434: This Week - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #434 | May 6, 2011 434: This Week Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 434 集 | 2011 年 5 月 6 日 434：本周 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass This past Monday, a guy named Dan Curry got into his car to drive across the country from the East Coast to California alone.
序言 Ira Glass 上周一，一个名叫 Dan Curry 的家伙独自开车从东海岸穿越整个国家来到加利福尼亚。
And to pass the time, he brought along 16 hours of Spanish language lessons on CD.
为了打发时间，他带来了 16 个小时的西班牙语课程 CD。
I reached him in his car on Wednesday.
周三我开着他的车找到了他。
Donde esta-- oh, god.
Donde esta——哦，上帝。
I know what that means.
我知道那意味着什么。
What's it mean?
是什么意思呢？
Dan Curry Donde esta.
丹·库里 (Dan Curry) 东德 (Donde)
You.
你。
It means, where are you?
意思是，你在哪里？
When I reached Dan, the answer was Odessa, Texas.
当我联系丹时，答案是德克萨斯州的敖德萨。
He was just outside Odessa, Texas.
他就在德克萨斯州敖德萨郊外。
It was actually kind of a big moment for him.
这对他来说实际上是一个重要时刻。
After 14 hours of listening and practicing Spanish out loud with his CDs, he had just tried out his Spanish for the very first time with a person, an actual person, a Spanish speaking person.
经过 14 个小时的聆听和用 CD 大声练习西班牙语之后，他刚刚第一次与一个人、一个真实的人、一个说西班牙语的人一起尝试西班牙语。
He was ordering lunch.
他正在点午餐。
I pulled up to a place.
我把车停到一个地方。
It's a little stand.
这是一个小立场。
They had a little drive-in, drive through area.
他们有一个小汽车驶入区。
So I went and ordered two pollas, pollo tacos and un-- I did it all en espanol-- and un carne asada.
所以我去点了两份pollas、pollo tacos和un--我都是用西班牙语做的--还有un carne asada。
And it should've been about $4 or $5.
应该是 4 或 5 美元左右。
But the girl, she was bilingual, kind of rolled her eyes when I was talking.
但是那个女孩，她会说两种语言，当我说话时，她有点翻白眼。
She said something to me in Spanish.
她用西班牙语对我说了些什么。
And I said, "Oh, si, si, si." And I ended up buying $26 worth of stuff.
我说：“哦，是，是，是。”我最终买了价值 26 美元的东西。
Instead of getting two chicken tacos, I got eight.
我没有买两个鸡肉炸玉米饼，而是买了八个。
The carne asada, what I got was a big vat of it.
Carne asada，我得到的是一大桶。
It was about $19, and all these shells.
大约 19 美元，还有这些贝壳。
I was too embarrassed, so I bought them.
我太尴尬了，所以我就买了。
I said, "Quiero caliente--" And I didn't know the word for sauce.
我说，“Quiero caliente——”我不知道酱汁这个词。
I haven't learned the word sauce yet.
我还没学会酱这个词。
So I said "sauce." And she switched to English at that point for me.
所以我说“酱”。那时她为我改用英语。
Wait, the word for sauce is salsa.
等等，酱汁这个词是莎莎酱。
Haven't you heard the word salsa?
你没听过萨尔萨舞这个词吗？
Salsa is sau-- Oh, salsa means sauce?
Salsa 是 sau——哦，salsa 的意思是酱汁？
I thought salsa meant salsa.
我以为萨尔萨舞就是萨尔萨舞。
I'm scared.
我很害怕。
Ruby's Father I got you.
鲁比的父亲，我找到你了。
Put your feet on the pedal.
将脚放在踏板上。
I got you.
我接到你了。
Don't let go.
不要放手。
Ira Glass Sunday, in suburban New Jersey, eight-year-old Ruby Melman went out with her mom and dad to try-- this was her second attempt-- to learn to ride a bike.
艾拉·格拉斯周日，在新泽西州郊区，八岁的鲁比·梅尔曼和她的父母一起出去尝试——这是她第二次尝试——学习骑自行车。
Her dad ran along beside her, holding the handle bars.
她的父亲握着车把，在她身边跑着。
Keep going.
继续前进。
Pedal, pedal.
踏板，踏板。
Oh, Ruby, you've got to pedal.
哦，鲁比，你必须踩踏板。
Why are you stopping?
你为什么停下来？
Because it's scaring me.
因为它让我害怕。
Ira Glass It took about a half an hour for her to get it.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）大约花了半个小时才拿到。
Good.
好的。
You've got to pedal OK?
你必须踩踏板好吗？
Ruby Melman Let go.
鲁比·梅尔曼 放手吧。
You're not pedaling enough.
你踩踏板还不够。
Ruby's Mother And keep your eyes up, Ruby.
鲁比的母亲 鲁比，请睁大眼睛。
Look forward.
期待。
Look ahead.
展望。
Good, good.
好，好。
Ruby's Mother There you go.
鲁比的妈妈 就这样吧。
Good job!
好工作！
Pedal, pedal.
踏板，踏板。
Ruby's Mother You got it!
鲁比的妈妈 你明白了！
Keep going, keep going.
继续，继续。
Did you do it?
你做到了吗？
Yes!
是的！
Ruby's Father That was really good, Ruby.
鲁比的父亲 这真是太好了，鲁比。
OK, let's try it again.
好的，我们再试一次。
Beau O'reilly So I'm going to ride around the corner.
Beau O'reilly 所以我要骑车绕过拐角处。
So this is the first time you're getting on a bike since when?
那么这是您第一次骑自行车，从什么时候开始？
This is the first time in almost four years, three and a half, four years.
这是近四年、三年半、四年以来的第一次。
Let's see if I can--
让我们看看我是否可以——
Saturday, on the north side of Chicago, my friend Beau O'Reilly, age 56, is getting on a bike again for the first time since he had both his knees replaced.
周六，在芝加哥北部，我 56 岁的朋友博·奥莱利 (Beau O'Reilly) 自从双膝置换后第一次再次骑上自行车。
How's your knees?
你的膝盖怎么样？
Beau O'reilly They hurt.
博·奥莱利 他们受伤了。
Yeah.
是的。
What?
什么？
I have to say, we are kind of a sight.
我不得不说，我们是一种景象。
Beau, with his huge shock of grey hair.
博，一头浓密的灰发。
Me, trotting along beside him with the microphone.
我拿着麦克风小跑在他身边。
And then behind us, Beau's girlfriend, Judith, chasing after us down the sidewalk with his cane.
然后在我们身后，博的女朋友朱迪思拄着拐杖沿着人行道追赶我们。
But that feels OK.
但感觉还可以。
A little winded.
有点喘气。
A little breathing.
有一点呼吸。
Feeling it, but feels all right.
有感觉，不过感觉还好。
At Ground Zero this week, on Thursday, President Obama laid a wreath.
本周周四，奥巴马总统在归零地敬献了花圈。
A woman named Theodosha Alexander was out on the sidewalk.
一位名叫西奥多莎·亚历山大的女士站在人行道上。
She'd worked as a temp in the Twin Towers all through the '80s and '90s, knew tons of people who'd worked there.
整个上世纪 80 年代和 90 年代，她一直在双子塔做临时工，认识很多在那里工作过的人。
Since 9/11, she's generally avoided Lower Manhattan because of that.
自 9/11 以来，她通常因此避开曼哈顿下城。
But she came down on Thursday, hoping it would feel different now that Osama bin Laden was dead.
但她周四下来，希望奥萨马·本·拉登死后感觉会有所不同。
It's like a relief that he's finally gone.
他终于走了，这就像一种解脱。
You know, it's gone.
你知道，它已经消失了。
No more.
不再。
Maybe it's over.
也许一切都结束了。
Maybe I won't have dreams about it.
也许我不会有这样的梦想。
Well, I feel better right now.
嗯，我现在感觉好多了。
I feel great.
我感觉很棒。
I feel like they got him.
我感觉他们抓住了他。
They got him.
他们抓住了他。
They got him.
他们抓住了他。
That same day, Thursday, at the hospital that US forces set up at Bagram Air Base to deal with US casualties in Afghanistan, there was no question that we are, of course, a nation that is still at war.
同一天，星期四，在美军为治疗阿富汗境内伤亡人员而在巴格拉姆空军基地设立的医院里，毫无疑问，我们是一个仍处于战争状态的国家。
Dr. Wade Gordon, one of three orthopedic surgeons there, says that it's been pretty steady the last six months, including this week, with Osama bin Laden gone.
韦德·戈登医生是那里的三名骨科医生之一，他说，过去六个月，包括本周，随着奥萨马·本·拉登的消失，情况相当稳定。
This week has been pretty busy.
这周非常忙碌。
We have been averaging probably between 8 and 12 new trauma patients each day.
我们平均每天可能有 8 到 12 名新创伤患者。
And so what kinds of injuries are those?
那么这些伤害是什么类型的呢？
Well, sadly, a large percentage of them are amputations from blast injuries from explosions.
不幸的是，其中很大一部分是因爆炸造成的爆炸伤而截肢。
There's a fair number of gunshot wounds as well.
还有相当多的枪伤。
I saw a quote from a soldier, I think it was in the New York Times , who was in Afghanistan and said, "OK.
我看到一位士兵的一句话，我想是在《纽约时报》上，他在阿富汗说：“好吧。
Can I go home now?" And I'm wondering if you're hearing any of that.
我现在可以回家了吗？”我想知道你是否听到了这些。
Yeah, I think there's a lot of tongue-in-cheek joking about that.
是的，我认为有很多关于这一点的半开玩笑。
Yes, it's nice after 10 years, but I guess I'm not certain, really, how much that's going to impact the reality of what we're doing over here, of day to day putting guys back together again here.
是的，十年后这很好，但我想我真的不确定这会对我们在这里所做的事情、日复一日地让人们重新聚集在一起的现实产生多大影响。
So much has happened this week.
这周发生了很多事情。
What else?
还有什么？
In the Grand Canyon on Wednesday, high school freshmen were on a class trip.
周三，在大峡谷，高中新生正在进行班级旅行。
This is Lauren.
这是劳伦。
We're walking down a trail to go to the Grand Canyon right now.
我们现在正沿着一条小路步行前往大峡谷。
No. I know you wouldn't push anybody over the edge.
不，我知道你不会把任何人逼到悬崖边。
But just don't even pretend to do it.
但只是不要假装这样做。
OK?
好的？
It's something we want to avoid.
这是我们想要避免的事情。
OK?
好的？
Sunday, in a bar in New York City, patrons raised their glasses in remembrance of the bartender who ran the joint and lived upstairs till he was 90, Jack Loftus.
周日，在纽约市的一家酒吧里，顾客们举起酒杯，纪念经营这家酒吧并一直住在楼上直到 90 岁的调酒师杰克·洛夫特斯 (Jack Loftus)。
Hear, hear.
听听，听听。
To Jack.
致杰克。
Cheers.
干杯。
Ira Glass This is a neighborhood where guys drank a lot and got into fights.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 在这个街区，人们经常喝酒并打架。
Jack was this six-foot-three fatherly figure who kept things calm.
杰克身高六英尺三英寸，是一个让事情保持平静的父亲般的人物。
This guy, Tommy Pryor, said his own dad was a big drinker who Jack knew how to keep in line.
汤米·普赖尔（Tommy Pryor）这个人说，他自己的父亲是个酒鬼，杰克知道如何管教他。
I loved Jack because I saw him love my father, respect him, take care of him when my father wasn't on his best behavior.
我爱杰克，因为我看到他爱我的父亲，尊重他，在我父亲表现不佳时照顾他。
And I felt I could trust Jack to help me control my father.
我觉得我可以相信杰克会帮助我控制我的父亲。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Every week in our show, of course, we choose a theme and bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，并为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today we are trying something we have never tried before.
今天我们正在尝试一些我们以前从未尝试过的事情。
The theme this week is, This Week.
本周的主题是“本周”。
Everything you're going to hear this hour has happened in the last seven days.
这一小时你将听到的所有事情都发生在过去 7 天内。
We wanted big things and small things, the most important things happening in the country, and the most important things happening to people far from Washington, DC, far from the network news cameras.
我们想要大事和小事，最重要的事情发生在这个国家，最重要的事情发生在远离华盛顿特区、远离网络新闻摄像机的人们身上。
A portrait of seven days in the life of our country.
我们国家七天生活的写照。
From WBEZ Chicago, it's a special edition of This American Life , distributed by Public Radio International.
这是来自芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》特别版，由国际公共广播电台发行。
Seven days in 60 minutes.
60分钟7天。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
We were all worried planning this week's show, coming into the week with no tape gathered at all.
我们都很担心计划本周的演出，因为本周根本没有收集到任何磁带。
We worried like, OK, what if there is no news?
我们担心，好吧，如果没有消息怎么办？
What if nothing interesting happens?
如果没有什么有趣的事情发生怎么办？
And then, Sunday night, there was a small bit of news.
然后，周日晚上，出现了一些新闻。
Tonight, I can report to the American people and to the world that the United States has conducted an operation that killed Osama bin Laden, the leader of al-Qaeda.
今晚，我可以向美国人民和全世界报告，美国实施了击毙基地组织头目奥萨马·本·拉登的行动。
That's President Obama, of course, Sunday night.
当然，周日晚上是奥巴马总统。
One of our producers, Sarah Koenig, was in a college town, State College, Pennsylvania, where she heard the noise of students shouting and blowing horns and what sounded like fire crackers on Sunday night.
我们的一位制作人莎拉·科尼格 (Sarah Koenig) 周日晚上在宾夕法尼亚州州立学院的一个大学城里听到学生们喊叫、吹喇叭的声音以及听起来像鞭炮的声音。
And since she wasn't watching TV, she had no idea what this was about.
由于她没有看电视，所以她不知道这是什么意思。
She thought maybe they had won a big game or something.
她想也许他们赢得了一场重要的比赛什么的。
She actually called the cops, who also at that point had no idea what it was about.
她实际上报了警，而警察当时也不知道发生了什么。
And all week, she kept thinking about the hugeness of the students' reaction.
整个星期，她一直在思考学生们反应的巨大程度。
When I heard Monday morning about Osama bin Laden, my reaction was, "Oh, wow," at about that decibel.
当我周一早上听到有关奥萨马·本·拉登的消息时，我的反应是，“哦，哇”，大约是这个分贝。
The difference between that and this [CROWD CHANTING USA AND CHEERING]-- This is what was happening about three blocks away when I called the cops on Sunday.
这和这个[人群高呼美国和欢呼]之间的区别——这就是我周日报警时在三个街区外发生的事情。
Thousands, maybe 5,000 or 6,000 Penn State students massed on Beaver Avenue.
数千名（也许是 5,000 或 6,000 名）宾夕法尼亚州立大学的学生聚集在比弗大道上。
You've probably seen the pictures or read the accounts by now, young people letting loose all over the country.
你现在可能已经看过这些照片或读过这些报道，全国各地的年轻人都在放纵。
Here, there was all kinds of patriotic singing.
这里，各种爱国歌声不绝于耳。
Someone lit a small fire, and kids were jumping over it.
有人点燃了一堆小火，孩子们在上面跳来跳去。
A guy dressed like Captain America was body surfing the crowd.
一个打扮得像美国队长的家伙正在人群中进行人体冲浪。
[CROWD NOISE] And by the end of the week, there'd been a bunch of stories in the papers about these September 11 kids, the so-called millenials, young, loyal Americans for whom Osama bin Laden was the boogie man, their Voldemort.
[人群噪音]到了周末，报纸上已经出现了很多关于这些 9 月 11 日的孩子的故事，这些所谓的千禧一代，年轻而忠诚的美国人，对他们来说，奥萨马·本·拉登是布吉人，他们的伏地魔。
But I still didn't quite get it-- the taking to the streets, all the revelry.
但我仍然不太明白——走上街头，所有的狂欢。
And I know I'm not 20 years old, and I like to go to bed around 11:30 instead of putting on my superhero outfit.
我知道我还不到 20 岁，我喜欢在 11:30 左右上床睡觉，而不是穿上我的超级英雄服装。
But still, the difference between their reaction and that of everyone I know over 30-- that difference is a gulf.
但尽管如此，他们的反应与我所认识的所有 30 岁以上的人的反应之间还是存在差异——这种差异是天壤之别。
So I asked some of the kids who were there that night.
所以我问了一些那天晚上在场的孩子。
Where did this outpouring of feeling come from?
这种流露出来的感觉从何而来？
Why did they take this news so personally?
为什么他们对这个消息如此重视？
I'm just going to play you the tape from the interview that finally helped me understand it.
我将给你们播放采访的录音带，它最终帮助我理解了它。
The girl speaking is Lexi Belculfine.
说话的女孩是莱克西·贝尔库芬 (Lexi Belculfine)。
She's a junior.
她是一名小学生。
She's 20 years old, editor of the school's daily newspaper.
她今年20岁，是学校日报的编辑。
She's got a poster of Dave Matthews above her bed.
她的床上方贴着戴夫·马修斯的海报。
And what she explained to me is that her fear after September 11 wasn't some abstraction.
她向我解释说，9 月 11 日之后她的恐惧并不是抽象的。
It was real and lasting.
这是真实而持久的。
I distinctly remember being very afraid for a very long time.
我清楚地记得很长一段时间我都非常害怕。
Yeah, I definitely was.
是的，我绝对是。
I guess it was just a realization of how quickly everything could be ripped out from under you, that these huge, catastrophic things can happen.
我想这只是意识到一切都会以多么快的速度从你身下被夺走，这些巨大的、灾难性的事情可能会发生。
That was really frightening.
那真是太可怕了。
After September 11 I wouldn't even look at a plane, basically.
9 月 11 日之后，我基本上不再看飞机了。
I live 10 minutes from the Pittsburgh International Airport.
我住的地方距匹兹堡国际机场 10 分钟路程。
So we watch the planes go right into the airport.
所以我们看着飞机直接进入机场。
And it just gave me this incredibly uneasy fear of planes, of flying.
它让我对飞机、飞行产生了一种令人难以置信的不安恐惧。
And you know, it's silly, but I was 11 and didn't understand it.
你知道，这很愚蠢，但我当时 11 岁，并不明白。
And I needed something to be afraid of, so I chose flying.
我需要一些害怕的东西，所以我选择了飞行。
I think that you could probably even say that that feeling, that being 11 and not understanding and being scared and confused and frightened, is why everyone was so excited Sunday night.
我想你甚至可以说那种感觉，那种11岁的感觉，不理解、害怕、困惑和害怕，就是为什么每个人周日晚上都如此兴奋。
Because we all kind of carried that fear with us.
因为我们都带着这种恐惧。
We definitely must have.
我们绝对必须有。
Because if not, then I don't think Sunday night would have happened.
因为如果没有的话，我认为周日晚上就不会发生。
And so I think that this moment wasn't necessarily an end point, but was the closest thing that we had felt.
所以我认为这一刻不一定是终点，但却是我们所感受到的最接近的事情。
It was this big indicator that there could be an end.
正是这个重大指标表明事情可能会结束。
Oh, right.
哦，对了。
Because if you're you, and most of your cognizant life has been different versions of the same situation, which is that we are at war with this sort of shadowy network, I could totally see how it feels like it's never going to end.
因为如果你是你，并且你的大部分认知生活都是同一情况的不同版本，也就是说我们正在与这种阴暗的网络交战，我完全可以理解它永远不会结束的感觉。
And that's exactly how it feels.
这正是我的感觉。
It's kind of neat for me.
这对我来说很整洁。
My little sister-- my mom was pregnant with her on September 11.
我的小妹妹——我妈妈在 9 月 11 日怀上了她。
She was seven months pregnant, I think.
我想她已经怀孕七个月了。
And now she's in third grade.
现在她已经上三年级了。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I really the past couple of days have been thinking about her a lot.
这两天我真的很想她。
And I'm almost really excited for her, because she doesn't know about any of this.
我几乎为她感到兴奋，因为她对此一无所知。
She doesn't understand any of this.
这些她都不懂。
And for me at least, it was this moment that I realized that maybe Chloe won't have to have the same confusing years as a 12, 13, 14, 15 year old.
至少对我来说，正是这一刻，我意识到也许克洛伊不必像 12、13、14、15 岁的孩子一样经历令人困惑的岁月。
Did you feel like, well, maybe she never has to know now?
你是否觉得，好吧，也许她现在永远不需要知道？
Exactly.
确切地。
And that was a really cool feeling for me.
这对我来说真是一种很酷的感觉。
Did you even know before Sunday night that you were waiting for an end point?
在周日晚上之前你是否知道你正在等待一个终点？
Do you know what I'm saying?
你知道我在说什么吗？
Like, before the feeling came, did you even know, "Oh, this is the feeling I've wanted to have all this time?"
就像，在这种感觉到来之前，你是否知道，“哦，这就是我一直想要拥有的感觉？”
It's really interesting, because I don't think that I had.
这真的很有趣，因为我认为我没有。
I don't know that I necessarily felt the way that I did until I'm watching 6,000 of my peers in the streets celebrating.
我不知道我是否一定有这样的感受，直到我看到 6,000 名同龄人在街上庆祝。
But I had no idea.
但我不知道。
When I'd asked another student why he and his friends cared so much about what happened Sunday since they were just little kids when September 11 happened-- it didn't happen to them-- he shot back, "No. It didn't happen to you guys.
当我问另一位学生为什么他和他的朋友们如此关心周日发生的事情时，因为 9 月 11 日发生时他们还只是小孩子——这件事没有发生在他们身上——他反驳道，“不。这没有发生在你们身上。
It happened to us."
这发生在我们身上。”
Sarah Koenig in State College, Pennsylvania.
莎拉·柯尼格 (Sarah Koenig)，宾夕法尼亚州州立学院。
In Egypt, on Monday, the day after President Obama announced Osama bin Laden was killed, out on the street it was kind of a non-event.
周一，在埃及，就在奥巴马总统宣布乌萨马·本·拉登被击毙的第二天，街上似乎没什么大事。
No demonstrations.
没有示威。
Yes, the Muslim Brotherhood issued a statement.
是的，穆斯林兄弟会发表了一份声明。
Yes, obviously people talked about the news.
是的，显然人们谈论了这个消息。
But that was it.
但就是这样。
It was a normal work day.
这是一个正常的工作日。
Crazy traffic.
疯狂的交通。
Lot of smoking.
大量吸烟。
Everybody glued to their cellphones.
每个人都紧盯着手机。
And for all of us wondering what does the death of Osama bin Laden mean for the Mideast, this was the reaction in the most influential, most populous Arab country in the world.
对于我们所有想知道奥萨马·本·拉登之死对中东意味着什么的人来说，这就是世界上最有影响力、人口最多的阿拉伯国家的反应。
A fourth of all Arabs live in Egypt.
四分之一的阿拉伯人居住在埃及。
Our producer Nancy Updike went by Tahrir Square in the afternoon.
我们的制片人南希·厄普代克下午去了解放广场。
If anyone in Egypt wanted to mark Osama bin Laden's death publicly or spark a national conversation about it, Tahrir Square would be the place.
如果埃及有人想公开纪念奥萨马·本·拉登的死亡或引发全国性的讨论，解放广场就是那个地方。
But the only activity I saw there on the day of the announcement was a man taking a nap on the grass.
但在宣布这一消息的那天，我看到的唯一活动是一个男人在草地上打盹。
In Cairo, the conversation is not about bin Laden.
在开罗，人们谈论的不是本拉登。
It's about something completely different.
这是关于完全不同的事情。
From the moment I got here, I was hearing the same thing over and over, "I'd love to talk, but I'm on my way to a meeting." Or, "I'm in a meeting.
从我到达这里的那一刻起，我就一遍又一遍地听到同样的话：“我很想谈谈，但我正在去开会的路上。”或者，“我正在开会。
Can I call you back?"
我可以给你回电话吗？”
These weren't work meetings.
这些不是工作会议。
They're the meetings of 82 million people deciding what their country will be.
这是 8200 万人参加的会议，决定他们的国家将会是什么样子。
If Egypt had a national sound right now, it would be the sound of chairs scraping into a circle, or maybe the sound right after that.
如果埃及现在有一种全国性的声音，那一定是椅子刮成圆圈的声音，或者可能是紧接着的声音。
[MALE VOICES ARGUING] Arguing.
[男性声音争论] 争论。
This man is saying, "Why, why, why, why?" He's one of about 15 people in a room forming a new political party.
这个人在说：“为什么，为什么，为什么，为什么？”他是房间里大约 15 个人组成一个新政党的成员之一。
They're figuring out what the party stands for and how it should present itself, right now, in front of me.
他们正在弄清楚该党代表什么以及它应该如何在我面前展示自己。
They've got a name for the party, the Egyptian Social Democratic Party.
他们给这个党起了个名字：埃及社会民主党。
But what does that mean exactly?
但这到底是什么意思呢？
The man shouting, "Why," is responding to someone else who is saying, "We're not liberals.
那个大喊“为什么”的人是在回应其他人的说法：“我们不是自由主义者。
We're not calling ourselves liberals."
我们不称自己为自由主义者。”
"What's wrong with liberalism?" the why man wants to know.
“自由主义有什么问题吗？”人们想知道的原因。
"Liberalism has a taint now," the other guy says.
“自由主义现在有了污点，”另一个人说。
"Some people are equating liberal parties with infidels.
“有些人将自由党派与异教徒等同起来。
I have nothing against liberalism," he adds.
我并不反对自由主义，”他补充道。
"I am a liberal."
“我是一个自由主义者。”
"And wait, how are we different from other free market parties?" someone else asks.
“等等，我们与其他自由市场政党有何不同？”别人问。
A man sitting behind the one desk in the room clarifies.
坐在房间里一张桌子后面的一名男子澄清道。
"We're somewhere between socialism and liberalism.
“我们处于社会主义和自由主义之间。
Free market, but more like France or Germany than America."
自由市场，但更像法国或德国，而不是美国。”
I spent the week going to meetings.
我花了一周时间去参加会议。
They're happening everywhere.
它们无处不在。
This one is 25 men sitting on plastic chairs in a circle out on the sidewalk lecturing each other about politics.
这是 25 名男子坐在人行道上的塑料椅子上，围成一圈，互相讲授政治知识。
I went to another meeting on the AstroTurf deck of a boat on the Nile-- two judges, three religious men, and a DJ, who I think qualifies for the title of Mr. Meeting.
我在尼罗河上一艘船上的 AstroTurf 甲板上参加了另一场会议，有两名法官、三名宗教人士和一名 DJ，我认为他有资格获得“会议先生”的称号。
[SPEAKING IN ARABIC] Nancy Updike This is [?
[用阿拉伯语] Nancy Updike 这是 [？
Gihad ?], a charming, six-foot-tall DJ, music producer, and party boy who was apolitical and, he cheerfully admits, rather debauched under Mubarak's rule.
吉哈德？]，一位迷人的、六英尺高的 DJ、音乐制作人和派对男孩，他不关心政治，而且他高兴地承认，在穆巴拉克的统治下相当放荡。
He told an interpreter and me about sleeping until 5:00 PM, going to parties all night.
他告诉一名翻译和我，他睡到下午 5:00，整晚都要去参加聚会。
But then he saw friends die in front of him on Tahrir Square.
但后来他在解放广场看到朋友们死在他面前。
And now he's quit being a DJ.
现在他不再担任 DJ。
He's living off his savings, and he goes to meetings all day.
他靠积蓄生活，整天去参加会议。
He starts ticking off his previous 24 hours.
他开始记录之前的 24 小时。
Noon prayer, followed by a neighborhood meeting about how to deal with crime.
中午祈祷，然后召开邻里会议讨论如何应对犯罪。
Then on to a seminar about the pros and cons of a parliamentary republic versus a presidential republic.
然后参加关于议会制共和国与总统制共和国的利弊的研讨会。
8:00 PM dinner meeting with friends working on political issues.
晚上 8:00 与研究政治问题的朋友共进晚餐。
An 11:00 PM meeting with other activists to nail down the agenda for a meeting the following day.
晚上 11:00 与其他活动人士会面，确定第二天会议的议程。
Then at 2:00 AM, a final meeting back in his neighborhood.
然后凌晨 2:00，在他家附近举行最后一次会议。
Four hours sleep.
睡四个小时。
Woke up.
醒了。
Picked up a friend.
接了一个朋友。
Drove here.
开车来这里。
My interpreter and I left Mr. Meeting, got off the elevator at the sixth floor of an office building, and headed into a conference room for one last meeting that ended up being pretty mind blowing.
我和翻译离开了会议先生，在办公楼六楼下了电梯，走进会议室参加最后一次会议，结果非常令人兴奋。
At first it looked like a classic corporate gab fest-- fluorescent lit room, about 30 people sitting around a huge oval conference table with croissants and bread sticks in front of them.
起初，它看起来就像一场经典的企业闲聊盛宴——荧光灯照亮的房间，大约 30 个人围坐在一张巨大的椭圆形会议桌周围，面前放着羊角面包和面包棒。
But this was an assembly of two very different groups, longtime enemies, in fact, sitting face to face to see whether in the new Egypt they'll still be enemies.
但这是两个截然不同的群体的集会，事实上，他们是长期的敌人，面对面地坐着，看看他们在新埃及是否仍然是敌人。
On one side was writers, journalists, editors, left-wing Egyptians actively working to keep Egypt secular.
一方面是作家、记者、编辑和左翼埃及人，他们积极致力于保持埃及的世俗化。
On the other side, current and former members of the [?
另一方面，现任和前任成员[？
Gama'ah ?] [?
伽玛？] [？
Is-lamiyah, ?] an Egyptian Islamist organization that spent years murdering both foreign tourists and Egyptians.
Is-lamiyah，？] 一个埃及伊斯兰组织，多年来杀害外国游客和埃及人。
They went after policemen and politicians, including the president of Egypt.
他们追捕警察和政客，包括埃及总统。
They were part of the plot that killed Anwar Sadat.
他们是杀害安瓦尔·萨达特阴谋的一部分。
The men sitting here have served decades in Egypt's prisons.
坐在这里的这些人已经在埃及的监狱里服刑了几十年。
The Gama'ah Is-lamiyah also targeted Egyptian intellectuals, exactly the sort of people they're now sitting across from.
迦玛伊斯兰拉米亚还针对埃及知识分子，正是他们现在坐在对面的那种人。
The Gama'ah Is-lamiyah started off the meeting the way they had to, by reiterating the fact that they publicly renounced violence 14 years ago.
Gama'ah Is-lamiyah 以他们必须的方式开始会议，重申他们 14 年前公开放弃暴力这一事实。
And they still renounce it today.
今天他们仍然放弃它。
"No one is forcing us to say this," said Nageh Ibrahim, a thin man with a long white beard, the Gama'ah Is-lamiyah leader who spoke most often.
“没有人强迫我们这么说，”纳吉·易卜拉欣 (Nageh Ibrahim) 说道，他是一位瘦削、留着长长白胡子的男人，也是最常发言的伽马伊斯兰派领导人。
He said, "Mubarak is gone.
他说：“穆巴拉克走了。
We can say what we want.
我们可以说我们想说的话。
And we're saying the same thing today we've been saying for years-- no violence."
今天我们要说的是我们多年来一直在说的同样的话——不要暴力。”
After 15 minutes of back and forth about that, one of the journalists suddenly shifted the conversation with a quiet question.
经过 15 分钟的来回讨论后，一名记者突然转移话题，小声提问。
"What's your position on art?"
“你对艺术的立场是什么？”
For years, Islamic extremists have preached a sort of cultural anorexia, no poetry, music, dance.
多年来，伊斯兰极端分子宣扬一种文化厌食症，没有诗歌、音乐和舞蹈。
And in this meeting, once art came up, it took over the conversation.
在这次会议上，一旦艺术出现，它就占据了谈话的主导地位。
The secularists wanted to know, "What art is OK in your view?" "Does painting have a place in Egypt, sculpture?" "How about theatre, movies?" "Do you believe in such a thing as Islamic art and non-Islamic art?" "Would you ban any art if you could?" The conversation went from chilly and polite to blunt.
世俗主义者想知道，“在你看来什么艺术是可以的？” “绘画、雕塑在埃及有一席之地吗？” “戏剧、电影怎么样？” “你相信伊斯兰艺术和非伊斯兰艺术吗？” “如果可以的话，你会禁止任何艺术吗？”谈话从冷漠、礼貌变成了直率。
One of the secularists, a famous novelist, [?
世俗主义者之一，著名小说家，[？
Yousef ?] [?
尤瑟夫？] [？
al-Kayyid ?] said, "We're not here so you can reassure us.
al-Kayyid ?] 说：“我们不在这里，所以你可以让我们放心。
We're here to find out what you really believe."
我们来这里是为了找出你真正相信的是什么。”
For the next hour, the secularists and the men from the Gama'ah Is-lamiyah have a surreal conversation, the kind that happens when people with profound differences do manage to speak civilly and honestly with each other.
在接下来的一个小时里，世俗主义者和来自 Gama'ah Is-lamiyah 的人们进行了一场超现实的对话，这种对话发生在有着深刻分歧的人们确实能够以礼貌和诚实的方式彼此交谈时。
The two groups argued, quoted poetry, brought up specific Arab pop stars and their videos, and talked about the evolution of Islamic scholarship on the subject of whether it's OK to paint or sculpt a person.
两个团体进行了争论，引用了诗歌，提到了特定的阿拉伯流行歌星和他们的视频，并讨论了伊斯兰学术的演变，主题是绘画或雕刻一个人是否可以。
The short version, according to the head of Gama'ah Is-lamiyah, first, no. Then, yes.
根据 Gama'ah Is-lamiyah 的负责人的说法，简短的版本，首先，没有。那么，是的。
And now, it's probably OK.
现在，可能没问题了。
Photography?
摄影？
Fine.
美好的。
Ballet?
芭蕾舞？
Not OK.
不行。
No, there isn't Islamic literature and non-Islamic literature.
不，没有伊斯兰文学和非伊斯兰文学。
Literature is literature.
文学就是文学。
We like music-- well, some music.
我们喜欢音乐——嗯，一些音乐。
It can't be sexy.
不可能是性感的。
We used to sing ourselves and put on little plays when we were in prison, to entertain ourselves.
当我们在监狱里的时候，我们常常自己唱歌、表演小剧来娱乐自己。
And we read.
我们阅读。
One of the Gama'ah Is-lamiyah men said, "I really like the writing of Naghib Mahfouz.
一位迦玛伊斯兰拉米亚人说：“我真的很喜欢纳吉布·马哈福兹的作品。
Since reading him, I don't read any other novels.
自从读了他的书之后，我就没有再读过其他的小说了。
I read all his books when I was in prison, and I related to them."
我在监狱里读过他所有的书，并与它们产生了联系。”
This was an olive branch of sorts.
这可以说是一根橄榄枝。
Mahfouz is Egypt's most celebrated writer, proudly secular, who was stabbed in an assassination attempt by an Islamist militant after Gama'ah Is-lamiyah put him on a hit list.
马哈福兹是埃及最著名的作家，自豪地世俗化，在贾玛·伊斯拉米亚将他列入暗杀名单后，他在一次伊斯兰激进分子的暗杀企图中被刺伤。
Later in the meeting, one of the Gama'ah leaders, Nageh Ibrahim, said, "Look, we may differ with you about art.
在后来的会议上，加玛领导人之一纳吉·易卜拉欣 (Nageh Ibrahim) 说：“听着，我们在艺术方面可能与你存在分歧。
But Gama'ah Is-lamiyah will not burn art, will not destroy, will not ban.
但 Gama'ah Is-lamiyah 不会焚烧艺术品，不会毁坏，也不会禁止。
I could disagree with you about literature, art, or politics.
关于文学、艺术或政治，我可能不同意你的观点。
That doesn't mean I would be violent against you or attack you.
这并不意味着我会对你使用暴力或攻击你。
No. We fight thought with thought."
不，我们用思想来对抗思想。”
Maybe promising not to stab someone seems a little too basic to be a bragging point, but in this conversation, it was part of a bigger statement by the Gama'ah Is-lamiyah.
也许承诺不刺伤某人似乎有点太基本了，不适合作为吹嘘点，但在这次谈话中，这是 Gama'ah Is-lamiyah 更大声明的一部分。
"We want to be part of the real Egypt, not a fantasy that we try to create by killing people."
“我们希望成为真正的埃及的一部分，而不是我们试图通过杀人来创造的幻想。”
The Gama'ah Is-lamiyah is in this meeting because it was the first violent Islamist group to not only renounce violence, but also publicly apologize and say what they did was wrong.
Gama'ah Is-lamiyah 参加这次会议，因为它是第一个不仅放弃暴力，而且公开道歉并表示他们所做的事情是错误的伊斯兰暴力组织。
Their leadership then spent years writing a detailed, mutil-volume refutation of their former beliefs, including a direct challenge to al-Qaeda's argument that America is a nation of infidels who deserve to be killed.
他们的领导层随后花了数年时间撰写了详细的多卷书，驳斥了他们以前的信仰，包括对基地组织的论点提出直接挑战，即美国是一个由异教徒组成的国家，应该被杀死。
Gama'ah Is-lamiyah said, "No, that's not true." And they quoted the First Amendment of the US Constitution guaranteeing freedom of religion in their rebuttal.
迦玛·伊斯拉米亚说：“不，那不是真的。”他们还援引美国宪法第一修正案保障宗教自由的说法进行反驳。
All of which brings me to Osama bin Laden.
所有这些让我想到了奥萨马·本·拉登。
Egyptian thinkers provided the inspiration for al-Qaeda.
埃及思想家为基地组织提供了灵感。
Al-Qaeda's modern ideological underpinnings are mostly from Egyptian Islamist writers, especially Sayyid Qutb.
基地组织的现代意识形态基础主要来自埃及伊斯兰作家，尤其是赛义德·库特卜。
Bin Laden's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri is Egyptian, and he started reading Qutb as a teenager.
本·拉登的二号人物艾曼·扎瓦希里是埃及人，他十几岁时就开始阅读库特卜的著作。
One of bin Laden's professors at university was Qutb's brother.
本·拉登的一位大学教授是库特卜的兄弟。
The modern phenomenon of violent political Islam has its roots in Egypt.
现代暴力政治伊斯兰现象的根源在于埃及。
And, in terms of ideology and some key members, so does al-Qaeda.
而且，在意识形态和一些关键成员方面，基地组织也是如此。
But what does that mean for Egypt today?
但这对今天的埃及意味着什么？
I had a guess, and I ran it by the leader of Gama'ah Is-lamiyah, Sheikh Karam Zuhdi, the day after the meeting at his home.
我有一个猜测，并在 Gama'ah Is-lamiyah 的领导人谢赫·卡拉姆·祖赫迪 (Sheikh Karam Zuhdi) 家中举行会议后的第二天进行了预测。
It seems to me that Ayman Zawahiri and bin Laden and al-Qaeda, they're following ideas that came from Egypt 50 years ago.
在我看来，艾曼·扎瓦希里、本·拉登和基地组织正在追随 50 年前来自埃及的想法。
And Egypt, itself, has moved on.
埃及本身也在继续前进。
[SPEAKING IN ARABIC] Interpreter I think you're absolutely right.
[用阿拉伯语] 翻译 我认为你是完全正确的。
These are the ideas of the '50s and the '60s and the '70s.
这些是 50 年代、60 年代和 70 年代的想法。
Egypt has overcome that, has gone through other phases.
埃及克服了这一点，并经历了其他阶段。
Like I said, the youth on Tahrir, they brought down A whole regime just with the strength of the word and maybe a stone.
就像我说的，解放广场上的年轻人，他们仅仅凭借言语的力量甚至是一块石头就推翻了整个政权。
Do you ever worry that it could come back in Egypt-- violence in the name of Islam?
您是否担心过这种情况会在埃及卷土重来——以伊斯兰教名义的暴力？
[SPEAKING IN ARABIC] Interpreter I feel it won't come back, God willing.
[用阿拉伯语] 翻译 我觉得它不会再回来了，上帝保佑。
Egyptians right now are in love with Egypt.
现在的埃及人热爱埃及。
Egypt is what they want to talk about, not bin Laden.
他们想谈论的是埃及，而不是本拉登。
And that includes groups like Gama'ah Is-lamiyah that used to have a similar ideology.
其中包括像 Gama'ah Is-lamiyah 这样曾经拥有类似意识形态的团体。
The Gama'ah Is-lamiyah leaders are doing the same thing other Egyptians are doing, sitting down at tables with croissants and bread sticks, and talking about the future of their country.
Gama'ah Is-lamiyah 领导人正在做其他埃及人正在做的同样的事情，坐在桌子旁，吃着羊角面包和面包棒，谈论他们国家的未来。
Nancy Updike in Cairo.
南希·厄普代克在开罗。
Act Three: Monday, Tucson AZ Ira Glass Here in United States this week, despite the President calling for a moment of unity, democracy still seems to meet people at each other's throats.
第三幕：周一，亚利桑那州图森市 Ira Glass 本周在美国，尽管总统呼吁团结一致，但民主似乎仍然让人们互相争斗。
Take this incident in Arizona.
以亚利桑那州的这起事件为例。
This was not big news at all.
这根本不是什么大新闻。
The Tucson Unified School District is considering something that you wouldn't think, from the outside, would be something that people could get quite this mad about.
图森联合学区正在考虑一些从外部来看你不会认为人们会如此愤怒的事情。
The issue was whether the Mexican-American studies program in high school will be turned from a core credit to an elective.
问题是高中的墨西哥裔美国人研究课程是否会从核心学分变成选修课。
That's it.
就是这样。
People who oppose that change say that if it's going to be an elective, then the many at-risk kids who do well in that course, whose GPAs are helped by that course, who basically are the target population for that course, they will never take the course.
反对这一改变的人说，如果它是一门选修课，那么那些在该课程中表现出色、其 GPA 得到该课程帮助的高危孩子，基本上就是该课程的目标人群，他们将永远不会选修该课程。
So the course will miss its target population.
因此，该课程将错过其目标人群。
So Monday this week, school board's going to discuss this.
所以本周星期一，学校董事会将讨论这个问题。
And this middle school teacher named Sarah Bromer, from this charter school, goes to the school board meeting with a tape recorder.
这位来自这所特许学校的名叫莎拉·布罗默的中学老师带着录音机去参加学校董事会会议。
And she sits in the second row next to a seat that has this piece of paper on it that says, "Reserved."
她坐在第二排的一个座位旁边，上面有一张纸，上面写着“已预订”。
So the meeting is packed, over a hundred people in the room.
所以会议现场座无虚席，会议室里有一百多人。
And from the beginning of this meeting, there's heckling.
从这次会议一开始，就充满了质问。
Somebody calls the school board president bandito.
有人称学校董事会主席为强盗。
There's chanting.
有诵经声。
The school board decides to hear 30 minutes of testimony from the public on this issue.
学校董事会决定就这一问题听取公众 30 分钟的证词。
And then the school board wants to cut it off.
然后学校董事会想要切断它。
But people keep standing to speak.
但人们仍然站着说话。
So somebody stands up, they try to speak, they're escorted out by police.
于是有人站起来，他们试图说话，但他们被警察护送出去。
Then an older woman, a teacher at Pima Community College named Lupe Castillo, she gets up.
然后一位年长的女士站了起来，她是皮马社区学院的老师，名叫卢佩·卡斯蒂略(Lupe Castillo)。
And I will read to you the Letter from Birmingham Jail by Martin Luther King.
我将向你们朗读马丁·路德·金写的《来自伯明翰监狱的信》。
This is what you need to hear.
这就是你需要听到的。
You need to understand and respect.
你需要理解和尊重。
The police move in to arrest her.
警察介入逮捕她。
And then things go kind of crazy.
然后事情就变得有点疯狂。
The crowd starts chanting.
人群开始高呼。
People start standing on their chairs.
人们开始站在椅子上。
Leave Lupe alone!
放过卢佩吧！
Ira Glass At this point, the teacher who was recording this thing you're hearing right now, Sarah Bromer, says there are all these students in the room.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass） 此时，正在录制您现在听到的这件事的老师莎拉·布罗默（Sarah Bromer）说，房间里有所有这些学生。
Suddenly they show up-- 10 of them with white T-shirts and duct tape over their mouths.
突然，他们出现了——其中 10 个人穿着白色 T 恤，嘴上蒙着胶带。
The police then move like a wave across the room, flushing out Lupe and lots of the protesters, and most of the media, actually.
然后警察像波浪一样穿过房间，冲走了卢佩和许多抗议者，实际上还有大多数媒体。
Sarah, who is recording this, ducks between the chairs, and then she sees down there between the chairs the woman who had moved into that seat next to her, that reserved seat, who turns out to be a petite woman in conservative, professional clothes.
莎拉正在记录这一点，她躲在椅子之间，然后她看到椅子之间有一个女人搬到了她旁边的座位上，那个预留的座位上，原来是一个穿着保守职业服装的娇小女人。
Sarah works her way back over to her seat next to the woman.
莎拉慢慢回到那位女士旁边的座位上。
Why are you here tonight?
你今晚为何在这里？
Woman Oh, I just came to observe democracy a little bit.
女人哦，我只是来观察一下民主。
But I'm feeling kind of weird.
但我感觉有点奇怪。
It's a little too loud to me.
对我来说有点太大声了。
Where are you from?
你从哪来？
Woman I'm from Iran.
女士，我来自伊朗。
From Iran?
来自伊朗？
Woman Yes.
女人 是的。
I'm not a citizen yet.
我还不是公民。
A permanent resident of the United States.
美国永久居民。
I just wanted to see how they talk to each other.
我只是想看看他们如何互相交谈。
This is just so crazy, man.
这太疯狂了，伙计。
After 12 years in the United States, I don't think I still exactly get it.
在美国呆了12年后，我想我仍然没有完全明白这一点。
Because mostly when I watch things on TV, things are more calm.
因为大多数时候我在电视上看事情时，事情会更平静。
But now it's a little too rowdy and scary, and both sides yell at each other a little bit.
但现在有点太吵闹了，太吓人了，双方都有点互相吼叫。
I saw you at one point crawling along the floor right when it got really crazy.
我有一次看到你在地板上爬行，当时事情变得非常疯狂。
I saw you kind of crawling along.
我看到你在爬行。
Were you frightened?
你害怕吗？
I'm not the most brave person on the face of planet, and I sort of avoid conflict usually.
我不是这个星球上最勇敢的人，而且我通常会避免冲突。
Somehow I didn't have this opinion about the United States.
不知怎的，我对美国没有这样的看法。
I didn't think this happens in the United States.
我没想到这种事会发生在美国。
I thought it happens elsewhere.
我以为这会发生在其他地方。
No, no. Sarah Bromer Hopefully it won't.
不，不。莎拉·布罗默 希望不会。
I got a headache though.
不过我还是很头疼。
I think I'm nervous.
我想我很紧张。
At one point, the Iranian woman asked Sarah, "OK, if this is a democracy, and if you can actually vote out these people if you don't like them, why is everybody being so rude?
有一次，这位伊朗妇女问莎拉：“好吧，如果这是一个民主国家，如果你真的可以投票选出这些人，如果你不喜欢他们，为什么每个人都如此粗鲁？
Why are they yelling so much?" It's a good question.
他们为什么这么大喊大叫？”这是一个好问题。
Well, coming up, when everything in your life depends on a political event that the political world ignores.
好吧，接下来，当你生活中的一切都取决于政治世界忽视的政治事件时。
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life , I'm Ira Glass.
这就是美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show, of course, we choose a theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题。
This week the theme is, "This Week." We are spending the hour hearing about large things and very small things that happened these past seven days.
本周的主题是“本周”。我们花了一个小时聆听过去 7 天发生的大事和小事。
Is this a good time to talk?
现在是谈话的好时机吗？
Shirley Everett-dicko Yeah, if you don't mind me packing.
雪莉·埃弗雷特-迪科 是的，如果你不介意我收拾行李的话。
Sunday, in Oakland, California, Shirley Everett-Dicko was closing up Charcoal Park, which was a very hard-to-describe combination store, African American history museum, community center where kids hung out and came for movies and pizza Friday nights.
周日，在加利福尼亚州奥克兰，雪莉·埃弗雷特-迪科 (Shirley Everett-Dicko) 关闭了木炭公园 (Charcoal Park)，这是一家很难描述的综合商店、非裔美国人历史博物馆和社区中心，孩子们周五晚上在这里闲逛、看电影和吃披萨。
Shirley has had the place for two years.
雪莉已经在这个地方呆了两年了。
She's been waiting for a miracle that has not come yet to help pay the rent.
她一直在等待奇迹的出现，但尚未到来，以帮助支付房租。
And she said on Sunday that lots of people driving by saw the moving trucks and people carrying stuff out and chose that moment to stop in.
她周日表示，很多开车路过的人看到移动的卡车和搬运东西的人，都选择在那个时刻停下来。
Now that they feel this activity, they think they're coming to shop, right?
既然他们感受到了这个活动，他们就认为自己是来购物的，对吧？
And I'm like, "I'm leaving now." "No, I've been meaning to come here." I said, "Well, that's part of the problem." I hear everybody keep saying you were going to come here.
我说：“我现在要走了。” “不，我一直想来这里。”我说：“好吧，这就是问题的一部分。”我听到每个人都一直说你要来这里。
You never did.
你从来没有这样做过。
This looked like such a nice store.
这看起来真是一家不错的商店。
I kept meaning to stop in.
我一直想停下来。
Yeah, we've been meaning to.
是的，我们一直想这么做。
I drive by it all the time.
我一直开车经过它。
Now you come over the day I'm packing up to leave.
现在你在我收拾行李离开的那天过来。
We've had a lot of that.
我们经历过很多这样的事情。
Yeah, actually it really does, and the other one doesn't look like it.
是的，实际上确实如此，而另一张看起来并不像。
Yeah, it looks like someone hung themselves in there.
是的，看起来有人在那里上吊自杀了。
I know.
我知道。
Ira Glass On the other side of the country on Saturday, it was moving day for Gabe and Kevin, boyfriends moving in together.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 在美国的另一边，星期六是加布 (Gabe) 和凯文 (Kevin) 搬家的日子，这对男朋友搬到了一起。
Neither of them had ever done this-- had a boyfriend and moved in with him, ever.
他们俩都没有这样做过——有男朋友并搬去和他住在一起，从来没有。
Yeah, I feel like I've always seen friends do this.
是的，我感觉我经常看到朋友这样做。
Yeah.
是的。
Gabe And it was always like, oh, I don't know if it'll ever happen for me or if I'll ever have that experience or anything.
加布：我总是觉得，哦，我不知道这是否会发生在我身上，或者我是否会有那样的经历或其他什么。
So now that I am, I'm like, oh.
所以现在我是，我想，哦。
Well, today is Wednesday, and later this evening, there's an Elton John concert in La Crosse, Wisconsin that my girlfriend Roz and I will be attending with my parents, my brother and sister, and possibly my pastor.
好吧，今天是星期三，今晚晚些时候，在威斯康星州拉克罗斯有一场埃尔顿·约翰音乐会，我和女朋友罗兹将与我的父母、我的兄弟姐妹以及可能还有我的牧师一起参加。
Eric and Roz are 21 and 23 in Stevens Point, Wisconsin.
埃里克 (Eric) 和罗兹 (Roz) 分别 21 岁和 23 岁，住在威斯康星州史蒂文斯波因特。
And it is at this concert where we intend to tell my parents that we plan on moving in together.
正是在这场音乐会上，我们打算告诉我的父母，我们计划搬到一起住。
And what do you think the reaction is going to be?
您认为会有什么反应？
I'm not really optimistic about it, I guess.
我想我对此并不乐观。
They're a very Christian couple of people whom I love, I really love.
他们是一对非常虔诚的基督徒夫妇，我爱他们，我真的很爱他们。
But--
但是——
Previously he's made mention to them this could be a possibility in the future.
此前他曾向他们提到这可能是未来的可能性。
And what his mother's reaction was was that-- I believe the words were, "God is not the only one judging you." Is that correct, Eric?
他母亲的反应是——我相信这句话是，“上帝不是唯一审判你的人。”这是正确的吗，埃里克？
So they've been prepping.
所以他们一直在做准备。
Eric made a list of talking points-- what he figured his parents would say, how he would respond.
埃里克列出了一系列谈话要点——他认为父母会说什么，他会如何回应。
And Thursday, the day after the concert, I checked in with them again to see how it went.
星期四，音乐会后的第二天，我再次与他们联系，看看进展如何。
Roz said that it was hard to enjoy Elton John, she was so stressed out about this conversation they were going to have, which unfortunately, they did not start until midnight-- that wasn't the original plan-- until midnight in his parents house, before hitting the road to return to Stevens Point.
罗兹说，很难欣赏埃尔顿·约翰的表演，她对他们即将进行的这次谈话感到压力很大，不幸的是，他们直到午夜才开始——这不是最初的计划——直到午夜在他父母家里，然后上路返回史蒂文斯角。
We were standing in the kitchen.
我们站在厨房里。
And his mom and dad were just thanking me for coming.
他的妈妈和爸爸只是感谢我的到来。
And they were so happy that I was able to experience the show with their family.
他们很高兴我能够和他们的家人一起观看演出。
And I'm just like, my stomach is in knots.
我就像，我的胃打结了。
And his mother is such a gracious woman.
而他的母亲又是一位如此贤惠的女人。
Here she is like, "Oh, do you guys need anything for the trip?
她就像是，“哦，你们这次旅行需要什么东西吗？
Some food?" She's packing up tons of food for us, and she's like, "Let me make you a sandwich." And I'm thinking, "You're going to want to retract those statements once I tell you I'm going to be living with your son."
吃点东西吗？”她正在为我们打包大量的食物，她说：“让我给你做一个三明治。”我在想，“一旦我告诉你我要和你儿子住在一起，你就会想收回这些言论。”
So they finally broke the news.
于是他们终于爆出了这个消息。
They want to move in together.
他们想搬到一起住。
They each gave a little talk about why, and waited.
他们各自简单地解释了原因，然后等待。
Eric's mom just said, "OK." And she just kind of paused, and her response was, "Well, you're both adults.
埃里克的妈妈只是说：“好吧。”她停顿了一下，她的回答是：“好吧，你们都是成年人了。
And we see." She didn't really say, "We understand," or "We accept that." But she's like, "We see."
我们看到了。”她并没有真正说“我们理解”或“我们接受这一点”。但她说：“我们明白了。”
So Eric, it seems like this went very, very differently than you thought it would.
埃里克，看来事情的进展与你想象的非常非常不同。
It seems like your mom was lovely.
看来你妈妈很可爱。
Yeah, she really was.
是的，她确实是。
My dad was all right too.
我爸爸也没事。
But during our interview, Eric's mom left him a long voicemail that he discovered when he got out of the studio.
但在我们的采访中，埃里克的妈妈给他留了一封很长的语音信箱，当他走出工作室时，他发现了这条语音信箱。
It is not over.
事情还没有结束。
His mom thinks they're rushing into it.
他妈妈认为他们太仓促了。
It could ruin their relationship.
这可能会破坏他们的关系。
June 1, moving day, is coming up very, very soon.
6月1日，搬家的日子，很快就要到来了。
I'll get that there, buddy.
我会把它拿到那里，伙计。
Ira Glass On Monday of this week, in South Portland, Maine, the two grave diggers at the Mount Pleasant Cemetery, Eugene Rand and Bill True-- they're also best friends by the way-- held a work stoppage, and then ended the work stoppage.
本周一，在缅因州南波特兰，普莱森特公墓的两名掘墓人尤金·兰德和比尔·特鲁——顺便说一下，他们也是最好的朋友——举行了停工，然后结束了停工。
That's what you're hearing right now.
这就是你现在听到的。
The work stoppage was to protest the fact that the 137-year-old cemetery was finally going to modernize.
这次停工是为了抗议这座拥有137年历史的墓地终于要现代化的事实。
They were going to finally buy a machine to dig graves, a backhoe, to replace one of the two guys.
他们最终打算买一台挖掘坟墓的机器，一台反铲，来取代这两个家伙中的一个。
And on Monday, the cemetery's president met with two guys and told them that he had decided to keep them both until the end of June, and then he would decide about the backhoe.
周一，墓地主席会见了两个人，并告诉他们，他决定将他们俩保留到六月底，然后他会决定反铲的问题。
Satisfied, they went back to digging.
满意了，他们又继续挖掘。
Bill says that the whole problem is this new manager that the cemetery has brought in.
比尔说，整个问题在于墓地新聘请的经理。
I enjoy working here.
我很享受在这里工作。
I like doing this.
我喜欢这样做。
That dude over there, he's got to go.
那边那个家伙，他得走了。
He just needs to change his attitude a little bit.
他只是需要稍微改变一下态度。
Show a little respect to the guys that do actually do the work here.
对真正在这里工作的人表示一点尊重。
And I guess not treat us like a couple peons that don't know anything.
我想不要把我们当作一对什么都不知道的苦工。
Yeah, I really hope things work out.
是的，我真的希望一切顺利。
It could take all day to dig a grave by hand.
用手挖一个坟墓可能需要一整天的时间。
They hit rocks.
他们撞到了岩石。
It's hard to keep the sides straight and square.
很难保持侧面笔直和方形。
It's hard work.
这很辛苦。
And here's something that the reporter who talked to these guys, Clay Bolton, learned that I had no idea about.
与这些人交谈的记者克莱·博尔顿了解到我不知道的事情。
That whole cliche about six feet under?
那个大约六英尺以下的陈词滥调？
Never.
绝不。
Even in the old days, I guess, maybe they went six feet under.
我猜想，即使在过去，它们也可能潜入六英尺以下。
No.
不。
So if it's not six feet under, how deep do you guys get?
那么，如果不是六英尺以下，你们会钻多深？
Four feet.
四英尺。
Bill True Just below the frost line, average four feet.
Bill True 就在霜线以下，平均四英尺。
The first foot is real easy, Eugene says.
尤金说，第一步真的很容易。
The second foot gets tough.
第二只脚变得艰难。
Your third foot is killing.
你的第三只脚正在杀人。
The fourth foot, you're ready to quit.
第四只脚，你准备退出了。
And squaring off the bottom, that can be half a day by itself, he says.
他说，把底部摆平可能需要半天的时间。
You really didn't see it in the headlines, but all this week, people across the South were still dealing with the aftermath of last week's tornadoes.
你确实没有在头条新闻中看到它，但整个星期，南方各地的人们仍在应对上周龙卷风的后果。
That's not over, not even close.
这还没有结束，甚至还没有结束。
Official estimates are that there were at least 300 tornadoes.
官方估计至少发生了 300 场龙卷风。
At least 329 people have died across seven states, according to the Associated Press.
据美联社报道，七个州至少有 329 人死亡。
And a week in, you would think that there would be this agreed-on set of facts.
一周后，你会认为会有这组商定的事实。
Not so.
并非如此。
David Kestenbaum learned this down in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
大卫·凯斯坦鲍姆 (David Kestenbaum) 在阿拉巴马州塔斯卡卢萨学到了这一点。
It's understandable that after a monster tornado churns through your town, picking up cars and chewing up houses, even a week later, there's going to be some new piece of unsettling news.
这是可以理解的，在一场巨大的龙卷风席卷你的城镇、卷起汽车、摧毁房屋之后，即使是一周后，也会有一些令人不安的新消息。
We started getting some calls that a lake-- actually kind of a pond in a development, older neighborhood that had been largely destroyed-- that they had drained it and found five bodies in the bottom of the lake.
我们开始接到一些电话，说有一个湖——实际上是一个开发区的一个池塘，老城区的大部分已被摧毁——他们已经排干了湖里的水，并在湖底发现了五具尸体。
This is Doug Ray, editor of the local paper, The Tuscaloosa News .
我是道格·雷，当地报纸《塔斯卡卢萨新闻》的编辑。
The thing about the bodies in the lake story, though, it just wasn't true.
然而，关于湖中尸体的故事并不是真的。
Neither were the others.
其他人也没有。
The first rumors we started hearing were Sunday afternoon.
我们开始听到的第一个谣言是在周日下午。
One rumor, that the former mayor had been killed.
有传言称前市长已被杀。
Not true.
不正确。
In fact, he'd stopped by the newspaper in person.
事实上，他亲自拜访了报纸。
Another, that the hospital morgue had a 150 bodies in it.
另一个消息是，医院太平间里有150具尸体。
also not true.
也不是真的。
It only holds six.
它只能容纳六个。
Wait, do y'all want to go through?
等等，你们都想经历吗？
I made a list.
我列了一个清单。
This week, Doug started a new beat, the Rumors Beat.
本周，道格开始了新的节拍，即谣言节拍。
And he put Stephanie Taylor on it, who started making a list.
他把斯蒂芬妮·泰勒列入其中，她开始列一份清单。
The mayor has allegedly ordered all cops and firefighters to shoot every dog they come across.
据称，市长已命令所有警察和消防员射杀他们遇到的每只狗。
This is a really grim rumor that we've heard, is that there were several children in the Chuck E.
这是我们听到的一个非常可怕的谣言，Chuck E 里有几个孩子。
Cheese-- it's a pizza place with games and stuff-- that were killed and were not pulled out.
奶酪——这是一家披萨店，里面有游戏和其他东西——被杀死了，没有被拉出来。
And I know for a fact that was not the case, because that's where I went.
我知道事实并非如此，因为那是我去过的地方。
I was out there five minutes after it happened.
事情发生五分钟后我就在外面。
There was nobody in that building at the time.
当时那栋楼里没有人。
I don't even think they were open.
我什至不认为他们是开放的。
And there's a few others that I need to put on the list.
我还需要将其他一些内容列入清单。
It's wild.
它很狂野。
It's gotten out of control at this point.
事态此时已经失控了。
Down here right now, it's hard to say what's a crazy rumor and what's a tip worth following up on, because a freaking tornado tore through town.
现在在这里，很难说什么是疯狂的谣言，什么是值得跟进的线索，因为一场可怕的龙卷风席卷了小镇。
Everything seems crazy.
一切看起来都很疯狂。
It's like, if that can happen, who knows what's true?
就好像，如果这能发生，谁知道真相是什么？
Stephanie had two stories on the front page the day I visited, one incredible one about a couple, Amy Hall and Keith Matthews.
我去的那天，斯蒂芬妮在头版上刊登了两个故事，其中一个是关于艾米·霍尔和基思·马修斯夫妇的令人难以置信的故事。
I went to visit them at a shelter.
我去避难所看望他们。
Amy says when the tornado hit, she was at home talking to Keith on the phone who was telling her, "Look out.
艾米说，龙卷风来袭时，她正在家里与基思通电话，基思告诉她：“小心。
I think the tornado is headed your way."
我认为龙卷风正在向你袭来。”
And I didn't take him serious at all.
而且我根本没把他当回事。
Then my power went out.
然后我的电源就断了。
So I'm like, OK.
所以我想，好吧。
He said, "Well, just look outside and see if you see it." And I looked outside, and it was right in the street in front of the house.
他说：“好吧，看看外面，看看有没有看到。”我往外看，它就在房子前面的街道上。
The tornado was.
龙卷风是。
Amy Hall The tornado was.
艾米·霍尔 龙卷风是。
And it seemed like it was just sitting there waiting to see, you know, for me to open the door, to say, "OK, well, you know I'm here.
你知道，它似乎只是坐在那里等着我开门，然后说：“好吧，好吧，你知道我在这里。
So I'm going to destroy your stuff." That's how it was just sitting there, turning.
所以我要毁了你的东西。”它就这样坐在那里，转动着。
So I closed the door.
于是我关上了门。
I locked the door like that was going to stop it, and I grabbed Kristen, my 10 month old, off the couch.
我锁上门，好像这样就可以阻止它一样，然后我把我 10 个月大的孩子克里斯汀从沙发上抱起来。
As soon as I was running through the little hallway to get to the bedroom where the kids were, the house just came up.
当我跑过小走廊去孩子们所在的卧室时，房子就出现了。
It just rose up in the air.
它刚刚升到空中。
The tornado lifted the house with her and her three kids in it.
龙卷风掀起了她和她的三个孩子的房子。
And we were we were floating, like, we couldn't move.
我们就像是漂浮着一样，无法移动。
We were just floating.
我们只是漂浮着。
What was it like being in the house when it is in the air?
当它在空中时，在房子里是什么感觉？
It was like a movie, something you would see on a movie.
这就像一部电影，你会在电影中看到的东西。
We were floating like astronauts.
我们像宇航员一样漂浮。
And I was holding Kristen, and I was still on my phone with Keith.
我抱着克里斯汀，而我还在和基思打电话。
So he could hear everything.
这样他就能听到一切。
I just heard a bunch of racket and stuff going everywhere, and the phone came disconnected.
我只听到到处都是喧闹声和杂音，然后电话就断了。
I just tried to get to them fast as I could.
我只是想尽快找到他们。
We was just shifting wherever the wind blew us, that's where we were going.
我们只是转移到风吹到的地方，那就是我们要去的地方。
And it just slammed us.
它只是猛烈地打击了我们。
We was a block and a half over from where our house actually was when we got out.
我们出去时，距离我们家实际所在的地方有一个半街区。
The tornado picked the house up and moved it a block and a half?
龙卷风把房子卷起来，移动了一个半街区？
Everyone survived.
每个人都活了下来。
Her littlest son was on his mattress and slept through the whole thing.
她最小的儿子在床垫上睡着了。
A relief worker told me she met a kid who said, "I flew in the sky like paper." So when you hear something like five bodies, 36 bodies found at the bottom of the lake, your response isn't, "No way." It's, "How awful." Here's Stephanie with the newspaper.
一位救援人员告诉我，她遇到一个孩子，他说：“我像纸一样在天上飞。”因此，当您听到湖底发现了 5 具尸体、36 具尸体之类的消息时，您的反应不是“不可能”。就是“多么可怕”。这是斯蒂芬妮拿着报纸。
I believed a few of them at first.
起初我相信其中一些。
I even wrote in a story that a man had been killed in a tobacco convenience store, and people were walking over his body to get cigarettes and soft drinks and things.
我什至在一篇报道中写到，一个人在一家烟草便利店被杀，人们从他身上走过去买香烟、软饮料之类的东西。
Because when I was out on the street, I heard that from at least four people.
因为当我在街上时，我至少听到四个人这么说。
And one was an official person, and he was repeating this as if it was truth.
还有一个是官方人士，他重复着这句话，就好像这是事实一样。
And I came back here, and I checked with my boss.
我回到这里，和我的老板核实了。
And he said, "Go with it." And I wrote it.
他说：“就这样吧。”我写了它。
And the more I've thought about it, the more unlikely it seems.
我越想，就越觉得不太可能。
But on the first day, when there was so much pandemonium, and so much information coming from everywhere, it seemed like something that could've happened and probably did happen, to me.
但在第一天，当有如此多的混乱、如此多的信息从四面八方传来时，对我来说，这似乎是可能发生的事情，而且很可能确实发生了。
And the longer I've had to stew on it, I don't think that it did, but--
我不得不在它上面炖的时间越长，我不认为它会起作用，但是——
A lot of these seem to be also-- about the bodies.
其中很多似乎也与身体有关。
Like, there was a house there that's not there, and where are the people?
就像，那里有一座房子，但现在不在那里，人在哪里？
It's kind of that question, because you don't always get the body, right?
这是一个问题，因为你并不总能得到尸体，对吧？
It's like, where did the people go?
就好像，人都去哪儿了？
Where did the house go?
房子去哪儿了？
Where did life go?
生命去哪儿了？
Right.
正确的。
And I think a lot of people have called us to ask about whether there were 36 bodies in the bottom of this lake.
我想很多人都打电话给我们询问湖底是否有36具尸体。
And they argue with us when we tell them, no. That's not happened.
当我们告诉他们“不”时，他们就会与我们争论。那并没有发生。
They did not drain the lake.
他们没有排干湖水。
We've seen it.
我们已经看到了。
It's still there.
它还在那里。
There's still water in the lake.
湖里还有水。
The mayor told that they did not drain the lake.
市长告诉他们，他们没有排干湖水。
And they argue and say, "They did.
他们争辩说：“他们做到了。
They did drain the lake, and they did find these bodies in there." And then, I mean what do you say back to that?
他们确实排干了湖水，也确实在那里发现了这些尸体。”然后，我的意思是你对此有何评论？
It seems like they want to believe it, in a way.
在某种程度上，他们似乎想相信这一点。
Maybe because that would kind of resolve where these people are, rather than not knowing where they are.
也许是因为这可以解决这些人在哪里，而不是不知道他们在哪里。
I don't know.
我不知道。
I don't know what makes people want to believe it.
我不知道是什么让人们愿意相信它。
It's just-- I don't know.
只是——我不知道。
One thing, I get home and I'll turn on the television and turn on my computer and have it in my lap, and just read this stuff all day long.
有一件事，我回到家，我会打开电视，打开电脑，把它放在腿上，整天阅读这些东西。
And in the car on the way home, I'm listening to the radio station, and they've been going constantly, 24 hours a day since this happened.
在回家的车里，我正在听广播电台，自从这件事发生以来，他们每天 24 小时都在不停地播放。
People are calling in, "We need these items." That kind of stuff.
人们打电话来说：“我们需要这些物品。”那种东西。
And I can't seem to turn it off.
而且我似乎无法将其关闭。
And maybe I should.
也许我应该。
But I think a lot of people are like me.
但我想很多人都和我一样。
And that might be where a lot of these stories are coming up.
这可能就是很多这样的故事发生的地方。
Because it's information overload.
因为这是信息超载。
It's all anybody has been talking about or thinking about or doing for the past week.
这是过去一周每个人都在谈论、思考或做的事情。
I went to see the lake.
我去看湖了。
It hadn't been drained.
它还没有被排干。
The houses around it were gone or badly damaged.
周围的房屋已经消失或严重损坏。
The tornado had stripped the trees.
龙卷风刮走了树木。
They looked like giant sticks stuck in the ground.
它们看起来就像插在地上的巨大棍子。
David Kestenbaum as part of our Planet Money team.
David Kestenbaum 是 Planet Money 团队的一员。
All the songs that we're featuring in today's show, by the way, were released this week.
顺便说一句，我们在今天的节目中展示的所有歌曲均于本周发布。
This one is by an Alabama rap group, G-Side featuring Chris Lee, about the tornado.
这是由克里斯·李 (Chris Lee) 主演的阿拉巴马说唱团体 G-Side 创作的关于龙卷风的歌曲。
[MUSIC - "THE BLACKOUT" BY G-SIDE FEATURING CHRIS LEE]
[音乐 - G-SIDE 的“THE BLACKOUT”，克里斯·李 (Chris Lee) 主演]
Thursday night of this week, the first Republican presidential primary debate was held in Greenville, South Carolina.
本周四晚，首场共和党总统初选辩论在南卡罗来纳州格林维尔举行。
Most of the political world treated it as a joke.
大多数政界人士都将其视为一个笑话。
The candidates with the best poll numbers skipped it.
民意支持率最高的候选人跳过了它。
No Mitt Romney.
没有米特·罗姆尼。
No Mike Huckabee.
没有迈克·赫卡比。
Not even Donald Trump.
甚至唐纳德·特朗普也没有。
One Republican called the debate "a beauty contest where everybody is ugly."
一位共和党人称这场辩论是“一场选美比赛，每个人都很丑”。
But there's another way to look at this debate.
但还有另一种方式来看待这场辩论。
For the few fringe candidates who did show up, this was their one big moment to get noticed.
对于少数确实出现的边缘候选人来说，这是他们受到关注的一个重要时刻。
Robert Smith traveled down to Greenville, South Carolina to follow them through the experience.
罗伯特·史密斯前往南卡罗来纳州格林维尔跟随他们经历了这段经历。
There's a political rule that applies to even the most minor candidates.
有一条政治规则甚至适用于最次要的候选人。
Never admit you're losing.
永远不要承认你输了。
No matter how badly you're doing in the polls, you have to pretend that you're one of the big dogs.
无论你在民意调查中的表现有多糟糕，你都必须假装自己是大人物之一。
And that's why it was sort of amazing for me to hear a guy named Herman Cain admit last week that he really, really needed this debate.
这就是为什么我上周听到一个名叫赫尔曼·凯恩的人承认他真的非常需要这场辩论，这让我感到有点惊讶。
I think that this first debate could potentially move me to what they call, "top tier." There's still a lot of people who don't know who Herman Cain is.
我认为第一场辩论可能会将我推向他们所谓的“顶级”。仍然有很多人不知道赫尔曼·凯恩是谁。
So my goal after that first debate is for people to be going, "Who is this guy?"
所以我的目标是让人们在第一次辩论后问：“这个人是谁？”
Herman Cain is the pizza man.
赫尔曼·凯恩是披萨师傅。
He was the CEO of Godfather's Pizza.
他是教父披萨的首席执行官。
And he's never been elected to anything.
而且他从未当选过任何职务。
Cain's poll numbers are mostly non-existent, and by that, I mean not there at all.
凯恩的民意调查数字大多不存在，我的意思是根本不存在。
Most of the pollsters don't even ask about him.
大多数民意调查者甚至没有询问他的情况。
But on the morning of the Republican debate he was touring Greenville, South Carolina, breaking another rule of politics-- don't set the expectations too high.
但在共和党辩论的当天早上，他正在南卡罗来纳州格林维尔巡回演出，这打破了另一条政治规则——不要把期望定得太高。
I am here playing to win.
我来这里是为了获胜。
Robert Smith And you're willing to say it.
罗伯特·史密斯：你愿意这么说。
And I'm willing to say it.
我愿意这么说。
And I want my ideas to cut through all of the political clutter.
我希望我的想法能够消除所有的政治混乱。
That's what my goal is tonight.
这就是我今晚的目标。
For Cain, this isn't just bluster, because he actually has done this before.
对于该隐来说，这不仅仅是虚张声势，因为他以前确实这样做过。
He had a moment when he did cut through the political clutter, when he took on the President of the United States.
当他接任美国总统时，他确实摆脱了政治混乱。
And he won.
他赢了。
Thank you very much, Mr. President.
非常感谢您，总统先生。
Thank you very much for this opportunity.
非常感谢您给我这个机会。
And I would first like to commend you on making healthcare a national priority.
我首先要赞扬您将医疗保健作为国家优先事项。
It was 1994 and President Clinton was holding a series of televised town hall meetings about his new plan that would require businesses to provide health insurance.
那是 1994 年，克林顿总统召开了一系列电视转播的市政厅会议，讨论他的新计划，该计划要求企业提供健康保险。
Cain was picked for the audience because he ran Godfather's.
凯恩被选为观众是因为他经营教父餐厅。
I remember standing up, and that's when they came to me.
我记得我站了起来，就在那时他们向我走来。
Mr. President, my question is quite simply, if I'm forced to do this, what will I tell those people whose jobs I will have to eliminate?
总统先生，我的问题很简单，如果我被迫这样做，我会告诉那些我将不得不取消其工作的人？
Well, let's talk a minute about what you would have to do.
好吧，让我们花点时间讨论一下您必须做什么。
If you could design a training program for participating in a presidential debate, this is what it would look like, tussling for eight minutes back and forth with Bill Clinton.
如果你可以设计一个参加总统辩论的训练计划，那么它就是这样的，与比尔·克林顿来回争吵八分钟。
What followed was perhaps the most complicated mathematical discussion that's ever been broadcast on prime time.
接下来的可能是黄金时段播出的最复杂的数学讨论。
Cain and Clinton were arguing payroll numbers, profit percentages.
凯恩和克林顿正在争论工资数字、利润百分比。
And the whole time, Cain could feel these TV cameras.
整个过程中，凯恩都能感觉到这些电视摄像机。
So I knew that millions of people would be watching me for the very first time in my life.
所以我知道数百万人将在我生命中第一次观看我。
That was probably the most nervous I had ever been.
那可能是我最紧张的一次。
OK, first of all, Mr. President, with all due respect, your calculation on what the impact would do, quite honestly, is incorrect.
好吧，首先，总统先生，恕我直言，老实说，您对影响的计算是不正确的。
A few more minutes of this, President Clinton was ready to move on.
又过了几分钟，克林顿总统准备继续前进。
Let me ask you a favor.
让我请你帮个忙。
Would you send to me personally your calculations?
您能亲自将您的计算结果发给我吗？
Even 17 years later, this moment have never faded for Cain.
即使17年后，这个时刻对于该隐来说也从未消失。
The most animated he gets in our interview is when he talks about the morning after Clinton.
在我们的采访中，他最兴奋的是当他谈到克林顿去世后的第二天早上。
His wife came to him while he was in the shower.
当他洗澡时，他的妻子来找他。
Dun, dun, dun.
敦，敦，敦。
"Herman, you're on CNN and every channel." I said, "What did I do?
“赫尔曼，你出现在 CNN 和每个频道上。”我说：“我做了什么？
I didn't kill anybody." I came out, and it was the lead story.
我没有杀任何人。”我出来了，这就是头条新闻。
Ted Koppel, that night, summarized it, "Last night in Omaha, Nebraska, the pizza man from Omaha stumped President Clinton concerning his health care plan." I was shocked.
那天晚上，特德·科佩尔总结道：“昨晚在内布拉斯加州奥马哈，来自奥马哈的披萨师傅就他的医疗保健计划难倒了克林顿总统。”我很震惊。
And apparently hooked.
显然已经上瘾了。
Cain started traveling the country giving motivational speeches.
凯恩开始在全国各地发表励志演讲。
He wrote books with titles like, CEO of Self , all about how he became a success in fast food, and brought down the President's health care plan.
他写过一些书，书名是《自我的首席执行官》，讲述了他如何在快餐业取得成功，并推翻了总统的医疗保健计划。
Herman Cain had tasted glory.
赫尔曼·该隐尝到了荣耀的滋味。
And now, in his first presidential debate, he wanted more.
现在，在他的第一次总统辩论中，他想要更多。
Herman Cain on every channel.
赫尔曼·凯恩出现在各个频道。
Every channel, Herman Cain.
每个频道，赫尔曼·凯恩。
Bret Baier Good evening, I'm Bret Baier.
布雷特·拜尔 晚上好，我是布雷特·拜尔。
Tonight's first Republican presidential debate is being sponsored by Fox News and the Republican Party of South Carolina.
今晚的第一场共和党总统辩论由福克斯新闻和南卡罗来纳州共和党赞助。
And 17 years later, Cain was back in a live, televised debate.
17 年后，凯恩再次参加现场电视辩论。
Up on stage with politicians like Congressman Ron Paul, and former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty.
与国会议员罗恩·保罗和前明尼苏达州州长蒂姆·波伦蒂等政治家一起登上舞台。
The debate started with foreign policy, and Cain struggled to come up with the answers.
争论始于外交政策，凯恩努力想出答案。
One of the things that I've always prided myself on is making an informed decision based upon knowing all the facts.
我一直引以为豪的一件事是在了解所有事实的基础上做出明智的决定。
And at this point, I don't know all of the facts, but that's the process that I would use.
目前，我还不知道所有事实，但这就是我将使用的过程。
We talked before the debate about his strategy.
我们在辩论前讨论了他的策略。
He told me how he had written out some good lines, was planning to get some jokes in.
他告诉我他如何写出一些好台词，并计划加入一些笑话。
But up on stage, you could see him making the rookie mistake of actually answering the questions.
但在舞台上，你可以看到他犯了真正回答问题的菜鸟错误。
He wasn't getting that big moment back, even though he tried the same move on the moderator that he tried on Clinton.
尽管他对主持人采取了与对克林顿相同的举措，但他并没有重获那个重要时刻。
Well, Chris, with all due respect, your experts are dead wrong.
好吧，克里斯，恕我直言，你的专家是完全错误的。
Because I have studied the fair tax for a long time.
因为我对公平税收研究了很长时间。
First of all--
首先——
But then his answer sort of droned on after that.
但此后他的回答有点单调。
It turns out that challenging a reporter isn't the same as challenging a president.
事实证明，挑战记者并不等同于挑战总统。
And it occurred to me as I watched him that I had completely misunderstood that moment in 1994.
当我看着他时，我突然意识到我完全误解了 1994 年的那一刻。
Herman Cain didn't take down President Clinton and his health care plan.
赫尔曼·凯恩并没有推翻克林顿总统和他的医疗保健计划。
President Clinton elevated Herman Cain.
克林顿总统提升了赫尔曼·凯恩的地位。
Being on stage with four other also-rans wasn't helping.
与其他四名落选者一起登上舞台并没有帮助。
And this time he was going to have to do it himself.
而这一次，他必须亲自去做。
Then, it happened.
然后，事情发生了。
The moderator, finally near the end, asked a question made for a motivational speaker like Cain.
最后，主持人向凯恩这样的励志演说家提出了一个问题。
You have an impressive personal history, sir, but why do you have any belief that you stand a chance to win this nomination, let alone the Presidency?
先生，您有着令人印象深刻的个人经历，但为什么您相信自己有机会赢得这次提名，更不用说总统职位了？
A couple of reasons.
有几个原因。
Most of the people that are in elective office in Washington, DC, they have held public office before.
大多数在华盛顿特区担任民选公职的人以前都曾担任过公职。
How's that working for you?
这对你来说怎么样？
Bingo.
宾果游戏。
It turned out to be the catch phrase of the debate.
事实证明，这成为了辩论的流行语。
Never mind that he's been trying it out for months.
别介意他已经尝试了几个月了。
He tried it on us last week.
上周他在我们身上试过了。
Apparently, quite well.
显然，相当不错。
After the debate, Fox News did a focus group.
辩论结束后，福克斯新闻进行了焦点小组讨论。
Half the people said Cain won.
一半的人认为该隐赢了。
His staff excitedly told me that after the quip, Cain was the 15th most trending topic on Twitter.
他的员工兴奋地告诉我，在这句俏皮话之后，凯恩成为 Twitter 上第 15 位最热门话题。
But Herman Cain seemed to know that this didn't have quite the same electricity as it did back in 1994.
但赫尔曼·凯恩 (Herman Cain) 似乎知道，这里的电力与 1994 年不同。
I wouldn't call it a breakthrough, but I would call it a heightened awareness of this guy named Herman Cain.
我不会称之为突破，但我会称之为对赫尔曼·凯恩这个人的认识的提高。
And I hope the takeaway that people had was, we need to take a closer look at this guy.
我希望人们得到的结论是，我们需要仔细观察这个人。
The morning after the debate, I flipped the channels.
辩论结束后的第二天早上，我换了台。
And Cain was right to be wary of claiming victory.
该隐对宣称胜利持谨慎态度是正确的。
Most news outlets didn't even mention the debate happened.
大多数新闻媒体甚至没有提及这场辩论的发生。
Robert Smith is another member of our Planet Money team.
罗伯特·史密斯是我们 Planet Money 团队的另一位成员。
Planet Money is a co-production of our show and NPR News.
Planet Money 是我们的节目和 NPR 新闻的联合制作。
You can get their free podcasts at NPR.org/money.
您可以在 NPR.org/money 获取他们的免费播客。
Here's somebody else who had a big week this week.
这是本周度过了重要一周的其他人。
My name is Laura Hucke.
我叫劳拉·哈克。
I just graduated yesterday at 2 o'clock.
我昨天下午两点刚毕业。
And I don't know what I want to do, and I don't know where I want to move.
我不知道自己想做什么，也不知道自己想搬到哪里。
So that poses a problem.
所以这就带来了一个问题。
After graduating from the University of Florida in Gainesville on Saturday, Laura got into her car to make a trip that she really hadn't hoped she would be making four years ago.
周六，劳拉从盖恩斯维尔的佛罗里达大学毕业后，坐上车开始了一次四年前她根本没想到会进行的旅行。
She didn't have a job, so she was moving back in with her parents.
她没有工作，所以她搬回父母身边。
1.6 million people will graduate from college over the next month into what is still a very tough economy.
下个月将有 160 万人大学毕业，但经济形势依然严峻。
This week also happens to be the one year anniversary of when our own intern, Eric Mennel, graduated from college and made the exact same trip to move back in with his parents, jobless.
本周也恰好是我们的实习生埃里克·门内尔 (Eric Mennel) 大学毕业一周年纪念日，他也做了同样的旅行，搬回失业的父母身边。
So we sent him along for the ride with Laura.
所以我们派他和劳拉一起去兜风。
When I first showed up at Laura's apartment, she was visibly freaked out.
当我第一次出现在劳拉的公寓时，她明显吓坏了。
She had just called her mom and dad almost crying.
她刚刚给爸爸妈妈打电话，几乎哭了。
I was packing and my trunk was almost full.
我正在收拾行李，我的行李箱几乎装满了。
So I guess I was trying to fit something in there.
所以我想我是想在里面放点东西。
And I was pushing it in, and I had to put my keys down.
当我把它推进去时，我不得不放下钥匙。
And I guess I put them in the trunk because I wasn't thinking very straight.
我想我把它们放进后备箱是因为我没有思考清楚。
I just closed it, and I'm like, "Yes!
我刚关上它，我就想：“是的！
It fit." Then I realized my keys are in there.
很合适。”然后我意识到我的钥匙就在那里。
I was just like, of course this would happen when I'm trying to leave, the day I'm trying to leave, you know.
我当时想，当然，当我试图离开时，在我试图离开的那天，这会发生，你知道。
She'd packed mostly the night before.
她前一天晚上就收拾好了大部分行李。
So 30 minutes later when the locksmith showed up, we were on the road.
30分钟后，当锁匠出现时，我们就上路了。
When Laura started college, she wanted to be a book editor.
当劳拉开始上大学时，她想成为一名图书编辑。
She figured she'd live in New York or maybe LA, anywhere but Coral Springs, Florida, where she grew up.
她想她会住在纽约或者洛杉矶，除了她长大的佛罗里达州科勒尔斯普林斯以外的任何地方。
But by her senior year, Laura just couldn't get it together to apply for any jobs.
但到了大四时，劳拉就无法集中精力申请任何工作。
She was overwhelmed by all the possibilities.
她对所有的可能性感到不知所措。
She had no idea where to start.
她不知道从哪里开始。
And she battles with a sometimes crippling lack of self-confidence.
她有时还与极度缺乏自信作斗争。
I definitely feel a huge sense of helplessness or something that's really overwhelming.
我确实感到一种巨大的无助感或者某种真正压倒性的感觉。
And I'm already in that pit of negativity, of, like, I don't have any experience.
我已经陷入了消极的深渊，比如，我没有任何经验。
I'm never going to get a good job that I want.
我永远找不到我想要的好工作。
How am I going to get a job?
我怎样才能找到工作？
I have nothing on my resume.
我的简历上什么都没有。
All my friends had internships, and they're getting all these amazing jobs, and they're moving away.
我所有的朋友都实习过，他们得到了所有这些很棒的工作，但他们要搬走了。
What's my plan after college?
大学毕业后我的计划是什么？
I'm moving back home, like I'm a failure.
我要搬回家了，就像我是个失败者一样。
I don't want to be one those 30-year-old people living in their parents' house.
我不想成为那些住在父母家里的三十岁的人。
That's just a complete failure.
这简直就是彻底的失败。
I feel like my whole life people have just told me how smart I am and how I'm so destined for greatness.
我觉得我一生都在告诉我，我是多么聪明，我是如何注定伟大的。
To not achieve that is just unfathomable.
达不到这一目标是难以想象的。
When I graduated to move back home a year ago, I spent the first couple of nights sleeping on my kid sister's top bunk.
一年前，当我毕业搬回家时，头几个晚上我睡在我妹妹的上铺上。
I couldn't land a job.
我找不到工作。
And after two weeks, then a month, then six months without any real sense of direction, it was easily the saddest and most depressed I've ever been in my life.
两周后，一个月，六个月后，我没有任何真正的方向感，这无疑是我一生中最悲伤、最沮丧的经历。
So I felt like I knew what Laura was in for.
所以我觉得我知道劳拉的处境。
And for one thing, it changes your relationship with your parents.
一方面，它改变了你与父母的关系。
It's awkward.
很尴尬。
You get annoyed with them.
你对他们很恼火。
They get annoyed with you.
他们对你很恼火。
And Laura says she and her mom have always fought a lot, even before this.
劳拉说，她和她妈妈一直吵架，甚至在此之前也是如此。
I'll give you an example of the stupid crap that goes on between me and my mom.
我给你举一个我和我妈妈之间发生的愚蠢的例子。
I'm sitting at my kitchen table eating lunch, and she's sitting at her desk on the computer, and she's watching a tennis match.
我坐在厨房的桌子旁吃午餐，她坐在办公桌前玩电脑，正在看网球比赛。
And she was saying something about it.
她正在谈论这件事。
And I had said, "Oh.
我说：“哦。
It got postponed because it was raining?" And she goes, "No, it got delayed." And I was like, "Isn't that the same thing?" And she goes, "Well, no. Postponed and delayed are two totally different things." And I'm like, "Well, don't they both mean putting something off to a later time?" I'm like, "Why are you fighting with me about what delayed and postponed is?"
因为下雨所以推迟了？”她说：“不，它被推迟了。”我当时想，“这不是同一件事吗？”她说：“嗯，不。推迟和推迟是完全不同的两件事。”我想，“好吧，他们不是都意味着把事情推迟到以后吗？”我想，“你为什么和我争论什么是延迟和推迟？”
Her dad comes out to help her unload stuff for her bedroom.
她爸爸出来帮她卸下卧室里的东西。
Before she went to college, the room was pink with green carpet.
在她上大学之前，房间是粉红色的，铺着绿色的地毯。
But while she was gone, her parents painted it the color they liked, the color of the rest of the house, brown, which she hates.
但当她离开时，她的父母把它涂成他们喜欢的颜色，房子其他部分的颜色，棕色，她讨厌这种颜色。
After talking to Laura's mom, Amy, and dad, Charlie, it's clear that as much as Laura doesn't like the idea of living at home, they wouldn't call it ideal either.
在与劳拉的妈妈艾米和爸爸查理交谈后，很明显，尽管劳拉不喜欢住在家里的想法，但他们也不认为这是理想的。
My expectation is she's going to come back home and expect it to be like it was before.
我的期望是她回家后会像以前一样。
And I don't think it should be that way.
我认为不应该这样。
I think she's a grown up now, and she should behave as a grown up.
我觉得她现在已经是个成年人了，她应该像个成年人一样行事。
So I see conflict.
所以我看到了冲突。
From Laura's mom's point of view, that's the main danger here, that Laura won't respect her boundaries and priorities.
从劳拉妈妈的角度来看，这是这里的主要危险，劳拉不会尊重她的界限和优先事项。
That she'll act like a kid.
她会表现得像个孩子。
I asked about their fights, and what they remembered about the tennis argument.
我询问了他们的战斗情况，以及他们对网球争论的记忆。
She considers it a conflict.
她认为这是一种冲突。
I didn't even remember it.
我什至不记得了。
You remembered it.
你记住了。
My recollection is that Amy was right and Laura was wrong in the definition of what postponed and delayed were.
我的记忆是，对于推迟和延迟的定义，艾米是对的，劳拉是错误的。
But when they get into stuff like that, I stay out of it, because I don't want to get in the middle of anything.
但当他们卷入这样的事情时，我会置身事外，因为我不想卷入任何事情。
When you get in the middle of something, you're making a mistake, especially with two of them, because they're both right.
当你陷入某件事时，你就犯了错误，尤其是其中两个，因为他们都是对的。
So how could I possibly be right, OK?
那么我怎么可能是对的呢？
There's something interesting.
有一些有趣的事情。
You said, "As I remember it, Amy was right." So if I was right, why didn't you get involved and stop the argument so it didn't get unpleasant for both Laura and me?
你说：“据我所知，艾米是对的。”那么，如果我是对的，你为什么不介入并停止争论，以免劳拉和我都感到不愉快呢？
My prognosis-- they're doomed.
我的预测——他们注定失败。
As of Monday, everyone was still getting along.
截至周一，每个人仍然相处融洽。
By Thursday, the story was a little different.
到了周四，情况有点不同了。
Laura's dad went into her room to pull a guitar amp out from under the bed.
劳拉的爸爸走进她的房间，从床底下拿出一个吉他音箱。
He had been storing it there while she was away at school.
当她不在学校时，他一直把它存放在那里。
As he was walking out, he bumped into her dresser.
当他走出去时，他撞到了她的梳妆台。
The flat iron she uses for her hair fell on the floor.
她用来烫头发的直发器掉到了地板上。
Laura gave him attitude.
劳拉给了他态度。
He got into a fight with his wife over it.
他为此与妻子发生争执。
As of Friday, Laura still hadn't finished unpacking.
截至周五，劳拉仍未完成拆包工作。
[MUSIC - "HELPLESSNESS BLUES" BY FLEET FOXES]
[音乐 - FLEET FoxES 的“无助蓝调”]
Well, our program is produced today by our senior producer, Julie Snyder, and Sarah Koenig, with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Jane Feltes, Lisa Pollak, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and our colleagues at Planet Money, Adam Davidson, Jess Jiang, Chana Joffe-Walt, Caitlin Kenney, and Baldur Hedinsson.
嗯，我们的节目今天由我们的高级制片人 Julie Snyder 和 Sarah Koenig 以及 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Jane Feltes、Lisa Pollak、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 以及 Planet Money 的同事 Adam Davidson、Jess Jiang、Chana Joffe-Walt、Caitlin Kenney 和 Baldur Hedinsson 共同制作。
Production help from Eric Mennel.
埃里克·门内尔 (Eric Mennel) 提供制作帮助。
Seth Lind is our production manager, Emily Condon's our office manager.
Seth Lind 是我们的生产经理，Emily Condon 是我们的办公室经理。
Jen Berman's filling in as our West Coast producer.
珍·伯曼 (Jen Berman) 担任我们的西海岸制片人。
Original newsy but not too newsy sounding music for today's program by Cassettes Won't Listen.
Cassettes Won't Listen 为今天的节目提供原创新闻但听起来不太新闻的音乐。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] Our website, where you can get our free weekly podcast, thisamericanlife.org.
[鸣谢] 我们的网站 thisamericanlife.org，您可以在其中获取我们的免费每周播客。
This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our show by our boss, Torey Malatia, who's been walking around-- oy-- with this new catchphrase.
我们的老板托里·马拉蒂亚 (Torey Malatia) 对我们的节目进行 WBEZ 管理监督，他一直带着这个新口号四处走动。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。