going there.
是的，所有这些，我都不会去那里。
I will not be saying the words union or collective bargaining in this story-- except for that time, and that's it.
在这个故事中，我不会说工会或集体谈判这些词——除了那一次，仅此而已。
I want to talk about something else.
我想谈谈别的事情。
So before Walker became famous nationwide for taking on Wisconsin's public unions, in Wisconsin, he was famous for this-- his pledge to create jobs, something Walker has never been understated about.
因此，在沃克因对抗威斯康星州公共工会而闻名全国之前，在威斯康星州，他因承诺创造就业机会而闻名，沃克从未低估过这一点。
Here he is at a campaign event in February of last year.
这是他在去年二月的一次竞选活动中。
Today I want to make a first of its kind campaign announcement that I think is going to be earth-shattering.
今天，我想发布第一个此类竞选公告，我认为这将是惊天动地的。
Today I announce in front all of you here today and everybody else who is going to be listening on the news and reading in tomorrow's newspaper that if you elect me as your next governor, I pledge to you here today, and to all the other citizens of the state of Wisconsin, that by the end of my first term we will create 250,000 new jobs in this state, and 10,000 new businesses by the end of that first term.
今天，我在今天在座的各位以及所有将要收听新闻和阅读明天报纸的人面前宣布，如果你们选举我作为下一任州长，我今天向你们以及威斯康星州的所有其他公民保证，到我的第一个任期结束时，我们将在该州创造 250,000 个新就业机会，并在第一个任期结束时为该州创造 10,000 个新企业。
Walker's pledge to create jobs wasn't earth-shattering in and of itself.
沃克创造就业机会的承诺本身并不是惊天动地的。
But what was interesting about it was that he was so specific.
但有趣的是他是如此具体。
If we're going to look at how a politician creates jobs, this guy named a number, and not just once.
如果我们要看看政客如何创造就业机会，这个人会说出一个数字，而且不止一次。
No, in fact, he repeated it over and over and over again.
不，事实上，他一遍又一遍地重复着这句话。
This is Craig Gilbert, a political reporter for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
我是克雷格·吉尔伯特，《密尔沃基哨兵报》的政治记者。
250,000 jobs.
250,000 个工作岗位。
I will create 250,000 jobs in my first term as governor.
我将在担任州长的第一个任期内创造 25 万个就业岗位。
I mean, the message was the number.
我的意思是，消息就是号码。
Last February into the spring, Scott Walker had two opponents, Democrat Tom Barrett and Republican Mark Neumann.
去年二月春天，斯科特·沃克有两个对手，民主党人汤姆·巴雷特和共和党人马克·诺依曼。
For months, the two men ridiculed Walker's number, his specificity.
几个月来，这两个人一直在嘲笑沃克的数字和他的特殊性。
They called his 250,000 jobs number meaningless, arbitrary, an empty promise.
他们称他的 25 万个就业岗位数字毫无意义、武断、空洞的承诺。
"Why 250,000?" they'd say?
“为什么是25万？”他们会说？
"Because it's a round number?
“因为它是一个整数？
Why not 285,000?
为什么不是285,000？
300,000?"
三十万？”
This went on and on, until around June it quietly stopped.
这样的情况一直持续着，直到六月左右才悄然停止。
And the next thing that happened was that, one by one, Walker's opponents named their own numbers.
接下来发生的事情是，沃克的对手一一说出了自己的号码。
First Barrett.
首先是巴雷特。
Our immediate goal is to regain the 180,000 jobs that we've lost during this economic downturn.
我们的近期目标是恢复在这次经济衰退期间失去的 180,000 个工作岗位。
That's what I propose today, a comprehensive vision to create Wisconsin jobs.
这就是我今天提出的创造威斯康星州就业机会的全面愿景。
Then Neumann.
然后是诺依曼。
Mark Neumann But when you put the package together, we're talking about 300,000 jobs in the state of Wisconsin by 2020.
Mark Neumann 但是，当你把一揽子计划放在一起时，我们谈论的是到 2020 年威斯康星州将创造 300,000 个工作岗位。
That's the target.
这就是目标。
They couldn't beat Walker at the numbers game.
他们无法在数字游戏中击败沃克。
On November 2, Scott Walker, the first to name a number, won the election for governor.
11 月 2 日，斯科特·沃克（Scott Walker）第一个说出数字，赢得了州长选举。
The 250,000 jobs man would have his opportunity to job create.
25万个就业岗位的人将有机会创造就业机会。
So, is it working?
那么，它有效吗？
Are jobs being created in Wisconsin?
威斯康星州正在创造就业机会吗？
Sure, we're in a recovery from the worst recession since the Great Depression.
当然，我们正从大萧条以来最严重的衰退中复苏。
You may have heard that.
你可能听说过。
So yeah, there are new jobs in Wisconsin.
是的，威斯康星州有新的就业机会。
All you have to do to see job creation happening is look in the newspaper, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel classifieds.
要看到创造就业机会的发生，您所要做的就是查看报纸《密尔沃基日报前哨报》的分类广告。
Bed Bath & Beyond has a couple positions, as do several fast-paced dentist offices.
Bed Bath & Beyond 有几个职位，几家快节奏的牙医诊所也有。
There are opportunities for self-starters interested in selling Hondas.
对于有兴趣销售本田汽车的自主创业者来说，有机会。
Titan LED invites sales representatives to join the lighting revolution with a splashy full-pager.
Titan LED 邀请销售代表以引人注目的整页广告加入照明革命。
It's endless in terms of the opportunities.
就机会而言，这是无限的。
Because everywhere you look up, there's a fixture.
因为无论你抬头望去，都有固定装置。
This is John Ruscigno performing his job title, Titan LED Marketing Director.
我是 John Ruscigno，他的职位是 Titan LED 营销总监。
He told me they're hiring sales agents like crazy right now.
他告诉我他们现在正在疯狂地招聘销售代理。
And these are newly created jobs.
这些都是新创造的就业机会。
The company is brand new on the LED lighting scene, a booming industry.
该公司在 LED 照明这个蓬勃发展的行业中是全新的。
Oh, it's phenomenal.
哦，这真是太棒了。
There isn't a day that goes by that we don't have agents walking the door, and the phones are ringing, and we've got purchase orders coming in and shipments going out.
每一天都有代理上门，电话响个不停，采购订单进来，货物发出。
So it's actively growing, and growing very aggressively.
所以它正在积极增长，而且增长得非常积极。
Two sections down in the want ads, Brookdale Senior Living is hiring 15 people.
在招聘广告的下面两个部分，Brookdale Senior Living 正在招聘 15 名员工。
The ad explains, "Brookdale Senior Living is growing fast." And in person, the Executive Vice President and Treasurer Kristen Ferge explains why.
广告中解释道：“布鲁克代尔老年生活中心正在快速发展。”执行副总裁兼财务主管 Kristen Ferge 亲自解释了原因。
There's just a huge disconnect between the supply and the demand in the later years.
在接下来的几年里，供应和需求之间存在巨大的脱节。
Translation, there's about to be a lot of old people.
翻译一下，即将有很多老人了。
There aren't enough places to put them.
没有足够的地方来放置它们。
And that's what Brookdale offers, places for old people.
这就是布鲁克代尔为老年人提供的地方。
But-- and this is an important but-- I asked the LED guy if he had heard of Governor Walker's job creating plans.
但是——这是一个重要的但是——我问 LED 人员是否听说过沃克州长的就业创造计划。
He had not.
他没有。
Nor had the majority of people I called in the classifieds.
我在分类广告中致电的大多数人也没有这样做。
Kristin at Brookdale had.
布鲁克代尔的克里斯汀有过。
But she Walker was not the reason Brookdale is building new old age homes and creating jobs.
但沃克并不是布鲁克代尔建造新养老院和创造就业机会的原因。
That, again, is thanks to the supply-demand disconnect.
这又要归功于供需脱节。
Governor Scott Walker is not behind these jobs.
州长斯科特·沃克并不是这些工作的幕后黑手。
He's not aging people or making them crave LED lighting.
他不会让人们变老，也不会让他们渴望 LED 照明。
These jobs are created on their own.
这些工作岗位是自己创造的。
In fact, before Walker was elected, before he did anything in office, the Wisconsin Department of Revenue projected that the state would add about 190,000 jobs by 2015, Walker's deadline.
事实上，在沃克当选之前，在他上任之前，威斯康星州税务局预测，到 2015 年（沃克的最后期限），该州将增加约 190,000 个就业岗位。
So 190,000 jobs if Walker stepped into his fancy governor's office day one and proceeded to do exactly nothing all four years.
如果沃克第一天踏入他那豪华的州长办公室并在四年内什么也不做，那么将会有 190,000 个工作岗位。
If he played FarmVille on Facebook his entire term, jobs would still be created.
如果他整个任期都在 Facebook 上玩 FarmVille，仍然会创造就业机会。
So another way to think about the 250,000 jobs man is that he's got 190,000 that are freebies, which means he's actually going for 60,000 to reach beyond what would happen anyway.
因此，对于 250,000 个工作岗位的另一种思考方式是，他有 190,000 个免费赠品，这意味着他实际上会争取 60,000 个工作岗位，以达到超出无论如何都会发生的水平。
Now, how's he going to that?
现在，他打算怎么做呢？
The Wisconsin Capitol was sieged by anti-Walker protesters for weeks in February, early March.
二月和三月初，威斯康星州国会大厦被反沃克抗议者围困了数周。
When I arrive, it's almost April.
当我到达时，已经快四月了。
And the Capitol looks kind of like the front lawn of a frat house Monday morning.
国会大厦看起来有点像周一早上兄弟会的前草坪。
There are a few soppy posters poking out of garbage cans, small groups of protesters show up at random hours, the drum circle has been reduced to one guy with a pail.
垃圾桶里露出了几张湿漉漉的海报，小群抗议者不时出现，鼓圈只剩下一个提着水桶的人。
Governor Walker sits one floor above that scene.
沃克州长坐在场景上方一层。
There's no whiteboard in his office with a jobs tally, no big red 250,000 target, just him in a suit with a slogan.
他的办公室里没有写着就业统计的白板，也没有 250,000 人的红色大目标，只有他穿着印有口号的西装。
Scott Walker has a Clark Kent thing going on.
斯科特·沃克正在处理克拉克·肯特的事情。
He's sort of generically handsome.
总体来说他还是很帅的
He blinks in sync with his speech.
他的眨眼与他的讲话同步。
He's a fan of the word "literally." And he begins our interview by telling me about the night he won the election and introducing me to his sign, a move I'm pretty sure he uses with all the reporters.
他很喜欢“字面意思”这个词。在我们的采访开始时，他向我讲述了他赢得选举的那个晚上，并向我介绍了他的标语，我很确定他对所有记者都使用了这一举动。
It's green.
它是绿色的。
Picture a campaign poster.
想象一张竞选海报。
But this one just says,
但这只是说，
Wisconsin's open for business.
威斯康星州开始营业。
In fact, I put up a sign like that literally the night I won election, November 2.
事实上，我在 11 月 2 日赢得选举的那天晚上就竖起了这样的标语。
From that point forward, it's about telling the state what you're going to do.
从那时起，就是告诉国家你要做什么。
And so it literally just said "Wisconsin's open for business." And we said we have a plan to help of people the state create 250,000 jobs by the end of our first term, so 250,000 jobs by 2015.
所以它的字面意思就是“威斯康星州开门营业”。我们说过，我们有一个计划，帮助国家在第一个任期结束时创造 25 万个就业机会，到 2015 年创造 25 万个就业机会。
Walker and I talked in circles for a bit.
沃克和我兜圈子聊了一会儿。
I ask him, "But how do you do that, create jobs?" He tells me, "The private sector create jobs.
我问他：“但是你如何做到这一点，创造就业机会呢？”他告诉我，“私营部门创造就业机会。
The government just has to get out of the way." But, of course, his pledge was that the government led by him would create jobs.
政府必须让路。”但是，当然，他的承诺是他领导的政府将创造就业机会。
I asked for clarification, and eventually we come to this.
我要求澄清，最终我们达成了这一点。
Walker believes government helps create jobs through incentives.
沃克认为政府通过激励措施帮助创造就业机会。
He speaks mostly of taxes and exclusively about lowering them, something he started working on right away.
他主要谈论的是税收，并且专门谈论降低税收，这是他立即开始致力于的事情。
January 3, took the oath of office, literally called a special session.
1月3日，宣誓就职，字面意思叫特别会议。
And then handed the next morning the legislature, gave them a stack of various pieces of legislation, putting things that were specifically targeted towards lowering tax burden for employers based upon jobs created.
然后第二天早上交给立法机关，给了他们一堆各种立法，其中专门针对根据创造的就业机会降低雇主的税收负担。
Under these new laws, employers who create jobs now get a tax deduction, $2,000 to $4,000, depending on the company size, per head.
根据这些新法律，创造就业机会的雇主现在可以获得每人 2,000 至 4,000 美元的税收减免，具体取决于公司规模。
So $2,000 to $4,000 deduction for each new hire.
因此，每位新员工可扣除 2,000 至 4,000 美元。
Companies that relocate to Wisconsin get two years tax free.
搬迁到威斯康星州的公司可享受两年免税。
And Walker expanded another tax credit program for companies to make capital investments that create jobs.
沃克还扩大了另一项税收抵免计划，让企业进行资本投资以创造就业机会。
Now all this, I should say, is an incredibly typical approach.
我应该说，这一切都是一种非常典型的方法。
Hand out goodies to entice the private sector to hire.
发放好礼来吸引私营部门雇用。
Republicans tend to do it through tax cuts, Democrats through spending, many do both.
共和党人倾向于通过减税来实现这一目标，民主党人则通过支出来实现这一目标，许多人两者都做。
But they're all basically after the same thing-- less money for the government, more money for the private sector, get the jobs numbers to go up.
但他们基本上都在追求同一件事——减少政府的资金，增加私营部门的资金，让就业人数增加。
How will you know that you were successful?
你怎么知道你成功了？
How will you know they you created 250,000 jobs?
您如何知道您创造了 250,000 个就业岗位？
We track them.
我们追踪他们。
We track every month.
我们每个月都会进行跟踪。
For example, the first month of this year, the Department of Workforce Development tracks the number of new jobs that are added in the private sector.
例如，今年第一个月，劳动力发展部跟踪私营部门新增就业岗位的数量。
In January alone, there were 10,100, approximately, new jobs created in the private sector.
仅 1 月份，私营部门就创造了约 10,100 个新就业岗位。
We'll keep building off of those patterns.
我们将继续以这些模式为基础。
Well, it's not.
嗯，事实并非如此。
You don't have a personal clicker every time you talk to somebody who got a job.
每次与找到工作的人交谈时，您不会有个人答题器。
This is kind of a weird thing to say.
这话说起来有点奇怪。
On the one hand, Walker is saying he didn't create those jobs.
一方面，沃克说他没有创造这些就业机会。
Government can't create jobs.
政府无法创造就业机会。
But on the other hand he's saying it's helpful to have all these incentives to encourage businesses to create jobs.
但另一方面，他表示，所有这些激励措施都有助于鼓励企业创造就业机会。
I mean, for us, it's the overall climate.
我的意思是，对我们来说，这是整体气候。
It's creating a job.
它正在创造就业机会。
It's selling the state.
这是在出卖国家。
If it's an employer that I've never personally talked to, but an employer in Rice Lake, or La Crosse, or Wausau, or Green Bay says, "Things have changed.
如果我从未亲自与之交谈过，但莱斯湖、拉克罗斯、沃索或绿湾的雇主会说，“情况已经改变了。
I feel better about the economy.
我对经济感觉好多了。
I feel better about the state.
我对国家的感觉好多了。
I'm going to go out now and hire those five or ten people I was thinking about," all of those collectively, that's where the real job growth is going to come.
我现在要出去雇用我正在考虑的五到十个人，”所有这些人加起来，才是真正的就业增长的地方。
Right now Walker is on target.
现在沃克已经达到目标了。
If job growth continues at the current rate, he'll make his 250,000.
如果就业继续以目前的速度增长，他将赚到 25 万。
And in his mind, he will have done it in a very subtle, specific way.
在他看来，他会以一种非常微妙、具体的方式做到这一点。
The role Walker has cast for himself is one of professional government seducer, in which he makes the idea of hiring-- something you maybe had on the mind already-- look that much more appealing.
沃克为自己扮演的角色是一位专业的政府诱惑者，在这个角色中，他让招聘的想法——你可能已经想到了——看起来更具吸引力。
He's adding some alcohol to a singles mixer, maybe dimming the lights a bit.
他正在向单人调酒器中添加一些酒精，也许还会把灯光调暗一点。
And then, let the hiring begin.
然后，开始招聘。
In a moment, I'm going to join over here and sign away.
一会儿我要加入这里并签字离开。
But before that, I'll take questions.
但在此之前，我会回答问题。
Walker signed part of his jobs legislation into law at a company called Saris in Madison.
沃克在麦迪逊一家名为 Saris 的公司将其就业立法的一部分签署为法律。
They make bike racks.
他们制作自行车架。
It's a small business that's growing, likely job creator, good place to make an announcement like this.
这是一家正在成长的小企业，可能会创造就业机会，是发布这样的公告的好地方。
So a good place to test his theory, too, right?
所以这也是检验他的理论的好地方，对吧？
To ask if these incentives actually make a difference.
询问这些激励措施是否真的有所作为。
The CEO, Chris Fortune, was in Dallas at the Super Bowl when the governor visited.
当州长来访时，首席执行官克里斯·福琼 (Chris Fortune) 正在达拉斯观看超级碗比赛。
When I visited Saris, he was in the back office with a cold.
当我拜访萨里斯时，他因感冒而在后台办公室。
And he got out a calculator.
他拿出一个计算器。
OK, let's say at the end of the year, I've hired five people.
好吧，假设到年底，我雇佣了五个人。
I get a $4,000 deduction for each.
我每人可以扣除 4,000 美元。
So $20,000 off my total income, that's a deduction, which at the end saves me something like $270 per new employee.
因此，我的总收入减少了 20,000 美元，这是一项扣除，最终为我每个新员工节省了大约 270 美元。
Whatever-- let's say you hire somebody at $10 an hour.
不管怎样——假设你以每小时 10 美元的价格雇用某人。
That's $22,000 plus benefits.
加上福利，即 22,000 美元。
What is it, 2,080 hours a year times $10?
一年 2,080 小时乘以 10 美元意味着什么？
At $2,000, I don't know.
2000美元，我不知道。
It doesn't work.
这不起作用。
The math doesn't work for me as the motivator to hire people.
数学对我来说并不能作为雇用员工的动力。
It may work for somebody else, these financial programs.
这些金融项目可能对其他人有用。
But it doesn't work for us.
但这对我们不起作用。
It's strange though, because Governor Walker was here to announce these new programs to encourage businesses to hire.
但这很奇怪，因为沃克州长在这里宣布了这些鼓励企业招聘的新计划。
And yet you're saying it would do nothing for you.
但你却说这对你没有任何帮助。
Well, we could benefit from that if we do hire people.
好吧，如果我们确实雇用人员，我们可以从中受益。
The thing I am saying is that what that bill does isn't going to drive our decision on what we're going to do.
我想说的是，该法案的规定不会推动我们做出我们将要做什么的决定。
Are there employers for who the math does work who could get Walker those extra 60,000 jobs?
是否有雇主能够为沃克提供额外的 60,000 个工作岗位？
I asked Governor Walker.
我问沃克州长。
Are there companies that you can point to right now, three months into your term, and say these are companies that we've helped create jobs.
在您任期三个月后，您现在可以指出哪些公司是我们帮助创造就业机会的公司吗？
Yeah.
是的。
City Brewing in La Crosse, Wisconsin has 550 people working there.
位于威斯康星州拉克罗斯的 City Brewing 有 550 名员工。
They've got five lines.
他们有五行。
They want to add a sixth line.
他们想添加第六行。
And one of the ways that we're helping them do that-- we announced just on Friday-- was we're giving them $490,000 in tax credits.
我们帮助他们做到这一点的方法之一——我们刚刚在周五宣布——是我们为他们提供 49 万美元的税收抵免。
Meaning if they hit those a 100 plus jobs, they get $490,000 worth of credits off of their corporate income taxes.
这意味着，如果他们找到了 100 多个工作岗位，他们就可以从企业所得税中获得价值 49 万美元的抵免额。
I called City Brewing.
我打电话给城市酿酒公司。
They told me yes, the governor's tax incentives played a role-- at one point they even said a large role-- in their decision to hire.
他们告诉我，是的，州长的税收优惠在他们的招聘决定中发挥了作用——他们甚至一度说起了很大的作用。
They'd been wanting to add that sixth line for a while.
他们想添加第六行已经有一段时间了。
It was in the plans a year ago.
一年前就已经在计划之中了。
They're making a $13 million investment, so $490,000 off their income taxes is a small incentive.
他们进行了 1,300 万美元的投资，因此所得税减免 49 万美元只是一个小小的激励。
But they said it did help push them over the edge to do it now, to say yes to job creation.
但他们表示，这确实有助于推动他们现在就采取行动，对创造就业机会说“是”。
So, add 100 jobs to Walker's white board.
因此，在 Walker 的白板上添加 100 个作业。
I ask him for more examples.
我向他询问更多的例子。
Stoughton Trailer is a good example, overall 478 jobs.
Stoughton Trailer 就是一个很好的例子，总共有 478 个工作岗位。
They met with us.
他们会见了我们。
We put a package together.
我们把一个包放在一起。
If they don't create the number of jobs they said, they don't get as big of an incentive.
如果他们没有创造他们所说的就业机会，他们就不会得到那么大的激励。
Stoughton Trailers is 20 miles southeast of Madison.
Stoughton Trailers 位于麦迪逊东南 20 英里处。
You know the boxes you see trucks pulling around the highways carrying fruit, and toys, and toasters from one place to another?
您知道卡车在高速公路上行驶时所看到的那些箱子，它们载着水果、玩具和烤面包机从一个地方到另一个地方吗？
Stoughton makes them.
斯托顿制造它们。
Keith Wise makes the hires, 478, which is a lot of people to hire.
Keith Wise 招聘了 478 名员工，需要招聘的人数很多。
It's crazy.
太疯狂了。
It's fun.
很有趣。
It's nerve-wracking at times.
有时真是令人伤脑筋。
Stoughton will get a $750,000 government loan for investing $11 million in a new plant.
斯托顿将获得 75 万美元的政府贷款，用于投资 1100 万美元建设新工厂。
I ask if they would have hired the 478 people without these government programs.
我问如果没有这些政府计划，他们是否会雇用这 478 名员工。
We probably would, but at a much lower rate than what we are.
我们可能会，但速度比我们现在低得多。
Slower?
慢点？
Keith Wise Yeah, much slower, much slower.
Keith Wise 是的，慢得多，慢得多。
We'll be able to a lot of people in here a lot quicker than what we normally would.
我们将能够比平时更快地接待很多人。
So out of 478 jobs, maybe Walker gets to count half?
那么，在 478 个工作岗位中，沃克也许能占到一半？
Keith would not play this game with me.
基思不会和我玩这个游戏。
And I can recognize that it's kind of a ridiculous game.
我可以认识到这是一种荒谬的游戏。
Andrew Reschovsky, an economist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison basically told me as much.
威斯康星大学麦迪逊分校的经济学家安德鲁·雷肖夫斯基（Andrew Reschovsky）基本上也是这么告诉我的。
He kept repeating, look, the decision to hire someone is so complicated.
他不断重复，你看，聘用某人的决定是如此复杂。
Any employer he told me, has a long list of factors to consider.
他告诉我，任何雇主都有一长串需要考虑的因素。
Taxes are one factor, but not the most important factor.
税收是因素之一，但不是最重要的因素。
And they tend not to be at the top of the list.
而且它们往往不在列表的顶部。
It's kind of a genius political move to say that you, the politician, are going to create jobs.
说你作为政治家将要创造就业机会，这是一种天才的政治举动。
A job gets created and it could have been you.
一份工作被创造出来，而这个工作可能就是你。
Or it could have been because people are getting old, because we're coming out of a recession, or because people are buying more bikes.
或者可能是因为人们变老了，因为我们正在走出经济衰退，或者因为人们购买了更多自行车。
How will one ever know-- if the economy grows and employment is 250,000 jobs higher four years from now than it is now, will we know that it has anything to do with government policy or not?
人们怎么知道——如果四年后经济增长并且就业岗位比现在增加 250,000 个，我们会知道这是否与政府政策有关？
And that's one of the very difficult, probably unanswerable questions.
这是非常困难、可能无法回答的问题之一。
So we will never know if he was successful or not?
那么我们永远不会知道他是否成功？
I think that's fair to say.
我认为这样说是公平的。
Chana Joffe-Walt Oh, we could know that he failed, right?
Chana Joffe-Walt 哦，我们可以知道他失败了，对吧？
Yes.
是的。
If, at the end of four years, only 200,000 jobs have been created, he has failed in terms of his promise.
如果四年后只创造了20万个就业岗位，那么他就没有兑现自己的承诺。
Does that then mean that there is nothing a government can do to help create jobs?
那么这是否意味着政府无能为力来帮助创造就业机会？
I wouldn't go as far as saying there is nothing a government can do.
我不会说政府无能为力。
That overstates the case.
这夸大了事实。
Governments can make a difference.
政府可以发挥作用。
If you want to get businesses to increase hiring now, over the next year or two, you have relatively limited power.
如果你现在想让企业在未来一两年内增加招聘，你的权力相对有限。
Which is, of course, exactly what you want if you're a governor.
当然，如果你是州长，这正是你想要的。
You have four years.
你还有四年的时间。
You want the jobs now.
你现在就想要这些工作。
Reschovsky says, well, if you get a governor who's willing to be patient, there are things he or she can do that will likely help create jobs.
雷绍夫斯基说，如果你找到一位愿意保持耐心的州长，他或她可以做一些事情，这可能有助于创造就业机会。
Such as--
比如——
I'm going to improve the quality of the state university system, or I'm going to invest in community colleges, good roads, good bridges-- so physical infrastructure-- to have an educated labor force.
我要提高州立大学系统的质量，或者我要投资社区学院、良好的道路、良好的桥梁——还有物质基础设施——以拥有受过教育的劳动力。
There are possible ways in which you can make a difference.
您可以通过多种方式做出改变。
But you won't see those results until the end of your second term-- if you're lucky-- or until the next guy is in office.
但要到第二个任期结束时（如果幸运的话）或者下一任总统上任之前，你才会看到这些结果。
So in the meantime, politicians with a jobs number to achieve focus on the short term.
因此，与此同时，拥有就业机会的政治家们关注的是短期目标。
Republicans and Democrats hand out tax cuts and other incentives to seduce employers into hiring.
共和党和民主党提供减税和其他激励措施来吸引雇主招聘。
And of course those goodies cost something.
当然，这些好东西需要付出一些代价。
In Wisconsin, they account for $117 million in taxes that will not be collected over Walker's first two years.
在威斯康星州，他们缴纳了 1.17 亿美元的税款，这些税款在沃克上任的头两年不会被征收。
This in a state where they're fighting over every dollar.
这是在他们为每一美元而战的状态下。
So that leaves the government with less money to do the things Reschovsky is talking about, to spend on education so that employers can hire smart people, to build good roads and internet infrastructure so businesses can transport goods and innovate.
因此，政府没有足够的钱来做雷绍夫斯基所说的事情，用于教育，以便雇主可以雇用聪明的人才，用于建设良好的道路和互联网基础设施，以便企业可以运输货物和进行创新。
If you go with tax cuts, you might seduce some employers to hire now.
如果你支持减税，你可能会吸引一些雇主现在就雇用员工。
But you'll hurt future employers who needed you to spend on schools so they could find educated workers to come up with great new ideas.
但你会伤害未来的雇主，他们需要你在学校上花钱，这样他们才能找到受过教育的工人来提出伟大的新想法。
If you go with long-term spending, schools and internet, you have to increase taxes to pay for it, which can mean businesses on that job creation fence might be pushed to the anti-job-creating territory.
如果你选择长期支出、学校和互联网，你就必须增加税收来支付费用，这可能意味着处于创造就业围栏上的企业可能会被推向反创造就业的领域。
In both cases, you've zeroed out your efforts.
在这两种情况下，你的努力都归零了。
You've had some effect on the one side but canceled it out with what you did on the other side.
你在一方面产生了一些影响，但在另一方面却抵消了它。
But that's the choice you have, long-term or short-term.
但这是你的选择，无论是长期还是短期。
Whether the governor is Democrat or Republican, someone you love or someone you hate, politicians don't have a lot of options.
无论州长是民主党还是共和党，无论你爱谁还是恨谁，政客们都没有太多选择。
At best they'll get a bunch of new jobs for the somersaults it took to get there.
最好的情况是，他们会找到一堆新工作，以弥补他们为此经历的翻筋斗。
At worst, they had some impact, did something, but have no idea how to measure exactly what.
最坏的情况是，他们产生了一些影响，做了一些事情，但不知道如何准确衡量什么。
Chana Joffe-Walt.
查纳·乔夫-沃尔特。
She's part of our Plant Money team.
她是我们 Plant Money 团队的一员。
Planet Money is a co-production of our program and NPR News.
Planet Money 是我们的节目和 NPR 新闻的联合制作。
Coming up, Oklahoma versus California, and Oklahoma wins.
接下来，俄克拉荷马州对阵加利福尼亚州，俄克拉荷马州获胜。
That is in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
距离芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台一分钟后，我们的节目仍在继续。
It's This American Life, I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that team.
我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来该团队的各种不同类型的故事。
Today's show, how to create a job.
今天的节目是如何创造就业机会。
Good morning.
早上好。
Hi.
你好。
Ira Glass Tuesday, Holland, Michigan.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 星期二，密歇根州荷兰。
Deborah Ozga leads five people through a sea of cubicles to be interviewed for call center jobs at Novo 1.
Deborah Ozga 带领五名员工穿过一片小隔间，去参加 Novo 1 呼叫中心工作的面试。
People on headsets look up and watch them pass.
戴着耳机的人们抬头看着他们经过。
Not long ago, that was them.
不久前，就是他们。
The facility has gone from 10 employees last summer to 315 as of Tuesday.
截至周二，该工厂的员工人数已从去年夏天的 10 名增加到 315 名。
Novo 1 got a $1 million grant from the federal government and $115,000 tax abatement from the city to locate here in Holland to create those jobs.
Novo 1 获得了联邦政府 100 万美元的拨款和市政府 115,000 美元的减税，落户荷兰以创造这些就业机会。
Tuesday they were looking to hire 15 more people, which, in the current economy, seemed like it might be a nice thing to hear.
周二，他们计划再招聘 15 名员工，在当前的经济形势下，这似乎是一件好事。
So our producer Lisa Pollack went there to record.
所以我们的制作人丽莎·波拉克就去那里录音。
In the conference room, Deborah explains about the company and the positions that she's filling.
在会议室中，黛博拉介绍了公司以及她所填补的职位。
They're call center jobs doing roadside assistance.
他们的呼叫中心工作是提供路边援助。
The pay is $9 with full benefits, $10 if you do well in your first 90 days.
工资为 9 美元，包含全额福利；如果您在前 90 天表现良好，工资为 10 美元。
That's $20,800 a year.
也就是每年 20,800 美元。
Now, I'm going to point out these things and they're going to sound negative.
现在，我要指出这些事情，它们听起来会很消极。
But I want to be realistic about the job, because I don't want to sugarcoat anything.
但我想对这份工作保持现实，因为我不想粉饰任何事情。
She's explains that it's a job where you log in and out every time you take a break or go to the bathroom, that computers and phones are monitored, that you pay an $80 deposit for your headset, taken from your paycheck in two installments.
她解释说，在这份工作中，你每次休息或上厕所时都要登录和退出，电脑和电话都会受到监控，你要为耳机支付 80 美元的押金，这笔押金分两期从你的工资中扣除。
That it is a very structured job for people who thrive in a structured environment.
对于那些在结构化环境中茁壮成长的人来说，这是一项非常结构化的工作。
And then the interview begins.
然后采访开始。
And it's a group interview, all five people at once.
这是一次集体面试，五个人同时参加。
What I'm going to do, I have a series of questions, and I'm going to go around the room.
我要做什么，我有一系列问题，我要在房间里走一圈。
It's the same question for everybody.
这对每个人来说都是同样的问题。
But try to have your own answer.
但尝试有自己的答案。
When you're working in a contact center it can consist of both intense periods of activity often followed by no activity at all.
当您在联络中心工作时，可能会经历两个紧张的活动期，通常随后就完全没有活动。
I wouldn't ever say no activity.
我永远不会说没有活动。
But it can go to the other extreme.
但它也可能走向另一个极端。
How do you react in both of these situations?
在这两种情况下你有何反应？
Well, because I have a lot of years of call center experience--
嗯，因为我有多年的呼叫中心经验——
This woman was the oldest in the group, and the only one in a pantsuit, had one of those executive, leather notebook folder portfolio things with her, and seemed like a shoo-in.
这个女人是这群人中年龄最大的，也是唯一一个穿着裤装的人，她随身带着一件行政用的皮革笔记本、文件夹、文件夹，看起来稳操胜券。
It's been my experience in the past to use training materials while I'm in idle time, just to brush up on some of my skills.
我过去的经验是在闲暇时使用培训材料，只是为了温习一些技能。
A lot of times I like to try to review any notes I have, or maybe go back, if there's something that I haven't finished up on, to try to follow up on that.
很多时候，我喜欢尝试回顾我所拥有的任何笔记，或者如果有一些我还没有完成的事情，我可能会回去尝试跟进。
Once that gauntlet of an answer had been hurled-- in her downtime she simply does more work-- what's everyone else supposed to say?
一旦给出了答案——在她的休息时间，她只是做了更多的工作——其他人应该说什么？
I suppose I would do something similar, go through notes for training purposes, or review my previous phone calls.
我想我会做类似的事情，出于培训目的浏览笔记，或者回顾我之前的电话。
Just occupying the downtime in any facet that would be constructive for the company is what I would aim for.
我的目标就是把停工时间用于对公司有建设性的任何方面。
It doesn't hurt either that I'm OCD and extremely clean and tidy.
我有强迫症，而且非常干净整洁，这也没什么坏处。
Touche.
图切。
Where does anybody go from there?
人们从那里去哪里？
I would always first check to see if there's anything anyone else needed help with.
我总是会先检查是否还有其他人需要帮助。
If somebody else was overloaded, if there was a way to transfer their next call to my station instead.
如果其他人超载，是否有办法将他们的下一个呼叫转移到我的站。
When Deborah asked the group how they feel about working in a place that's so regimented, with strict attendance policies the way Nova 1 has, again they're being interviewed.
当黛博拉询问大家对于在一个像 Nova 1 那样严格管制、严格出勤政策的地方工作感觉如何时，他们再次接受了采访。
What are they going to say?
他们会说什么？
Honestly, I think that's a very good thing.
老实说，我认为这是一件非常好的事情。
Because having a good attendance policy makes sure that employees are actually serious about wanting to work here, and not just there for the paycheck.
因为良好的出勤政策可以确保员工真正认真地想要在这里工作，而不仅仅是为了薪水。
I don't like calling in, because I always feel bad for the other people.
我不喜欢打电话，因为我总是为别人感到难过。
I always think of the other people before myself.
我总是先考虑别人，再考虑自己。
There are three qualities that I strive for in the workplace-- punctuality, kindness, and being a team player above all else.
我在工作场所追求三种品质：准时、友善和团队合作精神。
And the fact that you guys have a strict attendance policy is a wonderful thing, because it weeds out the people who want to be there and who don't.
事实上，你们有严格的出勤政策，这是一件很棒的事情，因为它淘汰了那些想参加和不想参加的人。
Deborah did two group interviews on Tuesday, 13 people in all.
Deborah 周二进行了两次集体采访，总共 13 个人。
And a few hours after they left, Deborah sat down at her office [PHONE DIALING] for the moment of truth.
他们离开几个小时后，黛博拉坐在她的办公室[拨打电话]等待关键时刻。
Hi John, this is Deborah calling from Nova 1.
嗨约翰，我是黛博拉从 Nova 1 打来的电话。
How are you?
你好吗？
Good, good.
好，好。
Well, I wanted to give you a call to offer you a position here.
嗯，我想给你打电话，为你提供一个这里的职位。
Oh good, good.
哦，好，好。
I'm so glad.
我很高兴。
You sound a little excited about this.
听起来你对此有点兴奋。
Oh, that's so good to hear.
哦，很高兴听到这个消息。
I like when I hear that kind of answer.
我喜欢听到这样的答案。
I told her that it felt like a little weight has been lifted, and it definitely feels really good.
我告诉她，感觉好像减轻了一点重量，而且感觉真的很好。
This, of course, is John.
这当然是约翰。
He's 21, worked at a Pizza Hut, sold some vacuum cleaners on commission, worked at the mall during holidays.
他今年 21 岁，在必胜客工作，靠佣金销售一些吸尘器，假期时在商场工作。
He has never made over $8 an hour.
他每小时的收入从未超过 8 美元。
So he was pretty excited.
所以他非常兴奋。
It's just really relieving, because I haven't really found a good, solid job that would pay me decently, at least give me the hours that I needed.
这真的让我松了口气，因为我还没有真正找到一份好的、稳定的工作，能给我丰厚的报酬，至少能给我我需要的时间。
And I went in and did my best, and she called me.
我进去尽力了，然后她给我打电话。
It just felt so awesome.
感觉太棒了。
It felt really, really great.
感觉真的非常非常好。
The phone rang, and I answered it.
电话响了，我接听了。
And she says, "You have the position.
她说：“你有这个职位。
We want to offer it to you." You almost want to scream, "Yes, I'll take it!"
我们想把它提供给你。”你几乎想尖叫：“是的，我接受它！”
This is Heather, who's 30, worked at the photo studio in a Walmart for five years, but was laid off a year and half ago.
这是希瑟，30 岁，在沃尔玛的照相馆工作了五年，但一年半前被解雇。
Collected unemployment, which ran out in March.
失业救济金已于三月份用完。
Especially after I lost my unemployment, then I just pretty much started going for anything.
尤其是在我失业之后，我几乎开始追求任何事情。
If I even felt like I was even remotely qualified for it, I applied for it.
如果我觉得自己有一点资格，我就会申请。
I applied for janitorial, I applied at a dentist office, because they said that they would train in the different dental procedures that they would actually need help with.
我申请了清洁工，我在牙医诊所申请了，因为他们说他们会接受他们实际需要帮助的不同牙科手术的培训。
I had been let down so much, I didn't want to get my hopes up.
我已经非常失望了，我不想再抱希望了。
So pretty much as soon as she called me back, it was one of those things of, all right.
所以当她给我回电话时，这就是其中之一，好吧。
I tried to calm myself down a little bit at first so I didn't scream at the poor woman.
一开始我试图让自己平静下来，这样我就没有对那个可怜的女人尖叫。
Which brings us to act three, Job Fairies.
接下来我们进入第三幕，工作仙女。
If you think about it, who wants to create jobs?
如果你想一想，谁愿意创造就业机会？
Not businesses.
不是企业。
Most companies would love to do whatever they do with fewer people and fewer jobs.
大多数公司都愿意用更少的人和更少的工作来做他们想做的事情。
It would be cheaper.
会更便宜。
It's us who want more jobs, and the politicians we elect.
是我们想要更多的就业机会，也是我们选举的政客。
And the people who work for those politicians who are supposed to do the dirty work and make the magic happen, make the jobs appear, these are the economic development officers.
那些为政客工作的人应该做肮脏的工作，让奇迹发生，让就业机会出现，这些人就是经济发展官员。
And just about every town or county above a certain size, every state, has an economic development team going around trying to figure out how to get more jobs for the people who live in that place.
几乎每个达到一定规模的城镇或县、每个州都有一个经济发展团队，试图找出如何为居住在该地区的人们提供更多就业机会。
Julie Snyder and Planet Money's Adam Davidson spent some time at one of their conventions in San Diego for the International Economic Development Council.
朱莉·斯奈德 (Julie Snyder) 和 Planet Money 的亚当·戴维森 (Adam Davidson) 参加了在圣地亚哥举行的国际经济发展理事会会议。
When we got to the IEDC leadership conference at that Westin Hotel in San Diego a few months ago, the national unemployment rate was at 9.4%.
几个月前，当我们在圣地亚哥威斯汀酒店参加 IEDC 领导层会议时，全国失业率为 9.4%。
The US lost 6 and 1/2 million jobs in the last few years.
过去几年，美国失去了六又二百万个工作岗位。
I know.
我知道。
And we were thinking, god, these people are going to be so miserable.
我们在想，天哪，这些人将会如此悲惨。
These are the people on the front lines.
这些都是奋战在前线的人们。
They're counting jobs every day.
他们每天都在计算工作岗位。
So we figured the mood here would be really bleak.
所以我们认为这里的气氛会非常黯淡。
We were wrong.
我们错了。
The nice thing about Texas is we were not as negatively impacted as some of the rest of the states who had serious unemployment.
德克萨斯州的好处是，我们没有像其他一些失业严重的州那样受到负面影响。
Casper, Wyoming, things are going very well, as a matter of fact.
事实上，怀俄明州的卡斯珀，一切进展顺利。
We were very fortunate to not get hit in the recession as hard as many other parts of the country.
我们非常幸运，没有像该国许多其他地区那样在经济衰退中受到严重打击。
Nashville is a really interesting economy.
纳什维尔是一个非常有趣的经济体。
It's incredibly diverse.
它非常多样化。
So we haven't been has whacked by the recession as a lot of communities.
因此，我们并没有像许多社区那样受到经济衰退的打击。
And that's very true at Augusta.
在奥古斯塔也是如此。
We were not affected by the recession as much a lot of communities.
我们没有像许多社区那样受到经济衰退的影响。
This, I swear, is only a small sample of all of the times Adam and I were assured that not only are Casper, Nashville, and Augusta doing great, but it's boom time in Houston, Oklahoma City, Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, Rio Rancho, New Mexico.
我发誓，这只是亚当和我每次都确信的一小部分，不仅卡斯珀、纳什维尔和奥古斯塔表现出色，而且休斯顿、俄克拉荷马城、杰斐逊教区、路易斯安那州、里奥兰乔、新墨西哥州也正处于繁荣时期。
Everybody, every single person told us about their great, great economy.
每个人都向我们讲述了他们伟大的经济。
The moment for me when I realized oh, they're lying, or at least oh, they're spinning, was when the economic development person from Saginaw, Michigan, was telling me how great things are going there.
当我意识到哦，他们在撒谎，或者至少哦，他们在旋转时，来自密歇根州萨吉诺的经济发展人士告诉我那里的情况有多么美好。
At that moment, Saginaw had an unemployment rate well above 13%.
当时，萨吉诺的失业率远高于 13%。
That is way worse than the national average.
这比全国平均水平差很多。
The FBI says Saginaw is the number one most violent city in America.
联邦调查局称萨吉诺是美国暴力最严重的城市之一。
We heard so much boosterism at this conference.
我们在这次会议上听到了很多支持的声音。
It turns out getting jobs to your city is a lot like dating.
事实证明，在你所在的城市找工作很像约会。
You want to act like the last thing in the world you need are jobs in your town.
你想要表现得就像世界上你最不需要的就是你所在城镇的工作一样。
Your city is so cool, so in demand, so business friendly that jobs are everywhere.
你的城市太酷了，需求太旺盛，商业环境太友好，工作机会无处不在。
There's a lot of manufacturing in Augusta.
奥古斯塔有很多制造业。
There's a huge Procter & Gamble plant there, all the Tide and Cheer detergent in the world is made in Augusta.
那里有一个巨大的宝洁公司工厂，世界上所有的汰渍和欢乐洗涤剂都是在奥古斯塔生产的。
This is this guy Walter Sprouse from Augusta, Georgia.
这是来自佐治亚州奥古斯塔的沃尔特·斯普罗斯（Walter Sprouse）。
He literally talked for a straight minute and a half listing off all of the companies in the Augusta area.
他连续讲了一分半钟，列出了奥古斯塔地区的所有公司。
E-Z-GO, Club Car, John Deere, all these companies are located in Augusta in addition to the ones I talking about with Proctor & Gamble.
E-Z-GO、Club Car、约翰迪尔，除了我谈到的宝洁公司之外，所有这些公司都位于奥古斯塔。
And NutraSweet is headquartered there.
NutraSweet 的总部也设在那里。
Yeah, he's showing that he's business friendly.
是的，他表现出了他对商业的友好态度。
That's the key for economic development.
这是经济发展的关键。
If you have a lot of unemployment--
如果你有大量失业人员——
He's not done.
他还没有完成。
Walter Sprouse Solo Cup, all these companies.
沃尔特·斯普劳斯独奏杯，所有这些公司。
Automatic Data Processing employs about 1,000 people.
自动数据处理部门拥有约 1,000 名员工。
OK, OK, I get it.
好吧，好吧，我明白了。
But, of course, you don't want any business who might be thinking of coming to your town to hear that you have high unemployment, the people there are near depression levels.
但是，当然，您不希望任何可能考虑来到您所在城镇的企业听到您的失业率很高，那里的人们接近抑郁症水平。
Because that might signal that you're some lame loserville with high taxes, tons of regulation, or a low skill base, meaning people in your town are uneducated or stupid.
因为这可能表明你是一个蹩脚的失败者，税收高，监管重，或者技能基础低，这意味着你镇上的人没有受过教育或愚蠢。
So how do these people create jobs in their communities?
那么这些人如何在他们的社区创造就业机会呢？
First they do something that they like to call business attraction.
首先，他们做了一些他们喜欢称之为商业吸引的事情。
Yeah, that's what they call it, business attraction.
是的，这就是他们所说的，商业吸引力。
I came up with a different word.
我想出了一个不同的词。
I call it stealing.
我称之为偷窃。
They're trying to steal jobs from each other.
他们试图从对方那里抢工作。
After a few hours, I was thinking this conference is like a convention of incredibly collegial pickpockets.
几个小时后，我觉得这次会议就像是一个令人难以置信的大学扒手的会议。
Everyone's politely sharing tricks of the trade, telling war stories, and all the time they're sizing each other up, figuring out, hey, what has that guy got that I could steal?
每个人都礼貌地分享交易技巧，讲述战争故事，他们一直在互相打量，弄清楚，嘿，那个家伙有什么我可以偷的东西？
The economic developers definitely did not like to talk about stealing.
经济发展者肯定不喜欢谈论偷窃。
When it would come up, they would smile awkwardly and try and change the conversation.
当这个问题出现时，他们会尴尬地微笑，并试图改变话题。
Let's go back around to listing all the advantages of their city.
让我们回过头来列出他们城市的所有优势。
That's basically what Janet Miller did, the head of Nashville's Chamber of Commerce, when I asked her about stealing.
当我向纳什维尔商会会长珍妮特·米勒询问偷窃问题时，她基本上就是这么做的。
But she did admit it's her job to pay attention to what's going on in other places.
但她确实承认关注其他地方正在发生的事情是她的工作。
But we watch things.
但我们会观察事物。
I mean, Illinois raised their income tax.
我的意思是，伊利诺伊州提高了所得税。
The legislature voted last week on that.
立法机关上周对此进行了投票。
And there was a lot of chatter in the economic development online community about opportunity.
经济发展在线社区中有很多关于机会的讨论。
And you hate to feel like you're preying off of other people's misfortune.
而且你讨厌感觉自己正在利用别人的不幸。
But the reality of it is there are going to be corporations that are going to seek more pro-business environments.
但现实情况是，有些公司将寻求更加有利于商业的环境。
And so you want to be ahead of the curve if that's the case.
因此，如果是这种情况，您希望走在前面。
Nashville took some hits during the recession, primarily in manufacturing.
纳什维尔在经济衰退期间遭受了一些打击，主要是在制造业。
But it's a powerhouse for health care companies and, of course, music and entertainment.
但它是医疗保健公司、当然还有音乐和娱乐公司的强大动力。
Now Janet is focusing her business attraction skills on those two industries.
现在珍妮特将她的商业吸引技能集中在这两个行业。
She doesn't always expect whole companies will move, but maybe she can get one department or a growing division to relocate.
她并不总是期望整个公司都会搬迁，但也许她可以让一个部门或一个不断扩大的部门搬迁。
Honestly, once I leave here, I'm going to meet our mayor in LA, and we're going to see entertainment companies that are LA-based that either have Nashville operations or that we'd like to have Nashville operations.
老实说，一旦我离开这里，我将在洛杉矶会见我们的市长，我们将看到总部位于洛杉矶的娱乐公司要么在纳什维尔开展业务，要么我们希望在纳什维尔开展业务。
Then we're going on to San Francisco and focusing entirely on health care.
然后我们将前往旧金山并完全专注于医疗保健。
You really got the sense that the number one activity for economic development people all over the country is to figure out, how do I steal companies away from California?
你确实感觉到，全国各地经济发展人士的首要活动就是弄清楚，如何从加州窃取公司？
California is, of course, the most populated state, the biggest economy in the US.
当然，加利福尼亚州是美国人口最多的州，也是美国最大的经济体。
And it's got some of the strictest regulations in the country, some of the highest taxes.
它有一些全国最严格的法规，一些最高的税收。
I met this one woman, Ioanna Morfessis, from Phoenix.
我遇到了一位来自凤凰城的女士，艾奥安娜·莫菲西斯 (Ioanna Morfessis)。
She used to run the Greater Phoenix Economic Development team.
她曾领导大凤凰城经济发展团队。
And she was the one person who loved talking about how much fun it was to steal jobs from California.
她是一个喜欢谈论从加州偷工作是多么有趣的人。
All is fair in love, war, resumes, and economic development.
爱情、战争、履历、经济发展一切都是公平的。
Because you guys, a big part of your job is to convince companies to come.
因为你们的工作很大一部分就是说服公司来。
Well, that's correct.
嗯，这是正确的。
Adam Davidson To steal companies.
亚当·戴维森 窃取公司。
Well, to the extent a company is going to leave, why not come to greater Phoenix?
那么，既然一家公司要离开，为什么不来大凤凰城呢？
We opened a full-time office in California and really worked the market hard.
我们在加利福尼亚州开设了一个全职办事处，并努力开拓市场。
You opened an office just to convince companies to leave California?
您开设办事处只是为了说服公司离开加州？
We had three people over there including myself, quite extensively.
我们那里有三个人，包括我自己，范围很广。
Wow.
哇。
How many companies did you get to come?
有多少家公司来了？
We probably opened it around 1990, early 1991.
我们大概是在1990年左右、1991年初开业的。
And we brought about 85 companies that represented employment probably around maybe a total of 20,000 jobs.
我们带来了大约 85 家公司，代表着就业岗位，总数可能约为 20,000 个。
Well, hey, that was then.
嗯，嘿，就是那时。
This is now.
这是现在。
Now they're skipping over Arizona, New Mexico, and they're going to Oklahoma.
现在他们将跳过亚利桑那州、新墨西哥州，前往俄克拉荷马州。
Oklahoma, the hero at this conference.
俄克拉荷马州是本次会议的英雄。
The most business-friendly state according to lots of the people who spoke here.
根据许多在这里发言的人的说法，这是最有利于商业发展的州。
Most of the country has been suffering, and Oklahoma's economy is on fire.
全国大部分地区都在遭受苦难，俄克拉荷马州的经济更是火爆。
Oklahoma City has been a leader in job growth.
俄克拉荷马城在就业增长方面一直处于领先地位。
Over the last five years, it was ranked America's most recession-proof city by Forbes magazine.
过去五年，它被《福布斯》杂志评为美国最能抵御经济衰退的城市。
Oklahoma city is known for what's called a low-cost, high-value combination.
俄克拉荷马城以低成本、高价值的组合而闻名。
And they're snagging jobs from across the country, making headlines last year when Boeing announced a plan to move 550 engineers there from Seattle.
他们正在从全国各地抢夺工作机会，去年波音公司宣布计划将 550 名工程师从西雅图调往那里时，他们成为了头条新闻。
This is what drove me crazy about this conference, actually about the whole profession of economic development.
这就是让我对这次会议、实际上对整个经济发展专业感到疯狂的原因。
They're not creating jobs.
他们没有创造就业机会。
They're just moving jobs around.
他们只是在转移工作。
Arizona steals a company from California by offering some tax break and lighter regulation.
亚利桑那州通过提供一些税收减免和更宽松的监管从加利福尼亚州窃取了一家公司。
Then Texas cuts taxes a bit more, does away with even more regulation, and gets the company to move there.
然后德克萨斯州进一步减税，取消更多监管，并让公司搬到那里。
That doesn't help anything.
那没有任何帮助。
We still have the same number of jobs.
我们的工作岗位数量仍然相同。
But now we have this race to the bottom.
但现在我们要进行一场逐底竞争。
Who can cut back government services the most?
谁能最大程度地削减政府服务？
Who can eliminate the most regulation?
谁能消除最多的监管？
Something else we learned here, economic development is actually really trendy work.
我们在这里还了解到，经济发展实际上是一项非常流行的工作。
Everyone gets obsessed by the same way of attracting businesses.
每个人都痴迷于同样的吸引企业的方式。
It used to be smokestack chasing, trying to get that one big factory to come to your town.
过去，人们总是在追逐烟囱，试图让一家大工厂来到你的城镇。
But then that one big factory ended up in China and places like that.
但后来那家大工厂最终落户中国和类似的地方。
Then the big trend was clusters, getting lots of the same kinds of companies in the same industry all in one place, you know, like Silicon Valley.
然后大趋势是集群，将同一行业的许多同类公司聚集在一个地方，你知道，就像硅谷一样。
Suddenly every small town with a junior college was announcing we're going to become a major biotech cluster.
突然间，每个拥有专科学校的小镇都宣布我们将成为一个主要的生物技术集群。
Which then leads to the next big trend.
这将导致下一个大趋势。
Creative cities, modeled after places like Austin, Texas, create a quote unquote "cool place for people to live." The young and smart will flock there.
创意城市以德克萨斯州奥斯汀等地为蓝本，创造了一个名副其实的“人们居住的酷地方”。年轻人和聪明人将涌向那里。
They'll open a coffee shop.
他们会开一家咖啡店。
They'll open a tattoo parlor.
他们会开一家纹身店。
And hopefully those crazy kids will start to build a tech empire.
希望那些疯狂的孩子们能够开始建立一个科技帝国。
You know, I've always said it, Julie.
你知道，我一直这么说，朱莉。
Tattoo parlors means massive economic growth.
纹身店意味着巨大的经济增长。
The next wave, the one just getting popular now, has kind of a dorky name.
下一波浪潮，即现在刚刚流行的浪潮，有一个有点愚蠢的名字。
Economic gardening.
经济园艺。
But the idea is forget about bringing the big, established companies to your town.
但我们的想法是忘记将大型、成熟的公司引入您的城镇。
Help the people who already live there become entrepreneurs, start their own businesses.
帮助已经居住在那里的人们成为企业家，创办自己的企业。
This involves a lot of small, painstaking work, gathering market research for local businesses, helping them look for expansion opportunities, set them up with small business loans, things like that.
这涉及大量的小而艰苦的工作，为当地企业收集市场研究，帮助他们寻找扩张机会，为他们提供小企业贷款，诸如此类。
I talked to Robert Barnes, an economic developer from Casper, Wyoming, and told him I thought it seemed like a lot of work for maybe a small return.
我与来自怀俄明州卡斯珀的经济开发商罗伯特·巴恩斯进行了交谈，并告诉他我认为这似乎是一项艰巨的工作，但回报可能很小。
But he disagreed.
但他不同意。
Because companies that grow in a community tend to stay in the community.
因为在社区中成长的公司往往会留在社区中。
Is that frustrating, though?
但这令人沮丧吗？
Because really you could do a ton of work-- help them secure loans, help them with expertise on getting going-- but five years from now they still could only be 15 people.
因为实际上你可以做大量的工作——帮助他们获得贷款，帮助他们获得创业所需的专业知识——但五年后他们仍然只能是 15 个人。
Thank you, we'll take 15 jobs in a new company, absolutely.
谢谢，我们绝对会在新公司招聘 15 个职位。
Really, you don't mind?
真的，你不介意吗？
Robert Barnes Absolutely.
罗伯特·巴恩斯 绝对的。
Why would we mind?
我们为什么会介意？
Why would we mind having a new company?
我们为什么介意成立一家新公司？
Well, a few things we want to talk about.
好吧，我们想谈谈一些事情。
Those days of large announcements-- 2,000 jobs, 1,000 jobs-- the life cycle has changed.
那些发布重大公告的日子——2,000 个工作岗位、1,000 个工作岗位——生命周期已经改变。
At one point in our economy that was true.
在我们的经济中，曾经有过这样的情况。
Now they're very, very rare.
现在它们非常非常稀有。
We will take 15 jobs.
我们将招聘15个工作岗位。
When I learned about this, the economic gardening entrepreneurship approach, I loved it.
当我了解到经济园艺创业方法时，我很喜欢它。
Because if it works, it actually is increasing the number of jobs in the world.
因为如果它有效，它实际上会增加世界上的就业机会。
It's making the country richer.
它让国家变得更加富裕。
Yeah, we couldn't get an answer to that question, could we?
是的，我们无法得到这个问题的答案，不是吗？
This turned out to be a major issue for economic development people.
事实证明，这对经济发展人员来说是一个重大问题。
Because they just don't know how to count those jobs.
因为他们只是不知道如何计算这些工作。
In fact, they're so obsessed with it, there were two separate sessions at this conference devoted to figuring out how to solve this problem.
事实上，他们对此非常着迷，在这次会议上举行了两次单独的会议，专门讨论如何解决这个问题。
I can tell you that for every dollar in investment that I've made, I returned $72 to the local economy.
我可以告诉你，我每投资 1 美元，就会为当地经济带来 72 美元的回报。
This is Tim Chase, head of the Chamber of Commerce in Wichita Falls, Texas.
我是蒂姆·蔡斯，德克萨斯州威奇托福尔斯商会会长。
And he runs this committee of economic developers.
他领导着这个经济发展委员会。
They're trying to solve this problem.
他们正在努力解决这个问题。
It's not just how do we count the jobs we create through economic gardening.
这不仅仅是我们如何计算通过经济园艺创造的就业机会。
Perhaps more importantly, it's how do we convince our bosses we're creating jobs through economic gardening?
也许更重要的是，我们如何说服老板我们正在通过经济园艺创造就业机会？
Be very careful that your leadership and their expectation for the reward ratio is in line with the realities of entrepreneurship versus expansion and recruitment.
请务必小心，确保您的领导力和他们对奖励比率的期望符合创业与扩张和招聘的现实情况。
But actually I don't understand what that means.
但实际上我不明白这意味着什么。
A reward ratio?
奖励比例？
I think, if I understand what he's saying correctly, is basically in this new world, where there aren't many big factories moving around, you've got to spend a lot more money and a lot more time to get a lot fewer jobs.
我想，如果我理解他的意思是正确的话，基本上在这个新世界里，没有很多大工厂在移动，你必须花费更多的钱和更多的时间来获得更少的工作。
That's a lower reward ratio.
这是一个较低的奖励比率。
And their expectation for the reward ratio is in line with the reality--
而他们对于奖励比例的预期也符合现实——
And you'd better hope that your bosses, your leadership, are OK with those realities, or the job you'll have to worry about the most will be your own.
你最好希望你的老板、你的领导能够接受这些现实，否则你最需要担心的工作将是你自己的。
I found this particular section the most revealing of the whole conference.
我发现这个特定的部分是整个会议中最具启发性的部分。
Because most of these economic developers come from places that have been losing jobs for years.
因为这些经济发展者大多来自多年来失业的地方。
And they really have one assignment, increase the number of jobs in your town.
他们确实有一项任务，那就是增加你所在城镇的就业机会。
And when you don't have a lot of success to show for it-- they're great at sales, they're great spinners-- but they really need to be able to prove to their bosses, hey, I'm worthwhile.
当你没有太多的成功来展示时——他们很擅长销售，他们是很棒的旋转工——但他们确实需要能够向他们的老板证明，嘿，我是值得的。
I'm doing something valuable to our community even if you can't see it, even if we have fewer jobs this year than we did last year.
我正在为我们的社区做一些有价值的事情，即使你看不到它，即使我们今年的工作岗位比去年少。
You and I had a different take on the conference, though.
不过，你和我对这次会议有不同的看法。
I left there thinking, good.
我离开那里想，很好。
These people are good.
这些人都很好。
I think it's good to support businesses.
我认为支持企业是件好事。
It's good to help them grow.
帮助他们成长是件好事。
It's good to be thinking about how to bring more jobs into the city in the future.
思考未来如何为这座城市带来更多就业机会是件好事。
Even more important now during a slowdown to be planning this stuff.
现在在经济放缓期间更重要的是规划这些东西。
I don't know, I didn't think they were evil or anything.
我不知道，我不认为他们是邪恶的或者什么的。
But I just felt like they're not making a big difference.
但我只是觉得他们并没有带来太大的改变。
We tried to figure this out.
我们试图解决这个问题。
We tried to measure the impact that all these economic development people have on the national economy.
我们试图衡量所有这些经济发展人员对国民经济的影响。
What we found is that there's no data.
我们发现没有数据。
There's no way to measure.
没有办法衡量。
Do they make America richer?
他们让美国变得更富有吗？
Do they make America poorer?
它们会让美国变得更穷吗？
Do they have no effect at all?
难道它们根本就没有任何作用吗？
OK, but we could find local numbers, local economic developers have those numbers.
好的，但我们可以找到当地的数字，当地的经济开发商有这些数字。
So let's use, for an example, Houston.
让我们以休斯顿为例。
Yeah, they're considered one of the best economic development teams in the country and one of the best economic development states.
是的，他们被认为是该国最好的经济发展团队之一，也是经济发展最好的州之一。
Yeah, so the guy who runs economic development there, he told me that they're doing great.
是的，负责那里经济发展的人告诉我，他们做得很好。
And because of an economic development plan that they've had in place, they're increasing the number of jobs in the Houston area by 140,000 jobs over a 10-year period.
由于他们已经制定了经济发展计划，他们将在 10 年内将休斯顿地区的就业机会增加 140,000 个。
They're halfway there into their plan now, and they're right on track.
他们的计划现在已完成一半，而且正走在正轨上。
All right so that they've created around 70,000 jobs over five years.
好吧，他们在五年内创造了大约 70,000 个就业岗位。
And that's great news for those 70,000.
这对于这 70,000 人来说是个好消息。
Let's do some math, though.
不过，让我们做一些数学计算。
That's around 14,000 jobs a year.
每年大约有 14,000 个工作岗位。
Now I looked it up.
现在我查了一下。
The Houston area has around 2.7 million jobs.
休斯顿地区拥有约 270 万个就业岗位。
So if their numbers are right, the economic development people added 1/2 of 1% of the jobs in Houston each year.
因此，如果他们的数字正确的话，经济发展人士每年会增加休斯顿 1% 的就业岗位的 1/2。
I also saw that Houston has 240,000 people who are out of work who are looking for work.
我还看到休斯顿有24万失业者正在寻找工作。
So it just shows you that economic development, even when it's at it's best, even when it's really, really successful, it's just not going to solve the fundamental problems of our economy.
所以它只是告诉你，经济发展，即使是在最好的时候，即使它真的非常成功，它也无法解决我们经济的根本问题。
And maybe that's just asking too much anyway.
也许这只是要求太多了。
I mean, most of these economic developers said that they're basically like the rest of us.
我的意思是，大多数经济开发者表示，他们基本上和我们其他人一样。
They're waiting.
他们在等待。
They're waiting and hoping that this economy will turn around, that companies will start doing better, and they'll start hiring again.
他们正在等待并希望经济能够好转，公司能够开始做得更好，并且他们能够重新开始招聘。
[MUSIC - "OKLAHOMA" BY THE ANSWERING MACHINE]
[音乐-答录机播放的“俄克拉荷马”]
OK, here's something I didn't know before we started working on this week's radio show.
好吧，在我们开始制作本周的广播节目之前，有一些我不知道的事情。
I knew that 9% of Americans are unemployed.
我知道 9% 的美国人失业。
But college graduates, their unemployment rate is half that, 4.5%.
但大学毕业生的失业率只有这个数字的一半，即 4.5%。
People with PhDs, it's even better, 2% unemployment.
有博士学位的人，那就更好了，2%的失业率。
High school grads are right near the national average, 9.7% unemployment.
高中毕业生失业率接近全国平均水平，即 9.7%。
And people who did not graduate high school, their unemployment rate is almost 15%, which means the unemployment problem in this country is mostly a problem for the uneducated, the unskilled.
而高中未毕业的人，失业率几乎达到15%，这意味着这个国家的失业问题主要是未受过教育、无技能的人的问题。
And what's strange is that those economic development people that Adam and Julie just talked to, they are mostly focused on attracting jobs for the highly educated, for people with at least college degrees.
奇怪的是，亚当和朱莉刚刚交谈过的那些经济发展人士，他们主要关注的是为受过高等教育、至少拥有大学学位的人吸引就业机会。
In putting together this week's show, we spent a lot of time looking for some economic development person, some politician, who's trying to attract or help businesses that specifically employ the population that needs the jobs the most, the undereducated.
在整理本周的节目时，我们花了很多时间寻找一些经济发展人士、一些政治家，他们试图吸引或帮助专门雇用最需要工作的人口（即受教育程度较低的人口）的企业。
We reached out to industry groups.
我们联系了行业团体。
We called people around the country.
我们给全国各地的人们打电话。
We couldn't find anybody specifically trying to attract jobs for this group.
我们找不到任何人专门试图为这个群体吸引就业机会。
But what does exist for this population are programs that try to transform those high school dropouts into people with the skills that employers are looking for.
但针对这一人群确实存在一些计划，试图将这些高中辍学者转变为拥有雇主所需技能的人。
Adam Davidson visited one of these programs in Rochester, New York, to see it in action.
亚当·戴维森 (Adam Davidson) 参观了纽约州罗彻斯特的其中一个项目，亲眼目睹了它的实际效果。
Pathstone is a large nonprofit that tries to get jobs for the people who have the hardest time getting employed, former drug dealers, high school dropouts, people with prison records.
Pathstone 是一家大型非营利组织，致力于为那些最难就业的人、前毒贩、高中辍学生、有监狱记录的人找到工作。
So is everybody at step nine?
那么大家都到了第九步了吗？
OK.
好的。
You guys also have a blank piece of paper, right?
你们也有一张白纸，对吗？
So what I need you guys to do is you're going to fold this into 16 pieces.
所以我需要你们做的就是把它折成 16 份。
Danielle Johnson is teaching a class that's part of the Pathways Out of Poverty program.
丹妮尔·约翰逊正在教授一门课程，该课程是“摆脱贫困之路”计划的一部分。
This session has about 15 people, most of them women, mostly in their 20s.
这次会议约有 15 人，其中大多数是女性，年龄大多在 20 多岁。
There are a few guys with prison records, a few older people.
有几个有监狱记录的人，还有一些年纪较大的人。
The first class focuses on the most basic of life skills, like identifying what it is you want out of life.
第一堂课侧重于最基本的生活技能，比如确定你想要从生活中得到什么。
OK, so what you want to is open the piece of paper, and for about that next, I'll say three to five minutes, I want you to write in the boxes things that you want.
好的，所以你想要的是打开这张纸，接下来，我会说三到五分钟，我希望你在盒子里写下你想要的东西。
You know, do you want a vacation?
你知道吗，你想要休假吗？
Everybody should be, I want to me working, employment, anything that you want.
每个人都应该是，我希望我工作、就业，任何你想要的东西。
The main thing going on here is just a weeding people out, the people who can't show up on time, or can't act appropriately, or who wear the kind of clothes that employers would not want.
这里发生的主要事情就是淘汰那些不能按时上班、不能表现得当、或者穿着雇主不想要的衣服的人。
A big issue, they tell me, is basic hygiene.
他们告诉我，一个大问题是基本卫生。
They need to teach some students about deodorant.
他们需要教一些学生有关除臭剂的知识。
The idea is, if you can't behave correctly in this class, we're not going to recommend you for a job.
我们的想法是，如果你在这门课上表现不佳，我们就不会推荐你工作。
The other big challenge?
另一个大挑战是什么？
Getting the people in class to think long-term, to understand that sacrifices today can mean good things in the future.
让班上的人进行长远思考，了解今天的牺牲可能意味着未来的美好事物。
The things that I want in my life.
我一生中想要的东西。
One, I would like to be working.
一、我想工作。
I would like to go see my boyfriend up north.
我想去北方看看我的男朋友。
Is he in prison?
他在监狱里吗？
Unemployed Woman Yeah.
失业妇女 是啊。
I want to get my GED.
我想获得 GED。
I want to own my own business.
我想拥有自己的事业。
I want to go on a vacation with my family.
我想和家人一起去度假。
I want a car.
我想要一辆车。
I want a baby one day.
有一天我想要一个孩子。
I want to fly on an airplane and face my fears.
我想乘坐飞机并面对我的恐惧。
I want some candy.
我想要一些糖果。
I want to spend the night with Plies.
我想和普利斯一起过夜。
Who is Plies?
普利斯是谁？
Unemployed Woman He's a rapper.
失业的女人他是一名说唱歌手。
It's my favorite artist.
这是我最喜欢的艺术家。
The students who make it on time most days, who show the teacher they can behave, dress, wash, they get to graduate to phase two.
那些大多数时候都准时上课，向老师展示他们可以表现得好、穿好、洗漱的学生，他们就可以毕业进入第二阶段。
Of the 170 students who started the two-week class, 88 graduated to phase two.
在开始为期两周的课程的 170 名学生中，有 88 人毕业进入第二阶段。
In phase two you get some training in things like energy efficient construction techniques.
在第二阶段，您将接受一些有关节能建筑技术等方面的培训。
Of the 88 people who started, 45 finished that second course, and now get paid around $12 an hour to do things like weatherize homes, you know, spray insulation in old houses to make them more energy efficient.
在 88 名开始的人中，有 45 人完成了第二门课程，现在每小时获得约 12 美元的报酬，做一些事情，比如对房屋进行防风雨，你知道，在老房子里喷洒隔热材料以提高能源效率。
All of this-- the classes, the weatherizing jobs-- are paid for by a multimillion dollar stimulus package grant from the US Department of Labor to simultaneously promote employment and green technology.
所有这些——课程、耐候工作——都是由美国劳工部提供的数百万美元的刺激计划拨款支付的，以同时促进就业和绿色技术。
That means that when the grant runs out in early 2012, those jobs will go away.
这意味着当补助金在 2012 年初用完时，这些工作岗位将会消失。
By that point, the government will have spent $2 million to create 90 jobs.
到那时，政府将花费 200 万美元创造 90 个就业岗位。
That's around $22,000 a job.
每份工作的工资约为 22,000 美元。
Rochester actually has some really good jobs.
罗切斯特实际上有一些非常好的工作。
The big companies in town-- Kodak, Xerox, Bausch and Lomb-- created this cluster of companies that deal with lenses, camera lenses, copier lens, contact lenses.
镇上的大公司——柯达、施乐、博士伦——创建了这个经营镜头、相机镜头、复印机镜头、隐形眼镜的公司集群。
And lenses are really hot business right now.
镜片现在确实是一个热门生意。
Every phone's got one, every computer, DVD player, scanner.
每部手机、每台电脑、DVD 播放器、扫描仪都有。
Around 1/3 of the people at these companies have advanced degrees like PhDs in optical engineering to do research into new lens technology.
这些公司大约 1/3 的员工拥有光学工程博士学位等高级学位，可以研究新的镜头技术。
But 1/3 to 1/2 of the jobs in these companies are for people who don't even have BAs-- high school grads, even some people with GEDs.
但这些公司 1/3 到 1/2 的工作岗位是为那些甚至没有学士学位的人——高中毕业生，甚至一些拥有 GED 的人。
And those jobs pay pretty well.
而且这些工作的薪水相当不错。
Even with just a high school degree, you could easily make $50,000 a year.
即使只有高中学历，你也可以轻松一年赚到 50,000 美元。
And in Rochester, that's solidly middle class.
在罗彻斯特，那是绝对的中产阶级。
And that's what Pathstone wants for their clients.
这就是 Pathstone 希望为客户提供的服务。
Their most ambitious goal is to get the graduates from the weatherizing program to eventually get those good paying jobs in the lens business.
他们最雄心勃勃的目标是让耐候项目的毕业生最终在镜片行业找到高薪工作。
They worked with Monroe Community College to develop some training programs.
他们与门罗社区学院合作开发了一些培训项目。
I talked to Tom Finch from Monroe.
我和门罗的汤姆·芬奇谈过。
And he says they are fully focused on getting this population jobs in those high-tech areas.
他说，他们完全专注于在这些高科技领域为这些人提供就业机会。
Lasers, photonics, optics.
激光、光子学、光学。
Adam Davidson Is it realistic to think that some of the folks, some of the Pathstone clients, is that a reasonable goal for them to work in those fields?
亚当·戴维森 (Adam Davidson) 认为某些人、某些 Pathstone 客户在这些领域工作的合理目标是否现实？
Absolutely.
绝对地。
It's already happened.
这已经发生了。
Over the last two years, we've been very successful in creating an optics apprenticeship program.
在过去的两年里，我们非常成功地创建了光学学徒计划。
And primarily, the students that participated in that program were either laid off, or out of high school in search of a GED.
主要是，参加该计划的学生要么被解雇，要么从高中毕业去寻求 GED。
How many people are in that?
那里面有多少人？
Tom Finch The original program I believe graduated nine.
汤姆·芬奇（Tom Finch） 我相信最初的计划已毕业九年。
But as a first time, a pilot program, nine is a very strong number.
但作为第一次试点计划，九是一个非常强大的数字。
I think we started with 12, finished 9.
我想我们一开始是 12 个，最后是 9 个。
I have to say, it's nine more than I imagined was possible.
我不得不说，这比我想象的多了九个。
Sure.
当然。
Adam Davidson But how many people are in need?
亚当·戴维森 但是有多少人需要帮助呢？
Tens of thousands?
几万？
Hundreds of thousands?
几十万？
Could you get it to tens of thousands?
能达到几万吗？
Tens of thousands in optics, and lasers, and in photonics, I think it would be a stretch.
在光学、激光和光子学领域有数以万计的人，我认为这将是一个延伸。
Most of the students at Pathstone, their parents or grandparents came to Rochester in the 1960s and '70s.
Pathstone 的大多数学生及其父母或祖父母在 20 世纪 60 年代和 70 年代来到罗切斯特。
That was when Rochester was one of those incredible places where everyone who wanted a job could have a job.
那时罗切斯特是一个令人难以置信的地方，每个想要工作的人都可以找到工作。
Kodak, Xerox, Bausch and Lomb, they just needed bodies to work their factories.
柯达、施乐、博士伦，他们只需要人来工厂工作。
One guy at Pathstone told me how his mom and uncles moved to Rochester from West Virginia to get away from the coal mines.
Pathstone 的一位员工告诉我，他的妈妈和叔叔是如何从西弗吉尼亚州搬到罗切斯特以远离煤矿的。
They didn't have a lot of education.
他们没有受过太多教育。
But they came to town, and right away everyone got good jobs at Kodak.
但他们来到城里后，立刻每个人都在柯达找到了好工作。
They were able to buy their own houses, take vacations, live a real middle class life.
他们能够购买自己的房子，享受假期，过上真正的中产阶级生活。
That just doesn't exist anymore.
那已经不存在了。
But not for the reasons you think.
但不是因为你想的原因。
It's not true, even though you hear it all the time, that the US doesn't make stuff anymore.
尽管你一直听到这样的说法，美国不再生产东西了，但这并不是真的。
We're still the world's number one manufacturer, although China will probably edge us out sometime this year.
我们仍然是世界第一大制造商，尽管今年某个时候中国可能会超越我们。
We still have lots of factories turning out lots and lots of stuff.
我们仍然有很多工厂生产很多很多的东西。
But pretty much everyone in those factories needs to have some basic math proficiency.
但这些工厂里的几乎每个人都需要具备一些基本的数学能力。
They need to be trusted with expensive, precision equipment.
他们需要信赖昂贵、精密的设备。
You're probably not getting a factory job if you don't have at least a high school degree and some advanced technical training.
如果您至少没有高中学历和一些高级技术培训，您可能无法找到工厂工作。
The experts call it high school plus.
专家称之为高中+。
If you don't have a high school degree plus some more training, some more specialized skill, you are increasingly locked out of the middle class.
如果你没有高中学历，加上更多的培训和更专业的技能，你就会越来越被排除在中产阶级之外。
And that's a lot of people, 80 million Americans over 25.
这个数字很大，25 岁以上的美国人有 8000 万。
That's 40% of the adult population are in that group.
40% 的成年人属于这一群体。
Having some training or education after high school used to be a great way, one of the most reliable ways, to make it into the middle class.
高中毕业后接受一些培训或教育曾经是进入中产阶级的好方法，也是最可靠的方法之一。
But over the next few years, more and more, it'll be the only way.
但在接下来的几年里，这将越来越成为唯一的方法。
Adam Davidson from the Planet Money team.
来自 Planet Money 团队的 Adam Davidson。
Their free podcast and blog is at www.npr.org/money.
他们的免费播客和博客位于 www.npr.org/money。
Planet Money also has the cover story in the June issue of Wired magazine.
《Planet Money》还登上了《连线》杂志六月号的封面故事。
Well, our program was produced today by our senior producer, Julie Snyder, and Adam Davidson, with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Jane Feltes, Sarah Koenig, Jonathan Menjivar, Lisa Pollak, Robyn Semien, and Alissa Shipp.
嗯，我们的节目今天由我们的高级制片人 Julie Snyder 和 Adam Davidson 以及 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Jane Feltes、Sarah Koenig、Jonathan Menjivar、Lisa Pollak、Robyn Semien 和 Alissa Shipp 制作。
Production help from Eric Mennel.
埃里克·门内尔 (Eric Mennel) 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our production manager.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的生产经理。
Emily Condon's our office manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的办公室经理。
Jen Berman's filling in as our West Coast producer.
珍·伯曼 (Jen Berman) 担任我们的西海岸制片人。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, which has all kinds of new features as of this week, thisamericanlife.org.
[致谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，截至本周已具有各种新功能。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our show by our boss Torey Malatia, who was upset when I showed up at work yesterday late, mean, and just wanting to be left alone.
WBEZ 的老板 Torey Malatia 对我们的节目进行了管理监督，当我昨天上班迟到时，他很生气，很刻薄，只想一个人呆着。
There are three qualities that I strive for in a workplace-- punctuality, kindness, and being a team player above all else.
我在工作场所追求三种品质：准时、友善和团队合作精神。
Oh well.
那好吧。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。