433: Fine Print 2011 - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #433 | April 15, 2011 433: Fine Print 2011 Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 433 集 | 2011 年 4 月 15 日 433：精美印刷版 2011 注：《This American Life》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass The way I always heard the story was that Van Halen had something in the contract that they used when they toured that said that everywhere that they went, in every city, in every dressing room on their tour, there had to be a bowl of M&Ms, and that the brown M&Ms had to be removed.
序言 Ira Glass 我一直听到这个故事的方式是，Van Halen 在他们巡演时使用的合同中规定，无论他们走到哪里，在每个城市，在巡演的每个更衣室里，都必须有一碗 M&M 巧克力豆，并且必须将棕色的 M&M 巧克力豆移走。
It's kind of a well-known story, I think.
我认为这是一个众所周知的故事。
And the way that I understood it is that it showed what divas rock stars could be, that any whim that they had would have to be met, no matter how petty.
我的理解是，它展示了摇滚明星的魅力，他们的任何突发奇想都必须得到满足，无论多么小。
You hate brown M&Ms?
你讨厌棕色巧克力豆吗？
Poof!
噗！
They will cease to exist in your world.
他们将不再存在于你的世界中。
And then a couple of years ago, we had this band, They Might Be Giants, on our radio show.
几年前，我们的广播节目中出现了一支名为“他们可能是巨人”的乐队。
And by the way, you're listening to This American Life from WBEZ Chicago, distributed by Public Radio International.
顺便说一句，您正在收听 WBEZ 芝加哥的《This American Life》，由国际公共广播电台发行。
Anyway, we had this band on the show.
无论如何，我们有这个乐队参加演出。
And I got to know them a little bit.
我对他们有了一点了解。
And I had never talked to a touring rock musician about that story.
我从未与巡回演出的摇滚音乐家谈论过这个故事。
And I remember John Flansburgh saying to me, no, no, no, no, no. I had the meaning of the story totally wrong.
我记得约翰·弗兰斯堡对我说，不，不，不，不，不。我完全错误地理解了这个故事的含义。
I think there was only one "no," Ira.
我认为只有一个“不”，艾拉。
This is John.
这是约翰。
I asked him to come and talk about this with me again today, here on the radio.
我请他今天再次在广播中与我谈论这件事。
He told me that the music industry name for what we were discussing was the contract rider.
他告诉我，我们正在讨论的音乐行业名称是合同骑手。
The thing that the average rock fan doesn't realize is that, in the itinerant life of somebody in a rock band, they're relying on a promoter-- probably a different promoter every day-- to give them everything.
一般摇滚乐迷没有意识到的是，在摇滚乐队成员的巡回生活中，他们依靠发起人——可能每天都有不同的发起人——来给他们一切。
And a contract rider is basically the entire show from beginning to end.
合同车手基本上是整个节目从头到尾的一部分。
I mean, you're talking about personnel.
我的意思是，你说的是人员。
You're talking about the PA.
你说的是PA。
So a lot of it's very prosaic stuff.
所以很多都是非常平淡的东西。
People really focus on the dressing room stuff, but actually most of it is just making sure that there's literally enough electricity in the venue so that the show doesn't end after 10 minutes.
人们真正关注的是更衣室的事情，但实际上大部分只是确保场地有足够的电力，以便演出不会在 10 分钟后结束。
And this, Flansburgh says, was what was so ingenious about the brown M&Ms. Van Halen had this huge setup with lots of gear, and if the local promoter didn't carefully read the contract rider, stuff could collapse.
弗兰斯堡说，这就是棕色 M&M 巧克力豆的巧妙之处。范·海伦（Van Halen）拥有庞大的设施和大量的装备，如果当地的发起人没有仔细阅读合同车手，事情可能会崩溃。
It could be dangerous.
这可能很危险。
So the brown M&Ms were like the canary in the coal mine.
所以棕色的巧克力豆就像煤矿里的金丝雀。
The contract rider said the brown M&Ms were not supposed to be there.
合同骑手说棕色的 M&M 巧克力豆不应该放在那里。
If they were there, look out.
如果他们在那里，请小心。
You know, it was a very clever way to make sure that all the specifics of his contract rider were going to be met, including technical requirements, safety requirements, all the things that David Lee Roth is probably more worried about than his actual M&M needs.
你知道，这是一种非常聪明的方法，可以确保满足他的合同骑手的所有具体要求，包括技术要求、安全要求，以及大卫·李·罗斯可能比他实际的 M&M 需求更担心的所有事情。
Yeah.
是的。
Actually, in his autobiography, he writes this.
事实上，他在自传中是这么写的。
I found this on snopes.com.
我在 snopes.com 上找到了这个。
He explains the M&Ms this way.
他这样解释M&M巧克力豆。
David Lee Roth writes, "Van Halen was the first band to take huge productions into third level markets."
大卫·李·罗斯 (David Lee Roth) 写道：“范·海伦是第一支将大量作品带入第三层市场的乐队。”
Tertiary markets is the word we use in the business.
三级市场是我们在业务中使用的词。
Tertiary markets.
三级市场。
"We'd pull up with nine 18-wheeler trucks full of gear in places where the standard was three trucks max.
“我们会用九辆装满装备的 18 轮卡车停在标准最多三辆卡车的地方。
And there were many, many technical errors, whether it was the girders couldn't support the weight, or the flooring would sink in, or the doors weren't big enough to move the gear through.
还有很多很多技术错误，无论是大梁无法支撑重量，还是地板会下陷，或者门不够大，无法让装备通过。
The contract rider read like a version of the Chinese Yellow Pages, because there was so much equipment, and so many human beings to make it function.
合同骑手读起来就像是中国黄页的一个版本，因为有如此多的设备和如此多的人员来使其发挥作用。
So just as a little test, in article number 126, in the middle of nowhere was, quote, 'There will be no brown M&Ms in the backstage area upon pain of forfeiture of the show with full compensation,' end quote."
因此，就像一个小测试一样，在第 126 篇文章中，在不知名的地方引用了这样的话：“后台区域将不会有棕色 M&M 巧克力豆，否则将被没收演出并给予全额赔偿”，引用结束。
So, he writes, "When I would walk backstage, if I saw a brown M&M in that bowl, well, line check the entire production, guaranteed you're going to arrive at a technical error.
所以，他写道，“当我走到后台时，如果我看到碗里有一颗棕色的 M&M，那么，就对整个生产过程进行线路检查，保证会出现技术错误。
They didn't read the contract.
他们没有阅读合同。
Guaranteed, you'd run into a problem.
保证，你会遇到问题。
Sometimes it would threaten to destroy the whole show.
有时它会威胁到毁掉整个演出。
Sometimes literally life threatening."
有时确实会危及生命。”
Wow.
哇。
Ira Glass Now, when I emailed you to see if you wanted to come on the radio and talk about this, you said, "Oh, that's really a coincidence." Because you just spent your whole day yesterday working on your contract rider?
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）现在，当我给你发电子邮件询问你是否愿意在广播中谈论这个问题时，你说：“哦，这真是一个巧合。”因为你昨天刚刚花了一整天的时间在你的合同骑手上工作？
Basically, a couple days ago, I was looking at the contract rider, which was 25 pages long.
基本上，几天前，我正在查看 25 页长的合同附加条款。
And I realized it was this crazy, Frankenstein document that-- there was some really odd, vestigial stuff.
我意识到这是一份疯狂的、弗兰肯斯坦式的文件——里面有一些非常奇怪的、残留的东西。
I mean I actually found-- we have all these personnel requirements for loaders, and electricians, and fly riggers, and all these people.
我的意思是我实际上发现——我们对装载机、电工、吊装工以及所有这些人员有所有这些人员需求。
There's 30 people that the promoter is going to hire on our behalf, and they have very specific job descriptions.
发起人将代表我们雇用 30 名员工，他们有非常具体的职位描述。
But in only half of them did we require that they be sober.
但只有一半的人我们要求他们保持清醒。
Wait, your contract for some of them says specifically they have to be sober?
等等，你们中的一些人的合同明确规定他们必须保持清醒？
It was such a hodgepodge that we had, in some cases-- What had happened is that we had had a bunch of loaders that had come in from another show the night before that had ended at 5:00 in the morning.
在某些情况下，我们的情况就像是一个大杂烩——所发生的情况是，我们有一堆装载机，这些装载机是从前一天晚上凌晨 5:00 结束的另一场演出中运来的。
And they came to our show at 7:00 in the morning to, literally, do another show.
他们早上 7:00 来到我们的演出，实际上是为了再做一场演出。
And they all got drunk in the couple of hours in between.
中间的几个小时里他们都喝醉了。
So in our contract rider, we said the loaders have to be sober.
所以在我们的合同骑手中，我们说装载机必须保持清醒。
But unfortunately, the way a contract reads, it looks like you're kind of implying that everybody else can be drunk.
但不幸的是，从合同的内容来看，你似乎在暗示其他人都可以喝醉。
And no one had ever thought to cross it out.
没有人想过把它划掉。
Is there an M&Ms clause in your contract?
你们的合同中有 M&Ms 条款吗？
There are some-- It's such a personal thing.
有一些——这是非常个人的事情。
It's like asking somebody what's in their medicine chest.
这就像问某人的药箱里有什么。
There are no M&Ms on our-- We have, like, hummus and tabouli.
我们的巧克力豆没有——我们有鹰嘴豆泥和塔博利巧克力。
You would think it was Sarah McLachlan the way our contract rider reads.
你可能会认为我们的合同骑手读的是莎拉·麦克拉克兰 (Sarah McLachlan)。
I mean more, is there an M&Ms clause, is there a thing in your contract that you put in there to be sure that people read the contract?
我的意思是，是否有 M&M 巧克力豆条款，您的合同中是否添加了一些内容以确保人们阅读合同？
I think the first line of our contract is the promoter needs to call our tour manager when he gets this rider.
我认为我们合同的第一行是主办方在找到这位车手时需要给我们的巡回赛经理打电话。
That's basically just getting good communication going, rather than bullying and threshold tests, is the way we do it.
我们这样做的方式基本上只是进行良好的沟通，而不是欺凌和阈值测试。
And so if you don't get the call, you know, all right--
所以如果你没有接到电话，你知道，好吧——
Yeah, yeah.
是啊，是啊。
And believe it or not, oftentimes they don't call.
不管你信不信，他们通常不会打电话。
They've got other things to do.
他们还有其他事情要做。
Well, today on our radio show we have stories of the fine print.
好吧，今天在我们的广播节目中我们有精美的故事。
We dive into the fine print in places where the fine print really, really matters.
我们会在细则真正非常重要的地方深入探讨细则。
Act one of our show, Chana Joffe-Walt explains how the fine print may be the biggest obstacle to getting rid of our acne.
我们节目的第一幕，Chana Joffe-Walt 解释了细则可能是消除痤疮的最大障碍。
Act two, David Rakoff brings us the fine print that could fix what therapy fails to.
第二幕，大卫·拉科夫（David Rakoff）为我们带来了可以解决治疗失败问题的精美文字。
Act three, Nancy Updike has the story of fine print happening at a place you may never have expected it.
第三幕，南希·厄普代克讲述了发生在你可能从未预料到的地方的故事。
Act four, Susan Burton rereads the fine print that changed her childhood.
第四幕，苏珊·伯顿重读了改变她童年的精美印刷品。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One.
第一幕。
One Pill Two Pill, Red Pill Blue Pill.
一丸二丸，红丸蓝丸。
Let's start today in a place that is swimming in fine print, the insurance business.
今天让我们从一个充满细节的地方开始：保险业。
President Obama said during the health care debates that if we all understood our health care, it would save money.
奥巴马总统在医疗保健辩论中表示，如果我们都了解我们的医疗保健，就会节省金钱。
If there's a blue pill and a red pill, and the blue pill is half the price of the red pill and works just as well, why not pay half price?
如果有蓝色药丸和红色药丸，蓝色药丸的价格是红色药丸的一半，而且效果也一样，为什么不付半价呢？
And the problem with the fine print is that it makes it hard to tell which pill is the red one and which one is the blue one, as Chana Joffe-Walt explains.
正如查纳·乔夫-沃尔特 (Chana Joffe-Walt) 解释的那样，小字印刷的问题在于，很难区分哪一颗药丸是红色的，哪一颗是蓝色的。
Ted Serra is in the middle of a war.
特德·塞拉正处于战争之中。
It's been going on for many years and involves billions of dollars.
它已经持续多年，涉及数十亿美元。
A lot of us are in this war.
我们很多人都在这场战争中。
And like Ted, we don't even know it.
就像特德一样，我们甚至不知道这一点。
He stumbled onto the battlefield because he's got pimples.
他因为长了青春痘而跌跌撞撞地走上了战场。
Pimples and a card.
粉刺和一张卡片。
It is called the Solodyn Patient Access Card.
它被称为 Solodyn 患者访问卡。
What's it look like?
它看起来像什么？
Ted Serra And it looks like a little credit card.
Ted Serra 它看起来像一张小信用卡。
It's white and blue.
它是白色和蓝色的。
The Solodyn Patient Access Card is just the latest weapon in this war.
Solodyn 患者访问卡只是这场战争中的最新武器。
It's an arms race, really, that's been escalating for decades.
这实际上是一场军备竞赛，几十年来一直在不断升级。
There have been moves and counter moves before.
之前已经有过动作和反动作。
This war?
这场战争？
It is a war over drug co-payments.
这是一场关于药品共同支付的战争。
If you don't, say, run an insurance company, you probably hate co-pays.
例如，如果您不经营保险公司，您可能会讨厌自付额。
They are a way to make you pay for your drugs at the pharmacy, even though you're insured.
即使您有保险，它们也是让您在药房支付药物费用的一种方式。
Which seems kind of evil, right?
这看起来有点邪恶，对吧？
But I tracked down an evil insurance VP, Eileen Wood, who actually was pretty personable.
但我找到了一位邪恶的保险副总裁艾琳·伍德（Eileen Wood），她实际上非常有风度。
And she said, no, no, no. Co-pays are an insurer's special little way of yelling at us.
她说，不，不，不。共付额是保险公司对我们大喊大叫的特殊小方式。
There are drugs that cost $1000.
有些药物的价格为 1000 美元。
There are drugs that cost $5.
有些药物的价格是 5 美元。
When you're insured, you don't care.
当你有保险的时候，你就不在乎了。
You don't even know.
你甚至不知道。
So the insurers put a $30 dollar co-pay on one and a $10 co-pay on the other.
因此，保险公司为其中一人支付 30 美元的自付额，为另一人支付 10 美元的自付额。
They're giving you a hint that there is a difference in the drug's total cost.
他们向您暗示药物的总成本存在差异。
And the consumer doesn't see that.
而消费者看不到这一点。
And so we struggle to try to shine the light on that, and get called the bad guy.
因此，我们努力试图揭露这一点，但却被称为坏人。
Yeah, we do.
是的，我们愿意。
Chana Joffe-Walt So co-pays were basically a bad guy's way of doing something good for everyone.
Chana Joffe-Walt 因此，共同支付基本上是坏人为每个人做好事的方式。
That's the way Eileen sees it, except for the bad guy thing.
艾琳就是这么看的，除了坏人之外。
Because if insurers could discourage us from buying expensive drugs, it's not just that they would save money.
因为如果保险公司能够阻止我们购买昂贵的药物，他们不仅仅会省钱。
We would save money.
我们会省钱。
They could charge us less in premiums, which we all want.
他们可以向我们收取更少的保费，这是我们都希望的。
By the 1990s, insurance companies had it down.
到了 20 世纪 90 年代，保险公司的情况有所下降。
Co-pays were working really well.
共同支付的效果非常好。
The insurers felt like they were winning the war, which was pretty gratifying to people like Eileen Wood.
保险公司感觉他们正在赢得这场战争，这对像艾琳·伍德这样的人来说非常令人欣慰。
She'd watched for years as drug companies came out with slightly tweaked versions of existing generics and sold them for 10 times the cost.
多年来，她一直看着制药公司推出对现有仿制药稍作调整的版本，并以 10 倍的价格出售。
Let's look at Kapidex.
我们来看看卡皮克斯。
Oh, that's this one.
哦，就是这个。
I love this one.
我喜欢这个。
That's the Minocin, but this company, this is--
那是米诺辛，但这家公司是——
Eileen works in a tidy office park in Albany, New York, for an insurance company called Capital Districts Physicians Health Plan, CDPHP.
艾琳在纽约州奥尔巴尼一个整洁的办公园区为一家名为首都地区医生健康计划 (CDPHP) 的保险公司工作。
And in her file cabinets, she's got plastic, zipped up pouches of her least favorite brand name drugs.
在她的文件柜里，有一些带拉链的塑料袋，里面装着她最不喜欢的品牌药物。
She collects them.
她收集它们。
Minocin, that one she's talking about, there's a generic version that costs about $50 a month.
她所说的米诺辛（Minocin）有一个通用版本，每月费用约为 50 美元。
Minocin PAC, which Eileen is now waiving in my face, is a newer brand name drug.
米诺辛 PAC，艾琳现在在我面前放弃了，是一种较新的品牌药物。
It costs $668.
售价 668 美元。
So what's different?
那么有什么不同呢？
It has a couple of little extra items that are not prescription items in there.
它有一些额外的小物品，不是处方物品。
It has this lovely calming wipe so that when your skin is all red, and you can pat this on.
它有一个可爱的镇静湿巾，所以当你的皮肤全红时，你可以拍拍它。
And it's supposed to bring the redness down.
它应该可以减少发红。
It's not a prescription item.
它不是处方药。
Calming serum in a calming mask.
镇静面膜中的镇静精华液。
It's basically stuff you can buy over the counter.
基本上都是可以在柜台购买的东西。
But behind the scenes, it's--
但在幕后，却是——
And the only difference in this is that it has wipes?
唯一的区别是它有湿巾？
It has these.
它有这些。
That's it.
就是这样。
That's the only difference.
这是唯一的区别。
You could probably buy them for $10.
你可能可以花 10 美元购买它们。
So those three products are added to the Minocin PAC, and I guess that must be what costs the extra $600.
因此，这三种产品被添加到 Minocin PAC 中，我想这一定是额外花费 600 美元的原因。
I'm not sure.
我不知道。
It's very slick.
它非常光滑。
Eileen has dozens of stories like this that do seem ridiculous.
艾琳有几十个这样的故事，看起来确实很荒谬。
An acne medication that comes with green tea swabs?
绿茶棉签附带的痤疮药物？
Kind of like a prescription for Viagra that comes with a Hustler magazine that costs an extra $500.
有点像伟哥的处方，附有一本 Hustler 杂志，需要额外花费 500 美元。
Now, not all brand names are like this.
现在，并不是所有的品牌名称都是这样的。
There are brands that are better than existing generic options, that are the only thing that work for some people.
有些品牌比现有的通用选择更好，这是唯一对某些人有用的东西。
And with co-pays, you can still get the brands.
通过共同支付，您仍然可以获得品牌。
It's just the more expensive choice.
这只是更昂贵的选择。
You want the green tea swabs, you pay $40 of the $668 for it.
如果你想要绿茶棉签，你需要支付 668 美元中的 40 美元。
If you just want Minocin generic, you pay $10 of the $50 dollars.
如果您只想要米诺辛仿制药，您只需支付 50 美元中的 10 美元。
The co-pay strategy worked so well that in 2003, generics passed the 50% mark, meaning more than 50% of the drugs people went and picked up from pharmacies were generics.
共同支付策略非常有效，以至于 2003 年，仿制药超过了 50% 大关，这意味着人们从药房购买的药物中有 50% 以上是仿制药。
It was probably around then that it happened.
事情大概就是在那个时候发生的。
The drug companies-- they noticed.
制药公司——他们注意到了。
People like Sally Beatty at Pfizer.
像辉瑞公司的莎莉·比蒂这样的人。
That's the company that makes, among other things, the world's most popular drug, Lipitor.
该公司生产世界上最受欢迎的药物立普妥等产品。
Sally?
莎莉？
Not a fan of co-pays.
不喜欢共同支付。
Now, the issue with that is that we want treatment decisions to be made based on what the physician feels is medically best for the patient, not just the cost to the patient, or what another player may decide is in their interest.
现在的问题是，我们希望根据医生认为对患者而言最有利的治疗方案来做出治疗决策，而不仅仅是患者的成本，或者其他玩家可能做出的符合他们利益的决定。
Another player like Eileen Wood and her insurance industry buddies with their co-pays that were hurting the drug companies.
另一位像艾琳·伍德（Eileen Wood）这样的玩家和她的保险业伙伴，他们的共同支付损害了制药公司的利益。
Lipitor was facing major competition from generics.
立普妥面临着仿制药的激烈竞争。
In July 2007, sales were down 13%.
2007年7月，销售额下降了13%。
Now, there is no approved generic for Lipitor.
目前，立普妥尚无获批仿制药。
Sally Beatty, from Pfizer, will say this three times in 15 minutes.
来自辉瑞公司的 Sally Beatty 在 15 分钟内会说三遍。
And what that means is that there is no drug that is chemically identical to Lipitor.
这意味着没有任何药物的化学性质与立普妥相同。
What there are are generic drugs in the same class of cholesterol reducing drugs.
同类降胆固醇药物中有仿制药。
That's what Lipitor does, reduce cholesterol.
这就是立普妥的作用，降低胆固醇。
And those generics are effective for most people.
这些仿制药对大多数人来说都是有效的。
But there are some people who respond better to Lipitor.
但有些人对立普妥的反应更好。
And for some of those patients, a $40 co-pay stops them from getting the medication.
对于其中一些患者来说，40 美元的自付费用使他们无法获得药物。
And so, in 2007, the pharmaceutical industry marshaled its counter-attack.
于是，2007年，医药行业发起了反击。
That mysterious card you heard at the beginning of the story, their central weapon.
你在故事开始时听到的那张神秘卡片是他们的核心武器。
Coupons.
优惠券。
A whole bunch of coupons.
一大堆优惠券。
OK, so I've always had a little bit of acne.
好吧，所以我总是有一点痤疮。
Enter Ted Serra, the paralegal with the card and the pimples-- pimples that, just a few months ago, were in need of drugs.
特德·塞拉 (Ted Serra) 登场，他是一名律师助理，拿着卡片和丘疹——就在几个月前，这些丘疹还需要药物。
Yeah, it sort of comes and goes.
是的，它来来去去。
And generally, when I'm going through more periods of stress either at work or just as a course of life, it sort of gets worse.
一般来说，当我在工作中或生活中经历更多的压力时，情况会变得更糟。
Ted walked into the doctor's office.
特德走进医生的办公室。
She poked at him with gloved hands and told him, "OK, we're going to put you on a couple topical creams and some antibiotics, a drug called Solodyn." Ted was tentative, but he mentioned he'd been on a generic before, worked pretty well, called Minocycline.
她戴着手套的手戳了戳他，告诉他：“好吧，我们会给你涂一些外用药膏和一些抗生素，一种叫做 Solodyn 的药物。”泰德犹豫不决，但他提到他以前服用过一种名为米诺环素的仿制药，效果很好。
And the doc said, "Yeah, that's great.
医生说：“是的，那太好了。
Basically that's the same as Solodyn, but Solodyn is time released.
基本上与 Solodyn 相同，但 Solodyn 是时间释放的。
That means, as opposed to Minocycline, which you have to remember to take in the morning and in the evening, you only have to take Solodyn once a day."
这意味着，与您必须记住在早上和晚上服用的米诺环素不同，您只需每天服用一次 Solodyn。”
It didn't really sound that big of a deal to me, but it is, I guess to anyone, slightly easier to take one pill per day instead of two.
对我来说，这听起来没什么大不了的，但我想对任何人来说，每天服用一粒药丸比每天服用两粒丸要容易一些。
So I went with it.
所以我就同意了。
And I asked in terms of the cost of it just to pay the extra money to take it once a day, if that was going to be a big difference, it wouldn't really be something I'd be interested in.
我问的是它的费用只是支付额外的钱每天服用一次，如果这会产生很大的差异，那我就不会真正感兴趣。
And then she presented this card.
然后她递出了这张卡片。
You remember the card.
你记得那张卡。
Ted Serra It is called the Solodyn Patient Access Card.
Ted Serra 它被称为 Solodyn 患者访问卡。
It's actually called Solo-dine, not Solo-din.
它实际上被称为 Solo-dine，而不是 Solo-din。
Who knows where they come up with these names.
谁知道他们从哪里想出这些名字的。
The point is, this is the moment-- the moment that the drug makers' weapon makes its way into the hands of its oblivious soldier, Ted.
关键是，这就是这一刻——制药商的武器落入其无知的士兵特德手中的那一刻。
Ted was going to get a deal.
特德打算达成协议。
The doctor explained that this card, it's a coupon.
医生解释说，这张卡，是优惠券。
Give it to the pharmacist and it should make your co-pay very affordable, which is exactly what happened.
把它交给药剂师，它应该会让你的自付费用变得非常实惠，这正是发生的事情。
Without the card, Ted's co-pay would have been $154.28.
如果没有这张卡，Ted 的共付额将为 154.28 美元。
But when Ted got to the pharmacy, he presented his card.
但当特德到达药房时，他出示了他的卡。
They went to ring it up at the register, and when it came up, the price was $10.
他们去收银台打了电话，结果显示价格是10美元。
That's pretty good for drugs.
这对毒品来说是非常好的。
Ted Serra Yeah, it was great.
特德·塞拉 是的，太棒了。
Solodyn access achieved.
已实现 Solodyn 访问。
Ted's insurance company was then charged $655 a month for Ted's once a day Solodyn.
然后，Ted 的保险公司每月为 Ted 每天一次的 Solodyn 收取 655 美元的费用。
For reasons too complicated to go into here, they only paid $514.
由于原因太复杂，无法在此一一阐述，他们只支付了 514 美元。
Minocycline, the one that you have to take twice a day, costs $109 a month total.
米诺环素是一种每天必须服用两次的药物，每月总共花费 109 美元。
$514.
514 美元。
$109.
109 美元。
Ted never saw those numbers.
特德从未见过这些数字。
So you think, OK, well, Ted used the coupon because he didn't really know any better.
所以你想，好吧，好吧，特德使用了优惠券，因为他真的不知道更多。
He thought he was getting a deal.
他以为他达成了协议。
Who wouldn't go for that, right?
谁不会这么做，对吧？
But the doctor-- what was up with the doctor handing out these cards?
但是医生——医生发放这些卡片是怎么回事？
Luckily, Dr. Elena Allbritton was generous enough to answer some questions.
幸运的是，埃琳娜·奥尔布里顿博士很慷慨地回答了一些问题。
Do you know the price difference between those two drugs?
你知道这两种药的价格差异吗？
I don't.
我不知道。
Chana Joffe-Walt Like Ted and the majority of Americans, Dr. Allbritton has no idea what drugs actually cost, not because she's lazy, but because these numbers are really hard to find out.
与泰德和大多数美国人一样，奥尔布里顿医生也不知道药物的实际花费是多少，不是因为她懒惰，而是因为这些数字真的很难找出。
The insurance companies, they all individually negotiate with drug companies, and they each pay a slightly different amount.
保险公司，他们都是单独和制药公司协商，各自赔付的金额略有不同。
So no, Dr. Allbritton is not thinking about prices when prescribing.
所以不，奥尔布里顿医生在开处方时并没有考虑价格。
She's thinking, what is the best thing available for this patient?
她在想，对这个病人来说最好的办法是什么？
Solodyn is better.
索洛丁更好一些。
It's easier to take a pill once a day, instead of twice.
每天服用一次药丸比服用两次更容易。
It's easier for Dr. Allbritton to get the dosage just right.
奥尔布里顿医生更容易获得正确的剂量。
And Dr. Allbritton wants her patients to have the best.
奥尔布里顿医生希望她的患者得到最好的治疗。
I think if I can get a discount for most patients, I think it's great, because the cost of medications can be very high.
我认为如果我能为大多数患者提供折扣，我认为这很好，因为药物费用可能非常高。
It's like a free gift to give.
这就像一份免费的礼物。
Dr. Allbritton just wants it to be easy for patients to access the drugs she thinks they need.
奥尔布里顿博士只是希望患者能够轻松获得她认为他们需要的药物。
Truthfully, she doesn't really want to keep track of all the prices.
说实话，她并不想记录所有的价格。
That's not her job.
那不是她的工作。
I just don't think that it's realistic to have that responsibility fall on the physician.
我只是认为让医生承担这个责任是不现实的。
I mean, then are you going to start saying, "Well, should I really do this biopsy?
我的意思是，那么你会开始说：“好吧，我真的应该做活检吗？
Because I'm not really sure that it's really that significant of a difference in that mole.
因为我不太确定那颗痣的差异是否真的那么重要。
And it might cost you $1200 in the end if this doesn't get covered." I mean, you don't want to start thinking about price tags with everything.
如果不承保，您最终可能会损失 1200 美元。”我的意思是，你不想开始考虑所有东西的价格标签。
Actually, when people talk about how to reform health care in our country, this is one of the things they talk about changing.
事实上，当人们谈论如何改革我国的医疗保健时，这就是他们谈论的改变之一。
That doctors should know the prices of things, and at least play some role in deciding whether a time release version of a pill is worth $400 more to everyone.
医生应该了解药品的价格，并且至少在决定缓释版药物是否对每个人来说都值 400 美元以上方面发挥一定作用。
The maker of Solodyn is Medicis.
Solodyn 的制造商是 Medicis。
They wouldn't talk to me.
他们不肯跟我说话。
By the way, in the months since Ted started taking Solodyn, a generic version has come out.
顺便说一句，自 Ted 开始服用 Solodyn 的几个月以来，通用版本已经问世。
And the war has escalated.
并且战争已经升级。
Another tactical maneuver-- drug makers used to just give cards to doctors.
另一种策略是制药商过去只给医生发卡片。
Now they distribute them to patients too.
现在他们也将它们分发给患者。
They're in women's magazines.
她们出现在女性杂志上。
They're online.
他们在线。
They're at the drug store counter.
他们在药店柜台。
They're everywhere, except in Massachusetts where they're illegal.
它们无处不在，除了在马萨诸塞州，它们是非法的。
And we pick them up.
我们把它们捡起来。
We see a deal.
我们看到了一笔交易。
Like Ted, we like deals.
像特德一样，我们喜欢优惠。
And Eileen Wood, at the insurance company, she gets that.
保险公司的艾琳·伍德（Eileen Wood）明白这一点。
I can't argue with that argument, except to say there is a consequence for that.
我无法反驳这个论点，只能说这是有后果的。
Because what will you have to do if everybody gets the more expensive drug?
因为如果每个人都得到更昂贵的药物，你该怎么办？
We'd have to raise premiums.
我们必须提高保费。
I mean, I think there's no question about that.
我的意思是，我认为这是毫无疑问的。
It would have an impact on him, and everybody that sits next to him.
这会对他以及坐在他旁边的每个人产生影响。
At work.
在上班。
Eileen Wood At work, and their families, and so forth.
艾琳·伍德（Eileen Wood）在工作中，以及他们的家人，等等。
Yes.
是的。
I don't want to pay more in premiums next year, and I don't want everyone around me to have to either.
我不想明年支付更多的保费，我也不希望我周围的每个人都必须支付更多的保费。
Do you think your co-workers are going to hear this and go, "Well, thanks a lot, Ted.
你认为你的同事会听到这个并说：“好吧，非常感谢，特德。
You and your fancy acne medicine."
你和你的奇特的痤疮药。”
Probably.
大概。
But there I was sitting in dermatologist's office, and I have no idea.
但我坐在皮肤科医生的办公室里，我不知道。
Again, I had never heard of this medicine.
再说一遍，我从来没有听说过这种药。
I had no idea how much it cost.
我不知道要花多少钱。
I know it's brand name.
我知道这是品牌名称。
But I certainly never would've dreamed that it would have cost $655 sticker price.
但我绝对不会想到它的标价会是 655 美元。
Looking at this war laid out like this, it's a view of a health care system that is comprised of enormous insurance companies throwing their weight around, just as enormous drug companies striking back, and then all these idiots in the middle-- us.
看看这场战争是这样展开的，这是一个由巨大的保险公司组成的医疗保健系统，就像巨大的制药公司反击一样，然后所有这些白痴在中间——我们。
You, me, and our doctors.
你、我和我们的医生。
Pesky interlopers who don't even know the price of the pills we're buying.
讨厌的闯入者甚至不知道我们购买的药丸的价格。
President Obama wants us to choose the blue pill and not the red pill, because the blue is just as effective but half the price.
奥巴马总统希望我们选择蓝色药丸而不是红色药丸，因为蓝色药丸同样有效，但价格只有一半。
But with these cards, which one is the blue one?
但是这些卡片中，哪一张是蓝色的呢？
We have no idea.
我们不知道。
Chana Joffe-Walt is a member of the Planet Money team.
Chana Joffe-Walt 是 Planet Money 团队的成员。
That story first aired in 2009.
这个故事于 2009 年首次播出。
Since then, the Solodyn Patient Access Card has been discontinued.
从那时起，Solodyn 患者访问卡已停止使用。
It's now part of a different program, the Medicis MediSAVE Program, which is more of a package deal that allows you to get a few other drugs cheaper as well.
它现在是另一个计划 Medicis MediSAVE 计划的一部分，该计划更像是一揽子交易，可以让您以更便宜的价格获得一些其他药物。
We've arrived at act two of our show.
我们已经到了演出的第二幕了。
Act Two, Occupancy May Be Revoked Without Notice.
第二幕，入住可能会被撤销，恕不另行通知。
This next bit of fine print was brought to us by David Rakoff.
下一个小字是由 David Rakoff 带给我们的。
The following shall constitute the binding agreement between Mr. Gregory Stolzenberg of Yonkers, New York, hereafter known as Owner, and his mother, Mrs. Barbara Stolzenberg, of Tenafly, New Jersey, hereafter known as Mother, in regards to the third floor bedroom of number 41 Old Alewives Lane, Yonkers, New York.
以下内容构成纽约州扬克斯市的 Gregory Stolzenberg 先生（以下称为业主）和他的母亲、新泽西州特纳夫莱市的 Barbara Stolzenberg 女士（以下称为母亲）之间关于纽约州扬克斯市 Old Alewives Lane 41 号三楼卧室的具有约束力的协议。
One.
一。
Upon completion of chemotherapy and surgery at the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, Mother shall take occupancy for an as yet undetermined period of time, hereafter known as convalescent period, not to exceed four weeks in duration.
在纪念斯隆-凯特琳癌症中心完成化疗和手术后，母亲应入住一段尚未确定的时间，以下称为恢复期，持续时间不超过四个星期。
Two.
二。
A front door key will be left underneath the stone frog near the rhododendron.
前门钥匙将留在杜鹃花附近的石蛙下方。
Mother agrees to return said key to its hiding place, for once.
母亲同意将钥匙归还给它的藏身之处，这一次。
Three.
三。
Mother acknowledges herewith that she is aware that, as a converted attic, the third floor and its bedroom are accessible by a retractable ladder.
母亲在此承认，她知道，作为一个改建的阁楼，三楼及其卧室可以通过可伸缩的梯子到达。
Subparagraph one.
第一项。
Mother hereby waives any and all recourse to the Americans with Disabilities Act and to any liability on Owner's part in the event of any injury.
母亲特此放弃对《美国残疾人法案》的任何追索权，以及在发生任何伤害时业主的任何责任。
Subparagraph two.
第二款.
Included in Mother's accommodation, she shall be given 24-hour access to the bathroom on the second floor.
包括在母亲的住宿内，她可以 24 小时使用二楼的浴室。
Four.
四。
Per Mother's previous request, she shall occupy the lower bunk of the third floor bedroom, while Owner's eight-year-old son, Robby Stozenberg, shall occupy the top bunk.
根据母亲之前的要求，她应占据三楼卧室的下铺，而业主八岁的儿子 Robby Stozenberg 则应占据上铺。
Five.
五。
Mother may take breakfast and supper with the family-- please see attached appendix detailing the meal plan-- and agrees that upon finishing eating, she will, quote, "make herself scarce." As has been previously and frequently discussed, quote, "sitting quietly with a magazine and not saying a word, even if you begged me to say something," unquote, differs wholly in spirit, letter, and intention from making oneself scarce.
母亲可以与家人一起吃早餐和晚餐——请参阅随附的详细膳食计划的附录——并同意在吃完饭后，她会“让自己变得稀缺”。正如之前经常讨论的那样，引用“安静地坐在一本杂志上，一言不发，即使你求我说点什么”，不引用，在精神、文字和意图上与让自己变得稀缺完全不同。
Mother further agrees not to do, quote, "that thing with the chewing and the breathing."
母亲进一步同意不做“咀嚼和呼吸的事情”。
Subparagraph one.
第一项。
Further to the matter of, quote, "making oneself scarce," unquote-- and it is herein that this subparagraph not be construed as belaboring a matter to the point of obsession-- but Mother further concedes herein that both Owner and his wife have been medically assessed to be of excellent to above average hearing.
进一步说，引用“让自己变得稀缺”，不引用——在本文中，本项不应被解释为对一个问题进行过度的阐述——但母亲在此进一步承认，所有者和他的妻子都经过医学评估，听力极佳，高于平均水平。
And as such, any and all comments, even though spoken at a whisper, are perfectly audible.
因此，任何和所有评论，即使是小声说出，也完全可以听到。
Further, Owner's wife, as a Mexican-born Catholic, and therefore, not possessed of a formal Yiddish education, is well aware that the word "kurveh" has entered common English usage to mean "whore." And the use of said word, even when muttered, is heard and emphatically not appreciated.
此外，业主的妻子是墨西哥出生的天主教徒，因此没有受过正式的意第绪语教育，她很清楚“kurveh”一词已进入英语的常见用法，意思是“妓女”。而且，即使是在小声嘀咕的时候，这个词的使用也会被听到，并且不会被赞赏。
Six.
六。
Mother may make daily use of the public rooms on the main floor, such as the living room, from 11:00 AM to 3:00 PM, or until Robby Stolzenberg returns home from school, whichever happens sooner, at which time, Mother must relinquish the television remote and, quote, "make herself scarce," unquote.
母亲可以每天从上午 11:00 到下午 3:00 使用主层的公共房间，例如客厅，或者直到罗比·斯托尔岑伯格 (Robby Stolzenberg) 放学回家（以较早者为准），此时，母亲必须放弃电视遥控器，并引用“让自己变得稀缺”（不引用）。
See paragraph five.
参见第五段。
Mother may receive visitors, no more than two a day, although under no circumstances may Mother receiver her daughter, the omniscient and perfect-- it is acknowledged that both adjectives are being employed ironically-- Mrs. Marla Stolzenberg-Burns of Ho-Ho-Kus, New Jersey, for reasons that have been previously and frequently discussed.
母亲可以接待访客，每天不超过两个，但在任何情况下，母亲都不能接待她的女儿，全知的、完美的——众所周知，这两个形容词的使用都具有讽刺意味——来自新泽西州霍霍库斯的玛拉·斯托尔岑伯格-伯恩斯夫人，原因之前已经经常讨论过。
If Mrs. Stolzenberg-Burns' eagerness to see her mother is deemed as so overwhelming, then perhaps the entire location of the convalescent period can be reassessed.
如果斯托尔岑伯格-伯恩斯夫人想见母亲的渴望被认为是压倒性的，那么也许可以重新评估整个康复期的地点。
Just say the word.
只要说一句话。
Go on.
继续。
Say it.
说吧。
Say it.
说吧。
Say it.
说吧。
Subparagraph one.
第一项。
Mention is made hereby that, in the matter of the husband of the omniscient and perfect Mrs. Marla Stolzenberg-Burns-- the Owner's brother-in-law, Dr. Howard Burns of Ho-Ho-Kus, New Jersey-- Mother further agrees that there is a material difference between a dermatologist and God Almighty.
特此提及，在全知完美的玛拉·斯托尔森伯格·伯恩斯夫人（业主的妹夫、新泽西州霍霍库斯的霍华德·伯恩斯医生）的丈夫问题上，母亲进一步同意皮肤科医生和全能上帝之间存在着本质上的区别。
And that there are, indeed, many things that the former does not know, regardless of how much he pulls down annually.
确实，有很多事情是前者不知道的，不管他每年拉下多少东西。
Seven.
七。
All efforts have been made herein to draft an impartial agreement with malice and favor towards none.
我们已尽一切努力起草一份公正的协议，不存在任何恶意和偏袒。
This document is to serve as a mutual protection to both parties, and the full execution of which, it is hoped, will avert any future difficulties that might in any way resemble events of Thanksgiving 2005, 2006, 2007, or August 2008, at the beach.
该文件旨在为双方提供相互保护，希望该文件的全面执行能够避免未来出现任何类似于 2005 年、2006 年、2007 年或 2008 年 8 月感恩节海滩事件的困难。
David Rakoff is the author of several books, including his most recent, Half Empty .
大卫·拉考夫 (David Rakoff) 是多本书的作者，其中包括他最近的著作《半空》(Half Empty)。
Coming up, what's fine print in Farsi?
接下来，波斯语的细则是什么？
That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
一分钟后，芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台将继续我们的节目。
It's This American Life .
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's show, Fine Print.
今天的节目，精美印刷。
You know, usually most of us try to just skip the fine print.
你知道，通常我们大多数人都会尝试跳过细则。
We don't read the rental car agreements, or the software license end-user agreements.
我们不会阅读租车协议或软件许可最终用户协议。
We just click, I agree.
我们只是点击一下，我同意。
Today on our show, we have stories where the fine print has real consequences.
今天在我们的节目中，我们有一些故事，其中的细则会产生真正的后果。
We have arrived at act three of our show.
我们已经到了演出的第三幕了。
A confession is not supposed to have any fine print.
认罪书不应该有任何细则。
It's supposed to state, "This is what happened.
它应该说：“这就是发生的事情。
This is what I did," all very straightforward.
这就是我所做的，”一切都非常简单。
But of course all kinds of confessions come with asterisks included.
当然，所有类型的坦白都带有星号。
This story that you're about to hear is about a confession given in Iran.
你即将听到的这个故事是关于在伊朗进行的一次认罪。
And just to review, two years ago, if you remember, there were massive protests in Iran following a disputed election that returned Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to power for a second term.
回顾一下，两年前，如果你还记得的话，伊朗在一场有争议的选举后爆发了大规模抗议活动，选举使内贾德重新掌权并连任。
And many Iranians believed that the election was rigged and that a more moderate politician had actually won.
许多伊朗人认为选举受到了操纵，实际上是一位更为温和的政治家获胜了。
This story actually starts before all that, before Ahmadinejad, in 2004, a time when moderate reformists still were leading the government in Iran, but not for very long.
这个故事实际上开始于这一切之前，即艾哈迈迪内贾德之前的2004年，当时温和的改革派仍然领导着伊朗政府，但时间并不长。
Nancy Updike tells what happened.
南希·厄普代克讲述了发生的事情。
At 30 years old, Omid Memarian, a journalist in Iran, went where he wanted, talked to whomever he felt like talking to-- reformists, hardliners, foreigners, the vice president of the World Bank.
30 岁的伊朗记者奥米德·梅马里安 (Omid Memarian) 可以去任何他想去的地方，与任何他想交谈的人交谈——改革派、强硬派、外国人、世界银行副行长。
Why not?
为什么不呢？
Political debate in Iran was robust.
伊朗的政治辩论很激烈。
Omid's view was, he lived in a country that had problems, and he was a critic of those problems.
奥米德的观点是，他生活在一个有问题的国家，他是这些问题的批评者。
But it also had a constitution, elections, some independent newspapers.
但它也有宪法、选举和一些独立报纸。
Iran wasn't North Korea.
伊朗不是朝鲜。
It wasn't Myanmar.
那不是缅甸。
In October of 2004, Omid was arrested at his office by government men in plain clothes.
2004 年 10 月，奥米德在办公室被便衣政府人员逮捕。
Didn't have badges.
没有徽章。
Did have guns.
确实有枪。
And within a few hours, Omid was sitting in an interrogation room at a prison whose name and location he didn't know.
几个小时后，奥米德坐在一所监狱的审讯室里，他不知道监狱的名字和位置。
After a while, a man walked in.
过了一会儿，一个男人走了进来。
Like 55 years old, with a very short beard, and kind of calm.
55岁左右，胡子很短，性格沉稳。
And I felt that this guy might be a nice guy.
我觉得这个人可能是个好人。
But when I said hi to this guy, then he just started beating me.
但当我向这个家伙打招呼时，他就开始打我。
And I was sitting next to the wall on a chair.
我坐在靠墙的椅子上。
And the guy took my head and was hitting my head to the wall.
那家伙抓住我的头，把我的头撞到墙上。
And he was doing that, and at one point I remember the guy was asking me if I ever traveled to the US.
他正在这样做，我记得有一次，那个人问我是否去过美国。
In 2004, I was invited to come here to the US and give a speech.
2004年，我应邀来美国演讲。
So I got my visa.
所以我拿到了签证。
I went to Frankfurt airport, and then somebody called my name.
我去了法兰克福机场，然后有人叫我的名字。
So they told me that my name was on the No-Fly List.
所以他们告诉我，我的名字在禁飞名单上。
At least, I think Osama bin Laden probably is on the top.
至少，我认为奥萨马·本·拉登可能位居榜首。
So I took the first flight, and I went back home.
于是我就搭上了第一班飞机，然后就回家了。
So the interrogator was asking me what happened in Washington, DC.
审讯者问我华盛顿特区发生了什么事。
And I said, "Hi.
我说：“嗨。
I didn't go there.
我没有去那里。
I was on the No-Fly List, probably you guys are there.
我在禁飞名单上，也许你们也在那里。
We are all on that list." And the guy said, "No. We have tapes of those meetings that you had in Washington, DC.
我们都在那个名单上。”那个人说：“不。我们有你在华盛顿特区举行的那些会议的录音。
We have all the documents." And I said, "Dude, I have not been there.
我们有所有文件。”我说：“伙计，我没去过那里。
All right?
好吧？
You should look at my passport.
你应该看看我的护照。
It doesn't show anything.
它没有显示任何东西。
There is no stamp on my passport." At that moment, I learned that they really, in many cases, they bluff.
我的护照上没有盖章。”那一刻我才知道，他们很多时候确实是在虚张声势。
They just bluff.
他们只是虚张声势。
And once you figured out that part of what they were doing was bluffing, was that a relief?
一旦你发现他们所做的部分是在虚张声势，你会松一口气吗？
Or was that more terrifying?
或者说这更可怕？
I mean, did that make you feel like, "I have no idea what to do?"
我的意思是，这是否让你感觉“我不知道该怎么办？”
When they bluffed at the beginning, I thought, "Oh, there is nothing here." But the thing was, when you have to talk about something that never happened, it was much harder than to talk about something that happened.
当他们一开始虚张声势时，我想：“哦，这里什么都没有。”但问题是，当你不得不谈论从未发生过的事情时，这比谈论发生过的事情要困难得多。
Because when nothing was there, it was really hard to imagine that kind of incident.
因为当什么都没有的时候，真的很难想象那种事情。
I mean, this guy was beating me.
我的意思是，这家伙打了我。
And at one point I was on the floor.
有一次我躺在地板上。
He was hitting my stomach with his leg.
他用腿打我的肚子。
At one point, in that case, I threw up.
有一次，在那种情况下，我吐了。
I just couldn't accept that, because I never went to the US.
我只是无法接受这一点，因为我从未去过美国。
Forced confessions are not a new phenomenon, more like eternal.
强迫认罪并不是什么新现象，更像是永恒的现象。
And Omid got the standard treatment, beatings and solitary.
奥米德受到了标准的待遇：殴打和单独监禁。
But every government that forces confessions has its own variation on the process, its own way of building up its library of confessions.
但每个强迫认罪的政府在程序上都有自己的变化，都有自己建立认罪库的方式。
They gave me a kind of notebook and a pen, and asked me to start writing everything you have done over the past seven years.
他们给了我一个笔记本和一支笔，让我开始写下你在过去七年里所做的一切。
So I thought, "That's fine.
所以我想：“那好吧。
I can write everything.
我什么都可以写。
I don't have any secret, and there's nothing to be worried about."
我没有任何秘密，也没有什么可担心的。”
So he was there.
所以他就在那里。
I was sitting on a chair, and I started writing.
我坐在椅子上，开始写作。
There was a table there too.
那里也有一张桌子。
And every five minutes, he asked me to see my writing.
每隔五分钟，他就会请我看我写的东西。
Every five minutes.
每五分钟一次。
And then when he saw what I was writing, he screamed at me and said, "This is not what I want.
然后当他看到我写的东西时，他对我尖叫并说：“这不是我想要的。
This not what I want from you.
这不是我想要你做的。
You should tell me the truth." And I said, "This is the truth." And he said, "No. You're hiding truth.
你应该告诉我真相。”我说：“这是事实。”他说：“不。你隐瞒了真相。
Tell me what happened behind the doors."
告诉我门后发生了什么。”
I had no idea what he wanted me to write for them.
我不知道他要我为他们写什么。
I had no idea, because I said in many cases, that this is exactly what happened.
我不知道，因为我在很多情况下说过，这正是发生的事情。
This is exactly the people I met.
这正是我遇到的人。
Actually, I wrote a biography of myself for them.
事实上，我为他们写了一本我自己的传记。
It was a very honest biography.
这是一本非常诚实的传记。
I even talked about things I never talked to my mom, or dad, or my friends.
我什至谈论了我从未与妈妈、爸爸或朋友谈论过的事情。
They asked about my girlfriends.
他们询问了我女朋友的情况。
In Iran, you cannot have a girlfriend when you are not married.
在伊朗，未婚是不能有女朋友的。
And the guy asked me to confess about my sexual relationship.
那家伙让我承认我的性关系。
"Tell me how you started.
“告诉我你是怎么开始的。
Did you use condom?
你用过避孕套吗？
Did you use porn?
你用过色情片吗？
Did you watch porn?" I start crying.
你看过色情片吗？”我开始哭泣。
I begged him.
我求他。
I begged him, please, do not ask that.
我求他，求求你，不要问这个。
Please do not ask that.
请不要问这个。
I cannot do that.
我不能那样做。
And I was like, oh my God, where are you going from here?
我当时想，天啊，你要从这里去哪里？
And he forced me to write that.
他强迫我写那个。
They told me all the time, you know, you're going to stay here for six months, a year, two years.
他们一直告诉我，你知道，你要在这里呆六个月、一年、两年。
You're not going to go home.
你不会回家的。
Forget it.
忘了它。
And I was so devastated.
我非常沮丧。
I felt so hopeless.
我感到非常绝望。
And I said, "God, please help me.
我说：“神啊，请帮助我。
These people are doing this with me with your name, reading Koran, praying five times a day." The guy was beating me, and sometimes stopped beating me to pray on time.
这些人以你的名字和我一起做这件事，阅读《古兰经》，每天祈祷五次。”那家伙经常打我，有时还会停止打我以准时祈祷。
And at one point in the thing, I remember once I watched a movie-- its name is Irreversible .
在这件事中，我记得曾经看过一部电影——它的名字是《不可逆转》。
I think it was in my mind all the time.
我想它一直在我的脑海里。
There's a point in everybody's life that your life separates to before that event, and after that.
每个人的生活中都会有一个点，在该事件发生之前和之后，你的生活会有所不同。
So for me, I knew that there's a point that I cannot take more pressure.
所以对我来说，我知道有一点我不能承受更多的压力。
I knew people who stayed for a long time in prison, and they'd never be able to come back to their normal life.
我认识一些在监狱里待了很长时间的人，他们永远无法恢复正常生活。
They never become normal persons.
他们永远不会成为正常人。
They never recovered.
他们再也没有康复。
Omid Memarian They never recovered.
奥米德·梅玛丽安 他们再也没有康复。
And I knew those people.
我认识那些人。
I talked to those people.
我和那些人交谈过。
I didn't want to be those people at the age of 30.
我不想在30岁时成为那些人。
And at one point, when the pressure was so high, I thought I was entering to the irreversible part.
有一次，当压力如此之大时，我以为我正在进入不可逆转的阶段。
I said, "OK.
我说：“好吧。
What do you want me to write for you?" And they said, "So, these are the names.
你要我给你写什么？”他们说：“所以，这些就是名字。
These are the topics." I drafted my story.
这些就是主题。”我起草了我的故事。
It was the only unpaid story I have written in my life.
这是我一生中唯一写过的无报酬故事。
I'm always paid.
我总是得到报酬。
But anyways--
但无论如何——
The only unpaid story you've ever written in your life was your false confession?
你一生中写过的唯一无报酬的故事就是你的虚假告白？
Yes.
是的。
I drafted my story.
我起草了我的故事。
I gave it to my interrogator.
我把它交给了审讯者。
And then, he was like my editor.
然后，他就像我的编辑。
He changed some of the names, and he just changed the order.
他改变了一些名字，只是改变了顺序。
And then, he gave me a few pages' analysis.
然后他给了我几页的分析。
And I had to include those approaches, those lines, in my confessions.
我必须在我的忏悔中包含这些方法、那些台词。
He's literally-- your interrogator is literally writing on your draft.
他实际上——你的审讯员实际上正在你的草稿上写字。
He's making notes in the margins, and crossing things out, and adding things like an editor?
他像编辑一样在页边空白处做笔记，划掉一些东西，然后添加一些东西？
Exactly like that.
正是这样。
He gave me directions.
他给了我指示。
For example, I said I wrote for this newspaper or that newspaper.
比如我说我给这个报纸或者那个报纸写文章。
I went to these countries.
我去了这些国家。
I met these people.
我遇见了这些人。
So in their version was, with the suggestion of that politician, I went to this country.
所以在他们的版本中，根据那位政客的建议，我去了这个国家。
And I was a part of a plan.
我是计划的一部分。
It was a big plan.
这是一个伟大的计划。
And I had to say that I intentionally, and sometimes unintentionally, have cooperated with them through my writings, through my blog, through my travels, through my talks, and that kind of things.
我不得不说，我有意地，有时无意地，通过我的写作、通过我的博客、通过我的旅行、通过我的演讲等等与他们合作。
Were there specific words he wanted you to use?
他希望你使用什么特定的词语吗？
Definitely I had to use Velvet Revolution.
当然我必须使用天鹅绒革命。
And how do you say Velvet Revolution in Farsi?
天鹅绒革命用波斯语怎么说？
[SPEAKING IN FARSI] Nancy Updike And he wanted you to put those exact words in?
[用波斯语发言] 南希·厄普代克 他希望你准确地说出这些话？
Exact words.
准确的话。
Nancy Updike Confessions in Iran are sometimes broadcast on TV.
南希·厄普代克在伊朗的《忏悔录》有时会在电视上播出。
They show up in the evenings on the state-run news programs.
他们晚上出现在国营新闻节目中。
Transcripts of confessions are also posted on government websites.
供词笔录也发布在政府网站上。
And watching, reading, and hearing about one Iranian confession after another, it's impossible not to notice a distinct and unchanging editorial vision at work here.
观看、阅读和听到伊朗人的一个又一个忏悔，你不可能不注意到这里有一种独特且不变的编辑视野。
Because the fact is, people in Iran who have never met each other have nevertheless been confessing to a lot of the same things in a lot of the same ways for at least 10 years.
因为事实是，至少十年来，在伊朗，素未谋面的人们却以许多相同的方式承认了许多相同的事情。
WOMAN [SPEAKING IN FARSI] Nancy Updike In these video clips, one ordinary Iranian after another is confessing to having been manipulated by the BBC and Voice of America to cause mayhem or undermine the regime.
女人（波斯语）南希·厄普代克 在这些视频片段中，一位又一位普通伊朗人承认自己受到英国广播公司 (BBC) 和美国之音的操纵，造成混乱或破坏政权。
And here's another confession.
这是另一个坦白。
There's no tape, but we've got a transcript.
没有录音带，但我们有一份文字记录。
It's a TV confession from a documentary filmmaker and reporter for Newsweek in Iran.
这是伊朗一位纪录片制片人和《新闻周刊》记者的电视自白。
Maziar Bahari was arrested after the election.
马齐亚尔·巴哈里在选举后被捕。
His confession is a classic of the genre.
他的自白是这一流派的经典。
It's so crammed with buzz phrases and bullet points, that in some parts it gets hard to understand.
它充满了流行语和要点，以至于在某些部分很难理解。
It says, quote, "I, as a journalist and as part of the huge capitalist machinery of the West, sometimes blindly and sometimes intentionally positioned myself on the side that was suggesting that a Color Revolution was under way.
文中引用道：“我，作为一名记者，作为西方庞大资本主义机器的一部分，有时盲目地、有时有意地将自己置于暗示颜色革命正在进行的一边。
According to the models of Color and Velvet Revolutions, we can consider the incidents in recent weeks as classic, but defeated, examples of a Color Revolution, because it has the same properties as a Color Revolution."
根据颜色革命和天鹅绒革命的模型，我们可以将最近几周发生的事件视为颜色革命的经典但失败的例子，因为它具有与颜色革命相同的属性。”
When Omid, heard that a transcript of this guy Maziar's confession was going to be released, he bet a friend, who'd also been imprisoned in Iran, that they could guess what would show up in Maziar's confession.
当奥米德听说马齐亚尔的供词笔录即将公布时，他和一位同样在伊朗被监禁过的朋友打赌，他们可以猜出马齐亚尔的供词中会出现什么内容。
So they wrote down their guesses.
于是他们写下了自己的猜测。
When they read the confession, they were stunned at how right they were.
当他们读到供词时，他们惊讶地发现自己的供述是多么正确。
Because what Maziar Bahari said was not Maziar's language.
因为Maziar Bahari所说的不是Maziar的语言。
Everybody who knows Maziar, everybody who knows the other guy, Mahdavi-- I mean [?
每个认识马齐亚尔的人，每个认识另一个人马哈达维的人——我的意思是[？
Jose ?] Mahdavi-- we used to work at the same newspaper-- nice guy.
何塞？] Mahdavi——我们曾经在同一家报纸工作——好人。
They didn't talk with the language.
他们没有用语言交谈。
It was interrogator's language.
这是审讯者的语言。
It's the security force's language.
这是安全部队的语言。
What he said was a kind of analysis.
他说的是一种分析。
I read that analysis inside the prison.
我在监狱里读到了这篇分析。
It was the same.
都是一样的。
The narrative was very clear.
叙述的非常清楚。
The foreigners are influencing society.
外国人正在影响社会。
They want to change the society.
他们想要改变社会。
Velvet Revolution.
天鹅绒革命。
Another recurring part of the narrative is the inclusion of the names of foreign people and institutions whenever possible, hopefully famous ones.
叙述中另一个反复出现的部分是尽可能包含外国人和机构的名字，希望是著名的。
The BBC, CNN, Newsweek, The New York Times , George Soros, President Clinton, UCLA, Princeton, all have appeared in various confessions.
BBC、CNN、新闻周刊、纽约时报、乔治·索罗斯、克林顿总统、加州大学洛杉矶分校、普林斯顿大学都曾出现在各种自白中。
I talked to one former student activist arrested in 2000, Ali Afshari, who confessed to intentionally criticizing the Supreme Leader, and unintentionally trying to overthrow the regime.
我与 2000 年被捕的一名前学生活动人士阿里·阿夫沙里 (Ali Afshari) 进行了交谈，他承认有意批评最高领袖，无意中试图推翻政权。
Ali's interrogator tried to get him to write into his confession that former CIA Director George Tenet had personally guided the overthrowing plan.
阿里的审讯者试图让他在供词中写下前中央情报局局长乔治·特尼特亲自指导了推翻计划。
Of course, the CIA did famously orchestrate an overthrow in Iran in 1953, a truth that, for many Iranians, no doubt makes anything seem possible.
当然，1953 年，中央情报局确实在伊朗策划了一次著名的推翻，这一事实对于许多伊朗人来说，无疑让一切看起来都有可能。
But for Ali, the idea that he, as a student activist, had been a lackey for George Tenet was absurd and insulting.
但对于阿里来说，认为他作为一名学生活动家是乔治·特尼特的走狗的想法是荒谬和侮辱性的。
It was as though his confession was a historical novel, and his editor kept trying to get them to beef up the realness by sprinkling in actual historical figures.
就好像他的自白是一本历史小说，他的编辑一直试图让他们通过撒入真实的历史人物来增强真实性。
By now, Iranian political confessions have become so repetitive and recognizable that one of Iran's most famous political satirists, Ebrahim Nabavi, recently posted a fake one on YouTube.
到目前为止，伊朗的政治自白已经变得如此重复和容易辨认，以至于伊朗最著名的政治讽刺作家之一易卜拉欣·纳巴维 (Ebrahim Nabavi) 最近在 YouTube 上发布了一份虚假的政治自白。
[SPEAKING IN FARSI] Nancy Updike The comedian is dressed in prison stripes, and identifies himself as Mohammed-Ali Abtahi, the former vice president of Iran.
[波斯语] 喜剧演员南希·厄普代克 (Nancy Updike) 身穿监狱条纹服装，自称是伊朗前副总统穆罕默德·阿里·阿布塔希 (Mohammed-Ali Abtahi)。
If that seems like part of the joke, it isn't.
如果这看起来像是玩笑的一部分，那么事实并非如此。
Abtahi is one of the hundreds of people who have been in prison since the election.
阿布塔希是选举以来入狱的数百人之一。
In the spoof, the comedian looks sheepishly at the camera and says, "I confess that when I traveled to holy Mecca, I met with one of the agents from the frightening CIA.
在恶搞中，这位喜剧演员羞涩地看着镜头，说道：“我承认，当我前往神圣的麦加时，我遇到了来自可怕的中央情报局的一名特工。
He called me and offered me to do a Velvet Revolution."
他打电话给我并邀请我进行天鹅绒革命。”
There are obvious edits in the satire video.
讽刺视频中有明显的编辑。
And over the course of the story, the comedian's face gets covered in more and more Band-Aids.
在故事的过程中，喜剧演员的脸上布满了越来越多的创可贴。
As he continues, he admits that he eventually agreed to do the Velvet Revolution as long as he could do it his way.
他继续说道，他承认，只要他能按照自己的方式进行，他最终同意进行天鹅绒革命。
"I imported a few bolts of green velvet fabrics from Israel and England.
“我从以色列和英国进口了几匹绿色天鹅绒面料。
During this time, in addition to millions of dollars of funding that was handed to me by Christiane Amanpour, I also started the green velvet fabric business."
在此期间，除了Christiane Amanpour交给我的数百万美元资金外，我还开始了绿色天鹅绒面料业务。”
Later in the story, he suggests to one of his co-conspirators that they should change the revolution to focus on a cheaper fabric than velvet.
在故事的后面，他向他的一位同谋建议他们应该改变革命，将重点放在比天鹅绒更便宜的面料上。
The comedian, by the way, was himself forced to confess years ago.
顺便说一句，这位喜剧演员本人几年前就被迫坦白了。
He no longer lives in Iran.
他不再居住在伊朗。
These confessions, for all their heavy-handedness, have been crushingly effective.
这些认罪虽然手段严厉，但却非常有效。
They've ended careers, driven people out of the country, and kept others looking over their shoulder for the rest of their lives.
他们结束了自己的职业生涯，将人们赶出了这个国家，并让其他人在他们的余生中监视着他们。
Because the bargain is, confess and there's a good chance you'll be released.
因为讨价还价的是，坦白你就很有可能被释放。
Probably.
大概。
Eventually.
最终。
But the state could decide to bring a case against you afterward anyway.
但无论如何，州政府可能会决定随后对您提起诉讼。
Or they could go after your friends and family.
或者他们可能会追捕你的朋友和家人。
Or with all the personal details you've confessed along with political ones, the security services could blackmail you into working for them as a propagandist, an informant.
或者，根据您所供述的所有个人信息和政治信息，安全部门可能会勒索您作为宣传员、线人为他们工作。
Meanwhile, many Iranians even today believe the confessions are genuine, or at least could be.
与此同时，即使在今天，许多伊朗人仍然相信这些供词是真实的，或者至少可能是真实的。
For those who gets their news mostly from the state-run TV channels, the confessions seem as real as anything else on the news.
对于那些主要从国营电视频道获取新闻的人来说，这些供词似乎和新闻中的其他内容一样真实。
Even Omid, before he was arrested, sometimes wondered if the stories he'd heard about torture and forced confessions were exaggerations, or even made up altogether.
就连奥米德在被捕之前，有时也会怀疑他所听到的有关酷刑和逼供的故事是否夸大其词，甚至完全是捏造的。
Like I said, very effective.
就像我说的，非常有效。
I really understood at one point that it's not all about me.
我曾经一度真正明白，这并不完全是我的问题。
They are gathering information about the reformists.
他们正在收集有关改革派的信息。
I mean for example, they gave me names at one point.
我的意思是，例如，他们曾经给过我名字。
And I said, "I have never seen these people.
我说：“我从来没有见过这些人。
I know these people.
我认识这些人。
I have never seen these people.
我从来没有见过这些人。
And I cannot say that I have met them, or they have directed me, or they have guided me." And they told me that, "It's OK.
我不能说我见过他们，或者他们指导了我，或者他们指导了我。”他们告诉我，“没关系。
When you confess, and when you use their names in your confession, it would be so alarming for them."
当你认罪时，当你在认罪中使用他们的名字时，他们会感到非常震惊。”
So they wanted to intimidate those people, those reformists as well.
所以他们想恐吓那些人，还有那些改革派。
They didn't care that I didn't meet any of those people.
他们并不关心我没有见到那些人。
So the people who are in prison now, ranking reformists, they had been after them for five, six years.
所以现在在监狱里的那些人，都是改良主义者，他们已经追捕他们五六年了。
They just didn't decide to arrest them in the hours after the election.
他们只是没有决定在选举后的几个小时内逮捕他们。
They had been planning for this for years.
他们为此计划了很多年。
Omid wrote six drafts for his interrogator, by his own estimate.
据奥米德自己估计，他为审讯者写了六份草稿。
And out of that they shaped a 5,000 word version, and a shorter 2,000 word op-ed style version.
由此，他们制作了一个 5,000 字的版本，以及一个较短的 2,000 字专栏风格的版本。
Excerpts were printed in several newspapers.
一些报纸刊登了摘录。
And then he had to confess on TV.
然后他不得不在电视上认罪。
And they told me, my interrogator said, "This is the last part of the game.
他们告诉我，我的审讯者说：“这是游戏的最后一部分。
You should be on TV, and it's over.
你应该上电视，然后就结束了。
Don't screw us."
别搞砸我们了。”
Some TV confessions in Iran are the stark, looking-straight-at-the-camera confession you're probably imagining.
伊朗的一些电视认罪是你可能想象到的赤裸裸的、直视镜头的认罪。
But with other people-- journalists, or politicians, or big activists-- often it's staged as an informal interview in a room set up with chairs, a table, maybe some flowers, as though they're sitting down for a chat with Matt Lauer.
但对于其他人——记者、政治家或大活动家——通常是在一个房间里进行非正式采访，房间里有椅子、桌子，也许还有一些鲜花，就好像他们正在坐下来与马特·劳尔聊天一样。
It was a beautiful room, decorated beautifully with curtains, flowers, chairs, orange juice.
这是一个漂亮的房间，装饰得很漂亮，有窗帘、鲜花、椅子和橙汁。
But the thing was, I wanted to make it more unprofessional.
但问题是，我想让它变得更加不专业。
So they had to cut all the time, say, no, cut, again.
所以他们不得不一直剪，说，不，再剪一次。
Omid, what are you doing?
奥米德，你在做什么？
A few times I cried, and it was unintentional and also intentional, both.
有几次我哭了，既是无意的，也是有意的。
I didn't want to make it very easy for them.
我不想让他们变得太容易。
And was your chief interrogator there, behind the camera, saying you did it wrong, do it again?
你的首席审讯者是否在镜头后面，说你做错了，再犯一次？
Yes.
是的。
He was there, and he asked me to stop and I had to start again.
他在那里，他让我停下来，我必须重新开始。
So it took four hours to finish half an hour confession.
于是花了四个小时才完成了半个小时的表白。
After Omid was released in December of 2004, he leaked to Human Rights Watch that he and about 19 others who had been arrested around the same time had been coerced into confessing.
奥米德于 2004 年 12 月获释后，向人权观察透露，他和约 19 名同时被捕的其他人被迫认罪。
And the shocking thing was, many top government officials, when they heard what had happened to Omid and the others, were shocked-- officials like the president, moderate reformist Mohammad Hatami, and his ministers.
令人震惊的是，许多政府高级官员，当他们听到奥米德和其他人的遭遇时，都感到震惊——包括总统、温和改革派穆罕默德·哈塔米和他的部长们。
It caused an uproar.
引起轩然大波。
And eventually, Omid and another young journalist met with the head of the judiciary, the Grand Ayatollah Shahroudi.
最终，奥米德和另一位年轻记者会见了司法部门负责人大阿亚图拉沙赫鲁迪。
He's still the head of the judiciary today.
今天他仍然是司法部门的负责人。
He's the Iranian equivalent of the attorney general.
他相当于伊朗的司法部长。
And Omid learned that the security forces' standard procedure with the confessions was to make copies and send them along to government officials top ayatollahs as proof that there were Iranian citizens bent on undermining and plotting against the state.
奥米德了解到，安全部队处理口供的标准程序是复印副本并将其发送给政府官员最高阿亚图拉，作为伊朗公民一心破坏和密谋反对国家的证据。
And because the interrogators took so much care to make the confessions look unforced-- with the flowers in the vase, and the chatty interviewer, the confessing person not looking beat up or emaciated-- apparently, the videos were pretty convincing.
而且由于审讯人员非常小心地让供词看起来不是被迫的——花瓶里插着鲜花，采访者健谈，供认者看起来没有被殴打或憔悴——显然，这些视频非常有说服力。
When Omid and the other journalist told the head of the judiciary everything that had led up to their confessions, it was clear to Omid that he was hearing these things for the first time.
当奥米德和另一名记者向司法部门负责人讲述导致他们认罪的一切时，奥米德很清楚他是第一次听到这些事情。
I really trusted this guy.
我真的很信任这个人。
I felt that he was very honest.
我感觉他很诚实。
He had a very honest reaction.
他的反应非常诚实。
I could see in his face he was so angry.
我从他的脸上看出他非常生气。
And he was saying all the time, "Allahu akbar." People use it when they do not believe something, or something is very stunning for them.
他一直在说：“真主至大。”当人们不相信某件事，或者某件事对他们来说非常令人震惊时，他们就会使用它。
But for all the shock and outrage, and the promises to look into what had happened and take action, nothing changed.
但尽管大家感到震惊和愤怒，并承诺调查所发生的事情并采取行动，但一切都没有改变。
Not because the head of the judiciary or anyone else was insincere, Omid thinks.
奥米德认为，并不是因为司法机关负责人或其他任何人不真诚。
They just weren't, and possibly aren't, strong enough to fight what was happening.
他们只是没有，也可能没有，足够强大来对抗正在发生的事情。
Many people are not happy, even in the conservative camp, even among Ahmadinejad supporters.
许多人并不高兴，即使在保守派阵营中，甚至在艾哈迈迪内贾德的支持者中也是如此。
They are really mad at what is going on.
他们对正在发生的事情真的很生气。
In my case, I remember that many people in the judiciary and in the government, conservatives that I had a chance to talk to them, they told me that they are so stunned at how these guys are brutal, and why they are doing this, and how they are not responsible.
就我而言，我记得司法部门和政府的许多人，保守派，我有机会与他们交谈，他们告诉我，他们对这些人的残忍程度、他们为什么这样做以及他们如何不负责任感到震惊。
The lieutenant commander of Iran's Basij militia was quoted saying, "There are now so many confessions obtained from rioters that even if all the media mobilize for a long time to broadcast them, they still couldn't get all the information out to the people."
伊朗巴斯基民兵中尉表示，“现在从暴徒那里获得的供词非常多，即使所有媒体动员很长时间进行广播，也无法将所有信息传达给民众。”
A few days before that story came out, one of the most senior ayatollahs in Iran, the Grand Ayatollah Montazeri, said in a translation on the Middle East Media Research Institute website, "The proud people of Iran know very well exactly how authentic the detainees' confessions are.
报道发布前几天，伊朗最资深的阿亚图拉之一大阿亚图拉蒙塔泽里在中东媒体研究所网站的翻译中表示，“自豪的伊朗人民非常清楚被拘留者的供词有多么真实。
They're like confessions obtained by fascist and communist regimes.
它们就像法西斯和共产主义政权获得的供词。
The nation knows that the false confessions and televised interviews were obtained from its imprisoned sons with threats and torture, and that their aim is to cover up the oppression and injustice, and to present a distorted image of the people's peaceful and legal protest."
国家知道这些虚假供词和电视采访是通过威胁和酷刑从其被监禁的儿子那里获得的，他们的目的是掩盖压迫和不公正，并歪曲人民和平合法抗议的形象。”
Nancy Updike is one of the producers of our show.
南希·厄普代克是我们节目的制片人之一。
Since that story first aired in 2009, Maziar Bahari, the writer for Newsweek whose confession that Nancy read, has been released.
自该故事于 2009 年首次播出以来，南希读到的《新闻周刊》撰稿人马齐亚尔·巴哈里 (Maziar Bahari) 的自白已被公开。
Well, we close today's show with a bit of fine print that codified and made irrevocable some other, bigger changes in the life of Susan Burton and her family.
好吧，我们以一些小字来结束今天的节目，这些小字对苏珊·伯顿及其家人的生活进行了不可撤销的其他一些更大的改变。
When I was 13, my parents got divorced, and my mother and my sister and I moved from Michigan to Colorado.
当我 13 岁的时候，我的父母离婚了，我和我的母亲、姐姐和我从密歇根州搬到了科罗拉多州。
Like the pioneers, we settled in Indian territory, on a new street in a subdivision called Arapaho Ridge.
像拓荒者一样，我们在印第安人领土上定居，在阿拉帕霍岭一个分区的一条新街道上。
Our house was the color of sand.
我们的房子是沙子的颜色。
It had vaulted ceilings, a sunken family room, and the thing we found most offensive, a wet bar.
它有拱形天花板、下沉式家庭活动室，以及我们认为最令人反感的东西，那就是吧台。
The wet bar, with its ugly brass fittings and diamond-paned glass, seemed to symbolize all that was wrong with our newly constructed lives.
酒吧里有丑陋的黄铜配件和镶有钻石的玻璃，似乎象征着我们新建的生活中所有的问题。
We were no longer the perfect family of four, worthy of a tasteful colonial.
我们不再是完美的四口之家，不再是一个有品味的殖民地。
We were two latchkey kids and a single parent, and we'd been relocated to a tract house.
我们是两个带钥匙的孩子和一个单亲父母，我们被搬到了一个小房子里。
My mother displaced her anger about this onto the wet bar by refusing to use it for its intended function.
我母亲将她对此的愤怒转移到了酒吧上，拒绝使用它的预期功能。
The wet bar became our junk drawer.
吧台成了我们的垃圾抽屉。
Instead of alcohol, she kept files in there, checkbook registers, coffee maker instructions, and my report cards, which, since moving to Colorado, had begun to show lower grades than I'd ever gotten.
她在那里放的不是酒精，而是文件、支票簿、咖啡机说明书和我的成绩单，自从搬到科罗拉多州以来，成绩单开始显示出比我以前得到的更低的成绩。
One day, I was looking for my standardized test scores.
有一天，我正在查找我的标准化考试成绩。
There was no reason except that it was clear to me I was becoming stupid, and I liked to be reminded that I'd once been smart.
没有任何原因，只是我很清楚自己正在变得愚蠢，而且我喜欢别人提醒我我曾经很聪明。
But instead, I found something unexpected, a big, green, hanging folder filled with documents labeled, "Divorce."
但相反，我发现了一些意想不到的东西，一个绿色的大文件夹，里面装满了标有“离婚”的文件。
There was a moment of deciding whether or not to open it.
有一瞬间决定是否打开它。
Then, cautiously, as if I might set off an alarm, I cracked the folder and began to read my parents' divorce agreement.
然后，我小心翼翼地打开文件夹，开始阅读父母的离婚协议，仿佛可能会引起警报。
There was nothing dramatic-- no secret half siblings, not even a custody battle.
没有什么戏剧性的事情——没有秘密的同父异母的兄弟姐妹，甚至没有监护权之争。
To anyone else, the agreement would have read like what it was, a standard legal document.
对于其他人来说，该协议读起来就像是一份标准的法律文件。
But my parents' divorce was the biggest thing in my life.
但我父母的离婚是我一生中最大的事情。
I dwelled on it to the point of obsession, to the point of melodrama.
我沉迷于它，达到了痴迷的程度，达到了戏剧性的程度。
As far as I was concerned, it was the most important fact about me.
就我而言，这是关于我的最重要的事实。
Discovering the agreement was like finding that a new story had somehow been bound into a book I'd already read a thousand times.
发现这个协议就像发现一个新故事不知何故被装进一本我已经读过一千遍的书中。
And like a favorite story, the agreement became something I returned to a couple of times a year all throughout my teens.
就像一个最喜欢的故事一样，这个协议成为我在青少年时期每年都会回顾几次的东西。
Their names were on the cover page, my mother, the plaintiff, versus my father, the defendant.
他们的名字出现在封面上：我的母亲（原告）和我的父亲（被告）。
There was the horrible wrongness of that V that divided them.
这个 V 字存在着可怕的错误，导致了他们的分歧。
My mother was represented by a lawyer named Bruce Barnhardt.
我母亲的代理律师是布鲁斯·巴恩哈特 (Bruce Barnhardt)。
To him these agreements were probably just divorce Mad Libs.
对他来说，这些协议可能只是离婚疯狂的自由。
He'd sit at his big desk, with my mother across from him and fill in blanks.
他坐在大桌子前，我母亲坐在他对面，填补空白。
Debts-- $2,400, Cascade Country Club.
债务——2,400美元，喀斯喀特乡村俱乐部。
Vehicles-- 1986 Volkswagen Jetta.
车辆——1986 年大众捷达。
Bank accounts-- Merrill Lynch.
银行账户——美林。
But when I read the agreement, it didn't seem formulaic.
但当我读到协议时，它似乎并不公式化。
These details were precious to me, and I was grateful they'd been so painstakingly recorded.
这些细节对我来说很珍贵，我很感激他们如此精心地记录下来。
It made me feel important that somebody took an interest, set down our story like that, even if the writer was just a lawyer in Grand Rapids, Michigan, who'd been paid to do it.
让我感到很重要的是，有人对此感兴趣，这样写下我们的故事，即使作者只是密歇根州大急流城的一名律师，他是受雇这样做的。
Sometimes I would copy stuff down from the agreement, as if the information contained in it could get lost just as easily as our family.
有时我会抄下协议中的内容，好像其中包含的信息会像我们的家人一样容易丢失。
On one page, I found the phone number of a house in which I'd briefly lived with my father when my parents first got separated.
在一页上，我找到了父母第一次分居时我和父亲短暂居住过的一所房子的电话号码。
My father always had good phone numbers.
我父亲总是有很好的电话号码。
He got them by telling the operator he had a retarded child who needed something easy to memorize.
他通过告诉接线员他有一个弱智的孩子需要一些容易记住的东西来得到它们。
Not easy enough, apparently.
显然，这还不够容易。
I had forgotten this one.
我已经忘记这个了。
I copied the number down on a little Post-It note I saved for years, as if someday they might introduce a calling plan for dialing the past.
我把号码抄在我保存多年的便利贴上，仿佛有一天他们可能会推出一种拨打过去电话的通话计划。
My parents had joint legal custody, but my mother had physical custody.
我的父母拥有共同的法定监护权，但我的母亲拥有身体监护权。
This was divorced kid rank and serial number, and I was glad to know the exact terms.
这是离婚孩子的等级和序列号，我很高兴知道确切的条款。
Child support would be deducted from my father's paychecks and sent directly to my mother through a program called Friend of the Court.
子女抚养费将从我父亲的工资中扣除，并通过一个名为“法院之友”的计划直接发送给我母亲。
For a second, I wondered if they were saying my father was a guy who couldn't be trusted to send the money himself.
有那么一瞬间，我想知道他们是否在说我父亲是一个不值得信任的人，不能相信他会亲自寄钱。
I knew it wasn't true, but it had never occurred to me before.
我知道这不是真的，但我以前从未想到过。
Going through the folder always brought a rush of different feelings.
翻阅文件夹总是会带来不同的感受。
There's the fear I'd be caught, or that I'd find something disturbing, that my parents had done bad things or were bad people.
我担心我会被抓住，或者我会发现一些令人不安的事情，我的父母做了坏事或者是坏人。
But even the smallest thing could move me, something as simple as seeing my parents' initials together on the bottom right-hand corner of each page of a legal document.
但即使是最小的事情也能打动我，就像在法律文件每一页的右下角看到我父母姓名首字母缩写一样简单。
One afternoon, I found a document that stopped me cold.
一天下午，我发现了一份文件，让我顿时愣住了。
The hearing that was to set my parents' divorce in motion was only days away.
距离我父母离婚的听证会只剩几天了。
But in this note, Mr. Barnhardt had written, "Dear Nancy, this will confirm our telephone conference.
但巴恩哈特先生在这份便条中写道：“亲爱的南希，这将证实我们的电话会议。
I have adjourned the hearing date from January 30, 1987, to February 27, 1987.
我已将听证会日期从 1987 年 1 月 30 日推迟到 1987 年 2 月 27 日。
I wish you well in your efforts to resolve your marital difficulties."
我祝愿你努力解决婚姻困难。”
I sat before the wet bar for a beat.
我在吧台前坐了一会儿。
I was a scholar of my parents' divorce who'd just found the primary document of my dreams.
我是一位研究父母离婚的学者，刚刚找到了我梦想的主要文件。
Here was the suggestion that my parents had tried to stay together.
这是我父母试图住在一起的建议。
I ached that they hadn't been able to reconcile.
我为他们无法和解而感到痛苦。
It's been almost 20 years since I've lived in that house, and I hadn't looked at the agreement since, until recently.
我住那所房子已经快20年了，从那以后我就没有再看过协议书，直到最近。
I asked my mother for the folder, and after she gave it to me, it took me a couple of days to open it.
我向妈妈要了文件夹，她给了我之后，我花了几天时间才打开它。
I was worried that the agreement wouldn't give me the same feeling.
我担心这份协议不会给我同样的感觉。
Maybe the story of my family's disintegration had lost its hold over me.
也许我的家庭破裂的故事已经失去了对我的影响。
It was possible that, like the music of Bon Jovi, I'd be mystified by its former appeal.
有可能，就像邦乔维 (Bon Jovi) 的音乐一样，我会对它以前的吸引力感到困惑。
But the agreement held up better than I'd expected.
但该协议的执行情况比我预期的要好。
I'd forgotten that a divorce agreement is like a murder mystery, where the murder happens on the first page.
我忘记了离婚协议就像谋杀之谜，谋杀发生在第一页。
The opening language is brutal.
开头的语言很残酷。
"There has been a breakdown in the marriage relationship to the extent that the objects of matrimony have been destroyed, and there remains no reasonable likelihood that the marriage can be preserved.
“婚姻关系已经破裂，婚姻标的物已被毁坏，而且婚姻仍不存在维持下去的合理可能性。
Now, therefore, it is ordered and adjudged that this marriage is hereby dissolved."
因此，现命令并判决解除这段婚姻。”
I felt the same way reading these words at my desk as an adult as I had on the floor at 14.
我成年后在办公桌上读到这些文字的感受与 14 岁时在地板上读到的感受是一样的。
Back then, these words knocked the wind out of me.
那时，这句话让我大吃一惊。
To me this wasn't legalese.
对我来说这不是法律术语。
I wasn't old enough ever to have signed a contract for a rental or to have read the terms and conditions of a credit card agreement.
我的年龄还不足以签署租赁合同或阅读信用卡协议的条款和条件。
To me this was the language of proclamations and founding documents.
对我来说，这是宣言和建国文件的语言。
It was commensurate with my experience of my parents' divorce as an event that had changed the world.
这与我对父母离婚这一改变世界的事件的经历相称。
The weight I felt inside was matched by the weight of these words.
我内心感受到的重量与这些话的重量相匹配。
At the end of those summer afternoons, I'd return the divorce agreement to the wet bar as reverently as if I were replacing the Constitution in its marble shrine.
在那个夏天的午后，我会把离婚协议书还给酒吧，虔诚地把它放回大理石神殿里。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
[致谢]《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our show by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia, who follows me around the office trying to get me to say the letter L, which he knows I cannot say.
我们的老板托里·马拉蒂亚 (Torey Malatia) 先生对我们的节目进行 WBEZ 管理监督，他在办公室里跟着我，试图让我说出字母 L，但他知道我不能说这个字母。
He especially loves it when I say the name Lillian Hellman.
当我说出莉莲·赫尔曼这个名字时，他特别喜欢。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。