425: Slow To React - This American Life
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00:00 00:00 Transcript Share This American Life Life Partners How to Listen Episodes Recommended About Overview Staff Announcements Fellowships Jobs Music Make Radio On The Road FAQ Submissions Merch Contact Us Our Other Shows Merch Follow Us Life Partners Subscribe to our newsletter Full episode Toggle Audio and Transcript Sync Transcript | Episode #425 | March 9, 2012 425: Slow To React Note: This American Life is produced for the ear and designed to be heard.
00:00 00:00 文字记录 分享此 美国生活 生活伙伴 如何收听 剧集 推荐 关于 概述 员工公告 奖学金 工作 音乐 在路上制作电台 常见问题解答 提交 商品 联系我们 我们的其他节目 商品 关注我们 生活伙伴 订阅我们的时事通讯 整集 切换音频和文字记录同步 文字记录 | 内容第 425 集 | 2012 年 3 月 9 日 425：反应缓慢 注意：《美国生活》是为耳朵而制作的，旨在让人们听到。
If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page.
如果可以的话，我们强烈建议您收听音频，其中包括页面上没有的情感和重点。
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
文字记录是使用语音识别软件和人工转录员结合生成的，可能包含错误。
Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
请在印刷版引用前检查相应的音频。
Prologue Ira Glass Hey everybody, Ira Glass here.
序言 Ira Glass 大家好，我是 Ira Glass。
Today on the radio show we have stories about people who are very, very amazingly slow to react in life-changing situations.
今天在广播节目中，我们讲述了一些人在改变生活的情况下反应非常非常缓慢的故事。
And to kick off the show we considered all kinds of ideas, but in the end I think there was really only one real possibility.
为了开始这个节目，我们考虑了各种各样的想法，但最终我认为实际上只有一种真正的可能性。
Like the rest of America, we, at This American Life are not tired yet of those stories of women who have no idea that they're pregnant, and then poof!
和美国其他地方一样，我们《This American Life》还没有厌倦那些女性不知道自己怀孕了，然后噗的故事！
One day, a baby pops out.
有一天，一个婴儿突然出现。
We are not over that.
我们还没有结束。
And yes, the TV I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant is in production for its fourth season right now.
是的，电视剧《我不知道我怀孕了》目前正在制作第四季。
We still have questions.
我们还有疑问。
And that's what a lot of people, they look at me like, no way.
很多人就是这样看我的，没门。
You really didn't know?
你真的不知道吗？
And I'm like, no, really.
我想，不，真的。
I really had no idea.
我真的不知道。
And I had no thought of it.
我没有想到这一点。
I mean I'm a bright girl.
我的意思是我是一个聪明的女孩。
I have two degrees.
我有两个学位。
I work full-time.
我全职工作。
I'm not like some dummy.
我不像某个假人。
Meet Jennifer Lyne.
认识詹妮弗·莱恩。
Or maybe you've already met her on I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant .
或者也许您已经在《我不知道我怀孕了》中见过她。
Or this week on The View .
或者本周的《观点》。
She was 28, working two jobs-- one as a lab technician, one in a clothing store-- when she discovered that she was pregnant.
当她发现自己怀孕时，28 岁，同时打着两份工作——一份是实验室技术员，一份是服装店。
Turned out to be nine months pregnant.
原来已经怀孕九个月了。
She had a baby three days later.
三天后她生下了孩子。
She said she didn't suspect for a bunch of reasons.
她说她出于多种原因没有怀疑。
For one, she was on the pill the entire pregnancy.
其一，她在整个怀孕期间都在服用避孕药。
And I had taken two pregnancy tests over the course of the nine months and both tests came back negative.
在这九个月的时间里，我做了两次妊娠测试，两次测试结果均为阴性。
So near the end of the pregnancy, in almost the ninth month, I finally complained to the doctor and he sent me up for an ultrasound.
所以在怀孕快结束的时候，差不多是第九个月，我终于向医生抱怨了，他让我去做超声波检查。
He questioned if I could be pregnant.
他问我是否可以怀孕。
And I explained that no, I was on the pill, and that I hadn't had a period for almost a year.
我解释说，不，我正在服用避孕药，而且我已经快一年没有来月经了。
Because when I switched from the previous birth control, which was the depro shot and went onto the birth control pill, the period stopped.
因为当我从之前的避孕药（即去孕酮注射剂）改用避孕药时，月经就停止了。
And what was the thing, when you went to the doctor, like what did you think was going on?
当你去看医生时，你认为发生了什么？
I honestly thought I had a tumor.
老实说，我以为我得了肿瘤。
I couldn't sleep on my stomach.
我无法趴着睡觉。
That was my complaint for going to the doctor was because I couldn't sleep comfortably anymore.
我对去看医生的抱怨是因为我再也睡不着了。
And I kind of felt around on my stomach because I was an EMT previously.
我有点感觉胃部不适，因为我以前是一名急救人员。
So I kind of felt something wasn't right, but I didn't know what exactly.
所以我总觉得有些不对劲，但又不知道到底哪里不对劲。
So you thought like you had like cancer or something?
所以你认为你得了癌症之类的吗？
Yes, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Ira Glass Now when we talked about having you come in for an interview in our story meeting at our radio show, the women on the radio show staff said, we have questions for her.
艾拉·格拉斯（Ira Glass）现在，当我们在广播节目的故事会议上谈到让你接受采访时，广播节目中的女性工作人员说，我们有问题要问她。
And so four of them are with me here and I want to introduce you.
其中四位和我在一起，我想向你们介绍一下。
There's Julie Snyder and Jane Feltes and Robyn Semien and Alissa Shipp.
其中包括朱莉·斯奈德、简·费尔特斯、罗宾·塞米恩和艾丽莎·希普。
[INTERPOSING VOICES] Ira Glass And Alissa, you are huge right now.
[插话] Ira Glass 和 Alissa，你们现在很棒。
How many months are you?
你几个月了？
I am 38 weeks pregnant.
我怀孕38周了。
Yeah, like eight and a half, nine months pregnant.
是的，怀孕八个半九个月了。
So they all have a bunch of questions for you.
所以他们都有很多问题要问你。
Is it OK that they throw those at you?
他们向你扔那些东西可以吗？
Of course.
当然。
Yeah, absolutely.
是的，绝对是。
Alissa Shipp The first question that I had, and maybe it's because I am so pregnant right now, but the thing that I can't understand not feeling is the kicking.
艾丽莎·希普（Alissa Shipp）：我的第一个问题，也许是因为我现在怀孕了，但我无法理解没有感觉的是踢。
And it's not just kicking, it's like you can see an arm or you can feel something and it moves.
这不仅仅是踢，就像你可以看到一只手臂，或者你可以感觉到什么东西，它会移动。
Did you feel any of that?
你有这样的感觉吗？
I don't think my daughter moved a lot.
我不认为我女儿搬家太多。
I think she stayed very stationary.
我认为她保持着非常静止的状态。
Now, mind you, my daughter was 4 pounds 13 ounces.
现在，请注意，我女儿的体重为 4 磅 13 盎司。
So she was very, very tiny.
所以她非常非常小。
So I think that has a lot to do with how much I may have felt because she was so small.
所以我认为这与我的感受有很大关系，因为她太小了。
Jennifer, are you kind of big?
詹妮弗，你很大吗？
I don't know how else to ask that.
我不知道还能怎么问这个问题。
I'm not big now.
我现在还没大。
I was actually a 22/24 when I did have my daughter.
当我有了女儿时，我实际上是一个 22/24 的人。
So I was quite big.
所以我的体型还是蛮大的。
I actually worked in a plus size women's store called Lane Bryant.
事实上，我在一家名为 Lane Bryant 的大码女装店工作。
I was always large like that.
我一直都是那么大。
Now I've actually lost a lot of weight and I'm down to a size four or a six.
现在我的体重实际上减轻了很多，尺码减至四号或六号。
[INTERPOSING VOICES] Jennifer Lyne And she was my reason for losing that weight.
[插话] Jennifer Lyne 她是我减肥的原因。
The surprise of having a baby, and now I'm like, oh my God.
有了孩子的惊喜，现在我想，天哪。
I'm this huge woman.
我就是这个伟大的女人。
How am I going to take care of my kid?
我该如何照顾我的孩子？
I need to be around for my daughter.
我需要在我女儿身边。
But then basically in the end, you were kind of only aware of being pregnant-- your pregnancy lasted like three days.
但基本上到最后，你只知道自己怀孕了——你的怀孕持续了大约三天。
Three whole days.
整整三天。
Exactly.
确切地。
Isn't that the greatest?
这不是最伟大的吗？
[INTERPOSING VOICES] Jennifer Lyne Everyone says, well, you had the best pregnancy.
[插话]詹妮弗·莱恩 每个人都说，好吧，你怀孕得最好。
You knew for three days.
三天你就知道了。
And I said, exactly.
我说，完全正确。
You know what I did those three days?
你知道我这三天做了什么吗？
I milked it.
我挤奶了。
There were many more questions and to summarize the answers-- no, she was never nauseated.
还有很多问题，总结一下答案——不，她从来没有感到恶心。
No, her hair did not fall out.
不，她的头发没有掉。
No, her breasts did not seem to get bigger.
不，她的胸部似乎并没有变大。
Yes, her ankles did swell up.
是的，她的脚踝确实肿了。
And yes, she was incredibly exhausted.
是的，她非常疲惫。
And the exhaustion, in fact, made her wonder if she was pregnant.
事实上，这种疲惫让她怀疑自己是否怀孕了。
But then the pregnancy test told her no, she wasn't.
但后来妊娠测试告诉她不，她没有。
So she dropped the idea.
于是她放弃了这个想法。
Wait, were you aware of like the I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant phenomenon.
等等，你是否意识到“我不知道我怀孕了”这种现象？
But like, before you became part of it?
但就像，在你成为其中的一部分之前？
Oh you did?
哦，你做到了？
Jennifer Lyne I actually used to watch the show.
詹妮弗·莱恩 我实际上曾经看过这个节目。
And then when it happened to me, I would discuss it with my girlfriends at work.
当这件事发生在我身上时，我会在工作中和我的女朋友讨论这件事。
They said, oh, you should apply for the show.
他们说，哦，你应该申请参加这个节目。
And I said, really?
我说，真的吗？
they're like, yeah.
他们就像，是的。
But when you saw that TV show before it happened to you, did you feel the same way that most people feel when they hear about you?
但是，当您在这件事发生之前观看该电视节目时，您是否有与大多数人听说您时的感受相同的感觉？
Like, oh come on, you must have known?
就像，哦，拜托，你一定知道吗？
Some of those stories I feel like come on, how could you have not known.
有些故事我觉得来了，你怎么可能不知道。
Especially women that have already had kids.
尤其是已经生过孩子的女性。
I know.
我知道。
Jennifer Lyne Those are where I feel like, come on, how could you have not known, you've already gone through this.
詹妮弗·莱恩：这些就是我的感觉，拜托，你怎么可能不知道，你已经经历过这些了。
Did friends of yours, after you had the baby, did they say, like, oh, we thought you might be pregnant?
在你生完孩子后，你的朋友们有没有说，哦，我们以为你可能怀孕了？
The only people that actually mentioned a little something along those lines were the women that I worked with at the plus size store.
唯一真正提到过一些类似内容的人是我在大码商店共事过的女性。
And they said, well, you know, we kind of noticed you were kind of getting a little rounder around the middle.
他们说，好吧，你知道，我们注意到你的中间有点圆了。
And I was like, oh.
我当时想，哦。
And I kind of looked at them and I said, well, why didn't you say anything?
我看着他们，然后说，好吧，你为什么什么也不说？
And you know how most women look at you like, well, I'm not going to say that to you.
你知道大多数女人怎么看你，好吧，我不会对你这么说。
Come on.
快点。
You're like, in the future, just ask every woman who you might suspect.
你就像，在未来，只要问每个你可能怀疑的女人。
Exactly.
确切地。
Alissa Shipp In case she doesn't know.
艾丽莎·希普（Alissa Shipp），以防她不知道。
Yes, America, if you take just one thing away from today's radio program, I hope that that is it.
是的，美国，如果你从今天的广播节目中只拿走一件事，我希望就是这样。
If you see a woman who gets a little heavier, always, always be sure to ask her if she's pregnant.
如果你看到一个女人体重增加了一点，一定要问她是否怀孕了。
Because she might not know.
因为她可能不知道。
Jennifer is not apparently typical of most women who discover they're pregnant at the very end of their pregnancies.
詹妮弗显然不是大多数在怀孕末期发现自己怀孕的女性的典型。
I talked to a psychiatrist who specializes in cases related to OB/GYN issues named Nehama Dresner.
我采访了一位专门研究妇产科问题相关案例的精神科医生，名叫 Nehama Dresner。
She's in Chicago.
她在芝加哥。
She says she sees three or four women every year who give birth to a baby and then claim they had no idea they were pregnant.
她说，她每年都会看到三四名妇女生下孩子后声称她们不知道自己怀孕了。
She says generally it is not women who suspect it and took pregnancy tests like Jennifer.
她说，一般来说，不会有像詹妮弗那样怀疑这一点并进行妊娠测试的女性。
She said usually it's adolescents who just don't want to believe they're pregnant for all the reasons that you pretty much expect.
她说，通常青少年只是因为你所期望的所有原因而不愿意相信自己怀孕了。
And that people are interested in these stories because in the end, a baby pops out.
人们对这些故事感兴趣是因为最后生下了一个婴儿。
It's pretty dramatic.
这非常具有戏剧性。
Dr. Dresner says this kind of thing happens all the time in medicine.
德雷斯纳博士说，这种事情在医学上经常发生。
People choose to ignore, they rationalize, all kinds of changes happening in their bodies.
人们选择忽视，他们合理化说，他们身体中发生的各种变化。
Even big ones.
即使是大的。
The things that I think strike us, as physicians, are the masses, the tumors that are so obvious, or the sore that won't heal, or that mole that looks like the state of Arkansas.
我认为，作为医生，让我们印象深刻的是肿块、如此明显的肿瘤、无法愈合的疮，或者看起来像阿肯色州的痣。
You know, things that are obviously not right that either the patient thinks it'll go away, or minimizes what it might mean, or is so afraid of what it might mean that they avoid diagnosis and treatment.
你知道，那些明显不对劲的事情，要么患者认为它会消失，要么最小化它可能意味着什么，要么非常害怕它可能意味着什么，从而避免诊断和治疗。
People who get a call back from their gynecologists office that they have an abnormal pap smear and don't ever call back to follow up.
人们接到妇科医生办公室的电话，得知自己的子宫颈抹片检查结果异常，却从不回电话进行随访。
Wait, wait, wait.
等等，等等，等等。
But that can't happen very often.
但这种情况不会经常发生。
About 30% of the time.
大约30%的时间。
About 30% of the time, don't call back.
大约 30% 的情况下，不会回电。
Wait, the doctor's calling to say that the pap smear--
等等，医生打电话来说子宫颈抹片检查——
You have an abnormal pap smear, you need to come back in for me to--
你的子宫颈抹片检查结果异常，你需要回来让我--
Right.
对。
Ira Glass But the people took the test to find out this result.
Ira Glass 但人们参加测试是为了找出这个结果。
Yes.
是的。
I mean it's sort of like an annual exam that you have.
我的意思是，这有点像你的年度考试。
It's hard to believe.
很难相信。
You're asking me how to understand something that's irrational.
你问我如何理解一些不合理的事情。
I can't answer that question for you.
我无法回答你这个问题。
And if people are this way with their own bodies, with things that are sometimes so dangerous to them, what other things are they putting off way too long?
如果人们这样对待自己的身体，对待有时对他们来说非常危险的事情，那么还有什么事情是他们拖延得太久的呢？
Well today on our show, we have three very dramatic examples of what else, including a guy who ends up waiting 17 years before finally marrying the woman he loves.
今天在我们的节目中，我们有三个非常戏剧性的例子，其中包括一个男人等待了 17 年才终于娶到了他所爱的女人。
From WBEZ Chicago it's This American Life distributed by Public Radio International.
芝加哥 WBEZ 的《This American Life》由国际公共广播电台发行。
We have amazing stories today of people sidestepping huge, life-changing experiences that they just are not ready to deal with.
今天我们有一些令人惊奇的故事，人们回避了巨大的、改变生活的经历，而他们只是没有准备好应对这些经历。
Until finally, they are.
直到最后，他们都是这样。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Stay with us.
留在我们身边。
Act One, When I Grow Up.
第一幕，当我长大了。
Back in 2004, a reporter named David Holthouse published this remarkable story in the weekly paper that he worked for back then called Westword.
早在 2004 年，一位名叫大卫·霍尔特豪斯 (David Holthouse) 的记者在他当时工作的《Westword》周报上发表了这篇非凡的故事。
It's about something that he had waited his entire life to do since childhood.
这是他从小到大都在等待做的事情。
But I want to warn anybody listening now with children, we actually don't believe this story is suitable for children.
但我想警告现在有孩子的人，我们实际上不认为这个故事适合儿童。
There's nothing graphic in it, but the things that it's about are not right for kids we think.
里面没有任何图形，但它所涉及的内容不适合我们认为的孩子。
So this is going to take about 20 minutes.
所以这大约需要 20 分钟。
We're putting this on the radio because David take us inside the head of somebody, himself actually, who's contemplating things that he admits later are completely reprehensible and wrong.
我们把这个放在广播里是因为大卫带我们进入了一个人的头脑，实际上是他自己，他正在思考一些他后来承认是完全应受谴责和错误的事情。
And he explains how he got to that point.
他解释了他是如何走到这一步的。
And then even more unusual, how he was able to snap out of it.
更不寻常的是，他是如何摆脱困境的。
So kids, good bye.
那么孩子们，再见。
And here's David Holthouse.
这是大卫·霍尔特豪斯的报道。
This time last year I was plotting to kill a man.
去年的这个时候，我正密谋谋杀一个人。
This time last year I had a gun, and a silencer, and a plan.
去年的这个时候，我有一把枪、一个消音器和一个计划。
I had staked out the man's tract home in the Denver suburbs.
我已经在丹佛郊区标定了这个人的家。
I had followed him to and from his job in a high tech office park.
我跟随他在高科技办公园区上下班。
I was confident I would get away with murder because there was nothing in recent history to connect me to him.
我确信我会逃脱谋杀罪，因为近代历史上没有任何东西可以将我和他联系起来。
Homicide investigators look for motive and mine was buried 25 years in the past.
凶杀案调查人员正在寻找动机，我的尸体已于 25 年前被埋葬。
The man I was going to kill was the one who raped me in 1978 when I was 7 years old.
我要杀的那个人是 1978 年强奸我的那个人，当时我才 7 岁。
When I was 7, I had a crush on Princess Leia and wanted to be a member of the rock band Kiss when I grew up.
当我七岁的时候，我迷上了莱娅公主，并想长大后成为摇滚乐队 Kiss 的成员。
I was in the second grade and a cop dressed up like a bloodhound wearing a trench coat and calling himself McGruff came to my school and warned us all to watch out for strange men in cars offering candy.
我当时上二年级，一名警察穿着风衣，打扮得像猎犬，自称麦格鲁夫，来到我的学校，警告我们所有人要小心车里提供糖果的陌生人。
But McGruff didn't say anything about watching out for the son of my mom and dad's best friends.
但麦格鲁夫没有说要照顾我妈妈和爸爸最好朋友的儿子。
He was 15 and a star high school athlete.
他当时 15 岁，是一名明星高中运动员。
He wrestled and played football.
他摔跤、踢足球。
The paper ran a profile of him in the sports section and my mom cut it out and stuck it on our refrigerator.
报纸在体育版块刊登了他的简介，我妈妈把它剪下来贴在我们的冰箱上。
I looked up to him.
我仰望他。
I thought he was super cool.
我觉得他超级酷。
One night his parents had my parents over for dinner, and he asked me if I wanted to go to his bedroom in the basement and play with his karate stuff.
一天晚上，他的父母请我的父母过来吃晚饭，他问我是否想去他地下室的卧室玩他的空手道东西。
We snuck off together and once he had me alone inside his room, the door closed, he got out his karate stuff, throwing stars and nunchucks and a curved sword.
我们一起偷偷溜走，当他把我单独留在他的房间里时，门关上了，他拿出了空手道的东西，扔了星星、双节棍和一把弯剑。
And we started playing.
我们开始玩。
He did not play nice.
他打得不好。
He spun the nunchucks inches from my face and hurled the throwing stars into the wall next to me.
他把双截棍旋转到离我脸几英寸的地方，然后把飞镖扔到我旁边的墙上。
I didn't know what was going on, but I knew it was bad, so I started crying.
我不知道发生了什么事，但我知道这很糟糕，所以我开始哭。
And he told me to shut up.
他让我闭嘴。
Then he started chasing me around the room waving the sword.
然后他开始挥舞着剑在房间里追我。
He put the blade to my throat and backed me into a corner where I dropped into a crouch and cowered.
他把刀片架在我的喉咙上，把我推到一个角落里，我蹲了下来，瑟瑟发抖。
The term child molestation doesn't begin to describe what happened next.
猥亵儿童一词并不能描述接下来发生的事情。
When I think child molestation, I think inappropriate touching.
当我想到猥亵儿童时，我就会想到不恰当的触摸。
I think fondling.
我认为抚摸。
What happened next wasn't fondling.
接下来发生的事情并不是抚摸。
It was rape.
这是强奸。
He started off by telling me he'd cut my face with the sword if I didn't do what he wanted.
他一开始就告诉我，如果我不按他的意愿行事，他就会用剑割伤我的脸。
I had no words for what was happening, no concept of rape or sex.
我对所发生的事情无话可说，对强奸或性也没有概念。
I just knew that I was terrified and in pain.
我只知道我很害怕，很痛苦。
When he was done with me he said that if I told my parents, or his parents, or anyone else, that my mom and dad would be very angry with me, because I'd done a bad thing.
当他处理完我后，他说如果我告诉我的父母，或者他的父母，或者其他任何人，我的父母会对我非常生气，因为我做了一件坏事。
He said if I told on him he'd come to my house in the middle of the night and gut me like a salmon.
他说如果我告发他，他就会半夜来到我家，像剖开鲑鱼一样剖开我的内脏。
Then he opened his door.
然后他打开了门。
He told me not to go back upstairs right away and sat me down in front of a TV in the downstairs family room, and had me play Atari until my tears dried and I was more presentable.
他告诉我不要马上回楼上，并让我坐在楼下家庭活动室的电视机前，让我玩雅达利，直到我的眼泪流干，我变得更体面为止。
When I was seven, I no longer believed in the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.
当我七岁时，我不再相信复活节兔子或牙仙子。
But from that night on, I had no such doubts about the bogeyman.
但从那天晚上开始，我对那个妖怪就不再有这样的怀疑了。
He only got me that once, or at least only once when I was conscious.
他只得到了我一次，或者至少只有一次当我有意识的时候。
There was one night two or three months later when my parents were hosting a holiday party and they took me to his house so he could babysit me and his little sister.
两三个月后的一个晚上，我的父母正在举办一个节日聚会，他们带我去他家，这样他就可以照顾我和他的小妹妹。
He put on the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack and we played disco, which consisted of all of us getting drunk on straight, warm, hard booze while he watched his little sister and me gyrate to "Stayin' Alive" thereby securing my lifelong hatred of the Bee Gees.
他放了《周六夜狂热》的配乐，我们玩迪斯科，我们所有人都喝醉了，而他看着他的妹妹和我旋转着“活着”，从而确保了我对比吉斯乐队的终生仇恨。
I don't remember the rest of that night, just waking up the next morning with my first hangover.
我不记得那天晚上剩下的事情，只是第二天早上醒来时我第一次宿醉。
I made sure he never got me alone again for more than a few minutes, which wasn't easy, because our parents socialized almost every weekend at either their house or ours.
我确保他再也不会让我单独呆超过几分钟，这并不容易，因为我们的父母几乎每个周末都会在他们家或我们家进行社交活动。
And he didn't move out or go to college after high school.
高中毕业后他没有搬出去，也没有上大学。
He turned into one of those guys who still dates high school chicks and lives with his parents well into his 20s.
他变成了那些在 20 多岁时仍然与高中女生约会并与父母住在一起的人之一。
I kept our little secret throughout my childhood.
我整个童年都保守着我们的小秘密。
At first, I was scared and ashamed and believed his threats.
起初，我感到害怕和羞愧，并相信了他的威胁。
By the time I was a teenager and understood what he'd done to me in his room, it just seemed easier to keep my mouth shut.
当我十几岁的时候，明白了他在房间里对我做了什么，我似乎更容易闭嘴了。
Why make a fuss?
何必大惊小怪呢？
Why traumatize my parents?
为什么要伤害我的父母？
And why risk being viewed as damaged goods?
为什么要冒着被视为损坏货物的风险呢？
My memories of him in those early years are scattershot.
我对他早年的记忆是零散的。
One 4 of July he told me how much fun he'd just had torturing a cat with a firecracker.
7 月 4 日，他告诉我他刚刚用鞭炮折磨一只猫是多么有趣。
And I remember for years after the rape, whenever he and I were in the same room and no one was looking, he would make an obscene gesture and give me a bogeyman smile.
我记得强奸案发生后的很多年里，每当他和我在同一个房间里，没有人看的时候，他就会做出一个猥亵的手势，并对我露出一个恶魔般的微笑。
A smile that said, "I got more of this for you, you little 8, 9, 10 year old punk."
笑容仿佛在说：“我为你准备了更多这样的东西，你这个 8、9、10 岁的小混混。”
The last time I ran into him was 12 years ago when I was 21.
我最后一次见到他是12年前，当时我21岁。
I was back home from college between my sophomore and junior years, and I needed a cheap suit for a job interview.
我在大二和大三之间从大学回到家，我需要一套便宜的西装来参加工作面试。
And there he was.
他就在那里。
A 31-year-old cheap suit salesman and rapist of children.
一名 31 岁的廉价西装推销员和儿童强奸犯。
I hadn't seen him in six or seven years and I immediately realized two things.
我已经有六七年没见到他了，我立刻意识到两件事。
The first, was that he was no longer bigger than me.
首先，他不再比我大了。
I had 6 inches and at least 30 pounds on him.
我比他高 6 英寸，重至少 30 磅。
The second thing I realized was that I wanted to kill him.
我意识到的第二件事是我想杀了他。
I wanted to grab a coatrack and bash in his head.
我真想抓起衣帽架砸他的头。
Snatch that metal ball point pen out of his cheap suit jacket and stab him in the eye, over and over again.
从他便宜的西装外套里抓起那支金属圆珠笔，一遍又一遍地刺进他的眼睛。
But I did nothing.
但我什么也没做。
My mother was with me and even more than I wanted revenge, I want to prevent her and my father from finding out that he had raped me when I was seven years old, while they were upstairs with his parents drinking wine and playing board games.
我的母亲和我在一起，比我想要报仇更重要的是，我不想让她和我的父亲发现我七岁时他强奸了我，当时他们和他的父母在楼上喝酒玩棋盘游戏。
I didn't want to burden them with that.
我不想给他们增加负担。
I didn't want to tarnish their memories of my childhood.
我不想玷污他们对我童年的记忆。
The bogeyman gave a weak smile and made small talk with my mom while I was pretending to look at cuff links on the other side of the store.
当我假装看商店另一边的袖扣时，怪物露出虚弱的微笑并与我妈妈闲聊。
Then he vanished into a break room after passing us off to another salesman.
然后他把我们交给另一位推销员后就消失在休息室里。
He wanted no part of me anymore.
他不再想要我的一部分了。
The memory of being raped when I was seven was never repressed.
我七岁时被强奸的记忆从未被压抑。
It was not recovered under hypnosis.
在催眠状态下并未恢复。
It has always been with me, festering.
它一直伴随着我，溃烂。
When I was a teenager, I began researching how being raped as a child might affect the development of my personality, and I recoiled in horror.
当我十几岁的时候，我开始研究小时候被强奸会如何影响我的性格发展，我惊恐地退缩了。
Every study I read supported the vicious cycle theory, that victims of pedophilia are more likely to become pedophiles themselves.
我读到的每一项研究都支持恶性循环理论，即恋童癖的受害者自己更有可能成为恋童癖者。
I felt like a werewolf had bitten me, and it was only a matter of time before the full moon rose.
我感觉就像狼人咬了我一样，满月升起只是时间问题。
Throughout my early adolescence, I was constantly, tortuously checking myself for evil impulses.
在我的青春期早期，我不断地、曲折地检查自己是否有邪恶的冲动。
I made a blood oath with myself that if I started feeling the desire to rape children I would kill myself and make it look like a mountaineering accident.
我向自己发誓，如果我开始有强奸孩子的欲望，我会自杀，让这看起来像一次登山事故。
I was already in the habit of solo rock climbing.
我已经养成了独自攀岩的习惯。
No partners, no ropes, despite my parents' repeated warnings against such a dangerous activity.
没有伙伴，没有绳索，尽管我的父母一再警告不要进行这种危险的活动。
Had I throw myself down a mountain they would have believed it.
如果我从山上跳下去，他们也会相信的。
And better a son who died climbing than one who lived and rape kids.
一个在攀登中死去的儿子比一个活着并强奸孩子的儿子更好。
The next death I plotted was his, the boogeyman's.
我策划的下一个死亡就是他的，那个妖怪的。
After I moved to Denver three years ago I learned from my parents that he also lived in the area.
三年前我搬到丹佛后，我从父母那里得知他也住在该地区。
I became fixated on the idea that he was raping children nearby and that it was up to me to stop him.
我开始执着于他在附近强奸儿童的想法，而我必须阻止他。
I had no evidence, but authorities agree that most pedophiles begin molesting when they're teenagers and most of them never stop.
我没有证据，但当局同意大多数恋童癖者在青少年时期就开始猥亵，而且大多数人从未停止过。
Not even after they're caught.
即使他们被抓住之后也不会。
If they're caught.
如果他们被抓住了。
My guy has never been caught.
我的家伙从来没有被抓过。
According to a 1998 Colorado Bureau of Investigation polygraph study of convicted child molesters, the mean number of victims per molester, at least in this state, is 184.
根据 1998 年科罗拉多州调查局对被定罪的儿童猥亵者进行的测谎研究，至少在该州，每个猥亵者的平均受害者人数为 184 人。
And that's only for the molesters who've been arrested.
这仅适用于已被捕的性骚扰者。
All my adult life I'd been aware that he was, in all likelihood, still raping children.
在我的成年生活中，我一直意识到他很可能仍在强奸儿童。
But as long as he was doing it far away, I had felt no compulsion to do anything about it.
但只要他在很远的地方这样做，我就没有必要采取任何行动。
But once I found out he was here and living nearby, I began to agonize over my failure to stop him.
但当我发现他就在这里并且住在附近时，我开始为自己未能阻止他而苦恼。
I considered going to the police, but I had no evidence except my memories, and the statute of limitations has long run out for the crime he committed with me.
我想过报警，但除了我的记忆，我没有任何证据，而且他和我一起犯下的罪行早已过了诉讼时效。
I thought about placing subtle advertisements in newspapers.
我考虑过在报纸上刊登微妙的广告。
I thought about sending anonymous letters to everyone he knows, his ex-wives and everyone in this new neighborhood in Colorado, warning them and begging them to please come forward if they knew or suspected anything.
我想过给他认识的每个人、他的前妻以及科罗拉多州这个新社区的每个人发匿名信，警告他们并恳求他们如果知道或怀疑任何事情请站出来。
But I was afraid such measures would somehow lead to my parents finding out.
但我担心这些措施会以某种方式让我的父母发现。
And the cold, hard truth is that I just didn't want them to know.
冷酷无情的事实是我只是不想让他们知道。
My parents are retired, and in their 60s, and they didn't need that.
我的父母退休了，六十多岁了，他们不需要这个。
I wanted to protect them more than I wanted to protect children I'd never met.
我想保护他们胜过保护我从未见过的孩子。
The more I obsessed on it, the more I came to the seemingly inescapable conclusion that the best way to make sure he never raped another child, to make sure I had my revenge, was to kill him.
我越是着迷于此，我就越得出一个看似不可避免的结论：确保他永远不会强奸另一个孩子、确保我报仇的最好方法就是杀了他。
To just walk right up to him in a secluded place and scrape him from this world like a piece of dog [BLEEP] off my shoe.
在一个僻静的地方径直走向他，把他从这个世界上刮下来，就像一块狗[哔]从我的鞋子上刮下来。
I bought the gun last April.
我去年四月买了这把枪。
I had a few firearms in my closet already, but they'd all been purchased legally in my name from a licensed firearm's dealer.
我的衣柜里已经有几把枪了，但它们都是以我的名义从有执照的枪械经销商那里合法购买的。
I make my living as a reporter.
我以记者为生。
My assignments at the time routinely brought me into contact and sometimes friendship with unsavory characters, including the leaders of a street gang.
我当时的任务经常让我与一些令人厌恶的人物接触，有时甚至与他们建立友谊，其中包括街头帮派的头目。
So I went to their barrio where I bought a Beretta 9 millimeter with a homemade silencer and the serial number removed.
所以我去了他们的街区，在那里我买了一把伯莱塔9毫米手枪，配有自制的消音器，序列号被去掉了。
I took this gun to the local garage gunsmith and had him put dozens of deep nicks and grooves in the Beretta's barrel to corrupt ballistics tests.
我把这把枪带到当地的车库枪匠那里，让他在伯莱塔枪管上刻了几十个深刻痕和凹槽，以破坏弹道测试。
After testing the gun and silencer in the desert, I put them in storage and kept scheming.
在沙漠里测试完枪和消音器后，我把它们收起来，继续谋划。
It seemed insane to me now that I was actually going to kill a man instead of just bringing out in the open what he had done to me.
现在我觉得我真的很疯狂，我实际上要杀了一个人，而不是公开他对我所做的一切。
But that's how kiddie rapers get away with it.
但这就是强奸儿童的人逃脱惩罚的方式。
They depend upon shame and embarrassment to keep their victims quiet.
他们依靠羞耻和尴尬来让受害者保持安静。
By the time I was an adult, I feared that if my friends knew my secret they wouldn't trust me around their children.
当我成年时，我担心如果我的朋友知道我的秘密，他们就不会在他们的孩子身边信任我。
And parents need to be watchful.
父母需要保持警惕。
The commonly accepted estimate among law enforcement and sexual abuse treatment specialists in Colorado is that 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men who live in this state were either molested or raped before the age of 18.
科罗拉多州执法和性虐待治疗专家普遍接受的估计是，生活在该州的四分之一的女性和六分之一的男性在 18 岁之前遭到过猥亵或强奸。
Most of them by men or teenage boys they knew.
其中大多数是他们认识的男性或十几岁的男孩。
By coaches, scout masters, priests, family friends, sons of family friends.
由教练、球探大师、牧师、家人朋友、家人朋友的儿子组成。
So this time last year I was plotting to kill a man, and I was telling myself that it was noble.
所以去年的这个时候，我密谋杀死一个人，我告诉自己这是高尚的。
I was doing it to protect the children.
我这样做是为了保护孩子们。
But really, more than anything else, I think I just wanted to shoot the son of a bitch.
但实际上，最重要的是，我想我只是想射杀这个王八蛋。
And I believe I would have, taking a second deep and dirty secret with me to the grave.
我相信我会这么做，将第二个深刻而肮脏的秘密带入坟墓。
But then my parents found out just in time to prevent me from committing first degree murder.
但后来我的父母及时发现了，阻止了我犯下一级谋杀罪。
If you have a secret you want to keep, never write it down.
如果你有一个想要保守的秘密，千万不要把它写下来。
I know that now, but I didn't when I was 10, the summer between fourth and fifth grade when I sat down with a pen and my Garfield the cat diary.
我现在知道了，但当我十岁的时候，四五年级的夏天，我拿着笔和我的加菲猫日记坐下来。
The entry is dated June 1981.
该条目的日期为 1981 年 6 月。
And while I have no memory of writing it, the penmanship is unmistakably my own.
虽然我不记得写过它，但它的笔迹毫无疑问是我自己的。
There, between accounts of my grandfather dying and a game winning double I hit in little league, is an account of my being raped three years before.
在那里，在我祖父去世的叙述和我在少年棒球联盟中打出两分制胜的叙述之间，是我三年前被强奸的叙述。
I concluded the entry by wondering what I would do if I ever met the man who had raped me on the street once I myself was a grown man.
在这篇文章的最后，我想知道，当我自己成年后，如果我遇到那个在街上强奸我的男人，我会怎么做。
Will I smile and shake his hand and pretend nothing happened?
我会微笑着握着他的手，假装什么都没发生吗？
I wrote.
我写。
Or will I punch him in the face?
或者我会打他的脸吗？
Last September my mom and dad decided to spend part of Labor Day weekend going through the cabinets in my old bedroom and box up all my childhood stuff for attic storage.
去年九月，我的妈妈和爸爸决定利用劳动节周末的一部分时间来检查我旧卧室的橱柜，并将我所有童年的东西装进阁楼储藏室。
My mom found the diary and read it.
我妈妈找到了日记并读了它。
She told my dad.
她告诉我爸爸。
I received a frantic message from her on my voice mail saying I needed to call home right away.
我的语音信箱里收到了她发来的一条疯狂的信息，说我需要立即打电话回家。
They told me about finding the diary.
他们告诉我找到日记的事。
Then my mom asked in a shaking voice if it was true.
然后我妈妈用颤抖的声音问这是不是真的。
Had I had any warning, I would have lied.
如果我有任何警告，我就会撒谎。
But I was not prepared, and so I told the truth.
但我没有准备好，所以我说了实话。
My mom started crying, and I said I'd fly home as soon as I could.
我妈妈开始哭泣，我说我会尽快飞回家。
I'd scheduled the murder by then, giving myself a 72-hour window immediately before I was to leave on a two-week trip to Mexico in late December.
我已经在那时安排了谋杀案，在 12 月底前往墨西哥进行为期两周的旅行之前，给自己留出了 72 小时的时间。
My plan was to shoot him, ditch the gun, then fly out of the country and keep my ear to the ground from afar just in case.
我的计划是开枪射杀他，扔掉枪，然后飞出这个国家，并从远处密切关注地面，以防万一。
There's an ill-kept baseball field near his house where I was going to stalk him on a late-night walk.
他家附近有一个管理不善的棒球场，我打算在那里跟踪他深夜散步。
It's a good place for a killing in the suburbs.
郊区是个杀人的好地方。
Quiet, usually empty, and hundreds of yards from the closest house on its far side.
安静，通常空无一人，距离远端最近的房子有数百码。
But now, because of my parents, I called off my plan.
但现在，因为父母的缘故，我取消了计划。
The truth was now out.
现在真相大白了。
It was my mother who let it out.
是我妈妈放出来的。
She called the boogeyman's parents who now live in the Midwest.
她给现在住在中西部的妖怪父母打了电话。
She started off by saying that what she was about to tell them would be difficult for them to hear, but for the sake of their grandchildren they should listen.
她一开始就说，她要告诉他们的话，他们可能很难听懂，但为了他们的孙子，他们应该听。
The bogeyman has children of his own now, as well as stepchildren.
这个妖怪现在有了自己的孩子，还有继子。
She told them that their son had violently raped me in the fall of 1978.
她告诉他们，他们的儿子在 1978 年秋天暴力强奸了我。
She told him that he had used a knife.
她告诉他他用了刀。
She told them that the typical number of victims for a pedophile his age is well over a hundred.
她告诉他们，与他同龄的恋童癖受害者的典型受害者人数远远超过一百人。
She told them that she regretted finding out what their son had done to me, but now that she had she felt that they had to know as well.
她告诉他们，她很遗憾发现他们的儿子对我做了什么，但现在她知道了，她觉得他们也必须知道。
She told them that she wished them to have good lives, but to never contact her or my father again.
她告诉他们，她希望他们过上美好的生活，但永远不要再联系她或我的父亲。
No Christmas cards, nothing.
没有圣诞贺卡，什么都没有。
She told them she hoped their son eventually got caught and spent the rest of his life getting raped in prison.
她告诉他们，她希望他们的儿子最终被抓住，并在监狱里被强奸度过余生。
Then she hung up.
然后她就挂了电话。
By then, I'd begun writing about how I was sexually assaulted as a child, all the while knowing that I would never get to the bottom of it and really understand what had happened if I did not at least try to confront the bogeyman.
那时，我已经开始写自己小时候如何被性侵犯的故事，同时我也知道，如果我不尝试去面对这个怪物，我就永远无法查清真相，也无法真正理解发生了什么。
I was a lot more comfortable with the concept of shooting him in the head than I was with talking to him on the phone, let alone in person.
我对朝他的头部开枪的想法比在电话里和他交谈要舒服得多，更不用说当面了。
On May 5, I finally sent two copies of the same letter to his house.
5月5日，我终于将同一封信的两份寄到了他家。
One by overnight Airborne Express, one by registered mail.
一份是隔夜空运快递，一份是挂号信。
It began, "Remember me?
开头是：“还记得我吗？
Our parents were good friends.
我们的父母是好朋友。
I remember my childhood years very, very well.
我非常非常清楚地记得我的童年时光。
Especially a certain night when I was seven, when your parents had my family over for dinner and you and I went down to your bedroom to play with your karate stuff.
尤其是我七岁的某个晚上，你的父母邀请我的家人过来吃晚饭，你和我去你的卧室玩空手道的东西。
I kept what you did to me a secret for 25 years.
你对我所做的事我保守了25年。
It's time for you and I to talk this over.
是时候你和我来谈谈这件事了。
I suggest a meeting in public, anywhere in the Denver metro as soon as possible.
我建议尽快在丹佛地铁的任何地方举行公开会议。
"If seeing me face-to-face is too uncomfortable for you, then at least call me.
“如果面对面见到我让你觉得太不舒服，那么至少给我打电话。
Simply ignoring this letter is not going to work.
简单地忽略这封信是行不通的。
If I don't hear from you by Friday late afternoon, I'll start calling your house, and then knocking on your front door.
如果周五下午晚些时候我还没有收到你的消息，我会开始打电话给你家，然后敲你的前门。
I want to be perfectly clear here, I'm not threatening you with any physical harm, and I'm not hinting at blackmail.
我想在这里完全清楚地表明，我并不是以任何身体伤害来威胁你，也不是暗示要敲诈勒索。
I don't want your blood or your money, just one uncomfortable conversation."
我不想要你的血，也不想要你的钱，只是一场不舒服的谈话。”
He received the letters and phoned me all in the same day.
他在同一天收到了这些信并给我打电话。
I told him that I appreciated his calling me and that I was surprised he had.
我告诉他，我很感激他给我打电话，而且我很惊讶他给我打电话。
"Well," he said, "it's a call I should have made a long time ago."
“好吧，”他说，“我早就应该打这个电话了。”
I was stunned because from his words and tone of voice it sounded like he was going to actually admit what he'd done when I knew that almost all pedophiles deny, deny, deny until the day they die.
我很震惊，因为从他的话语和语气来看，他似乎真的要承认自己所做的事情，而我知道几乎所有恋童癖者都否认、否认、否认，直到他们死去的那一天。
We arranged to meet at 2:00 pm the following afternoon at a Cracker Barrel near his house.
我们约好第二天下午 2:00 在他家附近的饼干桶见面。
"Is there anything you want to say to me now?" I asked.
“你现在有什么话想对我说吗？”我问。
"Just that I'm deeply sorry," he said.
“只是我深感抱歉，”他说。
"I've thought a hundred times about contacting you in the last 20 years to tell you that, but I just never had the courage to pick up the phone.
“在过去的20年里，我想过一百次要联系你来告诉你这些，但我一直没有勇气拿起电话。
I'm sorry for the pain I've caused you, and my parents, and your parents."
我对给你、我的父母和你的父母带来的痛苦感到抱歉。”
He sounded sincere, well rehearsed.
他听起来很真诚，排练得很好。
The next day, an hour before we were supposed to meet, I changed the location from a chain restaurant in suburbia to the intersection of the 16th Street Mall and Market Street in downtown Denver.
第二天，也就是我们见面的前一个小时，我把地点从郊区的一家连锁餐厅换到了丹佛市中心第 16 街购物中心和市场街的交叉口。
He showed up wearing jeans, a grey t-shirt, and a Colorado Avalanche cap.
他穿着牛仔裤、灰色 T 恤，戴着科罗拉多雪崩队帽子。
When I saw him standing on the corner anxiously trying to pick me out of the crowd, I realized the moment I had written about in my diary in 1981 had arrived.
当我看到他站在街角焦急地试图把我从人群中找出来时，我意识到我在1981年日记中所写的那一刻已经到来了。
We were both grown men and I was meeting him on the street.
我们都是成年人，我在街上遇见了他。
I didn't punch him in the face.
我没有打他的脸。
I did shake his hand.
我确实握了他的手。
But neither of us pretended that nothing had happened.
但我们谁都没有假装什么都没发生过。
We were afraid of one another.
我们彼此害怕。
I was so jacked up on adrenaline I was shaking.
我肾上腺素激增，浑身发抖。
He was sweating like he'd just run a mile.
他满头大汗，就像刚跑了一英里一样。
"Nervous," he said.
“紧张，”他说。
I nodded.
我点点头。
"Me too," he said.
“我也是，”他说。
We walked around the block, and he started by telling me that he'd been waiting for me to contact him for several weeks.
我们绕着街区走了一圈，他首先告诉我，他已经等我联系他好几个星期了。
Soon after my mom had called his parents in March, he said, they'd flown to Colorado and confronted him.
他说，我妈妈三月份给他父母打电话后不久，他们就飞往科罗拉多州与他对峙。
He told me that he'd admitted he had raped me to both his parents and his wife.
他告诉我，他向他的父母和妻子承认他强奸了我。
"My mom got extremely emotional and didn't handle it well at all.
“我妈妈非常情绪化，根本处理不好。
And my dad just went quiet and became very stoic," he said.
我父亲就变得沉默寡言，变得非常坚忍，”他说。
"They've sort of written me off since then.
“从那时起，他们就已经把我排除在外了。
They used to call me every week, but they don't call me anymore.
他们以前每周都会给我打电话，但现在不再给我打电话了。
Even though I told them it had only happened with you that once."
尽管我告诉他们这种事只发生在你身上一次。”
He made this claim repeatedly during our conversation, working it into his response to nearly every question I asked.
在我们的谈话中，他反复强调这一点，并将其融入到他对我提出的几乎每个问题的回答中。
He only had one victim-- me.
他只有一个受害者——我。
He had not sexually assaulted any other child before or since.
在此之前或之后，他没有对任何其他儿童进行过性侵犯。
We sat on the mall's stone stools and kept talking, our voices low.
我们坐在商场的石凳上，低声说话。
Both of us looking around to make sure no one was in ear shot.
我们俩环顾四周，确保没有人在耳边。
I asked him how his wife had reacted.
我问他妻子的反应如何。
"She was concerned, obviously," he said.
“显然，她很担心，”他说。
"She wanted to know right away if our son was safe, and I told her, yes, he is."
“她想立即知道我们的儿子是否安全，我告诉她，是的，他安全了。”
Then I hit him with the question I'd always wanted to ask.
然后我向他提出了我一直想问的问题。
"Why did you do it?" He shook his head and tears welled in his eyes.
“你为什么这么做？”他摇摇头，泪水在眼眶里打转。
"I've asked myself that question over and over and over again, David.
“我一遍又一遍地问自己这个问题，大卫。
And I just don't have a good answer for you.
我只是没有一个好的答案给你。
I wish I did, but I just don't know.
我希望我能做到，但我就是不知道。
I know that until I was in my 30s, I didn't really believe other people's feelings were real.
我知道，直到我三十多岁时，我才真正相信别人的感受是真实的。
I didn't think anyone really mattered but me.
我认为除了我之外没有任何人真正重要。
Maybe that was it.
也许就是这样。
Maybe if I'd gone to therapy I could have come up with the answer.
也许如果我去接受治疗我就能找到答案。
All I can say is that I'd never done it before and I never did it again.
我只能说，我以前从未这样做过，以后也不会再这样做。
And if there was one thing I could go back in my life and change, that would be it."
如果我的生活中有一件事我可以回去并改变，那就是它了。”
I asked if his attack on me was spontaneous or planned.
我问他对我的攻击是自发的还是有计划的。
"It wasn't planned," he said, "I just acted on this one weird impulse.
“这不是计划好的，”他说，“我只是出于一种奇怪的冲动而采取了行动。
As soon it was over, I was, thinking, oh my God.
比赛一结束，我就想，天啊。
That's my little sister's friend.
那是我妹妹的朋友。
How could I have just done that?"
我刚才怎么可以这么做呢？”
He said he'd wanted to apologize to me for many years but hadn't sought me out because he didn't want to reopen old wounds and because he hoped I'd forgotten it had ever happened.
他说他多年来一直想向我道歉，但没有找到我，因为他不想重新揭开旧伤，也因为他希望我忘记这件事曾经发生过。
"My biggest fear was that I had ruined your life," he said.
“我最担心的是我毁了你的生活，”他说。
"I was afraid that you would turn out to be a homeless drug addict or something, and it would all be my fault."
“我担心你会变成一个无家可归的吸毒者什么的，而这一切都是我的错。”
I told him that while I wasn't I street junkie, I did have a tremendous fear of becoming a father.
我告诉他，虽然我不是街头迷，但我确实非常害怕成为一名父亲。
Because I didn't believe I'd be able to protect my child from people like him.
因为我不相信我能够保护我的孩子免受像他这样的人的侵害。
Becoming a father had changed his life, he told me.
他告诉我，成为一名父亲改变了他的生活。
"I found what love really means," he said.
“我找到了爱的真正含义，”他说。
"I used to think that love meant you just really liked somebody a whole lot.
“我曾经认为爱意味着你真的非常喜欢某个人。
But when you become a father, you really understand what love is."
但当你成为父亲后，你才真正明白什么是爱。”
I asked what he would do if he found out that someone had raped his son.
我问他如果发现有人强奸了他的儿子，他会怎么做？
He said, "I'd probably rip their head off."
他说：“我可能会把他们的头扯下来。”
There's a scene in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly where the gunfighter played by Eli Wallach righteously blows away a guy and then drops this pearl of murderous wisdom.
《黄金三镖客》中有一个场景，由伊莱·瓦拉赫饰演的枪手正义地炸飞了一个人，然后丢下了这颗杀人智慧的珍珠。
"If you going to shoot, shoot.
“如果你要开枪，那就开枪吧。
Don't talk.
别说话。
Because if you let them talk, you may not shoot."
因为如果你让他们说话，你就可能不会开枪。”
And sure enough, as soon as I exchanged a few sentences with him, I didn't want to shoot him at all.
果然，我一和他交流了几句话，我就根本不想开枪了。
Because I saw him as a frightened, damaged man.
因为我认为他是一个受到惊吓、受伤的人。
He wasn't the bogeyman any more, he was real.
他不再是妖怪，他是真实的。
He begged my forgiveness.
他请求我的原谅。
He swore I was the only one.
他发誓只有我一个人。
All the experts say he was almost certainly lying.
所有专家都说他几乎肯定在撒谎。
But then all the experts say it was extremely unusual for him to admit his crime to me, let alone his wife and parents.
但后来所有的专家都说他向我承认自己的罪行是极其不寻常的，更不用说他的妻子和父母了。
And he did at least make the admission to his parents.
他至少向父母承认了这一点。
I checked.
我查了一下。
I did not grow up in a religious household, but he did.
我并不是在一个有宗教信仰的家庭中长大的，但他却是。
Talking to him on the mall, I thought of this passage from Romans.
在商场里和他聊天时，我想起了罗马书中的这段话。
"Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath.
“不要报复，我的朋友们，而是为上帝的愤怒留出空间。
for it is written, It is mine to avenge.
因为经上记着：报仇是我的。
I will repay."
我会报答的。”
When I had nothing else to say to the man who had raped me when I was seven, we parted ways.
当我对七岁时强奸我的男人无话可说时，我们分道扬镳。
He blended into the crowd.
他融入了人群。
David Holthouse is a reporter now living in Alaska.
大卫·霍尔特豪斯是一名记者，现居住在阿拉斯加。
After his story was first published in 2004, his newspaper, Westword, was inundated with letters from people who had been molested as children themselves thanking him.
2004 年，他的故事首次发表后，他的报纸《Westword》就收到了大量来自童年时期曾被猥亵的人们的感谢信。
Grateful, especially for the part of the story where he shows that it's possible to let go of your anger.
很感激，尤其是故事中他表明你可以放下愤怒的部分。
So coming up, the most unromantic guy imaginable puts the rest of us to shame in the romance department.
所以接下来，你能想象到的最不浪漫的男人让我们其他人在浪漫方面感到羞愧。
That's in a minute.
就在一分钟之内。
From Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International when our program continues.
当我们的节目继续进行时，来自芝加哥公共广播电台和国际公共广播电台。
This American Life , I'm Ira Glass.
这个美国生活，我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Each week on our show, of course, we choose a theme and bring you different kinds of stories on that theme.
当然，我们的节目每周都会选择一个主题，并为您带来有关该主题的不同类型的故事。
Today's show, Slow to React.
今天的节目，反应缓慢。
Stories of people taking a very, very long time to deal with life-changing situations of one sort or another.
人们花了非常非常长的时间来处理各种改变生活的情况的故事。
We've arrived at Act Two of our show.
我们已经到了节目的第二幕了。
In this act, we turn to love.
在这个行动中，我们转向爱。
And in Sean Lewis' family, there was a legendarily romantic love story.
而在肖恩·刘易斯的家庭中，还流传着一段传奇般的浪漫爱情故事。
It's famous in his family partly because the story unfolded over decades and across continents.
这本书在他的家族中很出名，部分原因是这个故事历时数十年，横跨各大洲。
But also because nobody can quit believe, even now, that out of everybody in the family-- there are four siblings-- out of everyone in the family, the one with the epic, swoon-inducing love story is Mark.
但也因为即使是现在，仍然没有人不相信，在家里的每个人中——有四个兄弟姐妹——在家里的每个人中，拥有史诗般、令人心醉的爱情故事的人就是马克。
Mark, the one sibling who was never wild or boisterous, the one who never tried to sneak into bars at 14.
马克是唯一一个从不狂野或喧闹的兄弟姐妹，他在 14 岁时从未尝试过溜进酒吧。
Sean Lewis tells the story.
肖恩·刘易斯讲述了这个故事。
I asked my family how they would describe my uncle Mark.
我问我的家人他们会如何形容我的叔叔马克。
The word romantic did not come up.
浪漫这个词没有出现。
Spontaneous?
自发的？
I don't think-- hmm.
我不认为——嗯。
Not really.
不是真的。
If you've spoke to anybody, Mark and his plans.
如果你和任何人谈过，马克和他的计划。
There's a time we have to meet.
我们总有一天要见面的。
There's a time we have to leave.
总有一天我们必须离开。
There's a time we have to eat.
有一段时间我们必须吃饭。
My brother stands at attention on a regular basis.
我哥哥经常立正。
When we were younger and at a family event, you didn't even know he was there.
当我们年轻的时候，在一次家庭活动中，你甚至不知道他在那里。
Because no parent ever yelled his name, ever.
因为从来没有父母喊过他的名字。
None of the aunts or uncles ever had to speak to him about don't say that or don't stand that way or run that way because he always was the perfect child.
没有一个阿姨或叔叔曾对他说过“不要那样说，不要那样站，那样跑”，因为他一直是个完美的孩子。
He never said no. He never went and yelled at his parents.
他从来没有说过不。他从来没有去对他的父母大喊大叫。
He was always very adult.
他总是很成熟。
Always very adult.
总是很成熟。
This is a love story of my Uncle Mark and the women he's now married to, named Ha.
这是一个关于我的叔叔马克和他现在结婚的女人的爱情故事，名叫哈。
Right out of high school Mark joins the military.
高中一毕业，马克就参军了。
He loves it.
他喜欢它。
He's stationed in Korea as an MP.
他作为国会议员驻扎在韩国。
And one day by chance, he meets a beautiful girl in a coffee shop, Ha.
有一天偶然的机会，他在一家咖啡厅遇见了一位美丽的女孩，哈。
She's in college, waiting at the cafe with her cousin for an English tutor.
她正在上大学，和表弟一起在咖啡馆等待英语家教。
Mark asks her out, they date, they fall in love.
马克约她出去，他们约会，他们坠入爱河。
He's 20 years old.
他今年 20 岁了。
She's 23.
她23岁了。
He wants to marry her.
他想娶她。
And like a good son, he writes home about it to his mom.
就像一个好儿子一样，他写信给他的妈妈讲述这件事。
He wrote to me shortly after he was in Korea, and he said to me, "I met a girl, a beautiful girl, and I love her." And I didn't think he was long enough there to be in love with anybody.
他到韩国后不久就写信给我，他对我说：“我遇到了一个女孩，一个美丽的女孩，我爱她。”而且我认为他还没有待够长的时间来爱上任何人。
And he said, "I'm going to try bring her back to America with me." And I said, "I wouldn't do that if I were you." That's the last he ever talked to me about her.
他说：“我会试着把她带回美国。”我说：“如果我是你，我就不会那样做。”那是他最后一次跟我谈论她。
This is the first blow to his plans with Ha.
这是他与哈的计划的第一次打击。
We're a first generation Irish family, very matriarchal.
我们是第一代爱尔兰家庭，非常母权制。
And no one respects his mother more than Mark.
没有人比马克更尊重他的母亲。
He doesn't give up on bringing Ha to the US, but now he knows the family's not going to help.
他并没有放弃带哈去美国，但现在他知道家人不会提供帮助。
And then there's another complication.
还有另一个复杂的情况。
His sister, my mother, is in a crisis.
他的妹妹，也就是我的母亲，正处于危机之中。
I was going through the divorce.
我正在经历离婚。
My parents were living with me in my home, and our house was going into foreclosure.
我的父母和我一起住在我的家里，我们的房子即将丧失抵押品赎回权。
And I was working as a waitress, and my father was working as a security guard at night.
我当时是一名女服务员，而我父亲则在晚上担任保安。
And we were not making enough money to take care of the house.
而且我们没有赚到足够的钱来照顾房子。
And Mark sent us money every month to try to help us keep the house.
马克每个月都会给我们寄钱来帮助我们维持房子。
But the family's financial situation just keeps getting worse.
但家庭的经济状况却每况愈下。
And then on top of that, the military rotates Mark back to the US.
最重要的是，军方将马克轮换回美国。
They won't let him return to Korea.
他们不会让他返回韩国。
So he leaves the military and turns and all his attention to his family to help us survive.
所以他离开了军队，把所有的注意力都集中在他的家人身上，以帮助我们生存。
He moves to where we are in Denver.
他搬到了我们在丹佛的地方。
While he's caught up doing all of that, he stops writing to Ha.
当他忙着做所有这些事情时，他不再给哈写信了。
And during the time he's out of touch, Ha moves-- twice.
在他失去联系的这段时间里，哈移动了两次。
The next time he tries to reach her, he can't find her.
下次他试图联系她时，他就找不到她了。
She's gone.
她走了。
Now comes the part of the story that I'm old enough to remember.
现在是故事中我已经足够大了还记得的部分了。
The family moves to upstate New York to a very small town, Greenwood Lake, just north of the city.
全家搬到了纽约州北部的一个小镇，格林伍德湖，位于该市北部。
Mark becomes a police officer.
马克成为一名警察。
And the family tries to get him dating, but it doesn't go anywhere.
家人试图让他约会，但没有任何进展。
Like we belonged to the Irish Club.
就像我们属于爱尔兰俱乐部一样。
If there was a dance we'd invite him to come.
如果有舞会我们会邀请他来。
And he'd come, but he never would dance.
他来了，但他永远不会跳舞。
Actually, he used to do guard on the door.
事实上，他以前是守门的。
So no ruffians would get in.
这样歹徒就不会进来了。
Where there was no ruffians.
那里没有流氓。
Did anyone actually hire him to do this?
真的有人雇他来做这件事吗？
No. Sean Lewis The few women he does go out with don't last, and I could see why.
不，肖恩·刘易斯（Sean Lewis）和他一起出去的几个女人都没有长久，我明白为什么。
His idea of a good date at the time was for him to watch the movie Stripes seven times and then bring a woman to the movie and quote the whole thing to her as it's happening.
当时他对一次好的约会的想法是让他看电影《条纹》七遍，然后带一个女人去看电影，并在电影发生时向她引用整个事情。
He wanted his dates to share his love of Irish military history and his interest in naming his first child Wolfgang.
他希望他的约会对象能够分享他对爱尔兰军事历史的热爱以及他对给他的第一个孩子命名为沃尔夫冈的兴趣。
He'd lecture people about anything they were doing that seemed wrong to him.
他会对人们所做的任何在他看来是错误的事情进行教训。
He didn't smile much.
他笑得不多。
None of this went over well with the women of Greenwood Lake.
这一切都让格林伍德湖的妇女们感到不愉快。
So his social life was mostly us, his family.
所以他的社交生活主要是我们，他的家人。
When his days off, he would come.
当他休息的时候，他就会来。
All you would have to do is walk into my mother's house and smell roast beef, roast potatoes, and we knew exactly who was coming-- Mark.
你所要做的就是走进我母亲的房子，闻到烤牛肉、烤土豆的味道，我们就知道谁来了——马克。
I would say to my mother, do you know what my favorite meal is?
我会对妈妈说，你知道我最喜欢吃什么吗？
And she'd go, no. But she knew what Mark's favorite meal was.
她会走，不。但她知道马克最喜欢吃什么。
Because he was alone.
因为他孤身一人。
I think that's why.
我想这就是原因。
Because Mark was alone.
因为马克独自一人。
And she felt like he needed more of a mothering touch.
她觉得他需要更多的母爱。
And this is Mark's life for 10 years.
这就是马克10年的生活。
He dutifully supports the family by going every day to a job he doesn't like, with coworkers who despise him for being so by the book.
他尽职尽责地养家糊口，每天从事自己不喜欢的工作，而同事们则鄙视他的循规蹈矩。
He exercises.
他锻炼身体。
He goes home to his one room apartment.
他回到他的一间房间的公寓。
And on Sundays, he sees the family.
周日，他会见到家人。
And this is the Mark we think we know.
这就是我们自认为认识的马克。
Dutiful, straight-laced, family oriented.
尽职尽责，严谨，以家庭为导向。
Probably never going to get married.
可能这辈子都不会结婚了。
We have no idea that this entire time Mark is pining for Ha.
我们不知道马克一直在思念哈。
This of course, is Mark.
这当然是马克。
Mark And that was in my bureau in my bedroom every day when we were apart.
马克 当我们每天分开的时候，那东西就放在我卧室的写字台里。
I would wake up to that photo and I would go to bed looking it that photo.
我会醒来看到那张照片，然后上床睡觉时看着那张照片。
Did you think you were going to see her again?
你以为你还会再见到她吗？
I didn't really know.
我真的不知道。
I really didn't know.
我真的不知道。
And you were in Korea, and you were moving on?
你当时在韩国，然后你要继续前进吗？
Yeah, about two, three year later, I just had so much agony and so much missing, so I just feel like, oh my gosh.
是的，大约两三年后，我经历了太多的痛苦和太多的思念，所以我只是觉得，天哪。
I couldn't wait anymore.
我已经等不及了。
So I actually buried him inside my heart and slowly, I forgot him.
于是我就真的把他埋在了心里，慢慢的，我就忘记了他。
During most of these 10 years while Ha is putting Mark out of her mind, Mark is actively trying to find her.
在这十年的大部分时间里，哈一直不去想马克，而马克却在积极地寻找她。
Wrote letters.
写信了。
I put advertisements in Korean papers.
我在韩国报纸上登广告。
And nobody in our family knew you were doing this.
我们家里没人知道你在这么做。
No. That was top secret.
不，那是绝密。
Sean Lewis Did you just think that people were going to be not positive about it or give you a hard time?
肖恩·刘易斯（Sean Lewis）：你是否认为人们不会对此持积极态度，或者会给你带来困难？
I just didn't want to hear anything in reference to it.
我只是不想听到任何与它有关的内容。
I knew what I wanted to do.
我知道我想做什么。
Right.
对。
Sean Lewis Which in our family are abundant.
肖恩·刘易斯 这在我们家很丰富。
Abundant.
丰富。
Sean Lewis Finally, a letter that Mark sent out reaches Ha.
肖恩·刘易斯终于收到了马克寄出的一封信。
And six months later, Mark sees a letter back from her in his mailbox.
六个月后，马克在他的邮箱里看到了她的回信。
Were you nervous at all?
你当时紧张吗？
Mark No, I was not nervous.
马克 不，我并不紧张。
I'm amazed by this.
我对此感到惊讶。
I'm amazed that you seem so calm and confident.
我很惊讶你看起来如此平静和自信。
I would have been terrified.
我会很害怕。
I saw that letter as a way out of the state I was in.
我把那封信视为摆脱我所处状态的一条出路。
That one way or another, I was going to close a chapter of my life.
无论如何，我将结束我人生的一个篇章。
So it was about either she was going to be your wife, or at least you wouldn't have to keep pining?
所以要么她会成为你的妻子，要么至少你不必一直憔悴？
That's exactly right, Sean.
完全正确，肖恩。
It was she was going to be my wife or I was going to move on.
她要么成为我的妻子，要么我就要离开。
Mark asks Ha to come visit.
马克邀请哈来拜访。
She says she has to think about it.
她说她必须考虑一下。
She takes a year.
她需要一年的时间。
It takes about one year, because I have to think about if I start seeing him again, because I don't want to hurt anymore like before.
大约需要一年的时间，因为我必须考虑是否再次见到他，因为我不想再像以前那样受到伤害。
But I miss him.
但我想念他。
So she says, OK, I'll meet you halfway in Hawaii.
所以她说，好吧，我会在夏威夷半路上见你。
At which point Mark announces to the family out of the blue, I'm going to Hawaii to meet Ha.
就在这时，马克突然向家人宣布，我要去夏威夷见哈。
I mean I was like, what?
我的意思是我当时想，什么？
I was like, you're kidding.
我当时想，你在开玩笑吧。
He never talks about private things.
他从不谈论私人事情。
I did know about Hawaii.
我确实了解夏威夷。
And I didn't think anything would ever come of it.
我不认为这会产生任何结果。
I really didn't.
我真的没有。
Mark and Ha have a great time in Hawaii.
马克和哈在夏威夷度过了一段愉快的时光。
And right away on this first trip together, he asks her to marry him.
在第一次一起旅行时，他立即向她求婚。
But Ha, in the 10 years they've been apart, has become this powerhouse businesswoman in Korea.
但哈在他们分开的十年里，已经成为韩国的女强人。
She owns three gyms, trains people on the Korean Olympic team, has a house full of medals.
她拥有三个健身房，为韩国奥运队训练人员，有一屋子的奖牌。
She's gotten used to being single.
她已经习惯了单身。
So Mark works on her for another seven years.
于是马克又为她工作了七年。
He calls.
他打电话来。
He writes letters.
他写信。
And every six months they meet up, have a great time, and he asks her to marry him again.
他们每六个月见面一次，度过一段愉快的时光，他向她再次求婚。
The family meanwhile, still has no idea how serious the relationship is because Mark isn't telling us anything, as usual.
与此同时，家人仍然不知道这种关系有多严重，因为马克像往常一样没有告诉我们任何事情。
So the whole thing with this woman Ha whom we've never met, starts to seem like just another weird dating situation of Mark's.
所以，这个我们从未见过的女人哈的整个事情开始看起来只是马克的另一个奇怪的约会情况。
Another woman he'll see for a while, who will eventually move on.
他会见到另一个女人一段时间，但最终会继续前进。
So year seven, what changed?
那么第七年，发生了什么变化？
Ha You believe in God, right?
哈 你相信上帝，对吗？
Do I believe in God?
我相信上帝吗？
I do.
我愿意。
Ha I thought it's God work make me really quick change.
哈，我以为这是上帝的工作让我很快就改变了。
Because I was very, very sick.
因为我病得很重。
My heart is pounding.
我的心在狂跳。
It's like a double pounding, triple pounding.
就像双重冲击、三重冲击一样。
So I found out later, I have a whole check on my body, it's like I have thyroid.
所以后来我发现，我对我的身体进行了全面的检查，就像我有甲状腺一样。
And my doctor say, you cannot continue your work.
我的医生说，你不能继续你的工作。
Ha is sick for weeks, and Mark calls her every day.
哈病了好几个星期，马克每天都给她打电话。
Every day.
每天。
Sometimes twice.
有时两次。
He showed to me his love.
他向我展示了他的爱。
Before I told you it's like I cannot see his love.
在我告诉你之前，我好像看不到他的爱。
He hugs me and kisses me and he say, I love you.
他拥抱我，亲吻我，他说，我爱你。
It's not moving my heart.
却没有打动我的心。
And then, but I was sick.
然后，但我病了。
He called twice a day and how is you doing?
他一天打两次电话，你好吗？
You have to have surgery in United States.
你必须在美国做手术。
My mind start moving.
我的思绪开始转动。
You know what?
你知道吗？
He really loves me, I believe, really.
他真的很爱我，我相信，真的。
So I closed down my business, and I talked to my mom and my family.
所以我关闭了我的生意，并与我的妈妈和家人交谈。
I'm going to United States to marry.
我要去美国结婚。
18 years after Mark and Ha first met, Ha arrives in the US.
马克和 Ha 第一次见面 18 年后，Ha 抵达美国。
And two days later, she and Mark get married at the Middletown Courthouse.
两天后，她和马克在米德尔敦法院结婚。
We're all there.
我们都在那里。
Me, my mom, her brothers, my grandmother, the whole family.
我，我的妈妈，她的兄弟，我的祖母，整个家庭。
And Mark is in this tuxedo, and Ha is wearing a white dress and a Korean headpiece.
马克穿着这件燕尾服，哈穿着白色连衣裙，戴着韩国头饰。
And we're all stunned at how beautiful she is and at how happy they look together.
我们都惊讶于她的美丽以及他们在一起的幸福。
The comfortableness and the relaxed that he's with Ha is like he's with nobody else.
他和哈在一起的舒适和放松就像和其他人在一起一样。
I think my favorite moment was Mark dancing with Ha to Led Zeppelin.
我想我最喜欢的时刻是 Mark 与 Ha 一起随着 Led Zeppelin 跳舞。
Who knew?
谁知道？
I'd never seen him dance ever.
我从来没有见过他跳舞。
He danced.
他跳舞。
And not the slow dance.
而不是慢舞。
He danced to Led Zeppelin.
他跟着齐柏林飞艇跳舞。
They are very much in love.
他们非常相爱。
I know that.
我知道。
I found that out shortly after that they really are.
不久之后我发现他们确实是这样。
When you say you found that out, what was the final proof?
当你说你发现了这一点时，最终的证据是什么？
Because everything is her in his mind.
因为他心里的一切都是她。
Everything is Ha.
一切都是哈。
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思？
He can't believe he has her.
他不敢相信他拥有她。
I asked my grandmother recently if she regretted the letter she wrote after Mark and Ha first met.
我最近问我的祖母，她是否后悔马克和哈第一次见面后写的那封信。
She said yes, but she didn't know Ha at the time.
她说是的，但当时她不认识哈。
In some ways, she didn't know Mark either.
从某些方面来说，她也不认识马克。
None of us did.
我们谁也没有这么做。
He was the tortoise in a family full of hares moving so slowly amongst his siblings' marriages, divorces, career changes that to us, it looked like he was hardly moving at all.
他是一个充满兔子的家庭中的乌龟，在他的兄弟姐妹的结婚、离婚、职业转变中进展得如此缓慢，对我们来说，他看起来几乎没有动过。
But he knew exactly what race he was running.
但他清楚地知道自己正在参加什么比赛。
Sean Christopher Lewis is a playwright and a performer currently touring the country with two shows, Killadelphia and Just Kids .
肖恩·克里斯托弗·刘易斯 (Sean Christopher Lewis) 是一位剧作家和表演者，目前正在全国巡演两部剧目《Killadelphia》和《Just Kids》。
To find out when he's coming to your town, go to seanchristopherlewis.com
要了解他何时来您所在的城镇，请访问seachristopherlewis.com
[MUSIC - "WHAT IS AND WHAT SHOULD NEVER BE" BY LED ZEPPELIN]
[音乐 - LED ZEPPELIN 的“现在是什么，永远不应该是什么”]
Act Three, I'm Still Here.
第三幕，我还在这里。
Slow to react is usually kind of an insult.
反应迟缓通常是一种侮辱。
You know, it's kind of a flaw, a failing.
你知道，这是一种缺陷，一种失败。
In this next case though, the things that are slow to react are cancer cells.
但在下一个例子中，反应缓慢的是癌细胞。
And slow to react in that kind of situation is sort of how you'd want it.
在这种情况下反应缓慢正是你所希望的。
Jonathan Menjivar tells the story.
乔纳森·门吉瓦尔讲述了这个故事。
Just looking at the numbers, Katherine Russell Rich should be dead.
光看数字，凯瑟琳·拉塞尔·里奇就应该死了。
When you're diagnosed with stage IV breast cancer, the average life expectancy is two and a half years.
当您被诊断患有 IV 期乳腺癌时，平均预期寿命为两年半。
You meet women who have lived 5 or 10, but beyond that, Kathy says, there's a tiny sub-category that lives 20 or 30 years.
凯西说，你会遇到活了 5 岁或 10 岁的女性，但除此之外，还有一个很小的子类别活了 20 或 30 年。
Just 2% of all cases.
仅占所有病例的 2%。
Doctors have no idea who will end up in that sub-category.
医生不知道谁最终会属于该子类别。
Kathy's one of them.
凯西就是其中之一。
She's had cancer for 23 years, and she's lived with stage IV for 18.
她患癌症已经 23 年了，第四期已经生活了 18 年。
And just so it's clear, she's not in remission.
很明显，她的病情并未得到缓解。
The cancer has been sitting in her body, and the whole time she's been pounding it with chemicals of one sort or another.
癌症一直存在于她的体内，而她一直在用某种化学物质对其进行攻击。
When you have cancer for so long, at some point, Kathy says it's not the first thing on your mind anymore, and you've got to deal with more ordinary, uncomfortable things.
凯西说，当你患癌症这么久的时候，到了某个时候，这不再是你脑子里的第一件事了，你必须处理更普通、更不舒服的事情。
Like how you bring it up when you meet people.
就像你见面时如何提起它一样。
I lie a lot about it actually.
事实上我对此撒了很多谎。
Because not everybody needs to know my business.
因为不是每个人都需要了解我的生意。
Well let's say you and I were having lunch, and I knew it was something I was going to need to bring up at some point if we were to become friends.
好吧，假设你和我正在吃午饭，我知道如果我们要成为朋友，我需要在某个时候提出这个问题。
I think I might just say, you know, I've got this weird situation where I've had cancer for 23 years.
我想我可能只是说，你知道，我的情况很奇怪，我患癌症已有 23 年了。
And usually the person will say something like, you're kidding.
通常这个人会说，你在开玩笑吧。
What kind?
什么样的？
And then, I'll say I have this really slow-growing kind of cancer.
然后，我会说我患有这种生长缓慢的癌症。
I fall into this small sub-category of people who just live and live with the cancer.
我属于这一小类与癌症共存的人。
It just doesn't move as quickly.
它只是移动得不那么快。
It often brings out stories from them, which I like too.
它经常带出他们的故事，我也喜欢。
I like hear other people's stories.
我喜欢听别人的故事。
Not necessarily like, I've had people go, really?
不一定是这样，我已经让人走了，真的吗？
I've had fibroids for five years.
我得肌瘤已有五年了。
And then, sometimes we get off on the wrong track like that.
然后，有时我们会走上这样的错误轨道。
Wait, what are fibroids?
等等，什么是肌瘤？
Katherine Russell Rich I don't even know.
凯瑟琳·拉塞尔·里奇 我什至不知道。
But they're not in the same category as advanced cancer.
但它们与晚期癌症不属于同一类别。
But I have had that.
但我有过这样的经历。
And then you're in the position of having to hear about their fibroids.
然后你就不得不了解他们的肌瘤。
Which is not something I necessarily want to do.
这不是我一定想做的事情。
Yeah because people are just trying to connect with you in some way.
是的，因为人们只是想以某种方式与你联系。
I think in that case they just wanted to talk about their fibroids actually.
我认为在这种情况下，他们实际上只是想谈论他们的肌瘤。
OK, so I looked it up.
好的，所以我查了一下。
Fibroids are definitely unpleasant.
肌瘤绝对是令人不愉快的。
But Kathy's right, not the same territory as terminal cancer.
但凯西是对的，这与晚期癌症不在同一领域。
Anyhow, as you can imagine, in 23 years Kathy's tried pretty much every treatment there is.
不管怎样，正如你可以想象的那样，23 年来，凯西尝试了几乎所有的治疗方法。
Some stuff they don't even do any more.
有些事情他们甚至不再做。
She started with the standard chemo, radiation, and a lumpectomy to remove the tumor.
她从标准化疗、放疗和肿瘤切除术开始切除肿瘤。
After that, her first doctor actually told her she was cured.
之后，她的第一位医生实际上告诉她，她已经痊愈了。
She had a bone marrow transplant, which studies have since determined that for breast cancer isn't any more effective than conventional chemo.
她接受了骨髓移植，研究表明，对于乳腺癌来说，这种移植并不比传统化疗更有效。
She was part of a gene therapy trial.
她是基因治疗试验的一部分。
She dipped into alternative treatments, including some purple herbal drops from a cowboy in Wisconsin who told her to soak her feet in them.
她尝试了其他治疗方法，包括威斯康星州一位牛仔提供的一些紫色草药滴剂，这位牛仔告诉她将脚浸泡在其中。
She tried being vegan.
她尝试成为素食主义者。
That lasted three days.
就这样持续了三天。
She tried a macrobiotic diet.
她尝试了长寿饮食。
Same problem, too many vegetables.
同样的问题，蔬菜太多。
What's helped her most is hormone treatments.
对她最有帮助的是激素治疗。
They basically starve Kathy's cancer of the food it needs.
他们基本上让凯西的癌症缺乏所需的食物。
All those treatments mean she's a walking museum in the last couple decades of cancer treatment.
所有这些治疗意味着她是过去几十年癌症治疗的一座行走博物馆。
Yeah, when I gone on those cancer message boards, I feel like some old-timer in Appalachia.
是的，当我登上那些癌症留言板时，我感觉自己像阿巴拉契亚的一个老前辈。
Like they'll say, really, you had a bone marrow transplant?
就像他们会说的，你真的做过骨髓移植吗？
When I was first diagnosed with cancer, somebody had come out with this theory that if you put some ice helmet on your head-- they had these blue ice helmets for chemotherapy-- and you iced your head, it would somehow keep your hair from falling out.
当我第一次被诊断出患有癌症时，有人提出了这样的理论：如果你在头上戴上一些冰头盔——他们有这些蓝色冰头盔用于化疗——然后你冰镇你的头，它会以某种方式防止你的头发脱落。
I'm sorry, and what does it look like?
抱歉，它看起来怎么样？
Does it look like a series of ice packs?
它看起来像一系列的冰袋吗？
Or I guess I sort of imagine like the way that a woman looks like when they get out of the shower and wrap their hair in a towel, but made out of ice packs.
或者我想我有点想象一个女人洗完澡后用毛巾包裹头发的样子，但毛巾是用冰袋制成的。
Or is it like a football helmet?
或者它像橄榄球头盔吗？
It wasn't a football helmet.
这不是橄榄球头盔。
It was like somebody had, after a keg party, gone and gotten the remains and put it in a blue trash bag, and somehow figured out how to tape it to their head.
就好像有人在一场小桶派对之后，去拿了遗骸，把它放进一个蓝色垃圾袋里，然后想出了如何把它粘在头上的方法。
It didn't do anything for Kathy, but she's been in the cancer world long enough that there have been significant improvements in ice helmet technology.
这对凯西没有任何作用，但她在癌症领域已经呆了足够长的时间，冰盔技术已经有了显着的进步。
The Washington Post ran a story recently that quoted success rates between 76 and 90%.
《华盛顿邮报》最近发表了一篇报道，称成功率在 76% 到 90% 之间。
But for Kathy, the ice helmet was just one little funny step on her long, long breast cancer timeline.
但对于凯西来说，冰盔只是她漫长的乳腺癌时间轴上的一个有趣的小步骤。
I long ago gave up the thought of cured.
我早就放弃了治愈的念头。
Cured isn't in my vocabulary.
我的字典里没有治愈这个词。
They just keep trying to keep you alive.
他们只是不断地努力让你活下去。
And it's like you're surfing the cancer.
这就像你在癌症中冲浪一样。
You have to time when you think it's time to change treatment.
当您认为是时候改变治疗方法时，您必须及时采取措施。
We mistimed a treatment last summer and the cancer just kind of exploded in my bones.
去年夏天我们错误地进行了治疗，癌症就在我的骨头里爆发了。
It caused like nerve damage and stuff.
它造成了神经损伤之类的东西。
And now I have some trouble walking.
现在我走路有点困难。
It was the first time I'd ever seen that happen where we didn't call it at the right time, and I could see, oh yeah, this is really dangerous if you're not timing it right.
这是我第一次看到这种情况发生，我们没有在正确的时间调用它，我可以看到，哦，是的，如果你没有选择正确的时机，这真的很危险。
Kathy says she doesn't understand why doctors aren't studying her and the rest of the 2% who have survived over 20 years to figure out what makes them different.
凯西说，她不明白为什么医生不研究她和剩下的 2% 的存活了 20 多年的人，找出他们的不同之处。
She's as mystified as anyone that she's managed to live this long.
她和其他人一样对自己能活这么久感到困惑。
Being a terminal patient for 18 years, your attitude towards it evolves.
作为一名18年的绝症患者，你对它的态度发生了变化。
At some point you wake up and realize, you haven't died yet, and you have to adjust.
在某个时刻，你醒来并意识到，你还没有死，你必须适应。
Kathy remembers the day she was given her stage IV diagnosis.
凯西记得她被诊断为第四期的那天。
She had just switched oncologists, and she got a message saying she needed to come in right away.
她刚刚换了肿瘤科医生，收到一条消息说她需要立即过来。
And I went in and she said it's all through your skeleton.
我进去了，她说这都是通过你的骨架。
And I just had this sense that, shouldn't someone call the police?
我只是有一种感觉，难道不应该有人报警吗？
I mean, I'd never been in a situation when there was no one you could call where they were telling you you're going to die.
我的意思是，我从来没有遇到过这样的情况：你无法打电话给任何人，而他们却告诉你你快要死了。
And I thought, maybe I should call my parents.
我想，也许我应该给我的父母打电话。
But they couldn't do anything.
但他们却无能为力。
And the police couldn't do anything.
而警察也无能为力。
I went into this state of discordance where nothing made sense.
我陷入了这种不和谐的状态，没有任何意义。
And if something really terrible happens you can think, oh my God, I'm going to kill myself, or not necessarily seriously.
如果真的发生了可怕的事情，你可能会想，天哪，我要自杀，或者不一定是认真的。
But you can't even think that if you've just been told you have a year or two to live.
但如果你刚刚被告知你还有一两年的寿命，你甚至无法想象。
Because that's the whole problem.
因为这就是整个问题。
Your body is killing itself.
你的身体正在自杀。
So I just would go into utter blackness every night and just lie there.
所以我每天晚上都会陷入一片漆黑，躺在那里。
So I think it took me maybe 14 years to get comfortable with the fact that I was going to be here.
所以我想我大概花了 14 年的时间才接受我将来到这里的事实。
And now, how do I live a life after planning to die, and what do I do with a life now?
现在，在计划死亡之后我该如何生活？我现在该怎么办？
I have to like argue myself back into life a lot.
我必须经常说服自己回到生活中。
So what does that mean?
那么这意味着什么呢？
Does that mean your friendships have changed?
这是否意味着你们的友谊发生了变化？
Yeah.
是的。
It means I'm not feeling like there's plexiglass between me and the world, basically.
这意味着我基本上不觉得我和世界之间有有机玻璃。
And I'll try anything.
我会尝试一切。
I might not have written a book, two books now, if I hadn't been sick that long.
如果我没有病那么久，我现在可能不会写一本书、两本书。
It's made me kind of fearless to have had it this long.
经历了这么久，我已经变得无所畏惧了。
And I just think, what's the worst that's going to happen if you do it?
我只是想，如果你这样做，最坏的结果是什么？
What's the worst that's going to happen if you let yourself believe that maybe you could stay alive?
如果你让自己相信也许你可以活下去，最糟糕的情况是什么？
You know, the answer was, nothing.
你知道，答案是，什么也没有。
We spoke a few weeks before January 15.
我们在 1 月 15 日之前几周进行了交谈。
It's a big day for her.
这对她来说是一个重要的日子。
Kathy's divorced.
凯西离婚了。
She and her ex-husband split up right before she got her initial diagnosis.
在她得到初步诊断结果之前，她和前夫就分手了。
But that date, the 15th, that used to be their wedding anniversary.
但那个日子，15号，曾经是他们的结婚纪念日。
And it was my parents' wedding anniversary and my grandparents' and my great-grandparents'.
那是我父母的结婚纪念日，也是我祖父母和曾祖父母的结婚纪念日。
So for a long time, that's what it was in my life.
所以很长一段时间，这就是我的生活。
When the cancer came back, I got the news on January 15.
当癌症复发时，我在 1 月 15 日得到了这个消息。
So it's a pretty loaded date in my life.
所以这是我生命中一次非常有意义的约会。
There's a great message board for advanced breast cancer patients on breastcancer.org.
Breastcancer.org 上有一个针对晚期乳腺癌患者的很棒的留言板。
And I've now started going on the message board and just saying on that date, I'm still here.
我现在开始在留言板上说，在那一天，我还在这里。
I'm alive, and I'm still here.
我还活着，而且我还在这里。
And I want the women on there to know that there are people out there who live with this, and live for a long time.
我希望那里的女性知道，有人忍受着这种情况，并且生活了很长一段时间。
So I write and I get like hundreds of responses back.
所以我写信后收到了数百条回复。
It's really difficult to do that every year knowing that most of the women aren't going to fall into that percentage.
知道大多数女性不会落入这个比例，每年都做到这一点确实很困难。
And I debated every year whether I'm doing the right thing.
我每年都会争论我做的事情是否正确。
Am I making people feel bad?
我是否让人们感觉不好？
I don't want anyone to think, oh well, she's living and I'm not.
我不想让任何人认为，哦，好吧，她还活着，而我却死了。
Just about a week ago there was a post under the name Kathy36 on the message boards of breastcancer.org.
大约一周前，breastcancer.org 的留言板上有一篇名为 Kathy36 的帖子。
Kathy36 said, I'm writing from India to say that as of today, I've been alive 18 years with stage IV.
Kathy36 说，我从印度写信是想告诉大家，截至今天，我已经第四期活了 18 年了。
If someone had told me then that I'd be in India, or anywhere 18 years down the road, I'd have thought they were deluded or being cruel.
如果当时有人告诉我我会去印度，或者 18 年后的任何地方，我会认为他们被欺骗了或者很残忍。
As I've mentioned before, there was no hope when I was re-diagnosed.
正如我之前提到的，当我被重新诊断时，我已经没有希望了。
And then, somehow there was.
然后，不知怎的，就出现了。
Just as cancer can take some unexpected bad turns, it can take some unexpectedly good ones too.
正如癌症可能会带来一些意想不到的坏转，它也可能会带来一些意想不到的好转。
This computer's going to go down any minute, so I'll end here.
这台电脑随时都会宕机，所以我就到此为止。
But not before saying, I wish everyone the most unexpected year in the best way.
但在此之前，我希望大家以最好的方式度过最意想不到的一年。
Much love, Kathy.
非常有爱，凯西。
Jonathan Menjivar is a producer for our show.
乔纳森·门吉瓦尔 (Jonathan Menjivar) 是我们节目的制片人。
Katherine Russell Rich's latest book is called Dreaming in Hindi .
凯瑟琳·拉塞尔·里奇的最新著作名为《印地语梦想》。
[MUSIC - "THIS YEAR" BY THE MOUNTAIN GOATS]
[音乐-山羊的“今年”]
Well, our program was produced today by Jonathan Menjivar, with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Jane Feltes, Sarah Koenig, Lisa Pollak, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, and Nancy Updike.
今天我们的节目由 Jonathan Menjivar 与 Alex Blumberg、Ben Calhoun、Jane Feltes、Sarah Koenig、Lisa Pollak、Robyn Semien、Alissa Shipp 和 Nancy Updike 共同制作。
Our senior producer is Julie Snyder.
我们的高级制片人是朱莉·斯奈德。
Seth Lind is our production manager.
塞思·林德 (Seth Lind) 是我们的生产经理。
Emily Condon's our office manager.
艾米丽·康登是我们的办公室经理。
Production help from Eric Mennel.
埃里克·门内尔 (Eric Mennel) 提供制作帮助。
[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS] This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International.
[致谢]《美国生活》由国际公共广播电台发行。
WBEZ management oversight for our show by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia.
我们的老板 Torey Malatia 先生对我们的演出进行 WBEZ 管理监督。
You know, he is definitely-- I feel so proud!
你知道，他绝对是——我感到非常自豪！
He is definitely learning the lessons that we hope to teach with our show each and every week.
他肯定正在学习我们希望每周在节目中教授的课程。
For example, during today's show, he actually dropped into the studio during one of the breaks in the show to say to me--
例如，在今天的节目中，他实际上在节目的一次休息时间到演播室对我说——
I kind of noticed you were kind of getting a little rounder around the middle.
我注意到你的中间有点圆了。
And we know what that means.
我们知道这意味着什么。
I'm Ira Glass.
我是艾拉·格拉斯。
Back next week with more stories of This American Life.
下周我们将带来更多《美国生活》的故事。
This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange.
《This American Life》与 WBEZ Chicago 合作制作，并由 PRX 公共广播电台传送到各电台。