43: Faustian Bargains - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #43 | November 22, 1996 43: Faustian Bargains Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 43 集 | 1996 年 11 月 22 日 43：《浮士德便宜货》 注：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Act One: Dangerous Minds Ira Glass So LuAnne Johnson was a teacher, and she wrote a book about her job, and she sold that book to Hollywood.
第一幕：危险思想 艾拉·格拉斯 露安妮·约翰逊是一名教师，她写了一本关于她工作的书，然后她把这本书卖给了好莱坞。
And before long, her book was made into a movie called Dangerous Minds.
不久之后，她的书被拍成电影《危险心灵》。
Now it's also a TV show, also called Dangerous Minds.
现在它也是一部电视节目，也称为《危险心灵》。
And now, every week, LuAnne Johnson can turn on the TV and see a teacher with her same name march around and do things she thinks are unethical, inadvisable, and sometimes just plain silly, like holding a school fundraiser in a strip club.
现在，露安妮·约翰逊每周打开电视，都会看到一位与她同名的老师四处走动，做一些她认为不道德、不可取、有时简直是愚蠢的事情，比如在脱衣舞俱乐部举办学校筹款活动。
Number one, there's no teacher I know who would do such a thing.
第一，据我所知，没有哪个老师会做这样的事情。
It's illegal.
这是非法的。
I think you'd lose your job, and I would hope you would lose your job.
我认为你会失去工作，我也希望你会失去工作。
But I just objected to that.
但我只是反对这一点。
And I would never do it.
我永远不会这样做。
Well, from WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life.
嗯，来自 WBEZ 芝加哥，这是《This American Life》。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Today on our program, deals with the devil.
今天我们的节目讲述的是魔鬼。
As we do every week, we've invited a variety of writers and performers onto the show with their stories.
正如我们每周所做的那样，我们邀请了各种各样的作家和表演者来讲述他们的故事。
This week, all stories about selling your soul, making Faustian bargains.
本周，所有故事都是关于出卖灵魂、进行浮士德式讨价还价的故事。
In our program today, Act One, Dangerous Minds.
在我们今天的节目中，第一幕，危险思想。
Act Two-- Act Two is actually a found tape of Satan's own telemarketer.
第二幕——第二幕实际上是撒旦自己的电话推销员的录音带。
Act Three, Voyager.
第三幕，航行者号。
Act Four, Carmen Becomes Faust.
第四幕，卡门变成浮士德。
Act Five, First Contact.
第五幕，第一次接触。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, Dangerous Minds.
第一幕，危险的思想。
First, a word about LuAnne Johnson's book, the one that they adapted very freely into the movie and the TV show Dangerous Minds.
首先，介绍一下露安妮·约翰逊的书，他们非常自由地将这本书改编成电影和电视剧《危险心灵》。
It was called My Posse Don't Do Homework.
它被称为“我的团队不做作业”。
LuAnne Johnson taught in the public schools, and she says that contrary to what you may see on the evening news, it was not a war zone.
卢安妮·约翰逊在公立学校任教，她说，与晚间新闻中看到的相反，那不是战区。
No, that's one of the reasons I wrote that book, is I felt like people were just writing off kids.
不，这就是我写那本书的原因之一，我觉得人们只是在抛弃孩子。
You know, 13, 14 years old, saying, well, they're hopeless, they're useless, and there's nothing we can do.
你知道，13、14 岁的人会说，好吧，他们没有希望，他们没用，我们无能为力。
All the things I was reading were about how horrible they are, and they have no respect for people, and they don't care, and they're unteachable.
我读到的所有内容都是关于他们是多么可怕，他们不尊重人，他们不在乎，而且他们无法受教。
And I just don't feel that's true.
我只是觉得那不是真的。
I think that's really wrong.
我认为这确实是错误的。
Well, LuAnne Johnson's deal with the devil proceeded in several stages.
好吧，露安妮·约翰逊与魔鬼的交易分几个阶段进行。
First the film, which starred Michelle Pfeiffer, came out, I don't know, two years ago I think, three years ago.
首先，由米歇尔·菲佛主演的电影上映了，我不知道，我想是两年前，三年前。
And LuAnne Johnson did like some things about the film.
卢安妮·约翰逊确实喜欢这部电影的一些内容。
The primary lesson I always try to teach my students is you choose who you are.
我一直试图教给我的学生的主要教训是你选择你是谁。
You can throw up your hands and blame everyone in the world and say, I can't earn an A, I can't do this, I have to do that.
你可以举起手来责怪世界上的每个人，然后说，我拿不到A，我不能这样做，我必须这样做。
You don't have to do anything.
你不需要做任何事。
You don't have to come to school.
你不必来学校。
You choose to be here.
你选择在这里。
Now you can choose to learn, or you can choose to vegetate.
现在你可以选择学习，也可以选择单调乏味。
I think that came across in the movie, that there is hope, that you're not a victim.
我认为电影中体现了这一点：还有希望，你不是受害者。
Man, you don't understand nothing.
伙计，你什么都不懂。
I mean, you don't come from where we live.
我的意思是，你不是来自我们住的地方。
You're not bussed here.
你这里没有公交车。
Do you have a choice to get on that bus?
您可以选择乘坐那辆巴士吗？
Man, you come and live in my neighborhood for one week, and then you tell me if you've got a choice.
伙计，你来我家附近住了一个星期，然后告诉我你是否有选择。
There are a lot of people who live in your neighborhood who choose not to get on that bus.
有很多住在您附近的人选择不乘坐那辆公共汽车。
The people who choose to get on that bus, which are you, are the people who are saying I will not carry myself down to die.
选择登上那辆公共汽车的人，也就是你们，是那些说我不会让自己死去的人。
When I go to my grave, my head will be high.
当我去坟墓的时候，我的头会很高。
That is a choice.
这是一个选择。
There are no victims in this classroom.
这间教室里没有受害者。
But the movie took some liberties with LuAnne Johnson's book.
但这部电影对露安妮·约翰逊的书做了一些改动。
For instance, the filmmakers made her mixed race class into an all minority class.
例如，电影制片人将她的混血班级变成了全少数民族班级。
The filmmakers invented fictional black parents who did not want their kids to learn.
电影制片人虚构了不想让孩子学习的黑人父母。
The filmmakers organized the film around two stories which did not happen in real life.
电影制片人围绕两个现实生活中没有发生的故事组织了这部电影。
In one, LuAnne Johnson gets so overwhelmed by how impossible it is to make progress with her kids that after just a few months, she decides to quit.
在其中一篇文章中，露安妮·约翰逊 (LuAnne Johnson) 因无法与孩子取得进步而感到不知所措，几个月后，她决定退出。
And in the other, a student is shot and killed.
在另一起案件中，一名学生被枪杀。
And she feels that these things reinforce the very stereotypes that she was trying to dispel by writing her book in the first place.
她觉得这些事情强化了她最初通过写书试图消除的刻板印象。
And I think the movie really promotes racial tension by constantly pitting black against white, having the kids call me "white bread," which never happened.
我认为这部电影不断地让黑人与白人对立，让孩子们叫我“白面包”，这确实加剧了种族紧张局势，但这从未发生过。
It just, it didn't happen.
只是，它没有发生。
And I said to them, why'd they do that?
我对他们说，他们为什么这么做？
And they said, well, we found it hard to believe that a classroom of black and Hispanic kids would welcome a white teacher and give her any respect.
他们说，好吧，我们发现很难相信一个黑人和西班牙裔孩子的教室会欢迎白人老师并给予她任何尊重。
And I said, but it's not a matter of your skin color, it's a matter of how you treat them.
我说，但这不是你肤色的问题，而是你如何对待他们的问题。
But they couldn't believe that.
但他们无法相信这一点。
And they still don't.
但他们仍然不这样做。
And I think there are a lot of people who do believe that you can't walk into a classroom filled with minority kids and they're going to treat you right.
我认为有很多人确实相信你不能走进一个充满少数民族孩子的教室，他们会正确对待你。
Around this time, her deal with, well, with Hollywood, let's just say, with Hollywood took other turns.
大约在这个时候，她与好莱坞的关系，我们可以这么说，与好莱坞的关系发生了其他转变。
A new printing of the book My Posse Don't Do Homework came out.
《我的团队不做作业》一书的新版出版了。
And when I got that in the mail, I opened it up.
当我收到邮件时，我打开了它。
And it said Dangerous Minds.
它说的是危险的思想。
Yeah.
是的。
It said Dangerous Minds, and it had the movie poster on it.
上面写着《危险心灵》，上面还有电影海报。
And it said by LuAnne Johnson.
这是露安妮·约翰逊说的。
And I thought, well, I didn't write a book called Dangerous Minds.
我想，好吧，我没有写一本叫做《危险思想》的书。
How can they do this?
他们怎么能这样做呢？
So I called my editor, and I said, "How can you do this?
所以我打电话给我的编辑，我说：“你怎么能这样做？
How can you change the title of my book without even telling me?" And she said, "It's not your book.
你怎么能不告诉我就改变我的书名？”她说：“这不是你的书。
It's our book.
这是我们的书。
You wrote it.
你写的。
We bought it.
我们买了它。
We own it."
我们拥有它。”
Not long after that, executives, executives somewhere in America, decided to exercise a clause in an old contract that she had signed, and her deal took this turn.
不久之后，美国某个地方的高管决定执行她签署的一份旧合同中的一项条款，她的交易发生了这一转变。
Someone called me and said, did you hear?
有人打电话给我说，你听到了吗？
I heard they're making a TV show out of your book.
我听说他们正在根据你的书制作一部电视节目。
And I said, oh really?
我说，哦，真的吗？
Oh, that's interesting.
哦，这很有趣。
So I called my agent in Los Angeles and said, "They're making a TV series?
所以我打电话给我在洛杉矶的经纪人说：“他们正在拍一部电视剧？
I would like to consult, because I don't want them to do what they did with the movie, get so far removed from reality.
我想咨询一下，因为我不想让他们像电影里那样，脱离现实。
I'd really like to have something to do this time."
这次我真的很想找点事做。”
So she called back later and said, "No, they said they don't need you.
所以她后来回电话说：“不，他们说不需要你。
They don't want you.
他们不想要你。
They can't afford you." And I said, "What do you mean?
他们负担不起你。”我说：“你什么意思？
I know I'm a lot cheaper than those Hollywood people." So, call them back.
我知道我比那些好莱坞人便宜很多。”所以，给他们回电话。
That's right.
这是正确的。
Apparently they haven't heard about educational salaries in America.
显然他们没有听说过美国的教育工资。
Right.
正确的。
And then there was some discussion between her and them and me.
然后她、他们和我之间进行了一些讨论。
And in fact, I asked one of the producers how much they're paying the writers.
事实上，我问一位制片人他们付给编剧多少钱。
I said, "I heard you were paying them $50,000 each per episode." And he said, "Oh no, we're only paying them $30,000 plus perks."
我说：“我听说你们每集付给他们 5 万美元。”他说：“哦，不，我们只付给他们 30,000 美元，外加额外津贴。”
Per episode?
每集？
Luanne Johnson A week.
卢安·约翰逊 一周。
And we asked them to pay $25,000 for a year.
我们要求他们每年支付 25,000 美元。
And they said, "Well, we'll see.
他们说：“好吧，我们拭目以待。
Probably not."
可能不会。”
Again, there are things about the TV series that LuAnne Johnson likes.
再说一次，露安妮·约翰逊喜欢这部电视剧的一些东西。
She likes, especially, the feisty, in-your-face way that Annie Potts plays her, for example.
例如，她尤其喜欢安妮·波茨饰演的那种充满活力、咄咄逼人的风格。
But she also finds plenty that makes her uncomfortable.
但她也发现了很多让她不舒服的地方。
Like that episode where the students stage the fundraiser in the strip club.
就像学生们在脱衣舞俱乐部举办筹款活动的那一集一样。
They hold something called a hair war.
他们举办了一场名为“头发大战”的活动。
What?
什么？
What is a hair war?
什么是头发大战？
Student 2 It's kind of like a fashion show, only with hairdos.
学生2 这有点像一场时装秀，只是发型而已。
You're trying to tell me that people will come and lay down good money to watch us get our hair curled?
你是想告诉我人们会来花很多钱看我们卷发吗？
Where've you been, in a coma?
昏迷中你去哪儿了？
This ain't your everyday, walk-around hair.
这不是你日常行走的头发。
So I called the producer, Andy Schneider, and I said, "Andy, I'm very upset about this." He said, "Well, what's your problem?" And I said, "Where do I start?
所以我打电话给制片人安迪·施奈德，我说：“安迪，我对此感到非常沮丧。”他说：“那么，你有什么问题吗？”我说：“我从哪里开始呢？
Would you like if your 14-year-old or 15-year-old daughter came home from school and you found out her teacher had taken her to a strip club?" And he didn't answer that.
如果你 14 岁或 15 岁的女儿放学回家，发现她的老师带她去了脱衣舞俱乐部，你会愿意吗？”他没有回答这个问题。
LuAnne Johnson, the real one, not the TV one, is trying to raise millions of dollars to start a new school these days.
露安妮·约翰逊，真正的约翰逊，而不是电视上的约翰逊，最近正试图筹集数百万美元来开办一所新学校。
And having herself portrayed on national television this way every week, she feels, is not going to help her credibility.
她认为，每周在国家电视台上以这种方式展示自己并不会提高她的可信度。
They did the hair war to raise funds because Ms. Johnson had a fight with a school board member who it turns out is taking money away from the program.
他们之所以发起头发战是为了筹集资金，因为约翰逊女士与一名学校董事会成员发生了争执，结果发现该成员从该项目中夺走了资金。
For a teacher to involve kids in a political fight like that among the adults is inappropriate.
对于老师来说，让孩子们参与像成年人之间那样的政治斗争是不合适的。
It's just not professional behavior.
这根本就不是职业行为。
And I wouldn't do such a thing.
我不会做这样的事。
It's undignified, and it's silly.
这是没有尊严的，也是愚蠢的。
And he said, "Well, I think it's cute." And I said, "Well, I'll tell you what, I'm not cute, and my students don't think I am."
他说：“嗯，我觉得这很可爱。”我说：“好吧，我告诉你，我并不可爱，我的学生也不认为我可爱。”
Modelled by Academy Program's English teacher, LuAnne Johnson.
由 Academy Program 的英语老师 LuAnne Johnson 担任模特。
The last scene of the hair war episode has LuAnne Johnson on stage in a strip club modelling a big outrageous hairdo as her students cheer.
头发大战的最后一幕是露安妮·约翰逊在脱衣舞俱乐部的舞台上，在学生们的欢呼声中，留着一个夸张的大发型。
If LuAnne Johnson made a deal with the devil, it was a devil whose intentions, anyway, seemed particularly benign and well meaning.
如果卢安妮·约翰逊与魔鬼做了一笔交易，那么无论如何，这个魔鬼的意图似乎特别善良和善意。
The producers of Dangerous Minds are Andy Schneider and Diane Frolov.
《危险心灵》的制片人是安迪·施奈德和黛安·弗罗洛夫。
Before this project, they produced the offbeat program Northern Exposure for five years.
在这个项目之前，他们制作了另类节目《北国曝光》五年。
They've worked together so closely for so long that they habitually finish each other's sentences.
他们合作了这么长时间，以至于习惯性地互相补完对方的话。
And if you ask them what they're trying to accomplish in Dangerous Minds , the goals sound remarkably similar to the ones that LuAnne Johnson had in mind when she wrote her books.
如果你问他们在《危险思想》中想要实现什么目标，这些目标听起来与露安妮·约翰逊在写书时所设想的目标非常相似。
To give voice to a lot of kids that don't have a voice in television.
为许多在电视上没有发言权的孩子们提供发言权。
We set out, we wanted to make people feel that these kids were their own kids.
我们出发，想让人们觉得这些孩子是他们自己的孩子。
That's the point of the show.
这就是节目的重点。
These kids who we think of as at-risk kids, kids that come, often, from broken homes or from poverty, that they are not just statistics or something to be feared as elements of crime, but they're just kids like everybody else.
我们认为这些孩子是高危孩子，这些孩子通常来自破碎的家庭或贫困，他们不仅仅是统计数字或令人恐惧的犯罪因素，而且他们只是像其他人一样的孩子。
They're us.
他们就是我们。
We're them.
我们就是他们。
Though the producers do not have a lot of personal experience with these kinds of teenagers, they say they get their storylines from consultants who work with teens like this-- teachers, social workers, a youth gang services counselor.
尽管制片人对这类青少年没有太多的个人经验，但他们表示，他们的故事情节是从与此类青少年一起工作的顾问那里得到的——教师、社会工作者、青少年帮派服务顾问。
They read books.
他们读书。
They got the idea for the hair wars show from a story about hair wars in the Wall Street Journal .
他们从《华尔街日报》上有关头发战争的报道中得到了头发战争节目的想法。
And they described LuAnne Johnson's phone call to them about the episode this way.
他们这样描述了卢安妮·约翰逊打电话给他们有关这一事件的情况。
She felt that in the end, when she participated in the hair wars, that she looked--
她觉得最后，当她参加头发大战的时候，她看起来——
Silly.
愚蠢的。
Andy Schneider --silly.
安迪·施奈德——愚蠢的。
And our feeling is, well, that might be the case.
我们的感觉是，情况可能就是这样。
But in terms of creating a story, and an arc in the story, and giving a satisfying conclusion, it really helped the story to have her participate in it.
但就创作故事、故事情节以及给出令人满意的结局而言，让她参与确实对故事有帮助。
And we felt as writers that that was endearing, and something that was positive and really lovable about her, that she would participate in the competition.
作为作家，我们觉得她参加比赛是一件很可爱的事情，她身上有一些积极的、真正可爱的东西。
The real LuAnne Johnson also had problems with a scene in an early program where a black character threatens to kill the TV Ms. Johnson because she's encouraging his girlfriend to go to college.
真正的露安妮·约翰逊在早期节目中也遇到了问题，其中一个黑人角色威胁要杀死电视上的约翰逊女士，因为她鼓励他的女朋友上大学。
And I said, this is so wrong.
我说，这是非常错误的。
There are black males who aren't trying to kill people.
有些黑人男性并不想杀人。
Why do you have to constantly present them as violent?
为什么你必须不断地将他们表现得暴力？
They can drop out of school even and still not be a criminal.
他们甚至可以辍学，但仍然不是罪犯。
And I really resent that, because nobody ever threatened me.
我真的很讨厌这一点，因为没有人威胁过我。
You know, this is totally unrealistic to think that some black girl's boyfriend's going to come and shoot the teacher because she's trying to tell the girl to go to college.
你知道，认为某个黑人女孩的男朋友会来枪杀老师，因为她试图告诉女孩去上大学，这是完全不现实的。
Producers Andy Schneider and Diane Frolov say that, although LuAnne Johnson herself was never threatened, other teachers in her situation certainly have been.
制片人安迪·施奈德和黛安·弗罗洛夫表示，虽然露安妮·约翰逊本人从未受到过威胁，但与她处境相同的其他老师肯定受到过威胁。
And while they don't recall talking to LuAnne Johnson about this particular episode of the show, they don't view the scene the same way she does.
虽然他们不记得与露安妮·约翰逊谈论过该剧的这一特定情节，但他们看待这一场景的方式与她不同。
The conflict was not so much about the fact that she was going to college but that he was losing control of her.
冲突并不是因为她要去上大学，而是因为他失去了对她的控制。
And that dynamic could have happened with white people or anybody.
这种动态可能发生在白人或任何人身上。
Then, one of the things I said to them, and I probably offended them, but I said, "I'm not trying to offend you, but I really believe that one of the problems that the script writers are having with presenting black and Hispanic males accurately is that you don't know any who you haven't mowed your lawn or served your food.
然后，我对他们说的一件事，我可能冒犯了他们，但我说，“我并不是想冒犯你，但我真的相信，编剧们在准确呈现黑人和西班牙裔男性方面遇到的问题之一是，你不知道谁是你没有修剪过的草坪或没有为你提供食物的人。
You've never been to their houses."
你从来没有去过他们家。”
I don't know.
我不知道。
Diane Frolov Are we supposed to list our friends and that sort of thing in our defense?
黛安·弗罗洛夫：我们是否应该列出我们的朋友和诸如此类的事情来为我们辩护？
And the process of writing is always a process of research.
而写作的过程始终是一个研究的过程。
So, you know, Diane and I wrote Northern Exposure for five years.
所以，你知道，黛安和我花了五年时间写《北国风光》。
We didn't know any Alaskans.
我们不认识任何阿拉斯加人。
We didn't know any Native Americans.
我们不认识任何美洲原住民。
But the process of writing and getting into a world is a process of researching that and coming into contact with those people that you're trying to write about.
但写作和进入一个世界的过程就是一个研究这个世界并与你想要写的人接触的过程。
And again, I don't think we should have demographics, but our staff is largely minority, our writing staff.
再说一次，我认为我们不应该有人口统计数据，但我们的工作人员，我们的写作人员，基本上是少数。
And there are also former teachers on our staff.
我们的员工中也有前任教师。
And mentors and counselors and things like that.
还有导师和辅导员之类的。
What do you think the overall message of the TV series is?
您认为这部电视剧的整体信息是什么？
Ooh, that it's a war zone.
哦，那是战区。
Ira Glass So the overall message of the TV show is, in fact, the exact opposite of the kind of thing you're trying to convey with your books?
Ira Glass：那么事实上，电视节目的总体信息与您试图通过书籍传达的信息完全相反？
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
It's not a new story.
这不是一个新故事。
It's the same old story, which isn't true and never has been.
这是同样的老故事，这不是真的，也从来不是真的。
Well, we hope that's not the message of our TV series.
好吧，我们希望这不是我们电视剧的信息。
We feel that the message of the series is hope.
我们认为该系列传达的信息是希望。
Yes, and that people can make a difference in the lives of other people.
是的，人们可以改变他人的生活。
And that these are kids, and they're, as we've said before, they're our kids.
这些都是孩子，正如我们之前所说，他们是我们的孩子。
It's very disappointing to hear that from LuAnne.
从露安妮那里听到这个消息非常令人失望。
The war zone aspect of life in school is something that we will concentrate on more, only because you need conflict, you need dramatic situations, you need stakes to be high.
学校生活中的战区方面是我们会更加关注的事情，只是因为你需要冲突，你需要戏剧性的情况，你需要高风险。
Otherwise, I'm not sure how you make a show.
不然真不知道你是怎么表演的。
I mean, you have to deal with issues that have impact.
我的意思是，你必须处理有影响的问题。
In a sense, this is the Faustian bargain the producers of Dangerous Minds have made.
从某种意义上说，这是《危险心灵》制片人所做的浮士德式交易。
The high school in their show has more war zone moments, more heroic attempts by teachers to save kids, more crises and near crises than any real inner city high school, because they need three stories per episode, and they have to be dramatic.
他们节目中的高中比任何真正的内城高中有更多的战区时刻、更多的老师拯救孩子的英勇尝试、更多的危机和濒临危机，因为他们每集需要三个故事，而且必须具有戏剧性。
At this point, LuAnne Johnson says that she's refusing the Faustian bargain offered her by Hollywood.
此时，露安妮·约翰逊表示她拒绝好莱坞向她提供的浮士德式交易。
She has no contract with the TV series.
她与电视剧没有合同。
They send her checks.
他们寄给她支票。
She sends them back uncashed.
她把它们寄回来，但没有兑现。
She says if she had it all to do over again, she wouldn't have let anybody make a film or a TV series from her books unless she'd written the screenplay herself.
她说，如果一切重来一次，她不会让任何人根据她的书拍电影或电视剧，除非她自己写剧本。
And she's hoping the studio that produces Dangerous Minds , it's Disney, will change the way that it depicts her.
她希望制作《危险心灵》的迪士尼工作室能够改变对她的描绘方式。
Disney somehow seems to believe that they own LuAnne Johnson the way that they own Mickey Mouse and Dumbo and that they can take this character and make her do what they want and say anything-- you know, whatever experiences they want to have her do.
迪士尼似乎相信他们拥有露安妮·约翰逊，就像他们拥有米老鼠和小飞象一样，他们可以接受这个角色，让她做他们想做的事，说任何话——你知道，无论他们想让她经历什么。
I maintain I'm not a character.
我坚持认为我不是一个角色。
And I don't think you should be able to have me say things or do things that I wouldn't do and misrepresent me.
我认为你不应该让我说或做我不会做的事情并歪曲我。
Of course, as the producers of Dangerous Minds point out, Disney does own a Mickey Mouse and a Dumbo and a LuAnne Johnson.
当然，正如《危险心灵》的制片人指出的那样，迪士尼确实拥有米老鼠、小飞象和露安妮·约翰逊。
They can make this character do what they want.
他们可以让这个角色做他们想做的事。
And given the deals everyone has made, they have to.
鉴于每个人都达成了交易，他们必须这样做。
Act Two, The Undiscovered Country.
第二幕，未被发现的国家。
Well, our program today is about deals with the devil, and this next tape seemed oddly fated to end up on the show.
好吧，我们今天的节目是关于与魔鬼打交道的，而下一盘磁带似乎奇怪地注定会出现在节目中。
Over the last few months, it's been sent to This American Life, not by one, not by two, but by three different radio producers in three different parts of the country, none of them knowing that the other ones were sending it.
在过去的几个月里，它被发送到《This American Life》，不是一个人，也不是两个人，而是由全国三个不同地区的三个不同的广播制作人发送的，他们都不知道其他人也在发送它。
And none of them knew where the tape came from.
他们都不知道磁带是从哪里来的。
As best as anybody could reconstruct-- this is quite actually a little story.
尽人所能地重建——这实际上是一个小故事。
As best as anybody could reconstruct, NPR commentator Andrei Codrescu was leaving a party in New Orleans, put on his coat, and discovered this tape in his pocket.
据所有人所能还原的，NPR 评论员安德烈·科德雷斯库 (Andrei Codrescu) 正要离开新奥尔良的一个聚会，穿上外套，在口袋里发现了这盘磁带。
The tape starts with no explanation, in mid-conversation.
录音带在谈话中开始没有任何解释。
Here are some excerpts.
以下是一些摘录。
She knows you very well.
她很了解你。
Woman Uh-uh.
女人 呃呃。
Alice don't know me that well.
爱丽丝不太了解我。
She said that your mama wants to come back from the dead.
她说你妈妈想死而复生。
My mama's not dead.
我妈妈还没死。
David Black Well, now you lying or what?
大卫·布莱克 好吧，现在你在撒谎还是什么？
You tell me the truth now.
你现在告诉我真相。
I don't have a reason to lie to you, mister, and especially about my mama.
我没有理由对你撒谎，先生，尤其是关于我妈妈的事。
I know, I know.
我知道，我知道。
But now here's the thing, now.
但现在事情是这样的。
I deal in mysticism.
我从事的是神秘主义。
I bring back dead people.
我把死去的人带回来。
Is there anybody dead that you would like to bring back?
有没有死去的人你想带回来？
No. I had told [?
不，我已经告诉过[?
Mr. Slips ?] just now that I had wanted to talk to him about it.
斯利普斯先生？] 刚才我想和他谈谈这件事。
Why?
为什么？
Woman I just don't want to see none.
女人，我只是不想看到任何人。
I have no reason to want to see one.
我没有理由想看一个。
Madam, can I come over to your house tonight?
女士，我今晚可以去你家吗？
Uh-uh.
呃呃。
No. No. David Black I want to come over and talk to you and bring a spirit along with me.
不，不，大卫·布莱克，我想过来和你谈谈，并带上一个灵魂。
Well, you leave that spirit where it at, and you stay where you at.
好吧，你把那种精神留在原来的地方，你就留在原来的地方。
But it's not a mean spirit.
但这并不是一种卑鄙的精神。
Woman I don't want no kind of spirit.
女人我不要什么精神。
I won't charge you a cent.
我不会收你一分钱。
Woman I don't want to see no spirit.
女人我不想看到没有精神。
I don't want to be bothered with no spirit.
我不想被没有精神的事情所困扰。
I don't want no spirit around me.
我不希望我周围没有灵魂。
If I see a spirit, I wouldn't be able to sleep for months.
如果我看到鬼魂，我会几个月无法入睡。
Do you believe in spirits?
你相信灵魂吗？
Woman No. I believe, let me tell you, I believe--
女人 不，我相信，让我告诉你，我相信——
I'll bring it over and show him to you tonight.
今晚我会把它拿过来给你看。
I'm coming tonight.
今晚我来。
Woman You ain't coming to my house tonight.
女人 你今晚不会来我家。
Sister, there's nothing to get frightened of.
姐姐，没什么好害怕的。
Why?
为什么？
Woman Because I said I don't want to see no spirit.
女人因为我说过我不想看到没有灵魂。
And you see, firstly, Alice lied to you.
你看，首先，爱丽丝对你撒了谎。
She really did.
她确实做到了。
If she told you that, she's lying.
如果她这么告诉你，那她就是在撒谎。
Alice belongs to the occult.
爱丽丝属于神秘学。
Woman What is that?
女人 那是什么？
Alice is one of our members of the spirits.
爱丽丝是我们的精灵成员之一。
Alice is a spirit?
爱丽丝是精灵吗？
David Black She is a member of our spirit group.
大卫·布莱克 她是我们精神团体的成员。
In other words, Alice can bring the spirits back.
也就是说，爱丽丝可以将灵魂带回来。
What do you mean?
你是什么意思？
She can bring the spirit back where?
她能把灵魂带回哪里呢？
Oh, she can?
哦，她可以吗？
David Black I'll have her come over with me tonight, too.
大卫·布莱克 今晚我也会让她跟我一起过来。
You are not coming to my house, and Alice isn't either.
你不能来我家，爱丽丝也不能来。
I have nothing against Alice.
我对爱丽丝没有任何敌意。
She is a very, very sweet person.
她是一个非常非常可爱的人。
She is a good neighbor.
她是个好邻居。
It is nothing in the world.
这在世界上没什么。
I don't believe--
我不相信——
Well, we'll be over about 7:30, 8:00.
嗯，我们大约 7:30、8:00 结束。
As soon as it gets dark.
天一黑就。
Well, I bet you you won't come in my house.
好吧，我敢打赌你不会来我家。
Well, you don't like Alice?
那么，你不喜欢爱丽丝吗？
Or what is it?
或者它是什么？
I love Alice.
我爱爱丽丝。
David Black You don't trust us?
大卫·布莱克 你不信任我们？
I don't trust the spirit.
我不相信精神。
David Black Will you pray with me?
大卫·布莱克 你愿意和我一起祈祷吗？
Pray, go ahead and pray.
祈祷吧，继续祈祷吧。
David Black Repeat after me.
大卫·布莱克跟我重复一遍。
Oh lord--
哦主啊——
Uh-uh.
呃呃。
David Black Say a prayer with me.
大卫·布莱克 和我一起祈祷吧。
Uh-uh.
呃呃。
David Black I want to put a hex on you.
大卫·布莱克 我想对你施咒。
Uh-uh.
呃呃。
David Black Oh lord-- say it with me.
大卫·布莱克 哦主啊——跟我一起说吧。
Is Alice over there?
爱丽丝在吗？
Uh-uh.
呃呃。
David Black Tell her to come talk to me.
大卫·布莱克 让她来跟我谈谈。
Uh-uh.
呃呃。
David Black Give me your name and everything.
大卫·布莱克 告诉我你的名字和一切。
Uh-uh.
呃呃。
David Black Tonight the spirits shall come to your house.
大卫·布莱克 今晚，鬼魂将来到你家。
I am coming over.
我过来了。
Woman Well, you insist on coming over somewhere where you're not welcome.
女人 好吧，你坚持要到一个不欢迎你的地方来。
I am welcome in your house.
欢迎我来到你家。
You just don't know I am.
你只是不知道我是。
I bring with me the love of the spirits.
我带来了灵魂的爱。
They want to contact you.
他们想联系你。
Why do you say this?
为什么这么说呢？
Woman Because I'm afraid of spirits.
女人 因为我害怕鬼魂。
You are not afraid.
你不害怕。
You are not afraid.
你不害怕。
You are not afraid.
你不害怕。
Don't repeat it a third time.
不要重复第三次。
David Black You are not afraid.
大卫·布莱克 你不害怕。
Why not?
为什么不呢？
Because I asked you not.
因为我没有问过你。
David Black Are you superstitious about three?
大卫·布莱克 你迷信“三”吗？
Well, kind of.
嗯，有点。
David Black Three, three, three,
大卫·布莱克 三，三，三，
La-la-la-la-- David Black Three, three.
啦啦啦啦——大卫·布莱克 三，三。
13.
13.
Say 13.
说13。
Say six.
说六。
What you're saying.
你在说什么。
David Black Oh, you mean 13?
大卫·布莱克哦，你是说13？
I guess so.
大概吧。
David Black Well, try and say 13.
大卫·布莱克 好吧，试着说 13。
Can't say it.
说不出来。
David Black Are you afraid?
大卫·布莱克 你害怕吗？
I am afraid.
恐怕。
David Black No, no you aren't.
大卫·布莱克 不，不，你不是。
Do you love Jesus?
你爱耶稣吗？
Woman I know I love Jesus.
我知道我爱耶稣的女人。
Well, then you're not afraid.
嗯，那你就不怕了。
Woman I know Jesus don't do crazy work like that.
女人 我知道耶稣不会做那样疯狂的工作。
I know.
我知道。
God knows--
天知道——
Sister, this is religious worship.
姐妹，这是宗教崇拜。
We're no devil people.
我们不是恶魔人。
I can't have that.
我不能这样。
David Black I'm very religious.
大卫·布莱克 我非常虔诚。
I'm a preacher.
我是一名传教士。
Look, I can't.
瞧，我不能。
I'm not going to say that, because I don't know you.
我不会这么说，因为我不认识你。
I don't know what--
我不知道什么——
Well, our crack This American Life investigative team did some calling around.
好吧，我们的“美国生活”调查小组做了一些调查。
And it turns out this tape was made by an audio artist named David Black.
事实证明，这盘磁带是由一位名叫大卫·布莱克的音频艺术家制作的。
He was living in New Orleans at the time and would just call people up as this satanic character and mess with them.
当时他住在新奥尔良，只会把人们称为撒旦人物并扰乱他们。
Could you speak louder?
你能大声点吗？
Man Yeah, I'll speak a little louder.
伙计，是的，我会大声一点。
Yeah, I'm sick.
是的，我病了。
David Black What seems to be the problem?
大卫·布莱克 问题出在哪里？
I had a stroke about four, five years ago.
大约四五年前，我中风了。
And I've got high blood sugar.
而且我血糖很高。
God bless you.
上帝保佑你。
God love you.
上帝爱你。
Man God bless you.
上帝保佑你。
God love you.
上帝爱你。
Repeat after me.
跟着我重复一遍。
Oh lord-- Man Oh lord--
哦主啊——伙计哦主啊——
--and put me over a barrel-- Man --and put me over a barrel--
——然后把我放在一个桶上——伙计——然后把我放在一个桶上——
--and pull my pants down-- Man --and pull my pants down--
--然后把我的裤子拉下来--伙计--然后把我的裤子拉下来--
--with the punishing rod.
——用惩罚棒。
Man --with the punishing rod.
男人——拿着惩罚棒。
Forgive me of my sins-- Man Forgive me of my sins--
原谅我的罪孽——男人，原谅我的罪孽——
Louder, please.
请大声点。
Man Forgive me for my sins--
伙计，请原谅我的罪孽——
And take me to heaven-- Man And take me to heaven--
带我去天堂——伙计，带我去天堂——
Love me, father.
爱我，父亲。
David Black Love me like you do--
大卫·布莱克 像你一样爱我——
Love me like you do-- David Black --the little roach--
像你一样爱我——大卫·布莱克——小蟑螂——
--the little roach.
——小蟑螂。
David Black Louder, louder.
大卫·布莱克 大声一点，大声一点。
Repeat after me.
跟着我重复一遍。
[JIBBERISH] Man [JIBBERISH]
[胡言乱语] 男人[胡言乱语]
As loud as you can, brother.
兄弟，尽量大声。
Man [JIBBERISH]
男人[胡言乱语]
I can't talk so loud.
我不能大声说话。
David Black Put your mouth close to the receiver and holler it.
大卫·布莱克 将你的嘴靠近听筒并大声喊叫。
I love you.
我爱你。
I love you.
我爱你。
I love you.
我爱你。
I love you.
我爱你。
I love you.
我爱你。
I love you.
我爱你。
--snap the button-- Man --snap the button--
--按一下按钮--伙计--按一下按钮--
--on my underwear-- Man --on my underwear.
——在我的内衣上——伙计——在我的内衣上。
And let my armpit-- Man And let my armpit--
让我的腋窝——伙计，让我的腋窝——
--on the ground.
——在地面上。
Man On the ground.
男人在地上。
Thank you, father.
谢谢你，父亲。
What?
什么？
What?
什么？
Ira Glass Coming up, more deals with the devil, one hidden, one intended, one for children.
艾拉·格拉斯 (Ira Glass) 即将推出更多有关魔鬼的作品，一本是隐藏的，一本是故意的，一本是针对儿童的。
That's in a minute when our program continues.
一会儿我们的节目就继续了。
It's This American Life.
这就是美国生活。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our program we choose a theme, bring you stories on that theme.
我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，为您带来有关该主题的故事。
And here in Chicago, where we do the show from, we have seen a spate, a passel, a whole big group of stage productions of Faust in the last few months.
在我们演出的芝加哥，过去几个月我们看到了一系列、一大堆《浮士德》的舞台作品。
Randy Newman and David Mamet did their musical version at the Goodman Theater, Doorika Theater Company actually kicked the butts of Randy Newman with their version.
兰迪·纽曼和大卫·马梅特在古德曼剧院演出了他们的音乐剧版本，杜里卡剧院公司实际上用他们的版本踢了兰迪·纽曼的屁股。
Somebody else did one this summer, I can't remember who.
今年夏天还有人做过，我不记得是谁了。
Damn Yankees came through, starring Jerry Lewis.
该死的洋基队来了，由杰里·刘易斯主演。
It's Faust, Faust, Faust.
这是浮士德，浮士德，浮士德。
This town is Faust crazy.
这个小镇是浮士德疯狂的。
So we figured we should jump on the bandwagon with Satan.
所以我们认为我们应该跟上撒旦的潮流。
That's what we're doing this hour.
这就是我们这一个小时要做的事情。
And today's show is deals with the devil, selling your soul.
今天的节目是与魔鬼打交道，出卖你的灵魂。
We are at Act Three of our program, Voyager.
我们正处于我们的计划 Voyager 的第三幕。
In the opera Faust, when the devil appears for the first time, he says, simply, "Here I am.
在歌剧《浮士德》中，当魔鬼第一次出现时，他简单地说：“我在这里。
Why are you surprised?" See, that is the way to do it.
你为什么感到惊讶？”看，这就是这样做的方法。
That is the way to do that.
这就是做到这一点的方法。
The problem in our daily lives is that when we're offered the deal with the devil, we often do not know that that is the choice we're making.
我们日常生活中的问题是，当我们接受与魔鬼的交易时，我们常常不知道这就是我们所做的选择。
This next story is about a bargain like that.
下一个故事就是关于这样的讨价还价。
This American Life producer Alix Spiegel headed home to Baltimore to meet with a friend of hers, Jayna Park.
《美国生活》制片人阿利克斯·斯皮格尔 (Alix Spiegel) 前往巴尔的摩的家中会见她的朋友杰娜·帕克 (Jayna Park)。
Jayna and I meet in the courtyard of the Peabody Conservatory of Music, then walk down the street to Louis's Bookstore Cafe.
杰娜和我在皮博迪音乐学院的庭院见面，然后沿着街道走到路易斯书店咖啡馆。
When we were teenagers, Jayna and I would go to Louis's between orchestra and violin lessons.
当我们还是青少年的时候，杰娜和我会在上管弦乐队和小提琴课的间隙去路易斯家。
We'd eat fish sandwiches, talk about music, and gawk at the art boys.
我们会吃鱼三明治，谈论音乐，呆呆地看着艺术男孩。
Jayna is Korean.
杰娜是韩国人。
When Jayna was 11, Jayna, her mother, her violin teacher, and her aunt, all drove four hours from the small town where she grew up to Seoul, South Korea's capital.
当杰娜 11 岁的时候，杰娜、她的母亲、她的小提琴老师和她的姑妈，从她长大的小镇开车四个小时来到韩国首都首尔。
They went to a big hotel, the hotel where all the Korean celebrities and international tourists stayed, and went to the room of violinist Berl Senofsky.
他们去了一家大酒店，韩国名人和国际游客都住过的酒店，还去了小提琴家贝尔·塞诺夫斯基的房间。
She played him the Mendelssohn violin concerto.
她为他演奏了门德尔松小提琴协奏曲。
I think the first thing he said was-- well, the first thing that my aunt translated to us was-- she should come to the States and study with me.
我想他说的第一句话是——嗯，我姨妈翻译给我们的第一句话是——她应该来美国和我一起学习。
Is that possible?
这可能吗？
Is that possible?
这可能吗？
Like, would your family allow her to go?
比如，你的家人会允许她去吗？
Asking my mother this, basically.
基本上就是问我妈妈这个问题。
And I remember my mother just being like, what?
我记得我妈妈只是说，什么？
What?
什么？
What?
什么？
You want what?
你想要什么？
You know, like she was just utterly confused.
你知道，就像她完全困惑一样。
And then at the same time, I could see her just like sort of smiling.
与此同时，我可以看到她好像在微笑。
Like she couldn't believe her daughter, you know, whatever.
就像她无法相信她的女儿一样，你知道，无论如何。
No one in Jayna's family really knew what she'd be getting into if she accepted Senofsky's offer to go to America.
杰娜的家人中没有人真正知道如果她接受塞诺夫斯基去美国的邀请，她会遇到什么。
But it was clear from the beginning that if Jayna went, she would go alone.
但从一开始就很清楚，如果杰娜去，她会一个人去。
My dad was talking about, you know, maybe we might have to give her up for adoption.
我爸爸说，你知道，也许我们可能不得不把她交给别人收养。
I kind of almost remember feeling like, he's asking me, like, would I be willing to give up my parents and my family for this glamorous life, or whatever?
我几乎记得他在问我，我是否愿意为了这种迷人的生活而放弃我的父母和家庭，或者其他什么？
And at the time I didn't understand.
而当时我并不明白。
I was like, how can you ask me this question?
我当时想，你怎么能问我这个问题？
I don't want to give up anything.
我不想放弃任何东西。
Later, at Jayna's house, she brings out the violin.
后来，在杰娜家里，她拿出了小提琴。
I ask her to play me the Mendelssohn, the song that she played for Mr. Senofsky, the song that literally divided her life into past and present.
我请她为我演奏门德尔松曲，这是她为塞诺夫斯基先生演奏的歌曲，这首歌实际上将她的生活分为过去和现在。
The opening melody is famous for being hard to play.
开场曲以难弹而闻名。
[INAUDIBLE] [PLAYING VIOLIN] Alix Spiegel I remember the first time I saw Jayna.
[听不清] [拉小提琴] Alix Spiegel 我记得第一次见到 Jayna 时的情景。
She was short and chubby, and dressed in a red Korean coat.
她身材矮小，胖乎乎的，穿着一件红色的韩国外套。
Immediately after coming to America, Jayna dropped about 20 pounds.
来到美国后，Jayna 立即减重了约 20 磅。
I remember people whispering that she was chubby when she arrived because meals were the only time that Jayna's strict Korean mother would allow her to stop practicing.
我记得当她到达时，人们窃窃私语说她很胖，因为吃饭是杰娜严格的韩国母亲唯一允许她停止练习的时间。
There were other rumors, all part of the Jayna mystique, the young Korean prodigy who had sacrificed so much, come alone from Korea to study in Baltimore.
还有其他谣言，都是杰娜神秘的一部分，这位年轻的韩国神童牺牲了这么多，只身从韩国来到巴尔的摩学习。
Classical music, like ballet or gymnastics, is a discipline with a torrentious aesthetic.
古典音乐，就像芭蕾舞或体操一样，是一门具有汹涌美感的学科。
The greater the sacrifice, the bigger the hero.
牺牲越大，英雄越大。
And to Peabody, a second-rate music school in a second-rate town, Jayna's sacrifice and talent were Olympian.
对于皮博迪这所位于二流小镇的二流音乐学校来说，杰娜的牺牲和才华堪称奥林匹亚。
We were all awed.
我们都很敬畏。
No one so young played so well.
没有这么年轻的人打得这么好。
Jayna moved in with a host family, the Kilsteads.
杰娜搬到寄宿家庭基尔斯特德一家住。
Carla Kilstead, another Senofsky student, was about the same age as Jayna and I.
塞诺夫斯基的另一位学生卡拉·基尔斯特德（Carla Kilstead）与我和杰娜年龄相仿。
We would all hang out together, play Space Invaders in the Peabody lounge and beg money off our moms for the candy machines.
我们会一起出去玩，在皮博迪休息室玩《太空入侵者》，并向妈妈乞讨钱买糖果机。
Then I remember you being in the car with my mom, and me, and Carla.
然后我记得你和我妈妈、我还有卡拉在车里。
Was this like the first time ever that I came to Peabody?
这是我第一次来皮博迪吗？
This was the first time ever.
这是第一次。
And I remember we were driving past the Inner Harbor, and there was a ship.
我记得我们开车经过内港，那里有一艘船。
Ship.
船。
That was my first curse word, because, yeah, you and Carla were trying to teach me.
这是我的第一个咒语，因为，是的，你和卡拉试图教我。
Like, you guys just took me by the hand, OK, look, see, that's a ship.
就像，你们拉着我的手，好吧，看，看，那是一艘船。
And I was like, ah, ah, [BLEEP], [BLEEP].
我就像，啊，啊，[BLEEP]，[BLEEP]。
Jayna says the first couple of years in America were everything she wanted them to be.
杰娜说，在美国的最初几年正如她所希望的那样。
Everything was new.
一切都是新的。
Everything was interesting.
一切都很有趣。
Her life with her host family was good.
她和寄宿家庭的生活很美好。
She did well in competitions, and Senofsky got his manager to set up some concerts for her in Holland.
她在比赛中表现出色，塞诺夫斯基让他的经纪人在荷兰为她举办了一些音乐会。
Then, after two years of study at Peabody, Jayna went back to Korea for the first time.
然后，在皮博迪大学学习两年后，杰娜第一次回到韩国。
And when she came back to America, things started to fall apart.
当她回到美国时，事情开始分崩离析。
Her relationship with her host family deteriorated.
她与寄宿家庭的关系恶化。
I don't know what it was, but I think like around the third year, or something like that that I was living with them, I really started to feel like my presence there was a burden to them, you know?
我不知道那是什么，但我想大约在第三年，或者类似我和他们住在一起的时候，我真的开始觉得我的存在对他们来说是一种负担，你知道吗？
And that's when it started getting hard, because then I realized, oh my gosh, what am I doing?
就在那时，事情开始变得困难，因为那时我意识到，天哪，我在做什么？
I've been here, I've been living with a family that's not mine, basically strangers.
我来过这里，一直和一个不属于我的家庭住在一起，基本上都是陌生人。
What can they possibly like about this?
他们可能会喜欢这个什么？
She left that host family and moved in with another and then left them for another.
她离开了那个寄宿家庭，搬到另一个家庭住，然后又离开他们去了另一个家庭。
More was expected of Jayna than of any of us, and she was essentially raising herself.
人们对杰娜的期望比对我们任何人都高，而她本质上是在提高自己。
She was lonely and started to miss her family in Korea.
她很孤独，开始想念在韩国的家人。
At one point, she called her mom.
有一次，她给妈妈打了电话。
Well, I was really upset.
嗯，我真的很沮丧。
So I called and I was crying, and I said, you know, can I just come back and just go back to school there?
所以我打电话给我，我哭了，我说，你知道吗，我可以直接回到那里的学校吗？
At least let me try that and see if that works.
至少让我尝试一下，看看是否有效。
And I was really hoping, if not assuming, that my mother would just say, sure, come back, you know?
我真的希望，如果不是假设的话，我的母亲会说，当然，回来，你知道吗？
She said, that's ridiculous.
她说，这太可笑了。
You've been there for so long now, and now you have to carry on what you've been doing.
你已经在那里呆了这么久了，现在你必须继续你一直在做的事情。
And I just remember hanging up.
我只记得挂断了电话。
I don't remember exactly what I said.
我不太记得我说了什么了。
I just remember hanging up, feeling so desperate.
我只记得挂断电话，感觉非常绝望。
I remember Jayna during this part of her life.
我记得杰娜这段时间的经历。
I remember driving her back from orchestra rehearsal and sitting with her in my car outside her house.
我记得开车送她结束管弦乐队排练回来，和她一起坐在她家外面的车里。
I was 16 and she was 14.
那年我16岁，她14岁。
I remember her telling me about the problems in her family back home in Korea.
我记得她告诉我她在韩国的家人遇到的问题。
Her father was having financial difficulties.
她的父亲遇到经济困难。
Her brother was having trouble getting into the right college, which in Korea determines your whole future.
她哥哥很难进入合适的大学，而这在韩国决定了你的整个未来。
And her sister had had some kind of breakdown and had been put into a mental institution.
她的妹妹也曾患过某种精神崩溃，被送进了精神病院。
It was all very draining, and Jayna was having a hard time.
这一切都让人筋疲力尽，杰娜过得很艰难。
But what I remember best was that these crises somehow forced Jayna to think about her decision to come to America in a new way.
但我记得最清楚的是，这些危机在某种程度上迫使杰娜思考她以新的方式来到美国的决定。
Watching her family struggle from a distance somehow brought her face to face with her own distance from them and from her culture.
远远地看着家人的挣扎，不知何故让她直面自己与家人和文化的距离。
I remember her telling me that she felt she could never go back to Korea, that she had missed too much.
我记得她告诉我，她觉得她再也回不了韩国了，她错过了太多。
I was accused constantly by my family of becoming so Americanized.
我的家人不断指责我变得如此美国化。
But then I would look at myself here, and I would be hanging out with my friends and stuff.
但我会在这里审视自己，我会和我的朋友们一起出去玩。
And then all of a sudden, I would look at myself and just feel like, gosh, but I'm not like them.
然后突然间，我会看着自己，感觉，天哪，但我和他们不一样。
I'm not one of them.
我不是他们中的一员。
So I really just kind of felt like I didn't belong anywhere.
所以我真的觉得我不属于任何地方。
And that's when I slept a lot.
那时我睡了很多觉。
In the world of classical music, if you don't make it as a soloist by the time you're 16 or 17, odds are you're never going to make it.
在古典音乐的世界里，如果你在 16 岁或 17 岁的时候还没有成为一名独奏家，那么你很可能永远不会成功。
At 20, it hadn't happened for Jayna.
20 岁的时候，这对 Jayna 来说并没有发生。
She was still practicing and competing, but it was more of a struggle.
她仍在练习和比赛，但更多的是挣扎。
And so one day, I just decided, OK, I'm going to try something else.
所以有一天，我决定，好吧，我要尝试别的事情。
I want to know what it's like to not be a violinist.
我想知道不成为小提琴手会怎样。
So I put my violin away, and for two weeks, every day for two weeks, I was just living like a non-violinist.
所以我把小提琴收起来，两周以来，每天都像一个非小提琴家一样生活。
I was going to bookstores, looking for-- I don't know.
我要去书店寻找——我不知道。
I was reading, just trying to look for what interests me.
我在读书，只是想寻找我感兴趣的东西。
I was just like wanting-- I don't know.
我只是想——我不知道。
I was dwelling on that luxury of being able to choose for myself.
我沉浸在能够为自己做出选择的奢侈之中。
But eventually, I really missed it.
但最终，我真的很怀念。
I really missed the music.
我真的很怀念音乐。
Someone recently wrote that the tragedy of Bob Dole is not only that he sold out his principles and sold out everything he ever believed in to become president, this deficit hawk who campaigned on the kind of tax cut he used to ridicule as voodoo economics, but that after he sold out his principles and his soul, he discovered that there were no buyers.
最近有人写道，鲍勃·多尔的悲剧不仅在于他出卖了自己的原则，出卖了他为成为总统而相信的一切，这位赤字鹰派以他曾经嘲笑为巫术经济学的减税方式进行竞选，而且在他出卖了自己的原则和灵魂之后，他发现没有买家。
Jayna's story reminds me of that.
杰娜的故事让我想起了这一点。
She agrees that yes, she made a Faustian bargain.
她同意，是的，她做了一个浮士德式的交易。
She left her family, left her country, left her home.
她离开了家人，离开了祖国，离开了家。
But she never got the fame and fortune she made all those sacrifices for.
但她付出的所有牺牲却从未得到名誉和财富。
And when I talked to her, I somehow expected her to be as conflicted about it as she was when we were in my car at 16.
当我和她谈话时，我不知何故预计她对此会像 16 岁时我们在我的车里时一样矛盾。
But in fact, she was fine with it.
但事实上，她对此也很满意。
Her feelings have changed, and she's outgrown the premise of the bargain.
她的感情发生了变化，她已经不再需要讨价还价的前提了。
She doesn't particularly want to be a soloist, and she's not driven for fame.
她并不是特别想成为一名独奏家，也不是为了名利而追求。
With or without violin, Jayna clearly prefers life in America to the restricted life she would have had in Korea.
不管有没有小提琴，杰娜显然更喜欢美国的生活，而不是在韩国过的受限制的生活。
And though recently her parents have started talking about coming to the States, moving in with her so that they can be closer, she finds these conversations make her nervous.
尽管最近她的父母开始谈论要来美国和她一起住，这样他们就可以更亲近，但她发现这些谈话让她感到紧张。
She doesn't want to give up the independence she's had since she was 11.
她不想放弃从 11 岁起就拥有的独立性。
I don't feel regret.
我不觉得后悔。
I don't feel regret that he was there, and that I gave in to this deal.
我并不后悔他的存在，也不后悔我屈服于这笔交易。
I don't know if I should say I gave in.
我不知道我是否应该说我屈服了。
But I really don't regret the fact that he was there that day, listening to me and saying those things, you know, come with me to a new place, a new world, and all that.
但我真的不后悔那天他在那里，听我说话，说那些话，你知道，跟我一起去一个新的地方，一个新的世界，等等。
I don't think that he was wrong.
我不认为他错了。
Because I have to say, it was just a very adventurous thing to do.
因为我不得不说，这是一件非常冒险的事情。
And I really feel like if I had a choice to stay home and to do this, I think every time, I would choose it, choose to go.
我真的觉得如果我可以选择呆在家里做这件事，我想每次我都会选择它，选择离开。
Jayna's now 23.
杰娜现在23岁了。
She's still at Peabody.
她还在皮博迪。
She gigs with the Lyric Opera Orchestra and Young Concert Artists' Orchestra in Baltimore.
她与巴尔的摩抒情歌剧院管弦乐团和青年音乐会艺术家管弦乐团一起演出。
She has a sponsor, a businessman in North Carolina who heard her perform and now helps her with a monthly check.
她有一位赞助人，一位北卡罗来纳州的商人，他听过她的表演，现在帮助她支付每月的支票。
At her apartment, after playing three songs for me, Jayna stops and is about to put her violin away.
在她的公寓里，杰娜为我演奏了三首歌后，停下来，准备把小提琴收起来。
She asks, should I keep playing?
她问，我应该继续玩吗？
And I say, sure, play more.
我说，当然，多玩。
No, she says, I mean the violin.
不，她说，我是说小提琴。
Jayna's still wondering.
杰娜仍然想知道。
When I was nearing my 30th birthday, I decided it was about time to get off welfare.
当我临近 30 岁生日时，我决定是时候摆脱福利了。
Both the children were in school, and old dreams of being a hippie revolutionary scrounging for a pound of bulgur and soybeans in the mountains didn't seem nearly as romantic as it had five years before.
两个孩子都在上学，成为一名嬉皮士革命者在山里寻找一磅干小麦和大豆的旧梦似乎不再像五年前那么浪漫了。
My husband had run off to the Virgin Islands two winters before with a fat Jewish girl who knew somebody down there who had a boat.
两年前的冬天，我丈夫和一个胖犹太女孩跑到了维尔京群岛，她认识那里有一艘船的人。
When this story begins, this story of another deal with the devil, another person coming in from the sticks to the big city, Carmen Delzell is living in a tenant farmer's shack, no phone or radio or clock.
当这个故事开始时，另一个与魔鬼打交道的故事，另一个人从棍棒来到大城市，卡门·德尔泽尔住在一个佃农的小屋里，没有电话、收音机或时钟。
Water comes from a pump, is heated on an Ashley wood stove.
水来自泵，在 Ashley 木火炉上加热。
It's 1978.
现在是 1978 年。
And to earn her way out of there, Carmen Delzell started to go to auctions and thrift stores out in the country, and buy stuff cheap that she could drive into Washington, DC and sell for higher prices at the flea markets there.
为了摆脱那里的困境，卡门·德尔泽尔开始去乡下的拍卖会和旧货店买便宜的东西，然后她可以开车去华盛顿特区，然后在跳蚤市场上以更高的价格出售。
I must have been a sight in those days with my folding tables and clothes racks and raggedy looking children in Georgetown.
那些日子里，我一定是乔治敦的一道风景，我的折叠桌、衣架和衣衫褴褛的孩子们。
I think I was pretty then, but I didn't know it.
我觉得那时候的我很漂亮，只是我自己不知道而已。
I wore peasant blouses with no brassiere, and my hair was long and curly and white-blond from the sun.
我穿着农家衬衫，没有胸罩，头发又长又卷，在阳光下呈白金色。
You must realize that in those days, hippie women were really different from straight women.
你必须意识到，在那个时代，嬉皮女性和异性恋女性真的很不一样。
We thought we were practically another race.
我们以为我们实际上是另一个种族。
We believed in all kinds of dogmas and rhetoric.
我们相信各种教条和言辞。
We believed it, and we lived it.
我们相信它，我们也实践它。
Not eating meat was one of those.
不吃肉就是其中之一。
Smoking dope was really important.
吸毒真的很重要。
We believed in karma and revolution and a whole lot of obscure practices which sound silly now but made a whole lot of sense back then.
我们相信业力和革命，以及许多晦涩难懂的做法，这些做法现在听起来很愚蠢，但在当时却很有意义。
So when a young lawyer or real estate broker or something would come along and hang around too long, I didn't know what to think.
因此，当一位年轻的律师或房地产经纪人或其他什么人出现并在那里待了太久时，我不知道该怎么想。
Didn't they know that we were worlds apart in every way?
难道他们不知道我们在各方面都有天壤之别吗？
What could we possibly have to say to each other?
我们可能要对彼此说些什么？
I was so naive.
我太天真了。
When the man who ran the flea market invited me out to dinner at the Steak 'n Egg Kitchen, I was flabbergasted.
当跳蚤市场的经营者邀请我去牛排蛋厨房吃晚饭时，我大吃一惊。
I was, but I went anyway.
我是，但我还是去了。
By now, it was beginning to get chilly.
这时，天已经开始变冷了。
Money would really be tight when it got too cold to sell on the street, so I decided to go to a fortune teller.
天太冷了，钱真的很紧张，没法在街上卖东西，所以我决定去找算命先生。
She lived and worked in a storefront in Chinatown.
她在唐人街的一家店面生活和工作。
She was fat and sneaky-looking and had only one breast.
她身材肥胖，样子鬼鬼祟祟，只有一个乳房。
But as it turned out, she was right about everything to come, and she gave me three wishes.
但事实证明，她对未来的一切都是正确的，她给了我三个愿望。
I wished for an apartment, a man, and an antique store.
我想要一套公寓、一个男人和一家古董店。
She gave me a strange list of things to buy.
她给了我一张奇怪的要买东西的清单。
They were a bottle of Chinese floor wash, four seven-day candles, red, white, blue, and green, a box of bano sangrados, which means spirit bath, white flowers, jinx remover powder, and Indian money draw soap.
它们是一瓶中式洗地液、四支七日蜡烛（红、白、蓝、绿）、一盒“bano sangrados”（意思是酒精浴）、白花、除恶粉和印度抽钱肥皂。
I drove back to the country $20 poorer and kind of depressed that I could have been so vulnerable.
我开车回到乡下，身上的钱少了 20 美元，我有点沮丧，因为我本来可以如此脆弱。
That was on a Saturday.
那是一个星期六。
On Sunday, I poured the bottle of Chinese floor wash into the bucket of fresh pumped water and scrubbed all the floors in the house with it.
周日，我把一瓶中国洗地剂倒进一桶新鲜的抽水里，用它擦洗了房子里的所有地板。
This was to clear out evil spirits.
这是为了清除邪灵。
Then when the children went to sleep, I began the ritual of the spirit bath.
然后，当孩子们入睡时，我开始进行灵浴仪式。
I placed the candles around the galvanized tin tub that we used for everything, filled it with kettles of hot water, and poured in the first bottle of red liquid from the box I bought.
我把蜡烛放在我们用来装所有东西的镀锌锡桶周围，装满热水，然后倒入我买的盒子里的第一瓶红色液体。
Just before I got in the tub, I arranged the white roses in front of my dead mother's picture.
就在我进入浴缸之前，我把白玫瑰放在我已故母亲的照片前。
This was to ensure her blessing and ask her to intervene on my behalf.
这是为了确保她的祝福并请她代表我进行干预。
As soon as I got in the water, I got this weird, tingly feeling.
一入水，我就有一种奇怪的、刺痛的感觉。
The shadows from the candles loomed around me like ghosts, and the water looked like blood.
蜡烛的影子像幽灵一样笼罩着我，水看起来像血。
I sat there naked and shivering by the wood stove and prayed out loud for God to send me things I associated with red.
我赤身裸体地坐在柴炉旁瑟瑟发抖，大声祈祷上帝赐予我一些与红色相关的东西。
I asked for sex, adventure, and central heat.
我要求性、冒险和集中供暖。
I also asked for red cowboy boots and a ruby ring.
我还要了红色牛仔靴和红宝石戒指。
On Monday morning, I drove to Culpepper and found the cowboy boots for $2 at the Pink Ladies Shop and the ring in a jar of buttons which they let me have for $0.25.
周一早上，我开车去卡尔佩珀，在 Pink Ladies Shop 找到了 2 美元的牛仔靴，以及一罐纽扣里的戒指，他们以 0.25 美元的价格给了我。
That night, the awful man from the flea market drove out to see me and spent the night.
那天晚上，跳蚤市场上那个可怕的男人开车来看我并过夜。
I realized my next wishes would have to be more specific.
我意识到我的下一个愿望必须更加具体。
Tuesday evening, I repeated the ritual, except the water turned blue.
周二晚上，我重复了这个仪式，只是水变成了蓝色。
I found it a harder color to match with things I needed, so I just asked for general good fortune.
我发现它的颜色很难与我需要的东西相匹配，所以我只是祈求总体好运。
Nothing special happened Wednesday, but nothing went wrong either.
周三没有什么特别的事情发生，但也没有出什么问题。
Well, it went on like that for the next 14 days.
嗯，接下来的14天都是这样。
My luck began to turn.
我的运气开始好转。
I found better clothes in the thrift shops than I'd ever found before, and made over $100 at the flea market.
我在旧货店找到了比以前更好的衣服，并在跳蚤市场赚了 100 多美元。
My landlord began to smile and wave at me when I drove past his house, and letters with small checks in them arrived at the post office.
当我开车经过房东家时，他开始微笑着向我招手，装有小支票的信件到达了邮局。
But I guess I have to get to the unbelievable part, and here's what it is.
但我想我必须到达令人难以置信的部分，这就是它的内容。
A handsome young millionaire came up to me the last day of the baths and offered me free rent in a sunny slum apartment, and $10,000 to start my own business.
洗澡的最后一天，一位英俊的年轻百万富翁向我走来，为我提供一套阳光明媚的贫民窟公寓的免费租金，并提供 10,000 美元让我开始自己的生意。
Sounds like a lie, doesn't it?
听起来像是谎言，不是吗？
I know it does, but it's true.
我知道确实如此，但这是真的。
Soon after we moved there, he fell in love with me, and we all lived together that winter, sleeping on mattresses on the floor and eating Chinese food out of cardboard containers.
我们搬到那里后不久，他就爱上了我，那个冬天我们都住在一起，睡在地板上的床垫上，吃着纸板箱里的中餐。
That was one of the happiest times in my life, though I missed certain things about living alone in the country.
那是我一生中最快乐的时光之一，尽管我怀念独自生活在乡下的某些事情。
The dark side of the magic hadn't revealed itself yet, so we blithely enjoyed our warm rooms, and I thanked Jesus every night for his blessings.
魔法的黑暗面还没有显露出来，所以我们愉快地享受着温暖的房间，我每晚都感谢耶稣的祝福。
I've heard that we punish ourselves better and more profoundly than any spirits or gods we can imagine.
我听说我们对自己的惩罚比我们能想象的任何灵魂或神都更好、更深刻。
I hope that's true.
我希望这是真的。
I hope that's true because I still feel guilty.
我希望这是真的，因为我仍然感到内疚。
Because, you see, David, the millionaire, was married, and I knew it from the very beginning.
因为，你看，百万富翁大卫已经结婚了，我从一开始就知道这一点。
He invited me to Washington, DC to have dinner with him and his wife.
他邀请我去华盛顿特区与他和他的妻子共进晚餐。
I remember everything about that night.
我记得那天晚上的一切。
I wore an antique dress, platform shoes, and three carved Bakelite bracelets.
我穿着一件古董连衣裙、厚底鞋和三个雕刻胶木手镯。
My entire outfit cost less than $10.
我的整套衣服花费不到 10 美元。
His wife had a mink coat, and long, red fingernails.
他的妻子穿着一件貂皮大衣，指甲又长又红。
I was very impressed with them both.
他们俩给我留下了深刻的印象。
They'd invited me to drive from my little house in Virginia to discuss a business deal.
他们邀请我从我在弗吉尼亚州的小房子里开车去讨论一笔生意。
He was a slum landlord.
他是一个贫民窟的房东。
She had an antique clothing store.
她有一家古董服装店。
They had discovered me selling things at the Georgetown flea market and wanted me to trade clothes for a three-room apartment in a tenement across town.
他们发现我在乔治敦跳蚤市场卖东西，并希望我用衣服换取镇另一边公寓的三居室公寓。
It seemed like a good idea to me at the time.
当时对我来说这似乎是个好主意。
So I took the place.
所以我就占了这个位置。
But things didn't really go as they were intended to.
但事情并没有真正按照他们的预期进行。
The apartment was cramped and lonely.
公寓狭小而孤独。
All the other tenants were on strike because the building was falling down.
由于大楼倒塌，所有其他租户都罢工了。
And David, the owner, wanted me to be his mistress.
店主大卫希望我成为他的情妇。
During this time, my visits to the local Haitian voodoo store became more frequent.
这段时间，我去当地海地巫毒店的次数越来越频繁。
You must understand that living in the ghetto was very different from living in any other part of town.
你必须明白，生活在贫民区与生活在城镇的任何其他地方有很大不同。
Even the grocery stores sell statues of Santa Barbara, San Lazaro, and the Virgin Mary.
甚至杂货店也出售圣巴巴拉、圣拉萨罗和圣母玛利亚的雕像。
And when one of the neighbors was found dead on the front stoop, the Jamaican woman whose son dressed like a ninja and practiced swinging his nunchucks in the hall put holy candles all around the lobby in the order of the seven African powers.
当一名邻居被发现死在门廊上时，牙买加妇女的儿子打扮得像个忍者，在大厅里练习挥舞双节棍，按照非洲七国的顺序，在大厅周围放了圣蜡烛。
We were the only white family on the block.
我们是街区里唯一的白人家庭。
It was very lonely.
非常孤独。
My only comfort was sitting in the cool, spooky Catholic church looking at the handmade doll clothes the ladies made for the statues.
我唯一的安慰就是坐在凉爽、阴森的天主教堂里，看着女士们为雕像手工制作的娃娃衣服。
And then, one full moon, I put on my black velvet dress pinned with a rhinestone dagger, wrapped a small box of jinx remover powder in a white handkerchief, and walked across town to the house where David and his wife lived.
然后，在一个满月的时候，我穿上黑色天鹅绒连衣裙，别着一把莱茵石匕首，用白色手帕包裹一小盒恶咒去除粉，穿过城镇来到大卫和他妻子居住的房子。
It was not really clear to me at the time what I was up to.
当时我并不清楚自己在做什么。
I felt as if I was being guided by an unseen force, but I swear, I had no real idea what I was doing.
我感觉好像有一股看不见的力量在引导我，但我发誓，我真的不知道自己在做什么。
I took a pine branch and I put it through the mail slot.
我拿了一根松枝，把它放进了邮筒。
And then I left this little package on the stoop, said a few magic words, and ran.
然后我把这个小包裹放在门廊上，说了几句神奇的话，然后就跑了。
The next morning, when David came out to get the paper, he found the stick and the spell.
第二天早上，当大卫出来拿纸时，他发现了那根棍子和咒语。
His wife asked him to go buy half and half for their coffee because they were having weekend guests.
他的妻子让他去买一半的咖啡，因为他们周末有客人。
David says he doesn't really know why he decided to go to the little tienda by my house, but when he got there, he decided to come see me.
大卫说他真的不知道为什么他决定去我家旁边的小天达，但当他到达那里时，他决定来看我。
Until that moment, neither one of us had felt anything for the other.
在那一刻之前，我们谁都对对方没有任何感觉。
When I opened the door, he was standing there crying.
当我打开门时，他站在那儿哭。
He said he loved me and couldn't live without me.
他说他爱我，没有我就活不下去。
I said the same thing, and he never went back home.
我也说了同样的话，他就再也没有回家。
His wife sued him for $1 million, all the furniture, and the Mercedes.
他的妻子起诉他，要求赔偿 100 万美元、所有家具和奔驰车。
She won, but I got him.
她赢了，但我抓住了他。
It took me years to figure out how to get away.
我花了很多年才弄清楚如何逃脱。
It's true that I loved him for a while, or at least I thought I did.
确实，我曾经爱过他一段时间，或者至少我自以为是。
But looking back on it, I realize I had been alone so long that I would have probably thought I was in love with anybody who took care of me.
但回想起来，我意识到我已经独自一人太久了，以至于我可能以为我爱上了任何照顾我的人。
I remember when he bought me this Diana Ross song, "I Know I'll Never Love This Way Again." I'd play that before he came over and dance around the house and try to get in the mood.
我记得他给我买了这首戴安娜·罗斯的歌曲“我知道我再也不会这样爱了”。在他过来之前我会弹奏那首曲子，在房子里跳舞，试图进入状态。
Then my brother was found half-dead of a barbiturate overdose in the woods of West Virginia on a commune, and he came to live with us.
然后我的兄弟被发现在西弗吉尼亚州森林里的一个公社里因服用过量巴比妥而半死不活，他就来和我们住在一起。
Four people in a three-room apartment.
四个人住在一个三居室的公寓里。
One thing led to another, and David took us all under his wing.
一件事接一件事，大卫把我们所有人都置于他的保护之下。
Michael tried to kill himself two more times.
迈克尔又两次试图自杀。
Christmas came and went.
圣诞节来了又去了。
David gave me $40 a week and took me out to dinner, which sometimes cost three times that.
大卫每周给我 40 美元，并带我出去吃饭，有时花费是这个的三倍。
I felt like I was El Salvador and David was America.
我觉得我是萨尔瓦多，大卫是美国。
I used to scream and cry and beg him to let me go.
我常常尖叫、哭泣并求他放我走。
One of the neighbors put it into words very well when he carved "landlord's whore" on my front door.
一位邻居在我的前门上刻了“房东的妓女”，这句话说得很好。
I refused to let David have it painted over.
我拒绝让大卫把它涂掉。
It was true.
这是真的。
There are only two kinds of frenzy that take all my reason away.
只有两种疯狂可以夺走我所有的理智。
One is the frenzy of love, one is the frenzy of needing money.
一种是对爱情的疯狂，一种是对金钱的疯狂。
It got to the point where I was in a constant frenzy.
到了我一直处于疯狂状态的地步。
I needed a lawyer and a psychiatrist.
我需要一名律师和一名精神科医生。
My cripple brother moved across the street to another hot slum apartment and lived with a black woman named May.
我的瘸腿兄弟搬到街对面另一套炎热的贫民窟公寓，和一位名叫梅的黑人妇女住在一起。
They fought over money, other men, his leaving his clothes on the floor for her to pick up, et cetera.
他们为金钱、其他男人、他把衣服留在地板上让她捡起来等等而争吵。
She was very beautiful, like Diana Ross, but she stayed drunk on straight gin and watched soap operas all day.
她很漂亮，就像戴安娜·罗斯一样，但她喝着杜松子酒喝醉了，整天看肥皂剧。
David gave him $200 a week to live on.
大卫每周给他 200 美元来维持生活。
It was part of our understanding even though we never discussed it.
尽管我们从未讨论过，但这是我们理解的一部分。
I knew that my staying with him kept my brother from another suicide attempt.
我知道我和他在一起可以防止我哥哥再次自杀。
The money gave us all a false sense of security, but the thought of it being taken away haunted us constantly.
这笔钱给了我们所有人一种虚假的安全感，但钱被拿走的念头一直萦绕在我们心头。
I was 30 years old.
那年我30岁了。
The children were eight and four.
孩子们分别是八岁和四岁。
My brother was 24.
我弟弟24岁。
And David was 33 and already a millionaire.
大卫 33 岁了，已经是百万富翁了。
Then one hot night in June, I began to break all the windows in the apartment with my bare hands.
然后在六月的一个炎热的夜晚，我开始徒手打破公寓里所有的窗户。
I began to scream out the window that this is what happened to a woman when she had to sell her body to pay the rent.
我开始向窗外尖叫，这就是一个女人不得不出卖自己的身体来支付房租时所发生的事情。
David tried to hold me down and cover my mouth, but I broke away and ran down three flights of stairs screaming.
大卫试图按住我并捂住我的嘴，但我挣脱了，尖叫着跑下三层楼梯。
When I got out on the cement steps, he and his brother caught me again.
当我下了水泥台阶时，他和他的兄弟又抓住了我。
But before they realized what was happening, I ripped my dress in two and stood there naked and yelling, "Take it, take it.
但在他们意识到发生了什么之前，我把衣服撕成两半，赤身裸体地站在那里大喊：“拿走它，拿走它。
This is all you want.
这就是你想要的。
This is what you pay for, my body, not me, just this body." His brother slapped me in the face and they drug me naked up the cement stairs, scraping the skin off my back.
这就是你付出的代价，我的身体，不是我，只是这个身体。”他的兄弟打了我一巴掌，然后他们把我赤裸着走上了水泥楼梯，刮掉了我背上的皮肤。
I don't remember too much after that, but nothing really changed.
之后我不记得太多了，但没有什么真正改变。
We went on living there.
我们继续住在那里。
My brother went on living across the street.
我哥哥继续住在街对面。
Two years later, he finally did kill himself by jumping out the window.
两年后，他终于跳窗自杀了。
I kept his remains in the kitchen cabinet for a long time.
我把他的遗体放在厨房的橱柜里很长时间了。
But it took me seven years to get rid of David.
但我花了七年时间才摆脱大卫。
Ronald Reagan was up for a second term that year, and he was invited to the inaugural ball.
那一年，罗纳德·里根即将连任，他被邀请参加就职舞会。
David wanted me to go, too.
大卫也想让我去。
Now, I do know people who would be delighted to go to the inaugural ball just to see what it's like.
现在，我确实认识一些人，他们会很高兴去参加就职舞会，只是为了看看它是什么样子。
But I was so superstitious, I was sure God would strike me dead for hobnobbing with the richest and meanest congregation on Earth.
但我太迷信了，我确信上帝会因为我与地球上最富有和最卑鄙的会众交往而把我打死。
So I went back to the voodoo lady.
于是我又回到巫毒女士身边。
She told me what to do.
她告诉我该怎么做。
First I had to take an apple and cut out its core.
首先，我必须拿一个苹果，切掉它的核。
Then I was to write my problem on a piece of paper and put it inside.
然后我要把我的问题写在一张纸上并把它放进去。
Then I had to wrap the apple with a black ribbon while I chanted, bind him, bind him, take away his power and set me free.
然后我必须一边念诵一边用黑丝带把苹果包起来，绑住他，绑住他，夺走他的力量，让我自由。
And then, on the first night of the new moon, I buried the apple in the nuns' graveyard behind the Sacred Heart Church.
然后，在新月的第一个晚上，我把苹果埋在圣心教堂后面修女们的墓地里。
The next day, the children and I drove to Cincinnati where an old Hell's Angel friend of mine ran a tattoo parlor.
第二天，我和孩子们开车去了辛辛那提，我的一位地狱天使老朋友在那里经营一家纹身店。
I got him to put a big red heart and dagger up high on my bicep.
我让他把一颗大红心和匕首高高地放在我的二头肌上。
I knew no good Republican man would ever want to be seen with me again.
我知道没有一个好的共和党人愿意再次见到我。
And you know what?
你知道吗？
He didn't.
他没有。
The truth is that like any other Third World country that tries to cut itself off from America too quickly, our economy has never recovered.
事实是，就像任何其他试图过快与美国断绝关系的第三世界国家一样，我们的经济从未复苏。
And that's why tonight by the full moon, I have returned to the bar where we first made our fateful bargain to beg him for enough money to pay the rent.
这就是为什么今晚满月时，我回到了我们第一次进行致命交易的酒吧，乞求他给足够的钱来支付房租。
They say that once you start messing with the occult, you're forever in its debt.
他们说，一旦你开始搞乱神秘学，你就永远欠它的债。
Carmen Delzell lives in Buda, Texas.
卡门·德尔泽尔住在德克萨斯州布达。
She just opened a vintage clothing store called Lucky Day.
她刚刚开了一家名为 Lucky Day 的复古服装店。
Act Five, First Contact.
第五幕，第一次接触。
You know, there's been so many retellings of the Faust story-- Marlowe, Goethe, Sayers, Thomas Mann, there are various versions of the opera Faust-- but only one person, as far as we can determine, only one person has attempted to tell the story of the devil coming to Earth to steal someone's soul as a children's story.
要知道，《浮士德》的故事有很多的重述——马洛、歌德、塞耶斯、托马斯·曼，歌剧《浮士德》有各种版本——但只有一个人，据我们所知，只有一个人试图把魔鬼来到地球窃取某人灵魂的故事作为儿童故事来讲述。
That person is Daniel Pinkwater, and he has agreed to read his book Devil in the Drain, to end our program today.
那个人就是丹尼尔·平克沃特（Daniel Pinkwater），他同意阅读他的书《下水道里的魔鬼》（Devil in the Drain），以结束我们今天的节目。
I knew that the devil lived inside our plumbing.
我知道魔鬼住在我们的管道里。
I could hear him making noises, especially down the drain of the kitchen sink.
我能听到他发出声音，尤其是厨房水槽下水道的声音。
Sometimes, I would look into the drainpipe with a flashlight and try to see him.
有时，我会用手电筒往排水管里看，想看看他。
Finally, I caught a glimpse of something down there.
终于，我瞥见了下面的东西。
"Hey," I said, "are you the devil?"
“嘿，”我说，“你是魔鬼吗？”
"What if I am?" A voice from down the drain answered.
“如果我是呢？”一个来自下水道的声音回答了。
"I just want to know, that's all," I said.
“我只是想知道，仅此而已，”我说。
"I don't have to tell you anything," the voice said.
“我不需要告诉你任何事，”那个声音说道。
"Come up here so I can see you," I said.
“过来一下，这样我就能看到你了，”我说。
"Oh no, you'll turn on the water as soon as I get there, and get me all wet."
“哦不，我一到你就把水打开，把我全身都湿透了。”
"Well, that's what I would do."
“嗯，这就是我会做的。”
"You are the devil, aren't you?"
“你就是恶魔，不是吗？”
"Yes." "I'd really like to have a look at you.
“是的。” “我真的很想看看你。
If I absolutely promise not to turn on the water, will you come up so I can see you?"
如果我绝对保证不开水的话，你能上来让我看看吗？”
"I just do.
“我就是这么做。
Come on up.
上来吧。
I won't hurt you.
我不会伤害你。
Besides, there are those little bar things across the drain.
此外，下水道对面还有那些酒吧里的小东西。
I couldn't get at you if I wanted to."
如果我想的话，我也无法接近你。”
"I'm not afraid of you.
“我不怕你。
I'm the devil."
我是恶魔。”
"Then come up and let me see."
“那你上来让我看看。”
"All right, but if you turn on the water, I'll do some pretty bad things to you."
“好吧，但是如果你打开水，我会对你做一些非常糟糕的事情。”
"You're really suspicious," I said.
“你真的很可疑，”我说。
"You would be too if you were me," the devil said.
“如果你是我，你也会这样的，”魔鬼说。
His voice sounded closer.
他的声音听起来更近了。
"Are you coming up?" I asked down the drain.
“你上来吗？”我问了下水道。
"Yes, I'm coming," the devil said.
“是的，我来了，”魔鬼说。
"And don't say it's my fault if you get scared to death."
“如果你吓死了，别说是我的错。”
I could see the devil climbing up the drain.
我可以看到魔鬼爬上排水沟。
He was pretty small.
他很小。
He wasn't any bigger than the goldfish I had lost down that drain once when I was changing the water in the fishbowl.
他并不比我有一次在给鱼缸换水时掉进下水道的金鱼大。
The devil got up to the little crossed bars.
魔鬼走到那些交叉的小栅栏前。
He had a face that reminded me of the fish, and he was almost the same color.
他的脸让我想起了鱼，而且颜色也几乎一样。
"Well, here I am," the devil said.
“好吧，我在这里，”魔鬼说。
"You're terrified, right?"
“你很害怕，对吧？”
"Do you remember when I lost my fish down this drain?" I asked.
“你还记得我把鱼丢进下水道的时候吗？”我问。
"Sure I do," the devil said.
“我当然愿意，”魔鬼说。
"You murdered him."
“你谋杀了他。”
"I did not.
“我没有。
It was an accident."
这是一次意外。”
"Sure it was," the devil said.
“当然是这样，”魔鬼说。
"Poor fish, he probably trusted you."
“可怜的鱼，他可能信任你。”
"The water overflowed, and he got sloshed out of the bowl and down the drain," I said.
“水溢出了，他从碗里溅到了下水道里，”我说。
"I don't think he was smart enough to trust me or not trust me.
“我认为他不够聪明，无法信任我或不信任我。
Fish are dumb."
鱼都是笨蛋。”
"That's right," the devil said.
“没错，”魔鬼说。
"Tell yourself that.
“告诉自己吧。
I heard him crying for help.
我听到他大声呼救。
You didn't even care."
你甚至都不在乎。”
"I did care," I said.
“我确实在乎，”我说。
"But I didn't kill him on purpose."
“但我不是故意杀他的。”
"But you admit you killed him."
“但你承认你杀了他。”
"Is that what you do?" I asked.
“你就是这么做的吗？”我问。
"What?" "Try to make people feel bad about things they can't help?"
“什么？” “试图让人们对他们无能为力的事情感到难过？”
"It's one of the things I do," the devil said.
“这是我所做的事情之一，”魔鬼说。
"Now admit it, you feel pretty horrible about killing that fish, right?"
“现在承认吧，杀死那条鱼你感觉很糟糕，对吧？”
"I didn't kill him," I said, "and to tell the truth, I don't feel that bad about it.
“我没有杀他，”我说，“说实话，我并没有为此感到难过。
I'm sorry it happened, but it wasn't my fault."
我很抱歉发生了这样的事，但这不是我的错。”
"I'm getting bored talking about your stupid fish," the devil said.
“我厌倦了谈论你那条愚蠢的鱼，”魔鬼说。
"How come you haven't mentioned how frightening I am, and at the same time, sort of fascinating?"
“你怎么没有提到我有多么可怕，同时又有点迷人？”
"You look a little like a fish," I said.
“你看起来有点像一条鱼，”我说。
"How come you live in the plumbing?"
“你怎么住在水管里？”
"Again with the fish," the devil said.
“又是鱼，”魔鬼说。
"I live in the plumbing because I can do whatever I please."
“我住在管道里，因为我可以做任何我想做的事。”
"I'm as big as I need to be," the devil said.
“我已经足够大了，”魔鬼说。
"Now how about you getting me a pretzel?
“现在你给我一个椒盐卷饼怎么样？
Do you have any of those skinny salty ones?"
你有那种薄薄的咸的吗？”
I got the devil a pretzel.
我给魔鬼买了一个椒盐卷饼。
I pushed it down the drain.
我把它推入下水道。
He ate it.
他吃了它。
"That was lousy," he said.
“那太糟糕了，”他说。
"I know you only got it for me because you're so frightened of me."
“我知道你只是为了我才得到它，因为你太害怕我了。”
"Look," I said, "I got you the pretzel because you asked for it.
“听着，”我说，“我给你买了椒盐卷饼，因为你要它。
You want another pretzel, I'll get you another pretzel.
你想要另一个椒盐卷饼，我再给你一个椒盐卷饼。
I happen to be a good-natured kid, and I'm not in the least afraid of you."
我倒是个心地善良的孩子，一点也不怕你。”
"Do what?" "Yes, I do want another pretzel."
“做什么？” “是的，我确实想要另一个椒盐卷饼。”
"I'll get it." "Ha, the kid's terrified," the devil said to himself.
“我去拿。” “哈，这孩子吓坏了。”魔鬼自言自语道。
I heard him say it.
我听到他这么说。
"That does it," I said.
“就是这样，”我说。
I turned on both taps, hot and cold.
我打开了两个水龙头，冷热的。
"Hey, no fair," the devil shouted.
“嘿，这不公平，”魔鬼喊道。
"Too bad," I said.
“太糟糕了，”我说。
I heard the devil shouting and gurgling a long way down the drain pipe.
我听到恶魔在排水管里很远的地方大喊大叫，发出咕噜声。
He was really mad.
他真的很生气。
"That was a rotten trick," he shouted.
“这是一个糟糕的把戏，”他喊道。
"You ought to be ashamed."
“你应该感到羞耻。”
"I'm not," I said.
“我不是，”我说。
Ira Glass Daniel Pinkwater's book, Devil in the Drain, has been banned by children's libraries all over America.
艾拉·格拉斯·丹尼尔·平克沃特的书《下水道里的恶魔》已被美国各地的儿童图书馆禁止。
Really.
真的。
Well, our program was produced today by Nancy Updike, Alix Spiegel, Peter Clowney, and myself.
嗯，我们今天的节目是由南希·厄普代克、阿利克斯·斯皮格尔、彼得·克劳尼和我自己制作的。
Contributing editors, Paul Tough, Jack Hit, and Margy Rochlin.
特约编辑 Paul Tough、Jack Hit 和 Margy Rochlin。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] If you'd like a copy of our program, call us at 312-832-3380 here in Chicago at WBEZ.
[致谢] 如果您想要一份我们的计划副本，请致电 312-832-3380 芝加哥 WBEZ。
Our email address, [email protected] .
我们的电子邮件地址，[电子邮件受保护]。
[FUNDING CREDITS] I'm Ira Glass.
[资金来源] 我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。